[12:03] <sladen> so is for Linspire-warez type stuff;  or things (eg. Oracle) where you can probably get the program but have to pay to use it
[12:03] <sladen> a la, very expensive shareware
[12:07] <sivang> sladen: some of it is going to be distributed for free, although closed ;-)
[12:08] <sivang> (closed source, that is)
[12:09] <mdke> then commercial is _definitely_ the wrong word
[12:10] <pygi> mdke, lets rather argue what bug we are to fix next :)
[12:10] <sladen> sivang: in wish case multiverse would be correct?
[12:10] <mdke> pygi: I'm better at arguing about words than fixing bugs, sadly
[12:10] <mdke> unless you have any documentation bugs
[12:11] <pygi> documentation bugs are also nice :-P lets go hunt them down :P
[12:11] <sivang> sladen: I believe so, closely reselmbling stuff on restricted-modules
[12:11] <sivang> sladen: btw, oracle now have XE (express edition) which is also for free, but closed.
[12:15] <sladen> and which comes with Ubuntu instructions... 
[12:15] <tseng> are they working on certifying ubuntu/oracle?
[12:15] <_ion> I agree with mdke.
[12:15] <sladen> I guess the difference is possibly the level of support that will be available from Canonical for it
[12:15] <sladen> in which case it'll be needing to go somewhere other than *verse
[12:17] <sivang> sladen: indeed. many have already blogged about it even
[12:17] <dholbach> good night fellas
[12:18] <sivang> night dholbach 
[12:18] <dholbach> night sivang
[12:42] <_ion> Hi keybuk
[12:44] <Keybuk> heyhey
[12:46] <ajmitch> morning
[12:47] <wasabi__> Bah. Am I the only one SAD that Sun's Java is in Multiverse?
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> wasabi: not at all, your feelings are shared by some. :)
[12:49] <HiddenWolf> wasabi: just not those that prefer convenience over freedom. 
[12:49] <wasabi__> Naw. Even then.
[12:49] <wasabi__> Kaffe/GCJ/Classpath are quite good contenders for most of the "big" Java apps people keep requesting.
[12:49] <wasabi__> azureus, eclipse, etc.
[12:49] <wasabi__> tomcat.
[12:51] <HiddenWolf> wasabi: unfortuntunatly in this day and age, freedom is not highly valued
[12:51] <HiddenWolf> even in these circles
[12:51] <Burgwork> HiddenWolf, freedom is still valued. Ubuntu is not installing it by defaut
[12:53] <HiddenWolf> Burgwork: I had a user in -nl claiming that, well, ubuntu suited his taste, and it was fun, and easy and different, but he just couldn't care about this "free software" thing, nor understand why people might.
[12:53] <HiddenWolf> Burgwork: that sucked. :)
[12:54] <Burgwork> HiddenWolf, the great jdub has "they came for the quality and stayed for the freedom"
[12:54] <Burgwork> remember the long now
[12:56] <HiddenWolf> Burgwork: I sure hope so. :)
[12:56] <sivang> hey Keybuk , also in Mexico ?
[12:57] <Keybuk> sivang: nope
[12:57] <sivang> ah, then just switched your day and night times? :)
[12:57] <Keybuk> my day/night times are variable at the best of times
[12:58] <lifeless> there gmt, and zulu, and keybuk
[12:59] <sivang> lifeless: lol
[01:03] <Keybuk> hmm
[01:03] <Keybuk> I need chocolate and ice cream
[01:12] <sivang> anyway, it's way after my bed time here.
[01:12] <sivang> laters
[01:48] <wasabi__> Anybody still interesting in an ARM port?
[02:08] <wftl> Hello all. Can anyone confirm (or deny) whether xchat is part of Dapper?
[02:09] <wftl> It was there, now it's not, and my latest update seems to have reinstalled it.
[02:09] <crimsun> xchat-gnome is in main; xchat is in universe
[02:09] <Keybuk>      xchat | 2.6.1-0ubuntu2 | dapper/universe | source, amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[02:10] <FunnyLookinHat> all I know is that dapper tried to install some pice of crap gnome-xchat or something
[02:10] <Keybuk> xchat-gnome | 0.11-0ubuntu5 |        dapper | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[02:10] <FunnyLookinHat> xchat-gnome is the sux0r.
[02:10] <wftl> Well, I guess that answers that [ insert appropriate smiley here ] 
[02:10] <Keybuk> lamont: xchat-gnome hasn't built on hppa :p
[02:10] <wftl> Thanks, all.
[02:11] <lamont> Keybuk: but did it fail, or just not get there yet?
[02:11] <Keybuk> chroot fuckage
[02:11] <Keybuk> Errors were encountered while processing:
[02:11] <Keybuk>  /home/buildd/build-194542-91420/chroot-autobuild/var/cache/apt/archives/x11-common_7.0.0-0ubuntu43_hppa.deb
[02:11] <Keybuk> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[02:11] <Keybuk> dpkg: error processing /home/buildd/build-194542-91420/chroot-autobuild/var/cache/apt/archives/x11-common_7.0.0-0ubuntu43_hppa.deb (--unpack):
[02:11] <Keybuk>  subprocess pre-installation script killed by signal (Segmentation fault)
[02:29] <lifeless> score
[02:31] <lamont> Keybuk: yeah - said buildd needs to be whacked upside the head... will poke infinity
[02:34] <jcole> are all arches now available on the primary mirrors?
[02:35] <Riddell> Kamion: kde ubiquity good to merge when you can
[02:36] <lamont> jcole: no
[02:36] <lamont> well, depending on what you mean by that questions
[02:36] <lamont> s/s$//
[02:57] <bddebian> Howdy
[02:57] <zul> hey
[02:57] <bddebian> Heya zul
[02:57] <bddebian> Thanks for uploading that
[02:59] <zul> no probs
[03:30] <jcole> man, this is weird
[03:31] <jcole> i sat here and watched this damn thing netinstall an entire ubuntu, now it's removing everything it just installed... wtf?
[03:31] <jcole> removing file-roller, removing gedit, etc.
[03:32] <jcole> ---> http://jcole.org/removing.png
[03:33] <jcole> netinstall
[04:56] <whiprush> jdub: ping
[04:57] <jsgotangco> whiprush: !
[04:57] <whiprush> hi jerome
[04:58] <jsgotangco> what's up dude? i just watch the pistons get creamed
[04:58] <jsgotangco> s/watch/watched
[04:58] <whiprush> harsh
[04:58] <whiprush> jsgotangco: how are things in your hemisphere? bringing the wealth of ubuntu as usual?
[04:59] <jsgotangco> ive been busy at work, but preparing as part of the organizers for a local conference as well in august
[05:00] <jsgotangco> i'll be at paris too if things go as planned
[05:00] <whiprush> I think the ubuntu release party/flickr thing this year will be totally bomb.
[05:00] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco, whiprush 
[05:01] <whiprush> hey aj
[05:01] <jsgotangco> hey ajmitch 
[05:02] <bddebian> bomb as in "da bomb" or bomb as in "bombed in the box office" :-)
[05:02] <whiprush> da bomb dude.
[05:02] <bddebian> :-)
[05:02] <whiprush> always da bomb.
[05:06] <whiprush> jsgotangco: I am making the dapperreleaseparty page now.
[05:06] <whiprush> time to light this candle.
[05:12] <bddebian> SHouldn't that be "time to light this fuse" ;-)
[05:19] <whiprush> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseParty
[05:19] <whiprush> there we go guys.
[05:23] <jsgotangco> woo hooo
[05:25] <jsgotangco> whiprush: dupe, there's DapperReleaseParties page too
[05:28] <whiprush> jsgotangco: ouch, how out of touch I am.
[08:11] <pitti> Good morning
[08:12] <jsgotangco> good morning pitti 
[08:12] <Keybuk> morning
[08:13] <pygi> mornin'
[08:13] <ajmitch> hi
[08:15] <pitti> hi jsgotangco, moin Keybuk 
[08:15] <pitti> ajmitch: hello!
[08:43] <siretart> morning
[08:43] <siretart> pitti: ping
[08:44] <pitti> hey siretart
[08:44] <siretart> huhu pitti 
[08:44] <siretart> pitti: could you please have a short look at http://librarian.launchpad.net/2652545/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.fai-kernels_1.10.3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[08:44] <siretart> pitti: it ftbfs because of a strange error of pkgstriptranslations
[08:45] <siretart> I have no clue what it is talking about: pkgstriptranslations: inconsistent /CurrentlyBuilding file, Package: value is fai-kernels (should be kernel-source-2.6.15.6-ubuntu1-fai-kernels)
[08:46] <pitti> ouch, that sounds like a buildd bug
[08:46] <siretart> to whom should I talk about this problem?
[08:46] <pitti> siretart: erm, wait - the real source package name is fai-kernels?
[08:47] <siretart> yes
[08:47] <pitti> siretart: does it build a source package within a source package? I. e. tries to call dpkg-buildpackage within the build process?
[08:47] <siretart> pitti: yes. it distributes a binary package made with make-kpkg in the binary package
[08:48] <pitti> siretart: ah, that explains it
[08:48] <siretart> that's what the build is basically doing
[08:48] <pitti> siretart: please do 'export NO_PKG_MANGLE=1' before building sub-packages
[08:48] <dholbach> good morning
[08:48] <siretart> pitti: at the top of debian/rules, I assume?
[08:48] <siretart> morning dholbach!
[08:48] <pygi> mornin' dholbach 
[08:49] <infinity> siretart: Not for the whole package, only for the sub-package build.
[08:49] <pitti> siretart: well, preferably just for the sub-build
[08:49] <pitti> hi infinity 
[08:49] <infinity> siretart: (Though, if your package has no translations anyway, it probably doesn't make a difference)
[08:50] <siretart> infinity: the sub package build is started via make-kpkg!
[08:50] <infinity> siretart: So, "NO_PKG_MANGLE=1 make-kpkg blah blah"
[08:50] <siretart>         make-kpkg --rootcmd fakeroot --append-to-version -fai-kernels --revision $(REVISION) kernel-image
[08:50] <pitti> infinity: it might make one once pkgmangler also does Maintainer field tricks, right?
[08:50] <siretart> allright. will do
[08:50] <siretart> what part of the build gets influenced by NO_PKG_MANGLE
[08:50] <dholbach> hey siretart, hey pygi
[08:50] <siretart> and why doesn't this happen on my local machine?
[08:51] <sivang> morning all
[08:51] <infinity> pitti: True, though I expect I'll want to make the "search for debian/changelog" a bit more robust so we can mangle the maintainer field in sub-packages too..
[08:51] <infinity> pitti: Especially for cases like this one.
[08:51] <pitti> siretart: you don't have pkgstriptranslations installed
[08:51] <pitti> siretart: and you don't have the buildd black magic with the /CurrentlyBuilding file
[08:52] <siretart> ok. so like I assumed: there IS black magic going on there.. :)
[08:52] <infinity> It's not so much black magic as "oh god, get it off me, eww" hackery.
[08:53] <siretart> aah, and this NO_PKG_MANGLE shortcircuts pkgstripstramslations for the inner build, no?
[08:53] <infinity> Right.
[08:53] <infinity> name "NO_PKG_MANGLE" instead of "NO_PKG_STRIP" for the eventual case where we expect this thing to do more mangling.
[08:53] <infinity> Though, perhaps we might want one variable for each, now that I think about it.
[08:53] <infinity> Feh.
[08:54] <infinity> Hacks upon hacks make the baby jesus cry.
[08:54] <siretart> :)
[08:54] <dholbach> hey infinity
[08:55] <infinity> Bonjour, Monsieur Holbach.
[08:56] <infinity> pitti: Any urge to take a quick look at bug #44267 for me?
[08:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44267 in evms "Can't create EVMS volumes with 'n' in the name" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44267
[08:57] <pitti> wow, that looks funny
[08:57] <pitti> not that I *ever* had used evms...
[08:57] <dholbach> infinity: Comment a va?
[08:57] <infinity> pitti: No, but you applied the evil GTK2 patch, which may be the cause here (different hotkey handling, maybe?)
[08:58] <infinity> dholbach: Comme ci, comme ca.  Vous?
[08:58] <pitti> ah, right
[08:58] <pitti> infinity: well, since we're stuck with gtk1.2 in main anyway, I can as well revert it
[08:59] <pitti> (seems like the safest option right now?)
[08:59] <dholbach> infinity: Merci beaucoup, a va bien, je suis un peut fatigu
[09:01] <robitaille> it's nice to see some french around here :)
[09:01] <infinity> pitti: Assuming that's the cause of the bug, yeah.  I didn't investigate it much, was just going through evms bugs as part my initramfs triage.
[09:01] <dholbach> robitaille: #ubuntu-desktop replaced #ubuntuf-fr
[09:01] <dholbach> robitaille: :-p
[09:02] <Mithrandir> robitaille: I should just start speaking norwegian in here and hope people'll understand too, I guess.
[09:02] <dholbach> Mithrandir: fire away! :)
[09:03] <Mithrandir> pitti: I can give it a shot, if you'd like.
[09:03] <Mithrandir> dholbach: ok, da begynner jeg  snakke norsk. :-)
[09:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: that'd be nice! I'm just trying to reproduce it
[09:03] <dholbach> Mithrandir: Mach ruhig weiter - ich glaub ich versteh etwas. :-p
[09:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: for me it stops at the 'c', but same effect
[09:04] <Mithrandir> dholbach: jeg forstr tysk snn halvgreit, s det gr fint. :-)
[09:04] <dholbach> Ok, I stop understanding :-)
[09:04] <Mithrandir> dholbach: "I understand German decent-ish, so that's ok". :-)
[09:04] <dholbach> haha :)
[09:05] <infinity> There's a norsk word for "decent-ish"? :)
[09:05] <Mithrandir> infinity: half-decent, actually, but yes.
[09:06] <Keybuk> dholbach: bore da, shwd ych chi bore 'ma?
[09:06] <pitti> infinity: shall I care for the tbird 1.5.0.2 update?
[09:06] <Mithrandir> infinity: we tend to just slam words together to make new words.
[09:06] <infinity> pitti: I've half rescued it from my old drive.  It seems mostly good to go.
[09:06] <infinity> pitti: I just want to fix up the branding before Thursday, s'all.
[09:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok, evms bug reproduced.
[09:06] <pitti> infinity: oh, cool
[09:07] <infinity> pitti: (And am prioritising rescuing/rewriting initramfs changes first, so mdz doesn't kill me)
[09:07] <infinity> I don't like death.
[09:07] <pitti> understandable :)
[09:07] <Keybuk> infinity: yeah, whatever happened to that? :p
[09:11] <hendry> i just installed kubuntu from scratch and the time/date is wrong
[09:11] <hendry> i chose the correct timezone
[09:15] <infinity> hendry: Hardware clock in localtime instead of UTC?
[09:16] <infinity> hendry: I think Kamion just uploaded some fixes for that.
[09:19] <Keybuk> mdz: you're not supposed to come onto IRC drunk
[09:19] <pitti> hi mdz 
[09:19] <desrt> Keybuk; interesting usplash release....
[09:19] <mdz> Keybuk: my client automatically reconnects when I get near a network
[09:19] <Keybuk> desrt: which one?  I didn't do anything interesting
[09:20] <Keybuk> I just put the image back to the old one until we get a better new one
[09:20] <desrt> refering mostly to the rationale behind the release
[09:20] <Keybuk> oh, heh, I was grumpy :0
[09:20] <desrt> :)
[09:20] <Keybuk> you try spending an entire weekend explaining that "640x400 in 4:3 aspect ratio" does not mean "do it in 640x480 then rescale it"
[09:21] <desrt> where's his proposed screen?
