[12:36] <Linutur1> what is the default directory for apache?
[12:36] <Linutur1> for the web content?
[12:36] <infinity>  /var/www
[12:36] <Linutur1> thanks
[12:52] <Linutur1> what are the default credentials for the mysql database?
[12:52] <lionelp> Linuturk_NB: root without password
[12:52] <lionelp> on localhost *only*
[12:55] <Linuturk_NB> does anyone have a good tutorial for getting started on this preconfigured LAMP server? I just need to create a quick database
[12:56] <infinity> Except that would prevent the LAMP install from being noninteractive.
[12:56] <infinity> Pain.
[12:57] <Linuturk_NB> well, you have a short config for the apache side
[12:57] <Linuturk_NB> why not a quick password request on mysql?
[12:57] <Linuturk_NB> can I access mysql via terminal?
[12:58] <infinity> Err, what?
[12:58] <infinity> apache2 doesn't ask any questions on install.
[12:58] <Linuturk_NB> i used the ubuntu 6.06 LAMP server install, and it prompted some questions
[12:58] <infinity> Linuturk_NB: You can access it with "mysql -u root", yes.
[12:58] <infinity> Linuturk_NB: What questions were you asked?  It's certainly not designed to..
[12:59] <infinity> In fact, I can't even see how it would.
[12:59] <infinity> (The installer asks questions, like username/password, etc, but apache certainly doesn't...)
[12:59] <Linuturk_NB> it asked what type of enviroment I was using it in. Be that internet, local only, and a few things
[12:59] <Linuturk_NB> this was after the install was finished
[12:59] <Linuturk_NB> i believe
[12:59] <infinity> ...
[12:59] <neuralis> uh?
[01:00] <neuralis> if anything, that'd be presumably mail daemon configuration, not apache
[01:00] <infinity> That sounds more like postfix or exim4's deconf prompting.
[01:00] <neuralis> and we certainly aren't designed to ask those questions by default.
[01:00] <neuralis> infinity: exactly.
[01:00] <Linuturk_NB> eh, probably. I'm way off base sometimes
[01:00] <Linuturk_NB> I'm fairly new to this (been since 5.10) and I'm setting up a server now. go figure
[01:00] <infinity> But you would have had to actually explicitely install an MTA, we didn't force one on you. :)
[01:01] <infinity> (Though I was considering forcing one on the LAMP install, in the end I decided against it)
[01:01] <Linuturk_NB> mta?
[01:01] <Linuturk_NB> infinity, big dawg around here?
[01:01] <lionelp> mta stands for Mail Transfer Agent
[01:01] <infinity> MTA... Mail tranfer agent.... postfix, exim4, sendmail, etc.
[01:01] <lionelp> A mail server
[01:01] <Linuturk_NB> got it
[01:02] <Linuturk_NB> (three time over) :-P
[01:02] <infinity> No big dawgs..... I rule by a committee.
[01:02] <infinity> (... of 1)
[01:03] <infinity> neuralis: BTW, speaking of committee rule, you better have a mess of interesting stuff to discuss in Paris, or there'll be egg all over my face.
[01:03] <Linuturk_NB> so, i'm in the sql prompt. create database pointofsale; doesn't work. I'm following these instructions btw. http://www.phppointofsale.com/documentation/help.htm
[01:03] <neuralis> infinity: aye
[01:03] <infinity> Only 2 weeks to go.
[01:04] <Linuturk_NB> infinity: well, who is the printing guru for xfce? they need to change the default behavior of cups or add a nice gui like gnome did
[01:04] <infinity> mysql> create database pointofsale;
[01:04] <infinity> Query OK, 1 row affected (0.00 sec)
[01:04] <infinity> Works for me.
[01:04] <neuralis> infinity: i'll round up my notes shortly; i think there was a bunch of residual crap from breezy, and there's a bunch of new things to talk about
[01:04] <Linuturk_NB> mysql> create database pointofsale
[01:04] <Linuturk_NB>     -> create database pointofsale;
[01:04] <Linuturk_NB> ERROR 1064 (42000): You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'create database pointofsale' at line 2
[01:04] <Linuturk_NB> i did that
[01:04] <Linuturk_NB> silly me
[01:04] <infinity> Linuturk_NB: XFCE gurus are janimo, nomed, and some others.
[01:04] <Linuturk_NB> worked the second time
[01:05] <infinity> neuralis: Focus on achievable, but noticeable.
[01:05] <neuralis> Linuturk_NB: you didn't terminate the first line, so you actually issued the "create database pointofsalecreate database pointofsale;" query.
[01:05] <infinity> neuralis: 4.5 months is a very short cycle, so anything we do that's "whizzbang with low effort" wins.  (like the LAMP install was, for instance)
[01:06] <Linuturk_NB> yeah, new to this, like i said. i like this channel, not as "loud" as #ubuntu and you guys are friendlier
[01:06] <Linuturk_NB> thanks
[01:06] <neuralis> infinity: right. though the lamp install was very low-hanging fruit; i doubt we'll get as lucky again.
