[12:11] <kmon> good night everyone
[01:26] <bddebian> Hello
[01:27] <doelman> hi
[01:27] <bddebian> Hello doelman
[01:27] <doelman> Hello bddebian
[01:29] <doelman> how are u bddebian?
[01:30] <bddebian> OK, thanks yourself?
[01:30] <doelman> i'm ok too, thanx
[01:32] <doelman> i like this splash screen http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=26888
[01:33] <bddebian> That's wild
[01:33] <doelman> it's very cool
[01:33] <doelman> animated etc
[01:33] <doelman> it's in kubuntu dapper
[01:33] <doelman> default
[01:33] <doelman> not set as default splash but its in
[01:33] <doelman> brb
[01:34] <imbrandon> yea its used in backtrack distro too with a walpaper that go's with it
[01:34] <imbrandon> by default
[01:36] <doelman> backtrack?
[01:36] <doelman> there's also a kdm theme like that
[01:41] <doelman> g2sleep
[01:41] <doelman> bye all
[03:03] <Riddell> tvo: I've added a spell checking module to katapult, but there's a crash after running the configure dialogue, if you have any ideas what's causing that it would be great
[03:15] <Riddell> (in KDE SVN)
[03:16] <kwwii> Riddell: why does katapult not show all of the installed programs? is it using the menu .desktop files?
[03:18] <kwwii> anyway...kinda late for me...going back to sleep now
[03:20] <Riddell> kwwii: yes, it uses the XDG menu
[03:20] <Riddell> so it's translated too
[04:54] <nixternal> we need to come up with that Kubuntu doc/wiki team quick...im install Ubuntu Breezy and Hoary on a lappy to rewrite some how-to's...im afraid of gnome ;)
[04:57] <robotgeek> nixternal: isnt it a bit late for Hoary :)
[05:00] <nixternal> hahaha
[05:00] <nixternal> you seen what he wants robotgeek...gotta do orinoco for hoary ;)
[05:00] <robotgeek> lol
[05:00] <freeflying|away> robotgeek: hi
[05:00] <robotgeek> hey freeflying|away , how goes it?
[05:01] <freeflying|away> robotgeek: so so, do we have a FAQ for end users?
[05:02] <robotgeek> freeflying|away: a FAQ? nope
[05:03] <freeflying|away> robotgeek: we prepare a infobot in irc channel for answer questions
[05:04] <robotgeek> freeflying|away: ah, nice. we don't have a faq, but we can cut copy paste some from desktop guide
[05:05] <freeflying|away> robotgeek: ya, I forget we have a great desktopguide,  :)
[05:05] <robotgeek> freeflying|away: now also in chinese :)
[05:05] <freeflying|away> robotgeek: true, heh
[05:13] <nixternal> Hobbsee: good morning, afternoon, and evening
[05:13] <robotgeek> howdy Hobbsee , long time
[05:13] <nixternal> OMG the Ubuntu Hoary install splash is foooooogly
[05:14] <nixternal> how times have changed
[05:14] <Hobbsee> hey nixternal and robotgeek 
[05:14] <Hobbsee> i definetly should not have come to the meeting yesterdya!
[05:15] <nixternal> lol
[05:15] <Hobbsee> no!  please tell me i dont have to go into uni...please tell me i dont have to hand this prac in...
[05:15] <nixternal> should i file a hoary bug..it locks my laptop up at "Loading /install/vmlinuz..
[05:15] <nixternal> lol
[05:15] <robotgeek> lol
[05:19] <imbrandon> lol
[05:19] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
[05:19] <Hobbsee> hey imbrandon '
[05:20] <Hobbsee> darn  i do have to go into uni today - back in a few hours...
[05:20] <Hobbsee> wish i'd submitted the prac yesterday when i was there!
[05:21] <imbrandon> heh
[05:21] <imbrandon> see ya l8tr Hobbsee
[06:09] <nixternal> ewww..i gotta brown screen on my lappy ;)
[06:14] <imbrandon> yuriy: connetion probs ;)
[06:15] <nixternal> anyone direct me to the kismet.deb file so i can dl it for hoary?  it isn't in the repos for hoary...or could you link me to the repo to add...pretty please
[06:15] <imbrandon> packages.ubuntu.com 
[06:16] <nixternal> im using ubuntu hoary right now on my laptop
[06:16] <nixternal> diry color scheme ;)
[06:17] <nixternal> thx imbrandon on that..found the location
[06:17] <yuriy> imbrandon: yeah, sorry 'bout all those messages^
[06:17] <imbrandon> yuriy: np i was just rasin ya a bit
[07:19] <kkathman> I'd lke to verify a problem that I seem to be having, and maybe one of you might could steer me in the proper direction...I believe there is a bug on the KDE panel logic.
[07:20] <kkathman> This particular issue does not exist in KDE on other distributions, so I think it might be a kubuntu glitch
[07:27] <kkathman> well ok
[07:27] <kkathman> lol
[10:01] <Hobbsee> hey all
[10:01] <freeflying|away> hey Hobbsee 
[10:01] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:03] <freeflying|away> Hobbsee: when will next meeting be?
[10:03] <Hobbsee> freeflying|away: 26th
[10:03] <Hobbsee> 2100UTC, i assume
[10:04] <Hobbsee> or something around here
[10:04] <Hobbsee> hmmm...
[10:09] <nixternal> Hobbsee: good whatever time of the day it is ;)
[10:09] <Hobbsee> nixternal: not at my 7am, if i'm to vote on anything complex.  otherwise the current time is a great time :P
[10:10] <nixternal> hehe
[10:10] <nixternal> i have a small problem with it ever functioning ;)
[10:11] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:11] <nixternal> i have been messing with 3 versions of Ubuntu...so much Ubuntu my eyes have turned brown...i need the blue bad ;)
[10:12] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:12] <Hobbsee> which 3?
[10:12] <nixternal> hoary, breezy, and dapper
[10:13] <nixternal> sneezy, grumpy, and doc
[10:13] <nixternal> hehe
[10:14] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:14] <Hobbsee> hoary ubuntu is scary.
