[12:07] <Spec> LaserJock: -some- of us have houses with more than 50 rooms, so it's no problem.
[12:07] <LaserJock> whatever :p
[12:07] <Spec> i don't :p
[12:32] <deptrai> hello, I'm making a .deb package, but I don't know how to add a new line to /etc/profile
[12:32] <LaserJock> new line in /etc/profile?
[12:32] <deptrai> export GTK_IM_MODULE="xim" <== I just want to add this
[12:32] <deptrai> to change environnement variable
[12:33] <crimsun> no, don't do that.
[12:33] <deptrai> crimsun: what should I do ?
[12:34] <deptrai> because the package need to change environment
[12:34] <deptrai> variable
[12:34] <deptrai> to run correctly
[12:34] <crimsun> deptrai: add a note in README.Debian telling the users to make that change in their own startup files.
[12:34] <crimsun> /etc/{environment,profile} are sacred
[12:34] <deptrai> crimsun: is there anyway to display a message when user install my package ?
[12:35] <deptrai> just for notify them
[12:35] <crimsun> deptrai: yes
[12:35] <deptrai> crimsun: how ?
[12:36] <crimsun> deptrai: there are a few ways, debconf being one
[12:36] <deptrai> :-/
[12:37] <deptrai> crimsun: thanks for the keyword, I'll look around
[12:37] <crimsun> debconf is more than likely overkill
[12:38] <LaserJock> yes
[12:39] <crimsun> zenity, whiptail, ...
[12:43] <jaldhar> don't use debconf or a manual prompt.  Put it in NEWS.Debian
[12:44] <jaldhar> or actually README.Debian now I've read the rest of the conversation
[12:54] <ajmitch> well, looks like #ubuntu is fairly insane still
[12:54] <LaserJock> yep
[12:55] <ajmitch> someone ranting on debian lists again
[12:55] <Arrogance> ajmitch, the natives making you nervous?  ;)
[12:55] <LaserJock> ajmitch: is there a time when somebody isn't
[12:55] <LaserJock> ajmitch: d-d?
[12:55] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ranting about a 'certain brand new debian-like distribution'
[12:55] <ajmitch> & bugs
[12:56] <LaserJock> mwuahahaha
[12:56] <LaserJock> yeah, because of course Debian has not bugs
[01:06] <ajmitch> sigh
[01:06] <LaserJock> what happened now?
[01:06] <ajmitch> sun people sending out announcements about ubuntu on sparc
[01:06] <ajmitch> but the images aren't final yet
[01:07] <LaserJock> so what is sparc used for, I'm not imagining it as your typical desktop arch
[01:08] <ajmitch> servers
[01:08] <ajmitch> and the kernel for the sunfire T1000 has a problem with the network driver
[01:08] <ajmitch> T1000 is one of the new, shiny niagara-based systems
[01:09] <ajmitch> luckily I've got T2000s to play on, which have a different network driver
[01:10] <lucas> hiya
[01:10] <LaserJock> hi lucas
[01:10] <lucas> i wanna join Python Team
[01:10] <LaserJock> go for it
[01:10] <lucas> where?
[01:10] <ajmitch> it's best to join the MOTUs rather than just the python team
[01:11] <lucas> hum
[01:11] <lucas> yeah
[01:11] <lucas> so
[01:11] <lucas> i wanna join the motu ^^
[01:12] <LaserJock> lucas: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
[01:13] <ajmitch> of course joining the MOTU team just means doing a lot of work for no pay ;)
[01:14] <lucas> of course xD
[01:30] <crimsun> I need about 4 more hours/day
[01:31] <LaserJock> only 4?
[01:31] <LaserJock> I could use 8 I think
[01:37] <ajmitch> crimsun: that time of year?
[01:38] <crimsun> ajmitch: hehe. Well, it seems everything condensed /today/. Dapper release+merging updates+conference call+[...] 
[01:38] <ajmitch> ah yes...
[01:38] <ajmitch> you're working on updates now?
[01:39] <crimsun> yeah, got a whole queue :/
[01:40] <ajmitch> :(
[01:40] <ajmitch> I've got a bunch of stuff I need to update as well
[01:41] <ajmitch> great, sounds like I've still got a chance of my sound problem being fixed if it still exists ;)
[01:41] <ajmitch> I haven't been brave enough to test lately
[01:41] <crimsun> the oss/hda bit?
[01:41] <ajmitch> alsa & doom3
[01:42] <ajmitch> intel8x0 driver
[01:42] <crimsun> oh that's right, you're using alsa for it
[01:42] <crimsun> hmm, not snd_hda_intel?
[01:42] <ajmitch> not on this motherboard
[01:42] <crimsun> k
[01:42] <ajmitch> that's for the laptop
[01:42] <ajmitch> where I had the realtek codec issue until you patched it
[01:44] <crimsun> sorry, too many issues running around :-)
[01:44] <ajmitch> yeah :)
[01:48] <ajmitch> well, to do testing actually
[01:49] <crimsun> :-)
[02:11] <bmonty> ajmitch: did you have a chance to look at my kerberos stuff?
[02:12] <ajmitch> at the python wrapper? no, not really
[02:12] <bmonty> I'm curious to hear what other people think of the way I set it up, so any comments are appreciated
[02:14] <ajmitch> ok :)
[02:14] <crimsun> hah!  "It wasn't covered by the generic HP entry because of a hardware bug (the SSID is reversed)."
[02:15] <crimsun> gotta /love/ manufacturers.
[02:15] <ajmitch> bmonty: might as well package it ;)
[02:15] <ajmitch> crimsun: sounds crazy
[02:16] <bmonty> ajmitch: I don't think it is anywhere close to being ready to package
[02:18] <ajmitch> it's not
[02:18] <ajmitch> but I still have an aversion to installing stuff from source
[02:22] <bmonty> ajmitch: it is as simple as "python setup.py install --home=~" and you get the lib in ~/lib/python
[02:26] <ajmitch> I know
[02:27] <ajmitch> I still tend to prefer things tidier ;)
[02:27] <crimsun> hmm, where's fabbione
[02:28] <ajmitch> still in london, I suppose
[02:28] <ajmitch> what sparc breakage are you doing?
[02:29] <crimsun> I just need him or another sparc hero to double{, and triple}-check this free_irq/iounmap fix
[02:30] <crimsun> it makes sense logically, but I would rather have someone better versed in sparc look at it
[02:30] <ajmitch> I don't know the code well enough yet
[02:30] <crimsun> oh wait, benc, duh
[02:39] <crimsun> I love auditing sound/ once I see a quirk :/
[02:40] <LaserJock> bmonty: can you uninstall when you do python setup.py?
[02:43] <ajmitch> LaserJock: rm -rf
[02:44] <LaserJock> that's not very nice
[02:44] <LaserJock> if you do more than one
[02:46] <bmonty> LaserJock: yeah, I think the python setup module can do uninstall
[02:47] <bmonty> I take that back, it doesn't appear to have an uninstall option
[02:47] <LaserJock> :/
[02:47] <bmonty> my code generates a single file, so it isn't that hard to remove :)
[02:47] <LaserJock> I installed bzr on my mac that way but then I got it through fink so I want to uninstall the one I did from source
[03:08] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:09] <zakame> hi all!
[03:09] <zakame> hi bddebian!
