=== chrisle [n=chris@p54BE0CFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === FliesLikeALap [n=Ryan@ool-45796272.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jono [n=jono@88-107-11-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:11] hey [12:11] evenin === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:18] night === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-206-191-39-232.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ubijtsa [n=ubijtsa@karlsson.force9.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === GmanZZZ is now known as Gman === Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === paradon [n=thomas@202.37.90.163] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jlj [n=agp@adsl-68-124-185-54.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:16] jcole: you'll need silo installed for that to work; otherwise, download silo_1.4.10-0ubuntu4_sparc.deb from the archive, 'mkdir boot1; ar p silo_1.4.10-0ubuntu4_sparc.deb data.tar.gz | tar zxf - -C boot1 ./boot/{isofs,second}.b', and change '-G /boot/isofs.b -B ...' to '-G boot1/boot/isofs.b -B ... boot1' [01:17] (the latter was derived from how debian-cd does it) === anselmolsm [n=anselmol@200-232-236-25.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anselmo [n=anselmol@200-232-236-25.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === FunnyLookinHat [n=funnyloo@71.57.11.218] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asw [n=asw@karuna.med.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:29] Kamion: i'll try that [01:29] Kamion: thatnks === seth [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [n=richard@C1500200.wl150.flinders.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === SymGeosis [n=mike@mtairy-motorola1-68-71-230-109.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-146-167-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:42] mmmm good news http://blogs.gnome.org/view/carlosg/2006/06/06/0 === Gman is now known as GmanAFK === human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nexu [n=nexu@a80-126-56-145.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:47] when will ubuntu be ready to ship dbus 0.61? [01:47] python-dbus 0.60 has a very annoything bug === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:50] nexu: did you find it in our bugtracker? === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:50] mdke: negative [01:52] nexu: it's going to be difficult for it to get fixed if it isn't in there [01:52] nay, impossible [01:52] morning [01:54] mdke: i heard dbus guys saying that ubuntu hasnt bumped the dbus to 0.61 due to some binary incompactibility with something i cant really remember what it was but that was from 2 months ago [01:54] heard from * === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:54] when was 0.61 released? === lakin [n=lakin@S01060013101832ce.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:55] "there was a minor binary imcompatible change that required a rebuild of gnome-power-manager 2 months ago" [01:55] it's likely that it was too close to our UpstreamVersionFreeze to be considered for dapper [01:56] is there *any* repo atm which has 0.61 dbus ? [01:56] Ubuntu, no? [01:56] we haven't opened our new development release yet [01:57] nexu: if the bugfix is backportable, and you file a bug, you never know, it might be considered for Ubuntu 6.06 [01:57] mdke : i pretty much suck at bug reporting heh [02:00] nexu: but the Ubuntu developers pretty much suck at fixing bugs they don't know about, so it's worth a try [02:01] maybe they know about it already, maybe not [02:01] mdke: haha ok, fair enough [02:01] i'll give it a try [02:01] gonna try to diff the python2.4-dbus source atm first [02:01] see whats the difference [02:01] that of ubuntu and dbus cvs [02:02] good luck [02:02] ty === imbrandon64 [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:03] bug 46665 [02:03] Malone bug 46665 in debian-installer "[ia64] Failure to mount root filesystem after install" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/46665 [02:03] *sigh* [02:03] mom needs more hamsters [02:03] jcole: ? [02:04] Keybuk: sorry about that, we're talking about that bug in another room [02:04] ah [02:04] it's one of those general "d-i does things differently to udev" bugs :-/ [02:05] it would be nice if we could fix all of them === svu [n=svu@194.46.182.134] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:08] why not change ppc ubuntu builds to ppc64? [02:08] they are ppc64s I think [02:09] The builds, not the buildds. [02:09] svu: There's no value in building binaries for ppc64 by default. [02:09] Keybuk, only the kernel. all the rest is ppc32, according to file /usr/bin/* [02:09] svu: They just end up bigger and slower. [02:09] svu: that's normal [02:09] you don't want a 64-bit userland on ppc (or sparc) [02:09] infinity, why slower? wouldn't it take advantage of faster operations on long operands? [02:10] cache-hogs [02:10] infinity: heh, clearly