[01:06] <ajmitch> morning
[01:07] <imbrandon> ;)
[01:07] <imbrandon> heya everyone *yawns*
[01:10] <crimsun> 'morning ajmitch, imbrandon
[01:12] <TheMuso> Is launchpad still down/in read-only?
[01:13] <crimsun> should be back up
[01:13] <TheMuso> Cheers.
[02:13] <mkrufky> we at linuxtv.org just released dvb-apps 1.1.1 -- it is exactly the same as 1.1.0, with added support for ATSC ... could this be added to ubuntu sooner than later?
[02:13] <mkrufky> http://linuxtv.org/download/linuxtv-dvb-apps-1.1.1.tar.bz2
[02:14] <crimsun> mkrufky: for Edgy, sure. For Dapper? No.
[02:14] <mkrufky> that is understandable
[02:14] <mkrufky> however........
[02:14] <crimsun> mkrufky: on the other hand, if the changes in 1.1.1 are unintrusive and consist mainly of #defines, then sure, you could backport them.
[02:14] <mkrufky> does dapper actually have a realistic release date now?
[02:15] <crimsun> yeah, 1 june.
[02:15] <crimsun> freeze is essentially this saturday.
[02:15] <mkrufky> we released 1.1.1 purely for the sake of letting americans and koreans use atsc
[02:15] <mkrufky> it is exactly 1.1.0 .... all of the new stuff was held back
[02:15] <crimsun> right, but realise we've been in upstream version freeze since /mid-February/
[02:16] <mkrufky> the atsc support has been sitting there for over a year -- i just finally convinced the dvb-apps maintainer to put out this release for us poor americans/ canadians / koreans
[02:16] <mkrufky> yes, i do realize that
[02:16] <crimsun> generate a debdiff against the current Dapper package, then, and file a bug attaching the debdiff
[02:17] <mkrufky> hmm... i never read up on the motu stuff
[02:17] <crimsun> if someone can't eyeball the patch and approve it in 10 seconds, it's not worth it.
[02:17] <mkrufky> is there a wiki anywhere that explains the debdiff stuff?  im sure its probably simple, i just dont know it
[02:17] <crimsun> meaning: if it adds swathes of code, don't bother until Edgy opens
[02:17] <mkrufky> it adds a bit... not very much
[02:18] <mkrufky> but i can understand if you'd want to wait
[02:18] <mkrufky> im really hoping to get the livecd distros to adopt it befor e the next releases
[02:18] <mkrufky> may you put it on the to-do list?  or do i have to file a bug or something?
[02:19] <crimsun> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ubuntu-sync.html
[02:19] <crimsun> read the debdiff section(s)
[02:19] <mkrufky> ok
[02:19] <crimsun> you should also read the Debian New Maintainer's and Developer's Guides
[02:19] <crimsun> we're /extremely/ short on resources, so there's no guarantee that any of us will actually look until Edgy
[02:20] <mkrufky> i understand
[02:20] <mkrufky> im a kernel maintainer... in the same boat
[02:20] <mkrufky> ;-)
[02:20] <crimsun> then I'm sure you know why we prefer to defer :-)
[02:20] <mkrufky> (note, im not THE maintainer.... just one of them) ... and yes, completely understandable why you'd want to wait
[02:21] <mkrufky> ok, thanks
[03:02] <crimsun> welp, I think that just about does it for sound/ for Dapper.
[03:06] <ajmitch> crimsun: at kernel freeze?
[03:10] <ajmitch> sorry I haven't had time to reproduce my doom3/quake4 sound problem
[03:21] <crimsun> ajmitch: nearly
[03:22] <crimsun> well, at least the critical issues are either user hardware-specific or in userspace, so I have a bit of breathing room
[04:24] <ajmitch> hi bddebian
[04:24] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[04:24] <bddebian> Hi gang
[04:24] <Kyral> Hello HurdFreak :P
[04:25] <bddebian> Heya Kyral
[04:45] <bddebian> ajmitch: Me too man
[05:28] <LaserJock> hi everybody!
[05:30] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:32] <LaserJock> bddebian: have you fixed/broken Universe yet? :-)
[05:32] <bddebian> Suuure :-)
[05:38] <LaserJock> so I talked to the department sys admin today
[05:38] <bddebian> Yeah and? :-)
[05:38] <LaserJock> he was thinking of trying to teach a scripting/scientific computing class
[05:39] <LaserJock> bash+python for scientists
[05:39] <bddebian> Cool
[05:39] <LaserJock> and so we were thinking that we could convert our present department computer lab into an Ubuntu LTSP setup
[05:40] <LaserJock> and team teach the class in there
[05:40] <crimsun> that's cool, but ... ouch? Surely there's an MPI/OpenMP class?
[05:40] <LaserJock> MPI/OpenMP?
[05:41] <crimsun> MPI and OpenMP are alternate and widely used paradigms in computational science
[05:41] <LaserJock> crimsun: no, I'm thinking of stuff like "what does the ls command do?" ;-)
[05:41] <LaserJock> we have linux computational clusters etc. but nobody knows linux
[05:42] <LaserJock> so we have people doing lots of repetative tasks by hand
[05:42] <crimsun> (you shouldn't have to know Linux anyhow)
[05:44] <crimsun> Ubuntu LTSP is a step in the right direction at least
[05:44] <LaserJock> right now we have a bunch of buggy XP machines that people don't really use for chemistry
[05:45] <LaserJock> the problem right now is that there is a distinct lack of linux knowledge
[05:45] <ajmitch> shouldn't take long to teach them the basics
[05:45] <LaserJock> or of scripting knowledge in general (even python on Windows_
[05:46] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:46] <LaserJock> but somebody needs to do it ;-)
[05:46] <ajmitch> it's fairly useful to know
[05:46] <ajmitch> a friend of mine doing his phd in microbiology does a lot of stuff with perl - scripting knowledge has helped him quite a bit
[05:47] <ajmitch> he also has enough linux knowledge to get by
[05:47] <LaserJock> some of our international grad students have know computer experience at all and they are dumped into computational chemistry
[05:48] <ajmitch> ubuntu does make it easy though
[05:49] <LaserJock> well, Ubuntu has a lot more chemistry software than what we presently have in the computer lab
[05:49] <ajmitch> and it has a lot of python stuff
[05:49] <ajmitch> it's not a particularly hard system to learn on
[05:51] <chillywilly> hi
[05:51] <ajmitch> hi chillywilly
[05:51] <bddebian> Heya chillywilly
[05:51] <ajmitch> sigh
[05:51] <ajmitch>  410G  375G   32G  93% /usr/local
[05:51] <LaserJock> wow
[05:52] <ajmitch> yeah
[05:52] <tritium> *sigh*  It's up to me to finish the bottle of wine we opened tonight...
[05:52] <ajmitch> most of that isn't actual used space
[05:52] <TheMuso> /usr/local? What have you got in there?
[05:52] <LaserJock> hi tritium
[05:52] <tritium> hi LaserJock
[05:52] <bddebian> tritium: Sounds rough :-)
[05:52] <tritium> bddebian: :)
[05:52] <ajmitch> since I have a 165GB loopback file which I'll use as a LVM physical volume to backup stuff :)
[05:52] <tritium> Well, I might have a headache in the morning
[05:53] <LaserJock> tritium: I left 14 bottles of beer in the department office this evening after our department party
[05:53] <LaserJock> I wonder if it will be there in the morning
[05:53] <ajmitch> heh
[05:53] <tritium> LaserJock: wow.  Graduation party?
[05:54] <ajmitch> someone ship me a daily amd64 image please
[05:54] <LaserJock> tritium: no, the Chemistry Grad Student Association I (and a few others) started put on an end-of-semester party
[05:54] <ajmitch> it's only downloading at 15K/sec here
[05:54] <tritium> Oh, okay
[05:54] <LaserJock> ajmitch: ouch
[05:54] <ajmitch> LaserJock: tell me about it - I want to install on a server tomorrow
[05:55] <LaserJock> ajmitch: can you rsync it?
[05:55] <ajmitch> nothing to rsync from
[05:55] <ajmitch> unless I go from a recent server install image
[05:55] <LaserJock> :(
[05:55] <ajmitch> which I might do
[05:55] <ajmitch> that one is only a week old
[05:55] <TheMuso> auc is alwaysy very busy hese days.
[05:55] <TheMuso> and cdimage
[05:56] <ajmitch> yeah
[05:56] <ajmitch> flight 8 should be out soon
[05:56] <ajmitch> then RC
[05:56] <LaserJock> I wonder what June 1 will be like?
[05:56] <ajmitch> we're approaching final freezes
[05:56] <LaserJock> I though Flight 8 was canceled
[05:56] <LaserJock> *thought
[05:56] <ajmitch> LaserJock: well the .se mirror saturated its 2.5Gbps link on breezy release for several hours
[05:56] <TheMuso> I think if one wants to get the release early, to rsync from the most recent daily they have.
[05:56] <ajmitch> cancelled?
[05:57] <LaserJock> maybe it is just for one of the *other* Ubuntus ;-)
[05:58] <ajmitch> hehe
[05:58] <LaserJock> I can't keep them straight anymore
[05:59] <ajmitch> the sizes seem quite different
[05:59] <ajmitch> ah well
[06:00] <ajmitch> chillywilly: release is SOOOOON
[06:00] <crimsun> (Friday's a mandatory holiday for the distro team, so F8 is cancelled)
[06:00] <ajmitch> crimsun: interesting
[06:00] <LaserJock> hmm, are there any cdimage.  mirrors?