[03:09] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[03:10] <ajmitch> hey zakame
[03:10] <bddebian> ajmitch
[03:10] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[03:10] <LaserJock> hi zakame
[03:10] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[03:10] <ajmitch> bddebian
[03:12] <zakame> hi ajmitch LaserJock
[04:53] <bugnthecode> this room is quiet. any watching?
[04:53] <crimsun> yes, we're just exhausted. What's up?
[04:54] <bugnthecode> well, I just got dapper up and going today, and wanted to get into some linux programming, and more importantly maybe contribute to ubuntu
[04:54] <crimsun> there are some good links in the /topic if you'd like to start there
[04:55] <bugnthecode> would an amateur developer be able to contribute much?
[04:55] <crimsun> absolutely.
[04:55] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: yeah, this place is great for getting started
[04:55] <crimsun> coding's most definitely not the only space for contribution
[04:56] <bugnthecode> I saw on the main ubuntu that there were other ways to contribute like spreading the word, and bug testing
[04:57] <LaserJock> sure
[04:57] <crimsun> yep, #ubuntu-bugs is an /awesome/ place to start, too
[04:57] <LaserJock> basically, whatever your interest is, Ubuntu has a place to get involved, not matter your skill level
[04:58] <bugnthecode> awesome.
[04:58] <bugnthecode> since I'm new to linux development, and team development, are there any tools or specific standards that contributing developers should be using?
[04:59] <crimsun> guidelines are at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[04:59] <crimsun> (that may be redirected in a few days to a new location, as I believe there's a wiki migration occurring)
[05:00] <LaserJock> nah, that one will stay
[05:00] <crimsun> for MOTU specifically, REVU is a valuable tool, and you can find out more about that in the wiki's MOTU section
[05:01] <crimsun> LaserJock maintains a packaging guide that you'll find useful
[05:01] <bugnthecode> any "standard" development environments or language standards usually used for linux development?
[05:01] <crimsun> and as always, just ask when you have questions, though it may take a bit for someone to answer as we're all volunteers
[05:02] <crimsun> (well, nearly all volunteers)
[05:02] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: could you be a little more specific with what you want to do?
[05:02] <bddebian> apt-get install build-essential devscripts :-)
[05:02] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: do you want to package programs? or write programs? or fix bugs? or ..
[05:02] <bddebian> bon apetit crimsun :)
[05:02] <bugnthecode> I'm looking to write programs
[05:03] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: ok, so if you want to do GUIs then the most common widget sets are GTK (Gnome) and QT (KDE)
[05:03] <LaserJock> but pretty much any language goes
[05:04] <bugnthecode> and what about fixing bugs?
[05:04] <bddebian> Except Perl.  That's not allowed. ;-P
[05:04] <bugnthecode> lol, not a perl lover?
[05:04] <LaserJock> bddebian: ssssh
[05:04] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: Ubuntu does favor Python somewhat
[05:05] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: we have lots of bug lists and we always need triaging and if you can come up with a patch that's awesome
[05:05] <bugnthecode> I've never gone bug hunting, how would I get started with that. I think I'd like to start there first, instead of full blown development.
[05:06] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[05:06] <LaserJock> we have lots to hunt
[05:06] <LaserJock> and the major hangout for bug fixing is #ubuntu-bugs
[05:07] <bugnthecode> thanks!
[05:08] <LaserJock> no problem, that's what we are here for (most of the time) :-)
[05:08] <bugnthecode> out of curiosity, what do you do for ubuntu (besides volunteer to answering my newbie linux questions)?
[05:09] <LaserJock> I'm on the documentation team and on try to help with Edubuntu
[05:09] <bugnthecode> cool
[05:10] <bddebian> I just annoy people :-)
[05:10] <LaserJock> and of course try to fix bugs
[05:10] <LaserJock> I'm a chemist so I try to work on Science packages here
[05:10] <bugnthecode> awesome, I work with a bunch of biochemists
[05:11] <Kyral> I spout random anime references :P
[05:11] <bddebian> heh
[05:11] <Kyral> And now
[05:11] <Kyral> TO THE SHOWER!!
[05:11] <bddebian> Yeah, Kyral might actually be more annoying than me ;-)
[05:12] <LaserJock> Kyral: and get crazy about hurd :-)
[05:12] <Kyral> Jeez, I had to give myself a crash course in Perl today :P
[05:12] <LaserJock> ewwww
[05:12] <Kyral> but really
[05:12] <Kyral> Kyral->shower();
[05:21] <LaserJock> hmm, does free server hosting exist?
[05:30] <LaserJock> hmm, I guess somebody just needs to give me an account on there server ;-)
[05:31] <bugnthecode> lol
[05:31] <bugnthecode> what kind of hosting are you looking for?
[05:32] <LaserJock> well, I'd like to at least have a storage place online
[05:33] <LaserJock> I'm often behind firewalls etc, that make it hard to access stuff
[05:33] <LaserJock> but maybe I'm just being greedy now ;-)
[05:33] <bugnthecode> I've seen some free or really low cost hosting, but they always have that damn limit on bandwidth
[05:33] <bddebian> LaserJock: I have a box I set up to be my archive for Ubuntu/Hurd if you want
[05:34] <LaserJock> bddebian: thanks for the offer but I don't know that I should be taking away from the Hubuntu project :-)
[05:36] <bddebian> I don't know if I'll ever do it.  The Debian folks like Debian and the GNU folks are too zealous for me :-)
[05:36] <LaserJock> I guess I could use the Chemistry department server, but I hate doing that for non-school related stuff
[05:37] <LaserJock> and tiber.tauware.de and doc.ubuntu.com probably wouldn't be appropriate for my little personal playground
[05:37] <LaserJock> if I could access my school computers it wouldn't be so bad
[05:39] <LaserJock> anyway, that is waaay OT
[05:53] <LaserJock> anybody know how to password protect a webpage?
[05:58] <LaserJock> Sp4rKy: could you turn off the public away? thanks.
[06:00] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I am assuming that it has something to do with .htaccess files.
[06:00] <TheMuso> BTW are you excited about Parris?
[06:01] <bddebian> Yeah, you can use .htaccess or there are other methods available
[06:02] <crimsun> bddebian: hehe, thanks
[06:03] <LaserJock> TheMuso: yeah, I got my passport and plane tickets (sort of) so I'm feeling a little more excited
[06:03] <bddebian> crimsun: ?
[06:03] <bddebian> Oh, :-)
[06:04] <LaserJock> hmm, and how do you find space quotas for a user?
[06:04] <LaserJock> sorry for the linux101 here
[06:04] <crimsun> ``quota'' or ``fs quota'' depending on the fs
[06:06] <LaserJock> hmm, no go. Maybe I don't have a quota
[06:08] <LaserJock> yikes, I'm using 1.6GB on the department server
[06:09] <bddebian> heh
[06:11] <LaserJock> I guess I had a /home backup on there, oops
[06:19] <bddebian> Ack, gnight folks
[06:20] <crimsun> 'night bddebian
[06:23] <Sp4rKy> LaserJock, yes i'll do
[06:23] <LaserJock> Sp4rKy: thanks :-)
[06:24] <Sp4rKy> :)
[06:29] <LaserJock> I suppose all the cool people are out at release parties
[06:29] <ajmitch> of course
[06:29] <ajmitch> which is why I'm still here
[06:30] <crimsun> well, bddebian just left, so I guess all the cool people are out :-)
[06:30] <ajmitch> it's just us wannabe developers left
[06:30] <LaserJock> yep
[06:31] <ajmitch> well, wannabes & laserjock
[06:31] <ajmitch> & crimsun
[06:31] <ajmitch> who's special for getting a congrats in the kernel changelog
[06:31] <whiprush_> heh
[06:32] <ajmitch> hey whiprush_
[06:32] <whiprush_> only 18 hours until our release party.
