[12:45] <simira> @schedule Oslo
[12:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu
[12:58] <ealden> @schedule Manila
[12:58] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 07 Jun 04:00: Technical Board | 07 Jun 05:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 21:30: Xubuntu | 08 Jun 04:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu
[01:05] <jsgotangco> doh
[01:09] <imbrandon> @schedule chicago
[01:09] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 06 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 16:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 08:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 07:00: Edubuntu
[01:17] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: going to attend the TB meeting?
[01:17] <jsgotangco> 4AM?
[01:17] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:17] <ajmitch> yeah
[01:27] <siretart> ajmitch: I will be about 30min late tonight, could you perhaps mdz tell to delay my backports point until then?
[01:27] <ajmitch> siretart: if I'm up in time for the meeting
[01:27] <ajmitch> it's at 8AM for me, I'll try & make it
[01:28] <siretart> ajmitch: oh, then never mind
[01:28] <siretart> ah, he is here, I can tell him myself :P
[01:29] <siretart> mdz: re the point I set on the agenda: I won't make it on time, I'll be late about 30mins, but I will definitly try to attend. It would be great if this point could be a bit delayed.
[03:03] <GNAM> @schedule ROme
[03:03] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu
[03:23] <Klaidas> schedule VIlnius
[03:24] <Klaidas> oops
[03:24] <Klaidas> @schedule VIlnius
[03:24] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 06 Jun 23:00: Technical Board | 07 Jun 00:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 16:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 23:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu
[03:25] <Klaidas> they do :)
[03:34] <jenda> @schedule prague
[03:34] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Prague: 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu
[03:34] <jenda> Ah... beautiful.
[05:37] <zul> @scehdule Montreal
[05:37] <zul> @schedule Montreal
[05:37] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 06 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu
[08:11] <lucas> @schedule Europe/Paris
[08:11] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu
[08:25] <bluefoxicy> @schedule US/EDT
[08:25] <bluefoxicy> @schedule US/Eastern
[08:25] <Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Eastern: 06 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu
[08:25] <bluefoxicy> what's the technical board for again?
[08:25] <ogra> technical discussion :)
[08:30] <rikai> that makes a crazt anount of sense. ;)
[08:43] <imbrandon> @schedule US/Central kubuntu
[08:43] <imbrandon> @schedule US/Central
[08:43] <Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 06 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 16:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 08:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 07:00: Edubuntu
[08:59] <Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
[08:59] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 06 Jun 23:00: Technical Board | 07 Jun 00:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 16:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 23:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu
[08:59] <Seveas> @now
[08:59] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 06 2006, 18:59:51 - Next meeting: Technical Board  in 1 hours
[09:00] <Klaidas> ok, I have some time to take a shower
[09:06] <BlueT_> @schedule taipei
[09:06] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Taipei: 07 Jun 04:00: Technical Board | 07 Jun 05:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 21:30: Xubuntu | 08 Jun 04:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu
[09:22] <dinagef> Sorry I'm late...
[09:22] <zul> meeting hasnt started yet
[09:22] <dinagef> Ah, thanks.
[09:23] <dinagef> Is Stephan on?
[09:23] <imbrandon> @now
[09:23] <highvoltage> @schedule Johannesburg
[09:23] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 06 2006, 19:23:46 - Next meeting: Technical Board  in 36 minutes
[09:23] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu
[09:24] <dinagef> What time does this kick off?
[09:27] <imbrandon> 30 minutes or so for the TB meeting
[09:27] <dinagef> ?
[09:27] <dinagef> Yay!
[09:27] <dinagef> FUCKING PISSFLAPS! UBUNTU R0X0RS!
[09:27] <imbrandon> dinagef: just type @now and/or @schedule <timezone> while in this chan to find out later
[09:29] <imbrandon> Seveas: heh anyway to keep him quiet durring the meeting , looks like it might be a problem ..... ( dinagef n=fred 82-42-225-31.stb.ubr06.live.blueyonder.co.uk * Fred Dinage )
[09:31] <Seveas> imbrandon, yes there is
[09:32] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:58] <bddebian> Hey folks
[09:58] <mdz> morning
[09:58] <Bluekuja> hello mdz,bddebian
[09:58] <ogra> hey
[09:58] <teckfatt> mdz: morning
[09:58] <bddebian> Morning?  It's 4:00pm ;-)
[09:58] <mjg59> Evening
[09:58] <mdz> somewhere
[09:58] <bddebian> Hi Bluekuja
[09:59] <teckfatt> 9pm at UK
[09:59] <pygi> hey hey Andrea
[09:59] <mdz> Keybuk: ping
[09:59] <highvoltage> hi bddebian, mdz, Bluekuja, ogra, mjg59, teckfatt and pygi :)
[09:59] <bddebian> Heh, hi highvoltage
[09:59] <Bluekuja> pygi: hello mario :)
[09:59] <mdz> danger, danger!
[09:59] <ogra> heh, hey highvoltage 
[09:59] <Bluekuja> highvoltage: hello jon :)
[09:59] <pygi> mdz, nuclear power plant is exploding? :)
[09:59] <ogra> (instinctively)
[09:59] <teckfatt> highvoltage: hello 
[10:00] <imbrandon> danger will robinson ?!?
[10:00] <pygi> bddebian, you came ;)
[10:00] <zul> watchout radioactive man the sun is exploding again!
[10:00] <bddebian> pygi: Yeah, I figure what the he** :-)
[10:01] <bddebian> All they can do is laugh at me :-)
[10:01] <mdz> crimsun: here?
[10:01] <crimsun> mdz: yes
[10:01] <mdz> I think you're first on the agenda
[10:01] <mdz> welcome, all, etc.  let's get started ;-)
[10:02] <mdz> crimsun: so you're applying for -core-dev?
[10:02] <Keybuk> mdz: yup
[10:02] <ogra> oh ? you arent already ? 
[10:02] <crimsun> mdz: yes. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielTChen (top section) has some words on what I'd like to do for main.
[10:03] <bddebian> Crimsun wasn't already?
[10:03] <mjg59> Guys? Could we have a litle less background chatter?
[10:03] <bddebian> Sorry
[10:03] <mjg59> It makes it trickier to pick out the important stuff
[10:03] <mdz> crimsun: so you plan to implement this troubleshooting tool?