[06:00] <crimsun> sure, try se.archive ;-)
[06:00] <ajmitch> why is it a mandatory holiday? to ensure that they don't collapse in the last days before release?
[06:00] <crimsun> ajmitch: from what I understand, yep
[06:01] <ajmitch> makes sense :)
[06:01] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:01] <chillywilly> wimps ;)
[06:01] <ajmitch> chillywilly: you try working for them & see if you last even 2 weeks :)
[06:02] <jaldhar> talking about Friday 27th?
[06:02] <crimsun> jaldhar: tomorrow the 19th
[06:02] <chillywilly> ajmitch: piece of cake ;)
[06:03] <chillywilly> I bet this slacker guy names ajmitch that I know wouldn't make it ;)
[06:03] <chillywilly> named*
[06:03] <chillywilly> *quack*
[06:04] <chillywilly> 0
[06:04] <jaldhar> oops its thursday already.
[06:06] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
[06:07] <jsgotangco> good afternoon
[06:07] <jsgotangco> lunch brb
[06:07] <ajmitch> some people
[06:07] <ajmitch> they come to work & start lunch straight away
[06:07] <crimsun> ;-)
[06:08] <TheMuso> heh
[06:08] <chillywilly> I wub you ajmitch
[06:09] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I do that but I eat while I'm working
[06:10] <ajmitch> that's not quite as bad :)
[06:13] <LaserJock> hmm, I wish I could get our sys admin to ditch SuSe 9 for Ubuntu, but the last time we had a reinstall lots of bad things happened
[07:06] <AnAnt> I have 2 questions on REVU :
[07:06] <AnAnt> 1. how can I search the REVU site to see if a package is there ?
[07:06] <AnAnt> 2. I uploaded 2 packages yesterday, yet I didn't get any login yet
[07:10] <crimsun> AnAnt: [1]  Use your Web browser's in-place Find function
[07:11] <crimsun> AnAnt: [2]  Have you recovered your password yet?
[07:12] <AnAnt> crimsun: I tried, and it gave me an encrypted password
[07:12] <AnAnt> I decrypted it, and it was "None", so I tried to login with it
[07:12] <AnAnt> but it failed
[07:12] <crimsun> AnAnt: you'll need to have a REVU admin look at it, then.
[07:13] <AnAnt> k
[07:13] <AnAnt> crimsun: can I download a package from REVU ?
[07:14] <crimsun> AnAnt: most links are public
[07:14] <AnAnt> links ?
[07:15] <AnAnt> I don't see any links !
[07:15] <crimsun> AnAnt: when you click on a package, there are a set of links
[07:15] <crimsun> some you won't be able to download, some you will
[07:17] <AnAnt> crimsun: can u see if there are elinks-0.11.1 & kchmviewer-2.5 packages there ?
[07:19] <crimsun> not that I see
[07:20] <TheMuso> I don't see elinks.
[07:20] <TheMuso> Nor the other package you mentioned.
[07:20] <AnAnt> wierd
[07:21] <AnAnt> I uploaded them yesterday
[07:25] <ajmitch> because you uploaded binary packages, not source-only
[07:26] <AnAnt> both !
[07:26] <AnAnt> I did -S -sa
[07:26] <ajmitch> binary packages were uploaded
[07:26] <ajmitch> you must upload the package_source.changes file, not the i386.changes
[07:29] <AnAnt> oh
[07:29] <AnAnt> btw, there isn't any source_changes
[07:29] <ajmitch> there will be if you build with -S -sa
[07:29] <AnAnt> doesn't dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa create that ?
[07:30] <AnAnt> you mean, also pbuild should be run with it ?
[07:30] <ajmitch> no
[07:30] <ajmitch> pbuilder doesn't need to be run like that
[07:31] <AnAnt> well, I don't get it
[07:31] <ajmitch> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa creates the source.changes file which you need to upload with dput
[07:31] <AnAnt> oic
[07:31] <AnAnt> k
[07:34] <AnAnt> btw, I should upload sources-only or sources & binary ?
[07:41] <AnAnt> cool !
[07:41] <AnAnt> but I still can't search packages ?
[07:42] <AnAnt> are the packages on that page the only packages uploaded to REVU or just the most recent packages uploaded ?
[07:53] <ajmitch> AnAnt: all packages
[07:53] <AnAnt> ic
[08:18] <AnAnt> I try to run dpkg-buildpackage on some package, I got this error: /usr/bin/fakeroot: line 150: debian/rules: Permission denied
[08:18] <AnAnt> what's that ?
[08:20] <crimsun> well, is debian/rules actually executable?
[08:22] <AnAnt> oh
[08:22] <AnAnt> nope
[08:22] <AnAnt> cool, I changed that, thanks
[09:32] <AnAnt> I get this warning: Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be rejected by the upload queue management software.
[09:32] <AnAnt> that was for a package that I uploaded a previous version of it before
[09:33] <AnAnt> previous revision to be accurate
[09:33] <AnAnt> so, what should I do ? is there a way to create an upload file that doesn't upload .orig. tarball again ?
[09:34] <Mithrandir> don't build with -sa?
[09:35] <AnAnt> ic
[09:35] <AnAnt> thx
[09:35] <AnAnt> thanks
[09:35] <AnAnt> ok, does that warning mean that my whole upload is rejected or only the .orig. tarball ?
[09:36] <Mithrandir> it'll all be rejected
[09:39] <crimsun> AnAnt: REVU always requires full source upload including the orig.tar.gz if non-native
[09:40] <AnAnt> crimsun: what is non-native means ?
[09:40] <crimsun> AnAnt: non-native means the package was not created specifically for Debian or its derivatives
[09:40] <crimsun> AnAnt: i.e., there's no orig.tar.gz
[09:40] <AnAnt> crimsun: so I upload the orig.tar.gz, even if I am uploading a new revision of a package that I uploaded yesterday ?
[09:40] <crimsun> AnAnt: yes, but /only/ for REVU
[09:40] <AnAnt> i see
[09:42] <crimsun> sorry, what I said may read unclearly. A non-native source /will/ have an orig.tar.gz
[09:43] <crimsun> for instance, the following is native: wxwidgets2.6_2.6.1.2ubuntu2.tar.gz
[09:43] <crimsun> and the following is non-native: vlc_0.8.4.debian.orig.tar.gz
[09:44] <crimsun> non-natives have diff.gzs
[09:48] <dholbach> good morning motu world
[09:48] <AnAnt> oic
[09:48] <AnAnt> crimsun: so if I am uploading a package that is not in the distro I got , the most probably it is non-native
[09:49] <crimsun> 'morning daniel
[09:49] <dholbach> crimsun: hey daniel
[09:49] <AnAnt> crimsun: let's say, wxwidgets2.8 is out for example
[09:50] <crimsun> AnAnt: if it doesn't already exist in Debian or Ubuntu but does exist "upstream", then it will be non-native /unless/ you are the upstream author and are packaging it specifically for Debian or its derivatives
[09:50] <AnAnt> crimsun: and I don't see wxwidgets2.8 on the REVU, in that case it is non-native, and I should put the orig tarball, right ?
[09:50] <crimsun> AnAnt: in general, yes, but wxwidgets is a pathological case.
[09:50] <AnAnt> ok
[09:50] <AnAnt> thanks
[09:51] <TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
[09:51] <crimsun> AnAnt: we never use actual upstream wxwidgets tarballs because they're far too buggy. The Debian maintainer, Ron Lee, generates native Debian source for them.
[09:52] <dholbach> heya TheMuso
[09:52] <Hobbsee> bug 34992
[09:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34992 in kdenetwork "Name with ampersand appears with underscore in menus" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34992
[09:54] <AnAnt> btw, when I make a package for elinks, I got this from linda: Package contains autoconf-generated files.
[09:54] <AnAnt> what's that ?
[09:56] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: elinks is already in dapper - or there's some reason it cant be packaged...
[09:56] <TheMuso> You have files that are used for autoconf in your .diff.gz, which is generally not desired.
[09:56] <Hobbsee> no, wait...maybe that's links2
[09:56] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: It is in universe,but my guess is that  it is an older version.
[09:57] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: that's version 0.11.1 of elinks
[09:57] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: that's version 0.11.1 of elinks that I am packaging
[09:57] <Hobbsee> there's something weird about those packages though - check the README
[09:57] <Hobbsee> er...you're packaging the same one as is in the repos?
[09:57] <Hobbsee> or am i missing something here?
[09:57] <AnAnt> TheMuso: what are those autoconf files ? how can I know them ?
[09:57] <Hobbsee> oh, yes, i see...dont mind me...
[09:58] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: ok
[09:58] <Hobbsee> this is post dapper, presumably...
[09:58] <dholbach> AnAnt: lintian -i *.deb    or    lintian -i *.changes    should tell
[09:58] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: also in the changelog you'll find that I compiled elinks with many features, ECMAScript other stuff
[09:58] <TheMuso> AnAnt: What I do is unpack the .orig.tar.gz by hand, and manually patch in the .diff.gz file and look at the filenames mentioned in the output.
