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| Bilange | hey guys, are you responsible for the "GreatFeaturesofUbuntu" wiki page by any chance? | 12:31 |
|---|---|---|
| mdke | Bilange: yes, we wrote it, although the flash tour has since been put on hold for this release | 12:31 |
| Bilange | okay, in other words, I guess its too late to send suggestions about this, right? | 12:32 |
| mdke | Bilange: if you send suggestions, they will get taken into account if it gets produced for edgy | 12:32 |
| Bilange | okay :) so, where can I send them? | 12:33 |
| mdke | Bilange: bottom of the page? | 12:33 |
| Bilange | ah, fine. I thought that if there was no "discussion" section or a /talk subpage, well... discussions would be sent elsewhere | 12:34 |
| mdke | Bilange: you can add either :) a discussion section sounds good | 12:34 |
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| ompaul | is there a category documentation for IRC ? | 12:59 |
| mdke | ompaul: what do you mean? | 12:59 |
| ompaul | is there an IRC directory | 12:59 |
| ompaul | I have this kind of thing and want to start a serious cull of duplication https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCResourcePage | 01:00 |
| mdke | ompaul: do you mean "is there a category irc"? | 01:02 |
| ompaul | mdke, I suppose I do | 01:02 |
| mdke | doesn't seem to be | 01:02 |
| mdke | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryCategory | 01:03 |
| ompaul | thanks | 01:03 |
| ompaul | gotcha | 01:04 |
| ompaul | I'll come back next year :) | 01:04 |
| mdke | a CategoryIRC might not be a bad idea actually | 01:05 |
| ompaul | yeap, I had misunderstood what Category Documentation was, so I have to change the pages off that to cleanup | 01:06 |
| mdke | yeah, don't add CategoryDocumentation to something that isn't documentation | 01:08 |
| mdke | otherwise it will get moved to the new wiki :) | 01:08 |
| ompaul | it is documentation but it needs a "whole lotta love" | 01:11 |
| mdke | hang on ompaul | 01:12 |
| mdke | ompaul: what page are you referring to? | 01:12 |
| ompaul | mdke, this and anything that it links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCResourcePage | 01:13 |
| mdke | ompaul: right. Just to be clear, the move of wiki documentation is _ALL_ documentation, regardless of quality. So the roughest page is going, and the best. When deciding what to tag with CategoryDocumentation, the question is: is this a help document, or is it a community document? If the former, please tag it with CategoryDocumentation | 01:15 |
| ompaul | and we can have more than one category | 01:16 |
| ompaul | sorry that is a question, too tired to rephase it | 01:16 |
| mdke | ompaul: yes | 01:16 |
| mdke | I'm not sure which of the two things that page is | 01:16 |
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| ompaul | what it wants to be is a definitive list of things you should look at if you want to know *all* about irc | 01:17 |
| mdke | yeah, which is partly a community thing | 01:17 |
| ompaul | more like an informed index of the resources you can read about, then the others should stop doing two jobs and it should get nice and neat | 01:18 |
| mdke | so, you think it should be on the help wiki or the community wiki? | 01:19 |
| ompaul | it is help, as I see it, you usually only want irc if you want to access the irc community for help, direction or participation | 01:20 |
| mdke | ok, fine by me. Tag it up, and it'll get moved | 01:20 |
| ompaul | thanks | 01:21 |
| Burgundavia | DBO, are you Jason Smith? | 01:30 |
| mdke | yeah, he is | 01:30 |
| DBO | only slightly | 01:30 |
| DBO | yes I know, i been doing lots of editing | 01:30 |
| DBO | trying to get KDE working right (KDE is hard to get working with Xgl) | 01:30 |
| Burgundavia | DBO, on telling people to install, plesae don't use apt-get, simply tell people which packages to install | 01:31 |