[10:04] <crimsun> mdz: yes, but certainly not alone
[10:04] <crimsun> mdz: there are a fair number of clueful people who can assist, and I value their contributions (trappist and dolson come to mind)
[10:04] <mdz> crimsun: it seems to me that it would be sensible to incorporate additional troubleshooting functionality into ogra's hwdb-client rather than add a new tool
[10:05] <crimsun> mdz: point taken, given that hwdb-client already has the needed info
[10:05] <ogra> which should see a (partial) rewrite anyway (and if only for front/backend splitting to make kde happy)
[10:05] <mjg59> crimsun: You'd be happy with that?
[10:05] <mdz> crimsun: and a primitive audio test
[10:05] <crimsun> ogra: yes, and hopefully for Xfce, too?
[10:06] <ogra> crimsun, yeah
[10:06] <crimsun> mjg59: avoiding unnecessary code duplication? very much so.
[10:06] <mjg59> crimsun: Has your MOTU work included much packaging?
[10:06] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/people/crimsun/+packages
[10:06] <crimsun> mjg59: of new source packages? not terribly much is in the archives. I've done mostly maintenance work, though I'm fairly familiar with packaging.
[10:07] <mjg59> Ok, yeah, good point
[10:07] <mdz> mjg59: crimsun is a regular contributor to our kernel tree as well, if I'm not mistaken
[10:07] <mjg59> crimsun: My only vague concern is that working in main may involve you doing more packaging from scratch
[10:07] <mjg59> But my experience of your work is that you're sufficiently responsible that I doubt that would cause any sort of problems
[10:08] <crimsun> mjg59: I'm quite comfortable with packaging from scratch, as I'm pretty active in assisting others in #-motu
[10:08] <mjg59> crimsun: Ok, sounds good
[10:08] <mdz> crimsun: was it the development of this troubleshooting tool which motivated you to apply for upload rights to main?
[10:08] <mdz> or anything else additionally?
[10:08] <mjg59> mdz: He is, and he's been invaluable in helping us keep track with upstream alsa
[10:08] <crimsun> mdz: to be honest, it was moreso to avoid having to ask pitti to upload alsa* changes
[10:09] <Keybuk> I was about to say, crimsun is one of the rare people who seems to not mind touching ALSA
[10:09] <mjg59> Our sound support would be much worse otherwise
[10:10] <mjg59> I don't think I've got any more questions. You guys?
[10:10] <mdz> Keybuk: any questions for crimsun before voting?
[10:10] <Keybuk> I have no questions
[10:11] <mdz> votes?
[10:11] <Keybuk> +1
[10:11] <mdz> +1 and hearty thanks for your contributions to date
[10:11] <mjg59> +1
[10:11] <crimsun> thank you very much, and I look forward to making post-6.06 LTS rock even harder :)
[10:11] <dholbach> congratulations, crimsun!
[10:11] <mjg59> crimsun: Congrats!
[10:11] <mdz> crimsun: congratulations and welcome
[10:11] <zul> crimsun: yay!
[10:12] <jpatrick> crimsun: congrats
[10:12] <mjg59> Who's up next?
[10:12] <highvoltage> whohoo!
[10:12] <imbrandon> congrats
[10:12] <bddebian> w00t crimsun
[10:12] <pygi> congrats crimsun ;)
[10:12] <Keybuk> bddebian, I believe?
[10:12] <Bluekuja> mjg59: Its me for dev
[10:12] <mdz> is JAMIL AHMED present?
[10:12] <siretart> congratulations, crimsun! :)
[10:12] <Keybuk> mdz: he isn't a member of -dev yet
[10:12] <mdz> Keybuk: indeed
[10:12] <Keybuk> so needs a dholbach love letter
[10:12] <mdz> dholbach: have you contacted him?
[10:13] <mdz> Bluekuja: indeed, it appears you are next
[10:13] <ogra> mdz, bddebian ?
[10:13] <bddebian> ogra: ?
[10:13] <dholbach> mdz: I contacted all of them, but not my-sweet-leader and bluekuja (they're still in my inbox)
[10:13] <ogra> bddebian, you are on the Applied for membership list for core-dev
[10:14] <bddebian> ogra: Aye, just waiting my turn :-)
[10:14] <mdz> bddebian: oh, you applied before the previous meeting
[10:14] <Keybuk> mdz: we didn't have a TB meeting two weeks ago, so bddebian didn't get processed
[10:14] <mdz> right-o
[10:14] <Keybuk> so bddebian has actually applied since the last TB meeting that took place
[10:14] <mdz> bddebian: in that case you are next
[10:15] <bddebian> OK.  Well I don't have as fancy of a wiki as crimsun :-)
[10:15] <bddebian> In fact mine is severely out of date
[10:15] <mdz> bddebian: indeed, your wiki link from launchpad is broken :-)
[10:15] <bddebian> It is?
[10:15] <bddebian> Hmm
[10:15] <bddebian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarrydeFreese
[10:16] <mdz> it links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bddebian
[10:16] <highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod ?
[10:16] <mdz> which does not exist
[10:16] <mdz> however, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod does
[10:16] <bddebian> Scary
[10:16] <ogra> lol
[10:16] <mdz> bddebian: what has motivated you to apply for -core-dev?
[10:17] <bddebian> Several things but probably the largest is bug fixes for some of the "less loved" packages
[10:17] <bddebian> I was hoping to help out with X but I don't think that is going to be feasable
[10:17] <Keybuk> do you have particular bug fixes in mind?
[10:17] <bddebian> Anything and everything I can get my hands on
[10:18] <mdz> bddebian: do you have any specific goals or areas where you plan to work?
[10:18] <bddebian> What I run into a lot of times are small bug fixes (ie kscd) that I have fixes for
[10:18] <mjg59> bddebian: Which less loves packages do you think are currently in main, and do you have your eye on any in particular?
[10:19] <bddebian> This is going to sound cheesy, but no.  I kind of like hitting all the packages that don't see a great deal of attention.  Kind of the Ubuntu QA Group :-)
[10:19] <Keybuk> bddebian: have you been making patches for those fixes and attaching them to the bug in Malone?
[10:19] <bddebian> Yes
[10:19] <Keybuk> do you have any examples?
[10:19] <mdz> bddebian: have you made uploads to main through a sponsor?
[10:20] <bddebian> Ack, what is up with LP
[10:21] <bddebian> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kscd/+bug/37963
[10:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37963 in kscd "[patch]  song title partially hidden" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[10:21] <bddebian> https://launchpad.net/people/bddebian/+packages
[10:22] <bddebian> mdz: I'm not sure I can say that "officially", no
[10:23] <mdz> bddebian: what do you mean?
