[12:18] <HedgeMage> grr missed him
[12:20] <LaserJock> hi HedgeMage 
[12:23] <HedgeMage> hi LaserJock 
[12:23] <HedgeMage> :P
[07:56] <purserj> question without notice
[07:56] <purserj> is there any reason why edubuntu's ship-it only does x86?
[07:57] <HedgeMage> purserj: because this is our first release using ship-it and we were only allowed to offer one CD image... in the future, if demand is high enough, we hope to offer others.
[07:57] <purserj> hmm
[08:00] <jsgotangco> that's correct
[08:00] <purserj> the only reason I ask is that ppc Macs still form a large percentage of machines in the australian school system where I am looking at demoing
[08:01] <jsgotangco> purserj: that's true, we're looking into addressing that in the next release
[08:01] <purserj> sweet
[08:01] <jsgotangco> edubuntu will be supporting ppc for quite a while for sure
[08:01] <purserj> Yup.
[08:02] <jsgotangco> does the school system mandatorily use macs?
[08:02] <jsgotangco> (before)
[08:02] <jsgotangco> or is it dependent pero state
[08:03] <purserj> Apple's worked itself into the various education departments in Australia pretty well
[08:03] <jsgotangco> ahh
[08:03] <purserj> Plus many schools don't have the funding to be able to upgrade their machines, hell my sons school had to have a fund raiser to build a shelter over the assembly area
[08:04] <jsgotangco> i see
[08:06] <Owie> purserj: what part of Oz are you from?
[08:07] <Owie> Brisbanite here :-P
[08:08] <purserj> Dapto just south od Sydney here, but Brisbane born
[08:13] <Owie> ah yeah. I do IT support at a local special school up here and have just stumbled upon edubuntu
[08:13] <HedgeMage> goodnight, all
[08:13] <HedgeMage> I'm off to bed
[08:13] <Owie> but unfortunately I dont think it will be suitable as the kids there use a lot of specialised (probably Windows-only) software :(
[08:13] <purserj> night
[11:26] <tony_> Hi, is there a package (or set of) that will install the LTSP stuff onto a Kubuntu server?
[11:45] <lucasvo> tony_: yes, edubuntu-server
[11:46] <lucasvo> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=edubuntu-server&searchon=names&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
[12:51] <salleschool> Hello
[12:52] <highvoltage> hello
[12:52] <salleschool> I've installed edubuntu 6.06
[12:52] <salleschool> I can open thin client
[12:53] <salleschool> but when I try to login in nothing happens
[12:53] <highvoltage> does it kick you back to the login screen?
[12:54] <highvoltage> if you have changed the IP address on the server, you need to run...
[12:54] <salleschool> yes
[12:54] <highvoltage> egh... i keep forgetting the command. it's something like update-ssh-keys
[12:54] <highvoltage> just a few secs... i'm booting up my ltsp server
[12:54] <salleschool> ok
[12:54] <ogra> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
[12:55] <highvoltage> that's it :)
[12:55] <salleschool> thanks
[12:55] <salleschool> I'm going to try it again
[12:59] <salleschool> Yeah, it's working
[12:59] <salleschool> ok, another one
[01:00] <salleschool> is there any programme for configure the thin clients?
[01:00] <salleschool> I've got problem with one screen
[01:01] <salleschool> It's must be the resolution
[01:02] <salleschool> or the vga
[01:03] <ogra> that happens usually if the monitors DDC BIOS doesnt report its values right, is that a very old monitor ?
[01:03] <salleschool> maybe
[01:04] <salleschool> I'm going to change the monitor, 
[01:04] <salleschool> so i'll know if that's the problem or the vga
[01:04] <ogra> and the vga card will nneed at least 2M video memory to get a decent resolution at 24bit colordepth
[01:05] <salleschool> Yes, the vga is an ATI one with 8mb
[01:05] <highvoltage> salleschool: if you want to force a colourdepth  or resolution on that client, you can do it in the lts.conf file: http://www.edubuntu.org/ThinClientConfig
[01:05] <ogra> if changing the monitor doesnt work and its the vga card, try setting the colordept to 16bit
[01:05] <highvoltage> you'll need something like X_MODE_0 = 800x600 and X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16
[01:06] <ogra> highvoltage, wrong :)
[01:06] <ogra> X_MODE isnt respected at all ....
[01:06] <highvoltage> ah right, that explains why we took it out :)
[01:06] <ogra> you can only influence it by setting hsync and vertrefresh
[01:06] <highvoltage> eek
[01:07] <ogra> get the values for the monitor and add them in lts.conf :)
[01:07] <ogra> its not harder than setting X_MODE if you have the values
[01:08] <ogra> but i agree, its a pity that our xserver doesnt allo preseeding that value
[01:08] <ogra> i hope to address that with mdz in edgy, we plan to rewrite the X autodetection (or at least start with it, i dont belive thats possible to be done in one release)
[01:10] <highvoltage> that would be nice. since it might allow for a smoother startup as well.
[01:19] <salleschool> ogra> its not harder than setting X_MODE if you have the values ?
[01:19] <salleschool> How?
[01:19] <salleschool> I haven't changed the monitor
[01:20] <salleschool> I think it's a lot of work and I must use that one
[01:20] <salleschool> because it working under other system
[01:20] <ogra> you set them in lts.conf in a specific section for the client (as you would do for X_MODE)
[01:20] <salleschool> The monitor es a SAMTRON
[01:20] <salleschool> 50-60hz
[01:23] <salleschool> so, instead of 800x600 I must write 50-60hz?
[01:23] <ogra> nope
[01:23] <salleschool> :-(
[01:23] <ogra> you need to set the values for X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH instead of setting X_MODE
[01:24] <ogra> but first you need to find the values your monitor is capable tzo do
[01:24] <ogra> 50-60Hz is only one of them
[01:24] <salleschool> and the other?
[01:25] <ogra> its your monitor, no idea
[01:25] <ogra> usually these values are in the technical data of the handbook
[01:25] <ogra> google might also be helpful if you search for the exact model name and number
[01:25] <salleschool> that's a good idea
[01:26] <salleschool> I'm going to try
[01:26] <ogra> you set the values like X_HORZSYNC = 34-120 (omit things like Hz or Mhz)
[01:26] <mhz> me?
[01:27] <mhz> :D
[01:27] <ogra> :P
[01:29] <mhz> * Good News: Congregacion Maria Auxiliadora -a catholic congregation and keeper of many schools in Chile, has announced its decision to migrate/implement computer labs mainly with Gnu/Linux into all his schools all over Chile (over 10 schools, about 3.000 students!)
[01:30] <mhz> of course, they will receive a special invitation to FET Chile :p and get a special Edubuntu demo
[01:30] <ogra> all: in case the next person comes in asking "how do i install ltsp on (k)ubuntu ?" the answer is here, please point people to: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall (and no ITS NOT ENOUGH to just install the edubuntu-server package to get ltsp running)
[01:31] <mhz> hehehhe
[01:31] <ogra> just to avoid all the breakage out there, please use that wikipage if helping, thanks 
[01:31] <mhz> ogra: roger that!
[01:31] <ogra> thanks :)
[01:31] <mhz> ogra: that is for all 'falvours' but Edubuntu?