[10:14] <Hobbsee> the next question is "why?"
[10:14] <nixternal> orinoco wifi howto's and you name it
[10:14] <Hobbsee> ah i see...
[10:14] <nixternal> after i did that though...we come to the conclusion that we weren't gonna do hoary
[10:14] <nixternal> hehe
[10:14] <Hobbsee> hoary isnt supported for that much longer...
[10:14] <Hobbsee> :P
[10:15] <nixternal> so now im working on installing breezy
[10:15] <Hobbsee> till october sometime
[10:15] <nixternal> 6 months longer i think
[10:15] <nixternal> ya
[10:16] <Hobbsee> 5
[10:16] <Hobbsee> i think
[10:16] <nixternal> close ;)
[10:16] <nixternal> 4
[10:16] <Hobbsee> :P
[10:16] <nixternal> october
[10:16] <Hobbsee> 7?
[10:16] <nixternal> lol
[10:16] <nixternal> it is june right?
[10:17] <nixternal> i haven't crawled out of my puter dungeon in a long tim e
[10:17] <Hobbsee> yes, because dapper is released.
[10:17] <Hobbsee> therefore, it has to be past june
[10:17] <nixternal> true
[10:17] <Hobbsee> and seeing as there's not much, if anything, in edgy yet, it cant be july.
[10:17] <nixternal> edgy is still a small shimmer of light up ahead
[10:18] <Hobbsee> gah!  darn it!  i *didnt* have to go into uni today to hand this prac in!
[10:18] <nixternal> you should have seen chavo in #kubuntu tonight...simply amazing...he pretty much ran the channel and gave a straight up kubuntu-xgl tutorial step by step with everyone following along
[10:19] <nixternal> hahah Hobbsee...thats how it always works
[10:19] <nixternal> when you don't have to go in you do
[10:19] <Hobbsee> nixternal: wow - did he stick it on the wiki?
[10:19] <nixternal> you know what...he needs to get poked to do that
[10:19] <Hobbsee> grr...why does kdesktop like crashing?  must be that kopete bug...
[10:19] <Hobbsee> chavo: ping
[10:19] <nixternal> i am waiting to hear from imbrandon on the success of that one
[10:19] <nixternal> how does it crash?
[10:20] <nixternal> my stuff doesn't crash
[10:20] <nixternal> i love it...i have invincble machines i guess
[10:20] <Hobbsee> you cant right click, and delete/copy/paste/whatever on the desktop
[10:20] <nixternal> really
[10:20] <nixternal> i don't have anything on my desktop..so i wouldn't know
[10:20] <Hobbsee> yeah - apparently it's from kopete
[10:20] <nixternal> let me create something and see if i can delete it
[10:20] <nixternal> and i have kopete running
[10:21] <nixternal> i just did and had no problem
[10:21] <Hobbsee> it only seems to happen sometimes...i dont know
[10:21] <nixternal> i don't think you can use me for bug testing...cuz it seems i never get them
[10:22] <nixternal> my computers take penecillin...im sure thats not even close to being correctly spelled
[10:22] <Hobbsee> that's what usually happens here
[10:23] <nixternal`zzz> well..it is that time
[10:23] <nixternal`zzz> my forehead hits the keyboard one more time im goin' to the hospital
[10:23] <nixternal`zzz> Hobbsee it has been fun, have a great day...im off to bed
[10:23] <nixternal`zzz> g'nite
[10:23] <Hobbsee> night
[10:23] <Hobbsee> hehe
[11:04] <Hobbsee> chavo: ping?
[11:04] <chavo> Hobbsee, hi
[11:05] <Hobbsee> chavo: i hear you did a good howto on kubuntu and xgl earlier?
[11:05] <chavo> well for nvidia sure
[11:05] <Hobbsee> chavo: is it on the wiki?
[11:05] <chavo> there's a lot of them out there
[11:06] <chavo> I'm not sure about the wiki, but there are a few at ubuntuforums
[11:07] <Hobbsee> chavo: if you feel like it, it'd be really cool if you could collate what's there, and stick it on the wiki - and add bits from whatever you had earlier today, which i heard was very good :)
[11:07] <Hobbsee> chavo: there seems to be a lot of questions about xgl, but few answers for kubuntu
[11:07] <Hobbsee> feel like changing it?
[11:07] <chavo> that's a good idea, a lot of the info out there is out of date also
[11:07] <chavo> sure I'll do it
[11:08] <Hobbsee> :)
[11:08] <Hobbsee> chavo: know how to add stuff to the bot?  a !kxgl factoid would be good, and/or modifying the !xgl factoid to include the kubuntu stuff as well :)
[11:09] <chavo> yeah I was just thinkng of that myself
[11:10] <Hobbsee> :D
[11:13] <Hobbsee> morning Riddell 
[11:20] <mornfall> Hobbsee: where do you see Riddell?
[11:20] <Hobbsee> mornfall: #ubuntu-meeting
[11:20] <mornfall> aha :-)
[11:25] <Riddell> thanks Hobbsee :)
[11:25] <Hobbsee> Riddell: :)
[11:26] <Hobbsee> Riddell: seems that it's becomming a habit for people to wake late, after the kubuntu meeting.  I woke up at 1pm today :P
[11:26] <Riddell> well I woke up at my normal time, I just never got the e-mail about the meeting
[11:27] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:33] <Riddell> \sh: we can't let red hat beat us on pyqt4 inclusion :) https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=190189
[12:33] <Ubugtu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 190189 in Package Review "Review Request: PyQt4: Python bindings for Qt4" [Normal,New: ]  
[12:33] <Hobbsee> Riddell: go Riddell go!  put it in :P
[12:35] <Riddell> it needs to be packaged first :)
[12:36] <Riddell> I suppose I could just run that RPM through alien :)
[12:37] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:39] <mornfall> Riddell: ah-hahaha
[12:40] <mornfall> Riddell: when is ubuntu going to ship selinux by default?
