[12:03] <\sh> bmonty: builds here on amd64 just fine
[12:03] <bmonty> \sh: ok, thanks
[12:03] <\sh> rscheme 0.7.3.4.b3-4 right?
[12:04] <\sh> i can try as well on i386
[12:05] <bmonty> \sh: version is correct, and if you could try a i386 build that would be great
[12:05] <\sh> bmonty: on i386 I can reproduce your segfault
[12:06] <\sh> basic top level includes: mathlib
[12:06] <\sh> make[2] : *** [system.img]  Segmentation fault
[12:06] <\sh> make[2] : Leaving directory `/home/shermann/packages/dapper/rscheme/rscheme-0.7.3.4.b3/stage0'
[12:06] <bmonty> \sh: yup, ok at least it isn't just me :)
[12:07] <bmonty> \sh: can you please add a note to Malone #47107 with what you just tested?
[12:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47107 in rscheme "[UNMETDEPS]  rscheme links against old libmysqlclient" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47107
[12:07] <\sh> sure
[12:08] <\sh> hmm...my karma will just increase again today
[12:17] <hub> is it me or no info has been put up about the ubuntu conference un Paris?
[12:18] <LaserJock> Dapper isn't even out the door yet :-)
[12:18] <LaserJock> but yeah, I'd like to see info too
[12:20] <\sh> hub: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis?highlight=%28Paris%29
[12:21] <hub> ah ok
[12:21] <hub> fridge has nothing
[12:21] <hub> nor the calendar
[12:22] <bmonty> \sh: php4-yaz is uploaded
[12:23] <\sh> bmonty: thx :)
[12:23] <hub> \sh: will you be there?
[12:23] <LaserJock> well, I was looking for more info, but whatever
[12:28] <\sh> hub: dunno...I'm busy with my FAI project...actually I could only join for a weekend or so, if I find the time and money to come to paris, and a sleeping place in paris would be nice ;)
[12:31] <neutrinomass> Is it part of policy that the "Depends" line of a package does not contain newlines ?
[12:32] <\sh> neutrinomass: it needs to be one line
[12:35] <neutrinomass> \sh: I'm writing a program that parses /var/lib/dpkg/status and I'm having problems. Now that I look at it closely, it's not a newline problem. The status file lists different deps than what 'aptitude show evince-gtk' does (although I have no clue as to why ... )
[12:36] <\sh> neutrinomass: which package do you parse? source or binary?
[12:36] <LaserJock> anybody know of a way to test debconf stuff
[12:37] <neutrinomass> \sh: 'evince-gtk'.  In the status file, I only see "Package","priority","architecture" and "section", while aptitude show evince-gtk lists a bunch of dependencies.
[12:37] <\sh> LaserJock: man debconf ;)
[12:38] <neutrinomass> \sh: I might be doing something wrong, I'm not intimately acquainted with dpkg and friends....
[12:38] <\sh> neutrinomass: wait :)
[12:38] <neutrinomass> \sh: Thanks a lot ! :)
[12:39] <bmonty> LaserJock: make sure you make a local debconf config file
[12:39] <\sh> LaserJock: under examples in this manpage there is a way how to test debconf things
[12:40] <LaserJock> \sh: oh, ok. thanks
[12:40] <\sh> neutrinomass: hmm...when I install evince-gtk /var/lib/dpkg/status shows me the same dependencies as apt-cache show evince-gtk
[12:40] <neutrinomass> \sh: After installing only ? Shouldn't that stuff be available before installing ?
[12:41] <\sh> neutrinomass: no not status
[12:41] <neutrinomass> \sh: I've been parsing the wrong file. In C :( Grrr, where is that information then ?
[12:42] <hub> \sh: just asking. won't  be there
[12:43] <\sh> neutrinomass: in /var/lib/apt/
[12:43] <\sh> neutrinomass: in /var/lib/dpkg/ only all installed stuff is mentioned there...what you want is Packages
[12:44] <\sh> hub: tell me when you are the next time in germany :) I owe you some beer ;)
[12:44] <neutrinomass> \sh: Great! Thanks! I'm pretty lucky the file format is the same :D Btw, since I've already distracted you from your work, is there a way to know a files content's without installing them? (besides packages.ubuntu.com )
[12:45] <\sh> neutrinomass: check apt-file :)
[12:46] <neutrinomass> \sh: Thanks.