[09:21] <hendry> infinity: `hwclock` reads 01:20 KST
[09:21] <Keybuk> we don't have on at the moment
[09:21] <desrt> ah.  it sounded like he sent you one
[09:22] <hendry> infinity: which is wrong. wrong for utc and locatime
[09:22] <Keybuk> oh, I got several in my inbox, they're all ... unsuitable
[09:22] <desrt> what's the deal with the text thing anyway?
[09:22] <Keybuk> "text thing" ?
[09:22] <desrt> why is it that it absolutely must stay for dapper?
[09:23] <desrt> (i was trying to defend this point to a friend, but realised that i don't really have any solid reasons to defend it)
[09:23] <Keybuk> because we rely on it being there for a few things
[09:23] <Keybuk> e.g. "you can now eject the live cd" :p
[09:23] <infinity> desrt: At this point, there's no point in defending it at all, except to say "that's the way it is, we're hard freezing in 2 days for release candidates, cope"
[09:23] <desrt> 2 days holy crap
[09:23] <infinity> desrt: Yes, we could run around changing things that rely on it as-is, but we have real bugs to fix.
[09:24] <Keybuk> I thought it was 3 days
[09:24] <desrt> "we have real bugs to fix" is a very valid excuse at this point in the release
[09:24] <infinity> Keybuk: Depends on your timezone.
[09:24] <Keybuk> infinity: fair point
[09:24] <Keybuk> though I wouldn't like to hazard a guess with my timezone
[09:25] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: hmm?  Casper displays that message on a text console if you don't run usplash.
[09:25] <ivoks> pitti: would it be to late to create mozilla-firefox-locale-hr?
[09:25] <pitti> ivoks: no, if you have a working xpi, I can add it
[09:25] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: right, the proposal is to run usplash and comment out the text code though
[09:25] <ivoks> pitti: ok, thanx
[09:25] <pitti> ivoks: oh dear, I *just* uploaded a new orig.tar.gz for m-f-locale-all :/
[09:25] <infinity> Mithrandir: Right, but it doesn't magically display it if you're running a usplash with no text output. :)
[09:25] <Keybuk> so casper would be displaying the message on a console hidden by a usplash that's just displaying pretty graphics
[09:25] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: oh, that'll break spectacularly.
[09:25] <ivoks> pitti: i saw :)
[09:27] <Keybuk>  Source and binary promotions to main
[09:27] <Keybuk>  ------------------------------------
[09:27] <Keybuk>  o bzr: bzr
[09:27] <Keybuk>    [Reverse-Depends: Dapper ship seed] 
[09:27] <Keybuk> heh
[09:27] <pitti> finally :)
[09:27] <pitti> oh, in ship?
[09:27] <desrt> Keybuk; do you vendorpatch vim _at all_?
[09:27] <Keybuk> desrt: do I personally?
[09:27] <desrt> for ubuntu
[09:27] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: do we need one?
[09:27] <infinity> I suspect it's quite heavily patched.
[09:28] <Keybuk> I wouldn't like to hazard a guess about Ubuntu, except "probably"
[09:28] <Keybuk> it's got like 1,000 patches in its source tree
[09:28] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: *shrug* dunno
[09:28] <Keybuk> mdz: do we? :p
[09:28] <desrt> oh.  i though you packaged it
[09:28] <desrt> nm
[09:28] <Keybuk> desrt: I'm an emacs man!
[09:28] <pitti> it's a pretty pathologic case - in-house project and we all use it anyway  
[09:28] <desrt> uh.  you're guilty :p
[09:28] <desrt> source is last-changed by you and you own the launchpad product :p
[09:29] <infinity> desrt: Yes, vim is heavily patched.
[09:29] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~/vim/vim-6.4$ ls -1 patches/ | wc -l
[09:29] <infinity> 54
[09:29] <Keybuk> desrt: I own lots of launchpad products by virtue that I was once in the team that registered products in launchpad
[09:29] <Mithrandir> most of the vim patches are grabbed from upstream, iirc.
[09:29] <desrt> here's a nice new patch https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vim/+bug/44431
[09:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44431 in vim "vim autoindent + :set bs=0 + ctrl+u is broken" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[09:31] <Keybuk> Kamion: what do you think?  do we need an MIR for bzr, bzrtools, celementtree, paramiko ?
[09:33] <pitti> Keybuk: I just think this stuff does not really belong into ship...
[09:33] <Mithrandir> pitti: where would you put it, then?
[09:33] <pitti> well, supported
[09:33] <pitti> but putting it onto the CDs would just be a waste of space...
[09:33] <infinity> Will it blow out the CDs that much if it's in ship?
[09:33] <Mithrandir> pitti: If I were to argue, I'd say desktop since we want to ship a development environment in -desktop already.
[09:34] <pitti> Mithrandir: we don't, we don't even have gcc
[09:34] <Mithrandir> we have python-* though
[09:34] <Mithrandir> (and bzr is more useful than, say, bicyclerepair
[09:34] <infinity> pitti: We ship a python devel environment.  Have you not been here for the last 300 flamewars? :)
[09:34] <Mithrandir> )
[09:34] <pygi> :-P
[09:34] <pitti> infinity: we ship python modules, but does that already count as DE?
[09:35] <infinity> pitti: It does when nothing depends on them.
[09:35] <infinity> pitti: We're clearly shipping them so people can program against them, not because anything in -desktop needs them.
[09:37] <pitti> ok, it would add less than 1 MB, but still...
[09:37] <Keybuk> nobody proposed bzrk
[09:44] <janimo> seb128: hi, are you planning evince 0.5.3 for dapper?
[09:44] <seb128> janimo: I didn't even know there was a 0.5.3
[09:44] <seb128> janimo: I'm just starting working, didn't read my mails from the night yet
[09:45] <desrt> if anyone cares to ack my vim patch i'd be happy to roll the new version of the package....
[09:45] <dholbach> Keybuk: does it work again?
[09:45] <Keybuk> dholbach: apparently
[09:45] <dholbach> ROCK ON
[09:45] <janimo> seb128: ok, so there is a release :). If you plan it for dapper I'll update the gtk patch too, that's why I asked
[09:45] <seb128> janimo: I'll upload if that's a GNOME 2.14.n material
[09:46] <seb128> janimo: GNOME 2.15.2 due this week so will need to check what they did
[09:46] <Keybuk> dholbach: hug ddaa, not me
[09:46] <Keybuk> he maintains it these days
[09:46] <janimo> seb128: don;t know what evince's relationship with gnome 2.14
[09:46] <dholbach> ah, I didn't know
[09:46] <janimo> they dep on gtk 2.8 now 
[09:46] <janimo> seb128: anyway I'll just wait and see what you do
[09:46] <seb128> janimo: that is not an issue
[09:47] <desrt> bedtime.  nite everyone.
[09:48] <seb128> desrt: I just uploaded a new ubuntulooks, number of dots for panel grip has been set to 6
[09:48] <seb128> desrt: 'night
[09:48] <desrt> seb128; oo.  sexy :)
[09:49] <pygi> seb128, I'll need to talk to you later about google calendar Evo plugin
[09:49] <seb128> pygi: if you want
[09:49] <seb128> janimo: looks GNOME 2.15 material that evince
[09:49] <janimo> seb128: ok then
[09:49] <seb128> janimo: "    * GOption port and po/LINGUAS work" that might require intltool 0.35 for po/LINGUAS work
[09:51] <dholbach> might be the same for gnome-mag
[09:51] <Keybuk> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0605/iss2_sts114_big.jpg
[09:51] <Keybuk> ^ that is damned pretty
[09:51] <seb128> dholbach: if you do an update make sure than .po are shipped and .mo installed
[09:52] <dholbach> seb128: yep
[09:52] <janimo> seb128: configure: error: Your intltool is too old.  You need intltool 0.35.0 or later. You're right ;)
[09:53] <dholbach> seb128: looks good.
[09:56] <Treenaks> Keybuk: 'gloomy outlook: the revenge'?
[09:56] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok, evms bug fixed and uploaded.
[09:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: rock!
[09:57] <Mithrandir> pitti: not putting GDK_MOD1_MASK when adding accellerators is a bad idea. :-P
[09:57] <pitti> lol
[09:57] <pitti> Mithrandir: that was a bug in the gtk2 patch?
[09:57] <Mithrandir> yup
[09:57] <Mithrandir> http://err.no/patches/evms_gtk2_dont_grab_random_keys.diff is the patch
[09:58] <Mithrandir> also, s/accellerator/accelerator/
[10:01] <dholbach> TheMuso: gnome-mag is still not happy with xtest/xdamage/xfixes on nvidia (orwherever the problem is)
[10:02] <TheMuso> dholbach: Right. I haven't tried it again recently.
[10:02] <dholbach> TheMuso: seems like stuff for edgy to explore :)
[10:02] <TheMuso> And as I don't have any nvidia hardware, it makes it a little difficult for me to try and reproduce.
[10:02] <dholbach> I was able to reproduce on ati as well.
[10:02] <Keybuk> dholbach: gnome-mag not installed by default?
[10:02] <TheMuso> dholbach: Well there is the new magnifier being discussed on ubuntu-accessibility@
[10:02] <TheMuso> hmmm.
[10:03] <TheMuso> I must try it again.
[10:03] <dholbach> Keybuk: It is, it's just not in the menu.
[10:03] <TheMuso> Keybuk: gnome-mag is supposed to work with XDamage/XFixes libraries for smoother rendering, but dholbach seems to have problems using it with them enabled.
[10:03] <dholbach> Keybuk: you can enable it in gnome-at-properties
[10:04] <Keybuk> dholbach: I couldn't find a binary by pressing tab :)
[10:04] <dholbach> Keybuk: /usr/bin/magnifier :)
[10:04] <Keybuk> that just sits there doing nothing
[10:04] <dholbach> you might have to restart session with a11y enabled
[10:04] <TheMuso> Magnifier is a back-end for other front-end apps, like gnopernicus.
[10:05] <Keybuk> meh
[10:05] <Keybuk> will play with that later then
[10:05] <Keybuk> even if just to confirm it doesn't work on nvidia
[10:06] <dholbach> Keybuk: I didn't enable the xtest/xdamage/xfixes stuff in the current build because of that brekage
[10:07] <Keybuk> infinity is going to break nvidia anyway
[10:07] <Keybuk> if he gets around to it ;)
[10:07] <infinity> Hey now.
[10:07] <infinity> I don't plan to break anything.
[10:08] <thom> you never /plan/ to, mate ;-)
[10:08] <Keybuk> Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar. 
[10:08] <infinity> Keybuk: Pot, kettle.
[10:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: I don't think bzr really needs one (since it's Canonical-produced software), but I'd like pitti to look over bzrtools, celementtree, paramiko for sanity
[10:09] <Keybuk> pitti: could you look over those, then
[10:09] <pitti> yep, added to my todo list
[10:09] <TheMuso> dholbach: I am going to rebuild with the patch included and see what happens on the 4 machines I have here... Three are ATI, one is a matrox.
[10:09] <dholbach> TheMuso: ok, uploaded gnome-mag 0.12.5
[10:10] <TheMuso> dholbach: You're a champ. Thanks heaps.
[10:10] <dholbach> TheMuso: thanks  :-)
[10:10] <dholbach> TheMuso: let's see how orca works with it
[10:21] <mdke> presumably it's known that getting an ip address with dhcp isn't updating /etc/resolv.conf? I've just realised that this is the cause of all my problems
[10:21] <infinity> mdke: It does for me..
[10:21] <infinity> mdke: Do you have the (vile) "resolvconf" package installed?
[10:22] <mdke> infinity: it's marked as "un"
[10:22] <Keybuk> I'm so going to change the resolvconf description to "Install this package to break your computer"
[10:22] <mdke> i talked my brother through dist-upgrading to dapper from a default breezy install over the phone, and he had this problem
[10:22] <mdke> and I just noticed it on my computer this morning
[10:23] <Keybuk> infinity: dhclient's resolv.conf handling is ultra-brittle
[10:23] <Keybuk> being done in a complicated shell script that's a conffile
[10:23] <Keybuk> for example
[10:23] <mdke> do you want a bug report?
[10:23] <infinity> Oh, POSIX, why do you mock me?
[10:26] <JaneW> JaneW SoC mentors: I will try to mail later (but our mail is down again here...) please can you look at finalising the application review, ranking and make your selections for mentoring by COB tomorrow (wed 17 May).
[10:27] <ajmitch> JaneW: a few hundred applications for you to read through? :)
[10:28] <JaneW> ajmitch: 240 or so...
[10:28] <ajmitch> not so bad
[10:28] <pygi> ajmitch, I've done that already :P 3 times :)
[10:28] <JaneW> ajmitch: this year the mentors get to make the selections :P
[10:28] <ajmitch> wonderful 
[10:29] <JaneW> Mentors: see this ML thread for more info on timings and selection requirements http://groups.google.com/group/Summer-Administrators-2006/browse_frm/thread/74d7f5262a3cb013/05d64e764e7872a1#05d64e764e7872a1
[10:29] <jsgotangco> ack
[10:29] <mdke> infinity: are you *sure* it's updating resolv.conf? you don't just have your old one?
[10:29] <jsgotangco> heh great im not on the list
[10:30] <infinity> mdke: I can verfiy that pretty quickly.
[10:30] <mdke> infinity: thanks
[10:30] <ajmitch> infinity: have you got the results of the universe autobuild test you did?
[10:31] <infinity> ajmitch: Will you be around for a few hours to bug me again?
[10:31] <ajmitch> yep
[10:31] <pygi> pitti, poke?
[10:31] <infinity> mdke: Confirmed, it's updating just fine.
[10:32] <pitti> pygi: *eek*
[10:32] <pygi> pitti, does your pmount works on bsd systems as well? I am interested in using that for Gnomebaker
[10:32] <mdke> infinity: so what can I do to help with my problem? as I say, i saw it on a new dist-upgrade yesterday
[10:33] <infinity> mdke: You can bug pitti incessantly about it, since he LOVES the dhcp3 package!
[10:34] <infinity> pitti: Isn't that right? :)
[10:35] <sivang> oh, the right excuse :p
[10:36] <pitti> re
[10:36] <pitti> pygi: so, pmount-hal needs hal, obviously
[10:37] <pitti> pygi: if you don't use pmount-hal, just pmount, then you still need a /sys directory, which probably doesn't exist in BSD
[10:37] <pygi> well, ok, if I have hal :)
[10:37] <pitti> mdke: hm?
[10:38] <pitti> infinity: go away
[10:38] <infinity> :)
[10:39] <infinity> mdke: You should probably file a bug.  The contents of /etc/dhcp3/{dhclient.conf,dhclient-script} may be helpful, as well as "ls -l /etc/resolv.conf"
[10:39] <mdke> pitti: i'll file a bug, no worries
[10:39] <mdke> infinity: thanks
[10:39] <infinity> mdke: Not sure what else, really.
[10:40] <pitti> mdke: I'm sub'ed to dhcp3, I'll see it
[10:40] <mdke> pitti: i bet you have one already, lemme look
[10:41] <infinity> mdke: Lots of bugs have come and gone relating to resolv.conf breakage.  I wouldn't assume yours is a duplicate unless someone describes the EXACT problem (ie: with enough detail for you to solve it too)
[10:41] <mdke> alright, I'll file a separate one
[10:41] <mdke> :)
[10:45] <mdke> ah shit
[10:45] <mdke> I can't reproduce it from the console, looks like it might be gst
[10:47] <mdke> meh, /me goes to investigate a bit better
[10:47] <infinity> I WIN!
[10:47] <infinity> (Okay, I'll shut up now)
[10:48] <pygi> infinity, what you won this time? :P
[10:48] <infinity> pygi: A raging and epic battle with jbailey's shell. :)
[10:49] <pygi> infinity, o joy :)
[10:49] <Treenaks> infinity: Stories will be told of this for centuries to come!
