[12:59] <Kyral> Is anyone else really annoyed with all the OMFG Dapper is coming out countdowns?
[01:03] <ajmitch> yes
[01:03] <ajmitch> very
[01:03] <Kyral> You wanna see me blow my lid, go to #ubuntuforums
[01:04] <ajmitch> no thanks
[01:04] <Kyral> good, because my BOFH is in full effect
[01:05] <ajmitch> I've got enough actual work to do to keep me busy for awhile
[01:05] <Kyral> Oh thats great, some idiot is threatening to report me
[01:06] <Kyral> yah I also have been working on this program for like the past week and it still doesn't work
[01:08] <crimsun> don't worry, it's never worth exploding over OMG $newVersion
[01:08] <crimsun> I just think of the poor kittens
[01:08] <Kyral> I got them back
[01:08] <crimsun> and our staggering bug reports
[01:08] <Kyral> I cat'd /dev/random to the channel :P
[01:09] <ajmitch> very mature
[01:09] <Kyral> Actually I did it to see if I could :P
[01:09] <ajmitch> even more mature..
[01:09] <ajmitch> there are plenty of things that can be done, that shouldn't
[01:09] <Kyral> I told you I was in a bad mood
[01:09] <ajmitch> then avoid irc
[01:16] <Kyral> Jeez, these guys are acting like the HURD went stable suddenly
[01:33] <ajmitch> except that it'll take a little while to do :)
[01:33] <Kyral> lol
[01:35] <ajmitch> might as well get in before the post-release rush on the datacentre
[01:35] <crimsun> you have a good 10 hours or so :-)
[01:36] <ajmitch> it'll take that long
[01:36] <ajmitch> 326 upgraded, 14 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[01:36] <ajmitch> Need to get 271MB of archives.
[01:37] <ajmitch> at ~50K/sev
[01:38] <Kyral> lol
[01:39] <ajmitch> this is why the server is getting moved
[01:40] <Kyral> I actually have to get around to putting the HURD on that old box I have...
[01:41] <ajmitch> why bother?
[01:41] <Kyral> You know what else to stick on a Pentium 1?
[01:41] <Kyral> that you got for free?
[01:41] <ajmitch> how much ram does it have?
[01:41] <Kyral> No idea
[01:42] <Kyral> I have never booted it lol
[01:42] <ajmitch> you'll probably need at *least* 64MB to use the Hurd in anyway
[01:42] <ajmitch> last I tried on an old box, it didn't even boot with 16MB
[03:02] <Toadstool> heya
[03:02] <ajmitch> hi
[03:02] <Toadstool> hi ajmitch
[03:03] <Toadstool> /me's kinda tired after a 26h hours without sleep "day" but heya ;)
[03:05] <Toadstool> otoh i feel like a moron when I see the real ubuntu devs work ^^
[03:07] <ajmitch> only 26 hours?
[03:08] <Toadstool> yep, and 5 days trip to Dublin which is a really nice place :)
[03:08] <ajmitch> heh
[03:12] <xhaker> omg #ubuntu is a mess right now.. too much traffic :P
[03:13] <xhaker> ajmitch do you know any disk managment utility that is capable of showing the location of the files on disk graphically or somthing
[03:14] <Toadstool> xhaker: you should have a look at #ubuntu-fr, 3AM and it's still crowded...
[03:14] <xhaker> i'm suspecting my dapper .isos are scattered through my disk
[03:14] <Toadstool> I've never seen that much people so late...
[03:14] <xhaker> i'm moving to the home partiton to see the effect..
[03:15] <xhaker> Toadstool: it's even later there
[03:15] <Toadstool> :)
[03:15] <xhaker> their +1 or +2 from me
[03:16] <Toadstool> wow :)
[03:16] <xhaker> they're as in "they are"
[03:17] <xhaker> i'm proving it's late here by doing kiddie spelling mistake
[03:17] <xhaker> s*
[03:17] <crimsun> we have another 8 hours or so to go
[03:17] <xhaker> crimsun: what's left?
[03:17] <crimsun> xhaker: the announcement
[03:18] <crimsun> only then will the chaos truly ensue
[03:18] <xhaker> i see kubuntu announcement is still being drafted out
[03:18] <xhaker> crimsum.. do you happen to know any utility that provides the feature i described earlier?
[03:19] <xhaker> i just want to see a general view of how my data is stored on the disk.. or maybe.. in how many chunks is some ISO split
[03:20] <xhaker> reminder: i will never use axel again
[03:21] <crimsun> xhaker: not off the top of my head
[03:22] <Toadstool> g'night everybody
[03:22] <xhaker> crimsun: would you think more than 40% fragmentation on a ext3 drive is bad?
[03:22] <xhaker> it must be.. rsync struggles
[03:24] <crimsun> yeah, that might be a bit much
[03:37] <ajmitch> you can't see how files are laid out in the disk since it's fs-independant
[03:37] <crimsun> ah yes, if it's at 90% that would be bad
[03:37] <crimsun> 90% full with 40% frag == yikes
[03:37] <xhaker> :(
[03:37] <ajmitch> scary
[03:38] <ajmitch> I've got a 93% full /usr/local
[03:38] <ajmitch> of course most of that is taken with a dd snapshot of an old disk
[03:38] <ajmitch> but it's a ~410GB logical volume
[03:39] <xhaker> i guess sharing a 45gb ext3 partition with windows(games OS) is not so smart
[03:39] <ajmitch> no, it's not
[03:39] <ajmitch> trusting windows to do the right thing with ext3 is asking a bit much
[03:39] <xhaker> it wouldn't be better using FAT
[03:40] <xhaker> Dump: 2918/5931008 files (39.0% non-contiguous), 7705161/11831863 blocks
[04:00] <ajmitch> xhaker: so that's a very empty filesystem
[04:01] <xhaker> it's non performant though
[04:01] <xhaker> i think the problem is that i downloaded the isos in 100 parts
[04:01] <xhaker> chunks, whatever
[04:01] <xhaker> using axel
[04:02] <xhaker> i thought it would alloc the space smarter
[04:02] <ajmitch> space allocation is something for the filesystem driver to do
[04:03] <ajmitch> if you wrote it on windows, wouldn't surprise me that the driver decides to fragment
[04:03] <xhaker> no.. wrote it on linux
[04:04] <xhaker> rsync takes 10 minutes to start in that partition
[04:04] <ajmitch> rsync does an md5sum of the image you're copying, iirc
[04:04] <ajmitch> hello bddebian
[04:05] <xhaker> ajmitch but it takes only 1min in this other partition
[04:05] <xhaker> it must be something related to file location
[04:05] <ajmitch> then it's broken
[04:05] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:05] <bddebian> Hi ajmitch
[04:30] <bmonty> ajmitch: have you had a chance to look at the Kerberos stuff I've been working on?
[04:31] <bddebian> Heya bmonty
[04:31] <bmonty> hi bddebian
[06:11] <turboSeX> has drake been released?
[06:12] <crimsun> no.
[06:12] <ajmitch> no.
[06:12] <turboSeX> any idea about what time?
[06:12] <ajmitch> turboSeX: when it's done
[06:13] <turboSeX> :)
[06:13] <crimsun> ajmitch: welcome to debian sarge ;-)
[06:13] <ajmitch> crimsun: hey etch *will* release this year
[06:14] <crimsun> true
[06:14] <ajmitch> it's even going to freeze soon :)
[06:14] <crimsun> maybe I should say, "welcome to duke nukem forever"
[06:14] <bddebian> haha
[06:14] <turboSeX> is it true etch will support xgl by default?
[06:14] <ajmitch> approved etch release goals...
[06:14] <ajmitch> > - SELinux support
[06:14] <ajmitch> > - pervasive ipv6 support
[06:15] <ajmitch> sweet :)
[06:15] <ajmitch> turboSeX: I don't know, why don't you ask them?
[06:15] <turboSeX> ajmitch: them??
[06:15] <ajmitch> etch == debian
[06:15] <turboSeX> ajmitch: are you not the them?
[06:15] <crimsun> etch? xgl? god that's nuts.
[06:15] <turboSeX> ajmitch: ohh, i wanted to say eft
[06:15] <turboSeX> ajmitch: that was my mistake, it was a confusion
[06:15] <ajmitch> *nothing* has been decided on for edgy
[06:16] <ajmitch> there are suggestions
[06:16] <turboSeX> ajmitch: i heard eft will be quite edgy (experimental), so will it support xgl?
[06:16] <turboSeX> i see
[06:16] <ajmitch> hey dholbach
[06:16] <ajmitch> how are you? :)
[06:16] <turboSeX> what about selinux in eft?
[06:16] <bddebian> Heya dholbach
[06:16] <ajmitch> turboSeX: maybe
[06:16] <turboSeX> is there any official eft channel?
[06:16] <ajmitch> no
[06:17] <dholbach> hey ajmitch, bddebian - hello everybody else
[06:17] <ajmitch> considering that we're all just finishing up getting dapper done, it's a little early for it
[06:18] <dholbach> and edgy will be VERY broken in the first days - muhuhauhuahahahaha
[06:18] <ajmitch> it'll be great!
[06:18] <Gloubiboulga> morning motu world
[06:18] <bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
[06:19] <Gloubiboulga> hey bddebian
[06:19] <ajmitch> dholbach: so do you have pet goals for edgy that you want to work on yet?
[06:20] <dholbach> ajmitch: lots of things to do, yeah
[06:20] <crimsun> daniel's going to fix all of apt-get.org, wooo!
[06:21] <ajmitch> yay!
[06:21] <bddebian> hehe
[06:21] <turboSeX> crimsun: was it worth the six weeks delay?
[06:21] <ajmitch> bddebian is going to fix all the malone bugs!
[06:21] <crimsun> turboSeX: to me? certainly.
[06:21] <crimsun> all of malone? rockin'!
[06:21] <bddebian> ajmitch: Suuure :-)
[06:21] <dholbach> turboSeX: ABSO *f.cking* lutely
[06:21] <turboSeX> crimsun: regarding features, or only bugfixes?