[12:46] <\sh> neutrinomass: or http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/ there are Content-$arch.gz files..that's what you want
[12:48] <\sh> and no one is distracting me...I should be in bed, because I have to get up at 3am UTC+2
[12:49] <neutrinomass> \sh: I'll just hook apt-file with a bash script afterwards (I could do the entire thing in bash, but I totally suck at it so I had to resort to C). Last question: How come some packages don't have "Depends" ?
[12:50] <\sh> neutrinomass: e.g.?
[12:51] <neutrinomass> \sh: I don't know. But cat us.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_dapper_main_source_Sources | grep Package | wc -l gives 2384, but grepping for "Packages" gives 2429
[12:53] <neutrinomass> Hm.. grepping for "Package:" gives 2384, but "Depends:" gives 1369 ...
[12:54] <\sh> neutrinomass: because you have Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep ;)
[12:54] <\sh> which is 2 lines
[12:56] <neutrinomass> \sh: (last, I promise!) Yes, yes. If a package uses gtk/qt/... for example though, it will be in Depends, not in the other categories?
[12:56] <\sh> categories and dependencies are different
[12:56] <\sh> s/categories/sections/
[12:57] <\sh> neutrinomass: but you have to make a difference between source packages and binary packages
[12:57] <neutrinomass> \sh: Yes yes. I'm trying to figure out what programs have a GUI (to write a program that will semi-automatically create the .desktops for them). I've got a comprehensive list of widget toolkits, so I'm looking at "Depends" ...
[12:58] <\sh> neutrinomass: you can't tell, there are some packages which only have build-dependencies but no UI attached
[01:00] <neutrinomass> \sh: Well, yes. I'm surely going to miss a few,.. But I take it for granted that everything that includes gtk libs has a GUI to go with it :) Anyway, thanks a lot. I'll be skipping the packages without "Depends" in them ...
[01:01] <\sh> neutrinomass: hmm..what about styles?
[01:01] <hub> \sh: I was in Mainz the other day. I don't know next time
[01:01] <hub> I'm not even sure I'll have a job tomorrow evening
[01:02] <\sh> neutrinomass: e.g. kde styles do have a libqt build-dep, but it's not actually a GUI, but it's UI and doesn't need a .desktop file as in "put it into a menu" ;)
[01:02] <\sh> hub: hu? what's up?
[01:02] <hub> \sh: management conflict, we'll see
[01:03] <hub> but if that end up that way, they are just moron
[01:03] <zul> heh...they always are
[01:03] <neutrinomass> \sh: I'll be creating useless .desktops for a few, yes. But if I can get 100 semi-ready (I'll have to fill in the .desktop "Category" manually in any case) , I don't mind rejecting a couple of useless files on the way :)
[01:03] <\sh> hub: I know a company who needs good people ;) sysadmins and coders ;)
[01:04] <zul> er..would that be canonical
[01:04] <hub> \sh: as long as I can stay were I an
[01:04] <azeem> hub: why didn't they send you to LinuxTag as well (you're at Xandros, right?).  They only had 1-man booth there IIRC
[01:04] <hub> azeem: that was actually a personal schedule conflict
[01:04] <\sh> neutrinomass: so you try to create .desktop files, and depending on libqt or libgtk dependencies you file them into the right category, like GNOME or QT?
