[12:09] mdke, I like the former, myself, but then again, I am mad [12:10] Burgwork: books? [12:21] mdke, yep [12:21] Burgwork: yeah, mad :) [12:21] my brain is goo. We just have a 1 1/2 hr long meeting at work [12:48] I like books too [12:49] hmm, LaserJock [12:49] especially since I can read about computers without having to be on one [12:51] LaserJock, you can do a book even if we drop books === mdke dives into the Forum Document Storage Facility debate again [12:53] waahooo [12:53] where? [12:53] mdke, where is that? [12:54] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1104384 [12:54] hmm, and I was thinking of suggesting a move away from using the wiki for docs [12:55] is anyone from the UDSF here? [12:56] doesn't look like it :/ [12:57] KingBahamut hangs out hin here [01:01] LaserJock, why would you suggest a move away? [01:01] we need a merging and if the wiki can offer us docbook, I don't see any reason why we would want to move away [01:02] because I'm just not seeing the point, I guess [01:02] the point of what? webediting? [01:02] wiki seems great for quick and dirty collaboration === linuxmonkey [n=linuxmon@unaffiliated/LinuxMonkey] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:02] LaserJock: maybe then we would not need ALL contributors to be good at docbook [01:03] but I just don't see it as a very good help system [01:03] we can do more agressive ACL's when it comes down to release time [01:03] maybe get some hacking to do frozen pages for release [01:03] linuxmonkey wants to write documentation for us :) [01:03] :) [01:04] if people knew what they were doing and how there writing affected other pages [01:04] but it just doesn't seem to have any flow or structure, to me [01:04] because it gets ignored [01:04] if it was the primary place we wrote, it would be a very different place [01:04] ive been fixing stuff on the wiki and want to help with docs too for kubuntu :) [01:05] I've just been getting the impression that we have outgrown our wiki [01:05] uhh [01:05] it seems like a complete mess [01:05] linuxmonkey: we are in the midst of "brainstroming" [01:05] see my previous point [01:05] anyways, i need tp run now :). later [01:05] but that is my point [01:06] brainstorming on any specific subject [01:06] Burgwork: it doesn't seem like we have enough resources to make it better [01:06] don't have, I mean [01:06] you don't ignore a dog for a while and then wonder why it has mange and piddles on the carpet [01:06] we need to get the whole community involved [01:07] hopefully focusing things on help.u.c will help [01:07] I'm stoked [01:07] Burgwork: but how is it being ignored? People are using it all the time, a lot of our conversation as a team is about wiki material [01:07] yes, but how much are we actually fixing it? [01:07] right [01:07] if the doc team was teh major editor, leadership would created better docs [01:08] currently most of the edits come from people who we don't know [01:08] right [01:08] we also have a major communication issue on the wiki [01:08] yes [01:09] but I'm wondering how we propose to fix these issues [01:09] but that can be solved through begging for money/time/developers from mark :0 [01:09] :0 [01:09] :), even [01:09] I think that docs/wiki should have a section for non specific display manager (No matter the display manager this would pertain to all) and then a section for each individual other like gnome, kde and such, instead of having stuff mixed on the same pages [01:09] linuxmonkey, we try and make it as non-specific as possible [01:09] can you give us a specific example? [01:10] hehe yeah look at wiki for RestrictedFormats [01:10] that is quite non-specific [01:10] main one that pops into my head [01:10] restrictedformats needs an ACL, to be honest [01:10] there is no need for many random people to be editing that page [01:11] yeah but the issue is that theres alot of stuff in there thats Ubuntu specific and then stuff thats kubuntu specific [01:11] yep [01:11] I would welcome concrete proposals on how to deal with it [01:11] and users get mixed up [01:11] it is a known issue [01:11] s/I/we [01:12] sorry if I am being abrupt. I got subjected to a useless meeting today at work and am tired about lack of "concrete proposals" [01:12] s/l/we? take my appologies but what does that mean [01:12] it means replace "I" with "we" in his previous message [01:13] ah [01:13] man, that page is huge === mdke sleeps [01:14] things like shockwave need to be split out [01:15] good night mdke [01:15] night mdke [01:15] I'd love to see using some sort of namespace for the different releases [01:15] exactly [01:15] but I'm not sure how practical it is [01:16] well it would take a bit more server space but be easyer for support [01:19] I think the most difficult part is having people decide when something is specific to a release or not [01:19] it would be hell to maintain, given that most things are the same over all releases === mdke doesn't sleep! [01:19] I'm just really struggling with structure right now, and I'm tired [01:20] but I have another 5hrs before I get to go home [01:21] I have high hopes for the new help.u.c wiki [01:21] I realize it is a good building block [01:22] so how does one become an official member of the doc team [01:22] you work where we can see your contribution [01:23] hang out with us, and bribes certainly should help ;-) [01:23] linuxmonkey, for the wiki team, simply edit some wiki pages and apply. For the doc team, patches to our svn repo [01:23] wiki ..already edited quite a few pages [01:24] and for doc. reading the getting started section [01:24] linuxmonkey, if you apply, create a wiki page with a list of contributions and have that linked from the LP page [01:25] wiki page allready created [01:25] cool [01:25] lmao [01:25] hmm? [01:25] Linuxmonkey [01:30] anyways i got to go cook supper, ttyl === ghee22 [n=Parag@26.muh33.nycm.n54ny31ur.dsl.att.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:33] hey, the storage facility has some good stuff. [01:33] we need to get these two groups working together *grits teeth* [01:34] http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/AppHelper [01:34] http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Terminology [01:34] isn't USDF pd? [01:34] I think we can take as needed [01:35] I think if we take a proactive approach to porting stuff, we will be good [01:35] in theory yes, but I don't know whether they have the right to pd it, having taken much material from the forum [01:35] isn't the forum PD? [01:35] I think you might be right about that [01:35] porting things might be a good way to bring things closer [01:36] take small steps and so on [01:36] mere aggregation of data, like that first one is clearly not copyrightable [01:36] try and convince the storage center contributors/admins that collaborating is absolutely an option [01:36] if we put a link at the bottom of all pages "Now been ported. See h.u.c/X" [01:36] that might get the idea [01:37] if they are up for that, yeah [01:37] I would just do it, guerilla style === Burgwork really needs to blow of steam somehow right now [01:37] oh dear [01:37] well don't go alienating half the community while I'm asleep, dear === mdke recommends karate [01:39] damn, so annoying that the Ubuntu servers aren't resolving my domain right [01:40] my email is going to the wrong place and planet isn't getting my blog [01:40] >_< [01:46] darn it, I'm trying to figure out whether I should print out a 288 book or not [01:48] bah, I'm sure my boss won't mind :-) === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ghee22 [n=Parag@26.muh33.nycm.n54ny31ur.dsl.att.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:03] mdke, yes, mdke [02:06] mdke, or should I say, mom ;) [02:06] hehe === ghee22 [n=Parag@26.muh33.nycm.n54ny31ur.dsl.att.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:37] hi Madpilot [03:37] hi === nixternal [n=nixterna@71.194.189.213] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burglaptop [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:07] oh geez I am glad we are moving to our own wiki [04:07] look at what Jriddel just did [04:07] where? [04:08] on the wiki [04:08] KubuntuXGL [04:08] heh === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:17] oi, jsgotangco [04:17] jsgotangco! [04:18] LaserJock: you are working on teh Userful stuff? [04:18] not this minute [04:18] hi! long time no see! [04:18] I had to take care of some research today [04:19] ah [04:19] no worries [04:19] I am just trying to prevent Tim from breathing down my neck [04:19] I think his timeline is definately doable [04:19] he is going to be in town on