/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/05/25/#ubuntu-doc.txt

mdkeoh god12:30
mdkeAlexander Jacob Tsykin is at it again12:30
mdkesending emails with "true" as the only addition12:30
LaserJockhmm12:33
mdkeffs12:34
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mdkeanyone got IE on them?01:30
Burgundavia_mdke, in just a sec I will01:30
mdkecan you do me a screenie of http://help.ubuntu.com/wiki ?01:31
Burgundavia_yep, just a sec01:31
Burgundavia_ok, here is a good laugh01:31
Burgundavia_check out the editorial that says Sun should buy Canonical01:31
Burgundaviaugh, Windows01:32
Burgundaviaso bloody blue01:32
=== mdke pats
LaserJockhmm, I would think Canonical buying Sun would sound better01:33
Burgundaviaholy crap XP is unresponsive right after login01:33
LaserJockyep01:33
BurgundaviaMark is not rich enough01:33
Burgundavia"You need to update your flash player"!!!01:33
Burgundaviaoh joy of joys01:33
Burgundaviawhere the F*** do I have to go so I can get out of this bloody os?01:34
LaserJockreboot, Reboot, REBOOT!01:34
mdkeLaserJock loves it01:34
mdkehe *loves* the windows01:35
LaserJockhmm, my mac is telling me I need to reboot as well :(01:35
LaserJockyah know, sometimes I have to sit back and realize, XP really does suck01:35
mdkeyeah, man it really does01:36
LaserJockI get really spoiled running dapper01:36
Burgundaviamdke, sent01:36
Burgundaviafirefox takes 2 seconds to load01:36
mdkeLaserJock: if you wanna do one with safari too, go ahead01:36
Burgundaviaall i have running is IE01:37
LaserJockI have all kinds of software at the click of a button, it is fast, I can do anything I want, I don't think we are competing with Windows, I think we are blowing it out of the water01:37
BurgundaviaI have three different things telling me to update (flash, symantec and windows itself)01:37
Burgundaviawe just need a fast and easy office suite and we are in the bag01:37
mdkeanyone for opera?01:38
LaserJockno opera here, I'll get you a safari screenshot in a sec01:38
mdkeok, it looks good enough in IE for the purposes01:38
Burgundaviathe only thing I saw was the color band01:38
mdkeit looks pretty shit in dapper firefox, compared to epiphany, but then again, that's clearly not my fault01:38
Burgundaviamadpilot can do Opera when he comes01:39
mdkeBurgundavia: yeah, i think all the ubuntu websites have that problem on IE, don't they?01:39
Burgundavialikely01:39
Burgundaviahonestly, who gives a shit?01:39
mdkequite01:39
mdkevery well put, if I may say so01:39
Burgundaviathey work and don't break horrible01:39
mdkeyeah, ok so firefox and opera are the only ones to bother with really01:40
Burgundaviahave we had someone check with konq?01:40
mdkeoh yeah01:40
mdkeand I'll check with yelp 01:40
mdke;p01:40
mdkedamn, yelp doesn't do urls, sucks01:41
mdkeanyone got konq?01:41
Burgundaviayou might be able to launch it on the commandline with a url01:41
mdkeno, it just calls gnome-open01:41
mdke(ctrl L in yelp works)01:41
LaserJockmdke: http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/wiki_screenie.png01:43
LaserJockmdke: I've got konq, but I'm not sure how to get a screenshot in KDE01:44
mdkeprtsc?01:44
mdkethanks for safari, looks ok01:44
LaserJockprobably, just a sec01:44
mdkethe occasional pixel goes awry but who cares01:44
mdkeactually I'm quite tempted to try and import the pages, just for fun01:45
LaserJockmdke: http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/konq_screenie.png01:47
Rawhhmmm01:47
Rawhwiki with logins :)01:47
Burgundaviawhen did we pass 3k commits?01:48
mdkethis week01:49
mdkeor last01:49
mdkeanother translation marathon to come on sunday01:49
Burgundaviamay 10th01:50
=== Burgundavia truly wishes for a web frontend to our svn repo
Burgundaviait would make my life much easier01:51
BurgundaviaI could waste more time at work on Ubuntu01:52
LaserJockhehe01:52
mdkeso when you see Madpilot next, can you ask him where we are with the various book covers and admon icons and so on? 01:55
Burgundaviamdke, you are as likely to see him on irc as I am01:56