[01:32] <ogra> yes
[01:32] <mhz> (just to make sure my english understanding was ok)
[01:32] <ogra> and xubuntu if you instll in ltsp mode
[01:32] <mhz> okis
[01:32] <ogra> the ltsp setup for edubuntu and xubuntu happens in the CD installer
[01:33] <ogra> if you just install edubuntu-server the complete setup is missing
[01:33] <ogra> (on a ubuntu or kubuntu i mean indeed)
[01:33] <mhz> oh, okis, you got me confused for about 5 secs
[01:34] <ogra> well, i saw you, lucasvo, and highvoltage suggesting to people they should just install edubuntu-server ... that will give them a hard time, since they dont know how to set it up :)
[01:35] <mhz> ogra: but then, if xubuntu ltsp happens in the installer.. oh, you mean... "if you want LTSP working from xubuntu fresh install, use the xubuntu-install .iso" ?
[01:35] <ogra> xubuntu has a installoption with ltsp
[01:35] <mhz> ogra: I am guilty as charged
[01:35] <ogra> in the CD menu
[01:35] <highvoltage> ogra: i never suggested that!
[01:35] <ogra> i dont want to blame anyone :)
[01:35] <mhz> hehehe
[01:36] <ogra> highvoltage, you did, even in #ltsp :)
[01:36] <mhz> it is ok, we'll all die someday, highvoltage 
[01:36] <highvoltage> i honestly don't remember that... but i can let it go...
[01:36] <highvoltage> mhz: on a long enough timeline, the survival rate of anything is zero
[01:36] <ogra> two or three days ago, i read it in the backlog
[01:37] <mhz> ogra: so, in the xubuntu case, (this was my confussion), users still need to be pointed to https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall ?
[01:37] <mhz> highvoltage: heheh, lol
[01:37] <ogra> mhz, if they didnt use the ltsp option during install, yes
[01:37] <highvoltage> ogra: i still don't believe you. someone must have heavily drugged me or something if i did say that, since i can't think why i would have said that.
[01:37] <mhz> jsgotangco: when is due date for newsletter?
[01:38] <highvoltage> i might have said ltsp-server-standalone...
[01:38] <ogra> highvoltage, it might also have been not edubuntu-server but ltsp-server, but you didnt tell him to run ltsp-build-client 
[01:38] <ogra> yes
[01:38] <ogra> that was the moment where i thought about creating that wikipage ...
[01:39] <ogra> (i'm tired as well to type in the two sentences you need to set it up though)
[01:39] <ogra> so that wikipage should help :)
[01:39] <jsgotangco> mhz: ?
[01:39] <jsgotangco> mhz: ahh
[01:39] <mhz> ogra: yeah, sure. I rephrase your words then: ONLY if you are using xubuntu (ltsp option) or edubuntu install, you'll endup with a sane ltsp install. IF you use any 'standard' flavor install, you need to still look into https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall 
[01:39] <jsgotangco> mhz: thursday
[01:39] <ogra> mhz, its a wiki :) feel free
[01:39] <mhz> jsgotangco: hi, and thx. 
[01:40] <jsgotangco> mhz: but there's not much action after release so it might be short saying "hey we're out download me now"
[01:43] <mhz> jsgotangco: hmmm, how about including some tips already living on wiki pages about Edubuntu? Like, for example, the EdubuntuViaNetBoot
[01:43] <salleschool> I'm still here, looking for the  X_VERTREFRESH
[01:43] <jsgotangco> mhz: that would be a good idea
[01:43] <mhz> jsgotangco: I already tested that installation method for Dapper
[01:43] <ogra> there is a wikipage called EdubuntuViaNetBoot ??
[01:44] <mhz> heheh, yeah
[01:44] <jsgotangco> does it work?
[01:44] <mhz> yup
[01:44] <mhz> with dapper, 100%
[01:45] <ogra> jsgotangco, thats waht i suspect whats missing
[01:46] <ogra> ?
[01:46] <jsgotangco> i feel its like a gnome wannabee
[01:46] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:46] <ogra> yeah, but does it everything you are used to onn the desktop ?
[01:47] <jsgotangco> it doesn't have OOo even though the install still ate 1GB+ default
[01:47] <ogra> ooo is on the CD
[01:47] <ogra> optional
[01:48] <jsgotangco> but 1.3GB?
[01:48] <ogra> i think ubuntu-base takes already 700 or 800 M
[01:48] <jsgotangco> it seems to hvae filled up with gnome stuff to be directly compatible
[01:48] <ogra> i thought they rewrote all the gnome stuff ....
[01:48] <jsgotangco> or reusable
[01:49] <ogra> we have such ugly things like evince-gtk through that
[01:49] <mhz> indeed
[01:49] <jsgotangco> mhz: i dunno im not convinced with this
[01:49] <mhz> it was meant to be user-friendly and ready for ubuntu-end users
[01:50] <jsgotangco> mhz: some elements are fast as expected like thunar but that's an app
[01:50] <mhz> jsgotangco: sure, they said "let's not convince jsgotangco!"
[01:50] <mhz> :p
[01:50] <jsgotangco> lol
[01:50] <mhz> jsgotangco: yeah, I did feel/remember XFCE default was faster
[01:51] <mhz> but, XFCE default was not convincing enough for users like my dad... and that is a big issue
[01:51] <jsgotangco> hence the gnome-like hack?
[01:52] <mhz> esp. when you have old machines for windows extreme end-users (just double click users)
[01:52] <mhz> jsgotangco: i guess
[01:52] <mhz> my dad could use GNOME (breezy) for a while and it was stil a shocking experience. ( I believe I suffered more than he did :D )
[01:53] <mhz> It was a horryfing experience everytime he asked for "my support"
[01:53] <jsgotangco> mhz: probably because lack of time, even the menu wasn't merged...xfce and gnome settings are separate menu entries
[01:53] <mhz> esp. considering he was sure his laptop was running lot slower (indeed, because he uses lot of office files)
[01:53] <jsgotangco> making it feel KDE'sh
[01:54] <mhz> jsgotangco: hmm, good point
[01:54] <jsgotangco> Network isn't corrent, should be Internet since it shows net apps heh
[01:54] <jsgotangco> s/corrent/correct
[01:54] <mhz> jsgotangco: however, for my dad, xubuntu should run faster than his experience with ubuntu default
[01:54] <jsgotangco> it sure does load a bit faster
[01:55] <mhz> jsgotangco: re menus/ you are right. I'll pass it on nomed (Daniele Favara)
[01:55] <jsgotangco> it could be merged or have xfce settings as a submenu under system
[01:56] <mhz> however, so far, xubuntu seems best option for highvoltage and me (AFAIK) if we need to set an edubuntu-lighter option, even when I know, the best performance I have had, is still under Fluxbox :(
[01:56] <jsgotangco> yes
[01:57] <jsgotangco> probably a little more hack in the menu structure will make it cleaner
[01:58] <highvoltage> fluxbox isn't very userfriendly, or even featureful though :/
[01:58] <mhz> Sometimes, I just wish I had modern hardware (and bootable media laptop!!!) but on the other hand, I feel that if I did, I wouln't be "forced" to help those people with older hardware.. so I just relax and deal with it ;)
[01:58] <highvoltage> mhz: does fluxbox even have a tool for mounting a usb disk?
