[12:07] <dickhall_> hrm.. I have a work social in an hour, I should co-opt into a Dapper release party
[12:07] <robotgeek> there is nothign near me, sigh
[12:08] <Riddell> dickhall_: at activestate?
[12:11] <dickhall_> Riddell: technically, no. My company (Sophos) recently sold activestate and they moved into a different building
[12:11] <dickhall_> but our networks are still linked, so that's what my host shows up as
[12:11] <dickhall_> and I can still receive activestate mail and such
[12:14] <dickhall_> I think I liked it more than my @ea.com email, though at EA it was cool to have Wil Wright show up as a potential autocomplete when I typed 'W' in outlook
[12:30] <kwwii_inkscape> apachelogger: ping?
[12:30] <apachelogger> kwwii_inkscape: pong
[12:30] <marseillai> i would like to know if avahi can set my /etc/fstab if a new folder is share with nfs on the network ? or it can only announce that there is a new share folder ?
[12:31] <kwwii_inkscape> apachelogger: we had to change parts of the sript back because we are scaling the smaller sizes with different options than the big ones
[12:31] <apachelogger> oh
[12:32] <kwwii_inkscape> but your changes make it look much nicer than mine :-)
[12:32] <apachelogger> gonna look into it :)
[12:32] <kwwii_inkscape> 32 and down are scaled with a sharpen filter
[12:32] <kwwii_inkscape> oh, and we changed the filter for scaling on all of them to Sinc
[12:34] <kwwii_inkscape> although I think we will use the  Lanczos filter for the bigger ones and the Sinc for the smaller ones in the end
[12:35] <kwwii_inkscape> in addition we might need to add a way to render the really small ones from different svgs :-(
[12:48] <Flosoft> nite @ all
[12:53] <halcyonCorsair> hi, i was wondering if someone could help me build knetworkmanager on amd53
[12:53] <halcyonCorsair> err, amd64
[12:54] <kwwii_inkscape> where did svn go?
[12:54] <kwwii_inkscape> why can't I install svn anymore? ie no package called svn?
[12:56] <apachelogger> kwwii_inkscape: was never called svn I think
[12:56] <apachelogger> apt-get install subversion
[12:56] <kwwii_inkscape> aha.
[12:56] <kwwii_inkscape> kdesvn works, but there is no "svn 
[12:56] <kwwii_inkscape> " command
[12:57] <pygi> apachelogger, yup, it was never called svn
[12:58] <kwwii_inkscape> hehe
[12:58] <kwwii_inkscape> that shows you what happens when you rely on a gui to install packages
[12:58] <pygi> kwwii_inkscape, hehe :)
[12:58] <apachelogger> hm
[12:58] <apachelogger> I think adept shows up subversion when searching for svn :P
[12:58] <kwwii_inkscape> so how in the hell did kdesvn do it without installing subversion?
[12:59] <apachelogger> kwwii_inkscape: probably only needs the library 
[12:59] <apachelogger> in earlier versions kdesvn was just a gui wrapper for svn - but now it's a full featured gui client for libsvn I think
[12:59] <kwwii_inkscape> ahaa
[12:59] <kwwii_inkscape> i c
[01:00] <kwwii_inkscape> that explains why it worked now and before it always crashed on me
[01:12] <kwwii_inkscape> ok, going to sleep
[01:12] <kwwii_inkscape> night all
[01:28] <bddebian> Hello
[10:18] <Tonio_> http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/compiz/kde/window-decorator/
[10:18] <Tonio_> sounds like we'll not get compiz running on kde before kde4....
[10:59] <Lure> Tonio_: who needs compiz - I would much rather get some X polish than XGl and similar...
[11:01] <Tonio_> Lure: compiz can work with aiglx or anything
[11:01] <Tonio_> no need of xgl for this
[11:01] <Tonio_> xgl only provides opengl support
[11:01] <Tonio_> what to use with it ? compiz ;)
[11:01] <Lure> Tonio_: what I am saying is we need more improvements in X in direction of config/autodetect/multihead support
[11:02] <Lure> then fancy 3d/comiz stuff ;-)
[11:02] <Tonio_> Lure: don't forget gnome supports it, vista will be d3d based, osx supports opengl....
[11:02] <Tonio_> only kde doesn't at the moment give the possibility of 3D effects on the desktop
[11:03] <Lure> Tonio_: I agree, but until my notebook will boot with blank screen it does not help me... :-(
[11:03] <Tonio_> I know
[11:03] <Tonio_> ;)
[11:42] <Hobbsee> hi room
[11:42] <Hobbsee> hi people in the room
[11:45] <Riddell> eh oh
[11:52] <Hobbsee> oh hi Riddell!
[11:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: hey !! did you see the opendocument foundation announcement ?
[11:55] <Riddell> nope
[11:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: they will soon release an msoffice plugin to fully support opendocument in it ;)
[11:56] <Tonio_> it is currently tested in the massachussets
[11:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: that could help for a koffice integration in kubuntu !
[11:58] <Riddell> how?
[11:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20060504015438308
[11:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: since it would be easy to explain to an ms office user how to convert to od format without installing a new office suite....
[12:00] <Tonio_> as long as there is an easy way to help people to use a standard, there will be less issues in implementing koffice don't you think ?
[12:00] <Tonio_> if you talk about native support in kubuntu, don't forget that we don't support wmv, wma, mp3 etc...
[12:00] <Tonio_> so the user that want doc support could install OOo the same way he instals libxine-extracodecs for example...
[12:01] <Tonio_> btw this is my opinion
[12:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: what do you think about this ?
[12:03] <Riddell> the lack of mp3 and wmv is because we can't ship support, not because we happen to think one solution is technically better
[12:03] <Tonio_> indeed
[12:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: so if I understand correctly, we will not see koffice in kubuntu soon... :(
[12:09] <marseillai_> Riddell: isn't it possible to propose during installation to enable multiverse/restricted then if user say yes then propose to install libxine and restricted-formats ?
[12:09] <Lure> Tonio_: how do you get @ubuntu.com mail account as member?
[12:10] <Lure> marseillai_: I think the problem is that you would need to pus some nasty legal disclaimers there...
[12:11] <Riddell> Tonio_: it has less features and less stability than openoffice
[12:12] <Riddell> marseillai_: restricted is in there
[12:12] <Riddell> you could question why libxine-extracodecs isn't in restricted, but that's up to Mark
[12:12] <Lure> Riddell: I would agree - I use both interchangabily and they both have they +/-
[12:12] <Lure> s/they/their/
[12:12] <Hobbsee> Lure: it seems to get automatically set up, and points to your default mail in launchpad
[12:13] <Lure> it is probably more more safe choise to stay with OOo
[12:13] <Lure> Hobbsee: really? so it is just mail forwarder? will try it...
[12:13] <Hobbsee> Lure: you can send from it
[12:14] <Hobbsee> come to think of it, i probably could.
[12:17] <Lure> Hobbsee: yes, it works...
[12:17] <Lure> thanks
[12:17] <Hobbsee> Lure: yay :)
[12:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: I must say I don't agree concerning stability.... OOo has always crashed quite often here (and more than koffice concerning my experience)
[12:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: concerning functionnalities.... I agree, but at least koffice integrates correctly with kde ;)
[12:31] <Riddell> I already have complaints from Mark and others that we don't ship with firefox
[12:31] <hunger> I was wondering why OOo got so "strange" after a upgrade, only to discover 3 days later that I had been using kword all the time;-)
[12:33] <Riddell> yo jpatrick 
[12:33] <hunger> Hobbsee: You are free to install it:-)
[12:34] <Hobbsee> :P oh i do
[12:34] <Hobbsee> hey jpatrick 
[12:34] <jpatrick> hi Riddell, Hobbsee
[12:34] <hunger> Hobbsee: And it is not. You must be a deluded gtk-junkie;-)
[12:34] <Hobbsee> hunger: hehe
[12:35] <hunger> Hobbsee: I admit that I have FF installed, too... but then I have ubuntu-desktop installed on kubuntu to be able to crosscheck what the gnome crowd is doing.
[12:35] <jpatrick> when can we start packaging again?
[12:36] <Hobbsee> hehe....sure sure..
[12:36] <Riddell> jpatrick: now!  make us a package of oxygen icons
[12:36] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:37] <hunger> The kubuntu part of dapper is really cool by the way. Great work! Thanks Riddell and thanks to all the other devs here.
[12:37] <jpatrick> if I could get them somewher
[12:37] <Riddell> jpatrick: kde svn trunk/playground/artwork
[12:38] <hunger> Are those done yet?
[12:38] <Riddell> build script is in Ken directory
[12:38] <Riddell> build-dep on inkscape
[12:40] <hunger> How about adding some more bonjour configs for the next version? (like fish and sftp)
[12:40] <Riddell> hunger: we need an option to have zeroconf easy to turn on
[12:41] <hunger> Riddell: It is turned on, it is just missing the necessary config files for that to work:-(
[12:41] <Riddell> we don't have avahi-daemon on the CD
[12:41] <Riddell> hunger: add this to KubuntuFutureIdeas
[12:42] <Riddell> we'll be needing an avahi spec
[12:42] <hunger> Riddell: Yes, the daemon is missing, but the "clientside" is there, working and emensly usefull.
[12:43] <Riddell> well it's only useful if the other machines on the network have avahi turned on :)
[12:43] <hunger> Riddell: Please consider adding the config files of lp #33034.
[12:44] <hunger> Riddell: There are, at least on those networks I hang out frequently. The upside of working with mac junkies:-)
[12:44] <Lathiat> .. avahi doesnt work evenin client without the daemon
[12:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: complains we don't use firefox ?? !
[12:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's a chance ;)
[12:45] <jpatrick> Riddell: I did "svn co svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen/" I don't have a Ken dir tho...
[12:45] <hunger> Lathiat: avahi advertizes services. The client(s) work with those advertisements. Without avahi you can not publish your own stuff, but you can very well use those provided by others.
[12:46] <Lathiat> hunger: no, you can't
[12:46] <Lathiat> without the daemon neither browsing nor publishing operates
[12:46] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: it's there...might be in the parent directory...search a bit :P
[12:46] <Lathiat> not with avahi (it may well use some other library, e.g. howl)
[12:46] <jpatrick> I did
[12:46] <Hobbsee> mmm okay
[12:46] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: that was irony of course ;) kubuntu shiped with firefox would go against the kubuntu purpose....
[12:47] <jpatrick> but it's there, but not here
[12:47] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: hehe true
[12:47] <Tonio_> but I wouldn't see any problem using gecko in konqueror it the port had been finished...
[12:47] <Riddell> jpatrick: it's there http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen/
[12:47] <Tonio_> but nobody finished it
[12:47] <jpatrick> oh I do have it...
[12:48] <Riddell> hunger: Lathiat does know his stuff with avahi :)
[12:48] <Lathiat> i think the no port policy shouldnt apply to avahi, because dns resolvers open a dns port too.. :)
[12:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: would be nice to have a systemsettings module to control avahi ;)
[12:48] <hunger> Lathiat: Well, then I had some misunderstandings on how that stuff works.
[12:49] <Lathiat> nps :)
[12:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: the trouble is it would be all of one tickbox
[12:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: ah, the perfect learning opportunity :)
[12:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: tickbox ?
[12:49] <Riddell> "checkbox"
[12:49] <Lathiat> perhaps you could put avahi in the nexisting network stuff
[12:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes ;) I already bought a book, but I have to start....