Thursday, so I have to deal with him in person [04:19] LaserJock: are you good at bzr? [04:20] umm, I can use it, usually [04:20] what do you need [04:20] Burglaptop: I feel for you, really. [04:20] tbbbhhh... [04:20] LaserJock: on bzr viz, what does a yellow branch indicate? [04:20] and a green one as well [04:21] hmm, I've never done viz before [04:21] ahh === jsgotangco goes to #bzr [04:21] sorry [04:22] ah wait i understand it now [04:22] from head someone branched then it was merged [04:22] but the branch continued to work on his own [04:22] then it got merged again [04:22] ahh [04:23] what are you working on? [04:23] im looking at the history of hwdb client [04:23] ah, ok [04:23] going to be working on it [04:23] ? [04:24] well not really, [04:24] ahhhh [04:24] just started branching from ogra's bzr archives [04:24] jsgotangco: do you have to install something besides bzr to get bzr viz [04:24] I want some hwdb/laptop/server testing love [04:24] LaserJock: bzrk [04:24] ah, right [04:25] Burglaptop: atm i think the hardware identifier is random, hence its possible to have multiple entries of the same hardware [04:25] yep, taht is an issue [04:25] hmm, md5 sum of something? [04:26] yes very much [04:26] I think hwdb will get lots of love in edgy [04:26] massaging the current data is not that hard [04:26] if you md5 summed a specific piece of hardware, it should work [04:26] maybe login account would be better [04:26] let the user choose the machine themselves [04:27] you mean let the user create a hw profile [04:27] ? [04:27] that lists his entries? [04:28] we should make them sign up on LP, report at least 2 bugs, and pass an Ubuntu IQ test before that though ;-) [04:28] yep, and tie their hardware profile to their LP name [04:29] i could make a mockup in glade [04:29] you could. I hate glade [04:29] really clunky to use [04:30] oh wow, bzr viz is neato [04:30] is it some gtk boog? [04:31] yeah [04:31] it was obviously inspired by git === Burglaptop observes that the weather is great and he really should mow the lawn [04:33] nahh.. [04:35] jsgotangco: you think I should write out a plan for RestrictedFormats and get feedback or just dive into it? [04:35] Burglaptop: do u know if libdvdread3 can be installed with any package manager app or do you have to use apt-get [04:36] yes, it can, but then the issue of the isntall script for the css part [04:36] thats easy [04:36] just have to tell them to run that command [04:36] still needs to be run in a terminal [04:36] true [04:37] so are we gonna have a seperate wiki or still using ubuntu's, whats the direction were taking [04:38] the documentation is being moved off, any day now [04:38] so what exact;y does that mean? [04:39] anything in CatDoc is being moved to help.ubuntu.com [04:39] still in wiki format? [04:39] yep, to another moin wiki [04:39] same editing, etc. [04:40] Burglaptop: i am not sure, people who refer/use RestrictedFormats is quite diverse in their opinion as well [04:40] Burglaptop: im gonna edit the dvd section and let me know how i did [04:40] linuxmonkey: uhh, wait up a sec [04:40] uh ok [04:40] honestly, can you find another page to edit? [04:41] possibly [04:41] not to be rude, but RestrictedFormats needs a light touch, due to how heavily trafficed it is [04:41] ive edited it befor [04:41] lol [04:41] yep, and so have I [04:41] in fact, there are too many people editing it [04:41] we really need to ACL it [04:41] fixed other peoples mistakes is what I kept fixing [04:41] that we do [04:42] ok, my laptop has absolute shite for battery life [05:03] and like that he is gone...right as i finish ;) [05:04] nixternal: I am never gone [05:04] lol [05:04] Burglaptop is also Burgundavia is also Burgwork [05:04] where there is one, there is many [05:04] i kinda figured that...but it is like you went to sleep with lappy ;) [05:05] yes, laptop has crap battery life [05:05] as i do more, i will continue adding them to my wiki Burgundavia...now as i do anything, im adding it to my notepad as i work..this way here i can keep track..which is what i should have done from the get go === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:05] ok cool [05:05] oh..i know about crappy battery life..i need a new battery as a matter of fact [05:06] so CatDoc is heading over to help.ubuntu.com...how much are the changes going to impact the current wiki setup? [05:07] the whole catdoc is moving [05:07] redirects left in their place [05:07] so a search on the old direct will lead you to a redirect then..ok..that works [05:07] yep [05:07] so anyone currently linked to a wiki page won't be screwed then..that is cool === Burgundavia cleans up Jriddels mess [05:08] i thought my bookmarks were in for it there for a second ;) [05:08] lol...i was cracking up when you went after him on that one === neeto [n=neeto_@i222-150-170-45.