[12:09] <lifeless> morning all
[12:10] <phanatic> morning lifeless 
[01:02] <infinity> mdz: FWIW, the "Attempting to resume..." option may be the only one that really makes sense, since once we echo to /sys/power/resume, it's out of our hands.  The kernel takes it from there.
[01:02] <mdz> infinity: yes, that's what I realized after the fact
[01:02] <infinity> mdz: Without us duplicating the kernel's internal heuristics to guess if the image is a resume image (ick), we're stuck.
[01:02] <mdz> infinity: we already do that with file(1), we just don't have that capability in initramfs yet
[01:02] <mdz> it's an edgy problem now
[01:03] <infinity> Oh, and your previous question ("why is it in local instead of init?") is easily answered with "because your resume partition could require evms/lvm/md/udev to find it"
[01:03] <infinity> I must have been half asleep the last time you asked.
[01:08] <infinity> mdz: Hrm.  Can we get an Ubuntu-6.10 milestone in Malone, so we can defer targetted bugs insted of removing the target altogether?
[01:09] <infinity> mdz: If we don't want to commit on a version, Ubuntu-edgy would be fine by me too. :)
[01:09] <mdz> infinity: unfortunately not; I asked about this
[01:09] <mdz> apparently we need to create edgy first
[01:09] <infinity> mdz: Oh.
[01:09] <infinity> mdz: Well, it's created in dogfood.  I wonder how wrong it would be to set it up in production, but disable uploads to it... <smirk>
[01:12] <crimsun> hah, bug #45922
[01:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45922 in base-files "Wrong (different) dist name after tty logout" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45922
[01:12] <infinity> Actually, I was curious about that.  I thought the name was meant to be "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS" (note the whitespace), not "Ubuntu 6.06LTS"
[01:13] <infinity> The latter feels altogether unparsable to me.
[01:13] <infinity> mdz: ^^^
[01:14] <infinity> Shipit and a variety of other random sources agree with me.
[01:14] <mdke> yeah, how is that not a bug?
[01:14] <infinity> mdke: The complaint "OMG, the distro name changed" isn't a bug.
[01:14] <infinity> But the whitespace might be.
[01:14] <mdke> right, the lack of a space
[01:16] <mdz> infinity: you're right, please fix
[01:16] <infinity> Fixing.
[01:16] <mdz> why is xchat trying to convince me there are two 'infinity's to tab-complete?
[01:16] <infinity> One in /msg?
[01:16] <mdz> I do inf<tab> and get "infinity infinity"
[01:16] <infinity> Or maybe I'm multiplying.
[01:17] <mdke> one infinity is more than enough
[01:17] <infinity> I'm cool with that.  One of me could go nap.
[01:17] <mdke> >_<
[01:17] <mdz> you're in its user list only once. weird.
[01:17] <infinity> mdz: I suspect we still want DISTRIB_RELEASE to be "6.06LTS", to avoid breaking people's assumptions about what lsb_release will spit out?
[01:18] <mdz> infinity: check LSB to confirm
[01:18] <mdz> but I think it shouldn't contain whitespace
[01:21] <infinity> It doesn't actually specify, but my definition of "version number" doesn't involve spaces, so I'll leave it out there.
[01:32] <Burgundavia> mdz, nice work on the TimeBasedRelease page
[01:32] <mdz> Burgundavia: just mailed -doc asking for review
[01:35] <Burgundavia> mdz, mind if I add an intro?
[01:35] <mdz> Burgundavia: not at all
[01:39] <Burgundavia> mdz, I posted the link in the dapper forum at ubuntuforums.org
[01:46] <mdz> Burgundavia: url?
[01:48] <mdz> I'm wondering whether to expand FeatureSpecifications or write FeatureDevelopment
[01:51] <mdz> Burgundavia: you're holding a lock on TimeBasedReleases, but it timed out
[01:51] <mdz> Burgundavia: are you still editing?
[01:51] <mdz> Burgundavia: if so, please change the FeatureDevelopment link to FeatureSpecifications, and I'll just expand that instead
[01:51] <mdke> mdz: just steal it from him if it's timed out
[01:52] <infinity> mdz: Any issues with a 6-line patch to gawk to avoid infinite loops when manipulating UTF8 strings?
[01:52] <infinity> mdz: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/20_eval.c-utf-8-strcat.dpatch
[01:52] <infinity> mdz: (elmo's applied it in Debian, seems to DTRT)
[01:53] <mdz> infinity: how long ago in Debian?
[01:53] <mdz> how did you notice it?  is it triggered in Ubuntu somewhere?
[01:54] <infinity> mdz: First revision of the patch in March, that revision on April 18.
[01:54] <mdz> my gut reaction is dapper-updates
[01:54] <infinity> mdz: We have a bug open about it, cause it can cause an FTBFS (though not in our environment, since none of our buildds run in UTF8 locales)
[01:54] <infinity> So, it's important, but not really.  Ish. :)
[01:54] <mdz> infinity: has it been running on the Debian buildds since the 18th? or when?
[01:55] <infinity> buildds don't typicall have gawk installed at all, unless something build-deps on it.
[01:55] <infinity> (Which some things do, admittedly)
[01:55] <infinity> Anyhow, the FTBFS bug was not a buildd-triggered bug, but joeyh doing a by-hand build.
[01:56] <infinity> Hence the UTF-8 locale and the gawk instead of mawk, I assume.
[01:57] <infinity> mdz: If it was sometihng that actually triggered repeatedly on the buildds (and this fixed it), I probably wouldn't even bother asking about fixing it.  It's the grey area (it's a bug, but we don't trip on it directly) that led to me poking you. :)
[02:20] <mdke> mdz: I did some formatting changes on that TBR page, check if you like them, feel free to revert if not
[02:22] <jsgotangco> feh and i was just looking at it too
[02:24] <mdke> jsgotangco: the wiki tells you when someone else is editing, so you don't get conflicts
[02:25] <jsgotangco> i just looked, that's all :P
[02:25] <Riddell> mdke: thanks, I'll look at that tomorrow
[02:25] <mdke> Riddell: cool, i tested the package and it seems alright
[02:25] <mdke> jsgotangco: ah, misunderstood
[02:26] <mdz> mdke: much better, thanks
[02:26] <mdz> and good night
[02:26] <mdke> night
[02:26] <Burgundavia> mdke, looks good
[02:28] <rpedro> hi, are there any known bugs with the fglrx binary drivers since the latest dapper updates? Xorg's log says it can't find the fglrx module, so I had to revert back to the ati drivers...
[02:29] <infinity> rpedro: Have you rebooted?
[02:30] <infinity> rpedro: (This isn't a support channel, but I can tell you that if you have the latest fglrx installed and all the latest kernel/lrm updates, it should work fine.. I'm using it here right now)
[02:30] <rpedro> yes, this happened preciselly after rebooting after the updates, right before that I was trying to configure Xgl and rebooted a few times. the fglrx driver was working ok...
[02:31] <rpedro> infinity: ok then I guess I'll try to find out what's wrong with my pc
[02:32] <rpedro> infinity: just asked here cause I thought maybe because the kernel got updated the kernel modules might have some problem,
[02:32] <infinity> rpedro: Perhaps we should take this to /msg
[02:50] <jdub> did something break with LANGUAGE fallbacks?
[02:50] <jdub> mine is currently en_AU:en
[02:50] <jdub> i thought we did en_AU:en_GB:en?
[02:54] <tseng> thom: if i use lighttpd/fcgi behind the proxy it seems alot more responsive than mongrel, btw
[03:54] <hendry> Mithrandir: ping
[03:55] <hendry> aigarius: howdy
[03:55] <aigarius> hendry, hey!
[03:56] <hendry> aigarius: still in mexico?
[03:56] <aigarius> hendry, yep. leaving tomorrow.
[04:04] <hendry> freeflying|away: heh
[04:05] <hendry> aigarius: was reading planetdebian. wish there was more lowdown on that dude that was asked to leave. i want more scandal.
[04:06] <freeflying|away> hendry: hi
[04:06] <aigarius> hendry, don't. note that the debconf6 blog directs people to read additional emails in debian-private
[04:06] <aigarius> hendry, you do have access to that, right?
[04:07] <hendry> aigarius: no, i don't. I am now a DD
[04:08] <aigarius> hendry, you mean that you are *not* a DD
[04:08] <zul> hmm?
[04:08] <hendry> aigarius: no, i don't. I am noT a DD
[04:08] <hendry> aigarius: sorry :)
[04:08] <hendry> freeflying|away: my hangul key (MS Natural keyb) doesn't work with Skim. Any ideas?
[04:09] <freeflying|away> hendry: sorry, no clues 
[04:10] <aigarius> hendry, I am still considering what I will put in my blog entry for that day. I can put in things that I know myself, but not what has been posted to debian-private. Also some people asked me not to mention the thing at all so not to stir any additional commotion.
[04:10] <hendry> freeflying|away: I think Mithrandir was working on this, but we're in different timezones
[04:11] <hendry> aigarius: oh well. i guess they are right, that they don't want the Debian name dragged in the mud.
[04:11] <freeflying|away> hendry: maybe in night, you can meet him
[04:12] <mjg59> Can we avoid discussing this here, please?
[04:25] <Chipzz> hendry: several other people on planet debian commented on the incident
[05:18] <hendry> is there some reason "libapache2-mod-fastcgi" is not in dapper?
[06:14] <fabbione> morning
[06:20] <ajmitch> hi fabbione 
[06:20] <fabbione> hi aj
[06:34] <jcole_home> TomB| TomB_: ping
[06:34] <TomB_> hi?
[06:56] <pitti> Good morning
[06:58] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[06:58] <pitti> hey ajmitch 
[07:01] <jcole_home> anyone try this with ubuntu? i just made a debian install mini.iso and installed... pretty cool :) --> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/PartmanCrypto
[07:12] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) hendry: yes?
[07:14] <hendry> Mithrandir: I have Kubuntu dapper machine here. And the Hangul key doesn't work with skim.
[07:14] <hendry> Mithrandir: it's a MS Natural Keyb
[07:15] <Mithrandir> does xev pick it up?
[07:17] <hendry> Mithrandir: ah, that's it. xev.
[07:17] <hendry> Mithrandir: keycode is 209
[07:17] <hendry> Mithrandir: other key is 210
[07:17] <hendry> Mithrandir: perhaps skim is at fault
[07:17] <Mithrandir> that's right, iirc.
[07:17] <Mithrandir> what's the output of setxkbmap -print?
[07:21] <mantas_> Hello all
[07:25] <mantas_> I've noticed, that ubuntu gnome language-packs are 10 days old and there are lots of updated translations since then. Maybe someone could run Ubuntu automatic language pack builder today ?
[07:33] <LaserJock> ack, what is the URL for seeds?
[07:44] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds
[07:44] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: ah, thanks
[08:00] <lifeless> infinity: hi. you popped out just before I expanded. If you are interested I can clarify further. If not, thats fine too.
[08:15] <sivang> morning all
[08:15] <Burgundavia> salut sivang 
[08:15] <sivang> salut Burgundavia :)
[08:35] <pitti> ogra: ping
[08:40] <dholbach> good morning
[08:40] <pitti> hey hey dholbach 
[08:41] <dholbach> hey pitti!
[08:42] <sivang> hey pitti , dholbach , ogra 
[08:42] <pitti> hi
[08:42] <dholbach> hi sivang
[08:43] <pitti> infinity: oh, this m-t-locale-ru bug isn't halfway as bad as I thought
[08:43] <pitti> infinity: we already have transitional packages for all previous main packages
[08:43] <pitti> infinity: and the remaining ones are just for languages which were outdated and uninstallable even in breezy (and maybe earlier)
[08:44] <infinity> pitti: *nod*... Point still remains that we should add more transitional packages.
[08:45] <pitti> infinity: we shuold kill the obsolete universe ones
[08:45] <dholbach> heya infinity!
[08:45] <mantas_> pitti, hi, could you update ubuntu gnome language-packs today ? Now they are 10 days old and there are lots of updated translations since then and I need to test lots off Lithuanian translations fixes before release candidate
[08:45] <pitti> mantas_: yes, already in progress
[08:45] <sivang> yo infinity 
[08:46] <pitti> infinity: can you please remove mozilla-thunderbird-locale-{el,es,ko,nb,pt-br,ru,sv,tr} from universe?
[08:46] <infinity> Yup.
[08:47] <pitti> infinity: I can add them as transitional packages anyway if you want to get them through NEW
[08:51] <thom> tseng: yeah, i noticed that but put it down to fbsd4 uselessness; take it you're running on linux?
[08:55] <infinity> pitti: They won't be NEW if they're replacing the old binaries.  That's sort of the point. ;)
[08:55] <pitti> ah, ok
[08:55] <infinity> pitti: I'll remove the old sources once the new binaries are in.
[08:55] <pitti> infinity: alright, I'm on it now
[08:55] <infinity> pitti: Thanks, dude.
[08:57] <dholbach> hey mvo!
[08:58] <mvo> hey dholbach!
[09:03] <pitti> infinity: uploaded; too late for this cron.daily unfortunately :/
[09:04] <infinity> pitti: I'm not picky.  My day's winding down, so slower, more mindless tasks, like babysitting stuff through queues, are fine with me.
[09:04] <infinity> (Another sleepless night, I've been working for the last ~12 hours..)
[09:04] <infinity> Not intentionally, mind you.
[09:05] <infinity> pitti: Are there any plans in the future to have informative changelogs for the language packs, instead of "initial release" every time? :)
[09:05] <infinity> pitti: Sometihng like "1298 new strings, 892 corrected strings" might be nice.
[09:05] <pitti> infinity: the ones you see on d-changes are the NEW ones, thus *are* initial release :)
[09:05] <infinity> pitti: If those sort of statistics can be gathered.
[09:06] <pitti> infinity: they can, it would just take much computation power and a way to access the old packages
[09:06] <infinity> pitti: They ALL say that, you can't fool me. :)
[09:06] <pitti> infinity: yes, sure, but the preexisting ones aren't announced on -changes
[09:06] <fabbione> oh craptastic
[09:06] <infinity> pitti: Well, I'd assume that eventually, if rosetta is spitting these things out, it can keep statistics and a running changelog... Maybe?
[09:07] <fabbione> i can't go in vac a week that i get 200 bugs untriaged
[09:07] <infinity> pitti: That might be kinda slick.
[09:07] <pitti> infinity: I already have statistics for the whole tarball, but not broken out per-language and per-component (main/kde/gnome)
[09:07] <infinity> pitti: Anyhow, way offtopic for release crunch, maybe I'll be all pie-in-the-sky about pretty langpack changelogs in Paris.
[09:07] <pitti> infinity: if that's desirable, I can certainly hack something (but post-release)
[09:13] <infinity> mvo: Hey, dude.
[09:13] <infinity> mvo: How often do you refresh the icons and such in app-install-data?
[09:13] <infinity> mvo: Would be nice to get the prettier Tbird icon in there.
[09:15] <pitti> Riddell: will you care for the current oversizedness of kubuntu install CDs?
[09:16] <pitti> Riddell: erm, live CDs, the install ones are fine
[09:16] <mvo> infinity: I can do another refresh run today, I did the last before the weekend, it requires (a bit of) manual work, at least looking over the changes etc
[09:17] <infinity> mvo: Well, I could just give you the .svg and you could replace that one thing. :)
[09:18] <mvo> infinity: that would be too easy ;) yeah, lets do it this way
[09:20] <infinity> mvo: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/mozilla-thunderbird.svg
[09:20] <infinity> mvo: And /usr/share/app-install/desktop/mozilla-thunderbird.desktop needs to be mangled to drop the ".xpm" extension from the filename.
[09:21] <infinity> mvo: In theory, that should do it.  I welcome your testing, however. :)
[09:25] <dholbach> infinity: good night
[09:27] <Kinnison> ciau adam
[09:42] <desrt> pvanhoof; didn't know you often came here
[09:42] <pvanhoof> autojoin
[09:42] <desrt> odd.
[09:43] <desrt> it would be useful to have a service that auto-connected to efnet, gimpnet, freenode for you
[09:43] <desrt> and looked like a single server to your irc client
[09:43] <desrt> and "knew" about which server each channel was on
[09:44] <desrt> (like... even though efnet has #ubuntu, it would know that the real one is here)
[09:44] <pvanhoof> oh, that might ne useful yes. But if I really needed that already I'd probably set myself a psybnc up on my private servers
[09:44] <desrt> psy does connection multiplexing?
[09:44] <pvanhoof> I'm sure I could hack it that way if it doesn't
[09:45] <desrt> <3 free software
[09:45] <desrt> wanna hear something awesome?
[09:45] <pvanhoof> sure
[09:45] <desrt> inspired somewhat by toshok, i installed starcraft today
[09:45] <desrt> so i'm gonna go play it now :)
[09:45] <desrt> g'night.
[09:45] <pvanhoof> g'night :)
[09:54] <seb128> pitti, carlos: do you know why gnome-panel template is outdated?
[09:55] <seb128> pitti, carlos: the new item of the help submenu are not listed :/
[09:55] <pitti> seb128: the POT you mean? doesn't it get rebuilt on package build?
[09:55] <seb128> pitti: it does, I would not ask other way but would fix it :p
[09:55] <pitti> seb128: maybe that menu item is in a new file not mentioned in POTFILES.in?
[09:55] <seb128> pitti: cf my comment on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/31775/+index
[09:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31775 in Ubuntu Dapper "Ubuntu should have better links to support options" [Normal,Fix released]  
[09:55] <carlos> seb128: not yet, I need to do some checks first...
[09:55] <seb128> pitti: the .pot from my local build list them correctly
[09:56] <seb128> carlos: could you do that now? that's sort of a dapper priority
[09:56] <Kinnison> pitti: The language packs are still building. Unfortunately one of the two i386 builders has openoffice.org on it
[09:56] <seb128> pitti: and the build log has a "cd po; intltool-update -p" call with no sign of error for it
[09:57] <dholbach> heya seb128!
[09:57] <seb128> dholbach: hi kubuntu-er :p
[09:57] <dholbach> pffft
[09:57] <dholbach> I knew I'd hear something like that :)
[09:58] <fabbione> mdz: 
[09:58] <fabbione> multipath-tools (0.4.7-1ubuntu7) dapper; urgency=low
[09:58] <fabbione>   * Fix typo in init script that was executing hsg80_init unconditionally.
[09:58] <fabbione>   * Suggests: sg3-utils and Conflicts: sg-utils (obsoleted).
[09:58] <fabbione> ^^ can i upload?
[09:58] <carlos> seb128: when did you upload latest package?
[09:59] <pitti> Kinnison: yeah, I just checked :/
[09:59] <seb128> carlos: latest package or the one with those changes?
[09:59] <carlos> latest package
[09:59] <carlos> I assume latest package should have those changes too, right?
[09:59] <seb128> carlos: probably 4-5 days ago, lemme check
[09:59] <seb128> right
[09:59] <seb128> 2006-05-18 11:06:51
[10:00] <seb128> carlos: read?
[10:00] <seb128> carlos: but comment on bug #31775 states that:
[10:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31775 in Ubuntu Dapper "Ubuntu should have better links to support options" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31775
[10:00] <seb128> "FWIW: it appeared in Rosetta quickly, but since then seems to have
[10:00] <seb128> disappeared, from what people seem to have reported."
[10:01] <carlos> seb128: the .pot we have atm imported says: POT-Creation-Date: 2006-03-14 12:44+0100
[10:01] <seb128> not good
[10:01] <seb128> could you look why previous build didn't get its template imported? 
[10:01] <seb128> the build system didn't change
[10:01] <seb128> and the build log has the call to "cd po; intltool-update -p"
[10:02] <carlos> seb128: "Commercial Support" is one of the additions, right?
[10:02] <seb128> carlos: correct
[10:02] <carlos> seb128: I don't get such strings in my about menu...
[10:02] <seb128> carlos: did you restart your panel recently?
[10:02] <carlos> this morning
[10:03] <seb128> carlos: dpkg -l gnome-panel
[10:03] <carlos> where should I see it?
[10:03] <carlos> 2.14.1-0ubuntu13
[10:03] <seb128> carlos: system, help submenu
[10:03] <mdz> fabbione: ok
[10:03] <carlos> oh, ok
[10:03] <carlos> I see them ;-)
[10:04] <fabbione> mdz: thanks
[10:04] <seb128> carlos: ah, better that way
[10:04] <seb128> :p
[10:08] <Keybuk> one interesting thing about Dapper, I've noticed
[10:08] <Keybuk> this is the first release that I haven't had to reinstall during the development cycle
[10:10] <jsgotangco> i only reinstalled like twice
[10:10] <jsgotangco> (except laptop testing)
[10:10] <mdz> mvo: is the auto-dist-upgrade test still running
[10:11] <mvo_> mdz: yes, I got some md5sum problems the weekend, looking at this now
[10:11] <mvo_> mdz:  is this ok to upload: update-manager (0.42.2ubuntu19) dapper; urgency=low
[10:11] <mvo_>  .
[10:11] <mvo_>    * help/C/figures:
[10:11] <mvo_>      - applied "pngcrush" on the figures in the manual,
[10:11] <mvo_>        this saves 4 MB uncompressed (ubuntu: #45901)
[10:12] <mdz> mvo_: yes
[10:14] <mvo_> mdz: thanks
[10:15] <seb128> carlos: any luck on the panel?
[10:15] <carlos> uploading latest version atm
[10:15] <mdz> seb128: can you do the panel updates so that when we get the book, we don't need to change the panel?
[10:15] <seb128> carlos: how "uploading"? why didn't it do an import from the build?
[10:15] <carlos> seb128: I really don't understand how was that possible...
[10:16] <mvo_> mdz: I would also like to do another notification daemon upload today, there is currently a pretty ugly visual glitch for small notifications on the bottom panel (#45632)
[10:16] <seb128> mdz: yeah, I'll do that as soon as carlos has sorted why my change from previous week are not listed by rosetta
[10:16] <mdz> seb128: ok
[10:16] <mdz> mvo_: that effect looks almost intentional :-)
[10:17] <mdz> mvo_: where's the patch?
[10:17] <seb128> carlos: maybe pitti would know?
[10:17] <carlos> seb128: no, I don't think so
[10:17] <carlos> seb128: people.ubuntu.com says that the .pot file is correct
[10:17] <mvo_> mdz: not done yet :(
[10:17] <seb128> mvo_: from what package does "Enter your password to perform administratives tasks"  come?
[10:18] <mvo_> seb128: most likely gksu, why?
[10:18] <seb128> carlos: I asked for the panel template to launchpad yesterday to rosetta and got an error mail too
[10:18] <carlos> seb128: when did you add those new strings? 
[10:18] <carlos> seb128: the .pot export is not working atm
[10:18] <Kagou> hi
[10:18] <seb128> mvo_: because gksu, libgksu* are translated to french and that string is still englsuh
[10:18] <seb128> english
[10:18] <carlos> seb128: it's unrelated to this problem
[10:19] <seb128> carlos: 2006-05-16 17:06:38
[10:19] <seb128> I think
[10:19] <mvo_> seb128: hrm, that sucks!
[10:19] <imbrandon> kdesu maybe ?
[10:19] <seb128> that's the date from the "publish history" page
[10:19] <mvo_> seb128: does it come when you type gksu id?
[10:19] <seb128> mvo_: yeah really, do you run a german desktop? is it translated for you?
[10:19] <mdz> mvo_: do you know what the problem is?
[10:19] <seb128> mvo_: "id"?
[10:19] <mdz> mvo_: if it's not trivial to fix, it can wait until after the release
[10:19] <mdz> seems like quite a minor bug
[10:20] <mvo_> mdz: yes, I think I have a pretty good idea what the problem is. it is a minor bug, but it looks *so* ugly
[10:21] <mvo_> seb128: well, anything
[10:21] <Kamion> infinity: changing DISTRIB_RELEASE at this point is bad - various build systems rely on that being 6.06
[10:21] <seb128> mvo_: "gksu ls" is translated correctly
[10:21] <Kamion> mdz: ^--
[10:21] <seb128> mvo_: "gksu --desktop synaptic.desktop  synaptic" is not
[10:21] <seb128> neither the title
[10:21] <seb128> nor the description
[10:21] <Kamion> (changing non-machine-parseable strings is fine)
[10:22] <seb128> and that's really visible since that's the dialog you get when using update-notifier
[10:22] <mdz> Kamion: gar, really?
[10:22] <mdz> Kamion: if so, go ahead and revert that bit
[10:22] <mdz> but issue, issue.net, _DESCRIPTION, etc. should definitely say LTS
[10:23] <mvo_> seb128: ok, please nag me about it in a bit again, I'll fix it. I just want to get this notification-daemon thing done first
[10:23] <seb128> mvo_: ok
[10:24] <Keybuk> pitti: there's a bunch of language packs that are hankering to be demoted to universe
[10:24] <mdz> mvo_: could you do the pngcrush thing for hwdb-client as well?
[10:24] <mvo_> mdz: sure
[10:24] <pitti> Keybuk: uh? I thought they are all caught by germinate's wild card magic
[10:24] <pitti> Keybuk: or do you mean thunderbird-locale-XX?
[10:25] <Keybuk> it could be just that germinate hasn't updated, if they're brand new
[10:25] <Keybuk> language-pack-gnome-fy, language-pack-gnome-fy-base
[10:25] <Keybuk> language-pack-kde-am, language-pack-kde-am-base
[10:25] <Keybuk> language-pack-kde-oc, language-pack-kde-oc-base
[10:25] <Keybuk> -- 
[10:25] <pitti> Keybuk: right, these are the new ones
[10:25] <Keybuk> right-o, they'll probably vanish in ten minutes then :)
[10:26] <jsgotangco> mvo_: nice upload, that's a big difference thanks
[10:26] <Kamion> mdz: pretty sure, I remember we had to fix some stuff when we changed from 6.04 to 6.06
[10:27] <mvo_> jsgotangco: cheers
[10:27] <Kamion> mdz: I think I've reached an understanding of the ubiquity resize problems that have been reported, and I think we need to fix those - quick fix should be to remove /var/lib/partman before every partman run, and to take a bit more care to make sure partman_commit uses the manual partitioning path; about to set up a test environment for that
[10:28] <Kamion> I still have 146 new mails in /var/mail/cjwatson though so it'll be a *little* while before I'm up to date ...
[10:28] <mdz> Kamion: I just got this feeling like someone walked over my grave
[10:28] <carlos> seb128: ok, got the problem
[10:29] <seb128> carlos: ah nice, what is causing it?
[10:29] <carlos> pitti: it's in your script part of the exports, but I guess I could add a workaround for it
[10:29] <Kamion> mdz: this week is not going well for me so far :-/
[10:29] <pitti> carlos: the gnome-panel problem?
[10:29] <carlos> pitti: yes
[10:30] <carlos> seb128, pitti: I don't know why, but the i386 build didn't get those strings
[10:30] <carlos> even more, the .pot file seems like was not updated
[10:30] <carlos> pitti: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileBF9Uhc.html
[10:31] <carlos> that's the start of the diff between the i386 and amd64 .pot files
[10:31] <Kamion> mdz: also the gnome-power-manager reconfiguration thing that mjg59 reported
[10:31] <carlos> same build, different .pot files
[10:31] <pitti> strange
[10:32] <ogra> pitti, pong
[10:32] <carlos> I'm not filtering .pot files that have the POT-Creation-Date older than the one I have already imported
[10:32] <ogra> mvo_, oh, you fixed pngcrush ?
[10:32] <carlos> but I could do it
[10:33] <carlos> the problem it could cause is that a package that generates the .pot file without gettext, would forget to update that field
[10:33] <carlos> and we could miss some new strings
[10:33] <pitti> ogra: edubuntu ppc/live still has 43 MB free; shall I update the seeds to fill that with 38 MB langpacks, or do you need it for other purposes?
[10:33] <carlos> but it would prevent this kind of bugs
[10:33] <ogra> pitti, feel free :)
[10:34] <ogra> mdz, did you want the hwdb button re-addres to the device manager ? its only 5 lines of code and ~10 lines of glade stuff, we dropped it when i had to add a .desktop file for KDE compatibbility
[10:34] <mdz> Kamion: g-p-m reconfiguration thing?
[10:34] <ogra> *re-added
[10:35] <mdz> ogra: please; that is a regression
[10:35] <ogra> ok
[10:35] <mdz> ogra: but get the patch reviewed before uploading
[10:35] <ogra> i thought we agreed fro breezy that it wasnt needed if a .desktop file exists
[10:35] <mdz> ogra: I hope the translations are still in the .po file?
[10:35] <mdz> ogra: there is no .desktop file (or it is suppressed)
[10:35] <ogra> i dont think so, it was never tharnslated and dropped for breezy already
[10:36] <ogra> its supressed
[10:36] <ogra> you can see it in alacarte after installein
[10:36] <ogra> *installing
[10:36] <Kamion> mdz: bug 45654
[10:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45654 in ubiquity "Gnome-power-manager postinst not run" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45654
[10:37] <seb128> would people consider "copying all the yelp .po from launchpad to the source package" as an ugly workaround?
[10:37] <mdz> Kamion: urgh
[10:37] <mdz> seb128: no
[10:38] <seb128> that's to fix #45875
[10:38] <seb128> bug #45875
[10:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45875 in yelp "Untranslated strings from 06_toc-with-desc.patch" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45875
[10:38] <seb128> ok, I'll do that then
[10:38] <mdz> seb128: that's entirely reasonable
[10:38] <seb128> so we get a toc translated
[10:38] <seb128> mdz: thank you
[10:38] <mdz> Kamion: I think #45654 should be fixed in casper
[10:38] <seb128> the toc is a .xml so the translations need to be present for the build
[10:40] <Kamion> mdz: I don't object either way
[10:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ^-- ?
[10:40] <mdz> Kamion: suspend to RAM is a valid use case on the live CD (e.g., for testing)
[10:40] <mdz> it should be enabled by default if known to work on that hardware, as for the installed system
[10:41] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ..casper-1.54/casper-bottom > grep reconfigure 32disable_hibernation casper-reconfigure /root gnome-power-manager
[10:41] <Mithrandir> bah
[10:41] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ..casper-1.54/casper-bottom > grep reconfigure 32disable_hibernation
[10:41] <Mithrandir>     casper-reconfigure /root gnome-power-manager
[10:41] <mdz> Kamion: do you have a bug# for the partitioning issue?
[10:41] <Mithrandir> though, casper doesn't copy it in.  It probably should.
[10:41] <Mithrandir> hmm
[10:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: so it just needs to be copied as a ubiquity hook?
[10:42] <Mithrandir> or rather, gnome-power-manager should add that hook, IMO
[10:42] <mvo_> mdz: hwdb with pngcrush ready, saves ~1,9mb uncompressed. can I just upload?
[10:42] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: would that involve having a file in the g-p-m package?
[10:42] <mdz> mvo_: yes
[10:42] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: yes.
[10:42] <Mithrandir> mdz: yeah, we just need to decide who gets the honour of doing so.  IIRC, this is all gconf stuff.
[10:42] <ogra> mvo_, how did you get pngcrush working ? it segfaults on all arches for me
[10:43] <mdz> Mithrandir: what are we doing for existing packages?  I thought casper supplied all the hooks still
[10:43] <mvo_> ogra: there is a uvf request approved for a sync, i rebuild it locally
[10:43] <Mithrandir> mdz: hmm, casper does actually the reconfigure for g-panel-data, so I guess it could do it for g-p-m too.
[10:44] <ogra> mvo_, ah, thanks a lot
[10:44] <mvo_> ogra: hwdb is uploaded, no worries :)
[10:44] <ogra> :)
[10:45] <Mithrandir> iwj: is there any way of setting firefox prefs from the command line?
[10:45] <Kamion> mdz: bug 45597 and others
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45597 in ubiquity "Resizing partition results in data loss" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45597
[10:46] <Kamion> also bug 45652
[10:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45652 in ubiquity "Partitioner *really* confused" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45652
[10:46] <Kamion> haven't analysed all the logs yet
[10:46] <carlos> pitti: Should I file a bug about the broken .pot file generated with gnome-panel? if the answer is 'yes', where? gnome-panel?, pkgstriptranslations ?
[10:47] <mdz> Kamion: added to DapperReleaseRadar
[10:47] <pitti> carlos: I'll take a look at it right now, then I'll see what needs to be done
[10:47] <carlos> pitti: ok, thanks
[10:47] <mdz> workrave just told me I should stop for the day
[10:47] <dholbach> mdz: for the complete day?
[10:47] <Kinnison> mdz: oops
[10:47] <ogra> ouch
[10:48] <carlos> do you think I should filterout any .pot file that has the POT-Creation-Date field older than the one we have in Rosetta?
[10:48] <mdz> this version doesn't deal with hibernation very elegantly ;-)
[10:48] <pitti> carlos: it would be nice to detect these cases
[10:48] <mdz> I remember approving a freeze exception to get that fix in (dholbach I think?)
[10:48] <pitti> carlos: if you filter them out, the amd64 one would get used?
[10:48] <dholbach> mdz: yes - the changelog said it had "fixes for hibernation, etc"
[10:48] <carlos> pitti: yes
[10:48] <Mithrandir> huh, I apparently don't need to be root to run growisofs?
[10:49] <mdz> dholbach: which version was that?
[10:49] <pitti> carlos: that certainly sounds useful then, if the filtering out also generates a warning message somewhere, so that we can fix the actual bug
[10:49] <carlos> pitti : the only problem is with packages that are not updating that field
[10:49] <mdz> dholbach: this is 1.8.3-1ubuntu1
[10:50] <carlos> pitti: hmm, but I guess I could workaround it if I allow .pot uploads with the same date
[10:50] <Mithrandir> mdz: any other casper bugs you'd want me to look at too, or should I just upload that?
[10:50] <carlos> pitti: ok, I will try to do it that way
[10:50] <dholbach> 1.8.3 has "fixed a bug that could cause to stop running when 'suspend timer while inactive' was disabled." and 1.8.2 has "better hibernate/standby suport on Unix." (we had 1.8.1 before)
[10:50] <dholbach> mdz: ^
[10:50] <Kamion> pitti: please undo that 6.06LTS DISTRIB_RELEASE hack you did in postgresql-common, if it failed to allow 6.06 as well
[10:50] <Kamion> pitti: I've reverted base-files
[10:51] <pitti> Kamion: oh, ok; I could just allow for both to be sure
[10:51] <pitti> Kamion: there is still a sane fallback for unknown ones, but that would generate a warning on installation
[10:51] <carlos> pitti: btw, I'm trying to get updated language packs, there is a broken python package installed that breaks the generation, I think you should use that tarball as the final language pack
[10:52] <pitti> carlos: 'that' -> the one you are going to build right now?
[10:52] <carlos> pitti: yes
[10:52] <pitti> carlos: if mdz is fine with uploading a new set, fine for me
[10:53] <pitti> carlos: I'll test them this evening when they are built
[10:53] <mdz> Mithrandir: anything targeted at 6.06?
[10:53] <carlos> pitti: but not right now but later today as usual (the mirror is still being updated)
[10:53] <carlos> pitti: ok
[10:53] <mdz> pitti: are there translations for the missing strings which we are missing?
[10:54] <pitti> mdz: IIRC carlos said that the current tarball lacks some KDE files, and hopefully they're also fix this gnome-panel issue; carlos, right?
[10:55] <Keybuk> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/reports/confirmed_notforwarded.html
[10:56] <carlos> pitti: hmm, not really, gnome-panel has been fixed after the mirror started, so it will not be there, but I could provide you with the updated gnome-panel's .po files in another tarball
[10:56] <pitti> carlos: so what else is broken in the current dapper packs? (May 18 tarball)
[10:56] <carlos> mdz, pitti: Also there are some new translation domains that I fixed last week that we would get also with this export
[10:57] <carlos> pitti: the whole list of missing translation domains that I fixed last friday
[10:57] <pitti> ok, that sounds worthwhile
[10:57] <carlos> the one I had at wiki.ubuntu.com/MissingPotFiles
[10:59] <carlos> pitti: you have still some translation domains that should be fixed/reviewed
[10:59] <pitti> carlos: I was just going to say that I'll remove them from my tarballs
[10:59] <carlos> pitti: they are noted on that page
[10:59] <pitti> :)
[10:59] <carlos> well, tuxpaint-stamps needs a .pot regeneration on build time
[11:00] <carlos> and I guess we could remove gettext, man and test
[11:00] <carlos> but would be good if you could provide me with its sourcepackage
[11:00] <pitti> right
[11:00] <carlos> to be 100% sure
[11:04] <Mirv> seb128: apparently you did notice https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2006-May/000606.html ? or then the strings have reappeared by their own. thanks, anyway.
[11:04] <seb128> Mirv: I've pointed it to carlos who just fixed it (cf discussion on that chan some time ago), np ;)
[11:05] <Kamion> pitti: *nod*
[11:07] <carlos> seb128: I just answered that email
[11:08] <carlos> Mirv: ^^^
[11:08] <marcin_> hi guys
[11:08] <marcin_> could someone tell me what is the procedure when I translate some strings in rosetta?
[11:08] <seb128> carlos: ok, thank you
[11:09] <marcin_> when these changes are going to appear in packages?
[11:10] <seb128> before dapper
[11:10] <carlos> seb128: btw, the notification messages from gnome-xchat are using a width too small
[11:10] <pitti> Kamion: fix uploaded, thanks for the notification
[11:10] <seb128> carlos: that's a bug for mvo_ ;)
[11:10] <carlos> ok, so you are aware of the problem
[11:11] <marcin_> seb128: so someone should review and commit them soon?
[11:11] <janimo> Riddell: hi, ddo the kde screensavers show up in kde system menus?They do in xfce  bug 39466
[11:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39466 in xfdesktop4 "KDE Screensavers Show Up In XFCE Menu" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39466
[11:12] <seb128> marcin_: not sure of what you call "commit", somebody should translate them on rosetta for your locale so they are available with next language-packs update
[11:12] <carlos> marcin_: I think we are going to generate packages today with all translations done until yesterday
[11:12] <seb128> carlos: until yesterday is without those panel ones then
[11:12] <carlos> if there is something untranslated, you should translate it in Rosetta and we will release new packages in a month with those updates
[11:12] <marcin_> seb128: I contributed some translations this is why I ask when they will be visible
[11:13] <carlos> seb128: well, the panel changes will be added by hand ;-)
[11:13] <carlos> seb128: but I'm not sure if the upload is approved already
[11:13] <seb128> I need to give mvo some good kicking too ;)
[11:13] <marcin_> another thing is that there is a lot of strings that should be updated automatically
[11:14] <seb128> german guys should run a german desktop and notice when their change breaks translations like that :p
[11:14] <marcin_> for example 'strings' like  %s %f etc....
[11:14] <mdz> Mithrandir: did you do that DVD test we discussed at last week's meeting?
[11:14] <mvo_> mdz: I did one, the live session was run on my system (it wasn't with the old version)
[11:15] <carlos> marcin_: if there are strings that are just '%s %f"
[11:15] <Mithrandir> mdz: I was planning on doing it today since I had the pleasure of dealing with tax return forms the whole of friday.
[11:15] <carlos> marcin_: either the maintainer should not tag them to be translated
[11:15] <Kamion> mvo_: did the option to use the traditional installer work too?
[11:15] <marcin_> can you something with rosetta to make them translated automatically?
[11:15] <marcin_> s/you/you do
[11:15] <carlos> or you, as a translator would be interested on changing its order
[11:15] <mdz> mvo_: if you still have it, and can test the d-i mode, that would be handy
[11:16] <marcin_> carlos: ok
[11:16] <mvo_> Kamion, mdz: I have it and can do it in a bit, unfortunately my only system with dvd is the one I work with mostly
[11:16] <carlos> marcin_: and thus, we cannot translate them automatically
[11:16] <fabbione> mdz: i can test ppc dvd here in a short time
[11:16] <carlos> well, we can, but we shouldn't ;-)
[11:27] <mdz> Kamion: just hit an odd case in ubiquity partman during an install here
[11:29] <pitti> seb128: according to the build logs, neither the amd64 nor the i386 gnome-panel build updated the POT file, hmm
[11:30] <seb128> pitti: I don't read the build log the same way then
[11:30] <seb128> pitti: the i386 log has a "cd po; intltool-update -p" call and no error next to it
[11:30] <pitti> seb128: oh, wait, it doesn't use --verbose
[11:30] <pitti> right, sorry
[11:31] <seb128> np
[11:31] <pitti> seb128: so, the cdbs rule tries to update it and fails with 'intltool-update: POTFILES.in not found.'; then, later, there apparently is a custom rules snippet which calls it again
[11:32] <Kamion> mdz: ?
[11:33] <seb128> pitti: right, that's because it's built out of the src directory
[11:33] <seb128> pitti: to debian/build, so the cdbs snippet doesn't work
[11:33] <pitti> ah, I see
[11:36] <Kagou> smurf, around ?
[11:37] <seb128> pitti: I'm about to make a panel upload, should I make that intltool-update call --verbose?
[11:37] <pitti> seb128: can't hurt
[11:38] <pitti> carlos, seb128: still, I'm totally lost about this g-p amd64/i386 difference
[11:38] <seb128> weird, isn't it? :)
[11:38] <carlos> yeah
[11:38] <carlos> I didn't see anything wrong in the buildd output
[11:39] <carlos> seb128: when the package is published, please, ping me so I remember to check that we didn't lose any string again
[11:39] <seb128> carlos: I've just uploaded, ok, I'll let you know
[11:39] <pitti> carlos: and apart from the mo files, the amd64 and i386 tarballs differ only in the pot file
[11:39] <carlos> pitti: btw, I'm asking for removal the pmount .po files that you migrated to the right locale... sorry for the delay...
[11:40] <pitti> carlos: great
[11:40] <pitti> seb128: hm, maybe --verbose will reveal something; I'll watch the next build log
[11:40] <seb128> same for me
[11:41] <Mithrandir> Riddell: is it known that splashdown doesn't work correctly on the kubuntu live cd?
[11:45] <iwj> Mithrandir: Not that I know of.  In any case, it wouldn't work while firefox is running.  Why do you ask ?
[11:46] <ogra> pitti, i dont want to uuencode the hwdb icon in my hal patch, would you mind a dependency on hwdb-client for hal-device-manager ? 
[11:46] <Mithrandir> iwj: I want to change some default settings in my "make my desktop work the way I want, dammit" script.
[11:46] <pitti> ogra: no, of course not
[11:46] <ogra> thanks :)
[11:46] <pitti> I grab some food now, bbl
[11:47] <janimo> is something like mail latest uploader on FTBFS planned for soyuz?
[11:47] <iwj> Mithrandir: You could edit /etc/firefox/pref/firefox.js, unless that has the wrong permissions.
[11:48] <Mithrandir> iwj: I'll run this script on machines I don't have root on too, so that's unfortunately not a solution.
[11:50] <iwj> Mithrandir: It's possible that editing ~/.mozilla/firefox/<random-number>.default/prefs.js will work but probably only after the profile has been created.
[11:51] <Mithrandir> iwj: yeah, and it's the $random_number part which, well, is random.
[11:55] <iwj> Mithrandir: Well, you could run firefox -CreateProfile (which needs an X display for no readily apparent reason ...)
[11:56] <Mithrandir> iwj: vfb-run handles that, so that's fine, really.
[11:56] <Mithrandir> iwj: hmm, I could possibly do that and go to a javascript URL.
[11:57] <iwj> Hmm, thinking of it, you should really edit/create user.js and not prefs.js (in the same directory as prefs.js).
[11:57] <iwj> No, create the profile with -CreateProfile and now just grobble through ~/.mozilla to find the right directory.
[12:04] <Keybuk> grr
[12:04] <Keybuk> I hate people who file bugs just because they think something is wrong with code
[12:05] <Keybuk> not because they've actually found a problem with it
[12:05] <Keybuk> "foo fails to frobnicate bar!" ... "we don't have bar in dapper" ... "oh"
[12:05] <Keybuk> type thing
[12:05] <Keybuk> or, in this case, udev doesn't check for /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug ... that's right, we don't USE that
[12:06] <fabbione> Keybuk: we don't????? HOLY COW THE WORLD WILL FALL DOWN
[12:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: is it nontrivial to change "CD" to "DVD" in the "check cd for defects" menu entry on the dvd?
[12:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes, requires translation
[12:08] <Kamion> sorry
[12:08] <Mithrandir> point.
[12:08] <Mithrandir> want a bug about it anyway?  (Or maybe you have one?)
[12:09] <pitti> re
[12:09] <mdz> seb128: I was just going through Testing/Short, the bit where you copy the file and check that it isn't read-only
[12:09] <mdz> seb128: that works, but only if I hold Ctrl when dragging the file, otherwise it says it can't move it
[12:10] <mdz> seb128: if it can't move, shouldn't it fall back to copying?
[12:12] <seb128> mdz: it should, we have a bug about that but it works fine on my box
[12:12] <seb128> (ie: dnd from /usr to my desktop copy)
[12:14] <mdz> Kamion: after a default ubiquity install in vmware, I have two entries for the CD in sources.list (one commented, one uncommented) which looks a bit confusing in synaptic
[12:14] <mdz> seb128: reproduced easily here in vmware with Examples
[12:14] <mdz> dragging to the desktop
[12:15] <mdz> seb128: also on my laptop here
[12:15] <mdz> seb128: any debugging I can do?
[12:15] <seb128> mdz: what do you dnd, from where to where?
[12:15] <mdz> seb128: about-ubuntu.odt from example-content to the desktop
[12:16] <mdz> seb128: er, about-these-files.odt
[12:16] <mdz> which is root/root 0644
[12:16] <carlos> pitti: are you still using the mapping.txt file from the language pack tarball?
[12:16] <mdz> Keybuk: while you're doing archive stuff, could you do that pngcrush sync mvo mentioned?
[12:16] <pitti> carlos: yes, I do; is it broken?
[12:17] <Keybuk> mdz: I've just started that one :)
[12:17] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks
[12:17] <Keybuk> how did you know I was doing archive stuff?
[12:17] <seb128> mdz: do you have /usr and /home on the same partition?
[12:17] <mdz> Keybuk: malone told you
[12:17] <mdz> s/you/me/
[12:17] <mdz> seb128: yes
[12:17] <Lure> mdz: iegarty on #ubuntu-bugs directed me to you - bug 22985 (with many duplicates) - shouldn't this be on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseRadar?
[12:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 22985 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "[x700]  fails to infer lvds for primary connector on acer ferrari 4005" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/22985
[12:17] <seb128> mdz: it might work on my desktop because they are different partitions, lemme try on my laptop
[12:18] <carlos> no, I'm looking into what's needed to move language pack tarballs into production and that file generation takes a lot of time, I was checking if it's needed (and thus, I should improve the code that generates it) or if I could remove it
[12:18] <mvo_> mdz: the double cdrom thing is #45028
[12:18] <mdz> Lure: not unless there is a trivial/obvious/safe fix available
[12:19] <mdz> mvo_: thanks
[12:20] <carlos> pitti: seems like the problem I had to generate language packs is fixed. Today, the export should work... still using the mirror, but should work
[12:20] <pitti> nice
[12:20] <Lure> mdz: ok, we will check if https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1559 fix is it - if it fixes, where should we send the patch for consideration?
[12:20] <Ubugtu> bugs.freedesktop.org bug 1559 in Driver/Radeon "radeon: Continuing problems with display detection" [Major,Reopened]  
[12:21] <mdz> Lure: in malone, it points to fd.o bug 5473, not 1559
[12:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5473 in pyopenal "pyopenal: merge new debian version" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5473
[12:22] <mdz> Lure: there is no patch attached to either of them that I see
[12:22] <pitti> carlos: what's wrong with the 'gettext' domain? apparently it's from the gettext-kde source package
[12:23] <carlos> pitti: just that I wasn't aware where it came from ;-)
[12:23] <pitti> carlos: ah, now you know ;)
[12:23] <mdz> dholbach: ping?
[12:23] <pitti> carlos: 'man' is from belocs-locales-bin
[12:23] <dholbach> mdz: pong
[12:23] <pitti> carlos: ... and can be ignored
[12:24] <mdz> dholbach: ETA for ubuntu-artwork update?
[12:24] <dholbach> mdz: 5-10 min
[12:24] <Kamion> mdz: not ubiquity-specific
[12:24] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[12:24] <dholbach> mdz: fixing up as quick as i can
[12:24] <Kamion> (bug already filed too, on apt-setup)
[12:24] <carlos> pitti: anyway, I don't think we should translate gettext-kde, it's an ugly workaround from KDE that will not be used with KDE 4.x and it's only needed to generate KDE's .pot files... so I will not import it
[12:24] <mdz> Kamion: mvo pointed out the bug, thanks
[12:24] <carlos> pitti: ok
[12:24] <pitti> carlos: right, I'll ignore it as well
[12:24] <Kamion> mdz: do I need to work on it urgently for dapper?
[12:24] <mdz> Kamion: nope
[12:24] <pitti> carlos: 'test' is from source 'nevow'
[12:25] <Lure> mdz: I know, sladen mentioned that fix is supposed to be commited recently in Xorg cvs - will look into this in the evening 
[12:25] <mdz> wanted to know if it was filed already, and it is
[12:25] <carlos> pitti: it's inside 'examples/i18n' ...
[12:25] <carlos> I don't think we should import it either..
[12:26] <pitti> carlos: right, I marked these as to be ignored in my scripts
[12:26] <dsilvers> ogra: Did you want to make a change to the hal package?
[12:26] <mdz> seb128: something seems to have broken splash-down; usplash doesn't get started when shutting down
[12:26] <mdz> seb128: do you know anything about it?
[12:26] <carlos> pitti: did you added too the ones noted by Riddell as obsolete?
[12:26] <pitti> carlos: will do
[12:26] <dsilvers> mdz: It's bug 35182
[12:26] <seb128> mdz: yes, a sec, I find the bug
[12:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35182 in gnome-power-manager "Shutdown from g-p-m doesn't use uspash" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35182
[12:27] <dsilvers> mdz: I have a patch for hal which I'm just about to try and test
[12:27] <seb128> thank you dsilvers
[12:27] <carlos> pitti: ok, thanks. That way we will get the list of any remaining template that we forgot to handle
[12:27] <ogra> dsilvers, yep
[12:27] <ogra> dsilvers, but only to the device manager and the galde file of it)
[12:27] <ogra> *glade
[12:27] <mdz> mvo_: did we get a .desktop file into g-a-i for sun java?
[12:28] <Kinnison> ogra: If you can get a patch file to me, I'll add it to this upload
[12:28] <ogra> Kinnison, will do, but pitti has to review it
[12:29] <pitti> carlos: what's wrong with gnome-doc-utils?
[12:29] <carlos> pitti: don't know
[12:29] <carlos> what's wrong?
[12:29] <pitti> carlos: it's mentioned in 'remove from buildd tarball'
[12:29] <carlos> oh, sorry
[12:29] <carlos> right
[12:29] <Keybuk> dholbach: ping
[12:29] <mdz> Kinnison: added to DapperReleaseRadar, please get that in
[12:29] <dholbach> Keybuk: pong
[12:30] <carlos> pitti: it's documentation 
[12:30] <mdz> or else revert the change which caused it
[12:30] <Kinnison> mdz: right.
[12:30] <carlos> pitti: and should not be inside the language packs
[12:30] <Keybuk> dholbach: no such package in Debian as festival-it
[12:30] <dholbach> Keybuk: source package?
[12:30] <pitti> carlos: are you sure? these are tools to generate documentation, and it has a proper pot and po/ directory
[12:30] <Keybuk> dholbach: no such source :)
[12:31] <Keybuk> oh, hmm
[12:31] <dholbach> Keybuk: http://packages.debian.org/src:festival-it says so :-)
[12:31] <Keybuk> ah
[12:31] <Keybuk> it's already in dapper
[12:31] <dholbach> oh... sorry
[12:31] <Keybuk> same version
[12:31] <dholbach> yeah - so we're good :-)
[12:32] <dholbach> Keybuk: thanks
[12:32] <carlos> pitti: if you take a look at it https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/gnome-doc-utils/+pots/gnome-doc-utils/de/+translate
[12:32] <carlos> pitti: you will see that the translations are used to generete XML files
[12:32] <pitti> carlos: ah, ok; ignoring then
[12:34] <pitti> Riddell: what about the obsolete domains in kdeedu, kdelibs, etc.? why are they still in the kde-i18n-* packages?
[12:34] <pitti> Riddell: I can add machinery to my scripts to ignore these domains, of course, but it seems untidy
[12:34] <Kinnison> ogra: well, modulo the test I'll be doing in a few minutes (once this is built) I imagine I'll be uploading my hal fix fairly soon, so you may just end up doing your own upload later
[12:35] <dholbach> mdz: uploading
[12:35] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[12:35] <mdz> dholbach: update DapperReleaseRadar when it's in
[12:36] <Riddell> pitti: they're because nobody had removed them from KDE SVN, but they all seem to have been removed now so it'll sort itself out in the next kde release
[12:36] <dholbach> mdz: okay
[12:36] <pitti> Riddell: ok, so I need to manually ignore them now for the final dapper langpacks
[12:37] <pitti> carlos: should today's rosetta tarball contain all domains now (in theory)? I. e. do I still need to merge tarballs?
[12:37] <ogra> pitti, Kinnison, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/20_add_hwdb_button.patch
[12:37] <carlos> pitti: in theory, you should not need anything from buildd
[12:37] <carlos> pitti: but let's get the diff report today to be 100% sure
[12:38] <pitti> ogra: what is that huge removed part in the glade file?
[12:38] <pitti> carlos: I just ask whether I should go and implement a 'KDE domain ignore list' or not
[12:39] <pitti> ogra: oh, btw, patching build-tree won't help you, you need a proper debian/patches/foo.patch
[12:39] <carlos> pitti: well, if it's not trivial (done in less than 5 minutes), you could leave it if you want and we can manually remove them from the report later to detect any other missing translation domain
[12:40] <pitti> carlos: hm, just for the sake of a clean report and avoiding errors, I'll do it now (shouldn't be more than 10 minutes)
[12:40] <Kinnison> pitti: If the patch is otherwise okay, I can deal with updating the hunk headers (I do so for my own patches)
[12:40] <carlos> pitti: ok
[12:40] <carlos> thanks
[12:41] <pitti> Kinnison: hard to tell just from looking at the .glade diff; but I assume ogra tested the gui and it actually works :)
[12:41] <Mithrandir> uh, casper-md5check seems to not work correctly, for some reason.
[12:41] <Kinnison> Right, now my irssi is in a screen session I can reboot
[12:41] <pitti> Kinnison: hard to tell just from looking at the .glade diff; but I assume ogra tested the gui and it actually works :)
[12:41] <Kinnison> back in a bit
[12:41] <ogra> pitti, it does
[12:42] <pitti> ogra: that should be fine then
[12:42] <ogra> pitti, i admit the glade stuff is ugly, but i didnt want to hack the file by hand :)
[12:42] <pitti> right
[12:42] <pitti> it'll just be hard to adapt it to new upstream versions then
[12:42] <pitti> but let's not worry about that today
[12:43] <ogra> i dont think the glade ever changed since 0.4.*
[12:43] <mdz> mrgby
[12:43] <pitti> mdz: bless you
[12:43] <mdz> ^^ that is 'mount' typed on the wrong keyboard, which happens to have a dvorak layout
[12:43] <ogra> lol
[12:44] <ogra> hmm, looks like the pngcrush stuff for hwdb and u-m gains us a lot, even on edubuntu 
[12:45] <mdz> ogra: that's why I asked you to do hwdb almost 2 months ago
[12:46] <ogra> mdz, i tzried several times but couldnt get pngcrush to work, sorry
[12:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: casper-mdcheck seems to work for me (i386/vmware, current daily)
[12:46] <Mithrandir> mdz: does it give you the reboot thingy at the end?
[12:47] <mdz> ogra: you didn't say anything
[12:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: dunno, it's still running
[12:49] <Keybuk> bah, someone remind me the magic rsync cdimage incantation
[12:49] <tseng> thom: right, dapper
[12:49] <Keybuk> ah, s'ok, was in my history
[12:53] <infinity> Kamion: I didn't change DISTRIB_RELEASE, I just didn't UNchange it.
[12:53] <fabbione> are tasks or meta packages gone foobar today?
[12:54] <fabbione> (12:52:11) Anders: I'm inside something called XFce now?!??!
[12:54] <fabbione> 12:52:46) fabbione: what did you install?
[12:54] <fabbione> (12:53:00) Anders: i updated my Kubuntu :p
[12:55] <pitti> fabbione: shhh, part of KDESabotageSpec
[12:55] <MysteriousGEGL> heh
[12:56] <Kinnison> Who knows the most about usplash?
[12:57] <pitti> carlos: ok, everything should be cleaned in the buildd tarball that starts in 3 minutes
[12:57] <pitti> carlos: I'll check it afterwards by comparing the previous and new buildd tarball
[12:57] <Kinnison> infinity: Do you have any idea why usplash_down ; usplash_write ; shutdown -h would fail as a sequence?
[12:58] <mdz> Kinnison: it doesn't
[12:58] <Kinnison> infinity: I get usplash displayed, it shows the message, then I get the X is going away noise and it flips back to tty1
[12:58] <infinity> Yeah, uhm, what?
[12:58] <infinity> Oh, you're doing it from a console.
[12:58] <mdz> Kinnison: what happens is that gdm switches VTs, which causes usplash to shut down
[12:58] <infinity> Yeah.  What he said.
[12:58] <Kinnison> mdz: Aah, right
[12:58] <mdz> that was mentioned in the bug report
[12:59] <infinity> GDM switching back to itself to kill itself is braindead, but it doesn't break our default setup much, so I've never cared.
[12:59] <mdz> even if gdm didn't do that, X would
[12:59] <infinity> (And since if you're shutting down from a text consoles, you're not likely to mind a text shutdown,...)
[12:59] <mdz> so perhaps usplash_down should be run from init.d/gdm?
[12:59] <Kinnison> hmm, so init.d/gdm stop would run usplash_down ?
[01:00] <mdz> seb128: any opinion on that?
[01:00] <mdz> would cause confusing results if gdm were not in use
[01:00] <infinity> mdz: I ran it from GDM itself to avoid the noise one would get in doing it in the init script.
[01:00] <Mithrandir> uh, you might want to stop gdm without running usplash.
[01:00] <mdz> noise?
[01:00] <infinity> I still maintain that if you're not shutting down "graphically", you don't much care if your shut down it, well, graphical.
[01:01] <infinity> s/down it/down is/
[01:01] <mdz> infinity: that is not the issue here
[01:01] <mdz> infinity: it's bug #35182
[01:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35182 in gnome-power-manager "Shutdown from g-p-m doesn't use uspash" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35182
[01:01] <mdz> infinity: which is pretty much "usplash
[01:01] <infinity> mdz: There's some chatter from GDM and init before the GDM init script runs.
[01:01] <mdz> "usplash-down doesn't work at all"
[01:01] <Kinnison> infinity: You are shutting down "graphically" in the sense that gdm now signals hal to do the shutdown and thus we need the hal shutdown script to use usplash
[01:01] <mdz> "again"
[01:01] <infinity> Kinnison: Oh, ahh.  I see.  Whole different ballgame.
[01:02] <mdz> seb128: thoughts on reverting to the old way of shutting down?
[01:02] <infinity> Can g-p-m not just signal gdm to do the shutdown?
[01:02] <Kinnison> seb128: We should just not use g-p-m for shutdown for now
[01:02] <Kinnison> seb128: but continue to call it for suspend and hibernate
[01:03] <seb128> mdz, Kinnison: fine with me, I can change it back to use gdm
[01:03] <Kinnison> seb128: then I could get g-p-m to signal gdm
[01:03] <seb128> seems reasonable
[01:03] <Kinnison> seb128: rather than hal
[01:03] <Kinnison> It's a bit bodgy but it seems the least invasive method of getting it done
[01:03] <mdz> Kinnison: I don't think we need to change g-p-m
[01:03] <seb128> no, just change gnome-session to use gdm
[01:03] <Kinnison> mdz: just deal with the fact that g-p-m emergency shutdown won't be usplashed
[01:03] <seb128> that should be enough
[01:03] <Kinnison> ?
[01:03] <mdz> #35182 is a minor bug when we don't use g-p-m as our primary method of shutting down
[01:03] <carlos> pitti: ok, thanks
[01:03] <Kinnison> mdz: okay
[01:03] <mdz> seb128: yes please
[01:04] <Kinnison> seb128: yep, do you want me to do that, or will you dump it on your list?
[01:04] <mdz> seb128: reboot as well
[01:04] <seb128> alright, doing that then ;)
[01:04] <Keybuk> Kinnison: does g-p-m still save the session when it does an emergency shutdown?
[01:04] <seb128> Kinnison: I'll do it, I know what to change that will be quick
[01:05] <Keybuk> because if it does, that's a release critical bug imo
[01:05] <Keybuk> as we offer no way to undo it
[01:05] <seb128> Keybuk: no, it has been changed
[01:05] <Kinnison> Keybuk: no
[01:05] <Keybuk> ok, cool
[01:05] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I fixed that just before I moved
[01:06] <Kinnison> Keybuk: 96-disable-session-save-on-shutdown.patch added in 2.14.3-0ubuntu2 on 8th May
[01:06] <mdz> Kamion: the gfxboot labels on the DVD are sort of unfortunate; the user will go for "Install to the hard disk" in many cases where they want "Start Ubuntu" (for ubiquity)
[01:06] <Kinnison> seb128: You're a star
[01:08] <dholbach> any objections, if I clean up  Testing/Current ?
[01:09] <Kamion> mdz: I realised that this morning, but I have trouble working out what to doabout it now
[01:09] <pitti> carlos: I fixed tuxpaint-stamps to build a POT file; that should be the last item on the page
[01:10] <carlos> pitti: ok, btw, the translations for it will come from buildd so we still need the merge today
[01:10] <pitti> :(
[01:10] <carlos> next time, we will not need it
[01:11] <carlos> anyway, next time, I guess we should export only updates from Rosetta, right?
[01:12] <dholbach> mdz: you think it'd make sense to point to the Testing wiki in the topic?
[01:12] <carlos> pitti: should I do the export daily?
[01:12] <fabbione> dholbach: what's the url for current?
[01:12] <dholbach> fabbione: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[01:13] <dholbach> it was nearly empty and from 11 days ago
[01:13] <fabbione> dholbach: thanks
[01:13] <pitti> carlos: hm, can you leave the current full daily export until the release, just in case/
[01:13] <pitti> carlos: ?
[01:13] <fabbione> dholbach: clean it up and let's start fresh
[01:13] <mdz> Kamion: just did a brainstorming session with Jane
[01:13] <dholbach> fabbione: yeah, just did it
[01:13] <mdz> Kamion: pasting our proposal
[01:13] <carlos> pitti: sure
[01:13] <carlos> pitti: but I need the exact tarball you used for the final build so we get the updates relative to that export
[01:14] <carlos> so please, tell me if you do a new upload
[01:14] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, I can't reproduce the reboot problem with the i386 iso in vmware, so I think it might be a DVD-only problem.
[01:15] <pitti> carlos: is it possible to keep all of them from now on until June 1st?
[01:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: reboot problem?
[01:15] <carlos> pitti: all the daily exports?
[01:15] <pitti> carlos: I'll modify my scripts to keep them, too
[01:15] <pitti> carlos: yes
[01:15] <carlos> sure
[01:15] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes, after casper-md5check finishes, it just continues booting on the dvd.
[01:15] <carlos> the removal is done by hand
[01:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok
[01:15] <carlos> until we move into production the script
[01:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: on my CD test in vmware, it works correctly as well
[01:16] <mdz> I'll check on the DVD
[01:16] <carlos> but anyway, I was planning to store them at people.ubuntu.com as a backup
[01:17] <Kinnison> ogra: since there's no point me doing this broken patch for hal, you may as well go ahead with your own hal package
[01:18] <ogra> ok
[01:19] <mdz> ogra: what are you doing with hal/
[01:19] <Kinnison> mdz: as per the patch quoted earlier, he's adding a hwdb button to hal-device-manager I think
[01:19] <ogra> mdz, adding the hwdb button back
[01:20] <mdz> ogra: ok
[01:22] <mdz> Kamion: what's a good test case language which is on the DVD but not the CD?
[01:25] <mdz> Mithrandir: are you taking care of the g-p-m reconfiguration issue with ubiquity?
[01:25] <mdz> Mithrandir: (I've put your name next to it on DapperReleaseRadar)
[01:25] <Mithrandir> mdz: I uploaded that two hours or so ago
[01:25] <Mithrandir> mdz: I can test it once we have images too, sure.
[01:25] <mdz> oh, missed it
[01:26] <mdz> Mithrandir: should be testable by doing an upgrade on the current daily, yes?  I'll do that
[01:26] <Mithrandir> mdz: thanks
[01:28] <Keybuk> ok, hopefully that makes bzr "installable" now
[01:28] <Keybuk> bzr-doc was NBS
[01:30] <Riddell> Mithrandir: I know splash down doesn't work in all situations yes
[01:38] <mdz> Keybuk: I had already reminded jbailey about -v by private mail ;-)
[01:38] <mdz> Mithrandir: casper binaries don't seem to be published yet
[01:38] <mdz> I'll test later on
[01:39] <j^> is fontrendering in evince still broken? i.e. http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/att_klein_wired.pdf does not work here with evince, works with xpdf though
[01:39] <Kamion> mdz: install CD or live CD?
[01:40] <mdz> Kamion: preferably both
[01:40] <Kamion> mdz: (though of course the live filesystems are still identical on the live CD and the DVD; we never got round to fixing that)
[01:40] <mdz> Kamion: we never got round to adding that feature ;-)
[01:40] <Kamion> mdz: the i386 install CD has all languages on it, as far as I can see
[01:40] <mdz> oh
[01:40] <Kamion> the i386 live CD has en zh bn de fr
[01:41] <Keybuk> mdz: heh, public humiliation also serves as a reminder for others ;)
[01:42] <mdz> Kamion: i386 DVD d-i English install in VMWare went fine
[01:42] <Kamion> yay for working DVDs at last
[01:46] <mdz> j^: looks fine in evince here
[01:46] <sladen> here do missing multimedia mime-types/file extensions og?
[01:46] <j^> mdz first page is fine here, but fails on page 2
[01:46] <mdz> j^: doesn't fail here
[01:47] <seb128> what is the issue?
[01:47] <j^> seb128 http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/att_klein_wired.pdf
[01:47] <seb128> mdz, Kinnison: gnome-session using gdm uploaded
[01:47] <j^> fonts do not render starting on the second page here
[01:47] <mdz> j^: that is a URL; he asked for a description of the problem
[01:47] <mdz> seb128: thanks, I will update DRR
[01:47] <j^> mdz one thing at a time :)
[01:48] <seb128> j^: that PDF displays fine for me
[01:48] <j^> seb128 for some time now evince can only handle some pdfs here
[01:48] <j^> any idea what could be the problem?
[01:49] <seb128> "can only handle some pdfs here"
[01:49] <seb128> it's as clear as "doesn't work"
[01:49] <mvo> Kamion, mdz: dvd-install looks good on my system 
[01:49] <j^> seb128 the text shows up as random garbage
[01:49] <seb128> do you get an error? does you box explode? does it has weird color? does it ... ?
[01:50] <seb128> j^: could you run "pdffonts att_klein_wired.pdf" and copy that to pastebin.com ?
[01:50] <mdz> j^: try it in a pristine environment (live CD)
[01:51] <seb128> might be some font you installed which get picked by fontconfig
[01:54] <j^> seb128 oh you are right, i had some fonts in ~/.fonts removing them it works
[01:54] <seb128> :)
[01:54] <j^> gnome-font-view displays the font without problems though
[01:55] <seb128> the issue is not the font I think
[01:55] <seb128> it's that the font doesn't ship the glyph required for the pdf
[01:55] <seb128> glyphs required
[01:56] <mvo> live-dvd (i386) looks good too 
[01:57] <sladen> seb128: PDF's should embed the font unless it's one of the standard 14
[01:57] <seb128> sladen: that's not an evince issue what PDFs do or not
[01:57] <sladen> seb128: is a corrupted embedded font?
[01:58] <seb128> I've no idea, ask j^
[01:58] <seb128> he had an issue due to a font he installed to ~/.fonts on his dapper
[01:59] <j^> it was Times.ttf from apple
[02:00] <infinity> Keybuk: Did you already remove bzr-doc from the seeds when cleaning up the archive mess?
[02:01] <infinity> Keybuk: (I was going to do so earlier, but the bzr bug at my homework)
[02:02] <infinity> s/at/ate/
[02:03] <Keybuk> I did
[02:03] <ogra> pitti, ping
[02:03] <pitti> ogra: ?
[02:04] <Mithrandir> oh, 32 bit sucks so much
[02:04] <ogra> pitti, at which point is the lpi patch added to hal ? seems my button patch isnt liked by it and the only thing i can see touching the glade file is lpi
[02:04] <ogra> but it has no number and i dont see it while testbuildind
[02:04] <ogra> *testbuilding
[02:06] <pitti> ogra: debian/patches/lpi.patch ?
[02:06] <ogra> yeah
[02:06] <ogra> i dont see it in the build process at all 
[02:06] <pitti> ogra: they are applied asciibetically
[02:06] <ogra> oh, k, thanks 
[02:06] <ogra> then they need to be before the numbered patches i guess
[02:07] <pitti> ogra: see /msg
[02:07] <ogra> yep
[02:17] <dholbach> mvo: how ok are you with  http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/lpi.patch ? launchpad-integration on the live cd is busted without it.
[02:19] <seb128> dholbach: did we get a bug about that?
[02:19] <dholbach> seb128: the bug just occured to me
[02:19] <dholbach> seb128: and that's the quick fix I wrote
[02:20] <dholbach> seb128: I'm sure mvo can fix that more elegantly :-p
[02:20] <seb128> k
[02:22] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: have you changed splashdown so initscripts no longer read from the correct tty?
[02:23] <dholbach> pressing enter on the "remove disc from try, press enter when you're done" message didn't shut down my box - did anybody else have that issues too?
[02:23] <dholbach> (amd64)
[02:23] <mdz> mvo: did you see Subject: Results: upgrade from Breezy using update-manager
[02:23] <mdz>  ?
[02:23] <Mithrandir> dholbach: yes, I see it on i386 in vmware.
[02:24] <mdz> dholbach: shutdown or reboot?
[02:24] <dholbach> mdz: shutdown
[02:24] <mdz> hmm, haven't tried that
[02:24] <Mithrandir> dholbach: does Alt-F7 RET fix it for you?
[02:24] <dholbach> Mithrandir: on which package should i file a bug?
[02:24] <mdz> but reboot works fine
[02:24] <dholbach> Mithrandir: lemme try
[02:24] <dholbach> *booting up again*
[02:25] <mdz> dholbach: does it print the "Will now halt" or no?
[02:25] <dholbach> mdz: will test
[02:26] <mdz> janimo: hi
[02:26] <janimo> mdz, hi
[02:26] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I haven't changed splashdown
[02:26] <mdz> janimo: how is xubuntu looking for the RC?
[02:27] <dholbach> mdz: no, doesn't print it
[02:27] <janimo> mdz, there are a few bugs to be fixed  still
[02:27] <dholbach> mdz, Mithrandir: it write it, when I press alt-f7 and then press enter
[02:27] <janimo> some fixes I have queued for upload
[02:27] <janimo> mdz, is it on Thursday or Friday?
[02:27] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: this used to work; init scripts used to read from the usplash tty.
[02:27] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: then something has broken, no?
[02:27] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: no shit. :-P
[02:28] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: since you're the guy twiddling those parts of the system, I figured asking you first would be a useful start.
[02:28] <Keybuk> init scripts will read from whatever tty they're run with
[02:28] <Keybuk> I haven't deliberately twiddled that stuff, to my knowledge
[02:28] <janimo> pitti, did you say you were ok with evince-gtk after all?
[02:29] <janimo> as the lesser evil
[02:29] <mdz> janimo: Thursday
[02:29] <pitti> janimo: it's less evil than introducing an entirely new codebase as pdf viewer, yes
[02:30] <janimo> mdz, when must uploading freeze before Thu?
[02:30] <pitti> janimo: ask for promotion in a quick moment when I'm mentally or physically absent and sneak it in :)
[02:30] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I can't see anything in either sysvinit or usplash's recent changelog that would break it
[02:30] <Keybuk> they're all minor changes
[02:30] <janimo> pitti, yay!
[02:30] <mdz> janimo: nowish
[02:30] <Keybuk> are you sure this ever worked?
[02:30] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: yes, I'm quite sure.
[02:30] <mdz> janimo: I sent mail to debian-devel-announce about this last week
[02:30] <dholbach> Keybuk: I'm quite sure it used to work.
[02:31] <janimo> mdz, I saw that mail but also quite some uploads this morning
[02:31] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: has it worked since we've had usplash running to the end of the shutdown sequence?
[02:31] <mdz> janimo: er, ubuntu-devel-announce
[02:31] <pitti> mdz: are you fine with uploading new langpacks tonight?
[02:31] <dholbach> "If you care about Ubuntu uploads."
[02:31] <janimo> mdz, do all uploads need explicit permission and then are ok?
[02:31] <pitti> mdz: (after thorough tests, of course)
[02:31] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: with the reusplash change?  Afaik, yes.
[02:31] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: well, to usplash since then there's just boring artwork changes
[02:31] <Keybuk> and to sysvinit, only initscripts changes
[02:32] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: at least, I've seen the "please remove disc and press enter" message in usplash.
[02:32] <mdz> janimo: we are uploading for showstoppers (DapperReleaseRadar) and some trivial and safe fixes
[02:32] <Keybuk> so I can't see anything that would break it
[02:32] <mdz> pitti: yes; are you going to flush -update as well?
[02:33] <pitti> mdz: yes, they have always been empty in development release uploads
[02:33] <pitti> for the sake of minimizing space requirements on CDs
[02:33] <mdz> oh, i didn't realize
[02:33] <dholbach> Ok, I let the amd64-live-cd-erase-disk-install running, while I go out with the dog and get some lunch
[02:33] <dholbach> see you later
[02:35] <janimo> pitti, I have synced xubuntu-system-tools up to g-s-t latest, and cleaned up the diff.gz, all is in debian/patches. This also is a lesser evil than a another gui netconfig app, can this please be promoted while you are not watching?
[02:35] <tseng> haha
[02:36] <pitti> janimo: if you are content with the stability and functionality of evince-gtk, well, blimey, go ahead
[02:37] <ogra> mdz, when was a preview button added to g-s-s ? (i dont have one (and i didnt add the one you found to intrusive))
[02:37] <mdz> ogra: it displays in a small window
[02:37] <janimo> pitti, so I put the MIRs back in the wiki or just ask Scott or Colin to promote?
[02:37] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: if you choose shutdown from gdm, what is the tty initscripts will read from if you use "read"?
[02:37] <mdz> ogra: is that hal patch ready for review?
[02:37] <ogra> mdz, they want fullscreen preview triggered by a button as x-s-s had
[02:37] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: absolutely no idea
[02:37] <mdz> ogra: that will not happen for dapper
[02:38] <Keybuk> at a guess, they read from /dev/console
[02:38] <pitti> janimo: I'll change them
[02:38] <janimo> pitti, ok thanks a lot
[02:38] <ogra> mdz, i seem to be to dumb or cdbs doesnt like me, seems i cant even add one line to the DeviceManager.py and make it apply accordingly ... :/ working on it
[02:38] <Kamion> mdz: the patch in 40692 looks reasonable; can I upload that?
[02:38] <Kamion> bug 40692
[02:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40692 in yaboot "No boot with 1.3.13-4.1ubuntu4" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40692
[02:38] <ogra> mdz, yes, thats how i understood it :)
[02:39] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: otherwise, if I were to make an uninformed guess, they'd read from tty7 because that's the tty that gdm issues the shutdown request from
[02:39] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[02:39] <mdz> Keybuk: could you help ogra get his patch to apply?
[02:40] <pitti> janimo: btw, what would be so wrong about just taking evince for xfce? do the gnome libs impose so much overhead?
[02:40] <Keybuk> mdz: yes
[02:40] <mdz> thanks
[02:40] <Keybuk> ogra: mail me the patch and I'll look into it after lunch
[02:41] <janimo> pitti, not counting startup time (extra 30 libs) there are a few megs of RAM while running
[02:41] <ogra> Keybuk, i dont even get this one working as zzz_hal_button.patch: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14464
[02:41] <janimo> pitti, plus esd gconf and g-vfs daemons started
[02:42] <janimo> plus as seen recenlty while abiword temporarily got gnome deps for a few days >50M on the CD
[02:42] <janimo> that means quite a lot of language packs :)
[02:42] <pitti> ogra: how did you create the patch? relative to lpi.patch?
[02:43] <ogra> pitti, cdbs-edit-patch zzz_add_hwdb_button.patch
[02:43] <pitti> ogra: btw, you might find http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/cdbstpatch useful for editing hal patches (cdbs+tarball.mk)
[02:43] <pitti> ogra: cdbs-edit-patch doesn't work with tarball.mk
[02:43] <ogra> eek
[02:43] <ogra> ok
[02:43] <pitti> yes, it's something I wanted to improve since long ago...
[02:43] <pitti> ogra: that script is just a thin wrapper around dbs-edit-patch which makes it a little more comfortable
[02:43] <ogra> uuhh, shudder ...
[02:44] <ogra> yep, i see it
[02:44] <ogra> thanks a lot, that will help :)
[02:46] <ogra> *sigh*
[02:46] <ogra> pitti, doesnt work ... 
[02:46] <ogra> Applying patch desktop-POTFILES.patch ... successful.
[02:46] <ogra> Applying patch hdm-python2.4.patch ... failed!
[02:46] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages/hal-0.5.7$
[02:47] <Mithrandir> why don't you just use a revision control system?  There's this quite neat system called bazaar I've heard about..
[02:48] <mdz> Riddell: opinions on bug #45004 and bug #43949?
[02:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45004 in kdebase "konqueror :filebrowser profile only available" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45004
[02:48] <ogra> Mithrandir, doesnt really help me now :)
[02:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43949 in kdebase "Konqueror View Mode Toolbar Icons" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43949
[02:51] <Riddell> mdz: 45004 looks like a problem with not having kubuntu-default-settings involved, so that's a valid issue
[02:51] <mdz> Riddell: these two bugs were referenced in Subject: Konqueror profiles removed, why this? on ubuntu-devel
[02:53] <Riddell> 43949 is part of SimplifyKDE and can be reverted by removing kubuntu-default-settings
[02:53] <Riddell> mdz: I'll read up on and reply to that thread
[02:53] <Riddell> mdz: do we need to get approval before uploading packages now?
[02:54] <mdz> Riddell: if it's not on DapperReleaseRadar, yes
[02:55] <mdz> Riddell: if you have a hit list for the RC, please share it
[02:56] <ogra> pitti, any idea ? 
[02:57] <Riddell> mdz: new docs upload just about to happen, I'll fix 45004 in kdebase, I want to check the KDE timezone change module to make sure it's working correctly
[02:57] <pitti> ogra: ah, hdm-python.patch uses -p0, just fix it to use -p1
[02:57] <ogra> ok
[02:57] <mdz> Riddell: docs OK; what's required to fix 45004?
[02:57] <seb128> mdz: "Update path in gnome-panel" (for the book item) is done since this morning
[02:58] <mdz> Riddell: and what's the issue with the timezone change module?
[02:59] <mdz> seb128: thanks, will update the page
[03:00] <seb128> np
[03:00] <Riddell> mdz: 45004 add back the file apps/konqueror/profiles/filemanager
[03:00] <mdz> Riddell: why was it removed?
[03:00] <janimo> mdz, FYI https://launchpad.net/people/xubuntu-team/+subscribedbugs   . I marked those I consider important for the release major and are at the top
[03:01] <Riddell> mdz: for timezone it was copying a file to /etc/localtime when it should be creating a symlink (I think)
[03:02] <Riddell> mdz: we removed some old profiles from konqueror that KDE's usability people said were unused and unnecessary, by the looks of that bug it seems we removed one or two important ones too
[03:02] <jono> hey
[03:02] <jono> what is matthew east's nick?
[03:02] <Riddell> jono: mdke 
[03:02] <jono> mdke: ping!
[03:02] <jono> thanks Riddell
[03:03] <mdz> janimo: do you think you can fix them all today?
[03:04] <janimo> mdz, may 3 of them
[03:04] <mdz> Riddell: /etc/localtime should be a copy, not a symlink
[03:04] <janimo> unlikely all (although one is not confirmed)
[03:04] <janimo> s/may/maybe/
[03:05] <janimo> mdz, one is fixed locally I was going to wait upstream's opinion, but otherwise it's ready for upload
[03:06] <tepsipakki> localtime is a symlink on every machine that I've installed..
[03:06] <janimo> pitti, did you see my question 20 min ago re xubuntu-system-tools and its not being very evil?
[03:06] <mdke> jono: I'm busy at work atm, can you email? I'll respond when I can
[03:06] <mdz> it's a copy on my laptop and a symlink on my desktop
[03:07] <mdz> Riddell: ok to fix
[03:07] <mdz> Riddell: (the profile thing)
[03:07] <pitti> janimo: oh, I misread it as evince-gtk
[03:07] <mdz> Riddell: if it's copying over a symlink and clobbering the destination, that's serious and worth fixing too
[03:07] <Riddell> I have a symlink in /etc/localtime, so maybe kde makes a symlink when it should copy
[03:08] <mdz> Riddell: <mdz> it's a copy on my laptop and a symlink on my desktop (both Ubuntu)
[03:08] <Kamion> the installer makes it a symlink
[03:08] <jono> mdke: sure :)
[03:08] <janimo> pitti, I gave it the same treatment as latest evince-gtk (based on same orig.tgz as g-s-t and debian/pactches dir, cleaned up diff.gz)
[03:08] <Riddell> mdz: oh, strange
[03:08] <janimo> pitti, so it is only the rules/control different and one extra patch vs g-s-t
[03:09] <pitti> janimo: hrmng
[03:09] <janimo> pitti, and this is a lesses evil again, a while back I did not pursue MIRing gnetswitch since I found this
[03:09] <janimo> as gnetswitch was originally planned as the UI network configurator
[03:10] <Kamion> if you make /etc/localtime a copy then you need to be sure that the copy will be refreshed from the correct place when the timezone data in /usr/share is updated
[03:10] <janimo> but since it's totally new and less mature than g-s-t...
[03:10] <Kamion> I don't believe any maintainer script deals with that at the moment
[03:11] <pitti> janimo: bah, I really don't like it, but if you need it, so be it
[03:11] <janimo> pitti, well the users need it mostly, I have DHCP :). Thanks a lot :)
[03:12] <janimo> great, with this xubuntu users will hopefully only need the cmdline for adding a printer.
[03:20] <janimo> mdke: hi, re xubuntu-docs upload. You said the translations are in rosetta, and I need to make a new upload of the package right?
[03:20] <mdz> Kamion: one difference between my laptop and my desktop is that I have on several occasions used g-s-t to set the time zone on my laptop
[03:24] <zul> hey
[03:26] <Kamion> mdz: sounds like that would do it
[03:26] <mdz> Riddell: the current kubuntu live ISOs seem to be oversized
[03:26] <Riddell> mdz: I've changed the seeds, I'll ask for a rebuild once new docs are in
[03:28] <ogra> meh, edubuntu live i386 exploded as well with yesterdays build ... :(
[03:29] <ogra> mdz, hal uploaded
[03:29] <mdz> Riddell: i was just testing ubiquity under kubuntu, and while the installation progress bar is running, I get a dialog "A new medium has been detected" about the filesystem it just created
[03:30] <mdz> Riddell: known bug?
[03:30] <Riddell> mdz: not known, I've not had any reports of that, I did see if myself once a number of weeks ago but never since then
[03:30] <mdz> Riddell: this is under vmware
[03:31] <Riddell> it wouldn't be hard to turn off kded mediamanager to be on the safe side
[03:34] <mdz> ogra: thanks
[03:34] <Keybuk> ogra: your patch applies now?
[03:35] <ogra> Keybuk, yes, apparently tarball.mk doesnt work at all with cdbs-edit-patch, pitti has a special script for such packages
[03:35] <Keybuk> indeed it doesn't
[03:35] <Kamion> Riddell: it's known, you left a comment about it :P
[03:35] <Keybuk> it's on my list of "reasons I hate cdbs"
[03:35] <Kamion> I see it all the time
[03:35] <Keybuk> I think it's number 18,294
[03:35] <ogra> hehe
[03:36] <seb128> it's on my list of why I don't like tarball.mk :p
[03:36] <ogra> with the script its fine (as long as all prevoius patches apply :) )
[03:36] <Keybuk> oops, sorry, 181,294
[03:36] <Keybuk> ;)
[03:44] <BenC> Kamion: ping
[03:44] <BenC> mdz: ping
[03:44] <Kamion> BenC: hi
[03:44] <BenC> Kamion: when are you planning a d-i upload?
[03:45] <mdz> BenC: hi
[03:45] <mdz> sfllaw: awake?
[03:45] <BenC> mdz: hey, any word from Mark about his ipw3945 problem?
[03:45] <Kamion> BenC: later today, for sparc; why?
[03:45] <mdz> BenC: last I heard it magically started working again
[03:45] <BenC> mdz: good, and weird...hopefully it was just a fluke :)
[03:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: I have just seen the problem with the casper eject prompt on a Kubuntu i386 CD
[03:46] <Mithrandir> mdz: yeah, I'm just not sure what the cause is.
[03:46] <BenC> Kamion: I have a new kernel upload that affects sparc (enables sound and framebuffer i2c)...it's not required for install, but does d-i affect livecd?
[03:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: that is, when it changed.
[03:47] <mdz> Riddell: have you ever seen this happen?  casper displays the prompt via usplash to press enter, but doesn't respond when you do
[03:47] <mvo> mdz: can I please upload a new notification-daemon? it fixes the ugly bubbles for bottom panels (bug #45632), a explaination is in my last bug comment, the debdiff is linked there too
[03:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45632 in notification-daemon "Short names in notification area render incorrectly" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45632
[03:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: this never happens to me on ubuntu/i386
[03:47] <Kamion> BenC: no, but it should be in sync with the newest kernel
[03:47] <BenC> Kamion: here...
[03:47] <BenC>   * powerpc64: Enable HUGETLB
[03:47] <BenC>   * x86,amd64: Build-in rtc and genrtc on all but the 386 kernel.
[03:47] <BenC>   * sparc: Enable CONFIG_FB_RADEON_I2C and CONFIG_SND_ALI5451.
[03:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: I've reproduced it with ubuntu/i386 in vmware.
[03:47] <BenC> that's the new kernel changelog
[03:47] <mdz> mvo: ok
[03:47] <mvo> mdz: thanks
[03:48] <Kamion> BenC: rtc> have you removed the rtc-modules udeb?
[03:48] <BenC> the rtc is the only thing that really affects d-i, but mainly because the rtc module udeb disappears
[03:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: seems to be reading from vt7 for some reason
[03:48] <Kamion> (it was in universe anyway)
[03:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: is there a bug report open about this yet?
[03:48] <Kamion> BenC: I don't think we use rtc any more in d-i anyway; that's why the udeb was in universe
[03:49] <Mithrandir> mdz: not that I know of, no.
[03:49] <Lure> mdz: I can confirm casper problem with yesterday's Kubuntu Live CD
[03:49] <Lure> mdz: it happens only after ubiquity install, but works if I just used live CD
[03:49] <Mithrandir> mdz: and since this used to just work without me having done anything, I haven't tested it properly.  Grr.
[03:49] <dholbach> mdz: are you fine with  http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/launchpad-integration.debdiff ?
[03:50] <Kamion> Lure: what casper problem?
[03:50] <Riddell> mdz: yes, I've seen that happen
[03:50] <mdz> Kamion: the one Mithrandir and I are discussing, I hope
[03:50] <BenC> I hate my power company :/
[03:50] <BenC> my power flicks off for all of a second atleast once a day
[03:50] <Kamion> ah
[03:51] <Lure> Kamion: ENTER after eject CD does not work after ubiquity Kubuntu istall
[03:51] <BenC> Kamion: when would be the best time to do this upload?
[03:51] <Kamion> ubiquity/kubuntu just does shutdown; it doesn't exit the session cleanly
[03:51] <Mithrandir> BenC: UPS?
[03:51] <Lure> mdz: there was a bug opened, but I though it was closed - will try to find...
[03:51] <BenC> I have one more one-liner patch that fabbione is doing/testing for PPC radeon crashes
[03:51] <Keybuk> so, I'm trying to work out how ENTER would even get to the init script
[03:51] <Kamion> Riddell tried to fix that a while back but it was more complex than expected
[03:51] <mdz> Mithrandir: I wonder if it's related to the gnome-session/g-p-m business
[03:51] <Kamion> shutdown> well, os.reboot
[03:51] <Kamion> BenC: ASAP
[03:52] <BenC> Mithrandir: I don't have a UPS on the satellite modem :/
[03:52] <fabbione> BenC: booting now
[03:52] <mdz> Keybuk: read(2)
[03:52] <BenC> Kamion: as soon as I get the patch, it's uploaded
[03:52] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: apparently, something is now switching VTs.  Something used not to.
[03:52] <Keybuk> mdz: yes, but why would read from an init script read from tty8? :)
[03:52] <BenC> fabbione: sweet, thanks
[03:52] <Riddell> dcop doesn't like being called from an app being run as another user :(
[03:52] <Kamion> because it'll be 7 hours from source accept before all the builds are finished
[03:52] <Riddell> actually that would block turning off mediamanager too
[03:52] <mdz> Kamion: I got a usplash shutdown after a ubiquity kubuntu install with the current daily
[03:52] <Kamion> Riddell: I'm pretty sure we just need to drop ids in a sane way, but we'll try it out early edgy
[03:53] <mdz> Keybuk: it's reading from /dev/console I believe
[03:53] <Keybuk> mdz: right
[03:53] <Keybuk> I'm wondering whether this has something to do with usplash getting killed and restarted by killall5
[03:53] <Kamion> mdz: all I know is that it does subprocess.call(["reboot"] )
[03:53] <mdz> Mithrandir: I think it's http://launchpad.net/bugs/35182
[03:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35182 in gnome-power-manager "Shutdown from g-p-m doesn't use uspash" [Minor,Fix committed]  
[03:53] <mdz> Mithrandir: or rather, a related bug
[03:53] <mdz> so it might be fixed with new gnome-session
[03:54] <jono> can someone take a screenshot of the logout window for me - I did have VMWare on here to take a shot of it, but I don't have it any longer
[03:54] <mdz> which should be published any day onw
[03:54] <mdz> now
[03:54] <Kamion> Riddell: (you tried it with su or kdesu or something; os.setregid()/os.setreuid() would be better - see how gtkui calls gnome-screensaver-command)
[03:54] <Mithrandir> mdz: well, I'm doing this from gdm, not gpm, though.
[03:55] <Lure> mdz: bug 41352
[03:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41352 in casper "LiveCD: Asks to press enter but doesn't react" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41352
[03:55] <Lure> mdz: last comment might give some hint
[03:56] <Lure> mdz: also bug 42938
[03:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42938 in casper "kubuntu live won't restart if ENTER pressed before door shut" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42938
[03:57] <Mithrandir> hmm
[03:57] <Mithrandir> what's responsible for restarting usplash?
[03:57] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: /etc/init.d/sendsigs
[03:57] <Keybuk> I'm wondering whether it needs a "-c" on that usplash call
[03:57] <Keybuk> oh, no, it does already
[03:57] <mdz> Mithrandir: what was the issue in 42938?
[03:58] <Mithrandir> mdz: unsure.  I think I closed it as a duplicate of 41352
[03:58] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'll try removing that -c and see if it helps.  I think that might fix it.
[03:59] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: why would that fix it?
[03:59] <ogra> dholbach, do you have any idea what size the additions to your ubuntu-docs upload were ?
[03:59] <Keybuk> without that, usplash would just draw over whatever is the active tty, no?
[04:00] <Lure> ogra: Riddell is also wondering that for Kubuntu... ;-)
[04:00] <dholbach> ogra: hum, I looked it up yesterday, it was only translations - I can't tell how much it was
[04:00] <ogra> seems it was fine until saturday
[04:00] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: yes, and which tty does the init script read from?
[04:00] <mdz> Riddell: is there a Kubuntu version of Testing/Short?
[04:00] <ogra> dholbach, the translations are in the langpacks, no ?
[04:00] <dholbach> ogra: downloading both versions from launchpad and doing a debdiff is what i'd do to test
[04:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: what was the cause of 41352, then?
[04:00] <dholbach> ogra: you better ask mdke
[04:00] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: it doesn't read from any tty, it reads from /dev/console
[04:01] <jsgotangco> looks like its mostly translations
[04:01] <Riddell> mdz: there isn't, I should make one
[04:01] <jsgotangco> the current docs don't hvae that much images 
[04:01] <BenC> mdz,Kamion: Ok, fabbione tested the one-liner for ppc/radeon and it fixes his crash
[04:01] <fabbione> confirmed that the fix works
[04:01] <BenC> I need this kernel in dapper, and it's non-abi bump and trivial
[04:03] <BenC> Kamion: btw, the rtc changes only affected i386/amd64, so if rtc is used somehow in d-i, it's only needed on those arch's
[04:03] <seb128> ogra: maybe example-contents dholbach uploaded?
[04:04] <Kamion> BenC: yeah, as far as I know it isn't anyway, it was the old backhacked-from-base-config hwclock code that we've ditched now
[04:04] <ogra> seb128, nope, thats not in edubuntu
[04:04] <dholbach> hrm, why doesn't the booting from DVD work for me ... hrm
[04:04] <ogra> but thanks for the heads up
[04:04] <ogra> it must be a change that happened on saturday
[04:04] <jono> anyone know what the ubuntu logout box program is called, and can I bring it up without selecting Log Out from the menu? I need to take a screenshot of it
[04:05] <ogra> and that apparently also affects kubuntu
[04:05] <mdz> BenC: bug#?
[04:05] <BenC> mdz: The radeon problem was noticed by fabbione, no bug
[04:06] <BenC> airlied provided the suggested fix
[04:06] <mdz> BenC: where did the 'need' come from?  a new kernel would delay this evening's candidate until tomorrow
[04:06] <Kinnison> Keybuk: maps to the foreground tty inside the kernel doesn't it?
[04:06] <fabbione> mdz: i noticed yesterday evening. It crashes badly on PB
[04:07] <Keybuk> Kinnison: in other words, it shouldn't matter a buggery what tty is actually selected
[04:07] <fabbione> mdz: i didn't open a bug.. just retested with today's images, debugged and got a fix for it
[04:07] <BenC> mdz: the need is that it crashes on his computer consistently
[04:07] <Kinnison> keybuk: probably not, no
[04:07] <marcin_> hi guys - where can I find changelogs for packages in dapper?
[04:08] <marcin_> (I mean - website - I know that there are changelogs in packages - but there is some list or something - I just forgot url)
[04:08] <fabbione> mdz:
[04:08] <fabbione> -       {0x1002, 0x4E50, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, CHIP_RV350|CHIP_IS_MOBILITY}, \
[04:08] <fabbione> +       {0x1002, 0x4E50, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, CHIP_RV350|CHIP_IS_MOBILITY|CHIP_NEW_MEMMAP}, \
[04:08] <fabbione> this is the diff
[04:08] <fabbione> it adds a flag for my card to use DRI/DRM in the correct way
[04:08] <mjg59> fabbione: It probably needs doing for all the RV350s based on what Dave was saying
[04:08] <fabbione> mjg59: yes, but he was looking into it
[04:09] <fabbione> in the meanwhile i change and fix what i can test and confirm
[04:11] <mvo> I guess fixes like http://librarian.launchpad.net/2388364/fix_changelog.patch for bug 41767 are not important enough now for a new aptitude upload?
[04:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41767 in aptitude "aptitude changelog <package without candidates> segfaults." [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41767
[04:12] <neuralis> Keybuk: do you still use a dualhead setup with your nc4020? have you used it in non-clone (actual dualhead) mode with dapper?
[04:12] <Keybuk> neuralis: not in a while
[04:13] <Keybuk> neuralis: but afaik it still works
[04:13] <neuralis> Keybuk: it does, but all video playback is broken on the external flatpanel -- cpu usage shoots to 100%, no video shown. i've been trying to chase it down for a week, still can't put my finger on it, and don't know if it's just my setup.
[04:15] <fabbione> neuralis: is that ati?
[04:15] <Keybuk> fabbione: aye
[04:15] <mdz> mvo: correct
[04:15] <neuralis> fabbione: intel 915gm
[04:16] <neuralis> fabbione: (i'm using the direct successor of keybuk's laptop, the nc4200)
[04:16] <mdz> mvo: if you are bored, run through Testing/Long ;-)
[04:16] <fabbione> so it's not ati
[04:16] <fabbione> neuralis: i would complain to sladen.. he knows i810 better than i do
[04:17] <neuralis> fabbione: will do, thanks.
[04:17] <neuralis> sladen: ---^  when you get a chance.
[04:17] <fabbione> neuralis: check also LP.. the i810 driver is not exactly in the top 10 for being good
[04:17] <mvo> mdz: I'm not yet bored ;) I going over my bugmail right now, but testing is next once I catched up
[04:18] <neuralis> fabbione: right, though it's a regression; worked fine since either hoary or warty
[04:18] <fabbione> neuralis: eh.. i know :/
[04:18] <neuralis> fabbione: LP didn't turn up anything related when i looked a few days ago
[04:18] <fabbione> neuralis: xorg 7.0 has tons of regressions compared to 6.8.2
[04:18] <neuralis> yeah, so i've found out when trying to figure this out
[04:18] <fabbione> this "let's go modular" had a price
[04:19] <fabbione> and we will pay it for a while
[04:19] <neuralis> a bunch of the regressions actually do appear to be in dualhead, though no one mentions my specific issue
[04:19] <fabbione> neuralis: bug 42731
[04:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42731 in xorg "MULTIHEAD SUPPORT META BUG" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42731
[04:19] <fabbione> and yes.. i know.. i also suffer from one of them
[04:20] <neuralis> it's not a huge deal, dualhead still works for everything except non-video playback here, but it means i have to reboot to xp to play a dvd :/
[04:20] <fabbione> neuralis: no, you can just go for -vo x11
[04:20] <fabbione> it's only xv that's affected afaik
[04:21] <fabbione> it sucks some CPU but i think the machine can cope with that for you
[04:21] <neuralis> reeeally. let me take a look.
[04:21] <fabbione> atleast afaik
[04:21] <BenC> mdz,Kamion: kernel is ready to upload
[04:21] <mdz> fabbione: when did it regress?
[04:22] <fabbione> mdz: between -22- and -23- i think
[04:22] <mdz> grrrrr
[04:22] <mjg59> The DRM update fixed various /other/ regressions
[04:22] <fabbione> WTF is wrong with sparc today
[04:22] <fabbione> i can't get a clean install without something going horribly wrong
[04:22] <BenC> mdz: it was the result of fixing another bug basically...radeon had a bad hack for ppc that broke a lot of i386 hw
[04:23] <BenC> and the drm update removed all that, in the hopes that it wasn't needed anymore
[04:23] <mdz> BenC: no other changes in the upload, and no l-r-m update needed?
[04:23] <BenC> but yeah, updated DRM fixed a crap load more than this one thing
[04:23] <BenC> nope
[04:23] <mdz> go ahead
[04:23] <BenC> it's just a straight kernel update
[04:23] <BenC> ok
[04:23] <fabbione> mdz: the real bug is in the interaction between radeonfb and dri. way more complex to fix
[04:23] <mdke> janimo: no, the translations are in the docteam repo. See my email
[04:23] <mdz> I'll be here all night anyway, I expect
[04:24] <fabbione> and now silo-installer is going downhill
[04:24] <mdke> janimo: it's all in xml, like the english
[04:24] <fabbione> WHY!!
[04:24] <fabbione> it didn't change in ages and it was working last week
[04:24] <mdz> mdke: did you get in touch with jono regarding the book chapters?
[04:24] <mvo> is it known that when I click on "set time" in the current espresso the time-admin window opens behind espresso=
[04:24] <mvo> ?
[04:25] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: hmm, -c doesn't change anything either way.  So, something is changing tty, but I'm not sure what.
[04:25] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I still don't see what effect changing the tty would have
[04:25] <mdz> mvo: I've seen that
[04:25] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: /dev/console is always the active tty
[04:25] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: and the stdin of an initscript is /dev/console
[04:25] <tritium> seb128: I don't know if it's possible at this point for you to pull in any evolution patches from 2.7.x, but evoQA tells me the exchange calendaring issues are fixed
[04:25] <neuralis> fabbione: yeah, it does appear to work, though 1.8 ghz can't keep up with fullscreen video playback :)
[04:26] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: apparently not?
[04:26] <fabbione> neuralis: it should----
[04:26] <mdz> Keybuk: switching to vt7 seems to fix it somehow
[04:26] <fabbione> AHHHHHHH
[04:26] <fabbione> ok
[04:26] <fabbione> it works
[04:26] <seb128> tritium: "the exchange calendaring issues" ... all of the bugs existing are fixed?
[04:26] <seb128> tritium: or do you speak about some particular bug?
[04:26] <BenC> BTW, everyone, 2.6.17 for edgy will be uploaded as soon as edhy opens up
[04:26] <tritium> seb128: not all, I would presume, but the ones I pointed out..
[04:27] <seb128> tritium: I backported a collection of patches from CVS some days ago, is that not good enough?
[04:27] <BenC> *edgy opens
[04:27] <seb128> tritium: which ones did you point?
[04:27] <tritium> seb128: such as, bug #40005
[04:27] <mdke> mdz, he pinged me just now, and I asked him to email me
[04:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40005 in evolution-data-server "No alarms or appointment list for Exchange calendar" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40005
[04:27] <tritium> seb128: they did not fix the issues, no.
[04:27] <fabbione> no
[04:27] <fabbione> hell
[04:27] <Keybuk> actually, does /dev/console map to the current tty?
[04:27] <seb128> tritium: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=338909 is still open
[04:27] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 338909 in Connector "No alarms or appointment list for Exchange calendar" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[04:29] <tritium> seb128: yes, I do see that.  This is what evoQA tells me, though.
[04:29] <seb128> tritium: who do you call "evoQA"? and ask them to point the CVS changelog entries for it
[04:29] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: apparently, /dev/console != stdin, since adding < /dev/console to the read call works around the problem
[04:29] <seb128> tritium: there is no way to backport a non-existant patch
[04:30] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: that's kinda kooky then
[04:30] <tritium> seb128: ok, let me look into it some more
[04:30] <Keybuk>                         if ((f = console_open(O_RDWR|O_NOCTTY)) < 0) {
[04:30] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I can always just work around it for now, but we should fix this properly for eft.
[04:30] <Keybuk>                                 initlog(L_VB, "open(%s): %s", console_dev,
[04:30] <Keybuk>                                         strerror(errno));
[04:30] <Keybuk>                                 f = open("/dev/null", O_RDWR);
[04:30] <Keybuk>                         }
[04:30] <Keybuk>                         dup(f);
[04:30] <Keybuk>                         dup(f);
[04:30] <Keybuk> is how init runs /etc/init.d/rc
[04:33] <jono> can someone send me the wallpaper without the ubuntu dapper text on it?
[04:33] <jono> I need to re-screenshot
[04:33] <Kagou> smurf, around ?
[04:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: so, apparently I can work around the casper-reads-from-wrong-tty problem by giving it /dev/console as input.  This is not the "correct" fix, but it works for me.
[04:34] <mdz> Mithrandir: perhaps arrange for the shells on tty2-6 to remain open for debugging?
[04:34] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok, sounds reasonable
[04:34] <mdz> I was about to try to hunt around and see what it actually has as stdin
[04:35] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[04:35] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I'm wondering whether casper somehow changes the console
[04:36] <bddebian> Keybuk: Thanks for all the syncs, etc!!
[04:36] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it cats a bunch of files to /dev/null and calls eject + usplash_write, so I doubt it.
[04:36] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I mean right at the start, before init is even called
[04:36] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: oh, the exec stuff you mean?
[04:36] <mdz> Keybuk: this doesn't happen consistently; seems like some sort of race
[04:37] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: that's reversed after it has mounted root and run the scripts.
[04:37] <Keybuk> just seems odd that "< /dev/console" fixes it
[04:37] <Keybuk> that implies that something has left stdin as something else
[04:38] <mdz> Riddell: the .xcf file in example-content gets opened with Krita, but Krita can't display it
[04:38] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: anyway, init is called by run-init with exec run-init ${rootmnt} ${init} "$@" <${rootmnt}/dev/console >${rootmnt}/dev/console
[04:38] <Mithrandir> so what casper has or hasn't done is irrelevant.
[04:38] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: init closes whatever it's given as stdin and stdout anyway
[04:41] <janimo> fabbione: radeon id 0x1002, 0x3150, which is RV380 does work fine without the NEW_MEMMAP flag. Mentioning to make sure it is not accidentally changed as well in the last minute
[04:42] <Riddell> mdz: kwwii looked at that but couldn't find a way to make krita like the .xcf, krita's .xcf import isn't perfect
[04:42] <mdz> Riddell: oddly, the preview looks fine
[04:42] <mdz> in konqueror
[04:43] <janimo> pitti, did you approve x-s-t? So I know when I asked for it to be promoted as I'll need to upload a new xubuntu-desktop .  thanks
[04:44] <janimo> s/asked/ask/
[04:44] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok with uploading that fix for casper, then?
[04:44] <pitti> janimo: not yet in the wiki queue, but go ahead
[04:44] <janimo> pitti, ok thanks
[04:44] <janimo> Keybuk: can you please promote evince-gtk and xubuntu-system-tools to main?
[04:45] <mdz> Riddell: on the current kubuntu daily-live, I get the "Unsupported Platform" message from the network configuration tool - I assume this will be fixed by the new base-files which changes DISTRIB_RELEASE back to 6.06?
[04:45] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes
[04:45] <mdz> Mithrandir: but let's do a build without waiting for it; I'd like to test the current round of fixes which were just published
[04:45] <Mithrandir> mdz: sure.
[04:46] <Keybuk> janimo: done
[04:46] <ogra> oh, if you kick off a live build, please do edubuntu as well (hoping the savings in hwdb-client and u-m fix the size)
[04:46] <janimo> Keybuk: thanks
[04:46] <Keybuk> pitti: mozilla-thunderbird-locale-* should be picked up by germinate automatically, yes?
[04:46] <pitti> Keybuk: I hope not
[04:47] <Riddell> mdz: changing DISTRIB_RELEASE will break that, so that should be fixed with the revert
[04:47] <Keybuk> pitti: shall I demote them all to universe then? <g>
[04:47] <pitti> Keybuk: the packages I added this morning should be in universe
[04:47] <ogra> Keybuk++
[04:47] <pitti> Keybuk: only the ones that were in main before should stay in main
[04:47] <Keybuk> pitti: ah, helps if you mention that
[04:47] <ogra> it eats a lot of unecessary space on edubuntu
[04:47] <pitti> Keybuk: the new packages from this mornign are transitional packages for universe only
[04:47] <pitti> Keybuk: sorry, and thanks
[04:47] <Keybuk> easily fixed *click*
[04:48] <mdz> Riddell: confirmed by upgrading it, thanks
[04:48] <Keybuk> c0r, anastacia is going to be japanese at the next publisher run
[04:49] <Kinnison> Keybuk: pardon?
[04:49] <mdz> Riddell: please add status comments at the left, like "[done]  something to do" as the existing items are, this makes it easier to scan
[04:49] <mdz> Riddell: (on DapperReleaseRadar)
[04:49] <jono> mdke, mdz: just sent the HTML chapters now
[04:49] <mdz> jono: where?
[04:49] <Keybuk> Kinnison: empty
[04:50] <jono> mdz: emailed
[04:50] <jono> mdz: to you and mdke
[04:50] <mdz> dholbach: ready for an example-content update?
[04:50] <dholbach> mdz: sure
[04:50] <jono> damn, it bounced back, let me stick it online
[04:52] <jono> mdke, mdz: http://jonobacon.org/files/ubuntubook-ch3-html.tar.gz and http://jonobacon.org/files/ubuntubook-ch6-html.tar.gz
[04:52] <mdz> dholbach: ^^^
[04:52] <dholbach> mdz: ok
[04:52] <mdz> jono: nice uplink
[04:52] <jono> :)
[04:52] <jono> a few notes:
[04:53] <jono> I converted these in NVU for speed. As such, the HTML is not all that great, but I simply did not have enough time to hand hack it.
[04:53] <jono> Each of the images is relative the current directory of the main HTML file.
[04:53] <mdz> dholbach: you can leave out *~ from the final package ;-)
[04:53] <jono> There is no Ubuntu stylesheet attached to the files, but I have
[04:53] <jono> used consistant H1, H2, H3 and H4 headings and standard HTML elements.
[04:53] <jono> As such, I am sure Matthew can apply a consistant HTML stylesheet to
[04:53] <jono> it.
[04:54] <Riddell> jono: are we getting the kubuntu chapter?
[04:54] <jono> Riddell: I think Jonathan Jesse is onto that one
[04:55] <Riddell> jjesse ^^ ?
[04:55] <jono> Riddell: last I heard he was getting the HTML sorted today
[04:55] <jono> the news that the chapters needed to be converted to HTML came as something of a surprise to jjesse very recently :P
[04:55] <mdke> i get to do the css for this?
[04:56] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:57] <mdz> jono: he thought someone else was doing it? or that we would ship plaintext?
[04:57] <jono> mdke: is there not a standard Ubuntu stylesheet you can just drop in ?
[04:57] <jono> mdz: I was told to convert it to HTML
[04:57] <ogra> mdke, do the translations for ubuntu-docs get split out into langpacks ? i have major probs on edubuntu (where we have only *bytes* free)
[04:57] <Riddell> ogra: they don't
[04:58] <ogra> eeek
[04:58] <ogra> !
[04:58] <mdke> ogra: no, they are in ubuntu-docs. But there wasn't anything new on saturday from us
[04:58] <ogra> the package grew by 300k 
[04:58] <mdke> only today, but it wouldn't have been as much as 4 MB
[04:58] <jono> mdz: I can knock up a stylesheet if you like
[04:58] <ogra> (on sat.)
[04:58] <jono> mdz: I didnt create one as I though that one may have existed already
[04:58] <mdz> mdke: is there an existing one we can use verbatim?  or give to jono to tweak?
[04:58] <jono> oops, I meant that for mdke
[04:59] <mdz> jono: perhaps the one from the website would work?
[04:59] <mdke> mdz: yeah, looking at it it won't be too hard. I can probably do it
[04:59] <jono> its full of standard headings, so should be OK
[04:59] <mdz> jono: there is a /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/ubuntu.css
[04:59] <mdke> (this evening)
[04:59] <Kamion> mdz: oops; can I upload installation-guide to change 6.04 to 6.06 or 6.06 LTS or something slightly more accurate? :)
[04:59] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[04:59] <jono> mdke: just keep an eye onthe H4 headings for the notes, they are indented a little
[05:00] <Kamion> 6.06 LTS should be fine everywhere in fact
[05:00] <mdke> jono: the html will need some slight tweaks. If you want to do it yourself, you'd save me a lot of time. You can use the stuff in /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home
[05:00] <iwj> FFS, this .co.uk cookie security problem has been known upstream since _at least 2004_.
[05:01] <ogra> iwj, yes, thats an old one
[05:01] <ogra> wasnt that fixed ages ago ? 
[05:01] <iwj> No, it seems not !
[05:01] <ogra> bah
[05:01] <jono> mdke: what kind of tweaks? do you just want me to use ubuntu.css ?
[05:02] <ogra> i thought the mozilla guys offered a fix back then
[05:02] <mdz> iwj: what are you working on at the moment?
[05:03] <Kamion> mdke: when installation-guide 20060102ubuntu6 is available (just uploaded), could you update doc.ubuntu.com to that?
[05:03] <iwj> mdz: I've got a list of 5 unpleasant firefox bugs I'm trying to either nail or decide to ignore.
[05:03] <mdz> iwj: if you could review 'Georgian Font/Language Support Issue/ttf-freefont and "D" letter confusion' and see if there's a low-risk fix, that'd be appreciated
[05:03] <iwj> I think I'm going to have to punt on the cookie one.  No sane patch upstream and anyway it feels like fragility to me.
[05:03] <mdke> jono, yes, and add the three divs that you see at the top of index.html
[05:04] <mdke> (masthead, mastwrap, content)
[05:04] <jono> mdke: ok
[05:04] <mdke> Kamion: yes, i'll try
[05:04] <Kamion> thanks
[05:05] <mdz> iwj: my gut feeling is that what they really need is for these fonts to be added to ubuntu-desktop, but it's too late for that
[05:05] <mdz> they can have whatever font preferences they want via language-support-ka though
[05:06] <iwj> mdz: You mean Malone 45898 ?
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45898 in ttf-freefont "2 Georgian letters are confused. You can Notice that from the screenshot." [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45898
[05:07] <mdz> iwj: that sounds like the same issue, but I was referring to the ubuntu-devel thread
[05:07] <ogra> Kamion, is ship-live really needed ? seems thats the issue for edubuntu live
[05:09] <Kamion> ogra: did you not see my comment about that to you some days ago?
[05:09] <ogra> nope
[05:09] <iwj> mdz: Err.  I don't seem to have that thread here but my feed of ubuntu-devel seems up to date.
[05:09] <ogra> here ? 
[05:09] <Kamion> yes
[05:10] <Kamion> 11:42 Kamion          ogra: I'm just guessing, but I suspect you might want to
[05:10] <Kamion>                       drop some bits of ship-live on non-powerpc ;-)
[05:10] <Kamion>                       ogra: your merges from Ubuntu seeds look weird, btw -
[05:10] <Kamion> 11:44 Kamion          they never seem to actually show the merged revisions in
[05:10] <Kamion>                       'bzr log', unlike merges done by other people
[05:10] <Kamion>                       ogra: anyway, I wouldn't have merged ship-live yet except
[05:10] <Kamion> 11:45 Kamion          that I needed to merge seeds for the kernel ABI change,
[05:10] <Kamion>                       so sorry if that overflows stuff for you
[05:10] <ogra> ah
[05:10] <Kamion> (sorry about the horrible formatting, I'm pasting from the HTML IRC logs)
[05:10] <ogra> thanks !!
[05:10] <ogra> i guess the same goes for Riddell then
[05:11] <Kamion> ogra: ship-live is there so that people installing on systems where the installer can't manage network access can have a chance of later setting it up
[05:11] <jono> mdke: ok, moved them over to the CSS - do you want me to mail you them?
[05:11] <Kamion> ogra: I can see that it might perhaps not be appropriate for Edubuntu, but I do not think the same goes for Kubuntu
[05:11] <ogra> yep, i understand that
[05:11] <Kamion> Kubuntu is a mass-market system; Edubuntu is not
[05:11] <Kamion> and many of the things in ship-live are popular in areas where Kubuntu is also popular
[05:11] <Kamion> (e.g. ISDN)
[05:12] <ogra> but Riddell was searching for the cause of his oversizedness as well :)
[05:12] <iwj> Hmm, my last mail from ubuntu-devel-bounces was at 2006-05-22 14:57:38 BST, a bit over an hour ago.
[05:12] <iwj> But I'm getting other mail from esperanza.
[05:13] <ogra> thats my prob, i dont want do drop stuff like isdn ... i think i'll hope for the hwdb-client and update-manager pngcrush fixes to hit the archive and hope that gains us enough in size
[05:13] <iwj> mdz: Doesn't seem to be at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-May/thread.html.
[05:13] <mdke> jono: well i'm not really in charge of this, but if you want me to check it, I can do so
[05:13] <Riddell> looking at germinate ship-live is < 3MB, kubuntu CDs have jumped more than 10MB since yesterday
[05:13] <jono> ahhh ok
[05:13] <jono> is dholbach looking after them ?
[05:13] <ogra> wow, i only have ~4M to sort it seems
[05:13] <mdke> jono, i guess so
[05:14] <mdke> I've never been involved in the book
[05:14] <mdke> except for the reviewing bit
[05:14] <mdke> dholbach: the book is going in example-content, right?
[05:15] <dholbach> mdke: yes
[05:15] <jono> ok, files sent
[05:16] <jono> let me know if anything needs poking with a stick :)
[05:17] <iwj> infinity: mdz has just asked me to look at what appears to be 45898.  Are you happy for me to reassign it to me ?  (I know nothing about Georgian but if I can manage to see the ubuntu-devel thread about it I can probably sort it out.)
[05:18] <mdke> jono, you need to include the css file with the html, the absolute path won't work when the package that provides that path isn't installed
[05:18] <mdke> either that, or example-content will have to depend on ubuntu-docs
[05:19] <jono> mdke: ahhh I see, dholbach, are you ok adjusting the stylesheet path or do you want me to resend?
[05:19] <mdz> iwj: looks like it was probably held for moderation; I've forwarded it to you
[05:20] <dholbach> jono: I can do that
[05:20] <jono> dholbach: thanks
[05:21] <iwj> mdz: Oh, right, thanks.
[05:22] <mdz> jono: received, thanks
[05:25] <iwj> I'm afraid I don't know how the localisation machinery deals with font preferences.  But if the fonts our Georgian is recommending aren't in ubuntu-desktop then at the very least we should fix the wrong letter !
[05:25] <iwj> mdz: ^
[05:25] <mdz> iwj: if you can do that, great
[05:26] <mdz> Kamion: speaking of the installation guide, its information about disk space requirements was wrong the last time I looked
[05:26] <iwj> mdz: I'll look into it.
[05:27] <mdz> ogra: you sent your followups to -devel-announce when they should have gone to -devel
[05:27] <mdke> jono, just skimming through the chapters, i see you've used links to the wiki for extra information, rather than to the official docs :-(
[05:27] <mdke> jono: what's the reason for that?
[05:27] <jono> what official docs?
[05:27] <jsgotangco> help.ubuntu.com
[05:27] <ogra> mdz, ctrl-l in evo should use the reply-to ... i resent it manually already and cancelled the post to u-d-a
[05:28] <jono> is the information from the wiki available elsewhere?
[05:28] <jono> I didnt think it was
[05:28] <iwj> mdz: BTW, I'm going to pull out that directory unifier.  I think the cure is worse than the disease.
[05:28] <mdke> jono: for example for DVDs, http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/video.html#dvdplayback
[05:28] <Kamion> mdz: if you can point me to the places that are wrong, they'll be easy to fix
[05:28] <Kamion> it talks about disk requirements in a few places
[05:28] <Keybuk> ogra: Ctrl-L is explicitly "Reply to List, ignoring From/Sender/Reply-To/etc." :)
[05:28] <iwj> mdz: In particular, I hadn't realised that packages existed which would make things fail to install later if the directories were unified.
[05:29] <ogra> Keybuk, meh ... :)
[05:30] <iwj> JOOI, any PPC users here who happen to be reading: does your firefox generally start ?  I'm assuming `yes' because you're not screaming at me to fix it.
[05:31] <mdz> Kamion: http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/ch02s05.html
[05:31] <Kamion> mdz: ok, will fix that one
[05:31] <Kamion> I'd missed it because the figures are hidden in an entity
[05:31] <mdz> iwj: what will the fix look like?
[05:32] <Kamion> mdz: the memory requirement is correct for d-i so I'll leave that alone
[05:33] <ogra> iwj, since when should that be broken ? 1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.1-1ubuntu12  runs fine here (but most of my system is one or two weeks outdated)
[05:33] <mdz> Kamion: it's sort of misleading since it's quite insufficient for the default install
[05:33] <iwj> mdz: The Georgian fix ?  A new font package, ttf-freefont AFAICT.
[05:33] <ssam> iwj, firefox is working for me on powerpc
[05:33] <mdz> iwj: I mean firefox
[05:33] <mdz> iwj: I'm happy for the wrong glyphs in freefont to be corrected
[05:33] <iwj> mdz: The `fix' will be just to let the plugin directory confusion continue.
[05:34] <iwj> As in, to remove completely the new code which attempts to make /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox a link to /usr/lib/firefox.
[05:34] <Kamion> mdz: I guess; I'll figure something out
[05:34] <mdz> iwj: ok, and not attempt to clean up after it? good
[05:34] <iwj> And not to add anything which attempts to un-unify them either.
[05:34] <iwj> Right.  I want to make it less complex and fragile at this stage.
[05:34] <mdz> iwj: so long as the flash and java packages in the archive work
[05:35] <iwj> mdz: I'll check that, but they'll definitely work for upgrades from Breezy.  People like you who had the unifier run from late dapper might still have trouble.
[05:35] <mdz> iwj: they need to work for fresh installs as well, of course
[05:36] <iwj> mdz: Indeed.
[05:36] <iwj> That at least is trivial :-).
[05:36] <iwj> mdz: Really, I'm just going to put it back the way it was before I tried to fix it, which has been quite well tested and the consequences are I think understood (some obscure plugins don't work right).
[05:37] <iwj> Oh dear, this debug build is _still_ compiling.
[05:38] <mvo> Kamion: do you want a patch for 46008? or is the textual description I added enough?
[05:38] <mvo> bug  46008
[05:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46008 in ubiquity "clicking on "Set Time..." opens time-admin window behind ubiquity window" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46008
[05:40] <dholbach> mdz: ubuntu-artwork is up (just now) - I update the RADAR
[05:40] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[05:40] <Kamion> mvo: I didn't think it was necessary to fix it for dapper
[05:41] <Kamion> mvo: do you?
[05:41] <mdz> mdke: I don't know what the licensing issues are for the book content, but if you and jono can agree on something we should be able to accept an update for corrections
[05:41] <Kamion> it seems irritating but not fatal
[05:41] <mvo> Kamion: it depends, the patch should be fairly trivial (one line), so if a new upload is done anyway it might be good to include it. but if not, we should probably just leave it
[05:41] <heno> mdz: high visibility, sticky keys and screenreader works. the onscreen keyboard fails completely and the magnifier must be loaded manually to work on the live CD 
[05:42] <heno> everything works on my installed system
[05:42] <Kamion> mvo: I'm hoping the upload I made earlier today is final, but if not, I think your textual description should be adequate, thanks
[05:42] <mvo> Kamion: ok, thanks
[05:42] <jono> mdz: you would need to speak to Debra about the licensing - she has dealt with it all - it is open an open content license though
[05:43] <heno> as of Thursday's daily live CD
[05:44] <mdke> mdz: it's not so much that, I submitted these ideas via my feedback questionnaire. I can only assume they were rejected
[05:44] <mdz> heno: ready for RC, then?  (i.e., nothing we can fix trivially and safely?)
[05:44] <mdz> mdke: ah
[05:45] <Kamion> dholbach: how was /rofs showing up in file names in lpi?
[05:45] <mdz> not much I can do about that, then
[05:45] <mdz> Kamion: via /proc/*/exe
[05:45] <Kamion> urgh
[05:45] <mdz> unionfs bogosity
[05:45] <mdke> mdz: quite
[05:45] <pitti> mdz: is archive freeze imminent? seb128 and I are working on a glib and bonobo bug fix ATM
[05:45] <mdz> pitti: details?
[05:45] <pitti> mdz: the panel addons crash for non-UTF-8 locales
[05:46] <pitti> mdz: and menu strings from gnome-panel itself are messed up in non-UTF-8 locales
[05:46] <mdz> raphink: please read the top of DapperReleaseRadar
[05:47] <jono> mdke: I dont think your comments were rejected, just overlooked probably
[05:47] <ogra> heno, while we're at it, nobody answered my question on the a11y list if it was supposed to work in edubuntu
[05:47] <heno> mdz: The GOK failure has been in Malone for some time. I have no idea why it works on the desktop and not on the Live CD. I email Mithrandir suggesting we remove that option from the Live CD boot
[05:47] <raphink> mdz: Riddell asked me to edit it to remove the entry for the bug I just uploaded a fix for
[05:47] <ogra> (i dont even have an idea what to do to test it)
[05:47] <jono> mdke: its been a pretty schedule for the book so some things got overlooked due to time constraints
[05:47] <heno> besides GOK is not great ...
[05:48] <jono> pretty tight schedule, that is
[05:48] <raphink> mdz: I thought that was meant as a permission
[05:48] <mdz> raphink: oh, apologies; it looked like you were adding, not removing
[05:48] <heno> ogra: do you use the same casper settings as ubuntu?
[05:48] <mdz> raphink: thanks
[05:48] <raphink> mdz: no I just removed a line :)
[05:48] <Riddell> raphink: don't remove, mark with [done] 
[05:48] <Kamion> mdz: d'oh, you reverted my change too
[05:48] <raphink> Riddell: ah right
[05:48] <ogra> heno, since i use the same casper package i'd assume so, Mithrandir could tell i think
[05:48] <raphink> so I should do it again, marking with [done] 
[05:48] <raphink> sorry for that
[05:48] <mdz> Kamion: I'm fixing
[05:49] <heno> ogra: in that case that stuff should work now
[05:49] <Kamion> ok
[05:49] <mdz> raphink: please don't; I have several changes pending in my current edit
[05:49] <heno> ogra: have you tried?
[05:49] <raphink> argh
[05:49] <ogra> heno, ok, what do i do to try and what should happen ?
[05:49] <mdz> fixing dholbach's too
[05:49] <mdke> jono, right. Well, even so, a single email to the documentation team mailing list would have improved things in terms of what documentation to link to. As for the rest of my questionnaire, naturally I don't expect you to take it into account
[05:49] <raphink> mdz: sorry I just pressed the button :(
[05:49] <raphink> mdz: :(
[05:49] <Kamion> raphink: well you should honour edit locks then
[05:49] <heno> ogra: press F5 at boot and select an option
[05:49] <ogra> ok
[05:50] <mdke> jono, if you want to do an update, feel free to have a look at my questionnaire or mail me
[05:50] <heno> ogra: with the first one you should get a different theme
[05:50] <raphink> Kamion: huh? there was no lock when I pressed
[05:50] <heno> with the third the desktop should speak to you, etc.
[05:50] <ogra> heno, ok, even though i guess that will be overridden on install by edubuntu-artwork
[05:51] <mdz> raphink: it only warns you at the top of the page; it is easy to overlook if you aren't watching for it
[05:51] <raphink> ok
[05:52] <jono> mdke: I don't have time to, its already in copyedit
[05:53] <mdz> Kamion: so it's safe to rename my .isos locally so that my next rsync works?
[05:54] <mdke> jono, yes. oh well.
[05:54] <jono> mdke: sorry
[05:55] <Kamion> mdz: yep
[05:56] <Kamion> due to the "keep previous not-built-this-time CDs around" change requested in cd-build-process I'm having to do some manual work to get rid of the -install- and -live- images
[05:56] <wasabi> I find it interesting that we use things like gksu.
[05:56] <wasabi> I didn't think X was any more secure against shatter-style things than windows.
[05:58] <BenC> wasabi: gksu runs as root...does that keep non-root apps from capturing the input sent to it?
[05:58] <wasabi> less capture and more subvert.
[05:58] <wasabi> MS just spent a whole lot of time trying to minimize thigs problem by running things in the user session without elevated privs. I thinkit's interesting that we're sort of going the other way.
[05:58] <wasabi> Unless X is in some way more secure than I think it is.
[05:59] <BenC> certain things need those privs, how else would they get it?
[06:00] <wasabi> In MS's case, they communicate with processes over sepereate mechs to do the work for them.
[06:00] <wasabi> Mostly they contact services with RPCs.
[06:00] <wasabi> For instance, the Windows Updater application, sits in the task bar, and doesn't ever run as root. Instead it contacts the Windows Update Service, which does the installs, and reports progress back.
[06:00] <wasabi> s/root/SYSTEM/
[06:01] <wasabi> Same with all the control panels.
[06:01] <BenC> our updater applet never runs as root either
[06:01] <wasabi> Does when you click on it.
[06:01] <BenC> it's the updater itself
[06:01] <dholbach> mdz: ready to upload example-content with those two chapters - right now there's still ~4M of padding to keep this space for the kubuntu chapter outstanding
[06:01] <wasabi> Yeah... MS's doesn't.
[06:01] <BenC> the applet doesn't ever, it starts an app that does
[06:01] <_ion> MS doesn't run the updater as root? :-)
[06:01] <wasabi> Okay. Well, I'm talking about the app then.
[06:01] <Kamion> heno: you want pointing devices removed on just the live CD, not install?
[06:01] <Riddell> dholbach: was that padding in before?
[06:02] <Kamion> heno: I'll see what I can do ...
[06:02] <heno> Kamion: just the boot option. It works fine on the installed system
[06:02] <BenC> wasabi: I agree that the app itself should run as root...but we don't have the mechanisms in place for perm services to handle something like that
[06:02] <BenC> shouldn't
[06:02] <dholbach> Riddell: it was added with example-content-12 (we had some other files in there before, which were removed) -- version 12 has the space it's supposed to have on the CD
[06:02] <dholbach> Riddell: does that answer your question?
[06:02] <mdz> dholbach: great, thanks
[06:02] <pitti> carlos: btw, do I still need to run the cronjob that late? last week you asked me to run it at 1600 UTC instead of the usual 1430 UTC
[06:03] <dholbach> Riddell: we dropped things like the leaflet and introducing-ubuntu, etc
[06:03] <BenC> I don't like the idea of a constant running service to handle callbacks for something that isn't used a lot
[06:03] <wasabi> The services spawn as needed.
[06:03] <heno> Kamion: thanks
[06:03] <wasabi> Believe dbus can do that just fine.
[06:03] <Kamion> heno: oh, so I can remove the boot option on both the desktop (live) CD and the alternate install CD?
[06:03] <BenC> wasabi: No, on windows, the auto-updater runs _all_ the time, as system
[06:03] <wasabi> Oh yeah, you're right. *it* does, because it updates on a schedule.
[06:03] <Riddell> dholbach: ah, that could be why the kubuntu CDs have jumped in size then
[06:03] <wasabi> There are other services similar that only run when requested.
[06:03] <carlos> pitti: until we move it into production.. yes
[06:04] <Riddell> I presume edubuntu doesn't carry example content?
[06:04] <BenC> wasabi: no, it has to run even if you don't do auto-updates
[06:04] <BenC> else "Update Windows" doesn't work either
[06:04] <ogra> Riddell, no space, nope :)
[06:04] <carlos> pitti: in fact... today, it finished at 16:28
[06:04] <ogra> edubuntu doesnt even carry its own docs since there was no space
[06:04] <BenC> it's weird that the manual updates require the auto-update service :/
[06:04] <mgalvin> mvo, dholbach: just so you are aware, i noticed that the update-manager -d stuff displays release notes... i started adding more info to DapperReleaseNotes which might be useful
[06:04] <carlos> hm, wait, I think that's UTC+1
[06:04] <wasabi> It's not weird, because they tell the service to do the work for them.
[06:04] <heno> dholbach: are you taking care of editing the book-toc file to link to the right files and such?
[06:04] <wasabi> So you can log off in the middle of an update.
[06:04] <wasabi> And so they don't run on the desktop as SYSTEM.
[06:05] <dholbach> heno: yes, did that already
[06:05] <Kamion> heno: do you happen to recall whether access=* does anything on the alternate install CD?
[06:05] <BenC> wasabi: but you have a service that is constantly running as system for no apparent reason
[06:05] <Kamion> I can't remember whether I did anything there
[06:05] <dholbach> heno: nothing fancy though
[06:05] <BenC> wasabi: atleast in our case we have an app that runs as root only on-demand
[06:05] <carlos> pitti: so yes, I think is safe to execute it after 15:45 UTC
[06:05] <wasabi> BenC: Windows Update has a reason. Let me find a better example.
[06:05] <carlos> but not before that
[06:05] <heno> Kamion: we were talking about having an option for everything, but decided against
[06:05] <Kamion> heno: alternate install CD, not live CD
[06:06] <heno> Kamion: oh, sorry
[06:06] <wasabi> BITS: Background Intelligent Transfer Service. It is a service which you can submit URLs to and it downloads the files in the background. Supports resuming etc. I think it's ap oor choice for a service, but the point remains.
[06:06] <Kamion> heno: I'm asking specifically whether we ever implemented it there - I know we implemented it in casper, but that's only desktop (live) CD
[06:06] <heno> Kamion: I would think not
[06:06] <wasabi> It is set to Manual by default, and not started. When another program requests a handle to it, it is started on demand.
[06:06] <Kamion> right, so I can remove it for both and it makes no difference right now anyway
[06:06] <wasabi> Our "update manager" service could be a dbus service which operated similarily.
[06:06] <Kamion> that's easier than inventing a conditional
[06:06] <heno> Kamion: sounds good
[06:06] <wasabi> You request a handle to it, dbus spawns it on request.
[06:07] <carlos> pitti: btw,  41644 .po files today vs. 38874 .po files we got with previous export
[06:07] <wasabi> It runs only while it's needed. Maybe it keeps running in the background applying updates.
[06:07] <BenC> sort of like esd
[06:07] <wasabi> Yup.
[06:07] <heno> the tools get installed with -desktop andcan be activated easily enough
[06:07] <pitti> carlos: crossing thumbs for today's report; I cleaned the buildd tarball, it should look really good now :)
[06:07] <wasabi> Logical Disk Manager Administrative Service: another windows serivce.
[06:07] <wasabi> It runs only when you initialize the API to mess with LVM.
[06:07] <carlos> pitti: I guess that's a good argument to do a language pack update today
[06:07] <wasabi> So the UI can contact it and request changes to the configuration.
[06:07] <pitti> carlos: yes, I planned to do that, if it's fine for mdz
[06:07] <wasabi> Anyways, there are tons of those.
[06:08] <Kinnison> Sounds similar to how dbus services activate
[06:08] <pitti> carlos: can you help me with testing today's Spanish .debs?
[06:08] <BenC> wasabi: Ok, point taken, so go implement it :)
[06:08] <carlos> pitti: yes
[06:08] <carlos> pitti: ETA ?
[06:08] <pitti> carlos: I'd guess 60 to 90 minutes
[06:08] <wasabi> =) some day I might. I'm just curious if it's a concious decision to not deal with it, or if people don't realize it's a vulnerbility, or maybe X has some magic which makes it not a vulnerbility.
[06:09] <carlos> pitti: I need to leave in one hour or so
[06:09] <carlos> pitti: is ok if I check them tonight ?
[06:09] <pitti> carlos: don't worry, I'll write a broadcast for testing 
[06:09] <carlos> ok
[06:11] <Kamion> mdz: any objection to me changing over the ISO volume labels now?
[06:13] <iwj> mdz: I've just uploaded the fixed ttf-freefont, FYI.  The debdiff is about what you'd expect (although of course the mysterious numbers in the .sfd are impenetrable).
[06:14] <Keybuk> ok, that's weird; rather than updating the file, rsync just truncated it and started again
[06:16] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I think it does that if it thinks it stands a chance of being less bandwidth
[06:19] <iwj> Keybuk: You're looking at strace ?  It might build it in memory.
[06:20] <mdz> Kamion: none
[06:20] <mdz> iwj: thanks
[06:30] <fabbione> BenC: silo works just fine. i think the partitioner hickup made it barfing.
[06:31] <fabbione> but this is a weakness we need to fix for edgy
[06:31] <BenC> fabbione: excellent
[06:31] <fabbione> BenC: tho it's quite strange.. but well
[06:32] <BenC> maybe the partion map checksum was bad...who knows
[06:32] <BenC> or maybe it had bad values and conflicted with what silo expected
[06:33] <pygi> mdz, poke?
[06:34] <mdz> pygi: yes?
[06:34] <pygi> do we have a XML-RPC interface on LP?
[06:34] <mdz> pygi: #launchpad
[06:34] <ogra> pygi, #launchpad ?`
[06:34] <pygi> ah,oki
[06:35] <mdz> Riddell: what's the prognosis for the kubuntu chapter?
[06:35] <BenC> do the buildd's use ccache?
[06:35] <Kinnison> Yes
[06:35] <BenC> good, then this kernel build should go really quickly
[06:35] <BenC> whoa, things are failing
[06:36] <Riddell> mdz: jjesse isn't responding
[06:39] <Riddell> mdke: don't suppose you have a phone number for jjesse?
[06:39] <BenC> fabbione: That I2C change on sparc caused an ABI change, but since it only affects i2c (and I doubt anything besides the kernel uses it) I am going to do a forced ignore
[06:39] <BenC> it only affects sparc too
[06:39] <janimo> Kamion: I'll file a bug for updating the xubuntu gfxboot image ok? the current one has the old colours
[06:39] <fabbione> BenC: hmmmm
[06:39] <BenC> amd64 build failure was a missing config option (asked a question during build)
[06:40] <fabbione> BenC: i suggest you prebuild the kernel, get abi and slam it in the upload
[06:40] <fabbione> BenC: without forcing the abi ignore
[06:40] <fabbione> otherwise the first person that builds a custom kernel with sparc.ignore file will not detect the abi change
[06:40] <BenC> I'll fixup git after the build is done
[06:41] <BenC> get the abi in
[06:41] <Kamion> janimo: sure
[06:41] <BenC> but I need to do this upload now
[06:41] <Kamion> janimo: /products/ubuntu-cdimage/+filebug
[06:41] <janimo> Kamion: done
[06:41] <bddebian> Hey folks, since we are getting down to the wire, anything I can do to help anyone?
[06:43] <carlos> pitti: did your report script fail ?
[06:43] <pitti> carlos: it just finished
[06:43] <fabbione> BenC: the problem is more that the sparc.ignore will exist in the final published source
[06:43] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/rosetta-buildd-diff-report.txt
[06:43] <fabbione> BenC: that's the one that people will use (or should) to build custom kernel
[06:43] <pitti> carlos: ^ wow, that looks rad!
[06:43] <carlos> pitti: ooh, right ;-)
[06:44] <carlos> pitti: ;-)
[06:44] <carlos> yeah, seems like we still miss some translation domains...
[06:44] <pitti> carlos: 8 domains, that shouldn't take long to fix any more, I guess?
[06:44] <carlos> but that's only 8 :-P
[06:44] <pitti> carlos: po4a might be a bogus one
[06:44] <carlos> pitti: no, in fact there are some of them that could be removed
[06:44] <carlos> pitti: yeah
[06:44] <pitti> carlos: don't worry, the first update packages for dapper will get them
[06:45] <carlos> I think kio-locate is also wrong, it should be kio_locate
[06:46] <bluefoxicy> pitti: ping
[06:46] <pitti> carlos: hm, ubiquity would be nice to have, though
[06:46] <pitti> hi bluefoxicy 
[06:46] <carlos> pitti: not really
[06:46] <carlos> pitti: hmm well, it's for .desktop files
[06:46] <carlos> pitti: should I approve it?
[06:47] <ogra> bddebian, fix universe :)
[06:47] <bddebian> ogra: I have been trying :-)
[06:47] <pitti> carlos: any reason to not do it?
[06:47] <carlos> pitti: well, I guess we should take all .desktop translations as using native gettext now... my fault ;-)
[06:47] <carlos> pitti: btw, discover is being exported
[06:47] <Kamion> pitti: I keep half-thinking that I'd prefer ubiquity not to be stripped
[06:47] <carlos> pitti: are you completely sure latest tarball is missing it?
[06:48] <pitti> carlos: I think po4a is valid, it seems to be translations of the tools themselves, right?
[06:48] <Kamion> it's not exactly totally outside the domain of language packs like the rest of the installer, but we don't have all the language packs on the live CD
[06:48] <bluefoxicy> mmm.  You're busy right now, I'll wait.  :)
[06:48] <pitti> Kamion: I see the point of not doing it, but wouldn't that require to not strip many other domains, too?
[06:49] <Kamion> pitti: it only applies to the desktop files ...
[06:49] <pitti> Kamion: since it re-uses other components?
[06:49] <pitti> Kamion: ah, right
[06:49] <Kamion> all the other stuff is in debconf and not stripped
[06:49] <pitti> Kamion: you'll still have the merged translations in the .desktop file
[06:49] <Kamion> I guess it's a question of whether we think it's valuable to have "Install" translated on the .desktop when nothing else is
[06:50] <Kamion> I think it may well be, given that we're presenting it as the installer and mailing it out ...
[06:50] <Kamion> pitti: ?
[06:50] <pitti> Kamion: I think the question is rather if you plan to release dapper update CDs with updated langpacks
[06:50] <carlos> pitti: ok ubiquity has been fixed
[06:50] <Kamion> pitti: oh, you don't strip out the translations from the .desktop files?
[06:50] <pitti> Kamion: no, I don't
[06:50] <Kamion> and nautilus will use those?
[06:50] <pitti> Kamion: yes, as a fallback if the mo file doesn't have translations
[06:50] <Kamion> pitti: ok, then it doesn't matter and it can keep being stripped, thanks
[06:50] <carlos> pitti: why are you using kio-locate instead of kio_locate ?
[06:51] <pitti> carlos: I don't, I guess it's a bug in some kde-i18n file
[06:51] <carlos> pitti: ok, could you confirm me that you don't have 'discover' translations from Rosetta?
[06:52] <carlos> pitti: you should have 
[06:52] <pitti> not so fast, please
[06:52] <pkern> Hi, does http://ftp-master.debian.org/rene-daily.txt work in your Gecko browser of choice? Both Firefox and Epiphany keep crashing X here on current Dapper.
[06:52] <Kamion> ogra: so, re bug 38088, do you mind the server (minimal install) option disappearing entirely, and not being able to select it in any way?
[06:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38088 in ubuntu-cdimage "edubuntu install menu should either hide "server" or have this option renamed to "minimal"" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38088
[06:52] <pitti> carlos: so, kio-locate is from the kio-locate source package, and the domain is indeed kio-locate, not kio_locate
[06:52] <ogra> Kamion, nope
[06:53] <carlos> pitti: really? the .pot file is named kio_locate.pot
[06:53] <ogra> either of the options i listed in the bug is fine 
[06:53] <pitti> carlos: the pot file is named kio_locate.pot, but the mo files are ./kio-locate/usr/share/locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/kio-locate.mo and so on
[06:53] <Kamion> unfortunately I left it too late to rename it
[06:53] <carlos> pitti: I see... weird
[06:53] <bluefoxicy> wow... looks like someone is smoking .pot o.o
[06:53] <Kamion> ogra: you said "hide it from the gfxboot menu"; it's possible (but harder) to hide it from the gfxboot menu but still leave it selectable in text mode, or for other arches
[06:53] <Riddell> pitti, carlos: do you know what the status of k3b.po is?  I'm getting complains it isn't included
[06:53] <Kamion> i.e. by typing "server"
[06:53] <ogra> Kamion, as long as it doesnt apper its fine ... either way
[06:54] <carlos> Riddell: it needs a rebuild with your patch to set the encoding to UTF-8
[06:54] <carlos> Riddell: I thought I already notify you... I guess next time, I should use mail... sorry
[06:54] <ogra> if people want a server install they can use ubuntu-server or fiddle with expert mode
[06:54] <Kamion> ogra: nobody ever tries to do a base-system-only install with an Edubuntu CD, then?
[06:55] <ogra> if he does, i'll point him to the expert mode ;)
[06:55] <Kamion> ogra: you could, but that would be pointless and a misunderstanding of expert mode
[06:55] <pitti> carlos: discover> unpacking rosetta tarball right now and checking
[06:55] <Kamion> are you aware of what expert mode does?
[06:56] <pitti> carlos: so, tuxpaint-stamps just came too late for today's tarball IIRC?
[06:56] <carlos> pitti: yeah, po4a seems to be correct, I will fix it
[06:56] <ogra> Kamion, its a while ago that i used it in debian, but cant you select the packages for installation (iirc) ?
[06:56] <pitti> carlos: you'll fix kio-locate, too?
[06:56] <carlos> pitti: yes, it came too late, it's already imported will appear tomorrow
[06:56] <carlos> pitti: it's already fixed
[06:57] <pitti> carlos: confirmed, no file 'discover*' in rosetta tarball
[06:57] <carlos> pitti: from where does thunar-media-tags-plugin come?
[06:57] <Kamion> ogra: in Debian, yes, but it has never done that in Ubuntu
[06:57] <ogra> oh, k
[06:57] <pitti> carlos: from the very same source
[06:58] <pitti> carlos: likewise for xfce4-mount-plugin and xfburn
[06:58] <Kinnison> pitti: Can you look at 44055 and tell me if the suggestion Richard has made is likely to be safe for Ubuntu?
[06:58] <Kamion> anyway, I'll remove the option; you can add 'preseed/file=/cdrom/preseed/server.seed' to the kernel command line to get a base-system-only installation
[06:58] <pitti> bug 44055
[06:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44055 in gnome-power-manager "brightness changes rapidly up/down" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44055
[06:58] <ogra> Kamion, well, then i'll live with what your time permits ... if you have time left to make it work with typing server, fine, if not, fine as well, put it on the bottom of your todo ;)
[06:58] <carlos> pitti: ok. I don't understand the 'discover' issue, all things are in place...
[06:59] <mdz> pitti: I've seen that bug
[06:59] <dholbach> ubiquity install on a USB drive is a bit hard. the partitioning part is not happy if the drives are mounted (which I can understand), people have to unmount them before installation, which was easy enough for me to do, but for some reason they got mounted again between the partitioning (gparted) step and the real parititioning
[06:59] <pitti> Kinnison: the hal side would be to add an .fdi file? do you have a direct pointer to that file?
[07:00] <pitti> carlos: the funny thing is that mapping.txt mentions discover :)
[07:00] <carlos> pitti: I need to debug that... that package has been there for a long time already...
[07:01] <pitti> carlos: hm, wait
[07:01] <pitti> carlos: the correct domain name is 'discover1', but in your mapping.txt, the domain name is 'discover'
[07:01] <pitti> carlos: bah, scratch that, I lied
[07:01] <Kinnison> pitti: Unfortunately not, I imagine it'll take a quick grobbling around in hal CVS would find it
[07:01] <pkern> Somebody here to try an URL on Dapper current w/ Gnome, with the ability to trace an X crash?
[07:02] <pitti> carlos: the *source* package is discover1, not the domain
[07:02] <pitti> carlos: 'discover' is an universe package we don't use
[07:02] <pitti> Kinnison: right
[07:02] <carlos> pitti: oh
[07:02] <pitti> Kinnison: generally, fdi files are safe if they are specific enough
[07:02] <Keybuk> I thought we still used discover for X server?
[07:03] <pitti> Kinnison: i. e. test properties for specific values like product names and such
[07:03] <pitti> Keybuk: discover1 maybe?
[07:03] <pitti>  discover1 | 1.7.15ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
[07:03] <pitti>   discover | 2.0.7-2.1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages
[07:03] <Keybuk> ah, of course
[07:03] <Keybuk> that one always confuses me
[07:04] <pitti> Kinnison: found it
[07:04] <pitti> Kinnison: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/attachments/20060514/7915a91d/hal-x31-laptop-0001.bin
[07:04] <carlos> pitti: would be possible that the xfc packages were uploaded using universe and then promoted to main ?