[06:21] <turboSeX> dholbach: i see
[06:21] <dholbach> ajmitch: gnome 2.15.x for Edgy, merge back with Debian (this is enough already) - catching up with 24967246246 of bug reports
[06:22] <ajmitch> crimsun: how about 1 drink for every bug bddebian fixes?
[06:22] <bddebian> w000t
[06:22] <ajmitch> dholbach: oh yes, I've got a large backlog of debian stuff to do
[06:22] <dholbach> ajmitch: I think we're going to get 2.14.x into dapper-updates and after that, there might be pet goals :)
[06:22] <ajmitch> and learning how to spell
[06:23] <ajmitch> hah
[06:23] <ajmitch> he loves you!
[06:23] <turboSeX> ajmitch: will selinux have some frontend?
[06:23] <ajmitch> turboSeX: what do you mean by frontend?
[06:23] <turboSeX> ajmitch: some control pannel which could simplify some administration tasks
[06:23] <dholbach> turboSeX: internationalisation, UI was improved during that time and other specifications finished and of course bugs fixed
[06:24] <dholbach> turboSeX: so it was worth it, even if we now have a shorter release cycle
[06:24] <ajmitch> iff you mean runtime options like boolean options, modular policy loading, then probably
[06:25] <turboSeX> which xorg does dapper support 7.0 or 7.1?
[06:25] <turboSeX> dholbach: yes, the release cycle will be three months shorter for eft than it was for drake
[06:26] <crimsun> 7.0.
[06:26] <ajmitch> 6 weeks, not 3 months
[06:26] <ajmitch> which is just a month & a half
[06:26] <crimsun> you know, whenever elmo begins a statement with "uh" I quake in my boots
[06:26] <ajmitch> yeah
[06:26] <ajmitch> I worry
[06:27] <ajmitch> he picked up a few universe packages that have crackful files in them
[06:27] <ajmitch> 1 of which I knew about but didn't have time to fix up
[06:27] <bddebian> crimsun: :-)
[06:27] <ajmitch> 06:41 < elmo> build/buildd/pointless-0.5/debian/pointless/usr/share/pointless/README universe/misc/pointless
[06:27] <ajmitch> 06:41 < elmo> build/buildd/python-4suite-0.99cvs20050418/4Suite/build/share/Dashboard/4ss-netscape.css universe/python/python2.4-4suite
[06:28] <ajmitch> so many more bugs we could have fixed
[06:28] <ajmitch> you tried more than most of us
[06:28] <bddebian> I got in the game late on Dapper though.  Freakin' work got in the way :'-(
[06:29] <ajmitch> soon you'll be able to do all of our main uploads for us
[06:29] <bddebian> Doubtful
[06:29] <ajmitch> why do you doubt?
[06:30] <bddebian> A) I'm still considering withdrawing my name
[06:30] <bddebian> B) I don't think they will take me
[06:30] <crimsun> man if I could punch someone via TCP/IP, I'd punch bddebian right in the knees
[06:31] <ajmitch> fight! fight!
[06:31] <crimsun> both of those reasons are so bad.
[06:31] <crimsun> at least say, "I didn't buy infinity a pony"
[06:31] <ajmitch> they are bad
[06:31] <ajmitch> infinity will be forever sad about that
[06:31] <bddebian> C) I didn't buy infinity a pony
[06:31] <crimsun> ok, C) is legit
[06:32] <dholbach> so how are the release party preparations going?
[06:33] <crimsun> mine are waiting til the weekend I think
[06:34] <dholbach> mine will be friday night
[06:34] <crimsun> excellent!
[06:35] <dholbach> yeah, and I got QUITE a bunch of mails asking where my place is, so I guess it'll be crowded :)
[06:38] <Gloubiboulga> the -fr locoteam has planned an install party next saturday, which will end in bars and restaurants :)
[06:38] <bddebian> Ack, I have to get to bed.  Gnight folks
[06:39] <Gloubiboulga> gnight bddebian
[06:41] <crimsun> man, I'm beginning to wish our default background really was ponies
[06:41] <dholbach> install party - guys I had enough of install party the last days
[06:41] <ajmitch> hehe
[06:41] <Gloubiboulga> :)
[06:41] <ajmitch> crimsun: we'd never be ponyless again
[06:41] <crimsun> Gloubiboulga: it has to start in the bars
[06:42] <Gloubiboulga> crimsun, I'll suggest the idea :)
[06:42] <dholbach> alias uch='dch -Dedgy'
[06:43] <dholbach> -Dedgy is just too weird to type :)
[06:43] <crimsun> hehe
[06:43] <ajmitch> -dodgy
[06:43] <ajmitch> I should setup an edgy pbuilder soon as well
[06:43] <ajmitch> might as well just copy the dapper base & config
[06:45] <jabra> we have an eta for the release?
[06:45] <ajmitch> jabra: when it's done
[06:45] <jabra> figured so
[06:49] <crimsun> I am chuckling at people spidering releases.ubuntu.com by hand trying to guess the images' locations.
[06:49] <jabra> heh
[06:49] <ajmitch> how foolish
[06:50] <ajmitch> nothing will happen until kamion & mdz are at the office, or they decide to hit the minibar at the hotel before lunch :)
[06:50] <crimsun> :-)
[06:51] <ajmitch> ok, pbuilder setup ready for edgy
[06:51] <ajmitch> we'll probably have a few weeks of intense workload with merge bugs
[06:52] <ajmitch> debian should be slowing down development of the base system, so that should at least stay fairly stable for edgy until keybuk & co decide to do things like replace init
[06:53] <crimsun> oh man, that's going to be /pain/
[06:54] <jabra> so all the forums that say it is out already are just bs?
[06:54] <crimsun> depends what the forums say
[06:54] <jabra> http://ubuntu-releases.optus.net/.pool/ubuntu-6.06-desktop-i386.iso
[06:54] <crimsun> you certainly can apt-get all the way up
[06:54] <crimsun> and the more scrutinizing ones will know which images to check instead of manually spidering mirrors :-)
[06:55] <ajmitch> jabra: it's probably someone renaming the latest daily image
[06:55] <ajmitch> since there is no official release done yet, no push to mirrors, etc :)
[06:55] <jabra> ya probably
[06:56] <whiprush_> howdy ajmitch
[06:57] <jabra> there shouldn't be a major tons of app upgrades for the release as I have been running dapper for sometime now
[06:57] <jabra> right ?
[06:57] <ajmitch> yo whiprush_
[06:57] <ajmitch> jabra: if you're up to date with dapper now, there should be no changes
[06:57] <whiprush_> jabra: the last update I got was vmware-player yesterday
[06:58] <whiprush_> ajmitch: will edgy open up soon or post-paris?
[06:58] <ajmitch> hopefully pre-paris
[06:58] <ajmitch> afaik it depends on infinity & cprov setting it up
[06:58] <whiprush_> ah
[06:58] <ajmitch> it's always been open before the dev conf
[06:59] <ajmitch> I remember doing a number of mono uploads with tseng at UDU
[06:59] <whiprush_> ah
[06:59] <ajmitch> & then complaining to lamont that the amd64 buildd was breaking :)
[06:59] <whiprush_> ajmitch: how's your SoC coming along?
[06:59] <ajmitch> ah, yeah ;)
[06:59] <ajmitch> it's getting there, just getting the bits & pieces together that I need
[07:00] <whiprush_> have you decided on FDS or openldap?
[07:00] <ajmitch> FDS looks to be an utter pig to build
[07:00] <ajmitch> requires non-free java
[07:01] <whiprush_> ah, I was under the impression that it was using gcj.
[07:01] <ajmitch> build instructions still ask for sun java to be used in places
[07:01] <whiprush_> ah
[07:01] <whiprush_> well, that kind of makes your choice easier, heh.
[07:01] <ajmitch> they may be inaccurate & out of date, of course :)
[07:02] <ajmitch> http://directory.fedora.redhat.com/wiki/Building
[07:02] <ajmitch> see the horrible mess
[07:02] <ajmitch> "NOTE: The java that comes by default on many Linux distros is GNU gcj/classpath. Our code does not currently build/run with this (we're working on it!), so you will need to install the IBM or Sun JDK in order to build the java code. On RHEL, the IBM JDK is in RHEL Extras. For other distros, you will have to go to the IBM or Sun web site, download, and install it."
[07:03] <whiprush_> I'm just happy that someone is working in this area. :D
[07:03] <ajmitch> heh
[07:04] <ajmitch> it'd probably be a SoC project in itself just to package FDS :)
[07:04] <whiprush_> heh
[07:05] <ajmitch> well we do have sun's java in multiverse, so it's an option
[07:06] <dholbach> heya whiprush_
[07:06] <whiprush_> the admin tools in FDS are certainly impressive.
[07:06] <whiprush_> hi daniel.
[07:08] <ajmitch> wonderful
[07:08] <ajmitch> people have found the .pool dir where isos are put up for staging
[07:14] <whiprush_> dholbach: 6 stories in the digg queue on the .isos ...
[07:14] <ajmitch> that's worrying
[07:15] <dholbach> I wonder what people are waiting for :)
[07:15] <turboSeX> ajmitch: 6 weeks more for dapper + 6 weeks less for edgy = 12 weeks (roughly 4 months)
[07:15] <ajmitch> turboSeX: um, no
[07:15] <whiprush_> well, at least people are excited about the release. :D
[07:15] <dholbach> turboSeX:  6 + (-6) = ?
[07:15] <ajmitch> don't count the 6 weeks twice
[07:16] <crimsun> dholbach: = ponies.
[07:16] <turboSeX> ajmitch: i was comparing dapper's to edgy's ("three months shorter for eft than it was for drake")
[07:16] <dholbach> crimsun: YEAH!
[07:16] <dholbach> and 12 weeks are 3 months, not 4 months
[07:16] <turboSeX> ajmitch: i am not comparing EDGY'S to STANDARD, but edgy's to dapper's. that's why i count it twice.
[07:17] <turboSeX> dholbach: first i said 3, not four. it was only now that i said 4, by mistake.