it is getting late [02:10] Keybuk, why? why do people create 64-bit CPUs anyway?:) [02:11] svu: we provide a 64-bit libc, and for specific applications that will benefit from being compiled for ppc64, that can be done. [02:11] I think the AMD64 is pretty unique that it actually runs better in 64-bit mode than 32-bit, no? [02:11] Keybuk, pretty much [02:11] svu: In the general case, you lose performance. [02:11] that's more the suckage of ia32 though [02:12] Keybuk: Yeah, amd64's architecture changes made porting a huge win. [02:12] Keybuk, pretty much :) [02:12] Keybuk: But that's a rarity. === jdub_ [n=jdub@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:12] infinity, funny. Is there a special page in wiki regarding libc64 and all the apps taking advantage of 64-bit mode? [02:12] svu: The same is true for sparc/sparc64, hppa/hppa64... You always want a 64-bit kernel, but you almost never want a 64-bit userland unless you know you do. [02:12] I'm wondering if we couldn't optimize gcc to use 16-bit registers on i386 [02:13] or even 8-bit :P === imbrandon64 shoves Chipzz off a 4bit cliff [02:13] infinity, what kind of advantage do I get with 64-bit kernel then? [02:14] I still have the Osbourne 4 and 8-bit Microprocessor Handbook somewhere [02:14] svu: The advantage of being able to run a few 64-bit binaries if you really need them? [02:14] I was only half-kidding actually [02:14] svu: And just the obvious case that on your hardware, people are probably testing the 64-bit kernel codepath more than the 32-bit one. [02:14] Keybuk: nice, all I have is one on 6502 assembly [02:14] and you can actualy use your memory if you have it [02:14] infinity, :)) I see. I can run 64-bit binaries - but they are just not there in ubuntu:) [02:14] whomever came up with PAE on i386 should be shot, too [02:15] they should have just decided 'damnit, lets do something 64 bit' [02:15] svu: What specific binary did you want t obe 64-bit? Or is it just the principle of the thing? [02:15] rather than confusing the hell out of people who dont know how PAE works [02:15] a wild guess would be 40% or even 50% of all integer vars would fit in 16-bit containers [02:15] and thinking they can allocate over 4gb of memory [02:15] dieman: PAE is scary. [02:15] infinity: yes [02:16] infinity: you ever see the benchmarks that heanet.ie did with apache and pae? [02:16] infinity, well, just the principle. In particular, I wonder would all the build tools (autotools/gcc/ld/....) work faster if they were 64-bit. Also OOo [02:16] infinity: 4GB was about the same peformance as 12GB [02:16] infinity: but 32GB you'd actually be doing fairly well [02:16] svu: OOo definately not [02:16] svu: why would they be faster? [02:16] svu, they wouldn't. [02:16] infinity: (mostly acting as disk cache) === jobezone [n=Eduardo@a81-84-103-142.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:16] Keybuk, faster data operations? === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [02:16] autotools is written in shell/perl -- that'd be hauling twice as much around, so be half the speed [02:16] at that point, you'd be better off with a RAMSAN [02:17] svu: No, no, and no. And OOo won't even compile on 64-bit systems. [02:17] (though I think everyone is better off with RAMSAN) [02:17] svu: what makes you think 64-bit data operations are faster than 32-bit ones? [02:17] svu: doesn't matter one bit for small integers [02:17] infinity: we're lucky it compiles at all [02:17] infinity, ok, I see. [02:17] svu: unless you're dealing with >32-bit word sizes [02:17] HrdwrBoB: they've got way too much disk though, i think [02:17] HrdwrBoB: its not just for a few GB of files, its more like a few TB im guessing. [02:17] Keybuk, in SOME cases people use "long long", or even memcpy...? [02:17] svu: less cache hits, especially with OOo [02:18] HrdwrBoB: and i think they still use the apache disk cache module to pull popular files automatically to a striped raid [02:18] svu: you win some, but lose a lot from the larger instruction and data sizes [02:18] HrdwrBoB: and then an assload of ram for disk caching [02:18] 64-bit is basically useful for doing complex integer math [02:18] eg. SSL or MPEG or something [02:18] infinity, what about altivec extension? is it used by ubuntu? [02:18] Keybuk: Or hauling massive datasets around. === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:18] dieman: well.. damn! === DarkMageZ [n=DarkMage@ppp15-128.lns2.