=== vud1 [n=vud1@unaffilitated/vud1] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === imbrandon [n=Brandon@unaffiliated/imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:06] morning [01:07] ;) [01:07] heya everyone *yawns* [01:10] 'morning ajmitch, imbrandon [01:12] Is launchpad still down/in read-only? [01:13] should be back up [01:13] Cheers. === FunnyLookinHat [n=FunnyLoo@71.57.11.218] has joined #ubuntu-motu === hub [n=hub@toronto-hs-216-138-231-194.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === abelcheung [n=abelcheu@221.126.145.12] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-motu === nictuku [n=yves@ubuntu/member/nictuku] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === marcin_ [n=marcin@194.114.146.58] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mkrufky [n=mk@user-1087ltj.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:13] we at linuxtv.org just released dvb-apps 1.1.1 -- it is exactly the same as 1.1.0, with added support for ATSC ... could this be added to ubuntu sooner than later? [02:13] http://linuxtv.org/download/linuxtv-dvb-apps-1.1.1.tar.bz2 [02:14] mkrufky: for Edgy, sure. For Dapper? No. [02:14] that is understandable [02:14] however........ [02:14] mkrufky: on the other hand, if the changes in 1.1.1 are unintrusive and consist mainly of #defines, then sure, you could backport them. [02:14] does dapper actually have a realistic release date now? [02:15] yeah, 1 june. [02:15] freeze is essentially this saturday. [02:15] we released 1.1.1 purely for the sake of letting americans and koreans use atsc [02:15] it is exactly 1.1.0 .... all of the new stuff was held back [02:15] right, but realise we've been in upstream version freeze since /mid-February/ [02:16] the atsc support has been sitting there for over a year -- i just finally convinced the dvb-apps maintainer to put out this release for us poor americans/ canadians / koreans [02:16] yes, i do realize that [02:16] generate a debdiff against the current Dapper package, then, and file a bug attaching the debdiff [02:17] hmm... i never read up on the motu stuff [02:17] if someone can't eyeball the patch and approve it in 10 seconds, it's not worth it. [02:17] is there a wiki anywhere that explains the debdiff stuff? im sure its probably simple, i just dont know it [02:17] meaning: if it adds swathes of code, don't bother until Edgy opens [02:17] it adds a bit... not very much [02:18] but i can understand if you'd want to wait [02:18] im really hoping to get the livecd distros to adopt it befor e the next releases [02:18] may you put it on the to-do list? or do i have to file a bug or something? [02:19] http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ubuntu-sync.html [02:19] read the debdiff section(s) [02:19] ok [02:19] you should also read the Debian New Maintainer's and Developer's Guides [02:19] we're /extremely/ short on resources, so there's no guarantee that any of us will actually look until Edgy [02:20] i understand [02:20] im a kernel maintainer... in the same boat [02:20] ;-) [02:20] then I'm sure you know why we prefer to defer :-) [02:20] (note, im not THE maintainer.... just one of them) ... and yes, completely understandable why you'd want to wait === crimsun returns to sound/core/ [02:21] ok, thanks === Fade [n=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mkrufky is now known as mkrufky_ === mkrufky [n=mk@user-1087ltj.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mkrufky_ [n=mk@user-1087ltj.cable.mindspring.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:02] welp, I think that just about does it for sound/ for Dapper. === crimsun sighs and gets coffee [03:06] crimsun: at kernel freeze? [03:10] sorry I haven't had time to reproduce my doom3/quake4 sound problem === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:21] ajmitch: nearly [03:22] well, at least the critical issues are either user hardware-specific or in userspace, so I have a bit of breathing room === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu === awbassett [n=awbasset@74.136.208.82] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mkrufky is now known as mkrufky-relaxin === mkrufky-relaxin is now known as mkrufky === mkrufky is now known as mkrufky-away === mkrufky-away is now known as mkrufky === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rbelem [n=rodrigo@ubuntu/member/rbelem] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-003-022.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === adu [n=adu@m010f36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === adu [n=adu@m010f36d0.tmodns.