[01:58] <ogra> highvoltage, nautilus :)
[01:58] <mhz> highvoltage: yeah, you can use some apps. for that, indeed
[01:59] <highvoltage> yeah but running nautilus under fluxbox defeats the purpose :)
[01:59] <mhz> highvoltage: and no gnome dependant
[01:59] <highvoltage> the current way that the world is creating computers is non-sustanable
[01:59] <spacey> they have `mount` right
[01:59] <highvoltage> we use over 250 tons worth of material to build computers every single day
[01:59] <ogra> spacey, hooray, and xterm :)
[02:00] <mhz> highvoltage: however, as you said, unless we put LOTS of efforts on setting Fluxbox, users may still feel xubuntu is closer to their concept of user friendly
[02:00] <spacey> ogra: yeh:)
[02:00] <jsgotangco> but the design goals of fluxbox ain't ordinary users
[02:00] <highvoltage> which means that, 3 to 5 years from now, those will have to be trashed in similar ammounts
[02:00] <mhz> highvoltage: the prob. i see for fluxbox is that it will require constant "be there" tweaking ans setting.
[02:01] <highvoltage> xfce has done a great job of getting all the 'minimum' features in so far, while keeping it small. it's still not as mature as gnome or kde, but they're certainly getting better.
[02:01] <highvoltage> mhz: with enough 3rd party desktop and launcher tools, i can see that it might be friendly enough. i'd still not be comfortable with it though :)
[02:02] <jsgotangco> no no fluxbox plesae
[02:02] <jsgotangco> don't even think about it
[02:02] <jsgotangco> xfce is good enough
[02:02] <salleschool> Thanks a lot everybody
[02:02] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: mhz is already doing :)
[02:02] <salleschool> I must go
[02:02] <mhz> highvoltage: OF COURSE I do agree with you. Subtainable development won't happen if we keep on consuming new hardware and getting rid of "prvious-still-very-usable" one.
[02:02] <highvoltage> bye salleschool. drop by again :)
[02:02] <ogra> salleschool, did you find the values
[02:02] <ogra> ?
[02:02] <salleschool> nope
[02:03] <ogra> try to find the handbook 
[02:03] <salleschool> I'll try later
[02:03] <mhz> salleschool: maybe email ML
[02:03] <salleschool> now I have another problem
[02:03] <mhz> salleschool: someone might already have same issues
[02:03] <salleschool> in another pc i can login in but after that
[02:03] <salleschool> i obtenig only a logo
[02:04] <salleschool> the green one with the world
[02:04] <ogra> mhz, he has the solution already, he's just missing the hsync/vrefresh values for his monitor
[02:05] <salleschool> Yes, I have the solution for the one qith the samtron monitor
[02:05] <ogra> salleschool, did you install sabayon by any chance ? 
[02:05] <salleschool> sabayin?
[02:05] <salleschool> sorry
[02:05] <salleschool> sabayon?
[02:05] <ogra> ok, seems you didnt
[02:05] <ogra> :)
[02:05] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: i got some ubuntu laptop stickers from a friend i thought they were as think as the usual laptop stickers hehehe but nice
[02:06] <highvoltage> :)
[02:06] <salleschool> may I install sabayon?
[02:06] <mhz> jsgotangco: Fluxbos is inevitablity (or "we can't help the fact of...") the lighter desktop and best performance I have tried for edubuntu-server. However, as I said, if it is to provide a solution for many users... I still doub it, though DamnSmall linux has done great job in presentation. So far, xubuntu is my 1st choice, Wmaker my second, Fluxbox my third. But the last 2 options will require too much work beacuse everytime a user wants to tweak or change d
[02:06] <mhz> efaults, they may not work as friendly as xfce or gnome.
[02:07] <jsgotangco> mhz: windowmaker goes way way down in usability for most users
[02:07] <mhz> ogra: yup, but maybe other users have had same monitor issue for same monitor model :)
[02:07] <ogra> salleschool, forget about sabayon for now ... look in ~/.xsession-errors of the user you tried to log in with
[02:07] <ogra> (the one that didnt get past the splash screen)
[02:08] <salleschool> ok, defintly my wife is calling
[02:08] <salleschool> see you later
[02:08] <ogra> ciao
[02:08] <salleschool> bye, and thanks
[02:09] <mhz> jsgotangco: i know. I know, believe me. But for a school, IF teachers want something real light they can use and need no further settings, jus the ones we provide, "maybe" it is an option we can consider. Why? because they may not have enough 'horse-power' to implement xubuntu. still.
[02:09] <mhz> jsgotangco: "we provide" = they say what they need and how they need it, we do provide.
[02:11] <jsgotangco> mhz: i still don't get it, its a server, provide a powerful server and gnome will run on it nonetheless or even xfce..something more lighter is asking too much imo...as software development doesn't always consider old hardware harsh reality
[02:11] <ogra> mhz, we wont support 386 servers with 16Mb ram ... so there is no real need for fluxbox, if someone wants fluxbox he can always install it from universe
[02:11] <mhz> that is why I do not like the idea of wmaker or fluxbox because it will require we provide 'glove-made' solutions to each school school
[02:12] <mhz> ogra: jsgotangco: guys, I have said I like the xubuntu idea better even when it is not as fast as XFCE default :)
[02:14] <jsgotangco> mhz: how do you think performance will be if we're still stuck with kdeedu
[02:14] <ogra> and openoffice ...
[02:15] <highvoltage> those are things you won't even consider running if you're going as far as to run fluxbox, imho
[02:15] <jsgotangco> we'll be struggling for kb again in the next few months lol
[02:15] <mhz> BUT, please do not forget that at least in Chile (not sure about highvoltage's experience in Southafrica), MANY schools have PII or just have nothing at all to implement a lab, and getting a "decent" server  to them may not a trivial task. We (I do) have to deal with PC's gotten as gift from people who throw them away. And if we get a server, it may usually be between a 800 MHz processor with 512 MB of RAM and a 2 GHz with 1 GB of RAM, for about 10 to 20 clie
[02:15] <mhz> nts :)
[02:16] <jsgotangco> mhz: its not different in my country, the concept of networked lab here is even non existent ;)
[02:16] <jsgotangco> (for public schools that is)
[02:16] <highvoltage> same situation here, too.
[02:16] <mhz> jsgotangco: indeed.
[02:16] <highvoltage> our schools are just lucky that sabdfl sponsored them.
[02:17] <jsgotangco> but again, we're fighting against the speed of software devlopment and the resources it requires
[02:17] <spacey> my primary school only had two 486's. :)
[02:17] <spacey> for 100 kids
[02:17] <mhz> so, with crappy situations like that, yeah, my best option is still xubuntu, but IF needed, I may have to still consider fluxbox (beautiful as DamnSamllLinux look-and-feel settings)
[02:17] <spacey> ofcourse that is quite a while back :)
[02:19] <jsgotangco> so yeah win98 is still relevant for a major part of the global computer population :)
[02:19] <mhz> the huge prob. I see is that considering fluxbox (at least in my case) it may end up generating schools Mauricio-dependent any time they need to install ans configure stuff, to even have icons on desktop, and stuff like that.
[02:19] <highvoltage> my primary school didn't even have computers for the kids :/
[02:19] <highvoltage> mhz: i think in your case, the best bet is to not use thin clients
[02:20] <highvoltage> use a small server, and install xubuntu on all the machines.
[02:20] <mhz> My 1st hands on keyboard was when I was 21 years old !
[02:20] <highvoltage> perhaps have an automated intall on the server, that the clients can boot into
[02:20] <highvoltage> to keep down on maintenance
[02:20] <highvoltage> then use ldap or nis or something with nfs to store the files on the server
[02:20] <jsgotangco> you really need a server and a good switch to make things happen
[02:20] <highvoltage> xubuntu runs quite ok on a PII/300 with 64MB RAM
[02:21] <highvoltage> then you just use epiphany with gnumeric and abiword
[02:21] <mhz> highvoltage: yeah, I have thought so, it is just that I can't close to the LTSP option because I have been struggling to make the RecicLab project come true. And if that happens, I may have some 'horse-power' for server-older clients solution
[02:22] <highvoltage> yep. nothing wrong with starting out small though.
