[01:08] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:08] <Bluekuja> hello bddebian ;)
[01:08] <bddebian> Hello Bluekuja
[01:09] <LaserJock> hi bddebian, again
[01:10] <bddebian> Heh
[01:11] <Erlang> home made rack from a guy in #programmeur: http://www.mathnet.org/rackmount/ worthy of mention
[01:16] <shawarma> What's the difference between the MOTU team and the ubuntu-dev teams in Launchpad?
[01:16] <LaserJock> not a whole lot
[01:16] <LaserJock> the ubuntu-dev team are the people who have upload rights to Universe/Multiverse
[01:16] <Erlang> well, I guess MOTUs should be mostly be focus around maintaining Universe packages, but I think that this frontier has been blured quite a bit.
[01:17] <BlueT_> morning :)
[01:17] <Erlang> BlueT_: 'vening
[01:17] <LaserJock> the motu LP team is around for somewhat historical reasons
[01:17] <LaserJock> for the universe-bugs
[01:17] <LaserJock> ML
[01:18] <shawarma> LaserJock: Oh, ok. That makes sense. The description for ubuntu-dev reads: "This is the "Masters of the Universe", the general Ubuntu development team which has full upload rights to universe and multiverse" :-)
[01:18] <LaserJock> shawarma: right, so the ubuntu-dev LP team is the real MOTUs
[01:18] <LaserJock> the motu list was for people to get Universe bug reports, I believe
[01:19] <shawarma> Ok.
[01:19] <crimsun> yep, so we could avoid spamming core-dev
[01:19] <LaserJock> but we love spamming them :-)
[01:19] <bddebian> Yeah we do :-)
[01:20] <crimsun> you might, but I value my insanity /and/ my lifespan
[01:21] <LaserJock> hehe, well it is at least nice to seperate out the bugs by Main vs Universe
[01:28] <crimsun> why is that people /always/ file wishlist bugs /after/ final release?
[01:29] <LaserJock> because they wish that the distro had done it before release :-)
[01:29] <shawarma> I have suddenly been blessed with a lot more spare time and so I feel it's time to get back in the MOTU game... What would make sense to do right now? It's my impression that stuff has to be REALLY important to go into Dapper and it's going to be a while before merging from Debian becomes a big thing.. What do you guys do these days?
[01:30] <crimsun> the only things that will enter dapper-updates are really critical bugfixes
[01:30] <LaserJock> shawarma: I think the edgy repos will open fairly shortly
[01:30] <crimsun> edgy should be open within two days, and the massive sync trawl will begin
[01:30] <crimsun> s/with//
[01:30] <shawarma> Ok. Yeah, and then it's pretty obvious what I should be doing. :-)
[01:31] <LaserJock> yeah, I think that will be good. I'd like to test some things in edgy before I do -updates
[01:31] <crimsun> personally I'm drowning in bug reports, and I have three presentations to give this week, so I'll probably be doing not-very-much unless it blows up someone's computer
[01:32] <shawarma> I've been away from any proper Ubuntu work for the last 6 months or so.. Has there been any big changes in procedure? Do I still upload stuff to REVU and ping someone with the proper privileges?
[01:32] <LaserJock> 3 presentatons? ouch.
[01:32] <LaserJock> shawarma: more or less, we are using LP more
[01:32] <LaserJock> using LP teams
[01:33] <crimsun> LaserJock: (well, 5, but the dapper ones for LUGs I'm not counting)
[01:33] <shawarma> LaserJock: I see.. How do I upload stuff to LP?
[01:33] <LaserJock> shawarma: well, you can attach debdiffs to bug reports and assign the motu-reviewers team to get it uploaded
[01:34] <LaserJock> but REVU is still used for new packages
[01:34] <shawarma> LaserJock: I was thinking more in terms for merges from Debian.
[01:34] <shawarma> s/in terms for/in terms of/
[01:35] <LaserJock> shawarma: I think we will probably use a script on the REVU server and file bugs/attach debdiffs
[01:35] <LaserJock> we did that for Dapper towards the end before UVF
[01:36] <shawarma> Hmm.... I'm not sure what you mean, but it'll probably all be glaringly obvious when it becomes relevant in the next few days. :-)
[01:36] <LaserJock> yes
[01:37] <shawarma> So the short story is that right now, there's not a whole lot of stuff I can do to help out?
[01:38] <LaserJock> hmm, I guess there is still bug triaging, we've got lots of uncomfirmed bugs out there
[01:39] <shawarma> I suppose.
[01:41] <shawarma> er.. the MOTU bugs link in topic is broken. Does anyone have it lying around so a new tinyurl can be created?
[01:42] <shawarma> oh... it might be tinyurl that's b0rken.
[01:42] <shawarma> None of the links work right now.
[01:46] <shawarma> It's definitely tinyrl that's b0rken, so never mind.
[01:46] <shawarma> tinyurl, even.
[01:47] <hub> 516MB of packages to pull
[01:47] <hub> dapper - 1.5month
[01:47] <bddebian> w00t
[01:47] <LaserJock> shawarma: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-priority%2C-severity&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.component=4&field.component=3&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&fie
[01:47] <sivang> ouch
[01:47] <LaserJock> oh freaking heck that is huge
[01:48] <shawarma> Yeah. No wonder it was tinyurl'ed.
[02:20] <sivang> hmm, does anybody remember how to tell netstat to not resolve ips and just show ip numbers intead of hostnmaes?
[02:22] <irvin> -n ?
[02:23] <crimsun> yes, -n
[02:33] <LaserJock> darn, specs are very hard to wade through
[03:18] <Optocus> opera from the ubuntu repo won't install on dapper
[03:18] <Optocus> any idea why?
[03:19] <crimsun> that's a #ubuntu question. Use the Debian etch/testing package.
[03:19] <Optocus> crimsun: i thought they would send me to motu because opera is not quite official
[03:20] <crimsun> Optocus: no, it's a "daily use" question.
[03:21] <Optocus> crimsun: it is an xlibs dep problem
[03:21] <Optocus> crimsun: i just wanted to mention this
[03:21] <crimsun> that's beyond our control. Opera operates their repo, not us.
[03:22] <Optocus> crimsun: just in case, this is what apt-get says "Depends: xlib6g (>=3.3.6) but it is not installable or xlibs  but it is not installable"
[03:22] <Optocus> crimsun: i see
[03:23] <DarkMageZ> Optocus, it has been known that if you grab xlibs from the breezy repo, then install opera, it works fine
[03:23] <Optocus> DarkMageZ: cool! thanks
[03:24] <Optocus> DarkMageZ: any idea which breezy repo that is?
[03:24] <crimsun> no, /don't/ do that
[03:24] <Optocus> DarkMageZ: i mean, is it in the universe or the multiverse?
[03:24] <crimsun> use the Debian etch/testing package
[03:24] <crimsun> it has the proper dependencies. Someone needs to punch Opera in the guts.
[03:24] <Optocus> crimsun: of xlibs or of opera?
[03:24] <crimsun> of Opera
[03:25] <crimsun> I'm referring to 9 beta, btw
[03:25] <Optocus> crimsun: but isn't this just the repo you recommend: "http://deb.opera.com/opera/ etch"
[03:25] <Optocus> crimsun: this opera won't work!
[03:25] <crimsun> god no
[03:26] <Optocus> crimsun: really! i myself am aware it's very strange
[03:26] <crimsun> http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?opsys=Linux%20i386&lng=en&ver=9.0b2&platform=Linux%20i386&local=y
[03:29] <Optocus> crimsun: thank you. it's a good suggestion: i heard opera 9 is stable anyway.
[03:30] <Optocus> crimsun: btw, do you think they will soon solve the problem in the repo? is it of any help that i anounced you about it?
[03:30] <crimsun> Optocus: we can't do anything about their repo.
[03:30] <crimsun> and I have no idea if/when they'll fix it
[03:31] <Optocus> crimsun: can't we just add xlibs (or whatever they require) in our repos? it seems this dep is the only problem.
[03:31] <crimsun> Optocus: no, we obsoleted xlibs as of breezy.
[03:31] <crimsun> modular X.Org -> libx11-6 et al.
[03:39] <blanky> hey what's up
[03:40] <Optocus> crimsun: neither does konqueror nor links want to download opera
[03:40] <Optocus> crimsun: they open it as a text file
[03:40] <Optocus> crimsun: which is silly
[03:41] <crimsun> http://www.opera.com/download/get.pl?id=28026,&location=131&nothanks=yes&sub=marine  works for me
[03:43] <Optocus> crimsun: neither does this last url work, but at least this one works in wget. so i simply wgot opera.
[03:43] <Optocus> crimsun: thank you
[03:46] <DarkMageZ> crimsun, that opera 9 beta 2 you linked us to, still depends on xlibs :S
[03:46] <Optocus> crimsun: same deps requiring :((
[03:46] <Optocus> yes
[03:50] <crimsun> Optocus: hmm? I get nothing of the sort.
[03:50] <crimsun> Optocus: you /are/ talking about opera_9.0-20060518.6-shared-qt_en_etch_i386.deb, correct?
[03:50] <Optocus> crimsun: yes
[03:50] <Optocus> crimsun: exactly what you gave me
[03:50] <Optocus> crimsun: are you using dapper?
[03:50] <crimsun> Optocus: then you just need to apt-get -f install
[03:51] <crimsun> it'll pull in the empty transitional xlibs package
[03:51] <Optocus> crimsun: oh, this is the method you're using?
[03:51] <crimsun> Optocus: I used gdebi the second time around, but this method I just described works just fine
[03:53] <Optocus> crimsun: now it says i have a broken package on my system, but opera works. is it wrong? (and thanks anyway)
[03:53] <crimsun> what broken package? And really, these are #ubuntu questions
[03:53] <Optocus> crimsun: opera is broken (in synaptic)
[03:54] <crimsun> Optocus: ``sudo apt-get check'' confirms that?