[12:49] <hunger> Ahhhh... kde 3.5.3 stops kmix from popping up after each startup!
[12:50] <Lathiat> haha
[12:50] <Tonio_> Lathiat: in knetworkconf ?
[12:50] <Lathiat> Tonio_: i guess?
[12:50] <hunger> and my display suddenly became brighter, too. How did that happen?
[12:50] <Lathiat> (im not familiar with what part that is)
[12:50] <jpatrick> Riddell: ok, "bash generate_oxg_icons.sh" does nothing apart from output a  lot of text
[12:51] <Riddell> uh huh, any paticular text?
[12:51] <jpatrick> ls: actions/*.svg: No such file or directory
[12:52] <Riddell> you need to run it from Oxygen/theme
[12:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: just done that and it works
[12:54] <Tonio_> jpatrick: let's work together on the package maybe ?
[12:54] <jpatrick> Tonio_: It's working
[12:54] <Tonio_> jpatrick: cool :
[12:54] <Tonio_> ;)
[12:55] <jpatrick> just need inkscape
[12:55] <jpatrick> Tonio_: when shall we work on gnash?
[12:55] <Tonio_> jpatrick: when stable version is out maybe ^^
[12:56] <jpatrick> :)
[12:56] <Tonio_> but that's on my plans for edgy
[12:56] <Tonio_> it should be there before edgy is out
[12:56] <Riddell> gnash has 101 gnome dependencies :(
[12:56] <pygi> Riddell, wth? 101? :-/
[12:57] <Riddell> well, almost that many
[12:57] <jpatrick> and i thought Kerry was bad
[12:57] <pygi> Riddell, do you need me for any development stuff for edgy except the KDE version of BZR UI?
[12:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: damn....
[12:59] <Riddell> pygi: whatever you want of course.  a bzr UI would be cool, although I don't know what form that would take
[12:59] <Hobbsee> hunger: that's probably from your session settings
[01:00] <pygi> Riddell, yup, bzr UI will be there and ready for edgy
[01:00] <pygi> what do you mean by "form"?
[01:01] <jpatrick> Riddell: can I use the script geneterated tarball for the pack?
[01:01] <pygi> Riddell, the reason why I am asking you is that I don't want to develop something, and then we don't need it :)
[01:01] <Riddell> yuriy: ping
[01:02] <Riddell> jpatrick: I'd use the script as the build for the package
[01:02] <Riddell> pygi: what features would the bzr UI have?
[01:02] <Riddell> pygi: and have you looked at keybuk's gnome one?
[01:03] <Riddell> yuriy: did you write a spec?
[01:03] <pygi> Riddell, init, branch, add, remove, mv, ignore, diff, merge, commit, uncommit, log, check, push, pull, export, conflicts, info, mkdir, nick, revno, version, whoami
[01:03] <pygi> for start ... we'll have cherrypicking patches, and such things also
[01:03] <Flosoft> hey
[01:03] <pygi> Riddell, if you mean bzrk, we'll have a new UI
[01:06] <pygi> Riddell, basicly this, but KDE:
[01:06] <pygi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrUI
[01:08] <Flosoft> wow .. the average of transfer rate for the last 24 hours: 89,3Mbyte/s
[01:09] <kmon> hi
[01:10] <Riddell> nice
[01:10] <kmon> Riddell: The ooo patch didn't work
[01:10] <Riddell> kmon: hmm, ok, thanks
[01:11] <MidMark> hi to all!
[01:11] <MidMark> I have make this new wiki page, can be interesting: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDapperWhatStillNeedsAConsole
[01:12] <kmon> and as far as the conversation of ooo & firefox, I'll give my 2. The problem here is the "vision" kubuntu has. Is kubuntu a desktop operating system with kde as a base or is kubuntu the best Desktop operating system the kde world offers?
[01:13] <pygi> Riddell, back :)
[01:13] <kmon> if it is the latter, then kubuntu should keep konqui as the webbrowser & ship with koffice
[01:13] <jpatrick> Riddell: this might not work, running generate_oxy_theme.sh makes a tarball, which we'll have to unpack and cp a debian dir to during build process
[01:14] <Hobbsee> kmon: in one way it doesnt matter - seeing as we have all of gnome at our disposal in the same repos too - but i see your point
[01:15] <Riddell> jpatrick: ignore the tar?  it also makes the .pngs ready for use.  or you could just use the tar as the .orig
[01:15] <Riddell> hmm no, the tar doesn't have the .svg files in it
[01:15] <kmon> Hobbsee: yes, it's really a social thing, since the average joe coming to kubuntu doesn't know what's kde/gnome and really just want an OS that works
[01:15] <MidMark> Riddell: I need only an information-> the kubuntu cd contains italian language? I have only the dvd...
[01:15] <jpatrick> I'll see what I can do
[01:16] <Riddell> MidMark: which CD?
[01:16] <Hobbsee> kmon: true
[01:16] <MidMark> Riddell: kubuntu alternate/desktop cd (dapper)
[01:16] <kmon> Hobbsee: but then again, that average joe will probably want flash, mp3 & other things out of the box
[01:16] <Riddell> architecture?
[01:16] <Tonio_> MidMark: on adept's top priorities I think ability to set an http proxy would go before everything...
[01:16] <Hobbsee> MidMark: kdesu kate.  not sudo kate.
[01:17] <kmon> but that's another thing
[01:17] <MidMark> Tonio_: ok, is there a bug for that?
[01:17] <MidMark> Hobbsee: why?
[01:17] <Tonio_> MidMark: I already did a kde bug and told mornfall about this, but he didn't seems interested at the moment :(
[01:18] <MidMark> Hobbsee: ok
[01:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: afaik oxygen isn't supposed to be complete is it ?
[01:18] <MidMark> Tonio_: what a pitty :(
[01:18] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: not yet, no
[01:18] <Hobbsee> but some are there, and really pretty :)
[01:18] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: okay, cause I was seeing a few missing stuff testing it
[01:18] <MidMark> Riddell: all, I want to know where ita is present or not... all type of cds
[01:20] <Riddell> MidMark: see the seeds http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/kubuntu-dapper/
[01:20] <Riddell> ship is the alternate CD, live is the desktop CD
[01:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm looking at the debian/control provided with cvs gnash repo and I don't see gnome dependancies.... except mozilla-dev maybe
[01:22] <Tonio_> that probably just to build the mozilla plugin
[01:22] <Riddell> Tonio_: URL?
[01:22] <kmon> I was thinking the other day about a nice feature kubuntu in amd64 could have. If multiarch is not ready for edgy, kubuntu could provide a script/python app to install a couple of 32bit apps in a separate directory (webbrowser & media player mainly) and have easy access to flash & other things that don't work in amd64
[01:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: export CVS_RSH="ssh" && cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sv.gnu.org:/sources/gnash co gnash
[01:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: you will get a "packaging" folder containing debian
[01:23] <mornfall> Tonio_: patches, patches...
[01:24] <mornfall> Tonio_: proxy setup is not interesting for me since i never use it :p
[01:24] <Tonio_> mornfall: that wasn't a critisize !!!! you did so much for dapper version !
[01:24] <Tonio_> mornfall: just plz keep that upo in the head for some day ;)
[01:25] <Tonio_> mornfall: the problem is that setting apt for prooxy usage is quite complicated
[01:25] <Tonio_> mornfall: don't min, that didn't made me go back to synaptic ;)
[01:25] <mornfall> Tonio_: that's fine and i didn't take offence or anything :)
[01:26] <mornfall> Tonio_: just being realistic
[01:26] <mornfall> Tonio_: in that it's not going to happen by itself and it's very low priority for me
[01:26] <Tonio_> mornfall: sure :)
[01:26] <mornfall> Tonio_: even if you are a nice guy and all, but i'm sooo lazy and usually loaded enough to keep me away from things like this
[01:27] <Tonio_> mornfall: the big problem for me is that I think it should be possible to set a global proxy settings for all linux environnment
[01:27] <Tonio_> but that's nor a standard in lsb....
[01:27] <Riddell> is that part of portland?
[01:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: don't now, but should ;)
[01:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: we could eventually discuss that in paris with kde guys
[01:28] <Tonio_> actually every application is using it's own internal process for proxy
[01:29] <Tonio_> except kde apps that sometimes use konqueror settings on that point
[01:29] <mornfall> noone really uses http proxying because it's just too daft :p
[01:29] <mornfall> do they?
[01:29] <mornfall> i could imagine corporations would tend to do that
[01:29] <Tonio_> mornfall: in companies, everyone uses a proxy
[01:29] <Tonio_> nat is simply incompatible with companies needs
[01:29] <Lure> Tonio_: really? we use NAT...
[01:29] <Hobbsee> mornfall: i'm seeing trouble with the adept not opening again...
[01:29] <Hobbsee> no, wait, here it is.
[01:30] <Tonio_> Lure: nat only gives a very low level of control, no caching etc....
[01:30] <mornfall> companies need to learn to use transparent proxying
[01:30] <Lure> Tonio_: true, but who needs caching this days... ;-)
[01:30] <Tonio_> mornfall: well companies don't want to since they don't want to open all network and web, and I can understand this ;)
[01:30] <Tonio_> do they want people to use emule, P2P, porn websites etc??? no ;)
[01:31] <mornfall> Tonio_: transparent proxy can do everything a non-transparent one can
[01:31] <Tonio_> Lure: 40 000 computers companies need caching ;)
[01:31] <mornfall> Tonio_: you just need to forward the packets the right way
[01:31] <jpatrick> Riddell: oh I see, working on it now
[01:31] <Tonio_> mornfall: are you talking about socks5 proxies ?
[01:31] <mornfall> Tonio_: nono
[01:32] <mornfall> Tonio_: about gateway doing smart things with packets
[01:32] <Tonio_> mornfall: exemples of what is a transparent proxy ?
[01:32] <mornfall> like looking inside them and if they are http passing to a proxy instead of forwarding
[01:32] <Tonio_> mornfall: well, nat + advanced firewalls like chekpoint can do the job, but that's a pain to manage ;)
[01:33] <Tonio_> and uses hudge ressources to analyse tcp/ip packets......
[01:33] <mornfall> it's less pain to manage than going around 40k computers and setting up proxy on each ;-)
[01:34] <Tonio_> mornfall: well in a windows environnement, you don't have to go over the 40 000 computers ;)
[01:34] <Tonio_> mornfall: ever eared about what gpo are ?
[01:34] <mornfall> and if you do managed rollout (like everyone does), you can easily set up the proxy for apt centrally
[01:34] <Tonio_> you can reconfigure all your computers in a centralized way with a very few clicks :)
[01:34] <mornfall> your argument is MOOT
[01:34] <Tonio_> mornfall: I'm just saying that's possible ;)
[01:35] <mornfall> no, you say that adept needs proxy setup gui to be useful inside companies
[01:35] <Tonio_> yup
[01:35] <mornfall> and it turns out noone is using gui click-click on every computer inside a company anyway
[01:35] <Tonio_> mornfall: no, I think adept should frontend apt to set proxy in it :)
[01:35] <mornfall> so it's for the marginal cases of people abusing company network to update their laptops
[01:36] <Tonio_> hum.... that makes sense indeed
[01:36] <mornfall> in which case they should know what they are doing anyway :p
[01:36] <Tonio_> but concerning my usage, when I go in several companies with my laptop, it is quite a pain to set the proxy manually every morning, and remove it by night at home....
