[07:48] <msikma> I hate walking into #ubuntu and people randomly going "Windows sucks, Mac sucks, Ubuntu is god".
[07:50] <z_diver> seems to be lots of that everywhere you go these days.
[07:50] <z_diver> drains you
[07:50] <msikma> I'm fine with people exclaiming that they find Ubuntu much better, but there's never a reason to bash other people for using something else and proclaiming that their system is absolutely awful in every way.
[07:51] <msikma> I'm never going into #ubuntu again.
[07:53] <z_diver> sometimes you can get a good technical answer, never is a while and a half
[08:00] <msikma> There is no technical explanation for saying that the other major operating systems are "completely worthless and ugly and unstable and slow and [insert more words here] ".
[08:02] <z_diver> oh, yeah!  You're right.  I've seen it different at times.  I think they are bored and waiting to have a party if / when the website gets updated.
[08:08] <msikma> Speaking of the website, wasn't there a discussion going on about a front page redesign?
[08:09] <msikma> I think that it needs to. The current design, which seems to be different from what it's always been, is a little awkward.
[08:09] <z_diver> Yeah, I almost wrote to Henrik about that
[08:10] <z_diver> I like the new site, I think just because it's different.
[08:10] <msikma> Yeah, I like it too. The old one sported almost exclusively text. But I don't really agree with that navigational item at the top of the page on the front page.
[08:10] <z_diver> But I've noticed that Canonical is run off a similar template so I'm not sure how far they want to go.
[08:10] <msikma> And the way the text is below that seems a little misplaced. I'll make a quick suggestion later.
[08:11] <z_diver> There are a few mistakes too.
[08:11] <z_diver> the top header isn't quite aligned right
[08:12] <z_diver> Thought I should look into it but then I noticed even Canonical is like that.  do you see that?
[08:12] <msikma> It's just overall a little badly designed, I guess. The idea is nice, but it's inconsistent with itself.
[08:12] <msikma> I'm not sure what you mean. Canonical's front page looks like Ubuntu's old front page.
[08:13] <z_diver> after the ubunto logo there is a bit of a change on the bottom shadow of the beige header
[08:14] <z_diver> firefox shows it anyway.  I'll test some other browsers.
[08:16] <msikma> Ohh
[08:16] <msikma> Yeah, now I see it.
[08:16] <msikma> That's an error.
[08:16] <msikma> Heh, that's pretty bad.
[08:17] <z_diver> well, I just tested on Safari and on IE for mac.  Woao
[08:17] <z_diver> site completely disintegrates on ie mac
[08:18] <msikma> Seems they just forgot that color. It's embedded in the Ubuntu logo image. Internet Explorer 6.0 also shows it.
[08:18] <z_diver> not too big a deal because nobody uses it anymore but there is nothing for 1000 pixels or more under content.
[08:19] <z_diver> canonical has the same error.
[08:20] <z_diver> I'm sure it's just because of the recent updates.  I might let Henrik know but I'm sure he's got plenty to take care of atm.
[08:20] <msikma> You should probably mail it to the Ubuntu-art list and Ubuntu-devel list.
[08:21] <z_diver> On IE for Windows, how is the Ubutu nav menu to the right.  All one color?
[08:21] <z_diver> or is the header slightly darker?
[08:22] <z_diver> Header being the light grey colored "ubuntu" logo thing.
[08:22] <msikma> Looks fine. No gamma issues there.
[08:22] <z_diver> On all my mac browsers it's slightly off.
[08:22] <msikma> Hmm
[08:22] <msikma> Oh, wait, it IS off.
[08:22] <msikma> By a very slight amount.
[08:22] <z_diver> yeah
[08:23] <msikma> That must be the image itself rather than IE's faulty rendering of some of them.
[08:23] <z_diver> wesafe color issue or something.
[08:23] <z_diver> *websafe
[08:23] <msikma> Nah.
[08:23] <msikma> You don't even have to recognize web safe's existence.
[08:23] <msikma> Web safe colors is the most 1984 thing in web development ever.
[08:24] <z_diver> mac gamma then?
[08:24] <z_diver> can you see the dif in IE?
[08:25] <z_diver> I take that back, FF on mac is fine
[08:25] <msikma> I can see the difference in IE and not in Firefox. Must be a wrongfully set gamma value in the PNG.
[08:25] <msikma> Internet Explorer renders images darker if this is so.
[08:26] <z_diver> safari has it also
[08:27] <msikma> 2.0?
[08:27] <z_diver> 2.03
[08:37] <msikma> Well, I'm leaving for work.
[08:37] <z_diver> Interesting...  Camino is fine with the gamma issue on the menu AND it fine on the underline part.
[08:37] <msikma> See you around. I'll drop by this channel at work.
[08:38] <z_diver> ok
[08:38] <msikma> Really? Camino uses the same rendering as Firefox.
[08:38] <msikma> Both use the Gecko engine.
[08:38] <z_diver> yeah
[08:38] <msikma> Maybe it updated? Try hard refreshing in Firefox.
[08:38] <z_diver> but it has the line going all the way to the tabs
[08:38] <z_diver> then it stops and after the tabs./
[08:38] <msikma> I really gotta go now, though. I work on a Mac at work so I'll try to figure out if I can see that, too.
[08:38] <msikma> Later!
[08:41] <z_diver> Well, I"m out of here too.  Andy, look like you are alone.  Night!
