[12:09] <RobinShepheard> greetings all
[12:09] <Amaranth> nm
[01:19] <LaserJock> hi RobinShepheard 
[01:21] <HedgeMage> hi, all
[01:23] <LaserJock> hi HedgeMage 
[02:11] <bddebian> Hi HedgeMage
[02:19] <LaserJock> ogra: CD diet, lol
[02:21] <ogra> :)
[02:23] <HedgeMage> :)
[02:53] <opitwin> How do the games work in Edubuntu?
[02:54] <opitwin> Do they work good?
[02:54] <opitwin> Are they good for kids?
[02:54] <bddebian> Yes
[02:54] <opitwin> bddebian: Do they have good graphical layout?
[02:56] <ogra> opitwin, just grab a liveCD and test it out ;)
[02:57] <mhz> ogra: hi
[02:57] <opitwin> ogra: I'll do that
[02:57] <mhz> ogra: the setting of keyboards did work, so did the 'sesion' manager. Thx.
[02:58] <mhz> ogra: however, I have noticed this issue twice:
[02:58] <mhz> Clients do turn the server off :(
[03:00] <bddebian> Heya ogra
[03:00] <ogra> mhz, yes, thats an xfce bug they didnt address for dapper
[03:00] <ogra> hi bddebian 
[03:01] <mhz> ogra: hmmm, they were in gnome :(
[03:01] <mhz> oh, you mean, it overrides defaults?
[03:07] <bddebian> ogra: Do you have a second for a /query?
[05:36] <LaserJock> ogra: those LTSP specs are looking nice!
[07:08] <cbx33> wiki wiki wah, good mornin all
[07:09] <LaserJock> cbx33!
[07:10] <cbx33> hey LaserJock 
[07:10] <cbx33> you're still awake?
[07:10] <LaserJock> for a sec
[07:10] <cbx33> heheh
[07:10] <cbx33> sorry about last night
[07:10] <LaserJock> it's really only 10:10 here
[07:10] <LaserJock> but the wife says it's time fore bed
[07:11] <LaserJock> I"m actually looking at gisomount
[07:11] <cbx33> well that's what happened yesterday
[07:11] <cbx33> :p
[07:11] <cbx33> oooooh
[07:11] <cbx33> looking good?
[07:11] <LaserJock> and reading pygtk tutorial
[07:11] <cbx33> oh wow
[07:11] <cbx33> excellent
[07:12] <LaserJock> well, I don't know any gtk so it's greek to me ;-)
[07:12] <cbx33> i managed to package it up, so that it installs properly ;p
[07:12] <cbx33> pygtk is EASY trust me
[07:13] <cbx33> ther reference section of the docs
[07:13] <cbx33> is particularly helpful
[07:13] <cbx33> the most rouble Ive had so far was with the treeview widget in the info window
[07:15] <LaserJock> <-bed time
[07:16] <LaserJock> sorry, I'll talk to you in the morning
[07:17] <cbx33> well, when the missus says jump
[07:17] <cbx33> you gotta jump
[09:22] <crimsun_> (yep, crickets)
[09:26] <HedgeMage> heh
[09:30] <spacey> thunderbird?
[09:33] <HedgeMage> (on my gentoo box)
[09:33] <HedgeMage> my edubuntu lappy is in need of medical attention
[09:37] <spacey> thunderbird is in the top of my most hated apps (that i use)
[09:37] <HedgeMage> lol
[09:37] <HedgeMage> it has a few features I'm addicted to
[09:44] <HedgeMage> I really need to start distributing these compiles over the network again
[09:45] <crimsun_> good ole ccache+distcc
[09:46] <HedgeMage> :D
[09:47] <HedgeMage> just a few more packages and I'm done... yay!
[09:53] <cbx33> mornin all !
[09:53] <HedgeMage> hey, cbx33 
[09:54] <cbx33> hey HedgeMage 
[09:54] <HedgeMage> cbx33: may I /msg you?
[09:54] <cbx33> sure
[10:26] <cbx33> mornin pygi
[10:26] <pygi> hey cbx33 
[10:27] <cbx33> howz it going
[10:27] <cbx33> when did you say the scp meet was?
[10:29] <pygi> cbx33, next week, not yet sure when
[10:29] <pygi> when would you like it to be be?
[10:30] <cbx33> are you good for 20:00 UTC ish?
[10:30] <pygi> that's good, what day?
[10:30] <cbx33> hmmm dunno
[10:30] <pygi> We have cookbook stuff tuesday
[10:31] <cbx33> right yes
[10:31] <cbx33> what time?
[10:31] <pygi> 20:00 UTC :P
[10:31] <cbx33> cool
[10:31] <cbx33> i shuld be ok for those next week
[10:31] <pygi> hm, what about monday 20:00 UTC?
[10:32] <cbx33> hmm....should be ok
[10:32] <pygi> oki :)
[10:33] <cbx33> we'll see if ogra is av ailable for that to
[10:34] <pygi> indeed
[10:47] <spacey> cookbook stuff today?
[10:47] <spacey> uh
[10:47] <spacey> tuesday
[10:48] <HedgeMage> yep, tuesday
[10:48] <spacey> pygi: you should announce that on list or something
[10:48] <pygi> hey HedgeMage 
[10:48] <spacey> its quite hard to stay involved without reading it on irc accidently 
[10:49] <HedgeMage> hi pygi 
[10:49] <pygi> hey HedgeMage 
[10:50] <RobinShepheard> hello all
[10:50] <HedgeMage> hi RobinShepheard 
[10:50] <pygi> spacey, I am not sure how will we go with this cookbook stuff, but sure, I'll announce
[10:50] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: Hiya
[10:50] <HedgeMage> pygi: good thing you set the cookbook meeting for Tuesday, I'm going to be useless until then... had an urgent project come up
[10:51] <pygi> HedgeMage, no worries ;)
[10:51] <RobinShepheard> Anybody mind if I join you for the cookbook meeting
[10:54] <cbx33> no sure
[10:55] <cbx33> would be great RobinShepheard 
[10:56] <RobinShepheard> what channel will the meeting be on??
[10:56] <pygi> RobinShepheard, some which we'll create probably
[10:57] <RobinShepheard> ahh, will you let us know via this channel or will it be sent by email??
[10:57] <RobinShepheard> email = dev list
[10:57] <pygi> RobinShepheard, mail
[10:57] <pygi> I'll be writing it now
[10:57] <RobinShepheard> cool, good enough
[10:57] <pygi> o yes, we have ubuntu-cookbook channel registered :)
[10:58] <cbx33> cool
[10:58] <cbx33> I can't join it here
[10:58] <cbx33> but I can at home :p
[10:58] <RobinShepheard> just wanted to check as I have never work like this before, I am a bit of a newbie when ir comes to things like this
[10:58] <cbx33> RobinShepheard: it's great working like this
[10:58] <cbx33> :D
[10:58] <cbx33> what was the overall feel
[10:59] <pygi> cbx33, we must get complete chapters layout at the meeting tuesday
[10:59] <cbx33> from hte lug
[10:59] <cbx33> pygi: i agree
[10:59] <cbx33> and it's going to be bigger
[10:59] <cbx33> MUCH bigger :p
[10:59] <pygi> cbx33, indeed, considering we are to publish it :P
[10:59] <cbx33> i can see it
[11:00] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: well, most seemed to be fairly supportive in principal but no one really commited as yet as they thought we should try to tap mark shuttleworth/cononical first
[11:00] <cbx33> of course
[11:00] <jsgotangco> :/
[11:00] <cbx33> that's my next stop
[11:00] <cbx33> now that the dapper frenzy has quietened down
[11:00] <pygi> raekism, this book is great accomplishment anyway
[11:01] <pygi> ergh, RobinShepheard *
[11:01] <cbx33> I'll be finishing up the proposal
[11:01] <jsgotangco> so its all about funding then eh?