[09:58] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: fair enough
[09:58] <TheMuso> Anything with a .m4 extension, Makefile or config* is considered autoconf related.
[09:59] <TheMuso> dholbach: Never knew that one. You learn something new every day.
[09:59] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: and it's version 0.11.1 , it has a feature that I missed in 0.10.6
[09:59] <Hobbsee> so i see :)
[10:00] <TheMuso> AnAnt: BTW are you building elinks with libsmjs1 as a dependancy?
[10:00] <Hobbsee> i thought that you were saying that 0.11.1 was already there, so you were packaging it...
[10:00] <AnAnt> TheMuso: yes
[10:00] <Hobbsee> and thought that was a little odd :P
[10:00] <TheMuso> Good.
[10:00] <AnAnt> TheMuso: for the ECMAScript
[10:00] <AnAnt> but I failed to enable perl , dunno why
[10:00] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[10:03] <AnAnt> TheMuso: I looked at the diff, it only added debian scripts !
[10:03] <AnAnt> TheMuso: or to be accurate , it modified the debian scripts
[10:03] <TheMuso> AnAnt: Try what dholbach suggested.
[10:04] <AnAnt> k
[10:05] <AnAnt> lintian only printed a W: line, not E: line
[10:05] <AnAnt> oh hang on
[10:06] <AnAnt> the only E: lines I get from lintian *changes is about: elinks source: invalid-arch-string-in-source-relation
[10:07] <AnAnt> I don't see that this has to do with  linda report about autoconf files
[10:11] <AnAnt> well, I don't think I can fix it
[10:14] <dholbach> yo torkel :-)
[10:14] <torkel> hi dholbach :-)
[10:17] <AnAnt> btw,  I got a question,
[10:17] <AnAnt> I got the deb files of VIM7 from debian experimental repos
[10:17] <AnAnt> tried to install it, but it turned not to work because it required some libc6 package that is in debian
[10:18] <AnAnt> so I got the source package, and made a ubuntu1 package from it
[10:18] <AnAnt> is that ok, or wrong ? unethical I mean
[10:18] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: no, that's allowed :)
[10:19] <Hobbsee> all of this is for edgy, though...unfortunately...
[10:19] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: ?
[10:19] <AnAnt> after dapper is released, aren't there something called updates ?
[10:20] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: you cant get new features into dapper by now...
[10:20] <Hobbsee> yes, to the development version...
[10:20] <AnAnt> you mean updates are not for stable version ?
[10:20] <Hobbsee> june 1, dapper gets released as stable, and the only things it gets are security updates...
[10:20] <AnAnt> oh
[10:20] <AnAnt> ok
[10:21] <AnAnt> so I guess when edgy becomes beta, I will go for it too
[10:21] <crimsun> AnAnt: 1) security fixes go into dapper-security; 2) critical "ohshi should've been fixed and prevents $app from starting" bugfixes go into dapper-updates; 3) newer versions are backported from edgy to dapper-backports
[10:21] <AnAnt> dapper beta is pretty stable (I started from beta2)
[10:21] <ajmitch> when edgy is opened, we'll be syncing from debian
[10:21] <ajmitch> so anything newer in debian will be imported
[10:21] <AnAnt> ok, so if I allow the backports repo, I will get them, that's cool
[10:22] <ajmitch> well
[10:22] <ajmitch> not everything gets backported
[10:22] <ajmitch> it's always done on a case-by-case basis
[10:23] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: and that's where a double boot comes in - dapper and edgy...so then you can use one, and develop on the other... or just use the development version
[10:24] <Hobbsee> and fall back on dapper, if you need it...
[10:24] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, btw
[10:26] <`6og> hm. anyone here know about suns new java packages? they went into Debian a few days ago. i'm wondering if they are the ones that got pushed into ubuntu recently?
[10:27] <kelmo> afaik, debian and ubuntu developers were working together with sun engineers, so i guess ubuntu will also get the rewards of that too
[10:31] <`6og> kelmo: i ask because debian-devel and -legal lists have gone crazy about the licence. i was wondering if we(ubuntu) had looked at it
[10:32] <`6og> i thinkm the package is sun-java5 *checks*
[10:33] <AnAnt> what is changelog-should-mention-nmu
[10:34] <AnAnt> it is the jdk
[10:34] <AnAnt> cool
[10:35] <kelmo> AnAnt: when your name is not in Maintainer: or Uploaders: field of control file, and you have changed the package, it is a "NMU"
[10:36] <AnAnt> kelmo: oh, so I should add my name to Uploaders ?
[10:36] <kelmo> usually when a NMU is done, the first changelog entry is s.th like "Non Maintainer Upload"
[10:37] <crimsun> AnAnt: generally you can ignore that warning in Ubuntu universe/multiverse.
[10:37] <kelmo> and the revision gets a dot point increment
[10:38] <AnAnt> k
[10:39] <kelmo> ( i say usually, and speak without experience of ubuntu motu maintainership)
[10:39] <ajmitch> (hi Hobbsee)
[10:43] <herzi> can someone please take care of https://launchpad.net/bugs/35825
[10:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35825 in gq "Does not appear in the menu" [Normal,Confirmed] 
[10:45] <sivang> herzi: can this be solved with a sync from debian?
[10:47] <TheMuso> According to the bug, an update has been requested.
[10:47] <AnAnt> crimsun: how do I know wether my package is going into universe or multiverse ?
[10:48] <crimsun> AnAnt: license, and it's set on the server.
[10:49] <crimsun> AnAnt: you really should be aiming for universe unless you have a compelling non-DFSG-free reason for multiverse
[10:49] <AnAnt> crimsun: what server ?
[10:49] <crimsun> AnAnt: properly "the archive"
[10:49] <crimsun> (contains the overrides)
[10:50] <AnAnt> I don't understand
[10:50] <crimsun> sorry, I'm fairly useless right now, been staring at alsa* for the past 27-odd hours
[11:22] <Yagisan> Do we have an ubuntu-legal ? We have a package with a license that if I read correctly is unsuitable for Ubuntu.
[11:24] <Yagisan> as I read it, to comply with the license, we need to stop shipping python, perl, gcc et al
[11:24] <kgoetz> Yagisan: java? no we don't have a -legal
[11:24] <Yagisan> kgoetz: yeah, the sun-java package
[11:25] <kgoetz> Yagisan: I'm just in -devel asking. the reply is 'it's ok', but i'm a bit sus after reading Debian lists
[11:25] <Yagisan> kgoetz: I'm reading the license now, and it isn't any more free the the last one
[11:25] <kgoetz> Yagisan: i havent read it (that's Debian-legals job ;D), but i don't like the sound of it either
[11:42] <ivoks> so... java will get in main now, or what?
[11:42] <kgoetz> sun? multiverse
[11:42] <Yagisan> ivoks: no multiverse, so its ours
[11:42] <ivoks> Yagisan: ok
[11:43] <Yagisan> ivoks: and it still doesn't pass the DFSG enough for "non-free" or "multiverse"
[11:44] <ivoks> heh
[11:44] <Yagisan> ivoks: a windows EULA is more free. It at least doesn't prohibit competing solutions
[11:45] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: dfsg doesn't apply to non-free or multiverse, so that's fine.
[11:45] <Mithrandir> non-free and multiverse just needs us to be able to redistribute it, nothing more.
[11:46] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: sorry. Having my stuff rejected on those grounds for multiverse, makes me inclined to disagree with you
[11:46] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: oh, what was rejected?
[11:46] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: a game
[11:46] <Mithrandir> with what licence?
[11:46] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: no big deal, but I don't see why sun is special
[11:46] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: non-commercial
[11:46] <ivoks> Yagisan: it's sun :)
[11:47] <Mithrandir> that's not a licence.  That's a class of such
[11:47] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: also, Sun and Ubuntu might have an agreement which is not public for all I know.
[11:47] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: Raven Non-Commercial License
[11:47] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: in effect a BSD + You can't sell this
[11:48] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: if Sun and Ubuntu have an agreement, it isn't displayed when you install the package
[11:49] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: that doesn't decide whether it can be distributed or not.
[11:49] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: I'm not able to find any licence caled "raven non-commercial license"
[11:49] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: I'll get you a link. just a Sec
[11:54] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: Raven License http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/Ravenlic.txt
[11:55] <herzi> sivang: i don't think so
[11:56] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: the sun license, while granting redistribution, is over broad and restricts distribution of alternatives in section 2c. Reading that means, we must remove perl, python, gcc et al
[11:56] <herzi> sivang: no, it can't. http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=gq
[11:56] <kgoetz> Yagisan: you follow Debian-legel or -devel? if not i'll dig up the threads on sun java
[11:56] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: that licence doesn't allow redistribution, so it's not suitable even for non-free.
[11:57] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: I disagree with your interpretation of 2c.
[11:57] <Yagisan> kgoetz: I get the DD digest periodically. Haven't read them yet
[11:57] <herzi> sivang: but it's basically removing the debian-specific patches (except one) and copying the debian directory into a 1.0.0 tree
[11:58] <kgoetz> the stuff on -legal and -devel is worth a read if you want to talk about this stuff. severalpeople who know thier stuff talking
[11:59] <sivang> herzi: care to email me with the details? I can try take care of it when I arrive home.