[01:06] <infinity> I can be a jerk, you've just not caught me on an off day yet.
[01:07] <infinity> neuralis: Oh, I could just duplicate that feat with several other "common server setups". P)
[01:07] <Linuturk_NB> if I changed the permissions of a file in /var/www/ do I have to restart apache before that will take effect? I've got a specific settings file that needs to be edited by other files
[01:07] <neuralis> Linuturk_NB: no, you don't.
[01:07] <infinity> neuralis: I suspect I'll have to anyway, after the press release that went out with my name on it, claiming that the "LAMP install was just the beginning of servers for idiots"
[01:07] <Linuturk_NB> i did chmod 755 on it
[01:07] <neuralis> infinity: hahah
[01:07] <neuralis> that's, er, unfortunate.
[01:08] <Linuturk_NB> hey, this LAMP install has saved me a lot of time
[01:08] <Linuturk_NB> i thank you
[01:08] <neuralis> Linuturk_NB: no it didn't. want a dirty little secret? it saved you exactly one line of typing.
[01:08] <Linuturk_NB> serious?
[01:08] <Linuturk_NB> o well
[01:08] <neuralis> very.
[01:08] <Linuturk_NB> it also saved me the time of figuring out what that one line of typing was
[01:08] <Linuturk_NB> that's a biggie
[01:09] <neuralis> that's true.
[01:09] <neuralis> infinity: well, i don't think we want to litter the boot menu with a bunch of common server setups. perhaps having a 'Common server install' option that pops up a 'mix and match your own components' screen in d-i?
[01:10] <infinity> neuralis: That smells a lot like resurrecting tasksel, which I'd considered.
[01:10] <infinity> neuralis: Besides, doing this in gfxboot kinda locks out serial installs.
[01:10] <Linuturk_NB> well, what I'd like to see is a light gui installed by default. be that fluxbox or xfce i don't care. Having that with some scripts on the desktop for common tasks (such as starting stopping the services) would really kick arse
[01:10] <neuralis> aye. in fact, that's what i was proposing to the express server install guys when they first started
[01:10] <infinity> (Granted, most people doing a serial install don't NEED cute pkgsel options, but whatever)
[01:11] <neuralis> Linuturk_NB: uh, by default? on the server install? over my dead body ;)
[01:11] <Linuturk_NB> or, the option to
[01:11] <Linuturk_NB> at least
[01:11] <Linuturk_NB> for "idiots" like me
[01:11] <infinity> Seconded on the dead body thing.
[01:11] <infinity> If you want a desktop, install {xu,u,ku}buntu, then grab your server stuff.
[01:12] <Linuturk_NB> well, the server kernel is special
[01:12] <infinity> The desktop stuff is dozens (and often even hundreds) of packages.  The LAMP server you just set up was 12 packages.
[01:12] <Linuturk_NB> so, i did a ubuntu server install, then apt-get the desktop
[01:12] <infinity> The server kernel will run a desktop like CRAP, mind you. :)
[01:12] <infinity> (And you can always "apt-get install linux-server" to get the kernel)
[01:12] <Linuturk_NB> see, these are things I don't know . . . i just did what crimsun told me
[01:13] <Linuturk_NB> LAMP server install >> apt-get xubuntu-desktop and a xserver core deal
[01:13] <Linuturk_NB> now, I'm trying to install this web based point of sale system
[01:13] <Linuturk_NB> joy
[01:14] <infinity> As a general rule, you should try to get used to the idea of headless servers.
[01:14] <infinity> Sure, it takes some effort, if you're rather GUI-centric, but fewer moving parts is always a good thing.
[01:14] <Linuturk_NB> well, i'm a windows convert, so I am gui centric
[01:14] <infinity> Every time I had an NT server crash in the video driver (more often than you'd think), I'd curse Microsoft for moving the GDI into the kernel space.
[01:15] <Linuturk_NB> but hell, i don't even know how to irc from a terminal, so a gui is a must right now
[01:15] <infinity> And by "more often than you'd think", I mean once or twice a year.  But once or twice a year on several hundred machines becomes a lot of crashing for reasons I'd rather not deal with.
[01:15] <infinity> Linuturk_NB: "irssi irc.freenode.net"
[01:16] <Linuturk_NB> well, that's one step in the right direction. I got a guini pig machine at home I'll go straight terminal on from now on
[01:17] <neuralis> infinity: -c, won't work without
[01:17] <infinity> neuralis: Oh, whatever.  I usually set up my servers in scripts. :)
[01:18] <neuralis> likewise
[01:18] <infinity> Linuturk_NB: Make that "irssi -n Linuturk_NB -c irc.freenode.net" just to make neuralis happy about me giving good advice. :P
[01:18] <infinity> (That command line was actually tested)
[01:19] <Linuturk_NB> :)
[01:19] <Linuturk_NB> arg
[01:20] <Linuturk_NB> this pos system won't install. I've got to annoy it's dev now
[01:20] <Linuturk_NB> got a permissions error with a certain file
[01:22] <Linuturk_NB> http://forums.phppointofsale.com/viewtopic.php?t=360&highlight=settings+php << would the commands he outlines there be any different in ubuntu?