[01:04] <azeem> ah
[01:04] <hub> azeem: I was signing for my new house and moving
[01:04] <hub> azeem: I return the van at 12:00 flying out at 15:00
[01:05] <hub> azeem: so it was not possible. otherwise I would have
[01:05] <\sh> azeem: xandros in .de is just a  one man show ;)
[01:05] <hub> azeem: yeah, I'm a devleoper, not a sales person
[01:06] <hub> azeem: my boss offered me to change the tickets to leave sooner
[01:07] <neutrinomass> \sh: Hopefully yes. What I want to do is basically: Look through the deps of all the packages and pick out those with widget deps. List the conents of those packages and if they have a .desktop, I drop them. I find the icon using locate, I grab the first line of the package description and put it as a tooltip (it's good 70% of the times). Depending on the libs yeah, I could do the QT/GTK thing. Otherwise I'm left with many many .deskto
[01:07] <azeem> I think there were more developers than sales persons at the booths, but I didn't check :)
[01:07] <hub> azeem: well, it depends what you try to sell
[01:07] <hub> azeem: :-)
[01:07] <hub> azeem: but it does not matter
[01:07] <neutrinomass> \sh: Say 5 min fixing it up, another 3 min to file a report it in LP and another 2 min to link to the report you opened on the debian bugtracker :)
[01:12] <neutrinomass> Bah, I'll try to do it with pipes instead. Screw C.
[02:27] <ajmitch> afternoon
[02:27] <bmonty> hey ajmitch
[02:29] <tseng> hi
[02:31] <\sh> moins
[03:00] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch
[03:00] <zul> yo
[03:00] <ajmitch> hello zul, imbrandon
[03:01] <zakame> hi all
[03:01] <zakame> yo zul ajmitch imbrandon
[03:01] <imbrandon> sup ...
[03:01] <zul> hey zakame
[03:02] <imbrandon> lots of oo.o updated as of late ;)
[03:05] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:06] <ajmitch> hello bddebian
[03:06] <ajmitch> ready to fix more bugs?
[03:06] <zakame> heya bddebian
[03:06] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[03:06] <bddebian> and zakame
[03:06] <bddebian> ajmitch: Sure.  But I thought uploads were cut off?
[03:07] <ajmitch> not that I've heard
[03:07] <ajmitch> I'll find out in a few minutes if my uploads don't get accepted :)
[03:08] <bddebian> heh
[03:08] <ajmitch> zakame: sounds like you're getting heavily involved now :)
[03:09] <bddebian> Yeah, zakame is Da Man now :-)
[03:09] <zakame> ajmitch: yeah, which is why I've been quiet at LP lately :D
[03:09] <zakame> bddebian: lol!
[03:10] <zul> hehe....i think the term is fabbione's bitch
[03:10] <zul> ;)
[03:10] <ajmitch> zakame enjoys it
[03:10] <bddebian> Doh
[03:10] <bddebian> Well I offered to be their bitch but they don't want me :'-(
[03:10] <zul> he does like i did...too much info
[03:11] <zul> uh huh
[03:11] <zakame> hahaha
[03:12] <ajmitch> bddebian: ok, uploads are still accepted
[03:12] <ajmitch> I just got 3 in
[03:12] <zul> whoo...big man..
[03:12] <zul> ill be doing two hopefully this week..
[03:14] <bddebian> ajmitch: Well I'm useless/nobody anyway so...
[03:22] <imbrandon> j/k
[03:24] <bddebian> heh
[03:36] <ajmitch> right, lunchtime
[03:38] <Lathiat> haha imbrandon
[03:39] <truz_`24> what is a good hex editing tool for kde or gnome?
[03:39] <imbrandon> ghex or khexedit
[04:54] <julian> hi, i originally asked this question in #ubuntu+1 with no help. question regarding 'switch user' option in the Exit menu.  which product is this filed under for Launchpad?  i want to look up the current bugs.
[04:54] <julian> i want to check if a bug i have is a duplicate/already reported.
[05:17] <crimsun> bddebian: yes?
[05:18] <bddebian> Just saying Hi.  Sorry
[05:22] <crimsun> bddebian: ah, usually people want to wring my neck when they use exclamation marks
[05:22] <bddebian> Nah
[05:41] <LaserJock> oh, for goodness sakes. I'm starting to hate debconf :/
[05:44] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:44] <bddebian> What
[05:44] <bddebian> 's the problem?