[10:49] <Keybuk> rofl
[10:49] <Keybuk> leave jbailey's shell alone
[10:49] <Keybuk> it's lovely
[10:49] <Keybuk> if you hold it up to your ear, you can hear the sweet sounds of POSIX coming out
[10:49] <infinity> It is rather, actually.
[10:50] <infinity> But when you're hacking at a particularly twisty bit you've never read before, sometimes your eyes bleed just a little.
[10:50] <infinity> At least it's not his make. ;)
[10:50] <Keybuk> that's shell for you
[10:50] <Keybuk> does make really run "sh -c ..." for every single line?
[10:51] <infinity> What else would it do?
[10:51] <Keybuk> dunno
[10:51] <Keybuk> that just seems inefficient
[10:51] <infinity> Well, it runs $(SHELL) -c, but yeah.
[10:52] <infinity> Or is it $(SH)?... Whatever.  The one that it runs is what it runs! :)
[10:53] <Mithrandir> it's SHELL
[10:53] <infinity> I suppose if shell startup time were so horrible that people cared, they'd implement some crazy shelld or something.
[10:53] <Kamion> Keybuk: no, it doesn't
[10:53] <zakame> hi all
[10:53] <Keybuk> Kamion: what does it do?
[10:53] <infinity> Kamion: Then it's magic? :)
[10:54] <Kamion> if the command is "sufficiently simple" then it invokes it directly
[10:54] <infinity> So, no shell expansion, and no builtins?
[10:54] <infinity> Or something equally strange?
[10:54] <Kamion> I'm pretty sure this is true anyway - let me dig up the reference
[10:55] <infinity> That seems rather error-prone, unless someone stays on top of what should and shouldn't be passed to a real shell.
[10:55] <Keybuk> 10012 pts/6    S+     0:00      \_ make test
[10:55] <infinity> (Since you expect every line to end up passed to SHELL)
[10:55] <Keybuk> 10013 pts/6    R+     0:00          \_ ps fax
[10:55] <Keybuk> no interim there
[10:55] <Mithrandir> infinity: builtins should work just the same as the real commands, shan't they?
[10:55] <Keybuk> 10033 pts/6    S+     0:00      \_ make test
[10:55] <Keybuk> 10034 pts/6    S+     0:00          \_ /bin/sh -c true && ps `echo fax`
[10:55] <Keybuk> 10036 pts/6    R+     0:00              \_ ps fax
[10:55] <Keybuk> heh
[10:55] <Keybuk> Kamion appears to be correct
[10:56] <infinity> Mithrandir: Well, in theory, but if you want the "real thing", you would generally use a path, if you want the builtin, you don't use a path and expect SHELL to do it for you.
[10:56] <infinity> But, I suppose in the case of a makefile that point is more or less moot.
[10:57] <infinity> You wouldn't pull the same shell tricks in make that you would in shell itself.  I hope.
[10:57] <infinity> (Not when you have make tricks instead!)
[10:57] <Mithrandir> infinity: unless you're jbailey? :-)
[10:57] <infinity> No, jbailey's make is very shell-free, for the most part.
[10:57] <Keybuk> I wonder what's more evil
[10:57] <infinity> That's why people who don't know make find it unreadable.
[10:57] <Keybuk> sh -c "many lines of shell"
[10:57] <Keybuk> or
[10:57] <Keybuk> sh /dev/fd/X ... and write the lines one by one
[10:57] <infinity> (Compare to, say, the apache2 debian/rules, which is just a shell script cleverly disguised asa makefile)
[10:57] <Kamion> When it is time to execute commands to update a target, they are
[10:57] <Kamion> executed by invoking a new subshell for each command line.  (In
[10:57] <Kamion> practice, `make' may take shortcuts that do not affect the results.)
[10:58] <Kamion> that's the only hint I've found in 'info make' so far
[10:58] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: sh <<EOF is nice, IMO.
[10:58] <Kamion> I'm sure I read about it in some documentation a while back though
[10:58] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: isn't "<<EOF" parsed by a shell? :p
[10:58] <Kamion> I believe if you have metacharacters in there then make will give up and punt to a shell
[10:59] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: oh, you were wondering about more evil.  I answered the "less evil" part.
[10:59] <Keybuk> just mulling possibilities from a C exec() POV... if you have some shell you want run
[10:59] <Keybuk> is it better to pass it in with -c, or to play /dev/fd tricks
[11:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34126 in xkeyboard-config "Ctrl-Alt expected to work like AltGr?" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34126
[11:00] <Kamion> I prefer -c to avoid the extra file descriptor
[11:00] <Keybuk> Kamion: though that way you could end up with a few hundred lines of shell in ps output
[11:02] <sivang> Mithrandir: we support IA64 fully , right?
[11:02] <pitti> carlos: hi! btw, fully automatic langpack generation with latest tarball worked just fine yesterday :)
[11:02] <Mithrandir> sivang: no, it's a port, not a core arch.
[11:02] <Mithrandir> (or whatever the term is)
[11:02] <carlos> pitti: cool
[11:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: SCC? (Second class citizen)
[11:04] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks.
[11:04] <infinity> Oh, neat.  One of my bugfixes has the cute side-effect of making mkinitramfs no longer complain about "circular dependencies" based on moon phase, but rather only when one actually exists.
[11:04] <infinity> Bugfixes for free, for the win.
[11:04] <infinity> pitti: We use "port", not "SCC". :)
[11:05] <infinity> pitti: We frown on "SCC", cause it's not terribly friendly, apparently.
[11:05] <Keybuk> "SPECIAL ARCHITECTURE"
[11:05] <pitti> infinity: speaking of 'treated with less care': did you see the failed quagga build on hppa for breezy-security?
[11:06] <pitti> infinity: it fails with 'epstopdf: command not found', very strange...
[11:06] <Keybuk> pitti: probably needs "Depends: tetex-bin" ? :p;
[11:06] <infinity> Erm, yeah.  I just got there.
[11:07] <Keybuk> uh, Build-Depends
[11:07] <infinity> That makes no sense, given that it builds on the other arches...
[11:07] <pitti> Keybuk: that's already there
[11:07] <Keybuk> magic document regenerating
[11:07] <Keybuk> oh, yeah, it is
[11:07] <infinity> Oh, feh.
[11:07] <Keybuk> the hppa chroot was broken earlier
[11:07] <Keybuk> cf. xchat-gnome not being built
[11:07] <infinity> pitti: That chroot appears to be dirty.  I'm betting a previous build exploded it.
[11:07] <infinity> Keybuk: Different chroot, different buildd, different network. :)
[11:08] <infinity> Keybuk: xchat-gnome wasn't chroot breakage, it was kernel breakage causing package removal to go south.
[11:08] <Keybuk> bah :p
[11:08] <infinity> Keybuk: But chroots in the LP world are rm -rf'd after builds.
[11:08] <infinity> pitti: Let me poke castilla with a stick and see what's up with that chroot.
[11:08] <pitti> infinity: do they actually get rm-rf'ed? or is there something more efficient like unionfs?
[11:08] <infinity> pitti: The fact that tetex-bin was already in the chroot is a bit red flashing warning that something's wrong. :)
[11:08] <Keybuk> pitti: tar xf, chroot, rm -rf
[11:09] <infinity> pitti: They actually get rm -rf'd... Who needs efficiency when we have horsepower?
[11:09] <Chipzz> infinity: heh
[11:09] <Keybuk> (believe it or not, I actually knew that, I just forgot)
[11:09] <pitti> right, hard disks are indestructible anyway
[11:09] <Chipzz> infinity: and what about disk wear?
[11:09] <infinity> Chipzz: Disks are cheap.
[11:09] <infinity> Chipzz: Very.
[11:09] <Keybuk> sysadmins are easily bored
[11:09] <Chipzz> you still need to actually go there and replace them
[11:09] <Keybuk> if they don't have things to do, they get destructive
[11:09] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: they're still very cheap.
[11:09] <Kamion> Chipzz: we know.
[11:10] <infinity> Chipzz: unionfs, on the other hand, is SKETCHY AS FUCK.
[11:10] <infinity> So, y'know.  I'll take broken disks.
[11:10] <Mithrandir> infinity: unionfs is 
[11:10] <Keybuk> yeah, bit of luck we're not relying on unionfs for anything critical
[11:10] <Keybuk> like the cds we'll be shipping
[11:10] <Kamion> LIKE OUR INSTALLER
[11:10] <infinity> Keybuk: Shh. :)
[11:10] <infinity> Mithrandir: Whatever character that was, my terminal didn't like it.
[11:10] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: don't upset the live cds.
[11:10] <Mithrandir> infinity: U+2764 HEAVY BLACK HEART
[11:10] <infinity> Mithrandir: If it's the inicode character for a pile of poo, I agree.
[11:11] <infinity> s/inicode/unicode/
[11:11] <pitti> it's rendered quite nicely here
[11:11] <pitti> so at least the fonts should be there
[11:11] <Keybuk> 
[11:11] <infinity> pitti: I'm running irssi on a woody machine.  I suspect that's causing some issues. :)
[11:11] <Keybuk> that's the unicode character for poo
[11:11] <Keybuk> well, U+1434 CANADIAN SYLLABICS POO
[11:12] <pitti> that's just a '1434' with a box around
[11:12] <infinity> Canadian poo, no less.
[11:12] <Keybuk> pitti: aww, you mean you can't see the cute Unicode Stargate symbol (  ) either? :p
[11:12] <pitti> no :(
[11:13] <Keybuk> you need Code2000
[11:13] <sivang> 
[11:13] <sivang> s
[11:14] <sivang> Mithrandir: okay , cool, so that means we do not officially support it.
[11:16] <MrFaber> hi all
[11:16] <Keybuk> hmm, breakfast
[11:16] <Keybuk> there's an idea
[11:16] <MrFaber> I have problems with the blkid dev library in Dapper. I can't compile util-linux because it didn't find the lib while it is installed. What could be the problem?
[11:17] <Chipzz> infinity: anyway, installing/removing stuff from a chroot /should/ be a null operation
[11:18] <infinity> Sure, but it isn't.  We all know how it could "ideally" work.
[11:21] <Kamion> Chipzz: it's not that uncommon for postrm scripts to fail and the buildd admin to have to go rescue the chroot by hand
[11:21] <Kamion> rm -rf is a lot more reliable, albeit less efficient in a number of way
[11:24] <Chipzz> Kamion: yeah I know :S
[11:25] <Chipzz> Kamion: but don't we have all kinds of scripts to test the quality of packages?
[11:26] <Kamion> sure, but we don't want our build process to be dependent on those
[11:27] <Kamion> particularly since the build process is necessary to deploy fixes to the exact same problems that might break the build process in the old model
[11:29] <Chipzz> one thing that does pop to mind is testing on a seperate chroot and comparing results before/after; which you'ld only have to do for one architecture
[11:30] <Kamion> doing this is good and useful, but it shouldn't block our build process
[11:31] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: no, you'd need to do it for all arches and test upgrades and stuff.  There's a tool, piuparts which does this.
[11:32] <infinity> pitti: Two hppa security builds rescued; thanks for the heads-up.
[11:38] <infinity> Keybuk: You have a lock on udev, or do you mind me uploading it in the next 10 minutes?
[11:43] <Mithrandir> dholbach: isn't https://launchpad.net/products/shared-mime and https://launchpad.net/products/shared-mime-info the same project?
[11:43] <Mithrandir> +s
[11:43] <Mithrandir> s/isn't/aren't/
[11:44] <dholbach> Mithrandir: hum
[11:44] <dholbach> looks like :-/
[11:45] <dholbach> i'll ask, what can be done
[11:49] <pitti> infinity: great
[11:51] <seb128> dholbach: nothing
[11:52] <seb128> dholbach: we have several similar cases and the reply was the same
[12:06] <sladen> mjg59_: regarding #37555, got any thoughts on  "Dim brightness when idle" -> brightness change = KEY_PRESS -> no longer idle so no screensaver loop
[12:08] <mjg59_> sladen: Fixed
[12:09] <mjg59_> Oh, hm. Possibly not entirely fixed.
[12:09] <mjg59_> Ought to be, though
[12:09] <sladen> mjg59_: how so?
[12:10] <mjg59_> I uploaded a gnome-screensaver that doesn't unlock itself on brightness key events
[12:10] <HiddenWolf> mjg59_: might you repeat that trick for volume keys? :)
[12:10] <mjg59_> Might be worthwhile
[12:11] <Keybuk> infinity: nope, no lock
[12:11] <mjg59_> Though it also needs fixing not to unlock when the lid is closed
[12:15] <sladen> how is the lid closing generating a keypress?
[12:17] <sladen> if hal performed the brightness changes and hal also did the brightness polling, then it would know when not to generate keypresses
[12:18] <mjg59_> sladen: It's not
[12:18] <mjg59_> sladen: Also, hal doesn't (and shouldn't) do the brightness changing
[12:19] <sladen>  /usr/share/hal/scripts/hal-system-lcd-set-brightness ?
[12:20] <mjg59_> Or, rather, it performs the actual change, but it's not responsible for making the decision to change
[12:22] <sladen> it could effectively "lock" around the change and prevent keypresses being generated.  Anyway not for dapper, lets ignore it
[12:23] <Kamion> Riddell: merged, btw
[12:30] <Riddell> Kamion: cool, thanks
[12:33] <Treenaks> jdub: if you need a replacement for your orange suit, look here: http://www.praxis.nl/upload/8ee016010b1da17d06013f4.jpg
[12:38] <Mithrandir> jordi: spanish keyboards are pc102/105, not pc101/104, right?
[12:38] <jordi> right
[12:39] <Mithrandir> thanks.  I wonder why xkb-c thinks they should be pc104, then
[12:39] <Mithrandir> jordi: actually, can you reproduce https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/43428 ?  I can't.
[12:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43428 in xkeyboard-config "Can't enter characters <> with Spanish keyboard layout" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:40] <jordi> hmm, can't test this right now at office
[12:41] <jordi> I can from home, probably when I go back tonight
[12:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: could you look at and merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/casper/preseed/ ? I'd like to support command-line preseeding in dapper so that we can possibly work around ubiquity problems using it.
[12:41] <Mithrandir> jordi: thanks, will you remember or should I send you a mail or something?
[12:41] <jordi> can you mail me?
[12:42] <jordi> that works best :P
[12:42] <Mithrandir> jordi: sure.  jordi@u.c?
[12:42] <jordi> yup
[12:46] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you removed the preseeding of d-i/locale and kbd-chooser/method because nothing look at it, or?
[12:47] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no, because in my branch they're now handled by 24preseed along with all other command-line preseed variables
[12:48] <Kamion> 19keyboard still preseeds debian-installer/keymap because that's a special case
[12:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ah, bzr diff doesn't show new files
[12:48] <Kamion> 24preseed isn't a new file
[12:48] <pitti> Mithrandir: uh? since when?
[12:48] <Kamion> [12:48] <Kamion> [12:49] <Kamion> [12:49] <Kamion> [12:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: works here (bzr diff showing new files)
[12:49] <Mithrandir> pitti: sorry, my fault.
[12:49] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, it's not new.  I wonder why I thought it was.
[12:49] <Kamion> want to pastebin the diff you've got so I can make sure it's right?
[12:50] <Mithrandir> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14113
[12:51] <Kamion> yep, that's right
[12:51] <Kamion> debian-installer/locale and kbd-chooser/method should be handled by the */* case in 24preseed
[12:52] <Mithrandir> indeed.