[01:22] <Linuturk_NB> You have to set write permissions to the settings<font size="3">.php file. </font>
[01:22] <Linuturk_NB> <font size="3">This can be done by doing chmod 755. This can be doing via ssh or your ftp program might support changing permissions.</font>
[01:22] <Linuturk_NB> sry bout the <font> tags
[01:23] <infinity> Obviously written by a windows user turned unix...
[01:23] <infinity> Why do people always recommend making files executable?
[01:23] <neuralis> infinity: i spent about 6 hours in an epic battle to get a breezy server to boot from a root drive that's on a dm crypto volume sitting on top of RAID. i wonder if this is a simplification target.
[01:23] <Linuturk_NB> chmod 777 ?
[01:23] <infinity> Linuturk_NB: Anyhow, if the file is owned by YOU, and you want the webserver to write to it, it needs to webserver to have access to it.
[01:23] <infinity> Linuturk_NB: 666 would be fine.
[01:23] <infinity> (And more fun to type)
[01:24] <Linuturk_NB> heh, but that's the devil Bobby!
[01:24] <infinity> neuralis: dm-crypt and dm-fakeraid are both on my TODO for dapper initramfs and installer hacking.
[01:24] <neuralis> rock.
[01:24] <neuralis> s/dapper/edgy/
[01:24] <infinity> neuralis: Getting them supported in initramfs is trivial, writing installer bits not so simple.
[01:25] <infinity> Whatever.  edgy.  Not used to typing that yet.
[01:25] <neuralis> okay, we can look at the installer bits in paris
[01:25] <neuralis> what would you like to get out of it? being able to install on a crypto drive?
[01:25] <Linuturk_NB> genius
[01:25] <Linuturk_NB> thanks
[01:26] <infinity> I wonder how upset my girlfriend will be if she wakes up to find that I've thrown her WinXP system across the room...
[01:26] <infinity> neuralis: Being able to install to dm-crypt and dm-fakeraid would be the goals, yes.
[01:26] <infinity> neuralis: Neither of those is particularly server-oriented, mind you.
[01:27] <Linuturk_NB> infinity: just pop in a live cd and watch her freak out
[01:27] <infinity> neuralis: The major usecase for dm-crypt is laptops, and the major usecase for dm-fakeraid is "people too cheap to buy real hardware"
[01:28] <neuralis> right. my hellpains were with a server machine which stores sensitive data in a not-fully-trusted environment, so the owners wanted full-drive encryption even if it means having to type a passphrase whenever there's power loss. go figure.
[01:29] <infinity> Yeah, a fair usecase, but not a common one, IMO.
[01:29] <infinity> Most uber-sensitive machines have enough physical security to make crypted filesystems pointless.
[01:30] <TTT_Travis> Hi guys, I recently installed Ubuntu Server Dapper, it works fine but I am trying to transfer a file from my mac to the linux box over my samba network and the file transfer rates are like 10kb/s which is horrible, I tried using ftp same result. I can transfer files from my mac to winblows pc fine? is there something that would cause this?
[01:30] <Linuturk_NB> i do i view the databases in mysql
[01:30] <neuralis> Linuturk_NB: show databases;
[01:31] <neuralis> TTT_Travis: if ftp gives the same result, it's either faulty network equipment (card, hub, switch) or a bad linux driver. the latter is less likely.
[01:31] <TTT_Travis> hmm could be card I guess
[01:32] <TTT_Travis> but I swore it worked fine on breezyu
[01:32] <infinity> Does dmesg have anything to say about card resets or other such fun things?
[01:33] <infinity> And does "ifconfig" show a whole mess of frame or carrier errors on that card?
[01:33] <TTT_Travis> I'll check
[01:33] <infinity> If the former, it could be a bad driver, if the latter, it's a bad cable or hub/switch.
[01:33] <TTT_Travis> there are some errors
[01:33] <TTT_Travis> http://pastebin.com/756697
[01:33] <TTT_Travis> thats ifconfig
[01:34] <Linuturk> this is my windows box, so don't kill the other
[01:34] <infinity> (You could also have blown out the MAC on your card with a power surge on the line.  Stranger things have happened.
[01:34] <TTT_Travis> there was a power outage a week ago
[01:34] <TTT_Travis> and it messed with my other card
[01:35] <TTT_Travis> so I put this one in there
[01:35] <infinity> That may well have done Very Bad Things.
[01:35] <TTT_Travis> well it has a mac address
[01:35] <infinity> Oh, you've switched cards?  The new one could just be bad, then.
[01:36] <infinity> Or your "I blew up the NIC" assumption may be incorrect, and you may have actually blown the PCI bus, so any NIC will fail (though all will fail differently)
[01:36] <TTT_Travis> heres what happened, I had this realtek one in my server and it suddenly just stopped working with linux so I swapped it with a linksys one of my sisters windows box and tried the old nonworking on in her box, and suprisingly it worked, so I put the linksys one in my server
[01:36] <infinity> Anyhow, it sounds less like a software issue and more like a hardware issue. :/
[01:36] <TTT_Travis> it seemed to be working fine with breezy
[01:36] <TTT_Travis> full speed transfers etc.