[03:54] <Optocus> crimsun: sorry for being offtopic here, but the only reason i continued here was that all my other replies are here :(
[03:54] <bddebian> Fuck, I can't fix shit anymore
[03:56] <crimsun> bddebian: b.s. :p
[03:56] <bddebian> No, not B.S. :-(
[03:58] <sander_m> Hello all. I have a quick question: I have developed a Hearts game for GNOME (www.gnome-hearts.org) and I am busy packaging it for Debian (waiting for #369928 to get uploaded). Should I build and upload a separate ubuntu package for MOTU/REVU or can I simply have the Debian package automatically imported and rebuilt in Ubuntu?
[03:59] <Lathiat> sander_m: either would work, the latter is preferable
[04:00] <bddebian> Why?
[04:00] <Lathiat> why what?
[04:01] <crimsun> "why is my pony from bddebian delayed in the post?"
[04:01] <sander_m> Lathiat: Thanks. How would I go about it? Most of the wiki seems to be about manual repackaging of existing packages.
[04:01] <bddebian> Why if it got in Debian would we want to see it on REVU?
[04:01] <Lathiat> bddebian: i said the latter is preferable
[04:01] <bddebian> crimsun: Damn mail server :-)
[04:01] <bddebian> Lathiat: Oh, hehe, sorry I read that wrong
[04:02] <Erlang> sander_m: You mean how to get the package in Debian?
[04:02] <crimsun> sander_m: don't worry about the Ubuntu side right now. Get it into Debian, and it'll be synced into Ubuntu.
[04:02] <sander_m> No, I have that covered. How do I get it into Ubuntu after it has been accepted in debian unstable
[04:02] <sander_m> ah, okay :-) I thought I had to request a sync of my package or something somewhere
[04:03] <Erlang> It'll get synced automagically IMHO
[04:03] <sander_m> Does syncing cover rebuilding as well? It's a C package so there are glibc6 dependency conflicts between debian and ubuntu builds
[04:04] <Lathiat> yep
[04:04] <Lathiat> the source is taken, binary rebuilt
[04:04] <crimsun> sander_m: is it a versioned b-d?
[04:04] <NthDegree> does anyone know how to change the default make settings?
[04:05] <sander_m> the debian version is hearts_0.1-1.
[04:05] <sander_m> I imagine that the ubuntu version would become hearts_0.1-1ubuntu1
[04:05] <crimsun> sander_m: no, hearts_0.1-1 unless we have to make a change.
[04:06] <crimsun> a straight sync is a straight "pull source, throw at buildd" thing
[04:07] <sander_m> No changes needed AFAIK. I built a dapper backage with pbuilder and it works
[04:07] <sander_m> s/backage/package
[04:07] <crimsun> then you have to do nothing.
[04:07] <sander_m> How ofter are (new) packages synced?
[04:08] <Lathiat> depends on the development period
[04:08] <Lathiat> i figure open of edgy there'l be a big mass sync and will continue for a bit
[04:08] <Lathiat> not sure on the schedule
[04:08] <sander_m> Ah, good. I had hoped to be in time for edgy
[04:09] <Erlang> YOu are in advance for Edgy.  It's not open yet.
[04:10] <sander_m> One more question: Are there different universe versions for breezy, dapper, edgy, etcetera? Or is it one big universe and will breezy/dapper people be able to install hearts from universe as well after the sync?
[04:11] <Lathiat> no its per release
[04:11] <crimsun> sander_m: same as in Debian.
[04:12] <sander_m> And the sync will sync it for all releases? Or should I still use REVU for older releases?
[04:13] <Lathiat> older releases dont really get changed
[04:13] <blanky> hey
[04:14] <sander_m> So, if my package gets synced with the edgy mass-sync then dapper people won't be able to use it?
[04:14] <Lathiat> correct
[04:15] <crimsun> well, they won't be able to use it right off the bat.
[04:15] <crimsun> it can always be backported into dapper-backports
[04:16] <sander_m> Ah, I understand. And what group handles the backports?
[04:16] <crimsun> no real group.
[04:16] <crimsun> well, the archive team processes requests, I suppose
[04:16] <Erlang> Under what rules a package can be backported?
[04:17] <crimsun> it has to build unchanged from current development on $stable
[04:17] <Erlang> unchanged?
[04:17] <Erlang> meaning no changes to dependencies too?
[04:18] <sander_m> Ah, just found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports - I'll just file a bug in backports after the sync.
[04:19] <sander_m> Thanks for all the info :-)
[04:59] <ajmitch> afternoon all
[05:05] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[05:05] <\sh> moins
[05:05] <ajmitch> hey bddebian, \sh
[05:08] <\sh> ajmitch: did you ever managed to get a i386 pbuilder on amd64? (no i don't mean debootstrap that works)
[05:09] <ajmitch> hm?
[05:09] <ajmitch> why is that so hard?
[05:09] <ajmitch> I don't think I've setup a new pbuilder here for awhile, just copied the ones I had
[05:10] <\sh> ajmitch: normally not, --debootstrapopts="--arch=i386" but it doesn't work :( a normal debootstrap does work...
[05:15] <\sh> oh and somehow pammount and dm-crypt devices are not working together, even if pammount and cryptosetup says different
[05:15] <\sh> grrr
[05:15] <\sh> or I'm too stoopid
[05:47] <Optocus> crimsun: what if we just added xlibs (which is about 90 kb only!) to dapper, just as a dep for opera, and just for now?
[05:49] <\sh> Optocus: for what?
[05:49] <Optocus> crimsun: \sh please read our discussion about two hour earlier
[05:49] <bddebian> \sh: Opera
[05:49] <\sh> Optocus: opera should provide a special ubuntu package, and not broken packages if they want to support ubuntu users
[05:50] <Optocus> \sh please read our discussion about two hour earlier
[05:50] <Optocus> sorry
[05:50] <Optocus> \sh: only for now
[05:50] <Optocus> \sh: please? :D
[05:50] <\sh> Optocus: what is "for now"? now is "edgy"...not dapper anymore :)
[05:51] <Erlang> \sh: about pbuilder and debootstrap...
[05:51] <Erlang> \sh: have you tried
[05:51] <Erlang> something like
[05:51] <\sh> Optocus: please write opera to provide new packages
[05:51] <Erlang> --debootstrapopt --arch --debootstrapopt i386 ?
[05:51] <\sh> Erlang: yes
[05:51] <\sh> Erlang: and I read http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pbuilder-maint/2005-October/000019.html
[05:52] <\sh> Erlang: no change on dapper...i still fetches amd64 packages and not like debootstrap only i386 packages :(
[05:52] <\sh> Erlang: I have a i386 debootstrap chroot running on my amd64 box, but I won't succeed in pbuilder :(
[05:52] <Erlang> ok.  I had falses hopes it was actually working yesterday.
[05:53] <Erlang> \sh: I thought about creating a pbuilder .tgz for i386 on a 32 bit chroot and then moving it out to the AMD64.
[05:54] <\sh> Erlang: that would be one possible solution for people which have i386 machines :)
[05:54] <\sh> s/which/who/
[05:55] <\sh> Erlang: but it's documented on pbuilders homepage and on some other resources, so it should work somehow
[05:55] <Erlang> well, I mean creating it in the i386 chroot.  Creating a i386 chroot on a i386 chroot works right?
[05:55] <\sh> Erlang: should...
[05:55] <Erlang> it doesn't?
[05:55] <\sh> I will try
[05:55] <Erlang> I have not tried myself...
[05:56] <Erlang> One could even create an pbuilder tgz inside a qemu VM.
[05:58] <\sh> Optocus: the other possibility is that opera is releasing the source, so that real packager can package it the correct way
[05:59] <Optocus> \sh: i then hope they will release their source soon
[05:59] <\sh> Optocus: they won't :)
[05:59] <Optocus> \sh: well, then this is not "another possibility" :)
[05:59] <Erlang> \sh: poke me if it works.  I'm away.
[05:59] <Optocus> Seveas: you there?
[05:59] <\sh> Erlang: k
[06:00] <Optocus> Seveas: (i hope you followed our opera discussion) please add xlibs to your repo (for dapper): it is the only way opera can be installed for now. you find it in breezy and it's just about 90kb.
[06:11] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:11] <\sh> cu bddebian good night :)
[06:11] <bddebian> :-)
[06:49] <Hobbsee> hi everyone
[06:49] <\sh> moins Hobbsee
[07:27] <Optocus> Seveas: are you there?
[07:27] <\sh> it's 7:27 in germany and netherlands ;)
[07:28] <Hobbsee> \sh: your reasoning?  no one should ever sleep :P
[07:28] <\sh> Optocus: I wonder if dennis is awake...he's not crazy like me to get up at 3 o'clock :)
[07:28] <\sh> which is 1:00 UTC
[07:31] <Optocus> \sh: dennis is seveas?
[07:32] <\sh> Optocus: yes...whois seveas
[07:37] <Laser_away> woot!
[07:38] <Hobbsee>  hey Laser_away
[07:39] <Laser_away> I got Dapper installed on my laptop
[07:44] <\sh> Laser_away: already did it many times *eg*
[07:45] <Hobbsee> hehe
[07:45] <Laser_away> this laptop has never seen linux
[07:45] <Laser_away> it is my wifes
[07:45] <Laser_away> but I"m going to need to take it to Paris
[07:45] <Laser_away> so it needed a makeover ;-)
[07:46] <Laser_away> 'cause I think I'd be kicked out if I showed up with my Windows XP+Putty setup :-)
[07:46] <tritium> Laser_away: you're going to Paris?
[07:47] <tritium> hi, by the way ;)
[07:47] <Laser_away> tritium: yes, I got sponsored
[07:47] <Laser_away> and hi!
[07:47] <tritium> Ah, nice.  Congrats.  :)
[07:48] <Laser_away> thanks, I really didn't expect it
[07:49] <ajmitch> next thing you know you'll be working fulltime for them...
