[12:04] <KaiL> those tools so into that direction, but this could be done way more intelligent
[12:04] <KaiL> s/so/go/
[12:05] <crimsun> doesn't g-a-i enable repos automatically?
[12:05] <ogra> yep
[12:05] <mdke> the proper way to implement these things in my opinion is not via a program which does everything you think users might want, but ensuring that the users are given the choice to install/activate things when they actually need it.
[12:05] <KaiL> crimsun, if you click that icon, yes
[12:05] <mdke> catch-all programs are just not the way forward
[12:05] <ogra> and first run wizards in particular here
[12:07] <crimsun> sorry, but I think I'm missing the gist of what KaiL's suggesting
[12:07] <crimsun> afaict, at least the repos and the video drivers issues are moot
[12:08] <KaiL> really?
[12:08] <crimsun> well, yes, doesn't g-a-i address the repos?
[12:08] <KaiL> I guess arround 80% of the work in the support chats is about how to enable 3D drivers (esp. the damn ATI one)
[12:08] <crimsun> and l-r-m has most non-free drivers
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[12:09] <KaiL> and don#t ask me, how many questions are to be answered with "enable universe"
[12:09] <KaiL> l-r-m has them, that's not the problem - but they aren't enabled
[12:09] <crimsun> and they shouldn't be by default if they're non-free, at least imo
[12:10] <KaiL> and the users really need to be informed, that they are there, BEFORE browsing to nvidia.com or ati.com...
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[12:11] <crimsun> is that really something Ubuntu can change? Regardless of how often one says "we include $foo", people are still going to run off and prefer $foo from location $bar
[12:11] <KaiL> with most other systems, you need to dl the driver from the chip vendor, so the users do this "automatically" ;)
[12:11] <KaiL> for that an icon on the desktop "enable proprietary 3d driver"
[12:12] <KaiL> clicking on that also removes this icon
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[12:13] <ogra> thats bad UI design 
[12:13] <crimsun> I agree
[12:14] <crimsun> that and it adds unnecessary complexity to first-run or whatever
[12:14] <ogra> you force the user to click it, regardless if he wants the drivers or not, just to make that icon go away
[12:14] <KaiL> of just add an X-config-tool, which could also be used for multiscreen config and to give monitor timings manually ;)
[12:14] <ogra> i think thats in the SoC queue
[12:15] <KaiL> ..and this tool gets a simple "enable proprietary driver" switch (might be even required for some cards to have multiscreen - ATI X1xxx...)
[12:16] <KaiL> ogra, yes, one of the usefull SoC ideas
[12:16] <KaiL> "expose without hardware accelleration" is one of the useless ones ;)
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[12:19] <KaiL> putting gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 into main or restricted (don#t know about it's licence) might also be something to think about - just to stop the begging for MP3...
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[12:20] <KaiL> it's one of the very very rare situations, where saying "it's unfree, so we won't use it" only scares of users imho
[12:20] <mirak> is there a way to run the ubuntu dekstop iso installer from an already installed ubuntu ? I want to install to another partition of my hard drive
[12:20] <mdke> alternatively, adding an option to the music player which asks the user if they want to install the codec when they try and play an mp3, that would work.
[12:21] <mdke> mirak: you just reboot with the cd in the drive. But ask on #ubuntu if you need help
[12:21] <Burgwork> have you guys seen the CommonHooker on the wiki (not my name)
[12:21] <mirak> mdke: I don't want to reboot nor burn a cd
[12:21] <mirak> that's why I ask
[12:21] <mdke> mirak: as I say, ask in #ubuntu if you need help
[12:22] <mirak> mdke: nobody answer
[12:22] <KaiL> mdke, asking might be a solution, where the codec can't be shipped, yes
[12:22] <mirak> I just need to now if that's a particular application, or if I could install the .deb
[12:22] <KaiL> maybe that could be even used for rare codecs, you won't need to have installed normally
[12:23] <mdke> mirak: I'm afraid that if nobody answers, there is nothing else we can do. You could try the forums or mailing lists
[12:25] <mirak> mdke: I know I can use special kernels to boot on iso
[12:25] <mirak> I will do that probably
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[12:26] <KaiL> mdke, specific for mp3, fluendo could also help to reeable features like "burn mp3 files as audio cd"
[12:27] <KaiL> afaik there's currently no really good option for that
[12:27] <mdke> dude, all those features are available
[12:27] <mdke> you just need to install the plugin, that's all
[12:27] <mdke> both rhythmbox and serpentine will do that
[12:27] <mdke> and banshee... etc
[12:28] <KaiL> ah, ok
[12:28] <KaiL> I thought, there was something... 
[12:30] <KaiL> ah, it was only a problem to create mp3 files - not really something, we want to support ;)
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[12:30] <jono> hey
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[12:55] <BenC> so is edgy ready for uploads?
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[12:56] <pitti> BenC: no, it's not open yet
[12:56] <pitti> BenC: dapper-security awaits fixes :)
[12:56] <BenC> is it the 4th or 6th that it opens?
=== pitti doesn't know
[12:57] <BenC> pitti: did zul send you the hoary changelog?
[12:57] <pitti> BenC: yes, he did
[12:57] <BenC> pitti: Yep, preparing dapper upload right now actually
[12:57] <BenC> pitti: I checked the diff/dpatch's/build, so if it's ok with you, give him the go ahead and he can upload it
[12:57] <ajmitch> BenC: you'll be switching your git tree over to 2.6.17 quite soon then?
[12:58] <BenC> ajmitch: soon? It's already done and building on all our architectures
[12:58] <pitti> BenC: erm, sorry, I meant dapper-updates is open; dapper-security is still in progress
[12:58] <BenC> all my machines are running 2.6.17-git now
[12:58] <pitti> BenC: yep, wil do
[12:58] <ajmitch> hm, ok
[12:58] <BenC> pitti: Should I upload to -updates or -security?
=== ajmitch didn't see that on the kernel.org/git page
[12:58] <pitti> BenC: -security, but please don't upload yet
[12:59] <ajmitch> but got clone is still running here, so I'll find out soon :)
[12:59] <pitti> BenC: elmo is working on getting d-security going; I'll ping you when the first test is successful
[12:59] <BenC> ajmitch: ubuntu-2.6 is 2.6.17-git synced now, and ubuntu-dapper.git is the dapper tree of course :)
[12:59] <ajmitch> BenC: right :)
[12:59] <BenC> pitti: ok
[01:00] <BenC> ajmitch: as soon as edgy opens, I'll have it uploaded with linux-restricted-modules and linux-meta
[01:00] <ajmitch> great
[01:00] <BenC> I want to be the first to unleash chaos on edgy
[01:00] <ajmitch> darn
[01:00] <ajmitch> I wanted to be the first with a sysvinit upload
[01:00] <ajmitch> but the kernel should come first
[01:01] <ajmitch> then we can break the rest
[01:05] <pitti> good night everyone
[01:07] <Burgwork> ajmitch, that a SELinux fix for sysvinti?
[01:07] <ajmitch> Burgwork: sure
[01:07] <ajmitch> I might as well start on it now
[01:07] <ajmitch> at least until sysvinit is dropped & replaced with something completely different :)
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[01:10] <Burgwork> ajmitch, bring on the crack!
[01:11] <LaserJock> or the new Edubuntu term "boo"
[01:14] <jsgotangco> boo?
[01:15] <jsgotangco> hmm
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[01:15] <jsgotangco> would a static 32bit skype work on an amd64 install
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[01:15] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: it should
[01:15] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[01:15] <ajmitch> other 32-bit apps like games, vmware, etc work fine
[01:15] <jsgotangco> alright
=== jsgotangco burns the amd64 iso
[01:17] <BenC> jsgotangco: even a dynamic 32-bit skype should work
[01:17] <HrdwrBoB> if you instal ia32-libs
[01:17] <BenC> right
[01:17] <jsgotangco> thanks i should try that
[01:17] <HrdwrBoB> you may run into random problems though (eg vmware tries to load the 64bit pam libs
[01:18] <BenC> hmm, haven't had that problem with vmware
[01:18] <ajmitch> neither have I
[01:18] <ajmitch> BenC: no joy with sparc64 & 2.6.17 yet?
[01:18] <BenC> ajmitch: sparc64 is working, it's just my e3k type machine that isn't
[01:19] <ajmitch> right
[01:19] <BenC> 6 cpu's with non-zero based id's tends to cause problems every so often in the kernel
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[01:19] <ajmitch> similar to what was happening with the T1?
[01:19] <BenC> programmers always expect the boot cpu to be id=0 :)
[01:20] <BenC> don't think so, I think that was different
[01:21] <ajmitch> sigh, might be quicker for me to tar up the git tree & copy it to my home box
[01:21] <ajmitch> rsync is taking an age
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[01:39] <Evaso2> hi guys, is anybody working on the pptp network-manager plugins packaging?
[01:40] <dieman> the mirror storm is subsiding
[01:43] <ajmitch> dieman: got any stats yet?
[01:44] <dieman> ive got logs
[01:44] <dieman> i could make up some stats
[01:44] <dieman> any suggestions on stats applications
[01:44] <dieman> aside from having awstats chew on it?
[01:44] <dieman> Server uptime: 6 hours 40 minutes 55 seconds
[01:44] <dieman> Total accesses: 117548 - Total Traffic: 888.2 GB
[01:44] <dieman> theres info since the last tweak i made
[01:44] <dieman> it was doing about 500mbps all day
[01:44] <dieman> its not as heavy duty as the releases.u.c setup
[01:45] <ajmitch> not bad
[01:45] <ajmitch> I wonder how the .se mirror fared this time
[01:45] <dieman> probally better
[01:45] <dieman> i know that machine is like 2-3x more beefy
[01:45] <dieman> im doing this with a dual 933 p3 and 1gb ram
[01:45] <dieman> and a pile of disk
[01:46] <ajmitch> for breezy it was running at about 2.5Gbps for awhile
[01:46] <dieman> yeah
[01:46] <crimsun> if se. was hosting the leaked beta iso, it probably got hammered
[01:46] <ajmitch> heh
[01:46] <ajmitch> crimsun: 0-day?
[01:46] <dieman> heh
[01:46] <crimsun> those wacky kids
[01:46] <dieman> im guessing whoever runs lighttpd
[01:46] <dieman> rather than apache
[01:46] <dieman> depending on config, too
[01:47] <dieman> those *damn* download managerts though
[01:47] <dieman> i set our box up for 1 connection per ip
[01:47] <dieman> and limited connections for 10/min/ip
[01:47] <ajmitch> poor kids who can't spawn 20 connections at a time
[01:47] <dieman> i was getting 80 connects per second
[01:47] <dieman> until i did that
[01:47] <dieman> then it was like 8 connects/sec
[01:49] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:52] <dieman> win 2
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[01:57] <maswan> ajmitch: only about 2Gbit/s, the rest was non-mirror university traffic. but clise. :)
[01:58] <maswan> http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistics/ftp/monitordata/
[01:58] <maswan> http://farbror.acc.umu.se/stats/monitordata/index.shtml
[01:58] <maswan> that was today. the second graph delivered two isos out of ram. :)
[01:59] <ajmitch> not bad :)
[01:59] <maswan> it took some work, but we did manage to get our 2Gbit/s pretty full after a while.