[02:22] <mhz> indeed
[02:23] <mhz> so far, my omplementations are usually 1 GHz + 512 MB of RAM server + light workstations (installed OS) mounting /home at server side
[02:24] <mhz> and NO openoffice :)
[02:24] <mhz> just abiword and gnumeric and few other apps.
[02:24] <pygi> hey mhz :)
[02:24] <mhz> well, gcompris is becoming a 'default
[02:24] <mhz> pygi: hey!
[02:24] <mhz> BTW, are we all on sunday?
[02:25] <mhz> or monday anyone?
[02:25] <pygi> mhz, some are monday probably
[02:25] <jsgotangco> its 10pm sunday
[02:25] <mhz> oooh
[02:25] <jsgotangco> err
[02:25] <jsgotangco> 8:30PM rather
[02:25] <pygi> 14:24pm
[02:25] <jsgotangco> still a bit woozy
[02:25] <highvoltage> mhz: still sunday here
[02:25] <mhz> jsgotangco: bless you!
[02:26] <mhz> ;p
[02:27] <mhz> hehe, it is funny.. when I read english I pronouce the sounds in my head and many times I think of a thing that is not what it is written. Example: "had flu 2 days ago" when I pronounced it iwas "had flew 2 days ago" so I had to re-process the ideas and get just the correct one :D
[02:28] <jsgotangco> you need industrial-strength brain training!
[02:28] <mhz> lol
[02:29] <mhz> jsgotangco: somehow, we all are
[02:29] <jsgotangco> lol
[02:29] <highvoltage> ;)
[02:30] <jsgotangco> mhz: he will probably reconsider if you start collecting your countries virgins and lock them up with him when he arrives
[02:30] <jsgotangco> s/countries/country's
[02:31] <mhz> highvoltage: can't convince you even if I get you a sexy + clever + grown up + geek woman ?
[02:31] <jsgotangco> haha
[02:31] <ogra> a gree woman ? 
[02:31] <ogra> *greek
[02:31] <jsgotangco> techno pimp
[02:31] <mhz> LOL
[02:32] <mhz> highvoltage: so geek that she could even tweak her own kernel!!!
[02:32] <mhz> just imagine that!
[02:32] <mhz> :D
[02:32] <jsgotangco> sounds boring
[02:32] <mhz> oh, c'mon, jsgotangco ! It all depends on what she does to kill the 'compiling' time :D
[02:33] <highvoltage> mhz: if you take the 'geek' part out, and change it to hacker, i'll seriously consider it
[02:33] <highvoltage> mhz: but if she has a beard, the deal is off
[02:33] <mhz> rofl!!!
[02:33] <ogra> jsgotangco, well, it has uts charm if you can chat with your GF by ICQ while sitting on the same table 
[02:33] <ogra> *its
[02:33] <mhz> lol
[02:33] <highvoltage> ogra: we've all been there
[02:33] <ogra> :)
[02:35] <jsgotangco> yeahh
[02:35] <mhz> highvoltage: hmm, but the beard has a 'charming' point :)
[02:35] <jsgotangco> you literally send a message "across the miles"
[02:35] <ogra> heh
[02:37] <jsgotangco> ogra: you still use ICQ?
[02:37] <mhz> highvoltage: I know! you could slap her every time she makes a mistake on the terminal and gets a 'beep' :D
[02:37] <jsgotangco> strip terminal?
[02:37] <ogra> well, i didnt open my gaim since 6 months or so, but there are some isq users i know, yes
[02:37] <highvoltage> heh
[02:37] <ogra> *icq
[02:37] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: lol!
[02:41] <pygi> ogra, this is better then gaim ;)
[02:41] <pygi> http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/8776/famasite4ee.png
[02:41] <mhz> well, guys, nice talking to you but now I gotta get back to relaity and make breakfast for family ;(
[02:42] <ogra> well, since i usually never use any messenger and gaim is installed by default AND im a lazy person ...
[02:42] <lucasvo> pygi: well the plugins are annoying
[02:42] <lucasvo> users normally are lazy
[02:43] <pygi> lucasvo, ah, well :)
[02:43] <highvoltage> developers too (which is a good thing)
[02:43] <lucasvo> so they don't want to download the plugins
[02:43] <pygi> lucasvo, yes, yes :)
[02:43] <lucasvo> Imagine an ubuntu with a minimal kernel which requires the users to download and install loads of modules
[02:44] <pygi> lucasvo, that's nice ;)
[02:45] <pygi> I don't see anything wrong with it :P
[02:47] <highvoltage> that's not much different from the current kernel, is it?
[02:47] <mhz> ogra: then what you use for IRC?
[02:47] <highvoltage> 16:47 [freenode]  CTCP VERSION reply from ogra: xchat 2.6.1 Ubuntu
[02:48] <mhz> jsgotangco: I have just updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuViaNetBoot
[02:48] <pygi> mhz, gaim is just bad :P
[02:48] <mhz> jsgotangco: please let me know if it will fit for newsletter
[02:49] <ogra> mhz, a decent known to work chat client indeed, not a raped IM client
[02:49] <mhz> else, I can wiki new material today just for the newsletter
[02:49] <ogra> ;)
[02:49] <mhz> ogra: yeah, which
[02:49] <mhz> ?
[02:49] <ogra> see above, highvoltage told you
[02:50] <mhz> highvoltage: duh! sorry
[02:50] <mhz> ogra: and it was less "lazy" to just type in 'xchat' :D
[02:50] <ogra> gah, why do people still use apt-get dist-upgrade ... nobiody reads the upgarde notes :/
[02:51] <mhz> ogra: nope, unfortunatelly, nope
[02:51] <mhz> maybe, sending a DO NOT USE dist-upgrade email to ML may help
[02:52] <ogra> well, its their own fault not to read DapperUpgrades
[02:52] <purserj> damn now you tell me. I dist-upgraded over a month ago
[02:52] <ogra> they'll just be missing some old stuff being removed etc ... the stuff update-amanger cares for now
[02:52] <highvoltage> in all honesty, i didn't read the update notes and also used apt-get dist-upgrade on some of my machines
[02:53] <ogra> well, there is stuff beyond apt-get that needs to be done now, update-manager cares for that
[02:53] <mhz> highvoltage: i do use it BUT only after fresh install of new releases
[02:53] <highvoltage> ogra: what's the best command line tool to use to upgrade?
[02:53] <highvoltage> ah i see. interesting.
[02:53] <jsgotangco> well it seemed to hose our ubuntu locoteam server after someone dist-upgraded
[02:54] <jsgotangco> ;)
[02:54] <mhz> highvoltage: the best? to $ sudo read wiki
[02:54] <mhz> :p
[02:54] <ogra> still dist-upgrade, but its not as clean as using update-manager 
[02:54] <ogra> it leaves old cruft behind
[02:54] <ogra> i.e. you will have both screensaver installed if you only use apt-get
[02:54] <jsgotangco> in aptitude we trust?
