[12:48] <mdke> hmm
[12:49] <mdke> banshee appears to be awesome
[12:49] <crimsun> I'm a quod libet/amarok user
[12:50] <crimsun> speaking of which, mozilla-thunderbird's import feature failed me utterly (didn't import a 77 MB mbox file that I've used for seven years with mutt)
[12:50] <crimsun> oh well, nothing that google and mv(1) didn't resolve
[12:51] <mdke> i haven't heard of quod libet
[12:51] <mdke> does it sync with an ipod?
[12:53] <crimsun> there may be a plugin for it. I'm not sure. (I don't own a portable music device.)
[12:54] <mdke> that's how I tried banshee... my brother asked what he could use for his ipod, and I kinda only knew gtkpod so I searched, and it appeared
[12:54] <crimsun> http://sacredchao.net/quodlibet/wiki/Plugins/iPod   uses libgpod, apparently.
[12:55] <mdke> ah nice
[12:57] <crimsun> you'll need a newer version of quodlibet than what's in the archives (I built it and mutagen from Debian Sid source)
[12:59] <mdke> i'm pretty happy with banshee I have to say
[12:59] <mdke> it seems to do everything right
[01:00] <Madpilot> I use Muine for music - it's nice and simple. Not drowning in options like Rhythymbox...
[01:02] <crimsun> mdke: doing everything right is ... well, right noble. If it works, it works.
[01:03] <Burgundavia> Laser_away, you forgot to tell the list you applied patch 7 from cbx33
[01:06] <mdke> crimsun: well, it's subjective. It does it right, for my taste
[01:08] <mdke> in terms of simplicity and making it obvious how to do stuff
[01:12] <crimsun> mdke: yep, that's what I'm saying. If it works for you, then use it. :-)
[01:14] <mdke> sorry, didn't quite follow you. Gotcha now
[01:18] <mhz> hi guys
[01:21] <crimsun> 'lo
[01:24] <Madpilot> hi
[01:25] <mhz> hmm, is that good?
[01:26] <mhz> mdke: is your wiki situation now 100% ok?
[01:26] <mdke> yes thanks
[01:27] <mhz> col
[01:27] <mhz> cool
[01:29] <mdke> erm
[01:29] <mdke> mhz: I sent you an email last week about the firefox homepage
[01:29] <mdke> it contained a detailed explanation of why chilean wouldn't work
[01:30] <mdke> but as far as i know, edubuntu isn't doing translated homepages anyhow
[01:31] <mhz> mdke: oh, sorry I missed it, I have changed HD (last one was not working ok) and I may have not read it
[01:31] <mhz> oh, i see. I'll aask ogra then
[01:31] <mdke> but chilean can't work anyway
[01:31] <mdke> there is no firefox localisation in that language
[01:32] <mdke> there is only -es and -ar
[01:32] <mhz> chilean = spanish = latinamerican =colombian =argentinian
[01:32] <mdke> well, there is an -ar translation of the firefox homepage already (for ubuntu)
[01:32] <mdke> does it show up for you?
[01:32] <mhz> yup, and it loads english
[01:32] <mhz> :)
[01:33] <mdke> sorry?
[01:33] <mhz> file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/locales/index-es_AR.html
[01:33] <mhz> it is all english text
[01:33] <mhz> hence we translated it
[01:34] <mdke> in edubuntu it is a link to index.html
[01:34] <mdke> in Ubuntu it is translated, I hope
[01:35] <mdke> maybe if ogra includes it in edubuntu-artwork, it will work, I'm not sure
[01:36] <mhz> yeah, I'll wait til I can talk to him about it
[01:36] <mdke> lemme check the package
[01:43] <mdke> yeah i reckon it will work
[01:45] <mhz> okis, then, it is just a matter of ogra including it?
[01:52] <mdke> yes, I think so
[01:52] <mdke> he can replace the link with your file
[01:52] <mdke> probably
[02:05] <mgalvin> mdke: i have been doing the release notes on the wiki for now, just so you know
[02:05] <mgalvin> easier for the devs to tweak it there anyway
[02:06] <mdke> mgalvin: ok. I think we can bin the idea of translating them, unless they're ready really soon... 