[07:04] <pitti> Kinnison: (that's a .patch, just badly renamed by mailman)
[07:04] <carlos> pitti: they have the .pot file and thus, they should be imported...
[07:04] <pitti> Kinnison: that looks quite safe
[07:04] <carlos> pitti: anyway, I will fix them by hand
[07:05] <pitti> carlos: indeed, very likely
[07:05] <pitti> carlos: wait
[07:05] <carlos> pitti: I mean, no upload directly to main
[07:05] <pitti> carlos: we need to reupload them anyway to get them stripped
[07:05] <pitti> janimo: ping
[07:05] <janimo> pitti: pong
[07:05] <janimo> do I need to reupload xfburn?
[07:06] <pitti> janimo: can you please do no-change uploads for xfburn, xfce4-mount-plugin, and thunar-media-tags-plugin?
[07:06] <pitti> janimo: and possibly other packages which were recently promoted without rebuilding?
[07:06] <carlos> pitti: I think those are the only ones we are missing
[07:07] <pitti> carlos: this is a nice way to catch promoted packages that need rebuilding :)
[07:07] <janimo> pitti, for xubuntu-system-tools I set the GETTEXT_DOMAIN gnome-system-tools is that ok?
[07:07] <carlos> pitti: that leaves po4a and discover as the only ones that need a manual fix
[07:07] <carlos> pitti: ;-)
[07:07] <pitti> janimo: yes, unless you changed any string
[07:07] <janimo> pitti, I did not
[07:07] <carlos> pitti: the others are alredy fixed
[07:07] <janimo> ditto for evince-gtk
[07:08] <pitti> carlos: anything you need me to do for the remaining issues?
[07:08] <Kamion> mdz: hmm, do we still have room to add build-essential/linux-headers to ship-live?
[07:08] <pitti> Kinnison: do you want me to apply that patch?
[07:08] <Kamion> mdz: I'd only added the network access stuff to date
[07:09] <ogra> ARGH !!!
[07:09] <ogra> grmbl
[07:09] <janimo> pitti, so at this point adding new .po files is not ok right?
[07:10] <carlos> pitti: no, thank you very much
[07:10] <carlos> I can fix those two
[07:10] <janimo> pitti, if dapper translations are to continue after release will we still be able to import upstream .po files?
[07:11] <dholbach> did anybody else have a md5sum problem (restricted-nic-something-di) with the daily powerpc install iso?
[07:12] <mdz> Kamion: we seem to; it's a tradeoff vs. langpacks though
[07:12] <mdz> how much does it cost us again?
[07:12] <Kamion> just noticed I still had bug 44313 open
[07:12] <Kamion> IIRC it was c. 24MB
[07:12] <jdub> mdz: do we have a policy about what constitutes 'desktop' and 'server' for the LTS periods?
[07:12] <pitti> lol, that question sounds familiar to me :)
[07:12] <mdz> jdub: for security purposes, it's germinate output
[07:12] <mdz> jdub: for technical support, that's a jeff bailey question
[07:12] <jdub> mdz: but supported includes server and desktop stuff
[07:12] <mdz_> ok, that was weird
[07:12] <jdub> btw, i thought we were going to fix the libpam-ldap/libnss-ldap in universe problem - but they're still there atm
[07:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44313 in ubuntu-cdimage "build-essential not on Dapper Flight7 ISO" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44313
[07:12] <Kamion> 18:11 < jdub> mdz: but supported includes server and desktop stuff
[07:12] <Keybuk> jdub: bug# for the problem?
[07:12] <Riddell> carlos: in k3b changelog "Alter debian/rules to mark .po files as UTF-8" a month ago, are the files still not valid?
[07:13] <jdub> Keybuk: the 'bug' is that they're in universe
[07:14] <jdub> Keybuk: it was being discussed months ago, i hadn't thought about it
[07:14] <carlos> Riddel: hmmm, let me check...
[07:14] <ogra> jdub, i can tell you that ltsp is not a 5year supported server since it relies on desktop stuff :) thats all i could find out yet 
[07:14] <Keybuk> jdub: discussed with whom?
[07:14] <dholbach> hey bddebian
[07:14] <jdub> Keybuk: it was being discussed here and on the lists, from memory
[07:14] <mdke> Riddell: fraid not, but he's online afaik
[07:15] <Riddell> he's not responding
[07:15] <_ion> Sigh. /me is trying to fix bug #41148, but the source seems to be full of undocumented lists of magic numbers that mysteriously make things work.
[07:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41148 in xserver-xorg-driver-savage "buggy display of video in totem" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41148
[07:15] <Keybuk> jdub: I see no discussion on here in over a year
[07:16] <Keybuk> the only mention, in fact, was you asking mdz and being told what the procedure was
[07:16] <Keybuk> and that was January 2005
[07:17] <mdke> jdub: did you see either of my emails about planet? would really appreciate you making the change for my blog
[07:17] <jdub> mdke: been travelling, will get around to it
[07:17] <Kamion> iwj: speaking of seeds, shouldn't autopkgtest be added to supported?
[07:17] <mdke> jdub: thanks.
[07:17] <carlos> Riddell: http://librarian.launchpad.net/2731657/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.k3b_0.12.14-0ubuntu6_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[07:17] <carlos> Riddell: the .pot file is not being regenerated
[07:18] <Keybuk> jdub: for main inclusion (for edgy) you need to prepare a MainInclusionReport for them, and then get a developer (usually pitti) to security review the packages and check them for general supportability
[07:18] <Keybuk> once approved, they need to be seeded somewhere appropriate (supported)
[07:18] <carlos> Riddell: and thus, we are not getting the updated .pot files
[07:18] <jdub> Keybuk: i know what the procedure is
[07:18] <jdub> Keybuk: it's not a itch of mine, but i'm pretty gobsmacked it wasn't thought about or done for dapper
[07:19] <Keybuk> jdub: it's clearly not an itch of anybody's
[07:19] <Kamion> we apologise for the distro team being insufficiently omniscient
[07:19] <jdub> oh, guys, come on
[07:19] <jdub> don't be tools
[07:19] <Kamion> dude, lots of other stuff has got into main, and that's because the people who cared pushed for it
[07:20] <Kamion> if nobody who cares pushes for it ...
[07:20] <Keybuk> hell, you don't even have to push that hard, it's more of a gentle prod
[07:20] <jdub> Kamion: thus i am surprised, both because other people didn't care about it and we didn't care about it
[07:20] <mdz_> Kamion: these new isos are a new build, right, not just renamed?
[07:20] <Kamion> how many of the distro team do you think have time to run large corporate environments that authenticate off LDAP servers? :-)
[07:20] <Keybuk> mdz_: rsync thinks so, yes
[07:20] <Kamion> mdz_: yes
[07:21] <Kamion> I just wanted to get the rename admin out of the way
[07:21] <Riddell> carlos: how do you know it's not?  extract-messages is bring run in that buildlog
[07:21] <jdub> Kamion: it's kind of a use case i had imagined we'd care about for dapper
[07:21] <iwj> Kamion: oh, I knew there was something I'd forgotten.  Unfortunately I have to go now or I'll miss dinner.
[07:21] <Keybuk> jdong: the network-authentication spec, which I imagine this falls under, was deferred to dapper+n
[07:21] <Kamion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLibnss-ldap actually does exist
[07:21] <Kamion> iwj: should I do it now?
[07:22] <iwj> If you're there anyway, yes, please.
[07:22] <carlos> Riddell: well, we didn't get any tarball for k3b since last year at people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/translations
[07:22] <Keybuk> uh, jdub
[07:22] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  still busy?
[07:22] <Kamion> iwj: doing
[07:22] <carlos> Riddell: pkgstriptranslations: processing control file: ./debian/k3b/DEBIAN/control, package k3b, directory ./debian/k3b
[07:22] <carlos> pkgstriptranslations: k3b does not contain translations, skipping
[07:22] <carlos> pkgstriptranslations: processing control file: ./debian/libk3b-dev/DEBIAN/control, package libk3b-dev, directory ./debian/libk3b-dev
[07:22] <carlos> pkgstriptranslations: libk3b-dev does not contain translations, skipping
[07:22] <jdub> Keybuk: (sure, but they're pretty critical beyond that larger spec)
[07:22] <Keybuk> jdub: if they were critical, I'm sure somebody would have noticed in the last 8 months
[07:22] <iwj> Kamion: Thanks.
[07:23] <jdub> Keybuk: again, this is why i'm surprised (and not attacking the distro team, thank you very much)
[07:23] <Kamion> so the right answer would be to set the train in motion while you all remember now :)
[07:23] <bddebian> heh
[07:24] <carlos> Riddell: and the k3b_0.12.14-0ubuntu6_i386.changes file lacks the translations tarball
[07:24] <Keybuk> jdub: except for calling us tools, you mean? :)
[07:25] <jdub> Keybuk: when you're reacting as if i'm attacking you, absolutely
[07:26] <Riddell> carlos: so the .pot is in rosetta?
[07:26] <carlos> Riddell: the old version faild, the new version was not even exported to be imported into Rosetta...
[07:26] <dholbach> either I'm imagining things (which I hope for the first time in my life), or I was too stupid to use gparted-in-ubiquity properly or my 150 GB of data just vanished like that
[07:27] <kikidonk> I'm getting a segfault with liferea+mozilla: http://en.pastebin.ca/58060
[07:27] <Kamion> jdub: I'm afraid that "how come we haven't fixed this thing we talked about ages ago" does come across a little like saying that the distro team dropped the ball
[07:28] <Riddell> carlos: is pkgstriptranslations for .po files or .pot files?
[07:28] <carlos> pitti: ^^^
[07:28] <carlos> Riddell: I saw other packages that only had a .pot file and no .po files working
[07:28] <carlos> Riddell: for instance, kdebase
[07:28] <carlos> so it should work...
[07:29] <carlos> pitti: po4a and discover are fixed now (well, waiting for the import queue that it's a bit busy atm...)
[07:29] <jdub> Kamion: hardly something i can claim we-ship with
[07:30] <pitti> carlos: it puts both into the tarballs, but it just removes .mo files
[07:30] <janimo> dholbach: auch
[07:30] <pitti> Riddell: ^
[07:30] <Riddell> pitti: so pkgstriptranslations isn't finding any .pot files?  
[07:30] <carlos> pitti: the problem is that k3b's .pot files are not being extracted
[07:30] <pitti> Riddell: for which package?
[07:30] <Riddell> the buildlog seems to suggest they're being generated
[07:30] <pitti> ah
[07:30] <Riddell> pitti: k3b
[07:31] <dholbach> Ok, I have a problem - 70 GB of data just went AWOL because of mis-partition
[07:31] <dholbach> I'm out for a cigarette
[07:32] <pitti> Riddell, carlos: hm, the k3b tarball has all POTs, and k3b-i18n tarball has all po files
[07:32] <Riddell> that's right
[07:32] <mdz> BenC: what went wrong with the kernel build?
[07:32] <mdz> dholbach: when you come back, try gpart
[07:32] <carlos> pitti: but the build log shows that we are not generating the translations tarball
[07:32] <pitti> Riddell: erm, wait - we didn't get a new tarball for *ages*
[07:33] <pitti> Riddell: the last tarball we got: ./20051207/k3b_0.12.8-1ubuntu1_i386_translations.tar.gz
[07:33] <Keybuk> Kamion: is there a magic script that would show up sources without any binaries in the archive?
[07:33] <dholbach> mdz: does that help, if the installation happened after that?
[07:33] <dholbach> pitti: of course not
[07:34] <mdz> dholbach: depends on the circumstances
[07:34] <Riddell> pitti: where do those tars appear from?
[07:34] <dholbach> oh a tiny shimmer of hope then *phew*
[07:34] <carlos> Riddell: from the build
[07:34] <dholbach> thanks mdz
[07:34] <Keybuk> Kamion: would it show up in outdate.txt, as the binary version is newer than the source (where the binary is now built by a different source)
[07:34] <pitti> Riddell: http://librarian.launchpad.net/2731657/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.k3b_0.12.14-0ubuntu6_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[07:34] <Riddell> carlos, pitti: seems to me like pkgstriptranslations is broken then
[07:34] <carlos> pitti, Riddell: I need to leave now, please, mail me if you need anything from me....
[07:35] <pitti> Riddell: that means that there are no files worth extracting, so pkgstriptranslations doesn't create a tarball
[07:35] <carlos> Riddell: are you 100% sure the .pot file is being generated?
[07:35] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/anastacia.txt
[07:35] <Keybuk> ^ Woohoo!
[07:35] <Riddell> carlos: I'm 99% sure
[07:36] <pitti> Riddell: there is no sign of intltool invocation at all
[07:36] <carlos> pitti: k3b is not using intltool...
[07:36] <carlos> intltool is used with GNOME packages k3b is KDE ;-)
[07:36] <Riddell> pitti: build log includes the magic line XGETTEXT=/usr/bin/kde-xgettext sh admin/cvs.sh extract-messages
[07:36] <pitti> well, it uses intltool package at least
[07:37] <Riddell> and that would complain if it was broken
[07:37] <pitti> Riddell: aaaaah
[07:37] <pitti> Riddell: it extracts the POT files as the very, *very* last step
[07:37] <pitti> Riddell: but it has to do that before dpkg-deb invocation
[07:37] <yuriy> looking at michael's comment in bug #41767, are bugs no longer being fixed for dapper? even a (albeit minor) segfault?
[07:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41767 in aptitude "aptitude changelog <package without candidates> segfaults." [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41767
[07:37] <carlos> see you
[07:37] <zyga> hey pitti, carlos :)
[07:37] <pitti> hi zyga 
[07:37] <carlos> pitti: Thanks for your input in language packs!
[07:38] <carlos> zyga: hi
[07:38] <pitti> carlos: thanks to you too for the great progress :)
[07:38] <Riddell> pitti: oh, how confusing
[07:38] <Riddell> pitti: well, should be easy enough to fix
[07:43] <dholbach> ok, using gpart froze that box
[07:43] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, at least dapper-desktop-i386 doesn't seem to have any of the new versions of stuff fixed on DRR
[07:45] <mdz> oh, no new livefs builds I suppose
[07:46] <mdz> fabbione: night
[07:46] <fabbione> later
[07:46] <fabbione> actually i mean shower -> dinner
[07:46] <fabbione> but i might pass by later
[07:46] <fabbione> mdz: phone is on if the world falls down
[07:46] <fabbione> mdz: both mobile and land line
[07:47] <pitti> @all: can you please dist-upgrade to "deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/ ./", restart your session, and tell me about any oddities you see?
[07:47] <pitti> Riddell: can you please update to latest daily langpacks and particularly check KDE? the desktop files, flags, etc. should be up to date now
[07:49] <Riddell> pitti: doing
[07:55] <mdz> Kamion,Mithrandir: can someone kick off new livefs builds?
[07:58] <mdz> Riddell: chewing on oo.o right now
[08:00] <Riddell> what does "NOT OK : Manual OpenOffice Builds... Patience." mean?
[08:00] <pitti> Riddell: new packs working well for me
[08:00] <Keybuk> mdz: there's a whole bunch of ubuntu-meta changes (language packs, mostly), should I upload?
[08:02] <pitti> Keybuk: argh, I forgot that live CDs need an updated metapackage, too
[08:02] <pitti> Keybuk: would be nice to get for the next CDs, to verify that my langpack stuffing was correct (and to check whether today's package changes changed the CD size significantly)
[08:03] <Riddell> pitti: happens to us all
[08:03] <Keybuk> pitti: looks like both ogra and dholbach forgot about ubuntu-meta too
[08:03] <Riddell> pitti: french and georgian kde langauge-packs looks good here
[08:03] <ogra> Keybuk, ?
[08:04] <Keybuk>   * Added screensaver-default-images to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64,
[08:04] <Keybuk>     desktop-powerpc, desktop-ia64, desktop-sparc, desktop-hppa
[08:04] <ogra> err, but not in edubuntu i hope
[08:04] <ogra> else i know whose fault it is that i seasrch for the 4M oversizedness of my live CD :P
[08:05] <ogra> Keybuk, and i also thought you added them to supported ... they shouldnt end up on the CD
[08:05] <kagou> smurf, always not around ? ;)
[08:06] <Keybuk> ogra: that would appear to negate the term "default"
[08:06] <mdz> Keybuk: langpack changes are expected
[08:07] <ogra> Keybuk, as long as they dont show up in edubuntu i'm fine 
[08:07] <mdz> Keybuk: screensaver-default-images is something which should have landed a long time ago; I'm not entirely comfortable with that
[08:07] <ogra> i'm fighting around single bits and *bytes* here
[08:07] <ogra> it should have gone to supported 
[08:08] <mdz> that's not what the spec says
[08:08] <Keybuk> ogra: if supported, then it should be called "screensaver-images", not "default"
[08:08] <bluefoxicy> ogra:  edubuntu too big?
[08:08] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: no, the CD is too small :-)
[08:09] <pitti> mdz: new langpacks ready for upload; is now a good time, or shall I wait?
[08:09] <mdz> pitti: now is fine
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  lol!
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  Don't get media happy.  Nobody wants to download a DVD if a CD will do.  :)
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> {BANDWIDTH}
[08:09] <LaserJock> that's what uni lines are for :-)
[08:10] <dholbach> is there anything else important apart from /var/log/installer/ I should save from that mispartitioned installation?
[08:11] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock: they could always base on top of Xubuntu though... the CD for that is under 400 megs.  Then again, the software is a mix and match of KDE and Gnome software, which means KDE and GNOME platform libraries as well as GTK+ and Qt ne?
[08:11] <ogra> Keybuk	ogra: are you intending to seed this in main?
[08:11] <ogra> 	ogra	Keybuk, yep, its small, we can put it at least into supported
[08:11] <bluefoxicy> I guess it can't be helped.
[08:11] <ogra> Keybuk ^^^
[08:11] <mdz> does anyone know the current list of hosts which do the livefs builds?  I should be able to trigger them, but for that that has changed (I think)
[08:11] <ogra> thast from thursday 
[08:11] <Kamion> Keybuk: it's the sort of thing you'd hope archive-cruft-check would do, but it doesn't at the moment. outdate.txt should I guess ...
[08:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: anastacia> nice one!
[08:12] <Kamion> mdz: correct, I didn't do livefs rebuilds
[08:12] <janimo> mdz, UVF exception. xarchiver new upstream version fixes one of the bugs I labeled major, bug 45856
[08:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45856 in xarchiver "xarchiver close while opening *.tar.bz2" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45856
[08:12] <janimo> mdz, can either upload it myself or sync it from debian as they have it too now
[08:12] <mdz> janimo: your call; it's your funeral if it has regressions ;-)
[08:13] <Keybuk> janimo: didn't we only just sync that?!
[08:13] <janimo> Keybuk, xarchive vs xarchiver :)
[08:13] <mdz> janimo: I'd recommend backporting the fix instead unless it's a very small delta
[08:13] <janimo> not very imaginative
[08:13] <Keybuk> oh, right
[08:13] <Kamion> mdz: I have a script that does it, will kick them off now if it's a good time
[08:13] <janimo> mdz, the whole change is that bug + 3 new .po files
[08:13] <Kamion> mdz: I thought I mailed you the script not that long ago
[08:13] <janimo> mdz if you wish I just apply the patch
[08:14] <mdz> Kamion: I had a script of my own that I thought i sent you
[08:14] <mdz> Kamion: in any case, please send
[08:14] <mdz> janimo: if it's only that patch + translations, new upstream is fine
[08:14] <janimo> mdz, ok thanks
[08:15] <Kamion> mdz: http://riva.ucam.org/svn/cjwatson/bin/ubuntu-build-livecd
[08:16] <mdz> Kamion: mine is a bit fancier, but the list of servers is rusty
[08:16] <Kamion> yeah, I suspect I never got around to merging it
[08:16] <Kamion> I've started an Ubuntu livefs build
[08:16] <mdz> it's python, captures the output from the script (though there is none) and times the builds
[08:16] <mdz> nothing too compelling
[08:16] <mdz> thanks
[08:17] <Kamion> mine prints the dates, so I can work out the times easily :)
[08:17] <Kamion> though not as cute
[08:17] <yuriy> looking at michael's comment in bug #41767, are bugs no longer being fixed for dapper? even a (albeit minor) segfault? anybody?
[08:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41767 in aptitude "aptitude changelog <package without candidates> segfaults." [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41767
[08:17] <mdz> we should keep that list of servers in the wiki somewhere
[08:17] <Keybuk> yuriy: only showstoppers
[08:17] <Keybuk> minor bugs can get on the edgy bus
[08:17] <mdz> yuriy: we are in the final stages of release preparation
[08:17] <Kamion> mdz: I'll start a list somewhere
[08:17] <yuriy> k thanks
[08:17] <mdz> yuriy: and yes, that means that we're being selective about which bugs to fix
[08:18] <mdz> yuriy: that one is quite minor
[08:19] <yuriy> what happened to the "target to release" in launchpad? is that coming back? would be convenient for stuff like that
[08:19] <yuriy> i only see "backport fix to releases"
[08:20] <Kamion> yuriy: we use milestones for that instead now
[08:20] <Kamion> target to release was badly designed so it went away
[08:20] <mdz> Kamion: but it's destined to come back
[08:21] <Kamion> oh, it is? bogosity ;-)
[08:21] <Kamion> presumably it will set milestones rather than creating extra bug tasks
[08:21] <Kamion> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildDaemons/LiveFilesystems
[08:21] <mdz> I wish
[08:21] <pitti> so, can we still upload bug fixes which are simple and safe (like http://librarian.launchpad.net/2765349/fix_eintr_crash.patch), but aren't really showstoppers?
[08:21] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[08:21] <Kamion> infinity: could you make sure to update the above if it ever changes?
[08:21] <mdz> pitti: yes, that one is ok
[08:22] <mdz> Kamion: would be handy to include your script there as well
[08:24] <Kamion> mdz: done; I'll try to remember to merge it with yours at some point
[08:24] <mdz> Kamion: not worth it, I'd say
[08:25] <yuriy> how do milestones work? (I don't see it, sorry for the noise)
[08:25] <Kamion> yuriy: click on the bug task and it's in the drop-down menu
[08:25] <Kamion> yuriy: but there is no milestone for edgy yet, if that's your intention
[08:26] <mdz> Kamion: the only interesting difference is that mine allowed multiple arguments (flavours) to be passed at once
[08:26] <Kamion> it will be created along with the edgy development branch
[08:26] <mdz> it doesn't do the architecture magic that yours does, either
[08:26] <Kamion> mdz: that would be kinda handy actually
[08:26] <Kamion> the architecture magic is very useful to avoid wasting time
[08:26] <mdz> Kamion: I think there's a bug where you can only see the milestone if you have privileges to change it
[08:27] <mdz> which in a sort of accidental way is useful
[08:34] <mdz> gar, I thought we disabled gimp's obnoxious first-run wizard?
[08:34] <Keybuk> mdz: nobody expects the first-run wizard!
[08:38] <mdz> it's especially obnoxious for example-content
[08:45] <ogra> yay
[08:45] <ogra> finally after the 7th media i have a working install CD :)
[08:46] <mvo> mdz: I can have a look if you want and patch it out (again)
[08:46] <_ion> ogra: Why not use CD-RWs for testing?
[08:46] <highvoltage> ogra: whohoo!
[08:46] <ogra> and i386 install even worked :)
[08:46] <highvoltage> _ion: or even vmware ;)
[08:46] <ogra> _ion, i use DVD+RWs with a very picky DVD ROM
[08:47] <ogra> _ion, it only takes "intenso" media apparently and not all of a 10er pack
[08:47] <sivang> Kamion: just to let you know I've tested with breezy powerpc, still does not boot on the pSeires. 
[08:47] <ogra> highvoltage, i leave the easy parts (vmware) to the community ;) i like testing with real HW
[08:48] <mdz> mvo: how complex was the original patch?
[08:48] <mdz> sivang: breezy?
[08:48] <Kamion> sivang: ok, at least it's not a regression
[08:48] <Kamion> mdz: I asked him to
[08:48] <mvo> mdz: IIRC it was not very big and pretty straight-forward
[08:48] <sivang> mdz: yes
[08:48] <highvoltage> ogra: heh
[08:48] <ogra> mvo, my acer laptop only eats intenso ... i tried verbatim
[08:48] <mdz> ok, I was confused by the 'still'
[08:48] <mdz> if breezy didn't boot there when it was released, it doesn't now either ;-)
[08:48] <Kamion> 'still' with respect to the dapper tests sivang was doing the other day, I think
[08:48] <ogra> (saldy this lappie is my amd64 *and* i386 testmachine)
[08:49] <sivang> mdz: yes, withrespect to testing with the -stripped and some other 2 images
[08:51] <poimen> hi
[08:51] <poimen> :)
[08:52] <poimen> just updated my dapper
[08:52] <poimen> :) does the code have been freezed?
[08:52] <ogra> nearly
[08:54] <mdz> Kamion: about how long do the livefs builds take these days?
[08:54] <poimen> because it have been removed the beta name on the gnome splash
[08:54] <poimen> using ubuntu with xgl and It seems stable to me :) xgl have some problems but there are minor with gnome
[08:55] <poimen> :)
[08:55] <poimen> in kubuntu by the other hand xgl does not work too good as in suse 10.1 on KDE
[08:55] <mdz> poimen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[08:56] <Kamion> mdz: 20min for i386, 30-35min for amd64/powerpc/sparc, 40min for hppa, ia64 dunno yet
[08:57] <mdz> oh, so irelease arches should be done now
[08:59] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[08:59] <mdz> Kamion: ok to kick off cron.daily-live?
[09:00] <poimen> so the last rc beta or alpha will be realesed today :D
[09:00] <mdz> pitti: did you see this comment in 31775?  are those translations still missing from the latest langpack export?
[09:00] <mdz> poimen: no
[09:00] <pitti> bug 31775
[09:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31775 in Ubuntu Dapper "Ubuntu should have better links to support options" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31775
[09:01] <pitti> mdz: ah, we discussed that this morning; we tried to find the reason why the i386 build didn't update the pot, and seb uploaded another package
[09:01] <mdz> pitti: so your pending upload will fix it?
[09:01] <pitti> mdz: last time I checked the package wasn't yet build, lemme check again now...
[09:02] <ogra> Riddell, why did you remove brtty-x11 ?
[09:02] <Riddell> ogra: it's a gnome application
[09:02] <ogra> oh
[09:03] <ogra> the name doesnt really indicate its gnome *shrug*
[09:03] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[09:03] <Riddell> ogra: build deps on gtk etc etc
[09:03] <Riddell> install deps too
[09:03] <ogra> Riddell, yep
[09:03] <ogra> i was hoping to get a valid reason to not do that meta upload :)
[09:04] <Kamion> urgh, we never got round to revisiting bug 31661
[09:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31661 in kbd-chooser "ignores preseeding" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31661
[09:04] <ogra> since brtty-x11 is the only addition
[09:04] <mdz> (live build in progress)
[09:06] <mdz> Kamion: the 404s in the cd build log are normal?
[09:06] <pitti> mdz: so, the new package's build on i386 still has an outdated pot file, althought he build log clearly says that it was regenerated; I have no idea about that ATM
[09:06] <pitti> mdz: as for carlos' manual fix, I don't know whether the file made it into today's tarball, checking now...
[09:07] <Kamion> mdz: they're for old .cloop images, and we try both .cloop and .squashfs; yes, they're normal
[09:07] <Kamion> mdz: bug 31661 is still an issue; can I put it on DapperReleaseRadar and investigate?
[09:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31661 in kbd-chooser "ignores preseeding" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31661
[09:07] <Kamion> it is going to piss off people doing automatic deployments something rotten
[09:08] <mdz> pitti: it is gnome-panel in question, right?
[09:08] <pitti> mdz: right
[09:08] <omeg> Does anyone know when the Edubuntu and Xubuntu usplash screens will be packaged?
[09:08] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[09:09] <ogra> omeg, after the vote, i have your "not completely polished" version in edubuntu currently
[09:10] <Kamion> thanks
[09:11] <pitti> mdz: if there are translations for these new strings, then they didn't make it into today's tarball, so that's something we need to translate post-release (the pot file has been fixed ~ 10 hours ago only)
[09:11] <Kamion> pitti: want to mark your final langpack changes [done]  in DapperReleaseRadar, if that's true?
[09:11] <ogra> but given that i just discovered a bug in the edubuntu firefox css (which indeed only appears in such rarely used languages like english) i'll have to upload another -artwork package anyway it seems, where is your latest version ?
[09:11] <pitti> Kamion: I hope these are the final ones :) Yeah, I'll do that
[09:11] <dAndy> Kamion: did you see my report about ftp kickstart install not working?
[09:11] <Kamion> dAndy: no
[09:12] <Kamion> dAndy: was it in the bug tracking system?
[09:12] <dAndy> Kamion: i pinged you on here, havent had a chance to file a bug yet
[09:12] <dAndy> i will file one
[09:12] <Kamion> dAndy: please don't do that unless I'm actively around - I'll miss it
[09:12] <Kamion> I was away Friday and all weekend
[09:12] <dAndy> Kamion: i see, i intended on filing a bug too, just didnt get to it
[09:15] <ogra> omeg, ^^^ ?
[09:17] <omeg> Hi ogra
[09:17] <omeg> Oh, didn't see your message
[09:17] <ogra> :)
[09:17] <omeg> There was a vote on that?
[09:17] <omeg> I didn't even realize. Well, cool. :)
[09:17] <ogra> there is a vote on that by the artteam
[09:17] <omeg> I thought that was only for Ubuntu?
[09:17] <ogra> i thought you're subscribed to the list
[09:17] <omeg> I follow the ubuntu-art list but I guess I must have missed that message.
[09:18] <ogra> as i wrote in that thread, edubuntu will follow
[09:18] <ogra> for consistency reasons
[09:18] <mdz> pitti,seb128: I just did a build of gnome-panel and the .pot file doesn't have the Ubuntu Book Excerpt string in it
[09:18] <omeg> Ah, okay. Will Xubuntu also get packaged at around this time, or is it not following the same release date?
[09:18] <ogra> omeg, tsk, i even praised you in my mail :) you shouldnt miss such mails ;)
[09:19] <omeg> Haha, I'll go find that right away. I wanna read that now.
[09:19] <ogra> its following the same dates afaik
[09:19] <ogra> omeg, janimo can tell you
[09:20] <ogra> omeg, so is there a final version of the edubuntu one ? i have to fix a bug anyway in the artwork package and could even add that then
[09:20] <omeg> Strange. I really don't seem to have that one mail.
[09:20] <dAndy> Kamion: Bug #46052 sorry about that
[09:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46052 in debian-installer "FTP Support in Kickstart Stops working part way through the install" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46052
[09:21] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/edu_newsuggestion_0_8_TEST.png <-- this is my latest (it says "test", but I fixed the palette.)
[09:21] <omeg> Let's see...
[09:21] <janimo> omeg, yes same dates for xubuntu
[09:21] <omeg> Yeah, I'd say that this is final.
[09:21] <ogra> omeg, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-May/001612.html
[09:21] <ogra> yep, looks ok
[09:21] <omeg> Ahh. Cool. :)
[09:21] <dAndy> Kamion: it should be noted, this was primarily testing the ftp support, it is not critical for my deployment
[09:22] <omeg> I guess I will go fix the palette of Xubuntu.
[09:22] <ogra> i'll add that one (its the same as ubuntu designwise, right ? )
[09:22] <mdz> Kamion: happily, the new iso filenames cause rsync's sorting to do what I want (give me desktop first)
[09:22] <omeg> Yeah: http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/xu_newsuggestion_0_8_SCALED.png
[09:22] <omeg> I hope the color scheme is okay.
[09:22] <_ion> I did some more testing. The Xv overlay code in the savage driver is totally broken. The image gets damaged when 1) _either_ the horizontal or the vertical size of the overlay is smaller than the size of the original picture or 2) the overlay is partially outside the visible screen area.
[09:22] <omeg> I don't really know much about Xubuntu.
[09:23] <Kamion> mdz: heh, nice side-effect
[09:23] <janimo> omeg, does the xubunt splash need changing?
[09:23] <omeg> janimo: just the palette that isn't in the correct order yet.
[09:23] <janimo> omeg, ok
[09:24] <Kamion> dAndy: can you dump your /etc/apt/sources.list into the bug?
[09:24] <Kamion> from that install
[09:24] <omeg> Man, after 6.06 is released, and I finish all this work that I've been putting off a little, I'll make a wikipage about user interface things from here to tokyo. I kinda like working on this. I only recently started doing it but I think it's neat to be working on a project as big and interesting as this.
[09:24] <omeg> Plus, it's good portfolio material...
[09:24] <dAndy> Kamion: sure
[09:25] <Kamion> the spacing in that error message is odd and suggests badness
[09:25] <Kamion> "Unable to connect to  ftp:"
[09:26] <Kamion> dAndy: oh, any funny proxy stuff going on?
[09:26] <janimo> Kamion, do you know how much effort and risk would bug 41322  involve
[09:26] <dAndy> Kamion: nope, no proxy
[09:26] <omeg> By the way, I should file a bug report about this, but the American English translation of Breezy says "Analysing your system" in the update program.
[09:26] <janimo> oh, ubuntu timed out
[09:26] <janimo> ubugut
[09:26] <glatzor> omeg: there was already a bug report about his
[09:27] <Kamion> janimo: I should be able to do it tomorrow
[09:27] <mvo> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/gimp_2.2.11-1ubuntu3.debdiff (<- remove the first-time-wizard, taken from breezy, tested with pbuilder, verified that it really works)
[09:27] <omeg> Ah, okay. I bet it's fixed already, then.
[09:27] <glatzor> omeg: yep.
[09:27] <janimo> Kamion: great
[09:27] <mvo> glatzor: hello! 
[09:27] <mdz> Kamion: I have the new live CDs booted now; is there any test case I should try for the ubiquity partitioning issues?
[09:27] <glatzor> omeg: replaced "analy(s|z)e" by "examine" 
[09:27] <glatzor> hi mvo
[09:28] <omeg> Clever.
[09:28] <glatzor> omeg: somebody else suggested this :)
[09:29] <sladen> omeg: centre of the circle (around the mouse) looks a bit bright in the x* logo
[09:29] <Kamion> mdz: ensure that ubiquity presents you with the auto-resize option (actually I'm not certain that's necessary, but let's pretend it is) and then try your choice of permutations of manual partitioning, without deleting the partition it offered to resize
[09:29] <glatzor> mvo: sorry, but I haven't found the time today to finish the docu
[09:29] <mvo> glatzor: no problem
[09:29] <Kamion> mdz: make sure that it does not say "Resizing partition" at any point; to make certain, grep for RESIZE_PARTITION in /var/log/partman
[09:29] <glatzor> mvo: it is a problem actually :)
[09:30] <Kamion> it should not appear
[09:30] <glatzor> mvo: polishing the German translation consumes nearly all my open source time
[09:30] <omeg> sladen: yeah, I wanted to give the mouse some emphasis.
[09:31] <mvo> glatzor: the current translation has a bug that makes the update-manager crash in ngettext
[09:31] <glatzor> :/ what did I say? I don't know anything about the German translation :)
[09:32] <glatzor> mvo: only in the German translation?
[09:33] <mdz> Kamion: it doesn't present me with the auto-resize option
[09:33] <mdz> I have 2 primary + 1 logical partition in this vm
[09:33] <mdz> er
[09:33] <mdz> 1 primary and 1 logical (1 extended)
[09:34] <siretart> mdz: do you know if the TB meeting scheduled for tomorrow is going to actually happen or has it been canceled?
[09:34] <mdz> siretart: I hadn't thought about it
[09:34] <mvo> glatzor: yes, in the translation is a "%s" that is missing and so python can't subsitute the string. but I can't find the string in rosetta easily :/
[09:34] <mvo> oh well
[09:35] <mdz> siretart: keybuk and I will definitely be busy, and probably sabdfl too
[09:35] <glatzor> mvo: no it's a bug in the code
[09:35] <siretart> mdz: I have a question about backports for the tb. shall I ask/discuss that on the mailinglist instead then?
[09:35] <mvo> mdz: if you are ok with the debdiff for the gimp first-time-wizard I can upload it after dinner
[09:35] <mvo> glatzor: is it?
[09:35] <mdz> mvo: url?
[09:35] <mdz> mvo: ah, I see it
[09:36] <mvo> :)
[09:36] <mdz> mvo: the patch from breezy applied unmodified?
[09:36] <glatzor> mvo: I am not sure. one moment
[09:36] <mvo> mdz: yes
[09:36] <mvo> glatzor: sure, I'm about to leave for dinner anyway, take your time 
[09:37] <ogra> omeg, your png is indexed to 256 cols 
[09:37] <pygi> vuntz, are you around ? (emergency) :)
[09:37] <ogra> )the edubuntu one)
[09:37] <mdz> mvo: ok then
[09:37] <glatzor> mvo: the code is ok. I misunderstood the syntax.
[09:39] <sladen> mdz: could you time-shift the TB meeting.  At T-1week it would be really useful to have a chance for you to lay out timetable, area that need focusing on
[09:39] <ogra> omeg, can i get one with 16 cols so i can include it right away ? 
[09:40] <Kamion> mdz: there are various reasons why it might not
[09:40] <mdz> Kamion: does it matter for the test?
[09:40] <Kamion> mdz: try manual partitioning anyway and make sure it doesn't erase
[09:40] <Kamion> the bug is essentially that it will go into autopartitioning without you asking it to
[09:40] <Kamion> erasing was the dholbach manifestation
[09:41] <mdz> Kamion: in the cases where it did the wrong thing, was the summary display correct or incorrect?
[09:42] <Kamion> mdz: correct, IIRC; but the breakage happened before the summary was displayed
[09:42] <j^> hm, resume stopped working, i just get a yellow "inu" and a blinking curser left of it
[09:42] <mdz> Kamion: it doesn't seem to have erased
[09:42] <mdz> Kamion: I don't have a /var/log/installer/partman
[09:43] <xhaker> oh.. something changed in the install cd's? why is it called alternate now? pushing for ubiquity?
[09:43] <mdz> xhaker: only the filenames changed, to match the new descriptions
[09:43] <Kamion> mdz: /var/log/partman
[09:43] <Kamion> xhaker: see ubuntu-devel-announce@
[09:44] <Kamion> we announce major changes there
[09:44] <xhaker> Kamion: maybe i have it set to digest mail, thanks
[09:44] <Kamion> there's not very much point setting announcement lists to digest, usually :-)
[09:45] <mdz> Kamion: mailed you the logs
[09:46] <bddebian> Where are we supposed to put our names for core-dev consideration these days??
[09:46] <omeg> Done. What a tedious job.
[09:46] <omeg> [21:37]  <ogra> omeg, your png is indexed to 256 cols <-- The Xubuntu one?
[09:46] <crimsun> bddebian: apply to the LP team.
[09:46] <omeg> That's strange...
[09:47] <ogra> omeg, edubuntu 
[09:47] <ogra> omeg, ogra == edubuntu, janimo == xubuntu, Riddell == kubuntu 
[09:47] <sladen> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/+join
[09:47] <omeg> Let's see.
[09:47] <ogra> ;)
[09:48] <bddebian> Thanks crimsun and sladen :-)
[09:48] <omeg> Oh dear. I wonder if I can fix that. Photoshop might completely re-arrange the palette.
[09:48] <omeg> It did. Tsk.
[09:48] <janimo> are candidate CDs building tonight?
[09:48] <ogra> omeg, thats why i didnt touch it with gimp now
[09:49] <ogra> (to prevent palette rearrangement)
[09:49] <mdz> 32gnome_power_manager seems awfully slow
[09:50] <sladen> ogra: Gimp doesn't much with the order of the palette
[09:50] <mdz> but it does run, so confirmed that fix
[09:50] <ogra> sladen, if i shrink it down from 256 to 16 cols it might
[09:50] <omeg> Let's see if I can do it with gimp, too.
[09:51] <mdz> Kamion: er, never noticed all this module loading business at the end of ubiquity before
[09:52] <mdz> Kamion: seems to say Installing system / Loading module[...]  while mkinitramfs is actually what's running
[09:52] <omeg> I don't think I can remove colors with GIMP.
[09:52] <omeg> I'd have to convert it to RGB first and that would definitely break the palette.
[09:53] <ogra> omeg, switch it to rgb and back to indexed 
[09:53] <ogra> yep
[09:53] <omeg> So I guess I'll have to fix it manually, then.
[09:55] <ogra> mdz, did the upload queue already get switched to manual approval mode ? 
[09:55] <mdz> ogra: no, why?
[09:55] <slomo> no uploads are currently ACCEPTED, even universe ones
[09:55] <ogra> hmm, i'm missing my edubuntu-meta upload
[09:55] <ogra> from 1h ago
[09:57] <mdz> ogra: ok, I may have lied
[09:57] <mdz> the cron job seems to be commented out
[09:57] <Kamion> mdz: that appears to have used the automatic erase option
[09:57] <mdz> but I didn't do it
[09:58] <Kamion> unless I'm misreading this
[09:58] <Kamion> oh, sorry, I did it for the langpack uploads
[09:58] <Kamion> I'll fix it
[09:58] <mdz> Kamion: I used  manual
[09:58] <bddebian> slomo: ??
[09:58] <slomo> bddebian: hi :)
[09:58] <Kamion> fixed
[09:58] <Kamion> (queue)
[09:58] <ogra> thanks :)
[09:58] <sladen> Kamion: ta
[09:58] <mdz> ogra,slomo: should be processed in ~1m
[09:58] <bddebian> slomo: Hi.  What do you mean no uploads are ACCEPTED?
[09:58] <bddebian> Oh, NM
[09:59] <slomo> thanks :)
[10:00] <Kamion> mdz: did you run ubiquity more than once there?
[10:00] <mdz> Kamion: no
[10:00] <Kamion> mdz: there's probably no progress message for mkinitramfs, oh well
[10:01] <mdz> Kamion: I thought there was before; wasn't it "Detecting hardware" or such?
[10:01] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/xu_newsuggestion_0_8_TEST.png
[10:01] <omeg> Whew
[10:01] <omeg> Finally fixed.
[10:01] <omeg> It has 16 colors now. I'd prefer it if it's tested just to make sure that it IS correct, though...
[10:01] <bddebian> Heya ivoks
[10:01] <ivoks> hey bddebian 
[10:03] <Kamion> mdz: oh, you appear to have selected "erase entire disk" on the autopartitioning page, gone forward to the summary page, gone back to autopartitioning, then selected manual partitioning; is that accurate?
[10:03] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[10:03] <Kamion> and are you just testing me to see if I can work this out rather than telling me? :)
[10:04] <Kamion> I was rather scared when I found the evidence that "erase entire disk" had happened
[10:04] <Kamion> but it seems correct and not a problem
[10:04] <mdz> I thought that was what I was meant to do
[10:04] <ogra> omeg, yay \o/
[10:04] <Kamion> mdz: depends whether you already had a VM with something useful installed in it
[10:05] <Kamion> anyway, all seems happy
[10:05] <bddebian> ivoks: Good luck :-)
[10:05] <omeg> janimo: is it easy for you to check to see if that Xu splash screen is okay? Don't want to end up with a garbled screen...
[10:05] <omeg> I think that it is, though.
[10:05] <omeg> The palette is indexed correctly from what I can see.
[10:05] <janimo> omeg, where do I take it form?
[10:06] <janimo> although don;t rely on my taste for this, better post to the artwork list
[10:06] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/xu_newsuggestion_0_8_TEST.png <-- fixed version (correct palette, 16 colors)
[10:06] <janimo> I am and was fine with all usplashes so far
[10:06] <mdz> Kamion: it had an older install
[10:06] <janimo> omeg, very good looking :)
[10:06] <Kamion> I have a candidate fix for bug 31661
[10:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31661 in kbd-chooser "ignores preseeding" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31661
[10:07] <janimo> very ubunuish
[10:07] <omeg> I would post it to the artwork list, janimo, but as far as I know, no other splashes for Xu have been made yet, and a decision for the final Ubuntu splash is going to be made tomorrow; there's not really anymore time for another debate, I think.
[10:07] <omeg> But I'll check the Xubuntu wiki, too.
[10:07] <ogra> shiny :)
[10:07] <janimo> omeg, a minute
[10:07] <janimo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntLookProposalSteel
[10:08] <janimo> there was a splash in breezy alreday
[10:08] <janimo> but this is the first which looks like ubuntu's
[10:08] <omeg> Oh, I bet v550 made that. Looks like his style.
[10:08] <omeg> Well, I don't know then.
[10:10] <mdz> if someone who could reliably reproduce the problem with casper not responding to ENTER on reboot/shutdown could confirm the fix in the current daily-live, that would be much appreciated
[10:10] <janimo> omeg, actually I think it was JOzsef Mak
[10:11] <mdz> I'll need to go and forage for food soon
[10:11] <janimo> omeg, I like yours, that's why if you could post to the artwork list it'd be kind of a vote
[10:11] <omeg> Sure, I'll do that if you're okay with packaging it later.
[10:11] <janimo> omeg, I am not sure but the colours shoul use the palette on the page I linked too
[10:11] <janimo> steel blue it's called I think
[10:12] <janimo> all our artwork is basedon that
[10:12] <janimo> that's why consulting with jmak would be advisable
[10:12] <omeg> I kind of tried to keep that color style while, like the other splashes, keeping the logo bright (since it's on a black background). It doesn't seem to perfectly adhere to the color scheme you linked to because of that.
[10:12] <janimo> to combine our palette with the nice effects you made
[10:13] <omeg> Looks like it needs to be a little more greenish blue.
[10:13] <omeg> Mine is almost purple-ish blue.
[10:13] <Keybuk> mdz: I'm going to try and find the real root cause of that tomorrow
[10:13] <janimo> omeg, it's not my decision though, it needs someone with an eye for these things
[10:13] <Keybuk> I suspect there's some fundamental bug in there that probably should be fixed
[10:13] <Keybuk> bddebian: oh aye @ application
[10:14] <omeg> janimo: sure, I'll put it on the art list then.
[10:14] <bddebian> Keybuk: ?
[10:14] <janimo> omeg, thanks
[10:14] <Keybuk> bddebian: ubuntu-core-dev :)
[10:14] <bddebian> Keybuk: Oh, thx
[10:14] <Keybuk> we get e-mail when people apply
[10:14] <Keybuk> shiny
[10:15] <bddebian> Ack, I hate foo.desktop.in..  Escpecially with more than one binary package :-(
[10:15] <Keybuk> bddebian: not sure whether there's a TB meeting tomorrow or not
[10:16] <omeg> Argh.
[10:16] <omeg> Now I'm going to have to fix the palette again.
[10:18] <omeg> janimo: I'd say that this looks like the color scheme you mentioned: http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/xu_newsuggestion_0_8_UNFIXED.png
[10:19] <janimo> omeg, still looks blueish to me, but am not sure.
[10:19] <omeg> Hmm
[10:19] <janimo> that's why I'd like someone else to decide :)
[10:19] <janimo> I see no difference vs the previous one that's why
[10:20] <janimo> omeg, althoug our wallpaper is very blue
[10:20] <janimo> but our current spplash is bleak
[10:21] <bddebian> Keybuk: Oh, it might be cancelled?
[10:21] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/xu_newsuggestion_0_8_UNFIXED.png (updated)
[10:21] <omeg> The thing is, my usplash goes into almost full white.
[10:21] <omeg> That old usplash stays in mid-tone range.
[10:21] <Keybuk> bddebian: it's not perfectly timed given the location and activity of the participants
[10:21] <omeg> So it will look a little different, although the hue values are similar.
[10:21] <Keybuk> it would be "now" which is the latest mdz has to get food
[10:22] <bddebian> Keybuk: Aye.  No rush on my application anyway.  I was gonna wait until after release anyway
[10:22] <omeg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntLookProposalSteel?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=login.png <--> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntLookProposalSteel?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=login.png
[10:22] <omeg> (Comparison)
[10:22] <Keybuk> I've sent a mail to the others to ask whether we're planning to actually do it or not
[10:22] <janimo> omeg, I like it as I said. But would like more people preferably from the art list to OK it. Not to fight over it or anything, just so I know there's at least some consensus
[10:22] <Keybuk> we've cancelled the distro team meetings until after release too, for example
[10:22] <omeg> Yeah, I fully agree with that. If there's no time issue, I'll do it right away.
[10:22] <omeg> I'll toss it on the wikipage.
[10:23] <janimo> omeg, those were the same links?
[10:23] <omeg> Did I accidentally paste the same links?
[10:23] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/xu_newsuggestion_0_8_UNFIXED.png <--> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntLookProposalSteel?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=login.png
[10:23] <omeg> heh, sorry
[10:24] <janimo> omeg, yes please put them i the wiki and post to the art list
[10:24] <janimo> someone will probably post a link to xubuntu-devel too then
[10:24] <omeg> Is there a specific Xubuntu art list?
[10:25] <omeg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuUsplash
[10:25] <omeg> Note: palette has not been fixed. Will do it now.
[10:28] <janimo> omeg, no xubuntu-devel list is what I meant
[10:28] <mgalvin> hmm, why are the desktop images stored as /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-* in ubuntu-artwork?
[10:28] <omeg> Ah, okay. So you will post it there, and I'll post it to Ubuntu-art?
[10:29] <janimo> omeg, you post in ubuntu-art please, and there are people (not me) following both, and they will probably link to your post
[10:29] <janimo> the guy involved with xubuntu artwork is on the artlist, I assume he will
[10:34] <omeg> Mail sent. I linked to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuUsplash in the post, so we'll be seeing votes appearing there shortly, I think.
[10:34] <omeg> Now for the tedious and hopefully final task: fixing that damned palette (maybe I should beg my programmer friend to make a program for such things...)
[10:34] <wasabi> Hmm. So how is the framebuffer resolution selected?
[10:41] <omeg> Blam. Palette fixed.
[10:42] <omeg> Huh. Wait a second... now it's in 256 again.
[10:43] <omeg> Man, I give up. I can't do this. Photoshop keeps messing up my palette. Maybe GIMP will work.
[10:44] <omeg> Unless someone can pull a really cool C trick that will strip the image of the rest of its 240 colors.
[10:44] <omeg> Hmm...
[10:44] <omeg> Seems to be 16 colors in GIMP. How is that even possible?
[10:45] <ogra> strange
[10:45] <Chipzz> omeg: xpm? :)
[10:45] <omeg> Perhaps someone could double-check for me. It seems that it's correct now: http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/xu_newsuggestion_0_8_UNFIXED.png
[10:45] <omeg> If it still has 256 colors... xmp?
[10:46] <Chipzz> you could do cool tricks with xpm in perl ;P
[10:46] <ogra> Chipzz, not sure usplash eats xpm 
[10:46] <ogra> but indeed you can always try feeding :)
[10:46] <Chipzz> ogra: I meant for playing cool tricks ;)
[10:47] <Chipzz> s/play/pull/
[10:47] <Chipzz> xpm rocks for that kinda shit ;)
[10:48] <omeg> Can xpm reduce a PNG's colors, or something?
[10:48] <Chipzz> omeg: no, but you can hand-edit xpm
[10:48] <omeg> Because I would indeed greatly appreciate it if someone could do that to my Edubuntu screen so that it doesn't have to be done manually.
[10:48] <omeg> Oh.
[10:48] <Chipzz> omeg: have you ever seen an xpm file?
[10:48] <omeg> Hand-editing the palette in text would indeed be useful.
[10:48] <omeg> Nope.
[10:48] <Chipzz> it's basically ascii-art
[10:49] <omeg> But I'm not gonna check it out right now, since I'm a little busy. I'll quickly finish this and then finish other stuff... it'll be working past midnight tonight.
[10:49] <ogra> omeg, so no new edubuntu splash ?
[10:50] <omeg> I'm referring to the Edubuntu splash with "this" :)
[10:50] <ogra> ah, yay :)
[10:50] <omeg> Maybe you could check for me whether that Xubuntu screen shows up as 16 colors for you. I'm overly confused now. Photoshop shows 256 colors, GIMP shows 16.
[10:52] <ogra> Display Type: Indexed Color (16 colors)
[10:52] <ogra> omeg, thats what gimps info window tells me
[10:53] <omeg> Great!
[10:53] <omeg> I'm glad that it's right.
[10:53] <ogra> so here it seems ok
[10:54] <omeg> Photoshop is just really incapable of editing 16-color palette files without using "Save for Web" then (which ruins the palette by reordering it per frequency, which is actually against the PNG specification).
[10:55] <ogra> yeah, gimp rules for web graphics development (while it totally sucks for professional print stuff)
[10:55] <ogra> s/web/screen/
[10:55] <sladen> is there a nice tool for producing split patches from  cvs rdiff  anywhere?
[10:57] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/edu_newsuggestion_0_8_FIXED.png
[10:57] <omeg> I think this is fixed.
[10:58] <ogra> omeg, Indexed Color (256 colors) :(
[10:58] <omeg> I've tried to seriously use GIMP only twice, so I'm nobody to judge, but its interface seems a little strange to me. I work as a designer so I doubt I'd ever be making the switch, though.
[10:58] <omeg> I don't see how it's even possible.
[10:59] <omeg> Yep, seems like it...
[10:59] <omeg> Arrrgh
[11:00] <jcole> are you trying to reduce the colors in gimp?
[11:00] <jcole> that has never worked well for me
[11:01] <omeg> No, Photoshop.
[11:05] <sladen> omeg: people are generally happy with whatever they used first.  After 8 years of using GIMP I will (and do) have a hard trouble with Photoshop.  (Indeed, I get exasparated that Photoshop can't do basic things like palette editing :)
[11:05] <omeg> Yeah, I guess. I really don't like the fact that Gimp's separate windows also have separate task bar entries, though.
[11:05] <omeg> My friend told me that PNGCRUSH can probably fix my palette for me.
[11:05] <jcole> convert $BACKGROUND.png $BACKGROUND.jpg
[11:05] <jcole> convert -colors 14 $BACKGROUND.jpg $BACKGROUND.png
[11:05] <jcole> pngtopnm $BACKGROUND.png | ppmtolss16 "#000000=0" "#ffffff=7" | lss16toppm | pnmtopng > $BACKGROUND.png
[11:05] <jcole> convert -colors 14 $BACKGROUND.png $BACKGROUND.png
[11:05] <jcole> (sorry for the flood)
[11:06] <jcole> omeg: ^^^
[11:06] <omeg> Hmm?
[11:06] <omeg> JPG?
[11:06] <jcole> ya
[11:06] <sladen> omeg: you're lucky they even *have* menu bars.  the menu bars only came in the last year or so---before that everything was via a right-click;  which is still the mode I use it in
[11:06] <jcole> it removes the transparent png stuff
[11:06] <jcole> it's a hack
[11:07] <omeg> But won't that cause major artifacts?
[11:07] <ogra> jcole, and that will preserve the right order for the text printing etc ?
[11:07] <ogra> remember we talk about usplash ;)
[11:08] <ogra> sladen++
[11:09] <ssam> omeg, you could put a "--quality 100" in the first convert command, to use the least jpg compression
[11:10] <omeg> Maybe jcole could try it for me. I don't have those "convert" and "pngtopnm" programs.
[11:10] <jcole> omeg: apt-get install imagemagick netpbm syslinux
[11:10] <jcole> omeg: but i'll hack at it also :)
[11:11] <omeg> Awesome. I'll try that if pngcrush fails.
[11:11] <sladen> ssam: you don't even need the first two lines.  completely ignore them---they're for people wanted to take $some_random_jpg_photo 
[11:12] <jcole> $ file edu_newsuggestion_0_8_FIXED.png
[11:12] <jcole> edu_newsuggestion_0_8_FIXED.png: PNG image data, 640 x 400, 8-bit colormap, non-interlaced
[11:12] <jcole> it's 256 color palette
[11:13] <sladen> jcole: it could probably be fine to convert to straight;  the 14 colours are all in the first 16 anyway
[11:13] <omeg> It needs to be a 4-bit PNG with the 16 colors in the exact same order as the source file.
[11:14] <sladen> omeg: obviously the palette needs to be correct, but the 4-bit may not matter, so long as it is indexed
[11:15] <omeg> Well, the palette is already in correct order, it's just that there are 240 colors after them.
[11:16] <jcole> omeg: got it -> edu_newsuggestion_0_8_FIXED.tmp.png
[11:16] <jcole> err
[11:17] <jcole> omeg: http://jcole.org/edu_newsuggestion_0_8_FIXED.tmp.png
[11:17] <jcole> omeg: pngtopnm edu_newsuggestion_0_8_FIXED.png | ppmtolss16 "#000000=0" "#ffffff=7" | lss16toppm | pnmtopng > edu_newsuggestion_0_8_FIXED.tmp.png
[11:17] <omeg> Wow, I think that this indeed did the trick.
[11:18] <ogra> jcole, the palette order is still the same ? 
[11:18] <omeg> But it would appear that there are 14 colors now?
[11:18] <jcole> omeg: 15 actually
[11:18] <omeg> No, 15.
[11:18] <ogra> gimp says 15
[11:18] <omeg> Hmm.
[11:18] <sladen> jcole: except that you overwrote the existing text palette entry with white.  was that intended?
[11:18] <omeg> I guess it needs an extra 16th color, then.
[11:18] <ogra> i' also worried about the palette
[11:18] <ogra> since thats the whole purpose of it 
[11:19] <omeg> Thanks a lot, though! I'll add that extra color. I doubt the palette will be broken by that.
[11:19] <ogra> (making the usplash text readable through the right order)
[11:19] <jcole> i simple "convert -colors 16 edu_newsuggestion_0_8_FIXED.png edu_newsuggestion_0_8_FIXED.tmp.png" did that
[11:20] <jcole> download the file again
[11:20] <_ion> Sigh. The problem with the savage driver doesn't seem to be fixed in CVS.
[11:21] <KaiL> great new ubuntu gnome splashscreen  (if the person, who made it, is here ;)
[11:21] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/edu_FIXED.png <-- one last check just to make sure, then? I added a 16th color (which is used on only one pixel)
[11:22] <omeg> You mean the one that shows up when X is being started (after logging in), KaiL?
[11:22] <KaiL> omeg, yes
[11:22] <mdke> yes, very nice artwork all round
[11:22] <Kamion> BenC: argh, the kernel failed to build on amd64 and powerpc
[11:22] <omeg> Oh, too bad ;) I made another splash screen. But yeah, that one is also very nice.
[11:22] <ogra> omeg, looks good
[11:23] <ogra> i'll do a testbuild 
[11:23] <BenC> Kamion: yeah, I see...fixing it up...it's silly crap too
[11:23] <Kamion> ABI changes in both cases
[11:23] <Kamion> are they real ABI breaks?
[11:23] <KaiL> everybody makes better splashscreens, but nobody wants to make a not black usplash? ;)
[11:24] <Kamion> KaiL: black is good, stops the border being visible
[11:24] <omeg> Well, there are non-black usplash propositions, but apparently it's not entirely flawless on most systems. That's why it'll probably happen only for Edgy, if at all.
[11:24] <mdz> back
[11:24] <KaiL> Kamion, seen suse 10.1?
[11:24] <Kamion> on many systems anything other than black is really ugly
[11:24] <KaiL> there's not much good on their distribution, but the sclash looks great
[11:24] <Kamion> KaiL: no, but if it uses a non-black splash then I bet I can show you systems where it's ugly
[11:24] <Kamion> KaiL: on your system, the splash probably reaches roughly to the edge of the monitor
[11:25] <mdz> KaiL: the artist isn't here, but I'll pass on your comments
[11:25] <mdke> KaiL: usplash has been discussed to death, let's move on now
[11:25] <Kamion> KaiL: it is not at all uncommon for this not to happen, and for the splash to occupy a relatively small area in the middle of the screen
[11:25] <Kamion> with a black background, you don't notice this, and it looks more stylish on those monitors as a result
[11:25] <KaiL> Kamion, that should only happen with vga= set, or?
[11:25] <omeg> ogra: if you can make test builds easily, can you also test the Xubuntu splash? http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/xu_newsuggestion_0_8_FIXED.png
[11:25] <Kamion> KaiL: nope
[11:25] <omeg> I think that this is the fixed version of Xu splash.
[11:26] <jcole> wow, you guys have been busy, went to javaone on thursday and missed a few hundred mb of updates since then :)
[11:26] <KaiL> jcole, only? ;)
[11:27] <KaiL> hmm, my test-laptop here has the black usplash - when was that? week ago? or better "200MB ago"? ;)
[11:27] <Kamion> KaiL: we used to see this effect on the CD splash screen, too; now it has a black background and it's much less noticeable
[11:28] <mdz> reboot time
[11:28] <KaiL> oops, good guess - 181MB ;)
[11:29] <omeg> I guess that turning off digest mode for the mailing list will cause me to receive all mails live?
[11:30] <Kamion> yes
[11:31] <omeg> That's better.
[11:31] <KaiL> and brings some action to bored mail servers ;)
[11:31] <ogra> ubuntu-art is not that high traffic
[11:31] <omeg> Yeah, I'm always waiting for mailing list digests at work.
[11:32] <omeg> Boring otherwise. :)
[11:33] <KaiL> about the new logout-button: isn't that one a bit too colourful?
[11:34] <omeg> I don't really like the new logout dialog, actually. I prefer a list of text.
[11:34] <omeg> I also think the shadows are too heavy.
[11:34] <KaiL> that too
[11:34] <omeg> All things I intend to extensively write about from a designer's point of view for Edgy. But definitely too late to change now.
[11:35] <KaiL> at least dapper artwork is a very bit steap ahead compared with breezy
[11:35] <KaiL> very big step... late in europe
[11:38] <omeg> I've got some issues with the new theme.
[11:39] <omeg> I think I'll like working on an alternative proposal. My main beef with it is that the color orange for the title bar is very bright, and the text is white.
[11:41] <sladen> Log out and Lock Screen really need switching
[11:41] <sladen> the least intrusive should be on the left, and the most intrusive (Log out, Shutdown) on the right
[11:42] <KaiL> hmm.. looks like the translations need a lot more promotion for edgy - only one language above 90% :/
[11:42] <KaiL> sladen, the it would be lock, switch, logout in the first row?
[11:42] <_ion> I'd prefer "Lock screen, Switch user, Log out"
[11:42] <KaiL> +n
[11:42] <crimsun> sladen: no one begins on the right and works left (I'm thinking bidi)?
[11:42] <omeg> If you were to ask me what Ubuntu is, I'd say that it's a good, new-fashioned operating system with good, old-fashioned mannerisms. Which is a great thing. Some of the recent Dapper developments have steered it slightly away from the latter.
[11:43] <KaiL> omeg, like?
[11:44] <KaiL> except, that I guess, everybody has at least one bug, he (or she) doesn't understand, why it didn't get fixed - as always..:)
[11:44] <BenC> Kamion: ok, uploaded...note these aren't "build failures", they are unexpected variations in the ABI, like some rtc functions moving from module to vmlinux :/
[11:45] <BenC> sucks that this got so ugly for a few config changes and no real code changes
[11:45] <omeg> Like, as I mentioned, the title bar that's too bright (it actually fails a color brightness treshold check suggested by the W3C). Or the new logout screen. The latter heavily relies on art but, in my opinion, seems to negatively alter the actual usability of the dialog. Or the tooltips that show up immediately over the top menu items. Or the gradient in those tooltips.
[11:45] <KaiL> huh? Still kernel work?
[11:46] <omeg> Or the border around the windows in the new Dapper theme. It's grey, but it's made to look as if it's almost not there. This causes a strange effect to appear when you actually do notice that it's there. These seem like personal preference issues, but I'll write about those things more in-depth later, after things cool down a little bit and we can begin to think about Edgy.
[11:47] <omeg> I believe that if I can convey what I mean from a usability point of view, people will agree with me or at least start a dialogue about how we could make the interface even better. That's the area I want to commit myself to for Edgy.
[11:47] <KaiL> the problem with this border is, that you can't life without one (technically) in X, but it normally looks awefull and is useless
[11:48] <omeg> Would you recon it was useless in the old Breezy theme, or is in other operating systems that it's seen in (Windows NT, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X (metallic windows))?
[11:48] <KaiL> Mac OS X has no border...
[11:49] <omeg> The metallic windows do.
[11:49] <KaiL> as you can best see in Safari
[11:49] <KaiL> "metallic"? Theme?
[11:49] <omeg> Open a Finder window in Mac OS 10.4.
[11:49] <omeg> Or see here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/TigerDesk.png
[11:50] <KaiL> ah, yes
[11:50] <omeg> The thing is, there still is a border; but it's being pretended like it isn't there. Why, I'd ask.
[11:50] <omeg> (In the Dapper theme.)
[11:50] <KaiL> sometimes it has, sometimes not.. interesting
[11:50] <omeg> It hasn't got a border if you choose to use a small window (switched with the top-right button on the windows).
[11:50] <omeg> E.g. the window at the center of the screen is in small mode.
[11:51] <omeg> Safari doesn't have the border either.
[11:51] <ogra> omeg, dark brown font, white porgessbar background and yellow progress indicator in edubuntu ...
[11:51] <omeg> Ahhhh
[11:51] <KaiL> ;)
[11:51] <ogra> the only readable thing was the "failed" message of my disabled dhcp server
[11:51] <omeg> Hmm. So I'll have to fix.
[11:51] <omeg> Okay, so what exactly is wrong?
[11:52] <ogra> as suspected, the palette was shuffled by convert
[11:52] <omeg> But the logo itself looked okay?
[11:52] <ogra> the default font uses a dark brown
[11:52] <ogra> the logo is fine
[11:52] <ogra> and the yellow on white progeress looks cool as well
[11:53] <ogra> its only the default font color
[11:53] <omeg> Well, yellow on white, that sounds scary.
[11:53] <omeg> Or at least not as how I envisioned it. That would kind of spoil consistency. I'll try to fix it.
[11:53] <ogra> ok
[11:53] <ogra> but majorly the font is an issue ...
[11:54] <omeg> Could you test the Xubuntu splash to see if that one works? Or is it a lot of work?
[11:55] <ogra> i'm not really fond of breaking my test setup currently since i'm working on finalizing the edubuntu CD
[11:55] <ogra> i could build a ppc xubuntu-artwork-usplash if you find anyone to test it
[11:56] <ogra> (no other build machione around currently)
[11:56] <omeg> I'll just test it by looking at the palette.
[11:56] <ogra> hmm, janimo seems gone ... :/
[11:58] <omeg> Okay. So I think that Xubuntu is correct.
[11:58] <omeg> Let's check Edu.
[11:58] <ogra> mdz, did you do livefs builds for the derivatives as well ? or was that only ubuntu
[11:59] <omeg> Hmm. 8 --> 4...
[12:07] <sladen> Kamion: is the cronjob running again?  I haven't since any emails from Ubuntu Installer for a few hours
[12:08] <sladen> Kamion: oh, conincidence.  Got one in the last 15seconds
[12:12] <omeg> ogra: I think I've fixed it.
[12:12] <ogra> lets see :)
[12:12] <omeg> I'm uploading it now. It's past midnight here. How long will it take you to see if it's really okay now?
[12:13] <ogra> omeg, i'm in germany i know the time ;)
[12:13] <omeg> Ah, okay :)
[12:13] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/edu_FIXED_retry.png
[12:13] <omeg> Here it is.
[12:14] <omeg> If it will take you longer than, say, 20 minutes to test, then I'd like to go to sleep. I've got lots of stuff to do tomorrow...
[12:15] <ogra> building now ...
[12:16] <omeg> Hmm, seems Viper550 voted for the other Xubuntu splash :P
[12:17] <omeg> Well, I guess there will be more votes tomorrow.
[12:17] <ogra> i didnt like his colors for the edu splash
[12:18] <ogra> somehow tan (or pastel pink or how you wanna call it) doesnt work well with yellow
[12:18] <omeg> I haven't seen it, but I doubt it does.
[12:19] <sladen> where is this vote?
[12:19] <ogra> omeg, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/DapperPropositions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=v550_eduratio.png
[12:19] <omeg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuUsplash
[12:20] <omeg> Ick. Now that I see it again, actually, I do realize that I've seen it.
[12:20] <ogra> :)
[12:20] <omeg> Seems to be off-center.
[12:20] <ogra> thats a color combo nobody forgets i guess :)
[12:21] <omeg> It's 20 pixels off-center.
[12:22] <omeg> Give or take about 4 pixels because the logo should be centered using the logo's circle radius rather than the "head" to the far left, but that's still a lot. I wonder if he even tested it before saving.
[12:23] <ogra> i doubt it
[12:23] <ogra> he even sent truecolor proposals in the beginning
[12:25] <Riddell> infinity, Kamion, anyone around who can rebuild the livefs for kubuntu?
[12:26] <omeg> You know what really bothers me?
[12:26] <omeg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperPropositionsClean?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=d_final_v550_ubuntu.png <-- viper 550's Ubuntu splash proposal's gradient is off-center, too.
[12:26] <omeg> The gradient isn't centered at the middle of the logo.
[12:27] <ogra> yep
[12:27] <omeg> Upon further inspection, it seems that the image is 641x400 and 10 pixels off-center.
[12:28] <ogra> installing the testpackage ...
[12:28] <omeg> Awesome. I can't wait.
[12:28] <Kamion> Riddell: I've started off a build
[12:28] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks
[12:29] <Kamion> although the cron job would fire in four or five hours anyway
[12:29] <ogra> Kamion, ah, i was about to ask
[12:29] <Kamion> keep an eye on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/liveLogs/dapper/kubuntu/latest/ to see when it's done; I'll be in bed before that
[12:29] <Riddell> well, I'll be asleep by then with any luck :)
[12:29] <ogra> when is ETA for them to be switched off
[12:29] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[12:29] <Kamion> ogra: "later"
[12:29] <ogra> *good* :)
[12:36] <Burgundavia> sladen, did you still want to play with the faq on the website?
[12:37] <sladen> Burgundavia: the shipit faq.  Yes, I was going to
[12:37] <sladen> Burgundavia: what's the raw URL again?
[12:38] <Burgundavia> sladen, http://www.ubuntu.com/support/faq?action=raw
[12:38] <Burgundavia> send me the diff
[12:41] <omeg> And?
[12:41] <ogra> omeg, no change ...
[12:41] <omeg> Huh
[12:42] <omeg> How's that possible? Did you hard refresh when you obtained the new image?
[12:42] <ogra> yep
[12:42] <ogra> i didnt see a "failed" might be that its dark as well now
[12:42] <omeg> Well then let's have a look again.
[12:42] <omeg> Failed should be brighter
[12:43] <omeg> Okay now let's see.
[12:43] <omeg> Background color: 000000. Correct.
[12:43] <omeg> Progress bar foreground color: efb631. Correct.
[12:44] <omeg> Right status text foreground color: 392008. Correct.
[12:44] <omeg> Progress bar background color: 1c1004. Correct.
[12:44] <sladen> ogra: update-initramfs ?
[12:44] <omeg> Was the progress bar background color white?
[12:45] <ogra> sladen, even dpkg-reconfigure linux-blah....
[12:45] <ogra> omeg, yep
[12:45] <omeg> Left text status foreground color: 794d14. Correct.
[12:45] <ogra> or a very light yellow or khaki
[12:45] <omeg> And the last is a66d1c.
[12:46] <omeg> The image is correct. There's no doubt about it. I checked all colors in GIMP, and as you can confirm, they're right where they're supposed to be.
[12:46] <ogra> i think taking the latter for the left status text would make it readable
[12:46] <sladen> ogra: write  "FOOBAR" on it in big letters and see if that shows up
[12:46] <omeg> There's no white color near the background color for the progress bar.
[12:46] <ogra> #392008 seems to be the color all text has currently
[12:47] <omeg> Just to be certain, this is the link you used? http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/edu_FIXED_retry.png
[12:47] <omeg> Here's a mirror: http://avalanchestudios.net/uploads/edu_FIXED_retry.png
[12:48] <omeg> I'm following what's said on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/DapperPropositions
[12:49] <omeg> Or here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USplashCustomizationHowto
[12:49] <omeg> I just don't get it.
[12:49] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages/edubuntu-artwork-0.1.0$ ls -l edu_*
[12:49] <ogra> -rw-r--r-- 1 ogra ogra 5812 2006-05-23 00:13 edu_FIXED_retry.png
[12:49] <omeg> I don't see what else could be wrong besides the usplash accidentally being built with an old version. Maybe you should ask infinity.
[12:49] <ogra> apparently the right one
[12:49] <omeg> Can you check in GIMP for me to see if the colors are correctly palettized?
[12:50] <omeg> Because it would appear so in GIMP.
[12:50] <omeg> On my end.
[12:50] <ogra> it wouldnt build the package with more than 16 cols
[12:50] <ogra> yep, gimp agrees here
[12:50] <kmr> jcole: if you're using imagemagick for converting an image to an icc profile with perlmagick, you'll want to use the patch I submitted on launchpad for imagemagick to fix an assertation failure
[12:51] <omeg> ogra: wouldn't build the package with more than 16 cols? Hmm?
[12:51] <omeg> That image does have 16 colors. 0 - 15.
[12:51] <omeg> Did it give an error?
[12:51] <kmr> jcole: not sure, though, if the imagemagick maintainer will ever put the bug fix in the ubuntu package
[12:51] <ogra> omeg, nope, thats what i'm saying
[12:52] <ogra> so its correctly 18 colors palletized
[12:52] <ogra> err
[12:52] <ogra> 16
[12:52] <ogra> indeed :)
[12:52] <omeg> It would appear that way.
[12:52] <omeg> I don't get it... so the image is fine on your end too?
[12:52] <ogra> yep
[12:53] <ogra> but it definately uses 392008 for all text
[12:54] <omeg> Hmm.
[12:54] <omeg> Well, I doubt that I could do anything about that. I'm sure infinity could help you out. He built my other Ubuntu splash earlier and tested it. It worked fine for him. He could probably fix up the colors if they're faulty, too.
[12:56] <ogra> yep, i'll talk to him... 
[01:01] <sivang> night all
[01:04] <omeg> Well, I hope you succeed, ogra. I'll come by tomorrow morning at 8 AM. Maybe if you're there, you can tell me if you got any further. Though I guess you too are going to stop working now and go to sleep. Maybe you can e-mail infinity and ask him to do it, since he lives in Australia.
[01:05] <ogra> omeg, unlikely you'll see me that early 
[01:05] <omeg> Well, then I just wish you good luck! It'd be a shame if such a bug were to mess things up. Well, I'll see you later.
[01:05] <ogra> i usually dont go to bed before 3/4am german time 
[01:05] <omeg> I don't know how you do it :P
[01:05] <omeg> Bye
[01:05] <ogra> ciao
[01:05] <ogra> and thanks !
[01:11] <dAndy> Kamion: I added the sources.list from the broken install to bug #46052
[01:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46052 in debian-installer "FTP Support in Kickstart Stops working part way through the install" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46052
[01:22] <BenC> Kamion: The 2.6.15-38 build should be perfect, so consider it the final
[01:22] <BenC> 2.6.15-23.38 I mean :)
[01:28] <ogra> Riddell, wow, i was already wondering how you survive with so many languages on the CD :)
[01:28] <Riddell> ogra: was doing fine until last week
[01:29] <ogra> i'm happy to have english left :)
[01:29] <Riddell> just so long as you keep in British English, that's all I need :)
[01:31] <sladen> Riddell: there's no screenshots linked from http://www.kubuntu.org/
[01:32] <pianoboy3333> Does anyone here use pynotify?
[01:34] <Riddell> sladen: a link to osdir good enough you think?
[01:35] <sladen> Kamion: what are the new names.  Desktop CD and Alternate Install CD ?
[01:35] <sladen> Riddell: anything, as long as searching for 'screenshot' in the page finds it
[01:36] <Riddell> I think Kamion will be snoozing
[01:36] <Riddell> but those are the names he announce on ubuntu-devel-announce
[01:37] <sladen> ogra: do you have a Desktop CD for Edubuntu, or only an Alternate install CD.  Or an install CD ?
[01:37] <ogra> i have a live and install CD ;)
[01:37] <ogra> like breezy had
[01:38] <ogra> edubuntu didnt change the scheme, since we only ship the install CD through shipit, thats our default
[01:44] <sladen> so Ubuntu, Kubuntu are only shipping Desktop CDs (not Alternate).  Edubuntu is only shipping Install CDs (not Live).  Xubuntu to download only.
[01:47] <neuralis> sladen: have a second?
[01:49] <sladen> neuralis: ask away
[01:49] <neuralis> sladen: don't know if you saw the discussion above where i pang you, re: dualhead. 
[01:50] <Riddell> sladen: that's right
[01:50] <Riddell> sladen: and kubuntu doesn't have shipit for ppc
[01:50] <neuralis> sladen: intel 915gm, dualhead, video playback completely broken on external flat panel; 100% cpu usage, no video.
[01:51] <neuralis> sladen: same config's been working fine since warty. any ideas?
[01:52] <sladen> neuralis: repeatable?
[01:52] <sladen> neuralis: what version of  xserver-xorg-driver-i810 ?
[01:52] <neuralis> sladen: yes, fully. 
[01:53] <neuralis> Version: 1:1.4.1.3-0ubuntu5
[01:53] <sladen> neuralis: does it actually crash, or just use 100% CPU ?
[01:53] <neuralis> no crash, just 100% cpu usage until the video player is killed (and the video player isn't showing video in the mean time.)
[01:54] <sladen> neuralis: can you check what process is using 100% CPU?  It could be the playback software switching to a software-decode
[01:55] <neuralis> well, it's the xv output that seems to break things; x11 works (still hogs cpu, but actually shows video)
[01:55] <sladen> neuralis: there is only one scaler, so Xv will only work on 1 head at once
[01:55] <sladen> neuralis: did you file a bug yet
[01:56] <neuralis> sladen: no, i've been trying to track down what exactly is the issue for the past few days, and to verify that it's not specific to my setup
[01:57] <neuralis> sladen: mind you, this has worked properly since warty, so i'm not sure where the 1 scaler business comes in
[02:04] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[02:04] <tseng> hi
[02:12] <jsgotangco> hi
[02:12] <neuralis> sladen: i'll file against x-x-d-i. anything you want me to attach?
[02:14] <sladen> neuralis: even if it is specific to your laptop, it is still a bug and still needs filing!
[02:14] <ajmitch> afternoon
[02:15] <sladen> neuralis: can you attach  lspci -vn   and your /var/log/Xorg.0.log  along with any output from running xine on the second head
[02:15] <sladen> neuralis: and a paste showing the CPU percentage from 'top'
[02:15] <neuralis> sladen: everyone's busy. i'd rather do my legwork before screaming 'bug' in a crowded theater that's about to release a major motion picture in 8 days.
[02:16] <sladen> neuralis: oh!  and your xorg.conf!:)
[02:16] <bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
[02:16] <neuralis> sladen: will do.
[02:20] <jcole> infinity: can i ping you for 10 seconds? i just want you to verify something.. 4 lines
[02:21] <jcole> infinity: i just don't want to sit here staring at the screen for 6 hours and it not work
[02:22] <jcole> (4 line flood alert)
[02:22] <jcole> apt-get source linux-source-2.6.15; cd linux-source-2.6.15-2.6.15
[02:22] <jcole> cp /boot/config-`uname -r` .config; echo "CONFIG_REGPARM=y" >> .config
[02:22] <jcole> dch #(bump ABI from 23 to 123)
[02:22] <jcole> fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage
[02:24] <jcole> it's building now
[02:35] <jcole> wow, looks like it's going to build 80+ .deb packages
[02:37] <jcole> 8 hours
[03:04] <bluefoxicy> Hey does anyone know where daniels gets the source for xserver-xorg-driver-via, and how I would go about attempting to build myself a copy of the latest version?
[03:04] <lifeless> it should be in the copyright file, or a watch file, in the source package
[03:05] <bluefoxicy> Dapper's got 0.1.33.2 and it's not working too great (100% CPU usage in glxgears or with xcompmgr -c, armagetron immediately chokes the X server to death), and cvs has version 0.2.1 or so so I figure I'll try building it while I wait for him to build xorg 7.1 some time mid-Edgy :P
[03:05] <bluefoxicy> lifeless:  I'll look... watch file???
[03:05] <tseng> wow
[03:06] <tseng> glxgears in xgl gives 100% cpu, news at 11
[03:06] <bluefoxicy> no, not in Xgl
[03:06] <bluefoxicy> in normal X, with direct rendering enabled
[03:07] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ glxinfo |grep direct
[03:07] <bluefoxicy> direct rendering: Yes
[03:07] <tseng> me too and i only get 13%
[03:08] <tseng> xcompmgr i meant
[03:08] <apokryphos> no direct rendering in xgl ;-)
[03:08] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  nods.  It's a new driver, the version Ubuntu ships is probably incomplete.  *shrug*  Not important.
[03:09] <bluefoxicy> lifeless: what's a watch file?  :)
[03:09] <apokryphos> and Xgl isn't much of a hassle to install, really, depending on your card; eyecandy is good though, and not always pointless at all
[03:09] <tseng> debian/watch
[03:09] <tseng> its a text file
[03:09] <bluefoxicy> ah, thanks.
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> no README, COPYING is a stub, and there's no debian/watch
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> meh
[03:19] <sladen> mhmm:  host shipit.xubuntu.org  exists
[03:20] <sladen> bluefoxicy: cvs -z9 -d :pserver:anoncvs@cvs.freedesktop.org:/cvs/xorg co driver/xf86-video-via
[03:20] <bluefoxicy> I would rather be able to hit shipit.ubuntu.org and request a mix and match of ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu/edubuntu
[03:21] <sladen> r.
[03:28] <netdur> at my firefox there no web page open... but statusbar says it transfer data from stat3.cybermonitor.com
[03:29] <netdur> should I open bug about this? it may be spyware!!! I use updated dapper
[03:29] <bluefoxicy> ATTN:  Ubuntu is now a mainstream operating system.  We have spyware infections.  Congratulations.
[03:31] <netdur> I'm serious... I got screenshot!!!
[03:40] <jcole> crap
[03:41] <crimsun> netdur: do you have tcpdump evidence for it, too?
[03:41] <jcole> make[1] : Leaving directory `/home/jcole/kern_source/linux-source-2.6.15-2.6.15/debian/build/build-686'
[03:41] <jcole> ABI has changed!  Refusing to continue; please update the ABINAME accordingly.
[03:41] <jcole> brb
[03:44] <netdur> crimsun, what's tcpdump?
[03:45] <crimsun> netdur: a tool that you should use to verify that stat3.cybermonitor.com is actually being contacted. Please migrate this issue to #ubuntu.
[03:46] <netdur> never mind!
[03:47] <sladen> neuralis: that appears to be a internet cafe billing software site
[03:55] <bluefoxicy> haha
[04:04] <neuralis> sladen: huh?
[04:16] <sladen> neuralis: netdur.
[04:17] <neuralis> ah.
[04:36] <sladen> Burgundavia: this page looked innocent, but it's a massive hunk of text (5k words)... remind me to carry on slogging another time
[04:50] <tsume> anyone a grub devel here?
[06:13] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:15] <bddebian> Hello fabbione
[07:25] <pitti> Good morning
[07:25] <fabbione> heypitti
[07:26] <jsgotangco> hey pitti
[07:26] <ajmitch> morning pitti
[07:26] <pitti> hi guys!
[07:56] <Burgundavia> sladen, will do
[08:01] <omeg> Hey guys
[08:01] <imbrandon> 'ello
[08:01] <infinity> Hey dude.
[08:01] <omeg> So, any news on Edubuntu's usplash? Anybody know if ogra got it fixed?
[08:01] <omeg> Hi infinity
[08:02] <infinity> ogra uploaded something.  No idea what.
[08:02] <omeg> Well, he was working on the edu live CD, I think.
[08:02] <infinity> I mean he "uploaded a change to his splash, no idea what". :)
[08:03] <infinity> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-May/011417.html
[08:03] <omeg> Ah, looks like he didn't get it fixed, then.
[08:03] <omeg> (He says "still some font issues to resolve.")
[08:03] <infinity> I'm guessing it needed reindexing?
[08:04] <omeg> Strangely enough, I had manually checked the image like twice. It seemed as though all the palette colors were in the right place.
[08:04] <omeg> Still there were problems, like the progress bar background color being bright yellow.
[08:05] <infinity> Curious.  I'll have to download it and have a look in a bit.
[08:06] <omeg> I'll grab the correct link for the image.
[08:06] <infinity> Can you give me the hex RGB for the "right" colours in the right places?
[08:06] <omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/edu_FIXED_retry.png
[08:06] <omeg> Yes, I'll regrab them.
[08:06] <infinity> Cool.  I'll go hunt some breakfast.  Back in 10.
[08:07] <omeg> Okay :)
[08:07] <omeg> I'll PM it to you.
[08:08] <jsgotangco> well the splash for edubuntu is much better now compared yesterday
[08:12] <omeg> Hmm
[08:12] <omeg> Looks like there are still only two Xubuntu splash votes.
[08:16] <infinity> Has anyone voted for yours?
[08:17] <omeg> I left a comment there to say that I think people should consider consistency, but I guess that can't really count as vote. I just reposted the link on the art list.
[08:17] <omeg> Maybe people from the art list aren't that interested in Xubuntu.
[08:18] <omeg> Huh
[08:18] <omeg> In response to the link for Xubuntu splash voting, someone mailed the following:
[08:18] <omeg> a link to the ubutnu one ?
[08:18] <omeg> thanks
[08:18] <omeg> ciao 
[08:20] <infinity> I voted on the wiki for yours.
[08:22] <omeg> Thanks. :)
[08:22] <omeg> 40 minutes before usplash voting for Ubuntu finishes.
[08:23] <infinity> omeg: Where is that taking place?
[08:23] <omeg> I guess I'm thankful that then this will finally be finished. So that fun things can be worked on.
[08:23] <omeg> Via e-mail.
[08:24] <omeg> Let me forward you the post.
[08:24] <infinity> On the -art list?
[08:24] <ajmitch> hi dholbach 
[08:24] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[08:24] <dholbach> good morning everybody
[08:25] <omeg> adconrad AT ubuntu DOT com?
[08:25] <omeg> infinity: yeah
[08:25] <infinity> omeg: That'll do, yes.
[08:25] <Keybuk> infinity: does infinity@ubuntu.com not work?  you should get elmo to look at that :p
[08:26] <omeg> Sent.
[08:26] <omeg> Heh
[08:26] <infinity> Keybuk: I've never had an urge to have infinity@, or I would have asked for it.  Do you have keybuk@?
[08:27] <Keybuk> infinity: I think I do
[08:27] <Keybuk> I may not have
[08:28] <nomed> omeg: i'll post in xubuntu-devel ...
[08:28] <omeg> Didn't Janimo already do that, though?
[08:29] <nomed> ummm .. i may be wrong .. but i didn't see it.
[08:30] <nomed> anyway in general we'd like to have the same as ubuntu but with xubuntu colors and logo
[08:30] <omeg> Seems that he didn't, indeed.
[08:31] <omeg> Yeah, I've tried my best to keep the same colors. They're arguably not as close to the logo's colors as the other splash screen, but to keep consistency with the other usplashes and make it stand out on the black easier, I made the logo a little brighter. The highlights almost go into white.
[08:32] <omeg> The hues are the same as the steel look, though.
[08:33] <infinity> I just like that the mouse looks like a mouse on your splash.  I'm easy to please.
[08:34] <janimo> mouse?where?
[08:34] <dholbach> hey janimo!
[08:34] <omeg> Hi janimo :)
[08:34] <infinity> Or whatever rodent it's meant to be. :)
[08:34] <janimo> dholbach.omeg: hey
[08:34] <nomed> ehehe 
[08:34] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, hello Jani
[08:34] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: hey
[08:35] <janimo> is a new xubuntu splash being discussed?
[08:35] <janimo> nomed, satisfied with current settings manager looks?
[08:35] <nomed> janimo: it seems nobodies care that much
[08:35] <infinity> janimo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuUsplash
[08:36] <infinity> janimo: Vote for the same one I voted for and I won't break your livefs builds...
[08:36] <nomed> janimo: if dholbach will accept it i'd a have a little patch ...
[08:36] <infinity> *cough*
[08:36] <dholbach> nomed: for what?
[08:36] <nomed> janimo: anyway we got what i would :)
[08:36] <nomed> still icon-naming ..
[08:36] <dholbach> nomed: for the xubuntu icons?
[08:36] <nomed> yep
[08:36] <dholbach> nomed: I applied the patch from CVS already
[08:36] <janimo> hmm I think  liked omeg's yesterday
[08:37] <nomed> each patch i sent to you i usually send then to upstreamer too ...
[08:37] <mdz> morning
[08:37] <dholbach> morning Matt
[08:37] <nomed> dholbach: yep .. but there is one more 
[08:37] <janimo> morning mdz
[08:37] <dholbach> nomed: send it to me, I'll have a look
[08:38] <nomed> sure.
[08:38] <dholbach> mdz: just preparing another ubuntu-artwork update (some SVGs they sent)
[08:38] <imbrandon> morning mdz
[08:38] <nomed> i'll do that this evening .. when i'll have the time to check it .. so hopefully it'll be the last one
[08:39] <mdz> ogra: I'm not sure which livefs were built apart from Ubuntu; Kamion ran the build
[08:39] <infinity> janimo: Well, if you and nomed like omeg's and the art team isn't interested in Xubuntu at all, I'd call that concensus.
[08:39] <janimo> infinity: yup, I htink I'l lupload this soon
[08:40] <mdz> infinity: any love from oo.o?
[08:41] <infinity> mdz: The sort of love that hits you when it comes home from the bar at 3am.
[08:41] <mdz> infinity: exactly the same failure then?
[08:41] <infinity> mdz: I'm rerunning test builds right now AGAIN.  Clearly something went wrong last night (or I was half asleep when I started them)
[08:41] <fabbione> morning mdz
[08:42] <infinity> I'm doing -l10n on terranova, since it's an SMP machine, and -l10n has code to take advantage of that.
[08:42] <infinity> So, hopefully they'll both get in today.
[08:43] <janimo> omeg: did you test the splash?
[08:44] <janimo> is there a link to current ubuntu/edubuntu splashes in the wiki?
[08:44] <omeg> Xubuntu one? No, I haven't tested it. I checked the colors which seem to be correct, though. I don't know how to build new usplash binaries.
[08:44] <omeg> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperPropositionsClean for the Dapper Propositions page.
[08:44] <janimo> omeg: but besides the color are the proprtions the same as on the other splashes?
[08:44] <janimo> ok
[08:46] <mdz> infinity: my local build (i386-on-amd64 SMP) failed, but I can't see why from the output
[08:46] <infinity> mdz: Erk, so not in the usual spot?
[08:46] <mdz> ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making /home/mdz/src/openoffice.org-2.0.2/ooo-build/build/oob680-m5/ucb/source/cacher
[08:46] <omeg> Yeah, they're all squished to adhere to the screen stretching.
[08:46] <mdz> "gee, thanks"
[08:46] <infinity> mdz: Is it too late to drop OOo from the distribution? :)
[08:47] <Keybuk> pitti: language-pack-kde-tl-*, language-pack-gnome-{oc,dv}* to main>?
[08:50] <infinity> pitti: No more mass langpack updates for a day or two, I hope? :)
[08:51] <infinity> mdz: So, based on your above "morning", does that mean you also are pretending to be European for the release crunch?
[08:51] <infinity> mdz: Or are you just suffering sleep issues? :)
[08:52] <Mithrandir> infinity: I think he's in London
[08:52] <infinity> Ahh, that would do it.
[08:52] <infinity> Somewhere in the back of my mind, I knew that.
[08:52] <infinity> Memory retention--
[08:52] <Keybuk> infinity: they say it's the first thing to go
[08:52] <infinity> Hey now.  I'm still a good 5 years younger than lamont...
[08:53] <ivoks> Mithrandir: what's with mailman? :(
[08:53] <mdz> infinity: I am in London
[08:53] <mdz> since Sunday and through the release
[08:53] <infinity> mdz: How many more months of back and forth before you just sell the place in LA and move to London?
[08:53] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu is getting both install and alternate CDs made
[08:54] <Mithrandir> ivoks: ETOOLATETOFIX.
[08:54] <omeg> Well, guess I gotta go now
[08:54] <mdz> infinity: too many
[08:54] <janimo> omeg,splash looks ok
[08:54] <janimo> a bit like the breezy one but ok
[08:54] <ivoks> Mithrandir: i hope it will get in updates, tough
[08:54] <omeg> Will you look into usplash Edubuntu sometime, infinity?
[08:55] <omeg> janimo: I'm glad that there are no font issues, then.
[08:55] <omeg> Thanks for checking to make sure.
[08:55] <infinity> omeg: Yup, it'll fill the gaps when I'm waiting for longer-running processes to happen (like CD builds and such)
[08:55] <omeg> Awesome. I hope that it doesn't need reindexing. Maybe it was just some kind of build error when the colors messed up.
[08:57] <omeg> Well, see you around :)
[09:02] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, please
[09:03] <pitti> infinity: yes, these are meant to be the final ones :)
[09:03] <Kagou> hi
[09:04] <janimo> nomed, so did the vote end? can I upload the new usplash or wait some more?
[09:04] <janimo> dholbach: ^
[09:05] <dholbach> janimo: i think it'll end at 9:00 utc
[09:05] <nomed> janimo: no idea ..
[09:05] <janimo> ok
[09:05] <nomed> i guess you can
[09:05] <janimo> I'll wait two more hours
[09:05] <dholbach> janimo: heno will be up soonish and he'll know the results
[09:09] <pitti> infinity: wow, the langpacks built until just recently, so the current CD images don't even contain all the latest versions...
[09:11] <infinity> pitti: I can re-roll images after we've done NEWing the lot and an archive cycle has gone by.
[09:11] <infinity> pitti: Assuming you wanted to actually test images with the current langpacks. :)
[09:12] <infinity> There are other builds that were stuck in the i386 queue while langpacks were building anyway, so I wouldn't mind re-rolling in a bit.
[09:12] <pitti> infinity: I don't think it's necessary; I can't test *all* languages anyway :)
[09:12] <pitti> and most of them are up to date already
[09:12] <mdz> infinity: my failure seems to have been much earlier than the buildd's, and restarting debian/rules build lets it continue
[09:12] <mdz> this package sucks
[09:12] <infinity> You don't test all languages!? *shock and horror* :)
[09:12] <infinity> mdz: Yes, yes it does suck.
[09:13] <infinity> mdz: vernadsky and terranova both seem to be grinding away okay right now, so we'll see.
[09:13] <infinity> mdz: I'd still prefer to find out WHY it dies, but I just don't think we have the time to be chasing heisenbugs.
[09:13] <mdz> infinity: have you been able to get a look at this?
[09:13] <mdz> ERROR: Saved logfile: /build/buildd/openoffice.org-2.0.2/ooo-build/build/oob680-m5/instsetoo_native/util/OpenOffice//logging/en-US/log_OOB680__en-US.log
[09:16] <infinity> mdz: The builds have never died quite the same way on a manual build as they do on an automated build, so I'm not sure how useful that would be.
[09:16] <mdz> infinity: I mean the log from the automated build, of course
[09:16] <dholbach> to everybody who enjoys big scaled folders on the desktop: you'll have real scalable folders with this ubuntu-artwork upload - YAY!
[09:16] <infinity> mdz: I can do an automated build and hack up lp-buildd to not kill the chroot afterward.  But I'd rather do that AFTER the crisis is averted with manually-built packages.
[09:16] <mdz> the one which is redirecting its error output to that logfile
[09:17] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, see above. The automated build keeps nothing, so I'll need to hack that.
[09:18] <carlos> pitti: morning
[09:18] <pitti> hey carlos
[09:18] <carlos> pitti: dude, I just remember that I forgot to give you the updated gnome-panel .po files....
[09:18] <carlos> did you download it from Rosetta?
[09:18] <pitti> carlos: I noticed yesterday, too
[09:19] <pitti> carlos: no, too late unfortunately; we'll fix it via -updates
[09:19] <carlos> ok
[09:20] <carlos> I just approved the XFCE translation domains, so we should have all fixed now
[09:23] <pitti> yay
[09:24] <dholbach> hey mvo
[09:24] <mvo> hello dholbach
[09:31] <pitti> infinity: ah, the current desktop-i386 iso contains just very few langpacks, that's why it is so small
[09:32] <pitti> infinity: however, ubuntu-meta is correct wrt live-i386 contents. any idea?
[09:33] <pitti> infinity: ah, easy, ubuntu-live package is at 0.114 on the live-i386, so it's just too old
[09:42] <mvo> iwj: hello, did you see the latest comment for bug #26436
[09:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 26436 in firefox "gtkmozembed crashs with python" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26436
[09:42] <dholbach> infinity, mdz: is it ok to upload some small changes in example-content or are you preparing CD builds atm?
[09:44] <mdz> dholbach: go ahead
[09:45] <dholbach> mdz: ok, thanks
[09:45] <dholbach> heya seb128!
[09:45] <mdz> any sort of RCish builds are blocked on oo.o
[09:45] <seb128> hi dholbach
[09:45] <fabbione> what's wrong with oo.o?
[09:45] <mdz> fabbione: FTBFS
[09:45] <mdz> in weird and unreproducible ways
[09:46] <fabbione> mdz: what arch?
[09:46] <mdz> fabbione: i386
[09:46] <fabbione> ok
[09:46] <Kinnison> erk
[09:46] <mdz> seems to work on powerpc and sparc, oddly enough
[09:46] <Kinnison> Very odd
[09:46] <fabbione> work -> build
[09:46] <fabbione> from build to work there is another sea to cross
[09:47] <fabbione> mdz: i *might* have to do a silo/silo-installer upload. i am not sure yet.
[09:47] <fabbione> trying to reproduce a problem i had yesterday
[09:47] <Kinnison> amd64 seems to fail too
[09:47] <fabbione> Kinnison: amd64 is built from the i386 debs
[09:48] <fabbione> it's not native
[09:49] <infinity> Kinnison: amd64, ia64, and hppa are expected to fail. :)
[09:49] <mdz> Kinnison: amd64 fails because i386 failed
[09:49] <mdz> or that
[09:49] <mdz> oo.o-amd64 needs uploading once i386 is sorted
[09:49] <infinity> Yeah, I told doko I'd do that.
[09:49] <infinity> Unless he gets home before I'm done.
[09:50] <mdz> he's back around 1700 UTC today I think
[09:50] <Kinnison> Oh right, still not native
[09:50] <Kinnison> sucks
[09:55] <infinity> iwj: Alive and at work yet?
[09:55] <infinity> iwj: Your ttf-freefont patch doesn't apply: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/197438
[10:05] <mdz> mvo: did sun java get added to app-install-data?
[10:05] <mdz> ah, yes, good
[10:14] <mdz> seb128: do you know why my System->Lock Screen is missing now?
[10:15] <seb128> mdz: because it's a part of the session dialog
[10:15] <pitti> mdz: apparently that is a last-minute feature
[10:16] <pitti> and it sucks IMHO
[10:16] <dholbach> mdz: Mark wanted to have it removed.
[10:16] <seb128> pitti: not really last minute
[10:16] <mdz> dholbach: when did he ask for it?
[10:16] <Kinnison> eww, that's nasty
[10:16] <seb128> I think it was a part of what Mark wanted for the session dialog
[10:16] <infinity> It's "last minute" compared to the feature freeze everyone else had to adhere to. :P
[10:16] <dholbach> mdz: he reminded me of it (seems he mentioned it before, when I was not around) in the last icon call
[10:17] <infinity> But yeah, it was a couple/few weeks ago that it changed, I think.
[10:17] <mdz> it was 15 May, though I didn't recognize the impact of the changelog at the time
[10:17] <infinity> Week and a half, then.  I was close.
[10:19] <dholbach> What did we decide for the HUG DAY? Will we have it? Anything we want to focus on?
[10:22] <pitti> ogra: piung
[10:22] <pitti> ping, even
[10:23] <Kinnison> pitti: anything LPish you need from me today?
[10:23] <pitti> Kinnison: not right now; I guess I tortured the buildds enough for a while :)
[10:23] <Kinnison> :-)
[10:23] <Kinnison> apart from vernadsky being on manual, they're all idle :-)
[10:29] <infinity> (It's manual for a reason, please don't switch it..)
[10:30] <Kinnison> :-)
[10:32] <Kamion> Riddell: no it's not, it's getting them copied from previous directories. I thought I'd cleaned that up already, but I'm sorting it out now
[10:34] <Kamion> mdz: did you notice that the latest kernel FTBFS on i386?
[10:35] <fabbione> Kamion: we will need another upload anyway
[10:36] <carlos> pitti: hi, vim is not generating the .pot file. Did we talked about it already?
[10:36] <pitti> hm, can't remember
[10:36] <hunger> Kamion: And the -23- kernel got really loud during bootup, too. Produces much more output than the -22- did.
[10:37] <janimo> dholbach: HUG day tomorrow you mean?
[10:37] <Kamion> hunger: you probably forgot to boot with 'quiet'
[10:37] <Kamion> hunger: (or your bootloader did)
[10:37] <Kamion> fabbione: ...
[10:38] <dholbach> janimo: that was the plan
[10:38] <fabbione> Kamion: we need to fix the dri/drm bits. we got input from upstream only 3 hours ago
[10:38] <janimo> dholbach: for critical bugs in dapper or triaging for edgy?
[10:38] <fabbione> Kamion: i am preparing patches and stuff for Ben but i also need to do other stuff
[10:38] <dholbach> janimo: no edgy plans for now
[10:41] <infinity> Kamion: The i386 FTBFS is easy enough to sort.  I could do it now, but I was going to wait for BenC to show up and make him do it.
[10:41] <fabbione> infinity: what's the problem with i386?
[10:42] <infinity> Kamion: Until these OOo builds all finish, RC's a pipe dream anyway. :/
[10:42] <infinity> fabbione: ABI additions when RTC was added.  Simple to fix.
[10:42] <fabbione> yeah
[10:42] <fabbione> but additions are not fatal
[10:42] <fabbione> or are not supposed to be
[10:42] <fabbione> did we become more stricy?
[10:43] <fabbione> strict
[10:43] <infinity> They appear to be when the module we built in disappears.
[10:43] <infinity> -drivers/char/rtc rtc_control 0xc9b27289
[10:43] <infinity> -drivers/char/rtc rtc_register 0xfdab2b9c
[10:43] <infinity> -drivers/char/rtc rtc_unregister 0xeddfe49d
[10:44] <infinity> +vmlinux rtc_control 0xc9b27289
[10:44] <infinity> +vmlinux rtc_register 0xfdab2b9c
[10:44] <infinity> +vmlinux rtc_unregister 0xeddfe49d
[10:44] <fabbione> oh right
[10:44] <fabbione> because they disappear from the module
[10:44] <infinity> Right.
[10:44] <fabbione> but they maintain the same ash
[10:44] <fabbione> hash
[10:45] <fabbione> it's not a real ABI change
[10:45] <fabbione> a depmod fixes that
[10:45] <infinity> Yeah.
[10:45] <infinity> So someone should be able to mangle those ABI files by hand, and we're on our way.
[10:45] <infinity> (Which is what I was going to do)
[10:45] <infinity> (If someone said we needed the kernel RIGHT NOW)
[10:46] <fabbione> infinity: wait i am getting more stuff fixed atm
[10:46] <fabbione> i can fix those manually in my tree in the meanwhile
[10:46] <fabbione> did amd64 built properly?
[10:46] <infinity> Yes, it did.
[10:46] <fabbione> actually..
[10:47] <fabbione> who did upload 23.37 ???
[10:47] <fabbione> it's missing changelog entry ...
[10:47] <Kamion> infinity: yes, could you do it please?
[10:48] <Kamion> oh, not if fabbione wants other changes I guess
[10:48] <fabbione> Kamion: we need the other changes. really
[10:48] <Kamion> but I really really need to upload final d-i to-freaking-day!
[10:48] <infinity> fabbione: 23.37 and 23.38 have the same changelog entry.  I assume he changed the changelog but forgot to make the actual changes in 37..
[10:48] <Kamion> so any more kernel crap and I'll be very very unhappy
[10:48] <Kamion> (i.e. this time round it needs to build)
[10:48] <fabbione> infinity: ok thanks
[10:49] <jordi> mvo: ping
[10:49] <mvo> jordi: pong
[10:50] <ogra> pitti, pong
[10:50] <jordi> mvo: for a week or so, I've had this debian unstable box that takes a long, long time to get upgraded by apt
[10:50] <Kamion> hmm, these NTFS resizing bugs with gparted are kind of annoying, I wonder how hard a backport would be
[10:50] <pitti> ogra: I just changed the edubuntu seeds to fill the ppc/live with langpacks, as discussed yesterday
[10:50] <pitti> ogra: I also updated my langpacksize script to be useful for edubuntu, too :)
[10:50] <jordi> After the "Do you want to continue" prompt, I get the %% [Working]  prompt, which takes around 20 mins to reach 100%
[10:50] <pitti> ogra: shall I update ubuntu-meta now?
[10:51] <jordi> the sources list is a local http and a file:/ repo for unstable
[10:51] <pitti> ogra: s/now/whenever http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-dapper/live is updated/
[10:51] <jordi> After a long wait I managed to get to 96%
[10:51] <jordi> and I suspended it in case you want to try anything
[10:51] <ogra> pitti, go aqhead if you like :)
[10:51] <pitti> alright
[10:52] <pitti> carlos: so, vim needs to be fixed?
[10:52] <mvo> jordi: thanks, interessting. This is definitely strange. does it print how fast it is downloading (the speed)? 
[10:52] <infinity> Kamion: Hrm.  Looks like the LAMP install works fine now, despite no intervention on my part.... I wonder if the failures during the Flight-7 era were some transient bug...
[10:52] <jordi> no, it doesn't download anything
[10:52] <jordi> (in Catalan)
[10:52] <carlos> pitti: I think so, yes
[10:52] <jordi> 237 actualitzats, 2 nous a installar, 1 a eliminar i 0 no actualitzats.
[10:52] <jordi> Es necessita obtenir 0B/162MB d'arxius.
[10:53] <jordi> then it says
[10:53] <jordi> Desprs de desempaquetar s'usaran 21,0MB d'espai en disc addicional.
[10:53] <jordi> Voleu continuar [S/n] ?
[10:53] <jordi> 96% [Treballant] 
[10:53] <jordi> and that's the veeery long wait
[10:54] <infinity> Kamion: Ergh.  Is there a way I can get grub to not have "splash" on the kernel commandline for a server install, though?
[10:54] <jordi> mvo: want me to cancel so we can preserve this condition?
[10:55] <mvo> jordi: very strange, can you see with strace what it is doing at 96%?
[10:56] <jordi> I can start over
[10:56] <jordi> I fear it'll eventually start the upgrade
[10:56] <Mithrandir> jordi: did you get to test hot spanish keyboard love for me?
[10:56] <Kamion> infinity: not without hacking grub-installer, sorry
[10:57] <jordi> Mithrandir: you didn't seem y msgs?
[10:57] <jordi> That same day I wasn't able to
[10:57] <pitti> dholbach: shall I bump the test cd version on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current? also, should the matrix be flushed? or only flush once we have dedicated canditate CDs?
[10:57] <jordi> but this laptop I have here does work
[10:57] <infinity> Kamion: Crap.  Okay, then I guess -server installs are stuck with a vga16fb framebuffer by default.. :/
[10:57] <pitti> dholbach: (I think the latter would make more sense)
[10:57] <jordi> it's not a normal desktop keyboard, tho
[10:57] <jordi> mvo: ok
[10:57] <dholbach> pitti: yeah, just flush it
[10:57] <Mithrandir> jordi: yeah, I saw your stuff from Friday, but that was a day off for the distro team and I never got around to responding.
[10:58] <dholbach> infinity: are you going to do the openoffice.org-amd64 upload?
[10:58] <jordi> Do you want to continue [Y/n] ?
[10:58] <jordi> 17% [Working] 
[10:58] <infinity> dholbach: Only when the i386 one builds...
[10:58] <jordi> Mithrandir: seems to work here
[10:58] <Kamion> infinity: you could set debian-installer/framebuffer=false but it would slow down the installer a lot
[10:58] <Kamion> and de-support non-English installs
[10:58] <ogra> hrm, the CDs look odd
[10:59] <infinity> Kamion: That will will the "splash" in the target system as well?
[10:59] <fabbione> Kamion: i might be able to give you a kernel before Ben wakes up
[10:59] <ogra> (at least the logs)
[10:59] <dholbach> infinity: can you please add   dh_iconcache  to  debian/rules  if it's not there?
[10:59] <infinity> Kamion: Ahh, so it does...
[10:59] <jordi> and if that didn't work for all people, we'd really have more bug reports.
[10:59] <dholbach> infinity: I think doko added it to openoffice.org, but not to openoffice.org-amd64
[10:59] <jordi> has anyone else said "me too"?
[10:59] <jordi> select(11, [10] , [] , NULL, {0, 500000}) = 0 (Timeout)
[10:59] <jordi> gettimeofday({1148374725, 783387}, NULL) = 0
[10:59] <jordi> rt_sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK, [WINCH] , [] , 8) = 0
[10:59] <jordi> rt_sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK, [] , NULL, 8) = 0
[10:59] <jordi> write(1, "\r25% [Working] ", 14)         = 14
[10:59] <jordi> mvo: stuck there
[10:59] <fabbione> infinity: can you please do me a favour? look into the amd64/ppc build logs and check if the abi changes are the same as on i386
[11:00] <jordi> every now and then, the % updates
[11:00] <jordi> the date of the box is up to date
[11:01] <pitti> dholbach: ok, as you wish. flushed and bumped version
[11:01] <dholbach> pitti: super, thanks
[11:01] <mvo> jordi: there is probably a "worker" process (http maybe) that it is talking to? can you see it?
[11:02] <jordi> yup, file process
[11:02] <jordi> mvo: taking this to privmsg, there's more strace output when the % changes
[11:02] <mvo> jordi: ok, thanks
[11:02] <Mithrandir> Seveas: why did you reject 43428 without any further comment?
[11:03] <Mithrandir> oh, sorry
[11:03] <infinity> Kamion: Well, if the installer's using a framebuffer, then it should work on the installed system.. And vice-versa, if people disable it in the installer, they'll get what they want.  I suppose that will do for now.
[11:03] <Mithrandir> I should learn to read the full bug log.
[11:03] <Mithrandir> Seveas: sorry, ignore me. :-)
[11:12] <pitti> dholbach: I just finished that :)
[11:13] <dholbach> pitti: live cd install?
[11:13] <pitti> dholbach: no, alternate CD
[11:13] <dholbach> i'll do alternate custom partitioning
[11:14] <dholbach> (so mvo can play with this box again :-))
[11:14] <Kamion> dholbach: I sort of regret not taking the effort to go to gparted 0.2.x now
[11:14] <sladen> Kamion: could you add a second hook for d-i to do whatever it does to not pass 'splash' later, but without getting it not to use splash during the install
[11:14] <mvo> dholbach: is it up again?
[11:14] <Kamion> dholbach: I'm going to attempt a backport of some of the ntfs fixes, I think
[11:14] <ogra> mumble mumble, why are all Cds broken currently ?
[11:14] <Kamion> sladen: not now
[11:15] <dholbach> mvo: I said "/me starts powerpc install" :-p
[11:15] <dholbach> Kamion: I should have pushed that more and earlier :-/
[11:17] <dholbach> Kamion: there was one cvs commit about MB<->MiB confusion too - I'll try to find it
[11:17] <Kamion> yes that's the one I'm looking at
[11:17] <Kamion> that and the ntfsfix stuff
[11:17] <Keybuk> ugh, people aren't still trying to use the "MiB" term, are they?
[11:17] <Kamion> it's all tied in with the progress feedback improvements though
[11:18] <Kamion> Keybuk: frankly I don't care what term they use any more as long as they agree with the tools they're using, which gparted didn't
[11:18] <infinity> fabbione: Yeah, amd64 had an ABI override, but those 3 symbols jumped to vmlinuxfrom rtc...
[11:18] <infinity> fabbione: The RTC change wasn't made on PPC.
[11:18] <fabbione> infinity: yes thanks i got all of it
[11:18] <infinity> fabbione: So, it should be for all amd64 kernels, and all i386 except for -386
[11:18] <fabbione> abi files should be fixed now...
[11:19] <simira> sladen: I still don't get that cpu fan to work 
[11:19] <fabbione> uh?
[11:19] <infinity> fabbione: And you may as well remove the amd64 ABI override then. :)
[11:19] <fabbione> infinity: i already removed the overrides for all of them
[11:19] <infinity> fabbione: uh?
[11:19] <fabbione> infinity: so -386 was not to be touched?
[11:20] <infinity> fabbione: Yeah, -386 didn't get the RTC change, since -386 is the "safe kernel for ancient hardware"... And ancient (like, 15 years or more) hardware is the only place where rtc could break something.
[11:20] <fabbione> infinito: craptastic.. you could have told me 10 minutes ago
[11:20] <fabbione> infinity: ^^^
[11:20] <pitti> Kamion: hm, I just installed the current ppc/install and l-support-en was not installed (and with it, oo.o-help-en is missing)
[11:21] <infinity> fabbione: Sorry, I was in a full-screen VMware.
[11:21] <infinity> fabbione: You didn't go an upload with the -386 ABI changed, did you? :/
[11:21] <fabbione> infinity: no i am still waiting for one last fix
[11:21] <infinity> fabbione: Okay, then no harm done. :)
[11:21] <fabbione> and still quadruple checking the changes i am doing
[11:22] <fabbione> it has been too long since i did a kernel upload...
[11:22] <infinity> fabbione: When you hand-edited the ABI files, did you make sure to run them through sort? :)
[11:22] <fabbione> i am not exactly in the mood to fry it
[11:22] <fabbione> infinity: did that already
[11:22] <fabbione> and i used scripts.. no hands
[11:22] <infinity> Look ma, no hands!
[11:23] <dholbach> hrm, why doesn't gnome's bonsai have gparted
[11:24] <infinity> Riddell: ktorrent FTBFS from an empty .po file.
[11:25] <fabbione> infinity: do you think we can run a test build on all arches before upload?
[11:26] <fabbione> i can have the sources on people in about 10 minutes
[11:26] <infinity> fabbione: Of the kernel?  Sure.
[11:26] <fabbione> infinity: yeah 
[11:26] <infinity> fabbione: It'll double Kamion's wait, that's all. :P/
[11:26] <infinity> s/P//
[11:26] <Kamion> pitti: syslog etc.
[11:26] <fabbione> infinity: it has been too long since i did hack this stuff.. and i would feel better to know that it will go in one shot
[11:26] <pitti> Kamion: the installer log complains about l-support-en being broken because of wamerican, wbritish, etc. being virtual packages
[11:26] <infinity> fabbione: If you're 99% sure it's right, one build beats two...
[11:26] <ogra> pitti, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html
[11:27] <fabbione> infinity: i am 99.9% sure
[11:27] <infinity> fabbione: But yeah, I can spin up tests on all the buildds.
[11:27] <Kamion> pitti: see http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html
[11:27] <Kamion> what ogra said :)
[11:27] <ogra> :)
[11:27] <Kamion> we're oversized
[11:27] <fabbione> Kamion: what do you want me to do? upload or testbuild -> upload?
[11:27] <infinity> The changelog already has enough "oops, fucked up, upload again" in it.  One more won't kill anyone.
[11:27] <Kamion> fabbione: can you do a test build faster than the buildds will build it?
[11:28] <infinity> Kamion: The test builds would be on the buildds, so "no".
[11:28] <fabbione> Kamion: only on sparc..
[11:28] <infinity> sparc is meaningless, it always finishes first anyway. :)
[11:28] <infinity> i386 takes the longest.
[11:28] <Kamion> fabbione: go ahead and test it, but don't wait for ia64; it's the pathetically slow one
[11:28] <infinity> (Because of all the images)
[11:28] <Kamion> infinity: isn't ia64 slowest? it was last time
[11:28] <infinity> Oh, ia64 takes forever, cause it sucks.  Right.
[11:28] <Kamion> or last time I looked
[11:28] <fabbione> i only need i386/amd64/ppc/sparc
[11:29] <pitti> Kamion: hm, so http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20060523/ doesn't contain .OVERSIZED warnings any more for overflowed CDs?
[11:29] <ogra> pitti, only for live
[11:29] <infinity> You can test i386 and amd64 on the porter box that's faster than the buildds.
[11:29] <pitti> ogra: ah, ok
[11:29] <fabbione> infinity: ok
[11:29] <infinity> The one that replaced concordia, but I forgot its name.
[11:29] <fabbione> ronne
[11:29] <infinity> That one.
[11:30] <fabbione> actually i will also need faure for sparc
[11:30] <ogra> infinity, did omeg talk to you ? i'll need your help with the font coloring for the edubuntu splash before release
[11:30] <fabbione> my sparc was in re-install me hard mode
[11:32] <pitti> ogra: any chance to get to know by how much they have overflowed?
[11:32] <ogra> pitti, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/
[11:33] <ogra> pitti, search for "CD 2 will only"
[11:33] <infinity> I can do sparc on a buildd, if faure's chroots aren't set up for kernels.
[11:33] <infinity> I just don't want to do i386 on the buildds, cause I'm using them all for OOo BS. :/
[11:33] <infinity> And I know ronne is kernel-ready.
[11:33] <infinity> Or, should be.
[11:33] <infinity> Or beg HP for buildd donations, in the case of ia64 and hppa.
[11:33] <pitti> ogra: thanks
[11:33] <infinity> ogra: Yes, he talked to me.  I'll look at it shortly.
[11:33] <ajmitch> "more hamsters needed"
[11:33] <ogra> infinity, no hurry, just before release is fine ...
[11:34] <simira> ajmitch: you can have my gerbils
[11:34] <ajmitch> simira: ship them off to the data centre
[11:34] <simira> ajmitch: do you pay for shipping?
[11:34] <ajmitch> sadly not
[11:34] <pitti> ogra: holy crap, 26 MB?
[11:36] <dholbach> Kamion: http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/gparted.patch is the MiB upstream patch
[11:37] <ogra> pitti, dholbach uploaded a new example-content packge, look for the 26M of his private conference photos ;)
[11:37] <pitti> ogra: ah, e-c might indeed be the culprit, yes
[11:37] <dholbach> ogra: pffft
[11:37] <ogra> :)
[11:38] <dholbach> Kamion: oh, it seems there were other mib changes before :-/
[11:39] <dholbach> Kamion: http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/gparted2.patch too *urgh*
[11:39] <ogra> mvo, "the tanned face of MOTU" ?
[11:39] <Treenaks> why are .doc files thumbnailes, but .od* files not?
[11:39] <seb128> Treenaks: .doc are?
[11:39] <Treenaks> seb128: on my system, yes
[11:40] <seb128> Treenaks: like you have the content display like for pdf?
[11:40] <Treenaks> seb128: yes
[11:40] <seb128> Treenaks: what mimetype has that .doc?
[11:40] <Treenaks> seb128: application/msword
[11:40] <ogra> Treenaks, apt-get remove microsoft-office ?
[11:40] <Keybuk> woohoo!  I got my PowerBook to work! :)  http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/DSC00012.JPG
[11:40] <seb128> Treenaks: /desktop/gnome/thumbnailers/application@msword/command
[11:40] <seb128> Treenaks: what do you have for that gconf key?
[11:41] <ogra> Keybuk, "FORBIDDEN !!"
[11:41] <Keybuk> ogra: too quick :)
[11:41] <Treenaks> seb128: gsf-office-thumbnailer -i %i -o %o -s %s
[11:41] <ogra> ehee
[11:41] <ogra> shiny
[11:41] <Nematode85> will dapper (final) include X11R7.1?
[11:41] <seb128> Treenaks: it comes from gsf-office-thumbnailer then
[11:41] <seb128> Nematode85: no
[11:41] <ogra> Keybuk, but i think iBooks look rather compact comared to this :)
[11:41] <Treenaks> seb128: ok.. but it looks weird, non-free formats are thumbnailed while free formats aren't (in example-content)
[11:41] <seb128> Treenaks: dpkg -S gsf-office-thumbnailer ?
[11:42] <Keybuk> ogra: the top of the CD drive was touching the CDs and preventing them from spinning
[11:42] <Treenaks> seb128: libgsf-1: /usr/bin/gsf-office-thumbnailer
[11:42] <Keybuk> so I bent it back into shape
[11:42] <seb128> Treenaks: is that package a part of the standard install?
[11:42] <ogra> Keybuk, broken by you or by apple ?
[11:42] <Keybuk> ogra: assumedly whoever owned it before me
[11:43] <Kamion> dholbach: ahead of you already on gparted2.patch :)
[11:43] <ogra> ah, its a used
[11:43] <Keybuk> it was an ebay job, so I can do powerpc testing
[11:43] <ogra> one
[11:43] <Nematode85> seb128: but will it at least be available a little later, as an update?
[11:43] <Kamion> stripping it down a lot though
[11:43] <seb128> Nematode85: no idea
[11:43] <Keybuk> ok, let's see if it'll work when I put it back together
[11:43] <dholbach> Kamion: historically gparted2.patch happened before gparted.patch - sorry for that
[11:43] <Nematode85> seb128: btw, will we get any further flight before dapper final?
[11:43] <seb128> Treenaks: that doesn't seem to be a part of the default installation
[11:44] <Treenaks> seb128: it's in dapper/main.. libgoffice-1 depends on it.. an abiword-plugins too
[11:44] <Kamion> dholbach: yep
[11:44] <Treenaks> seb128: (which is probably how it got installed: abiword :))
[11:44] <Kamion> dholbach: I'm working from CVS right now
[11:44] <seb128> Treenaks: right, but now is not the moment to work on stuff not-installed by default
[11:44] <seb128> Nematode85: no
[11:44] <dholbach> Kamion: ok
[11:44] <Treenaks> seb128: true
[11:46] <seb128> Treenaks: https://launchpad.net/bugs/25827 on the topic
[11:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 25827 in nautilus "Thumbnails for Openoffice.org documents" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
[11:46] <pitti> Kamion: I'll reduce langpacks on the alternate CDs to fix the overflow
[11:47] <Kamion> ok
[11:47] <pitti> it would mean that we have almost no langpacks on the ppc CDs any more, but on the others there should still be some left
[11:48] <infinity> Poor PowerPC...
[11:59] <ogra> Kamion, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/edubuntu-daily-20060523.log doesnt indicate any oversizedness for me ... but amd64 and ppc have a bunch of uninstallables in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html
[12:01] <ogra> hmm, mighht be mvo's gimp upload causing this ...
[12:02] <pitti> carlos: I just fixed vim
[12:03] <ogra> ahhh, it was glib whichh wasnt built when the CD builds started :)
[12:03] <janimo> mdz: UVF exception for xfdesktop svn? I had a 4 fixes locally including a crasher locally, and were taken by upstream. They also have 3 more bugfixes since our last upload.
[12:05] <janimo> mdz, this goes in hand with a thunar workaround which I need to revert as is properly fixed in xfdesktop now. I can either apply a reverse patch, or sync thunar which is exact same codewise, but there is a new translation upstream as well.
[12:10] <mdz> janimo: your call
[12:10] <janimo> ok
[12:10] <infinity> pitti: If you're on the po/pot fixing warpath, want to fix ktorrent for Riddell, since he doesn't seem to be around?
[12:10] <mdz> infinity: how is oo.o looking?
[12:11] <infinity> mdz: "not failed yet"
[12:11] <pitti> infinity: package needs to build a pot? or what is wrong?
[12:11] <infinity> mdz: I'm hoping that means "good".
[12:11] <infinity> pitti: FTBFS due to empty .po
[12:11] <pitti> infinity: ah, I see; yes, I'll look into it
[12:12] <infinity> pitti: Much love to you.
[12:12] <fabbione> Kamion: kernels are building.. it shouldn't take too long from now
[12:12] <mdz> infinity: has iwj acked that other ftbfs?
[12:13] <infinity> mdz: No, I'll poke it in a sec.
[12:13] <infinity> mdz: Just looks like a bad patch, but since I don't know the context of the patch, I preferred to defer to him before fixing it myself, that's all.
[12:13] <ogra> is anybody needing lithium currently or can i trigger an edubuntu install build ?
[12:13] <mdz> iwj: ping
[12:13] <infinity> ogra: Go nuts.
[12:14] <infinity> ogra: I'm idle.
[12:14] <ogra> yay :)
[12:15] <carlos> pitti: ok
[12:15] <carlos> pitti: how is that your buildd script didn't detect it?
[12:15] <pitti> carlos: probably because I ignore vim translations, since vim doesn't use gettet
[12:15] <pitti> s/t$/xt/
[12:15] <carlos> pitti: are you completely sure?
[12:16] <carlos> pitti: the .po file has references to .c code
[12:21] <pitti> [12:21] <pitti> wasabi: vim_6.4-006+2ubuntu5: no mo and pot files, but po files
[12:21] <pitti> wasabi: sorry, that was a "W:' in copy&paste
[12:21] <mdz> Riddell: any word from jjesse about the chapter?
[12:21] <seb128> pitti, carlos: is https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/46051 fixed by your changes from yesterday?
[12:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46051 in language-pack-gnome-es-base "Broken gnome-panel translations" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:21] <pitti> carlos: well, it doesn't use translations from /usr/share/locale, but it's own homebrew system
[12:21] <carlos> pitti: could it be a bug in the package?
[12:21] <pitti> seb128: will check in a minute
[12:21] <carlos> pitti: oh, that sucks...
[12:21] <pitti> carlos: it's filed as a bug, but nothing for dapper ;)
[12:21] <carlos> seb128: it should, yes
[12:21] <carlos> seb128: well, but it was not included in latest language packs
[12:21] <seb128> ok, let's wait for next update then
[12:21] <seb128> carlos: alright
[12:21] <carlos> pitti: what's filed as a bug?
[12:21] <pitti> carlos: bug 30078
[12:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30078 in Baltix "vim package has all translations (look at /usr/share/vim/vim63/lang/) instead of using langpacks" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30078
[12:21] <carlos> pitti: so they use .mo files
[12:21] <carlos> pitti: should I export them as part of language packs?
[12:21] <mdz> infinity: still very confused about this oo.o failure; the file referenced in the failing command doesn't even exist after a successful build
[12:21] <mdz> ERROR description: Couldn't open registry file:///home/mdz/src/openoffice.org-2.0.2/ooo-build/build/oob680-m5/instsetoo_native/util/OpenOffice/services.rdb/en-US_inprogress_1/regcomp.rdb for reading
[12:21] <mdz> .../OpenOffice doesn't even exist
[12:22] <mdz> and there is no regcomp.rdb or services.rdb anywhere in the tree
[12:22] <Riddell> mdz: got an e-mail from him "I know I'm working on getting it as quickly as possible."
[12:22] <iwj> mdz: Hi.
[12:22] <infinity> mdz: Are you hoping beyond hope that I have insight, or using me for wall debugging? :)
[12:22] <mdz> infinity: I'm "collaborating"
[12:23] <infinity> mdz: Cause the OOo build system is just as confusing to me as it is to you (and any rational human) :/
[12:23] <iwj> What FTBFS ?
[12:23] <infinity> iwj: ttf-freefont
[12:23] <ajmitch> infinity: got any universe FTBFS info for us?
[12:23] <iwj> ?
[12:23] <infinity> iwj: I pinged you about it up there somewhere ^^^
[12:23] <infinity> iwj: Looks like it's failing to apply a bad patch.
[12:23] <mdz> oh, I see; that bit is run in the binary target, not build
[12:24] <iwj> infinity: Oh, yes, so you did.
[12:24] <infinity> ajmitch: I'll dump a big mbox somewhere in a sec... Hold on, while I get my headless chickens in order.
[12:24] <iwj> infinity: Oh, FFS, cdbs.
[12:25] <ajmitch> infinity: no problem, thanks for that
[12:25] <iwj> I didn't edit any patch, I just edited the damn thing and now some _other_ patch doesn't apply.
[12:25] <iwj> I'll sort it out.
[12:25] <infinity> iwj: Thanks.
[12:25] <Kamion> dholbach: is your gparted.patch strictly necessary? it seems to be primarily a UI change
[12:26] <iwj> dbs should be an expletive.
[12:26] <pitti> seb128: g-panel is fine now
[12:26] <dholbach> Kamion: I hope it's not, the ChangeLog referred to a mb<->mib change
[12:26] <pitti> seb128: i386 pot file is current and has the 'Book excerpt' stuff, too
[12:27] <seb128> pitti: what I thought, but I had some language pack update this morning and they are still bugged
[12:27] <pitti> mdz: ^ FYI
[12:27] <Riddell> Kamion: could you do a kubuntu live fs build?
[12:27] <pitti> seb128: actual translations are missing, that's known
[12:27] <seb128> ok
[12:27] <mdz> pitti: yay
[12:28] <Kamion> Riddell: running
[12:28] <iwj> mvo: 26436> Seveas already pointed it out to me earlier, thanks.
[12:29] <pitti> infinity: ktorrent fixed, tested, uploaded
[12:30] <infinity> mdz: Permissing to upload a MySQL with an init script verbosity fix (redirects more junk to syslog, instead of bouncing delayed background ops to the console)?  The current behaviour appears to royally piss off debconf on the install CD when the timing of certain postinsts is just wrong.
[12:30] <infinity> s/Permissing/Permission/
[12:30] <mdz> infinity: diff?
[12:30] <infinity> mdz: Let me roll it into a package and diff it.  'sec. :)
[12:31] <infinity> (was testing on my local install)
[12:32] <Seveas> iwj, I also tried working on a real fix for it, but unfortunately my knowledge of the firefox build system is not enough
[12:34] <mdz> pitti: the CDs don't look oversized to me; is DRR out of date?
[12:36] <ogra> mdz, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html clearly something is borken 
[12:37] <mdz> indeed
[12:37] <Kamion> mdz: you don't always get .OVERSIZED warning files unfortunately, depending on exactly what fails
[12:37] <infinity> mdz: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/mysql-dfsg-5.0.debdiff
[12:37] <mdz> Kamion: I'm also looking at the file sizes
[12:37] <mdz> Kamion: do you know what's causing the issues in report.html?
[12:37] <pitti> mdz: I checked the logs, and a test install showed that some packages are  missing
[12:37] <Kamion> mdz: remember that debian-cd has an inbuilt limit
[12:38] <infinity> mdz: And if that's cool, I'd also like to merge with Debian SVN, where there's one more init script fix (free space check breaks in certain locales, fixed by specifying BLOCKSIZE), and some debconf translations.  Nothing else.
[12:38] <Kamion> mdz: it overflows onto a second CD internally
[12:38] <Kamion> mdz: one day I'll stop it doing that
[12:38] <Kamion> mdz: grep for 'CD 2' in the build logs
[12:38] <mdz> infinity: how much output can that script generate?
[12:38] <iwj> seveas: Thanks, but yes, it's all a bit nightmarish.  I haven't decided for sure and will look at the build system but I suspect I wouldn't want to make the proper -rpath fix now.  It might be that gtkmozembed apps will have to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH :-/.  Shame we didn't discover this a week or two ago.
[12:38] <mdz> oh
[12:39] <Kamion> mdz: provisionally, I'd like to apply something like http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/gparted-upstream-resize-fixes.patch to gparted; the MB->MiB stuff and the improved NTFS tool handling seems rather important unfortunately
[12:39] <infinity> mdz: Worst case?  Could be one line per DB table on a freshly-updated system.  Usually, it only produces a few lines.
[12:39] <infinity> mdz: Concerned that I should buffer it and spit it back out to avoid overflowing?
[12:39] <Seveas> iwj, how horrific is setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH in the (py)gtkmozembed initialization functions so you don't need to patch all (py)gtkmozembed applications?
[12:39] <Kamion> I haven't tested that patch yet; it's my attempt at a reasonably minimal backport without the huge piles of rearrangements that have happened upstream
[12:40] <infinity> mdz: I was going to slam it in a logfile, but the init scripts already output to syslog in other areas, so this was the path of least confusion.
[12:41] <mdz> infinity: maybe better to pipe it into logger rather than use backticks?
[12:41] <infinity> If logger reads from stdin...
[12:42] <mdz> infinity: it does, and in fact it's used that way elsewhere in the init script
[12:42] <infinity> Ahh, didn't notice that. :)
[12:42] <infinity> Right pipe it is.
[12:43] <Kamion> the changelog summary for gparted is basically:
[12:43] <Kamion>     - Run a simulation before performing an NTFS resize.
[12:43] <Kamion>     - Pass an exact byte count to ntfsresize, rather than a decimal megabyte
[12:43] <Kamion>       count (which does the wrong thing).
[12:43] <Kamion>     - Return failure from resize if suboperations fail.
[12:43] <infinity> mdz: Silly me.
[12:43] <mdz> infinity: does it actually break the installation of the package as it is now?
[12:43] <infinity> mdz: It broke installation of my LAMP setup on some tries, but not others.
[12:44] <infinity> mdz: Seems to really irritate debconf in other packages, when the output comes at just the wrong time.
[12:44] <mdz> Kamion: gar
[12:44] <mdz> infinity: ok, go ahead with it then
[12:45] <infinity> Ahh, it's much happier with the pipe.
[12:45] <iwj> Seveas: Fairly but I'll consider it :-).
[12:45] <infinity> mdz: Okay to include the debconf translations and BLOCKSIZE fix while I'm uploading anyway?
[12:45] <Seveas> iwj, ok, fun thing for me to work on
[12:45] <mdz> infinity: the what?
[12:46] <infinity> 04:38 < infinity> mdz: And if that's cool, I'd also like to merge with Debian SVN, where there's
[12:46] <infinity>                   one more init script fix (free space check breaks in certain locales, fixed by
[12:46] <infinity>                   specifying BLOCKSIZE), and some debconf translations.  Nothing else.
[12:46] <Kamion> mdz: I can't exactly claim to be happy about it.
[12:46] <Kamion> Riddell: you what?
[12:46] <Kamion> Riddell: weren't you waiting for the filesystem build?
[12:46] <iwj> Seveas: Cool.  Don't be too long though.  I think I've pinned down this crasher I've been hunting and now there's just a few things left on my firefox todo list.
[12:46] <ogra> heh
[12:46] <Riddell> Kamion: looks like it's done no?
[12:46] <Kamion> Riddell: not from here
[12:47] <sladen> mdz: what was wrong with the 0.40ubuntu31 patch to add a message about resume?
[12:47] <mdz> Kamion: what's "the wrong thing" in this case?
[12:47] <Kamion> Riddell: only ia64 is done, and that failed
[12:47] <ogra> Riddell, you need more sleep, keep the sleepless nights for end of the week :)
[12:47] <iwj> Seveas: Note that this LD_LIBRARY_PATH setting should be in the gtkmozembed init function (in firefox) and not in the py... one, since the latter would only fix Python apps.
[12:47] <iwj> If you don't want to tackle this do say and I'll put it on the end of my list.
[12:47] <mdz> sladen: the script doesn't have any knowledge about whether there is actually a resume pending, and initramfs doesn't have the tools to check
[12:47] <Riddell> Kamion: right I see, I'll be patient
[12:48] <Seveas> iwj, I'd figured that
[12:49] <infinity> mdz: ^^^
[12:49] <Seveas> iwj, and I'm already tackling it
[12:49] <Kamion> mdz: ntfsresize expects binary megabyte, gparted was passing decimal megabyte ... but then gparted would try to actually resize the physical partition and the filesystem would end up not matching the size of the partition because the units were different
[12:50] <Kinnison> Kamion: Ye gods that's nasty
[12:50] <mdz> infinity: sounds reasonable, but I still want to see the diff first
[12:50] <infinity> mdz: Kay.  'Sec.
[12:51] <mdz> Kamion: partitions can't be on decimal megabyte boundaries anyway, can they?  they have to be on a cylinder boundary
[12:51] <sladen> mdz: would be happy if I add it back in along with a check for the signature "SWAPSPACE2S1SUSPEND" at offset 4076 of the device we are about to echo into /sys...
[12:51] <Kamion> mdz: yes, it rounded
[12:51] <mdz> Kamion: so would it round and get it wrong only some of the time?
[12:52] <Kamion> mdz: the archaeology is a bit hard, but I believe so
[12:52] <mdz> sladen: after the release, yes
[12:52] <pitti> mdz: current tetex-base has broken hyphenation (see bug 36145 a dn duplicates); I verified that debian's -16 fixes this
[12:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36145 in tetex-bin "hyphenation does not work after upgrade from breezy to dapper" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36145
[12:52] <infinity> Oh crap, that never got merged?
[12:53] <pitti> mdz: http://changelogs.debian.net/tetex-base has a reasonable changelog
[12:53] <infinity> That one crossed my radar for all of 20 seconds several weeks back.
[12:53] <pitti> infinity: it occured to me just now, since an user mailed me for help
[12:53] <Kamion> Riddell: sorry, you should probably look at /current/ rather than /latest/
[12:53] <Kamion> Riddell: /latest/ lists the builds in progress; /current/ lists the last successful build
[12:53] <Kamion> s
[12:53] <pitti> mdz: can we sync -16? (we shouldn't take -17, it removes some documentation)
[12:53] <sladen> mdz: if I come up with a patch that is a one-line delta from yours and which works, would you be happy allowing that?
[12:53] <mdz> pitti: except that half the archive build-depends on it
[12:53] <mdz> pitti: let's defer that one to dapper-updates
[12:54] <iwj> Seveas: Excellent, thanks very much.
[12:54] <pitti> mdz: ok
[12:54] <mdz> sladen: it's a cosmetic problem (one which no one except me seemed to care about for months) and involves touching a highly criical package
[12:54] <mdz> critical, even
[12:54] <iwj> Seveas: when you're ready, it's probably easiest if you mail me (iwj@ubuntu.com) your diff.
[12:55] <mdz> sladen: it's a candidate for dapper-updates
[12:55] <Seveas> will do
[12:55] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[12:57] <sladen> mdz: it's only recome relevant in the fortnight, because there is no longer a console change as soon as it starts.  Formerly, the usplash disappeared immediately and was replaced with the kernel text-based progress-bar.  10 Minutes ago was the first hibernate test I did since that change and it caused me to file a bug immediately;  and itched me enough to fetch the source (which showed me your change log, reverted yesterday)
[12:58] <mjg59> sladen: Massively longer than a fortnight
[12:59] <sladen> mjg59: which kernel?  That's the first hibernate I've done where it hasn't switched to text-mode
[01:00] <mjg59> sladen: http://kernel.org/git/?p=linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-dapper.git;a=commit;h=73879f0a8da7ec3efd0715f6df3dd7a12a53addc
[01:03] <sladen> mjg59: -pm_restore_console();  ta
[01:04] <Kamion> mdz: I'll see if I can do some vmware snapshot magic to test out NTFS resizing before-and-after that change on the exact same filesystem
[01:04] <Kamion> (which I deliberately unmounted uncleanly for good measure)
[01:05] <infinity> mdz: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/mysql-dfsg-5.0.debdiff  <--- New debdiff, piping to logger instead, and with added faff.
[01:06] <infinity> mdz: And the BLOCKSIZE thing was in the preinst, not the init script, my bad.  So it's even nastier than I originally thought.
[01:07] <Riddell> we're still OK to upload fixes to universe yes?
[01:07] <dholbach> Riddell: yes, the motu crew is still working
[01:08] <infinity> Riddell: Yes, if MOTU is cool with it.
[01:08] <fabbione> dholbach: can i push a patch to the MOTU guys?
[01:08] <infinity> Riddell: I wouldn't just go uploading random packages without poking -motu. :)
[01:08] <Mithrandir> sivang: my power5 doesn't like me.
[01:08] <dholbach> fabbione: sure
[01:09] <fabbione> shawarma: you have it in your inbox..
[01:09] <fabbione> dholbach: ^^
[01:09] <dholbach> fabbione: hm?
[01:09] <fabbione> i just fw it to you
[01:09] <fabbione> the patch
[01:09] <dholbach> fabbione: why do you send it to me? and not to them?
[01:10] <fabbione> because i don't know their email address??
[01:10] <dholbach>  ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com ? :-)
[01:10] <fabbione> and you are still my favourite motu's face ;)
[01:13] <pitti> mdz: permission to upload http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14547 ?
[01:14] <pitti> mdz: this patches a patch, so it's a bit ugly to read, sorry
[01:15] <Kamion> infinity: any idea what's going on with the Kubuntu livefs build on terranova? seems to have hung
[01:15] <infinity> Kamion: I'll go look.
[01:15] <Kamion> ta
[01:16] <Mithrandir> mdz: there's a new nvidia driver out, which in addition to adding support for some minor gfx cards fixes a problem where using two LCDs on DVI hardlocks the system when X starts.  At least their changelog seems to hint in that direction; I'll test it later today.
[01:16] <Mithrandir> mdz: so, any chance of a UVF exception?
[01:16] <infinity> Kamion: mksquashfs claims to still be running..
[01:17] <infinity> Kamion: And indeed, it is.  I just saw more output (thanks, Mithrandir!) in the log.
[01:18] <infinity> mdz: If that diff is okay, I'd like to upload it before I run off to buy some dinner before the stores all close...
[01:21] <Kamion> infinity: ok, thanks, I guess it was just busy
[01:23] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/liveLogs/dapper/ubuntu/latest/livecd-20060523-i386.out <-- very broken though
[01:23] <Kamion> why doesn't it like language-pack-fi?
[01:23] <Kamion> ah, that's this morning's log ...
[01:24] <Mithrandir> hmm, should we possibly turn off automatic livefs and cd builds?
[01:24] <infinity> Probably.
[01:24] <Kamion> not yet, but soon, I think
[01:34] <fabbione> Kamion: we are almost there with the kernel.. waiting x86* to finish
[01:36] <ogra> fabbione, are there any known probs with mac mini G5 machines ? i have a report about a failed edubuntu install
[01:36] <fabbione> ogra: give me one and i will test it :)
[01:37] <fabbione> ogra: also. please ask these people to file bugs on lp
[01:37] <fabbione> with all the proper info
[01:37] <fabbione> it's not the first of the last time that a bug in foo is assigned to kernel or X
[01:37] <fabbione> because people just do NOT know
 basically, the last error is ERROR: The file 'dev/pmu' doesn't exist. 
     [fail] 
[01:38] <ogra> looks very much like kernel
[01:38] <ogra> it doesnt even boot
[01:38] <fabbione> looks very much like something that is not kernel related... 
[01:38] <fabbione> if it boots and can install and get tehre... 
[01:38] <ogra> i sent him to -kernel
[01:38] <ogra> ah, k
[01:38] <fabbione> dev/pmu is create by udev
[01:38] <fabbione> or should be
[01:38] <ogra> yep
[01:38] <ogra> indeeed
[01:38] <pitti> oh, crap; ppc/ubiquity install failed to create file system on 'erase entire disk'
[01:39] <ssam> ogra, mac minis are g4 or intel. typo?
[01:39] <ogra> ssam, nope
[01:39] <Mithrandir> pitti: did you have LVM on that machine already?
[01:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: no, never
[01:39] <ogra> there is one g5 series
[01:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: there was previously a broken apple bootstrap partition, that's why I erased the entire disk
[01:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: (or, rather, asked it to do that)
[01:40] <Kamion> fabbione: that's just the test run, right?
[01:40] <fabbione> Kamion: yes
[01:40] <Kamion> ok
[01:40] <fabbione> but as it is now we could just upload
[01:41] <Kamion> pitti: bug#?
[01:41] <pitti> I didn't install with verbose logging, will do it again now
[01:41] <fabbione> i only want to make sure this will hit archive 100%
[01:41] <pitti> Kamion: it just happened to me now, I'll look if it's already reported
[01:41] <Kamion> pitti: /var/log/partman might be enough
[01:41] <fabbione> well.. modulo ia64/hppa that i am not testing
[01:41] <Kamion> pitti: I'd rather have a new bug anyway, please
[01:41] <ssam> ogra, there was a imac g5, but i'm pretty sure not a mini
[01:42] <ogra> ssam, ah, sorry, it was an imac ... i muddled that
[01:42] <ssam> ogra, ok :-)
[01:44] <carlos> pitti: hi, around?
[01:44] <pitti> hi carlos
[01:45] <carlos> pitti: the tuxpaint-stamps .pot file is completely broken
[01:45] <carlos> it has a bunch of duplicates
[01:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: sounds like a dapper-updates candidate
[01:47] <mdz> infinity: I was at lunch
[01:48] <mdz> pitti: nagios fine
[01:48] <mdz> infinity: mysql-dfsg-5.0.debdiff OK
[01:50] <mdz> Kamion: I don't know what to say about this gparted patch
[01:50] <pitti> Kamion: filed 46135
[01:51] <pitti> Kamion: shall I leave the system alone for now, in case you want to know anything else?
[01:52] <Toadstool> hi everybody! what do you think about bug 45639? (mvo ? :))
[01:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45639 in libgksuui1.0 "When prompted to type in root password, right clicking causes carrot to permanently disappear" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45639
[01:53] <pitti> Kamion: hm, might be PEBCAK in the end, see my last comment
[01:54] <fabbione> Toadstool: Major???
[01:55] <Toadstool> fabbione: I didn't change the status, Sebastian Heinlein did
[01:55] <fabbione> that's at the best Normal
[01:55] <ogra> carrot ? 
[01:55] <ajmitch> fabbione: more bug inflation, prices are rising
[01:55] <fabbione> ajmitch: yeah
[01:56] <Toadstool> :)
[01:56] <ogra> :P
[01:56] <ogra> :)
[01:56] <simira> Mithrandir: what garden?
[01:56] <Mithrandir> simira: the beach in our backyard.
[01:57] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: usplash vanished on PowerPC LiveCD
[01:57] <infinity> mvo: Both carrots and lunch were brought up, actually.  It's my cure to cook what I just bought.
[01:57] <infinity> mdz: Thanks, uploaded.
[01:57] <Keybuk> pretty much, fwict, before it started booting the main system
[01:57] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: vanished as in?
[01:57] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: did "Configuring X", screen went black with flashing cursor
[01:57] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: X broke your ppc, then.
[01:57] <Keybuk> stayed like that for a while, then "Preparing restricted drivers..." came up on console
[01:57] <sladen> Keybuk: ogra was saying something like that yesterday;  I guess that explains why omeg was getting so perplexed
[01:58] <Mithrandir> Scott, meet Fabio, Fabio, meet Scott
[01:58] <Mithrandir> :-)
[01:58] <Keybuk> interestingly, X doesn't seem to want to use all of the display
[01:58] <Keybuk> it's got a black bar down the *right* hand side
[01:58] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: seriously though, I just call dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[01:59] <mdz> Kamion: what's upstream's opinion of pushing it in at the last minute?