[07:49] <tritium> Cool.  I just got back home from my 10 yr. reunion
[07:49] <tritium> hi ajmitch
[07:49] <Laser_away> ajmitch: I think not
[07:49] <ajmitch> hello tritium
[07:49] <ajmitch> Laser_away: I didn't say you'd get paid ;)
[07:49] <Laser_away> I'm realizing just how terrible I am at this and I really do like chemistry
[07:50] <Hobbsee> hey tritium
[07:50] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
[07:50] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
[07:50] <Laser_away> although I'm starting to think about scientific software development
[07:50] <\sh> Laser_away: congrats for the sponsoring :) you will have a nice time in paris ;) let raphink show you the hidden places in paris where men have to go when they are in paris ;)
[07:51] <tritium> Hi Hobbsee
[07:51] <Laser_away> \sh: I'm not sure if raphink will be there (he got a job in Nice) and I should probably stay away from hidden places ;-)
[07:52] <\sh> Laser_away: I think he will be there :)
[07:52] <Laser_away> he was talking about comming up for the weekend since it is hi birthday and his parents are in Paris
[07:52] <ajmitch> \sh: that's a shame
[07:52] <Laser_away> ajmitch: that is too bad, really
[07:53] <ajmitch> it happens
[07:53] <\sh> ajmitch: Monday 19th to Friday 23rd June 2006, won't fit in my time schedule...if it was over the weekend, I could have tried
[07:54] <ajmitch> it wasn't too likely that I would have been sponsored :)
[07:54] <ajmitch> \sh: I'm the same, I can't be away that week
[07:56] <\sh> ajmitch: but for me it's just a couple of kilometers away, for you several thousands ;)
[07:56] <ajmitch> yes, it'd be at least 2 days flying :)
[07:57] <Laser_away> I would almost rather have waited for a dev conference when more of the people I know (MOTUs and doc people) were there
[07:57] <ajmitch> why?
[07:57] <Laser_away> because I'd like to meet you guys (and Hobbsee) in person some time
[07:58] <Hobbsee> Laser_away: that could be fun :)
[07:58] <ajmitch> maybe in another couple of years
[07:59] <Hobbsee> Laser_away: is there some form of conference that we're more likely to all be at?
[08:00] <ajmitch> a big, canonical-funded release party?
[08:00] <Optocus> Laser_away: um, are you really _away?
[08:00] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: mmm...could be fun :)
[08:01] <\sh> ajmitch: but we need to have a place which is in the middle of the earth ;)
[08:01] <\sh> the same distance for everyone
[08:01] <\sh> which could be a ship...in the middle of the pacific ocean
[08:02] <\sh> MS Shuttleworth ;)
[08:02] <Hobbsee> \sh: antarctica?
[08:02] <Laser_away> Optocus: I should be and I was too lazy to change my nick
[08:02] <\sh> Hobbsee: most likely
[08:02] <\sh> This is a summary of all `failed' messages and warnings:
[08:02] <\sh> `pdfetex -ini  -jobname=latex -progname=latex -translate-file=cp227.tcx *latex.ini' failed
[08:02] <\sh> `pdfetex -ini  -jobname=pdflatex -progname=pdflatex -translate-file=cp227.tcx *pdflatex.ini' failed
[08:02] <\sh> `etex -ini  -jobname=jadetex -progname=jadetex &latex jadetex.ini' failed
[08:02] <\sh> `pdfetex -ini  -jobname=pdfjadetex -progname=pdfjadetex &pdflatex pdfjadetex.ini' failed
[08:02] <\sh> joy
[08:02] <ajmitch> most regular flights to antarctica go from NZ
[08:02] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I thought you didn't like the cold?
[08:02] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i dont.
[08:03] <Optocus> \sh: shouldn't it be Mr Shuttleworth?
[08:03] <Optocus> \sh: i mean.. why Ms?
[08:03] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: snow is fun though - and worth doubling my body mass for, with the addition of many warm jackets :P
[08:04] <\sh> Optocus: MS because most of the big ocean ships are named MS
[08:04] <Optocus> \sh: oh, didn't make the connection
[08:05] <ivoks> \sh: mother ship
[08:05] <Hobbsee> oh...i notice that either :P
[08:05] <Hobbsee> ivoks: gotcha
[08:05] <ivoks> \sh: you can find MS only on boots that are from that ship
[08:05] <ivoks> like rescue boats :)
[08:05] <ivoks> s/boots/boats :)
[08:06] <\sh> ivoks: no..e.g. MS AIDAAURA
[08:07] <Laser_away> isn't MS more of a british term
[08:07] <\sh> Length: 203.2m - width: 28.1m - gauge: 6.3m
[08:07] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: besides, in really cold places, they tend to have fireplaces :)
[08:08] <ajmitch> not here
[08:08] <Laser_away> I'm not terribly fond of the cold, and I'm not terribly fond of heat. I like it in between
[08:08] <\sh> http://www.cruiseferry.de/dschiffe.html
[08:08] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe - just dont freeze before your plane trip :P
[08:08] <ivoks> \sh: but.... the name of the ship is AIDAura
[08:08] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: then you can thaw out
[08:08] <\sh> ivoks: no it's MS AIDAURA :)
[08:09] <ivoks> \sh: http://www.kreuzfahrten-pool.de/aidaaura-8-S.html
[08:09] <ivoks> \sh: or http://www.cruiseferry.de/aidaaura.html
[08:09] <Laser_away> oh, the british use HMS (His/Her Majesty's Ship or something)
[08:09] <\sh> ivoks: "Kreuzfahrtschiff MS AIDAaura" the headline ;)
[08:10] <ivoks> ms is... ah, let's drop it...
[08:10] <\sh> doesn't matter
[08:11] <Laser_away> darn, 424 packages to update, I should have just downloaded the final .iso instead of trying to use the Beta
[08:12] <ajmitch> it's so annoying, not having anything to update each day
[08:12] <ajmitch> I should go back to debian so I can get my daily fix
[08:12] <Laser_away> I know
[08:13] <Laser_away> I keep apt-get updating in hopes of something from dapper-updates
[08:13] <ivoks> ajmitch: well...
[08:13] <Hobbsee> hehe!  so that's not only me then!
[08:13] <ivoks> ajmitch: if you have printers and want to test something...
[08:13] <Laser_away> DUA?
[08:13] <Hobbsee> (dist-upgrade anonymous)
[08:14] <Laser_away> hehe
[08:14] <ajmitch> ivoks: 1 printer, using jetdirect protocol
[08:14] <Hobbsee> then again, i will get to reinstall probably - from flight 4, then dist-upgrade to edgy.  or something.
[08:15] <ivoks> ajmitch: well, just for the sake of fun, you can put http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/cups in your sources.list :)
[08:15] <Laser_away> ajmitch: maybe you should keep an experimental chroot around to feed your habit
[08:16] <ajmitch> Laser_away: I do
[08:16] <Hobbsee> ivoks: is that because you got blasted by the other guy, the other day?  :P
[08:16] <Hobbsee> er, scratch that.
[08:16] <ajmitch> ivoks: what's so special about this package?
[08:16] <ivoks> Hobbsee: no, that guy has some mental issues :)
[08:16] <Hobbsee> i dont know *where* i was going with that.
[08:17] <Hobbsee> ivoks: hehe - i was watching it - but decided to stay well awya from it :P
[08:17] <ivoks> Hobbsee: but cups in dapper has some seriuos bugs
[08:17] <\sh> ivoks: your package doesn't fix them all ;)
[08:17] <Hobbsee> ivoks: tell me about it.  more to the point, dont tell me, i already know, and i've already seen so many complaints over it.
[08:17] <ivoks> \sh: that's true, but fixes at least 10 of them, which is 10% :)
[08:17] <\sh> ivoks: read kurt pfeifles blog entries on planet.kde.org
[08:18] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: #kubuntu a few days back - some guy ranting.
[08:18] <ivoks> \sh: i did... that's the guy with mental issues :)
[08:18] <\sh> ivoks: no...it's the guy who drank beer with us and Till from Linuxprinting.org ;)
[08:18] <tritium> Hobbsee: that guy actually ranted on Slashdot too
[08:18] <Hobbsee> tritium: *groan*
[08:18] <ivoks> \sh: that's the guy that doesn't understand what's feature freeze
[08:19] <ajmitch> ivoks: most don't
[08:19] <ajmitch> but who is this person?
[08:19] <\sh> ivoks: the discussion about cups 1.2 svn version started already in the beginning of dapper
[08:19] <Laser_away> neither do a lot of MOTUs and core-devs :-)
[08:19] <ivoks> \sh: i don't want to talk about KDE untill they *do* something with kdeprinting
[08:19] <\sh> ivoks: and till and kurt were talking about this all the time.
[08:19] <\sh> ivoks: till is not kde, but cups
[08:20] <ivoks> \sh: i know, but this ranting guy is from KDE
[08:20] <Laser_away> hmm, I've never had a problem with cups, but I really don't use it much
[08:20] <ivoks> instead of ranting, they could at least change website for kde printing, which states Latest News: 2002.
[08:20] <\sh> ivoks: are you going to paris? most likely you will meet him :)
[08:21] <ivoks> \sh: no, i'm not
[08:21] <Hobbsee> ivoks: and on that note, what a *pity* that you wont get the great honour of meeting him :P
[08:21] <\sh> ivoks: ok..then you have to come to cologne in november to the linux world expo :)
[08:21] <ivoks> \sh: hardly... i don't like KDE :)
[08:21] <\sh> ivoks: no to meet me ;)
[08:23] <ivoks> that guy wanted us to include snmp discovery which: a) was included after feature freeze and b) didn't compile on all platforms
[08:23] <ivoks> and i'm not sure it's even fixed in 1.2.1
[08:23] <ivoks> :)
[08:25] <\sh> well, as I said the last time: the problem will be fixed, if you throw away your printer and just use pdf as print out
[08:25] <ivoks> otoh, he has a point with livecd bugs
[08:26] <ajmitch> or I could close firefox...
[08:27] <ivoks> time to go...
[08:27] <ivoks> see you guys
[08:27] <Optocus> anybody have any idea at about what time Seveas comes online?
[08:28] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: haha.  close firefox :P
[08:28] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's been open only three weeks, right?
[08:29] <ajmitch> 3 days :P
[08:29] <ajmitch> ajmitch    426  2.2 34.4 621892 352748 ?       Rl   Jun02 115:28 /usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin -a firefox
[08:29] <Hobbsee> bah.  pathetic.  :P
[08:30] <Laser_away> Hobbsee: do you use FF or konqi?