Burgundaviaemail me01:56
mdkewe can start getting that sorted soon, and if we're lucky everything will be ready for dapper, new website, new books, new wiki01:56
Burgundavias/me/him01:56
mdkeBurgundavia: no, I'm off to sleep :) I'll definitely email him in the next few days if I don't catch him01:56
mdkegood night you guys01:57
Burgundavianight01:58
LaserJockcya mdke 01:58
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mdkerobotgeek: here?02:48
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mdkehey Madpilot!03:30
Madpilothi mdke - long time no see03:31
mdkeyeah, how's the house?03:31
Madpilotthe new place is OK, fairly central for commuting and such03:32
mdkegood03:32
mdkeI'm terrified, I'm about to send this email about wiki licensing03:32
=== mdke crosses himself and presses the button
Madpilotasking everyone who's ever contributed to the wiki if they like the licensing idea?03:32
mdkeyeah03:33
=== mdke watches a list of names stream by
=== Madpilot waits for his copy ;)
Burgundaviamdke, you spammer you. I got this email from you about this wiki licensing business :)03:34
mdkegood news03:34
Burgundaviaare you trying to extort money from me? I won't have it!03:34
Madpilot:D03:35
mdkeBurgundavia: i also sell encyclopedias03:35
Burgundaviareally? I need a set of those03:35
mdkeand insurance03:35
Burgundaviagot any land in Florida? I need some. Islands are better, as I just bought this english bridge. It was a great bargain03:36
mdkeheh03:37
mdkebloody hell, it's still going03:39
mdkeah. done03:39
BurgundaviaI expect it to take about 20 minutes03:39
Burgundaviaor not03:39
mdkeshould have timed it03:39
Burgundaviaphp mailer takes longer, due to doing some mail merging as it sends03:39
mdkegod knows how my mail queue is03:40
mdkeit's probably all queued up03:40
Burgundaviahttp://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=19050 <-- look FUD03:40
=== mdke does a tail -f on his mail log
Madpilotmdke, I predict a lot of the messages will go straight to you, rather than to the CC email you mentioned...03:43
mdkeI've already got like a hundred bounces03:43
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mdkewell, 7503:45
mdkemeh04:13
mdketrying to help can be a thankless task sometimes04:13
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Madpilotmdke, you've got complaints about the licensing stuff already?04:23
mdkesome serious slapping around in -devel04:24
MadpilotWTF for?04:24
mdkeno, that's an exaggeration04:26
mdkebut they didn't like the idea that the email kinda says "if there is silence, we assume you consent"04:27
mdkelogically, I suppose they are right04:27
Madpilotbut practically, there's no other way to do it...04:27
mdkeyeah04:28
mdkeeither that, or start from scratch with no material04:28
mdkewhich would be a waste04:28
mdkeanyhow, changing the subject04:28
mdkeMadpilot: where are we on book covers?04:28
Madpilotwas wondering that myself04:28
Madpilotfirst of all, is the official name "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS" now, w/ the LTS added?04:29
mdkeyeah, Long Term Support04:29
MadpilotOK04:29
mdkewe had some nice covers from some art people04:30
MadpilotI'll update my cover SVGs accordingly - we've got one other candidate cover too04:30
mdkei can't find that other cover04:31
Madpilotjust looking for the author's name myself04:33
mdkehttp://klepas.org/temp/ubuntu/ubuntu-doc-cover-front.png ?04:34
Madpilotyes, that's the one. I've got an SVG version of it too.04:34
Madpilotonly problem with it is the "Dapper Drake" text - that'll need to go.04:35
Madpilotassuming it's chosen over my cover idea - I'll leave that up to the community04:35
mdkeMadpilot: where is yours again?04:36
Madpilothttp://www.warbard.ca/temp/ 04:36
mdkei don't think the community is going to have a decisive voice on this04:37
Madpilothttp://www.warbard.ca/temp/Ubuntu_Lulu_cover_draft_CQsize.png <-- Ubuntu DG cover04:38
Madpilotwell, not the community as a whole, but docteam and possibly artteam should have a say, I'd think04:39