[01:59] <Kamion> mdz: I haven't talked with upstream
[02:00] <Kamion> was mostly prompted by various rather panicky-sounding bugs I came across recently
[02:01] <Kamion> though not with sufficient actual detail to figure out what was going on, so I started investigating myself and got worried by the obvious brokenness of the current code
[02:01] <Kamion> mdz: there's one more conservative option available I think, which is to just take the portion of the patch that does a simulation run of ntfsresize before doing resizing proper
[02:02] <Kamion> that way we at least apply some extra insurance to resizing
[02:03] <Keybuk> fabbione: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/DSC00013.JPG
[02:03] <Keybuk> (note where the screen starts and ends, horizontally)
[02:03] <ogra> take a saw
[02:03] <fabbione> Keybuk: yes i can see.. is the config correct?
[02:03] <fabbione> Keybuk: compared to previous run?
[02:03] <fabbione> oh hold on
[02:04] <Keybuk> fabbione: this is the first run I've done
[02:04] <fabbione> what chipset is that?
[02:04] <Keybuk> fabbione: "PowerBook G4"
[02:04] <fabbione> yes i can read that.. what ATI chipset is that one?
[02:04] <fabbione> can you give me an lspci -n ?
[02:04] <Keybuk> not sure, trying to find the | key :p[
[02:04] <Keybuk> "ATI Rage Mobility M3 AGP 2x (rev 02)"
[02:05] <fabbione> can you give me an lspci -n ? <-----
[02:05] <Keybuk> 1002:4c46 (rev 02)
[02:05] <fabbione> please??
[02:05] <fabbione> thanks
[02:05] <mdz> Kamion: it's not as bad as its hugeness made me guess
[02:05] <Keybuk> xdpyinfo says it thinks the display is 1024x768
[02:05] <mdz> Kamion: but it's not practical to judge whether it's correct; there could be further changes which are missing
[02:05] <seb128> mdz: could we get a milestone for dapper-update maybe? To mark bugs that would be nice to fix to -update later
[02:05] <mdz> seb128: I've been adding to DapperReleaseRadar
[02:05] <Kamion> mdz: I agree, I can't say I'm comfortable with it
[02:06] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/gparted-upstream-ntfsresize.patch is just the ntfsresize handling changes
[02:06] <seb128> mdz: ah, right ... still would be handy to have a launchpad milestone ;)
[02:06] <Kamion> er
[02:06] <Keybuk> fabbione: xresprobe ati -- blanks the screen, and then just says "id:\nres:\nfreq:\ndisplaytype: lcd/lvds"
[02:06] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/gparted-upstream-ntfsresize-fixes.patch
[02:06] <fabbione> Keybuk: can you please try to disable UseFbDev in xorg.coinf?
[02:06] <mdz> seb128: done
[02:07] <seb128> mdz: thank you
[02:07] <fabbione> Keybuk: you need to exit from X to run xresprobe
[02:07] <Keybuk> fabbione: I did that, obviously
[02:07] <Keybuk> Xorg.log during xresprobe says "Video BOIS not detected in PCI space!"
[02:07] <fabbione> exit as in kill...
[02:07] <fabbione> that's ok
[02:07] <fabbione> can you please change that config option?
[02:08] <fabbione> from true to false
[02:08] <Keybuk> right
[02:08] <Keybuk> and just start gdm again?
[02:08] <fabbione> well whatever makes that black border
[02:09] <mdz> Kamion: I'm fine with that patch at least
[02:09] <Keybuk> fabbione: no difference
[02:09] <fabbione> Keybuk: can you please slam config and logs somewhere?
[02:09] <fabbione> Keybuk: also.. if you have the specs for that machine to see what res it expects
[02:10] <Keybuk> which config and logs would you like?
[02:10] <fabbione> xorg.conf and Xorg.0.log ?
[02:10] <Keybuk> ok, will make a fresh live session
[02:10] <Keybuk> I imagine the res it expects is the same as any other PowerBook
[02:11] <fabbione> Keybuk: well we usually detect it with xresprobe
[02:12] <fabbione> that's why.. it might have wrote down the wrong config
[02:12] <fabbione> Keybuk: please be as fast as you can.. i have upstream already waiting for the logs
[02:12] <Keybuk> interweb says res should be 1152x768
[02:15] <fabbione> Keybuk: and what's in the config?
[02:15] <Kamion> pitti: was "Creation of file system failed" (#46135) the exact error message?
[02:15] <Keybuk> fabbione: 1024x768
[02:16] <pitti> Kamion: it was in German, but I think so
[02:16] <pitti> Kamion: btw, after unmounting /dev/hda6, it seems to work now (still in progress)
[02:16] <fabbione> Keybuk: well that explains.. can you try to just fix the config?
[02:16] <pitti> Kamion: so that should be converted to a minor bug saying that mounted file systems shuold be unmounted before repartitioning
[02:16] <Keybuk> fabbione: how does it explain it/
[02:16] <pitti> Kamion: I'll update the bug when the current installation finished
[02:16] <Kamion> pitti: what was the German message?
[02:17] <fabbione> Keybuk: that if the config is wrong you get the wrong resolution. AFAIK PB doesn't scale
[02:17] <Kamion> I'm trying to track down exactly where it came from
[02:17] <fabbione> scale to fit i mean
[02:17] <Keybuk> fabbione: but the config shouldn't be wrong
[02:17] <Keybuk> it was autogenerated
[02:17] <fabbione> Keybuk: can we please go one step at a time?
[02:17] <fabbione> Keybuk: i did ask you to fix the config and check
[02:17] <mdz> Kamion: having stared at it for a while longer, if it builds -Wall clean then let's do it
[02:17] <Keybuk> fabbione: first let me get the current set of logs and current config online
[02:18] <Keybuk> it's just finishing booting again
[02:18] <fabbione> Keybuk: i assume this is today's live cd
[02:18] <fabbione> or is it an older one?
[02:18] <Kamion> mdz: there are some warnings from /usr/include/gtkmm-2.4/gtkmm/treeview.h and an old warning in Win_GParted.cc, but both are unrelated
[02:18] <Keybuk> fabbione: today's
[02:18] <Kamion> mdz: I'm trying to reproduce the problem here
[02:19] <infinity> mdz: FYI, both OOo and OOo-l10n are still building... Cross your fingers.
[02:19] <Kamion> vmware snapshots are fabulous
[02:19] <pitti> Kamion: darn, I don't remember exactly any more. In which package's PO file is this?
[02:19] <mdz> infinity: how long have they been building now?
[02:19] <Kamion> pitti: that's what I'm trying to work out ;-)
[02:19] <pitti> darn, sorry
[02:19] <Kamion> pitti: it'll be somewhere in ubiquity/d-i/source/partman*, I expect
[02:23] <Keybuk> fabbione: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/mac-problems/
[02:23] <Keybuk> fabbione: that's the generated log and conf file
[02:23] <fabbione> Keybuk: checking
[02:23] <pitti> Kamion: I can't find the string anywhere in ubiquity source now; I can reproduce the issue later and check again
[02:25] <fabbione> Keybuk: can't fix 
[02:25] <fabbione> (WW) R128(0): Can't determine panel dimensions, and none specified.
[02:25] <fabbione> 	Disabling programming of FP registers.
[02:25] <fabbione> not for live at least
[02:25] <mdz> Kamion: I only get the Win_GParted.cc warning
[02:25] <fabbione> you get asked for the resolution on alternate
[02:25] <Keybuk> fabbione: I didn't ask for anything?
[02:25] <Keybuk> what's "alternate" ?
[02:26] <fabbione> Keybuk: new policy says that we are not allowed to ask questions on LiveCD
[02:26] <Keybuk> fabbione: dude, this is a PowerBook ... they're practically standard equipment
[02:26] <Keybuk> are you seriously telling me that the PowerPC live CD won't work properly?
[02:26] <fabbione> Keybuk: if your panel doesn't return info there is nothing i can do
[02:27] <fabbione> Keybuk: alternate -> see u-d-a about renaming CD
[02:27] <fabbione> Keybuk: it could even be your panel that's broken
[02:27] <fabbione> or an older modle
[02:27] <fabbione> model
[02:27] <fabbione> works fine here
[02:27] <fabbione> mine does return the info
[02:28] <Keybuk> it's a not unreasonably old model
[02:28] <Riddell> hmm, kubuntu amd64 live CD has magically grown by 40MB
[02:28] <ogra> woah
[02:28] <fabbione> Keybuk: and the concept of standard is crap like it is for x86. Apple did upgrades internal stuff across time
[02:28] <ogra> 40 ?
[02:28] <fabbione> Keybuk: like they did with mine
[02:28] <Keybuk> changing the resolution in xorg.conf didn't work
[02:28] <Keybuk> X ignored it and used 1024x768 anyway
[02:29] <fabbione> Keybuk: you will also need to fix the HorizSync and VertFresh
[02:29] <ogra> Keybuk, modeline ? 
[02:29] <ogra> yeah or what fabbione said
[02:29] <Keybuk> dude, the LiveCD should do this!
[02:29] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: does ddcprobe return useful values?
[02:29] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: no, it shouldn't since that breaks installs from live cd.
[02:29] <fabbione> Mithrandir: no it doens't.. 
 fabbione: xresprobe ati -- blanks the screen, and then just says "id:\nres:\nfreq:\ndisplaytype: lcd/lvds"
[02:30] <Riddell> ogra: yes
[02:30] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: casper.log svp?
[02:30] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: what would be "useful values" from ddcprobe?
[02:31] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: the resolution you expect as well as sane frequency information
[02:31] <ogra> Riddell, thats heavy ... did pitti add your langpacks back secretly ? 
[02:31] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: neither of those are returned by ddcprobe
[02:31] <Riddell> oh, I added de to language-support, that'll be it
[02:31] <Keybuk> there aren't even empty fields for them
[02:31] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: what does casper.log look like, then?
[02:33] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/mac-problems/casper.log
[02:34] <Kamion> Riddell: I recommend never adding anything but en to language-support
[02:35] <Riddell> less learnt :)
[02:35] <Riddell> lesson
[02:35] <infinity> mdz: Just around 6.5 hours... So... They'll fail soon... Or not.
[02:35] <infinity> mdz: Oh, crap.  OOo just failed.  Karma.
[02:35] <mdz> infinity: well at least we have a build tree where we can try to reproduce now
[02:35] <mdz> right?
[02:36] <pitti> ogra, Riddell: I didn't touch the kubuntu seeds
[02:36] <infinity> mdz: Oh well, at least i have a build tree to play with now.
[02:36] <mdz> infinity: I wouldn't mind a copy of the log
[02:36] <infinity> mdz: Yeah.  I'll play after I'm done eating lunch.
[02:36] <KaiL> Xorg 7.1 is raus - mit AIGLX ;)
[02:36] <mdz> infinity: not the useless output from the build, but the log file it mentions in the error message
[02:36] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, I'll pass you the log, and tar up the tree too.
[02:36] <KaiL> oops, wrong window
[02:36] <Kamion> mdz: I may have to take this back. I can't reproduce any difference between gparted before and after.
[02:36] <ogra> pitti, i was kidding :)
[02:36] <Kamion> (on the upside that means the backport works)
[02:37] <pitti> Kamion: hm, the ubiquity part succeeded, but boot fails with '/pci@...,/boot/vmlinux: Unknown or corrupt file system'; not my day, I suppose
[02:37] <ogra> pitti, indeed you didnt
[02:37] <Kamion> pitti: am I lucky enough that that was with debugging?
[02:37] <infinity> mdz: You don't want the log.  I'll give it to you anyway, but it's useless at first glance.
[02:37] <Kamion> pitti: and does the OF path in that error message look right?
[02:38] <Kamion> pitti: and can you mount the file system from the live CD?
[02:38] <pitti> Kamion: disk@0:4 is /dev/hda4? that might be the swap partition, I thought /dev/hda3 was /
[02:38] <pitti> Kamion: will check
[02:38] <mdz> infinity: it doesn't contain the output which was redirected 2>&1 from the failing command?
[02:38] <lifeless> Kamion: what are usful diagnostics when the livecd (current) fails to setup a working X?
[02:38] <infinity> mdz: http://vernadsky.buildd/~adconrad/
[02:38] <pitti> Kamion: no debugging, I didn't stop and start ubiquity after unmounting the device; I just did partitioning again
[02:38] <fabbione> Kamion: missing the docs on x86, otherwise we are there :)
[02:38] <Kamion> pitti: partitions are 1-based from yaboot, yes
[02:38] <lifeless> Kamion: friend of mine on his work machine, does not have IRC from his office.
[02:39] <Kamion> lifeless: /var/log/casper.log, /var/log/Xorg.0.log, I believe
[02:39] <Kamion> fabbione: what happened to the docs?
[02:39] <pitti> Kamion: oh, I think I know what's wrong - yaboot also offers me hda7-Linux, which doesn't even exist any more, and /dev/hda4 was my old /
[02:39] <fabbione> lifeless: xorg.conf, output from xresprobe $driver and lspci -n + a bug in LP please
[02:39] <pitti> Kamion: so I think it didn't install yaboot
[02:39] <Kamion> pitti: so yaboot installation failed
[02:39] <fabbione> Kamion: nothing.. it's building the docs now...
[02:39] <fabbione> Kamion: nevermind. installing now :)
[02:40] <fabbione> lifeless: + what Kamion said
[02:40] <Kamion> pitti: damn, that means it probably didn't save the logs either
[02:41] <Kamion> I'm really tempted to add a last-minute fix to at least detect errors from install.py and tell the user, even if the message isn't translated and isn't very helpful
[02:41] <Kamion> mdz: ^-- ?
[02:44] <Riddell> pitti: language-pack-kde-tl-base lacks the needed entry.desktop file
[02:45] <pitti> Riddell: if you have one, I can quickly upload just this one
[02:45] <Riddell> [KCM Locale] 
[02:45] <Riddell> Name=Tagalog
[02:45] <Riddell> voila
[02:46] <Riddell> there isn't one in KDE's SVN
[02:46] <mdz> Kamion: I thought you did something similar already?
[02:46] <Kamion> mdz: for everything but crashes from install.py
[02:47] <mdz> Kamion: I'm happy to review a patch
[02:47] <fabbione> Kamion: x86 is go
[02:47] <Kamion> preparing one
[02:47] <fabbione> Kamion: uploading...
[02:47] <Kamion> fabbione: thanks
[02:48] <fabbione> Kamion: no problem.. thanks Ben for the release.. i just did the builds and smoothed a couple of corners
[02:48] <pitti> Riddell: alright, I'll add it
[02:48] <Riddell> pitti: thanks
[02:49] <Riddell> carlos: shall I post to KDE translators about rosetta?
[02:50] <infinity> mdz: I'm tarring up the failed chroot so I can mangle it and return to the point of failure... Will start investigating after that.
[02:51] <mdz> infinity: good plan
[02:51] <carlos> Riddell: don't worry about it, I'm writting the annoucement email for the whole dapper archive
[02:51] <omeg> Hi there.
[02:51] <Riddell> carlos: oh cool
[02:53] <omeg> Not a whole lot going on here.
[02:53] <omeg> I'm a little bored at work.
[02:53] <iwj> Kamion: Can I delete that test yaboot stuff from the other day or might we need it again ?
[02:54] <Kamion> iwj: could you keep it for a while?
[02:54] <Kamion> I suppose I should have taken a copy
[02:54] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-install-crash.diff
[02:55] <pitti> Riddell: uploaded
[02:56] <mdz> Kamion: fine with me
[02:56] <j^> these subpixel font rendering patches <http://turnerdavid.neuf.fr/freetype/patches/font-patches.html> are realy nice
[02:57] <iwj> Kamion: sure.  I was just having a tidy up.
[02:57] <Kamion> mdz: mistake in the kde-ui bit; updated
[02:57] <pitti> Kamion: there's no /etc/yaboot.conf on the installed partition
[02:58] <mdz> Kamion: ah, right. ok
[02:58] <pitti> bah, and neither an installer nor partman log
[02:59] <mdz> BenC: it is time to start taking the kernel freeze seriously.
[02:59] <Kamion> pitti: yeah, logs are copied afterwards unfortunately
[02:59] <Kamion> after yaboot installation
[03:00] <pitti> Kamion: I guess the best I can do is to reattempt the installation with verbose logging and save the logs right away
[03:00] <pitti> before rebooting
[03:00] <Kamion> pitti: yeah, I was just about to ask for that
[03:01] <Kamion> pitti: the fix I'll upload once I've tested it will mean you won't be able to miss this sort of failure by accident again
[03:01] <BenC> mdz: Yeah, this mess from yesterday on was unfortunate
[03:01] <pitti> hi BenC 
[03:01] <ogra> hmm
[03:01] <BenC> hey pitti
[03:01] <pitti> BenC: any chance to add the missing CVE numbers to the next upload? I also added more stuff to https://wiki.canonical.com/KernelSecurity (some trivial, but important fixes)
[03:02] <BenC> pitti: I have all those updates, just checking the new ones now
[03:02] <ogra> Kamion, did edubuntu not get a new livefs in last nights build ? i still have the old usplash on my recent isos
[03:02] <Kamion> ogra: dunno, check the logs
[03:02] <mdz> BenC: yes, this is the reason why the deadline was last week rather than this week
[03:02] <pitti> BenC: the new ones are starting from CVE-2006-1528 downwards on that page
[03:03] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/liveLogs/dapper/edubuntu/current/livecd-20060523-i386.out says usplash 0.2-4
[03:03] <Kamion> ogra: oh, there just hasn't been a CD build since the livefs build. the cron job timings are perhaps unfortunate
[03:04] <Kamion> ogra: feel free to start one
[03:05] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-install-crash.png <-- result
[03:05] <infinity> I wonder if that tar will ever return...
[03:05] <infinity> ogra: I'm going to poke at your usplash right now.  What was the complaint, exactly?
[03:06] <Kamion> and the actual reason install.py crashed shows up in /var/log/installer/syslog
[03:06] <mdz> Kamion: the word wrap on the URL is unfortunate
[03:06] <mdz> Kamion: maybe just leave off +filebug since there's a "Report a bug" link on /ubiquity/
[03:07] <mdz> or make the window wider
[03:07] <infinity> Or make it /+bugs, since they'll get to see all the duplicates beforehand. :)
[03:07] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/ is a little overwhelming to the uninitiated
[03:08] <ogra> KaiL, oki
[03:08] <ogra> err
[03:08] <ogra> s/KaiL/Kamion
[03:08] <Kinnison> Kamion: Hehe
[03:08] <KaiL> ;)
[03:08] <ogra> infinity, the fontcolors are wrong
[03:08] <Kamion> I'll see if I can make it wider somehow
[03:09] <mdz> Kamion: don't sweat it; it's fine as-is if that's not trivial
[03:09] <infinity> ogra: Kay.  Poking.
[03:09] <ogra> infinity, i have a white progressbar background with a yellow bar, dark brown font scrolling and no sight of ok or failed messages at all
[03:10] <ogra> infinity, intrestingly there is no white defined at all according to omeg
[03:10] <infinity> ogra: Okay.  omeg sent me the right colours in /msg, so I may just have to reindex the palette for you.
[03:10] <ogra> yep
[03:10] <infinity> ogra: I'll look anyway.
[03:11] <sladen> Kamion: could you get the installer-crash dialogue to copy all the files it needs onto the desktop
[03:13] <Kamion> sladen: not for dapper
[03:13] <ogra> sladen, would you make the effort to set up a mail account on a liveCD to send these files if you're annoyed already that it didnt work ?
[03:13] <Kamion> sladen: plus I want to do as little as possible in the crash handler
[03:14] <Kamion> sladen: I would generally appreciate a reduction in the density of random ideas at the moment, btw :)
[03:14] <Kamion> now is not the best time
[03:18] <infinity> ogra: Uhh, the PNG you're shipping isn't the one omeg gave you....
[03:18] <infinity> ogra: That could have something to do with the problem.
[03:19] <ogra> infinity, yep, i didnt have any other, wasnt aware there were many changes
[03:20] <infinity> ogra: I'm confused.  You had his latest copy in edu_FIXED_retry.png in the root of your package, but didn't actually use it in art/usplash.
[03:20] <ogra> oops
[03:20] <infinity> ogra: So, is it the stuff in art/usplash that's broken, or the one he sent you? :)
[03:20] <ogra> i forgot to clean up, its copied into art/usplash as well
[03:20] <infinity> ogra: Anyhow, I have it all sitting here now, let me test locally and I'll upload what works. :)
[03:20] <ogra> it should be the same png all over
[03:21] <infinity> ogra: No, it's not copied.  Those images are different (diff doesn't lie, and the palettes are different too)
[03:21] <ogra> i just didnt clean up the source package
[03:21] <ogra> hmm, k
[03:21] <ogra> then i was probably to tired, sorry
[03:21] <infinity> Anyhow, let me test with his and see how it looks.  If it looks cool, I'll just upload what I have here.
[03:21] <ogra> yep
[03:25] <infinity> ogra: Figured I'd fix your clean target while I was at it..
[03:25] <ogra> :)
[03:25] <ogra> whats wrong with it ? 
[03:26] <ogra> (admittedly i didnt change anything in the packaging since i created the package based on the old ubuntu-artwork)
[03:26] <infinity> ogra: Doesn't delete usplash-artwork.png, so you end up with two copies of the PNG in the source.
[03:27] <ogra> infinity, oh, i thought that was intentional *g*
[03:27] <_ion> Now that the "Ubuntu Dapper Beta" text was removed from the Ubuntu Lagoon wallpaper, it looks nice scaled to the 8:3 aspect ratio i'm using. :-)
[03:27] <Kinnison> mdz: Is http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/acpi-support_83-84.debdiff okay for me to upload?
[03:28] <mdz> Kinnison: sure
[03:28] <Kinnison> cool
[03:28] <mdz> Kinnison: "Uknown" isn't a typo?
[03:28] <Kinnison> Nope
[03:28] <Kinnison> It's what comes out of dmidecode
[03:28] <Kinnison> gotta love gash laptop manufs
[03:28] <_ion> Hehe.
[03:28] <seb128> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/shared-mime-info.debdiff ok to upload?
[03:28] <_ion> It probably would be a good idea to add a comment about that string.
[03:28] <_ion> # "Uknown" is not a tpyo
[03:29] <Kinnison> _ion: true :-)
[03:29] <seb128> mdz: we didn't have the alias before and it used to work fine, dropping it seems to be fine and workaround the issue
[03:29] <Kamion> mdz: I can't manage to make the URL not wrap without making the filenames wrap in turn. I'll just leave it as-is.
[03:30] <mdz> seb128: why was the alias added; does it serve a purpose?
[03:30] <mdz> Kamion: no worries
[03:30] <Kinnison> _ion: thanks for the suggestion
[03:30] <mdz> Kamion: I now have an XP install in VMWare for testing purposes so I can fiddle with gparted a bit
[03:33] <mdz> ick, the gnome-power-manager reconfig adds a good 10 seconds to live CD boot
[03:34] <mdz> we should minimize that after dapper
[03:35] <seb128> mdz: I'm not sure of why upstream added the alias, the ChangeLog has no detail about it. Looks like upstream added aliases and sub-classes information where it made sense, but that particular change confuse gnomevfs. We had shared-mime-info without it previous cycle and it's not likely that dropping it would create an issue
[03:35] <mdz> seb128: ok, thanks.  fine to upload
[03:35] <seb128> thank you
[03:35] <hunger> What are my chances of seeing the shutdown-after-resume regression fixed in dapper?
[03:36] <hunger> Whom do I need to promise a beer to improve them? ;-)
[03:37] <Lure> Kinnison: can you whitelist HP nw8240 too (only minor glitch on resume on some models - see bug 33827)
[03:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33827 in acpi-support "suspend to RAM does not work on HP nw8240" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33827
[03:38] <Kinnison> Lure: let me read that bug, one se
[03:38] <Kinnison> +c
[03:39] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, just tried an ntfs resize with that patch applied and it failed
[03:39] <Kinnison> Lure: that bug doesn't look desperately positive
[03:40] <KaiL> huh? nonworking STR is worth a model specific bug? How many bugs do you want? ;)
[03:40] <janimo> infinity: can a build which failed but should work now w/o changes be kicked or does it need an explicit reupload for this?
[03:40] <Kamion> mdz: anything in /var/log/installer/syslog saying why?
[03:40] <iwj> Did I miss the introduction of some magic thing that edits .desktop files with data from Rosetta ?
[03:40] <janimo> tarball had timestamp in the future
[03:40] <mdz> Kamion: no, I'm trying it from the command line to see if I get any output from gparted
[03:41] <seb128> iwj: that magic is some months old
[03:41] <mdz> Kamion: (unless you have it going somewhere else)
[03:41] <mdz> the error dialog was unhelpful
[03:41] <seb128> iwj: it was a proper dapper spec and pitti has described changes made to the weekly meetings I think
[03:41] <Kamion> iwj: it doesn't edit them magically, but the code that reads .desktop files looks in language packs for extra translations
[03:41] <infinity> janimo: I can smack it.  What build?
[03:41] <janimo> infinity, thunar and xfdesktop
[03:41] <Kamion> mdz: not somewhere else, no; although gparted does act a little differently when called from the installer. hopefully not relevantly
[03:41] <janimo> thanks
[03:41] <sladen> Lure: 32785 was fixed a while back.  Can you get the latest packages and check that it works.  If it does, then we can white-list it
[03:42] <iwj> I have a bug report (Mlaone 45447) which has a diff for a Polish translation, and it's against a .desktop file which isn't one I've ever shipped.
[03:42] <Lure> Kinnison: other users have no problems - I was one of the rare one's with nw8240 that had this problem, but works with workaround (lid close/open)
[03:42] <infinity> janimo: In the future, try to avoid working in the future. :)
[03:42] <Lure> sladen: it works, but only after close/open lid workaround (Kubuntu up-to-date, will text Ubuntu thsi week)
[03:42] <seb128> iwj: language packs don't ship new .desktop, the changes are just for stuff using glib
[03:43] <janimo> infinity: yep :).  My clock only changed to UTC today, no idea why.
[03:43] <seb128> iwj: the change consist to make glib use gettext to get the translation before looking to the .desktop
[03:43] <iwj> So (a) where did this user get the old .desktop file and (b) where shall I have them send their translation ?  Or should I just take their translation and add it to my file ?
[03:43] <seb128> iwj: what bug #?
[03:43] <iwj> Malone 45447.
[03:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45447 in firefox "Add Polish language to .desktop files" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45447
[03:44] <Lure> sladen, Kinnison: will test Ubuntu today and report back and then we can decide if it is time left to sneak it in ;-)
[03:44] <seb128> iwj: $ grep "Firefox Web Browser" /usr/share/applications/*
[03:44] <seb128> /usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop:Name=Firefox Web Browser
[03:44] <seb128> firefox: /usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop
[03:44] <iwj> Yes ...
[03:44] <seb128> hum
[03:45] <iwj> Note that their diff has  < Name[pl_PL] =Firefox Web Browser   etc.
[03:45] <seb128> iwj: you have to edit the source package to add Name[pl] =Przegldarka WWW Firefox
[03:45] <iwj> So obviously something odd is going on.
[03:45] <mdz> Kamion: ooh, nice
[03:45] <Kamion> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeNamesToVersionNumbers seems to imply that we want to remove "Dapper Drake" (and for that matter "Breezy Badger" etc.) from synaptic's repository names; is that true?
[03:45] <seb128> no, diff is fine
[03:45] <mdz> Kamion: I get an empty dialog box with title "Error"
[03:46] <iwj> seb128: That's what I've generally been doing.  But normally the translator's diff is against a file which resembles mine.
[03:46] <Kamion> mdz: cool
[03:46] <iwj> Since this time it wasn't I thought I'd check that I'm not missing something.
[03:46] <mdz> Kamion: and on the console "Error reading inode 6435" and "Error reading inode 10410"
[03:46] <Kamion> mdz: anything special about the ntfs filesystem?
[03:46] <mdz> Kamion: it's a fresh XP install, booted once
[03:46] <mdz> Kamion: linked clone VMware guest
[03:46] <Kamion> I did a fresh XP install likewise, resized, worked for me
[03:46] <Kamion> how odd
[03:46] <iwj> Obviously their desktop file was generated by something which defaulted the [pl_PL]  to the English string.
[03:46] <iwj> (something = might be a person I suppose)
[03:46] <mdz> Kamion: let me try with the old gparted
[03:46] <seb128> iwj: dunno where the guy has found his file, that's not a part of the language pack changes afaik
[03:47] <mvo> Kamion: this page (codenametoversionnumers) is news for me
[03:47] <seb128> iwj: the language pack changes are to get the translation from gettext but since firefox doesn't use gettext, it doesn't apply
[03:47] <iwj> Then there's some source for these .desktop files that we don't know about ...
[03:47] <seb128> iwj: changing as you do usually should be just fine
[03:47] <iwj> OK.  And I should apply the translation to [pl]  and not (as the guy asks) to [pl_PL] , I presume.
[03:47] <Kamion> mdz: also the default home page and "About Ubuntu" still say "Dapper Drake" although they also mention the version number
[03:48] <Kamion> mdz: firefox says "Ubuntu/dapper" in its version info
[03:48] <seb128> iwj: I would say that "pl" is correct yep
[03:49] <mdz> iwj: as long as we're waiting on kernels and oo.o, could you fix that ^^^ ?
[03:49] <iwj> seb128: Right.
[03:49] <mdz> Kamion: ntfsresize -n succeeded fine
[03:49] <mdz> Kamion: ntfsresize -s tells me the journal is unclean, which is odd
[03:49] <iwj> Kamion: you mean the files in ubuntu-docs ?  I can fix that.
[03:50] <Kamion> iwj: I'm not sure yet whether we want to
[03:50] <Kamion> mdz: the firefox build version is the only place of those listed in CodeNamesToVersionNumbers where I see dapper without 6.06; do we even want to bother changing the rest now?
[03:50] <mdz> Kamion: booting windows confirms it thinks the fs was fucked
[03:51] <iwj> I don't think we should change the version info string; that appears in the user agent too and randomly messing with it is a bad idea.
[03:51] <Kamion> mvo: it was the result of an e-mail thread between me, mdz, silbs, and others
[03:51] <seb128> iwj: TomaszD on #ubuntu-bugs is the submitter
[03:51] <Kamion> mdz: fucked before gparted or after?
[03:51] <seb128> iwj: feel free to join #ubuntu-bugs if you want to speak with him
[03:51] <Kamion> iwj: happy to treat it like lsb-release DISTRIB_CODENAME
[03:51] <Kamion> (i.e. used by code, don't change)
[03:51] <iwj> seb128: Willdo.
[03:52] <mdz> Kamion: urgh, they don't say LTS yet either
[03:52] <mdz> we should fix as many as we can
[03:52] <mdz> dholbach: will you do ubuntu-artwork?
[03:52] <Kamion> mdz: so yes to removing "Dapper Drake"?
[03:52] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[03:53] <Kamion> mvo: can you remove codenames from released versions and dapper in synaptic, then, and change "Ubuntu 6.06" to "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS"?
[03:54] <mvo> Kamion: ok, I'll change the software properties tool and the dist-upgrader
[03:54] <Kamion> iwj: please go ahead and fix ubuntu-docs, then: "Ubuntu 6.06, Dapper Drake" -> "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS"
[03:54] <Kamion> hopefully it's possible to adapt translations too
[03:55] <iwj> Kamion: wilco.
[03:56] <mvo> I can't say that I'm happy about this because it will break some translaitons (e.g. CD dist with Ubuntu 'Dapper Drake') 
[03:56] <ogra> mdz, does that apply to Riddell, janimo and me as well (removing dapper everywhere) ?
[03:57] <Kamion> mvo: can "Dapper Drake" simply be removed from translations?
[03:57] <mdz> ogra: yes
[03:57] <Kamion> mvo: if not, the lesser evil would be to manually unfuzzy the translations rather than breaking them
[03:57] <Kamion> mvo: can you clarify your (e.g.)?
[03:57] <ogra> mdz, oki
[03:58] <janimo> ogra, you mean from the desktop guides as well?
[03:58] <janimo> I that's the only place DD is mentioned in xubuntu
[03:58] <janimo> no artwork AFAIK had it
[03:58] <ogra> janimo, yep
[03:58] <Kamion> janimo: if it is possible and reasonably straightforward to do so
[03:58] <ogra> janimo, dont you have a firefox default page 
[03:58] <mvo> Kamion: well, there are strings like "CD disk with Ubuntu 6.06 'Dapper Drake' " I can try to unfuzzy them by hand 
[03:58] <mdz> Riddell: you get that?
[03:59] <janimo> Kamion: well xubuntu-docs will need an upload anyway these days to get the translated guides in so I'll ask the doc writer 
[03:59] <ogra> janimo, ah, i remember, its in -docs for xubuntu
[03:59] <Riddell> mdz: yes
[03:59] <janimo> ogra, oh right ff start page besides the guide
[03:59] <mdz> Kamion: resize worked this time
[04:00] <OculusAquilae> carlos: ping
[04:00] <mdz> Kamion: somewhere along the line the filesystem must have been corrupted, and ntfsresize was bailing out (and gparted not reporting anything useful)
[04:01] <Kamion> mdz: the "more useful reporting" patches in the new upstream release were one of the things I skipped, because they were huge
[04:01] <Kamion> so hopefully we'll get that fixed in edgy
[04:01] <carlos> OculusAquilae: pong
[04:01] <Kamion> mdz: you know ship-live has actually worked out fairly well
[04:01] <mdz> Kamion: oh good
[04:02] <Kamion> mdz: if you leave the live CD in post-installation, you get a pop-up when you first log in asking you if you want to launch synaptic, which then does apt-cdrom and sorts it all out
[04:02] <Kamion> not a bad UI
[04:02] <OculusAquilae> carlos: could you check if the language-files of ktorrent get imported in the language-packs? They are firstly builded today.
[04:02] <mdz> Mithrandir: have you been able to confirm the casper /dev/console fix in an official CD build?
[04:03] <Kamion> we decided to give up langpacks for build-essential and linux-headers, didn't we?
[04:03] <Kamion> I'd better do that soon
[04:03] <mdz> Kamion: resize was successful, and XP booted and succeeded in its filesystem check
[04:03] <carlos> OculusAquilae: is the first time we build that package in main?
[04:04] <OculusAquilae> carlos: no, but the first time the language-files are generated
[04:04] <mdz> interestingly, windows claims it found new devices since the reboot
[04:05] <carlos> OculusAquilae: then it will not be part of the dapper's language packs until the update we will do a month after release
[04:05] <carlos> OculusAquilae: the final language packs were already built
[04:05] <Kamion> pitti: is your report on langpack sizes on the web somewhere?
[04:05] <pitti> Kamion: it will be in a minute :)
[04:05] <carlos> OculusAquilae: anyway, let me check to be sure that it's all ready to have it as part of the next update...
[04:06] <OculusAquilae> carlos: also when the translation-freeze is on thursday?
[04:06] <Keybuk> oh, wow, that's kinda off
[04:06] <Keybuk> odd, even
[04:06] <Keybuk> a filling just fell out
[04:07] <pitti> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/langpacksize.txt
[04:07] <Kamion> pitti: thanks
[04:07] <ogra> Keybuk, so head to the dentist then ...
[04:07] <pitti> Kamion: 'G' for base+gnome (i. e. ubuntu), 'K' for base+KDE (kubuntu)
[04:07] <pitti> Kamion: G+K for edubuntu (which has both)
[04:07] <carlos> pitti: OculusAquilae did a good point... the language pack translation deadline is next Thursday... you should do an update...
[04:07] <pitti> Kamion: second half of columns are cumulative sizes
[04:08] <pitti> Kamion: and the ordering is the one we prefer (English first, then the top 11, then alphabetically)
[04:08] <Kamion> carlos: this Thursday, not next Thursday
[04:08] <Keybuk> ogra: it's not hurting, so I'll do it when I'm less busy :)
[04:08] <Kamion> next Thursday is release
[04:08] <OculusAquilae> carlos: that's also what the guys in the german translator MailingList think
[04:08] <carlos> Kamion: well, sorry, I was talking about the day after tomorrow
[04:08] <kagou> smurf: around ?
[04:08] <bddebian> Morning folks
[04:09] <kagou> is smurf in vacations ?
[04:10] <bddebian> Keybuk: Is the meeting on today or no?
[04:10] <Kamion> bddebian: see ubuntu-devel-announce@
[04:10] <Kamion> mdz: with the exception of the codenames stuff and the release announcement, I believe the rest of ReleaseChecklist "Before building candidates" is done
[04:10] <Kamion> and the release announcement doesn't really have to be before building candidates
[04:10] <mdz> Kamion: excellent
[04:11] <ogra> bddebian, i think only the kubuntu meeting took place this week, all others are cnacelled
[04:11] <Keybuk> bddebian: no.
[04:11] <mdz> Kamion: traditionally it hasn't been, but we can try ;-)
[04:11] <bddebian> OK, thx
[04:11] <mdz> Kamion: I'll work on the announcement
[04:11] <mdz> iwj: eek
[04:11] <Kinnison> sladen: what do you think about Lure's whitelist request?
[04:12] <carlos> OculusAquilae: ktorrent is missing the .pot file
[04:12] <OculusAquilae> hm
[04:12] <carlos> OculusAquilae: you should create it on build time
[04:13] <mdz> seb128: what version of GNOME should we say that we ship in final?  we seem to have 2.14.0, 2.14.1, 2.14.2, 2.14.3 and 2.14.4  packages
[04:13] <mdz> Riddell: same question for KDE
[04:13] <Keybuk> mdz: "2.14" ? :)
[04:13] <seb128> mdz: we have 2.14.1 
[04:14] <Riddell> mdz: 3.5.2
[04:14] <seb128> mdz: technically it's 2.14.1, 2.14.2 is due next week
[04:14] <OculusAquilae> carlos: hm, that's right
[04:14] <seb128> (mdz: with a good part of the CVS fixes for 2.14.2)
[04:14] <mdz> seb128: ok, thanks
[04:15] <seb128> np
[04:15] <Kamion> did the release notes get removed from ubuntu-docs?
[04:15] <Mithrandir> mdz: doing so now, had to sync down the latest image first
[04:16] <Kamion> ReleaseChecklist says to check them but I can't find them
[04:16] <seb128> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/enchant.debdiff ok to upload?
[04:16] <seb128> s#beeing#being
[04:17] <mvo> Kamion: do we want: "Ubuntu 6.06 Security Updates" or "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS Security Updates" for the repository label? i.e. LTS after every 6.06? with or without a single space? (6.06LTS vs 6.06 LTS)?
[04:17] <Kamion> mvo: LTS, with space
[04:17] <sladen> Kinnison: I'm was happy with it.  Now I think about it more, we're white-listing machines with known-perfect working Suspend.  In this case there's a hardware bug (it seems) that requires the LID switch pressing to turn on the backlight
[04:18] <mdz> Kamion: trivial first draft based on Beta announcement: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseCandidateAnnouncement
[04:18] <Kinnison> sladen: Right
[04:18] <Kinnison> sladen: I think I need to go and register at the local doctor's surgery, but once I get back from tha acpi-support (0.84) dapper; urgency=low
[04:18] <sladen> Kinnison: and g-p-m allow Suspend to be enabled with a warning otherwise anyway
[04:18] <Kinnison>  .
[04:18] <Kinnison>    * Whitelist another laptop (Ubuntu #44781)
[04:18] <Kinnison>      - Hewlett-Packard Pavilion ZV6000
[04:18] <Kinnison>    * Add whitelist for bizarre old laptop (Closes: Ubuntu #38174)t I acpi-support (0.84) dapper; urgency=low
[04:18] <Kinnison>  .
[04:18] <Kinnison>    * Whitelist another laptop (Ubuntu #44781)
[04:18] <Kinnison> My trackpad has taken to pasting at odd times
[04:18] <Kinnison>      - Hewlett-Packard Pavilion ZV6000
[04:18] <Kinnison> I'm really sorry about that
[04:18] <Kinnison> feck
[04:19] <Kinnison> sladen: Once I get back from the surgery I'll whitelist that laptop
[04:19] <Mithrandir> mdz: seemed to work fine for me.
[04:19] <sladen> Kinnison: is it seeing three-fingers as a middle-button paste?
[04:19] <mdz> Kamion: I thought you said the 0% new partition size was just a display problem, but clicking Forward without twiddling it failed for me
[04:19] <Keybuk> mdz: still says "text-mode installer" under "Installation and Upgrades"
[04:19] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: hmm, yours too?  My desktop's mouse has begun behaving weirdly too.
[04:19] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: unsure if it's a hardware failure or not.
[04:19] <Mithrandir> (old mouse)
[04:19] <Kinnison> sladen: It doesn't do multifinger
[04:19] <Kamion> mdz: oh, I *thought* it was just a display problem then. :(
[04:20] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: I think mine is being sensitive. My thumb hovers near the corner which I have set as middle button
[04:20] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: ok, probably not a software bug, then.
[04:20] <Mithrandir> anyway, gotta go to the shop and suck, bbl.
[04:20] <sladen> Kinnison: Rejected.  non-default config.  Go and see the doctor
[04:20] <Kinnison> sladen: *g*
[04:21] <mdz> Keybuk: please fix
[04:22] <Keybuk> mdz: done
[04:22] <jcole> honestly, what works better totem-xine or totem-gstreamer
[04:22] <Kamion> Mithrandir: happy sucking
[04:22] <bddebian> uhh
[04:23] <seb128> jcole: depend of what you play
[04:24] <ogra> depends on your arch :)
[04:24] <Kamion> Riddell,ogra,janimo: I'd suggest being very careful about your next merge of the Ubuntu seeds; only take my addition of build-essential/fakeroot/linux-headers to the ship-live seed if you have room
[04:24] <ogra> Kamion, i'm alsways careful about the  merges :)
[04:24] <infinity> Kamion: So, ship-live IS happening?
[04:24] <ogra> its already there :)
[04:24] <Kamion> I left out bzr and cvs, those take 2MB or so
[04:24] <Kamion> infinity: it's there, I'm just extending it
[04:25] <Kamion> infinity: couple of days ago
[04:25] <seb128> mdz: did you read about http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/enchant.debdiff ? that's a trivial g_new to g_new0 change and fix a crasher; it's ready to upload :p
[04:25] <tseng> jcole: this really isnt the place and definately not the time, please try #ubuntu
[04:25] <infinity> Kamion: Cool.  I vaguely recall some flamefest about it, then nothing.
[04:25] <Kamion> 2006-05-18 according to my batched-up activity reports
[04:25] <jcole> tseng: ok
[04:25] <dholbach> mdz: I'll have a look - any particular occasion you spotted it in u-a?
[04:25] <mdz> seb128: no, if you mentioned it before I must have missed it
[04:25] <mdz> seb128: looks fine
[04:25] <mdz> dholbach: it's on the list
[04:25] <seb128> mdz: yeah, some minutes ago, thank you
[04:25] <mdz> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeNamesToVersionNumbers
[04:26] <mdz> dholbach: and the default firefox home page is rather visible ;-)
[04:26] <dholbach> mdz: that's ubuntu-docs - don't ask, why it install to ubuntu-artwork - we deferred that to edgy
[04:26] <mdz> dholbach: well, in that case shame on me for assuming that /usr/share/doc/foo belongs to foo ;-)
[04:27] <dholbach> mdz: yeah - shame on you :-p
[04:27] <Kamion> s,doc/,, at least ;-)
[04:27] <mdz> whatev
[04:28] <infinity> mdz: How fast can you download 2 gigs from the DC? :)
[04:28] <infinity> (That's how big the tarball ended up)
[04:29] <bddebian> Heya infinity
[04:29] <mdz> infinity: fast
[04:29] <dholbach> mdz: i see that example-content needs some love - I'll look at it
[04:29] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[04:29] <mdz> infinity: under an hour, I estimate
[04:30] <mdz> infinity: any progress with it?
[04:30] <infinity> mdz: I'm dangerously close to bedtime here, but if you wanted to give OOo more love, it fails nearly instantly if you "sudo mount -t proc proc-test chroot-autobuild/proc ; sudo chroot chroot-autobuild/ su - buildd", then cd to /build/buildd/whatever and "fakeroot debian/rules binary"
[04:30] <infinity> mdz: If you've not the time, I'll have to attack it with fresh vigor and a fresh mind tomorrow morning.
[04:30] <ogra> mdz, going there by tube with a dvdrw in your bag would be faster ;)
[04:31] <Kamion> from Mossop Street to Angel and back? no it wouldn't :)
[04:31] <ogra> oh, really ? i didt think its that far
[04:31] <ogra> *didnt
[04:31] <Kamion> takes five/ten minutes to get to the tube station, if nothing else
[04:31] <mdz> yep
[04:31] <jono> hey all
[04:31] <mdz> infinity: where is it?
[04:32] <bddebian> Hello jono
[04:32] <infinity> mdz: Making its way to chinstrap via scp...
[04:32] <jono> which package should a user install to install java?
[04:32] <jono> hey bddebian
[04:32] <Kamion> damn, forgot to upload ubuntu-meta so I overflowed the desktop CDs; working on it
[04:32] <pitti> Kamion: sorry for the delay, I had a RL business here; I finished the install with verbosity, and put the log to http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/syslog
[04:32] <infinity> jono: #ubuntu, please
[04:33] <jono> infinity: sorry, this is for the book, but your right I think
[04:33] <pitti> Kamion: it seems that it has trouble finding the kernel (from the exception); do you want me to file this as a bug? it might be something transient
[04:33] <Riddell> jono: do you have a phone number for jjesse?
[04:33] <jono> Riddell: nope
[04:33] <jono> Riddell: has he sent you the chapter?
[04:34] <dholbach> hum, seems that not even example-content needs changes
[04:34] <Riddell> jono: no, he says he's working on it but I'm not sure what the delay is
[04:34] <Kamion> pitti: bugger. please file bug
[04:34] <Kamion> it's not transient
[04:34] <jono> Riddell: hmmm, not sure
[04:35] <jono> Riddell: I thought he was getting it to you yesterday
[04:35] <dholbach> mdke: seems that ubuntu-docs needs some changes according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeNamesToVersionNumbers - if you want me to upload, once you guys could look at it, just tell me
[04:35] <infinity> mdz: chinstrap:~adconrad/chroot-ooo-failure.tar.bz2
[04:35] <Kamion> pitti: and it affects all powerpc installs. I WISH my powerbook's CD drive worked
[04:36] <ogra> Riddell, tsk, you want me to keep en_GB in edubuntu but drop de_DE from kubuntu ... pfft ...
[04:36] <pitti> Kamion: done, bug 46160
[04:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46160 in ubiquity "yaboot not installed" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46160
[04:36] <Kamion> ogra: he dropped language-support not language-pack
[04:36] <ogra> Kamion, :)
[04:37] <Riddell> ogra: only language-support, langauge-pack de is still there
[04:37] <heno> dholbach: I sent you a mail about example-content changes (I shrunk jono's book :) )
[04:38] <dholbach> heno: ah nice
[04:38] <jono> heno: shrunk? does this mean only mice can read it ?
[04:38] <jono> :P
[04:38] <ogra> its <6pt now :)
[04:38] <heno> jono: all the images are now rendered in 5 shades of pink, takes less space
[04:38] <ogra> to test our a11y implementation 
[04:39] <heno> no, I just did some png crunching
[04:39] <mdz> Kamion: will it not boot from a USB drive?
[04:40] <Kamion> mdz: probably, if I could find mine
[04:40] <Kamion> I just haven't had time for hardware maintenance around here
[04:41] <dholbach> hum - what's the question? I did two installs on a USB drive today
[04:41] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-fix-46160.diff OK once I've test-built it?
[04:41] <Kamion> we filter out base-installer/* from the templates file because it saves a credible amount of memory on the live CD, but base-installer/kernel/linux/link_on_boot is used by scripts/install.py on powerpc
[04:42] <infinity> s/on/in/, or is that typo entrenched in the code?
[04:43] <mdz> Kamion: I'm trying a test with auto-resize now, and it's taking *forever*. is that normal for ntfs/vmware?
[04:43] <infinity> Oh, I see it's "in" in the diff.  Phew. :)
[04:43] <Kamion> s/on/in/, correct (I cut-and-pasted it for the actual diff)
[04:43] <Kamion> mdz: it takes a fair while without feedback, yes
[04:43] <Kamion> might want to check that ntfsresize is actually still running
[04:44] <mdz> Kamion: it isn't
[04:44] <mdz> partman is
[04:44] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/partman-partitioning/+bug/14100
[04:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 14100 in partman-partitioning "partman doesn't provide ntfsresize status details" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[04:44] <Kamion> what's it doing?
[04:44] <mdz> no hard disk activity either
[04:44] <mdz> good question
[04:44] <Kamion> tail -f /var/log/partman
[04:44] <mdz> it's running 55divider_up at the moment
[04:45] <Kamion> that's not usually good
[04:45] <mdz> seems to be looping
[04:45] <mdz> main_loop: iteration 1174
[04:45] <pitti> mdz: ok to fix a bunch of exploitable format string issues in dia?
[04:45] <Kamion> can I get the partman log?
[04:45] <mdz> Kamion: sure
[04:46] <mdz> Kamion: ignore the mail I just sent
[04:47] <mdz> Kamion: correct log is in the second message
[04:47] <Riddell> are packages being blocked?  I don't see kubuntu-meta 0.81 in launchpad
[04:48] <Kamion> Riddell: kubuntu-meta is in accepted
[04:48] <Kamion> Riddell: you uploaded it just over half an hour ago; the publisher has not run since then
[04:49] <Riddell> right, thanks
[04:52] <ogra> infinity, thanks for -artwork :)
[04:53] <Kamion> mdz: you don't happen to be running with UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1?
[04:54] <mdz> Kamion: no
[04:54] <mdz> Kamion: shall I kill it and try to reproduce again?
[04:55] <Kamion> mdz: could you strace the ubiquity process for a few seconds (enough for a loop or two) and send me that trace?
[04:56] <Kamion> mdz: also, anything interesting in /var/log/installer/syslog?
[04:56] <Riddell> hmm, there's a lot of "Dapper"s in kubuntu-docs, this is going to break every translation there is
[04:56] <Kamion> perhaps ssh access would be easier
[04:56] <Kamion> if possible
[04:56] <dholbach> mdz: ok to upload example-content in a bit? henrik saved us 1,7 MB
[04:56] <Kamion> Riddell: if it's not easy to do, then it's probably better to leave it as it is and remember to make it easy for next time
[04:56] <iwj> Riddell: I just ran a Perl script to update all the translations too.
[04:56] <mdz> dholbach: yes
[04:56] <iwj> (in ubuntu-docs)
[04:57] <mdke> erm
[04:57] <mdke> in all the docs we use Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper Drake)
[04:57] <mdke> so we use the version number
[04:57] <mdke> where the code name is used it is often intentional, I don't see how we can possibly script that change
[04:58] <mdke> and some languages won't be scriptable
[04:58] <mdz> Kamion: mailed
[04:59] <iwj> mdke: See above ^ where I was asked to change occurrences of `Ubuntu 6.06, Dapper Drake' to `Ubuntu 6.06 LTS'.  The ocurrences seem almost entirely to be in the startup page.
[04:59] <Riddell> iwj: are you going to commit to SVN?
[04:59] <iwj> Riddell: What, ubuntu-docs svn ?  No, I was going to upload.
[04:59] <mdke> iwj: I think my concerns apply
[05:00] <Riddell> iwj: it would be nice to be able to review it before uploading
[05:00] <mvo> mdz: do you want to see the debdiff for the 6.06->6.06LTS changes for the software-properties application ? 
[05:00] <mvo> or can I just upload
[05:01] <mdz> mvo: I'm happy to review it
[05:02] <iwj> mdke, Riddell: I have reviewed the diff (to source and to output).  The only files apart from *index*.html that have changed in the output is generic.ent, which had a 6.04 in it.
[05:02] <Kamion> if any change for this is hard or non-trivial, we should leave it be
[05:03] <Kamion> and change the processes for next time round so that we can switch more freely back and forward between codename and version number
[05:03] <mdke> iwj: we don't use generic.ent. is that installed?
[05:03] <Kamion> we want to be able to have user-facing documentation etc. refer to codenames (only) during development and version numbers (only) for release
[05:03] <iwj> Yes, /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu/libs/generic.ent.
[05:04] <iwj> My only change to that is 6.04 -> 6.06.
[05:04] <mdke> iwj: ok, that's superfluous i think.
[05:04] <mvo> mdz: thanks, its at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/update-manager_0.42.2ubuntu20.debdiff (a bit big, I update the translation from rosetta and unfuzzied all by hand, aptsources.py is not actually two times in the source tree but only once and a symlink, but the debdiff shows it two times, just ignore it, they are identical)
[05:04] <iwj> So are you now happy with me uploading ?
[05:05] <mdke> iwj: are you sure none of the docs have it in? about ubuntu contains "Ubuntu 6.06 - The Dapper Drake"
[05:05] <mdke> changing that will break translations and generally make me unhappy
[05:05] <mdz> mdke: that's not translated on the fly, is it?
[05:05] <iwj> "Ubuntu 6.06 - The Dapper Drake" != "Ubuntu 6.06, Dapper Drake"
[05:06] <mdke> right...
[05:06] <iwj> And, yes, I've done  diff -ruN w x 2>&1 |egrep '^\+\+\+' |sort
[05:06] <mdke> mdz: no. We can sync the translations up after release, I suppose
[05:06] <iwj> (w and x being before and after from dpkg -x)
[05:07] <mdz> mdke: if the change isn't propagated to the translations, that's not fatal
[05:07] <mdke> i personally think its nice to include the codenames as a secondary reference to identify a version with, especially in a document specifically about Ubuntu
[05:07] <pitti> mdz: ok to upload dia security update (format string) with this dpatch: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14552
[05:07] <mdz> changing it shouldn't cause any problem with the translations
[05:07] <bddebian> Ack, I have a dia desktop fix too.. Hmm
[05:07] <iwj> mdz, mdke: Let me know when you've decided.  I've got it here ready to go.
[05:07] <mdke> mdz: no. it will be one more string to translate after release though
[05:08] <iwj> (I do think it's a bit strange that the resulting new index.html doesn't contain the word `dapper' but I don't want to get involved in branding arguments ...)
[05:09] <mdke> i think index.html is a moot point and am happy to defer to the top level decisions
[05:09] <mdke> but in About Ubuntu, the whole point is that it provides information about the background to Ubuntu
[05:09] <mdke> i think codenames are a part of that
[05:10] <mdke> anyway, you guys take the decision, and let me know so that I can sync up the changes afterwards and notify the translators of the string change
[05:10] <iwj> mdke: I promise I haven't edited anything but *index*.html's.
[05:10] <janimo> Kamion , do I need to generate a new ubuntu-live to pick up the ship-live changes?
[05:11] <janimo> xubuntu-live I mean
[05:11] <Kamion> I don't mind not changing About Ubuntu if that seems best
[05:11] <Kamion> janimo: no
[05:11] <janimo> ok
[05:11] <Kamion> janimo: only if you've changed desktop or live
[05:11] <mdke> iwj, ok. If you're doing an upload, can you include the new ubuntu/desktopguide/sk directory from our repository? some emergency fixes for that language
[05:12] <Kamion> can anyone give me the smallest bit of shell they can think of to ensure that there is precisely one blank line at the end of a file?
[05:12] <iwj> Kamion: What's this, shell golf ?
[05:12] <Kamion> more minimal-change-to-package golf
[05:12] <iwj> mdke: Err, if it's going to be this hard I could email you the source debdiff.
[05:12] <Kamion> I don't mean runes, I suppose I mean the cleanest-and-small bit of shell they can think of
[05:13] <mdke> iwj: if it's hard, don't bother and I'll make a new package after yours
[05:13] <iwj> (cat file && echo) | tail -1   prints a blank line iff the file had a trailing newline.
[05:13] <Kamion> I suppose 'tail -n1 | grep . || echo'
[05:15] <Kamion> context is generating a debconf templates file from several pieces, being unsure if each piece ends with a trailing blank line, and wanting to ensure exactly one blank line between template stanzas because I can't remember if anything will break if that isn't true
[05:15] <iwj> Kamion: no, that doesn't work.   tail -n1 preserves the trailing newline or lack of it
[05:15] <Kamion> iwj: expand my statement to 'tail -n1 foo | grep . || echo >> foo', not '(tail -n1 foo | grep . || echo) >> foo'
[05:16] <iwj> cat file; test "x`(cat file; echo) | tail -n1`" = x || echo
[05:17] <mdke> iwj: alternatively, if it helps, there is a patch here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc-commits/2006-May/002610.html
[05:17] <mdke> your call as to what is easiest
[05:18] <iwj> Kamion:    printf yes >foo  ;    tail -n1 foo | grep . || echo >>foo
[05:18] <iwj> The rune for appending to foo prints `yes' and then foo still has no newline.
[05:18] <iwj> test "x`(cat foo; echo) | tail -n1`" = x || echo >>foo
[05:19] <iwj> Or some circumlocution if you want to worry about failing to read foo.
[05:20] <iwj> mdke: Do you have that patch not in HTML ?
[05:20] <mdke> iwj: sure, I have the email
[05:20] <iwj> mdke: Forward it to me, iwj@ubuntu.com.  Thanks.  I'll include it.
[05:21] <mdke> iwj: will do, thank *you*
[05:21] <janimo> Kamion, is it a problem if it just add a newline regardless if there's one already at athe end?
[05:22] <Kamion> iwj: sorry, I meant '... | grep -q . && echo >>foo' then
[05:22] <Kamion> janimo: I could use 'echo >> foo' if I wanted that :-P
[05:22] <Kamion> sed '$ { /./ { p; s/.*// } }'
[05:22] <janimo> I know, that's why I ask if it's a problem :)
[05:24] <iwj> Kamion: Err, your rune is still wrong.  Try it !  Use mine.
[05:24] <iwj> echo yes >foo  ;   tail -n1 foo | grep -q . && echo >>foo   ;   cat foo     and notice how your foo has two newlines at the end.
[05:24] <ogra> 7me wonders if iwj and Kamion really stop at the 18th green :)
[05:24] <janimo> is it certain the file does not already have more than one newline at the end?
[05:24] <mdke> iwj: sent
[05:24] <iwj> mdke: Ta.
[05:25] <ogra> (or has shell golf special rules?)
[05:25] <iwj> Kamion: my rune> test "x...  above.
[05:26] <Kamion> yes, thanks
[05:26] <bddebian> Hello sabdfl
[05:26] <dholbach> hey sabdfl!
[05:26] <sabdfl> hey guys
[05:27] <Kamion> iwj: but my rune is correct, I *want* "foo\n\n"
[05:27] <Kamion> trailing *blank* line not trailing newline
[05:28] <pitti> hi sabdfl, how are you?
[05:28] <sabdfl> guuuurd
[05:28] <sabdfl> well, sick puppy but at least capable of reading and typing today
[05:28] <sabdfl> some monstrous mexican microbe took me out
[05:28] <iwj> Kamion: Oh.  I should read more carefully.
[05:28] <pitti> sabdfl: ouch, not a plague again :/
[05:29] <iwj> test "x`tail -1 foo`" = x || echo >>foo     if you're guaranteed that the file has a trailing newline.
[05:29] <sabdfl> i don't blame anyone at debconf in particular
[05:29] <sabdfl> not that paranoid
[05:30] <mdke> it's in the water
[05:30] <sivang> sabdfl: err, drink some herbal tea :)
[05:31] <sabdfl> sivang: which herbs, in particular?
[05:31] <Kamion> iwj: yes, I am. I think our two approaches are the same modulo style then, so thanks :)
[05:31] <fabbione> sabdfl: marjuana :P
[05:31] <ogra> heh
[05:31] <sivang> sabdfl: well, what I take is what Kinnison calls pepper mint I think, in Hebrew/Arabic it's call "Na'a Na'a"
[05:32] <sivang> sabdfl: all camomile can help :)
[05:32] <sivang> and also what fabbione said :-D
[05:32] <mdke> iwj: also, if you can send me a debdiff, it would help for synching up the repo. No worries if you can't
[05:32] <dholbach> sabdfl: everybody expresses it differently, but they all want the best for you :-)
[05:33] <iwj> mdke: Willdo.
[05:34] <mdke> merci
[05:34] <iwj> Kamion: Yours has a uuogrep :-).
[05:34] <Kamion> iwj: yours has a uuotest ;-)
[05:34] <Kamion> (and a usubshell)
[05:35] <mdke> iwj: oh... and i suppose adding another translateable locale would be too much. it's in ubuntu-docs already
[05:35] <Kamion> though I did use roughly yours in the end
[05:35] <iwj> Subshells are bad, are they ?  I would generally fork a subshell rather than execute another command.  test is a builtin.  If it isn't, use case :-).
[05:35] <iwj> mdke: Is there an XPI ?  (If `no' the answer is an easy `no'.)
[05:35] <mdke> iwj: yeah. ka_GE
[05:35] <mjg59> sabdfl: How's the X60 behaving with the latest kernel?
[05:36] <iwj> And I think I want to say `no' anyway.  It's quite a faff to rebuild 4 dependent packages.  That's why I said to do them in batches !
[05:36] <sivang> guys, if someone got his sudoers file 0777 and sudo won't let him anymore, root is disabled, is there another way to undo the horror without a livecd ?
[05:36] <Kamion> iwj: fair enough
[05:36] <Kamion> sivang: boot in recovery mode
[05:36] <pitti> sivang: boot in rescue mode
[05:36] <mdke> iwj: yeah, totally understand. your call again
[05:36] <sivang> pitti, Kamion : thanks. it shouldn't require a password right?
[05:36] <Kamion> no
[05:36] <mdke> iwj: it would be the last one though *bats eyelids*
[05:36] <sivang> kool, ta
[05:36] <iwj> mdke: I mean, if you have time to prat about with null uploads of *-{docs,artwork} then I can do the ubuntu-docs change :-).
[05:37] <_ion> sivang: How the windows would someone get her sudoers file chmoded 0777 without intentionally doing that?
[05:37] <mdke> iwj: it's the other way around, I did the ubuntu-docs change and it's in the archive. But i don't have upload rights so I can't do the rest
[05:37] <sivang> _ion: godo question...nobody knows..
[05:38] <iwj> mdke: Urgh.
[05:38] <iwj> You MUST NOT DO THAT.
[05:39] <iwj> Because the next time m-f-l-all is uploaded, ka_GE users' browsers will mysteriously break.
[05:39] <sivang> anyway, I Have a machine to wipe, laters and thanks again.
[05:40] <iwj> Did you read the BIG FAT WARNING next to the locale list saying NOT TO EDIT IT without following the documented procedure, with ref to the doc, and everything ?
[05:40] <mvo> mdz: I'll leave for dinner now but will read scrollback, please let me know if I should upload the software-properties changes (http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/update-manager_0.42.2ubuntu20.debdiff)
[05:40] <mdke> iwj: sorry
[05:40] <iwj> mdke: What's the point of putting warnings like that in if you don't read them ?
[05:41] <iwj> You say this change is in the archive (by which you mean dapper I take it) and therefore also in SVN ?
[05:41] <ogra> dholbach, rspush ? 
[05:41] <Kamion> ogra: bzr help rspush
[05:41] <Keybuk> dholbach: isn't rspush bad?
[05:42] <ogra> dholbach, the new bzr is pretty quick via sftp
[05:42] <Kamion> Keybuk: not on a non-shared archive
[05:42] <janimo> backwards compatible feature? really slow push?
[05:42] <dholbach> Keybuk: it works nicely for me
[05:42] <ogra> Kamion, i know
[05:42] <Keybuk> Kamion: it's somewhat less efficient than an ordinary knit push isn't it?
[05:42] <pitti> Kamion: whoa, just read the ubuntu-meta changelog; did I overlook anything when I addded the last langpacks, or was something really big added recently?
[05:42] <Kamion> pitti: ship-live additions
[05:42] <ogra> Kamion, i just saw how fast the sftp implementation is now
[05:42] <mdz> mvo: sorry, am in the middle of several conversations
[05:42] <Kamion> oh, shrug, haven't compared
[05:42] <mdke> iwj: yes. i.e. number 1 in "Adding new locales" has been done
[05:42] <Kamion> mdz: hmm, that ubiquity strace is weird; working on it
[05:43] <ogra> Kamion, 20min vs 30sec is quite noticeable for me :)
[05:43] <ogra> (for a seed push)
[05:43] <mdz> iwj: lots of turmoil in scrollback, what's the situation with the docs update?
[05:43] <Kamion> ogra: that's weave vs. knit not rspush vs. push
[05:43] <seb128> I've to run for like half an hour, brb
[05:43] <Keybuk> ogra: 30s?  A seed push for me is now ~1s
[05:43] <mdke> iwj: if necessary, roll back number 1
[05:43] <ogra> Kamion, weave vs knit, both times with push
[05:43] <Kamion> ogra: that's what I sai
[05:43] <Kamion> ] d
[05:44] <Keybuk> I'm sure it'd be interesting to compare push vs. rspush with knit
[05:44] <iwj> mdke: Yes, I think we should roll it back.  I will do this in ubuntu-docs in dapper.  Are we sure that this will propagate to svn rather than unreverting ?
[05:44] <Keybuk> but I guess now is not the time ;)
[05:45] <mdke> iwj: i'll apply any debdiff you send me. Sorry about that
[05:45] <iwj> mdke: OK, thanks.  I'll clarify the wiki page to make it clear you can't go halfway through this process and leave it.
[05:45] <mdke> iwj, thanks. 
[05:45] <mdz> infinity: that chroot tarball is taking as long to unpack as it did to download
[05:46] <mdz> I think bzip2 was a net loss over gzip in this case
[05:46] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, I realised that about halfway through tarring it, but wasn't about to start over...
[05:47] <pitti> arrgh
[05:48] <Keybuk> pitti: talk like a pirate day?
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: sorry, I accidentally uploaded the dapper dia security update together with the stable-security ones (autofingers, sorry)
[05:48] <mdz> infinity: some weird stuff in here
[05:48] <mdz> pitti: it's not on any CDs, is it?  if not, it's OK
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: no, it's not
[05:49] <mdz> buildd@ubuntu:/build/buildd/openoffice.org-2.0.2$ fakeroot debian/rules binary
[05:49] <mdz> -su: /usr/bin/fakeroot: Permission denied
[05:49] <mdz> buildd@ubuntu:/build/buildd/openoffice.org-2.0.2$ ls -l /usr/bin/fakeroot
[05:49] <mdz> ---------- 1 root root 0 May 23 15:49 /usr/bin/fakeroot
[05:49] <Keybuk> 0 bytes?
[05:49] <mdz> interesting
[05:49] <infinity> !
[05:49] <mdz> that became a symlink when tar finally exited
[05:49] <mdz> but meanwhile it was a 0-byte, mode 0 regular file
[05:49] <pitti> Keybuk: you should use that compression algorithm for dpkg 2.0
[05:50] <dholbach> and save disk space
[05:50] <infinity> mdz: Oh, so that was just "tar being tar", then...  Is it still weird after tar's done? :)
[05:50] <mdz> infinity: no
[05:50] <mdz> but it's not failing either
[05:50] <infinity> Argh.
[05:50] <infinity> You mounted proc?
[05:50] <mdz> so I'm going to upload these binaries if it succeeds
[05:50] <mdz> yes
[05:51] <mdz> proc-test on /home/mdz/src/chroot-autobuild/proc type proc (rw)
[05:51] <infinity> If so, then the only (meaningful) difference here may be the kernel.
[05:51] <infinity> OTOH, it's both failed and succeeded in manual builds on the same machine.
[05:51] <mdz> infinity: what kernel are you running?
[05:51] <infinity> (That was the same machine where I previously had a successful manual build, though the buildd builds always fail)
[05:51] <mdz> this is 2.6.15-22
[05:51] <infinity> Linux vernadsky 2.6.12 #1 SMP Mon Jan 2 16:52:14 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
[05:52] <mdz> this happens to be an amd64 running i386 dapper
[05:52] <Kamion> mdz: upload these binaries> how? :)
[05:52] <infinity> elmo hand-roll, based on breezy sources.
[05:52] <mdz> Kamion: celso is across the table from me, conveniently
[05:52] <Kamion> heh
[05:52] <Kamion> "hey, soyuz, look! a fire engine!"
[05:52] <infinity> mdz: Can you ask celso to make sure to upload them through the buildd queue, and to twiddle the DB so the build comes up as "successful"?
[05:53] <infinity> mdz: I can do the latter part in the morning, if he hasn't.
[05:53] <Kamion> mdz: next round of server CD images will be called *-server-*
[05:53] <mdz> Kamion: thank you
[05:57] <mdz> Mithrandir: would you pull down this ooo chroot and try a build locally?  preferably on a breezy kernel
[05:57] <Kamion> mdz: I think http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-autopartition-loop.diff fixes your infinite loop, but I'm constructing a test now
[05:57] <mdz> Mithrandir: our best guess right now is that the kernel is triggering it
[05:57] <mdz> infinity: I don't suppose I can get access to the chroot where it actually fails, to debug
[05:58] <infinity> mdz: Ask elmo/Znarl for access to vernadsky.buildd with full sudo.  The chroot you have a copy of is in ~adconrad/
[05:58] <infinity> mdz: I don't hand out access to machines in the DC, so that's the best I can do. :)
[05:58] <mdz> Znarl: ?
[05:58] <mdz> Znarl: this is the only means available to me to debug this problem
[06:00] <infinity> mdz: I was going to lay into it with tracers and debuggers tomorrow, so if you have other stuff to attend to anyway (and these binaries work for us for now), you may not need to go there just yet.
[06:01] <infinity> Okay, Double-U Tee Eff, mate.
[06:01] <infinity> mdz: The OOo-l10n build I had going on terranova succeeded.  I'll upload those binaries post-haste.
[06:03] <mdz> Kamion: how did I trigger it?  by trying to click ahead without adjusting the slider first?
[06:03] <seb128> re
[06:03] <dholbach> wb seb
[06:03] <seb128> re dholbach :)
[06:05] <Kamion> mdz: I'm honestly not sure; somehow partman/choose_partition has ended up set to the empty string
[06:05] <bddebian> Heya seb128
[06:06] <bddebian> If one of you archive admins could take mercy on me, could you please look at the sync request for libspiffy-perl?  It's totally my fault :-(  Bug #44207
[06:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44207 in libspiffy-perl "UVF Exception (now sync) Request: libspiffy-perl" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44207
[06:08] <infinity> bddebian: On it.
[06:08] <Keybuk> infinity: go to bed :)
[06:08] <bddebian> infinity: You're my hero :-)
[06:08] <infinity> Keybuk: I'm scping crap around the DC and doing Very Bad Things.
[06:08] <infinity> Keybuk: So, I'm up for a bit anyway.
[06:08] <bddebian> heh
[06:08] <Keybuk> tsk
[06:08] <infinity> Keybuk: If you want to do this, though, be my guest.
[06:08] <Kamion> mdz: the same code is in partman_commit.py, and this doesn't seem to break anything at least ...
[06:08] <Keybuk> infinity: I am already
[06:08] <infinity> I see that. :)
[06:08] <Keybuk> (I had a drescher window just under this one)
[06:09] <bddebian> hehe
[06:09] <mdz> Kamion: I have reproduced the problem again after applying your patch
[06:10] <Keybuk> bddebian: done
[06:10] <bddebian> Keybuk: Rockin', thank you sir
[06:11] <Kamion> mdz: gar. debugging on this time?
[06:12] <mdz> Kamion: no, but I bet I can do it again
[06:12] <Kamion> mdz: that would be great
[06:13] <Keybuk> (switching machines to do some amd64/i386 testing)
[06:15] <Keybuk> Kamion: ppc alternate works nicely for me in all the tests I could think of
[06:18] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-autopartition-loop.diff updated with alternative approach, should be more foolproof
[06:20] <mdz> Kamion: log emailed (this is with an unpatched ubiquity)
[06:20] <mdz> will try fresh with that patch next
[06:23] <mdz> infinity: gar, the build just fails in a different way
[06:23] <mdz> trying to compress man pages which aren't there
[06:23] <infinity> mdz: Alright, I'll build it from scratch on terranova, which seems to succeed fine (uploading the -l10n build from terranova right now)
[06:23] <mdz> for i in calc math draw writer impress base; do \
[06:23] <mdz>                 find debian/openoffice.org-$i -type f -name "*.1" | xargs gzip -9; \
[06:23] <mdz>         done
[06:23] <mdz> gzip: compressed data not written to a terminal. Use -f to force compression.
[06:23] <mdz> For help, type: gzip -h
[06:24] <mdz> [etc.] 
[06:24] <mdz> there are no .1 files installed anywhere under debian/
[06:24] <mdz> probably an issue with resuming the build
[06:24] <infinity> mdz: I expect that's just some sort of breakage due to .. yeah.. that.
[06:25] <mdz> Kamion: oh, debug log mailed
[06:25] <mdz> never mind, I already told you that
[06:25] <infinity> mdz: In my pedantic mind, I think it should be an RC Policy violation when debian/rules binary can't roll back properly, but in practice, it affects almost no one (but me, and today you).. :)
[06:26] <infinity> Keybuk: OOo-l10n landed in NEW, if you're feeling ftpmasterish still.
[06:26] <Keybuk> infinity: sure
[06:26] <infinity> mdz: Shall I kick off OOo on terranova, just to get at least the binaries off our plate?
[06:26] <mdz> infinity: yes
[06:26] <mdz> Znarl is working on getting me access to the machine so I can continue the investigation
[06:27] <infinity> Okay, cool.
[06:27] <infinity> I'm working on getting to bed, which I'll do as soon as terranova's building. :)
[06:27] <Kamion> ogra: you still have language-support-es in edubuntu live; I have no sympathy with any further size complaints you have :P
[06:28] <ogra> Kamion, i just dropped french
[06:28] <infinity> mdz: You know the one thing I haven't tried, which I never think of on i386, since the kernels aren't generally insane like they are on hppa is "reboot the bloody buildds".
[06:28] <ogra> Kamion, should suffice for a working build
[06:28] <Kamion> ogra: drop language-support-es please
[06:28] <ogra> ok
[06:28] <Kamion> you can keep language-pack-es obviously
[06:28] <mdz> Kamion: still reproducible even with v2 of your patch
[06:28] <Kamion> but we only have language-support-en out of language-support-* on any of our CDs, because language-support-* is *HUGE*
[06:28] <Kamion> openoffice.org-help-es         | openoffice.org-l10n         | language-support-es       | Debian OpenOffice Team <debian-openoffice@lists.debian.org> |        11431894 |           24496
[06:29] <Kamion> for instance
[06:29] <ogra> woah
[06:29] <Kamion>   * language-pack-${Languages} [i386 amd64] 
[06:29] <Kamion>   * language-pack-gnome-${Languages} [i386 amd64] 
[06:29] <Kamion>   * language-pack-kde-${Languages} [i386 amd64] 
[06:29] <Kamion> - * language-support-${Languages} [i386 amd64] 
[06:29] <Kamion>   * Languages: zh es bn hi ar xh pt ru ja de
[06:29] <Kamion>   * language-pack-${Languages} [powerpc] 
[06:29] <Kamion> I'd apply that if I were you
[06:30] <janimo> ogra, do you think it would make sense asking for xubuntu/ltsp testers on the edubuntu list?
[06:30] <mdz> Kamion: I click forward without touching anything, and it tells me it couldn't make enough space.  when I then adjust the slider, I find that it's set by default to an absurdly small value (the amount of slack space that Windows didn't partition).  I then increase it to a reasonable value, click Forward, and it loops. every time.
[06:30] <infinity> ogra: And then re-add language-support-en somewhere.
[06:30] <janimo> since it's not quite edubuntu
[06:30] <Kamion> infinity: no need, that's done above
[06:30] <infinity> Kamion: Oh. :)
[06:30] <ogra> janimo, at least you will have the most concentrated amount of ltsp users there there 
[06:30] <infinity> Kamion: Needed more context in the diff. :)
[06:30] <janimo> ogra, ok
[06:31] <ogra> infinity, ?? it was never dropped
[06:31] <Kamion> ogra: ignore the above
[06:31] <Kamion> (infinity's comment; it's not relevant here)
[06:31] <infinity> ogra: Ignore me.
[06:31] <desrt> anyone remember those ubuntu laptop stickers that were at UBZ?
[06:31] <desrt> is there anywhere to go to order some more of those?
[06:32] <fabbione> desrt: only for people that donates G5's ;)
[06:32] <bddebian> heh
[06:32] <desrt> i still have the G5 for you sitting on my desk :)
[06:32] <fabbione> ehhe
[06:32] <desrt> don't suppose you'll be at guadec
[06:32] <bddebian> Hey, where's mine? :-)
[06:32] <fabbione> desrt: nope
[06:32] <ogra> fabbione, wasnt the inflation pushing it to dual G5s already ? 
[06:32] <desrt> bddebian; fabio is special
[06:32] <fabbione> ogra: nah..
[06:33] <fabbione> desrt: define "special" :P
[06:33] <desrt> uhm... the one person who gets a free g5 from me?
[06:33] <desrt> that's pretty special, i'd say
[06:33] <bddebian> :-)
[06:33] <fabbione> desrt: eheh
[06:33] <Keybuk> oh, sure, *he* gets a present
[06:33] <ogra> Keybuk, he makes the better pasta :)
[06:33] <Kamion> mdz: any idea why gtk might fail to update the slider until a mouseover event happens?
[06:33] <Kamion> that's why I assumed it was just a display problem
[06:33] <mdz> dholbach: did your example-content fix the typo in the book page?
[06:34] <mdz> dholbach: "destop"
[06:34] <mdz> Kamion: it may be just a display problem after all; it turns out that in my case the default value is absurd
[06:34] <dholbach> mdz: no, sorry - I got that bug report later :/
[06:34] <mdz> Kamion: (though nonzero)
[06:34] <mdz> dholbach: please fix
[06:34] <Keybuk> Kamion: surely if the slider is moving, the mouse is over it?
[06:35] <mdz> Keybuk: the default value for it isn't shown until you hover over it
[06:35] <mdz> it shows as 0 until then
[06:36] <Keybuk> how is the default value actually set?
[06:36] <desrt> followed by a short step to the right
[06:36] <mdz> Kamion: where's the code?  maybe one of our pygtk gurus can help
[06:36] <Kamion> Keybuk: .set_range()
[06:36] <Kamion> no, hang on
[06:37] <ogra> Kamion, mdz, sure thats not bug 22930 ?
[06:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 22930 in gtk "Mouse focus doesn't return until mouse is moved off button" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/22930
[06:37] <mdz> ogra: no, different problem
[06:37] <Kamion> I wonder if it's simply that I only set the range, not the value
[06:37] <ogra> (which we also face in the logout dialog heavily)
[06:37] <seb128> mdz: that focus issue just make the click action not working, it doesn't change the value of anything
[06:37] <Keybuk> g_signal_emit_by_name (G_OBJECT (adjustment), "changed");
[06:37] <Keybuk> is the C dance you have to do on it
[06:37] <seb128> ups
[06:37] <ogra> seb128, yep, my bad ...
[06:37] <seb128> s/mdz/ogra
[06:37] <Kamion> you're kidding?
[06:37] <seb128> mdz: sorry ;)
[06:38] <Kamion> I think I should try just doing .set_value(), and while I'm at it I can set it to the middle of the range by default rather than the bottom
[06:39] <infinity> mdz: Building on terranova.  Will upload the resulting binaries when I wake up.
[06:39] <Riddell> Kamion: could you start a kubuntu live fs build?
[06:39] <Kamion> Riddell: running
[06:39] <dholbach> mdz: uploading
[06:40] <Kamion> .set_value() is supposed to emit value-changed
[06:40] <fabbione> zakame: ping?
[06:40] <Keybuk> Kamion: you don't call set_value anywhere
[06:41] <Kamion> Keybuk: 17:38 < Kamion> I think I should try just doing .set_value(), and while I'm at it I can set it to the middle of the range by default rather than the bottom
[06:41] <Kamion> I do now ;-)
[06:41] <Keybuk> Kamion: heh
[06:42] <Kamion> ogra: bug 22930 bites ubiquity as well, but no, it's not that
[06:43] <desrt> wow.  manu marked my logout dialog UI flamefest bug as "fixed released"
[06:43] <desrt> that's an odd choice of words :)
[06:43] <mdz> Kamion: confirmed
[06:43] <mdz> Kamion: calling set_value fixes it
[06:44] <Kamion> self.new_size_scale.set_value(int(min_percent + 100) / 2)
[06:45] <Kamion> mdz: did you not get an error dialog telling you "Failed to create enough space for installation"?
[06:46] <mdz> Kamion: before I added the set_value, yes.  after, no.
[06:46] <mdz> May 23 17:30:15 <mdz>   Kamion: I click forward without touching anything, and it tells me it couldn't make enough space.  when I then adjust the slider, I find that it's set by default to an absurdly small value (the amount of slack space that Windows didn't partition).  I then increase it to a reasonable value, click Forward, and it loops. every time.
[06:46] <Kamion> it's a bug that it didn't send you back to autopartitioning properly, but we don't have time to fix that right, I suspect
[06:46] <Kamion> mdz: ah, I lost that in scrollback
[06:48] <pitti> dieman: you are aware that this isn't supported?
[06:48] <dieman> yes
[06:48] <dieman> it works, its not that bad
[06:49] <pitti> dieman: good to hear :) one case that definitively breaks is postgresql
[06:49] <dieman> im having more issues with upgrading from the scim work that i did locally months ago based on some debian packages
[06:49] <pitti> dieman: but would be interesting to hear about the results of upgrading a standard desktop install
[06:49] <mdz> Kamion: fixing the set_value thing makes this much less likely to be triggered
[06:49] <mdz> Kamion: this actually looks very much like the bug Chris encountered
[06:50] <dieman> pitti: only thing i notice so far is gnomemetting->ekiga doesn't work so well
[06:50] <mdz> Kamion: it seems sort of odd that the minimum value is set so low, though.  it looks like it's supposed to enforce that Ubuntu will actually fit in the space created, no?
[06:50] <dieman> pitti: have to force-remove gnomemeeting before a dist-upgrade
[06:50] <Kamion> it's meant to, yes
[06:51] <Kamion> we set the range to match whatever parted_server says the allowable resize range is
[06:51] <AlinuxOS> dieman, ekiga works great for me...
[06:51] <Kamion> oh
[06:51] <Kamion> we don't enforce 2GB clearance though
[06:52] <AlinuxOS> ekiga 2.0.1 works well as actual ekiga-cvs version.
[06:52] <dieman> AlinuxOS: the upgrade, rather
[06:52] <dieman> AlinuxOS: some files conflict in the hoary->dapper case
[06:52] <dieman> (its an unsupported case, but just mentioning)
[06:53] <AlinuxOS> dieman, ah...understand.
[06:53] <dieman> after i get the in-place procedure down i'll have to get fai manhandled into working how i want it to.
[06:53] <mdz> Kamion: we should
[06:54] <Keybuk> nobody seems to have done that one yet
[06:54] <dieman> heh
[06:54] <Kamion> it's actually a partman-auto bug, and affects the install CD too
[06:55] <mdz> Keybuk: I tested i386 and amd64 yesterday, but there seem to be new ones now
[06:56] <Riddell> mdz: can I upload this change to ktorrent?  it just adds our normal patch and line to generate a .pot file http://oculusaquilae.de/kubuntu/fixes-dapper/pot_generation.diff
[06:57] <mdz> Riddell: sure, why not
[06:57] <Keybuk> heh, either wget or the http server are busted
[06:57] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, I've talked with BPG Tech font author about some imperfections of his pack...he decided to collaborate with me(and our community) he is worrking on GNOME/KDE special/suitable font collection... restructurating horizontal and vertical spaces. So I'm verry happy.
[06:57] <Keybuk> one of them really doesn't like opening a 3GB file
[06:58] <ogra> likely the server
[06:58] <ogra> i wget'et a 5G file in dapper already
[06:58] <iwj> mdke: See mail re ubuntu-docs (uploaded and accepted, it seems).
[06:59] <Keybuk> yeah it's the server, it just disconnects :)
[07:00] <mdz> Kamion: so long as we're changing ubiquity, is it trivial to fix the progress messages (for 32gnome_power_manager and mkinitramfs)?
[07:01] <Keybuk> Znarl: you may want to look into that
[07:02] <Kamion> mdz: what's broken for 32gnome_power_manager?
[07:02] <mdz> Kamion: it displays "Running 32gnome_power_manager..."
[07:02] <Kamion> mdz: it does the same sort of thing for all the target-config hooks
[07:02] <mdz> but that one takes 10+ seconds to run; I don't even see the others
[07:02] <Kamion> I could strip numbers from the start, but anything more would take translation changes
[07:03] <mdz> never mind, it's just ugly
[07:03] <Kamion> I'll strip digits
[07:03] <mdz> anything more I can do to try to track this looping problem?  are you unable to reproduce it?
[07:03] <Znarl> Keybuk : Sorry, what is broken?
[07:03] <mdz> stripping the digits doesn't really help; don't bother
[07:03] <Kamion> ok
[07:04] <Keybuk> Znarl: wget http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/dvd/current/dapper-dvd-amd64.iso
[07:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: what do I have to do again to finish oem customization and trigger the oem user setup wizard?
[07:04] <Keybuk> Znarl: the server bails and disconnect
[07:04] <Keybuk> Znarl: rather than serve a 3GB file
[07:04] <Kamion> mdz: I don't think fixing the looping problem any further is going to be feasible
[07:04] <mdz> ok
[07:04] <Kamion> just the set_value
[07:05] <mdz> and fixing the range to be minimum 2.x gig is non-trivial?
[07:05] <mdz> that would make this impossible to trigger in the way I've done it
[07:06] <Znarl> Keybuk : Ah, boron - one of the cdimage machines, is running breezy apache.  
[07:06] <mdz> Kamion: seems like it should be straightforward if ubiquity already has knowledge of that value
[07:08] <Kamion> mdz: I'm in progress on that
[07:08] <Kamion> I'm fixing it in the right place, though, namely partman-auto
[07:10] <_ion> http://johan.kiviniemi.name/music/ion-schizophrenia-prev1.ogg
[07:17] <Kamion> mdz: fixing the mkinitramfs progress message should be trivial, though; I'll do that
[07:22] <Lure> Kamion: I know that LVM is no go for ubiquity, but is it safe to install another install on the system where there is already LVM version (using regular partitions)?
[07:22] <Kamion> Lure: I'm told it doesn't work right
[07:23] <Kamion> there's a bug open - it doesn't disable the existing logical volumes so the kernel sees the partitions as busy
[07:23] <Kamion> if you already have the partitions you need to install on created by some other means, or if you disable LVM by hand, it should work
[07:23] <Lure> Kamion: ok, but no corruption? Then I will try it now and report back...
[07:24] <Kamion> Lure: use absolute current ubiquity, >= 1.0.1
[07:24] <Kamion> Lure: and take backups
[07:24] <Lure> Kamion: current daily (Ubuntu) is fine?
[07:24] <Kamion> Lure: check with dpkg -l ubiquity, but should be
[07:24] <Lure> Kamion: I know - have got that lession...
[07:24] <Lure> ;-)
[07:25] <Kamion> I expect you'd want to use manual partitioning
[07:25] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/partman-auto-resize-bounds.diff
[07:25] <Lure> Kamion: yes, I always manually partition and this will be my first try of Ubuntu ubiquity (always tested Kubuntu only)
[07:25] <mdz> Kamion: I'll give it a go
[07:25] <Kamion> mdz: the extra bit added on over 2GB is to defend against rounding errors
[07:26] <Kamion> mdz: if you're applying it on the fly, it's in /lib/partman/automatically_partition/10resize_use_free/do_option
[07:26] <mvo_> mdz: permission to upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/gconf2_2.14.0-1ubuntu2.debdiff ? It fixes a issue seb128 discovered during the breezy->dapper upgrade
[07:26] <mdz> Kamion: the install is larger than 2GB anyway
[07:26] <Kamion> mdz: not here it's not
[07:26] <mdz> Kamion: at peak, with all langpacks from the CD?
[07:26] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[07:26] <Kamion> mdz: I just did a successful install where fdisk reported 1851749 1K-blocks
[07:27] <Kamion> I imagine langpacks will cause it to vary a bit, but not that much
[07:27] <mdz> df reported 2.0G for me
[07:27] <mdz> during the install
[07:28] <mdz> mvo_: sure
[07:28] <Kamion> 1.9G here
[07:28] <Kamion> I will check that it isn't just missing ENOSPC though
[07:29] <Kamion> but the copying is all done in python, so it would raise an exception
[07:30] <mdz> Kamion: I'll do a 2.0G install as part of this test to check
[07:30] <mdz> Kamion: or you're saying that's what you do?
[07:30] <Kamion> just shove the resize slider up to maximum ...
[07:30] <Kamion> that's what I'm doing
[07:31] <dholbach> mdz: ok to upload ubuntu-artwork for another fix?
[07:32] <mdz> dholbach: what is it?
[07:32] <dholbach> bug 34521
[07:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34521 in ubuntu-artwork "network monitor's icon have too much unused space" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34521
[07:33] <dholbach> i can bundle that with the next upload, if you want
[07:33] <Kamion> mdz: oh, the figure I quoted was df, not fdisk; I think df was leaving out blocks reserved for root
[07:33] <LaserJock> hmm, is evince going to be replaced by evince-gtk in ubuntu-desktop?
[07:33] <mdz> dholbach: you'll have to do more icon uploads anyway, so might as well wait
[07:33] <dholbach> ok
[07:33] <ogra> LaserJock, evince-gtk is a xubuntu mutation
[07:34] <Kamion> LaserJock: no
[07:35] <LaserJock> hmm, my xubuntu-desktop dist-upgrade wants to remove evince and ubuntu-desktop
[07:35] <Kamion> ubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-desktop are not currently coinstallable then
[07:35] <LaserJock> ok, :/
[07:36] <LaserJock> I just wondered if that was intentional
[07:36] <ogra> hmm, thats indeed not nice
[07:36] <sladen> could evince-gtk provide evince ?
[07:36] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, I applied your patch, but the minimum is still 61.0M
[07:36] <Kamion> sladen: I don't want evince-gtk to be selected by mistake
[07:36] <ogra> many ltsp users with low end machines want to use xfce on edubuntu for the clients
[07:36] <Kamion> ogra: so they can uninstall {ed,}ubuntu-desktop. deal.
[07:37] <dieman> or just use the task names instead
[07:37] <ogra> Kamion, yes :(
[07:37] <dieman> with aptitude
[07:37] <Kamion> mdz: that's the minimum for the partition you're resizing, not for the free space created
[07:37] <Kamion> the UI is not very clear, I'm afraid
[07:37] <mdz> Kamion: that partition has about 2G worth of Windows XP on it
[07:37] <ogra> dieman, the usual edubuntu user is a teacher and happy if he understands synaptic ;)
[07:37] <mdz> so that isn't right either
[07:37] <dieman> ie: aptitude install "~t^ubuntu-desktop" "~t^xubuntu-desktop" evince-
[07:37] <dieman> ogra: yah, i know ;)
[07:37] <ogra> dieman, not terminals :)
[07:37] <Kamion> mdz: oh, my patch will do nothing about that; that's weird
[07:37] <ogra> s/not/no/
[07:38] <mdz> Kamion: that seems extremely backwards though
[07:38] <mdz> it says "New partition size"
[07:38] <mdz> not "existing partition size"
[07:38] <Kamion> I know
[07:38] <Kamion> it means new size for the partition being resized
[07:38] <Kamion> I know it's unclear, but it's so late
[07:38] <mdz> this disk has only one partition
[07:39] <Kamion> mdz: what does 'ntfsresize -f -i /dev/hda1' (or whatever) say, specifically the "You might resize at" line?
[07:39] <Kamion> oh
[07:39] <mdz> 3232MB
[07:39] <Kamion> resize_use_free has a devfs assumption
[07:41] <ogra> infinity, still around ?
[07:41] <Kamion> get_ntfs_resize_range that is
[07:41] <ogra> Kamion, can you trigger a livefs build for edubuntu ?
[07:42] <mdz> indeed
[07:42] <Kamion> ogra: running
[07:42] <Kamion> mdz: working on it
[07:42] <ogra> Kamion, thanks
[07:43] <mdz> Kamion: not critical if it isn't safe
[07:43] <Kamion> it should be straightforward, PARTITION_INFO gives the path
[07:45] <Kamion> oh, there's a comment in the file saying why that won't work ... I'll special-case
[07:48] <mdz> yay, the kernel built
[07:48] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/partman-partitioning-ntfs-resize.diff
[07:48] <Kamion> mdz: can you try that? applies to /lib/partman/resize.sh
[07:49] <Kamion> I can get an NTFS partition here but it will take another Windows installation
[07:49] <Kamion> need to go and do something about dinner now
[07:49] <mdke> iwj: thanks
[07:50] <lemsx1> i noticed that in ntp you guys fix a bug that prevented the interface to be fully up on reboot
[07:50] <lemsx1> Ignore errors from ntpdate, otherwise the interface might not come fully up.
[07:50] <lemsx1> yet 2 of my test dapper installations do just that... and i purged ntp. same thing
[07:50] <mdz> Kamion: in addition to the other patch, right?
[07:50] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[07:51] <Kamion> I've uploaded the other patch now; my tests seemed fine
[07:51] <lemsx1> doing: ifconfig eth0 up and running dhclient3 by hand does the trick
[07:51] <lemsx1> but i added pre-up to interfaces and now it always works
[07:51] <lemsx1> # The primary network interface
[07:51] <lemsx1> auto eth0
[07:51] <lemsx1> iface eth0 inet dhcp
[07:51] <lemsx1>         pre-up ifconfig eth0 up
[07:52] <lemsx1> these problems didn't happen on Breezy
[07:52] <Keybuk> lemsx1: please file a bug
[07:53] <lemsx1> Keybuk: ok. i'll research that now. though i don't know what it should apply to
[07:53] <Keybuk> lemsx1: "ntp" seems a good guess
[07:53] <lemsx1> Keybuk: or netbase?
[07:53] <Keybuk> lemsx1: netbase isn't doing anything here
[07:53] <mdz> Kamion: at first blush, I get the same behaviour. will check into it.
[07:53] <Keybuk> lemsx1: dhcp3 perhaps
[07:53] <lemsx1> Keybuk: netbase: /etc/init.d/networking
[07:54] <Keybuk> lemsx1: that script does nothing on most people's machines
[07:54] <Kamion> mdz: set -x in that function to see what we're passing to ntfsresize would be useful
[07:54] <infinity> ogra: Yes, I'm back, couldn't sleep.  What's up?
[07:54] <mdz> Kamion: shouldn't matter that I'm running ubiquity for the second time in this session, right?
[07:54] <lemsx1> Keybuk: are you sure? it seems to be calling ifup -a
[07:54] <Keybuk> lemsx1: yes, I'm sure
[07:54] <ogra> infinity, already done, i didnt want to bother busy Kamion with livefs builds
[07:55] <lemsx1> Keybuk: so, dhcp3 should make sure the interface is fully up before running the client bound to it?
[07:55] <Keybuk> lemsx1: please, just file a bug and we'll look into it when edgy opens
[07:55] <lemsx1> Keybuk: understood
[07:56] <Kamion> mdz: no
[07:56] <mdz> Kamion: backupdev=/var/lib/partman/backup/
[07:56] <mdz> is that right?
[07:57] <mdz> that's causing the entire if block to be skipped
[07:58] <Kamion> hmm, I may have been barking up the wrong tree then; if there's no backup devices directory then that block doesn't matter
[07:59] <Kamion> but it should be there, it's created by init.d/backup
[07:59] <mdz> something weird is happening
[07:59] <tsume> huh
[07:59] <Kamion> oh, $dev is empty
[07:59] <mdz> yes
[07:59] <mdz> all of the args are
[07:59] <tsume> is anyone else getting permission denied from anoncvs co on savannah?
[08:00] <Keybuk> tsume: incredibly off topic for here
[08:00] <tsume> Keybuk: this is a channel with tons of developers, not users which don't know how to use CVS
[08:00] <Kamion> oh, partman madness
[08:00] <mdz> Kamion: I have no idea how this is supposed to work
[08:01] <mdz> should that be $1 or something?
[08:01] <Kamion> mdz: I have to sort out dinner for the child here, but I know roughly what to do; will be back soon
[08:01] <Keybuk> tsume: no, this is a channel for co-ordinating Ubuntu development... which is right now in release preperation; and we don't need savannah anoncvs to do that;  if you've having problems, taking it to their support forum
[08:01] <tsume> Keybuk: though I should ask in ##freebsd since they(and I) hack on code casually
[08:01] <jcole> tsume: you're in the wrong room bud
[08:02] <lemsx1> bug 46190
[08:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46190 in ntp "network interface not fully up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46190
[08:02] <tsume> while I'm here though :) What in the worls does debian/or ubuntu do to grub? :P
[08:02] <mdz> tsume: that's enough
[08:03] <ogra> fabbione, ^^^
[08:03] <tsume> mdz: could you please include lilo with the installcd?
[08:03] <Kamion> tsume: we do, on the alternate install CD.
[08:03] <mdz> tsume: it is there, and has been since the first release.  please stop making noise in this channel.
[08:05] <Kamion> mdz: it's a difference between busybox sh and bash in the handling of local variables, triggered by some slightly psychopathic partman code; easy to work around
[08:05] <fabbione> ogra: ?
[08:05] <ogra> fabbione, he's calmed now, all fine it seems
[08:06] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/partman-partitioning-ntfs-resize.diff updated
[08:09] <dAndy> Kamion: i added the kickstart file i used for the ftp install to the bug, we are not using any proxy, very weird
[08:10] <mdz> Kamion: testing
[08:11] <mdz> Kamion: works
[08:11] <mdz> I get a range of 3-6G
[08:11] <tsume> mdz: hmm
[08:11] <tsume> mdz: do you know anyone in the debian or ubuntu community who works on grub?
[08:12] <fabbione> tsume: zul does sometimes
[08:12] <mdz> tsume: like the others here, I am very busy preparing the release and do not have time to chat
[08:12] <tsume> mdz: I don't either :)
[08:12] <tsume> mdz: I'm just trying to track down a hardware problem with grub + whatever mb is in this laptop.
[08:13] <Keybuk> tsume: please do so on #ubuntu
[08:13] <fabbione> tsume: i did answer you. please now move on
[08:13] <tsume> Keybuk: they are users, not developers
[08:13] <fabbione> tsume: you had an answer. drive trough.
[08:15] <tsume> Keybuk: and anyway, I've beatten the grub to death 100 million times over. I asked a simple question. And anyway, even if you kick, ban, etc. I can simply evade. so best  to just give me a simple one word answer "yes or no" and I'll be on my way. Its a grub memory loading problem. I'm just trying to find a knowledgable bootloader person.
[08:15] <Keybuk> bored, now
[08:15] <AlinuxOS> :)
[08:15] <Kamion> mdz: hooray. will upload
[08:16] <ogra> fabbione, Keybuk, thanks
[08:16] <mdke> Znarl: around?
[08:17] <mdz> Kamion: alt CD overflow is fixed in the current build, yes?
[08:18] <mdz> hmm, no, needs a new build
[08:18] <wasabi> Great. Tor.
[08:18] <yupi> hey, this is tsume. You're all dumb assholes
[08:18] <yupi> :)
[08:18] <tseng> -|- 4 - #mono: ban *!*@*tsumelabs.com [by  migHome!~miguel@c-24-218-111-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net, 5570995 secs ago] 
[08:19] <tseng> fyi
[08:19] <yupi> sstill using ubuntu on my network though :P
[08:19] <Seveas> fabbione, tor/session/*
[08:19] <mdz> Kamion: with the slider set to max, the low disk space warning just came up and said 99%
[08:19] <fabbione> Seveas: can you report it to freenode staff please?
[08:19] <mdz> er
[08:20] <fabbione> Seveas: and get a kline please
[08:20] <iwj> Phew.  Hopefully that'll be the last firefox before the dapper release.
[08:20] <Seveas> fabbione, they're not so generous with k-lines
[08:20] <mdz> Kamion: then I got "Installation complete" prematurely, the copy didn't even finish and none of the following steps were run
[08:20] <Kamion> mdz: bug 46160
[08:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46160 in ubiquity "base-installer/kernel/linux/link_in_boot missing from templates" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46160
[08:20] <Kamion> er, no
[08:20] <Kamion> (sorry, wrong bug)
[08:20] <Kamion> mdz: that's the install.py crash handling fixed in ubiquity 1.0.3 surely
[08:21] <fabbione> Seveas: well report him as abuser or whatever
[08:21] <mdz> Kamion: at any rate, it seems clear that the crash was because it ran out of disk space
[08:21] <Kamion> mdz: do you want me to add 200MB to those limits then?
[08:21] <Kamion> seems like it should do
[08:21] <mdz> Kamion: I think that ought to be suffiicent, yes
[08:21] <riii> hi this is tsume. Nice try. whatever :)
[08:23] <fabbione> Keybuk: he is at the best a script kiddy with 2/3 sheells around
[08:23] <tseng> mode +r might help for the time being
[08:23] <fabbione> Keybuk: and he already burned 3 of them
[08:23] <Keybuk> tseng: what does that one do?
[08:23] <wasabi> Hhe.
[08:23] <gomen> hi this is tsume. :) whatever :)
[08:23] <infinity> gomen: Please respect the fact that we're trying to release a product (one that you use, apparently) in just over a week.  I can't ask you to stop acting like a child, but please stop wasting OUR time with your games.
[08:23] <fabbione> Keybuk: now he will remove reverse
[08:23] <tseng> only registered users can join
[08:23] <wasabi> scriptkiddies. =(
[08:24] <tseng> Keybuk: ^
[08:24] <wasabi> How do I add myself to that ubuntu/member/thing?
[08:24] <gomen> infinity: okay
[08:24] <tseng> wasabi: talk to Seveas 
[08:24] <gomen> infinity: then unban me and I'll sit silent
[08:24] <fabbione> gomen: specially because you are so busy acting like a child that you did not even notice that i did answer your question
[08:24] <fabbione> way before you got banned
[08:25] <gomen> infinity: I'll even help, but I just don't expect to be treated mean. I like simple answers, yes, no, or I don't know.
[08:25] <fabbione> gomen: YOU GOT THAT ANSWER
[08:26] <fabbione> gomen: possible you can't even read your scrollback?
[08:26] <gomen> fabbione: privmsg please and I'll explain :)
[08:26] <Kamion> gomen: I doubt anyone will waste their time helping you any more anyway.
[08:26] <_ion> He's just teasing you.
[08:26] <fabbione> gomen: no
[08:26] <dieman> grats to whoever banished ld_preload from openoffice on amd64
[08:27] <gomen> fabbione: I liked your answer, and the others. except Kamion's, who I've ran in to in the past, giving me a bad attitude answer instead of my wanted short answer.
[08:27] <Kamion> oh I feel such pain
[08:27] <Keybuk> Kamion: you bad, bad man
[08:27] <tseng> thats Keybuk.
[08:27] <tseng> *thanks
[08:27] <tseng> I had enough of this guy on GIMPnet
[08:28] <tseng> we'll want to drop that in 10-15 minutes
[08:28] <Keybuk> yup
[08:28] <Keybuk> just long enough for him to get bored
[08:28] <fabbione> imho we could just switch to +m for release time
[08:28] <fabbione> he might be very well registered..
[08:28] <tseng> not 6 times
[08:29] <fabbione> tseng: you wish :)
[08:29] <Seveas> tseng, even the bots are registering nowadays
[08:29] <wasabi> Seveas: How do I get added to that ubuntu/member/thingy? :)
[08:30] <Seveas> wasabi, by telling me your real launchpad ID 
[08:30] <wasabi> ahh! "wasabi"
[08:30] <wasabi> https://launchpad.net/people/wasabi
[08:30] <ogra> gah, my livefs build clashed with dia
[08:30] <Seveas> ok, next time I see lilo I'll have him set your cloak
[08:31] <wasabi> neato.
[08:35] <infinity> mdz: I'm hacking on weddell right now, so if you could refrain from doing any livefs builds on ia64 (somehow, I doubt you want any anyway), that would be cool.
[08:44] <LaserJock> iwj: ping?
[08:46] <janimo> mvo_: hi
[08:47] <mvo_> hello janimo
[08:47] <janimo> mvo_: since we now have packages in xubuntu-desktop that conflict with ones in ubuntu-desktop
[08:48] <janimo> people can have difficulties upgrading
[08:48] <Riddell> Kamion: important patch for kde ubiquity http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/ubiquity.diff
[08:48] <janimo> bug 46191
[08:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46191 in xubuntu-system-tools "xubuntu-system-tools conflicts with gnome-system-tools" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46191
[08:48] <janimo> mvo_: can you see a clean nonitrusive solution?
[08:48] <Kamion> Riddell: is it in your branch?
[08:48] <Riddell> Kamion: no
[08:49] <Kamion> Riddell: ok; can you provide a changelog entry?
[08:49] <Kamion> Riddell: er also surely you should have an else branch there
[08:49] <Kamion> like return None or something
[08:49] <Riddell> it works fine as it is
[08:50] <Riddell>  * fix crash in country selector when nothing is pre-set
[08:50] <Kamion> I'd like to add else: return None
[08:50] <Kamion> just for clarity
[08:50] <Riddell> tesing
[08:50] <Riddell> testing
[08:51] <Kamion> (that's what gtkui doe)
[08:51] <Kamion> s
[08:51] <mdke> does anyone know what setup the wikis on palmer use? mod_python/cgi/fastcgi?
[08:52] <janimo> mvo_: sorry, did you write anything after me pasting the bug? I may have hit a ctrl-L too early
[08:53] <Riddell> Kamion: yes, thatt is fine
[08:53] <Riddell> -win 35
[08:53] <Riddell> doh, I knew I shouldn have tested a spanish keyboard
[08:53] <Kamion> heh
[08:53] <Kamion> ok, uploading nowish
[09:02] <janimo> will there be separate announcements for the derivatives for RC?
[09:06] <mvo_> janimo: no, I have not (was distracted)
[09:06] <janimo> god
[09:06] <janimo> good
[09:07] <mvo_> janimo: hm, a pretty anoying problem :/
[09:08] <Kamion> WARNING: Loop detected: /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-powerpc/volatile/new_ath_hal.ko which needs new_ath_hal.ko again!
[09:08] <Kamion> interesting
[09:09] <mdz> fun
[09:09] <Kamion> spotted while reading through the syslog attached to bug 46160
[09:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46160 in ubiquity "base-installer/kernel/linux/link_in_boot missing from templates" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46160
[09:09] <Kamion> (my life is so exciting)
[09:10] <Kamion> mjg59: looks like a madwifi-ng thing?
[09:10] <Kamion> WARNING: Module /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-powerpc/volatile/new_ath_hal.ko ignored, due to loop
[09:10] <Kamion> WARNING: Module /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-powerpc/madwifi-ng/new_ath_rate_sample.ko ignored, due to loop
[09:10] <Kamion> WARNING: Module /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-powerpc/madwifi-ng/new_ath_pci.ko ignored, due to loop
[09:10] <Kamion> (rest of relevant chunk of log)
[09:11] <BenC> Kamion: yeah, I show the same thing on my ppc
[09:11] <BenC> I only have new_ath_hal.ko and ath_hal.ko on my system though
[09:12] <BenC> nm, I do have the others, but depmod isn't reporting any problems with them
[09:12] <janimo> mdke, I see that in docteam svn the xubuntu guide while copied in language dirs is not really translated.
[09:12] <mdke> janimo: it has only been in rosetta for a few days
[09:12] <janimo> do I upload like this? Is it needed for rosetta?
[09:13] <Kamion> it happens while doing dpkg-reconfigure -fnoninteractive linux-image-2.6.15-23-powerpc
[09:13] <janimo> mdke: yes, but does an upload help if it happens now than say in 3 days?
[09:13] <mdke> janimo: I'm not adding new translations anymore. Only post-release
[09:13] <janimo> I got the impression that something may block on it
[09:14] <janimo> mdke, and existing translations remain in current sate?
[09:14] <janimo> state
[09:14] <mdke> janimo: I think you should do an upload with what we have so that the structure is in place for post-release updates
[09:14] <janimo> in that case I can upload whenever
[09:14] <janimo> ok
[09:14] <mdke> but it should be soon, because the freeze for them was a week ago
[09:14] <janimo> yup
[09:15] <mdke> janimo: I'll continue to email you when I add updated translations to our repository post-release
[09:15] <janimo> ok, although I assume they will go in via upadated langiage packs not by my uploading ?
[09:15] <mdke> janimo: no, they'll need -updates of xubuntu-docs
[09:15] <janimo> ok then
[09:16] <infinity> 21:57 <doko> and could you pester Riddell and Mithrandir about scim support for OOo on amd64?
[09:16] <infinity> Mithrandir / Riddell : Do you know what that's about?
[09:16] <mdke> bbl
[09:16] <Kamion> mdz: I believe all my installer changes from today are in now, pending builds
[09:16] <mdz> Kamion: was just reading them
[09:16] <infinity> Mithrandir / Riddell : I'm about to do an OOo-amd64 upload, but doko pinged me with that after asking me to do the upload.
[09:17] <mdz> Kamion: can we cross off the preseeding fix or does that need confirmation in a real build?
[09:17] <Kamion> mdz: oh, needs confirmation after d-i has built, really
[09:18] <Kamion> easy to test with the gfxboot menus
[09:18] <mdz> Kamion: just did an alternate build; looks like the sizes are OK now
[09:18] <Mithrandir> infinity: no idea.
[09:19] <infinity> Mithrandir: Right then.  I'll just do this upload as-is, then.
[09:19] <bddebian> infinity: When you get a chance can you please clear the dep-wait on libkwiki-perl now that libspoon-perl has hit?
[09:19] <infinity> Well, when it's done downloading all the crap...
[09:19] <infinity> bddebian: It'll auto-clear.
[09:19] <bddebian> Hmm, OK, thx
[09:20] <Kamion>    * Replace 6.04 with 60.6 in generic/libs/generic.ent.
[09:20] <ivoks> :)
[09:20] <Kamion> iwj: I'm assuming that typo was unique to the changelog?
[09:20] <bddebian> doh
[09:20] <Keybuk> it's typos like that where you get a scared shiver to think there may *be* a 60.6 one day
[09:21] <ogra> Keybuk, scared ?
[09:21] <Keybuk> ogra: it's like that one day it'll be May 20060
[09:21] <ogra> that gives me a warm feeling :)
[09:21] <Kamion> 2060 surely
[09:21] <ryang> oh please, even small animals are messy. http://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p51002020xi.jpg
[09:21] <ogra> yeah
[09:22] <Kamion> I don't think I can do this for another 54 years
[09:22] <Keybuk> uh, yeah, typo :)
[09:22] <ogra> lol
[09:22] <Keybuk> I'll be 80 in 2060
[09:22] <ogra> i'll be dead
[09:22] <ogra> but still :)
[09:22] <ivoks> nice to see you relaxed, guys :)
[09:27] <mdz> dholbach: around?
[09:27] <Kamion> infinity: any idea why firefox 1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.3-0ubuntu3 doesn't seem to have started building yet?
[09:28] <dholbach> mdz: yes
[09:28] <Kamion> infinity: oh, never mind, it took its sweet time to publish for some reason
[09:29] <mdz> dholbach: I seem to recall that when I first looked at the book, it had an ubuntu logo in the heading
[09:29] <mdz> dholbach: now it just has an empty brown band
[09:29] <dholbach> mdz: i'll look at it
[09:29] <wasabi> Surely somebody sells plain Ubuntu logo stickers without text.
[09:29] <Kamion> ... because I didn't take account of daylight savings. go me.
[09:31] <Keybuk> wasabi: I'm not sure, most people have been put off by Jane's Pantone Facism
[09:35] <dieman> bwahaha
[09:35] <dieman> pantone facism
[09:35] <mdz> wasabi: the pussycat dolls might
[09:36] <wasabi> Wow. That made pretty much no sense.
[09:36] <Keybuk> wasabi: they stole our logo
[09:36] <wasabi> That what who?
[09:37] <Keybuk> http://www.pcdmusiclounge.com/Home.do
[09:37] <wasabi> Hahah they totally did.
[09:38] <ryang> how off-topic
[09:38] <bddebian> Sue, sue!!! :)
[09:39] <ogra> ryang, right, that belongs to #ubuntu-art :)
[09:39] <ryang> OculusAquilae, exactly :)
[09:39] <ryang> whoops :(
[09:39] <OculusAquilae> :)
[09:39] <ryang> OculusAquilae, sorry. meant ogra :)
[09:39] <ogra> :)
[09:39] <OculusAquilae> np :)
[09:41] <mdz> Riddell: how are your CD sizes?
[09:41] <omeg> It's kind of funny when someone tries to tell you that Windows == Unix because they both have a kernel.
[09:41] <mdz> Riddell: and any further word on the book chapter?
[09:41] <dholbach> mdz: want me to upload now?
[09:41] <mdz> dholbach: you found the trouble?
[09:41] <dieman> Keybuk: wow, they completely stole th elogo
[09:41] <dholbach> mdz: I nicked the logo from ubuntu-docs :)
[09:42] <ryang> I thank whoever fixed ruby :)
[09:42] <mdz> dholbach: what's the purpose of the 'Other' placeholder?
[09:42] <dholbach> mdz: the missing kubuntu chapter
[09:43] <infinity> Kamion: All those python tracebacks in the d-i build log are expected, right?
[09:44] <Kamion> infinity: ...
[09:44] <Kamion> not AS SUCH
[09:44] <infinity> Kamion: help-to-gfxboot barfing on missing files...
[09:45] <Kamion> buggeration
[09:45] <Kamion> it's got a set -e in there, why isn't it failing properly damnit?
[09:45] <Kamion> oh, pipelines
[09:46] <Kamion> lalala I hate the shell some days
[09:46] <Keybuk> the thing to remember when doing any programming in shell is ...
[09:46] <Keybuk> you're using the wrong language
[09:46] <Keybuk> once you've got that in your mind, it all makes sense
[09:46] <Keybuk> :p
[09:46] <mdz> dholbach: anyway, yes, OK to upload if you're happy
[09:47] <infinity> Kamion: Well, just glad I happened to be watching the log...
[09:47] <dholbach> mdz: if you want me to strip the Other link and just keep some padding in, that's fine too
[09:47] <mdz> dholbach: since we may need to release without it, it may be better to remove it for now. it doesn't serve any purpose; if we get the chapter we need to update the package anyway
[09:48] <dholbach> ok
[09:49] <dholbach> i'll keep the padding in until we either get the kubuntu chapter or decide to ship without it
[09:50] <Lure> Kamion: is on_back_clicked crash known (ubiquity 1.0.2) - I got it after clicking Cacnel on confirm partitioning?
[09:51] <Kamion> Lure: no, don't think so
[09:51] <Kamion> Lure: but would need to see the trace
[09:52] <Lure> will report it
[09:52] <omeg> Hehe, someone is trying to convince me that Windows is "almost indistinguishable from Unix".
[09:52] <Kamion> thanks
[09:52] <Lure> gtkui.py,  line 1032, NoneType on attribute stdin
[09:54] <omeg> I see.
[09:55] <Kamion> Lure: oh, I need the full /var/log/installer/syslog for that
[09:55] <Kamion> gparted is probably crashing
[09:55] <Kamion> though not certain
[09:55] <Lure> will collect everything and report now
[09:59] <Kamion> it may just be too late to fix now though
[10:04] <Lure> Kamion: bug 46211 if you need anything more, let me know
[10:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46211 in ubiquity "crash on Cancel + Back on partitioning" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46211
[10:06] <Kamion> Lure: hmm, inconclusive. if you can reproduce it by following the exact same steps except by starting the installer with 'UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1 sudo ubiquity', then the syslog might be more helpful
[10:06] <Lure> Kamion: will do
[10:06] <Kamion> thanks
[10:10] <Lure> Kamion: reproduced with debug
[10:34] <Lure> Kamion: next try when I have selected OK also crashed - bug 46215
[10:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46215 in ubiquity "crash on manual parititioning on disk with existing LVM partitions" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46215
[10:38] <mdke> Znarl: unping
[10:42] <dholbach> good night
[10:42] <bddebian> gnight dholbach
[10:42] <Kamion> Lure: ok, you'll have to use the alternate install CD on such systems for dapper, I'm afraid; but thanks for testing, I'll try to make it work early edgy
[10:46] <Lure> Kamion: we should just document that users should deactivate LVM VG before running ubiquity - this works (installer is just copying files)
[10:46] <Lure> Kamion: like know issue and workaround
[10:47] <Kamion> Lure: sounds like reasonable release notes fodder
[10:48] <Kamion> mdke: is the above ^-- something the doc team can incorporate? I'm not sure where release notes are being maintained at the moment, or by whom
[10:48] <Burgwork> Kamion, nor do we
[10:48] <mdke> Kamion: a dual job between you guys and mgalvin 
[10:48] <Kamion> oh
[10:48] <mdke> (i think)
[10:49] <mgalvin> DapperReleaseNotes has some stuff on it
[10:50] <mgalvin> (not done yet but WIP)
[10:57] <mgalvin> Kamion, Lure: please feel free to add to it, i will not have time to work on it myself again until the weekend anyway
[10:58] <Lure> mgalvin: ok, I can write something and Kamion will the decide if that makes sense to include or not
[10:58] <mgalvin> k cool
[10:59] <Burgwork> Seveas, are you around?
[11:00] <mdke> yeah, Seveas, ping x 2
[11:00] <mdke> (unrelated)
[11:01] <Burgwork> you know, we might need to plan for a "Seveas gets hit by bus"-size event
[11:01] <Seveas> lol
[11:01] <Seveas> please take a number 
[11:02] <Burgwork> Seveas, can you talk with HedgeMage and give the ok for me to take ownership of #ubuntu-ca ? the current contact is awol
[11:02] <Seveas> who is current contact?
[11:02] <mdke> Burgwork: you can use #ubuntu-locoteams
[11:04] <Burgwork> mdke, hmm, didn't even know that channel existed
[11:16] <Lure> sladen: around?
[11:18] <kent> Seveas: How come Sweden is not on this list? We have an active community..   http://www.ubuntu.com/support/supportoptions/local
[11:18] <Seveas> kent, e-mail henrik@ubuntu.com
[11:19] <mdke> kent: because that list is incomplete. Mail the links to loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com and I'll add them
[11:19] <mdke> no, henrik is a busy guy
[11:19] <mdke> :)
[11:19] <kent> mdke: Seveas   loco-contacts@l.u.c then and not henrik?
[11:20] <Seveas> mdke, ah, I thought henrik was webmaster and only he could edit that :) 
[11:20] <mdke> kent: yeah. I am going to put some time aside to sync that page from the LoCoTeamList page on the wiki
[11:21] <kent> mdke: will mail the relevant information in a min then. thanks!
[11:21] <mdke> Seveas: henrik is webmaster yeah, but it's a wiki. A few people can edit it.
[11:22] <mdke> kent: thanks
[11:22] <Kamion> Lure: added to a new "Known Issues" section on DapperReleaseNotes
[11:22] <Kamion> that page needs a good bit of love though
[11:23] <Lure> Kamion: great
[11:24] <Lure> Kamion: should we reference actual bug# from RN for easier tracking?
[11:25] <Kamion> sure, go ahead
[11:27] <Lure> Kamion: I think we can mark bug 43828 as duplicate of bug 43453
[11:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43828 in ubiquity "Kubuntu 6.06 Flight 7 installer crashes while partitioning" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43828
[11:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43453 in ubiquity "live cd partitioner doesn't understand lvm properly" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43453
[12:42] <jdub> when i was in .za
[12:43] <jdub> i connected my lappy to the projector
[12:43] <jdub> restarted X
[12:43] <jdub> and it automagically started in 1024x768
[12:43] <jdub> it made me happy
[12:44] <mjg59> Blind luck
[12:44] <mjg59> (sadly)
[12:44] <jdub> yeah
[12:44] <Burgwork> jdub, you had a far different experience then I did last time
[12:45] <jdub> i tried not to believe it happened
[12:45] <jdub> so i would not be disappointed next time
[12:45] <imbrandon_> heh
[12:45] <mjg59> Now you've told us
[12:45] <mjg59> So it won't
[12:45] <jdub> i'm doing another talk this afternoon
[12:45] <jdub> so i'll give you an update on the fantasy automagic
[12:46] <mjg59> But xrandr ought to basically work
[12:46] <jdub> oh yes, it works very well
[12:46] <mjg59> Plug in, display resolution it down to the right res, hit the display hotkey
[12:46] <mjg59> xrandr is a very small part of the future
[12:46] <mjg59> RH are working on bringing us the rest of it
[12:46] <jdub> ajax is working on x autoconfig?
[12:46] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: that's aiglx? 
[12:46] <mjg59> No
[12:47] <mjg59> Uh
[12:47] <mjg59> jdub: Yes
[12:47] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: No
[12:47] <Burgwork> daniel stone is working on input hotplug apparently
[12:47] <mjg59> jdub: That's his job
[12:47] <jdub> aiglx is just bringing us the past
[12:47] <mjg59> aiglx brings us to the technological level of Vista and MacOS
[12:47] <HiddenWolf> jdub: uh, ok. :)
[12:47] <jdub> mjg59: then why am i seeing him committing to metacity sex foo?
[12:47] <jdub> he is a bad person
[12:47] <mjg59> X autoconfig stuff brings us to the technological level of Win 98
[12:47] <mjg59> jdub: Because X autoconfig with no sex foo makes people sad
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: well, I installed a windows recently, and had to download a 38mb driver package to get rid of visible redrawing of the screen. I'd say that X/Linux is already ahead in some ways.
[12:49] <jdub> that illustrates the desperate plight of 'some'
[12:49] <HiddenWolf> Oh, that driver utility required the .NET stack too. :)
[12:52] <jdub> ugh, i really need to find something saner than mgp to do my talks with
[12:52] <jdub> unfortunately, impress is not saner
[12:52] <Burgwork> jdub, I used pointless last time, but it is not great
[12:52] <Chipzz> jdub: sex foo? :P
[12:53] <jdub> Chipzz: metacity/libcm effects
[12:53] <Kamion> Lure: I think there may be multiple different bugs in LVM support (or lack thereof), so I think I'd prefer to keep them separate until I understand them all a bit better, rather than having one giant "LVM is broken" bug :-)
[12:54] <Chipzz> libcm?
[12:54] <jdub> the compositing manager innards that metacity uses (in spiftacity mode)
[12:54] <Lure> Kamion: makes sense - will be easier for you when it comes to fixing them
[12:54] <Kamion> right
[12:54] <jdub> fabbione: ping (unlikely, payload: adaptec scsi in dapper)
[12:54] <Chipzz> oh, right :)
[12:55] <Lure> Kamion: should we reference all LVM bugs from RN (as it looks from my tests we solve most if not all of them with workaround)?
[12:57] <Kamion> Lure: may not be actually terribly helpful to users; I'd reference the clearest one or two
[12:57] <Lure> Kamion: ok
[12:58] <jdub> Kamion: has the dapper-desktop-* name change happened?
[12:59] <Kamion> jdub: yes
[12:59] <jdub> thanks
[12:59] <Kamion> jdub: (see ubuntu-devel-announce@)
[12:59] <jdub> mmm, saw that, wasn't sure it happened yet
[01:00] <Kamion> I didn't send the mail until I'd made/tested the code change - although I hadn't done all the rebuilds yet then
[01:06] <Kamion> infinity: BTW, my plan is to let this round of livefs/CD cron jobs happen, then disable the CD cron jobs and start doing stuff manually. You might want to disable the livefs cron jobs after they happen and when you're next awake.
[01:07] <jdub> Kamion: oh, presence of .OVERSIZED files mean the images are oversize?
[01:07] <Kamion> jdub: yes; in the case of Ubuntu daily-live that'll go away with the next rebuild, I hope
[01:08] <Kamion> it only appeared because I did a build with the new improved ship-live but forgot to rebuild ubuntu-meta to get rid of some language packs
[01:08] <jdub> Kamion: are yesterday's builds ok for testing?
[01:08] <mdke> my "ssh text in human icons is too small to read" bug has been dramatically fixed by the presence of the new hotness "icons are now half the size of the screen" bug 
[01:08] <Kamion> jdub: (new improved ship-live> build-essential/linux-headers as extra installable packages in an archive on the live CD)
[01:08] <jdub> 20060522
[01:08] <Kamion> jdub: no
[01:08] <mdke> this is not the final artwork?
[01:08] <jdub> Kamion: rad :-) openssh-server?
[01:09] <Kamion> jdub: not at present, because you can install that from the networ
[01:09] <Kamion> k
[01:09] <jdub> ok
[01:09] <Kamion> jdub: we are extremely space-constrained and I only want to include things that way that may be needed to get at the network
[01:09] <jdub> will oversized images work on 700MB CDs?
[01:09] <Kamion> nno
[01:09] <Kamion> no, damn keyboard
[01:10] <Kamion> the official size across the board is now 700MB
[01:10] <jdub> oh, we're using 700-- aha
[01:10] <jdub> right
[01:10] <Kamion> if you look more closely at the apache directory index it should be pretty clear that they're >700MB ;)
[01:10] <jdub> yeah ;)
[01:10] <jdub> wasn't sure if they were outrageously oversized or *just* oversized ;)
[01:11] <jdub> "where the crap did that 70MB come from?!" ;)
[01:11] <Kamion> the technical limit (and the one imposed by MediaMotion) is actually marginally greater than 700MB, but there's not much in it
[01:11] <Kamion> it's 736051200 bytes
[01:11] <infinity> Kamion: Check. I'm still waiting on the OOo build of doom to complete, so I can unstall the world.
[01:12] <jdub> Kamion: next rebuild is the nightly, or pushing another today?
[01:13] <Kamion> jdub: nightly
[01:15] <jdub> Kamion: heh, explaining to a friend that they'll have to check tomorrow ('where tomorrow means this afternoon - canonical runs on something approximating UTC or London time')
[01:15] <jdub> i won't confuse him by explaining cron.hourly
[01:16] <tseng> just tell him that hours fly by really fast when you work for the big C
[01:17] <Kamion> jdub: "in about ten hours"
[01:17] <jdub> Kamion: thanks
[01:17] <Kamion> it's less than that but might as well have an insurance period
[01:17] <jdub> tseng: 'the big C'... not sure mark would appreciate that
[01:17] <tseng> haha
[01:21] <mgalvin> jdub: hey! i will certainly catch up with dholbach about the artwork... would be neat to see all the artwork in edgy
[01:23] <jdub> mgalvin: yeah! thanks for that, it's really cool :)
[01:24] <mgalvin> jdub: eh np, i have been wanting to do that for a while too so i just went ahead and did it :)
[01:24] <jdub> :)
[01:41] <johanbr> I've managed to fiddle with the video restore options to get my machine to come back successfully from hibernation, which it didn't do before. What's the proper way of reporting these changes? There doesn't seem to be an infrastructure in place for the scripts to do the right thing on a machine-dependent basis, so I was hesitant to file a bug.
[01:41] <jdub> johanbr: a bug would be good, then perhaps post to laptop-devel
[01:42] <johanbr> Okay, will do. Thank you.
[01:44] <Kamion> johanbr: sounds like an acpi-support kind of thing
[01:45] <Kamion> it has a load of machine-dependent wonkiness
[01:48] <Riddell> "debconf.DebconfError: (10, "base-installer/kernel/linux/link_in_boot doesn't exist")"  that doesn't seem good
[01:48] <johanbr> Kamion: Okay. Looking at the launchpad acpi-support page right now.
[02:04] <sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/gdm/2.14.6-0ubuntu2
[02:04] <sabdfl> are the buildd's choked?
[02:04] <jdub> sabdfl: there was some discussion earlier about OOo choking them
[02:05] <sabdfl> that seems to have landed - got a load of oo.o2 goodness a second ago
[02:08] <ajmitch> afternoon
[02:09] <sabdfl> hey ajmitch
[02:09] <jsgotangco> good morning
[02:10] <infinity> sabdfl: I had the publisher disabled for a bit.  It's alive again now, gdm should build in this cycle.
[02:11] <sabdfl> infinity: ok, thanks
[02:28] <Chipzz> jdub: yea :(
[02:28] <zul> jdub: wha?
[02:28] <Chipzz> I complained about that here a while ago too...
[02:28] <Chipzz> little positive response though
[02:29] <LaserJock> jdub: kernel source or images?
[02:29] <jdub> Chipzz: it's not really a problem for release-using users
[02:30] <jdub> i just haven't thought about it on the laptop
[02:30] <jdub> (unfortunately, my server has a small /boot, so i'm forced to think about it there)
[02:37] <Chipzz> jdub: true... but I have my doubts about the ever-growing size of linux-image :S
[02:37] <Chipzz> but whatever
[02:41] <bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
[02:43] <sabdfl> jono bacon around?
[02:43] <sabdfl> or anyone else from LugRadio?
[03:07] <bddebian> infinity: Still around?
[03:11] <bddebian> Any archive types around?
[03:16] <bigcx2> hey all
[03:16] <bddebian> Hello bigcx2
[03:17] <bigcx2> with the new java license is there plans to get a sun java package for dapper?
[03:17] <crimsun> it's already in multiverse.
[03:17] <bigcx2> really
[03:17] <bigcx2> hm
[03:17] <bigcx2> that was fast
[03:20] <bddebian> If anyone happens to catch this.  I think libluminate6 binary needs to be removed.  Is it best to ping the mailing list, file a bug, what?
[04:45] <robertj> will 7.1 hit edge on day 1ish?
[04:45] <robertj> err edgy
[04:45] <robertj> (Xorg that is)
[04:47] <cjb> So, this has probably been asked here already, but Google desperately need to get in touch with Ubuntu SoC admins. 
[04:47] <Burgundavia> bddebian, thanks for the work on the multiseat package
[04:48] <bddebian> Burgundavia: Are you being serious? :-)
[04:49] <robertj> when are the SoC projects going to be announced?
[04:50] <Burgundavia> robertj, later today or tomorrow
[04:50] <cjb> robertj: They can't be announced until the dups are cleared up.
[04:50] <cjb> The dups can't be cleared up unless an Ubuntu SoC admin urgently shows up.
[04:50] <cjb> That's why I'm here, see.  :)
[04:50] <robertj> ahh
[04:50] <shenki> oh, excellent (soc applicat patiently waiting in the wings, thinking he was rejected)
[04:50] <Burgundavia> cjb, afaik, all the admins are in europe/za and thus asleep
[04:51] <shenki> wern't the projects supposed to be announced on the 22nd?
[04:51] <shenki> weren't
[04:51] <cjb> shenki: No, it was always supposed to be today.
[04:52] <cjb> The final deadline for *Ubuntu* telling Google which they'd chosen was yesterday.
[04:52] <shenki> cjb: oh, i see. thanks for clearing that one up.
[04:53] <cjb> So, heads up:  if we can't get in touch with anyone, one of Ubuntu's projects is going to be replaced with the project that was just below the acceptance line.
[04:53] <cjb> If that sounds likely to annoy anyone, perhaps it'd be worth waking someone up.  ;-)
[04:53] <robertj> w00h, that means Ubuntu has at least one project!
[04:54] <Burgundavia> jdub, you around?
[04:55] <jsgotangco> he's in za as well i believe
[04:55] <jdub> no, he's here
[04:56] <jdub> in .au
[04:56] <jdub> but i can't help with that
[04:56] <jdub> hold on
[04:56] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:56] <jdub> jsgotangco: that was last week :)
[04:56] <ajmitch> travelling the world again?
[04:56] <robertj> jdub: your reponse time is pretty good, but I think we need to get you a physical terminal bell in the near future just in case for the
[04:57] <jdub> ajmitch: just .za last week
[04:57] <cjb> jdub: Do you want to wake someone up, or let Google handle the conflict?
[04:57] <jdub> robertj: actually, someone posted (somewhere) an irssi script to pop up a notify thingy when your name is mentioned (just like xchat-gnome)
[04:57] <jsgotangco> whoa
[04:58] <jdub> cjb: do you know what the projects are? why is there a fall back?
[04:58] <robertj> jdub: we need something that could wake you up in case you were sleeping
[04:58] <jdub> oh, dupes in the list?
[04:58] <jdub> robertj: my mobile phone can sometimes do that
[04:58] <cjb> jdub: One of ubuntu's accepted proposals was also accepted to osdl.
[04:58] <robertj> jdub: I think we need a real clapper
[04:58] <jdub> cjb: ah, right. hmm.
[04:58] <cjb> And since osdl has fewer projects allocated, he'll go to them unless you argue that you really want him.
[04:58] <jdub> cjb: are you at google now?
[04:59] <cjb> jdub: No, I was helping handle GNOME and got roped in to tracking Ubuntu people down.
[04:59] <jdub> heh
[04:59] <jsgotangco> much appreciated
[05:00] <jdub> cjb: BenC and i have put the call out
[05:00] <jdub> BenC: ;)
[05:00] <BenC> hehe
[05:00] <jdub> (if you use your computer in stretched mode for a while, normal mode starts to look anorexic)
[05:00] <cjb> Thanks.  :)
[05:01] <ajmitch> it's quite humourous
[05:02] <jdub> sadist
[05:02] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:02] <ajmitch> I've spent too much time around here
[05:02] <jsgotangco> including yourself?
[05:02] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, which networok?
[05:02] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: slashnet
[05:06] <robertj> are there logs?
[05:08] <shenki> it's not intresting at all, imo...just 200+ people waiting around for something to happen
[05:09] <cjb> Poor them.  :)
[05:10] <robertj> Someone should prepare a humerous list of other projects to announce first ;)
[05:10] <shenki> now the conspiracy theories are coming out: they believe google are just playing a joke by not releasing the projects :)
[05:10] <LaserJock> maybe we should have them fix all Dapper bugs while they are waiting
[05:10] <imbrandon> lol
[05:10] <cjb> Heh.
[05:10] <shenki> lol
[05:11] <cjb> shenki: If they don't already know, you can tell them that the problem is students accepted by more than one org need to be assigned into one, and a replacement project chosen for the other.
[05:11] <shenki> ok, thanks
[05:11] <shenki> there's a google person in there, but he's not giving any info
[05:12] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[05:12] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, heh
[05:15] <LaserJock> nothing like a pre-SoC warm up :-)
[05:15] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, you should suggest it
[05:17] <bddebian> Gah, why can I never remember where the pre/post/foo scripts are?
[05:19] <LaserJock> bddebian: /var/lib/dpkg/info ?
[05:20] <bddebian> Thx LaserJock
[05:24] <LaserJock> bddebian: I'm just impressed that I could remember that, it must be sticking :-)
[05:24] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:28] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[05:28] <bddebian> See, you are smarter than me :-)
[05:29] <LaserJock> bddebian: maybe I'm just younger, I doubt smarter
[05:30] <LaserJock> I've been in school waaaay too long to be smart :-)
[05:37] <bddebian> heh
[05:57] <poimen> someone was using  XGL on dapper with this two sources in the sources.list? 
[05:57] <poimen> [23:55]  <poimen> deb http://xgl.compiz.info/ dapper main 
[05:57] <poimen> [23:55]  <poimen> deb http://www.beerorkid.com/compiz/ dapper main
[05:59] <jsgotangco> ?
[06:00] <shenki> yes, they probably were...those two repo's contain cvs versions of the libraries you need to run xgl. but did you have a question?
[06:01] <poimen> yea give a sec let me copy my question fro am another channel
[06:01] <poimen> I followed the Xglhowtoo and got a nice working xgl/ubuntu system but today i did a apt-get update and then a apt-get upgrade and now it does not work 
[06:01] <poimen> [23:59]  <poimen> I was asking me if adding this 2 sources is really necesary 
[06:01] <poimen> I folowed the ati howtoo
[06:01] <poimen> xglati on wiki ubuntu
[06:02] <shenki> that's not for this channel
[06:02] <shenki> go to #ubuntu+1
[06:02] <poimen> I asked there...
[06:02] <jsgotangco> the last 2 sources are not from ubuntu the chance of breaking is pretty high
[06:02] <poimen> sorry no one seems to anwser
[06:03] <poimen> jsgotangco thankx 
[06:03] <poimen> so there is another XGL in universe right?
[06:03] <shenki> the best place for info on those sources is the forums on http://compiz.info
[06:04] <poimen> thankx
[07:13] <fabbione> morning
[07:13] <fabbione> jdub: pong
[07:27] <pitti> Good morning
[07:27] <fabbione> morning pitti
[07:27] <Burgundavia> salut fabbione , pitti 
[07:37] <ajmitch> hi pitti, fabbione 
[07:37] <pitti> hi ajmitch 
[07:37] <fabbione> yo yo
[07:43] <Burgundavia> pitti, is a warty to hoary upgrade still supported?
[07:43] <pitti> Burgundavia: since it didn't really change, it should still work
[07:44] <Burgundavia> pitti, ok, just wondering for doc purposes
[07:56] <neuralis> JaneW: ping
[08:32] <pitti> hi kagou 
[08:32] <kagou> hey pitti  :)
[08:45] <dholbach> good morning!
[08:46] <viviersf> rs
[08:50] <pitti> mdz, ogra: ok to upload http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14584 to make carlos and Rosetta happy again?
[08:50] <pitti> mdz, ogra: (simple fix in debian/rules to clean duplicates out of the generated pot file)
[08:51] <carlos> pitti: it's not that they break Rosetta import, they break any .po editor (other than a plain editor that knows nothing about the .po format)
[08:51] <carlos> ;-)
[08:51] <OculusAquilae> hi carlos 
[08:51] <pitti> well, true
[08:51] <pitti> hi carlos
[08:52] <carlos> pitti: btw, I think the .po files are also broken... but that's more difficult to fix if they uses different translations... I will try to fix that manually and talk with upstream
[08:52] <carlos> OculusAquilae: hi
[08:52] <pitti> carlos: alright, I updated the changelog to not claim that they break rosetta ;) (just break the tools, instead)
[08:53] <carlos> pitti: thank you ;-)
[08:54] <pitti> carlos: I just fixed buildd import again, so that we get fewer domains which are in rosetta's, but not in my tarball
[08:54] <carlos> ok
[08:55] <OculusAquilae> carlos, pitti: Are the german .po-files exported from Rosetta. They are suddenly not in the languagepack-kde-de-base
[08:55] <OculusAquilae> of konversation
[08:55] <carlos> I think the language pack was generated before we imported konversation
[08:55] <carlos> pitti: are you going to prepare updated langauge packs tomorrow?
[08:55] <carlos> to follow the schedule
[08:56] <OculusAquilae> It was translated before, but now it isn't
[08:56] <pitti> carlos: we uploaded new ones at Monday, but mdz told me we'll need another one
[08:57] <pitti> carlos: but not sure whether we'll upload at Friday or so (I'm not here anyway, but the soyuz guys can upload the daily ones whenever mdz tells them to)
[08:57] <carlos> ok
[08:58] <carlos> OculusAquilae: because we were using other sources to complete Rosetta exports
[08:58] <carlos> OculusAquilae: and now we are using Rosetta as the only way to generate language packs
[08:58] <OculusAquilae> ah
[08:59] <OculusAquilae> was a bit late to change that :)
[09:00] <carlos> OculusAquilae: we were transfering things every day, and last Monday, we were supposed to have all things migrated. I'm not sure how is that we didn't detect that the Konversation's .pot file was missing
[09:00] <OculusAquilae> carlos: what about k3b's language-files. they seem not to be in the language-pack too
[09:01] <carlos> OculusAquilae: that's because the k3b's .pot file was broken
[09:01] <neuralis> JaneW: around?
[09:01] <carlos> it's fixed now, but after latest language pack release, so it has the same problem
[09:01] <carlos> next update should include it
[09:01] <OculusAquilae> ok
[09:02] <OculusAquilae> thanks
[09:04] <carlos> OculusAquilae: please, check the daily snapshots to confirm it
[09:04] <OculusAquilae> ktorrent's .pot-file should be fixed in 0ubuntu5 
[09:04] <carlos> OculusAquilae: so we have time to fix anything that is still missing
[09:04] <carlos> OculusAquilae: I approved it yesterday, yes
[09:04] <OculusAquilae> daily snapshots of what?
[09:05] <carlos> OculusAquilae: of language packs
[09:05] <OculusAquilae> there are daily snapshots?
[09:06] <carlos> OculusAquilae: yes, Martin announced it a couple of weeks ago
[09:06] <pitti> OculusAquilae:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2006-May/000537.html
[09:07] <OculusAquilae> ok I'll test
[09:09] <carlos> OculusAquilae: thanks
[09:23] <JaneW> neuralis: yep
[09:28] <fabbione> pitti: there is a new ppc live
[09:29] <sivang> Riddell: do you know if muse wnet down yeasterday? I lost my screen sessions.
[09:29] <pitti> fabbione: yes, it just finished burning here :)
[09:29] <fabbione> yeah
[09:35] <lmanul> neuralis: ping ?
[09:35] <neuralis> lmanul: pong
[09:35] <lmanul> Hi :) Just got the great news !
[09:36] <lmanul> Have 2 mn for a /query ?
[09:36] <fabbione> pitti: did you notice that usplash on ppc live doesn't go all the way to X?
[09:36] <fabbione> pitti: or is it just me?
[09:36] <pitti> fabbione: sometimes it fails, in 70% of the cases it works for me
[09:36] <pitti> I can't see a pattern
[09:36] <fabbione> pitti: mine exits around swithing to init 2
[09:37] <neuralis> lmanul: /join #olpc
[09:37] <lmanul> neuralis: Ah, great, ok
[09:40] <OculusAquilae> carlos: konversation seems to be still in englisch with yesterdays german langpack, k3b is ok and for ktorrent I think we must wait for the build today
[09:43] <carlos> OculusAquilae: everything looks ok for konversation
[09:43] <OculusAquilae> hm
[09:46] <sfllaw> Mithrandir: Good question.
[09:47] <OculusAquilae> carlos: perhaps we must wait for the daily build of the langpack
[09:48] <pitti> funny, dapper-alternate-powerpc.iso is recognized as a font file in nautilus, so you can't burn it
[09:48] <pitti> seb128: ^ nice gtk bug :-P
[09:49] <OculusAquilae> carlos: it
[09:49] <seb128> pitti: lol
[09:49] <OculusAquilae> carlos: it's definately not in language-pack-kde-de-base
[09:50] <carlos> OculusAquilae: yeah, I'm checking it atm
[09:50] <carlos> OculusAquilae: seems like it was imported yesterday
[09:50] <carlos> so it should appear today
[09:50] <OculusAquilae> ok I'll test that again tonight
[09:51] <carlos> OculusAquilae: thanks
[09:51] <Mithrandir> pitti: it's probably a bug in the mime database from fd.o
[09:52] <fabbione> crap
[09:52] <fabbione> ubiquity just crashed on me
[09:53] <pitti> seb128: oh, on second look, Ctrl+R fixed it; it had a big 'A' with a box around it, and it offered archive manager, so it was not *that* wrong at least :)
[09:53] <seb128> ctrl-R fixed it!?
[09:54] <seb128> and when you click on it it's fine now?
[09:54] <seb128> directory listing is done using the filename
[09:54] <pitti> affirmative
[09:54] <seb128> when you select a file it does mimemagic
[09:54] <seb128> it doesn't change when you select it?
[09:54] <fabbione> pitti: did you already run ubiquity on ppc live?
[09:54] <pitti> seb128: now it stays stable (cdrom document with 'iso'), as it should be
[09:54] <fabbione> pitti: if so go for debugging... mine crashed
[09:55] <seb128> pitti: weird
[09:55] <pitti> fabbione: no, currently running alternate CD install
[09:55] <fabbione> pitti: ok
[09:55] <pitti> fabbione: will do, but mine will still take a while (slow disk...)
[09:55] <fabbione> pitti: i am rebooting right now.. but at least i want to make sure i am not the only one
[09:56] <pitti> fabbione: did you see an exception in /var/log/installer/syslog?
[09:56] <fabbione> pitti: no, didn't check beacuse i was running without debugging
[09:56] <pitti> exceptions should still be in it; anyway, I'll try it here, too
[09:56] <pitti> ETA ~ 45 minutes
[10:02] <Kinnison> Morning guys
[10:03] <simira> good morning, Kinnison 
[10:03] <Kinnison> Hi simira
[10:03] <Treenaks> morning simira 
[10:03] <ajmitch> morning simira, Kinnison 
[10:03] <Kinnison> ajm.
[10:04] <Kinnison> Morning mvo
[10:05] <mvo> hey Kinnison
[10:05] <Burgundavia> hey Kinnison 
[10:06] <simira> morning Treenaks, mvo 
[10:06] <simira> ajmitch :)
[10:06] <Treenaks> Welcome to #greetings
[10:06] <simira> Treenaks: it's a lovely morning ;)
[10:08] <sivang> hey all
[10:08] <sivang> simira: it is indeed so
[10:10] <simira> morning sivang 
[10:14] <\sh> moins
[10:14] <\sh> did anybody tried to format a >5TB partition with xfs with an ubuntu-server kernel?
[10:14] <mdz> pitti: tuxpaint-stamps is fine
[10:14] <fabbione> pitti: it looks like yaboot still fails
[10:15] <pitti> mdz: thanks, uploading
[10:15] <pitti> mdz: good morning :)
[10:16] <fabbione> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/installer.tar.gz <- ppc ubiquity failure from the last daily
[10:16] <\sh> I have the problem, that I have a 6.3TB partition and tried to format it with mkfs.xfs -f /dev/sdb1 and it only formats 301G
[10:16] <pitti> fabbione: darn :/
[10:16] <fabbione> \sh: probably you need to look at stuff like block size and so on
[10:17] <fabbione> what if you format it with another FS?
[10:17] <\sh> fabbione: that I will try now, but I thought, that someone could know ;)
[10:17] <fabbione> \sh: mostlikely you will need bigger blocks or something
[10:18] <\sh> fabbione: looks like...let's see
[10:21] <\sh> oh wow
[10:21] <\sh> the problem is somewhere else
[10:23] <\sh> fdisk is the problem
[10:23] <\sh> it detects the correct size of the partition but doesn't use it when I'm creating a new partition with max size
[10:29] <\sh> fdisk and cfdisk are creating a partition with the maximum size...I'm writing it back to the partition table, quit fdisk and cfdisk and re-execute fdisk or cfdisk and suddenly my partition table shows me max. 301G and not the correct size
[10:30] <\sh> dmesg output
[10:30] <\sh> sdb : very big device. try to use READ CAPACITY(16).
[10:30] <\sh> SCSI device sdb: 13515615232 512-byte hdwr sectors (6919995 MB)
[10:30] <\sh> SCSI device sdb: drive cache: write back
[10:30] <\sh> sdb : very big device. try to use READ CAPACITY(16).