[02:06] <mdke> what do you think?
[02:06] <mdke> we should remove them from the help website if so, because the aim is to allow that website to be fully translated. No major thing because the releasenotes are really more suited to the proper website
[02:07] <Burgundavia> mdke, desktop guide doesn't appear to render in breezy's evince
[02:08] <mdke> Burgundavia: yeah. you'll need acroread
[02:08] <Burgundavia> urghh
[02:08] <Burgundavia> what about dapper?
[02:08] <mdke> no, broken there too
[02:08] <mgalvin> mdke: well, i would like to see it translated, but its not a *critical* thing per say imho...
[02:08] <mdke> i'd agree mgalvin 
[02:08] <mgalvin> i am just trying to find the time to get it done within a reasonable time :-/
[02:08] <Burgundavia> mdke, is that a bug we can fix?
[02:09] <mdke> Burgundavia: I filed a bug, and there is potentially a patch, but I can't test it because I don't know how to patch evince/poppler/whatever
[02:09] <mdke> Burgundavia: if I give you the link, feel free to poke a few people
[02:10] <mdke> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6728
[02:10] <mdke> seems it might be related to freedesktop #4030
[02:11] <Burgundavia> that would be poppler
[02:12] <mdke> maybe poke dholbach and ask if we use that patch already
[02:12] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:15] <mdke> Burgundavia: you use banshee right?
[02:21] <mdke> I've got it sorting by artist, and the silly thing doesn't sort within each artist by album/track number too. Any idea how to make it do that?
[02:24] <Burgundavia> mdke, nope. muine
[02:24] <mdke> ok
[02:26] <Burgundavia> you know, I sure my pdfs don't open with totem :)
[02:27] <mdke> hmm?
[02:27] <Burgundavia> your latest email
[02:27] <Burgundavia> read it again
[02:27] <mdke> oh ffs
[02:27] <mdke> whatever
[02:27] <mdke> :)
[02:31] <Madpilot> totem, evince, acroread, whatever... ;)
[03:06] <Burgundavia_> Madpilot, you around? (sorry, playing with myconnection )
[03:06] <Madpilot> yes
[03:07] <Burgundavia_> can you try and ssh to  	 24.69.71.211
[03:07] <Madpilot> The authenticity of host '24.69.71.211 (24.69.71.211)' can't be established.
[03:08] <Madpilot> looks like I'm connected to something...
[03:08] <mdke> that means it works yeah
[03:08] <Burgundavia_> ok, that is good
[03:08] <Burgundavia_> hmm, I cannot seem to test it internally
[03:08] <Madpilot> trying to set up your desktop w/ SSH?
[03:08] <Burgundavia_> no, my router
[03:09] <Burgundavia_> I already have an ssh server running
[03:09] <Madpilot> looks like it works
[03:09] <Burgundavia_> cool
[03:09] <Burgundavia_> wierd that it doesn't let me test the port forwarding internally
[03:11] <Burgundavia_> you know, Windows does really bad things to peoples computers
[03:11] <Burgundavia_> the number of people I have met/talked to that cannot run any messaging software on their machines because they are too slow is insane
[04:30] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i might have it arounf, not sure
[04:51] <Laser_away> Burgundavia_: darn it, yeah. I was going to do it but I had to leave the house and forgot :/
[05:19] <Madpilot> hi all
[07:14] <Madpilot> busy place here... ;)
[09:12] <Burgundavia_> Laser_away, np
[01:54] <cbx33> afternoon all
[01:54] <cbx33> need some advice about screenshots
[01:54] <cbx33> I'm wanting to add some small screen shots to a document I'm working on in docbook format
[01:55] <cbx33> They only need to be small - I'm using the TakingScreenshots wiki page to help...
[01:55] <cbx33> once taken should I manually resize them smaller?