[08:30] <Hobbsee> Laser_away: firefox for webbrowsing.  of course.
[08:30] <\sh> all those ricers
[08:31] <Laser_away> \sh: what's xgl? ;-)
[08:31] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:31] <Laser_away> Hobbsee: of course? lots of KDErs use konqi for web browsing
[08:31] <Hobbsee> Laser_away: true
[08:31] <\sh> Laser_away: konqui only...because it's fast :)
[08:32] <Hobbsee> for the howto, for getting the mozilla binaries of firefox :P
[08:32] <DarkMageZ> \sh, xgl & compiz are really useable, it depends on how well you setup your system
[08:32] <ajmitch> \sh: but ubuntu is the new ricer distro
[08:32] <\sh> DarkMageZ: no..it's a pain for users....with all this ati and nvidia crap.....
[08:33] <DarkMageZ> \sh, you want some help? ati or nvidia be you?
[08:33] <ajmitch> heh
[08:33] <Optocus> Laser_away: what is konqi? is it a nickname for konqueror?
[08:34] <Laser_away> Optocus: yes
[08:34] <\sh> DarkMageZ: no..i'm on i915 and I don't want to have a work processor which is flying in 3d space or waving around
[08:34] <Laser_away> I don't use X enough to warrant using Xgl, so I've never even tried it
[08:34] <ajmitch> & i915 really isn't that fast
[08:34] <ajmitch> Laser_away: it's just extra shiny bling, nothing really useful
[08:35] <\sh> ajmitch: not on this r200 ;)
[08:35] <whiprush_> ajmitch: aiglx is much better for intel cards
[08:35] <ajmitch> whiprush_: I know
[08:35] <whiprush_> I have it on my X40 with an i855 and it's not so bad.
[08:35] <ajmitch> \sh: why do you say that?
[08:35] <whiprush_> too bad to use everyday though.
[08:35] <Hobbsee> whiprush_: thanks, i'll have to remember that.
[08:35] <whiprush_> aiglx is in x7.1 anyway isn't it?
[08:35] <\sh> whiprush_: but aiglx is a different approach :)
[08:35] <whiprush_> yeah
[08:36] <ajmitch> different implementation, same basic idea
[08:36] <DarkMageZ> \sh, well, if u want to not hear xgl stuff, tell them they are in the wrong channel, and point them to #ubuntu-xgl :)
[08:36] <whiprush_> well, you can run compiz on both, so you're stuck with the same bugginess anyway. :D
[08:36] <\sh> ajmitch: because with 1.2GHz and 1.2kg...and the heat, you know
[08:37] <ajmitch> heh
[08:37] <ajmitch> yeah, my laptop's a 2GHz thing, 1GB RAM
[08:37] <\sh> DarkMageZ: the problem is, that they are trying out unsupported software...and then they are pissed, if I tell them: go away, xgl is unsupported, you are alone
[08:37] <\sh> DarkMageZ: or write to novell
[08:38] <\sh> on german channels that is
[08:39] <kagou> hi
[08:40] <DarkMageZ> \sh, oh, i see, since we don't support german in #ubuntu-xgl they bug people in the ubuntu-german huh?
[08:43] <\sh> DarkMageZ: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2006-June/080790.html not only on german channels ;)
[08:43] <\sh> oh joy
[08:44] <DarkMageZ> hmm, i don't have any idea's for the german channel, but for the english, compiz.net or #ubuntu-xgl is where to tell em to go :)
[08:45] <\sh> DarkMageZ: or don't use xgl at all, because it's unsupported ;)
[08:45] <\sh> DarkMageZ: and wait for official releases with support
[08:45] <DarkMageZ> or both :)
[08:45] <\sh> Hobbsee: what was the QList replacement in qt3? ;)
[08:46] <Hobbsee> \sh: what?  no idea, i only heard about qlist yesterday...
[08:48] <\sh> bah...this source is crap
[08:48] <ajmitch> heh
[08:48] <\sh> ajmitch: oh well, qlist is still valid in qt1/2 but not in qt3 :(
[08:48] <ajmitch> you're trying to port some really old source?
[08:51] <\sh> ajmitch: no..it should work with qt3 ...but somehow it's build on SuSE...novell crap
[08:53] <ajmitch> typical
[08:54] <\sh> and qlist.h is deprecated for qt3, and replaced by qvaluelist in qvariant.h ... oh joy...patching
[09:26] <NthDegree> \sh, I had the most heletic time with xfs :P I got kernel panics on boot
[09:26] <\sh> NthDegree: hum?
[09:26] <Hobbsee> what happened there?
[09:26] <\sh> NthDegree: don't use it on the boot partition when you are using grub or lilo...so /boot shouldn't be xfs :)
[09:26] <NthDegree> i made /boot ext3
[09:27] <\sh> NthDegree: what kernel panics you got?
[09:27] <NthDegree> and /var a 20GB and /usr 20GB
[09:27] <NthDegree> it was to do with syncing disks
[09:27] <NthDegree> i needed to remove the splash to see it
[09:27] <\sh> hmm?
[09:32] <NthDegree> back :)
[09:56] <tuxmaniac> is there any minimal ubuntu install
[09:56] <tuxmaniac> i mean without Desktop enviroment
[09:57] <Gloubiboulga> tuxmaniac, yes, the server install
[09:59] <Optocus> tuxmaniac: i think not
[10:00] <\sh> there is, named ubuntu server ;)
[10:00] <\sh> or debootstrap ;)
[10:01] <tuxmaniac> \sh: how much is the installation size?
[10:01] <tuxmaniac> of ubuntu server i mean
[10:03] <\sh> tuxmaniac: not much...I don't know exactly
[10:04] <tuxmaniac> less than 100 MB?
[10:05] <\sh> tuxmaniac: I can't tell right now...wait for tomorrow, when I'm back in the office
[10:05] <tuxmaniac> \sh: aah ok
[10:32] <NthDegree> hey \sh I just compiled my 1st kernel I think
[10:32] <\sh> NthDegree: why?
[10:32] <NthDegree> so I could remove all unnecessary drivers etc.
[10:33] <NthDegree> and because I wanted to compile a fresh kernel from ubuntu repos
[10:33] <\sh> NthDegree: you know then it's unsupported...and I hope you used make-kpkg
[10:33] <NthDegree> ummmm.........
[10:34] <NthDegree> i used the traditional make
[10:34] <\sh> so you don't have a debian package ;)
[10:35] <NthDegree> well don't you just dump the executable into the boot partition and use grub to boot it?
[10:35] <ajmitch> no
[10:37] <\sh> not on debian systems
[10:37] <\sh> on suse yes, or redhat, also yes, and on gentoo actually, but not never nono on debian systems ;)
[10:37] <NthDegree> oops
[10:43] <NthDegree> so what do i have to get to make as a debian/ubuntu package?
[10:47] <\sh> man make-kpkg
[10:47] <NthDegree> i don't have that command
[10:48] <\sh> sudo apt-get install kernel-package
[10:49] <NthDegree> thatnks
[10:49] <NthDegree> thanks**
[10:50] <\sh> ok one more cigarette and then I'm trying to sleep at least 2 hours...I'm awake since 3am utc+2
[10:50] <NthDegree> well i only got 3 hous sleep
[10:50] <NthDegree> i had a friggin queen wasp in my room all night
[10:50] <NthDegree> and it woke me up - i didn't notice it all night
[11:08] <imbrandon_> morning everyone
[11:09] <sivang> morning
[11:39] <siretart> hi folks
[11:45] <ajmitch> hey siretart
[11:48] <ajmitch> yay, another pointless osnews rant
[11:53] <sivang> hey siretart
[11:53] <siretart> heyho sivang
[11:55] <sivang> siretart: how's the weather over there? how you been ?
[11:55] <siretart> sivang: oh, thanks I'm fine. the last days we had nice sunshine, today it's rather cloudy. how are you?
[12:02] <sivang> siretart: good , catching on loads of -devel and other MLs backlogs
[12:03] <siretart> :)
[12:04] <ajmitch> heh
[12:04] <ajmitch> I should just mark them all as read
[12:15] <ajmitch> sigh
[12:15] <ajmitch> bugs like bug 48312 annoy me
[12:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48312 in boot "nice try....but this is alpha at best" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48312
[12:17] <jpatrick> that was stupid
[12:17] <ajmitch> yep
[12:17] <ajmitch> and then you have eugenia filing bugs
[12:18] <ajmitch> which is always fun
[12:18] <zul> oooh...example
[12:18] <ajmitch> bug 47949
[12:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47949 in grub-installer "let user boot random unknown OSes by some kind of magic" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47949
[12:18] <ajmitch> instructing kamion on why he shouldn't reject her bugs
[12:19] <tseng> "by some kind of magic" probably has a thing do to with it
[12:19] <ajmitch> kamion changed that bug title
[12:19] <tseng> but its a good thing she popped her ugly head up to start filing bugs after release
[12:22] <ajmitch> yes, it's always appreciated to be forcefully instructed what to do about bugs
[12:22] <tseng> one day it will occur to her that no one boots 6 os's
[12:22] <tseng> on one pc
[12:23] <jpatrick> I only have one
[12:23] <tseng> in bugzilla
[12:23] <tseng> you can lock a bug
[12:24] <ajmitch> something that's needed for malone
[12:24] <ajmitch> to avoid submitters reopening rejected bugs
[12:25] <zul> fun fun...http://eugenia.blogsome.com/2006/06/01/ubuntu-606-doesnt-work-for-me/
[12:26] <ajmitch> oh yes, she can be quite shrill
[12:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45309 in sun-java5 "sun-java5 dlj license needs clarifications" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45309
[12:28] <AnAnt> shawarma: the splash thing worked, thanks for your help
[12:50] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[12:52] <jpatrick> hi Toadstool
[12:52] <Toadstool> hey jpatrick
[02:19] <zul> its quiet
[02:23] <\sh> sivang: i can imagine...all these wireless cables hanging around..terrible ;)
[02:29] <sivang> \sh: hhe, yeah
[03:20] <ajmitch> time to prepare stuff for dapper-updates
[03:20] <tseng> yay, updates
[03:21] <Hobbsee> yay!