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-68-38-202-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === irvin [n=vx@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:24] hi bddebian [04:24] Heya ajmitch [04:24] Hi gang [04:24] Hello HurdFreak :P === imbrandon [n=Brandon@unaffiliated/imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:25] Heya Kyral === ajmitch needs a strong drink or something [04:45] ajmitch: Me too man === tritium tends bar === FunnyLookinHat [n=FunnyLoo@71.57.11.218] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-015-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doko [n=doko@201.160.17.131.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #ubuntu-motu === No1Viking [n=micke@h-83-140-104-3.ip.rixbredband.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bpuccio [n=brian@ool-457a9c38.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:28] hi everybody! [05:30] Heya LaserJock [05:32] bddebian: have you fixed/broken Universe yet? :-) [05:32] Suuure :-) [05:38] so I talked to the department sys admin today [05:38] Yeah and? :-) [05:38] he was thinking of trying to teach a scripting/scientific computing class [05:39] bash+python for scientists [05:39] Cool [05:39] and so we were thinking that we could convert our present department computer lab into an Ubuntu LTSP setup [05:40] and team teach the class in there [05:40] that's cool, but ... ouch? Surely there's an MPI/OpenMP class? [05:40] MPI/OpenMP? [05:41] MPI and OpenMP are alternate and widely used paradigms in computational science [05:41] crimsun: no, I'm thinking of stuff like "what does the ls command do?" ;-) [05:41] we have linux computational clusters etc. but nobody knows linux [05:42] so we have people doing lots of repetative tasks by hand [05:42] (you shouldn't have to know Linux anyhow) [05:44] Ubuntu LTSP is a step in the right direction at least [05:44] right now we have a bunch of buggy XP machines that people don't really use for chemistry [05:45] the problem right now is that there is a distinct lack of linux knowledge [05:45] shouldn't take long to teach them the basics [05:45] or of scripting knowledge in general (even python on Windows_ [05:46] yeah [05:46] but somebody needs to do it ;-) [05:46] it's fairly useful to know [05:46] a friend of mine doing his phd in microbiology does a lot of stuff with perl - scripting knowledge has helped him quite a bit [05:47] he also has enough linux knowledge to get by [05:47] some of our international grad students have know computer experience at all and they are dumped into computational chemistry [05:48] ubuntu does make it easy though [05:49] well, Ubuntu has a lot more chemistry software than what we presently have in the computer lab [05:49] and it has a lot of python stuff [05:49] it's not a particularly hard system to learn on === ajmitch fetches the latest daily [05:51] hi [05:51] hi chillywilly [05:51] Heya chillywilly [05:51] sigh [05:51] 410G 375G 32G 93% /usr/local [05:51] wow [05:52] yeah [05:52] *sigh* It's up to me to finish the bottle of wine we opened tonight... [05:52] most of that isn't actual used space [05:52] /usr/local? What have you got in there? [05:52] hi tritium [05:52] hi LaserJock [05:52] tritium: Sounds rough :-) [05:52] bddebian: :) [05:52] since I have a 165GB loopback file which I'll use as a LVM physical volume to backup stuff :) [05:52] Well, I might have a headache in the morning [05:53] tritium: I left 14 bottles of beer in the department office this evening after our department party [05:53] I wonder if it will be there in the morning [05:53] heh [05:53] LaserJock: wow. Graduation party? === ajmitch needs beer [05:54] someone ship me a daily amd64 image please [05:54] tritium: no, the Chemistry Grad Student Association I (and a few others) started put on an end-of-semester party [05:54] it's only downloading at 15K/sec here [05:54] Oh, okay [05:54] ajmitch: ouch [05:54] LaserJock: tell me about it - I want to install on a server tomorrow [05:55] ajmitch: can you rsync it? [05:55] nothing to rsync from [05:55] unless I go from a recent server install image [05:55] :( [05:55] which I might do [05:55] that one is only a week old [05:55] auc is alwaysy very busy hese days. [05:55] and cdimage [05:56] yeah [05:56] flight 8 should be out soon [05:56] then RC [05:56] I wonder what June 1 will be like? [05:56] we're approaching final freezes [05:56] I though Flight 8 was canceled [05:56] *thought [05:56] LaserJock: well the .se mirror saturated its 2.5Gbps link on breezy release for several hours [05:56] I think if one wants to get the release early, to rsync from the most recent daily they have. === TheMuso will be doing that. [05:56] cancelled? === ajmitch hadn't heard that [05:57] maybe it is just for one of the *other* Ubuntus ;-) [05:58] hehe [05:58] I can't keep them straight anymore === chillywilly has no clue wtf is going on with Ubuntu :-/ === ajmitch rsyncs what he hopes is a