[12:04] hmm, well that was something I always wondered about, but it has been on the wiki page since I used it to make my first chroot [12:04] LaserJock: If you're doing something silly like installing sudo in your chroots... Don't... Use sudo outside the chroot. "sudo dchroot -c dapper" [12:04] oh for goodness sakes [12:05] now I'm all confused [12:06] Hi. I have just deboostrapped a base dapper. Is there a way to kick on the installer to have it finish the installation like it had been installed from the CD? [12:06] I mean I see what your saying (sort of) but we really need to take a look at that wiki page then [12:06] Or, for extra fun user-switching hilarity "sudo dchroot -c dapper su - someotheruser" [12:06] what's the current ncurses way to dpkg-reconfigure loclaes? [12:07] (i.e. it doesn't offer you to add loclaes anymore) [12:07] sivang: Install a langpack, happens automatically. [12:07] uh-ha! thanks! === AlD [n=johan@dsl-165-104-34.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:09] infinity: there a commmon script all langpacks use to do that? [12:09] LaserJock: jbailey's been hacking on a dchroot-manager tool. I think I'll branch his bzr archive and stuff all my years of buildd and dchroot-admin knowlege into it, and maybe people can get more use out of that than a random wiki page. [12:09] sivang: /usr/share/locales/install-language-pack [12:10] sivang: See the postinst for any language-pack-??-base package. === _mike_ [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:12] infinity: yep , thanks, so now if I want to just add a local without having to install all the langpack data, I need to manually use /usr/sbin/locale-gen ? [12:12] infinity: yes, that would be good. My biggest problem isn't so much the wiki page but that I used the wiki page when I was writing the Packaging Guide [12:13] sivang: Yeah, though a locale with no data is mostly useless (except for the time and date formats and such, I guess) [12:14] infinity: yes, that waht I wanted to achive, thanks. === skingsley [n=steve@67.187.90.162] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:17] I installed the new version today and its great. I was wondering if there is a personal financial application package for ubuntu. [12:18] skingsley: -> #ubuntu [12:18] skingsley: This is not a support channel. === madduck [n=madduck@debian/developer/madduck] has joined #ubuntu-devel === storm [n=joel@201.21.208.3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === storm is now known as M4gicSt0rm === sivang tries to find the KDE dependency in the hebrew lang-pack support packagine [12:32] package, even === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _ion [i=johan@kiviniemi.name] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AlinuxOS [n=AlinuxOS@d83-184-246-152.cust.tele2.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sivang finds langpack-he-bae [12:37] base === _TomB [n=ownthebo@AC8F4C87.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:39] anyway, time to go to sleep [12:39] night all [12:40] infinity: don't stay up when you don't have to :) === FliesLikeALap [n=Ryan@ool-45796272.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === FliesLikeABrick [n=Ryan@about/rpi/rawdor] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TomB_ [n=ownthebo@AC8F4C87.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:58] are there any DC admins around? === Yvonne [n=01101110@pdpc/supporter/active/Yvonne] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:59] sivang: What needs fixing? === sivang sorry I lied about going to sleep [01:00] infinity: I need to have a public ssh key added to humboldt so some people can upload stuff for me there... does that fall under your domain? [01:01] Since I don't even know what purpose humboldt serves, I'll go with "no". [01:01] infinity: okay, thanks anyway. [01:01] You probably want elmo/Znarl. [01:01] yes, do you know when they should be available ? [01:03] sivang: not at midnight on a sunday [01:03] sivang: an rt request will get them tho [01:03] sivang: It's only barely Monday (00:03 BST) in London right now. Give 'em time to end the weekend. [01:03] And yes, RT it. [01:04] how do I RT ? [01:05] you email rt@admin.canonical.com [01:05] -> /msg [01:05] Or not. :) [01:05] ah [01:05] mdke: I was trying to avoid that landing in Fabio's IRC logs for spam crawlers. :) === mdke goes into that hole in the ground that has just opened === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sivang joins mdke for even trying to wake up the admins on a sunday evening at high midnight === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:08] Howdy folks [01:08] sivang: this hole isn't big enough for the both of us [01:08] heh === HrdwrBoB [n=matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [n=richard@C1490202.wl149.flinders.