[11:01] <pygi> jsgotangco, nothing is about funding
[11:01] <cbx33> jsgotangco: mostly yeh
[11:01] <pygi> cbx33, ergh, why is that?
[11:01] <jsgotangco> HAH
[11:01] <RobinShepheard> pygi: you lost me with the ergh
[11:02] <jsgotangco> you don't need funding to publish just do it with lulu
[11:02] <cbx33> sorry we're talking at cross purposes
[11:02] <RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: no we are on about the BETT2006 show
[11:02] <jsgotangco> ahh that's different
[11:02] <cbx33> 2007 :p
[11:02] <jsgotangco> feel free to ask canonical for sponsorship =)
[11:03] <cbx33> else we need to invent a time machine first
[11:03] <cbx33> jsgotangco: that's the plan but we need a watertight proposal first
[11:03] <jsgotangco> feel free to register the time machine product in LP
[11:03] <jsgotangco> =)
[11:08] <RobinShepheard> what can I say, I am still lcaking in coffee this morning, got in the office and have been ponced upon, I shall be back in a mo, just going to get caffeine dose :)
[11:09] <HedgeMage> night night all
[11:09] <cbx33> ok
[11:13] <jsgotangco> horayy another 4AM meeting for me
[11:13] <pygi> jsgotangco, hm? :)
[11:13] <pygi> the cookbook?
[11:13] <jsgotangco> yes =_
[11:14] <pygi> ah, sorry about that :-/
[11:18] <jsgotangco> no worries, I just say to myself i live in the wrong timezone
[11:19] <jsgotangco> =)
[11:19] <cbx33> sorry jsgotangco 
[11:19] <cbx33> I'm ok to reschedule
[11:20] <jsgotangco> nah don't think about me
[11:23] <pygi> eh :-/
[11:23] <pygi> cbx33, how's python? :)
[11:24] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: night night
[11:30] <RobinShepheard> pygi: Just got the emails with the meeting details in, cheers
[11:32] <cbx33> pygi: really good
[11:32] <cbx33> managed to get treeviews working
[11:32] <pygi> cbx33, congrats ;)
[11:32] <cbx33> broke some functions out of some classes to neaten up today :D
[11:33] <cbx33> yeh they're not too bad once you get to know them
[11:33] <cbx33> pygi: can i ask you opinion
[11:34] <cbx33> we want to make it so that when we click a button it opens the mounted folder in something like nautilius
[11:34] <cbx33> but what if the user doesn't have nautilius
[11:34] <cbx33> i know we're writing fro ubuntu but I'd like it to be portable
[11:35] <pygi> ergh, every gnome installation has nautilus? :)
[11:35] <cbx33> yeh but what about kde users
[11:36] <pygi> well, you'll have a different UI for KDE,and you could add-in functionality needed for kde in backend
[11:36] <cbx33> can kde not use gnome libs like gnome can with kde?
[11:37] <pygi> well, it can, but then it would mean you need gnome libs on KDE
[11:37] <pygi> not many people are willing to do that
[11:37] <cbx33> right ok
[11:42] <pygi> talk to you later
[11:42] <cbx33> thanks pygi 
[11:42] <cbx33> i was gonna put it in the packager that would do an auto config
[01:31] <pygi> highvoltage, poke? :)
[01:41] <pygi> highvoltage, you around?
[01:42] <highvoltage> pygi: yep
[01:43] <pygi> who's gonna implement that xfce for Edubuntu?
[01:43] <ogra> pygi, *somebody* :)
[01:44] <pygi> ogra, hehe, nice ;)
[01:44] <pygi> basicly, it needs to use existing package, and overwrite configuration with our custom one, right?
[01:45] <ogra> well, first we should decide if its feasable at all, then we need to look if we want xubuntu or just plain tweaked xfce ... 
[01:46] <ogra> there are a lot of variables that first need the BOF discussion at the summit
[01:46] <pygi> Why not blackbox desktop? Even more lighter then xfce ;)
[01:46] <pygi> Yup, indeed
[01:46] <highvoltage> blackbox isn't developed upstream anymore
[01:46] <ogra> usually spces are not assigned to somebody for implementation before they are written :)
[01:46] <ogra> *specs
[01:47] <pygi> highvoltage, ergh, why is that :P
[01:47] <highvoltage> fluxbox isn't very intuitive, and would need plenty of plugins and work before being user friednly to the level that Xfce and Gnome are.
[01:47] <pygi> ogra, I saw a written spec, but yes, discussion is needed :)
[01:47] <ogra> we could switch ti ion3 
[01:47] <ogra> pygi, where on the wiki did you see such a spec ? 
[01:49] <pygi> nowhere on wiki :)
[01:49] <ogra> you see :)
[01:49] <ogra> all we currently have are drafts and a summary on the spec tracker ... 
[01:50] <pygi> hehe :)
[01:50] <ogra> the implementation details will be in the wikipage
[01:50] <pygi> 'fcorse, as always :)
[01:50] <ogra> and only if the wikipage got signed off by the reviewers we'll have a spec
[01:51] <ogra> after the summit we have a big pot full with specs that then get assigned to their implementers 
[01:51] <ogra> (indeed if you propose a spec and work on it from the beginning its liekly that you also are the implementer)
[01:52] <ogra> but thats not mandatory
[03:03] <cbx33> ogra: who picks implementors?
[03:05] <ogra> last time assignment was done by mdz and JaneW for the specs that had no self appointed implementors
[03:05] <cbx33> i see
[03:05] <cbx33> and they'd pick on people they knew could do the task :p
[03:05] <cbx33> cool
[03:21] <pygi> cbx33, you wanna implement something? :)
[03:26] <cbx33> pygi: I'd love to
[03:26] <cbx33> but not sure I'm up to that level yet
[03:26] <cbx33> I'll be helping all I can on scp though
[03:26] <pygi> ofcourse :)
[03:29] <pygi> ogra is assignee on s-c-p spec :)
[03:29] <pygi> so he implements it, and we watch from side :0
[03:29] <pygi> :)
[03:29] <ogra> :P
[03:29] <ogra> surely not
[03:30] <ogra> i'll maintain the branch, review the patches and might care for the packaging ... implementation can be done by others :)
[03:31] <pygi> ergh :P
[03:31] <ogra> ergh ? 
[03:31] <pygi> nothing, don't worry :)
[03:32] <ogra> just say if you think something is wrong with that 
[03:32] <pygi> just joking around while resting from that Diva stuff, no worries :)
[03:32] <ogra> oki :)
[03:33] <pygi> There is a release scheduled for today I think :P
[03:33] <ogra> :)
[03:33] <cbx33> nice
[03:34] <pygi> ogra, about replacing kdeedu with gnome apps, can't we just find people willing to do some porting, or write some educational applications?
[03:35] <cbx33> hmmm
[03:35] <cbx33> I'm sure some people wil be willing to help out there
[03:35] <ogra> "some porting" 
[03:35] <cbx33> I'll do what I can
[03:35] <ogra> HA HA HA
[03:35] <pygi> ogra, just you laugh :)
[03:35] <ogra> did you ever prot a kde app to gnome ? 
[03:35] <ogra> *port as well
[03:35] <pygi> once, yes :)
[03:36] <pygi> Not very big one tho :)
[03:36] <ogra> i think we wont get around rewrites ... 