[10:30] <\sh> SCSI device sdb: 13515615232 512-byte hdwr sectors (6919995 MB)
[10:30] <\sh> SCSI device sdb: drive cache: write back
[10:30] <fabbione> \sh: try to dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/bigfatdevice bs=1024 count=64
[10:30] <fabbione> that should reset the partition table
[10:31] <fabbione> and then do a fdisk/cfdisk
[10:31] <fabbione> IMHO there is a flag you need to set for bigfatdevices
[10:31] <\sh> fabbione: cool thgx
[10:32] <pitti> fabbione: ppc/install succeeded, starting live now
[10:33] <fabbione> pitti: ok
[10:33] <\sh> fabbione: nope...same problem...cfdisk/fdisk is only allocating max. 301G (same applies for ext3)
[10:34] <fabbione> \sh:         # Use gpt instead of msdos disklabel for disks larger than 2TB
[10:34] <fabbione> \sh: try using parted
[10:34] <ivoks> right
[10:34] <ivoks> that's the only way
[10:34] <fabbione> libparted supports that forma
[10:34] <fabbione> +t
[10:36] <ivoks> \sh: and make it XFS :)
[10:36] <Amaranth> and make sure you have a good UPS to go along with it :)
[10:37] <ivoks> and your own power plant
[10:37] <pitti> fabbione: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current is not the page to be used any more?
[10:37] <Amaranth> ooh, screw xfs use reiser4!
[10:37] <fabbione> pitti: dunno.. i was waiting for sfllaw to clean it up
[10:38] <\sh> fabbione: same problem
[10:38] <\sh> (parted) mkpart primary 0 6599421.500
[10:38] <\sh> (parted) p
[10:38] <\sh> Disk geometry for /dev/sdb: 0.000-6599421.500 megabytes
[10:38] <\sh> Disk label type: msdos
[10:38] <\sh> Minor    Start       End     Type      Filesystem  Flags
[10:38] <\sh> 1          0.031 307964.419  primary
 Disk label type: msdos <-
[10:38] <pitti> fabbione: ok, I pinged him
[10:38] <\sh> shit
[10:38] <fabbione> you need to make that one gpt
[10:39] <ivoks> fabbione: dapper supports gpl out of the box?
[10:39] <fabbione> ivoks: it should
[10:39] <ivoks> fabbione: great... last time i needed distro for 2+TB disk, i had to compile my own kernel and force instalation to use it :/
[10:39] <\sh> fabbione: thx :=
[10:39] <ivoks> fabbione: (debian was that)
[10:41] <mdz> infinity: around?
[10:42] <fabbione> \sh: but with a 6TB volume i strongly recommend to use LVM on it
[10:46] <Kamion> Riddell: the ubiquity failure you reported was fixed in ubiquity 1.0.4 yesterday
[10:46] <pitti> good morning Kamion 
[10:47] <Kamion> fabbione: you too, same bug
[10:47] <Kamion> (bug 46160)
[10:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46160 in ubiquity "base-installer/kernel/linux/link_in_boot missing from templates" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46160
[10:47] <Kamion> oh, huh, you *have* ubiquity 1.0.4
[10:47] <Kamion> well, damn, let me investigate
[10:47] <pitti> Kamion: I'm testing current CD (with 1.0.4) right now, with verbose debugging
[10:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping
[10:48] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes?
[10:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: o ye of much bandwidth, I need your help to unravel this latest openoffice mess
[10:48] <Kamion> confirmed that that template is indeed missing
[10:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: the .desktop file changes written in the most recent changelog entry have not, in fact, taken effect
[10:49] <mdz> Mithrandir: it looks like he changed a set of .desktop files which are not used in the build
[10:49] <\sh> fabbione: well, tbh, they are using it without LVM...and they don't want...let's see what I can do here to change that
[10:49] <mdz> Mithrandir: would you have a look?
[10:49] <Mithrandir> mdz: humm, I'll take a look.
[10:49] <pitti> Kamion: ok, so I can as well cancel the current attempt and rather test the alternate CD some more?
[10:49] <fabbione> \sh: well it was a suggestion.. do what you are asked to
[10:49] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[10:50] <Kamion> I'll fix it ASAP
[10:50] <ivoks> fabbione: why lvm, if i may ask?
[10:50] <fabbione> Kamion: let me know when you want me to test
[10:50] <fabbione> ivoks: flexibility
[10:50] <ivoks> true...
[10:50] <ivoks> one hardly needs one 6GB partition :)
[10:50] <Mithrandir> mvo: apt-get source is buggy, it doesn't look for a exact source package match first.
[10:50] <Mithrandir> mvo: so apt-get source openoffice.org on amd64 gives me ooo-amd64
[10:51] <Keybuk> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[10:51] <Keybuk> oh man
[10:51] <Keybuk>  multiseat (0.9.11) dapper; urgency=low
[10:51] <Keybuk>  .
[10:51] <Keybuk>    * Replace hotplug deps with udev and module-init-scripts
[10:51] <Keybuk> -- 
[10:51] <fabbione> ivoks: from experience you grow the disks as you need
[10:51] <Keybuk> sum total of changes: a change to the Depends line
[10:51] <\sh> fabbione: funny thing...in 2 weeks we have to do a fully automatic installation of sles9sp3 on 600 of those servers 2x dual core opeteron systems, 16GB RAM, 8TB storage raid6 hw
[10:51] <Keybuk> Barry is so in for a teasing when he wakes up
[10:51] <sfllaw> pitti: Computer just crashed.
[10:51] <ivoks> fabbione: i have that situation right now... two sets od 3TB partitions
[10:51] <pitti> sfllaw: ouch :/
[10:52] <fabbione> \sh: nice toys.. send me one
[10:52] <ivoks> fabbione: one empy, other full... i'm planing copy/format/lvm/back/format/add_to_lvm :)
[10:52] <mdz> mvo: that's what --only-source does
[10:52] <fabbione> 600 or 599 won't make a diff :)
[10:52] <HrdwrBoB> ivoks: in my experience one regularly needs large partitions
[10:52] <mdz> er
[10:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: that's what --only-source does
[10:52] <ivoks> \sh: that meens... job? :)
[10:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: it's weird, but unfortunately that's how it was designed to work
[10:52] <fabbione> ivoks: you can just make the empty LVM, copy the data, make the first lvm and add it to the same VG and resize the data
[10:53] <Mithrandir> mdz: ew, ok.
[10:53] <\sh> ivoks: yes
[10:53] <ivoks> fabbione: if i recall, there was a reason why that wasn't an option, but can't rember now why exactly...
[10:54] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh dear me
[10:54] <Kamion>   * Sing LA LA LA, they can't hear me
[10:54] <ivoks> HrdwrBoB: over 6TB?
[10:55] <ivoks> ok, we are getting offtopic :)
[10:55] <sfllaw> Keybuk: Mmm.  Custard.
[10:56] <Kamion> dholbach: I'll try to do the apt-get.org import today
[10:56] <dholbach> Kamion: you rock! thanks a lot!
[10:58] <ivoks> ok, time for work :/
[10:58] <ivoks> bye, see you later
[11:00] <infinity> mdz: Am now.
[11:06] <mdz> infinity: guess what
[11:07] <infinity> Backscroll leads me to believe I need to do another OOo build.
[11:07] <infinity> Something about .desktop files.
[11:08] <infinity> Well, it's either that or "guess what, chicken butt", but I'm not sure if you were an SNL fan in the 80s.
[11:12] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm unsure what change doko has actually done.
[11:13] <mdz> Mithrandir: he seems to have changed the files in ooo-build/desktop
[11:13] <mdz> Mithrandir: but in debian/rules, different files are used
[11:13] <Mithrandir> mdz: hmm.  What is the expected result?  I'm unsure what's wrong based on the changelog.
[11:14] <mdz> Mithrandir: the current menu entries in the .deb are "OpenOffice.org {Base,Calc,Impress,Writer,...}"
[11:14] <mdz> Mithrandir: they need to be changed to the names listed in the changelog
[11:14] <Mithrandir> mdz: ah, ok.
[11:15] <Kamion> did doko edit a generated file by mistake or something?
[11:15] <Mithrandir>         rm -rf ooo-build/desktop/*.desktop
[11:15] <Mithrandir> comes from the clean target, so I suspect so.
[11:17] <Kamion> oh, fucking hell
[11:17] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'll have you a patch in a little while.  I think I know what's wrong and how to fix it.
[11:17] <Kamion>         grep-dctrl -XFTemplate base-installer/kernel/linux/link_in_boot \
[11:17] <Kamion>                 d-i/templates | \
[11:17] <Kamion>                 >> debian/ubiquity/DEBIAN/templates
[11:17] <Kamion> spot the mistake
[11:17] <Mithrandir> | \ >> ?
[11:17] <Kamion> bingo
[11:17] <Mithrandir> a bit hard on the C&P when you wrote that code?
[11:18] <mdz> Kamion: no, there are just two sets of desktop files and he edited the wrong ones, it looks like
[11:18] <mdz> and didn't test his change
[11:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: probably just too tired
[11:19] <Mithrandir> mdz: you can't just edit the .desktop files, you have to patch them.  I'll do so.
[11:19] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[11:19] <sabdfl> seb128: i still have that weird video squish effect if I fire up Totem, then open the video file
[11:20] <sabdfl> what was that magic command that worked?
[11:20] <sabdfl> hi fabbione, rock stars et al
[11:20] <pitti> moin sabdfl, does the plague get better?
[11:20] <fabbione> sabdfl: ehhe :)
[11:21] <sabdfl> pitti: it doth improve mightily
[11:27] <mdke> Keybuk: mmmmm
[11:28] <mdke> a whole vat
[11:28] <mdke> i can handle it
[11:32] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: rewrite it in asm :)
[11:33] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: I think it's quicker to wait for it to finish than do that
[11:33] <seb128> sabdfl: gst-launch-0.10 playbin uri=.... plays it fine, I've pinged upstream about it
[11:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: I think I have a fix, now I just need to wringe it out of the build system properly.
[11:35] <mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
[11:36] <thom> sabdfl: have you seen jonathan schwarz's blog entry today/last night? you've been promoted to "guy behind ubuntu/debian/gnu/linux" :-)
[11:38] <sabdfl> oh dear
[11:38] <simira> not a bad promotion, I'd say
[11:38] <simira> a friend passes here on his way to work, btw: http://ilmari.org/pics/shuttleworth_road.jpg
[11:38] <sabdfl> the original reports from java-one came out quoting him as saying "SUN would really stand behind the fork that Ubuntu is doing"
[11:38] <sabdfl> later corrected to "the work that Ubuntu is doing"
[11:39] <thom> sabdfl: yeah, i saw mention of that. oops :/
[11:39] <sabdfl> i suspect RMS might be a bit upset at the gnu bit
[11:39] <sabdfl> thom: url for his blog?
[11:40] <thom> http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/jonathan?entry=busy_week1
[11:42] <thom> (he's going to piss RHAT off with the same post, but i doubt he cares about that)
[11:47] <iwj> Kamion: Yes, the 60.6 typo was only in the changelog.
[11:49] <Keybuk> infinity: did OpenOffice build at last?
[11:49] <mvo> mdz: the CJK people asked me for a sync of the ttf-arphic-uming font package, apparently they discovered that the "i" and "j" dots are missing with latest cairo (ubuntu bug #46297)
[11:49] <mdz> mvo: sure, why not
[11:50] <infinity> Keybuk: Yes, and now it's building again. :/
[11:50] <Keybuk> openoffice.org 2.0.2-2ubuntu8 openoffice.org2-evolution(amd64/all) 2.0.1oob680m5-0ubuntu2 from 2.0.1oob680m5-0ubuntu2
[11:50] <Keybuk> was that NBS?
[11:50] <Keybuk> or just a fuckage?
[11:50] <iwj> LaserJock: pong ?
[11:51] <infinity> Keybuk: That's "we haven't uploaded OOo-amd64 yet"
[11:51] <Keybuk> infinity: what's the amd64/all bit mean?
[11:51] <Keybuk> infinity: it's an _all package isn't it/
[11:51] <infinity> Keybuk: There's also other OOo fuckage lingering the archive, I'm not sure which that is.
[11:52] <infinity> Keybuk: That's what the britney output would lead me to believe, yes.
[11:53] <infinity> Keybuk: Anyhow, we know to go over this all with a fine-toothed comb, AFTER the new OOo and OOo-amd64 are in.  You'll note that testing_probs.html is still goofy too, and it's due to some archive buggery that needs to be sorted yesterday.
[11:53] <Keybuk> fairy nuff
[11:53] <fabbione> Keybuk: dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:191: process_queue: Assertion `dependtry <= 4' faile.
[11:53] <fabbione>  ???
[11:53] <Keybuk> fabbione: ANCIENT DPKG BUG
[11:53] <Keybuk> it's like Debian bug #4 or something
[11:54] <fabbione> Keybuk: what can trigger it?
[11:54] <Keybuk> fabbione: loops in the depedency fields
[11:54] <fabbione> or corrupted status file
[11:55] <infinity> Okay, Mithrandir's OOo-i386 test-building right now.
[11:55] <zakame> hi all
[11:56] <fabbione> hi zakame 
[11:56] <Keybuk> fabbione: iirc. it's when you have a virtual package that's depended on by a package that provides a virtual package depended on by the package providing the first virtual package
[11:57] <Keybuk> there may be other triggers
[11:57] <fabbione> Keybuk: it's a corrupted status file. i am telling you :))
[11:57] <fabbione> it would be nice wth is corrupted tho
[11:57] <Keybuk> fabbione: yes, if that status file produces the above effect
[11:57] <fabbione> yeps
[11:57] <fabbione> and the -old is now corrupted too
[11:57] <Keybuk> can be a corrupted available file too
[11:58] <Keybuk> or just a broken package
[11:58] <fabbione> broken package is unlikely
[11:58] <Keybuk> about once every few months, someone uploads a package that dpkg bails out on
[11:58] <Keybuk> (with that exception)
[11:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, ppc/oem install user still has the wrong $PATH
[11:59] <Keybuk> it's just a safety slip; it means dpkg has caught itself going round the same dependency graph a few times and is clearly in an infinite loop
[11:59] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'm unable to reproduce it.  You remembered to run the oem-config-prepare before rebooting?
[12:00] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, sure (otherwise I wouldn't have gotten that user setup wizard)
[12:00] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, maybe that was confusing; the 'oem' user is fine, the new user created by that tool has just /bin and /usr/bin
[12:01] <Mithrandir> pitti: uh.  
[12:01] <Mithrandir> pitti: and /etc/environment at the first boot, when you go into the customisation thing is ok or not?
[12:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: can't tell any more; right now I'm in the session of the wizard created user ('martin'), and /etc/environment does not have $PATH
[12:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: does the wizard change /etc/environment?
[12:02] <Mithrandir> pitti: I didn't think so, no.
[12:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: 'sudo oem-config-prepare' worked, which is in /usr/sbin, so I'm pretty sure that $PATH for 'oem' user was fine
[12:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: unless there was a /home/oem/.bashrc which set it
[12:04] <Mithrandir> pitti: that's started from the init script which explicitly sets path, though.
[12:05] <pitti> Mithrandir: I don't understand - I have to log in as 'oem' through gdm
[12:05] <Mithrandir> hmm, true
[12:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: is there anything I can debug in the current state of the system, or can I trash it?
[12:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: just trash it.  If you can get me the state of etc/environment on first boot, that'd be useful
[12:07] <Kamion> ok, that's odd, we just use user-setup to create the new user
[12:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: shall I reattempt it right now (if you want to debug it now)? or does that have some time?
[12:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: if you could do it right away, that'd be useful.
[12:07] <Kamion> oh, it does fiddle with /etc/environment
[12:07] <Kamion> see oem-config/locale
[12:08] <Kamion> damn, that's broken
[12:08] <Kamion>         grep -v '^\(LANG\|LANGUAGE\)=' /etc/environment | (
[12:08] <Kamion>                 echo "LANG=\"$LOCALE\""
[12:08] <Kamion>                 echo "LANGUAGE=\"$LANGLIST\""
[12:08] <Kamion>         ) > /etc/environment.new
[12:08] <Kamion> missing cat in there
[12:08] <Mithrandir> Kamion: eww.
[12:08] <Kamion> I'll fix it now
[12:08] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[12:08] <pitti> great!
[12:08] <Mithrandir> where's that from?  User-setup?
[12:08] <Kamion> localechooser
[12:08] <Kamion> needs to set the new default system locale, so it's messy
[12:09] <Mithrandir> yeah. :-/
[12:09] <Kamion> I'll use sed -i instead
[12:10] <Kamion>         sed -i "s/^LANG=.*/LANG=\"$LOCALE\"/" /etc/environment
[12:10] <Kamion>         sed -i "s/^LANGUAGE=.*/LANGUAGE=\"$LANGLIST\"/" /etc/environment
[12:10] <Kamion> does that look right?
[12:10] <Kamion> actually I'll use commas rather than slashes
[12:10] <Kamion>         sed -i "s,^LANG=.*,LANG=\"$LOCALE\"," /etc/environment
[12:10] <Kamion>         sed -i "s,^LANGUAGE=.*,LANGUAGE=\"$LANGLIST\"," /etc/environment
[12:11] <Mithrandir> looks correct to me
[12:11] <pitti> Kamion: maybe sed -i 's...' to further simplify the embedded "
[12:11] <Kamion> pitti: need variable substitution in there so it'd be messy with ''
[12:11] <Mithrandir> pitti: nope, that won't work.
[12:11] <pitti> Kamion: can we guarantee that there will be no spaces before the LANG?
[12:11] <pitti> Kamion: right, ignore me; sorry
[12:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: $LOCALE and $LANGLIST can't ever contain ",", right?
[12:12] <infinity> They certainly shouldn't.
[12:12] <Kamion> pitti: yes, I don't think pam_env would understand leading spaces
[12:12] <Kamion> Mithrandir: not that I can think of; $LANGLIST is :-separated
[12:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: also, no "," in /u/s/i18n/SUPPORTED, so I think it's safe.
[12:15] <sfllaw> Wait a second...  jkakar doesn't work on distro, does he?
[12:16] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: re what you want me to test; I don't have netboot set up here and it'd be kinda hard for me to do.
[12:16] <infinity> No.
[12:16] <sabdfl> heno: there's a new plan_m.ogg which rocks
[12:16] <sabdfl> could you sync up with Jonathan on it?
[12:16] <Riddell> mdz: can I upload this security fix for koffice? http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/koffice.diff
[12:16] <pitti> sfllaw: why did you revert my Testing/DapperUpgrades -> DapperUpgrades change on Testing/Current?
[12:16] <Keybuk> mvo: subscribe, not assign
[12:16] <mdz> Riddell: sure
[12:16] <Riddell> jono, mdke: do we have the text from jjesse?
[12:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir,pitti: right, fixed, thanks
[12:16] <sfllaw> pitti: I thought I made a typo.  Because it said [DapperUpgrades] .
[12:17] <Riddell> thanks mdz 
[12:17] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: also, you might want to swap me into doing dvd tests since I have plenty of bandwidth.
[12:17] <pitti> sfllaw: well, Testing/DU doesn't exist, and DU is apparently the right onw
[12:17] <pitti> sfllaw: s/w$/e/
[12:17] <heno> sabdfl: right
[12:17] <jono> Riddell: just one sec, phone
[12:18] <sfllaw> pitti: Ah.  I'll change it.  Thanks.
[12:18] <pitti> sfllaw: I'd like to swap ubuntu-server testing with BenC's ppc/alternate CD testing, since I have very limited BW here
[12:18] <ploum> hello
[12:18] <ploum> is there a list of accepted Ubuntu SoC ?
[12:18] <seb128> hi
[12:18] <sfllaw> pitti: OK.
[12:18] <pitti> sfllaw: I'll ask Ben, but woudl that be fine for you?
[12:18] <Riddell> jono, mdke: ah, found it in e-mail, ch07_Ubuntu.doc
[12:18] <seb128> ploum: not sure, looks like you are accepted to GLaunchpad though
[12:19] <sfllaw> pitti: Of course.  I was just optimizing based on HW availability.
[12:19] <ploum> looks likte yes
[12:19] <sfllaw> And spreading out the work.
[12:19] <pitti> sfllaw: it's ppc either way :)
[12:19] <sfllaw> Mithrandir: OK.  I'll shuffle that around.
[12:19] <Kamion> server guys: you know to rsync *-server-* rather than *-install-* now, right?
[12:20] <sfllaw> pitti: When you file bugs, could you put them at the bottom of the page, thanks?
[12:20] <pitti> sfllaw: yes, I did so for the OEM issue
[12:20] <pitti> sfllaw: if I find more, I will do that
[12:22] <sfllaw> pitti: Thanks.
[12:23] <sfllaw> !!! I've changed Testing/Current to reflect requests !!!
[12:24] <Keybuk> sfllaw: I don't have a disk to erase on powerpc, I'm afraid
[12:24] <ogra> pitti, ping 
[12:25] <ogra> pitti, ppc didnt like your language additions
[12:25] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: what's the DapperUpgrades thingy?
[12:25] <pitti> ogra: too big? or another bug?
[12:25] <ogra> pitti, how exactly do i read http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/langpacksize.txt 
[12:25] <ogra> pitti, too big
[12:25] <pitti> ogra: did you add ship-live yesterday?
[12:26] <pitti> ogra: we had drastically strip down the ubuntu CDs again due to addition of ship-live yesterday
[12:26] <ogra> pitti, am i rtight assuming the last column includes the language-support packages ? 
[12:26] <pitti> ogra: ok, an example:
[12:26] <pitti> am     G:     127490  K:      23882  G+K:     135106  GSum:   29646734  KSum:   39510732 G+KSum:   54728710
[12:26] <ogra> yeah
[12:26] <pitti> ogra: that means base+gnome = 127490, base+kde = 23882, base+gnome+kde = 135106
[12:27] <Kamion> ogra: language-support is not included there
[12:27] <pitti> ogra: all in bytes
[12:27] <ogra> ok
[12:27] <pitti> ogra: as Kamion says, only l-pack-*
[12:27] <Kamion> you should never include language-support for anything other than -en, unless you have huge amounts of CD space to randomly burn
[12:27] <pitti> ogra: the last three colums are the same gnome/kde/both, but cumulatively from the top
[12:27] <ogra> (i'm trying to keep as much as i can while not dropping ship-live)
[12:28] <pitti> ogra: the list is sorted by our prefered priority; English, then the top 11, then alphabetically
[12:28] <dholbach> mdz: ok to upload gnome-power-manager with new icons? or better defer?
[12:28] <Kamion> dropping build-essential/fakeroot/linux-headers from Edubuntu ship-live would be fairly reasonable, I think
[12:28] <pitti> ogra: so, for edubuntu you should look at G+KSum until you find the row which matches the available CD space and add packs until this
[12:28] <Kamion> (if you pulled in that change)
[12:28] <mdz> dholbach: sure, why not
[12:28] <Kamion> and even the network access stuff is probably not critical for Edubuntu, given the server focus
[12:29] <dholbach> mdz: ok, uploading.
[12:29] <ogra> Kamion, if i drop build-essential/fakeroot/linux-headers, what sense do the other parts of ship-live make ? 
[12:29] <Kamion> ogra: plenty
[12:29] <ogra> i assume a user wants to compile some modules, so he should have build essential and the linux headers package
[12:29] <ogra> s
[12:29] <Kamion> ogra: if there are people setting up Edubuntu servers behind strange network hardware (e.g. a school connected by some strange USB ADSL business) then they'll need that
[12:30] <Kamion> ogra: the other pieces of ship-live do not, to my knowledge, require kernel modules other than those in the base install
[12:30] <ogra> hmm, k but in that case they'll use the default CD anyway, i see
[12:30] <Kamion> with the exception of avm-fritz-firmware which provides additional precompiled modules
[12:31] <ogra> i just dont want to differ too much, that will confuse in support
[12:31] <Kamion> the network access bits come to roughly 2.7MB IIRC
[12:31] <ogra> ok
[12:31] <Kamion> but it's up to you
[12:31] <ogra> yep, i know ... i always have to make the evil decisions ...
[12:32] <Kamion> and it's only really super-important for Ubuntu and Kubuntu because we're sending live CDs out in shipit
[12:32] <Kamion> for Edubuntu it does not seem so critical
[12:32] <jono> Riddell: sorry, on the phone with Sun, Jonathan is having trouble submitting
[12:32] <jono> Riddell: how much time is there before Kubuntu fully freezes
[12:32] <ogra> Kamion, i'll drop linux-headers and friends for now, will also make room for langs on i386 and amd64
[12:33] <mvo_> mdz: I have a icon update for update-notifier pending as well, is it ok to upload today? or better defer?
[12:34] <infinity> mvo_: We're redoing OOo builds AGAIN, so I suspect something as harmless as an icon update would be fine.
[12:34] <infinity> mdz: ^^^
[12:34] <mvo_> infinity: cool, I'll be on it right after lunch
[12:35] <sfllaw> Mithrandir: That's using update-manager, which mvo (?) wrote.
[12:35] <sfllaw> Gah!  Internet has gone down.
[12:35] <sfllaw> Stealing wireless now.
[12:36] <sfllaw> It's bad when pppd says "Remote message: No valid RADIUS server found.", right?
[12:37] <ogra> Kamion, that was a pointless discussion :P i didnt merge the seeds yet :/
[12:37] <Kamion> heh
[12:37] <Kamion> well, you know in case you do ;)
[12:38] <ogra> 7me goes back to langpack fiddling
[12:39] <pitti> ogra: sorry if I messed that up, I wasn't aware of the ship-live addition when I updated the ubuntu and edubuntu seeds
[12:40] <ogra> pitti, ship-live is empty in edubuntu 
[12:40] <pitti> hm
[12:40] <ogra> and dont feel sorry :)
[12:40] <pitti> ogra: ok, so it was just a little too big then? miscalculation?
[12:40] <ogra> (for some value of empty ... it still had the isdn stuff and ndiswrapper etc)
[12:41] <ogra> pitti, you calculated on top of yesterdays isos i guess, the livefs wasnt up to date 
[12:41] <pitti> ogra: weird then; I'm pretty sure that the calculation was correct against yesterday morning's image, but with so many changes in example-content and so on it was a moving target
[12:41] <pitti> ogra: right
[12:42] <Riddell> jono: I have the .doc file here, how hard can it be to save as HTML?
[12:42] <ogra> and the livefs builds failed for different reasons (packages being build etc)
[12:42] <jono> Riddell: well, I personally dumped it to plain text, stuck it in NVU and marked it up. Take a look at the files I submitted to dholbach to see how they work
[12:43] <jono> Riddell: you could also try htmltidy
[12:43] <dholbach> Riddell: I'll send them to you in a sec
[12:43] <jono> Riddell: I would do it for you, but I am up against a schedule today
[12:43] <Riddell> dholbach: I've got it
[12:43] <dholbach> ah ok
[12:43] <Riddell> jono: I'll do it, should be fine
[12:46] <heno> Riddell: if you can send me the book images I can crunch the file size a bit
[12:47] <ogra> Kamion, i have one user in #edubuntu who did an ubiquity install, his grub menu now shows "ubuntu kernel 2.6.15" and "ubuntu 6.06 LTS", he had breezy and XP on the machine (and was not running 2.6.15 on this breezy)
[12:50] <dholbach> doko, infinity, Mithrandir: I took some of your tasks on Testing/Current
[12:51] <infinity> dholbach: Thanks. :)
[12:51] <Kamion> ogra: well, that would be correct given that that's what he just installed ...?
[12:51] <ogra> Kamion, two entries ?
[12:51] <ogra> i usually only have one for the new system 
[12:51] <Kamion> ogra: oh, if the complaint is that breezy and XP aren't on the grub menu, perhaps he should check fdisk to make sure their partitions are in fact still there ... I hope he was using a current daily?
[12:52] <ogra> nomed, the complaint is that he has two entries for the new system
[12:52] <Riddell> heno: e-mail bounced to you
[12:52] <Kamion> ogra: please get the user to file a coherent bug report, attaching /boot/grub/menu.lst
[12:52] <Kamion> I don't want to deal at second hand if I can deal at first hand instead :)
[12:53] <jono> Riddell: ok :)
[12:53] <pitti> mvo_: btw, is the update-manager dist-upgrade tool launched when I insert a CD?
[12:57] <ogra> Kamion, forwarded ... but apparently he's already doing a new install already ... :7
[01:03] <mvo_> pitti: no, just the "do you want to add this cd" thingie
[01:04] <pitti> mvo_: ok, so as long as I can use the CD as an apt source for the upgrade, that's fine
[01:04] <mvo_> pitti: yes, if it is added, the packages from there will be used
[01:08] <Kamion> mdz: reproduced bug 43820; I believe it's a one-line syntax error fix in lilo-installer (remove a stray ";;"). OK to upload once I've confirmed?
[01:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43820 in debian-installer "Missing bootloader for XFS installs " [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43820
[01:09] <Mithrandir> mvo_: the auto-upgrade thingy says "CD" even though I have a DVD. :-P
[01:09] <Mithrandir> anyway, rebooting to live session and such now.
[01:09] <mdz> Kamion: yep
[01:09] <mvo_> Mithrandir: hal-integration will be done for edgy :P
[01:09] <pitti> mvo_: similarly to the behaviour in hoary?
[01:10] <mvo_> pitti: you mean with respect to doing cd-based upgrade? I would like to have a spec for this, yes
[01:13] <mdz> Kamion: what's the simplest way for someone doing CD testing to confirm that they've got the correct build?
[01:13] <Kamion> mdz: check the .disk/info file on the CD
[01:13] <mdz> Kamion: that's not very simple to write instructions for :-/
[01:13] <mdz> it's not in the help screens or anything?
[01:14] <Kamion> give me a minute
[01:15] <Kamion> mdz: yes, the cdimage build id should be on the first help screen too
[01:15] <mdz> perfect, thanks
[01:15] <Kamion> and for powerpc it appears in the yaboot boot message
[01:16] <mdz> updated Testing/Current
[01:21] <mdz> mvo: what do we need to change for the final release so that breezy update-manager starts notifying users?
[01:23] <mvo> mdz: edit the file http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release to include dapper (use http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-development) 
[01:23] <dholbach> sfllaw: still editing Testing/Current?
[01:24] <sfllaw> Nope.
[01:25] <sfllaw> I keep on forgetting that MoinMoin is a locking wiki.  :/
[01:25] <mvo> mdz: if we want a different name (no dapper but 6.06) we need another upload to breezy-updates :/ but that wouldn't be too bad, I could fix translations + a proxy issue this way
[01:26] <mdz> mvo: I've updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseChecklist , please check for accuracy and completeness
[01:26] <mdz> mvo: eek
[01:26] <mdz> mvo: yes, please do change it to "6.06 LTS"
[01:26] <mvo> mdz: ok
[01:41] <pitti> mvo: I opened the 'terminal' in update-manager while dist-upgrading to dapper; is the 'cannot open display:  at .../Debcfon/Frontend/Gnome.pm' warning something to worry about?
[01:42] <Kinnison> pitti: Does it say Debcfon or Debconf ?
[01:42] <pitti> mvo: (followed by "debconf: kann Frontend nicht initialisieren: Gnome (DISPLAY problem?), falling back to Dialog)
[01:42] <pitti> Kinnison: bah, Debconf of course
[01:45] <Kamion> woo, successful boot with lilo/xfs
[01:45] <Kamion> I thought lilo didn't work with initramfs at the moment, but evidently it does
[01:46] <dholbach> I have a machine with a usb disk only - it seems that installing when that disk is mounted (which is the default with the desktop CD), makes trouble (as it doesn't get automatically unmounted) - is that known already?
[01:46] <infinity> Kamion: No, it doesn't work with update-initramfs.
[01:46] <Kamion> ah
[01:46] <infinity> Kamion: ie: We don't re-run LILO, cause duplicating the 4MB of Perl from the linux-image postinst was a bit much.
[01:47] <infinity> Kamion: For edgy, I hope to split that out into a helper binary or something, so the logic lives in only one place.
[01:47] <Kamion> oh, if people have to run lilo by hand, big deal
[01:47] <Kamion> I can cope with that
[01:50] <infinity> Meh.  rsyncs still going.  So much for my copious bandwidth.
[01:50] <mjg59> infinity: When did you last sleep?
[01:50] <infinity> mjg59: Relatively recently, actually.
[01:50] <Kinnison> Where relatively recently == "march"
[01:55] <Kamion> mdz: lilo-installer fix a little more complicated than expected because apparently we haven't tested it since whatever it was that caused /dev/[hs] d[a-z]  to appear in d-i. Anyway, fix tested and confirmed working now ...
[01:55] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: there's no "current dvd" info on testing/current.
[01:56] <mdz> Kamion: I'm happy to eyeball it
[01:56] <Kamion> oops, I just tagged it in baz. oh well, I can untag if need be I suppose
[01:56] <mdz> Mithrandir: he's sleeping; just add it
[01:57] <Mithrandir> sleep?  what's that?
[01:58] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/lilo-installer-fixes.diff; may not make a lot of sense without context though (lilo-installer is a foetid steaming mess)
[01:58] <Kamion> ghastly device name parsing all over the place
[01:59] <Robot101> mjg59: lilo and grub installers neuter themselves on i386 apples even when you boot under bootcamp :-/
[01:59] <Robot101> mjg59: we had to install lilo manually, flagrant violation of the social contract. :)
[01:59] <mjg59> Robot101: grub makes crap bios calls, lilo should work if beaten with sticks
[01:59] <Kamion> sucks to be bootcamp
[02:00] <Robot101> yeah lilo works, we got it working
[02:00] <mjg59> And fglrx?
[02:00] <Kamion> if somebody fancies telling me how to *tell* that I'm running under bootcamp, I'm happy to adjust the installers
[02:00] <Robot101> worked out of the box
[02:01] <Kamion> well, lilo-installer anyway
[02:01] <mjg59> Kamion: dmi says you're on an apple and /sys/firmware/efi doesn't exist
[02:01] <Mithrandir> Kamion: is the "resizing partition" dialog supposed to give useful feedback?  It's been stuck on 0% for ten minutes now.
[02:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: known bug I'm afraid
[02:02] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 'k.  Appears to do something though, since the disk is chewing.
[02:02] <mjg59> (I'm almost out of battery, so may vanish at any point)
[02:02] <Robot101> we tweaked lilo-installer.isinstallable, but it probably failed to work probably because we didn't do something magic at partitioning phase
[02:03] <mjg59> You did skip the partitioning, right?
[02:03] <Robot101> yes
[02:03] <mjg59> Cool
[02:03] <mjg59> I've got an experimental patch for parted that ought to avoid the need to do that
[02:03] <mjg59> Robot101: So how much beer do I win?
[02:04] <Robot101> total's somewhere at 5 pints I think :)
[02:04] <mjg59> Hurrah
[02:04] <mjg59> Also, summer of crack
[02:04] <dholbach> Mithrandir: you're still editing the wiki? if so, can you set "ubuntu, desktop cd, erase disk, i386" to PASS
[02:04] <Kamion> mjg59: that's easy, then. fix checked in upstream
[02:04] <dholbach> Mithrandir: if not, I'll just do it myself
[02:04] <Kamion> but not for dapper now I feel
[02:04] <mjg59> Kamion: Fix for?
[02:04] <Robot101> mjg59: crack approved? :)
[02:04] <Mithrandir> dholbach: just finished.
[02:04] <mjg59> Robot101: Fully crack-compliant summer
[02:05] <dholbach> Mithrandir: ok, do it myself
[02:05] <Kamion> mjg59: lilo-installer.isinstallable to make it allow lilo-installer under boot camp
[02:05] <jdub> Robot101: there's a nice telepathy one in there
[02:05] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[02:05] <Robot101> jdub: yes :)
[02:05] <Kamion> mjg59: also elilo-installer got fixed, if you didn't see
[02:06] <Kamion> it turned out that the bug bit ia64 as well and somebody helpfully supplied a fix
[02:06] <mjg59> Hurrah battery at 0
[02:13] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: cool SoC project! :)
[02:14] <mdz> Kamion: I'm satisfied with lilo-installer-fixes.diff to the extent that I can understand it without context
[02:15] <mdz> mvo: I added update-manager in -updates to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeNamesToVersionNumbers
[02:15] <mdz> mvo: please get that change in soonest, to increase the chances of users having upgraded to it before they get the notification of dapper
[02:16] <HiddenWolf> mdz: will breezy-users get the notification on june 1st directly?
[02:17] <mdz> HiddenWolf: the next time that their system checks for updates
[02:17] <mvo> mdz: thanks, I work on it now (my network went down again, I had to call the internet compnay)
[02:17] <HiddenWolf> mdz: wheew, That's going to bring a few servers to it's knees, along with all the people wanting the latest and greatest asap. :)
[02:18] <imbrandon> ahh so lots of upgrades today
[02:18] <mdz> HiddenWolf: no more so than usual, I expect
[02:19] <HiddenWolf> mdz: you're going to promote the upgrade-option in front of users that might not follow the community closely, I'll bet you that'll cause extra upgrades. :)
[02:19] <HiddenWolf> </end noise>
[02:30] <zul> heylo
[02:32] <Kamion> mdz: thanks - uploaded
[02:37] <mdke> jdub: I'm still hungry
[02:37] <Riddell> Kamion: I'm still getting "RuntimeError: Install failed with exit code 1" on todays kubuntu desktop CD
[02:46] <dholbach> seb128: still editing Testing/Current?
[02:46] <seb128> dholbach: I clicked like 4 seconds ago so yes
[02:46] <dholbach> ok
[02:46] <seb128> a min
[02:46] <dholbach> sure
[02:47] <seb128> dholbach: done
[02:47] <dholbach> ok
[02:47] <dholbach> hum, still says you are editing
[02:47] <dholbach> ah now it'S happy
[02:49] <dholbach> i'll test the dvd i386 live session now and then go out for something to eat
[02:54] <janimo> dholbach: hi, do you know what package provides the human cursor theme? I cannot find it anymore and I think it was just working a while ago
[02:54] <dholbach> ubuntu-artwork
[02:55] <janimo> ah, so not a separate package.... thanks
[02:55] <Riddell_> Kamion: I'm still getting "RuntimeError: Install failed with exit code 1" on todays kubuntu desktop CD
[03:00] <jdub> seb128: http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/tintin-creators-anniversary/2006/05/24/1148150265203.html
[03:02] <zul> ooo...tintin
[03:03] <Kamion> Riddell: the real error will be in /var/log/installer/syslog
[03:04] <Kamion> Riddell: is that with ubiquity 1.0.5?
[03:04] <Riddell> Kamion: nope, still on 1.0.4
[03:04] <Kamion> well then :)
[03:04] <Kamion> can I see the syslog?
[03:04] <Riddell> Kamion: it's the same as on the bug report I made last night
[03:04] <Riddell> "The link /vmlinux is a damaged link"
[03:06] <Riddell> I'll update to 1.0.5 and try again
[03:06] <Kamion> Riddell: I closed that bug :-)
[03:06] <Kamion> (with a fix in 1.0.5)
[03:06] <Riddell> right, I must have misread I though it said 1.0.4
[03:08] <Kamion> I'd tried to fix a similar bug in 1.0.4 but got it wrong. Should be really fixed this time.
[03:08] <Kamion> s/a similar/the same/
[03:15] <Kamion> mdz: bug 46065 - what do you think? alien's in ship
[03:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46065 in alien "Please sync Alien from Debian/Unstable" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46065
[03:16] <mdz> Kamion: I'm indifferent
[03:16] <Kamion> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=352810
[03:16] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 352810 in alien "Subject: unpacking RPM changes permissions of working directory" [Normal,Closed]  
[03:16] <mdz> so long as it builds
[03:16] <mdz> I don't think it should be in ship
[03:16] <Kamion> it's a dep of lsb
[03:17] <mdz> yes, it is
[03:17] <Kamion> lsb-core even
[03:17] <mdz> but for pretty silly reasons
[03:17] <Kamion> we could kick all of lsb out of ship; but perhaps in edgy? :)
[03:17] <mdz> I don't think we can claim to be able to usefull install LSB packages that way, just by having lsb installed
[03:17] <Kamion> mm
[03:18] <pitti> mvo: ping
[03:18] <mdz> Kamion: yes, I'm saying I don't think it's important for it to be there in the long term, not that we should rip it out right this second ;-)
[03:18] <Kamion> (we don't even have all of lsb there any more; lsb-desktop pulled in qt4)
[03:18] <mdz> mdz != sabdfl
[03:18] <Kamion> haha
[03:19] <jdub> Kamion: qt4? wow, it's not even properly LSB yet (let alone sensibly optional)
[03:19] <Kamion> sorry, qt3
[03:20] <jdub> ahr
[03:20] <mvo> pitti: hello
[03:20] <pitti> mvo: u-m finished :)
[03:21] <pitti> mvo: however, as last thing it gave me a dialog box 'these packages are not supported any more...'
[03:21] <pitti> mvo: and said that these were going to be removed in the next step
[03:21] <pitti> mvo: however, there was no 'next step'
[03:21] <mvo> pitti: wasn't there something like "will be removed if you don't have universe"?
[03:22] <pitti> mvo: it might have mentioned universe, yes
[03:22] <pitti> mvo: what will remove it?
[03:22] <pitti> i. e. what is this 'next step'?
[03:22] <mvo> pitti: finding obsolete packages and removing them - this usually works
[03:23] <pitti> mvo: when is that done? it wasn't done in that u-m session
[03:23] <pitti> and I don't have universe
[03:23] <mvo> oh 
[03:23] <pitti> mvo: btw, do you want bug reports for the issues we discussed at the phone? or are you fine without?
[03:23] <seb128> pitti: when is next language pack update due? we still have no translation for the panel help submenu :/
[03:23] <mvo> pitti: can you send me the log please? and a bugreport would b nice
[03:24] <pitti> seb128: not yet decided; whenever we have a reasonable amount of translations, I guess
[03:24] <pitti> seb128: daily packs are generated at least, for people to test
[03:24] <ivoks> um... there's one bug i todays dailybuild
[03:24] <seb128> pitti: your next daily build should have them though?
[03:24] <seb128> pitti: ok, fair enough
[03:24] <ivoks> i think it's solved now, but would like to check, anyway...
[03:24] <pitti> seb128: well, that depends on the translators :)
[03:25] <ivoks> infinity: here?
[03:25] <seb128> pitti: I did the french translation just after the package got published monday
[03:25] <infinity> ivoks: Doing installation tests, but yeah.  I'm around.
[03:25] <infinity> ivoks: 'Sup?
[03:25] <pitti> seb128: ok, can you please check today's langpacks then?
[03:25] <ivoks> infinity: i noticed one ugly bug today in today's daily build
[03:25] <ivoks> infinity: grub not being installed in mbr
[03:26] <ivoks> infinity: i saw new version has something about that in changelog
[03:26] <seb128> pitti: I've just tried a daily desktop CD install, I'll try with your daily build now
[03:26] <infinity> ivoks: Which CD, and how did you install?
[03:26] <ivoks> infinity: -daily
[03:26] <ivoks> 20060524
[03:26] <pitti> mvo: which log?
[03:26] <mvo> pitti: /var/log/dist-upgrade*.log
[03:26] <pitti> seb128: today's packs are not yet finished
[03:26] <ivoks> infinity: normal install from -desktop
[03:26] <ivoks> infinity: i needed to chroot and do update-grub
[03:27] <pitti> mvo: you want a bug about not removing obsolete packages?
[03:27] <infinity> ivoks: So, a ubiquity install?
[03:27] <ivoks> infinity: yes
[03:27] <infinity> ivoks: You want Kamion, then. :)
[03:27] <infinity> Kamion: <poke>
[03:27] <pitti> mvo: I'm afraid there's little more I can tell you about this initial dialog issue
[03:27] <ivoks> oh :)
[03:27] <ivoks> infinity: i allways mix you two :)
[03:27] <infinity> I do too.
[03:27] <ivoks> :)
[03:28] <Kamion> ivoks: /var/log/installer/syslog
[03:29] <ivoks> Kamion: i can't get it now :(
[03:29] <Riddell> Kamion: 1.0.5 installs without problems
[03:29] <Kamion> ivoks: how come?
[03:29] <Kamion> Riddell: great, thanks
[03:29] <ivoks> Kamion: but i will as soon as I get my hands on that machine (maybe later this evening)
[03:29] <ivoks> Kamion: long story...
[03:29] <mvo> pitti: a bugreport about the whole experience is ok too, I'll sort it out then 
[03:29] <Kamion> ivoks: OK, I'll be unable to fix most problems then though
[03:29] <pitti> mvo: alright
[03:29] <Kamion> ivoks: the changelog in today's upload is not relevant to you
[03:30] <ivoks> Kamion: ok
[03:31] <ivoks> Kamion: sorry, 'm not much of a help :/
[03:32] <Kamion> it should have popped up an install crash dialog if it didn't get as far as installing grub
[03:32] <ivoks> nothing poped up
[03:32] <Kamion> or did it display some other kind of error message?
[03:32] <ivoks> no, nothing
[03:32] <Kamion> that's very odd
[03:32] <ivoks> Kamion: um...
[03:33] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[03:33] <ivoks> Kamion: where does grub get installed anyway?
[03:33] <Kamion> ivoks: MBR of first hard disk
[03:33] <ivoks> Kamion: ok, that explains it...
[03:33] <ivoks> Kamion: sorry to bother you :)
[03:33] <Kamion> well, sometimes, it depends
[03:33] <seb128> s#article#url
[03:33] <Kamion> actually it might have installed it to the MBR of the second hard disk, if you have two and are installing on the second
[03:33] <jdub> seb128: :-)
[03:34] <Kamion> which would mean you'd have to teach your BIOS to boot it
[03:34] <ivoks> Kamion: i had two first disks
[03:34] <ivoks> Kamion: sda and hda
[03:34] <ivoks> Kamion: it installed it on hda
[03:34] <Kamion> ah, that can cause confusion, yes
[03:34] <ivoks> Kamion: and my system was on sda
[03:34] <Kamion> the alternate install CD has similar badness sometimes
[03:34] <ivoks> Kamion: ok, something to think about for edgy? :)
[03:34] <Kamion> it's on the list, yes ...
[03:34] <ivoks> ok
[03:36] <pitti> mvo: in your dist-upgrade tests, can you please check if language-support-en (and dependencies) are still installed after it? I don'thave OO.o help aany more, and l-s-en isn't isntalled
[03:36] <pitti> mvo: I'll file a bug about that as well
[03:38] <ogra> infinity, can you trigger a livefs build for edubuntu please (hoping there isnt *again* a package breaking it today)
[03:39] <infinity> ogra: Sure.
[03:39] <ogra> thanks 
[03:39] <infinity> Can someone explain to me how dpkg can think I have a package installed twice?
[03:40] <infinity> Oh, nevermind.  My bad.  Broken regex on my part.
[03:40] <infinity> Phew.
[03:40] <ogra> :)
[03:41] <infinity> ogra: livefses building.
[03:41] <ogra> thanks :)
[03:42] <ogra> i hope totem wont break it 
[03:42] <ogra> yesterdays was killed off by a dia build 
[03:43] <ogra> doko !!
[03:43] <ogra> alive !!!
[03:43] <pitti> mvo: three bugs filed and added to Testing/Current
[03:44] <pitti> hi doko 
[03:44] <doko> hi. not very alive
[03:44] <ogra> montezumas revenge ? 
[03:45] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[03:45] <ogra> doko, or only jetlagged ? 
[03:46] <doko> no, some "souvenirs" I didn't want to bring back
[03:46] <ogra> ouch
[03:46] <pitti> doko: the same plague as sabdfl has? :)
[03:50] <Riddell> dholbach: kubuntu book chapter ready, where do I put it in the package?
[03:50] <Riddell> heno: did you get anywhere with reducing the image sizes?
[03:50] <Riddell> mdke, jono: FYI ^^
[03:50] <heno> yep, can I email you the files again?
[03:50] <jono> oh cool :)
[03:50] <Riddell> heno: sure
[03:53] <heno> Riddell: done. From 2.7MB to 1MB
[03:53] <Riddell> heno, dholbach: I take it the Screenshot.png files are the space taking placeholder ones that I can get rid of?
[03:53] <Riddell> heno: nifty, how did you manage that?
[03:53] <heno> Riddell: yes you can remove those
[03:54] <heno> Riddell: used Gimp to index them to 256 colours
[03:54] <heno> some I had to leave alone, or they would look crap
[03:54] <Riddell> so that's a space saving of about 3MB, nice
[03:54] <heno> but most are fine
[03:54] <heno> in total on the whole book, yes
[03:55] <mdke> Riddell, heno: nice one
[04:01] <mdz> Mithrandir: any joy with oo.o?
[04:03] <fabbione> who remember the ppc/OF sintax to boot from the net on the fly??? something like: boot net:<ip_of_the_server>,<file> ?
[04:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: I handed it off to infinity a couple of hours ago so he can build it on a buildd.  Unsure what the progress is
[04:04] <Mithrandir> infinity: ^^?
[04:04] <iwj> What's the official minimum disk space for Dapper ?
[04:05] <Keybuk> 2GB
[04:05] <iwj> Excellent.
[04:06] <ogra> infinity, my livefs logs look a bit weird (like they were copied while still being written)
[04:06] <ogra> infinity, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/livefs-build-logs/dapper/edubuntu/20060524.1/
[04:08] <Kamion> that can happen, yes.
[04:08] <lemsx1> is there any new kernel coming? -23 just gave me a ugly crash in an IBM R51 laptop. the system boots fine but one of the modules doesn't load
[04:08] <lemsx1> i'll copy dmesg to a remote box in a second
[04:09] <ogra> ok, so i'll wait until someone notifies me they are done before starting an iso
[04:09] <ogra> lemsx1, kernel freeze was on 18th
[04:10] <lemsx1> ogra: ouch. well, i don't really understand this error. let me post for you guys to see it
[04:10] <lemsx1> ogra: no kernel panic though
[04:11] <ogra> and if a module doesnt get loded its more likely udev's fault
[04:13] <mjg59> lemsx1: "One of the modules doesn't load" isn't a helpful report
[04:13] <Keybuk> ogra: no, it's more likely the kernel's fault
[04:13] <Keybuk> or whatever package provides that module
[04:14] <mjg59> lemsx1: Best thing to do is file a bug against linux-source-2.6.15 with the failure
[04:14] <ogra> Keybuk, ok
[04:15] <lemsx1> mjg59: thanks. almost there
[04:15] <jdub> dear mjg59, DMA works correctly on my machine, thank you, love jdub
[04:15] <lemsx1> mjg59: i'm getting the system to boot normally now. i'll do a proper report
[04:18] <Keybuk> jdub: is it SATA? :)
[04:19] <jdub> haha, no
[04:21] <carlos> pitti: I need to leave now, but I guess the language packs are completely ready, right?
[04:21] <carlos> pitti: did you see the report?
[04:21] <pitti> carlos: building is still in progress, but report should be there, yes
[04:21] <OdyX> fabbione or BenC: on kubuntu-devel, we went to ask ourselves why SysRQ is enabled per default. Isn't it a security issue ?
[04:22] <carlos> pitti: no missing domains from Rosetta and I think all domains you told me to remove are now removed
[04:22] <pitti> carlos: RRRRRRROCK
[04:22] <Riddell> carlos: is konversation being exported?
[04:22] <carlos> Riddell: it should be there now, yes
[04:22] <mjg59> OdyX: If someone has physical access to the console, then in general they can own the system
[04:22] <fabbione> OdyX: no
[04:22] <Riddell> cool
[04:22] <BenC> OdyX: the only reason I know of is "it's always been on"
[04:22] <pitti> carlos: kdgantt-disabled looks a bit fishy, but the hell with it...
[04:23] <carlos> oh, am I exporting it??
[04:23] <carlos> pitti: it should not be there
[04:23] <OdyX> OK. Thanks
[04:23] <BenC> and SysRQ is not more of a security issue than the power button
[04:23] <carlos> there are two kdgantt and I choose to disable the less translated
[04:23] <fabbione> OdyX: nothing stops you to remove the power from the machine and starts it in init 1 once you are so close to the keyboard
[04:23] <OdyX> fabbione: what about "serial distant keyboards" ? (Or I miss something ? )
[04:24] <mjg59> I don't think sysrq is anything other than a (very) local DoS
[04:24] <mjg59> OdyX: If they've got access to a remote serial console, then (again) they can probably 0wn you
[04:24] <fabbione> OdyX: the what????
[04:24] <mjg59> OdyX: What's the security risk?
[04:24] <OdyX> fabbione: nothing then
[04:24] <mjg59> OdyX: The worst sysrq can do is reboot the machine or kill the tasks on the current tty
[04:25] <OdyX> mjg59: Sure
[04:26] <mjg59> OdyX: So, why is it potentially a security risk?
[04:26] <OdyX> Thanks for convincing answers
[04:26] <carlos> pitti: it should not be with next export
[04:26] <mjg59> OdyX: What was the original concern?
[04:27] <OdyX> mjg59: more wondering than real issue
[04:27] <Keybuk> is there any particular reason the edubuntu CDs are still called "install" and "live" ?
[04:27] <OdyX> mjg59: some think that it's security issue, some don't
[04:27] <ogra> Keybuk, yep
[04:27] <Kamion> Keybuk: ogra asked for them to be
[04:27] <mjg59> OdyX: Why do they think it's a security issue?
[04:28] <mjg59> OdyX: It's possible that we're wrong - it would be nice to know what the actual concern is
[04:28] <Kamion> Keybuk: desktop isn't the primary installation method for Edubuntu, so "alternate" doesn't make sense there
[04:28] <ogra> Keybuk, we'll only ship i386 install and thats our default CD 
[04:28] <OdyX> mjg59: [16:24:18]  <seaLne> unless its physically secured and the software is secured
[04:29] <mjg59> OdyX: I'm afraid I don't understand?
[04:29] <OdyX> mjg59: well. Idea would be to have a server without access to power, just a keyboard and a monitor. Server is in secure place, but cables go out for keyboard & screen
[04:29] <OdyX> I dunno, just imagine.
[04:29] <OdyX> :D
[04:30] <mjg59> OdyX: You can disable sysrq at boot time
[04:30] <OdyX> mjg59: ?
[04:30] <OdyX> mjg59: on boot line ?
[04:30] <jordi> MDZ
[04:30] <mjg59> OdyX: Put kernel/sysrq=0 in /etc/sysctl.conf
[04:31] <OdyX> mjg59: OK. Thanks
[04:31] <fabbione> OdyX: if a server is on the network is not secure. if a server has power is not secure. if there are cables coming out is not secure. if the disks are replaced the data are not secured. if you don't slam it in a 2x2x2mt cube of concrete is not secure (a nuclear blast might cause DoS)... if
[04:32] <OdyX> fabbione: OK OK OK. I agree.
[04:32] <OdyX> :D
[04:32] <nomed> janimo, around ?
[04:32] <janimo> nomed: yes
[04:33] <nomed> i'm going to test now a patch i would sent for libxfcegui4
[04:33] <nomed> do u think it's a good idea ?
[04:34] <nomed> i mean ... do u know what it means ? :P
[04:34] <nomed> there are many xfce pkges that depends on it ...
[04:35] <janimo> nomed, no problem, since it does not change APIs
[04:35] <janimo> it just fixes icon names right?
[04:35] <nomed> yes
[04:35] <janimo> anyway please post it to bugs.xfce.org
[04:35] <nomed> yep ..
[04:35] <janimo> so they take it and we make sure they agree with the namings
[04:35] <nomed> i'd like if you could take a look before i post it ..
[04:36] <nomed> to get something really good i'll need to patch xfdesktop4 too
[04:36] <janimo> nomed, ok send it to me I'll have a look tonight
[04:36] <janimo> do you need to send a patch to tango for the mixer icon?
[04:36] <nomed> i test it and then i'll send it to by mail 
[04:36] <janimo> or just xfce?
[04:36] <nomed> xfce
[04:37] <nomed> to tango for some other stuff
[04:37] <nomed> ready that too ..
[04:37] <mdz> jordi: you are dead to me
[04:37] <mdz> especially right now
[04:37] <nomed> upgrading the system .. and then i'll test it too
[04:37] <Kinnison> iwj: Shall I take a couple of the kubuntu desktop cd tests from you?
[04:37] <jordi> mdz: uh!
[04:38] <jordi> Ok, I'll keep the adsl secrets to myself.
[04:38] <nomed> btw: xfce4-dev-tools should have better dependencies ...
[04:40] <iwj> Kinnison: Up to you.  Unfortunately my rsync seems to be taking longer than I'd hoped.
[04:40] <iwj> Kinnison: if you want to take some, take the `alternate CD' ones.
[04:40] <Kinnison> okay, I'll do alternate
[04:44] <iwj> I had to dig a disk out of the junkpile.
[04:44] <iwj> This download is _too slow_.
[04:45] <Keybuk> *giggles*
[04:45] <Keybuk> "A new medium has been detected.  What do you want to do?"
[04:45] <Keybuk> why is "Ask her to tell me my fortune" in the list?
[04:46] <Treenaks> Keybuk: There should be buttons with text-entry widgets in them for stuff like that
[04:47] <Keybuk> holy cow
[04:47] <Keybuk> how did KDE escape launchpad integration
[04:47] <lemsx1> mjg59: perhaps this oops is related to ipw2200 ... bug 46372
[04:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46372 in linux-source-2.6.15 "module loading crashing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46372
[04:48] <danimo> BenC: ping?
[04:48] <BenC> danimo: pong
[04:49] <Riddell> Keybuk: lack of time
[04:50] <danimo> BenC: still having issues with recording with intel hda chipset. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+ticket/800 isn't quite it, but arecord won't record anything. any idea how to hunt that one down?
[04:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 800 in malone "Security-related bugs should not have to always be private" [Normal,Rejected]  
[04:50] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: hi, just finished an install with the install iso
[04:51] <danimo> huh? wrong bug
[04:51] <BenC> danimo: likely talk to crimsun, he is the one who handles most of the sound stuff
[04:51] <danimo> ok
[04:51] <BenC> he may even know about it already
[04:51] <danimo> crimsun: so hi there, any idea?
[04:53] <mjg59> lemsx1: No, it's nothing to do with ipw2200
[04:53] <mjg59> That's the infra-red system exploding
[04:53] <Keybuk> Riddell: how do I uncomment universe in adept?
[04:54] <Riddell> Keybuk: right click
[04:54] <Keybuk> Riddell: bzzzt
[04:54] <Keybuk> PowerBook
[04:54] <Keybuk> Riddell: how do I uncomment universe in adept on a PowerBook :p
[04:54] <Kinnison> right click using the bizarre chording?
[04:55] <Keybuk> I've tried every bucky bit I can think of, and can't get a right-click-menu
[04:55] <danimo> BenC: away since 9 hours, bad luck :)
[04:55] <Kinnison> it's somewhere in the top right isn't it?
[04:55] <Keybuk> Kinnison: that's just F11, F12, etc.
[04:55] <Keybuk> F12 is Eject
[04:56] <Keybuk> which seems a bad thing to push on a Live CD :)
[04:56] <mdz> Riddell: are you making progress on your CD tests?
[04:57] <Riddell> mdz: I am, but looking at Testing/Current I'm down for DVD testing, should I be doing that instead?
[04:58] <rpedro> hello
[04:58] <infinity> ogra: Yeah, looks like the log mirror did happen when the logs were still in progress.  The images built fine, though (and the logd on the buildds are fine)
[04:59] <infinity> ogra: s/logd/logs/
[04:59] <ogra> oh, already done :)
[04:59] <rpedro> is it a known bug that opening and closing nested 'drawers' wll hang the gnome-panel?
[04:59] <ogra> i didnt have the terminal focused, thanks !
[04:59] <rpedro> can't seem to find anything on launchpad.net
[05:01] <lmanul> sfllaw: Hi ! Do you know when the next Hug day is planned (I want to mention it in the next "Ubuntu Desktop News") ?
[05:03] <ogra> WOAH, i even have space for more languages on the liveCDs
[05:03] <mdz> Riddell: Kubuntu is higher priority
[05:03] <Kinnison> ogra: You have room? On an edubuntu cd?
[05:04] <mdz> Riddell: I don't see many results on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentKubuntu yet though
[05:04] <pitti> ogra: please stick to the list mentioned in langpacksize.txt
[05:04] <ogra> Kinnison, only live
[05:04] <mdz> Riddell: oh, I see, Simon created a separate table down below
[05:04] <mdz> Riddell: so we should get rid of CurrentKubuntu
[05:04] <ogra> pitti, my audience is a pretty different one, i'd like to use the langs the users use
[05:04] <Kinnison> ogra: aah
[05:05] <pitti> ogra: hm, true; well, do as you wish
[05:05] <mdz> Riddell: you should be recording your test results in the table, for whichever cases you've tested
[05:05] <ogra> pitti, but indeed i'll use your list top down 
[05:05] <infinity> dholbach: <poke>
[05:05] <ogra> s/top down/top to bottom/
[05:05] <Riddell> mdz: doing
[05:06] <dholbach> infinity: pong
[05:07] <dholbach> infinity: thanks
[05:07] <infinity> dholbach: I see you and I interspersed for desktop CD stuff on amd64, which means I get to burn two CDs instead of 1... Want to trade all of one for all of the other? :)
[05:07] <hunt0r> hi all I try to install ubuntu dapper drake for a while now but it hangs on the boot process with this message everytime: cs: IO port probe 0x100-0x3af
[05:07] <dholbach> infinity: however you like it
[05:08] <dholbach> infinity: which one do you like?
[05:08] <mjg59> hunt0r: The boot process of the installed system or the boot process of the installer?
[05:08] <hunt0r> I want to install ubuntu on an laptop but it hangs up wehen it tries to load the pcmcia drivers on any linux distro but i don't know to turn off pcmcia
[05:08] <infinity> dholbach: Well, I've been using d-i for the last few hours with server CD testing, so how about I switch to do some desktop stuff?
[05:08] <hunt0r> mjg59: on the boot process
[05:08] <infinity> dholbach: And you can take amd64/alternate stuff.
[05:08] <dholbach> infinity: fine
[05:08] <sfllaw> lmanul: Hug Day has sort of been dropped.  dholbach and I were too busy to "organize" anything this week.  And by next week, it will be sort of late.  :)
[05:08] <pygi> dholbach, congrats on mentoring :)
[05:09] <hunt0r> mjg59: on the boot prcess of the installer sry
[05:09] <mjg59> hunt0r: Ok, thanks
[05:09] <dholbach> pygi: i didn't have a chance yet to look at the result.
[05:09] <infinity> dholbach: (I also have a bug that I wanted to see if it got fixed on Zofia's machine, so this'll work well)
[05:09] <mjg59> Kamion: ^ - any ideas?
[05:09] <pygi> dholbach, doesn't matter :) You are that "Safety boat" :)
[05:09] <dholbach> cool
[05:10] <hunt0r> mjg59: do you know what I could do?
[05:10] <mjg59> Does pcmciautils have the same io-port exclusions as pcmcia-cs did?
[05:10] <mjg59> hunt0r: Right now, probably nothing I'm afraid
[05:10] <Keybuk> mjg59: should have
[05:10] <Kamion> Keybuk: we set F11 to middle-click and F12 to right-click
[05:11] <hunt0r> mjg59: is there no whay to tell linux so it does not try to probe these IO ports with a boot paramter?
[05:11] <Kamion> mjg59: we have all your exclusions; upstream took them
[05:11] <mjg59> hunt0r: Not that I know of right now
[05:11] <Keybuk> Kamion: I argue the F12 is a bug, because that's the Eject key on a PowerBook
[05:11] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok
[05:11] <hunt0r> mjg59: ok thy anyway :(
[05:11] <hunt0r> *thx
[05:11] <Kamion> Keybuk: there was no other choice that was any better; we went through pretty much every available option
[05:11] <Kamion> Keybuk: and not on every powerbook
[05:12] <Kamion> hunt0r: you could try adding the 'hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false' boot argument to the installer
[05:12] <Keybuk> Kamion: why not use the same that Mac OS X does?
[05:12] <Kamion> hunt0r: though it depends exactly where it's hanging
[05:12] <Keybuk> Apple-Click or whatever it is
[05:12] <nomed> janimo, have u seen bug #46375 ?
[05:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46375 in xfce4-session "Firefox doesn't autostart in saved session" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46375
[05:12] <mjg59> Keybuk: Collides with things that use meta-left-click
[05:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: IIRC the kernel doesn't give us that option
[05:12] <nomed> it does make sense ..
[05:13] <Kamion> Keybuk: you can change it in /etc/sysctl.conf if you don't like it
[05:13] <Keybuk> mjg59: isn't Meta Alt?
[05:13] <Kamion> Keybuk: sometimes
[05:13] <Kamion> depends on your keymap
[05:13] <mjg59> Keybuk: If it's not meta, it's alt
[05:13] <Keybuk> mjg59: wouldn't Alt be Alt? :)
[05:13] <Keybuk> (nb: isn't X fun?)
[05:13] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks
[05:13] <Kamion> Keybuk: again, depends on your keymap
[05:13] <mjg59> nomed: I don't believe firefox has proper session support
[05:14] <hunt0r> Kamion: tried that alrady well it hangs directly after "Uncompressing Linux.... Ok, booting the kernel. If I leave the quiet option in the boot loader
[05:14] <mjg59> Keybuk: On pc102, alt is meta because more unix applications use meta-foo than alt-foo (IIRC)
[05:14] <Mithrandir> mjg59: it has some if you install sessionsaver, though it's still not very good.
[05:15] <Keybuk> I must admit that I'm buying this "Apples are the most user friendly computers in the world"
[05:15] <mjg59> I'm not
[05:15] <mjg59> MacOS made me start throwing things last night
[05:15] <Keybuk> all of the menus in MacOS X use symbols in the shortcuts that don't appear on any key on the keyboard
[05:15] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:15] <Keybuk> then there's this "hold down C and turn widdershins within 2 seconds of the bong" type crap
[05:16] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ../z/usr/share/applications > grep ^Name ooo-calc.desktop
[05:16] <Mithrandir> Name=OpenOffice.org Spreadsheet
[05:16] <mjg59> Last night I discovered that a (non-Apple) terminal app asks me if I'm sure I want to close the terminal
[05:16] <Mithrandir> mdz: ^^
[05:16] <Mithrandir> mjg59: pterm does it, iirc.
[05:16] <OculusAquilae> pitti: ping
[05:16] <mjg59> After I've clicked "Restart" in the system menu, then confirmed that by clicking "restart" in the popup
[05:17] <pitti> OculusAquilae: here, but 100% busy
[05:17] <Mithrandir> mdz: in other words, my patch worked.
[05:17] <mjg59> If I didn't want to close the terminal, why would I have asked to restart the computer *twice*?
[05:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: excellent, thanks
[05:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: is an uploadable build in progress?
[05:17] <OculusAquilae> pitti: ok, I'll ask you later
[05:17] <seb128> Mithrandir: patch for what?
[05:17] <infinity> mdz: Is that a go-ahead for me tp upload Mithrandir's signed source?
[05:17] <Mithrandir> seb128: .desktop files in ooo
[05:17] <seb128> Mithrandir: is there a place where we can translate them?
[05:18] <infinity> mdz: And the i386 binaries will follow within ~30 mins.
[05:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: infinity has the signed source and now matching binaries.
[05:18] <Mithrandir> seb128: no idea.
[05:18] <lmanul> sfllaw: All right, no Hug day then (sob) :-p
[05:18] <pitti> Kamion: hm, I created a single large vfat partition on my iBook, and I still don't get autoresize offered
[05:18] <Mithrandir> seb128: if you can get me patches, I can integrate them.
[05:18] <mdz> infinity: yes
[05:18] <mdz> Mithrandir: those binaries were built in a clean chroot?
[05:18] <Riddell> dholbach: are you uploading example-content?
[05:18] <seb128> Mithrandir: will do that now, do you have the english strings somewhere? Or are they the currently used ones?
[05:18] <infinity> mdz: They were build on terranova.
[05:18] <mdz> Riddell: he already did
[05:18] <infinity> mdz: Clean LP-buildd chroot.
[05:19] <mdz> infinity: excellent
[05:19] <Riddell> right
[05:20] <dholbach> Riddell: just built it locally
[05:20] <dholbach> one sec and i'll upload
[05:20] <Keybuk> holy crap, why does this thing have 10 partitions on it?
[05:22] <mdz> BenC: how are your CD tests going?
[05:22] <dholbach> Riddell: uploading
[05:22] <Keybuk> Kamion: ok, I'm stuck in the partitioner
[05:23] <Keybuk> I've resized the existing /dev/hda9 hfs+ partition
[05:23] <Keybuk> but I can't seem to use the free space, what do I need to click?
[05:24] <Kamion> pitti,Keybuk: can I get back to you both after I've finished with this apt-get.org crap please?
[05:24] <Keybuk> ah, s'ok, apparently I needed to delete the odd hda1 thru hda8
[05:24] <pitti> Kamion: yes, I'll play with it on my own; cfdisk and fdisk tell different things, I'll sort that out first
[05:25] <Keybuk> oh, wow, I crashed the installer
[05:26] <Riddell> Keybuk: which?
[05:26] <Keybuk> Riddell: yours
[05:26] <Riddell> Keybuk: 1.0.4? at the end of a ppc install?
[05:27] <Keybuk> no, during partitioning
[05:27] <Riddell> hmm
[05:27] <Riddell> Keybuk: anything I can recreate?
[05:28] <Keybuk> Riddell: I don't think I did anything unusual, deleted a couple of partitions, clicked "Create" and the entire partman bit vanished
[05:28] <Keybuk> bug 46387
[05:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46387 in ubiquity "partman crashed" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46387
[05:29] <Riddell> Keybuk: partman or qtparted?
[05:29] <Keybuk> whatever ubiquity on today's kubuntu live cd uses
[05:30] <Keybuk> it said something about partman in the crash dialog
[05:30] <BenC> mdz: Downloading still
[05:30] <Keybuk> it also seems to say qtparted in the traceback
[05:31] <Riddell> yeah, looks like it's trying to talk to a qtparted that's not there
[05:31] <Keybuk> right
[05:31] <Keybuk> it vanished
[05:31] <Keybuk> then I clicked "Go Back" hopefully
[05:34] <Riddell> qtparted has issues with ppc, although I've not seen it crash
[05:36] <Keybuk> cfdisk appears to have issues too
[05:36] <Keybuk> it just seems 10GB of free space
[05:37] <Mithrandir> seb128: I don't have the .diff.gz any more, ask infinity for it.
[05:37] <Mithrandir> seb128: sorry.
[05:37] <seb128> Mithrandir: np
[05:37] <seb128> infinity: around?
[05:38] <Keybuk> ya know, I'm going to back away from testing anything involving partitioning here I think <g>
[05:38] <mdz> BenC: are you not using rsync?
[05:38] <Keybuk> I don't really want a "honey, you'll never guess what happened to your PowerBook" moment ;)
[05:39] <Kinnison> Keybuk: you're messing with D's powerbook?
[05:39] <infinity> seb128: Yeah..
[05:40] <Keybuk> Kinnison: well, it's _mine_ in that I bought it ... but he's been using it
[05:40] <Keybuk> I have a spare laptop hard drive around somewhere, I think I'll use that
[05:40] <infinity> seb128: chinstrap:~adconrad/
[05:40] <Keybuk> I'd quite like some sex next month
[05:40] <seb128> infinity: you are going to do an openoffice upload? any way to push some .desktop translations to it?
[05:41] <infinity> seb128: I uploaded 20 minutes ago...
[05:41] <iwj> This test machine's slow boot process is very annoying.  I have a 30s window or so to catch the boot menu after several minutes of faff.
[05:42] <bddebian> Howdy
[05:43] <infinity> Kamion: Is there any plan to either A) compile "start.exe" with an Ubuntu logo, or B) include an ubuntu.ico and point autorun.inf to that?
[05:43] <infinity> Kamion: So that the CD has an Ubuntu icon when mounted in Windows...
[05:43] <BenC> mdz: no, I haven't kept things synced because of my b/w limits
[05:44] <BenC> so much per hour and such, and keeping all 6 of these machines at latest dapper already consumes a lot of that without some sort of syncronized updateing process
[05:45] <neuralis> BenC: we might get one through SoC.
[05:45] <infinity> seb128: If we're going to try to squeeze more translations in, they might have to come after RC... I'm kinda hoping the i386 build I'm doing right now will be the last for RC.
[05:45] <mdz> infinity: that'd be a heno question
[05:46] <mdz> infinity: we're doing langpack uploads post-RC, I suppose we can do oo.o too...
[05:46] <infinity> mdz: Right, I'll poke heno about it.  The current icon looks pretty underwhelming, and may be most Win32 users' very first introduction to us..
[05:47] <infinity> Oh, he's not idle.  Cool.
[05:47] <infinity> heno: *poke, poke, poke*
[05:47] <mdz> heno: has the WinFOSS been updated for "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS"?
[05:47] <heno> infinity: good point. an Ubuntu logo on start.exe would be better
[05:47] <heno> mdz: yes, last upload was a few days ago
[05:47] <infinity> heno: If recompiling start.exe with a new logo is too much of a pain, shipping the icon beside it and telling autorun.inf to use that is just as simple.  Your pick.
[05:47] <heno> it'sall quite fresh
[05:48] <infinity> heno: The advantage of my way is that we can use the same start.exe on all the CDs, but include a different icon for each derivative, if we want to get fancy.
[05:48] <heno> infinity: no, I can fix start.exe
[05:48] <heno> infinity: that's true
[05:48] <mdz> heno: great, thanks
[05:48] <heno> I guess we don't have a win32 icon file of the logo
[05:49] <infinity> heno: And for derivatives that don't ship start.exe, they should probably still have an autorun.ico for prettiness anyway.
[05:49] <heno> but I can make one
[05:49] <heno> infinity: yep
[05:49] <mdz> heno: could you add the relevant bits to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeNamesToVersionNumbers so that it's on the checklist for next time?
[05:49] <giftnudel> heno: 24x24 bitmap named .ico?
[05:49] <infinity> 32x32
[05:49] <giftnudel> even better ;)
[05:49] <infinity> Top left pixel is "transparent".
[05:49] <heno> giftnudel: yeah, bigger than 24
[05:50] <infinity> (whatever colour you place there)
[05:50] <Keybuk> doesn't it also have to be in .ICO format?
[05:50] <ogra> likely
[05:50] <infinity> Keybuk: .ico is a .bmp, with certain contraints.  Most of which are meaningless to anyone not running Win3.1, IIRC.
[05:51] <infinity> Anyhow, I can dig up a real .ico editor if someone sends me some suitable .bmps.
[05:51] <infinity> And I'll make sure they conform.
[05:51] <bddebian> Keybuk: Have a second for a quick question or too busy?
[05:51] <Keybuk> bddebian: sure
[05:51] <infinity> heno: ^^^
[05:51] <Mithrandir> infinity: or just use icoutils?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> which, hey, happens to be maintained by Colin
[05:52] <bddebian> Keybuk: Should binary libilluminate6 still be in the archive?  illuminator source now provides libilluminate7?
[05:53] <Keybuk> bddebian: no
[05:53] <nomed> janimo, ping me when available 
[05:53] <bddebian> Keybuk: Can you remove it?
[05:53] <Keybuk> I think someone just did under me
[05:53] <heno> mdz: sorry I don't follow about the code names page. are you talking about the icon on the winfoss CD or example content?
[05:53] <Keybuk> hmm, no, I can't see it in the archive
[05:54] <bddebian> Keybuk: OK, thx.  Sorry to bother you.
[05:54] <Keybuk> bddebian: apt-cache policy libilluminate6
[05:55] <mdz> heno: I'm talking about any references to the version of Ubuntu in the WinFOSS
[05:55] <infinity> Woo, I broke ubiquity!  Do I get a prize?
[05:56] <bddebian> Keybuk: Sorry, typo...
[05:56] <ogra> infinity, a tear from Kamion probably
[05:56] <heno> mdz: OH, I see. pretty sure is says '6.06' everywhere but not 'LTS', I'll trawl through it
[05:56] <bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~$ apt-cache policy libluminate6
[05:56] <bddebian> libluminate6:
[05:56] <bddebian>   Installed: (none)
[05:56] <bddebian>   Candidate: 0.9.0-1
[05:56] <bddebian>   Version table:
[05:56] <bddebian>      0.9.0-1 0
[05:56] <bddebian>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages
[05:57] <Keybuk> bddebian: 
[05:57] <Keybuk> -- dapper/universe hppa deps on libluminate6:
[05:57] <Keybuk> illuminator-demo
[05:57] <Keybuk> libluminate-dev
[05:57] <mdz> heno: thanks, and as you do, add them to the wiki so we have a list for next time
[05:58] <heno> ok, got it
[05:58] <bddebian> Keybuk: But the source for those provides libluminate7 now?
[05:58] <Keybuk> bddebian: then I'd start by investigating why those haven't built on hppa yet
[05:58] <infinity> bddebian: Which means illuminator was FTBFS on hppa. Looking now.
[05:58] <bddebian> Keybuk: Just shut me up if this is a pointless conversation
[05:59] <dholbach> can somebody take the "Alternate CD, OEM" amd64 installation from me? I never did an OEM install and would prefer to look at some of the icon bugs instead of learning how to do it
[05:59] <Keybuk> infinity: "Currently building"
[05:59] <infinity> Keybuk: I know, I just kicked it back from failed.
[05:59] <Keybuk> Status:  	Currently building
[05:59] <Keybuk> Date requested: 	2006-05-03 10:40:39 BST
[05:59] <infinity> Keybuk: You're TOO SLOW.
[05:59] <jono> dholbach: did you say you have converted Ch7 to HTML?
[05:59] <Keybuk> infinity: heh, chroot fuckage?
[05:59] <dholbach> jono: I think Riddell did that
[05:59] <infinity> Keybuk: No, transient build-dep fuckage, I think.
[05:59] <jono> ahhhh, so its done?
[06:00] <dholbach> jono: yeah
[06:00] <jono> nice
[06:00] <infinity> Keybuk: There's no such thing as chroot fuckage in the new world order.
[06:00] <Keybuk> infinity: I keep forgetting that
[06:00] <Riddell> jono: I did, and I sent it to dholbach who says he's uploaded it
[06:00] <dholbach> yeah
[06:00] <jono> oh cool
[06:01] <jono> just letting the publisher know :)
[06:01] <jono> thanks chaps
[06:02] <infinity> Oh, the build-dep breakage wasn't so transient, though..
[06:02] <Riddell> jono: although I see an e-mail from Nancy Hendryx which says that's not the final version
[06:03] <bddebian> infinity: Something else broken?
[06:03] <Riddell> I'm not to bothered about getting the exact final version though, especially for RC
[06:03] <jono> Riddell: wise
[06:03] <Keybuk> infinity: if that had built, I'm assuming libluminate6 would have shown up in outdate.txt?
[06:03] <infinity> Keybuk: No, outdate.txt is from britney, and we only run britney on main. :/
[06:04] <infinity> Keybuk: universe has no such luxury.
[06:04] <infinity> Keybuk: (We really need a daily universe britney run)
[06:04] <Keybuk> ah, we don't have any girls that check for binaries not built by any source?
[06:04] <infinity> archive-cruft-check.py may do something interesting.
[06:04] <elmo> possibly not
[06:04] <elmo> in dak, that check isn't enabled by default
[06:04] <elmo> because Binaries in Sources lies
[06:04] <ogra> infinity, bddebian, we had a dholbach instead of a britney back in older releases ;)
[06:05] <elmo> so it's part of --mode=full, and not --mode=daily.  I'm not sure if I bothered porting --mode=full checks
[06:05] <bddebian> ogra: :-)
[06:05] <infinity> It's best done with a combination of tools and manual parsing anyway.
[06:05] <infinity> Hence why the britney outdate.txt is helpful as a nudge.
[06:06] <Keybuk> is this a bug?  I chose "Erase Entire Disk" and it decided to just make /dev/hda3 and /dev/hda4 -- not 1 or 2
[06:06] <Keybuk> well "partition #3" and "partition #4"
[06:07] <nomed> dholbach, around ?
[06:07] <dholbach> nomed: yes
[06:08] <nomed> i see the mixer icon is not in Tango anymore ..
[06:08] <nomed> but it is still on icon-naming
[06:08] <nomed> volume-control if i'm not wrong
[06:08] <infinity> bddebian: petsc is FTBFS on hppa (for real reasons, it would appear), hence illuminator can't build.  You lose.
[06:09] <nomed> do u think it could be included in tango-icon-common ?
[06:09] <nomed> i'll tell this to dobey too ..
[06:09] <nomed> i guess he forgot to remove it from the xml file
[06:09] <giftnudel> Keybuk: was it 1 and 2 before?
[06:09] <infinity> Keybuk: Probably best in this case to just remove illuminator (all binaries from source) on hppa, then remove the obsolete libs on the other arches.
[06:09] <bddebian> infinity: I lose?
[06:09] <infinity> Keybuk: Having it failed and not built from current source isn't all that helpful.
[06:10] <heno> infinity: I emailed you some logo files
[06:10] <Keybuk> giftnudel: the disk is empty
[06:10] <infinity> heno: Yay.
[06:10] <giftnudel> Keybuk: I'm indirectly asking about hidden things
[06:10] <Keybuk> giftnudel: hidden things?
[06:10] <giftnudel> hidden partitions
[06:10] <Keybuk> you can hide partitions?
[06:10] <bddebian> infinity: It's uninstallible because of unmet deps anyway isn't it?
[06:11] <heno> infinity: do you have an icon making program lined up, or should I look into it?
[06:11] <giftnudel> Keybuk: yes, the bios can at least on my notebook
[06:11] <Keybuk> where do they hide?  behind the battery?
[06:11] <giftnudel> Keybuk: below the harddrive
[06:11] <Keybuk> giftnudel: well, this drive was in a Toshiba until a few minutes ago
[06:11] <Keybuk> now it's in a PowerBook
[06:11] <infinity> heno: I have a WinXP box over there <points> where I'll be testing he icons, so I could edit them there too.
[06:11] <infinity> heno: If you want to play, though, Mithrandir suggested icoutils.
[06:12] <heno> infinity: ok, thanks
[06:12] <iwj> I still get that weirdness where some text-mode thing writes to the video memory during boot and strange pixels appear at the top of the CD boot screen.
[06:12] <iwj> I presume this is known about.
[06:12] <infinity> Kamion: Do you prefer I file ubiquity bugs blind, perhaps creating dupes, or give you a 20-second summary to see if you know about it already?
[06:12] <dholbach> nomed: please talk to andreasn and lapo, I'm very busy
[06:13] <nomed> ok
[06:13] <dholbach> nomed: if they update their bzr branches, I can do a release - I'm busy enough chasing other icons -- sorry
[06:13] <nomed> np
[06:13] <dholbach> thanks
[06:13] <infinity> Kamion: Essentially, deleted all the partitions on a disk, hit "next", crashed with "KeyError: 'hdc1'" (one of the partitions I'd just deleted)
[06:14] <Kamion> bddebian: we have a report for packages that aren't built any more
[06:14] <infinity> iwj: Is the system where you can reproduce this a desktop or a laptop?
[06:14] <infinity> iwj: It's somewhat known, and not a dapper target, but I'd like to fix it in edgy, if I could get my hands on hardware where it happens.
[06:14] <iwj> infinity: Desktop.
[06:14] <Kamion> infinity: archive-cruft-check.py was broken in mainline lp last I checked; but in any case be careful to run it with -n
[06:15] <iwj> If you have a bug number I'll subscribe to it and we can pick it up after dapper.
[06:15] <infinity> iwj: Don't suppose you'd want to lend me the video card?
[06:15] <Kamion> infinity: I'd rather possibly have dupes
[06:15] <iwj> It's onboard I'm afraid.
[06:15] <infinity> iwj: Or bring the box to Paris? :)
[06:15] <iwj> Box to Paris> not impossible.  I'm going by train.
[06:15] <infinity> Kamion: Alright.  I'll just file away, then.
[06:16] <infinity> Kamion: Also, I assume you're not likely to fix the "partition selector loops forever if you have removable rewriteable media installed" bug?
[06:16] <Kamion> infinity: ooh, if that happens when deleting partitions it might need to be sorted urgently
[06:16] <infinity> Kamion: I just tripped on that one, and it's already reported by someone else.
[06:16] <Kamion> infinity: bug#/
[06:16] <Kamion> ?
[06:17] <infinity> Kamion: #46389 is the looping thing.  I'll file the crash right now.
[06:17] <iwj> infinity: But if there's an easier way to do this than lugging a beige box around as part of my luggage I think I'd prefer it :-).
[06:18] <Kamion> infinity: if the "select disk" page is broken, it would be nice to fix that
[06:18] <Kamion> but we're rapidly running out of time
[06:20] <infinity> Kamion: #46395 is the crasher.
[06:20] <iwj> These tests don't seem to suggest doing installs in other languages besides English.  Can we assume that's being taken care of or should I try some tests in Dutch ?
[06:20] <infinity> iwj: yeah, I can try bouncing binaries off you to test sometime in June.
[06:20] <infinity> iwj: I just like being able to do a quicker compile/feedback loop.
[06:20] <iwj> infinity: Sure.
[06:21] <infinity> iwj: More languages = good.
[06:21] <infinity> iwj: mvo regularly installs in Greek (despite not speaking a word of Greek)... I often do Japanese..
[06:21] <Kamion> iwj: please do try other languages, particularly for ubiquity; tests in languages that aren't entirely ASCII are good
[06:22] <bddebian> Kamion: Sorry, I was afk.  What where you saying?
[06:22] <infinity> Kamion: Also, ubiquity didn't appear to DTRT WRT the system clock on Zofia's WinXP machine, but I'm pretty sure we're too late to fiddle much with that one.
[06:27] <mdz> iwj: yes, please do try a random language
[06:28] <ogra> infinity, use edubuntu :P
[06:28] <bddebian> infinity: What are you fond of? ;-)
[06:28] <infinity> Pillow bevels are so... So... Geocities, circa 1997.
[06:28] <pygi> ogra, you again :P
[06:28] <_ion> But the new one definitely isn't bad.
[06:29] <infinity> _ion: As would I.
[06:29] <mdz> infinity: sab
[06:29] <infinity> mdz: I'll let him get over me accusing him of wanting to shoot puppies before I approach him about the splash change.
[06:29] <ogra> infinity, edubuntu dapper will give you a beautifully win95 colored look and feel :)
[06:29] <mdz> infinity: do not use the word 'change' in conversation with the sab
[06:30] <ogra> haha
[06:30] <mdz> not until after the release
[06:30] <ogra> hey, he promised to keep out of egdy, didnt he ... so be carefule after release as well ;)
[06:30] <Kamion> bddebian: we have a report that tells us about binaries that aren't built any more, so in general there's no need to prod about them
[06:30] <Keybuk> woohooo!
[06:31] <Keybuk> "RuntimeError; Install failed with exit code 1"
[06:31] <bddebian> Kamion: OK, sorry.  I was just trying to clean up unmet deps. :'-(
[06:31] <Kamion> Keybuk: /var/log/installer/syslog has a more detailed trace
[06:31] <infinity> Kamion: Argh, okay, maybe mine's not a dupe of that one.  I literally CAN'T select a disk.  I just loop forever.  Even after having removed my CF card and rebooted.
[06:31] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, I like that you made the URL clicky
[06:31] <_ion> Here's a cool, new splash for Gnome! http://johan.kiviniemi.name/pictures/usplash/ubuntu98
[06:31] <Kamion> it's from a subprocess so I didn't have time to figure out how to get it through to the crash dialog
[06:31] <Kamion> Keybuk: that was Riddell's doing
[06:31] <Kamion> Keybuk: is this on powerpc, with ubiquity 1.0.4?
[06:32] <Keybuk> Kamion: dunno how to tell the version, but yes, powerpc today
[06:32] <Kamion> Keybuk: if the traceback complains about base-installer/kernel/linux/link_on_boot being missing, it's fixed in ubiquity 1.0.5
[06:32] <Keybuk> yes 1.0.5
[06:32] <Keybuk> uh. 1.0.4
[06:32] <Kamion> Keybuk: I wouldn't object if you upgraded to that and tried again, if you have time; powerpc obviously hasn't seen much testing because that bug has been around for a while
[06:32] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, it's that bug
[06:32] <Kamion> careful to upgrade ubiquity-frontend-kde and ubiquity-ubuntu-artwork too
[06:32] <bddebian> So give me a PPC ;-P
[06:33] <Kamion> I'd like to get my own working properly first ...
[06:33] <infinity> Kamion: I guess I'll report the loop now. :/
[06:33] <Kamion> infinity: yes please, and if you can reproduce with UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1, that would be even better
[06:33] <Keybuk> Kamion: apparently, the problem is that the CD drive sits directly under where your right wrist rests
[06:33] <infinity> Kamion: I'm sure I can, it seems to hate my system.
[06:33] <Keybuk> and eventually you push down so much there that you physically bend the CD drive
[06:33] <Keybuk> it's a "common problem"
[06:34] <Kamion> mdz: are there still going to be artwork updates post-RC?
[06:34] <Kamion> R"C"
[06:34] <mdz> Kamion: unfortunately yes
[06:34] <mdz> it is beyond my control
[06:35] <Keybuk> aren't we getting new icons on release day, or something?
[06:35] <Kamion> mdz: perhaps I should start maintaining a list of ubiquity bug fixes I would like to get in while we're rebuilding livefses anyway, then
[06:35] <Kamion> because I doubt I have much more time before RC
[06:35] <jdub> Keybuk: yeah, the new green set is being delivered on the 31st
[06:35] <mdz> Kamion: well, by my count, we can't even build a plausible candidate until about 8pm
[06:35] <mdz> given publisher delays
[06:36] <Kamion> mdz: any ubiquity bug fixes now would push that back, unless by some miracle I can get them done in the next 20 minutes
[06:37] <infinity> Kamion: installer/syslog and... Anything else for the loop?
[06:37] <mdz> Kamion: I think at the end of this hour we ought to lock down uploads
[06:38] <iwj> Hey!  Someone ignored my lock on Testing/Current !"
[06:38] <mdz> iwj: moin rats them out
[06:38] <mdz> (when your lock is stolen it tells you who, iirc)
[06:38] <Keybuk> was probably me
[06:38] <Kamion> infinity: /var/log/partman
[06:38] <mdz> infinity: how did you trigger it?
[06:39] <infinity> Kamion: Done.
[06:39] <infinity> mdz: "Ran ubiquity".
[06:39] <iwj> mdz: It didn't seem to tell me who.  It just said `someone'.
[06:39] <Kamion> mdz: do we have the technical ability to do that in soyuz?
[06:39] <bddebian> mdz: All uploads or main?
[06:39] <mvo> mdz: would it be ok for another update-manager upload? breezy-updates and dapper?  [fixes a non-transltable string and the "codename" -> "version"] 
[06:39] <mdz> infinity: it looped *at startup*?
[06:39] <Keybuk> Kamion: ah, so hda1 and hda2 are "Apple Partition Map" things?
[06:39] <mdz> bddebian: we don't have the ability to be more specific
[06:39] <bddebian> mdz: OK
[06:39] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[06:39] <infinity> mdz: No, it loops over and over when I select the disk I want to install to.  Which I mentioned in the bug.
[06:39] <infinity> mdz: But I did nothing special before that.
[06:39] <mdz> Kamion: Kinnison gave me some instructions a while back
[06:40] <iwj> Keybuk: It looks like it was you.  Please be more careful.
[06:40] <Kamion> Keybuk: hda1 is the partition table itself
[06:40] <Keybuk> iwj: I don't see the locks, I'm afraid
[06:40] <Kamion> Keybuk: dunno about hda2, don't want to look now
[06:40] <mdz> mvo: before the next cron.daily, yes
[06:40] <Kamion> mdz: oh are you just shutting down the queue processor?
[06:40] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[06:40] <infinity> mdz: Oh, crap, can I sync ssl-cert from Debian?  Nothing but updated translations and a dependency fix (needed to depend on adduser, since it uses it in the postinst)
[06:41] <infinity> mdz: Just realised I'd forgotten until now.
[06:41] <mdz> infinity: debdiff
[06:41] <iwj> Keybuk: WDYM you `don't see the locks' ?
[06:41] <mdz> iwj: it's easy to overlook the warning when you're in a hurry
[06:41] <infinity> mdz: Literally, "+Depends: adduser", if you don't count the debconf translations.  Let me gra a real debdiff.
[06:41] <mdz> it really should be an intermediate page, not just a note at the top
[06:41] <Keybuk> iwj: the moin editor thingy doesn't actually show them
[06:42] <mdz> infinity: I'm not inclined to trust changelogs at this point
[06:42] <infinity> mdz: It's my package. :)
[06:42] <iwj> mdz: hurry> That's true but in the case of Testing/Current I think extra care is warranted because we all should expect everyone to be editing it right now.
[06:42] <iwj> So I did a Kubuntu test but there is no Kubuntu test plan.
[06:42] <iwj> I made it up as best I could.
[06:43] <infinity> mdz: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/ssl-cert.diff
[06:43] <iwj> Is that the right answer ?
[06:43] <iwj> Should I document what I did ?
[06:43] <mdz> infinity: oh, I didn't realize
[06:43] <mdz> infinity: fine
[06:43] <infinity> mdz: Danke.
[06:43] <iwj> What issues are known and known not to be release-critical ?  There are 3 things I know of so far where the `corresponding' thing fails a test.
[06:43] <mdz> iwj: yes, please
[06:43] <iwj> mdz: Right.
[06:44] <bddebian> mdz: Will this mean uploads are shutdown for good until Release?
[06:44] <mdz> iwj: send Simon a mail about it so he can review when he wakes
[06:44] <sfllaw> mdz: I'm awake.
[06:44] <mdz> bddebian: well, no
[06:44] <iwj> mdz: Willdo.
[06:44] <mdz> sfllaw: good morning
[06:44] <sfllaw> I've been up for a while now.
[06:44] <Keybuk> infinity: manual processing of uploads -- process-upload.py ?
[06:44] <iwj> Also I notice that Riddell put a `Y' in the box which I assume means `pass' but I thought it was `fail'.
[06:45] <mdz> iwj: Y/N was an older scheme; we switched to pass/fail to make it easier to spot failures
[06:45] <infinity> Keybuk: Yes, or just drop them in incoming and wait.
[06:45] <Keybuk> iwj: riddell appears to have used different CDs.  He's PASS/Y'd something which is a guaranteed FAIL without upgrading
[06:46] <infinity> Keybuk: process-upload takes some pretty viscious arguments and underlying filesystem assumptions.
[06:46] <Keybuk> infinity: ah, so just stopping the upload queue processor, not the incoming processor?
[06:46] <infinity> Keybuk: Oh!  We're talking about for manual approval of uploads?
[06:47] <Keybuk> infinity: right
[06:47] <infinity> Keybuk: I thought you meant manually feeding something back into the queue.
[06:47] <Keybuk> no, I know how to do *that* properly now
[06:47] <infinity> Keybuk: For manual approval, I assume we have a real approval queue, like we do for -updates...
[06:47] <infinity> But I'm not sure of that..
[06:47] <Keybuk> given you're talking about stopping uploads, I figured I should probably know how to manually approve them given people ask :)
[06:47] <Kamion> infinity: if you have time to test http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-delete-partitions.diff (just apply it to /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/ubiquity/frontend/gtkui.py), that would be great - though it won't fix your loop
[06:48] <infinity> When a queue is set for manual approval, it should be manipulated with the queue tool, just like you'd do NEW...
[06:48] <Kamion> but deleting partitions will be pretty common and I think I need to fix that
[06:48] <infinity> Kamion: Kay, I guess I'll need to recreate my partitions and delete them again. :)
[06:48] <mdz> iwj: please only list major issues in the table itself; otherwise it's hard to see the reason for the FAIL
[06:48] <mdz> iwj: (e.g., #46397 isn't a showstopper by any means)
[06:49] <bddebian> Since it sounds like I should stop uploading.  Anything I can do to help anyone?
[06:49] <Kinnison> Kamion: The kubuntu text mode install cd just asked me if my clock is in UTC or not, under what circumstances do we ask that question?
[06:49] <Kamion> mdz: could you eyeball http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-delete-partitions.diff ?
[06:49] <mdz> iwj: likewise, Kubuntu has never had launchpad-integration
[06:49] <mjg59> Kinnison: If there's another OS on the drive
[06:49] <ogra> bddebian, what makes you think you should stop uploading ? 
[06:50] <Kamion> mdz: I've just verified that it doesn't break normal mountpoint preselection
[06:50] <bddebian> ogra: They just said they were going to stop uploads
[06:50] <Kinnison> mjg59: then it asked wrongly because I told it to erase the entire drive
[06:50] <Riddell> iwj, Keybuk: my Y should be a "PASS with upgrade to ubiquity 1.0.5"
[06:50] <iwj> mdz: Err, so I should decide for myself whether something is release critical and pass if it isn't ?
[06:50] <Kinnison> Kamion: is this a known bug, or should I file it?
[06:50] <Kamion> Kinnison: it'll ask in the event that you don't have Windows installed.
[06:50] <Kamion> notabug
[06:50] <Kinnison> okay
[06:50] <ogra> bddebian, so then upload until you get "rjected" messages from LP ;)
[06:51] <Kinnison> Kamion: I'll carry on then :-)
[06:51] <iwj> mdz: Perhaps it would be better to write the test plan so that expected and known behaviours, which are not RC, are not tripped by the tester.
[06:51] <Kamion> Kinnison: it doesn't know whether you're UTC or not; you might have had Windows on there at some point in the past
[06:51] <mdz> iwj: I trust you to judge the difference between a missing feature and a release-relevant bug
[06:51] <iwj> iwj: Right, that's fine.
[06:52] <bddebian> ogra: Heh
[06:53] <mdz> iwj: apart from the 3 bug numbers in the table, your Kubuntu installation was successful?  if so, that should be a PASS; I looked at each of the bugs and they're cosmetic or missing features
[06:53] <mdz> iwj: one of  them is listed twice,though, so maybe you found another issue?
[06:53] <Kamion> mdz: verified that that diff fixes the claimed bug too
[06:53] <iwj> mdz: I'll check.
[06:53] <mdz> Kamion: going as fast as I can
[06:54] <siretart> err, did anyone else notice bug #46285? I'm seeing it as well on my machine...
[06:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46285 in ia32-libs "pre-installation of the package is trying overwrite '/usr/bin/ldd' with  `/usr/bin/ldd.amd64'" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46285
[06:54] <Kamion> I managed to reproduce it locally
[06:55] <mdz> Kamion: self.size is a hash of 'hda1' : int?
[06:55] <Keybuk> siretart: I have a later version than that installed
[06:55] <Keybuk> siretart: 2006-05-22 10:38:50 upgrade ia32-libs 1.4ubuntu17 1.4ubuntu18
[06:55] <Keybuk> siretart: and did the same upgrade
[06:55] <Keybuk> (successfully)
[06:55] <mdz> yep
[06:55] <siretart> Keybuk: I'm seeing it with 1.4ubuntu18
[06:55] <mdz> Kamion: go ahead
[06:57] <Kamion> mdz: bug 46398 needs to be fixed pre-release, but there's no way I have time to do it now
[06:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46398 in ubiquity ""Select a disk" loops forever..." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46398
[06:57] <mdz> Kamion: add to DRR
[06:57] <Kamion> will do
[06:57] <Keybuk> what does auto-resize mean?
[06:57] <Keybuk> I've always wondered that
[06:57] <mdz> Keybuk: "resize partition <foo> and use freed space"
[06:57] <Keybuk> isn't that custom partitioning?
[06:58] <Kamion> mdz: self.size> correct
[06:58] <Kamion> Keybuk: no
[06:58] <sfllaw> mdz: jbailey thought he found two RC bugs on amd64.  But I don't think he's filed them yet.
[06:58] <mdz> no
[06:58] <Kamion> custom => "Manual partitioning"
[06:58] <Keybuk> what's custom partitioning?
[06:58] <Keybuk> you have to do manual partitioning to resize partitions though?
[06:58] <mdz> Keybuk: "partition manually" or whatever
[06:58] <Kamion> no you don't
[06:58] <mdz> Keybuk: gparted
[06:58] <Keybuk> you don't?
[06:59] <Kamion> sometimes partman offers you the opportunity to resize the biggest resizable partition on your disk and autopartition the free space created by doing that
[06:59] <Keybuk> under what conditions does it offer that?
[06:59] <Kamion> it's a bit complicated and there are several constraints so it cannot always offer it
[06:59] <Keybuk> ah, right
[06:59] <Keybuk> what should I put for that?  "Unable to test" or something?
[07:00] <infinity> Kamion: That patch appears to fix my crash-on-partition-deletion bug, yes.
[07:01] <Kamion> if there is already >=2.2GB unpartitioned space it won't offer it; there needs to be a resizable partition with >=3GB free (and HFS doesn't count as resizable here, which is probably an error)
[07:01] <Kamion> on x86, there needs to be room to create a primary partition
[07:01] <Keybuk> ah, so it can't be offered for powerpc anyway?
[07:01] <Kamion> which means that there must be <4 primary partitions in existence already, and if there are no logical partitions then there must be <3 primary partitions so that it can also create an extended partition
[07:02] <Keybuk> there appears to be 9 primary partitions in existance
[07:02] <iwj> I told the installer Dutch, in London, and it offers me Belgian as the default choice for keyboard ...
[07:02] <Kamion> and if there's already an extended partition then logical partitions in the middle of it don't count
[07:02] <Keybuk> do macs have primary and extended partitions still then?
[07:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: the Mac partition table does not, no
[07:02] <Kamion> it only has one partition type; much saner
[07:03] <Keybuk> I assumed they'd just have some randomly different table
[07:03] <Kamion> Keybuk: yeah, powerpc probably won't see it very often at present
[07:03] <Keybuk> any easy way to trigger it for testing purposes?
[07:03] <pitti> I'm glad to report that with an updated ubiquity, and today's fixes, all ppc scenarios (except my untested 'expert' variant) succeed
[07:03] <iwj> Under what circumstances is auto-resize supposed to work ?
[07:04] <Kamion> iwj: known bug; we have trouble dealing with language/country combinations that don't match up to a locale in /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
[07:04] <Kamion> iwj: I just spent several lines outlining the exact circumstances where it's offered above
[07:04] <infinity> Kamion: FWIW, the loop is definitely a regression, since the last time I used espresso/ubiquity on this machine, it was able to "take over /dev/hdc" just fine.
[07:04] <Kamion> pitti: great
[07:04] <Kamion> Keybuk: not really :-/
[07:05] <pitti> ouch @ ubuntu-meta 0.116
[07:05] <Kamion> oh I suppose you could create a large vfat partition
[07:05] <pitti> oh, that was from yesterday
[07:05] <Keybuk> Kamion: hmm. 1.0.6 could explain my earlier crash ... I might retry that drive with 1.0.6 in a bit
[07:05] <Kamion> might still not quite work though; it should log why it isn't offering it
[07:05] <iwj> Kamion: Oh, so you did, thanks.
[07:06] <Kamion> Keybuk: I'll go through later and play hunt-the-duplicate
[07:06] <iwj> Unfortunately I don't think I can create those conditions without going and buying a disk ...
[07:06] <pitti> Kamion: btw, all my attempts to create a large vfat partition on ppc failed; for some reason, gparted only sees unknwon partitions then
[07:06] <Kamion> Keybuk: no, your crash is different
[07:06] <iwj> And now I've managed to lock up the partitioner.
[07:06] <pitti> Kamion: however, this feature isn't so interesting on ppc anyway, I'll test it on amd64 again on Sunday
[07:06] <Keybuk> Kamion: oh, ok
[07:07] <Kamion> Keybuk: there are a lot of instances of things like your crash though; I'll add an item to the radar to defend against those
[07:07] <Keybuk> Riddell: how did you get auto-resize to be offered on powerpc?  You've put "Y" for that
[07:09] <infinity> Kamion: I like how d-i uses the reverse DNS for my IP as my suggested hostname.  Is it too late to sneak that feature into ubiquity?
[07:09] <infinity> (or too much code)
[07:09] <Kamion> infinity: discussed at length at UI sprint, explicitly decided not to
[07:09] <infinity> Of course, others may hate that.  I like it, cause my reverse DNS here is correct, so I get to type less.
[07:09] <Kamion> -> sabdfl
[07:09] <infinity> Kamion: Ahh, damn.
[07:10] <Kamion> infinity: I like it too on my network, but I have to admit that for many users in ubiquity's target audience, the reverse DNS is useless
[07:11] <iwj> Kamion: I've still got the system in the stuck state I report in bug 46404.  Do you want me to do any investigation right now ?
[07:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46404 in ubiquity "partitioner locked up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46404
[07:11] <infinity> Kamion: Quite probably true.  And I'll admit that I'd never use ubuquity except in testing, so there we go. :)
[07:11] <iwj> (Let's all pile on Kamion until he's completely squashed.)
[07:11] <infinity> ubuquity?  Wow.  FINGERS, GO.
[07:11] <mdz> Riddell: please use PASS/FAIL rather than Y/N, as documented on the page
[07:12] <Keybuk> infinity: infiquity
[07:12] <Kamion> iwj: can you attach /var/log/installer/syslog and /var/log/partman to that bug please? I'd also like to know what processes are running as root
[07:12] <iwj> Kamion: Willdo.
[07:13] <Kamion> I think the large blank window is known but it's Kubuntu-specific; Riddell would know better
[07:13] <ogra> phew, luky me :)
[07:13] <Kamion> I haven't kept track of the Kubuntu-specific bugs in all cases
[07:13] <ogra> *lucky even
[07:13] <infinity> mdz: Do we have the means to just lock off main, or did we kill the queue completely?
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: you'll need to manually process binary uploads of stuff that got uploaded just before the cut-off
[07:14] <Kamion> or I can do that, but I need dinner now
[07:14] <mdz> Kamion: I'm told that is not the case
[07:14] <Kamion> iwj: /nick ______
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: fair enough, I stand corrected
[07:15] <mdz> infinity: everything
[07:15] <Kamion> we should make sure ubiquity 1.0.6 binaries definitely get in though
[07:15] <mdz> Kamion: I confirmed with celso that the source was processed
[07:15] <Keybuk> Kamion: pass with 1.0.5, fixed the link_on_boot bug
[07:15] <mdz> and its binaries should make their way in along with everything else
[07:15] <ogra> edubuntu-{meta,artwork} would also be nice
[07:15] <infinity> Well, at least grub-install worked right.  Woo.
[07:15] <mdz> ogra: you already uploaded them less than an hour ago; they had better be final
[07:16] <ogra> mdz, its only language additions to amd64 and dropping the dapper from the ff homepage 
[07:17] <mdz> ogra: *you already uploaded that*
[07:17] <ogra> yes
[07:17] <Kamion> Keybuk: hooray
[07:17] <mdz> so what do we have to talk about?
[07:17] <iwj> Kamion: done.
[07:17] <mgalvin> just a heads up... i got DapperRC all set in case anyone has time to review/proof it (its not to long, this is all i have time for ATM)
[07:17] <Kamion> he's asking to check that they're in
[07:17] <ogra> mdz, nothing then i guess, i misunderstood it seems
[07:18] <mdz> everything accepted before I announced the change was processed, of course
[07:18] <infinity> Kamion: How and when would I see "auto-resize" in ubiquity?
[07:18] <infinity> Kamion: Or will that not appear for me, thanks to the infinite loop bug?
[07:18] <iwj> infinity: Stop wittering on IRC and save Testing/Current :-).
[07:19] <ogra> mdz, ok, the "binary stuff might need manual love" was confusing me
[07:19] <Kamion> infinity: same reasons as above
[07:19] <Kamion> infinity: it's passed straight through from partman
[07:19] <mdz> ogra: I just installed Edubuntu, and it shows the CD with a DVD icon. is this normal?
[07:19] <Kamion> you probably won't get it due to the infinite loop at select disk
[07:19] <infinity> iwj: Saving...
[07:19] <infinity> Kamion: Kay.
[07:19] <ogra> mdz, meh, cant tell, i only have DVDs to test the isos here 
[07:19] <mdz> ogra: as I said to Kamion at the time, no special care is needed for binary uploads
[07:19] <ogra> yep
[07:20] <infinity> Kamion: Sorry to irritate; Bouncing between IRC and installers is making me lose coherence.
[07:20] <infinity> Also, WIKI, SAVE FASTER.
[07:21] <Keybuk> I need to get some writable DVDs at some point
[07:21] <Keybuk> I've had a DVD writer for ages, and never actually used it
[07:21] <Kinnison> iwj: has firefox lost the ability to remember where I put it and with what toolbars I want it to appear?
[07:22] <iwj> Kinnison: Err, I know of no reason why it should ...
[07:22] <ogra> mdz, works fine with a windows driver CD i have lying around here, it can only be the ubuntu/edubuntu CD doesnt get recognized right i think
[07:22] <iwj> Perhaps your profile has been evaporated somehow.
[07:22] <Kinnison> iwj: I think my profile must be way bugggered then
[07:23] <crimsun> danimo: pong, please tell me the output from ``tail -2 /proc/asound/oss/sndstat'' in #ubuntu+1
[07:23] <iwj> That profile system is truly one of the worst inventions ever.  Less transparent and reliable than the 'doze registry, less structured than /etc+~/.*, less well documented than IRC client settings, ...
[07:23] <mdz> ogra: it's a hal problem
[07:23] <Kinnison> iwj: aye
[07:23] <Keybuk> Kamion: minor bug; Kubuntu ppc alternate still calls itself "Kubuntu installation CDROM"
[07:23] <mdz> volume.disc_type = 'dvd_rom'
[07:23] <iwj> infinity: Yay, I got the lock.  Ta.
[07:24] <Keybuk> mdz: could you do a udevinfo -ap on the device too?
[07:24] <mdz> I wonder why this doesn't happen with Ubuntu
[07:24] <Keybuk> and nopaste it somewhere
[07:24] <crimsun> pitti: looks like g-s-t (and asoundconf's convenience setter) should set all those values from /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf  (cf. #43146)
[07:24] <Kinnison> iwj: I think it was something in my profile
[07:24] <Kinnison> iwj: Now I need to feed it bit by bit the stuff I care about (E.g. bookmarks)
[07:24] <ogra> mdz, ok
[07:24] <infinity> mdz: We'll want to manually push the OOo-amd64 source upload through in a bit, I think.
[07:25] <infinity> mdz: Doing the i386 upload right now.
[07:25] <mdz> infinity: *groan*
[07:25] <crimsun> pitti: err, not g-s-t but g-c-c rather (fumblefingers)
[07:25] <mdz> infinity: I think it may need to wait until after RC then
[07:25] <mdz> i can't stay here all night
[07:25] <infinity> mdz: Kay, well i386 will be in at least.
[07:25] <Keybuk> mdz: actually, I mean can you do "udevinfo -q all -n /dev/hdX" :p
[07:25] <mdz> infinity: depending on how long from now 'a bit' is
[07:26] <mdz> Keybuk: it's a pain to copy the data off; any particular field you're interested in?
[07:26] <mdz> ID_TYPE=cd
[07:26] <Keybuk> mdz: IDE_CDROM_DVD
[07:27] <mdz> Keybuk: not present
[07:27] <Keybuk> mdz: does it have "S: dvd"
[07:27] <mdz> Keybuk: no, S: cdrom
[07:27] <Keybuk> fair enough
[07:27] <Keybuk> iz hal bug
[07:27] <Keybuk> (occasionally what look like hal bugs turn out to be ata driver bugs)
[07:27] <infinity> mdz: Well, it'll take a publisher run to get the i386 binaries in, then the -amd64 source package can be rolled and shoved in.
[07:27] <jdub> Keybuk: so long as it supports dma...
[07:28] <ogra> why custard ... ?
[07:28] <ogra> mustard smells more funny :)
[07:28] <mdz> infinity: a publisher run should have started on the hour, no?
[07:28] <infinity> mdz: I'm not overly fussed if it doesn't make RC... i386 is the most tested arch anyway, so having the most recent binaries there is more useful.
[07:29] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, but I'm uploading the i386 binaries /now/.
[07:29] <mdz> infinity: oh :-/
[07:29] <infinity> mdz: I can hand-drive another publisher run, though.
[07:29] <mdz> I thought they were already in
[07:30] <mdz> ogra: happens in ubuntu, too
[07:30] <mdz> must be something with vmware
[07:30] <ogra> mdz, ok, thats calmig fro edubuntu, but not nice ...
[07:31] <mdz> probably vmware just doesn't report the media type correctly
[07:32] <infinity> mdz: We don't have a hope of seeing binaries on powerpc for ages anyway, so unless we want specific testing of the -amd64 stuff, it's not like they'll all be in sync anyway.
[07:32] <ogra> mdz, sad, the patch i remembered was only for burn capabilities ...
[07:32] <ogra> so lets blame vmware ...
[07:33] <ogra> (for now, i'll test it later tonight here)
[07:35] <mdz> infinity: huhwhat powerpc?
[07:35] <infinity> mdz: OOo powerpc... Only been building for an hour...
[07:36] <mdz> oh, right, the new one
[07:36] <mdz> at least it has ubuntu8 though
[07:36] <infinity> Yeah, true dat.
[07:38] <Riddell> Keybuk: auto-resize is offered if partman recons it can do it
[07:38] <Keybuk> Riddell: what did you do to make partman offer it?
[07:38] <Riddell> doing a erase all install then a second install will offer it
[07:38] <Keybuk> cool, will try that
[07:39] <Riddell> assuming your hard disk is big enough
[07:39] <dholbach> do I assume correctly, that I can upload ubuntu-artwork now and it will be queued and everything's fine?
[07:40] <mdz> dholbach: yes
[07:40] <janimo> nomed: ping
[07:40] <janimo> I just tested and see the firefox bug as well
[07:40] <dholbach> because it fixes two issues we got a bunch of duplicates for, I'd be happy if it was in.
[07:40] <Keybuk> Riddell: ah, this is only a 4GB
[07:40] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: did the install finish well?
[07:41] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, yes
[07:41] <Keybuk> that would explain why it also wasn't offered by the alternate CD
[07:41] <nomed> janimo, plese read the log of xubuntu :)
[07:41] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: hmm still ltsp? I tought I took that out
[07:41] <janimo> nomed, ok :)
[07:41] <nomed> i listed some issues that should be fixed
[07:41] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: did it take a lot of time again building ltsp chroot?
[07:41] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, it's the same error than the first time I got it
[07:42] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, yes
[07:42] <nomed> janimo, have u seen the new xfdesktop patch ?
[07:42] <janimo> nomed, not yet
[07:42] <janimo> was away the past 2 hours
[07:42] <nomed> check xfce-devel
[07:42] <Keybuk> *blink*
[07:42] <Keybuk> "The installation CD does not contain full support for your language"
[07:43] <Keybuk> are we not shipping English anymore?
[07:43] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: very strange since there is no ltsp in the desktop or install seed
[07:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: true - can you file that on /products/ubuntu-cdimage? May not get fixed now though.
[07:44] <Kamion> ("Kubuntu installation cdrom"
[07:44] <Kamion> )
[07:44] <Kamion> Keybuk: language-support-en should definitely be there
[07:44] <Kamion> Keybuk: what CD is that?
[07:44] <Keybuk> it had to download it
[07:44] <Keybuk> Kubuntu PPC Alternate
[07:44] <Kamion> it's seeded
[07:45] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, yes, that's strange...
[07:45] <Keybuk> it's also in /cdrom/pool
[07:45] <Keybuk> weird
[07:45] <Keybuk> so why did it ask me?
[07:46] <ogra> oversized ? is it missing partially or a dependency ? 
[07:46] <Kamion> Keybuk: could you complete the installation and put /var/log/installer/syslog somewhere please?
[07:46] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: can you do a dist-upgrade and see if today's changes are ok?
[07:46] <Kamion> ogra: pkgsel wouldn't notice if it were
[07:46] <ogra> hmm
[07:46] <Kamion>                 if ! [ "$(chroot /target apt-cache -n search "^language-support-$l\$")" ] ; then
[07:46] <iwj> Kamion: do you want anything else from this wedged box or can I reboot it ?
[07:46] <Kamion> that's the test
[07:46] <Keybuk> Kamion: sure, what should I file the bug on?
[07:46] <Kamion> Keybuk: pkgsel
[07:46] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: aboiut page linking to the desktop guide, and the cursor theme is human (strtup notification icon )
[07:46] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I just did a kubuntu-alternative install of english and it worked (i386)
[07:47] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, ok, I need to reboot
[07:47] <Keybuk> Kamion: I can greb the log for something, any text I should look for?
[07:47] <lamont> remind me what the cdbs target is for applying patches?
[07:47] <Kamion> Riddell: I think iwj's problem (bug 46404) is ubiquity waiting for qtparted to exit; can you have a look and see if you need any more info?
[07:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46404 in ubiquity "partitioner locked up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46404
[07:48] <janimo> nomed: weird the firefox bug, should it not be the same in gnome?
[07:48] <ogra> Kamion, Keybuk, well http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/report.html
[07:48] <Kamion> iwj: stracing the qtparted process there (7324) for a bit might not do any harm
[07:48] <Kamion> ogra: certainly won't help
[07:48] <nomed> janimo, i guess it 's the same in gnome
[07:48] <janimo> nomed: apparently #xubuntu is not logged? was the discussion in u-meeting by any chance?
[07:48] <Kinnison> Riddell: kubuntu didn't usplash_down from kdm, is this a known bug?
[07:49] <ogra> Kamion, looks horrible ... and if Keybuk got that one i think its likely that something is missing
[07:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: actually can you do 'debconf-get localechooser/supported-locales' please?
[07:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: there's a message -- "pkgsel: language-support packages not available on CD"
[07:49] <nomed> janimo mainly ..
[07:49] <janimo> nomed: I wonder why we get the bug? I doubt people wouldn't not notice it so far if it happened in gnome too
[07:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: does /cdrom/.disk/base_installable exist?
[07:49] <Kamion> (sanity check)
[07:49] <Kamion> ogra: yes but let me debug this as well please
[07:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes
[07:49] <nomed> 1) usplash has an issue
[07:49] <ogra> Kamion, sorry
[07:50] <nomed> if you do not use 640x400 you'll see two lines ..
[07:50] <Keybuk> Kamion: en_GB.UTF-8, en_US.UTF-8
[07:50] <nomed> as if the image is 2px smaller
[07:50] <Kamion> Keybuk: chroot /target apt-cache -n search "^language-support-en"
[07:50] <Kamion> Keybuk: chroot /target apt-cache -n search "^language-support-en$"
[07:51] <Keybuk> Kamion: zilch
[07:51] <Kamion> (sorry, first was wrong)
[07:51] <Riddell> Kinnison: it does fail sometimes yes
[07:51] <janimo> nomed, seems like I was too optimistic when I taught it would be the last usplash upload :(
[07:51] <Riddell> Kinnison: how did you logout?
[07:51] <nomed> janimo, then gdm theme should use tango style icons ..
[07:51] <Kinnison> Riddell: logout from the K menu, chose "turn off computer"
[07:51] <Keybuk> Kamion: not in /cdrom/pool
[07:51] <janimo> nomed: I think it is too late for the gdm theme to be redone
[07:51] <nomed> the ones used are not really nice with the wholo xubuntu-look
[07:51] <nomed> janimo, just change the icons
[07:51] <Kamion> Keybuk: I thought you said language-support-en was in /cdrom/pool
[07:52] <Kamion> 18:45 < Keybuk> it's also in /cdrom/pool
[07:52] <janimo> nomed: especially if it happens in the same style as before with me ping-ponging mails with the art guy
[07:52] <Keybuk> Kamion: sorry I confused language-support-en with language-BASE-en
[07:52] <Kamion> ym pack?
[07:52] <Keybuk> yes, I mean pack
[07:52] <Keybuk> see :)
[07:52] <iwj> Kamion: It's looping:  select, returns immediately because 0 is readable; fstat64(0,); _llseek(0,)->ESPIPE; read(0)->EOF; ioctl(3,FIONREAD,[0] )
[07:52] <Kamion> ah, then it is just the oversizing and ogra is correct. sorry ogra
[07:52] <Riddell> Kamion: looking
[07:52] <janimo> nomed: it would be best if there was a discussion on the list (not just PM to me) and if people pick 3-4 icons which are better I will include them in an upcoming upload
[07:52] <Keybuk> right-o; no point filing this as a bug then?
[07:53] <nomed> janimo, ok
[07:53] <ogra> Kamion, no need to feel sorry, youre usually right, was just a matter of my belly and luck ;)
[07:53] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: xubuntu-desktop depends on ubuntu-artwork now ?
[07:53] <Kamion> iwj: right, dumped that into the bug and reassigned to qtparted then
[07:53] <janimo> nomed: thanks. indeed it does not seem much work, but only for someone who knows what he's doing. So I just upload do not decide :)
[07:53] <Kamion> oh bugger, wrong bug
[07:53] <dholbach> lamont: how can I help you?
[07:53] <Keybuk> clearly I need to step away from the computer for a little bit, I'm unable to even read the screen properly anymore
[07:54] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: yes, for the Human cursos theme
[07:54] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[07:54] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: I hope it does not break anything 
[07:54] <lamont> dholbach: somewhere in metacity it makes a decision that if the newly created/rendered window doesn't get focus, then it should render under.  or maybe it just forces the focused window to the front, dunno...)  can you point me at where?
[07:54] <Kamion> Keybuk: no, but we do need to sort out that oversizing before release
[07:54] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: I'm dist upgrading, I'll remove my config and log in again
[07:54] <Kamion> before RC even
[07:54] <janimo> glthanks
[07:54] <nomed> i think is a good idea to have ubuntu-artwork anyway ..
[07:55] <iwj> Kamion: OK.  I'll gdb it and paste in the stack trace, too, I think, and then reboot.
[07:55] <nomed> janimo, those icons of the quit dialog are from ?
[07:55] <dholbach> lamont: I'll have to have a look. I know that we have a patch in there, just for you :)
[07:56] <janimo> nomed: I took them from the Human icon theme which gnome uses for logout
[07:56] <janimo> I don';t really want to chaneg them again
[07:56] <nomed> no no ..
[07:56] <janimo> are they not pretty :) ?
[07:56] <lamont> dholbach: further investigation shows that it's the auto-raise deciding to yank the (still-)focused window to the top
[07:56] <nomed> so we may use them too within gdm theme
[07:56] <Keybuk> dholbach: now is not the time to bitch that after I patiently spent ages making sure the "Reboot Required" dialog icon and panel icon matched, someone appears to have made them different? :)
[07:56] <janimo> nomed: ah yes
[07:56] <janimo> nomed: I agree
[07:57] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: I have a nice white mouse cursor :)
[07:57] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: nice :)
[07:57] <astronut> doko: ping
[07:57] <dholbach> Keybuk: which ones?!
[07:57] <dholbach> Keybuk: which ubuntu-artwork version?
[07:57] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: what should I look about the documentation?
[07:57] <Keybuk> dholbach: the applet panel icon is supposed to be a mini version of the icon in the dialog which is supposed to be the same as the icon in the shutdown dialog
[07:57] <Keybuk> none of these three things is true anymore
[07:58] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: it was there while gdm was depending on ubunut-artwork and disappeared when that went away
[07:58] <Keybuk> whatever's on the candidates we're testing
[07:58] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: see if the start page links to the desktop guide in the help section
[07:58] <nomed> janimo, so you could just do that (?)
[07:58] <dholbach> Keybuk: reboot required should have the same as in the logout dialog
[07:58] <dholbach> Keybuk: i sent the icon to mvo to change it
[07:58] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: yes, it's correctly linked
[07:58] <dholbach> Keybuk: there was a bug report and it's fixed
[07:58] <dholbach> Keybuk: can you show me a screenshot?
[07:59] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: ok, too bad there are no translations at all for the about page
[07:59] <Keybuk> yup, one moment
[07:59] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: thanks I think those are the only changes made since yesterday
[07:59] <dholbach> lamont: I'm sorry, I never plunged into the depths of metacity.  :(
[07:59] <janimo> now I have to figure out what is wrong with the ltsp
[07:59] <Keybuk> dholbach: ah, there appears to be a new version _TODAY_
[07:59] <dholbach> Keybuk: it's been fixed since some days
[08:00] <lamont> dholbach: no worries
[08:00] <Keybuk> dholbach: I haven't updated in a few days
[08:00] <lamont> do we expect seb128 back in the next day or 2?
[08:00] <Keybuk> I just keep forgetting to mention it
[08:00] <dholbach> Keybuk: ... guy! :)
[08:00] <janimo> nomed: if they are separate files I'll do that
[08:00] <dholbach> lamont: testing edubuntu cds
[08:00] <lamont> ah, ok
[08:01] <ogra> dholbach, oh, wow !
[08:03] <dholbach> Keybuk: i think that's bug 45137
[08:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45137 in update-notifier "Three different images for restart" [Minor,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45137
[08:04] <Keybuk> dholbach: yeah, when I wrote it I made damned sure all the icons matched
[08:04] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: do you know which file I should edit to change the gdm theme?
[08:04] <Keybuk> I even made a little icon to match <g>
[08:05] <Keybuk> was ironically amusing to discover someone had broken that
[08:05] <nomed> janimo, /usr/share/gdm/themes/xubuntu/
[08:05] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf
[08:05] <janimo> heh :)
[08:05] <lamont> dholbach: looks like someone may have fixed a race condition that creates my current annoyance.
[08:06] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: ah the theme itself, then nomed is right
[08:06] <tepsipakki> could the leak fix in bug #46417 still make it for dapper?
[08:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46417 in krb5 "a memory leak in rel_cred.c" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46417
[08:07] <Gloubiboulga> nomed, janimo, I don't want to edit the theme, I just want to use an other one, and change the gdm config for that :)
[08:07] <Keybuk> mdz: do we really have cron.daily enabled on the Live CD ? :)
[08:08] <lamont> Keybuk: I don't recall ever disabling it.
[08:08] <ogra> Gloubiboulga, use sudo gdmsetup 
[08:08] <nomed> Gloubiboulga, i guess you could do that using gdmsetup
[08:08] <nomed> yep
[08:08] <Keybuk> wouldn't anacron automatically assume that it's been "more than a day" since it was last booted, on the basis of the CD image creation time
[08:08] <Keybuk> so always run cron.daily when ever some poor bugger boots the Live CD ?
[08:08] <Gloubiboulga> ogra: someone on #xubuntu says that gdmsetup segfaults
[08:09] <ogra> Gloubiboulga, not on ubuntu/edubuntu ... must be xubuntu specific
[08:09] <Gloubiboulga> it works fine here, but *he* wants to change the theme
[08:09] <mdz> Keybuk: we disabled it in Breezy
[08:09] <mdz> iirc
[08:09] <Keybuk> you're the one that suggested updatedb ran in my Live session :)
[08:09] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: then the file I said under /etc/gdm
[08:10] <mdz> Keybuk: you're the one who invented this crazy story about /rofs in locate's database
[08:10] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: yep
[08:10] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: can you ask him to file a bug if he can reproduce it?
[08:10] <Keybuk> mdz: it's not a story, it's TRUE!
[08:10] <mdz> Keybuk: you confirmed the db had been updated?
[08:10] <nomed> Gloubiboulga, he could run gdmsetup from shell 
[08:10] <Keybuk> in a few hours, once this alternate test has finished, I'll boot Live again and prove it to you
[08:10] <janimo> althiugh gdmsetup is the exact same as in ubuntu, that we did not need to modify
[08:11] <Keybuk> janimo: gdmsetup sometimes segfaults if gdm has gone away since the session started
[08:11] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: I asked him to file the bug already, and he's gone now...
[08:11] <mdz> Keybuk: if you confirm, get together with Mithrandir and see that it's corrected
[08:11] <nomed> it works here ..
[08:11] <janimo> Keybuk: oh so it's known
[08:11] <mdz> Keybuk: you reckon we should just disable cron?
[08:11] <mdz> seems a bit heavy-handed
[08:12] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: ok it is not such a big issue imho
[08:12] <Keybuk> mdz: at least the built-in cron
[08:12] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: nop
[08:12] <Keybuk> ie. not do /etc/crontab or /etc/cron.*  (maybe unless there's a cow)
[08:12] <ogra> Keybuk, how can gdm go away without killing my session ? 
[08:12] <Keybuk> ogra: upgrade
[08:12] <janimo> as in gdm restart?
[08:12] <lamont> mdz: or at least tell it that cron.daily ran already
[08:13] <ogra> hmm, so out of sync between the running gdm and gdmsetup ...
[08:13] <ogra> right ...
[08:13] <mdz> lamont: I don't think cron keeps state
[08:13] <Keybuk> anacron does though
[08:13] <infinity> yeah, it's probably saner to get casper to tell anacron/cron that .daily just ran...
[08:13] <mdz> but anacron only runs from cron
[08:13] <Keybuk> mdz: and on boot
[08:13] <mdz> and we  don't want the other cron jobs to run either
[08:13] <mdz> Keybuk: it's disabled on boot
[08:13] <infinity> If you have a livecd up for 24 hours, maybe you want .daily to run... (Say, when I decide to start rolling ubuntu-server livecds in edgy)
[08:14] <Keybuk> mdz: really?  I thought I saw it in the boot sequence though I MAY HAVE BEEN HALLUCINATING ;)
[08:14] <lamont> infinity: true
[08:14] <mdz> Keybuk: by casper
[08:14] <kmr-away> could someone confirm I'm using launchpad correctly? I reported a serious bug 2 weeks along with a simple patch along with links to a test case, but launchpad still shows the bug as unconfirmed. I wonder if I should be doing something more: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/imagemagick/+bug/44307
[08:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44307 in imagemagick "Assertion failure processing ICC profiles with perlmagick" [Major,Unconfirmed]  
[08:14] <mdz> Keybuk: ./casper-bottom/25configure_init:rm -f /root/etc/rc?.d/S??anacron
[08:14] <mdz> kmr: see /topic
[08:14] <Keybuk> mdz: well, that would certainly do it
[08:15] <ogra> kmr, please ask on #launchpad
[08:15] <mdz> kmr: we're in the middle of a release
[08:15] <kmr> okay, thanks for the tips!
[08:15] <janimo> nomed, xfdesktop patch looks interesting, and would be nice but I think it's too late for it
[08:15] <Keybuk> mdz: what puts that back for the real install?
[08:15] <janimo> have you tried it?
[08:15] <mdz> Keybuk: nothing; ubiquity copies /rofs
[08:15] <nomed> not yet ..
[08:15] <kmr> /#launchpad
[08:16] <Keybuk> mdz: cunning
[08:16] <mdz> Keybuk: hence it having to remove langpacks, etc.
[08:20] <Keybuk> oh, wow, this goes so much faster if I fiddle with hdparm in the installer
[08:21] <ogra> Keybuk, what ? udev didnt set DMA right for your CDrom ? *g*
[08:21] <Keybuk> heh @ "The drive appears confused"
[08:21] <Keybuk> ogra: udev doesn't set DMA ... the kernel does
[08:21] <ogra> :)
[08:21] <nomed> janimo, may u take a look on xfce4-mixer?
[08:22] <nomed>  xfce4-mixer-4.3.90.1svn+r21697/settings/sound.c
[08:22] <Keybuk> THERE ARE NO UDEV BUGS
[08:22] <bddebian> heh
[08:22] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[08:22] <janimo> Kamion, any idea how ltsp can be on yestardays xubuntu CD if it's not in the desktop or installer seed?It is in ship though
[08:23] <janimo> Kamion: I mean not how can it be on the CD but why does it try to get installed
[08:23] <ogra> Keybuk, as there are only ltsp whishlist bugs (for edgy) :P
[08:23] <janimo> nomed: what to look at? I have played with icon names yesterday
[08:24] <nomed> if we want the correct icon we need to patch that file
[08:24] <nomed> it looked really simple ..
[08:24] <janimo> nomed, did it fix it?
[08:24] <Keybuk> ooh, wow, it's finally finished configuring stuff
[08:24] <nomed> but i do not get the icon on xfce-settings-show
[08:24] <nomed> just on 
[08:24] <janimo> I changed the icon name as well, but am not sure what to use to be ok across themes
[08:24] <nomed> xfce-settings-show sound header
[08:25] <nomed> xfce4-sound
[08:25] <janimo> xfce4-sound does not look like what benny had in his screenshot
[08:25] <janimo> did that icon go away entirely?
[08:26] <nomed> janimo, it the correct icon for that dialog
[08:26] <nomed> preferencies-sound
[08:26] <nomed> xfce4-mixer is a link to
[08:27] <mdz> Kamion: I added a post-RC section to DRR; do you have anything to add?
[08:27] <mdz> (to it)
[08:27] <nomed> volume-control that's gone in tango because of gpl .. and not cc
[08:27] <nomed> is the xfce4-mixer icon
[08:27] <nomed> but for that dialog xfce4-sound is the best choice 
[08:28] <nomed> that's how i patched legacy.xml
[08:28] <nomed> and what upstreamer should use
[08:28] <Keybuk> Riddell: what's /etc/rcS.d/S37displayconfig-hwprobe.py ?
[08:28] <nomed> xfce4-mixer is the app icon
[08:29] <Lure> Keybuk: afair, DPI setting for fonts in KDE
[08:29] <Keybuk> because it might be useful if that's moved to *after* /usr is mounted
[08:29] <Keybuk> being written in Python, and all
[08:29] <Keybuk> just a thought
[08:30] <Riddell> Keybuk: isn't that S35mountall.sh?
[08:30] <Keybuk> Riddell: no, /usr isn't available until ~ S50
[08:31] <Keybuk> Riddell: that should be S50...  like hwclock, etc.
[08:31] <Keybuk> I put /usr on a usb stick, just to make things interesting with custom partitioning
[08:31] <Riddell> ok, I can change that after RC
[08:32] <Keybuk> mountall only mounts local stuff on the same bus from /etc/fstab, etc.
[08:32] <Keybuk> and dude, dpkg-reconfigure in boot?!
[08:32] <Keybuk> sick, sick puppy
[08:32] <sabdfl> special kind of twisted, that
[08:33] <ogra> Keybuk, casper and ltsp-client do that too ;)
[08:33] <Keybuk> ogra: damning praise
[08:33] <ogra> heh
[08:35] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StreamlinedBoot  <--  look, I _actually_ documented what you can do at each point in rcS.d :p
[08:35] <Riddell> are there any plans to build the CDs to pick up ubiquity and other changes?
[08:35] <ogra> Keybuk, isnt it written in rcS README anyway ?
[08:35] <ogra> or init.d/README, cant remeber
[08:35] <Keybuk> ogra: heh, amusingly, rcS README is wrong
[08:36] <ogra> infinity, BUG ! :)
[08:36] <Keybuk> I'll fix that in edgy, by removing /etc/rcS.d
[08:36] <mdz> infinity: hmm, no oo.o in the latest publisher run?
[08:36] <ogra> haha
[08:36] <Keybuk> (note: lie)
[08:36] <fabbione> ogra: you do what???????? dpkg-reconfigure at boot???
[08:37] <Keybuk> Riddell: actually, thinking about it, put that at S60 -- that's the "right" place for it
[08:37] <ogra> fabbione, how else should the X server autoconfig work 
[08:37] <Keybuk> fabbione: DO IT!
[08:37] <fabbione> Keybuk: that would fix your bug too :)
[08:37] <ogra> fabbione, both, the liveCD and ltsp rely on it
[08:37] <mdz> fabbione: dude, it's a stateless thin client
[08:38] <Keybuk> mdz: actually, this is just Kubuntu install
[08:38] <fabbione> mdz -> vesa driver and a fast xresprobe to catch DDC or fall back.. no need to reconfigure
[08:38] <fabbione> call dexconf to write the config for you
[08:39] <fabbione> 3 times as fast
[08:39] <ogra> fabbione, what about lts.conf and all the preseeded Xorg values ? should we sed it ?
[08:39] <fabbione> better results
[08:39] <mdz> fabbione: it's been this way for a year
[08:39] <ogra> and its the *right* way if you need to preseed
[08:39] <fabbione> ogra: you can still preseed some stuff...
[08:39] <fabbione> mdz: i didn't write it or being asked on how to do it
[08:39] <ogra> fabbione, like mouse device or keymap ?
[08:40] <mdz> we shouldn't forego acceleration to gain a few seconds at boot time
[08:40] <fabbione> ogra: dexconf uses the values in debconf
[08:40] <ogra> fabbione, and dexconf is called by -reconfigure, no ?
[08:40] <fabbione> ogra: yes, but reconfigure has hell of a bloat of code compared to dexconf
[08:40] <fabbione> mdz: well it's quite a bunch of seconds
[08:41] <fabbione> anyway
[08:41] <fabbione> it's kind of late for dapper
[08:41] <ogra> yes, i know, its my slowest bootstep still
[08:41] <mdz> I think it's about 3 here
[08:41] <ogra> fabbione, lets talk in paris ...
[08:41] <ogra> argh
[08:41] <ogra> youre not in paris
[08:41] <fabbione> ogra: nope.. i won't be there
[08:41] <Keybuk> "mount: Function not implemented" ... wonder what that's about
[08:41] <fabbione> mdz: unlikely if you don't have the debconf db cached in memory
[08:41] <ogra> damned ... so lets talk it through after release
[08:42] <infinity> mdz: That's cause the last publisher run crashed.
[08:42] <mdz> infinity: does cprov know that?
[08:42] <infinity> mdz: It's a bug we've seen before, but we can poke him to look at the log.
[08:42] <infinity> mdz: For now, I'm going to disable the cronjob and re-run by hand.
[08:42] <mdz> infinity: ok
[08:45] <Keybuk> mdz: ok, this is odd; a fresh boot doesn't have /rofs on the front
[08:45] <Keybuk> something must have done updatedb
[08:46] <mdz> Keybuk: ->Mithrandir then
[08:47] <Keybuk> why do we run updatedb twice in cron.daily?
[08:49] <infinity> mdz: Oh, FFS.  Now the thing's stuck.
[08:49] <bddebian> w00t
[08:50] <Keybuk> dholbach: why does gdm stop _not_ in the live cd?
[08:50] <dholbach> Keybuk: mh?
[08:50] <dholbach> Keybuk: what do you mean?
[08:50] <Keybuk> dholbach: if you boot live, C-A-F1 then do sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop ... it doesn't
[08:53] <Keybuk> kdm does :)  except it throws up usplash
[08:53] <Keybuk> Riddell: known?
[08:54] <Riddell> Keybuk: yes
[08:57] <dholbach> Keybuk: hum, dunno if the funny messages in .xsession-errors say something
[08:57] <dholbach> Keybuk: do you have some gdkpixbuf-critical gnome-panel messages too?
[08:58] <Keybuk> meh, I've turned it off now
[08:58] <Keybuk> I'll look in a bit again
[08:58] <dholbach> ok
[08:58] <Keybuk> right now, I'm hungry and going slightly insane, so am going to leave the computer alone for an hour ;)
[08:58] <infinity> mdz: Oh wow.  A couple days after NVIDIA decided to fix their most ugly bugs, ATI went and did the same.  New fglrx just got released, fixing the "crash when switching consoles" and "doesn't effin' work with 512MB video adapters" bugs, among others.
[08:59] <infinity> mdz: Will we be pushing new binary love in -updates?
[08:59] <dholbach> Keybuk: my /var/log/Xorg.0.log says somethin about "Ok, leaving now..."
[08:59] <fabbione> i suggest to do it now
[08:59] <mdz> infinity: sure, why not
[08:59] <fabbione> they are binary blobs
[08:59] <mdz> infinity: add it to the relevant section on DRR
[08:59] <fabbione> and they will be on CD
[08:59] <Keybuk> mdz: oh, is there any particular hardware you'd like me to bring to London?
[09:00] <mdz> Keybuk: amd64 and powerpc
[09:00] <Keybuk> ok, I'll see if I can bribe my boyfriend to giving me a lift to London
[09:00] <mdz> the amd64 laptop I used for beta has been...."repurposed"
[09:00] <Keybuk> the amd64 is a *tad* heavy
[09:00] <Keybuk> will you be in the office on monday?
[09:00] <mdz> actually this huge server might be an amd64
[09:00] <mdz> Keybuk: I may be in the office *until* monday at this rate
[09:01] <infinity> mdz: FWIW, I'm inclined to agree with fabbione that one blob is the same as the next, and we should just push 'em on the CD before release.  But the question was also "will we keep updating them?"
[09:01] <mdz> Keybuk: ah, it is an amd64
[09:01] <Keybuk> mdz: I trust you know all the nearby 24hr eating places?
[09:01] <mdz> Keybuk: there are like 3 in London
[09:01] <mdz> none that I would classify as 'nearby'
[09:01] <Keybuk> ah, I suppose you do have dietary constraints
[09:01] <mdz> like "I'm hungry at 3am"?
[09:01] <garba> good evening anybody knows if and when emblems in nautilus will be fixed?
[09:02] <Keybuk> garba: July
[09:02] <garba> with gnome 2.14.2?
[09:02] <tseng> garba: #ubuntu
[09:02] <mdz> with Windows Vista
[09:02] <ogra> haha
[09:02] <bddebian> hehe
[09:03] <garba> :) funny
[09:03] <Keybuk> mdz: http://www.wcities.com/en/cat/121/1/category.html
[09:03] <garba> well i was just wondering if there's some cvs patch somewhere that's why im asking here in the dev channel
[09:04] <Kamion> janimo: dunno why it'd be trying to get installed; if you put the syslog somewhere I can figure it out
[09:04] <mdz> Keybuk: "Late/24-Hour"
[09:04] <Kamion> mdz: I had a post-rc section under bugs already; you can move stuff down from that if you like
[09:04] <ogra> garba, see topic, we prepare a release candidate atm ...
[09:04] <Keybuk> mdz: several of those are 24hr
[09:04] <mdz> Vingt Quatre is legitimately 24-hour, i've been htere
[09:04] <Keybuk> a few down the fulham road are
[09:06] <Kamion> Riddell: yes, we'll be rebuilding once all the stuff is through the publisher
[09:07] <Kamion> mdz: we so should have had a BreezyReleaseRadar, and then we'd have been talking about BRR
[09:07] <Kamion> o/~ I got chills, they're multiplying o/~
[09:08] <ogra> heh
[09:08] <bddebian> uhm
[09:08] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'm looking forwards to the EdgyReleaseRadar
[09:08] <infinity> Kamion: You're losing your mind again.
[09:08] <ogra> haha
[09:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: will be very appropriate, considering the release mandate
[09:08] <Kamion> "err, yeah, whatever"
[09:08] <infinity> Kamion: There's another week of this to go, you can't go completely nuts yet.
[09:08] <ogra> stop making me spill my coffe over the whie ibook
[09:09] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'm still seriously considering suggesting we don't have a UVF for edgy, and just stick everything in until the last minute <g>
[09:09] <Kamion> instead of "rigid and boring", I propose "flaccid and eyebrow-raising"
[09:09] <bddebian> Keybuk: I like it! :-)
[09:09] <ogra> yeah
[09:10] <Kamion> Riddell: have you sorted out the Kubuntu alternate CD overflow?
[09:10] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: saw what Kamion said wrt ltsp?can you get the log?thanks
[09:10] <Riddell> Kamion: I don't see an overflow
[09:11] <mdz> infinity: I eyeballed the pending builds and I don't see anything there which goes on the CD
[09:11] <Kamion> Riddell: check report.html, it's unfortunately kinda hidden
[09:11] <Keybuk> Riddell: ppc kubuntu is kinda missing language-support-en :)
[09:11] <Kamion> I imagine it just needs a language-pack-ectomy
[09:11] <Kamion> (in ship)
[09:11] <infinity> mdz: So, after this publisher run (which is getting us ubiquity and some -meta stuff), you want to just call it gold, and start rolling new candidates?
[09:11] <Kamion> which fortunately does not require a new upload
[09:12] <infinity> mdz: We'll miss OOo, due to... Whatever's going on with rosetta, but otherwise looking good.
[09:12] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, I've not seen what you wrote about ltsp, which log file do you need, all?
[09:12] <Riddell> Kamion: has the build process changed to block overflows then?
[09:12] <Kamion> Riddell: I'll explain later, but it's been like this for quite a long time
[09:12] <Riddell> Kamion: any way to find out how much it's overflowed?
[09:12] <Kamion> certain types of overflows don't show up properly; I consider it a cdimage bug
[09:13] <Kamion> Riddell: yes, check the CD build log on http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/ and look for "CD 2"
[09:13] <Kamion> Riddell: (ignore the "CD 2" that shows up while building source CDs; that one doesn't matter)
[09:13] <ogra> better for "CD 2 will only"
[09:13] <ogra> else you jump through all the source stuff
[09:14] <Kamion> thanks ogra, yes
[09:15] <LaserJock> :)
[09:15] <Riddell> CD 2 will only be filled with 68259614 bytes  so I'm 68 megs over?
[09:15] <ogra> looks like
[09:16] <Kamion> yes
[09:16] <ogra> Riddell, http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/langpacksize.txt kind of helpful
[09:16] <Kamion> although that may be slightly off due to however far CD 1 was from the actual limit
[09:16] <Kamion> 68259614 - (736051200 - size-of-CD-1)
[09:17] <Riddell> I guess all language packs up to sv is quit optimistic
[09:17] <Riddell> quite
[09:17] <Kamion> yeah :)
[09:18] <ogra> heh, yes
[09:18] <Kamion> although it's not all up to sv, you have all up to ms (I think) and then sv
[09:18] <Kamion> my god that's a lot of binaries to new
[09:20] <mdke> ogra: coffee is generally bad for even coffee coloured laptops :)
[09:21] <infinity> Don't discourage the boy.  And excuse to not buy Apple products is a good one, no matter how flimsy the logic.
[09:21] <ogra> mdke, yeah, i'll get an outdoor lappie next time ...
[09:21] <infinity> s/And/Any/
[09:21] <mdke> infinity: good point
[09:21] <ogra> infinity, i have it only for ppc testing and its the handy small one i have 
[09:22] <ogra> its easier to carry around ... if i had the choice back then i'd have bought an ibm
[09:22] <infinity> Well, I still want a quad-core G5, but I think that's just some sort of penis size thing.
[09:23] <ogra> heh
[09:23] <ogra> get a porsche ;) heals everything
[09:23] <mdke> i have a question about release numbers. We're making a website for documentation, and we have a tab for each release (5.10, 6.06 etc). We'd like to leave out the "LTS" from the 6.06 tab, is there some kind of official logic that means we should do one or the other?
[09:23] <infinity> mdke: mdz may override this, but from how we're using numbers elsewhere, I think "6.06" when it's JUST a number, and "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS" when it's a product name.
[09:24] <mdke> infinity: it's basically just a number - a test page is http://help.ubuntu.com/5.10/
[09:24] <infinity> That seems to make sense and be consistent with how other things (like launchpad and LSB) display the info.