[12:52] <Kamion> the main case I'm thinking of is that it would be useful for people to be able to boot with clock-setup/utc=false
[12:52] <Mithrandir> this actually means I can clean up a bit of casper code, but I don't think I'll do that at this point in the cycle.
[12:52] <Kamion> because ubiquity probably won't have UI for that now for dapper
[12:54] <Mithrandir> ok, releasing 1.53 now, at least once bzr decides to finish pushing.
[12:55] <Kamion> it may be the placebo effect, but knits do seem rather faster to push
[12:56] <Mithrandir> does it upgrade to knits automagically?
[12:56] <Kamion> no, 'bzr upgrade' does it
[12:57] <Kamion> haven't tried them with sftp push yet
[12:57] <pitti> mvo: ping
[12:57] <mvo> pitti: pong
[12:58] <pitti> mvo: can you please take a look at bug 44973?
[12:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44973 in langpack-locales "dpkg-reconfigure locales is not automized?" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44973
[12:58] <pitti> mvo: (sorry, the bug title is totally wrong)
[12:59] <pitti> mvo: it's about stalling synaptics with non-debconf postinst questions
[12:59] <pitti> mvo: I believe this question (time zone) comes from libc6, not locales, right?
[12:59] <pitti> mvo: which would make it a dup of bug 30815
[12:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30815 in glibc "Please debconfify timezone questions" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30815
[01:00] <Mithrandir> 30815 should be rejected.
[01:00] <mvo> Mithrandir: why?
[01:00] <pitti> Mithrandir: why? asking questions on the command line in postinst scripts is just wrong
[01:00] <pitti> it breaks GUIs like synaptic as well
[01:01] <mvo> pitti: tzconfig is in both libc6 and locales postinst for some reason
[01:01] <Mithrandir> pitti: debconf might not work when libc isn't configured yet.
[01:01] <mvo> Mithrandir: the it should be done in the locales package or something. asking this king of question in a postinst is really not good
[01:02] <Kamion> actually, while that's true for some other things debconf depends on, libc6 is depended on by essential packages and therefore must work even when unconfigured
[01:02] <Kamion> the problem is more that when libc6 is configured, debconf might not even be there (bootstrapping), so it needs to have fallback code for that case
[01:02] <mvo> pitti: synaptic will auto-expand after ~120sec without activity on the terminal, but that is far from optimal
[01:03] <pitti> mvo: at least it's good enough as a last resort
[01:03] <Kamion> fixing it is incredibly invasive for dapper; I think we have to stick with the current code for now
[01:03] <Kamion> editing libc6.postinst 16 days before release isn't my idea of fun :)
[01:04] <mvo> AFAIK it is not triggered for everyone, I have seens this only very rarely
[01:11] <janimo> pitti, hi are you still doing main inclusion reviews for dapper?
[01:11] <pitti> janimo: nobody urged me to recently
[01:12] <janimo> pitti, ok can you please take a look at xfburn and the xfce screenshot plugin when you have time? thanks
[01:12] <pitti> ok
[01:12] <janimo> dholbach: hi, you mentioned yesterday something about rebuilding tango for xfce icons. Is that still a valid task to do?
[01:13] <dholbach> janimo: tango-icon-theme could do with a rebuild - i uploaded newer version of the rest of the stuff
[01:13] <janimo> dholbach: so just a reupload basically? I did not touch that package yet so dunno 
[01:13] <dholbach> janimo: yes - you can do that, if you like
[01:13] <janimo> dholbach: ok ,wil ldo now
[01:14] <dholbach> super
[01:14] <dholbach> if you debdiff the old and the resulting new package you will see which symlinks were added for xfce goodness
[01:14] <sladen> mjg59_: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-462556-highlight-x60s.html regarding suspend on the X60*
[01:14] <janimo> dholbach: ok, thanks.
[01:15] <mjg59_> sladen: I believe we have all the code in those patches
[01:15] <Kamion> whoops, cp -a != mv
[01:15] <infinity> Kamion: Close enough...
[01:32] <pitti> Kamion: I guess cp -al won't work on iso9660?
[01:33] <pitti> 26 MB? /me hugs Kamion
[01:34] <pitti> Kamion: if you have some minutes later today, could you please take a look at bug 14597? I'll do the necessary seed changes myself, but I'd appreciate your opinion
[01:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 14597 in gimp "English Gimp help files are not installed by default" [Wishlist,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/14597
[01:35] <Kamion> pitti: it didn't need to be in both places
[01:35] <Kamion> pitti: we would have to put the relevant pieces from l-s-en in desktop, or they wouldn't get installed
[01:35] <Kamion> which then makes them difficult to uninstall
[01:36] <pitti> Kamion: yes, 'and instead seed a subset of the current dependencies'
[01:36] <Mithrandir> seb128: any idea what would be a useful place to find users with french keyboards and macs?  #ubuntu-fr?
[01:36] <Kamion> pitti: you didn't say *where* to seed them :)
[01:36] <pitti> Kamion: hm, I see
[01:36] <Mithrandir> seb128: and are people ok with speaking English in there?
[01:36] <Kamion> what packages would need to be added to desktop?
[01:36] <pitti> Kamion: desktop and live, I guess
[01:37] <Kamion> no need to add something to live if it's already in desktop
[01:37] <pitti> Kamion: the firefox and OO.o translation/help; my gut says that we can drop thunderbird-locale-en-gb from the cd
[01:38] <janimo> mvo: does the language-support pack be present for setting a specific locale using the language chooser?
[01:39] <janimo> are sleected translations + firefox-lo not enough?
[01:39] <Kamion> oh, yes, thunderbird itself is no longer on the CD
[01:39] <janimo> I am thinking how to put more translations on the CD but if possible have more ffox/tbird translations and not necessarily OOo ones
[01:39] <Kamion> pitti: that doesn't sound too bad, although I just know it will generate complaints
[01:40] <pitti> Kamion: I know, it's about choosing which kind of complaints we want to get :/
[01:40] <pitti> missing translations or uninstallable packages
[01:40] <pitti> I'm fine with leaving it like it is for dapper and reconsidering for edgy, though, given the short time to release
[01:41] <Kamion> I'll talk to mdz when I next see him around
[01:41] <pitti> Kamion: he's CCed to the bug as well, so he'll notice
[01:42] <pitti> alright, thanks for your input!
[01:47] <mvo> janimo: I don't quite understand the question, sorry
[01:47] <janimo> mvo, if I want to set the deafult language do I need the whole support pack for it?
[01:48] <janimo> or can it swicth only the exisitng translations
[01:48] <janimo> .mo files and firefox etc
[01:48] <janimo> without downaloding from the net that is
[01:48] <mvo> janimo: no, the language-pack-$lang should be enough for that, basicly it checks locales -a
[01:48] <pitti> mvo: if you have some minutes, shall we talk about g-cups-mgr?
[01:48] <pitti> mvo: s/if/when/, just ping me
[01:49] <janimo> mvo, so if I want as many firefox translations on the CD can I explictely seed them with no afferent support pack to bring them in and they'll work? that's would be nice
[01:49] <janimo> since the support packs are >10Mb usually
[01:49] <janimo> because of OO help and l10n
[01:49] <janimo> and for the livecd I consider firefox/tbird more important to be translated
[01:51] <pitti> dholbach: if tangerine-icon-theme-common is a mere splitout, it doesn't need a separate approval
[01:51] <mvo> pitti: now is good
[01:51] <pitti> dholbach: I'll take a quick look at the package anyway, though
[01:51] <dholbach> pitti: it's in main already - i though it went through your hands
[01:51] <pitti> mvo: ok, great
[01:51] <dholbach> pitti: seems it bypassed you :)
[01:51] <pitti> dholbach: I have an unapproved report in the queue, but nevermind; I'll complain if I find sth
[01:51] <mvo> janimo: yeah, it should work
[01:51] <janimo> mvo, thanks
[01:52] <mvo> pitti: it seems that we need to modify the current patch to not hide stuff that can't be used but make it insensitive
[01:52] <mvo> but other than that I think it should be good
[01:52] <mvo> we could even add a tooltip
[01:52] <pitti> mvo: I'll take a look at it, it's on people?
[01:53] <mvo> pitti: yes, http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/test/gnome-cups-manager 
[01:53] <mvo> pitti: I can do the required modifications, we could even add a tooltip explaining why something was disabled
[01:53] <pitti> mvo: that would rock
[01:54] <infinity> dholbach: I punted it directly to main when I NEWed it, specificall because you said it was a split from other main stuff.
[01:54] <dholbach> infinity: yeah - and thanks for that!
[01:54] <dholbach> infinity: how do we go about universe libmysqlclient*?
[01:54] <mvo> pitti: but I guess you want to give it some testing first?
[01:55] <pitti> mvo: I'll test it now, but the critical work is done by the cups scripts anyway
[01:55] <infinity> dholbach: change libmysqlclient* build-deps to libmysqlclient15-dev, upload.
[01:55] <dholbach> infinity: do you want me to file bugs for the motu crew?
[01:55] <infinity> dholbach: Not much more to it than that.  The APIs have always been painfully backward compatible.
[01:55] <pitti> mvo: so we just need to make sure that they get called appropriately
[01:55] <dholbach> infinity: nice
[01:55] <dholbach> i'll do that later
[01:55] <infinity> dholbach: If I do it, it'll be next week, if MOTU can do it sooner, let 'em attack it.
[01:56] <dholbach> ok
[01:57] <ajmitch> dholbach: filing bugs will give us something to look at 
[01:57] <pitti> infinity: tbird! php! samba print brekage! :)
[01:57] <infinity> pitti: I take it you just read -changes and decided it was time for me to context switch? :)
[01:58] <pitti> infinity: oh, actually not, I read mails ten minutes ago the last time (uh, I'm a slacker)
[01:58] <pitti> infinity: and, it was just my usual bitching, nevermind :)
[01:58] <infinity> pitti: I think samba will be the next one up, then tbird.  PHP may be post-RC, since it's the least important of the bunch (PHP "security" is a joke, and if the new upstream doesn't make it, we'll get over it)
[01:59] <carlos> Riddell: hi, is there any easy fix for this from your side? https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/38472
[01:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38472 in amarok "Korean instead of Kurdish imported into Rosetta" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:59] <pitti> mvo: oioioi - I start g-c-m and I immediately get the 'will open port, the sky is falling' question dialog
[01:59] <carlos> Riddell: or at least is there planned an upload with the 1.4 beta release?
[01:59] <pitti> mvo: ...twice
[02:00] <pitti> mvo: also, browsing_status returns 0 (i. e. disabled, not customized), but 'Detect LAN printers' is disabled in the menu
[02:01] <pitti> mvo: ah, I think I might know what's going on - I enabled sharing, but disabled browsing. apparently, enabling sharing also enables browsing in g-c-m and disables the browsing option
[02:02] <pitti> mvo: however, it should not be disabled if browsing is off
[02:02] <pitti> mvo: actually, the two options are entirely independent from each other, so I'm not sure they should influence each other in the GUI
[02:02] <mvo> pitti: that you get that twice looks like a bug :/ I got the mail from ivoks that they should be dependant
[02:03] <mvo> no idea about it, I suspected something in the scripts
[02:03] <pitti> mvo: well, if you enable sharing, enabling browsing make sense of course
[02:03] <pitti> mvo: (for that reason 'Detect LAN printers' should be renamed to 'Detect and advertise LAN printers'
[02:04] <pitti> mvo: it's already a bug that I get the question immediately after starting g-c-m
[02:04] <pitti> mvo: I think we should keep it simple for now and keep it orthogonal
[02:04] <mvo> even better
[02:05] <pitti> mvo: i. e. I need to enable sharing to allow my flatmate to print, but windows doesn't speak cups browsing anyway, so I don't need to enable that
[02:05] <Treenaks> pitti: it does understand IPP printing, just not browsing
[02:05] <pitti> Treenaks: right, that's what I said :)
[02:06] <Treenaks> pitti: just clarifying :)
[02:06] <pitti> although cups browsing is just love and magic :)
[02:06] <pitti> (one of the few things that actually work really well :) )
[02:07] <pitti> infinity: wow, impressive list of initramfs fixes
[02:08] <Riddell> carlos: I don't plan to upload 1.4 to dapper, I could delete the translation from the package though
[02:08] <infinity> pitti: Given that I had to rewrite all of them today?  Yeah.
[02:08] <infinity> pitti: Otherwise, not really.  There were more before the crash.
[02:09] <carlos> Riddell: if you don't need to upload another version before dapper release, that's not needed
[02:09] <pitti> mvo: so are you fine with making these changes? that would rock
[02:09] <carlos> Riddell: so don't do an specific upload to fix it, but if you do another fix on that package, please, do it
[02:10] <mvo> pitti: yeah, very much so. I like it a lot when things get simpler
[02:11] <pitti> dholbach: lol @ t-i-theme-common debian/copyright: "It was downloaded from my harddisk."
[02:11] <pitti> dholbach: I'm sure debian-legal would find that very funny :)
[02:11] <_ion> pitti: :-)
[02:11] <raphink> lol
[02:11] <dholbach> pitti: I'll replace those with the bzr branches in the next upload :)
[02:11] <raphink> pitti: got to talk to you today
[02:11] <raphink> :)
[02:12] <dholbach> and to be honest, I copied that from Ross  Burton's sound-juicer :)
[02:12] <raphink> hi dholbach, mvo && pitti btw :)
[02:12] <pitti> dholbach: there's certainly any upstream source for all these graphics?
[02:12] <pitti> hi raphink 
[02:12] <dholbach> pitti: in an bzr branch
[02:12] <raphink> pitti: I'd like to ask you some questions about translations
[02:13] <pitti> raphink: go ahead (I might lag a bit since I'm doing other things, but I'll answer)
[02:13] <raphink> ok
[02:13] <zul> heylo
[02:13] <pitti> hi zul 
[02:13] <raphink> pitti: how do you deal with desktop files that are translated with desktop.in + po ?
[02:13] <raphink> pitti: these required an export form rosetta back to the package + rebuild
[02:14] <raphink> and langpacks won't translate them
[02:14] <pitti> raphink: not any more in dapper :)
[02:14] <raphink> pitti: ?
[02:14] <raphink> pitti: how so?
[02:14] <pitti> raphink: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LangpacksDesktopfiles
[02:14] <raphink> well I'll take an example
[02:14] <raphink> language-selector has been translated in many languages
[02:14] <raphink> including the desktop file
[02:14] <raphink> from the po
[02:14] <pitti> raphink: gnome-menus & co do use gettext now to translate .desktop, .server, and .directory files
[02:15] <raphink> yet the desktop file that is shipped in the end stil has only few languages
[02:15] <pitti> raphink: right, we do not merge the rosetta translations back into the .desktop file, but they are used through direct gettext invocation
[02:15] <raphink> pitti: not in KDE then
[02:16] <mhz> iwj: ping
[02:16] <pitti> raphink: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LangpacksDesktopfilesKDE, not yet implemented :(
[02:16] <raphink> argh
[02:16] <raphink> is someone working on it?
[02:16] <raphink> we need that for dapper
[02:16] <pitti> raphink: for these you need to update the package's po files and reupload
[02:16] <raphink> otherwise we'll gonna have most menu entries in english
[02:16] <pitti> raphink: no chance to implement that for dapper
[02:17] <raphink> pitti: so we have to export the pos from rosettta
[02:17] <pitti> raphink: uploading packages with updated PO files is fine, but not implementing that spec
[02:17] <raphink> and rebuild
[02:17] <Riddell> raphink: I didn't have time to do it for dapper
[02:17] <raphink> Riddell: ok
[02:17] <raphink> then we have to do the export from rosetta + rebuild thingy
[02:17] <Riddell> most .desktop files are translated upstream, at least in KDE
[02:17] <raphink> for adept, language-selector, etc.