[11:59] <herzi> address?
[11:59] <sivang> herzi: sivan@ubuntu.com
[11:59] <sivang> herzi: please reference the bug report number on LP, thanks
[11:59] <herzi> i'll do
[11:59] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: no not under European law it doesn't. That is irrelevant however, as the code is being rewritten under a GPL license.
[12:00] <sivang> herzi: thanks again, sorry for too many request but I'm currently at work and I don't want this to get lost :)
[12:00] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: there's no such thing as "european law".
[12:00] <herzi> that's fine
[12:01] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: and that the licence doesn't allow redistribution means, well, that it can't be redistributed.  At least in all jurisdictions I'm vaguely familiar with.
[12:01] <Mithrandir> ehlo Hobbsee
[12:01] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: in general if it isn't explicitly permitted, it is forbidden in most European countries correct ?
[12:01] <Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
[12:04] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: whilst here, if it isn't explicitly forbidden, it is permitted until a court or parliament rules otherwise.
[12:04] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: that's the so called "public law", iirc, yes.  Which applies to public law countries.
[12:04] <kgoetz> bbs
[12:05] <Mithrandir> s/public/civil)
[12:05] <Mithrandir> s/\)/\//
[12:05] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: I do agree the Raven License is not good, hence my desire to change it.
[12:06] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: yes, I'd suspect .au of being a common law country, not a civil law one, since it's part of the british commonwealth.
[12:06] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: the copyright laws in most parts of the world; both common and civil law countries do disallow redistribution unless explicitly granted, though.
[12:07] <Mithrandir> so I don't see why you think that distinction is important here?
[12:10] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: that distinction was Ubuntu's reason to reject some software until re-licensing is completed. How is sun-java more free ?
[12:11] <Mithrandir> it grants the explicit right of redistribution.
[12:12] <Mithrandir> the raven licence says: "Make copies of this Program or any part thereof, or make copies of
[12:12] <Mithrandir> the materials accompanying this Program."
[12:12] <Mithrandir> under the "You shall not" heading
[12:19] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: and removes the right to use it in conjunction with other languages, and amusingly enough forbids use of it to write portable java programs in section 2b.
[12:20] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: the "you can't use this to write java software to be distributed" clause is silly, but doesn't make it undistributable.
[12:22] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: no, but is it really in the interests of our users ?
[12:22] <Mithrandir> to be able to run java software they've gotten from somewhere?  I think so, yes.
[12:24] <Mithrandir> I have servers running proprietary java software where being able to just do apt-get install java-sun5 would be nice.  Not critical, but nicer than having to download and install it by hand.
[12:24] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: we had that ability. We have now traded it for no visible gain
[12:25] <Mithrandir> we did?
[12:25] <herzi> sivang: sent
[12:26] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: yeah. anything after java 1.4 wasn't guaranteed to work, though.
[12:26] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: the java-package workaround was just that, a workaround.
[12:27] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: blackdown
[12:27] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: which means adding random repositories to your apt setup, which is something I'd _really_ not do.
[12:27] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: with the new sun-java, according to the clause 2b, I can not write uni assignments with it
[12:27] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: use something else, then?
[12:30] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: j2re1.4 was in the official repos ...
[12:32] <Mithrandir> well, people will want java 5 so that's not so relevant
[12:32] <sivang> herzi: thanks
[12:34] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: well, people want kernel 2.6.16, so shipping 2.6.15 isn't relevant. Same argument, yet a different response isn't it.
[12:34] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: we'll be shipping 2.6.16 or .17 in eft.
[12:35] <Whoopie> first, many thanks for syncing sensors-applet and nautilus-actions!!!
[12:36] <Yagisan> anyway, I understand. It's sun, so it gets special treatment.
[12:36] <herzi> sivang: i'd like to see that update, so i'll do my part for it (releasing gq 1.0.0 and pushing debian/ubuntu to deliver it)
[12:37] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: you've so far failed to come up with any sort of backing for that statement.  You've pointed to a licence which _doesn't_ grant redistribution rights and which was therefore rejected.
[12:37] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: noth license have issues. both should be rejected. one was not
[12:37] <Whoopie> I'm little confused. I installed sensors-applet before from a local deb package. After "sudo apt-get update", the package wasn't installed from the universe repository. Before, when a package came into a repo which had the same version, it was updated by default. Did there change anything?
[12:38] <Yagisan> s/not/both
[12:38] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: why?  It's legal to distribute it and it's useful.
[12:39] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: why redistribute something that the license forbids using ?
[12:39] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: because it doesn't?
[12:39] <Mithrandir> it forbids using for some things.
[12:39] <Mithrandir> like, a bunch of stuff in multiverse is not legal to use commercially.
[12:40] <Mithrandir> it can still be useful for me to use at home
[12:40] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: it clearly does. You may not develop with this software, yet you ship a jdk, which exists to develop software
[12:40] <Mithrandir> you can develop stuff for your own use, which is useful.
[12:41] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: assuming you have an all Ubuntu environment.
[12:41] <Mithrandir> uh, why is it less useful if you have a Debian box sitting in a corner?
[12:45] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: sure, if you want to run that java software you made on the Ubuntu box using that sun-java package, on the Debian box, you can't without violating 2b. You do make end users agree to the DLJ-1.1 on install remember.
[12:46] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: why was it so vital to shove it into dapper at the last minute with such a problematic license ?
[12:48] <Mithrandir> copying software from one machine you control to another is usually not considered distribution
[12:49] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: I don't think the licence is particularly problematic.  Sure, it's inconvenient for the user in some places, but that's multiverse.
[12:49] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: but that is not what the license says, is it.
[12:51] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: the licence doesn't define what it means by the term "distribute", so a "common definition" must be used.
[12:52] <Mithrandir> anyway, I'm not particularly interested in this discussion, and I don't think we'll end up in agreement so I'll refrain from debating this further and rather debug openbox.
[12:52] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: no, the license says it may only run under your  "Operating System", once you go to that hypothetical Debian box, the "Operating System" has changed
[12:52] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: understood
[01:02] <cyberix> Dapper Java 5 packages are b0rked.
[01:02] <cyberix> I know you are not motm
[01:02] <cyberix> But I wasn't sure, if motm exists
[01:03] <cyberix> sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented
[01:03] <cyberix> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/sun-java5-bin_1.5.0-06-1_amd64.deb (--unpack): subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 2
[01:04] <Yagisan> bug #45292
[01:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45292 in sun-java5 "sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45292
[01:04] <Yagisan> cyberix: known. Please confirm it
[01:05] <cyberix> I don't have my launchpad account at hand.
[01:05] <cyberix> Maybe later today.
[01:09] <cyberix> The bug affects the non-interactive debconf frontend.
[01:11] <cyberix> Feel free to post a note including quotes from this irc dicussion.
[01:32] <StevenK_> Argh, I have a _.
[01:32] <StevenK_> Get it off!
[01:33] <StevenK> Ow!
[01:34] <Hobbsee> on his head.  silly StevenK!
[01:52] <sivang> kgoetz: http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~sivan/upbackup--main  , try this
[01:54] <kgoetz> sivang: do i bzr branch it? (sorry, i'm not familar as i would like with bzr
[01:54] <sivang> kgoetz: sure, that will get you my branhc and you could work on it and do bzr diff to send me patches against my last revisoin
[01:54] <kgoetz> cool ok.
[01:56] <sivang> kgoetz: I will be most happy to get patches, there is a nice bug list in LP :)
[01:56] <kgoetz> sivang: i'll try and get familiar with pythyon first :)
[01:58] <sivang> kgoetz: sure thing :)
[02:05] <kgoetz> is there a person i can go and ask 'how does compiling Gnome work', or is that an rtfw question?
[02:08] <herzi> kgoetz: that's both an faq and a rtfw
[02:08] <herzi> kgoetz: http://gnome.org/start/2.14/
[02:10] <kgoetz> thanks herzi
[02:11] <herzi> you're welcome
[02:11] <kgoetz> thanks ;)
[02:58] <beezly> kgoetz: i think i have a package that you can try and build/use.
[02:59] <kgoetz> beezly: Gnome?
[02:59] <beezly> the etc-in-svn spec.
[02:59] <beezly> except it's etc-in-bzr at the moment :)
[03:00] <kgoetz> beezly: cool :)
[03:00] <beezly> it's scrappy - but it does do something useful.
[03:02] <beezly> kgoetz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VersionControlledEtc has the info about where to download
[03:02] <kgoetz> i'll check it out soon :)
[03:03] <beezly> it's rough - but i just wanted to see it working. I've had it running since yesterday and ran a dist-upgrade earlier and it seems to have done sensible things.
[03:03] <beezly> i might mail to ubuntu-devel
[03:19] <iegary> hi... maybe someone has seen it, but I wanted to point out bug #29398 - I might get a chance to make some patches over the weekend, but not sure.
[03:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29398 in openmotif "CVE-2005-3964: Two exploitable buffer overflows in openmotif" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29398
[03:21] <crimsun> iegary: ok, please keep us updated about them. I'll try to look at that this afternoon.