[12:41] <Riddell> mornfall: good question, ubuntu-hardened I believe has had a troubled history
[12:41] <Riddell> mornfall: but see http://lwn.net/Articles/186519/
[12:44] <mornfall> it's somewhat sad that fedora is shipping most of this already
[12:46] <seaLne> Riddell: did you see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2385 was just a simple upgrade and works fine
[12:47] <Riddell> seaLne: I was hoping to wait for edgy to open before worrying about packages but I guess the ETA of 2 hours never happened
[12:47] <Riddell> I'll look at it now
[12:47] <mornfall> how's edgy status btw?
[12:47] <seaLne> well edgy exists in the archive sort of
[12:47] <Hobbsee> hehe.  sort of.
[12:48] <seaLne> you can change your sources and they work fine
[12:49] <Riddell> guess nobody has been subscribed to edgy-chages unlike last times
[12:50] <seaLne> sebas: you don't by any chance have a docking station with your t60 do you? it dosen't seem easy to get working
[12:50] <sebas> seaLne: Yes, I don't.
[12:50] <seaLne> :P
[12:51] <seaLne> thanks anyway
[12:51] <sebas> You're welcome :)
[12:51] <seaLne> if it was my laptop i'd be upset about the fact that i hadn't got it even after a month of it arriving, luckily its not :)
[12:52] <sebas> It took a month for me as well, I think the keyboard needed to be backordered.
[12:52] <sebas> I knew that in advance though.
[12:54] <Riddell> seaLne: did you check the debian k3b package to see if they have anything newer than 0.12.14-0?
[12:55] <Riddell> yes, looks like they have .15-2
[12:56] <Riddell> it's worth grabbing that and merging their changes since we last synced, including changelogs
[12:56] <seaLne> Riddell: yeah i looked at it but they hadn't changed anything that i could see and it would have been confusing i thought to called it -1ubuntu1 if it didn't inherit?
[12:57] <Riddell> seaLne: no that's useful, it means we know when they last sync was
[12:57] <Riddell> even if the sync is nothing by merging the changelog
[12:58] <seaLne> i'm confused about how debian is patching it as there are no patches but when you apply the diff things get changed?
[01:01] <Riddell> oh yuck, they're patching it directly in the .diff.gz
[01:02] <Riddell> which has ben highly discouraged for years
[01:02] <seaLne> yeah i'd never seen it before
[01:02] <mornfall> define "highly discouraged"
[01:02] <seaLne> lots of sweary words to describe it?
[01:03] <Riddell> mornfall: no sane person has done it this millenium
[01:03] <seaLne> trying to compare diffs between different versions was impossible for me
[01:04] <Riddell> seaLne: however the changes are probably all good even if the patch mechanism isn't, you probably need to extract the changes from the debian .diff.gz into patches in debian/patches
[01:04] <seaLne> ok i'll have another look at it then
[01:04] <Riddell> thanks
[01:05] <mornfall> maybe the debian maintainer uses a RCS?
[01:06] <mornfall> there seems to be a pkg-k3b project on alioth
[01:06] <mornfall> but alioth seems to be uncooperative
[01:06] <Riddell> "* Fix Ubuntu patch to k3bsetup2.desktop (closes: #353826)"  seaLne: try and find the change he made there too
[01:07] <Riddell> mornfall: that still means your different patches are put together into the .diff.gz so you can't find which changes are part of the same issue
[01:07] <seaLne> k
[01:08] <mornfall> Riddell, seaLne, you may want to check out http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-k3b
[01:08] <seaLne> yeah looking on alioth now, i didn't think to look there
[01:13] <mornfall> ubuntu is not quite doing nearly as much as they seem to imply to cooperate with debian
[01:14] <mornfall> ubuntu complaining about debian (who promised exactly nothing) being uncooperative really makes me sick
[01:14] <Riddell> mornfall: are we complaining?
[01:14] <mornfall> sounds like it, yes
[01:15] <Riddell> that's not what I mean, I think that patching directly in the .diff.gz is silly but it's entirely ubuntu's problem how we merge
[01:16] <Riddell> and this is seaLne's first merge, he's still learning how to do it
[01:16] <Hobbsee> Riddell: if kdesktop's crashing, how would we figure out what exactly is happening as it crashes?  how do we run it thru konsole, for example...
[01:16] <mornfall> well, probably... i may be overreacting a bit
[01:17] <Riddell> Hobbsee: you can run kdesktop through a command line same as anything else
[01:17] <Hobbsee> Riddell: and then it freezes, as usual, but doesnt output anything on the command line...
[01:17] <mornfall> but since i met mark and mdz at debconf, well... i am less and less convinced that i want to have anything with ubuntu in the future
[01:17] <Hobbsee> well, the background stays there, but the icons go, and you cant right/left click on it.
[01:18] <mornfall> it may get better after paris
[01:18] <mornfall> that's what i hope for
[01:21] <mornfall> i am just a bit dissatisfied that's all
[01:24] <mornfall> In Flames -- The Quiet Place
[01:26] <Riddell> Hobbsee: run it through gdb
[01:26] <Riddell> maybe we need a debian relations BoF at Paris
[01:26] <Riddell> Hobbsee: gdb kdesktop
[01:26] <Riddell> run
[01:27] <Riddell> wait until breaks
[01:27] <Riddell> bt
[01:27] <Hobbsee> oh...i see...
[01:34] <Hobbsee> it wont crash when i want it to, but does almost the rest of the time!
[01:44] <mornfall> Hobbsee: try to pretend for a while it's not running in gdb
[02:16] <Hobbsee> mornfall: hmmm...
[02:16] <OdyX_> Riddell: I have an issue with kubuntu-desktop. vrms reports that ttf-gentium is installed and non-free (Open Font License). ttf-gentium is required by kubuntu-desktop. So Kubuntu is not "FSF-free"....
[02:20] <klugez> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIL_Open_Font_License claims it's "FSF-free"
[02:21] <mornfall> OdyX_: vrms is not fool-proof
[02:21] <OdyX_> "fool-proof" ?
[02:21] <OdyX_> klugez: OK...
[02:22] <klugez> OdyX_: although, as it's only such a stub, it might well be wrong
[02:24] <Riddell> OdyX_: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html
[02:24] <Riddell> " it is harmless"
[02:24] <klugez> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html#Fonts - "The Open Font License is a Free copyleft license for fonts."