[02:17] <raphink> we should create a wiki page listing all the packages that need this
[02:18] <raphink> so it can be done before release
[02:18] <raphink> I don't want to ship dapper in french with english menus
[02:18] <raphink> when people have worked hard to have all the desktop translated on rosetta
[02:18] <raphink> this would be too bad
[02:18] <raphink> pitti: I've tried this technique with language-selector
[02:19] <raphink> but funnily enough it didn't rebuild the desktop files when I built the package
[02:19] <pitti> raphink: right; I don't see a problem with manual uploads, that's what we did in earlier releases, too
[02:19] <raphink> I had to run intltool manually before building
[02:19] <pitti> raphink: hm, then it doesn't use intltool-merge, or at least not in the right way
[02:19] <raphink> well the makefile contains
[02:19] <pitti> raphink: usually you have an untranslated .desktop.in and run intltool-merge
[02:19] <raphink> %.desktop: %.desktop.in
[02:19] <raphink>         intltool-merge -d ../po $< $@
[02:20] <raphink> there's no %.desktop.in rule though
[02:20] <pitti> that should already be present
[02:20] <raphink> yes
[02:20] <raphink> it is
[02:20] <pitti> it's the 'source' file
[02:20] <raphink> should that work?
[02:20] <pitti> actually yes
[02:20] <raphink> hmm it doesn't
[02:21] <raphink> when I run intltool-merge manually it works
[02:21] <raphink> but not when I build
[02:21] <pitti> taht's a package bug then
[02:21] <_ion> Maybe nothing in the Makefile depends on the .desktop files.
[02:21] <raphink> maybe it's a problem with rules
[02:21] <pitti> raphink: does the package already ship a .desktop file?
[02:21] <raphink> well it ships this one
[02:21] <pitti> raphink: if so, and its date is newer than the desktop.in file, the rule will never be executed
[02:21] <raphink> but then the desktop file should be rebuilt
[02:21] <raphink> ah right
[02:21] <raphink> pitti: ic
[02:22] <raphink> so actually the desktop file should be cleaned in rules, right?
[02:22] <pitti> raphink: it looks wrong to ship a .desktop file in the upstream orig.tar.gz, and even more so in the diff.gz
[02:22] <raphink> or there should be clean rule in the Makefile
[02:22] <raphink> there's no orig.tar.gz
[02:22] <raphink> ;)
[02:22] <pitti> raphink: right, clean it in debian/rules clean
[02:22] <raphink> it's a native debian package
[02:22] <pitti> ah
[02:22] <pitti> raphink: remove it from the package and reupload
[02:22] <raphink> so I could well do it in the Makefile
[02:22] <raphink> ok
[02:22] <raphink> well i'll remove from the pakage and rebuild locally
[02:22] <pitti> yes, fixing the distclean rule would be nice as well
[02:22] <raphink> to test first ;)
[02:23] <mvo> pitti: how does enable_sharing detects if the cupds.conf was changed? I try to test my changes right now
[02:23] <pitti> raphink: so, fixing that and updating the po files warrants an upload :)
[02:23] <raphink> ok
[02:23] <pitti> mvo: it calls sharing_status, which in turn does a few checks on the config files
[02:24] <pitti> mvo: i. e. to make it return with 2 (customized), just remove/comment out the respective include directive in cupsd.conf
[02:24] <raphink> pitti: so should I fix it in the Makefile or in debian/rules in your opinion?
[02:24] <pitti> raphink: fixing in Makefile (clean rule) sounds better to me
[02:24] <raphink> ok
[02:24] <raphink> :)
[02:24] <raphink> I'll do that
[02:24] <raphink> :)
[02:25] <pitti> debian/rules should just fix errors in upstream's build system, but if we can fix the latter, so much the better
[02:25] <mako> neuralis: hey there
[02:25] <mako> neuralis: CC meeting going, or about to
[02:25] <raphink> yes pitti
[02:25] <raphink> I'll try that
[02:26] <mvo> pitti: I uploaded a new version (ubuntu7.2) to people
[02:26] <pitti> mvo: yay, I'll try that
[02:27] <mvo> pitti: I'm building amd64 debs just now
[02:27] <raphink> :s
[02:27] <pitti> mvo: I'm already building locally here, don't worry
[02:27] <mvo> pitti: ok
[02:30] <Kagou> hi
[02:32] <pitti> mvo: now, that works just marvellous here
[02:32] <pitti> hi Kagou 
[02:32] <pitti> mvo: if you are at it, maybe you can also change the 'Detect LAN printers' string to 'Detect/Advertise'?
[02:32] <pitti> also, maybe some native English speaker has a better suggestion?
[02:32] <Kagou> hi pitti :) did you seen the normal/minor/high/minor bug on cups ;)
[02:33] <pitti> Kagou: yes, a mess :/
[02:33] <pitti> Kagou: I hope that it'll be solved soon, that bug sucks
[02:33] <pitti> Kagou: what, is it minor again?
[02:33] <Kagou> pitti, yes
[02:34] <pitti> grrr
[02:34] <Kagou> cups dev consider that users have to use postcript driver on windows client instead of printers drivers
[02:34] <pitti> but as long as windows doesn't come with proper ps drivers, that won't happen
[02:35] <pitti> (I really hate windows for not doing that, but we can't help that)
[02:35] <Kagou> indeed
[02:35] <pitti> allowing my flatmates to print to my printer from their XP boxes is a real adventure
[02:36] <pitti> ("Oh, where the heck did I toss the CD shipped with the printer?", given that I never bother to waste just even a look at accompanying CDs)
[02:36] <Kagou> :)
[02:37] <pitti> mdke: ping?
[02:37] <mvo> pitti: right, will do
[02:37] <pitti> mvo: let's ask mdke for ui freeze breakage
[02:38] <mvo> pitti: string is changed
[02:42] <ajmitch> infinity: could you send those build logs to myself or the motu list please?
[02:44] <pitti> janimo: . o O { looking at the packaging of xfce stuff is a real joy! }
[02:45] <janimo> pitti,I wonder  you really mean it (cdbs) or not mean it (svn snapshot ugliness) ;)
[02:45] <janimo> I hope xfce.mk though :)
[02:46] <pitti> janimo: no, that was sincere, I refered to packaging. reading these very small, clean, and consistent diff.gz's is nice
[02:46] <ajmitch> infinity: that is, if they weren't on that fujitsu drive. 
[02:46] <janimo> pitti, phew. Indeed cdbs rules for xfce as I found during dapper
[02:46] <pitti> ajmitch: I wonder what 'Fujitsu' really means :)
[02:47] <ajmitch> pitti: it makes me wonder.. :)
[02:47] <pitti> "Who is General Failure? And why the hell is he reading my hard disk?"
[02:47] <sivang> ha ha ha
[02:48] <pitti> backup, too
[02:48] <sivang> pitti: over the hosting company, ofcourse :)
[02:49] <ajmitch> I recently switched to other drives, in a RAID setup :)
[02:49] <pitti> yes, 800 km should be enough
[02:49] <pitti> if there's an event that kills both my server and my home, I have other things to worry about
[02:49] <pitti> or none at all any more
[02:49] <sivang> pitti: indeed :)
[02:49] <ajmitch> heh
[02:49] <ajmitch> time for sleep, night all
[02:50] <jsgotangco> night ajmitch
[02:50] <sivang> night ajmitch 
[02:51] <ogra> pitti, you mean like a big magnetic storm that overcasts germany
[02:51] <pitti> ogra: that'll throw us back to stone age anyway :)
[02:52] <pitti> janimo: can you please quickly explain to me how xfce4-mount-plugin works?
[02:52] <janimo> pitti, I think it only shows what's in fstab
[02:52] <pitti> janimo: does it use gksudo, or only mounts fstab user drives?
[02:52] <janimo> pitti, not used it much I admit
[02:52] <pitti> janimo: so, no setuid magic?
[02:53] <janimo> oh, none of that I am almost sure
[02:53] <ogra> pitti, arent we there yet anyway ? i mean silicon is some kind of stone ;)
[02:53] <pitti> I don't see a postinst, and no suid programs in the .deb
[02:53] <janimo> pitti, no suid binary
[02:54] <pitti> janimo: right, indeed; so I assume it can only handle fstab stuff
[02:54] <janimo> I _think_ it's just a big graphical way of showing free space on various partoitions
[02:54] <janimo> yes
[02:54] <pitti> janimo: btw, does xfce handle usb hard disks and the like?
[02:54] <pitti> + This plugin for Xfce displays a list of the various devices available, giving
[02:54] <pitti> + the opportunity to mount/umount them.
[02:54] <janimo> pitti, thunar talks to HAL so modulo bugs it should
[02:54] <pitti> janimo: our hal can't mount drives, I disabled that
[02:55] <janimo> pitti, ok. Feel free to set this plugin aside for now, I'll ping if I review it more thorougly. I just saw it is not setuid so supposed it cannot do harm
[02:55] <pitti> janimo: so, it might be useless enough to not put it in main, maybe
[02:55] <janimo> pitti, oh then thunar cannot either
[02:55] <janimo> pitti, agreed.
[02:56] <pitti> janimo: I'm fine with the plugin security-wise, I just question how useful it is
[02:56] <janimo> screenshooter is the nice one which may be in main as users need it not just mount point aware geeks :)
[02:56] <janimo> pitti, yeah I don;t think it's of much use, but looks nice. At a click you see the space occupied and all mounpoints.  A df GUI :)
[02:57] <pitti> ok, that's nice
[02:57] <pitti> well, and even an fstab mount interface is at least good for CD-ROMs
[02:57] <janimo> like the disks tool in g-s-t somewhat
[02:58] <pitti> janimo: xfburn works reasonably for you?
[02:58] <janimo> pitti, well if no security concern and it's not much trouble, please allow it in main then
[02:58] <janimo> pitti, yep, better than graveman
[02:58] <pitti> janimo: yes, I approved all the plugins, xfburn is the last xfce one
[02:58] <janimo> but only for the ismple tasks it is advertised for
[02:58] <janimo> I just burn .isos with it and it did not crash unlike graveman
[02:59] <janimo> no bugs at all upstream, people seem content and silent about it
[02:59] <janimo> although complain about lack of some features (audiocd,dvd etc)
[03:00] <pitti> janimo: reload the queue :)
[03:00] <pitti> janimo: s/queue/page and look at the queue/
[03:00] <janimo> thanks
[03:01] <pitti> no problem
[03:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: french keyboard and mac? maybe you can ping hub when he's around. I think that probably most people on #ubuntu-fr doesn't speak english
[03:01] <iwj> mhz: pong
[03:01] <Mithrandir> seb128: 'k
[03:02] <seb128> Mithrandir: other way look on launchpad bugs about that, there is a french guy who is active on the topic, you can probably drop him some comments or mails about it
[03:02] <seb128> he would probably be happy to help sorting that
[03:10] <pitti> Keybuk, Kamion: bzrtools is fine for me packaging-wise (but not really necessary to have in main IMHO); celementtree has no reverse dependencies, but is fine; paramiko is fine
[03:17] <Kamion> pitti: bzrtools is kind of nice for push at least
[03:17] <Kamion> although you can rsync, sure
[03:17] <Kamion> oh, bzr shelve
[03:17] <pitti> Kagou: I sent another plea to http://www.cups.org/str.php?L1667
[03:17] <Kamion> how can we not have that :-)
[03:18] <pitti> heh, true
[03:18] <pitti> and it's tiny
[03:19] <mvo> pitti: can you please have a look at bug #42002
[03:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42002 in language-support-ko "Korean fonts are so ugly." [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42002
[03:19] <Kamion> dunno, it probably belongs in supported rather than ship anyway
[03:20] <mhz> iwj: I have translated a firefox index page, read your wiki page about it..but I understood like 5% of it, sorry. Any other way we could just implement my version of index page (into spanish, Chile)
[03:20] <pitti> mvo: oh, so we should throw ttf-baekmuk out of *-desktop and replace it with ttf-allee?
[03:21] <Kagou> pitti, totally agree with your comment. I don't know how mike can considere that's a minor bug when we see users comments/reactions.
[03:22] <mvo> pitti: maybe we should just add it
[03:24] <pitti> mvo: I replied to the bug
[03:24] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[03:24] <pitti> mvo: should be fine, but I want a confirmation of what we need to do, and which package is better
[03:25] <mvo> pitti: ok
[03:29] <CarlFK> /jion #ubuntu-kernel
[03:29] <CarlFK> huh?
[03:29] <CarlFK> \join #ubuntu-kernel
[03:30] <thom> that doesn't work either :-)
[03:31] <ivoks> pitti: ping
[03:31] <ivoks> pitti: just a quick note; upstream cups doesn't have a bug with windows IPP printing
[03:31] <ivoks> pitti: only cups packages...
[03:31] <ivoks> i'll take a look at it today
[03:35] <mdke> pitti: hi
[03:36] <pitti> mdke: I think I already asked you some time ago, but would you and the doc-team be fine with adding an "Enable printer sharing" menu item to gnome-cups-manager?
[03:36] <Tetralet> Kamion: ping
[03:36] <pitti> mdke: and renaming "Detect LAN printers" to "Detect/Advertise LAN printers"?
[03:36] <mdke> pitti: sure, np
[03:36] <pitti> mdke: great
[03:36] <pitti> mvo: ^ :)
[03:37] <mdke> our docs on printing are woefully small. dunno about upstream's
[03:37] <pitti> mvo: so, if Kamion is fine with it as well, let's do it ASAP
[03:37] <janimo> pitti, I was wondering why g-c-m has two patches which could be one for the gksudo line changing?
[03:37] <Kamion> Tetralet: hi
[03:37] <Tetralet> Kamion: There is a serious bug in Debian-Installer Traditional Chinese translation.
[03:37] <Kamion> pitti: fine by me if the doc team is and if translations can be updated
[03:37] <pitti> janimo: probably just aggregated cruft over time
[03:38] <pitti> Kamion: yes, uses PO files and gettext
[03:38] <iwj> mhz: Err, mdke usually handles that side of it.  I don't know exactly what has to happen to the translated page to get it into the right places.
[03:38] <janimo> pitti, ok. Just as the different diff and patch suffixes in the pathes dir :)
[03:38] <Tetralet> Kamion: It is the patch: http://debian.luna.com.tw/debian-installer-zh_TW.diff
[03:38] <pitti> Kamion: and the previous string was already ubuntu specific
[03:38] <mdke> mhyeah, send it to me by email
[03:38] <Kamion> pitti: did it have any existing translations?
[03:38] <pitti> I need to run out for a bit, back in ~ 1.5 hours
[03:38] <iwj> mhz: What's the locale for this ?  Does firefox already have a separate language setup (aka xpi) for that locale ?
[03:38] <mdke> iwj: he's not in the chan
[03:38] <pitti> Kamion: German (from me), I'll check the others
[03:39] <mdke> just realised when my tab complete didn't work
[03:39] <iwj> Oh, so he isn't.
[03:39] <mdke> i'll mail him
[03:39] <iwj> Thanks.
[03:39] <Kamion> Tetralet: OK; has that fix been committed upstream?
[03:39] <Tetralet> Kamion: yes
[03:40] <mdke> iwj: looks like there is no ff localisation for it anyhow
[03:40] <Kamion> Tetralet: ok, I'll upload that now. Can you explain the seriousness of it to me?
[03:40] <iwj> mdke: Ahm.
[03:40] <Tetralet> Kamion: An mis-translation. s/password/user's fullname/g
[03:41] <Kamion> heh, ok
[03:41] <iwj> I don't think I want to be inventing the xpi-less ff localisation thing in m-f-l-all at this stage.
[03:41] <Kamion> uploaded, thanks
[03:41] <mdke> iwj: heh
[03:41] <Tetralet> Kamion: thanks!!