[01:36] <Tonio_> I would like to click for this ;)
[01:36] <kmon> anyone: how do I unsinstall build-deps?
[01:37] <mornfall> Tonio_: it's not *that* hard to implement :P
[01:37] <Tonio_> mornfall: yes, but I can't learn C++ to do it myself ^_^
[01:37] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: sure you can :P
[01:37] <Tonio_> if I could have done it, I would already have done it ;)
[01:37] <mornfall> that's weak
[01:38] <mornfall> what Hobbsee says
[01:38] <mornfall> if it's important enough, you will do it
[01:38] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I don't want to learn coding since I already have so much to learn on the sysadmin part....
[01:38] <mornfall> if it's not, it's not :-)
[01:38] <mornfall> if it's not important enough for you to do it, it's not important enough for me to do it either :-)
[01:38] <mornfall> now that's a good argument
[01:38] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: ah okay.  i thought i was the only non-coder on the kcc...
[01:38] <Hobbsee> heh @ mornfall 
[01:39] <mornfall> i should use it to close annoying wishlist items
[01:39] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: well, if you want to do everything, you will do everything badly ;)
[01:39] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: well...true
[01:39] <mornfall> you could still learn being a really good sysadmin, earn loads of money and pay me to do it for you :] 
[01:40] <Tonio_> mornfall: hehe, good point ;)
[01:40] <Hobbsee> hehe @ mornfall 
[01:40] <Lure> mornfall: that is even better one...;-)
[01:40] <kmon> Riddell: how do I unisnstall build-deps of a package?
[01:41] <kmon> I would like to Undo yesterday ooo try
[01:41] <mornfall> i sort of hate planet
[01:42] <Hobbsee> mornfall: why so?   what's it done now?
[01:42] <Hobbsee> kmon: apart from removing them one by one, manually?  i dont know
[01:42] <kmon> where's apt log?
[01:42] <mornfall> Hobbsee: it shows my posts twice :p
[01:42] <Hobbsee> kmon: besides, why are you not building in a pbuilder, if you want to avoid a lot of dev stuff on your computer
[01:42] <kmon> I only see aptitude's
[01:42] <mornfall> ohwell
[01:42] <Hobbsee> mornfall: ah, great
[01:43] <kmon> Hobbsee: because I'm really new to all this
[01:43] <kmon> :)
[01:43] <kmon> hehe
[01:43] <Hobbsee> kmon: see your private link from ubotu
[01:43] <kmon> thanks
[01:44] <kmon> and the apt log?
[01:44] <kmon> can't find it in /var/log
[01:45] <jpatrick>  /var/log/dpg
[01:45] <jpatrick> dpkg
[01:46] <kmon> thanks jpatrick
[01:52] <jpatrick> imbrandon_: maybe you should get an ubuntu cloak
[01:55] <imbrandon_> jpatrick: yes i'm just waiting on seveas or lilo to do it
[01:56] <Hobbsee> imbrandon_: poke seveas to do it, when you see him around
[01:56] <imbrandon_> seveas said a few weeks ago that he was going to take care of it but nothing yet, he was probbly busy with dapper release
[01:56] <imbrandon_> yea i will again , was just giving him some breathing room ;)
[01:56] <Hobbsee> :)
[01:56] <imbrandon_> btw heya Hobbsee jpatrick 
[01:57] <jpatrick> hey
[02:05] <imbrandon_> heh , bootleg what ?
[02:05] <jpatrick> [[Bootleg] ] 
[02:05] <imbrandon_> oh
[02:05] <imbrandon_> ;)
[02:06] <MidMark> Tonio_: system services is part of kde-guidance?
[02:06] <imbrandon_> yea i threw apt-mirror up on REVU yesterday if anyone wants to give it a look ;) * not like theres not plenty of time for edgy hehe *
[02:07] <Tonio_> MidMark: yup, developped by _Sime
[02:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: looks like you're right.... libgtk2.0-dev is now required as a build dep...
[02:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: debian folder is outdated...
[02:12] <Riddell> Tonio_: is cairo needed?
[02:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: I didn't finished the build-dep new list, but I will tell you
[02:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: ./macros/cairo.m4 looks like yes but I don't know if that's an option...
[02:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: I thought gnash was opengl based...
[02:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: looks like it can be compiled with cairo, but that's an option.... I have to perform the full packaging to be sure
[02:21] <\sh> moins
[02:21] <Hobbsee> hey \sh :)
[02:23] <\sh> I'm tired :(
[02:23] <Tonio_> hey \sh ;)
[02:23] <\sh> Riddell: I updated to 3.5.3 and suddenly the kdm login input fields are missing a frame...
[02:24] <Tonio_> \sh: confirmed
[02:25] <Riddell> \sh: I saw that too
[02:26] <Riddell> I wonder if you have to explicity turn them on now
[02:28] <\sh> Riddell: another thing in kubiquity ;) I added 4 partitions and when you are at the stage where you define the mountpoints, it's going out of the frame
[02:29] <\sh> I wonder if we can change the UI to kdevdesigner widgets and find a better way for this UI
[02:29] <jpatrick> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/755371
[02:29] <jpatrick> that's just annoying
[02:31] <Riddell> \sh: got a screenshot?
[02:32] <\sh> Riddell: I provide one on tuesday when I install the next t43
[02:32] <Riddell> jpatrick: put generate_oxy_theme.sh in theme/
[02:33] <Riddell> cd theme/ && ./generate_oxy_theme.sh
[02:33] <jpatrick> Riddell: it just won't run it
[02:33] <MidMark> \sh: also for me, but the gui add the fifth elemnt at the point you set the mount point for the forth
[02:33] <MidMark> \sh: of course it is not so user friendly
[02:34] <Riddell> jpatrick: using cd in a makefile doesn't work, you need to have it on the same line as the command
[02:34] <Riddell> cd theme/ && ./generate_oxy_theme.sh
[02:34] <\sh> MidMark: well, it's a problem with the frame widget around this...
[02:34] <MidMark> \sh: out of frame you mean out of the window? Ah no it is another problem peraphs
[02:34] <\sh> no...
[02:34] <\sh> out of a frame...
[02:34] <MidMark> \sh: that means?
[02:36] <\sh__> grmpf
[02:36] <\sh> MidMark: there is a frame widget around the list of partitions and mountpoints
[02:36] <\sh> MidMark: this frame is not resized properly
[02:37] <MidMark> \sh: I had no problems with 5 partitions, probably the resolution can be the trick? Mine was 1024x768
[02:37] <\sh> MidMark: 1400xsomething 
[02:38] <MidMark> something less or more than 768? I think more...
[02:38] <\sh> MidMark: ati graphicscard in an ibm t43
[02:38] <\sh> MidMark: window was maximized
[02:38] <MidMark> that is strange, I have also a screenshot...
[02:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: confirmed, it is possible (according to the readme) to build gnash without gtk/cairo if we use opengl
[02:44] <MidMark> \sh: http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot224ml.png
[02:45] <\sh> MidMark: and the frame wasn't resized during my install
[02:45] <Riddell> Tonio_: interesting
[02:45] <\sh> but it could also be a glitch with native xorg ati drivers
[02:46] <MidMark> \sh: understood now, I used nv native xorg
[02:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: well, the readme claims this, but I have a few issues disabling the gtk features ;) maybe the readme is outdated too :(
[02:46] <Tonio_> \sh: agree yes..
[02:47] <\sh> IMHO a better ui approach would be to have a klistview with listviewitems 
[02:47] <\sh> and one cell shows the partition, the other cell shows a dropdown with the mountpoints, needs to be editable, and the next cell shows a checkbox for "format"
[02:48] <\sh> the list is scrollable, and we don't have problems with resizing frames anymore
[02:49] <MidMark> \sh: yep, also adding rows can be more easy, just adding an "add" and "remove" buttons for ex
[02:51] <MidMark> guys I have left 3 problems: 1) why my network at boot doesn't ask for an ip from the router's dhcp? I need to disable and enable in order to have one...
[02:51] <\sh> MidMark: networkmanager installed?
[02:52] <MidMark> \sh: if not by default then not... I'll see
[02:53] <\sh> MidMark: if not, it should ask by default...or the nic is not initialized when dhcp is starting.....
[02:53] <MidMark> \sh: not installed, I have to install it in order to have a simply dhcp?
[02:54] <\sh> MidMark: no...check /etc/network/interfaces..
[02:54] <\sh> MidMark: auth eth0 and iface eth0 inet dhcp should be there somehow
[02:54] <\sh> auto eth0 sorry not auth
[02:55] <\sh> MidMark: and it's working normally, checked it yesterday during my installs
[03:02] <marco_> \sh: I'm Midmark, nope with settings you said ip is not released for me
[03:03] <Hobbsee> marco_: why dont you ghost midmark?
[03:03] <marco_> Hobbsee: waiting for timeout
[03:03] <Hobbsee> marco_: if it's registered, you can ghost it
[03:03] <Hobbsee> freenode doesnt often time out nicks :(
[03:03] <marco_> it's not registered
[03:04] <Hobbsee> ah
[03:04] <\sh> marco_: hmm...can you check the syslog etc. to see if he tries to do a dhcprequest?
[03:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: you'll love this ;) there is several gui configurable, gtk, sdl or kde ;)
[03:05] <Tonio_> hehe
[03:05] <Tonio_> but the documentation is almost incomplete......
[03:05] <marco_> \sh: 03/06/2006 15:00:52	localhost	dhclient	DHCPREQUEST on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67
[03:06] <marco_> \sh: yes it does, but no ip, I have to disable and enable via gui, then I have an ip
[03:07] <\sh> marco_: hmmm..try it from the commandline with sudo dhclient3 eth0
[03:07] <\sh> but it should work, or your dhcp is not fast enough to answer the request :)
[03:07] <marco_> now I have an ip bacause i have disable/enabled eth0... I have to reboot?
[03:08] <marco_> \sh: works with breezy before... timeout is changed?
[03:11] <\sh> marco_: i thought so
[03:11] <marco_> \sh: there is in order: dhcprelease on eth0, dhcpack from 192.168.1.1, dhcpdiscover on eth0 to 255.255.255.255, a dhcpoffer from 192.168.1.1 and a dhcprequest on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 that is strange
[03:13] <marco_> \sh: see this http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/755457 there is a "network unreachable"
[03:14] <\sh> marco_: strange network ;)
[03:15] <marco_> anyway here dhcp doesn't work, only static ips
[03:15] <marco_> of course I cannot enabled/disabled all the times I boot
[03:16] <\sh> marco_: i think it's a timeout problem or something which has to do with initialization of the card...
[03:16] <MidMark> \sh: should I bug report?
[03:16] <\sh> MidMark: pls file a bug with this pastebin output and what router you have, and the NIC hardware etc.
[03:16] <MidMark> \sh: ok :)
[03:18] <MidMark> 2) during installation hw-detect I think fails to recognize the native resolution of my lcd, I have changed the monitor from generic monitor and putted 1280x1024, all is ok except this change is only for my user, when I back to the login screen is 1024x768 that is frustrating
[03:22] <imbrandon_> did you change the default in xorg.conf or just in the kde control pannel
[03:22] <imbrandon_> kdm uses whats in xorg
[03:22] <imbrandon_> correct ?