[02:24] <Riddell> although they don't recommend it
[02:25] <OdyX_> OK
[02:27] <mornfall> it's even in debian
[02:27] <mornfall> debian main that is
[02:28] <Riddell> OdyX: and we do ship evil nvidia stuff on the CD too :(
[02:28] <OdyX> Riddell: have you heard about kororaa GPL problems thereabout ?
[02:28] <mornfall> Riddell: wth?
[02:28] <Riddell> yes
[02:28] <mornfall> you ship nvidia?
[02:28] <OdyX> and you don't think it's an issue ?
[02:28] <mornfall> are you insane?
[02:29] <Riddell> OdyX: anything non-free is an issue
[02:29] <OdyX> Riddell: therefor...
[02:29] <OdyX> Riddell: nvidia is worse than non-free...
[02:30] <OdyX> Riddell: nvidia is binary driver running as root: EVIL          !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[02:30] <freeflying|away> Riddell: can we show some components of kontact in k-menu, such as kmail
[02:31] <Hobbsee> anyone else noticed that we have a sort by recently changed, in LP now?
[02:31] <seaLne> cool
[02:33] <Riddell> freeflying|away: why?
[02:34] <freeflying|away> Riddell: dosen't everyone need kontact, maybe he/she just need kmail
[02:35] <Riddell> we need the kmail .desktop file to show only if kontact doesn't exist
[02:36] <freeflying|away> Riddell: and kontact will cost extra resources and time for starting than one 
[02:36] <Riddell> I think I'll make a spec kubuntu-intelligent-menu-items
[02:36] <freeflying|away> Riddell: but kontact is installed defaultly
[02:37] <Riddell> yes, so if you remove it you have a problem, but if kontact is there I don't see any need for having kmail in the menus, that's just redundant
[02:39] <seaLne> there is the problem of looking in internet menu and not seeing anything that is described as a mua
[02:39] <freeflying|away> Riddell: do we have kontact entry in menu? 
[02:39] <seaLne> kontact is in office on my machines
[02:40] <Riddell> freeflying|away: yes, under Office,  (Personal Information Manager)
[02:40] <Riddell> "Personal Information Manager" doesn't mean a lot to me
[02:40] <freeflying|away> Riddell: so, we may provide kmail under internet
[02:40] <seaLne> which personally is somewhere i'd never have looked for it
[02:40] <Riddell> we should change it to "E-mail, calendar, contacts"
[02:40] <seaLne> YES! :)
[02:41] <Riddell> freeflying|away: it would be redundant
[02:41] <Riddell> what does Evolution describe itself as I wonder, and which category
[02:41] <freeflying|away> But many gus just wanna run kmail, but not the whole kontact
[02:42] <freeflying|away> Riddell: and continue put kontact under  Office
[02:43] <Hobbsee> does it support multiple email accounts, allowing you to send from any of them?
[02:43] <freeflying|away> Hobbsee: kamil works fine 
[02:43] <seaLne> yep
[02:43] <Hobbsee> really?  cool!
[02:43] <seaLne> i have 3 imap accounts and identities
[02:43] <Hobbsee> does it supporg gpg as well?
[02:43] <seaLne> sort of
[02:44] <freeflying|away> Hobbsee: sure
[02:44] <Hobbsee> seaLne: yeah, but you can *send* from any of them?  not just them having separate identities?
[02:44] <Hobbsee> that was the trouble i found last time...
[02:44] <seaLne> my work machine behaves perfecty, my home machine won't display some signed emails
[02:44] <seaLne> Hobbsee: yeah, i changed the compose dialog to have a menu you pick from, it also if you happen to be in a mail box uses that account by default
[02:45] <seaLne> s/changed/enabled/
[02:45] <freeflying|away> Hobbsee: it also can send out using different accounts
[02:45] <Hobbsee> nice :)
[02:46] <seaLne> my main gripe about kmail is that it dosen't allow you to tie smtp servers to accounts and i have to remember to select the right one
[02:46] <freeflying|away> Hobbsee: sure it be, kmail is the most pefect one
[02:46] <Hobbsee> seaLne: ah, okay
[02:55] <mornfall> seaLne: why you need to do that?
[02:56] <Hobbsee> seaLne: if i want to have two mail accounts, shown separately, do i have two identities, or two mails attached to the one identity?
[02:56] <seaLne> mornfall: personal email through personal server, work email thorugh work server
[02:57] <mornfall> hmm, i send work mail through personal server :] 
[02:57] <mornfall> methinks
[02:57] <\sh> seaLne: you can do that
[02:57] <seaLne> \sh: which?
[02:57] <\sh> seaLne: identities , choose your ident, advanced tab, special transport
[02:58] <seaLne> \sh: coool now if only gpg worked at home :)
[02:58] <\sh> seaLne: apt-get install gpg-agent pinentry-qt
[02:59] <\sh> sudo vi /etc/X11/Xsession.options and add gpg-agent 
[02:59] <seaLne> \sh: last time i looked at it i had the same packages at home as at work
[02:59] <\sh> restart X ... and even gpg mime mails are working
[03:00] <seaLne> i don't have that on my work machine and its fine
[03:00] <\sh> Hobbsee: for two email accounts, you need two imap connections or two pop3 connections (retrieval) configured, then at least two identities, if you have two different email addresses
[03:00] <\sh> seaLne: not if the mails are gpg/mime compliant
[03:00] <Hobbsee> \sh: yep, right
[03:01] <Hobbsee> wonder what the p/w and login details to my email are.
[03:01] <seaLne> \sh: for instance at home i can't read *-changes
[03:01] <\sh> seaLne: why not?
[03:02] <seaLne> all i get when i view the message is a wee padlock image and the mail subject in the body
[03:05] <Hobbsee> i obviously havent configured my email in a while.  what's the smtp server of gmail again?