[03:36] <cbx33> me either
[03:36] <ogra> but if there are apps with data (like a vocabulary trainer), we should reuse the data
[03:36] <cbx33> of course
[03:37] <pygi> Agreed
[03:37] <ogra> (which again implies to have kdeedu langpacks)
[03:37] <cbx33> hmm
[03:38] <cbx33> KBruch wouldn't take much rewriting
[03:41] <cbx33> hey Yagisan 
[03:41] <Yagisan> G'day cbx33
[03:42] <DanielC> Does anyone know of a web page explaining the difference between "virtual size" (memory) and "resident size"? Also an description of the stack vs data parts of VM, etc. I used to know this, but I studied it several years ago.
[03:42] <cbx33> wikipedia?
[03:42] <DanielC> tried that :(
[03:43] <Yagisan> DanielC: virtual size = how much ram the app allocated, resident size = how much its actually using (very simplified)
[03:43] <Yagisan> cbx33: did you ever run reportbug deng ?
[03:44] <cbx33> I'll do it when I et home
[03:44] <cbx33> playing doom II now
[03:45] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:45] <Yagisan> G'day bddebian, jsgotangco
[03:45] <cbx33> hiya bddebian 
[03:45] <Yagisan> cbx33: nice isn't it :)
[03:45] <cbx33> yeh
[03:46] <jsgotangco> g'day mate
[03:46] <Yagisan> had a bit of a drama tonight
[03:46] <Yagisan> my daughters hand got caught in the lift doors at the train station
[03:46] <cbx33> oh?
[03:46] <bddebian> Heya Yagisan, cbx33, jsgotangco
[03:46] <cbx33> oh no
[03:46] <cbx33> is she ok?
[03:46] <Yagisan> had to force it open
[03:47] <DanielC> Yagisan: So both VSZ and RSS cover both the stack and the application data? (e.g. if we're talking about firefox it'd include both Firefox itself and the HTML page you have in open). Right?
[03:47] <Yagisan> she got cut, and has a swollen hand, but I got there in time to prevent her fingers from being broken
[03:47] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: Has your machine stayed fix after a reboot??
[03:47] <Yagisan> DanielC: yes
[03:47] <DanielC> RobinShepheard: I haven't rebooted it, I should try that.
[03:47] <DanielC> Yagisan: thanks
[03:48] <Yagisan> DanielC: no worries
[03:48] <cbx33> phew...good going Yagisan 
[03:49] <Yagisan> yeah, they are big heavy doors, and the gap is just big enough for a 2 year old to get her fingers in
[03:49] <Yagisan> she touched the door while it was moving, and it just sucked her hand straight in
[03:49] <bddebian> Ugh :-(
[03:50] <DanielC> Yagisan: She going to be alright?
[03:50] <Yagisan> I'll take her to the doctor tomorrow morning, but she seems ok.
[03:51] <Yagisan> It's amazing how strong a geek can be when they have to be
[03:52] <Yagisan> we use a variety of different video cards here ?
[03:53] <DanielC> RobinShepheard: It doesn't work after a reboot. But running modprobe again fixes it. I guess I should add modprobe to one of the init scripts. Any idea which one?
[03:54] <Yagisan> I would appreciate some assistance. I'm trying to get some opengl info from a wide variety of cards for a project.
[03:55] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: If you add the pcmcia and pcmcia-core into /etc/modules they should load by default on boot
[03:55] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I have an ATI mobility 9000
[03:55] <cbx33> Yagisan: I'd help if I knew something
[03:55] <Yagisan> If you don't mind, could you run 'glxinfo -l > opengl.txt' and email or dcc it to me
[03:55] <cbx33> what can I do
[03:56] <cbx33> Us geeks have super powers
[03:57] <DanielC> I have on-board video.
[03:57] <Yagisan> DanielC: doesn't matter. the command will identify it
[03:57] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: what email address do you want it sent to??
[03:57] <Yagisan> jamie_jones_au@yahoo.com.au
[03:57] <cbx33> already sent
[03:58] <Yagisan> thanks guys. it will help tracking down many "graphics look strange" issues I'm working on
[03:58] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: arrival imminent
[03:59] <cbx33> sent another one too Yagisan 
[04:00] <DanielC> Yagisan: I just sent the results for my desktop and my laptop.
[04:02] <cbx33> RobinShepheard: i see your post about AD authentication
[04:02] <Yagisan> excellent. thanks guys. a quick glance at some of the emails that have already arrived is very enlightening
[04:03] <cbx33> mind if I use it as backup that AD authentication would be great for edgy
[04:03] <DanielC> AD == Active Directory?  If so, I would love to have that on Edubuntu LTSP. So that the students could access their Windows files from the Linux thin clients.
[04:04] <cbx33> DanielC: I'm working on it
[04:04] <cbx33> I have it working
[04:04] <DanielC> You rock man :)
[04:04] <cbx33> but, not over graphical login
[04:05] <DanielC> ah
[04:05] <cbx33> there are some things that need ironing out
[04:05] <ogra> note that AD auth is a part of the network authentication SoC project
[04:05] <cbx33> oh is it?
[04:05] <ogra> so we'll get it anyway from ubuntu
[04:05] <cbx33> will it work with LTSP
[04:05] <cbx33> that's my problem
[04:05] <ogra> why shouldnt it ? 
[04:05] <cbx33> well, actually I lie
[04:05] <cbx33> I have it working on text mode 
[04:05] <cbx33> just people can't login via the gui
[04:06] <cbx33> because as they are logging in, it's setting up their home dir to be the network share
[04:06] <cbx33> so that even their linux home dir is stroed on the windows file server
[04:06] <cbx33> but it's proving to have som dificulties, and I'm not sure why
[04:06] <cbx33> but if it's an SoC project I'll wait and see what happens with that
[04:06] <cbx33> authentication is EASY
[04:06] <ogra> well, i'm not sure the network auth spec covers mounting homedirs
[04:06] <cbx33> it's home dir mapping that screws it up
[04:07] <cbx33> for some reason, gnome just doesn't like it, I've forgotten a lot of what I did, but locking of files was a problem
[04:08] <cbx33> gnome wanted to lock a file and you can't do that over smbfs/cifs
[04:08] <cbx33> but i got round that, by making the lock file get stored on the local machine
[04:08] <cbx33> but there was another issue
[04:08] <cbx33> I'll look at it on monday and see if I can let you jknow what I did
[04:09] <ogra> tell your findings to ajmich, he's working on the SoC implementation
[04:09] <cbx33> oh ok
[04:09] <ogra> i think Mithrandir is his mentor
[04:10] <cbx33> ok
[04:12] <DanielC> cbx33: Putting /home/* in the Windows server would be a problem. It's not just Gnome. Firefox and OpenOffice will lock files (I think).
[04:12] <cbx33> hmmm possibly
[04:14] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: you could possibly get round the locking, by using unix services under windows and share with nfs
[04:14] <RobinShepheard> homes shares over nfs are sound, I have used them here
[04:15] <RobinShepheard> but you must mount them with fstab
[04:15] <RobinShepheard> well , i say must it seemed to work best
[04:15] <cbx33> hmmm
[04:16] <cbx33> mqaybe I'll investigate that
[04:16] <cbx33> I'll let you guys know what I find
[04:16] <cbx33> on the whole though the authenticatino is weasy
[04:16] <cbx33> see you guys soon
[04:21] <Yagisan> sorry - had to run out. daughters hand was hurting again
[04:22] <Yagisan> damm
[04:22] <Yagisan> I was about to say, IIRC samba supports locking
[04:23] <Yagisan> oh well. he'll be back later. hopefully I'll remember to tell him
[04:24] <pygi> Yagisan, I hope your daughter is all right :)
[04:24] <RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: so what is amarula??