[10:23] <bddebian> I mean I don't know that someone officially sponsered a main upload for me
[10:24] <mdz> bddebian: so to date, you haven't had cause to upload a package to main?
[10:24] <bddebian> Other than bugfixes, no
[10:25] <mjg59> bddebian: How do you think core-dev membership would significantly increase your workflow?
[10:26] <bddebian> Well one of the things that I find frustrating is having to bother people for simple fixes for things.  Let me clarify this a little.
[10:26] <mdz> bddebian: if you have contributions to make to main, the first logical step would be to have them reviewed and uploaded by an existing -core-dev member
[10:26] <Keybuk> bddebian: a lot of your changes so far have been relatively minor bug fixes.  core-dev often involves quite major changes to packages, or even packaging new software.  Do you have any examples of packages you created from scratch, or patches you've written for particularly deep bugs in the source?
[10:27] <bddebian> mdz: That would be provided I could find someone with the time
[10:27] <mdz> bddebian: has that been a problem for you in the past?
[10:27] <mjg59> bddebian: As we've seen, other people appear to manage this
[10:28] <bddebian> mdz: Yes
[10:28] <bddebian> mjg59: Aye and maybe I just irritate people I don't know.  I've tried to understand that
[10:28] <mjg59> bddebian: Ok. It would be good to hear from people who've reviewed your patches to stuff in main
[10:28] <bddebian> Keybuk: Probably not significantly enough no
[10:29] <mdz> bddebian: have you approached someone for assistance with an upload and been declined?
[10:30] <bddebian> mdz: No, not outright that I can think of
[10:31] <bddebian> Well it appears that we are wasting peoples time, so no worries, I can try harder for Edgy I suppose.
[10:32] <mdz> bddebian: I think that a good first step would be to work with someone to review and upload your packages to main.  If you need help in finding someone, I can help with that
[10:33] <mjg59> bddebian: What would help a great deal is having people who are willing to comment on the quality of your work so far in main
[10:33] <bddebian> mjg59: Well to Keybuk's point, I suppose none of them have been significant enough.
[10:33] <mdz> bddebian: you have made a substantial contribution to universe and that is appreciated, but it would be best to start working in main before applying for direct upload rights
[10:34] <Keybuk> indeed, I'd like to second mdz's comment that your work in universe is very much appreciated!  keep it up
[10:35] <bddebian> Is there any chance of at least getting a Universe archive admin so we don't have to bother core-devs with syncs and removals?
[10:35] <mdz> bddebian: if you have any fixes for main, I'd be happy to help you get them reviewed and uploaded
[10:36] <bddebian> OK, thanks folks.
[10:37] <Keybuk> bddebian: the trouble with that is that the only difference between main and universe from a LP point of view is just a field in the database.  So there's no way to separate them via access control for the dedicated tools at this time
[10:37] <Keybuk> once the Web UI exposes syncs and removals, it should be trivial
[10:37] <Keybuk> I believe that is on the cards
[10:37] <bddebian> OK, thanks
[10:37] <Keybuk> we literally just use tools that muck around with SQL at the moment
[10:37] <mjg59> Ok. Is that it for core-dev?
[10:38] <mdz> there doesn't seem to be a backlog on ubuntu-archive at the moment
[10:38] <mdz> bddebian: thank you, and please do get in touch with me if you need any assistance
[10:38] <bddebian> Sure
[10:39] <mdz> is Fred Chu here?
[10:40] <mdz> if not, Bluekuja is up for ubuntu-dev
[10:40] <mjg59> Let's go with Bluekuja and then we can come back if necessary
[10:40] <Bluekuja> I've made a lot on some packages related to irc and bittorrent(it would be great to maintain some of them in universe), they are v2strip , anope, cog, gtorrent-viewer, ctorrent(gtorrent, anope are still in revu, soon others). I'm working with sfllaw (and chistoph Hass) that advocates me also for debian, where I'm developing gtorrent.(he reviews my packages)
[10:40] <Bluekuja> I'm an uploader also in fedora extras repositories, there are already some of mine packages inside( gtorrent, and v2strip) and right now I'm building eggdrop, another irc bot.
[10:41] <mdz> Bluekuja: it looks like you're interested in edubuntu?
[10:41] <Bluekuja> mdz: exactly, I work for the edubuntu italian team
[10:41] <Bluekuja> with advocacy in schools and meetings
[10:41] <ogra> mdz, Bluekuja is active with documentation transalations and stuff in edubuntu since a while 
[10:42] <Bluekuja> ogra: thanks :)
[10:42] <mdz> ogra: have you sponsored uploads for him?
[10:42] <ogra> nope
[10:42] <Bluekuja> mdz: i work on packages with simon law
[10:42] <mdz> sfllaw: ping?
[10:42] <sfllaw> Pong.
[10:42] <sfllaw> So...
[10:43] <sfllaw> I've looked at Bluekuja's gtorrentviewer package.
[10:43] <sfllaw> And we've gone through it over a couple of iterations.
[10:43] <sfllaw> It's good enough to get into universe, I think.
[10:43] <mdz> Bluekuja: is that your first package?
[10:44] <Bluekuja> mdz: nope, I've made also a lot of other packages that have to be reviewed
[10:44] <ogra> have you got anything on revu ?
[10:45] <Bluekuja> ogra: gtorrent-viewer, anope
[10:46] <mdz> Bluekuja: anope is a new package?
[10:46] <Bluekuja> mdz: what do you mean? new version or new package?
[10:47] <mdz> Bluekuja: the description for it is not very clear; what does it do?
[10:47] <mdz> Bluekuja: I mean new package
[10:47] <Bluekuja> mdz: it's one of the most famous irc services
[10:47] <Bluekuja> that supports all big servers
[10:47] <Bluekuja> like ircd-hybrid etc
[10:48] <mdz> Bluekuja: what does it do?
[10:48] <ogra> looks like a bot collection
[10:48] <Bluekuja> it provides chanserv, nickserv, hostserv
[10:48] <Bluekuja> opserv
[10:48] <Bluekuja> and botserv
[10:48] <mdz> Bluekuja: that means nothing to people who do not already know what those terms mean :-)
[10:48] <Bluekuja> mdz: sorry for the desc, I'll fix it as soon as possible :)
[10:49] <mdz> Bluekuja: the description also needs to be wrapped; it's a single line of hundreds of characters
[10:49] <Bluekuja> mdz: i work in irc stuff and so I'm really familiar 
[10:49] <Bluekuja> ok perfect, It will be fixed
[10:50] <Bluekuja> i'm working right now on eggdrop
[10:51] <Bluekuja> that is an irc bot, that supports tcl scripts and c modules
[10:51] <mdz> Bluekuja: what are you doing with it?