[02:01] <ajmitch> the bottom graphs on the first url show the peka when breezy was released quite nicely
[02:01] <ajmitch> I wonder how it'll look after a week or two for dapper
[02:01] <maswan> yeah, and before that you can make out sarge. the hoary peak is smaller though, but that's partially rrd's fault
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[02:09] <maswan> farbror is the most impressive one, this round. :)
[02:10] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:12] <maswan> I wish I would someday have enough to meet demand, so one coudl see how high that peak would be.
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[02:27] <crimsun> fabbione: ping (unlikely)
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[02:39] <fabbione> crimsun: ?
[02:39] <fabbione> i am heading to bed right now..
[02:39] <fabbione> so better be fast
[02:40] <crimsun> fabbione: sorry, was going to ask if you can eyeball a free_irq/iounmap issue on sparc for me
[02:40] <crimsun> s/issue/fix/
[02:40] <crimsun> I can paste in -kernel
[02:40] <fabbione> crimsun: not now. i am too drunk
[02:40] <fabbione> tomorrow.. maybe
[02:40] <fabbione> or file a bug in malone, even better
[02:40] <crimsun> oh, ok. Thanks, sleep well!
[02:41] <fabbione> assign it to me and tomorrow we will look at it
[02:41] <crimsun> thanks
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[03:08] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:09] <GameOver69> hey can someone help me with network manager
[03:10] <GameOver69> it seems to no longer find any of my wirelness hardware, thus no networks to choose from
[03:11] <Burgundavia> GameOver69: please try in #ubuntu
[03:11] <Burgundavia> this is not a support channel
[03:11] <GameOver69> Burgundavia, i did but no one responded
[03:11] <Burgundavia> I would try the forums or the mailing list
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[03:14] <axisys> hi all eversince I upgraded to dapper my gnomenaker does not work.. i get this error message.http://pastebin.com/752583
[03:14] <axisys> gnomebaker rather
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[03:19] <zul> hey
[03:19] <Burgundavia> axisys: this is not a support channel, please use #ubuntu
[03:19] <bddebian> heya zul
[03:20] <zul> hey bddebian 
[03:20] <ajmitch> zul!
[03:21] <axisys> Burgundavia: ubuntu chnl suggested i bring it up to this chnl
[03:21] <axisys> i also see this issue in the forum 
[03:21] <Burgundavia> axisys: that is a bug, please file a bug
[03:22] <Burgundavia> axisys: who suggested it to you?
[03:22] <axisys> delire
[03:22] <jsgotangco> axisys: it won't get noticed if you do it in a channel, it will have better coverage in a bug list
[03:23] <jsgotangco> because it'll appear in the maintainer's inbox
[03:23] <zul> ajmitch!
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[03:25] <bddebian> Heya tseng
[03:26] <tseng> hi
[03:27] <ajmitch> hi tseng 
[03:28] <tseng> hi ajmitch 
[03:28] <Burgundavia> does anybody have an rsync line to get my rc image to final?
[03:30] <zul> nope..
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[03:32] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: rsync to the latest daily build, perhaps
[03:33] <ajmitch> since that's what I grabbed
[03:33] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: daily-live no longer seems to be wokring
[03:33] <ajmitch> ah
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[03:41] <delire> Burgundavia: has there been any talk of bug-submission-automation from Gnome applications, where if a related process has segfaulted/failed, captured output is submitted at the users consent? IIRC Kde has something of this ilk.
[03:41] <Burgundavia> delire: yes, and it is in the works for edgy
[03:42] <delire> great, it is very hard to convince new users to submit bugs. they get as far as malone and shy away.
[03:43] <LaserJock> delire: do you give them the specific url for a new bug?
[03:45] <delire> LaserJock: i have in the past but only on the odd occassion does it reach submission.
[03:46] <delire> anyway, it's extremely late here. i'm off. congratulations. a stellar release ;)
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[05:06] <Burgundavia> oh joy ff and tb 1.5.0.4
[05:09] <jdong|coreduo> yeah, wonderful isn't it?
[05:09] <jdong|coreduo> poor security team
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[07:45] <dholbach> good morning, party folks! :-)
[07:48] <TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
[07:48] <dholbach> heya TheMuso
[07:48] <dholbach> orca as default for 2.16.x, eh?
[07:48] <TheMuso> Indeed.
[07:48] <dholbach> sounds like a good idea, we got it in already :)
[07:49] <TheMuso> Yep.
=== TheMuso is itching for edgy so he can update orca in universe. :)
[07:49] <dholbach> main! we should try to move it to main :-)
[07:50] <Burgundavia> TheMuso: is it worth my time to form some contacts with disabled groups here in Victoria for sustained testing?
[07:50] <Burgundavia> ie: over the course of a release
[07:50] <TheMuso> Burgundavia: Yes please.
[07:50] <TheMuso> dholbach: Lets get it updated first. :)
[07:50] <dholbach> yeah
=== ajmitch wants f-spot in main! :)
[07:51] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: I would go for that
[07:51] <Burgundavia> f-spot and tomboy
[07:51] <ajmitch> yeah, they're on mdz's ideas list
[07:51] <ajmitch> so I think they;re good candidates
[07:52] <Burgundavia> also upstream is debating them
[07:52] <Burgundavia> beagle might be a good target for edgy
[07:52] <Burgundavia> and NM
[07:53] <Burgundavia> actually, I thinkt he dapper release is going to carry a lot of really good people to us
[07:54] <dsas> wasn't nm a target for breezy and dapper? <ducks>
[07:54] <HiddenWolf> Burgundavia: please, beagle in the default install? we just got memory consumption down a few MB...
[07:54] <Burgundavia> dsas: yes, it was
[07:54] <Burgundavia> it still has issues
[07:54] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf: well, we did for an obivious reason :)
[07:55] <dsas> Burgundavia: Yes, it still doesn't work for me :(
[07:55] <Burgundavia> it works for me, it just breaks with static IPs and few other corner cases
[07:56] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: corner case?
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[07:56] <dsas> Well, it works for me until I try and use WEP etc. So it's probably more of a wpasupplicant issue.
[07:56] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I don't have any computers that don't have static IPs
[07:56] <Burgundavia> yep
[07:56] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you're a special case though :)
[07:56] <ivoks> very special case :)
[07:56] <Burgundavia> I ran into it at a client site, where they had no DHCP
[07:57] <Burgundavia> very annoying
[07:57] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I have a hard time believing that, but whatever
[07:57] <LaserJock> :-)
=== bgertzfield zzz
[07:58] <LaserJock> I'd have a hard time with DHCP, "what the heck? what is my IP?"
[07:58] <ivoks> LaserJock: create reservations for IPs
[07:59] <ivoks> urgh... laptop battery
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[08:17] <Burgundavia> TheMuso: doesn't have to be GPL
[08:18] <TheMuso> Burgundavia: Right.
[08:18] <TheMuso> I just don't like forks in an area where everybody is trying to unify development as much as possible.
[08:18] <TheMuso> And, he has done some work for IBM.
[08:18] <Burgundavia> LSR is an IBM thing?
=== TheMuso may be too sinical.
[08:18] <TheMuso> Yep.
[08:19] <Burgundavia> hence why they are unwilling to work on the Sun backed Orca
[08:19] <TheMuso> And as far as I have read elsewhere, it is free for non-commercial use.
[08:19] <TheMuso> Thats true.
[08:21] <TheMuso> I guess I am just getting annoyed at the fact that there is more fragmentation in the accessibility for GNOME/KDE.
[08:22] <TheMuso> Where does the CPL stand in terms of re-distribution anyway?
[08:22] <Burgundavia> no idea
[08:22] <TheMuso> hmmm ok
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[08:32] <hendry> is Ubuntu also moving to oftc?
[08:32] <dholbach> no
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[08:33] <pitti> Good morning
[08:34] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
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[08:34] <hendry> oh great
[08:34] <ajmitch> and good morning pitti_ :)
[08:34] <hendry> freenode and oftec
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[08:45] <kagou> hi
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[09:03] <HiddenWolf> btw, how are the download servers holding up?
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[09:21] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuOEMRedistributionTools <-- hmm, interesting
[09:21] <ajmitch> a SoC spec?
[09:21] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:22] <Burgundavia> I like the 2nd part
[09:22] <jsgotangco> interesting
[09:22] <Burgundavia> would be nice if the 2nd part was toolkit agnostic
=== ajmitch gets back to writing some more spec
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[09:30] <jdub> Burgundavia: we could do that by launching sabayon during the oem install process :)
[09:30] <jsgotangco> oui?
[09:30] <Burgundavia> jdub: that would be very cool. The part that really grabbed was the idea of building an iso at the end of the process
[09:31] <jdub> that's not the meaning of 'disk images'
[09:31] <Burgundavia> ah
[09:32] <jdub> the OEM installer is for setting up an HDD image
[09:32] <jdub> which is then replicated for inclusion in each device
[09:32] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[09:32] <Burgundavia> ok, cool
=== jsgotangco wasn't able to check this release's OEM methodology
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[11:10] <jdub> mildly insane: installing in vmware from ubuntu-alternate image while the image is being downloaded :-)
[11:10] <seb128> hey jdub
[11:10] <jdub> morning seb128!
[11:10] <ajmitch> evening jdub 
[11:10] <jdub> morning ajmitch!
=== Hobbsee winces.  morning?
[11:11] <seb128> jdub: any news about GUADEC?
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[11:12] <jdub> oh poo, i totally forgot to mail quim
[11:12] <jdub> i'll do that right now
[11:13] <seb128> so it was somewhat useful to ask ;)
[11:13] <jdub> yeah!
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[11:23] <seb128> infinity, Kamion, mdz: I've just uploaded pessulus 0.9.2 to dapper-updates, don't get scared by the new version, we ship it to universe but that's a GNOME component since 2.14 and that version is a tarball with translations updates only for GNOME 2.14.2
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[11:26] <Fujitsu> Yay for pessulus...
=== vuntz|work hugs seb128
=== seb128 hugs vuntz|work
[11:26] <ajmitch> yay, planet ubuntu^Wmdke
[11:26] <seb128> vuntz|work: you like when we talk about pessulus, don't you? ;)
[11:27] <vuntz|work> seb128: yes. It gets highlighted :-)
[11:27] <Fujitsu> pessulus is a really Good Thing :D
[11:27] <seb128> ah ah
[11:28] <jsgotangco> ajmitch: horay for his pybloxom hehehe
[11:28] <kagou> do we know how large is ubuntu dapper by section (main / universe / ...) with or without sources ?
[11:29] <jsgotangco> vuntz|work: you'll get locked in a room by ogra for pessulus in edubuntu soon =)
[11:30] <vuntz|work> jsgotangco: thanks for telling me. Now I know I have to run :-)
=== vuntz|work looks at ogra
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[11:46] <sivang> re all
[11:49] <mdz> mvo: how are we doing with the dist-upgrader? ready to switch it on?
[11:49] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[11:49] <Fujitsu> The big red switch, this time?