[03:24] <MidMark> imbrandon_: I have changed in control panel with admin password, yes changed also xorg.conf but the login is still in 1024x768 I think
[03:28] <MidMark> yes, kdm take which resolution? xorg.conf?
[03:28] <\sh> laters
[03:42] <kmon> jpatrick: how are you doing with the oxygen package? :)
[03:43] <jpatrick> kmon: it takes ages to build
[03:43] <kmon> are those icons in svg or pixmaps? (or both)
[03:44] <jpatrick> and keeps saying: inkscape:7366): Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_display_list_devices: assertion `GDK_IS_DISPLAY (display)' failed
[03:44] <jpatrick> SVG
[03:44] <kmon> how does kde3 handle svg icons? AFAIk wallpapers aren't well supported
[03:44] <kmon> or at least that's my experience
[03:44] <apokryphos> wallpaper is very well supported
[03:45] <apokryphos> but svg for iconsets isn't very well supported yet
[03:45] <Riddell> KDE uses libart for both SVG wallpapers and icon sets
[03:45] <Riddell> it's not great
[03:45] <kmon> I've tried to change a kdm theme with svg and it didn't look correctly
[03:45] <apokryphos> wasn't it you that added svg support for wallpapers to kde? ;-)
[03:46] <Riddell> yes
[03:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: fyi, gnash give the possibility to build a kpart (klash), sounds very very cool ;)
[03:46] <apokryphos> good stuff 8)
[03:46] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'll believe it when I see it :)
[03:47] <jpatrick> Tonio_: that is old
[03:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm reading the complete doc actually ;) but opengl + dsl + klash would make it independant from gtk or even mozilla plugin ;)
[03:47] <Tonio_> jpatrick: yes but it wasn't working before, when the doc actually says it works ;)
[03:47] <jpatrick> cool
[03:48] <bddebian> Hello
[03:49] <jpatrick> hi bddebian
[03:49] <kmon> Hobbsee: I've added some package recommendations to your "anything else?" in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
[03:49] <bddebian> Hello jpatrick
[03:49] <Hobbsee> kmon: cool :)  i just saw the email notification for it
[03:50] <kmon> basically I think it would be cool to have updated packages or most used apps
[03:50] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
[03:50] <kmon> multimedia
[03:50] <Hobbsee> heya bddebian 
[03:50] <kmon> office
[03:50] <kmon> and kde
[03:51] <kmon> as long as they work in amd64 ;) (which is my arch and it's giving problems lately)
[03:51] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:52] <kubuntutaotao> my desktop cd is not installed,why
[03:52] <Riddell> kubuntutaotao: ?
[03:55] <jpatrick> this thing takes ages to build
[03:55] <freeflying|away> Riddell: kubuntutaotao can not use livecd
[03:56] <freeflying|away> Riddell: seems something not good with ati's driver
[03:56] <kubuntutaotao> Ridde11:the drivers of ati is not fit my ATI video card,in installing,black screen
[03:56] <jpatrick> i see freeflying|away's psyhic
[03:57] <kubuntutaotao> Ridde11:i did not see anything,then i could not install system
[03:58] <kubuntutaotao> Riddell, "kubuntu-6.06-desktop-i386.iso" is livecd?
[03:58] <apokryphos> kubuntutaotao: desktop CD, which is a Live CD with an installer
[04:00] <Riddell> try the alternate CD then and fiddle with your xorg.conf later
[04:01] <kubuntutaotao> apokryphos, faint...
[04:01] <freeflying|away> kubuntutaotao: are you ok?
[04:01] <apokryphos> kubuntutaotao: #kubuntu is more suited for support, too :)
[04:01] <kubuntutaotao> Riddell, ok.i try it out
[04:03] <kubuntutaotao> freeflying|away, ok.i try it agian.but alternate,maybe installed ever.
[04:03] <kubuntutaotao> apokryphos, :) thx.i try "alternate" agian
[04:21] <kmon> Riddell: I've started filing bugs about your unofficial packages in here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuUnofficialPackages I don't know if you're aware
[04:22] <kmon> Hobbsee: wrong channel ;)
[04:23] <Hobbsee> yes, but it's more okay to be crazy and offtopic in here than it is in u-devel
[04:23] <kmon> Hobbsee: isn't that a conversation in u-devel?
[04:23] <kmon> ohh
[04:23] <kmon> ok
[04:23] <Hobbsee> it was, yeah :P
[04:23] <kmon> you were just pointing it out for k-devel
[04:23] <kmon> ok
[04:23] <kmon> hehe
[04:24] <Hobbsee> yes.  mind you, that does exclude some painful users.
[04:24] <kmon> ?
[04:24] <Hobbsee> who if they come to the next meeting and disrupt yet again....well...
[04:24] <jpatrick> these icons are still building after one hour
[04:24] <imbrandon_> jez jpatrick 
[04:25] <Hobbsee> ouch jpatrick!
[04:25] <kmon> english is not my native language...
[04:25] <Hobbsee> kmon: there are various annoying users - one in particular...who a lot of people would like to mute.  he might get thrown off a cliff :P
[04:25] <imbrandon_> kmon: dont feel bad , it is mine and i have a hard time with it at times ;)
[04:25] <jpatrick> kmon: y castellano no es la mia :P
[04:26] <kmon> Hobbsee: I'm sorry to hear that
[04:26] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: lol
[04:26] <Riddell> kmon: I am now
[04:27] <kmon> imbrandon_: I'm supposed to speak english fluently... or at least 4 years ago... my university studies have left it as a low priority
[04:27] <imbrandon_> ;)
[04:27] <kmon> jpatrick: :P
[04:27] <kmon> Riddell: great
[04:28] <jpatrick> Riddell: do you know how I could remove these errors? They're slowing down the build process http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/755571
[04:29] <Hobbsee> kmon: that amarok bug is already listed on launchpad
[04:29] <Riddell> jpatrick: no idea
[04:30] <jpatrick> running ./gener*.sh takes a minute but in pbuilder an hour
[04:30] <Riddell> probably the lack of X confuses inkscape
[04:31] <Riddell> explicity unsettings DISPLAY might help
[04:31] <jpatrick> oh great
[04:31] <jpatrick> it finished building
[04:31] <jpatrick> then...
[04:31] <jpatrick> cd theme/oxygen && cp -r * debian/kde-icons-oxygen/usr/share/icons/oxygen
[04:31] <jpatrick> cp: target `debian/kde-icons-oxygen/usr/share/icons/oxygen' is not a directory
[04:31] <kmon> Hobbsee: ok, thanks
[04:31] <kmon> I'm polishing the page a bit
[04:32] <Riddell> you'll be wanting to mkdir -p that directory first
[04:32] <Riddell> you probably also want to touch a build-stamp so that you don't have to make it all again if you run debuild -nc
[04:32] <jpatrick> I put "kde-icons-oxygen/usr/share/icons/oxygen" into debian/dirs
[04:33] <jpatrick> maybe without kde-icons-oxygen...
[04:34] <Riddell> sounds like a good idea
[04:34] <jpatrick> how do I unset DISPLAY?
[04:34] <apachelogger> unset DISPLAY ;-)
[04:35] <jpatrick> woah
[04:36] <imbrandon_> ssh 192.168.1.5
[04:36] <imbrandon_> grr whoops
[04:40] <jpatrick> apachelogger: hmm, command not found
[04:41] <apachelogger> jpatrick: btw, why would you unset the display?
[04:41] <jpatrick> stop inkscape from being confused
[04:42] <apachelogger> Oo
[04:42] <apachelogger> jpatrick: unsetting the display will probably confuse it anymore
[04:42] <apachelogger> just set it wherever inkscape is running on
[04:42] <jpatrick> as in http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/755571
[04:43] <apachelogger> env | grep DISPLAY
[04:43] <jpatrick> DISPLAY=:0.0
[04:43] <apachelogger> omg
[04:44] <apachelogger> why is inkspace confused then?!
[04:44] <jpatrick> in pbuilder :P
[04:44] <apachelogger> ah!
[04:44] <apachelogger> well
[04:44] <apachelogger> unsetting will probably not help
[04:44] <apachelogger> ...as in same errors will happen
[04:44] <jpatrick> any suggestions?
[04:44] <apachelogger> jpatrick: start crying ;-)
[04:45] <apachelogger> jpatrick: does it influence the exporting?
[04:45] <jpatrick> apachelogger: there is no exporting
[04:45] <apachelogger> uhm, not god
[04:46] <apachelogger> good probably ;-)
[04:46] <jpatrick> apachelogger: anyhoo we're all made of stars :P
[04:46] <apachelogger> so true that is :P
[04:49] <apachelogger> jpatrick: export without display set works for me
[04:50] <apachelogger> but the no gui option for inkscape doesn't ;-)
[04:50] <jpatrick> I don't know what pbuilder sets it as
[04:51] <apachelogger> wtf
[04:52] <apachelogger> bah, script broken
[04:53] <apachelogger> jpatrick: inkscape --without-gui --export-png="../oxygen/128x128/"$( echo $icon | cut -d . -f -1 ).png --export-dpi=72 --export-background-opacity=0 --export-width=128 --export-height=128 $icon > /dev/null
[04:53] <apachelogger> note the --without-gui
[04:53] <apachelogger> maybe it works for you
[04:54] <jeroenvrp> is it a known issue in kubuntu's kde 3.5.3 that /media/hdc are not automatically mounted (by HAL I presume) ?
[04:54] <jpatrick> apachelogger: hey, grrovy
[04:54] <abattoir> Riddell: I have modified the wiki( i think you have had a look at it), i posted the link at #ubuntu-devel, but Kamion doesnt seem to be around. 
[04:54] <imbrandon> jeroenvrp, my /media/hdc mounts auto ( its my cdrom ) also my dev burner mounts /media/hdd
[04:55] <imbrandon> ^^ kde 3.5.3
[04:55] <abattoir> i have a question before starting the porting process. ;) 
[04:55] <jeroenvrp> imbrandon: that is strange, I have myself and another user havinf the same exact problmes
[04:55] <jeroenvrp> imbrandon: what is your dvd /etc/fstab line?
[04:56] <jeroenvrp> 3 users allready
[04:56] <imbrandon> /dev/hdc        /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 user,noauto     0       0
[04:56] <imbrandon> /dev/hdd        /media/cdrom1   udf,iso9660 user,noauto     0       0
[04:56] <imbrandon> both automount when i put a cd/dvd in
[04:56] <imbrandon> ones is a cd/r and ones is a dvd+r
[04:56] <jeroenvrp> odd
[04:57] <jeroenvrp> I have the same line
[04:57] <jeroenvrp> the first one
[04:58] <imbrandon> tried remmoveing the noauto ?
[05:00] <\sh> re
[05:00] <jeroenvrp> imbrandon: no, but you have it and was always there
[05:00] <jeroenvrp> but I will try
[05:01] <jeroenvrp> imbrandon: that works
[05:01] <jeroenvrp> well that is strange
[05:01] <jeroenvrp> why doesnt work with some and the way around
[05:02] <imbrandon> jeroenvrp, no clue ...
[05:02] <jeroenvrp> Riddell: are you there
[05:02] <Riddell> anyone have news for UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter?