[10:51] <Bluekuja> ogra: yeah exactly
[10:51] <mdz> ogra: submit@bugs.debian.org
[10:51] <ogra> :)
[10:51] <Bluekuja> mdz: :D
[10:51] <mdz> Bluekuja: hmm?
[10:52] <Bluekuja> mdz: i was saying that I'm currently developing some bots
[10:52] <Bluekuja> of course related to the irc world
[10:52] <Bluekuja> i want to provide a lot of packages for universe
[10:53] <mdz> Bluekuja: I think it would be beneficial to spend more time working with MOTU and others to have your work reviewed and gain more experience with packaging before making unsupervised uploads
[10:53] <mdz> Bluekuja: I'm sure sfllaw will gladly continue to give you feedback on your work
[10:53] <Keybuk> mdz++
[10:53] <Bluekuja> mdz: ok perfect 
[10:54] <mdz> Bluekuja: ogra always welcomes Edubuntu contributions as well :-)
[10:54] <ogra> :)
[10:54] <Keybuk> I agree; continue working with sfllaw, and work a bit more with the MOTU, and you should gain the necessary experience in no time
[10:54] <sfllaw> That he does.
[10:54] <ogra> indeed ! :)
[10:55] <Bluekuja> mdz,keybuk: ok great
[10:55] <mdz> Bluekuja: feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need assistance
[10:55] <mdz> Bluekuja: and thanks for your work so far
[10:56] <Bluekuja> mdz: ok, thanks very much, I'll try to gain more experience in this weeks
[10:56] <mdz> Bluekuja: great!
[10:56] <mdz> is there anyone else here who is newly applying for membership in ubuntu-{core-,}dev?
[10:56] <Bluekuja> mdz: ;) , i have to go now, have a good evening
[10:57] <Bluekuja> cya guys
[10:57] <highvoltage> bye Bluekuja 
[10:57] <ogra> ciao Bluekuja 
[10:57] <mdz> \sh is on the agenda, but not here?
[10:57] <ogra> looks like 
[10:57] <mdz> ok, perhaps at the next meeting then
[10:58] <mdz> siretart: you wanted to discuss backports?
[10:58] <siretart> mdz: yes
[10:58] <siretart> mdz: first, I wanted to ask if there is currently a problem with -backports
[10:58] <siretart> there hasn't been any request processed since quite some time, jdong told me
[10:58] <mdz> siretart: this proposal sounds familiar
[10:59] <mdz> I believe we talked about it before
[10:59] <mdz> I support the idea of -core-dev being able to upload new source to backports
[10:59] <Keybuk> can core-dev not do that today?
[10:59] <mdz> Keybuk: as a matter of policy, to date we have limited backports to syncs
[10:59] <mdz> and indeed, diverging source for backports should be avoided as much as is practical
[10:59] <Keybuk> I guess there's no LP queue for "unapproved backports"
[11:00] <mdz> siretart: when soyuz was first deployed, there was a delay before syncs could be processed, but as far as I know, syncs to backports should be working fine
[11:00] <mdz> siretart: requests should be made to ubuntu-archive, rather than elmo, though
[11:00] <LaserJock> one thing I've found frustrating was there was at least one package I wanted backported but a couple of the deps had been renamed
[11:00] <mdz> siretart: can you communicate that to jdong?
[11:01] <siretart> mdz: well, I imagined 'syncs' to backports arn't really syncs, because they involve fiddling with debian/changelog
[11:01] <siretart> mdz: I told him that syncs are now handled via launchpad and ubuntu archive, but I havn't seen him forwarding bugs yet.
[11:01] <mdz> siretart: if there are any outstanding backport requests, they should be filed in Malone and ubuntu-archive subscribed, as  with other archive requests
[11:01] <siretart> mdz: I'll tell him again, no problem
[11:02] <siretart> ok, what about 'manual' uploads of -core-dev's to -backports?
[11:02] <mdz> siretart: <mdz> I support the idea of -core-dev being able to upload new source to backports
[11:02] <mdz> however: <mdz> and indeed, diverging source for backports should be avoided as much as is practical
[11:03] <ogra> didnt we discuss that in montreal already ?
[11:03] <mjg59> I have a vague query about the numbering mentioned in the proposal
[11:03] <mjg59> Oh, actually, no I don't
[11:03] <siretart> ogra: with what result?
[11:03] <mdz> siretart: can you expand on your question about review?
[11:04] <ogra> siretart, no idea i just remember a discussion there and mdz saying he'd be ok with core-dev uploading
[11:04] <siretart> mdz: well, currently every upload to dapper-updates gets into a 'poket' for manual review, AIUI. do we need that for -backports as well?
[11:05] <siretart> I'm not sure, and I tend to believe that we don't
[11:05] <mdz> siretart: given that backports is disabled by default, and therefore opt-in, I don't think the same caution is needed
[11:05] <siretart> ok
[11:05] <mdz> if the only uploads are sync requests from the backports team, or uploads from -core-dev, I'm happy for them to go straight in
[11:06] <siretart> ok. great
[11:06] <siretart> there is another suggestion. how about opening edgy-backports after edgy's UVF?
[11:06] <siretart> during processing UVF request for dapper, there were quite some requests, which didn't fit for dapper, but for dapper-updates
[11:07] <siretart> users would have been happy if they could have had them there..
[11:07] <mdz> siretart: I have no objection there
[11:07] <siretart> s/dapper-updates/dapper-backports/ that is
[11:07] <mdz> of course
[11:08] <mdz> siretart: edgy-backports may even appear when edgy opens, though it wouldn't make much sense to upload to it just yet
[11:08] <siretart> right. it makes only sense after UVF
[11:08] <mdz> siretart: ping me at UVF if there's any blockage in uploading to edgy-backports
[11:09] <siretart> mdz: will do
[11:09] <siretart> is dapper-backports already open for uploads?
[11:09] <mdz> siretart: do you think your proposal can be turned into a how-to document for backports?
[11:10] <mdz> siretart: it should be, yes
[11:10] <siretart> mdz: I can style that up and rename it to BackportsHowto, no problem
[11:10] <siretart> ok. great
[11:10] <mdz> siretart: excellent, thanks...presumably you'll talk it over with ubuntu-backporters as well?
