[12:02] <omeg> Just found three pixels that I want gone! Again uploading yet another version.
[12:03] <infinity> Go to bed. :)
[12:03] <sladen> go for it!
 infinity: whack it up </whisper>
[12:04] <infinity> That sounds dirty.
[12:04] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/newsuggestion_0_8_SCALED_BAR_ALT.png
[12:05] <infinity> omeg: If it needs tweaking after I upload it, we can do that.  GO TO BED.  :)
[12:05] <omeg> Just to be sure, I confirmed the links and removed the non _ALT image that was old.
[12:06] <omeg> Okay, see you tomorrow then...
[12:06] <omeg> :)
[12:06] <omeg> Later
[12:06] <sladen> r.
[12:07] <Keybuk> that splash is pretty
[12:07] <Keybuk> infinity: going to upload it?
[12:07] <infinity> Keybuk: That's the plan, yes.  I'll do it after I do some more Real Work.
[12:08] <infinity> Need to reindex it and fiddle with this other font I have lying here.
[12:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh, good catch on openssh
[12:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: I'll get that fixed before RC freeze now, thanks a lot
[12:08] <Keybuk> Kamion: it's always that way isn't it... you stare and stare and can't figure it
[12:08] <Burgwork> infinity, are you aware of this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/DapperPropositions
[12:08] <Keybuk> and sometimes someone else goes "look, it's that!" :p
[12:08] <infinity> Burgwork: Yes.
[12:08] <Burgwork> the art work team has been doing a lot of bikesheddinga bout it, but it would look really bad if we ignored what they said
[12:08] <infinity> Kamion: What was wrong with openssh?
[12:09] <infinity> Burgwork: I'm not ignoring them, I'm just uploading something. :)
[12:09] <Kamion> infinity: the init script's restart action did sshd -t to check the config before creating /var/run/sshd
[12:09] <infinity> ogra: The "just a logo" ones don't look as good with a giant text box under them.
[12:09] <infinity> ogra: The logo+brand ones look more balanced.
[12:10] <ogra> infinity, yeah, i can imagine ... 
[12:10] <infinity> Kamion: Whoops.
[12:10] <ogra> but with a non bold font they could work
[12:10] <sladen> ogra: you've got your own diveritive to play with!  :-P
[12:10] <ogra> sladen, not really, i had no choice about the artwork this time
[12:10] <infinity> ogra: Anyhow, I did ask him to make edu,ku,xu versions of the one we were just refining here.
[12:10] <sladen> ogra: that one does look particular good for edubuntu though.  It's more interesting because it's not-just-a-circle
[12:10] <Kamion> and of course one of the things sshd -t checks is that the privsep dir is there ...
[12:11] <ogra> sladen, yep, but still, i'll have to use a variation of the ubuntu splash
[12:11] <infinity> ogra: Well, this, in the right colours, with the right logo won't offend you, will it? http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/newsuggestion_0_8_SCALED_BAR_ALT.png
[12:12] <ogra> it basically looks the same as the old one 
[12:12] <infinity> ogra: Cause I think, unless ubuntu-art decides there's something amazingly better than something else gets forced on me, we'll ship with something like this.
[12:12] <infinity> ogra: Yeah, but better dithering, less crappy scaling, and shiny new colours. :)
[12:12] <ogra> so we could even stay with that in edubuntu
[12:13] <ogra> i like the current gold of the edubuntu one ...
[12:13] <ogra> but less dithering would be nice
[12:13] <infinity> And somethat that wasn't scaled by me in 5 seconds in a fit of rage at 3am.
[12:14] <infinity> This guy actually hand-tweaked it after scaling it, so it looks less ass. :)
[12:14] <ogra> yep, his work is awesome
[12:14] <infinity> In fact, when the scaling is hand-tweaked, it even looks pretty good "squished" at the wrong aspect ratio.
[12:15] <infinity> Which is good, cause then I don't think anyone will be begging us at the 0-hour to include 4x3 artwork and aspect ratio auto-selection in usplash.
[12:15] <ogra> the idea with th elittle highlights is also nice http://www.bootsplash.org/test7a.png
[12:15] <infinity> Yeah, kwwii's were at the top of my list too.
[12:15] <infinity> The fact that omeg has actually talked to me about it was helpful, though.
[12:16] <ogra> kwwii was in #edubuntu twice now and talked to me ...
[12:16] <infinity> Not that I'm playing favourites or anything, but after hearing N people tell me that it's "purely an artwork thing, and has no technical relevance", I was near homicidal.
[12:17] <ogra> but since we're bound to the ubuntu decision i dont really care as long as i dont end up with a pastel pink/yellow logo
[12:17] <infinity> ogra: Yeah, I know he's talked to you and to Riddell... So he's not pure evil. :)
[12:17] <infinity> Anyhow, I'll upload this today, see if it fans the flames a bit, and if a Power That Is decides to override my decision, so be it.
[12:17] <infinity> I'm happy with this, though, and sick of the whole topic.
[12:17] <ogra> that one really scares me (colorwise) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/DapperPropositions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=v550_eduratio.png
[12:18] <infinity> Makes your logo look like a little naked dude swimming in a pool of urine.
[12:18] <ogra> lol
[12:18] <Keybuk> infinity: knowing edubuntu, it was the logo that weed in the pool
[12:18] <infinity> Other than that, it's nice.
[12:19] <Keybuk> that's why it's putting it's hand up
[12:19] <infinity> I thought it was drowning.
[12:19] <Keybuk> "Misssss, I neeeeed to goooo!  Oh, too late"
[12:19] <ogra> it would fit the nicname of our wallpaper the community found
[12:19] <infinity> And flailing.
[12:19] <Kamion> infinity: (kwwii was at the UI sprint in London)
[12:19] <Kamion> (seemed like a decent guy)
[12:19] <infinity> Kamion: *nod*... I like his stuff too... But I also like omeg's, so what can I say? :)
[12:20] <infinity> I'll upload one, and ubuntu-art can give me lashings after the fact.
[12:20] <infinity> If dholbach's 3000 icon uploads are anything to go by, ubuntu-art is incapable of making a decision and having it stick.
[12:20] <mdke> write "This is the final artwork" on it
[12:20] <sladen> hahaha
[12:20] <ogra> i actually prefer omeg's his samples on the wiki look most professional
[12:21] <infinity> ogra: Well, I get the feeling that kwwii's were more mockups with an implied "I can polish these if you like them", while omeg tried to deliver polish on the first go.
[12:21] <Keybuk> mdke: that would be almost worth it for a 24 joke <g>
[12:21] <mdke> or "Please let me get back to samba"
[12:21] <infinity> ogra: So comparing them might not be entirely fair.  (On the other hand, with a release around the corner, I'm happy with stuff that's polished NOW)
[12:22] <ogra> infinity, might be, but the "interim" one from kwwii could at least have been slightly polished
[12:22] <infinity> mdke: "This *is* the final artwork, because I have real bugs to fix and none of *you* have main upload rights, nyah nyah"?
[12:22] <Keybuk> before everyone floods #launchpad ... it just broke
[12:22] <mdke> infinity: would that fit? maybe in small letters
[12:22] <ogra> Keybuk, nope
[12:22] <mjg59_> infinity: Dude, upload early, break your mail feed
[12:22] <infinity> Keybuk: They announced it earlier.  Down for ~30 mins.
 launchpad going down in ~10 minutes for 30 minutes
[12:23] <Keybuk> infinity: shouldn't be down for another 10 mins or so
[12:23] <Keybuk> it's very down now though :)
[12:23] <infinity> 15:55 < lifeless> launchpad going down in ~10 minutes for 30 minutes
[12:23] <infinity> It's 16:23 now.
[12:23] <infinity> I'd say it's down late. :)
[12:24] <Keybuk> heh, the message on the server was wrong then
[12:24] <ogra> infinity, you missed the "15:56 * Keybuk (n=scott@quest.netsplit.com) has joined ..."
[12:24] <ogra> ;)
[12:24] <infinity> mdke: It would fit, but I'm not in the mood to antogonize anyone.  It's just cathartic to pretend I do.
[12:24] <infinity> s/do/would/
[12:41] <wasabi> Heh. Nice. texinfo fails to compile because of a missing /dev/fd0 node.
[12:43] <Keybuk> wasabi: W.T.F.
[12:44] <Keybuk> you sure it's not /dev/fd/0 ? :)
[12:44] <wasabi> haha eitherway
[12:44] <Keybuk> /dev/fd0 != /dev/fd/0
[12:44] <wasabi> oh? hmm
[12:44] <wasabi> hmm i knew that
[12:44] <Keybuk> /dev/fd/0 is stdout ;P
[12:44] <wasabi> Recompiling, will tell you in a sec.
[12:44] <Keybuk> uh, stdin
[12:45] <wasabi> Well, /dev/fd/ is quite present.
[12:45] <Keybuk> yeah, should be a symlink to /proc/self/fd
[12:45] <Kamion> is /proc mounted?
[12:45] <wasabi> Yup.
[12:45] <Kamion> is there a process running? :-)
[12:45] <wasabi> I'm in qemu. Compiling for arm. ;)
[12:45] <wasabi> If that gives you a hint. heh.
[12:45] <Keybuk> could be that whatever is running texinfo's build actually closes stdin
[12:46] <Keybuk> I've seen very very stupid programs that do that
[12:46] <Keybuk> (yes, zope, I mean you)
[12:49] <wasabi> Interesting and completely unrelated error that time.
[12:49] <wasabi> It can't clean itself properly. =(
[01:39] <TheMuso> c
[02:46] <jcole> did http://ubuntuforums.org take a crap
[02:47] <jcole> ah, thre it goes
[03:06] <Kamion> BenC: ping, kernel?
[03:15] <Keybuk> what did you do to the kernel? :p
[03:22] <Kamion> Keybuk: I'm more wondering when BenC is going to do his promised stuff to the kernel
[03:23] <Kamion> so I know whether or not I can go to bed soon
[03:23] <infinity> Kamion: Just go to bed.  I'm up for the long haul at this point.
[03:23] <infinity> Kamion: 11:23 local now, way too late to go back on the whole "not sleeping" thing.
[03:24] <tritium> I don't suppose any patches for iMac G5 thermal mgmt from 2.6.16 made it into the kernel, did they?
[03:24] <Kamion> I still need to mail all those yaboot bugs with Ian's test images
[03:40] <jcole> is there an easy way to recompile all kernels (686,k7,server,etc.) with restricted modules, kernel header, kernel source, etc. packages? all i want to do is add one little kernel option
[03:40] <jcole> this is driving me nuts
[03:41] <jcole> and if possible, add -CUSTOM (or whatever) to all related packages 
[03:41] <Keybuk> no easy way, no
[03:41] <Keybuk> you can do the linux-* using make-kpkg and linux-source-2.6.15
[03:41] <Keybuk> you have to do restricted-modules separately though
[03:44] <jcole> Keybuk: i need to supply a kernel that has the gawd forsaken REGPARM enabled and related packages... i created a custom kernel, but i keep running into stupid stuff like creating modules for vmwareplayer...
[03:45] <jcole> Keybuk: there's got to be an easier way than all this mayhem
[03:45] <jcole> Keybuk: it's just too much hassle to maintain
[03:45] <Keybuk> it's not that tricky
[03:45] <Keybuk> there's just a lot of it
[03:47] <jcole> Keybuk: "end users don't want to recompile kernels" is what i'm being told so i'm trying to provide them
[03:48] <jcole> Keybuk: you'd think there would be something on the wiki for this kind of thing... all i see is simple, make-kpkg, dpkg-buildpackage, make menuconfig, etc. type stuff
[03:49] <Keybuk> that's what there is
[03:49] <Keybuk> it really isn't that hard
[03:49] <jcole> Keybuk: apt-get source linux-image-`uname -r` linux-restricted-modules-`uname -r`
[03:49] <Keybuk> there's plenty of docs on the wiki
[03:50] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCompileHowto
[03:50] <TheMuso> jcole: I have to rebuild my own kernels because I need to include a kernel screen reader. What I do, is apt-get source linux-source-2.6.15, patch in the screen reader, make a minor changelog entry, enough so that the newer kernels override my one so I don't miss any important updates, and rebuild. It builds all kernel packages.
[03:50] <TheMuso> Mind you I don't have to build restricted-modules as they are fine for my needs, but anyway.
[03:51] <jcole> TheMuso: ya, i need to provide that for end users
[03:51] <jcole> TheMuso: do you create source and header packages
[03:52] <TheMuso> jcole: As I said above, I use apt-get source and get the source package that creates all kernels, headers, and source package.
[03:52] <TheMuso> And docs.
[03:54] <jcole> Keybuk: i already create a custom kernel for myself with this REGPARM enabled... it's just that i've got people asking for other arches, for the server kernel, restricted modules for their wifi/etc. cards, yada yada
[03:54] <infinity> jcole: dpkg-buildpackage in the linux-source-2.6.15 source tree (note: apt-get source linux-source-2.6.15, *not* apt-get install linux-source-2.6.15) builds everything.
[03:56] <jcole> infinity: linux-source-2.6.15 will build all arches and variations (server,bigiron)?
[03:57] <infinity> jcole: Yes.  We build all the kernels from one source package.
[03:57] <infinity> jcole: It would be unmaintainable if we didn't.
[03:57] <jcole> infinity: YOU are a life saver
[03:57] <infinity> jcole: And linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 builds all the LRM packages for all the kernels.
[03:57] <jcole> infinity: i knew there had to be some easy way!
[03:57] <Kamion> builds all subarches. To build all arches (i386, powerpc, amd64, etc.), you need to dpkg-buildpackage it once on each architecture you care about
[03:57] <infinity> jcole: (You just need all the headers packages installed from your kernel build, and need to make sure the ABI in debian/rules matches the ABI of your current kernel build)
[03:58] <Kamion> s/subarches/flavours/ I guess
[03:58] <infinity> Kamion: Well, yeah, I was hoping he'd assume that anyway. :)
[03:58] <jcole> Kamion: gotcha
[04:00] <Keybuk> there are 7,000 duplicate bugs :p
[04:01] <jcole> infinity: can i append something to them so they don't conflict with the stock kernels?
[04:01] <infinity> jcole: Not without mangling a fair number of files in debian/*
[04:02] <infinity> jcole: You could force the ABI to something unusually high, though, I guess.
[04:02] <jcole> infinity: for example, for tora with oracle support we have a tora-oracle
[04:02] <infinity> jcole: Since we're at -22- right now, you could start your ABI count at -100- and assume we'll never get there.
[04:02] <jcole> infinity: gotcha
[04:03] <jcole> infinity: that's probably the easiest hack
[04:03] <infinity> Easier than renaming all the packages, yes.
[04:04] <infinity> Though I don't recall all the places where the ABI is referenced, it may not even be important that it's an integer, so you could replace it with a string...
[04:04] <infinity> Having it be something you can increment is good, though, in case you need to roll new packages with a broken ABI.
[04:04] <jcole> infinity: but if you guys come out with -23- and i'm already providing a -100- they will never upgrade, right?
[04:04] <jcole> infinity: exactly
[04:05] <infinity> Upgrades never happen automatically anyway, unless you have the metapackages from linux-meta installed.
[04:05] <infinity> If you're using custom kernels, you obviously don't want our metapackages (which force our kernels down your throat)
[04:05] <jcole> infinity: i could go with -122- -123- etc. i guess
[04:05] <jcole> infinity: right
[04:06] <infinity> You can, of course, grab the source for linux-meta as well, and adjust it for your ABI versions, and also provide metapackages to keep upgrades working with your stuff.
[04:07] <jcole> infinity: i'll do that
[04:08] <jcole> infinity: the kernel select in the debian installer selects the meta
[04:08] <infinity> Yeah, as it should.
[04:08] <infinity> We'd have no way to get security upgrades to users otherwise.
[04:09] <infinity> Anyhow, one more day before freeze, so I'll cut this short and wish you luck.
[04:09] <infinity> If you get stuck on something weird in our build system and want guidance later, I recommend holding off for a while, since we're all a bit busy right now.
[04:09] <infinity> (My excuse is that I'm refuelling with some lunch at the moment)
[04:10] <jcole> infinity: ok, thank you so much for the info, i leave you guys be
[04:24] <bddebian> Heya folks
[04:43] <nictuku> where does the i18n .mo files for the "serverguide" goes in the lang package? 
[04:52] <Keybuk> weird
[04:52] <Keybuk> I'm missing exactly 400 bugs
[04:57] <bddebian> Missing?
[04:58] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/reports/main.html
[04:58] <Keybuk> ^ vaguely accurate
[04:58] <bddebian> Ah
[05:01] <infinity> Keybuk: Now, can we get it sorted by severity? :)
[05:01] <Keybuk> infinity: yeah, yeah, in a minute
[05:01] <Keybuk> let me finish fiddling
[05:02] <infinity> Keybuk: Bonus points for sorting stuff with an Ubuntu-6.06 milestone at the very top.
[05:02] <infinity> Keybuk: And a pony.
[05:02] <infinity> Uh oh.  Starting to fade and I still have 11 hours to go.
[05:02] <infinity> This calls for drastic sugar intake.
[05:03] <Keybuk> I find walking outside for a bit helps
[05:03] <Keybuk> assuming it's sunny
[05:03] <infinity> That was part of the plan, since all the sugar is out there <waves vaguely outside>
[05:03] <Keybuk> anyone remember how to do inverse ordering in sql?
[05:03] <infinity> ORDER BY field ASC
[05:04] <infinity> or DESC
[05:04] <infinity> I can never remember which is which way.
[05:05] <Keybuk> ah yes
[05:10] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/reports/main.html
[05:10] <Keybuk> ^ ok, that's sorted
[05:11] <Keybuk> milestone isn't trivial :(
[05:22] <bddebian> >8500 :-(
[05:23] <infinity> We sure have developed a lot of bug reporting users over the last 6 months...
[05:24] <Keybuk> the amazing thing is compare it to the universe number
[05:24] <Keybuk> bddebian: it's only 6986
[05:24] <Keybuk> it goes down a lot if you remember that Debian != Ubuntu :p
[05:24] <infinity> Keybuk: Uhh, dude.  Pulling direct from the DB means you're showing private bugs.
[05:24] <infinity> Keybuk: You might want to exclude those.
[05:24] <Keybuk> infinity: I think I'm excluding those, no?
[05:25] <infinity> 35821 is private.
[05:25] <infinity> Second critical bug on your list.
[05:25] <Keybuk> hmm
[05:25] <Keybuk> oh, duh, got the logic backwards
[05:25] <infinity> (It's also a worthless bug report, but that's not the point)
[05:26] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/reports/notforwarded.html
[05:26] <Keybuk> ^ exactly 6000
[05:26] <Keybuk> freaky
[05:27] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/reports/unattached.html
[05:27] <Keybuk> *giggle*
[05:27] <Keybuk> look at #15368, about half way down the page
[05:27] <infinity> Keybuk: Cute.
[05:28] <infinity> Need some sort of html entity escaping in your output. :)
[05:28] <Keybuk> bah, it's only a quick script
[05:28] <infinity> :)
[05:49] <Keybuk> infinity: remind me about how the ship seed works with the Live CD ?
[05:52] <infinity> Keybuk: They don't.
[05:53] <Keybuk> I see, so we don't include it there?
[05:53] <infinity> Keybuk: LiveCD is just desbootstrap+ubuntu-base+ubuntu-desktop+ubuntu-live
[05:53] <infinity> ship is for the install CD.
[05:54] <Keybuk> that's what I thought
[05:54] <Keybuk> which makes it kinda pointless now, no?
[05:54] <Keybuk> given Live is the installer
[05:59] <Keybuk> infinity: did we decide on the new usplash artwork?
[06:00] <Keybuk> I was just grabbing the source for something else, I can upload it now if it's picked
[06:01] <Keybuk> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/newsuggestion_0_8_SCALED_BAR_ALT.png
[06:01] <Keybuk> ?
[06:01] <infinity> yeah, but I was going to tweak it a bit first.
[06:01] <Keybuk> what were you going to tweak?
[06:02] <infinity> The palette, for one. :)
[06:02] <infinity> And I was going to play with another font, but that's not important.
[06:02] <infinity> If you want to test it locally and upload, be my guest.  I have a full plate anyway.
[06:02] <Keybuk> heh
[06:02] <Keybuk> I'm continually unsure about changing font at this time
[06:02] <infinity> You'll definitely need to reorder the palette, though.
[06:03] <Keybuk> because it'll mean we'll have to go through all the messages and cut them to fit again :p
[06:03] <Keybuk> indeed
[06:03] <infinity> Yeah, I think it's too late to change the font, I just wanted to play.
[06:03] <infinity> Anyhow, I should do something about that fresh air and lunch I've been promising myself.
[06:03] <infinity> Back in a while.
[06:04] <Keybuk> okies
[06:12] <JunlgeB> hey
[06:13] <sneex> greetings
[06:13] <sneex> Regarding "apt-cache policy apache2" -- is there a way to get at the config.layout and buildconf for that -- or is it included in the source download?  I ask because I wish to build Apache 2.2.2 but using Ubuntu's specifics.
[06:17] <infinity> sneex: The apache2.2 packaging is hosted at svn.debian.org (which appears to be currently unreachable)... This also really isn't the best time or place to be asking.
[06:18] <sneex> =( Is there a Ubuntu PPC chan?