[02:54] <mhz> jsgotangco: hheheh
[02:55] <highvoltage> aptitude is too clever for me. it keeps doing things i didn't ask it to do :)
[02:56] <ogra> i dont know anybody in the distro team who even uses aptitude
[02:56] <mhz> highvoltage: I only used it once...it wiped out all my /
[02:56] <mhz> highvoltage: so, now there are 2 things I hate: automounting stuff + aptitude :D
[02:58] <mhz> highvoltage: the only possibility I may like automounting is if default setting is to aske me How/Where/Who can use it questions
[02:59] <highvoltage> mhz: in gnome, you can set a lot of that stuff in System -> Preferences -> Removable Drives and Media
[02:59] <highvoltage> (me is getting better at using the gui tools again)
[03:02] <mhz> highvoltage: I saw those options but only after getting your tip last friday. But for me, it is not wise at all. I mean, if default 'mount' command lets every client-user in LTSP env. (in same Group) access to mounted PenDrives, Why would 'autmounting' work differently. It makes no sense to me.
[03:02] <jsgotangco> well i gotta go
[03:03] <jsgotangco> have a good sunday all
[03:04] <mhz> esp. considering that 'mount' has traditionally be the option for many users, and therefore, they are used to think (like me) "well, it is weired! I have this pendrive already mounted, all users belong to my group and they can't read it? What is I am doing wrong?"
[03:05] <mhz> so, IMHO, automounting defaults are not wise
[03:05] <mhz> at least not for Edubuntu
[03:05] <mhz> ogra: what do you think?
[03:06] <ogra> ?
[03:06] <mhz> about my "automounting" issue
[03:09] <ogra> put the device in fstab
[03:09] <ogra> give it the right mount options and your prob is solved
[03:10] <ogra> pmount is intended to provide secure per user mounting, which is exactly the right behavior we'll use for localdev support in ltsp, if you want systemwide mounting, use a systemwide setup (fszab)
[03:10] <ogra> *fstab
[03:11] <mhz> ogra: basically, default 'edubuntu automounting' option mounts Pendrive but it is allowed only for current user (the one inserting the pendrive at the server) so all clients do see it on their desktops BUT are not allowed to access it (they bleong to same group).  If I umount it, then moun it 'manually' (as I had always had) with $mount /dev/sda1  /mnt/PenDrive , ALL users immediately can access to it 
[03:11] <ogra> yes, thats what i said in my last sentence
[03:12] <ogra> use fstab (which doesnt use pmount)
[03:12] <mhz> but ogra, do you think it is logical? I mount it manually, with no extra arguments, just 'mount' and everyone is happy. When pmount works, everyone sees it on desktop but can't access?
[03:13] <ogra> sure that logical, you compare two different processes with two different purposes, pmount is the right way for single user mounting, fstasb is the right way for system wide mounting
[03:14] <mhz> ogra: right, in Edubuntu, we are talking about LTSP, therefore, system wide :)
[03:14] <ogra> if you want that, use an fstab entry
[03:15] <mhz> ehehhe, it seems you are not getting my idea. LTSP = sytem wide, for teachers ease of mind (default)
[03:15] <ogra> edgy ltsp != systemwide at all 
[03:15] <ogra> since we'll have local device support there
[03:15] <mhz> therefore pmount is good it tacher (usually wiuth access to server) can mount stuff and by default, students read it
[03:16] <ogra> just add an fstab entry
[03:16] <mhz> ogra: yeah, I know edgy will.
[03:16] <mhz> I am just saying that in dapper we do not support local device and I understand.
[03:17] <ogra> yes, and i say that the tool used doe the task right ...
[03:17] <ogra> *does
[03:17] <ogra> use the other tool if you want the other task
[03:18] <mhz> What is not logical to me is that a simple action (that afaik, all ubuntu and debian and other distro users are used to) of mounting issuing 'mount' command should give similar results when using pmount default settings in an Edubuntu env.
[03:19] <mhz> or, just disable pmount as default option.
[03:19] <ogra> use mount if you want system wide acces, use (personal)mount if you want only personal acces
[03:19] <mhz> All my testings are from a teacher perspective (end-user)
[03:19] <mhz> lol
[03:19] <mhz> teachers do use what we provide by default
[03:20] <ogra> teachers will be able to copy over the data 
[03:21] <mhz> and they will invest (like a did, precious minutes, about 45) to realize it was nothing bad with my pendrive, nor my system, nor my groups privileges, etc... just that pmount is enabled with options I do not need (as a classroom/lab teacher)
[03:21] <ogra> its not possible to use mount without root access so its not possible to just replace pmount
[03:21] <mhz> oh, good point....
[03:22] <ogra> just add it to the fstab 
[03:22] <ogra> put in the right options and you are fine
[03:23] <ogra> (user= and umask should be in the options line)
[03:24] <mhz> ogra: hmm, when you think of edubuntu, do you see a techer admin of a Lab? if so, he'll know how to use sudo. So, any chance, edubuntu pmount default asks the teacher, "do you want to mount this 'system wide'? If so, use 'sudo mount' ...blablah"?
[03:25] <mhz> using fstab is the right option, indeed but is more agressive than 'sudo mount' or 'pmount asking what to do'
[03:25] <highvoltage> mhz: in most cases, i think it's handy for users to be able to save their files to storage they have brought with them
[03:25] <ogra> nope
[03:25] <ogra> and be save that nobody else accesses them ...
[03:26] <ogra> s/save/sure/
[03:26] <mhz> highvoltage: sure! but even AFTER I did that, users could not have access to my files :)
[03:26] <ogra> which is the intended purpose
[03:27] <highvoltage> nee, ek dink ek gaan wag vir 'n nintendo wii
[03:27] <highvoltage> ugh... sorry, wrong channel :)
[03:27] <mhz> believe me guys, I tried to use GUI info from Menus and all. Only mounting manually (or doing fstab thing) worked. So, copying files to a dir did not help at all. 
[03:27] <mhz> I even tried using public_html ! :d
[03:28] <ogra> use fstab
[03:29] <mhz> ogra: /me sighs. yes, fstab is good option, so is umounting and mounting manually. But I remember you have always promoted we use GUI instead of command line (please dont tell me to use a GUI editor :D )
[03:29] <mhz> And so, I used only GUI info and menus for about 40 minutes
[03:29] <mhz> until I gave up and started a terminal to solve it
[03:30] <ogra> if you use fstab the disk will be in the computer:/// location, if yu used the right settings in fstab only the teacher can mount it but everybody else has access
[03:30] <mhz> hence, I say it is not logical if we have pmount enabled as default with no questions asked
[03:31] <mhz> just making that "question" would be very helpful
[03:31] <ogra> we wont add any questions to a backend tool ... use the system the right way and you get the right results
[03:31] <mhz> ogra: lol
[03:31] <mhz> okis, okis, okis
[03:31] <mhz> you win
[03:32] <mhz> then you are telling me to use command line
[03:32] <mhz> instead of GUI
[03:32] <mhz> to solve a very simple issue
[03:32] <ogra> i tell you to do do admin stuff as admin ... 
[03:33] <ogra> to solve a very simple issue
[03:33] <ogra> in the most simple way
[03:33] <mhz> ogra: man, believe me when I say "I understand why you say 'fstab' over 'mount' issue"
[03:34] <mhz> it is just that I always try to remember "edubuntu is aimed for a end-user-teacher to have an LTSP school lab.  env. out of the box"
[03:35] <mhz> Actually, that is why I understadn we have so much GUI in Edubuntu for admin stuff
[03:37] <ogra> mhz, see man pmuount, you could also write a wrapper to use the umask option
[03:37] <ogra> but that will indeed break pmounts security concept
[03:38] <mhz> ogra: okis, I wil write a mini wiki page for teachers then :)
[03:39] <ogra> how to make your system break on upgrades ? 
