[12:09] <lucasvo> ahh
[12:09] <lucasvo> a warm bed is waiting for me
[12:09] <lucasvo> good night everybody
[12:09] <lucasvo> good luck pygi and hedgemage
[12:10] <pygi> enjoy lucasvo ;)
[12:10] <pygi> and thanks :)
[12:10] <lucasvo> good night mhz :)
[12:10] <pygi> hey hey mhz_ ;)
[12:11] <mhz_> lucasvo: hi
[12:11] <mhz_> pygi: hi
[12:11] <pygi> oki ;)
[12:17] <pygi> people,enjoy
[12:53] <mhz> guys
[12:53] <mhz> Why would clients get a diff keyboard layout than the one they can actually get when sitting at the server?
[12:58] <chotchki> hey guys how do you kick off the text install in the live cd version? (i cant get x over 640x480 to do the gui install)
[12:59] <Burgwork> chotchki, you can't, afaik
[12:59] <chotchki> crap, is there anyway to boost the xorg server to higher resolution without having the hardware?
[01:00] <Burgwork> you can try editing the xorg.conf and then restarting X
[01:00] <Burgwork> saner to just use the text install
[01:01] <chotchki> joy
[01:02] <chotchki> thx brb
[03:03] <blankey> I keep getting debootstrap warnings when I'm trying to install edubuntu. The integrity tool in the setup menu says the CD is valid though. What could be causing this?
[03:25] <bddebian> Heya
[03:51] <Burglaptop> anselmolsm: you around?
[03:51] <anselmolsm> Burglaptop: I'm here
[03:52] <Burglaptop> anselmolsm: shall we do this in the channel or in a /query ?
[03:54] <anselmolsm> maybe in a /query
[03:54] <anselmolsm> Burglaptop, maybe in a query...
[04:09] <Burglaptop> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RemoveRemoteEyeCandy <-- this looks like a seriously good thing
[04:10] <jsgotangco> :P
[04:14] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: why are you not in #ubuntu-doc ?
[04:16] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: lol
[04:16] <jsgotangco> because i'm in a xubuntu machine that doesn't have my irc defaults in irssi
[04:16] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: likely he at work
[04:16] <Burglaptop> ah
[04:17] <jsgotangco> i use a pretty crap laptop at work and xfce is the only thing worth running
[06:07] <Burgundavia> hey HedgeMage
[06:07] <HedgeMage> hey burg
[06:07] <HedgeMage> what's up?
[06:07] <Burgundavia> not much
[06:09] <HedgeMage> Burgundavia == Corey, correct?
[06:09] <Burgundavia> yep
[06:09] <Burgundavia> and Burglaptop and Burgwork
[06:09] <HedgeMage> just checking :)
[06:09] <HedgeMage> saw your email about that group on Vancouver Island... that's just a short road (or boat) trip from here.
[06:10] <Burgundavia> indeed it is
[06:10] <Burgundavia> there is a pretty strong Ubuntu community here in Victoria
[06:11] <HedgeMage> cool
[06:12] <HedgeMage> We should have an "edubuntu at sea" get together or something :P
[06:12] <Burgundavia> indeed
[06:13] <Burgundavia> I fly through Seattle about twice or three times a year, so we could get together then
[06:13] <HedgeMage> just let me know when you are around :)
[06:13] <Burgundavia> well, I am going to be there from 8pm till midnight on the 22nd :)
[06:14] <HedgeMage> LOL we should get together for dinner or something if your plane is on time
[06:14] <Burgundavia> taking the clipper in and then flying out at midnight
[06:15] <HedgeMage> clipper?
[06:16] <Burgundavia> Victoria Clipper
[06:19] <Burgundavia> http://wikitravel.org/en/Victoria_(British_Columbia)
[06:20] <crimsun> I think people are more impressed with Edubuntu than "just" Ubuntu :-)
[06:20] <Burgundavia> Edubuntu has a purpose
[06:21] <crimsun> Gave an informal presentation on Dapper tonight to a small uni LUG, and many of the older members with children were raving about Edubuntu.
[06:21] <HedgeMage> Burgundavia: ahh
[06:21] <Burgundavia> it is a real need
[06:21] <HedgeMage> crimsun: awesome
[06:22] <HedgeMage> Burgundavia: I've been saying that since my days with <winces> that /other/ edu distro
[06:22] <Burgundavia> which one?
[06:22] <HedgeMage> debian-edu
[06:22] <crimsun> Thursday night I'll try to work in a section on Edubuntu to TriLUG, hosted at Red Hat corp headquarters, which has all but been converted to Ubuntu. :-)
[06:23] <HedgeMage> Burgundavia: the reason I spent two months doing doc stuff while I made certain you people aren't psyhopaths before giving you any coding or packaging love :P
[06:23] <Burgundavia> ah, yes
[06:23] <crimsun> better beware of that Corey, he's a psycho
[06:23] <Burgundavia> :)
[06:24] <Burgundavia> totally unstable, can't commit to anything
[06:24] <Burgundavia> random tourettes, the whole bit, thats me
[06:24] <HedgeMage> lol
[06:25] <Burgundavia> that is why the people in my office call the  "happy one"
[06:31] <magnon> hehe, hi Corey
[06:31] <Burgundavia> hey magnon, long delay on that
[06:33] <magnon> yes, I lag
[06:33] <Burgundavia> is the cold, effects the brain
[06:34] <magnon> actually it's almost 20c these days
[06:35] <magnon> bah, just took a look out, it rains and all. and I woke up now (06) and going to work at 10
[06:51] <HedgeMage> I'm off to bed
[06:51] <HedgeMage> talk to you all later
[07:07] <HedgeMage> so much for sleep.
[07:09] <Burgundavia> HedgeMage: I noticed that
[07:10] <HedgeMage> oh, well
[07:10] <HedgeMage> who needs sleep anyway?
[07:12] <HedgeMage> Burgundavia: what do you think about Tom Hoffman's post to the dev list (and others) about sifa ?
[07:12] <Burgundavia> HedgeMage: looked good, but I didn't relaly understand it, nor does it really affect me
[07:13] <HedgeMage> Ahh, I've been rolling it around in my head a bit, trying to figure out if it's a good or bad idea
[07:13] <HedgeMage> (though regardless of it being good or bad, getting it implimented in time for Edgy is nuts!)
[07:15] <HedgeMage> I ran into something along those lines back in the '90s... they wanted us to impliment it in debian-edu... 
[07:16] <HedgeMage> Disclaimer: I had the fun of shopping in a store full of stuff I'm allergic to today, so I'm quite out of it and may not make any sense at all)
[07:18] <th1a> Hi folks.
[07:18] <th1a> Yes, I agree that SIF isn't a six month project.
[07:19] <th1a> Not sure how to fit something that takes longer than six months into the discussion.
[07:22] <HedgeMage> hi th1a 
[07:22] <HedgeMage> :)
[07:22] <th1a> Hi HedgeMage.
[07:23] <th1a> There was some kind of eduml or something that was started as an all open source interoperability standard.
[07:23] <th1a> Didn't get too far.
[07:24] <th1a> You might be thinking of that.
[07:24] <HedgeMage> don't remember that one... the one I'm thinking of whas called ICE... interoperable classroom something...
[07:24] <th1a> Huh.
[07:25] <th1a> That doesn't ring a bell.
[07:25] <HedgeMage> it was mid-90s I think
[07:25] <HedgeMage> maybe late 90s
[07:26] <HedgeMage> it folded quickly due to poor design
[07:26] <th1a> SIF is well established in the US at this point and starting to spread overseas.
[07:26] <th1a> Just no open source tools or brainshare.
[07:27] <HedgeMage> I did a little research on it earlier today
[07:29] <th1a> It is neither sexy nor elegant.
[07:29] <cbx33> hi all
[07:29] <HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
[07:29] <th1a> hi cbx33 
[07:29] <cbx33> anyone know how the email from Taskill Calvillo <taskili@buttons.net> got through onto the edubuntu-devel list?
[07:29] <cbx33> did SA just not catch it?
[07:29] <cbx33> hi HedgeMage th1a 
[07:30] <cbx33> oh darn it, gotta go get ready for work
[07:30] <HedgeMage> ok ttyl
[07:30] <cbx33> see ya all soon
[07:31] <HedgeMage> th1a: when I'm more coherent (sick right now) I'll look at the spec itself, but the niche, at least, needs to be filled
[07:32] <th1a> We're quickly leaving the "would be nice" phase to the "badly needed" state.
[07:33] <th1a> Right now I'm just trying to figure out how difficult the development will be.  Doing some prototyping.
[07:42] <HedgeMage> th1a: I think support in Edubuntu would depend largely (but not completely) on upstream support from the teams who put together the apps we use.
[07:43] <th1a> Of course.
[07:43] <HedgeMage> I can't speak for sure, as I'm a peon around here, but I don't expect we could maintain it as a bunch of patchsets ourselves.
[07:43] <th1a> The problem is that someone has to put together a ZIS.
[07:43] <th1a> Frankly, I'm aiming all this more at sabdfl than the community...
[07:44] <th1a> but I thought I should include the larger community.
[07:44] <th1a> Zone Integration Server.
[07:44] <HedgeMage> ahh
[07:44] <th1a> You need one of those to tie everything together.
[07:44] <HedgeMage> again, sorry if I'm out of it
[07:44] <th1a> Writing the "agents" for each app is relatively straightforward.
[07:44] <th1a> It's ok.
[07:45] <th1a> But that's the rub.  No free ZIS, no agent for free apps.
[07:45] <HedgeMage> yeah... I'll take a look at the spec... if it's something that will hold up better than ICE I'm all for it
[07:46] <th1a> SIF's biggest problem technically is its age.  It's basically an XML web services architecture that predates SOAP, XML-RPC, etc.
[07:46] <HedgeMage> hmmm
[07:46] <th1a> So it is definitely different than if you were to start it fresh today.
[07:46] <th1a> But it works.
[08:11] <HedgeMage> hello
[08:34] <Burgundavia> hey pygi
[08:34] <pygi> Burgundavia, hey hey, how are you?
[08:34] <Burgundavia> good, Anselmo got started on a spec
[08:34] <HedgeMage> hi pygi 
[08:35] <pygi> Burgundavia, nice :)
[08:35] <pygi> hey HedgeMage 
[08:35] <pygi> Burgundavia, just poke when you have time so we can discuss stuff
[08:35] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SafetyBoat
[08:35] <Burgundavia> might have time tomorrow, depending on how slack I am at work
[08:37] <pygi> oki, no worries
[08:54] <HedgeMage> have a meeting date/time for me yet?
[08:54] <pygi> HedgeMage, what I did this time? :P
[08:54] <HedgeMage> pygi: it's just your regularly scheduled nagging :P
[08:55] <pygi> HedgeMage, meeting ... hm.. tuesday 20:00 UTC?
[08:56] <pygi> ttyl
[08:57] <HedgeMage> hi highvoltage 
[08:58] <HedgeMage> pygi: pat yourself on the back and join jabber@conference.jabber.org
[08:59] <HedgeMage> pygi: Cookbook is getting complimented :D
[08:59] <HedgeMage> pygi: next tuesday at 20:00 UTC is just fine, btw
[09:01] <pygi_> HedgeMage, is that day fine for you?
[09:01] <HedgeMage> pygi_: yep, should be :)
[09:01] <highvoltage> hi HedgeMage 
[09:02] <HedgeMage> ohhh, highvoltage and pygi_ together at one time, cool
[09:02] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: i'm still waking up, not teasing you :)
[09:02] <highvoltage> hmmm... that sounds scary
[09:02] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: ROFL
[09:03] <HedgeMage> I wanted to bring up the idea of moving Cookbook from the wiki to the drupal site (using the community-edited-book module)
[09:04] <HedgeMage> would still let everyone work together, and would give us a few nicities we don't have on the wiki (like automagical "show on one page" or "show one chapter per page" or printer friendly version" stuff)
[09:04] <cbx33> hey all
[09:04] <HedgeMage> hi cbx33 :D
[09:04] <cbx33> hey HedgeMage 
[09:04] <cbx33> HedgeMage: ooooh what are we discussing?
[09:04] <pygi_> HedgeMage, meeting? :)
[09:04] <HedgeMage> okay :D
[09:04] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: thanks :)
[09:04] <HedgeMage> didn't know if we expected highvoltage to make it
[09:04] <HedgeMage> or I'd have pretended to have patience ;)
[09:05] <highvoltage> sorry, what's going on?
[09:05] <HedgeMage> cbx33: apparently I'm more impatient than I thought :P
[09:05] <cbx33> hehe
[09:05] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: are you coming to the Edubuntu cookbook meeting?
[09:05] <highvoltage> when is that?
[09:05] <HedgeMage> next week tuesday, 20:00 UTC
[09:05] <cbx33> ah that'll be ok
[09:06] <cbx33> I'll see if I can come to that too
[09:06] <HedgeMage> cool
[09:06] <pygi_> cbx33, you are supposed to come ;)
[09:06] <cbx33> that's what I thought
[09:06] <cbx33> I just hadn't heard it was happening :p
[09:06] <HedgeMage> cbx33: that's because I just squeezed a date and time out of mario a few minutes ago :)
[09:06] <pygi_> I just made up that time few secs ago so HedgeMage would stop bothering :P
[09:07] <cbx33> oh i seee
[09:07] <pygi_> ergh :P
[09:07] <HedgeMage> :P
[09:07] <pygi_> I maybe won't be able to come to meeting today :(
[09:07] <HedgeMage> awww :(
[09:07] <HedgeMage> how come?
[09:07] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: yes, i can make that
[09:08] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: awesome... I'll bug you about it then :D
[09:08] <pygi_> highvoltage, you got urself into big trouble now ;P
[09:08] <HedgeMage> LOL
[09:08] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok, although i'm not an official contributor, but since i am working on the tuxlab cookbook, i'll be available
[09:08] <HedgeMage> the downside to IRC meetings, of course, is that I can't bring chocolate with which to pacify the attendees :P
[09:08] <highvoltage> pygi_: i don't want to get myself in trouble with you again!
[09:09] <pygi_> highvoltage, again in trouble with me? What I did to you again?