[03:05] <\sh> seaLne: hmmm..wrong gpg config in kmail or gnupg.conf at all
[03:06] <jsgotangco> good evening
[03:07] <seaLne> \sh: not sure i'll ave a look at those things when i get home tonight
[03:07] <Hobbsee> hey jsgotangco 
[03:07] <jsgotangco> hey
[03:07] <jsgotangco> i just wonder
[03:07] <jsgotangco> has anyone experience getting segfault on apt-get in kubuntu? its a fresh install
[03:07] <jsgotangco> dapper
[03:09] <Riddell> jsgotangco: not seen that
[03:09] <jsgotangco> hmm my box is cursed then
[03:09] <jsgotangco> i will check further
[03:09] <Riddell> ask mvo
[03:09] <jsgotangco> yeah but it works fine with edubuntu
[03:11] <seaLne> they have the same apt-get
[03:12] <jsgotangco> yep even stranger, doing a backtrace atm
[03:19] <mornfall> --> home
[03:20] <Hobbsee> mmm...kmail has gotten nicer!
[03:21] <goldenear> kmail seems to not like acpi/suspend
[03:22] <goldenear> I always have to restart kmail after "sudo pmi action suspend"
[03:23] <goldenear> kmail doesn't work after wake up
[03:23] <goldenear> it can't connect to my imap servers anymore
[03:23] <goldenear> so I have to restart it
[03:23] <goldenear> I don't know if it's a bug or only a config problem...
[03:24] <goldenear> But I really hope acpi will by ok in kubuntu edgy
[03:24] <\sh> goldenear: ethernet problems or wlan problems
[03:24] <goldenear> I don't use wlan
[03:24] <goldenear> ethernet maybe ...
[03:24] <goldenear> but other apps works fine (konversation)
[03:25] <goldenear> also, the eth0 if seems to be correctly put down before suspend and put up after wakup
[03:26] <goldenear> so I'm not sure it is the probleme
[03:27] <Hobbsee> goldenear or someone, can you do me a favour?
[03:27] <goldenear> sure
[03:27] <Hobbsee> send me an email at hobbsee@kubuntu.org 
[03:30] <goldenear> Hobbsee: done
[03:30] <Hobbsee> goldenear: thanks
[03:30] <goldenear> yw
[03:30] <Hobbsee> yay!  thankyou :D
[03:32] <goldenear> :)
[03:39] <Hobbsee> ooh, first kmail crash!
[03:41] <Hobbsee> http://pastebin.com/767320  i wonder why...
[03:42] <freeflying|away> Hobbsee: you are so lucky, I haven't gotten any crashes of kmail for a while  :)
[03:43] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:43] <Hobbsee> freeflying|away: i havent used it, except for in the last half an hour or so, for months.
[03:56] <imbrandon> heya freeflying / Hobbsee
[03:56] <Hobbsee> hey imbrandon 
[03:58] <seaLne> @time south africa
[03:58] <seaLne> hmm ok not that then
[03:58] <freeflying-g4> imbrandon:  hey
[03:58] <Hobbsee> seaLne: that should work
[03:58] <Hobbsee> @time sydney
[03:58] <Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: June 08 2006, 23:58:50
[03:58] <Hobbsee> seaLne: specify a citi?
[03:58] <imbrandon> @now
[03:58] <Hobbsee> y
[03:58] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 08 2006, 13:59:01
[03:59] <seaLne> @time Africa/Johannesburg
[03:59] <Ubugtu> Current time in Africa/Johannesburg: June 08 2006, 15:59:33
[03:59] <imbrandon> seaLne: or timezone 
[03:59] <seaLne> https://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
[04:03] <freeflying-g4> @time shanghai
[04:03] <Ubugtu> Current time in Asia/Shanghai: June 08 2006, 22:03:07
[04:11] <imbrandon> brandon@voyager:/usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts$ sudo sed -i s/dapper/edgy/g /var/chroot/edgy/etc/apt/sources.list
[04:11] <imbrandon> whoops
[04:11] <Hobbsee> yay!  it be working!
[04:12] <imbrandon> whats working Hobbsee?
[04:13] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i tried kmail again...seeing as it will let you send from multiple email accounts now - seems to work okay
[04:13] <imbrandon> ahh ;)
[04:16] <sebas> goldenear: If you have a SMP laptop, check if both CPU's are using the same cpufreq governor.
[04:17] <goldenear> sebas: I'm using a single CPU desktop computer
[04:18] <sebas> Ok.
[04:18] <goldenear> sebas: pmi action suspend works well and the computer wakes up properly
[04:18] <sebas> I'm using kpowersave on my notebook, stopping / restarting powersaved before / after suspend-to-disk works for me.
[04:18] <sebas> Though I don't know why I set it up to restart powersaved anymore.
[04:20] <goldenear> Gnome works well with ACPI, it's a shame that kde doesn't work as well :/
[04:20] <sebas> Use GNOME then.
[04:20] <goldenear> lol
[04:20] <goldenear> I did before
[04:21] <goldenear> but since I've rediscovered KDE with kde 3.4 I don't want to go back to gnome :)
[04:22] <sebas> Does it work when you stop powersaved prior to suspending?
[04:22] <sebas> And are you refering to suspend to disk or to RAM?
[04:22] <goldenear> both do the same
[04:22] <goldenear> suspend to disk/ram works
[04:23] <imbrandon> noooooooooooooooooooo
[04:23] <imbrandon> lol
[04:23] <sebas> goldenear: !more info
[04:24] <imbrandon> actualy i setup my old amd 1800+ for gnome / edgy , but i'm keeping my main dev box kde / edgy and my main box dapper ;)
[04:24] <goldenear> but when the computer wakes up the screen stay blank and the keybord is blocked
[04:24] <sebas> Is blank backlight on or off?
[04:25] <goldenear> nop (I have a crt) lol
[04:25] <sebas> black or dpms off then? 
[04:25] <goldenear> but the screen stay suspended (DPMS/orange led)
[04:25] <tvo> Riddell: cool :)  maybe a crash bug in the reconfigure function of the catalog? Did you make a backtrace?
[04:26] <sebas> And if you don't user powersaved or kpowersave (which actually??) it works?