[01:55] <cbx33> Still new to the images in docbook thing
[02:17] <mdke> cbx33: we are also quite inexperienced with them: we don't use screenshots in documentation really
[02:17] <mdke> but i would have thought you can specify the size when taking them
[02:18] <cbx33> ok
[02:18] <cbx33> it's only due to the nature of the doc really :p
[02:19] <mdke> yeah
[03:52] <tuxmaniac> rtel.in
[03:52] <tuxmaniac> sorry typo
[05:40] <glatzor> hi jsgotangco
[05:40] <jsgotangco> glatzor: hi
[05:40] <jsgotangco> (im about to sleep though)
[05:40] <glatzor> today I did some serious work on my bike accident per week ration. so I cannot finish the updated manual for update-manager and software-properties
[05:41] <glatzor> ratio
[05:41] <jsgotangco> its ok unforutnately i'll be pretty busy in the next few days and im not really confident on getting it done either
[05:42] <glatzor> jsgotangco: good night!
[05:42] <glatzor> jsgotangco: isn't it lunch time in asia?
[05:43] <jsgotangco> glatzor: no its almost midnight here haha
[05:43] <jsgotangco> UTC +8
[05:43] <glatzor> jsgotangco: right, the earth rotates in the other direction :)
[05:43] <jsgotangco> glatzor: we could probably do an update if we're allowed
[05:43] <glatzor> jsgotangco: perhaps i find some time tomorrow.
[05:44] <glatzor> i think that it's a quite important issue.
[05:44] <glatzor> but I cannot concentrate very well at the moment
[05:44] <jsgotangco> i'll see what i can do tomorrow morning perhaps its not that big an update for us either
[05:44] <jsgotangco> i just haven't read the existing one thoroughly
[05:44] <glatzor> the whole software-properties part needs a rewrite
[05:45] <glatzor> I send you a diff of my work
[05:45] <jsgotangco> hmm the help points to u-m too
[05:45] <jsgotangco> but in the software properties section
[05:46] <glatzor> i already updated the update-manager part
[05:46] <mdke> glatzor: btw, is it known that update-manager has a different gksu dialogue if you start it from the menu rather than clicking on the notification icon?
[05:46] <mdke> it says /usr/bin/update-manager rather than update-manager
[05:47] <jsgotangco> really/
[05:47] <glatzor> the difference should be a minor one.
[05:47] <glatzor> I changed the gksu calls in update-notifier to use the --desktop option of gksu
[05:48] <glatzor> to avoid this ugly pathes in the dialog
[05:48] <mdke> so, is it known or should I file a bug?
[05:48] <glatzor> mdke: it is actually a feature and not a bug :)
[05:49] <mdke> it's a feature that it uses /usr/bin?
[05:49] <mdke> that's a pretty bad feature
[05:49] <mdke> it's much nicer without the absolute path
[05:49] <glatzor> mdke: it used /usr/bin/bla for years :)
[05:49] <glatzor> mdke: I know that is why I polished the gksu dialogs.
[05:49] <glatzor> mdke: furthermore there is already a bug about this.
[05:50] <mdke> glatzor: right, so is it known that in one case, it still uses the absolute paths?
[05:50] <glatzor> one moment
[05:51] <glatzor> mdke: the gksu calls are hard coded in the exec lines of the corresponding desktop file that is used by gnome-panel in the menu
[05:51] <glatzor> e.g. "Exec=gksu /usr/bin/synaptic"
[05:51] <mdke> ah, so --desktop needs to be added to that?
[05:52] <glatzor> So we have to change the desktop file of each application and add the desktop option.
[05:52] <glatzor> yes.
[05:52] <mdke> ok, and you have a bug about it already?
[05:52] <glatzor> a second approach could be to make use of the KDESetUid option, that is included in every administrative application's desktop file
[05:53] <jsgotangco> yuck
[05:53] <glatzor> gnome-panel could be patched to automatically call the gksu wrapper for administrative applications
[05:53] <glatzor> so we would only need "Exec=synatpic" and "KDESetUID=True"
[05:54] <jsgotangco> hey at least you got a good lesson :)
[05:54] <glatzor> mdke: one moment...