[09:09] <pygi_> It seems I bring only bad stuff in here? :P
[09:09] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: does that work? i've been wanting to try it with ice cream before
[09:09] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: mostly want to have you because you maintain edubuntu.org and I'm going to propose moving the cookbook from wiki to drupal book :)
[09:09] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: yes, very well actually.
[09:09] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: people argue less when chewing :P
[09:09] <highvoltage> pygi_: nah, it was about that cookbook chapters, remember?
[09:09] <cbx33> eeewwwwwww
[09:09] <pygi_> highvoltage, bah :)
[09:10] <highvoltage> cbx33: and you wander why your keys get stuck!?
[09:10] <HedgeMage> cbx33: the internet does not yet have a food protocol... if only it did 
[09:10] <cbx33> That's a different machine
[09:10] <cbx33> I don;t care about my work machine
[09:10] <HedgeMage> rofl
[09:11] <cbx33> you know I invented the WaT protocol for use with plastic cups and string
[09:11] <cbx33> Waggle and Tug :p
[09:11] <HedgeMage> rofl
[09:11] <cbx33> maybe I should invent a food one too
[09:12] <cbx33> ok guys got a question
[09:12] <cbx33> say I have a server which has a user called pete with a uid of 500
[09:13] <HedgeMage> cbx33: there is no cooked/uncooked bit in TCP/IP packet headers :P
[09:13] <cbx33> and on my client machine I have a user called pete with uid of 1000
[09:13] <cbx33> I want to mount an nfs partition
[09:13] <cbx33> what are my options
[09:13] <cbx33> because it won;t mount natively because the uids are different
[09:14] <pygi> mount on boot throught fstab?
[09:14] <cbx33> no
[09:14] <cbx33> just mount in general
[09:16] <cbx33> nfs won;t mount if the uid's are different
[09:17] <HedgeMage> sorry, cbx33, no clue... I always make them the same
[09:17] <cbx33> but i didn;'t have the chance
[09:19] <HedgeMage> I wasn't picking on you, just saying I'm clueless :)
[09:19] <cbx33> I know
[09:19] <cbx33> I would have done that too if I'd have been able
[09:21] <pygi> cbx33, what about "anonuid"?
[09:23] <cbx33> hmm?
[09:24] <pygi> ok, nevermind, ignore that
[09:24] <pygi> what about keeping user in a LDAP?
[09:25] <cbx33> *bah* too much trouble for now.....I've never used LDAP before
[09:25] <cbx33> never mind
[09:25] <cbx33> I'll just ....oooooooh
[09:25] <pygi> ergh, it's not that hard to setup ;)
[09:25] <cbx33> I remember I have a samba share setup
[09:25] <cbx33> pygi: but it could be for someone who's never done it before
[09:26] <pygi> cbx33, indeed :-
[09:26] <pygi> :-/
[09:26] <cbx33> hehe
[09:30] <HedgeMage> Aha! figured out what the strange noise is
[09:30] <HedgeMage> there was a raccoon on my balcony
[09:30] <cbx33> ooooh
[09:31] <HedgeMage> apparently  the anti-toddler escape measures were making its escape difficult, so it jumped for the lattice below the rail in one jump, almost falling off the balcony, then scrambling back up :)
[09:31] <HedgeMage> it was kinda cute
[09:31] <pygi> cbx33, hm, or another solution
[09:32] <HedgeMage> though, it reminds me why I close the balcony door each night
[09:32] <pygi> You may set the file to indicate static mapping for uid/gid. The option points to the file /etc/nfs/home_map.cats and may look like this:
[09:32] <pygi> map_static=/etc/nfs/home map.cats
[09:33] <cbx33> pygi: I'm listening
[09:33] <pygi> in /etc/exports
[09:33] <pygi> the home_map.cats stuff may be:
[09:33] <pygi> # Mapping for cat's machines:
[09:33] <pygi> #    server    client
[09:33] <pygi> uid   0-60       -    # switch to nobody
[09:33] <pygi> uid   61-80     41    # map 61-80 into 41-60
[09:33] <HedgeMage> hi waqas 
[09:34] <pygi> cbx33, do you at least have a clue about what I said? :-/
[09:34] <cbx33> yeh totally
[09:34] <HedgeMage> pygi: that's an awesome bit of knowledge, I'm filing it away somewhere, too
[09:35] <waqas> hi HedgeMage
[09:39] <cbx33> pygi: would i set the map_static in the exports file?
[09:39] <cbx33>  /home/pete/www          172.29.97.103(rw,map_static=/etc/nfs/www.map)
[09:39] <cbx33> cos that didn't work
[09:40] <cbx33> Starting NFS services:  exportfs: /etc/exports:3: unknown keyword "map_static=/etc/nfs/www.map"
[09:40] <HedgeMage> we're up to four raccoons out there now (just outside, not on my balcony) and they're driving the downstairs neighbors nuts
[09:44] <pygi> cbx33, try putting it prior to all, and just put map_stetic in part with options
[09:45] <pygi> (the map_static variable)
[09:45] <pygi> map_static*
[09:45] <cbx33> ?S?S?
[09:45] <cbx33> :p
[09:45] <pygi> ok, this:
[09:45] <cbx33> oh do you mean
[09:45] <cbx33> as a single option
[09:45] <cbx33> ok
[09:45] <cbx33> hang on
[09:45] <pygi> map_static=/etc/nfs/www.map
[09:45] <pygi> ok, will wait
[09:46] <cbx33> :D
[09:46] <cbx33> thanks pygi
[09:46] <pygi> cbx33, worked?
[09:47] <cbx33> looks like it
[09:47] <pygi> congrats then ;)
[09:48] <HedgeMage> yay :D
[09:48] <waqas> :)
[09:48] <pygi> gimme your exports file somewhere to see if you did it good :)
[09:53] <waqas> HedgeMage: no-one seems to know :(
[09:53] <pygi> waqas, what do you need?
[09:53] <pygi> cbx33, you alive or playing with NFS? :P
[09:53] <waqas> Can someone please tell me how I change the display resolution of the ubuntu login screen?
[09:53] <cbx33> playing...
[09:54] <cbx33> now it's complaining about something else
[09:54] <waqas> googling for that just gives pages with the same question, but no answers
[09:54] <pygi> cbx33, like what?
[09:54] <cbx33> forward DNS
[09:54] <pygi> waqas, you mean GDM login screen resoulution?
[09:54] <HedgeMage> !resolution
[09:54] <ubotu> resolution is, like, at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FixVideoResolutionHowto
[09:54] <pygi> cbx33, exact error pls?
[09:54] <waqas> yeah
[09:55] <pygi> HedgeMage, I dont think that influences GDM
[09:56] <HedgeMage> pygi: I don't know what's there, I just guessed that ubotu might know something
[09:56] <HedgeMage> and did a randomly-chosen command
[09:56] <HedgeMage> sometimes it helps
[09:56] <waqas> hmm, the page does have "GDM uses a different Resolution than my Desktop"
[09:57] <HedgeMage> yay for random guessing :P
[09:58] <waqas> i just hope i don'tmess up :)
[09:59] <HedgeMage> you'll be fine :)
[10:00] <cbx33> pygi: I sorted that problem
[10:00] <cbx33> but now the mount process is hanging
[10:00] <cbx33> I can't even kill -9 the process
[10:00] <cbx33> :S
[10:01] <pygi> cbx33, o joy :-/
[10:01] <cbx33> but
[10:01] <cbx33> Jun  7 10:13:50 server3 rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from debbox.stgeorgesec.st-george.southampton.sch.uk:843 for /home/pete/www (/home/pete/www)
[10:01] <cbx33> so it moutned ok apparently
[10:01] <pygi> nice, at least that :)
[10:01] <pygi> but we still need to fix hanging
[10:01] <cbx33> yes
[10:03] <pygi> any info you get at terminal at what it hangs?
[10:04] <cbx33> no
[10:04] <cbx33> gonna strace it now
[10:04] <pygi> ok
[10:04] <waqas> no, that page doesn't help xorg.conf is just the way it should be :(
[10:04] <cbx33> and I get nothing :p
[10:04] <cbx33> strace is showing nothing at all
[10:05] <pygi> cbx33, can  you try booting from /etc/fstab to see will it hang at boot too
[10:05] <pygi> altought ofcourse it should hang, but ...
[10:05] <pygi> *ergh, then you'll  have to use live cd to fix*
[10:05] <cbx33> yeh can't afford that now
[10:06] <pygi> so it mounts and hangs :-/
[10:06] <cbx33> hmmm
[10:06] <cbx33> may have found something
[10:06] <pygi> can you try reverting the stuff you did with NFS and try again?
[10:06] <pygi> hm, what?
[10:06] <HedgeMage> waqas: have you asked in #ubuntu ?
[10:07] <pygi> waqas, you could always change GDM built-in resolution in code if such things exist
[10:07] <waqas> HedgeMage: : lots of people asked lots of things there, no one seems to be listening :(
[10:07] <cbx33> nfs-common isnt installed
[10:07] <cbx33> :S
[10:07] <cbx33> that could cause a problem no?
[10:07] <waqas> pygi: if i only knew where :)
[10:07] <pygi> cbx33, o joy :)
[10:07] <cbx33> so I'll try that
[10:07] <HedgeMage> waqas: it's a bit slow this time of night... you may want to try about 8-10 hours from now if you'll be up, it should start to come alive again
[10:07] <pygi> apt-get source gdm
[10:08] <pygi> HedgeMage, it's like ... morning :)
[10:08] <HedgeMage> pygi: here it's the dead of night :P
[10:08] <waqas> afternoon :)
[10:08] <pygi> cbx33, I can write a tutorial on how to set up a NFS if you need ;)
[10:08] <cbx33> no
[10:08] <cbx33> I've done it before
[10:09] <cbx33> but it was the uid mapping
[10:09] <pygi> yea, but now we solved that ;)
[10:09] <waqas> i see suggestions to change the GDM on the ubuntu forums ... just need to figure out how ...
[10:09] <pygi> waqas, change the GDM? wth?
[10:10] <waqas> more like GDM theme :S
[10:10] <waqas> but i doubt that would work
[10:11] <cbx33> w00t
[10:11] <cbx33> it worked
[10:11] <cbx33> thanks for all your help pygi
[10:13] <pygi> cbx33, congrats and glad to be of help
[10:13] <cbx33> literally I just had to put that mapping bit at the top
[10:13] <cbx33> I thought ubuntu would have come with nfs-common installed
[10:13] <cbx33> the funny thing was it managed to authenticate without it
[10:13] <pygi> ergh, scroll up and see I told you to put it to the top :P
[10:13] <cbx33> that';s probably why it hung
[10:14] <cbx33> pygi: yes but you asked for me to provide an example
[10:14] <cbx33> I was just stating that it was as simple as you said
[10:15] <pygi> ok, ok :)
[10:15] <pygi> most important thing its solved now
[10:15] <cbx33> yes, thanks again for all the help
[10:15] <cbx33> when are we starting on scp?
[10:15] <cbx33> or what's the plan for scp
[10:15] <pygi> like next week will be meeting :P
[10:15] <cbx33> oooh nice
[10:15] <pygi> then we'll come up with decent pla
[10:15] <pygi> plan*
[10:15] <cbx33> ogra will be there too i presume?
[10:16] <cbx33> and a feature set?
[10:16] <pygi> most probably, yes, and feature set as well
[10:16] <pygi> edgy scope basicly
[10:16] <cbx33> right cool
[10:23] <pygi> cbx33, if you have any ideas for features, please feel free to mail me
[10:36] <zeen3221> .
[10:45] <cbx33> pygi: I put a few up on ogra's page
[10:46] <cbx33> but we mostly agreed that most of them would take far too long to implement
[10:46] <pygi> cbx33, agreed, but 24 hour work should produce some results
[10:46] <pygi> cbx33, what is his page once again?
[10:46] <cbx33> hang on
[10:47] <cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuEdgyIdeas
[10:49] <pygi> ah, yes, that :)
[10:49] <pygi> cbx33, what are you interested in working on S-C-P?
[10:49] <cbx33> anything i can actually help out on
[10:49] <cbx33> you know my python skills
[10:50] <cbx33> they are increasing everyday
[10:50] <cbx33> but I'm still a python n00b
[10:50] <cbx33> in a lot of ways
[10:53] <cbx33> you get me?
[10:54] <pygi> yup 
[10:54] <pygi> ogra, can't we get people who are willing to develop stuff like this (gnome edu apps)
[10:54] <pygi> review possibility to replace kdeedu with gnome apps or if thats not possible, create kdeedu specific langpacks to at least reduce the oversizedness a bit)
[10:59] <pygi> cbx33, ;)
[10:59] <cbx33> a small one of course
[10:59] <cbx33> what's 1+1
[10:59] <cbx33> 2
[10:59] <cbx33> correct :D
[11:00] <cbx33> you are a very clever person
[11:03] <pygi> cbx33, hehe :)
[11:03] <cbx33> I can see it now
[11:03] <cbx33> "And the aware for most sophisticated educational app goes to......."
[11:03] <cbx33> *award
[11:04] <shankr> AisleRiot
[11:04] <pygi> k, laters all
[11:04] <pygi> talk to you later cbx33, and good luck with award ;)
[11:04] <cbx33> ok pygi 
[11:05] <cbx33> (I think I have a good chance)
[11:05] <cbx33> :p
[11:54] <cbx33> ping ogra
[12:20] <EmxBA> why is here just ~30 of us
[12:20] <EmxBA> yesterday here were more than 100 users
[12:28] <RobinShepheard> EmxBA: They are probably busy with work or maybe in bed
[12:28] <RobinShepheard> I know that some of the others are 8 hours behind gmt
[12:28] <cbx33> not on #edubuntu
[12:29] <cbx33> we're always about 25-35
[12:29] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: Good point I dont think I have seen more
[12:31] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: Are you in the office, so to speak, at the mo
[12:31] <cbx33> RobinShepheard: yes
[12:31] <cbx33> I'm at work
[12:31] <cbx33> y?