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bronson [n=bronson@pool-72-70-92-114.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@242.Red-83-49-54.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-146-167-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chuck_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chuck_ is now known as zul === j_ack [n=nico@p508DA0CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:51] mirak: there is no way to run d-i from a running system. While I realise this is not intuitively obvious, it expects to basically *be* the operating system, and doesn't at all like something else really running the show. [02:52] mirak: it might be possible to fix that one day, but it's a matter of fairly serious hacking (and tackling some fundamental issues like "how do you do partitioning when a root filesystem is mounted on that disk so the kernel can't re-read the partition table?"), not just configuration [02:52] Not worth it. But it'd be useful to install to another system from inside d-i. [02:53] Or another partition. [02:53] Or even a chroot. [02:53] (ie easier than debootstrap) [02:54] "install to another system from inside d-i"> I don't even know what that means [02:56] err. from inside an existing system. [02:56] For instance, plug in my USB disk, run d-i, install to it. [02:57] that's what I just said to mirak was impossible and might be fixed one day, and you said "not worth it, but " [02:57] s/impossible/currently impossible/ [02:57] Thought you mentioned on the root file system. [02:58] Yeah, ya did. [02:58] at the moment it's not possible to run d-i from a running system at all [02:58] Yeah. I know. [02:58] n/m I'm out. ;) [02:58] yes, installing to a different disk would make partitioning easier [02:58] in that case - but that's just one of the issues === shackan [n=shackan@host193-82.pool8261.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dborg [n=daniel@e182060063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lemsto [n=salim@ANantes-154-1-97-82.w86-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:17] Kamion: WTH are you doing around at this time of day, anyway? [03:21] infinity: can't sleep; you know the score [03:22] Kamion: Oh, I do at that (I haven't slept since sometime yesterday), I just figured you weren't in the same boat as me. :/ [03:22] good morning [03:22] infinity: not normally, just occasionally [03:24] I've been writing DebuggingUbiquity on the wiki in the hope that people will create less of a mess in my inbox over subsequent weekends. ;) [03:24] Heh. [03:25] heh === jdub hugs Kamion === lukaswayne9 [n=lukas@c-68-84-69-12.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chrisle [n=chris@p54BE45A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === blanky [n=jorge@pool-71-104-117-215.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:38] hey guys [03:38] can someone please point me in the right direction in making an ubuntu based distribution, any information I can look at? === wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:48] mgalvin: ping === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fimbulvetr [n=danv@host-74-28-220-24.midco.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:59] he must be sleeping already === Aegir [n=richard@129.96.151.214] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:01] mgalvin: ahr? [04:01] oh, reconnect [04:01] yeah [04:01] jub: howdy [04:01] aha [04:01] he's back [04:01] new and improved [04:01] mgalvin: UWN moderated and posted to the fridge! [04:01] version 2.0 [04:02] cool, thanks! :) === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:03] jdub++ [04:03] coolies === blanky [n=jorge@pool-71-104-117-215.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] [04:10] Heya tseng, jsgotangco [04:10] hey bddebian === holycow [n=a@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === blanky [n=jorge@pool-71-104-117-215.