[12:04] mdke, I am going to deactivate anybody I don't know with a comment to email me [12:04] that guy is just collecting teams, surely! he has almost as many as Bluekuja [12:04] good plan [12:04] how do I change the ownership to myself? [12:04] I have no idea [12:04] let's bug kiko or someone [12:06] oh man, wiki LP stuff is nuts [12:07] lots of people have wiki in their LP ID [12:07] and the wiki team is just wikiteam, not ubuntu-wiki (which is "owned" by somebody else) [12:08] I should change the wiki team to ubuntu-wiki [12:08] already taken though [12:09] eh? [12:09] blimey [12:09] there is somebody at ubuntu-wiki [12:10] yeah [12:11] maybe ubuntu-supa-dupa-wiki ? === mpt_ [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:13] mdke, I like collecting teams. Besides, is there any real harm? [12:13] Burgwork: no problem from me on wiki, I have no idea of your role in the marketing team [12:13] unless I get hit by a bus I have proven myself to be fairly relible [12:17] mdke: wrt to tagging pages for the move, what about a workflow page that is linked to from a doc? [12:17] does the link stay intact? [12:18] and should I move the workflow page? [12:18] LaserJock: example? [12:19] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Worksheet is linked to from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook [12:19] up to you [12:19] I mean the Worksheet page is obviously not documentation, but it is used for WIP docs [12:19] move it if you want. Yeah, links to non-docs from existing docs will break [12:20] either move it or fix the link to point at the spec [12:20] k [12:23] hmm, no jerome around [12:32] mdke, shall I deactivate Sean from teh doc team? === LaserJock is worried he will be deactivated :'( [12:33] LaserJock, I accept bribes ;) [12:33] hmm, $150 enough? [12:33] ;-) [12:33] rofl [12:34] LaserJock, have you received any patches from John Patrick Davies? [12:34] stupid meetings :/ [12:34] yes, once I believe [12:34] Laser_away, has he ever applied for svn rights? [12:34] he's a Kubuntu guy [12:34] I didn't think so [12:35] Burgwork: yeah. [12:35] ok, will do [12:35] what should I say? [12:35] lack of sustained contribution? [12:35] <- is really gone now === Burgwork realizes he almost falls under that [12:36] Burgwork: no, just inactive for a long time [12:36] Laser_away: when you will be back, I want to tell you some ideas about the organisation of the Packaging Guide [12:36] theCore: cool, I'll be done in 2 hrs [12:36] Laser_away: I will try to put them into the Wiki [12:37] theCore, mailing list is a probably a better place for discussion === theCore is a ML illettrate [12:39] mdke, did you get my query? === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt__ [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:04] mdke: pon g? === patwack [n=paddy@cpc2-blfs2-0-0-cust120.belf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Taim [n=taim@27.nwkn2.xdsl.nauticom.net] has joined #Ubuntu-Doc [02:24] theCore: still around? [02:24] LaserJock: yep [02:25] theCore: what did you have in mind? [02:25] LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide [02:27] hmm, yeah it would be good to start with the basica packaging stuff [02:27] and then move into different common packaging scenarios [02:28] bug fixing (i.e. how to do a debdiff) [02:28] LaserJock: yeah, back again to the scenarios :) [02:28] well, we might not call them that ;-) [02:28] /join irc, bug bddebian. Next scenario? [02:28] exactly [02:29] new upstream versions (i.e. making sure to -sa when building the source package) [02:29] sync/merges (better this time) [02:30] I really want to hit patching and debdiffing this time as those are things that a lot of MOTU wannabes do [02:30] maybe we can send a call for items wannabes want to see covered to -motu ML [02:30] when the freeze end, tomorrow? [02:31] wider coverage would be to ubuntu-users-announce, perhaps [02:31] LaserJock: also, we need to cover another aspect of packaging, personal packaging [02:31] yes [02:32] how to rebuild a package to get debugging symbols is a common one [02:32] the first time I touched a source package was to add readline support to gnuplot [02:32] just for personal use [02:32] LaserJock: I'm sure there's many admin that would love having an alternative to the common /usr/local [02:32] and don't tell anybody I did that, RMS might have my hide ;-) [02:33] we really, really, really need to consider discouraging the {ab,}use of