[07:17] <dholbach> ah ok
[07:18] <dholbach> well anyways, it's really 6 + (-6) for the moment - it might change with the release schedule to be planned at Paris
[07:18] <crimsun> yeah, I'm not sure why you double-penalized the six weeks
[07:18] <ajmitch> nothing about edgy is certain yet
[07:19] <turboSeX> crimsun: how many extra weeks we had available for dapper than we will have for edgy?
[07:20] <turboSeX> dholbach: yes, that's true. i am talking pure mathematics here.
[07:21] <turboSeX> crimsun: the answer to this question will show you why i double-penalize the six weeks.
[07:21] <turboSeX> crimsun: sorry, the question itself does it already :)
[07:24] <crimsun> turboSeX: that only holds if you assume that it's not time-based
[07:24] <crimsun> i.e., presuming that october is still the target, we simply have six fewer weeks.
[07:26] <turboSeX> crimsun: i don't think i understand your objection, but i would express it this way: as long as the total number of months between the release of breezy and the release of edgy remains constant, whenever we add x weeks to dapper's cycle, we implicitely subtract x weeks from edgy's cycle. as i said, i don't know the *real* schedule, i am talking pure logics.
[07:27] <ajmitch> turboSeX: there was also discussion of taking 2 weeks off the next 3 releases, instead of 6 weeks off edgy
[07:27] <ajmitch> still undecided
[07:27] <turboSeX> crimsun: so breezy's will be cycle+6 and edgy's will be cycle-6
[07:28] <turboSeX> crimsun: now the difference between the two cycles: cycle+6-(cycle-6)=cycle-cycle+6+6, which is 12.
[07:28] <turboSeX> crimsun: of course, the REAL dates may change all of this
[07:28] <crimsun> turboSeX: yes, 12 weeks is the total work, but that doesn't matter to us now that we're facing edgy
[07:29] <turboSeX> crimsun: agreed, i was simply explaining my calculation
[07:29] <crimsun> (I understood that much; I assumed you were facing edgy instead of looking at total work)
[07:30] <turboSeX> (i see)
[07:31] <ajmitch> as long as feature freeze is nice & late, I'm happy
[07:31] <ajmitch> since we don't need any long bug-fixing period :)
[07:31] <turboSeX> ajmitch: why don't we?
[07:32] <ajmitch> because it's edgy!
[07:32] <ajmitch> we don't need anything fancy like 'stability' or 'polish'
[07:32] <turboSeX> right
[08:05] <crimsun> "leaked beta iso"...
[08:05] <ajmitch> hah
[08:05] <ajmitch> where did you see that?
[08:06] <crimsun> #ubuntu
[08:06] <ajmitch> it must be leaked, I mean we've always operated so sekr3tly
[08:06] <crimsun> hehe
[08:08] <ajmitch> or that this hasn't been propagated from the pools yet, since the staging images we've had have all gone there anyway..
[08:08] <ajmitch> (or at least those that kamion has pushed there)
[08:15] <ajmitch> heh
[08:15] <ajmitch> bug 47195
[08:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47195 in Ubuntu "Please defer LTS goal to Dapper +1" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47195
[08:17] <neutrinomass> ajmitch: The great part about that is that it was filed on the 28th ...
[08:17] <ajmitch> I know
[08:18] <ajmitch> it's just a metabug :)
[08:19] <crimsun> man, Dapper LTS is just useless without ponies.
[08:19] <ajmitch> heh
[08:19] <highvoltage> crimsun: we have ponies in Edubuntu :P
[08:20] <ajmitch> ok that's it
[08:20] <ajmitch> I'm switching to edubuntu now
[08:20] <crimsun> oh man, Ubuntu's so screwed
[08:20] <crimsun> Edubuntu++!
[08:21] <highvoltage> :)
[08:22] <highvoltage> crimsun: we don't really have ponies, sorry :(
[08:22] <Fujitsu> Hahah
[08:22] <highvoltage> crimsun: but we'll have them in either -updates, or in edgy
[08:22] <highvoltage> (or from art.ubuntu.com)
[08:22] <crimsun> well dang, that leaves me stranded, because none of the derivatives have ponies :((
[08:23] <ajmitch> we'll really have to get ponies into edgy
[08:23] <robitaille> so we need to create  poniubuntu
[08:23] <ajmitch> do you think it'll work well with shipit?
[08:28] <crimsun> in the installer, nonetheless!
[08:31] <imbrandon> omg #ubuntu is crazy, lol, /me is glad #kubuntu is still semi sane
[08:31] <crimsun> yeah, it has been that way for hours, too
[08:32] <imbrandon> yea i usaly dont go into #ubuntu but i had to just to watch the nuts
[08:32] <ajmitch> it's a little crazy
[08:32] <ajmitch> in a way release day is a letdown for us :)
[08:33] <ajmitch> since it means we stop getting new stuff
[08:33] <imbrandon> hehe true ajmitch
[08:33] <imbrandon> ajmitch that just means looking forward top edgy
[08:33] <imbrandon> to*
[08:34] <ajmitch> edgy will probably be intensely broken for weeks at a time
[08:34] <imbrandon> someone needs to setup the ubotu to spit that !+dapper out every 60 seconds ;)
[08:35] <imbrandon> true ajmitch, vmware to the rescue ;)
[08:35] <ajmitch> & pbuilder
[08:36] <imbrandon> i need to learn howto set that up
[08:36] <ajmitch> & then when things have settled down a little, I upgrade my machines
[08:36] <ajmitch> hey viviersf
[08:37] <viviersf> morning ajmitch , all well ?
[08:38] <ajmitch> yeah, fairly well
[08:38] <viviersf> cool
[09:28] <_paniq> seveas sucks
[09:28] <dholbach> paniq: there's no need for that language here
[09:28] <crimsun> um, please don't take offense, but that /definitely/ doesn't belong in here.
[09:28] <paniq> >:)
[09:28] <paniq> yeah yeah i shut up, allright.
[09:28] <dholbach> we all respect the CoC in here.
[09:29] <paniq> interesting abbreviation ;)
[09:30] <dholbach> Code of Conduct
[09:30] <paniq> i'm aware of what it is thank you :P
[09:31] <paniq> guess no party for me then, today. just hard work.
[09:31] <paniq> laters
[09:53] <naraul> someone please package vidalia for dapper?
[09:53] <Seveas> naraul, for dapper it won't happen
[09:53] <Seveas> maybe for edgy
[09:54] <naraul> oh, ok
[09:54] <naraul> for edgy then :)
[09:54] <Fujitsu> Oh sure, it can happen. Come on, there's a few hours to go! That's long enough :P
[09:54] <amac> its been frozen =)
[09:55] <naraul> this is the source: http://vidalia-project.net/dist/vidalia-0.0.4.tar.gz
[09:55] <naraul> amac: edgy??
[09:55] <amac> dapper
[09:56] <naraul> amac: ok, for edgy then :)
[11:21] <TheMuso> ajmitch: I'm with you there.
[11:21] <ajmitch> need to upload new crack!
[11:21] <TheMuso> ...and for Parris. :)
[11:21] <ajmitch> yeah, except some of us can't go to paris..
[11:22] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: get to work! :-)
[11:22] <TheMuso> I couldn't normally, but Canonical can really be helpful sometimes. :)
[11:22] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: yes sir
[11:22] <TheMuso> heh
[11:23] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: seriously though, we should take a little bit of time to sit down and get the spec finalised and the infrastructure you need set up.
[11:23] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: I know, I was going to wait a couple of days before discussing spec needs with you
[11:23] <Mithrandir> yup
[11:24] <Mithrandir> I'll be away in the weekend so it's either today or tomorrow or after the weekend (which means Tuesday the earliest; monday being a public holiday here)
[11:24] <ajmitch> right, and jane wants specs by the 5th
[11:24] <ajmitch> which is monday
[11:24] <Mithrandir> yup
[11:25] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Youch. Thats news to me.
[11:25] <Mithrandir> so today or tomorrow.  Your choice.
[11:25] <ajmitch> I'll be free all day tomorrow
[11:25] <ajmitch> TheMuso: the 5th for SoC projects
[11:25] <TheMuso> Oh ok.
[11:26] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: what times are you around/awake?
[11:26] <TheMuso> phew
[11:26] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: name a time, this week I haven't had any set pattern :)
[11:26] <ajmitch> I'm at UTC+12, usually in bed by 3AM here
[11:27] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: I'm generally around from ~0700 UTC, tomorrow I'll leave at about 1400UTC and then be offline the weekend.
[11:28] <ajmitch> so about 0900 UTC?
[11:28] <Mithrandir> sure
[11:28] <Mithrandir> just ping me then?
[11:28] <ajmitch> will do
[11:32] <ajmitch> TheMuso: so what specs are you going to write up for paris?
[11:32] <TheMuso> ajmitch: All accessibility related.
[11:32] <ajmitch> great
[11:33] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Give Ubuntu a few accessibility features that even our commercial rivals like Windows and OS X don't even have.
[11:33] <ajmitch> such as?
[11:34] <TheMuso> Spoken feedback while the system boots, so that you know if anything fails.
[11:34] <TheMuso> And whether and fsck fails etc.
[11:34] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: scary.
[11:34] <ajmitch> you'd need to stuff a few extra things in initramfs for that, I assume?
[11:35] <TheMuso> ajmitch: aybe.
[11:35] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Thats the only drawback to it. It is quite invasive.
[11:36] <TheMuso> But as the way OSs stand now, a blind user only knows that their system is functioning when the desktop loads and their screen reader/braille display starts spitting out data.
[11:41] <ajmitch> I might as well work on the selinux spec again :)
[11:41] <ajmitch> being an etch release goal, I think it finally has a chance for ubuntu :)
[11:56] <crimsun> what, not Ubuntu Pony/Linux? Bah!
[11:56] <ajmitch> I know, very sad
[11:57] <ajmitch> we'll have to have the Prancing Pony some other time
[11:58] <ajmitch> I wonder how the datacentre bandwidth is holding up
[12:26] <imbrandon> crimsun, Ubuntu GNU/Pony/Linux
[12:26] <imbrandon> ;)
[12:26] <naraul> imbrandon: why pony?