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:14] hi bddebian, jsgotangco, jdub, etc. [04:14] hey tseng [04:14] Hi Burgundavia [04:14] tseng: Back from your trip? [04:15] bddebian: yes [04:15] hey [04:15] bddebian: got back friday night, if you recall the spot of weather we had then [04:15] Aye [04:15] pretty awful [04:15] for flying [04:15] I was out shoveling dirt in it :-) [04:16] you mean mud [04:16] Yeah, it was at that point [04:16] 95 was flooded [04:16] a bunch of people pulled off [04:16] Joy === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.7.170.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rpedro [n=rpedro@87-196-3-248.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hendry [n=hendry@222.106.128.78] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:43] jdub: just so you know, i am going to try and send off those UWN issues each saturday night (my time) [04:43] the sunday paper :) [04:44] haha [04:44] rad ;) [04:45] Wow, I haven't heard "rad" in ages :) === hit1983 [n=hit@219.144.251.151] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:46] <_ion> k-rad [04:46] k-rad? [04:47] k-rad, it's even better than rad. Which 80s did you miss? [04:47] I try hard to forget them :-) [04:47] how to install tomcat ? [04:47] night all [04:47] Ask in #ubuntu? [04:47] Gnight mgalvin [04:47] <_ion> To be accurate, K-rad really means "ghay-radiant". [04:48] night bddebian === _ion just woke up. I'll try to sleep one more hour. [04:49] bddebian: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=k-rad [04:49] Like totally dude [04:53] I used to be k-rad in the 80s. [04:53] I dialed in with my 1200 baud modem to a k-rad pir-8 BBS [04:54] hrm [04:54] where's the real install documentation? [04:54] hrm, maybe it's on archive [04:55] It's generated from d-i, yes. [04:55] If you mean the verbose and very informative docs that Debian publishes with new releases. === bddebian whips out the sarcasm detector.. [04:56] At least... I thought it was generated from d-i... Now I can't find it. [04:56] boh, foild [04:56] yeah [04:56] bddebian: No, I'm not being sarcastic, the Debian install guide is generally quite useful. [04:56] maybe Kamion kills it from our archive [04:57] for instance [04:57] infinity: I wasn't sure, hence the detector :-) [04:57] the netboot page on the wiki [04:57] It has wonderful instructions for l33t setups like bootp+tftp, plus general info on what the different installer bits do. [04:57] talks about setting up tftpd with xinetd [04:57] which is like [04:57] ... huh? [04:57] yeah, i'm trying to point someone to the netboot docs [04:58] jdub: most of the installation guides on the wiki are hideously out of date [04:58] jdub: Just point them to the Debian docs. They're the same. [04:58] oh, weird [04:58] http://ftp.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/index.html [04:58] ^ care of google (first hit) [04:58] http://www.debian.org/releases/sarge/debian-installer/ [04:58] no doc dir for dapper [04:58] So, we distributed it in warty, but not in dapper?... Perhaps we just deemed it "unmaintained", and dropped it. I dunno. [04:59] Worth poking Kamion about sometime. [04:59] Oh, this was the more proper link: [04:59] http://www.debian.org/releases/sarge/installmanual [04:59] i'll pass on the breezy one [04:59] Oh, we still published it in breezy? [04:59] Then Isuspect we lost it as part of the soyuz transition. [04:59] And perhaps no one noticed. [05:00] infinity: in there any sane reason to install PH5 from source? [05:00] Burgundavia: Not that I can think of. [05:01] Burgundavia: There may be reason to install more extensions from source than we build, but that can be done in about 5 seconds with php5-dev and phpize, much less effort than installing the whole mess. [05:01] ok [05:01] Burgundavia: Why do you ask? [05:01] murdering useless wiki pages [05:02] Yeah, I don't think "installing $foo from source" where $foo is a package we ship belongs on the Ubuntu wiki at all, TBH. [05:02] jdub: installation-guide package [05:02] jdub: doc.ubuntu.com [05:02] It belongs in upstream docs, certainly. [05:03] http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/install/i386/ [05:03] mgalvin needs to kick an update to the current package, though, to get rid of 6.04 and stuff [05:03] Kamion: Ahh, we just stopped publishing is in installer-$arch, so I got confused. [05:03] s/is/it/ [05:03] yes, it's not in the archive in the old style any more because the manual got rearranged upstream [05:03] Makes sense. Just confused the bejesus out of me. :) [05:04] oh [05:04] Kamion: 'cos i looked at help.ubuntu.com; didn't expect it to be on doc. === \sh [n=shermann@xdsl-81-173-249-156.netcologne.