[01:36] <TTT_Travis> mm
[01:37] <Linuturk_NB> the default login for any database in mysql is my username and password for logging into the machine? or did you say it was root without a password?
[01:37] <TTT_Travis> I will mount my windows box on my dapper server and try to transfer files that way
[01:38] <infinity> Linuturk_NB: Root without a password, until you set something differently (which you should)
[01:38] <TTT_Travis> that works fine at a normal speed
[01:38] <infinity> Linuturk_NB: Try something like "grant all on pointofsale.* to myuser identified by 'mypassword';"
[01:38] <TTT_Travis> try the mac I guess
[01:38] <Linuturk_NB> how do I change that? and it's just for internal use. it won't be used on the internet
[01:40] <neuralis> Linuturk_NB: man mysqladmin
[01:40] <Linuturk_NB> ERROR 1064 (42000): You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'pointofsale.* to username identified by password' at line 1
[01:41] <neuralis> Linuturk_NB: you're close to exhausting your goodwill allotment for general beginner questions :)
[01:41] <Linuturk_NB> mmk
[01:41] <Linuturk_NB> i'm just so close . . .
[01:43] <TTT_Travis> 360448 how many megabytes is that?
[01:43] <TTT_Travis> meh
[01:43] <TTT_Travis> is there a way to show progress when using the cp command?
[01:43] <TTT_Travis> -v?
[01:44] <neuralis> TTT_Travis: -v will echo each file as it's copied.
[01:45] <TTT_Travis> k
[01:45] <TTT_Travis> yeah linux to windows seems fine but linux to mac seems slow
[01:45] <TTT_Travis> so maybe its something with my mac
[01:46] <Linuturk_NB> ok, i ran sudo mysqladmin password ******
[01:46] <Linuturk_NB> now I can't : mysql -u root
[01:47] <Linuturk_NB> o, got it
[01:49] <infinity> Okay, tutorial session is up.
[01:49] <infinity> neuralis: Feel free to be a jerk, now. :)
[01:50] <Linuturk_NB> no no, i got it :-P
[01:59] <Linuturk_NB> arg, maybe I don't
[01:59] <Linuturk_NB> :(
[02:06] <TTT_Travis> weird
[02:07] <TTT_Travis> from my mac I only get 13kb/s transfer but yet from my windows box to my linux box I get like 3 or 5 mb/s
[02:08] <TTT_Travis> yet mac to windows gives me 3mb/s
[02:09] <TTT_Travis> think its something with my linux box then
[02:09] <TTT_Travis> dapper
[02:10] <TTT_Travis> oh I can download from my ubuntu dapper box at full speed
[02:10] <TTT_Travis> like 8mb/s
[02:10] <TTT_Travis> but transfer is whats being slow
[02:10] <neuralis> that's strange. i'd think syncookies/ecn/newreno-type stuff next, but i'm pretty sure you don't have any of it turned on, and that it wouldn't matter anyway on a local network.
[02:11] <TTT_Travis> yeah I just have a default install I haven't changed much really
[02:11] <TTT_Travis> I just did the lamp install
[02:12] <TTT_Travis> I still think its something software related
[02:13] <TTT_Travis> because it worked fine with breezy
[02:14] <TTT_Travis> this sucks
[02:58] <Linuturk_NB> got it
[02:58] <Linuturk_NB> :)
[02:58] <Linuturk_NB> thanks guys
[02:58] <Linuturk_NB> love your work
[03:38] <matias> hi there!
[05:58] <TTT_Travis> I install the dhcp3 server and for some reason it won't start on a default install of ubuntu server dapper
[05:59] <TTT_Travis> is there like a firewall blocking it?
[06:08] <infinity> It won't start if you have no subnet declarations in /etc/dhcp3/dchpd.conf
[06:08] <TTT_Travis> k
[08:40] <Mercury> Erm, just to verify, is it safe to upgrade to dapper drake with aptitude as opposed to the upgrade tool or apt-get dist-upgrade?
[07:51] <yogi> I just finished installing the new 6.06 server on hda1 & LAMP on hda3.  B-4 I go any farther I would appreciate knowing if the sources.list differs from that of the kubuntu 6.06LTS?  Thanks.
[08:02] <neuralis> yogi: no, it doesn't.
[08:03] <neuralis> yogi: why did you do a separate LAMP installation? it's just plain 6.06 server + a few packages.
[08:07] <yogi> neuralis:I did both to just check them out... never fsck'd with a server installation, b-4, so thought I'd look them over.
[08:08] <yogi> neuralis:Thanks for the info about sources.list.
[08:10] <yogi> neuralis:I'm currently running kubuntu 6.06LTS and have it set up as a router.  Perhaps I don't even need the server... but was curious.