[05:55] <glatzor> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gksu/+bug/43076
[05:56] <glatzor> mdke: but currently it''s a gksu bug. it should be rather a bug for all admin apps or a wishlist item for gnome-panel
[05:56] <glatzor> but that is a design issue
[05:57] <glatzor> I think that he will hate me for this, but perhaps you should nag mvo about this.
[05:58] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:01] <glatzor> mdke: I attached a list of all apps using gksu in their desktop files.
[06:25] <mdke> glatzor: cool, thanks for the info
[06:25] <glatzor> mdke: you are welcome
[06:29] <glatzor> jsgotangco: I will do the manual now as far as I can.
[06:47] <glatzor> mdke: by the way do you know how to make a cross file reference in a docbook manual?
[07:11] <mdke> glatzor: in the same manual?
[07:11] <mdke> glatzor: you can use <xref linkend="id-of-target-section"/>
[07:12] <glatzor> mdke: no, to another file
[07:17] <mdke> glatzor: what sort of file?
[07:17] <mdke> another gnome manual?
[07:19] <glatzor> right, i would like to patch the synaptic manual and replace the preference dialog section by a link to the software-properties manual
[07:19] <mdke> ah ok
[07:19] <mdke> yeah, there is a way to do that
[07:19] <glatzor> we use the software-properties dialogs instead of the synaptic ones in Ubuntu
[07:20] <glatzor> mdke: but I don't know if this is an issue for dapper 
[07:20] <mdke> it has something to do with a "ghelp" link, but we don't use those, so I'm not sure how it works
[07:20] <mdke> grep another manual for "ghelp"?
[07:20] <glatzor> good idea. i will investigate this.
[07:21] <glatzor> http://www.mailarchives.org/list/gnome-doc-list/msg/2002/00250
[07:22] <glatzor> <ulink href="ghelp://gedit">gedit manual</ulink>
[07:22] <glatzor> thanks mdke
[07:22] <mdke> ok!
[07:29] <glatzor> hm. but the xubuntu and kde people will perhaps hate me for this :)
[07:30] <mdke> glatzor: yeah, that will only work in yelp
[07:48] <glatzor> mdke: do you know of another tool except pngcrush to do batch compression of png files? using pngcrush I get a libpng link time error here.
[07:48] <mdke> glatzor: yeah me too, it's a bug in pngcrush i think. I don't know anything else, sorry
[07:49] <glatzor> hm. ok. that's a pity 
[07:51] <mdke> but someone else might
[07:51] <mdke> I know nothing about images
[07:55] <glatzor> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/graphics/pngcrush
[07:55] <glatzor> mdke: debian testing contains a working version
[07:56] <glatzor> and saved additional 4 mbyte on the installation cdrom :)
[07:59] <mdke> glatzor: maybe you can fix it in dapper too :)
[08:01] <glatzor> mdke: if you approve my motu membership and ufv exception before tomorrow :)
[08:05] <glatzor> perhaps we should integrate pncrush in dh_scrollkeeper
[08:13] <mdke> glatzor: well, if you have a patch, maybe someone else can upload it
[08:13] <glatzor> mdke: no sorry, i only recompiled the debian package
[08:14] <glatzor> but since the current dapper version cannot even be built an uvf exception would make sense.
[08:14] <mdke> yeah 
[08:19] <glatzor> mdke: do you know anyone who we could entrust with this issue?
[08:21] <mdke> glatzor: rent-an-MOTU
[08:21] <mdke> Laser_away!
[08:59] <mdke> glatzor: another quite annoying bug is the whole screen flashing after the gksu dialogue is finished - is the screen darkening going to be disactivated before release, or is there a fix for this somewhere?
[09:01] <glatzor> mdke: personally i would like to not see the darkening at all in dapper. But perhaps it is already to late.
[09:01] <mdke> we can't release with that, it's really unprofessional
[09:01] <glatzor> i am on a quite oldish hardware and the darkening doesn't perform very well.
[09:02] <glatzor> mdke: furthermore i am no core dev :)
[09:06] <mdke> it's bug #5970
[09:12] <glatzor> whoa, a bug id with four digits
[09:55] <mdke> mgalvin: i see that the release notes appear in update-manager when dist-upgrading, are these the same as the ones you are working on?