[11:49] <mvo> mdz: its uploaded and waiting for approval
[11:50] <mdz> it remains to be seen how big and red it is; we've never thrown this particular switch before
[11:50] <mdz> mvo: oh, ok
[11:50] <mvo> mdz: it did a lot of testing last night, it looks all good
=== mvo is ready to press is small red button then :)
[11:51] <mvo> s/is/his/
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[11:51] <dholbach> mvo: judging by the amounts of new comments on the blog post about it ( http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=14#comments ), everybody has upgraded already :)
[11:51] <mdz> mvo: hmm, I don't see it in the queue output
[11:51] <jsgotangco> i'd try out that red switch later
[11:52] <mvo> mdz: I got:
[11:52] <mvo> Accepted:
[11:52] <mvo>  OK: dist-upgrader_20060601.1853_all.tar.gz
[11:52] <mvo> This upload awaits approval by a distro manager
[11:52] <mdz> oh, right, it'll be in the unapproved queue
[11:52] <mvo> dholbach: is everybody happy too ;) ?
[11:52] <mdz> EEK
[11:52] <mdz>     assert self.sources or self.builds
[11:52] <mdz> AssertionError
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[11:53] <jdub> norty big red switch!
[11:53] <mvo> dholbach: woah, that are a lot of comments - are those the most comments so far? or did the "everybody should come to my party" blog generate more?
[11:53] <mvo> mdz: *ick* 
[11:53] <Fujitsu> Hi jdub.
[11:53] <dholbach> mvo: the "come to the party" folks mailed me personally but they're a huge lot as well
[11:54] <ajmitch> dholbach: 90% support requests? :)
[11:54] <jdub> morning!
[11:55] <sivang> morning jdub , how you been doing?
=== sivang wishes happy the day after dapper day
[11:55] <sivang> *everyone
=== Fujitsu wishes sivang the same.
[11:55] <jdub> ok, though suddenly i'm not having much luck with networking in vmware-player
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[11:56] <mvo> jdub: uhhh, what happend?
[11:57] <jdub> i'm set up for bridged, but i'm not getting dhcp love in the installer
[11:57] <Fujitsu> :(
=== jdub wonders if it's a vicious atheros/bridging fascism issue
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[11:57] <infinity> jdub: Is the interface up?  (doesn't need to have an IP)
[11:58] <Aegir_> Is the interface you're bridging it with up? I had a lot of problems with that on my roaming laptop.
[11:58] <infinity> jdub: The vmnet bridge doesn't like binding to downed interfaces.
[11:58] <Aegir_> Bah, you beat me to it, infinity, Damn TV...
[11:58] <jdub> yeah
[11:58] <mdz> mvo: did you get an email from it?
[11:58] <jdub> ath0 == default route
[11:58] <mdz> I think it blew up before processing it
=== mvo checks mail
[11:58] <mdz> mvo: it's dying because it's trying to print the source package name
=== jdub quickly tries eth0
[11:58] <mvo> mdz: no mail :/
[11:59] <infinity> mdz: I've summoned Kinnison from our other conversation. :)
[12:00] <Kinnison> mdz: Can you /msg me the queue cmdline you used?
[12:00] <mdz> Kinnison: queue accept 40661
[12:00] <mdz> mvo: do you normally upload this differently?
[12:00] <Kinnison> ooh shiny
[12:01] <Kinnison> that's a good bug
[12:01] <infinity> mdz: Normally, the queue tool would never have to touch it, so it would have been fine until now.
[12:01] <mvo> mdz: I don't think so
[12:02] <mdz> Kinnison: queue fetch fails in similar fashion
[12:02] <jdub> bah
[12:02] <Kinnison> mdz: Yes, because there's no source package or build for it to work out what's going on
[12:03] <jdub> bridged works with eth0
[12:03] <Kinnison> mdz: It's a bad assumption in the queue tool
[12:03] <infinity> jdub: Oh, were you bridging the wireless?
[12:03] <mdz> Kinnison: that's how it looked to me as well
[12:03] <infinity> jdub: That doesn't work so well, IME.
=== Kinnison is looking at it now
[12:03] <jdub> infinity: yeah, most don't do promisc (or very well)
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[12:05] <jdub> bum, i was asked to confirm disk changes and enter a root password :|
[12:05] <jdub> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/random/ks.cfg
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[12:19] <Kinnison> mdz: Right, I think I can come up with a fix, I'm just preparing a tree to try it in
[12:19] <mdz> Kinnison: cool
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=== Pig|2old is away: I'm busy
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[12:30] <dholbach> Pig|2old: please turn off that script
[12:31] <Hobbsee> hehe.  i was counting the seconds till someone said that...
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[12:42] <Kinnison> mdz: Fix written, running test-suite now
=== mvo hugs Kinnison
=== Fujitsu hugs the channel.
=== Kinnison snuggles mvo
=== Kinnison kicks emacs and it saves this time
=== Kinnison re-runs the test suite
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[12:47] <Kamion> kermitX_: server menu item> yes, it should, there's been a bug filed about that for a while; I imagine I'll rename that for edgy
[12:48] <Kinnison> mdz: tests look good, generating diff for review
[12:48] <infinity> Kamion: The F3 text should be ammended to say something like "If you're currently trapped in the evil known as gfxboot, hit 'Esc' to exit before running these special boot options"
[12:48] <Kinnison> mdz: This changes the messages from queue slightly
[12:48] <infinity> Kamion: Or, make gfxboot DTRT with them.  Whichever.
[12:48] <Kinnison> mdz: instead of "Accepting foo" you'll get "Accepting foo/1.0-1 (source)" and similar
[12:49] <mdz> Kinnison: that's fine
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[12:49] <mdz> Kinnison: ready to test with mvo's upload then?
[12:49] <Kinnison> mdz: Once I've had stevea glance over the diff, sure
[12:50] <jdub> the graphical installer is pretty zippy under vmware
[12:50] <Kinnison> jdub: aye, it's so cute isn't it?
[12:51] <infinity> jdub: That's because it does very little screen updating.
[12:51] <infinity> jdub: Ironically, this makes it faster than d-i in vmware.
[12:51] <siretart> I don't know if anyone already noticed, but http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dists/ doesn't make too much sense, no?
=== highvoltage thinks it's just perceived to be faster than the text-mode installer
[12:51] <jdub> awesomeness has no irony!
[12:51] <infinity> jdub: (Though, d-i with "debian-installer/framebuffer=false" speeds up quite a bit)
[12:51] <Kinnison> siretart: ooh thanks
[12:51] <Kinnison> infinity: fancy fixing that hiccough?
[12:51] <Kinnison> infinity: probably an interrupted publishing run?
[12:52] <infinity> highvoltage: No, text-mode in vmware really is painful, because the constrant screen redraws make vmware's VGA emulation a sad panda.
[12:52] <infinity> Kinnison: Err..
[12:52] <Kinnison> infinity: we appear to have grown a dists/ in dists/ :-)
[12:53] <Kamion> infinity: it all needs to be adapted for gfxboot, modern reality, etc.
[12:53] <Kamion> there's an open bug about all that, I think
[12:53] <infinity> Kinnison: Yeah, I see that, but how would an interrupted publisher run have done that?
[12:53] <siretart> looks rather like a botched rsync call..
[12:53] <Kamion> highvoltage: it's actually faster anyway - try with a stopwatch; it's doing less work overall
[12:53] <infinity> siretart: No, the main archive looks like that.
[12:53] <infinity> siretart: No rsync involved.
[12:53] <siretart> hm. I see..
[12:54] <Kamion> yeah, but it looks like somebody rsynced dists into dists on drescher a while back; we noticed it yesterday too
[12:54] <Kamion> (cprov commented on it)
[12:54] <Kinnison> Heh
[12:54] <Kinnison> oops
[12:54] <Kamion> it's a couple of days old
[12:54] <highvoltage> Kamion: wow, that's quite cool :)
[12:54] <Kamion> wow, dapper/unapproved is getting full
[12:54] <Kinnison> Kamion: of -UPDATES stuff?
[12:54] <infinity> Kamion: Why on eartch would anything have ever been rsynced TO drescher?  Eek.
[12:54] <infinity> earth, too.
[12:54] <infinity> Kamion: That kinda frightens me.
[12:55] <Kamion> Kinnison: yeah
[12:55] <Kamion> infinity: I'm guessing it was while we were making Contents work
[12:55] <jdub> hmm! under vmware, the ui is pretty zippy too, despite the installer running (iso on disk, not CD though)
[12:55] <infinity> Oh, that's possible.
[12:55] <infinity> I can just delete it wholesale, if we're sure it's stale content and no one wants to investigate further...
[12:56] <Fujitsu> Hehehe. Better not be wrong...
[12:56] <infinity> Well, s/delete/move/, then compare with the current dists.
[12:56] <infinity> Whatever.
=== infinity decides to do that now.
[12:56] <Kinnison> That pulse will have annoyed the mirrors
[12:56] <infinity> No more so than a new OpenOffice upstream.
[12:56] <Kinnison> I guess :-)
[12:57] <infinity> dists is big, but it's not THAT big.
[12:57] <Kamion> infinity: diff -ru a day or two ago suggests that it was stale
[12:57] <Kamion> 3482788 /home/lp_archive/ubuntu/dists/dists/
[12:57] <infinity> Oh, I guess it is.
[12:57] <infinity> 3.4G    dists/
[12:57] <Fujitsu> Destroy it, then...
[12:57] <Kamion> Fujitsu: obviously
[12:57] <infinity> Kamion: Well, I'm happy to get my rm -rf on.
[12:57] <Kamion> but we generally want to be a tad careful when pissing about with the archive by hand
[12:57] <Fujitsu> I guess so.
[12:58] <Kamion> um, that's odd
[12:58] <Kamion> 3489792 /home/lp_archive/ubuntu/dists/
=== infinity will move it to lp_publish's home directory for now.
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[12:58] <Fujitsu> I was speculating this morning what would happen if somebody accidentally rm -rf'ed the primary mirror...
[12:58] <infinity> Kamion: Oh, you just moved it.
[12:58] <Kamion> full of hardlinks?
[12:58] <infinity> Or deleted it?
[12:58] <Kamion> infinity: no I didn't
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[12:58] <sladen> iwj: did you bribe Mozilla to hold off the Firefox release until the day after Dapper?
[12:58] <infinity> Oh, it's there.  I'm losing track of where I ls.
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[12:59] <Kamion> it *does* seem to be full of hardlinks
[12:59] <jsgotangco> lol
[12:59] <Kamion> did somebody do a cp -al or something?
[12:59] <infinity> Yeah, it's a hardlink tree.
[12:59] <Kamion> but not entirely, as diff -ru shows
[12:59] <Kamion> -Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 18:59:08 UTC
[12:59] <Kamion> +Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:18:22 UTC
[12:59] <Kinnison> mdz: I have r=stevea on the patch, preparing drescher now
[12:59] <infinity> Do we break links when we rsync from drescher to the push mirrors?
[12:59] <Kamion> stuff like that in Release files
[12:59] <Kamion> dunno
[01:00] <infinity> Cause if not, then the mirrors that also don't break links wouldn't have even noticed the pulse. :)
[01:00] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, you seem to be having issues tonight.
[01:00] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: tonight?  more so last night.  ndiswrapper and knm seem to lose my connection every once in a while...
[01:01] <infinity> Kamion: It's in ~lp_publish/dists.wtf now.