[08:10] <neuralis> yogi: you understand they're really all the same underneath, right? kubuntu just has a bunch of desktop packages installed.
[08:15] <yogi> neuralis:That is what I have begun to realize since looking at the two server pkgs.  The added advan to my kubuntu is that the desktop is already installed (plus, the sound works).
[08:15] <yogi> neuralis:I just had a spare HD so thought I'd take a look since I didn't d/l the live one.
[08:16] <neuralis> right, and i'm explaining there's nothing to take a look at -- it's just your kubuntu desktop without the desktop packages, and with a few server packages if you did the lamp install.
[08:16] <neuralis> you can install the same server packages on the kubuntu machine.
[08:17] <yogi> Yep... I realize that, now.  Thanks for the info. :-)  I was pretty sure they were the same.  The kernel even seems to be the same one.
[08:17] <nictuku> hi
[08:17] <yogi> A couple other distros I've used over the past couple years used different kernels.
[08:18] <yogi> nictuku:hi.
[08:18] <edneymatias> hi
[08:18] <infinity> yogi: We use a different kernel on server installs.
[08:19] <infinity> yogi: 2.6.15-23-server is what you should have gotten, while your kubuntu install would be 2.6.15-23-386
[08:19] <infinity> (But there's nothing stopping you from installing either in the other system)
[08:19] <yogi> infinity:So there really is a diff, then.
[08:19] <infinity> yogi: package selection is the only difference.  The kernel is just a package like any other.
[08:20] <infinity> yogi: "apt-get install linux-server" on kubuntu, and you have the server kernel.  <twirl finger>
[08:20] <yogi> infinity:true.  The kernel is hardened, then?
[08:20] <neuralis> yogi: (don't do that; your desktop will work like shit with a server kernel.)
[08:20] <yogi> Okay... got it. lol
[08:20] <yogi> Must be a big diff.
[08:21] <edneymatias> infinity: that is it? a different kernel and a LAMP stack?
[08:21] <infinity> yogi: No, it just had some different defaults.  Lower polling rate (hence the "run like shit" above), no preempt (again, not great for desktops), different I/O scheduler (see above), etc.
[08:21] <neuralis> yogi: not security-hardened. it's non-preemptive, uses a different i/o scheduler (this is the bit that kills desktops), does some smp+numa, slower tick rate.
[08:21] <neuralis> hah. what infinity said.
[08:22] <infinity> edneymatias: Well, and no desktop fluff, yes.
[08:22] <infinity> edneymatias: I'm from the Debian school of server adminitration, where less is very much more.
[08:22] <yogi> infinity/neuralis:Many thanks for the info.  You, too, edneymatias. :-)
[08:22] <infinity> edneymatias: Fewer moving parts == easier to understand, less to break, and longer uptimes.
[08:23] <neuralis>  14:23:12 up 114 days, 23:15, 178 users,  load average: 0.26, 0.27, 0.24
[08:23] <infinity> edneymatias: And having the desktop and server installations use the same package base means that you can hack software on your laptop that you know will work on your server, since using the server for hacking is often a Really Dumb Idea.
[08:23] <yogi> neuralis:Cool.
[08:23] <edneymatias> infinity: yeah! i agree!
[08:24] <infinity>  12:23:59 up 368 days, 11:23,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[08:24] <neuralis> infinity: well yes, but this box actually has users :P
[08:24] <infinity> That's my (still not upgraded, because I'm lazy) woody box.
[08:24] <yogi> How long since [neuralis/infinity]  updates?
[08:24] <infinity> neuralis: That one hosts ~500 DNS zones and ~250 apache vhosts.  It's not "big", but big enough.
[08:25] <infinity> neuralis: It's just not a shell box, as yours clearly is. :)
[08:25] <neuralis> fair enough.
[08:25] <yogi> infinity/neuralis:I'm running into [seemingly]  weird behaviour on my HP notebook ..I actually have to reboot or risk trouble when updating.
[08:26] <neuralis> yogi: define trouble?
[08:26] <infinity> (It's also running woody still, but why split hairs... it's all the same heritage)
[08:26] <nictuku> hehe talking about upgrades, mariomeyer didn't manage to dist-upgrade our server correctly, not it's been offline for a few days, including nwu trac and svn repos.
[08:26] <ivoks> neuralis: A state of distress, affliction, difficulty, or need: tried to console them in their trouble; got in trouble with the police.
[08:26] <ivoks> neuralis: :)
[08:26] <infinity> Hah, and this is the box sitting next to it:
[08:26] <infinity>  13:26:17 up 365 days,  9:53,  3 users,  load average: 0.03, 0.12, 0.21
[08:26] <infinity> You can tell that must have been "kernel upgrade week".
[08:26] <yogi> neuralis:By trouble I'm referring to various things start to behave weirdly and it isn't always the same.
[08:27] <nictuku> infinity, 2.4 or 2.2 kernels in those woodies?
[08:27] <infinity> nictuku: 2.4.31+patches on both of them
[08:28] <infinity> They're both in desperate need of some TLC, but work always seems to come before hobbies.