[04:26] <sebas> goldenear: Please, do not urge me to ask every single bit, this hardly works for me debugging your issue :/
[04:26] <tvo> Riddell: I'll find and checkout the katapult KDE SVN later today
[04:27] <seaLne> sebas: did you manage to get fn+F7 to change video display?
[04:27] <Riddell> tvo: it's caused by the triggerWord string, grep for FIXME
[04:27] <Riddell> but I don't know why that's a problem
[04:27] <goldenear> sebas: also I've tried to force vga activation after suspend in the bios ACPI parameters... with that option, screen wake up with the computer, but stay blank
[04:27] <sebas> seaLne: Nope, but the ATi driver doesn't support it atm.
 And if you don't user powersaved or kpowersave (which actually??) it works? <-- what do you mean ?
[04:28] <sebas> goldenear: What actually causes the problem?
[04:28] <goldenear> I don't know :(
[04:28] <sebas> goldenear: Which parameter works?
[04:28] <tvo> Riddell: ok, I'll take a look soonish
[04:28] <sebas> Tried vbetool?
[04:28] <goldenear> sebas: pmi action suspend works
[04:28] <seaLne> sebas: the advanced mini dock seems pretty flacky even under windows it seems to randomly work and not work, but under linux i can't switch the display
[04:29] <sebas> goldenear: Well, this doesn't work for me, can you send an e-mail to kubuntu-devel? Then I may find some time later on to help you out.
[04:29] <goldenear> sebas: kpowersave suspend doesn't
[04:29] <sebas> goldenear: And using powersave to suspend *does* work?
[04:30] <sebas> And I wasn't aware that you were refering to suspending *via* kpowersave, thought you were talking about suspending *with* powersaved running.
 goldenear: And using powersave to suspend *does* work? <-- never tried it except with kpowersave
[04:30] <sebas> Basically, you need to make kpowersave use the PMI infrastructure.
[04:30] <sebas> Well, you just told that you tried it with pmi ... 
[04:31] <goldenear> indeed ?
[04:31] <sebas> seaLne: No dock here :)
[04:31] <goldenear> sebas: do you want I try a "powersave -u" ?
[04:32] <sebas> Sure, collect a lot of information, write it down and send it to kubuntu-devel.
[04:32] <sebas> [16:28:42] <goldenear> sebas: pmi action suspend works
[04:32] <goldenear> yes it works
[04:32] <goldenear> but pmi isn't powersave isn't it ?
[04:32] <sebas> That's right.
[04:33] <sebas> But powersaved *can* use pmi, if told so.
 Basically, you need to make kpowersave use the PMI infrastructure. <-- how to do it ?
[04:35] <goldenear> sebas: how can I tell (k)powersave to use pmi ?
[04:35] <sebas> You need a newer powersaved, I think.
[04:36] <sebas> http://forge.novell.com/pipermail/powersave-users/2006-February/000022.html
[04:36] <goldenear> sebas: ok, I will try to compile a new one
[04:36] <sebas> http://forge.novell.com/pipermail/powersave-users/2006-February/000028.html
[04:41] <goldenear> sebas: I may have found the problem (from powersave webpages) One exception to this rule is acpid - since only one process can access /proc/acpi/event and at least HAL and powersaved need ACPI events, we use acpid as an "event distributor". To achieve this you should configure acpid to not process any events, otherwise you will get undefined results since powersaved also executes actions based on ACPI events. Just removing ever
[04:41] <goldenear> named "default" in there should be enough for that.
[04:42] <\sh> moins sebas
[04:43] <sebas> \sh: Hi :)
[04:50] <goldenear> sebas: no ... removing acpi events didn't help... powersave -u still make the computer crash after wake up... I will keep investigating and mail something to kubuntu-deval
[07:32] <tvo> bah, now I borked my entire katapult install :/
[07:57] <Tonio_> hey
[07:57] <robotgeek> hey Tonio_ 
[07:57] <Tonio_> fine robotgeek ?
[07:57] <robotgeek> yup. how goes it for you?
[07:59] <Tonio_> very nicely :)
[07:59] <Tonio_> I'm living my job and paris soon, so everything's okay :)
[08:00] <toma> hmm? leaving maybe?
[08:00] <toma> hi all
[08:00] <jjesse> afternoon all :)
[08:01] <apachelogger> btw, someone knows the status quo of kopete package?
[08:01] <Tonio_> leaving yes sorru
[08:01] <Tonio_> sorry........ rahhhhhhhhh
[08:02] <Tonio_> I need to get used to that new keyboard
[08:05] <OdyX> Tonio_: dvorak ?
[08:05] <OdyX> ;D
[08:07] <mornfall> poll: who's on dvorak? :-)
[08:08] <Tonio_> OdyX: no, simple what we call in france "le syndrome des doigts carrs" ;)
[08:08] <OdyX> ;-)
[08:08] <OdyX> mornfall: I try to be..
[08:08] <OdyX> mornfall: but too hard to work...
[08:09] <mornfall> it is?
[08:09] <mornfall> ktouch was my friend :)
[08:09] <Tonio_> mornfall: I tried, but as I'm using several computers all the day it was simply too hard to switch between qwerty, azerty and dvorak, so I stopped :)
[08:09] <mornfall> Tonio_: ssh -Y lorien.mornfall.net keymap.sh for me ;-)
[08:09] <Tonio_> the problem is that learning dvorak implies that you are using it only or a long period
[08:09] <OdyX> mornfall: ktouch is fine...
[08:09] <OdyX> sure...
[08:10] <OdyX> and, as I have a laptop..
[08:10] <OdyX> I can't easily change the layout....
[08:10] <Tonio_> the problem is with windows machines at work........ I can't put dvorak on them without beeing killed :)
[08:10] <OdyX> so I have to learn "blind"
[08:10] <OdyX> but I the have to use it...
[08:10] <OdyX> blinf
[08:10] <mornfall> heh
[08:10] <mornfall> blind = best
[08:10] <mornfall> i only had actual dvorak layout for few days
[08:11] <OdyX> mornfall: sure it's the best...
[08:11] <mornfall> Pantera -- Walk
[08:11] <OdyX> mornfall: but the dvorak-fr has a lot of [Shift] , [AltGr]  stuff...