[01:03] <infinity> And it's pretty clearly a hardlink tree, except for Release/Release.gpg and {dapper,breezy}-updates/.*
[01:03] <infinity> Whack.
[01:03] <iwj> sladen: Fun, eh ?
[01:04] <Fujitsu> Any idea who put it there?
[01:04] <Kamion> infinity: I'm guessing that the stuff that generates Release/Release.gpg breaks hardlinks in the process
[01:06] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, and breezy-updates would break the hardlinks when regenerated, so that explains that.
[01:06] <infinity> Kamion: I'll still leave it in lp_publish's ~ for a while, in case someone feels the urger to trace back why it happened (if it turns out to be a bug rather than someone's poor shell usage)
[01:07] <infinity> I assume it's the latter, though.
[01:08] <infinity> s/urger/urge/
[01:08] <infinity> (And I typed that as s/urger/urger/ before I noticed... I wonder why that one's on finger autopilot..)
[01:08] <Kamion> infinity: nod
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[01:10] <infinity> Oh, feh, I moved that in the middle of a publisher run, didn't I?
[01:11] <infinity> So it'll COME RIGHT BACK IN 15 MINUTES.
[01:11] <infinity> Woo.
=== bmonty is now known as bmonty_away
[01:24] <Kinnison> infinity: you could have removed it from dists.new :-)
[01:24] <sivang> man thi is so cool
[01:24] <sivang> I am using ubuntu and installing it at the same time :-D
[01:24] <simira> tihi
[01:25] <sivang> Kamion: where does ubuiguity has a vt for debug, or keeps log while installation is done form the desktop-cd ?
=== sivang also wonders why ubuiguity seems to be removing lots of unrelated languages packs after he had chosen hebrew as kbd layout and english is default lang.
[01:26] <sivang> (in the phase of the package clean up)
[01:26] <Fujitsu> Ubiquity, you mean?
[01:26] <mdke> jdub: any idea why my blog is spamming planet? the dates and times in the xml feed look fine to me
[01:27] <jdub> mdke: what kind of changes have you made to it recently?
[01:28] <mdke> jdub: I moved it to another server, just updated the dns now
[01:28] <jdub> mdke: were redirects involved?
[01:28] <mdke> jdub: what do you mean?
[01:28] <jdub> at any point, were http redirects involved?
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[01:29] <mdke> jdub: possibly, i don't know I'm afraid
=== jdub deletes the cache
[01:31] <infinity> sivang: ubuquity installed the read-only livefs, then removes the differences between ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-live (more or less).  That's the langpack removals you're seeing.
[01:31] <mdke> jdub: the other thing I did was to give all the posts a #postdate metatag to avoid problems caused by the mtime changing when I moved the files to the new server
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[01:33] <jdub> tjat
[01:33] <jdub> ah, now you tell me :)
[01:33] <Kamion> sivang: /var/log/installer/syslog
[01:33] <mdke> jdub: also, I moved to --static
[01:33] <jdub> mdke: better to just move the files in a more appropriate way ;)
[01:34] <mdke> jdub: well, i wanted the #postdate thing anyway so that I can edit the posts without the date of them changing
[01:35] <mdke> but afaics, the feed seems to have the correct dates in it
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[01:38] <sladen> mvo: there seems to be a case where ~breezy2 in breezy isn't presenting the option to upgrade to dapper
[01:39] <mvo> sladen: can you elaborate please?
[01:39] <sladen> mvo: I've been debugging a case with somebody since yesterday.
[01:39] <sladen> mvo: apparently it was also mentioned here:  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=187187&cid=15445849
[01:40] <sladen> mvo: how is it checking for the new release?
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[01:40] <zul> heylo
[01:40] <mvo> sladen: it downloads the meta-release file from http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-development
[01:41] <sladen> mvo: does it save that anywhere on disk after downloading it?
[01:41] <mvo> sladen: but it is only active when you run it with "update-manager -d" until I pushs the red button (and that is waiting for a final update)
[01:41] <mvo> sladen: yes, /var/lib/update-manager/meta-release
[01:41] <sladen> mvo: so that I can get them to check if it actually did
[01:41] <mvo> sladen: is he runing with "-d"
[01:41] <mvo> ?
[01:42] <sladen> mvo: I've asked hn to but... communication is patchy
[01:42] <sladen> mvo: and hn claims to have
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[01:43] <mvo> sladen: hm, I would be interessted if he has the file
[01:43] <sladen> mvo: AFAICT, the '-d' isn't mentioned in the releases notes that do mention the "seemless upgrade"
[01:43] <mdke> jdub: so, is this a problem my end? do you want to remove my blog for the time being?
[01:44] <sladen> mvo: is it waiting to spread-out the mirror traffic, or to check that dapper is in a sensible sate
[01:44] <mvo> sladen: we had a last minute fix to get into and it got all hold up by everyone busy with the release. we will activate it today most likely
[01:44] <mvo> sladen: but we could claim mirror traffic speading as well :P
[01:45] <mvo> as a reason :)
[01:45] <sladen> mvo: I like it ;-)
[01:45] <mvo> its a bit unfortunate that the bug (upgrade probelm for people with nvidia-glx and nvidia-settings) was not discovered earlier :/
[01:45] <jdub> mdke: i killed the cache, should be fine later
[01:45] <mdz> Kinnison: ready to roll?
[01:45] <Kinnison> mdz: We have a problem
[01:46] <Kinnison> mdz: I can't apply this patch because drescher is behind the times
[01:46] <Kinnison> mdz: my patch fails in various hunks
[01:46] <mdke> jdub: ok, i'll check later. Thanks
=== Kinnison wants to talk with cprov before committing to blatting the codeline
[01:46] <infinity> mvo: So, how did you end up working around it?  Just checking for the package combinations in question, and explicitely marking -settings and -xconfig for removal and -glx for upgrade?
[01:46] <mdz> Kinnison: it might be more prudent to adapt the patch for that codeline as a temporary fix
[01:47] <Kinnison> mdz: it's a nontrivial patch which touches zcml
[01:47] <Kinnison> mdz: I can just comment the offending lines out of a codeline on drescher for now if you want
[01:47] <Kinnison> mdz: that'll work, just remove some output from the queue tool
[01:48] <mdz> Kinnison: i had a look over the patch, didn't look too scary
[01:48] <mdz> Kinnison: but sure, can we do that temporarily?
[01:48] <Kinnison> mdz: I'll do a comment patch as a temporary fix
[01:49] <mdz> Kinnison: ok
[01:49] <infinity> Kinnison: You could install your copies for the 2 minutes required to the this upload in, then revert, and commit your changes to RF...
[01:49] <infinity> s/the this/get this/
[01:49] <mdz> infinity: that's what we're discussing, I think
[01:50] <Kinnison> I wasn't
=== Kinnison was going to just comment out the offending lines in a copy on drescher so that we can do this accept
[01:50] <Fujitsu> Drescher == primary mirror-source?
[01:50] <infinity> Kinnison: The benefit of my suggestion is that it gets real-world testing before you commit to RF and we get "surprised" in the next rollout. :)
[01:51] <infinity> Fujitsu: Yes.
[01:51] <Kinnison> infinity: true
[01:51] <Fujitsu> infinity, aha.
=== Kinnison will rsync a merged tree to drescher, it'll be faster
[01:53] <mdz> Kinnison: that's what I meant
=== Kinnison is underway :-)
[01:53] <mdz> er,  I meant just commenting temporarily
[01:54] <mdz> I don't much like the idea of swapping in a whole new code tree on drescher at the moment
[01:54] <Kinnison> urgh, Right, I'll hand-comment it and we can accept it. remind me of the queue item nr?
[01:54] <mdz> Kinnison: 40661
[01:54] <mdke> jdub: yay, fixed. Thanks a lot
[01:55] <Kinnison> mdz: Okay I can accept it now, shall I?
[01:55] <Kinnison> mdz: It's in a side-tree not what is current/
[01:55] <mdz> Kinnison: yes
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=== Fujitsu finds Hobbsee.
=== HiddenHobbsee does not exist!
[01:56] <mdz> Kinnison: that will go in the next publisher run, yes?
[01:57] <Kinnison> yep
[01:57] <Kinnison> done
=== infinity wonders idly why we have -proposed pockets, since we don't seem to use them.
[01:58] <fabbione> infinity: sab idea
[01:58] <Kinnison> Because we were told to put them in
[02:00] <Fujitsu> heno, are you around?
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[02:00] <Kinnison> mdz: it's sat in accepted waiting for the publisher in 3 minutes
[02:00] <mdz> Kinnison: excellent
[02:00] <mdz> mvo: ready with the Big Red Switch?
[02:00] <heno> Fujitsu: yes, Hi
[02:01] <Fujitsu> heno, do you know anything about mekong? It's down, and Mario Meyer isn't around.
[02:01] <mvo> mdz: yes, ready
[02:01] <Fujitsu> This inconveniences a few LoCo teams...
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[02:01] <Fujitsu> Hi, G0SUB_.
[02:01] <heno> Fujitsu: yes, I'm emailing with the hosting people
[02:01] <G0SUB_> Fujitsu: hello
[02:02] <Fujitsu> heno, thanks. Any idea what's up?
=== mvo needs to switch network soon
[02:02] <heno> They have gotten it to boot, but need to complete the dapper upgrade on-site for it to come back
[02:02] <Fujitsu> heno, so I was right... It was related to the Dapper upgrade?
[02:02] <heno> Fujitsu: I've sent them some login details
[02:03] <Fujitsu> Was it a planned upgrade?
[02:03] <heno> Fujitsu: yes, Nafallo had the same problem last week :)
[02:03] <G0SUB_> heno: but Mario & me had decided about upgrading to dapper after a few weeks
[02:03] <pitti> Hi G0SUB_ 
[02:03] <G0SUB_> Mekong I mean
[02:03] <G0SUB_> pitti: hello!
=== mvo switches network, bbiab
[02:03] <heno> G0SUB_: I wasn't informed of the upgrade until after it ws attempted and broke 
[02:04] <G0SUB_> pitti: I am sorry, I was down with high fever in the last couple of days ... the monsoon has b0rked my system
[02:04] <Fujitsu> Terrific.
[02:04] <G0SUB_> heno: who attempted the upgrade?
[02:04] <Fujitsu> It would have been nice if they'd told us.
[02:04] <Fujitsu> Would Mario Meyer have told them to do it?
[02:04] <pitti> G0SUB_: ouch; I hope you'll get better soon
[02:04] <heno> G0SUB_: Maario I think
[02:04] <G0SUB_> pitti: yes, I am taking antibiotics, will be fine soon
[02:05] <G0SUB_> heno: that's strange, he himself told me that we'd wait for it to settle down before upgrading
[02:05] <Fujitsu> Hmm... I think we should probably be notified before it's upgraded to Edgy...
[02:05] <heno> G0SUB_: that would be more sensible too :)
[02:06] <Fujitsu> How b0rked is it?
[02:06] <heno> Fujitsu: and you should organise some backup system ...
[02:06] <G0SUB_> heno: very strange
[02:06] <Fujitsu> heno, probably.
[02:06] <heno> Fujitsu: I expect it will be up again today
[02:06] <Fujitsu> heno, today in which timezone?
[02:06] <heno> We're just waiting for the US to wake up I think
[02:07] <Fujitsu> Goodo.