[05:02] <Riddell> jeroenvrp: hi
[05:02] <jeroenvrp> we have an automount bug in 3.5.3
[05:03] <jeroenvrp> some people have it, some don 
[05:03] <jeroenvrp> t
[05:03] <imbrandon> thats more of ubuntu not kde 3.5.3 specific
[05:03] <jeroenvrp> it has to do with , automount
[05:03] <jeroenvrp> I mean ,noauto in /etc/fstab
[05:03] <imbrandon> Riddell, not i ( news that is )
[05:03] <jeroenvrp> imbrandon: has this, me to
[05:03] <jeroenvrp> his works, ny won't
[05:04] <jeroenvrp> I remove it and know mine works
[05:04] <jeroenvrp> imbrandon: can you try to also remove it
[05:04] <imbrandon> jeroenvrp, i did thats why i sugested it to you
[05:04] <jeroenvrp> imbrandon: ooooh
[05:05] <jeroenvrp> so somehow before 3.5.3 nboauto was ignored
[05:05] <kmon> Riddell: edgy is about to start. How about a call for specs?
[05:05] <imbrandon> but as i said thats more base ubuntu not kde 3.5.3 specific , as kde dosent touch the /etc/fstab as far as i know ( other than to reaad it )
[05:05] <imbrandon> Riddell, yea call for specs ;)
[05:05] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:06] <jeroenvrp> imbrandon: in 3.5.2 it worked
[05:06] <kmon> and maybe leak the kde devs that are invited to attend the paris summit
[05:06] <jeroenvrp> oh wait
[05:06] <jeroenvrp> I recreated my homedir
[05:06] <Riddell> kmon: good idea
[05:07] <apachelogger> jpatrick: works now?
[05:07] <abattoir> Riddell: busy? ;) 
[05:08] <abattoir> i have a question about the initial porting proces...
[05:08] <kmon> Riddell: write something about google SoC proyects relateed to kubuntu if it hasn't been included in other newsletters
[05:08] <jpatrick> apachelogger: trying to remember how to patch...
[05:09] <abattoir> Riddell: should i use qwidgetfactory to load widgets from the .ui files dynamically(like being done w/ glade) or should i use pyuic?
[05:10] <abattoir> *QWidgetFactory :) 
[05:10] <Riddell> abattoir: in python you can also include kdesigner
[05:11] <Riddell> "import kdedesigner"
[05:11] <Riddell> "from myuifile import MyUIClass"
[05:11] <Riddell> but it only works if the file is in the same directory
[05:12] <abattoir> Riddell: oh... ok, i'll have a look at it :)
[05:12] <abattoir> I can start work right?
[05:12] <Riddell> please do!
[05:12] <abattoir> or should i wait till the spec is approved?
[05:13] <Riddell> nah, just mind and poke kamion on monday
[05:13] <Riddell> how are you planning to start?
[05:13] <Riddell> and where will your code be?
[05:13] <abattoir> Riddell: i've looked at the oem-config code
[05:13] <abattoir> i'll create a paralell directory and work on it
[05:14] <abattoir> modify glade widgets to Qt ones.
[05:14] <Riddell> does colin have an archive for oem-config?
[05:14] <abattoir> there is a package called oem-config
[05:14] <abattoir> i think main
[05:14] <Riddell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/oem-config/mainline/
[05:14] <abattoir> one sec
[05:15] <Riddell> so you should install bzr
[05:15] <Riddell> and  bzr branch http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/oem-config/mainline/
[05:15] <abattoir> Riddell: ok...
[05:16] <\sh> Riddell: import kdedesigner is not a good approach..it slows down the startup, just kdepyuic the widgets in a makefile 
[05:16] <Riddell> then bzr add, bzr commit are your friends
[05:16] <Riddell> bzr log  to see the revision history
[05:16] <Riddell> bzr merge  to pick up new changes from colin
[05:16] <jpatrick> Riddell: what were the commands to patch? for something...
[05:17] <Riddell> and rsync it to a web server somewhere
[05:17] <Riddell> jpatrick: patch -p0 < foo.diff
[05:17] <Riddell> \sh: tell it to abattoir :)
[05:17] <abattoir> Riddell: ok thanks :) and about what \sh said?
[05:17] <abattoir> aah ok :) 
[05:18] <Riddell> you could also look up how to do a bzr push instead of rsync
[05:18] <\sh> abattoir: if you create a pykde app don't use pyuic, but the pykde tool :)
[05:18] <abattoir> \sh: then it is better to use pyuic?
[05:18] <Riddell> export BZREMAIL="Jonathan Riddell <jriddell@ubuntu.com>"  before any commit
[05:18] <Riddell> with your name and e-mail of course
[05:18] <\sh> abattoir: yes
[05:18] <Riddell> \sh: use kdepyuic not pyuic
[05:19] <Riddell> abattoir: ^^
[05:19] <\sh> abattoir: but use kdepyuic for pyqt+pykde widgets
[05:19] <imbrandon> \sh, can you use qt4 designer *.ui files with pykde ? ( curious for myself )
[05:19] <abattoir> \sh and Riddell: ok, thanks
[05:19] <\sh> imbrandon: I think with pyqt4
[05:19] <imbrandon> k
[05:19] <Riddell> oh that's a point, you might want to do this in qt 4
[05:19] <Riddell> if you're feeling adventurous
[05:19] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:19] <jpatrick> Riddell: for debian/rules ?
[05:19] <Riddell> but we don't have python packages for pyqt 4 yet
[05:20] <abattoir> Riddell: i have no problem, anyways i'll be learning a lot :) 
[05:20] <\sh> oh fun...I should start and have a look at pyqt4 packages ;)
[05:20] <imbrandon> Riddell, i noticed ;)
[05:20] <Riddell> jpatrick: cdbs or debhelper?
[05:20] <kmon> bye everyone
[05:20] <jpatrick> debhelper
[05:20] <imbrandon> l8tr kmon
[05:20] <jpatrick> bye kmon
[05:21] <\sh> Riddell: when will hurd^Wkde4 be released? ;)
[05:21] <abattoir> Riddell: so a kde vesion of oem-config would be called separately(like Ubiquity)?
[05:21] <Riddell> jpatrick: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/755677
[05:21] <abattoir> Riddell: I mean something like 'oem-config kde-ui' ?
[05:21] <imbrandon> koem-config possibly ;)
[05:22] <Riddell> \sh: preview release in october
[05:22] <\sh> ubiquity for kubuntu is named kubiquity ;)
[05:22] <Riddell> abattoir: yeah, something like that
[05:22] <Riddell> abattoir: look at how ubiquity does it
[05:22] <\sh> Riddell: so for edgy it's still qt3 and kde3
[05:22] <jpatrick> Riddell: that's what I needed! thanks.
[05:22] <abattoir> Riddell: i'll do that too...
[05:22] <Riddell> \sh: ubiquity for kubuntu is NOT NOT NOT kubiquity :)
[05:22] <\sh> Riddell: hehehe
[05:22] <imbrandon> hehehe
[05:22] <Riddell> \sh: qt 4 will be in, kde 4 probably not
[05:23] <\sh> Riddell: hmm...so I need to test kde3 compiled with qt4 ...
[05:23] <Riddell> silly Ubugtu wants too look up kde bug 4 each time I say kde 4
[05:23] <imbrandon> lol
[05:23] <Riddell> \sh: err, that won't work
[05:23] <Riddell> qt 3 will still be in
[05:24] <\sh> Riddell: that's what i meant, if we want a kde application for oem installer, we need to play still with pyqt3/pykde3 
[05:24] <imbrandon> Riddell, arent qt4 libs already in dapper ? ( wellif you install them from the repos ? )
[05:24] <Riddell> imbrandon: not main
[05:24] <imbrandon> ahh
[05:24] <\sh> because pyqt4 is still alpha/beta and pykde4 is a long road
[05:25] <Riddell> \sh: well he could do it in qt 4 and pyqt 4, but he's have to wait for pyqt 4 to be packaged, he wouldn't have KDE integration and there would be no example code to copy
[05:25] <imbrandon> \sh, both the qt3 and qt4 libs will be in edgy, but the wm will be kde3
[05:25] <Riddell> \sh: if it's still beta you're quite right, he should stick to pykde 3
[05:26] <\sh> Riddell: torsten is working on pyqt4 packaging afaik, but I still have to read pykde ml 
[05:26] <imbrandon> py apps shouldent be hard to port to qt4 later anyhow since theres a qt3 compatibility widgets
[05:26] <Riddell> freeflying-g4: ping
[05:26] <Riddell> freeflying-g4: "who's responsible for the www.ubuntu.org.cn site? there's a broken link there pointing to shipit"
[05:27] <\sh> imbrandon: the problem is not the python app, the problem is the pyqt4 lib ;)
[05:27] <imbrandon> true ;)
[05:27] <_Sime> IIRC, PyQt4 doesn't have the compat stuff.
[05:27] <imbrandon> ouch
[05:28] <_Sime> well, Qt4 has a C++ tool for converting qt3 code to qt4 code+compat widgets.
[05:28] <_Sime> python doesn't have that.
[05:28] <_Sime> the Qt3 compat widgets have different names.
[05:28] <imbrandon> \sh, so whats the diff between pyuic ( what i use right now with qt3 designer files ) and pykde ?
[05:29] <imbrandon> _Sime, yea i knew there was diff names just knew they was also there
[05:29] <Riddell> imbrandon: kdepyuic works with KDE widgets
[05:29] <imbrandon> like qttest is qt3test etc
[05:29] <\sh> imbrandon: pyuic just imports import qt; and kdepyuic is added import kdecore to the resulting python files generated from the .ui files
[05:29] <\sh> oh wow
[05:29] <_Sime> imbrandon: I think it also does the i18n() in a KDE way and not in a Qt way (with tr() )
[05:29] <\sh> let me rephrase
[05:30] <\sh> imbrandon: pyuic imports qt, and kdepyuic is adding kdecore and kdeui (i think) to the generated python code
[05:30] <imbrandon> _Sime,  ahh
[05:30] <\sh> _Sime: that you can change with pyuic
[05:31] <\sh> -tr func        Use func() rather than QApplication.translate() for i18n
[05:31] <yuriy> Riddell: I started: wiki.kubuntu.org/KDEGuidanceWineSpec
[05:31] <imbrandon> \sh, ahh ok , i see now, was just wondering as i'm just now learning py/qt stuff ( i've been stuck in mono c# for ages )
[05:31] <Riddell> yuriy: rocking!
[05:31] <_Sime> \sh: I believe you. :)
[05:32] <\sh> _Sime: but I don't believe me sometimes ;)
[05:32] <imbrandon> and mono gui apps are hard to make kdeish as the kde bindings are young and mostly windows.forms uses gtk# or wine
[05:33] <imbrandon> so onto py/qt it was for me ;)
[05:33] <\sh> imbrandon: i thought qt# was abandoned
[05:33] <imbrandon> \sh, yea abandond in a young state
[05:33] <imbrandon> ie not useable
[05:33] <_Sime> the .net + Qt/KDE bindings have been getting a little bit of attention lately.
[05:33] <_Sime> but it is far from stable
[05:34] <imbrandon> which realy sucks for guys like me that use kde totaly and use c# 
[05:34] <_Sime> I don't know if Richard is going to spend more time on it for KDE4.
[05:34] <imbrandon> i either have to learn something else for my gui apps like py or use gtk ;)
[05:34] <\sh> imbrandon: then don't use c# ;)
[05:35] <imbrandon> hehe i've been using c# for quite a few years \sh old habbits are hard to break ;)
[05:35] <imbrandon> but yea , thats why mainly i've been learning pyqt
[05:35] <_Sime> cool
[05:35] <imbrandon> and i guess pykde would be a better choice ;)
[05:36] <Riddell> yuriy: what revision control are you using and where is it available?