[06:20] <sneex> OK, ty
[06:41] <Keybuk> right, let's try it with the new font too
[06:47] <Keybuk> as I feared, that font is wayyy too big
[06:54] <Keybuk> oh, wow
[06:54] <Keybuk> I managed to run a test usplash during cron.daily
[06:54] <Keybuk> and got messages from cups restarting <g>
[06:58] <infinity> haha.  Awesome.
[06:59] <Keybuk> oh wow
[06:59] <Keybuk> this package uses quilt to apply patches
[07:22] <TheMuso> /c/
[07:42] <Keybuk> Good morning, Germany!
[07:42] <Treenaks> Germany? Where? :)
[07:43] <Treenaks> ooh, it's going to be officially Bug Free tomorrow?
[07:43] <Treenaks> nice
[07:43] <Keybuk> officially distro team free tomorrow
[07:43] <Keybuk> anybody caught working has to buy everyone cocktails at UFK
[07:44] <pitti> Good morning
[07:45] <pygi> mornin' pitti 
[07:47] <pitti> so, let's get out my arsenal for bug killing and let's go hunting once more
[07:51] <Keybuk> pitti: I made a custom bug-report-o-matic :)
[07:51] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/reports/
[07:51] <jsgotangco> hey that's neat
[07:52] <pitti> Keybuk: the purpose of that is to sort out bugs that are forwarded upstream?
[07:54] <Keybuk> pitti: that was mdz's original request, yes
[07:54] <Keybuk> cf. notforwarded.html
[07:54] <Keybuk> I made reports of just main bugs too
[07:54] <Keybuk> as well as just restricted, etc.
[07:55] <Burgundavia> Keybuk, you had better thwack the LP devs over the head with those reports, as they look useful for other people as well
[07:59] <infinity> Keybuk: "Don't hard-code the palette index of the scrolling text."?
[08:00] <infinity> Keybuk: So now it just picks a random colour and prays?
[08:00] <Keybuk> heh
[08:00] <Keybuk> I meant that instead of hiding an 8 somewhere in the code, there's a #define for it <g>
[08:00] <Keybuk> OBVIOUSLY :D
[08:01] <Keybuk> just because _you_ have sugar
[08:01] <infinity> Oh, picky, picky. :)
[08:02] <Keybuk> I was quite impressed with my palette switching skills
[08:02] <Keybuk> I'm sure there was a more efficient way of doing it though :p
[08:02] <infinity> Let me guess, you copy and pasted all the colors to a test file, then reordered the palette? :)
[08:02] <infinity> s/test/text/
[08:03] <Keybuk> I wrote down all the colours
[08:03] <infinity> Right, same thing. :)
[08:03] <Keybuk> then I changed them all to 00 thru ff in the order I wanted them to be in
[08:03] <Keybuk> then I went rgb/indexed on it, so gimp sorted the palette
[08:03] <Keybuk> then I changed them back
[08:03] <infinity> Heh.
[08:04] <infinity> I really wish it would just let you drag and drop them around to reorder them.
[08:04] <Keybuk> aye, agree
[08:04] <infinity> But that would be, y'know, easy.
[08:04] <infinity> And easy isn't the GIMP's forte.
[08:04] <Keybuk> or that someone had thought ahead and made the colour indexes exported variables in the artwork .so file
[08:04] <Keybuk> so each image could have different ones :p
[08:04] <infinity> Making an interface worse than Photoshop's was a challenge, but they overcome that challenge and prevailed!
[08:05] <infinity> I wish the people who work on Inkscape would give them GIMP some love.
[08:05] <infinity> Inkscape is a joy to work with.
[08:05] <Keybuk> I want to know what's up with this version of the gimp, and all of it's docking insanity
[08:05] <Keybuk> yeah, I like inkscape
[08:06] <Keybuk> heh @ #38836
[08:06] <Keybuk> bug 38836
[08:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38836 in sane-backends "my scanner don't work" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38836
[08:06] <Keybuk> GREAT TITLE!
[08:06] <kagou> hi
[08:07] <infinity> My computer done gone broked itself.
[08:08] <infinity> Keybuk: So, if you're doing the artwork uploads for usplash, does that mean you're happy to take ownership of the flaming bikeshed?
[08:08] <infinity> Keybuk: Cause I'm happy to give it to you.
[08:08] <Keybuk> infinity: it seems like it might be related to something I might want to be doing in edgy
[08:09] <Keybuk> so I guess it might make some sense for me to be the one ignoring the bugs on it
[08:09] <infinity> I doubt you'll be as good at ignoring them as I, but we all have to have at least one hero to worship, don't we.
[08:09] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: whimy do you think https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/41980 is a casper bug?
[08:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41980 in casper "Fail, hardware detection in Acer 351TEV" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[08:09] <Keybuk> yeah, I'm constantly in awe at initramfs-tools
[08:09] <Mithrandir> s/im//
[08:10] <Keybuk> it's bug list is only surpassed by acpi-support
[08:10] <infinity> Keybuk: The great thing about initramfs-tools is that about half those bugs are closed in the last 4 or 5 uploads, I just haven't closed them yet.
[08:10] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: uh, well, it wasn't a bug against a meta package ;)
[08:10] <Keybuk> I sometimes just bat bugs at a package I know someone who cares is subscribed to
[08:10] <infinity> Keybuk: Bug tracking systems and I don't get along when I'm deep in hack mode.  I'll go back and clean up later tonight.
[08:10] <Keybuk> that one looked like it was something in your "find the CD-ROM code" though
[08:10] <Keybuk> infinity: I tend to do the same
[08:10] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/kde_newsuggestion_0_32.png
[08:10] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: uh, hardware detection is past initramfs, so no.
[08:11] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/kde_newsuggestion_0_8_SCALED_BAR.png
[08:11] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: "Detecting CD-ROM" isn't though, no?
[08:11] <infinity> omeg: Good morning, omeg. :)
[08:11] <Keybuk> I thought that was the bit in the initramfs where it mounted it
[08:11] <Keybuk> omeg: how are your palette munging skills? :p
[08:11] <infinity> Keybuk: So, you want to co-ordinate with Riddell and ogra to get derivative splashes uploaded and complete the coup? :)
[08:11] <Keybuk> omeg: oh, btw, I found out today that the "Pa's wijze" bit is a different colour to the "ok" :)
[08:11] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: : tfheen@xoog /tmp/casper-1.53 > grep -ri "detecting cd-rom" .
[08:11] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog /tmp/casper-1.53 >
[08:12] <Keybuk> heh
[08:12] <infinity> omeg: Is there any hope of making the Xubuntu logo look reasonable with that limited resolution and palette, do you think?
[08:12] <infinity> omeg: Or is it time for someone to help them rebrand to something with more basic shapes, on the double? :)
[08:12] <Keybuk> infinity: co-ordinate?  what's that? :p
[08:13] <infinity> Keybuk: It's when you say "I'm uploading your package now, you have 5 minutes to yell at me to stop."
[08:13] <Keybuk> infinity: ah, I met Lamont too early
[08:13] <Keybuk> I'm more "oh, was that your package I just uploaded?"
[08:14] <omeg> infinity: I think it's possible. It'd be heavily anti-aliased, but I think you might be able to tell it's a mouse. I could just make the Xubuntu one a little bigger if necessary.
[08:14] <Keybuk> oh, it's a mouse?!
[08:14] <Keybuk> I thought it was a hamster
[08:14] <infinity> omeg: Would be awesome if you could.
[08:14] <omeg> It's a hamster?
[08:14] <infinity> Keybuk: See xfce.org.  Their logo is a bit more legible.
[08:14] <omeg> Keybuk: "Pa's wijze" has a different color? That's strange. Maybe I messed up with one of the darkening layers... let me check.
[08:14] <Mithrandir> it's a catmousedog, I think.
[08:15] <infinity> omeg: No, he means it has a different palette location assigned in usplash.
[08:15] <Keybuk> 8 :)
[08:15] <omeg> Oh, so we need to give "ok" a different color
[08:15] <Keybuk> omeg: on the other splash, I gave "ok" that colour and the text itself a darker colour
[08:15] <infinity> Keybuk: Except that I thought I jimmied it to make them both the same colour, because the differeing colours were irritating..
[08:15] <infinity> Keybuk: Perhaps I only dreamed of doing so.
[08:15] <Keybuk> co-incidentally, the colour that ended up at palette index 8 after I sorted them
[08:17] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/newsuggestion_0_8_SCALED_BAR_ALT.png
[08:17] <omeg> Is this better?
[08:17] <infinity> omeg: He already uploaded. :)
[08:18] <omeg> Uploaded?
[08:18] <infinity> Yeah.  usplash with your artwork.  Uploaded to the archive.
[08:19] <infinity> Over half an hour ago now.
[08:19] <omeg> Wow, really? Is that final?
[08:19] <infinity> It is if no one complains. :)
[08:19] <infinity> If you get us the other 3 derivatives and we shove those in, we may win due to sheer inertia.
[08:19] <omeg> Well, I hope they won't. Thing is, I think that people are still thinking that usplash is going to be voted for.
[08:19] <Coyctecm> that's pretty nice :)
[08:20] <Coyctecm> I liked that more colorfull splash too
[08:20] <infinity> omeg: They can vote.  And if their vote goes drastically differently, and I don't think the winner was totally crackful, we can always replace stuff.
[08:20] <omeg> Also, I'm very glad. That means a splash screen I made might be seen on millions of computers as they boot up.
[08:20] <omeg> Well, I guess that for now I'll just make that Edubuntu logo as well.
[08:20] <infinity> omeg: But Keybuk, sladen and I like your stuff.  That's 3 votes, all of whom are in the -core-dev keyring.  Not sure what that counts for, but it must count for something. :)
[08:20] <Coyctecm> why that colorfull splash was changed? 
[08:20] <omeg> Thanks :)
[08:21] <ogra> if the edubuntu one gets nice, you have mine as well ;)
[08:22] <infinity> omeg: Note, try to avoid the "naked dude in a pool of urine" colour scheme for edubuntu, and ogra will love you. :)
[08:22] <ogra> haha
[08:22] <Keybuk> getting the vote of the people who don't mind touching usplash is kinda useful :)
[08:23] <infinity> Yeah, add mjg59, mdz, and Kamion and I think you'll have everyone who ever uploaded.
[08:23] <infinity> Oh, and lamont.
[08:24] <Keybuk> omeg: that KDE one has a border around the progress bar
[08:24] <Keybuk> was that intentional?
[08:24] <Keybuk> 1px of colour index #4
[08:24] <infinity> Didn't we end up with a border on the Ubuntu one in the end?
[08:24] <infinity> (A shadowy one)
[08:25] <Keybuk> don't think there is one
[08:25] <Keybuk> nope
[08:25] <Keybuk> definitely not one on the ubuntu one
[08:25] <infinity> Looks like there is on http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/newsuggestion_0_8_SCALED_BAR_ALT.png
[08:26] <Keybuk> oh, maybe I wiped that out accidentally when I cut it out of the iamge
[08:26] <omeg> I think that it might be an idea to wipe out the shadows from both of the bars. It looks good on the Ubuntu one, but I'm totally not sure about Kubuntu.
[08:26] <infinity> Anyhow, I'm indifferent on the 1px "glow" on the bar.  omeg and sladen were +1, I was -1.
[08:27] <omeg> If it doesn't look good on Kubuntu, we should probably remove it for consistency.
[08:27] <infinity> Agreed.
[08:27] <Keybuk> it's not that it looks good or bad
[08:27] <infinity> And if he already cut it out of Ubuntu by accident, we win. :)
[08:27] <Keybuk> I just noticed it while dicking about with the palette
[08:27] <infinity> I prefer it without, TBH.
[08:27] <infinity> The fuzz screws with my eyes and throws them out of focus.
[08:28] <infinity> Which kinda hurts.
[08:28] <infinity> I don't like pain.
[08:28] <infinity> Much.
[08:30] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/tmp.png
[08:30] <Keybuk> omeg: it helps me if you do the images with the text and progress bar on them, so I allocate the palette entries properly
[08:30] <Keybuk> cause me is thick
[08:31] <infinity> As thick as a whale omelette?
[08:31] <omeg> Yeah, I'll do that when finalizing the palette.
[08:32] <Mithrandir> infinity: whales don't lay eggs.  Can't make whale omelette.
[08:32] <pitti> infinity: btw, shall I prepare a tbird 1.5.0.2 changelog snippet with CVE numbers and short descriptions?
[08:32] <infinity> pitti: I was JUST going to ask for a list of CVEs. :)
[08:32] <infinity> pitti: Please do.  I'm trying to finalise the package right now.
[08:32] <Burgundavia> infinity, does Charles Majola still work for Canonical?
[08:33] <infinity> Burgundavia: No, he works for Impi Linux now.
[08:33] <Keybuk> urgh
[08:33] <Keybuk> I've uploaded something in kubuntu
[08:33] <Keybuk> ;)
[08:33] <Burgundavia> infinity, ah, wondered
[08:33] <infinity> Keybuk: I lost that purity point long ago.  You'll get over it.
[08:34] <Keybuk> infinity: I'm surprised it's taken me this long
[08:35] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/edu_newsuggestion_0_32.png
[08:35] <omeg> I'm late for work, so I'll fix this one up tonight.
[08:35] <omeg> And then I'll also make a Xubuntu one if someone can tell me where their logo can be found, since I haven't been able to find it so far :P
[08:35] <Keybuk> omeg: grab me on monday if nobody's around when you get back
[08:35] <Keybuk> we're all on holiday over the weekend
[08:36] <Keybuk> and tomorrow
[08:36] <infinity> omeg: xubuntu.org
[08:36] <infinity> omeg: It's not pretty, though.
[08:36] <infinity> omeg: You may want to suggest a change. :)
[08:38] <omeg> Ohh.. their top banner isn't set to background-repeat: no-repeat;
[08:38] <omeg> It loops on my screen (1920x1200)
[08:39] <Keybuk> heh
[08:39] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/reports/unpublished.html
[08:39] <omeg> I do think the mouse is kinda cool.
[08:39] <Keybuk> 182 bugs on source packages that "don't exist"
[08:39] <omeg> It's just better off being a silhouette.
[08:40] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: most of them are binary packages that exist, so I'd argue they are malone bugs.
[08:41] <omeg> Anyway, time to go to work. Long train journey ahead of me. Maybe I'll Be Bold (TM) and install an IRC client on my OSX computer at work. Anybody know a good OSX IRC client?
[08:41] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: they're all because of that Malone bug
[08:41] <Keybuk> which may actually be a publisher bug
[08:43] <pitti> infinity: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14202
[08:43] <omeg> Ah well, I gotta get going now ;)
[08:43] <omeg> Later
[08:49] <Keybuk> right
[08:49] <Keybuk> I have actually gone through the bugs of every package I have ever touched now
[08:54] <infinity> pitti: Many thanks.
[08:54] <pitti> you're welcome
[08:55] <infinity> Now, I wonder if this thing still builds...
[08:56] <pitti> infinity: good luck! (although I never had many problems with the 1.0.x packages, they are packaged quite nicely)
[08:57] <infinity> Compared to the other mozilla products?  Yeah.
[08:57] <infinity> But that's not saying much. :)
[08:57] <pitti> I meant the Debian bits
[08:57] <infinity> asac's had a lot of help recently making the 1.5 packaging more sane (from me and from another guy whose name escapes me), but I'm not merging those changes, since they're a bit drastic.
[08:57] <infinity> So, I get to merge the Debian changes we need into our old build system and cross my fingers.
[08:57] <pitti> like renaming the source package and such?
[08:57] <infinity> \o/
[08:58] <infinity> No, like completely overhauling the debhelper usage to be sane.
[08:58] <infinity> The rename is easy to work around.
[08:58] <Keybuk> really should get around to those at some point
[09:00] <Keybuk> infinity: why is openoffice eternally in outdate?
[09:00] <infinity> Keybuk: Because it's sufferring from the world's most bizarre FTBFS.
[09:00] <infinity> Keybuk: If we can't sort it soon, I'll upload hand-built binaries. :/
[09:00] <Keybuk> why does this not surprise me?
[09:01] <Keybuk> it's openoffice!
[09:01] <pitti> Keybuk: can you please promote ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts to main? I'll add a l-support-ka dependency to it; I reviewed the package, it's just a harmless and tested font
[09:02] <infinity> pitti: I made a PHP 5.1.2 upload to polish off a couple of dapper-blocking bugs under the assumption that I may not have time for 5.1.4, so don't be surprised if I end up having to backport security patches to 5.1.2 instead.  <shrug>
[09:02] <Keybuk> . o O { man, chinstrap is slow ... all those launchpad guys converting their archives, I guess }
[09:02] <infinity> pitti: But if I can convince mdz to let me slip 5.1.4 in next week (or I can find the time tonight), I'll do it.
[09:02] <pitti> infinity: ok, sounds sane
[09:03] <infinity> pitti: But, given upstream's love of breaking things on new versions, and the fact that we know 5.1.2 works, I'm in no rush to prioritise it over anything else.
[09:03] <pitti> infinity: if we upload a patched 5.1.2 to dapper, that's fine for me
[09:03] <Keybuk> pitti: done
[09:03] <infinity> pitti: Yeah.  We'll see how it pans out.
[09:03] <pitti> infinity: that should still be possible next week, since we do the patches to current stables as well
[09:04] <pitti> Keybuk: thank you
[09:04] <Keybuk> anyone else need anything promoting or demoting while I'm logged in?
[09:04] <infinity> pitti: There's exactly one change in 5.1.4 that I would like to see in 5.1.2 (other than the security fixes, of course), and I can backport that if the upstream bump looks too hairy.
[09:04] <Keybuk> Riddell: ping?
[09:04] <sivang> morning all
[09:04] <Keybuk> infinity: who runs xubuntu?
[09:05] <infinity> Keybuk: janimo and... Some other poeple.
[09:05] <infinity> people, too.
[09:05] <Keybuk> ah, that's it; knew it began with j :)
[09:05] <infinity> Right, I think I'll wander off while this tbird build warms my ccache...
[09:06] <infinity> Must have flushed the poor thing with all the OpenOffice testing.
[09:06] <desrt> keybuk++
[09:06] <Keybuk> desrt: what did I do?
[09:07] <desrt> Something Good
[09:07] <pitti> Keybuk: can you please sync myspell-sk from Debian?
[09:07] <infinity> Clearly, you're just an all-round stand-up guy.
[09:07] <pitti> Keybuk: I'll review it and if it's sane, add it to language-support-sk
[09:08] <desrt> actually
[09:08] <pitti> Keybuk: oops, ignore me please; it's not yet in Debian
[09:08] <desrt> is sebastien, jeff, daniel or mark here?
[09:08] <pitti> desrt: seb128 usually gets up later
[09:08] <pitti> dholbach too
[09:08] <desrt> bah.
[09:08] <Keybuk> pitti: was about to say :p
[09:08] <Keybuk> desrt: which daniel?
[09:08] <desrt> german one :)
[09:10] <infinity> Do we have employees that aren't German?
[09:10] <Keybuk> ogra: WAKEY WAKEY!
[09:10] <Keybuk> infinity: nein
[09:10] <desrt> dholbach uploaded some icon theme badness
[09:10] <Keybuk> ogra: any particular reason that schoolbell isn't supported anymore?
[09:10] <sivang> morning ogra :)
[09:10] <desrt> pitti; hmm.  that's nicer than what i was about to do
[09:11] <ogra> Keybuk, dunno, doesnt schooltool depent on it anymore ? 
[09:11] <Keybuk> no, apparently not
[09:11] <ogra> Keybuk, i never explicitly seeded it
[09:11] <mvo> ogra: how, you are up early!
[09:11] <Keybuk> schooltool depends on python2.4-schooltool which depends on python2.4-schoolbell
[09:11] <ogra> mvo, *still* up :)
[09:11] <mvo> *ick*
[09:11] <jsgotangco> doh
[09:11] <ogra> Keybuk, yep, thats fine
[09:12] <Keybuk> ogra: should I add it just to edubuntu?
[09:12] <Keybuk> server?
[09:12] <ogra> its not needed
[09:12] <Keybuk> supported?
[09:12] <ogra> schooltool brings all needed deps
[09:12] <pitti> desrt: did your idea involve a bucket and cold dihydrogenoxide?
[09:12] <Keybuk> ogra: except the schoolbell package?
[09:12] <ogra> hmm, well, why not, add it to supported
[09:13] <ogra> it works fine without schoolell
[09:13] <ogra> *schoolbell
[09:13] <ogra> we never used it in edubuntu
[09:13] <Keybuk> yeah, just tidying up anastacia :)
[09:13] <ogra> yup :)
[09:14] <infinity> Gah, when did Debian start serving Packages diffs?
[09:14] <Keybuk> infinity: a while back, apparently
[09:15] <Keybuk> you've stopped paying attention to Debian too, huh? :p
[09:15] <infinity> No, I just don't update my sid chroots that often.
[09:15] <Keybuk> I don't even have those
[09:18] <sivang> Keybuk: so how do you do debian work? :)
[09:18] <Keybuk> sivang: what debian work?
[09:19] <pitti> and I still regret that Debian mandates binary uploads...
[09:19] <sivang> pitti: so you have to upload both binary and source?