mdkewe don't have much time really04:39
Madpilotyeah, I know04:40
=== mdke looks for the discussions
Madpilotrobotgeek was working on a little script to pull the translated titles out of the docs so we can have translated covers too04:40
=== mdke nods
mdkei tell you what I like about the klepas one, is how the white makes the ubuntu logo stand out04:41
Madpilotyes04:41
Madpilothttp://www.warbard.ca/temp/Ubuntu_Lulu_cover_draft2_CQsize.png <-- I added the white shape to this one04:42
mdkethat's a bit too harsh a contrast i think04:43
mdkealthough I have no feel for what it would look like on paper04:43
BurgundaviaMadpilot, that last one, ick04:43
BurgundaviaI still think the lots of logos looks busy04:43
Madpilotthat last one was a bit of a hack, just threw the white shape into the existing design04:44
mdketheir respective merits are opposites: the klepas one is subtle because of the colours, whereas the Madpilot ones are a bit more colourful04:44
=== mdke shrugs
MadpilotI like the bright orange, it's eye-catching ;)04:45
mdkeMadpilot: i think we should leave it to you to be official producer of book covers04:45
BurgundaviaI really like the klepas ones04:45
Burgundaviathey are bold and simple04:45
Madpilotall that Ubuntu palette info along the left side of klepas' cover - anyone know where he got that? I haven't seen anything like it on the wiki...04:47
Burgundaviait is around04:49
Burgundaviathe artworks pages have been under almost constant flux, so I have no idea where to findit04:49
mdkeMadpilot: the other thing was those admon icons, do you think you would know how to get them at a higher resolution? just to see what will happen04:50
Madpilothmm, I'd forgotten about them. I'll have a go this weekend04:50
mdkethat would be great04:50
mdkeI'm so damn busy atm04:50
robotgeekMadpilot: hmm, i had forgtotten about it :)04:51
Madpilotit's a long weekend here, so I've got time04:51
robotgeekmdke: how did you email?05:05
mdkerobotgeek: i'll paste it05:05
mdkehttp://pastebin.com/72762905:06
robotgeekoooh, nice. 05:06
robotgeeki hope you did not send 4500 to community-council :)05:07
mdkeno, I didn't send any to it05:07
robotgeekhmm, okay. 05:07
robotgeeki did not know about import csv05:08
mdkespiv did it for me05:08
robotgeekcool05:08
mdkeright, see ya05:08
Madpilotlater, mdke 05:08
robotgeekmdke: later05:09
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Madpilothttp://www.warbard.ca/temp/Ubuntu_Covers/Ubuntu_Lulu_cover_draft3_CQsize.png <-- changed layout and some colours - thoughts?06:04
mgalvinso i started working on the release notes on the wiki... i find these types on docs are easier on the wiki so the devs have easy access to it too...06:05
mgalvindo you guys think it should be moved into docbook when done?06:06
Laser_awayMadpilot: I got a timeout06:30
MadpilotLaser_away, on that image? try again, it should be working06:31
Laser_awayhmm, still a timeout06:32
Madpilotit works here, not that that helps... :P06:33
Madpilotjust a sec, I'll pastebin the thing06:34
Madpilothttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/1432606:37
MadpilotLaser_away, ^^^ pastebin06:38
Madpilotat a reduced size, for sanity06:38
Laser_awayMadpilot: I like it06:41
Madpilotgetting rid of the Human brown makes it much lighter06:41
Laser_awayhmm06:42
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BurgundaviaMadpilot, I like it. I would lighten up the logo even more and maybe have it half off the page, ala the back of the ubuntu cds07:23
MadpilotI'll mock that up in a moment07:24
MadpilotBurgundavia, did the warbard.ca URL work for you?07:24
Burgundaviayep07:25
Madpilotwonder why it wasn't working for Laser?07:25
Madpilotodd07:25
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=== mdke ughs
Madpilothmm?12:20
mdkehi Madpilot 12:21
mdkejust ughing at going to bed really late and feeling ughy in the morning12:21
mdkeyou were right at people replying to me about the licensing12:23
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Madpilotany really irrational replies, or is it mostly just confused people?12:24