[06:32] <LaserJock> I'm just sitting in the kitchen listening to the wife cooking and trying to clean up computers
[06:33] <ajmitch> hehe
[06:33] <ajmitch> if only I had a wife to cook for me.. :)
[06:34] <LaserJock> well, she is also trying to get me to help ;-)
[06:34] <LaserJock> so I'm "working"
[06:34] <ajmitch> ah yes
[06:34] <whiprush_> man, the digg unix/linux queue is crammed with *buntu stuff.
[06:34] <whiprush_> crazy.
[06:35] <ajmitch> whiprush_: who'd care about that piece of...?
[06:35] <whiprush_> ajmitch: *shrug*
[06:35] <ajmitch> crazy people
[06:35] <whiprush_> ajmitch: that makes you a ROCK STAR.
[06:35] <ajmitch> ah, *finally* twiki lets me register
[06:35] <ajmitch> useless POC
[06:36] <ajmitch> whiprush_: how am I a ROCK STAR?
[06:37] <whiprush_> ajmitch: just felt like fanboing you for a minute. :D
[06:37] <whiprush_> only a minute though, don't push it.
[06:37] <ajmitch> heh
[06:37] <ajmitch> that's a minute longer than I ever deserve :)
[06:38] <ajmitch> now, my activity for the evening is hot, hot SPECS
[06:39] <Kyral> Kyral->bed();
[06:40] <LaserJock> ajmitch: cool, for SoC stuf?
[06:41] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yep
[06:41] <ajmitch> & also non-SoC, I think
[06:41] <ajmitch> time to write up some draft specs
[06:41] <LaserJock> cool
[06:42] <LaserJock> I'd like to do that too, but I'm afraid I don't have much for good ideas
[06:42] <ajmitch> but I need to do network auth with mithrandir tonight, before he goes away for the weekend
[06:42] <ajmitch> jane wants SoC specs by monday
[06:43] <LaserJock> JaneW?
[06:44] <ajmitch> yes
[06:44] <ajmitch> mistress janew, the one with the whip :P
[06:44] <ajmitch> scary person
[06:45] <LaserJock> yes, sadly she won't be here much longer :/
[06:45] <ajmitch> really?
[06:45] <LaserJock> yep
[06:45] <LaserJock> she won't even be in Paris
[06:45] <LaserJock> :(
[06:46] <ajmitch> that's sad
[06:46] <ajmitch> I've noticed a few silent additions to the canonical flock in various areas
[06:46] <LaserJock> yeah, the long hours and frequent trips
[06:46] <ajmitch> like the support team being formed up in montreal
[06:47] <ajmitch> doesn't surprise me that there's some turnover in staff though
[06:48] <ajmitch> canonical doesn't seem like a place where you can slack off ;)
[06:49] <LaserJock> and she has kids, so that's tough
[06:50] <whiprush_> janew is moving on?
[06:50] <ajmitch> yep
[06:50] <ajmitch> whiprush_: you going to be in paris?
[06:50] <whiprush_> no.
[06:50] <ajmitch> ah
[06:50] <ajmitch> neither shall I
[06:50] <ajmitch> only rock stars like LaserJock :)
[06:50] <whiprush_> I'm hitting the ubucon they're doing after LWE in san francisco though.
[06:50] <LaserJock> \o/
[06:51] <LaserJock> whiprush_: I was planning on that too
[06:51] <whiprush_> LaserJock: sweet.
[06:51] <LaserJock> I live ~ 4hrs drive from there
[06:51] <ajmitch> whiprush_: got anything cool queued for the fridge?
[06:51] <crimsun> we're missing out on ponies in Paris :((
[06:52] <ajmitch> LaserJock: nice, I'm only about 14 hours flight from SF :)
[06:52] <whiprush_> ajmitch: no, I've been slacking.
[06:52] <ajmitch> it's great being in NZ, far away from anywhere & anyone
[06:52] <ajmitch> having to pay exorbitant amounts :)
[06:52] <ajmitch> crimsun: no ponies?
[06:52] <whiprush_> spending too much time at work. :-/
[06:52] <ajmitch> never a good sign
[06:53] <whiprush_> well, it's all linux stuff, so it's mostly self inflicted.
[06:53] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but you guys had UDU
[06:54] <ajmitch> we did
[06:54] <ajmitch> and we also have LCA in our region
[06:54] <whiprush_> ajmitch: today I had what I call a "cool" emergency ... one of the windows labs blew up so the prof had to move it at the last minute to our new dapper lab.
[06:54] <ajmitch> this year being better than most for LCA
[06:54] <ajmitch> whiprush_: haha, nice
[06:54] <whiprush_> So I stayed after to help students learn the new stuff.
[06:54] <whiprush_> took all night, but rewarding.
[06:55] <ajmitch> what new stuff did you have to show?
[06:55] <whiprush_> well, some commercial CAD apps on amd64.
[06:55] <whiprush_> I was supposed to test it all summer, but it was either cancel it or send 40 people home.
[06:55] <whiprush_> so we just let them loose on the dapper lab.
[06:56] <whiprush_> ended up working great.
[06:56] <ajmitch> you using ldap/kerberos there? :)
[06:56] <whiprush_> all those little memory optimizations add up when you have all of them on one server
[06:56] <whiprush_> ajmitch: yep. :D
[06:56] <ajmitch> cool
[06:57] <ajmitch> give me your feature requests, your problems..
[06:57] <whiprush_> printing even worked ootb, I didn't expect that.
[06:57] <LaserJock> I talked to the deparment sys admin (a CS major) and he said that our uni got rid of most of the linux lab :(
[06:57] <ajmitch> LaserJock: typical
[06:57] <whiprush_> ajmitch: I've requisitioned some servers and planned to throw them into your SoC testing cause.
[06:57] <ajmitch> whiprush_: you are my hero
[06:58] <whiprush_> ajmitch: yeah, not ready soon, but probably by the time you're ready to test.
[06:58] <LaserJock> ajmitch: what do you need testing for?
[06:58] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ldap+kerberos client & server setup
[06:59] <ajmitch> bmonty has also offered to sacrifice a few chickens for the cause
[06:59] <LaserJock> hehe
[06:59] <LaserJock> dang it, sometimes I wish I was a CS major so this could be more than a 40hr a week hobby :-)
[07:00] <ajmitch> hehe
[07:00] <whiprush_> I am starting my CS masters in the fall, not looking forward to it.
[07:00] <ajmitch> whiprush_: interesting, what in?
[07:00] <crimsun> I think if you were a CS major, you'd quickly wish for something different ;-)
[07:01] <whiprush_> they just started a more practical program at my U, less math/theory, more practical deployment/networking stuff.
[07:01] <whiprush_> It's more of an "IT" type course, but under CS.
[07:01] <ajmitch> nice
[07:01] <ajmitch> sounds like some of the telecommunications stuff here
[07:01] <LaserJock> I'm 4 years into my PhD so I think it is a little late to switch majors :-)
[07:02] <ajmitch> which I've been involved with
[07:02] <ajmitch> LaserJock: never!
