| kiko | I don't see why uploading would be difficult -- it's a simple post to a form | 12:05 |
|---|---|---|
| kiko | there are actually third-party tools that post for you IIRC | 12:05 |
| clahey | It's a simple post to form for a tarball or do I have to post each po file? | 12:06 |
| clahey | Oh, third party tools is cool. | 12:06 |
| kiko | you can do either | 12:06 |
| clahey | I do like the interface. | 12:06 |
| kiko | tarball or pofiles | 12:06 |
| clahey | Oh, posting a tarball wouldn't be so bad. | 12:06 |
| kiko | we've got an XMLRPC UI that makes things slightly more convenient | 12:06 |
| kiko | err | 12:06 |
| kiko | a planned XMLRPC UI | 12:07 |
| kiko | but in your case the main issue is really automating downloads. | 12:07 |
| clahey | That's just downloading a tarball and expanding it, right? | 12:07 |
| kiko | correct. | 12:07 |
| clahey | Do you guys support individuals downloading and uploading po files so they can do their processing locally? | 12:07 |
| === fabbione [n=fabbione@george.kkhotels.co.uk] has joined #launchpad | ||
| kiko | sure | 12:07 |
| kiko | that's one of the workflows rosetta supports | 12:08 |
| clahey | And then it intgrates with what's there? Cool. | 12:08 |
| kiko | yes | 12:08 |
| kiko | you also get to control who decides which translations are official | 12:08 |
| clahey | Your UI is the nicest looking one I've seen. | 12:08 |
| kiko | so you can have a trusted group of translators | 12:08 |
| kiko | and then community translators can add suggestions for their posterior review | 12:08 |
| clahey | Yeah, I saw that. Very neat. | 12:08 |
| kiko | thanks, it's been a lot of work to get there. | 12:08 |
| clahey | Actually, we could totally make it so that editing the po files from svn wasn't an option. If you want to edit a po file, you have to get it from rosetta and submit it there. | 12:09 |
| kiko | there are already some products that use that policy | 12:09 |
| clahey | I noticed there are suggestion areas. If you're an official translator, do you get a checkbox you can mark so you don't have to copy it? | 12:10 |
| kiko | jordi's the best guy to tell you because he is community ninja | 12:10 |
| kiko | clahey, not yet, but there's a patch that does it -- there are some UI concerns with the way the form works that makes it a non-straightforward decision, but we will have an expedited review UI | 12:10 |
| kiko | carlos is working on a change which allows you to zoom into specific strings and see their history, and all suggestions | 12:11 |
| kiko | next steps from there are allowing for ajax-style navigation, and also for allowing one-click accepts | 12:11 |
| mpt | kiko! | 12:17 |
| kiko | oh-oh, what did I say! | 12:17 |
| mpt | kiko, don't worry, you're not in *that* much trouble | 12:18 |
| clahey | kiko: Cool. We'll discuss it here. Rosetta looks awesome. | 12:18 |
| kiko | clahey, great to hear. be sure to let me know if you need anything. | 12:18 |
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| kiko | wtf is up with pqm | 12:39 |
| kiko | ah I know | 12:39 |
| kiko | it must be that lifeless is on a plane. | 12:39 |
| sivang | dudes, how do I see translations by a specific person ? | 12:41 |
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| matsubara | sivang: /people/$person/+translations i think | 12:42 |
| === sivang checks | ||
| kiko | sivang, you can't easily today. and +translations is rife with timeouts and it only indicates templates not actual translations | 12:42 |
| sivang | yes, that is what I see now | 12:43 |
| sivang | https://launchpad.net/people/nir78/+translations | 12:43 |
| sivang | when I click a template, I see alist of people that translated there | 12:43 |
| sivang | so we currently have no way to evaluate membership of people to translation teams... | 12:44 |
| sivang | I kept sending them to do work on the Hebrew wiki, some of them did, some prefer to work through rosetta | 12:44 |
| sivang | :-) | 12:44 |
| === sivang tries to think a way to evalute. | ||
| sivang | how can I see then propsed translations? | 12:45 |
| sivang | (by a specific person) | 12:45 |
| kiko | sivang, ask them which translations they contributed to? | 12:45 |
| sivang | I did, they did not respond. I will re-ask | 12:45 |
| sivang | I mean, they told me "review my work on launchpad" | 12:45 |
| kiko | tell them "yes, launchpad is as big as africa, so where? " | 12:46 |
| sivang | hehe | 12:46 |
| sivang | at least you don't get parasites like when you dip in african water :) | 12:46 |
| kiko | that's a rumor | 12:46 |
| kiko | I have dipped and sipped from african water | 12:46 |
| kiko | I only got friendly parasites | 12:47 |
| sivang | and you don't have any hitch hiker with you? :) | 12:47 |
| kiko | I prefer to call them friends | 12:47 |
| sivang | some girl from here that went there, was digged a bite fly's cocon from her forehead. gross! | 12:47 |
| sivang | anyway, back to happy things :) | 12:48 |
| kiko | I got one of those in california | 12:48 |
| sivang | serious? | 12:48 |
| kiko | yeah. parasites exist even in developed countries! | 12:49 |
| sivang | Well, sure, but not in the same quantities probably. anyway, how was it removed eventually? | 12:51 |
| sivang | and what are those so called friend you say you dragged with you from their comfortable home on Africa? :) | 12:52 |
| lifeless | bye guys, me-> London | 12:52 |
| === sivang emailed the dude to send specific links of his translation suggestions. | ||
| sivang | lifeless: easy flight! | 12:52 |
| === sivang goes to read about pagetests finally | ||
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| sivang | kiko: do you have an idea if the pre-knits rocketfuel-get scripts are still applicable? or should I just use the instructions in RocketfuelToKnits, I don't have any branch I need to keep or so. | 01:15 |
| sivang | hmm, bzr upgrade takes a while over my checkout branch | 01:27 |
| sivang | and the disk howls | 01:27 |
| sivang | hrm, still converting | 01:49 |
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| sivang | I hate sever drop off | 02:08 |
| sivang | server, even | 02:08 |
| === sivang wonders when bzr upgrade will finish | ||
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| mpt | Gooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders! | 03:04 |
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| elmo | who's responsible for bzrsyncd on gandwana? | 04:41 |
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| BehemothNet60137 | question | 04:53 |
| === BehemothNet60137 is now known as Gigawatts | ||
| Gigawatts | i have now done the beginning of the registration process to ship ubuntu cd's twice | 04:54 |
| Gigawatts | and i never recieve an email | 04:55 |
| Gigawatts | and i know the email address is correct | 04:55 |
| mpt | spiv / jamesh / lifeless, skype call to discuss the next stage of MaloneSimplifications? | 05:10 |
| mpt | hmmm, spiv and lifeless aren't here | 05:11 |
| jamesh | mpt: sure. | 05:11 |
| mpt | brb | 05:12 |
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| stub | Gigawatts: Could it be that you or your ISP think it is spam and are dropping it? | 05:36 |
| stub | I can give you a gmail invite if you want to test with another account | 05:36 |