| DBO | Burgundavia, oh that was you who changed that? | 01:31 |
| DBO | hehehe, ok... | 01:31 |
| Burgundavia | yep | 01:31 |
| DBO | I was like "who removed my beautiful cut and paste commands?" | 01:31 |
| Burgundavia | I also need to clean up the whole sources.list stuff, but I will do that now | 01:31 |
| DBO | hmmm? | 01:32 |
| DBO | ok, just dont break anything | 01:33 |
| DBO | it works with GNOME and Im trying to get it working with KDE | 01:33 |
| Burgundavia | no, I won't | 01:33 |
| Burgundavia | merely rewording what you already have there | 01:33 |
| DBO | Burgundavia, on thats perfectly ok | 01:34 |
| Burgundavia | bugger, ompaul left | 01:34 |
| DBO | why cant I use apt-get btw? | 01:34 |
| Burgundavia | because they can use other ways | 01:34 |
| Burgundavia | aptitiude, synaptic, etc. | 01:35 |
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| DBO | Burgundavia, yes... but cut and paste... | 01:40 |
| Burgundavia | DBO, cut and paste is lovely but you are outvoted :) | 01:41 |
| mdke | haha | 01:41 |
| DBO | argh, ok, I am half way through birddogging this KDE thing and I gotta run | 01:41 |
| DBO | this is crap | 01:41 |
| Burgundavia | yes, KDE is crap :) | 01:42 |
| DBO | argh, I dont think his GLX is loading... and this is not good | 01:43 |
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| === philipacamaniac pings mdke | ||
| === philipacamaniac pings Burgundavia instead | ||
| philipacamaniac | hmm | 04:04 |
| mdke | philipacamaniac: mm? | 04:05 |
| philipacamaniac | I'm looking for more info on the wiki CategoryDocumentation move to help.ubuntu.com | 04:05 |
| mdke | philipacamaniac: sure. What's on your mind? | 04:06 |
| philipacamaniac | mdke: once everything is moved over, will there be mechanisms for sorting articles by Ubuntu version? | 04:06 |
| mdke | philipacamaniac: everything will basically be the same as it is now. We can talk about that, but we wanted to take things one step at a time | 04:07 |
| philipacamaniac | mdke: okay, talking about it, there are far too many "Hoary" or "Breezy" specific articles, and others provide methods for several versions | 04:08 |
| mdke | i agree, we need to sort that out | 04:08 |
| mdke | we can think about it after the move | 04:09 |
| philipacamaniac | mdke: agreed, I can wait :) , but there is one more - translations | 04:10 |
| mdke | shoot | 04:10 |
| philipacamaniac | heh | 04:10 |
| mdke | i mean, go ahead | 04:10 |
| philipacamaniac | oh | 04:10 |
| philipacamaniac | heh | 04:10 |
| philipacamaniac | moin doesn't seem to have many translation-oriented features. I see that you can change the default language in preferences. but where is the process for translating articles? | 04:11 |
| mdke | you take an article, translate it, and paste it in another page | 04:12 |
| mdke | we generally prefer translation to go on on a different wiki | 04:12 |
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| mdke | language specific wikis are better | 04:12 |
| philipacamaniac | mdke: agreed, but do you only do English documentation at help.ubuntu.com? | 04:12 |
| mdke | philipacamaniac: on the wiki, it is mostly English, but some people put other languages there, we can't stop them | 04:13 |
| mdke | as for the static pages, for 6.06 we are making translations available too, but languages which have their own sites should host their own, if possible | 04:14 |
| mdke | it's just easier for users to find things. If you're french, you go to ubuntu-fr.org, etc | 04:14 |
| mdke | i have to sleep | 04:16 |
| mdke | cya later | 04:16 |
| philipacamaniac | adios | 04:16 |
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| crimsun | I wonder if it's possible to merge/mark duplicate threads on the forum | 06:14 |
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| LaserJock | crimsun: delete and lock too? ;-) | 06:43 |
| crimsun | LaserJock: just wondering (unlikely), since I'm about to venture into the forums and triage sound-related bugs | 06:44 |