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:18] svu: just about the only thing it does make sense for by default is things like memcpy, and those are in glibc [02:19] HrdwrBoB: yah [02:19] Keybuk: Some SQL servers seem to win from being 64-bit (if you have massive tables and indexes) [02:19] Keybuk, ok, I see now... [02:19] yeah, that I can believe [02:19] Keybuk: But for most SQL usecases, 32-bit wins, so you really need to KNOW that you want 64-bit before you take the hit. [02:19] svu: ^^^^ [02:19] Chipzz, yeah, that's what I meant - massive memory operations [02:19] I always find it amusing that almost the only 64-bit app in Solaris 9 was "sort" [02:20] it was the only one that benefited [02:20] svu: As a general rule, if you think that a dedicated machine of some sort may benefit from having something specific recompiled (say, postgresql, for instance), we provide the tools for you to easily do that and benchmark. [02:21] svu: Down the road, we intend to have better multiarch support, so it'll be trivial for us to provide ppc64 versions of certain libraries and applications that you MAY want 64-bit. [02:21] svu: But, the general use cases for just about everything will show you that 32-bit wins. If 64-bit wins for you, you're an oddity. [02:21] svu: (ie: massive data warehousing, etc) [02:21] infinity, ok. I am not a gentoo person, I so I am not trying to squeeze every grain of performance - just trying to get a feeling, is there possible major win against the current arch... [02:21] infinity: but you can't mix 32 and 64-bits libraries anyway, right/ [02:21] ? [02:21] Chipzz: depends on the instruction set [02:22] I'm thinking calling conventions for one [02:22] Chipzz: Can't link both in the same memory space, no. (or, not worth trying) [02:22] infinity, ok. But I did not get the answer regarding the altivec extension? [02:22] svu: stuff like that is hand-coded assembly in most cases anyway [02:23] svu: altivec is orthogonal to the 32/64-bit thing, and where we can use it effectively, we do (mplayer autodetects altivec support and uses it, libssl has an altivec optimised version, IIRC, etc) [02:23] svu: altivec needs to be hand-coded, as Chipzz says [02:23] Chipzz, I know - so I am asking is there that kind of assembly somewhere in kernel or openssl or smth [02:23] Actually not positive about the libssl thing. Does powerpc have hwcap support? [02:23] there are hand-coded versions of a few things, yes [02:23] Kamion: not per se I think, but your compiler needs good support for it when you don't (which is only the case in recent gcc's) [02:24] ok, very very recent gcc can do automatic vectorisation [02:24] infinity, i know it is orthogonal, it was a separate question:) do you ship altivec-optimized mplayer or libssl? [02:24] no altivec code in openssl [02:25] svu: mplayer, yes. A quick look at my PPC system seems to show that we don't do hwcap on PPC, so we can't pull the "multiple optimised builds" trick that we do on i386. === jobezone [n=Eduardo@a81-84-103-142.cpe.netcabo.pt] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [02:26] infinity, heh:( BTW, would xorg opensource drivers benefit of altivec anyhow (2D/3D accel)? [02:26] svu: libssl doesn't do run-time capabilities detection, so enabling altivec there would result in a big SIGILL on systems like mine. [02:27] infinity, I see, so you would need plenty of libssl builds [02:27] svu: And glibc support for hwcap selection on powerpc (which appears to not exist, afaict) [02:27] (actually at some point RH provided different rpms for openssl for 386/586/686 IIRC) [02:27] no reason we can't do hwcap on powerpc [02:27] (See /usr/lib/i686/ on an i386 system, for instance) [02:28] Kamion: Nope, should be trivial, we just don't appear to do so. [02:28] 'strace id' shows us looking at stuff like /usr/lib/tls/ppc7450 [02:28] Kamion: Heck, I'm committing hwcap to m68k reasonably soon. [02:28] which looks like hwcappery to me [02:28] and there are hwcap defines for powerpc in glibc [02:28] Kamion: Oh. So PPC does have hwcap, and we just don't use it? Even better. [02:29] #define PPC_FEATURE_HAS_ALTIVEC 0x10000000 /* SIMD/Vector Unit. */ === infinity wonders why libssl isn't using it, then. [02:29] dunno what that corresponds to in terms of ld.so, mind === thierryn [n=thierry@modemcable199.142-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:29] Mayve libssl just has crap hand-tuning on PPC so no one cares. [02:29] so, we are talking about ... err tiny patch to libssl?:) [02:30] We're talking about a patch I don't much care about, since my system's a G3. :) [02:30] If you can convince someone with a whizzbang CPU to care more than I do, go nuts. [02:31] infinity, oops:)) === desrt recently gave away his G4 powerbook for the macbook upgrade [02:31] but i still have a cluster of G5s at work === svu would bye g5 quadro to infinity...:) [02:31] oh, actually, I think infinity's right and we don't have proper glibc support for hwcap on powerpc [02:31] s/bye/buy === nix4me [n=nix4me@49.104.207.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:31] there's no _dl_string_hwcap implementation for powerpc === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:32] Kamion: Hrm, but the strace above seemed to indicate otherwise... [02:32] Kamion: It could just be implemented differently. [02:32] yeah, dunno where that was coming from, I have a feeling it was something generic [02:33] at any rate I'm not seeing the linker touching /lib/altivec or anything here, which I'd expect === rpedro [n=rpedro@87-196-10-136.