[09:24] <mdke> infinity: so scrapping the LTS from the top right tabs would be reasonable?
[09:25] <infinity> Well, it also allows for more tabs, so I can see the design argument for it. :)
[09:25] <mdke> yeah, it will help for 60.06
[09:25] <ogra> heh
[09:25] <infinity> I'm hardly the final word on it, but I like "LTS" when used as a product name for marketing purposes.
[09:26] <mdke> ok, thanks
[09:26] <infinity> For pure versioning, "5.04, 5.10, 6.06, 6.10" is much easier to parse without throwing a random LTS in the mix.
[09:26] <mdke> yeah, it looks rather odd
[09:26] <mdke> haha
[09:27] <mdz> infinity: in that context, I'd keep the LTS
[09:27] <mdz> mdke: ^^
[09:27] <infinity> mdz: Kay.  Your call.
[09:27] <mdke> ah.
[09:27] <mdz> especially when listing a sequence of versions, since then it's clear which are long-term releases
[09:27] <infinity> Okay, that argument makes some sense.
[09:27] <Kamion> in directory names I think bare 6.06 is OK
[09:27] <mdke> mdz: do you think the reader will get a bit confused by the random letters?
[09:27] <mdke> probly not, I guess it's on his install cd
[09:27] <mdz> when we're looking back over 10 releases it'll be handy to see at a glance which ones are still relevant;-)
[09:28] <infinity> mdke: Not if each LTS page explains what LTS means. :)
[09:28] <Kamion> use <abbr>
[09:28] <infinity> mdke: Or even just the mouseover on the tab itself could say "Long Term Support"
[09:29] <mdke> infinity: I'm not that keen to get into mouseovers... but I'm sure we'll figure something out
[09:29] <mdke> thanks mdz
[09:29] <Kamion> <abbr title="Long-Term Support">LTS</abbr>
[09:29] <infinity> mdz: So, does that mean we're pretty convinced that we'll stick with this nomenclature for the forseeable future?  (ie: at least long enough to get one more LTS release out)
[09:29] <Kamion> if moin supports that
[09:29] <mdz> Kamion: I can reproduce infinity's loop with two disks in vmware
[09:30] <Kamion> mdz: right, that'll give me something to look at
[09:30] <mdke> Kamion: it's not only moin, lots are static pages, and pages built from docbook. But I will investigate that. it should work
[09:30] <Kamion> mdz: want me to start looking at it straight away, in the event that we have to re-roll for something else?
[09:30] <infinity> mdz: Ahh, great.  Nice to know I don't have such completely insane hardware that I'd have to "just cope". :)
[09:30] <mdz> infinity: you're asking me to predict something which is farther in the future than Ubuntu goes into the past ;-)
[09:31] <bddebian> heh
[09:31] <infinity> Kamion: I can handle the rolling of images and such, if that'll free you up to keep attacking ubiquity.
[09:31] <mdz> Kamion: worth a look to see how invasive the fix will be
[09:31] <infinity> mdz: Be a visionary, man!
[09:31] <Kamion> mdz,sfllaw: applying a dose of realism, I don't think I'm going to get my testing/current stuff done - it was only netboot and upgrades anyway
[09:31] <ogra> mdz, he just wants to test your confidence :)
[09:32] <Kamion> I haven't even got as far down as the "merely very urgent and extremely important" work today
[09:32] <bddebian> ogra: :-)
[09:33] <infinity> mdz: Publisher's all done.  Shall we start on new livefses for everyone and all that?
[09:34] <ogra> infinity, yes (for edubuntu at least)
[09:34] <mdz> infinity: yes please
[09:34] <mdz> infinity: confirmed that oo.o and ubiquity made it?
[09:34] <infinity> mdz: No OOo.  That's what was hanging the publisher.  malcc and cprov investigating.
[09:35] <infinity> mdz: Do we want to wait for it, or just leave it behind?
[09:35] <infinity> mdz: ubiquity's definitely in, though.
[09:35] <sfllaw> Kamion: :(
[09:35] <sfllaw> Kamion: Thanks for telling me.
[09:36] <_ion> If i recorded a version of http://johan.kiviniemi.name/music/ion-schizophrenia-prev1.ogg with a band (singer, piano, drums, bass, guitar) during this week, would it be considered for inclusion to the example-content package?
[09:36] <ploum> is there a list of accepted Ubuntu SoC somewhere ? (I'm just curious)
[09:36] <mdz> infinity: argh
[09:36] <mdz> infinity: ok
[09:36] <mdz> infinity: go ahead with it
[09:36] <sfllaw> Kamion: Could you try to find someone else with a PPC machine?
[09:36] <Riddell> Kamion: is it possible to do kubuntu installs with netboot now?
[09:36] <Kamion> Riddell: if you know the runes, it always has been
[09:36] <Kamion> let me dig them up
[09:37] <Riddell> _ion: I'm afraid not
[09:37] <infinity> mdz: Hrm.  The soyuz guys claim it "might work" now...
[09:37] <_ion> riddell: Ok.
[09:37] <ogra> sfllaw, i can do some ubuntu ppc testing tomorrow, but tonight i'm completely demoted to edubuntu and i have no ubuntu isos here yet 
[09:38] <Kamion> Riddell: actually, just preseed/url=http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/debian-cd/ubuntu/data/dapper/preseed/kubuntu/kubuntu.seed should do it
[09:38] <Kamion> (yay bzr side-effects)
[09:38] <Riddell> Kamion: I'll give it a shot
[09:38] <Riddell> rsyncing these full ISO images is going slow
[09:39] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks, that would cover the netboot case pretty well
[09:39] <sfllaw> ogra: Thanks!
[09:39] <Kamion> if it works
[09:39] <Kamion> sfllaw: I can do some between RC and release, I just seem snowed under until RC
[09:40] <sfllaw> Kamion: Thanks.
[09:40] <infinity> mdz: Looks like this fresh publisher run didn't hiccup in that spot.  So, OOo will be ready for i386 in ~20 mins.
[09:40] <mdz> infinity: sweet!
[09:40] <infinity> mdz: I started livefs builds on all other arches, we can hold off on i386 until it's ready.
[09:41] <infinity> Does kubuntu ship openoffice?
[09:41] <infinity> If not, I can build that one now.
[09:41] <Kamion> infinity: it does
[09:41] <infinity> Oh, dang.
[09:41] <infinity> edubuntu?
[09:41] <ogra> yep
[09:41] <infinity> Bah.  Screw you all. :)
[09:41] <mdz> I don't think xubuntu does
[09:41] <mdz> well, not in the livefs
[09:41] <Kamion> xubuntu has it in ship, not desktop
[09:41] <infinity> Yeah, but are we building/testing xubuntu images right now?
[09:42] <mdz> only if janimo is around ;-)
[09:42] <infinity> Right, I'll just twiddle my i386 thumbs then.
[09:42] <Riddell> infinity: yes
[09:43] <infinity> Kamion: Hrm.  Is it intentional that you haven't disabled lithium's crontab?
[09:44] <Kamion> infinity: hadn't quite seemed necessary yet - but I've disabled it now
[09:44] <infinity> Heh.  Kay. :)
[09:44] <omeg> Huh.
[09:44] <omeg> I made a wikipage earlier and now it's gone.
[09:45] <infinity> wiki gremlins.
[09:45] <omeg> I guess it was deleted for not being structured in the way wikipages usually are. I want to restructure the art team's page.
[09:45] <bddebian> infinity is in rare form today :-)
[09:45] <omeg> He's probably all fired up for release.
[09:46] <omeg> Committed to working non-stop until June 1st.
[09:46] <bddebian> heh
[09:46] <bddebian> Heya zul
[09:49] <infinity> mdz: The more I look at the release announcements for both nvidia-glx and fglrx, the more I think we should do them post-RC, not post-final... They claim to fix some of the more hideous outstanding bugs we have, and if they still work on a few machines, that's really all we can ever hope for anyway.
[09:50] <infinity> mdz: ATI even claims to now "officially support Xorg 7.0", whatever that's meant to mean.
[09:51] <Kamion> infinity: http://librarian.launchpad.net/2906199/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-hppa.wormux_0.7-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <-- what's that segfault?
[09:51] <zul> hey bddebian 
[09:51] <infinity> Kamion: hppa kernel b0rkage, probably.  <looking>
[09:52] <infinity> Kamion: Yup.  Giving back.  Thanks.
[09:53] <Kamion> infinity: want me to keep flagging those, or will you mass-process them?
[09:53] <infinity> Kamion: If you have a list, sure.  Elsewise, I'll just mass-give-back on hppa as soon as RC is out the door.
[09:53] <Kamion> I don't, I'm just going through NEW and checking in cases where there aren't ready-made batches of 6
[09:54] <infinity> If you have more, feel free to point 'em out.
[09:54] <infinity> I go through hppa's failed list from time to time to try to avoid mass-give-backs, but I miss some here and there.
[09:54] <bddebian> Hmm, what can I throw up just to keep you guys busy? ;-P
[09:56] <mdz> infinity: happy to consider it; let's review when the dust settles
[09:57] <infinity> mdz: Kay.  I'll prepare them tomorrow and test locally on the nvidia and ati hardware I have here, and if that looks good, tap your shoulder for consideration.
[09:57] <Riddell> Kamion: I updated the ship seed for language pack size
[09:59] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks
[09:59] <Kamion> infinity: I'm good to build alternate images, right?
[09:59] <Kamion> if so, I'll kick off Kubuntu so that we can check the size fix
[09:59] <infinity> Kamion: Only if we don't want OOo on them....
[09:59] <ogra> Kamion, ooo
[10:00] <infinity> Kamion: I was waiting for the publisher to finish.
[10:00] <Kamion> right; one more publisher run then?
[10:00] <Kamion> let me know when
[10:00] <infinity> Kamion: Just built fresh -server images, since those are the only ones with OOo. :)
[10:00] <infinity> s/with/without/
[10:00] <Kamion> heh
[10:01] <janimo> mdz, I am around
[10:01] <infinity> Go, apt-ftparchive, go!
[10:01] <janimo> there's a ltsp problem with the xubuntu install iso thiugh
[10:02] <mdz> mvo: is it known that update-notifier pops up during an update-manager dist-upgrade?
[10:02] <mdz> janimo: what's the problem?
[10:03] <janimo> mdz, ltsp packages are not in the install or deskto seed, but it tries to get installed nonetheless
[10:03] <janimo> ltsp packagea are in ship though
[10:03] <ogra> janimo, i thought you mande a special seed file for it
[10:03] <ogra> janimo, if you still run ltsp-client-builder it will try to 
[10:04] <janimo> ogra, nope, it is to be done (if done for dapper) by a special cd image parameter since there are only 5 packages which I understood are not worth making a new seed for
[10:04] <janimo> ogra, client builder is in ship so it should not run
[10:04] <janimo> I moved it over when I got the errors last time
[10:05] <ogra> drop client builder... its only usefule in the installer 
[10:05] <janimo> so no idea what it is really.And I updated the xubuntu-desktop too since
[10:05] <ogra> there is no value for having it in ship ...
[10:06] <ogra> (its three commands to set up ltsp post install ...)
[10:06] <janimo> ogra, ok did not know that.The rest of lstp packages are to be in ship or in that special seed if it existed?
[10:06] <Loevborg> (I hope you don't find this inapropriate) Does anyone know if there's a Ubuntu developer located in Munich or not far away?
[10:06] <janimo> if the latter I'll just remove them from the seeds allgether
[10:06] <ogra> s/them/ltsp-client-builder.udeb/
[10:07] <ogra> keep ltsp-server, ltsp-server-standalone, ltsp-client and ldm in ship
[10:07] <mdz> only 7 pending builds, all sparc
[10:07] <Loevborg> I'm asking because a journalist friend of mind is looking to have an interview because of the upcoming release.
[10:08] <infinity> mdz: Publisher run done, firing up i386 builds.
[10:08] <infinity> Kamion: If you want to do alternate builds, go nuts.
[10:08] <Kamion> kubuntu alternate building
[10:08] <janimo> Kamion, bug 46426
[10:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46426 in debian-installer "Xubuntu install CD install ltsp" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46426
[10:09] <mdz> infinity: woo
[10:09] <janimo> it has the xubuntu syslog which has ltsp package mentioned in it
[10:09] <ogra> janimo, not helpful ... for ltsp debugging the messages file is needed
[10:09] <Kamion> ogra: rubbish
[10:10] <ogra> (i should rename it to ltsp.log or something in eft)
[10:10] <janimo> ogra, not ltsp needs to be debugged, but why it is to be installed in the first place :)
[10:10] <mdz> Kamion: is there an update-manager upload waiting in the queue for breezy-updates? if so, please process it
[10:10] <Kamion> you don't need to debug ltsp itself, only why it's being installed
[10:10] <ogra> Kamion, oh, right
[10:10] <ogra> sorry
[10:10] <janimo> infinity: nothing is holding up xubuntu desktop CD, whenever you get around it is ok
[10:11] <infinity> janimo: I'll sping your livefses after the others complete.
[10:11] <infinity> s/sping/spin/
[10:11] <infinity> Why do my fingers always add a "g" to the end of that?
[10:11] <infinity> Bizarre.
[10:11] <dholbach> infinity: because of "ping"?
[10:12] <mdz> infinity: from typing 'ping' 80 times per day for your entire life
[10:12] <infinity> dholbach: That may be it.
[10:12] <dholbach> mdz: I'd love to see update-manager tarball download stats for the last days - your idea of writing a blog entry was a good one.
[10:12] <mdz> the same reason I can't type the word 'launched' anymore
[10:12] <Kamion> oh, damn, ltsp-client-builder is still Priority: standard
[10:12] <Kamion> I noticed that after breezy and obviously totally forgot to fix it
[10:12] <infinity> mdz: You should have seen the trouble I had typing "apt-key".. It always came out as "apt-get^H^H^Hkey"...
[10:13] <infinity> Kamion: Was that "the thing that we couldn't fix in the archive without breaking somehting for someone somehow"?
[10:14] <ogra> Kamion, should that be optional ? 
[10:14] <Kamion> infinity: we couldn't fix it in breezy, but it would just take a cdimage tweak to fix it in dapper
[10:14] <Kamion> ogra: needs a cdimage tweak and a bit of testing
[10:14] <infinity> Kamion: Right, "couldn't fix for breezy", I meant.
[10:15] <ogra> Kamion, ok, i thought i could change it quickly since my install isos are RC ready an additional ltsp upload wouldnt do any harm to me ...
[10:15] <mdz> Kamion: how did it end up priority: standard in the first place?
[10:15] <infinity> ogra: Uploads aren't required to change priorities.
[10:15] <infinity> ogra: That's why the archive has overrides.
[10:15] <Kamion> mdz: it needs to be in order to work in edubuntu at preset
[10:15] <mdz> infinity: and the .deb itself is priority: optional anyway
[10:15] <Kamion> present
[10:16] <Kamion> it won't be sucked into the installer otherwise
[10:16] <ogra> infinity, oh i thought thats about the debian/control entry
[10:16] <Kamion> what IIRC we need to do is to use anna/choose-modules in the edubuntu preseed file
[10:16] <Kamion> but I need to check that
[10:16] <Kamion> mdz: update-manager/breezy accepted
[10:17] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[10:17] <mdz> I'll confirm the version number fix shortly
[10:19] <mdz> that is, once it's published...doh
[10:20] <Kamion> ogra: which edubuntu boot options are meant to run ltsp-client-builder?
[10:20] <Kamion> ogra: I suspect that at present they all do
[10:20] <ogra> only the default
[10:21] <ogra> workstation definately doesnt
[10:21] <ogra> so you solved it already somehow :)
[10:21] <Kamion> oh, we preseed ltsp-client-builder/run=false for workstation
[10:21] <Kamion> yeah, kind of the wrong way round though
[10:21] <ogra> but a workaround fro xubuntu probably ...
[10:22] <Kamion> in general stuff works best if all installer packages behave in the Ubuntu-default way by default
[10:22] <Kamion> it would be, yes, but I want to fix this in dapper
[10:22] <ogra> ok
[10:22] <Kamion> rather than forgetting about it for another release :)
[10:22] <Kamion> because it breaks Ubuntu netboot
[10:22] <Kamion> i.e. Ubuntu netboot installs of breezy and (current) dapper run ltsp-client-builder
[10:22] <ogra> ugh
[10:23] <mdz> Kamion: eek
[10:23] <Kamion> we could change the ltsp-client-builder default, but I think it's neater to drop its priority
[10:23] <Kamion> mdz: I noticed when we were doing soyuz acceptance tests
[10:24] <Kamion> it was one of my "it does WHAT? oh, hang on, it does that with katie too ..." moment
[10:24] <Kamion> s
[10:24] <Kamion> hmm, preseed/file is not usable for anna preseeding. this will be a little more complicated.
[10:27] <astronut> i don't want to disable folding completely, just for changelogs
[10:28] <astronut> err, wrong line
[10:28] <Kamion> mdz: I will need to upload ltsp-client-builder after all, so how about I upload it but let it sit until after RC?
[10:28] <astronut> how do you disable changelog folding in the new vim?
[10:28] <dholbach> Good night fellas.
[10:28] <Kamion> I'll have to change the default for ltsp-client-builder/run; it's the only sane approach I can think of
[10:29] <infinity> Kamion: Which images have you built?  Just kubuntu alternate?
[10:29] <Kamion> infinity: yes; I'll keep going
[10:29] <Kamion> Ubuntu alternate building
[10:29] <infinity> Kamion: Kay, cool.
[10:30] <infinity> Kamion: I'll start in with livecd builds in parallel as the livefses become ready.
[10:31] <ogra> Kamion, bzr: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/dapper/
[10:31] <Kamion> ogra: thanks
[10:33] <infinity> ubuntu daily-live running.
[10:34] <mvo> Kamion: I just got a strange message during netinst. the partioner said it was unable to create the pations, I just created a new reiserfs parition. do you want me to copy the log? or throw it away and try again to see if I can reproduce it?
[10:34] <Kamion> mvo: please always save logs from strangeness
[10:36] <mdz> Kamion: fine with me
[10:37] <mdz> Kamion: do you want debug and partman logs from the 2-disk loop?
[10:37] <Kamion> mdz: no, it's OK, I've reproduced that
[10:37] <mdz> ok
[10:40] <mdz> what is irssi doing in desktop, and how did I not notice until now?
[10:40] <ogra> mdz, was always there ? 
[10:40] <infinity> mdz: It's been there forever.
[10:40] <mdke> it's a replacement for xchat-gnome
[10:40] <ogra> haha
[10:41] <ogra> mdke, what replaces gaim then on the console ? 
[10:41] <mdke> ogra: god knows
[10:41] <mvo> haha
[10:41] <infinity> centericq, but I'll be damned if I'll support that.
[10:41] <ogra> telnet ? 
[10:41] <mdke> has anyone running a localised desktop got a few minutes to test something for me?
[10:41] <mdke> *few seconds
[10:41] <Kamion> ogra: ok, if you could merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/ltsp/installer-fix/, I'd appreciate it, thanks; I've deployed the change to cdimage that makes Edubuntu keep on working despite that
[10:42] <Kamion> or I can upload it myself if you prefer
[10:42] <mdz> ogra,infinity: that doesn't answer *either* of my questions :-P
[10:42] <ogra> Kamion, i'll do it, youre busy enough nowadays, thanks
[10:42] <thom> ogra: bitlbee, clearly
[10:42] <infinity> mdz: It's probably cruft from back when "ubuntu-desktop" meant "install everything that the Ubuntu devs have on their machines and use every day"
[10:43] <bddebian> heh
[10:43] <infinity> mdz: It should probably go, since people who want it will know what it's called and how to get it.
[10:43] <thom> it went in for the same reason mutt did, iirc
[10:43] <thom> to enable console users to have a sane experience
[10:43] <Kamion> ogra: cheers, appreciate it
[10:44] <infinity> mdz: I could see an argument that it would be useful to get support on IRC if your X is broken... But OTOH, same thing.  If you don't know what it is, you'll never discover it and run it.  If yo udo know what it is, you can install it.
[10:44] <mdz> infinity,Mithrandir: aaarrgghh
[10:44] <mdz> oo.o Impress and Calc are both named "Spreadsheet" now
[10:44] <infinity> ...
[10:44] <mdz> so we get to do this dance again after RC
[10:45] <ogra> ouch
[10:45] <Kamion> ogra: oh, you could close bug 46426 in that changelog too
[10:45] <infinity> So close...
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46426 in ltsp "Xubuntu install CD install ltsp" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46426
[10:45] <ogra> Kamion, will do :)
[10:45] <infinity> mdz: I'll be sure to convey your "aaarrgghh" to Mithrandir when he wakes up.
[10:46] <mdke> infinity: out of curiosity, are these openoffice changes requiring fresh translation?
[10:47] <infinity> mdke: Requiring?  No.  The old strings will suffice.  But people offering new translations for the .desktop files between now and... Uhh... 24 hours from now won't be turned down.
[10:47] <infinity> .desktop files don't fuzz, so it's not critical.
[10:47] <mdke> infinity: oh, I thought that was all in rosetta nowadays
[10:47] <mdke> oh, so old strings aren't lost, np
[10:48] <Kamion> janimo: could you move ltsp-client-builder from your ship seed to your installer seed? it doesn't make a practical difference, but it makes more sense to keep all the udebs in installer
[10:50] <janimo> Kamion: will do. So it won;t install in default mode right?
[10:50] <janimo> and is it feasible to add a ltsp-specific boot menu entry to the CD after RC?
[10:50] <Kamion> janimo: it will for the RC, but the fix that ogra has in hand now will make it not do that for release
[10:50] <ogra> only if you preseed ltsp-client-builder/run=true
[10:50] <Kamion> janimo: yes, certainly, sorry I haven't got round to it today
[10:50] <janimo> np
[10:51] <Kamion> ogra: the boot menu entry can be attached to a preseed file that does that, yes
[10:51] <ogra> thats cool
[10:51] <ogra> i sometimes get requests from people wanting to build derivatives ...
[10:51] <ogra> (with ltsp setup)
[10:54] <janimo> ogra, is openssh-server helpful to have in seed to for ltsp?
[10:55] <ogra> s/helpful/essential ;)
[10:55] <janimo> ok, then I leave it there :)
[10:55] <ogra> our setup requires it (even you *could* set up our ltsp to use xdmcp, but who wants that :) )
[10:55] <janimo> I got the impression last time if was not strictly required
[10:56] <ogra> its only suggested by ltsp-server 
[10:56] <ogra> but thats because you *could* use ltsp differently
[10:57] <ogra> i tend to agree it should be a dependency, but mdz had some valid arguments against making it a hard dep iirc
[10:58] <ogra> (setting it up for xdmcp would at least require to drop ldm and install gdm manually as well as other manual fiddling)
[11:03] <infinity> Kamion: If you want to spin alternates for edubuntu and xubuntu too, I'm covering all the -server (done) and -desktop (half done, pending FS builds) bases.
[11:04] <crimsun> Applications> Office  lists "OpenOffice.Org Spreadsheet" twice (the second should be Impress's)
[11:05] <infinity> crimsun: We know. :/
[11:05] <crimsun> (sorry, just updated )
[11:05] <Keybuk> I think my eyes are going weird
[11:05] <Keybuk> I can't tell which way up this CDR is supposed to go
[11:08] <ogra> wow
[11:08] <infinity> Kamion: Actually, nevermind, I'll do all the pending alternate builds too.
[11:08] <ogra> Kamion, does UNRELEASED in the debian/changelog file come from your vim ? 
[11:08] <ogra> or is bzr doing such stuff now ? 
[11:08] <infinity> ogra: From him.
[11:09] <ogra> ah
[11:09] <infinity> ogra: Unless he has some fancy changelog mode that does it for him.
[11:09] <infinity> (It's standard Debian fare for "This is a CVS version, if I accidentally upload it, katie will reject it")
[11:09] <ogra> ah
[11:09] <ogra> i've never seen it before
[11:09] <Keybuk> infinity: semi-standard
[11:09] <Keybuk> given dch, vim and emacs all do it differently
[11:09] <ogra> but then i always use dch -i
[11:10] <infinity> Keybuk: Anything with more than 5 users in Debian is "standard" :)
[11:10] <Keybuk> fair point
[11:10] <Keybuk>        Two different sets of heuristics can be  used,  as  controlled  by  the
[11:10] <Keybuk>        --release-heuristic  option or the DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC configu
[11:10] <Keybuk>        ration variable. 
[11:10] <thom> is the corollary to that that anything Keybuk uses is non-standard?
[11:11] <Keybuk> thom: I set the NEW standards!
[11:11] <thom> new standards in massacring my terminal, maybe
[11:12] <Keybuk> how did I massacre your terminal?
[11:12] <infinity> The long dash.
[11:12] <thom> whatever that was in "DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC configu..."
[11:12] <infinity> Came out here as an inverted @P
[11:12] <Keybuk> heh
[11:12] <Keybuk> you can blame Kamion for that one
[11:12] <Keybuk> it came out of groff
[11:12] <thom> ah, utf-8 hyphen?
[11:12] <Keybuk> must be
[11:13] <Keybuk> U+2010 HYPHEN
[11:13] <Keybuk> yeah
[11:13] <Keybuk> so this "new standard" to "massacre your terminal" would appear to be UTF-8
[11:13] <Keybuk> I keep forgetting how far behind FreeBSD is ;)
[11:13] <thom> yeah yeah
[11:14] <thom> i've not figured out what part of the unholy freebsd/screen/irssi trinity is responsible
[11:14] <Keybuk> "thom"
[11:14] <thom> hush.
[11:14] <thom> :P
[11:15] <sfllaw> thom: It's definitely not screen or irssi.  That works fine here.  It's probably something in your terminal and lower.
[11:15] <Keybuk> ogra: btw, your splash screen looks the best
[11:15] <sfllaw> s/and/or/
[11:15] <ogra> Keybuk, usplash or gnome ? 
[11:15] <Keybuk> gnome
[11:15] <Keybuk> the usplash one looks like someone weed on it
[11:16] <ogra> heh
[11:16] <ogra> Keybuk, look at the alternate wallpaper ;) its cool
[11:16] <thom> sfllaw: mmm, it works occasionally and then with the same terminal doesn't work at others, so i'm not so sure
[11:16] <Keybuk> ogra: the Edubuntu Young one?
[11:16] <ogra> Keybuk, yeah
[11:17] <Keybuk> it is cool
[11:17] <ogra> we have a JaneW from the same artist http://www.progbox.co.uk/jane.jpg
[11:17] <Keybuk> I shall recommend Edubuntu to all my paedophile friends ;)
[11:17] <Keybuk> heh, did he do you too?
[11:17] <ogra> only the former version, it had the edubuntu girl
[11:17] <ogra> nope, not yet, and its a she :)
[11:17] <Keybuk> now, why do we not have this icon theme on the real distro?
[11:17] <ogra> gartoon ? 
[11:17] <ogra> no idea
[11:18] <Keybuk> and how did you manage to get an entire icon set designed, when ubuntu can't manage a single icon?
[11:18] <ogra> it was already there ;)
[11:18] <Keybuk> ah, cheating
[11:19] <Burgwork> Keybuk, I believe gartoon is jimmacs work
[11:19] <ogra> nope
[11:21] <ogra> Burgwork, a guy from nl calling himself zeus did it
[11:21] <ogra> http://zeus.qballcow.nl/icons.php
[11:21] <Burgwork> ogra, hmm, indeed. jimmac did gorilla
[11:22] <ogra> yep
[11:22] <bddebian> Later folks
[11:22] <ogra> hmm, while looking at his page ... i should look at his blankon theme for edgy looks nice
[11:22] <Keybuk> I have a nasty thought what may have run cron
[11:23] <Keybuk> I think the first time I ran the installer, it thought the time zone was New York
[11:23] <Keybuk> when I changed it to London, I wonder whether that instantly applied the time change
[11:23] <Keybuk> no, it doesn't appear to
[11:25] <Kamion> ogra: as it happened I did it by hand, but that's only because my 'uch' alias overrides dch's defaults
[11:25] <infinity> Kamion: Still around/alive?
[11:25] <infinity> Oh, so you are.  TIMING.
[11:26] <infinity> Kamion: I'm doing the alternate builds along with the live builds, so you're off the hook there... BUT...
[11:26] <Mirv> thom: at least you should have screen -U, irssi v. 0.8.10 and term_charset to UTF-8 (same for your terminal program).. at least in that case irssi wouldn't be the problem, old/buggy screen or old/buggy terminal could be
[11:26] <ogra> Kamion, i was just wondering, bever saw that anywhere
[11:26] <infinity> Kamion: Something seriously odd seems to have happened to the kubuntu builds.
[11:26] <Kamion> infinity: er - don't please?
[11:26] <ogra> Kamion, uploaded to the queue btw
[11:26] <thom> Mirv: aye
[11:26] <mantas_> hi all, maybe someone could tell me how many hours is left for uploading fixed translations to ubuntu dapper ?
[11:26] <Kamion> infinity: ?
[11:26] <Kamion> mantas_: none
[11:26] <infinity> Kamion: Err, don't why?
[11:27] <Kamion> infinity: don't build xubuntu - I want to install a workaround for the ltsp thing
[11:27] <infinity> Kamion: Oh.  A bit late, but it can build again. :/
[11:27] <infinity> Kamion: Your kubuntu build, however, looks... Not happy.
[11:27] <infinity> Kamion: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/20060524.1/
[11:28] <Riddell> looks ok to me
[11:28] <Keybuk> sfllaw: I'm quite happy doing much ppc testing, though mine is probably the slowest in existance, so it takes a while
[11:28] <sfllaw> Keybuk: Thanks!
[11:28] <ogra> Riddell, report.html
[11:28] <infinity> Riddell: Which part of "there's nothing in that directory" looks okay to you? :)
[11:28] <Kamion> it's still oversized
[11:28] <Kamion> infinity: you must have caught it mid-mirroring
[11:28] <ogra> infinity, its there, youre to fast
[11:28] <ogra> :)
[11:29] <mantas_> Kamion, but in release roadmap deadline is 25 may, not 24
[11:29] <infinity> Ctrl-R really should resolve that..
[11:29] <infinity> Maybe the mirror I'm stuck on is unhappy.
[11:29] <ogra> infinity, i get caught by it very often dont worry youre not alone :)
[11:29] <Kamion> mantas_: for language packs, yes
[11:29] <infinity> ogra: Fair enough. :)
[11:29] <Kamion> mantas_: you said "upload" which I thought meant some other package
[11:29] <Kamion> i.e. non-langpack
[11:30] <mantas_> Kamion, no, I'm about uploading fixed .po files into rosseta ;)
[11:30] <Kamion> mantas_: for langpacks, I don't believe we have set a precise number of hours.
[11:30] <Kamion> mantas_: and in any event langpack changes can and will happen after release too
[11:31] <mantas_> Kamion, so, aproximatly when ubuntu team will build last langpack for ubuntu dapper final version ?
[11:31] <Kamion> Riddell: looks like you're 12+, 14+, 25+ MB oversized
[11:31] <Kamion> mantas_: the person responsible for that (pitti) is not here
[11:32] <Kamion> so we cannot ask him
[11:32] <ogra> and its a public holiday tomorrow here, i guess he wont be around wither
[11:32] <ogra> *either
[11:33] <mdz> is anyone else getting a BADSIG on the current dapper Release?
[11:33] <sfllaw> So apparently doko is ill.  Can anyone take over his Alternative CD testing for i386?
[11:33] <infinity> Kamion: Okay, my premature xubuntu-daily build is done (along with edubuntu-daily)... Sorry about that.  The floor is yours.
[11:33] <mantas_> ok, as I understand I still have at least 12 hours for uploading fixed translations and pitti will build langpacks from these translations after holiday :)
[11:33] <infinity> Kamion: I'll just polish off the livecd builds.
[11:33] <Keybuk> mdz: I didn't a few minutes ago
[11:33] <mdz> Mark and I both did just now
[11:33] <Kamion> infinity: oh, hmm, we want sparc on releases for RC
[11:33] <Keybuk> mdz: elmo's cache of love could have burped?
[11:33] <Kamion> infinity: so it might be helpful if I could arrange for that to land in the right daily directories
[11:33] <Keybuk> mdz: seems ok here
[11:33] <mdz> that cache has been giving me a lot of love lately
[11:34] <mdz> I've never seen it fuck up apt before
[11:34] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I've built all of the ports stuff too.
[11:34] <Kamion> infinity: sorry, I should have done this before this round of builds
[11:34] <infinity> Kamion: We can just twiddle them by hand for now, I figures. :/
[11:34] <Keybuk> mdz: could have grabbed an empty file?
[11:34] <Kamion> infinity: yeah, but it's in the wrong directories which will make publishing inconvenient
[11:34] <infinity> s/figures/figured/
[11:34] <ogra> infinity, oh, edubuntu install wasnt really necessary, was it ? 
[11:35] <infinity> ogra: You uploaded new artwork.  I assumed you wanted it...
[11:35] <ogra> that could have gone in after RC, but well, now its there :)
[11:35] <Kamion> infinity: oh, hang on, it's only for ubuntu-server
[11:35] <Kamion> infinity: so I only need to rebuild that
[11:36] <infinity> Kamion: Which is, conveniently, the fastest build of the bunch.
[11:36] <Kamion> mdz: could you confirm please, dapper-server-sparc on releases.u.c but not any other dapper-*-sparc?
[11:36] <infinity> Kamion: That was what we discussed a day or two ago, yeah.
[11:36] <infinity> Kamion: The LiveCD is broken on sparc, and Mark doesn't want to publish the alternate.
[11:36] <Keybuk> I like how the GTK+ ubiquity doesn't let you click "Install" while it's installing
[11:37] <mdz> Kamion: confirmed
[11:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: er, that window should have gone away while it's installing
[11:37] <Keybuk> Kamion: it does
[11:37] <Keybuk> it _doesn't_ on the KDE one
[11:37] <Kamion> unless you mean something different from what I think you mean
[11:38] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh, yeah, the KDE frontend's window handling around there is very bad
[11:38] <Keybuk> yeah, it lets you get ubi very confused
[11:38] <Kamion> the main window is supposed to go away, and there's only supposed to be a single progress bar not several
[11:38] <Keybuk> it amused me for 0.2s
[11:40] <Keybuk> AHA!  I HAVE CAUGHT THE LIVE CD RUNNING CRON!
[11:40] <Riddell> Keybuk: disappearing windows are confusing according to KDE's usability people
[11:40] <Keybuk> Riddell: windows that let you click their buttons are more confusing, no? :)
[11:41] <mdz> Keybuk: so fix it already :-P
[11:41] <Riddell> I don't disagree there
[11:41] <Keybuk> mdz: I'm trying to find out _how_
[11:41] <Keybuk> it's anacron being run
[11:42] <Keybuk> but, as you say, it's not run at boot
[11:42] <mdz> Keybuk: rm -f /etc/rc?.d/S??cron
[11:42] <Kamion> Riddell: surely a window that will never be used again but that sticks around anyway is more confusing
[11:42] <Kamion> well, never used again except in error cases
[11:42] <StevenK> chmod -x /usr/sbin/cron ? :-P
[11:43] <mdz> removing the S links is the preferred approach; that's what casper does for everything else currently
[11:43] <mdz> this is very trivial to fix
[11:43] <mdz> though I have no idea why cron.daily is running for you, when it's clearly 2243
[11:43] <Keybuk> it's not cron.daily
[11:43] <Keybuk> it's even better
[11:43] <Keybuk> it's cron.monthly
[11:43] <Kamion> doesn't that run at 0652?
[11:44] <mdz> but but but
[11:44] <mdz> I didn't think anacron ran from cron.monthly, but apparently it does
[11:44] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes, but anacron also runs these things at "about 15 minutes after you boot" if it hasn't happened for a while
[11:44] <mdz> anacron is insidious
[11:44] <Keybuk> I'm trying to find what triggers _that_
[11:44] <Keybuk> mdz: part of my secret edgy desires that scare Kamion is to get rid of anacron
[11:44] <Kamion> Keybuk: so anacron must be started at boot, surely?
[11:44] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes, but casper takes care of that
[11:44] <Kamion> even if it's just lying dormant
[11:45] <Keybuk> oh, wow, anacron ran cron.daily, weekly AND monthly
[11:45] <Keybuk> (just to be on the safe side)
[11:45] <mdz> it runs from cron.daily at 0625, cron.weekly at 0647, cron.monthly at 0652 AND cron.d at 0730!
[11:45] <mdz> Keybuk: none of which are even remotely close to now
[11:45] <Keybuk> mdz: indeed
[11:45] <mdz> Kamion: casper disables anacron's init script, always has
[11:45] <Keybuk> and it's not the system clock being screwy either
[11:45] <Kamion> mdz: right
[11:46] <Keybuk> mdz: if you're logging in remotely and running anacron, you're getting a beating ;)
[11:46] <Kamion> mdz: I mean if it's running, it must have been started somehow ;-)
[11:46] <Keybuk> *blink*
[11:46] <mdz> good thing Mithrandir ported over my casper backdoor
[11:46] <Keybuk> May 24 21:14:48 ubuntu anacron[5345] : Anacron 2.3 started on 2006-05-04
[11:46] <Keybuk> May 24 21:14:48 ubuntu anacron[5345] : Will run job `cron.daily' in 5 min.
[11:46] <Keybuk> May 24 21:14:48 ubuntu anacron[5345] : Will run job `cron.weekly' in 10 min.
[11:46] <Keybuk> May 24 21:14:48 ubuntu anacron[5345] : Will run job `cron.monthly' in 15 min.
[11:47] <Keybuk> May 24 21:14:48 ubuntu anacron[5345] : Jobs will be executed sequentially
[11:47] <Kamion> started on *what* date?
[11:47] <mdz> ...
[11:47] <Keybuk> Kamion: typo
[11:47] <Kamion> oh good
[11:47] <Keybuk> I had to type that ;)
[11:47] <Keybuk> hmmmmmmmmm
[11:47] <Keybuk> I have a thought
[11:48] <mdz> Keybuk: do you have /etc/rc?.d/S*anacron or no?
[11:48] <Keybuk> mdz: I do not
[11:48] <Keybuk> Matthew Garrett may be about to lose his testicles
[11:48] <mdz> !
[11:48] <sfllaw> Hmm.  I wonder why I can't download any ISOs from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd/current/
[11:48] <Keybuk> sfllaw: because Apache sucks
[11:48] <sfllaw> wget reports "Connection closed at byte 0. Retrying"
[11:48] <sfllaw> Oh.
[11:48] <sfllaw> :(
[11:49] <mdz> Keybuk: apm/event.d/anacron?
[11:49] <Keybuk> mdz: this is what I'm thinking
[11:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: let me guess, you put the power lead back in
[11:49] <sfllaw> Keybuk: rsync isn't giving me much love either.
[11:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: no, but the daemon started
[11:49] <Keybuk> so "noticed" the power lead
[11:49] <mdz> Keybuk: isn't invoke-rc.d smarter than that?
[11:49] <Keybuk> sfllaw: rsync worked for me
[11:49] <sfllaw> There we are.
[11:49] <Riddell> sfllaw: ftp works
[11:49] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, like that stuff uses invoke-rc.d
[11:49] <Kamion> mdz: not unless you have a policy-rc.d
[11:49] <mdz> Keybuk: it does
[11:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: it does
[11:50] <mdz> Kamion: I thought it checked the current runlevel and futzed about with the symlinks
[11:50] <mdz> seems PERFECTLY REASONABLE
[11:50] <infinity> That IS what it does.
[11:50] <Kamion> we should probably make casper create a policy-rc.d
[11:50] <Kamion> in edgy
[11:50] <mdz> infinity: in which case it ought to work...
[11:51] <mdz> sfllaw: keep trying; Znarl said it was only one server in the rotation I think
[11:51] <Kamion> hmm, the invoke-rc.d code does seem to check the symlinks though
[11:52] <Keybuk> except apmd isn't started on PowerPC, is it?
[11:52] <infinity> Yes, it's meant specifically to allow for runlevel futzing...
[11:52] <ogra> sfllaw, btw cat-ing together live and install iso and rsyncing that gains you a small bit lees download time
[11:52] <infinity> Oh, if it's PPC...
[11:53] <mdz> ogra: it gains a lot in fact
[11:53] <infinity> Keybuk: Anything fishy going on with pbbuttonsd, the increasingly poorly-named daemon?
[11:53] <Keybuk> infinity: pbbuttonsd is the daemon that starts immediately before anacron in my syslog
[11:53] <Keybuk> in fact, it's within a second
[11:53] <Keybuk> which on this machine implies a connection
[11:53] <Keybuk> given it takes a second just to do a write()
[11:53] <mdz> aha
[11:53] <ogra> mdz, well there is still a lot left to download
[11:54] <Keybuk> oh, and look
[11:54] <mdz> Keybuk: sounds like pbbuttonsd is eating your lunch
[11:54] <Keybuk> yeah, pbbuttonsd issues a power event when it starts "because we're on AC power"
[11:54] <infinity> And it doesn't use invoke-rc.d, I assume?
[11:54] <ogra> i thought pitti disabled all PM functions in pbbuttonsd
[11:54] <infinity> Naughty, naughty pbbuttonsd.
[11:55] <Keybuk> pbbuttonsd just calls mjg59's apm stuff
[11:55] <mdz> so invoke-rc.d sucks
[11:55] <infinity> Oh.
[11:55] <mdz> it is the only reasonable explanation
[11:55] <Kamion> yes, this does feel like an invoke-rc.d bug, reading through the code and doing sh -x
[11:56] <infinity> Testing the sucking of invoke-rc.d is easy to do.  sh -x /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d anacron start 
[11:56] <infinity> It really does seem to be written to do what it claims it's meant to do.  It'd be a shame if it doesn't actually work. :)
[11:56] <Keybuk> aha!
[11:56] <Keybuk> actually, invoke-rc.d is behaving correctly
[11:56] <Keybuk> it's SysV that's fucked
[11:57] <Keybuk> casper _removes_ the S* script
[11:57] <Keybuk> it never replaces it with a K* script
[11:57] <mdz> invoke-rc.d can go to hell
[11:57] <Kamion> oh
[11:57] <mdz> that's perfectly valid
[11:57] <Kamion> no S*, no K* => undefined state
[11:57] <Kamion> according to the sysvinit lot
[11:57] <Kamion> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=156161
[11:57] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 156161 in sysvinit "Subject: sysvinit: invoke-rc.d starts daemon when it shouldn't" [Normal,Open]  
[11:57] <mdz> they suck
[11:57] <Kamion> henrique says "put a K link in there"
[11:58] <mdz> henrique can lick my testicles
[11:58] <infinity> I'm inclined to agree with him, actually.
[11:58] <Keybuk> ...it's been a long release
[11:58] <lool> hmm
[11:58] <infinity> Given hoe runlevels work, no symlink means "well, it can go either way.. HAVE FUN!"
[11:58] <infinity> s/hoe/how/
[11:58] <Kamion> right
[11:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45536 in gnome-power-manager "Shutdown, but logoff" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45536
[11:59] <mdz> only for the special case of having an S link in runlevel S and none in the current runlevel
[11:59] <Keybuk> mdz: or switching run levels
[11:59] <infinity> Yeah, some people actually use more than 3 runlevels. :)
[11:59] <Keybuk> switch from 2 to 3, without a K link, and it mayyyy be still running, etc.
[11:59] <Kamion> yes, if you actually USE runlevels, then it matters
[12:00] <Keybuk> oddly, I still do;  I have a runlevel 3 on my laptop that starts all the launchpad crap
[12:00] <infinity> Anyhow, if you really want something to be off in 2, it should have a K.  hmh is right, though I'm sure he'll still lick your testicles.
[12:00] <Keybuk> so I can do "init 3" if there's a chance Mark is going to look over my shoulder
[12:00] <mdz> Keybuk: anyway it's still easy to fix
[12:00] <Keybuk> yes, let's fix casper!
[12:00] <infinity> ogra: edubuntu livecds are ready.
[12:01] <mdz> apmd doesn't seem to be as stupid in this respect as pbbuttonsd
[12:01] <ogra> infinity, thanks ! rsyncing
[12:01] <mdz> or else acpid doesn't run the ampd hooks
[12:01] <infinity> mdz: It's all the same scripts.  It's casper that should just get K links added where it removes S links. :)
[12:02] <mdz> no one noticed for the past year
[12:02] <infinity> rename 's/^S/K/' /etc/rc?.d/S??anacron
[12:02] <mdz> so clearly this is powerpc-specific :-P
[12:02] <mdz> infinity: I suppose casper has already loaded perl...
[12:02] <infinity> Several times.
[12:02] <infinity> adduser is the first, I think.
[12:03] <Keybuk> infinity: pretty much
[12:03] <ogra> woah, still plenty of space on my liveCDs
[12:03] <Keybuk> for STUPID in /root/etc/rc?.d/S??anacron; do
[12:03] <Keybuk>     mv $STUPID $(dirname $STUPID)/K00anacron
[12:03] <Keybuk> done
[12:03] <Keybuk> is what I've done
[12:03] <crimsun> (I presume uploads are being queued presently?)
[12:03] <mdz> K${basename%S} would work too though
[12:03] <ogra> crimsun, /topic ;)
[12:03] <crimsun> ogra: lovely, thanks.
[12:04] <infinity> Kamion: Other than your xubuntu alternate hacking, and whatever you're futzing with WRT -server image placement, I think everything should be (re)built now.
[12:05] <mgalvin> sorry to be a pest... is this going to be the finial rc (hopefully); just wondering when to move the rc doc to the main web site
[12:06] <mdz> I'm testing the new desktop-i386 build now
[12:06] <mdz> mgalvin: we won't know until we've tested it
[12:06] <infinity> mgalvin: We're hoping this will be the real deal, but there's no knowing until we test.
[12:07] <infinity> Hrm.  I think one of the cdimage mirrors is wonky.
[12:07] <mgalvin> right, ok, of course, i was just wondering so I know not to got to far :)
[12:07] <infinity> rsync's giving me the same "some stuff just ain't there" problems that I was getting via http.
[12:08] <mgalvin> thnx guys
[12:08] <Kamion> infinity: ubuntu-server's done, xubuntu alternate building
[12:08] <Kamion> magellanic is being very slow to trigger
[12:08] <Kamion> so it could be overloaded
[12:09] <Kamion> Znarl: ^-- ?
[12:15] <infinity> If I just want translations for console utilities (coreutils, gnupg, etc), what packages do I want?  language-pack-$LANG?
[12:16] <Kamion> yes
[12:16] <infinity> I'm thinking I should flesh out the ubuntu-server ISO before release with some of those.
[12:16] <Kamion> mm, probably a good plan
[12:16] <infinity> We're rather popular in the eastern block, for whatever odd reason, maybe Polish, Czech, Russian, etc would be appreciated.
[12:17] <Burgwork> infinity, as an edgy plan, maybe have cds for "Africa" or "Asia", etc.
[12:17] <Kamion> Burgwork: suggestion comes up about once a month, I'm really uncomfortable with it
[12:17] <infinity> Burgwork: We've discussed localised CDs before, but it's just way too many ISOs to test with a small team.
[12:18] <Burgwork> yep
[12:18] <Kamion> Burgwork: it multiplies our testing effort unacceptably
[12:18] <Burgwork> understandable
[12:18] <infinity> In the case of ubuntu-server, though, I can have my cake and eat it too, since it's so light.
[12:18] <infinity> So I can probably ship a fair number of langpacks.
[12:18] <Burgwork> Kamion, maybe involve a few loco teams?
[12:19] <Burgwork> anyway, this can be discussed later. Now is for release. sorry to bother you all
[12:19] <infinity> A "build your own unsupported ISO" for loco teams to generate something they can redistribute locally might be cool.
[12:19] <Kamion> Burgwork: we generally don't have time.
[12:19] <infinity> But we can't really build and mirror dozens of extra ISOs ourselves.
[12:19] <Kamion> we need to keep response latency very low during release times.
[12:20] <ogra> the right way is to have a second CD with all langpacks imho we could even provide regular translation update CDs
[12:20] <ogra> not additional localized install CDs
[12:21] <Znarl> Kamion : magellanic was in the middle of a pulse, it's finished and recovering now.
[12:22] <infinity> ogra: Well, if you're a loco team distributing desktop CDs to a bunch of locals who aren't all that nerdy, having a localised CD would be nice.
[12:23] <infinity> ogra: But, like I said, I think that's something we should perhaps provide an interface for them to generate as an unsupported image, not something we should ship.
[12:23] <ogra> infinity, sure but thats up to the loco imho
[12:23] <ogra> yeah
[12:23] <Kamion> ogra: my concern about that is different: it's that once we start doing that, we'll almost certainly get lazy and not fit any langpacks at all onto the main CD, which means that we'll effectively have to ship the langpack CD in shipit, and that will negate all the cost benefits to Canonical gained by moving to the live CD installer
[12:24] <Kamion> ok, new xubuntu images up that should work around the ltsp installation problem
[12:24] <ogra> Kamion, indeed that shouldnt happen ... i'd also see the langpack CD as a job of the rosetta team, not of the distro team specifically
[12:25] <ogra> (oor as a joint work of both of them)
[12:25] <infinity> Znarl: FSVO of "recovering"... I assume it's still in the process? :)
[12:26] <infinity> Znarl: Cause I'm still getting a lot of "there ain't no file where you're looking, idiot" errors from rsync.
[12:26] <mvo> ogra: we even have a spec for langpack cds
[12:26] <Kamion> ogra: while that's a nice dream, it seems highly unlikely to happen; the Rosetta team would rightly claim that they just do the infrastructure, and it's our job to get it out to users (the way we currently do with language packs)
[12:26] <Kamion> I don't think that we get to assign work to the Rosetta team that's not really in their remit
[12:27] <ogra> mvo, yes, i'm hoping for it to happen some day for edubuntu ...
[12:28] <ogra> Kamion, well, i'm a dreamer, i know ... but sometimes things i dream actually happen :)
[12:28] <Znarl> infinity : Do you have an example?
[12:28] <infinity> rsync: link_stat "/ubuntu-server/daily/current/dapper-server-amd64.iso" (in cdimage) failed: No such file or directory (2)
[12:28] <infinity> rsync: link_stat "/ubuntu-server/daily/current/dapper-server-i386.iso" (in cdimage) failed: No such file or directory (2)
[12:28] <infinity> Etc.
[12:28] <infinity> rsync: link_stat "/daily/current/dapper-alternate-i386.iso" (in cdimage) failed: No such file or directory (2)
[12:28] <infinity> The latter being much older, and I'd expect it to be synced by now...
[12:28] <Kamion> ogra: I'd like to make the Launchpad team write ubiquity for me too, but it seems unlikely ;-)
[12:29] <ogra> heh
[12:29] <ogra> admit, you didnt try it ;)
[12:30] <Keybuk> infinity: what are those aussie choccie biscuits called?
[12:30] <Kamion> I have a queer fondness for continuing to be paid
[12:30] <ogra> lol
[12:30] <Keybuk> like uk penguins, but not called that
[12:30] <StevenK> Keybuk: Montes? Tim Tams?
[12:30] <Kamion> Keybuk: tim tams
[12:30] <ogra> mmm tim tams
[12:31] <Keybuk> tim tams was it!
[12:31] <StevenK> Speaking of, I have some Tim Tams in the fridge.
[12:31] <StevenK> Blast, there was only one left.
[12:34] <mdz> ubiquity/i386/erase install successful
[12:34] <mdz> complete with two OpenOffice.org Spreadsheet menu items
[12:34] <mdz> I wonder how many times that will get duped
[12:37] <mdz> infinity: do you still have oo.o in ccache somewhere?
[12:37] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, but it doesn't cache well.
[12:37] <Keybuk> mdz: I just filed a dozen bugs abou tthat
[12:38] <Riddell> is the cd build server busy or can I make new kubuntu alternative?
[12:38] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks pal
[12:38] <infinity> mdz: A new build will still take 3 or 4 hours, I suspect.
[12:38] <infinity> Riddell: One was already spun for you.
[12:38] <infinity> Riddell: Since the archive hasn't changed since then, you should be good to go. :)
[12:39] <mdz> infinity: I expect the correction to the patch is trivial
[12:39] <ogra> infinity, his seeds have ;) 
[12:39] <Riddell> infinity: 20060524.1 overflowed
[12:39] <Keybuk> why do you have to do a new build of open office?
[12:39] <infinity> Riddell: Ahh. :)
[12:39] <Keybuk> can't you just hack the debs open, fix the .desktop file, and whistle innocently
[12:39] <Keybuk> ? :P
[12:39] <ogra> Keybuk, to fix the .desktop file
[12:39] <ogra> heh
[12:40] <infinity> Keybuk: I've done that before in the Debian archive for text-only changes...
[12:40] <Keybuk> it shhhould be possible
[12:40] <mdz> look at the moral decay which follows when you forego the requirement that things actually build from source
[12:40] <infinity> It's simple.
[12:40] <mdz> it's abhorrent
[12:40] <ogra> mdz, i have an ooo impress on edubuntu amd64 live 
[12:41] <mdz> ogra: that's because its openoffice is old
[12:41] <infinity> I had a script to do "arch-indep only changes", complete with adding the new changelog from the new source package, fixing control, and repacking.
[12:41] <Keybuk> mdz: you really want to restart the entire process all over again, including building openoffice, under strace, just to fix an icon? :)
[12:41] <mdz> Keybuk: not for RC, but for final, yes
[12:41] <ogra> mdz, amd64 wasnt updated ? 
[12:41] <infinity> It doesn't need to build under strace, it needs to build on terranova. :)
[12:41] <mdz> ogra: no
[12:41] <ogra> ohoel, k 
[12:42] <ogra> grmpf
[12:42] <_ohoel> :-)
[12:42] <ogra> thanks :)
[12:42] <Keybuk> hmm, I appear to need to hold down the Fn key to type my password
[12:42] <Keybuk> oops
[12:43] <ogra> just type it here, than you can copy and paste :P
[12:43] <mdz> I've successfully tested i386 desktop and alternate erase installs
[12:43] <Keybuk> ograismysweetheart
[12:43] <mdz> unfortunately the tube is calling me
[12:43] <Keybuk> you tube to the K&K?
[12:43] <infinity> I think I need to do the nap thing.
[12:44] <mdz> Keybuk: yes
[12:44] <mvo> bye mdz
[12:44] <infinity> I'll be back to testing in the "morning", whatever that is.
[12:44] <infinity> mdz: Happy tubery.
[12:44] <BenC> are there any other test targets that need to be done that I can take a crack at?
[12:44] <ogra> gah, my dvdrom freaks your when ubiquity starts gparted
[12:44] <Keybuk> ah, I keep forgetting you're American; and don't do the "walking" thing :)
[12:44] <mdz> infinity: if I mail tollef about the oo.o thing, does he have access to do the build somewhere it'll work?
[12:44] <BenC> I have an array of equipment that is being underutilized at the moment :)
[12:45] <infinity> mdz: No, but if you pass me the diff (or tell me what needs to be changed), I can kick it off right now.
[12:45] <mdz> Keybuk: I walk quite a lot at home actually...I just don't know my way around here
[12:45] <mdz> i have a terrible sense of direction
[12:45] <Keybuk> I'm hoping the weather will be nice, I want to start skating again; London is usually a good opportunity
[12:45] <thom> mdz: if you find yourself swimming you've gone the wrong way
[12:46] <Kamion> Riddell: go for it
[12:46] <ogra> *giggle*
[12:46] <Keybuk> mdz: K&K is basically "walk to the tube and keep going"
[12:47] <Kamion> mdz: A-Z ++
[12:47] <Riddell> Kamion: netinstall CD worked perfectly for kubuntu by the way
[12:47] <thom> Kamion: when i use the A-Z i can't get a satellite view
[12:48] <ogra> whats a-z ? mobile navi ? 
[12:48] <Kamion> Riddell: with that preseed/url? great
[12:48] <Kamion> ogra: London pocket map
[12:48] <ogra> ah
[12:48] <mdz> Kamion: a-z?
[12:48] <Kamion> er, street plan really
[12:48] <Kamion> thickish book
[12:48] <ogra> analogus navigation system :)
[12:49] <mdz> google maps has good map data for here but doesn't do well with addresses
[12:49] <Kamion> but pocket-size as far as length and width go
[12:49] <Keybuk> Google Maps famously can't cope with UK addresses
[12:49] <ogra> well, london doesnt do well with adresses :)
[12:49] <mdz> infinity: I'd have to download a 73M diff
[12:49] <ogra> (at least if you are german)
[12:50] <mdz> ok, ok, I'll try
[12:50] <infinity> Err, fair point.  Which .desktop needs to be renamed, and to what?
[12:51] <mdz> infinity: the one which runs ooo-impress needs its name changed from "OpenOffice.org Spreadsheet" to "OpenOffice.org Presentation"
[12:51] <mdz> as the changelog says
[12:51] <infinity> mdz: Alright.  I'll just do that, then.
[12:51] <Keybuk> what is it with some people?  "NM CVS HEAD doesn't build with -Werror" ... "uh, we don't ship either NM CVS HEAD or are foolish enough to compile it with -Werror" and set to rejected
[12:51] <Keybuk> guy sets it back to confirmed
[12:51] <Keybuk> grr
[12:52] <infinity> mdz: Are uploads landing in an unchecked queue or something that I can easily manipulate with the queue tool?
[12:52] <ogra> meh the pertition selection in ubiquity is evil ...
[12:52] <mdz> infinity: they're landing in the usual spot; the queue processor is just disabled
[12:52] <mdz> I don't know the incantation though
[12:52] <infinity> mdz: Ahh, kay.  I can likely work out how to process a single one without issues.
[12:53] <Kamion> ls -l /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/incoming/*
[12:53] <Kamion> ogra: thanks for your constructive feedback :-P
[12:53] <ogra> Kamion, its complaining that a partition is assigned to more than one mountpoint which isnt true 
[12:53] <Keybuk> infinity: wave process-upload.py over it
[12:53] <Kamion> ogra: do you have multiple blank rows in the mountpoints table?
[12:53] <ogra> i have hda4 / ands hda2 swap
[12:53] <ogra> yes
[12:53] <Kamion> ogra: known bug, on the list
[12:53] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, but very carefully. :)
[12:53] <ogra> ok
[12:54] <ogra> any way around it ? i dont want to touch the other partitions
[12:54] <Kamion> bug 46402
[12:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46402 in ubiquity "espresso mistakenly complains about partitions having multiple mount points" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46402
[12:54] <Keybuk> infinity: backup the database and archive before you do <g>
[12:54] <Kamion> er, restart ubiquity and don't cause it to create multiple blank rows this time, I think
[12:54] <Keybuk> make sure you sudo -u lp_upload -i first too
[12:54] <mdz> infinity: I have no idea how the patching works and I have to run
[12:54] <mdz> back in the morning
[12:54] <Keybuk> mdz: enjoy
[12:54] <ogra> hmmk
[12:55] <Kamion> the queue processor runs as lp_queue not lp_upload
[12:55] <Keybuk> does it?
[12:55] <Keybuk> oh
[12:55] <ogra> ouch and the german translation of the cancel dialog is very confusing
[12:55] <Keybuk> ignore me then
[12:55] <infinity> Keybuk: I will. :)
[12:55] <Kamion> ogra: it should be fixable in Rosetta if you do it by the weekend
[12:56] <ogra> Kamion, will do i think, the dialog asks if i want to cancel the install and offers a cancel and a quit button ... indeed i clicked blindly on cancel because of the text :)
[12:56] <Kamion> oh that's not the translation
[12:57] <Kamion> it's that way in English too, there's a bug about that too
[12:57] <ogra> it should ask me to quit :)
[12:57] <ogra> ah good
[12:57] <Kamion> yes, not a huge deal though because the obvious mistake just takes you back into ubiquity
[12:57] <ogra> yep
[12:57] <Kamion> I'll fix it in edgy
[12:58] <ogra> ++ for keeping all the settings :)
[12:58] <ogra> (like users fullname etc)
[12:58] <infinity> debdiff + openoffice source packages = go for breakfast.
[12:59] <Keybuk> Kamion: jdub would approve
[12:59] <Keybuk> always make the least destructive button the easiest to click
[01:00] <infinity> You should just change the dialog to have two identical cancel buttons, and a single string that says "Guess."
[01:00] <ogra> hehe
[01:01] <mdke> | Blue pill | Red pill |
[01:01] <Kamion> the final screen is better - "Continue using the live CD" and "Restart now" - but I forgot about the abort dialog
[01:01] <Keybuk> shouldn't that say "DESKTOP CD" ? :)
[01:02] <ogra> Keybuk, shh
[01:02] <infinity> No, cause "desktop CD" means "Live CD + Desktop Installer"
[01:02] <Keybuk> maybe we should call them Ubiquitous and Ubiquiless
[01:02] <infinity> Though I'd prefer "Continue Live Session" to the current string.
[01:02] <infinity> Since that's really what you're doing.  Carrying on the session, not "using the CD".
[01:03] <Kamion> mm, I sort of prefer having a sentence rather than the jargon "session"
[01:03] <mvo> infinity: i did the ubuntu-server/netboot test with the "normal" netboot images as "server". is this correct? 
[01:03] <infinity> Maybe I want to shut down, pull out the CD, and use it as a frisbee, but that's not what the dialog's asking me. :)
[01:03] <Kamion> though I take your point
[01:03] <infinity> mvo: No idea, TBH.  I've not done a server netinstall.
[01:03] <Kamion> file a bug if you want me to remember; nothing from release fortnight is going to stay in my head :)
[01:04] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I'll see if I care after I've mangled OOo.
[01:04] <mvo> infinity: oh, right. I should go to bed. I thought I had read your name in the i386 column, but it was the cd column :)
[01:05] <infinity> mvo: Out of curiosity, what kernel did you end up with after that?
[01:06] <ajmitch> morning
[01:07] <mvo> infinity: its already overwritten with the next install
[01:08] <infinity> mvo: Oh. :)
[01:11] <mvo> why was it selected?
[01:11] <infinity> It's not...
[01:11] <infinity> Unless you installed on XFS...
[01:11] <mvo> I did
[01:12] <infinity> Evidently, grub doesn't *do* XFS.  Or, so I've been told.
[01:12] <thom> yeah, you can't have grub on your root partition
[01:12] <ogra> hmm, still not ?
[01:12] <Kamion> there's a rumour that grub 0.97 has that fixed, but I haven't tested and now isn't really the time for experimentation
[01:13] <Kamion> I'll try it out early edgy and see if it works on the machine I have where it used to reliably fail
[01:13] <Kamion> infinity: that ubiquity infinite loop is a one-liner ...
[01:13] <Kamion> -                    pass
[01:13] <Kamion> +                    self.succeeded = True
[01:13] <Kamion> on line 299
[01:13] <Kamion> of ubiquity/components/partman.py
[01:13] <infinity> Kamion: Does it go somewhere useful after that? :)
[01:14] <infinity> (ie: take over the whole disk for me)
[01:14] <Kamion> yeah
[01:14] <infinity> Right.  Care to upload that, then, since we seem to be holding off for me to do OOo AGAIN?
[01:14] <infinity> (Want me to test it first?)
[01:14] <mvo> do we have a testplan that goes beyond "ServerTesting" in the wiki?
[01:15] <infinity> mvo: The testplan for -server is mostly "check if you got the right kernel installed, see if the thing reboots alright, and if you're doing a LAMP install, did it install apache2, php5, mysql5?"
[01:16] <Kamion> infinity: if you could test it, that wouldn't hurt ...
[01:16] <infinity> It's pretty light, since -server doesn't really DO much of anything, except dump you in a base system.
[01:16] <Kamion> infinity: oh, we're holding off for OOo? hadn't realised that
[01:16] <mvo> infinity: ok, that was my plan too :)
[01:16] <infinity> Kamion: mdz's asking me to fix it and upload before he took off implied that.
[01:16] <infinity> (And I'm uploading now)
[01:16] <Kamion> infinity: if I have a few minutes, I'd like to prod at the other big-deal items
[01:17] <infinity> Kamion: Rebooting Zofia's machine now to test that one-liner.
[01:17] <infinity> Kamion: You have hours, if we're waiting on another OOo build.
[01:17] <infinity> Kamion: You should also get some sleep sometime, though, if we're going to be testing tomorrow dring daylight.
[01:17] <infinity> s/dring/during/
[01:18] <Kamion> yeah, will do, don't worry
[01:18] <infinity> Here's hoping no one asks you to write another new installer next cycle.
[01:19] <infinity> I don't envy your "everything hinges on Kamion's last-minute bugfixes" position right now. :/
[01:19] <ogra> Kamion, whats about the PQSERVICE filesystem bug ? i still have it mounted after an ubiquity install on the new system 
[01:19] <Kamion> ogra: PQSERVICE what now?
[01:20] <ogra> thats the windows recovery partition on my haddisk
[01:20] <Kamion> um no idea
[01:20] <ogra> its mounted by default in the newly installed system
[01:20] <infinity> Shouldn't that partition be marked hidden?
[01:20] <ogra> we talked about it a while ago ...
[01:20] <ogra> yes
[01:20] <infinity> ogra: What's the partition type?
[01:21] <mvo> Riddell: here?
[01:21] <ogra> infinity, cfdisk doesnt have it
[01:21] <infinity> ogra: fdisk -l
[01:21] <ogra> neither
[01:21] <infinity> Err, it doesn't show up at all?
[01:22] <ogra> nope
[01:22] <ogra> only on my desktop
[01:22] <infinity> Then that's the problem.  Your manufacturer is an idiot.
[01:22] <ogra> well i know that, its acer
[01:22] <infinity> It should be a normal partition with a hidden partition type.
[01:22] <ogra> hmm, doubleclicking it gets me to /
[01:22] <mjg59> Yes, partition types with the hidden bit set (which is bit 8, I /think/) probably shouldn't be mounted
[01:22] <infinity> They're doing something rather evil to make it not show up at all.
[01:22] <ogra> yup
[01:23] <infinity> mjg59: Yeah, but partitions with that bit set would show up in fdisk -l
[01:23] <ogra> but it only shows up in live installs, not with the install cd
[01:23] <mjg59> infinity: Sure
[01:23] <infinity> mjg59: His is hidden in some thpethial way.
[01:23] <Keybuk> ok, I've just managed to completely bodge up this test install
[01:23] <Keybuk> TIME FOR BED
[01:23] <infinity> mjg59: Since his doesn't actually show up at all.
[01:23] <mjg59> infinity: Though last time I checked, "hidden" partitions still got mounted
[01:23] <mjg59> Uh. If it's not in fdisk, it won't be in /proc/partitions
[01:23] <mjg59> Or if it is, dmesg should give a pretty good clue how it's got there
[01:23] <infinity> mjg59: Yeah, that would qualify as a bug, then.
[01:23] <mjg59> infinity: Yes, now you mention it, I agree
[01:24] <mjg59> It just hadn't really occured to me before
[01:24] <mjg59> That ought to be a pretty simple check...
[01:24] <ogra> i even had these little popups telling me that pqservice was 99% full, but that was fixed at some point during development and disappeared
[01:24] <Riddell> mvo: hih
[01:25] <mvo> Riddell: hello! where can I find netinst image for kubuntu?
[01:25] <Riddell> mvo: same as ubuntu image but different preseed see bottom of KubuntuFiles
[01:26] <mvo> Riddell: aha, thanks
[01:28] <infinity> Kamion: Confirmed, your fix lets me see parts of ubiquity I've never seen before. :)
[01:28] <ogra> discovery #
[01:35] <infinity> Kamion: Alright, I just practiced my leet manual queue processing skills on OOo.  If and when you have a ubiquity upload, let me know.
[01:35] <ogra> hmm, why isnt the cursor theme set by the X server anymore ? 
[01:36] <Kamion> la la la I hate gparted
[01:43] <infinity> mvo: I still didn't get my sexy Tbird icon in app-install-data. :(
[01:43] <infinity> mvo: I assume you have a roll-up of changed data pending for post-rc?
[01:46] <mvo> infinity: hm, I was sure I added it. but for post-rc i have some stuff pending, I can include it then
[01:51] <_ion> Or maybe both computations just happen to take an infinity (no pun intended).
[01:53] <ogra> this capital LTS is so omnipresent ...
[01:55] <Burgwork> ogra, not a big fan of the LTS, myself
[01:57] <ogra> Burgwork, well you dont build a distro where people will expect "Edubuntu 6.06 LTSP" ;)
[01:59] <neuralis> mvo: apparently apt 0.6.44 includes incremental updates. there's an accepted SoC project that you were going to mentor to implement the same thing. i was going to ask the student to take a look at the apt implementation and see how much it overlaps with his proposal; is this alright with you?
[02:00] <infinity> neuralis: I'd suspect mvo knows about apt's new features, since he uploaded them. :)
[02:00] <mvo> neuralis: the implementation in 0.6.44 only works for indexfiles (Packages/Source.gz)
[02:00] <mvo> neuralis: oh, and what infinity said :)
[02:01] <infinity> mvo: Have you spoken with the soyuz people about getting a mirror-side implementation for that, BTW, or are we just going to skip on that feature for Ubuntu?
[02:01] <neuralis> infinity: d'oh, that occurred to me half a second after i hit enter :)
[02:02] <mvo> infinity: skipping seems to be the best, it is optimized for the debian case with only a single update to the Packages file per day
[02:02] <mvo> it works by keeping ed-style diffs around
[02:02] <infinity> mvo: Yeah, I know how it works.  I figured it might actually be better for us, if done right.
[02:02] <mvo> for ubuntu (and debian) I would like to explore a zsync based idea
[02:03] <mvo> infinity: oh, interessting. can you elaborate?
[02:03] <infinity> mvo: Especially for the compulsive updaters who are downloading more in Packages.bz2 every hour than they are in actualy package data.
[02:03] <infinity> mvo: Because of our short cycles, the "Packages files are huge, ARGH" problem is magnified, IMO.
[02:04] <mvo> how often do we update the Packages file currenlty? 4 times/day? more?
[02:04] <infinity> Well, if someone uploads something at least once and hour, we update is 24 times.
[02:04] <infinity> s/is/it/
[02:05] <infinity> And if soyuz gets the speed bumps required to bump us back to 30 minute cycles, we get 48 updates a day.
[02:05] <infinity> (Again, assuming people upload during each cron.daily)
[02:05] <infinity> On busy days, I'd say we approach that, though.
[02:05] <mvo> that would mean 48 diffs per day, rather a lot of files. I wonder how well it would work
[02:06] <infinity> Wouldn't have to mean that.
[02:06] <infinity> The implementation could be bent a bit.
[02:06] <mvo> Riddell: do you have a special testplan for kubuntu?
[02:07] <infinity> You could have the "daily diff", which just keeps growing throughout the day, until it's a full-day diff.
[02:07] <mvo> now that is a interessting idea!
[02:08] <Kamion> infinity: ok, I've got a few ubiquity changes ready and tested now. Would you mind eyeballing the diff for me?
[02:08] <infinity> Kamion: Have at 'er.
[02:09] <Kamion> infinity: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-1.0.7.diff
[02:10] <mvo> infinity: I put that as a spec for paris (and will see what my student comes up with)
[02:10] <infinity> My yoghourt is mocking me.
[02:10] <infinity> Under the lid, it says "you are not a winner".
[02:10] <thom> infinity: it's only telling you what we've been saying all along :-)
[02:10] <Riddell> mvo: yes, bottom of Testing/Short
[02:11] <HrdwrBoB> so what it's really saying is that you are #1 loser
[02:11] <Kamion> Riddell: wouldn't mind if you eyeballed the diff above either, since it has kde-ui changes (precisely parallelling gtkui changes)
[02:11] <mvo> Riddell: *cough* now I could have spotted this :P
[02:12] <ogra> mvo, if it werent 2am :P
[02:13] <infinity> +            if check is None or check == '' or check == ' ':
[02:13] <infinity> Thankyou Python, for not providing an easier way to state that.
[02:13] <Kamion> I think it's probably only ever ' ' or something sensible, but I was being hyper-careful
[02:14] <Kamion> Python does actually, I could say "if check in (None, '', ' ')"
[02:14] <Kamion> I'll change that and re-test
[02:15] <infinity> I love how I keep seeing double between kde-ui and gtk-ui.... There must be some clever way to, oh what are the kids calling it these days, "abstract" that... :)
[02:15] <infinity> Kamion: Anyhow, the diff, from what I understand of the context and the changelogs, appears to be rational.
[02:16] <Kamion> yup, works fine
[02:16] <Kamion> yes, the level of frontend duplication is very annoying
[02:17] <Riddell> Kamion: looks sensible
[02:17] <Kamion> but edgy :)
[02:17] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks
[02:17] <bddebian> Heya folks
[02:18] <Kamion> Riddell: I know qtparted never says "1 Cancel" at the moment, but it was easier to keep the code in sync
[02:19] <infinity> Kamion: If you want to upload that, I'll manually process the upload, then I can go have a nap while the buildds crunch on OOo...
[02:19] <infinity> Kamion: (And so should you)
[02:19] <Kamion> this was certainly the last thing I was planning on doing before bed
[02:19] <bddebian> heh
[02:22] <ogra> hrm
[02:23] <ogra> Kamion, the workstation selection in the install CD suddenly installs "server"
[02:23] <ogra> (edubuntu that is)
[02:23] <infinity> Kamion: AWTY?
[02:23] <ogra> dpkg -l|wc -l
[02:24] <ogra> 706
[02:24] <ogra> :(
[02:24] <Kamion> infinity: uploaded
[02:24] <Kamion> ogra: syslog etc.
[02:24] <infinity> ogra: We all got together and decided to surprise you with this space-saving technique.
[02:24] <ogra> yep, looking into it now ...
[02:25] <infinity> Kamion: Danke.  Processing.
[02:27] <infinity> Nap time for me.  See you all in the morning for more testing.
[02:28] <bddebian> Gnight infinity
[02:28] <Kamion> And I think I'll go to sleep too. Back in ~7.5 hours; please SMS me (or get somebody who knows my number to do so) if anything release-critical comes up
[02:29] <bddebian> Gnight also Kamion
[02:30] <Kamion> (it's *unlikely* I'll wake up, but you never know ...)
[02:30] <ogra> Kamion, can you bookmark that for tomorrow http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/syslog 
[02:33] <Kamion> ogra: that syslog shows it installing the desktop.
[02:34] <Kamion> search for "'pkgsel" (leading apostrophe)
[02:34] <ogra> Kamion, yes, but no trace for gdm and the like 
[02:34] <ogra> go to bed i'll dig ...
[02:35] <Kamion> apt says it's going to install gdm, and then apparently doesn't
[02:35] <ogra> yep
[02:35] <ogra> neither edubuntu-desktop
[02:35] <Kamion> but yeah, going
[02:35] <ogra> but there is no error at all
[02:35] <xhaker> anyone think nautilus sound preview should be gstreamer powered? or atleast aplay?
[02:36] <xhaker> i'm trying to find the code responsible for this on nautilus cvs
[02:41] <jsgotangco> good morning
[02:41] <ogra> jsgotangco, hey
[02:41] <jsgotangco> ogra: another marathon night (or day)?
[02:42] <ogra> yup
[02:51] <ogra> (night) 2:42 am here
[02:51] <Riddell> 50 minutes ahead of britain?
[02:52] <ogra> err
[02:52] <ogra> :52
[02:52] <ogra> i'm half way sleeping already
[02:53] <Riddell> me too, finishing this last install and I'm done for the day
[02:54] <ogra> did you manage a full test cycle ? 
[02:54] <ogra> why the heck does x-window-system install xolgo and xclock ? 
[02:55] <bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
[02:55] <mvo> ogra: wasn't this always be the case? iirc x-window-system-core was the minimal one
[02:55] <bddebian> Hmm, did they shutdown uploads or no?
[02:55] <Riddell> ogra: all 6 CDs plus netinstall.  but I'm far from completing the whole testing grid
[02:56] <ogra> mvo, i meant -core, sorry ... seems i have these packages in my ltsp clients now :)
[02:56] <mvo> -core contains xlogo? someone should talk to the X maintainer then ;)
[02:56] <ogra> which one ? there are so many currently :P
[02:57] <ogra> lol
[02:57] <ogra> x-window-system-core depends on xbase-clients
[02:58] <ogra> and xbase-clients depends on 50 single-binary packages or so 
[02:58] <ogra> ..xload, xlogo, xlsatoms, xlsclients, xlsfonts, xmag, xman, xmessage, xmore, xrgb, xrefresh, xsetroot ...
[02:58] <mvo> ogra: haha, right. lets just pick one at random
[02:58] <ogra> why are they all in single packages ???
[02:58] <ogra> o_O
[03:00] <mvo> dude ... "modular" :P
[03:00] <mvo> haven't you noticed the xlogo-doc package? with the manpage?
[03:00] <ogra> hmm, someone should tell daniels that scattered must not mean modular :)
[03:01] <ogra> *giggle*
[03:01] <bddebian> heh
[03:01] <ogra> mvo, does that carry the docs for the xlogo-dev package as well ? 
[03:02] <mvo> heh :) xlogo-dev-doc? but I think it is getting silly now :P
[03:02] <ogra> yeah, as silly as this packaging
[03:02] <bioeng> Hi everyone
[03:03] <bioeng> I just wanted to hang out here
[03:03] <bioeng> I'm going back to school
[03:03] <bioeng> I'm getting a degree in EE
[03:03] <bioeng> so I wanted to be around some software people
[03:03] <Riddell> bioeng: the place to start helping tonight is https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Testing/Current
[03:05] <bioeng> Before I do this, I have one question
[03:05] <bioeng> Is it possible to dual boot Ubuntu and Windows XP?
[03:06] <jsgotangco> Yes
[03:06] <ogra> thats a question that better suits to #ubuntu 
[03:06] <bioeng> Can you get a lot of embedded systems experience with Ubuntu?
[03:06] <jsgotangco> Riddell: do you need a hand on amd64 test?
[03:07] <ogra> bioeng, please ask non development related question in #ubuntu, this is the coordination channel for development here
[03:08] <bddebian> Do we officially support Sparc?
[03:08] <ogra> bddebian, yes
[03:08] <bioeng> I will ask there
[03:08] <ogra> but only -server
[03:08] <jsgotangco> wow
[03:09] <bddebian> ogra: Ah
[03:09] <jsgotangco> ogra: that is news
[03:09] <ogra> there wont be a desktop CD 
[03:09] <ogra> (no official one)
[03:09] <Riddell> jsgotangco: yes please, go for one of the missing cells in the kubuntu table here if you can https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Testing/Current
[03:09] <Riddell> but all results are good to know
[03:09] <jsgotangco> Riddell: cheers
[03:10] <Riddell> bddebian: I don't think it has been announced yet
[03:10] <ogra> nope
[03:10] <ogra> its a public secret :)
[03:11] <ogra> hmm, intresting the default install semms to finish fine 
[03:11] <bddebian> ogra: :-)
[03:13] <bioeng> One question:  what level of programming skill is required to develop for this OS?
[03:13] <bddebian> bioeng: Believe me, not a great deal :-)
[03:15] <ajmitch> ogra: interesting to hear, actually :)
[03:15] <bioeng> Just basic programming?
[03:16] <infinity> bioeng: Everything from basic shell scripting to deep kernel hacking.  And none of this belongs in this channel.  If you're interested in helping out, please check out #ubuntu-motu
[03:16] <ogra> ajmitch, yes, since the workstation install failed (without errors but only half of the desktop installed)
[03:16] <bddebian> bioeng: Check out the MOTUs
[03:16] <ogra> infinity !!
[03:16] <ogra> infinity SLEEP !!
[03:16] <bioeng> OK
[03:16] <infinity> ogra: I'm just a figment of your imagination.
[03:16] <ogra> haha
[03:16] <thom> infinity: you're asleep, fool
[03:16] <bddebian> heh
[03:16] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[03:18] <ogra> meh, why doe this work and the other doesnt :'(
[03:20] <ogra> woah kde-i18n-de is 17MB now ? 
[03:20] <ogra> that was 12 or so in breezy
[03:33] <wftl> Hello everyone. Is there actually any difference between the DVD Dapper vs the CD (other than media). They appear to be the same and my publisher is asking which we should include with the book.
[03:33] <jsgotangco> grab the liveCD that would be much better IMO
[03:34] <ogra> dvd contains the desktop and the alternate iso as well as all of supported
[03:35] <wftl> ogra: So a user accepting a default boot won't see any difference.
[03:35] <ogra> but jsgotangco is right, i'd also go for the desktop (live) CD for publishing
[03:36] <wftl> jsgotangco: thanks for that tip
[03:36] <ogra> since thats your default install media now that we have the ubiquity installer
[03:36] <ogra> where do you publish ?
[03:37] <wftl> ogra: Addison Wesley is my publisher. The new book is called "Moving to Ubuntu", due out late July.
[03:37] <ogra> in a country with generally bad internet access (Africa, India) the DVD might be a better choice
[03:37] <wftl> ogra: Does the DVD have additional sources though?
[03:37] <jsgotangco> that is neat, ubiquity is actually perfect for "moving" new users
[03:37] <wftl> Nothing visible from the menu.
[03:38] <ogra> it has *all* packages in the supported set ... 
[03:38] <wftl> ogra: not in the menu though.
[03:38] <wftl> ie: Applications
[03:38] <ogra> you dont install single packages from the menu ;)
[03:38] <ogra> right, sorry to all africans in here :)
[03:38] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:39] <wftl> ogra: Granted, but you can't run the additional packages from the live menu. 
[03:39] <wftl> You need to install it first.
[03:39] <ogra> yeah
[03:40] <ogra> the advantage of the DVD is that you dont need internet to install a lot of packages ... 
[03:40] <ogra> the disadvantage is that they might be outdated (missing security updates etc)
[03:40] <ogra> for a book like that i'd got with the desktop CD
[03:40] <wftl> Okay, so the package repositories are on the DVD then. I just can't see them unless I install and fire up Synaptic, correct?
[03:41] <ogra> for the "nairobi computer magazine" i'd go with the DVD
[03:41] <ogra> wftl, yep
[03:41] <Riddell> the other disadvantage of the DVD is that you need a DVD reader to use it
[03:41] <ogra> yep
[03:41] <wftl> Riddell: Good point, and not everyone will have a DVD. 
[03:41] <ogra> which in turn might make it not a good coice for named magazine 
[03:42] <wftl> Okay then, CD it is.
[03:43] <wftl> Thanks, ogra, Riddell, jsgotangco. I appreciate it.
[03:43] <jsgotangco> cheers
[03:43] <jsgotangco> good luck on the book project too
[03:44] <ogra> yeah
[03:44] <wftl> Thanks. Lots of excitement around it already. Should be fun.
[03:44] <Riddell> wftl: make sure you have a good kubuntu chapter in your book
[03:45] <ogra> and a good edubuntu one !
[03:45] <bddebian> Heh @ Riddell & ogra
[03:45] <wftl> Riddell: already done. There's a chapter on [ahem]  turning Ubuntu into Kubuntu (so to speak).
[03:45] <ogra> geez, now the WS install works 
[03:45] <Riddell> wftl: excellent :)
[03:45] <wftl> No Edubuntu chapter though, sorry.
[03:45] <ogra> must have been cosmic rays or something
[03:46] <wftl> Riddell: Had to. I normally run Kubuntu so . . .
[03:46] <wftl> ;-)
[03:46] <ogra> wftl, bah, and we even ship the most revolutionary LTSP impelmentation currently available 
[03:46] <wftl> ogra: LTSP? Where?
[03:46] <ogra> wftl, edubuntu
[03:47] <bddebian> ogra: Is there an edubuntu team on LP?
[03:47] <wftl> ogra: Coolness!
[03:47] <ogra> installs a ltsp classromm server out of the box
[03:47] <wftl> ogra: That's wild! I need to check it out.
[03:47] <ogra> and has a new ssh based ltsp implementation
[03:48] <ogra> bddebian, sure, arent you a member ? you could even join edubuntu-members and get an edubuntu.org mailaddress ;)
[03:48] <bddebian> Heh
[03:48] <ogra> but there are also edubuntu-bugs, edubuntu-testers and many more
[03:48] <bddebian> I was just going to check out your bug list :-)
[03:48] <ogra> its trivially small :)
[03:49] <ogra> (compared to kubuntus for example ;) )
[03:49] <bddebian> What team name are they subscribed/assigned to?
[03:49] <ogra> edubuntu-bugs
[03:49] <Riddell> ogra: do those e-mail addresses work?
[03:49] <ogra> Riddell, yep
[03:49] <bddebian> Yeah I've worked on kubuntu bugs.  It's a hefty list :-)
[03:49] <ogra> dont yours ? 
[03:49] <Riddell> dunno, never trie
[03:49] <jsgotangco> wftl: you can actually swith ubuntu/kubuntu to edubuntu desktop even
[03:49] <Riddell> is it launchpad-id@edubuntu.org?
[03:50] <ogra> jsgotangco, but that wont bring you ltsp out of the box though :)
[03:50] <bddebian> Riddell: Well you never did tell me if I was doing you any good :-)
[03:50] <jsgotangco> true
[03:50] <jsgotangco> ogra: you're saying my workstation tests are worthless heh
[03:50] <ogra> jsgotangco, no, my failed one was
[03:50] <Riddell> bddebian: I still havn't read bugmail from that day you asked
[03:51] <Riddell> I'll probaly let you know by the weekend :)
[03:51] <ogra> jsgotangco, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/syslog
[03:51] <ogra> jsgotangco, search for gdm in there
[03:51] <ogra> or edubuntu-desktop 
[03:51] <Riddell> ooh, jr@kubuntu.org works
[03:51] <ogra> you wont find it more than once
[03:51] <bddebian> Riddell: Heh
[03:51] <Riddell> wonder how long before that get spam
[03:51] <bddebian> ogra: Yeah, that's a pretty small list :-)
[03:51] <ogra> yup
[03:52] <ogra> since we switched to source only packages the list is very small 
[03:52] <ogra> kdeedu is a good bunch of binary packages :)
[03:53] <jsgotangco> May 25 00:03:05 in-target:   dvd+rw-tools ed editres edubuntu-artwork edubuntu-desktop ekiga eog
[03:53] <ogra> jsgotangco, yep
[03:53] <bddebian> Gnight Riddell
[03:53] <ogra> but the unpackaing configuring and installing lines are missing
[03:53] <ogra> and there is no error at all .. it finished fine, and rebooted to console
[03:54] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[03:54] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:54] <ogra> no gdm and only half of the desktop installed
[03:54] <jsgotangco> i noticed that near th end
[03:54] <ogra> but for now i blame my broken DVD reader 
[03:54] <ogra> it sometimes has bad days
[03:55] <ogra> but what should you expect from a dvd reader thats not even able to play an audio CD
[03:56] <jsgotangco> rotfl
[03:57] <jsgotangco> ogra: hmmm did you consider breezy->dapper upgrade for edu in the test?
[03:57] <ogra> nope
[03:57] <ogra> not yet
[03:58] <ogra> i'll pull a breezy i386 iso on the weekend and test that out
[03:58] <ogra> i also have to write ltsp upgrade instructions to update the clients 
[04:01] <ogra> jsgotangco, you didnt note down your successfull installs on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu 
[04:01] <jsgotangco> pfftt sorry
[04:03] <ogra> YAY
[04:04] <ogra> WS install amd64 is good ... finally
[04:07] <ogra> jsgotangco, wow, that was fast :) thanks 
[04:10] <jsgotangco> testing expert now
[04:32] <SuperQ> hey, is 2.6.16-23 going to make it into the RC installer CD?
[04:33] <jsgotangco> ogra: amd64 autoresize, workstation, expert check
[04:33] <ogra> yay
[04:34] <ogra> did you try the ltsp builder in expert ? 
[04:34] <ogra> cbx33 had some probs
[04:34] <jsgotangco> heh doing it now
[04:35] <ogra> SuperQ, you mean if we upgrade from 2.6.15-23 to a 2.6.16 kernel within the next hours (one week after the kernel freeze ?)
[04:35] <jsgotangco> i need a network connection to do that right?
[04:35] <ogra> nope
[04:35] <jsgotangco> okay
[04:36] <ogra> its like in the default install
[04:36] <ogra> but  i dont really expect it to work anyway
[04:36] <jsgotangco> doesn't hurt for another failure to happen to be sure
[04:37] <SuperQ> ogra: no, I mean will something >= -23 be part of the installer image
[04:37] <SuperQ> ogra: It wasn't in the daily a couple of days ago
[04:37] <ogra> SuperQ, we wont ship 2.6.16
[04:37] <Lathiat> i think the .16 was a typo ?
[04:37] <Lathiat> given -23 is th current 2.6.15 ubuntu revision
[04:37] <ogra> and the kernel freeze was supposed to be 7 days ago
[04:37] <SuperQ> oh.. sorry.. 2.6.15-23
[04:37] <SuperQ> ogra: tyopo
[04:37] <SuperQ> :)
[04:37] <Lathiat> has anyone else heard of -23 breaking intel hd audio?
[04:38] <ogra> so we wont change anything wrt kernel for RC
[04:38] <SuperQ> right
[04:38] <ogra> also the RC candidate is pretty much finished ... 
[04:38] <ogra> only some hours away
[04:38] <SuperQ> I just want to make sure 2.6.15-23 will be the boot kernel for the RC installer
[04:39] <ogra> yep, the current one will be the RC kernel (unless someone find something really evil today)
[04:39] <SuperQ> ok, good
[04:39] <SuperQ> some of the hardware on my gf's T60 is missing from beta2
[04:39] <SuperQ> hardware support
[04:42] <SuperQ> thanks
[05:24] <jsgotangco> ogra: hmm the install didn't do anything at all on setting up LTSP
[05:27] <ogra> yup
[05:28] <ogra> thats what cbx33 reported as well
[05:34] <jsgotangco> ogra: that happened when i didnt have a network
[05:34] <jsgotangco> when i plugged in, its now doing ltsp chroot
[05:34] <jsgotangco> but it seems it only went to 50%
[05:35] <ogra> heh
[05:36] <ogra> its not depending on network
[05:36] <ogra> but it depends on the mounted cd, is that still mounted ? 
[05:37] <ogra> also look at console 3
[05:37] <ogra> it should show any output there
[05:38] <jsgotangco> the chroot failed
[05:39] <ogra> yep
[05:39] <ogra> i'll test myself after some h of sleep
[05:41] <jsgotangco> k
[05:47] <jdub> oh man
[05:47] <jdub> sounder sucks these days :(
[05:51] <ajmitch> too much noise & heat\
[05:54] <jsgotangco> :/
[08:20] <vinboy> hi
[08:20] <vinboy> is the release candidate out yet?
[08:21] <Burgundavia> vinboy, nope, you will see an announcement
[08:21] <vinboy> ok
[08:21] <vinboy> in 6 hours
[08:22] <fabbione> vinboy: when it's ready
[08:55] <sivang> re all
[08:59] <kagou> Good morning
[09:08] <sivang> hey kagou , what's up?
[09:09] <kagou> sivang, coffee time :) and you ?
[09:17] <kagou> sivang, is that you working on hubackup ?
[09:20] <sivang> kagou: it is , I know it needs a lot of more work :)
[09:21] <kagou> sivang, it look promising. do you have cvs or web site ?
[09:23] <sivang> kagou: bzr branch is it http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~sivan/upbackup--main
[09:23] <sivang> kagou: also you can apt-get source it
[09:29] <nomed> sivang, is it a launchpad proj too ?
[09:31] <nomed> i see it is 
[09:31] <sivang> nomed: yes, scanned fro revisions and everything, I'm also going to mirror it at supermirror when I find a minute.
[09:31] <nomed> sivang, would it be possible to add dev bzr branch to the proj page ? 
[09:32] <sivang> nomed: is there already? what's the link you are talking about?
[09:32] <nomed> ohh yep i see
[09:33] <nomed> there was a strange link at the proj frontpage in launchpad
[09:33] <nomed> sivang, are u using notification-daemon too at the end ?
[09:36] <Keybuk> heh @ Dilbert ... "Now, I know how much you hate the phrase 'In lieu of a raise'"
[09:36] <pygi> sivang, I have good news for you
[09:40] <jdub> hrm, is there any way to figure out what PCI version a motherboard supports from within linux?
[09:40] <sivang> pygi: Mario, sorry I was away last day - you know all manhy aarrangment etc
[09:40] <jdub> "only firefox and your mobo vendor's website" is an acceptable answer if that's the case ;)
[09:40] <sivang> pygi: I saw you emailed me and I did not exactly understand about what
[09:41] <pygi> sivang, no problem at all, just tell me once you are back 
[09:41] <pygi> yea, that message carried no common sense :)
[09:41] <sivang> pygi: back for some time now
[09:41] <pygi> sivang, oki, you know that backup thingy....well he wasn't accepted for us (he did, but there was collision with 3 other orgs)
[09:42] <pygi> he'll work with us this summer 
[09:42] <pygi> not for money tho, but he'll still work, so :)
[09:43] <sivang> pygi: ah, do you think he'll manage it? I mean, if he's already going to be busy - probably asking him for one more poject could be not that good for him..distractions etc. but if he's interested in helping, then why not.
[09:43] <pygi> sivang, I haven't asked him to help...he offered help ;)
[09:43] <pygi> sivang, and yes, he seems very talented, and he can probably manage it
[09:44] <Keybuk> grr, somebody is doing it again.  Filing bugs because "things look wrong" and not because they have an actual problem!
[09:45] <sivang> pygi: what's the other project he got accepted to?
[09:45] <pygi> sivang, he got accepted by 4 orgs(record) but resolution went to Gentoo (WYSIWYG (insert the doc format) editor)
[09:46] <sivang> pygi: nice
[09:46] <pygi> sivang, anyway I'll look at what we have currently today or tommorow so we can start hackin' on it
[09:48] <pygi> okay, I gotta run now
[09:48] <sivang> pygi: very cool, I may be away on and off until I get sorted (paper work, other stuff, probably movin again) so feel free to start ahead , analyze the ode, and draw a plan how to work out towards Anat's plan.
[09:48] <sivang> pygi: btw, how is e caled on IRC?
[09:53] <jdub> Keybuk: I WANT A DMA!
[09:53] <jdub> Keybuk: TWO! I WANT TWO!
[09:54] <sivang> hehe
[09:54] <Burgundavia> jdub, no, the bikeshed should be blue!
[09:55] <Keybuk> jdub: hehe
[09:59] <Keybuk> it's sounder, it's inherently off-topic and rambling
[09:59] <Keybuk> if it were u-d, I would have got the AK47 out long ago
[09:59] <Keybuk> actually
[09:59] <Keybuk> there's a link you can put on your EOT :p
[09:59] <Keybuk> http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/magic-story.html
[10:00] <jdub> it's inherently off-topic-ish, but there's no excuse for pointless, argumentative, unproductive drivel on any list
[10:02] <Treenaks> Just make enable DMA randomly (or not) on each boot, that should make everyone happy :P
[10:04] <sladen> jdub: IIRC, PCI-Express, 64-bit and 66Mhz versions are all transparent to the OS.
[10:05] <Treenaks> sladen: 'PCIE is transparent, but with extra magic added', afaik
[10:05] <mdz_> morning
[10:06] <jdub> (i ended up getting a useful answer from intel, via the clug archives)
[10:06] <jdub> (my mobo is pre i810, so doesn't support PCI 2.2)
[10:06] <Keybuk> Treenaks: yeah, one day we'll fix the extra magic
[10:06] <Keybuk> right now the magic is gone
[10:06] <sivang> battery going down, laters all
[10:07] <Keybuk> look in /sys/bus/pci_express/devices, look how many different links there are, then look at how many different link _names_ there are
[10:07] <Treenaks> Keybuk: ooh nice!
[10:08] <Keybuk> it's not really a major bug until we have something that _cares_ about PCI-Express
[10:08] <Treenaks> (like some X drivers?)
[10:08] <Keybuk> the X drivers will access the card through the PCI bridge
[10:09] <Keybuk> usually they start talking PCI, and then switch to PCIe once they realise they can
[10:13] <Kamion> morning
[10:15] <Mithrandir> mdz: (re Calc & Impress both being named spreadsheet): Sorry. :-(
[10:16] <mdz> Mithrandir: sorted now; let's do this thing
[10:17] <infinity> mdz: I'm going to do OOo-amd64 right now, if that's alright.
[10:17] <mdz> infinity: please
[10:17] <infinity> Unless someone with more bandwidth wants to...
[10:17] <infinity> Mithrandir: ?
[10:17] <mdz> that would also be sensible
[10:17] <infinity> Or I can just do it in the DC, and ship the changes home to sign.
[10:18] <Mithrandir> infinity: it's a national holiday for me here today so I'd prefer to not work today.
[10:18] <infinity> Mithrandir: Understood.  I'd prefer not to work today too. :)
[10:19] <Kamion> are the other arches ready for candidate builds?
[10:19] <infinity> i386 should be, since I just published the i386 OOo binaries.
[10:19] <Keybuk> eta for the candidates?
[10:19] <infinity> powerpc JUSt finished the OOo build, so we may as well wait for that to upload and publish.
[10:20] <mdz> I just verified the menu entries on i386 ;-)
[10:20] <Keybuk> if > 1hr, I'll pop out now to get milk and essentials, rather than later; if that's ok?
[10:20] <mdz> Keybuk: >1hr
[10:21] <Keybuk> I was dreaming about usplash last night ... very bizarre
[10:21] <infinity> Oh, publisher's off, BTW, so I can drive it by hand immediately after I get uploads in.
[10:21] <infinity> Keybuk: Sick.
[10:22] <mdz> znarl: I'm seeing rsync connections unexpectedly closed/reset on cdimage
[10:22] <mdz> znarl: rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver] 
[10:22] <omeg> Keybuk: did you get any splendid new ideas for it?
[10:25] <Keybuk> omeg: I couldn't decide whether to add progress bars for running fscks, or just disable the automatic fsck anyway (except for bad unmount)
[10:25] <lifeless> mmmm progress mmmmm
[10:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46521 in ubiquity "Installer crashed - Powerpc system with no yaboot bootstrap partition." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46521
[10:27] <Kamion> the occasional automatic fsck is a good thing to keep, I think; filesystem damage isn't always accompanied by the filesystem being marked dirty
[10:27] <mdz> does anyone else see this rsync problem?
[10:28] <mdz> Kamion: so we're rolling a new candidate for ubiquity 1.0.7?
[10:29] <Kamion> we were rolling a new candidate for OOo anyway, I thought
[10:29] <Kamion> if we're not, then I don't mind if it waits until post-RC
[10:30] <mdz> I expected to have it waiting in the wings for post-RC, but I suppose we do have the option
[10:30] <mdz> we could roll one and start testing, and have the existing candidate as a fallback
[10:30] <Kamion> sorry, I just assumed that we were doing OOo now because we wanted it in the RC
[10:30] <Kamion> infinity was under that impression too
[10:31] <mdz> oh, well if sleep was already lost on it, we should definitely go for it then
[10:31] <Kamion> still, the infloop fix for systems with multiple disks is worthwhile
[10:31] <mdz> indeed
[10:32] <infinity> mdz: It'll take less than an hour to get OOo in for all arches now, so I think it's a win.
[10:32] <mdz> Kamion: and VERY VERY SCARY that we didn't hear about it until now
[10:32] <Kamion> it was probably introduced in ubiquity 0.99.83, the resize handling changes
[10:32] <infinity> mdz: If only to avoid the huge amount of dupes for the broken string. :)
[10:33] <Kamion> which was after Flight CD 7, so I'm not so surprised that I wasn't getting "mass-market" reports of it
[10:34] <mdz> well, unless this rsync problem is fixed, I won't be able to download the new candidate very effectively
[10:35] <mdz> is it only me, or no?
[10:35] <mdz> first connection works, second one blows up
[10:35] <infinity> Oh, all my images are up to date, so I can't really tell...
[10:35] <infinity> They happily download 93 bytes each, though.
[10:35] <mdz> infinity: doesn't matter, mine are too
[10:35] <fabbione> mdz: i can connect fine
[10:35] <mdz> fabbione: how many times in sequence?
[10:36] <mdz> it's always the second connect which fails for me
[10:36] <mdz> receiving file list ...
[10:36] <mdz> 3 files to consider
[10:36] <mdz> sent 111 bytes  received 138 bytes  498.00 bytes/sec
[10:36] <mdz> total size is 2159151104  speedup is 8671289.57
[10:36] <mdz> rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver] 
[10:36] <mdz> (that's daily-live  followed by daily)
[10:36] <fabbione> 21
[10:36] <fabbione> mdz: probably you are hitting the ip limit
[10:36] <mdz> hmmm
[10:36] <fabbione> and one of your session is still hanging there
[10:36] <fabbione> wait a little bit
[10:36] <fabbione> did you break an rsync in the middle?
[10:37] <mdz> sleep fixes it
[10:37] <fabbione> nah sleep is pointless
[10:37] <fabbione> ?
[10:37] <mdz> sleep 1 between the rsyncs got it going again
[10:37] <fabbione> hmm try removing it again
[10:37] <fabbione> probably the hanging connection did timeout?
[10:37] <mdz> working now too
[10:37] <fabbione> also.. to what cdimage are you connecting?
[10:37] <mdz> maybe
[10:37] <mdz> cdimage.ubuntu.com
[10:37] <fabbione> there is more than one
[10:38] <fabbione> Name:   cdimage.ubuntu.com
[10:38] <fabbione> Address: 85.133.25.10
[10:38] <fabbione> Name:   cdimage.ubuntu.com
[10:38] <fabbione> Address: 85.133.25.11
[10:38] <Kamion> (I got into the habit when rsync from cdimage was much more regularly broken, and never changed my scripts when it got more reliable ...)
[10:38] <mdz> Kamion: I don't keep keys on the office server, or forward an agent to it either ;-)
[10:38] <fabbione> Kamion: not everybody has access to these boxes.. you lucky B*****D
[10:38] <Kamion> mdz: heh
[10:39] <Kamion> fabbione: well, quite ...
[10:39] <fabbione> ;)
[10:40] <fabbione> infinity: how is OO.o doing on the != x86 arches?
[10:41] <infinity> fabbione: PowerPC is built, -amd64 is uploaded (as of 2 minutes ago) and the publisher is running.
[10:41] <fabbione> infinity: sparc?
[10:41] <infinity> sparc's still grinding away... But we're not (officially) testing sparc desktop CDs anyway, so...
[10:42] <fabbione> infinity: right.. 
[10:44] <sivang> hmm, nice spash
[10:44] <sivang> splash eve
[10:44] <infinity> sivang: Which one?  The new GNOME splash?
[10:44] <sivang> infinity: yes, quite nice
[10:45] <infinity> "Yes, I think the new GNOME splash is great too, because if I didn't think it was, mdz would kill me."
[10:45] <kagou> lol
[10:45] <fabbione> infinity: ahahahha
[10:45] <sivang> infinity: Well, I happen to really think it's nice :) I liked the transparent upper part 
[10:46] <mdke> yeah, good art all round
[10:46] <infinity> I'm just trying to avoid getting murdered in Paris for accidentally convincing people to bikeshed over yet another piece of artwork.
[10:46] <mdz> just wait, there are more changes to come
[10:46] <infinity> So, yeah.  THE NEW SPLASH IS AWESOME.
[10:47] <mdz> infinity: friends don't let friends endure last-minute artwork changes: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-artwork/+bug/46219
[10:47] <mdke> not the final artwork eh
[10:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46219 in ubuntu-artwork "Folder icons in 'Human' theme are huge" [Major,Fix committed]  
[10:47] <fabbione> Kamion: i assume the new ppc -desktop- has fixed ubiquity, right?
[10:47] <infinity> fabbione: Define "fixed"
[10:48] <infinity> fabbione: It has 1.0.5, but not 1.0.7... I think.
[10:48] <fabbione> infinity: for the link_kernel template thingy
[10:48] <fabbione> ok
[10:48] <infinity> Oh, yeah, that's fixed.
[10:48] <fabbione> i assume it is unreasonable to ask for new images?
[10:48] <infinity> Since it's easier to do them all at once, I'm just gonna wait for amd64 OOo to hit the archive.
[10:49] <fabbione> ok
[10:49] <infinity> (Oh, and PPC OOo is still publishing..)
[10:49] <mdz> sivang: wikipedia
[10:53] <mdz> infinity: oo.o-amd64 is in this publisher run as well?
[10:53] <infinity> mdz: The source.  It'll be one more run to get the binaries in.
[10:54] <sivang> ah, I see.
[10:54] <infinity> mdz: Thankfully, the binaries build in about a minute, so it'll be quick turnaround.
[10:54] <mdz> cool
[10:55] <_ion> Huh, what's up with this? "10 CDs requested in 2006-05-20. 10 CDs approved and sent to the shipping company in 2006-05-24"  Dapper isn't even released yet.
[10:57] <dAndy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_the_bikeshed
[10:57] <infinity> Oh, I had to follow a See Also from Parkinson's law.  Silly me.
[10:57] <dAndy> yep :)
[10:58] <mdz> _ion: presumably they're queueing orders for us
[10:58] <ajmitch> evening
[10:59] <sivang> infinity: I'm bothered by mediawiki's search capabilities. none of the returned search restuls mention the search term itself and where it was found, this can be confusing.
[10:59] <mdz> infinity: have had a chat with celso and after dapper, we can have a go at doing builds without waiting for the publisher
[10:59] <_ion> mdz: I.e. no CDs have actually been sent to the shipping company?
[11:00] <infinity> mdz: \o/
[11:00] <mdz> _ion: the shipping company and the company who manufactures the CDs are the same company
[11:00] <_ion> mdz: Ah, okay.
[11:00] <infinity> mdz: I've told him before that build-from-incoming is a somewhat useful thing for sane security releases anyway (so we don't have to stage interdepending releases), so yay.
[11:00] <dAndy> sivang: (offtopic i know) google.com, search for "site:en.wikipedia.org bikeshed"
[11:03] <OculusAquilae> carlos: ping
[11:04] <carlos> OculusAquilae: pong
[11:05] <OculusAquilae> carlos: hi, here konversation's and k3b's translation is ok, but ktorrent still isn't translated (daily build)
[11:07] <carlos> let me check...
[11:08] <carlos> OculusAquilae: my fault, sorry, It will appear today
[11:08] <OculusAquilae> ok, nice 
[11:10] <OculusAquilae> I'll check again tonight (european)
[11:13] <janimo> carlos: what's the diff between checking the 'someone should review this translation' box, if I am only making suggetsions, not part of the team?
[11:14] <carlos> janimo: atm, nothing at all
[11:14] <janimo> carlos: vs not checking the box.
[11:14] <janimo> carlos: good, thanks
[11:15] <janimo> carlos, is what is worked on now in rosetta  too late for release?
[11:15] <carlos> janimo: I don't understand the question, sorry...
[11:15] <janimo> there's a bug in the Spanish Xfce interface which noone fixed so far
[11:15] <Kamion> ah, I won't bother then, I've occasionally tried to use that box to indicate "I maintain this package and it is obvious to me that this translation is wrong"
[11:16] <Kamion> which happens from time to time
[11:16] <janimo> like I did an dedit now in rosetta, will it make dapper or only updates?
[11:16] <carlos> Kamion: well, you, as the maintainer should have rights to edit any translation... I should fix that bug
[11:16] <Kamion> carlos: that would be lovely, certainly :-)
[11:16] <Kamion> there are a few installer translations I just know to routinely ignore
[11:17] <carlos> janimo: the final language pack will be generate on Monday
[11:17] <janimo> carlos, ah nice then it will hopefully get fixed by then
[11:17] <carlos> with translations done until Sunday
[11:17] <janimo> ok
[11:17] <infinity> mdz: Second publisher run going for OOo binaries.
[11:17] <infinity> mdz: We should be building images in ~25 mins.
[11:18] <mdz> infinity: woo
[11:18] <carlos> janimo: you would need to talk with jordi, he's sorting the order of importance for Ubuntu packages (which ones should be translated first)
[11:18] <carlos> janimo: and he will need some help from you for XFC
[11:18] <janimo> carlos, ok I'll drop in #rosetta today
[11:19] <carlos> janimo: #launchpad please, #rosetta is not used
[11:19] <infinity> Hrm, if this is the last OOo upload of the release, LP's going to list me as the creator of OOo.  That's so not good.
[11:19] <carlos> infinity: are we building new OO.org packages?
[11:19] <carlos> :-(
[11:19] <carlos> OO.org's translations take two days to be imported....
[11:20] <infinity> carlos: Better start now.  They're all uploaded now. :)
[11:20] <carlos> infinity: well, it's finishing previous build..
[11:20] <mdz> carlos: yes, with new untranslated .desktop files!
[11:21] <carlos> mdz: how did you added those new .desktop files ?
[11:21] <mdz> carlos: they're not new, but the strings changed
[11:21] <infinity> Shoehorn and lube.
[11:21] <carlos> ok
[11:23] <Kamion> infinity: please reduce OOo's memory usage immediately kthxbye
[11:24] <infinity> alias openoffice=vim
[11:24] <infinity> Sure, it won't help a lot, with the way VIM's been bloating in the past 5 years, but it'll help a smidge. :)
[11:24] <Kamion> heh
[11:27] <infinity> Dear drescher, If you really loved me, you'd sprout a CPU from the future and insanely fast solid state disks.  Regards, Adam.
[11:28] <infinity> PS, when you get tat CPU from the future, feel free to use your new AI features to optimise soyuz on-disk.
[11:30] <Kamion> I'll settle for the queue tool not making me want to get a coffee each time I run it
[11:30] <infinity> It only makes you want coffee?  Such restraint.
[11:31] <infinity> Kamion: Are you ready to log in to lithium, batch up some commands, and hover over the [enter]  key? :)
[11:32] <infinity> Actually, do we want to bother building new alternates for the new OOo, or should we just do -desktop- CDs?
[11:32] <infinity> mdz: ?
[11:33] <Kamion> infinity: yes
[11:34] <mdz> infinity: yes
[11:34] <Kamion> tell me when I can start building alternates
[11:34] <infinity> Kamion: Alright, then.  Batch up some alternate builds, and I'll give the word when the  publisher exits. :)
[11:34] <Kamion> don't need a new ubuntu-server, do I?
[11:34] <infinity> Nope.
[11:34] <infinity> Nothing changed there since the last build.
[11:35] <infinity> Should just want {u,ku,edu,xu}buntu alternates.
[11:35] <infinity> "just"
[11:35] <Kamion> ready when you are
[11:35] <mdz> infinity: are the new livefses building now?
[11:36] <infinity> mdz: Not until the publisher exits.  Chicken and eggs and all.
[11:36] <mdz> oh, still waiting on the publisher
[11:36] <infinity> Well, I can statr all but amd64...
[11:36] <Kamion> hardly worth it
[11:36] <mdz> amd64 is the fastest, isn't it?
[11:36] <infinity> But since amd64 isn't appreciably faster than powerpc and i386, there's not much point.
[11:36] <mdz> oh
[11:38] <infinity> Kamion: No point in re-rolling any ports images, BTW, if you were about to.
[11:39] <infinity> Kamion: LiveCD is universally broken for various reasons on all of them, and the only thing that would have changed on the alternate is OOo on ia64.. Which no ones actually tested to see if it even works.
[11:39] <Kamion> ok, no, hadn't queued those up
[11:39] <infinity> (It just gets it for free from the OOo-amd64 build)
[11:41] <mdz> almost there
[11:43] <Kamion> 'ps -u lp_publish xf' is easier to remember
[11:43] <Kamion> hm, 'ps -u lp_publish f' I mean
[11:43] <infinity> potayto, potahto.
[11:44] <Keybuk> watch "ps f -u 1004" ? :)
[11:44] <Kamion> let's call the whole thing off
[11:44] <Keybuk> because then you get to say "P.S. F.U" :)
[11:44] <Keybuk> infinity: you say potato, I say vodka!
[11:44] <infinity> There, mirrors triggering.
[11:45] <infinity> Kamion: Go! :)
[11:45] <mdz> go go gadget cdimage
[11:45] <Kamion> going
[11:46] <Kamion> you know I should've put an echo in between cd builds there, oh well
[11:46] <Kamion> not to mention screened it ...
[11:46] <infinity> screen is for the weak.
[11:46] <infinity> I say that because I also forgot to screen the livefs builds. :)
[11:46] <infinity> I'm sure my DSL will hold up for the next hour.... Maybe...
[11:47] <Kamion> we rock
[11:47] <infinity> Kamion: Are you running the alternate builds serially?
[11:48] <Kamion> yes, I'm still in habits due to a machine with crap I/O
[11:48] <infinity> (So when livefses start rolling in, I can do livecd builds in parallel..)
[11:48] <Kamion> sure
[11:48] <Kamion> although most of the alternate builds will be done by that time
[11:48] <Kamion> the livefs builds are serial, I presume
[11:48] <infinity> Show off.
[11:48] <Kamion> not my fault your stuff is slow ;)
[11:49] <infinity> Yeah, I need to spec (and allot myself time for) livefs build re-engineering during edgy.
[11:49] <infinity> I'm pretty sure I can cut the build time nearly in half in some cases.
[11:49] <infinity> I just don't feel the urge to do it in the last week before release.
[11:50] <Kamion> the layered-unionfs idea would be great to have if it's at all feasible
[11:50] <Kamion> though I guess the ubiquity code to work around the lack of that is relatively stable
[11:50] <infinity> Even if it's not, I can simulate it with a deboostrap cache.
[11:50] <janimo> Kamion: for the release, you'll take care of the  xubuntu gfxboot new image too right?
[11:50] <janimo> converting usplash->to rle, etc
[11:50] <Kamion> janimo: how about I start on it now while waiting for stuff to build
[11:51] <janimo> Kamion: cool, there's a bug filed, but you can just get xubuntu-artwork
[11:51] <infinity> janimo: Did up upload omeg's usplash image already?
[11:51] <janimo> infinity: yes
[11:51] <infinity> janimo: I might want to grab xubuntu-artwork and fix it a bit. :)
[11:51] <janimo> infinity: ok go ahead :)
[11:51] <Kamion> yes I have the bug here
[11:51] <janimo> hmm?
[11:52] <janimo> I knew it could not be the last...
[11:52] <infinity> Yeah, I need to cut out the progress bar, since we did so for ubuntu and edubuntu.
[11:52] <infinity> (To get rid of the "glow" around it)
[11:52] <infinity> No big deal.
[11:52] <janimo> oh, I liked that glow :)
[11:52] <janimo> anyway
[11:52] <ogra> me too :)
[11:52] <Kamion> huh, the progress bar is part of the image now?
[11:53] <Kamion> I'll cut it out for the gfxboot image
[11:53] <ogra> the backgroung
[11:53] <janimo> but the gfxbott image does not use the glow no, so should not be blcked on this?
[11:53] <ogra> s/g/d
[11:53] <infinity> janimo: Well, you can keep it if you want.  We cut it from ubuntu after some long discussions on the matter, then omeg decided he'd rather they were consistent, so figured we should cut it from all of them.
[11:53] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, doesn't affect you, just cut it out. :)
[11:53] <janimo> infinity: +1 for consistency
[11:53] <janimo> so whatever ubuntu uses, I just was not aware of it
[11:54] <janimo> so how does one know how much time is approximately left if there;s no progress bar?
[11:54] <Keybuk> janimo: progress bar consists of a backing colour and a foreground colour
[11:54] <Keybuk> the backing colour is lighter than the backgroundf
[11:54] <infinity> janimo: Err, the progress bar is drawn by usplash.  The bar you see on your PNG is entirely covered up, except for a small glow around the edges.
[11:54] <Keybuk> both colours are drawn by usplash, over top of whatever was in the PNG there anyway
[11:55] <morgs> Kamion: bug 46534
[11:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46534 in ubiquity "Infinite loop selecting drive to partition" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46534
[11:55] <Keybuk> when I did the ubuntu art, I cut the artwork to just the logo to reduce size and stuff
[11:55] <Keybuk> and mostly because I didn't realise there was a glow there ;)
[11:55] <infinity> morgs: That's fixed in the images we're building right now.
[11:55] <morgs> infinity: thx!
[11:55] <janimo> Keybuk: so now you're on the art-team too ;) ?
[11:55] <Keybuk> janimo: no, I'm on the "infinity's bitch" team
[11:56] <ogra> janimo, Keybuk is older than the art team as launchpads emblem art directory
[11:56] <infinity> The emblem art director?
[11:57] <ogra> yeah :)
[11:57] <infinity> Keybuk: I have you to blame for my lp-buildd bricks-and-spade emblem? :)
[11:57] <Keybuk> ogra: heh, I've been futzing with ubuntu's artwork for longer than that; I'm vaguely responsible for the ubuntu logo lettertype
[11:57] <Keybuk> infinity: no, I just did the ubuntu-code-dev hammer (by copying an icon, not exactly rocket science)
[11:58] <mdz> morgs: sounds like a duplicate of bug 46398
[11:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46398 in ubiquity ""Select a disk" loops forever..." [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46398
[11:59] <infinity> Keybuk: I hope you appreciate the effort that went into the archive emblem.  You have no idea how hard it is to make a floppy disk look like a floppy disk at that size without just looking like a little blob of pixels in a box. :)
[11:59] <sladen> dholbach: what's the deal with the over-sized network-manager logs;  I'm loathed to fix it and create an addition upload as it's a 10MB download for everyone
[11:59] <sladen> dholbach: OTOH, it's annoying and the latest change has been to resize the *wrong* icon
[12:00] <dholbach> sladen: i have no idea what you are talking about. I never made any changes to network manager's logs - I didn't even know that network manager *writes* logs
[12:00] <sladen> dholbach: s/logs/logos/ icons
[12:00] <morgs> mdz: yes it is a dupe... I did search but clearly only saw open bugs
[12:00] <Keybuk> heh @ http://modernduck.com/
[12:01] <dholbach> sladen: are you talking about gnome-netstatus applet?
[12:01] <Keybuk> infinity: but we don't SHIP on floppies
[12:01] <sladen> dholbach: yes, bug #34521, currently assigned to you
[12:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34521 in ubuntu-artwork "network monitor's icon have too much unused space" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34521
[12:01] <infinity> Keybuk: We should. :)
[12:01] <dholbach> sladen: ok, so that's not network-manager
[12:01] <infinity> Keybuk: Go back to our roots... But instead of downloading a few dozen floppies, now you get thousands!
[12:02] <sladen> dholbach: yes.  s/network-manager/gnome-netstatus/g;s/logs/icons/g
[12:02] <dholbach> sladen: wait for ubuntu-artwork 24
[12:02] <dholbach> sladen: i uploaded it, but it is currently held for the RC freeze
[12:02] <ogra> infinity, what became of the masterplan to ship on punchcards ? 
[12:02] <sladen> dholbach: is it already fixed in there, or does it need adding to there?
[12:02] <sladen> dholbach: ah
[12:02] <Kamion> morgs: I do read my e-mail too ... :-)
[12:02] <dholbach> sladen: you can try http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ubuntu-artwork_24_all.deb as well
[12:02] <infinity> ogra: We all became dirty hippies who wanted to save the trees.
[12:03] <ogra> infinity, plastic cards ;) 
[12:03] <Kamion> but thanks for the effort
[12:03] <morgs> Kamion: thx, I'll go away now and wait patiently :-)
[12:04] <Kamion> ogra: trees -> compression over lots and lots of time -> oil -> plastic
[12:05] <Keybuk> infinity: no doubt Mithrandir can come up with some sick initramfs/unionfs/etc. trick that means we can do a LiveFloppy
[12:05] <ogra> bah :)
[12:05] <infinity> Keybuk: Dude, ew.
[12:05] <fabbione> Keybuk: lol
[12:05] <Keybuk> boot with the first one (boot loader) that asks you to insert each subequent one until it's got all of the kernel and initramfs together, then boot those to get you to insert the rest and build up the rofs
[12:05] <infinity> Keybuk: You're SO gonna get it in Paris for that.
[12:06] <infinity> Hrm, our kernel is JUST over floppy-sized now.... I hadn't noticed that we'd crossed that barrier.
[12:07] <ogra> Keybuk, with gnome and everything ? 
[12:07] <Keybuk> ogra: of course
[12:07] <Keybuk> we'd never have to worry about it being oversized
[12:07] <Keybuk> JUST ADD MORE FLOPPIES! :D
[12:07] <infinity> FloppyOffice could set new records for launch time.
[12:07] <infinity> Especially if you need to keep inserting old floppies to page data in.
[12:07] <Kamion> you'd have to find a machine that can only boot off floppies but yet has enough memory to assemble it all
[12:08] <infinity> "Please insert floppy #258 ... <grind, grind> ... Please insert floppy #134"
[12:08] <infinity> Kamion: Assemble, aschmemble.  You keep a table of which floppy has which parts of the FS, and you just keep swapping back and forth.
[12:08] <infinity> Random access floppy array.
[12:09] <iwj> It should be a kernel block device driver with a kernel-provided graphical dialogue box to pop up and ask you to change the disk.
[12:09] <Keybuk> given the failure rate and typical half-life of floppies these days, you'd probably have to do some kind of RAID
[12:10] <infinity> Keybuk: Floppy RAID makes sense, yes.
[12:10] <ogra> lol
[12:10] <iwj> `Floppy no #134 has gone bad.  Please remove it and throw it away.'
[12:10] <infinity> (I wondered why it wasn't built into the spec in the first place, like it is for CD audio, for instance)
[12:10] <iwj> infinity: Because the hardware used to be reliable enough that it worked properly.
[12:10] <_ion> http://ohlssonvox.8k.com/fdd_raid.htm
[12:10] <iwj> Nowadays floppies (the disks) are cheap but dreadful.
[12:10] <infinity> iwj: True.  The drives were better, and no one assumed you'd keep a floppy for 10 years either, I suspect.
[12:11] <morgs> http://ohlssonvox.8k.com/fdd_raid.htm
[12:11] <Keybuk> I actually went out of my way to ensure I got a floppy drive in the AMD64
[12:11] <Keybuk> and I've never used it
[12:11] <infinity> morgs: You're echoing...
[12:11] <iwj> _ion, morgs: That lacks the `please insert ...' factor.
[12:12] <infinity> Keybuk: I had to scam one from another box when I build Zofia's amd64 machine, just to get the &@#$$@ SATA controller recognised by the WinXP installer.
[12:12] <dholbach> mdz: ok with uploading  http://librarian.launchpad.net/2922282/legacy-icon-mapping_xfce_step_2.diff ? that would add more icon symlinks for the XFCE guys, making them happier - what do you think? (it will cause the icon sets to have to be rebuilt, but I think I'd have uploaded them at least once anyway)
[12:12] <Keybuk> infinity: heh, which controller?
[12:12] <infinity> Keybuk: (since floppy is still the ONLY method MS gives you for loading SCSI drivers in the installer)
[12:12] <ogra> hey, lets user the elastic 720k ones .... ubuntu "the first distro with wobbly media instead of wobbly windows"
[12:12] <infinity> Keybuk: Just a plain old VIA southbridge of some sort or other.  Just happened to be newer than XP.
[12:12] <Kamion> Ubuntu and Kubuntu alternate builds are done, BTW
[12:13] <omeg> Alternate builds?
[12:13] <Keybuk> omeg: the CD formerlly known as "install"
[12:14] <ogra> omeg, come over to edubuntu, we'll keep the familiar old names like live and install ;)
[12:14] <infinity> I love this quote: I was able to transfer "DEVO Uncontrolable Urge.mp3" which is 3.6 MB in 32 seconds. Which is pretty good I think.
[12:15] <Kamion> "alternate install CD"
[12:15] <_ion> infinity: :-)
[12:16] <omeg> Er, I'm sure that new way of naming CDs will make sense once I get them.
[12:18] <infinity> mdz: Oh, if you're curious, amd64 was actually the slowest livefs build, not the fastest.
[12:18] <infinity> (Just barely)
[12:18] <mdz> dholbach: is that last hunk a whitespacechange?
[12:18] <mdz> infinity: interesting, why?
[12:18] <mdz> powerpc used to be slowest by a good margin
[12:18] <infinity> mdz: Because terranova and royal are beasts, I suspect.
[12:19] <infinity> mdz: PPC useed to be the slowest before it got a 64-bit kernel.
[12:19] <dholbach> mdz: I suppose so - it's a patch somebody from the xfce guys contributed
[12:19] <infinity> mdz: Then the PPC machines becamse the speed demons of the DC.
[12:19] <infinity> became, too.
[12:19] <mdz> dholbach: seems harmless enough
[12:19] <dholbach> mdz: ok cool
[12:20] <janimo> dholbach: thanks, is this from nomed directly or upstream tango?
[12:20] <Kamion> janimo: done; I'm afraid you'll have mismatched gfxboot splash images for the RC though, as I didn't do it in time for the Xubuntu alternate install build
[12:20] <dholbach> janimo: I applied the upstream change already
[12:20] <ptlo> heya all. i've heard rumors that translation deadline has been pushed to 28th instead of today, is that true? (the -translator list doesn't mention it)
[12:20] <janimo> Kamion: np, thanks
[12:20] <dholbach> janimo: it's from nomed, yes
[12:21] <Riddell> I take it it's still OK if openoffice.org2 packages can't be installed by the CD builder
[12:21] <janimo> Kamion: unless OOo needs another build :)
[12:21] <infinity> Riddell: Yeah..
[12:21] <infinity> Kamion: Were we ever going to look at that archive cruft/buggery, or just blindly ignore it? :)
[12:21] <janimo> ptlo: I was told this Sunday is the last day
[12:22] <Kamion> infinity: I was certainly hoping to do something about it before release
[12:22] <Kamion> Riddell: but in the meantime, yeah, ignore that
[12:22] <Kamion> Edubuntu alternate install builds done
[12:22] <ogra> thanks :)
[12:24] <ptlo> janimo: thanks
[12:26] <ogra> sladen, ltsp-4.2 installs should be treated like firefox or flash installs from the binary packages in malone the implementation differs to much from ours to easily support it 
[12:26] <infinity> New ubuntu -desktop- CDs ready for testing.
[12:27] <fabbione> infinity: danke
[12:27] <ogra> sladen, but feel free to subscribe me to all such bugs :)
[12:28] <sladen> ogra: which is your prefered 'generic package' to have LTSP-related bugs assigned to?
[12:28] <ogra> ltsp :)
[12:29] <ogra> but 4.2 isnt supported its a completely separate implementation that installs a comeplete chroot from a 200MB tarball ...
[12:29] <mdz> Kamion: are the desktop builds all done?
[12:29] <Kamion> mdz: infinity's doing those; Ubuntu's done, don't think the others are
[12:29] <infinity> mdz: No, just Ubuntu desktop builds.
[12:29] <ogra> so thats upstream ltsp.org stuff ...
[12:31] <Kamion> janimo: Xubuntu alternate install builds done
[12:31] <infinity> So, do we reset the table to all ??s before we get started on this batch?
[12:31] <janimo> ok, rsyincing
[12:32] <_ion> dholbach: Re: bug 40607, generally everything seems to work very well with the patch, but there's one problem: the "close" button in tabs is very small, but the dialog-close icon isn't scaled down, instead only its center is shown. Any thoughts?
[12:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40607 in tango-icon-theme-common "Ok/Cancel buttons" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40607
[12:32] <janimo> Kamion, I wonder if the Xubuntu text should say 128M of ram instead of 192. The alternate CD installs and somewhat runs on 64M too
[12:32] <Kamion> oh, Xubuntu's still mirroring, meh
[12:33] <Kamion> janimo: how much memory does it take to do a desktop CD install on Xubuntu?
[12:33] <Kamion> that's the relevant number
[12:33] <janimo> Kamion, 128M w/o swap worked in qemu for me
[12:33] <giftnudel> more then 64
[12:33] <Kamion> janimo: ok, sure, I'll change the text for the next build then
[12:33] <infinity> "As much as python wants, muahaha"
[12:33] <janimo> giftnudel:  64M is for the alternate install
[12:33] <giftnudel> yes
[12:33] <dholbach> _ion: somebody told me that stock icons were in 20x20 - maybe that's a problem
[12:33] <dholbach> _ion: I don't know for sure
[12:34] <giftnudel> janimo: the desktop needs more than that
[12:34] <janimo> 128 and no swap, exactly as the OLPC specs :)
[12:34] <ogra> irgh, where does this awful ugly g-p-m icon come from =
[12:34] <janimo> giftnudel: yup as I said desktop 128, alternate 64
[12:34] <giftnudel> janimo: yes, i didn't get that
[12:35] <_ion> dholbach: Well, there's a 16x16 dialog-close icon in Tango. But apparently only the middle 9x9 of a close icon is shown in the tabs' close buttons.
[12:35] <Kamion> janimo: the actual alternate *install* should work in 32MB; but it might take more to run the desktop I guess
[12:35] <dholbach> _ion: that I don't know.
[12:35] <_ion> Seems more like a Gtk problem than an icon theme problem.
[12:35] <ogra> dholbach, did the hicolor theme change wrt g-p-m ? i dont have the beautiful green battery in gartoon anymore
[12:36] <janimo> Kamion: well I run it on a 64M laptop. It is slow though
[12:36] <dholbach> ogra: gpm 2.14.x doesnt have icon theme lookup in its code
[12:36] <janimo> especially firefox
[12:36] <ogra> gah
[12:36] <ogra> thats evil
[12:36] <dholbach> ogra: I changed the 'hardcoded' icons to be the ones our designer made
[12:36] <ogra> it looks awful since it doesnt match gartoon at all anymore
[12:37] <Kamion> janimo: BTW I committed a d-i change yesterday that should make it snappier on slow machines - stopped cdebconf having to save its templates database between every installer step
[12:37] <janimo> Kamion: but mentioning 128M is ok for both I gues
[12:37] <Kamion> (upstream, not dapper)
[12:37] <janimo> so edgy?
[12:37] <Kamion> yeah
[12:37] <ogra> dholbach, cant you just use them in the icon theme ? so others have a fallbach that doesnt look like a "heizdecke" ?
[12:37] <dholbach> ogra: read my last sentence :)
[12:38] <Kamion> janimo: limits changed to 128MB for Xubuntu desktop CD; I've made it quote memory requirements on the desktop CD page as well as the alternate install CD page too
[12:38] <dholbach> ogra: gpm 2.14.x doesnt have icon theme lookup in its code
[12:38] <janimo> Kamion: thanks.
[12:38] <ogra> grmbl ... i thought that was added with 2.12.x already
[12:39] <ogra> dholbach, sorry then ...
[12:39] <mvo> dholbach: that sounds like a edgy spec: bring icon-theme suppoer to the world
[12:39] <Kamion> janimo: oh, you have some uninstallables on your CD, looks like oversizing
[12:39] <Kamion> janimo: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/report.html
[12:39] <janimo> ohh
[12:39] <janimo> since yesterday?
[12:40] <Kamion> janimo: adding language-support-* to the CD is ambitious, although I guess you might have space if anyone does
[12:40] <Kamion> janimo: dunno, I just checked today
[12:40] <ogra> mvo, the code for g-p-m theme support is there since ages... its just not committed to any released version it seems
[12:40] <janimo> rigth I added 15 langpack yestreday but to desktop cd
[12:40] <Kamion> yesterday had language-support-{en,es} uninstallable on powerpc too
[12:40] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/20060524/report.html
[12:40] <janimo> it's most;y ppc stuff
[12:41] <janimo> as yesterdays install was tested by Gloubiboulga and the only hitch was the ltsp thing
[12:41] <infinity> Yeah, PPC's CDs are a bit tighter, since it has to ship two kernels.
[12:41] <janimo> oh and I added the langpacks only to 386 and amd64
[12:41] <janimo> so it may be something else
[12:41] <Kamion> janimo: amd64 is fractionally oversized (.25MB); powerpc is 3MB over
[12:41] <Kamion> I'm pulling your seeds now to have a look
[12:41] <janimo> somewhere I can see these numbers?
[12:42] <infinity> You can see the exact numbers in the filesizes of the generated images. :)
[12:42] <infinity> You can get pretty good guesses from running germinate against your seeds.
[12:42] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/xubuntu-daily-20060525.log, search for "CD 2 will only"
[12:42] <infinity> (Which is handy if you're playing with changes to langpack shipping and such)
[12:43] <Kamion> infinity: no you can't actually in this case, unfortunately
[12:43] <Kamion> (filesizes of generated images)
[12:43] <infinity> Kamion: Oh, right, it's overflow.
[12:43] <Kamion> debian-cd crops to 700MB internally and overflows onto another CD - it's only visible in the build log
[12:43] <ogra> xubuntu oversized ?
[12:43] <infinity> Kamion: Was only thinking oversize, not overflow.
[12:44] <infinity> ogra: He has WAY more languages supported than you. :P
[12:44] <Keybuk> http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=18858
[12:44] <infinity> He may have just gone overboard a bit.,
[12:44] <Keybuk> oops, ww (but funny anyway)
[12:44] <ogra> infinity, you mean more than one ? 
[12:44] <janimo> ogra, more than 15 ;)
[12:44] <ogra> :P
[12:44] <Kamion> janimo: you have a crapload of language-support-* on all architectures; would be easy to trim that
[12:45] <ogra> janimo, make that 14 (at least on ppc and amd64) ;P
[12:45] <janimo> Kamion: right. So I'll take some out of ship right?
[12:45] <Kamion> janimo: yeah, you can make some [i386 amd64]  or [i386]  -specific if you like
[12:48] <Kamion> and yes, as infinity says, germinate is handy for judging the effects of seed changes in advance
[12:48] <Keybuk> indeed, that's what germinate was originally designed for ;)
[12:49] <Keybuk> rather than actually driving the archive changes
[12:50] <_ion> dholbach: http://librarian.launchpad.net/2924006/close-problem.png (screenshot), http://librarian.launchpad.net/2924007/close-solution.png (mockup)
[12:50] <mdz> dholbach: I still get that problem where I can't drag files out of example-content due to it being read-only; did you or seb128 find any more info about that?
[12:53] <dholbach> mdz: hum, it works nicely for me, are /usr/ and /home/ on different partitions? I just remember something about that.
[12:54] <heno> dholbach: that's what I get too, but most people may not set it up that way
[12:54] <dholbach> _ion: I see the problem.
[12:54] <mdz> dholbach: no
[12:54] <dholbach> heno: *did* you set it up that way?
[12:54] <dholbach> hrm
[12:54] <mdz> everything on /
[12:54] <heno> dholbach: separate partitions, yes
[12:54] <mdz> dholbach: this is on the live CD
[12:55] <mdz> jamesh: around?
[12:55] <heno> mdz: so it's sort of expected behaviour, no?
[12:55] <jamesh> mdz: yeah
[12:55] <heno> except that it will confuse new users
[12:56] <dholbach> mdz: oh right... well that works for me.... could you try    gnomevfs-copy /usr/share/example-content/Experience\ ubuntu.ogg ~    and see if that gives any output?
[12:56] <infinity> Kubuntu -desktop- images are all ready.
[12:57] <janimo> Kamion: so will the ppc and amd images need a rebuild for RC? I made the russian lang support pack i386 only (~5MB)
[12:57] <mdz> doko_: ping
[12:58] <dholbach> mdz: he said he was bitten by the mexican bug, when we talked yesterday (briefly)
[12:59] <Keybuk> sure, he's just hiding because of all the pain and suffering OO.o has caused
[12:59] <Kamion> janimo: yeah, let me know when
[12:59] <mdz> Keybuk: and I just found another bug
[12:59] <heno> dholbach, mdz: FWIW, there is a section in 'about-these-files' that explains how to copy them to your home dir
[12:59] <mdz> Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/46544
[12:59] <infinity> Keybuk: Sometimes, conflict avoidance /is/ rational.
[12:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46544 in openoffice.org "Launchpad integration points to Breezy package" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:00] <Keybuk> mdz: do we have any clickthrough states for lpi?
[01:00] <Keybuk> uh, stats?
[01:00] <infinity> mdz: Ahh, at least that doesn't feel terribly RC critical.
[01:00] <mdz> Keybuk: no idea
[01:00] <Keybuk> maybe I should ask in the right channel
[01:00] <mdz> infinity: no, but should be fixed for final unfortunately
[01:00] <impaque> hello, i just wanted to ask with what CFLAGS is majority of packages for ubuntu built with?
[01:01] <infinity> mdz: I can deal with more uploads to fix stuff for final.  I just refuse to upload again for RC. :)
[01:01] <Keybuk> imbrandon: -pipe -funroll-loops
[01:01] <imbrandon> ?
[01:01] <Keybuk> oh, wait, UBUNTU :)
[01:01] <impaque> Keybuk: yes, ie. majority of it's packages. :)
[01:01] <infinity> mdz: If doko's down for the count, though, I don't mind fixing this particular typo after RC.  It's trivial, afterall.
[01:02] <jamesh> -pipe makes programs run faster, doesn't it?
[01:02] <Keybuk> impaque: we don't use any
[01:02] <Keybuk> just -g -O2 as you'd expect
[01:02] <infinity> (We do use -pipe, actually, not that it makes any difference anywhere but on the buildd)
[01:02] <jamesh> :)
[01:02] <impaque> Keybuk: ok, no -mcpu?
[01:02] <Keybuk> infinity: oh, wow, we should so press release that! :)
[01:02] <impaque> infinity: :D
[01:03] <mdz> infinity: actually the bug is that it's hardcoded at all.  I didn't realize it was
[01:03] <infinity> And we override -march/-mcpu on i386, yes.
[01:03] <mdz> but I guess we need to settle for fixing the hardcoded URL for dapper
[01:03] <impaque> infinity: ok, thanks!
[01:03] <infinity> mdz: Would you prefer that it goes to the more generic URL?
[01:03] <Keybuk> -m*mumble* 486 -m*whisper* pentium4 isn't it?
[01:03] <mdz> infinity: I'd prefer it used launchpad-integration like everything else
[01:04] <mdz> Keybuk: no, those are the defaults now
[01:04] <infinity> -mtune=pentium4 -march=i486
[01:04] <Kamion> I'm going to have to work out how lpi works for ubiquity and oem-config in edgy, I guess
[01:04] <infinity> But yes, those are the default now anyway, and I'd love to just scrap gcc-opt completely.
[01:04] <impaque> infinity: so, no i386. and, yes, there is -mtune?
[01:05] <infinity> mdz: And where would lpi send users?  The generic URL?
[01:05] <mdz> infinity: it looks it up in lsb_release
[01:05] <Keybuk> infinity: oh, they renamed -mcpu to -mtune; wow, I may actually remember which one does what now
[01:05] <Keybuk> impaque: libstdc++ doesn't support i386 ... cf. Debian passim.
[01:05] <mdz> whereas oo.o apparently does this: ++                                      rtl::OUString aURI( DEFINE_CONST_UNICODE( "https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/openoffice.org2/+gethelp" ) );
[01:05] <ogra> meh
[01:05] <infinity> mdz: Ahh, kay.
[01:06] <mdz> infinity: don't forget s/org2/org/ as well when you fix it
[01:06] <infinity> mdz: I'll test the URL before I upload. :)
[01:06] <mdz> that renaming was a change that I VETOED btw
 Get Help Online has never been implemented
[01:06] <mdz> Keybuk: s/$/ yet/
[01:06] <impaque> thanks
[01:07] <ogra> mdz, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20060525/report.html agrees with you :)
[01:07] <ogra> (will we get rid of these for final ?)
[01:07] <Kamion> I hope so, yes
[01:07] <infinity> ogra: Yes.
[01:07] <ogra> ah, good
[01:07] <Kamion> I'll look at it when we're past RC, and figure out the best answer
[01:09] <Keybuk> mdz: right, that's what I thought -- we just used the gcc defaults
[01:09] <janimo> Kamion: seeds are mirrored now
[01:11] <infinity> Keybuk: Well, GCC only recently changed to match gcc-opt..
[01:11] <infinity> Keybuk: But NOW, we really should just drop gcc-opt like a hot potato, IMO.
[01:11] <Keybuk> infinity: I still remember with a cold sweat the day that gcc enabled optimisation by default
[01:11] <Keybuk> and debugging got that little bit harder
[01:12] <mdz> Kamion,ogra: curiously, Fedora's installer doesn't seem to suffer from bug 22930
[01:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 22930 in gtk "Mouse focus doesn't return until mouse is moved off button" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/22930
[01:12] <ogra> hmm
[01:12] <infinity> I wonder if they've fixed GTK, or hacked around it in their installer...
[01:12] <ogra> i know there are workarounds on C level
[01:12] <infinity> If they've fixed GTK, *I want that fix*.
[01:13] <ogra> i guess they just work around it in the app ... but i might be wrong
[01:13] <Keybuk> the cheeky thing is that the RH GTK+ maintainer is the same as the Debian one
[01:13] <mdz> if they worked around it in the app, we want that fix too
[01:13] <janimo> what is affected now by this bug besides hwdb?
[01:13] <mdz> janimo: ubiquity
[01:13] <mdz> very prominently
[01:13] <infinity> Yeah, and it's REALLY annoying in ubiquity.
[01:13] <janimo> I tought it was worked around
[01:14] <ogra> janimo, the logoutr dialog we have as well
[01:14] <janimo> ogra, xfce logout dialog had it but got fixed
[01:14] <ogra> janimo, HOW ?
[01:14] <infinity> Less of an issue for the logout dialog, since you're not likely to have your mouse over one of the buttons as the window comes into focus.
[01:14] <janimo> it may be more than only one bug thought
[01:14] <ogra> thats what we're looking for !
[01:14] <infinity> Ubiquity, where you just hover over the "next" button is horrible.
[01:15] <janimo> ogra, it messed with direct X grabs, and needed to be told to mess with them in another way
[01:15] <Kamion> mdz: they probably don't (need to) disable buttons between steps
[01:15] <janimo> so was not clean gtk anyway
[01:15] <Kamion> yes, that bug is extremely annoying
[01:15] <ogra> infinity, i know where the logout dialog appears after using it twice ... so my mouse usually is where the button appears
[01:15] <Kamion> if you never disable/enable buttons, you don't encounter the problem
[01:16] <Kamion> ogra: do you happen to know the C-level workaround?
[01:16] <ogra> mdz, i'll dig through it to find out what RH did before final
[01:16] <ogra> Kamion, nope
[01:16] <ogra> Kamion, see comment 18 here http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56070
[01:16] <Kamion> janimo: thanks, rebuilding
[01:16] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 56070 in gtk "Can't click button after setting it sensitive." [Normal,Reopened]  
[01:17] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, I wonder if that would actually be better
[01:17] <ogra> and comment 19's attachment
[01:17] <Kamion> the hack in comment 19 definitely wouldn't be acceptable
[01:17] <Kamion> I'm not hooking motion-notify-event and sitting computing pointer positions all the time
[01:18] <ogra> yep
[01:18] <janimo> but the logout dialog buttons are not disabled at any point are they?
[01:18] <Kamion> mdz: possibly. it's a useful visual clue, but the cursor change is probably sufficient for that
[01:18] <Kamion> I'd have to teach the back/forward handlers to do nothing in that case
[01:19] <ogra> janimo, nope, but if your mouse is above the one you want to click if the dialog appears, it is unresponsive
[01:19] <janimo> ogra: yes i know, that's wh I think it's a deeper bug or more than one bug
[01:19] <ogra> janimo, its a gtk bug 
[01:19] <ogra> a very old one
[01:19] <Keybuk> Kamion: there's an easy hack to that
[01:19] <Kamion> the logout dialog is only an issue due to FIST-sized buttons :)
[01:20] <Keybuk> make the button explicitly not sensitive in its click event
[01:20] <Kamion> Keybuk: what do you mean?
[01:20] <ogra> Keybuk, ??
[01:22] <StevenK> I think I get where Keybuk is going.
[01:22] <ogra> explain it to us 
[01:23] <Keybuk> Kamion: got WORKRAVE'd there :p
[01:23] <Keybuk> let me "fix" the demo to show you
[01:23] <StevenK> Okay. Keybuk can show, since I can't seem to find the words to explain it.
[01:24] <ogra> StevenK, use gestures :P
[01:24] <StevenK> They tend not to translate into IRC.
[01:25] <ogra> depends how wordy you describe them ;)
[01:25] <Kamion> if you mean "just make the clicked event do nothing if you don't want the button to do anything", that was my plan ...
[01:25] <StevenK> That's what I was trying to get out.
[01:25] <ogra> you mean dont fiddle with sensitivity at all
[01:25] <Kamion> (since I'm already handling clicked)
[01:26] <StevenK> Kamion: With any visual clue that pressing the button will have no effect at all?
[01:26] <mdz> i386 desktop CD is good here
[01:26] <Keybuk> what I was suggesting was explicitly generating the "mouse off" event when you pop open the dialog
[01:26] <Keybuk> that way, when the dialog is closed, gtk thinks you moved off the mouse anyway
[01:26] <Kamion> StevenK: well, that's why I set them insensitive at the moment, but we do also set the mouse cursor to busy
[01:26] <mdz> bug 46544 / bug 46546 were the only issues I encountered
[01:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46544 in openoffice.org "Launchpad integration points to Breezy package" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46544
[01:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46546 in openoffice.org "Launchpad integration uses hardcoded URLs" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46546
[01:26] <ogra> i'm not sure its restricted to the sensitivity handling
[01:26] <Kamion> Keybuk: ... eww?
[01:27] <Kamion> Keybuk: though I could see that working ...
[01:27] <mdz> Riddell: how does kubuntu look?
[01:27] <Kamion> neat idea :)
[01:27] <mdz> ogra: and edubuntu?
[01:27] <StevenK> An ugly ugly hack that we rip out during edgy?
[01:27] <Kamion> it'd be a relatively contained hack, I guess
[01:28] <ogra> mdz, ppc missing all others were good in the last build ... i'm just done with rsyncing the recent iso
[01:28] <Kamion> StevenK: s/during edgy/whenever it gets fixed/; it doesn't look trivial, from the upstream bug
[01:28] <StevenK> Kamion: Just surround it with the commands: # Eyes closed now please
[01:28] <ogra> mdz, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
[01:28] <StevenK> Er, s/commands/comments/
[01:28] <Keybuk> Kamion: it may just be button.leave() in PyGTK
[01:28] <mdz> ogra: there's an edubuntu section on /Current, use that instead
[01:28] <ogra> hmm ...
[01:29] <sladen> dholbach: yes, -24 fixes it.  But the main netstatus icon has still be reduced almost to the point of invisibility
[01:29] <ogra> mdz, so should i transfer all data from the sheet the edubuntu-testers team uses ? 
[01:30] <infinity> ogra: New edubuntu -desktop- CDs are ready.
[01:30] <ogra> infinity, thanks
[01:30] <Riddell> mdz: still syncing today's images,last night was all perfect on all 6 CDs
[01:30] <mdz> ogra: yes, if it applies to the same build
[01:31] <ogra> yep, as i said we used the url i just posted for all tests
[01:31] <iwj> Is Testing/Current supposed to have the new version number in it ?