| ghee22 | crimsun: on google groups or digg.com whenever create a topic, it searches for related topics already in existance based on key words.. perhaps this prevent dupes? | 06:45 |
| crimsun | ghee22: no, I'm looking more for functionality like in Debian's BTS or Malone where we can merge duplicate reports | 06:46 |
| crimsun | probably a forum admin's job, though | 06:46 |
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| Madpilot | hi all | 07:08 |
| Burgundavia | hey Madpilot | 07:10 |
| Madpilot | hi Burgundavia | 07:10 |
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| Burgundavia | hmm, laying out text in Inkscape sucks | 08:49 |
| Burgundavia | too bad scribus has a terrible UI | 08:49 |
| Madpilot | for laying out text, it's got a better UI than Inkscape, evidently ;) | 08:50 |
| Burgundavia | yes, scribus needs a gtk update | 08:50 |
| Madpilot | um, it's a KDE app... and the scribus devs have been known to get irritated at "Scribus needs a GTK port" trolls on the scribus ML | 08:51 |
| Burgundavia | actually, it is a QT app, not a KDE one | 08:52 |
| Burgundavia | just planning out a "you just Ubuntu" page | 08:52 |
| Madpilot | a what? | 08:52 |
| Burgundavia | a help page with common questions | 08:53 |
| Burgundavia | designed to be handed out for people who have just received an Ubuntu computer | 08:53 |
| Madpilot | nifty. | 08:53 |
| LaserJock | great, that's just what we need, another FAQ help page ;-) | 08:54 |
| Burgundavia | this is designed for print | 08:54 |
| Burgundavia | a very different beast | 08:54 |
| Madpilot | we need more dead-tree products | 08:54 |
| Burgundavia | and no, it is designed to cover the very basics | 08:55 |
| Madpilot | "That is not a cup holder" | 08:55 |
| LaserJock | kinda like ESA, but maybe more Q&A? | 08:55 |
| Burgundavia | currently I only have four topics on it: windows/ubuntu app names, how to install, start menu/app menu and audio video issues | 08:55 |
| Burgundavia | then a "how do I get more help" | 08:55 |
| Burgundavia | that seem right for the biggest first four issues? | 08:55 |
| Madpilot | you could do pages of Windows->Ubuntu equivilent apps, I'd think | 08:56 |
| Burgundavia | yep, this is just 5 or 6 big ones | 08:56 |
| Burgundavia | outlook, IE, MS office | 08:57 |
| Madpilot | gaim? | 08:57 |
| === dsas wonders just how many people actually use outlook, over say, hotmail, yahoo and gmail. | ||
| Burgundavia | quite a few | 08:58 |
| Madpilot | Outlook Express is probably the most common | 08:58 |
| LaserJock | I use thunderbird right now but I used to use Outlook Express and most of my family (linux illiterate) do too | 08:59 |
| Madpilot | Virusinstall Express ;) | 08:59 |
| LaserJock | I thought that was IE | 09:00 |
| dsas | I know of two people who use a real mail client (got them both to use thunderbird), I need to know more geeks. | 09:00 |
| Burgundavia | here is the breakdown, afaik | 09:01 |
| Burgundavia | students: hotmail | 09:01 |
| Burgundavia | old people: outlook | 09:01 |
| Madpilot | geeks: gmail | 09:01 |
| Burgundavia | yep, but I am exluding them, because they are a known quantity | 09:02 |
| LaserJock | bah, real geeks have their own mail server and use mutt ;-) | 09:02 |
| === LaserJock is not a geek apparently, although he does use mutt sometimes | ||
| dsas | Maybe my problem is not knowing old people then ;), that and ISPs provide webmail which satisfies the two email using old people I know. | 09:03 |
| === robitaille uses both gmail and mutt.... I guess I'm really a geek... | ||
| Madpilot | robitaille, bonus geek points if you manage to combine the two somehow ;) | 09:06 |
| LaserJock | I do that too | 09:07 |
| LaserJock | gmail is where my @ubuntu.com goes and all the MLs get procmail+mutt/thunderbird | 09:07 |