[11:11] <mdz> siretart: are the members of that team still active?
[11:11] <siretart> mdz: ubuntu backporters is jdong, and mez AFAIK. they both seem to be rather MIA recently.. 
[11:11] <ogra> mez did an evil upload to universe of an unreviewed package just before dapper release ... so he's still alive at least
[11:12] <Riddell> mez is moving house just now
[11:12] <siretart> ah. ok
[11:12] <mdz> siretart: thanks for bringing the issue to our attention; I didn't realize there was confusion about how backports requests were to be handled now
[11:12] <mdz> siretart: are all of your questions answered?
[11:12] <siretart> I'll apply for ubuntu-backports as well
[11:13] <siretart> mdz: all questions answered. thanks!
[11:13] <mdz> great
[11:13] <mdz> any other business from anyone?
[11:14] <ogra> lets free the room for kubuntu :)
[11:14] <imbrandon> ;)
[11:14] <highvoltage> goodnight everyone!
[11:14] <siretart> just a last question - does anyone remember how to apply for ubuntu-backports team?
[11:14] <kmon> hi
[11:14] <ogra> ciao highvoltage 
[11:14] <kmon> did the meeting started?
[11:14] <mdz> siretart: it seems to be restricted
[11:14] <imbrandon> kmon: TB just ending
[11:14] <Lure> hi kmon - kubuntu meeting will start soon
[11:14] <kmon> oh
[11:15] <mdz> siretart: talk to jdong; it should probably be moderated instead
[11:15] <kmon> I've just arrived home
[11:15] <siretart> mdz: I'll sort that out with jdong. he seem to irc from time to time..
[11:15] <toma> kmon: i just hear from reliable sources, that we will start in a minute
[11:15] <ogra> he was here yesterday
[11:15] <mdz> siretart: if you can't get in touch with him or mez to change it, let me know
[11:15] <siretart> ok. will do
[11:15] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[11:15] <mdz> adjourned
[11:15] <ogra> thanks
[11:15] <pygi> Lure, anyone applying for membership in kubuntu?
[11:15] <imbrandon> pygi: one person https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[11:16] <Riddell> so let's start
[11:16] <pygi> imbrandon, I as well? :)
[11:17] <Riddell> agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[11:17] <Riddell> and kmon has the first item
[11:17] <imbrandon> pygi: add your self to the agenda with a link to your wiki page then ;)
[11:18] <pygi> imbrandon, nah, edubuntu one tommorow
[11:18] <pygi> Don't wanna bother people with 2 thingies :)
[11:18] <kmon> ok, my first point is an idea to centralise unofficial packages for kubuntu dapper
[11:18] <kmon> and to do it in a way to avoid replication
[11:18] <claydoh> claydoh is Clay Weber
[11:18] <Riddell> I think this is handled by the last item at the tech board
[11:18] <Riddell> and new packages should be in backports
[11:18] <kmon> maybe give uploading priviledges to people in kubuntu.de to kubuntu.org
[11:19] <kmon> ok
[11:19] <Riddell> what's on kubuntu.de at the moment?
[11:19] <Tonio_> I wanted to say the same Riddell
[11:19] <Lure> Riddell: so kde, amarok will go to backports soon?
[11:19] <kmon> amarok which is a duplicate
[11:19] <Tonio_> we don't really make usage of backports repository...
[11:19] <kmon> kaffeine 0.8
[11:19] <kmon> which is new
[11:19] <pygi> Tonio_, we can make Kubuntu backports team
[11:19] <kmon> k3b
[11:19] <kmon> and other few
[11:19] <toma> (rsibreak)
[11:20] <imbrandon> kmon: yea centralized in -backports, kubuntu.org is more for early adopters and testers that know whats going on
[11:20] <Tonio_> imbrandon: I agree
[11:20] <Riddell> we can't backport things until edgy is open so that's made a gap, but the tech board was saying that edgy-backports will be open as soon as edgy closes for upstream version freeze
[11:20] <pygi> Riddell, indeed
[11:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: good news
[11:20] <Hobbsee> Riddell: when is UVF for edgy
[11:20] <Riddell> I did try to backport all of KDE but backports was broken at the time so it never happened
[11:20] <toma> good
[11:21] <Riddell> Hobbsee: timetable will be set at the paris summit
[11:21] <Hobbsee> that's what i thought
[11:21] <linuxmonkey> cool
[11:21] <ogra> we might not have UVF in edgy :)
[11:21] <kmon> and how about giving priviledges to upload to the kubuntu.org package archive?
[11:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: I think there was an issue with breezy-backports
[11:21] <Tonio_> since packages don't have to be changed from the +1 version and the change to debhelper5
[11:21] <pygi> ogra, that would be joy :)
[11:21] <Riddell> kmon: I can't do that, it's a canonical server
[11:22] <kmon> ok
[11:22] <Riddell> kmon: but the packages on kubuntu.org are KDE and KDE projects only to get the KDE developers liking kubuntu
[11:22] <ogra> pygi, its an official proposal so it might be discussed 
[11:22] <Tonio_> that will not happen with dapper/edgy so make usage of backports should be easier
[11:22] <imbrandon> kmon: or maybe not package archive as they are currently signed with Riddell key but as Hobbsee said people.kubuntu.org/~imbrandon/ etc 
[11:22] <pygi> ogra, we would get more uptodate packages, but lot less bugfixes
[11:23] <Riddell> imbrandon: wait for that agenda item :)
[11:23] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: apparently that's cannonical staff only...
[11:23] <ogra> pygi, thats the plan (but OT in here now)
[11:23] <kmon> then maybe a wiki page or something like that so people can coordinate efforts and avoid duplication
[11:23] <kmon> and for users to have a single point to check out for newver software
[11:23] <kmon> since dapper is going to be here for a long time
[11:23] <imbrandon> kmon: that sounds alot more feasable , so kubuntu.org and kubuntu.de can work togather
[11:23] <Riddell> kmon: backports is that point
[11:24] <kmon> ok
[11:24] <imbrandon> kmon: but also kubuntu.org IS unofficial repos , thus only ealy adopters untill it hits backports
[11:24] <Hobbsee> and Czessi.net, for that matter
[11:24] <kmon> so the answer is wait for backports?
[11:25] <Lure> kmon: I think it is clear now: kubuntu.org is primarily for KDE releases (same day as announcement), while backports is when those are ready for wider testers
[11:25] <imbrandon> basicly , yes , think of kubuntu.org repos as pre-backports ;)
[11:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: is mez still responsible for the backports ?