checkinstall [02:33] people inevitably end up passing said packages around [02:33] crimsun: right, that's why I'd like to make an easy guide to doing it right [02:34] the first time I did the readline tweak on gnuplot I used checkinstall [02:34] but I didn't like it too much [02:34] unfortunately checkinstall in dapper is ... crippled (at least last I checked) [02:35] and then I found a little recipe that had what to change in debian/rules and then dpkg-buildpackage [02:35] it was really easy [02:37] theCore (and crimsun too if you want): ok, so rework that outline on Ubuntu Packaging Guide to what you would like to see for Edgy === poningru_ [n=poningru@ip24-250-215-175.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:46] bbl [03:08] he jsgotangco [03:08] what's up? [03:08] im having some .net crap at work [03:08] excellent === ajmitch spent a month coding for .net CF [03:09] im doing this in vb.net for an IVR project [03:09] ugh [03:09] at least I was doing C# [03:09] yeah [03:09] the mind boggles === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:12] it would have boggled more at non-dot-net vb [03:15] jsgotangco: you nintendo linky no worky [03:16] i will edit it [03:22] ive linked it elsewhere now (bbc article) [03:27] hmm, that sucks [03:27] muine no longer responds to multimedia keys === mpt [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=brian@S0106001150603f7d.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:52] Burgundavia, ping [03:52] Madpilot: poing [03:52] back on LiveCD - main install still FUBAR'd [03:53] does X start? [03:53] yes, but GDM wouldn't let me log in [03:53] I was able to log in to console, though [03:53] what does it say? [03:54] it looks like my network connection is fubar'd [03:54] hmm, in what way? [03:54] all of the network commands I tried (apt-get update, ping & wget) returned DNS resolving errors [03:54] ah [03:54] can you mount your / in the live cd? [03:54] the liveCD is able to get on the net as usual though, so it's not my actual connection... [03:55] yes [03:56] got both my regular partitions mounted - what am I looking for? [03:57] check your /etc/resolv.conf [03:57] Madpilot: lets move to #ubuntu-ca === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc === DBO [n=DBO@cpe-65-185-133-122.twmi.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lastnode__ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Bilange [n=Warbird@dsl-142-221.aei.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:29] is that the right channel for questions about the main ubuntu.com (updated) website? [05:29] Bilange: sure [05:29] Bilange: what is the issue? [05:30] if no one else reported it, theres a visual flaw in the new design... there is no shadow below the "tabs" div (called sisternav in the html source) [05:30] that is, on the latest FF ubuntu repos provides [05:30] I don't know if that is a visual flaw, but I see it [05:31] well, im not sure how I could say that, but thats just asthetics (sp?) [05:32] actually, there is no code at all to provide a shadow as far as I looked for it, so maybe that was just forgotten [05:32] 21 errors in validation [05:33] http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ubuntu.com [05:34] this gets worse when trying to load the main page under Ie6/Win98: javascript error popup :S [05:34] Burgundavia: I don't understand the root issue [05:34] LaserJock: what do you mean? [05:35] don't the docs keep sudo? [05:35] javascript error: "line 30 char 5, document.getElementById(...) has a Null value or isnt an object" [05:35] LaserJock: yes, but these are doc provided by vmware [05:36] Burgundavia: yeah, but you say we put a lot of effort in being consistent [05:36] LaserJock: yes, because about once a month I have to cleanup a doc on the wiki that says "first enable your root account" [05:37] right, I thought you were saying that you wanted to keep "enable your root account" [05:37] I must have misread [05:38] nope === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:57] Burgundavia: that's like the selinux developers complaining about docs that start off with 'first disable selinux' [05:57] when it's the buggy code at fault, not selinux :) [05:58] ouch [05:58] there are some things selinux policy disables on FC5 that apps just shouldn't do [05:59] perhaps they just understand the deeper intricacies of selinux and brush it off as a feature blocker :/ [05:59] s/just/just don't [05:59] understand? [05:59] right :) [05:59] it's comparable to docs telling people to make a system dir world-writable [05:59] ive seen a few php web apps that say explicity to turn it off [05:59] yeah [06:00] selinux got a really bad reputation due to FC2's strict policy [06:01] something Novell has capitalized on quite well [06:01] sure [06:01] but apparmor just doesn't cover things in nearly the same way [06:01] I think if Ubuntu jumps for SELinux and XGL, it will be interesting [06:01] each Novell and RH has a technology that is useless [06:01] there are people who want apparmour in edgy === jsgotangco looks at ajmitch on SELinux === robotgeek will never run xgl on his ppc box [06:02] robotgeek: a little too slow? [06:02] ajmitch: yeah, ati drivers , suck [06:03] id probably turn of wobbly windows [06:03] never going to buy another machine with a ati in it [06:04] jsgotangco: yes, one thing selinux lacks much of is documentation :) === lastnode__ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:06] we all hate bad documentation, lol === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:08] yeah, outdated docs are often worse than none at all [06:17] Burgundavia: you use epiphany, right? [06:17] robotgeek: nothing but [06:17] opening a new tab does not focus cursor in address bar [06:18] yep, long known bug [06:18] difficult to fix, because of the way mozilla is built [06:18] heh, why do i run into irritating bugs in whatever "integrated" browser i use [06:18] ff unconditionally focuses the address bar, as where as the epip people like to focus the fire text input bar if it is available === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:19] this is sometimes buggy, due to mozilla code, not epip [06:19] blank tabs even. you know a nice extension/hack to fix this? [06:20] nope [06:20] with konqueror, i ran into bugs which were "exotic" [06:20] file a bug [06:22] did that for Konq, no one else was able to confirm [06:32] how does one properly revert a wiki page change? [06:33] ajmitch: go to get info, click the revert link on the edit [06:33] apart from stripping out the offending text :) [06:33] ajmitch: click on more info, and select revvision and go [06:33] right, I'm not seeing the revert [06:33] ajmitch: page and edit? [06:33] DownloadEdubuntu [06:34] it's only someone adding 'doh' to it [06:34] nothing major, just stupid :) === ajmitch sees 'view raw print' in the actions column [06:34] ajmitch: do you see teh "Get Info: link? [06:34] yes, I'm on that page [06:35] click the on revert link one edit back [06:35] hm [06:35] looks like I'm logged out [06:35] strange [06:35] silly small fonts :) [06:35] ok, revert happens to show up when I'm using the other browser, which is logged in :) === highvolt1ge [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@host86-129-13-245.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@ip24-250-215-175.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=Madpilot@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:21] hi all [08:21] hi [08:22] blasted dist-upgrade... the k7 kernel currently in Dapper repos doesn't like either of my onboard net connections - I've got to use a LiveCD to get on the net... [08:24] ewww [08:24] yeah [08:24] I don't think you can use LiveCDs as CD-repos, can you? [08:25] I need a 386 kernel for a while [08:26] you can chroot into your dapper partition from your liveCD session then install that 386 kernel [08:27] but not really user friendly... [08:28] I was planning on grabbing the Install ISO tomorrow at my parents, burning that, and mounting it as a cd repo in Synaptic [08:33] you could also download the .deb manually for linux-image-...-386 and linux-restricted...-386 from archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool in the live session, burn them to a CD, or write them to your disk, and install manually using dpkg [08:33] ... [08:33] why didn't I think of that? === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:35] hi Burgundavia [08:35] hey === Madpilot watches #ubuntu going totally berserk... [08:45] why? [08:45] "is it here" messages? [08:45] yes [08:45] 898 people in #ubuntu right now [08:46] yay [08:53] are we placing bets again on how high it will go? :P === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === masterchief [n=lastnode@220.247.248.152] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:29] Madpilot, was 930-940 last night [09:30] Seveas: fun... [09:30] morning all [09:30] hey mdke [09:31] hello mdke [09:31] hey Madpilot, if I prepare a list of the books and languages we're going to put on lulu, will you be able to take charge of the covers? [09:31] bhuvan: hiya : [09:31] bhuvan: long time, so see [09:31] :) [09:31] Burgundavia, i use to be online and stay listening :) [09:32] mdke: sure, I've got some time this weekend, hopefully. [09:32] Madpilot: perfect, I'll do that soon then and we can get that sorted too :) [09:32] mdke: new-help.u.c is a new server or it's a virtual host in h.u.c ? [09:33] bhuvan: it's on one of the Ubuntu servers [09:33] same one as wiki.u.c. in fact [09:34] ok [09:35] i assume, we are going to migrate frozen pages from w.u.c to n-help.u.c and set edittable only by wikiteam members === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:36] no, all documentation from wiki.u is going to be moved to that server at help.ubuntu.com/community [09:36] and it will be editable as before [09:36] ok [09:36] mdke, i just started translating some stuff in rosetta. how does that work for docs? [09:37] lastnode: you can find docs at ubuntu-docs, kubuntu-docs, and xubuntu-docs. [09:37] mdke, so what's the purpose of n-help.u.c ? [09:37] mdke, mailing lists? [09:37] bhuvan: it will become help.u [09:38] lastnode: those are packages in rosetta [09:38] mdke, oh, right. [09:38] mdke, ok [09:38] also, is there a standard font to be used? [09:38] im using the (yet uncertified) unicode font for my language [09:39] lastnode: while translating? no... [09:39] mdke, im using Sinhala Unicode [09:39] ok. [09:39] mdke, can we schedule a team meeting to discuss documents for edgy and other stuff you/others may have ? [09:39] good idea [09:40] lastnode: listen, I have to go to work, if you have some more questions, mail ubuntu-translators and I will get back to you [09:40] mdke, ok, thanks :) [09:40] bye [09:41] bye [09:41] so, i'll update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda with what i have ... [09:41] it's been months since we had a docteam meeting [09:42] any input on date & time ? [09:42] Madpilot, yes [09:42] meetings, we don't have those [09:42] bah! who needs them! [09:42] :) [09:43] day jun 16 (fri) - will it work ? === bhuvan is going for lunch [09:50] nice, the frontpage of ubuntu.com has finally been updated [09:51] yep [09:54] yeah with a nice asian-guy for support (jbailey) [09:54] heh [09:55] the updated web site rocks [09:55] that it does [09:55] that menu thing makes things nice and easy to find [10:00] jsgotangco: is that jbaily? i always thought he was english :) [10:00] hehe [10:01] i also thought he had long hair too === jsgotangco grins === glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-62-245-208-121.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@59.92.50.49] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@59.92.61.28] has joined #ubuntu-doc === aanjhan_ [n=aanjhan@59.92.55.176] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ThiefOfBaghdad [n=aanjhan@59.92.45.98] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:02] apparently there are/were a lot of typos in the release notes for kubuntu, didn't realize that so i apologize [03:03] need to spell check my work better [03:03] also some don't like how it is worded :( wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDapperKnownProblems [03:04] yes, we've been asked to review the style [03:04] i wish the style was reviewed before release, the notes haven't changed "style" since at least flight3 or so [03:04] jjesse: we should invite you to the elite blatant-and-awkward LP team [03:05] sorry a little frustrated this morning [03:05] just that they been "finished" for what seems a couple of months and no one complained about it [03:05] mmm?? [03:06] The release notes (help:/kubuntu/krelease-notes/index.html) are full of typos ("Recomendations", "regulary", "preditctably", "Ubuquity", "seperate", etc.), read unprofessionally ("Wahoo a sweet new installer is available ...!!!!", "FREE of charge!!!!", etc.), and appear to be confused in other ways (a paragraph for "a sweet new installer" that talks about features in Breezy, and then a separate paragraph for Ubiquity which is the actual new installer). C [03:06] jjesse: it can't be helped, you were probably busy with work [03:06] real life takes preference over volunteer work [03:07] jsgotangco: no one told me [03:07] jjesse: that's a shame, even in kubuntu? [03:08] we actually wrote the edubuntu release annoucement in