mdkenot too bad actually12:26
mdkeonly about 10 replies, mostly favourable12:26
mdkeone has insisted that he can't licence his personal page as PD12:26
mdke;)12:26
Madpilot.... ?12:27
mdkedunno12:28
mdkeMadpilot: that cover looks nice12:31
Madpilotthanks12:31
MadpilotI've redone the Kubuntu cover too, but haven't cranked out a png yet - tomorrow12:32
mdkelovely.12:32
MadpilotI need sleep - talk to you all later12:34
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mdkehighvoltage: yo. We need to have a chat at some stage about how BetterWikiDocs might effect the edubuntu documentation on the wiki07:34
LaserJockmdke: I talked to ogra briefly about that07:36
mdkeLaserJock: aha07:36
mdkeLaserJock: I need to watch Dr Who right now, but let's talk about it later07:37
LaserJockmdke: we have a short list of docs that could go on the help. wiki07:37
LaserJockmdke: np, highvoltage is probably better to talk to anyway :-)07:37
mdkean option would be to do help.edubuntu.org like wiki.edubuntu.org07:37
mdkebbl07:37
Rawhlalalalala beer lalalalala07:42
tuxmaniacRawh: hmmm :)07:44
cbx33mdke, Laser_away I've been tasked with the wiki cleanup on the edubuntu side, would this affect me, ie is there anything ICan do to help?07:53
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Laser_awaycbx33: we just need to figure out what needs to get moved and what doesn;t08:23
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mdkeback08:27
mdkeLaser_away: so, you think you guys are keen to move too?08:28
mdkehey Madpilot 08:28
Madpilothi08:28
=== Rawh bounces around the room
mdkeMadpilot: you still use opera?08:30
Madpilotyes08:30
Madpilotwhat's up?08:31
mdkeMadpilot: can you make sure this theme looks alright: http://help.ubuntu.com/wiki08:31
Madpilotlooks fine08:32
mdkegood, thanks08:32
Madpilotthere's a small problem with the tab positions on the top right, but all the Ubuntu CSS seems to have that problem in Opera...08:32
mdkeoh08:32
mdkescreenie?08:33
Madpilotsure. one sec.08:33
cbx33mdke, do you have access to the edubuntu front page too?08:33
cbx33ie to that webserver?08:34
mdkecbx33: no. But anyway I'm not sure what page you're talking about08:34
mdkethe wiki?08:34
cbx33I just need someone with admin access that server08:34
cbx33I want to take a copy of the edubuntu css theme for drupal08:35
Madpilotmdke, http://www.warbard.ca/temp/help-ubuntu-in-Opera9.png08:35
cbx33I'm helping highvoltage fix it08:35
cbx33but he's not been around to give me a copy08:35
mdkecbx33: if you tell us what you're talking about, we can probably tell you who can help08:35
cbx33and we're supposed to have it done by the end of the weekend :p08:35
cbx33drupal www.edubuntu.org08:35
Madpilotmdke, notice that the 5.10 and 6.06 tabs are floating above the baseline...08:35
mdkeMadpilot: yuck08:35
Madpilotmdke, all the Ubuntu sites do that in Opera. I've asked around, and nobody is quite sure why.08:36
=== highvoltage arrives and scroll back to catch up
cbx33hehe sorry highvoltage 08:36
cbx33was just trying to get a head start on the css issue08:36
mdkeMadpilot: that's pretty serious08:36
highvoltagecbx33: ah, i meant to go to work today, but weather has been bad, so i'm going tomorrow morning08:37
mdkecbx33: yeah, highvoltage can help you08:37
highvoltagecbx33: +/- 10am i'll get that tarball for you :)08:37
highvoltagehey mdk and Laser_away 08:37
cbx33thanks highvoltage, no pressure08:37
mdkehiya08:37
Madpilotmdke, yes, but all the Firefox fanboys aren't too interested in fixing an Opera-only problem ;)08:37
cbx33just trying to fix it up08:37
mdkeMadpilot: ahh08:37
highvoltagecbx33: great08:37
mdkehighvoltage: we were talking about the wiki move. At the moment it is taking with it everything with CategoryDocumentation, i wanted to talk about edubuntu related documentation, are you happy with it going too, or not?08:39
mdkeMadpilot: well, if you find the answer, tell me and I'll push it into that theme, and bug henrik to fix everything else08:40