[11:25] <kmon> then can I suggest a kaffeine package in kubuntu.org?
[11:25] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes, and jdong, but at tech board just now other people said they'd sign up to it
[11:25] <Lure> kmon: I think we need more a wiki page for latest-and-greatest releases so that not 5 people package kopete
[11:26] <kmon> Lure: that's my main point
[11:26] <Hobbsee> Lure: hehe.  i think i only counted 4
[11:26] <Riddell> kmon: kaffeine always has bugs in its releases
[11:26] <Lure> but when package is ready, Riddell can put it on kubuntu.org
[11:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: would be interesting to have one of the backports maintainers here for next meetings, to get technical informations, and policy informations too
[11:27] <imbrandon> Lure: kmon , thats some of what nixternal linuxmonkey and me are trying to do with the current wiki and buntudot.org ( orginise the kubuntu related stuff )
[11:27] <Hobbsee> also, are these packages to go on kubuntu.org going to be put thru the same QA as the stuff to go into the repos?
[11:27] <Riddell> Tonio_: policy is any package in edgy archive that compiles in dapper can be backported I think
[11:27] <Lure> Tonio_: there will be wiki howto for backports (done by siretart)
[11:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: no modifications allowed I presume ?
[11:27] <Lure> Tonio_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReinhardTartler/BackportsProposal is what was discussed today on TB
[11:28] <Tonio_> Lure: thanks ;) I missed this TB.....
[11:28] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes (although looking at tech board discussion that may change in limited cases)
[11:28] <Riddell> Hobbsee: that's why I don't want lots of packages on there
[11:28] <Tonio_> okay
[11:28] <Hobbsee> mmm ok
[11:29] <Riddell> Hobbsee: does this cover your next agenda item too?
[11:29] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i think so
[11:29] <Riddell> any more questions on the topic?
[11:29] <Riddell> kmon: your item, wiki pages
[11:29] <kmon> ok, me again
[11:29] <kmon> the wiki is messy
[11:30] <kmon> kubuntu wiki page is full of pages about everything
[11:30] <kmon> helping users, packaging, testing
[11:30] <imbrandon> kmon , thats some of what nixternal linuxmonkey and me are trying to do with the current wiki and buntudot.org ( make the kubuntu related stuff pretty )
[11:30] <imbrandon> instead of mixed with ubuntu that gets confusing
[11:30] <imbrandon> to new users
[11:30] <linuxmonkey> :)
[11:31] <kmon> imbrandon: interesting
[11:31] <Riddell> kmon: how would you like the "Kubuntu" page to be?
[11:31] <imbrandon> yes the current wiki needs cleaned up and i do think there should be a kubuntu-wiki team
[11:31] <linuxmonkey> Alot of stuff in wiki is version specific, what I think we  want to do is take all the kubuntu stuff and make it simple for users to find/use
[11:31] <kmon> More like ubuntu front page
[11:32] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: you've misspelled cannonical.
[11:32] <nixternal> lol
[11:32] <kmon> more organised
[11:32] <imbrandon> whoops , i'll fix it after the meeting
[11:32] <Riddell> sounds like we have a number of people interested in helping :)
[11:32] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: in fact, just generally proofread it - i saw two errors in one line :P
[11:33] <imbrandon> there is only one line currently ;)
[11:33] <Lure> in general it would be good to separate User stuff from Community/Developers stuff
[11:33] <kmon> Lure: yes
[11:33] <nixternal> i have aided with documentation in the form of reviews, articles, and how-to's for various sites over the past years...writing is a hobby and somethine i enjoy..only tech writing though ;)
[11:34] <linuxmonkey> even if there are parts of the wiki that are not DM specific, the sections that do have DM specific stuff should be kept seperate as users get confused
[11:34] <Lure> and inside that have version specific stuff that can get easily hidden (not linked) when new release is out
[11:34] <Riddell> DM?
[11:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: display manager, i think
[11:34] <linuxmonkey> my bad
[11:34] <linuxmonkey> yea
[11:34] <kmon> it should be DE :P
[11:35] <goldenear> Also it may be nice to organize the pages function of the user skill (eg beginer pages, advanced user pages, administrator pages, dev pages)
[11:35] <linuxmonkey> meaning KDE/Gnome etc..
[11:35] <Riddell> kmon, imbrandon, nixternal, linuxmonkey and goldenear should chat about this when they can and work out how to tidy the wiki pages
[11:35] <Riddell> there's lots of things on there that are now obsolete or need updating
[11:35] <Lure> can somebody write a spec what should be done - otherwise it will be hard to allign the efforts of many people...
[11:35] <kmon> Riddell: yes
[11:35] <Hobbsee> as is the case with a lof of wiki pages, of course
[11:35] <imbrandon> sure Lure
[11:35] <toma> but i would not like to see a split to buntudot.org that would not help any user
[11:35] <Riddell> I think it just needs going over all the pages and working out which ones need to be linked from the Kubuntu page and in what sane order
[11:36] <kmon> and maybe talk to the ubuntu documentation team and ask for help
[11:36] <imbrandon> toma no not split thats a whole diffrent ball game
[11:36] <toma> oki
[11:37] <Riddell> shall we move on?
[11:37] <Riddell> Hobbsee: your item
[11:37] <imbrandon> more clean up the current wiki and make sure there is kubuntu instructions for everything, as currently there is mostly only gnome specific stuff and screen shots etc
[11:37] <linuxmonkey> lol
[11:37] <Hobbsee> Is it possible to get upload space or something on kubuntu.org? eg, kubuntu.org/people/~hobbsee? Would it be useful? Who would we give it to?
[11:37] <Hobbsee> although i heard later that that's cannonical people only...
[11:38] <Riddell> short anwer is no, canonical doesn't give out server space to non-employees
[11:38] <Lure> I heard that new LP will have private repos - but not sure for whom...
[11:38] <Hobbsee> is there some sort of equivalent place that we can upload to, or just use REVU, and say "do not review"?