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:08] Burgundavia: what exactly did he do wrong there, so I am not to recreate an instance similar to that? === neeto [n=neeto_@i222-150-170-45.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [05:09] nixternal: what do you mean? [05:09] he did something you didn't like with the KubuntuXGL [05:10] he did not consider namespace collisions [05:10] i don't want to follow that example [05:10] ahhh..ok [05:10] people searching for how to install XGL would come across his spec [05:10] pretty much the largest reason we are moving the docs off [05:11] that is good to know [05:11] what is the outcome going to be for wiki.ubuntu.com? will it eventually go away, used for something else? [05:11] nope, it will stay what is used for now: internal Ubuntu communication and specs [05:12] ok...great..i am looking at help.ubuntu.com now..i should have done that from the get go...it makes more sense to me now [05:12] yep [05:13] it has been a hard slog for other people to see what you just did === Burgundavia goes to install hoary [05:13] hehe [05:13] have fun installing [05:14] need it for doc purposes [05:14] true..need to keep that going...especially since a lot of people jumped to Dapper here recently [05:14] are you going to do an upgrade? [05:15] no, just to see how things are done [05:15] you're going to do a real install? [05:15] yep [05:16] have fun then :-) [05:16] i did a warty install before just for nostalgia [05:16] doing it now [05:17] I've never installed warty, I came to Ubuntu when Hoary was just about released [05:17] ok just edit another page for the better [05:17] :) [05:17] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuArtwork <--fixed the top of the page :) [05:17] i gotta go [05:17] see you guys later [05:18] are we moving non-english docs? mdke? [05:19] Burgundavia: check that out and tell me if you like it better, its all equal now and not allover the place :) [05:19] linuxmonkey: looks good [05:19] check the before and after, quite a difference I find [05:20] yep [05:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxHowTo <-- should I just kill this? [05:21] id vote yes on killing [05:22] but i dont have a official vote yet...lol [05:24] Burgundavia: + [05:24] Burgundavia: +1 [05:24] nice numlock ;) [05:24] lol [05:24] wireless keyboard...i can't tell if it is on or not until i use it ;) [05:27] Burgundavia, doesn't look like anyone's done anything substantial to it since it was imported from the new wiki. I'd vote for nuking it. [05:28] From orbit, because that's the only way to be sure. ;) [05:28] do we need a guide on how to install extensions, etc? [05:28] and the how and why or our security policy? [05:29] what's an extension? ;) <-- not a Firefox user [05:29] nor am I [05:29] I will rewrite it [05:30] Burgundavia: how about that wiki team [05:30] linuxmonkey: have you applied to join? [05:31] thats what I wanted to know how to [05:31] i asked around earlyer [05:31] hmm, I don't see you [05:31] apply to join [05:32] i wouldn't think so Burgundavia on firefox extensions...because all you do is click the "install now" and restart firefox [05:33] linuxmonkey: quit following me ;) [05:33] lmao [05:33] well, we need a doc to explain Ubuntu security policy as well [05:33] u followed me over..I thought I had clicked the join team..lol [05:34] hmm, I don't see an email [05:35] oh, wait there you are [05:35] approved [05:35] ty :) [05:35] I feel loved [05:35] linuxmonkey: it is nice to use your realname in LP and on the wiki [05:35] don't get used to it ;0 [05:35] ;), rather [05:35] the only thing i could see of importance to the firefox wiki, would be the fixes for kde concerning the nsFilePicker.js and the FILEPICKER_CONTRACTID fix [05:36] I feel that using a fake name could hinder future involvment