[09:19] <sivang> Keybuk: :)
[09:19] <Keybuk> sivang: yeah, to "prove" you've actually tested it
[09:20] <pitti> sivang: yes
[09:20] <pitti> sivang: the bad side is that most packages are uploaded with i386 binaries, and god knows how many of them are not built in a clean sid pbuilder :/
[09:20] <sivang> pitti: oh bad :-/
[09:21] <pitti> sivang: so the majority of Debian users uses packages which have never seen the rigid process of a clean buildd build
[09:22] <sivang> pitti: I see, given that, ubuntu packages are basically much higher quality then?
[09:22] <Keybuk> pitti: or, looked at another way, all Ubuntu users use packages that the uploaders never bothered to test first <g>
[09:22] <sivang> hehe
[09:22] <infinity> Hey, I tested an upload once.
[09:22] <Keybuk> infinity: lies
[09:22] <sivang> s/tests/tesded/
[09:23] <infinity> It was back in aught five.
[09:23] <infinity> I remember it clearly.
[09:23] <sivang> I can actually imagine uploading something without testing it :-)
[09:23] <sivang> infinity: heh
[09:23] <sivang> s/can/can't/ 
[09:24] <infinity> Murphy always gets you anyway.  It's the one upload in 10 where I DON'T test, just cowboy a fix and say "yeah, that's going to work" that always ends up being FTBFS.
[09:24] <Keybuk> \ [[09:24] <sivang> (fruedian thinking ;)
[09:24] <Keybuk> TODAY BZR, TODAY!
[09:24] <sivang> Keybuk: hehe, aren't you using knits? 
[09:24] <Keybuk> didn't we write bzr because baz was slow?
[09:25] <ogra> the day is young :)
[09:25] <Keybuk> sivang: dunno, this is the seeds
[09:25] <Keybuk> I don't think we've made knitwear out of them yet
[09:25] <pitti> Keybuk: however, I must admit that knit pushing is much faster than weave pushing
[09:25] <sivang> Keybuk: ah
[09:25] <Keybuk> infinity: or does something hideous, like that kino upload I did that you had to correct repeatedly
[09:25] <Keybuk> "oh, this is easy ... *BLAM*"
[09:25] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, I was a good boy and didn't mention it once. :)
[09:26] <infinity> Keybuk: Have you seen the icky hack to fix it?
[09:26] <Keybuk> infinity: you probably would have mentioned it, if you didn't muck up your own fix upload :p
[09:26] <infinity> Keybuk: dpkg really, really doesn't like directories turning into conffiles.
[09:27] <Keybuk> the funny thing is, I've been bitten by that dh_install bug at least two or three times now
[09:27] <infinity> It's documented behaviour, not a bug. :)
[09:27] <infinity> So says Joey and the manpage.
[09:27] <Keybuk> it's a bug
[09:28] <infinity> It's an unfixable bug at this point, of course, cause you can't go and change how it works or the world may end.
[09:28] <infinity> Standard tools are a pain that way.
[09:28] <Keybuk> this is me you're talking about ;)
[09:28] <Keybuk> that's what dh_compat is for :)
[09:28] <Keybuk> compat 6? now it works *this* way
[09:28] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: what dh_install behaviour?
[09:28] <infinity> Like the "update-rc.d defaults" bug that will never ever be fixed, cause it would blow up every postinst with an init script.
[09:28] <infinity> \o/
[09:28] <lifeless> dh_compat 5.1keybuk
[09:29] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: you can't rename a file
[09:29] <infinity> LIMITATIONS
[09:29] <infinity>        dh_install cannot rename files or directories, it can only install them with the names
[09:29] <infinity>        they already have into wherever you want in the package build tree.
[09:29] <infinity> That one ^^^
[09:29] <Keybuk> ie. debian/kino.rules etc/udev/rules.d/45-kino.rules
[09:29] <Keybuk> does BAD THINGS
[09:30] <Keybuk>  Source and binary demotions to universe 
[09:30] <Keybuk>  --------------------------------------- 
[09:30] <Keybuk>  o ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts: ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts
[09:30] <Keybuk> NOT FAST ENOUGH
[09:31] <infinity> Bah, dapper doesn't need 'em.
[09:31] <Keybuk> infinity: php5-mysqli
[09:31] <infinity> Just remove them from the archive and let him start over.
[09:31] <infinity> Keybuk: re-run germinate.
[09:31] <infinity> Keybuk: It's caught by %php5
[09:31] <Keybuk> dunno how often Kamion's cron runs that
[09:32] <infinity> Every 30 mins?
[09:32] <infinity> I don't recall.
[09:32] <Keybuk> something like that
[09:32] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, I reviewed, tested (!!) and uploaded myspell-sk; can you please NEW it to main once it's there?
[09:32] <Keybuk> yeah
[09:32] <Keybuk> I'm about to embark on NEW
[09:32] <Keybuk> a few SONAME changes
[09:33] <Keybuk> oh, wow, did somebody finally approve or reject the fluendo plugin?
[09:34] <infinity> SONAME changes this close to release?
[09:34] <infinity> Someone's got big balls.
[09:34] <infinity> Or they were from the backlog of syncs. :/
[09:34] <Keybuk> syncs I suspect
[09:36] <pitti> Keybuk: ispell-sk will follow soon, too
[09:36] <infinity> Oh, ffs, thunderbird... BUILD FASTER.
[09:36] <infinity> I gave you a fast CPU.  I gave you 2GB of RAM.  WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?
[09:37] <lifeless> *YOUR SOLE*
[09:37] <Keybuk> a pony
[09:37] <Mithrandir> infinity: ccache.
[09:37] <infinity> Mithrandir: Well, yeah, it's priming ccache right now. :/
[09:37] <infinity> Mithrandir: Which is, no doubt, slowing it down.
[09:37] <infinity> Mithrandir: But I'm pretty sure I'll need another build in an hour, so hopefully it'll be less grumpy then.
[09:37] <Keybuk> oh, that's kinda neat
[09:38] <Mithrandir> infinity: yeah, should be.
[09:38] <Keybuk> this package build-deps on the -dev
[09:38] <Keybuk> but not binary deps on the lib
[09:38] <infinity> lifeless: It wants my shoes?
[09:38] <Keybuk> I like soname changes like that
[09:38] <lifeless> infinity: yes
[09:38] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: not versioned build-dep on the -dev, even?
[09:38] <Keybuk> mith: not even
[09:38] <Mithrandir> eww
[09:43] <Keybuk> infinity: why hasn't kolab-cyrus-admin built on !i386
[09:43] <Keybuk> that's a bit kooky
[09:44] <infinity>   There is no current release for this source package in Ubuntu  
[09:44] <infinity> Come again?
[09:44] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kolab-cyrus-imapd
[09:44] <Keybuk> the kolab-cyrus-admin binary on built on i386
[09:45] <infinity> Because it's arch:all.
[09:45] <Keybuk> oh, yeah
[09:45] <Keybuk>          | * kolab-cyrus-admin/2.2.12-7/i386 Component: main Section: mail Priority: EXTRA
[09:45] <Keybuk> why does that say /i386 then? :p
[09:46] <Keybuk> is it just being annoying
[09:48] <dholbach> good morning
[09:50] <infinity> Keybuk: Because the queue view just gives you the arch of the .changes, cause it's dumb.
[09:50] <infinity> Keybuk: I'm sure Kamion's probably already filed a bug about it, but if not, go nuts.
[09:50] <infinity> Keybuk: cprov and I will be spending much quality time together in Paris, so I'm hoping we can kill some of these irritants.
[09:51] <infinity> Also, why did Tbird just FTBFS?  *cry*
[09:51] <Keybuk> because you were watching it
[09:52] <infinity> A watched build never succeeds?
[09:52] <Keybuk> exactly
[09:52] <infinity> I've not heard that one before.
[09:53] <pitti> hi ivoks 
[09:54] <pitti> ivoks: I'm just building a new ffox-locales with your croatian xpi
[09:54] <ivoks> ok, thanks :)
[09:54] <Keybuk>          | * libgarlic3.15p/3.15p-10/i386 Component: main Section: devel Priority: OPTIONAL
[09:54] <Keybuk> oh, wow
[09:55] <Keybuk> these library names from the GNOME camp just get better and better
[09:58] <ivoks> um...
[09:58] <ivoks> xfsprogs have problems
[09:59] <pitti> shawarma: hi! I just replied to bug 8125, thanks for working on this ancient one!
[09:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 8125 in gnome-cups-manager "username for smb printer is not  shown on printer properties" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/8125
[10:00] <pitti> ivoks: works just fine here, will upload now. thank you!
[10:00] <ivoks> pitti: no, thank you :)
[10:04] <TheMuso> dholbach: ping
[10:04] <dholbach> TheMuso: pong
[10:05] <dholbach> heya seb128!
[10:05] <seb128> hi dholbach
[10:06] <TheMuso> dholbach: I have been thinking about the BrlTTY turned off by default stuff, and have it turned on for the live CD. I know it may be a little late, but I was thinking perhaps a simple /etc/default/brltty file could be checked for a variable to start brltty or not, and the /etc/default/brltty file could easiy be written if accessibility is enabled on the live CD gfxboot menu.
[10:07] <shawarma> pitti: Er... What's mysterious about the patch?
[10:07] <dholbach> TheMuso: why turned on with livecd?
[10:07] <pitti> shawarma: it looks just a bit weird to completely remove the password field contents
[10:07] <shawarma> pitti: the only mysterious thing about it is how that weird line ever was allowed into the code and why noone has removed it yet. :-)
[10:08] <shawarma> pitti: Well, actually it's not
[10:08] <pitti> shawarma: heh :) as I said, I didn't yet look at it, but I will today
[10:08] <TheMuso> I also looked into that conffile bug for brltty, and also looked at dbus, after what you said in that email to ubuntu-accessibility@. I think I know what you are referring to as to what needs to be used for brltty.
[10:08] <shawarma> pitti: gnome-cups-manager requests the deviceURI from cups, which only has e.g. smb://host/printer .
[10:09] <TheMuso> dholbach: To quote your email: * brltty is currently turned off. We have to think of a clever way to enable it
[10:09] <TheMuso> (persistently?) if somebody chooses to do this in the gfxboot menu
[10:09] <shawarma> pitti: It never returns the password, so there's nothing sensible to put into the password field.
[10:09] <dholbach> TheMuso: ah yeah
[10:09] <shawarma> pitti: The best thing would be a descriptive text explaining that you should only enter anything if you want to change it, but as we're in string freeze..
[10:10] <dholbach> pitti: I do the asterisk merge (cve-2006-1827) is handled that way
[10:10] <ivoks> um,,, gparted is broken :/
[10:10] <pitti> dholbach: parse error :) but if you want to merge asterisk, great :)
[10:10] <shawarma> pitti: Otherwise, we could add a button that says: "Change username and password" which would show a dialog. That way noone accidentally changes anything.
[10:10] <TheMuso> dholbach: But since we are so close to freeze, and we haven't had users demand it, I am wondering if we should just wait till edgy is open.
[10:10] <dholbach> pitti: hm?
[10:11] <Keybuk> dholbach: did you ever decide what to do about brltty-flite, brltty-x11 and flite?
[10:11] <TheMuso> But that conf file bug is something I think we need to sort, although other than dist-upgrading from breezy, I don't know how else to reproduce it.
[10:11] <dholbach> Keybuk: i asked the a11y folks
[10:11] <TheMuso> I don't think they need to be worried about atm, unless something from main pulls them in when they shouldn't be.
[10:11] <dholbach> pitti: 1.2.7.1 fixes cve-2006-1827
[10:11] <Keybuk> dholbach: did they answer?
[10:12] <TheMuso> Keybuk: Someone stated the usefulness of one of them, but it wasn't implicitly asked for I don't think.
[10:13] <dholbach> Keybuk: Samuel Thibault indicated that brltty-x11 was useful
[10:13] <Mithrandir> seb128,dholbach: can either of you change the error text when gnome-keyboard-properties fails to enable a keyboard layout for me?  I want it to ask for the output of setxkbmap -print too.
[10:13] <dholbach> Keybuk: that's the best i could find out
[10:13] <seb128> Mithrandir: no
[10:13] <Mithrandir> seb128: since it's locallised?
[10:14] <Mithrandir> localised, even
[10:14] <seb128> Mithrandir: I'm looking to be sure, but yep
[10:14] <Keybuk> ogra: heh, have you been at Mark's photo collection?
[10:14] <shawarma> pitti: There. i just posted the cupsys patch. Have fun. :-D
[10:14] <seb128> I don't know if they did that smartly enough to no localize the command though
[10:14] <ogra> Keybuk, ?
[10:14] <ogra> ah, heh
[10:14] <Mithrandir> seb128: if so, it'd be nice to have, but if not, I can always ask submitters for it.
[10:14] <ogra> yes, he snet them to me 
[10:14] <pitti> shawarma: thanks!
[10:14] <ogra> *sent
[10:14] <Keybuk> ogra: screensaver-default-images
[10:14] <ogra> yup
[10:14] <seb128> Mithrandir: they have been smart, I'll change that ;)
[10:15] <ogra> Keybuk, feel free to add intresting photos :)
[10:15] <seb128> Mithrandir: just one extra line with "setxkbmap -print" then?
[10:15] <Keybuk> dholbach: ok, I'll seed the x11 one, and drop the flite things
[10:15] <Mithrandir> seb128: excellent.  Yes, please.  Just an extra line.
[10:15] <dholbach> Keybuk: thanks a lot.
[10:16] <Keybuk> lifeless: if I bzr upgrade a local copy to knit, what happens if I try and sftp push into a copy that's not knit?
[10:16] <seb128> Mithrandir: np. Hum, I've a question maybe for you ... do you know what is the best way to get the user locale? I want it for the localized epiphany startup page
[10:17] <seb128> Mithrandir: setlocale (LC_ALL, NULL)? of better to g_getenv (LANGUAGE) or something like that?
[10:17] <lifeless> Keybuk: it does a full rediff of the inventory while pushing to the weave.
[10:17] <lifeless> Keybuk: aka. SLOW.
[10:17] <Keybuk> lifeless: so not a good idea then
[10:17] <lifeless> Keybuk: so do a 'bzr upgrade sftp://foo' first
[10:17] <Keybuk> lifeless: won't that be slow too? :p
[10:18] <lifeless> Keybuk: you only pay the cost once :)
[10:18] <lifeless> Keybuk: rather than on every push
[10:19] <Keybuk> lifeless: I just mean wouldn't it be faster just to do the bzr upgrade in the directory on chinstrap? :)
[10:19] <lifeless> oh sure
[10:19] <lifeless> you didn't say you had ssh access to the branch ;)
[10:19] <Keybuk> ogra: hmm, the names of these aren't very good
[10:20] <Keybuk> ogra: and why does it depend on xscreensaver-data ?  shouldn't it be the other way around?
[10:20] <lifeless> though, with your access to chinstrap, and chinstraps CPU, doing it over sftp might be faster ;)
[10:20] <Tetralet> pitti: ping
[10:20] <seb128> Mithrandir: hum in fact no, adding a command would break the translations :/
[10:20] <Keybuk> ./usr/share/backgrounds/DSC_0002-TIF.jpg
[10:20] <Keybuk> is a weeeee bit icky
[10:20] <ogra> Keybuk, space1-4 ?
[10:20] <lifeless> thats horrible
[10:20] <Keybuk> ogra: something like that would be preferable
[10:20] <ogra> ok
[10:21] <Keybuk> or just name them
[10:21] <caleb-> pitti: https://launchpad.net/bugs/43991 # language-pack-kde-zh-base_6.06+20060511.tar.gz has not zh_TW entry.desktop
[10:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43991 in language-pack-kde-zh-base "Can't select Traditional Chinese" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[10:22] <ogra> it depends on xscreensaver-data because xscreensaver-data has the interpreter (xscreensaver-getimage/xscreensaver-gl-helper) that uses these pics
[10:22] <caleb-> pitti: upstream has those files for Taiwan, but tarball of Ubuntu has only zh_CN
[10:22] <Keybuk> ogra: right, but wouldn't that mean that xscreensaver-data should depend on these to get the images it needs to display?
[10:22] <Keybuk> the package just contains the images, after all
[10:23] <ogra> yep
[10:24] <ogra> but xscreensaver-data can live fine with the default wallpaper as well ... they are additional pics
[10:24] <Keybuk> recommends/suggests ?
[10:24] <ogra> so either no dependency at all or one on -data
[10:24] <Keybuk> but yeah, I get what you mean now
[10:25] <Keybuk> given the description of "install these to get default images for your screensaver" it makes sense that they haul in the screensaver
[10:36] <Keybuk>  Source only demotions to universe 
[10:36] <Keybuk>  --------------------------------- 
[10:36] <Keybuk>  o myspell-sk
[10:36] <Keybuk> pitti: !!
[10:38] <pitti> Keybuk: I'm uploading a new l-support-sk now
[10:38] <pitti> Tetralet: pong
[10:38] <Keybuk> pitti: too slow for _this_ cat ;)
[10:39] <Tetralet> pitti: https://launchpad.net/bugs/43991 #language-pack-kde-zh-base_6.06+20060511.tar.gz has not zh_TW entry.desktop
[10:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43991 in language-pack-kde-zh-base "Can't select Traditional Chinese" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[10:39] <ivoks> pitti: untill when I have to create myspell-hr to get it uploaded? :)
[10:39] <Tetralet> The missing files are exist in upstream,
[10:39] <Tetralet> but the tarball of Ubuntu don't have them.
[10:39] <pitti> ivoks: until today
[10:39] <ivoks> pitti: ok, you'll get it
[10:39] <pitti> Tetralet: that's what caleb- just said, will look at it after breakfast
[10:40] <Tetralet> pitti: thanks!!
[10:40] <ivoks> pitti: you need whole package or just dics?
[10:40] <pitti> ivoks: a complete tested source package please, I don't have time for packaging today
[10:40] <ivoks> pitti: no probs
[10:41] <herzi> dholbach: can you take a quick look at https://launchpad.net/bugs/35825
[10:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35825 in gq "Does not appear in the menu" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[10:43] <dholbach> herzi: cant you assign that to motu? or ask in #ubuntu-motu - i'm a bit busy
[10:44] <pitti> Tetralet: I replied to the bug and marked it as milestone dapper; will be fixed in next langpack update
[10:44] <Keybuk> heh
[10:44] <Tetralet> pitti: Got it. Thanks!!
[10:44] <Keybuk> "-b debzilla" I *guess*
[10:44] <sladen> infinity: I think the Kubuntu people have a new usplash and may want to keep it (it also looks fairly good)
[10:45] <Keybuk> sladen: yes, I uploaded it a few hours ago
[10:46] <jinty> Keybuk: SteveA tells me you have some questions on schooltool/schoolbell?
[10:46] <sladen> Keybuk: you shouldn't need to cut the progress-bar out;  it's in the right place so would just be overwritten
[10:47] <Keybuk> sladen: yeah, but there was also text that needed cutting out
[10:47] <sladen> okay.
[10:47] <Keybuk> and there was a partial progress bar there, which would confusingly appear before one was set
[10:47] <Keybuk> sladen: it was a _very_ dark glow, which is why I didn't notice it :)
[10:47] <sladen> Keybuk: yup, along with the glow on the main part of the logo;  it's the fact that it's so subtle that (IMHO) opinion makes it work
[10:48] <Keybuk> it was too subtle :D
[10:48] <sladen> btw, why are we doing uploads of usplash to change the usplash artwork;  shouldn't that just be another alternative
[10:49] <caleb-> pitti: Thank you!
[10:49] <Keybuk> sladen: the default artwork is in usplash
[10:50] <sladen> keybuk: yeah, it's a rhetorical question
[10:50] <infinity> usplash needs to have a default image.  One could argue that it should just say "Usplash", and the "Ubuntu" one should ship in ubuntu-artwork or something.
[10:50] <infinity> But I'm not fussed.
[10:51] <sladen> Keybuk: like, ...shouldn't it actually be in a separate package, just like everything else
[10:51] <sladen> infinity: indeed.
[10:54] <infinity> Oh yaya, thunderbird FTBFS sorted, back on track..
[10:58] <Kamion> Keybuk: cron.germinate is run by lp_publish now, at :30
[10:58] <Keybuk> Kamion: and takes about 30 minutes to run?
[10:59] <Keybuk> it seems to show up on the hour
[10:59] <Kamion> Keybuk: I gave in on -fluendo-mp3 after noticing that (a) Debian had let it in and (b) it was no worse than all the other mp3 crap in universe already
[11:00] <Keybuk> damn, ogra's fast
[11:00] <ogra> :)
[11:01] <Mithrandir> seb128: (re adding command would break stuff): grr.  About locale, setlocale is probably what you want.
[11:01] <Kamion> Keybuk: takes like two minutes or something
[11:01] <Kamion> anastacia's a separate cron job though
[11:01] <Keybuk> ogra: are you intending to seed this in main?
[11:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, thank you
[11:01] <sladen> Keybuk: with Xubuntu, what are they using for the Volume control?
[11:01] <ogra> Keybuk, yep, its small, we can put it at least into supported
[11:02] <Keybuk> sladen: sodomy non sapiens
[11:02] <ogra> 200k or something
[11:03] <Keybuk> at some point we need to pin janimo down and find out about all these xubuntu packages he's seeded
[11:03] <Keybuk> Kamion: I punted git-email out, it didn't seem "useful" and dragged in too much
[11:04] <Kamion> cjwatson@rookery:~/public_html$ ls -l anastacia.txt
[11:04] <Kamion> -rw-rw-r--  1 cjwatson warthogs 2551 May 18 09:29 anastacia.txt
[11:04] <Kamion> oh, I forgot to move the cron job after splitting out cron.germinate
[11:05] <Kamion> right, should show up around :35 now, sorry about that
[11:05] <Keybuk> :)
[11:05] <Mithrandir> so, when did the "log out" symbol turn into something that looks vaguely like a door?