[03:50] <ogra> seb128, what did change in the last gnome-session upload ? seems the power management behavior changed: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-May/001409.html
[03:50] <seb128> ogra: using gnome-power-manager instead of gdm
[03:50] <ogra> seems its not covered by the test if a user is logged in locally or remotely
[03:51] <seb128> there never was a test or a case for that
[03:51] <seb128> is was asking to gdm before
[03:51] <seb128> now it's asking to gnome-power-manager
[03:54] <ogra> meh, so its a g-p-m bug ?
[03:54] <Mithrandir> Kamion: not bzrtools too?
[03:55] <Kamion> oh yeah, that too
[03:55] <seb128> ogra: where does the dbus session bus is running
[03:55] <kgoetz> hi all. are Scot james rembrant or seveas about?
[03:56] <ogra> seb128, on the server indeed, as everything
[03:56] <Mithrandir> kgoetz: Scott's Keybuk 
[03:57] <kgoetz> Mithrandir: thanks. Keybuk ping
[03:57] <seb128> ogra: here you go
[03:58] <seb128> ogra: it uses the dbus bus to ask the actions available and to do them
[03:58] <ogra> bah
[03:58] <kgoetz> Mithrandir: is there a good time to find him? i need to ask about some readahead data i got for him
[03:59] <Mithrandir> kgoetz: he's probably around; he logs off when he's not here.
[03:59] <Mithrandir> kgoetz: or drop him a mail.
[04:00] <kgoetz> Mithrandir: hm. thanks. i'll attach teh data to the bug and hope hes ok with it in a tar (theres half a dozen files). ty
[04:02] <ogra> mjg59_, any chance g-p-m could check if LTSP_CLIENT is set in the environment, to not allow client users to hibernate the server ?
[04:04] <dieman> rock
[04:04] <dieman> my boss got the funding worked out so I can come to the next summit
[04:05] <Mithrandir> dieman: next as in Paris?
[04:06] <dieman> yah
[04:06] <Mithrandir> nice
[04:07] <dieman> yah
[04:07] <dieman> i try to get to a conf/meeting/etc at least once every two years
[04:17] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/cdimage/mainline/ FWIW
[04:17] <Kamion> yay no more insane permissions conflicts
[04:21] <infinity> Kamion: \o/
[04:23] <infinity> Kamion: How painful was the conversion?  lamont and I still need to move the buildd stuff from baz.
[04:24] <Kamion> straightforward - 'bzr baz-import-branch cdimage colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/cdimage--mainline--0
[04:24] <Kamion> '
[04:24] <infinity> Oh, cool.
[04:24] <Kamion> the difficult bit was the subsidiary branches based off baz imports
[04:24] <Kamion> but use bzr/bzrtools 0.8 and you'll be fine
[04:24] <janimo> do you know btw if the supermirror already uses bzr instead of baz?
[04:24] <infinity> I expect we won't care much about insane branch history and such anyway.  One trunk should be good enough.
[04:25] <Kamion> just import them all in turn
[04:25] <Kamion> into the same target directory
[04:25] <Kamion> baz-import-branch should connect them up if you do that
[04:38] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:38] <jsgotangco> that's so hello kitty-ish
[04:40] <KaiL> mjg59_, for the Laptop-Whitelist: Asus M2N.. where to find the $model?
[04:41] <kgoetz> omg. whos behind the live cd installer? it Just Worked like a charm! thats amazing
[04:42] <Kamion> kgoetz: thanks, glad it worked :)
[04:42] <kgoetz> Kamion: its awsome :)
[04:43] <KaiL> mjg59_, I guess "system.product"? That's "M2N 1.0"
[04:56] <dieman> shoot
[04:56] <dieman> the hotel just ran out of rooms
[04:56] <dieman> it looks
[05:06] <seb128> mdke: around ?
[05:09] <sladen> KaiL: can you file that against:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/44781  where you'll also find the pointers
[05:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44781 in acpi-support "Suspend works on Laptop XYZ (white-list requests)" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[05:10] <mdke> seb128: yes
[05:13] <sladen> ogra: hahhaa.  Does suspend work aswell aswell on the server from an LTSP client.
[05:13] <ogra> sladen, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-May/001409.html
[05:13] <sladen> ogra: I think it might be easier to just change pmi to check and reply False to  pmi query ...
[05:17] <ogra> hmm, does pmi have the user env during that query ? 
[05:19] <kgoetz> i had no luck asking on -bugs, so i'm trying here: where should i file a bug on no en_AU dictionaries on a clean install?
[05:23] <sladen> ogra: mmm, probably.  No reason why it shouldn't, I don't think
[05:24] <sladen> ogra: is it just hiding the Hibernate option, or do you want to actually stop it happening.  If the later, then you're going to have to do it in pmi anyway, other somebody can just grab a terminal and do   LTSP_CLIENT='' pmi action hibernate
[05:25] <ogra> hmm
[05:26] <janimo> ogra: did you talk to ltsp/xfce guy since yesterday?
[05:26] <ogra> nope
[05:27] <janimo> ogra: I'll try to talk to him then, thanks
[05:27] <ogra> janimo, but seb128 just told me that gnome-session is querying gdm to get the info if it should show shutdown options, i guess xfce-session should just steal the code there
[05:28] <seb128> ogra: not, it's using gnome-power-manager now I said
[05:28] <ogra> seb128, even for shutdown/reboot ? 
[05:28] <ogra> janimo, so grab the code before that change then ;)
[05:28] <janimo> seb128: so what is it asking  whether is remote/local login or more generally if it's allowed or not to reboot
[05:28] <seb128> halt
[05:28] <seb128> not reboot
[05:28] <ogra> (unless you use g-p-m in xubuntu)
[05:29] <janimo> unfortunately no g-p-m in xubuntu
[05:29] <seb128> janimo: who is asking that?
[05:29] <seb128> ah
[05:29] <seb128> halt_supported      = gdm_supports_logout_action (GDM_LOGOUT_ACTION_SHUTDOWN);
[05:29] <seb128> reboot_supported    = gdm_supports_logout_action (GDM_LOGOUT_ACTION_REBOOT);
[05:29] <seb128> there is a bug here ;)
[05:29] <ogra> seb128, ltsp users have a similar prob to the abve with xubuntu, the logout dialog shows shutdown/reboot by default and they can stop the server
[05:29] <seb128> because the action is gpm_dbus_interaction ("Shutdown");
[05:30] <janimo> ogra: although xfce has a kioisk feature by which the admin can just say no shutdown/reboot
[05:30] <seb128> ogra: xubuntu uses gnome-session?
[05:30] <janimo> in a RC file. it may be a simpler solution
[05:30] <ogra> seb128, nope, xfce-session
[05:30] <janimo> seb128: heh no :)
[05:30] <seb128> so nothing to do with that
[05:30] <Kamion> kgoetz: language-support-en, probably
[05:30] <ogra> seb128, but xfce-session is missing the feature gnome-session has ;)
[05:31] <seb128> sure, it's supposed to be less powerfull since it's without GNOME :p
[05:31] <ogra> seb128, so my proposal was to grab the gdm querying code from there to make xfce session behave like gnome-session
[05:31] <janimo> ogra,seb128 let's start again because it's getting confusing:
[05:31] <janimo> 1)gnome-session asks gdm whether user can shutdown.true or false?
[05:32] <ogra> it used to, yes
[05:32] <janimo> true or false? :)
[05:32] <seb128> it still does apparently, but that's a bug
[05:32] <ogra> that did change recently, so you need to look at older code
[05:32] <seb128> halt_supported      = gdm_supports_logout_action (GDM_LOGOUT_ACTION_SHUTDOWN);
[05:32] <seb128> I supposed it should be changed to something like
[05:32] <seb128> suspend_supported   = gpm_dbus_interaction ("CanSuspend");
[05:32] <seb128> supposing that g-p-m has a CanHalt
[05:34] <ogra> janimo, so you need the code from gnome-session seb128 posted above
[05:34] <janimo> ogra, anyway xfce kiosk settings can be used and they are selfcontained only depend on xfce4-session running
 halt_supported      = gdm_supports_logout_action (GDM_LOGOUT_ACTION_SHUTDOWN);
 reboot_supported    = gdm_supports_logout_action (GDM_LOGOUT_ACTION_REBOOT);
[05:34] <janimo> ogra: what if your man does not run gdm?
[05:34] <ogra> you get no response then i guess
[05:34] <infinity> Does all this magic use libpam-foreground these days?... If so, I'd think that LTSP clients shouldn't be soncidered "foreground" users.
[05:35] <sladen> infinity: yup.
[05:35] <seb128> you don't have reboot or shutdown options without gdm
[05:35] <infinity> considered, too.
[05:35] <ogra> infinity, since its used through g-p-m ...
[05:35] <seb128> speaking about pam
[05:35] <seb128> who does pam here? I've a bug for him
[05:35] <sladen> infinity: they're getting their priviliges from somewhere...
[05:36] <Kamion> seb128: that depends, I occasionally do
[05:36] <seb128> bug #41923
[05:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41923 in gdm "Wrong password accepted in login window" [Unknown,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41923
[05:36] <Kamion> but only really insofar as it affects ssh
[05:36] <infinity> seb128: jbailey's working on a PAM upload right now.
[05:36] <seb128> basically that's "correct_passwork<non-utf-8-char>" is accepted
[05:37] <seb128> password
[05:37] <seb128> according to gdm upstream that's a pam issue and not a gdm one
[05:37] <seb128> but I'm not sure on how to figure if that's really pam
[05:38] <ogra> seb128, does the new gdm-ssh handler use ssh -X for connections like we do in ltsp ? 
[05:38] <seb128> ogra: "ssh -A -X -T -n "$TARGETHOST" /etc/X11/Xsession"
[05:38] <seb128> ogra: it does that
[05:38] <ogra> cool 1!!
[05:39] <ogra> being able to set -C would be needed additionally, but then we can switch ltsp to gdm in egdy, yay !
[05:40] <janimo> seb128: on first login froom gdm is the Default session being used instead of /usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop?
[05:40] <seb128> ] $ grep DefaultSession /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
[05:40] <seb128> DefaultSession=default.desktop
[05:40] <seb128> janimo: correct
[05:40] <janimo> yup
[05:40] <seb128> why?
[05:41] <janimo> seb128: the same happens for xfce,
[05:41] <janimo> and I want to be sure the xfce.desktop is started first
[05:41] <janimo> since it startx xscreensaver and other bits, while default does not
[05:41] <janimo> only after user explcitely selects that entry in the gdm login screen
[05:42] <janimo> otherwise it's a fallback to x-session-manager which calls barebone xfce4-session
[05:42] <janimo> seb128: so is gnome.desktop set to default or only if a user choses it?
[05:42] <ogra> so just set it in your gdm-cdd.conf ;)
[05:43] <ogra> thast what its for
[05:43] <seb128> janimo: default.desktop is the default
[05:43] <janimo> ogra: I know but want to make sure there's no cleaner way
[05:43] <janimo> as gnome does not set it but still runs fine
[05:43] <janimo> seb128: yes, but it still starts gnome in a default ubuntu install no?
[05:43] <seb128> gnome.desktop is used if you pick gnome
[05:44] <seb128> right, you don't expect it to start xfce on Ubuntu by default?
[05:44] <janimo> is it not different if run from default or from gnome.desktop? I am only interested in stock instal, first login
[05:44] <seb128> what else would you start by default on Ubuntu
[05:44] <seb128> I think I don't get the question
[05:44] <janimo> seb128: so, on a stock ubuntu/gnome install, first login:
[05:45] <janimo> user just enters user/pass and is taken to gnome
[05:45] <janimo> default.desktop was used not gnome.desktop right?
[05:45] <seb128> no, it's taken to xfce
[05:45] <janimo> seb128: stock ubuntu/gnome install as I said
[05:45] <seb128> I've no idea
[05:45] <seb128> GNOME is started
[05:45] <janimo> no xfce in the picture
[05:45] <seb128> I didn't try to figure how
[05:45] <seb128> janimo: that was irony
[05:46] <seb128> asking if GNOME is started by default on Ubuntu seems a joke
[05:46] <seb128> I should have replied "no, windows XP is started" ;)
[05:46] <seb128> it would have been clear that way :p
[05:46] <janimo> seb128: oh boy
[05:46] <ogra> :)
[05:47] <janimo> I was explciit since you said you dont;understand the question
[05:47] <seb128> yeah, I got it now
[05:47] <janimo> so plainly. On a default ubuntu.gnome install how is a gnome.desktop session diffenent from a default.desktop one
 I didn't try to figure how
[05:48] <janimo> because default.desktop in xubuntu is different from xfce.desktop. The former only starts the session manager, the latter a bash script which does other stuff as well
[05:48] <janimo> seb128: ok. thanks
[05:48] <seb128> np
[05:48] <seb128> I don't get what you are doing
[05:48] <seb128> ship a gdm-cdd.conf
[05:49] <ogra> seb128, he wants to override the defaul
[05:49] <ogra> t
[05:49] <seb128> and use DefaultSession=xfce.desktop
[05:49] <ogra> exactly
[05:49] <seb128> default.desktop should not be shipped by xubuntu
[05:49] <seb128> it's shipped by gdm
[05:49] <seb128> that's a builtin session
[05:49] <seb128> which is supposed to do what your box default too
[05:49] <seb128> (ie: like a startx)
[05:49] <seb128> if you want xfce, why not using xfce.desktop?
[05:52] <infinity> seb128: Just tested here with a very (very) barebones PAM C client.  Doesn't exhibit the broken behaviour GDM does.
[05:52] <infinity> seb128: I expect GDM is stripping chars or something equally vile.
[05:52] <seb128> infinity: hum, k
[05:52] <seb128> infinity: thank you, I'll have a look on what gdm does exactly (but latter)
[05:54] <infinity> seb128: For reference, "poppassd" is about the slimmest PAM client I can think of off the top of my head, without writing an even smaller (and more useless) one.
[05:54] <seb128> infinity: ok, thank you
[05:54] <infinity> seb128: Other than the printing of response banners, it's just a PAM I/O client.  Useful for testing (you can just run it on the command line, no need to telnet to it)
[05:56] <janimo> seb128: of course not shipping default.desktop but modifying the entry in gdm-cdd.conf to Default=xfce4.desktop
[05:56] <janimo> Since if I leave the default even if it startx xfce-session it's not quite the same.
[05:57] <janimo> s/startx/starts/
[05:57] <seb128> what does it do if you "start"?
[05:58] <dappered> i'm installing flight 6 onto a laptop now and as part of the process resizing a 60g partition. resize2fs has been running for around an hour now and although the HDD LED is on, i'm starting to think that it's failed. the process isn't sleeping however: 11919 ? R 1:44 resize2fs /dev/hda1 44992M. is this a known problem with the partitioner?
[05:58] <jsgotangco> goodnight
[05:58] <Kamion> dappered: it's a known problem that it doesn't give feedback
[05:58] <janimo> seb128: not sure I understand? what does it do if I just leave the default session?
[05:59] <janimo> it starts xfce4-session and that's all since it falls back to it via x-session-manager
[05:59] <Kamion> dappered: but on a partition that size on a slow laptop disk, it's possible that it is in fact still running
[05:59] <dappered> Kamion: hehe right ok. if you suggest that an hour running isn't unreasonable, i'll be patient.
[05:59] <dieman> heh suck
[05:59] <Kamion> you can 'strace -p 11919' to check
[05:59] <Kamion> ctrl-c when you're bored
[05:59] <dappered> sure ok.