| robitaille | Madpilot: it's easy to do via pop. But I prefer the gmail web interface for my home emails since I move between various computers. But at work I use mutt for my work emails | 09:08 |
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| jbailey | Hi! A couple quick thoughts: | 02:58 |
| jbailey | * help.ubuntu.com doesn't seem to have a search option. I wonder if it's worth putting a link to google at least or something? | 02:58 |
| jbailey | * Part of the job of the support folks that we've hired is to help write knowledgebase articles based on actual support cases that we get. | 02:59 |
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| jbailey | For this, I'm not sure the best way to integrate this into existing documentation efforts. Right now they've posted them to the wiki, but I'd like to actually have a formal knowledgebaseish thing. | 03:00 |
| jbailey | I wrote a spec a while ago for how this could look in launchpad. | 03:00 |
| jsgotangco | hi guys | 03:00 |
| jbailey | Heya Jerome. | 03:01 |
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| jsgotangco | did yelp just die? | 04:33 |
| dsas_ | jsgotangco: I don't have any toc | 04:34 |
| jsgotangco | right | 04:34 |
| dsas_ | hmm, I just upgraded scrollkeeper and ubuntu-docs I think. | 04:35 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 04:35 |
| dsas_ | unterminated entity error with /usr/share/yelp/info.xml according to stderr can't see what it is though | 04:38 |
| jbailey | For those types of errors, I usually open it with firefox. | 04:40 |
| dsas_ | actually line 32 looks odd, but I have no idea. | 04:40 |
| jbailey | It tends to put a helpful red mark at the broken spot. | 04:40 |
| dsas_ | hmm, firefox has no complaints. | 04:40 |
| jsgotangco | it is probably the scrollkeeper db not being updated durign the actual update | 04:56 |
| jsgotangco | sometimes it happens | 04:56 |
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| mhz | hi doc people | 07:08 |
| mdke | jbailey: wiki sounds like a good start. Is everything tagged with CategoryDocumentation? | 07:08 |
| jbailey | mdke: Pretty unlikely so far. | 07:09 |
| jbailey | mdke: I'll ask them about it later. | 07:09 |
| mhz | I am starting to translate some Edubuntu pages from wiki. highvoltage has already mentioned DocTeam will have another Moin instance for doc only. Good idea, considering the current number of wiki pages. | 07:09 |
| mdke | jbailey: when the documentation moves wikis, only stuff tagged with CategoryDocumentation gets moved | 07:09 |
| jbailey | Ah, okay. | 07:09 |
| jbailey | So the question for me is how to work with the knowledgebase and the docteam. | 07:10 |
| jbailey | I'd ideally like all the knowledgebase articles to conform to a style, which means an editor. | 07:10 |
| mhz | So, I was wondering, should I keep my translations under my wiki homepage in the mean time? Also, is there a due date for such new instance? | 07:10 |
| jbailey | I also don't know how likely community contributors are to be. | 07:10 |
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| mdke | jbailey: a human editor you mean? | 07:10 |
| jbailey | mdke: Yeah. | 07:10 |
| mdke | right, sounds cool | 07:10 |
| mdke | jbailey: and you're not completely happy with using the wiki? | 07:11 |
| jbailey | mdke: wikis make it very hard to enforce approval through an editor. | 07:11 |
| mhz | jbailey: moin 1.5.x includes a wysiwyg editor | 07:11 |
| jbailey | I also have some dreams about making annotations specific to releases in case things change over time. | 07:11 |
| === mhz is not insisting in upgrading to 1.5...sorry.../me slaps himself | ||
| mdke | mhz: he's not talking about that sort of editor | 07:12 |
| jbailey | And then the dream of making the core knowledge available to derivatives or other distributions, and having distro-specific stuff be all annotations. | 07:12 |
| mdke | jbailey: so the new wiki will have access control, that can enforce approval | 07:12 |