[08:28] <yogi> Take X/KDE, for instance: There was a bad kde-guidance pkg whose bad behaviour appeared by simply restarting; X, on the other hand, though restarted, worked --and when rebooted, went screwy.
[08:29] <yogi> neuralis:The X behaviour was post-update for X, of course.  Left that part out.
[08:30] <nictuku> there is a considerable chance that nwu svn and trac repos are gone forever :-(
[08:30] <neuralis> infinity: 500 zones as a hobby? say, are you the gentleman that wants me to partake in a business venture whereby a certain amount of funds is to be transferred out of the deceased dictator's private accounts? you should have just said so! i'd have taken you up on the kind offer post haste. ;)
[08:30] <neuralis> nictuku: why?
[08:30] <infinity> nictuku: If they can be pulled off the filesystem, I can help recover them.
[08:31] <edneymatias> infinity: errr...but why not administer a server from a desktop?
[08:31] <nictuku> the guy didn't create a backup for it
[08:31] <infinity> neuralis: Hahaha.  I just do a lot of hosting for friends and family, that's all. :)
[08:31] <infinity> edneymatias: Because GUI tools are never a good replacement for understanding how your system actually work.
[08:31] <nictuku> although I've asked for a dump every day :-(
[08:32] <infinity> edneymatias: Especially when the GUI fails and you NEED to fix it with SSH, but realise you never bothered to learn how.
[08:32] <neuralis> nictuku: you still have the most recent code, right?
[08:32] <nictuku> infinity, I don't know the details. It's a canonical funded box, hosted at serverpronto I guess
[08:32] <nictuku> neuralis, yes, but I've put a lot of TLC in the trac and in the svn logs :-(
[08:32] <edneymatias> infinity: ok...but ssh can fail too
[08:32] <nictuku> work is not lost
[08:32] <infinity> nictuku: Don't need a dump.  If the original repository exists at all, even in a slightly-buggered state, it can be recovered.
[08:33] <neuralis> nictuku: sorry to hear about it. i'm happy to give you proper hosting for nwu if you need it.
[08:33] <infinity> edneymatias: The odds of your sshd failing but some GUI still being up are pretty slim. :)
[08:34] <nictuku> neuralis, thanks.
[08:34] <neuralis> nictuku: proper being high bandwidth, shell, raid drives and nightly off-continent backup.
[08:34] <infinity> edneymatias: But mostly, it's that adding the whole X/desktop stack to a system drastically increases its complexity.
[08:34] <infinity> edneymatias: It also has a non-kernel process directly fiddling with hardware, leading to instability.
[08:34] <infinity> edneymatias: Neither of those is a win.
[08:34] <neuralis> infinity: yeah, scary, that.
[08:35] <nictuku> neuralis, that is much better than the paid xen virtual host I was planning to move it to, whenever I got the svn and trac dumps hehe
[08:36] <neuralis> nictuku: when you're ready, mail me your ssh2 pubkey and i'll set you up.
[08:36] <infinity> neuralis: How much does your current workplace love Debian/Ubuntu?
[08:37] <infinity> neuralis: And is there a hands-on lab where free software gigs can be hosted? :)
[08:37] <neuralis> infinity: what do you need?
[08:38] <infinity> neuralis: Michael Schmitz (Debian developer and m68k hacker) is leaving the university he's been at for the last 400 years, and we need to find new hosting for {crest,q650,kullervo}.debian.org (m68k porting machines)
[08:38] <infinity> neuralis: I was going to just ship them to me here in .au, but hosting on .edu bandwidth would be much less crap.
[08:39] <infinity> neuralis: Being old hardware, they require the occasional kick (crest crashes twice a year, that sort of thing), hence the "hands-on" requirement, rather than just locking them in a closet.
[08:39] <neuralis> if you don't need >~99% uptime, it's almost certainly not a problem
[08:39] <infinity> I don't think we care much about five nines. :)
[08:39] <nictuku> hehe
[08:39] <neuralis> infinity: let me shoot around a few mails, but that should be fine.
[08:40] <edneymatias> infinity: the x/desktop stuff can help me administer my systems?
[08:40] <infinity> edneymatias: In all honesty?  Probably not.  There are very few good GUI tools written to adminiter most daemons.
[08:41] <infinity> edneymatias: People who write UNIX server software tend to be old skool enough to not see the point, and new skool kids don't seem to "get it", and write tools that stomp all over your configs and generally break the system.
[08:41] <edneymatias> infinity: and what if we develop that good GUI tools?
[08:42] <neuralis> edneymatias: famous last words. it's *much* easier said then done.
[08:42] <infinity> edneymatias: <shrug>.. If you were to develop them, that would be a good argument, perhaps, for X-over-ssh, or such, but still never a good argument for an Xserver running on the server box.
[08:42] <edneymatias> infinity: would the x/desktop be helpfuul?