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === infinity didn't know there WAS a doc.ubuntu.com until just now. [05:04] I think mgalvin intended to put it on help.ubuntu.com once dapper was released, iirc [05:04] Heya \sh [05:05] ahr [05:05] http://help.ubuntu.com/5.10/ <-- 403, fun [05:05] <\sh> good morning [05:05] Yeah, I just noticed that. :) [05:05] help.ubuntu.com appears to need some TLC. === jdub covers his eyes from ETOOMANYSUBDOMAIN errors [05:05] jdub: I tihnk doc.u.c is meant to be unstable docs, for the docteam and contributors, while help.ubuntu.com is aimed at end users. [05:05] jdub: I think... [05:06] that was my understanding too [05:06] infinity: you are correct [05:06] mdke_ is coordinating the switchover [05:06] Shame that help.ubuntu.com looks nearly useless currently. [05:06] the wiki documentation is about to move to a new wiki there [05:06] yeah, but nothiing about the subdomains themselves indicates that :) [05:07] yeah, it should probably be s/doc/docteam/ ... Or something. [05:07] I'd expect doc and help to be aliases to the same vhost. === \sh kicks dm-crypt, pam-mount and his sd card...work or die *grrr8 [05:08] :/ [05:08] its the same machine === jdub thinks 'doc' is not clear enough as a subdomain anyway [05:08] like [05:08] google will index that stuff [05:08] and people will find it anyway [05:08] Well, I'm not entirely sure subdomains are clear to the non-geeky at all, period. [05:09] and the ubuntu wiki has such extreme google juice at this point, it's just going to be a massive fight [05:09] Tell your mom to go to "doc.ubuntu.com" and watch her type "www.doc.ubuntu.com" [05:09] Fight For The Google Juice [05:09] She totally will. [05:09] Only One Will... [05:09] Be Lucky [05:09] s/Be/Feel/ [05:09] damn [05:09] hehe [05:09] better remember that for next time === jdub feels for the doc team, this is Hard Stuff [05:11] the google juice issue is not that big, because the existing wiki is going to redirect [05:11] In related "mom and URL" things, has anyone ever actually tried to tell someone over the age of 50 to go to "Aitch tee tee pee colon slash slash slash dot dot org" before? Doesn't work so well. [05:12] i would not try to expose people over 50 to slashdot [05:12] you awful person! [05:13] jdub: It was in the 90s, they were selling a t-shirt I liked, I've since repented. [05:13] jdub: To make up for it, not only have I not exposed any more aging folk to slashdot, I also stopped reading it myself somewhere around 2000. [05:14] the naughties are all about repentence [05:14] <\sh> whatever slashdot is [05:17] tseng: is there a sane reason to install Mono from source? [05:18] docteam.u.c is used for svn [05:25] svn doesn't have to be the root of a vhost, just host the svn at docteam.ubuntu.com/svn and have the docteam website at docteam.ubuntu.com === infinity decides to nap for a bit until London wakes up, so he's a bit more alive when he tackles Kinnison. [05:26] heh [05:28] <\sh> why the hell it's not possible to create a i386 pbuilder on amd64 with --debootstrapopts "--arch 386"? [05:28] <\sh> whereas a simple deboostrap works out of the bocx [05:28] <\sh> s/bocx/box/ [05:28] strange [05:28] apache died [05:29] on my mirror [05:29] no idea why [05:29] dieman: Nothing in the logs? [05:30] \sh: --arch isn't mean for cross-arch bootstraps, it's just meant for cases when "dpkg --print-installaiton-architecture" is useless (or missing completely) [05:30] hrm, does apache restart as part of the logrotate stuff? [05:30] perhaps it just didn't come back right === holycow [n=a@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:30] afternoon all [05:31] dieman: Yes, it does. If your particular installation doesn't run any modules that break on graceful, change it to reload. [05:31] <\sh> infinity: then the documentation of pbuilder is totally useless [05:31] ahh [05:31] thats probally what happened [05:31] dieman: I have yet to find the "right" solution to that one, and restarting is more correct for more people, due to module breakage. :/ [05:31] <\sh> pbuilder create --distribution sid --debootstrapopts --arch --debootstrapopts i386 \ [05:31] <\sh> --basetgz /var/cache/pbuilder/base-i386.tgz --mirror http://ftp.jp.debian.org/debian [05:31] i have no idea why it wouldn't have come back up though [05:31] odd [05:31] dieman: /etc/logrotate.d/apache2 -> s/restart/reload/ [05:31] <\sh> and then calling pbuilder with linux32 to build [05:31] yah [05:32] infinity: thanks [05:32] dieman: If it was under really heavy load, it can take too long to go down and still be running when it tries to come up. [05:32] aha [05:32] thats what it was then is my guess [05:32] I *think* I can fix that problem. [05:32] it was under heavy load still, probally [05:32] And probably will for etch/edgy. [05:32] infinity: http://x2218-1.nts.umn.edu/cgi-bin/gtr.northernlights.gigapop.net.cgi?log=gtr.northernlights.gigapop.net_so-0_0_0.0 [05:32] (We already wait 60 seconds for it to die, mind you...) [05:32] infinity: see the notch at 7am? :) [05:32] But I think I can kill it better. We'll see. [05:33] looks like it was doing at least 50mbps on that connection [05:33] so it was probally doing like 75mbps only [05:33] sunday morning is slow [05:34] heh, its already doing 40mbps [05:35] \sh: I'm sure it's doable, but I'm not sitting in front of an amd64 machine right now, so can't experiment. [05:35] <\sh> infinity: with a plain debootstrap it works ... but not with the pbuilder wrapper [05:35] <\sh> strange [05:35] <\sh> infinity: works means: it fetches i386 packages and not amd64 packages [05:35] dieman: apache2's init script will haunt me until the day I die. It just grows hack upon hack. It's dangerously close to becoming sentient. [05:36] heh === wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:37] dieman: I'll see if I can make make "restart" behave better in the next (with even more AI!) version I upload with 2.0.58/2.2.0 later today/tomorrow. [05:38] heh === chumpalump [n=dhjr@24-196-76-158.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chumpalump [n=dhjr@24-196-76-158.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:10] infinity: i am sad that the old apache uber-log-rotation stuff doesn't exist anymore - the one that found all log files referenced by the apache config. i guess that's harder to do with logrotate itself. === \sh is using gentoos apaches splitlog and uses SetEnv VLOG /my/log/dir to have nifty split up logfiles. split up by date (month-year) and vhost [06:21] jdub: I still have the scary awk that made that go, and COULD perhaps do it again, but it was a pretty ugly hack. [06:21] jdub: It has crossed my mind, though. The last time we saw it was, what? potato's apache 1.3.9? [06:22] yeah, probably [06:23] i loved it so much though [06:23] it was one of the 'just works' things that really turned me on about debian [06:23] attention to detail, etc. === Xof [n=mas01cr@158.223.59.22] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:24] Okay, why do we not have libpam-keying in the archive? (And any bets on how soon I upload it after edgy opens?) [06:24] No more gnome-keyring password prompts, FTW. [06:24] what does libpam-keyring do? [06:24] jdub: I'll consider it for etch/edgy. [06:25] jdub: pam_keyring allows you to authenticate your gnome-keyring via PAM... [06:25] oh right [06:25] nice [06:25] <\sh> keyring like in gpg-keyring? [06:25] jdub: Which, if you're uber-lazy, could just mean having the same password for login and your keyring, and doing password falthrough. [06:25] back to logs - how would it interact with logrotate? [06:25] Or, you could be more tricky. === jdub wonders if we can kerberise edgy [06:26] \sh: No, the gnome-keyring, AKA: The irritating thing that stores wifi passwords and makes networkmanager no fun on every login. [06:26] <\sh> infinity: ah...like kwallet...same problem on KDEs site of the earth === jdub hugs g-k, shields it from infinity [06:27] kerberise? like security? [06:27] infinity; haha. funny you should mention that [06:27] infinity; i wrote a program today! [06:27] http://desrt.mcmaster.ca/random/keyring-unlocker.c [06:27] oh yah baby. no more hatred for me. === infinity laughs. [06:28] i love it how people are flickring their upgrades [06:28] pam_keyring seems slightly more "correct", but unlocking will make me happy in the short run. [06:28] with appropriate glee and hysterics about how easy it is [06:28] pam_keyring is dapper-incompatible === \sh wonders, if anyone of you ever tried cryptsetup and pam-mount to create a SD card for gpg keys, which mounts automatically to $HOME/.gnupg [06:28] jdub: except when they break horribly [06:28] Given that the only thing I store in there is my wifi passwords, and I'm perfectly happy with those being protected by filesystem permissions, I've always been annoyed at the extra security. [06:28] desrt: Is it? [06:28] \sh; that's hilariously insecure [06:28] Burgundavia: why would anyone flickr that? [06:28] infinity; it requires pam 0.99 [06:29] infinity; dapper has 0.7something [06:29] desrt: No, there's a version for older PAMs as well. [06:29] oh. neat. [06:29] <\sh> desrt: the pam mount thing, yes, it was just a technological tryout [06:29] yes, it shits me having to type in my password constantly [06:29] although, having an airo card, it doesn't actually WORK anyway [06:29] the real solution would be to make an SD card (or perhaps more suitably, a USB device) which does onboard RSA key operations and has a secret key which it refuses to ever give to anyone ever [06:30] jdub: Not sure how I'd make it integrate with logrotate, or if I'd have to scrap the logrotate config and go back to cron+savelog. :/ [06:30] desrt: yes [06:30] it's also more expensive [06:30] jdub: (Not that there's anything wrong with cron+savelog, just that people like centralised log rotation) [06:30] <\sh> desrt: the other possibility would be to make crypto key smartcards work out of the box for edgy (usb or pcmcia devices included ;)) [06:30] and potentially disastrous for the user [06:30] HrdwrBoB; shrug. [06:30] because all it takes is one idiot to lose their card and they lose all their data [06:30] HrdwrBoB; s/card/passphrase/ [06:31] HrdwrBoB; same story, really [06:31] don't get me wrong it's a good idea, it's just that it's a bit more onerous [06:31] oh, passphrase, I was thinking you weren't using a passphrase at all [06:31] have purely physical security [06:32] <\sh> HrdwrBoB: funny thing is, gpg does support key smartcards and 2-4 devices to read them, to create gpg keys and rings directly. but it does not work on dapper out of the box..tried it last week === TomB| [n=ownthebo@AC8F4C87.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:32] no devices suit my needs === desrt needs something that can handle large RSA keys [06:33] what's hilariously insecure about keeping your private key on a usb stick? it's only slightly less secure than keeping it on your laptop (and only because the usb stick is smaller) [06:33] <\sh> desrt: well, right now, the smartcards can handle only 1024 bit keys yes [06:33] jdub; security is a relative term [06:33] jdub: Except your laptop has a higher chance of being stolen than a random memoery stick does, so the stick becomes more secure. [06:33] hilarious was the relative term i was questioning [06:33] jdub; if you put a lot of effort into something (which it sounds like was the case) then you should expect to gain a fair deal of security [06:33] infinity: yeah, now that's true too [06:34] desrt: sticking your gpg key on a usb stick doesn't require a lot of effort [06:34] jdub; for the amount of effort to implement the scheme described it makes almost entirely no difference [06:34] jdub; encrypting the filesystem and hooking up pam-mount does [06:34] and presumably, it's on a USB stick so that you can take it places [06:34] meanwhile, any computer you plug it into could just make a copy of it [06:35] plus, encrypted filesystem is totally redundant to having a passphrase on the key itself [06:35] and the instant you enter the passphrase on some other computer .... let's hope you trust their box :) [06:35] this is what i mean hilariously insecure [06:36] having a token that did RSA ops is more secure because the box never has a chance to copy key data from the device [06:36] a) why encrypt it? b) why stick it in an untrusted computer? [06:36] well [06:36] covers it if stolen [06:36] rhetorical questions [06:36] don't waste your effort :) [06:36] if you're only going to use it with your laptop anyway why not just store it on your laptop? [06:36] that said, nobody steals a USB key to get the gpg keys off it [06:36] because laptop goes walkies [06:36] fair, i suppose. [06:36] and if they are, they're going to be good, and are likely to get it anyway [06:37] i've never lost a laptop. i've lost a few usb devices.... === Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@c211-28-183-112.