[07:02] <whiprush_> ajmitch: yeah my undergrad is in telecomm.
[07:02] <crimsun> LaserJock: just get another
[07:02] <ajmitch> I'm sure his wife would love that
[07:02] <LaserJock> I've been thinking about the possibility of working for a chemistry software company
[07:02] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I'd be dead, not doubt about it
[07:03] <crimsun> your wife won't allow you to work for a software development firm?
[07:03] <ajmitch> I think the death threats would be from doing another PHD
[07:03] <whiprush_> ajmitch: they offer some undergrad "open source" classes, but they're not very good.
[07:04] <whiprush_> in our area the top oss-friendly programs are at the university of michigan, which has a program I could never get into.
[07:04] <crimsun> oh man, I'm being dragged away from my research this summer to teach a course on Linux fundamentals. I am totally bringing ponies.
[07:05] <ajmitch> crimsun: take some ponies to paris
[07:05] <ajmitch> smuggle them through customs
[07:05] <whiprush_> If only we had a linux course. I'm having a hard time dragging our greybeard UNIX faculty away from solaris 8.
[07:05] <crimsun> ajmitch: I'm not able to go, which is why we're missing out :/
[07:05] <ajmitch> crimsun: oh :(
[07:05] <ajmitch> chronic pony shortage then
[07:06] <whiprush_> crimsun: what are is your research in?
[07:07] <whiprush_> crimsun: area I mean.
[07:07] <crimsun> whiprush_: grid computing, but this summer I'm messing with autonomous agents
[07:07] <whiprush_> sounds neat.
[07:08] <crimsun> I'm quickly learning that while C++ is nice for simulations, I really miss Python
[07:09] <whiprush_> heh I was about to say "I'd kill for a new faculty guy who was hot on python."
[07:09] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, another PhD
[07:09] <LaserJock> ajmitch: a real job she'd like :-)
[07:09] <crimsun> hmm, there are a few of those in the SoCal area (USCD, UCB)
[07:10] <tuxmaniac> morning guys
[07:10] <crimsun> Berkeley, Stanford, and MIT crank out a lot of Ph.D.s quite hot over FLOSS
[07:10] <whiprush_> ajmitch: on the plus side, I've had faculty call me all day asking for an upgrade to dapper, so my life doesn't suck too bad. :D
[07:11] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: I am planning to do a masters cum Phd on Embedded Systems.. Is there any sugestion for me?
[07:11] <ajmitch> how I wish I had people begging me for that ;)
[07:11] <ajmitch> tuxmaniac: lots of caffeine
[07:12] <tuxmaniac> ajmitch: heh. I wanted on some University
[07:12] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: hmm, any specifics?
[07:12] <tuxmaniac> Embedded Linux RTOS etc
[07:12] <tuxmaniac> I meant the device driver layer
[07:12] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: ^
[07:13] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: the European universities are much hotter into that than most US ones, particularly German and Dutch ones
[07:13] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: hmmm..
[07:13] <crimsun> on the other hand, UIUC has a great program for EE/CE/CS
[07:14] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: hmm.. great! But euro univs dont provide financial asistance to international students if i am right?
[07:14] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: honestly I don't know
[07:15] <ajmitch> TheMuso: it's not needed :)
[07:15] <TheMuso> I am just finishing off a TAFE course here n Aus for IT stuff. Just to get the piece of paper saying that I am capable etc etc.
[07:16] <crimsun> hmph, tauneutrino isn't online, else I'd refer you to her. She's a Buffalo grad who got her M.S. from UTwente
[07:16] <TheMuso> The field I intend to get into doesn't have any official certification as far as I know, but I am not interested in doing research. :)
[07:17] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: if you're based out of the US, there may be an exchange program
[07:17] <crimsun> and you can always scour for a prof going on sabbatical to another country
[07:18] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: thanks. But am from INDIA
[07:18] <crimsun> are you based out of IIT?
[07:45] <dholbach> good morning, party folks! :-)
[07:46] <Gloubiboulga> hey dholbach!
[07:46] <dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
[07:46] <LaserJock> dholbach!
[07:47] <ajmitch> dholbach!
[07:47] <dholbach> heya LaserJock, ajmitch!
[07:47] <ajmitch> how are you?
[07:48] <dholbach> just waking up and soon digging into gnome 2.14.x for dapper-updates
[07:48] <ajmitch> excellent
[07:48] <ajmitch> then I get get the new 2.6.17 crack
[07:49] <ajmitch> or I could just build from git
[07:49] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Me too.
[07:50] <TheMuso> I usually wait a few months before jumping abord the new release, but since I intend to get much more heavily involved from now on, I'll be running edgy on everything but a few machines that I need a working system on. :)
[07:52] <dholbach> after that i'll be on dapper everywhere too :-)
[07:54] <TheMuso> dapper, or edgy?
[07:59] <LaserJock> time fo bed for me, good night all
[08:00] <LaserJock> have a wonderful day
[08:00] <LaserJock> and thanks for all the work, you guys (and Hobbsee) rock!
[08:05] <Toadstool> heya motus
[08:07] <ajmitch> hi
[08:08] <Gloubiboulga> morning Toadstool
[08:08] <Toadstool> hi ajmitch & Gloubiboulga
[08:45] <kagou> hi
[08:45] <Toadstool> hi kagou
[08:45] <kagou> hello Toadstool
[08:50] <AnAnt> when will the repos for the new ubuntu (one after dapper) open ?
[08:51] <Hobbsee> hi all
[08:51] <TheMuso> Whenever the core devs open it.
[08:51] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
[08:51] <TheMuso> What a damn miserable day.
[08:51] <Hobbsee> edgy released?  2 days after the last person asked.
[08:51] <TheMuso> Here in Sydney at least. :)
[08:51] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: so true.
[08:52] <AnAnt> did you guys modify in the kernel ?
[08:52] <AnAnt> I mean add drivers
[08:52] <Mithrandir> yes
[08:52] <tuxmaniac> AnAnt: yes. you mean from the vanilla one?
[08:53] <Mithrandir> hi Hobbsee, TheMuso
[08:53] <AnAnt> because I just tried 2.6.16 kernel & it can't detect my TI card reader
[08:53] <AnAnt> I got the 2.6.16 from Debian
[08:53] <AnAnt> I got the 2.6.16 from Debian's source package
[08:53] <AnAnt> I mean from debian one
[08:53] <TheMuso> 2.6.16 needs a newer udev than the one in dapper.
[08:53] <tuxmaniac> yes. Ubuntu-kernel team have done a lot of kernel additions
[08:53] <tuxmaniac> AnAnt: ^
[08:53] <AnAnt> ic
[08:53] <Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
[08:53] <tuxmaniac> especially on this udev intereaction
[08:54] <TheMuso> as far as I understand from Scott's emails to the dev list re the 2.6.16 thread.
[08:54] <tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: Am i right?
[08:54] <TheMuso> Hi Mithrandir.
[08:54] <AnAnt> well, I wanted the 2.6.16 to operate an MMCplus device
[08:54] <tuxmaniac> AnAnt: hm..
[08:54] <AnAnt> so, I think the solution is to use the kernel source from ubuntu's repos then apply the patch for mmcplus
[08:55] <Mithrandir> AnAnt: probably.