[05:48] <LaserJock> I'm trying to use debconf so ripped off suns, but with virtually the same thing I get errors
[05:49] <LaserJock> but I can't figure out how to test it other than building the .deb and doing dpkg -i
[05:50] <crimsun> be careful with the debconf keys
[05:50] <crimsun> you need to cover several cases when you test with debconf: clean install, upgrade, and downgrade
[05:51] <crimsun> it's the same issue that has been biting us with flashplugin-nonfree
[05:52] <LaserJock> well, I can't even get install to work
[06:41] <Hobbsee> greetings
[06:43] <crimsun> 'afternoon, Hobbsee
[06:43] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
[06:44] <Hobbsee> hi crimsun and LaserJock
[06:44] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee, bye Hobbsee :-)
[06:44] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:44] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
[06:44] <ajmitch> night bddebian
[06:45] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch & night bddebian
[06:45] <bddebian> :-)
[06:45] <Hobbsee> night time already?
[06:45] <LaserJock> cya bddebian
[06:45] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: kids wear him out
[06:45] <Hobbsee> hehe.  if in doubt, blame the kids.
[06:48] <Hobbsee> hmmm...i really did get the cheapest petrol today.
[07:06] <crimsun> I'll whip up some duplicate Kubuntu issues just for yuo!
[07:09] <Hobbsee> no!
[07:09] <crimsun> aww c'mon
[07:10] <crimsun> you have all the great sound reports for me :-)
[07:11] <Hobbsee> hehe
[07:12] <Hobbsee> i had a look at the alsa documentation a while ago - looks like you have plenty of sound documentation at your disposal...
[07:14] <crimsun> oh I do. What's lovely about it is its scattered and obsolete nature. :-)
[07:14] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:41] <Gloubiboulga> morning MOTU world
[08:42] <LaserJock> hi Gloubiboulga
[08:43] <Gloubiboulga> hi LaserJock :)
[09:05] <dholbach> good morning motu world
[09:05] <Gloubiboulga> hello dholbach!
[09:05] <dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
[09:06] <Hobbsee> hi dholbach and Gloubiboulga
[09:06] <Gloubiboulga> hi Hobbsee
[09:08] <LaserJock> dholbach!
[09:08] <dholbach> heya Hobbsee, LaserJock
[09:08] <dholbach> how's the universe fixing going?
[09:10] <LaserJock> unfortunately, I think there are more MOTUScience bugs than I can get done in time :(
[09:10] <LaserJock> but I suppose Universe in general is doing worse
[09:29] <LaserJock> dholbach: how are things going for you? are you getting any sleep?
[09:29] <dholbach> yeah, a bit :)
[09:29] <Hobbsee> dholbach: did the extra unmet deps stuff make it onto that list?
[09:30] <dholbach> Hobbsee: yeah
[09:31] <Hobbsee> dholbach: cool
[09:33] <LaserJock> uggh, I can't wait for Dapper to be done with but I feel like we should have another year to finish it
[09:33] <crimsun> welcome to software "engineering" :-)
[09:40] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i just checked libadabindx - it seems to build fine here - what should i do with the bug?  says it was linked to the old libmysqlclient, but i cant see that in the control file anyway...
[09:40] <dholbach> Hobbsee: yeah, that was my problem with the bug title *blush*
[09:40] <Hobbsee> hehe right
[09:40] <dholbach> Hobbsee: one of its binary packages seems to be not installable
[09:40] <Hobbsee> dholbach: and the fact that it seems to build fine here?
[09:41] <Hobbsee> ah, depends on xlibs-static-pic
[09:42] <Hobbsee> wonder why the pbuilder didnt pick it up - i thought it was supposed to...
[09:44] <ajmitch> because it's not in the build-deps
[09:44] <Hobbsee> hmm...okay, i'm an idiot.  seems to need xlibs-static-pic to install, not to build.
[09:49] <LaserJock> ok, so is the general rule to not have versioned deps unless it is neccesary?
[09:50] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i believe that's the case.
[10:21] <Toadstool> heya motus
[11:40] <crimsun> -devel is getting a bit tense.
[11:40] <Gloubiboulga> indeed, I don't like that :(
[11:41] <Toadstool> release in 2~3 days, annoying bugs, everybody's stressed :/
[11:45] <crimsun> heh. I'm stressed already by the anticipated deluge of sound bugs.
[11:45] <crimsun> And Ubuntu is the /least/ of my worries.