[12:27] <imbrandon> running joke this morning
[12:27] <ajmitch> because everyone wants a pony!
[12:27] <Mithrandir> ponies rock
[12:28] <imbrandon> naraul, dont you want a GNU/My Little Pony (r) ?
[12:28] <imbrandon> !?!! [05:23]  [473]  #ubuntu+1 You need to be invited to that channel
[12:29] <imbrandon> wasup with that ?
[12:29] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, I think seveas booted everyone out & locked the channel
[12:29] <ajmitch> since dapper is released
[12:29] <imbrandon> heheh EDGY !
[12:29] <imbrandon> Edgy ponies
[12:30] <imbrandon> Ponies on the Edgy ?!?
[12:30] <ajmitch> ponies on crack
[12:30] <imbrandon> lol
[12:31] <imbrandon> guess i should wipe my dev/build box and get it ready for the edgy repos
[12:31] <ajmitch> why?
[12:31] <imbrandon> it'll give me something to do while i'm setting up the icecast server
[12:31] <ajmitch> what's so wrong with just dist-upgrading?
[12:31] <ajmitch> my box survived several years of dist-upgrades without being wiped
[12:32] <imbrandon> nothing i guess ;) my main box has but my build box i wipe it every 6 weeks or so and start anew
[12:33] <ajmitch> crazy
[12:34] <imbrandon> i think this box i'm on right now ( my main one ) has survied since horay
[12:34] <ajmitch> heh
[12:40] <ajmitch> probably
[12:40] <ogra> likely
[12:41] <ajmitch> and edgy+1 will probably still release before vista is generally available..
[12:42] <spacey> vista delayed again/
[12:42] <spacey> ?
[12:43] <imbrandon> likely ;)
[12:43] <ajmitch> we'll see
[12:43] <imbrandon> at very leaste edgy ;)
[12:44] <imbrandon> if not edgy+1
[12:46] <naraul> spacey: actually vista was never delayed. it's all fud.
[12:47] <spacey> naraul: anyway the later it comes the better :p
[12:47] <spacey> or depends how you look at it
[12:47] <imbrandon> but spacey Duke Nukem: Forever will run on Windows Vista: Forever  when its released *rolls eyes*
[12:48] <crimsun> yeah, but by then we'll have ponies. We win.
[12:48] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:48] <spacey> i guess they have enough time to polish it
[12:48] <naraul> spacey: well, since i am against microsoft, i would say the opposite: the sooner disaster comes, the better :)
[12:49] <highvoltage> heh. the 'pink' release.
[12:49] <imbrandon> heh
[12:49] <highvoltage> hmmm... a pretty pony theme for edubuntu might not be a bad idea
[12:49] <imbrandon> hahahahha
[12:50] <spacey> naraul: if early release means a crappy one then it would be better yes :p
[12:50] <imbrandon> j/k
[12:51] <imbrandon> highvoltage, would kinda be funny for the kiddo's though
[12:54] <spacey> terrify them young?
[12:56] <highvoltage> imbrandon: heh.
[12:57] <crimsun> uh oh
[01:06] <naraul> what is the server cd?
[01:06] <naraul> they mention a server cd
[01:06] <naraul> what is that?
[01:06] <ajmitch> the server cd that you can download..
[01:06] <naraul> there's "On the Desktop CD" vs. "On the Server"
[01:06] <ajmitch> it's in there with the rest of them
[01:07] <ajmitch> different set of packages, different kernel
[01:07] <ajmitch> some options like setting up a LAMP server
[01:08] <naraul> is it the alternate one?
[01:08] <naraul> "alternate"
[01:08] <dholbach> no, it's a separate one
[01:08] <dholbach> but you can install a server from 'alternate' as well
[01:09] <dholbach> on the server CD you get more server stuff on there as well
[01:09] <ajmitch> server stuff for edgy should be interesting :)
[01:09] <naraul> oh, do you mean there's an "ubuntu-server" metapackage just like there's an "ubuntu-desktop" metapackage?
[01:09] <ajmitch> if anyone would be brave enough to run edgy as a server...
[01:10] <ajmitch> naraul: no, the server option on the alternate cd installs ubuntu-standard, you then install anything else manually
[01:11] <ajmitch> there's no meta-package at the moment for various server setups
[01:11] <ajmitch> just the LAMP install option, afaik
[01:12] <ajmitch> imbrandon: it's there, below the rest of them on the release page
[01:13] <imbrandon> ahh i was looking at cdimage.u.c
[01:13] <ajmitch> they're also on cdimage.u.c, under another directory
[01:14] <ajmitch> however those builds aren't really as relevant now
[01:15] <dholbach> muuhuhuhahahahaha
[01:16] <crimsun> well, hopefully not /all/, since some will have to be merged
[01:16] <crimsun> (cf. wxwidgets2.6)
[01:17] <crimsun> well, I guess it's no longer an UVFe req :-)
[01:17] <dholbach> ok, then i'll remove motuuvf as the assignee
[01:17] <crimsun> right, that would work, too
[01:19] <ajmitch> dholbach: so do you get a couple of days to rest, or busy preparing -updates? :)
[01:20] <dholbach> 2.14.x for -updates
[01:20] <dholbach> 2.15.x + Debian merges for edgy
[01:20] <dholbach> no rest for me
[01:20] <naraul> why is ubuntu much more popular than kubuntu, considering that kde is more popular than gnome?
[01:20] <ajmitch> more popular according to whom?
[01:20] <dholbach> naraul: I don't think you can say that one is more popular than another
[01:21] <neutrinomass> dholbach: Any idea on when edgy repos will open ?
[01:21] <ajmitch> neutrinomass: when they're ready ;)
[01:21] <ajmitch> edgy won't be a usable distro for at least a few weeks, I suspect
[01:21] <ajmitch> not until well after paris, due to packages being synced in from sid, and the distro being uninstallable for periods of time
[01:21] <Toadstool> heya everybody
[01:21] <neutrinomass> ajmitch: No wonder Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian :P I'll probably set up a vmware environment or install on a seperate partition anyway. 2-3 weeks is a reasonable estimate right ?
[01:22] <ajmitch> neutrinomass: edgy will be open for upload within a few days, I suspect, but it'll be 'batshit insane'
[01:22] <neutrinomass> ajmitch: Fair enough. Thanks :)
[01:22] <crimsun> dput ponies-0.1_source.changes, woo!
[01:23] <imbrandon> hahahahahah
[01:23] <dholbach> crimsun: so ponies are a native package? :)
[01:23] <ajmitch> dholbach: of course!
[01:23] <crimsun> yep
[01:23] <dholbach> crimsun: I guess, according to you it's more native than others :-p
[01:23] <crimsun> hehe
[01:23] <naraul> ajmitch: linus thor
[01:23] <imbrandon> ;)
[01:24] <ajmitch> ?
[01:25] <naraul> ajmitch: the question mark was for me?
[01:25] <ajmitch> yes
[01:25] <ajmitch> wondering what on earth you meant
[01:27] <naraul> ajmitch: linus torvalds thinks kde is much better than gnome, so now kde is the official desktop environment of most geeks that respect that guy
[01:27] <ajmitch> not from the geeks that I know, but all we have is anecdotal evidence
[01:28] <ajmitch> so it's not exactly something you can argue
[01:29] <imbrandon> naraul, nah i use kde but i could care less what linus uses ;)
[01:32] <naraul> why doesn't ubuntu have a java packages repo?
[01:33] <naraul> there are some nice open source java apps
[01:33] <naraul> azureus is one of them
[01:33] <imbrandon> az is in the repos
[01:33] <naraul> i use it every week
[01:33] <naraul> breezy?
[01:33] <imbrandon> root@voyager:~# apt-cache search azureus
[01:33] <imbrandon> azureus - BitTorrent client
[01:33] <imbrandon> root@voyager:~#
[01:33] <naraul> imbrandon: breezy?
[01:33] <imbrandon> nope , but dapper is the stable dog now ;)
[01:34] <imbrandon> sun-java5-jre is also in the repos for dapper, i think that had alot to do with it
[01:34] <naraul> imbrandon: what about jedit?
[01:35] <naraul> and which repo is this?
[01:35] <imbrandon> dont see jedit , the dapper multivers repos
[01:35] <imbrandon> naraul, packages.ubuntu.com you can search dapper repos
[01:36] <imbrandon> * or breezy / horay *
[01:36] <naraul> right thanks
[01:38] <Hobbsee> hi all
[01:38] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
[01:39] <crimsun> nope, fighting maintainer scripts atm
[01:40] <Hobbsee> ah what fun :)
[01:40] <Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
[02:29] <Whoopie>  Hi, I have a question regarding package patches: what are these relibtoolize patches for?
[02:30] <tennessy> is it preferable for me to try the 64 bits version?
[02:30] <tennessy> or will i have issues?
[02:30] <tennessy> is it less supported?
[02:30] <tennessy> please help me decide
[02:34] <tennessy> Seveas: http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/source-o-matic appears to be down ("Fatal error: Call to undefined function: xml_parser_create() in /var/www/www.kaarsemaker.net/public_html/lib/class.xmlparser.php on line 50"). are you behind this?
[02:34] <Seveas> I know
[02:34] <Seveas> stupid admin updated php
[02:35] <tennessy> Seveas: any idea how long this will take?
[02:35] <Seveas> not too long
[02:35] <Seveas> but in a few hours that server will be down for the better part of 34h
[02:35] <Seveas> 24h*
[02:36] <tennessy> thank you
[02:57] <buxy> siretart: I'm hearing that you're going through NM superfast, that's cool!
[03:09] <siretart> buxy: :) - yes, I just send in my answers for T&S 1 :)
[03:10] <ogra> siretart, happy release day
[03:10] <ogra> Seveas, where is the @release-party plugin for ubuntu ?
[03:10] <ogra> *Ubugtu
[03:11] <Ubugtu> PARTAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!
[03:11] <ogra> haha
[03:11] <siretart> ogra: congrats to the release! :)
[03:11] <siretart> party on, guys!
[03:12] <ogra> thanks :)
[03:12] <zul> party on wayne
[03:12] <siretart> party on, garth!