[01:31] <infinity> iwj: Probably.  And it should probably get all the fields reset to "?"
[01:32] <janimo> will there be separate announcements for derivatives?
[01:32] <Kamion> Keybuk: looking at gtkbutton.c, I don't think that would be enough; looks like I'd need an explicit button.emit('leave-notify-event')
[01:32] <iwj> infinity: Willdo then.
[01:32] <Kamion> er with an event parameter there too
[01:33] <infinity> iwj: Don't reset the -server stuff, we didn't build new -server images.
[01:33] <dholbach> sladen: I agree - I will pass it on.
[01:33] <iwj> Are there going to be new DVD's too ?
[01:33] <iwj> infinity: Noted.
[01:33] <infinity> Kamion: Shall we spin new DVDs?
[01:33] <Kamion> or maybe gtk.main_do_event() or something
[01:33] <Kamion> anyway, later
[01:33] <Kamion> infinity: sure, I'll start on that
[01:33] <Kamion> after this xubuntu build
[01:34] <Kamion> actually, I'll start it now
[01:34] <mdz> yay for parallel CD builds
[01:35] <ogra> Riddell, do you plan to fix the "KDM enables usplash on logout" bug before final ? 
[01:36] <iwj> New {,x,k,ed}ubuntu too I take it.
[01:36] <infinity> iwj: yes, they've all been re-rolled, desktop and alternate.
[01:36] <infinity> iwj: Well, Xubuntu images are still being rolled, but otherwise what I said is true.
[01:36] <iwj> Right.
[01:36] <iwj> I'll leave the FAILs in but annotate them with the old version number.
[01:36] <Kamion> janimo: Xubuntu alternate re-rolled
[01:36] <Riddell> ogra: I will take another look at it, but I can't promise to have it working in all cases
[01:37] <janimo> Kamion: thanks
[01:37] <Riddell> it does work in the majority of cases at the moment
[01:37] <Kamion> janimo: you seem to be within size limits now
[01:37] <ogra> Riddell, ok ... seems people using ltsp.org ltsp have that problem as well
[01:37] <infinity> janimo: You'll have Xubuntu -desktop- stuff shortly... Just waiting on a slow buildd.
[01:37] <infinity> "Slow"...
[01:37] <janimo> infinity: oh I tought desktop was done already?
[01:38] <janimo> as it did not need rebuild
[01:38] <infinity> janimo: No, xubuntu was last on my list...
[01:38] <janimo> ok
[01:38] <infinity> janimo: You use ubiquity, yes?
[01:38] <janimo> infinity: yes
[01:38] <infinity> janimo: If so, then you needed this rebuild. :)
[01:38] <janimo> :)
[01:39] <Riddell> ogra: what's the issue they have?  there's a couple of problems there
[01:39] <janimo> Kamion: so is the ltsp fix in RC or not, I did not get that from the changelog
[01:39] <ogra> Riddell, bug 45427
[01:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45427 in kdm "quitting kdm session on xdmcp terminal(ltsp) causes usplash to appear on server session" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45427
[01:39] <Kamion> janimo: there's a workaround in place for RC
[01:39] <janimo> it may need ot be mentioned as a known issue if it is in RC
[01:39] <janimo> ah great
[01:39] <Kamion> janimo: (assuming it worked properly)
[01:39] <Kamion> was basically preseeding ltsp-client-builder/run=false
[01:39] <Riddell> ogra: right, fun
[01:40] <Kamion> janimo: I'd like confirmation that that workaround has worked properly though
[01:40] <janimo> Kamion: sure
[01:41] <mdz> Kamion: 2-disk loop fix confirmed in the current build
[01:42] <Kamion> mdz: hooray
[01:45] <Keybuk> it keeps hanging on me today
[01:45] <Keybuk> rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver] 
[01:45] <fabbione> Keybuk: see #c
[01:45] <Keybuk> heh
[01:45] <ogra> Keybuk, i also have reports in #edubuntu ... is it the server ? 
[01:46] <fabbione> ogra: yes
[01:46] <infinity> s/server/servers/
[01:46] <Keybuk> it would appear to be the server, yes
[01:46] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:46] <jsgotangco> its kind of erratic
[01:46] <Keybuk> infinity: I assumed it was just Znarl reading from a piece of paper and typing very fast
[01:48] <iwj> Urgh, wikis don't make a very good database.
[01:49] <fabbione> sfllaw: one of the bugs has a patch.
[01:49] <fabbione> sfllaw: my hang was due to a GPS serial port connected
[01:49] <sfllaw> Bug 41679 is fixed upstream.
[01:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41679 in wvdial "wvdialconf does not write conf file " [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41679
[01:49] <sfllaw> Bug 31272 has a patch.
[01:49] <fabbione> sfllaw: but i we just don't have time to fix it now with RC out
[01:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31272 in wvdial "wvdial modem detection hangs dapper installer" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31272
[01:49] <fabbione> or almost
[01:49] <sfllaw> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=361040 is a simple problem with "set -e" aborting the configure script.
[01:49] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 361040 in wvdial "Subject: wvdial fails to configure on testing" [Important,Open]  
[01:50] <Kamion> sladen: surely it would be better for bug 38333 to be a duplicate of bug 43114, not the other way round
[01:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38333 in ubiquity "No Hibernation: '/etc/mkinitramfs/conf.d/resume' is not created" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38333
[01:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43114 in acpi-support "GDM Choices Cause Sleep and Hibernate Failure" [Major,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43114
[01:50] <Kamion> the latter has better status and contents
[01:50] <fabbione> sfllaw: i think if you want that stuff in, the person to talk is mdz/Kamion.
[01:51] <sfllaw> fabbione: I personally don't care very much about it making it.
[01:51] <sfllaw> But mdz's comments in 31272 makes it sound like it's release critical.
[01:52] <sfllaw> "Sure, just don't forget to disable it before the release if no other solution is found"
[01:52] <fabbione> sfllaw: ok, so what do you want me to do exactly?
[01:52] <sfllaw> But then again, it's priority Normal, so meh?
[01:52] <fabbione> sfllaw: if you want to prepare the package i can upload it for you with mdz blessing
[01:52] <Kamion> if it's hanging the installer for people, then we can't fix that in updates, so it does need to land before release
[01:52] <sfllaw> fabbione: Basically, it was to give advice about Ubuntu conventions.
[01:53] <fabbione> sfllaw: well if it is an RC issue, let's get it fixed and in the archive (after mdz approval)
[01:53] <sfllaw> fabbione: All right.
[01:53] <fabbione> sfllaw: that's what i would do
[01:54] <sfllaw> I'll prepare Ubuntu packages for WvStreams and WvDial.  And send them to you for vetting.
[01:54] <sfllaw> I don't trust myself to upload directly into the archive yet.
[01:54] <fabbione> sfllaw: just slam the debdiff somewhere
[01:54] <sfllaw> Will do.
[01:54] <fabbione> sfllaw: mdz will like to review it too
[01:55] <iwj> sfllaw, infinity: I think I've finished with updating Testing/Current now.  It has the new version numbers and I've generally changed uncommented PASS back to ? and added version number to other PASSes and FAILs.
[01:55] <infinity> sfllaw: You realise you can divine if you're on a serial console with "fgconsole", right?
[01:56] <infinity> sfllaw: See /etc/init.d/keymap.sh for the hint.
[01:56] <sfllaw> infinity: That would be stylish!  Thanks.
[01:58] <Keybuk> iwj: you appear to have nuked my edubuntu pass's entirely
[01:58] <ogra> Keybuk, wasnt that the plan ? 
[01:59] <ogra> to erase *all* pass entries ? 
[01:59] <Keybuk> ogra: iwj left some, for some reason
[01:59] <ogra> ohoel_, ok
[01:59] <infinity> sfllaw: That would make you grow a dependency on console-tools, but I suspect that's not a problem.
[01:59] <infinity> janimo: Okay, Xubuntu -dekstop- CDs finally done.
[02:00] <janimo> infinity: thanks
[02:00] <infinity> Everyone: All new images, except for the DVDs should be ready now.  Go forth and test.
[02:00] <sfllaw> infinity: I could just poke the right ioctls under Linux.  But that's a good pointer.
[02:00] <iwj> Keybuk: I left (a) DVD's and (b) server installs.
[02:00] <mdz> Keybuk: rsync isn't treating me very well either just now
[02:00] <iwj> mdz: Me too.
[02:01] <iwj> Are these livecd isos supposed to rsync well ?
[02:01] <mdz> 45 minutes to get edubuntu install rsynced
[02:01] <Keybuk> mdz: it seems our sysadmins decided today was a good time to break the cdimage servers
[02:01] <mdz> iwj: they are very rsync-friendly, yes
[02:01] <mdz> perhaps there's something going on with the server
[02:01] <iwj> It currently seems to think it's going to take 3 hours.
[02:01] <mdz> iwj: in fact they're friendlier than the install CD in this case
[02:01] <janimo> iwj: that's just the start of the CD
[02:02] <mdz> Keybuk: is that conjecture or are you in touch with them?
[02:02] <iwj> Keybuk: (a) new DVDs not out yet and (b) I'm told no new server CCs.
[02:02] <Keybuk> mdz: see #c
[02:02] <janimo> where it differs since last image
[02:02] <ogra> dapper-live-amd64.iso
[02:02] <ogra>    688642048 100%    2.00MB/s    0:05:28  (1, 100.0% of 1)
[02:02] <iwj> s/CC/CD/
[02:02] <mdz> Keybuk: NOOOOOO
[02:02] <ogra> strage, worked fine here for all isos
[02:02] <mdz> Keybuk: GRRRRRRR
[02:03] <janimo> so are these the RC images or candidates for RC?
[02:03] <infinity> janimo: The latter, but hopefully also the former.
[02:03] <ogra> yes
[02:03] <Keybuk> they're the RCCs
[02:03] <Keybuk> CRCs?
[02:03] <infinity> janimo: Kamion's pre-publishing them in hopes that they'll pass. :)
[02:03] <janimo> ah, ok. the pushing them to release.u.c what made me thing they're the RC
[02:04] <Kamion> they're only pushed to .pool
[02:04] <Kamion> not visible to general bystanders yet
[02:04] <Keybuk> iwj: you've changed others from PASS to <version>-PASS though/
[02:04] <iwj> IJLTS CRCDCDRRCDDC.  HTH.
[02:04] <Keybuk> but deleted other PASSs
[02:04] <Keybuk> but confusing
[02:05] <infinity> Kamion: Are we not publishing -server- on releases?
[02:05] <iwj> Keybuk: Only when there was a comment.  I didn't want to delete comments since I thought they might be important.
[02:05] <ogra> mdz, who made that edubuntu table on Testin/Current ? 
[02:05] <mdz> ogra: presumably sfllaw
[02:05] <iwj> See `information about older versions' under Howto.
[02:05] <iwj> ogra: It's possible that my attempts to remove stale passes have messed it up.
[02:06] <ogra> workstation is missing completely ... and i dont think we're intrested in OEM (i dont even know if we have that)
[02:06] <infinity> Kamion: Oh, it has its own .pool... I didn't notice that.
[02:06] <infinity> Kamion: Sketchy. :)
[02:06] <ogra> iwj, nope, its generally missing stuff
[02:06] <iwj> ogra: Talk to sfllaw but I think he'll say to edit it to be how you want.
[02:06] <infinity> Kamion: In that case, it just needs sparc pre-published as well.
[02:07] <iwj> Well, I think I'll go and have lunch while this image downloads.
[02:07] <mdz> ubuntu alternate i386 passed here
[02:07] <sfllaw> ogra: "edit it to be how you want"
[02:07] <Kamion> infinity: oh, I'll do server in a bit, sure
[02:08] <Kamion> infinity: I think it'll stop having its own .pool.
[02:08] <infinity> Kamion: yeah, I was just about to say... Since the image names are unique...
[02:08] <Kamion> right, it'll just start living with the Ubuntu images now
[02:08] <infinity> Kamion: And we want -desktop-, -alternate- and -server- all in one HTML index now, right?
[02:08] <mdz> kubuntu desktop i386 pass
[02:09] <mdz> infinity: yes
[02:09] <ogra> sfllaw, yep, thanks ... i wasnt even aware of that table since the edubuntu-testers team used https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
[02:09] <Kamion> infinity: yup, that'll happen automatically
[02:09] <infinity> Kamion: Spiff.
[02:09] <Kamion> publish-release is moderately cool like that.
[02:09] <sfllaw> ogra: Nobody told be about that one.
[02:09] <infinity> Okay, I'm going to go find some "lunch" before I get back to testing-land.
[02:09] <sfllaw> And I didn't bump into it.
[02:09] <Kamion> only moderately, mind. it *is* still a huge pile of shell.
[02:11] <Keybuk> NOBODY BREATHE!  I've got an rsync to 98%
[02:11] <Keybuk> and it appears to have stalled
[02:11] <ajmitch> Keybuk: I've had an rsync stuck at that for an hour or two :P
[02:11] <Keybuk> mdz: are you anywhere near Znarl? :)
[02:11] <ajmitch> I suspect rsync is meant to go at more than 2K/sec
[02:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> i was hoping to get a package (smbfs) made available on the ubuntu cd, but the SeedManagement wiki page doestn answer the qustion who/how to ask (that i saw)
[02:13] <Mithrandir> there's surely something weird here, yes.  I'm only getting ~200k/sec.
[02:13] <fabbione> yes it's all a known problem
[02:13] <fabbione> rsync is fucked. kthxbye
[02:14] <ogra> sfllaw, sorry my fault (i guesS)
[02:14] <Kamion> $ publish-release daily ../ubuntu-server/daily/20060524.2 server poolonly rc
[02:14] <Kamion> wonkiness. still, it worked
[02:14] <Keybuk> infinity: 
[02:14] <ogra> sfllaw, we also have no "desktop or alternate" CDs 
[02:14] <Keybuk> quest scott% telnet localhost 80
[02:14] <Keybuk> Escape character is '^] '.
[02:14] <Keybuk> GET /~scott/dapper-dvd-amd64.iso HTTP/1.1
[02:14] <Keybuk> Host: localhost
[02:14] <Keybuk> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
[02:14] <Keybuk> Accept-Ranges: bytes
[02:14] <Keybuk> Content-Length: 3172501504
[02:14] <Keybuk> Connection closed by foreign host.
[02:14] <Keybuk> (abbreviated, but you get the gist)
[02:14] <sfllaw> ogra: Good to know.  Thanks.
[02:15] <sfllaw> What is the syntax to close bugs from inside Ubuntu's debian/changelog?
[02:15] <Keybuk> sfllaw: there is no syntax
[02:15] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: nonexistent
[02:15] <ogra> sfllaw, we decided it would look a bit to funny to call the default CD we ship "alternate" :)
[02:15] <sfllaw> Ah.
[02:16] <sfllaw> ogra: Makes sense!
[02:16] <Kamion> I use "closes: Malone #nnnnn", I also see "LP#nnnnn", "closes: LP#nnnnn", "closes: launchpad.net/bugs/nnnnn", "Malone #nnnnn", and a bunch of others
[02:16] <mdz> Keybuk: no, or you might not be hearing from him right now
[02:16] <Keybuk> I use Ubuntu: #nnnn
[02:16] <Keybuk> mdz: that's kinda what I was hoping ... some ultra-violence
[02:17] <Keybuk> anyone know if there's a signal I can send rsync to say "save what you've done, and work if I run you again"?
[02:17] <Keybuk> cause if I ^C it now, it'll have to start all over again :'(
[02:18] <infinity> Keybuk: --partial
[02:18] <ogra> isnt that a commandline option you have to give *before* you run into this ? 
[02:18] <ogra> yeah
[02:18] <Keybuk> infinity: that's what I've used
[02:18] <infinity> Keybuk: Oh, a signal if you forgot --partial?  No idea.
[02:18] <Keybuk> so hopefully it'll resume from the 98% and just do the last 2%
[02:18] <Keybuk> once I've waited for the "GO AWAY"
[02:19] <zul> heylo
[02:20] <mdz> --partial screws you in one case, and saves you in another
[02:20] <infinity> Keybuk: As for the apache bug, I may know where that's happening... I'll poke it with a stick post-RC, and see if maybe we can squeeze a quick fix in.
[02:20] <mdz> you need to decide ahead of time which way you're more likely to be fucked
[02:20] <ogra> is there a reason why the names are in the tables already ? i somehow doubt seb128 will do all edubuntu i386 CD tests today
[02:20] <Keybuk> which case does --partial screw you for?
[02:20] <ogra> err amd64
[02:20] <infinity> --partial screws you when updating images.
[02:20] <mdz> where is seb128 anyway?
[02:20] <Keybuk> mdz: holiday
[02:20] <Keybuk> ogra: *shrug*  I was just going to do powerpc starting at the top
[02:20] <Keybuk> infinity: it does?
[02:20] <ogra> mdz, public holiday in france germany and i guess many other countries
[02:21] <infinity> If you get 50% into a --partial, then it dies, rsync copies the 350MB partial file over your 700MB original.
[02:21] <mdz> we really need a proper calendar
[02:21] <Keybuk> infinity: cute
[02:21] <ogra> mdz, i think there was a mail to warthogs 
[02:21] <Keybuk> whatever happened to the company hula server?
[02:21] <Keybuk> jdub: ?
[02:21] <ogra> we have a hula server ?
[02:21] <mdz> ogra: that was like a week ago
[02:22] <ogra> mdz, yes, but referring to ancestion day iirc
[02:22] <ogra> (which happens to be today)
[02:22] <Mithrandir> Ascension day.
[02:22] <ogra> yes, sorry
[02:23] <ogra> (german males tend to to drink all day and walk the streets until they fall dead on this day)
[02:23] <mdz> ogra: right, requiring that I keep it in my head for a week
[02:24] <ogra> yeah, we should probably have something like the fridge calendar 
[02:25] <ogra> in friendly ical format
[02:26] <Keybuk> ogra: aren't you supposed to be off today too?
[02:27] <ogra> Keybuk, did i ever care what i'm supposed to be ? 
[02:27] <Keybuk> fair point
[02:27] <ogra> its the most exciting time of the release, i wouldnt want to miss the fun :)
[02:28] <ogra> (even its exhausting :) )
[02:28] <Keybuk> o/~ See androids fighting ... Znarl and Elmo
[02:28] <TheMuso> c
[02:30] <Keybuk> WOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!RIO_QWIRO_QWOPEFIO_W$_R()")($
[02:30] <Keybuk> I HAVE A CD IMAGE!
[02:30] <sivang> heh
[02:32] <thom> anyone would think you've never seen one before
[02:33] <Keybuk> thom: today they are a rare thing
[02:33] <ogra> only the rsanced ones 
[02:34] <ogra> *rsynced
[02:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
[02:40] <ogra> edubuntu amd64 workstation PASS ...
[02:41] <Keybuk> ubuntu powerpc desktop PASS
[02:42] <Keybuk> hmm
[02:42] <Kinnison> ubuntu i386 desktop live PASS
[02:42] <Keybuk> why are OpenOffice.org Presentation and Spreadsheet the wrong way round?
[02:42] <Keybuk> ONLY JOKING
[02:42] <ogra> heh
[02:43] <vinboy> ?
[02:43] <zul> Keybuk: i think you would have people murdering you for some reason :)
[02:43] <_ion> :-)
[02:44] <vinboy> r u guys the testers?
[02:44] <Keybuk> that's a good point, next week I'm in the same room as mdz
[02:44] <ogra> vinboy, want to be one as well ? 
[02:44] <mdz> Keybuk: I checked that
[02:44] <zul> hah!
[02:44] <vinboy> ogra: nah, my connection is 256k
[02:45] <Keybuk> oh, wow
[02:45] <vinboy> too hard to be a tester :P
[02:45] <Keybuk> it didn't even *wait* before running cron.daily this time
[02:45] <mdz> fabbione: if you'd prefer to close #11850 and open a separate bug for this issue, feel free
[02:45] <mdz> fabbione: but there needs to be a bug open
[02:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> vinboy, sos mine
[02:46] <fabbione> mdz: leave that one.. i don't really care
[02:49] <mdz> Kamion: are the DVDs on cdimage current?
[02:50] <ogra> Keybuk, heh, utnubu wants to call their rpc-xml too for patch monitorint the "scottwatcher" :)
[02:50] <ogra> *tool
[02:51] <Keybuk> "voyeur"
[02:51] <ogra> *giggle*
[02:53] <mdz> Keybuk,Mithrandir: is someone working on fixing that?
[02:54] <Keybuk> Kamion: oh, I think I know what might have crashed qtpartman last time ... I deleted the partition map partition
[02:54] <Keybuk> mdz: it's in incoming
[02:54] <Kamion> mdz: Ubuntu is; Kubuntu is building
[02:54] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[02:55] <Keybuk> hey, jono, pull up an RC and start testing! :)
[02:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh, DDTT :)
[02:55] <Keybuk> well, an RCC
[02:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: and either qtparted or partman. make up your mind. :) FWIW I think it was qtparted not partman
[02:56] <Keybuk> Kamion: the traceback said both qtparted and partman
[02:56] <Keybuk> whatever you have on the Kubuntu CDs :)
[03:00] <jono> Keybuk: will do :)
[03:01] <vinboy> are the RC images available somewhere yet/
[03:02] <Riddell> 12:44 < Riddell> vinboy: no, that's why I'm asking for help testing
[03:02] <vinboy> ok
[03:02] <vinboy> thx
[03:03] <Keybuk> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/
[03:03] <Keybuk> pick the daily-live/current of your choice
[03:04] <vinboy> ok
[03:04] <vinboy> i prefer to use bittorent
[03:05] <vinboy> bcoz it has md5 hceck
[03:05] <vinboy> i had a corrupt download using HTTP last time
[03:05] <iwj> Ooh, the kubuntu test plan has been much improved.
[03:05] <Kamion> that's fine, there are torrents there, although they may not be very well seeded at present
[03:05] <iwj> Wikis are obviously just like USENET in this respect.
[03:13] <Keybuk> so, you know how Alt+F4 under d-i gives you the log of what it's doing?
[03:13] <Kamion> yes?
[03:14] <Keybuk> it doesn't do that on ubiquity
[03:14] <Keybuk> it doesn't do that AT ALL
[03:14] <Kamion> hahaha
[03:14] <mjg59> Oops
[03:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol 
[03:14] <Kamion> that had never occurred to me
[03:14] <iwj> Hrm, this disk from my junk pile doesn't seem to be wholly reliable.
[03:15] <dholbach> Keybuk: haha, did you know about "scottwatcher"? http://people.debian.org/~stratus/scottwatcher/ - I'd be terrified, if I were you :-)
[03:15] <Keybuk> it hadn't occurred to me either, it was taking a while in the Installing phase, so I just pressed it to watch the log go past for something more interesting to look at
[03:16] <Keybuk> the interesting thing is that it only appears to close the progress bar window, ubiquiuty carries on happily
[03:18] <iwj> Excellent, I accidentally ran the installer twice and the second copy exploded with a strange window full of unsubstituted strings plus a stack trace.
[03:18] <BenC> pretty sure that wasn't supposed to happen
[03:19] <BenC> I just did an update through update-manager, when I had a "needs reboot" notification already present, and the notification went away after the update
[03:19] <Keybuk> dholbach: this explains the sudden number of e-mails asking whether we can exclude packages from the nda output
[03:20] <BenC> nm, it popped up a minute later
[03:20] <dholbach> Keybuk: um, nda?
[03:20] <Keybuk> dholbach: the program that generates ~scott/patches/
[03:20] <dholbach> ah ok
[03:20] <sladen> Kamion: one of the disadvantages of dup'ing them that way around is that the lower numbered one has been fixed (several months) ago and closed.  Marking it a dup of a bug that has 'gdm' in the title effectively reopens it and against a package that isn't related.
[03:22] <nomed> hi all
[03:22] <nomed> janimo around ?
[03:22] <janimo> nomed: yes
[03:22] <janimo> hi
[03:22] <nomed> hi
[03:23] <janimo> I saw your mails and the xfce commits
[03:23] <nomed> i met kelnos this morning ...
[03:23] <nomed> he told me he was fine ..
[03:23] <nomed> "commits"
[03:23] <nomed> ?
[03:23] <janimo> he committed the OFFICE patch to libxfcegui4
[03:23] <janimo> what do you mean he was fine? fine with something?
[03:24] <nomed> ohh
[03:24] <nomed> true
[03:24] <janimo> and to xfdesktop4
[03:24] <nomed> hope for xfce4-mixer too
[03:24] <nomed> not for that ..
[03:25] <nomed> sent even  a patch to icon-naming upstreamer ..
[03:25] <nomed> and fixed tango-icon-theme-common
[03:25] <Keybuk> I can't decide whether it's a bug or not that ubiquity carrys on if you do Alt+F4
[03:26] <Keybuk> today, it's good :)
[03:26] <nomed> janimo, i guess now it's complete
[03:27] <janimo> nomed: I saw Daniel said he'd commit the tango patch
[03:27] <dholbach> janimo: which one?
[03:27] <nomed> yep
[03:27] <nomed> dholbach, icon naming
[03:27] <nomed> :)
[03:27] <nomed> i guess
[03:27] <dholbach> i uploaded it already
[03:27] <janimo> as for mixer it was not applied, xfce devs do not touch each others' packages
[03:27] <dholbach> but it's in the queue
[03:27] <janimo> so whenever mixer mainatiner has time I guess
[03:27] <nomed> dholbach, thanks for that
[03:27] <dholbach> de rien
[03:28] <nomed> janimo, you can add that patch in the mean time
[03:28] <janimo> nomed: sure
[03:28] <janimo> as I was not going to update mixer from svn anyway 
[03:28] <ogra> edubuntu amd64 default install manual partitioning PASS
[03:29] <nomed> janimo, as soon as i have the time i'll fix the gdm theme ..
[03:29] <nomed> if nobody did that
[03:30] <janimo> nomed, thanks. I saw there are 3 variants for teh icons, but they  look the same to me
[03:30] <ogra> fabbione, any idea why the cursor theme doesnt default to the jimmac theme anymore ? it was compiled in the X server since warty iirc
[03:30] <nomed> usplash will need the author
[03:30] <janimo> active, prelight and one I forgot
[03:30] <nomed> janimo, they are the same yes
[03:30] <nomed> they should be probably different
[03:30] <fabbione> ogra: no and X didn't change that 
[03:30] <janimo> so I think it's enough if I just copy the two icons in gdm
[03:30] <nomed> and the one for langs
[03:31] <janimo> nomed, ok take care of it then and let me know when they are ready for upload.
[03:31] <janimo> thanks
[03:31] <nomed> k
[03:31] <ogra> fabbione, yes, i had a very long discussion with daniels about it in hoary, it was set to be the xservers default 
[03:31] <ogra> seems we now only set it through the artwork package :(
[03:32] <iwj> I've just reproduced bug 46404 and I think it's RC.
[03:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46404 in qtparted "partitioner locked up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46404
[03:32] <iwj> Should I confirm it myself ?
[03:32] <nomed> janimo, do u know if it exists an svg version of the usplash image ?
[03:32] <iwj> I suppose it just might be my dodgy disk so perhaps I shouldn't.
[03:33] <nomed> or if the author is registered to the package in malone ?
[03:33] <janimo> nomed: I don;t think it makes sense for it to be a svg but I have no idea
[03:33] <nomed> i guess if not he should
[03:33] <Riddell> iwj: I'll look at it in a bit
[03:33] <iwj> Riddell: OK.  I just want to make sure it gets some attention; things like this at this stage are rather worrying ...
[03:35] <Keybuk> ubuntu powerpc install from desktop PASS
[03:35] <sladen> nomed: the images for the usplash-* have been hand-optimised.  If you want the shape, you can get that from the Ubuntu logo and try to do some gradients to replicate the usplash look, and you maybe able to do the 'glow' with some low-alpha copies behind the logo
[03:36] <nomed> sladen, i don't want to hack it :)
[03:36] <nomed> i just would that the author fox a small issue :)
[03:36] <nomed> s/fox/fixes
[03:37] <infinity> nomed: What needs fixing?
[03:37] <infinity> omeg: Around?
[03:37] <nomed> infinity, when i select a res of let's say 1024x768
[03:37] <mantiena> hi all
[03:37] <nomed> i see clearly two white lines
[03:37] <sladen> nomed: what's the issue.
[03:38] <iwj> Is anyone doing any a11y testing ?
[03:38] <nomed> it looks like it's 2 px smaller
[03:38] <sladen> nomed: where, can you take a picture.  somebody reported that being related to 640x480 which is used on some machines
[03:38] <iwj> For example, is ubiquity supposed to be driveable using only the keyboard ?  Because I can't seem to get `Next' to work (!)
[03:38] <infinity> nomed: This is on the Xubuntu splash?
[03:39] <infinity> nomed: Cause I was going to tweak it a bit anyway for janimo.  I can look at that at the same time.
[03:39] <iwj> Keybuk: please save Testing/Current ...
[03:39] <mantiena> where I should ask about rosetta problems ? my translations (.po files), uploaded yesterday, still not imported into rosetta and now other users are working on outdated translations :(
[03:39] <Keybuk> iwj: I don't have it open?
[03:40] <iwj> This page was opened for editing or last previewed at 2006-05-25 13:39:58 by ScottJamesRemnant.  You should refrain from editing this page for at least another 10 minute(s), to avoid editing conflicts.
[03:40] <Keybuk> *shrug* it lies
[03:40] <ogra> iwj, i even added my stuff since then
[03:40] <ogra> (and didnt get that warning)
[03:41] <iwj> Keybuk: Did you close your edit window without cancelling an edit ?  Or are you reloading the result of a save ?
[03:41] <iwj> Never reload the result of a wiki save.
[03:41] <Keybuk> neither
[03:41] <Keybuk> moin is hallucinating
[03:41] <iwj> Hrm.
[03:42] <iwj> Well, I'll edit my thing in and see if that helps.
[03:42] <nomed> infinity, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanieleFavara?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=xubuntu_usplash_issue.png
[03:42] <nomed> i think you can see that line i mean .. 
[03:42] <infinity> nomed: Oh, on the top and bottom?  Cool.
[03:43] <nomed> yep
[03:43] <infinity> That's in the original PNG.  Oops.  Easy fix.
[03:43] <infinity> nomed: I'll fix that when I fix the other thing I'm tweaking it for. :)
[03:44] <nomed> infinity, perfect thanks
[03:45] <ogra> edubuntu amd64 live session PASS
[03:45] <jsgotangco> yay
[03:46] <iwj> Apparently Kinnison saved it in between my edit start and end.
[03:46] <iwj> Kinnison: ^
[03:46] <Keybuk> iwj: it will now allow you to resolve any conflicts caused by that
[03:47] <Kinnison> iwj: oops, sorry
[03:47] <iwj> It's strange.  It says `do not just save this page' but having double-checked that's exactly what it seems I should do.
[03:47] <iwj> Kinnison: It might be moin being mad.  Did you get an edit lock warning ?
[03:47] <Kinnison> I got a warning for keybuk
[03:47] <iwj> You should have come here and cleared it with Keybuk then ...
[03:48] <iwj> I got a warning for Keybuk too and announced here that I was proceeding anyway.
[03:48] <iwj> Really ?
[03:48] <Keybuk> and treat it like CVS, resolve the conflicts if you cause any
[03:48] <ogra> meh, Kamion, the "partition selected more than once" bug is fixed over here, but the screensaver kicks in again in ubiquity during formatting
[03:49] <Kinnison> iwj: If I managed to blat your edit, I apologise. If you blat mine I know exactly what I did so I can recover
[03:49] <iwj> Keybuk: That's all very well unless you're trying to do something like my removal of stale passes.
[03:49] <ogra> i got a warning for iwj now
[03:49] <iwj> Kinnison: It's OK, neither edit is blatted.
[03:49] <iwj> ogra: Feh.  Just a mo.
[03:49] <iwj> ogra: ???  Mad thing, it's warning me about you now !
[03:49] <ogra> heh
[03:49] <ogra> saved
[03:50] <iwj> Seems sane again now.
[03:50] <iwj> Hey, maybe we should have a collaborative text editor.
[03:50] <LinuxJones> Yesterday's upgrade seems to have messed up some apps authenticating as root user ie. gksudo gedit <file> spews out authentication errors then hangs :(
[03:51] <iwj> Or maybe we should have a revision control system.  It would be nice if someone invented something like that, wouldn't it.
[03:51] <iwj> Or a database.
[03:53] <ogra> LinuxJones, gksudo gedit <file> ? that cant work ... you need gksudo "gedit <file>"
[03:55] <Keybuk> ogra: he uses them for bedding material
[03:55] <LinuxJones> ogra, even running stuff from root terminal won't run ie users-admin
[03:55] <iwj> su's stupid command line parsing continues to be copied :-(.
[03:55] <ogra> yep
[03:55] <ogra> LinuxJones, hmm, works fine here on todays liveCD
[03:55] <ogra> i just happen to have that running here
[03:59] <LinuxJones> ogra, I don't see my username in /etc/sudoers has the username (of the account that installed Ubuntu) or am I now required to add my username to the admin group ?
[03:59] <jdub> Keybuk: pong
[03:59] <Keybuk> jdub: I didn't ping, I just ordered ;)
[04:00] <jdub> Keybuk: oh, maybe i missed a line before the "jdub: ?"
[04:00] <Keybuk> jdub: company hula/calendar server
[04:00] <jdub> oof
[04:00] <jdub> hula totally isn't ready yet
[04:00] <jdub> but yeah, that'd be freaking rad
[04:00] <Keybuk> something !hula then
[04:00] <Keybuk> MS Exchange?
[04:01] <ogra> LinuxJones, yes, the admin group is used since hoary iirc
[04:01] <jdub> that's what i still have to recommend, unfortunately
[04:01] <Kamion> sladen: marking an open bug (that's apparently still active and causing a problem) as a duplicate of a closed bug on a different package that *has* been fixed is even worse. If you don't think they're related, then don't mark them as duplicates at all.
[04:01] <Keybuk> jdub: could you prod the appropriate people to work on it?
[04:01] <ogra> jdub, just an ical like the fridge has would already be rad
[04:02] <ogra> just to keep evo up to date with holidays and the like
[04:02] <ohoel_> oh right
[04:02] <_ohoel> ^^
[04:02] <Kamion> iwj: ubiquity is known to be a11y-weak, I'm afraid. Although I believe it is at least *possible* to drive the GTK frontend using only the keyboard, even if not entirely easy ...
[04:02] <jdub> Keybuk: "elmo, please set up an exchange server for us!" -> ah, no thanks :)
[04:02] <Kamion> ogra: yes, sorry, that screensaver bug is still open
[04:03] <Kamion> iwj: (so I'd consider it a bug if that weren't possible)
[04:05] <LinuxJones> ogra, ok thanks it's obviously been a while since I've had to look in there :)
[04:05] <mdz> sfllaw: are you tracking test results for the current candidate build?
[04:08] <sfllaw> mdz: If you mean, "am I looking at Testing/Current", then yes I've been keeping my eye on it.
[04:08] <LinuxJones> ogra, it's odd that certain ones will run like synaptic but others like users-admin won't.
[04:09] <_ohoel> Kamion: tabbing between fields in places like "tell us about yourself" is  a bit complicated
[04:09] <sfllaw> mdz: I've also been fixing RC bugs.  I've got two debdiffs for you to look at, in a couple of minutes.
[04:09] <Kamion> _ohoel: I fixed that ages ago
[04:09] <Kamion> _ohoel: what version are you using?
[04:09] <mdz> sfllaw: no, I meant "Testing/Current needs to be flushed because we have a new candidate"
[04:09] <_ohoel> right, beta2 I think 
[04:09] <iwj> Kamion: OK, I'll file a bug but not consider it RC.  Users who want to drive only with the keyboard are to use the d-i CD, then, I take it.
[04:09] <Keybuk> mdz: since when?
[04:09] <mdz> sfllaw: it still has results from 20060524, while we're now testing 20060525
[04:09] <Keybuk> iwj flushed it earlier
[04:10] <iwj> That's obviously not ideal because the d-i CD has many fewer a11y tools.
[04:10] <Kamion> _ohoel: if that's Kubuntu, this was fixed in ubiquity 0.99.67
[04:10] <infinity> mdz: iwj flushed it when we rolled new images.
[04:10] <ogra> heh
[04:10] <_ohoel> Kamion: I'll download an test a fresher image :)
[04:10] <iwj> mdz: I left those old results in, with image dates attached, when they had comments.
[04:10] <Kamion> iwj: if it's easy to fix, I still have one other RC bug in ubiquity, so I can squeeze minor KDE UI tweaks in
[04:10] <mdz> infinity: actually it looks like he prepended the build number to the old results
[04:10] <ogra> edubuntu amd64 ubiquity manual partitioning install PASS
[04:10] <Kamion> iwj: heno tells me that the GTK frontend is usable without the mouse
[04:10] <mdz> which makes it difficult to see the coverage
[04:10] <iwj> Kamion: Oh, good.
[04:10] <infinity> mdz: To some results, and others he removed.  Not sure what the logic there was. :)
[04:10] <iwj> Kamion: OK.  I'll report this bug.
[04:11] <iwj> Hrm, this install is busted.
[04:11] <iwj> Or maybe the disk is ?
[04:11] <infinity> mdz: Just wiping the ones with the old build number should do.
[04:11] <iwj> I think I need to be using a different disk.
[04:11] <mdz> where did dholbach go?
[04:11] <vinboy> how do i get involved in the development?
[04:11] <iwj> I removed the results with no comments.  I didn't want to remove the results with comments because I thought the comments might be important.
[04:11] <mdz> vinboy: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[04:11] <Keybuk> vinboy: right now, the best help we can get is to have testing of the CD images being produced
[04:11] <iwj> If they're not important then the old results can be removed.
[04:12] <iwj> I think though that keeping the old FAILs until the bug is believed fixed is probably sensible.
[04:12] <Kamion> 46398 is confirmed fixed; those fails can be removed
[04:12] <mdz> sfllaw,iwj: what we want is to find some reasonably convenient way to preserve the old results, but also see what's been tested with the current candidate at a glance
[04:12] <mdz> this may require something more sophisticated than a wiki page
[04:12] <infinity> More sophisticated than a wiki?  Is there such a thing?
[04:13] <infinity> Ahh, and the amd64 machine here just opened up.
[04:13] <sfllaw> iwj: Is there really a need to keep old PASSes?
[04:13] <sfllaw> Old FAILs are fine.
[04:14] <sfllaw> We can just leave bug numbers next to ?
[04:14] <sfllaw> heno: Ping?
[04:15] <heno> sfllaw: hi
[04:15] <sfllaw> heno: I missed your e-mail in my inbox until this morning.
[04:15] <sfllaw> Can you take over doko and jbailey's Testing/Current tasks?
[04:15] <mdz> sfllaw: it's useful to record a historical PASS vs. an "untested"
[04:15] <infinity> sfllaw: I'm doing doko's i386/alternate stuff right now, but more people doing so wouldn't hurt.
[04:16] <sfllaw> infinity: Thanks.
[04:16] <mdz> I test i386/alternate/erase as part of my regular testing
[04:16] <Keybuk> sfllaw: I'm doing anything powerpc/* from the top of the list down
[04:16] <heno> sfllaw: sorry, not really. I'm redoing the website ...
[04:16] <infinity> mdz: But you didn't record it.
[04:16] <sfllaw> heno: OK.
[04:17] <sfllaw> mdz,Keybuk: If you could record the fact that you've done so...
[04:17] <sfllaw> That would be brilliant!
[04:17] <Kamion> I've finally got a bit of time, so I'll see if I can do powerpc netboot now
[04:17] <Keybuk> sfllaw: I have been recording it
[04:17] <sfllaw> Keybuk: Ah.  I see that now.
[04:17] <mdz> sfllaw: I did
[04:18] <mdz> that page needs a meta refresh tag ;-)
[04:18] <jsgotangco> Edubuntu amd64 Install CD auto-resize PASS
[04:18] <Kamion> "copy files to local hard disk and make yaboot boot off that"
[04:18] <mdz> Riddell: do you have results from the current candidate yet?
[04:18] <Keybuk> powerpc alternate manual PASS
[04:19] <Riddell> mdz: alternative i386 and powerpc good, still rsyncing desktop CDs
[04:19] <Riddell> I'll update Testing/Current
[04:20] <mdz> Riddell: thanks
[04:20] <Keybuk> right, I'm gonna grab lunch while this (ppc alt erase) installs -- it'll take a while
[04:26] <bddebian> Heya folks
[04:29] <mgalvin> hi bddebian
[04:29] <bddebian> Hello mgalvin
[04:29] <iwj> We could have a list of the test results and a script to massage it into a table.
[04:30] <iwj> sfllaw: keep old passes> If they have interesting comments, then yes.  If we want to keep the comments then attaching them to a ? or to a subsequent test result might be wrong (it would depend on the comment).
[04:31] <sfllaw> mdz,fabbione: Sent patches to fix WvDial.
[04:31] <sfllaw> iwj: Maybe old passes and fails could be lowercased?
[04:32] <bddebian> Hi sfllaw
[04:32] <sfllaw> Then you can do a case-sensitive search for PASS and FAIL and get reasonable results?
[04:32] <sfllaw> bddebian: Hi.
[04:32] <bddebian> sfllaw: Where where those test pages again?
[04:32] <iwj> sfllaw: That's a good idea.
[04:32] <sfllaw> Testing/Current
[04:32] <sfllaw> iwj: Shall I do the honours?
[04:32] <iwj> Yes.
[04:35] <mdz> Kamion: I can't get i386 alternate to offer me automatic resize
[04:35] <Kamion> mdz: /var/log/syslog should say why not
[04:35] <Kamion> log message from partman-auto
[04:35] <Kamion> oh maybe it's in /var/log/partman, can't remember
[04:36] <Riddell> mvo: you had amd64 kubuntu netinstall working last night didn't you?
[04:36] <mvo> Riddell: yes, I added it to the wiki last night
[04:36] <Kamion> mdz:yeah, /var/log/partman - first log message should be "<something> primary partitions, <something> logical partitions"
[04:37] <mdz> Kamion: ok, I'm there, but I don't know how to interpret the rest
[04:37] <mdz> at the start, I had the default erase-disk layout (root primary, swap logical)
[04:38] <mdz> when it didn't offer the option, I used manual partitioning to create a single primary on the entire disk
[04:38] <mdz> as the simplest case for resizing
[04:38] <mdz> then went back to guided partitioning
[04:39] <Kamion> mdz: can you paste me a chunk of the log from there down in /msg
[04:39] <Kamion> ?
[04:39] <mdz> should be able to
[04:44] <Kamion> it requires at least 3GB free or it won't bother offering it
[04:44] <Kamion> on the heuristic basis that if it's less than that, you'll be making both the existing and the new filesystems unreasonably tight on space
[04:44] <Kamion> (conclusion from /msg)
[04:45] <Kamion> oh, damn, my running netboot install is going to set up an LTSP chroot, since that bug fix isn't in yet
[04:45] <Kamion> oh well
[04:46] <sladen> Kamion: instances of that bug are going to continue to arise for as long as there are people in the wild who installed their current setup with an early Flight CD.  I can keep the instances separate if you would like, even if they are of the same class and cut and paste the same description and solution into each of them.
[04:47] <Kamion> sladen: I made my comment before I saw your followup to the newer bug which synced up its status with the older one
[04:47] <Kamion> sladen: I hadn't realised you were going to do that; it looked separate, and I'd expected you to do that *before* marking it as a duplicate ...
[04:47] <Kamion> so reverting my duplication change is fine, sorry about that
[04:48] <Kamion> what I normally do is add an explanation to the bug and only then mark it as a duplicate; it saves on confusion
[04:50] <sladen> Kamion: groovy, I'll remember to do that in that order next time :)
[04:51] <sladen> launchpad could do with a 'Related' relationship aswell as a Duplicate
[04:51] <Kamion> yeah
[04:51] <mdz> sfllaw: what's the reasoning behind http://people.ubuntu.com/~sfllaw/wvstreams.debdiff ?
[04:53] <mdz> sfllaw: likewise for wvdial.diff; it's fairly opaque to me without knowing the code
[04:56] <sfllaw> mdz: The wvstreams patch prevents wvdialconf from blocking on close(), which happens inside WvFile::close().
[04:56] <sfllaw> That tcsetattr puts something in the output buffer.
[04:56] <sfllaw> At least, for some IRDA drivers.
[04:58] <sfllaw> The wvdial patch has the line cfg.commit() and some cleanup code, which causes WvDial to actually write out the config file.
[04:58] <sfllaw> This patch is actually inside Debian, and was fixed ages ago, but never sucked into Ubuntu.
[04:59] <sfllaw> I think that was because of the UVF.
[04:59] <sfllaw> I cherry-picked it just for this release.
[04:59] <infinity> Mithrandir: Around?
[05:00] <mdz> sfllaw: it also changes get to xget and set to xset; what does that do?
[05:01] <sfllaw> That's proper style within WvStreams programs now.  The old WvConfEmu interface is a bit broken, which is why the file didn't get written properly.
[05:01] <mdz> it seems to be using a slightly differentAPI
[05:01] <sfllaw> I can generate a patch with fewer changed lines, if you'd like.
[05:01] <mdz> sfllaw: and you're comfortable with all of this as a days-before-final sort of update?
[05:02] <sfllaw> It can't make WvDial any worse.
[05:02] <mdz> ok
[05:02] <mdz> sfllaw: please go ahead
[05:02] <sfllaw> Thanks.
[05:02] <sfllaw> fabbione: Ping?
[05:13] <vinboy> does downloading the iso using jigdo prevent corrupted download?
[05:13] <Mithrandir> infinity: hi
[05:15] <bddebian> Heya Mithrandir
[05:15] <Mithrandir> hiya bddebian 
[05:15] <infinity> Mithrandir: Can you test the mad64/desktop CD and confirm that I'm not going insane?
[05:15] <mdz> sfllaw: dholbach is off; we need someone else totest amd64/alt
[05:16] <mdz> unfortunately the amd64 laptop I used here in the office for  beta has been "repurposed"
[05:16] <infinity> Mithrandir: When I hit "Adding LiveCD user", it locks up.  Booting with "splash" off, I see an infinite loop of OOPSes... Well, I think they're OOPSes... It's scrolling awfully fast to know for sure.
[05:16] <Mithrandir> infinity: C-s should pause it
[05:16] <Mithrandir> infinity: I can check.
[05:18] <Mithrandir> infinity: except cdimage currently hates me.
[05:20] <infinity> Yeah, squashfs explodey.  I wonder if it got corrupted somewhere in the build process (the CD itself checks out fine)
[05:21] <Kamion> I'll start on amd64/alternate in a moment
[05:21] <mdz> Riddell: I got no splash-down with my kubuntu alt install
[05:21] <mdz> Riddell: not until the last bit where it gets restarted
[05:21] <mdz> Riddell: is that normal?
[05:21] <Keybuk> mdz: splashdown seems temperamental on kubuntu
[05:21] <Kamion> just need to shovel bits over to that box
[05:21] <Keybuk> I've had it about 6/10 times
[05:22] <Riddell> mdz: it's not normal but it does happen not infrequently, I'm yet to spot the pattern
[05:22] <Keybuk> including getting splashdown when I shouldn't have ;)
[05:22] <Riddell> gdm has a nice "I'm about to change to vt1" function but kdm doesn't have that
[05:22] <mdz> Riddell: probably has to do with vt switching
[05:22] <Keybuk> Riddell: I thiiiiink it might be a race between X switching vts, and usplash getting started by kdm stopping
[05:23] <OculusAquilae> carlos: ktorrent is translated now, thanks 
[05:23] <iwj> Yay, I managed to finish a test.  PASS despite the bugs I found ...
[05:23] <carlos> OculusAquilae: your are welcome
[05:24] <infinity> Mithrandir: Crap.  The md5sum of the squashfs on my CD matches the md5sum of the original on king.  And the build log looks like everything was A-OK... But it just does not work for me, at all.
[05:24] <Keybuk> infinity: which is that?
[05:24] <infinity> Keybuk: amd64/desktop ... No workey here.
[05:25] <Keybuk> ok, I'll give that one a test in a minute
[05:25] <Keybuk> just about to finish the ubuntu powerpc tests, then I can move my workstation to the laptop and test on this
[05:25] <infinity> Keybuk: Explodes in a mess of OOPSes around "Adding LiveCD user"
[05:26] <infinity> If it's just me, I can cope, but since the last build worked fine over here, I'm thinking something when Very Wrong.
[05:26] <infinity> s/when/went/
[05:26] <vinboy> Keybuk: r u getting paid to do this?
[05:31] <Kamion> Ubuntu powerpc netboot PASS
[05:31] <bddebian> w00t
[05:32] <Keybuk> this has taken a while "Cleaning up" ... it must be doing my kitchen
[05:32] <mdke> janimo: nice work on the xubuntu-docs translations
[05:33] <Keybuk> release week and housework are not friends
[05:33] <janimo> mdke, I just uploaded them :)
[05:33] <bddebian> Keybuk: :-)
[05:37] <Keybuk> ubuntu powerpc alternate erase PASS
[05:41] <bddebian> Sheesh, you'd think a T-1 would download a little damn faster :-(
[05:42] <Keybuk> ok, let's test this amd64 desktop
[05:43] <_ion> The last comment in bug #40607  ideas, anyone?
[05:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40607 in tango-icon-theme-common "Ok/Cancel buttons" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40607
[05:44] <_ion> I wish the gtkrc syntax allowed something like CSS selectors.
[05:44] <Keybuk> _ion: it does?
[05:46] <Mithrandir> infinity: reproduced.
[05:46] <Mithrandir> debconf-communicate makes unionfs oops
[05:46] <infinity> Mithrandir: Feh.
[05:46] <Kamion> Urgh.
[05:46] <infinity> Mithrandir: Okay, a new livefs is spinning right now, to see if a new build will just make it go away.,
[05:47] <Kamion> When was the last successful amd64 desktop test?
[05:47] <infinity> Kamion: Yesterday's images were fine.
[05:47] <Kamion> Please tell me it wasn't before the last kernel change.
[05:47] <Kamion> OK, so it may be cosmic rays ...
[05:47] <sfllaw> mdz: Is dholbach gone for a long while?
[05:47] <infinity> Kamion: Just blew up on today's build.
[05:47] <sfllaw> Or just sleeping?
[05:47] <dholbach> sfllaw: I'm here.
[05:47] <sfllaw> dholbach: You can't test amd64?  :(
[05:48] <Kamion> sfllaw: I'll test amd64/alternate just as soon as the machine in question has finished apt-get upgrading.
[05:48] <infinity> Kamion: I'm hoping for cosmic rays, hence why I kicked off the new livefs a while back. :)
[05:48] <Kamion> infinity: I'm ready to start a CD image build for just amd64 when you give the word
[05:48] <sfllaw> Kamion: Thanks.
[05:48] <mdz> how is everyone doing on their test cases?
[05:48] <mdz> sfllaw: I think he's ascending
[05:48] <Kamion> Is amd64/desktop working for Kubuntu?
[05:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: about to test that one too
[05:49] <Keybuk> I rsync'd that one as well, just in case
[05:49] <infinity> Keybuk: Please do so ASAP, to see if we have this same bug there.  Though I can't imagine why we would.
[05:49] <mdz> Kamion: what's up with amd64?  I haven't been able to test it
[05:49] <Keybuk> btw
[05:49] <Keybuk> I concur
[05:49] <Kamion> mdz: alternate or desktop?
[05:49] <Keybuk> amd64 OOPS for me too
[05:49] <infinity> mdz: unionfs explodes early in casper.
[05:50] <infinity> mdz: Yesterday's images were fine, so I'm assuming cosmic rays and rebuilding the livefs.
[05:50] <mdz> eek
[05:50] <mdz> Kamion: either
[05:50] <Kamion> mdz: 16:48 < Kamion> sfllaw: I'll test amd64/alternate just as soon as the machine in question has finished apt-get upgrading.
[05:50] <_ion> keybuk: Attribute selectors, to be accurate.
[05:50] <mdz> ok, so desktop is b0rked and alternate is untested?
[05:50] <Kamion> just rebooting into it now
[05:51] <mdz> I have a kubuntu dvd i386 ubiquity in progress
[05:51] <mdz> and an i386 alternate OEM
[05:51] <Keybuk> shall I test amd64 DVD too?
[05:51] <mdz> mjg59: you need to bail out of that thread on sounder; it's hopeless
[05:51] <infinity> Keybuk: If you've got the bandwidth.
[05:52] <Keybuk> infinity: it's one of the ones I keep in my cache
[05:52] <Keybuk> I assume it's "up to date" on beryllium?
[05:52] <_ion> In pseudo-CSS, i'd need GtkButton[relief=NONE]  { GtkWidget::focus-padding: 0; xthickness: 0; ythickness: 0; } in gtkrc in order to fix the problem pointed out in the message.
[05:52] <infinity> Keybuk: Should be.
[05:54] <Kamion> mdz: FYI I have a dinner invitation with my cousin tonight, so I have about two more hours
[05:54] <Keybuk> hmm, beryllium is unhappy -- won't rsync a DVD
[05:55] <elmo> it's still trying to sync
[05:55] <Keybuk> elmo: PUT MORE CHILDREN ON THE FIRES
[05:55] <mdz> Kamion: acknowledged
[05:55] <mdz> repo man has all night, every night
[05:55] <elmo> it should work, it'll just be slow till the write-fest is over
[05:56] <infinity> Kamion: We'll resolve this before then, or I'll slit my wrists.
[05:56] <Keybuk> elmo: it wasn't sending any data
[05:56] <Kamion> let's resolve it then ... wouldn't want blood on the channel
[05:56] <mdz> infinity: it'll take that long to do a test
[05:56] <infinity> mdz: I can whip through the amd64 tests pretty quickly.
[05:56] <infinity> mdz: I had lots of practice last night when filing ubiquity bugs from that machine. :)
[05:57] <mdz> infinity: livefs build + cd build + publish + rsync
[05:57] <mdz> THEN you can try a test ;-)
[05:57] <infinity> mdz: livefs build is about 2 minutes from done.
[05:57] <Kamion> CD build for one architecture is like five minutes
[05:58] <elmo> Keybuk: it's using a scheduler that massively favours writes, so all our boxes essentially stall during the sync, an beryllium has/had a hundred Gb or something to sync
[05:58] <mdz> I'm giving up on this edubuntu DVD rsync
[05:58] <mdz> ogra: do you have one?
[05:58] <elmo> it's at xubuntu/ now tho, should be done soon
[05:58] <elmo> tho, I'm having to try hard to resist adding --exclude='.*-src-.*' to the sync script at this stage :-P
[05:58] <thom> elmo: s/write/read itym?
[05:58] <mdz> grumblegrumble
[05:58] <infinity> Kamion: livefs build done, hit the switch.
[05:59] <Kamion> infinity: switch hit
[05:59] <Keybuk> new amd64 live to test?
[05:59] <elmo> thom: no, writes - deadline massively penalizes reads in favour of writes
[05:59] <infinity> Keybuk: Shortly.
[05:59] <thom> uh, oh yeah, heh
[06:00] <Keybuk> infinity: was about to say, rsync claimed no diff ;)
[06:00] <infinity> Keybuk: Assuming it boots, do you want to do the full live session test (wander through, check apps work, etc), and I'll do the two installation tests?
[06:00] <Keybuk> infinity: yup
[06:00] <infinity> Or three, whatever.
[06:00] <Keybuk> it'll save me having to swap hard drives around
[06:00] <infinity> Here's hoping it boots, then. :)
[06:01] <mdz> infinity: do we need to wait for this massive sync to complete before we can publish that amd64 image?
[06:01] <Keybuk> I never like opening quest, it growls at me
[06:01] <Kamion> cjwatson@lithium:~$ md5sum cdimage/scratch/ubuntu/daily-live/live/amd64.squashfs
[06:01] <mdz> I suppose rsyncing directly from lithium would be more expedient
[06:01] <Kamion> 5f56a659d2fdf9832baef5ecc109684f  cdimage/scratch/ubuntu/daily-live/live/amd64.squashfs
[06:01] <Kamion> infinity: is that the right md5sum?
[06:02] <Kamion> I'd just grab it from lithium if I were infinity ... though IIRC Keybuk cannot
[06:02] <Keybuk> I cannot
[06:02] <Keybuk> I am insufficiently powahful
[06:02] <infinity> Kamion: md5sum matches, yes.
[06:02] <elmo> I'm happy to temporarily setup passworded rsync on lithium, if you want
[06:02] <Kamion> built, it's trying to trigger beryllium at the moment and not getting very far
[06:02] <infinity> Kamion: But it did on the broken one too, so I'm not holding my breath.
[06:02] <Kamion> infinity: just checking it's not out of date or anything
[06:03] <Keybuk> elmo: bah, give me an account on lithium, you _know_ you want to :)
[06:03] <infinity> I'm syncing fine from a mirror anyway.  Obviously didn't get beryllium.
[06:03] <elmo> beryllium isn't in rotation till it's uptodate
[06:04] <Kamion> (BTW, the build took under 3 minutes)
[06:04] <elmo> and I've had a chance to setup a working httpd on it
[06:04] <elmo> Keybuk: I'd rather people didn't add ssh overhead as well as rsync to lithium, tbh
[06:04] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, my OEM install seems to have crashed and burned.  it boots up to gdm.
[06:04] <Kamion> I've just killed the beryllium trigger
[06:04] <Keybuk> it appears to have turned up on one of the cdimages
[06:04] <elmo> Kamion: why?
[06:05] <Kamion> elmo: because I wanted that shell back? :P
[06:05] <elmo> mmk
[06:05] <Kamion> let me know when it's synced and I'll trigger again
[06:05] <infinity> Synced, MD5 matches, burning.
[06:05] <Kamion> mdz: crashed and burned how?
[06:06] <mdz> Kamion: after d-i finished and rebooted, it came up straight into gdm.  aren't I supposed to get the firstboot stuff instead?
[06:06] <Kamion> mdz: no, you'll have got a message just before reboot that you need to run oem-config-prepare when you're finished customising the system
[06:07] <mdz> I read the title of the dialog...
[06:07] <Kamion> feedback I got indicated that people didn't really like the "one reboot, then we throw you into oem-config, kthxbye" business in breezy
[06:07] <Kamion> though I concede something more in-your-face at gdm time might help
[06:07] <Kamion> mdz: log in as oem with the password you set
[06:07] <Kamion> sudo oem-config-prepare
[06:07] <Kamion> then reboot
[06:08] <infinity> A custom GDM them with "OEM FIRST BOOT" plastered all over it might be helpful.
[06:08] <Kamion> yeah
[06:08] <Keybuk> hmm, rsync appears to be in fucking stupid mode -- it's just downloading from scratch fwict
[06:08] <mdz> infinity: what have I told you about that sort of thing within earshot of mark
[06:09] <infinity> mdz: Blindfold him.
[06:10] <elmo> is FIRST BOOT our version of FIRST POST?
[06:10] <mdz> Kamion: ok, so I ran oem-config prepare and rebooted, and I still didn't get the questions
[06:10] <mdz> and the oem login still works
[06:11] <iwj> Ugh, this breezy CD seems to have been covered in some strange kind of gunge !
[06:12] <Keybuk> infinity: you kinda broke /current/ with your little rebuild :p
[06:12] <infinity> I did no such thing.
[06:12] <Keybuk> infinity: check MD5SUMS
[06:13] <mdz> iwj: unreproducible here, my breezy CDs are fine
[06:13] <iwj> :-P
[06:13] <Keybuk> does anyone else REALLY not want to know what the gunge is?
[06:13] <Kamion> mdz: literally 'oem-config prepare'?
[06:13] <mdz> Kamion: sudo oem-config prepare
[06:13] <Kamion> mdz: 'sudo oem-config-prepare'
[06:13] <mdz> aha
[06:14] <mdz> i reed gud
[06:14] <Kamion> I should make oem-config be fascist about arguments to catch that
[06:14] <Keybuk> or just dtrt
[06:15] <infinity> Keybuk: Oh, special.
[06:15] <Keybuk> the number of times I wish apt-get would just exec apt-cache when that's what I really meant
[06:15] <infinity> Kamion: The single arch build didn't carry over the MD5SUMS from the old arches.
[06:15] <mdz> Keybuk: in edgy I'm going to merge them and call the result 'apt'
[06:15] <infinity> Kamion: "oops"
[06:15] <Kamion> I've no idea why oem-config didn't pop up when you ran that, mind
[06:15] <Keybuk> mdz: call it "smarter"
[06:15] <dholbach> haha
[06:16] <mdz> Kamion: it did, but I didn't think about what it was doing
[06:16] <Kamion> infinity: stupid thing. fixing
[06:16] <Keybuk> elmo: rsync has stalled again.  I'm upset
[06:16] <mdz> Kamion: it asked me the first couple of questions and then exited apparently successfully
[06:16] <mdz> didn't ask me the user info
[06:17] <mdz> weird, I get a different wastebasket icon
[06:17] <elmo> Keybuk: use lithium
[06:17] <mdz> the old blue one
[06:17] <Keybuk> elmo: ha ha
[06:17] <Kamion> infinity: fixed, thanks
[06:17] <Kamion> mdz: I have a suspicion it got very confused by you running it as oem
[06:18] <Kamion> oem-config is wonky in dapper and needs a good kicking early edgy
[06:18] <infinity> Bucket.  Of.  Cocks.
[06:18] <Keybuk> is there a difference between early edgy and late edgy
[06:19] <infinity> Same failure.
[06:19] <Keybuk> infinity: failing for you too, huh?
[06:19] <mdz> the other icons are all correct, it's very curious
[06:19] <infinity> This is double-plus ungood.
[06:19] <infinity> Kamion: What's the size limit on an ISO to reliably not die?
[06:19] <Kamion> so. RC -= amd64/desktop?
[06:20] <infinity> Kamion: Maybe we went a smidge over with the new OOo-amd64...
[06:20] <mdz> Kamion: or we publish the previous build
[06:20] <infinity> Kamion: Humour me.  Kick something out of ship-live for a second, and retry a smaller build.
[06:20] <Kamion> infinity: it's supposed to be 736051200
[06:20] <mdz> infinity: rm -rf some stuff and re-mkisofs
[06:20] <Kamion> it's WAY under that
[06:20] <infinity> Point.  It is way under.
[06:21] <infinity> I'm going to re-make it anyway.
[06:21] <Kamion> locally?
[06:21] <mdz> infinity: where does it fail? can it even do a media check?
[06:21] <infinity> Yeah, I'm doing it locally.
[06:21] <infinity> mdz: Media check worked on the last image.  Trying this one now.
[06:22] <Kamion> you have the mkisofs rune?
[06:22] <infinity> I can't imagine what could have broken, though, since the only two things that changed were OOo and ubiquity...
[06:22] <infinity> Kamion: paste it, SVP... I forget where it lives on lithium.
[06:22] <mdz> infinity: that's worth confirming
[06:22] <Kamion> mkisofs -r -V 'Ubuntu 6.06 amd64 Bin-1' -o dapper-desktop-amd64-hacked.iso -cache-inodes -J -l -b isolinux/isolinux.bin -c isolinux/boot.cat -no-emul-boot -boot-load-ize 4 -boot-info-table build-tree
[06:23] <Kamion> of course that's without the sorting stuff ...
[06:23] <mdz> infinity: what's the version of the one which worked?
[06:23] <Kamion> er, s/-boot-load-ize/-boot-load-size/
[06:23] <Keybuk> mdz: 23
[06:23] <Keybuk> allegedly
[06:23] <infinity> mdz: 20060524 works.  20060525 and 25.1 are broken.
[06:24] <mdz> live-ship is the only difference in the iso file list
[06:24] <mdz> bunch of changes in the livefs though
[06:24] <mdz> oh, I'll diff 24 instead then
[06:24] <Keybuk> sorry, my bad
[06:24] <mdz> only desktop stuff
[06:24] <mdz> nothing that's even touched before gdm starts
[06:25] <Burgwork> somebody was looking for me?
[06:25] <Keybuk> why do we only find squashfs/unionfs bugs _NOW_
[06:25] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/amd64.diff
[06:25] <infinity> Keybuk: We've been living with the fragile union all release.  It just mostly works, so we've ignored the fragility. :/
[06:26] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: since the -artwork update yesterday the icon nautilus places on the desktop for a mounted cd is huge, known?
[06:26] <mdz> infinity: flush the livefs and rebuild it from scratch, I say
[06:26] <mdz> that should reshuffle the deck enough to get it working again :-P
[06:26] <infinity> mdz: We do build from scratch.
[06:26] <mdz> oh
[06:26] <Keybuk> I like the fact the OOPS has junk all over it
[06:26] <mdz> well, hell
[06:26] <infinity> mdz: The rsync trick is long gone.
[06:26] <Keybuk> hmm
[06:26] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: yes, it was reported at least 15 times to me and it's fixed, but the package is held in the queue until RC is out
[06:26] <Keybuk> "attempt to access beyond end of device"
[06:26] <infinity> And, the integrity check passed. :/
[06:26] <infinity> Keybuk: Ah-ha.
[06:26] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: sorry. :)
[06:26] <dholbach> :-)
[06:26] <Keybuk> want=<some number>, limit=<some lower number>
[06:26] <Kamion> initramfs overflow?
[06:26] <Keybuk> limit=1232960
[06:27] <Kamion> what are the units for that limit?
[06:27] <mdz> Keybuk: what are the numbers?
[06:27] <Keybuk> mdz: I'll do that again
[06:27] <Keybuk> I un-locked the scroll
[06:27] <mdz> infinity: squashfs sorts the files then?
[06:27] <elmo> rsync: send_files failed to open "/daily-live/.swp" (in cdimage): Permission denied (13)
[06:27] <mdz> haha
[06:27] <infinity> mdz: Yes.
[06:27] <Kamion> elmo: that was me, gone now
[06:28] <Keybuk> mdz: I can't seem to get the first set of numbers
[06:28] <Keybuk> attempt to access beyond end of device
[06:28] <infinity> mdz: mksquashfs is more or less a black box.  We just aim it at the chroot and ship.  None of the crazy stuff we had to do with ext3-on-cloop.
[06:28] <Kamion> also, I just found that publish-daily has been screwing over MD5SUMS.gpg files in previous builds of the same type every time it runs
[06:28] <Keybuk> loop0: rw=0, want=2016046, limit=1232960
[06:28] <Keybuk> thru
[06:28] <Kamion> (fixed)
[06:28] <Keybuk> loop0: rw=0, want=2016188, limit=1232960
[06:28] <Keybuk> *crash*
[06:28] <Kamion> but I wonder how many people actually check the signatures ...
[06:29] <Keybuk> limit could be bytes, or 512b (621,375,520)
[06:30] <mdz> Keybuk: break it in initramfs and check out loop0 a bit
[06:30] <infinity> What's mounted on loop0?  The squashfs?
[06:30] <iwj> Kamion: You might not have seen, but that bug in the kubuntu install where the partitioner locks up is reproduceable.  All you have to to is try to back out of the partitioner with the back button.
[06:30] <mdz> infinity: should be, yes
[06:30] <Keybuk> mdz: that's exactly what I'm doing
[06:30] <elmo> whee, beryllium is up-to-date
[06:30] <elmo> (rsync only)
[06:30] <Kamion> iwj: yeah, I saw, it's a qtparted thing, needs Riddell
[06:30] <ogra> mdz, nope, not yet
[06:30] <iwj> Kamion: Right.  I just want to make sure you know about it :-).
[06:30] <mdz> elmo: woo
[06:30] <Kamion> when you hit back there, ubiquity says "undo" to qtparted which then is supposed to not hang :-)
[06:30] <mdz> ogra: mine is getting 1M/sec now
[06:31] <mdz> Kamion: please add that to DRR
[06:31] <ogra> mdz, lets just skip edubuntu DVDs for RC, i'll test during this week 
[06:32] <ogra> (i dont think anybody beside me will test them anyway in the community)
[06:32] <Kamion> mdz: will do
[06:32] <mdz> ogra: I'll have one in 10m; I'll test it
[06:32] <ogra> ok
[06:32] <mdz> i386 anyway
[06:32] <mdz> I can't test anything else
[06:32] <mdz> elmo: do you know where the power supply for this powerbook of yours went?
[06:32] <ogra> thats enough, i''ll test amd64 during the week (go no dvd reader in my ibook)
[06:32] <ogra> *got
[06:32] <elmo> mdz: no?
[06:32] <mdz> elmo: I didn't take it
[06:33] <elmo> well, it was there when I left, hmm
[06:33] <mdz> elmo: where's there?
[06:34] <elmo> the office
[06:34] <elmo> I basically hadn't touched the powerbook (or it's adaptor) since my aborted attempts to hacksaw it open
[06:35] <Keybuk> ok
[06:35] <ogra> Riddell, are you currently editing Testing/current ? 
[06:35] <ogra> (i get a warning)
[06:35] <bddebian> Hacksaw to a PowerBook?  haha
[06:35] <Keybuk> that limit=1232960 must be in 512 byte sectors
[06:35] <Riddell> ogra: no, go ahead
[06:35] <ogra> thanks
[06:35] <infinity> Kamion / Keybuk / mdz : Okay, shrinking the ISO didn't help one bit, so it's likely the squashfs itself.
[06:35] <Keybuk> 1,232,960 * 512 = 621,375,520
[06:35] <Keybuk> which happens to be the exact size of the squashfs
[06:36] <infinity> Keybuk: And something's trying to read past the end of it?  ROCK.
[06:36] <Keybuk> right
[06:36] <infinity> Kernel bug, or mksquashfs bug, I wonder?
[06:37] <Keybuk> /dev/loop0 is the squashfs
[06:38] <infinity> And how big does the kernel claim /dev/loop0 is?
[06:38] <Keybuk> infinity: what rune do I need for that?
[06:38] <infinity> cat /proc/partitions
[06:38] <Keybuk> ah yes, it occurred to me at the same time
[06:38] <Keybuk> 616480
[06:38] <infinity> Okay, so that doesn't seem insanely wrong.
[06:39] <infinity> Cause your error above looked like it was trying to read at least 2x the real size.
[06:39] <Keybuk> indeed
[06:39] <Keybuk> * 1,024 is the same value
[06:40] <infinity> I wonder if we have some 512 versus 1024 k block confusion.
[06:40] <infinity> But that would have bit us ages ago...
[06:40] <Keybuk> yeah, that would surprise
[06:40] <bddebian> Finally, CD finished
[06:40] <mdz> infinity: are you able to loop-mount the squashfs and verify it?
[06:41] <bddebian> ?
[06:41] <infinity> mdz: I can loop it.  Not sure what to verify.
[06:41] <mdz> infinity: thinking of it, it'd have to be a squashfs bug, since unionfs asks for files and not blocks
[06:41] <Keybuk> IF ONLY SOMEBODY PUT FIND IN THE INITRAMFS
[06:41] <infinity> mdz: (ie: I have no md5sum manifest of the contents or anything)
[06:41] <mdz> infinity: md5sum -c /wherever/the/md5sum/file/is
[06:41] <Keybuk> IF ONLY SOMEBODY PUT MD5SUM IN THE INITRAMFS
[06:41] <Keybuk> etc.
[06:41] <mdz> infinity: we don't generate one of those?
[06:42] <mdz> hmm
[06:42] <mdz> infinity: you could debsums it
[06:42] <infinity> No, that would take eons.
[06:42] <Keybuk> oh, cute, there's a bad sector on this cd all of a sudden
[06:42] <infinity> I can debsums for the packages that have sums, yes.
[06:42] <infinity> Which should be most of them.
[06:42] <Kamion> find -type f | xargs cat >/dev/null
[06:42] <Kamion> at least see if you can read all the files
[06:42] <Kamion> use find and xargs from the squashfs if they wor
[06:42] <Kamion> k
[06:43] <Keybuk> Kamion: thank the gods we didn't go insane and only use klibc in the initramfs
[06:44] <Kamion> Keybuk: LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[06:44] <Keybuk> Kamion: no, I mean seriously, thank god we didn't do that
[06:44] <Kamion> heh :)
[06:44] <infinity> I'm getting a lot of "No such file.."
[06:44] <Kamion> damn, I keep forgetting to watch splash-down
[06:44] <infinity> This can't be a good sign.
[06:45] <Keybuk> infinity: my /usr/lib went missing last time
[06:45] <Kamion> infinity: compare failures on the squashfs and the unionfs?
[06:46] <Keybuk> does the CD contain an inventory of itself?
[06:46] <infinity> dmesg is filled with:
[06:46] <infinity> [4361559.926000]  __find_get_block_slow() failed. block=319, b_blocknr=316
[06:46] <infinity> [4361559.926000]  b_state=0x00000020, b_size=1024
[06:46] <infinity> [4361559.926000]  device blocksize: 1024
[06:46] <mdz> sweet, I get checksum mismatches on the i386 livefs
[06:46] <infinity> Keybuk: The ISO does.  The squash only has a manifest of installed packages.
[06:46] <Kamion> Ubuntu amd64 alternate manual partitioning PASS
[06:46] <janimo> Kamion: xubuntu installed and there was no ltsp 
[06:46] <mdz> apparently, aspell-en ships files in the .deb in /var
[06:46] <mdz> and then modifies them
[06:46] <Kamion> janimo: great
[06:46] <janimo> but no usplash either Iwonder why
[06:47] <Kamion> oh, that might be my fault
[06:47] <mdz> infinity: I only get one missing file on i386: debsums: can't open libgl1-mesa file /mnt/usr/lib/fglrx/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa (No such file or directory)
[06:47] <Kamion> hmm, no, should be fine
[06:47] <Kamion> janimo: is usplash installed? how about xubuntu-artwork-usplash?
[06:48] <Kamion> janimo: look for those in /var/log/installer/syslog
[06:48] <janimo> Kamion, yes it's installed in /etc/alternatives
[06:48] <Kamion> janimo: dpkg -l I mean
[06:48] <Keybuk> oh, wow
[06:48] <janimo> can using LVM on the whole disk have any effect on this?
[06:48] <Keybuk> I got a PANIC just with find and cat
[06:48] <janimo> I used lvm the first time
[06:48] <Kamion> janimo: no, I wouldn't think so
[06:48] <mdz> Keybuk: on plain squashfs or squashfs+unionfs?
[06:48] <Keybuk> mdz: unionfs
[06:48] <mdz> SWEET
[06:48] <Kamion> the squash should be in /rofs
[06:49] <Keybuk> gonna try the same on the squash now
[06:49] <infinity> mdz: That's special, since that file shouldn't exist in the first place...
[06:49] <janimo> Kamion, cmdline is ro quiet (no splash on it)
[06:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: find /root/rofs -- would that "touch" the unionfs at all?
[06:49] <Kamion> janimo: did you boot with debian-installer/framebuffer=false?
[06:50] <Kamion> Keybuk: not sure
[06:50] <mdz> Keybuk,infiinity: can one of you try loop-mounting the amd64 squashfs on i386 and see if it breaks there too?
[06:50] <infinity> mdz: That's what I've been doing.
[06:50] <Kamion> Keybuk: shouldn't've thought so apart from the name lookup on /rofs on the unionfs
[06:50] <infinity> mdz: That's where I got all the missing files.
[06:50] <mdz> Keybuk: only just barely, touching the /rofs inode might go through unionfs
[06:50] <infinity> mdz: I'm now poking at the amd64 machine directly.
[06:50] <mdz> Keybuk: whatever, non-amd64
[06:50] <janimo> Kamion, no plain reboot after install
[06:50] <janimo> and now a new reboot
[06:51] <infinity> squash is endian-sensitive, so it probably won't work on powerpc at all.
[06:51] <Kamion> janimo: I mean debian-installer/framebuffer=false as a parameter to the installer
[06:51] <janimo> Kamion: no, plain reboot as in I did not touch anything :)
[06:52] <janimo>  /proc/cmdline is root=/dev/mapper/Ubuntu-root ro quiet
[06:52] <janimo> that's what it is set to by the installer
[06:52] <infinity> Okay, that was special.  On a "break=bottom", busybox throws an OOPS.
[06:53] <Kamion> janimo: oh, maybe it does make a difference, we might not set up lilo with splash by default
[06:53] <mdz> elmo: found it; it was hiding in the server closet
[06:53] <Kamion> I thought we did, but could be I forgot
[06:54] <janimo> Kamion, lilo ? hmm it looked like grub to me
[06:54] <elmo> mdz: *blink* ok
[06:54] <mdz> janimo: grub can't boot from lvm, unless you have a separate /boot
[06:55] <janimo> it was definitely grub since the last installer screen was 'installing grub'
[06:55] <Keybuk> hmm, this CD is giving me sector errors now
[06:55] <Keybuk> I'm gonna toss it and burn another, won't take but a jiffy
[06:55] <Kamion> janimo: can you just file a bug on debian-installer and attach /var/log/installer/syslog then, please?
[06:55] <mdz> Keybuk,infinity: clearly you are both just having simultaneous hardware failures
[06:55] <tseng> Keybuk: is that 100 jiffies, or 1000?
[06:55] <mdz> I'm trying to arrange an impartial test here
[06:55] <tseng> per clock
[06:56] <janimo> Kamion, I'll file it. I chose use LVM on entire disk option. Whatever it set up I expected it erased the whole drive before
[06:56] <Kamion> it may well have set up a separate /boot
[07:00] <mdz> hell. I just confirmed the hang on amd64
[07:00] <mdz> Kamion: what would it take to mix and match the old amd64 build for RC?
[07:00] <Kamion> mdz: straightforward
[07:01] <Kamion> just means an extra careful publish-release invocation
[07:01] <Keybuk> doesn't the old build have ubiquity 1.0.4 though?
[07:01] <mdz> eek, I'm getting I/O errors on the CD too
[07:01] <Kamion> (publish-release honours $ARCHES)
[07:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: yes, we'd lose a few bug fixes, but we can cope
[07:02] <mdz> wow, even sysrq+t hangs
[07:02] <Keybuk> Kamion: like the link_on_boot bug fix?
[07:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: which only affects powerpc
[07:02] <mdz> Keybuk: that was powerpc-only
[07:02] <Keybuk> ahh
[07:02] <Keybuk> that's ok then
[07:02] <carlos> janimo: hi, around?
[07:03] <janimo> carlos: hi
[07:03] <carlos> janimo: is evince-gtk a package from xfc ?
[07:03] <mdz> the multiple-disk fix is the only one we'd have to document
[07:03] <janimo> carlos, no but it is part of xubuntu desktop. It should use the same .po files as evince
[07:03] <mdz> in hopes of avoiding dupes
[07:03] <Kamion> we'd lose: crash fix when deleting partitions; infloop fix for multi-disk systems; better interaction with gparted/qtparted plus one backup crash; crash fix on blank rows in mountpoints table
[07:04] <carlos> janimo: hmm, so it shares the translation domain?
[07:04] <janimo> carlos, so langpack-gnome I think.
[07:04] <janimo> carlos: yes
[07:04] <mdz> I think we should probably revert amd64, do RC, and attack it tomorrow
[07:04] <Kamion> I agree
[07:04] <mdz> in fact, if I'm not mistaken we have uploads queued
[07:04] <infinity> This one looks like it'll require fresh eyes and real brainpower.
[07:04] <Kamion> is everything else good?
[07:04] <infinity> Both of which I'm lacking right now.
[07:04] <carlos> janimo: ok, it has a bunch of .po files and lacks a .pot file so I was wondering what should I do  with those
[07:04] <mdz> so maybe it'll magically go away :-HD
[07:04] <carlos> janimo: if both share the same translations, I will remove the evince-gtk ones
[07:04] <carlos> janimo: thanks
[07:05] <mdz> all of my tests have been successful, modulo the trash icon being a little bit weird in my mutilated oem install
[07:05] <Keybuk> mdz: it'll affect i386 instead
[07:05] <infinity> mdz: Well, ubiquity and OOo broke it this time.  I have an OOo upload queued, so if Kamion uploads ubiquity, surely that will fix it.
[07:05] <janimo> carlos, I just set its trans;lation domain to evince so we dont; add this to the base langpack too
[07:05] <mdz> Keybuk: SATAN HAS YOUR TONGUE
[07:05] <Keybuk> there's a casper upload in incoming
[07:05] <Kamion> infinity: totem and some others too
[07:05] <janimo> and would be duplication otherwise
[07:05] <Keybuk> so that'll clearly make the problem go away
[07:05] <carlos> ok
[07:05] <infinity> Kamion: Oh, so I can blame totem?  Awesome.
[07:05] <mdz> I'm not even sure what is in incoming at this point
[07:05] <janimo> but if it's a problem for some reason I am ok with any solution you and/or pitti come up with
[07:05] <mdz> I'd like to review them before we process the queue
[07:05] <Kamion> ok, I'll start publishing now
[07:05] <infinity> mdz: It's not too deep.
[07:05] <janimo> same for xubuntu-system-tools and gnome-system-tools
[07:06] <mdz> Kamion: sounds good
[07:06] <infinity> Kamion: Make sure to take the 20060524 image for amd64... That's the one I put through rigorous testing yesterday.
[07:07] <Kamion> infinity: right. you wouldn't mind repeating that test now, would you?
[07:07] <Kamion> at least see that it boots
[07:07] <Kamion> not that I'm PARANOID or anything
[07:07] <infinity> Kamion: I still have the CD from yesterday.  Where do I verify the serial number?
[07:07] <Keybuk> maybe it's the squashfs authors birthday or something
[07:07] <Kamion> infinity: .disk/info
[07:07] <mdz> infinity: F1 at gfxboot, or that
[07:07] <janimo> carlos, do you know what jordi wants to talk to me about (if still relevant)?
[07:07] <Kamion> call me old-fashioned
[07:07] <Keybuk> whoah
[07:07] <mdz> Keybuk: or maybe the clock has rolled over to a bit pattern which breaks all amd64 CPUs
[07:08] <Keybuk> NMI Watchdog detected LOCKUP on CPU 0
[07:08] <mdz> Keybuk: I got one of those too!
[07:08] <Kamion> BTW, nobody run sync-mirrors on lithium for a while kthxbye
[07:08] <mdz> it's so completely fucked
[07:08] <carlos> janimo: he needs a list of core XFCE packages that should be translated first
[07:08] <Keybuk> that was just find on the squashfs
[07:08] <Keybuk> it's definitely the squash, not the union
[07:08] <mdz> Keybuk: or even lower
[07:08] <janimo> he needs 
[07:08] <mdz> Keybuk: squashfs doesn't explain the weird I/O errors
[07:08] <carlos> janimo: only desktop and base libraries
[07:08] <Keybuk> mdz: what is lower?
[07:08] <janimo> carlos, should I mail him the list?
[07:08] <infinity> Oh crap... Yesterday's doesn't work now either...
[07:09] <Keybuk> there isn't anything between the filesystem layer and the ATA driver
[07:09] <carlos> janimo: if he's not around and you need to leave, yes, please
[07:09] <infinity> Kamion: 20060524 booting fine.
[07:09] <mdz> Keybuk: what makes you think the ATA driver isn't at fault? :-P
[07:09] <Keybuk> mdz: because we all have different ATA drivers
[07:09] <mdz> you don't know what driver I have
[07:09] <mdz> infinity: did you get I/O errors too?
[07:09] <Keybuk> well, I know Tollef, infinity and I do ... because we've used that fact for testing before
[07:10] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, but not from libata.  They were just on the loop0 block device, afaict.
[07:10] <mdz> maybe someone unpacked the amd64 .deb on lithium
[07:10] <mdz> installed a rootkit
[07:10] <mdz> and put it back
[07:10] <mdz> the kernel deb
[07:10] <infinity> Kamion: Fully booted now.  Confirmed that 20060524 is fine.
[07:11] <Keybuk> infinity: was 24.1 a rebuild of amd64 too?
[07:11] <infinity> mdz: We don't use the kernel deb from lithium for livecd builds.  We use the kernel and initramfs that I export from the livefs build.
[07:11] <Kamion> ok
[07:11] <infinity> Keybuk: There was a 24.1?
[07:11] <Keybuk> infinity: there was
[07:11] <Kamion> publishing delayed while I recover archival copies of beta2
[07:11] <jordi> janimo: hey
[07:12] <mdz> Kamion: hmmm?
[07:12] <Keybuk> infinity: and it has a different md5sum
[07:12] <Keybuk> tell you what
[07:12] <Keybuk> I'll check 24.1, shall I?
[07:12] <mdz> Keybuk: knock yourself out
[07:12] <Kamion> mdz: it cleans up old releases when you didn't need them any more ...
[07:12] <jordi> so, yes, I'd like to talk to you about what's the order of most important xfce products
[07:12] <infinity> Oh, there was too.  That would have been a slightly newer ubiquity..
[07:12] <janimo> jordi hey
[07:12] <mdz> infinity: is the livefs build log published somewhere I can see iT?
[07:12] <jordi> hiya
[07:12] <infinity> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/livefs-build-logs/dapper/ubuntu/20060525.1/livecd-20060525.1-amd64.out
[07:13] <Kamion> or ~lamont/liveLogs/
[07:13] <mdz> thanks
[07:13] <Keybuk> mdz: can you diff 24 and 24.1 and check what's the difference there?
[07:13] <Kamion> example-content, gnome-power-manager, totem, ttf-arphic-uming, ubiquity, update-manager, update-notifier
[07:14] <janimo> jordi, I understand you need a list of core xfce packages?
[07:14] <mdz> squashfs automagically compresses out duplicate files? neat
[07:14] <mdz> Keybuk: that's what I did
[07:14] <jordi> janimo: any package added in main due to xubuntu I guess
[07:14] <mdz> Keybuk: oh, you mean the manifests?
[07:14] <Keybuk> mdz: 24 is known good, 25 is known bad
[07:14] <jordi> but yes, the xf* packages are probably mostly it
[07:14] <Keybuk> 24.1 is unknown
[07:14] <mdz> Keybuk: manifests are identical
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: no they aren't
[07:15] <Kamion> 18:13 < Keybuk> mdz: can you diff 24 and 24.1 and check what's the difference there?
[07:15] <Kamion> er
[07:15] <Kamion> 18:13 < Kamion> example-content, gnome-power-manager, totem, ttf-arphic-uming, ubiquity, update-manager, update-notifier
[07:15] <mdz> Kamion: 24 to 24.1?
[07:15] <janimo> jordi, ok I'll make a list
[07:15] <Kamion> cjwatson@lithium:~/cdimage/www/full/daily-live$ diff -u 20060524{,.1}/dapper-desktop-amd64.manifest
[07:15] <mdz> oh, I was redirecting the output
[07:15] <mdz> hehe
[07:15] <jordi> janimo: thanks!
[07:15] <mdz> yeah, bunch of stuff changed there
[07:15] <Kamion> I'll delay publishing amd64 desktop until somebody tells me what to do
[07:15] <mdz> +example-content 19
[07:15] <mdz> +gnome-power-manager 2.14.3-0ubuntu10
[07:15] <mdz> +libtotem-plparser1 1.4.1-0ubuntu4
[07:15] <mdz> +localechooser-data 0.27ubuntu21
[07:15] <mdz> +totem 1.4.1-0ubuntu4
[07:15] <mdz> +totem-gstreamer 1.4.1-0ubuntu4
[07:15] <mdz> +ttf-arphic-uming 0.1.20060513-1
[07:15] <mdz> +ubiquity 1.0.6
[07:15] <mdz> +ubiquity-frontend-gtk 1.0.6
[07:15] <mdz> +ubiquity-ubuntu-artwork 1.0.6
[07:15] <mdz> +update-manager 0.42.2ubuntu21
[07:15] <Keybuk> Kamion: will tell you whether this works in ~2 minutes
[07:15] <mdz> +update-notifier 0.42.5
[07:15] <mdz> totem is mark's fix, he won't notice
[07:16] <mdz> example-content is fairly significant though
[07:16] <jordi> janimo: basically, if a translator had to start translating xubuntu from scratch, what would you tell them is the most visible package, with the most important strings, etc?
[07:16] <Keybuk> mdz: ubiq 1.0.6 would be nice
[07:16] <Keybuk> that has most of the bug fixes
[07:16] <jordi> If I can get an ordered list of priorities, great
[07:16] <Kamion> Keybuk: 1.0.7 has most of them
[07:16] <Kamion> 1.0.6 only has the powerpc fix and bug 46395
[07:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46395 in ubiquity "Crash after comitting a delete of several partitions" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46395
[07:16] <Keybuk> so what changed in 25?  just openoffice?
[07:16] <mdz> you know, we could dpkg -i ubiquity 1.0.7 into that chroot.......
[07:17] <Keybuk> mdz: try it
[07:17] <mdz> Keybuk: openoffice and ubiquity 1.0.7
[07:17] <janimo> jordi, ok. That would be the all deps of xubuntu-desktop which are not alreday deps of ubuntu-desktop. But I can make a more explicit list
[07:17] <Kamion> ubiquity{,-frontend-gtk,-ubuntu-artwork}
[07:17] <Keybuk> you introduced a black hole into the .desktop file
[07:17] <Keybuk> the squashfs collapsed under its own mass
[07:17] <infinity> It was more than just the .desktop file..
[07:17] <jordi> janimo: thanks
[07:17] <infinity> That was a huge OOo change for amd64.  It hadn't been updated for a month or more.
[07:18] <infinity> Still, I can't see why that should break the freakin' squashfs. :)
[07:18] <janimo> jordi, btw in the dapper language pack updates, will only stuff translated in rosetta appear?
[07:18] <infinity> Maybe the author is punishing us for shipping the hideous hack that is OOo-i386-on-amd64.
[07:18] <janimo> if upstream works on .po files on their own can that be imported too?
[07:18] <jordi> janimo: it's the only way the language packs can collect new translations
[07:18] <jordi> janimo: not atm, no
[07:19] <janimo> ok
[07:19] <Keybuk> infinity: perhaps we've opened a portal into another universe
[07:19] <Keybuk> casper is going off the end of the squashfs and into HYPERSPACEFS
[07:20] <sfllaw> mdz: I uplaoded new versions of WvStreams and WvDial into the archive.  Was I supposed to get e-mail notification?  Or did I do something wrong and they got silently eaten?
[07:20] <infinity> I'd find this all rather more entertaining if it wasn't A WEEK BEFORE RELEASE.
[07:20] <infinity> This bug better just magically go away on the next build...
[07:20] <Keybuk> infinity: that'd only be more scary
[07:20] <Keybuk> because it means it could COME BACK
[07:20] <infinity> Keybuk: It can't come back once we ship pressed CDs.
[07:20] <Keybuk> we should keep a tally of "Last known good AMD64" on Testing/Current
[07:20] <Kamion> sfllaw: you won't get a notification until the queue processor is turned back on post-RC
[07:21] <mdz> sfllaw: uploads are queued, /topic
[07:21] <mdz> Keybuk: I don't have an amd64 where I can easily do that
[07:21] <Kamion> I forgot to pre-publish server-sparc, whoops
[07:21] <mdz> Keybuk: can you try it?
[07:21] <sfllaw> mdz: You mean they are looked at manually.  Thanks.
[07:21] <Keybuk> mdz: try which?
[07:21] <infinity> mdz: There are only 20 uploads pending in incoming.  Not so scary.
[07:21] <mdz> sfllaw: I mean they sit in limbo until we turn the automatic queue processor back on
[07:22] <mdz> Keybuk: dpkg -i ubiquity_1.0.7*
[07:22] <mdz> Keybuk: then re-mksquashfs
[07:22] <Keybuk> mdz: I don't have access to lithium
[07:22] <mdz> stir the entropy pool a bit
[07:22] <Keybuk> unless there's a rune I can use on my console here to make a new cd iamge
[07:22] <mdz> Keybuk: what does lithium have to do with it?
[07:22] <mdz> Keybuk: there is
[07:22] <Keybuk> can you paste, and I shall do
[07:22] <Keybuk> 24.1 breaks
[07:22] <infinity> mdz: That's not possible, actually.
[07:22] <Keybuk> so it was't openoffice
[07:22] <mdz> infinity: what?
[07:22] <sfllaw> mdz: My real question, I suppose, is "did I do everything I needed to do to fix these bugs?"
[07:22] <mdz> sfllaw: yes, thanks
[07:22] <Kamion> you'd have to copy the whole tree and then dpkg -i
[07:22] <sfllaw> mdz: Cool.
[07:22] <infinity> mdz: squashfs is read-only.  Can't copy out of it to another directory to dpkg -i stuff, because it's not readable.
[07:23] <infinity> mdz: Chicken, meet egg.
[07:23] <mdz> infinity: 24.1 is readable, isn't it?
[07:23] <infinity> mdz: Oh, duh.  Yeah.
[07:23] <mdz> it also happens to be b0rked also
[07:23] <mdz> Keybuk: that is VERY DISCONCERTING
[07:23] <infinity> I could just dist-upgrade the known-good 20060524 and re-squash it.
[07:24] <mdz> infinity: worth a shot
[07:24] <infinity> Maybe something in example content is confusing the &^$#$ out of squash's compression algorithm? :)
[07:24] <Keybuk> infinity: that's what I was thinking of blaming next :)
[07:25] <janimo> jordi, oh so not just a list of packages but which are the most visible (i.e most worth translating?)
[07:25] <mdz> that would explain ogra's results
[07:25] <mdz> he doesn't ship example-content
[07:25] <ogra> example-content ? 
[07:25] <ogra> yeah
[07:25] <Keybuk> infinity: is it easy to make one with everything but that, and one with that too
[07:25] <infinity> Does kubuntu ship it?
[07:25] <Keybuk> infinity: burning kubuntu right now
[07:25] <mdz> infinity: yes
[07:26] <Keybuk> yeah, example-content 19 on this image
[07:26] <mdz> [2]   + segmentation fault  sudo cp -a /mnt /tmp/amd64-livefs
[07:26] <mdz> that's on i386
[07:26] <jordi> janimo: yeah, that's it
[07:26] <Kamion> so 24.1 broken, I'm publishing 24?
[07:26] <mdz> trying to make a copy of the livefs
[07:26] <jordi> janimo: what you guys would want to get translated first.
[07:26] <mdz> Kamion: so far, yes
[07:26] <mdz> who verified 24?
[07:26] <Keybuk> Kamion: 24.1 is broken
[07:26] <Kamion> infinity did
[07:26] <Keybuk> infinity has verified 24
[07:26] <infinity> mdz: I verified 24.
[07:26] <mdz> [4391213.265000]   [<f917931b>]  squashfs_read_data+0x10b/0x490 [squashfs] 
[07:26] <janimo> jordi: ok, so does this still mean al packages need to be mentioned in sort of descending order of importance? Like devel libarries and such too?
[07:27] <Kamion> BenC: around?
[07:27] <infinity> Good thing we're not hinging our installer on this technology or anything.
[07:27] <Kamion> BenC: might be good to start tracking down the kernel bug here while we still can ...
[07:27] <Kamion> in case it disappears tomorrow and then comes back on release day
[07:27] <mdz> not that that's ever happened before...
[07:28] <jordi> janimo: yeah, if possible I want to know which are the user visible, most important
[07:28] <Kamion> (has it? trying to remember)
[07:28] <jordi> and go down in importance until those that are only console or so
[07:28] <jordi> if any
[07:28] <janimo> jordi: ok, got it 
[07:28] <jordi> ok!
[07:28] <ogra> we always had this oops during boot that dint do any harm ... probably it just got harmful 
[07:28] <ogra> *didnt
[07:29] <jordi> sorry, I thought you had a clear explanation already and I was assuming things :)
[07:29] <BenC> Kamion: which kernel bug
[07:29] <infinity> BenC: The last 1000 lines of painful scrollback.
[07:29] <Keybuk> BenC: the PANIC when you boot the AMD64 Desktop CD
[07:29] <BenC> squashfs?
[07:29] <Kamion> yes
[07:29] <mdz> BenC: apparently, though it's weird
[07:29] <BenC> is there a bug report?
[07:29] <Kamion> (apparently)
[07:30] <mdz> BenC: no, this is real-time
[07:30] <BenC> ok, let me read
[07:30] <Riddell> infinity: yes
[07:30] <Keybuk> everybody hold hands and pray for kubuntu
[07:30] <infinity> ARGH.   I need to reboot.  My mounted squash is hung on those cats from ages back.
[07:31] <infinity> Riddell: Context?
[07:31] <ogra> infinity, he just thinks positive :)
[07:31] <mdz> Riddell: kubuntu/amd64/desktop: busticated or no?
[07:31] <ogra> (example-content)
[07:31] <infinity> Riddell: Oh, that was "do you ship example-content"
[07:31] <Keybuk> KUBUNTU HAS BOOTED
[07:32] <mdz> Keybuk: ah, but does it install?
[07:32] <BenC> about the only thing I can do is download the ISO and see what's up
[07:32] <mdz> Riddell: have you tested the amd64 desktop CD?
[07:32] <Keybuk> mdz: I'm just doing a find | cat
[07:32] <mdz> BenC: what version do you have currently?
[07:33] <Keybuk> and I got a "Hard link count is wrong for /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-amd64-generic/kernel/net"
[07:33] <mdz> BenC: both 20060524.1 and 20060525 exhibit the problem
[07:33] <iwj> I'm going to go and buy a damned spare disk tomorrow.  This is just too flakey.
[07:33] <mdz> Keybuk: unionfs does that sometimes
[07:33] <Kamion> iwj: I suggest a blessed one instead
[07:33] <Riddell> yes we ship example content on kubuntu, no I've not had any hangs on any 6 of the CDs
[07:33] <mdz> Keybuk: find /rofs instead
[07:33] <mdz> infinity: do you save the livefs in another form?
[07:33] <BenC> are the CD's using squashfs2 or squashfs3?
[07:34] <iwj> Malone 93183: Installation fails on cursed -3 disk.
[07:34] <mdz> infinity: which could be used for the dpkg/mksquashfs experiment without having to get things out of the existing squashfs?
[07:34] <mdz> infinity: or are you proceeding with the dist-upgrade+mksquashfs experiment?
[07:34] <mdz> BenC: they're using whatever you ship in the kernel
[07:34] <mdz> BenC: 3.0prerelease I think?
[07:35] <BenC> the squashfs in the kernel supports both versions of hte fs
[07:35] <BenC> it all depends on which mksquashfs program is being called
[07:35] <mdz> /mnt/casper/filesystem.squashfs: Squashfs filesystem, little endian, version 2.1, 631275173 bytes, 81923 inodes, blocksize: 65536 bytes, created: Thu May 25 16:58:35 2006
[07:35] <mdz> BenC: ^^
[07:36] <Keybuk> mdz: which is that?  that's not 25
[07:36] <BenC> any chance of testing a version 3 filesystem?
[07:36] <ogra> Keybuk,  created: Thu May 25 ?
[07:36] <Keybuk> the size is wrong
[07:37] <Keybuk> AMD64 #25 was 621,375,520
[07:37] <BenC> damnit...squashfs-tools only contains the v2 creator
[07:37] <mdz> Keybuk: really?
[07:37] <Keybuk> mdz: yes
[07:37] <BenC> I though Mith or someone was going to shove mksquashfs3 into the package too
[07:38] <Keybuk> (Kubuntu passed find|cat ... so it's unique to Ubuntu)
[07:38] <mdz> BenC: we are so not changing that right now
[07:38] <BenC> must be a variance in mksquashfs
[07:39] <Kamion> perhaps we should have mksquashfs3 in there as well so that at least we *can* experiment ...
[07:39] <BenC> yeah, that's what I'm saying
[07:39] <ogra> but the same mksquashfs is used for all derivatives as well
[07:39] <ogra> and they work ...
[07:39] <Kamion> and it's worked for Ubuntu for quite some time as well, but now it doesn't
[07:39] <BenC> ogra: and amd64 is the only one that is 64-bit userland :/
[07:40] <mdz> ogra: the same one was used for all the previous amd64 images, too; htat's not the point
[07:40] <Keybuk> ok
[07:40] <Keybuk> that's kinda interesting
[07:40] <mdz> we changed its input
[07:40] <jcole> if someone has time, kernel build help please -> http://pastebin.com/737508
[07:40] <Kamion> jcole: this isn't really a good time ...
[07:40] <ogra> jcole, really not today, not here
[07:40] <BenC> jcole: #ubuntu-kernel
[07:40] <jcole> BenC: whew, awesome
[07:41] <infinity> squashfs-tools in Debian has been at 3.0 for ages, IIRC, we vetoed the version bump in dapper in April.
[07:41] <infinity> Anyhow, back from my reboot of doom.
[07:41] <infinity> mdz: Doing the experiment now.
[07:42] <mdz> infinity: which one?
[07:42] <BenC> maybe do "touch /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-amd64-generic/kernel/net/fixerup" to see if that varies things enough to work? :)
[07:42] <infinity> mdz: extract->distupgrade->squash
[07:42] <mdz> infinity: extract doesn't blow up?
[07:42] <Keybuk> ah no, the size thing isn't interesting
[07:42] <infinity> mdz: Err, not there yet.  Just rebooted.
[07:42] <mdz> Keybuk: I'm not sure what I have; cdimage won't talk to me anymore
[07:42] <Keybuk> file always thinks that the squashfs size is smaller than the real file size
[07:43] <Keybuk> I must have typo'd the 621 ... it was 631
[07:43] <Keybuk> the file is < 512b bigger than the squashfs size
[07:43] <BenC> anyone have the squashfs for the amd64 that I can simply grab real quick?
[07:43] <lucasvo> anybody know a kbabel gtk equivalent ?
[07:44] <BenC> will be much faster then the whole cd
[07:44] <Kamion> ? the squashfs is only fractionally smaller than the CD
[07:44] <ogra> lucasvo, wrong channel, wrong time
[07:44] <infinity> BenC: What Kamion said.  They're nearly the same size.
[07:44] <BenC> oh, crappy
[07:45] <mdz> BenC: which version of the CD do you currently have? the rsync delta shouldn't be too large
[07:45] <BenC> in that case, anyone have a place where I can download it faster then 35k/sec?
[07:45] <mdz> you can get the pre-oo.o update version
[07:45] <BenC> mdz: The only amd64 one I have is flight6
[07:46] <BenC> that one worked fine for when I did the install on my k8
[07:46] <iwj> I wonder why the d-i installer is so much flakier with this disk than ubiquity was earlier ?  I suppose it might actually be a bug but I dan't really tell.
[07:46] <Keybuk> hmm
[07:46] <Keybuk> the problem would appear to be in /var
[07:46] <mdz> BenC: that's almost two months old
[07:46] <infinity> Keybuk: How did you deduce this?
[07:46] <janimo> jordi at ubuntu.com?
[07:46] <BenC> mdz: yeah, it's useless
[07:46] <Keybuk> infinity: the last three finds I've done have crashed there
[07:46] <jordi> janimo: yeah!
[07:47] <BenC> Keybuk: crashed the computer, or just crashed find?
[07:47] <ogra> Keybuk, now diff /var of ubuntu with /var of kubuntu/edubuntu ;)
[07:47] <Keybuk> BenC: PANIC Aiieeee etc.
[07:47] <infinity> Keybuk: Well, squashfs sorts before it builds, so if we're doing overlong reads, you'd expect stuff near the end to cause more problems than stuff near the beginning.
[07:47] <infinity> Keybuk: Doesn't mean much...
[07:47] <BenC> do you have a full panic I can look at?
[07:47] <Keybuk> BenC: how do I save it?
[07:48] <BenC> Keybuk: digitial photo would be perfect
[07:48] <infinity> Okay, extracted the whole 24 livefs without a whisper in dmesg.  Chrooting in to dist-upgrade.
[07:48] <BenC> and easiest
[07:48] <Keybuk> BenC: hmm, I'd need to see if I can the video mode to be *really* high res :)
[07:48] <mdz> these filesystems are so close, it's silly
[07:49] <BenC> Keybuk: vga=ask
[07:49] <BenC> see if that gets you something
[07:49] <Keybuk> BenC: it appears not
[07:49] <Keybuk> infinity: if the filesystems are odd, I'd expect it to go wrong somewhere else though, no?
[07:49] <infinity> Keybuk: vga=771
[07:50] <infinity> Keybuk: Or 791
[07:50] <Keybuk> infinity: which is higher res?
[07:50] <infinity> Not sure.
[07:50] <Kamion> all releases.u.c changes syncing out now
[07:50] <infinity> Mine is vga=0x343 (1440x1050)
[07:50] <infinity> That high enough for you?
[07:50] <mdz> Keybuk: what's your /var hypothesis based on?
[07:51] <Keybuk> mdz: that's where find crashes, but as infinity says, that could just be sorting
[07:51] <infinity> Kamion: Is this the part where we rejoice that SOMETHING went out, or continue crying about amd64? :)
[07:51] <lamont> mdz/kamion: it would be wonderful if we could fix 46496 post-RC
[07:51] <BenC> find doesn't sort does it?
[07:51] <Kamion> janimo: xubuntu is good to release, right?
[07:51] <mdz> lamont: talk to me about it tomorrow please
[07:51] <Kamion> for RC
[07:52] <lamont> mdz: will do
[07:52] <infinity> BenC: The squashfs is sorted.
[07:52] <lamont> BenC: no
[07:52] <bddebian> Not a bug but if capslock is hit on gksudo window, it screws up the display of the OK/Cancel buttons
[07:52] <Kamion> janimo: (urgently - I have to go in about 8 minutes)
[07:53] <Keybuk> vga=791 will do
[07:53] <jordi> janimo: got it!
[07:53] <mdz> Kamion: just exclude it
[07:53] <infinity> Well, aren't we glad I fixed the "vesafb doesn't work without splash onthe command line" bug? :)
[07:53] <mdz> or not
[07:53] <Kamion> mdz: it's for cdimage.u.c not releases.u.c
[07:54] <Kamion> (releases doesn't have room, last I checked ...)
[07:54] <Keybuk> sweeeeeet
[07:54] <jordi> janimo: you mean xubuntu-docs is the most important?
[07:54] <mdz> Kamion: so it only matters for the announcement then, yes?
[07:54] <Keybuk> cat /mnt/spool/cron/atjobs/.SEQ
[07:54] <Kamion> mdz: yes, was hoping to get it out pre-announcement so that we didn't need a second one
[07:54] <Keybuk> SQUASHFS error: zlib_fs returned unexpected result 0xfffffffd
[07:54] <Kamion> it'll be done in a few minutes
[07:54] <ogra> eek
[07:54] <Keybuk> SQUASHFS error: Unable to read fragment cache block [0] 
[07:54] <Keybuk> SQUASHFS error: Unable to read page, block 0, size 0
[07:55] <mvo> bddebian: thanks, its reported in lp
[07:55] <mdz> Keybuk: /mnt/spool? or /mnt/var/spool?
[07:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: you're going to tell me this is a 1 in 2^32 chance, aren't you
[07:55] <bddebian> mvo: OK, thx
[07:56] <Keybuk> mdz: /mnt/var/spool
[07:56] <mdz> Keybuk: that's probably Z_DATA_ERROR
[07:56] <Keybuk> Kamion: we wouldn't see it on three cd images if it were
[07:56] <bddebian> Are only core devs supposed to add info to the Testing/Current page?
[07:56] <Kamion> Keybuk: we might do, if the relevant region of the filesystem didn't change in there
[07:56] <mdz> bddebian: test results are welcomed from everyone
[07:56] <infinity> bddebian: More testing is good, though we want core-dev coverage on each ISO.
[07:56] <mdz> bddebian: if you saw something which gave you a different impression, fix it ;-)
[07:57] <infinity> bddebian: Non-core coverage is also really cool. :)
[07:57] <bddebian> mdz: OK, thx
[07:57] <Keybuk> Kamion: the file that's particularly upset it (and made it crash) is 
[07:57] <Keybuk> shockingly
[07:58] <Keybuk> /var/lib/apt/lists/...
[07:58] <bddebian> Hmm, maybe I don't have a login for the wiki.kubuntu.com?
[07:58] <giftnudel> bddebian: take your launchpad login
[07:58] <giftnudel> ahh missed te k
[07:59] <bddebian> Is there a Testing page on wiki.ubuntu.com also?
[07:59] <mdz> Keybuk: what's the best break= to use for fiddling with this?
[07:59] <giftnudel> yes
[07:59] <Keybuk> mdz: break=casper-bottom
[07:59] <jcole> do rejected/closed bugs get deleted after a while? http://tinyurl.com/k7avz
[07:59] <Keybuk> then you have /root mounted
[07:59] <Kamion> OK, Xubuntu going out now (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/dapper/rc/). The rest (stuff like ports) can happen after I get back.
[07:59] <Kamion> jcole: no
[07:59] <giftnudel> bddebian: probably not for kubuntu
[07:59] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks
[08:00] <LaserJock> bddebian: i thought they were the same wiki, ubuntu, kubuntu and edubuntu
[08:00] <Kamion> jcole: you might have to use advanced search though
[08:01] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/crash0.jpg
[08:01] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/crash1.jpg
[08:01] <Kamion> mdz: Ubuntu (including server), Kubuntu, and Edubuntu all done too, on releases.ubuntu.com. You might want to check up on mirroring status yourself when you're doing the announcement.
[08:01] <Keybuk> BenC: ^^
[08:01] <Kamion> Sweden should be triggered
[08:01] <Kamion> us.releases seems hopelessly buggered (IIRC out of disk or something)
[08:01] <bddebian> LaserJock: Maybe they are?
[08:02] <bddebian> Gah meeting :-(
[08:02] <Kamion> mdz: and I'm off, please SMS me if the sky falls down and there may be something I can do to get network access
[08:03] <Keybuk> note that weird ./lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com./lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com path
[08:04] <BenC> Keybuk: Looks like the real cause is in zlib
[08:04] <BenC> it's getting bad compressed data, or squashfs is handing it some corrupted data or similar
[08:05] <BenC> s/cause/crash/
[08:05] <mdz> BenC: I have a trace for you
[08:05] <BenC> cause is obviously squashfs
[08:05] <mdz> a trace with no squashfs code in it though
[08:05] <mdz> reproduced by mounting the squashfs on an i386 system and doing 'ls' in /var/lib/apt/lists inside the squashfs
[08:05] <BenC> SQUASFS error: zlib_fs returned unexpected result ...
[08:06] <BenC> mdz: ok, send it over
[08:06] <BenC> "Unable able to read page, block 0, size 0"
[08:06] <BenC> that's interesting too
[08:06] <mdz> BenC: mailed
[08:08] <mdz> BenC: (sent you the whole dmesg)
[08:08] <BenC> ok, thanks
[08:08] <Keybuk> bluetooth does work nicely now
[08:08] <Keybuk> it's far easier just to send stuff from phone to computer that way than find the usb cable
[08:08] <infinity> Uhh, did anyone else get mail from Joerg Bashir <brak@archive.org> in the last two hours?
[08:09] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/crash2.jpg
[08:09] <Keybuk> BenC: ^ that's another interesting one
[08:09] <mdz> Keybuk: that trace is fucked
[08:10] <Keybuk> mdz: it is?
[08:10] <Keybuk> I like that it wants to go four times off the end of the squashfs :)
[08:10] <mdz> it's missing the middle bit
[08:10] <mdz> the stack
[08:10] <Keybuk> heh
[08:10] <mdz> it has the location of the crash and then the Code: line
[08:10] <Keybuk> so it is
[08:10] <ogra> infinity, no
[08:11] <mdz> infinity: how's the experiment going?
[08:11] <BenC> "attempt to access beyond end of device"
[08:11] <infinity> mdz: Burning the experiment right now.
[08:11] <Keybuk> BenC: any other prodding that would be useful to you?
[08:11] <BenC> I'm thinking that the filesystem is just plain borked and that these crashes are just the result of the kernel module not doing enough sanity checking
[08:12] <mdz> wow
[08:12] <BenC> the real problem seems to be in the mksquashfs
[08:12] <Keybuk> three consecutive filesystems have been borked in this manner
[08:12] <Keybuk> so it must be some file we added in 24.1
[08:12] <BenC> anyone tried creating the filesystem on i386 instead of on amd64?
[08:12] <BenC> I wouldn't be surprised of mksquashfs wasn't 64-bit safe
[08:13] <sven-tek> Hi devels, just tried to get you latest work. But gnome-btdownload says "Requested download is not authorized for use with this tracker.", is the server overloaded or something?
[08:13] <mdz> wow
[08:13] <Keybuk> mdz: ?
[08:13] <mdz> accessing /var/spool/cron/atjobs/.SEQ in vmware
[08:13] <mdz> causes vmware to implode
[08:13] <Keybuk> infinity: no
[08:13] <mdz> *** Virtual machine kernel stack fault (hardware reset) ***
[08:13] <BenC> lol
[08:13] <mdz> "On a real computer, this would amount to a reset of the processor"
[08:13] <BenC> squashfs rules
[08:13] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, I had one of those earlier
[08:14] <Keybuk> it reset one of the two cores
[08:14] <mdz> [ ]  Never show this dialog again
[08:15] <Keybuk> mdz: has that tickled you?
[08:15] <BenC> 7 more hours to download this amd64 iso
[08:15] <infinity> mdz: What a friendly emulator! :)
[08:15] <mdz> does squashfs have a super duper debug mode?
[08:15] <bgertzfield> Howdy folks.
[08:15] <BenC> there has to be a faster way :/
[08:15] <mdz> bgertzfield: hi, you know much about squashfs?
[08:15] <bgertzfield> mdz: Nope!
[08:15] <mdz> damn, was worth a try
[08:15] <BenC> bah, can't do torrent unless I want to disable uploads
[08:15] <Keybuk> even Ubugtu has fled in fear
[08:16] <mdz> somebody get Phillip Lougher's home address
[08:17] <ogra> mdz, #squashfs is also empty (while we're at trys)
[08:17] <infinity> He'll just tell us to use 3.0.
[08:17] <infinity> Which may have been a sane plan... Last month. :)
[08:17] <infinity> (It may still be saner than debugging this)
[08:17] <Keybuk> mdz: Wales somewhere
[08:18] <infinity> mdz: I can drop the debian 3.0 packages in king's livefs-building chroot and respin that fs for kicks.
[08:18] <mdz> infinity: is there a real RCS somewhere or just the sourceforge CVS?
[08:18] <mdz> infinity: better to do it locally so you can test faster, no?
[08:19] <infinity> mdz: I don't know yet if I can reproduce it locally. We know that every build on king in the last 2 days has gone tits-up.
[08:19] <infinity> But yeah, I should reproduce it locally for sanity's sake.
[08:20] <infinity> mdz: And I have no idea where upstream source lives.
[08:20] <Keybuk> squashfs.sourceforge.net ?
[08:20] <infinity> Well, other than that. :)
[08:22] <mdz> the log message in the CVS seems to imply there's something else
[08:23] <mdz> BenC: what's the date of our squashfs prerelease?
[08:23] <infinity> Okay, extra->dist-upgrade->rebuild blew up in exactly the same way,
[08:23] <infinity> extract, even.
[08:23] <infinity> So, I can reproduce it locally.
[08:23] <janimo> Kamion, yes xubuntu is good for RC
[08:23] <BenC> mdz: quite a while back
[08:23] <Keybuk> infinity: how long does an experiment take?
[08:23] <Keybuk> can you shell script it?
[08:23] <infinity> (And sitrring in entropy didn't help)
[08:23] <infinity> Keybuk: Depends on what I'm doing with said experiment, I guess.
[08:23] <mdz> there are no interesting bug fixes in the past 6 months or so
[08:23] <Keybuk> well, we have the list of packages that changed between 24 and 24.1
[08:24] <mdz> in CVS, that is
[08:24] <Keybuk> so we could make an image for each, which has 24 with just that package upgraded
[08:24] <Keybuk> and see which one(s) break
[08:24] <mdz> it seems likely that it's some pattern of file contents/sizes that triggers it
[08:24] <infinity> mdz: Except that upstream's entire focus is now on 3.0, and we're still using 2.0...
[08:24] <mdz> infinity: there's only one CVS tree with both in it
[08:24] <mdz> and there hasn't been anything interesting for a long time
[08:25] <mdz> 5 days ago there was:
[08:25] <mdz> Fixed 2.6 kernel code to remove rare race condition when multiply mounted
[08:25] <mdz> Squashfs filesystems are simulataneously accessed.
[08:25] <infinity> mdz: Well, yes, but if this bug doesn't exist in 3.0, he's not likely to find it or care about fixing t in 2.0, that was my point.
[08:25] <mdz> squashfs3 was imported 6 months ago and has hardly changed since then
[08:25] <infinity> Whack.
[08:25] <infinity> Kay, he's almost certainly using another RCS,then.
[08:26] <infinity> Or he just lost interest.  Which seems unlikely with a project like this.
[08:26] <mdz> the best part is that the bug isn't arch-specific
[08:26] <mdz> it very well could hit us again elsewhere
[08:26] <Keybuk> git probably
[08:27] <ogra> according to murphy it would hit us on release day
[08:27] <infinity> Well, unless, as BenC surmises, it's a combination of an arch-specific bug in mksquashfs on amd64, and poor error checking in the kernel driver.
[08:27] <infinity> Which is possible.
[08:27] <janimo> jordi, I think xubuntu-docs is important but yes, maybe not the most :)
[08:28] <jordi> janimo: ok. it's the first in the list :)
[08:28] <janimo> I have no idea what users would rather like to be translated.
[08:28] <janimo> jordi: well yes I put it there since I tought it was very important
[08:28] <jordi> janimo: ok
[08:28] <mdke> janimo, jordi, what's going on with xubuntu-docs?
[08:28] <jordi> mdke: it won't fit in the CD and I decided to get rid of the docs!
[08:28] <janimo> mdke, making a prioritiezed list of apps to be translated in rosetta
[08:28] <jordi> no, raelly, we're discussing translation priorities
[08:29] <mdke> but isn't it in rosetta already?
[08:29] <mdke> oh, priorities
[08:29] <jordi> :)
[08:29] <infinity> Keybuk: TBH, I think I'd rather sleep than build a dozen incremental squashfses... But that sounds like a fun project for tomorrow.
[08:30] <mdz> infinity: that's easy to test
[08:30] <mdz> infinity: mksquashfs the same data on a different arch
[08:30] <infinity> Yeah.  Freeing up space on the laptop to do that right now.
[08:31] <infinity> Damned OOo.  I had 700MB of crap in cache/apt/archives
[08:32] <mdz> I would try that, but I can't manage to get the data out of the squashfs intact anywhere
[08:32] <mdz> infinity: do you save a copy on the buildd in another form?
[08:32] <rddp> I guess you guys know amd64 is fubar'd right? Is i386 ok for d/l + testing?
[08:33] <mdz> rddp: yes, see the past hour or so of scrollback
[08:33] <infinity> mdz: No, but it mightn't be a bad plan to do that in the future...
[08:33] <mdz> rddp: the problem only affects ubuntu/amd64/desktop at the moment
[08:33] <rddp> ah ok sorry :)
[08:33] <Keybuk> infinity: fair enough
[08:33] <mdz> infinity: did you save your dist-upgraded tree by any chance?
[08:33] <infinity> mdz: Yes.  taring that up and sending it to my laptop.
[08:33] <ogra> rddp, kubuntu and edubuntu are fine (in case youre hot to test amd64 CDs)
[08:34] <rddp> just wanted to test for grepping plain text passwords and so forth :-p
[08:34] <rddp> ogra, will do
[08:34] <mdz> infinity: I don't suppose there's an un-mksquashfs userland utility
[08:35] <mdz> infinity: and you don't still build cloops
[08:35] <infinity> mdz: No, we only build cloop or squasfhs, never both.  Disk usage would be horrendous, and time wasted would be even worse.
[08:36] <infinity> mdz: "unmksquashfs" is the kernel driver.  Just like "unmkisofs" :)
[08:36] <infinity> (too bad that doesn't work..)
[08:37] <mdz> is there a different version of the kernel driver, with different bugs, that we might try just for uncompressing purposes?
[08:37] <mdz> this filesystem is our only test case and we can't manipulate it :-P
[08:38] <infinity> I haven't the foggiest.
[08:38] <mdz> I'm going to see about building a version with tracing enabled
[08:38] <infinity> BenC: Where are we getting the kernel driver from?
[08:38] <mdz> actually, that's probably easier for BenC
[08:38] <mdz> BenC: could you build a 386 squashfs module with SQUASHFS_TRACE?
[08:39] <BenC> yeah
[08:40] <BenC> mdz: Since you are on 386, can you rebuild the fs on there and see if it has the same problem?
[08:41] <mdz> BenC: see above
[08:41] <mdz> I can't rebuild the FS because the squashfs driver is the only way to extract it, and the driver crashes
[08:41] <Keybuk> mdz: at least all versions of the filesystem that we create exhibit the bug
[08:41] <BenC> mdz: mksquashfs /mnt ?
[08:42] <mdz> BenC: find |xargs cat crashes it
[08:42] <Keybuk> BenC: the bug would be tripped by mksquashfs reading /mnt
[08:42] <BenC> oh wait
[08:42] <BenC> yeah
[08:42] <Keybuk> mdz: how does mksquashfs get run on lithium
[08:43] <Keybuk> just "mksquashfs" ?
[08:43] <mdz> infinity has an uncompressed copy of a filesystem which exhibits the problem
[08:43] <infinity> Keybuk: It doesn't.  (but yes, on the buildds, it's invoked with no options)
[08:43] <mdz> Keybuk: it doesn't; it gets run on the buildds
[08:45] <infinity> Does someone want to buy me a bigger and faster hard drive for my laptop for Christmas?
[08:46] <Keybuk> like did someone accidentally ship a core file
[08:46] <infinity> sparse files, even?
[08:46] <Keybuk> yes, those
[08:46] <infinity> I would hope sparse files would be handled correctly anyway, but that's easy to test with dd.
[08:46] <Keybuk> dd
[08:46] <Keybuk> ?
[08:46] <mdz> mksqashfs would have to try hard to realize it was dealing with a sparse file
[08:47] <Keybuk> it was just a thought
[08:47] <mdz> we could binary diff the working and non-working fses
[08:47] <mdz> then stare really hard at a hex dump
[08:47] <Keybuk> mdz: I don't especially enjoy reading diffs of gzipped stuff ;)
[08:48] <mdz> Keybuk: I'm guessing the problem isn't with the compressed data itself but with the filesystem metadata
[08:48] <infinity> Keybuk: yes, dd.  As in "dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k of=foo seek=25637204 count=0"
[08:48] <Keybuk> mdz: yet it's definitely being caused by a new or changed file
[08:48] <Keybuk> infinity: ah, you mean make one
[08:48] <infinity> Keybuk: A 26252496896 length file tha ttakes 0k of real space.
[08:49] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, make one, mksquashfs it, mount it. see what happens.
[08:49] <infinity> But I'd be shocked to discover that sparse files break anything..
[08:50] <infinity> (Although... If it's trusting file lengths, and there was a core from a machine with 2G of RAM, that could account for huge seeks past the end of our 650MB device...)
[08:50] <infinity> That would be pretty painfully stupid, though.
[08:50] <Keybuk> infinity: 4*650 > 2GB
[08:50] <BenC> mdz: -386, right?
[08:50] <Keybuk> which is where my idea came
[08:51] <mdz> elmo: can you smack the torrent tracker around?
[08:51] <mdz> BenC: yes
[08:51] <Riddell> mdz: separate or joint announcements for kubuntu/ubuntu/edubuntu?
[08:51] <infinity> Well, the buildds have a mess of RAM, so it's not inconciveable that we're accidentally dropping a core somewhere.
[08:51] <mdz> Riddell: joint announcement
[08:51] <Riddell> ok, good with me
[08:51] <Znarl> mdz : I'll headbutt the torrent tracker for you.
[08:52] <mdz> Riddell: can you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseCandidateAnnouncement accordingly?
[08:52] <mdz> Keybuk: I can't even do an ls -lR on the filesystem, it crashes
[08:52] <pitti> hi
[08:52] <mdz> pitti: welcome to the fire
[08:53] <Keybuk> mdz: I'll see if I can do a find
[08:53] <Keybuk> pitti: we've blamed you for all that's happened today
[08:53] <ogra> pitti, learn all about squashfs, QUICK !
[08:53] <infinity> Err, wait... The 25.1 Ubuntu livefs was the last one I build on king...
[08:53] <pitti> ouch, is it that bad?
[08:53] <infinity> mdz: I do have that chroot still.  Want a tarball of it?
[08:53] <mdz> infinity: absofuckinglutely
[08:53] <pitti> my tests from yesterday finally looked quite good after yesterday's fixes
[08:54] <ogra> pitti amd64 ubuntu live only ...
[08:54] <pitti> ogra: itz broken?
[08:54] <ogra> all others are fine 
[08:54] <mdz> pitti: kernel panics
[08:54] <mdz> pitti: squashfs related
[08:54] <Keybuk> mdz: I think I just managed to get a file listing
[08:54] <Keybuk> by just doing opendir/readdir (no stat)
[08:55] <mdz> Keybuk: as root or non-root?
[08:55] <infinity> pitti: You know squashfs inside and out, right?
[08:55] <Keybuk> mdz: root
[08:55] <pitti> infinity: of course, I could rewrite it in assembler while sleeping
[08:55] <mdz> Keybuk: yep, me too
[08:55] <infinity> mdz: ^^^
[08:55] <infinity> MAKE PITTI FIX IT.
[08:55] <Keybuk> mdz: find -ls has pretty much worked
[08:56] <Keybuk> ok, so we have a contents list of 20060524.1
[08:56] <infinity> pitti: You should know better than to tarnish your VAC with work.
[08:56] <Keybuk> OH, BUT OF COURSE I CANNOT UNMOUNT IT NOW
[08:56] <infinity> Keybuk: Cause one of your many cats or lses has hung.
[08:56] <BenC> mdz: sent
[08:56] <infinity> Keybuk: lsof will kindly remind you of that.
[08:57] <Keybuk> infinity: not that I can see
[08:57] <Keybuk> squashfs just won't let go
[08:57] <Keybuk> or, possible, HAS let go
[08:57] <Keybuk> SUB time!
[08:58] <infinity> mdz: chinstrap:~adconrad/chroot-livecd.tgz
[09:01] <tseng> hiya jdub 
[09:01] <jdub> yo tseng 
[09:01] <mdz> BenC: what do I put in kernel.printk to get the squashfs messages on the console?
[09:01] <Keybuk> jdub: are they not obeying your every command and whim?
[09:01] <jdub> no
[09:01] <jdub> they're being unruly children
[09:03] <mdz> BenC: never mind, got it
[09:04] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/24.1-ls.txt
[09:04] <Keybuk> vs.
[09:04] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/24-ls.txt
[09:05] <ogra> got a diff as well ? 
[09:06] <Keybuk> diff it yourself! :)
[09:08] <Riddell> mdz, ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseCandidateAnnouncement
[09:09] <Riddell> the edubuntu homepage is looking very nice these days
[09:10] <ogra> yep, even its still WIP
[09:10] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/diff.txt
[09:10] <ogra> but i can borrow you highvoltage if you want a new css for kubuntu :)
[09:13] <infinity> I blame ttf-arphic-uming
[09:13] <Keybuk> infinity: with knowledge or without?
[09:13] <infinity> None whatsoever.
[09:13] <infinity> Waitaminute.
[09:13] <infinity> Nah.
[09:14] <infinity> There's no chance that /usr/share/example-content/Experience\ ubuntu.ogg and /usr/share/example-content/Ubuntu\ Sax.ogg are the only two files in the entire filesystem with spaces in the names, is there?
[09:14] <infinity> (Cause they're both new in this diff)
[09:14] <Keybuk> infinity: they are, actually
[09:14] <Keybuk> actually, no, they're not
[09:14] <Keybuk> there's some in /usr/share/acpi-support
[09:15] <infinity> Okay, then that's probably a red herring.
[09:15] <giftnudel> is it one of the files in /var/lib/dpkg that's where the problem appeared, right?
[09:15] <infinity> Stuck out like a sore thumb in the diff, though.
[09:16] <infinity> giftnudel: No.
[09:16] <ogra> does anybody else find it weird that several directorys changed size without having any changes in them ? 
[09:16] <Keybuk> so, I'm going to upgrade ttf-arphic-uming in the chroot
[09:16] <giftnudel> ogra: i did
[09:16] <Keybuk> ogra: could just be a sideffect of squashfs losing the will to live
[09:16] <ogra> yes, but still, its quite noticeable
[09:18] <infinity> Uhm, did libapm1 really stop shipping a postrm in that window, or is this just another "the filesystem is lying" thing? :)
[09:19] <Keybuk> infinity: oh, that's quite odd, given it allegedly wasn't upgraded
[09:19] <infinity> Must be the latter.
[09:19] <mdz> BenC: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/squashfs-dmesg
[09:19] <mdz> that's a log of a crash with SQUASHFS_TRACE on
[09:20] <Keybuk> previous.svg ?
[09:20] <mdz> Keybuk: icons
[09:20] <Keybuk> mdz: totem?
[09:20] <Keybuk> ubiq-artwork?
[09:20] <mdz> Keybuk: Tango / Tangerine
[09:20] <mdz> ubuntu-artwork
[09:20] <Keybuk> meh, that wasn't updated :-/
[09:20] <mdz> Keybuk: are you able to trigger a crash with any of that stuff?
[09:21] <Keybuk> mdz: I'm trying to build a filesystem that crashes from 20060524
[09:21] <infinity> I still really want to blame example-content, and those files with the spaces in the names, but that's probably just the UNIX elitist in me talking.
[09:21] <mdz> Keybuk: I have infinity's tarball
[09:21] <mdz> Keybuk: so I can get a full file listing from that
[09:21] <mdz> Keybuk: I want to compare that to 20060524
[09:21] <Keybuk> mdz: infinity's tarball crashes, yes?
[09:21] <Keybuk> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/24-ls.txt
[09:21] <infinity> Keybuk: It's a tarball of the exact chroot that 25.1 was built from.
[09:21] <Keybuk> that's the content (ish) of 24
[09:22] <mdz> Keybuk: yes, it does
[09:22] <BenC> mdz: reading through it
[09:23] <Keybuk> infinity: e-c is on kubuntu though :-/
[09:24] <BenC>                                 TRACE("Filldir returned less than 0\n");
[09:24] <BenC>                                 goto finish;
[09:24] <BenC> I wonder if that should error out somehow instead
[09:25] <infinity> Keybuk: And kubuntu was fine?  Poop.
[09:25] <infinity> Keybuk: I can still dream, can't I?
[09:25] <infinity> In fact, maybe I should go do that right now.
[09:25] <infinity> Hit the hay and dream that example content was to blame and we fixed it and then we all went out for ice cream, skipping hand-in-hand.
[09:27] <ogra> ice cream is good 
[09:27] <yuriy> poke YokoZar
[09:28] <Keybuk> infinity: it wasn't ttf-arphic-uming
[09:28] <Keybuk> sorry
[09:28] <mdz> Keybuk: your'e going package-by-package?
[09:29] <Keybuk> mdz: why not?
[09:29] <mdz> Keybuk: a binary search would be quicker
[09:29] <Keybuk> binary search of what?
[09:29] <mdz> the set of packages changed
[09:30] <mdz> do half, then do the other half, see if it's even going to lead anywhere
[09:30] <Keybuk> oh, I guess
[09:30] <Keybuk> there's only 5 of them though
[09:30] <mdz> sucks to try one by one only to find it fails on the last step, and only upgrading that package doesn't trigger the bug
[09:30] <mdz> well, ok
[09:30] <mdz> then later we get to do the same thing with files!
[09:31] <BenC> mdz: I sent another module
[09:32] <BenC> I want to see the value that filldir is returning
[09:32] <fabbione> who was pinging me before??? the nick has been lost in the scrollback
[09:33] <Keybuk> I like this computer
[09:33] <Keybuk> it can keep entire ISO filesystems in its page cache
[09:33] <infinity> 09:02 < sfllaw> fabbione: Ping?
[09:33] <infinity> fabbione: "/lastlog fabbione" is your friend.
[09:34] <fabbione> infinity: also on xchat?
[09:34] <Keybuk> fabbione: yes
[09:34] <fabbione> so it seems
[09:34] <fabbione> neat
[09:34] <fabbione> thanks
[09:34] <infinity> You use xchat? :)
[09:34] <fabbione> sfllaw: pong?
[09:34] <infinity> Console users are dropping like flies...
[09:35] <fabbione> infinity: i still use BX for other stuff
[09:37] <mdz> Keybuk: garrr
[09:37] <Keybuk> mdz: avast!
[09:37] <mdz> Keybuk: the sizes of directories in squashfs show up differently than the tarball extracted onto ext3
[09:38] <Keybuk> mdz: yes, I noticed that too :)
[09:38] <Keybuk> so did ogra
[09:38] <Keybuk> also there's a postrm missing
[09:38] <pitti> good luck, guys! /me crosses fingers
[09:40] <Keybuk> oh, interesting
[09:40] <Keybuk> ok, now adding just that one package crashed it
[09:40] <Keybuk> let's try making one without that package
[09:40] <Keybuk> but with all the others
[09:40] <mdz> squashfs also doesn't do the hardlink count properly
[09:40] <sfllaw> fabbione: The reason I pinged you has been addressed.
[09:40] <sfllaw> fabbione: But thanks.
[09:41] <fabbione> sfllaw: no problem.
[09:41] <infinity> Keybuk: Which package?
[09:41] <infinity> Keybuk: The suspense is killing me.
[09:41] <Keybuk> infinity: I'm not going to tell you until you've slept ;)
[09:42] <infinity> Keybuk: I'm not going to sleep until you tell me. :)
[09:42] <Keybuk> besides, I need to double-confirm that it is this package
[09:42] <Keybuk> oh, alright
[09:42] <Keybuk> if you must known
[09:42] <Keybuk> example-content
[09:42] <infinity> I WIN!
[09:43] <ogra> infinity, pfft, you said ttf-arphic-uming first
[09:43] <giftnudel> hehe
[09:43] <mdz> Keybuk: 17->19?
[09:44] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah
[09:44] <mdz> Keybuk: does it crash even if you upgrade only that package?
[09:44] <Keybuk> mdz: that's what I'm trying now
[09:44] <Keybuk> I'm making a root with only that package
[09:44] <Keybuk> and making a root with all the others
[09:44] <Keybuk> one should crash, the other should not
[09:45] <Keybuk> I might, for kicks, also make a root with just that package unpacked and no other file s;)
[09:45] <BenC> mdz: Did you try that new module yet?
[09:45] <ogra> hmm, either someone cheats or seb128 is secretly testing edubuntu ... there are a bunch of seb128:PASS suddenly in my edubuntu table
[09:45] <infinity> ogra: Nah, I said example-content when the problem FIRST came up.  Something about "maybe the compression algorithm is choking on the encoding of some file in example-content"
[09:46] <infinity> ogra: I only hedged my bet on the font thing recently. :)
[09:46] <Keybuk> infinity: that would be scary
[09:46] <Keybuk> I wonder why kubuntu works
[09:46] <infinity> Keybuk: But possible.
[09:46] <ogra> yeah
[09:46] <infinity> Keybuk: Block ordering and bad luck could make one work and the other choke.
[09:46] <infinity> Keybuk: Compression is a very touchy science.
[09:46] <ogra> infinity, ok, ok you win :)
[09:46] <Keybuk> infinity: at least this is replicable
[09:47] <mdz> BenC: not yet
[09:47] <infinity> Keybuk: Now, what happens if you take the contents of example-content, toss it in a directory, and mksquash that?
[09:47] <Keybuk> why doesn't mksquashfs have a --go-faster ?
[09:47] <mdz> BenC: it was luck of the draw that it didn't hang hard that time, but I'll try it again
[09:47] <Keybuk> infinity: I'm gonna do that in a minute
[09:47] <infinity> Keybuk: I assume it's fine, and only breaks in the context of the larger filesystem?
[09:48] <sivang> guys , will we still be open for bug fixes before final release?
[09:48] <infinity> sivang: Some.  Not many.
[09:48] <infinity> sivang: And only the most dire.
[09:48] <sivang> infinity: okay, makes sense.
[09:48] <Keybuk> sivang: how are you at squashfs?
[09:49] <sivang> Keybuk: I've probably only used it while booting the live cd ;-) so no bugfixing/development experience.
[09:51] <BenC> mdz: in your last dmesg, was squashfs module reloaded between these lines:
[09:51] <BenC> [4294781.238000]  SQUASHFS: Filldir returned less than 0
[09:51] <BenC> [4294790.122000]  squashfs: version 3.0prerelease (2006/1/24) Phillip Lougher
[09:52] <BenC> IOW, right before the crash
[09:52] <mdz> BenC: trying it with your new module now
[09:52] <mdz> logging over the network
[09:52] <mdz> we'll see what I get
[09:53] <Keybuk> sivang: Section 1.  RUN AWAY SCREAMING
[09:53] <sivang> Keybuk: heh
[09:53] <msikma> So guys, how are the RCs going?
[09:53] <sivang> hmm, wireless going down, bbl
[09:54] <Keybuk> msikma: mdz has quit in tears
[09:54] <mdz> har har
[09:54] <mdke> they seem to be published on releases.u.c
[09:54] <Keybuk> we're not going to release dapper now, and we're skipping straight to edgy
[09:54] <msikma> Great to hear :)
[09:54] <Keybuk> (how long until _that_ ends up on Slashdot?)
[09:55] <sivang> Keybuk: hehe
[09:55] <ogra> and we'll probably baxkport 2.6.16 and call it 2.6.15-23 to fix squashfs 
[09:55] <ogra> :P
[09:55] <fabbione> ogra: we already have -23
[09:55] <BenC> 2.6.15.99-pre0-78.34
[09:55] <ogra> -23.1 then :)
[09:55] <Keybuk> ogra: that would rely somewhat on squashfs being in the kernel mainline
[09:56] <kiko> -ubuntu666
[09:56] <kiko> is what this voodoo is sounding like
[09:56] <fabbione> hmmm rsync still hangs
[09:56] <BenC> well, 2.6.17.git is building on all arch's, so we can just shove that in dapper real quick
[09:57] <fabbione> BenC: GO GO GO GO
[09:57] <zul> hmm?
[09:58] <Keybuk> why does mksquashfs go faster in the final 300MB than in the first?
[09:58] <mdz> BenC: froze hard
[09:58] <ogra> zul, btw we'll need grub2 alongside with 2.6.17.git indeed ;)
[09:58] <BenC> mdz: any trace?
[09:58] <zul> ogra: you are evil
[09:58] <ogra> zul, only on thursdays
[09:59] <mdz> BenC: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/squashfs-trace-2.gz
[09:59] <zul> oh yeah it is thursday..
[09:59] <mdz> BenC: that's all I was able to get; not sure how close to the end it goes
[09:59] <BenC> Keybuk: first part is probably the all the metadata
[09:59] <Keybuk> right
[09:59] <Keybuk> so
[09:59] <Keybuk> Door #1, #2 or #3 ?
[10:00] <giftnudel_> 2
[10:00] <Keybuk> 2 it is ... testing
[10:00] <mdz> BenC: any joy in that trace?
[10:01] <BenC> zcat: squashfs-trace-2.gz: unexpected end of file
[10:01] <mdz> Keybuk: testing what?
[10:01] <BenC> sure it's all there?
[10:01] <Keybuk> #2 WORKED
[10:01] <Keybuk> and that was 20060524.1 with everything except example-content upgraded
[10:01] <Keybuk> so... next choice
[10:01] <Keybuk> Door #1 or #3 ?
[10:01] <zul> 1
[10:01] <mdz> BenC: my pipeline got killed
[10:01] <mdz> BenC: that is in fact all I have; can try again if it's no good
[10:01] <BenC> is there a file/dir called "no" in there somewhere...that's the last thing it shows
[10:02] <Keybuk> #1 also WORKED ... that was just example-content unpacked on its own
[10:02] <Keybuk> so #3 is last
[10:02] <BenC> nothing really sticks out in the trace though
[10:02] <Keybuk> which is 20060524 with only example-content upgraded
[10:02] <BenC> filldir() returning < 0 also seems irrelvant
[10:02] <Keybuk> (you watch this one work too)
[10:02] <Keybuk> oh thank the gods
[10:02] <Keybuk> it CRASHED
[10:03] <mdz> BenC: that's an xkb file
[10:03] <mdz> Keybuk: !!!
[10:03] <Keybuk> mdz: so, if all else fails, we just upgrade everything except example-content and ship it :)
[10:03] <mdz> Keybuk: mark will shit himself
[10:03] <BenC> crazy
[10:04] <mdz> I need to step out for a moment
[10:04] <mdz> back in a few
[10:04] <BenC> see, and people said "example content never hurt anything"
[10:04] <ogra> but why the heck does kubuntu work then ? 
[10:04] <giftnudel_> can you change something in example-content so that it's different?
[10:05] <Keybuk> ogra: it must be the block offset in the entire image it ends up at
[10:05] <Keybuk> or something equally kooky
[10:05] <_ion> What happened today in Lost probably causes the problem.
[10:05] <ogra> strange strange
[10:05] <Keybuk> _ion: what did happen today in Lost?
[10:05] <Keybuk> did they try and release Island 2.0 and it broke?
[10:08] <heno> eh, ok so I just stepped back in. Did my example-content stuff break the RC ? :-/
[10:08] <Keybuk> heno: yes, mdz is calling in the hit squad now
[10:08] <heno> ok, fair cop
[10:08] <Keybuk> it seems that upgrading the amd64 desktop images to e-c 19 causes them to fail to boot
[10:08] <Keybuk> due to a bug somewhere in squashfs
[10:09] <Keybuk> (or, most likely, mksquashfs and insufficient changing in squashfs)
[10:09] <Keybuk> but only the amd64 ubuntu image
[10:09] <elmo> java build systems... unreliable out-of-tree filesystems...
[10:09] <elmo> we have the best infrastructure EVAR
[10:09] <Keybuk> kubuntu appears fine, and i386/powerpc are fune
[10:09] <Keybuk> ...sysadmins who take down cdimage servers on release candidate day...
[10:09] <heno> hm perhaps the super-compressed PNGs are causing the second layer of compression to get corrupted
[10:10] <heno> perhaps it doesn't cope with really uncompressable stuff
[10:10] <dholbach> the strange thing is that kubuntu/amd64 seems to be happy
[10:11] <LaserJock> dholbach: you are here?
[10:11] <Keybuk> dholbach: I suspect we'll be testing that one CLOSELY
[10:11] <heno> not that strange if we've hit upon a rare squashfs bug
[10:11] <Keybuk> heno: the strange thing is that we can replicate it every damned time
[10:11] <infinity> Keybuk: Just to test one crackpot theory, can you take the chroot that breaks, rename those two files with spaces in them, and re-compress it?
[10:12] <heno> any other random change might make it go away again
[10:12] <dholbach> LaserJock: it seems so
[10:12] <infinity> Keybuk: I'm assuming it's not that, but I'm curious.
[10:12] <Keybuk> infinity: yes, I'm building some images with bits of the new e-c and stuff atm
[10:12] <Keybuk> infinity: see which one of them breaks
[10:12] <Keybuk> heno: I don't mind if it goes away
[10:12] <ogra> infinity, what are you doing here ? 
[10:12] <dholbach> infinity: maybe just rebuilding e-c fixes it
[10:13] <LaserJock> dholbach: I have a really quick UVFe question, if you have a sec
[10:13] <dholbach> LaserJock: which one is it?
[10:13] <infinity> ogra: I'm sleeping, of course.  Can't you tell?
[10:13] <mdz> infinity: bear in mind, it had a filename with a space in it before too
[10:14] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, like I said, "crackpot theory".  Doesn't stop the curiosity.
[10:14] <ogra> infinity, oh, youre dreaming us, right ?
[10:14] <LaserJock> dholbach: it isn't one yet. that is my question. pybliographer could use a UVFe IMO, but it would need an new upstream python-bibtex.
[10:14] <Keybuk> infinity: could you dream us up a patch
[10:14] <ogra> yeah
[10:14] <infinity> Keybuk: I've dreamed a lot of code in my life, unfortunately, I always forget the good bits when I wake up.
[10:14] <dholbach> LaserJock: write all the stuff we need in a bug report and file it
[10:15] <heno> but e-c-18 was before I compressed the book PNGs right?
[10:15] <Keybuk> heno: e-c-17 is the "known good"
[10:15] <LaserJock> dholbach: but you would consider a UVFe for something that is just needed for another UVFe?
[10:15] <ogra> heno, with pngcrush ? 
[10:15] <elmo> Keybuk: except we didn't, but otherwise good point :-P
[10:15] <mdz> RC announcement is away
[10:15] <dholbach> LaserJock: i can't say that without knowing what's going on
[10:15] <heno> ogra: yes and some manual gimp-foo
[10:15] <LaserJock> dholbach: fair enough, I'll write it up
[10:15] <LaserJock> dholbach: and leave you alone for a bit ;-)
[10:15] <Keybuk> if pngcrush broke it, there's going to be an archive accident, and it's going to be called releasecrush
[10:15] <ogra> heno, hwdb and update-manager had that as well and didnt cause failures
[10:16] <dholbach> LaserJock: ping slomo_ and siretart - if I'm away or something
[10:16] <heno> ogra: no but intermittent failures do that sort of thing by nature
[10:16] <ogra> LaserJock, and put some bucks in your pocket to pay a beer for dholbach in paris
[10:17] <LaserJock> ogra: yikes, I spent all my beer money on getting an expadited passport
[10:18] <ulaas> hi what happened to f-stop?
[10:18] <ulaas> i cannot find it in the dapper repo
[10:18] <tseng> its f-spot
[10:18] <tseng> and it's right -> there
[10:19] <ulaas> i am on medication :)
[10:20] <ulaas> ok how about a beagle frontend for gnome
[10:20] <tseng> how about beagle-search
[10:20] <Amaranth> uh
[10:20] <tseng> can you please take these questions to #ubuntu in the future
[10:20] <tseng> it is release crunch time
[10:20] <Amaranth> ulaas: when you have beagle installed go to Places->Search
[10:21] <ulaas> tseng: ok/
[10:21] <tseng> thanks.
[10:21] <ulaas> Amaranth: done
[10:29] <mdz> BenC: what's the next step in tracking the kernel side of this?
[10:31] <BenC> mdz: Me getting this iso so I can do some tests myself, adding in some printk's
[10:31] <BenC> which should be in about 2 hours
[10:32] <mdz> ok; I turn into a pumpkin in about that long
[10:32] <mdz> so please update me via email
[10:33] <Keybuk> mdz: to add insult to it all
[10:33] <Keybuk> it's no particular file of example-content
[10:33] <Keybuk> if you split the package in half, both halves work
[10:34] <Keybuk> if you put both halves together, *boom*
[10:34] <kiko> it must be RC week. we never have this sort of problem on regular weeks.
[10:35] <fabbione> kiko: we didn't have LP for RC before.. that must be it
[10:35] <Keybuk> mdz: if you take infinity's tarball, downgrade e-c to 17, then squash and mount -- does it work?