[03:39] <ogra> that may work if you know what youre doing, but please use the fstab way for howtos or help docs
[03:41] <mhz> ogra: hehehehe
[03:41] <mhz> ogra: sorry, I mean: wiki page to explain Teachers to edit fstab
[03:42] <mhz> ogra: I wouldn't explain anything else if you tell me is not 'secure'
[03:47] <ogra> and you mean putting wine on my hair will avoid that ? 
[03:47] <ogra> :)
[03:47] <mhz> ogra: LOL
[03:54] <kenweill> hello?
[03:56] <ogra> hi
[04:23] <pips1> I'm testing edubuntu-ltsp from the xubuntu ltsp install option. the server is am64 and the clients are i386, so I tried 'sudo rm -rf /opt/ltps/amd64 && ltsp-build-client --arch i386' but I get the error message 'E: debootstrab can only run as root'. Shouldn't it "just work" with 'sudo'?
[04:24] <pips1> Any suggestions much appreciated ...
[04:25] <spacey> pips1: && sudo
[04:25] <pips1> right!
[04:25] <spacey> an i guess its s/ltps/ltsp
[04:26] <pips1> cheers! (that was just a typo of mine in xchat)
[04:27] <spacey> k:)
[04:27] <pips1> ok, it's doing its magic now :)
[05:43] <pips1> xubuntu with ltsp is very promising... speed-wise it's great. but there are too many essential features missing still... it definitely has potential though
[05:52] <sallechool> Hello
[05:53] <pips1> hi
[05:53] <sallechool> Well, another problem
[05:53] <sallechool> I have logged into my thin client
[05:54] <sallechool> and after that I only obtain edubuntu's logo, the green one with the world
[05:54] <sallechool> any idea?
[05:55] <pips1> your thin client "hangs" at the logo and you don't get the desktop...?
[05:55] <sallechool> ya
[05:55] <sallechool> that is
[05:58] <pips1> hmm
[05:58] <pips1> I'll be right back
[06:11] <sallechool> I'll back
[06:15] <zaHa> does it make any differance if i use the edubuntu live cd to install, than the install cd? i am on the live cd now.
[06:25] <Rondom> zaHa: the install-cd is more stable
[06:25] <Rondom> and offers you more options
[06:25] <Rondom> if you've downloaded both it doesn't make a difference which cd you use
[06:25] <Rondom> the desktop-cd only makes thing simpler, but isn't 100% stable IMO
[06:29] <ogra> zaHa, the liveCD only installs a workstation, while the install CD installs a classroom server by default and has the workstation optionally
[06:31] <ogra> there are no stability issues with the liveCD, but it has pretty high minimal requirements
[06:54] <zaHa> thanks, so that means i can use the livecd?
[06:58] <salleschool> Hello
[06:59] <salleschool> I'm still working with my thin clients
[06:59] <salleschool> After login in the terminal hangs on the logo
[06:59] <salleschool> any ideas
[07:01] <zaHa> another question: when i download a .deb someone cant be installed because it is depending on another package, but how can i install all of them in Gdebi package installer?
[07:06] <salleschool> I'll back later
[07:07] <ogra> zaHa, what deb is that ? did you notice that ubuntu offers 17000 packages ? its very likely you can find what you look for in ubuntus universe or multiverse
[07:08] <ogra> salleschool, did you do what i suggested ?
[07:09] <salleschool> yes, but now I've got another problem because I can see the screen
[07:09] <salleschool> I wrote the user and password and then I only had the logo
[07:10] <ogra> yes, and did you look into the file i pointed you to ?
[07:10] <salleschool> Would you like to remember me the file? sorry :-(
[07:11] <ogra> "<ogra> salleschool, forget about sabayon for now ... look in ~/.xsession-errors of the user you tried to log in with"
[07:11] <ogra> it should tell you whats wrong
[07:12] <viv> Help please. I tried to install Dapper 6.06 today on a Dell that was running 6.06 Beta from a few weeks ago. It all looked fine, but failed after about 10 mins of "building CHROOT" and left a few blocks on a black screen. Help?
[07:12] <salleschool> I cannot find the file, where is it?
[07:12] <ogra> salleschool, in the home of the user
[07:13] <ogra> yay
[07:13] <ogra> hey pips1 
[07:13] <client1> hi ogra
[07:14] <ogra> viv, i guess you are not in the installer anymore so you could save the logfile of the ltsp chroot building ? 
[07:14] <ogra> viv, but it sounds like a badly burned media
[07:15] <viv> Im on another (ubuntu) machine - I checked the CDrom on the menu - it looked ok. I'll burn another and test...
[07:15] <ogra> oh, you are not talking about edubuntu ? 
[07:15] <viv> yes - it was edubuntu - for a small rural university :-)
[07:15] <ogra> ok
[07:16] <client1> salleschool: if your client user name is 'clientname' the file that ogra was talking about is in /home/clientname/.xsession-errors 
[07:16] <salleschool> I'm sorry but I cannot find such file
[07:17] <client1> salleschool: all files that start with a '.' (dot) are hidden in the graphical file managers by default...
[07:17] <salleschool> That means that something's missed
[07:17] <salleschool> ok
[07:17] <ogra> the file gets created *before* the splash screen you see is shown, so it must be there 
[07:18] <ogra> hit ctrl-H in the filemanager to make hidden files and directories shown
[07:19] <client1> salleschool: if you are using the grafical file manager ("nautilus") to look for that file, you can choose to show all files, including the hidden ones with the 'view' menu...
[07:19] <salleschool> ok
[07:19] <client1> salleschool: yes, or use ctrl-H like ogra said, that shows all hidden files :)
[07:20] <salleschool> I've got it, I'm reading now
[07:20] <ogra> look at the last lines
[07:21] <salleschool> ** (gnome-search-tool:25398): WARNING **: Cannot extract frame from the grid
[07:21] <salleschool> That is the last line
[07:21] <ogra> can you copy/paste the file to a pastebin service ? 
[07:21] <ogra> pastebin.ca or pastebin.com
[07:27] <client1> ogra: how does edubuntu's ltsp setup differ from the one that you can choose from the xubuntu alternate installer ? 
[07:27] <ogra> not at all
[07:27] <client1> oic
[07:27] <ogra> its the same set of packages and the same chroot builder routine
[07:28] <ogra> the desktop you log in is xfce though
[07:28] <ogra> thats the difference :)
[07:28] <client1> during the install process, you don't get asked the questions like during edubuntu's setup though, like ip address, gateway, nameservers, etc
[07:29] <client1> ?
[07:29] <ogra> yes that will likely break :)
[07:29] <ogra> since if the system gets the ip via dhcp that means you already run a dhcp server in your network :)
[07:30] <ogra> so the ltsp dhcp wont work 
[07:30] <ogra> (youo know the problem)
[07:30] <salleschool> I did http://pastebin.ca/61745
[07:31] <ogra> adding the ltsp bits was a last minute idea of the xubuntu folks, its great that the installer works at all
[07:32] <ogra> salleschool, is that an updated system ? 
[07:32] <client1> ogra: right. so since the xubuntu alternate ltsp setup doesn't "insist" on setting up its own dhcp server.