[11:05] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: always has been?
[11:06] <pitti> Keybuk: to me it looks like a power switch or a wall calendar :)
[11:07] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: nope, it has looked like a somewhat-open door with a red arrow out.  The new one is a power switch looking like a door front-on with a power symbol.  Or maybe a wall calendar, as pitti says.
[11:07] <ogra> guys, just use edubuntu :) in gartoon the icon is pretty clear ;)
[11:07] <pygi> ogra, hehe :)
[11:07] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: which icon theme are you using?
[11:08] <Mithrandir> on that machine?  Whatever's todays default.
[11:08] <Keybuk> hmm
[11:08] <Keybuk> it hasn't changed to my eye
[11:08] <infinity> Mithrandir: That's a door?... I thought it was meant to be a tower PC with a power off logo.  Either way, "power off logo" and "log out" don't work for me.
[11:08] <Keybuk> Tangerine is the same as GNOME, just smaller
[11:08] <Mithrandir> infinity: the power icon is too low anyway.
[11:09] <dholbach> it's supposed to look like a power switch but will change again
[11:09] <dholbach> we have a bug open about that
[11:10] <infinity> Keybuk: Err, I thought we did the main inclusion dance for the git-email stuff?
[11:10] <Keybuk> infinity: did we?
[11:10] <infinity> Keybuk: git-email's sort of the canonical way to submit kernel patches.
[11:10] <infinity> (little c, not big C)
[11:10] <Keybuk> infinity: I grepped MIQ
[11:10] <infinity> Hrm.
[11:10] <Keybuk> all the Perlish bits it needs
[11:10] <Keybuk> none of them had MIRs
[11:10] <infinity> pitti: Did we once again forget to actually do the MIR dance for the git-email junk? :/
[11:11] <pitti> arrrrgh
[11:11] <infinity> Keybuk: We did a group "on IRC" thing, but then never actually formalised anything, it would seem.  Feh.
[11:12] <infinity> pitti: Do you want me to do formal reports after I do tbird, or can we just sneak it in based on our past conversations?
[11:12] <Keybuk> asciidoc, libemail-valid-perl, libmail-sendmail-perl, libnet-dns-perl, libnet-domain-tld-perl, libnet-ip-perl
[11:12] <Keybuk> that's the list of sources it wants
[11:12] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, we know.  We audited the bunch of 'em way back when.
[11:12] <infinity> Keybuk: And none have changed since then, ttbomk (but I can check again)
[11:12] <pitti> infinity: I'm fine with sneaking it in without MIRs, if you are sure that the Debian RC bugs don't affect us (I don't remember the details any more)
[11:13] <infinity> pitti: The Debian bugs affected new versions in Debian that we didn't ship.  I'll double-check that no one's done a boneheaded sync where they shouldn't have and then call it gold.
[11:13] <pitti> Keybuk, infinity: I'll do a formal MIR for asciidoc
[11:15] <Keybuk> slap me when ready
[11:16] <infinity> Keybuk: Verified again that the lib*-perl group is fine.
[11:18] <`6og> is this an ok place to ask about the licence attached to sun-java5? 
[11:19] <`6og> i noticed it just made it into ubuntu and Debian, but Debian -legal and -devel are not to impressed with the licence, is that something ubuntu is happy to ignore?>
[11:19] <infinity> We're distributing it in multiverse.  We're not exactly saying it's "free and wonderful and will solve the world's problems"
[11:19] <infinity> We're just saying "Sun explicitely told us that we can distribute here, so here you go"
[11:20] <pitti> Keybuk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportAsciiDoc approved
[11:20] <Keybuk> "Sun won't sue us, we're happy"
[11:20] <kgoetz> hm. infinity, Debian don't think they can include it in non-free even.
[11:20] <pitti> Keybuk: I also added it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue, pleaes move it when you promote it
[11:21] <kgoetz> Keybuk: mmmm.
[11:22] <infinity> kgoetz: The license is sketchy, but OTOH, Sun has told us directly "Yes, you may package and distribute this", so it doesn't need to get much more free than that to hit a non-free archive.
[11:23] <ivoks> pitti: ok, i have the source, luke :)
[11:23] <pitti> ivoks: also tested in OO.o and found working fine?
[11:23] <ivoks> pitti: yes
[11:23] <pitti> cool
[11:24] <ivoks> pitti: it's myspell-hr and openoffice.org-hypblabla-hr
[11:24] <kgoetz> infinity: yes, it's free enough. from what i see the problem is if sun decide to not like us in the future - we have a problem in that case (having to remove the package or change the os). sorry, i just live my package inclusion life by what Debian say is allowed usualy :/
[11:24] <ivoks> pitti: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/m/myspell-hr/
[11:24] <Keybuk> remove-package.py -m 'SUN turned evil again :-(' java*
[11:24] <infinity> kgoetz: Removing the package from the archive isn't the end of the world if they reneg on the license.
[11:24] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[11:26] <infinity> kgoetz: We make no guarantees that non-free stuff (in Debian or Ubuntu) is mirrorable, distributable, or usable.  Just that we, the originating archive owners, are allowed to distribute it for the duration that it's on our machines. :)
[11:27] <Yagisan> infinity: we can't comply with the license on sun-java. reading it seems we need to make a choice, sun java, or python, perl et al
[11:27] <kgoetz> infinity: yes, but the licence also causes Ubuntu/Debian to be legaly covering suns arse if something goes wrong (from what i see). 
[11:27] <pitti> carlos: will we get a tarball today?
[11:28] <Keybuk> hurrah
[11:28] <Keybuk> that bout of ftp-mastery should clean up the queue somewhat
[11:28] <infinity> Yagisan: Yes, the license appears to say that.  The word from Sun themselves is "that's not really what we mean, and you're okay to distribute it"
[11:28] <Keybuk> there will only be one thing in S/B promotions, and only two things in B demotions
[11:29] <infinity> Yagisan: If their opinion changes, we stop distributing it.  Easy.
[11:29] <carlos> pitti: yes, we got an update yesterday
[11:29] <pitti> cool
[11:29] <carlos> pitti: and I guess it will be the same for today, because the mirror update is disabled to test new shipit
[11:30] <Yagisan> infinity: I'm sorry, that is not what the license says. legally, I can not operate on that. If they don't mean that, they can re-word the license.
[11:30] <infinity> Yagisan: What they apparently are trying to prevent with that license is people distributing crazy gcj/sun-classpath hybrids and such.  Which we're not doing.
[11:30] <Yagisan> infinity: then they have a bad choice of words
[11:30] <infinity> Yagisan: Legally, it doesn't make a difference to you, since you're not the one distributing it.
[11:31] <kgoetz> infinity: i am if i mirrror it :), which i'm plainning to do :)
[11:32] <infinity> kgoetz: Then read the license and decide for yourself if you mirror it.  Neither Debian nor Ubuntu has EVER guaranteed that downstream distributors would have the same rights to non-free as the orignating distributors do.
[11:32] <infinity> If non-free/restricted/multiverse scare you, don't mirror them.  Or mirror selectively.
[11:32] <Kamion> it's easy to rsync --exclude pool/multiverse/ and dists/*/multiverse/; that's why the components are split out that way on the filesystem, to make that trivial to do
[11:33] <kgoetz> infinity: i accept that ubuntu doesnt guarantee you can mirror stuff, but it does try to be open to being derived off. *thinks of fuss over firefox icon*
[11:33] <Kamion> kgoetz: that's main
[11:33] <Kamion> which is a somewhat different scenario
[11:33] <infinity> kgoetz: We *do* make guarantees about freedom in main.
[11:33] <infinity> kgoetz: I'm only talking about the non-free components here.
[11:34] <infinity> kgoetz: If you want to throw firefox in multiverse just to get the icon back, go nuts. :)
[11:34] <Yagisan> infinity: will the alternatives system be crippled to comply with the wish to prevent gcj/sun-classpath hybrids and such ?
[11:34] <kgoetz> infinity: np ;)
[11:34] <infinity> Yagisan: How would it need to be?  By default, we don't attempt to install crazy hybrid scenarios.
[11:35] <infinity> Yagisan: If you make one yourself on your system, that's not the distributor's fault, that's your choice as an end user.
[11:36] <Keybuk> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/reports/
[11:36] <Keybuk> (switching window)
[11:36] <sivang> kgoetz: pong (although a bit late)
[11:36] <sivang> infinity: get some tim tams :)
[11:36] <kgoetz> sivang: hi :) 
[11:37] <kgoetz> mmm. timtams
[11:37] <Keybuk> pitti: eww
[11:37] <kgoetz> sivang: i was havving issues connecting to your bzr main-devel branch on LP.  
[11:37] <Keybuk>  o qt4-x11: libqt4-core libqt4-gui
[11:37] <Keybuk>    [Reverse-Depends: libqt4-gui, lsb-qt4] 
[11:37] <Keybuk> lsb dragged in qt4-x11
[11:37] <sivang> kgoetz: oh, whcih one where you trying to fetch?
[11:37] <Keybuk> pitti: can you audit that?
[11:38] <pitti> Keybuk: audit what?
[11:38] <Kamion> Keybuk: I saw, nice
[11:38] <Keybuk> pitti: qt4-x11
[11:38] <pitti> Keybuk: qt4? argh, we had this discussion months ago, I wouldn't be happy about it
[11:39] <pitti> Keybuk: I'd rather not have it in main, especially not if we don't need it for core KDE apps
[11:39] <Keybuk> now this leaves us in an interesting pickle :)
[11:39] <Keybuk> I can drop lsb to universe <g>
[11:39] <pitti> Keybuk: that was due to the recent merge with Debian?
[11:39] <Keybuk> seems so
[11:39] <Kamion> or just butcher lsb not to depend on lsb-qt4, or whatever it is that's pulling in that one binary
[11:40] <Keybuk> Kamion: is that ... legal? :p
[11:40] <Kamion> I'm just looking up the specs
[11:40] <pitti> Keybuk: it apparently was legal in our previous lsb package...
[11:40] <Kamion> # 1.3 Optional modules
[11:40] <Kamion>     * 1.3.1 LSB Qt 4
[11:40] <pitti> *phew* :)
[11:40] <Keybuk> can drop it to a recommends
[11:40] <Kamion> http://freestandards.org/en/Download
[11:41] <pitti> Keybuk: suggests rather?
[11:41] <Keybuk> yeah suggests
[11:41] <Keybuk> thought the same just as I edited control
[11:41] <Keybuk> Kamion: while you're there, is lsb-desktop optional?
[11:41] <Keybuk> that was the other NEW
[11:41] <Kamion> there's only one optional module ...
[11:42] <Keybuk> that drags libqt3-mt
[11:42] <Keybuk> but I guess that's ok?
[11:42] <Kamion> we didn't have that already?
[11:42] <Keybuk> it's in main, yeah
[11:43] <Kamion> hmm, I don't want to have to suck libqt3-mt into Ubuntu ship
[11:44] <Keybuk> that's what I was thinking
[11:44] <Keybuk> though ship doesn't mean much now?
[11:44] <Kamion> sigh, awkward people
[11:44] <Kamion> see my mail about that
[11:44] <Keybuk> ref?
[11:44] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/44313
[11:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44313 in ubuntu-cdimage "build-essential not on Dapper Flight7 ISO" [Major,Confirmed]  
[11:45] <Keybuk> ah right
[11:45] <Kamion> hmm, rather than butchering lsb-desktop out of lsb (which would mean lsb wouldn't be LSB 3.1 any more), I'd rather either just put individual elements of lsb into ship, or leave it out entirely
[11:46] <Kamion> lsb-{core,cxx,graphics} shouldn't be too unreasonable though
[11:46] <Kamion> and then put full lsb into supported
[11:46] <Kamion> I can see why they're doing it, but I don't think it's sustainable for a single-CD distribution
[11:47] <Kamion> also, I'm making decisions before coffee, which is a bad idea
[11:48] <Keybuk> it could be worse
[11:48] <Keybuk> rumour has it infinity is shopping for something a little stronger ;)
[11:48] <Kamion> I don't blame him
[11:59] <Keybuk> OK!  WHO UPLOADED FIREFOX?!
[12:00] <pitti> Keybuk: can you please NEW mozilla-firefox-locale-all for the new m-f-l-hr package?
[12:00] <pitti> oh, oops :)
[12:00] <Keybuk> pitti: all into main? :)
[12:00] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, and 'all' is just the -hr package
[12:01] <pitti> Keybuk: this time, the l-support-hr package is already updated :)
[12:01] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah, well, our new queue tool doesn't bother to tell you what's new or not :)
[12:10] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Is it ok to squeeze a final accessibility related bugfix into casper? If so, I'll file a bug straight away and fix it in my casper tree.
[12:11] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: please do file it at least and give me the url of your tree and I'll take a look
[12:11] <TheMuso> ok.
[12:12] <mdke> can someone who has access to this information tell me whether henrik is on vacation at the moment?
[12:13] <Mithrandir> mdke: he's on IRC which he tends to just do when he's around.
[12:13] <TheMuso> mdke: He is online atm. I was talking to him a few minutes ago.
[12:14] <mdke> ah, thanks
[12:14] <Kamion> iwj: I was trying to work out how you'd built your yaboot-test-ordinary.iso
[12:14] <Kamion> isoinfo diff says:
[12:14] <Kamion> --r--r--r--   1    0    0          145604 Apr  1 2006 [     68 00]   yaboot
[12:14] <Kamion> +-r--r--r--   1    0    0          145504 May 17 2006 [    348 00]   yaboot
[12:15] <Kamion> between dapper-install-powerpc-stripped.iso and yaboot-test-ordinary.iso
[12:15] <Kamion> what happened to the last hundred bytes? :-)
[12:17] <iwj> I don't know.  I rebuilt yaboot.
[12:18] <iwj> That is, I rebuilt yaboot _twice_.
[12:18] <iwj> Once on davis using whatever the dapper chroot had installed, and once with gcc-3.3 on the PATH.
[12:18] <infinity> pitti: How do you feel about doing a thunderbird-locales update for 1.5.0.2?
[12:19] <pitti> infinity: I'll try to do it today (since it's today or never)
[12:19] <pitti> I'm currently at printing bug fixing (again...) but it shouldn't take that long any more
[12:20] <infinity> pitti: Currently, they all claim to be incompatible with 1.5.0.2, but I'm unsure if that's easily solved or a serious pain.
[12:20] <pitti> infinity: but it takes a lot of time to test the XPIs
[12:20] <Kamion> iwj: oh, right. I might have to point them to all three then.
[12:20] <iwj> Yes, I'm afraid so.
[12:20] <pitti> infinity: oh, usually you can hack the install.rdf in the xpi to just select a maxVersion of 1.5.0.99
[12:20] <pitti> infinity: but grabbing the latest ones from upstream can't hurt either
[12:20] <infinity> pitti: Then that's probably our better bet.
[12:21] <iwj> Kamion: I did that because you said you wanted to know whether it was really gcc-3.3 that solved the problem :-).
[12:21] <Kamion> damnit, I'm going to push to get bsdtar into base or something in edgy so that I stop having to mess around with isoinfo
[12:21] <infinity> pitti: But whatever you feel is best.  You put it together, not me.  I'm happy with an English-only Tbird. :)
[12:21] <Kamion> iwj: sure, it makes sense - just wanted to make sure it was intentional
[12:22] <iwj> Right.
[12:22] <Kamion> Anyone with a powerpc around who could do a couple of quick test-boots of small ISO images before I punt these out to bug reporters?
[12:23] <pitti> Kamion: I can, depending on what 'small' is (limited bw here)
[12:23] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/casper - For bug #45376
[12:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45376 in casper "Large print fonts are not enabled for the lesser visual impairment accessibility profile." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45376
[12:23] <Kamion> <30MB
[12:23] <pitti> Kamion: that sounds fine
[12:24] <Kamion> pitti: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/dapper-install-powerpc-stripped.iso <- stripped-down version of yesterday's daily build; should boot the installer but not actually install anything
[12:24] <Kamion> pitti: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/yaboot-test-ordinary.iso <- same, but with yaboot rebuilt on davis
[12:24] <Kamion> pitti: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/yaboot-test-weird.iso <- same, but with yaboot rebuilt on davis with gcc-3.3
[12:25] <Kamion> 22.5MB each
[12:25] <Kamion> thanks a lot, just want to make sure there are no thinkos before confusing an already confused situation :-)
[12:28] <Kamion> NOTICE: please do not attempt seed commits in the next 20 minutes
[12:28] <Kamion> (converting to knits)
[12:29] <Kamion> in fact, I'm going to move the repository so you can't commit easily :-)
[12:29] <lifeless> Kamion: no need
[12:29] <lifeless> Kamion: the upgrade is safe
[12:29] <lifeless> Kamion: it takes out locks where needed.
[12:30] <Kamion> lifeless: not if somebody rsyncs over the top while it's running :P
[12:30] <lifeless> Kamion: you use rsync to commit ?!
[12:30] <Kamion> I just want to be safe, no harm in that
[12:30] <Kamion> lifeless: *I* don't
[12:30] <lifeless> being safe is fine
[12:30] <pitti> MEH, why does cd burning suddenly fail here?
[12:30] <Kamion> moving the repository is not harmful; the publicly-viewable archive is elsewhere, mirrored by cron
[12:30] <lifeless> was just letting you know that it shouldn't be needed.
[12:31] <Kamion> FURTHER NOTICE: if you have a local seed branch (even one with no local modifications), you should run 'bzr upgrade' on it with bzr 0.8
[12:32] <Kamion> (I'll send out mail when I'm finished)
[12:35] <Riddell> Keybuk: please don't change kubuntu artwork without asking me
[12:36] <pitti> Kamion: dapper-install-powerpc-stripped.iso boots fine, language selection works, now stops at 'no valid Release file'
[12:37] <Kamion> right, that's expected, good
[12:39] <pitti> Kamion: yaboot-test-ordinary.iso behaves exactly the same
[12:39] <Kamion> excellent
[12:40] <pitti> 3rd CD just finished burning, booting now
[12:40] <Keybuk> Riddell: any particular reason?
[12:41] <pitti> Kamion: yaboot-test-weird.iso: again, no observable difference, install stops with invalid Release file
[12:41] <Kamion> pitti: excellent. Thanks a lot for the help
[12:41] <pitti> you're welcome
[12:43] <Riddell> Keybuk: we do plan our kubuntu artwork.  did you ask our artist?
[12:45] <Keybuk> Riddell: the usplash changes are across the board?
[12:53] <silbs> hi folks. shipit for Dapper  has quietly gone live (shipit.ubuntu.com. shipit.kubuntu.org, shipit.edubuntu.org). There is still an important feature to be added (ability to order large numbers of CDs) so the launch is relatively low key until that's in place. But it's been open for about 2 hours and NO ONE has placed an order for Dapper CDs.  Who will be first....
[12:54] <kgoetz> heh. I'm going there :P
[12:54] <Riddell> silbs: excellent
[12:55] <tseng> silbs: heh, crashed my firefox
[12:55] <kgoetz> LOl
[12:55] <tseng> 10 Ubuntu CDs (8 PC Edition, 1 64-bit PC Edition, 1 Mac Edition)
[12:55] <tseng> i have a dozen amd64 servers
[12:55] <silbs> tseng: really!  maybe that's why there are no orders! https://launchpad.net/products/shipit/+filebug please :)
[12:55] <tseng> silbs: heh working better now!
[12:56] <Riddell> Keybuk: that usplash goes quite against the artwork we're using in dapper, I'm going to revert it
[12:56] <Yagisan> silbs: how do I make an order for 1 i386 + 1 amd64 ? I don't want excess cds
[12:58] <Keybuk> Riddell: it's not much different than the old one, other than slightly shinier
[12:58] <Riddell> Yagisan: make two orders, it'll put them together
[12:59] <Riddell> Keybuk: it's not much different from the breezy one, it is from the dapper one we were using
[01:00] <Keybuk> it didn't look much different when I changed it
[01:00] <kgoetz> silbs: any idea how long untill the builk orders start?
[01:00] <Yagisan> Riddell: I only get an option to change my order, not add to it
[01:00] <Keybuk> Riddell: otherwise kubuntu is going to look rather different to Ubuntu
[01:01] <Riddell> Yagisan: hmm yes, I'm wrong
[01:01] <Riddell> Keybuk: yes, our artwork is not related to ubuntu's artwork
[01:05] <pitti> infinity: I'll wait with the tbird-locales update until the new tbird is in the archive; I like to actually test the new l10n debs :)
[01:06] <infinity> pitti: Fair enough.  It should be up in another hour or so, I'm hoping.  Down to my last set of changes and tests.
[01:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: so now you get to slack the rest of the day?
[01:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: unfortunately not :(
[01:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: I still need to wade through the cupsys and g-c-m bugs again to check whether anything urgent and new has popped up
[01:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: sounds !fun
[01:08] <pitti> Mithrandir: the postgresql bug fixing can happen tomorrow, since I can upload to Debian and sync, to avoid giving too many cocktails :)
[01:08] <pitti> (to mdz)
[01:08] <Mithrandir> pitti: you workaholic
[01:08] <pitti> na, I have always considered psql a free time project; it's fun
[01:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: much more fun than doing my overdue fiscal paperwork and tax declaration in any case
[01:10] <Mithrandir> pitti: I get to do those tomorrow.  Joy.