[10:35] <mdz> BenC: I'm doing another trace to the console in vmware in hopes of getting a screenshot
[10:35] <mdz> gah, it just gave me that hardware reset dialog
[10:35] <mdz> trashes the console
[10:36] <mdz> kiko: we've built over 1000 of these and this is the first one known to have a problem
[10:36] <Keybuk> mdz: another option may be to not "pngcrush" e-c, and see whether it goes away
[10:37] <mdz> Keybuk: we also have a batch of new stuff coming into the archive which might ruffle its feathers enough to work again
[10:37] <Keybuk> the "MAXIMUM ZLIB" may be breaking it
[10:37] <mdz> Keybuk: if you care to upload a new example-content, now would be a good time
[10:37] <Keybuk> mdz: we can hope, aye
[10:37] <kiko> so something inside example-content is making squashfs blow up?
[10:37] <mdz> kiko: yes
[10:37] <Keybuk> mdz: I don't have a new example-c
[10:37] <mdz> directly or indirectly, it's unclear
[10:37] <kiko> new icons perhaps?
[10:37] <Keybuk> ontent to upload
[10:37] <Keybuk> kiko: it's not a direct file, sadly
[10:38] <kiko> yeah, I picked that up
[10:38] <Keybuk> or it's a specific file-appearing-at-a-specific-block problem
[10:38] <kiko> Keybuk, can you reorder the files during generation?
[10:38] <kiko> to see if it makes any difference?
[10:38] <Keybuk> kiko: seems to, yes
[10:39] <kiko> enough to bandaid the problem for tonight? matt will need to sleep at some point
[10:40] <kiko> Keybuk, or do we really want to chase down the bug at this point?
[10:41] <elmo> kiko: not that I'm volunteering to help, but the alternative to not chasing it down, is trying to release with a 'desktop CD' that might explode on any change
[10:42] <kiko> elmo, yeah, I realize, but it could also be that this bug has always been in there. I guess that's wishful thinking though
[10:42] <mdz> kiko: we've already released a known-good build for RC
[10:43] <mdz> but we still need to solve this problem for final
[10:43] <kiko> mdz, it is deterministic at least, right?
[10:43] <mdz> kiko: not exactly
[10:44] <mdz> it fairly reliably breaks, but in different ways
[10:46] <mdz> it seems like it must be corrupting some state which later brings it down
[10:47] <kiko> which means it'll be hard to debug, garr
[10:49] <jordi> mdz, did my ubuntu-announce post go through at all this morning?
[10:50] <BenC> wow, now that I'm 85% done with the download, it speeds up to 250k/s
[10:50] <mdke> jordi: it didn't go through, afaics
[10:50] <jordi> sigh
[10:51] <BenC> mdz: I should have an image shortly...I'll begin working on it to see if I can narrow this down quickly
[10:51] <mdke> jordi: you might need jdub/majo
[10:51] <mdke> k*
[10:51] <jordi> I'm trying
[10:52] <KaiL> just grabbing for last critical bugs, found this one: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/41061
[10:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41061 in linux-source-2.6.15 "aic7xxx fails to load" [Major,Confirmed]  
[11:00] <FliesLikeABrick> who is in charge of the torrents for the RC?
[11:02] <ogra> mdz, hmm, you didnt use the announcement wikipage text ? 
[11:03] <FliesLikeABrick> the ubuntu-6.06-rc-desktop-i386.iso.torrent  appears to be broken, the tracker rejects requests for it
[11:05] <elmo> I've kicked the torrent server
[11:05] <elmo> which is the best software evar.  beating out even oo.o's build system and unionfs
[11:05] <thom> heh
[11:06] <FliesLikeABrick> I was attempting to mirror the latest torrents on one of my 100mbit colocated machines (like I usually do around release time) but that one torrent was giving me a hard time, I'm gonna try it again
[11:06] <elmo> yeah baby, WARTY'S torrent server.  feel the CUTTING EDGE.
[11:06] <mdke> lol
[11:06] <elmo> FliesLikeABrick: give it a couple of minutes to settle
[11:06] <thom> dude, don't be dissing my 5am hack job
[11:06] <thom> :-)
[11:07] <FliesLikeABrick> elmo what do you mean?
[11:07] <FliesLikeABrick> I get a specific rejected message from the tracker:  ERROR:
[11:07] <FliesLikeABrick> rejected by tracker - Requested download is not authorized for use with this tracker.
[11:07] <FliesLikeABrick> only for that one RC torrent
[11:07] <elmo> FliesLikeABrick: there are a lot of files for the tracker and seeder to work through, it takes a couple of minutes for them to settle after I restart it
[11:07] <FliesLikeABrick> alright elkbuntu 
[11:07] <FliesLikeABrick> elmo *
[11:08] <FliesLikeABrick> didn't know for sure if you were involved in the torrents or whether you were just speculating ;)
[11:08] <elmo> I thought "I've kicked the torrent server" was pretty explicitly not speculation, but I'm slow that way
[11:08] <ogra> elmo, dont say anything against warty, it still runs my old sony laptop fine :)
[11:09] <elmo> ogra: dude, I don't want to know about you running distros that aren't security supported
[11:09] <zyga> elmo: LOL :)
[11:09] <FliesLikeABrick> elmo I thought so too, but it has been a long day and it slipped from my memory about 15 seconds after reading it ;)
[11:09] <mdke> yeah, who cares about the torrents, as long as ogra's laptop has security updates
[11:10] <ogra> elmo, pfft security ... 
[11:10] <elmo> pfft accounts in the DC ...
[11:11] <elmo> :-P
[11:11] <sivang> heh
[11:11] <dholbach> ogra: do the upgrade! to hoary! now! :)
[11:12] <zyga> warty seems so long time ago :)
[11:12] <zyga> even thought it's just a second away really :)
[11:12] <zyga> have you guys ever thought about that?
[11:12] <ogra> dholbach, i doubt that 500MHz/128Mb/3G machine would survive that
[11:12] <spacey> warty is less old then winxp, and everyone still uses that :p
[11:13] <ogra> i keep it for historical reasons :)
[11:13] <zyga> ogra: bah, I run dapper on p2 199Mhz laptop :)
[11:13] <heno> my father installed warty about two weeks ago, because he came across an old CD I had sent him. And he was very pleased :)
[11:13] <KaiL> ogra, the disk should be the only problem ;)
[11:13] <zyga> but I bought 2x128 :)
[11:14] <ogra> KaiL, yep, especially on upgrades ...
[11:14] <KaiL> Celeron 433, 128MB - currently on hoary, should get dapper after release.. my K6-2/500 was even faster with dapper
[11:14] <dholbach> I read "128" and thought "Oh, Sb's there - finally..."
[11:14] <zyga> :)
[11:15] <zyga> 2x128 - double the seb power :D
[11:15] <ogra> dholbach, someone added some PASS tags aside his name in the edubuntu table ...
[11:15] <dholbach> was that me?
[11:15] <ogra> so either someone is cheating or he did test today
[11:15] <ogra> dholbach, dunno, didnt check, just noted it when i added my PASS :)
[11:16] <dholbach> ogra: sfllaw is the Testing/Current master
[11:16] <Keybuk> oh, well, that's good news
[11:16] <Keybuk> mdz: so I got a little hacky userland squashfs reader going
[11:16] <Keybuk> it works with everything but the broken image
[11:16] <Keybuk> where it core dumps
[11:16] <Keybuk> this is good
[11:17] <dholbach> KaiL: fix bugs
[11:17] <FliesLikeABrick> I've got some older boxes I'll be hooking up for bug testing 
[11:17] <KaiL> I'm to stupid for coding
[11:17] <FliesLikeABrick> a couple quad 200 boxes
[11:18] <KaiL> oh, wait, there was one... good old Asus A7V133 seams to dislike the SMP code in -k7 kernel
[11:18] <KaiL> at least with the -22 version
[11:19] <heno> Keybuk: which image is broken?
[11:19] <ogra> sigh ... still 1h to go for the DVD download
[11:19] <ogra> heno, 20060625 amd64 desktop
[11:19] <ogra> (ubuntu indeed)
[11:19] <heno> oh, you mean CD image not picture
[11:20] <ogra> yes
[11:20] <ogra> unless there are .squashfs pictures nowadays :)
[11:20] <zyga> bah, sun's download servers are down just today as I need them!
[11:21] <ogra> zyga, download something else then ... ubuntu for example ;)
[11:21] <sfllaw> dholbach: Thanks for testing!
[11:22] <FliesLikeABrick> I'm gonna spend the night trying to organize my torrents and seed most or all of the RC images, I've got 1000 TB of bandwidth to burn in the next couple days
[11:22] <FliesLikeABrick> er
[11:22] <FliesLikeABrick> GB
[11:22] <zyga> ogra: I want java card technical spec, for 2.2.0
[11:22] <sfllaw> FliesLikeABrick: That would be good.
[11:22] <thom> you have a petabyte of bandwidth? score.
[11:22] <ogra> zyga, well, we *have* sun java in dapper :)
[11:22] <dholbach> de rien, sfllaw
[11:22] <FliesLikeABrick> sfllaw it is what I tend to do towards the end of every month and during every release of a flight or stable release
[11:23] <sfllaw> fabbione: Have you had a chance to run the Release Candidate images against your Niagara box?
[11:23] <FliesLikeABrick> once some thing in my life calm down, I'm going to set  up a box for an official mirror
[11:23] <crimsun> zyga: it's up for me. Do you need 2.2.0 specifically, or can your app be forward-ported to 2.2.1?
[11:23] <BenC> mdz: Done downloading, I'll start checking into it now
[11:23] <tseng> FliesLikeABrick: located where?
[11:24] <zyga> crimsun: I just want the spec and enought info to code a vm emulator
[11:24] <zyga> s/enought/enough/
[11:24] <FliesLikeABrick> tseng 100mbit in the XO Communications datacenter in Chicago
[11:24] <zyga> crimsun: I digg virtual machnies :)
[11:24] <tseng> FliesLikeABrick: cool, i am in DE
[11:24] <zyga> crimsun: if you have the spec I'd love to ask you for a copy :)
[11:24] <FliesLikeABrick> the most I can do now is seed torrents at different parts throughout the month, I can't do anything permanent just yet
[11:26] <zyga> crimsun: the download server is working for you?
[11:26] <crimsun> zyga: 403 atm
[11:26] <heno> Keybuk: I've put the original book images up here http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/examplecontent/book/original/
[11:27] <zyga> same here
[11:27] <heno> It might be interesting to roll an image with those
[11:27] <heno> and then pngcrush them and try again
[11:27] <heno> to see if that triggers it
[11:27] <Keybuk> heno: at this point, I suspect it would be time better spent debugging squashfs
[11:28] <FliesLikeABrick> because of the fact that I can't do anything permanent [as in mirroring]  just yet, is there anything I can do to help at the time of the actual dapper release, aside from seeding torrents?
[11:28] <heno> Keybuk: true
[11:28] <mdke> heno: did you use the latest version of pngcrush? It got a UVF a couple of days ago
[11:28] <mdke> the old one was apparently quite broken, no idea if it could be related to your problem
[11:28] <Keybuk> can somebody explain to me why kernel people do
[11:29] <Keybuk> #define macro(...) do { ... } while (0)
[11:29] <ogra> mdke, the versions before didnt run on dapper
[11:29] <Keybuk> rather than just #define macro(...) ...
[11:29] <Keybuk> BenC: do you know?
[11:29] <mdke> ogra: ah, "quite broken" then :D
[11:29] <zyga> Keybuk: to support if macro() else ..
[11:29] <ogra> mdke, it segfaulted before doing anything
[11:29] <mdke> right
[11:29] <zyga> Keybuk: basically the only way to make macro behave like a block of code
[11:30] <zyga> Keybuk: (when the macro is more than one statement)
[11:30] <heno> mdke: v1.6.2-1
[11:30] <Keybuk> zyga: I don't see why that wouldn't work anyway
[11:30] <Keybuk> they do this when it _is_ only one statement
[11:30] <Keybuk> which is what confuses me
[11:30] <FliesLikeABrick> elmo may I PM you for a minute or two?
[11:30] <heno> instaled a few days ago
[11:30] <Keybuk> there's a patch here which explicitly adds the do/while around a single printf()
[11:30] <zyga> Keybuk: hmm, then I don't know - consistency maybe?
[11:30] <mdke> heno: ok, looks like the latest one
[11:30] <Keybuk> BenC: for you to narrow your search -- if you mksquashfs -no-duplicates ... it works
[11:31] <Keybuk> and the core dump I made was in duplicate processing
[11:32] <Keybuk> ogra: heh, the reason the directory counts are all off is because squashfs is missing . and ..
[11:32] <ogra> oh
[11:33] <crimsun> Keybuk: probably for uniformity, but yeah, for just one statement it seems daft
[11:36] <jcole> one of my dapper systems keep crashing on certain random screensavers, how do i disable the problem ones in dapper? with breezy, i could do that... looks like xscreesaver in breezy, gnome-screensaver in dapper... should users just install xscreensaver as workaround?
[11:36] <ogra> sudo apt-get remove xscreensaver-gl
[11:37] <Keybuk> BenC: your problem will be the lack of bounds checking
[11:37] <Keybuk> BenC: most likely in the checksum checking code
[11:37] <Keybuk> BenC: it just eats bytes, way past the end of the loop device
[11:37] <dieman> heh, wow
[11:37] <dieman> new release has the mirror humming already
[11:37] <FliesLikeABrick> I expect my seed of the alternate-i386 to be uploading quite a bit once it is done
[11:38] <dieman> | ubuntu-6.06-rc-alternate-i386.iso             688.6 MB   0    B/s   1.6 MB/s |
[11:38] <FliesLikeABrick> dieman who manages the mirrors?
[11:38] <dieman> depends on which mirror
[11:38] <dieman> <-- mirror.cs.umn.edu
[11:38] <FliesLikeABrick> I mean the overall list and such
[11:38] <dieman> thats more via the wiki
[11:38] <dieman> and then they pick out which hosts
[11:38] <FliesLikeABrick> ah
[11:38] <dieman> so whomever writes the release information,e tc.
[11:38] <dieman> i thik
[11:38] <dieman> think
[11:39] <FliesLikeABrick> I hope to be running a mirror in the near future, all I can do for now is lots of torrent seeding
[11:39] <FliesLikeABrick> I'm trying to get my school's ACM chapter to start a ubuntu mirror (rpi.edu), I'll probably donate some hardware to the cause
[11:39] <dieman> yah
[11:39] <dieman> you should try mirror.cs
[11:39] <dieman> it should be obscenely fast for you
[11:40] <FliesLikeABrick> I don't live on campus ;)
[11:40] <dieman> ahh
[11:40] <dieman> another argument to live in the dorms :)
[11:40] <FliesLikeABrick> I've got a couple extra 1U servers that I've retired that I'm going to hand to the ACM
[11:41] <FliesLikeABrick> I work at RPI's computing helpdesk, so I can do my updates when I'm on shift there.  we've got a couple 100mbit hubs there that go right downstairs to our datacenter
[11:41] <dieman> yah
[11:41] <FliesLikeABrick> (about 15 feet away)
[11:41] <Burgwork> FliesLikeABrick, dieman can you guys move to another channel and keep the chatter down in this one?
[11:41] <jcole> ogra: some of the non-gl ones crash the system too.. i think it has to do with 16-bit color
[11:41] <FliesLikeABrick> yes Burgwork will do
[11:41] <Burgwork> FliesLikeABrick, thanks
[11:42] <jcole> ogra: all the opengl ones actually work fine, lol
[11:42] <FliesLikeABrick> jcole if you're looking for help with using dapper, #ubuntu+1 is the right place for you
[11:43] <ogra> jcole, sudo apt-get remove xscreensaver-data ;)
[11:44] <ogra> and keep -gl
[11:48] <sivang> Keybuk: okay, howto is a bit too userish in nature, but where can I help with squashfs ?
[11:49] <FliesLikeABrick> elmo the torrent for alternate-i386 is still grumpy
[11:49] <Keybuk> sivang: heh, is ok :)
[11:49] <Keybuk> this is clearly a deep bug :(
[11:49] <Keybuk> mdz: 3.0 doesn't fix it
[11:53] <mdz> Keybuk: I'm unsure as to whether that's a good thing
[11:53] <mdz> BenC: any luck?
[11:54] <FliesLikeABrick> er elmo I meant desktop-i386
[11:55] <ogra> mdz, was it intentional that you dropped the edubuntu ltsp upgrade link i added to the wiki from the real announcement ?
[11:56] <Keybuk> mdz: if you don't mind adding ~30MB to the current images, I can "cure" it with keeping example-content :)
[11:56] <Keybuk> (assuming it doesn't go away by itself)
[11:56] <mdz> ogra: I don't recall doing that
[11:56] <ogra> ok
[11:56] <mdz> Keybuk: keeping how?
[11:56] <ogra> was just wondering ...
[11:56] <Keybuk> mdz: mksquashfs -no-duplicates
[11:56] <mdz> ogra: perhaps you added it after I copied the announcement to email
[11:57] <mdz> Keybuk: mumblemumble
[11:57] <Keybuk> mdz: that's where the bug is
[11:57] <ogra> mdz, i added it after Riddell added his stuff
[11:57] <Keybuk> I've been able to narrow it down that much so far
[11:57] <ogra> shortly after you poked me to look at it
[11:58] <ogra> anyway, its not in, nobody injured, all fine, i just wanted to know if i did something wrong or my grammar was to bad :)
[12:00] <sivang> Keybuk: could you just toss me the malone report # for refrence and reading what solution invovled once you guys fix it? :) (couldn't find it on the radar)
[12:00] <Keybuk> sivang: there is no malone report
[12:00] <Keybuk> mdz: the interesting thing I've noted about this image is that the number of duplicates happens to be a power of 2
[12:00] <Keybuk> (8192)
[12:01] <Seveas> the real freaky thing about that is that Keybuk realized it's a power of 2 without thinking ;)
[12:01] <Keybuk> Seveas: anyone who spends much time around computers and can't to base 2 in their head is more freaky :)
[12:02] <Seveas> hehe
[12:04] <Keybuk> the even more interesting thing is that it allocates the table in 32,768 chunks
[12:04] <Keybuk> and that the size of the structure is 4 bytes
[12:05] <Keybuk> which co-incidentally means that 8192 entries would fall exactly on this boundary
[12:17] <ptlo> pygi: ping
[12:18] <pygi> ptlo, pong
[12:18] <ptlo> pygi: please drop by on #ubuntu-hr, thanks
[12:26] <dholbach> good night fellas
[12:27] <pygi> night dholbach 
 supported_versions: WARNING: Unknown Ubuntu release: 6.06LTS
 while running apt-get upgrade
[12:28] <kiko> weird.
[12:30] <dholbach> he should use the upgrsade tool
[12:30] <dholbach> upgrade
[12:36] <zyga> what is LTS? long term support?
[12:37] <Keybuk> zyga: Late to Ship
[12:37] <Keybuk> (yes, long term support)
[12:41] <BenC> mdz,Keybuk: what's the find command that triggers the oops
[12:41] <Keybuk> BenC: find / -type f -print0 | xargs -0 cat
[12:44] <BenC> boom
[12:52] <Keybuk> BenC: I still think bytes is getting -1 stuffed into it somehow
[12:57] <Keybuk> happily, the author doesn't appear to mind us using 2.2r2
[01:01] <sivang> Keybuk: this bug is an kernel oops when using the live cd basically?
[01:01] <Keybuk> sivang: yup
[01:04] <Keybuk> damn, I wish I hadn't eaten that chocolate earlier
[01:04] <Keybuk> could really do with the brainsugar now
[01:05] <ogra> *pudding too
[01:11] <Keybuk> BenC: I can't see anything suspicious in the inode table or the fragment table
[01:11] <Keybuk> all the numbers are "sane"
[01:11] <BenC> I think I see a fix in the latest source that would possibly be related to this
[01:11] <Keybuk> BenC: latest (3.0) still breaks
[01:12] <BenC> this is in the kernel driver
[01:12] <Keybuk> oh right, what's the kernel drive do?
[01:12] <Keybuk> this looks very much like mksquashfs has produced a busted filesystem
[01:12] <Keybuk> all the kernel driver can do is guard against that and reject it rather than panic, no?
[01:12] <BenC> -               unsigned int fragment;
[01:12] <BenC> +               long long fragment;
[01:12] <Keybuk> BenC: that's just the 3.0 change
[01:12] <Keybuk> he added support for >2GB files
[01:13] <BenC> I'm going to atleast try the latest driver and see if it does anything...you did try recreating the filesystem with the latest 3.0 final mksquashfs?
[01:13] <Keybuk> BenC: yes
[01:13] <Keybuk> 3.0 final unsquashfs cannot read it
[01:14] <BenC> crazy, then that does sound like userspace
[01:14] <Keybuk> and I made a 2.2r2 unsquashfs myself, which cannot read the 2.2r2-produced one either
[01:15] <infinity> Keybuk: You're still tooling away at this?
[01:16] <Keybuk> infinity: yes
[01:16] <BenC> where is unsquashfs 2.2?
[01:16] <Keybuk> BenC: hang on, will paste it
[01:16] <BenC> unsquashing is a quicker way to find this than crashing my kernel over and over
[01:18] <Keybuk> hmm, why can I not copy/paste into vnc?
[01:18] <Keybuk> *sulk*
[01:21] <Keybuk> mksquashfs: write_fragment_table: fragment 6077, start_block 21d8e1d3, size 16814844
[01:21] <Keybuk> that's an _awfully_ large fragment
[01:21] <Keybuk> given they're limited to 32768 :)
[01:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39482 in nautilus "nautilus tries to move when dragging and dropping from read-only folders, instead of copying" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39482
[01:24] <Keybuk> BenC: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/unsquashfs.c
[01:24] <Keybuk> build it in the squashfs-tools dir by just stealing the mksquashfs link line
[01:32] <BenC> Keybuk: thanks
[01:33] <HiddenWolf> sivang: there have been a couple of fixes regarding DnD upstream, there are also bugs when copying to/from the burn:// uri and others.
[01:41] <Keybuk> hmm
[01:41] <Keybuk> though I still think that fragment size is suspicious ... they exist in the working version too
[01:43] <BenC> you got sigsegv from unsquashfs, right?
[01:44] <Keybuk> right
[01:45] <Keybuk> mksquashfs: Writing fragment 3456, uncompressed size 63833, compressed size 63833
[01:45] <Keybuk> mksquashfs: write_fragment_table: fragment 3456, start_block 1498e6f2, size 16841049
[01:45] <Keybuk> ^ what's wrong with this picture? :)
[01:46] <zul> un the size?
[01:47] <Keybuk> the size jumped a few bytes
[01:47] <BenC> compressed and uncompressed are the same
[01:47] <Keybuk> BenC: yeah
[01:48] <Keybuk> note the size in the second line too
[01:48] <BenC> yeah, odd
[01:48] <Keybuk> that's got 1 << 24 |d into it ... which appears to be SQUASHFS_COMPRESSED_BIT_BLOCK
[01:51] <Keybuk> while all these things are a bit odd, without knowing the format properly
[01:51] <Keybuk> there's nothing that yet stands out that's not also present in the same log for the working one
[01:52] <Keybuk> there's more blocks of 1 << 24 | 65536
[01:55] <infinity> Riddell: Not still around, are you?
[01:55] <ogra> morning infinity 
[01:55] <infinity> ogra: Or evening..
[01:56] <ogra> ohoel, right :)
[01:56] <ogra> heh
[02:00] <^ohoel> ogra: you're a good reminder I should checkin to see if any of my pet issues/features are discussed though :)
[02:06] <Keybuk> BenC: apparently my hunch is right
[02:06] <Keybuk> those should not be >65535
[02:06] <BenC> Keybuk: I've almost isolated exactly where it is crashing...down to 3 lines of code
[02:07] <Keybuk> oh, I see what's happening here
[02:07] <Keybuk> it's not handling gzip returning a larger piece of data properly
[02:07] <Keybuk> I can see what he's _trying_ to do
[02:08] <Keybuk> (not compress it)
[02:08] <BenC> that would explain the zlib_fs errors in the kernel traces
[02:08] <BenC> and yes, the crash is occuring on blocks marked uncompressed, I can confirm that
[02:08] <BenC> fragments I mean
[02:08] <Keybuk> yeah, they're marked uncompressed, but still have the COMPRESSED flag in the size, so are about 16MB too big :p
[02:08] <BenC> wow, that would explain a lot :)
[02:09] <BenC> so the size field has flags encoded into it?
[02:09] <Keybuk> look at mangle() in mksquashfs.c
[02:09] <Keybuk> it appears to have, yes
[02:09] <Keybuk> if (uncompressed || c_byte >= size)
[02:09] <Keybuk> what it does here is odd
[02:09] <Keybuk> it undoes compress2 by memcpy()ing back over the uncompressed data
[02:10] <Keybuk> then returns the uncompressed size or'd with 1<<24
[02:10] <Keybuk> I think he really means to REMOVE that flag ;)
[02:11] <Keybuk> if I change | to &~ ...
[02:12] <BenC> so: size = size & ~(SQUASHFS_COMPRESSED_BIT_BLOCK | SQUASHFS_COMPRESSED_BIT);
[02:12] <Keybuk> oh, no
[02:12] <Keybuk> "bit is set if block is uncompressed"
[02:12] <BenC> that's counterintuitive
[02:12] <Keybuk> yeah, it's kooky
[02:13] <Keybuk> you have the fragment reading code there
[02:13] <Keybuk> what's the matching equivalent ... does it ever try and check for or remove 1<<15 or 1<<24 from the fragment size?
[02:13] <Keybuk> how does it know that the fragment is compressed or uncompressed?
[02:14] <Keybuk> (in the kernel)
[02:14] <BenC> the kernel driver doesn't use it very intuitively either
[02:15] <BenC> it or's SQUASHFS_COMPRESSED_BIT_BLOCK with a few values like...
[02:15] <BenC> sizeof(struct squashfs_super_block) | SQUASHFS_COMPRESSED_BIT_BLOCK
[02:15] <BenC> passing that value to some other function
[02:16] <BenC> it doesn't ever seem to reference it in the code for actual data
[02:17] <BenC> wait, I forgot to check the headers...lots of macros in this code
[02:18] <BenC> yeah, if the flag is not there SQUASHFS_COMPRESSED() is true
[02:19] <BenC> so no flag == compressed
[02:23] <BenC> I think that was our misunderstanding of the flag :)
[02:23] <BenC> I wonder if it's possible for a valid compressed block/fragment to have a size that has that bit set
[02:23] <Keybuk> no, I don't think it's supposed to be
[02:23] <Keybuk> the max is 64K or so
[02:24] <BenC> it's crashing in duplicate() in unsquashfs
[02:24] <BenC> on an uncompressed fragment
[02:26] <Keybuk> hmm
[02:26] <Keybuk> get_checksum is called with l==0 where it crashes for me
[02:26] <Keybuk> or is that gdb just being unhelpful
[02:26] <Keybuk> I suspect the latter, actually
[02:28] <Keybuk> hmm
[02:28] <Keybuk> frg->index is WAYYYY to high
[02:31] <Keybuk> oh, that's odd
[02:31] <Keybuk> $7 = {inode_type = 2, mode = 493, uid = 0, guid = 255, mtime = 1145660290,
[02:31] <Keybuk>   start_block = 63, fragment = 4294967295, offset = 0, file_size = 791104,
[02:31] <Keybuk>   block_list = 0x7ffffffa37d8}
[02:31] <Keybuk> perfectly
[02:31] <Keybuk> plausible, until the fragment
[02:32] <kagou> great work men on RC :) first installation OK on my pc with desktop version, and now go for installation on notebook :)
[02:32] <Keybuk> or is that -1 ?
[02:35] <BenC> ah, yes, I get the same thing
[02:36] <BenC>         unsigned short fragment_checksum = get_checksum(read_from_buffer, &handle, frag_bytes);
[02:36] <BenC> from that call
[02:36] <BenC> in duplicate()
[02:37] <Keybuk> hmm
[02:37] <Keybuk> where it cores, is it fragment 7168 ?
[02:37] <Keybuk> (go up to add_file)
[02:37] <BenC> if l=0, how does it even get in the loop
[02:38] <HrdwrBoB> laps do not fly
[02:38] <HrdwrBoB> just so you know
[02:38] <Keybuk> BenC: gdb is being annoying and showing you the value on the stack, which was decremented within the function
[02:38] <Keybuk> (gdb) p fragment_table[7150] 
[02:38] <Keybuk> $33 = {start_block = 592072330, size = 9773}
[02:38] <Keybuk> (gdb) p fragment_table[7160] 
[02:38] <Keybuk> $34 = {start_block = 592237509, size = 8786}
[02:38] <Keybuk> (gdb) p fragment_table[7165] 
[02:38] <Keybuk> $39 = {start_block = 592281075, size = 8523}
[02:38] <Keybuk> (gdb) p fragment_table[7166] 
[02:38] <Keybuk> $40 = {start_block = 592289598, size = 8523}
[02:38] <Keybuk> (gdb) p fragment_table[7167] 
[02:38] <Keybuk> $41 = {start_block = 592298121, size = 8305}
[02:38] <Keybuk> (gdb) p fragment_table[7168] 
[02:38] <Keybuk> $42 = {start_block = 252536, size = 16777216}
[02:38] <Keybuk> (gdb) p fragment_table[7169] 
[02:38] <Keybuk> $43 = {start_block = 2842967835, size = 436639668}
[02:38] <Keybuk> (gdb) p fragment_table[7170] 
[02:38] <Keybuk> $35 = {start_block = 1396757455, size = 2895456946}
[02:38] <Keybuk> ...
[02:38] <Keybuk> hello table corruption
[02:40] <BenC> but that's the size with an "uncompressed flag"
[02:40] <BenC> right?
[02:40] <Keybuk> no, that's just buggered
[02:40] <BenC> uncompressed fragment, which is 1<<15
[02:40] <Keybuk> the start_block goes a bit silly
[02:40] <BenC> oh, yeah, I see that
[02:40] <Keybuk> it doesn't match what mksquashfs says it wrote
[02:40] <Keybuk> should be size=8548
[02:41] <wasabi__> Any awareness of some sort of guide about the steps that debootstrap goes through?
[02:41] <BenC> mine is way worse than yours
[02:41] <wasabi__> I'm needing to do them manually.
[02:41] <wasabi__> crossarch even
[02:42] <FliesLikeALap> [laps do not fly]  thanks for that tidbit HrdwrBoB, wasn't aware of that ;)
[02:45] <Keybuk> BenC: so, fragments are split amongst fragment indexes, which each hold 1024 fragments, right
[02:45] <Keybuk> 7168 happens to be the start of the 8th fragment
[02:45] <Keybuk> this image happens to have 8192 fragments
[02:45] <Keybuk> HELLO!
[02:46] <BenC> sounds like you are going somewhere with this :)
[02:46] <rpedro> of course, if I do 'umount -f <samba_mountpoint>' the problem goes away, but still is it possible to fix it in dapper?
[02:46] <Keybuk> BenC: the road to hell is paved with hardcoded array sizes
[02:46] <Keybuk> or, worse, hardcoded structure sizes
[02:47] <Keybuk> BenC: I have no idea, I'm just following a core dump to it's frightening conclusion
[02:47] <rpedro> hi, you didn't see my last 5 messages?
[02:47] <rpedro> I think I got disconnected...
[02:48] <Keybuk> BenC: why is SQUASHFS_METADATA_SIZE also 8192
[02:49] <BenC> Keybuk: have you tried mksquashfs -no-fragments ?
[02:49] <BenC> I wonder if that makes things worse
[02:49] <BenC> worse size wise that is
[02:50] <Keybuk> BenC: I tried -no-dups and the problem went away
[02:50] <Keybuk> but I think that just adjusted the number of fragments
[02:50] <BenC> that would make sense, since this occurs in duplicate()
[02:50] <BenC> -no-fragments probably fixes it too
[02:50] <Keybuk> yeah
[02:51] <Keybuk> wow this is a complicated bit of math
[02:52] <BenC> #2  0x00000000004070d9 in add_file (start=592596341, file_bytes=0, block_listp=0x7fff077030d0,
[02:52] <BenC>     blocks=0, fragment=7168, offset=0, bytes=37730) at unsquashfs.c:1038
[02:52] <Keybuk> (((8192 * sizeof (struct squashfs_fragment_entry)) + 8192 - 1) / 8192) * sizeof (unsigned int)
[02:52] <BenC> ok, now that I'm on amd64 instead of ppc, I am getting the same backtrace as you :)
[02:53] <Keybuk> that struct is 8 in size, int is 4
[02:56] <BenC> which == 32
[02:56] <BenC> not sure why that whole bit is there
[02:57] <Keybuk> really?  it doesn't divide evenly for me
[02:57] <BenC> passing it into C produces 32
[02:57] <Keybuk> you end up with "multiple of 8192 minus 1 divided by 8192"
[02:57] <BenC> (gdb) p fragment_table[7165] 
[02:57] <BenC> $1 = {start_block = 3359632458, size = 112323933}
[02:57] <BenC> (gdb) p fragment_table[7160] 
[02:57] <BenC> $2 = {start_block = 3617790435, size = 317460625}
[02:57] <BenC> (gdb) p fragment_table[7000] 
[02:57] <BenC> $3 = {start_block = 213051399, size = 668592203}
[02:57] <BenC> (gdb) p fragment_table[1] 
[02:57] <BenC> $4 = {start_block = 2197881567, size = 856138937}
[02:57] <BenC> (gdb) p fragment_table[0] 
[02:58] <BenC> $5 = {start_block = 2122878085, size = 663237347}
[02:58] <BenC> int main() { printf("%d\n", (((8192 * 8) + 8192 -1) / 8192) * 4); }
[02:58] <BenC> just did that
[02:58] <Keybuk> I think the bug is that the file format is busted if you have any multiple of 8192 fragments
[03:00] <Keybuk> BenC: right, do it in Python
[03:00] <Keybuk> >>> ((float)((8192 * 8) + 8192 - 1) / 8192) * 4
[03:00] <Keybuk> 35.99951171875
[03:00] <Keybuk> it's supposed to be 36 I think ;)
[03:01] <BenC> where is that anyway?
[03:01] <Keybuk> where's which?
[03:01] <Keybuk> oh, that
[03:01] <Keybuk> read_fragment_table in read_fs.c
[03:02] <Keybuk> the kernel has the same macros
[03:03] <Keybuk> hmm, no, maybe it is supposed to be 32
[03:10] <Keybuk> yeah, 32 = indexes of 8 tables of 1024 8-byte structs each
[03:10] <BenC> #define SQUASHFS_FRAGMENT_BYTES(A)      (A * sizeof(struct squashfs_fragment_entry))
[03:10] <BenC> #define SQUASHFS_FRAGMENT_INDEX(A)      (SQUASHFS_FRAGMENT_BYTES(A) / \
[03:10] <BenC>                                         SQUASHFS_METADATA_SIZE)
[03:11] <BenC> so does this make it rollover to a second table?
[03:12] <BenC> e.g. 0-8191 is in one table, 8192... is in a second, ...
[03:13] <BenC> aha
[03:13] <Keybuk> 0-1023 in one, 1024-etc.
[03:13] <Keybuk> 7168 is the 0th of the 8th table
[03:13] <Keybuk> and it looks like the entire 8th table is corrupted
[03:14] <BenC> nm, yeah
[03:14] <Keybuk> so that's kinda interesting
[03:14] <Keybuk> the last table wasn't right
[03:15] <Keybuk> it was "uncompressed and zero bytes" according to the header
[03:15] <BenC> at block 0, size 0, according to the kernel oops
[03:16] <Keybuk> so, I think I'm content *why* this crashes when we try and read the filesystem now
[03:16] <Keybuk> the fragment table is divided into chunks of 1024 entries each
[03:17] <Keybuk> with the location of each of these chunks (sequential, really, but just in case, I guess) in the headers
[03:17] <BenC> I wonder if we can increase the size of the metadata
[03:17] <Keybuk> each chunk is preceeded by a 2-byte size, which also indicates whether or not it is compressed
[03:17] <Keybuk> on tables 0 thru 6, the chunk of the table is uncompressed and the size is valid
[03:18] <Keybuk> uh, compressed
[03:18] <Keybuk> sorry
[03:18] <Keybuk> on table 7, the size is 32768, which we know to mean uncompressed and size of 0
[03:18] <Keybuk> which is clearly wrong
[03:18] <Keybuk> so the kernel reads no bytes for table 7 (fragments 7168..8191)
[03:18] <BenC> yeah, I'm guessing that the "uncompressed" bit is not really being set, just that the size is corrupt
[03:19] <Keybuk> thus there's junk in the fragment index
[03:19] <BenC> 32768 happens to be FRAG_ZIE
[03:19] <Keybuk> so whenever you try and read anything in the last 8th of the disk, it explodes
[03:19] <BenC> FRAG_SIZE
[03:19] <Keybuk> right, I'
[03:19] <Keybuk> I'm wondering whether the final table failed to compress :)
[03:20] <Keybuk> so I think we'
[03:20] <Keybuk> re done looking at uncompress, and now need to look at squash
[03:20] <BenC> maybe that's why you see the last part of mksquashfs fly by :)
[03:20] <BenC> I don't have a way to do any testing with mksquashfs...no valid data to compress as a test case
[03:21] <Keybuk> I have no idea what kind of data is valid
[03:21] <Keybuk> at the moment I have to theories
[03:21] <Keybuk> 1) mksquashfs is unable to correctly write any image with multiples of 8192 fragments
[03:21] <Keybuk> or
[03:21] <Keybuk> 2) squashfs in general is unable to deal with a fragment table not being compressable
[03:22] <Keybuk> aha
[03:22] <Keybuk> and gdb has just reached my break point in write_fragment_table
[03:22] <Keybuk> remind me, can I dump core here so I can resume at any point/
[03:24] <Keybuk> yes, I can
[03:24] <Keybuk> it's "gcore"
[03:24] <Keybuk> right
[03:24] <Keybuk> I'll just go for more tea I think
[03:28] <Riddell> infinity: morning
[03:33] <Keybuk> right, I have reinforcements
[03:41] <Keybuk> man this does some strange things
[03:41] <Keybuk> it just copied, one by one, an array into another identical array
[03:43] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:46] <Keybuk> int avail_bytes = i == meta_blocks - 1 ? frag_bytes % SQUASHFS_METADATA_SIZE : SQUASHFS_METADATA_SIZE;
[03:46] <Keybuk> ...
[03:46] <Keybuk> right
[03:47] <bddebian> Heya Keybuk
[03:47] <Keybuk> so the bytes available to the table is 8192, unless you're the last entry
[03:47] <Keybuk> ?!
[03:47] <Keybuk> what's that all about
[03:50] <Keybuk> in fact, frag_bytes is a multiple of metadata_size
[03:50] <Keybuk> so you have ZERO BYTES AVAILABLE TO YOU
[03:50] <Keybuk>    _   _  _   _   _
[03:50] <Keybuk>   /_\ | || | /_\ | |
[03:50] <Keybuk>  / _ \| __ |/ _ \|_|
[03:50] <Keybuk> /_/ \_\_||_/_/ \_(_)
[03:51] <Keybuk> which means whatever compress2 returns is automatically bigger than 0 (8 bytes)
[03:52] <Keybuk> which means it sticks the UNCOMPRESSED tag on the front
[03:52] <Keybuk> and ors it with zero bytes
[03:52] <lifeless> isn't that a little redundant ?
[03:52] <Keybuk> lifeless: it leaves the files in the latter 8th of the disk somewhat redundant, yes
[03:53] <Keybuk> because the fragment table that tells you where they all are is AWOL
[03:55] <bddebian> Hi lifeless
[03:55] <lifeless> hiya
[03:55] <Keybuk> then I shall do evil things with it in gdb
[03:56] <Keybuk> this explains why it's "cat" that triggers it, and not just plain find
[03:56] <lifeless> gotta read the content
[03:56] <lifeless> hnn put a dir in the last 8th and find would balk too I presume
[03:56] <ajmitch> like /var was earlier
[03:57] <Keybuk> lifeless: no, dirs are stored differently in the filesystem
[03:57] <lifeless> ah. 
[03:57] <Keybuk> ajmitch: we're still on that bug ;)
[03:57] <ajmitch> wonderful :)
[03:58] <Keybuk> lifeless: dirs are stored as inodes with a list of children inodes, etc.
[03:58] <Keybuk> there's no "content"
[03:58] <lifeless> Keybuk: the child list is internal then 
[03:58] <Keybuk> files are stored as lists of references to shared compressed fragments of files
[03:58] <Keybuk> and it's that fragment table that's buggered
[03:58] <lifeless> righto, I see
[04:02] <Keybuk> aha, at the break point
[04:02] <Keybuk> now let's wind it forwards to the last entry
[04:02] <Keybuk> ok
[04:02] <Keybuk> (gdb) p avail_bytes
[04:02] <Keybuk> $1 = 0
[04:03] <Keybuk> we change that to 8192
[04:03] <Keybuk> cont, and program exited normally
[04:03] <Keybuk> right, so we have a filesystem image
[04:03] <Keybuk> now can unsquashfs read it?
[04:04] <Keybuk> Read existing filesystem, 81918 inodes scanned
[04:04] <Keybuk> \o/
[04:04] <Keybuk> let's just gdb it and sanity check the fragment table
[04:06] <Keybuk> (gdb) p (*fragment_table)[7168] 
[04:06] <Keybuk> $10 = {start_block = 592306426, size = 8548}
[04:06] <Keybuk> that's BETTER
[04:07] <Keybuk> I guess it's now time for the ultimate test
[04:07] <Keybuk> can the kernel mount it?
[04:07] <Keybuk> it mounts ... can the kernel read it?
[04:08] <Keybuk> IT CAN!
[04:09] <Keybuk> BenC: ok, so the kernel bug here is that when loading the fragment tables, the kernel doesn't check that it loads everything -- the last fragment table index had a zero size, which meant it had a whole series of unpopulated structures
[04:09] <Keybuk> it should have bailed and said "read 0 bytes, wanted 8192"
[04:09] <Keybuk> and refused to mount the image
[04:09] <Lathiat> I have a question - does the LTS allow you to upgrade an existing breezy system?
[04:09] <Lathiat> err
[04:09] <Lathiat> s/LTS/desktop cd
[04:09] <Keybuk> ok, now to ponder the mksquashfs fix
[04:10] <Keybuk> Lathiat: no, the alternate does though
[04:10] <BenC> Keybuk: excellent
[04:10] <Lathiat> Keybuk: righto
[04:10] <Keybuk> BenC: so it's that ?: that's busted
[04:10] <Keybuk> I think I can see what it's trying to do
[04:10] <Lathiat> Something to keep in mind i guess, especially as its called 'alternate'
[04:10] <Keybuk> int avail_bytes = i == meta_blocks - 1 ? frag_bytes % SQUASHFS_METADATA_SIZE : SQUASHFS_METADATA_SIZE;
[04:10] <Keybuk> it's trying to say "we have METADATA_SIZE bytes, unless we're the last one, in which case we have maybe less"
[04:11] <Keybuk> except it doesn't account for having an exact multiple of METADATA_SIZE
[04:11] <Keybuk> needs a silly +1-1 hack
[04:12] <bddebian> Break out the hex editor ;-P
[04:14] <fabbione> sfllaw: i do regullarly install on Niagara.
[04:15] <Keybuk> fabbione: good morning
[04:15] <fabbione> morning
[04:15] <Traveler1> hi
[04:15] <bddebian> Hello Traveler1
[04:15] <Traveler1> i'm using espresso from the RC, it does not have REISER as partition fs option
[04:24] <Traveler1> i'm using espresso from the RC, it does not have REISER as partition fs option
[04:24] <zul> ok quick question for bug #45976 if we get the patches that fix the CVE that should be enough shouldnt it?
[04:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45976 in phpmyadmin "Security fixes in phpmyadmin 2.8.1" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45976
[04:26] <fabbione> zul: you only want the patch that fixes that specific CVE
[04:26] <ajmitch> sigh, yet more holes in phpmyadmin?
[04:26] <bddebian> heh
[04:26] <zul> fabbione: yeah thats what i was going to do
[04:27] <Keybuk> infinity: are you around?
[04:28] <zul> fabbione, there are two though so ill get 2 patches...tomorrow at least im off to bed later
[04:29] <fabbione> zul: and coordinate with pitti 
[04:29] <zul> ok
[04:29] <bddebian> Later zul
[04:29] <zul> later
[04:49] <Keybuk> BenC: oh, wow
[04:49] <Keybuk> there's a bug
[04:49] <Keybuk> #32481
[05:08] <poningru> mako: :( your blog requires cookies
[05:09] <poningru> I just lost a very large posting...
[05:12] <poningru> s/posting/comment
[05:17] <Keybuk> right, all uploaded, etc.
[05:17] <Keybuk> bed time for me
[05:17] <Burgundavia> Lathiat, you see that Howl shut down development?
[05:30] <sfllaw> I am totally prepared for release.
[05:30] <sfllaw> I have a big carton of blank CDs.
[05:32] <Burgundavia> sfllaw, lol
[05:33] <sfllaw> No, no.  It's true.
[05:33] <sfllaw> Now I just have to find someone with a burner.
[05:33] <mako> poningru: right, that's the captcha
[05:34] <mako> poningru: sorry about that :-( but the amount of spam i was getting was overwhelming
[05:35] <poningru> mako: do what lessig etc. do
[05:35] <mako> poningru: what does lessig, etc. do?
[05:36] <poningru> the human turing test
[05:36] <mako> poningru: that doesn't mean anything to me
[05:37] <poningru> I'm trying to fight the comment spam bots. Type "human" here:
[05:37] <poningru> and he gives a small box to write human
[05:37] <poningru> ofcourse you can do things like
[05:37] <poningru> dont put anything here:
[05:37] <mako> poningru: i just went to lessig's blog
[05:37] <mako> poningru: and clicked on the first link
[05:37] <mako> poningru: and it was full of spammed comments
[05:37] <poningru> :)
[05:37] <poningru> hehe I just realized..
[05:37] <mako> so, um, the one i have works
[05:38] <poningru> but...
[05:38] <mako> i actually invented a new type of catpcha
[05:38] <mako> it's text-based.. pretty cool and uses commonsense knowledge.. but i wrote it as a mediawiki plugin
[05:38] <sfllaw> mako: How does it work?
[05:38] <poningru> code?
[05:38] <poningru> err link?
[05:39] <mako> sfllaw: i can send you the paper if you want
[05:39] <mako> i'm waiting to see if the paper got accepted into an AI conference
[05:39] <sfllaw> mako: I know that people have been considering challenge-response type catpchas.
[05:39] <mako> this isn't like that
[05:39] <mako> it's based around commonsense knowledge
[05:40] <sfllaw> Does it prevent the pr0n-site attack?
[05:40] <mako> no
[05:40] <sfllaw> Sad.
[05:40] <mako> but i've never actually seen evidence of that actually used
[05:40] <mako> and neither has the guy who invented the original captcha
[05:40] <sfllaw> Uhm...
[05:40] <sfllaw> Neither
[05:40] <sfllaw> have
[05:40] <sfllaw> I.
[05:40] <sfllaw> Yeah.
[05:41] <mako> i mean, it would concievably work
[05:41] <sfllaw> ;)
[05:41] <mako> but there's no evidence its ever actually been done :)
[05:41] <sfllaw> I should totally do that.
[05:41] <poningru> the pr0n-site attack?
[05:41] <sfllaw> But where would I find the porn?
[05:41] <mako> captchas have been broken
[05:41] <mako> but not that way
[05:41] <sfllaw> With handwriting recognition.
[05:41] <sfllaw> I've seen that.
[05:41] <mako> well, using a number of techniques to improve the computer vision technology
[05:42] <mako> apparently, the original captchas used on yahoo and stuff are considered broken by the creators
[05:42] <mako> mine seems to be more robust
[05:42] <sfllaw> Yay.
[05:42] <mako> but it's susceptable to poisoning
[05:42] <mako> which can be recovered
[05:43] <mako> but only if you can notice some decent percentage of successful attacks
[05:43] <mako> so it would work for blogs and wikis where you can revert or mark comments as spam and remove them
[05:43] <mako> because you can undo a whole lot of poisoning with a single revert
[05:43] <mako> so it should raise the bar high enough
[05:44] <mako> but i haven't done a very large scale attack on my system yet so i don't know well it would work
[05:44] <mako> but yes
[05:44] <mako> poningru: sorry about the normal captcha
[05:44] <mako> poningru: but if i replace it, it will be with a better more accessible captcha
[05:44] <poningru> ok that would be better
[05:44] <sfllaw> That would be good.
[05:44] <sfllaw> Especially since shipping captcha-breaking tools for accessibility would only be funny for a short while.
[05:45] <sfllaw> poningru: The pr0n-site attack is theoretically simple.
[05:45] <sfllaw> 1. Set up a porn site.
[05:45] <sfllaw> 2. Advertise.
[05:45] <sfllaw> 3. Have desperate people want to log in.
[05:45] <sfllaw> 4. In order to access the porn, they have to answer a captcha.
[05:45] <poningru> ah ic
[05:45] <bddebian> heh
[05:45] <sfllaw> 5. Cull the captchas from the things you want to spam.
[05:45] <sfllaw> It's like Mechanical Turk.  But for a smaller problem domain.
[05:45] <poningru> true true
[05:46] <sfllaw> And from people with more motivation!
[05:46] <poningru> but you know a lot of people have gotten good results off of the human turing test type...
[05:47] <poningru> I think it was on planet free desktop that a lot of people were talking about it a while ago
[05:47] <sfllaw> jsgotangco: I'm really helpful.
[05:48] <jsgotangco> i will make sure we will have a private chat in paris
[05:49] <sfllaw> :)
[05:49] <sfllaw> jsgotangco: Will you be there?
[05:49] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:49] <sfllaw> Nice.
[05:49] <sfllaw> We should have a beer or something.
[05:50] <poningru> mako: forgot to tell you about the link broken thing as well
[05:50] <poningru> mako: in my post there is a link but it hrefed itself
[05:50] <mako> ok
[05:50] <sfllaw> mako: Sorry we missed you at Debconf.
[05:50] <sfllaw> I heard you were busy getting married or something.
[05:50] <sfllaw> Congratulations!
[05:50] <mako> sfllaw: i'm sorry you missed me at debconf
[05:50] <mako> not yet.. monday
[05:50] <poningru> nice congrats
[05:50] <jsgotangco> wow
[05:50] <sfllaw> Congratulations anyway!
[05:51] <mako> thanks :)
[05:51] <neuralis> mako: whoa, dude, this monday?
[05:51] <sfllaw> I'll buy you a drink in Paris.  I forget, do you abstain from alcohol?
[05:51] <sfllaw> It's been a few years.
[05:51] <sfllaw> And I was really drunk the last time I offered to buy you one.
[05:51] <mako> neuralis: yeah, you gonna be around?
[05:51] <mako> sfllaw: no, i drink
[05:52] <neuralis> mako: let me find out when my flight is
[05:52] <mako> neuralis: heh, cool
[05:52] <neuralis>  4  LH 421 Q 29MAY 1 BOSFRA HK1  2050 E  2150 1055+1 *1A/E* 
[05:52] <sfllaw> Wow.  That's like line noise.
[05:52] <mako> neuralis: yeah, you can come if you want
[05:53] <mako> neuralis: we'll be at davis sq.. 2.. i'll send you an email
[05:53] <mako> neuralis: i haven't sent out invites to anyone yet.. we had a last minute change of venue
[05:53] <neuralis> mako: my dressy clothes are all packed, sadly
[05:53] <mako> neuralis: um.. you'll fit right in then :)
[05:53] <neuralis> haha
[05:54] <mako> neuralis: it's gonna be like 31 degrees :)
[05:54] <mako> neuralis: and JZ is marrying us :)
[05:54] <neuralis> are you serious? that's hilarious :)
[05:55] <neuralis> sounds like i'll have to at least drop by for a bit
[05:55] <LaserJock> mako: congrats and good luck :-)
[05:55] <neuralis> mako: although better jz than rms.
[05:56] <sfllaw> Which JZ?
[05:56] <sfllaw> jwz?
[05:56] <mako> neuralis: it's gonna be very laid back.. a few kegs of beer.. bbq. we're saving the painful tradition stuff for a ceremony with the parents and stuff out in seattle in a couple months
[05:56] <Burgundavia> mako, any idea of that timetable?
[05:56] <neuralis> sfllaw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Zittrain
[05:56] <mako> sfllaw: jonathan zittrain, prof of cyberlaw at harvard/oxford
[05:56] <sfllaw> mako: Woah.  Wicked.
[05:56] <fabbione> hey mako!
[05:57] <mako> Burgundavia: still under negotiations, i'll let you know though
[05:57] <mako> fabbione: hola
[05:57] <Burgundavia> mako, I should be able to make it, so give a bit of warning
[05:57] <mako> Burgundavia: that would be fun :)
[05:58] <sfllaw> I was just sent spam asking me to someone something.
[05:58] <sfllaw> Apparently, I'm obviously a supplier of OEM Original HP C6578DN Genuine Tri-Color Inkjet Printhead Cartridges.
[05:59] <mako> jsgotangco: i don't think i'm the kind of guy who is willing to play secondlife
[05:59] <fabbione> YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!
[05:59] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:00] <neuralis> mako: in other news, it's way creepy that you're getting married. you're not much older than i am.
[06:00] <sfllaw> mako: Isn't your first life awesome enough?
[06:00] <mako> neuralis: tell me about it
[06:00] <sfllaw> fabbione: Sweet!
[06:00] <neuralis> fabbione: rock!
[06:00] <fabbione> sfllaw: now we know how to workaround the issue
[06:00] <mako> neuralis: if you had told me i would be getting married 3 years ago, i would have freaked out
[06:00] <sfllaw> fabbione: Good.  I didn't even know there was a problem.
[06:00] <fabbione> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/sparc/KnownIssues <-
[06:00] <fabbione> sfllaw: now you do :)
[06:00] <sfllaw> fabbione: Excellent.
[06:01] <fabbione> that page still needs itaglish to english translation
[06:01] <mako> neuralis: but in all fairness, i am getting married by JZ at a keggar in my friends backyard
[06:01] <neuralis> mako: true, true.
[06:02] <sfllaw> mako: There aren't enough good keggers in this world.
[06:02] <mako> sfllaw: dude, we're getting a keg of frambois
[06:02] <mako> yes, it comes in kegs in this country (apparently)
[06:03] <sfllaw> mako: Yay!
[06:03] <sfllaw> mako: I'm trying to organize Debconf in Montral.
[06:03] <sfllaw> I'm thinking kegs of a different microbrews each night.
[06:04] <mako> sfllaw: you have my vote
[06:04] <sfllaw> Also, we can get tasty vegan food here.
[06:05] <sfllaw> Which I think will draw a large contingent of "yes"es.
[06:05] <mako> excellent!
[06:05] <sfllaw> I just have to find a university who wants to put us up for nearly nothing.
[06:05] <mako> sfllaw: are you vegan?
[06:05] <sfllaw> No.
[06:05] <sfllaw> But I am sensitive to these issues.
[06:06] <mako> i am, if you'll forgive the self-deprecation, merely a lacto-ovo vegetarian ;)
[06:06] <sfllaw> :)
[06:06] <sfllaw> If I play my cards right, I think I can fool most people into eating a mostly vegan diet.
[06:06] <sfllaw> It's cheaper, which is good for budgets.
[06:07] <jsgotangco> wow
[06:15] <poningru> sfllaw: you know if you come to florida US there are many uni's that will put you up for cheap
[06:16] <sfllaw> poningru: But it's not Montral.
[06:17] <sfllaw> I have a few years to set things up.
[06:17] <sfllaw> I should try to get a dorm to put about 300 people in.
[06:17] <sfllaw> And access to an industrial kitchen.
[06:17] <sfllaw> And some lecture halls.
[06:17] <sfllaw> And free Internet.
[06:17] <sfllaw> In the downtown core.
[06:17] <sfllaw> How difficult could that possibly be?
[06:19] <poningru> in gainesville florida...not very
[06:19] <poningru> in montreal 
[06:20] <sfllaw> I have never been to Gainesville.
[06:21] <poningru> well its a college town
[06:21] <poningru> uni of florida
[06:22] <poningru> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gainesville,_Florida
[06:22] <poningru> it has a pretty big lug
[06:23] <sfllaw> Wow.  It _is_ a University town.
[06:23] <sfllaw> Less than 100,000 people.
[06:23] <sfllaw> Does that include students?
[06:31] <neuralis> sfllaw: there was a strong bid by toronto for the 2006 wikimedia conference
[06:31] <poningru> sfllaw: no that does not include students
[06:31] <neuralis> sfllaw: maybe they'd want to do debconf; http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2006/Toronto
[06:33] <sfllaw> neuralis: Uhm.  Debconf 2 was held in Toronto.
[06:33] <sfllaw> :)
[06:37] <neuralis> sfllaw: i had no idea. (as someone who used debian for nine years, it's a bit embarrassing, but i've never been to a debconf.)
[06:37] <sfllaw> neuralis: You should!
[06:38] <sfllaw> You're in Cambridge?
[06:38] <neuralis> yeah. i would've gone to mexico, but i simply didn't have any time :/
[06:38] <sfllaw> Next year?
[06:38] <neuralis> very likely.
[06:39] <neuralis> ufk in the short term, and ubucon if i find time to go down to sf for lwe.
[06:40] <poningru> sfllaw: also gainesville has really good vegan food culture
[06:40] <poningru> and UF has tons of dorms
[06:40] <poningru> which are not used at all during summer
[06:41] <sfllaw> poningru: Your biggest problem would be that your country is one that not many people would go to.
[06:41] <poningru> true...
[06:41] <sfllaw> Debconf is typically held in the Very Free World.
[06:42] <poningru> :(
[06:44] <sfllaw> poningru: When are you guys going to elect another FDR?
[06:44] <poningru> if only
[06:44] <poningru> baah this entire thing will blow over in couple of years
[06:45] <poningru> atleast in 2008
[06:45] <poningru> hopefully
[06:47] <jsgotangco> ?
[06:48] <Burgundavia> sfllaw, our guy is shining star either
[06:49] <Burgundavia> s/is/is no
[06:49] <sfllaw> Our system of government moderates him.  He either needs the Bloc's support, or the NDP's.
[06:50] <Burgundavia> sfllaw, yes, but have seen the latest polling numbers in Quebec. I am scared
[06:52] <poningru> sfllaw: its the same here in the us as well... except congress is filled with the same party members as he is
[06:53] <sfllaw> poningru: Your system of government is fairly different than ours.
[06:53] <poningru> yeah... but I was refering to the balance of powre
[06:54] <poningru> as in the executive still needs the congress' support inorder to do ... anything significant
[06:55] <sfllaw> poningru: Your administration seems to believe in the Unitary Executive Theory.  Which few people seem to challenge.
[06:55] <sfllaw> But I believe this is way off topic for #ubuntu-devel
[06:56] <poningru> #ubuntu-offtopic ?
[06:58] <nomed> hi all
[07:00] <yuriy> ping YokoZar
[07:00] <nomed> sfllaw, bug #46502
[07:00] <nomed> i know they are just icons .. but if they are not in tango-icon-theme-common xubuntu menu will miss icons on the menu :)
[07:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46502 in tango-icon-theme-common "new xfce icons" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46502
[07:02] <sfllaw> nomed: That doesn't seem to be a release critical bug to me.
[07:02] <sfllaw> They certainly aren't part of the human theme.
[07:02] <sfllaw> You'll have to convince mdz to put them in.
[07:02] <nomed> sfllaw, there is not just ubuntu 
[07:03] <nomed> as i told that's critical for xubuntu ..
[07:03] <nomed> hi janimo 
[07:03] <sfllaw> nomed: I don't know how xubuntu gets released.
[07:03] <janimo> hi nomed
[07:03] <sfllaw> But I have no control over uploads.
[07:03] <janimo> what is critical for xubuntu?
[07:04] <nomed> sfllaw, dholbach knows already that issue .. i just do not know how he sorts bugs :)
[07:04] <nomed> janimo, ex xfburn icon
[07:04] <janimo> nomed, there is no upstream icon for that, I know.
[07:04] <nomed> it's in tango-icon-theme-common
[07:04] <janimo> I would not call it critical though :)
[07:04] <nomed> janimo,well ..
[07:05] <nomed> there is a menu spec entry
[07:05] <janimo> oh, it does have an icon it just does not fond it you mean?
[07:05] <nomed> janimo, no
[07:05] <nomed> i added it to tango-icon-theme-common
[07:06] <nomed> as all the missing and needed xfce icons
[07:06] <janimo> nomed, why does xfburn not come with it itself? it;s an app specific icon
[07:06] <janimo> like thunar's
[07:06] <nomed> dholbach will just need to  merge it as ge did the last time :)
[07:06] <sfllaw> nomed: I will leave its priority to dholbach's discretion.
[07:06] <nomed> janimo, xfburn has not an icon
[07:06] <janimo> nomed, ok that's why I say we should not add it to the menu
[07:07] <nomed> but we use the burner icon from tango-icon-theme-common
[07:07] <janimo> people would associate it with tha ticon, and when upstteam gets an icon it will surely look different
[07:07] <janimo> if in the next few days we can convince upstream to come up with an icon that's a different story :)
[07:07] <nomed> janimo, in tango-icon-theme-common there are apps icons
[07:07] <janimo> nomed, so changing the desktop file would suffice?
[07:07] <nomed> it's the same for amarok
[07:07] <nomed> and many others
[07:08] <nomed> janimo, you do not have to do anything
[07:08] <nomed> it'll just work once dholbach will find the time to merge my bzr branch
[07:38] <desrt> woo.
[07:38] <desrt> built-in elilo
[07:40] <fabbione> desrt: ?
[07:40] <desrt> fabbione; my new macbook arrived today
[07:41] <desrt> i'm trying to install dapper
[07:41] <desrt> it looks like a lot of people have done some things that will make my life easier
[07:41] <fabbione> isn't that the i386 junk?
[07:41] <desrt> not junk
[07:44] <sfllaw> fabbione: I thought the new Intel chips were amd64.
[07:45] <fabbione> sfllaw: still x86* junk :)
[07:45] <sfllaw> fabbione: Stop being an architecture snob.  Not everyone is privileged enough to afford Real computers.
[07:46] <desrt> what would you prefer?  powerpc?
[07:47] <fabbione> sfllaw: please stop dude.. you don't know that desrt and I had known each other for a while and that we used to kid about $arch
[07:47] <sfllaw> Ah.
[07:47] <sfllaw> :)
[07:49] <fabbione> sfllaw: desrt still owns me a g5 ;)
[08:16] <zyga> hello
[08:16] <zyga> there is a problem with the EU tracker mirror
[08:17] <zyga> ubuntu-6.06-rc-desktop-i386.iso does not download (requested download is not authorized for use with this tracker)
[08:17] <zyga> same with -powerpc.iso
[08:26] <zyga> strange, no one around
[08:27] <fabbione> ?
[08:27] <jdub> zyga: calm after the storm
[08:30] <jsgotangco> :)
[08:40] <zyga> :)
[08:40] <zyga> those torrents are still dead 
[08:40] <zyga> others seem to pull just fine :)
[08:56] <jdub> "Yes. With this release, madwifi-old is now officially deprecated. The old codebase is no longer supported and won't receive any updates."
[08:57] <jdub> d'oh
[08:57] <jdub> *cough*
[08:58] <fabbione> jdub: were they waiting for us to release?
[09:01] <jdub> heh
[09:19] <desrt> is there any way to prevent the install cd from switching video mode just before loading the installer screen?
[09:19] <desrt> ie: just leave it in 80x25...
[09:21] <fabbione> desrt: yes...
[09:21] <fabbione> how.. gimme a sec :)
[09:21] <desrt> it must be a -- kernel option :p
[09:21] <fabbione> debian-installer/framebuffer=false
[09:21] <fabbione> boot with that option
[09:22] <desrt> k thx.
[09:22] <desrt> worked like a charm!
[09:22] <desrt> this thing is speedy
[09:23] <fabbione> no rc?
[09:23] <desrt> rc?
[09:23] <fabbione> Releae Candidate
[09:25] <desrt> oh.  it's out?
[09:25] <apokryphos> yes
[09:25] <desrt> since when?
[09:25] <apokryphos> yesterday; see http://tinyurl.com/ehqdg
[09:25] <desrt> well
[09:25] <desrt> no worries
[09:25] <desrt> i'm sure flight7 dist-upgrades properly
[09:26] <fabbione> assuming it will not burn your computer..
[09:26] <fabbione> if you see some smoke coming out, it's not our fault
[09:26] <desrt> :)
[09:26] <desrt> with how warm this thing runs i would not be suprised
[09:27] <desrt> i have the bootcamp firmware (so i can boot x86 stuff) but i do not have x86 partitioning on the harddrive
[09:28] <desrt> so i have enough bios to boot linux to the point where it's able to read EFI partitions natively
[09:28] <dholbach> good morning
[09:28] <desrt> hello.
[09:28] <jsgotangco> good morning dholbach
[09:29] <dholbach> hey desrt, hey jsgotangco
[09:30] <sivang> morning everybody
[09:30] <desrt> i wonder if this install process will try to give me grub
[09:30] <desrt> that might suck
[09:31] <Burgundavia> sivang, check ubuntu-changes, it is
[09:32] <sivang> woo hoo
[09:32] <jsgotangco> yeah there was an upload earlier
[09:33] <dholbach> you won't find much in the changelog
[09:34] <sivang> yeah, I see Scott was at a severe state when he wrote that changlog entry
[09:34] <fabbione> there has been worst :)
[09:34] <sivang> at least it was only in the fs creation tool, not in the kernel driver itself
[09:34] <sivang> fabbione: heh
[09:35] <sivang> fabbione: you sould have offered him your miracle drug :p
[09:37] <sivang> HiddenWolf: do you know if this specific bug I mentioned last night was also addressed? that is, DnD from a readonly location should not trigger a move?
[09:39] <sivang> hmm, squashfs is in universe??
[09:44] <pbor> is there a channel for ubuntu soc projects?
[09:45] <dholbach> pbor: I think not.
[09:46] <sivang> pbor ! 
[09:46] <sivang> pbor: how are you?
[09:46] <pbor> hey sivang, dholbach 
[09:46] <dholbach> Ciao Paolo by the way. :-)
[09:46] <pbor> I just found out that there is a gedit soc project :)
[09:46] <pbor> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/appinfo.html?csaid=4D72DEB990CEB28D
[09:47] <desrt> hum
[09:47] <desrt> it tried to install elilo, failed.
[09:47] <pbor> so I thought that I could get in touch with the student and mentor
[09:47] <dholbach> nice
[09:48] <dholbach> pbor: JaneW might be able to help you there.
[09:48] <sivang> pbor: the mentor is Pygi
[09:48] <sivang> pbor: better co-operate with the bzr-gui SoC to integrate bzr as well :)
[09:49] <pbor> sivang: well, the project is primarily about integrating bzr, yes
[09:49] <pbor> which channel/timezone can I find Pygi in?
[09:50] <Lure> pbor: here, UTC+2
[09:51] <pbor> thank, I'll hang ariund
[09:51] <pbor> +s
[09:52] <JaneW> pbor: lemme check...
[09:52] <sivang> pbor: try to find the bzr-gui project, could just as well turn it into one of the new plugins in the RCS plugin system
[09:52] <JaneW> pbor: Title 	Source Control Plugin for Gedit
[09:52] <JaneW> Student 	Brian Davis
[09:52] <JaneW> Mentor 	Mario ani
[09:52] <JaneW> pbor: you looking for e-mail addresses?
[09:52] <pbor> JaneW: no, more of an irc nick :)
[09:52] <JaneW> pbor: pygi is normally in #edubuntu
[09:54] <sivang> pbor: http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/appinfo.html?csaid=6A6B14E2FE896903
[09:55] <pbor> sivang: yep, I saw that... since they assigned two different soc projects I guess they should be a bit different though :)
[10:00] <sivang> pbor: hmm, probably.
[10:01] <moberg> hi, i've been accepted to SoC at Ubuntu. My project is "Applications to improve Ubuntu", but I don't know who is my mentor yet. (in the summary i received yesterday is only stated TBC)
[10:02] <lmanul> moberg: what is your full name ?
[10:02] <moberg> Peter Moberg
[10:03] <lmanul> Weird, can't find you on the SoC Ubuntu list, maybe your mentor hasn't yet been approved into the program
[10:03] <lmanul> moberg: were there any comments on your application ?
[10:04] <moberg> yes, i should rewrote some of it. But I don't know where to send it
[10:05] <moberg> "Very optimistic, each project would take somewhat longer to develop and test fully.
[10:05] <moberg> Perhaps you should redraft your application to just focus on the one project that takes your fancy the most."
[10:11] <G0SUB> JaneW: hello!
[10:12] <jsgotangco> G0SUB: congratulations
[10:12] <G0SUB> jsgotangco: heh, thanks!
[10:12] <G0SUB> jsgotangco: can I PM you?
[10:12] <JaneW> hi G0SUB 
[10:13] <G0SUB> JaneW: Can we talk in private for a moment?
[10:13] <JaneW> moberg: it may be Vincent Untz, but I am hoping t resolve all mentor issues today
[10:14] <jsgotangco> G0SUB: sure
[10:14] <JaneW> moberg: we had some duplication issues just before the announcements were made, so there was some frantic shuffling, BUT the mentor assignment function is currently frozen, so I am waiting for google to give me access again
[10:14] <JaneW> G0SUB: sure
[10:15] <moberg> JaneW: ok
[10:16] <moberg> should I conntact him now and give him my redrafted version of my proposal, or should I wait until the mentor issues are resolved?
[10:18] <JaneW> moberg: can you wait a short while (hour or so)? I'll try to discuss with mentors and see who will be taking it officially
[10:19] <moberg> JaneW: ok
[10:20] <dholbach> heya seb128
[10:20] <seb128> hi dholbach
[10:23] <G0SUB> ah, there goes the hugging contest ...
[10:23] <G0SUB> is it a hug day today?
[10:30] <fabbione> FYI: launchpad is down
[10:31] <fabbione> it is a known issue. kthxbye
[10:32] <sladen> desrt: does that actually work?  There's no BIOS to *patch* on a MacBook
[10:33] <sladen> desrt: ...unless you're running in BootCamp mode
[10:33] <desrt> i booted with quasi-bootcamp
[10:34] <desrt> i'd like to find out how to not do this but it doesn't seem too easy
[10:35] <desrt> fabbione; does this mean the archive is down too?
[10:36] <fabbione> nope
[10:36] <fabbione> only LP web interface or so it seems
[10:36] <sladen> desrt: currently the kernel/etc on the i386 CD work, but there's no [Free]  code to generate an HFS+ image to boot from... I suspected there will be a hand-patched CD available after release built with the aid of a MacOSX box and that will/should boot natively
[10:37] <desrt> i have this refit thing installed
[10:37] <desrt> it's very nice
[10:42] <desrt> hum.  atheros seems to be broken with nm-applet
[10:46] <seb128> grumpf, rsync on the edubuntu CD seems to redownload the CD for every update, I'm wondering why
[10:55] <ptlo> pygi: ping
[10:56] <pygi> ptlo, I am asleep :)
[10:57] <ptlo> pygi: have you translated anything? i don't want to freeze the others, i've revised everything last night. so if you want you can translate starting at offset 600, 's that ok with you?
[10:57] <pbor> oh pygi joined... pygi ping too :)
[10:57] <pbor> (when you wake up obviously)
[10:58] <pygi> ptlo, ok, send me url at mail?
[10:58] <pygi> pbor, how may I help? :)
[10:58] <ptlo> pygi: sure. sleep well :)
[10:58] <pygi> ptlo, thanks :)
[10:58] <pbor> pygi: I am on of the upstream devs of gedit... I discovered you are mentoring a gedit soc...
[10:58] <pbor> pygi: just wanted to get in touch
[10:59] <pygi> pbor, ah, nice :)
[11:00] <pbor> pygi: feel free to tell your student to join #gedit on gimpnet... in fact there are other people which are/were working on a 'project management' plugin
[11:00] <pygi> pbor, I ofcourse will...I'll come also so we could discuss this project in detail
[11:00] <pbor> sure
[11:00] <pygi> if you remember we were already discussing about that?
[11:01] <pbor> heh
[11:01] <pygi> :)
[11:01] <pygi> yes, you said that also :-P
[11:01] <pbor> :)
[11:03] <pygi> pbor, can we talk later please if you don't have anymore questions now? :)
[11:03] <pygi> I gotta run, and then later on do the translation or ptlo will eat me :)
[11:04] <pbor> pygi: yes, I don't have any particular question, as I said I just wanted to get in touch
[11:04] <pygi> thanks for that pbor :)
[11:04] <pbor> np
[11:06] <pygi> enjoy :)
[11:06] <dholbach> Kamion, mdz_: ok to upload ubuntu-artwork (added some icons which didn't show up until now)
[11:16] <desrt>  k.  elilo installs fine now, but locks on startup
[11:16] <desrt> hrmph.
[11:18] <sladen> desrt: you need to use elilo in EFI, or lilo with Boot-Camp
[11:18] <desrt> i am trying to use elilo in efi
[11:19] <desrt> it loads the kernel and initrd
[11:19] <desrt> but then locks
[11:19] <desrt> i get
[11:19] <sladen> desrt: remind me again how you /installed/ the machine using EFI?
[11:19] <desrt> Loading file \EFI\ubuntu\initrd.img...done[newline] 
[11:19] <desrt> then lockup
[11:19] <desrt> i didn't.  i used bootcamp for install.
[11:20] <desrt> but i have efi-only partitioning
[11:20] <sladen> desrt: right, then you need to use lilo.  not elilo.  elilo is for EFI machines.  The Mactels are *not* EFI machines when booted from Bootcamp.
[11:20] <desrt> i'm _not_ booting from bootcamp
[11:20] <sladen> desrt: "<desrt> i used bootcamp for install" ?  I'm confused
[11:20] <desrt> you're able to have bootcamp installed without using it to boot
[11:21] <infinity> mdz_: Around?
[11:21] <desrt> for example, macosx still starts using EFI even on a machine with bootcamp
[11:21] <desrt> and elilo is loading quite nicely
[11:21] <desrt> it's just crashing after reading the kernel image from disk
[11:22] <sladen> desrt: how did you write to the EFI nvram to tell EFI to load elilo?
[11:22] <desrt> i didn't.  i'm using rEFIt
[11:22] <zyga_> hmm
[11:22] <desrt> which i blessed using a macos installer cd
[11:22] <desrt> it's a fantastic program
[11:22] <desrt> gets a big thumbs-up from me
[11:23] <sladen> desrt: oh right... okay.
[11:23] <zyga_> does dapper work with itanium efi?
[11:24] <sladen> zyga_: yes, elilo+EFI on ia64
[11:24] <zyga_> great, thanks :)
[11:24] <desrt> woh
[11:24] <desrt> it sleeps!
[11:24] <sladen> zyga_: the only thing $special about the Mactels is that they don't boot FAT, or iso9660, from removalable media
[11:24] <desrt> it does not, however, wake up
[11:25] <desrt> sladen; unless you have bootcamp :)
[11:26] <sladen> desrt: in which case it's not a Mactel, but a poor imitation of a PC
[11:27] <desrt> true story
[11:27] <desrt> apple's BIOS is actually not too bad
[11:27] <desrt> maybe i should call it pseudobios
[11:31] <Kamion> sfllaw: could you please leave bug 46520 on grub-installer? There's no indication that it's a ubiquity bug, and even if it were I'd probably assign it to grub-installer on the basis that that's the piece of the installer that does the relevant work.
[11:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46520 in grub-installer "Grub installes to wring drives MBR in defualt install. No way to change in standard installer." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46520
[11:32] <\sh> BenC: ping could you elaborate on "Areca SCSI Raid Controller in ubuntu linux kernel 2.6.15 not enabled by default"
[11:32] <infinity> Kamion: If you try to fix that bug, can you ping me to test your fix?  (I'll subscribe to it right now)
[11:33] <fabbione> \sh: bug num?
[11:33] <zyga> 
[11:33] <infinity> Kamion: I ask because grub-installer used to (in pre-breezy days) mess up with Zofia's SATA/PATA combination, but it now works correctly, so I'd prefer if it didn't regress. :)
[11:33] <\sh> fabbione: no bug...just for my information...I'm thinking to propose this company here to switch from sles9 to ubuntu server with support contract :)
[11:34] <mdke> seb128: this page is obsolete now right? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTranslations
[11:34] <\sh> fabbione: and as I told you last time...I have until the 12th july 1000 machines with areca controller, which are not working on sles9 but with ubuntu kernel (and enabled areca driver) they're running fine
[11:35] <fabbione> \sh: so it's only missing the option in the config?
[11:35] <\sh> fabbione: yeah..not enabled by default
[11:35] <\sh> fabbione: but I think someone had some reasons to do so
[11:36] <infinity> Man, I'm loving all the server errors on LP right now.
[11:36] <fabbione> \sh: ok i am checking the code.. just give me a few minutes please
[11:36] <\sh> fabbione: thx :)
[11:37] <seb128> mdke: yep, for 6 months or something like that
[11:37] <seb128> mdke: Desktop are translated by rosetta now
[11:37] <mdke> seb128: right, I'll bin it... people are still contributing :)
[11:38] <rob67> may i ask a question for the next release?
[11:40] <Kamion> infinity: it's so far up my list of "do not touch at this stage" ...
[11:40] <mdke> rob67: you can try it
[11:41] <infinity> Kamion: Right, I assumed it was a "don't touch for dapper" bug.  Still, if you poke at this stuff in edgy, I'd like to make sure it doesn't explode.  I was pleasantly surprised when it magically started working. :)
[11:41] <rob67> ok, thanks.  can i please put in a request to have xchat installed like the last version please?
[11:42] <rob67> i love Dapper, but i had to install an irc client before i could get on here
[11:42] <mdke> rob67: it's too late to change it now :) 
[11:42] <rob67> i mean for the next one after Dapper
[11:42] <mdke> you can use gaim to get here, for next time
[11:42] <\sh> rob67: konversation is still default in kubuntu-desktop >;-)
[11:43] <infinity> rob67: It may not be all that intuitive, but irssi is installed by default still.
[11:43] <mdke> rob67: have a look at bug #38694
[11:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38694 in ubuntu-meta "No XChat in Dapper" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38694
[11:43] <mdke> infinity: ah, a friend of mine had a problem with grub installing to the wrong disk, i'll dig out the bug number, maybe it's a dupe
[11:44] <rob67> ok.  ill let you guys decide, after all you are the genesius' :)  thanx again.
[11:45] <mdke> was bug #45989
[11:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45989 in grub-installer "Installation to second disk confuses drive numbering" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45989
[11:56] <fabbione> \sh: i don't see anything fancy for that driver...
[12:00] <Seveas> heh, what did keybuk drink at 2:55 UTC? :0
[12:04] <\sh> fabbione: so it could be enabled by default as "official" supported driver by Canonical?
[12:07] <fabbione> \sh: assuming there will be another kernel upload.... and d-i
[12:07] <fabbione> i need to get some food
[12:07] <fabbione> later
[12:08] <\sh> fabbione: who can tell? :) would be the kick suse out of business reason
[12:08] <infinity> I doubt there's be another round of kernel and d-i uploads.
[12:08] <infinity> (That would also require an initramfs-tools upload to add the driver to the SCSI module list)
[12:14] <fabbione> \sh: our support center would tell
[12:16] <desrt> hmm
[12:16] <desrt> new version of elilo is out that sounds like it fixes the bug i'm encountering
[12:27] <\sh> fabbione: jbailey is the responsible person for the support center?
[12:29] <jsgotangco> wow the kubuntu splash is beautiful
[12:33] <tepsipakki> is it intentional that if I install both gdm and kdm, both also run (two X servers)?
[12:34] <tepsipakki> before there was /etc/X11/default-display-manager, but not anymore
[12:35] <apokryphos> nope, there should only be one running, which one to be run is configure from sudo dpkg-reconfigure kdm/gdm, and that should be run on new install of gdm/kdm
[12:35] <jsgotangco> holy
[12:36] <tepsipakki> apokryphos: yes, manually running that creates /etc/X11/default-display-manager, but it isn't created on install
[12:36] <fabbione> \sh: yes
[12:36] <dholbach> heno: did that fix bug 46713?
[12:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46713 in example-content "Examples in "oo-about-these-files.odt" out of date." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46713
[12:37] <heno> dholbach: yes, and the stuff in the comment too
[12:37] <dholbach> super
[12:39] <infinity> \sh: Err, wait.  Doesn't the arcmsr module work with your controller?
[12:39] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ modinfo arcmsr | grep description
[12:39] <infinity> description:    ARECA (ARC11xx/12xx) SATA RAID HOST Adapter
[12:41] <infinity> \sh: That's been in our default kernels for a while, though initramfs-tools only learned about it on May 16th (maybe that was your issue?)
[12:43] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: where's the published bzr branch of your casper upload?
[12:44] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: there isn't one
[12:44] <Keybuk> because I keep forgetting that such things exist
[12:44] <Mithrandir> I should make the casper source build fail unless you put "Yes, I've published the branch" into the changelog or something. :-P
[12:46] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: that would not be unreasonable I guess
[12:46] <Keybuk> though you don't need to publish the branch anywhere
[12:46] <Keybuk> as the branch is in the source package
[12:47] <Keybuk> certainly having the binary step fail if it's uncommitted might be sweet
[12:47] <Mithrandir> I want it published so I can pull from it; bzr can't do bzr merge lp://casper/latest
[12:48] <\sh> infinity: can be, I'm using still kernel 2.6.15-22
[12:48] <\sh> infinity: and no...initramfs is not the issue...the driver wasn't enabled in ubuntu .config :=)
[12:48] <Kamion> whoa, vim 7 automatically folds debian/changelog
[12:49] <Kamion> +-- 11 lines: debian-installer-utils (1.30) UNRELEASED; urgency=low -- Colin Watson  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[12:49] <Kamion> +--  6 lines: debian-installer-utils (1.29) unstable; urgency=low -- Frans Pop  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[12:49] <Kamion> I wonder if I'll ever get used to that or if I should just turn it off
[12:49] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: you can apt-get source and merge from that though
[12:49] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: yes, but I'm lazy.
[12:49] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: so I think requiring people to explicitly publish it somewhere is unreasonable
[12:49] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: so are other people, like me
[12:49] <Keybuk> I'd just bypass the check :)
[12:49] <Kamion> has anyone confirmed the current amd64 desktop CD?
[12:50] <Kamion> or do the buildds still need to be upgraded for that?
[12:50] <Keybuk> Kamion: dunno, I've only just woken up
[12:52] <infinity> \sh: Oh, well, we've been including arcmsr in the default kernels for a long time, so... Hrm.
[12:53] <Kamion> Listing ubuntu/dapper (NEW) 0/0
[12:53] <fabbione> missing from the udeb?
[12:53] <Kamion> infinity: ^--
[12:53] <Kamion> infinity: squashfs-tools on king?
[12:53] <\sh> infinity: ah in linux-source of 2.6.15-22 it's enabled by default...thx :)
[12:53] <infinity> Kamion: I'm checking now.  The cronjob wasn't re-enabled anyway, so unless you've triggered manual builds, there's no new livefs.
[12:54] <Mithrandir> \sh: -22 is old.
[12:55] <\sh> Mithrandir: I was using 2.6.15-19 as FAI install kernel for these machines and in 2.6.15-19 it wasn't enabled by default
[12:56] <jsgotangco> ciao
[12:57] <\sh> Anyways...thx for your help...I need to write an report now, to tell my manager that it would be a good idea, to use ubuntu server 6.06 LTS as replacement to sles9
[12:58] <infinity> Kamion: Updating all the chroots now.  We can do a quick amd64 manual test run to make sure it's okay after that.
[12:58] <infinity> Keybuk: If we build a new amd64/desktop, can you rsync it and test?  Zofia's doing homework on her machine, so I can't appropriate it right now. :)
[12:58] <Keybuk> infinity: certainly
[12:59] <Kamion> I can too
[12:59] <Keybuk> we should probably test that ALL of the LiveFSs work, on general principal
[12:59] <infinity> Okay.
[12:59] <Keybuk> though the upstream author confirms the fix
[01:00] <infinity> Kamion: I'll poke you when the livefs builds are all done.  (I'll do one for each of ppc/i386/amd64)
[01:00] <infinity> Keybuk: Speaking of "the fix"... I noted a very clever changelog entry, but actual mention of what the bug was or how it was fixed. :)
[01:00] <Keybuk> infinity: heh
[01:01] <Keybuk> that's because it was too complicated to explain in a ChangeLog
[01:01] <Keybuk> so, right
[01:01] <Keybuk> a squashfs consists of a whole bunch of inodes
[01:01] <Keybuk> directory inodes just link to children, etc.
[01:01] <Keybuk> file inodes have a list of "fragments" that need to be joined together to make the file
[01:02] <Keybuk> each fragment is a compressed or uncompressed block of data, that may be shared amongst multiple files
[01:02] <Keybuk> and at the end of the squashfs is the fragment table, that lists all of the fragments (the inodes contain indexes, rather than in-data pointers)
[01:02] <Keybuk> the fragment table isn't just <len><entries ...> though
[01:02] <Keybuk> it too is compressed
[01:03] <Keybuk> in fact, the fragments are compressed blocked, and then the table itself is also stored in multiple compressed blocks
[01:03] <Keybuk> the table is in 8192K chunks, each chunk holding 1024 entries (each one is 8 bytes each)
[01:04] <Keybuk> uh, 8192 byte entries, sorry
[01:04] <mdz_> dholbach: ubuntu-artwork OK
[01:04] <mdz_> infinity: yes
[01:04] <Keybuk> when writing this table out, squashfs had a calculating error for "how much space is left" ... it used %, so if there was a complete chunk remaining, it thought there was 0 bytes not 8192
[01:05] <Keybuk> so, this meant that it called compress2() with destLen=0
[01:05] <Keybuk> zlib whenever asked to compress 0 bytes returns 8 bytes of header
[01:06] <Keybuk> because the "compressed size" was greater than the uncompressed size (8>0) it decided that the last fragment table chunk would be uncompressed, so marked it as such by ORing the size with 1<<15 
[01:06] <Keybuk> the net effect was that the last chunk of the fragment table was not read properly
[01:06] <Kinnison> urgh
[01:06] <Keybuk> so accessing any file in the last 8th of the disk would have been accessing random data
[01:07] <Keybuk> the reason this affected the amd64 CD only, was that it had EXACTLY 8,192 fragments
[01:07] <Keybuk> (there was enough duplicate blocks in those shiny new oggs to give this number even if other packages were changed for a bit)
[01:08] <Kinnison> erk
[01:08] <Keybuk> it actually turns out that it would affect any squashfs image with multiples of 1,024 fragments
[01:08] <Keybuk> the last fragment would always be busted
[01:08] <Keybuk> uh, last 1,024 fragments, sorry
[01:08] <infinity> mdz: Do we want to get some hideous strace-during-build hack into OOo for my pending (final) upload, or shall we just bury our heads in the sand on this one, knowing that security updates will build fine anyway, since terranova is our secrity buildd right now (and when security moves to LP, elmo can give us a new CPU or other such things to mask the bug)?
[01:09] <mdz> infinity: I think strace was a red herring, so no
[01:09] <Keybuk> obviously, the fix was to correct the "available space in the fragment table" calculation
[01:09] <infinity> Keybuk: That's so awesome it hurts.
[01:11] <mdz> Keybuk: goodness me
[01:12] <Keybuk> I NOW KNOW MORE ABOUT SQUASHFS THAN I EVER WANTED TO!
[01:12] <StevenK> Keybuk: Your poor eyes are burning? :-)
[01:13] <Keybuk> it would have gone away, eventually, but we'd have to stir in some SERIOUS entropy -- basically a 64KB block of data that does not exist anywhere else on the filesystem
[01:13] <Keybuk> and it would have bitten us on another CD too, eventually
[01:14] <Keybuk> in fact, I looked through Malone, and found a bug that sounded identical -- so we clearly did have a CD pop before
[01:14] <mdz> ternary conditional operator abuse!
[01:14] <mdz> Keybuk: nice work
[01:14] <giftnudel> Keybuk: really!
[01:16] <infinity> Keybuk: Your sleeplessness on this one won't go unrewarded.  Remind me that I owe you a beer or three in Paris.
[01:17] <Keybuk> yeah, right, who here could sleep once they've got their teeth into a bug like that? :p
[01:17] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: you guys will have to rebuild tango-icon-theme and tango-icon-theme-common to benefit from the icon-naming-utils changes
[01:17] <desrt> well
[01:18] <desrt> i've learned a lot about the new macs tonight
[01:18] <desrt> mostly i've learned that they're absolutely insane
[01:18] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/unsquashfs.c
[01:18] <Keybuk> ^ we should stuff that in the source package
[01:19] <Keybuk> well, after it's less hacky
[01:19] <desrt> running the upgraded firmware on them turns them into some strange sort of hybrid beast
[01:26] <infinity> Keybuk: Oh, can you be a dear and push your patch to Debian, so we don't have to worry about merging it when we bump to 3.0 in edgy?
[01:26] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, ok, thanks
[01:29] <sladen> Keybuk: NMU it as release-critical...  (and ignore which OS it's release-critical for, fnarr).
[01:29] <Keybuk> infinity: yeah, will report it to them
[01:29] <Keybuk> it'll be interesting to see how quickly upstream applies the patch
[01:31] <infinity> sladen: No need to NMU it, the Debian squashfs maintainer is quite responsive, and takes patches.
[01:32] <infinity> (He took Tollef's progress output patch, for instance)
[01:34] <dholbach> mdz: uploading example-content
[01:34] <mdz> dholbach: ok
[01:34] <mdz> Keybuk: how did you track it down in the end?
[01:35] <infinity> Kamion: livefs builds ready, BTW.
[01:38] <mdz> Znarl: do you know anything about the transparent proxy here in the office?
[01:39] <infinity> Keybuk: Hrm.  To trip the bug, mksquashfs needs to report "Number of fragments: 8192", doesn't it?
[01:39] <infinity> Keybuk: If so, this test is worthless anyway, since archive churn appears to have given the amd64 livefs 8196 fragments now.
[01:39] <mdz> infinity: all the better
[01:40] <mdz> FIX ME HARDER
[01:40] <mdz> I assume I'm the only one seeing MD5Sum mismatches on main and universe Sources in current Dapper
[01:41] <fabbione> mdz: the publisher is still running 
[01:41] <infinity> Which means nothing.
[01:41] <fabbione> i get them often between XX:30 and XX:45
[01:41] <infinity> The publisher only moves the new archive in place when it's done.
[01:41] <fabbione> infinity: s/publisher/rsync
[01:41] <infinity> A slow rsync could do it, yes.
[01:42] <Guard] [an> hello, i just tested dapper drake RC, it's fine but isn't xgl+compiz supposed to be activated ?
[01:42] <infinity> Guard] [an: Heavens no.
[01:42] <infinity> Guard] [an: XGL is seriously experimental tech, and pretty much guaranteed to break, just cause it feels like it.
[01:42] <Guard] [an> infinity : so i have to follow the usual steps to have it ? or is there some simplified procedure ?
[01:43] <Kamion> infinity: cron.daily-live running on lithium
[01:46] <Keybuk> infinity: right, if you rebuild 20060525 with it, it boots (I tried that)
[01:47] <Keybuk> mdz: well, being able to produce "broken" and "working" o
[01:47] <Keybuk> images on demand kinda helped
[01:47] <karim> can I ask something about apt-build here ?
[01:47] <Guard] [an> infinity : thx
[01:47] <Keybuk> I noticed the mksquashfs code could actually read its own generated filesystems (so it can append to them), so I hacked up an "unsquashfs" that only read a filesystem image and would report whether it was ok or not
[01:47] <Keybuk> that worked on the "working" images and core dumped on the "broken" ones
[01:48] <karim> I was wondering why it was downloading libdevel from binary source instead of building them
[01:48] <Keybuk> at that point, it was just a matter of gdb on unsquashfs until I understood why it core dumped -- which I tracked to the fragment table being boll
[01:48] <Keybuk> ocksed for the last 1024 entries
[01:48] <Keybuk> and then tracing mksquashfs as it wrote the fragment table and realising what was broken
[01:48] <infinity> karim: Because that's what apt-build does.  It doesn't re-bootstrap your whole system, it just builds the package you asked it to.
[01:49] <Keybuk> I'd gathered lots of debug logs while making the images, and I'd noticed there that all of the broken ones had 8192 fragments -- and that the fragment chunk size also happened to be 8192
[01:49] <karim> infinity, may ask you more about that ?
[01:50] <infinity> karim: Not really on topic here.
[01:50] <karim> infinity, apt-build is in perl, I am looking forward how to build deps he wants to install recursively
[01:50] <karim> infinity, yes, but I though people experienced with  it might be here
[01:50] <karim> thanks
[01:51] <mdz> infinity: did you have a look at those oo.o LP URLs?
[01:51] <infinity> mdz: Doing that one right now.
[01:51] <infinity> mdz: Should be uploaded and building on terranova when my bandwidth says it's okay.
[01:52] <karim> infinity, I am thinking of adding an option that would do more
[01:52] <infinity> karim: You may want to discuss it with the Debian maintainer (acid@debian.org), then.  I suspect almost no one here has ever used apt-build.
[01:52] <karim> infinity, by the way there was a package called apt-fu. I can't find a trace of it on the internet or debian. since it sopped in 2003 and wasn't included in debian at all
[01:53] <karim> infinity, ok thanks
[01:53] <mdz> infinity: is your bandwidth misbehaving?
[01:54] <infinity> mdz: No, I just live in Australia, and OOo has a 73MB diff.gz :)
[01:54] <mdz> infinity: would be faster to apply it on chinstrap and upload from there :-)
[01:54] <infinity> (Too late now)
[01:56] <iwj> This kubuntu install (alternative cd) is showing me a strange black screen with two white character cells.
[01:57] <iwj> While it rattles the disk gently.
[01:58] <mdz> iwj: almost soothingly?
[01:58] <mdz> infinity: are we clear to build new desktop CDs all around?
[01:58] <infinity> mdz: We just built new Ubuntu ones.
[01:59] <infinity> mdz: We can certainly do the other 3 as well.
[01:59] <mdz> infinity: do they have new livefses ready?
[01:59] <infinity> Nope, I'll spin 'em right now. :)
[02:00] <infinity> Grinding.
[02:01] <Kamion> Ubuntu desktop is already rebuilt
[02:04] <iwj> If it wasn't spinning up the cd occasionally I'd think it had crashed.
[02:12] <Kamion> iwj: can it switch tty?
[02:13] <infinity> Whoa, I just typed my GPG passphrase correctly, TWICE IN A ROW.
[02:13] <infinity> This is going to be a good day.
[02:13] <ogra> heh
[02:14] <kiko> infinity, choose one which doesn't have 98 characters in it?
[02:14] <iwj> Kamion: apparently not.  I'm trying it again with breezy to see if it worked then (this is the disk I bought this morning).
[02:14] <iwj> But I think I blame the installer because I saw something similar yesterday and blamed it on the old broken disk I was using.
[02:14] <infinity> kiko: That's not fair.. It's only about 32... They're just hard to get right with shift drift.
[02:16] <Kamion> iwj: I'd blame the kernel, not the installer, if you can't switch tty. The installer is an ordinary userspace process.
[02:16] <Kamion> Well, not perhaps entirely "ordinary", but in the relevant senses ...
[02:18] <infinity> iwj: Is this the same machine that exhibits the sketchy usplash behaviour?  If so, you may want to try booting with debian-installer/framebuffer=false
[02:19] <iwj> infinity: Yes, it's the same machine.
[02:19] <iwj> I'll give that a go when I've seen what breezy makes of it.
[02:24] <Keybuk> how long does it take to get a reply from bugs.debian.org now?
[02:26] <Kinnison> Keybuk: supposedly no more than 15 minutes or so
[02:26] <Keybuk> hmm
[02:26] <Keybuk> has been half an hour
[02:27] <ogra> Kamion, i had some complaints from testers that the new text "install in textmode" would be confusing (since they looked for a edubuntu server option) would that be hard to change for final ? (seems most translations still say "install to harddisk" anyway, could we revert that for edubuntu ) ?
[02:27] <ogra> s/revert that/revert to that/
[02:28] <infinity> Keybuk: It's been slow in the last day or two.  Not sure why.
[02:30] <Kamion> ogra: mdz explicitly asked me to change that to "install in text mode"
[02:31] <Kamion> ogra: oh, for Edubuntu? maybe, I guess
[02:31] <ogra> yep
[02:31] <mdz> fine with me
[02:31] <Kamion> I'd need to upload gfxboot-theme-ubuntu to get the translations for "install to hard disk" back, though
[02:32] <infinity> Kamion: I'm running kubuntu cron.daily-live on lithium right now, BTW.
[02:32] <Kamion> infinity: thanks
[02:32] <ogra> Kamion, i'm personally fine with both, so only do it if time permits
[02:33] <Kamion> I think it should be changed back to "Install to the hard disk" for the server CD as well, personally
[02:34] <ogra> yes, makes sense
[02:35] <ogra> dapper-dvd-i386.iso
[02:35] <ogra>   1957521269  58%   10.70kB/s   36:35:26
[02:35] <ogra> bah
[02:36] <Traveler1> .
[02:44] <looksaus> iwj, dholbach referred me to you here for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/40067
[02:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[02:45] <looksaus> I'm a bit caught between a stone and a hard place: afraid to bother you good people in such a busy period with something that might turn out of little importance
[02:45] <looksaus> and on the other side, a potentially showstopper firefox problem on ppc
[02:46] <looksaus> is there anything I can/should do to help you determine the seriousness of this problem?
[02:46] <sladen> looksaus: if it recovers after a few seconds, it's not a show-stopper
[02:47] <looksaus> sladen, it doesn't
[02:47] <sladen> looksaus: if it wipes your hard-drive, it's a showstopper
[02:47] <looksaus> if it makes firefox entirely unusable, is it a showstopper?
[02:47] <sladen> looksaus: okay, I read that as 'freezes for', sorry
[02:48] <sladen> looksaus: it's just been confirmed by mdke, hopefully iwj will get to it soon enough
[02:49] <ogra> he tried to already, but nobody in here could reproduce it yet
[02:49] <looksaus> ogra, this is an upgrade from breezy
[02:50] <looksaus> should I reinstall and try to see if the problem persists, or is there no value in that?
[02:50] <ogra> well, my ppc has never seen breezy, might be the cause, yes
[02:50] <infinity> looksaus: If you move your profile out of the way, does the problem persist?
[02:50] <looksaus> no
[02:50] <looksaus> err, I mean
[02:50] <looksaus> yes
[02:51] <looksaus> I'll add that info
[02:52] <mdke> sladen: not me, I don't think
[02:53] <HiddenWolf> sivang: re nautilus dnd: I think so, but I don't know for sure, no, sorry.
[02:53] <mdz> infinity: thanks for oo.o; is Mithrandir taking care of -amd64 or are you?
[02:53] <infinity> mdz: I'll roll it when the i386 build on terranova is done.
[02:58] <iwj> looksaus: Ah.  Hmm.
[02:58] <iwj> I don't think doing a fresh install is likely to be very informative.
[02:59] <Lathiat> anyone aware of a bug for the network monitor with wireless wasting lots of whitespace?
[03:01] <Kinnison> Lathiat: whitespace where?
[03:01] <iwj> looksaus: I think I'd like you to strace it.  So, strace -ttvfot /usr/bin/firefox and this will generate a file `t'.  Don't attach it to the bug report; it'll be huge.
[03:01] <Lathiat> between the normal network monitor
[03:01] <Lathiat> and the wireless signal part
[03:01] <Lathiat> and then on the right hand side of the signal part
[03:02] <Kinnison> Sure this isn't panel-packing issues? (I.E. is the whitespace sensitive and is it part of the applet?
[03:02] <Kinnison> )
[03:02] <Lathiat> yes becuase its part of the same applet
[03:02] <iwj> looksaus: Err, do you start it from a terminal, and if so do you see the glibc message referred to in the bug report ?
[03:02] <Kinnison> Lathiat: Odd. Perhaps seb128 or dholback will have an idea
[03:03] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/rc.png
[03:03] <Lathiat> between the "moinitors" the "signal bar" and the volume control
[03:03] <Lathiat> is all part of the network applet
[03:04] <infinity> Lathiat: dholbach's latest ubuntu-artwork upload has "shuffled netstatus icons around" in the changelog.
[03:04] <infinity> Lathiat: Can you try upgrading and see if that fixes it?
[03:04] <Lathiat> ok
[03:04] <Lathiat> also that new partition size slider seems useless
[03:05] <infinity> (version 25)
[03:05] <Lathiat> either option doesnt sensitize it
[03:05] <Lathiat> so at a guess theres another option but it should be hidden if its not displayed ?
[03:06] <infinity> Lathiat: Yeah, that bug is hardly release critical, but can you file it on ubiquity?
[03:08] <Kinnison> mdz: What's it doing to you now?
[03:08] <mdz> there is no need for it to ask me that question for every trivial change
[03:08] <Keybuk> infinity: which cd images have been built with the new mksplashfs
[03:08] <mdz> it asks a debconf question on every upgrade, regardless of whether it is relevant
[03:08] <infinity> Keybuk: ubuntu and kubuntu so far, edubuntu is on the way.
[03:08] <Keybuk> infinity: 20060526 are "new" then?
[03:09] <infinity> Keybuk: Check the timestamps?
[03:09] <Kinnison> mdz: question priority fucked?
[03:09] <ogra> oh, why do i get new builds ?
[03:09] <Keybuk> infinity: good point
[03:09] <Kinnison> ogra: because we love you
[03:09] <_ion> Of course i freaking want it to download the plugin from teh Internets. :-)
[03:09] <infinity> ogra: Just cause.
[03:09] <ogra> :P
[03:10] <Keybuk> infinity: according to the timestamps, edubuntu is done
[03:10] <infinity> Oh, so it is. :)
[03:10] <infinity> So, just waiting on Xubuntu then, for kicks, and all the desklivetop images are re-done and ready.
[03:11] <ogra> hrm, i'm just rsyncing the dvd ... :/
[03:16] <iwj> Hmm.  It's not offering me auto-resize.
[03:16] <bluefoxicy> gotta go to a mock interview, I'll bug this on launchpad when I get back; this is kinda dumb, but I tried to print in Firefox before actually installing a printer
[03:16] <Keybuk> iwj: the trick to that is to do an erase install, and then run the installer again
[03:16] <bluefoxicy> Firefox kinda... hanged... and didn't come back.
[03:16] <mdz> Kinnison: I think it's intentional and the maintainer is just crack-addled
[03:16] <Keybuk> if there's >3GB free after the erase install, you'll be offered auto-resize
[03:16] <Kinnison> mdz: yeesh
[03:16] <bluefoxicy> Anyways out *runs very fast*
[03:16] <iwj> Keybuk: I did a manual partitioning install and there ought to be plenty of space.
[03:16] <Kinnison> mdz: you want me to set it to medium and upload?
[03:16] <mdz> Kinnison: one needs to try hard to get debconf to ask the question again and again on every upgrade
[03:16] <Kinnison> mdz: Or do you have a fix done already?
[03:17] <Kamion> iwj: send me /var/log/partman and I'll look into why
[03:17] <Lathiat> hrm why does the default sources.list list multiverse for dapper-updates but not for dapper or dapper-security
[03:17] <Lathiat> it seems even if we dont want to recommend multiverse it should at least be included in security if its in updates unless the inclusion in udpates is a mistake?
[03:18] <mdz> Kinnison: it should only ask the question when there is a new upstream version available for it to fetch
[03:18] <mdz> Kinnison: no, I haven't touched it
[03:18] <Kamion> Lathiat: I think it's a bug that it's included for updates
[03:18] <Kamion> mdz: ^-- can I fix that?
[03:18] <Lathiat> (has been for a long time)
[03:19] <Kinnison> mdz: unfortunately I think there's only install/uninstall for the script, there's no "check"
[03:19] <Lathiat> so is it a policy not to list multiverse by default?
[03:19] <Lathiat> also - does ubiquity download the latest updates from the internet automatically?
[03:19] <Kamion> Lathiat: yes
[03:19] <Lathiat> i seem to have no updates upon reboot
[03:19] <Kamion> Lathiat: yes it's a policy not to list multiverse by default
[03:19] <Kamion> Lathiat: no, ubiquity doesn't download updates
[03:19] <Kamion> nor does the regular installer
[03:19] <Lathiat> hrm ah i guess ftp.uwa = au.archive must be out of date a bit
[03:20] <Kinnison> mdz: In fact, this whole package looks crack addled
[03:20] <Kinnison> mdz: but at least it's not ruby any more
[03:20] <infinity> I'd really like to resurrect the license-scary flashplayer-mozilla (which I still have installed), but that would require us getting a distribution license from Macromedia.
[03:21] <mdz> Kamion: commented or uncommented?
[03:21] <seb128> Kinnison, Lathiat: icon issues are for dholbach
[03:21] <Kinnison> seb128: thanks
[03:21] <seb128> np
[03:21] <Lathiat> seb128: cheers
[03:21] <mdz> infinity: I think there's a reasonable chance that they would grant one
[03:21] <mdz> s/would/will/
[03:21] <Kinnison> Then it could just go into multiverse properly?
[03:22] <infinity> mdz: I'm fairly sure they would, but I never got around to asking them. :/
[03:22] <infinity> Fell WAY off the bottom of my TODO.
[03:22] <Kamion> mdz: at present it is there uncommented for backports
[03:22] <infinity> s/backports/updates/?
[03:22] <Kamion> I can't actually see what would make it be there uncommented for updates
[03:23] <Kamion> but I'd like to fix the backports thing anyway
[03:23] <infinity> Err, we ship a backports line uncommented?
[03:23] <Kamion> oh, sorry, that one's commented
[03:24] <mdz> Kamion: happy to discuss whether to fix it once we can agree what the problem is ;-)
[03:24] <Kamion> hmm, how about I go look at an actual test install rather than zenning it from the code
[03:24] <iwj> Kamion: YHM.  It occurs to me that it may want to create a DOS Extended partition as well as a boot partition and I haven't left it enough primary slots for that.
[03:24] <kiko> can somebody with a kubuntu livecd reproduce iwj's bug 46404?
[03:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46404 in qtparted "partitioner locked up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46404
[03:24] <mdz> Kamion: I'm doing the same
[03:24] <Lathiat> ok yes wireless icons are much better in the update
[03:24] <Kamion> iwj: yes it always wants to create a primary for / and a logical for swap
[03:24] <Lathiat> altho the image changes its offset when it changes to the data receiv icon
[03:24] <Riddell> kiko: that's next on my todo to look at
[03:24] <Lathiat> i'll talk to dholbach 
[03:24] <Lathiat> dholbach: ping?
[03:24] <kiko> Riddell, cool
[03:25] <iwj> Kamion: That'll be it then.  (Although there's no reason why it couldn't use my existing swap ...)
[03:25] <kiko> Riddell, note also bug 46387 with the installer I think
[03:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46387 in ubiquity "crash going back from advanced partitioner" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46387
[03:25] <Kamion> iwj: yeah, partman is not very bright
[03:25] <kiko> Riddell, is there noone else that is triaging kubuntu bugs this week with you?
[03:25] <infinity> kiko: Is that the sound of you volunteering?
[03:25] <Kamion> ok, in a d-i install, I have multiverse commented-out for backport
[03:26] <Kamion> s
[03:26] <Kamion> that's probably sort of OK
[03:26] <kiko> infinity, I have access to a wide network of volunteers! 
[03:26] <mdz> Kamion: so we ship commented dapper/universe, dapper-backports/{main,restricted,universe,multiverse} and dapper-security/universe
[03:26] <mdz> Kamion: so dapper and dapper-security are consistent
[03:26] <Kamion> mdz: d-i or ubiquity?
[03:26] <Riddell> mdz: I've three things to upload if it's ok, changing guidance init script to 60, adept 2.0 which removes a debugging line that was filling .xsession and removing double menu entry for avahi-utils
[03:26] <Riddell> kiko: I have my usual helpers in #kubuntu-devel
[03:27] <infinity> mdz: We don't ship a commented dapper{,-security}/multiverse at all?
[03:27] <Kamion> infinity: we shouldn't; can't see one here
[03:27] <mdz> infinity: correct
[03:27] <Kamion> (I asked about that yonks back, and was told don't)
[03:27] <infinity> mdz: I mean, I'm not a huge non-free software nut, but do we need to make it that much harder for people who have no clue how to get at it?
[03:27] <Kamion> infinity: it's hardly difficult with "software properties" anyway
[03:27] <infinity> mdz: (sun-java, comes to mind, which we're even doing press releases about)
[03:27] <mdz> infinity: yeah, the example sources.list isn't as relevant these days
[03:28] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/sources.list.dapper
[03:28] <mdz> it's a checkbox
[03:28] <infinity> Kamion: I thought "software properties" only allowed you to enable/disable stuff that's already in the sources.list (ie: commented out)
[03:28] <Lathiat> also the backports line inconcistently listed main/restircted universe/multivere on the same line
[03:28] <Kamion> Lathiat: well, that sources.list only has multiverse for backports
[03:28] <Lathiat> hrm, guess i mis-read
[03:28] <Kamion> Lathiat: that's kind of intentional really, I don't want to bother with lots of commented blocks for backports
[03:28] <Lathiat> still, is that what we want?
[03:28] <Lathiat> Kamion: ah, right
[03:29] <Lathiat> do we still want multiverse in backports?
[03:29] <Kamion> I think, in fact, the sources.list you show is OK
[03:29] <Kamion> I can turn off multiverse there if people think that's better
[03:29] <seb128> trying edubuntu standard installation on that box, bbl
[03:29] <Lathiat> im not fussed but i think for consistency it should be removed
[03:29] <AlinuxOS> Thank You Guys for making Ubuntu so Amasing!  ;)
[03:29] <Lathiat> would make the lines less annoyingly long too.. :)
[03:30] <Lathiat> altho not quite to fit in an 8 terminal display unfortunately
[03:30] <Kamion> iwj: confirmed, you have:
[03:30] <Kamion> /lib/partman/automatically_partition/10resize_use_free/choices: 3 primary partitions, 0 logical partitions
[03:30] <Kamion> iwj: which is not enough for a primary and an extended to put the logical in
[03:30] <iwj> Kamion: Yes.
[03:30] <Kamion> there are two partman enhancements needed to make this better
[03:30] <Kamion> (1) make partman-auto able to reuse existing swap (though have to be careful, e.g. existing hibernated images)
[03:31] <iwj> Swap that might be hibernated into should have a different signature.
[03:31] <iwj> Then you'd be able to tell.
[03:31] <Riddell> mdz: can I upload those?
[03:31] <mjg59> It does
[03:31] <mjg59> Erm. Or rather, swap that /has/ a hibernated image in does
[03:32] <Kamion> (2) teach partman-auto that, while it needs to create a primary partition for / if there isn't already one, if there are already primary partitions it can just create a logical
[03:32] <iwj> mjg59: No, it has the same signature when it's not being a hibernated image.
[03:32] <Lathiat> swap that has a hibernated image does anyway
[03:32] <mdz> Riddell: those what?
[03:32] <mjg59> iwj: Indeed, but the kernel makes no distinction between these
[03:32] <iwj> And you can't tell whether it might become a hibernated image in the future.
[03:32] <Riddell> mdz: I've three things to upload if it's ok, changing guidance init script to 60, adept 2.0 which removes a debugging line
[03:32] <Riddell>                  that was filling .xsession and removing double menu entry for avahi-utils
[03:32] <Kamion> the existing recipe logic is optimised for blatting an existing disk rather than inserting a new installation into an existing one
[03:32] <Lathiat> iwj: as such migth be a bad idea to use else you wont have swap if you hibernate and switch os?
[03:32] <iwj> So if you reuse existing swap because this time the user happened to reboot, then next time when they hibernate the other OS and boot Ubuntu, it will refuse to swap it.
[03:33] <iwj> Lathiat: Right.
[03:33] <mdz> Riddell: the timing is not ideal for shuffling init scripts; what's the issue there?
[03:33] <mdz> Riddell: for the other two I'm happy to review debdiffs
[03:33] <Riddell> mdz: the script is at 37 and touches /usr, Keybuk tells me it should be at 60
[03:33] <Kamion> my feeling is that people with multiple Linux installations tend to avoid automatic partition setup programs anyway and will pick manual partitioning, so as long as it doesn't actually destroy data, that's OK
[03:33] <Riddell> mdz: http://www.ubuntu-zh.org/~freeflying/debdiff/avahi.debdiff
[03:33] <Lathiat> altho probably not somethign to do now, mimgh tbe worth considering creating swap files when no swap partition is active or something
[03:34] <Kamion> but I'm not sure. (2) is a more important enhancement and would solve iwj's problem too.
[03:34] <mdz> Riddell: avahi is fine to upload
[03:35] <infinity> Okay, just kicked off a Xubuntu destop image build for symmetry, and because janimo gives me warm fuzzies.
[03:36] <Lathiat> hrm why does the "Movie Player" menu item not prefixed with the program name like every other item in the sound & video menu?
[03:36] <infinity> Off to have myself a longish lunch, now.
[03:36] <Lathiat> well except sound recorder, but i dont think tha thas another name
[03:36] <ogra> Kamion, wow, that was fast, thanks !
[03:36] <Lathiat> and i bet often people will say "use totem" etc migh tbe less confusing if it was "Totem Movie Player"
[03:37] <infinity> Lathiat: I tend to agree on that point.
[03:37] <Lathiat> not just the s&v menu either, most menus are prefixed with program names
[03:38] <Lathiat> also is the Evolution Mail / Evolution an intentional distinction? 
[03:38] <Lathiat> (Internet vs Office)
[03:39] <infinity> Yeah, the one in "Office" should probably be called "Evolution Groupware" or something, though.
[03:40] <Lathiat> yeh i was thinking that
[03:40] <infinity> And perhaps not even visible by default.
[03:40] <infinity> But it's likely too late to be changing these strings.  I'm not sure how our crazy .desktop gettext stuff works.
[03:40] <Lathiat> hrm also ekiga seems to be complkaining it cant listen on the sip/h323 ports yet i have nothign else running, hrm
[03:40] <Lathiat> infinity: mm true
[03:40] <Kamion> ogra: just done the cdimage change too, though not deployed yet
[03:41] <ogra> thanks again :)
[03:41] <Nafallo> #j #ubuntu-loco
[03:41] <Lathiat> i dare say tho dapper is looking really polished overall, im impressed :)
[03:41] <sivang> HiddenWolf: I'll search nautilus bts upstream, maybe there is something there to just apply a patch and fix this annoying bug
[03:41] <Nafallo> hmm, does the locoteam have a channel? :-)
[03:44] <mdz> Riddell: ok to move the guidance init script if it's only a rules change, no maintainer script changes
[03:44] <mdz> Riddell: what other changes in adept 2.0?
[03:45] <Riddell> mdz: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/adept-20.diff
[03:45] <mdz> Riddell: adept OK to upload
[03:45] <Riddell> mdz: the guidance change is in postinst
[03:47] <infinity> mdz: You can't change an init script location without changing maintainer scripts, unless you want very strange undefined behaviour.
[03:47] <infinity> Riddell: In both postinst and debian/rules, I hope.
[03:48] <infinity> for i in 2 3 4 5; do if [ -L /etc/rc"$i".d/SNNfoo ] ; then mv oldloc newloc; done
[03:48] <infinity> Riddell: Like that?  ^^^
[03:49] <Riddell> infinity: rules just installs it to /etc/init.d/ postinst makes the links with "update-rc.d displayconfig-hwprobe.py start 60 S ."
[03:49] <Riddell> I just changed s/37/60/  if someone already has it installed to 37 it won't change it
[03:50] <infinity> Riddell: You mean, you don't use dh_installinit, but do it by hand in postinst?
[03:50] <infinity> Riddell: Anyhow, if you want it moved, you should move it, not say "some people will have it at 37, some at 60, whee"
[03:51] <bddebian> Howdy Ubuntu Guru's
[03:51] <Riddell> it doesn't use dh_installinit no
[03:52] <Riddell> I can indeed add the for loop infinity gives but it probably won't help with mdz allowing it :)
[03:53] <infinity> Riddell: Well, not much of a for loop, if you're installing in S... :)
[03:54] <infinity> Riddell: Just "if [ -L /etc/rcS.d/S37guidance ] ; then mv /etc/rcS.d/S37guidance /etc/rcS.d/S60guidance; done
[03:54] <infinity> s/done/fi/
[03:54] <infinity> Go IRC shell.
[03:54] <infinity> Or whatever the name of the script is.  But you get the idea.
[03:59] <mdz> Riddell: what I meant was that it shouldn't attempt to migrate the old symlink or any fancyness like that
[03:59] <mdz> Riddell: just changing update-rc.d is OK
[03:59] <Riddell> mdz: oh right, I'll just ignore infinity then
[04:01] <Riddell> mdz: http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/guidance.debdiff
[04:01] <mdz> Riddell: 404
[04:02] <Riddell> mdz: sorry, http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/guidance.debdiff
[04:02] <mdz> Riddell: OK to upload
[04:02] <Riddell> thanks mdz 
[04:05] <mdke> what does "pn" mean when it appears by the name of a program when listing with dpkg?
[04:06] <Keybuk> purged, not installed
[04:06] <mdke> Keybuk: thanks. seems that when you purge sendmail it doesn't remove any of the configuration files, and still tries to start stuff on booting up
[04:07] <Keybuk> mdke: what does sudo dpkg --purge --pending do?
[04:08] <mdke> Keybuk: nothing
[04:08] <ogra> yippie, my dvd is done ...
[04:08] <Keybuk> mdke: probably sendmail package bug then, hasn't cleaned up after itself
[04:08] <mdke> Keybuk: yeah, i think it is. It's at #43752
[04:08] <Keybuk> if they were dpkg conffiles, you'd see either pc or rc as the status
[04:09] <mdke> thanks
[04:09] <iwj> infinity: d-i/fb=false made the install work properly.  But it's a regression from breezy, which installed just fine without.
[04:12] <Lathiat> infinity: hrm, i take it its also too late to change "Totem Movie Player" ?
[04:15] <mdke> Lathiat: for the menu? It's currently "Movie Player", isn't it?
[04:20] <Lathiat> mdke: yes
[04:21] <mdke> Lathiat: a few months back I suggested changing it in Ubuntu and upstream and got turned down on both occasions
[04:21] <Lathiat> mdke: hrm
[04:21] <Lathiat> mdke: to me it makes senmse, because all the other items are similar
[04:22] <Lathiat> and people e.g. in supprot channels will say "use totem" when people say "what movie player do i use" etc
[04:22] <Lathiat> did ubuntu/upstream give reasoning?
[04:22] <mdke> upstream rely on some spurious interpretation of the HIG
[04:22] <mdke> I'll find the bug
[04:22] <dholbach> Lathiat: pong
[04:22] <mdke> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331919 <- Lathiat 
[04:22] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 331919 in general "Change Totem's entry in the GNOME menu" [Normal,Resolved: notabug]  
[04:22] <dholbach> Kinnison: pong
[04:22] <Kinnison> dholbach: erm I've utterly forgotten what I pinged you about
[04:23] <dholbach> Kinnison: something about icons?
[04:23] <Lathiat> dholbach: let me find the bug i just filed
[04:23] <Kinnison> dholbach: Erm, oh yeah, the g-p-m icon in the about is apparently wrong
[04:23] <dholbach> Kinnison: seb128 pointed you and Lathiat to me about icons
[04:23] <Kinnison> Oh and that, yes, bug lathiat
[04:23] <dholbach> Kinnison: yes it is, i'll try to make that change happen as well - got a bug about it already - thanks.
[04:23] <Lathiat> hrm why does the g-p-m icon disappear when the battery is full
[04:24] <Lathiat> that seems like a silly default
[04:24] <Kinnison> Lathiat: because you have it set to show the icon only when charging or discharging
[04:24] <mdke> yes, I don't think that is the default
[04:24] <Lathiat> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-artwork/+bug/46752
[04:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46752 in ubuntu-artwork "network monitor icon changes offset when activity occurs" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[04:24] <Lathiat> i havent touched a thing
[04:24] <Lathiat> fresh install
[04:24] <dholbach> Lathiat: that bug is already filed
[04:24] <mdke> Kinnison: is that still the default?
[04:24] <Lathiat> dholbach: oh? i couldnt see it
[04:24] <Lathiat> i have opened the prefs dialog to gpm, but didnt change anything
[04:24] <dholbach> Lathiat: duplicate of bug 45658
[04:24] <ogra> Kinnison, dholbach, mind fixing bug 45536 alongside (whoever fixes the icon prob of you two) ?
[04:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45658 in ubuntu-artwork "Human netstatus icone" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45658
[04:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45536 in gnome-power-manager "Shutdown, but logoff" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45536
[04:24] <Kinnison> mdke: yes, and no I'm *NOT* talking about it
[04:25] <Lathiat> eh thats a terrible title :)
[04:25] <dholbach> Lathiat: i agree
[04:25] <dholbach> ogra: thanks
[04:25] <mdke> Kinnison: ok. Is there a bug report which explains the reasons for that choice of default?
[04:25] <dholbach> Kinnison: mind if I add that dependency?
[04:25] <Kinnison> ogra: that bug is very odd
[04:25] <Kinnison> dholbach: Go for it
[04:26] <dholbach> Kinnison: rock on
[04:26] <ogra> Kinnison, but the dep should be there, seb128 is right :)
[04:26] <dholbach> of course is seb128 right :-p
[04:26] <ogra> hehe, yes, indeed i wouldnt doubt that
[04:26] <dholbach> :-)
[04:26] <ogra> can you bring soem to paris ? 
[04:26] <ogra> *some
[04:27] <sivang> dholbach: I also want one :)
[04:28] <seb128> edubuntu CD hates me
[04:28] <seb128> everytime I do a new rsync it seems to download the whole CD again
[04:28] <pygi> sivang, I need bzr repo for HUB
[04:28] <ogra> sivang, there is a bug in bzrk, it doesnt show the diff window 
[04:28] <ogra> sivang, if youre after fixing dapper bugs ;)
[04:28] <sivang> ogra: hmm, does it crash or something? or just not show it?
[04:30] <ogra> sivang, you can click on the little icon that should bring up the diff window and get a traceback test yourself :) ... its not merely critical, but youre already in that code so i tought you might be intrested to fix it ;)
[04:30] <ogra> seb128, but you noted that the isos are not named alternate and desktop ?
[04:30] <iwj> I take it I'm not mistaken when I think that DapperUpgrades doesn't really apply to kubuntu.  I'll use DapperReleaseNotes/Kubuntu instead.
[04:30] <moberg> JaneW: how does it go with the mentors?
[04:30] <pygi> moberg, hm, what do you mean?
[04:31] <Riddell> iwj: you're right, it doesn't
[04:31] <moberg> "<JaneW> moberg: we had some duplication issues just before the announcements were made, so there was some frantic shuffling, BUT the mentor assignment function is currently frozen, so I am waiting for google to give me access again"
[04:31] <seb128> ogra: I do use "rsync -azvP cdimage.ubuntu.com::cdimage/edubuntu/daily/current/dapper-install-amd64.iso dapper-install-edubuntu-amd64.iso"
[04:31] <sivang> ogra: sure, I will take a look then :)
[04:32] <ogra> hmm,k
[04:32] <sivang> pygi: just a sec
[04:32] <ogra> seb128, works for me 
[04:32] <seb128> ogra: I just tried an install with the image from the 24th which didn't work (kino not installable)
[04:32] <moberg> pygi: i have not been assigned any mentor yet :/
[04:32] <iwj> Riddell: Right.  I've updated Testing/Current's table.
[04:32] <ogra> seb128, amd64 was oversized until 24th
[04:32] <seb128> ogra: waiting for the rsync to be done to try again ;)
[04:32] <sivang> pygi: https://launchpad.net/people/sivan/+branch/hubackup/devel-main
[04:32] <ogra> dapper-live-amd64.iso
[04:32] <ogra>    688644096 100%    3.76MB/s    0:02:54  (1, 100.0% of 1)
[04:32] <ogra> wroks fine here 
[04:33] <seb128> ogra: BTW why do you use the ugly xorg cursor? to spare the disk space of a nice cursor theme?
[04:34] <ogra> seb128, the cursor was set in Xorg since warty to jimmac/Human as default, i didnt know we'd move that into the artwork packages
[04:34] <Riddell> iwj: thanks
[04:34] <Riddell> ogra: it's never been in xorg
[04:35] <pygi> simira, thanks :)
[04:35] <pygi> moberg, pm please
[04:35] <ogra> Riddell, so why did it work for me without -artwork installed before ? and now i need -artwork ? 
[04:36] <Riddell> ogra: dunno, but I've always had to ship a kubuntu copy of the cursor theme
[04:36] <ogra> hmm
[04:37] <seb128> ogra: maybe you were using a cursor from industrial or xcursor-themes by example?
[04:37] <ogra> hmm
[04:37] <ogra> we never used a specific cursor in edubuntu 
[04:38] <ogra> it was always there by default 
[04:38] <ogra> i'll look into it 
[04:39] <theine> Hi, I heard of quite a few reports about Espresso's buggy behaviour. Is there any substance to that? I haven't tried it myself
[04:41] <Riddell> theine: try it an find out?
[04:41] <Riddell> theine: it's call ubiquity now
[04:41] <fabbione> theine: not anymore.
[04:41] <pygi> moberg, you around still?
[04:41] <pygi> sivang, just pulling the source
[04:41] <moberg> pygi: yepp
[04:41] <pygi> moberg, well, you reading my PM?
[04:42] <moberg> pygi: yes, and i've replied :)
[04:42] <pygi> ergh, wait
[04:42] <pygi> moberg, try responding again :-/
[04:42] <theine> Riddell: well, in case it works for me, i still don't have very good statistics...
[04:42] <theine> fabbione: that's nice to know
[04:43] <fabbione> theine: well like any new development project it had bugs.. also bad ones. Nothing to hide. They have been addressed and fixed.
[04:43] <fabbione> theine: but there will be always one true test.. your :)
[04:44] <fabbione> theine: Kamion did an amazing job there to get them sorted and killed.
[04:44] <fabbione> theine: but rumors are more difficult than bugs to kill
[04:45] <Kamion> theine: what fabbione said. I've certainly had a lot of bug reports (very many of them duplicates, incidentally), but I only want to hear about real bugs, not rumours of bugs
[04:45] <theine> Kamion: yes, of course
[04:45] <Kamion> and yes, it was being done on a very tight schedule so the version in especially the beta release was pretty ropey
[04:47] <pygi> moberg, just join #socdiss
[04:48] <theine> Anyway, I'm glad you guys sorted out the ubiquity bugs. Great work, I really appreciate it.
[04:48] <moberg> pygi: done
[04:49] <infinity> iwj: It's a known regression on a very small subset of hardware, while we've fixed the framebuffer for a much larger subset of other hardware. :/
[04:49] <infinity> iwj: I'd like to get it perfect for everyone (and probably can for edgy), but I need access to hardware like yours, and I need to not do it 5 days before release. :)
[04:54] <sivang> pygi: I just upgraded to knits, so if you branched 30 minutes ago, you might using the old format.
[04:55] <pygi> sivang, ah,ok
[04:55] <sivang> pygi: did you have trouble branching from me?
[04:56] <iwj> infinity: Sure.  I mean, it doesn't hugely bother me but I thought you should know.
[04:56] <pygi> sivang, it stopped at like 30% or something :P
[04:56] <moberg> Im in need of a mentor for my SoC project. "Applications to improve Ubuntu", the task that I has in mind is to write an application, "Desktop panel look-and-feel mode changer". But i need a mentor to get started
[04:57] <sivang> pygi: crap, sorry, this is probably because I upgraded to knits during that time
[04:57] <sivang> pygi: just rm -rf and bzr branch again
[04:57] <pygi> sivang, just doing now :)
[04:58] <neuralis> moberg_: vuntz said he'd be ok with mentoring you.
[04:59] <iwj> Riddell: Is it really your considered opinion that editing the sources.list with adept is easier than (say) vi, ed, or cat ?
[05:00] <moberg_> neuralis: great!
[05:00] <vuntz> moberg_: hi :-)
[05:00] <moberg_> vuntz: hi there :)
[05:00] <Riddell> iwj: for GUI type people yes
[05:00] <iwj> You must be joking.
[05:00] <moberg_> vuntz: have you read my application?
[05:00] <vuntz> moberg_: in fact, I'm wondering if seb128 would have more time than me :-)
[05:00] <vuntz> moberg_: yep
[05:00] <iwj> It's really freaky and keeps undoing stuff and the instructions on ReleaseNotes are IMO hopeless.
[05:01] <vuntz> I guess I can help mentoring, but I might be a bit short in time. Maybe co-mentoring with seb128 would be the best solution?
[05:01] <KaiL> .torrent fie for ubuntu-6.06-rc-desktop-i386.iso broken?
[05:01] <seb128> vuntz: I would be happy by co-mentoring, I'll have a month of June busy
[05:01] <seb128> vuntz: 1 week of VAC, 1 week of summit and GUADEC ....
[05:01] <pygi> vuntz, then please do talk with JaneW about assigning you
[05:02] <iwj> Riddell: `will allow you to change the distribution from breezy to dapper'.  Ie, on each line, click and click again until you get to edit the `distribution' box, and then edit `breezy' into `dapper' and then _press return_ (or it discards your change) and go on to the next line ...
[05:02] <vuntz> pygi: I have a query opened with JaneW, but she's probably away right now :-)
[05:02] <iwj> mvo: I'm supposed to be testing what the user is going to do.  The user is going to follow the release notes.
[05:02] <JaneW> vuntz: hello, ping
[05:03] <vuntz> well, she's here now :-)
[05:03] <pygi> vuntz, see? :)
[05:03] <vuntz> pygi: it's because of your magic!
[05:03] <JaneW> heh
[05:03] <iwj> mvo: But, you have upgrade tools for kubuntu ?
[05:03] <pygi> sivang, is your bzr archive pullable?
[05:03] <pygi> I got some errors :-/
[05:04] <JaneW> vuntz:  will you mentor http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=moberg.peter%40gmail.com%3Af237bdd2%3Aa4b48a6d please? The student is moberg_ , and he wants communicate with his mentor.
[05:04] <iwj> Oh and don't forget to click `apply' before `close' or it just discards your changes.
[05:04] <mvo> iwj: *cough* it will work fine on kubuntu - but its not the official and blessed way there
[05:04] <iwj> mvo: Maybe it should be.
[05:04] <vuntz> JaneW: looks like seb128 and I just decided to co-mentor moberg_ :-)
[05:04] <neuralis> mvo: would you be okay with mentoring the zeroconf apt proxy?
[05:05] <vuntz> JaneW: so you can put either seb128 or me as mentor in the google webapp
[05:05] <neuralis> mvo: you had expressed interest in the comments.
[05:05] <pygi> neuralis, he also has one higher priority project
[05:05] <dieman> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/manpages/+bug/6416 and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=348028 are depressing to stare at.
[05:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6416 in manpages "Symlink to missing manpage is installed." [Minor,Confirmed]  
[05:05] <mvo> neuralis: I'm certainly interessted, I mentor someone else though. I would still be happy to give input. AFAIK doko voiced some interesst
[05:05] <infinity> Okay, guys, I'm exhausted from the marathon session yesterday, and working a fair chunk of today.  I'm off to bed.
[05:05] <JaneW> vuntz: are you happy for me to put you are the 'official' mentor (for admin purposes) since seb128 has one already?
[05:05] <iwj> infinity: Sleep well.
[05:06] <sivang> pygi: it is
[05:06] <JaneW> vuntz: how you actually divide the responsibility is up to you
[05:06] <neuralis> infinity: 'night, get some sleep.
[05:06] <sivang> pygi: what errors did you get?
[05:06] <vuntz> JaneW: it's not important to me (I'm already (co-)mentoring two projects for GNOME)
[05:06] <JaneW> moberg_: congrats, you have 2 mentors :)
[05:06] <moberg_> JaneW: :)
[05:06] <mvo> iwj: I'm not sure if Riddell would be happy about it, it drag in some gtk packages - OTOH the source is designed to make new frontends easy, for edgy we can probably get a qt version
[05:06] <vuntz> JaneW: so you can take this for a "yes" if it makes your life easier ;-)
[05:06] <pygi> neuralis, can you find someone else for that?
[05:06] <pygi> we also need admin for "ubuntu welcome center"
[05:06] <pygi> sivang, sent you in pm
[05:07] <mvo> neuralis: this is not your application, is it?
[05:07] <JaneW> vuntz: excellent thanks, not I just need google to open the interface so I can actually do the assigning
[05:07] <neuralis> mvo: ha, no. :)
[05:07] <infinity> Keybuk: Did we ever confirm that all (or some) of the new desktop CDs seem happy?
[05:07] <seb128> moberg_: probably better to hang on #ubuntu-desktop than here to discuss desktop changes to do ;)
[05:07] <pygi> sivang, I'll try again :)
[05:07] <Riddell> a port of the upgrade tool to kubuntu is in my edgy plans
[05:07] <sivang> pygi: okay, I will try myself from scratch
[05:08] <neuralis> pygi: mvo mentioned doko, could you ping him about it? if no one can be found, i'm open to the possibility of mentoring it myself, and consulting with mvo as we go along.
[05:08] <Keybuk> infinity: I'm still rsyncing them
[05:08] <Keybuk> was going to a burn-them-all-and-test-them-all run
[05:08] <Keybuk> seeing as I have all three arches in front of me now
[05:08] <pygi> neuralis, I can surely try
[05:09] <mvo> neuralis: I'm happy to co-mentor, I like the idea, but I think it needs some serious thought about the design
[05:09] <Keybuk> about ~1hr I guess
[05:09] <infinity> Keybuk: Ahh, fair enough.  Yell at me in backscroll if something seems goofy about them, I'm going to go catch a nap longer than 2 hours this time. :/
[05:09] <pygi> anyone here interested in mentoring "ubuntu welcome center"?
[05:09] <seb128> vuntz?
[05:09] <sivang> pygi: I am , what does it invlove?
[05:10] <pygi> sivang, you can see it here
[05:10] <pygi> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=ghee22%40gmail.com%3A19ff4490%3Ad5c0903d
[05:10] <seb128> heh
[05:10] <pygi> btw. sivang it seems that bzr is pulling OK now
[05:10] <pygi> we'll see tho
[05:10] <sivang> pygi: cool
[05:11] <Kamion> moberg_: BTW for your first application, grub-reboot is the tool you want
[05:11] <neuralis> mvo: yes, agreed. it's very easy to come up with a completely broken design for it.
[05:11] <Kamion> moberg_: may not quite work in dapper - I don't remember for sure - but it should definitely work once we merge from Debian early edgy
[05:12] <Kamion> much better than futzing with menu.lst
[05:13] <pygi> sivang, if you are interested in mentoring that, just poke JaneW about it
[05:13] <JaneW> sivang: you want Ubuntu Welcome Center  ?
[05:14] <sfllaw> Kamion: Of course.
[05:15] <fabbione> zakame: ping?
[05:15] <sivang> JaneW: well, if nobody else want to love it, I will, but having a co-mentor in fallback mode when I require specific things could be good.
[05:15] <sivang> JaneW: but I am interested, yes.
[05:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46743 in ubiquity "Installer crashed during language pack installation" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46743
[05:17] <sivang> JaneW: also, I'm short of some t-shirts :p
[05:19] <JaneW> sivang: we may have another plan
[05:20] <JaneW> we have an unallocated official mentor...
[05:21] <pygi> sivang, I'll get three...need one? :)
[05:22] <sivang> heh
[05:22] <sivang> JaneW: no prob
[05:23] <sivang> pygi: nah, 'sokay , was joking.
[05:26] <sivang> pygi: if I don't help a SoC applicant I would not feel comfortable to wear one :p
[05:26] <Kamion> OH
[05:26] <pygi> sivang, :)
[05:27] <Kamion> mdz: bug 46743 is because g-s-t offers an option to install NTP, which just uses synaptic to install them on the spot - but that fails because the debconf db is locked
[05:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46743 in ubiquity "Installer crashed during language pack installation" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46743
[05:27] <Kamion> (by ubiquity)
[05:27] <pygi> sivang, you'll be "mentoring" that Annant guy anyway :)
[05:28] <mdz> Kamion: I don't see what we can do about it
[05:28] <mdz> they could also open Synaptic separately and then try to run Ubiquity; I assume that'd fail too
[05:29] <Kamion> yeah, but this is an option presented (indirectly) by ubiquity
[05:29] <Kamion> actually it might be possible to make the installation work if file descriptors were connected up properly, but not really for dapper
[05:30] <Kamion> my other thought is to somehow catch the invocation of synaptic by g-s-t (e.g. by munging its $PATH and installing a little wrapper script) and queue the packages for installation instead
[05:30] <Kamion> I would ignore it for dapper if it wasn't that it fucks up ubiquity later
[05:31] <Kamion> in a highly non-intuitively-obvious way
[05:31] <mdz> sfllaw: how is the fire hose tasting today?
[05:32] <mdz> Kamion: I'd say we should invoke g-s-t in a way which causes it not to offer the option
[05:32] <sfllaw> mdz: The water is foul.
[05:34] <doko> neuralis: I did talk with JaneW about mentoring apt-proxy
[05:34] <mvo> Kamion: what about adding a option to time-admin "--installer-mode" and that will hide the install-ntp button?
[05:34] <Kamion> mdz: I've been trying to figure out how to do that. It apparently chooses whether to offer the option based on whether synaptic is on $PATH.
[05:34] <Kamion> mvo: that would work, although an environment variable might be simpler
[05:34] <Kamion> (in patch volume, if nothing else)
[05:34] <mvo> Kamion: yeah, even better
[05:34] <mdz> sfllaw: anything I should know about?
[05:35] <mvo> Kamion: I can do that quickly if you want
[05:35] <Kamion> perhaps $NO_INSTALL_NTP?
[05:35] <nuzzy> any talk of getting CUPS 1.2.1 in?
[05:35] <seb128> no
[05:36] <Kamion> mvo: yes, please
[05:36] <mvo> Kamion: GST_NO_INSTALL_NTP ?
[05:36] <mdz> Kamion: are the current amd64 DVDs built with fixed squashfses?
[05:38] <Kamion> mvo: works for me
[05:38] <\sh> did anybody work with SE Linux Kernel feature and ubuntu server?
[05:38] <Kamion> mdz: No. I'll trigger a build now.
[05:38] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[05:39] <Kamion> mvo: I've assigned half of 46743 to you, then
[05:39] <infinity> \sh: We didn't concentrate on any SELinux stuff for this release, no.  I suspect it'll get looked at a bit more in edgy.
[05:39] <mvo> Kamion: done, testing it now 
[05:39] <\sh> infinity: ok..then you get some testresults next week....our security guy is testing now ubuntu server kernel with se linux and the utilities :)
[05:40] <\sh> our suse consultant is getting nervous right now
[05:41] <infinity> \sh: Err, we don't enable SEL in the Ubuntu kernels at all...
[05:41] <Keybuk> I thought we did
[05:41] <tseng> we did, once
[05:41] <\sh>  [*]    NSA SELinux Support    
[05:41] <mdz> infinity: we certainly do
[05:41] <\sh> -23
[05:41] <Keybuk> quest scott% grep SELINUX /boot/config-2.6.15-23-amd64-k8
[05:41] <Keybuk> CONFIG_SECURITY_SELINUX=y
[05:42] <mdz> that is, we build in the support but don't turn it on by default
[05:42] <tseng> it is totally passive by default.
[05:42] <Keybuk> you just have to boot with selinux=on or something, right?
[05:42] <mdz> yes
[05:42] <Keybuk> tseng: like infinity then ;)
[05:42] <tseng> the kernel command line can give you various levels of enforcement
[05:42] <infinity> mdz: Oh, so we do.  I just never noticed until I grepped the config.
[05:43] <infinity> (Could have something to do with it being disabled by default)
[05:43] <tseng> the policies for debian have never really been worked on enough
[05:43] <\sh> at least we can enable it from the boot loader which is enough for us right now...
[05:44] <tseng> \sh: you should help flesh out the base policies :)
[05:44] <iwj> Ah, lovely, themes turning up now, after the last moment of course.
[05:44] <mdz> iwj: you have no idea how deep that particular swamp goes
[05:45] <\sh> tseng: if we can push ubuntu for this company ubuntu will get more SEL love 
[05:47] <ajmitch> the policies are being worked on for debian, and I was hoping to do something about it for edgy..
[05:48] <ajmitch> since it just wasn't useful working on the reference policy for dapper
[05:49] <infinity> hunger: We know.
[05:49] <hunger> Is that known? Well, it is not releasecritical anyway.
[05:49] <infinity> iwj: I guess you never dug to the bottom of that one?
[05:49] <infinity> hunger: It's harmless, just ugly.
[05:50] <infinity> hunger: And has been happening for eons.
[05:50] <iwj> infinity: No.
[05:50] <\sh> ok..travelling home now...cu later this night :)
[05:50] <hunger> infinity: Strange... I have not noticed it in a long time. Must have gotten used to it:-)
[05:51] <iwj> infinity: It's ages ago now but it was quite deep (and not always reproducible) and since it's really just cosmetic I thought I'd leave it.
[05:52] <infinity> iwj: Yeah, at this point, it's too late, but cosmetic counts for a lot, so I would like to see it solved for edgy, maybe.
[05:53] <hunger> infinity: The messed up shutdown graphics in kubuntu are really ugly and way more visible:-( I assume people are looking into that though.
[05:53] <infinity> iwj: Cosmetic counts for A) people wanting Ubuntu to be as shiny as possible, but also B) the 8000 people who report this bug in both Debian and Ubuntu becuase OMG, MY SYSTEM MUST BE BROKEN!
[05:53] <infinity> hunger: I've not even booted a kubuntu CD, but I've heard talk of this, yes.  I should check it out after I sleep.
[05:53] <Riddell> hunger: on which CD?
[05:53] <hunger> Riddell: I have a current dapper updated all the way from breezy.
[05:55] <bddebian> I have a kubuntu install CD I can try if you want?
[05:55] <iwj> mdz: Oh, it turns out I was wrong.  I've just found the .upload file.  But the package isn't in the archive.
[05:56] <hunger> Riddell: I have had this problem (either messed up graphics or blue text) ever since you introduced the graphical shutdown.
[05:56] <mdz> iwj: it's not in the queue either
[05:56] <hunger> Riddell: Actually I saw the proper graphics a couple of times, but mostly it is a huge mess.
[05:56] <Kamion> iwj: what was the package name? I'll check the logs
[05:57] <hunger> Riddell: It does work perfectly once the splash-thingy is restarted during the shutdown process.
[05:57] <Kamion> iwj: (and date of upload, if you can)
[05:57] <iwj> ubuntu-php-firefox-human_0.4.1_source.changes
[05:58] <iwj> upload.ubuntu.com Thu May 18 16:15:02 2006
[05:58] <Keybuk> ok
[05:58] <Keybuk> some wise guy changed the behaviour of snprintf
[05:58] <mdz> Keybuk: eh?
[05:59] <Keybuk> mdz: snprintf used to return -1 if size wasn't big enough
[05:59] <Keybuk> now it seems to return "the length of the string you need to allocate"
[05:59] <Kamion> iwj: I think you forgot to sign it, and a known LP bug meant that you didn't get told.
[05:59] <Kamion> 15:15:06 DEBUG   Verifying signature on ubuntu-php-firefox-human_0.4.1_source.changes
[05:59] <Kamion> 15:15:06 DEBUG   UploadError made it out of .process()
[05:59] <Kamion>  -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/2732104/xNqik8vaaoIanbEQPuBHrMqWhqz.txt (GPG verification of ubuntu-php-firefox-human_0.4.1_source.changes failed: No data)
[06:00] <mdz> Keybuk: I think it's always been that way in glibc
[06:00] <mdz> though it varies elsewhere
[06:00] <Kamion> iwj: can you sign and reupload?
[06:00] <Keybuk> mdz: glibc 2.1 it changed, apparently
[06:00] <iwj> Uh, so I didn't.  I blame cvs-buildpackage.
[06:00] <mdz> Keybuk: i.e. before the dawn of time
[06:00] <desrt> mjg59; i want to be elite like you
[06:00] <desrt> mjg59; how are you so cool?
[06:00] <iwj> I need to get the latest version anyway.
[06:01] <Keybuk> mdz: hey, I started on Linux in the days before shadow passwords and when we still had the BSD libc ;)
[06:01] <Keybuk> iwj still has the BSD libc on this laptop, iirc ;)
[06:01] <desrt> mjg59; specifically, know any good techniques for finding out what is happening in the wee moments after my macbook wakes up?
[06:02] <mvo> Kamion: ok to upload g-s-t now? "export GST_NO_INSTALL_NTP=1" will work now
[06:02] <iwj> Keybuk: SuSv3 specifies the new (sane) behaviour.  http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/snprintf.html
[06:02] <iwj> Urr, actually, no.
[06:03] <Keybuk> iwj: C99 does
[06:03] <iwj> They fail to specify what happens if your buffer is too small but nonzero.
[06:04] <Keybuk> C99 has nice things actually
[06:04] <Keybuk> "If n is zero, nothing is written, and s may be a null pointer."
[06:04] <mdz> mvo: ping?
[06:04] <mvo> mdz: pong
[06:05] <Kamion> mvo: yes please
[06:05] <Kamion> +        time_admin_env['GST_NO_INSTALL_NTP']  = '1'
[06:05] <mjg59> desrt: What are you running?
[06:06] <desrt> mjg59; dapper on a spiffy new white macbook
[06:06] <sivang> ogra: I have a patch :)
[06:06] <mjg59> Using boot camp?
[06:06] <sivang> ogra: re: bzrk
[06:06] <desrt> using the legacy booting capability of the new firmware
[06:06] <mjg59> Right
[06:06] <mjg59> Erm
[06:06] <mjg59> What currently happens?
[06:06] <desrt> i've tried the usual suspects
[06:07] <desrt> ie: close down X, remove drivers, echo 3 into the sleep file manually
[06:07] <ogra> sivang, great
[06:07] <desrt> basically, it sleeps just fine
[06:07] <desrt> but when it wakes up it's dead
[06:07] <mjg59> acpi_sleep=s3_bios and removing the "quiet" boot option may result in some output on resume
[06:07] <sivang> ogra: will upload shortly
[06:07] <ogra> thanks :)
[06:07] <sivang> ogra: you're welcome!
[06:07] <desrt> screen fails to come back and even the capslock is screwed
[06:07] <desrt> k.  lemme try that.