[01:16] <siretart> any mldonkey fans here?
[01:17] <siretart> if yes, could someone please retest this patch? it made problems for me, but I think this update is more or less urgent.. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi/debdiff?bug=354701;msg=10;att=1
[01:17] <ajmitch> sorry, I'm not :)
[01:17] <ajmitch> how are you siretart ?
[01:17] <siretart> ajmitch: was a great weekend, but quite rainy
[01:18] <ajmitch> hm, patch looks like it's needed
[01:18] <siretart> ajmitch: how are you?
[01:18] <ajmitch> I'm good
[01:18] <ajmitch> preparing for edgy, finishing off whatever little I can do for dapper
[01:18] <siretart> last time, the package didn't install for me properly, and I wasn't sure why
[01:19] <siretart> but I don't think it is because of this patch, I rather think that I triggered some other bug in the package, but I'm not sure what it actually is, so I forwarded it to debian and hoped that someone else could look at the issue
[01:20] <ajmitch> the debdiff looks sane, at least
[01:21] <siretart> the current ubuntu package has a lot more invasive approach to this issue, and I'd like to see it dropped
[03:09] <bmonty> Malone #40505, any reason why this hasn't been uploaded?
[03:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40505 in wine "UVF exception for Wine 0.9.12" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40505
[03:13] <ajmitch> bmonty: because the UVF exception for that version wasn't approved?
[03:13] <bmonty> ajmitch: the bug report has a link to an email that says it was
[03:13] <ajmitch> no
[03:13] <bmonty> at least for the latest at the time of the email
[03:14] <ajmitch> the bug report has a link to a former approval
[03:14] <ajmitch> note that siretart uploaded 0.9.9 on march 10th
[03:14] <bmonty> ok
[03:14] <ajmitch> just because it was approved once in the past doesn't mean all future upstream versions get approval :)
[03:15] <ajmitch> if there's to be any chance, it'd have to pass by the uvf team
[03:15] <bmonty> ajmitch: agreed, is there any point in doing a UVF request for it now?
[03:15] <ajmitch> dunno
[03:15] <ajmitch> it'd be a fair bit to approve
[03:15] <bmonty> how will this work with dapper-updates?
[03:15] <zul> yo
[03:15] <ajmitch> the UVF team have all been on irc in the last few hours
[03:16] <bmonty> hi zul
[03:16] <ajmitch> I don't know, you'd have to check with mdz
[03:16] <ajmitch> good day zul
[03:16] <siretart> bmonty: I think wine is rather a -backports candidate than a -updates one
[03:16] <bmonty> siretart: ok, I'll just leave it alone then :)
[03:16] <zul> hey ajmitch
[03:17] <siretart> bmonty: you can still file a bug and create a bugtask for adding it to dapper-backports, so it doesn't get lost
[03:17] <ajmitch> getting UVF exceptions for big packages like wine at this late stage is hopeful at best :)
[03:17] <siretart> ajmitch: yes. let's better tell ppl to get it into dapper-backports instead
[03:20] <ajmitch> night all
[03:20] <siretart> gn8 ajmitch
[03:21] <bmonty> hmm, you can't mark a bug for backport to dapper yet :)
[03:23] <siretart> bmonty: this is indeed a problem and needs to be solved
[03:24] <bmonty> siretart: opening a bug now :)
[03:32] <siretart> bmonty: bugno? (I'd like to subscribe)
[03:33] <bmonty> siretart: Malone #47291
[03:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47291 in malone "need to add dapper to backport menu" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47291
[03:36] <neutrinomass> should dfontmgr (an interface to defoma) go under Applications->System, System->Preferences or System->Administration ?
[03:55] <thierryn> Seveas : can I disturb you from your important work?
[03:55] <Seveas> my important work currently is a game of neverputt 
[03:56] <Seveas> so no, maybe in 10 minutes ;)
[03:56] <thierryn> Sevas : no problem :)
[04:06] <Seveas> thierryn, 'sup?