| mpt | jamesh, "The reviewer must send in a small summary of the call (no more than a paragraph or so) including the time the call took to the lp-reviews list" | 05:47 |
| jamesh | mpt: thanks | 05:49 |
| mpt | argh | 05:52 |
| mpt | stub, ETA for fixing login on staging? | 05:53 |
| stub | mpt: Today if I can get my damn branch to land (broken behavior was being relied on by a load of our tests, so fallout :-() | 05:53 |
| stub | mpt: Actually, I can do a quick fix. Hang on... | 05:53 |
| stub | mpt: Ok - that should fix it (the same way that production happens to be working fine with this bug) | 05:55 |
| stub | Logging into staging will probably kill your production session information though so don't try and use both at the same time | 05:56 |
| stub | or it might work... dunno | 05:56 |
| mpt | thanks stub | 05:58 |
| === stub wonders htf he can control his music volume seperately to his gaim alert volume | ||
| spiv | mpt: sorry, was at lunch | 06:06 |
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| Gigawatts | opps, sorry, was away for awhile | 06:38 |
| Gigawatts | stub, i checked my spam box, and nothing | 06:38 |
| Gigawatts | it was a hotmail account | 06:39 |
| Gigawatts | so i dont see a reason for it to not work, although i could try my gmail account also, see if that fixes it | 06:39 |
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| Gigawatts | ok, well it worked instantly with gmail, wierd | 06:57 |
| Gigawatts | wonder why it doesnt work with hotmail? | 06:57 |
| stub | Maybe it is just taking time, maybe they are dropping the email outright rather than putting it into your spam folder. No idea. | 07:08 |
| Gigawatts | ok, well thankyou, and you might want to investigate why the emails arent going through to hotmail accounts | 07:08 |
| Gigawatts | adios! | 07:08 |
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| SteveA | morning | 08:20 |
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| troy_s | need a launchpad guru again | 08:36 |
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| SteveA | hi troy_s. what's up? | 08:56 |
| === mpt_ sighs | ||
| mpt_ | Whenever I try to merge two of our overly-granular pages I disappear into a maze of classes and interfaces | 09:13 |
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| stub | Welcome to Zope3! | 09:16 |
| stub | ============ | 09:16 |
| stub | You are in a maze of classes and interfaces, all alike. | 09:16 |
| spiv | > kill metaclass | 09:19 |
| === spiv -> yoga | ||
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| carlos | morning | 09:54 |
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| sivang | morning all | 10:09 |
| sivang | does anyone know if bzr upgrade --format=knit of a -built tree should never finish on a 1.8G laptop with 1G ram ? I left it over night to do so, seeing now it still did not finish. It basically brought the machine to a complete halt, and I had to switch to a VT to kill gdm an drestart it. (that was my only way out since X/GNOME were unresponsive) | 10:12 |
| sivang | I did so since I wanted to workaround having to re-checkout in the knit format | 10:12 |
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| ddaa | wow | 10:25 |
| ddaa | you mean knit conversion of the launchpad tree? | 10:25 |
| ddaa | it's expected to take a very large amount of CPU and RAM | 10:25 |
| sivang | I see | 10:26 |
| ddaa | sivang: the proper upgrade procedure is to get the new knit-based launchpad, use it to prime a repository | 10:26 |
| sivang | so my machines didn't even stand a chance against it? | 10:26 |
| ddaa | then branch your existing weave branches in that repository | 10:26 |
| sivang | yes, I will do that now, but since my net connection is so crappy over the last couple of days,I figured to convert it on this laptop :) | 10:26 |
| ddaa | so you only effectively convert what code you have outstanding | 10:27 |
| ddaa | I do not know if your laptop stood a chance against it | 10:27 |
| sivang | yes, this is what RocketFuelToKnits descrbes, but since I Have not any outstanding code I thought to give it a try | 10:27 |
| ddaa | it is certainly possible to tweak the conversion code to change the RAM/CPU tradeoff | 10:27 |
| === sivang notes laptop got hot to the point it could not be touched in either the upper or back part of the left kbd part where the CPU lies | ||
| ddaa | from what you describe, you went out of RAM | 10:28 |
| ddaa | sivang: how much swap do you have? | 10:28 |
| sivang | seems so, machine became completely unresponsive | 10:29 |
| sivang | 1831368 | 10:29 |
| sivang | hmm, I should probably allocate some more | 10:30 |
| ddaa | too much swap prevents the OOM killer from kicking in, which can lead to severe thrashing even if the runaway code does to have very good cache behaviour | 10:30 |
| ddaa | sivang: nope, less swap is better | 10:30 |
| sivang | ah | 10:30 |
| ddaa | when the kernel runs out of VM, it pick and SIGABRT a process | 10:31 |
| ddaa | (or something like that, maybe not strictly SIGABRT) | 10:31 |
| sivang | ah, but when swap is too big then it won't do that? even if it gets filled? | 10:32 |
| ddaa | Here, I have 1GB of RAM and roughly as much swap, and I never run out of VM unless something is quite wrong. | 10:32 |
| ddaa | sivang: the problem is that when the swap is too big | 10:32 |
| ddaa | it takes a long time to fill the VM | 10:32 |
| ddaa | and unless the runaway process has very good behaviour with only needing new pages, that times grows explosively with thrashing | 10:33 |
| sivang | ddaa: that is , substantially bigger then the physical size? I only have like twice swap as my physical ram. | 10:33 |
| ddaa | YMMV | 10:34 |
| sivang | I see | 10:34 |
| ddaa | in my personal experience, with 1GB RAM, 1GB of swap is a good value. | 10:34 |
| ddaa | though I could probably get away with less, as it's never nearly full on normal usage | 10:34 |
| sivang | I will reduce it to this value, but not retry converting here :) | 10:35 |
| ddaa | sivang: hint | 10:35 |
| ddaa | are you using evolution and spamassin? | 10:35 |
| sivang | evo yes, | 10:37 |
| sivang | the latter no | 10:37 |
| ddaa | I noticed that when Evo crashes, it tends to leave rogue spamd processes around, that slowly eat your VM | 10:37 |
| sivang | hmmm, interesting | 10:37 |
| ddaa | dunno if the problem applies with other setups | 10:37 |
| ddaa | slowly, as in a few MB for each rogue spamd. That become quite significant after a week (and a dozen crashes) of normal use... | 10:39 |
| sivang | hmm, what is port 48064 and port 46454 ? I did netstat before I stop that trashy process to see if something is connecting to the machine , and found those too | 10:40 |
| sivang | ddaa: Well, I usually tend to shut off my machine after finishing, so I don't think I will have too much opportunity to run into this | 10:41 |
| === SteveA wonders if mpt_ is still around | ||
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| carlos | ddaa, sivang: you would need a bit more than 1GB of SWAP if you want to do suspend to disc | 11:00 |
| ddaa | point, I do not suspend to disc as it did not wake up when I last tried... | 11:02 |
| ddaa | and suspend to ram works fine | 11:02 |
| carlos | ddaa: yeah, I have the same problem... but it used to work ;-) | 11:04 |
| carlos | and i hope it will work again at some point | 11:05 |
| ddaa | think the distro guys could use some hardware | 11:05 |