[03:21] <iegary> crimsun: thanks
[04:14] <Hobbsee> dholbach: it's pretty hard to bug triage on bug day, if there arent people in #ubuntu-bugs helping out, from higher up, to ask questions from
[04:14] <dholbach> yeah
[04:14] <dholbach> I'll try to round up more people next time
[04:14] <Hobbsee> dholbach: that'd be cool :)
[04:26] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:26] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)
[04:26] <Mithrandir> it's the bddebian
[04:26] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee and Mithrandir
[04:26] <ajmitch> hello
[04:27] <Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch
[04:27] <bddebian> Hi ajmitch
[04:31] <Hobbsee> what are you doing awake ajmitch?  :P
[04:31] <ajmitch> me? awake?
[04:32] <Hobbsee> yes
[04:32] <Hobbsee> unless your'e typing while asleep :P
[04:33] <bddebian> Mithrandir: "the" bddebian? :-)
[04:33] <Mithrandir> bddebian: yup.
[04:34] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's a possibility
[04:34] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:34] <Hobbsee> oh fair enough
[04:45] <zakame> hi all, what meeting?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> zakame: ubuntu dev team
[04:46] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[04:47] <zakame> heya Hobbsee ! bddebian !
[04:47] <ajmitch> hi zakame
[04:47] <zakame> hi ajmitch !
[04:54] <siretart> bddebian: re bug #41592
[04:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41592 in vnc4 "UVF Exception: vnc4 (now sync request)" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41592
[04:54] <bddebian> siretart: Yeah, WTF?
[04:55] <siretart> bddebian: scott wants to know if you actually tested the new version, and have checked that ubuntu changes have been merged or not necessary anmore
[04:55] <siretart> anymore
[04:55] <siretart> bddebian: a sync overrides all local ubuntu changes. we need to double check if we really want to throw away work
[04:55] <bddebian> siretart: I know but I didn't know that somone had already brought in 4.1.1 which was what the original request was for.  I don't even know if a sync is necessary anymore
[04:55] <ajmitch> hi siretart
[04:55] <siretart> heyho ajmitch
[04:56] <siretart> bddebian: could you please check that?
[04:56] <bddebian> siretart: Check what?
[04:57] <siretart> bddebian: if we need to merge the package, or if all ubuntu changes can be dropped
[04:57] <ajmitch> bddebian: the changelog for 4.1.1 in ubuntu dates back to january though?
[05:01] <siretart> bddebian: look, you suggested a sync of version 4.1.1+X4.3.0-7 from unstable.
[05:01] <siretart> bddebian: in the meantime, we have 4.1.1+X4.3.0-10 in sid
[05:01] <siretart> bddebian: now in dapper we have version 4.1.1-0ubuntu4
[05:02] <siretart> bddebian: please compare the dapper and sid package, and day if we can drop the changes. or you can reject the request, if you think the version we have in dapper now is okay
[05:02] <bddebian> siretart: Did you look at my comment?  -10 is not in unstable unless packages.d.o is wrong
[05:03] <siretart> eris:~# apt-cache showsrc vnc4 | grep Version
[05:03] <siretart> Version: 4.1.1+X4.3.0-10
[05:03] <siretart> bddebian: eris is an unstable box
[05:03] <bddebian> siretart: Can you please pull the source and see if the .dsc is actually -10? please
[05:03] <ajmitch> confirmed, I see it as well
[05:03] <siretart> Bluekuja: please ask in channel. use dput on changes files rather than .dsc files
[05:03] <ajmitch> bddebian: it really really is
[05:04] <bddebian> ajmitch: Well I don't have a debian box and packages.d.o has -9.dsc
[05:04] <Bluekuja> sirestart: okie perfect let me see
[05:04] <ajmitch> bddebian: never trust web interfaces
[05:04] <ajmitch> bddebian: I use a sid chroot
[05:04] <siretart> bddebian: p.d.o is lagging behind a bit
[05:06] <Bluekuja> sirestart: same error with the .changes file
[05:09] <siretart> Bluekuja: no idea then
[05:09] <ajmitch> Bluekuja: what error?
[05:09] <Bluekuja> ajmitch: i paste you the error in a pastebin, just a second
[05:10] <ajmitch> ok
[05:11] <Bluekuja> ajmitch. here it is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14217
[05:12] <ajmitch> Bluekuja: pastebin the changes file please
[05:14] <Bluekuja> ajmitch: okie, here it is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14219
[05:16] <ajmitch> how was this signed?
[05:16] <tseng> what is this book?
[05:16] <Bluekuja> ajmitch: normal gpg signature
[05:17] <ajmitch> hm, bad
[05:17] <ajmitch> always use debsign, or debuild (which calls debsign)
[05:17] <ajmitch> hi doko
[05:18] <phanatic> hi people
[05:18] <Bluekuja> ajmitch: well no, it was pgp
[05:18] <ajmitch> Bluekuja: right, and it's not signing in the way dput is expecting
[05:19] <Bluekuja> ajmitch: exactly, dput doesnt accept pgp
[05:19] <bddebian> Heya phanatic
[05:19] <Bluekuja> ajmitch: thats why i get that
[05:19] <ajmitch> once that is done, then we can start on fixing the packaging errors :)
[05:19] <phanatic> hey bddebian
[05:19] <ajmitch> Bluekuja: ?
[05:19] <Bluekuja> ajmitch: i re-build the package with debuild
[05:20] <Bluekuja> ajmitch: so it will use debsign for it
[05:20] <ajmitch> yes
[05:20] <Bluekuja> thanks man, let me work on it for a while
[05:21] <Bluekuja> ;)
[05:23] <ajmitch> meeting is over, I can put the laptop down now
[05:25] <Hobbsee> sleep's overrated.
[05:27] <tuxmaniac> re
[05:28] <bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
[05:28] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: Hi. How was the trip??
[05:28] <bddebian> Interesting. ;-)   I wasn't supposed to come back until Friday
[05:31] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, KDE packages using cdbs just need a rebuild with your patch, right?
[05:31] <Gloubiboulga> and hi all :)
[05:32] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: which?  the cdbs patch?
[05:32] <Hobbsee> yes
[05:32] <Gloubiboulga> yep
[05:32] <Hobbsee> assuming they use the kde.mk that's in cdbs
[05:32] <Gloubiboulga> yep, thanks :)
[05:32] <Hobbsee> some have written their own kde.mk file, and redistribute that in with their package
[05:32] <Hobbsee> obviously that needs changing too...
[05:32] <phanatic> hi Gloubiboulga and Hobbsee
[05:33] <Gloubiboulga> heya phanatic :)
[05:33] <bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
[05:33] <Hobbsee> hi phanatic
[05:33] <Gloubiboulga> hi bddebian
[05:54] <Hobbsee> night all...
[06:18] <bddebian> siretart, dholbach, et al, can you please check Bug #44207 if you get a sec?  Thx.
[06:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44207 in libspiffy-perl "UVF Exception Request: libspiffy-perl" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44207
[06:24] <Tonio_> hello
[06:24] <bddebian> Heya Tonio_
[06:27] <Gloubiboulga> hello Tonio_ :)
[06:28] <Tonio_> hey Gloubiboulga
[06:30] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: How to handle these reports on
[06:31] <tuxmaniac> How to handle reports on .desktop missing!
[06:31] <bddebian> tuxmaniac: ?
[06:31] <tuxmaniac> bug #44821
[06:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44821 in gerbv "No .desktop file" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44821
[06:32] <tuxmaniac> How do I confirm accept do whatever with such type of bugs?
[06:32] <bddebian> tuxmaniac: Pull the source and see if there is a .desktop file in it
[06:34] <iegary> tuxmaniac: iirc, if it doesn't have a .desktop file but needs it, it's best to open a bug in the Debian BTS rather than add the patch in launchpad.
[06:34] <bddebian> There is one open in BTS
[06:38] <tuxmaniac> .desktop not present
[06:38] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: So I confirm it? Then how do we fix it or do anything
[06:39] <tuxmaniac> iegary: There is a BTS error open already!
[06:39] <bddebian> tuxmaniac: Make one :-)
[06:40] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: What do you mean by make one.. He has already relased a .desktop file http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=367366
[06:40] <tuxmaniac> I will confirm it?
[06:41] <iegary> tuxmaniac: yes, and link to the upstream bug.
[06:41] <tuxmaniac> iegary: Ok
[06:42] <tuxmaniac> linking to the upstream bug means??
[06:42] <Spec> oh :p
[06:43] <Spec> so I think the best thing to do is file a bug with both and provide a .desktop file on both launchpad and debian's BTS?
[06:43] <Spec> and then cross-link both bug reports?
[06:44] <iegary> tuxmaniac: click "Also affects 'Upstream'", select appropriate bug tracker, bug number, component.
[06:44] <tuxmaniac> ok
[06:44] <tuxmaniac> thanks iegary
[06:44] <iegary> Spec: as long as there's a pointer to upstream (you could say there's a patch upstream), no need to add an attachment again
[06:44] <neutrinomass> Spec: I've been filing stuff on the BTS and simply linking from launchpad. It's probably pointless to add the .desktop to LP as well, since you might want to change it.
[06:45] <iegary> talk to sfllaw if you need more info on what the preferred way is
[06:45] <neutrinomass> Should I stop filing the bug reports and just file on the debian BTS ?
[06:46] <iegary> neutrinomass: I forget what sfllaw said... the bug report won't hurt though.