[08:55] <tuxmaniac> peerfect.. See mmcplus drivers are already built into the kern first
[08:55] <Mithrandir> tuxmaniac: unsure, I don't watch the udev/kernel stuff too closely.
[08:55] <AnAnt> tuxmaniac: huh?
[08:55] <tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: aah OK
[08:55] <tuxmaniac> AnAnt: naah.. forget it
[08:56] <AnAnt> how can I download a patch for a certain kernel file ?
[08:57] <TheMuso> According to an email I have from the dev list here re the 2.6.16 stuff, 2.6.16 has sysfs filesystem structure changes, and udev itself has changed somewhat for newer kernels.
[08:58] <tuxmaniac> 2.6.16 still not up on the repos on Ubuntu. its still 2.6.15-23.35
[08:58] <tuxmaniac> benc is still testing it..
[08:58] <AnAnt> tuxmaniac: yeah, unfortunately
[08:58] <AnAnt> tuxmaniac: you mean it's on REVU ?
[08:58] <TheMuso> I think edgy will be going straight to 2.6.17-rc
[08:59] <tuxmaniac> some probs on IA64 arch
[08:59] <tuxmaniac> If I remember right
[08:59] <crimsun> yes, edgy is 2.6.17-git atm
[08:59] <tuxmaniac> AnAnt: which part of India are you from?
[08:59] <AnAnt> tuxmaniac: none
[08:59] <Mithrandir> tuxmaniac: our 2.6.15 is almost upstream 2.6.16, though.
[08:59] <crimsun> dapper will remain 2.6.15ish
[08:59] <tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: yeah agreed
[09:01] <highvoltage> sorry, just lame joke :)
[09:02] <tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: Btw then no more releases on the 2.6.16-X
[09:03] <tuxmaniac> for dapper?
[09:03] <tuxmaniac> edgy will directly be on a 2.6.17 ? I dint know this
[09:04] <AnAnt> is it possible to get the new kernel version thru dapper-backports ?
[09:04] <crimsun> not yet, considering edgy isn't even active
[09:04] <crimsun> that would/will be a maintenance nightmare, too
[09:05] <AnAnt> I mean, when it becomes active
[09:05] <crimsun> I don't know; I think it may be discussed in Paris
[09:06] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: going too?
[09:06] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: no, work has me here
[09:06] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: I have some company then :-)
[09:07] <AnAnt> I hope Edgy will have PREEMPT  kernel
[09:07] <TheMuso> Dapper already does.
[09:07] <AnAnt> it made my simulations faster
[09:07] <AnAnt> TheMuso: yeah, that's why I hope Edgy will continue with that
[09:08] <crimsun> it is highly unlikely that preempt support will be removed from the desktop kernels
[09:09] <AnAnt> cool
[09:10] <AnAnt> is the splash image that appears during booting something put in the kernel ?
[09:10] <Mithrandir> no
[09:10] <AnAnt> oh
[09:11] <Mithrandir> it's entirely userspace and done by usplash
[09:11] <AnAnt> because I didn't the splash image when I booted with 2.6.16 kernel that I compiled
[09:11] <tuxmaniac> if you custom compile a kernel it goes off
[09:11] <AnAnt> why's that?
[09:11] <tuxmaniac> you have to configure it back
[09:12] <crimsun> that's because you probably didn't update your initramfs for your custom kernel (if you in fact have initr* support enabled)
[09:12] <tuxmaniac> Yeah.. I do have
[09:14] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: What do I have to do to get it back?
[09:14] <crimsun> update-initramfs [-u] 
[09:14] <AnAnt> crimsun: ok, let's say I get the 2.6.15 kernel source from dapper's repos, and apply a patch & recompile, I still have to do that update thing ?
[09:14] <tuxmaniac> But for sure there is something wrong with the udev <-> kernel thing
[09:15] <crimsun> AnAnt: yes, though if you use the Ubuntu packaging infrastructure it's done automatically
[09:15] <tuxmaniac> when you custom compile 2.6.16 stuff
[09:15] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: yep, known
[09:15] <tuxmaniac> hmm..
[09:15] <AnAnt> crimsun: what do you mean by Ubuntu packaging infrastructure ? you mean like use make-kpkg ?
[09:16] <crimsun> AnAnt: meaning if a deb is generated
[09:16] <crimsun> (yes, using make-kpkg)
[09:16] <AnAnt> crimsun: yes, it was generated & I installed the deb file
[09:16] <AnAnt> crimsun: that's what I did with 2.6.16 too
[09:24] <AnAnt> thx
[09:32] <opse3> what is the dapper equivalent of breezy's nvidia-glx?
[09:33] <crimsun> nvidia-glx
[09:35] <opse3> oh, ok, but now there's another problem: if i want to install it (on breezy, in order to upgrade to dapper), it says it want to remove the following packages: nvidia-settings, x-common, xorg-common, xserver-common, busybox-cvs-initramfs
[09:35] <opse3> crimsun ^
[09:35] <opse3> crimsun: should i accept that?
[09:35] <opse3> crimsun: and, if so, what is the equivalent of nvidia-settings in dapper?
[09:37] <opse3> it wants*
[09:38] <crimsun> none of those are absolutely necessary
[09:38] <crimsun> (they're all purged on my system, for instance)
[09:38] <sladen> opse3: let it do its magic
[09:38] <crimsun> and the equivalent is, unsurprisingly enough, nvidia-settings :-)
[09:39] <sladen> opse3: and then file a bug regarding the fact that 'nvidia-glx' Conflicts: nvidia-settings
[09:39] <sladen> (most likely reason is that nvidia-glx now contains that binary)
[09:39] <ajmitch> sladen: correct, and nvidia-settings should be removed
[09:40] <ajmitch> the latest update-manager should handle these cases now
[09:40] <opse3> ajmitch: then why does dapper also include nvidia-settings (as crimsun just noted) and as i also just noticed in my synaptic?
[09:40] <opse3> ajmitch: then why does dapper also include nvidia-settings (as crimsun just noted and as i also just noticed in my synaptic)?*
[09:41] <opse3> ajmitch: is update-manager better than apt-get upgrade?
[09:41] <ajmitch> yes, update-manager is the recommended upgrade path
[09:41] <ajmitch> iirc
[09:41] <ajmitch> and I don't know why nvidia-settings is still in the repository for dapper
[09:43] <Hobbsee|Icicle> hi ajmitch and opse3
[09:43] <opse3> ajmitch: but i must do the upgrade in more sessions
[09:43] <ajmitch> hi
[09:43] <opse3> ajmitch: update-manager doesn't allow me to select which packages to upgrade at a time
[09:43] <opse3> Hobbsee|Icicle: hi
[10:07] <ajmitch> morning \sh
[11:05] <imbrandon> ajmitch ping
[11:06] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yes?
[11:06] <imbrandon> heya are you familiar with building a pkg for revu ?
[11:06] <ajmitch> yes
[11:06] <imbrandon> i have the package bulding fine with debuild the way i like but dont i need to build it with -S or -S -sa for revu ?
[11:07] <Hobbsee> mmm...dinner...
[11:07] <imbrandon> i've never done a revu before
[11:07] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yes you do
[11:07] <ajmitch> you must build with -S -sa
[11:07] <imbrandon> ok -S -sa kk thanks , i think i got the rest down pat
[11:08] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: means include sources
[11:08] <imbrandon> ahh
[11:08] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: write a shell script for it - it's quicker.