[03:21] <tseng> yay, Hobbsees
[03:21] <ajmitch> hello tseng, Hobbsee
[03:21] <tseng> hi
[03:21] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch and tseng
[03:22] <ajmitch> I suppose I'd better find out how the rules file goes
[03:22] <ajmitch> considering I now maintain the package
[03:22] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: what do you now maintain?
[03:22] <ajmitch> a php package
[03:23] <Hobbsee> fun
[03:23] <ajmitch> if I can be bothered, I should rewrite the packaging
[03:23] <zul> ajmitch: is dapper-updates open now
[03:24] <ajmitch> yes, it's been open for awhile
[03:27] <sivang> hey there Hobbsee
[03:27] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:32] <pschulz01> Greetings... How do I go about getting a package into MOTU?
[03:33] <Hobbsee> pschulz01: what package?  is it in debian already?
[03:34] <pschulz01> Hi Hobbsee... no.. It's called 'yaagc'. http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/yaAGC.html
[03:34] <Hobbsee> pschulz01: that looks very sciency...
[03:34] <pschulz01> I have created a deb, but there is a lot of QA required on the software.
[03:35] <pschulz01> I'm in touch with the 'upstream' but I still have a lot to learn about debs.
[03:35] <pschulz01> :-) -
[03:35] <Hobbsee> Laser_away: around?
[03:37] <pschulz01> It would fit under 'science'.
[03:39] <pschulz01> Do I approach debian?
[03:40] <Hobbsee> pschulz01: Laser_away is the one who usually does the science-y stuff, but you're welcome to package it :)
[03:40] <Hobbsee> see the topic for info on how to package
[03:40] <pschulz01> Hobbsee: I've packaged it.. (well, as nicely as I can)
[03:41] <Hobbsee> pschulz01: do you have the source?
[03:41] <pschulz01> Hobbsee: Yes..
[03:42] <pschulz01> Hobbsee: Do I need to specify my changes as a 'diff'?
[03:43] <Hobbsee> pschulz01: i believe that one of the MOTU's has a look at the source
[03:44] <pschulz01> I'll put it on a website then...
[03:45] <pschulz01> .. and then come back. Is there an email for Laser_away?
[03:45] <ajmitch> if it's a new package, put it on REVU
[03:45] <pschulz01> How? Sorry, new to REVU/MOTU.
[03:46] <pschulz01> Ahhh.. found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[03:49] <pschulz01> To confirm.. the steps are 1) Send keyid to keyring@tiber.tauware.de. 2) Upload package.
[03:50] <ajmitch> send key, wait for key to be added to keyring, then upload
[03:51] <pschulz01> ajmitch, approx. 5 mins?
[03:51] <pschulz01> ajmitch, approx. 5 mins to wait?
[03:52] <ajmitch> it's added by a person :)
[03:54] <pschulz01> ajmitch, cheers.. is just the 8 hexdigit key required? (My key has been loaded into launchpad)
[03:54] <ajmitch> yes
[03:54] <ajmitch> sign your email too
[03:55] <pschulz01> ajmitch, Hmm.. lucky you said that... I was about to use gmail.
[04:00] <pschulz01> ajmitch, email away :-)
[04:00] <ajmitch> ok
[04:01] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:02] <ajmitch> hi bddebian
[04:02] <ajmitch> pschulz01: done
[04:02] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[04:03] <ajmitch> pschulz01: a password will be created when you upload your first package, the username being the email address on the gpg key
[04:06] <pschulz01> ajmitch: My packaging isn't very 'nice', but it does produce a deb. It is also isn't complete.. not all binaries a built. Happy to upload it though.
[04:07] <ajmitch> you'll eventually get people reviewing it & commenting on it
[04:07] <bddebian> That reminds me, how far behind are we on REVU?
[04:07] <pschulz01> Cool! I hope they don't throwup first though.
[04:07] <ajmitch> bddebian: probably very far
[04:08] <bddebian> Yeah, I was thinking about hitting REVU for a little bit
[04:08] <bddebian> Though I am probably not the worlds greatest reviewer :-(
[04:09] <\sh> go for it barry
[04:09] <Hobbsee> hey bddebian
[04:09] <ajmitch> as long as you get most of the problems & give some helpful tips, it's fine
[04:10] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[04:13] <bddebian> k-p-l?
[04:18] <pschulz01> ajmitch, Uploading source...
[04:21] <pschulz01> ajmitch, Having a problem...thought the upload was having problems with not being 'passive' ftp.. so I stoped it..
[04:22] <ajmitch> and now you can't upload
[04:22] <pschulz01> :-)
[04:22] <pschulz01> (Sorry to be a pain.)
[04:22] <ajmitch> I've cleared it
[04:23] <pschulz01> Trying again..
[04:23] <pschulz01> Thanks.
[04:23] <pschulz01> (Slow dialup connection)
[04:24] <Hobbsee> icky.  dont remind me!
[04:25] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: only one update for dapper?
[04:25] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: there will be more :P
[04:25] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: haha.   let them have a break :P
[04:25] <Hobbsee> they cant upload yet anyway...
[04:25] <Hobbsee> it's the *one* chance for them all to be a bit crazy
[04:25] <ajmitch> no, but there are people doing work for dapper-updatesa
[04:26] <Hobbsee> true
[04:26] <ajmitch> hm, TB meeting in 6 hours
[04:26] <ajmitch> 8AM is far too early to wake up
[04:27] <tseng> ajmitch: i am dying
[04:27] <bddebian> 6 hours??
[04:27] <bddebian> Today is only 6/5
[04:27] <tseng> i walked this guy through building an ubuntu box with ethereal in another data center
[04:27] <ajmitch> ok, sorry
[04:27] <tseng> he gets 2 more servers for it
[04:27] <ajmitch> bddebian: you said 20:00, I thought you meant today :)
[04:27] <tseng> some admins out there insist on installing suse
[04:27] <ajmitch> sad
[04:27] <jsgotangco> tsk
[04:27] <bddebian> ajmitch: 6/6 :-)
[04:27] <tseng> i am not testing/supporting my code on suse
[04:28] <tseng> sucks to be him.
[04:28] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: whiner.
[04:28] <bddebian> hehe
[04:28] <ajmitch> bddebian: already 6/6 here
[04:28] <bddebian> Ack
[04:28] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you're so kind
[04:28] <Hobbsee> !
[04:28] <\sh> TB meeting?
[04:29] <\sh> should I put my name on the list for ubuntu-dev rights? ;)
[04:29] <ajmitch> \sh: depends if they'll have you
[04:29] <bddebian> \sh: Nah, you are banned ;-P
[04:29] <\sh> bddebian: I'm deactivated btw ;)
[04:30] <bddebian> :'-(
[04:31] <ajmitch> pschulz01_away: you did upload the .changes file, right?
[04:31] <ajmitch> ah, it's still uploading..
[04:32] <Hobbsee> bddebian: go for it
[04:32] <zul> \sh: go for it
[04:32] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Go for what?
[04:32] <Hobbsee> bddebian: whatever you were goign to go for in the TB meeting tomorrow...
[04:32] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: we're still waiting for you to apply
[04:33] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: keep waiting :P
[04:33] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Oh I have applied for main, though I am not sure why :)
[04:33] <Hobbsee> bddebian: that's what i thought at first, then wondered if you had MOTU rights at all
[04:33] <\sh> Hobbsee: bddebian was my padavan
[04:33] <bddebian> \sh: :-)
[04:33] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:34] <Hobbsee> hey!  i'ts after midnight, and i've forgotten who i sent various bits to...
[04:34] <Hobbsee> i think i sent them to you, ajmitch and zaka*me...and maybe a couple of dholbach.
[04:34] <Hobbsee> too many to remmeber.
[04:35] <ajmitch> someone says 'too many to remember' & still doesn't want to go for MOTU...
[04:35] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, you should.
[04:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:35] <Hobbsee> that was more or less the same thing over and over :P
[04:37] <bddebian> :-)
[04:56] <Hobbsee> pschulz01_away: another aussie hey?  cool
[04:56] <ajmitch> sigh, not another one...
[04:57] <zul> thats what the world needs more dingos
[04:58] <bddebian> hehe
[04:59] <Hobbsee> hehe @ ajmitch
[04:59] <Hobbsee> just another one, to boss you around :P
[05:01] <ajmitch> yay
[05:02] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:46] <thierryn> lifeless : ping
[06:07] <lifeless> thierryn: whats up ?
[06:25] <thierryn> lifeless : could you change the topic? I think we are no longer in feature freeze since dapper is out :P
[06:35] <tuxmaniac> heya gang
[06:38] <phanatic> hi people
[06:38] <bddebian> Heya phanatic
[06:38] <phanatic> heya bddebian
[06:53] <NthDegree> does anyone know how to change the gcc version used for compiling
[06:54] <\sh> CC=gcc-3.3 e.g.
[06:54] <NthDegree> thanks
[06:54] <NthDegree> i'm trying to make a wine x86_64 package
[06:54] <NthDegree> and it gives me this error checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
[06:55] <\sh> hahaha
[06:55] <\sh> NthDegree: that won't work
[06:55] <NthDegree> does now
[06:55] <\sh> NthDegree: you won't get it running ;)
[06:55] <NthDegree> well after putting your example it is configuring
[06:55] <\sh> NthDegree: you can run 64bit applications of windows with it :)
[06:56] <\sh> NthDegree: but no 32bit applications on 64bit ;)
[06:56] <\sh> NthDegree: and I think that's what you want
[06:56] <NthDegree> actually windows has it's own compatibility layer for that
[06:56] <\sh> NthDegree: windows yes, but not wine
[06:56] <NthDegree> but i'm kinda doing this to fill a hole in the package repos
[06:57] <\sh> NthDegree: and if you compile wine on amd64 you'll get 64bit support, but no 32bit support
[06:57] <\sh> NthDegree: hole in the package repos?