[10:51] <onkarshinde> anybody talking here?
[11:03] <lapo> hi
[11:18] <onkarshinde> hi
[02:28] <msikma>  "Theme idol idea"? (Referring to the "That's a wrap everyone!" mail by Viper550 on the list)
[02:28] <msikma> That's got to be the worst idea I've ever heard.
[03:19] <lapo> msikma: I think there's too much talking at the moment, we'll need to do a point in the future choosing some common directions to follow and start from there
[03:20] <lapo> at the moment there's to much traffic on that ml, almost impossible to follow, well at least for me
[03:22] <lapo> bersace: I'm happy you're putting some love on the a sane scanning interface, if you need any help (my c skills are rotting so artistically speaking) feel free to ask
[03:24] <bersace> lapo: thanks :)
[03:24] <bersace> source code tree is rawly available at http://bersace.ath.cx/flegita
[03:24] <bersace> i'm currently building library
[03:24] <msikma> lapo: the worst thing that can happen is people ignoring any kind of planning we may come up with. V550 was just stating all kinds of things in that post, like "We need to choose a completely different color scheme for Edgy". Perhaps we must, but what position is he in to say whether we should?
[03:25] <bersace> lapo: just put your comment at http://live.gnome.org/GnomeScanning
[03:25] <bersace> i really need external point of view in order to design rocking UI !
[03:28] <lapo> you should ask mpt about gui design
[03:31] <lapo> msikma: I think a meeting is required
[03:32] <msikma> Indeed.
[03:32] <msikma> If we're getting feedback from a lot of people soon, we might want to wait for that.
[03:32] <lapo> msikma: regarding colors, I think the colors ubuntu is using are quite bad, but kinda unique so I'm fine with them, and I think changing them all is really a dumb choice
[03:33] <msikma> I think that changing them simply "because they need to be different" isn't a valid argument.
[03:33] <lapo> yeah
[03:33] <msikma> Maybe we do need to completely change them around, I don't know. But not for this reason.
[03:33] <msikma> (I don't think we do, by the way.)
[03:34] <lapo> I'm more for evolution then revolution
[03:35] <msikma> Me too.
[03:35] <msikma> I also wonder what Julian is talking about when he mentions that Mac OS users are "_begging_" Apple to "replace the Finder".
[03:36] <msikma> I've never heard of that. Sounds like weasel words to me.
[03:50] <bersace> lapo: mpt ?
[03:54] <lapo> bersace: he is a gui designer he usually hang on #ubuntu-deskop
[03:54] <bersace> lapo: thx
[03:59] <bersace> We may get inspired by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam
[04:09] <defunkt> i can help with any graphics if need be
[04:40] <msikma> I seriously wonder what Julian meant when he said that people are begging Apple to replace the Finder. I've really never heard of that. I don't even know how to respond to that particular thing in his mail.
[04:59] <lapo> I think the vast majority of apple users doesn't even know what the finder is :-)
[05:05] <msikma> Oh, I'm sure they know what the Finder is, but I doubt that they really think of it that critically. It's just "the system".
[05:05] <msikma> But I think that Mac OS users are generally a little more computer-savvy. I have no doubt that hardly anybody knows what Explorer is, though.
[05:06] <msikma> Huge mail sent to art list... I still hope that it won't spawn a massive debate.
[05:07] <msikma> blah.
[05:07] <msikma> I only just sent the first response and already I don't feel good about it.
[05:08] <defunkt> so what has the artwork team been doing for ubuntu...like specifics
[05:09] <lapo> defunkt: arguing on the mailing list atm :-)
[05:09] <defunkt> whats wrong with the mailing list?
[05:09] <lapo> too much traffic
[05:09] <defunkt> ah
[05:13] <lapo> nice email msikma
[05:13] <lapo> a fully agree
[05:13] <lapo> I
[05:13] <msikma> Yeah, the mailing list is a little high traffic. I'm going to be gone for the weekend on a family trip, and I probably won't be able to check my mail, and I fear for when I get back :)
[05:14] <msikma> But I'll try to smuggle my laptop along
[05:14] <msikma> Also, thanks.
[05:21] <troy_s> But I think that Mac OS users are generally a little more computer-savvy. -- that's completely incorrect.  Mac tries to market to folks who know nothing about computers.
[05:22] <troy_s> defunct:  Paris is going to lead to some concrete goals.  From there, it will be documented on the wiki.
[05:26] <troy_s> defunkt:  due to a lack of cohesive structure, mark has ended up dumping a large chunk of what an art team should handle back into canonical's hands.  of course, if everyone doesn't pitch in and do a little work, probably not.
[05:28] <defunkt> ok awesome
[05:28] <defunkt> well if i can do anything, please let me know
[05:28] <defunkt> i have to go to lunch tho, bbiaf
[06:05] <msikma> troy_s: they do, but mostly in the context of the iPod, I think. But I don't know for sure because almost all designers I meet use Macs, as well as most other people involved in the creative chain. They're a little more tech-savvy.
[06:22] <msikma> Well, I'm gonna quit, see you all when I get home.
[06:22] <msikma> Damn, I worked... 10:30 hours today.
[06:22] <msikma> Oh well.
[06:22] <msikma> Bye
[07:29] <jd_miam> (hi)
[07:29] <defunkt> howdy
[11:33] <MiniJames> hey
[11:33] <MiniJames> Congrats on the launch ;)