[03:12] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:13] <zul> and im stuck at work
[03:13] <Hobbsee> how dull!
[03:17] <adolson> I think the website needs to have a thing in the FAQ about Intel 64-bit CPUs, because it is confusing people even at my work, they are using i386 images now.. :\
[03:20] <adolson> despite it saying it on the download page.. it would be good to have there too, I think.
[03:20] <Mithrandir> well, they work fine on 64 bit intel cpus and apart from the bigger memory area, there's little incentive to use 64 bit mode on intel cpus.
[03:21] <adolson> oh? so I shouldn't download it and reinstall then? there's a SUSE user in the office who says there's a big performance difference using 64-bit
[03:21] <Mithrandir> I'd doubt so with intel cpus.
[03:21] <Mithrandir> and the performance difference isn't big, it's 10-20% on "most" applications, iirc.
[03:22] <adolson> good to know
[03:22] <Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
[03:22] <adolson> I won't waste my time reinstalling then :)
[03:22] <Mithrandir> hiya Hobbsee
[03:22] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: feeling dapper today? :-)
[03:22] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:22] <Hobbsee> define feeling dapper :P
[03:23] <tennessy> is it preferable for me to try the 64 bits version?
[03:23] <tennessy> or will i have issues?
[03:23] <tennessy> is it less supported?
[03:23] <tennessy> please help me decide
[03:23] <Mithrandir> adolson: the reason why you don't see a performance difference on intel cpus is they have implemented the extra instructions and such in microcode rather than "real hardware", so they're in a sense emulated.
[03:23] <adolson> ah
[03:23] <Mithrandir> tennessy: it's just as supported as the 32 bit version.
[03:24] <tennessy> Mithrandir: really?
[03:24] <tennessy> Mithrandir: what about drivers?
[03:24] <tennessy> Mithrandir: what about nvidia, for instance?
[03:24] <siretart> Mithrandir: so Athlon64 cpus do profit a lot from ubuntu/amd64 over ubuntu/i386? did someone did some benchmarks to compare this?
[03:24] <Mithrandir> tennessy: I'm running a dualhead amd64 setup with nvidia drivers.
[03:24] <Mithrandir> adolson: for some media ops and such, AMD cpus in 64 bit mode are twice as fast, but that's just for a small set of apps.
[03:25] <Mithrandir> siretart: yeah, somebody did the benchmarks and the conclusion was something along the lines of "varies a lot by app"
[03:25] <Mithrandir> but in general is a tad faster.
[03:25] <siretart> ah. I see
[03:26] <adolson> good to know. thanks Mithrandir
[03:31] <tennessy> Mithrandir: what about vmware?
[03:32] <Mithrandir> you can't use 64 bit vmware without running a 64 bit install.
[03:33] <highvoltage> that's a pity. would've been nice if they could emulate 64bit under 32bit... and even ppc
[03:33] <Mithrandir> it's virtualisation, not emulation
[03:34] <tennessy> Mithrandir: so i can't install a 32 winxp under a 64bit vmware?
[03:36] <Mithrandir> tennessy: I didn't say that.
[03:36] <Mithrandir> tennessy: since that works just fine.
[03:36] <tennessy> Mithrandir: then i didn't understand what you said
[03:37] <Mithrandir> tennessy: you can't install a 64 bit winxp under a 32 bit vmware.
[03:37] <tennessy> Mithrandir: i want to run a 64 bit install and to install a 64 bit vmware and i was asking how much faster that would be
[03:37] <Hobbsee> hi Kyral
[03:37] <tennessy> i mean, how much faster will the logical machine be?
[03:38] <Mithrandir> depends on what you're running in it.  Probably measureable, but not "feel"able.
[03:38] <tennessy> thanks
[03:39] <Kyral> morning
[03:49] <Gloubiboulga> somebody knows why webmin has been removed in dapper ?
[03:50] <Gloubiboulga> s/ in/ from/
[03:51] <Yagisan> Gloubiboulga: IIRC I think it was effectively orphaned in Debian then removed
[03:52] <Yagisan> Gloubiboulga: http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=webmin&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
[03:52] <Gloubiboulga> thanks Yagisan
[03:58] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:59] <bddebian> I'll re-iterate what I said in -devel.. :-)
[03:59] <bddebian> CONGRATS EVERYONE AND THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK!!!
[03:59] <Hobbsee> hey bddebian
[04:00] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
[04:00] <Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian :)
[04:00] <bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
[04:10] <tseng> yay dapper
[04:11] <bddebian> Oh hush up you business travelling traitor ;-P
[04:12] <tseng> traitor?
[04:12] <tseng> wtf
[04:13] <bddebian> No tseng, no party :-)
[04:13] <Yagisan> dappers out now ?
[04:13] <highvoltage> yep
[04:13] <tseng> er, yes
[04:13] <bddebian> heh
[04:18] <tseng> bddebian: at least i got a nice hotel room
[04:18] <tseng> desk, sofa, big bed
[04:18] <bddebian> Nice
[04:26] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Anyone feel like helping me debug something?
[04:27] <bddebian> Not on FreeBSD ;-)
[04:27] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Its not on FreeBSD
[04:28] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I just happen to be connected to IRC from the FreeBSD machine I'm playing with
[04:30] <Kyral_FreeBSD> And its for work, so the faster I get this working the faster I can get hacking on the Hurd :P
[04:30] <bddebian> w00t
[04:30] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Hehe I know how to get bbdebian's attention
[04:31] <Kyral_FreeBSD> You should have seen my comment on all the over the top Dapper stuff going on last night
[04:31] <bddebian> ??
[04:31] <Kyral_FreeBSD> "Jeez, they are acting like the HURD went stable or something
[04:31] <tseng> har har
[04:31] <tseng> hurd.
[04:31] <Yagisan> Kyral_FreeBSD: Hurd ? that have opengl ?
[04:31] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Yagisan: It was a joke
[04:32] <Kyral_FreeBSD> the HURD prolly won't be stable for like 3 more years
[04:32] <tseng> hasnt hurd been around for 10 years already
[04:32] <jamessan> didn't they say that 3 years ago?
[04:32] <bddebian> Try 3 more centuries ;-P
[04:32] <Yagisan> Kyral_FreeBSD: I know it's not finished, but for a laugh I want to see if some software a) builds, and b) runs on it
[04:32] <Kyral_FreeBSD> The point WAS that they were going over the top :P
[04:32] <bddebian> A lot of software builds and runs on it
[04:33] <Yagisan> bddebian: software I have in mind has portablity bugs I'm hunting down
[04:33] <Kyral_FreeBSD> and I promised bddebian  I would help make an Ubunturd :P
[04:33] <Yagisan> bddebian: another system to break it on is helpful to me
[04:33] <Kyral_FreeBSD> bddebian: we should really change that name...
[04:33] <bddebian> Yagisan: I have 3 public Hurd boxes if you want access
[04:33] <bddebian> Kyral_FreeBSD: I know :-(
[04:34] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Hubuntu?
[04:34] <tseng> haha
[04:34] <tseng> Development on the Hurd began in 1990, after an abandoned kernel attempt called Trix.
[04:34] <Yagisan> bddebian: actually, yeah. Debian based ?
[04:35] <ogra> and HURD comes next year, no ?
[04:35] <bddebian> Yagisan: Yes, all Debian
[04:35] <bddebian> ogra: :-)
[04:35] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Wasn't Gentoo working on a HURD thing?
[04:35] <Yagisan> bddebian: nice, I can apt-get the build-deps in a pbuilder
[04:35] <bddebian> Yes but development stopped a while ago.  Someone tried to pick it up again recently though
[04:38] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I hate debugging
[04:38] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I think I need another pair of eyes on this one
[04:40] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Anyone mind taking a look?
[04:41] <Kyral_FreeBSD> There must be something really stupid I am doing
[04:42] <bddebian> Kyral_FreeBSD: What is it?
[04:43] <Kyral_FreeBSD> This daemon I am writing to check servers
[04:43] <Kyral_FreeBSD> pings every so often and emails the admin if its down
[04:43] <Kyral_FreeBSD> but its not working quite right
[04:43] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I think I have a case of "being too close to the code" if you get my drift
[04:44] <Kyral_FreeBSD> the tarball is at bocesproject.snell.clarkson.edu/~petermcv/shcd-1.3.tgz
[04:47] <Kyral_FreeBSD> you'll need MuttNG for it
[04:53] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Feel free to try it out..I need more testers anyway :D
[05:05] <medelin_> I upload do REVU at first time
[05:05] <medelin_> and dont have login to revu webpage
[05:05] <medelin_> i try recover and get a encrypted message with my password
[05:06] <medelin_> so this message is cryted with public key different of mine key
[05:12] <medelin_> and I cant decrypt her
[05:46] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Is it possible for a network to be flaky for a nano second...
[05:48] <Yagisan> Kyral_FreeBSD: of course.
[05:48] <Kyral_FreeBSD> then why the heck does it seem to happen in the ONE second I ping this damn machine
[05:53] <Yagisan> Kyral_FreeBSD: you may need stephen hawking to explain that
[06:48] <Tonio_> hi
[06:48] <Se7h> alo
[06:56] <phanatic> hi people
[06:57] <LaserJock> hi phanatic
[06:57] <phanatic> hey LaserJock
[06:57] <LaserJock> anybody know when Edgy will open?
[06:57] <Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic, LaserJock
[06:58] <zul> LaserJock: soon...probably <TM>
[06:58] <LaserJock> or if it has even been discussed/decided
[06:58] <LaserJock> did dapper open after UBZ?
[06:58] <phanatic> heya Gloubiboulga
[06:58] <LaserJock> I can't remember
[06:58] <phanatic> one week i think
[06:58] <ogra> shortly before iirc
[06:58] <LaserJock> ok
[06:59] <LaserJock> hmm, I've already got a lot of work to do ;-)
[07:00] <ogra> we first need new seeds, then the archive software must be taught to know about egdy ...
