[12:13] <nictuku> hi
[12:38] <nictuku> neuralis, you're not going to the dev summit, either?
[02:26] <nictuku> spike, are you there?
[02:28] <spike> nictuku: sorta yeah, almost 2am here
[02:29] <spike> nictuku: how's n-u going?
[02:32] <nictuku> spike, very well, although I'd like to continue the discussion you started about its scope
[02:33] <spike> nictuku: I'd be pleased to. I've been talking aroun with some friends about it, and they seemed interested, hopefully we'll agreed for a core group and start coding something ppl can play with
[02:33] <nictuku> IMO, it's not always true that ServerLand overrides NetworkWideUpdates
[02:34] <nictuku> spike, but coding for serverland or network updates?
[02:34] <nictuku> https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/nwu/roadmap
[02:36] <spike> nictuku: coding that thing I was proposing, which is kinda on the lines of serverland. n-u would be one of the "connected" tools
[02:37] <spike> I'm looking at the roadmap
[02:37] <nictuku> did you see http://trac.mcs.anl.gov/projects/bcfg2 ?
[02:37] <ajmitch> hello
[02:37] <nictuku> ajmitch, hi
[02:38] <spike> nictuku: yes, but that's something cfengine like
[02:38] <nictuku> spike, my point is that nwu is useful even for small and medium-sized networks, and serverland is much more complex
[02:38] <spike> nictuku: perfectly agree on that
[02:40] <nictuku> but I miss a broader discussion on that. there is even the possibility that canonical is writing a tool that could also replace nwu
[02:42] <spike> nictuku: bcfg2 doesnt cover what I want to do. mine is more like cant_rememmber_the_name, it's not sugarcrm... damn
[02:43] <spike> anyway, that one is more inventory,CRM/ticket related. mine could/will maybe include that part too but starting small it'll be oriented at monitoring in the beginning
[02:43] <spike> nictuku: ah, didnt know that. thought nwu *was* what canonical was investing
[02:43] <spike> the one that was gonna be the official product, that is
[02:44] <nictuku> spike, well, that's what I wanted to be confirmed, maybe in the UFK
[02:45] <ajmitch> nictuku: you're going to be in paris?
[02:45] <nictuku> ajmitch, unfortunately, not
[02:45] <ajmitch> ah
[02:45] <spike> what does it take to partecipate?
[02:45] <ajmitch> then I guess you'll just have to spec it out well beforehand :)
[02:46] <nictuku> ajmitch, it's already spec'ed, but I don't know if it's approved
[02:46] <nictuku> michael vogt wrote that before dapper
[02:47] <nictuku> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkWideUpdates
[02:47] <ajmitch> right
[02:47] <ajmitch> and have you updated the spec to say that you have an implementation now?
[02:48] <nictuku> yes
[02:48] <nictuku> "UPDATE: YvesJunqueira (nictuku) is working on that. Milestone1 is not far. See [WWW]  https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/nwu"
[02:48] <neuralis> nictuku: i will be in paris
[02:49] <ajmitch> hi neuralis
[02:49] <neuralis> nictuku: also, canonical has apparently been funding the development of a web-based tool for managing entire ubuntu networks, and it's quite possible they've implemented something like nwu as part of it. i don't have concrete information yet.
[02:49] <neuralis> hey ajmitch.
[02:50] <ajmitch> neuralis: that secretive landscape-client?
[02:50] <ajmitch> which mysteriously slipped into the desktop seeds with no info a few days ago?
[02:51] <neuralis> ajmitch: yes.
[02:51] <ajmitch> if so, I think it's a very bad way to do development, when the rest of us are kept in the dark like that :)
[02:51] <nictuku> neuralis, my implementation is almost 100% adherent to the spec already, so the secrecy of this project is counter-productive
[02:52] <neuralis> http://ln-s.net/ALs
[02:52] <neuralis> search for "there is" in the page, read that paragraph
[02:53] <nictuku> :-(
[02:53] <nictuku> strangely enough, mark himself knew I was writing nwu, and was very supportive
[02:53] <ajmitch> great
[02:54] <nictuku> SoC?
[02:54] <neuralis> ajmitch: i can't say i understand what went on there.
[02:54] <neuralis> nictuku: summer of code.
[02:54] <nictuku> summer of code..
[02:55] <ajmitch> nictuku: I'm doing the network authentication project
[02:55] <nictuku> I don't want to see a scandal, but do you guys think that should be discussed in the lists, using this publicly available information I have?
[02:57] <nictuku> ajmitch, that is my plan too, even after hearing a rumor that project existed =] 
[02:57] <neuralis> nictuku: i certainly think you're free to write to ubuntu-devel and ask what's going on.
[02:57] <neuralis> what confuses me is that both mark and jane extol the all-development-out-in-the-open model, so either we're operating from incomplete information, or something strange is going on.
[02:57] <ajmitch> neuralis: that's what I question
[02:58] <nictuku> +1 there
[02:58] <ajmitch> I'd say that either the network auth project I'm doing won't overlap, or even the distro team people have been kept in the dark :)
[03:01] <nictuku> I think that project is closed-source
[03:01] <ajmitch> closed for now, but going to be open, you think?
[03:01] <nictuku> a canonical-hosted service
[03:01] <ajmitch> ah
[03:01] <nictuku> no, I don't think
[03:01] <ajmitch> that would be interesting
[03:01] <nictuku> like a microsoft SUS with a free SUS client
[03:02] <neuralis> it won't be canonical-hosted; it really can't be.
[03:02] <neuralis> if it's closed source, i imagine it'll be a proprietary product for which businesses may purchase a license (and possibly obtain the source).
[03:02] <neuralis> but this is stupid speculation; we should just wait to hear what's going on.
[03:02] <ajmitch> I agree
[03:02] <ajmitch> it's only a few days until dapper releases
[03:04] <neuralis> ajmitch: the interview said this won't be ready for dapper; i imagine the real landscape-client will just trickle in through -updates eventually.
[03:04] <ajmitch> I'd imagine so
[03:05] <ajmitch> neuralis: on a different note, what would you prefer to see in edgy? apparmor or selinux? :)
[03:05] <ajmitch> considering that debian is getting selinux integration for etch
[03:09] <ajmitch> I imagine specs for both will get written up & may get discussed in paris
[03:12] <neuralis> i quite like apparmor's apache integration, and i haven't seen selinux doing anything similar, though i haven't been looking at selinux particularly closely in a long time
[03:12] <neuralis> it's actually been a long time in general since i've paid attention to linux mac solutions
[03:12] <neuralis> mostly, they're just about 1-3 orders of magnitude too complex to be of any practical benefit.
[03:20] <infinity> nictuku: Even if landscape turns out to be a complete replacement for NWU, there's no reason to drop NWU, since landscape will be a subscription service.
[03:21] <infinity> nictuku: Plenty of more frugal admins (or people like me) would prefer to have something like NWU that is both Free and free.
[03:22] <nictuku> infinity, good to hear that
[07:37] <daxxar> Hm. infinity, I think I got it solved. Again, thanks to you, frinkillo and gpd. :-)
[07:37] <daxxar> I ran it for ~6 hours of MemTest86 after I removed the memorystick I suspected of being bad, no errors.
[08:15] <daxxar> .. Or not.
[08:52] <daxxar> Bloody hell. :|
[08:52] <daxxar> Guess it's the CPU or mobo then. *sigh* Guess I'll have to test it when I get back home.