server image [05:59] the sizes seem quite different [05:59] ah well === ajmitch might have only a partial download [06:00] chillywilly: release is SOOOOON [06:00] (Friday's a mandatory holiday for the distro team, so F8 is cancelled) [06:00] crimsun: interesting [06:00] hmm, are there any cdimage. mirrors? [06:00] sure, try se.archive ;-) [06:00] why is it a mandatory holiday? to ensure that they don't collapse in the last days before release? [06:00] ajmitch: from what I understand, yep [06:01] makes sense :) [06:01] yeah [06:01] wimps ;) [06:01] chillywilly: you try working for them & see if you last even 2 weeks :) [06:02] talking about Friday 27th? [06:02] jaldhar: tomorrow the 19th [06:02] ajmitch: piece of cake ;) [06:03] I bet this slacker guy names ajmitch that I know wouldn't make it ;) [06:03] named* === chillywilly ducks [06:03] *quack* === ajmitch looks at how many uploads chillywilly has to dapper [06:04] 0 [06:04] oops its thursday already. === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:06] hey jsgotangco [06:07] good afternoon [06:07] lunch brb [06:07] some people [06:07] they come to work & start lunch straight away [06:07] ;-) [06:08] heh [06:08] I wub you ajmitch [06:09] ajmitch: I do that but I eat while I'm working [06:10] that's not quite as bad :) [06:13] hmm, I wish I could get our sys admin to ditch SuSe 9 for Ubuntu, but the last time we had a reinstall lots of bad things happened === imbrandon_ [n=Brandon@CPE-72-135-8-5.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mkrufky is now known as mkrufky-Zzzz === dewd [n=dewd@201.29.133.121] has joined #ubuntu-motu === AnAnt [n=anant@81.10.9.182] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:06] I have 2 questions on REVU : [07:06] 1. how can I search the REVU site to see if a package is there ? [07:06] 2. I uploaded 2 packages yesterday, yet I didn't get any login yet [07:10] AnAnt: [1] Use your Web browser's in-place Find function [07:11] AnAnt: [2] Have you recovered your password yet? [07:12] crimsun: I tried, and it gave me an encrypted password [07:12] I decrypted it, and it was "None", so I tried to login with it [07:12] but it failed [07:12] AnAnt: you'll need to have a REVU admin look at it, then. [07:13] k [07:13] crimsun: can I download a package from REVU ? [07:14] AnAnt: most links are public [07:14] links ? [07:15] I don't see any links ! [07:15] AnAnt: when you click on a package, there are a set of links === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:15] some you won't be able to download, some you will [07:17] crimsun: can u see if there are elinks-0.11.1 & kchmviewer-2.5 packages there ? [07:19] not that I see [07:20] I don't see elinks. [07:20] Nor the other package you mentioned. [07:20] wierd [07:21] I uploaded them yesterday [07:25] because you uploaded binary packages, not source-only [07:26] both ! [07:26] I did -S -sa [07:26] binary packages were uploaded [07:26] you must upload the package_source.changes file, not the i386.changes [07:29] oh [07:29] btw, there isn't any source_changes [07:29] there will be if you build with -S -sa [07:29] doesn't dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa create that ? [07:30] you mean, also pbuild should be run with it ? [07:30] no [07:30] pbuilder doesn't need to be run like that [07:31] well, I don't get it [07:31] dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa creates the source.changes file which you need to upload with dput [07:31] oic [07:31] k [07:34] btw, I should upload sources-only or sources & binary ? [07:41] cool ! [07:41] but I still can't search packages ? [07:42] are the packages on that page the only packages uploaded to REVU or just the most recent packages uploaded ? === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:53] AnAnt: all packages [07:53] ic === highvoltage [n=Jono@mtngprs4.mtn.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-motu === AnAnt [n=anant@81.10.9.182] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:18] I try to run dpkg-buildpackage on some package, I got this error: /usr/bin/fakeroot: line 150: debian/rules: Permission denied [08:18] what's that ? [08:20] well, is debian/rules actually executable? [08:22] oh [08:22] nope [08:22] cool, I changed that, thanks === AnAnt [n=anant@81.10.9.182] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === AnAnt [n=anant@81.10.9.182] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === vud1 [n=vud1@unaffilitated/vud1] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jamessan_ [n=jamessan@c-24-218-220-129.