[07:00] <ogra> that will take some time ... i guess not before end of next week
[07:18] <bddebian> Heya phanatic, LaserJock
[07:18] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Gotta love Perl
[07:19] <Kyral_FreeBSD> they have a complete reference guide and tutorial all in manpages
[07:19] <phanatic> heya bddebian
[07:22] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[07:23] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock: bddebian : Hi once again.. Lets celerate.. My vacation and Dapper Drake both have rolled out on the same day
[07:23] <bddebian> w00t again :-)
[07:23] <Kyral_FreeBSD> When I get my XenServer back up fully I will celebrate
[07:24] <zul> tuxmaniac: then you can get ready for edgy ;)
[07:25] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Actually...shit...I need to recompile my domU kernel
[07:25] <LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to get things in dapper-updates
[07:25] <tuxmaniac> Kyral_FreeBSD: for once.. celebrate.. Life is just not Ubuntu.. Its about champagne too
[07:26] <LaserJock> not time for partying here ;-)
[07:26] <Kyral_FreeBSD> tuxmaniac: Who said anything about Ubutnu
[07:26] <Kyral_FreeBSD> The thing runs on Debian Stable :P
[07:26] <tuxmaniac> whatever.. sorry guys
[07:26] <tuxmaniac> seems like a wrong channel to feel happy about ubuntu
[07:26] <lucas> hello all
[07:26] <LaserJock> tuxmaniac: no no
[07:26] <LaserJock> I'm happy
[07:26] <Kyral_FreeBSD> because we are all very anbnoyed with people acting like the HURD went stable last night :P
[07:27] <bddebian> What are you talking about?
[07:27] <Kyral_FreeBSD> You should have seen #ubuntuforums last night
[07:27] <Kyral_FreeBSD> seriously they were acting like the HURD went stable or something...
[07:27] <bddebian> Who was?
[07:27] <bddebian> And why?
[07:27] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Because Dapper was coming out
[07:28] <Kyral_FreeBSD> they were LITERALLY counting down per minute
[07:30] <Kyral_FreeBSD> hmm now there is an idea...
[07:30] <bddebian> WTF would Dapper have to do with Hurd?
[07:30] <Kyral_FreeBSD> get a Core Duo and use the built in virtualization to put HURD on Xen
[07:30] <Kyral_FreeBSD> bddebian: I meant thats how they were acting
[07:30] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ie, party mode major
[07:30] <bddebian> Ahhh
[07:31] <Kyral_FreeBSD> You think I could use the virtualization in the new Intel cores to put HURD on Xen?
[07:35] <bddebian> You could certainly try :-)
[07:36] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Seeing as I'm looking to pick up one of the new cores this summer :D
[07:37] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Jeez, this one is gonna take a while
[07:37] <Kyral_FreeBSD> mkfs.ext3 -cc -m 1 -O dir_index -v
[07:40] <Kyral_FreeBSD> you did
[07:41] <highvoltage> i wish it could go stable though :(
[07:41] <Kyral_FreeBSD> when I jump to a Core Duo I'm gonna try to use its virtualization to put HURD on Xen
[07:41] <highvoltage> i love the gnu project
[07:41] <Kyral_FreeBSD> hehe I do to
[07:42] <Kyral_FreeBSD> which is why I am a member of the FSF
[07:45] <bddebian> highvoltage: So help us fix it :-)
[07:45] <highvoltage> bddebian: where do you work on it?
[07:45] <highvoltage> are you involved with ubuntu-libre aka gnubuntu?
[07:45] <highvoltage> Kyral_FreeBSD: i'm also a member of FSF, member #3066
[07:46] <bddebian> highvoltage: I didn't know there was a gnubuntu
[07:46] <bddebian> I was considering an Ubuntu GNU/Hurd distro for a while
[07:47] <highvoltage> bddebian: there are some other poeple in ubuntu who's been working on something too
[07:47] <highvoltage> they normally hang out in #ubuntu-libre, but there's not many ppl there atm
[07:48] <highvoltage> it was going to be called gnubuntu, but RMS said he doesn't like the word, so they changed the name.
[07:48] <Kyral_FreeBSD> bddebian: I said once I get my work underway and to the point where I can take a break then I will work on Ubuntu/HURD :P
[07:48] <highvoltage> ubuntu gnu/hurd would rock
[07:48] <bddebian> Ubunturd
[07:48] <bddebian> F* RMS
[07:49] <highvoltage> can I post some links?
[07:49] <bddebian> OK with me
[07:49] <Kyral_FreeBSD> hmm
[07:50] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I may not need to rewrite this in Python to internalize everything
[07:50] <highvoltage> http://osdir.com/Article7951.phtml
[07:50] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Perl seems to have what I need
[07:50] <highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu-libre
[07:50] <dholbach> Ok fellas - I call it a day - happy partying
[07:50] <bddebian> Later dholbach!  Good work! :-)
[07:50] <highvoltage> goodnight dholbach
[07:50] <highvoltage> i would give you a hug, but i'm not a huggy person
[07:51] <highvoltage> dholbach: but i will buy you chocolate or a beer in Paris :)
[07:51] <tuxmaniac> dholbach: dont utter the word party on -motu
[07:51] <dholbach> highvoltage: I'll buy you one too!
[07:51] <dholbach> :-)
[07:52] <bddebian> hehe
[07:52] <dholbach> ok see you!
[07:53] <dholbach> bye :)
[07:53] <tuxmaniac> :-)
[07:57] <Kyral_FreeBSD> hmm
[07:57] <Kyral_FreeBSD> directly interfacing with SMTP via perl...
[07:59] <\sh> yesterday evening and night with a lot of special "Maibock" beer
[07:59] <lucasvo> I have problem with a tetex package, I can't download it (http://pastebin.com/751756)
[07:59] <lucasvo> what's wrong with it?
[08:00] <lucasvo> oh, it's in the main repos. who should I ask?
[08:01] <\sh> #u-devel
[08:01] <lucasvo> ok
[08:01] <lucasvo> thanks
[08:12] <ajmitch> morning
[08:13] <\sh> ok..going to celebrate ubuntu release the second time ;)
[08:13] <\sh> laters
[08:13] <ajmitch> heh
[08:18] <bddebian> Enjoy \sh_away
[08:18] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[08:18] <ajmitch> hi bddebian
[08:18] <ajmitch> ready to put us all to shame on edgy now, are you?
[08:21] <bddebian> If that were true, don't you think some of the "real developers" would notice? ;-P
[08:21] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Hehe, if I get enough time, Edgy will have the HURD :P
[08:22] <ajmitch> I'm sure
[08:22] <ajmitch> bddebian: you are a real developer...
[08:22] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Actually getting running on the Xen CoreDuo would help in that regard
[08:22] <bddebian> Oh BS, I fix .desktop files :-)
[08:22] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I wouldn't have to dual boot
[08:22] <ajmitch> Kyral_FreeBSD: and have you got a distro with the Hurd up & running yet?
[08:22] <Kyral_FreeBSD> just xm console hurdvm :P
[08:22] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ajmitch: Nope, I have to finish work first :P
[08:23] <ajmitch> heh
[08:23] <Kyral_FreeBSD> work == pay
[08:23] <Kyral_FreeBSD> pay == new CPU :P
[08:23] <ajmitch> so you plan to do a port of ubuntu to a completely different kernel, which you're not even using yet?
[08:23] <ajmitch> funny
[08:23] <Kyral_FreeBSD> well
[08:23] <kagou> hi
[08:23] <Kyral_FreeBSD> seeing as Debian already has a lot done
[08:24] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I'll just start out by installing a debian base system and slowly recompiling from Ubuntu repos
[08:24] <bddebian> ajmitch: ;-)
[08:24] <ajmitch> running into problems all the way :)
[08:24] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ain't that the point?
[08:24] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I'm gonna learn a shitload fixing them :D
[08:24] <bddebian> Are you ready to fight the zealotry too? :-)
[08:25] <ajmitch> so how are you going to port the Hurd to xen?
[08:25] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ajmitch: Core Duo has that nice built in virtualization
[08:25] <ajmitch> so?
[08:25] <Kyral_FreeBSD> you don't need to patch the kernel
[08:25] <ajmitch> so you'll run one old-style hypervisor (mach) on top of another..
[08:25] <Kyral_FreeBSD> it should be as easy as installing it normally (with hold comments)
[08:26] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Oh it won't be primary
[08:26] <Kyral_FreeBSD> it will be some guest domain
[08:26] <Kyral_FreeBSD> and believe me I will have the power for it :D
[08:28] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Heh it will be the ultimate distro tryout machine lol
[08:28] <Kyral_FreeBSD> just create another XenGuest
[08:34] <LaserJock> hmm, I just had my first big IRC argument
[08:34] <LaserJock> I hate arguments
[08:34] <ajmitch> congraulations
[08:34] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ook you this long?