[06:46] <Spec> mmhmm
[06:46] <Spec> to file on debian's BTS you have to do it via e-mail :-/
[06:47] <Spec> or reportbug
[06:47] <bddebian> No, you don't have to but it's preferred i think :-)
[06:47] <Spec> is reportbug on ubuntu for debian's BTS?
[06:47] <neutrinomass> iegary: OK. I don't remember talking to sfllaw but I was generally told that it's beter to go upstream to minimize the packaging effort for Ubuntu.
[06:47] <neutrinomass> Spec: Yes, and it's considered a bug. The e-mail thing is not that tough after all (I was reluctant to use it at first too ).
[06:48] <Spec> reportbug on ubuntu reporting to debian is considered a bug? :p
[06:48] <tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: I guess he product of gerbv is geda!?
[06:48] <tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: BTW you seem to be my taste? EDA developer?
[06:48] <Spec> but all the packages that are directly imported from debian should have bugs filed against them on debian's BTS
[06:48] <bddebian> But if you just add it to BTS and we don't sync that package again, it won't get in Dapper eh?
[06:48] <neutrinomass> Bug #7839
[06:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 7839 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu bug reporting tools need to point to Ubuntu bug systems" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/7839
[06:48] <Spec> hehe
[06:48] <Spec> well, that means i can use reportbug ^.^
[06:49] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Not really. I just decided that given my lack of ability to do anything else, I might as well write desktop files :(
[06:50] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Sorry, I can't understand your geda/gerbv comment ..
[06:50] <Spec> meh, i smell chicken. and it smells good.
[06:50] <tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: There is a column called product in which the name has to be put.. gerbv is not present
[06:51] <tuxmaniac> geda I guess will be suitable?
[06:51] <neutrinomass> bddebian: Well, the package maintainer can always get the .desktop from the debian bts if they wish to upload it for dapper.
[06:51] <tuxmaniac> in the Affects Upstream Link in LP
[06:51] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Oooops, sorry. I thought I filed it correctly. IIRC the package should be 'gerbv'
[06:52] <tuxmaniac> yes.. But it says invalid product when I mention gerbv
[06:53] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Um...possible. I distinctly remember filing it under "gerbv" too.... I just checked and the package 'gerbv' exists though ...
[06:53] <tuxmaniac> package exists!! But somehow it is not accepting
[06:54] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: The product name in "Request fix in a product" is to be put as what?
[06:56] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: We're talking about bug 44821 right? It's under 'gerbv' ...
[06:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44821 in gerbv "No .desktop file" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44821
[06:57] <neutrinomass> Btw, when filing the bug reports for the .desktops, should I set them to "confirmed" and "minor" myself to save the others from the triaging ?
[06:58] <tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gerbv/+bug/44821/+upstreamtask
[06:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44821 in gerbv "No .desktop file" [Minor,Confirmed] 
[06:58] <tuxmaniac> it does not allow me to mention the product name as gerbv
[06:59] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Ah.... I understand. I don't know. This is a non-issue anyway so it doesn't really matter, right ? :) (nice to learn what EDA stands for btw )
[07:00] <tuxmaniac> I am putting it as geda and leaving it ther!
[07:05] <bddebian> neutrinomass: There is no "package maintainer" in Universe :)
[07:06] <tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: Masters of the Universe!!!! :)
[07:07] <neutrinomass> bddebian: Interesting....So the maintainer listed on LP is for nominal reasons ?
[07:08] <tuxmaniac> Mostly they match with the upstream maintainers name :)
[07:08] <tuxmaniac> I mean sorry
[07:08] <tuxmaniac> Debian Maintainer name
[07:09] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Ohhh, that explains it :) This is intentional I suppose so that packages don't get left out when maintainers disappear ?
[07:09] <tuxmaniac> Am I right master bddebian
[07:09] <tuxmaniac> IMO yes neutrinomass ! For instance the maintainer of xcircuit has disappeared orphaning the package in Debian which means blah blah bah
[07:09] <bddebian> tuxmaniac: Afaik yes.  Might be different for main packages, I don't know. :-)
[07:11] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: have you seen carthik around for sometime? His bug report on xcircuit needs to be changed to fix released :D
[07:11] <tuxmaniac> bug 42976
[07:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42976 in xcircuit "Xcircuit menus don't work. " [Normal,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42976
[07:13] <bddebian> tuxmaniac: So fix it :)
[07:13] <tuxmaniac> :)
[07:14] <neutrinomass> Um... what should be done wrt to the .desktop file with programs that have icons in .xbm format, which doesn't get shown in the menus? e.g. tkgate
[07:15] <tuxmaniac> another EDA tool..
[07:16] <Spec> what's EDA?
[07:16] <neutrinomass> lol tuxmaniac. I'll deserve you're love if I port them to gtk2 so they won't look butt-ugly :-P
[07:16] <neutrinomass> Electronic Design Automation
[07:16] <Spec> neutrinomass: I suppose you should translate .xbm to .xpm?
[07:16] <neutrinomass> Spec: Is that the correct way to deal with it, or should a bug be filed against the menu-creation-thing to support .xbm files too ?
[07:17] <tuxmaniac> I would appreciate that act neutrinomass
[07:17] <tuxmaniac> :)
[07:17] <neutrinomass> Unless .xbm and .xpm are the same thing with different extensions, which I doubt :S
[07:17] <Spec> neutrinomass: hehe, good question....
[07:17] <Spec> neutrinomass: what does menu-creation-thing support anyways, other than xpm?
[07:17] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Heh, I think I'll stick to .desktops. Nobody uses EDAs anyway ! :P
[07:18] <neutrinomass> Spec: AFAIK .gif .svg .png and I suppose .jpg .ico
[07:18] <Spec> hah
[07:18] <Spec> I don't know what Electronic Design Automation is, still
[07:18] <Spec> at least i know what EDA stands for ^.^
[07:19] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: You know I'm right ;) That's why they are all dead upstream. Everybody uses ICs anyway so they don't really to design stuff :-P
[07:19] <neutrinomass> s/really/really need
[07:19] <tuxmaniac> iverilog / geda are not dead upstream!
[07:19] <tuxmaniac> iverilog every week a release is happening!
[07:19] <tuxmaniac> And do you know the importance of EDA tools?
[07:20] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: I was joking actually but you proved my point anyway! There are so many EDA tools and you just mentioned 2 that are still alive.
[07:20] <tuxmaniac> You wont be seeing what I am typing without one
[07:20] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: I was kidding, relax :)
[07:20] <tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: That was just a example!! pcb just released a multilayered pcb layout capability!!
[07:20] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: I promise you that if I learn to design stuff, I'll design them using Linux EDA tools !
[07:20] <tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: Heh..
[07:21] <tuxmaniac> GNU/Linux EDA tools are not up there according to the industry standards.. but are catching up!
[07:21] <neutrinomass> ...using tk ?
[07:22] <Spec> neutrinomass: you've been sending .desktop files to debian's BTS via e-mail?
[07:23] <neutrinomass> Spec: Yes, it's not that annoying after all.
[07:23] <Spec> you mean...PCB designs?
[07:23] <Spec> i've looked into some programs designed for PCBs, they all sucked on linux :-/
[07:24] <Spec> it was a while ago, maybe they've improved a little :)
[07:24] <Spec> but seriously, i felt like i was drawing with a sharpie on a PCB
[07:24] <tuxmaniac> Spec: thats better.. why dont you contribute by making it better rather than just whine abt it :D
[07:24] <tuxmaniac> Spec: I agree to it
[07:24] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: You're an electronic engineer then ?
[07:25] <Spec> tuxmaniac: because i don't design circuits every day :p
[07:25] <Spec> in fact, i've yet to make a PCB
[07:25] <tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: yes  :) Hardcore.. Professionaly an Embedded System Software developer
[07:25] <Spec> tuxmaniac: you can make PCBs?
[07:25] <tuxmaniac> working for a Car Multimedia Systems German firm
[07:25] <tuxmaniac> yes
[07:25] <Spec> wanna make me one?
[07:25] <tuxmaniac> Spec: ^
[07:25] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: From the very little that I've seen of them, the main problem is that they all look awful.
[07:25] <Spec> i don't have the equipment needed to solder the chip I need soldered :p
[07:26] <tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: hmmm
[07:26] <tuxmaniac> Spec: heh
[07:26] <neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Being nowhere close to an electronic engineer though, my opinion is not to be taken seriously :)
[07:27] <tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: Dont bother.. It was nice to have some mini fight after a long time!!
[07:28] <Spec> tinfoil hat linux, hah! :p
[07:28] <neutrinomass> Spec:  Seems that .xbm is not the same with .xpm after all. Renaming the icon didn't work :) Do you know what is responsible for creating the menus ?
[07:29] <Spec> nope ^.^
[07:29] <bddebian> .xpm is the icon file
[07:29] <Spec> what is xbm?
[07:29] <Spec> x bitmap
[07:29] <imbrandon_> xbm?
[07:29] <bddebian> Make sure that the .desktop is in /usr/share/applications/
[07:29] <neutrinomass> bddebian: tkgate's icon is .xbm format which doesn't show up in the menu
[07:29] <tuxmaniac> its X Bitmap
[07:30] <imbrandon_> morning Spec bddebian and others ;)
[07:30] <bddebian> neutrinomass: Is the Icon= path hardcoded?