[01:10] <Mithrandir> pitti: not overdue, though.
[01:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: me too, for that I welcome the free day
[01:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: we have to hand them in by May 31
[01:10] <Mithrandir> pitti: on the other hand, it means money back, which is always nice.
[01:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, does it? for me it means paying all the 2005 taxes in one big chunk
[01:11] <pitti> and on top of that, an advance for Q1 and Q2 of 2006
[01:11] <Mithrandir> pitti: I did that some weeks ago and overpaid by a fair amount to be sure.
[01:11] <silbs> kgoetz: next week, probably Wed-ish
[01:12] <Usiu> Hi
[01:12] <kgoetz> silbs: thanks. i'll try and hang on that long :)
[01:12] <Usiu> Plz help how to build packages for Ubuntu on debian.. :(
[01:12] <silbs> Yagisan: we will tweak the options as we discover what combos people need. You can wait till the special request feature (next week).  You can also suggest different pre-set combinations at https://launchpad.net/products/shipit/+filebug
[01:14] <Usiu> Ok the thing is I have packages for Debian, but I have a problem with setting up pbuilder for Ubuntu, I dont have much  time to play with that... It works for me for Debian packages.. But pople are asking for Ubuntu's as well... but dependences need newer packages which are not in dapper yet..
[01:14] <Kamion> ok, seed migration to knits done, belatedly
[01:14] <dholbach> Kamion: I'll do a system-config-kickstart upload with dh_iconcache added to debian/rules - are you ok with that?
[01:15] <Kamion> dholbach: go ahead, thanks
[01:15] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks
[01:15] <Kamion> I'd been meaning to get around to that
[01:15] <dholbach> it's ok :)
[01:15] <dholbach> the list in main is 29 source packages - which is ok
[01:15] <dholbach> i'd just prefer to get it done before "restricted main uploads" phase has started
[01:18] <Kamion> janimo: could you upgrade to bzr 0.8 (if you haven't done so already) and 'bzr upgrade' the xubuntu seeds to knits? I've just upgraded all the others; see ubuntu-devel-announce@
[01:18] <janimo> Kamion: will do, thanks
[01:20] <Kamion> let me know when you've pushed that and I'll do the same to my mirror
[01:21] <Kamion> the first push will take a while, subsequent ones should be faster than they were with the previous format
[01:23] <janimo> Kamion: it will probably not happen in the next couple hours as the server with the seeds is a friends FC4, but I'll try to do it soon
[01:25] <Kamion> janimo: ok, no problem
[01:29] <jordi> Kamion: does man-db hqave an internal table of supported locales or something? Do you kknow offhand of something in it that would make it not use a "valencia_ES" locale (non-standard)?
[01:29] <jordi> Kamion: I saw your reply re: nano. I'll have a look in the evening
[01:30] <Kamion> jordi: yes, it has its own table
[01:30] <Kamion> jordi: file a Debian bug report about problems with it
[01:30] <jordi> ok
[01:31] <seb128_> Kamion: daily liveCD boots again ;)
[01:31] <seb128_> just FYI
[01:37] <Kamion> seb128_: yep, thanks - non-8.3 filenames bit me
[01:37] <Kamion> I fixed that last night
[01:37] <Kamion> (but you weren't around so I couldn't tell you at the time)
[01:37] <Keybuk> Kamion: that does seem somewhat faster
[01:38] <Kamion> a commit was reasonably fast; although I haven't tried edubuntu which has traditionally been the weirdly slow one
[01:38] <Keybuk> Riddell: actually, while you're here, kwifimanager
[01:39] <Riddell> Keybuk: demote it please
[01:39] <Keybuk> it keeps wanting to skip into universe because nothing depends on it
[01:39] <Keybuk> ok
[01:39] <Riddell> we have a better alternative (wlassistant) that's not so broken
[01:39] <Keybuk> done
[01:40] <Keybuk> janimo: ping
[01:40] <janimo> Keybuk: pong
[01:40] <Keybuk> janimo: xubuntu-artwork
[01:40] <Keybuk> it wants to live in universe too
[01:40] <Keybuk> should that not be seeded somewhere?
[01:41] <janimo> Keybuk: fine by me, it's a metapackage
[01:41] <Keybuk> which bit was fine? :)
[01:41] <janimo> depends on xubuntu-artwork-usplash which we have in main
[01:41] <Keybuk> you want it demoted?
[01:41] <janimo> being in  universe is fine :)
[01:41] <Keybuk> ok, that's easy then
[01:41] <Keybuk> yay
[01:42] <janimo> Keybuk: yes since it is not seeded. It was meant to be a metapackage for most artwork but that eventually landed in xubuntu-settings-default
[01:42] <Keybuk> that'll make anastacia very clean :p
[01:42] <Keybuk> Kamion: a push of ubuntu seed just took a second or so
[01:42] <Keybuk> I'm used to it taking at least 20 minutes
[01:42] <Keybuk> this is an "improvement"
[01:43] <janimo> hmm, if that's the case I may consider doing local edit + push instead of logging in via ssh for editing.
[01:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: :-)
[01:44] <Keybuk> lifeless: well done.  you can have my nan award for knitting
[01:45] <lifeless> danke
[01:53] <Mithrandir> Seveas: thanks for you comment re svizzer.
[01:53] <Seveas> de nada
[01:55] <janimo> Kamion: bzr upgraded. .bzr dir is also about 4 times smaller :)
[02:01] <Kamion> janimo: thanks; upgraded my mirror too
[02:04] <Kamion> Riddell: could you eyeball the ubiquity kde-ui changes I just pushed (matching similar gtkui changes)?
[02:09] <Riddell> Kamion: sure
[02:10] <Keybuk> janimo: oh, and evince-gtk needs an MIR
[02:22] <infinity> pitti: Okay, I *think* I'm on my last testbuild now... Maybe.
[02:22] <infinity> Could take me another 30 mins to correlate changelog enries with LP bugs and get all the LP bugs in the changelog...
[02:22] <infinity> I might pass on that.
[02:23] <janimo> Keybuk: what's a MIR?
[02:23] <Keybuk> janimo: MainInclusionReport
[02:24] <janimo> Keybuk: oh it had one but was postponed to the further work needed section because code duplication
[02:24] <janimo> it is mostly the evince package rebuilt with --disable-gnome
[02:24] <Keybuk> ah right
[02:24] <janimo> plus apatch which is not upstream
[02:25] <janimo> same with xubuntu-system-tools
[02:27] <Kamion> Riddell: actually, there's another couple of changes I just pushed that affect kde-ui too
[02:28] <Riddell> Kamion: looking
[02:29] <sladen> _ion: it was toned back slightly.  If you find another colour already in the palette that works better, mention it to omeg
[02:30] <_ion> I'd say any color that is a little darker.
[02:30] <_ion> Not too dark, of course.
[02:36] <infinity> pitti: I WIN!
[02:36] <infinity> pitti: Just let me polish the changelog and upload.
[02:43] <pitti> iwj: do you plan another firefox upload in the near future? I'd like to have some new CVEs retroactively added to the changelog
[02:46] <dholbach> ogra: anything new about dia?
[02:50] <iwj> pitti: I don't know if I have one planned, but if you mail them to me I'll include them if I do.
[02:50] <pitti> iwj: will do
[02:55] <Mithrandir> sivang: what kind of console do you have on your pseries?
[02:57] <KaiL> nice, Novell is working on some post-release-driver-update-support...
[03:02] <tseng> is it still the plan to drop LinuxThreads in edgy?
[03:03] <sivang> Mithrandir: HMC
[03:03] <sivang> Kamion, Mithrandir : same error as on the stipped CD - http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/error.png
[03:03] <Mithrandir> sivang: what can I plug into that?
[03:03] <sivang> Mithrandir: what do you mean ?
[03:04] <Mithrandir> sivang: I have a pseries and I have no idea how to get a console on it. :-)
[03:04] <sivang> Mithrandir: oh, nice, where did you get it from? :)
[03:05] <Mithrandir> sivang: IBM dropped it on me.
[03:05] <Mithrandir> (loan, not gift)
[03:05] <sivang> Mithrandir: oh coo, /me woudl also love one at home :)
[03:06] <sivang> Mithrandir: try to find the serial ports at the back of the machine,
[03:06] <sivang> Mithrandir: use a laptop and connect using RS232 cable
[03:06] <Mithrandir> sivang: ok, that should just work?
[03:06] <sivang> Mithrandir: power down the machine, plug out the machine from the outlest
[03:06] <sivang> Mithrandir: outet
[03:06] <sivang> Mithrandir: err, outlet! damn latency :)
[03:07] <sivang> Mithrandir: make sure you are connected with a minicom
[03:07] <Mithrandir> what settings?
[03:07] <Kamion> sivang: could you please try these three images?
[03:07] <Kamion> sivang: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/dapper-install-powerpc-stripped.iso
[03:07] <Kamion> sivang: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/yaboot-test-ordinary.iso
[03:07] <Kamion> sivang: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/yaboot-test-weird.iso
[03:07] <sivang> Kamion: all of them? :)
[03:07] <Kamion> sivang: yes please, they're 22.5MB each
[03:07] <sivang> Kamion: ah, now you're talking :)
[03:07] <Kamion> thanks
[03:08] <sivang> Mithrandir: make sure it's on 14400 N81 IIRC
[03:08] <Mithrandir> 14400 8n1?  That's weird settings, but ok, I'll try.
[03:08] <sivang> Mithrandir: shoudl work, if not reduce the baud rate to 9600
[03:09] <Mithrandir> sivang: usb-serial dongles should work fine?
[03:09] <sivang> Mithrandir: no idea :-/ I have only used RS232 wiring on both ends
[03:09] <sivang> Mithrandir: could :)
[03:09] <Mithrandir> sivang: ok, thanks.  I'll try that.
[03:12] <sivang> Mithrandir: np, let me know what you find 
[03:13] <sivang> Kamion: did ian prepare those? :)
[03:14] <Kamion> sivang: yes
[03:14] <Kamion> well, I prepared the first one
[03:19] <Riddell> Kamion: you missed a set_current_page call, but otherwise it all looks fine
[03:19] <Riddell> Kamion: I've added that and fixed a crash I made in return_to_autopartitioning
[03:19] <Riddell> so good to merge
[03:20] <janimo> ogra: hi, can you look at bug 42890 for a moment, maybe you know the fix
[03:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42890 in xubuntu-meta "Screensavers are enabled but not installed in Xubuntu Dapper" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42890
[03:23] <Kamion> Riddell: could you 'bzr upgrade' your branch to knit format, please?
[03:23] <ogra> janimo, that would be very intrusive to fix, since the default config handling is very tricky among the differnt xscreensaver packages
[03:23] <Kamion> will make merges quicker
[03:24] <janimo> ogra: so is it a known thing? what package are the selected but not installed savers in?
[03:24] <ogra> janimo, your problem is /etc/X11/app-defaults/XSceensaver
[03:25] <ogra> janimo, we dont do any preselection in the config anymore, so you get what debian enabled
[03:25] <ogra> which probably might be *all*
[03:25] <janimo> ogra, so it was done in breezy but not anymore?
[03:25] <janimo> too intrusive?
[03:26] <Riddell> Kamion: I already have
[03:26] <ogra> no need anymore, since gnome-screensaver handles the hacks through .desktop files, not thirough a user or system config
[03:26] <ogra> yes, way too intrusive at this point
[03:26] <Kamion> Riddell: not on your kubuntu.org mirror
[03:27] <janimo> ogra: ok, thanks. Although where are the screensaver that debian or uptsteam enables? for example anemone
[03:27] <ogra> you'd have to rewrite the postinst prerm scripts and also make sure the linking of the config files doesnt break on upgrades
[03:27] <Kamion> Riddell: you may need to upgrade that branch separately
[03:27] <Riddell> bzr upgrade
[03:27] <Riddell> bzr: ERROR: The branch format Bazaar-NG meta directory, format 1 is already at the most recent format.
[03:27] <Kamion> Riddell: or just rsync over the top of it this time if you prefer ...
[03:27] <Kamion> Riddell: probably bzr too old on kubuntu.org
[03:27] <Kamion> format 1 is pretty elderly
[03:27] <janimo> ogra, I am fine with leaving as is, but am curious why are these enabled, and what can be installed to have them all?
[03:27] <ogra> janimo, apt-file is your friend ;) but likely in either xscreensaver-data, -data-extras, -gl or -gl-extras
[03:28] <janimo> ogra, whenever I tried apt-file it failed to wget the package list :(
[03:28] <Riddell> Kamion: I have 0.8-0ubuntu1 installed
[03:28] <janimo> was last year though
[03:28] <Kamion> Riddell: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/espresso/ubuntu/.bzr/ definitely shows stuff like inventory.weave though
[03:29] <Kamion> oh
[03:29] <Kamion> you have knits *and* weaves in there
[03:29] <Kamion> weird
[03:30] <Kamion> maybe not using rsync --delete?
[03:30] <Riddell> mm, yes, that'll be it
[03:30] <Kamion> Riddell: heh, I'd already fixed 45396
[03:31] <Kamion> Riddell: oh, I thought on_steps_switch_page would take care of calling set_current_page, since you don't call set_current_page after doing raiseWidget elsewhere
[03:32] <Kamion> merged and pushed
[03:37] <maswan> Hmm.. I forget, do we have a ballpark date for the release? (For mirror planning over here..)
[03:37] <Mithrandir> maswan: June 1st?
[03:38] <maswan> Mithrandir: Ok. Eek? :)
[03:40] <sivang> argh. why can't perl use sys.argv like python does? 
[03:41] <Mithrandir> because that would make it harder to use @ARGV sensibly in perl?
[03:42] <sivang> Mithrandir: I can't seem to find the sensible way to do so at the mooment, probably a brain lock down.
[03:44] <Mithrandir> for $f in (@ARGV) in perl is roughly for f in sys.argv[1:]  in python
[03:45] <Kamion> except that you leave out the 'in' in perl
[03:45] <Kamion> $0 is sys.argv[0] 
[03:45] <_ion> ARGV.each {|a| ... }
[03:45] <Mithrandir> Kamion: true.
[03:45] <sivang> Kamion: weird, tried to use $0,.... but it all fails
[03:45] <sivang> that is, (if -e $1) etc..
[03:46] <Keybuk> Kamion: not to mention the "$f" :)
[03:47] <Riddell> Kamion, Mithrandir: are we doing flight 8?
[03:47] <Kamion> Riddell: no, I don't think so, not with the mandatory holiday tomorrow
[03:47] <Kamion> sivang: well that's illegal perl syntax ... 'if (-e $1)'
[03:47] <Kamion> sivang: er, and not $1 either
[03:48] <Kamion> sivang: $0 is sys.argv[0] , $ARGV[0]  is sys.argv[1] , $ARGV[1]  is sys.argv[2] , etc.
[03:48] <Kamion> $1 is something entirely different
[03:48] <Keybuk> for (@ARGV) { ... if -e }
[03:49] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: ... is valid in perl. :-)
[03:50] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/anastacia.txt
[03:50] <Keybuk> ^ ah
[03:50] <Keybuk> now, nobody upload anything and ruin it :p
[03:51] <Coyctecm> what th ehell is wrong with open office
[03:51] <Coyctecm> x64
[03:51] <sivang> Kamion, Keybuk : thanks.
[03:51] <Coyctecm> it's slow, too slow
[03:51] <_ion> coyctecm: What isn't? ;-)
[03:51] <Coyctecm> _ion: :P
[03:51] <Riddell> Kamion: is pkgsel/language-pack-patterns the choice for installing language packs?  is there any way to get kde language packs installed?
[03:52] <Keybuk> Coyctecm: you're expecting openoffice to be fast?
[03:52] <Kamion> Riddell: you mean in ubiquity?
[03:52] <Riddell> Kamion: yes
[03:52] <Kamion> Riddell: there's a bug
[03:52] <Kamion> it's all set up, but is broken for some reason
[03:52] <Kamion> I will look at it
[03:52] <Coyctecm> Keybuk: no, but with amd64 it's so damn slow. with x86 it's usable
[03:52] <Coyctecm> well...
[03:52] <Coyctecm> abiword :)
[03:52] <Keybuk> Coyctecm: there is no amd64 version of openoffice
[03:53] <Keybuk> on amd64 you are running the i386 version
[03:54] <Coyctecm> Keybuk: yes, that's true. but with x86 version of ubuntu it's faster than with x64 ubuntu. I quess it has something to do with gnu java
[03:57] <BenC> Ok, final build test for final dapper kernel is finally running, and should be finalized in about 1-2 hours, upon which I will finally upload this final kernel
[03:57] <zul> and then you can work on 2.6.16 :)
[03:57] <Kamion> well there goes my evening
[03:58] <zul> BenC: we can do some training this late afternoon as well 
[03:58] <pitti> BenC: this is finally your final finalization? :)
[03:58] <ajmitch> pitti: sounds quite final to me :)
[03:58] <Keybuk> Kamion: meh, take the evening off anyway :)
[03:58] <BenC> pitti: finality is so...finite...let's see how it goes :)
[03:58] <Keybuk> you deserve it!
[03:58] <Kamion> Keybuk: I *can't*, I have to get the final installer in
[03:59] <Keybuk> :(
[03:59] <Kamion> it is *not possible*
[03:59] <BenC> Keybuk: what's involved in the installer build...is it something I can do for you?
[03:59] <BenC> s/Keybuk/Kamion/
[03:59] <Kamion> not really, it needs me to sync in new translations which is messy
[04:01] <tepsipakki> mithrandir: the new user-setup broke preseeding "passwd/make-user boolean false"
[04:01] <tepsipakki> it still asks for the username
[04:05] <Kamion> BenC: #ubuntu-meeting
[04:06] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: nevermind.. there's the passwd/root-login now that I also need to preseed :)
[04:07] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: I'm really busy now, please file a bug if you need me to look at something.
[04:09] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: no need to, there is no bub
[04:09] <tepsipakki> _bug_
[04:09] <Mithrandir> no bubs.  check.
[04:09] <tepsipakki> :)
[04:09] <Mithrandir> :-)
[04:10] <tepsipakki> ..
[04:13] <pitti> Keybuk: can you sync from any URL or just from Debian?
[04:14] <Keybuk> I assume any URL
[04:14] <Keybuk> I've not tried it though
[04:14] <pitti> Keybuk: can you please sync http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/m/myspell-hr/myspell-hr_1.0-2.dsc to main?
[04:14] <pitti> Keybuk: I just tested the package, works fine
[04:14] <Keybuk> is there a packages file alongside that?
[04:16] <iwj> pitti: There will be another firefox it turns out.  Can you send me those CVEs ASAP if you haven't already ?
[04:16] <pitti> iwj: I didn't yet; if I prepare it right after the meeting, is that soon enough?
[04:16] <pitti> Keybuk: no, just the source
[04:18] <Keybuk> in theeeory, I do this
[04:18] <Keybuk> *hits enter*
[04:19] <iwj> pitti: Yes, that's absolutely fine.  I meant just today really; I probably won't be able to get a release out until Monday anyway.
[04:19] <iwj> Thanks.
[04:20] <pitti> alrigh, you'll have it today
[04:20] <Kamion> you can always synthesise a Sources file and sync from that ...
[04:20] <Keybuk> ok, that didn't work
[04:20] <pitti> Keybuk: if it's too much trouble, I just do a normal upload, I was just curious
[04:20] <Keybuk> Kamion: I have a sources file, can't work out how to sync from it though
[04:20] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh, it needs to be in sync-source.py
[04:21] <Kamion> there's a big dictionary of URLs and stuff
[04:21] <Keybuk> yeah
[04:22] <Keybuk> I'm just trying again now after copying and modifying it
[04:22] <Keybuk> well, blow me, it worked
[04:23] <pitti> Keybuk: great, thanks! I'll update l-support-hr then
[04:26] <bddebian> Howdy peoples
[04:26] <yogi>  I have asked --more than once or twice-- about wmv9 codec on the e-mail forum & received no response, so am hoping you can help.  It seems that no video player (kaffeine, xine, totem) can/will play wmv9 encoded videos.  I have received same from a friend running SuSE & am wondering if or why ubuntu does not seem to support this...?
[04:26] <Keybuk> yogi: ubuntu does not support this
[04:27] <yogi> keybuk:What the devil...?  Are we going to let SuSE eat our lunch?!
[04:28] <Keybuk> yogi: yes
[04:28] <pitti> yogi: if you are on i386, installing the windows DLLs might help; for !i386, you are screwwed
[04:28] <thoreauputic> yogi: you have w32codecs installed?
[04:29] <yogi> Keybuk:(1)How come? (2)I'm on a P4 (installed i386 kubuntu) (3)I have w32codecs installed, yes.
[04:29] <Keybuk> yogi: in all seriousness, unless Microsoft give us the source to and/or a patent licence for the WMV9 decoder, then we can't ship it
[04:29] <Keybuk> we have no particular desire to go to jail
[04:30] <HiddenWolf> yogi: install totem with the xine-backend/libs and w32codecs or gstreamer-0.10-pitfdll and w32codecs
[04:30] <yogi> Do tell.  Hm.  I wonder if SuSE paid the royalty.  They don't support DVD reading, which made me really sit up & take note when I got the wmv9 file. Their xine, etc, come broken right out of the box.