[12:31] <RobinShepheard> So you allowed to do what you want there, obviously while it is not busy
[12:32] <cbx33> I'm always busy
[12:32] <RobinShepheard> did think that may be the case
[12:32] <cbx33> but my boss is cool with me working on edubuntu
[12:32] <RobinShepheard> just always wondered about school IT departments
[12:32] <RobinShepheard> sweet
[12:32] <jsgotangco> :/
[12:33] <cbx33> what's up jsgotangco 
[12:33] <jsgotangco> well...
[12:34] <cbx33> and?
[12:34] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: what did they say?
[12:34] <cbx33> not good news?
[12:34] <jsgotangco> "we can only recommend but cannot guarantee"
[12:34] <highvoltage> :/
[12:34] <RobinShepheard> still better than nothing I guess
[12:34] <jsgotangco> so I'll go back to the embassy on the 14th and just expect if i get one or not
[12:35] <cbx33> jsgotangco: what are you trying to get?
[12:35] <highvoltage> i'm going to the embassy on the 12th (hopefully) finding out on the 13th
[12:35] <jsgotangco> cbx33: a visa?
[12:35] <cbx33> ahhh
[12:35] <jsgotangco> well the 12th is a holiday here
[12:36] <jsgotangco> well i'll know on the 14th if its a deal or no deal :/
[12:36] <cbx33> jsgotangco: is this for paris?
[12:36] <jsgotangco> if they deny me, france gets the distincition of the first country to tarnish my perfect passport
[12:36] <jsgotangco> cbx33: yeah
[12:37] <cbx33> jsgotangco: where are you from again?
[12:37] <jsgotangco> cbx33: Manila, Philippines
[12:37] <cbx33> would I have to get a visa?
[12:37] <cbx33> if I were going?
[12:38] <jsgotangco> i doubt
[12:38] <cbx33> bearing in mind I'd have to get my passport updated
[12:38] <cbx33> why do you?
[12:38] <Yagisan> cbx33: he's not from the EU
[12:38] <jsgotangco> yep
[12:38] <cbx33> ah i see
[12:38] <cbx33> If I were travelling to the States, would I need one?
[12:38] <jsgotangco> i've had visa entries to the US, AU, Japan, korea, china, singapore but france gets to spoil the party heh
[12:39] <Yagisan> cbx33: a local example. I can go to New Zealand without a visa, but my wife can't
[12:39] <jsgotangco> cbx33: i doubt that
[12:40] <highvoltage> i can go to all commonwealth countries without a visa, such as UK, Australia, India, etc.
[12:40] <jsgotangco> i can go to some places too
[12:40] <jsgotangco> ironically i can go to south africa and cameroon without a visa
[12:40] <jsgotangco> not to mention a bunch of south east asian nations
[12:41] <jsgotangco> im just getting pissed at all these hassles for a 7 day trip
[12:42] <cbx33> yeh
[12:42] <jsgotangco> not to mention i have to take time off at work
[12:42] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: it's france, what do you expect :-P
[12:42] <highvoltage> *sigh*
[12:42] <jsgotangco> i'd say a joke about france but it's sick don't bother
[12:42] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:44] <jsgotangco> would it be tax free?
[12:45] <cbx33> heheh
[12:46] <cbx33> how do you know if you can travel to a country or not
[12:46] <Yagisan> cbx33: you check their embassy website
[12:46] <cbx33> ah
[12:46] <jsgotangco> cbx33: you're british, any country will accept you
[12:46] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: so which g8 country did you have in mind ?
[12:47] <jsgotangco> good question
[12:47] <jsgotangco> france?
[12:47] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:54] <cbx33> hey pygi_ 
[12:54] <pygi_> hey cbx33 
[12:54] <jsgotangco> cbx33: you'll probably just need a visa waiver most likely
[01:03] <cbx33> i suppose I should really get my passport
[01:08] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: When you do get it, pay the 3 or 4 quid to the post office for the checking service, you will get it back a lot quicker
[01:09] <cbx33> yeh?
[01:09] <cbx33> cool
[01:10] <RobinShepheard> yeah, and you wont wait a fortnight and get it sent back to you if there is a mistake, they tell you about it and you can go and get it fixed same day
[01:10] <cbx33> how long does it take
[01:11] <RobinShepheard> well I got mine back in a week, but the do still say allow 3 weeks
[01:11] <cbx33> wow
[01:11] <RobinShepheard> mate who did it by post took 2.5 weeks
[01:20] <mhz> hi guys
[01:20] <mhz> got Meeting today?
[01:20] <pygi> hey hey mhz 
[01:20] <cbx33> yes
[01:20] <pygi> yup
[01:20] <cbx33> 20:00 utc
[01:21] <mhz> 12 utc?
[01:21] <mhz> 20 utc?
[01:21] <pygi> 20 utc
[01:21] <jsgotangco> fruck...i just remembered
[01:21] <jsgotangco> 20UTC is 4AM
[01:21] <jsgotangco> yay
[01:21] <cbx33> eeek
[01:23] <mhz> Has any of you had this issue with edubuntu clients?: I log in from clients and I get US keyboard layout instead of already set ES layout at server side. I installed xubuntu-desktop package on top of default edubuntu one and even after setting GNOME as default, clients still get xubuntu.
[01:23] <mhz> jsgotangco: sorry i brought it up to you
[01:23] <jsgotangco> not at all
[01:24] <ogra> jsgotangco, if we're more than 3 EC members we have quorum, no need for the alarm clock 
[01:24] <mhz> jsgotangco: I now have about 978 emails in inbox. Could you spare me the filtering, please, and tell confirm me if you're gonna use the Edubuntu via Netboot wiki page in newsletter?
[01:24] <jsgotangco> mhz: yes
[01:24] <mhz> lol
[01:24] <mhz> yes what?
[01:24] <ogra> mhz, how did you set the keyboard layout ?
[01:24] <jsgotangco> yes i've added it for the ubuntu newsletter for this week
[01:26] <mhz> ogra: 1st) when fresh installing, I used spanish for everything and even downloaded langpack. 2nd) When I created each client-user for test purposes, I  personally loged in at the server side, using each client-user name and set GNOME as default and spanish as lang.
[01:26] <jsgotangco> well i'll try to wake up just in case
[01:26] <ogra> mhz, and did you also follow https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPClientKeymap ? :)
[01:26] <mhz> jsgotangco: thx, so no need to wiki an article today ;)
[01:28] <mhz> ogra: hmmmmm, nope, because when I loged in at the server (from server machine) I got everything working for each client-user, so I thought it was all ok until yesterday night, the day people were invited to test it :D (yeah, I am stupid)
[01:28] <mhz> and if I had had the time to look up in the wiki, I would have looked up "Edubuntu..."pages ;)
[01:29] <ogra> mhz, for the desktop session, sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager might be handy :)
[01:29] <mhz> so, if you say that page is good, I'll create a link to it from an EdubuntuLTSPClientKeymap ?
[01:29] <ogra> ??
[01:29] <jsgotangco> mmm nice pics of mako's wedding
[01:30] <mhz> I mean, I have always encouraged newcomers to lookup wiki pages starting by EdubuntuBlaBLa
[01:30] <RobinShepheard> just a quick one, I have a straight install from the disk with now changes made. I have just tried to find the said path and I find I have no ltps subdir in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc
[01:31] <mhz> because of the LTSP v/s Edubuntu kind of 'confusion' (many only installing normal default LTSP instead of xubuntu or edubuntu ltsp installs
[01:31] <ogra> mhz, well, we just made some effort to put everyything in one place under UbuntuLTSP
[01:31] <mhz> oh, I apologize then, I had no idea
[01:31] <ogra> since its not edubuntu specific documentation
[01:31] <mhz> indeed
[01:31] <cbx33> we're trying mhz :p
[01:31] <RobinShepheard> do I need to create the file or is it a modification to it??
[01:34] <mhz> RobinShepheard: weired
[01:34] <mhz> RobinShepheard: edubuntu <enter> (or default install) should provide that for you
[01:34] <mhz> and you should only need to provide the network specs
[01:35] <RobinShepheard> I did the default install
[01:35] <mhz> RobinShepheard: however, if that did happen as you mention, then it is weired.
[01:35] <ogra> its not needed for a running ltsp setup, you need to create it if you want to tweak the defaults
[01:36] <RobinShepheard> I editted the dhcp config file but I do not have the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp dir, the dirs go from lsb-release to magic
[01:36] <RobinShepheard> so it is not created by default
[01:37] <ogra> why would you want to edit a dhcp server config in the client environment ? 
[01:37] <mhz> ogra: oh, I am not a good example then because I usually interact with IRC people in my thin edubuntu-laptop-server which is installed via netboot and then manually installing edubuntu stuff ;(
[01:37] <ogra> look in /etc/ltsp on the server not in the client root
[01:37] <mhz> so I usually dont get the 'defaults'
[01:37] <RobinShepheard> no this is on the server
[01:38] <mhz> RobinShepheard: /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
[01:38] <ogra> for tweaks of the client functionallity you can edit/create /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf ... all other settings are server side
[01:39] <RobinShepheard> mhz: I have that and have /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf, it was whether the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp should have been created by default
[01:39] <ogra> nope
[01:40] <RobinShepheard> ahhh that explains why I cant find it then
[01:40] <ogra> /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is a file to configure the dhcp server, so nothing that should live in the clients chroot
[01:41] <RobinShepheard> ogra: all editing of the files is on the server
[01:41] <ogra> what made you think you could find it in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp ?
[01:42] <RobinShepheard> ogra: I am looking for the ltsp.conf file listed on the getting started page which says about setting things like the keyboard type
[01:42] <ogra> sure all editing happens on the server, but /opt/ltsp/i386 is what the client sees as /
[01:42] <ogra> as i said that file isnt there, you need to create it
[01:43] <ogra> its only used if you need to tweak the defaults
[01:43] <RobinShepheard> ok I understand, it just isn't clear from the documentation whether you created it or whether you should just be editing an existing file
[01:44] <cbx33> ogra: think that a jabber server or something similar by default is possible for edgy?
[01:44] <RobinShepheard> ogra: page says "This file is available at /opt/ltsp/(ARCH)/etc/lts.conf. Replace (ARCH) with your architecture, for example, if you installed the i386 version, you'll find this file at /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf." I took this to mean it should already be there
[01:44] <ogra> cbx33, no idea, depends on the spec ;)
[01:45] <ogra> RobinShepheard, ouch ...
[01:45] <ogra> highvoltage, ? ^^^^
[01:45] <ogra> can you change that ?
[01:45] <RobinShepheard> sorry, I just got a bit confused that was all
[01:45] <ogra> RobinShepheard, good catch, thanks a lot :)
[01:46] <RobinShepheard> sorry for getting you to repeat youself earlier
[01:46] <ogra> dont worry :)
[01:46] <cbx33> is this something that needs changing on the edubuntu site?
[01:46] <ogra> yes
[01:47] <cbx33> gimme details I can do it
[01:47] <ogra> in the gettingstarted doc
[01:47] <cbx33> ok
[01:47] <RobinShepheard> http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
[01:47] <RobinShepheard> it is under "Fine-tuning the thin client setup"
[01:47] <ogra> cbx33, the file isnt there, if you want to tweak default settings of all or one client you need to create it first
[01:48] <cbx33> ah ok
[01:48] <cbx33> I'll adjust
[01:48] <RobinShepheard> I am just going to grab a sandwich for lunch, I will be back in 5 mins or so
[01:48] <ogra> (we simply dont create an empty file to avoid additional IO operations during boot)
[01:49] <cbx33> ah ok
[01:49] <cbx33> I'll reword
[01:49] <ogra> if the file would be there, the bootscripts would parse it even if its empty ... if it doesnt exist, getltscfg (the parser) isnt even loaded into memory
[01:51] <cbx33> ogra: edited
[01:51] <cbx33> what d'ya think?
[01:52] <ogra> for example, if you installed the i386 version, you'll need to create this file /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf 
[01:52] <ogra> for example, if you installed the i386 version, you'll need to create this file *as* (?) /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf 
[01:53] <ogra> or: under the name
[01:53] <cbx33> ok
[01:53] <cbx33> done
[01:55] <jsgotangco> ahh nice dinner
[01:57] <cbx33> there's something wrong with the system monitor
[01:57] <cbx33> it's showing 40% usage
[01:57] <cbx33> but the process isn't showing up in top, or system monitor
[01:57] <ogra> hmm, somehow the menu is broken for me now
[01:57] <cbx33> which menu?
[01:57] <ogra> css of gettingstarted
[01:58] <cbx33> looks fine here
[01:58] <cbx33> try a forced refresh
[01:58] <cbx33> we've had this issue on the ubuntu site too
[01:58] <cbx33> even though one uses moin and the other uses drupal
[01:58] <cbx33> I was talking to heno about it yesterday
[01:59] <highvoltage> ogra: yes, i can change that. i will fix it with other updates
[01:59] <cbx33> fixed?
[01:59] <cbx33> highvoltage: what's the issue?
[01:59] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/shot.png
[02:00] <cbx33> hh i see
[02:00] <cbx33> can't we whack a minimum on the content div?
[02:00] <flint> JaneW, you around?
[02:00] <highvoltage> hi flint
[02:01] <cbx33> hey flint 
[02:01] <highvoltage> flint: how's colin doing? he's been real quiet.
[02:01] <flint> hey gents!
[02:01] <JaneW> hello - I am kind of here
[02:01] <JaneW> very sick though :(
[02:01] <cbx33> awww
[02:01] <cbx33> how so?
[02:02] <flint> highvoltage, well Jonathan, I am trying to keep track of Colin, I will get back to you with a report
[02:02] <highvoltage> flint: ok :)
[02:02] <flint> highvoltage, when is the edubuntu meeting?
[02:02] <cbx33> 20:00 utc
[02:02] <flint> never can get time zones right...
[02:02] <highvoltage> JaneW: oh man, hope you're better soon. are you coming by again before you move on?
[02:02] <highvoltage> flint: 20:00 UTC
[02:03] <flint> it is now 01:03 UTC eh?
[02:03] <cbx33> 12:00 utc now
[02:03] <highvoltage> yep
[02:03] <highvoltage> (yep@cbx33)
[02:03] <flint> gotcha...  I really prefer a specific time for the edubuntu meeting.