[07:30] <neutrinomass> bddebian: The Icon doesn't show, the entry shows.
[07:30] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon_
[07:30] <neutrinomass> bddebian: Yes, because tkgate puts the icon in /usr/share/tkgate/bitmaps, and names it "smalllogo.xbm"
[07:30] <imbrandon_> heya tux ;)
[07:31] <imbrandon_> just wopke up gimme some slack ;)
[07:31] <imbrandon_> woke*
[07:31] <tuxmaniac> imbrandon_: Thats better!
[07:31] <Spec> tuxmaniac: any chance you know anything about A/D converters?
[07:31] <bddebian> neutrinomass: Is the file actually there? ;-)
[07:31] <tuxmaniac> Spec: I work on them day in and day out!
[07:31] <Spec> tuxmaniac: I need a Notes on AD converter selection: pick out a 1 channel, 8 bit converter with an insanely high number of samples per second. 1 GSPS
[07:31] <Spec> *did not just copy/pate what he needed because he's lazy*
[07:32] <Spec> i actually have two, but they aren't solderable DIPs
[07:32] <Spec> it's like a quarter-inch square with 40 pins, way too small
[07:33] <tuxmaniac> Spec: What board is that?
[07:33] <Spec> dunno, let me see if i can find the chip i have
[07:33] <neutrinomass> bddebian: lol yes, but apparently the whatever-creates-menus doesn't show .xbm files (although they even show in nautilus preview)
[07:34] <Spec> wow, it's gonna be hard to find an 8-bit 1GSPS ad converter :p
[07:36] <tuxmaniac> maxim has one I guess!
[07:36] <tuxmaniac> Let me google
[07:36] <tuxmaniac> wait
[07:36] <bddebian> neutrinomass: OK
[07:36] <tuxmaniac> Spec: MAX104
[07:36] <Spec> I got two at analog.com
[07:36] <Spec> but i can't find 'em, and i don't have them with me (@work)
[07:36] <Spec> damn
[07:36] <Spec> awesome
[07:37] <Spec> so If I hand you a schematic and mail you that chip, you tryin' to solder it? *innocent*
[07:37] <Spec> pfft, i can't do it :)
[07:37] <tuxmaniac> You need to have SMD Kit to do high fundoo soldering
[07:37] <tuxmaniac> specially soldering those kinda boards
[07:38] <tuxmaniac> But I have a company!! Do the soldering for free for you :P
[07:38] <neutrinomass> bddebian: Do you know what is responsible for creating the menus? (to file a wishlist bug against it )
[07:38] <Spec> high fundoo?
[07:38] <bddebian> neutrinomass: I believe it's nautilus but I'm not sure
[07:38] <tuxmaniac> http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2026
[07:39] <tuxmaniac> Spec: ^^
[07:39] <tuxmaniac> Spec: High fundoo in desi terms means hi fi or something sooper!
[07:39] <Spec> what does a package: 192/ESBGA-25x25 look like?
[07:40] <Spec> I think I recall mine being QFP or something
[07:41] <tuxmaniac> No idea
[07:45] <tuxmaniac> anybody here uses netowrk manager?
[07:47] <iegary> tuxmaniac: I've been trying out a bit recently, at home.
[07:47] <iegary> trying it out
[07:47] <tuxmaniac> hmm ok
[07:48] <bddebian> Can Hobbsee upload?
[07:50] <crimsun> bddebian: not afaik
[07:50] <imbrandon_> bddebian, not that i know of
[07:50] <bddebian> OK, thx
[07:50] <bddebian> Hi crimsun
[07:50] <crimsun> hi bddebian
[07:50] <imbrandon_> heya crimsun
[07:50] <crimsun> heya imbrandon_
[07:52] <Spec> neutrinomass: do you attatch the .desktop file or just put it in the body of the e-mail?
[07:53] <imbrandon_> bddebian / crimsun , either one of you guys got something an aspiring motu can work on today ( besides dh_iconcache ) btw bddebian if you wanna upload a small one i got one diff left on my hdd ( http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/temp/ )
[07:53] <dholbach> imbrandon_: look at the topic
[07:53] <dholbach> imbrandon_: we have some quite other to work on
[07:53] <hub> hi
[07:54] <dholbach> and if somebody'd update the list of unmetdeps I certainly wouldn't mind
[07:54] <dholbach> or rather file new bugs
[07:54] <imbrandon_> kk dholbach i'll take a look ;) thanks
[07:54] <neutrinomass> Spec: I attach it, but I don't know if I should be doing so. Nobody from debian has responded.
[07:54] <dholbach> imbrandon_: rock on
[07:54] <Spec> neutrinomass: why are there two desktop files for every package?
[07:54] <dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile has the script for doing massfiling of bugs
[07:54] <neutrinomass> Spec: There are ?
[07:55] <dholbach> enjoy
[07:55] <bddebian> imbrandon_: Yeah the libmysqlclient crap :-)
[07:55] <Spec> err, /usr/share/app-install/desktop and /usr/share/applications/desktop
[07:55] <bddebian> imbrandon_: You can look at kbanking if you want.  I have rebuilt it twice now and it still tries to depend on libkbanking1 (=0.9.9-1) or some such :-(
[07:56] <imbrandon_> k
[07:56] <bddebian> Spec: Shouldn't be
[07:56] <Spec> hmm, the actual package only has a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications/
[07:56] <tuxmaniac> Anybody  knows how to start networkmanager on Dapper! Seems like it is not coming up at all!
[07:56] <imbrandon_> bddebian, you see the one and only lonely diff i had in that dir ?
[07:56] <neutrinomass> Spec: I'm not sure what the /usr/share/app-install thing is for. It includes .desktops even for packages that you haven't installed IIRC. But I know that if you copy the deskto pin /usr/share/applications, it works ;)
[07:56] <bddebian> imbrandon_: ??
[07:56] <imbrandon_> http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/temp/  <--- last of my dh_iconcache uploads
[07:57] <imbrandon_> one left to do
[07:57] <bddebian> imbrandon_: Ah, OK
[07:57] <neutrinomass> Spec: Just one tip when filing bugs with Debian. It should be "Package: blah", not "Package : blah" (notice the whitespace)
[07:57] <bddebian> I think the app-install used to be where KDE expected them???
[07:58] <Spec> yeap
[07:58] <Spec> to neutrinomass, dunno to bddebian
[08:00] <Spec> should Icon= be relative or hard?
[08:00] <iegary> tuxmaniac: it's started by dbus - so /etc/init.d/dbus restart should help
[08:03] <neutrinomass> Spec: There is no definite view on it. It's a good idea to leave it relative, and without the extension. e.g. if the icon is /usr/share/pixmaps/spec.png, then Icon="spec" (yes, without the extension) is fine, since it shows.
[08:05] <neutrinomass> Spec: AFAIK the freedesktop.org specification does not specify this. What I do is use just "spec", unless the icon is in a non-standard location in which case I have to use the absolute filename.
[08:08] <neutrinomass> Spec: for hints on how to do .desktops take a look at the .desktops I've done. I'm doing thing wrong usually and Phil Bull keeps giving me rather useful advice.
[08:11] <sits> dholbach: are you there?
[08:11] <dholbach> sits: you could say that - hello!
[08:11] <dholbach> how can I help you?
[08:12] <sits> dholbach: could you take another look at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=342236
[08:12] <sits> please?
[08:12] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 342236 in Mailer "Dropdown from collapsed evolution toolbar is not displayed" [Minor,Unconfirmed] 
[08:12] <dholbach> yes
[08:13] <dholbach> sits: ok, looked at.
[08:13] <Toadstool> hi dholbach
[08:13] <dholbach> hi Toadstool
[08:14] <dholbach> sits: ok
[08:14] <dholbach> sits: what do you want me to do now?
[08:18] <Spec> How do I make the menu-system refresh itself?
[08:20] <sits> dholbach: does using my improved steps make it any more reproducible?
[08:21] <sits> oh hang on
[08:21] <sits> wrong bug
[08:21] <hub> heya
[08:21] <dholbach> hey hub
[08:21] <sits> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/45007
[08:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45007 in totem "Segfault thumbnailing PNG image .mov" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[08:21] <sits> there we go
[08:22] <imbrandon_> heya hub
[08:22] <sits> dholbach: sorry about that
[08:22] <dholbach> dont worry
[08:23] <neutrinomass> sits: I think I can confirm that issue...
[08:23] <sits> neutrinomass: thanks to the improved steps?
[08:24] <dholbach> sits: it might make sense to get a backtrace with the gstreamer dbg packages installed
[08:24] <hub> what's up in the universe?
[08:24] <neutrinomass> sits: Nope, just saw your steps. I'll go through them though...
[08:28] <neutrinomass> sits: Confirmed. I saw a seg fault after 10-15 terminated
[08:28] <sits> yeah
[08:28] <neutrinomass> sits: On the 13th actually ...
[08:28] <sits> it's abit erratic
[08:29] <dholbach> f you could get a backtrace with the gstreamer dbg packages - that'd help
[08:29] <dholbach> hub: major last minute fixing is going on :)
[08:29] <dholbach> hub: I added some stuff to the topic, but there's much more
[08:30] <hub> sorry I haven't been of much help lately
[08:30] <hub> busy with too much things
[08:30] <dholbach> I think hwe all understand
[08:30] <dholbach> bddebian: pffft
[08:30] <neutrinomass> sits: Should I get the backtrace or will you do so ?