[06:57] <NthDegree> i know
[06:57] <NthDegree> and it won't compile :(
[06:57] <crimsun> wouldn't you want a "32-bit" wine in a "32-bit" chroot, then?
[06:58] <NthDegree> crimsun there is no 64 bit wine package right now
[06:58] <NthDegree> isn't it better to fill a gap as some apps may need it
[06:59] <\sh> NthDegree: with purpose
[06:59] <\sh> NthDegree: the 64bit support is very unstable
[06:59] <\sh> NthDegree: and there are no 64bit windows applications at all
[06:59] <NthDegree> i can tell, it wont compile easily
[06:59] <crimsun> I'm fairly certain \sh tried this many months ago.
[07:00] <\sh> NthDegree: I was reponsible for the package...I know about what I'm talking
[07:00] <NthDegree> why is it that barely anything seems to compile for me
[07:00] <\sh> crimsun: well, yes :)
[07:02] <NthDegree> \sh have you any tips for making a good system for compiling source code
[07:02] <NthDegree> i feel like i'm missing something massively
[07:02] <\sh> NthDegree: pbuilder?
[07:02] <\sh> NthDegree: or a debootstrap chroot for testing
[07:03] <NthDegree> i've never done a proper chroot before, except in gentoo
[07:03] <LaserJock> NthDegree: the question might be, what are you trying to do?
[07:03] <LaserJock> build packages?
[07:03] <\sh> NthDegree: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
[07:07] <NthDegree> ok i'm setting it up
[07:07] <NthDegree> i take it that this is like having a separate system
[07:07] <ajmitch> yep
[07:07] <\sh> NthDegree: exactly
[07:08] <NthDegree> ah poo lol if only I had known then I wouldn't have clogged up this system with development bits
[07:08] <_ion> nthdegree: sudo debfoster
[07:09] <NthDegree> debfoster?
[07:10] <_ion> nthdegree: You may install development stuff temporarily with apt-get and then remove them with debfoster. To install stuff "permanently" you may run sudo debfoster packagename
[07:10] <NthDegree> oh
[07:10] <_ion> nthdegree: Of course that doesn't remove the need for a chroot environment for testing.
[07:10] <_ion> But that is handy for development.
[07:11] <NthDegree> i'll probably have to move my chroot to a separate fs
[07:11] <_ion> Why?
[07:11] <NthDegree> well i like both kubuntu and xubuntu
[07:11] <NthDegree> and i like my system clean so i'd multiboot them with shared /home, /boot and /var/chroot
[07:12] <\sh> NthDegree: you can run kubuntu and xubuntu on one machine...and if you are cool gnome as well
[07:12] <NthDegree> yes but that is not as clean as a multiboot
[07:13] <NthDegree> i think i'll compile qtella if it isn't already done yet
[07:24] <hub> hey guys
[07:24] <ajmitch> hey hub
[07:24] <LaserJock> hi hub
[07:24] <bddebian> Heya hub
[07:24] <highvoltage> hey hub
[07:26] <_ion> hola        hub
[07:26] <\sh> hey hub
[07:26] <magnon> hey hub
[07:26] <LaserJock> wow, that's a pretty good "hey guys" response :-)
[07:26] <highvoltage> hey _ion
[07:27] <highvoltage> i like _ion's continuation of the ladder.
[07:27] <highvoltage> _ion++
[07:27] <LaserJock> hehe
[07:27] <ajmitch> artfully done
[07:28] <hub> wow
[07:29] <bddebian> heh
[07:29] <LaserJock> me neither, I get more like "go home you lazy bum!" ;-)
[07:29] <bddebian> HI AJMITCH
[07:29] <hub> bddebian: capslock
[07:30] <bddebian> No, that was enthusiasm :_)
[07:30] <ajmitch> no it wasn't
[07:30] <highvoltage> hi  ajmitch
[07:30] <ajmitch> that was just bddebian trying to compensate :P
[07:30] <highvoltage> *pink pony hello*
[07:30] <ajmitch> haha
[07:30] <LaserJock> lol
[07:31] <ajmitch> I suppose it's about time for me to sleep
[07:31] <highvoltage> goodnight ajmitch
[07:31] <LaserJock> darn it, I so want an Ubuntu logoed pony :-)
[07:31] <_ion> An evil ctrl button has taken over it.
[07:31] <bddebian> Sure, why not
[07:32] <LaserJock> http://www.cafepress.com/ubuntushop/ is totally missing a pony, who wants a stupid teddy bear anyway? :-)
[07:33] <bddebian> Ohh, the Ubuntu Thong.  Now I can replace my Debian one.. ;-P
[07:33] <LaserJock> eeewwwwwwww
[07:33] <tseng> ...
[07:34] <bddebian> Oh, you mean you don't want me to send you the Debian one?? ;-P
[07:35] <ajmitch> kickban!
[07:35] <LaserJock> no, I have enough Debian crap to deal with :p
[07:35] <highvoltage> i would buy ubuntu underwear, if it looked better. the ubuntu logo on the cafepress underwear is just too small.
[07:35] <highvoltage> size matters with underwear :)
[07:35] <tseng> done and done
[07:35] <\sh> highvoltage: hmmm...
[07:35] <\sh> lol
[07:36] <ajmitch> hah
[07:36] <highvoltage> i wouldn't want to take off my clothes and have a girl see that i have a small ubuntu logo...
[07:36] <tseng> bddebian: <3
[07:36] <bddebian> Man, rough crowd :-)
[07:36] <bddebian> highvoltage: hehe
[07:36] <LaserJock> highvoltage: lol
[07:37] <ajmitch> night all
[07:37] <LaserJock> cya ajmitch
[07:37] <\sh> cu ajmitch
[07:37] <\sh> have a good night
[07:37] <highvoltage> night ajmitch
[07:37] <zul> ajmitch: you'll be back
[07:37] <highvoltage> \sh: you know, some people might say that that would be appropriate ;)
[07:37] <bddebian> Gnight ajmitch
[07:38] <bddebian> \sh: You got the Ubuntu logo tattooed on your bum? :-)
[07:38] <LaserJock> highvoltage: you just need to get the Ubuntu bumper stick ;-)
[07:38] <\sh> bddebian: it's just a thought ;)
[07:38] <bddebian> That's hard core man :-)
[07:38] <highvoltage> LaserJock: i have an ubuntu bumper sticker on my car
[07:38] <bddebian> Maybe if I ever make core-dev I'll get an Ubuntu tattoo :-)
[07:39] <\sh> bddebian: or the edubuntu logo as tribal round my upper arm
[07:39] <highvoltage> i should actually put ubuntu stickers on my motorbike too...
[07:39] <\sh> let's start a wiki page
[07:39] <LaserJock> hehe, wonder if Mark's got a no-name-yet.com tattoo
[07:40] <\sh> s/work/world/
[07:40] <LaserJock> \sh: I'd say get the artwork team involved, but it might take them a while to come up with something ;-)
[07:40] <\sh> 2 ubuntu sticker, one go-opensource sticker, one combots sticker and one opensuse sticker
[07:41] <highvoltage> \sh: where did you get the go-opensource sticker?
[07:41] <\sh> highvoltage: linuxtag :) I have as well a opensuse shirt and baseball cap ;)
[07:41] <highvoltage> cool :)
[07:41] <\sh> highvoltage: other people had to pay for those gadgets, I got them for free ;)
[07:42] <\sh> and next week everything will be delivered to my son ;)
[07:43] <\sh> LaserJock: you are going to paris?
[07:43] <highvoltage> LaserJock: i'll bring some along later this month :)
[07:44] <\sh> LaserJock: if so, take a role of ubuntu stickers with you ;)
[07:45] <\sh> brb....need to pack my bag for tomorrow morning
[07:45] <LaserJock> highvoltage: great
[07:45] <LaserJock> yes, I'll have to start my collection at Paris
[07:46] <LaserJock> I used to have a cool "LaserJock" sticker from a laser company on my computer (hence the nick)
[07:47] <LaserJock> OT: has anybody ever had problems where with IMAP read emails don't stay read but go back to unread after a few minutes?
[07:49] <LaserJock> hmm, I'll take that as a no for now
[07:51] <crimsun> LaserJock: yes, I have when accidentally running multiple imap clients
[07:51] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:52] <LaserJock> at the same time?
[07:52] <crimsun> yep
[07:52] <crimsun> it's pretty easy to lose track of mutts in screens
[07:52] <LaserJock> yeah, I can imagine
[07:53] <LaserJock> I use Mail.app and thunderbird and mutt, but not usually at the same time
[07:53] <LaserJock> I do notice on the server though that I have 4 imapd processes going
[07:53] <LaserJock> darn, but then I closed Mail.app and they all went away
[08:00] <crimsun> yay, -updates is working
[08:07] <LaserJock> crimsun:hmm, looks my problem is a know bug in Mail.app going back to at least Jan. and Apple doesn't seem to want to fix all that much. Go Apple! ;-)
[08:08] <crimsun> Confirmed -> Rejected !
[08:09] <LaserJock> righteo
[08:09] <LaserJock> hmm, know what am I going to use, MS Entourage?
[08:20] <highvoltage> MS Entourage? is that an MS font or something?
[08:21] <LaserJock> that is the MS mail app in OS X
[08:21] <LaserJock> i.e. the OS X version of Outlook
[08:22] <LaserJock> hehe, it actually isn't too bad
[08:23] <LaserJock> but I'm finding in general that some of the OSX apps just plain suck. But maybe I've been using Linux too long
[08:26] <NthDegree> this is gonna sound retarded but what's the Qt header package called?
[08:26] <\sh> libqt3-mt-dev
[08:26] <NthDegree> ok now that's weird
[08:26] <NthDegree> i have that installed
[08:27] <\sh> but you don't find the qt headers?
[08:27] <\sh> well, because the qtdir is /usr/share/qt3/ ;)
[08:28] <NthDegree> so i have to go modify the configure file then?