[07:32] <salleschool> I installed yesterday
[07:32] <salleschool> edubuntu 6.06
[07:32] <ogra> salleschool, also that doesnt look like the user logged in via ltsp, there is a gdm login procedure at the top of the file
[07:32] <ogra> (ltsp doesnt use gdm)
[07:33] <salleschool> Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed.
[07:33] <client1> salleschool: did you do a 'workstation' install for the "client" ?
[07:33] <ogra> salleschool, thats the network-manager spp
[07:34] <salleschool> I used etherboot but I didn't install anythin on the client
[07:34] <client1> salleschool: i see
[07:34] <ogra> #
[07:34] <ogra> (network-admin:25360): GnomeUI-WARNING **: While connecting to session manager:
[07:34] <ogra> #
[07:34] <ogra> Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed.
[07:35] <ogra> see the name of the app in the brackets, thats not the reason for the failing session, it looks rather like you tried to start the network app and mistyped your password
[07:36] <ogra> salleschool, did you change the icontheme of this user ? 
[07:36] <ogra> it looks like the panel has a major problem displaying a certain icon and crashes
[07:37] <salleschool> no, I haven't changed the icons
[07:38] <salleschool> can I try to change the default theme?
[07:38] <ogra> but in any case that doesnt look like an .xsession-errors from a ltsp login
[07:40] <ogra> can you try adding a new user and test if it works with that one ? 
[07:40] <client1> ogra: did you try out a xubuntu ltsp install on a machine yet?
[07:40] <ogra> nope
[07:41] <ogra> i'm happy i fifshed my edubuntu install tests in time, i'm not fond of seeing the installer for at least a week :)
[07:41] <ogra> *finished
[07:41] <salleschool> I added the new user this morning and the funny thing is that the xsessions.error it cannot be open
[07:43] <client1> the xcfe desktop is really fast... but i think there are a lot of rough edges with xubuntu+ltsp that need re-configuration by anyone who wants to use it.
[07:43] <ogra> yep, i'd guess so
[07:43] <client1> if you click on the 'shutdown' icon in the xfce login screen, it shuts down the server!?!
[07:43] <ogra> client1, known bug
[07:44] <client1> ah
[07:44] <ogra> ltsp was added way to late to xubuntu to integrate everything properly
[07:44] <client1> yeah
[07:44] <ogra> salleschool, does it not exist or are you not able to read it ? 
[07:46] <salleschool> It says gedit cannot find the codification of characters
[07:46] <ogra> hmm, does that user use a different language ? 
[07:47] <salleschool> Of, course, I'm Spanish
[07:47] <ogra> i mean a different one from the default system language ? 
[07:47] <ogra> :)
[07:48] <ogra> i guessed spanish by the text in your .xsession-errors :)
[07:48] <salleschool> I think that the logo is in English
[07:48] <salleschool> yes, right, it aks for an username an
[07:49] <ogra> so if you try to log in with the user you created this morning it doesnt work either ? 
[07:49] <ogra> (via ltsp)
[07:49] <salleschool> I didn't
[07:51] <ogra> try it
[07:51] <salleschool> I'm downloading languages
[07:52] <ogra> make sure to use the language tool from the system menu for that 
[07:52] <ogra> it cares that all necessary packages for a language are installed
[08:01] <salleschool> Ladies and gentlemen...
[08:01] <salleschool> It's working
[08:01] <ogra> yay
[08:01] <salleschool> Thaks
[08:01] <ogra> :)
[08:01] <salleschool> you are great
[08:01] <salleschool> But I have some bad news
[08:02] <salleschool> my school has got 25 different thin clients
[08:02] <salleschool> I hope not to have problems with them tomorrow
[08:02] <ogra> that shouldnt be a problem 
[08:02] <salleschool> well, it depends
[08:03] <salleschool> we have plenty of work here
[08:04] <salleschool> wait, wait a moment
[08:04] <ogra> you will probably have to do some setup for the keyboards, see https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPClientKeymap
[08:04] <salleschool> I have the screen but nothing happens
[08:05] <salleschool> I cannot open anythin at all
[08:05] <ogra> thats a bit vague, can you be more specific ? 
[08:06] <salleschool> Well I try to open firefox and it didn't
[08:07] <salleschool> I try to logo off and it doesn't
[08:07] <ogra> so the panel doesnt react on anything if you click on something ?
[08:08] <salleschool> that is
[08:08] <ogra> can you right click on the desktop and get a menu ?
[08:09] <salleschool> no, i can't
[08:09] <ogra> what kind of mouse is that ? 
[08:10] <salleschool> it's usb, Creative, two bottons and a wheel
[08:10] <ogra> (and are you sure it works usually and is not a hardware problem ?)
[08:11] <salleschool> It can move around the screen
[08:11] <salleschool> It works
[08:11] <ogra> yes, but it looks like the buttons dont work ... try unplugging and replugging it
[08:13] <salleschool> I have rebooted the terminal and I have changed the mouse
[08:13] <salleschool> Let's see
[08:17] <salleschool> I have the same problem that before
[08:17] <ogra> thats weird 
[08:17] <salleschool> When I rebooted I had the logo screen but
[08:17] <salleschool> after that nothing to do
[08:18] <ogra> did you log out properly ?
[08:18] <ogra> or did you simply hit the power switch of the terminal ?
[08:19] <salleschool> I pushed out the client with the Student Control Panel
[08:19] <ogra> ah, ok
[08:19] <ogra> thats really strange 
[08:20] <ogra> can you look if there are any processes for that user left running ?
[08:24] <salleschool> I'm going to shut doiwn the server
[08:24] <salleschool> I'll be back tomorrow
[08:24] <salleschool> Thaks a lot, see you soon
[08:25] <client1> where do I find the student control panel ?
[08:26] <client1> the infamous s-c-p ;-D
[08:27] <client1> ogra: ?
[08:32] <client1> ah, I see, s-c-p is not installed by default.
[08:34] <ogra> its in universe 
[08:34] <ogra> until its a bit more feature complete
[08:37] <client1> i just had a look at it. at the moment, you can just see cpu & mem usage per client and disconnect them...?
[08:39] <client1> what is that (greyed out) button on the right hand side (with a desktop and a plug) ?
[08:39] <ogra> well you should also see a process list
[08:39] <ogra> thats the vnc feature
[08:39] <ogra> its disabled but already implemented
[08:39] <client1> oh
[08:39] <client1> ic
[08:40] <ogra> the side on the terminal is missing
[08:40] <ogra> that needs some changes to x11vnc 
[08:40] <client1> the process list works fine
[08:41] <ogra> well, i want it to look like the one in the system monitor 
[08:41] <ogra> and a kill button for selected processes
[08:42] <ogra> so you can shut down the pupils solitaire game he secretly plays :)
[08:43] <client1> hehe
[08:43] <HedgeMage> lol
[08:44] <client1> If my wife had a pips1-control-panel, she would now shut down my pcs completely, and press the "help wife prepare dinner" button
[08:44] <ogra> hehe
[08:44] <client1> have a good evening! got to go. :)
[08:45] <ogra> enjoy your dinner :)
[08:45] <client1> thanks! cu
[10:13] <viv> Hi there, Im stuck! Edubuntu 6.06 install stops during CHROOT creation and displays a black screen with 2 white squares. Ogra suggested bad media, but I did an md5, and burned a new disk - no success. Any ideas welcome.