| ddaa | I also had a regression in firegl accel spport in the radeon driver, needed to use the fglrx crap to get it back :( | 11:06 |
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| mpt_ | SteveA, yo | 11:19 |
| SteveA | hello mpt_ | 11:20 |
| SteveA | are you around for a voice call, or done for the day? | 11:21 |
| mpt_ | SteveA, a voice call would be good, since this'll be the last chance for a couple of weeks | 11:22 |
| SteveA | okay, let's do it | 11:22 |
| mpt_ | ok, brb | 11:22 |
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| === sivang -> back | ||
| sivang | ddaa: using rocketfuel-get should still be okay for getting the knitted checkout? as its just rsync out, should not be affected by it right? | 11:50 |
| ddaa | I do not use rocketfuel-get | 11:51 |
| sivang | ah | 11:51 |
| ddaa | but if it uses rsync, it should give you the same branch | 11:51 |
| ddaa | (a checkout is a different thing) | 11:51 |
| sivang | yes | 11:51 |
| carlos | jamesh: hi, do you owe me a review.... how's it going? | 11:52 |
| carlos | sivang: yeah, it should work. I use it and it works ;-) | 11:53 |
| carlos | sivang: first time will take a lot of time because the changes are huge | 11:53 |
| sivang | carlos: yes, almost like a new checkout probably :) | 11:55 |
| carlos | sivang: I guess | 11:56 |
| sivang | at least I'm downloading at 190KB/s , my net connection has stabilized a bit | 11:58 |
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| stub | SteveA: Do I need to look into that SQLObject permissions thing? | 12:26 |
| ddaa | yay, third cscvs merge in 24 hours sent :) | 12:26 |
| stub | ddaa: I killed your last one maybe three hours ago - there was a hung 'nc' process. Seemed like old times ;) | 12:30 |
| ddaa | well, it succeeded | 12:30 |
| ddaa | it's the same old cvs server spawning crap | 12:31 |
| SteveA | stub: if it's something you can fix, then sure. be nice to know what caused the problem. | 12:31 |
| stub | Wow... must have just been blocked waiting for all the children to be reaped, and killing the process unblocked it. | 12:31 |
| stub | SteveA: I might fix it, or I might make it worse. Imagine lifeless as the technician and me a monkey with a large wrench to belt things with. | 12:32 |
| ddaa | something about CVS sucking on cosmic magnitudes IIRC | 12:32 |
| stub | SteveA: I have no hope of determining the cause | 12:32 |
| SteveA | stub: whatever... i hope lifeless will get time to look into it when he arrives in london | 12:32 |
| SteveA | i don't think it is causing a serious problem now | 12:33 |
| stub | ok. if it isn't blocking I'll leave it. | 12:33 |
| ddaa | or ask lifeless to stop using that paranoid umask of his on chinstrap | 12:33 |
| SteveA | umask? | 12:33 |
| SteveA | that reminds me of an ubuntu logo idea someone came up with | 12:34 |
| ddaa | IIRC his DC accounts have a umask looking like 077 | 12:34 |
| ddaa | which caused me no end of grief back when we needed to work on the same files | 12:35 |
| ddaa | but maybe I'm just completely off the mark | 12:35 |
| mpt | Wow, why is PQM taking so long | 12:37 |
| ddaa | stub: if the nc hangs keep causing problems, the issue is the local pserver spawning in the cscvs test suite. But I have no off-hand idea how to fix it. | 12:38 |
| ddaa | I remember looking at it in the past and concluding that it just was not fixable | 12:38 |
| SteveA | i'm unhappy about cscvs testsuite flakiness blocking launchpad commits to pqm | 12:38 |
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| ddaa | SteveA: isn't pqm supposed to kill test suite runs that make no progress? | 12:39 |
| ddaa | that would mitigate that sort of issue | 12:40 |
| SteveA | i know that the idea has been discussed | 12:40 |
| SteveA | but i don't believe it does so right now | 12:40 |
| SteveA | is it possible to disable the specific cscvs tests that are causing this problem? | 12:40 |
| ddaa | Dunno off-hand. That might be a testing infrastructure that's needed by a lot of important tests. | 12:41 |
| ddaa | At least, that's needed to test the native pserver client implementation | 12:42 |
| ddaa | which is like a very critical piece of code | 12:42 |
| SteveA | is it tested on every launchpad commit to pqm? | 12:42 |
| ddaa | Supposedly. | 12:42 |
| SteveA | yet, the pserver client is independent of launchpad | 12:42 |
| SteveA | entirely so | 12:42 |
| ddaa | yes | 12:43 |
| ddaa | well | 12:43 |
| SteveA | so, let's have that *not tested* on launchpad commits | 12:43 |
| ddaa | not entirely | 12:43 |
| ddaa | it's dependent on things like symlinks in ./lib | 12:43 |
| ddaa | but nothing major | 12:43 |
| SteveA | it is dependent on no rogue "rm -rf /" in the launchpad code | 12:44 |
| SteveA | ddaa: are you able to make it so that the pserver client is not tested when we commit to launchpad? | 12:44 |
| SteveA | yet it is still tested when its code and code it actually depends on are altered | 12:45 |
| ddaa | that would require some action from lifeless | 12:45 |
| ddaa | in altering the pqm config | 12:45 |
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| ddaa | also, I think you t | 12:45 |
| ddaa | should discuss the issue with him, since he knows the code | 12:45 |
| ddaa | so he has a handle on both ends of the problem | 12:46 |
| SteveA | okay. please disable these cscvs tests for now. | 12:46 |
| SteveA | they are causing an immediate problem with all other launchpad developers | 12:46 |
| ddaa | okay, I'll look at how to separate them out of the main test suite | 12:46 |
| SteveA | tests are good. but in order to be enabled, they must not cause a bad effect on the rest of the processes, particularly, they must not have any effect on stuff they don't depend on | 12:46 |
| SteveA | thanks ddaa | 12:47 |
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| ddaa | would be nice if unittest grokked skipped tests :/ | 01:01 |
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| === SteveA --> lunch | ||
| malcc | kiko, BjornT: Ping? | 01:23 |
| BjornT | hi malcc | 01:23 |
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| malcc | BjornT: I'm hoping to get a review today on malcolmcleaton/launchpad/soyuz-pagetests-update, SteveA is tied up and suggested one of you guys might be able to help | 01:24 |
| BjornT | malcc: hmm, i don't think i have time to do it today. i'm on vacation today, and i have some other things planned. i'd be happy to do it tomorrow, though. | 01:27 |
| malcc | BjornT: Thanks, I'll come back tomorrow if I still need someone. | 01:27 |
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| ddaa | SteveA: I think I can actually fix the problem with a trivial patch | 01:39 |
| ddaa | the nc invokation is used to setup a network-listening cvs server, needed for the tests that test that the native client can actually setup a TCP connection, as opposed to the protocol tests that pipe to a local server (which already has TERM-then-KILL cleanup, that was needed in the past) | 01:42 |
| ddaa | There's a wait in the code to let the test suite sleep some time until nc had the time to run. I think the breakage happens when the sleep is too short and the connection attempt fails, then nc sits waiting for a connection, and the test suite sits waiting for nc. | 01:43 |
| ddaa | the nc command looks like "nc -l -p 2401 -e path-to-server-script" | 01:44 |