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:32] I get this warning: Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be rejected by the upload queue management software. [09:32] that was for a package that I uploaded a previous version of it before [09:33] previous revision to be accurate === vud1 [n=vud1@unaffilitated/vud1] has left #ubuntu-motu ["chapo] [09:33] so, what should I do ? is there a way to create an upload file that doesn't upload .orig. tarball again ? [09:34] don't build with -sa? [09:35] ic [09:35] thx [09:35] thanks [09:35] ok, does that warning mean that my whole upload is rejected or only the .orig. tarball ? [09:36] it'll all be rejected [09:39] AnAnt: REVU always requires full source upload including the orig.tar.gz if non-native [09:40] crimsun: what is non-native means ? [09:40] AnAnt: non-native means the package was not created specifically for Debian or its derivatives [09:40] AnAnt: i.e., there's no orig.tar.gz [09:40] crimsun: so I upload the orig.tar.gz, even if I am uploading a new revision of a package that I uploaded yesterday ? === `6og [n=kgoetz@ppp202-110.lns1.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:40] AnAnt: yes, but /only/ for REVU [09:40] i see === kelmo [n=kelmo@madwifi/support/kelmo] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:42] sorry, what I said may read unclearly. A non-native source /will/ have an orig.tar.gz [09:43] for instance, the following is native: wxwidgets2.6_2.6.1.2ubuntu2.tar.gz [09:43] and the following is non-native: vlc_0.8.4.debian.orig.tar.gz [09:44] non-natives have diff.gzs === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B259A.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:48] good morning motu world [09:48] oic [09:48] crimsun: so if I am uploading a package that is not in the distro I got , the most probably it is non-native [09:49] 'morning daniel [09:49] crimsun: hey daniel [09:49] crimsun: let's say, wxwidgets2.8 is out for example [09:50] AnAnt: if it doesn't already exist in Debian or Ubuntu but does exist "upstream", then it will be non-native /unless/ you are the upstream author and are packaging it specifically for Debian or its derivatives [09:50] crimsun: and I don't see wxwidgets2.8 on the REVU, in that case it is non-native, and I should put the orig tarball, right ? [09:50] AnAnt: in general, yes, but wxwidgets is a pathological case. [09:50] ok [09:50] thanks [09:51] Hey dholbach. [09:51] AnAnt: we never use actual upstream wxwidgets tarballs because they're far too buggy. The Debian maintainer, Ron Lee, generates native Debian source for them. [09:52] heya TheMuso [09:52] bug 34992 [09:52] Malone bug 34992 in kdenetwork "Name with ampersand appears with underscore in menus" [Unknown,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/34992 === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:54] btw, when I make a package for elinks, I got this from linda: Package contains autoconf-generated files. [09:54] what's that ? [09:56] AnAnt: elinks is already in dapper - or there's some reason it cant be packaged... [09:56] You have files that are used for autoconf in your .diff.gz, which is generally not desired. === Hobbsee has an elinks deb, somewhere [09:56] no, wait...maybe that's links2 [09:56] Hobbsee: It is in universe,but my guess is that it is an older version. [09:57] Hobbsee: that's version 0.11.1 of elinks [09:57] Hobbsee: that's version 0.11.1 of elinks that I am packaging [09:57] there's something weird about those packages though - check the README [09:57] er...you're packaging the same one as is in the repos? [09:57] or am i missing something here? [09:57] TheMuso: what are those autoconf files ? how can I know them ? [09:57] oh, yes, i see...dont mind me... [09:58] Hobbsee: ok [09:58] this is post dapper, presumably... [09:58] AnAnt: lintian -i *.deb or lintian -i *.changes should tell [09:58] Hobbsee: also in the changelog you'll find that I compiled elinks with many features, ECMAScript other stuff [09:58] AnAnt: What I do is unpack the .orig.tar.gz by hand, and manually patch in the .diff.gz file and look at the filenames mentioned in the output. [09:58] AnAnt: fair enough [09:58] Anything with a .m4 extension, Makefile or config* is considered autoconf related. === Hobbsee just didnt want you to do a whole lot of work, then find "oh drat, it doesnt work" for whatever reason === Hobbsee thinks that's pretty pointless. [09:59] dholbach: Never knew that one. You learn something new every day. [09:59] Hobbsee: and it's version 0.11.1 , it has a feature that I missed in 0.10.6 [09:59] so i see :) [10:00] AnAnt: BTW are you building elinks with libsmjs1 as a dependancy? [10:00] i thought that you were saying that 0.11.1 was already there, so you were packaging it... [10:00] TheMuso: yes [10:00] and thought that was a little odd :P [10:00] Good. [10:00] TheMuso: for the ECMAScript [10:00] but I failed to enable perl , dunno why [10:00] Yeah. [10:03] TheMuso: I looked at the diff, it only added debian scripts ! [10:03] TheMuso: or to be accurate , it modified the debian scripts [10:03] AnAnt: Try what dholbach suggested. [10:04] k [10:05] lintian only printed a W: line, not E: line [10:05] oh hang on [10:06] the only E: lines I get from lintian *changes is about: elinks source: invalid-arch-string-in-source-relation [10:07] I don't see that this has to do with linda report about autoconf files [10:11] well, I don't think I can fix it === dolson_ [n=dana@d235-185-252.