[08:34] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Jeez I seem to get into flamewars everyday
[08:35] <ajmitch> you have a skill for it
[08:35] <Kyral_FreeBSD> pfft
[08:35] <LaserJock> yes, I don't like conflict and am generally very calm and patient
[08:36] <LaserJock> but I just had it when I've worked so hard this release and somebody said that Universe wasn't offical or supported in any way
[08:37] <LaserJock> I understand the differences between Main and Universe, but to say that my work is nothing, that being a MOTU is nothing :/
[08:37] <ajmitch> ah, that one
[08:37] <Kyral_FreeBSD> At least you don't get the "You used Ubuntu, so you are a n00b" one
[08:37] <ajmitch> yes, it does tend to disparage all the hard work that's been put in
[08:37] <Kyral_FreeBSD> nevermind that I have been using Linux for 4 years and maintain a couple packages
[08:37] <Gloubiboulga> Kyral_FreeBSD, I see this one every day
[08:37] <Kyral_FreeBSD> *twitch*
[08:38] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Lesse, I started on Slack, survived a year on Gentoo, and then got tired and wanted a break so I used Ubuntu for a while
[08:38] <LaserJock> and then a Debian guy pops in and says that Universe is not supported like Debian is
[08:38] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Oh sometimes the Debian guys piss me off
[08:39] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Like one day this poor guy came in asking a question about Ubutnu and they jumped his ass
[08:40] <LaserJock> anyway, I need to calm down to my usual affable self :-)
[08:41] <LaserJock> arggh, but they said there was no guarantee of security fixes and updates
[08:41] <Kyral_FreeBSD> chill
[08:42] <LaserJock> I guess I shouldn't be working on the packages I was going to send to dapper-updates
[08:42] <LaserJock> :-)
[08:42] <LaserJock> maybe we need a MOTU strike and see how they like it ;-)
[08:43] <ajmitch> LaserJock: why did that annoy you? they were quite right, universe security has been a best-effort job by some great people who've taken that job on
[08:44] <LaserJock> yes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen
[08:44] <ajmitch> saying there's no guarantee is not the same as saying that noone bothers to work on universe
[08:44] <LaserJock> right
[08:44] <LaserJock> that was my point
[08:44] <LaserJock> but it didn't really stick I guess
[08:44] <ajmitch> canonical is bound to provide security updates for main, we're not under the same obligation for universe
[08:44] <ajmitch> people shouldn't necessarily trust universe to run their critical services
[08:44] <LaserJock> right, but they said it had nothing to do with canoncial
[08:44] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Universe is like the AUR Unsupported
[08:45] <LaserJock> but I consider it to be a lot to do with Canonical
[08:45] <Kyral_FreeBSD> or rather the AUR itself
[08:45] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it is
[08:46] <LaserJock> anyway, I understand what they are saying and for sure Main is not the same as Universe
[08:46] <LaserJock> but to say that it is unoffical just doesn't make sense to me
[08:46] <ajmitch> I can understand what you mean though
[08:48] <LaserJock> anyway, it was just the wrong day
[08:48] <ajmitch> :)
[08:48] <ajmitch> you've done a lot of great work for dapper
[08:48] <Kyral_FreeBSD> yup yup
[08:48] <LaserJock> I've been working on the "unoffical" and "unsupported" Universe somewhere around 40 hrs a week for months now
[08:48] <ajmitch> it shows, canonical now flying you round the world & all
[08:49] <ajmitch> that's about 39 hours a week more than me
[08:49] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Good Job LJ
[08:49] <LaserJock> hehe, that's just because ogra and JaneW are  nice
[08:49] <Kyral_FreeBSD> hehe, honestly I thought I would get all this crap before you
[08:49] <Kyral_FreeBSD> then school hit and... :P
[08:49] <LaserJock> I'm still a packaging newb
[08:50] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I've stopped packaging for all intents and purposes
[08:50] <LaserJock> I need to cut back to like 10
[08:50] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Right now I am perfecting my system admin abilities
[08:50] <ajmitch> I've got SoC & other work to do for edgy
[08:50] <LaserJock> I've seriously delayed my PhD by a couple months at least for Dapper
[08:50] <ajmitch> so it'll be a bit of main stuff
[08:52] <LaserJock> arggh, I'm turning into a deve elitest ;(
[08:52] <LaserJock> s/deve/dev/
[08:52] <Kyral_FreeBSD> hehe
[08:52] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I left so I wouldn't become that
[08:52] <LaserJock> I'm really not elitest, but I do see things from a different perspective
[08:52] <ajmitch> LaserJock: take a week or two off, relax
[08:53] <LaserJock> I think we should have a "take a user to work" day
[08:53] <LaserJock> where a random user has to spend a day working with us
[08:53] <highvoltage> hehe. that sounds funny
[08:53] <LaserJock> I want people to spend a typical day with elmo, or mdz
[08:54] <ajmitch> scary
[08:54] <ajmitch> can you imagine what they'd be like after a day with elmo?
[08:54] <LaserJock> lol
[08:54] <LaserJock> "be afraid, be very afraid" :-)
[08:56] <LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: it will be Ubuntu, you know it will ;-)
[08:56] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Though more likely than not I will be "competing" with you guys :P
[08:56] <ajmitch> probably
[08:56] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Nah, it won't be Ubuntu
[08:56] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I already know that
[08:56] <LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: no competition, we will blow you outta the water ;-)
[08:56] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:56] <Kyral_FreeBSD> what have I said before
[08:57] <Kyral_FreeBSD> The great thing about this Open Source world, is that we all have the right to choose
[08:57] <Kyral_FreeBSD> there is no one true perfect
[08:57] <Kyral_FreeBSD> just everyone's perception of it, and we have the right to use whatever we wish, without anyone stopping us
[08:58] <LaserJock> only our own ignorance and stupidity :-)
[08:58] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Every Distro has its benefits
[08:58] <Kyral_FreeBSD> every Distro is someone's idea of "perfect"
[08:58] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Jeez I sound like Obi-Wan Kenobi or something
[08:59] <Bazzi> Like Obi Wan, you sound.
[08:59] <Gloubiboulga> :)
[08:59] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I will most likely revisit Slackware and Gentoo soon
[09:00] <Bazzi> While your points are definately true, too much choice hurts.
[09:00] <LaserJock> I do think it is a bit different, but I understand what your saying
[09:00] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Now that I have played with BSD, I can understand what DRobbins was trying to do with Portage
[09:01] <LaserJock> hence the port in portage ;-)
[09:01] <Bazzi> ports/portage is a nice concept :)
[09:02] <Kyral_FreeBSD> perhaps learn Perl and Python
[09:02] <Bazzi> a more user-friendly gentoo (gentoo users will stab me for that) would exceed any available linux experience yet IMO.
[09:02] <Kyral_FreeBSD> my ultimate goal...is to create my own distro
[09:02] <Kyral_FreeBSD> just for me
[09:02] <LaserJock> Bazzi: I found Ubuntu by looking for a binary version of Gentoo
[09:03] <LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: for me that would be an abysmal failure
[09:03] <Bazzi> Heh, the irony :)
[09:03] <Kyral_FreeBSD> LaserJock: Hehe, I will most likely fail the first few times
[09:03] <LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: I'd rather have people who know what they are doing do the OS for me
[09:03] <LaserJock> :-)
[09:03] <Kyral_FreeBSD> but like I have said
[09:03] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I learn best by doing
[09:03] <Kyral_FreeBSD> hence my drive for LFS
[09:04] <LaserJock> yeah, makes sense
[09:04] <Bazzi> hence my drive for creating my own local repository and debs
[09:04] <Bazzi> so same here :)
[09:04] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I got too complacent with Ubuntu
[09:04] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I lost my edge
[09:04] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ArchLinux woke me up again
[09:05] <LaserJock> complacent? I must not have been cracking the whip enough :-)
[09:05] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I meant in terms of understanding the system
[09:06] <LaserJock> oh, I gave that up a long time ago, but then I'm a chemist so I can get away with it most of the time :p
[09:07] <LaserJock> Chris, I really do hope you continue to hang out here every once in a while, even if you aren't actively working on Ubuntu
[09:07] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I will
[09:07] <highvoltage> Kyral_FreeBSD: i hope so too
[09:07] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Heck I once I get SHCD working I'll need to package it :D
[09:08] <highvoltage> Kyral_FreeBSD: mostly because of your HURD interests :)
[09:08] <highvoltage> we need more GNU supporters in Ubuntu
[09:08] <LaserJock> what's GNU? j/k
[09:08] <Bazzi> heh, an Ubuntu/HURD version would be sweet
[09:09] <azeem> it's Hurd
[09:09] <azeem> not HURD
[09:09] <ajmitch> hi azeem
[09:09] <Bazzi> w/e
[09:09] <azeem> Andrew!
[09:09] <bddebian> Uh oh, you have awoken azeem :-)
[09:10] <LaserJock> I don't really understand what the big deal is with Hurd, TBH. What is supposed to be the advantage?
[09:10] <ajmitch> azeem: how's it going?
[09:10] <azeem> fine, am going to the UK for a weekend trip
[09:10] <azeem> ajmitch: are you a KDE user
[09:10] <azeem> ?
[09:11] <ajmitch> no, I use GNOME
[09:11] <highvoltage> LaserJock: well, there's technical differences, and then there's social differences
[09:11] <Bazzi> LaserJock: well as far as I heard it's a more clean approach to a kernel and more lightweight
[09:11] <highvoltage> LaserJock: it might be best to just read the propoganda on the hurd website :)
[09:11] <LaserJock> highvoltage: lol
[09:11] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Its something new!
[09:11] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Thats what!
[09:11] <azeem> ajmitch: ok
[09:12] <LaserJock> azeem: how about you?
[09:12] <azeem> GNOME
[09:12] <azeem> if that was the question
[09:12] <azeem> well, ion right now, actually
[09:12] <highvoltage> it will also provide some competition to the linux kernel guys.
[09:12] <bddebian> Kyral_FreeBSD: New?  It's older than Linux ;-P
[09:12] <highvoltage> put some pressure on them to clean linux up a bit
[09:12] <highvoltage> it would really be nice if they did a bugfix version of linux.
[09:12] <azeem> I switched to ion for debconf, because I didn't want to get evil stares for displaying an Ubuntu desktop :)
[09:12] <LaserJock> azeem: yeah, that was the question. I float between gnome, kde and openbox. mostly gnome though
[09:12] <ajmitch> highvoltage: it hasn't really put much pressure on so far :)
[09:12] <LaserJock> azeem: lol
[09:12] <highvoltage> ion3++
[09:13] <ajmitch> azeem: I'm sure quite a few people would have been running ubuntu anyway :)
[09:13] <highvoltage> ajmitch: well, in it's current state, it's far from competition level :)
[09:13] <azeem> ajmitch: I was asking because abauer was wondering about the opensync-enabled kitchensync stuff
[09:13] <ajmitch> ah right
[09:13] <ajmitch> I've got kde on the laptop as well
[09:14] <chillywilly> congrats on the release guys
[09:14] <chillywilly> :)
[09:16] <bddebian> Heya chillywilly
[09:16] <LaserJock> hmm, I need to figure out how to use screen as my window manager
[09:16] <bddebian> hehe
[09:17] <LaserJock> I can do one window at a time, but I haven't gotten farther then that :-)
[09:17] <azeem> it's hard to choose between ion and screen
[09:17] <ajmitch> how useful is it?
[09:18] <ajmitch> hi siretart_
[09:18] <hub> hi
[09:18] <ajmitch> hi hub
[09:18] <hub> why do Debian developer complain about dpatch?