[08:31] <Laser_away> bddebian: that's my job ;-)
[08:31] <bddebian> Laser_away: :-)
[08:33] <tseng> dholbach: is there anything cool in 2.15?
[08:33] <sits> neutrinomass: I've just about got one
[08:33] <sits> having resorted to gdb
[08:33] <tseng> dholbach: oh, there is the changes
[08:33] <bddebian> Heya tseng
[08:33] <tseng> hi
[08:34] <dholbach> tseng: 2.15 what?
[08:34] <tseng> dholbach: GNOME!
[08:35] <Spec> Is debian's menu system different than Ubuntu's?
[08:35] <tseng> but i found it
[08:35] <tseng> Spec: we dont really use it
[08:35] <tseng> its available
[08:35] <dholbach> tseng: man I wish I had the time to look into that stuff
[08:35] <tseng> most Debian users don't use it either I bet, its old
[08:35] <Laser_away> Spec: yes, much different. Debian doesn't use .desktops for its menu
[08:35] <tseng> we have a sane freedesktop menu now
[08:35] <Spec> the package gsnes9x has a .desktop file in /usr/share/gnome/apps/Games/gsnes9x.desktop
[08:35] <tseng> ok?
[08:35] <Spec> it doesn't show up in the menu system for Ubuntu, who do I file a bug with?
[08:36] <bddebian> imbrandon: Uploaded
[08:36] <Spec> upstream or LP?
[08:36] <bddebian> Spec: Ideally both.
[08:36] <tseng> it should be /usr/share/applications
[08:36] <tseng> iirc
[08:36] <Spec> yeap
[08:36] <sits> neutrinomass: you're good for the confirm though
[08:36] <tseng> since a year or so ago
[08:36] <neutrinomass> sits: Ok, I'll set it to confirmed and drop a note as well.
[08:38] <sits> neutrinomass: I wish I'd know you were going to file a backtrace though. It would have saved aptitiude deciding to pull up my firefox lang packs
[08:41] <sits> neutrinomass: thanks
[08:41] <sits> right that's enough bug triage for the day
[08:47] <imbrandon> thanks bddebian
[08:48] <bddebian> no, thank YOU :-)
[08:48] <imbrandon> ;0
[08:49] <imbrandon> one of these days i'll get some more under my belt and apply to be a motu ;) maybe by the end of this summer
[08:49] <bddebian> Great
[08:49] <imbrandon> thats what i'm working twords atleaste ;)
[08:50] <bddebian> Maybe I'll shoot for main by end of summer ;-P
[08:51] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:55] <imbrandon> dumb question but is there a way for me to tell ubuntu to ignore a certain pci slot on boot ? ( reason i ask is breezy live and normal install boots fine in this particular computer but dapper dosent , hangs on boot or live cd bootup with this pci card installed , if i pull the card dapper boots fine so I know its the card , basicly i just want dapper to ignor it like breezy did )
[08:56] <imbrandon> and no i cant remove the card perminately ( its needed in windows via dual boot )
[08:59] <neutrinomass> Spec: I just got a response to a Debian bug about .desktop files and they told me that "Debian does not use .desktop files.  Such files are generated automatically only if needed."
[09:00] <Spec> eh
[09:00] <Spec> really?
[09:01] <Spec> well, good thing we cross-filed our bugs onto LP
[09:01] <Spec> :)
[09:01] <Spec> and by 'we', i meant I did with my three bugs :p
[09:01] <Laser_away> neutrinomass: right, and we are saying they are needed :-)
[09:01] <neutrinomass> Spec: Yeah. I'll get beaten for this I fear because I've opened ~10 reports at debian about .desktop files
[09:01] <Spec> I've only done 3 :)
[09:01] <Spec> well, they wouldn't get bug reports if they included .desktop files, now would they? :)
[09:01] <neutrinomass> Spec: Lol yeah, I'll write to tell them just taht .
[09:02] <Spec> what's the worse that can happen? :p
[09:02] <Laser_away> neutrinomass: I think it is a legitimate bug, don't worry too much if a few DDs don't like it
[09:02] <Spec> well....some debian packages come with .desktop files
[09:03] <Laser_away> we might have to send .desktop files to the software authors if Debian refuses
[09:04] <Spec> will upstream care?
[09:04] <neutrinomass> Laser_away: I'm doing just that anyway. If upstream is alive I send it upstream. At least this DD was good. Apparently there was some bug in some other menu-creation thing to which I drew his attention (I didn't understand how) and at least he thanked me for that.
[09:05] <Spec> we need an insider DD to create .desktop files for us.
[09:06] <neutrinomass> Spec: They care. I got told off again today by upstream. I told them "it's an absolute path because you're putting your icon in /usr/lib. Although I am not sure about this, according to the FHS you should probably be putting arch-independant stuff in /usr/share".
[09:06] <Spec> FHS?
[09:07] <Laser_away> neutrinomass: icons should go in /usr/share/pixmaps
[09:07] <neutrinomass> Spec: Fileystem Hierarchy Standard
[09:07] <Laser_away> Spec: I don't think an inside person would help
[09:08] <Spec> ah
[09:08] <neutrinomass> Laser_away: Well not according to Openstep/Coca, whatever that is. And "not all the world conforms to the FHS".
[09:08] <Laser_away> basically because Debian has their own menu system they really don't care about fd.org
[09:09] <Spec> which menu system is 'better'?
[09:09] <Laser_away> neutrinomass: all I know is that is were icons generally go
[09:09] <Laser_away> Spec: fd.org of course ;-)
[09:09] <Laser_away> it is what Gnome, KDE, and other WMs use
[09:09] <neutrinomass> Laser_away: Anyway. I was particularly annoyed with this dev so I'm just ranting about now. So we should not send .desktops to debian after all ?
[09:09] <Spec> so, if a DD e-mails me about .desktop files, I'll just reply fd.org is better than you. bow down.
[09:10] <Laser_away> neutrinomass: no, continue to send them
[09:10] <Laser_away> Spec: sure
[09:10] <Laser_away> ;-)
[09:10] <Spec> hehe
[09:11] <Laser_away> no, I think it would be appropriate to say the .desktop files are a freedesktop.org standard and are used by the Gnome and KDE menus
[09:11] <Laser_away> if they don't want to do it fine, we either get the authors to do it or we do it ourselves
[09:11] <neutrinomass> Laser_away: OK. Should I respond to this DD that told me just now that "debian doesn't use .desktops" ?
[09:12] <imbrandon> neutrinomass, i would respond to it in that kde/gnome use them not debian
[09:12] <imbrandon> thats me personaly
[09:12] <neutrinomass> Laser_away: Or just comment on LP that "Debian rejected the .desktop because they don't like .desktops" ?
[09:12] <Laser_away> neutrinomass: it's up to you, you could mention that Gnome and KDE do use them even if the Debian menu does not
[09:13] <Laser_away> neutrinomass: what is the Debian bug # ?
[09:13] <neutrinomass> nothing there...
[09:14] <neutrinomass> it's debian bug #367821
[09:14] <Spec> Debian's BTS is slow
[09:15] <Laser_away> heh, tell me about it
[09:15] <Spec> and ugly :p
[09:15] <Spec> LP is superior, even if it's confusing and complex and a little buggy at first :p
[09:16] <hub> I have a cmake update on REVU
[09:16] <hub> I'd like to have it for edgy, so that people can build KDE4 on Ubuntu :-)
[09:16] <Laser_away> Spec: they each have the strengths and weaknesses for sure
[09:17] <crimsun> hub: Edgy won't be a prob for it :-)
[09:17] <crimsun> prob->problem
[09:17] <hub> crimsun: but it needs review :-)
[09:17] <crimsun> cf. June 8th
[09:19] <hub> yeah
[09:19] <hub> are you all gonna be in paris?
[09:19] <crimsun> I won't, as work has me committed here
[09:21] <hub> neither can I, unfortunately
[09:21] <hub> 'cause I would be able to have free bedroom at my mom
[09:21] <crimsun> :-)
[09:22] <hub> i'm not even sure for guadec
[10:30] <LaserJock> hub: I'm going
[10:54] <sistpoty> hi folks
[10:54] <LaserJock> hi sistpoty!
[10:54] <Spec> heya
[10:55] <sistpoty> bddebian: strange thing, seems like you and me uploaded the same package (htcheck) and *both* seem to have gotten accepted
[10:58] <ogra> sistpoty, yep, there is a LP bug open about that since some time
[10:58] <sistpoty> ogra: k, thx... then I won't bother guys in #lp with it ;)
[10:59] <ogra> :)
[10:59] <bddebian> sistpoty: Nice
[10:59] <sistpoty> :)
[11:19] <sistpoty> cya
[11:38] <dholbach> night fellas
[11:40] <LaserJock> cya dholbach
[11:40] <dholbach> night LaserJock
[11:41] <LaserJock> dholbach: get all rested up so we can bug you more when you come back :-)
[11:41] <bddebian> hehe
[11:41] <dholbach> I'll try to :)
[11:44] <bddebian> Later folks