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[02:07] <Fujitsu> Somebody'd better file a bug on the breaking :P
[02:07] <G0SUB_> Fujitsu: lol
=== heno -> lunch
[02:07] <Fujitsu> Bye, heno.
=== Fujitsu -> shower.
[02:09] <sivang> Kamion: thanks
[02:09] <sivang> infinity: I see, cool
[02:10] <Kamion> infinity: with what looks like an initramfs-tools bug (bug 35819), is it useful to ask the reporter to attach their initramfs?
[02:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35819 in debian-installer "ubuntu-server dapper 20 Mar 2006: grub-install failed" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35819
=== sivang is now using his new shiny dapper
=== Fujitsu polishes sivang's Dapper.
[02:13] <sivang> hmm, could it be that the default repo mirror is now in austrelia ?
=== sivang notices his /etc/apt/sources.list was default configured with thise
[02:13] <sivang> *those
[02:14] <Fujitsu> sivang, you are Australian?
[02:14] <ajmitch> heh
[02:14] <sivang> Fujitsu: nope, I'm from Israel.
[02:15] <Fujitsu> Hmm.
[02:15] <Fujitsu> Somebody from Austria noted that the mirrors defaulted to Australia.
[02:15] <Fujitsu> I wonder if that's a bug to be looked into...
[02:15] <ogra> i had a similar prob with someone in #edubuntu yesterday
[02:15] <Fujitsu> Hmm.
[02:15] <Fujitsu> Anybody want to check>
[02:15] <Fujitsu> *?\
[02:16] <Fujitsu> **?
[02:16] <sivang> is there a bug report about that already? infinity , Kamion ?
[02:16] <ogra> its caused by the fact that the first en locale you get is simply en_AU
[02:16] <Fujitsu> Yay! We win!
[02:16] <_ion> I think somebody said that choosing the English language during the installation selects the en_AU locale and the au mirror.
[02:16] <Fujitsu> We're #1!
[02:16] <ogra> so if you select english and dont pay attention you get the en_AU locale
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[02:17] <ogra> seems to only happen in mixed environemnts where en is used together with some other locale
[02:17] <_ion> That might be because from all the en_* locales, en_AU is alphabetically the first.
[02:17] <ogra> thats what i said above :)
=== Fujitsu heads off to bed.
[02:18] <sivang> interesting issue
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=== _ion should read everything three times when he's this tired. :-)
=== sivang wonders if at least he gets a good round drip to the .au mirros :p
[02:18] <ogra> sivang, unlikely :)
[02:19] <sivang> ogra: heh
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[02:19] <infinity> Kamion: Which part of that looks like an initramfs bug?
[02:19] <infinity> Kamion: The "no /dev/i2o" thing?
[02:19] <infinity> Kamion: Cause that's a module load order thing. :/
[02:20] <infinity> Kamion: d-i and udev disagreeing about which module owns the card, one module creates devices in /dev/i2o, the other as /dev/sd*
=== sivang goes to reconfigure his locales
[02:22] <Kamion> sivang: yes, there is already a bug report about that
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[02:22] <Kamion> _ion: it's only if you select a country that doesn't have an en_* locale of its own
[02:22] <_ion> kamion: Ok.
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[02:26] <mdz> mvo: lrwxrwxrwx  1 lp_publish lp_publish   13 Jun  2 13:04 current -> 20060601.1853
[02:26] <mvo> mdz: yes, I noticed  - I'll push the red button now :)
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[02:26] <mdz> mvo: well, let's test first, shall we? :-)
[02:27] <mvo> mdz: I'm confident ;) but I agree
=== mvo goes to do testing
[02:28] <mdz> mvo: it still seems to say 'dapper'
[02:28] <mdz> mvo: that will not be fixed until we throw the switch?
[02:28] <mvo> mdz: do you have update-manager...~breezy2  installed? the latest from "-updates"? it shows "6.06 LTS" for me
[02:29] <mdz> mvo: no, I didn't
[02:29] <mdz> but I was upgrading it before trying the test
[02:29] <mvo> mdz: thanks
[02:29] <mdz> confirmed, 6.06 LTS now
[02:29] <mvo> :)
[02:30] <mdz> mvo: the fere space checking code is buggy :-(
[02:30] <mdz> s/fere/free/
[02:30] <mvo> mdz: EEEEHHH how so?
[02:30] <mdz> mvo: Not enough free disk space: ....Pleaes free at  least 91.8M of disk space on /usr
[02:30] <mdz> mvo: this is a 3G root with 926M free
[02:30] <mdz> surely that is enough?
[02:30] <infinity> mvo: How do you check free space?
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[02:31] <mvo> mdz: it take 500mb to download and an additonal 400mb on a typical system
[02:31] <mdz> mvo: freed up some space and it does indeed continue
[02:31] <mvo> mdz: if you have "/" and "/var" on the same partition
[02:31] <mdz> mvo: sorry, I guess it was right :-)
[02:31] <mvo> infinity: it gets the data from apt (additonal required space and required download)
[02:32] <infinity> Ahh.
[02:32] <mvo> mdz: you almost gave me a heart-attack ;)
[02:32] <mvo> infinity: it tries its best, but it is hopeless when /usr, /boot, /, /var are all on different paritions
=== infinity decides that 10:30pm on a Friday is as good enough a time as any to declare the weekend beginning, and leaves his computer.
[02:33] <mdz> infinity: good night
[02:34] <infinity> 'Night.. *tips hat*
[02:34] <mvo> infinity: bye!
[02:34] <sivang> night infinity 
[02:35] <ajmitch> night infinity :)
[02:35] <pitti> infinity: bye
[02:35] <Kamion> crap, kickstart is broken in dapper, will need an installer update at some point
[02:35] <sladen> I don't remember seeing that on the test-list
[02:36] <Kamion> it wasn't
[02:36] <pitti> Kamion: before CDs are started to be pressed, or later? :)
[02:36] <infinity> Kamion: Good thing we're doing an installer update for sparc anyway.
[02:36] <Kamion> pitti: netboot is the primary use case for kickstart anyway
[02:36] <pitti> ah, *phew* :)
[02:36] <infinity> (That was a bot, not me)
[02:36] <zul> pitti: let me know when i can upload btw
[02:36] <pitti> zul: yes, I will
[02:36] <infinity> Kamion: Sneak it into the sparc update, and we're golden.
[02:36] <Kamion> I plan to
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[02:55] <mdke> elmo: Znarl: there are two emails from "mdke@ubuntu.com" in the filter for ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-devel, but I didn't send them. Do I need to take some kind of action about that?
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[03:03] <jadaz87> hello all
[03:03] <jadaz87> :-)
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[03:07] <mdz> mdke: you could discard them
[03:08] <pygi> mdke, you have spies :)
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[03:10] <mdke> mdz: sure, I'll do that, but I was slightly concerned
[03:10] <mdke> nothing to worry about you think?
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[03:49] <smoosh> hi, where i can find a ubuntu gpg public key?
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[03:52] <pitti> smoosh: this question is underspecified
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[03:55] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:57] <smoosh> pitti: i want chech the gpg signature of MD5SUM.gpg for ubuntu oso, but i don't have i ubuntu gpg public key? 
[03:57] <smoosh> pitti: where i can find it?
[03:58] <pitti> oh, hm, good question
[03:58] <infinity> smoosh: If you have a running ubuntu system, try ubuntu-keyring.
[03:58] <infinity> At least, I think the cdimage key is in the ubuntu keyring...
[03:58] <infinity> Kamion: ^^^
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[04:01] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~/foo$ gpg --keyring /usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg --verify MD5SUMS.gpg MD5SUMS
[04:01] <infinity> gpg: Signature made Wed 31 May 2006 01:18:22 PM EST using DSA key ID FBB75451
[04:01] <infinity> gpg: Good signature from "Ubuntu CD Image Automatic Signing Key <cdimage@ubuntu.com>"
[04:01] <infinity> That appears to work fine, yes.
[04:01] <infinity> Kamion: un-ping.
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[04:04] <Kamion> yeah, or just fetch FBB75451 from the keyservers if you have a trust path to it (it's signed by me, and I'm in the strongly-connected set)
[04:05] <Kamion> who is Manfred Lichtenstern and why has he signed the cdimage key?
[04:05] <jdub> haha
[04:06] <smoosh> pitti: thanks
[04:06] <smoosh> infinity: thank you! it works!!
[04:07] <sfllaw> Kamion: Maybe he wants the world to know he trusts us?
[04:07] <sfllaw> ;)
[04:07] <Kinnison> No, he wants the world to know to never trust his signatures
[04:08] <Kinnison> because he's asserting that he's met the ubuntu CD image autosigner and has verified that that "person" owns that key
[04:08] <mdke> Znarl: around?
[04:09] <sfllaw> Kinnison: You mean that we don't have a small indentured servant boy personally verify and sign all our CD images by hand?
[04:09] <sfllaw> What kind of distribution is this?
[04:10] <Kinnison> Well, I wouldn't call kamion a servant boy, he might kick my arse
[04:11] <Kamion> I don't sign them by hand ;-)
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[04:12] <bddebian> heh
[04:13] <Kinnison> Kamion: you don't? You mean you cheat and use hackspit a program to do it for you?
=== Kinnison hands kamion a small magnet on a spike
[04:13] <Kinnison> do it yerself, lazy git
[04:14] <Kamion> my RSA-by-hand skills aren't what they used to be
[04:14] <sfllaw> You can't trust _programs_.  They're _machines_.
[04:14] <Keybuk> Kinnison: or perhaps he's certified that he's done a security review of the process used to build CD images and is happy that the signature is accurate
[04:14] <Keybuk> Kinnison: or, perhaps he's just signed it to indicate that he's confirmed that a CD with that signature did indeed come from Ubuntu
[04:14] <Kinnison> Keybuk: that'd imply he'd broken into our DC to do the check
[04:14] <Keybuk> Kinnison: "I have met and verified the identify of" is only something _you_ infer from a signature
[04:14] <Kinnison> in which case he shouldn't have signed it because he could break in
[04:14] <Keybuk> you can infer anything from a signature
[04:14] <dieman> or perhaps he has no clue?
[04:14] <Keybuk> it's an arbitrary device
=== Kinnison infers that all signatures indicate sex between two people except for his own sigs
[04:15] <Kinnison> now tbm has got some
[04:15] <Kinnison> :-)
[04:15] <Keybuk> in particular, gpg simply infers that a signature on a key indicates that you trust that key
=== Kinnison tickles keybuk
[04:15] <Keybuk> he's probably signed it to indicate to gpg that he trusts the key and doesn't want it bitching
[04:15] <Keybuk> and used sign rather than lsign
[04:15] <Kinnison> troo
[04:16] <Keybuk> so Manfred Lichtenstern is simply someone who trusts the cdimage key
[04:16] <Kinnison> and then uploaded the key by mistake
[04:16] <Keybuk> that's all you can really infer from that
[04:16] <\sh> but now Mandred Lichtenstern is quite famous
[04:16] <Keybuk> the fact you chose to infer the concept of meeting and checking as the indication of trust is purely your personal preference
[04:16] <Keybuk> ya know, I might just create a key and use it to sign those people I've had sex with :)
[04:17] <sfllaw> We should thank Mandred Lichtenstern in release notes or something.