[04:30] <Keybuk> yogi: they may have done
[04:31] <yogi> HiddenWolf:Okay... will give that a shot.  Did it work?
[04:31] <HiddenWolf> yogi: that works, better with xine than with gstreamer, but you'll have to pull the w32codecs from somewhere
[04:31] <yogi> Keybuk: Possibly...  Thanks for the info, at any rate.  I'm not about to leave kubuntu on that flimsy excuse.  This is the first distro that hasn't broken each & every time it is updated. :-)
[04:31] <HiddenWolf> yogi: this isn't apropriate for -devel tho.
[04:32] <Keybuk> yogi: certainly if you don't mind breaking the law, there's no reason you can't grab the DLLs and use those
[04:32] <Keybuk> that works on i386
[04:32] <Keybuk> but sadly not on amd64 :(
[04:32] <Keybuk> which, logistically speaking, is not ideal
[04:32] <kgoetz> er....
[04:32] <yogi> HiddenWolf:Thanks.  I wondered if it was appropriate... last ditch effort since I could get an anser nowhere else.  I tried other avenues first, of course.
[04:32] <Riddell> yogi: try installing libxine-extracodecs
[04:33] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: that depends on the law. :)
[04:33] <yogi> Riddell:Roger.  Thanks.  I may not have that installed... though I thought I did.  Will check.
[04:33] <yogi> Have a wonderful day, all. :-)
[04:36] <pitti> Keybuk: seems that the sync has worked, I got an 'is NEW' mail
[04:37] <Keybuk> oh, I SUPPOSED you want me to do THAT now, don't YOU!
[04:37] <Keybuk> I only emptied this damned queue this morning
[04:39] <pitti> Keybuk: it's not that urgent, but if it could be newed today, that would rock
[04:39] <Keybuk> done :p
[04:39] <pitti> Keybuk: anastacia output looks great now!
[04:40] <pitti> Keybuk: wrt the two last entries, I wouldn't like to see them in main; it's hideous source package duplication
[04:40] <Keybuk> aye, I saw your comments already
[04:41] <janimo> pitti, instead of evince-gtk should I write an MIR for epdfview then?
[04:41] <janimo> and it's not that hideous, just duplication :)
[04:42] <bddebian> Who is: Bjoern Brauel 
[04:42] <pitti> janimo: if nothing else helps, then so be it; I can live with evince-gtk...
[04:42] <bddebian> ?
[04:42] <pitti> janimo: I just hoped for a better upstream solution
[04:42] <pitti> janimo: let's talk about this after the meeting
[04:43] <janimo> pitti, upstream are not serious imho. after they said cointinue with the patch it is interesting, they truned around and gave me a great technical argument: 'it's better with gnome'
[04:43] <pitti> bah
[04:44] <bddebian> heh
[04:44] <janimo> they talk about maintainabilkity issues because of the ifdefs, but they have ifdef on libgnomeprint
[04:44] <janimo> which is a single small lib and a lot morelikely to be around than gnome libs
[04:44] <janimo> oh well
[04:45] <janimo> meanwhile I get mailed personally for keeping the patch uptodate wrt CVS by various peoppl interested in  it for fbdev,windows etc :(
[04:47] <seb128> janimo: not nice to bash on upstream like that
[04:47] <seb128> janimo: they are just few people and busy
[04:47] <janimo> seb128: it';s not bashing, I am telling what I have been told
[04:48] <seb128> janimo: and evince is the a GNOME project, you can't blame them to not want to spend their time to get GNOME away for it
[04:48] <seb128> janimo: "upstream are not serious imho"
[04:48] <janimo> busy people saying NO upfront is a lot better than people saying yes and after work hav=s been done saying no
[04:48] <janimo> or just not responding
[04:48] <seb128> janimo: did you get a reply from the exact same person?
[04:48] <janimo> seb128:  yes, Nick
[04:48] <janimo> the other's don;t even comment
[04:49] <lamont> Keybuk: heh
[04:49] <janimo> last september when I first asked about the feasability of such a port jblandford said it's too much work and not recommended
[04:49] <seb128> Nick? I'm not sure than this guy is upstream
[04:49] <seb128> he's a busy guy
[04:49] <janimo> after a few days it was done, being my firts contact with glib/gtk
[04:49] <janimo> so not that hard
[04:49] <seb128> he didn't do a lot on evince for some months now
[04:49] <janimo> Nickolay Shmiryev
[04:50] <Keybuk> lamont: @ ?
[04:50] <janimo> I know blandford is busy
[04:50] <seb128> he's upstream ;)
[04:50] <lamont> your discussion with infinity wrt coordinated  uploads
[04:50] <janimo> just saying they dismiss this issue woithout _real_ techincal arguments
[04:50] <seb128> anyway I think they probably don't care about making it build without GNOME since that's a GNOME project
[04:50] <seb128> sure they have not
[04:50] <seb128> they just have better to do
[04:50] <janimo> telling people 'use gnome you'll like it' is not always the right thing to say
[04:50] <seb128> and don't really care of anti-GNOME people
[04:51] <seb128> telling to GNOME upstream "GNOME sucks" is not really too
[04:51] <janimo> seb128: who are anti-GNOMEpeople?
[04:51] <janimo> and who said GNOME sucks?
[04:51] <seb128> people who want to get GNOME out of the code :p
[04:51] <janimo> I think there are waaaay to many hotheads in both gnome and kde camps who on hearing anyone mention the other start fibrilating and putting words in others mouths
[04:52] <janimo> I am not anti GNOME but they have responded to me as if I was
[04:52] <seb128> that's not that true for GNOME
[04:53] <seb128> people don't start on KDE as soon it's mentioned
[04:53] <janimo> seb128: it is not for gnome as a whole. It is so very true for some devs
[04:53] <seb128> but they just don't care
[04:54] <janimo> seb128: come on, even to you when I mention anything xfce (and more so some moths ago), you don't always read the whole sentence and answer some stock 'go away gnome hater' :)
[04:54] <seb128> not really
[04:54] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:54] <jdub> guys, guys
[04:54] <seb128> I just hate to have overwork because we are trying to make GNOME apps stop using GNOME
[04:54] <janimo> I encountered this with some xfce upstream poeple too so it's all ok
[04:54] <jdub> hack on ridley, make the gnome platform suck less :)
[04:54] <seb128> hey jdub ;)
[04:55] <jdub> we can dodge all of this crap soon
[04:55] <seb128> jdub: when we will be here GTK will be too heavy for those xfce people :p
[04:55] <jdub> heh
[04:55] <janimo> seb128: yup, that's why I never whined or made someone work, but did it myself
[04:55] <seb128> janimo: even if you do yourself we are in a situation where gnumeric, etc are not syncable on Debian now
[04:55] <kgoetz> hi jdub
[04:56] <janimo> seb128: Ray dassen said he'd sync gnumeric from ubuntu, but not do the changes himself
[04:56] <janimo> seb128: as for not compiling with gnome libs, as I said above, evince does have a configure switch for libgnomeprint. How do you explain that?
[04:57] <seb128> GTK does printing now
[04:57] <seb128> so it's fair to not build with deprecated lib :p
[04:57] <jdub> hi kgoetz 
[04:58] <kgoetz> :)
[04:58] <janimo> seb128: it's not fair to config a lib which is so small and spinkle ifdefs around, and in the same time say we won;t block-iifdef the rest of ~30 libs 
[04:58] <seb128> jdub: heh
[04:58] <jsgotangco> oohh jdub digs spanking
[04:59] <janimo> jdub: ridley is still far (>1 year I'd say) from making these go away
[05:00] <hunger> Any idea how I can get CLOSE_SESSIONS back into /etc/login.defs? libpam-mount doesn't make too much sense without that.
[05:01] <Mithrandir> echo CLOSE_SESSIONS >> /etc/login.defs ?
[05:01] <hunger> Mithrandir: It is marked as obsolete in dapper.
[05:01] <hunger> Mithrandir: So I guess it is not that simple.
[05:01] <pitti> hunger: hm, obsolete means it should still work?
[05:02] <hunger> pitti: "These options are no more handled by shadow." does not sound like those will still work.
[05:02] <pitti> oh, hm
[05:04] <pitti> mdz: argh, I'm afraid I might not manage to finish tbird-locales update today; would next week be enough?
[05:05] <mdz> pitti: I don't know what's involved; send email?
[05:05] <pitti> mdz: I start today, and possibly continue tomorrow, but it takes a fair amount of testing time
[05:05] <mdz> pitti: if it's 100% safe and we are building a new candidate anyway, perhaps
[05:05] <pitti> mdz: update all the xpis to 1.5.0.2 version and test them
[05:09] <hunger> pitti: According to the Changelog of login "CLOSE_SESSIONS" is always used now, so the config option was removed.
[05:09] <pitti> hunger: oh, so it resolved itself into thin air? :)
[05:10] <ogra> lol
[05:11] <Kamion> seb128: I meant like the way installation-guide-* is unpacked into /doc/install/ on our CD images so that you can read it before installation
[05:11] <hunger> pitti: Yes... so I must have messed something else up to break unmounting of my pam-mount stuff:-)
[05:11] <ogra> mdz, i think its fixed, Keybuk saw that the environment gets filtered before the var is even used
[05:11] <ogra> (gnome-screensaver that is)
[05:11] <seb128> Kamion: ah, ok
[05:12] <ogra> mdz, so it turns out to be a one line change to get the screensaver fixed for the liveCD :)
[05:16] <Keybuk> ogra: yeah, definitely fixes it
[05:17] <ogra> yep
[05:19] <jsgotangco> goodnight
[05:23] <Riddell> pitti: did you pick up on the langauge-pack-kde-xx issue?
[05:23] <pitti> Riddell: I don't know about that, what's the problem?
[05:23] <Riddell> pitti: kde needs an entry.desktop file in /usr/share/locale-langpacks/xx ...
[05:24] <Riddell> pitti: that's only there if there's a kde-i18n-xx package to extract it from
[05:24] <pitti> Riddell: right, that shuold be there for most packages already
[05:24] <Riddell> pitti: but people have been translating in rosetta in langauges that don't have kde-i18n-xx and so miss the entry.desktop file
[05:24] <pitti> Riddell: and I added the zh_TW one today
[05:24] <pitti> Riddell: do you have a list of the missing ones?
[05:25] <Riddell> no, was about to go through them all and check
[05:29] <Keybuk> ah, comedy
[05:30] <Keybuk> sudden unexpected downpour
[05:30] <ogra> hehe
[05:34] <pitti> mdz: nevermind, I'll do my best to finish the tbird locale stuff today
[05:35] <pitti> infinity: bah, 1.5.0.2 source is not even there yet :(
[05:36] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, I'm seeing that...
[05:37] <pitti> infinity: how much can we trust the upstream XPIs to actually work?
[05:37] <infinity> pitti: The fact that I missed the published run 1.5 hours ago by all of 2 minutes was irritating.
[05:37] <pitti> infinity: I have the new tbird-locales package ready, but I didn't test the debs yet
[05:37] <infinity> pitti: I dunno.  You tested all the 1.5 ones.  Did they all work?
[05:37] <pitti> yes
[05:37] <infinity> That's about the best answer you're going to get, then. :)
[05:38] <infinity> I expect most of them didn't even change.
[05:38] <Kamion> mdz: I now know roughly how to fix the fact that if you select the auto-resize option in partman, other partitions don't get automounted
[05:38] <pitti> infinity: one possibility is to assume the best, upload, and fix possible breakage in a followup upload
[05:38] <Kamion> mdz: unfortunately it's not entirely simple
[05:38] <infinity> I doubt any strings changed in Tbird itself.
[05:38] <infinity> pitti: If one of us remembers to go and test all the debs later, I'm cool with that approach.
[05:38] <Kamion> mdz: given that breezy had this bug too, I'm inclined to defer it and do it first thing edgy now that I actually understand it, if you agree
[05:38] <mdz> Kamion: what's the issue?
[05:38] <pitti> infinity: I will do
[05:38] <bddebian> Kamion: Thx for all the syncs/removals, etc
[05:39] <Kamion> mdz: when partman does autopartitioning, it clears out all the old state that you selected in the manual partitioner, to avoid serious complications if they overlap in weird ways (e.g. two mountpoints the same)
[05:39] <infinity> pitti: Since there's no correlation whatsoever between upstream XPI versions and the source package version, it's nice and trivial for you to roll back one or two broken ones, so I say "go for it"
[05:39] <Kamion> mdz: unfortunately that includes the preset /media/* mount points
[05:39] <pitti> infinity: I agree
[05:39] <Kamion> bddebian: no problem, needed to catch up
[05:39] <pitti> infinity: since the current debs won't work at all, it can't be a regression :)
[05:40] <mdz> Kamion: if you're not comfortable with fixing it at this point, I'm with you
[05:40] <Kamion> mdz: the fix is to just do the automounting again after applying the autopartitioning recipe, but I either have to duplicate a big wodge of code, or move it to somewhere common
[05:40] <bddebian> Kamion: Do you know if you have more?  I thought I had some for libspoon-perl, libspork-perl etc?  Or maybe they are still UVFs?
[05:41] <Kamion> probably move it to an update.d script protected by an "only run once" flag that we clear out on autopartitioning
[05:41] <Kamion> but yeah, it's too late really, and for a non-regression I think I'll leave it
[05:41] <Kamion> bddebian: I believe the archive admin queue is pretty much clear now; I certainly don't remember seeing the ones you mention
[05:42] <bddebian> Kamion: OK, thx, I'll check
[05:44] <mdz> gar, debconf network has just gone back to shit mode
[05:46] <infinity> 15:03:13 ERROR   Failure processing queue_item 33675
[05:46] <infinity>  -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/2732016/7GJT1LOnsOKQGxmoLcyhgJDEsQy.txt (ERROR:  could not serialize access due to concurrent update
[05:46] <infinity> \o/
[05:47] <mdz> infinity: one for #launchpad perhaps?
[05:48] <infinity> mdz: I suspect the next publisher run will go fine anyway.
[05:49] <infinity> (And there are no soyuz folk around at the moment)
[05:49] <infinity> Kamion: I need to crash (40 hours up now, whoops)... Can you watch the next publisher run and see if it does that again?
[05:51] <Kamion> infinity: ok
[05:57] <Riddell> pitti: lanaguges missing an entry.desktop file are am az be co fa fo gl hr id ka km ko ku lo lv mn ms mt no rw sq ss th uz ve xh zu
[05:57] <Riddell> pitti: what's the best form for me to give them to you in?
[05:59] <sivang>  Kamion -weird does not work, moving to the other 2
[06:13] <phanatic> pitti: bug 45144 - i've uploaded a possible fix. if you have some time, please check it. thanks!
[06:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45144 in sysinfo "sysinfo returns garbage when opened without gcc installed" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45144
[06:13] <sivang> Kamion: -ordinary also errors same way
[06:16] <zul> pitti: i can take a look at it tonight if you want for the sysinfo
[06:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: still around?
[06:18] <Kamion> sivang: damn, might be worth testing breezy as well when you have time to see if that works ...
[06:19] <Kamion> bddebian: won't be me, I imagine
[06:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I need a casper upload RSN
[06:19] <bddebian> Kamion: What do you think the possibility of getting a Universe archive admin might be?
[06:20] <bddebian> Obviously not for Dapper :-)
[06:20] <sivang> Kamion: can't we just bug fedora people to let us into the correct magic for booting there? :)
[06:20] <sivang> or to hand hold us until we're on our feet..
[06:22] <Kamion> bddebian: requires significant improvements to the Soyuz UI; once that's done I expect we'll look into it
[06:23] <Kamion> because at present archive administration involves shell access to the master archive system and essentially total archive write privileges
[06:23] <Kamion> needs to be doable remotely before we can farm it out reasonably
[06:24] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[06:25] <bddebian> Kamion: Fair enough, thx
[06:26] <sladen> ...how do you debug an application that uses ptrace...?!
[06:33] <sivang> Kamion: now testing the last -stripped
[06:34] <Kamion> I doubt it will differ from -ordinary
[06:34] <sivang> Kamion: yes, it did not. failed the same :-(
[06:34] <Kamion> damn
[06:35] <Kamion> well, with any luck the yaboot/gcc-3.3 thing will at least fix G3s; we'll see
[06:35] <bddebian> yaboot ugh :-(
[06:35] <sivang> Kamion: you mean, it needs to be built with 3.3 to work ?
[06:35] <sivang> (rather then 4.x)
[06:35] <pitti> Riddell: that's fine, I add it to my todo list
[06:36] <pitti> zul: that would be great!
[06:36] <Kamion> sivang: I don't know
[06:37] <Kamion> sivang: that's what I'm trying to find out
[06:37] <pitti> zul: I have some nitpicks, I'll answer in the bug
[06:37] <sits> sladen: interesting question...
[06:38] <pitti> zul: answered
[06:38] <sits> sladen: I guess you need a kernel debugger
[06:38] <sivang> Kamion: would you think there would be any point in checking IBM's docs for an example/suggestion how to configure yaboot to boot there?
[06:38] <Kamion> sivang: no
[06:38] <Kamion> I think it extremely unlikely that anything useful would be found there
[06:38] <zul> pitti: great ill take a look at it tonight
[06:38] <Kamion> I mean don't let me stop you if you want to
[06:39] <pitti> Riddell: jeez, that's a huge list :(
[06:39] <sivang> well, I don't want to waste my time there if we already have all the right mkisofs flags and yaboot config set, and are puzzled by why it won't find boot.msg or boot, just if we're not sure about everything :)
[06:40] <Riddell> pitti: most of them have entry.desktop files in SVN that I'm extracting
[06:40] <Kamion> sivang: I'm sorry, I just can't deal with it right now :(
[06:40] <pitti> Riddell: so for this list, the kde-i18n-XX package has entry.desktop, the flag picture, and so on, but l-pack-kde-XX-base hasn't?
[06:41] <sivang> Kamion: sure thing, I apologize for having bugged you even. let's talk about this after release :)
[06:41] <Kamion> if the possible fix we had in hand had fixed it, that would've been great, but ...
[06:41] <Kamion> sivang: I'm still interested to know whether breezy boots
[06:41] <Riddell> pitti: no, for this list the KDE translations is below the level needed for KDE to release a kde-i18n-xx, so there is no package with the required entry.desktop file
[06:42] <pitti> Riddell: aaah, I see; that explains the issue
[06:42] <sivang> Kamion: I'll have an answer for you next sunday then. 
[06:42] <sivang> s/next/up-coming/
[06:42] <sladen> sits: it's working now.  It injects some rootkit into the parent process to make it chdir().  *evilgrin*...
[06:43] <sladen> sits: or some reason keybuk said he wanted a  /bin/cd  to speed up dpatch
[06:43] <Kamion> sivang: thanks
[06:45] <sivang> Kamion: you're more then welcome.
[06:46] <sivang> using wget -c http://releases.ubuntu.com/5.10/ubuntu-5.10-install-powerpc.iso
[06:46] <sivang> hope this is okay (the url)
[06:46] <Riddell> pitti: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/lang-extras.tar.gz  that's from KDE's SVN for a good number of them
[06:47] <Riddell> the rest will just have to do with simple entry.desktop files if you can make them
[06:47] <pitti> Riddell: thanks, I'll add them
[06:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: [fairly urgent]  could you please merge and upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/casper/preseed/ ? Thanks
[06:50] <pitti> Riddell: hm, they just have the language name, but not a full locale
[06:50] <pitti> Riddell: hm, ok, that should be fine
[06:50] <Kamion> Riddell: ^-- should fix KDE language pack installation in ubiquity, along with a cdimage fix I made recently
[06:51] <Riddell> Kamion: excellent, thanks
[06:52] <Kamion> I think decent handling of install.py crashes will just have to wait until after dapper now :(
[06:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, willdo in a second.
[06:58] <Kamion> thanks
[06:58] <pitti> Riddell: I added your tarball, that leaves us with 4 missing ones
[06:59] <Riddell> pitti: want me to make up simple entry.desktop files for them?
[06:59] <pitti> Riddell: that would be nice
[06:59] <zul> mdz: ping
[06:59] <pitti> Riddell: is 'charset' important?
[07:00] <Riddell> I think it defaults to utf-8
[07:01] <pitti> Riddell: today's packs are already built. I'll test the ones from tomorrow or Saturday and if they are good, ask cprov to upload them during the weekend, so that we have good ones at Monday; does that work for you?
[07:01] <mdz> zul: yes?
[07:01] <zul> mdz: sorry unping
[07:01] <Riddell> pitti: that's good for me
[07:02] <pitti> carlos: any chance to further reduce the number of missing domains until tomorrow?
[07:03] <Riddell> pitti: what are the 4 you're missing?
[07:03] <pitti> Riddell: am co no ve
[07:04] <sivang> does anybody know if usermod -d $HOME will create the hom folder even if this is a new user and not changed one? after invetigating some more around bug #18632 it appears that the problem is the s-t-b thinks that the last user-conf xml entry (holding the new user after another one was removed) belong to the removed users, and uses usermod instead of adduser on the current user details. this results in the home dir not created. 
[07:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 18632 in gnome-system-tools "Users and groups-tool failed to create home folder after deleting user and adding a new user in the same operation" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/18632
[07:05] <sivang> now acocording to usermod's manpage, -d $HOME will instruct it to create the home. checking the code I see that s-t-b does use this flag
[07:06] <mjr> 33
[07:06] <Riddell> pitti: looks like kde has 'no' as 'nn' and 'nb'
[07:07] <Riddell> Mithrandir: what's the relationship between those languages?