[05:59] <dieman> i can't be in the same hotel now, they ran out of rooms -- luckily theres a hotel about .5 mi away
[06:00] <Kamion> I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say it isn't unreasonable :)
[06:00] <seb128> janimo: forget about that, I think I just don't get what is your issue with using xfce4.desktop ;)
[06:00] <seb128> or why you ask about default.desktop is xfce4.desktop works fine
[06:00] <dappered> Kamion: that's looking positive, it's still active.
[06:00] <ogra> seb128, he thinks the way through gdm-cdd.conf is uncler
[06:00] <janimo> seb128: because xfce4.desktop must be explicitly selected by the user.
[06:01] <ogra> *unclean
[06:01] <janimo> the default is default.desktop but it does not start all that xfce4.desktop starts
[06:01] <dappered> i realise this is also a boring topic, but are the fglrx drivers known to work in dapper on a 2.6.16* kernel?
[06:01] <janimo> so even if it loooks like 'ok, xfce is started', some things are not (xscreensaver)
[06:01] <seb128> janimo: just set DefaultSession=xfce4.desktop to gdm-cdd.conf
[06:02] <janimo> seb128: yes, thats' what I did
[06:02] <seb128> ok, so we are all good ;)
[06:02] <ogra> :)
[06:02] <janimo> except we still don;'t know how gnome gets away with just using default, and if default works why is there a need for gnome.desktop :)
[06:02] <janimo> but that;s your problem I guess ;)
[06:03] <seb128> starting gnome == running gnome-session basically
[06:04] <seb128> gnome-session doesn't everything for you
[06:04] <seb128> does everything
[06:04] <janimo> seb128: right
[06:04] <seb128> an default.desktop leads to have gnome-session started
[06:04] <seb128> which works just fine ;)
[06:04] <janimo> whereas startxfce4 is a shell wrapper around xfce4-session and other bits and is preferred over bare xfce4-session
[06:04] <janimo> so ok 
[06:05] <janimo> ok we're all fine then and only a bit confused :)
[06:05] <ogra> but thats a bug in xfce-session then
[06:05] <infinity> dappered: We're not shipping a 2.6.16 kernel, so "I don't know".
[06:05] <seb128> janimo: looks like ;)
[06:05] <janimo> ogra: nope, why hardcode xscreensaver starting in xfce4-session? it's better to have a startxfce4 script
[06:05] <ogra> if it would behave like gnome-session, all were fine ;)
[06:05] <infinity> dappered: That's also not a particularly relevant question for here.
[06:05] <dappered> infinity: right, cheers.
[06:06] <janimo> startxfce4 sets xmodmap, xresources etc
[06:06] <janimo> which I _think_ gnome session just calls from C
[06:07] <seb128> exact
[06:07] <wasabi__> Hey. So. Anybody still interesting in an ARM port?
[06:08] <infinity> wasabi__: Yes, though not necessarily RIGHT NOW. :)
[06:08] <wasabi__> I'm going to start compiling some packages for ARM, and see if I can get ubuntu running on my n770.
[06:08] <ogra> wasabi__, if you make it fit on my ipaq :)
[06:08] <dappered> wasabi__: would be a bit of a squeeze on an n770 ;)
[06:08] <wasabi__> Guess I'll just set up my own repository and start doing binary uploads.
[06:08] <wasabi__> dappered: Going to LVM it to my MMC.
[06:08] <wasabi__> Or split the partitions.
[06:08] <dappered> wasabi__: nice.. i'd love to see an ARM port personally.
[06:09] <infinity> wasabi__: It was meant to happen for dapper, IIRC, but it would seem not all the pieces fell into place.
[06:09] <wasabi__> Yeah. Little demand, too.
[06:09] <infinity> wasabi__: Which irritates me to no end, as I was looking forward to having some fast ARM gear in the DC.
[06:10] <wasabi__> So, you've done this before I assume. Is qemu a resonable path to take?
[06:10] <wasabi__> With nfsroot, etc.
[06:10] <wasabi__> Or should I try to cross compile .debs
[06:10] <wasabi__> I'm fond of the qemu route because I don't have to do much work. ;)
[06:11] <infinity> wasabi__: I'd just bootstrap it from debian/arm.
[06:11] <wasabi__> Yeah, that's hte plan.
[06:12] <wasabi__> My ARM device is too slow to compile on, though.
[06:12] <infinity> (Which is precisely what we'd do if we were doing an "official" port)
[06:12] <infinity> What's in the N770?
[06:12] <wasabi__> 133mhz omap I believe.
[06:12] <infinity> Oh, ouch.
[06:13] <wasabi__> And 64 mb of ram.
[06:13] <ogra> wasabi__, the guys from handhelds.org used to use a distcc cluster on a bunch of ipaqs 
[06:13] <wasabi__> Heh.
[06:13] <wasabi__> ogra: HAHAHA
[06:13] <infinity> I was going to say I'd consider anything >= a 200MHz StrongARM to be more than enough beef to bootstrap a port.
[06:13] <wasabi__> Well, qemu might  well suffice.
[06:13] <ogra> so just get a handfull of n770s  ;)
[06:13] <wasabi__> Haven't gotten into it yet though.
[06:13] <wasabi__> I did get a kernel booted in it.
[06:13] <sladen> wasabi__: 250Mhz chip in the 770
[06:13] <wasabi__> So, my dual core HT 4ghz p4 + qemu may well work. :0
[06:13] <wasabi__> 250?
[06:14] <wasabi__> hmm
[06:14] <infinity> That's enough oomph for native building, IMO.
[06:14] <infinity> The 64MB of RAM will be a bit harsh for C++ stuff, but should be fine for C.
[06:14] <infinity> (Who wants QT/KDE anyway?)
[06:15] <wasabi__> Heh.
[06:15] <wasabi__> Under Features it lists "java"
[06:15] <wasabi__> wonder what that means
[06:15] <wasabi__> (proc/cpuinfo)
[06:15] <dappered> ubuntu on this would be a bit of a lark: http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9112527929.html
[06:16] <dappered> lovely little ARM9 machine, and cheap 2.
[06:16] <ogra> wasabi__, well, thats needed for the openoffice port ;)
[06:16] <wasabi__> I wouldn't want to run OO on this.
[06:16] <wasabi__> abiword runs fine though
[06:16] <ogra> heh
[06:16] <ogra> i wasnt serious
[06:16] <wasabi__> Heh.
[06:17] <sladen> wasabi__: the Netbook/LX project built a complete desktop of Abiword/Gnumeric/Email/Firefox... all rebranded and fitted into 64MB of flash
[06:17] <wasabi__> Wow.
[06:17] <wasabi__> Yeah, the n770 has installs for abiword and gnumeric already. They run fine.
[06:17] <sladen> wasabi__: unfortunately I killed the screen on mine just before the Sydney conference
[06:18] <wasabi__> I'm just tired of the underlying distro.
[06:18] <wasabi__> Files in weird places. Can't just install stuff in /
[06:18] <dappered> sladen: that's what's needed to compete with M$'s office on WinCE.
[06:18] <sladen> dappered: go and find <wookey> on IRC for more details
[06:18] <dappered> sladen: cheers
[06:19] <sladen> that aside, it still boots and I can SSH to it as a 400Mhz + 256MB RAM ARM machine
[06:26] <iwj> seb128: That ubuntu-docs is in dapper now (well, as soon as it builds) and I'm following up with new {edu,k,x}ubuntu-*.
[06:26] <seb128> iwj: ah, nice
[06:27] <dappered> out bbl
[06:27] <ogra> iwj, ?
[06:30] <iwj> ogra: To support epiphany for DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslaction (and to add the `ku' locale).
[06:33] <ogra> iwj, ah, zhanks
[06:36] <iwj> seb128: Those should be there shortly.  Can you check that all 3 alternatives work with your new epiphany before you upload it ?
[06:37] <seb128> iwj: I'll do that and let you know
[06:37] <iwj> Right, thanks.
[06:38] <iwj> The packages are ubuntu-docs 6.05.3, edubuntu-artwork 0.1.0-24, kubuntu-docs 6.06-7, xubuntu-docs 6.05.2.
[06:38] <iwj> Err, so that's four alternatives, sorry.
[06:39] <Burgwork> wasabi__, take a peak at the maemo roadmap. They are planning full support for package management for 2.0
[06:39] <wasabi__> Sure. Still would rather just run Ubuntu.
[06:47] <infinity> mjg59_: hal is FTBFS all over.  Your patch doesn't apply.
[06:49] <mjg59_> infinity: Crap. It damn well did here.
[06:50] <infinity> mjg59_: You probably had it applied in the diff.gz, so the patch system can't apply it again.
[06:50] <infinity> (At a guess)
[06:50] <wasabi__> I have completely forgotten how to set this up.
[06:50] <mjg59_> infinity: Not with this build-system...
[06:52] <mjg59_> Crap. cdbs-edit-patch being dumb.
[06:53] <wasabi__> mount: RPC: Program not registered     
[06:53] <ogra> wasabi__, portmap
[06:54] <wasabi__> I know. It's running. Looks fine.
[06:54] <wasabi__> Doesn't have -i 127.0.0.1
[06:59] <wasabi__> Yeah, I'm off to a good start so far.
[07:04] <mvo> Mithrandir: is there a way to detect if casper is runing (or if the app is runing under casper)?
[07:06] <desrt> portmap's -i option is excessively brain damaged
[07:07] <ogra> desrt, it was necessary when we shipped with fam
[07:08] <desrt> right.. but instead of -i it should have like --localhost-only
[07:08] <desrt> since that's the only way that it's even vaguely useful
[07:09] <ogra> you probably want to bind portmap to eth2 or something 
[07:09] <desrt> (multiple -i options do not work and binding to an external interface prevents hosts on the local machine from working)
[07:09] <desrt> s/hosts/clients/
[07:10] <desrt> anyway.. it has tcpwrappers which lets me do a vague approximation of what i was aiming for :)
[07:10] <ogra> i could imagine people running an ltsp server would like to bind portmap only to the thin client interface
[07:10] <desrt> ya.  i say.
[07:10] <desrt> no love :(
[07:10] <ogra> and not open it for the rest of the world
[07:11] <desrt> for nfs, right?
[07:11] <desrt> anyway.. that's the entire point.  it won't work
[07:11] <desrt> if you use -i to bind to an internal interface then the nfs/mountd servers can't register themselves because portmap then refuses to accept connections from 127.0.0.1
[07:15] <ogra> hmm, i actually never tried that
[07:18] <desrt> ogra; i tried it and, as a result, developed my negative opinion about the -i option :)
[07:18] <ogra> its nothing to change now, but i'll put on my edgy totdo to look into it :)
[07:19] <desrt> it's gonna be pretty tough
[07:19] <wasabi__> Anyways. What's wrong with my RPC? :)
[07:19] <desrt> if you bind to all interfaces or only a single interface then you only have a single socke
[07:19] <ogra> changing a commandline option of portmap ? 
[07:19] <wasabi__> The error makes me think portmap isn't listening on *.*
[07:19] <desrt> if you bind to 2 interfaces then you have 2 separate sockets
[07:20] <desrt> the entire mainloop of the program needs to change to deal with the 2 separate listeners (since i'm fairly sure it's probably fairly special because of only having to deal with 1)
[07:22] <desrt> wasabi__; you removed the -i option and restarted?
[07:22] <wasabi__> Yup
[07:22] <desrt> wasabi__; did you restart all your portmap-using servers?
[07:23] <wasabi__> Believe so. nfs-common, nfs-kernel-server
[07:23] <desrt> check netstat -an | grep 111
[07:23] <desrt> see if portmap is really *.*
[07:23] <wasabi__> tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:111             0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN
[07:23] <desrt> er.. *.111 actually
[07:23] <desrt> did you setup tcpwrappers?
[07:24] <wasabi__> Well, I made sure it wasn't set up.
[07:24] <ogra> or firewall rules :)
[07:24] <wasabi__> no firewall
[07:24] <desrt> modify /etc/hosts.allow
[07:24] <desrt> and put
[07:24] <wasabi__> I put ALL: ALL in it
[07:24] <desrt> portmap: 1.2.3.
[07:24] <desrt> or whatever
[07:25] <wasabi__> local lan, private network.
[07:25] <desrt> did you restart tcpd
[07:25] <desrt> (chuckle)
[07:25] <wasabi__> heh. don't even have such a thing.
[07:26] <desrt> well, you do.
[07:26] <desrt> tcpd is what takes care of authenticating against hosts.{allow,deny}
[07:27] <desrt> it's just really poorly named which causes people to think that it's a server or something
[07:27] <desrt> on the networks/security course i just took there was a question "give an example of a server that doesn't listen on tcp or udp." and the answer in the answer key was "tcpd".  oi.
[07:29] <_ion> "the" answer?
[07:29] <_ion> That has, like, a million answers. :-)
[07:37] <Keybuk> ok, so bad things happen if one runs usplash from within X
[07:37] <mjg59_> Yes
[07:37] <ogra> lol
[07:37] <mjg59_> Don't do that
[07:37] <_ion> :-)
[07:38] <Keybuk> I found the best way to play was to ssh in from another box, and then just run it there
[07:43] <Rotund> Can someone here explain to me what app-install-data-commercial is going to be for (or hasn't there been an official announcement yet?)
[07:44] <Rotund> will it be for the certified software?
[07:45] <Mithrandir> mvo: not really, why?
[07:46] <mvo> Mithrandir: language-selector checks if you have all the required bits installed for fully working language support (i.e. firefox translations etc). this should not be done on the live-cd
[07:46] <Keybuk> so "don't run usplash within X" also means "don't run usplash while X is in the foreground"
[07:47] <mvo> Mithrandir: I hacked around it by checking if it is started as the LiveCD user
[07:47] <Mithrandir> mvo: ew.  Can't I rather set a gconf key or something?
[07:48] <Mithrandir> mvo: I absolutely prefer to keep all the hacks to make a live cd behave as a live cd in casper and not in random other chunks of code.
[07:49] <mvo> Mithrandir: it runs as root, a environment would be good I guess. or a commandline option "--with-verify", then the desktop file would have to be rewriten
[07:50] <Mithrandir> mvo: sed-ing .desktop files is fine with me.
[07:51] <iwj> I think the verb from sed is sed, which you can then conjugate as `sedding', `seddery', etc.
[07:52] <ogra> seduction ? :)
[07:52] <Keybuk> sedomy
[07:52] <dholbach> seddery sounds like celery to me
[07:53] <AlinuxOS> pitti?
[07:53] <iwj> *crunch*
[07:53] <Keybuk> dholbach: that would kinda work
[07:53] <Mithrandir> sed(1)ing, not sed(1)ding.
[07:53] <Keybuk> you know how it supposedly takes more calories to eat celery than are actually present in it
[07:53] <Mithrandir> I could also just celerise the .desktop file.
[07:53] <Keybuk> well it takes more time to figure out a sed script to do want you want than it would actually take to do it yourself
[07:54] <dholbach> Keybuk: haha - that's like "somebody thought he'd solve a problem with regular expressions, now he had two problems."
[07:56] <LinuxJones> After every upgrade of dbus or hal on Dapper the system needs a restart. What's up with that ?
[07:56] <mdke_> LinuxJones: define "needs"
[07:56] <AlinuxOS> mdke_, ping
[07:57] <mdke_> AlinuxOS: uh, yeh
[07:57] <Keybuk> LinuxJones: dbus sucks, let's go shopping!
[07:57] <AlinuxOS> mdke_, I've got a translation page for you... 
[07:57] <mdke_> AlinuxOS: mdke@ubuntu.com
[07:57] <AlinuxOS> In which format must sen you ?
[07:57] <Keybuk> (it needs you to log out, then restart the system bus, then log in again -- it's easier just to say "restart")
[07:57] <AlinuxOS> ok I'll do it.