[04:17] <Keybuk> just for amusement
[04:17] <sfllaw> Maybe an easter egg?
[04:17] <\sh> Kamion: why is ubiquity setting en_AU as default locale when choosing english as language?
[04:17] <Kamion> \sh: known bug when you pick a country that doesn't have its own en_* locale
[04:17] <\sh> Kamion: ah ok
[04:18] <mdke> that is a serious bug if ever I saw one
[04:18] <Kamion> no it's not
=== mdke slides off in the knowledge that yet again, no one knows when he's joking
[04:19] <Kamion> heh
=== bddebian hugs mdke
[04:20] <\sh> well, I just thought this morning, that jdub managed convince the queen to set en_AU as default english language even in good old britain ;)
=== mdke can see that
[04:26] <sladen> Gu'day maate, your majesty.  That's a nice pozzy you got there, mind if I rock up and park me arse down?
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[04:27] <bddebian> pozzy? Hmm
[04:27] <\sh> hehe
[04:27] <imbrandon> lol
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[04:33] <Hobbsee> hehe @ sladen 
=== desrt thinks that en_AU should actually start translating this way
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[04:36] <jadaz87> is there something like launchpad but opensource?
[04:36] <desrt> trac?
[04:36] <desrt> bugzilla, perhaps
[04:36] <jadaz87> oh ok
[04:37] <jadaz87> what is the website for trac?
[04:37] <desrt> google trac
=== desrt gets annoyed when people ask questions that could very obviously be solved very easily with google :p
[04:38] <jadaz87> :-(
=== jadaz87 gets annoyed when people say that, who says i am in tty and cannot go to google?
[04:39] <_ion> Who says one can't use google from tty?
[04:40] <jadaz87> _ion most website are not built for w3m
[04:40] <jadaz87> IE
[04:40] <_ion> True. They are built for HTML.
[04:40] <desrt> if you can't use google then the rest of the web isn't likely to be very useful for you
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[04:45] <desrt> Err http://security.ubuntu.com edgy-security/main Packages 404 Not Found
[04:45] <desrt> shucks.
[04:45] <jdub> heh
=== desrt craves excitement
[04:46] <Keybuk> desrt: that would probably be linked to the "http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages 404 Not Found" error :p
[04:46] <desrt> Keybuk; ya.  i seem to be getting an awful lot of these errors, now that you mention it
[04:47] <jdub> you are not ready for edgy
[04:47] <desrt> are you kidding?
[04:47] <desrt> edgy is not ready for me!
[04:48] <desrt> i think i broke mugshot.  nice.
[04:48] <desrt> i list all people in the gnome group and it stops sending the page half-way through
[04:48] <desrt> in the middle of a <div> <table> <tbody> <tr> <td> <div>
[04:52] <HiddenWolf> tables? ew. :)
[05:01] <mdz> seb128: is there an upstream fix for bug 39482 in 2.14.3 by any chance?
[05:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39482 in nautilus "nautilus tries to move when dragging and dropping from read-only folders, instead of copying" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39482
[05:02] <seb128> mdz: no, but sivang has sent a potential patch for it on the upstream mailing list, I'm waiting on alex (upstream maintainer) to comment on it and will upload to dapper-updates, it's on my "to fix to dapper-updates" list
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[05:07] <mdke> seb128: is it known that when double clicking on an .odt file in nautilus, the resulting window isn't focused? and the "Opening Filename..." window in the panel hangs around for a while after it opens
[05:08] <seb128> mdke: I don't read openoffice bugs so no idea
[05:08] <mdke> seb128: ah, I assumed it was a nautilus/Gnome thing
[05:08] <seb128> nop
[05:08] <mdke> ok
[05:08] <seb128> there is no reason it would work for some app and not other
[05:08] <seb128> if you don't have the issue with gedit by example then it's an openoffice issue
[05:09] <mdke> ah, I get the issue with gedit too
[05:09] <mdke> good point
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[05:09] <mdke> not with evince though
[05:10] <seb128> hum
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[05:10] <seb128> I think I'm not in the mood of discussing bugs today :p
[05:10] <seb128> mdke: how do you start it? what do you have on screen? what get focus?
[05:11] <mdke> seb128: double click in nautilus on the file. Nautilus keeps the focus
[05:11] <seb128> works for me
[05:12] <seb128> what focus mode do you use?
[05:12] <_ion> Wow. 1) mv huge_directory /nfs_mountpoint/foobar, 2) during the transfer, mv some_other_directory huge_directory, 3) after the first mv process is complete, it prints "Cannot delete huge_directory: directory not empty"  oh, it doesn't. Instead it removes huge_directory, including huge_direcotry/some_other_directory (which hasn't been moved to foobar, naturally).
[05:12] <seb128> do you click from the desktop or a window?
[05:12] <seb128> spatial or browser mode? icon or list?
[05:12] <mdke> seb128: window. Looking for focus mode
[05:12] <mdke> seb128: click/smart
[05:13] <seb128> works for me ...
[05:13] <mdz> seb128: thanks
[05:13] <seb128> mdke: is nautilus running with your user?
[05:13] <seb128> mdz: np
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[05:14] <mdke> seb128: as far as I know, yes
[05:14] <pitti> happy happy joy joy - bug 48043
[05:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48043 in firefox "New Release 1.5.0.4 with multiple security fixes" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48043
[05:15] <seb128> mdke: spatial or browser? single or double click? list of icon?
[05:15] <pitti> mdz: so now we're officially screwed with firefox 1.0.x
[05:15] <seb128> s/of/or
[05:15] <mdke> seb128: browser, double, icon
[05:15] <pitti> (not even mentioning mozilla)
[05:15] <mdke> seb128: could it be related to bug #44710 (i don't really understand the bug report)
[05:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44710 in metacity "raise_on_click is disabled in 'click_to_focus' mode" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44710
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[05:16] <seb128> mdke: to be honest I don't understand neither your bug or the one you point ;)
[05:16] <seb128> double clicking on a .txt open gedit
[05:16] <seb128> and if I press a key the char go to the gedit window
[05:16] <seb128> which seems to work fine to me
[05:16] <mdke> not here :/
[05:17] <mvo> mdz: ok, my testing is positive. ok for the "big red button"?
[05:17] <mdke> seb128: I'll file a separate bug, and we can discuss another time via the bug report. Thanks for your help, as always
[05:17] <seb128> mdke: no please
[05:18] <seb128> too much bug, graa
[05:18] <seb128> too many bugs, graaa
[05:18] <mdke> heh
[05:18] <seb128> mdke: comment on the other bug if you think you have the same issue
[05:18] <seb128> or send upstream
[05:18] <sladen> if all these buttons are big and red, it must be getting confusing about which one to press
[05:18] <seb128> mdke: sorry but I just feel it's too much of them atm ;)
[05:19] <mdke> seb128: I have no idea if it is the same issue as that bug.
[05:19] <seb128> to be honest I'll do nothing on your bug since I don't get the issue
[05:19] <mdz> mvo: my test succeeded as well
[05:19] <mdz> mvo: let's do it
[05:19] <mvo> mdz: rock, thanks
[05:19] <seb128> and I've no idea on what could be wrong
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[05:19] <seb128> but right, open a bug if you want
[05:19] <mdke> seb128: oh, that's a shame. I'll try upstream too then
[05:20] <mdz> mvo: we've missed cron.daily for US and Europe, so I expect nothing will start happening until tomorrow
[05:20] <dieman> well, that sucks. this laptop loses its hard drive after suspend
[05:20] <dieman> (to ram)
[05:20] <dieman> even though its sata and supposedly the patches are in the kernel, pout.
[05:21] <mjg59> dieman: What machine?
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[05:21] <mvo> mdz: its updating the meta-release file, the effect is immediate
[05:21] <dieman> mjg59: dell latitude d620
[05:22] <mvo> mdz: its active now *PHEAR*
[05:22] <bddebian> heh
[05:22] <dieman> mjg59: its got an intel 82801GBM/GHM
[05:23] <dieman> mjg59: supposedly it sometimes works under 2.6.16 for some suse user with a website
[05:23] <mjg59> Bleah.
[05:24] <dieman> looks like the same disk controller as the thinkpad x60s
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[05:24] <seb128> mdke: is /apps/metacity/general/raise_on_click activated for you?
[05:24] <mdke> looking
[05:25] <mjg59> dieman: Yeah, that makes less difference than you'd expect
[05:25] <mdz> mvo: yes, but no one will notice until they get an automatic notification
[05:25] <mdz> mvo: please update the instructions on DapperUpgrades
[05:25] <dieman> mjg59: heh
[05:25] <mdke> seb128: yes
[05:25] <mvo> mdz: will do
[05:25] <seb128> mdke: does it happen with an another user? what window manager do you use?
[05:25] <mdke> seb128: metacity, will try another user
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[05:27] <sladen> mvo: does that mean that the http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-development file should have changed to say  "Supported: 1" for dapper?
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[05:27] <sladen> mvo: still says  "Supported: 0" 
[05:27] <mvo> sladen: yes, thanks - but -development is not that important anyway (that is only used when the -d switch is active)
[05:27] <seb128> mdke: works fine on my laptop with a stock install of dapper from some days ago too
[05:28] <seb128> mdke: my best bet is that you or something you played with changed a setting which does that but I've no idea of why one
[05:28] <_ion> I filed a bug report: bug #48066.
[05:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48066 in coreutils "mv(1) may delete more than it should" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48066
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[05:28] <mvo> sladen: updated, thanks again :)
[05:28] <sladen> mvo: oh right.  I'd assumed that meant "-distro-updatable"
[05:29] <sladen> mvo: the Release  Date:  is different  12:00 UTC  vs.  09:00 UTC  (this is so minor...)
[05:30] <mdke> seb128: having deleted ~/.metacity it now works properly. didn't happen with a fresh user. So, probably no bug
[05:30] <seb128> mdke: did you keep the ~/.metacity for debug?
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[05:31] <mdke> seb128: I have it backed up
[05:31] <mvo> sladen: right, I'll update that too (but it is currently unused :)
=== mvo checks the right release time
[05:31] <Kamion> 09:00
[05:31] <mvo> thanks 
[05:32] <Kamion> (officially; we may have been a few minutes off ;-))
[05:32] <seb128> mdke: bah, forget about it, we have too many bugs, realisticly we will not work on that before ages ... feel free to bug upstream if you want, other way let's consider as a local hick on your box
[05:32] <mdke> seb128: fine by me. Sorry about that
[05:32] <seb128> np
[05:33] <seb128> sorry for complaining today, I feel slightly tired and I've read too many bugs recently, I think I'll enjoy doing something else tonight and a good night then ;)
[05:33] <jsgotangco> you deserve it!
=== mvo pushes seb128 away from the computer so that he can relax a bit
[05:35] <mdke> seb128: good idea
=== HiddenWolf thinks seb128 deserves a hug
[05:38] <jsgotangco> yeah
=== bddebian hugs seb128 :-)
[05:38] <jsgotangco> group hug
=== jsgotangco hugs seb128 
=== mvo hugs seb128
=== seb128 hugs everybody
=== mvo hugs seb128 again (just to be sure)
[05:38] <seb128> ;)
=== Hobbsee hugs everyone as well
=== _ion hugs self
[05:38] <bddebian> heh
=== jsgotangco hugs Hobbsee tightly
[05:38] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:38] <jsgotangco> kidding
[05:39] <Hobbsee> hehe
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[05:39] <Hobbsee> dont squish me!  i'm breakable!