[04:25] <jsgotangco> this wonderful liqueur from south africa
[04:25] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I must admit I thought it did as well, but I know nfs does
[04:26] <RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: bit tasty is it??? I have never gotten around to trying it
[04:26] <jsgotangco> its has a hint of caramel
[04:26] <RobinShepheard> I seem to remeber someone mixing it with milk but not quite sure
[04:27] <RobinShepheard> *remember
[04:27] <ogra> doesnt it have enough cream already ?
[04:27] <jsgotangco> its like bailey's but not that sweet
[04:27] <RobinShepheard> sounds pretty good to me
[04:28] <Yagisan> pygi: thanks mate. she's going to sleep now, but her hand is a bit of a mess. it was her right hand, so when she tries to pick things up etc, she cries out in pain.
[04:29] <RobinShepheard> spacey: thank you, I thought I remembered someone mixing it with milk
[04:29] <pygi> Yagisan, ugh :(
[04:29] <spacey> RobinShepheard: i don't know amarula
[04:29] <spacey> what i descibed is called a "white russian".
[04:30] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: poor kid, she has my sympathy
[04:30] <spacey> watch the movie "The Big Lebowski" and you will know :)
[04:30] <RobinShepheard> sorry my mistake spacey
[04:30] <Yagisan> RobinShepheard: when I last deployed it I'm sure samba did, but since then I've become an all Ubuntu shop (well mostly - some boxes run my custom Ubuntu work)
[04:30] <RobinShepheard> not paying enough attention
[04:31] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I am in the process of trying to get the authentication handled by our win2k3 servers as it will be easier to persuade people it is so little work to get into the local schools
[04:32] <RobinShepheard> Most of them have windows domains for authentication already, then just gradually move bits over a part at a time untill......
[04:32] <RobinShepheard> all linux
[04:33] <Yagisan> ah, I'm smaller. I did the radical thing - wiped the lot
[04:33] <Yagisan> shoved debian on, then worked out what was missing
[04:34] <Yagisan> changed to ubuntu around hoary
[04:41] <DanielC> Should I make the swap partition the first partition or the last?
[04:44] <Yagisan> DanielC: old (pre 1999) or new pc ?
[04:44] <DanielC> new
[04:45] <ogra> put it in the middle
[04:45] <DanielC> Ok.
[04:45] <Yagisan> DanielC: doesn't matter. to much. middle = less seeks, front = faster read
[04:45] <ogra> since its likely that the head moves between the other partitions, it can write to the swap space while moving between them
[04:45] <ogra> (if you put it in the middle)
[04:46] <DanielC> This will be a RAID1 if that makes any difference.
[04:46] <ogra> swap is only a safety net anyway
[04:46] <DanielC> The disks are 80GB. I don't see the pupils using a lot of disk space. But the system shouldn't grow much either (right?). So I guess it doesn't really matter how I set it up.
[04:46] <ogra> it will make the server very slow if it starts swapping, but at least you'll have te opportunity to saver open documents
[04:47] <ogra> *save
[04:47] <Yagisan> I use swap as a backing store for tmpfs
[04:47] <DanielC> Maybe I'll do this: 10GB (/home) -> 2GB (swap) -> 72GB (/)
[04:48] <ogra> erm, why would you want 72GB for / ?
[04:48] <ogra> i'd flip that
[04:48] <DanielC> I don't know what to do with all the space.
[04:48] <ogra> 72GB (/home) -> 2GB (swap) -> 10GB (/)
[04:48] <DanielC> Ok.
[04:48] <DanielC> In that order?
[04:48] <ogra> your users will fill /home, dont worry ;)
[04:49] <ogra> i dont think that order really matters if you run RAID
[04:49] <DanielC> Some people recommend making /boot a 50MB partition, but I don't see how that can really help.
[04:49] <Yagisan> hmm. might get a microscopic speed increase if the position of / and home is swapped
[04:50] <ogra> at least it wont have noticeable effects ...
[04:50] <ogra> (probably measurable, but well)
[04:50] <DanielC> Ok, so it won't be noticeable.
[04:50] <Yagisan> DanielC: older pcs canit boot if the boot files are located past certain points on the disk
[04:50] <Yagisan> s/canit/can't
[04:51] <Yagisan> I have a separate /boot on ext2, while the rest of my system is jfs
[04:51] <DanielC> Yagisan: Ok. So the 50MB /boot partition is only for old PCs.
[04:51] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: only hting that may be adding as a partition is /var as all your logs are stored there, and in theory could fill the disk
[04:51] <DanielC> RobinShepheard: Ok. How much would you allocate for logs?
[04:51] <DanielC> With today's disks I seriously don't know what to do with the space.
[04:52] <RobinShepheard> I well I use 5Gb as it is more than enough but means it cant overflow if you get a ddos or anything like that
[04:52] <ogra> well, i'd just let logrotate do its work :)
[04:52] <Yagisan> DanielC: I'll paste my partition setup for you to look at as a guide in a pastebin
[04:52] <RobinShepheard> ogra: I always figure better safe than sorry
[04:53] <DanielC> Yagisan: thanks
[04:53] <ogra> RobinShepheard, sure ... but usually logrotate should suffice (unless you have evil users doing weird stuff that populates the logs)
[04:54] <RobinShepheard> ogra: it is a school, I remember what I was like at school
[04:54] <RobinShepheard> we changed novell addresses so we could play games and all sorts of things, I would have hated to have to check the log files
[04:55] <RobinShepheard> all the addresses where on a map, so they would see what was running on each address then rollock the person at that point on the map
[04:56] <RobinShepheard> just we weren't there, we had swapped with another workstation on the opposite side of the room
[04:56] <DanielC> Does it really matter what filesystem I pick? I plan to just go for ext3.
[04:57] <Yagisan> DanielC: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15399
[04:57] <DanielC> *click*
[04:57] <RobinShepheard> ext3 is great for recovery because of the journal, I don't really think that the speed difference is really noticeable between filesystems, but there is the thought of the number of files
[04:58] <Yagisan> DanielC: it can. what is the systems role ?
[04:58] <jsgotangco> hmmm germany vs. costa rica
[04:58] <DanielC> Edubuntu server.
[04:58] <ogra> ltsp server i guess
[04:58] <DanielC> Yes. Edubuntu LTSP seve with 15-20 thin clients.
[04:58] <ogra> ext3 isnt very fast but very reliable
[04:58] <RobinShepheard> ext systems have a finite amount of inodes, so can only hold that number of files, where as reiser and others use a btree system so are not limited
[04:59] <DanielC> I've never seen anyone run out of inodes :)
[04:59] <dan_young> ext3 is bulletproof; I'd use it unless you've got a good reason not to...
[04:59] <Yagisan> DanielC: ext3 would be a fine choice. ignore claims it's not fast - on a general purpose system ext3 is just behind jfs and xfs in average speed.
[04:59] <RobinShepheard> I use ext3 as I don't reckon I will hit the file limit, but as a server in a school i dont know, I am not sure what the max number is
[05:00] <Yagisan> reiserfs is good for lots of small files, but delete speed is dog slow
[05:00] <DanielC> Ok. Stability is important to me (not that the system is critical - I just like stability). I'll go for ext3.
[05:00] <DanielC> Thanks for the help.
[05:00] <Yagisan> jfs and xfs are roughly same speedwise, but jfs has less cpu overhead
[05:02] <Yagisan> it eat your data ogra ?
[05:02] <ogra> nope
[05:03] <ogra> but it ate whole companies i knew back when SuSE defaulted their first release on reiser
[05:03] <Yagisan> ogra: then you have missed out on the essential reiserfs experience
[05:04] <Yagisan> 3.6 is ok now. won't go to 4 though.