| ddaa | adding a "-w 60" in here should prevent the lock up, nc sees no network activity for 60 seconds, it will terminate | 01:44 |
| doko_ | carlos: ping | 01:50 |
| carlos | doko_: pong | 01:50 |
| doko_ | carlos: can we look at the OOo translations next Tuesday afternoon? | 01:51 |
| carlos | look for any possible problem? | 01:51 |
| carlos | sure | 01:51 |
| carlos | doko_: what time? | 01:53 |
| doko_ | carlos: after your fiesta^Wlunch? | 01:54 |
| carlos | :-P | 01:54 |
| carlos | ok | 01:54 |
| doko_ | fine, which time? | 01:55 |
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| Yannig | Hello everybody :) | 02:04 |
| carlos | doko_: 14:00 UTC | 02:06 |
| carlos | Yannig: hi | 02:06 |
| doko_ | carlos: ok | 02:07 |
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| stub | Thats twice in a row it looks like pqm completed but blocked waiting for one last nc process to die | 02:28 |
| ddaa | I'm on it | 02:29 |
| ddaa | There's also an obvious bug in the process reaping code | 02:29 |
| stub | Yup. | 02:29 |
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| === carlos -> lunch | ||
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| SteveA | re | 02:59 |
| === bradb wakes up | ||
| mdz | cprov: as part of the edgy test, did you do any dapper-updates uploads? | 03:00 |
| mdz | cprov: we'll have several to do shortly after the release | 03:00 |
| ddaa | anybody remembers the magic python to quote file names in shell scripts? | 03:01 |
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| cprov | mdz: no, but should work as we have breezy-updates currently | 03:01 |
| cprov | mdz: send me one of them, I can process it right now | 03:02 |
| ddaa | another silly question, is there an reliable way of telling that a process is listening to a port without actually opening a connection? | 03:16 |
| malcc | I think lsof will tell you, but I don't remember the exact dead chickens | 03:17 |
| ddaa | malcc: I mean, in a programmtic way that might get through into a test suite in rocketfuel | 03:17 |
| malcc | malcc: Oh :( | 03:18 |
| malcc | ddaa: Oh :( | 03:18 |
| malcc | malcc: Why are you talking to yourself you idiot? | 03:18 |
| ddaa | the specific problem is starting a nc-based server and having to wait until nc has started listening | 03:18 |
| ddaa | if we connect an close the connection, we have consumed the server | 03:19 |
| ddaa | and we cannot use the server script to signal us, because it's only execed after nc has received a connection | 03:19 |
| ddaa | I got it | 03:20 |
| ddaa | nc -l -p 1234 -v | 03:20 |
| ddaa | then read on stderr | 03:20 |
| ddaa | when it is actually listening, it will tell us | 03:21 |
| mdz | cprov: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/dapper-updates/ | 03:23 |
| mdz | bradb: ubuntu-security is subscribed to this bug via one or more of its duplicates: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/43012 | 03:24 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 43012 in ubiquity "crash creating partman question dialog" [Major,Fix released] | 03:24 |
| mdz | bradb: how do I find out which one and fix it? | 03:24 |
| bradb | mdz: there's no automatic way. you'd have to click each dupe in the dupes portlet to find out. but teams can't be unsubscribed from bugs, unfortunately. | 03:24 |
| bradb | mdz: i'm curious, why does ubuntu-security not want to be subscribed to the dupe target? | 03:25 |
| cprov | ddaa: why not the usual approach ? if you want to test a server, probe it with the client. Not sure if your goal is to test the system "bind" or other system connection framework. | 03:25 |
| cprov | mdz: ok | 03:25 |
| ddaa | cprov: because it does not work there | 03:26 |
| === bradb guesses it was a non-security security bug or something | ||
| ddaa | ddaa: we are setting up cvs pserver in the test suite using nc | 03:26 |
| ddaa | cprov:: we are setting up cvs pserver in the test suite using nc | 03:26 |
| cprov | ddaa: oops, then you make your point. | 03:26 |
| ddaa | to test that our native client can establish a TCP connection | 03:27 |
| ddaa | so it's a single shot gun | 03:27 |
| ddaa | is somebody available to review the patch to stop the cscvs test suite from blocking pqm? | 03:28 |
| cprov | ddaa: yes, i guess the popen('nc') can, at least, probe something is listening the socket in question, however doesn't ensure things will work as expected. | 03:29 |
| ddaa | popen | 03:29 |
| ddaa | live in the 21st century | 03:29 |
| ddaa | use subprocess :) | 03:29 |
| mdz | bradb: the bug has nothing to do with security | 03:30 |
| ddaa | nah, I got it, we needed nc to somehow signal us once it's listening, and the -v option does just that | 03:30 |
| mdz | bradb: they can be unsubscribed via the mail interface, which you can see in the comments I tried to do, but I didn't realize it was implicitly subscribed | 03:30 |
| mdz | bradb: perhaps unsubscribing a team should walk the duplicates and unsubscribe there as well? | 03:31 |
| === bradb didn't know you could unsubscribe others via the email UI. that's sort of a bug, maybe. as for a solution to this specific problem, i'll have to put some thought into it. | ||
| mdz | bradb: when we are inconvenienced by a bug for months, and then discover a workaround, it is discouraging for that workaround to be referred to as a bug :-P | 03:34 |
| cprov | mdz: works, https://dogfood.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+queue | 03:35 |
| mdz | cprov: built and published already? | 03:37 |
| bradb | mdz: it's kind of a bug, IMHO, but my initial thought is that both the web ui and the email ui should allow you to unsubscribe yourself or teams of which you're a member, like the bug contacts ui. | 03:37 |
| mdz | bradb: I'm a member of the security team | 03:37 |
| cprov | ddaa: popen() was just to save types, however reliying on 'nc' syscall for test is a more last century thing than popen ;) | 03:37 |
| ddaa | give me a better way to set up a TCP-listening cvs pserver | 03:38 |
| cprov | mdz: not so fast, it's only in NEW, but should flow correctly | 03:39 |
| ddaa | cprov: and it's not a syscall, it's the nc CLI :) | 03:39 |
| mdz | cprov: why new, is the archive data on dogfood old? | 03:40 |
| cprov | ddaa: ohh another last century feature, pserver ... nevermind, do whatever you need to do | 03:40 |
| cprov | mdz: it's a 18th May copy | 03:40 |
| ddaa | cprov: you're right | 03:40 |
| ddaa | I'll drop cvs support in cscvs | 03:41 |
| ddaa | who cares about that old stuff anyway? | 03:41 |
| cprov | ddaa: you started it by blaming popen, remember ? okay, let's stop the noise | 03:45 |
| mdz | cprov: how do we open dapper-updates? | 03:50 |
| mdz | cprov: (in production) | 03:51 |
| mdz | or is it open already? | 03:51 |
| cprov | mdz: by releasing dapper (setting dapper state to released) | 03:51 |
| mdz | cprov: we can't do it earlier? | 03:51 |
| cprov | mdz: let me check, probably by setting it to frozen | 03:52 |
| ddaa | SteveA: nc hang bugfix for review: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileItA9m9.html | 03:54 |
| cprov | mdz: no, currently you can't, EXPERIMENTAL, DEVELOPMENT and FROZEN are considered open, | 03:54 |
| cprov | mdz: so you can't upload for UPDATES & SECURITY in a opened release. | 03:55 |