cbx33mdke, so this is everything taged with CategoryDocumentatino?08:40
cbx33mdke, I'm just in the middle of pulling together all LTSP related docs for ogra - UbuntuLTSP08:41
mdkecbx33: I kinda just said that08:41
Madpilotmdke, yeah, I've poked at it a bit before, but never gotten seriously into it. The wiki has so many CSS files in play it's hard to sort out what comes from where...08:41
cbx33cos they have been scattered everywhere08:41
mdkeMadpilot: the tabs are "sisternav" in screen.css08:41
highvoltagemdke: yes, i am happy with it going on, if i understand you correctly08:42
Madpilotmdke, ah, thanks. I'll have a look later this weekend.08:42
mdkehighvoltage: we could think about doing a help.edubuntu.org on the new wiki like with the current one, and a theme. Would you have any time for that? obviously broadly speaking the same theme would work 08:43
highvoltageshees, 1200 new emails since i last checked mail (Monday)08:43
highvoltagemdke: that's a great sugggestion. i'm surprised it hasn't come up before.08:43
highvoltagemdke: i can arrange the infrastucture for cbx33 08:44
highvoltagemdke: i'm sure he'd be willing to help out on that08:44
cbx33:D - sounds great08:44
mdkeinfrastructure?08:44
highvoltagemdke: as in... organise the subdomain in RT, get the theme there, etc. cbx33 can get the page content together and 'draw it up'08:45
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highvoltagemdke: understand?08:45
mdkeok. The wiki is up on palmer and we're going to have it at http://help.ubuntu.com/community08:45
mdkehelp.ubuntu.com being static material as now08:45
cbx33bbl guys08:46
cbx33highvoltage, talk me thorugh it when I return :p08:46
highvoltagecbx33: return from?08:46
mdkehighvoltage: so, we'll do some tests soon for migrating pages, the only thing is to make sure all the documentation is tagged with CategoryDocumentation08:47
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highvoltagemdke: ok, can you tag a wiki page with more than one category?08:48
highvoltage(sorry if that's an ignorant question)08:48
mdkeyes08:48
highvoltagei thought it might be good to tag a page as an edubuntu page08:48
mdkethe categories are just done by searching the raw text for a word08:48
highvoltagebut on the other hand, you can also find all edubuntu pages by doing a title search on "Edubuntu"08:48
mdkeso any page with CategoryDocumentation anywhere in the text appears on the CategoryDocumentation page08:48
highvoltageah, i see08:48
mdkeevem in commented text, i think08:49
mdkeeven*08:49
highvoltageman i wish i had proper internet access08:49
theCoreis it too late for submitting a cover art for the guides?08:50
mdketheCore: no, chat to Madpilot about it08:50
mdke-> dinner08:50
MadpilottheCore, give me a moment - real world interupt here...08:51
theCoreMadpilot: okay08:51
Rawh*blinks*08:52
Laser_awayMadpilot: I got a timeout on the opera screenshot, you sure you aren't blocking US IPs ;-)09:11
MadpilottheCore, OK, back. Have a look at this: http://www.warbard.ca/temp/Ubuntu_Covers/Ubuntu_Covers_draft1.png09:11
MadpilotLaser_away, AFAIK I'm not blocking anything09:11
theCorehttp://www.peadrop.com/images/pg-cover.png09:11
MadpilotLaser_away, can you get to any of my site at all?09:11
theCoreMadpilot: oh, we are making a bundle with all guides?09:12
MadpilottheCore, I know we're going to have all three Desktop Guides, the Packaging Guide, and I think the Server Guide at Lulu - not sure about other stuff (Edubuntu docs, for example)09:13
theCoreMadpilot: isn't "Linux for humans" slogan was removed from the branding?09:14
Rawhhmm, i doubt there's someone online who manages mirros ?09:14
Rawhmirrors even09:14
MadpilotRawh, ubuntu's mirrors?09:14
=== Rawh nods
Rawhthere's something fishy obout a file i just mirrored09:14
Rawhin the releases direcory there's a symlink called 'releases' which links back to the current dir09:15
Laser_awayMadpilot: nope, I get a timeout on http://www.warbard.ca/09:15
Rawhthats not usefull imho09:15
MadpilotLaser_away - merde. I'll open a ticket with my webspace supplier then...09:15