[02:04] <cbx33> flint: why not pop into #ubuntu-meeting
[02:04] <ogra> we only have two alternating times to cover all timezones
[02:04] <cbx33> and use the schedule thingy
[02:04] <flint> JaneW, I am really sorry you are not feeling well.   I like you when you are fiesty!
[02:04] <ogra> JaneW, do you have some holiday before starting the new job at least ? 
[02:04] <flint> The schedule thingy needs a clock to tell you the current time...
[02:05] <cbx33> @schedule london
[02:05] <cbx33>  @schedule london
[02:05] <highvoltage> do it in -meeting
[02:05] <cbx33> yeh
[02:05] <ogra> flint, date -u tells you the current utc time :)
[02:05] <flint> cbx33, I am on #ubuntu-meeting now...
[02:06] <flint> ogra, olli that is most useful.  wonder what it would take to get this displayed on the front of the fridge?
[02:06] <ogra> thats a question for jdub :)
[02:06] <cbx33> I'm still waiting for my blog to be added to planet :p
[02:06] <flint> ogra, gotcha... just another random thought. 
[02:07] <jsgotangco> flint: tzwatch
[02:07] <flint> back in DC last week, kinda like visiting Dante's inferno... but more facist...
[02:07] <flint> jsgotangco, gotit just forget to load utc as a time...
[02:08] <flint> try to get away with london time mostly... :^)
[02:08] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:09] <JaneW> highvoltage: I was hoping to come in this week, but I seem to have the plague suddenly :(
[02:09] <JaneW> ogra: no sadly no break in between
[02:09] <flint> highvoltage, @schedule est Jonathan, you are a genius... 
[02:09] <ogra> JaneW, gah, that sucks+
[02:10] <flint> i understand that mdz in in london lately.
[02:10] <ogra> starting a new job and being ill that is
[02:10] <JaneW> cbx33: nag jdub, he sometimes takes a prod or 2 to respond
[02:10] <ogra> flint, he's back since two days
[02:10] <JaneW> flint: mdz is home now
[02:10] <cbx33> and neither am I :p
[02:10] <cbx33> JaneW: I'll leave it a little longer its not that important
[02:10] <cbx33> hmmm I sent those two messages the other way round
[02:11] <flint> ogra, good I will hassle him.  DC sucked me in last week.
[02:12] <flint> not immediately however, mdz needs his beauty sleep (trust me :^)
[02:12] <ogra> JaneW, will you be at the meeting if you are sick ? (since its you last meeting as i just realized)
[02:12] <flint> This NECC thing is a big event in the US and has been good for edubuntu.  you all following it?
[02:13] <cbx33> flint: yup
[02:13] <cbx33> hoping they will jump on doing BETT2007
[02:13] <cbx33> in london
[02:14] <flint> cbx33, the trick is that it is on the other coast, and I just do not have the time/money to support it.
[02:14] <RobinShepheard> what is bett2007??
[02:15] <cbx33> RobinShepheard: 
[02:15] <cbx33> hang on
[02:15] <flint> RobinShepheard, British Educational Technology...
[02:15] <cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BETTShow2007
[02:15] <RobinShepheard> cheers
[02:15] <cbx33> I'm trying to persuade
[02:17] <flint> cbx33, good idea setting up a BETT wiki.  I may try to emulate you in this for NECC...
[02:17] <cbx33> np
[02:17] <cbx33> lucky that NECC is going ahead though
[02:17] <flint> cbx33, thanks...
[02:17] <cbx33> I'm hoping canonical are going to give it the thumbs up
[02:17] <cbx33> but funding is going to be an issue
[02:18] <jsgotangco> if not no reason why not having a community behind it
[02:18] <jsgotangco> :P
[02:18] <cbx33> it is rather expensive
[02:18] <jsgotangco> ahh
[02:18] <flint> cbx33, Tom and Steve are pushing this very hard.  I may try to do something today... Funding is THE issue.
[02:18] <cbx33> we're wondering if we could get some thrid party vendors of hardware to help out
[02:18] <cbx33> by saying if ubuntu runs on here OOTB
[02:18] <flint> cbx33, all we can do is one foot in front of another.
[02:18] <cbx33> indeed
[02:19] <cbx33> BETT2007 application date is closing fast
[02:19] <cbx33> I only have another few months
[02:19] <RobinShepheard> I would be willing to devote sometime to lend a hand on the stand if need be and could probably be persuaded to donate 50 quid if needs be
[02:19] <cbx33> RobinShepheard: that'd be fantastic
[02:19] <cbx33> jsgotangco: come over to london
[02:19] <flint> cbx33, NECC grants a lot to the Edubuntu mafia, including booth space, actually something they call the open source garden...
[02:19] <jsgotangco> cbx33: yeah right, i couldn't even get a french visa easily :P
[02:20] <jsgotangco> schengen rather
[02:20] <flint> jsgotangco, where are you from my man?
[02:20] <jsgotangco> flint: from your former colony lol
[02:21] <flint> I can see the french not giving Ollie a visa, but he does smoke cigarretts so he is probably ok by them...
[02:21] <RobinShepheard> that narrows it down to most of the world if flint is english
[02:21] <flint> jsgotangco, sadly the Empire has had many colonies over the years...
[02:21] <ogra> you dont need a visa in europe as european, you dont even need a passport to travel
[02:22] <cbx33> ogra: I thought that
[02:22] <flint> ogra, thought I could get a rise out of you!  
[02:22] <cbx33> but I was told by someone else otherwise
[02:22] <cbx33> does that mean I could travel to paris without a passport?
[02:22] <cbx33> anyway, the more people I can get involved in BETT2007 the better
[02:22] <flint> ogra, hell Ollie, you dont even change money any more?  life is good in europe.
[02:23] <RobinShepheard> if you are from uk you can in theory travel on a photocard drivers license to another eu country but it is grief of the largest kind, easier to get a passport
[02:23] <cbx33> if canonical can see people are going to be avilable to man it, they will be more likely to back it
[02:23] <ogra> does the uk count as europe ?
[02:23] <RobinShepheard> yeah it does ogra
[02:23] <flint> ogra, absolutely not.  God save the Queen!
[02:23] <RobinShepheard> it is a member of the european union
[02:23] <cbx33> moodle made it there last year, and had a fantastic time....sooo many people interested in open source
[02:23] <ogra> well, being there never gives me the impression :)
[02:24] <jsgotangco> it is to proud to use the 
[02:24] <jsgotangco> :)
[02:24] <RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: damn right we are :)
[02:24] <JaneW> ogra: I am going to really try to be at the meeting
[02:24] <ogra> jsgotangco, haha
[02:24] <cbx33> but there was ZERO linux presence
[02:24] <cbx33> which is why I feel so strongly that edubuntu should be there
[02:24] <RobinShepheard> the pound is far superior than that new fangled currency they use on the mainland :)
[02:25] <ogra> JaneW, well, if you cant, dont do it... only if you feal healthy enough
[02:25] <jsgotangco> cbx33: that would be interesting indeed backed up by a strong community
[02:25] <ogra> *feel 
[02:25] <cbx33> yeh
[02:25] <jsgotangco> lol
[02:25] <flint> RobinShepheard, BTW I am from the US Empire.  I am currently in hiding in the Republic of Vermont.
[02:25] <RobinShepheard> ahh, well you will get over it :)
[02:26] <ogra> in germany a pound is still half a kilo :)
[02:26] <flint> RobinShepheard, god help us we have over two years to go.
[02:26] <RobinShepheard> ???? two years to go ?????
[02:26] <RobinShepheard> ahh bush
[02:27] <flint> RobinShepheard, do not get me started, this channel is likely monitored.  I am serious.
[02:27] <RobinShepheard> ogra: still is here if you ask the average british
[02:27] <RobinShepheard> ok no worries, I know where you are coming from
[02:27] <cbx33> flint: is everyone as cautious as you?
[02:27] <RobinShepheard> another time and place for that conversation I guess
[02:28] <cbx33> flint: come to BETT2007 ;P we can chat there hehehehe
[02:28] <ogra> heh, yes :)
[02:28] <flint> cbx33, you have never lived in a facist state.  trust me. ok campers, I need to go.  
[02:28] <flint> thanks.
[02:28] <cbx33> take care flint 
[02:28] <ogra> flint, will you be at the meeting ? 
[02:28] <RobinShepheard> cya later flint
[02:29] <highvoltage> see ya flint 
[02:29] <ogra> flint, its JaneW's farewell meeting (in case she survives until tonight)
[02:29] <flint> ogra, eight tonight I will try
[02:29] <highvoltage> flint: you don't happen to listen to System Of A Down, do you? what you said about the fascist state reminds me of some of their lyrics
[02:29] <highvoltage> oh. gone. :(
[02:29] <RobinShepheard> system ROCK
[02:30] <highvoltage> yep.
[02:30] <cbx33> hehe
[02:30] <cbx33> RATM anyone?
[02:30] <jsgotangco> sure
[02:30] <RobinShepheard> no there is a name I haven't heard in a long time
[02:30] <RobinShepheard> what happened to them cbx33
[02:30] <jsgotangco> i guess no one digs british metal
[02:31] <RobinShepheard> hey don't knoch Iron Maiden and the like
[02:31] <cbx33> true
[02:31] <cbx33> Metallica
[02:31] <RobinShepheard> doh knock
[02:31] <cbx33> heard Saliva?
[02:32] <RobinShepheard> nah, don't recognise the name
[02:32] <RobinShepheard> Judas Priest, another blast from my past
[02:32] <cbx33> seen fast and the furious
[02:32] <cbx33> two tracks in ther ei think
[02:32] <cbx33> click click boom
[02:32] <cbx33> and superstar
[02:33] <RobinShepheard> how do you get the asterisk for the actions??
[02:33] <cbx33> type /me
[02:33] <cbx33> before it
[02:33] <cbx33>  /me eats pies
[02:33] <RobinShepheard> ahh, I got you, like I have said in the past I am new to this IRC stuff
[02:34] <cbx33> heh
[02:35] <cbx33> heheh
[02:35] <ogra> cbx33, thanks !
[02:35] <cbx33> ogra: I collected all the bits and made a pie just for you :p
[02:36] <RobinShepheard> just to wash down the pie of course
[02:36] <ogra> lol
[02:36] <jsgotangco> ogra: is hwdb going to make a comeback in edgy?
[02:36] <ogra> looks like
[02:36] <jsgotangco> i was thinking of some stuff
[02:36] <RobinShepheard> will it be a proper database backend??
[02:36] <ogra> mdz seems fond of it .. and there is a kde frok going on
[02:36] <jsgotangco> then made some glade mockup
[02:36] <cbx33> hwdb?
[02:37] <ogra> a frok woth a fork indeed :)
[02:37] <ogra> agrh
[02:37] <ogra> *with
[02:37] <jsgotangco> cbx33: hardware database
[02:37] <cbx33> ogra: you're typing is getting worse...
[02:37] <ogra> yes
[02:37] <cbx33> jsgotangco: as i suspetced
[02:37] <jsgotangco> cbx33: collects info on your system then uploads it to ogra's server
[02:37] <RobinShepheard> must be the beers :~)
[02:37] <cbx33> it's is it differnt to the device database?
[02:37] <ogra> time to get some programming done and stay away a bit from IRC (read time for edgy to open)
[02:38] <cbx33> see ya later ogra 
[02:38] <cbx33> I got some PHP to code
[02:38] <ogra> heh
[02:38] <jsgotangco> cbx33: its currently integrated into the deveice db
[02:38] <cbx33> ah kk
[02:38] <ogra> i'm waiting for edgy ...
[02:38] <jsgotangco> device manager even
[02:38] <cbx33> it's gonna be aseperate entity again?
[02:38] <ogra> yes
[02:38] <RobinShepheard> as I understand it, it is lacking in a database backend isn't it
[02:38] <RobinShepheard> hwdb that is
[02:38] <ogra> but the code needs splitting in front and backend
[02:39] <ogra> that too
[02:39] <ogra> there is no sql database in place 
[02:39] <ogra> but actually the frontend needs a lot fixage too
[02:39] <jsgotangco> i was thinking of having people link it to their LP profiles if they wanted to
[02:40] <ogra> the code is crap, its not translateable and it lacks the split in front and backend
[02:40] <jsgotangco> well
[02:40] <ogra> additionally the tests need some reworking
[02:40] <jsgotangco> ogra: i've branched from your bzr-archive i assume that's updated?
[02:41] <ogra> cbx33, its a very bad coded app ... i know it, i wrote it
[02:41] <ogra> its code that makes me actually blush if outhers look at it
[02:41] <RobinShepheard> guess you can't really argue with that
[02:41] <cbx33> how does it post the data?
[02:41] <ogra> jsgotangco, its missing the last change, i'll merge that, its also not switched to knits yet iirfc
[02:42] <jsgotangco> flat file
[02:42] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[02:42] <cbx33> http?
[02:42] <ogra> cbx33, on my webserver there is a directory with 266747 bziped flatfiles in it ...
[02:42] <jsgotangco> i mostly see mvo's merge heh
[02:43] <cbx33> but how does it post it to you?
[02:43] <ogra> yes, the server has an http upload cgi script the client attaches to
[02:43] <cbx33> just cos it doesn;t work here
[02:43] <cbx33> probably q proxy issue
[02:43] <cbx33> if you could add global proxy support that'd be ace :p
[02:44] <RobinShepheard> daft question but if it is posting via http, could you not post to a cgi script to insert it into a database??
[02:44] <ogra> thats a bug inn the client, it doesnt use proxies
[02:44] <RobinShepheard> send as variables rather than a flatfile
[02:44] <cbx33> yeh thought so
[02:44] <ogra> cbx33, there is a global projxy setup thats simply not respected :)
[02:44] <RobinShepheard> like a submission from a webpage
[02:45] <cbx33> ogra: as i suspected
[02:45] <ogra> RobinShepheard, thats exactly what it does ... just that nobody wrote the DB and the backend for that script yet :)
[02:45] <cbx33> heheh
[02:46] <cbx33> it's a big file isnt it
[02:46] <ogra> the directory ?