| cprov | mdz: you can try to fix it for next releases (for this is too late I guess), adding an intermediate state, but I'm not sure about the use-case, can you describe it to me ? | 03:56 |
| cprov | mdz: why can't we ship the changes that we alredy have in RELEASE ? does it happen any release or is a special case for dapper ? | 03:57 |
| mdz | cprov: we have some fixes that only affect upgrades, and not CD images | 03:57 |
| spiv | ddaa: I see cscvs stuff merged finally -- was the difference just lifeless's change to the pqm config to use check_merge? | 03:58 |
| mdz | cprov: we want to put them into dapper-updates now, rather than waiting until after we release CD images, so they have time to build etc. | 03:58 |
| mdz | and are ready when we put out the release announcement | 03:58 |
| cprov | mdz: I see | 03:58 |
| ddaa | spiv: yes, and some admin action to kill runaway processes created by the cscvs test suite... | 03:59 |
| spiv | ddaa: hence this change involving nc? | 03:59 |
| ddaa | spiv: yup | 03:59 |
| ddaa | spiv: SteveA wants me to disable some of the tests, but I think I can just fix the problem | 03:59 |
| ddaa | needed to have a closer look and actually read man nc | 04:00 |
| cprov | mdz: pockets concept isn't able to model such workflow as well, maybe it's an extra reason to change it soon | 04:00 |
| spiv | So long as the sourcecode/* checks are generally run, I don't care how it's fixed ;) | 04:00 |
| cprov | mdz: I'll add a note about this issue to be discussed in Paris, unfortunatelly it's the best we can do right now | 04:01 |
| SteveA | ddaa: in the mid-term, i want better test dependencies | 04:03 |
| SteveA | so that we're running the tests that make best sense for a given merge to pqm | 04:03 |
| ddaa | running all the tests all the time is a feature | 04:03 |
| ddaa | as it allows quickly catching when environment changes break some rarely modified code | 04:03 |
| SteveA | it's a misfeature | 04:04 |
| SteveA | if you're concerned about rarely modified code like that, then a special cron-job should submit requests to pqm weekly to test it | 04:04 |
| SteveA | but it shouldn't burden everyone with testing the code all the time, "just in case" | 04:04 |
| ddaa | I punt to lifeless | 04:05 |
| kiko | malcc, how may I help you? | 04:05 |
| ddaa | nothing in cscvs depends on launchpad by design | 04:05 |
| ddaa | in the same way as nothing in pybaz, or importd, or a number of third party libraries | 04:06 |
| malcc | kiko: It's ok, the ping was for a quick review but SteveA took it on | 04:06 |
| mdz | cprov: ok, thanks | 04:15 |
| ddaa | stub: it looks like pqm needs a gentle nudge again | 04:16 |
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| ddaa | elmo: pqm ping | 04:33 |
| kiko | hey spiv: is there a way to pdb-step through a failing test | 04:42 |
| kiko | ? | 04:42 |
| kiko | in sqlobject? | 04:42 |
| spiv | kiko: with py.test? probably. | 04:42 |
| kiko | oh, --pdb | 04:42 |
| elmo | ddaa: ? | 04:42 |
| kiko | spiv, do you have a moment for a drive-by sqlobject review? | 04:42 |
| spiv | Does putting "import pdb; pdb.set_trace()" not work? ;) | 04:42 |
| ddaa | elmo: pqm looks like it's stuck | 04:43 |
| spiv | kiko: sure. | 04:43 |
| ddaa | can you have a look and tell us what you do? | 04:43 |
| elmo | killed the nc | 04:43 |
| ddaa | elmo: thank you, it's unstuck now | 04:44 |
| ddaa | there's a patch in the queue that should tame those rogue nc | 04:45 |
| stub | beat me | 04:52 |
| kiko | spiv, can you explain to me how the "implicit ID column" works in SQLObject? | 04:56 |
| spiv | kiko: you mean how you don't need to do "id = IntCol()"? | 04:57 |
| SteveA | stub: hello | 04:58 |
| kiko | spiv, exactly. it then appears that the "id" column is not present in _SO_columnDict | 04:58 |
| kiko | which forces me to hack around it :-( | 04:58 |
| stub | SteveA: hi | 04:58 |
| SteveA | stub: niemeyer just pointed out that newInteraction() gets a stack trace on every call, in upstream Zope 3 | 04:58 |
| SteveA | stub: removing this call should speed up ftests | 04:59 |
| SteveA | lib/zope/security/management.py, line 91 | 04:59 |
| spiv | kiko: right, it's special-cased pretty throughly. | 04:59 |
| SteveA | it is used only for debugging | 04:59 |
| kiko | spiv, isn't that the most stupid thing ever? | 04:59 |
| spiv | kiko: a bit, but it is pretty fundamental to how SQLObject works. | 05:00 |
| stub | Maybe. I suspect it won't be terribly noticeable though for launchpad as it will be overshadowed by db access, librarian startup/shutdown etc. | 05:00 |
| kiko | spiv, okay, I have a patch which does everything and includes icing on top | 05:00 |
| SteveA | stub: you gonna fix librarian startup/shutdown? | 05:00 |
| cprov | kiko: instareview on https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileX4bXAN.html ? | 05:00 |
| cprov | kiko: will ask dsilvers as well, maybe he remember some issue related to this | 05:01 |
| stub | SteveA: Eventually, yes. | 05:01 |
| SteveA | please sooner rather than later | 05:01 |
| SteveA | faster test runs speed *everyone* up | 05:01 |
| stub | SteveA: My trivial fix involving stopping invalids authenticating has grown with all the fallout. Shall I stick it in your review queue or general? | 05:05 |
| spiv | Using malone's email interface for an extended conversation makes for some pretty ridiculous subject lines! | 05:07 |
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| stub | spiv: You are allowed to edit the subject line ;) | 05:08 |
| kiko | spiv, that's a bug | 05:08 |
| kiko | spiv, btw: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filemuQjOv.html | 05:08 |
| kiko | spiv, fixes prejoin for SQLRJ and SQLMJ and also fixes orderBy the RIGHT way. | 05:08 |
| kiko | all tests pass | 05:08 |
| spiv | stub: I do, but further replies keep making it silly again anyway ;) | 05:08 |
| spiv | Not that "all tests pass" is much guarantee of anything with SQLObject... | 05:09 |
| SteveA | stub: i'm not going to look at it for a couple of days, if so | 05:10 |
| ddaa | spiv: there must be a missing negation somewhere in that sentence | 05:10 |
| stub | I'll move it then | 05:10 |
| ddaa | spiv: nevermind ;) | 05:10 |
| === ddaa leaves for the gym | ||
| kiko | spiv, well, orderBy is pretty fundamental I think. the special-cased if is stoopid | 05:11 |
| kiko | s/if/id | 05:11 |
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| malcc | Somebody remind me where I can view the pqm queue? | 05:13 |
| kiko | malcc, pqm.launchpad.net | 05:13 |
| ddaa | watch lynx --dump http://pqm.launchpad.net/ | 05:13 |
| ddaa | stick a -n 60 in there too | 05:14 |
| spiv | kiko: Rather than a sequence of "if self.feature_foo: results = results.feature_foo(self.feature_foo)", can we replace that with just passing some keyword args to the select results? | 05:14 |
| malcc | ddaa: Thanks | 05:14 |
| spiv | kiko: something like results.clone(prejoins=self.prejoins, orderBy=self.orderBy, ...) | 05:14 |
| spiv | kiko: I'm guessing the answer is "no, it's not quite as simple as it looks", but just in case... | 05:15 |
| kiko | spiv, i'll give it a go, let me check what the defaults are. | 05:16 |
| spiv | (I could almost imagine letting FooJoin take **kwargs that it will pass through to results.clone(**kwargs)) | 05:17 |
| kiko | okay but that's a larger change | 05:18 |
| kiko | yes, it works | 05:18 |