[08:42] <nictuku> edneymatias, there are many initiatives to, but using the CLI is more efficient, as the unix history shows
[08:42] <nictuku> edneymatias, hardly
[08:43] <infinity> edneymatias: Realistically, I'd not put my seal of approval on anything that adds complexity to the system for the sake of people who can't read manuals.  If it can be done in a way that doesn't harm people like ME, while also helping others, then that's cool.
[08:43] <edneymatias> nictuku: ok...you are right, CLI is MUCH more efficient
[08:43] <neuralis> infinity: i have a tentative green light on hosting the machines. i'll double check for any possible obscure problems (since we wouldn't own the machines), but i don't expect issues.
[08:43] <nictuku> edneymatias, viu? :-)
[08:43] <infinity> Tihs has been attempted with web-based management software, for instance, which leverages things you already want on a server, while not adding new software.  But most web-based management has, to date, sucked balls.
[08:44] <edneymatias> nictuku: vi! ;-)
[08:44] <TTT_Travis> I am trying to set up a dhcp3 server but when I start it keeps failing, is there a log file somewhere so I can see why its failing?
[08:44] <nictuku> webmin => /dev/null
[08:44] <infinity> neuralis: Bear in mind that someone in the lab where the machines live would have to be willing to occasionally button-bitch, and perhaps even learn enough about Debian/68k to be walked through swapping faulty hardware or such.
[08:44] <infinity> neuralis: If that's way too unrealistic, I'll just host 'em in my house. :)
[08:45] <nictuku> TTT_Travis, tried /var/log/syslog?
[08:45] <nictuku> TTT_Travis, check /etc/default/dhcp3-server (or something like that)
[08:45] <TTT_Travis> I'll check
[08:45] <infinity>  /var/log/daemon.log even.
[08:45] <nictuku> TTT_Travis, you need to set the interfaces the daemon will listen and send replies to
[08:46] <infinity> You need two things.  You need to tell it what interface(s) to listen on in /etc/default/dhcp3-server, and you need a valid config file with at least one subnet properly declared in /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf
[08:46] <TTT_Travis> nictuku gottcha
[08:46] <neuralis> infinity: it's fine on both counts; it'd be smart folks hosting them
[08:46] <nictuku> and probably declare it "authoritative"
[08:46] <infinity> dhcpd is really rather picky about not loading if the config is useless.
[08:47] <neuralis> infinity: and i have a key in the unlikely case a cluebat need be wielded.
[08:47] <infinity> if the config is a no-op (ie: listen on eth0, but don't declare any of the subnets on eth0), it'll just exit.
[08:47] <infinity> neuralis: How many years are you planning on being there? :)
[08:48] <nictuku> :-)
[08:49] <neuralis> infinity: it's not contingent upon my being there, so they can stay there as long as they're needed
[08:49] <infinity> neuralis: Anyhow, I'll talk to Michael and see if he's found hosting in Europe yet.  If not, I'll poke you again.  Your offer sounds about like what we want.
[08:50] <neuralis> sure.
[08:51] <infinity> (And you'll be one of the few universities in the world running multiuser m68k machines, that's got to count for some sort of academic nerd points)
[08:51] <infinity> crest gets a LOT of use.
[08:51] <nictuku> is the ubuntu-server list not listed in the lists index on purpose?
[08:52] <infinity> nictuku: Probably just an oversight, though the relative silence on the list as a result is pleasant, no?
[08:52] <neuralis> infinity: it'll go nicely with the nerd points we have for running the first-ever large scale automatic digital computer in the states :)
[08:53] <infinity> You still put power to the thing?
[08:54] <neuralis> hell no. i think it'd burn up in a big ball of fire if we did, not before dimming the lights of every apartment in a 3 mile radius.
[08:54] <nictuku> hehehehe
[08:55] <neuralis> but it's on display in the science center.
[08:55] <neuralis> parts thereof; it's largely disassembled nowadays.
[08:55] <infinity> neuralis: Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but your use of "running" in the baove sentence led me to believe it was STILL running.
[08:55] <infinity> above, too.
[08:56] <neuralis> ah, sorry. i meant "once running".
[08:56] <infinity> Subtle language, this English.
[08:57] <neuralis> It was built using 765,000 components and hundreds of miles of wire, amounting to a size of 51 feet (16 m) in length, eight feet (2.4 m) in height, and two feet deep. It had a weight of about five short tons (4500 kg). The basic calculating units had to be synchronized mechanically, so they were run by a 50 foot (15 m) shaft driven by a five-horsepower (4 kW) electric motor. The Mark I could store 72 numbers, each 23 decimal digits long.
[08:57] <nictuku> thanks for the metric conversion
[08:58] <neuralis> infinity: think we could run ubuntu on it? :)
[08:58] <neuralis> nictuku: courtesy of wikipedia.
[08:58] <TTT_Travis> can anyone that knows about dhcp3-server look at this and tell me what I am doing wrong in my config file?
[08:58] <TTT_Travis> http://pastebin.com/758172
[08:59] <nictuku> TTT_Travis, you have to have a subnet lease declaration
[08:59] <neuralis> TTT_Travis: that's a VERY descriptive and helpful error message. what's unclear?