[02:46] <ogra> ~5GB
[02:46] <cbx33> no the file
[02:46] <cbx33> yes I'd imagine that'd be quite big
[02:53] <RobinShepheard> dunno what happened there
[03:02] <RobinShepheard> is there an option in ltsp.conf to just set the screen resolution
[03:03] <RobinShepheard> am I still connected, internet is doing funny things
[03:03] <RobinShepheard> I am getting 30s lag
[03:03] <bimberi> RobinShepheard: i'm seeing you :)
[03:04] <RobinShepheard> cheers bimberi, just wanted to check as I had seen no traffic and lag was upto 60s just a min ago
[03:04] <cbx33> sorry RobinShepheard I'm seeing you
[03:05] <RobinShepheard> It is okay, just a bit worrying 60s lag on a 2 meg leased line
[03:10] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: ouch I just looked at the pricing for the BETT show
[03:10] <RobinShepheard> 354+vat per square metre
[03:10] <cbx33> indeed
[03:10] <cbx33> as i said very *NOT* cheap
[03:10] <cbx33> hence needing financial backing in a big way
[03:11] <cbx33> but I think it would be so good for us
[03:12] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: you have my full agreement, just it makes my 50 look fairly pathetic
[03:12] <cbx33> heheh
[03:12] <cbx33> well it's the time I would value more
[03:13] <cbx33> we need to show that we have people who are willing to man the stands
[03:13] <RobinShepheard> I can always take a few days holiday to help. Accomodation is the only real problem
[03:14] <cbx33> yeh
[03:14] <RobinShepheard> but that can always be arranged some how, even if I have to call in a few favours
[03:15] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: I can always bring a laptop with edubuntu installed as well
[03:16] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: I may try putting the idea to the dorset lug tonight, see if we can do a whip round for some cash
[03:21] <cbx33> RobinShepheard: well
[03:22] <cbx33> ask if they'd be willing
[03:22] <cbx33> we need the ok from canonical before we can do anything like that
[03:22] <cbx33> but please spread the word
[03:22] <cbx33> see if we can get more people interested
[03:24] <EmxBA> hi folks
[03:24] <EmxBA> it's me again
[03:24] <EmxBA> :D
[03:38] <jsgotangco> ahh goodie wasabi potato chips from my wife
[03:38] <jsgotangco> yessss
[03:39] <EmxBA> lol
[03:40] <highvoltage> wasabi. *shivers*
[03:43] <cbx33> highvoltage: howz the website going?
[03:44] <cbx33> 27 degrees celcius in our office today
[03:46] <EmxBA> highvoltage, what's up :D
[03:47] <mhz> http://sifinfo.org/ <-- very interesting, indeed
[03:48] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: wasabi snorting take that
[03:53] <highvoltage> heh
[03:53] <highvoltage> ah, EmxBA is gone again
[03:54] <highvoltage> cbx33: i've applied everyones suggestions to the xubuntu drupal site (should be up tomorrow), and i'll reapply some of the cool things from that to eudbuntu
[03:54] <cbx33> cool
[03:54] <cbx33> need any help?
[03:55] <highvoltage> yes, let's talk about that tonight
[03:55] <cbx33> ok cool
[03:55] <cbx33> in da meeting?
[03:57] <highvoltage> before the meeting, if you can
[03:57] <cbx33> yeh sure
[03:57] <cbx33> I'm all geared up to work tonight
[03:57] <cbx33> have told AliasVegas and she has loads of work to do too
[03:57] <cbx33> so it works out ell for us
[04:02] <highvoltage> ok, bye!
[04:25] <cbx33> see ya all a bit later
[04:35] <bddebian> Hello
[06:23] <pygi> hello highvoltage 
[06:25] <highvoltage> hey pygi 
[06:27] <highvoltage> howzit?
[06:30] <lucasvo> hi 
[06:31] <highvoltage> hi lucasvo 
[06:59] <highvoltage> ogra: /win 11
[06:59] <lucasvo> cool
[07:00] <highvoltage> sorry ogra, got distracted :)
[07:00] <lucasvo> I shared about 1000% of edubutu torrents
[07:00] <lucasvo> :P
[07:00] <ogra> highvoltage, there was also nothing intresing in win 11 for me
[07:00] <lucasvo> silly guy on the ML telling someone to install vmware on a lame machine to speed it
[07:01] <bddebian> hehe
[07:01] <lucasvo> ogra: you two have same irc settup?
[07:01] <highvoltage> ogra: what i was going to ask you previously, how to you feel about the 'show commercial applications' button in gnome-app install?
[07:01] <ogra> lucasvo, unlikely :)
[07:02] <Burgwork> highvoltage, it sucks and is misleading
[07:02] <ogra> bug 44925 you mean ? 
[07:02] <highvoltage> Burgwork: i'm starting a campaign against it, please add your comment here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-app-install/+bug/44925
[07:03] <highvoltage> ogra: yes, 44925.
[07:03] <ogra> :)
[07:06] <LaserJock> ack, I'm going to have to think about that
[07:07] <LaserJock> I'm not very well versed in FSF propaganda ;-)
[07:07] <lucasvo> I think third-pryt is the most appopriate
[07:07] <lucasvo> even though not everything is thir party
[07:08] <lucasvo> maybe a simple "more info" button would solve the problem
[07:08] <LaserJock> what does the button do? open up Restricted and Multiverse?
[07:08] <highvoltage> lucasvo: "third party" would be several more factors acurate than what it currently says. do you mind mentioning that in a coment on that bug entry?
[07:09] <lucasvo> highvoltage: ok
[07:09] <highvoltage> LaserJock: i think so, yes. it seems that it's all non-free software
[07:09] <LaserJock> "third party" that generally means not in one of the offical Ubuntu repos doesn't it?
[07:10] <LaserJock> and "proprietary" doesn't work?
[07:10] <highvoltage> proprietary would be the most correct term
[07:10] <LaserJock> I think "third party" should be avoided
[07:10] <highvoltage> but someone told mvo that he shouldn't put that there (mvo didn't tell me who told him that)
[07:11] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:11] <lucasvo> proprietary is a quite strong word
[07:11] <highvoltage> i also think it should ideally say 'proprietary', with a 'more info' button.
[07:11] <lucasvo> but correct
[07:11] <lucasvo> no, actually it's not
[07:11] <highvoltage> this way, users can understand why proprietary software is available for ubuntu
[07:11] <lucasvo> libcss is not proprietary
[07:11] <highvoltage> it has patent issues.
[07:12] <lucasvo> != proprietary
[07:12] <ubotu> I don't know, try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, lucasvo
[07:12] <lucasvo> ubotu: shut up
[07:12] <ubotu> Do they come in packets of five. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, lucasvo
[07:12] <highvoltage> heh
[07:12] <lucasvo> *lol*
[07:12] <highvoltage> wither way, those words should change, imo.
[07:12] <lucasvo> at least this bot has not some faked inteligence
[07:12] <LaserJock> lucasvo: libcss is open source?
[07:13] <RobinShepheard> daft question but what is the official definition of open source??
[07:13] <LaserJock> RobinShepheard: I'd go look at www.gnu.org
[07:13] <lucasvo> LaserJock: afaik yes
[07:13] <highvoltage> LaserJock: no, that's free software :)
[07:14] <lucasvo> http://www.stearns.org/libcss/ License: GPL
[07:14] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:14] <highvoltage> the open source definition is at: http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php
[07:14] <RobinShepheard> does it have to conform to gpl or what about bsd
[07:14] <LaserJock> highvoltage: ah, cool
[07:14] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: cheers
[07:15] <highvoltage> RobinShepheard: see the link i just posted, it explains the conditions for software to be open source, that site also lists licenses that are certified as open source licenses
[07:16] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: I am just reading it now
[07:16] <lucasvo> highvoltage: btw, in CH it's 100% legally to use libcss
[07:17] <lucasvo> ogra: how big is the chance to add a vocabular trainer to edubuntu which is webbased and is in need of an apache?
[07:17] <RobinShepheard> afaik it is in england as well
[07:17] <LaserJock> ok, so then what's the difference between Free software (www.gnu.org) and Open Source software (www.opensource.org)
[07:17] <lucasvo> only the stupid americans have that law
[07:17] <RobinShepheard> mit license isn't recognised by fsf is it
[07:18] <LaserJock> I would think so
[07:18] <highvoltage> lucasvo: in .za too
[07:18] <highvoltage> LaserJock: Richard Stallman started with what's called Free software a few decades ago (that you probably know)
[07:19] <highvoltage> the term "free software" is a Free Software Foundation term.
[07:19] <highvoltage> in 1998, Bruce Perens said that the term 'free software' is confusing for users, so he coined the term open source.
[07:20] <lucasvo> I knew highvoltage was the one who picks up this question :)
[07:20] <highvoltage> Richard Stallman doesn't like the term open source, and the FSF and OSI doesn't work together.
[07:20] <highvoltage> RMS insists that you call it Free software, not open source software
[07:20] <RobinShepheard> I did not realise but yast uses a non free license
[07:21] <LaserJock> ok, but they are basically equivalent?
[07:21] <highvoltage> although, all the FSF licenses are OSI approved (GPL / LPGL / etc)
[07:21] <LaserJock> RobinShepheard: I thought they relicensed it, but I could be wrong
[07:22] <highvoltage> yast did have a non-free license. novell has recently made it open source, although apparently the tools used to create yast is still non-free (from my understandings of previous articles)
[07:22] <RobinShepheard> LaserJock: I am only going by FSF web site, I cant say that I know or that I am really that bothered
[07:22] <highvoltage> yes, they are equivilent, but they have different goals.
[07:22] <highvoltage> OSI's goals is to make what's called open source software more 'corporate friendly'
[07:23] <RobinShepheard> I cant claim to be really that inpressed with suse, I find it a bit slow and clunky, which is the reason I tried ubuntu
[07:23] <LaserJock> personally I have trouble with "free software" because I think of "$0 software"
[07:23] <highvoltage> while the FSF's goals is, among other things, to creat the GNU operating system, and to get involved in politics to fix legislation.
[07:23] <RobinShepheard> I prefer that term open source
[07:23] <highvoltage> i support both initiatives.
[07:24] <crimsun> from http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/philosophy : "Ubuntu is happy to call itself open source." :-)
[07:24] <highvoltage> sabdfl used to only say "Open Source"
[07:24] <highvoltage> you'll see him use the term 'free software' more and more these days.
[07:24] <LaserJock> did RMS kick his butt? ;-)
[07:25] <highvoltage> i doubt it.
[07:25] <RobinShepheard> I approve of the free as in speach but it is hard to convince people that it is quality because everyone hears the word free, where as people don't seem to think the same about open source in my experience
[07:25] <LaserJock> me too
[07:26] <highvoltage> well, RMS once said, there's 8 definitions for free in the dictionairy, only one of them implies $0, the rest of them freedom.
[07:26] <crimsun> I suppose that coming from a family of educators the word "free" has always implied commitment and high quality.
[07:26] <highvoltage> so i think he's entitled to call it free software.
[07:26] <LaserJock> yes, but how often is the one usage applied towards a product?
[07:26] <highvoltage> fat free!
[07:26] <RobinShepheard> sugar free
[07:26] <LaserJock> sure
[07:26] <RobinShepheard> free giveaway
[07:27] <LaserJock> "open source" implies nothing about the cost
[07:27] <highvoltage> it also adds confusion. i've come across many people who think that open source software is just about 'having access to sourcecode'
[07:28] <highvoltage> but i agree with you
[07:28] <highvoltage> 'free software' is confusing for Mr Bob.
[07:28] <LaserJock> I guess I'm just too cheap, I've never paid (directly) for any software in my life
[07:28] <crimsun> that's why I use "Free/Libre/Open Source Software" (FLOSS)
[07:28] <LaserJock> crimsun: I like that term
[07:28] <LaserJock> especially since you have to talk about it for new people to know what's going on
[07:29] <highvoltage> yeah, FLOSS is like the all-encompasing, politically correct blanket acronym
[07:29] <RobinShepheard> my languages are very bad, what does libre translate to in english
[07:29] <highvoltage> it's libre as in 'liberating'
[07:29] <highvoltage> i think it might be a french word.
[07:29] <LaserJock> if you say "free" or "open" people are generally going to say, "oh yeah, I know what that means"
[07:29] <RobinShepheard> ahhh I did wonder, I think you are right in the french connection
[07:30] <LaserJock> it is a french word, isn't it in their motto or whatever
[07:30] <LaserJock> sort of
[07:30] <mhz> yeah, good tip, esp. in front of spanish speakers :)
[07:30] <RobinShepheard> dunno, geography never was my strong point
[07:31] <mhz> the problem for spanish speakers is that they dont understand/associate FLOSS to Software Libre 
[07:31] <highvoltage> RobinShepheard: where do you live?
[07:31] <mhz> unless they are involved in FLOSS :)
[07:31] <RobinShepheard> uk, bournemouth. It is on the south coast
[07:31] <crimsun> mhz: what generally is better semantically?
[07:31] <mhz> Libre is from Latin origin and in spanish is Libre
[07:32] <mhz> 'libre' in spanish makes the big difference from 'gratis' which we do translate as 'free of charge' in english
[07:33] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: is there an intention of creating loco groups for Edubuntu?? or will we use the Ubuntu ones??
[07:33] <LaserJock> hmm, that's interesting mhz
[07:33] <LaserJock> maybe English just needs to get with it and seperate out the definitions ;-)
[07:33] <RobinShepheard> lets face it, english is a far from perfect language
[07:33] <mhz> so, for any spanish speaker reading "Free software" they can mainly understand "Free of charge Software" unless you tell them Free as in freedom Software OR ... Software Libre
[07:34] <highvoltage> RobinShepheard: there's already one loco group in Italy
[07:34] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: No I am from the UK, bournemouth on the south coast
[07:34] <highvoltage> RobinShepheard: but yes, that's perhaps something we need to expand on
[07:34] <mhz> or... Open Source Software
[07:34] <LaserJock> crimsun: btw, I started reading "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist" :-)
[07:35] <highvoltage> RobinShepheard: sorry, i didn't mean to imply that you were in Italy :)
[07:35] <mhz> LaserJock: from Python" or from C" ?