[11:08] <imbrandon> its only one perl file and one conf file so the src would be included anyhow hehehe but yea
[11:09] <ajmitch> having source included != source debian package
[11:09] <ajmitch> since we need to review the debian/ dir
[11:09] <imbrandon> yea ajmitch i got it, i just meant in general
[11:09] <imbrandon> kinda brain fart
[11:09] <imbrandon> as far as pure source that is
[11:11] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: ping
[11:14] <\sh> jo
[11:14] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[11:14] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: can we delay until the hour?
[11:14] <ajmitch> sure
[11:53] <opse3> what is the name of the app that checks all orphans which {{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}} can be safely removed?
[11:53] <opse3> the "{{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}}" is mandatory
[12:04] <ajmitch> alright.
[12:07] <imbrandon> opse3, deborphan ?
[12:12] <sivang> I will help you over the package
[12:12] <sivang> is it a python tol?
[12:14] <imbrandon> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2352   <--- if any MOTU's wanna have a look for me
[12:15] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: free now?
[12:17] <ajmitch> hey schweeb
[12:17] <ajmitch> imbrandon: so this is something that someone else has done, and you've just made a couple of changes?
[12:17] <imbrandon> ajmitch yes , and its currently not in debian or dapper ( would like to target edgy )
[12:18] <imbrandon> the official one can be found at http://apt-mirror.sf.net
[12:18] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: hiya
[12:18] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: sorry about the delay
[12:18] <ajmitch> then you'd need to fix the version numbers such that it's -0ubuntu1 or similar
[12:18] <imbrandon> ok , wasent sure on that since it wasent in debian
[12:19] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: alright, no problem :)
[12:19] <imbrandon> is there a way to fix that upload or just reupload ?
[12:20] <ajmitch> imbrandon: reupload, and the upstream should be educated as to what an orig.tar.gz is
[12:20] <imbrandon> ok
[12:21] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: where shall we start?
[12:21] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: you've been speccing out some more, haven't you?
[12:22] <ajmitch> yes, it's not up on the wiki
[12:22] <ajmitch> a few changes locally
[12:22] <Mithrandir> also, should we discuss this here or in #ubuntu-networkauth or something?
[12:22] <Mithrandir> gobby works for me, I just need to install it
[12:30] <imbrandon> ajmitch : ok re-uploaded http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2353
[12:43] <opse3> imbrandon: i don't think deborphan has any idea what an official dapper must include by default.
[01:34] <TheMuso> If one uses qemu tools to create a vmdk, how does one then create the vmx file for vmware-player?
[01:35] <imbrandon> TheMuso, by hand with nano or such
[01:35] <imbrandon> its justa txt file
[01:35] <TheMuso> But what do you put in it?
[01:35] <TheMuso> c
[01:35] <TheMuso> ....not that. :)
[01:35] <imbrandon> one sec
[01:36] <imbrandon> here is an online form to build one for you
[01:36] <imbrandon> http://www.easyvmx.com/expertform.shtml
[01:36] <imbrandon> then you can tweak it with <fav txt editor here> as needed
[01:37] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[01:40] <zul> heylo
[01:52] <imbrandon> heya zul
[01:53] <zul> hey imbrandon
[01:54] <ajmitch> zul!
[01:54] <zul> stalker!
[01:54] <ajmitch> heh
[01:54] <imbrandon> lol
[01:59] <HiddenHobbsee> hey zul
[03:21] <opse3> what is the name of the app that checks all orphans which {{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}} can be safely removed?
[03:22] <opse3> the "{{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}}" is mandatory
[03:33] <havoc> morning
[03:34] <havoc> so, what's the state of ubuntu *writing* to NTFS partitions, like in a bual-coot env?
[03:35] <opse3> havoc: maybe you mean reading, not writing.
[03:36] <havoc> nope, I want to write
[03:36] <havoc> reading isn't a problem
[03:36] <thierryn> ajmitch : can you change the topic now that dapper has been released?
[03:36] <havoc> I've heard of 'captive', which apparently uses ntfs.sys directly or something
[03:39] <opse3> havoc: iirc, there are legal issues with captive
[03:39] <havoc> ah
[03:40] <opse3> havoc: however, maybe you should ask on #ubuntu-devel
[03:40] <havoc> I was just curious
[03:40] <opse3> havoc: there may be some unofficial repos that include this, though
[03:40] <opse3> thierryn: what would need to be changed in the current topic?
[03:40] <havoc> figured ajmitch, ogra, or chillywilly might have something to say about it, but they're not here right now
[03:44] <thierryn> opse3 : to remove the fact that we are in feature freeze and say something like "yeah we realeased dapper drake!"
[03:54] <opse3> thierryn: oh, hadn't noticed that
[03:55] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:56] <havoc> bddebian: hiya
[03:56] <bddebian> Hello havoc
[03:58] <havoc> I may *finally* install ubuntu (on my vaio), now that I've finally figured out how to replace the hdd
[03:58] <bddebian> Great
[03:58] <havoc> got a 120gb hdd coming today :)
[04:37] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: booo
[04:37] <tuxmaniac> heya gang
[04:40] <bddebian> Heh, hi tuxmaniac
[04:40] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: howdy
[04:40] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: brb
[04:40] <tuxmaniac> am outside
[04:41] <tuxmaniac> see ya
[04:46] <LaserJock> morning people
[04:46] <Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
[04:47] <LaserJock> Hobbsee!
[04:47] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: :)
[04:47] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: you do any Dapper partying last night?
[04:47] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i did not - i found a kubuntu user today though
[04:47] <Hobbsee> didnt party :(
[04:47] <LaserJock> me neither
[04:48] <LaserJock> I just hung out here
[04:48] <LaserJock> gosh, we are boring :-)
[04:51] <StevenK> I had to get home, otherwise I would have gone out and watched other people drink beer.
[04:52] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:54] <StevenK> Hobbsee: You? In #ubuntu-devel?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, for the moment
[04:54] <StevenK> Gasp.
[04:54] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:54] <Hobbsee> dont die of shock :
[04:54] <Hobbsee> :P
[04:55] <\sh> I partied 2 times
[04:55] <\sh> before and after the release
[04:55] <\sh> now we have 20 more kubuntu fans in this company
[04:56] <LaserJock> cool
[05:02] <bddebian> Hehe, heya LaserJock
[05:02] <LaserJock> are you boring too bddebian?
[05:03] <zul> yeah he is :)
[05:06] <\sh> ok..going home
[05:07] <bddebian> LaserJock: Yep :'-(
[05:08] <Kyral_Laptop> anyone decent with perl?
[05:08] <LaserJock> no
[05:09] <Kyral_Laptop> psh
[05:49] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: of course i do :P
[05:50] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: tricked ya didn't I, hehe :-)
[05:50] <Hobbsee> you're all big scary horrible people :P
[05:50] <Hobbsee> @time sydney
[05:50] <Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: June 03 2006, 01:50:14
[05:50] <crimsun> what? bddebian can't be boring, he's a deity
[05:50] <LaserJock> you sayin' I'm fat?
[05:50] <Hobbsee> hmmm....
[05:50] <Hobbsee> i said nothing of the sort.
[05:50] <LaserJock> you said "big"
[05:50] <Hobbsee> yes, big as in tall.
[05:50] <LaserJock> the scary and horrible, well that might apply ;-)
[05:51] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:56] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: if i do eventually come to a dev meetup, i'll make sure i ignore you, so you have a basis to believe that i hate you.  how's that sound?