[05:36] <\sh> imbrandon: the same phrase I used when some guys wanted to force me to switch to python...I said "No, I've been using perl for more then 9 years now, and I don't change my language to python"
[05:37] <imbrandon> heheh ;)
[05:37] <\sh> well, I'm using both now ;)
[05:37] <imbrandon> well i never pay'ed python much attn till now becosue scripting ( like for my websites ) has always been php so no need for me to leanr it till now
[05:38] <imbrandon> yea looks like i'll be a php/python/c# guy ;)
[05:38] <imbrandon> instead of php/c# ;)
[05:38] <imbrandon> btw the php gtk rocks but again phpqt sucks ;)
[05:38] <imbrandon> heheh seems like a catch 22 most times
[05:39] <\sh> please remind me: If I will ever write a UI app in php with whatever toolkit, please shoot me on sight
[05:39] <\sh> well, remind me first, then shoot me 
[05:39] <imbrandon> \sh, hahaha i've had to a few times, makes a GREAT rad tool for windows/linux cross dev , then later to be converted when time permits
[05:40] <imbrandon> php impot the glade files and be done, works on windows/linux with no code changes etc etc , but thats a diff story altogather ;)
[05:40] <yuriy> Riddell: KDE SVN, but I haven't made any commits yet
[05:41] <imbrandon> and i'm sure the same can be said for python, but as i said i already knew php at the time so there was no need
[05:43] <imbrandon> \sh, no pykde package, it it called something else ?
[05:43] <\sh> imbrandon: python2.4-kde3
[05:43] <imbrandon> k
[05:43] <imbrandon> heh was gonna try it out ;)
[05:44] <\sh> imbrandon: better to install python-kde3 and python-kde3-dev
[05:44] <imbrandon> k yea i think i have those for pyuic but i'll make sure
[05:44] <\sh> imbrandon: in python-kde3-dev there is the kdepyuic...
[05:45] <imbrandon> kk brb someone at the front door
[05:52] <abattoir> Riddell: is there any specific place where i am expected to put the code?
[05:52] <abattoir> i mean online....
[05:52] <Riddell> abattoir: any web server
[05:53] <Riddell> abattoir: have you branched colin's code?
[05:53] <abattoir> Riddell: nope just installed bzr, and d'loaded ubiquity....
[05:53] <abattoir> i'll do that now
[05:53] <abattoir> Riddell: then give me a week's time till i get myself a hosting service ;)
[05:54] <abattoir> or would that e late?
[05:54] <abattoir> *be
[05:54] <Riddell> abattoir: I can give you an account somewhere if you need it
[05:54] <abattoir> Riddell: that'd be great :) 
[05:55] <abattoir> but forget it, if it'd be too much of a pain....
[05:55] <abattoir> need to get a site hosted soon anyways.
[05:55] <MidMark> guys none know in the kubuntu channel -> is it possible to activate surround in amarok? I've tried variuos surround40 ecc. but no sound from rear speakers...
[05:56] <Riddell> abattoir: /msg
[05:56] <abattoir> Riddell: got it thanks
[05:57] <abattoir> Riddell: i'll use it temporarily till i get a domain and a host.
[05:57] <Riddell> cool
[05:57] <Riddell> yuriy: thanks
[06:10] <MidMark> is it normal? 
[06:10] <MidMark> Jun  3 16:25:33 localhost kdm_greet[5716] : Can't open default user face
[06:10] <MidMark> Jun  3 16:25:37 localhost kdm_greet[5716] : Internal error: memory corruption detected
[06:11] <Riddell> MidMark: it's been reported before
[06:11] <Riddell> MidMark: do you have a .face-something file?
[06:11] <Riddell> .face.icon
[06:11] <MidMark> Riddell: in home?
[06:11] <Riddell> yes
[06:12] <MidMark> nope
[06:13] <Riddell> hmm, maybe it breaks when you don't have one
[06:13] <Riddell> try copying a random .png file there
[06:14] <MidMark> there where?
[06:14] <Riddell> ~/.face.icon
[06:14] <MidMark> is it a dir? I have to create it?
[06:15] <Riddell> no, a file
[06:15] <Riddell> a PNG file
[06:16] <MidMark> is it the user icon?
[06:17] <Riddell> I believe so
[06:17] <\sh> Riddell: are you already reading kurts article about kubuntu and printing?
[06:17] <Riddell> \sh: yes
[06:17] <Riddell> he seems to blame us for problems in CUPS
[06:18] <\sh> Riddell: We had at the last day of linuxtag a nice chat with kurt and till
[06:19] <\sh> Riddell: if you can manage, please invite Till to the ubuntu conf...he is working at mandriva hq in paris I think...
[06:19] <\sh> Riddell: he was complaining about the cups stuff in ubuntu, too :)
[06:21] <\sh> Riddell: but the best way to solve this problem: Don't use printers, use PDF and a good document management :)
[06:21] <Riddell> too late to get him an official invite, but I can e-mail him and suggest he drop by
[06:21] <Riddell> that's how I solve it :)
[06:21] <Riddell> well, I have a printer from the nice MEPIS people, it works well
[06:22] <crimsun> a lot of people seem aggravated by that issue, but afaik it was a Debian decision to go that route; *buntu simply integrated it
[06:22] <\sh> Riddell: yeah, just a mail to say: "Hey come over here" ;)
[06:22] <Riddell> crimsun: which route?
[06:22] <crimsun> Riddell: the management frontend
[06:23] <crimsun> (are we referring to the same cups/kubuntu rant?)
[06:23] <\sh> crimsun: yes
[06:24] <Riddell> crimsun: Ubuntu/Kubuntu is the first distro to use CUPS 1.2, Debian hasn't changed yet
[06:24] <\sh> crimsun: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2064 and http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2072
[06:24] <crimsun> ah, I haven't read 2072
[06:24] <\sh> crimsun: it's "printing and kubuntu live cd"
[06:26] <crimsun> yeah, just finished reading it
[06:29] <Riddell> I like zander's comment at the bottom :)
[06:30] <imbrandon> hehe yea , i just finished reading it and zanders comment was the best thing about the whole page
[06:31] <toma> Riddell: well, if you are the first that is great, but at least be responsive to bug reports and fix them quickly.
[06:32] <crimsun> well, let's not put too much pressure on Riddell. Or if we do, we have to send lots of ponies.
[06:32] <Riddell> toma: pitti be packaging CUPS 1.2.1 soon
[06:33] <\sh> I threw away
[06:33] <toma> crimsun: no, i'm not ranting, i need a solution, thats all.
[06:34] <imbrandon> \sh, i have a printer ( hp psc 500 ) but i seem to never have the problems described there or other places, guess i'm just lucky
[06:35] <toma> Riddell: the packages at http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/cups don't fix anything for me, but i think 1.2.1 will solve some other problems.
[06:35] <\sh> toma: that's ivoks cups...not pittis
[06:35] <toma> right
[06:37] <\sh> the right way would be: 1. pitti and Till are working together on cups stuff ;) and 2. don't use printers at all ;) 
[06:37] <pygi> \sh: first one is better :P
[06:37] <toma> \sh: well, 2 is needed to print invoices, so I stay alive.
[06:38] <\sh> toma: no...I need just a pdf for an invoice and gpg
[06:38] <toma> \sh: lucky you
[06:39] <\sh> toma: the printing is done via windows from those people paying my bill ;)
[06:40] <jpatrick> Riddell: it lives...
[06:40] <Riddell> jpatrick: ooh?
[06:40] <jpatrick> kde-icons-oxygen
[06:41] <Riddell> jpatrick: slap it on revu
[06:41] <jpatrick> I think I should really remove the .svn dirs
[06:42] <jpatrick> cos the .deb's full of them
[06:42] <apachelogger> jpatrick: absolutely
[06:42] <\sh> jpatrick: svn export instead of svn checkout?
[06:42] <Riddell> find . -name .svn | xargs rm -rf
[06:42] <\sh> or use riddels approach ;)
[06:43] <MidMark> guys printing is impossible, I have added a printer and then it is disappeared
[06:43] <toma> *sigh*
[06:43] <MidMark> nope sorry it is present but only for amminstrator? I have to add it via non admin?
[06:43] <jpatrick> that in debian/rules?
[06:44] <\sh> MidMark: the printer? how comes? aliens? scotty beamed the printer to the enterprise? ;)
[06:44] <Riddell> jpatrick: before making the .orig
[06:44] <MidMark> it's a canon pixma ip4200 usb
[06:44] <imbrandon> \sh, hehe not funny my printserver is named enterprise ;) ( eg all my computers are named after federation starships ;P )
[06:45] <imbrandon> MidMark, #kubuntu would be a better place for support questions
[06:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: will there be a package of kopete 0.12?
[06:46] <Riddell> apachelogger: has it been released?
[06:46] <imbrandon> Riddell, yes
[06:46] <apachelogger> yup
[06:46] <apachelogger> at least akregator told me ;-)
[06:46] <\sh> s/kopete/psi/ much better ;)
[06:46] <\sh> and no icq or msn 
[06:46] <imbrandon> kmess ;)
[06:46] <Riddell> hmm, I don't konw what the best w;ay to package kopete is, if it should be a separate source package or a big patch to kdenetwork
[06:47] <\sh> Riddell: backport patches to kdenetwork?
[06:47] <apachelogger> well, seperate package would lead to the question how to versionize
[06:48] <Riddell> apachelogger: so would big patch to kdenetwork
[06:48] <apachelogger> yeah
[06:48] <Riddell> using patches to package separate branches seems ugly
[06:48] <\sh> Riddell: then we need to provide new releases to akregator, too
[06:49] <Riddell> I'm minded to just have a separate source, I don't /think/ that should cause any problems
[06:49] <Riddell> have they had a separate release too?
[06:49] <\sh> Riddell: they had, and afaik they have 
[06:49] <imbrandon> why dosent kopete split its self from kdenetwork ?
[06:49] <\sh> kopete is just a hell of an app
[06:49] <\sh> imbrandon: it was separate before, then included into kdenetwork
[06:50] <Riddell> Not here they havn't http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=15621
[06:50] <Riddell> imbrandon: KDE is frozen just now
[06:50] <\sh> Riddell: then they changed their behaviour
[06:50] <apachelogger> http://akregator.pwsp.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=13&Itemid=26
[06:50] <crimsun> personally I would split off kopete and rebuild kdenetwork
[06:51] <Riddell> kopete would need to be versioned 4:3.5.3-kopete0.12.0-0ubuntu1
[06:51] <Riddell> lovely
[06:51] <Riddell> apachelogger: "October 2005" that's old
[06:51] <apachelogger> so no realease
[06:51] <apachelogger> blog also doesn't say anything about new release
[06:52] <\sh> or don't build the kopete source in kdenetwork and attach kopetes new sources to kdenetwork source somehow..repackage it completly
[06:52] <apachelogger> \sh: maybe you're talking about the new feature in 3.5.3?
[06:52] <jpatrick> \sh: aka big patch
[06:52] <\sh> apachelogger: no when akregator was included in kdenetwork/kdepim it released sometimes bugfixes
[06:52] <\sh> apachelogger: separate from kde release
[06:52] <apachelogger> hm
[06:52] <\sh> apachelogger: just like kopete...