theCoreMadpilot: I can see it09:16
RawhMadpilot: same here, no problem with loading it09:16
Madpilotyou both in the states?09:16
Laser_away:/09:16
Rawhim in holland / the netherlands09:16
Madpilotand theCore is in Toronto, it looks like. Odd...09:17
theCoreMadpilot: nope, montreal09:17
Rawhhmm09:18
Rawhthis really isn't usefull :09:18
Rawhhttp://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/linux/ubuntu/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/09:18
theCorehehe09:18
Rawhi could go on and on09:18
Madpilotah, OK. Your IP says toronto, that's all...09:18
Rawhmy ip says that ?09:18
Madpilotno, theCore's does09:18
Rawhphew09:19
Rawhthis remembers me, i should use irssi on our webspace machine... but then again, noone found out yet :)09:19
MadpilotRawh, docteam doesn't have anything to do with the mirrors, really. Not sure which channel to suggest, though.09:20
Laser_awayRawh: you might be able to just file a bug and see what the archive admins say09:23
MadpilottheCore, about "Linux for Human Beings" - it's still at the top of the ubuntu.com main page, so I think it's still in use.09:23
theCoreMadpilot: well, it been removed from the logo 09:25
Rawhwell there's a new channel for it09:26
Rawhbut since i'm almost the only one in there... :)09:26
MadpilottheCore, you sure? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official still has the strapline versions listed, and Jane S. is pretty good at adding/removing material from the art pages09:29
=== mdke arrives back to see the madness
Madpilotmdke, in case you missed it: http://www.warbard.ca/temp/Ubuntu_Covers/Ubuntu_Covers_draft1.png09:42
mdkev nice09:43
mdkeyep, those would be perfect09:44
mdkewhat's the situation with changing the text?09:44
Madpilotno idea. We need to get robotgeek around - I seem to have deleted my copy of his little script09:45
mdkeoh, maybe you can spread the words out a bit09:45
mdkemove the logo up a lil bit, and the Docteam bit down09:45
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Madpilotmdke, know anything about use of the Human Beings logo/strapline? theCore mentioned that he thought it was being phased out, but I haven't heard anything09:54
mdkeMadpilot: no idea. I'd go with the artwork wiki pages09:55
mdkeoh hang on09:55
mdkeno, they certainly haven't abandoned "linux for human beings"09:56
Madpilotdidn't think so, myself.09:57
theCorewhat about this? https://launchpad.net/bounties/all-linux-for-humans09:58
Madpilotthat's a bounty that some user is offering, AFAIK, not Ubuntu/Canonical09:59
theCoreah, ok09:59
Madpilot"Registrant:  foolswisdom" - on the lefthand side10:00
mdkehow inappropriate is it to use a bounty for that discussion?10:00
mdkemuppets10:00
MadpilotI don't think any of the devs or sabdfl have even bothered to comment on it...10:02
MadpilotI don't think any of the "core" Ubuntu folks have bothered with that 'bounty', actually...10:04
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mdkebloody fop10:55
mdkethis morning, bookmarks were nice in the pdf files, now they don't work again10:55
mdkefop hateses me10:55
Madpilothttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14356 <-- front & back covers, slightly tweaked11:10
=== mdke hugs Madpilot
mdkebrilliant11:11
mdkeok, so now we need to sort out the admon icons, and I need to sort out a couple of minor problems, and we're ready11:11
Madpilotthe XFCE mouse looks like it's swimming on the back cover ;)11:11
MadpilotI'll have a bash at the admon icons in a bit - need lunch now11:12
mdkerock, I think i've figured out how to specify the appropriate size11:12
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Madpilotshould we put some copyright info on the back covers, or leave them blank? (I think lulu adds their URL & the ISBN, don't they?11:14
mdkeMadpilot: I think leave them blank11:14
mdkelulu can leave it blank too11:14
mdkethere is copyright stuff inside, after all11:14
Madpilotright11:15
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