[08:12] <mornfall> OdyX: hmm, i made my own dvorak-cz+sk+de+hu ;-)
[08:12] <mornfall> well, basically cz+sk
[08:12] <OdyX> mornfall: because french has a lot of "specialities" (insecable space, ,, ...)
[08:13] <mornfall> well, i only have lots of accented chars...  etc
[08:13] <mornfall>  and other "specialties" are through a dead key
[08:13] <OdyX> like "Compose" mechanism ?
[08:13] <mornfall> and  or  too
[08:14] <mornfall> well, hit accent key hit letter key
[08:14] <mornfall> probably that
[08:16] <OdyX> no... Compose is different...
[08:16] <OdyX> Hit Compose, Hit C Hit O
[08:16] <OdyX> 
[08:16] <OdyX> :D
[08:16] <mornfall> oookey
[08:16] <mornfall> that's sorta "too many keys" :p
[08:16] <mornfall> at least for accenting
[08:29] <Riddell> tvo: how did you break your katapult install
[08:31] <tvo> Riddell: installing the katapult from SVN on top of it, uninstalling that one, then aptitude reinstall katapult. From after the first step it seems to be unable to find display/catalog plugins
[08:31] <tvo> stupid thing is I remember I had that earlier but I don't remember how I fixed it :/
[08:35] <toma> buildsyscoca
[08:35] <toma> maybe
[08:36] <tvo> yay! thanks :)
[08:36] <toma> you're welcome
[08:38] <Tonio_> hum, is there a way to suspend a laptop to ram using the shell ?
[08:38] <Riddell> Tonio_: sudo pmi action suspend
[08:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks
[08:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: what is "pmi" ? no man for this
[08:39] <Riddell> power management interface
[08:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks, is there a doc for it ?
[08:40] <Riddell> less /usr/bin/pmi
[08:40] <Tonio_> it is a script, okay, thanks :)
[08:45] <jjesse> Riddell: i heard back from that email, Mario will be helping out w/ Kubuntu Docs for edgy
[08:47] <Riddell> jjesse: woo!
[08:52] <jjesse> mmm 545k/sec download on the kubuntu 6.06 iso :)
[08:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was looking at a good replacement for wlassistant for edgy, as we can't ship knetworkmanager by default, and it seems that kwlan can really do the job
[08:53] <Tonio_> it supports wpa
[08:53] <jjesse> why can't we ship knewtorkmanager by default?
[08:53] <Tonio_> jjesse: because it only handles dhcp
[08:54] <jjesse> Tonio_: ah thanks, i learned soemthing new today :)
[08:54] <toma> fixed ips are a bit rare... do we need that functionality>
[08:54] <toma> ?
[08:55] <Riddell> Tonio_: does wlassistant not?
[08:55] <Tonio_> toma: I think yes
[08:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: no it doesn't.... only dirty wep
[08:55] <Tonio_> the problem is that kwlan tarball is a bit dirty...
[08:55] <Tonio_> I will contact upstream
[08:56] <Tonio_> toma: lots of people are using fixed ips at home to make proper routes (edonkey etc...)
[08:56] <Tonio_> all routers don't support reserving IPs depending the macaddress
[08:56] <toma> Tonio_: o ok. noted.
[08:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=37041
[08:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: the list of functionnalities is really interesting (sudo support, wpa etc....)
[08:58] <Tonio_> I will contact upstream to get a propper tarball (with copyrights, modern admin folder etc...)
[08:58] <Riddell> is it packaged?
[08:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: nope, since it has that old and stupid issue on moc files
[08:59] <Riddell> builddir!=sourcedir problems?
[08:59] <Tonio_> I need to make a dirty patch on Makefile.in to make it work....
[08:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: kind of yes
[08:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: but as we have time, I will first report issues to upstream (seems very active on it) and then provide a clean package when edgy is opened
[09:14] <Tonio_> hum..... I'm just testing it and it has a few usability issues....
[09:14] <Tonio_> but when mature, could be a good tool :)
[09:36] <DaSkreech> Would anyone happen to notice that the kubuntu documentaion doesn't ship with dapper?
[09:36] <jjesse> what???
[09:36] <DaSkreech> jjesse: Got Firefox?
[09:36] <jjesse> not on a kubuntu machine rifght now 
[09:37] <DaSkreech> ok Well it starts up with a Welcome to Kubuntu page
[09:37] <DaSkreech> file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
[09:37] <DaSkreech> None of the links off of it are viable
[09:37] <jjesse> hmmm i think there is a bug about that if i recall....
[09:38] <jjesse> i know if you open up konqi the guides are there
[09:38] <DaSkreech> There are lots of the actual pages on the system
[09:38] <DaSkreech> Just that "normal" people won't know that
[09:40] <DaSkreech> So that's a Firefox bug then
[09:40] <DaSkreech> help:/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html
[09:40] <jjesse> does that ork?
[09:40] <jjesse> work?
[09:40] <DaSkreech> That's the Konqueror link
[09:40] <DaSkreech> Yep
[09:40] <DaSkreech> I assume that they aren't in the same foldeer
[09:41] <DaSkreech> cause the link as seen from firefox is 
[09:41] <DaSkreech> <span class="sect1">
[09:41] <DaSkreech>               <a href="wonderful-linux.html">The Wonderful World of Linux</a>
[09:41] <DaSkreech>             </span>
[09:41] <DaSkreech> Ahh
[09:41] <DaSkreech> Whoops :)
[09:41] <jjesse> figured it out?
[09:41] <DaSkreech> In anycase the firefox link is a filesystem path where as konqueror is using KDE-Fu to find the file
[09:41] <DaSkreech> No but I understand the problem now :)
[09:42] <DaSkreech> I'll try and think out a solution
[09:42] <DaSkreech> See you later and thanks for listening :)
[09:42] <jjesse> check on malone first to see if there is a bug, i think there is one already with a solution, but i don't ahve the ability to check right now
[09:43] <DaSkreech> Alright
[09:50] <tvo> Riddell: seems this Spelling object is constructed (Spelling ctor calls Spelling::evaluate, which calls SpellCatalog::triggerWordLength [the crash] ) before the triggerWord is read from config file..