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === torkel hugs dholbach, siretart and slomo for the UVF approval of openafs [10:14] yo torkel :-) [10:14] hi dholbach :-) === herzi [n=herzi@d021205.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:17] btw, I got a question, [10:17] I got the deb files of VIM7 from debian experimental repos [10:17] tried to install it, but it turned not to work because it required some libc6 package that is in debian [10:18] so I got the source package, and made a ubuntu1 package from it [10:18] is that ok, or wrong ? unethical I mean [10:18] AnAnt: no, that's allowed :) [10:19] all of this is for edgy, though...unfortunately... [10:19] Hobbsee: ? [10:19] after dapper is released, aren't there something called updates ? [10:20] AnAnt: you cant get new features into dapper by now... [10:20] yes, to the development version... [10:20] you mean updates are not for stable version ? [10:20] june 1, dapper gets released as stable, and the only things it gets are security updates... [10:20] oh [10:20] ok [10:21] so I guess when edgy becomes beta, I will go for it too [10:21] AnAnt: 1) security fixes go into dapper-security; 2) critical "ohshi should've been fixed and prevents $app from starting" bugfixes go into dapper-updates; 3) newer versions are backported from edgy to dapper-backports [10:21] dapper beta is pretty stable (I started from beta2) [10:21] when edgy is opened, we'll be syncing from debian [10:21] so anything newer in debian will be imported [10:21] ok, so if I allow the backports repo, I will get them, that's cool [10:22] well [10:22] not everything gets backported === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:22] it's always done on a case-by-case basis === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:23] AnAnt: and that's where a double boot comes in - dapper and edgy...so then you can use one, and develop on the other... or just use the development version [10:24] and fall back on dapper, if you need it... [10:24] hi ajmitch, btw === jinty [n=jinty@212.Red-83-54-75.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:26] <`6og> hm. anyone here know about suns new java packages? they went into Debian a few days ago. i'm wondering if they are the ones that got pushed into ubuntu recently? [10:27] afaik, debian and ubuntu developers were working together with sun engineers, so i guess ubuntu will also get the rewards of that too [10:31] <`6og> kelmo: i ask because debian-devel and -legal lists have gone crazy about the licence. i was wondering if we(ubuntu) had looked at it [10:32] <`6og> i thinkm the package is sun-java5 *checks* [10:33] what is changelog-should-mention-nmu [10:34] it is the jdk [10:34] cool [10:35] AnAnt: when your name is not in Maintainer: or Uploaders: field of control file, and you have changed the package, it is a "NMU" [10:36] kelmo: oh, so I should add my name to Uploaders ? [10:36] usually when a NMU is done, the first changelog entry is s.th like "Non Maintainer Upload" [10:37] AnAnt: generally you can ignore that warning in Ubuntu universe/multiverse. === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:37] and the revision gets a dot point increment [10:38] k [10:39] ( i say usually, and speak without experience of ubuntu motu maintainership) [10:39] (hi Hobbsee) [10:43] can someone please take care of https://launchpad.net/bugs/35825 [10:43] Malone bug 35825 in gq "Does not appear in the menu" [Normal,Confirmed] [10:45] herzi: can this be solved with a sync from debian? === AnAnt [n=anant@81.10.9.182] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === AnAnt [n=anant@81.10.9.182] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:47] According to the bug, an update has been requested. [10:47] crimsun: how do I know wether my package is going into universe or multiverse ? [10:48] AnAnt: license, and it's set on the server. [10:49] AnAnt: you really should be aiming for universe unless you have a compelling non-DFSG-free reason for multiverse [10:49] crimsun: what server ? [10:49] AnAnt: properly "the archive" === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:49] (contains the overrides) [10:50] I don't understand [10:50] sorry, I'm fairly useless right now, been staring at alsa* for the past 27-odd hours === crimsun falls asleep === Hobbsee hands crimsun a cup of coffee === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ivoks [n=ivoks@wall2.grad.