| spiv | If it's more complex, it's probably not worth it. | 05:18 |
| spiv | It's more likely to have unexpected side effects too. | 05:18 |
| spiv | Ah well. | 05:19 |
| spiv | kiko: I'll take the rest of this review to email. | 05:19 |
| kiko | spiv, I'll get you a new diff | 05:20 |
| spiv | Heh, ok. | 05:20 |
| kiko | spiv, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filetl1mio.html | 05:20 |
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| kiko | stub, please remember to clean up the dupe shipit queries so we can have a fresh oops report tomorrow | 05:45 |
| kiko | spiv, looking that bad? | 05:45 |
| spiv | kiko: nah, I spent a bit of time going "that's wrong! rant, edit, ... oh, it's actually only slightly wrong, delete that and put small comment there instead." | 05:46 |
| spiv | ;) | 05:46 |
| kiko | nothing gives you the same pleasure as deleting bits of horrible code | 05:47 |
| matsubara | kiko: stub already did it. I talked to him early today. | 05:48 |
| kiko | ah rock on | 05:49 |
| spiv | kiko: review sent | 05:56 |
| kiko | thanks! | 05:59 |
| spiv | kiko: btw, when prejoin stuff going to be submitted to upstream? | 06:07 |
| spiv | kiko: was it prejoins or something else jdahlin was going to push upstream? | 06:08 |
| kiko | prejoins, yes | 06:09 |
| kiko | he has some nokia work to finish off this week and then he was going to do it | 06:09 |
| spiv | Cool. | 06:10 |
| === bradb & # lunch | ||
| ddaa | the cscvs code makes pychecker crash... | 06:18 |
| ddaa | how ironic | 06:18 |
| spiv | ddaa: that's not as unusual as it should be :( | 06:19 |
| spiv | pyflakes is less flaky | 06:19 |
| ddaa | pyflakes does not report pep8 outrages | 06:19 |
| ddaa | btw, nice trick: python -tt `which pyflakes` file.py | 06:20 |
| ddaa | checks for flakes and tabs in one command | 06:20 |
| === ddaa leaves | ||
| elmo | pyflakes is outrageously useless | 06:21 |
| elmo | pylint is nice if you turn off some of the more random stylistic nitpicks | 06:21 |
| ddaa | python is all about stylistic nitpicks | 06:22 |
| spiv | And I'm sleepy! G'night all. | 06:22 |
| ddaa | the more you encode style into the law, the less people waste time arguing about style | 06:22 |
| ddaa | pep8 is a great feature of python | 06:22 |
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| kiko | spiv, I hate SQLObject's stupid styles crap | 06:39 |
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| clahey | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+translations | 07:11 |
| clahey | What does it mean "If Ubuntu is using launchpad for translations"? | 07:11 |
| clahey | Don't we know that it is? :) | 07:11 |
| clahey | kiko: So, we'd like to try out rosetta. | 07:25 |
| clahey | kiko: Do we just register as a product in launchpad, or is there an application process? | 07:26 |
| clahey | kiko: Oh, does Rosetta handle plural forms properly? | 07:28 |
| carlos | clahey: what do you want to try? | 07:28 |
| carlos | rosetta usability? or translate your own project? | 07:28 |
| clahey | carlos: So, I work on Democracy Player and we would like to translate our project. | 07:28 |
| carlos | clahey: yeah, the gettext plural forms | 07:28 |
| clahey | Excellent on plurals. | 07:28 |
| carlos | clahey: I guess it uses .po files and gettext, right? | 07:28 |
| clahey | So, I was hoping we could create a Rosetta project and then try out the interface for a day or two before we announce it to our people. | 07:28 |
| clahey | Yep. | 07:28 |
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| clahey | I know that it would show up on the Rosetta pages before we announced it. | 07:29 |
| carlos | clahey: you need to follow the instructions at wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ | 07:29 |
| clahey | Oh, if I upload a new .pot file, does it do the msgmerge, or should I do that by hand and just upload new copies of all of the translations? | 07:29 |
| carlos | clahey: we do the merge | 07:30 |
| carlos | all .po files are updated automatically when you upload a new .pot file | 07:30 |
| carlos | so translators will work always with latest strings | 07:30 |
| clahey | Excellent. | 07:31 |
| clahey | Do you happen to know what happens if we accidentally delete some strings from the pot file and add them back in the next upload? | 07:31 |
| carlos | no translation will be removed | 07:32 |
| carlos | they will be hidden until you upload the fixed .pot file again | 07:32 |
| clahey | Perfect. | 07:34 |
| clahey | Oh, so the policy page says that Rosetta translators will take care of the translations. | 07:34 |
| clahey | What about the people we have that want to translate our app (or have already started?) | 07:34 |
| clahey | Do we get to create accounts for them and mark them as official for our product? | 07:35 |
| carlos | clahey: we encorage people to use Ubuntu translators teams | 07:35 |
| carlos | clahey: they would join those teams | 07:35 |
| carlos | and translate your product | 07:36 |
| carlos | another option is leave it open to anyone to do translations | 07:36 |
| clahey | So we can't create accounts for them, but you could? | 07:36 |
| clahey | Ah, so either everyone can translate or only "Ubuntu translators team"? | 07:36 |
| carlos | well, anyone can create their own account | 07:36 |
| carlos | we have a third option | 07:36 |
| carlos | create translation teams for your product | 07:37 |
| carlos | but usually, we think is better to use Ubuntu teams | 07:37 |
| carlos | clahey: but you have the last word on it | 07:37 |
| carlos | you are the owner of your product | 07:37 |
| clahey | Can we mark our text as translatable by either the Ubuntu translation team or our own? | 07:38 |
| carlos | clahey: yes | 07:38 |
| carlos | clahey: adding Ubuntu teams as a subteam of yours | 07:38 |
| clahey | Cool. | 07:39 |
| clahey | We can decide on which of those to do. | 07:39 |
| clahey | I wonder if I can get a 639 code for Pig Latin. | 07:40 |
| carlos | clahey: our FAQ has documented what do you need to do to get such iso code | 07:41 |
| clahey | I'm filling out the form right now. | 07:42 |
| clahey | I just need to get a source of lots of documents. | 07:42 |
| clahey | Bible translation should help. | 07:44 |
| clahey | Anyway, that's a waste of time. | 07:44 |
| clahey | The FAQ isn't clear to me what to do once I've "mailed the upstream maintainers", which is of course, unnecessary as that's me. | 07:47 |
| clahey | Well, the team I'm on... | 07:47 |
| SteveA | hi. anyone want to hassle me before i make dinner and then get back into the hacking-zone ? | 07:52 |
| === kiko hassles SteveA | ||
| SteveA | do i know you? | 07:54 |
| kiko | you know who I am bru | 07:54 |
| clahey | carlos, kiko: How do I submit a project? Just register it under launchpad? | 07:54 |
| kiko | clahey, yes. it is likely what you want is products/+new | 07:55 |
| clahey | kiko: I'm asking one of my coworkers, Greg Opperman to take care of applying to that. Thanks for all the information. | 08:01 |
| kiko | no problem, feel free to ask further. | 08:02 |
| === bradb notes DistributionSourcePackage.__getitem__ is evil. /me sees why context/security_contactaldjasdfasd returns None. :) | ||
| kiko | DSP is evil incarnate | 08:07 |
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| clahey | kiko: Oh my. I just submitted to get pgl added to ISO 639. | 08:36 |