with kubuntu and other projects of open source [05:36] all that really does is give you the kde feeling when you do file>open really [05:38] Burgundavia: I know other teams get custom hostmask on irc is this the case for the wikiteam as well [05:39] for /member/ubuntu/Burgundavia ? [05:39] for that you need to be an Ubuntu memeber [05:39] ok cool [05:39] linuxmonkey, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto if you're interested [05:41] yeah i read that, i'll hold off on that for bit till I get more edits under my belt [05:42] you generally need to do more than just wiki stuff for membership - other docs, help in IRC/the forums, etc [05:43] yeah i help in #kubuntu all the time too [05:44] and did some artwork too [05:44] cool [05:44] that all helps towards membership [05:44] are you on the Docteam mailing list, linuxmonkey? [05:45] anyways for the wiki do we have an agenda on LP? [05:46] im on the docs mailing list [05:46] is there a seperate list for us? [05:46] no [05:48] uggh, more stubs [05:48] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VLC [05:49] lol [05:49] opinions? [05:49] lol not much there now..lol [05:50] it was created with intent for one of us to edit I guess [05:50] Death to stubs, esp. ones for obscure media players [05:51] Madpilot: can you deal with HowCome > [05:51] ? [05:51] UbuntuHowCome? [05:52] yep [05:52] got something for me :) [05:52] CategoryCleanup is full of them [05:53] some of the holes in that doc I don't know enough to fill - startup details of Ubuntu/Canonical, etc. I'll have another look at it, though [05:53] ok cool [05:53] Madpilot: pass it on to Jane Silber for review [05:54] assuming she has any free time at all :) [05:54] it is post-release right now though [05:54] now is a good time [05:55] yeah [05:55] now is also a good time for me to go shopping. Back later. [05:56] lol [05:57] Burgundavia: ok so most stuff in the cleanup need to be redone? what if its a partial dupe from another wifi [05:58] linuxmonkey: Cleanup means it needs some work [05:58] bad style, incorrect commands, incomplete [05:58] ok cool [05:59] once its fixed do I remove it from the cleanup class [05:59] pass it by me first [06:00] ok and if it has screenshots is there a place were we can upload those? [06:01] to intarweb silly [06:01] ;) [06:01] no, as attachments === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:04] ok this is gonna sound dumb but how do I do that Ive never had to do attachments before and dotn see a button for it [06:06] drop down menu [06:08] ok for some reason i got no drop down in konq [06:08] gonna have to use firefox [06:10] Burgundavia: what browser do u use [06:10] epiphany [06:11] you like it? [06:11] love it [06:12] so your on gnome? [06:13] nothing else [06:13] ah. lol im currently on KDE [06:15] i sort of want to get both on here [06:15] lol === jbu [n=jbusam@60-240-46-161.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:18] im out for the night guys, ttyl [06:20] cya [06:20] its 1:20 AM and I work at 9AM [06:20] lol I havent slept in about 48 hours [06:21] you are nuts === Burgundavia grumbles at hoary [06:27] my wired nic is not going to work and madwifi is borked for some reason === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jbu [n=jbusam@60-240-46-161.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Ex-Chat"] === dsas [n=dean@host86-128-54-0.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:46] robitaille: do you figure it is even worth seeing if skype installs on Hoary? [07:06] wow, breezy takes about twice as long to install as hoary [07:08] Burgundavia: I think it is a waste of time... [07:08] ya, me too [07:09] going to test breezy though [07:21] launchpad is going down in 10 minutes for maintenance === ghee22 [n=Parag@26.muh33.nycm.n54ny31ur.dsl.att.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:25] hey ghee22 === lastnode__ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ic56 [n=ic@CPE0080c6e96fe2-CM000a73a108f3.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:49] here, I'm back. [07:50] hi [07:50] Writing comments in a script. Do I say "GNOME menu bar> Places> Computer", or "top panel> Places> Computer", or just "Places> Computer"? [07:50] the last [07:52] ic56: why are you not in #ubuntu-ca ? [07:52] One vote for the short answer. Anyone else? [07:53]