[11:38] <Riddell> and people.ubuntu.com is badly named, it was named before ubuntu was public
[11:38] <Riddell> however if you read daniel silverstone's interview on behindubuntu you'll see they're planning personal archives on launchpad
[11:39] <Riddell> so you can upload your source packages and they'll get compiled (at low priority) and put into your personal archive
[11:39] <kmon> then we need another kde employeed :P
[11:39] <toma> ok
[11:39] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: for the time being i can give you server space on my server and a shell account if thats what your needing atm 
[11:39] <kmon> s/kde/kde dev
[11:39] <Hobbsee> hehe, cool
[11:39] <Tonio_> Lure: hehe
[11:39] <Riddell> also the supermirror may one day actually happen and at that time you can push your bzr source archives onto it
[11:40] <imbrandon> nice
[11:40] <Hobbsee> cool, okay
[11:40] <toma> certificate
[11:40] <imbrandon> that would be good considering then they could be compiled for more than i386 or whatever is used by the dev
[11:40] <imbrandon> like sf.net compilefarm
[11:40] <Hobbsee> certificate...mmm...please someone fix it...
[11:40] <Riddell> in the mean time ask around and probably somebody can give you an account on their server
[11:41] <Hobbsee> Riddell: okay
[11:41] <Riddell> I put in a request to sysadmin to fix the certificate
[11:41] <Riddell> no reply yet
[11:41] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: after the meeting pm me and i'll set ya up
[11:41] <Hobbsee> Riddell: excellent!
[11:41] <Hobbsee> my upload limit is pretty slow anywya, but thanks
[11:41] <Riddell> you could try very gently asking one of the sysadmins but I suspect it's low priority for them
[11:41] <Hobbsee> well yeah
[11:41] <Lure> Riddell: I doubt it will be easy fix - our IT has same problems with certificates ;-)
[11:42] <Riddell> "now that we're between releases"  releases don't really affect it
[11:42] <Riddell> toma: your item
[11:42] <toma> anyone using keytouch? I installed it a couple of days ago and was impressed. It just works. (see my blog) Sime approached me and mentioned that it could go into guidance when I adjust it. I wanted to know your opinions
[11:42] <Riddell> what is it?
[11:42] <toma> i contacted upstream and he is very helpfull 
[11:43] <kmon> toma: can you give a link to the blog?
[11:43] <toma> it is an app to make your multi media keys work
[11:43] <imbrandon> yes i've used / using keytouch right now, its a very nice piece of soft
[11:43] <imbrandon> very clean
[11:43] <Tonio_> toma: very interesting :)
[11:43] <Riddell> how does it work?
[11:43] <linuxmonkey> url? cause i'll want to get that
[11:43] <toma> kmon: http://www.omat.nl/drupal/?q=node/79
[11:43] <kmon> toma: oh, nevermind. I remeber reading that on the planet
[11:43] <Riddell> it may be interesting for https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuLaptopButtons
[11:44] <toma> Riddell: i believe it works with a kernel module and a daemon, but i have to look into that. Not sure about the module
[11:44] <imbrandon> the nice thing about it is keyboards that arent supported out of the box are trivial to add 
[11:44] <Lure> Riddell: can be, but we want something more hardcoded for Ubuntu laptop keycodes
[11:44] <toma> it has a separate gui, so easily fits in guidance.
[11:44] <Riddell> toma: I'll take a look at it and we'll consider it at the Paris summit for that spec
[11:44] <toma> imbrandon: indeed
[11:45] <toma> making unsupported keyboards work is easy
[11:45] <linuxmonkey> thats a good thing
[11:45] <Lure> Riddell: it more fixes the problem of X keyboard layouts not being updated fast enough
[11:45] <Riddell> kernel module sounds a bit scary though
[11:45] <pygi> Riddell, if anybody is interested in implementing that Guidance for Grub, I am willing to provide assistance
[11:45] <pygi> (me is sorry for interupting)
[11:46] <Riddell> toma: your item again
[11:46] <toma> Riddell: ok. The current kde interface is bad imho. and if you have an unsupported kayboard, you have to make your own mapping somewhere in X. 
[11:46] <Tonio_> toma: as long as the kernel recognises the keys, which doesn't work on my vaio....
[11:46] <toma> that is scary ;-)
[11:46] <toma> Tonio_: not sure.
[11:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was thinking to do it :) I bought it yesterday, so gimme a moment plz ;)
[11:47] <toma> Tonio_: we need to check later, ok?
[11:47] <Tonio_> toma: sure ;)
[11:47] <Lure> Tonio_: your vaio should be suppported by hotkey-setup
[11:47] <toma> my next item was pretty good described in the wiki. 
[11:47] <Lure> and kernel driver
[11:47] <toma> i really have had it with all those mediaplayers
[11:48] <Riddell> "Instead of having totem/xine/codeine/kmplayer & kaffeine"
[11:48] <toma> why don't we ship 1 which works
[11:48] <toma> and the rest optional
[11:48] <Tonio_> Lure: I use fsfn + sonypi but we'll discuss this later :)
[11:48] <imbrandon> afaik kaffeine is the only kubuntu default
[11:48] <Riddell> because none work in all situations?
[11:48] <Riddell> imbrandon: we ship kaffeine, kmplayer and amarok
[11:48] <Riddell> if we removed amarok we'd be lynched
[11:48] <toma> because its confusing imho
[11:48] <Hobbsee> Riddell: sure about kmplayer?
[11:49] <imbrandon> what does kmplayer do that kaffeine dosent ?
[11:49] <Riddell> and kmplayer is plugin only, which we added because kaffeine plugin is unstable
[11:49] <imbrandon> and kmplay i dont think is dafualt
[11:49] <imbrandon> ahh
[11:49] <Lure> imbrandon: does not crash konqueror
[11:49] <Hobbsee> oh
[11:49] <Riddell> we don't install the kmplayer app by default
[11:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: I would vote for kmplayer only since it's only default is the UI which is in the work actually
[11:49] <toma> besides deciding which app, would we go with that scenario?
[11:49] <goldenear> I'm currently with koos on the successor of kmplayer named oskar
[11:50] <Riddell> toma: which scenario?
[11:50] <Tonio_> toma: I personnaly don't like audio/video players
[11:50] <Riddell> goldenear: what's that all about?
[11:50] <Tonio_> I like when they are separate
[11:50] <toma> Riddell: ship one which works
[11:50] <Tonio_> toma: since the needs are different between audio and video
[11:50] <Riddell> toma: sure, when you make one that works 
[11:50] <Lure> Tonio_: +1
[11:50] <linuxmonkey> Tonio_: your like me I run XMMS for audio and something else for video
[11:50] <imbrandon> or ship the best one and fix it ;)
[11:51] <kmon> Tonio_: and amarok is the best audio app out there
[11:51] <toma> we can work closely with upstream to make it do what we want
[11:51] <goldenear> oskar will be the nex version of kmplayer... it's intented to have all the power of kmplayer (and the nice embedded feature) but also a much better UI for the standalone player
[11:51] <Tonio_> toma: but I agree it is not very nice to ship a standalone player and another for the konqueror part.........