[05:04] <ogra> since that time i have a lot respect for hans reiser and his work on unstable filesystems he tends to call stable
[05:05] <ogra> especuially since you dont need to zero out the partition after it wiped itself ... a really handy feature if you have to reinstall everything on ext3 afterwards
[05:05] <ogra> (not that i would want to sound bitter or something :) )
[05:06] <Yagisan> after my next full www backup, I'll try an in-place conversion to ext3
[05:08] <DanielC> For a RAID-1 do the disks have to be identical? Can I have one 80GB disk and one 82GB disk and just forget about the last 2GB?
[05:09] <Yagisan> DanielC: linux raid ? no. fake raid, or real hardware raid ? yes
[05:09] <DanielC> :(
[05:10] <jsgotangco> ogra: have you gotten time to read the specs on amenity and pike (or SoC quiz project)
[05:10] <DanielC> I was thinking of the RAID option that comes with Edubuntu, so that's Linxu raid.
[05:10] <Yagisan> DanielC: linux raid is a) faster and b) more reliable then bios fakeraid
[05:11] <Yagisan> DanielC: notice something about my setup ? the disk types ?
[05:11] <DanielC> Yagisan: How similar do the disks have to be? Do they have to be identical or just the same size? (is it even possible to find two identical disks)
[05:11] <DanielC> Yagisan: I see several "Linux raid auto" entries.
[05:11] <dan_young> DanielC: for software RAID, you just need partitions of the same size; the disks don't matter...
[05:11] <Yagisan> DanielC: edubuntu raid = linux raid. the disks just need the same size partition
[05:12] <DanielC> Ok, but that's just the partition, not the disk, right?
[05:12] <Yagisan> DanielC: I have a mixture of IDE and SATA drives
[05:12] <Yagisan> DanielC: I could raid together gmailfs and usb sticks if the partitions are the same size on linux
[05:13] <DanielC> :)
[05:13] <DanielC> Thanks for the info.
[05:13] <Yagisan> hmm. gmailfs + 300 invites + linux raid. could be fun
[05:14] <ogra> jsgotangco, nope, not yet, do you have a link ?
[05:14] <jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-amenity
[05:14] <ogra> thanks
[05:14] <jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-pike
[05:15] <ogra> wow, nice mockups
[05:15] <jsgotangco> yes we worked on it last weekend
[05:18] <pygi> jsgotangco, yup, nice mockups indeed
[05:20] <ogra> pygi, do you thing tuesday 20:00 UTC is really a good time for a meeting ? its very likely that CC is at the same time
[05:20] <pygi> ogra, that will not be on #u-m anyway, but if you think we should change it...
[05:20] <ogra> well, it gets a bit busy to attend both
[05:20] <pygi> I am willing to do so :)
[05:21] <pygi> oki, monday fine for s-c-p then and saturday for cookbook?
[05:21] <pygi> ergh
[05:21] <pygi> wednesday
[05:21] <ogra> i'm fine with either ... just make sure to not clash with other meetings
[05:22] <pygi> oki
[05:23] <pygi> ogra, ergh, xubuntu  meeting is wednesday
[05:24] <ogra> the whole day ?
[05:24] <ogra> :)
[05:24] <jsgotangco> hey you're talking to super mario
[05:24] <pygi> ogra, ah :)
[05:25] <jsgotangco> ogra: ok so going back, are you the one approving this or i am expected to do so?
[05:25] <ogra> jsgotangco, approving for what ? 
[05:25] <ogra> do you want to discuss it in paris ? 
[05:26] <jsgotangco> well it is an Edubuntu SoC project
[05:26] <ogra> yes, but you are the mentor, feel free to decide yourself, i trus your judgement
[05:26] <ogra> *trust as well
[05:28] <LaserJock> pygi: why are all these meetings in different channels?
[05:29] <pygi> LaserJock, because it's nothing officialy and not many people will attend it
[05:29] <LaserJock> so why not do it here for everybody to see ;-)
[05:29] <pygi> last time we held cookbook meeting in #u-m and we got thousand of trolls
[05:30] <pygi> ok, you go ahead and suggest that on the list if you want :P
[05:30] <pygi> We already have registered #ubuntu-cookbook channel ages ago :)
[05:30] <jsgotangco> heh but we have the logbot here
[05:30] <LaserJock> right
[05:30] <ogra> yeps
[05:30] <LaserJock> is it really Ubuntu and not Edubuntu?
[05:31] <ogra> i agree, that we should have meetings in the official channels
[05:31] <pygi> ok, ok, go ahead and suggest that on the list Laser ;)
[05:31] <pygi> LaserJock, it is edubuntu :)
[05:31] <LaserJock> ok, that confused me
[05:31] <LaserJock> I thought you were starting an Ubuntu cookbook
[05:31] <pygi> hehe :)
[05:32] <LaserJock> I thought you were just being ambitious :-)
[05:32] <pygi> LaserJock, I'll write to the list that we can hold meeting here
[05:32] <pygi> hehe, wait, there is time for ubuntu cookbook as well :)
[05:33] <pygi> xubuntu, and kubuntu one as well, while we're at it :)
[05:43] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:44] <pygi> ogra, ofcourse, we will
[05:44] <pygi> it's now scheduled to be in #edubuntu
[05:44] <pygi> I don't know how to post to fridge just yet tho, so I'll poke someone to do it :)
[05:45] <ogra> pygi, not #edubuntu :)
[05:45] <ogra> but ext time
[05:45] <ogra> *next
[05:45] <pygi> yes, next time will be #ubuntu-meeting with fridge, and stuff :P
[05:45] <pygi> ogra, omg, why not #edubuntu now? :P
[05:46] <ogra> if i ask you about something regarding S-C-P in 8 months and you tell me "but we decided about it in this or that meeting" i want to be able to find it in the #ubuntu-meeting logs without having to dig my way through "where did we hold that meeting ?"
[05:47] <ogra> thats the purpose of #ubuntu-meeting, for the whole of all ubuntu distros ...
[05:48] <pygi> indeed, but I don't know how to register meeting for that stuff in fridge
[05:49] <ogra> you mail fridge-devel i think
[05:49] <ogra> jdub or whiprush will know 
[05:49] <ogra> (they run the fridge)
[05:49] <pygi> so I am supposed to change the meetings to #ubuntu-meeting now, right?
[05:50] <pygi> ok, I'll talk with jdub
[05:50] <pygi> thanks :)
[05:50] <ogra> for the future meetings, yes
[05:50] <ogra> for now leave it as is ...
[05:51] <pygi> ok
[05:51] <pygi> sorry about that :-/
[05:51] <ogra> dont worry :)
[05:52] <pygi> :)
[05:53] <DanielC> Hmm... is the screen supposed to go black half-way through the LTSP configuration?
[05:54] <DanielC> It sure looks like the installer just crashed.
[05:54] <ogra> yes, its supposed to
[05:55] <DanielC> Why does the screen go black? It looks like it died. Especially since that step takes several minutes.
[05:55] <ogra> the xserver package does its autoconfig magic even thats not needed on thin clients because its repeated on bootup for them
[05:56] <DanielC> Ok. So I can cross my fingers and hope that it comes back up later.
[05:56] <ogra> i'll look into that, we can probably add a preseed option to the package to skip that 
[05:56] <ogra> it usually comes back within a second
[05:56] <DanielC> Oh, it's been a lot more than a second. I'm talking 10min and counting.
[05:57] <DanielC> I hear the disk spinning, so it's doing something.
[05:57] <ogra> it only starts the X server and waits for it to exit again to determine the valuews for the currently connected monitor and graphics card
[06:04] <DanielC> Still not back on. It's been another 5min. I hear the disk spinning, but there's noting on the screen.