[07:35] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: No problem, my mistake I think
[07:35] <LaserJock> Python
[07:35] <LaserJock> I don't know if I'll ever tackle C
[07:36] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: I would be willing to try and start one in the UK if there is enough interest, or at least be a point of contact
[07:36] <highvoltage> cbx33 would definately be interested.
[07:36] <crimsun> C is beautiful. C++ makes me weep. Java stabs me in the gut. Python pours me wine.
[07:36] <RobinShepheard> I notice there isn't apparently an Ubuntu one either
[07:37] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: He only lives about 25 miles from me
[07:37] <highvoltage> crimsun: i think i'll quote you on that some time :)
[07:37] <mhz> crimsun: it all depends on which meaning you want to give to the reader. In spanish lang. 'Free' accepts both trasnlations, with no exception :( :  'libre' (free as in freedom) and 'gratis' (free of charge). Hence Richard Stallman named his book, "Free as in Freedom", just to keep it clear
[07:37] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yep, I've just copy-n-pasted that into my archives :-)
[07:38] <highvoltage> LaserJock: :)
[07:38] <crimsun> mhz: makes [semantic]  sense given my rudimentary knowledge of Spanish
[07:38] <mhz> crimsun: hehe, I am glad to help
[07:39] <LaserJock> crimsun: why is C beautiful? if I can go a little OT for a sec
[07:39] <crimsun> LaserJock: the entire language is easily described in a compact volume (K&R)
[07:40] <crimsun> aka 'the C bible'
[07:40] <RobinShepheard> well it should be, they wrote the language as well as the book :)
[07:41] <Amaranth> i'm suddenly remembering that i hate socket programming :P
[07:41] <crimsun> LaserJock: C's actually very, very easy to understand as you read that K&R reference. It's when you start trying to /do/ stuff with it -- if you're used to slapping down solutions -- that it becomes a real issue.
[07:42] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:42] <RobinShepheard> LaserJock: planning is a must
[07:42] <highvoltage> mhz: edubuntu chile, would you consider that a loco team?
[07:42] <Amaranth> my only problem with C is that i (quoted from a friend) "go all mad professor"
[07:42] <LaserJock> well, my boss (who only knows Fortran and C) wrote our data aquisition program (curses+pgplot) and I need to modify it
[07:42] <mhz> highvoltage: hmmm, hmmm, hmmmm
[07:43] <LaserJock> and I'm petrified of the code
[07:43] <mhz> highvoltage: after FET or before?
[07:43] <crimsun> On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't teach C to middle schoolers. I usually start with Python for the kids I tutor.
[07:43] <highvoltage> mhz: i don't think it is officially yet, but perhaps we should put it through the EC at some stage and make it official?
[07:43] <mhz> highvoltage: I could answer that after FET, where we'll see for real who is who and what they'll do
[07:43] <highvoltage> mhz: after would be fine too
[07:44] <LaserJock> crimsun: now I feel really old :-)
[07:44] <highvoltage> yep, sounds good.
[07:44] <highvoltage> hey cbx33 
[07:44] <cbx33> hey highvoltage 
[07:44] <RobinShepheard> LaserJock: planning is a must:
[07:44] <RobinShepheard> doh key slip
[07:44] <cbx33> LaserJock, I managed to create my first package
[07:44] <highvoltage> i felt very old when i turned 21. it felt like life was over.
[07:44] <crimsun> LaserJock: yeah, that's one of the disadvantages of using C, too. Often you find yourself spending more time creating structure than you do actually resolving the original task.
[07:44] <cbx33> LaserJock, not thinking about learning C are you :p
[07:45] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: you interested in starting a UK Edubuntu group
[07:45] <highvoltage> also, C allows you to mess things up easier.
[07:45] <bddebian> w00t, go LaserJock! :_)
[07:45] <cbx33> RobinShepheard, yeh totally
[07:45] <highvoltage> just look at gcompris for instance. it will suddenly do weird things and use *huge* ammountes of memory for nothing.
[07:45] <LaserJock> cbx33: well, I think I need to know some C regardless of what I do. I keep running into it no matter how hard I try to avoid it ;-)
[07:45] <RobinShepheard> Figured it maybe easier for us as we are fairly local to each other
[07:45] <cbx33> yes highvoltage I've noticed that too
[07:45] <highvoltage> writing something like that in python would make it more difficult to mess up.
[07:45] <cbx33> highvoltage, but may make perfomance an issue
[07:46] <RobinShepheard> you are not responsible for the memory management, a big plus with python, perl etc
[07:46] <highvoltage> RobinShepheard: *nods*
[07:46] <RobinShepheard> probably the reason java is popular
[07:46] <RobinShepheard> well ish
[07:47] <highvoltage> cbx33: when you start swapping to disk on an LTSP server becuase your memory is running out, then you'll also have performance issues ;)
[07:47] <cbx33> heheh
[07:47] <cbx33> true
[07:47] <RobinShepheard> has anyone used the jit type compliler for python??
[07:47] <RobinShepheard> is it psyco??
[07:48] <mhz> highvoltage: however, in the meantime, I'd suggest this page includes links to 'where to go for help' --> http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
[07:49] <sbartleylinux> ogra: Have you had any time to look into printing off the back of a thin client?
[07:49] <mhz> highvoltage: "If you think you can help, why not join up to your local team?"
[07:50] <highvoltage> mhz: good idea, adding to to-do list
[07:51] <sbartleylinux> has anyone here experienced a dbus session error, generated by gnome-power-manager, when using freenx to connect to a dapper system
[07:51] <cbx33> highvoltage, you ready to disss website now
[07:51] <cbx33> disss=discuss DAMN THIS KEYBOARD
[07:51] <cbx33> sorry.....
[07:51] <cbx33> dapper has screwed up my keyboard aI don;t know why
[07:51] <highvoltage> cbx33: heh.
[07:51] <cbx33> aI = and I
[07:52] <highvoltage> cbx33: yes, we can diss the website now. I THINK IT SUX!
[07:52] <highvoltage> :P
[07:52] <cbx33> just let me make my wife a coffee and I'll be right with you
[07:52] <highvoltage> ok
[07:53] <highvoltage> i was originally going to say 'lucky you' (read that as 'just let my wife make me some coffee and i'll be right back with you')
[07:53] <LaserJock> lol
[07:53] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: I wish I could type that :)
[07:55] <honey> hey there, I have edubuntu 5.10, what command do I use to upgrade to 6.06?
[07:55] <mhz> highvoltage: lol
[07:55] <mhz> "master of puppets"
[07:55] <mhz> or "master and servants"
[07:56] <honey> so, I type "master of puppets" at the prompt?
[07:56] <highvoltage> honey: just a sec, i'll get you a link...
[07:56] <honey> :) jk
[07:56] <bddebian> Master of Puppets!! Great song
[07:56] <honey> highvoltage, tx!
[07:57] <highvoltage> honey: on http://www.edubuntu.org/news/5 there's a heading ' Upgrade information for Edubuntu 5.10 ("Breezy Badger") users'
[07:57] <highvoltage> honey: that should do it
[07:57] <honey> thanks highvoltage
[07:58] <cbx33> I'm back
[07:58] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: must have been instant then :0
[07:58] <cbx33> isn't it 
[07:59] <cbx33> sudo update-manager -d
[07:59] <highvoltage> the cbx33ernator
[07:59] <cbx33> now y'all stop poking fun
[07:59] <highvoltage> "i'll be baack"
[08:00] <cbx33> or with my keyboard
[08:00] <cbx33> I'll be bk
[08:00] <RobinShepheard> lol
[08:00] <highvoltage> cbx33: what i'd like to do is, create a page on our website for every piece of software we ship with edubuntu
[08:01] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: have you try changing the delay in prefs -> keyboard?
[08:01] <highvoltage> it's a lot of work, and it will require maintenance with new releases
[08:01] <cbx33> highvoltage, sounds like a greaidea though
[08:01] <cbx33> greaidea = great idea
[08:01] <cbx33> RobinShepheard, i don't think thats the issue
[08:01] <highvoltage> but we get lots of searches on the site for 'gcompris', etc... and it would be nice to explain these in more details, possibly having a 'quick start' guide to each app on those pages as well
[08:01] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: could you create a script to run through a directory list to produce the page
[08:01] <mhz> highvoltage: +1 but when you say "our site" you mean wiki or drupal?
[08:02] <highvoltage> since, to be honest, i don't know how to use many of those apps myself
[08:02] <cbx33> drupal
[08:02] <mhz> oh
[08:02] <highvoltage> RobinShepheard: i'm not sure what you mean?
[08:02] <cbx33> RobinShepheard, probably not appropriate here
[08:02] <cbx33> it's a lot of manual wor
[08:02] <cbx33> work
[08:02] <highvoltage> mhz: yes, they can even start off as wiki pages, if you would like it to be that, but we'd like it to live in the drupal website eventually
[08:02] <highvoltage> it is.
[08:02] <honey> highvoltage, sorry to bother you again, do I follow those instructions even though I'm not using LTSP?
[08:03] <highvoltage> but i think it would have a great end-result
[08:03] <RobinShepheard> well you could create the basic list by creating a script which would basically do a dir of the repository and create titles of software from packages
[08:03] <highvoltage> honey: you should be fine if you just leave out the ltsp parts (the parts that mentions chroot'ing, etc)
[08:03] <honey> ok, thanks :)
[08:04] <highvoltage> RobinShepheard: that's a good idea
[08:04] <cbx33> honey, you'll be fine
[08:04] <mhz> highvoltage: sure, it is jsut that Igor Tamara (aka, ikks) is a python and moin colombian guy. He'll be helping me with edubuntu and FET stuff.
[08:04] <mhz> jsut = just
[08:04] <RobinShepheard> and possibly bulk out the data by pulling it out of the package info
[08:04] <mhz> highvoltage: I remember I put my hands in EdubuntuSoftwareList while ago
[08:05] <mhz> and for many reasons, I just quit keeping such page.
[08:06] <mhz> I even started translations for it, but honestly, it kills my enthusiasm to do things twice, so I started in English, finished 1st part, then I realized it ws needed in spanish... and then I just lost my nerve :D
[08:07] <mhz> however, I do believe they need to be treated as individual wiki pages. My oriignal idea was to implement [[Include] ]  macro
[08:07] <cbx33> highvoltage, sounds like a great idea
[08:07] <RobinShepheard> daft question, what is the time in UTC
[08:07] <mhz> so they all were converged in just one wiki page
[08:07] <cbx33> RobinShepheard, for you 18:00
[08:07] <cbx33> or there abouts
[08:07] <RobinShepheard> did think so
[08:07] <cbx33> we could take the bits from the old ESA
[08:07] <mhz> RobinShepheard: for me, 20 UTC is 16:00 hours (Chilean time)
[08:08] <highvoltage> cbx33: yes, the ESA actually provides a good base.
[08:08] <cbx33> because we did short descriptions for each application
[08:08] <cbx33> which were cut down on the finished product
[08:08] <cbx33> but if you delve into the get info of the wiki esa
[08:08] <cbx33> you'll find a lot more info
[08:08] <highvoltage> i think i'll do one on firefox, as an example.
[08:08] <cbx33> highvoltage, cool
[08:09] <RobinShepheard> I am willing to help with typing descriptions up for various packages in english
[08:09] <mhz> +1
[08:09] <cbx33> you know, this could help a lot with the edubuntu book
[08:09] <cbx33> RobinShepheard, excellent
[08:09] <highvoltage> will do it this weekend, and then we can make a list of all the apps we want to cover (which would be all of them, ideally).
[08:09] <cbx33> nice one highvoltage 
[08:09] <cbx33> I'll help out with that
[08:09] <highvoltage> yep, i think we can do about two-three pages per app.
[08:10] <cbx33> define a page, on a website :p
[08:10] <highvoltage> screenshots, description, quick start, tips and tricks, optimisation and troubleshooting...
[08:10] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: count me in on the project if I can help
[08:10] <highvoltage> lots you can write about each app that would be helpful for a user
[08:10] <highvoltage> RobinShepheard: excellent :)
[08:10] <highvoltage> i intend to involve the whole edubuntu-website team on this. it's something that many people can contribute to.
[08:10] <cbx33> highvoltage, seriously though, this could provide good base for the edubuntu book I was thinking of
[08:11] <highvoltage> nice.
[08:11] <cbx33> hi HedgeMage 
[08:11] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: I will lend a hand with that if you need it
[08:11] <cbx33> RobinShepheard, excellent, pygi and HedgeMage worked on that last cookbook
[08:11] <HedgeMage> just to be sure that I remember how time zones work, the meeting is in approx 2 hours, correct?
[08:11] <cbx33> I think the plan is that the next one will   BIGGER
[08:11] <cbx33> HedgeMage, true
[08:12] <HedgeMage> cbx33: cool
[08:12] <highvoltage> hey hedgy
[08:12] <HedgeMage> btw, great timing... my laptop died last night, so I only have the office computer... I'll be mostly not-here until the meeting starts, as there's a limited amount of time TT will stay entertained in the office, and I plan to save it for the meeting :)
[08:12] <lucasvo> *lol* I read edgy
[08:13] <highvoltage> TT?
[08:13] <lucasvo> how do you like the new ./ desigN?
[08:13] <mhz> highvoltage: plus, if possible, add end-users feedback and teachers use of each app.
[08:13] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: TT == Toddling Tornado   (aka my 3yo son)
[08:13] <highvoltage> mhz: ok
[08:14] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: :)
[08:15] <highvoltage> wow, for last 7 days, edubuntu is #25 on distrowatch
[08:16] <cbx33> yikes
[08:16] <cbx33> we're going up up up
[08:16] <RobinShepheard> serious
[08:16] <lucasvo> cool!
[08:16] <lucasvo> also our IRC channel is getting more crowded everyday
[08:17] <bddebian> highvoltage: Nice
[08:17] <RobinShepheard> highvoltage: as in distrowatch.com ????
[08:18] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: yes
[08:18] <highvoltage> yep. xubuntu is also doing nicely. it only released a week ago and is on number 5 for last 7 days.