[07:08] <Mithrandir> nn and nb are forms of no, but no as a language code is deprecated and shouldn't have been used in any translations for the last couple of years.
[07:08] <Riddell> pitti: and ve is ven
[07:08] <sivang>      $command = "$cmd_usermod" . " -d \'" . $$new_data[$users_prop_map{"home"}]  .
[07:08] <Riddell> ah, but still no ven release from KDE
[07:14] <pitti> Riddell: ok, so AFAICS the lack of a desktop file in -no is just fine then?
[07:17] <Riddell> pitti: does rosetta export to no or nn and nb?
[07:17] <Riddell> pitti: I've added am co ve http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/lang-extras.tar.gz
[07:18] <Riddell> oh, we have language packs for all three no nn nb codes
[07:18] <Riddell> that's fine, the person can just pick the norwegian of preference and ignore no
[07:19] <pitti> Riddell: right
[07:20] <phanatic> pitti: applied your suggestions to bug 45144
[07:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45144 in sysinfo "sysinfo returns garbage when opened without gcc installed" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45144
[07:21] <pitti> phanatic: great!
[07:21] <mdz> 79% packet loss
[07:22] <bddebian> Hmm, I'm not getting any accept/reject messages.  Is that known?
[07:22] <mdz> so if I don't respond, that's why ;-)
[07:22] <pitti> Riddell: added
[07:23] <pitti> Riddell: shall I crank up new daily builds right now for you to test? or will tomorrow's be good enough for you?
[07:23] <Riddell> pitti: great, our Georgian translators will be most pleased
[07:23] <Riddell> I'm about to go out canoeing, tomorrow is fine
[07:23] <pitti> alright
[07:23] <pitti> I'm off to the cinema, too
[07:25] <pitti> BenC: the current kernel does not list CVE numbers; can you mark the fixed ones in the wiki page so that I can mark them as fixed manually in ubuntu-cve?
[07:27] <Riddell> whoever's approving NEW queue: can you tell me what happened to kexi-mdb-driver?
[07:27] <BenC> pitti: Yeah, that's what I was going to do
[07:27] <Kamion> Riddell: nothing in particular, I'll do it now
[07:28] <Kamion> sorry for the delay
[07:28] <Riddell> Kamion: ah, still there, that's fine
[07:29] <Kamion> accepted
[07:30] <Riddell> thanks Kamion 
[07:47] <BenC> Kamion: linux-source should show some finished builds in the next hour, and I'll upload l-r-m and l-m
[07:47] <desrt> mm.. new linux-source
[07:48] <desrt> BenC; my employer compels me to ask if it contains hugepages
[07:49] <BenC> desrt: damnit...too much going on and I forgot...really sorry dude
[07:49] <BenC> I can put it in for the first update
[07:49] <desrt> as in, won't make it for dapper?
[07:53] <jdong|coreduo> BenC: dapper will get updates?
[07:54] <BenC> desrt: it wont be in the initial dapper release
[07:54] <desrt> BenC; :(
[07:54] <desrt> BenC; any idea how long the wait will be?
[07:54] <BenC> jdong: there are always security updates, and we tend to sneak some minor things in with them
[07:54] <jdong|coreduo> BenC: I see
[07:54] <desrt> if too long i'll roll my own
[07:55] <BenC> desrt: I don't expect more than a week or so before pitti will be emailing me with some dapper CVE's :)
[07:55] <jdong|coreduo> BenC: do you know if we'll be using dapper-updates for providing bugfixes in general?
[07:55] <desrt> ok.  cool.
[07:55] <desrt> does this mean that dapper will be shipping with a -23 ABI?
[07:55] <BenC> jdong: outside my realm of knowledge
[07:55] <dholbach> jdong|coreduo: for eyeballable, critical fixes
[07:55] <BenC> desrt: yeah, -23 is the final ABI
[07:55] <desrt> BenC; awesome.  looks like i win the pool :)
[07:56] <jdong|coreduo> dholbach: cool
[07:56] <dholbach> jdong|coreduo: dapper-backports for the general "good to have / user cry for" backports
[07:56] <BenC> desrt: there's a pool, and no one let me play it? :)
[07:56] <desrt> BenC; you're not allowed :)
[07:56] <jdong|coreduo> dholbach: wonderful :). I'm pumped :)
[07:57] <HiddenWolf> BenC: Congrats on the last? kernel. :)
[07:58] <BenC> thanks, and congrats to everyone else for dapper
[07:58] <BenC> the whole ubuntu team defnitely rocked this release
[07:59] <HiddenWolf> BenC: still rocking, really. :)
[07:59] <jdong|coreduo> BenC: likewise; congrats on the kernel work. You guys have done a great job with this release
[07:59] <Mithrandir> Kamion: uploaded, finally.
[08:02] <mdz> janimo: is xubuntu-docs (and thus the xubuntu livefs build) fixed now?
[08:02] <janimo> mdz: should be as of last night
[08:03] <janimo> mdz: did not check the actual livecd build log though
[08:03] <janimo> mdz, yes. http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/liveLogs/dapper/xubuntu/20060518/livecd-20060518-i386.out
[08:03] <mdz> janimo: great, thanks
[08:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: thanks
[08:05] <desrt> ogra; ping
[08:05] <ogra> desrt, pong
[08:05] <ogra> oh, right
[08:05] <desrt> :)
[08:05] <ogra> thanks fotr reminding
[08:05] <desrt> i have a new version of the patch
[08:05] <desrt> should i put it on launchpad?
[08:05] <ogra> yeah
[08:05] <desrt> k
[08:05] <desrt> uploading now
[08:05] <ogra> great, thanks
[08:06] <Kamion> meh, publisher still blowing up
[08:08] <BenC> Kamion: ok, amd64 built successfully, the rest should follow soon, uploading l-r-m and l-m now
[08:09] <Kamion> yep, amd64 already newed :)
[08:09] <jdong|coreduo> Kamion: does Backports go through ubuntu-archive now?
[08:09] <Kamion> publisher seems to have refrained from blowing up this time
[08:09] <Kamion> jdong|coreduo: if there's a process for it, I'm not aware of it
[08:10] <Kamion> I suspect the auto-backport tool has not been ported to soyuz yet
[08:10] <jdong|coreduo> Kamion: who should I go to to figure this out?
[08:10] <Kamion> elmo, cprov, or Kinnison
[08:10] <Kamion> (Kinnison is on holiday this week so not him)
[08:10] <BenC> Kamion: everything uploaded...I leave it in your capable hands now
[08:10] <BenC> Kamion: ping me if you need anything
[08:11] <Kamion> righto, thanks
[08:17] <setuid> I'm trying to take an upstream kernel from kernel.org and build it as an installable .deb package with the exact same features/.config as my running Dapper 2.6.15-22 kernel. What is the best way to do this? 
[08:17] <mdke> setuid: see the numerous guides on the wiki. If in doubt, ask in #ubuntu
[08:18] <desrt> setuid; you should know that the ubuntu kernels have some extensive patching done to them so an upstream vanilla kernel will, by definition, not have the same features
[08:18] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelBuildpackageHowto
[08:18] <setuid> I know there's a dance with the config in /boot, renaming some dirs in the debian source tree, then copying ./debian recursively into my clean tree. 
[08:18] <setuid> But its not straighforward. 
[08:19] <BenC> setuid: no, you are wrong so far :)
[08:19] <setuid> desrt: Its specifically the patches I want to remove from the build process
[08:19] <BenC> setuid: cp /boot/config-`uname -r` .config
[08:19] <setuid> BenC: Then the people in #ubuntu+1 are wrong, as of a month ago 
[08:19] <BenC> make silentoldconfig
[08:19] <desrt> setuid; file bugs :)
[08:19] <BenC> make-kpkg kernel-image
[08:19] <setuid> BenC: And the weird initrd that dapper seems to require (even though in 10+ years of using Linux, I have never ONCE run a distro that required an initrd) 
[08:19] <desrt> woh.  that's easier than i thought.
[08:19] <BenC> you will lose _a lot_ of features (mainly drivers)
[08:20] <setuid> Why would I lose drivers, if the kernel .config turns them on? 
[08:20] <BenC> setuid: weird? initrd's are the prefered way to boot
[08:20] <jdong|coreduo> setuid: initramfs? It's one command to generate an initramfs!
[08:20] <BenC> setuid: because the vanilla kernel doesn't have all the drivers we do
[08:20] <desrt> setuid; because the drivers do not _exist_ in the kernel
[08:20] <setuid> BenC: initrd is not required, unless you are booting from esoteric hardware (booting from RAID, or AFS or such) 
[08:20] <setuid> desrt: Oh, binary-only stuff, sure. 
[08:20] <setuid> I don't use that. 
[08:20] <desrt> ...
[08:20] <desrt> setuid; are you trying to troll?
[08:20] <BenC> sedtuid: it's not a requirement, it's the prefered way to boot a system, especially a distro
[08:21] <BenC> setuid: no, not binary-only stuff, real open-source drivers that are just not in the vanilla kernel
[08:21] <setuid> Not at all, I've been building thousands of kernels for Debian for years (I _did_ write the HOWTO on it), so I'm not exactly a stranger to this. It works cleanly everywhere, but Dapper (and Red Hat) are very unique beasts. 
[08:21] <setuid> BenC: My Thinkpad does not require any non-kernel drivers. 
[08:21] <setuid> So that's fine. 
[08:22] <BenC> setuid: if you wrote a HOWTO for Debian, then how do you not know how to use make-kpkg for all of this already?
[08:22] <setuid> Upstream vanilla kernel source works fine here, just that it refuses to boot because of the weird hooks Ubuntu has put into the initrd
[08:22] <mdke> setuid: regardless of how good you are, you're still off topic
[08:22] <setuid> BenC: Kernel howto, not kernel howto for Debian
[08:22] <BenC> yeah, that's true too
[08:22] <setuid> mdke: How is Ubuntu kernel development off topic here? 
[08:23] <desrt> setuid; how about modules for the root filesystem so that they need to have drivers for every filesystem/scsicard/etc/etc built-in to the kernel that everyone who runs ubuntu is then forced to use?
[08:23] <mdke> setuid: you're asking for help with building a kernel
[08:23] <BenC> you aren't talking about development of anything
[08:23] <mdke> setuid: #ubuntu can definitely help. As for this channel, see the penultimate paragraph of https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-May/000136.html
[08:23] <BenC> nor are you talking about the ubuntu kernel
[08:23] <Kamion> the reason we use an initramfs is because there is no other reasonable way to build a generic kernel that supports all the stuff our users might try to use, simultaneously
[08:23] <setuid> I'm not asking how to build a kernel, I'm asking how to build a proper kernel package for Ubuntu, so I can test our usb drivers against it. 
[08:23] <setuid> er, usb support (not drivers)
[08:23] <mdke> setuid: right, it's the same thing. Go to #ubuntu
[08:23] <Kamion> if you're building a custom kernel that has just what you want, sure, you don't need an initramfs then
[08:23] <BenC> setuid: why not build the drivers against the stock ubuntu kernel?
[08:24] <setuid> BenC: Because the kernels in Ubuntu (and most of the packages) are several months behind current
[08:24] <BenC> setuid: all you need for that is the linux-headers-2.6.15-* packages
[08:24] <setuid> udev, libusb, things like that are quite a bit behind most other distros
[08:24] <setuid> And the kernels are a month or two back 
[08:24] <BenC> take it to #ubuntu or #ubuntu-kernel
[08:24] <setuid> Yep, will do 
[08:24] <setuid> Didn't know about #ubuntu-kernel
[08:25] <mdke> phew
[08:25] <setuid> #ubuntu is all entry-level noobs, hard to cut through the noise to get useful responses
[08:25] <desrt> something to add to the HOWTO, perhaps :)
[08:25] <setuid> desrt: Where's the #ubuntu-channel-fu HOWTO? 
[08:25] <desrt> setuid; on the web?
[08:25] <mdke> setuid: on the wiki
[08:25] <setuid> Teh Intarweb? ;) 
[08:25] <setuid> I'll poke around in there
[08:26] <desrt> setuid; try googling "ubuntu irc channels"
[08:26] <desrt> you'd find https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat pretty quickly
[08:27] <mdke> Kamion: spiv has told me that he's got a cvs file filled with all people who have edited the wiki and their email addresses, ready for sending the WikiLicensing email. What shall I do with it when he sends it to me, who is a good person to send the email?
[08:27] <Kamion> mdke: oh, grief, I'd forgotten entirely about that
[08:27] <mdke> yeah, time has gone by
[08:28] <Kamion> mdke: would you be willing to do it? I see no reason why you'd be inappropriate
[08:28] <Kamion> you've been spearheading the effort
[08:28] <mdke> Kamion: sure, no problem. I have the text, after all
[08:28] <desrt> GFDL4U?
[08:28] <mdke> desrt: you'll have to read the spec.
[08:29] <mdke> wiki:WikiLicensing
[08:29] <lemsx1> can i pick somebody's brains for a second? i have an issue with applications running from initramfs that is driving me nutz
[08:30] <Kamion> mdke: thanks
[08:30] <lemsx1> when Ubuntu's unicode_start (or stop) app is launched, it seems to corrupt something that causes the whole boot process to stop (that's early rcS.d level)
[08:30] <desrt> oh man.  public domain.
[08:31] <desrt> mdke; people will scream.  loud.
[08:31] <Kamion> can we not go over this *yet again*?
[08:31] <mdke> desrt: feel free to discuss in /query or #ubuntu-docs or something
[08:32] <mdke> bearing in mind again https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-May/000136.html
[08:32] <lemsx1> infinity: ping
[08:32] <desrt> mdke; i don't care.  i'm only a trivial contributor to the wiki.  just saying, others probably will care.
[08:32] <Kamion> lemsx1: that's well post-initramfs
[08:32] <desrt> (end of topic)
[08:32] <mdke> ok
[08:33] <lemsx1> Kamion: yes. it makes me think that a filehandle is kept open from the daemon that is launched (our process) inside initramfs by the time that rcS.d keymap.sh or whatever is executed
[08:34] <lemsx1> Kamion: i know you guys don't have those issues with USplash, and the only difference between usplash and what we are doing, is that we are listening for keyboard events (ESC and F2 keys)
[08:34] <ogra> omeg, around ? 
[08:34] <lemsx1> Kamion: turning off the code for the key event loop doesn't fix the issue though
[08:36] <Kamion> lemsx1: ah, you probably will need infinity then, sorry
[08:36] <Kamion> or at least somebody with a clearer head than I have right now
[08:37] <lemsx1> Kamion: yep. infinity promised me some time to deal with that issue...
[08:38] <lemsx1> Kamion: no problem. i'm not hoping to get this problem fixed today. today's Thursday after all ;-)
[09:01] <ogra> desrt, uploaded, in case you missed it ;)
[09:01] <desrt> ogra; awesome.  thx :)
[09:02] <ogra> do you want to close the bug ? 
[09:02] <desrt> sure.
[09:02] <ogra> great, thanks :)
[09:03] <janimo> dholbach: hi, you seem not to be able to reproduce the gnumeirc bugs?
[09:04] <dholbach> janimo: no
[09:04] <dholbach> janimo: you are?
[09:04] <janimo> so it may be somehting borked at the reported
[09:04] <janimo> reporter
[09:04] <janimo> I did not try, just wanted to make sure before investigating that it's not somthing invalid
[09:05] <janimo> it would be another issue if it was clearly gnumeric vs gnumeirc-gtk instead of some misconfiguration
[09:05] <Gloubiboulga> I try to read the file with gnumeric, but with the 2 libgoffice variants
[09:05] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: good thinking.
[09:07] <desrt> dholbach; save my icons!

[09:08] <desrt> dholbach; i seriously have two shutdown icons on my System menu
[09:08] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, dholbach, I can't reproduce the bug using gnumeric/goffice or gnumeric/goffice-gtk
[09:09] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: me neither
[09:09] <dholbach> desrt: ?
[09:09] <desrt> dholbach; the bug i asked you to look at
[09:10] <desrt> dholbach; the problem is taht there are now two pictures of a power switch in the icon theme
[09:10] <desrt> dholbach; one is called "gnome-shutdown" and the other called "gnome-logout"
[09:10] <desrt> the "gnome-shutdown" one is a bit ugly and ought to be replaced with the nice-looking new power switch (which unfortunately got called "logout")
[09:10] <dholbach> desrt: I know - I get mail for bugs sent by launchpad already
[09:11] <dholbach> let's do the discussion at the bug report
[09:11] <desrt> dholbach; i just don't understand how this isn't seen as a bug
[09:11] <dholbach> I didn't reject it and there are more important bugs flying around - sorry if this is annoying for you.
[09:11] <desrt> true.  mark rejected it.
[09:17] <Spec> heya, anyone wanna help with the discussion on how one(I?) would go about implementing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutoUnmountNotifications
[09:19] <neutrinomass> Spec: As you already know, I agree with this spec. Probably the way to implement it would be through g-v-m which AFAIK is responsible for mounting stuff. You will want to distinguish between various device types because it is OK to remove usb audio devices while they are working .
[09:20] <mdke> Spec: it's something to discuss when the developers have finished with dapper
[09:21] <neutrinomass> mdke: Are suggestions for new specs postponed until after dapper ?
[09:21] <mdke> neutrinomass: no, but it's best to discuss elsewhere until then
[09:22] <Spec> true, it's most certaintly not going to be included in dapper :p
[09:31] <wasabi> I'd very much like to see g-v-m go away, and the mounting job be taken up by another type of service.
[09:31] <wasabi> Perhaps g-v-m stay on as a per-user policy engine. But I want to be able to auto mount things without a desktop present.
[09:35] <wasabi> Makes sense to me that you should always be able to plug in a removable device, and have it appear in /media, regardless whether you're at a console or what.
[09:35] <Burgwork> wasabi, isn't that what fuse is supposed to solve?
[09:36] <wasabi> Not really.
[09:36] <wasabi> Fuse is pretty much totally unrelated.
[09:37] <Spec> wasabi: I agree with you. Automagic mounting should be a service not dependent on gnome
[09:37] <_ion> ivman - daemon to auto-mount and manage media devices
[09:37] <wasabi> I don't think there is really a need for a daemon for that either. Probably just some hot plug invoked action.
[09:40] <Kamion> fuse solves the problem of "I want to mount this thing as a filesystem but it's not in the kernel yet / is too complicated to ever go in the kernel"
[09:40] <wasabi> I'd like to see Fuse used for smbfs and friends.
[09:41] <wasabi> Or maybe just smbfs get better. Either one. :0
[09:42] <wasabi> I'd really like it to work as smoothly/integrated as windows. You just have a path, and you use it... and it works in all apps.
[09:42] <wasabi> Because it's implemented in the kernel VFS.
[09:42] <wasabi> I sort of visualize a namespace for smbfs/other network/temp mounts, /media/smbfs/$ip/share.  Mounted only once, on demand, and umounted on idle.
[09:43] <wasabi> gnomevfs smbfs just being a wrapper that initializes the maps that path.
[09:44] <wasabi> Some sort of per-FS type policy engine that handles that, including knowing whether it is Fuse, or kernel based, and if so, whether it needs to mount once-per-user or once-per-system.
[09:45] <ogra> wasabi, have a look at ltspfs and ltspfsd :)
[09:45] <wasabi> Would very much like to use that for NFS as well.
[09:45] <wasabi> I do not like having to set up static mappings on all of my boxes in fstab... or use the hack that is autofs
[09:46] <wasabi> Would prefer to be able to browse to nfs://systemname/export  and have it Just Work.
[09:46] <ogra> thats the aim of ltspfs 
[09:47] <wasabi> Or maybe I wouldn't have a problem with autofs if it didn't suck so bad. ;0
[09:47] <wasabi>  /media/auto/nfs/server/share, and it auto maps that on demand.
[09:48] <wasabi> I like autofs.. just don't like it's configuration and staticness. You need to be able to make up paths.
[09:48] <wasabi> Sounds like a fun fuse project actually.
[09:50] <omeg> Does anybody have the Xubuntu logo for me in SVG (or high quality 32-bit PNG)? There's a link to it on the Wiki somewhere, but when I try to save it, it tries to save the HTML page instead.
[09:50] <ogra> oh, omeg !
[09:50] <ogra> omeg, the edubuntu plash will need some love for the fonts
[09:50] <ogra> *splash
[09:51] <ogra> the "ok" and progressbar are way to dark
[09:51] <crimsun> omeg: nice work on the splashes, btw. :-)
[09:52] <ogra> absolutely !
[09:52] <omeg> ogra: you mean the one I just added to the wiki? You guys sure are on top of the current events... :)
[09:52] <ogra> i'd still have preferred the "logo only" varinat though
[09:52] <omeg> Thanks, crimsun.
[09:52] <ogra> omeg, the one you added this morning
[09:53] <omeg> I added an edubuntu logo this morning? Depends on which morning you mean. It's evening here. This is the image I just put up on the wiki: http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/edu_newsuggestion_0_8_SCALED_BAR.png
[09:53] <ogra> omeg, i sit in germany :)
[09:53] <ogra> perfect !
[09:54] <bddebian> Bah, where's pitti :-(
[09:55] <omeg> Do you think it's okay? I think the "OK" text needs to be a little brighter.