[06:53] <apachelogger> kopete's configure possabilities are just a shame
[06:53] <\sh> and to be honest, kopete is the worst app (next to gaim) for a kde/gnome release
[06:54] <\sh> the plugins are most likely to fail one or two weeks after release, when aol changes their protocol again
[06:54] <\sh> and then, they release a single kopete version which is not in the kde release tree
[06:55] <crimsun> Riddell: if you're going to split out kopete's source package, why not just bump the epoch and start with 5:0.12.0-0ubuntu1? Is there any real tie to maintain compatibility?
[06:55] <Riddell> KDE already has one of the highest epochs in use 
[06:55] <\sh> If I remeber right, the last time, for breezy, there was the same situation, breezy released, kde released as well, and icq changed their protocol, and kopete was crashing
[06:55] <Riddell> I expect kopete to release as part of KDE again in the future
[06:55] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think jingle support should be possible for kopete - at least Tm_T told me that it compiles without problems with dapper libortp
[06:56] <Riddell> anyone know how tm_t versioned his packages?
[06:57] <apachelogger> hm, there is a beta1 package
[06:57] <\sh> Riddell: why not a separate kopete package with -0kubuntu1 ?
[06:57] <apachelogger>  Version: 5:0.12-beta1-debug-1
[06:57] <\sh> Riddell: for the next release we can conflict/replaces kdenetwork with kopete-0.12-0kubuntu1 ;)
[06:58] <Riddell> there's nothing to conflict, the binary package will always be kopete
[06:58] <\sh> it's won't even go into the official ubuntu repositories
[06:58] <\sh> Riddell: not if we change it to "kopete_hell" ;)
[06:59] <apachelogger> lol
[06:59] <\sh> or just forget about kopete
[06:59] <\sh> edgy is just 4 months away
[06:59] <apachelogger> well
[06:59] <apachelogger> far too much used application
[07:00] <jpatrick> apachelogger: dude, how many amaroK's do you have running?
[07:00] <apachelogger> huh?
[07:00] <apachelogger> jpatrick: why?
[07:00] <\sh> apachelogger: sad enough, we should castrate kopete to use jabber plugin only
[07:00] <apachelogger> oohhh
[07:01] <apachelogger> jpatrick: nice bug ;-)
[07:01] <jpatrick> apachelogger: ;)
[07:01] <apachelogger> \sh: oh yeah
[07:01] <crimsun> \sh: oh I can imagine yet more angry dot posts about that one...
[07:01] <apachelogger> that's why I hate the configure options
[07:01] <apachelogger> I don't use msn, icq, aim, icq or anything else - just jabber
[07:01] <\sh> crimsun: printing or kopete? ;)
[07:01] <apachelogger> so why the hell do I have to do 45min compile just to get my jabber client up to date?
[07:02] <crimsun> \sh: castrating kopete :)
[07:02] <\sh> crimsun: honestly, we want to provide opensource to the world, so why should we deliver an app which is using non open sourced protocols?
[07:02] <\sh> crimsun: but for this I can live with the rants...
[07:03] <\sh> crimsun: the tricky part is to provide a jabber server which runs the transports and give the user the possibility to use those transports
[07:03] <\sh> to not forget their icq buddies
[07:05] <pygi> \sh: we had this discussion already...it's is not somewhat l
[07:05] <pygi> clear for admin to run a server with transports enabled
[07:06] <\sh> pygi: check jabber.org server, they don't have transports enabled, but other servers have, so jabber.org users are using public jabber icq transports e.g. on other servers (like mine)
[07:06] <pygi> yes, indeed
[07:07] <\sh> so problem solved, no more point releases to update for kopete, everybody happy. ;)
[07:07] <pygi> hehe ;)
[07:07] <pygi> If only transports would work perfectly ;)
[07:08] <\sh> pygi: they don't have to: gmail jabber user invites msn user to gmail
[07:08] <pygi> ah :)
[07:08] <jpatrick> ok kde-icons-oxygen on revu
[07:08] <pygi> jpatrick, nice ;)
[07:09] <\sh> msn user is clicking on the invitation link, google has a new customer, and they are neighbours again ;)
[07:09] <pygi> yes, yes, joy ;)
[07:09] <Riddell> jpatrick: did you get the pbuilder compile time down?
[07:09] <jpatrick> Riddell: no
[07:10] <jpatrick> apachelogger's thing didn't work
[07:10] <jpatrick> oh wait
[07:11] <jpatrick> someone needs to update pbuilder on revu
[07:11] <jpatrick> crimsun: ^
[07:12] <crimsun> jpatrick: not an admin, ping siretart/ajmitch/sistpoty
[07:12] <jpatrick> oh ok
[07:13] <\sh> i think we need to update revu to dapper ;)
[07:14] <\sh> shermann@tiber:~$ w
[07:14] <\sh>  13:09:35 up 175 days, 20:16,  7 users,  load average: 0.03, 0.22, 0.38
[07:17] <\sh> jpatrick: oxygene package will be arch indep?
[07:17] <jpatrick> \sh: yeah I forgot that
[07:17] <apachelogger> \sh: -e ;-)
[07:18] <\sh> jpatrick: I'm just asking, because I want it to compile on my amd64 and install it on my laptop ;)
[07:18] <\sh> apachelogger: oxygn?
[07:18] <\sh> ;)
[07:18] <apachelogger> oxygen
[07:18] <apachelogger> :P
[07:19] <\sh> jpatrick: so archtictecture must be all, not any, right?
[07:20] <jpatrick> \sh: fix uploaded
[07:20] <apachelogger> oh
[07:20] <apachelogger> 18:46:22 (108.49 KB/s) - kubuntu-6.06-dvd-i386.iso saved [3657142272/3657142272] 
[07:20] <apachelogger> :D
[07:22] <\sh> we need a nice app for svgs..inkscape are too many gtk deps
[07:22] <apachelogger> split inkscape
[07:23] <apachelogger> library and frontends
[07:23] <crimsun> multibuild hell!
[07:23] <apachelogger> ;-)
[07:23] <\sh> remove inkscape introduce: kink-scape
[07:23] <apachelogger> one could also find 30 devs for karbon13
[07:24] <\sh> or we need something like "Knome" a KDE gnome emulator...
[07:24] <apachelogger> hm
[07:25] <apachelogger> isn't portland aiming to make such a thingy unneeded?
[07:26] <\sh> apachelogger: when? after oregon is released?
[07:26] <apachelogger> probably ;-)
[07:27] <apachelogger> everyone to use KDE
[07:27] <apachelogger> http://www.linux-discount.de/merchandising/index_html/merchandising/novellfanartikel
[07:27] <apachelogger> wtf!!!!!!
[07:27] <apachelogger> Riddell: how's the Kubuntu merchandise machine running?
[07:30] <\sh> kwwii: wow...great icons, but if the panel is in tiny mode, as I have it on this little piece of 12" laptop display, the crystal icons are better
[07:31] <pygi> you could always go. assemble devs, and make QT port of Inkscape
[07:31] <Riddell> apachelogger: it's not
[07:31] <apachelogger> :S
[07:31] <cmvo> Riddell: Is the kubuntu mug available somewhere?
[07:31] <Riddell> kubuntu.de
[07:32] <apachelogger> we need to get that stuff running - merchandise is always a good point of promotion
[07:32] <jpatrick> ok revu deb's work
[07:32] <\sh> cmvo: http://www.linuxshop.de/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=241
[07:32] <\sh> cmvo: it's amus shop
[07:33] <cmvo> Riddell, \sh: Ah, thanks. Just what the doctor ordered :-)
[07:33] <\sh> apachelogger: speak with amu
[07:33] <apachelogger> aye aye
[07:42] <goldenear> Tonio_: ping
[07:47] <jpatrick> Tonio_: ping
[08:01] <goldenear> jpatrick: Tonio_ seems to be busy :(
[08:01] <jpatrick> goldenear: yep
[08:03] <\sh> Riddell: I'll subscribe to the kubuntu teams again
[08:04] <\sh> Riddell: argl..I can't subscribe, I'm deactivated
[10:11] <\sh> kwwii: answered your question via mail :) 
[10:18] <kwwii> cool :-)
[10:18] <kwwii> I could reall get to like using excrytped mail
[10:18] <kwwii> erm, spelling
[10:18] <\sh> kwwii: we can share pr0n now ;)
[10:19] <kwwii> lol
[10:19] <kwwii> my friend at novell just got fired for that
[10:19] <\sh> kwwii: that's why i don't have my gpg keys installed on my company notebook ;)
[10:20] <\sh> I need to fix gpg to use gpg cryptosmartcards
[10:20] <\sh> so i can carry around a pcmcia or usb device with a nice smartcard where my gpg is sleeping in piece ;)
[10:21] <kwwii> between having pr0n on your harddrive and not giving up the key to you encrypted partition, you loose your job at suse these days
[10:21] <kwwii> yeah, having a usbstick with it would be nice
[10:22] <\sh> kwwii: btw..you got my message about oxygen icons and a tiny panel size?
[10:23] <jpatrick> I just packaged Oxygen
[10:25] <kwwii> jpatrick: where do you intend to put that?
[10:26] <kwwii> jpatrick: would you be unhappy if I asked you to wait to put it anywhere important?
[10:26] <jpatrick> No
[10:26] <kwwii> it is still kinda early
[10:26] <jpatrick> I was told to work on a package
[10:26] <kwwii> we are working like crazy on it, so it'll be done enough to really test in a few weeks
[10:26] <kwwii> hehe, cool
[10:26] <kwwii> I mean, I am happy that you did it
[10:27] <kwwii> but I would hate to start getting 100 emails telling me what is still bad about it when we are not even ready to announce a first release
[10:27] <jpatrick> It's quite cool
[10:27] <kwwii> thanks :-)
[10:28] <kwwii> we will probably change the color of the default folder icon
[10:28] <kwwii> to brown I guess
[10:28] <kwwii> or perhaps a lighter version of brown
I like the blue</pro-kde>
[10:30] <\sh> kwwii: but the new konqui icon is fantastic
[10:30] <kwwii> but it looks horrible at small sizes, we have to fix that
[10:31] <kwwii> I always use a small panel
[10:31] <kwwii> and I just fixed the system icon for the panel as well :-)
[10:32] <kwwii> jpatrick: you should be sure to check the script in my (Ken) dir to know how the rendering is being done
[10:32] <\sh> oh i'm so sad, that I suck in arts, really
[10:33] <jpatrick> kwwii: I did have an awful error
[10:33] <jpatrick> kwwii: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/755571
[10:33] <kwwii> jpatrick: well the small sizes will look half so nasty as normal without the imagemagick options
[10:34] <jpatrick> kwwii: it slowed build time from 2 minutes to an hour
[10:34] <kwwii> yeah, I know, but that is life
[10:34] <kwwii> it is really cup intensive
[10:34] <kwwii> cpu
[10:34] <jpatrick> yeah
[10:35] <jpatrick> Maybe I shouldn't have had amaroK running at the time...
[10:35] <\sh> I wonder how long it takes on 2 dual core 2.2GHz Opterons with 16gb ram
[10:35] <kwwii> we are using a different scaling filter and doing sharpening and contrast adjustment
[10:35] <kwwii> the ram is unimportant
[10:35] <\sh> kernel compile with make -j 4 took less then 2 minutes 
[10:35] <kwwii> the cpus make it rock
[10:36] <\sh> I'm trying to get one from the company who is producing our servers...