[09:18] <hub> and what is recommended to use instead?
[09:19] <azeem> hub: quilt, maybe
[09:19] <ajmitch> they complain when you add dpatch to a package which isn't using it
[09:19] <azeem> but dpatch should be fine
[09:19] <hub> like of handling a HUGE patch was easy
[09:19] <ajmitch> hub: asking why debian developers complain about something is futile
[09:20] <hub> azeem: I tend to use cdbs abd simple-patch-sys
[09:20] <azeem> that's fine IMHO
[09:20] <hub> ajmitch: at least that gave me the answer
[09:20] <azeem> however, if you modify existing packages, it might make merging harder later on
[09:20] <hub> that it is "turning into dpatch" that they don't like
[09:20] <hub> azeem: yeah I get that.
[09:20] <ajmitch> yes, see joeyh's complaint from last year
[09:21] <hub> ajmitch: I was reading that: http://www.kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/a_bad_taste_in_the_mouth_detailed_ubuntu_patch_review.html
[09:21] <hub> ajmitch: probably the one you are talking about
[09:21] <ajmitch> yeah
[09:21] <ajmitch> http://www.kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/dpatch_dbs_etc_etc_etc_etc_considered_harmful.html
[09:21] <ajmitch> also
[09:21] <azeem> well, patch systems are a pretty touchy subject to some people
[09:23] <LaserJock> hehe, maybe I should ask debian-devel for contributions to the patch system section of the packaging guide ;p
[09:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: we'll thank you for inciting a flamewar later
[09:23] <Kyral_FreeBSD> If I contribute anything in the near future, it will be Xen Kernel packages for Ubuntu
[09:24] <ajmitch> good luck, it would not be trivial to integrate with all the other patches
[09:24] <bddebian> LaserJock, ajmitch: :-)
[09:24] <LaserJock> azeem: sounds cryptic
[09:24] <LaserJock> azeem: what will it do?
[09:24] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Oh who said it would integrate the other patches
[09:25] <ajmitch> then it wouldn't be accepted
[09:25] <Kyral_FreeBSD> psh
[09:25] <ajmitch> and it'd be no better than the already existing xen kernel packages others have supplied
[09:25] <Kyral_FreeBSD> frankly I'd like to see the Beyond patchset
[09:25] <ajmitch> then talk to the kernel team
[09:29] <azeem> LaserJock: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/07/msg00480.html talks about it a bit
[09:29] <azeem> www.dpkg.org seems to be down
[09:31] <LaserJock> azeem: hmm, cool
[09:33] <jamessan> yeah, dpkg.org seems to have been down for a while now :(
[09:34] <jamessan> had to use the google cache the other day to read up on moving conffiles
[09:34] <ajmitch> blame keybuk :)
[09:35] <hub> when will the edgy repository be open>
[09:35] <bddebian> chillywilly: :-)
[09:35] <bddebian> haha
[09:35] <bddebian> Where's keybuk when you need him? :-)
[09:36] <hub> and the debian sync?
[09:36] <LaserJock> hub: it'll be a while, they will need to change LP, etc.
[09:37] <ajmitch> hub: when it's ready
[09:38] <LaserJock> you can tell ajmitch is a DD ;-)
[09:38] <ajmitch> haha
[09:38] <bddebian> hehe
[09:42] <ajmitch> so now all the bugs you fixed in dapper.. push the fixes to debian :)
[09:42] <LaserJock> "the loathsome dpatch" ?
[09:43] <bddebian> Bah, F Debian.. ;-P
[09:43] <LaserJock> bddebian: today just isn't my day
[09:44] <bddebian> LaserJock: Why man?
[09:44] <ajmitch> bddebian: so you want to package all the new upstream versions & new packages yourself then?
[09:44] <bddebian> ajmitch: Suure, why not? ;-P
[09:45] <ajmitch> fine
[09:45] <LaserJock> bddebian: I'm pissed off and tired :-)
[09:45] <ajmitch> I'll see you in a few years
[09:45] <bddebian> LaserJock: Why pissed off?
[09:45] <bddebian> Of course better than being pissed on, I always say.. ;-P
[09:45] <jpatrick> bddebian: haha
[09:46] <LaserJock> bddebian: long story, started in -docs went to -offtopic and then I was just calming down when I see that dpatch is crap and Ubuntu is of no use to Debian ;-)
[09:46] <azeem> I think joeyh is about the only Debian guy who doesn't like or at least tolerate dpatch
[09:47] <azeem> cdbs is a much different matter, though
[09:47] <LaserJock> to me it seems like Debian guys always talk about "This is the way we do it in Debian" when in fact they really haven't a clue what each other do or think, but then I'm a little grouchy today
[09:48] <ajmitch> azeem: simply because cdbs is a black box far too often
[09:48] <jamessan> there is a fair share of people that don't like dpatch, I'd say.
[09:48] <Spec> LaserJock: that brings to mind .desktop files, some DDs fix 'em, others don't
[09:48] <jamessan> ajmitch: agreed. I've actually been considering moving some of my pacakges away from using it
[09:48] <LaserJock> Spec: exactly
[09:48] <LaserJock> jamessan: what do they use?
[09:49] <bddebian> Spec: I've noticed some bug reports where they don't even want them
[09:50] <jamessan> LaserJock: quilt is gaining popularity, I think.  I really like it.  there's also the good ol' fashion 'handle patches yourself' method
[09:50] <LaserJock> yeah, unfortunately I think with .desktops it is much better to get the authors to include it than to ask debian
[09:50] <Spec> well, the guy I talked to was helpful, so not all DDs are evil ;)
[09:50] <jpatrick> LaserJock: I use simple-patchsys
[09:50] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Sometimes I like how simple PKGBUILDs are
[09:50] <ajmitch> Spec: they're not?
[09:50] <LaserJock> Spec: no, not at all
[09:50] <Spec> nope, not all.
[09:50] <Spec> in fact, there could be some of 'em lurking around us *scared*
[09:51] <ajmitch> Spec: never!
[09:51] <LaserJock> you just have to find the good DDs amongst all the cruft ;-)
[09:51] <LaserJock> does simple-patchsys only work with cdbs?
[09:51] <ajmitch> yes, it was an example written for cdbs
[09:52] <ajmitch> to show how a patch system could be used with it
[09:52] <ajmitch> people then decided to use it for real packages
[09:53] <LaserJock> well, I think it is valuble to use *something* rather then having everything in the .diff.gz
[09:53] <ajmitch> bzr! :)
[09:53] <LaserJock> but beyond that I'm not really sure what would recommend one system over another
[09:53] <LaserJock> I tend to stay away from cdbs because of the black magic
[09:54] <LaserJock> but that is probably just because I haven't dug into it
[09:54] <jamessan> LaserJock: well, you can still do that yourself. no need for a patch system.
[09:54] <LaserJock> jamessan: right
[09:55] <jamessan> that's how the Vim package was done before we switched to quilt :)
[09:55] <LaserJock> I'd really love to get some knowledgable MOTUs and DDs to help with the Packaging Guide for edgy *hint*
[09:56] <ajmitch> LaserJock: sure, I'll see if I can find some :)
[09:56] <LaserJock> doh
[09:56] <ajmitch> :)
[09:56] <LaserJock> I really want to be thorough with the patch systems this time
[09:56] <ajmitch> don't worry, I'll try & help out
[09:57] <LaserJock> I'm sort of waiting to see what Ian does with the Ubuntu Developer's Reference though, to see how much I can do
[09:57] <ajmitch> it scares me how there have been several thousand forum posts since the dapper release
[09:57] <ajmitch> have you discussed it with him?
[09:58] <ajmitch> maybe you could help write it?
[09:58] <bddebian> LaserJock: I'd love to help but I'm not knowledgeable :-)
[09:58] <LaserJock> bddebian: sure you are, this is for newbs even fresher than me :-)
[09:59] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I talked to him a bit when I first started the Packaging Guide but he was so busy with Firefox, et. al. that I dont' think it got very far
[09:59] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm going to try to offer to help again
[10:00] <ajmitch> he's probably still recovering from the firefox nightmare
[10:00] <LaserJock> I think the combination of the Developer's Reference and Packaging Guide could end up being the most complete coverage of Debian pacakging available
[10:00] <ajmitch> it's amazing that it's so popular, really
[10:01] <ajmitch> right, and the 2 docs can cover different area
[10:01] <ajmitch> sigh, it's light outside
[10:02] <LaserJock> right, and I GPL'd the Packaging Guide so we can share info easily to make them complimentary
[10:02] <ajmitch> probably not worth trying to get back to sleep
[10:20] <ajmitch> using FC5, I realise how much I should appreciate ubuntu
[10:30] <Spec> What's the best way to rebuild vim with perl enabled?
[10:30] <Spec> (and make a package)
[10:37] <ogra> Spec, you mean like the vim-perl package ?
[10:37] <Spec> bah, always making things easy
[10:37] <LaserJock> lol
[10:38] <bddebian> heh
[10:43] <zul> cd /exit
[10:43] <zul> oops./.
[10:56] <Kyral_FreeBSD> hehe I dig this "unless" thing in Perl
[11:22] <bddebian> Later folks, Congrats again!
[11:22] <crimsun> thanks, deity!
[11:22] <bddebian> :'-(
[11:41] <crimsun> wow, go irssi.
[11:41] <crimsun> /ignore -channels #ubuntu * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS
[11:44] <LaserJock> hehe
[11:44] <Marce> i have this without channels :>
[11:46] <crimsun> in all the years I've spent on irc, this is the closest I've come to feeling overwhelmed
[11:48] <LaserJock> wow
[11:49] <LaserJock> I wonder how the bots are doing
[11:52] <crimsun> a bit lagged
[11:52] <LaserJock> oh my, isn't there an overflow room or something
[11:52] <crimsun> we'd fill that, too, probably
[11:52] <crimsun> this is like ramping up for grad school all over again
[11:54] <LaserJock> wow
[11:58] <LaserJock> it's like having 50 tvs on in your house full blast at the same time with different stations