[10:10] <Laser_away> mdke: what!
[10:11] <glatzor> mdke: AFAIK mvo creates the tarball that contains the upgrade tool and the release notes manually
[10:11] <glatzor> Laser_away: you are the man :)
[10:13] <Laser_away> glatzor: I am?
[10:14] <Laser_away> glatzor: pngcrush needs a UVFe?
[10:14] <glatzor> pngcrush needs a uvf exception urgently.
[10:14] <glatzor> yes.
[10:15] <glatzor> Laser_away: could you still do this in the dapper time frame?
[10:16] <Laser_away> glatzor: perhaps, it is getting pretty late
[10:17] <Laser_away> but I see it has a new release in Debian that has many bug fixes
[10:17] <glatzor> Laser_away: but nothing could be damaged and pngcrush is really a great tool to save space in the documentation
[10:18] <glatzor> Laser_away: I recently reduced the size of the update-manager documentation from 5mb to 700kb using pngcrush.
[10:18] <mgalvin> mdke: it does not seem to be the notes i am working on... i guess i should talk to mvo and dholbach about it (they may not be aware of our notes)
[10:19] <Laser_away> glatzor: let me see what I can do. I'll make sure it builds on dapper and then file a UVFe
[10:19] <Burgundavia> mdke, you were a busy person
[10:19] <glatzor> Laser_away: I can confirm that it builds on powerpc dapper
[10:19] <Laser_away> glatzor: what is the current shape of pngcrush on dapper? it works, just not very well? or is is completely broken?
[10:19] <glatzor> Laser_away: thanks a lot.
[10:20] <glatzor> completely broken. you cannot even build from source
[10:20] <Laser_away> glatzor: ok
[10:20] <glatzor> the current binary segfaults on every use
[10:21] <Burgundavia> mdke, ESA is not showing up on the sidebar at doc.ubuntu
[10:22] <mdke> Burgundavia: did you add it?
[10:22] <Burgundavia> mdke, nope. Why would I take the pleasure away from you :)
[10:23] <mdke> because you don't want me to miss out on my ironing
[10:23] <Burgundavia> but never is the question asked: Is it extreme ironing?
[10:24] <glatzor> night all
[11:22] <mdke> Burgundavia: the relevant file is in trunk/teamstuff/doc.ubuntu.com, just add the right link
[11:25] <Burgundavia> will do
[11:29] <Burgundavia> mdke, how often does the web side build again?
[11:29] <mdke> twice a day
[11:29] <mdke> you didn't change the link text
[11:29] <Burgundavia> ah, oops
[11:30] <mdke> link's wrong too
[11:30] <mdke> >_<
[11:30] <Burgundavia> bugger
[11:31] <mdke> the doc is entitled "Release Notes" too
[11:31] <Burgundavia> which doc?
[11:31] <Burgundavia> the link?
[11:32] <mdke> the Edubuntu School Advocacy doc
[11:32] <Burgundavia> oh, I see that
[11:32] <Burgundavia> I refuse to accept responsibility for that
[11:32] <Burgundavia> but I will fix it
[11:32] <mdke> :)
[11:32] <mdke> yeah, Jordan must have used the releasenotes as a template
[11:34] <Burgundavia> salut Madpilot 
[11:34] <Madpilot> hi
[11:35] <Burgundavia> wow, that BenM has done some amazing work with performance
[11:35] <Burgundavia> mdke, how do I get pdf building, on ESA
[11:36] <Burgundavia> ?
[11:44] <mdke> Burgundavia: see libs/pdf
[11:44] <mdke> branches/dapper/libs/pdf
[11:44] <mdke> it's quite difficult though
[11:45] <Burgundavia> ugh
[11:48] <mdke> i spoke to pete about it, he said he had some plans for making pdfs by inserting the material into scribus or something
[11:48] <mdke> it sounded a bit painful
[11:48] <Burgundavia> ouch
[11:49] <mdke> i think fop is likely to be a better idea
[11:50] <mdke> depending on how much bling you're looking for
[11:50] <Burgundavia> it depends
[11:50] <Burgundavia> I am not a toolchain guru