[09:55] <ogra> bddebian, we're all expected not to work tomorrow :)
[09:55] <bddebian> pfft :-)
[09:55] <omeg> For some strange reason, it actually ended up being 15 colors instead of 16. I have no idea where that extra color went. I thought I forced a hand-picked palette of 16.
[09:56] <ogra> omeg, i dont mind its already more readable than the breezy one ;) 
[09:56] <ogra> i'm fully in your hands here :) 
[09:58] <omeg> I wonder if 15 colors would be a problem. I'll just add an arbitrary color to the palette.
[09:58] <ogra> yep
[10:01] <janimo> omeg, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuLogo is this good?
[10:08] <Kamion> BenC: amd64, powerpc, sparc all through; I'm off for dinner now, so if somebody else is around to shepherd the rest, that'd be ideal, if not I'll do it and upload my pending d-i source when I get back
[10:12] <omeg> janimo: yeah, thanks, but when I try to save the image, it just tries to save the HTM file.
[10:12] <omeg> Hmm
[10:13] <AlinuxOS> hile, Im searching for cjwatson :) Is he sometimes present here?
[10:14] <Burgwork> AlinuxOS, cjwatson is Kamion 
[10:14] <ogra> AlinuxOS, yes, he's at dinner now
[10:14] <AlinuxOS> :)
[10:14] <AlinuxOS> ogra, thank you
[10:14] <AlinuxOS> are you together somewhere  ? :)
[10:14] <AlinuxOS> I mean Ubuntu team ?:)
[10:14] <AlinuxOS> devel-team :)
[10:15] <ogra> yes, here in that channel :)
[10:15] <ogra> and in paris in 4 weeks
[10:15] <AlinuxOS> :) hehe
[10:15] <AlinuxOS> Paris why ?
[10:16] <AlinuxOS> some meeting ?
[10:16] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis
[10:17] <AlinuxOS> hehe great
[10:17] <AlinuxOS> ogra, ;)
[10:19] <omeg> Hmm
[10:20] <dholbach> mdke: heya! are you aware of scrollkeeper saying: I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/usr/share/ubuntu-docs/zh_TW/preface.xml"?
[10:20] <omeg> I just can't seem to grab that transparent PNG nor the SVG due to the way it's attached to the wikipage.
[10:20] <ogra> dholbach, heh, i just wanted to ask you about it 
[10:22] <AlinuxOS> All notifications should be sent by May 15th. No more sponsorship requests are being considered.
[10:22] <AlinuxOS> eh, too late for me :(
[10:28] <omeg> Anybody want to help me grab that Xubuntu logo so I can make a splash screen for it?
[10:28] <omeg> I feel really dumb for not being able to!
[10:33] <mvo_> Kamion: still up? are you interessted in dvd test results?
[10:33] <dholbach> mvo_: he's off for dinner
[10:33] <bddebian> omeg: What site are you trying to pull from?
[10:35] <mdke> dholbach: yeah, i fixed it in the repo
[10:35] <dholbach> ok cool
[10:35] <mdke> dholbach: you can upload if it's causing bug reports, but otherwise we can wait until next week
[10:36] <dholbach> waiting till next week is fine
[10:36] <mdke> cool, I should have our last batch of translations in the repo by the end of sunday
[10:37] <dholbach> can anybody help me with finding out while powerpc is giving scrollkeeper a bad time:  https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/195893 ?
[10:37] <dholbach> it fails for me too, but I don't exactly know why
[10:38] <mvo_> dholbach: ah, thanks
[10:38] <omeg> mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuLogo
[10:38] <mdke> thanks but no thanks
[10:38] <mdke> omeg: got the wrong guy
[10:39] <dholbach> urg, ok - can somebody tell me, why the build on powerpc prefers to have a /usr/lib/libscrollkeeper instead of /usr/lib/libscrollkeeper.so ?
[10:39] <bddebian> wtf?
[10:41] <omeg> Er
[10:41] <omeg> Yeah
[10:41] <omeg> bddebian: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuLogo
[10:42] <mdke> omeg: what's the problem?
[10:42] <bddebian> omeg: You can't just click on the Inkscape source link?
[10:42] <dieman> Kamion: poke
[10:42] <dholbach> dieman: he's out for dinner
[10:42] <dieman> oh
[10:43] <dieman> he was saying an autorepsponder i was using wasn't detecting malone messages right and ignoring them
[10:43] <dieman> but i can't quite figure out where an autoresponder is sposta figure out what the heck to do with malone mail
[10:43] <omeg> bddebian: it tries to save a HTM page when I do that.
[10:44] <mdke> omeg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuLogo?action=AttachFile
[10:44] <mdke> click on "get"
[10:44] <omeg> Thanks.
[10:44] <omeg> Well, that sure was simple.
[10:44] <omeg> :P
[10:44] <bddebian> Hey, steal my thunder.. :-)
[10:45] <reconcilliation> The Update manager is cool but when it opens initially the whole interface opens. This is not needed because sometimes there is no updated available. What would be better is if  the whole interface opened after the dialog box with a progress bar checks to see if there are updates and not at the same time.
[10:46] <dholbach> reconcilliation: Hello
[10:46] <reconcilliation> hello there
[10:46] <dholbach> reconcilliation: It might make more sense to look if there is already a bug filed and if not to file a bug with your suggestion
[10:46] <dholbach> http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/update-manager
[10:46] <dholbach> things tend to get lost on IRC
[10:47] <ogra> bddebian !!
[10:47] <ogra> root <root@archive.bddebian.com.bddebian.com>
[10:47] <dholbach> rock on
[10:47] <reconcilliation> Ok, cool. 
[10:48] <dholbach> ogra: nevermind - Matt did that too, once :)
[10:48] <ogra> wow, the changelog is even better *g*
@localhost
[10:48] <mvo_> reconcilliation: thanks for your suggestion, please file a wishlist bug, but patches are very welcome too :-D we will not be able to do this for dapper I'm afraid
[10:48] <ogra> .
[10:48] <ogra>    [ root ] 
[10:48] <ogra>    * GNU config automated update: config.sub     (20050422 to 20050708),
[10:48] <ogra>      config.guess     (20050422 to 20050803)
[10:48] <ogra> :)
[10:48] <dholbach> bddebian: ogra is sooo picky :-p
[10:49] <ogra> nope, i just didnt sleep since 40 or more hours
[10:49] <mdke> hard ass
[10:49] <mvo_> ogra: that is a bit verbose, no ;)
[10:49] <ogra> and am just hanging around before falling in my bed :)
[10:50] <dieman> aha
[10:50] <mvo_> what is todays deadline? 12utc?
[10:50] <dieman> Kamion: n/m
[10:50] <bddebian> ogra: What was that for?
[10:50] <ogra> mvo_, yep, then we'll get auto-logged-out
[10:50] <mvo_> ogra: woah!
[10:50] <ogra> ALL OF US !
[10:51] <bddebian> ogra: No, I meah which package?
[10:51] <dholbach> bddebian: httrack
[10:51] <dholbach> or htcheck, whatever :)
[10:51] <bddebian> htcheck?
[10:52] <bddebian> Why did it use that?  That was Hobsee's patch?  WTF?
[10:52] <ogra> bddebian, dont worry
[10:52] <bddebian> No, I'm trying to understand?  It was Hobbsee's changelog entry and I used -kbddebian@comcast.net??
[10:52] <dholbach> bddebian: i swear: if we find that guy who hacked your machine, we'll make him pay :-p
[10:53] <ogra> thats only the signing key
[10:53] <ogra> haha
[10:53] <dholbach> bddebian: what did you type?
[10:53] <ogra> bddebian, 	Accepted gnome-screensaver 2.14.1-0ubuntu5 (source) ... Changed-By: Ryan Lortie <desrt@ubuntu.com>
[10:54] <ogra> bddebian, i did upload that one  ...
[10:54] <ogra> -k only uses your key but doesnt touch the maintainer and changed by fields
[10:54] <mdke> Kamion: having some issues with sending this email: evo isn't handling a 4500 strong addressbook very well. I will try cutting it down into chunks. Do you think it is sensible to do a To: community-council, and Bcc: the rest?
[10:55] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: hello?
[10:55] <Kamion> mvo_: definitely interested
[10:55] <dholbach> bddebian: look at sistpoty's newest changelog entry on dapper-changes
[10:55] <dholbach> hey thom
[10:55] <thom> hey
[10:56] <Kamion> dieman: pong, I don't remember saying that though
[10:56] <mvo_> Kamion: I had no luck with the i386-dvd unfortunately
[10:56] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, buon appetito :)
[10:56] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, done ? :)
[10:56] <mvo_> Kamion: the live-system does not boot, it complains that it can't find a casper kenrel (I can recreate the exact error, need to reboot for this)
[10:56] <dholbach> thom: that music site you suggested is shipping to germany too expansive - I should make sure to visit you every once in a while :-p
[10:57] <Kamion> mvo_: meh - am interested in what the exact error is though, and what the screen looks like when it appears
[10:57] <thom> heh, seems like a good plan
[10:57] <dholbach> thom: although their amount of good music is simply amazing
[10:57] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: yes, although hopefully not hanging around for too much longer
[10:57] <thom> or just bribe keybuk or kamion to bring you stuff to paris :-)
[10:57] <Kamion> mdke: sounds sensible
[10:57] <mdke> Kamion: thanks.
[10:57] <AlinuxOS> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/language-support-ka/+bug/30671
[10:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30671 in language-support-ka "ttf-bpg-georgian are GPL ttf fonts for language-pack-ka and GNOME interface." [Wishlist,Fix released]  
[10:57] <thom> dholbach: yeah, it's a great site
[10:57] <dholbach> thom: they'll be asked if "what? that big record case is all your luggage?"
[10:58] <mvo_> Kamion: ok, give me some seconds
[10:58] <AlinuxOS> thank you for your reply
[10:58] <AlinuxOS> so can you explain me better what means "getting glyphs into unifont"?
[10:58] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: I'm not getting involved with the bug in general - just thought that comment was worth making before somebody got sidetracked
[10:58] <AlinuxOS> I'll refer it to our font maestro.
[10:58] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: we use the font in the 'unifont' package for d-i
[10:59] <bddebian> dholbach: I did dpkg-buildpackage -S -kbddebain@comcast.net.. ?
[10:59] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: I don't know how it's maintained - I believe it's a GNU package
[10:59] <HiddenWolf> mvo_: since the updates today update-notifier-popups started being misalligned again.
[10:59] <mvo_> HiddenWolf: garr, do you have a screenshot or something?
[10:59] <dholbach> bddebian: hum... well anyway - look at sistpoty's recent upload
[10:59] <AlinuxOS> unifont - X11 dual-width GNU unicode font.   this one right?
[10:59] <HiddenWolf> mvo_: send me a message in 10s and I will. :)
[10:59] <bddebian> dholbach: Yeah, he just told me :-)
[11:00] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: erm, sorry, wrong one, I meant bterm-unifont
[11:00] <dholbach> ah right :)
[11:00] <Kamion> which is built from bf-utf-source
[11:00] <mvo_> HiddenWolf: please just email it to me, otherwise it will probably get los anyway :/
[11:00] <Kamion> Description: Source for fonts needed to build Debian installers
[11:00] <AlinuxOS> so what should we do to have georgian font support ?
[11:00] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/xu_newsuggestion_0_32.png <-- do you think that this would adhere well enough to the Xubuntu colors in the logo?
[11:00] <HiddenWolf> I will, but I need to trigger that popup. :)
[11:00] <AlinuxOS> modify this source?
[11:00] <AlinuxOS> adding our characchters?
[11:01] <omeg> Hmm, might want to give maybe a little blob gradient to that mouse to make it stand out better.
[11:01] <mvo_> Kamion: exact error is a error box with blue heading (looks a bit like win95) and: "Could not find kernel image /Casper/filesystem.kernel-386" (image is latest available via rsync)
[11:01] <Kamion> mvo_: oh, ok, that one's fixed but the DVD hasn't been regenerated
[11:02] <dholbach> heya seb128
[11:02] <seb128> hi dholbach ;)
[11:02] <Kamion> mvo_: I've started a DVD build now - shouldn't take too long to rsync once it's done
[11:02] <mvo_> Kamion: ah, cool. let me know when I can rsync again
[11:02] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: I believe so, you'd have to grab the source and look into how it seems to work though
[11:03] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: I don't have any specific knowledge other than knowing where to point you
[11:03] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, ok.
[11:03] <ogra> seb128, its nearly friday, be careful or you have to pay drinks :)
[11:03] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, thank you.
[11:04] <seb128> ogra: that's friday to mdz's timezone, right? ;)
[11:04] <seb128> so we still have time :p
[11:04] <ogra> heh
[11:04] <dieman> Kamion: i thought it was you, but i figured it out anyhow
[11:04] <dieman> Kamion: gnarwl stupidly trys to work with reply-to
[11:04] <HiddenWolf> mvo_: which e-mail adress do you prefer?
[11:05] <mvo_> HiddenWolf: mvo (at) ubuntu.com should be fine
[11:06] <bddebian> Gnight ogra
[11:06] <omeg> There are bots that grab e-mail addresses from IRC chat?
[11:06] <pygi> night ogra
[11:06] <omeg> Night
[11:06] <ogra> omeg, these channels are publically logged :)
[11:06] <ogra> night all
[11:06] <HiddenWolf> omeg: most people here have their e-mail adressess in half a dozen mailing list archives in plaintext
[11:06] <seb128> mdz, Kamion: I would appreciate if one of you approved that intltool UVF exception request today so it can be upload before the some non-working days we have ;)
[11:07] <HiddenWolf> omeg: launchpad lists e-mails in plain text too.
[11:07] <Burgwork> omeg, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclog <-- these channels are all loggedhere
[11:08] <AlinuxOS> http://www.teutonici.com/Alinux/BGP_Rioni.jpg  Simply a Georgian Ubuntu :)
[11:08] <AlinuxOS> sorry for jpg extension.
[11:08] <AlinuxOS> :)
[11:09] <HiddenWolf> mvo_: sent. 
[11:09] <nickrud> I'm running into some really wierd behavior while trying to change the icon on a panel launcher; for example, if I add the calculator the the panel via the right click option and examine the launcher, it claims there's no icon. I click the change icon button, it reads /usr/share/pixmaps, and then immediately selects the mozilla-firefox icon. Clicking again, I can then change the icon.
[11:09] <mvo_> HiddenWolf: thanks
[11:09] <Kamion> seb128: I'll have to read the diff through
[11:10] <Kamion> seb128: you reckon it'll be required for dapper-updates anyway, though?
[11:10] <Kamion> or just for edgy?
[11:10] <seb128> Kamion: the situation is that no upstream GNOME tarball will build on dapper if we don't have it
[11:10] <seb128> Kamion: so yeah, having it for dapper or dapper-updates would be appreciate
[11:10] <Kamion> yeah, but are those tarballs ones we'll want to build on dapper?
[11:10] <seb128> or some GNOME people will hate us for it
[11:11] <seb128> many GNOME upstream guys use stable Ubuntu for some months and roll their tarballs on it
[11:11] <Kamion> I see
[11:11] <wasabi> Hey I like the logout dialog in xubuntu.
[11:11] <wasabi> Smaller, more compact.
[11:11] <seb128> wasabi: screenshot?
[11:11] <dholbach> if we're going to get the 2.14.x tarballs into dapper-updates (as I heard of), we'd need it as well
[11:12] <wasabi> one sec
[11:12] <nickrud> I also looked thru launchpad, but can't really tell if any of those apply (is there a text search?)
[11:12] <jdong> dholbach: ooh, gnome point-releases will be able to get into dapper-updates? :)
[11:12] <dholbach> jdong: that was discussed, but I'm not 100% sure
[11:12] <jdong> dholbach: cool. sound promising
[11:13] <jdong> dholbach: btw, thanks for the quick response on that gnome mixer bug I filed. You guys never rest :)
[11:13] <dholbach> jdong: seb128 never rests.
[11:13] <seb128> lol
[11:13] <jdong> lol
[11:14] <dholbach> jdong: we had to make him work on upstream bugs and debian packages too, so launchpad could cope with him
[11:14] <seb128> Kamion: if that's of any use for taking your decision they rolled most of GNOME 2.15.2 this week using the new intltool so they would likely have noticed a regression
[11:15] <seb128> hi pitti
[11:15] <wasabi> haha. man.
[11:15] <wasabi> that is freaking weird.
[11:15] <wasabi> this session stuff is making desktops not right.
[11:15] <wasabi> Started xfce in a vncserver.
[11:15] <wasabi> Different display. Launched it up. Tried to hit logout.
[11:15] <wasabi> And my main X faded out.
[11:16] <wasabi> And showed me my normal logout screen.
[11:16] <pitti> hi
[11:18] <Kamion> seb128: you have mail
[11:19] <omeg> Anybody here able to give some feedback on a possible Xubuntu usplash screen?
[11:20] <mdke> omeg: #xubuntu
[11:20] <mdke> ?
[11:20] <omeg> Well, most of the discussion regarding usplash screens has been going on in here, and I've gotten some helpful advice before, so I'll try my luck here first.
[11:20] <omeg> #xubuntu also sounds like a giant channel with hundreds of people that would have the most arbitrary opinions about it. I'd rather get advice from here.
[11:21] <seb128> Kamion: got it, thank you
[11:22] <BenC> Kamion: sweet, only ia64 remains
[11:23] <mdke> omeg: sounds like? try /who #xubuntu, or join it
[11:26] <wasabi> seb128: http://akita.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/xubuntu.png
[11:26] <wasabi> Looks cleaner.
[11:26] <wasabi> Yeah, I just noticed it's missing some buttons though
[11:27] <seb128> wasabi: right, sort of nice
[11:28] <wasabi> Also the fade to a lighter color is nice.
[11:28] <wasabi> Instead of fade to black.
[11:29] <mdke> that is nice
[11:32] <Burgwork> vuntz,  think upstream could agree on something like this for 2.16? --> http://akita.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/xubuntu.png
[11:33] <seb128> Burgwork: upstream will not move of the current design they have I think
[11:33] <seb128> they have no reason to do so
[11:33] <wasabi> Also Xubuntu calls their logout item "Quit"
[11:33] <wasabi> Heh.
[11:34] <wasabi> I wish ours was called "Exit"
[11:34] <seb128> it doesn't exit though
[11:34] <wasabi> Because that's what it does. It's just an Exit menu item, like any other, it's just session wide vs app wide.
[11:34] <seb128> it allow to lock screen, switch user, etc
[11:34] <wasabi> Sure it does. The user leaves the environment, regardless what happens.
[11:34] <mdke> seb128: that's a bug though *hides*
[11:35] <seb128> wasabi: you can call everything exit then :p
[11:35] <wasabi> Maybe even "Leave Desktop..."
[11:35] <wasabi> Something. Log Out is wrong too. :0
[11:35] <seb128> starting a new app change your environment too
[11:35] <seb128> right
[11:35] <seb128> but we didn't figure a nice word for it
[11:36] <wasabi> Well, whatever option is chosen, the currently focused desktop becomes unavailable.
[11:36] <wasabi> Has to be a nice simple understandable word for that. :0
[11:36] <mdke> stop working
[11:36] <wasabi> Go Away
[11:36] <mdke> heh
[11:37] <mvo_> pitti: any thoughts on #42002? should we just ask for the seed change?
[11:37] <mvo_> (or rather ask if we can do the change)
[11:37] <pitti> bug 42002
[11:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42002 in language-support-ko "Korean fonts are so ugly." [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42002
[11:37] <mvo_> oh, fixed already?
[11:37] <mvo_> cool :)
[11:38] <mvo_> sorry for bothering you
[11:38] <pitti> mvo_: I added them to l-support-ko
[11:38] <wasabi> Anyways I think the logout box is a monstrousity.
[11:38] <pitti> mvo_: since I didn't get a really satisfying answer, this seemed like the least intrusive approach
[11:38] <pitti> mvo_: yes, it was on my list of dapper milestone bugs, and I killed them all :)
[11:38] <dholbach> night fellas
[11:39] <bddebian> Gnight dholbach
[11:39] <Kamion> dholbach: before you go
[11:39] <dholbach> night bddebian
[11:39] <Kamion> dholbach: do you happen to know if tangerine/tango belong in edubuntu desktop?
[11:39] <Kamion> I'm doing a seed merge
[11:40] <dholbach> Kamion: i think not - I think ogra uses gartoon icon theme
[11:40] <dholbach> Kamion: but i'm not an expert at that
[11:40] <Kamion> seems plausible
[11:41] <Kamion> I've ignored the screensaver-default-images merge too, but ogra might want to overrule me later on that ...
[11:42] <Kamion> ogra: I'm just guessing, but I suspect you might want to drop some bits of ship-live on non-powerpc ;-)
[11:44] <Kamion> ogra: your merges from Ubuntu seeds look weird, btw - they never seem to actually show the merged revisions in 'bzr log', unlike merges done by other people
[11:45] <Kamion> ogra: anyway, I wouldn't have merged ship-live yet except that I needed to merge seeds for the kernel ABI change, so sorry if that overflows stuff for you
[11:56] <kbrooks> 19/05?
[11:56] <kbrooks> oh.
[11:56] <kbrooks> that's tomorrw (edt)
[12:01] <pygi> thats today kbrooks :)
[12:01] <kbrooks> pygi: i did say EDT
[12:02] <pygi> kbrooks, I know, that's why ":)" :)