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdub has the laptop to show for laptops-go-walkies too :) [06:37] a usb stick is more likely to be reformatted once taken than a laptop [06:37] jdub; when your laptop got stolen did it have key data on it? [06:37] (and also depends on the location where it was stolen i guess) [06:37] <\sh> let's have a short reminder: UBZ [06:37] a laptop running linux is going to be reformatted if stolen [06:37] that's pretty much ti [06:37] \sh; but the noodles were SOOO good [06:37] desrt: yes [06:37] forever in my mind those noodles will be associated with jeff's laptop being stonel [06:37] *stolen [06:37] jdub; did you revoke? [06:38] no [06:38] good man [06:38] <\sh> desrt: for one day: absolutely [06:38] i'm a bad person, etc. [06:38] ya right [06:38] i don't bother with keysigning crap either [06:38] <\sh> desrt: and ajmitch [06:38] just makes my eyes glaze over === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.211.204] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:38] i promise you the person who stole your laptop (or the person they sold it to) booted it up, scratched their head for a moment, then reached for a windows install CD [06:38] "wait -- i could be FISHING!!!" [06:39] desrt: no wa [06:39] way [06:39] "wait -- i could be reupholstering the sofa!!!" [06:39] the person who stole it likely fenced it for some smack [06:39] and that person sold it to some other guy [06:39] HrdwrBoB; that's considered selling. see above :p [06:39] and THAT person installed windows [06:39] "wait -- i could be regrouting the shower!!!" [06:39] jdub: I just had the most perverse idea to integrate it into logrotate, using "include" in unholy ways. [06:39] HrdwrBoB; i use 'sold it to' under transitive closure :) [06:39] infinity: elite! [06:39] infinity: you can include the log definition? [06:39] OH! [06:39] of course you can [06:40] jdub; you will sign my key at guadec. === nomed [n=nomed@host9-61.pool8256.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:40] desrt: yeah I skipped that part because it was in brackets, I would like a replacement parser please [06:40] you're a sicko - good idea! [06:40] jdub: Have a dummy rotatio directive that rotates nothing but runs a script that generated an include dir full of logrotate snippets, then include that directory. === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:40] hi all [06:40] jdub: It feels very, very wrong, and potentially fragile, but worth toying with before I dismiss it. [06:40] jdub: what is the mugshot repo again? [06:41] people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/edgy [06:41] deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/edgy/ ./ === \sh will only sign keys when I see an identity card of the "Transnational Republic" [06:41] cheers [06:41] i'm connected using ssh to a breezy box .. i need to run a debootstrap .. but i get a really strange error : [06:41] NOT THAT I AM RUNNING EDGY YET [06:41] W: Failure trying to run: chroot /home/nomed/chroot mount -t proc proc /proc [06:41] i heard edgy opened === desrt gets excited [06:41] is this a known issue ? [06:41] jdub: hehe. of course not. [06:41] nomed; #ubuntu is a better place for this question [06:42] desrt, do u really think they can help me on this ? [06:42] i've not seen even a bug on debootstrap in launchpad .. [06:42] heh. you could try #debian [06:42] i can try anyway === desrt asked a debootstrap question in #debian once and when i told them i was trying to install ubuntu they kickbanned me === infinity goes to get his nap on before Kinnison wakes up. [06:43] desrt, ehehe [06:43] desrt: #debian is less than friendly, and not entirely representative of the project. [06:43] desrt: When most DDs hop into #debian to help out, they end up leaving again within minutes. [06:43] <\sh> #debian moved to oftc anyways [06:43] anyway it looks really strange ... [06:43] infinity keeps mixing up his words [06:43] he meant [06:43] infinity; this was also back in the warty days when people weren't yet sure about if they hated ubuntu or what [06:44] "#debian is less than friendly, and entirely not representative of the project." [06:44] i can't even use mount as root on that "chroot chroot/" .. [06:44] jdub: I meant the former, actually, but the latter certainly has more spin. [06:44] jdub: I'm willing to admit that some DDs are nearly as hostile as #debian. :) [06:44] <\sh> nomed: sudo mount -o bind -t proc /proc /bla/chroot/proc doesn't work? [06:44] jdub: Just not the project as a whole. [06:44] \sh it works .. [06:44]