[08:18] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: cool
[08:18] <highvoltage> RobinShepheard: yes: http://distrowatch.com/index.php?dataspan=1
[08:19] <cbx33> Ubuntu is wwwaaaayyyy up there
[08:19] <RobinShepheard> I got it, need to get my glasses changed, couldn't see it for looking, had to search
[08:20] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: no kidding it only has 13 times the number of hit as Edubuntu
[08:20] <lucasvo> cbx33: well that's not bad, is it?
[08:20] <cbx33> no
[08:20] <cbx33> not at all
[08:20] <Burgwork> cbx33, there is almost an order of magnitude between 1 and 2, eh?
[08:20] <cbx33> heheh
[08:22] <RobinShepheard> shows how much difference a new release made as it has gone from 45 over 30 days to 25 in the last 7
[08:22] <highvoltage> skolelinux and k12-ltsp doesn't even make the top100 :/
[08:23] <lucasvo> highvoltage: is k12-ltsp still in development?
[08:23] <lucasvo> uh, it's redhat based
[08:23] <lucasvo> :(
[08:23] <RobinShepheard> I have to scoot, I have the local linux user group to go to and maybe even get them to donate towards a stand a BETT2007 :)
[08:23] <highvoltage> lucasvo: yes, it is. it's now based on Fedora Core
[08:24] <highvoltage> we used to use it in tuxlabs.
[08:24] <cbx33> RobinShepheard, 
[08:24] <lucasvo> well that still sucks
[08:24] <cbx33> did you get my msage
[08:24] <cbx33> we can't do that until we get approval from canonical
[08:24] <lucasvo> it should be discontinued and all the work should be on edubuntu
[08:24] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: no not yet
[08:24] <cbx33> but please spread the word
[08:24] <lucasvo> everybody would profit
[08:25] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: where did you send the mesasge
[08:25] <cbx33> on IRC
[08:25] <lucasvo> cbx33: you mean, we are not allowed to change the edubuntu.org page without canonical's approval
[08:25] <cbx33> no
[08:25] <lucasvo> cbx33: are you identified?
[08:25] <highvoltage> cbx33: what are you looking at doing?
 I have to scoot, I have the local linux user group to go to and maybe even get them to donate towards a stand a BETT2007 :)
[08:25] <lucasvo> cbx33: write silbs a mail
[08:25] <RobinShepheard> ahh I was having loads of probs with the internet connectioon at work earlier
[08:25] <HedgeMage> what can't we do until we get the okay from canonical?
[08:25] <cbx33> we can't gather funds for BETT2007 till it has been approved
[08:26] <highvoltage> $ locate HedgeMage
[08:26] <RobinShepheard> I was only going to get them to agree to stump up some cash if need be
[08:26] <highvoltage> /lost+found/HedgeMadge
[08:26] <cbx33> RobinShepheard, excellent
[08:26] <cbx33> go right ahead :p
[08:26] <RobinShepheard> if I could
[08:26] <RobinShepheard> and if they will
[08:26] <dan_young> lucasvo: K12LTSP has a vibrant user community; a Fedora-based LTSP implementation provides some nice coopetition. ;-)
[08:27] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: still here
[08:27] <HedgeMage> :P
[08:27] <lucasvo> dan_young: why shouldn't the community become part of the edubuntu community
[08:28] <dan_young> lucasvo: some people (gasp) prefer Fedora to Ubuntu. I personally use and enjoy both. It's not a zero-sum game and there is significant cross-pollination w/ K12LTSP/Edubuntu.
[08:28] <lucasvo> dan_young: with a merge, one could save a lot of work being done twice
[08:29] <lucasvo> dan_young: hm, that is true
[08:30] <dan_young> There is probably a ton of duplication of effort globally W.R.T. open-source, but great things happen anyways. Look at the plethora of desktop environments. Should Kubuntu and Xubuntu be dropped to unify under a GNOME Ubuntu? Probably not...
[08:30] <ogra> lucasvo, the initial idea for edubuntu came from the founder of k12ltsp ... its very sane to have both distros involved and provide choice for users
[08:30] <dan_young> ogra: Yeah, he's my boss. ;-)
[08:30] <highvoltage> dan_young: isn't coopetition a microsoft invented word? :)
[08:30] <lucasvo> dan_young: well, Kubuntu should be dropped
[08:31] <lucasvo> dan_young: xubuntu has an entire different target
[08:31] <ogra> dan_young, so when do you guys start with MueKow ?
[08:31] <dan_young> highvoltage: dunno, but its sounded good, eh?
[08:31] <lucasvo> dan_young: muekow is already a step forward
[08:31] <lucasvo> (to not doing duplicate work)
[08:31] <dan_young> ogra: I think he wants to get the FC5 release out the door and shoot for FC6...
[08:32] <ogra> ah, cool
[08:32] <ogra> debian did a lot of work on our packages, seems gentoo considers porting them directly 
[08:32] <dan_young> ogra: need to look into the "mock" tool for doing the build roots; off to lunch, catch up in a bit....
[08:32] <highvoltage> FC's release cycle is just hectic. it was one of the biggest problems we had with it.
[08:32] <ogra> highvoltage, weekly ? 
[08:33] <spacey> =)
[08:33] <pygi> hey all
[08:33] <spacey> hi hi
[08:34] <highvoltage> ogra: probably as often as ubuntu, the problem with FC is, as soon as a new one is released, the previous version becomes obsolete and unsupported
[08:34] <highvoltage> ogra: at least you get 18 months on ubuntu
[08:34] <highvoltage> (and the 3 years on LTS is great too)
[08:34] <ogra> yeah
[08:35] <Burgwork> highvoltage, and upgrades are very painful
[08:35] <highvoltage> *very*
[08:36] <lucasvo> I think the LTS buisiness is a good idea
[08:36] <highvoltage> at least, it was between RH9 and FC1 and from FC1 to FC2. We skipped FC3, and before FC4 were released, we switched to ubuntu.
[08:37] <Burgwork> apparently FC4+ is ok now
[08:38] <lucasvo> I think ubuntu should adopt the pane scheme from SUSE
[08:38] <Burgwork> pane
[08:38] <Burgwork> ?
[08:38] <lucasvo> +l
[08:38] <lucasvo> I mean panels
[08:38] <Burgwork> oh, the single panel one?
[08:38] <lucasvo> yes
[08:38] <lucasvo> I love it
[08:39] <highvoltage> we use a single panel in tuxlabs, which is similar to the SUSE one
[08:39] <Burgwork> you love it is not a good reason
[08:39] <Burgwork> personally, I am excited to see gimmee and what it can do for gnome panels
[08:40] <highvoltage> gimmee?
[08:40] <Amaranth> lucasvo: you mean SLED 10?
[08:40] <Amaranth> highvoltage: object oriented desktop or some such thing
[08:41] <Burgwork> http://www.beatniksoftware.com/gimmie/index.html
[08:41] <lucasvo> Amaranth: I don't know, the one which is on osdir
[08:41] <lucasvo> Burgwork: yeah, that is true
[08:41] <lucasvo> It uses less space
[08:41] <Amaranth> lucasvo: if it's on osdir it's probably not SLED 10
[08:41] <Amaranth> i like my two panels
[08:41] <lucasvo> Amaranth: in that case it's opensuse
[08:41] <Amaranth> i always have too much stuff to fit on one panel
[08:42] <lucasvo> Amaranth: the typical user hasn't
[08:42] <lucasvo> Amaranth: if you have to much stuff you probably added it manually
[08:42] <Amaranth> and two panels gives you full corner quick access
[08:42] <pygi> HedgeMage, poke
[08:42] <Amaranth> so, i've got a small proxy that handles GETs working...
[08:42] <Burgwork> gimmie plus a top panel is the best, I think
[08:43] <Amaranth> Burgwork: sounds like OS X
[08:43] <ogra> bah, we mutate to OSX ?
[08:43] <ogra> heh
[08:43] <Burgwork> Amaranth, like the dock, but better
[08:43] <Amaranth> the dock is horrible, please don't try to make a "better dock"
[08:43] <pygi> ogra, is meeting in 20 minutes?
[08:43] <Amaranth> pygi: SoC meeting is
[08:43] <cbx33> pygi, 1hr 20
[08:44] <Amaranth> 16 minutes, to be exact
[08:44] <pygi> cbx33, ah, oki, thanks :)
[08:44] <ogra> pygi, 20:00 UTC :)
[08:44] <pygi> it writes ETC on that page of fridge :P
[08:45] <Burgwork> Amaranth, just look at it
[08:45] <pygi> thanks anyway, talk to you all later then ;)
[08:47] <lucasvo> Amaranth: to continue my sentence since I got distracted. ... and if you added it manually, you would have added a panel if needed as well. Most peope don't change the panel
[08:49] <Burgwork> Amaranth, you meeting in here or in #ubuntu-meeting?
[08:49] <HedgeMage> pygi: here, but only for a moment
[08:49] <ogra> Burgwork, we'll do it in PM i think
[08:49] <Burgwork> ah, ok
[08:50] <ogra> or is there a need for publicity ? 
[08:50] <ogra> we can do it in #ubuntu-willow or something if thats needed
[08:51] <Burgwork> ogra, well, I was hoping I could get anselmo is be there, but I don
[08:51] <Burgwork> t think he is available
[08:52] <Burgwork> ogra, so, do it in PM, anselmo's stuff only needs to know how to hook into it
[08:53] <ogra> oh, right, i forgot about epiphany 
[08:53] <lucasvo> I don't know epiphany
[08:53] <lucasvo> I don't like the idea of creating another browser
[08:54] <lucasvo> well apperantly somebody already did it
[08:54] <ogra> well, we'll likely switch to it in edgy
[08:54] <lucasvo> I began to try it out for a couple of days
[08:54] <lucasvo> but I miss the extensions
[08:54] <HedgeMage> th1a: ping!
[08:54] <lucasvo> and a lot people switching from windows already know Firefox
[08:55] <lucasvo> ogra: why that?
[08:55] <lucasvo> because it's gnome?
[08:55] <th1a> HedgeMage: Hi.
[08:55] <HedgeMage> th1a: hey there... I'm more coherent now.  Slept off the allergy attack :)
[08:55] <Burgwork> lucasvo, uhh, Firefox has less name recognition than people realize and most users simply don't car
[08:55] <Burgwork> e
[08:55] <ogra> lucasvo, its way smaller since it has no own langpacks, its needed for gnomes kiosk mode its better integrated
[08:55] <Burgwork> they would rather have the tight integration into gnome than a name
[08:56] <ogra> etc etc
[08:56] <lucasvo> well, why not develop a tight integration in gnome for firefox?
[08:56] <Burgwork> lucasvo, that is more work and upstream doesn't really care
[08:56] <Burgwork> firefox and epiphany share the same rendering enginge
[08:56] <lucasvo> Burgwork: well I think a lot of people do care
[08:56] <Burgwork> yes, they want a browser that works. Epiphany is that browser
[08:57] <lucasvo> Burgwork: there are lots of extensions who can't be used
[08:57] <th1a> HedgeMage: I've gotten some good ideas since last night about how to get this process going.
[08:57] <lucasvo> what about adblock?
[08:57] <Burgwork> most users never use extensions
[08:57] <lucasvo> Burgwork: you think?
[08:57] <Burgwork> most users never use a single plugin of any kind
[08:57] <Burgwork> it is the biggest failure of plugins
[08:58] <HedgeMage> th1a: I'm interested, fill me in :)
[08:58] <lucasvo> Burgwork: I do, so I will use Firefox
[08:58] <th1a> HedgeMage: Now that I've been writing a little code (finally) I'm getting to know the protocol a bit better.
[08:59] <th1a> HedgeMage: And if we assume that we're starting with a ZIS that only shares data on a secure localhost, and set some other reasonable limitations,
[09:00] <th1a> we can have a very simple ZIS that is simple enough to write quickly and simply and do useful things.
[09:00] <HedgeMage> Burgwork: how is that a failure? do we really need bloatware that comes with every feature imaginable (not that firefox isn't big, but with less stuff seperated off as extensions, it would be bigger)
[09:01] <HedgeMage> th1a: what language are you leaning toward, and what kind of time frame are you looking at?
[09:01] <th1a> HedgeMage: Python, although definitely avoiding scary frameworks (Twisted, Zope 3, etc.).
[09:02] <th1a> We could support a useful subset of the protocol quickly, I think, a few months work.
[09:03] <th1a> Now, it might not do a lot of things you'd want in a real ZIS operating over an intranet (encryption, authentication, etc.),
[09:03] <th1a> but you could skip if you're only passing data around the localhost, which would still be useful.
[09:04] <Amaranth> ogra: where are we doing the SoC thing?
[09:04] <th1a> Essentially, you're just writing an XML router.
[09:04] <Amaranth> actually, it looks like all the people might not be here...
[09:04] <HedgeMage> th1a: interesting
[09:04] <ogra> Amaranth, in PM, wait a second until i'm done in -devel
[09:04] <Amaranth> ok
[09:05] <Burgwork> HedgeMage, I would not classify epiphany as bloatware. It is a not a black and white thing. I think FF tries to be too minimal
[09:05] <Burgwork> lucasvo, again, those of us in this IRC channel are not the target audience for Edubuntu
[09:05] <HedgeMage> Burgwork: I haven't used epiphany, so I really can't make an educated comment...
[09:06] <Burgwork> HedgeMage, fair enough
[09:06] <ogra> Burgwork, i am !
[09:06] <th1a> HedgeMage: If you've looked at the whole SIF spec, it is intimidating, but I think we can cut it down to managable chunks.
[09:06] <lucasvo> Burgwork: yeah
[09:06] <HedgeMage> lucasvo: and I don't think anyone's saying not to package ff for ubuntu
[09:06] <ogra> Burgwork, i use what i build :)
[09:06] <HedgeMage> lucasvo: they're just talking defaults
[09:06] <lucasvo> Burgwork: but the target audience was using FF before switching to ubuntu
[09:06] <Burgwork> lucasvo, no, they were not
[09:06] <lucasvo> Burgwork: you sure?