[08:28] <\sh> NthDegree: yes
[08:28] <\sh> --with-qt-dir=/usr/share/qt3 should help
[08:29] <NthDegree> ok now it's time to fetch kde with apt-get build-dep ktorrent :)
[08:29] <NthDegree> thanks \sh
[08:30] <\sh> hmmm..ktorrent is there ;)
[08:30] <NthDegree> i know
[08:30] <NthDegree> i am doing qtella
[08:30] <NthDegree> but most of the same stuff is used for ktorrent
[09:04] <_ion> About warsow: 5. I've seen this game is GPL'd. Where can I get the source? What about the media?
[09:04] <_ion> Direct a request by email to the contact address, which is found in the docs folder, and you'll get a download url in the response.
[09:04] <_ion> The media is copyrighted, and will remain artist's property unless we abandon this project. In that case, we will ask the artist for their permission to make the media gpl.
[09:05] <hub> any beagle packager here?
[09:05] <tseng> hub: yes?
[09:05] <hub> tseng: why is it configure with --disable-evolution?
[09:05] <tseng> is it?
[09:06] <tseng> it has evo enabled
[09:06] <tseng> but it gets split into beagle-backend-evolution
[09:06] <\sh> _ion: so no joy for a package
[09:07] <Kyral_FreeBSD> So if you don't like or have Evolution then you don't need it for Beagle :P
[09:07] <hub> tseng: ah weird. my mistake
[09:07] <tseng> hub: np
[09:07] <hub> tseng: on the other wv support seems not to be enabled
[09:07] <tseng> thats right
[09:08] <hub> why?
[09:08] <tseng> we just got a usable wv package pretty late iirc
[09:08] <tseng> and it broke api
[09:08] <tseng> didnt want to do it in dapper
[09:08] <hub> tseng: I posted them a while ago in REVU
[09:08] <hub> nobody did even look at them
[09:08] <_ion> sh: Well, maybe the artist would permit the redistribution of the media if asked. Then it could go to multiverse, right?
[09:08] <tseng> i looked
[09:08] <tseng> but I couldnt do it for dapper
[09:08] <tseng> we will get it in edgy
[09:08] <tseng> keep on top of it
[09:08] <hub> okay
[09:09] <hub> it is required for AbiWord-HEAD anyway
[09:11] <\sh> _ion: the main app could go in universe if it's gpl, but the media..needs a good license and redistribution license for multiverse
[09:11] <_ion> sh: My point is that maybe they give exactly that if someone asked nicely. :-)
[09:12] <\sh> _ion: how many people we have to ask?
[09:12] <_ion> solomonk@warsow.net would be a good starting point
[09:13] <sladen> _ion: I did some work on trying to get warsow to do useful things
[09:13] <sladen> _ion: and pb`` is the coder who actually knows things
[09:14] <sladen> solomonk seems to be the manager/frontperson
[09:14] <sladen> ^^ == knows things relating to the build/source
[09:14] <sladen> I got one fps out of it and couldn't get past the menu last night.  So I was hacking bits out of the source
[09:15] <\sh> can someone remove xgl from the universe archives, pls pls pls
[09:16] <sladen> \sh: how come/
[09:16] <Kyral_FreeBSD> because its a broken ass toy
[09:16] <Kyral_FreeBSD> and we are tired of hering questions in #ubuntu about it :P
[09:16] <\sh> sladen: because all people coming now install xgl and breaking their system
[09:16] <sladen> agreed.  unfortunately putters like wanking over it
[09:16] <sladen> punters
[09:16] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: even in #kubuntu-de we are tired
[09:16] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Why do people even USE it
[09:16] <\sh> ricer
[09:17] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I mean the novalty wears off
[09:17] <\sh> mostly ex gentoo user
[09:17] <Kyral_FreeBSD> lol
[09:17] <zul> because its super neat
[09:17] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Even I like sourcebased
[09:17] <Kyral_FreeBSD> but jeez
[09:17] <\sh> "hey mom, look, I have a rotating 3d word processor"
[09:17] <Laser_away> \sh: heah, I'm an ex-gentoo user and I don't use Xgl ;-)
[09:17] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Frankly for eye-candy XCompMgr suffices
[09:17] <\sh> "no mom, I can't write a letter for you on this thing...no it's just rotating...you know, mom, it's cool"
[09:18] <\sh> "yes, mom, it's openoffice I know, but you see, it's rotating, no typing allowed"
[09:18] <Kyral_FreeBSD> hmm
[09:19] <Laser_away> bddebian: yeah, I was just going to say, you can rotate windows? neato
[09:19] <\sh> I think we need a new demo coder scene for linux..
[09:19] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ???
[09:20] <zul> ick...
[09:20] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I think I wanna try making an Ubuntu/kFreebsd
[09:20] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: for eyecandy we need nice demos like in c64, atari and amiga times ;)
[09:23] <hub> tseng: btw, let me know if you need help for wv1
[09:23] <tseng> hub: syre
[09:23] <tseng> sure
[09:33] <NthDegree> w00t
[09:34] <NthDegree> qtella is compiling :D
[09:35] <NthDegree> so can someone tell me how I am to make this into a package
[09:36] <NthDegree> Spec?
[09:36] <Spec> heya
[09:36] <Spec> what's up?
[09:36] <NthDegree> can you show me how to make qtella into a package
[09:36] <Spec> is qtella a package already?
[09:36] <NthDegree> i've ran make and it appears to have compiled successfully
[09:37] <NthDegree> no i don't think so
[09:37] <NthDegree> apt-get turned up nothing
[09:37] <NthDegree> and it was a challenge to get working with a few compile problems so I doubt anyone as packaged it
[09:37] <Spec> check out this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging
[09:38] <Spec> there's lots of packaging guides on the wiki
[09:38] <LaserJock> NthDegree: check out http://help.ubuntu.com/ , specifically the Packaging Guide
[09:38] <Spec> perhaps there should be a link in the topic pointing people to packaging documentation
[09:39] <NthDegree> oh yeah I can't test it properly because it needs X
[09:40] <crimsun> LaserJock: did you commit Rob's patch+my note?
[09:41] <LaserJock> crimsun: I'm thinking about it, there is actually more to clean up with the chroot section
[09:41] <crimsun> LaserJock: ah, ok.
[09:42] <crimsun> feasible to have updates to ubuntu-docs in dapper-updates, I should hope
[09:42] <LaserJock> I think so, I know the translations will be updated at least
[09:44] <LaserJock> well, I had a discussion with infinity the other day about the sudo part
[09:45] <crimsun> right, I was present :)
[09:45] <LaserJock> oh, well you were there
[09:45] <LaserJock> sorry
[09:45] <LaserJock> anyway, I'd like to make sure that is cleaned up as well
[09:55] <NthDegree> where do i get debuild from?
[09:56] <\sh> apt-get install devscripts
[09:56] <NthDegree> ty \sh :)
[09:56] <\sh> NthDegree: np
[09:59] <NthDegree> oops :$ well i'm close now atleast - debuild problems
[09:59] <\sh> what problems?
[09:59] <NthDegree> WARNING: Can't find the right public key-- can't check signature integrity.
[09:59] <NthDegree> debuild: fatal error at line 791:
[10:00] <\sh> do you have a gpg key?
[10:00] <NthDegree> nope
[10:00] <\sh> and as uid the email address as in debian/changelog?
[10:01] <crimsun> then you need to append " -uc -us"
[10:01] <NthDegree> this is so confusing, qtella uses god knows what
[10:02] <crimsun> or just create a gpg key, heh, since you'll need one anyway
[10:02] <\sh> re bddebian
[10:02] <NthDegree> gpg: keyring `/root/.gnupg/secring.gpg' created gpg: keyring `/root/.gnupg/pubring.gpg' created gpg: skipped "root <martyn.hare@tiscali.co.uk>": secret key not available
[10:02] <NthDegree> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available WARNING: Can't find the right public key-- can't check signature integrity. debuild: fatal error at line 791:
[10:03] <NthDegree> well i think it made me some keys
[10:03] <NthDegree> but as root lol
[10:03] <crimsun> why are you building as root?
[10:03] <sivang> \sh: I wonder what overrides the lease time from the server, any idea?
[10:03] <NthDegree> because if i don't it usually messes things up
[10:04] <NthDegree> and it's a chroot so it has to be root doesn't it?
[10:04] <crimsun> NthDegree: you're not using pbuilder?
[10:04] <NthDegree> :|
[10:04] <\sh> sivang: send dhcp-lease-time 3600;
[10:05] <\sh> in /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf
[10:05] <\sh> sivang: I commented it in
[10:05] <crimsun> (or sbuild)
[10:06] <NthDegree> i'm trying the debuild method
[10:06] <Spec[x] > wow
[10:06] <NthDegree> since it seems easier
[10:06] <Spec> you still need a gpg key
[10:06] <crimsun> NthDegree: debuild -S  is standard; then pbuild the generated source package
[10:06] <NthDegree> i'm stuck at debuild
[10:06] <LaserJock> right, but don't run debuild as root
[10:07] <LaserJock> in fact, you really don't have to do anything as root when you are packaging
[10:07] <NthDegree> so make a new user and su into it?
[10:08] <LaserJock> why do you need a new user?
[10:08] <sivang> \sh: shit, is this a known bug or something?
[10:08] <LaserJock> just do it as yourself
[10:09] <NthDegree> wait a sec
[10:09] <NthDegree> but in a chroot my user doesn't exist
[10:09] <LaserJock> you could
[10:09] <\sh> NthDegree: wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapHowto
[10:09] <\sh> there is written how you can enabled sudo etc. with your user and passwd
[10:10] <LaserJock> NthDegree: seriously, check out the Ubuntu Packaging Guide, it is all in there
[10:10] <tseng> LaserJock++
[10:10] <tseng> Unfrgiven++
[10:12] <highvoltage> where's Unfrgiven?
[10:12] <highvoltage> he's the only other person i know that named his nick after a song name.
[10:12] <tseng> are you sure that is where he got it?
[10:12] <LaserJock> he's around every once in a while
[10:12] <tseng> its just a word
[10:12] <tseng> he has a family
[10:13] <LaserJock> yeah, I remember you guys talking about it
[10:13] <tseng> he doesnt live on irc
[10:13] <tseng> like some of us..