[06:08] <mjg59> desrt: Given that grub won't work, I wouldn't recommend it
[06:08] <desrt> oh.  what's wrong with it?
[06:08] <mjg59> Uses unimplemented BIOS functions
[06:08] <desrt> ah
[06:09] <desrt> i can just toss that acpi_sleep argument at the end of the lilo line, right?
[06:09] <desrt> like 'dapper acpi_sleep=s3_bios'
[06:10] <mjg59> Yeah
[06:10] <mjg59> But you need to remove "quiet" as well
[06:10] <desrt> thx for the tip.
[06:10] <hunger> mjg59: Do you know of any progress on the shutdown-after-resume issue on some thinkpads?
[06:11] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-1.0.8.diff <- OK to upload?
[06:11] <Kamion> glade changes are tiny and tested, rest should be obvious
[06:12] <mvo> urgh, I just uploaded without puting a debdiff up (looked at the diff beforehand of course)
[06:13] <iwj> Oh, bloody hell, Frank Schoep's crazy box has vanished entirely now.
[06:13] <highvoltage> mvo: who doesn't? :)
[06:13] <Kamion> mvo: I'd have expected a one- or two-liner anyway
[06:13] <Kamion> just add getenv("GST_NO_INSTALL_NTP") to the relevant if
[06:14] <mvo> Kamion: yes, that is what I did
[06:14] <Kamion> good
[06:14] <desrt> bah.  no love.
[06:16] <pitti> hi
[06:16] <desrt> good morning
[06:16] <pitti> congrats to the RC! So you guys could fix the amd64 sqashfs issue?
[06:16] <pitti> hi desrt 
[06:16] <pygi> hello pitti, and congrats on mentoring :)
[06:16] <seb128> hey pitti
[06:16] <mdz> Kamion: did we find any safe workaround for the button sensitivity/focus issue?
[06:16] <pitti> seb128: greetings from Switzerland!
[06:17] <sivang> pitti: you in swiss ? :)
[06:17] <thom> pitti: read scott's changelog for squashfs . it's pretty funny
[06:17] <pitti> sivang: yes, visiting a friend of mine and Zurich
[06:17] <seb128> pitti: how is Switzerland? enjoying it? ;)
[06:17] <sivang> pitti: oh cool!
[06:17] <mvo> pitti: don't forget to buy some chocolate 
[06:17] <mvo> and cheese
[06:18] <pygi> mvo, watches :)
[06:18] <thom> mountains, but they're tricky to buy
[06:18] <pygi> clocks :-P
[06:18] <pygi> thom, lol :)
[06:18] <pitti> thom: lol :) not that it would tell me what the bug was, but it's nice to read
[06:18] <pitti> mvo: Cheese, mountains, Victorinox Swiss Army Knifes
[06:18] <seb128> thom: if you can go to space you can probably buy a mountain too :p
[06:19] <thom> seb128: true true. although taking it home in one piece might be entertaining
[06:19] <mdz> Kamion: OK to upload
[06:19] <seb128> thom: right ;)
[06:19] <iwj> Woohoo.  I upgraded kubuntu breezy -> dapper and now it's completely hosed.
[06:19] <iwj> I'll see if it's any better after a reboot.
[06:19] <seb128> mdz: did you read that mail about poppler issue?
[06:19] <seb128> opinion on it?
[06:19] <mdz> seb128: no
[06:20] <pitti> Keybuk: *hug*
[06:20] <mdz> seb128: where?
[06:20] <seb128> mdz: the mail is on ubuntu-devel
[06:21] <seb128> patch from bug #24970 is an ABI change it looks like
[06:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 24970 in poppler "evince crashes when highlighting text at line end" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/24970
[06:21] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tetex-base/+bug/42075
[06:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42075 in tetex-base "includegraphics fails" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[06:21] <seb128> is due to it
[06:21] <Riddell> iwj: you'll need to restart kde
[06:23] <pitti> seb128: argh, did you see this poppler shlibs bump email?
[06:23] <seb128> pitti: cf what I'm saying on that chan
[06:23] <pitti> seb128: oh, right, you are discussing it right now
[06:23] <pitti> sorry
[06:23] <seb128> np
[06:24] <mdz> seb128: looks like it should probably be reverted, but this can wait until after release
[06:24] <pitti> seb128: revert patch or rebuild packages?
[06:24] <iwj> Riddell: Why do the instructions not say to do so ?
[06:24] <seb128> pitti: revert patch and then rebuild packages?
[06:24] <pitti> seb128: why both?
[06:25] <iwj> Riddell: And I quickly figured out I needed to restart it but when I tried I got a semiinfinite series of dialogue boxes telling me that various crap was hopelessed buggered.  Segfaults all round.
[06:25] <mdz> pitti: if packages were built with the changed libpoppler they might need to be rebuilt
[06:25] <seb128> pitti: because if the ABI change we probably want to revert it, no?
[06:25] <pitti> seb128: TBH, rebuilding the rdepends seems safer to me
[06:25] <pitti> hm, as you wish
[06:25] <pitti> mdz: right, that
[06:25] <iwj> How can I file an RC bug against the upgrade instructions ?
[06:25] <seb128> I don't really wish anything, I'm not sure of what is the best
[06:25] <pitti> 's why I favor rebuilding rdepends
[06:25] <seb128> but as pointed by mdz we need to rebuild either way
[06:25] <zul> pitti: there is a security fix for the phpmyadmin ill attach a debdiff with the patches to the bug is that ok or should i just upload it?
[06:25] <mdz> pitti: how many packages are affected in each case?
[06:26] <seb128> pitti: but we make us binary incompatible with rest of the world then?
[06:26] <iwj> I mean, has anyone actually _tried_ these upgrade instructions ?  Because new users who get a bit queasy because of lots of warnings from defoma are going to be completely freaked by the kubuntu breezy->dapper experiences I've just had.
[06:26] <seb128> mdz: to main, probably like 4 or 5
[06:27] <mdz> seb128: in both cases?
[06:27] <seb128> mdz: no, if we don't roll the patch out it looks like only tetex-bin needs a rebuild
[06:27] <pitti> seb128: is that an issue? if so, well, then we can revert the bug fix, too, but I wouldn't be so happy about reintroducing a bug
[06:27] <seb128> right
[06:27] <pitti> mdz: around 6
[06:27] <ogra> iwj, i have some upgrade tests on my todo (at least for edubuntu) since i'm listed for them in sfllaw's table on Testing/Current
[06:27] <seb128> I would just rebuild tetex-bin then
[06:27] <mdz> seb128: everything else has already been built with the new lib?
 seb128: all the packages except tetex-bin (not sure about kdegraphics) have been built since the change
[06:28] <mdz> ah
[06:28] <iwj> mvo: I'm not particularly a fan of the modern GUI for myself but I can see why some people would like it.  What I'm really not a fan of is broken stuff !
[06:28] <iwj> ogra: Right.  Err, do you mean `I haven't tried it so it may be rough' which is fine or `I would like you to try it and rant at me about the bugs' ? :-)(
[06:28] <pitti> zul: go ahead, I'll be away again soonish, and I can't do much here anyway
[06:28] <iwj> s/\($//
[06:28] <seb128> mdz: should we do a rebuild upload for tetex-bin now?
[06:28] <zul> pitti: ok ill do an upload tonight when i get home
[06:29] <ogra> iwj, that meant "i'll try them as well and i can tell you later if it works for ubuntu or edubuntu"
[06:30] <iwj> ogra: Ah, right.
[06:30] <iwj> I was trying the kubuntu thing because my name was in the box saying I should try it :-).
[06:30] <ogra> yeah :)
[06:30] <Kamion> mdz: I haven't revisited the button sensitivity/focus issue since yesterday
[06:31] <Kamion> mdz: I'd like to sort it out if possible, though. sabdfl wants me to upload on Monday with updated translations ...
[06:32] <iwj> mdz: That theme package is FTBFS :-(.  Do you want me to upload it anyway so it's in the archive where we can edit it ?
[06:33] <iwj> (I'm looking into it to try to see if there's an obvious quick fix.)
[06:33] <Kamion> Riddell: I'm also expecting a patch from you at some point to turn off the KDE media notifier while running ubiquity; given that Monday's a bank holiday, are you going to be able to get that to me before then?
[06:36] <pitti> bye!
[06:41] <iwj> ogra: I've just been doing _k_ubuntu.  I'll probably try a few others at some point but perhaps not today.
[06:42] <ogra> yup
[06:48] <KaiL> eeks - afaik killed Partitions with graphical installer?!
[06:48] <mjg59> KaiL: In English?
[06:49] <KaiL> mjg59, on heise.de somebody writes about a destroyed NTRFS partition with the graphical installer - not beta1, RC :(
[06:52] <iwj> mdz: No, I don't see a quick fix for this themes thing but I don't really know what's been going on.  Obviously some stuff has moved.
[06:52] <KaiL> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/foren/go.shtml?read=1&msg_id=10498744&forum_id=98195 - not really that much details...
[06:52] <ogra> KaiL, i dont have a heise account anymore, if you have one, please ask him to file a bug
[06:53] <desrt> mjg59; no love on the commandline option
[06:53] <mjg59> desrt: No debug love for you, then
[06:53] <desrt> sucks, huh?
[06:53] <mjg59> Yup
[06:53] <desrt> i have another sad story
[06:53] <desrt> elilo loads and says 'Loading initrd.img...done'[newline]  and then locks up
[06:53] <desrt> not insanely important since legacy booting is fine but still sort of weird
[06:54] <desrt> this one should be easier to diagnose, though
[06:54] <KaiL> ogra, got blocked for too much trolling? ;)
[06:55] <ogra> KaiL, nope, stopped posting ~2 years ago because that forum is simply pointless
[06:55] <KaiL> today it's better that pro-linux (where they only have anti-gnome-rant)
[06:55] <desrt> mjg59; any suggestions for next step with sleep?
[06:55] <desrt> mjg59; oh... one thing i should mention... with the s3_bios option, i have to echo 3 into the sleep file twice... the first time, it gets ignored
[07:01] <_ion> http://johan.kiviniemi.name/pictures/screenshots/amarok-tool
[07:01] <_ion> :-)
[07:01] <mdz> iwj: not much point in uploading it if it doesn't build
[07:02] <mdz> iwj: is the failure in Frank's PHP magic or in the packaging?
[07:02] <mdz> iwj: if the former, please ask him to see if he can get it building again
[07:02] <iwj> mdz: The failure is that it can't find some icons that it's trying to slurp from the input themes.  Presumably those input themes have stopped shipping those files for some reason.
[07:03] <iwj> Apparently this happened once before.
[07:03] <iwj> Who is responsible for packages like ubuntu-artwork, tangerine-icon-theme, tango-icon-theme and where can I find the discussions where they decide to change things ?
[07:03] <Burgwork> mvo, you around?
[07:03] <seb128> iwj: dholbach
[07:04] <jsgotangco> dholbach
[07:04] <iwj> I've been trying to keep track of ubuntu-art but it's very noisy if you don't much like discussing the merits of icons :-).
[07:04] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:04] <iwj> seb128, jsgotangco: ta.
[07:04] <seb128> np
[07:04] <iwj> dholbach: ping?
[07:04] <dholbach> iwj: pong
[07:04] <iwj> Hello.  We're discussing (^) the FTBFS of the new ff theme package from Frank Schoep.
[07:05] <iwj> It seems some files have moved or been removed.  Eg, /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/actions/dialog-apply.svg (not sure if that one was the one it found before, but some file like that).
[07:05] <dholbach> iwj: do you have a buildlog somewhere?
[07:05] <mvo> Burgwork: yes
[07:05] <dholbach> /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/actions/dialog-apply.svg has never existed to the best of my knowledge
[07:06] <iwj> dholbach: Yes, just a mo ...
[07:06] <dholbach> only /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/{filesystems,devices}/* yes, everything else, no
[07:06] <dholbach> (that's for scalable ones)
[07:07] <iwj> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/buildlog
[07:07] <dholbach> merci, looking
[07:08] <dholbach> and 21x21 never existed as well
[07:08] <dholbach> 16x16, 24x24, 32x32, 48x48 for Human, yes
[07:08] <iwj> dholbach: It tries various things for each icon and picks the first one that exists.
[07:08] <dholbach> (oh well and add scalable)
[07:09] <iwj> If you look at the bottom of that log, you see the files it tries [0] ..[7] .  At least one of those files must have existed previously, I think.
[07:09] <dholbach> tango-icon-theme-common: /usr/share/icons/Tango/scalable/actions/dialog-apply.svg
[07:10] <dholbach> and I'll make sure there's a Human variant as well
[07:10] <iwj> Oh, has tango-icon-theme been split ?
[07:10] <dholbach> in fact it's a split off of tangerine-icon-theme
[07:10] <sfllaw> So... wvdial tickles a problem in the ltmodem driver.
[07:10] <sfllaw> Which hardlocks the machine.
[07:10] <iwj> I've got  Build-Depends: ubuntu-artwork, tangerine-icon-theme, tango-icon-theme, [image processing software] 
[07:10] <dholbach> to have icons that are common to both: tango-icon-theme and tangerine-icon-theme
[07:11] <dholbach> Human does not have an icon for that metaphor
[07:12] <dholbach> and the checks for 21x21 should be either 22x22 (tango*-icons) or 24x24 (Human)
[07:12] <iwj> Is there somewhere where this kind of thing is discussed that Frank and I should be watching ?
[07:12] <iwj> dholbach: I think he's trying to make 21x21 icons.  I don't know why.
[07:12] <iwj> Is that wrong ?
[07:12] <dholbach> then he has to rescale them, that's fine with me - I'm just saying that he won't find any of those in the icon themes we ship
[07:12] <iwj> I know nothing about icons; I got involved via firefox and made Frank's thing into a Debian-format source package.
[07:13] <dholbach> there are bzr branches for tangerine and tango-common
[07:13] <dholbach> but that's the most I can offer
[07:13] <iwj> dholbach: IC.  I don't think that matters.
[07:13] <dholbach> I merely packaged them.
[07:13] <iwj> His script is indeed set up to rescale things if it doesn't find the size it wanted.
[07:13] <iwj> That's why it looks for .png first and then .svg for each one.
[07:14] <dholbach> Right.
[07:14] <iwj> OK.  That seems to have built.  I'll add the build-dependency on tango-icon-theme-common and upload it.
[07:14] <dholbach> Excellent.
[07:14] <iwj> Thanks muchly.
[07:14] <dholbach> If there are other breakages, please tell me.
[07:14] <dholbach> I'm happy to double check that none of the icons went AWOL.
[07:15] <dholbach> (which wouldn't surprise me given the fluctuation)
[07:16] <iwj> dholbach: OK.  I'll have a .deb shortly and you can check it for me ?
[07:16] <dholbach> I can try.
[07:18] <iwj> dholbach: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/firefox-themes-ubuntu_0.4.2_all.deb
[07:19] <iwj> mdz: dholbach helpfully told me what the problem was and it's uploading now.
[07:20] <iwj> mdz: now in NEW
[07:20] <sfllaw> BenC: Ping.
[07:20] <dholbach> mdz: looks good so far.
[07:20] <dholbach> iwj: looks good so far.
[07:20] <iwj> Thanks.
[07:23] <Kamion> iwj: what a weird source stanza in debian/control. I'm not sure I've ever seen one only three lines long before.
[07:23] <Kamion> (no Section, Priority, or Standards-Version)
[07:24] <iwj> Oh, I should have put in a Standards-Version.
[07:24] <iwj> Do we use Section and Priority ?
[07:24] <Kamion> iwj: and the Depends is duplicated
[07:24] <Kamion> they provide hints to soyuz in much the same way they provide hints to dinstall/dak
[07:25] <Kamion> they're overridden, but usually trivially; dselect users will see the results
[07:25] <iwj> Kamion: IC.
[07:25] <mvo> what bribe would it take to get someone to work on bug 45267 for me?
[07:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45267 in libnotify "Notification with an image half hidden" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45267
[07:25] <Kamion> there should be an actual debian/copyright in the source, per policy
[07:26] <Kamion> (I realise it's generated, but the output should be in the source)
[07:26] <iwj> Kamion: the duplicated Depends is very strange.  I think I must have been in a hurry.  Thinking about it I shouldn't be treating this as `I did this ages ago'; I should be treating it as `new thing I've just invented' like it looks from your pov ...
[07:26] <sfllaw> OK.  Lunch time.
[07:26] <iwj> And it was pretty freaky when I started so a 2nd round of review a week or three later is probably a good idea anyway.
[07:27] <iwj> If you reject it I'll furtle it and upload again in a bit.
[07:28] <Kamion> no, I'll not stall the work on that, as I don't see anything that should actually be harmful - please just incorporate the above into the next upload
[07:28] <Kamion> I've overridden the source to Section: web
[07:28] <iwj> OK.  Thanks.
[07:29] <BenC> sfllaw: pong
[07:29] <sivang> elmo: around?
[07:29] <doko> anybody seen this with new installations? http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/Terminal-Buttons.png -> the background of buttons has a wrong color until you move the mouse over it
[07:30] <dholbach> doko: ati driver?
[07:31] <doko> dholbach: yes
[07:31] <doko> Radeon 9200
[07:31] <dholbach> doko: there should be a bug about it
[07:32] <dholbach> doko: I suppose changing the Theme makes it work again?
[07:32] <Burgwork> iwj, one comment: you might want to avoid the use of "php" in a package name that has nothing to do with PHP, so as to avoid confusion
[07:33] <sfllaw> BenC: Bug 41991
[07:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41991 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 "ltmodem use hangs 686 kernel" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41991
[07:33] <sfllaw> It's not something we can fix, is it?
[07:34] <doko> dholbach: if I change back, I see the wrong color again
[07:35] <dholbach> doko: that might be another ati <-> cairo related breakage
[07:35] <iwj> Burgwork: not my choice of package name.  You are of course entirely correct.  The binary package name is more sane.
[07:36] <seb128> doko: that's an ati driver issue, there is a zillion of dups already
[07:36] <Burgwork> iwj, yep, I see that
[07:37] <iwj> Gah, this package is a pile of crap still.
[07:38] <ogra> why does it have php in its name ?
[07:39] <iwj> Because it's named after the CVS module in Frank's repo, which he decided to call `yada-php-yada' because he was going to write it in php.
[07:39] <dholbach> what is the package name? i-dont-like-php or what?
[07:39] <ogra> dholbach, the one you were discussing with iwj the last half hour 
[07:39] <ogra> ubuntu-php-firefox-human
[07:39] <dholbach> I downloaded a firefox-themes-ubuntu deb
[07:39] <ogra> thats the binary
[07:39] <iwj> Yes, the source and binary have different names.  Do catch up at the back.
[07:40] <ogra> i'm just wondering what php means there
[07:41] <iwj> It means `this is a pile of php'.  This is silly, I know.  See above.
[07:41] <sivang> php in firefox theme??
[07:41] <iwj> Or are you asking `why don't I rename it' ?
[07:41] <ogra> ah, sorry i'm blind
[07:42] <iwj> Obviously I don't want to go around renaming source packages; that's just makework.
[07:44] <iwj> Kamion: re debian/copyright> `A copy of the file which will be installed in /usr/share/doc/package/copyright should be in debian/copyright in the source package' (policy 3.7.2.0 s12.5), you mean ?
[07:45] <iwj> I'm afraid I can't comply with that because the copyright information for the binary package is generated at build-time.
[07:45] <Kamion> iwj: you build-depend on the relevant packages, which means that you can generate debian/copyright from your package's clean rule.
[07:46] <Kamion> you might have to *re*generate it at build time too, but it will generally be pretty close. The purpose of having debian/copyright in the source package is so that ftpmaster can extract it in a scriptable way.
[07:46] <iwj> Kamion: Hmm.
[07:47] <iwj> ftpmaster wants the copyright of the _source_ package, not of the binary one.
[07:47] <iwj> (And policy should say `must' if it's a technical requirement of the archive system, surely?)
[07:47] <BenC> sfllaw: ok, checking on it
[07:47] <Kamion> In that case it's reasonable enough for debian/copyright in the source to be a straight copy of debian/copyright.in, and you can regenerate it for the binary packages later.
[07:47] <iwj> I suppose the binary package copyright will include the source package one.
[07:47] <Kamion> iwj: yes, well, I don't control Debian policy ...
[07:48] <Kamion> It's not *quite* a technical requirement - katie would put up big flashing warnings for the ftpmaster operating the tools if it's missing who would generally reject on that, though
[07:48] <iwj> Is this a feature of Debian ftpmaster as well as Ubuntu ?
[07:48] <iwj> Right, so the policy is wrong.
[07:48] <Kamion> more than of Ubuntu, I'd say, given that soyuz doesn't yet do automatic copyright extraction
[07:49] <Kamion> AFAIK the reason that requirement is in policy was because Debian's ftpmasters wanted it to be.
[07:49] <Kamion> though interestingly http://release.debian.org/etch_rc_policy.txt is a bit ambiguous on that
[07:50] <Kamion> it just talks about the binary requirement
[07:52] <Kamion> iwj: Hmm, perhaps I need to take back my words. I've just looked through katie's source and can't find the check for debian/copyright that I could have always sworn was there. Oh well.
[07:52] <Kamion> so whatever, I guess ...
[07:53] <Kamion> sladen: amen
[07:54] <karim> is there a way to get the list of build-deps for a package ?
[07:54] <Kamion> karim: apt-cache showsrc, or look in debian/control if you have the source package unpacked
[07:55] <karim> Kamion, my goal is to maje apt-build build the build dependencies
[07:55] <karim> make
[07:55] <karim> Kamion, apt-cache showsrc shows the list, but I don't know how to parse it, since it also includes version numbers between braquets
[07:56] <Kamion> well yes you'll have to learn how to parse that. :-)
[07:56] <Kamion> the definition is in the Debian policy manual
[07:57] <karim> definition of what ?
[07:58] <Kamion> or e.g. /usr/lib/dpkg/controllib.pl (parsedep) or python-apt have functions to parse it
[07:58] <Kamion> definition of the field format you say you don't know how to parse
[07:58] <karim> Build-Depends-Indep: gettext (>= 0.13), po-debconf, po4a the line looks like that
[07:58] <karim> ok
[08:01] <karim> Kamion, that's horrible man
[08:02] <karim> Kamion, briefly, how do I use that ?
[08:03] <jdub> iwj: ubuntu-*php*-firefox-human ... ?
[08:03] <Kamion> jdub: see scrollback
[08:04] <jdub> heh
[08:04] <jdub> bizarre :)
[08:05] <jsgotangco> jdub: good morning?
[08:05] <Kamion> karim: I don't have time for detailed technical support I'm afraid. If you're talking about the Perl one (which I believe is probably harder to use, nowadays) then there's an example in ubiquity/d-i/update-control. If you're talking about python-apt then I believe 'import apt_pkg; help(apt_pkg.ParseSrcDepends)' should help. Next time say which you mean ...
[08:05] <jdub> jsgotangco: evening still ;)
[08:06] <karim> Kamion, I am not sure how to use that in a perl programm. I have done some perl, but well ...
[08:06] <karim> karim, perl
[08:06] <Kamion> karim: don't use the perl one if you aren't comfortable enough with perl, then ...?
[08:06] <karim> Kamion, in fact anything. I use a system cal from perl, so I just need something that can return a string with the build deps
[08:06] <karim> perl or not it's fine
[08:07] <Kamion> mdz: I just noticed an issue in gparted; it emits FORMAT instructions to stdout whether or not it managed to do the partition creation, so ubiquity can be confused into thinking that it needs to create a filesystem when it really shouldn't
[08:08] <Kamion> mdz: this might be the cause of the heise article ogra referred to earlier, not that it's very clear, and of Billy's comment near the end of bug 45543
[08:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45543 in ubiquity "Serious Data Loss resizing partitions" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45543
[08:08] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/gparted-fix-format-instructions.diff looks promising; could you eyeball it at least in principle?
[08:08] <Kamion> I haven't set up a test environment yet and I'm about to finish for the week
[08:10] <sladen> join #ubuntu-bugs
[08:10] <iwj> Kamion: just uploaded a saner version of that package, I think.  What a mess.
[08:13] <iwj> Me too now.  Thanks everyone for bailing me out of this themes mess.
[08:15] <haggai> doko: what's happening with apt-proxy? Any changes should be sent to me since there is a new release on the way with lots of changes
[08:17] <doko> haggai: please look at the spec, it's not yet clear to me, how he wants to do that
[08:22] <haggai> doko: do you have a link to the spec?
[08:31] <sfllaw> BenC: It looks like TIOCGSERIAL or TIOCSSERIAL to the ltmodem device makes it pretty unhappy.
[08:32] <sfllaw> Or even TCGETS.
[08:32] <sfllaw> Yikes.
[08:36] <zyga_> hello
[08:36] <bddebian> Hello zyga
[09:04] <tseng> Kamion: can we throw ifolder3 back out?
[09:05] <sladen> launchpad is out to lunch.
[09:06] <ogra> tseng, whats wrong ? 
[09:06] <tseng> Kamion: it never met the normal NEW review from MOTU/Mono Team which is pretty customary before such an upload
[09:07] <tseng> don't see it at all
[09:07] <ajmitch> and it's missing build-deps
[09:08] <tseng> it was definately not up to par the last any of us saw it
[09:08] <tseng> (ubuntu/debian mono)
[09:08] <lukaswayne9> Has anyoene else noticed some very strange GTK rendering problems in dapper?
[09:08] <ajmitch> not to mention that the versoin accepted is a few months old
[09:08] <ogra> and it seems to not fulfill the "at least two cross reviews" policy
[09:09] <tseng> right..
[09:09] <tseng> it was reviewed by several people
[09:09] <tseng> but never approved
[09:13] <lukaswayne9> Has anyone else noticed a lot of GTK2 rendering issues in the latest dapper?
[09:15] <KaiL> might be a problem with the graphics driver?
[09:16] <ogra> tseng, woah, how did that ever get past NEW ? i just ran lintian on the source
[09:18] <tseng> ogra: i told you
[09:18] <tseng> ogra: its bad news
[09:19] <ogra> yep
[09:19] <bddebian> What package?
[09:20] <ogra> ifolder3
[09:20] <jordi> Riddell?
[09:20] <ogra> but i just discovered it might be a prob on my side
[09:21] <ogra> i'm out of diskspace
[09:21] <BenC> sfllaw: ok, I'll check that code path
[09:21] <Riddell> jordi: hi
[09:22] <jordi> Riddell: ok, so I need some help from you. Do you think you can give me a list of kubuntu packages in order of "visibility" importance?
[09:23] <jordi> ie, which need to be translated first
[09:23] <jordi> I'm upping kdelibs to max priority first
[09:24] <jordi> more than packages, I need translation domains
[09:24] <jordi> because that's what the list is about
[09:24] <Riddell> jordi: source packages, binary packages or .po files?
[09:24] <Riddell> yeah, so .po files
[09:24] <Riddell> jordi: I'd say all the ones in kdelibs that we ship in language packs then all the ones in kdebase that we ship in language packs
[09:27] <jordi> if we could be a bit more specific, it'd be cool
[09:27] <jordi> I guess the kdelibs template is a lot more important than... ktexteditor-kdatatool or so
[09:28] <Riddell> jordi: I don't have a list of all the .po files from kdelibs/kdebase, can you get that for me?
[09:28] <jordi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/kdelibs/+translations
[09:29] <Riddell> clever :)
[09:29] <jordi> I mean, if I would say gnome-panel, gnomesession and gtk are the *most* important files for gnome,w hat does that translate in the kde world?
[09:29] <jordi> it doesn't need to be three
[09:29] <jordi> just the stuff that shows more strings in normal usage etc
[09:30] <jordi> I want to do the must have at one level, then the graphical ones at another, then console stuff
[09:31] <jdub> jordi: (is this just for translation priorities, or do you want it to impact the translation stats/tables?)
[09:31] <jordi> it's just the sorting of the templates for now, but I guess there's lots of clever ways of using this data
[09:32] <Riddell> "kdelibs" is most important, then probably kicker, ksmserver and konqueror
[09:32] <Riddell> kdesktop too
[09:32] <jordi> ok
[09:35] <jordi> sorting this out is going to take a while
[09:40] <sladen> Kamion: there's a static string in d-i that reads:  "Make sure that you allocate space for a root partition ("/"), with a minimum size of 1.5 GB, and a swap partition of at least 256 MB."  Does that need to be adjusted?
[09:40] <KaiL> hmm, mostly good comments about the RC - excet quite a lot Sound-Problems and the still not really good WPA support
[09:41] <KaiL> sladen, 1.5GB for ubuntu dapper?!? I don't think, it'll work below 2.5, maybe 3...
[09:55] <jordi> Riddell: how about libkicker*. Are those strings visible?
[09:55] <jordi> visible as the main kicker stuff
[09:55] <Riddell> jordi: yes, that too please
[09:56] <jordi> all of them?
[09:56] <jordi> ie, libkicker-kdeprint
[09:56] <jordi> doesn't sound *so* improtant :P
[09:57] <Riddell> jordi: just libkicker is fine
[09:57] <Riddell> oh and libkickermenu-systemmenu is used by default too
[09:57] <Riddell> libkonq would be good too
[09:58] <jordi> ok
[10:01] <jordi> mdke: ping
[10:01] <dholbach> mdz: ok to upload a new ubuntu-artwork?
[10:02] <jordi> Riddell: names of templates related to the help system you can think of?
[10:07] <mdke> jordi: y0
[10:07] <dholbach> Kamion: ok to upload new ubuntu-artwork?
[10:08] <Kamion> tseng: as ftpmaster for several months I'd never heard of any of the review policies you mention, sorry
[10:09] <Kamion> sladen: it says 2 GB in my source
[10:09] <Kamion> dholbach: what changes?
[10:10] <dholbach> Kamion: new icons from the designer
[10:10] <jordi> mdke: what's the most important doc template, for the 3 flavs?
[10:10] <dholbach> Kamion: fixes two bugs we have
[10:10] <jordi> *desktop?
[10:11] <mdke> jordi: for each three?
[10:11] <dholbach> bug 45168 and bug 34900
[10:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45168 in ubuntu-artwork "Todays update: OpenOffice Draw and Math not consistent with the rest of OOo icons" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45168
[10:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34900 in ubuntu-artwork "desktop icon inconsistency" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34900
[10:11] <jordi> mdke: well they mostly share names right'
[10:11] <Kamion> tseng: removed, anyway
[10:11] <Kamion> dholbach: ok
[10:12] <dholbach> Kamion: merci
[10:12] <mdke> jordi: the serverguide and packaging guide which are in kubuntu and ubuntu are both in rosetta under ubuntu-docs... the desktopguides have been better translated so far than the others, but yeah, they are more important, I suppose. xubuntu only has desktop ;)
[10:12] <mdke> jordi: preface.pot in ubuntu-docs is used for all of them
[10:13] <mvo> anyone here know if it is save to purge ifrename on a upgrade? keybuk?
[10:13] <Kamion> tseng: would you mind talking to Mez and finding out what's up? it was uploaded like three months ago or so, I just couldn't quite face the NEW processing since as you say it was a bit broken - then when I came to it the other day I couldn't really see a cast-iron reason to reject
[10:14] <Kamion> mvo: wanna close bug 46743?
[10:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46743 in gnome-system-tools "Installer crashed during language pack installation" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46743
[10:15] <mvo> Kamion: thanks
[10:16] <Kamion> sladen: (Rosetta might not have been updated, but no worries, I'll munge the strings on import if not)
[10:16] <jordi> mdke: ok I upped those a bit
[10:17] <mdke> jordi: thanks
[10:17] <jordi> enough sorting for today
[10:18] <jordi> I need food and go out a bit
[10:26] <Riddell> jordi: khelpcenter
[10:30] <Kamion> iwj: firefox-themes-ubuntu binary accepted now too
[10:30] <Kamion> will be available in universe from ~1hr from now
[10:34] <mvo> mdz: ok to upload a new dist-upgrader ?
[10:47] <bgertzfield> howdy chip!
[10:47] <ChipX86> hey Ben :)
[10:56] <mvo> hey ChipX86!
[11:14] <skateinmars> hi everybody
[11:15] <skateinmars> I was asking myself, will there be an update for the postegresql-8.1 package? Because the version of this package is 8.3
[11:15] <pygi> skateinmars, no, not for dapper
[11:16] <skateinmars> but the latest version is 8.4, wich fixes security issues
[11:16] <skateinmars> err, ok pygi 
[11:16] <skateinmars> thank you for the answer
[11:16] <pygi> skateinmars, if those security bugs are critical fixes might be backported some time in future
[11:17] <Kamion> our postgresql maintainer also runs our security team; I'm confident he'll backport any security fixes that are needed
[11:17] <skateinmars> ok, I'm waiting so
[11:17] <skateinmars> thanks
[11:18] <ChipX86> hey mvo :)
[11:18] <tseng> Kamion: I'll talk to him if i see him again
[11:18] <tseng> Kamion: its been some time
[11:19] <tseng> Kamion: as for the policy, its a general motu rule to upload all NEW packages to revu.tauware.de and get 2 other current motu's to approve of it
[11:19] <tseng> Kamion: I am sure ogra can confirm that.
[11:19] <Kamion> ok but I don't honestly think it's reasonable for ftpmaster to go and check that
[11:19] <Kamion> the volume is too high
[11:19] <tseng> no, I agree
[11:19] <tseng> it should be the job of a MOTU to adhere to it
[11:19] <tseng> he was definately aware of revu
[11:19] <Kamion> no problem with you guys coming round to enforce it post-facto, of course
[11:20] <Kamion> how about libflaim?
[11:20] <tseng> its like a code of honor kind of thing
[11:20] <Kamion> that was the other one of the set
[11:20] <Kamion> it also didn't seem so bad
[11:20] <tseng> libflaim has no use w/o ifolder3
[11:20] <tseng> but indeed, its not as bad
[11:21] <Kamion> I've got no problem with leaving it there to help with locally-packaged versions of ifolder
[11:21] <tseng> I don't see a problem, either
[11:21] <Kamion> it wouldn't be the only unused-by-other-packages library in the archive
[11:21] <tseng> ifolder can come back in edgy on better terms
[11:22] <tseng> perhaps he even meant to upload to revu and horked up his dput
[11:22] <tseng> Kamion: thanks for your time.
[11:24] <bgertzfield> anyone familiar with linux-restricted-modules around? I may have some questions later; making a source package like it at the moment
[11:25] <tseng> bgertzfield: infinity owns it at present
[11:25] <bgertzfield> tseng: many thanks
[11:26] <orph-> i hear this is where the action is
[11:26] <bgertzfield> orph-: well come.
[11:26] <tseng> orph-: nothing terribly exciting, actually.
[11:27] <orph-> tseng: lets spice it up then!
[11:27] <tseng> haha maybe in 2 weeks, after release.
[11:27] <jdub> morning orph- 
[11:27] <tseng> I suspect most people have a pounding headache atm
[11:28] <orph-> jdub: hey man
[11:41] <Riddell> Kamion, mdz: around to review ubiquity/qtparted changes?
[11:41] <Riddell> http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/qtparted.diff
[11:41] <Riddell> http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/ubiquity.diff
[11:42] <Kamion> I'm here for a bit
[11:42] <Riddell> I couldn't work out a way to turn off the medianotified, kdesu and dcop just don't want to talk to each other
[11:43] <Kamion> trying to work out how the qtparted change fixes 46404
[11:43] <Kamion> oh, it was blocking trying to write "0 OK" to stdout or something?
[11:46] <mdke> Riddell: do you know how to get the menu items for kubuntu docs in khelpcenter translated?
[11:46] <zyga> is there any way to translate grub help menu?
[11:46] <Riddell> Kamion: actually I might be getting my bug numbers mixed up there, 46404 was blocking because qtparted wasn't being passed "exit"
[11:46] <zyga> the one seen after pressing f1 in the boot menu?
[11:46] <Riddell> mdke: translate the .desktop files
[11:47] <Kamion> ew, you really need to make qtparted exit when stdin goes away
[11:47] <Kamion> (in edgy now, I guess, but still)
[11:47] <mdke> Riddell: maybe we can do that and add them to the package for -updates?
[11:47] <tseng> mdke: -updates wont go on the release media?
[11:47] <Kamion> Riddell: ubiquity change looks ok, is it in your branch?
[11:48] <mdke> tseng: I don't know, I wouldn't have thought so
[11:48] <Riddell> Kamion: yes
[11:49] <Riddell> Kamion: I'm yet to work out how to get QSocketNotifier to tell me stdin has gone away, it has an exception signal but that doesn't seem to be it
[11:54] <Kamion> Riddell: right, merged and uploading, thanks
[11:54] <Kamion> Riddell: go ahead with the qtparted change
[11:55] <zyga> can someone besides pitty kick the automatic daily langpack builds?
[11:55] <Riddell> Kamion: I am right with qtparted being (half the) fix for 46404, it was because it didn't care if it applied the changes or not out just output "0 OK" whatever, now it knows to output "1 Cancel" if it doesn't
[11:55] <Kamion> zyga: don't think so
[11:55] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks
[11:55] <Kamion> Riddell: right, figures
[11:56] <mvo> Riddell: is kdmtheme manager a application for gnome-app-install? 
[11:56] <mvo> (or adept_installer)
[11:57] <Riddell> mvo: kdmtheme or kcontrol-kdmtheme?
[12:08] <jdub> hrmph
[12:08] <jdub> dunno why you'd damage a collector's item like this
[12:08] <jdub> http://www.flickr.com/photos/78122667@N00/153803178/
[12:08] <Kamion> mdz: I've tried out that gparted patch under normal circumstances (all gparted operations work) and it seems to behave fine and issue the right instructions to ubiquity
[12:09] <mdke> jdub: lol
[12:09] <Kamion> mdz: I'm going to be away much of the weekend and I'm not sure I'll have another opportunity, so I'll upload it
[12:11] <mdke> Riddell: so shall I round up some translators to do that, and get them to send the translations to me so I can upload to svn?
[12:13] <Riddell> mdke: sure
[12:13] <mdke> Riddell: do all the translations go in the same file?
[12:13] <mdke> oh yeah
[12:13] <mdke> i see it
[12:14] <mdke> easy
[12:15] <dholbach> anybody from the croatian guys in here? :)
[12:15] <mdke> Riddell: maybe there is even some clever scripting someone could do to get the titles out of the xml files? I bet robotgeek or someone could do that?
[12:15] <Riddell> mdke: worth a shot
[12:15] <mdke> Riddell: cool, thanks
[12:16] <Riddell> 22:57 < Riddell> mvo: kdmtheme or kcontrol-kdmtheme?
[12:16] <mvo> Riddell: kdmtheme
[12:17] <Riddell> mvo: dunno, never used it
[12:17] <Riddell> but I suppose it is
[12:17] <mvo> Riddell: ok, thanks
[12:19] <Riddell> ah, kdmtheme is a duplicate of kcontrol-kdmtheme
[12:20] <Riddell> how do I request for removal?
[12:20] <Kamion> Riddell: file a bug on the package, subscribe ubuntu-archive
[12:20] <dholbach> Riddell: file a bug for 'ubuntu-archive'
[12:20] <lamont> mdz: ping
[12:20] <Kamion> (don't assign ubuntu-archive)
[12:21] <Kamion> Riddell: if you get the chance, have a look at my gparted patch to output "- FORMAT" only on successful creation of the partition - you might want to do something similar in qtparted if you have the time
[12:21] <Kamion> I just uploaded it a few minutes ago
[12:22] <lamont> Kamion: or are you the right guy to get permission from for an upload?
[12:23] <Kamion> might be marginally less of an issue since apparently qtparted creates the filesystems itself - not sure
[12:23] <Kamion> lamont: not right now, am off to bed - send mail if you can't get hold of anyone on IRC, mdz might be out enjoying Friday night in London
[12:24] <Kamion> lamont: better to get permission from mdz at the moment if at all possible
[12:24] <lamont> ok.  46496 - desktop fails to install on headless hppa boxen... needs an || true in an hppa specific place in postinst
[12:24] <lamont> Kamion: ok.. will email mdz cc you
[12:25] <mvo> mdz: I would like to upload a new gnome-app-install (updated desktop files and two bugfixes). is that ok? 
[12:26] <Kamion> lamont: subscribe ubuntu-release to that bug
[12:26] <Kamion> that will get our attention
[12:27] <Kamion> lamont: also preferably attach a patch for review
[12:27] <lamont> Kamion: will write one
[12:33] <glick> is there any regulation for nazi channel operators in the main #ubuntu support channel?
[12:35] <mdke> glick: yes. You talk to them in private, then if you can't resolve the issue happily, you look at the Ubuntu dispute resolution mechanism. But usually, you always can resolve it happily
[12:35] <lamont> posted
[12:35] <glick_> mdke: this guy bans people left and right just because i was talking about gnome
[12:35] <glick_> get that?
[12:35] <glick_> i was talking about gnome in #ubuntu
[12:35] <Burgwork> glick_, I would also recommend you use less inflamtory words
[12:35] <mdke> glick_: not here. in private
[12:35] <glick_> which uses gnome
[12:36] <Burgwork> glick_, calling somebody a "nazi" is against the CoC
[12:36] <glick_> he told me to take it elsewhere and i was just like dude, im just talking about gnome to someone
[12:36] <glick_> and he banned me?
[12:36] <glick_> sup with that?
[12:36] <glick_> i think thats agains CoC
[12:36] <mdke> glick_: this channel cannot help you, talk to them about it
[12:36] <mdke> this is not the channel you have been looking for
[12:37] <lamont> glick_: this channel is for discussing ongoing development of ubuntu.
[12:37] <zyga> guys do you think there is any way to make 'Examples' a desktop file + translation?
[12:37] <zyga> so that non-english users will still have a usefull name on their desktop
[12:37] <zyga> and maybe some 'ABOUT THIS FILES' file that says it's okay to remove them by dragging them to the trash
[12:38] <jdub> zyga: unfortunately there are all kinds of problems with that - it's best for us not to use .desktop files outside systemmy locations
[12:38] <dholbach> see you guys - i'm off
[12:38] <zyga> dholbach: bye
[12:38] <sivang> night dholbach 
[12:38] <dholbach> bye zyga, sivang
[12:38] <zyga> jdub: so no .desktop files as filesystem pointers yet?
[12:39] <LeeJunFan> yay! I figured out why kde can't mount floppies, and made it work!
[12:39] <LeeJunFan> oops, wrong chan. :p
[12:39] <mdke> sivang: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bzrk
[12:41] <sivang> mdke: hmm, I wonder why ubuntu4 appears both on the "PendingRemoval" and on "Published"
[12:42] <zyga> jdub: I really like the thing osx does to directories about localization
[12:42] <zyga> if there is some .localized.foo file inside them it can override displayable name
[12:42] <mdke> sivang: I think that means that 4 replaced 3
[12:42] <zyga> that solves 99% of such issues
[12:43] <zyga> bye mvo 
[12:43] <sivang> night mvo 
[12:43] <mvo> bye zyga sivang
[12:44] <sivang> mdke: ah, silly me, it's available and published already for i386
[12:48] <duda_> hello all, i wanna figure out if this is a bug... or a feature :) but i don't know where to look for answers :)
[12:49] <zyga> duda_: hi, go ahead
[12:49] <duda_> in dapper, when i select the switch desktop option, clique on the big red button, i can go to another user
[12:49] <duda_> but when i come back, it throw me to gdm, and at this time, i have to digit my user and pass two times
[12:50] <zyga> duda_: which 'switch desktop' option?
[12:50] <duda_> because after gdm, my sessions seems to be locked...
[12:50] <duda_> switch user, sorry
[12:50] <zyga> did this happen with rc version?
[12:50] <zyga> (release candidate)
[12:50] <duda_> hum i installed dapper a week ago and had made all updates
[12:51] <duda_> isnt the same?
[12:51] <duda_> sorry, im newbie+plus and have a bad english :)
[12:52] <zyga> duda_: after you switch user you should not login agian
[12:52] <duda_> and also translating to my language, brazilian portuguese :)
[12:52] <zyga> you should select options+quit (or similar, I don't use english version ATM)
[12:52] <duda_> in the gdm?
[12:52] <duda_> at the gdm :P
[12:52] <zyga> yes
[12:53] <zyga> yes, exactly
[12:53] <duda_> hummm. let me try ;)
[12:53] <zyga> I'll be back in 15 minutes
[12:53] <duda_> great!
[12:54] <duda_> sorry to take your time with such a simples thing! :P
[01:34] <Burgwork> what the heck is landscape-client?
[01:37] <Kinnison> g'night all
[01:41] <sivang> Burgwork: ?
[01:42] <Burgwork> sivang, a placeholder package just got uploaded and then added to ubuntu-desktop
[01:42] <sivang> Burgwork: hmm, interesting
[01:43] <sivang> Burgwork: well, the package description says it all no?
[01:43] <Burgwork>  landscape-client - Placeholder for the Landscape client
[01:43] <Burgwork> maybe it is the gtk-launchpady thing?
[01:44] <sivang> don't think so:
[01:44] <sivang>  Landscape is a web-based tool for managing Ubuntu
[01:44] <sivang>  systems. Landscape is a web-based tool for managing Ubuntu
[01:44] <sivang>  systems. Landscape is a web-based tool for managing Ubuntu
[01:44] <sivang> err,
[01:44] <sivang> my network is crappy today
[01:45] <Burgwork> hmm
[01:45] <Burgwork> wonder if that is the Ubuntu Center, redubbed
[01:46] <sivang> web interface is even better actually, more universal
[01:46] <Burgwork> yes, but attendant issues
[01:46] <Riddell> Burgwork: ssh, it's super sekret
[01:47] <Burgwork> Riddell, you post to a public mailing list and you claim it is a sekret? :)
[01:47] <sivang> Riddell: heh
[01:47] <sivang> Burgwork: which public list?
[01:47] <Burgwork> ubuntu-changes
[01:47] <mdke> dapper-changes
[01:47] <sivang> ah :)
[01:48] <Burgwork> Riddell, seriously, you have any dirt for us?
[01:48] <sivang> you see, now we caused mdz to vanish :)
[01:49] <Riddell> I know nothing
[01:49] <Burgwork> Riddell, riiggght...
[01:49] <mdke> you mean "nussing"
[01:50] <sivang> let's leave it, we'll all see what it is about I assume after dapper is out.
[01:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39482 in nautilus "nautilus tries to move when dragging and dropping from read-only folders, instead of copying" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39482
[01:51] <sivang> nautlus DND code... man
[01:52] <Riddell> all I know is that they decided not to call the super sekret project Cockfosters
[01:52] <sivang> ha ha ha
[01:52] <Riddell> but that's also the case for Ubuntu
[01:52] <mdke> people find Cockfosters funny, except people who live there
[01:53] <sivang> there's a place like this?
[01:53] <zul> heylo
[01:53] <mdke> sure, you can't make a name like that up
[01:53] <Burgwork> sivang, it is a stsop on the Underground
[01:53] <Burgwork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockfosters
[01:54] <mdke> Burgwork: they named the stop after the place
[01:54] <mdke> as with most stops
[01:54] <Burgwork> mdke, yep, but the original joke was about the station
[02:21] <sivang> night all
[02:25] <tseng> bye sivang 
[02:26] <tseng> "this train is for cockfosters"
[03:05] <Burgundavia> whiprush, those of us in #edubuntu were discussing the other day about a "thin client mode" to display the fancy bling
[03:27] <zakame> hi all
[03:30] <Burgundavia> salut
[03:34] <zakame> fabbione: pong
[03:35] <zakame> fabbione: pong
[03:36] <zul> he might have gone to bed zakame 
[03:41] <zakame> er my irssi got stuck :/
[04:15] <whiprush> Burgundavia: oh really?
[04:18] <Burgundavia> whiprush, yep. I didn't realize that gnome doc existed
[04:18] <Burgundavia> we were thinking about memory usage and I was esposing a long term plan to merge Xfce and Gnome
[04:19] <whiprush> the problem with alot of the upstream gnome docs is tha it's not easy to contribute, vs. say, ubuntu documentation.
[04:20] <whiprush> I was a "gnome admin" for 6 months before I found that documentation.
[04:20] <neuralis> which is this?
[04:20] <whiprush> the gnome system administrator guide.
[04:20] <Burgundavia> the other side of that is that companies usually hack their own stuff up, like we have
[04:21] <whiprush> to add to the problem, RH, Novell, and Sun have redundant documentation on the same subject.
[04:21] <Burgundavia> actually pessulus is a great thing for gnome-love to work on
[04:21] <whiprush> you have to read all 4 to really figure it out.
[04:21] <Burgundavia> I think that was because there was no community doc effort
[04:22] <Burgundavia> it was all lead by the teams for those companies
[04:22] <Burgundavia> the community effort is only now starting up
[04:22] <whiprush> yes, all 4 documents are historical artifacts.
[04:23] <whiprush> ideally it'd all be an upstream gnome document.
[04:23] <Burgundavia> the other place that has suffered in the same way is the configuration tools
[04:23] <ghee22> speaking of gnome documentation, I'm working on the welcome center for ubuntu.  this documentation really helps by not "recreating the wheel".  I noticed QuickTourDraft in the ubuntu wiki.  Regarding this, I have a question:  How do I access UbuntuDocumentationTeam svn repo?  Reason I ask is because the latest tour, according to the wiki is here: "The doc is now in the ?UbuntuDocumentationTeam svn repo, in the quicktour dir in the 
[04:24] <Burgundavia> ghee22, join #ubuntu-doc
[04:24] <ghee22> thank you Burg
[04:25] <ghee22> are you Burgundavia on ubuntu forums?  (corey?)
[04:25] <Burgundavia> ghee22, yep
[04:25] <ghee22> got it  :o)
[05:08] <ajmitch> afternoon
[05:08] <Burgundavia> salut ajmitch 
[05:33] <bockman> there is a bad security problem in Breezy/Hoary for openvpn (Bug #45827). i emailed the listed maintainer, but he says he doesn't work for ubuntu. how can i get this fixed?
[05:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45827 in openvpn "openvpn old security problems (Breezy)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45827
[05:35] <Burgundavia> bockman, you need to ask the MOTUs to look into it. #ubuntu-motu
[05:35] <bockman> ok, thank you
[06:13] <jsgotangco> argghh
[06:17] <ajmitch> hi jsgotangco :)
[11:22] <janimo> ping
[11:26] <ploum> pong
[11:28] <janimo> ploum: saw the silence and was tetsing whether I got disconnected :)
[11:29] <ploum> janimo: you are disconnected. I'm a poltergeist haunting your computer
[11:30] <janimo> Kamio,: infinity, xubuntu desktop cd seems to install gnome-session and gnome libs again via gdm. IIRC there was a workaround at the servers to apt-get install xterm gdm for xubuntu, did it go away?
[11:30] <janimo> ploum: I am scared. Happy :) ?
[11:31] <seb128> janimo: could you fix thunar to not claim a non-existant mimetype and breaking GNOME?
[11:31] <janimo> btw can the poltergeist confirm LP is down?
[11:31] <seb128> or should I?
[11:32] <seb128> and yeah, launchpad == proxy error
[11:32] <janimo> seb128: I wanted to link to xfce upstream bug but LP is down
[11:32] <janimo> a moment
[11:32] <ploum> indeed, LP is down..
[11:33] <nomed> seb128, does "open with gvim" work in gnome?
[11:33] <janimo> seb128: http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1854
[11:33] <Ubugtu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 1854 in general "thunar taking over from nautilus" [Normal,Assigned]  
[11:33] <seb128> nomed: why wouldn't it?
[11:33] <nomed> it doesn't in thunar
[11:33] <janimo> ploum: btw poltergeists make noise, somewaht in contradiction with my noticing of silence on the channel ;)
[11:34] <ploum> janimo: haven't you see the chair moving in your room ?  ;-)
[11:36] <nomed> janimo, did u set orage instead of the clock plugin at the end ?
[11:36] <seb128> janimo: seems you people are not trying to read what I said on the bug
[11:36] <janimo> ploum: oh, I tought it was the wind
[11:36] <seb128> janimo: I'll have to fix that package myself :/
[11:37] <seb128> janimo: a directory is "x-directory/normal"
[11:37] <seb128> "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" is not mentionned to /usr/share/mime
[11:37] <janimo> nomed: no, because I think the clock plugin is simpler and enough. orage is an extra porcess running. So did not think it was important enough to change
[11:37] <janimo> nomed: are there some really compelling reasons
[11:37] <nomed> the calendar ..
[11:38] <nomed> but nothing really important ..
[11:38] <nomed> i just didn't know if it was a choice .. 
[11:38] <janimo> seb128: I have read what you said, I just want to make sure we fix it right if it needs a fix
[11:38] <janimo> seb128:  and I am not convinced it needs a fix yet
[11:39] <seb128> janimo: I'll not let Ubuntu broken for dapper because you don't want to fix your package
[11:39] <janimo> nomed: I think the calendar is not that important for most people as to bee in the default panel. (Just noticed recentl;y we do not even build it with iCal support, since libical is not in ubuntu)
[11:39] <seb128> janimo: if you don't do that change I'm going to do it
[11:39] <janimo> seb128: please keep it techincal
[11:40] <seb128> janimo: you have no technical argument to reply to what I explained
[11:40] <janimo> seb128: I am tired of kneejerk reactions instead of real discussion
[11:40] <janimo> seb128: my argument is, that installed packages do not themselves set the policy
[11:40] <seb128> janimo: I explained my point on the bug you could have replied
[11:40] <janimo> it's the user that does it
[11:40] <seb128> janimo: not true
[11:40] <janimo> I found the xfce bugzilla comment convincing
[11:41] <seb128> it's just wrong
[11:41] <seb128> "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" is not a mimetype
[11:41] <janimo> is that not a gnome-independent thing?
[11:41] <seb128> grep to /usr/share/mime if you are not convinced
[11:41] <janimo> regardless if it's a mimetype or not. Is it gnome specific?
[11:41] <seb128> "x-directory/normal" is the mimetype for a directory
[11:41] <seb128> "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" as the name indicated it is something used internally by GNOME
[11:42] <janimo> seb128: ok, I am not familiar with the places plugin etc. What does it call actually?
[11:42] <seb128> not a public interface to play with
[11:42] <seb128> gnome-open file:....
[11:42] <janimo> it is supposed to be opened by nautilus?
[11:42] <nomed> seb128, did u assign that bug to xubuntu-team ?
[11:42] <seb128> ok, let me explain you how mimetype associations work
[11:42] <seb128> nomed: I did
[11:42] <seb128> nomed: is that wrong? that's thunar bug
[11:43] <nomed> seb128, no no it's not worng .
[11:43] <nomed> i wanted just to see what that issue is :)
[11:43] <seb128> janimo: apps ship a .desktop to /usr/share/applications, that .desktop has a MimeType=... list with the mimetypes supported by the app
[11:43] <nomed> and launchpad is down ...
[11:43] <seb128> janimo: update-desktop-database does an index
[11:44] <seb128> ou get something like 
[11:44] <seb128> $ grep html /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache
[11:44] <seb128> text/html=epiphany.desktop;bluefish.desktop;firefox.desktop;
[11:44] <seb128> 
[11:44] <seb128> ie Mimetype=<list of apps for it>
[11:44] <seb128> that's the choice suggested for nautilus right click menu by example
[11:45] <seb128> then you can set a default with /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
[11:45] <seb128> like
[11:45] <seb128> $ grep directory /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
[11:45] <seb128> inode/directory=nautilus-folder-handler.desktop
[11:45] <seb128> x-directory/normal=nautilus-folder-handler.desktop
[11:45] <seb128> janimo: that list sets the system default for GNOME
[11:45] <janimo> seb128: so far I am following
[11:45] <seb128> (you could make a different defaults-xfce.list if you want)
[11:45] <seb128> janimo: the mimetype are defined to /usr/share/mime
[11:46] <janimo> seb128: /etc/xdg/xubuntu/applications/defaults.list already have it for a while
[11:46] <seb128> $ gnomevfs-info Desktop
[11:46] <seb128> Name              : Desktop
[11:46] <seb128> Type              : Directory
[11:46] <seb128> MIME type         : x-directory/normal
[11:46] <seb128> Default app       : nautilus-folder-handler.desktop
[11:46] <seb128> 
[11:46] <seb128> note
[11:46] <seb128> "MIME type         : x-directory/normal"
[11:46] <seb128> 
[11:46] <seb128> now you will not find "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" to /usr/share/mime
[11:46] <seb128> that's not a public mimetype
[11:46] <seb128> and not something you should play with
[11:46] <seb128> you should just use "x-directory/normal"
[11:46] <seb128> which would do what you want, associate with a directory
[11:47] <seb128> and NOT break GNOME
[11:47] <janimo> seb128: mind you it does NOT break gnome. If users install thunar that is no longer gnome it's a mixed environment
[11:48] <seb128> janimo: so now your turn to explain why I'm wrong
[11:48] <seb128> janimo: it plays with some GNOME private time
[11:48] <seb128> s/time/type
[11:48] <seb128> k, I give up
[11:48] <janimo> seb128: first I have so far not said you were wrong, just was not convinced you were right either
[11:48] <seb128> do whatever you like, I'll fix that myself
[11:48] <janimo> seb128: I was going to continue 
[11:48] <seb128> k
[11:48] <seb128> so please do
[11:49] <janimo> seb128, please install thunar first
[11:49] <janimo> see it has not MIME types in it's desktop file
[11:49] <janimo> I also did not set the gnome-directory in defaults.list as I copied it from usr/share where it is not listed
[11:50] <janimo> bugzilla comment says firefox uses that x-gnome-direcory handler
[11:51] <janimo> to call out to a file manager
[11:51] <janimo> and if thunar does not handle it it cannot be called from firefox
[11:51] <seb128> I doubt of that
 see it has not MIME types in it's desktop file
[11:51] <seb128> $ grep MimeType /usr/share/applications/Thunar-folder-handler.desktop
[11:51] <seb128> MimeType=x-directory/gnome-default-handler;x-directory/normal;inode/directory;
[11:52] <janimo> the rest of that comment seems very clear to me as well
[11:52] <janimo> if gnoome panel want to use nautilus it should not call it via an indirection which it would not want
[11:53] <seb128> hum
[11:53] <janimo> seb128: ok I looked at Thunar.desktop only, my bad
[11:53] <seb128> let's start again
 janimo: apps ship a .desktop to /usr/share/applications, that .desktop has a MimeType=... list with the mimetypes supported by the app
 then you can set a default with /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
[11:53] <janimo> please don't copy paste that I read it already
[11:54] <seb128> "<janimo> if gnoome panel want to use nautilu" ... that's not true
[11:54] <nomed> does the OnlyShowIn work just for the menu?
[11:54] <seb128> panel only calls the default mimetype for "x-directory/normal"
[11:54] <janimo> seb128: ok besides nautilus who would be an x-d-g handler?
[11:54] <seb128> which would work fine if you didn't override the mechanism by playing with "x-directory/gnome-default-handler"
[11:55] <seb128> x-directory/normal=Thunar-folder-handler.desktop;nautilus-folder-handler.desktop;
[11:55] <seb128> to /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache on my box
[11:56] <seb128> konqueror probably too but I don't have it installed
[11:56] <janimo> x/g-d-h I mean
[11:56] <janimo> seb128: is x-directory (w/o) gnome) enough to make thunar work as a FM called by apps?
[11:56] <seb128> it should
[11:56] <seb128> it is for most of apps
[11:57] <seb128> if firefox uses "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" it would be bugged
[11:57] <seb128> I've not checked for that
[11:57] <seb128> but I'm not sure on how it could
[11:57] <seb128> "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" is not a mimetype (in the sense it's not known by /usr/share/mime)
[11:59] <seb128> janimo: that comments to the upstream bug makes me think the guy doesn't know how to mimesystem is working
[12:00] <janimo> so does gnome-default-handler override the 'normal' if declared?
[12:00] <seb128> janimo: directory is no a special case, that's just a mimetype
[12:01] <seb128> janimo: looks like, since thunar is always opened to open an "x-directory/normal" whatever the default for it is set
[12:03] <Lathiat> tmpfs                1013M   19M  995M   2% /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-386/volatile
[12:03] <Lathiat> tmpfs                1013M   19M  995M   2% /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-k7/volatile
[12:03] <Lathiat> tmpfs                1013M   19M  995M   2% /lib/modules/2.6.15-22-386/volatile
[12:03] <Lathiat> tmpfs                1013M   19M  995M   2% /lib/modules/2.6.15-22-k7/volatile
[12:03] <Lathiat> volatile recreated on kernel postinst?
[12:03] <Lathiat> i probably havent rebooted for a couple updates
[12:04] <seb128> janimo: looking to gnome-vfs code they use "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" as a trick to be sure there is a directory handler even if the mimeinfo cache lists none
[12:05] <seb128> janimo: i.e: if they find no x-directory/normal handler they set x-directory/gnome-default-handler
[12:14] <janimo> seb128: ok but why does it not use nautilus directly ?
[12:14] <janimo> what I don;t get is, that since it is aclled via an indirection it was meant to be overridable no?
[12:14] <janimo> s/aclled/called/
[12:15] <seb128> janimo: as said the panel used the preferred app associated to "x-directory/normal"
[12:15] <seb128> janimo: you could be wanting to set Thunar as the default under GNOME
[12:15] <infinity> Lathiat: yes, postinst has to mount volatile and compile all the modules once, so you get a properly-updated modules.dep
[12:16] <seb128> janimo: that's just that playing with "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" breaks the mechanism
[12:16] <janimo> seb128: I would appreciate if you commented on what thunar upstream said (in LP since I assuem you don't have an xfce bugzilla account)
[12:16] <Lathiat> infinity: cant unmount the old one?
[12:17] <infinity> Lathiat: Err, what?  Why would it do that?
[12:17] <janimo> seb128: since I get contradictory opionions from you and thunar upstream I'd really prefer if you could agree on where the bug actually is
[12:17] <infinity> Lathiat: It's not going to randomly umount filesystems just cause it believes you may not want it anymore.  Reboot if it bugs you.
[12:17] <infinity> Lathiat: Which you should be doing after kernel updates ANYWAY.
[12:17] <janimo> and making sure it does not break firefox or other apps
[12:18] <Lathiat> oh hrm i thought it had doubled-mounted i see there was one of each revision/version
[12:18] <janimo> seb128: I linked the uptream bug in LP
[12:18] <infinity> Lathiat: Yeah.  It won't mount it twice.  It checks for that.
[12:19] <Lathiat> altho, leaving the voltaile mounted for a non-running kernel ?
[12:19] <janimo> and I'll point upstream to LP back to your response
[12:19] <janimo> infinity: saw my question about an hour ago regarding the xubuntu desktop CD installing gnome-session?
[12:20] <infinity> Lathiat: Normally, this wouldn't be a problem.  You're the one who's upgrade *4* kernels without rebooting. :)
[12:20] <infinity> Lathiat: s/upgrade/upgraded/
[12:20] <seb128> janimo: I already exprimed myself on the launchpad bug, what else do you want me to say?
[12:20] <Lathiat> infinity: i just went through 1 update, im running -22 -23 is newest, and i just happen to have both -386 and -k7 installed :)
[12:20] <ajmitch> Lathiat: don't worry, you're not the only one :)
[12:21] <Lathiat> :)
[12:21] <infinity> Lathiat: 2 updates.  You upgraded from -22.33 to -22.34 *and* installed -23.xx
[12:21] <infinity> Lathiat: Otherwise, you wouldn't have both 22-386 and 22-k7 mounted.
[12:22] <Lathiat> uh
[12:22] <Lathiat> how do you figure that
[12:22] <infinity> Lathiat: Anyhow.  Other than wasting a little bit of RAM on a tmpfs you're not using, there's no real harm.  And since we expect people to reboot somewhere after that postinst runs, I'd prefer to keep the moving parts count low.
[12:23] <Lathiat> 22.34 came out  7 may and i only have a 6 day uptime so i definiately only went from -22 to -23
[12:23] <Lathiat> but anyway :)P
[12:23] <infinity> Lathiat: Youre booted into -22-k7 right now, right?  And you have -22-k7, -22-386, -23-k7, and -23-386 installed.  On boot, -22-k7/volatile was mounted.  When you upgraded from -22.33 to -22.34, -22-386/volatile was mounted.  lather, rince, repeat for -23-{k7,386}/volatile
[12:24] <Lathiat> ah, i see the logic there
[12:24] <infinity> Lathiat: When -22.34 came out makes no difference.  When you upgraded does. :)
[12:24] <infinity> -22.34 only left the archive a short while ago.
[12:25] <infinity> Anyhow, non-bug, IMO.  Trying to guess what filesystems to unmount to save a tiny bit of RAM is not sane, given that we expect you to reboot anyway.
[12:28] <janimo> seb128: so if thunar did not set gnome-defa-handler it nautilus/thunar could be chosen as preferred fm in gnome and either be used for places//firefox etc consistently?
[12:28] <janimo> all across gnome mean?
[12:28] <janimo> that would indeed solve the original reportes problem
[12:28] <janimo> but if some apps rely on gnome-default-handler instead of directory-default it does not solve it
[12:29] <seb128> why would some app do that?
[12:29] <seb128> gnome-default-handler is not a mimetype
[12:29] <seb128> i.e: not listed by /usr/share/mime
[12:29] <janimo> seb128: what does this all have to do with mimetype or not?
[12:30] <janimo> the question is 'is it settable'?
[12:30] <janimo> you already said 3 times it's not a mimetype and I got it
[12:30] <seb128> the opening association is how I described before
[12:30] <seb128> you open a mimetype
[12:30] <seb128> and the list of handles and make from the .desktops you have installed
[12:31] <seb128> and the default from the system default or an user default you set
[12:31] <infinity> janimo:             LIST="$LIST ubuntu-base xterm xubuntu-desktop"
[12:31] <infinity> janimo: That's how it's been since you first reported the issue to me.
[12:31] <janimo> if it is settable it means it can be something else than nautilus
[12:31] <janimo> if it's not settable what is it there for?
[12:31] <janimo> can you please comment in LP and point out to thunar upstream why he's wrong?
[12:31] <seb128> janimo: I don't get your issue. Opening a directory is opening an "x-directory/normal" mimetype and works according to the mechanism I explained 3 times already and you understood
[12:32] <janimo> seb128: infinity, ok, there's a lag here I just got two full pages after no activity
[12:32] <janimo> I'll have to reread and see I may have asked soem questions that were already replied to
[12:33] <janimo> infinity: weird then.thanks
[12:34] <nomed> janimo, did u add any new pkge on the seeds ?
[12:34] <nomed> xubuntu-system-tools ex ..
[12:34] <janimo> seb128: re LP. Since upstream read the bug comments in LP and replied I'd assume you should reply to what he said specifically not what I said earlier
[12:34] <janimo> he cam with other arguments
[12:35] <janimo> nomed: I added ubuntu-artwork most recently
[12:35] <janimo> seb128: and I did not really have arguments in LP, just a few questions and uncertainties, that's why I forwarded it upstrea
[12:37] <janimo> seb128: since you said upstream author does not know how the mime system works, you may want to set him straight
[12:37] <janimo> I'd rather he fixes the bug upstream too not just have it in ubuntu
[12:37] <nomed> janimo, no it's not ubuntu-artwork ...
[12:37] <nomed> and it's not xubuntu-system-tools ..
[12:38] <janimo> nomed: is it not gnome-session? do you have liveCD booted?
[12:39] <nomed> janimo, no ..
[12:39] <nomed> i'm just checking deps ..
[12:40] <nomed> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/dapper/rc/xubuntu-6.06-rc-desktop-i386.manifest
[12:40] <seb128> janimo: commented on the bug
[12:40] <janimo> seb128: thanks
[12:40] <seb128> np
[12:41] <nomed> janimo, i do not see gnome-session there
[12:42] <janimo> seb128: a moment
[12:42] <nomed> janimo, and i do not see even on "current" ...
[12:42] <seb128> janimo: what?
[12:42] <janimo> where is the comment I don't see it in LP?
[12:42] <janimo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/46554
[12:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46554 in thunar "thunar takes over gnome "places"+"bookmarks" menu in gnome panel" [Unknown,Unknown]  
[12:43] <seb128> janimo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/desktop-file-utils/+bug/35997/ is the bug about that for me
[12:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35997 in libgnome "Gnome's Places menu starts Konqueror instead of Nautilus" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  
[12:43] <janimo> seb128: ah ok, duplicates
[12:43] <seb128> janimo: that's the one you mentioned on the xfce bug
[12:44] <janimo> ah sorry, I tought it was the latest one
[12:44] <seb128> np
[12:44] <seb128> bbl now :)
[12:51] <janimo> nomed: I think I found it
[12:52] <nomed> janimo, is gnome-session in ?
[12:52] <infinity> No, gnome-session isn't being pulled it.
[12:52] <janimo> nomed: ubiquity-frontend-gtk
[12:52] <nomed> yep
[12:52] <infinity> Err, no.  ubiquity isn't installed until later in the process.
[12:52] <janimo> gotta see though what
[12:52] <infinity> You're getting GNOME libs before that.
[12:53] <nomed> infinity, but ...
[12:53] <nomed> shouldn't it be listed in manifest file ?
[12:53] <janimo> infinity: is there a chronologically ordered list?
[12:53] <infinity> janimo: The build log?
[12:53] <janimo> how do I see what (and how) it is getting installed?
[12:53] <infinity> janimo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/livefs-build-logs/dapper/xubuntu/20060527/livecd-20060527-i386.out
[12:53] <janimo> infinity: thanks
[12:53] <infinity> janimo: I'm doing a test in a chroot to see what's pulling in libgnome.
[12:54] <infinity> (You're lucky I have a local mirror..)
[12:54] <janimo> infinity: I am in a chroot too trying to install xubuntu bits too
[12:54] <janimo> got down to xubuntu-live (so it's not gdm this time)
[12:55] <infinity> Err, I just installed xterm and -desktop, and got libgnome pulled in.
[12:55] <infinity> Or is libgnome expected?
[12:55] <infinity> (which extra library or libraries are you actually complaining about?)
[12:56] <janimo> infinity: no libgnome is not expected
[12:56] <janimo> only libgnomeprint
[12:56] <infinity> Oh, maybe I just can't read.
[12:56] <janimo> ah indeed I get that too... :(
[12:57] <janimo> so not via gdm but somewhere else
[12:57] <infinity> I'll know for sure in about 2 minutes. :)
[12:58] <janimo> hm I wonder why firefox-gnome-support is installed
[12:58] <infinity> It's not.
[12:58] <nomed> infinity, janimo
[12:58] <infinity> apt's merely telling you that it's suggested.
[12:58] <janimo> nomed: yes?
[12:58] <nomed> why those pkges you're checking are not in the manifest file ?
[12:59] <nomed> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/dapper-desktop-i386.manifest
[12:59] <janimo> nomed, I know too little about all this to answer that :)
[12:59] <nomed> i guess that can help ..
[12:59] <infinity> nomed: What isn't in the manifest?
[12:59] <nomed> it means it happen after the manifest file is generated
[12:59] <infinity> nomed: I see everything there...
[01:00] <nomed> infinity, i do not see any unwanted package there
[01:00] <janimo> hmm abiword-plugins?
[01:00] <infinity> libgnome2-0 2.14.1-0ubuntu2
[01:00] <infinity> libgnome2-common 2.14.1-0ubuntu2
[01:00] <infinity> At least.
[01:01] <nomed> ahh k
[01:01] <janimo> nope not abiword either, just on a fresh install
[01:02] <nomed> liblaunchpad-integration0
[01:02] <nomed> i guess
[01:02] <janimo> infinity: if a package is in the seed is it going to be taken into dep calculations with priority?
[01:03] <infinity> janimo: I'm not sure I understand the question...
[01:03] <janimo> infinity: abiword and gnumeric depend on goffice|goffice-gtk
[01:03] <nomed> janimo, if a package is in the seed 
[01:04] <janimo> infinity: and I explcitietly seed goffice-gtk to make sure it is chose. Is this right?
[01:04] <nomed> mainly in xubuntu-desktop
[01:04] <nomed> and it depends on pkge1|pkge2
[01:04] <nomed> even if pkge2 is listed in as xubuntu-desktop dep
[01:04] <infinity> janimo: Well, libgoffice-gtk-1-2 was chosen, so it seems to be working as expected.
[01:04] <nomed> pkge1 will be installed by "package"
[01:05] <nomed> i hope you got what i mean
[01:05] <janimo> ok
[01:05] <infinity> nomed: No, if pkg1 and pkg2 conflict, and you ask for "install pkg2, and pk3 which depends on pkg1|pkg2", apt only has one choice.
[01:05] <infinity> It can either do what you ask, or do nothing.
[01:05] <nomed> what's nice is that this issue is not present in smart-pn
[01:05] <nomed> pm even
[01:06] <nomed> infinity, see xterm issue
[01:06] <infinity> nomed: Yes, that's different.  xterm and gnome-session don't conflict.
[01:06] <janimo> nomed: lpintegration is ok
[01:06] <infinity> nomed: The goffice|goffice-gtk stuff should conflict, hence there's only one way to satisfy the dep.
[01:07] <nomed> infinity, yep
[01:08] <nomed> but i'm not supposing libgnome is added by an issue like that one
[01:09] <infinity> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[01:09] <infinity>   libbonoboui2-0* libgnome2-0* libgnome2-common* libgnomeui-0*
[01:09] <infinity> That's odd.
[01:10] <infinity> Nothing's pulling in libbonoboui2-0...
[01:12] <nomed> infinity, i guess it's because that "pkge2" gets installed as dep by something else ...
[01:12] <nomed> so those pkges are not needed anymore ..
[01:13] <infinity> But nothing should have an alternate dependency on libbonoboui2-0.. That would make no sense.
[01:13] <nomed> i'm sorry for not being clearer .. 
[01:13] <nomed> true even ..
[01:13] <janimo> libgnome2-common is installed and depends on bonobo
[01:13] <infinity> janimo: 
[01:13] <infinity> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[01:13] <infinity>   libbonoboui2-0* libbonoboui2-common* libgnome2-0* libgnome2-common* libgnomeui-0*
[01:13] <infinity>   libgnomeui-common*
[01:13] <infinity> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 6 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[01:14] <infinity> Removing all that doesn't remove anything you've seeded.
[01:14] <infinity> So, I'm not sure why it's getting installed.
[01:14] <infinity> mvo: Around?
[01:14] <janimo> infinity: right...
[01:14] <nomed> testing that on a pbuild login ...
[01:14] <infinity> nomed: Same deal.  This is a clean chroot.
[01:15] <ogra> urgh, mdz your last seed change makes my edubuntu seeds explode ... 
[01:15] <infinity> I just did "apt-get install xterm xubuntu-desktop", then started trying to remove gnome libs.
[01:15] <mdz> ogra: how so?
[01:16] <ogra> mdz, tons of conflicts (server, ship-live etc)
[01:16] <Diskdoc> Hello. I have a sweet, calm saturday on my hands and I thought I'd help testing the RC. I'm not sure if this is the right channel to ask but I was wondering about the testing matrix.. Under the Testing/Current page there is a point 16 in the Matrix called "DapperUpgrades". So, is it ok for me to upgrade Breezy using the online update procedure and then test, from what step?
[01:16] <mdz> ogra: that's weird; my only change was to add one package to desktop
[01:16] <ogra> the log shows a lot more for me
[01:16] <janimo> does apt not have some logging to tell us how it decided it installs a package? 
[01:17] <ogra> there is a big tail of other chages (not from you) attached 
[01:17] <janimo> debugging rather than logging I guess
[01:18] <ogra> mdz, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mdz-merge.log
[01:19] <infinity> janimo: It has the pkgProblemResolver, but that doesn't appear to output anything on install (hence why I pinged mvo)
[01:19] <ogra> mdz, thats what i get if i do "bzr log -r649 dapper/"
[01:20] <mdz> ogra: looks right; I merged my branch with mainline and then added that one commit
[01:20] <ogra> hmm
[01:21] <mdz> ogra: you can just add landscape-client to desktop and skip the merge if there's a problem
[01:21] <infinity> janimo: So far, I'm up to this many useless packages:
[01:21] <infinity>   libbonoboui2-0* libbonoboui2-common* libgnome2-0* libgnome2-common* libgnomeui-0*
[01:21] <infinity>   libgnomeui-common* libgnomevfs2-0* libgnomevfs2-common* libgsf-gnome-1-113*
[01:21] <infinity> janimo: Can you spot more in the manifest?
[01:21] <janimo> infinity: these are what I saw too by grepping  what apt-get would install
[01:22] <ogra> mdz, yep, thats what i will do, but i suspect i'll get more and more out of sync, at least with server and ship-live i am already
[01:22] <mvo> infinity: now around (I was having lunch)
[01:23] <infinity> mvo: Is there any way to get a pkgProblemResolver-style report during "apt-get install" when the install doesn't fail? :)
[01:23] <infinity> mvo: (ie: to trace why apt is installing packages that are obviously not depdenencies of the final system state)
[01:23] <mvo> infinity: yeah, it should be: "apt-get -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true install lala" <- this should work if the problem resolver is called at all
[01:24] <mvo> infinity: but it may well be that it is not run because apt thinks its all good
[01:24] <infinity> mvo: Yeah, then it's not being run at all, cause that's in my config. :)
[01:24] <mvo> infinity: what package/situtation is this about?
[01:24] <infinity> mvo: (It runs at other times, like when removing packages with deps, so I know it works)
[01:25] <mvo> infinity: you always run with the problemResolver enabled? woah!
[01:25] <infinity> mvo: See above.  If you "install xterm xubuntu-desktop" in a clean chroot, you end up with (at least) these extra packages installed:
[01:25] <infinity>   libbonoboui2-0* libbonoboui2-common* libgnome2-0* libgnome2-common* libgnomeui-0*
[01:25] <infinity>   libgnomeui-common* libgnomevfs2-0* libgnomevfs2-common* libgsf-gnome-1-113*
[01:25] <infinity> mvo: In my chroots, I do.  Not in my base system.
[01:27] <mvo> infinity: ok, let me check
[01:28] <tsdgeos> jordi: ping
[01:29] <infinity> mvo: An option to output the full (I know it will be huge) decision tree, so I can easily track back "why the hell did you install that?" would be nice.
[01:37] <mvo> infinity: ok, I'm adding it now to see if it brings some light into this 
[01:48] <mvo> infinity: it seems like abiword is draging the stuff in
[01:50] <Lathiat> seb128: are you aware of the problem with the "Removable Devices" menu randomly eating and uneating devices?
[01:50] <seb128> Lathiat: no
[01:51] <mvo> infinity: my bzr apt has a option: "Debug::pkgDepCache::infinity" now, but I guess "Debug::pkgDepCache::AutoInstall" is more appropriate
[01:51] <seb128> Lathiat: "eating"? it's supposed to list partitions and mounted removable media, not to list CD drives with no CD mounted by example
[01:51] <Lathiat> seb128: i have 5 internal disks there all in the places menu
[01:52] <Lathiat> seb128: if i mount a usb disk, a "Removable Devices" sub-menu appears, bu tall the internal disks move into it
[01:52] <Lathiat> along with the usb disk
[01:52] <Lathiat> when i unmount it hey all go back into the main places menu
[01:52] <seb128> looks fine
[01:52] <janimo> mvo, abiword itslef or abiword-plugins?
[01:52] <Lathiat> this is expected behavior?
[01:52] <mvo> janimo: according to my debug output abiword itself
[01:52] <seb128> Lathiat: is that the presence of the menu you call "eating"?
[01:52] <Lathiat> seb128: yes :)
[01:52] <nomed> janimo, i'm pretty sure it's abiword-plugin ..
[01:53] <nomed> mvo, really ?
[01:53] <seb128> Lathiat: after 5 items you get a submenu, same for bookmarks, that's to avoid too long menu
[01:53] <Lathiat> hrm i thought it happened even when i had less..
[01:54] <mvo> nomed: libgnomecanvas is a direct dependency of abiword, this brings in libgnomeprint
[01:54] <janimo> mvo, ah those are ok
[01:54] <janimo> mvo, print and canvas
[01:54] <Goshawk> hi
[01:55] <janimo> only libgnome and libgnomeui are extra
[01:55] <_ion> gdk_window_shape_combine_mask (win->window, (GdkBitmap *) mask, 0, 0);
[01:55] <Lathiat> seb128: hrm, indeed
[01:55] <janimo> and bonobo
[01:55] <_ion> Sorry, wrong channel.
[01:55] <mvo> janimo: libgnome itself it because libgoffice brings libbonoboui and that depends on libgnom2 . libgoffice is needed for abiword-plugins
[01:55] <Lathiat> seb128: did the number change?
[01:55] <mvo> nomed: so you are right :)
[01:55] <seb128> Lathiat: not that I know of no
[01:55] <Lathiat> i've sine added another disk and i used to get the same thing, but oh well
[01:55] <mvo> nomed: I just misunderstood the issue it seems
[01:55] <janimo> mvo, we have an alternate dep on libgoffice-gtk which is seeded explcitely
[01:55] <infinity> mvo: Debug::pkgDepCache::infinity? :)
[01:55] <seb128> Lathiat: but CD drives used to be listed
[01:56] <janimo> mvo, Ithought that  would be chosen
[01:56] <seb128> Lathiat: now we list removable medias only when mounted
[01:56] <nomed> janimo, it doesn't metter
[01:56] <nomed> as it's in xubuntu-desktop
[01:56] <Lathiat> seb128: hm ok - cheers
[01:56] <seb128> Lathiat: np ;)
[01:56] <infinity> mvo: That libgoffice isn't actually pulled in.
[01:56] <Goshawk> is it possible to add userspace-bootsplash in "Provides" field of the package usplash and change the dependece of ubuntu-desktop from usplash to userspace-bootsplash? This will allow other usermode bootsplashes to work with ubuntu-desktop...
[01:56] <nomed> smart-pm would be able to resolve this .. apt doesn't
[01:57] <infinity> mvo: Note that when I do the install, then remove the above-mentioned packages, they don't remove anything I asked apt to install previously.
[01:57] <seb128> Lathiat: is the submenu itself an issue? I think we could have a gconf key for the number of items before displaying it, but not for that cycle anyway
[01:57] <nomed> infinity, that's because ..
[01:57] <nomed> libgoffice-gtk-1-2 is seeded ..
[01:57] <Lathiat> seb128: well the submenu annoys me because - and its very confusing having it appear and disappear
[01:57] <nomed> i guess
[01:57] <Lathiat> but i can see th elogic in movign to a submenu when it starts to get a bit long
[01:58] <seb128> right
[01:58] <infinity> nomed: Yes, which conflict with the other libgoffice, which means apt will only install one, which means it shouldn't be installing the deps for the other.
[01:58] <nomed> that's the case "pkge1"|"pkge2" ...
[01:58] <seb128> the issue is that you just moving around the limit
[01:58] <infinity> mvo: So, apt is installing deps for packages that it's not actually installing?
[01:58] <Lathiat> yeh
[01:58] <nomed> infinity, but abiword-plugins is in xubuntu-desktop
[01:58] <nomed> infinity, if you try ..
[01:58] <mvo> infinity: but I get it right, libgnome2-0 is the problem? 
[01:58] <nomed> probably
[01:58] <nomed> apt-get install xterm libgoffice-gtk-1.2 xubuntu-desktop
[01:58] <infinity> mvo: It's one of the problems, yes.  I gave the list above.
[01:59] <mvo> infinity: yes, it checks abiword-plugins before it comes to libgoffice-gtk-1.2
[01:59] <nomed> that issue is gone
[01:59] <infinity> mvo: So there's no reverse checking when it drops a dep, then.
[01:59] <mvo> infinity: exactly
[01:59] <infinity> mvo: (ie: it drops libgoffice-1.2, so it should drpo all its deps, then back up and re-resolve)
[01:59] <nomed> infinity, same as xterm issue ..
[02:00] <infinity> nomed: Well, no.  Different from the xterm issue.
[02:00] <infinity> nomed: Honest.
[02:00] <nomed> infinity, it looks exectly the same issue
[02:00] <nomed> see gdm 
[02:00] <mvo> infinity: what it should probably do is, first install all direct deps, then try to resolve that
[02:00] <infinity> nomed: No, cause the gdm/xterm/gnome-session thing doesn't include any conflicts, so no dependencies get dropped.
[02:01] <Lathiat> seb128: conceivably, you could implement some smarts to stop it going into a menu when it goes 1 higher if its usually on 5, definitely not for dapper tho i guess and a little complex
[02:01] <infinity> nomed: Anyhow, I can hack around it with the above rune.
[02:01] <seb128> Lathiat: right
[02:01] <Lathiat> and i guess, i dont knwo how many items is too high on 1024x78
[02:01] <nomed> infinity, k i got what you mean
[02:01] <Lathiat> and a gconf key would definiately be handy
[02:05] <infinity> mvo: Would it behave better if I did "apt-get install <all the dependencies of xubuntu-desktop>" instead of "apt-get install xubuntu-desktop"?
[02:05] <infinity> mvo: Because then everything would be an "install" target, instead of a depency target...
[02:05] <infinity> dependency, too.
[02:06] <mvo> infinity: try apt-get install libgoffice-gtk-1-2 xubuntu-desktop
[02:07] <infinity> mvo: I will, but that's only a bandaid until the same thing happens again.
[02:07] <infinity> mvo: Hence the question.
[02:07] <nomed> ehehe
[02:07] <ogra> gah
[02:07] <ogra> i'm cursed
[02:07] <mvo> infinity: I could write you a python-apt based script that should get it right all the time, would that be ok?
[02:08] <ogra> seb128, is there any chance the evo crasher loops i have twice a week will go away before release i'd be happy if i hadnt to delete my mailboxes twice a week ...
[02:09] <seb128> ogra: no
[02:09] <nomed> mvo, wouldn't it be the same as to use the germinate output of xubuntu-desktop ?
[02:09] <ogra> (especially since its hard to search in mails you dont have)
[02:09] <ogra> :/
[02:09] <seb128> ogra: we are pretty frozen now, I doubt any change will make it now
[02:09] <seb128> ogra: especially that you are the only one to get that issue so to debug it ...
[02:10] <ogra> seb128, you pointed me everytime to upsteam bugs when i showed you the traceback
[02:10] <infinity> nomed: yeah, I could use the germinate output.  The reason I don't is to test that the -meta packages actually work.
[02:10] <ogra> seb128, so i had some hope :)
[02:10] <seb128> ogra: right, but no move from upstream, they have some manys bug and so few people for them :/
[02:10] <mvo> nomed: I'm not sure about this because I think even then the order may be important
[02:11] <ogra> yep, understood ...
[02:11] <mvo> nomed: let me play with my python-apt based idea
[02:11] <infinity> Anyhow, for now I'm just going to band-aid over it.
[02:11] <ogra> but i'm not really fond of changing to another mailer, i like evo ...
[02:11] <nomed> infinity, you could test
[02:11] <infinity> For edgy, we need to mangle how we do livefs stuff a bit, I think.
[02:11] <nomed> apt-gte install xubuntu-desktop xterm ?
[02:11] <nomed> infinity, if for edjy smart-pm will be in main ...
[02:12] <nomed> that issue is gone
[02:12] <infinity> Yeah, the bandaid appears to do the right thing for now.
[02:13] <infinity> nomed: While your enthusiasm is appreciated, I have a hunch that for every apt bug smart fixes, it'll bring a new bug of its own instead.
[02:13] <infinity> I don't doubt that switching will be a wonderful thing at some point, but I'm in no rush to trade the bugs I know for the unknown either. :)
[02:14] <nomed> i understand :)
[02:19] <infinity> janimo: Want me to build you new live images with the reduced package set?
[02:20] <janimo> infinity: reduced?
[02:20] <infinity> janimo: Without libgnome and crap. :)
[02:20] <janimo> ah :) , it can wait till next cron if you think it works :)
[02:21] <janimo> thanks
[02:21] <infinity> I'm not positive, but I think so...
[02:21] <janimo> ok, please build then so we make sure it does not come up tomorrow or on Monday
[02:22] <infinity> Alright, spinning livefs builds.
[02:22] <janimo> thanks for debugging it. I still wonder why this is the case since the abiword change is in for about two weeks I think, and noone reported this before
[02:23] <janimo> and IIRC when it just depended on libgoffice w/o the alternate it brought in >50Mb worth of gnome stuff not jjust these libs
[02:26] <nomed> janimo, would it be an idea to set the xubuntu gtk theme in gdm ?
[02:26] <janimo> nomed: which theme would that be?
[02:26] <janimo> clearlooks?
[02:26] <nomed> yes
[02:27] <nomed> well ..
[02:27] <janimo> I guess we should set it
[02:27] <nomed> the one that we use 
[02:27] <janimo> is the theme visible in the gdm screen?
[02:27] <nomed> yes
[02:27] <ogra> janimo, btw, how did you work around the fact that ldm depends on a ton of gnome libs ? 
[02:28] <janimo> ogra, does ldm dep on gnome libs?
[02:28] <janimo> if so I guess I'll have to revert the LTSP stuff :(
[02:28] <janimo> did not know I thought it's a simple python script w/o deps
[02:28] <janimo> I did not check before
[02:29] <janimo> nomed: so replace GtkTheme=Human right?
[02:29] <nomed> yes
[02:29] <ogra> janimo, Depends: openssh-client | ssh, python, python-gtk2, python-gnome2, python-glade2, gtk2-engines-clearlooks, xserver-xorg | xserver-xfree86 | xserver
[02:29] <janimo> nomed, are you working on gdm icons? If so I can make the change in the same upload
[02:29] <nomed> janimo, python-gnome2
[02:29] <nomed> janimo, i can do that 
[02:29] <janimo> ogra: oh well, I guess then no LTSP/xubuntu :(
[02:30] <janimo> what is used from python-gnome2? canvas?
[02:30] <ogra> janimo, we *might* switch to gdm on edgy, seems it has a ssh mode now
[02:30] <mvo> infinity: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/stable_inst.py <- should give you a stable way to install
[02:30] <ogra> janimo, yep, ldm is 95% gnome-canvas and 5% magic
[02:31] <infinity> mvo: And if I want to use it in a chroot?  Can I point it at another apt root?
[02:31] <janimo> ogra, I wish gnome-python did not bind the whole gnome libs in one binary package :(
[02:31] <mvo> infinity: do you currently run with lots of "-o Dir::State=/chroot" etc options?
[02:32] <ogra> janimo, well, nothing we can change now
[02:32] <janimo> ogra, true
[02:32] <infinity> mvo: No, right now I just cheat and do "chroot target/ apt-get install ..."
[02:32] <infinity> mvo: But since I don't want your python script or python-apt in the chroot. :)
[02:33] <mvo> infinity: run the script outside the chroot and just use the package names it spits out :)
[02:34] <infinity> mvo: Oh, it'll give me the "correct" install order?
[02:34] <infinity> mvo: Cool.
[02:34] <infinity> mvo: (Obviously, I hadn't actually run it yet)
[02:34] <mvo> infinity: that reminds me, I should probably get rid of the ugly progress message
[02:35] <mvo> infinity: it first goes over all dependencies and marks them for install *without* letting the autoInstaller or the fixer do anything. then it runs the fixer and let it deal with it. should be fine for the metapackages and cases like this
[02:35] <mvo> I think it should bprobably be done in apt in a similar way
[02:35] <infinity> mvo: Err, no.  Running it outside the chroot won't help, since it needs to use the available/status from the target. :)
[02:35] <infinity> mvo: So, yeah, I need a bunch of -o parsing, which I don't see it doing.
[02:36] <mvo> infinity: ok, we can point it via apt_pkg.Config.Set("Dir::" to the right location. or you just install the very usefull python-apt in the chroot ;) 
[02:37] <infinity> I don't feel the urge to install python-apt in the livefs target and them remove it again at the end. :)
[02:37] <infinity> Ideally, this should all be done from the base system.
[02:38] <infinity> mvo: However, Dir:: is a constant, so it doesn't need to be done from the command-line.  I can just hardcode it and wrap this into the livecd-rootfs package for future use.
[02:38] <mvo> just kidding, I see the point
[02:38] <infinity> (All for edgy, of course... I'm not changing anything this drastic at this point)
[02:38] <infinity> Right now, I'm "happy" with hackish workarounds.
[02:39] <infinity> And by "happy", I mean "miserable".  :)
[02:41] <mvo> infinity: try the updated version http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/stable_inst.py
[02:42] <infinity> +# first argument is the chroot
[02:42] <infinity> That's a complete lie.
[02:43] <infinity> You don't parse it as an argument at all. :)
[02:43] <infinity> (Not that you need to, I'm fine with the hardcoded version)
[02:43] <mvo> infinity: I intended to at first ,)
[02:44] <infinity> The only thing worse than uncommented code is commented code where the code and comments don't match. :)
[02:45] <mvo> infinity: that is totally true!
[02:45] <lifeless> infinity: that can be usefulu actually :)
[02:45] <infinity> Well, now, that comment isn't very nice at all.
[02:45] <infinity> JERK.
[02:45] <lifeless> because it can signal something needs fixing :)
[02:46] <mvo> infinity: fixed again, now you can pick what project this one belongs to
[02:46] <jordi> tsdgeos: pong
[02:47] <nomed> janimo, ping
[02:47] <infinity> Man, the comment keeps changing, but the code never does.  ENTERTAINMENT.
[02:47] <janimo> nomed: pong
[02:47] <nomed> janimo, that theme is absurd ...
[02:47] <nomed> icon-shutdown-active.png
[02:48] <nomed> icon-shutdown.png
[02:48] <nomed> icon-shutdown-prelight.png
[02:48] <nomed> ?
[02:48] <nomed> what's that ?
[02:48] <janimo> different icons for different states of the button (mouse hovering over it, clicked, inactive)
[02:48] <nomed> why don't we use just one ?
[02:48] <nomed> janimo, true if they were different icons
[02:49] <janimo> we can use one, as the 3 are exaclty the same right now
[02:49] <janimo> nomed, yes feel free to use one
[02:49] <nomed> k
[02:51] <mvo> infinity: the code is PERFECT
[02:51] <mvo> its just the comments that need love
[02:52] <janimo> ogra: what is this landscape package? do I need to add it to xubuntu :) ?
[02:53] <ogra> janimo, you should (its empty anyway) see apt-cache show landscape-client
[02:53] <infinity> mvo: Heh. :)
[02:53] <janimo> ogra, any LP links for Landscape yet?
[02:54] <nomed> janimo, and if i use absolute paths ?
[02:54] <ogra> dunno, i didnt follow the development very closely
[02:54] <nomed> so i remove all those icons :P
[02:54] <janimo> nomed, we should not cannot depend on a theme...
[02:54] <zul> heylo
[02:54] <janimo> if it's not there the icons won't show up
[02:56] <mdke> janimo: you know, it struck me that you could include the server and packaging guide in xubuntu-docs if you wanted. Maybe it's a bit late
[02:56] <nomed> janimo, why doesn't xubuntu-default-settings depend on any pkge ?
[02:56] <janimo> mdke, if I do another docs upload I'll try to keep this in mind
[02:57] <janimo> mdke, although we have no prominent place for showing the docs, the desktop guide is linked from the about page
[02:57] <nomed> janimo, it has to depend on
[02:57] <mdke> janimo: yeah, you'd have to add it there, I suppose. Anyway, I'll leave it to you
[02:57] <janimo> nomed: it des not need to dep on gdm
[02:57] <nomed> Human if we use Human as gtk theme i guess
[02:57] <nomed> or on xubuntu one if we use xubuntu one ..
[02:57] <seb128> janimo: you are really obstined on that thunar bug :/
[02:58] <janimo> seb128: no, I just do not understand your comments
[02:58] <janimo> seb128: and you are not actually saying anything about the real issues upstream brought up
[02:58] <seb128> janimo: grrrrr
[02:58] <seb128> I explained you how all that works like 5 times now
[02:58] <janimo> seb128: ok question.
[02:59] <seb128> THAT IS NOT A MIMETYPE, STOP USING IT
[02:59] <janimo> seb128: should Places be openable by anything but nautilus?
[02:59] <seb128> yep
[02:59] <seb128> by the default "x-directory/normal" handler
[02:59] <janimo> seb128: how can that be set?
[02:59] <janimo> ok
[02:59] <seb128> x-directory/normal=app.desktop to defaults.list
[02:59] <seb128> I already explained that on IRC and on the bug
[02:59] <lmanul> janimo: give seb128 a break or he'll really hate you ;-)
[02:59] <janimo> that is set by both nautilus and thunar right?
[02:59] <janimo> lmanul: too late :)
[02:59] <nomed> seb128, question.
[03:00] <nomed> what does it happen if gdm doesn't find the gtk theme ?
[03:00] <lmanul> janimo: Hehe, well, maybe try to print out the IRC log and read it a few times ? :)
[03:00] <seb128> janimo: nothing is "set" by them, they both can open x-directory/normal yes, the default is set by the defaults.list
[03:00] <janimo> lmanul: printers do not work in xubuntu, I cannot do that
[03:00] <janimo> seb128: so if there are two handlers, why does gnome not use them?
[03:00] <lmanul> janimo: then just read it on the screen :-p
[03:01] <seb128> janimo: because you "hijack and break" that mimetype mechanism by using a private namespace fallback
[03:01] <janimo> seb128: cannot be that prvate if firefox is using it?
[03:01] <seb128> stop with that now
[03:01] <seb128> stop claiming that firefox use it
[03:01] <seb128> or prove it
[03:02] <janimo> seb128: and again. I do not hijack or break anything. Remember this is upstream thunar behavior. I'd rather you fight it out with upstream developer rather than
[03:02] <seb128> that's a free claim without any technical backup
[03:02] <janimo> forcing me to make a change which I do not fully understand the risks of
[03:02] <seb128> I'll not force you to do anything
[03:02] <seb128> I'll fix it myself
[03:02] <janimo> seb128: well that's the same thing
[03:02] <seb128> GNOME is the default desktop and better to have xubuntu than Ubuntu broken, that you like it or not
[03:03] <janimo> seb128: are you sure you will not break firefox in xubuntu?
[03:03] <janimo> seb128: oh really? how technical is that answer?
[03:03] <janimo> and gnoome is NOT BROKEN!
[03:03] <seb128> it is
[03:03] <janimo> user installs thunar then complains it opens it's places
[03:03] <seb128> thunar hijack the directory opening
[03:03] <janimo> do notr install it then
[03:03] <seb128> grumpf
[03:04] <mdke> that's definitely a bug.
[03:04] <azeem> make nautilus Conflicts: thunar
[03:04] <seb128> what about reading what I explained you like 10 times now on how mimetype association work?
[03:04] <janimo> really , I'd rather make thunar conflict with nautilus than make a change which can affect the default xubuntu install
[03:04] <mdke> konq was doing the same at one stage, thanksfully it was fixed
[03:04] <seb128> a directory is x-directory/normal
[03:04] <seb128> you can discuss with kubuntu guys, not with xubuntu team it looks like
[03:04] <janimo> seb128: I asked you to please answer the points upstream thunar is rainsing rather then repeating the same arguments _to me_
[03:04] <seb128> that's noted for next time they need something
[03:05] <seb128> I already wasted 1 hour explaining again and again the same thing
[03:05] <janimo> I am not thunar usptream have only a avgue idea how the mime system works 
[03:05] <seb128> janimo: I commented on the bug
[03:05] <seb128> and upstream has not point
[03:05] <janimo> so I am not comfortable doing osmething because you claim it breaks gnome, since I know you don;t care at all if it breaks xubuntu
[03:05] <seb128> it looks like they rather don't know how the freedesktop mimesystem work
[03:05] <janimo> so please answer the points brought up by thunar upstream and I am fine with whatever you two decide
[03:06] <seb128> I REPLIED
[03:06] <janimo> but do not make me do a change or threaten to do it yourslef without being sure of it's consequences
[03:06] <seb128> I don't threaten
[03:06] <seb128> I inform you I'll fix that bug if you don't
[03:06] <janimo> seb128: you did not reply. A reply is when what you say is connected to what previous comment said
[03:06] <seb128> they didn't say anything
[03:07] <seb128> they say "firefox might use it"
[03:08] <janimo> seb128: ok if firefox does not use it  or it does not break anything I am fine with any fix you make
[03:08] <infinity> What's the bug here?
[03:08] <janimo> thing is you don;t know if that;s the case and you don;'t care. So your fix may cause other bugs
[03:08] <janimo> infinity: bug 35997
[03:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35997 in libgnome "Gnome's Places menu starts Konqueror instead of Nautilus" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35997
[03:09] <seb128> infinity: thunar listing itself as an app opening "x-directory/gnome-default-handler", where "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" is not a mimetype but something internally defined by gnome-vfs as a fallback mechanism
[03:09] <janimo> infinity: at the end, since it's an older bug that has a new duplicate
[03:09] <janimo> seb128: 'fallback mechanism' implies there are no alternatives right?
[03:09] <janimo> so if there are two default handlers and they are not used I would not call it fallback...
[03:10] <seb128> janimo: it implies what I explained before, if no app is defined to handle "x-directory/normal" gnome-vfs force one
[03:10] <seb128> janimo: it should be set only if there is no x-directory/normal handler since it hijacks x-directory/normal when set
[03:10] <janimo> seb128: dont' nautilus and thunat both handel x-directory/normal
[03:10] <janimo> ?
[03:10] <seb128> janimo: THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD NOT SET IT
[03:11] <janimo> seb128: it's not a fallback then
[03:11] <seb128> IT SHOULD BE SET IF NO APP HANDLE THAT TYPE ONLY
[03:12] <seb128> janimo: it's a fallback in the sense it's set and used only if there is no x-directory/normal handler
[03:12] <zul> cant we all just get along?
[03:12] <seb128> zul: no, thunar breaks GNOME and janimo will not fix the bug for whatever reason
[03:12] <janimo> seb128: do you have any docs about how this private thing is suppoed to work
[03:12] <ogra> heh
[03:12] <seb128> janimo: no, it's private stuff, not public API documented
[03:12] <janimo> I cannot further discuss this since we are not getting anywhere
[03:13] <seb128> janimo: it's supposed to NOT be used
[03:13] <nomed> ogra, what does it happen if gdm can't find the gtkTheme ?
[03:13] <ogra> it falls back to the one in gdm.conf 
[03:13] <infinity> janimo: seb128 is right here.  You shouldn't be using the GNOME handler.
[03:13] <seb128> janimo: right, you seem to have no knowledge of the mimetype mechanism nor and will not listen to what people explain
[03:13] <ogra> if there is none found either it falls back to HappyGNOME or something
[03:14] <janimo> infinity: I am not disputing that, I'd rather that instead of yelling at me he commented the exact same things in LP
[03:14] <nomed> ok ...
[03:14] <janimo> seb128: I am listening but not before making sure your fix does not cause more breakage
[03:14] <infinity> janimo: He has, as far as I can see in the bug log.
[03:14] <nomed> so it doesn't need to depend on any gtk theme true ?
[03:14] <janimo> infinity: ok, it means I am really that clueless what can I say.
[03:14] <seb128> janimo: I tried my best to explain you that's right, what about try on your xubuntu and let me know if you face any issue?
[03:15] <janimo> seb128: I will
[03:15] <seb128> janimo: do it now and not after dapper please then
[03:15] <seb128> instead of saying again and again it might break something and that you refuse to do the change because of that
[03:17] <infinity> janimo: In the upstream bug, upstream says" If software (like
[03:17] <infinity> gnome-panel) wants to use nautilus, it should simply run nautilus.
[03:17] <infinity> x-directory/gnome-default-handler is not garantied to be nautilus; in fact that
[03:17] <infinity> would be really useless. Instead it's the user's preferred file manager."
[03:17] <seb128> gnome-panel doesn't want to run nautilus, it wants to run the preferred handler for x-directory/normal
[03:18] <ogra> nomed, oh, sorry, i misread ... i thought youre talking about the GDM theme
[03:18] <infinity> janimo: Respond, and let them know that x-directory/gnome-default-handler is the default *GNOME* file manager fallback, but x-directory/normal is the *default file manager*.
[03:18] <nomed> ogra, yes and not ..
[03:18] <nomed> :)
[03:18] <ogra> no idea how it handles a missing gtk theme 
[03:18] <ogra> i guess it falls back to the default widget set
[03:18] <infinity> janimo: He seems to not know about x-directory/normal, since he earlier states "x-directory/gnome-default-handler is, as
[03:18] <infinity> the name suggests, the default handler for directories (should be renamed to
[03:18] <infinity> something w/o 'gnome' in its name to avoid confusion)"
[03:18] <infinity> (Which is wrong)
[03:19] <nomed> ogra, i see edubuntu-artwork depends on gdm
[03:19] <seb128> (cf my comment on lp from "2006-05-27 10:40:15 UTC")
[03:19] <infinity> It has gnome- in the name, specifically because it IS gnome-specific.
[03:19] <janimo> oh I wish one of yoou commented on that bugzilla instead of me proxying
[03:19] <seb128> "That works for any mimetype. A directory is from "x-directory/normal" type, setting a default is only usin "x-directory/normal=app.desktop" to the defaults.list"
[03:19] <ogra> nomed, yep
[03:19] <infinity> janimo: That would involve signing up for another bugzilla. :)
[03:19] <janimo> infinity: I know that;s why I am not asking you to :)
[03:20] <nomed> janimo, shouldn't xubuntu-default-settings depends on gdm too ?
[03:20] <janimo> but thing is I am caught between upstream and ubuntu on a matter I know too little about
[03:20] <janimo> to be convinced by either
[03:20] <janimo> being threatened or yelled at does not help in such cases
[03:20] <janimo> quite the opposite actually
[03:21] <janimo> nomed: no it can work w/oo gdm
[03:21] <seb128> I yell because you ask again and again the same questions and I already replied to them
[03:21] <infinity> janimo: I'm not yelling at you.  I'm not French.  :)  I'm just telling you that seb128 is right.
[03:21] <infinity> seb128: Enjoy it while it lasts, I'll decide you're wrong about something else tomorrow. ;)
[03:21] <seb128> I've enough bugs to reply to, to not explain myself 5 times on that one
[03:21] <seb128> infinity: hehe ;)
[03:22] <seb128> janimo: what you are saying is "I'll not fix the bug because I don't know how to fix it, and I'll not let you fix it because I don't trust you to not break xubuntu"
[03:22] <seb128> janimo: which is basically "I'll not fix that for dapper"
[03:22] <infinity> Argh, where's pitti?
[03:23] <ogra> just make thunar conflict with nautilus ... :P
[03:23] <janimo> seb128: no, I say I am not going to fix it before I am convinced it's an actual fix
[03:23] <infinity> seb128: Do you know anything about pitti breaking the poppler ABI?
[03:23] <janimo> seb128: it will be sorted by dapper one way or another
[03:23] <seb128> infinity: yeah, cf devel list
[03:23] <nomed> if it helps i may test it on a livecd (?)
[03:23] <infinity> seb128: Yeah, I meant "anything more than that". :)
[03:23] <seb128> infinity: we decided that tetex-bin rebuild is the way to go, all the other packages using poppler have been rebuilt since
[03:23] <seb128> infinity: but mdz didn't reply to my "ok to rebuild it now before dapper"
[03:24] <seb128> janimo: are you aware that it might be too late for changing for dapper already?
[03:24] <janimo> seb128: no, it's not
[03:25] <seb128> janimo: if you decide you will no fix it and that we have to change gnome-vfs it's probably
[03:25] <janimo> if it were how did you want to fix it today?
[03:25] <janimo> seb128: no worries it will be fixed in thunar.
[03:25] <seb128> lol
[03:26] <infinity> seb128: But we habe a different ABI from Debian now, with the same package name and same SONAME.
[03:26] <seb128> the only way you have to change that to thunar is what I said
[03:26] <infinity> seb128: That's double-plus ungood, in my books.
[03:26] <seb128> infinity: 
[03:26] <seb128> mai 26 18:25:10 <mdz>	pitti: if packages were built with the changed libpoppler they might need to be rebuilt
[03:26] <seb128> mai 26 18:25:10 <seb128>	pitti: because if the ABI change we probably want to revert it, no?
[03:26] <seb128> mai 26 18:25:13 <pitti>	seb128: TBH, rebuilding the rdepends seems safer to me
[03:27] <seb128> ...
[03:27] <seb128> mai 26 18:26:12 <seb128>	pitti: but we make us binary incompatible with rest of the world then?
[03:27] <seb128> ..
[03:27] <seb128> mai 26 18:27:33 <pitti>	seb128: is that an issue? if so, well, then we can revert the bug fix, too, but I wouldn't be so happy about reintroducing a bug
[03:27] <seb128> infinity: that's from yesterday
[03:27] <infinity> seb128: Thanks.
[03:27] <seb128> np
[03:28] <infinity> seb128: Oh, we may be saved.  Our poppler SONAME is already different from Debian's.
[03:28] <infinity> And binary compatibility with the rest of the world is less of a concern for me.
[03:28] <seb128> I think they have a new poppler version with the same soname to NEW atm
[03:28] <nomed> janimo, ping me when you'll have 2 min ...
[03:29] <janimo> nomed: now
[03:29] <nomed> ok
[03:29] <infinity> seb128: I can contact Ondrej and ask him to include our patch before it clears NEW, thus sidestepping the problem. :)
[03:29] <nomed> we're not using the gtk theme (?)
[03:29] <janimo> anyone besided fabbione know why ubnutu and kubuntu-devel irclogs are collecting the whole past week?
[03:29] <seb128> infinity: right ;)
[03:29] <janimo> nomed: where?
[03:30] <nomed> i do not see the xubuntu gtk theme based on ubuntu-looks
[03:30] <nomed> didn't jmak send it to you ?
[03:30] <nomed> or jmack .. i don't remember the nick 
[03:31] <janimo> nomed: no the deafult remains clearlook
[03:31] <janimo> that theme he sent was incomplete
[03:31] <janimo> too late to change that now, it remain clearlook
[03:31] <nomed> he could just tell me 
[03:32] <janimo> he sent the themes to the list and noone else commented on them
[03:32] <nomed> i could even complete it ..
[03:32] <janimo> nomed: is the current one not good enough?
[03:32] <nomed> i think to use cairo ..
[03:32] <nomed> we could use ubuntu-looks
[03:32] <nomed> that's much better
[03:33] <zul> janimo: all the logs are doing that
[03:33] <janimo> zul, and is it intended?
[03:34] <nomed> janimo, then ..
[03:34] <seb128> ok, time for some non-ubuntish activities for a change, bbl
[03:35] <ogra> janimo, that we have backlogs for 2 years form all channels ? sure, why shouldnt we log if we dont keep them
[03:35] <nomed> if it 's possible to set xubuntu-default-settings Depends: tango-icon-theme
[03:35] <ogra> s/shouldnt/should/
[03:35] <janimo> ogra: I mean in the same file
[03:35] <nomed> i could use abs paths within the gdm xml
[03:35] <nomed> that's for icons ..
[03:36] <janimo> ogra: there are no daily channel logs for the past week, only one beeg weekly log
[03:36] <nomed> in this case i guess we do not need to add licences for the icons used
[03:36] <nomed> as they are cc
[03:36] <janimo> nomed, it's ok as it is now, the license is not problem
[03:36] <janimo> it would be too much work at this stage for little gain
[03:36] <janimo> so we either leave the theme as it is now, or replace those 2 icons
[03:37] <nomed> so i'll not change those icons
[03:37] <janimo> and set theme to Clearlooks if you think it's better tha human
[03:37] <nomed> let's keep that pkge as it is
[03:37] <janimo> nomed: ok
[03:37] <ogra> JanC, no idea, you need to ask fabio
[03:37] <ogra> janimo, ^^
[03:37] <janimo> ogra, yes that why I started with does anyone besided fabbione know ;) ?
[03:48] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:55] <zul> hey fabbione how is the uk?
[03:55] <Diskdoc> I'm back.. Can't seem to find any other channel more suited for Ubuntu RC bugtesting..
[03:55] <fabbione> zul: exactly like i left it last time.. warm and wet
[03:55] <zul> hmmmm...sicko...:)
[03:56] <ogra> fabbione, did you ever get your dvb-t card to work ?
[03:56] <fabbione> ogra: i don't have a dvb-t card yet
[03:56] <fabbione> only a boring analog tv
[03:57] <ogra> ah, k 
[03:57] <ogra> i'm still struggling here
[03:57] <fabbione> planning to shop for them after release
[03:57] <fabbione> i have some issues... but i am nto sure if they are nv / nvidia related.
[03:57] <ogra> seems my usb adapter is recognized fine after dropping the firmware into /lib/firmware ...
[03:58] <janimo> fabbione: hi, are the irc logs supposed to not have daily dumps?
[03:58] <ogra> but i always get "tuning failed" messages
[03:58] <janimo> this channel's runs back a week already
[03:58] <fabbione> ogra: mine doesn't need fw
[03:58] <fabbione> janimo: they are supposed to be updated hourly and the script rotate on daily
[03:58] <ogra> well, i want to use it on a leptop so i needed to buy a usb one ...
[03:59] <fabbione> ogra: no i will buy PCI, but only after i test the analog one properly
[03:59] <fabbione> i want to make sure that it is not a v4l2 issue
[03:59] <fabbione> i solved the vbi one.. it was a bug in udev
[03:59] <ogra> analog works fine for me, the prob is only that analog tv will be switched off germany wide this month
[04:00] <ogra> dvb doesnt use v4l so i'm safe on that side :)
[04:00] <fabbione> whops
[04:02] <fabbione> janimo, Riddell: the logs are ok the bot.. checking the connection to the DC
[04:02] <fabbione> at least they are not lost :)
[04:02] <azeem> W 44
[04:02] <azeem> oops
[04:09] <fabbione> janimo, Riddell: ok fixed. It was an error in the daily rotate script. Can you please remind me after release to process the logs for the missing days?
[04:09] <janimo> fabbione: will try to remember :)
[04:10] <fabbione> janimo, Riddell: they are not lost.. they just need an upload
[04:10] <fabbione> but i am far from the server and bw is not fast for these kind of hacks
[04:10] <fabbione> -current anyway are good
[04:16] <Diskdoc> If I find bugs in the Dapper RC that are already noted (though not resolved) for an earlier version of Ubuntu - should I post the bug again (as concerning Dapper/RC) or just add a note at the existing bug? I'd guess at the latter..
[04:17] <ogra> add a note
[04:17] <sladen> Diskdoc: don't duplicate bugs, but do update it
[04:17] <fabbione> reopen the bug, increase severity and add tag REGRESSION
[04:17] <fabbione> hey sabdf1 
[04:17] <bddebian> Hello sabdfl
[04:17] <sabdfl> hey hey fredom lovers
[04:18] <sabdfl> s/fre/free/
[04:18] <mdke> happy saturday
[04:19] <zakame> hi all
[04:19] <zakame> hi sabdfl 
[04:19] <Diskdoc> Ok, thanks. This old PC I'm trying it out on has a strange twist to it, btw. Seems DMA (and block access maybe) has to be disabled for the CD-ROM in the bios AND at kernel boot with ide=nodma
[04:20] <Diskdoc> Though when the desktop-CD has booted I can turn on everything with hdparm again
[04:21] <zakame> fabbione: hi!
[04:21] <fabbione> hey zakame 
[04:21] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[04:21] <fabbione> zakame: how is your X thingy going?
[04:22] <fabbione> zakame: infinity and I are planning the work for 7.1
[04:22] <pitti> hi
[04:22] <fabbione> zakame: and i would really really love to see you involved
[04:22] <fabbione> hey pitti 
[04:23] <bddebian> Hello pitti
[04:24] <zakame> fabbione: It's going great! I'm still ploughing over the drivers list, but I seem to have managed =)
[04:24] <fabbione> zakame: great
[04:24] <zakame> fabbione: ooh! so do I! :D
[04:24] <fabbione> zakame: the idea is simple...
[04:25] <fabbione> zakame: as soon as edgy will open, we will merge 7.0 from debian and sync the packaging
[04:25] <fabbione> zakame: once that's done we will bump to 7.1 (if debian isn't there yet)
[04:25] <infinity> fabbione: Ahh, you're recruiting lackeys.  Good, good. :)
[04:26] <fabbione> infinity: zakame is learning :)
[04:26] <zakame> hmm I remember aba (or was it hmh) saying something about it on #d-devel
[04:26] <fabbione> infinity: so we will need to drive him a bit but i am sure he will do a great job
[04:26] <zakame> infinity: LOL!
[04:26] <zakame> fabbione: thanks! :)
[04:26] <bddebian> Hmm
[04:26] <lifeless> gnight
[04:26] <infinity> Oh, and anything that even vaguely mentions "mesa", I suspect you two should just leave to me, since we're forked so far from Debian it hurts.
[04:26] <fabbione> lifeless: night
[04:26] <infinity> I'll try to sort it all out early on.
[04:27] <zakame> gn8 lifeless 
[04:27] <fabbione> infinity: we will need a new mesa from upstream anyway
[04:27] <bddebian> gnight lifeless
[04:27] <infinity> Yeah, but the packaging is horibly forked, I mean.
[04:27] <fabbione> infinity: otherwise a lot of features in 7.1 will be null
[04:27] <fabbione> infinity: yeah that too
[04:27] <infinity> I'll have to mangle the packaging a bit before we bump to new upstream.
[04:27] <lifeless> ~
[04:27] <infinity> (And get some mangling fixes back into Debian while I'm at it)
[04:27] <fabbione> infinity: we can work in parallel to get all the pkging sorted and later we bump upstream
[04:28] <infinity> That sounds ideal ot me.
[04:28] <infinity> to, as well.
[04:28] <bddebian> And fix xmkmf too? :-)
[04:28] <fabbione> infinity: you and I can do protos, libs and drivers/server and zakame can start stretching his wings on the apps that have less disaster impact
[04:28] <infinity> fabbione / zakame: When we do this, I'll want us to keep a running list of everywhere where our packaging is forked (not patches, but hacks we need to make in debian/control for smooth transitions, that sort of thing)
[04:28] <zakame> bddebian: yeah! I remember that Xp6 dependency bug again...
[04:29] <infinity> fabbione / zakame: I can then take that list and try to get all our hacks back into Debian as well.
[04:29] <bddebian> zakame: :-)
[04:29] <fabbione> infinity: i think while we do the batch work we should sit in a quiet irc channel and track everything
[04:29] <fabbione> infinity: patches and packaging
[04:29] <fabbione> infinity: get daniels to commit patches and you to push pkging
[04:30] <bddebian> I suppose asking if I could provide any help would be fruitless?
[04:30] <infinity> I'll happily invite vorlon, gravity, and daniels to idle in that same channel, so they can pipe up if something seems "not right" from their end.
[04:30] <fabbione> bddebian: how much do you know about X?
[04:30] <infinity> (Or just ignore us entirely, their choice)
[04:30] <fabbione> infinity: yup i agree
[04:30] <fabbione> bddebian: zakame has been learning just how to build X for the past 2 weeks to be able to help..
[04:31] <zakame> fabbione / infinity: ok!  I'll add that to the list :D
[04:31] <fabbione> bddebian: and this transition has to go very fast in.
[04:31] <bddebian> fabbione: Not as much as I would like to
[04:31] <fabbione> infinity: zakame is preparing a schema to track a bunch of data already
[04:31] <fabbione> infinity: on my input..
[04:31] <fabbione> infinity: i am sure he can add more since he got it written down already
[04:31] <infinity> fabbione: We have some small things to transition to get back in sync (Debian chose a more FHS-compliant font directory scheme than Daniel originally did, for instance), but most of it looks pretty smooth.
[04:32] <zakame> yeah, I remember already putting down the x11-proto libs in pastebin
[04:32] <fabbione> bddebian: i am sorry but X is a commitment that i am not going to give out to sporadic help. It's a "package" that requires dedication and constant attention
[04:32] <fabbione> bddebian: and to several degree also a deep knowledge
[04:33] <zakame> I'll be putting the list up on tiber once they're done (which is very very soon :D)
[04:33] <fabbione> bddebian: if you are keen to learn good, but sporadic will get you nowhere
[04:33] <ogra> btw, was there a final decisio if we upgrade nvidia drivers before release ?
[04:34] <bddebian> fabbione: No problem.  Offer stands if I can do anything.  ANd yes I would learn but I seem to irritate you for some reason. :-)
[04:34] <mvo> mdz: permission to upload a update gnome-app-install? updated desktop files and two (small) fixes?
[04:34] <zul> bddebian, iritating fabbione is fun though :)
[04:34] <fabbione> bddebian: eh??? no it's nothing like that.. i need people with commitment.. if you are keen to learn I am glad for you to join the team
[04:35] <fabbione> bddebian: what i am asking you is to think about it before you offer for something that's pretty big and time consuming
[04:36] <bddebian> Well the only reservation I would have is that we seem to keep losing good people from Universe to main. :-(
[04:37] <bddebian> Not that I'm "good" per se, but I hit a lot of packages for Universe
[04:37] <fabbione> zul: shusshhh'
[04:38] <zakame> hehe
[04:40] <bddebian> Err silence even
[04:43] <pitti> mvo: ah, just reading your u-m changelog. thanks for fixing the removal of obsolete packages
[04:44] <pitti> mvo: do you have any idea about the missing l-support-en?
[04:44] <mvo> pitti: cheers, thanks for spotting it in the first place
[04:44] <mvo> pitti: I suspect a dependency problem in OOo, but i need to investigate
[04:52] <infinity> What's this about OOo dependency issues?
[04:52] <infinity> This doesn't have anything to do with the fact that I just noticed (like 10 minutes ago) that openoffice.org Conflict with openoffice.org2 (unversioned), while the latter depends on the former?
[04:53] <infinity> I wish I'd noticed that YESTERDAY, so I didn't have to upload again to fix that upgrade path... *sigh*
[04:55] <mvo> infinity: one of the language support things, its only a theory now, not a known fact
[04:55] <infinity> mvo: Oh, so a different bug.  Great.
[04:56] <infinity> mvo: I need to upload OOo again for the above, so can you find out for me if it's also buggy in some other way, so I don't have to upload twice? :/
[04:56] <mvo> infinity: ok, I'll invetigate now
[04:57] <doko_> infinity: please wait with the next OOo upload; have to fix an upgrade error as well
[05:00] <infinity> doko_: You mean other than this "can't upgrade from breezy at all" error? :)
[05:00] <doko_> infinity: yes
[05:01] <infinity> doko_: Mmkay.
[05:02] <Kamion> Seveas: please do not mark ubiquity bugs as duplicates; you're getting it wrong
[05:02] <Kamion> Seveas: (there are multiple reasons why the bugs you're marking as duplicates might appear)
[05:02] <Kamion> Seveas: please leave ubiquity bugs to me
[05:03] <Kamion> (at least, you're potentially getting it wrong; from the evidence, there is insufficient proof)
[05:06] <Riddell> thank fabbione 
[05:06] <ogra> fabbione, is there any equivalent to IgnoreEDID in the nv driver ? 
[05:07] <fabbione> man nv
[05:07] <ogra> seems i cant get widescreen resolutions at all with nv ...
[05:07] <ogra> only nvidia works
[05:07] <ogra> fabbione, enjoy ! :)
[05:08] <Riddell> carlos, jordi: here's a fun thread for you http://lists.kde.org/?t=114872530400008&r=1&w=2
[05:09] <Seveas> Kamion, sorry, I thought I only picked exact duplicate traces
[05:10] <infinity> doko_: Can you push your fix to me ASAP?  As soon as mdz gives me an okay on this, I want to get it up and built so the buildds and archive have settle before eveyone gets back to work on Monday.
[05:10] <Seveas> I wouldn't dare touch ubiquity bugs except exact duplicates
[05:10] <Diskdoc> Testing out the RC Desktop-CD. Now partitioning in expert mode - where are the raid options?
[05:10] <infinity> mdz: Ping.
[05:10] <doko_> infinity: sure, let me do this tonight, have to go shopping now
[05:11] <infinity> doko_: Okay, I have to sleep soon anyway, but I'll be hoping to see it in my INBOX when I wake up. :)
[05:12] <doko_> infinity: sleep well ... and long ... ;-P
[05:12] <mdz> infinity: pong
[05:12] <mdz> what's up?
[05:12] <infinity> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/dapper_probs.html
[05:12] <mdz> mvo: diff for g-a-i update?
[05:12] <infinity> mdz: As it turns out, those uninstallables aren't an archive problem (as we suspected, and thus did nothing about), but rather broken unversioned conflicts between openoffice.org-* and openoffice.org2-*
[05:13] <mdz> infinity: the oo.o2 thing? that's been there for ages
[05:13] <mdz> aha
[05:13] <infinity> mdz: Permission to upload (yet again, yay!) to fix that, so upgrade without ubuntu-desktop installed won't explode? :)
[05:13] <mdz> infinity: yes...whichever of you or doko makes the fix, the other should eyeball it before building
[05:14] <mdz> infinity: going to take fabio out for a drink; please SMS at the number in the wiki and let me know how it turns out
[05:14] <infinity> mdz: I'll test it locally too, to make sure I get it right the first time.
[05:14] <infinity> mdz: The upload will be in ~10-12 hours, no need to SMS you.  (I need to sleep, and doko's sitting on another upgrade fix too)
[05:15] <infinity> mdz: Happy drinking.
[05:17] <zakame> ~[6~[6~/wind 2
[05:17] <jordi> Riddell: fantastic
[05:18] <sladen> mdz: I've sent a fix to 'acpid' to the queue to stop it shutting down after displaying the logout dialogue in GNOME
[05:21] <mvo> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/gnome-app-install_0.1.32.debdiff (is big because of the desktop file updates)
[05:28] <_ion> Bug #46935
[05:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46935 in linux-meta "System hangs when using ltserial, ltmodem, /dev/ttyLTM0" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46935
[05:32] <Riddell> jordi: are there any long term plans to sync translations between rosetta and upstreams?
[05:32] <tsdgeos> Riddell: jordi is gone
[05:32] <tsdgeos> or he lied me :D
[05:32] <mdke> Riddell: if the upstream uses rosetta, then the answer is yes
[05:32] <mdke> Riddell: if you're talking about Ubuntu translations in rosetta, the answer is no, as far as I know.
[05:32] <mdke> (translators need to forward their stuff)
[05:33] <jordi> ok I will be killed by the gf
[05:33] <jordi> Riddell: there's a midterm plan to import KDE and GNOME SVN and only the KDE translators and GNOME translators members will be able to translate
[05:33] <jordi> that, and translation multicasting will ease the problem
[05:33] <jordi> but I *really* need to disappear now
[05:34] <mdke> have fun jordi 
[05:34] <Riddell> thanks jordi 
[05:38] <green-mouse> Hi, what is ubuntu politics about including kernel paches in to "official" kernel image... I have laptop with centario proccesor, and cpufreq dont`t work without some paches... this is possible to include this pach to official kernel?
[05:39] <infinity> green-mouse: We have plenty of patches for centrino cpufreq stuff.  Which cpu specifically doesn't work with out kernel?
[05:41] <green-mouse> infinity, model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.73GHz
[05:41] <green-mouse> infinity, i use linux-phc-0.2.4 patch...
[05:42] <infinity> green-mouse: Have you actually tried our kernel (apt-get install linux-686) in dapper, with the powernowd also in dapper?  It should work fine.
[05:42] <green-mouse> infinity, i use dapper
[05:43] <green-mouse> infinity, i have linux-686 package installed...
[05:43] <carlos> Riddell: About the German translators... it was due the missing translations we got becuase the problem with kde-i18n-de package
[05:43] <carlos> Riddell: Ubuntu translators already asked me to revert the modifications and move them back to KDE ones
[05:44] <carlos> Riddell: but I hadn't time to do that yet
[05:44] <green-mouse> infinity, Linux green-mouse-laptop 2.6.15-23-686 #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue May 23 14:03:07 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux 
[05:45] <green-mouse> infinity, and cpufreq works only after patch applying...
[05:45] <mjg59> green-mouse: What patch?
[05:45] <mvo_> pitti has left the building?
[05:46] <green-mouse> mjg59, linux-phc-0.2.4 patch...
[05:46] <infinity> green-mouse: Okay, PHC isn't the same thing as the kernel's generic cpufreq interface (thoug it hooks into it, it looks like)
[05:46] <mjg59> green-mouse: Where can we find that?
[05:46] <infinity> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=161063
[05:46] <mjg59> And how are you trying to control the cpu frequency?
[05:46] <infinity> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Undervolt_a_Pentium_M_CPU
[05:46] <infinity> mjg59: ^^^^
[05:46] <mjg59> Oh. So crack.
[05:46] <green-mouse> mjg59, http://linux-phc.sourceforge.net/
[05:46] <infinity> Yeah, it's completely orthogonal to the cpufreq support we ship that SHOULD work on his CPU.
[05:46] <mjg59> That's not cpufreq
[05:47] <sladen> green-mouse: do you have busted ACPI on your machine?
[05:47] <green-mouse> sladen, yes
[05:47] <infinity> green-mouse: That's a tweaker's interface for {under,over}volting and {under,over}clocking, not the same as plain old cpufreq.
[05:47] <Robot101> mjg59: not at the fest'o'beer?
[05:47] <sladen> green-mouse: the only reason for overriding a power/voltage scaling table is if the table supplied by the ACPI BIOS is incorrect
[05:48] <sladen> green-mouse: right, so the actual problem is another one.
[05:48] <sladen> green-mouse: in which case, $lots of other stuff probably doesn't work on your machine either
[05:48] <green-mouse> infinity, ok... maybe cpufreq broken in ubuntu kernel....
[05:48] <green-mouse> i appyd this path on vanilla kernel...
[05:49] <ogra> green-mouse, sladen just explained it to you ... it has nothing at all to do with cpufreq
[05:50] <sladen> green-mouse: so, what you're doing is adding an override for your CPU (with incorrect voltages, but which are close-enough that they might work)
[05:50] <green-mouse> ok... in ubuntu kernel: modprobe speedstep-centrino
[05:50] <green-mouse> FATAL: Error inserting speedstep_centrino (/lib/modules/2.6.15-23-686/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/speedstep-centrino.ko): Invalid module format
[05:50] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ lsmod | grep speedstep
[05:50] <infinity> speedstep_centrino      8752  1
[05:50] <infinity> freq_table              4928  2 speedstep_centrino,cpufreq_stats
[05:50] <infinity> processor              26344  2 speedstep_centrino,thermal
[05:50] <sladen> green-mouse: yes.  Dude, it gets the voltage/scaling pairs from ACPI.  Your ACPI is busted.  There are no voltage/scaling pairs to use, so it bombs.
[05:50] <infinity> Works here (obviously)
[05:51] <infinity> "Invalid module format" is a pretty iffy way to fail, though.
[05:51] <sladen> green-mouse: please can you file a bug against 'acpi-support' and we'll debug a solution for you there
[05:51] <ogra> infinity, <green-mouse> i appyd this path on vanilla kernel...
[05:51] <ogra> green-mouse, are you currently running that patched kernel ? 
[05:51] <sladen> infinity: valid point... that *is* an interesting error message
[05:52] <green-mouse> ogra, not
[05:52] <green-mouse> ogra, now this is ubuntu kernel
[05:52] <infinity> sladen / mjg59 : Do we have a HOWTO anywhere for hacking /etc/mkinitramfs/DSDT.aml for people with ACPI issues?
[05:52] <infinity> That's likely what this dude needs.
[05:53] <sladen> infinity: I don't think so.  Could really do with one, rather than sending people off to the Gentoo documentation
[05:53] <infinity> I didn't say the HOWTO had to be OURS.  Just any HOWTO will do. :)
[05:53] <infinity> (Though our own would be nice)
[05:54] <sladen> infinity: which (while fixing it admittedly) also included a respray, aerofoils, go faster strips and alloy hub caps
[05:55] <green-mouse> ok, from there we start? Have centario CPU and speedstep not work for me.... what infomation you need to debug this problem?
[05:55] <sladen> infinity: the acpi.sf.net one;  but most of that still encourages people to patch their kernel, concat onto initrd.gz ... rather than copying it into /etc/mkinitramfs/
[05:56] <sladen> green-mouse: launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+filebug
[05:56] <sladen> green-mouse: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+filebug
[05:56] <green-mouse> sladen, ok
[05:56] <infinity> sladen: Yeah, some of our own user-contributed documentation is that bad too. :/  Have you seen the people who will post "I only had to add this [block of 30 options]  to xorg.conf to make my card work!" when all they really needed was one of those changes?
[05:56] <green-mouse> sladen, thenks\
[05:56] <mjg59> Uh?
[05:56] <mjg59> Invalid module format is unlikely to be it bombing out
[05:56] <HiddenWolf> infinity: or worse, compiling stuff when there are packages in the people. repositories
[05:56] <mjg59> What does dmesg say?
[05:57] <mjg59> sladen: Christ no. If there's a bug here, it's in the kernel, not acpi-support
[05:57] <ogra> Riddell, do you list related projects on kubuntu.org like we do in edubuntu.org ? (and especially do you list xubuntu there ?)
[05:57] <infinity> Is anyone else runinng a -386 kernel (I'm booted to -686 right now) who can confirm that that module loads?
[05:58] <mjg59> green-mouse: After trying modprobe speedstep-centrino, could you please provide the output of the dmesg command?
[05:58] <mjg59> Put it on pastebin rather than pasting it here
[05:58] <sladen> mjg59: yes, it needs a generic 'powermanagement' but to assign things to before they get debugged
[05:58] <ogra> infinity, sorry running -386 on amd64 here 
[05:58] <green-mouse> mjg59, ok i post this in my bugreport...
[05:58] <mjg59> sladen: If a kernel driver doesn't work, it's a kernel bug
[05:59] <mjg59> green-mouse: Ok, give me the bug number once you've got it
[05:59] <green-mouse> mjg59, ok
[06:00] <infinity> ogra: modprobe that module, then.
[06:00] <infinity> ogra: Doesn't need to DO anything, just want to see if it loads without "invalid module format", which is... Odd.
[06:01] <ogra> ok
[06:01] <ogra> infinity, a nice "no such device" here
[06:01] <ogra> as it should be
[06:02] <infinity> ogra: Okay, good.
[06:03] <darius_> I just installed Dapper RC1 fresh.  Then tried to install ntp-server but the /etc/init.d/ntp-server script is looking for an 'ntp' user that was never created on the system.  Can anyone tell me if this behavious is consistent on another system?
[06:05] <infinity> darius_: Oh, crap.  I have a bug report about that.
[06:05] <infinity> darius_: try "export LANG=C ; apt-get install ntp-server"
[06:06] <darius_> infinity: actually, it came up because I was trying to have it regularly check an ntp server (via the Time Setting gui interface) which trigger an install, but the install fails
[06:07] <darius_> infinity: that didn't resolve it
[06:07] <infinity> darius_: Oh, you'll have to purge it first.
[06:07] <darius_> I just did an apt-get install ntp-simple from the command line and it fixed it on one machine
[06:07] <infinity> "apt-get --purge remove ntp-server"
[06:07] <infinity> Then "LANG=C apt-get install ntp-server"
[06:08] <darius_> inifity: nope, I still got the error using that method
[06:09] <infinity> Hrm.
[06:09] <darius_> apt-get install ntp-simple did create the ntp user
[06:09] <darius_> which resolves my problem .. but I think that leaves a problem for people trying to directly install ntp-server
[06:09] <infinity> Well, yeah, but ntp-server depends on ntp-simple.
[06:11] <infinity> Oh, feh.  I see the problem.
[06:11] <darius_> actually, seems it will be a problem for everyone using the GUI
[06:11] <infinity> No, it's a problem for everyone, period.  And has nothing to do with LANG, that was a red herring in a confused bug.
[06:11] <infinity> Grr.
[06:12] <Kamion> Seveas: unfortunately "RuntimeError: Install failed with exit code 1" requires more information; the actual trace is buried in syslog
[06:12] <infinity> darius_: The problem is simple that ntp-server's postinst tries to restart, when it shouldn't (because it doesn't creat the user, nor contain the daemon, ntp-simple does)
[06:13] <Seveas> Kamion, ah ok
[06:13] <Seveas> Sorry again, will ask reporters for logs in the future
[06:14] <Seveas> do you want me to undo my actions?
[06:14] <Kamion> (so I added text to the crash dialog to ask people to attach syslog and partman, but about 50% of people seem to be ignoring that)
[06:14] <Kamion> Seveas: yes please, otherwise I'll do it later
[06:14] <Seveas> I'm on it
[06:15] <Kamion> cheers
[06:15] <darius_> I love being able to report an issue and *bham* someone is fixing it.  This is crazy.  I think Ubuntu will give Windows significant trouble in the near future
[06:15] <bgertzfield> darius_: well come. :)
[06:15] <Kamion> I honestly don't mind setting duplicate markings myself anyway - it helps me get an impression of which issues are most urgent
[06:17] <darius_> I only wish hardware manufacturers were more support .. but I imagine it's coming.  I recently saw a request for quote go to a vendor and the requestor demanded that only hardware with linux open source drivers be provided
[06:19] <mdz> mvo: +                    if it.Component != "" and it.Component == "universe": ?
[06:20] <ogra> does that only pull from it.a.u.c then ? 
[06:21] <bgertzfield> darius_: coming from both the open-source and corporate worlds, hardware manufacturers will support software only when there's a lot of money to be made
[06:21] <bgertzfield> or they have an ulterior motive (spreading goodwill among a great community, like the linux folks)
[06:23] <darius_> bgertzfield: yeah, but if there's at least one manufacturer that has good support and competitive products then the rest start losing business.  This was a purchase for $50k, you can bet the distributor was willing to hunt for the right hardware
[06:24] <bgertzfield> sure. it takes a long, long time for manufacturers to realize why they're losing business tho
[06:24] <darius_> bgertzfield: plus, it would be nice if manufacturers created and released drivers but the biggest problem is manufacturers just not opening up their interface so that someone else could create drivers
[06:25] <bgertzfield> no, it's more that they never wrote down the interface in the first place ;) trust me
[06:25] <darius_> ah :)
[06:25] <bgertzfield> usually the drivers are cobbled together at the last minute
[06:25] <infinity> mdz: Aren't you supposed to be out buying drinks?
[06:25] <ogra> yeah
[06:25] <bgertzfield> yeah! celebration time
[06:26] <darius_> half the ubuntu laptop install I make don't work out-of-the-box for the wireless networking.  This is so grueling.
[06:27] <sladen> darius_: which wireless cards?
[06:27] <darius_> broadcom, and some ipw2200 or whatever
[06:27] <Riddell> ogra: not at the moment
[06:27] <infinity> mdz: Since you don't appear to actually be out at all, can you approve this one for me? http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/ntp.debdiff
[06:27] <darius_> many Dell latops, some HP - though I think HP is getting better
[06:27] <ogra> Riddell, you mean you dont list any at the moment or you dont list xubuntu at the moment ?
[06:27] <mdz> infinity: I have been out and back
[06:27] <Riddell> ogra: just Ubuntu is listed
[06:28] <ogra> ah, k
[06:28] <infinity> mdz: darius hilighted it above, and looking at it, I'm not sure how this has ever worked for anyone.  Since we expose "apt-get install ntp-server" in the Time and Date gui, it seems pretty RC to me.
[06:29] <infinity> mdz: Note that for minimum impact, I just copied the ntp-simple postinst wholesale (except for the runinng of the init script, since dh_installinit gives ntp-server that for free)
[06:29] <darius_> I don't know if I've ever been able to install a Dell laptop w/ wireless support out of the box.  Really makes me hate their product :)
[06:29] <mdz> infinity: was about to ask if you did that
[06:29] <mdz> infinity: if so, fine
[06:30] <infinity> mdz: Kay, cool.  Uploading.
[06:30] <darius_> I'm sure Dell will come around eventually .. in 10 years - they finally started using AMD afterall :)
[06:33] <darius_> Does anyone know if the /sys/module/processor/parameters/max_cstate misreporting of CPU load issue will be fixed before release?
[06:33] <Kamion> Seveas: also, /var/log/partman, not /var/log/installer/partman
[06:35] <darius_> The bug report was finally confirmed but we're at RC already.  It seems to affect a wide range of laptops (that worked with 5.10)
[06:36] <sladen> darius_: what bug number?
[06:36] <darius_> 30557
[06:37] <darius_> I don't really understand what it is but it hit by nc6230 after upgrading to Dapper
[06:38] <green-mouse> mjg59, Bug #46952....
[06:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46952 in acpi-support "cpufreq don`t work on centrino CPU in  "dapper" (kernel: linux-image-2.6.15-23-686)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46952
[06:38] <glatzor> hi Riddell. do you remember the missing translations issue for kde some time ago?
[06:38] <infinity> darius_: ntp bug confirmed, fixed, tested locally, and uploaded.  Thanks for the reminder. :/
[06:38] <glatzor> Riddell: there seems to be the same issue for koffice
[06:39] <darius_> infinity: awesome.  Thank you
[06:42] <sladen> mjg59: bug #30557 seems to be caused by a patch for ACPI C-states
[06:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30557 in linux-source-2.6.15 "cpu idle time in /proc/stat wrong" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30557
[06:44] <hunt0r> hi all
[06:45] <hunt0r> how can I prevent the bootstrap system from the live cd to load module?
[06:46] <sladen> hunt0r: what module?
[06:47] <hunt0r> cs
[06:48] <hunt0r> ok fcpcmcia_cs.ko ok something like this
[06:49] <hunt0r> wehen I try to boot it just says cs: io port probe and dies
[07:01] <Riddell> glatzor: carlospc was saying he'll fix it
[07:04] <glatzor> Riddell: yes for kde. but I noticed that this issue also applies to koffice
[07:04] <glatzor> I did not notice...
[07:05] <glatzor> Riddell: the leader of the German koffice translation team contacted me on IRC some minutes ago
[07:06] <glatzor> Riddell: carlospc: applying the script of carlospc also to koffice would require a fresh upload of koffice?
[07:06] <glatzor> Riddell: are there any string changes by you in the koffice package?
[07:07] <sladen> hunt0r: how are you going to blacklist it if you don't know what module it is?
[07:07] <glatzor> otherwise I would upload the current German translations of the kde team, since they are at 100%
[07:07] <Riddell> glatzor: there's no kubuntu string changes in koffice
[07:12] <glatzor> Riddell: to overwrite the Rosetta translation I have to do a "user upload", right?
[07:14] <hunt0r> sladen: well I thought it the name is cs.ko becouse it says cs: blabla but maybe it has a slightly different name
[07:15] <Riddell> glatzor: I don't know I'm afraid, but that sounds like it would do it
[07:15] <glatzor> Riddell: Ok. 32 po files :/
[07:21] <infinity> sfllaw: When you're around, can you check bug #46935?
[07:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46935 in wvdial "System hangs when using ltserial, ltmodem, /dev/ttyLTM0" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46935
[07:22] <ogra> infinity, he was on it  yesterday already, if i didnt read wrong here
[07:22] <infinity> ogra: Ahh, I see nothing from him in the bug log (and he wasn't subscribed until I added him), so I just wanted insurance. :)
[07:23] <ogra> i only saw him poking on ltserial and ltmodem, probably it was a dup or something
[07:23] <infinity> Could well be.
[07:24] <infinity> Oh, yes.  Looking closely, there are several dupes of this one.
[07:25] <HiddenWolf> has dinner, I hope. :)
[07:26] <ogra> that too :)
[07:33] <infinity> sfllaw: Nevermind, I see that you're all over a dupe of the same bug.
[07:41] <glatzor> Riddell: did you need to reupload kde to solve the issue last time?
[07:41] <Riddell> glatzor: I needed to upload the kde-i8n-de package, for some reason it was out of date
[07:44] <dholbach> mdz, Kamion: ok to upload new example-content? fixes bug 46713 (ubuntu Sax.ogg ends abruptly, heno has a new version of it)
[07:46] <Kamion> dholbach: yes
[07:46] <dholbach> mdz, Kamion: sorry, the bug I meant is bug 46842
[07:46] <dholbach> Kamion: merci beaucoup
[07:46] <Kamion> de rien
[07:46] <dholbach> LP is the problem, not Ubugtu.
[07:47] <ogra> ah. still ?
[07:47] <ogra> dholbach, nice to see youre not injured
[07:47] <dholbach> ogra: injured?
[07:48] <ogra> you dont watch/read the news ?
[07:48] <dholbach> ogra: you mean because of that news story about that Berlin Amok run?
[07:48] <ogra> yep
[07:48] <dholbach> Oh man
[07:48] <ogra> yep :/
[07:48] <HiddenWolf> Heh, I'd run amok too if some loon started stabbing people at random.
[07:49] <dholbach> Of course I'm not injured - as sad as the story is: Berlin is not a place where you have to fight for survival every day - as much as the media is working on that image
[07:49] <dholbach> spiegel ahead of all of them
[07:50] <ogra> heh, yes, i know
[07:50] <dholbach> but oh well, I better stop complaining
[08:41] <infinity> dholbach: BTW, you uploaded kooldock, which was FTBFS on all arches, due to an empty .po file.
[08:41] <dholbach> infinity: i'll have alook, might be one of the AptGetOrg thingies, which built when I tested it (7-8 weeks ago)
[08:42] <infinity> dholbach: But I'm betting you didn't test with pkgstriptranslations installed and in nazi mode. :)
[08:42] <dholbach> infinity: no, not really :)
[09:09] <glatzor> Riddell: it seems to be that the koffice 1.4 po files are used in rosetta
[09:10] <glatzor> the number of strings (translated and untranslated) in the 1.5 po file and the rosetta po file differs by 300
[09:10] <glatzor> for the kexi template only
[09:28] <mroth> hmm.. should the new sun-java-jre in multiverse update /etc/alternatives/java to point to the sun version instead of gij?  doesnt seem to be doing so currently
[11:11] <zyga> hello
[11:12] <pygi> hey zyga 
[11:13] <glick> hmm dapper for some reason i no longer automounts my external firewire drive when i plug it in
[11:15] <ssam> glick, mine mount ok, anything interesting in dmesg
[11:17] <glick> hey is there a reason why dapper now no longer auto mounts my firewire drive?
[11:17] <glick> it did it once
[11:45] <Induane> hey all is anyone here expirenced with zenity? it seems no one in the main ubuntu and ubuntu+1 channels is.
[11:45] <Induane> thus I come seeking the genius of this channel
[11:47] <glick> yeah it seems like pmount is screwy in dapper rc1
[11:48] <mdke> glick: searching for and then filing a bug might be in order
[11:49] <glick> mdke: where do i do that?
[11:49] <mdke> glick: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[11:54] <glick> mdke: when registering should i allow people to see my email or will i be spammed to kingdom come if i do that?
[11:55] <mdke> glick: it is safe to allow it, I think
[11:55] <glick> mdke: only registered people will be able to see it right?
[11:56] <mdke> glick: i believe so. #launchpad can tell you more
[12:02] <glick> ok sweet i submitted it
[12:03] <glick> damn guess ill have to wait a while to access my firewire drive data :(