[05:57] <LaserJock> :'(
[05:58] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:06] <bddebian> crimsun: I hate you! ;-P
[06:07] <Hobbsee> bddebian: whyever so, hehe?
[06:07] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Because he mocks me because I'm st00pid
[06:07] <Hobbsee> ah :P
[06:07] <Hobbsee> oh yes, from above
[06:11] <tuxmaniac> hi jpatrick
[06:11] <tuxmaniac> how are you?
[06:11] <jpatrick> hi tuxmaniac
[06:11] <tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Long time no see.. So celbrated Dapper?
[06:11] <Hobbsee> hey jpatrick and tuxmaniac
[06:11] <tuxmaniac> hi Hobbsee
[06:11] <jpatrick> tuxmaniac: no nothing/noone to celebrate with
[06:14] <jpatrick> tuxmaniac: I'm okay, I guess, how about you?
[06:15] <tuxmaniac> jpatrick: aah, doing good. Just that dapper has made life simple and not testing my hcking skills. :-)
[06:15] <thierryn> If I want to update my chroot, do I put edgy as the distribution?
[06:16] <bddebian> thierryn: AFAIK, edgy repo isn't open yet
[06:16] <thierryn> k thanks
[06:43] <Tonio_> hi
[06:48] <bddebian> Heya Tonio_
[06:48] <Tonio_> hey bddebian :)
[07:19] <Kyral_Laptop> It works...
[07:19] <Kyral_Laptop> hehe
[07:19] <Kyral_Laptop> the perl rewrite of my script :D
[09:34] <WolfPython> hi,
[09:35] <WolfPython> I need some getting started with packaging.
[09:36] <Bluekuja> WolfPython, http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
[09:36] <WolfPython> Can you guys give me some advise on where to start? Any recommended doc or book to read?
[09:36] <Bluekuja> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html   for libraries
[09:37] <Bluekuja> read also debian policy and so on, anyway it's all linked in New Maint guide document
[09:38] <WolfPython> Wow. So it is true! You guys ARE really help full. Thank you. I will look into all of those.
[09:38] <Bluekuja> ok great :)
[09:38] <WolfPython> Does the motu-school a live?
[09:38] <WolfPython> I read it in the archives
[09:39] <Bluekuja> do you mean motu-school team?
[09:39] <Bluekuja> or what?
[09:40] <WolfPython> yes. sorry
[09:40] <Bluekuja> anyway if you have problems with packaging just ask and someone will answer you as soon as possible
[09:42] <crimsun> WolfPython: start with the packaging guide
[09:42] <Bluekuja> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[09:42] <Bluekuja> here it is
[09:42] <WolfPython> ok. thank you.:)
[09:43] <crimsun> WolfPython: the school hasn't been active in some months due to everyone being busy
[09:43] <Bluekuja> it's a very nice guide, it will be easier to start with
[09:43] <siretart> hey crimsun
[09:43] <crimsun> hullo siretart
[09:43] <siretart> crimsun: do you happen to know if darren salt ircs?
[09:43] <crimsun> siretart: I don't know, sorry
[09:44] <siretart> I don't think so, but I'm not sure either
[09:46] <WolfPython> curimsun: Is there a mailing list to subscribe so I will not miss it when it gets active?
[09:47] <crimsun> WolfPython: ubuntu-motu
[09:47] <WolfPython> Thank you
[10:11] <bddebian> Later gang
[10:11] <crimsun> cya bddebian
[10:11] <bddebian> Later crimsun
[10:25] <Kyral_Laptop> hmm
[10:25] <Kyral_Laptop> I'm gonna have to block glibc upgrades on my server
[10:26] <Kyral_Laptop> Xen no like the glibc in the repos
[10:28] <LaserJock> hi \sh
[10:29] <\sh> re
[10:34] <Kyral_Laptop> ...and I also have to recompile gcc...
[10:34] <Kyral_Laptop> Sometimes Sarge is a PAIN
[10:43] <crimsun> um...ok...so is {s,}he going to join?
[10:43] <crimsun> oh good
[10:43] <Kyral_Laptop> huh?
[10:43] <LaserJock> don't know
[10:44] <crimsun> neuRo] : what LaserJock is referring to is that you need deb-src lines uncommented in /etc/apt/sources.list
[10:44] <Kyral_Laptop> Actually you don't...
[10:44] <Kyral_Laptop> Oh can I make a suggestion. For Edgy if we want to include Xen, we are gonna have to recompile Glibc
[10:44] <Kyral_Laptop> or change its compile flags
[10:45] <neuRo] > i am on windows right now, i'm abut to install ubuntu on a new partition and i want to get the source-code so i can play with the os
[10:45] <neuRo] > or read it.. whichever.
[10:45] <Kyral_Laptop> ah then you do
[10:45] <LaserJock> neuRo] : it is much easier once you install it
[10:45] <Kyral_Laptop> an...dude....unless you like ASM lol
[10:45] <Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: I like ASM
[10:45] <neuRo] > asm is great.
[10:46] <Kyral_Laptop> ...you are freaks...
[10:46] <crimsun> neuRo] : the source packages are available at any mirror: http://somemirror/ubuntu/pool/
[10:46] <crimsun> neuRo] : however, you can also retrieve the source using links from http://packages.ubuntu.com/src:package
[10:46] <neuRo] > all i see is a ton of folders with deb files
[10:46] <Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: I learned to code in ASM
[10:46] <neuRo] > not source.
[10:46] <crimsun> neuRo] : by far the easiest way [once you're running Ubuntu]  is to enable the deb-src lines and then ``apt-get source package''
[10:47] <Yagisan> neuRo] : look carefully. that is the source
[10:47] <neuRo] > there's no way to just download the entire OS's source with all of the c/c++ files intact at once
[10:47] <neuRo] > without this whole annoying package/deb/whatever stuff
[10:47] <Kyral_Laptop> The entire OS
[10:47] <Kyral_Laptop> is HOW many packages?!
[10:47] <crimsun> neuRo] : red hat provides that, iirc
[10:47] <neuRo] > i don't care how many packages there are
[10:47] <Kyral_Laptop> .....
[10:47] <Kyral_Laptop> and the mirror is HOW big?!
[10:48] <Kyral_Laptop> On the scale of a couple hundred GB for the source?
[10:48] <neuRo] > i just want everything in a folder like /dev/ubuntusrc or something
[10:48] <crimsun> neuRo] : currently no Ubuntu archive distributes an image that you're asking for
[10:48] <LaserJock> neuRo] : hmm, that would take a lot of time and bandwith
[10:48] <crimsun> we're talking something like 110 GB
[10:48] <Yagisan> neuRo] : you'd need to make it yourself then
[10:48] <Kyral_Laptop> and you do realize that Ubuntu is a Linux Distro, Ubuntu != Linux :P
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> err
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> wait
[10:49] <neuRo] > the source-code for the latest of each of these packages all extracted to simple C/C++ code wouldn't possibly encompass more than 10 GB
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> damn that has two trues
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> neuRo] : they all aren't in C
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> You have every language represented
[10:49] <crimsun> neuRo] : yes, but you asked for the distro+source code, which is precisely what "pool" is.
[10:49] <Yagisan> neuRo] : you'd be so wrong, it's not funny
[10:49] <neuRo] > i just want the C stuff.
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> ...