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-12-146-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === AnAnt [n=anant@81.10.9.182] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [11:22] Do we have an ubuntu-legal ? We have a package with a license that if I read correctly is unsuitable for Ubuntu. [11:24] as I read it, to comply with the license, we need to stop shipping python, perl, gcc et al [11:24] Yagisan: java? no we don't have a -legal [11:24] kgoetz: yeah, the sun-java package [11:25] Yagisan: I'm just in -devel asking. the reply is 'it's ok', but i'm a bit sus after reading Debian lists [11:25] kgoetz: I'm reading the license now, and it isn't any more free the the last one [11:25] Yagisan: i havent read it (that's Debian-legals job ;D), but i don't like the sound of it either === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Gervystar [n=gervysta@217-133-96-194.b2b.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu === erez [n=erez@85-250-189-237.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-motu [11:42] so... java will get in main now, or what? [11:42] sun? multiverse [11:42] ivoks: no multiverse, so its ours [11:42] Yagisan: ok [11:43] ivoks: and it still doesn't pass the DFSG enough for "non-free" or "multiverse" [11:44] heh [11:44] ivoks: a windows EULA is more free. It at least doesn't prohibit competing solutions [11:45] Yagisan: dfsg doesn't apply to non-free or multiverse, so that's fine. [11:45] non-free and multiverse just needs us to be able to redistribute it, nothing more. [11:46] Mithrandir: sorry. Having my stuff rejected on those grounds for multiverse, makes me inclined to disagree with you [11:46] Yagisan: oh, what was rejected? [11:46] Mithrandir: a game [11:46] with what licence? [11:46] Mithrandir: no big deal, but I don't see why sun is special [11:46] Mithrandir: non-commercial [11:46] Yagisan: it's sun :) [11:47] that's not a licence. That's a class of such [11:47] Yagisan: also, Sun and Ubuntu might have an agreement which is not public for all I know. [11:47] Mithrandir: Raven Non-Commercial License [11:47] Mithrandir: in effect a BSD + You can't sell this [11:48] Mithrandir: if Sun and Ubuntu have an agreement, it isn't displayed when you install the package [11:49] Yagisan: that doesn't decide whether it can be distributed or not. [11:49] Yagisan: I'm not able to find any licence caled "raven non-commercial license" [11:49] Mithrandir: I'll get you a link. just a Sec [11:54] Mithrandir: Raven License http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/Ravenlic.txt [11:55] sivang: i don't think so [11:56] Mithrandir: the sun license, while granting redistribution, is over broad and restricts distribution of alternatives in section 2c. Reading that means, we must remove perl, python, gcc et al [11:56] sivang: no, it can't. http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=gq [11:56] Yagisan: you follow Debian-legel or -devel? if not i'll dig up the threads on sun java [11:56] Yagisan: that licence doesn't allow redistribution, so it's not suitable even for non-free. [11:57] Yagisan: I disagree with your interpretation of 2c. [11:57] kgoetz: I get the DD digest periodically. Haven't read them yet [11:57] sivang: but it's basically removing the debian-specific patches (except one) and copying the debian directory into a 1.0.0 tree [11:58] the stuff on -legal and -devel is worth a read if you want to talk about this stuff. severalpeople who know thier stuff talking [11:59] herzi: care to email me with the details? I can try take care of it when I arrive home. [11:59] address? [11:59] herzi: sivan@ubuntu.com [11:59] herzi: please reference the bug report number on LP, thanks [11:59] i'll do [11:59] Mithrandir: no not under European law it doesn't. That is irrelevant however, as the code is being rewritten under a GPL license. [12:00] herzi: thanks again, sorry for too many request but I'm currently at work and I don't want this to get lost :) [12:00] Yagisan: there's no such thing as "european law". [12:00] that's fine === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:01] Yagisan: and that the licence doesn't allow redistribution means, well, that it can't be redistributed. At least in all jurisdictions I'm vaguely familiar with. [12:01] ehlo Hobbsee [12:01] Mithrandir: in general if it isn't explicitly permitted, it is forbidden in most European countries correct ? [12:01] hi Mithrandir [12:04] Mithrandir: whilst here, if it isn't explicitly forbidden, it is permitted until a court or parliament rules otherwise. [12:04] Yagisan: that's the so called "public law", iirc, yes. Which applies to public law countries. [12:04]