[10:36] <kwwii> when I run the script on my mac I cannot open a konqi window for 20-30 seconds
[10:36] <\sh> with the same hardware actually, so 8 TB sata raid 6 comes with it ;)
[10:37] <kwwii> luckily the file size is also unimportant :-)
[10:37] <\sh> kwwii: believe me, these machines are quite cool....
[10:37] <pygi> hey kwwii ;)
[10:37] <kwwii> oh, I do believe you :-)
[10:37] <kwwii> howdy pygi
[10:38] <\sh> kwwii: right now, 400 of these machines are build in our datacenter...at the end we should have (1. stage) 1k of those computers
[10:39] <\sh> and I'm responsible for installing suse on those machines
[10:39] <\sh> life sometimes sucks
[10:40] <kwwii> hehe
[10:40] <kwwii> I had to keep the usability lab up and running and that was too much for me
[10:40] <\sh> kwwii: but the kernel was until thursday an ubuntu kernel ;)
[10:40] <kwwii> ouch
[10:41] <\sh> kwwii: because sles9 kernel doesn't support areca raid controllers 
[10:41] <\sh> kwwii: ubuntu does, but has problems too. now a plain vanilla 2.6.16 is doing a great job
[10:41] <kwwii> hehe
[10:41] <kwwii> cool
[10:42] <kwwii> trust in the source, luke
[10:42] <kwwii> one of my first answers from a developer when discussing a certain unamed program was "read the source, luke"
[10:43] <kwwii> I don't think I have hated anyone so much since
[10:43] <\sh> kwwii: well, in 2.6.15 there is (as I understood it, from the manufacture kernel guy) a glitch in the scsi driver, and combined with the areca patch it makes "peng"
[10:44] <\sh> 2.6.16 fixes this and areaca is running like a charm...on of the first 16 channel raid 6 sata controller these days
[10:44] <\sh> s/on/one/
[10:44] <kwwii> lucky you
[10:45] <kwwii> saves a lot of sweat
[10:45] <\sh> oh no...it costs me 4 days
[10:46] <\sh> of limited time...next week we want to deploy 200 servers...just boot the machines and install...200 hundred of them, let's what is burning first, ubuntu server or our network
[10:46] <\sh> let's see even
[10:48] <kwwii> hehe
[10:49] <\sh> ok enough from work...
[10:51] <imbrandon_> \sh: what are you doing with so many servers ? cluster ? hosting ?
[10:53] <\sh> imbrandon_: that's a secret...I signed an NDA to not tell anybody what we are doing...but we could do something like finding aliens for the seti project ;) actually even right now, we are the datacenter with the fastest internet connection in germany, and we are no. 1 in things like storage per squaremeter
[10:53] <imbrandon_> ahh cool, was just curious ;)
[10:54] <imbrandon_> yea seti@ would be cool on that many ;)
[10:54] <imbrandon_> heh
[10:54] <\sh> imbrandon_: customer product launch is on 12th July
[10:54] <imbrandon_> nice
[10:56] <\sh> imbrandon_: well, to be honest, I'm just responsible to setup FAI, but our datacenter guys, they need to install them into the racks...and that's not a nice job...19" full length machines, 16 500GB sata hds, the machines weight is at least 10-15 KGs 
[10:57] <\sh> and they won't do anything then be storage for customers...nothing else...the logic behind all this is running on hp blade centers...as well dual core opterons
[10:58] <imbrandon_> nice
[10:59] <imbrandon_> yea those 4 servers are all mysql db servers with only one of them a logic server with dual opterons and 4 x 400gb sata raid 0 drives ( 2 mysql servers live 2 as backup mirros )
[11:01] <imbrandon_> like i said modest by most people but i'm happy with it ;)
[11:01] <Flosoft> hey @ all
[11:02] <Flosoft> still alot of people getting Kubuntu
[11:02] <imbrandon_> thats a good thing ;0
[11:02] <Flosoft> I got an average of 5 new people clicking download a minute
[11:02] <\sh> Flosoft: do you have mrtg stats or rrd graphics for the mirror? 
[11:02] <Flosoft> yes
[11:02] <Flosoft> not public ones but yes
[11:03] <Flosoft> the last 48hours: 20 Terra Byte of Kubuntu Downloads ;)
[11:03] <Flosoft> which is aloooot!
[11:03] <imbrandon_> Flosoft: which mirror ( sorry if i sounds ignorant still new to kubuntu-devel by a few months )
[11:03] <Flosoft> Flosoft Mirror Network ;)
[11:03] <Flosoft> I had 9
[11:03] <imbrandon_> heheh ;)
[11:03] <imbrandon_> nice
[11:03] <Flosoft> now only 3 are still up
[11:03] <\sh> Flosoft: bandwidth? (the traffic itself is nothing to worry about) 
[11:03] <Flosoft> my main ones
[11:04] <Flosoft> well the 3 primary ones that I run have Dual 20Gbit/s Fibre Optic
[11:04] <Flosoft> and they had 20TB Traffic
[11:04] <imbrandon_> Flosoft: and thats just kubuntu or *buntu ?
[11:04] <Flosoft> only Kubuntu
[11:04] <imbrandon_> NICE
[11:04] <Flosoft> I don't like ubuntu ;)
[11:04] <\sh> Flosoft: to the internet? (20Gbit/s)?
[11:04] <Flosoft> yes
[11:05] <Flosoft> my 3 main mirrors
[11:05] <Flosoft> the other ones are from companies or private people with between 10 and 100 Mbp/s
[11:05] <\sh> Flosoft: that means, you occupied 20Gbit/s the last 48hours continously?
[11:05] <Flosoft> yes
[11:05] <Flosoft> 3 Mirrors with 20Gbit/s
[11:05] <Flosoft> in total 20 TerraBytes Traffic
[11:06] <Flosoft> a bit more now
[11:06] <Flosoft> and still heavy downloading going on now
[11:06] <\sh> Flosoft: how do you get more then 2gb/s to the servers?
[11:06] <imbrandon_> you should let Riddell have a copy of those mrtg graphs for kubuntu.org or the kubuntu news letter to show off ;)
[11:06] <\sh> Flosoft: you don't do bonding, do you?
[11:06] <Flosoft> they're in a German DataCenter
[11:06] <Flosoft> bonding?
[11:07] <Flosoft> I am doing hosting ;)
[11:07] <imbrandon_> heh maybe \sh 's datacenter ;)
[11:07] <\sh> that can't be, no one else has 20gbit/s 
[11:07] <\sh> we are the only one, that's why i'm shocked :)
[11:07] <jpatrick> you got competetion
[11:07] <Flosoft> Europe?
[11:07] <\sh> Flosoft: germany
[11:07] <Flosoft> hehe
[11:07] <Flosoft> exactly
[11:07] <\sh> Flosoft: level3 connection in ffm...
[11:08] <Flosoft> I don't know too much bout the specs
[11:08] <Flosoft> We are in Berlin
[11:08] <imbrandon_> Flosoft: you should let Riddell have a copy of those mrtg graphs for kubuntu.org or the kubuntu news letter to show off ;)
[11:08] <\sh> Flosoft: karlsruhe...you know web.de or formlery web.de?
[11:08] <\sh> formerly ;)
[11:08] <Flosoft> yes
[11:08] <Flosoft> web.de ... what is it now?
[11:09] <\sh> Flosoft: 1&1 but we are not 1&1 :) we are combots :)
[11:09] <Flosoft> ah .. 1&1 is nice ,)
[11:09] <Flosoft> ;)
[11:09] <Flosoft> but I am with the biggest Competition of 1&1 in germany ;)
[11:09] <\sh> Flosoft: as I said, we are not 1&1 :) we sold web.de to 1&1 :)
[11:09] <\sh> imbrandon_: we don't do business
[11:10] <\sh> hosting business
[11:10] <Flosoft> well ok ;)
[11:10] <Flosoft> I'll upload an image of the Graphs
[11:10] <Flosoft> last 6 hours
[11:10] <Flosoft> of one of the mirrors
[11:10] <\sh> Flosoft: what's the biggest competior of 1&1? schlund?
[11:10] <\sh> (teles)
[11:10] <Flosoft> Strato AG?
[11:11] <Flosoft> yes
[11:11] <Flosoft> Teles
[11:11] <Flosoft> well Strato = Teles = Freenet = ....
[11:11] <Flosoft> :p
[11:11] <\sh> ah then ok :)
[11:11] <imbrandon_> ahh my two domains are hosted at diffrent data centers , i need to get them both on one server though, still trying to find the best one for my money .... imbrandon.com is with one and one but i dont like them much, and buntudot.org is with dreamhost.com ;) will probbly move both to dreamhost unless i find something better
[11:11] <\sh> but you are not alone on your line ;)
[11:11] <Flosoft> afaik they have the fastest DataCentre in EU no?
[11:11] <\sh> Flosoft: no.
[11:11] <\sh> Flosoft: combots has :)
[11:12] <\sh> Flosoft: as a single, not sharing any bandwidth with others, datacenter
[11:12] <Flosoft> ah ok
[11:12] <Flosoft> well yes, we share the bandwidth
[11:12] <Flosoft> but we get a high speed ;)
[11:13] <\sh> Flosoft: but my question was: how do you get 20Gbit/s to the servers? you can do 2gbit/s with 2 fibre lines, or bonding (2 fibre lines, one for incoming traffic, one for outgoing traffic)
[11:14] <Flosoft> don't ask me ... I just check my server in the rack ;) via Serial Console ... it gives me these limits
[11:15] <Flosoft> and I had transfer rates as fast as these
[11:15] <\sh> imbrandon_: what is good for the money? what do you need?
[11:19] <\sh> oh wow...I just see, that my root server upstream lost his connection to decis
[11:19] <\sh> oh wow...I just see, that my root server upstream lost his connection to decix
[11:20] <imbrandon_> one sec phone thene 'll tell ya
[11:23] <Flosoft> \sh: that is bad ;)
[11:24] <\sh> Flosoft: well, as I can see in the ticket history, they are working on fixing this...
[11:24] <\sh> Flosoft: doesn't matter...netcologne has a direct connection to hosteurope :0
[11:33] <Flosoft> http://www.flosoft.biz/tmp/mrtg1.jpg
[11:35] <imbrandon_> \sh: sorry, had a phone call, but basicly all i need is ssh access , php5, mysql , and tons of storage ( 40+ gig )
[11:36] <imbrandon_> i get all that with dreamhost right now for about 200$ usd a year
[11:36] <\sh> imbrandon_: that's cheap
[11:37] <imbrandon_> yea it is but i have no idea what connection i'm on IE speed
[11:37] <imbrandon_> ;)
[11:37] <\sh> imbrandon_: vserver or real root server?
[11:37] <imbrandon_> vserver
[11:37] <Flosoft> \sh: Here you have your MRTG Graph: http://www.flosoft.biz/tmp/mrtg1.jpg
[11:38] <imbrandon_> \sh: would be nice to have a real root server then i could run all my neat apt-mirror stuff easier and such ;)
[11:38] <\sh> that mbits, not gbits :)
[11:38] <imbrandon_> but real vs virtual is usaly more $$
[11:41] <\sh> imbrandon_: sometimes yes :)