[10:14] <HedgeMage> :(
[10:14] <ogra> viv look on console 3 for errormessages 
[10:14] <HedgeMage> I'm not good with LTSP but poking ogra or someone might help
[10:14] <HedgeMage> aha, there he is
[10:15] <ogra> or save me /var/log/messages from the half installed system
[10:15] <viv> Edubuntu 6.06 beta works on the same box - a dell optiplex 170 L 2.8 GHz with 512MB ram and 40GB hdd
[10:15] <ogra> waht grephics card ? 
[10:16] <ogra> *graphics
[10:16] <viv> Ha! error message says generating locales...
[10:16] <viv> en_ZA.UTF-8 ... done
[10:17] <viv> en_US.UTF-8 ... done
[10:17] <viv> Generation complete
[10:17] <viv> Thats it...
[10:17] <viv> On board graphics I think
[10:19] <viv> oops - wrong messages - blush - Im installing 5.1o Breezy at the moment as a test - it's late.
[10:19] <viv> I'll revert with console messages in a while 
[10:20] <viv> Sorry - I am still a noob ;-)
[10:23] <ogra> i suspectz it happens during xserver install in the chroot
[10:28] <viv> Breezy edubuntu is installing packages. I'll check the graphics card once its up, and then re-install. My linksys router DHCP is on 192.168.2.1 - how best to set the network options so that I can be online but not damage the LTSP setup later - only 1 network card so far.
[10:29] <ogra> switch off the dhcp server on your router and use the one on the server
[10:30] <ogra> also see the gettingstarted doc from the channel /topic
[10:31] <viv> I need the Howto. there are other windows machines running on the linksys. I have been using a seperate network to test out LTSP.
[10:33] <ogra> well, then you have a problem, i dont know any way to teach a linksys dhcp server to serve netboot stuff
[10:34] <SWAT> any idea where I could get information about Ubuntu (not specifically Edubuntu)? I will probably give a course "Linux" after the summer and want to promote Ubuntu :-)
[10:34] <HedgeMage> SWAT: #ubuntu or www.ubuntu.com or distrowatch
[10:34] <ogra> if you have two dhcp servers in the same network the clients will have booting problems, depending on which server answers first
[10:35] <HedgeMage> ogra: shouldn't it be possible to tell the LTSP server to serv dhcp and dhcp only to the windoze boxen?
[10:35] <SWAT> HedgeMage, that was obvious :P I thought maybe someone in here would know if something like this already exists? 
[10:35] <ogra> HedgeMage, it will do that by default
[10:36] <HedgeMage> that might solve your problem then viv 
[10:36] <HedgeMage> SWAT: what kind of audience are you aiming for?
[10:36] <ogra> but if the network is physically parted it wont work
[10:36] <viv> OK, but can't I just set up DHCP detection at first while debugging, then take it off line and reconfigure the network card to a fixed IP for testing LTSP. The target site will get a second network card in the server.
[10:36] <HedgeMage> ogra: then I misunderstood... I thought viv said they were parted and she/he wanted to put them together
[10:37] <SWAT> HedgeMage, college beginner level (people who have very little or no experience with linux)
[10:37] <HedgeMage> SWAT: if it's still up, my old lug ( hoodlug.org ) should have my "intro to linux" program materials somewhere
[10:38] <HedgeMage> SWAT: it's very distro-neutral, so you'd have to adapt it slightly for ubuntu, but no huge deal there
[10:38] <ogra> viv, the ltsp server wont work with a dhcp server anywher on the net that serves the tftp info to the client (where to find the kernel etc)
[10:39] <viv> Ok I understand. But I was hoping to put the box online during installation to send error messages etc without rebuilding my home network (no ltsp at this testing stage)
[10:40] <ogra> you can switch stuff around as you like and if you have two NICs it wont be a problem to serve via dhcp on one NIC and to be your routers client on the other, but with only one NIC you need to use a dchp server that can serve the necessary info
[10:40] <viv> Then when it's up, remove the internet cable and plug in a hub with clients
[10:40] <SWAT> HedgeMage, thanks for the information (couldn't find anything), but now I know where I stand
[10:41] <ogra> that will work if you keep in mind that the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf needs to match your ip an dyou need to run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys after every IP change
[10:42] <ogra> and dont forget to restart the dhcp server in case you change /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
[10:44] <viv> ok. Ill just message you from this adjacent machine for now. Breezy is up with no problems. The graphics is 82865 Integrated Graphics device on the motherboard according to device manager.
[10:45] <viv> I'm going to shutdown and re-install dapper - watching console 3
[10:46] <ogra> note that the usual installer output is on console 4, only the ltsp part logs on 3
[10:47] <viv> thanks - I'll multiplex ;-)
[10:59] <viv> The last message was "setting up X-server.org" and then the screen failed as before - two little white squares. ctl-alt-f3 or -f4 do nothing. lucky I was watching!
[10:59] <viv> Is the data on console 3 saved in a log?
[10:59] <ogra> yes
[11:00] <ogra> /var/log/messages 
[11:00] <ogra> and in the installed system in /var/log/installer/messages
[11:00] <viv> But now the darned machine is dead - Ill try to use the repair system?
[11:01] <ogra> try installing a workstation, i'll guide you through the edubuntu-server install afterwards
[11:01] <viv> ok thanks
[11:16] <viv> cannel /topic
[11:16] <lucasvo> viv: just enter /topic
[11:16] <lucasvo> without the channell
[11:19] <viv> lucasvo: thanks. Ive read it now.
[11:20] <HedgeMage> SWAT: np
[11:23] <viv> ogra: Mmmm. the plot thickens. It has crashed in the same way. I didn't see the last message, but it was near the end - around setting up X-server :-(
[11:23] <viv> Machine is dead
[11:25] <viv> 2 white squares is all I have. Should I try the beta 6.06 again since it worked b4?
[11:25] <HedgeMage> I'd say yes.
[11:25] <HedgeMage> once you get it up and running, you can update the packages that need updating without doing a full re-install
[11:25] <HedgeMage> and thus not borking your X
[11:27] <viv> Hedgemage, borking my X is a new term, but very descriptive. Breezy install worked fine. Ogra, if you are still around, what's your opinion?
[11:29] <viv> Nature calls - back in a bit.
[11:30] <HedgeMage> viv: "bork" is a term of American origin, referencing a Judge Bork who was nominated to the US Supreme Court (our highest court) and touted as the next big thing, only to have his prospects shot down late in the vetting (investigaton and approval) proccess by our legislature... "bork" has since come to mean "getting to the brink of success and failing spectacularly"
[11:39] <viv> HedgeMage: very apt term.  I'll add it to my stash of strange facts immediately........ goes off to install Edubuntu 6.06 Beta again....
[11:39] <HedgeMage> hehe :D
[11:44] <viv> Surprise - After a power down the machine booted into edubuntu! 6.06 June release. It seems like it may have been a near Bork? What can I do to check if it all got installed (this was the workstation version but I want the LTSP server so I might try again and just crash throught the black screen if this install is good)
[11:57] <viv> I tried the messages in /var/log - but they are for the current session. Ogra said to try /var/log/installer/messages but it doesn't exist
[11:58] <HedgeMage> viv: interesting... the best I can say is to try using it and see if anything seems messed up
[12:02] <viv> HedgeMage: So - you conceed "a near Bork" is acceptable usage of the term? Where is the log from the install?
[12:02] <HedgeMage> I don't see why not. :)  
[12:02] <HedgeMage> hmmm... let me see if I can figure out where it is on my system
[12:03] <HedgeMage> viv: directory /var/logs/installer contains them
[12:03] <HedgeMage> it's more than one file