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:34] and the only matches for '"altivec"' in sysdeps are in .machine directives in assembly code, which aren't relevant === jinty [n=jinty@242.Red-83-49-54.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [02:35] ok, so it seems the only real use is mplayer... [02:35] thanks lads, you are just eye openers;) [02:36] and nobody watches *that* much porn to make it a serious benefit? :p [02:37] svu: I had tossed around the idea of buying a quad-core G5 at one point, but I weighed that against paying rent, and opted for the latter. [02:37] svu: If you want to send me one, I won't complain. [02:38] For now, the old 1GHz G3 is good 'nuff. === jdub_ [n=jdub@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:39] infinity, actually I won my dual G5 at linux-powerpc contest by IBM. I would never buy any mac from my pocket:) === dredg uses mac as desktop all the time [02:40] i end up not breaking it :) [02:40] svu; i tried to enter that contest and failed. [02:41] i use ubuntu quite a lot for work, but my machine tends to be broken a fair bit :) [02:41] desrt, I was lucky. My application just had to be "configure/make/make install"-ed - and it worked :) [02:41] so i use a mac for doing most things, and ssh when i need linux [02:41] crikey [02:41] i wrote an email to them saying "please let me port a compiler backend" and got rejected [02:41] or, more precisely, they never even replied === svu always felt shamelessly lucky about that contest === bur[n] er_ [n=burner@c-67-176-41-240.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:43] dredg, I am thinking about removing macos altogether - but not yet... [02:43] holy crap! === desrt wants to play chips challenge [02:44] anyone have chips.exe laying around? :) [02:44] oh yes. [02:44] /home/desrt/archives/old nt server/rlortie/bin/chips/CHIPS.EXE === nictuku [n=yves@ubuntu/member/nictuku] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:45] svu: i need one machine that works at all times, so i refuse to change/break/kill the OS on the machine :) === robertj [n=robertj@66-188-77-153.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:47] that ws NEAT! [02:47] wine CHIPS.EXE -> my machine instantly reboots [02:47] i'm pretty sure that's not supposed to be possible [02:48] isn't wine setuid root, or something crazy? [02:48] nope. [02:48] nor is wineserver [02:48] dredg, I have ubuntu for it:) [02:48] i think i've found a security problem [02:49] desrt: probably triggering kernel or X bugs, it's probably not unusual :) [02:49] desrt: likely wine crashed X, which runs as root [02:49] svu: right, the primary project i'm working on at the moment involves customising ubuntu for our users. if i put ubuntu on the mac i'd end up using it for testing or something :) [02:49] Keybuk; and caused the kernel to reboot? [02:49] i _need_ an unbroken machine :) [02:50] it's a slippery slope ;) [02:50] desrt: sure, X runs as root and does nasty things to the hardware [02:50] dredg, well, I am trying to balance between development of gnome and keeping relatively stable machine (which is also controlling my X10 stuff at home) [02:50] desrt: it's very easy to get X to crash the machine hard enough to reboot it [02:51] wrong. [02:51] it's a kernel bug === desrt just logged in via ssh with X forwarding and ran it [02:51] the ssh server rebooted [02:51] read: remote user can bring the sytem down [02:52] ssh server rebooted? [02:52] ssh servers don't reboot [02:52] the machine running the ssh server :p [02:52] it's a local root exploit [02:52] not a remote one [02:52] you ssh'd in with authorisation [02:52] there's plenty of those [02:52] heh. [02:53] i didn't say it was 'remote root' [02:53] it's probably not even local root [02:53] just DoS [02:53] svu: ow. good luck with that :) [02:54] dredg, thanks:) [02:55] and this week i get to work on a laptop cos i'm in santa monica. like fun, but subtly different :) === nexu is now known as nexu|ET === jdub [n=jdub@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:00] running under cedega freezes the system solid (but no reboot) === nexu|ET is now known as nexu === nexu is now known as nexu|ET [03:02] so is edgy open yet? :) [03:02] BenC; when do you think about this bug? [03:03] BenC; it's probably related to somethng weird like allowing userspace processes to manipulate the local descriptor table === j_ack [n=nico@p508DBE68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:04] BenC: needs an LP rollout in about two hours [03:05] desrt: which bug...I missed some context [03:05] BenC; i can reboot my system over ssh [03:05] are you not supposed to be able to do that? :) [03:06] i can do it from a normal user account just by running wine on an old windows game [03:06] ah, wine [03:06] wine is running as root? [03:06] no. i don't think so. === _mike_ [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:06] if it's not running as root, then that's a super serious bug [03:07] err, super serial [03:07] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/48769 [03:08] finding out more... [03:08] does it happen on console as well as over ssh? [03:09] it happens when i use X directly and with X forwarding over X [03:09] *over ssh [03:09] afaik wine won't run without having an X server somewhere [03:09] right [03:09] can you email me a copy of that game? [03:09] sure [03:09] or do you have a copy? [03:10] it happens with my totally unprivilged jail user too [03:10] so it's not likely to be something like accessing the soundcard in an odd way [03:10] I have wine running under amd64, so it may do something different [03:10] i already tried running it on my friends dapper (amd32) box and it doesn't crash [03:10] it does run in 32-bit mode, but the kernel's a bit different about it since it's emulation [03:11] i attached to the bug === desrt violates microsoft copyright via private bugs on launchpad :) [03:12] desrt: err, don't do that [03:12] seriously [03:12] surely this falls under fair use :p [03:12] no, it doesn't [03:13] is it possible to remove attachments? === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:15] damn. it kills my laptop too :( === desrt can't play chips anywhere [03:15] chips challenge? [03:15] rawr :( [03:15] u using wine from the dapper repos? [03:16] mhm. === imbrandon [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdub [n=jdub@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === DarkMageZXFce [n=DarkMage@ppp15-128.lns2.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:25] Hey === jinty [n=jinty@242.Red-83-49-54.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdub_ [n=jdub@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === DarkMageZ [n=DarkMage@ppp15-128.lns2.syd7.internode.on.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["dapper] === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdub_ [n=jdub@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:40] heya devs :) === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Toadstool is now known as ToadZzZztool === GmanAFK is now known as Gman === anselmolsm [n=anselmol@200-232-236-25.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel === santiagokq [n=santiago@200-55-110-172.dsl.prima.net.ar] has joined #ubuntu-devel === santiagokq [n=santiago@200-55-110-172.dsl.prima.net.ar] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [04:54] and then Caritas will soon be uttering, "ok, very very recent gcc can do automatic vectorisation" and "i know it is orthogonal, it was a separate question:) do you ship altivec-optimized mplayer or libssl?" to quote [04:54] crap [04:54] sorry guys [04:54] heh [04:56] :-) === j_ack [n=nico@p508DBE68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.6.109.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hendry [n=hendry@222.106.128.78] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jcole [n=jcole@palrel2.hp.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === bronson [n=bronson@pool-72-70-92-114.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tale_ [n=tale@cpe-024-088-253-167.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:37] I'm trying to compile eye of gnome from cvs, can somebody help me configure my environment? [05:40] tale_: no; this channel is about development OF ubuntu, not development WITH ubuntu [05:41] and you want apt-get build-dep eog [05:41] Chipzz: I'm trying to find some docs that help configure ubuntu for development [05:41] tale_: #gnome-love on gimp.net can help you with that [05:42] ok [05:42] I'll give it a try === stuNNed [n=lance@unaffiliated/stunned] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:01] mako: congratulations [06:05] where do the developers hang out to talk about developer stuff when not coordinating/ [06:05] ? [06:07] tale_: of GNOME or Ubuntu? === Huahua [n=hua_@221.172.50.116] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:09] whiprush_: thank [06:09] s [06:10] I see you wore the aviators for the wedding, heh. [06:10] mako: indeed, congrats you crazy married man [06:11] :) [06:13] hey mako [06:15] ajmitch: oi [06:19] oi? [06:20] oi means hello in portuguese === jasay [n=jasay@c-71-198-189-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [n=richard@C1500200.wl150.flinders.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === purserj [n=purserj@29.124.233.220.exetel.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dsas [n=dean@host86-128-54-0.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman is now known as GmanAFK === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:13] Launchpad will be going down in 20 minutes for its regular code update. Estimated down time is 10 minutes. === giftnudel_ [n=mb@p54A93048.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === giftnudel_ is now known as giftnudel === nomed [n=nomed@host190-58.pool8250.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === msikma [n=omega@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying-g4 [n=freeflyi@61.190.64.