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> That would take one HELL of a grep
[10:49] <neuRo] > why the hell would you guys go and overcomplicate everything?
[10:50] <Kyral_Laptop> why am I getting suspcious?
[10:50] <crimsun> neuRo] : what you want is orig.tar.gz+diff.gz for every package offered
[10:50] <Yagisan> neuRo] : we don't. you have an unreasonable request
[10:50] <LaserJock> neuRo] : that is very hard to determine, we have thousands of packages from thousands of authors
[10:50] <Kyral_Laptop> You do realize that whatever you do with them you have to abide by their licenses
[10:50] <neuRo] > i want the source to the distro, not to every package you can download for the distro
[10:50] <Kyral_Laptop> ....
[10:50] <Kyral_Laptop> Oh that is a good one
[10:50] <neuRo] > you guys just don't understand.
[10:50] <crimsun> neuRo] : ok, what are you calling "distro?"
[10:50] <LaserJock> neuRo] : the distro is made up of thousands of packages
[10:51] <\sh> it's not BSD
[10:51] <Yagisan> neuRo] : are you high ?
[10:51] <Kyral_Laptop> I am VERY suspcious now
[10:51] <crimsun> neuRo] : are you referring to the live cd that you can install?
[10:51] <Kyral_Laptop> I want to know what he wants them for
[10:51] <Yagisan> theft ?
[10:51] <crimsun> a leaked beta iso?
[10:51] <\sh> emerge ubuntu
[10:51] <Kyral_Laptop> We already give them away via GPL and the various FSF license
[10:52] <Yagisan> sorry, I meant forking without the copyright notices attached
[10:52] <crimsun> neuRo] : if you would clarify what you mean by "distro," that would help.
[10:52] <crimsun> we think of "distro" as the entire "pool" of available packages.
[10:52] <neuRo] > i'd like them because i would very much like to be able to modify anything in the OS i'm using
[10:52] <crimsun> what is "them"?
[10:53] <Kyral_Laptop> The funny part is that you can apt-get install gentoo
[10:53] <\sh> hum?
[10:53] <neuRo] > them = source
[10:53] <LaserJock> Kyral_Laptop: but it is a file manager :-)
[10:53] <crimsun> source to what, all possible packages or just the ones on the live/install cd?
[10:53] <\sh> neuRo] : man debmirror
[10:53] <neuRo] > the ones that come with the install
[10:53] <Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: yeah. that file manager was around a long time before the gentoo distro was
[10:53] <Kyral_Laptop> Someone just give him a link to the GNU Website
[10:53] <Kyral_Laptop> Yagisan: I know :P
[10:53] <Kyral_Laptop> or if he really wants source
[10:53] <\sh> neuRo] : apt-get source debian-installer
[10:53] <crimsun> neuRo] : then you'll want to look at what's seeded and just retrieve the orig.tar.gz+diff.gz for those packages
[10:54] <Kyral_Laptop> You THINK?
[10:54] <Kyral_Laptop> lol
[10:55] <Kyral_Laptop> No MS Cloak :P
[10:55] <LaserJock> neuRo] : the problem is that the code isn't one big pile of source code, each app has it's own source
[10:56] <Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: well, I'd need to get a picture, as looking at LOTR I don't think their fingers could type, but I may be wrong
[10:56] <Kyral_Laptop> ...
[10:56] <Kyral_Laptop> Yagisan: that was horrible
[10:56] <Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: thank you.
[10:56] <neuRo] > i know
[10:57] <neuRo] > i don't want the source for all the apps like the notepad/word processor/etc
[10:57] <Kyral_Laptop> If you want the Kernel source
[10:57] <neuRo] > just the OS itself, the desktop and what runs what you see
[10:57] <Kyral_Laptop> www.kernel.org
[10:57] <Kyral_Laptop> I think he fails to see the non-definition of OS here
[10:57] <\sh> neuRo] : debmirror and put in as section "main"
[10:57] <Yagisan> neuRo] : we sent you a link to all the source of the OS
[10:57] <crimsun> neuRo] : look at the source package ubuntu-meta, and in particular, look inside ubuntu-meta at ubuntu-desktop
[10:57] <Kyral_Laptop> GNU/Linux is the OS
[10:58] <Kyral_Laptop> Ubuntu is a flavor
[10:58] <Yagisan> bbl
[10:59] <\sh> Kyral_Laptop: it's named "Linux" not GNU/Linux.
[10:59] <\sh> the kernel actually
[10:59] <Kyral_Laptop> yes
[10:59] <Kyral_Laptop> and the Kernel + all the other stuff is...?
[10:59] <Kyral_Laptop> GNU/Linux :P
[10:59] <Kyral_Laptop> and lets not have this fight :P
[11:00] <LaserJock> I really couldn't care less what it's called :-)
[11:00] <LaserJock> I just know Ubuntu rocks
[11:01] <LaserJock> neuRo] : the problem is that you are still looking at trying to get the source for hundreds of packages
[11:01] <\sh> Kyral_Laptop: hehe
[11:01] <LaserJock> neuRo] : we don't have an easy mechanism for that. 99.99% of the time people want to get the source for just one or two packages at a time
[11:01] <LaserJock> neuRo] : and that is pretty straight forward
[11:01] <neuRo] > i just want the source for the core of ubuntu, do you understand or not?
[11:02] <Erl[Work] > hello all.  Now that Dapper is release, will some MOTU check my package for kpl?
[11:02] <LaserJock> neuRo] : I'm guessing that would be the kernel, and you can look at kernel.org for that
[11:02] <Bazzi> neuRo] : there is no such thing as "core of ubuntu"
[11:02] <Bazzi> except for the kernel as core.. sudo apt-get install linux-source
[11:03] <LaserJock> Erl[Work] : edgy hasn't opened up yet and we are still sort of in shell shock I think. Give us a few days :-)
[11:03] <Erl[Work] > LaserJock: np ;p I kinda already know what you'll think of it so it'll give me some time to review that.
[11:04] <Erl[Work] > I want to get involved more seriously for Edgy.
[11:04] <Kyral_Laptop> neuRo] : you don't understand the modular nature of the beast
[11:05] <Kyral_Laptop> If there is ANY core it is either ubuntu-minimal or ubuntu-base
[11:05] <neuRo] > LaserJock: pm
[11:07] <Kyral_Laptop> oy this is suspcious
[11:08] <Bazzi> conspiracy of one
[11:08] <Kyral_Laptop> if source is what he's after..give him Gentoo or LFS
[11:08] <Erl[Work] > Is there a channel for the backport team?
[11:10] <LaserJock> possibly
[11:10] <LaserJock> is there much of a team?
[11:10] <Bazzi> damn, #ubuntu is really overcrowded atm
[11:11] <jpatrick> Bazzi: that's a great album
[11:11] <Erl[Work] > LaserJock: there is a mailing list
[11:12] <Erl[Work] > there is a Backporters team... it's small
[11:13] <LaserJock> jdong and mez?
[11:15] <Erl[Work] > I guess.
[11:18] <jpatrick> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-backporters
[11:20] <siretart> Erl[Work] : we have some ppl who worked on backports. unfortunately, there hasn't been much activity from them lately.
[11:21] <LaserJock> I think if the backport policy was better it might get more activity
[11:22] <Erl[Work] > I'd be interested in working on that a bit.
[11:38] <LaserJock> for goodness sakes, I can't find an xfig-like app to save my life :(