[06:04] <DanielC> It looks like it's dead.
[06:04] <DanielC> This happened yesterday too (same computer).
[06:05] <DanielC> Yesterday I ended up just doing a hard power off.
[06:05] <ogra> looks like your graphics card does something weird then ...
[06:06] <DanielC> Possible. But if this box worked with Edubuntu Breezy, why would it not work with Edubuntu Dapper?
[06:06] <DanielC> If it worked before, then it looks like a problem with Dapper.
[06:06] <DanielC> I can also boot a Dapper LiveCD into this computer.
[06:06] <ogra> do you happen to have a liveCD around to check if it happes theer as well ? 
[06:08] <ogra> that was my question :)
[06:08] <DanielC> :)
[06:08] <ogra> hmm, then its very strange, since the initial xorg setup doesnt differ from the liveCD
[06:08] <DanielC> LiveCD works fine (tired yesterday).
[06:08] <ogra> and the packages are identical
[06:08] <DanielC> :(
[06:09] <ogra> the only idea i have now would be to install the workstation version, install edubuntu-server on top and run sudo ltsp-build-client manually
[06:10] <DanielC> Ok, I can try that.
[06:10] <ogra> if you do: sudo mount /cdrom before, you can use sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom
[06:11] <DanielC> ok
[06:11] <ogra> instead of having it downloading half the world
[06:24] <sbartleylinux> ogra: Hey there.  Is there a way to disable the "Hybernate" button from displaying when a thin client quits?
[06:26] <bundat> hey
[06:27] <ogra> sbartleylinux, try setting /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate to false
[06:30] <sbartleylinux> ogra: thx. will do.
[06:33] <sbartleylinux> ogra: hmmm.  k.  Where do I do that?
[06:33] <ogra> in gconf.-editor
[06:33] <ogra> s/.//
[06:34] <sbartleylinux> k
[06:41] <sbartleylinux> ogra: ok.  So, that makes it so that by user, the button does not get displayed.  Is there a way to specify so that it knows that if it is a thin client, regardless of user, to not display?
[06:47] <sbartleylinux> ogra: in other words, we see that when the client exits, it does not show the shutdown or restart buttons, but is still showing hibernate.  We are trying to figure out how to make it not show hibernate on any thin client to prevent the issue of a user on a thin client hibernating the server.
[06:51] <bundat> is anyone here using edubuntu on a p3 600mhz or lower?
[06:52] <Yagisan> bundat: client or server ?
[06:52] <bundat> the live cd. ver 606.
[06:53] <bundat> i just want to know how it is, performance wise.
[06:53] <bundat> i tried ubuntu breezy and it was slow.
[06:53] <Yagisan> bundat: oh. no then. 750Mhz is the slowest server I've tried on, 233Mhz slowest client
[06:53] <bundat> p3 557mhz /128mb ram.
[06:53] <bundat> p3 667 i mean
[06:54] <Yagisan> bundat: you have a lack of ram. xubuntu may be quicker
[06:55] <bundat> how was it on the 233mhz pc?
[06:55] <bundat> how much ram do you have on that 233mhz?
[06:56] <Yagisan> bundat: 256MB. works ok. bit slow at times when launching an app. faster as a thin client, so that's what it boots to by default, but I left a disk in for when I want to run local apps
[06:59] <bundat> ok. i just finished the burning the iso. thanks yagisan. i'll see you later.
[06:59] <bundat> or maybe not.
[07:03] <Yagisan> night all
[07:06] <LaserJock> ack, cbx33 
[07:07] <cbx33> hey
[07:07] <cbx33> hiya LaserJock 
[07:08] <cbx33> made some more changes
[07:08] <LaserJock> of course you did ;-)
[07:10] <sbartleylinux> ogra:  Welcome back.  So, the system seems to have some gnome default config that says "if remote connection is made, do not allow shutdown or restart button".  However, it does allow hibernate button.  We want to change the default, wherever that is, to not allow any of the three that could cause the server to be brought down by a thin client click.
[07:16] <bundat> !seen yagisan
[07:16] <ubotu> yagisan <n=jamie@60-240-85-239-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 12m 45s ago, saying: 'night all'.
[07:54] <babygirl> hey there, I recently upgraded from edubuntu 5.10 to 6.06 and openoffice has disappeared, is this normal?
[07:55] <LaserJock> yikes, I don't think so
[07:56] <babygirl> it's happened on more than one machine so what could be the problem?
[07:57] <babygirl> it has been removed from the Applications->Office menu, and doesn't appear in /usr/bin/ooffice2
[07:58] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't have an edubuntu install in front of me
[07:58] <LaserJock> can you check to see if the packages are installed
[07:58] <LaserJock> in synaptic
[08:02] <babygirl> it looks like some of the packages are installed, but not all of them, though I'm not sure if I need all of them
[08:02] <LaserJock> probably not
[08:03] <LaserJock> ok, now use the menu editor in  Applications->Accessories to see what items are in the Office menu
[08:04] <babygirl> only scribus and evolution (there is a second evolution but it's not set to visible)
[08:04] <LaserJock> hmm, weird
[08:04] <LaserJock> babygirl: well, I'd probably try to just reinstall openoffic
[08:05] <babygirl> ok, thanks for your help :), guess I'll have to do that to all the machines that I upgrade :(
[08:06] <LaserJock> hmm, sorry I'm not much help
[08:06] <LaserJock> I haven't heard of that happening before
[08:06] <babygirl> np, maybe I'm doing something wrong in the upgrade
[08:07] <LaserJock> just a sec, let me check for open bugs
[08:07] <babygirl> ok, tx :)
[08:08] <LaserJock> ah, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/48124
[08:09] <LaserJock> is edubuntu-desktop installed on the machines?
[08:09] <babygirl> yes
[08:09] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:11] <babygirl> er, what is edubuntu-desktop?
[08:11] <babygirl> :)
[08:11] <LaserJock> it is the meta-package that pulls everything together
[08:11] <babygirl> probably not, if I had to install it extra then
[08:11] <LaserJock> no, it should be there by default
[08:12] <LaserJock> that is how the desktop gets installed
[08:12] <babygirl> ok, I installed 5.10 from install cds, so assume it should be there then
[08:13] <babygirl> looks like I'm having the same problem as this other guy though
[08:13] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:13] <LaserJock> I just haven't upgraded from 5.10 for a long time
[08:16] <babygirl> it looks like I have edubuntu-desktop installed on the 5.10 machines I haven't upgraded yet. But it is no longer installed on the machines that I have upgraded to 6.06.
[08:16] <LaserJock> oh, now that's interesting
[08:17] <LaserJock> that would cause that kind of problem
[08:17] <LaserJock> how did  you upgrade?
[08:18] <babygirl> I upgraded a couple directly from apt-get dist-upgrade,   a couple more, I also upgraded with apt-get in cooperation with the files on the install cd
[08:18] <babygirl> both ways of upgrading have caused this problem
[08:20] <babygirl> i.e. I updated the sources.list for dapper, then did "sudo apt-cdrom add", then "sudo apt-get update", then "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
[08:20] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:20] <babygirl> the first two I tried I didn't add the cdrom, but they still have the same problems
[08:21] <LaserJock> there is an upgrade tool I believe
[08:21] <babygirl> yeah, I saw that but assumed this way would work too, maybe that is the problem?
[08:22] <LaserJock> well, dist-upgrading from release to release can have it's problems
[08:23] <babygirl> so the "Update Manager" doesn't use the standard dist-upgrading?