[05:39] <mdke> Znarl: reping?
[05:39] <Znarl> mdke : Pong?
[05:40] <mdke> Znarl: just chasing you on the wiki move
[05:40] <Znarl> mdke : About the two emails from mdke@ubuntu.com?  There is nothing you can do about that.  It's not a cause for worry.
[05:41] <mdke> Znarl: cool
[05:41] <Znarl> mdke : fabbione has stolen me, I have no idea when I'll be finished.  I can't do anything until then.
[05:42] <mdke> Znarl: ah, right. If you can't do it by today, lemme know and I'll put the static stuff up on the old server
=== Hobbsee wonders if group hugs occur in places like paris dev meetings :P
[05:43] <Znarl> mdke : Might be best to put the static stuff up.
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[05:43] <mdke> Znarl: al right, I'll start building it
[05:43] <mdke> Znarl: thanks
[05:43] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: do you really want to know the answer to that?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: hmmm...yes...
[05:44] <Hobbsee> i think so...
[05:44] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: you'll just have to come to Paris to find out then
[05:44] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i cant come to paris dammit :P
[05:45] <Hobbsee> i have exams, and i dont have a passport.
[05:45] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: those are the main reasons
[05:45] <zul> why dont you get a passport?
[05:46] <Hobbsee> zul: because if i wait till i turn 18, i can get one for 10 years - and my old one lapsed.
[05:46] <bddebian> They won't let her out of the country.  She's dangerous ;-P
[05:46] <zul> ah..
[05:46] <Hobbsee> besides, is it really a good idea for an under-18 year old to be traipsing around the world with a group of men?
[05:46] <Hobbsee> on second thoughts, dont answer that.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> bddebian: hehe.  you bet.
[05:47] <crimsun> pitti: right, I'll reroll a new debdiff for moodle, thanks!  (Figured it wouldn't be much use to have a security update if the thing didn't install ;-)
[05:48] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: zul:  the main problem is that i have exams, and we have to stay there to do the exams, no exceptions.
[05:49] <Hobbsee> the rest would probably be otherwise solvable, but not that.
[05:49] <mdz> seb128: so about 2.14.3, feel free to go ahead and upload anything which is trivial and safe (translations, stuff we've already merged, trivial bugfixes); if there is anything you consider non-trivial, please run it by me
[05:49] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: whatever, you just hate us
[05:49] <mdz> seb128: automated upgrades from breezy will be starting over the next 24 hours or so
[05:49] <Hobbsee> crud, i'm in -devel - i thought i was in -motu
[05:49] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:49] <mdz> well, automated notifications anyway
[05:49] <seb128> mdz: we did that today
[05:50] <seb128> mdz: I cursed evolution guys though, but I'll not bother you with that today
[05:50] <seb128> s/cursed/curses
[05:50] <mdz> seb128: oh, there's no mail notifications. so they're waiting in unapproved?
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[05:50] <InfraRed1> hello
[05:50] <seb128> mdz: probably, I got mails saying so but I don't know where unapproved is and if everything behind the scene works fine ;)
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[05:51] <desrt> man i love reading the latest sco news
[05:51] <desrt> it's so inspiring
[05:51] <seb128> mdz: evolution guys changed some evolution-data-server soname between GNOME 2.14.1 and 2.14.2 because they apparently broke the ABI some time ago and didn't notice until the Debian maintainers complained ...
[05:52] <jdub> seb128: ha ha!
[05:52] <jdub> btw, federico is going to get ABI checkers into gnome's tinderbox
[05:52] <jdub> that'll be nice
[05:53] <seb128> mdz: that will need to discuss, since the ABI didn't change between 2.14.1 and 2.14.2 we technically don't need to change the soname and we should probably undo that move if we want to update to dapper-updates 
[05:53] <pitti> seb128: erm, there are *30* rdepends on that
[05:53] <seb128> jdub: yeah, that would be nice
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[05:53] <seb128> pitti: since the ABI changed ages ago and not after GNOME 2.14 I would say to undo the soname change simply
[05:53] <pitti> seb128: right
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[05:54] <pitti> seb128: will make us incompatible with the rest of the world, but...
[05:54] <seb128> pitti: what rest of the world? FC5 shipped with GNOME 2.14.0 and have the same soname as dapper then
[05:54] <pitti> oh, right
[05:54] <jdub> seb128: we should punch the evo guys for changing the soname
[05:54] <pitti> seb128: forget about me, it's been a long week
[05:55] <seb128> Suse didn't do anything with GNOME 2.14 yet, nor did mandriva
[05:55] <seb128> jdub: yeah, I've planned to talk to harish when he will be around
=== seb128 wonders if mdz had an attach while reading about the soname change
[05:57] <mdz> seb128: ...
[05:57] <jdub> attack?
[05:57] <jdub> seb128: he was already a little unstable earlier, due to the sun in london
[05:57] <mdke> it's gone now
[05:58] <seb128> jdub: right
=== Kamion tries to figure out the build-dep chain for edgy d-i
[05:59] <seb128> mdz: joke aside, any opinion on that? Anyway, I don't plan to work on that upgrade before my week of VAC, so we have to think about it 
[05:59] <Kamion> I think it'll need libselinux and friends, dpkg, debhelper before even starting
[05:59] <mdz> seb128: I don't think we should change the soname in -updates, no
[06:00] <seb128> mdz: do you think that undoing the soname change is fine or should we rather not update eds?
[06:00] <seb128> mdz: I'll have a look on the bug fixed list and ping you back later on the topic
[06:00] <mdz> seb128: I accepted your last batch of uploads; any more coming soon?
[06:01] <mdz> seb128: if the other changes are safe and worthwhile, we should update it, yes
[06:01] <Kamion> drat, and dpkg isn't just a sync; it was looking good until I got to the linktosameexistingdir stuff
[06:01] <seb128> mdz: ok. Updates? Daniel uploaded a bunches of GNOME updates too I think, you probably noticed them. Other way nothing queued yet, probably monday for next batch
[06:04] <mdz> seb128: yes, I processed everything which was pending
[06:04] <seb128> ok, thank you
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[06:05] <Kamion> iwj: will you be able to merge dpkg early next week? from what I can tell, it looks like it can very nearly be a straight sync, but not quite
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[06:09] <iwj> Kamion: I should be able to.  I haven't looked at it.
[06:09] <Kamion> libselinux/libsepol need to be synced first I think
[06:09] <iwj> Oh FFS
[06:09] <iwj> Damn the NSA for adding more shonky crap to the world.
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[06:10] <Kamion> it's a trivial sync though, so won't hold stuff up
[06:12] <Kamion> then debhelper will need to be merged; I guess I'll look at that
[06:12] <Kamion> then with any luck it's just a matter of walking through d-i in build-dep order ...
[06:16] <LaserJock> iwj: got a sec?
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[06:22] <iwj> LaserJock: sure.
[06:23] <LaserJock> iwj: I wanted to ask about the Ubuntu Developer's Reference. I know you were really busy with Dapper but did you get a chance to work on it?
[06:24] <LaserJock> iwj: I saw from the developer reports that it was "started" but am unsure of what that meant
[06:24] <iwj> Not since we last spoke.
[06:24] <iwj> It means I got about 10% of the way through hacking the DDR with a chainsaw.
[06:24] <LaserJock> iwj: is it just you working on it? do you need/want help?
[06:25] <iwj> need/want help> are you offering ? :-)
[06:25] <iwj> Because if you are then yes please!
[06:25] <mdke> does it have a different scope from the packaging guide?
[06:25] <LaserJock> yes, I'm offering to do what I can
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[06:25] <LaserJock> mdke: yes
[06:25] <mdke> ah
[06:25] <LaserJock> mdke: I think ;_0
[06:25] <LaserJock> :-) I meant
[06:25] <iwj> mdke: Yes, I think so.  It covers all of the stuff that's not how to make your package.
[06:25] <mdke> if it's not that different, maybe you could merge the projects
[06:25] <mdke> ah
[06:26] <LaserJock> I think they are complimentary
[06:26] <iwj> So the DDR covers stuff like how to become a DD, NMU procedure, etc. etc.
[06:26] <mdke> oh right
[06:26] <iwj> Lots of it wants ripping out and replacing in the UDR.
[06:26] <dieman> holy crap, the linuxant people already have dapper packages up
[06:26] <mdke> what format are you doing it in?
[06:27] <iwj> LaserJock: Would you like me to give you what I have and you can pick it up ?
[06:27] <iwj> I'd be happy to explain my thinking and what I was doing about it, etc.
[06:27] <iwj> Maybe a phone call would be a good idea, after you've had a chance to look at it.
[06:27] <LaserJock> iwj: if you don't think you have time for it
[06:27] <LaserJock> iwj: I would at least like to help pout
[06:27] <iwj> mdke: It's going to be a modified-for-Ubuntu developer-reference package.
[06:28] <iwj> LaserJock: I think it would be good for you to hold the master since I don't seem to be doing much with it and you might actually upload it.
[06:28] <LaserJock> iwj: k, do you have a url for it? or can you send me what you have?
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[06:30] <iwj> LaserJock: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/Udr.tar.gz.
=== jsgotangco is familiar with the DDR
[06:31] <iwj> Contains: my working tree; the ddr I based it on.  dpkg-source -x the ddr inside and you'll get a diff that might be informative.
[06:31] <iwj> That is, dpkg-source -x the ddr 3.3.6 inside it and then diff it against the working tree.
[06:31] <iwj> You'll see I didn't chop out the sections to be hatcheted; I've been commenting them out.
[06:32] <LaserJock> k
[06:32] <iwj> That way when the DDR changes in those parts we won't get a rejected diff when we merge.
[06:32] <LaserJock> ah
[06:33] <LaserJock> ok, well I'll try my best but I imagine I'll need to pick your brain every once in a while
[06:33] <LaserJock> I've gotten fairly good feedback about the Ubuntu Packaging Guide so far so I think having the UDR done too would be a real plus for Ubuntu
[06:34] <iwj> Absolutely.
[06:34] <iwj> It's a real shame I was too swallowed up by firefox to really do much about it.
[06:34] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:34] <jsgotangco> okay so the UPG had lots of accolades and the UDR is the natural path, bring it on yo!
[06:35] <pitti> iwj: can we get ffox 1.5.0.4 into dapper-security next week?
[06:35] <pitti> iwj: I can prepare a changelog entry again
[06:38] <iwj> pitti: Yes, and yes please.
[06:39] <iwj> What are we going to do about breezy ?
[06:39] <mdke> heh
[06:39] <fabbione> and hoary...
[06:39] <imbrandon_zZz> and sid .... err yea
[06:39] <jdub> pitti: could you please get that compreg fix in with it? :) seb will love you forever.
[06:39] <iwj> LaserJock: Well, do let me know however I can help.
[06:40] <LaserJock> iwj: will do, thanks.
[06:40] <iwj> jdub: What compreg fix ?