[08:59] <infinity> neuralis: Hey, I specialise in running Linux on ancient/obsolete 32-bit systems.  Any further back, and you'r on your own. :)
[09:00] <TTT_Travis> neuralis I am not really sure how it wants me to declare the subnet in the dhcpd.conf file
[09:01] <nictuku> TTT_Travis, well, you should read the documentation of a service you're trying to install
[09:01] <nictuku> TTT_Travis, try www.debian-administration.org
[09:01] <nictuku> TTT_Travis, wiki.ubuntu.com must have something too
[09:01] <TTT_Travis> k
[09:01] <infinity> TTT_Travis: The conf file has example subnet declarations in it, commented out.
[09:02] <infinity> TTT_Travis: "man dhcpd.conf" is also helpful.
[09:02] <infinity> TTT_Travis: As is "man dhcp-options", if you're looking to get scary in-depth.
[09:03] <neuralis> i'm out, cheers.
[09:03] <infinity> Later, Ivan.
[09:05] <nictuku> neuralis, cheers
[09:08] <TTT_Travis> ok here is what I get now
[09:08] <TTT_Travis> http://pastebin.com/758192
[09:08] <TTT_Travis> along with my config file
[09:08] <TTT_Travis> which I am sure I am doing wrong
[09:09] <infinity> Mismatched braces, for one.
[09:09] <TTT_Travis> oh yeah
[09:09] <TTT_Travis> ignore that
[09:09] <TTT_Travis> I removed the extra brace and it still gives me same error
[09:10] <infinity> You really should have broadcast-address and routers in the subnet declaration too, not globally, for sanity's sake.
[09:11] <TTT_Travis> k
[09:11] <TTT_Travis> bad subnet number/mask combination.
[09:11] <TTT_Travis> what would that mean?
[09:11] <infinity> Well, can you paste your CURRENT config then, instead of asking me to debug the wrong one? :)
[09:11] <infinity> 192.168.1.3 isn't a network number, if your IP address.
[09:12] <infinity> Your IP address (192.168.1.3) belongs to the network 192.168.1.0/24 (or "subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0" in dhcpd-speak)
[09:12] <TTT_Travis> current
[09:12] <TTT_Travis> http://pastebin.com/758208
[09:12] <TTT_Travis> 192.168.1.3 is the boxes ip assigned from my router
[09:13] <infinity> Yes, which is not a NETWORK ADDRESS, it's YOUR ADDRESS.
[09:13] <infinity> The network is 192.168.1.0
[09:13] <TTT_Travis> alright
[09:13] <infinity> Also, if you have DHCP on this subnet already, you realise this won't work at all, right?
[09:14] <infinity> You'll have to give your machine a static IP, and turn off the DCHP server on your router.
[09:14] <TTT_Travis> hmm
[09:15] <TTT_Travis> what if I changed the network?
[09:15] <TTT_Travis> to like 192.168.2.0
[09:15] <infinity> Then you'd need to have another physical network.
[09:15] <TTT_Travis> oh
[09:15] <TTT_Travis> I suppose
[09:15] <TTT_Travis> well what I am trying to do is setup ltsp if you have ever heard of that just to play around with it a little
[09:15] <infinity> DHCP happens before machine have IP addresses (obviously), so the subnet doesn't matter, it's the physical wire that matters.
[09:15] <TTT_Travis> but I am stuck on this dhcp3 server part
[09:16] <infinity> Two DHCP server on the same wire (unless masked off with MAC ACLs) will explode.
[09:16] <infinity> Anyhow, fix your subnet declaration, give your machine a static IP, turn off DHCP on the router, and you're golden.
[09:16] <TTT_Travis> yeah and this box only has one NIC anyway
[09:17] <TTT_Travis> so would that work?
[09:17] <infinity> And keep in mind that you're now serving DHCP for the whole physical subnet, not just for the ltsp clients. :)
[09:17] <TTT_Travis> yeah
[09:17] <TTT_Travis> thats fine
[09:17] <TTT_Travis> so the box that this is running on would just assign ips to all of the boxes connected to the network?
[09:17] <infinity> Yes.
[09:18] <TTT_Travis> my cabling its setup like Router -> dhcp server and then Router -> PC and and Router -> other pc
[09:18] <TTT_Travis> so I wouldn't need another nic card?
[09:19] <infinity> The router is a switch or hub, right?
[09:19] <infinity> So all the machines can see each other through it just fine.
[09:19] <infinity> So it doesn't matter who is serving DHCP, so long as there's only one of you doing it.
[09:19] <infinity> It's all one physical ethernet network.  One big wire.
[09:19] <TTT_Travis> ok
[09:19] <TTT_Travis> yes
[09:19] <TTT_Travis> I gotcha
[09:19] <TTT_Travis> I will attempt to set this up now
[09:22] <infinity> (which reminds me, I really need to turn off DHCP on my home DSL router and move it to another machine..)
[09:22] <infinity> Thanks for the accidental reminder.