[08:24] <LaserJock> it tries to do it better :-)
[08:24] <LaserJock> check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperUpgrades
[08:24] <babygirl> ok thanks, maybe I will give it a try :)
[08:25] <LaserJock> I hope it helps
[08:25] <LaserJock> you can at least install edubuntu-desktop on the already upgraded ones to make sure everything is installed
[08:26] <babygirl> ok, thanks, I will give that a try too.
[08:27] <babygirl> I prefer using command line, so didn't bother with the Update Manager, guess I have to accept we live in a GUI world :)
[08:28] <LaserJock> hehe, I'm a terminal kind of guy myself
[08:31] <babygirl> ok, thanks LaserJock, going to head for lunch now, but will try that Update Manager, hopefully it will work :)
[08:32] <LaserJock> babygirl: ok, I hope it works too
[08:33] <babygirl> looks like that edubuntu-desktop will work on the new systems too, it is going to remove a few openoffice files, and replace them with other openoffice files
[08:34] <LaserJock> good
[08:34] <babygirl> that makes me happier :)
[10:04] <sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
[10:06] <Burgwork> hye pygi 
[10:06] <pygi> hey Burgwork, how are you? :)
[10:06] <Burgwork> not bad
[10:06] <pygi> :)
[10:07] <Burgwork> killing time waiting for a client to contact me
[10:09] <ron_o> is the live version different from the desktop?
[10:09] <Burgwork> ron_o, not really, at the user level
[10:09] <ron_o> some of the other ubuntu's are combining both a live cd with an install.
[10:10] <ron_o> I have ubuntu already and am familiar with it.
[10:11] <ron_o> from the d/l speed of the torrent, it looks like edubuntu is pretty popular.
[10:37] <sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
[10:40] <sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
[10:56] <pygi> sbartleylinux, can someone else perhaps assist you? :)
[11:05] <sbartleylinux> pygi: maybe. ogra is familiar with our system and configuration.   the system seems to have some gnome default config that says "if remote connection is made, do not allow shutdown or restart button".  However, it does allow hibernate button.  We want to change the default, wherever that is, to not allow any of the three that could cause the server to be brought down by a thin client click.
[11:07] <pygi> sbartleylinux, I don't see how that is a problem if correct permissions are set?
[11:08] <sbartleylinux> pygi: does not seem to be permission oriented.  For remote connections, we want to remove the hibernate button from the logout screen the same way the shutdown and restart button were removed.
[11:08] <sbartleylinux> Does not seem to matter what user is logged in remotely, hibernate button is there but restart and shutdown are gone.
[11:09] <sbartleylinux> I can remove it on a per user basis through gnome-editor but cant figure out where to make the change a global one like appears to have been done for the restart and shutdown.
[11:09] <pygi> Also, that might be matter of modifying the package which is in charge of logout screen
[11:10] <pygi> tried gconf-editor?
[11:10] <sbartleylinux> sorry. that is what i meant when i said gnome-editor.
[11:10] <pygi> ah,oki
[11:11] <sbartleylinux> modification of the package may be the issue.  our original testing was on breezy with ltsp-server-standalone and the hibernate button did not come up.  once we moved to dapper, it seems to have started.
[11:11] <sbartleylinux> further testing shows that it is there with freenx as well as with ltsp thin clients.
[11:13] <pygi> sbartleylinux, hm, interesting
[11:14] <sbartleylinux> yep.  was hoping that someone using thin clients might have dealt with this issue before.  Seems to us that this would be a very big issue for thin clients to have the ability to hibernate the server and knock all the users off the system.
[11:15] <sbartleylinux> might be able to fix it with permissions of whatever hibernate is calling so user's get the button but dont have the ability execute the app.
[11:15] <sbartleylinux> dont know what it is calling though.
[11:16] <sbartleylinux> And, this would not, obviously, remove the button from view, just break it so the user could not break the system.
[11:16] <pygi> indeed
[11:16] <pygi> that's what I was reffering to when talking about permissions
[11:16] <sbartleylinux> our preference would be to simply not have the button appear to any remote connection.
[11:16] <pygi> indeed
[11:17] <DanielC> Edubuntu doesn't like me. The installation always fails. At one point in the installation the screen goes black and never recovers.
[11:17] <DanielC> I've tried both the server and workstation installations. It's all the same.
[11:17] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: which video card is in your system?
[11:17] <sbartleylinux> Does the black screen have 2 little white boxes on it?
[11:17] <DanielC> It's an on-board video which works fine with the LiveCD.
[11:17] <DanielC> yes it does!
[11:17] <sbartleylinux> :)
[11:17] <DanielC> Youv'e seen this before?
[11:18] <sbartleylinux> OH Yes.
[11:18] <DanielC> Is there any hope for getting Edubuntu on this box? It seems odd that this would work with the plain Ubuntu LiveCD.
[11:18] <sbartleylinux> Should be.  just a sec.
[11:19] <sbartleylinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xresprobe/+bug/43722
[11:19] <DanielC> *click*
[11:19] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: that is the bug we filed for it.
[11:19] <ron_o> can the liveCD be installed?
[11:19] <sbartleylinux> We have just today hacked a fix for it in our kickstart/install.
[11:19] <dan_young> sbartleylinux: what is the per-user gconf key for disabling hibernate?
[11:20] <DanielC> ron_o: I haven't tried. I got as far as the partitioning and I couldn't setup a RAID system.
[11:20] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: If you simply wait once the screen goes black,  at some point, the cd should eject.  Once it does, simply remove the cd and hit Enter.
[11:20] <ron_o> don't care about raid..
[11:20] <ron_o> but live wasn't meant to be installed..
[11:20] <sbartleylinux> dan_young: /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate
[11:20] <ron_o> that's what it seems like on the d/l page. 
[11:21] <ron_o> The other distros are having dual live/install features.
[11:21] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: When the system reboots, it should come up fine.
[11:21] <DanielC> sbartleylinux: I did that with the workstation install, but when I restarted the computer it wouldn't boot. It said it couldn't find vmlinuz :(
[11:21] <DanielC> I forget the full file name, but it was the Linux kernel.
[11:21] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: did you hit the power button or hit enter when the cd ejected?
[11:22] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: our testing shows that if you hit the power button, it messes up grub.
[11:22] <DanielC> sbartleylinux: I must have hit Enter, but I'm willing to try again in case I didn't.
[11:22] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: hitting enter in our case works every time.  
[11:22] <DanielC> Ok, I'll install again and this time I'll make sure I hit Enter.
[11:22] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: could be diff hardware and other problems on your system.  
[11:23] <sbartleylinux> Give it a try though.  it may be worth it. best of luck.
[11:23] <DanielC> Question: Will this work with both the workstation and server install?
[11:23] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: seems to only be broke in the workstation.  The server install does not install the gui and so does not do the xresprobe I believe.
[11:24] <sbartleylinux> could be wrong on that as I have not personally tested the server install.
[11:24] <DanielC> The screen goes black in both cases for me. With the server install it goes black during the LTSP setup.
[11:24] <sbartleylinux> ah.
[11:24] <sbartleylinux> sure.
[11:24] <sbartleylinux> it does the xresprobe as part of the client config on the edubuntu server build.
[11:24] <pygi> sbartleylinux, please wait, I am looking into the issue
[11:24] <sbartleylinux> pygi: np.
[11:24] <DanielC> Well, I'll do a workstation install and later upgrade it to LTSP server.
[11:25] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: is your onboard an intel chip?
[11:25] <DanielC> sbartleylinux: That would be my guess.
[11:25] <sbartleylinux> yep. same here. just wanted to verify i was pointing you in the right direction.
[11:25] <sbartleylinux> good luck.