[09:06] <HedgeMage> lucasvo: and, it's probably safe to say that iff you are on the internet enough to care what extensions you have, you have access to apt-get install firefox
[09:06] <lucasvo> I was
[09:06] <Burgwork> lucasvo, remember, I sell Linux-based comptuers to libraries
[09:06] <lucasvo> my sister was
[09:06] <ogra> lucasvo, well, the target audience was likely using IE
[09:07] <Burgwork> I have a fair idea of what is out there and FF ain't it
[09:07] <lucasvo> ogra: In almost every school I know they have FF, IE, Safari
[09:07] <Burgwork> it hasn't penetrated teh big IT silos of education yet
[09:07] <HedgeMage> Burgwork: depends on where... A lot of the areas I'd target are big FF and Oo.o users on windows, and having those apps by default is a big thing.  However, I don't think it's neccessarily true of the planet as a whole
[09:08] <Burgwork> anyway, browser is not going to make or break a deal
[09:08] <Burgwork> people are care more about how it can solve their issues than the technology that solves them
[09:08] <ogra> surely not if it sanitizes the CD size
[09:08] <Burgwork> trust me
[09:09] <Burgwork> epiphany does wonderful things for our cd size, yes
[09:09] <highvoltage> i once heard an interesting story from a K12-LTSP school.
[09:09] <ogra> especially since we can drop the ugly ff langpacks :)
[09:09] <highvoltage> in their district, the only requirement for computer classes was that the schools in the disctrict must run IE
[09:10] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: ugh
[09:10] <highvoltage> the inspectors looked that the K12LTSP lab ans was very unimpressed, and insisted that they install windows to get IE.
[09:10] <highvoltage> so..
[09:10] <Burgwork> ogra, what kind of size are we looking at?
[09:10] <highvoltage> the administrator of tha lab installed an IE theme for Mozilla, and created a shortcut to it from the desktop that had the IE logo, and it said Internet Explorer
[09:11] <highvoltage> the inspectors looked at it, visited the local education site, and it worked, so they said it was fine :)
[09:11] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: roflmao
[09:11] <ogra> Burgwork, epi is 2M big
[09:11] <HedgeMage> people can be SO ignorant!
[09:11] <HedgeMage> brb
[09:11] <Burgwork> ogra, ah, cool
[09:11] <ogra> Burgwork, no idea what ff + llangpacks dropping gains us, but it will be a lot
[09:11] <highvoltage> they later made a script so that other schools in the district could easily do the same. strange world we live in :)
[09:12] <Burgwork> ogra, now if we only drop OO.o
[09:12] <ogra> never :)
[09:12] <Burgwork> highvoltage,  we have an IE-mode on the toolbar of the epiphnay we ship
[09:12] <highvoltage> Burgwork: ok, i thought you shipped firefox. cool.
[09:12] <Amaranth> goofy wireless
[09:13] <lucasvo> ogra: and what about gnumeric?
[09:13] <Burgwork> lucasvo, doesn't do ODF well enough yet
[09:13] <ogra> lucasvo, what about gnumeric ? its a nice app ...
[09:13] <highvoltage> problem is, OOo is covered by ICDL (and OpenICDL) where Gnumeric and Abiword isn't.
[09:13] <lucasvo> ICDL?
[09:13] <highvoltage> for training purposes, you have to have OOo.
[09:14] <highvoltage> lucasvo: International Computers Drivers' License
[09:14] <highvoltage> it's like a standard in computer literacy
[09:14] <lucasvo> one thing about epiphany I HATE, is that it doesn't resize the width of the tabs in the tabbar
[09:14] <lucasvo> is there a setting to change this?
[09:14] <Burgwork> lucasvo, not currently
[09:15] <lucasvo> Burgwork: is it going to be implemented?
[09:15] <Burgwork> lucasvo, no idea, ask the epiphany devs
[09:15] <Burgwork> they have done amazing things with few people
[09:17] <lucasvo> Burgwork: yeah they copied the gecko :P
[09:18] <lucasvo> just kidding
[09:18] <lucasvo> this is the best thing about the browser :)
[09:23] <lucasvo> is that correct syntax for lts.conf: [DEFAULT] 
[09:23] <lucasvo> HorizSync = 30-60
[09:23] <lucasvo> VertRefresh = 50-75
[09:23] <lucasvo> ?
[09:27] <dan_young> lucasvo: should be X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH
[09:28] <lucasvo> but I don't need the " "?
[09:29] <dan_young> lucasvo: I think you need to quote the arguements like this:X_HORZSYNC =  "31.5 - 91.1"
[09:30] <lucasvo> ok
[09:30] <lucasvo> thanks
[09:31] <lucasvo> anybody saw the movie elephant's dream?
[09:31] <HedgeMage> lucasvo: nope, haven't had time to check it out
[09:32] <HedgeMage> lucasvo: heeard it turned out very well, though
[09:33] <lucasvo> is that still up to date for dapper: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLtsConfParams?action=show&redirect=EdubuntuLtsParams
[09:33] <ogra> its for breezy
[09:33] <ogra> as the line of text at the top states :)
[09:34] <lucasvo> ogra: is there a way to set the screen resolution in dapper?
[09:34] <ogra> but we had no regressions,, so all parameters that worked there work in dapper as well
[09:34] <ogra> yes, by setting X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH :)
[09:35] <lucasvo> what are typical values for 15" tft?
[09:35] <spacey> for TFT is doesn't really matter does it
[09:36] <lucasvo> spacey: it could be to high
[09:36] <spacey> mine says it is 60hz
[09:36] <lucasvo> spacey: thanks
[09:36] <spacey> i forgot what i put in lts.conf for our tft's
[09:36] <spacey> lucasvo: i mean on my laptop :p
[09:36] <spacey> hold on
[09:37] <spacey>         X_MODE_0 = 1280x1024
[09:37] <spacey>         X_HORZSYNC = "60-70"
[09:37] <HedgeMage> I'll be back in time for the meeting, ATM tt needs me
[09:37] <spacey> thats only thing we specified
[09:38] <highvoltage> spacey: X_MODE_0 isn't being used anymore (says ogra)
[09:38] <spacey> ltsp classic btw, not sure if its the same for ubuntu ltsp
[09:38] <spacey> :o
[09:38] <spacey> i'm tainting the channel again ;(
[09:39] <spacey> highvoltage: anyway for ltsp.org 4.2 it does something, since else it only does 1024x768
[09:39] <ogra> its not possible to preseed xmode in our xserver, it would break the autoconfiguration
[09:39] <ogra> but setting X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH usually offers you the right modes
[09:39] <highvoltage> yep, X_MODE_0 still works on ltsp classic
[09:39] <spacey> ltsp.org detection is _really_ crappy
[09:40] <highvoltage> it is quite.
[09:40] <spacey>         X_VIDEORAM = 16384
[09:40] <spacey>         XSERVER = via
[09:40] <spacey>         X_MODE_0 = 1280x1024
[09:40] <spacey>         X_HORZSYNC = "60-70"
[09:40] <spacey> for 1 client:)
[09:40] <spacey> else it doesn't work properly
[09:40] <lucasvo> ok, now the only prob I still have, when I strat the Thinclient, all works fine, but as soon as X started up and you see the mouse, it puts you to tty0
[09:40] <lucasvo> the xserver ist still running
[09:47] <mhz> hmm, anyone heard of this: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longmeng
[09:47] <mhz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longmeng
[09:47] <mhz> :D
[09:50] <lucasvo> well if 1billion chinese would use it, linux would win a lot of market share :P
[09:51] <bddebian> heh
[09:51] <lucasvo> only facts ;)
[09:52] <Burgwork> the only issue with OLPC is the fact that you are exposing hundeds of thounsands of children to the horrors of RPM hell
[09:53] <lucasvo> exactly
[09:53] <lucasvo> when there would be .deb heaven
[09:54] <highvoltage> yay! a .deb vs .rpm flamewar already! :)
[09:54] <lucasvo> I am not in a flamewar mood
[09:54] <lucasvo> and the channel op are a little not neutrol
[09:54] <lucasvo> it's not an appopriate battlefield
[09:55] <highvoltage> heh.
[09:56] <lucasvo> or whatever they're called
[09:56] <Burgwork> lucasvo, highvoltage and I can have a wheel war!
[09:56] <lucasvo> wheel?
[09:57] <Burgwork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wheel_war
[09:57] <Burgwork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_war
[09:58] <cbx33>  love wheel wars
[09:58] <lucasvo> sounds like fun
[10:00] <ogra> *** Reminder (even i'm late) Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ****
[10:35] <highvoltage> goodnight, #edubuntu
[10:59] <mhz> "and that is it for tonight's Edubuntu Meeting, folks!"
[10:59] <cbx33> indeed
[10:59] <ogra> :)
[10:59] <HedgeMage> :D
[10:59] <crimsun> 'night ogra 
[10:59] <mhz> HedgeMage: congrats!
[10:59] <mhz> pygi: congrats!
[10:59] <HedgeMage> Thanks, mhz :D
[10:59] <cbx33> you guys all rock
[10:59] <jsgotangco> because?
[10:59] <HedgeMage> cbx33: why on earth?
[10:59] <mhz> cbx33: I dont rock, I reggae :D
[10:59] <pygi> thanks mhz ;)
[10:59] <lucasvo> mhz: yeah, me too
[11:00] <jsgotangco> cbx33: try attending a devel summit you'll feel very very small on yuor first day
[11:01] <mhz> lucasvo: well, to be totaly honest, it is not that I actually do it, it is more than I see the girl in front of me doing her dancing while I think about the things schools may use in their labs and how to convince teachers to just join Edubuntu once and for all and start getting contents to it so we can package it :D
[11:02] <mhz> jsgotangco: you small?
[11:02] <mhz> how many times?
[11:02] <mhz> lucasvo: so, you may get betta chance to get to your techas
[11:03] <jsgotangco> mhz: you will feel very small when you get to talk to mdz in person for the first time
[11:03] <lucasvo> mhz: not really
[11:04] <mhz> jsgotangco: because he's too tall? too much of a great hacker?
[11:04] <mhz> or just because I am too short
[11:04] <mdz> I'm only about 145cm in fact, so I guess it must be my commanding presence
[11:05] <mhz> jsgotangco: wait!
[11:05] <mhz> I know
[11:05] <jsgotangco> i said "feel" not "i am short"
[11:05] <mhz> jsgotangco: the 3 of them
[11:05] <jsgotangco> mhz: i am only 5'4" but that's racial in nature
[11:05] <mhz> hmm, I count in mt or cm
[11:06] <mhz> I am 1 mt 67 cm
[11:06] <mhz> jsgotangco: well, I hope I can talk to mdz once :)
[11:07] <mhz> Maybe if FET Libre 2006 is good, Mark will consider next Edubuntu meeting to take place in Chile :)
[11:07] <mhz> at least, edubuntu is the # distro for all the organization's PCs
[11:07] <mhz> #1
[11:09] <pygi> ogra, sorry about big "two liner" :P
[11:09] <ogra> heh, its fine 
[11:09] <ogra> as long as we are that small still we have all freedom we want 
[11:10] <mhz> pygi: at least they were not 4 lines ! :D
[11:10] <ogra> i guess it will look different in 1 year
[11:10] <pygi> ogra, I do hope :)
[11:11] <pygi> I do really hope to get involved in LTSP stuff more so I could be more of help on that front
[11:12] <ogra> looking at the current debian code i hope the same, belive me ...
[11:12] <ogra> merging that will take a lot of work *sigh* 
[11:12] <pygi> ogra, no worries, I can help with coding and fixing bugs even if I am not MOTU, so ...
[11:12] <ogra> and they didnt develop their new modularization feature in a separate branch, fun
[11:13] <pygi> joy :-/
[11:13] <ogra> well, currenly i have a tree with 189 commits of which i want probably 70 ...
[11:13] <ogra> not that these 70 would be in a row ...
[11:13] <pygi> are you the only one currently working on LTSP?
[11:14] <ogra> or even be based on anything we have in our package 
[11:14] <ogra> well, i used to be upstream ... but debian had the idea to take over upstream :(
[11:14] <pygi> oh :(
[11:14] <ogra> so they just randomly merged everything they found out there in the wild into their branch
[11:15] <pygi> ugh, thats not really good :-/
[11:15] <ogra> there are great improvements, but its a pain to pick them if you dont want the whole
[11:16] <pygi> agreed, can you gimme url of their repository so I could take a look at it?
[11:16] <ogra> eun is if they merge with my tree in the middle of their feature development process ...
[11:16] <ogra> s/eun/fun
[11:17] <ogra> pygi, http://pkg-ltsp.alioth.debian.org/bzr/main/
[11:17] <pygi> sorry, gotta run now and thanks
[11:27] <cbx33> ogra, what do we have for scp at the mo
[11:42] <paolob-parroquia> Hi guys!
[11:44] <paolob-parroquia> After the dapper upgrade the ltsp freezes, sometimes once a hour, without a fixed time or interval, and independently from working on the server or not. Any idea what is that?
[11:46] <skipster23> i have this computer were the bios doesn't support cd booting is there somthing i can do to boot edubuntu 6.06
[11:48] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:49] <LaserJock> back in the day I used to use boot floppies for that sort of thing skipster23 
[11:49] <dan_young> skipster23: the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/Netboot) has info on netbooting for installation...
[11:49] <Amaranth> i dunno how to make those anymore :P
[11:50] <skipster23> ya but im new to linux and i can't just use one of these old DOS disks laying around
[11:50] <skipster23> dan_young: Its my friend computer and she doesn't have the net right yet
[11:51] <dan_young> skipster23: basically, it's going to suck and be difficult to do w/o CD-booting; bummer, dude....
[11:51] <dan_young> might check out this also...
[11:51] <dan_young> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/FromHardDriveWithFloppies
[11:52] <skipster23> i'll ceck it out thanks
[11:56] <pygi> sorry ogra, somebody reported a server problem, had to check it out
[11:57] <pygi> thanks for the bzr repo url, I'll be sure to check it out tommorow
[12:05] <Amaranth> ogra: I, uh, have HTTPS working. :)
[12:05] <Amaranth> ogra: don't think it'll work with a transparent setup though