| jbailey | mdke: That would solve my immediate concern. | 07:12 |
| mdke | jbailey: just like the website you can have pages which are invisible except to the relevant group | 07:12 |
| mdke | then when it's approved, you can make it visible | 07:12 |
| jbailey | Especially if I could say, make https://docs.ubuntu.com/knowledgebase/FOO all approve-on-write. | 07:12 |
| mdke | jbailey: is this not something that would integrate well with existing wiki documentation? you'd want a separate section? | 07:13 |
| mhz | mdke: so, keep translated pages under my wiki homepage in wiki.edubuntu.org, in tecnocimiento.cl, or in ubuntu-cl.org wiki? | 07:14 |
| jbailey | I don't know that it would integrate well or not. | 07:14 |
| mdke | mhz: translations generally work better on a specific language website, so I'd suggest ubuntu-cl | 07:14 |
| jbailey | When I think of a knowledgebase, I think of a particular format of: 1) Reduced Question. 2) Recipe answer. | 07:14 |
| jbailey | And so having the style particularily reflect that. | 07:14 |
| mdke | i think it can integrate | 07:15 |
| jbailey | The rest of our documentation doesn't seem to be targetted at that, but I'm not saying no to anything here. =) | 07:15 |
| mdke | i like the idea of everything being structured by subject matter, obviously style can vary | 07:15 |
| jbailey | If you're familiar with the old faq-o-matic systems, it's the type of thing I'm thinking of. | 07:15 |
| jbailey | So eventually, we'd need categories, etc. | 07:16 |
| mdke | I'm not familiar with those systems | 07:16 |
| jbailey | It was wiki style, where people could post questions which would get classified. | 07:16 |
| jbailey | The answers were edittable. | 07:16 |
| jbailey | It's editting intensive, though. | 07:16 |
| jbailey | And they never tended to get high quality like Novell's Technical Information Documents, or Microsoft's Technet. | 07:17 |
| mdke | what always concerns me is that the documentation retains an obviously accessible structure, I have an allergy to a documentation resource which is structured by style rather than subject matter. So when I see a site which has "Howtos", "knowledgebase", and "FAQs", I know that I won't know where to start looking | 07:17 |
| mdke | so I always try and push for integrating different styles of documentation | 07:18 |
| jbailey | Yeah. | 07:19 |
| mdke | jbailey: have you got some examples already we can look at? | 07:19 |
| jbailey | I haven't thought this through enough beyond the fact that technet and Novell's TIDs are really useful. | 07:19 |
| jbailey | Of Ubuntu ones? No. I know Kurt's written a couple, but I haven't looked at them. | 07:19 |
| jbailey | (and don't know which ones they are) | 07:20 |
| jbailey | And we havne't talked about style or anything. | 07:20 |
| mdke | ok. Certainly try and get them tagged with CategoryDocumentation asap if you think they should be moved with the documentation to the new wiki | 07:20 |
| mdke | I'm hoping that we can do the move soon | 07:20 |
| mdke | then we can talk about if and how they can be integrated and so on | 07:20 |
| mdke | jbailey: as for the search, we didn't have time to work on that, hopefully we can get one in there eventually. | 07:26 |
| jbailey | Sure. That's why I figured maybe an iframe or one of those forms that just takes you to google. | 07:26 |
| jbailey | I used to know how to cook those up, but it's been a couple years since I've done it. | 07:27 |
| mdke | yeah, it's probably not hard | 07:27 |
| mdke | but we'd have to add it to all the html docs which are generated from xml | 07:28 |
| jbailey | Nah, just the front page. | 07:29 |
| mhz | highvoltage: oh, one other thing regarding drupal site, "Related Projects" menu should have Xubuntu too, or not? | 07:29 |
| mhz | ooops | 07:29 |
| mhz | sorry, wrong tab channel :) | 07:29 |
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