| kiko | pig latin? really now | 08:38 |
| clahey | kiko: I use it to test translation work and it would be helpful to me if it were an official language. | 08:38 |
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| bradb | matsubara: Is pqm hung on your branch? | 09:09 |
| matsubara | bradb: I don't know I sent it a couple of hours ago and I'm not following its progress | 09:09 |
| matsubara | bradb: doesn't seem to be hung | 09:09 |
| bradb | A couple, i.e. six :) | 09:10 |
| matsubara | hehe but there was like 5 others ahead of me on the queue | 09:10 |
| bradb | ok, that would make more sense | 09:11 |
| kiko | bradb, no, but the branch above it hung at the end | 09:11 |
| bradb | ah | 09:11 |
| kiko | and it is likely that it will hang as well | 09:11 |
| kiko | and it is likely that the branch after it too | 09:11 |
| kiko | and then maybe it will stop hanging | 09:11 |
| bradb | kiko: I just saw your comment on bug 47544. i already submitted the fix to pqm. | 09:17 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 47544 in malone "Malone reports that a package has no security contact...DUH!" [Normal,In progress] http://launchpad.net/bugs/47544 | 09:17 |
| bradb | it wasn't taken, so i took it | 09:18 |
| kiko | well done | 09:18 |
| bradb | interesting bzr message: bzr: WARNING: Conflict adding files to lib/canonical/rosetta. Not deleting. | 09:19 |
| bradb | "I can't add files to this directory. Not deleting." wha? | 09:20 |
| kiko | the message is bad | 09:20 |
| bradb | I know what it really means, of course, but that was an interesting contradiction. | 09:21 |
| kiko | I think it means that the directory was removed but you still have some ignored files in it. | 09:21 |
| bradb | yeah | 09:21 |
| clahey | kiko: Cool. I've uploaded our translations. They're just waiting for an admin. Very cool. | 09:29 |
| kiko | nice! carlos, jordi? can you take care of the upload? | 09:31 |
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| kiko | carlos, do you know why we have this horrible iterable API on POTemplate? | 09:57 |
| kiko | carlos, I find it so completely absurdly incomprehensible | 09:58 |
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| ddaa | elmo: Znarl: ping there's a nc in need of killing in pqm | 10:06 |
| ddaa | if the fix is right, it should be the last one | 10:08 |
| Znarl | ddaa : Done. | 10:09 |
| kiko | ddaa, hoping :) | 10:11 |
| ddaa | I'm sure other test suite will find creative ways of screwing up | 10:16 |
| carlos | kiko: hi, I'm back | 10:26 |
| carlos | kiko: are you talking about POTemplate and POTemplateSet ? | 10:26 |
| carlos | clahey: let me take a look... | 10:27 |
| kiko | POTemplate | 10:27 |
| carlos | POTemplate.__iter__ ? | 10:29 |
| kiko | yes | 10:29 |
| kiko | and __len__ | 10:29 |
| kiko | and __getitem__ | 10:29 |
| kiko | aka CRACK | 10:30 |
| ddaa | mmmmmh, crack | 10:32 |
| carlos | kiko: well... | 10:32 |
| SteveA | remember what leonard cohen said | 10:32 |
| SteveA | "give me crack and anal sex". but remember that he also said: | 10:32 |
| carlos | I don't think those are perfect, but could you give me some extra information about your point? | 10:32 |
| SteveA | "there's a crack in everything. that's how the light gets in" | 10:32 |
| ddaa | that's why banging your head against the walls helps you see the light? | 10:33 |
| kiko | carlos, use explicit method names. you should really only implement the iterable interface for stuff which is obviously iterable. | 10:34 |
| carlos | kiko: you iterate over all messages that a POTemplate has | 10:34 |
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| kiko | carlos, that's just not a good enough reason. :) | 10:34 |
| carlos | kiko: why? | 10:34 |
| mpt_ | Goooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders! | 10:35 |
| carlos | kiko: you can iterate a list | 10:35 |
| kiko | carlos, because unless there is a strong reason to /implement/ the iterable API, you shouldn't do it. | 10:35 |
| carlos | and a POTemplate is a list of messages... | 10:35 |
| kiko | and in this case, there is no strong reason. | 10:35 |
| SteveA | mpt_: hallo | 10:35 |
| kiko | you could reimplement it using normal methods | 10:35 |
| kiko | and you'd survive with no harm done | 10:35 |
| SteveA | mpt_: can i borrow you for some menus love? | 10:35 |
| carlos | kiko: could you explain me why there is no strong reason, or better, give me an example of what do you think it's an strong reason? | 10:36 |
| carlos | kiko: same thing for all __getitem__, __len__, __iter__, etc... | 10:36 |
| carlos | you can always do it with normal methods | 10:36 |
| SteveA | the main reason i can think of is | 10:37 |
| SteveA | the contract for a single method is simpler | 10:37 |
| SteveA | than remembering the interrelationships between these | 10:37 |
| carlos | kiko: I'm not saying that you are wrong, I just want that you are able to give me a reason about why should I change it | 10:38 |
| malcc | I would argue that a POTemplate is not "is" a list of messages, it "has" a list of messages, in terms of the is-a vs. has-a OO debate | 10:38 |
| carlos | SteveA, kiko: Following that fact (I think I agree on that), why or when should we use the __iter__ or __getitem__ methods then? | 10:39 |
| kiko | carlos, the convenience of using len() and iterating over it is less than the inconvenience of finding out it doesn't behave like a real iterable -- i.e. no append, indexed updating, etc. | 10:39 |
| kiko | carlos, it communicates a weak truth | 10:40 |
| SteveA | kiko: an iterable doesn't necessarily have these things | 10:40 |
| SteveA | that's python | 10:40 |
| kiko | I know | 10:40 |
| carlos | malcc: the format is just a list of messages, nothing more, even the metadata is a message, but with our implementation is not completely true... | 10:40 |
| SteveA | that's why we have interfaces and protocols | 10:40 |
| SteveA | so, i don't buy the "weak truth" argument | 10:41 |
| SteveA | i do buy malc's "is-a vs has-a" | 10:41 |
| carlos | kiko: so you are complaining about missing methods that are implied if we use __getitem__ and __iter__, right? | 10:41 |
| kiko | the potemplate is not just a box of strings | 10:41 |
| kiko | it is a pretty complex creature | 10:41 |
| kiko | saying it's an iterable implies it is a box of something | 10:41 |
| kiko | that's my gut feeling over it. | 10:42 |
| SteveA | kiko: that's the is-a vs has-a argument | 10:42 |
| kiko | in part yes. | 10:42 |
| kiko | in part what I'm saying is that iterables are/should be simple, because they imply they are simple containers, with fairly simple semantics. well, for some definition of fairly. :) | 10:43 |
| SteveA | the "missing methods" thing we can do *if* you write an interface for a "standard launchpad collection" | 10:43 |
| SteveA | and we start using that | 10:43 |
| kiko | I am not suggesting adding append() to POTemplate! | 10:43 |
| SteveA | i'll note that in my opinion, the Container protocol in Zope 3 causes more harm than good | 10:43 |
| SteveA | so, care needs to be taken in standardizing interfaces to collections | 10:43 |
| SteveA | i buy an argument of simplifying the API for potemplates etc. | 10:45 |
| carlos | kiko: anyway, switch to explicit methods should be easy, as you can see, those special methods call other explicit methods already (or most of them do it) | 10:45 |