[07:57] <AlinuxOS> just revision it again :)
[07:58] <LinuxJones> mdke_: the update noitifier indicates the system needs a restart.
[07:59] <mdke_> LinuxJones: ah. That's because the services need to be restarted before the update is complete.
[08:00] <Keybuk> . o O { and GNOME people want init to use dbus ... "hi, you've made an ever-so-tiny-minor-update to your system; REBOOT OR DIE!" }
[08:00] <_ion> Next up: making Linux handle internal message-passing using dbus.
[08:01] <mdke_> well, it's "reboot or don't get the upgrades until you do"
[08:01] <LinuxJones> mdke_: can't that be done as part of the upgrade process ?
[08:01] <mdke_> sounds quite sensible to me
[08:01] <mvo> Mithrandir: I added a "-n" option to language-selector that would be required now on the livecd
[08:01] <Burgwork> Keybuk, why exactly do the dbus people make us restart again
[08:01] <Burgwork> ?
[08:01] <iwj> Keybuk: Freaky, but we knew they were all insane.
[08:01] <Keybuk> Burgwork: because no application can handle the bus going away
[08:02] <mdke_> AlinuxOS: what's your locale again?
[08:02] <wasabi__> Why doesn't somebody fix that?
[08:02] <Keybuk> they invented this shiny IPC system, and then forgot that the proxy can vanish
[08:02] <Keybuk> wasabi: I don't think they realise it's broken
[08:02] <Mithrandir> mvo: ok, I'll play with this on Thursday.
[08:03] <wasabi__> Well, antoher thought is that dbus could be restarted.
[08:03] <wasabi__> But it's existing instance could stay.
[08:03] <netstar> Any ubuntu cups gurus eagerly seeking another bug(s)?
[08:03] <AlinuxOS> mdke_, my locale is ka_GE.UTF-8
[08:03] <Keybuk> wasabi: then you'd have apps being unable to communicate, because some are on the old bus and some are on the new
[08:03] <wasabi__> Ahh.
[08:03] <AlinuxOS> mdke_, Georgin (ka)
[08:03] <wasabi__> Have the new bus talk to the old. ;)
[08:03] <wasabi__> Not seriously suggesting that. ;0
[08:03] <tseng> netstar: they might look at them, if you open a bug on launchpad.net
[08:04] <mdke_> AlinuxOS: ah good.
[08:04] <wasabi__> This is one of the major reasons windows requires so many reboots though.
[08:04] <wasabi__> It should have some thought on whether we can prevent it.
[08:04] <wasabi__> ie COM components.
[08:04] <AlinuxOS> mdke_, last editing and then I'll send it to you.
[08:05] <mdke_> iwj: did you do that -docs upload already?
[08:06] <iwj> mdke: Yes.
[08:07] <mdke_> iwj: cool, thanks
[08:09] <mdke_> is there a clever way that I can get apt to give me a debdiff for the last update of a package?
[08:11] <mvo> Mithrandir: thanks, I added you to #37568
[08:16] <AlinuxOS> mdke_, done
[08:20] <mdke_> AlinuxOS: I've replied.
[08:21] <AlinuxOS> mdke_, ok I'll check.
[08:21] <mdke_> AlinuxOS: continue by email pls
[08:27] <_ion> linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 (2.6.15.10-1) dapper; urgency=low
[08:27] <_ion>   * Add madwifi-ng support
[08:27] <_ion> So madwifi-ng was added after all?
[08:30] <mjg59_> Yes
[08:30] <mjg59_> _ion: Only for cards that aren't supported by madwifi
[08:30] <_ion> Ok.
[08:33] <siretart> mjg59_: is it possible to force madwifi-ng over madwifi? if yes, how?
[08:35] <mjg59_> siretart: Blacklist madwifi, load madwifi-ng, echo foo >/sys/bus/pci/drivers/whatever/new_id
[08:35] <mjg59_> Unsupported, you're on your own, etc
[08:35] <siretart> mjg59_: sure. thanks!
[08:42] <bddebian> Howdy
[08:43] <imbrandon> heya
[08:43] <bddebian> Hi imbrandon
[08:44] <j^> does ubuntu work on the new macbooks(Intel GMA 950)?
[08:45] <Seveas> sort-of
[08:45] <Seveas> requiers some hackery
[08:46] <HiddenWolf> Seveas: damn, I was going to spend my holiday-money on one. :)
[08:46] <j^> i guess wifi will be the problem again
[08:48] <imbrandon> j^ : http://modular.math.washington.edu/macbook/  <-- a little about the hackery involved
[08:48] <j^> imbrandon thats the macbookpro not the macbook
[08:48] <imbrandon> should be the same , still efi bios
[08:50] <j^> booting is not the issue, its drivers for wifi, graphic card and suspend i am worried about
[08:50] <mjg59_> wifi should work
[08:51] <mjg59_> graphics will work under bootcamp, should be working under efi soon
[08:51] <mjg59_> suspend is possible with bootcamp, you're currently screwed under efi
[08:51] <mjg59_> If you want a small and light dual-core laptop to run Linux on, don't buy a macbook right now
[08:51] <j^> whats the alternative? X60?
[08:52] <thom> mjg59_: has anyone played with x60(s)?
[08:52] <mjg59_> thom: Mark's got one
[08:53] <mjg59_> Everything works except suspend, which may work with the next kernel
[08:53] <mjg59_> If not, I'm going to have to go down there and steal his until it works
[08:53] <thom> ah, should've guessed
[08:59] <mjg59_> Uh.
[09:00] <mjg59_> The new Sun license still seems to prohibit us from distributing any other Java implementation with it.
[09:01] <mjg59_> "                             you do not combine, configure or distribute the Software to run in conjunction with any
[09:01] <mjg59_> additional software that implements the same or similar functionality or APIs as the Software;
[09:01] <mjg59_> "
[09:03] <Burgwork> mjg59_, the faq appears to say that they are only trying to prevent jre/gcj hybrid type things
[09:03] <_ion> According to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/notification-daemon/0.3.4-0ubuntu6 that version has been successfully built and published, but http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/x11/notification-daemon says the version is still 0.3.4-0ubuntu5. I'd like to know what causes this delay.
[09:07] <AlinuxOS> mdke, done.
[09:07] <AlinuxOS> if something wrong, I'm here.
[09:07] <crimsun> _ion: packages.u.c doesn't sync every hour.
[09:09] <LaserJock> mjg59_: still no drivers for the x1600 for intel iMacs?
[09:10] <mjg59_> LaserJock: Free ones? No.
[09:12] <LaserJock> mjg59_: is there proprietary one that can be installed?
[09:12] <mjg59_> If you use the bios emulation mode, yes
[09:13] <LaserJock> hmm
[09:15] <mdke> AlinuxOS: pvt
[09:40] <ispiked> iwj: ping
[09:50] <ispiked> if anyone else who hacks on firefox is here speak up. :)
[09:51] <mdke> ispiked: only ian does, i think. Is it a problem that can be dealt with by a bug report? he's good with bugmail
[09:52] <ispiked> mdke: well, it's sort of urgent. basically, some guy is compiling firefox and getting an error, and I want to ask him about it (since he made the patch that's causing the error).
[09:53] <mdke> ispiked: if he doesn't reply here, then email him.
[09:53] <ispiked> mdke: ok. this guy is trying to compile patched dapper sources on breezy, so I don't know how much luck he's going to have. :P
[09:54] <mdke> ah
[10:04] <wasabi__> Cool. Gota Debian/ARM booted in qemu.
[10:04] <wasabi__> Now to start bootstrapping Ubuntu.
[10:05] <wasabi__> There a nice good binary apt repository manager someplace? Used to use dinstall-mini.
[10:05] <wasabi__> Still good? There any better replacements?
[10:05] <pygi> wasabi, urgh, #ubuntu please
[10:05] <wasabi__> I dunno. Porting Ubuntu to ARM sounds like a pretty good topic for this chan. ;)
[10:06] <pygi> argh, indeed :)
[10:10] <Kamion> wow, somebody translated ubiquity into Occitan
[10:10] <pygi> Kamion, :)
[10:11] <Kamion> I love it when people translate stuff of mine into languages I've never even heard of before
[10:11] <ogra> where does one speak Occitan ?
[10:11] <Kamion> Occitania ;-)
[10:11] <ogra> hehe
[10:12] <pygi> go figure :-P
[10:12] <mdke> Kamion: have you got a scots translation yet?
[10:12] <Kamion> seriously - it's a region of southern France, some speakers also in Italy and Spain
[10:12] <Kamion> mdke: no
[10:12] <mdke> it's all about scots
[10:12] <ogra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occitan :)
[10:12] <mdke> ooh, or maori
[10:15] <ogra> mdke, they speak maori in scottland ? 
[10:17] <tepsipakki> mjg59_: sun will release the source code for java, lets see what the license will be then ;)
[10:18] <tepsipakki> "It's not a question of whether we'll open source Java, now the question is how," Schwartz told delegates in his opening keynote at the tradeshow.
[10:19] <Kamion> ogra: no :-)
[10:22] <pygi> hey pitti 
[10:22] <mdke> so now java isn't a secret anymore, can someone reply to my mail and we can change the guides?
[10:23] <mdke> I'm not sure how it all works
[10:24] <ogra> mdke, not much changed, java has a new name and more recent version but is still in multiverse 
[10:25] <ogra> s/mane/packagename/
[10:25] <mjg59_> The source to java is already publically available
[10:26] <mdke> ogra: so what is the right package to install for just a browser plugin?
[10:26] <ogra> sun-java5-plugin
[10:26] <mjr> tepsipakki, pretty much the same's been in the air for years and years. And sure, we can get at Java's source. If we sell our souls.
[10:26] <metatag> mjg59_, yeah but for R&D stuffs only
[10:26] <ogra> i'm sure it pulls in all necessary deps
[10:27] <mdke> ogra: ok, and what's the difference between sun-java5-jre and sun-j2re1.5 
[10:27] <ogra> mdke, thats a doko question
[10:27] <Riddell> mdke: what's the problem with i18ning kubuntu docs?
[10:27] <mdke> ogra: right, that's why I emailed
[10:28] <Riddell> I can't the e-mail you sent me
[10:29] <AlinuxOS> pitti, ping
[10:30] <pitti> hi pygi, hey AlinuxOS 
[10:30] <tepsipakki> mjg59_: yep, we'll see when the words materialize
[10:30] <tepsipakki> _if_ they materialize
[10:31] <AlinuxOS> pitti, I saw your reply to https://launchpad.net/bugs/30671, how much time we have to manage new fonts?
[10:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30671 in language-pack-ka "ttf-bpg-georgian are GPL ttf fonts for language-pack-ka and GNOME interface." [Normal,Needs info]  
[10:32] <pitti> AlinuxOS: not so much, I'm afraid
[10:32] <pitti> AlinuxOS: basically, everything that isn't ready by the end of this week will have a very hard time
[10:33] <Kamion> by Thursday, really, given that the Canonical distro team members are all on holiday on Friday to rest up for the release push
[10:36] <Keybuk> David's got Friday off as well, so we're going to go do stuff :)
[10:37] <ogra> Kamion, there is still a weekend after friday :)
[10:37] <Keybuk> ogra: tsk, the point of the holiday is to rest before embarking on cd testing madness
[10:37] <Kamion> some of you may be masochists, but I intend to take the full long weekend's rest
[10:37] <wasabi__> Ya'll have any recommendations on a archive management tool?
[10:38] <wasabi__> dinstall-mini?
[10:38] <pitti> I'll finally catch up with some paperwork and my tax declaration, it's long overdue
[10:38] <ogra> Kamion, i'd love to ...
[10:38] <Keybuk> heh, I don't know about rest; I have a wedding to attend on Saturday
[10:38] <Keybuk> well, a "civil partnership"
[10:38] <Seveas> wasabi, I'd recommend falcon. But I am biased since I wrote that ;)
[10:39] <wasabi__> Good enough reason as any to be biased.
[10:39] <wasabi__> Not in the repositories?
[10:39] <pygi> Seveas, hehe :)
[10:39] <Seveas> not yet
[10:39] <ogra> Keybuk, your own ? (since everybody seems to marry secretly nowadays)
[10:39] <wasabi__> Is it feature complete? :)
[10:39] <wasabi__> Before I embark down this road.
[10:39] <pygi> yup :-P
[10:39] <Keybuk> ogra: heh, no, not my own
[10:39] <ogra> :)
[10:39] <Seveas> wasabi__, yes it is
[10:40] <Keybuk> in fact, David's comment when we were invited was "don't get any ideas" :)
[10:40] <ogra> haha
[10:40] <wasabi__> link?
[10:40] <Seveas> kaarsemaker.net/software
[10:40] <ogra> Keybuk, he should talk to my GF she actually *is* getting ideas recently
[10:40] <Seveas> (example instance: http://seveas.ubuntuinux.nl
[10:41] <wasabi__> Supports an incoming directory, etc?
[10:41] <Seveas> no
[10:41] <Seveas> those are things I didn't want :0
[10:41] <wasabi__> Heh.
[10:41] <wasabi__> dinstall-mini it is then. ;)
[10:41] <Seveas> if you want that: mini-dinstall is quite good iirc
[10:41] <Seveas> I hate fiddling with incoming/
[10:42] <_ion> Falcon is really easy to use. I hope it gets support for multiple architectures soon. :-)
[10:42] <Seveas> _ion, give me a mac or amd64 and I'll have a reason to build it 
[10:43] <_ion> seveas: :-)
[11:15] <ogra> Riddell, do you have the ltsp packages in ship on kubuntu ? 
[11:16] <Riddell> ltsp-server-standalone and ltsp-client seem to be there
[11:17] <ogra> please add ldm as well (only ~80k) it was a dependency of ltsp-client before but that changed to ldm|gdm|x-display-manager ... since gdm is already on the CD ltsp builds fail to install ldm then
[11:18] <ogra> you can merge rev 655 from the ubuntu seeds once the push is done ....
[11:18] <ogra> can only be a matter of hours :)
[11:18] <ogra> yay paramiko
[11:19] <mdke> ogra: it's all about getting married
[11:19] <mdke> (reading scrollback)
[11:19] <ogra> mdke, heh, yeah
[11:33] <jcole> where did xnest go
[11:35] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/bazaar/dapper$ apt-cache madison xnest
[11:35] <ogra>      xnest | 1:1.0.2-0ubuntu10 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
[11:35] <ogra> where it always was ?
[11:35] <jcole> no icon anymore in gnome
[11:35] <ogra> not in alacarte ?
[11:35] <jcole> "Login in Nested Window"
[11:36] <ogra> new apps dont show up by default anymore
[11:36] <ogra> you need to enable them
[11:36] <Amaranth> no, that's not it
[11:36] <Amaranth> unless that's a very recent change
[11:36] <Amaranth> some apps are installed but hidden because most people have no use for them
[11:37] <ogra> wasnt that part of the menu simplification spec ?
[11:37] <ogra> yeah, right, not all new apps then 
[11:37] <ogra> i didnt install any yet that showed up by default
[11:38] <jcole> "killall gnome-panel" made it show up under System Tools
[11:38] <mdke> ouch
[11:40] <wasabi__> Cool. Debian/ARM booted in qemu.
[11:40] <wasabi__> And now the porting effort begins!
[11:41] <jcole> wasabi__: embedded ubuntu?
[11:42] <wasabi__> Well, no. Just an ARM port.
[11:42] <wasabi__> Making it small is a distinct effort. ;)
[11:42] <wasabi__> But having it booting on the device is a first step to that.
[11:56] <zul> heylo
[11:59] <wasabi__> Woh. this sid install is using DiffIndex
[11:59] <wasabi__> This new stuff?
[12:00] <dholbach> good night