[11:25] <DanielC> thanks
[11:28] <pygi> sbartleylinux, poke?
[11:29] <pygi> please change /apps/panel/global/upstream_session key to true with gconf-editor
[11:29] <pygi> and lemme say what you get
[11:29] <sbartleylinux> k.
[11:29] <sbartleylinux> brb
[11:30] <dan_young> sbartleylinux: my try at hibernate removal on this pastebin: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15415
[11:30] <dan_young> seems to work
[11:31] <dan_young> just use /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory
[11:33] <sbartleylinux> dan_young: does that remove it for all users including when at console?  or just for remote connected users?
[11:33] <dan_young> sbartleylinux: all users
[11:33] <dan_young> including console
[11:33] <sbartleylinux> yes, thought sl.
[11:33] <sbartleylinux> so.
[11:33] <sbartleylinux> hm.
[11:34] <sbartleylinux> trying to figure out how it is done for restart and shutdown.  those appear at the console but not on remote connections.
[11:34] <sbartleylinux> pygi: hm.  seems to have slowed down the quit screen being displayed but still hibernate exists.
[11:34] <sbartleylinux> what is upstream_session?
[11:35] <pygi> sbartleylinux, hibernate still exists? ergh :-/
[11:35] <sbartleylinux> yep.
[11:35] <pygi> That's the logout dialog from gnome...it shouldnt have neither hibernate, nor sleep if I am not mistaken
[11:36] <sbartleylinux> pygi: wait.
[11:37] <sbartleylinux> hm.  seems again this only affected the user who ran gconf-editor.  the system menu changed to have log out and shutdown in the menu and no longer goes to the choice screen where hibernate was. 
[11:37] <sbartleylinux> let me log in as that user on a remote connection and see what happens.
[11:38] <pygi> sbartleylinux, well, run it in server chroot?
[11:38] <pygi> oki
[11:38] <sbartleylinux> :)
[11:39] <pygi> what? :P
[11:40] <sbartleylinux> ok.  so, login from the remote client as the user who I made the change as has changed the logout from the default gnome choice screen to a simple logout/switch user screen.  no more hibernate and no shutdown/restart either.
[11:40] <sbartleylinux> :)
[11:40] <pygi> see? congrats :)
[11:40] <pygi> Now try changing the key in server chroot
[11:40] <pygi> that should perhaps affect all users
[11:40] <sbartleylinux> console login shows shutdown as an option for that user.  Now I will test a lower user to see what they get on console.
[11:40] <sbartleylinux> pygi: k. over my head there.
[11:41] <sbartleylinux> how does one "changing the key in server chroot"?
[11:41] <pygi> ergh, cannot really explain that :-/
[11:42] <sbartleylinux> :)  k.  cannot really understand it so now I dont feel so bad.
[11:42] <pygi> go test that "lower user" of yours first
[11:42] <sbartleylinux> lol.
[11:44] <sbartleylinux> pygi: ok.  so lower user same results.  So, it is working at least at that level.  Now.....
[11:44] <sbartleylinux> next question would be what else does upstream_session change other than the logout screen display?  
[11:44] <pygi> nothing
[11:45] <sbartleylinux> will upstream_session be something that changing in the future or what does upstream mean?
[11:46] <pygi> upstream means "gnome" in this meaning
[11:46] <sbartleylinux> ah.
[11:46] <Amaranth> Burgwork: Have you ever looked at the code for RedHat's pygtk g-s-t replacements? It's horrible.
[11:46] <sbartleylinux> so, the default gnome uses "this" way.  Ubuntu uses the original panel setting.
[11:46] <pygi> what? :P
[11:47] <pygi> yup
[11:47] <sbartleylinux> k.
[11:47] <Amaranth> ubuntu adds some panel launchers and applets
[11:47] <Amaranth> but otherwise it's the same
[11:47] <pygi> there is logout, switch and cancel
[11:47] <sbartleylinux> yep.
[11:47] <pygi> sbartleylinux, thats good enough I hope?
[11:48] <sbartleylinux> So, is the inclusion of hibernate for remote users in the ubuntu tools not an issue for users of ltsp?
[11:48] <sbartleylinux> pygi: yes, if there is no way to modify the ubuntu tool configuration to meet the need, this will work for us I think.
[11:49] <pygi> sbartleylinux, I could play around with package responsible for that to remove the hibernate dialog perhaps
[11:49] <pygi> If only I knew which package was that :)
[11:49] <sbartleylinux> :) same issue I am having.
[11:49] <pygi> Amaranth, poke? :)
[11:49] <Amaranth> pygi: ouch
[11:49] <pygi> what package is responsible for logout screen?
[11:50] <Amaranth> I have absolutely no idea.
[11:50] <pygi> joy, nobody has an idea :)
[11:50] <Amaranth> But I know /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate is the gconf key you're looking for
[11:50] <pygi> sbartleylinux, does that remove that button?
[11:50] <Amaranth> i tried looking in gnome-session and gnome-panel for the patches for the ubuntu logout dialog
[11:50] <sbartleylinux> Yep, but it is on a per user basis, not a global change for remote users.
[11:50] <pygi> ergh. Amaranth *
[11:51] <Amaranth> sbartleylinux: Let me find the page that tells you how to make it system wide.
[11:51] <sbartleylinux> cool.
[11:51] <pygi> Amaranth, basicly change configuration in chroot
[11:51] <sbartleylinux> Amaranth: as long as it is system wide for remote only, not for console users.
[11:51] <Amaranth> http://www.gnome.org/learn/admin-guide/2.14/gconf-7.html
[11:52] <Amaranth> sbartleylinux: it's everyone or no one
[11:52] <pygi> if I am not mistaken
[11:52] <Amaranth> why would you hibernate the ltsp server?
[11:52] <sbartleylinux> Amaranth: exactly.  thus, the question of why is the hibernate button displayed on remote users logout screen?  
[11:53] <Amaranth> late in the dapper cycle the logout dialog changed to use gnome-power-manager
[11:53] <Amaranth> i guess no one from edubuntu realized what that would do
[11:54] <sbartleylinux> that is what I think too.  Trying to figure out how they have it so it does not display restart and shutdown for remote users but does for console users.  Want to mimic that for hibernate.
[11:54] <sbartleylinux> thus, so it would not be everyone or no one if I could figure that out.
[11:55] <Amaranth> heh
[11:55] <pygi> I guess the solution I gave is kinda good, but just kinda...
[11:55] <Amaranth> lots of regular (non-ltsp) users can't get restart or shutdown either
[11:55] <Amaranth> that dialog is a buggy *deleted*
[11:55] <sbartleylinux> pygi: sorry but true.  in a perfect world, I would be able to use the default tool and simply configure it the way i need instead of changing to the upstream tool.
[11:56] <sbartleylinux> I can live with it if I cant find the way to fix the default but I have to try to find the default if I can.
[11:56] <sbartleylinux> pygi: it is good to know there is at least a workaround as a fall back.
[11:57] <pygi> perhaps you could find out the name of package from #ubuntu-devel
[11:57] <sbartleylinux> i will ask.
[11:58] <pygi> sbartleylinux, you might try to explain the problem also, they might be able to help
[11:58] <sbartleylinux> gnome-session.
[11:59] <pygi> saw that
[12:00] <pygi> sbartleylinux, try asking for solution perhaps
[12:01] <sbartleylinux> doing now.
[12:01] <pygi> saw :P
[12:03] <francoisb> Is dan young here ?
[12:04] <dan_young> francoisb: hi
[12:04] <francoisb> hello, the irc is not installed by default on dapper
[12:05] <dan_young> francoisb: I just sent a reply to the edubuntu-users list on your tftp question