| kiko | carlos, yeah, it should. | 10:45 |
| SteveA | i do not buy that iterables should be simple or that something being iterable implies it is a simple container with simple semantics | 10:45 |
| kiko | it's not a priority, just something I found very confusing when reading the code. | 10:45 |
| SteveA | although i'm willing to be convinced sometime | 10:46 |
| kiko | SteveA, I maintain that complex iterables are asking for trouble, in my heart. | 10:46 |
| carlos | what I'm not completely sure now is when should I use those special methods | 10:46 |
| kiko | carlos, rule of them, never unless the class /is/ a simple container. | 10:46 |
| carlos | because from what you told me, most of the time if you can use __iter__ is more or less when you have a list | 10:47 |
| carlos | or a set | 10:47 |
| kiko | right | 10:47 |
| SteveA | ain't true | 10:47 |
| carlos | in those cases, why don't just use a list or a set directly? | 10:47 |
| SteveA | there are lots of iterators in python that aren't lists or sets | 10:47 |
| SteveA | that's the point of having a separate iteration protocol in python | 10:47 |
| kiko | wait | 10:47 |
| SteveA | so that you can use things in for-loops directly | 10:47 |
| kiko | I'm not against returning iterators | 10:48 |
| kiko | or using generators | 10:48 |
| carlos | SteveA, kiko: would TranslationImportQueue be a valid candidate for __iter__ ? | 10:48 |
| kiko | but I am against a complex class implementing __iter__ | 10:48 |
| kiko | because the syntactic sugar isn't worth the confusion | 10:48 |
| kiko | IMO no | 10:48 |
| carlos | kiko: but that IS a list of elements | 10:49 |
| carlos | is a queue | 10:49 |
| carlos | and its only content is a set of elements | 10:49 |
| kiko | so it /has/ a set of elements | 10:49 |
| carlos | it fits the 'is-a' description that malcc was talking about | 10:49 |
| carlos | I'm really confused | 10:50 |
| SteveA | i think it is reasonable to __iter__ a queue | 10:50 |
| kiko | it also contains a truckload and a half of code and attributes that are not directly tied to its function as a queue. | 10:50 |
| kiko | it's not a simple queue | 10:50 |
| SteveA | a queue is a basic data type and so passes *everyone's* tests so far | 10:50 |
| kiko | not a knuth-style queue | 10:50 |
| malcc | Yes, but its function as a queue is clearly its main one, hence its name | 10:50 |
| malcc | I would be happy with a queue being iterable, unless there were issues in the ORM which made that painful | 10:50 |
| kiko | not really | 10:51 |
| kiko | the ORM is permissive! | 10:51 |
| SteveA | kiko: this is going to require a specification if you want to make this launchpad policy | 10:51 |
| kiko | anyway, I actually have a review to finish | 10:51 |
| SteveA | and i'll want the code review team to have input on it | 10:51 |
| kiko | I don't want to make it anything like that! | 10:51 |
| carlos | kiko: it has no attributes at all | 10:51 |
| carlos | kiko: only methods to operate its elements | 10:51 |
| SteveA | i think it make be worth doing, if you find such code confusing | 10:51 |
| kiko | carlos, errr, right I'm looking at TIQE :) | 10:51 |
| carlos | kiko: ;-) | 10:52 |
| kiko | SteveA, I started on this because I'm looking for len()s in our codebase that are triggering trouble, and len(self.potemplate) caught my eye | 10:52 |
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| kiko | but now I SWEAR I will go back to reviewing | 10:52 |
| kiko | DND | 10:52 |
| malcc | kiko: You don't want to go looking for trouble. You might find it :) | 10:52 |
| carlos | kiko: I would be happy removing len(self.potemplate) | 10:52 |
| carlos | I already removed len(self.pofile) | 10:53 |
| kiko | malcc, yeah, jesus, SteveA and you are supposed to be in bed at this point | 10:53 |
| carlos | because it was completely useless | 10:53 |
| kiko | it was a completely harmless rant! | 10:53 |
| SteveA | wem | 10:53 |
| SteveA | i'm sure malc is cute | 10:53 |
| SteveA | but i'm not takeing him to bed | 10:53 |
| === kiko shakes head | ||
| carlos | ;-) | 10:54 |
| SteveA | although jesus i'll make an exception for | 10:54 |
| SteveA | and i don't know this "yeah" character | 10:54 |
| kiko | fofl | 10:54 |
| carlos | clahey: hi, around? | 10:56 |
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| clahey | carlos: Yep. | 10:56 |
| clahey | Hi. | 10:56 |
| carlos | clahey: could you tell me the translation domain you are using for your application? | 10:57 |
| carlos | the one that gettext uses to find the translations | 10:57 |
| clahey | One sec. | 10:57 |
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| clahey | democracyplayer | 10:58 |
| clahey | Should I rename messages.pot | 10:58 |
| clahey | ? | 10:58 |
| carlos | no, don't worry | 10:58 |
| === ddaa is endlessly disturbed/amused with launchpad being so full of pot | ||
| ddaa | it's probably to help mellowing down after the crack... | 11:00 |
| carlos | clahey: ok, the .pot file is now imported and the .po files will be imported in 10 minutes | 11:02 |
| carlos | clahey: https://launchpad.net/products/democracy/trunk/+pots/democracyplayer/ | 11:02 |
| clahey | How would a user go about translating to a new language? | 11:03 |
| kiko | clahey, the list displayed is the user's default languages | 11:04 |
| kiko | so I see English, French, Georgian, Italian, Polish and pt_BR | 11:04 |
| carlos | clahey: they will get the option from their browser preferences/ languages spoken in their country or based on their preferences from https://launchpad.net/rosetta/prefs/ | 11:04 |
| clahey | Ah, that's why it lists the 4 languages we have translated already and Russian for me. | 11:05 |
| carlos | clahey: right | 11:06 |
| kiko | clahey, just because I'm your friend I've just added 10 pt_BR strings :) | 11:06 |
| clahey | :) | 11:07 |
| clahey | Excellent. :) | 11:08 |
| kiko | 109 strings is so easy | 11:08 |
| carlos | kiko: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileWKtqId.html | 11:09 |
| clahey | Yeah, there'll be more. | 11:09 |
| carlos | kiko: If you are not able to answer that question yourself... you wrote bad code or you don't remember the reason you wrote it that way ;-) | 11:09 |
| kiko | carlos, I don't even remember my birthday | 11:10 |
| carlos | kiko: :-P | 11:10 |
| carlos | kiko: if you don't have a batch object | 11:10 |
| carlos | you cannot return any link | 11:10 |
| carlos | so you return the empty string | 11:10 |
| carlos | that means that you use current url | 11:11 |
| carlos | so if you are at http://foo.bar.com/something | 11:11 |
| carlos | the link will be the same page | 11:11 |
| carlos | I think it makes sense and thus, I'm doing exactly the same thing the parent class is doing ;-) | 11:11 |
| carlos | kiko: anyway, I will answer that email and that concrete question tomorrow ;-) | 11:12 |
| carlos | kiko: thanks for the review | 11:13 |
| kiko | sure no problem at all | 11:13 |
| carlos | clahey: all files are imported now | 11:14 |
| carlos | clahey: and you are getting en_GB translations already... | 11:15 |
| clahey | carlos: I saw that. Crazy cool. | 11:15 |
| === carlos -> out | ||
| carlos | good night!! | 11:16 |
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| clahey | Do you guys run pofilter at all? | 12:00 |
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