[11:51] <Tonio_> this should be one only application
[11:51] <Riddell> goldenear: that sounds lovely
[11:51] <Lure> Tonio_: can we configure kaffeine to use kmplayer kpart ;-)
[11:51] <toma> Tonio_: yes, and one for audio and one for video is of course fine
[11:52] <Tonio_> the problem is that kaffeine-part may never work correctly
[11:52] <goldenear> Also koos would need some help from an experienced kde dev
[11:52] <toma> goldenear: why? he is one
[11:52] <claydoh> I like kmplayer, as its plugin works for konq, for one thing
[11:52] <Riddell> koos is an experienced kde dev!
[11:53] <Riddell> interesting question for edgy will be the xine/gstreamer debate again
[11:53] <Tonio_> since according to upstream the crash is due to konqueror, so he doesn't want to go the way kmplayer does (playing in a separate xsession and binding the video output to the konqueror window)
[11:53] <goldenear> but he would need help to work on the "cosmetic" on the UI
[11:53] <toma> goldenear: did he say that?
[11:53] <goldenear> (I'm speaking about kmplayer)
[11:54] <goldenear> Yes, I had a discussion with koos on the irc
[11:54] <Lure> Tonio_: but kmplayer's way is just better imho anyhow
[11:54] <goldenear> we spoke about some improvement needed for the kmplayer standalone player
[11:54] <Tonio_> Lure: I agree, but kaffeine's upstream doesn't want to make it work that way........
[11:54] <goldenear> also we chose a new name for the project: oskar
[11:55] <Riddell> kmplayer does get very confusing
[11:55] <Riddell> as a name
[11:55] <Tonio_> Lure: btw, kaffeine is now becoming a mess with those audio features that dupplicate amarok/konqueror/kaudiocreator
[11:55] <goldenear> kmplayer sounds too much like a mplayer frontend only. (kmplayer can also use xine, gstreamer... and soon phonon :) )
[11:55] <Riddell> goldenear: what is Koos' IRC nick?
[11:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: the name is gonna change to oskar
[11:55] <goldenear> Riddell: koos
[11:55] <imbrandon> yea it would be nice to look at just oskar for edgy
[11:55] <Riddell> don't think I've seen him on IRC
[11:56] <toma> me neither
[11:56] <Tonio_> imbrandon: I would agree with this approach
[11:56] <linuxmonkey> yeah imbrandon i agree with that too
[11:56] <toma> ++
[11:56] <Lure> ++
[11:56] <goldenear> here is a mockup for oskar I've done : http://goldenear.online.fr/oskar/oskar_mockup.jpg
[11:56] <imbrandon> well oskar ++ amarok ;)
[11:57] <Riddell> if oskar is ready in time for edgy it sounds like a good candidate replacement for kaffeine
[11:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: true ;)
[11:57] <goldenear> also the playlist an the left is ugly (but it's how it currently looks)
[11:57] <toma> else kmplayer?
[11:57] <Riddell> goldenear: arg!  multiple level trees!
[11:57] <Hobbsee> Riddell: dont you just love them?  *ducks*
[11:57] <goldenear> Riddell: the playlist is ugly and will be change... 
[11:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, the UI really needs polishing :)
[11:58] <goldenear> this is juste a mockup made from different screenshots
[11:58] <Riddell> maybe we can get ellen to come up with good interface at Paris
[11:58] <toma> yes
[11:58] <toma> good idea
[11:58] <Riddell> ok, I'll make a spec for that and we'll see what comes of it
[11:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: kaffeine could give ideas ! it's UI is really nice (the problem is behind ^^)
[11:58] <imbrandon> whom is the main dev on amarok ?
[11:58] <toma> Riddell: else i can ask Tina to help us
[11:58] <kmon> talking about paris... are the kde people invited to go to paris involved in writting specs now
[11:59] <goldenear> If somebody could work with koos on the interface (especialy for adding the left sidebar) it would be great :)
[11:59] <Riddell> kmon: I'll send out an e-mail to them
[11:59] <kmon> Riddell: their responses could be a nice inclusion in next ubuntu newsletter ;)
[11:59] <Riddell> so, talking of specs, the ones I have so far are listed at https://launchpad.net/people/jr/+specs
[12:00] <Riddell> all the "Undefined" ones
[12:00] <Riddell> please add any comments you have to their wiki pages
[12:00] <Riddell> and did everyone read the first ubuntu newsletter?
[12:01] <Hobbsee> what was in it?
[12:01] <imbrandon> what mailing list ?
[12:01] <Riddell> ubuntu-news
[12:01] <Lure> Hobbsee: Kubuntu section ;-)
[12:01] <imbrandon> i get 3k messages a day so i WILL read it but not as of yet
[12:01] <Hobbsee> Lure: i remember that much - just not what was in it :P
[12:01] <goldenear> I would also add Kubuntu ACPI
[12:01] <nixternal> imbrandon...bugs?
[12:01] <Riddell> goldenear: covered by laptop-buttons and power-management
[12:02] <Lure> Hobbsee: just release announcement and paris KDE invited devell
[12:02] <Hobbsee> oh that's right...
[12:02] <Riddell> if you have items for the next newsletter please add them to the wiki page
[12:02] <Riddell> ok, do we have any member candidates here?
[12:02] <goldenear> Edgy would need good ACPI support not only for laptops... I would like to be able to suspend my *desktop* computer too (Gnome can do it)
[12:03] <toma> linuxmonkey: PING you are now!
[12:03] <Tonio_> goldenear: isn't kpowersave able to do that ?
[12:03] <Lure> goldenear: your problem is that klaptop is too smart and then too dumb - it does /proc/acpi reading and assumes laptops - it should use hal
[12:04] <Lure> Tonio_: powersave may help, but then it will not use Ubuntu base.... :-(
[12:04] <Hobbsee> linuxmonkey: i dont think you're supposed to admit that you were asleep
[12:04] <linuxmonkey> Hi my name is Terry Jacob and I want to apply to membership as to be able to work with a great bunch of people and become more dedicated to kubuntu
[12:04] <goldenear> I already explained that on the devel channel: kpowersave can suspend my computer... but the computer then hangs during wake-up :(
[12:04] <Tonio_> Lure: yes I know that..........