[04:07] <thierryn> Seveas : hi, I'd just like to know if I am ready enough for the community council tomorrow... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryMoisan
[04:08] <thierryn> Seveas : I'd also want to know if you've seen seb128 on irc recently, I want to talk to him since about a week and I never find him
[04:08] <Seveas> #ubuntu-desktop
[04:09] <thierryn> k thanks
[04:09] <Seveas> your wikipage looks ok, you should at least get a motu and one of the admins of the french team to do some cheerleading for you
[04:10] <Seveas> and if you get seb128 to cheerlead for you, that'd be really good
[04:10] <thierryn> I was thinking about seb128
[04:10] <thierryn> :)
[04:16] <thierryn> siretart :  ping
[04:16] <siretart> thierryn: pong
[04:17] <thierryn> siretart : you advocated my package (libfxscintilla), so I was wondering if you could help me tomorrow at the community council
[04:18] <siretart> thierryn: this was some time ago, no?
[04:19] <thierryn> yeah...
[04:19] <siretart> thierryn: I'm not sure if I can make it tomorrow.. :/
[04:19] <thierryn> well it's at 16h00 UTC
[04:26] <thierryn> siretart : anyway if you sudenly discover you can make it, I would be happy that you come, othwerwise that's not the end of the world
[04:32] <bmonty> anyone see why the packages user-es and user-de should remain in the archive?
[04:32] <Whoopie> Hi, who could fix mail-notification bug #43058 and #44086? There are only small adjustments needed which are stated in the bug report. Thanks a lot.
[04:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43058 in mail-notification "mail-notification doesn't autostart anymore" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43058
[04:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44086 in mail-notification "mail-notification's icon in the notification area has got a solid grey background." [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44086
[06:26] <Tonio_> hi
[08:48] <neutrinomass> Would it be silly to file bugs for .desktops that don't validate because of a missing semi-column in Categories ?
[09:06] <bluefoxicy> neutrinomass:  no, go ahead and file.
[09:09] <neutrinomass> bluefoxicy: Ok. I'm feeling a little like wasting peoples' times though :)
[09:45] <igorzolnikov> Hi, i like ubuntu. How can i help it?
[09:50] <crimsun> igorzolnikov: scroll to the bottom of http://www.ubuntu.com/community
[09:50] <crimsun> igorzolnikov: one place we sorely need assistance is in bug triaging/work ; please /join #ubuntu-bugs and read its topic
[10:44] <Sp4rKy> hi
[10:44] <Sp4rKy> i've some issue with a bug "patching"
[10:44] <Sp4rKy> i'd "apt-get source" the bugged package
[10:45] <Sp4rKy> and  i've modify the source
[10:45] <Sp4rKy> but when i want regenerate the source (dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S)
[10:45] <Sp4rKy> i've an error because the email doesn't have secret key
[10:46] <Sp4rKy> because is the mail of the first packager
[10:46] <Sp4rKy> so how could i change this please ?
[10:58] <azeem> add -us -uc  to the command line to prevent signing
[10:58] <azeem> you can sign with the debsign tool if you decide you need it signed later on
[10:59] <Sp4rKy> thx
[10:59] <Sp4rKy> it works
[11:08] <neutrinomass> Um... I created a .desktop with "Math;Science;" in Categories and it doesn't show up in the menu (it's supposed to be under Other, righ? ). changing it to e.g. "system" fixes this ...
[11:09] <LaserJock> crimsun: ping?
[11:16] <crimsun> LaserJock: pong
[11:19] <LaserJock> crimsun: I was wondering about (w)(x)maxima
[11:20] <crimsun> if uploads are still permitted, using non-gcl per reports is preferable
[11:21] <LaserJock> do you have any time to try it?
[11:21] <crimsun> building or testing? I have a presentation tomorrow.
[11:22] <LaserJock> building, but I can try to do it if you are busy
[11:22] <crimsun> please do, ping me if you run into something
[11:33] <LaserJock> crimsun: is there a preference for cmucl or clisp, they both reportedly work
[11:34] <crimsun> LaserJock: whichever is easier (slimmer) in terms of dependencies and most compatible
[11:38] <LaserJock> hehe, well I had hoped you would know the answer to that, I don't know anything about LISP
[11:41] <crimsun> I'd go with the former looking at the bug list for both