[09:50] <tvo> Riddell: triggerWord is a null string when it's crashing
[09:52] <jjesse> welcome kmon
[09:53] <kmon> hi everyone
[09:54] <kmon> jjesse: hi
[09:54] <DaSkreech> hi
[09:57] <tvo> Riddell: ha, got it. Spelling object is member of SpellCatalog, but at the same time refers back to the SpellCatalog
[09:58] <tvo> Riddell: so the _triggerWord hasn't been read because (or possibly not even be constructed) because at the time it's used, execution is still somewhere in the middle of SpellCatalog ctor...
[09:58] <tvo> let alone that _triggerWord hasn't been read from file yet...
[09:59] <DaSkreech> Just as a note there are LOT of questions in #kubuntu about XGL :)
[10:00] <jjesse> DaSkreech: write a wiki page how-to on it :)
[10:00] <DaSkreech> Oh I was just mentioning it in here for edgy purposes
[10:00] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: not xgl but compiz
[10:00] <Tonio_> lots of people are confused on that point
[10:00] <jjesse> DaSkreech: i was serious, if there a re a lot of questions theren there needs to be a document on how to do it
[10:00] <DaSkreech> I know But the 3D influence is already apparent
[10:00] <Tonio_> compiz can also work with aiglx, not only xgl
[10:01] <DaSkreech> I know
[10:01] <DaSkreech> jjesse: I thought that #ubuntu-xgl was doing that
[10:01] <tvo> Riddell: to fix, swap _triggerWord and _result in SpellCatalog.h so that ctors are called in correct order
[10:01] <DaSkreech>  Thats what I really want in Edgy
[10:03] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: don't get me wrong but there are already xen packages (and I use them, working fine), what is missing currently ?
[10:04] <DaSkreech> The Cool factor of saying And look what gets installed by default :)
[10:04] <Tonio_> except configuration facilities and frontend, I don't see the point
[10:04] <Tonio_> ok
[10:05] <DaSkreech> Though I wouldn't expect a front end in Edgy time frame
[10:06] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: I won't too :)
[10:07] <DaSkreech> Right. I haven't looked at Xen since Nov so I don't know where they are
[10:07] <DaSkreech>  Forexample I'm not sure how it works with Windows through Hardware Virtualisation
[10:08] <DaSkreech> Though I do have Xen installed over <---- there
[10:10] <kmon> does xen work on amd64 & powerpc?
[10:11] <imbrandon> kmon i was just googleing xen about an amd64 ;)
[10:12] <kmon> imbrandon: let me know then ;)
[10:14] <imbrandon> looks like not but its compine
[10:14] <imbrandon> comping
[10:14] <imbrandon> err comming
[10:14] <kmon> nice
[10:16] <Riddell> tvo: you're a genius
[10:16] <Riddell> tvo: that worked but I really don't see why, do they get constructed just for being in the .h file?
[10:17] <tvo> no, you have a circular dependency
[10:17] <tvo> in the constructors
[10:18] <tvo> SpellCatalog class has Spelling member
[10:18] <tvo> and Spelling ctor uses SpellCatalog stuff (_twistedWords specifically)
[10:18] <tvo> and in your crash case it used the _twistedWords before it was constructed
[10:21] <tvo> remember that ctors are called in order members are defined in class declaration
[10:21] <tvo> nyways, I'm ingame now :)
[10:53] <kmon> bye
[11:15] <bddebian> Hello
[11:15] <DaSkreech> hi
[11:16] <bddebian> Hello DaSkreech
[11:17] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[11:19] <DaSkreech> Are there delphi tools available in the repos?
[11:20] <imbrandon> probbly freepascal or something
[11:20] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[11:20] <bddebian> Kylix is dead isn't it?
[11:20] <imbrandon> nah klix is still arround but you have to get it from borland
[11:20] <imbrandon> cant be in the repos
[11:20] <imbrandon> infact they just pushed a patch a few days ago
[11:21] <DaSkreech> What was Kylix again ?
[11:22] <imbrandon> amarok sooo rocks , all its missing is a pony
[11:22] <imbrandon> DaSkreech: kylix == delphi for linux
[11:22] <DaSkreech> Ah right
[11:22] <imbrandon> kylix and delphi are just the IDE's pascal is the lang ;)
[11:22] <DaSkreech> really? Hmm ok
[11:23] <imbrandon> delphi == windows , kylix == linux , ide's for pascal
[11:23] <bddebian> I thought they had put C in Kylix too?
[11:23] <imbrandon> yea there is a c/c++ version of kylix and delphi both but its not widely used
[11:23] <bddebian> Ah
[11:25] <DaSkreech> So if I'm doing Delphi what should I be looking at?
[11:25] <DaSkreech> pascal compilers?
[11:26] <imbrandon> DaSkreech: yea
[11:27] <imbrandon> DaSkreech: if your doing delphi code grab kylix from borland ( its free as in beer but not open source )
[11:29] <imbrandon> DaSkreech: http://www.borland.com/products/downloads/download_kylix.html
[11:29] <imbrandon> ^^ you want the open edition
[11:29] <DaSkreech> Ok :-)
[11:29] <DaSkreech> and it comes with gpc?
[11:30] <imbrandon> gpc ?
[11:30] <imbrandon> think of it as delphi compiled for linux and given a new name, it uses delphi project files, source unaltered etc 
[11:31] <DaSkreech> right and has a compiler
[11:31] <imbrandon> yes its the ide / compiler / linker / debuger all in one just like delphi
[11:32] <imbrandon> they both are from borland and both do the same thing, just the linux product they gave a diffrent name, confuses most people
[11:33] <imbrandon> isntead of "delphi for linux" or such they just called it kylix
[11:34] <imbrandon> there are also 100% gpl solutions out there too like freepascal but they wont compile delphi code as is like kylix will
[11:34] <imbrandon> kylix 3 open edition == delphi 5 , basicly
[11:35] <DaSkreech> Nice
[11:35] <DaSkreech> Might need that for a difficult client