[06:40] <jdub> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/30791
[06:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30791 in firefox "firefox 1.4.99 upgrade still have compreg.dat, creates issue" [Normal,Needs info]  
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[06:41] <jdub> new poll on fridge
[06:42] <sladen> mjg59: have you hand-hacked a mactel-specific i386 image yet?
[06:42] <mjg59> Nope
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[06:43] <Tonio_> hello
[06:43] <sladen> mjg59: do you have plans to?  I don't have access to a Mac OSX box
[06:43] <iwj> jdub: That bug was last touched in January and there seems to be no information about what the fix might be ?
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[06:43] <mjg59> Yeah, but probably with Colin and not in the next few days
[06:43] <jdub> iwj: removing comprej.dat on upgrade
[06:44] <iwj> jdub: The problem isn't that it's not removed.  It is.  The problem is that something recreates it.
[06:44] <jdub> hrm
[06:44] <iwj> We don't know what.
[06:44] <jdub> suck!
[06:44] <iwj> If we knew what then we could hit it over the head.
[06:44] <iwj> You'll see my latest contribution (2006-01-06) provides a thing you can do to trip up the responsible program.
[06:45] <iwj> But no-one seemed to want to do this.  Furthermore, I haven't seen any reports of this particular problem recently.
[06:45] <iwj> That could be because (a) it was a bug in something in earlier dapper or (b) it's a latent bug in something in breezy that happens during the breezy->dapper upgrade.
[06:46] <seb128> iwj: the issue is not than nobody wants to do it, it's rather than nobody manages to trigger it to debug it
[06:46] <iwj> seb128: Well, yes, that too.
[06:46] <iwj> It seems quite a rare problem.  Either the package that's causing it is unusual, or there's something odd about the upgrade process of the people that have the problem.
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[06:49] <dieman> arugh
[06:49] <dieman> looks like hsfmodem from linuxant will not work with the hda driver in dapper
[06:50] <dieman> they didn't notice some of the alsa 1.0.11 stuff pulled in earlier this month
[06:50] <dieman> i think
[06:50] <mvo> iwj: I suspect that it was created by gtkmozembed when the gnome-app-install tool was run as root (that was the default in breezy)
[06:50] <mvo> iwj: but that is just a theory
[06:52] <mjg59> Closed source driver in "not working" anti-shocker
[06:52] <bddebian> heh
[06:52] <zyga> hey guys
[06:52] <pitti> jdub: compreg fix? into what? ffox?
[06:52] <zyga> I managed to crash ubiquity 
[06:52] <dieman> mjg59: yeah
[06:53] <dieman> mjg59: it just seems to be the hda modem driver
[06:53] <dieman> mjg59: its their problem, but in case you start getting gobs of bugs
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[06:53] <dieman> they claim they wont fix it until 1.0.11 is rolled into 2.6
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[06:55] <mjg59> Sucks to be them
[06:55] <dieman> yeah
[06:55] <dieman> definately sucks for them
[06:55] <iwj> mvo: So do we think packages are running gnome-app-install in their *rm scripts ?
[06:55] <dieman> sucks for me because a professor wants his modem working, now.
[06:55] <dieman> ;)
[06:55] <dieman> i'll tell them to buy a pcmcia card
[06:56] <jdub> pitti: see discussion with iwj :(
[06:56] <pitti> jdub: ok, I let you two sort that out
[06:57] <mvo> iwj: err, no. 
=== iwj finds (at least one) cause of dependtry assertion in dpkg.
[06:57] <iwj> If you make a package depend on itself, dpkg won't configure it and will crash instead.
[06:58] <dieman> its more fun when the package escapes dpkg by having the fs its on end up being unmounted
[06:58] <dieman> thats quite easy to do with autofs :)
[06:58] <iwj> What on earth are the expected semantics of this ??
[06:58] <iwj> Package: blt
[06:58] <iwj> Provides: blt-common
[06:58] <iwj> Conflicts: ... blt-common
[06:59] <iwj> Depends: ... blt-common ....
[06:59] <dieman> nice
[06:59] <iwj> Collect the full set !
[06:59] <imbrandon_zZz> lol
[06:59] <Kamion> zyga: everyone else files bug reports about that ;-)
[06:59] <zyga> Kamion: phone
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[07:04] <lifeless> is there a london release party planned ?
[07:04] <sladen> mvo: where does  update-manager/synaptic  put upgrade-logs 
[07:04] <sladen> mvo: eg. the decisions about what to remove/add
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[07:23] <mvo> sladen: /var/log/dist-upgrade*.log
[07:26] <sladen> mvo: thanks
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=== InfraRed pokes sladen 
[07:30] <sladen> InfraRed: yup
[07:30] <InfraRed> sladen: i forgot to post the card
[07:31] <sladen> InfraRed: okay.  tell me that in a channel that isn't  #ubuntu-devel
[07:31] <InfraRed> will post it tomorrow so they'll have it monday/tuesday latest
[07:31] <InfraRed> ok :)
[07:31] <InfraRed> eof
[07:32] <ogra> pfft, sladen wants only a higher win count in irssi, so he can pretend he typoed "win 247" again to show off :)
[07:32] <sladen> business and pleasure don't mix.  and #ubuntu-devel is pleasure ;-)
[07:33] <ogra> :)
[07:33] <InfraRed> oooh ya
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[07:34] <jdong|coreduo> elmo: you got a moment?
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[07:43] <j^> how can i switch off all screen blanking? i disabled it in gnome-power-manager and disabled the screensaver, still the sreen turns of after 30minutes
[07:43] <InfraRed> bios?
[07:44] <iwj> Yay, fixed it.
[07:44] <sladen> j^: dimming, or blanking?
[07:44] <iwj> Also found and removed the scars of some idiot's attempt to fix it previously.
[07:45] <j^> sladen its a desktop and the projector that is connected gets no signal
[07:45] <sladen> j^: g-p-m -> Running on AC -> Switch display off: Never  and  -> Running on Battery -> Switch display off: Never  (drag both sliders to the right hand side)
[07:46] <j^> sladen did that, did not help
[07:47] <sladen> j^: what's the bug number?  Can you try running   sudo vbetool dpms off   and then waiting 
[07:47] <j^> that switched it off
[07:48] <j^> will stop now to many people watching...
[07:48] <sladen> j^: sudo vbetool dpms on
[07:48] <sladen> j^: oops
[07:49] <iwj> I'm really glad now I kept a copy of dpkg 1.4.0 hanging around.
[07:51] <sladen> j^: can you file a bug and attache your /var/log/Xorg.log
[07:56] <j^> sladen will check this out once the presentation is over trying xset -dmps now
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[08:08] <iwj> Gah, that's _two_ broken fixes for the same bug, and counting.
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[08:11] <janimo> Kamion: with the seeds in the new place you no longer mirror the old xubuntu ones right?
[08:26] <iwj> Come on, BTS, ...
[08:26] <iwj> (The Debian one.)
[08:26] <iwj> I want to put the Debian bug number in my email to Malone.
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[09:47] <glatzor> ping Riddell
[09:47] <Riddell> glatzor: hi
[09:48] <glatzor> Hi Riddell, I've got one little question about KDE: are there currently any string changes in the ubuntu packages of KDE?
[09:49] <Riddell> glatzor: a few, about 5 I think
[09:49] <Riddell> maybe less
[09:49] <Riddell> mostly for sudo support in kdesu
[09:50] <Riddell> and we might have bugs in some .pot file generation for all I know
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[09:51] <glatzor> Riddell: fine. the reputation of (K)Ubuntu in the German KDE translator community isn't the best at the moment :/
[09:52] <Riddell> untranslated strings or rosetta translators changing strings without good reason?
[09:52] <glatzor> Riddell: I think that we collect obsolete messages of previous versions in Rosetta 
[09:53] <glatzor> Riddell: of course both :)
[09:53] <Riddell> the strings in rosetta are from kde 3.5.2
[09:53] <Riddell> or the strings I sent to rosetta are, they could have been changed of course
[09:54] <glatzor> Riddell: I don't know much about Rosetta. But does it merge the strings of later version or does it remove all obsolete strings that don't appear anymore in the later version?
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[09:56] <Riddell> it'll remove ones that aren't used any more and merge new translations in, I'm not sure if the merge process gives status to upstream strings or those from rosetta though
[09:57] <glatzor> Riddell: I think that I have to take a closer look at the future plans for Rosetta. if it also covers universe the situation could get even worse.
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[09:58] <Riddell> glatzor: I think the situation can only improve as rosetta teams learn how to respect and work with upstreams
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[10:00] <Riddell> hi mvo_, I see mornfall is planning on uploading app-install-data to debian
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[10:09] <mvo_> Riddell: interessting - I hope he refreshs it with the debian specific data
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[10:11] <thesaltydog> #ubuntu-it
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[10:22] <neuRo] > from where exactly can I download ubuntu's source-code (please dont say www.ubuntu.com because i've been looking for a while)?
[10:23] <LaserJock> neuRo] : from the source packages
[10:24] <LaserJock> neuRo] : use deb-src lines in /etc/apt/sources.list and apt-get source
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[10:40] <neuRo] > that didn't help.
[10:41] <LaserJock> neuRo] : why not?
[10:41] <neuRo] > because it doesn't make sense to me.
[10:41] <crimsun> this is better addressed in #ubuntu-motu, probably
[10:41] <neuRo] > that's like speaking in chinese to someone who just spoke to you in english and expecting them to understand you.
[10:42] <stratus> neuRo] : http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/
[10:42] <LaserJock> neuRo] : yeah, lets take it to #ubuntu-motu, we can talk you through it there
[10:49] <mgalvin> jdub: so what are the names that did *not* make the cut? :)
[10:50] <Burgwork> mgalvin, did not make the cut?
[10:50] <mgalvin> the "other" names rather
[10:50] <Burgwork> mgalvin, for edgy?
[10:51] <mgalvin> Burgwork: his blog post... what Ubuntu might have been called if sabdlf didn't suggest Ubuntu
[10:51] <Burgwork> ah
[10:51] <ohoel> Coca Cola Linux
[10:51] <LaserJock> "Just Works" Linux?
[10:52] <ohoel> I'd have to find myself another planet ;)
[10:52] <\sh> can someone confirm, that ibm t43's hibernate is not working,too? but suspend to ram is?
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[11:19] <DShepherd> what is thelandscape-client package do? or supposed to do
[11:20] <Riddell> DShepherd: apt-cache show will reveal all
[11:20] <DShepherd> Riddell: i did
[11:20] <Riddell> then you'll know as much as anyone does :)
[11:20] <DShepherd> Riddell: is that something? :-D
[11:21] <Burgwork> DShepherd, it is a big secret that the Canonical people cannot tell us
[11:21] <DShepherd> Burgwork: :=P
[11:22] <DShepherd> Burgwork: ok... just dont go microsoft on us now... we still love ubuntu's sense or transparency
[11:22] <DShepherd> or =  of
[11:22] <jdub> the package description is pretty clear :)
[11:23] <DShepherd> I know what it says.. i want to see what it does :-D
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[12:02] <pygi> crimsun, o joy, so many patches :)
[12:03] <kermitX_> http://www.cetico.org/tech/2006/05/ubuntu-landscape-somewhat-announced.html