a 1 1/2 days [03:08] correct === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:09] you could probably ask Riddell for access to the kubuntu website to fix it up [03:09] (that's what we did for edubuntu using drupal) [03:09] well i'll rewrite them tonight and send them to riddell and the list to get included in dapper-updates, just frustrated that they were out there for so long and no one complained [03:10] yeah i can relate to that [03:35] jjesse: don't worry about it dude, it's no problem fixing them up [03:36] yeah [03:40] mdke: i know sorry just a little frustrated this morning for some reason [03:40] no worries [03:41] how's the wiki move going? [03:42] its happening? [03:47] jsgotangco: i don't know. i thought it was going to happen today. [03:52] grin on the official ubuntu release annoucnement under the book section they spelled my name wrong [03:52] http://www.ubuntu.com/news/606released [03:52] look for jonathan jessie :) [03:52] lol oh well === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === gtaylor [n=Squishy@130-127-66-32.lehotsky.clemson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc === gtaylor [n=Squishy@130-127-66-32.lehotsky.clemson.edu] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] [04:06] jjesse: what is the correct spelling? [04:06] no 'i' jesse [04:07] oh right, duh, hang on i'll fix it [04:08] grin thanks mgalvin [04:08] jjesse: np, it should be fixed now [04:08] i find that funny, at least my last name wasn't first which is another common mistake === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@59.92.40.237] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:09] people always say my last name glavin instead galvin b/c there is a baseball player tom glavin and people just have that name in their heads :-/ === kermitX_ [n=kermit@unaffiliated/cxg] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === motin [n=motin@84-217-6-95.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === joachim-n [n=joachim@ACCB9F69.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === orangehaw [n=baukekeu@h246196.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc === orangehaw [n=baukekeu@h246196.upc-h.chello.nl] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === archis [n=archis@unaffiliated/archis] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Gwaihir [n=Gwaihir@ppp-32-74.25-151.libero.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jd_ [n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@59.92.97.6] has joined #ubuntu-doc === aanjhan_ [n=aanjhan@59.92.52.149] has joined #ubuntu-doc === aanjhan__ [n=aanjhan@59.92.51.161] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@59.92.51.161] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:05] oh sweet, anybody seen Mark's blog [07:06] back to the installing software bit quickly, could we not use the same technique used in many books... standardize on using one command like apt or aptitude so that we can still copy paste AND also provide the link as we are doing now so that users who don't know how to use or don't want to use our standard can learn how to use something else [07:07] I suppose but we will have lots of issues with choosing apt-get vs. aptitude [07:07] or some other CLI package manager that comes around [07:08] well, we (jeff jerome and i) have been sticking with apt if that carries any weight at all === mgalvin is not trying to push one or the other [07:09] and on the kubuntu side we standarized on adept [07:09] time for beer indeed [07:09] well, after work :) [07:09] yeah, but there are people (we have one on the wiki) who will refuse to accept apt-get [07:09] and really there are advantages to aptitude [07:10] hmm, providing both would be silly i guess? [07:10] there are [07:10] yes, because the lines would be the same [07:10] it is so irritating that people can't just substitute in their desired one [07:10] apt-get install foo bar [07:10] or aptitude install foo bar [07:11] what drawbacks might aptitude have opposed to apt-get [07:11] ug, thats a management type question, eww, i feel dirty [07:11] I don't really know of any except it does install Recommended packages by default [07:11] but if you do aptitude -r install foo bar [07:12] it is essentiall the same [07:12] which isn't always correct [07:12] b/c of the diff btwn us and debian [07:12] lemme see if i can find an example, i know i have run into them [07:12] well, if maintainers used Recommends properly it probably wouldn't be much of a problem, but ... [07:13] true, yea a big but [07:13] anyway, aptitude is just a souped up apt-get [07:13] a lot of devs like it === highvoltage [n=Jono@mtngprs7.mtn.