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-247-202.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:32] Good morning [08:33] morning pitti [08:33] hey pitti, can you take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxFAQ === mvo [n=egon@p54A669D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:35] pitti: specifically the 2nd part [08:35] hey mvo [08:36] morning mvo [08:37] Burgundavia: that second part is pretty unclear - and isnt exactly correct, IIRc === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:37] Hobbsee: it needs to be fixed. I banged it out, hence the request for review [08:38] ah firefox [08:38] that flagship application of the free software movement.. [08:38] Burgundavia: the idea is that ubuntu has security updates, and the minor versions of firefox are released due to their security fixes. feature-only upgrades arent included in that - that's my understanding of it anyway [08:38] mmm...lovely firefox :) [08:39] Hobbsee: yep, but we backport FF because moz has a broken security policy [08:39] true [08:39] good morning Burgundavia ajmitch [08:40] hi mvo === marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:47] hi Hobbsee === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B3447.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:49] hey dholbach [08:50] good morning! === herzi [n=herzi@c208079.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-62-245-208-121.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvoltage [n=jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pygi_ [n=pygi@83-131-237-252.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === screeb__ [n=seb@pons.rez-rennes.supelec.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rpedro [n=rpedro@87-196-46-150.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === theCore [n=alex@modemcable240.218-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === giftnudel [n=mb@p54A93048.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === giftnudel [n=mb@p54A93048.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@c211-28-181-26.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lukketto [n=Lukketto@host207-159.pool876.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kagou [n=kagou@84.5.173.22] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@242.Red-83-49-54.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:53] howdy all [09:53] finally with a good network connection. [09:53] hi sivang [09:53] hey pitti , 'sup? [09:54] hey sivang === sivang hugs Hobbsee === Hobbsee tries not to collapse on sivang [09:55] :P === j^ [n=j@adsl210.13.cyb.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:00] it's pretty quite the last couple of days, which is goo :-) === pvanhoof [n=pvanhoof@mailhost.newtec.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:02] sivang: because we're all working hard [10:04] ajmitch: nice, on specs? :) [10:04] & SoC [10:04] <- bugs === Lukketto [n=Lukketto@host207-159.pool876.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [10:05] bye all [10:05] ajmitch: ah right, how is Net Quth going ? === ajmitch is setting up kerberos & ldap by hand before moving on to automating it [10:05] bye Hobbsee === carlos [n=carlos@13.Red-88-15-198.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:06] sivang: going well enough, got plenty to work on :) [10:07] cool === sivang is off to write the next version's HUB spec === Lukketto [n=Lukketto@host207-159.pool876.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ajmitch should rewrite the selinux spec this week === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lukketto [n=Lukketto@host207-159.pool876.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === sivang actually goes back to finishing the u-devel backlog, only 1300 msgs to go === giftnudel [n=mb@p54A93048.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:19] sivang, finally ;) [10:20] pygi: I had terrible network problems yesterday [10:20] pygi: I've switched locations and am back to good [10:20] sivang, I know, don't worry :) === Aegir [n=richard@d58-104-10-217.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:24] sivang, you are writing to HomeBackupNg I suppose? === hunger [n=tobias@p54A615E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-103-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:29] pygi: I think I will just refresh the already existing spec page. -NG should be saved to the more featureful versoin. for edgy, it's okay to call it the same name, just this time make it with all the planned features that were planned for dapper. I will save the NG page for edgy+1 and take from there all the relevant ides for edgy version. [10:29] sivang, ah, ok === jono [n=jono@mail.openadvantage.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === olemke [n=olemke@iup.physik.uni-bremen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:20] morning sabdfl [11:21] hi there ajmitch === ubijtsa2 [n=ubijtsa@66.187.227.200] has joined #ubuntu-devel === heno [n=henrik@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ploum [n=ploum@ubuntu/member/ploum] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:36] sabdfl: when will we (=!Canonical) hear more about landscape?