[10:15] <highvoltage> tseng: yes, it's from a metallica song
[10:15] <tseng> i know the song
[10:15] <tseng> WHOOPS I CORRECTED MY GRAMMER IN A GLOBAL SERVER MESSAGE
[10:15] <highvoltage> he asked me if my nick is from a linkin park song. so i said yes, and asked him if his name is from the metallica song.
[10:15] <Spec> hmm?
[10:16] <tseng> I don't listen to linkin park
[10:16] <tseng> Spec: Lilo
[10:16] <Spec> what about lilo?
[10:16] <tseng> nothing.
[10:16] <Spec> i'm confused :-/
[10:16] <highvoltage> well, i don't listen to them anymore either. but i don't like changing nicks.
[10:16] <_ion> My nick is from Bob Marley's "Ion Lion in Zion".
[10:17] <LaserJock> I've got some linkin park in my limited library
[10:17] <bddebian2> METALLICA RULZ!! :-)
[10:17] <_ion> (In case no-one noticed the pun, i was actually joking.)
[10:19] <highvoltage> _ion: cool :)
[10:21] <Spec> i have a paintball gun that's named 'ion'
[10:21] <Spec> it's vicious >:)
[10:22] <highvoltage> ion3 is also quite cool.
[10:22] <_ion> highvoltage: Agreed.
[10:23] <LaserJock> I tried it the other day
[10:31] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Who's bright idea was it to FURTHER split up the install CDs?
[10:31] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I thought the idea of Espresso was to reduce the number of choices?
[10:31] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: the alternate cd is not going to be shipped
[10:32] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: only the desktop cd aka livecd with ubiquity..that was the plan
[10:32] <Kyral_FreeBSD> \sh: Then why is it offered for download? And what is it even?
[10:32] <Kyral_FreeBSD> People are like "Uhh, whats the Alternate" thing
[10:32] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: because the live cd installer has some pitfalls
[10:32] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ...then fall back to NCurses...
[10:32] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: e.g. it eats your former installed grub
[10:33] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: d-i und ubiquity are two different approaches
[10:33] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ....call me an idiot, but how many ways are there to install a system?
[10:33] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: 2
[10:33] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: for ubuntu that is :)
[10:34] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I mean its basically downloading or copying the system onto the newly partitioned space
[10:34] <Kyral_FreeBSD> How many ways are there to do that?
[10:34] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ..without shell aliases and all that...
[10:34] <NthDegree> ubotu what's the time
[10:34] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: the alternate cd has more packages on it , I think, and desktop cd is just pure the desktop installation
[10:34] <\sh> but I can be wrong
[10:34] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ..../me falls down
[10:35] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Oy....
[10:35] <NthDegree> how do i get the time and date in here?
[10:35] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Remind me never to ask you guys for help designing an installer
[10:35] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: but the main reason for this is to save money for the ship it cds
[10:35] <\sh> NthDegree: console: date ;)
[10:35] <Kyral_FreeBSD> or date -u for UTC!
[10:36] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: hehe...we are not designing the installer, rants go to #ubuntu-devel ;)
[10:36] <Kyral_FreeBSD> sorry I didn't have it open and I needed a rantzone :P
[10:36] <Kyral_FreeBSD> whats LTS mean anyway....
[10:36] <\sh> Long Term Support
[10:36] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ...*facefault*
[10:36] <\sh> means 3 years for desktop, 5 years for server
[10:36] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I think I've been in the ArchSauce too long
[10:37] <Kyral_FreeBSD> I know...why is it in the name of the release...implies there is a STS version :P
[10:37] <\sh> what information do you need to cover your absence?
[10:37] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: the other releases are still 18 months
[10:37] <Kyral_FreeBSD> absence?
[10:37] <Kyral_FreeBSD> \sh: I meant of Dapper
[10:37] <Kyral_FreeBSD> ie, Dapper LTS & Dapper STS
[10:37] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: there is no dapper sts
[10:38] <\sh> only LTS ;)
[10:38] <crimsun> Kyral_FreeBSD: no, it's just to distinguish the longer support
[10:38] <Kyral_FreeBSD> nevermind....
[10:38] <Kyral_FreeBSD> This is making my head hurt...
[10:38] <\sh> LTS means: guaranteed support commercial and community wise
[10:38] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Yes
[10:38] <\sh> phew...cheers guys
[10:39] <Kyral_FreeBSD> but I was saying that by making it the title of the release, that SOME people (I don't put ANYTHING past the masses) will think that there is a STS version too
[10:39] <bddebian> Oh well, time to head home.  Later gang
[10:39] <crimsun> cya bddebian
[10:39] <LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: they are happy to look for one :-)
[10:39] <Kyral_FreeBSD> yah
[10:39] <bddebian> crimsun: Got that pony yet? ;-P
[10:40] <\sh> Kyral_FreeBSD: mv /dev/rant /dev/sabdfl ;)
[10:40] <Kyral_FreeBSD> and I have to handle the "Where is the STS version" request
[10:40] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Sorry guys
[10:40] <Kyral_FreeBSD> long day
[10:40] <Kyral_FreeBSD> spent 3 hours in the car and had to go right to work after
[10:40] <LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: and there are 2 installers because sometimes people don't want/need the GUI one
[10:40] <hub> tseng: wv1 will be brought by the debian resync anyway
[10:41] <LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: but we are trying to move to ubiquity as much as possible, I think
[10:41] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Do whatever you guys
[10:42] <LaserJock> ?
[10:42] <Kyral_FreeBSD> Remember what I say is the great part about Open Source?
[10:42] <LaserJock> I'm not seeing an issue, if you like the curses based install you download the alternate CD
[10:46] <dooglus> when is the UVF for dapper going to be?
 Kyral_FreeBSD: mv /dev/rant /dev/sabdfl ;)
[10:46] <lucas> note that this doesn't work
[10:46] <lucas> for example, mv /etc/motd /dev/null is *really* a bad idea
[10:47] <Amaranth> yes
[10:47] <Amaranth> unless you enjoy reboots
[10:47] <\sh> lucas: mv /var/spool/rants/kyral_rants /dev/sabdfl ;)
[10:47] <\sh> but actually he got the point :)
[10:48] <Amaranth> \sh: cat /var/spool/rants/kyral_rants > /dev/sabdfl :P
[10:48] <lucas> dooglus: about 3 months ago ?
[10:48] <\sh> no kyral_rants is a directory ;)
[10:48] <\sh> doesn't matter.
[10:48] <\sh> I drink beer now
[10:48] <crimsun> dooglus: going to be...?
[10:48] <dooglus> lucas: I thought so.  so why did my apt-get upgrade just install new upstream versions of gedit and epiphany?
[10:48] <lucas> bugfixes
[10:49] <crimsun> dooglus: they're from dapper-updates. gnome-desktop has a standing exception grant to UVF.
[10:49] <dooglus> crimsun: oh, I see.  so dapper will continue to track all the gnome desktop packages upstream?
[10:50] <crimsun> dooglus: within reason
[10:50] <dooglus> seems strange.  I thought the point of having releases was that they're stable.  dapper today may have more bugs than dapper yesterday...
[10:51] <LaserJock> no, the point is that the updates are for a reason
[10:51] <crimsun> dooglus: you may note the timeliness of ubuntu's release cycle to gnome's. And only dot releases for gnome, i.e., I wouldn't expect to see 2.16 in dapper.
[10:52] <crimsun> but 2.14.x, yes
[10:53] <hub> tseng: strangely beagle depends on less thing than it should
[10:54] <hub> tseng: looks like dependencies are not calculated for libbeagleglue
[10:55] <NthDegree> so how do i get a gpg key?
[10:55] <lucas> NthDegree: by reading one of the various GPG tutorials on the web :)
[10:56] <hub> tseng: I'm dumb once again. sorry for the noise
[10:57] <LaserJock> NthDegree: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[10:57] <NthDegree> thanks
[10:59] <\sh> hub: what about your job? still getting money?
[11:00] <hub> \sh: still getting paid, yeah
[11:00] <\sh> hub: good :)
[11:03] <\sh> oh man, I'm today the master of first lvl support
[11:03] <\sh> I should apply for the canonical support center in montreal
[11:03] <Spec> ah, "Doesn't matter, I drink beer now", the best line of the days.
[11:10] <hub> \sh: I applied back in November at canonical and my application has been left unsanswered
[11:10] <hub> \sh: instead hired another $FORMER_COWORKER
[11:10] <\sh> hub: kick mark
[11:11] <hub> \sh: that still had a job at that time
[11:11] <hub> \sh: but probably because he got coopted
[11:11] <\sh> coopted?
[11:11] <hub> a friend of somone already in the place
[11:12] <_ion> You probably shouldn't have written the part about you thinking of killing your ex-employer to the application.
[11:12] <hub> _ion: ahaha
[11:12] <hub> _ion: very funny
[11:12] <\sh> hub: hmm...ask mark why the application is not answered, not even with a "no, we hired one already"
[11:13] <hub> \sh: at that time they had nobody. it was during ubz in fact
[11:13] <hub> \sh: I'll just keep the idea for Dave Null
[11:13] <hub> it does not matter anyway
[11:14] <\sh> hub: for me, it would matter
[11:15] <hub> well, I'm just getting used to all that sh*t anyway, and I currenly have a job, a house and other stuff
[11:15] <\sh> hub: as you know, mark has my cv and he can call me every day and night time, if he needs someone...but I don't want to work for canonical somehow. for a couple of months ok, but not longer
[11:16] <hub> \sh: yeah, and I do understand your situation
[11:16] <\sh> hub: my situation is getting better :)
[11:16] <hub> I hope
[11:17] <\sh> hub: let me tell you, that I will pay back all supporter (motus here) when I'm finished with my project...I'll earn at least that what some people are earning per year ;)
[11:17] <\sh> hub: in 60 days :)
[11:18] <\sh> hub: talking about money where the tax is already removed ;)
[11:19] <\sh> hub: but I would like to know why my application wasn't answered
[11:35] <Toadstool> g'night
[11:35] <NthDegree> night