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:14] anyway, it really is quite similar to the emacs vs. vim battle [07:14] people get all hot about it but it really comes down to whatever you prefer and feel most comfortable with [07:14] LaserJock: what's that? [07:14] that's why I prefer that we not give a line [07:15] highvoltage: apt-get vs. aptitude in docs === mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:15] aaah [07:15] mgalvin: I started out with apt-get lines in the Packaging Guide and that was the first thing people complained about [07:15] i suggested a standardization route but anyway we go has pros and cons [07:15] I agree [07:15] ah [07:16] I personally like being able to cut-n-paste the lines from a guide [07:16] can't please everyone === mgalvin *shrugs* [07:16] yeah [07:17] so basically we make *everyone* a little mad so that we don't make significant amounts of people *really* mad ;-) [07:17] so we shoot ourselves in both feet, but we can still walk :) [07:18] exactly ;-) [07:18] apt-get in docs makes sense as it's the most accessible? vs aptitude/synaptic/adept [07:18] what is used, generally in doc, apt-get? [07:18] highvoltage: until recently yes [07:18] if Ubuntu did standarize around a package management it would be different [07:19] it depedns on ubuntu or kubuntu [07:19] for kubuntu the docs should refer to adept === kermitX_ prefers aptitude above all others, though. [07:19] maybe we should present this issue to the devs or the TB/CC? [07:19] they would be able to pick the standard [07:19] I don't think they will want to [07:19] because they themselves probably use different ones [07:20] don't know if it is even worth bothering them with at this point [07:20] i would think it's TB's responsibility to provide feedback [07:20] it's the TB's responsibilty to make decisions [07:20] didn't mdz post to the doc and devel mailing list a while back saying something along the lines of docteam should work closer to the tech team to make sure that all documentation is technically sounds? [07:20] if they don't feel that a decision needs to be made they won't touch it [07:20] s/sounds/sound [07:20] yea, they will likely want to not offend as well, but might have additional thoughts [07:20] ah, i see. [07:21] how boring of them :) [07:21] I think we could at least ask the TB if they think it is something that they would like to discuss [07:21] highvoltage is right that we need to work closely with the devs [07:21] can't hurt to ask [07:21] no === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:22] even if they could just give a bit of feedback, it would be nice. [07:22] highvoltage, yes, he did [07:22] indeed [07:22] it is mostly the wiki dcos [07:22] currently though, I think it is sort of nice the way we do it [07:23] apoligies for the confusion and ignorance on my part, but did the wiki move happen today? and was it scheduled for today? [07:23] yea, i only think about it because i work with, um, well, people i know prefer copy/paste [07:24] anyway, anyone object to at least presenting the issue to the TB [07:25] my only point would be that we should discuss it within the team and then have a cohesive spec or something to bring to the TB [07:25] mgalvin, what, how we talk about installation? you want to take that to the TB? === jenda [n=jenda@unaffiliated/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:26] Burgwork: he would like to ask the TB if we should standarize around a package manager, I think [07:26] mostly yes [07:27] Burgwork: i like how in books a standard method it followed and the other option methods are discussed elsewhere... [07:27] hmm [07:27] the problem is, what standard method? apt-get or synaptic? [07:27] and being able to copy paste commands is useful [07:27] for those who have commandline experience, yes [07:28] i was thinking a standard for the cli [07:28] not sure about the gui aspect [07:28] there are so many now, and g-a-i added another [07:28] that basically leads us down the path of recommending the CLI [07:28] i would think that it's synaptic, since ubuntu should allow users to do everything the gui way. but command line is important, you don't always have the luxury of a gui. either for servers, or for troubleshooting. [07:28]