-) I can't wait.. === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:41] hey ajmitch, sabdfl [11:41] hi jono === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Daemon [n=NA@220-253-87-99.QLD.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:44] is there a list of languages supported on the desktop cd? [11:46] mdke: apt-cache show ubuntu-live [11:46] mdke, the manifest file ? === Fjodor [n=sune@0x55510b65.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:47] well.. apt-cache seems much better :) [11:48] The manifest is more correct (in the sense that it matches the ISO, while ubuntu-live chould change the next time we upload it), but checking ubuntu-live's depends was a nice lazy shortcut. :) [11:49] thanks infinity [11:49] argh, no italian [11:50] welsh, but no italian [11:50] mdke: its a crazy world [11:51] that is pretty crazy. Loads of ubuntu users in italy, no idea how many welsh, estonian, amharic, hindi users there are. Perhaps those language packs are just smaller [11:53] mdke: we sorted first by number of people speaking a language (the 'top 12'), then just alphabetically [11:54] pitti: number of people speaking a language in the worl, regardless of how large the linux/Ubuntu communities are? === ajmitch wonders if we'll get a newer PAM in edgy.. debian still carries 0.79 [11:55] looks like the version numbers took a huge jump after 0.81 [12:00] mdke: yes, it was the least subjective measure we could come up with at the time we defined it [12:00] Kamion: ping? [12:01] pitti: I can understand that, sure. It's a bummer for communities like -it with really large Ubuntu followings though. I don't really know what we can do to alleviate the problem either... there are some unofficial italian ISOs but obviously they aren't available from shipit. [12:03] mdke: that's precisely why we avoided introducing hard-to-measure numbers, to avoid discussions like '... but we are more important' [12:04] mdke: so we need an objective standard [12:04] mdke: maybe we should change it in future releases, from #people to the percentage of translated strings [12:04] Kamion: unping :) [12:06] mdke: that would mean to fit fewer langpacks on the CD, but might eventually be better, since bigger coverage usually means bigger community participation [12:06] mdke: and it could have the interesting side effect of challenge :) (translation rave to win the space on CD :) ) [12:07] we should kick gnome out, so we can put translations... for gnome :) [12:10] mjg59: are you coming to Paris? === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:11] fabbione: er, ok ;) [12:11] Kamion: thanks anyway .. i figured :) === \sh [n=shermann@xdsl-84-44-130-117.netcologne.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:14] pitti: hi [12:14] hey carlos [12:14] pitti: btw, if we are going for 1.2.1, do you think it's wise to enable snmp printer detection? [12:14] ivoks: no, not for -updates [12:14] pitti: i agree [12:14] ivoks: also, I think I rather backport fixes [12:14] pitti: could we schedule our voip call to talk about language packs for Universe? [12:15] pitti: I would like to have something already done before Paris [12:15] pitti: that's fine with me [12:15] carlos: voip doesn't work well here, let's use the normal phone [12:15] pitti: skype? [12:15] khm.. ekiga guys :) [12:15] carlos: no, I have too much latency over the chain of wireless networks here [12:15] carlos: I'll phone you [12:16] <\sh> pitti: getting rid of the printing problems? [12:16] pitti: no, don't worry, I could phone you using a voip gateway [12:16] so it's not so expensive [12:16] \sh: actully, there is only one printing problem [12:17] \sh: ... some :) at least we are about to kill bug 34112 [12:17] <\sh> ivoks: hehe :) you did read kurts next article about your package? ;) [12:17] \sh: nope [12:18] \sh: kde domain are offten broken, so i don't visit them :) [12:19] \sh: lol those packages aren't dapper 1.2.1 preview packages :) [12:20] <\sh> ivoks: you are famous now ;) [12:20] "add their own README.Canonical.gz"? [12:21] mdz: Nope [12:21] he has some issues that ubuntu and cups can't resolve :) === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.20.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:26] pitti: yeah I see all your points about the objective standard. I was just trying to figure out what communities who have been left out can do to provide localised CDs [12:28] lol, the black box while printing was a cups bug? and we bugged our prof + assistants at the university about it telling them they are too dumb to produce valid pdf files (they used powerpoint) ... [12:29] giftnudel: shall I add '* Fix printing of broken PowerPoint PDF files" into the changelog? :-P [12:29] hehe [12:29] giftnudel: seriously, it's more of a side effect [12:29]