[12:04] <jdub> mgalvin: (although you can often find interesting information on release+1-changes...)
[12:04] <mgalvin> jub: indeed, already subscribed there ;)
[01:12] <bluefoxicy> who is in charge of libc? (or should I leave a minor almost-bug unassigned)
[01:13] <Keybuk> leave it unassigned, someone will assign themselves
[01:13] <bluefoxicy> alright.
[02:06] <sabdfl> mdz: 84 specs so far for uds-paris
[02:11] <bddebian> Nice
[05:20] <bluefoxicy> "gzip is free software...you should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with tar..." <-- gzip-1.3.5/debian/copyright
[05:42] <bluefoxicy> parsechangelog/debian: error: badly formatted trailer line, at changelog line 5
[05:42] <bluefoxicy>  -- John Moser <john.r.moser@gmail.com>  Thu 08 Jun 2006 11:32:00 -0400
[05:42] <bluefoxicy> what... what?
[05:43] <bluefoxicy> I don't understand this !@*^ing question.
[05:43] <bluefoxicy> oh ffs.. missing a comma.
[06:18] <Burgundavia> infinity: thank you for stepping in on that gcc thread
[06:19] <infinity> Burgundavia: I already spent last night arguing about it on IRC.  TBH, I'm mostly ambivolent to the idea of it in -desktop (though I will fight tooth and nail to keep it off servers), but I feel the need to fight "random -desktop bloat with non-obvious use cases"
[06:20] <Burgundavia> infinity: indeed. My concern was that it was the same people going around and around
[06:20] <infinity> Also, I just got a shot of homesick in the mailbox this morning.  Gary Burns sent me a copy of Waydowntown.
[06:23] <infinity> Burgundavia: Are you going to be in Paris as a doc-team rep?
[06:23] <Burgundavia> infinity: work conflicts, so no
[06:23] <infinity> Burgundavia: Damn.  I like you, cause you speak Canadian and I actually understand you. :)
[06:23] <ajmitch> infinity: just yourself there for the server team?
[06:24] <infinity> Oh well.
[06:24] <infinity> ajmitch: And neuralis.
[06:24] <ajmitch> ah good
[06:24] <Burgundavia> infinity: no worries. I will catch you in October
[06:24] <ajmitch> so you can at least have some discussion 
[06:24] <ajmitch> wherever the october meetup may be
[06:24] <Burgundavia> lets just say I am going to be in my office for 5 more working days the rest of June
[06:24] <Burgundavia> the rest I will be travelling for work
[06:25] <ajmitch> lovely
[06:25] <infinity> ajmitch: Yeah, I doubt we'll be shooting for anything earth shatterring on the server side.  Server stuff tends to move at a stately pace for very good reasons.
[06:25] <infinity> ajmitch: I do want to examine more "server installation options for idiots" stuff like the LAMP install, which seems to have been very well recieved.
[06:26] <ajmitch> yes, a few of those would go down well, and lead towards that 'small business server' goal
[06:27] <infinity> Samba 4 might actually release in edgy's timeframe, and I'd like to be prepared for that.  And Apache 2.2 will be in edgy before I get to Paris.
[06:27] <infinity> But other than those, I can't think of any amazingly interesting upstream stuff.
[06:27] <Burgundavia> infinity: Hula! they will release any decade now
[06:28] <ajmitch> having samba4 in edgy could be interesting, as it has its own ldap & kerberos setup, iirc
[06:28] <ajmitch> I've been looking at fedora directory server as well
[06:28] <ajmitch> might try & get that in if it can build properly
[06:28] <infinity> ajmitch: Yeah, it attempts to do the whole AD thing out of the box.
[06:28] <infinity> ajmitch: Which might be cool, if I have the spare cycles to make it go.
[06:28] <ajmitch> sort of makes what I'm doing relatively obsolete :)
[06:29] <infinity> ajmitch: Given edgy's "we don't care if it's broken" release philosophy, I may even opt for tossing a samba4 beta in, just for fun.
[06:30] <ajmitch> I didn't think it was even that close to beta
[06:30] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: does Sun produce PPC java?
[06:30] <infinity> ajmitch: It's passably useable.
[06:30] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: not that I've seen
[06:30] <ajmitch> they probably do, but I haven't had a ppc box to care about it
[06:30] <infinity> ajmitch: I think I'll register some spec time to discuss the current state of affairs and see where to go from there.
[06:31] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: does anybody? blackdown?
[06:31] <ajmitch> blackdown did, I think
[06:31] <ajmitch> I haven't kept up with the state of java
[06:31] <infinity> The current state of java is, as always, "poor".
[06:32] <Burgundavia> I am trying to rewrite wik.ubuntu.com/Java
[06:32] <infinity> If Sun comes through on their half-promise to relicense it under a free license, ports should pop up nearly instantly.
[06:32] <infinity> (Or the whole thing will just get eated by the GCC stack)
[06:32] <Burgundavia> wiki.ubuntu.com/Java
[06:32] <ajmitch> I should track down jelmer & see what samba4 stuff he has
[06:32] <infinity> s/eated/eaten/
[06:36] <ajmitch> hey AndyFitz 
[06:37] <AndyFitz> heya ajmitch
[06:44] <Burgundavia> infinity: do you know much about PPC Java?
[06:56] <Burgundavia> infinity: unping
[07:08] <fabbione> morning
[07:22] <ajmitch> morning fabbione 
[07:22] <tritium> it's night time, silly ;)
[07:22] <ajmitch> tritium: I'm sure it is, somewhere :)
[07:23] <tritium> yeah, here...good night :)
[07:23] <ajmitch> good night
[07:23] <ajmitch> sigh
[07:23] <ajmitch> why did some user decide to add https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Feature_Suggestions
[07:25] <fabbione> ajmitch: delete the page :)
[07:29] <bluefoxicy> Who is not particularly busy, because the dev I was annoying the fuck out of at 1am has gone to sleep and I have not got this package working quite right yet
[07:30] <bluefoxicy> dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory  <-- wtf?
[07:31] <bluefoxicy> also is there a more appropriate channel than #-devel or #-motu or whatnot to discuss building packages when you have no idea wtf you're doing and need help?
[07:31] <ajmitch> no, -motu is generally the one
[07:32] <bluefoxicy> oh ok
[07:32] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco 
[07:32] <jsgotangco> good afternoon
[07:37] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: you can redirect that edgy page to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityEdgyIdeas
[07:37] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: I will
[07:38] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: with extreme prejudice, if you please
[07:40] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: redirected
[07:40] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: sweet
[08:18] <pitti> Good morning
[08:18] <Burgundavia> morning pitti
[08:19] <ajmitch> morning pitti, how are you?
[08:25] <pitti> hey Burg
[08:26] <pitti> hi ajmitch 
[08:26] <pitti> ajmitch: pretty good, and you?
[08:26] <ajmitch> I'm good thanks :)
[08:29] <ajmitch> yeah
[08:29] <ajmitch> if only it'd actually keep up :)
[08:33] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  morning.
[08:34] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  can I pm you a couple things to look at before I sleep?
[08:37] <pitti> bluefoxicy: sure, I just have to urgently finish something
[08:48] <sivang> morning all
[08:48] <ajmitch> hi
[08:48] <sivang> hey ajmitch 
[09:43] <ubijtsa2> moin moin
[09:49] <dholbach> good morning
[09:49] <dholbach> so you reckon, I shouldn't upgrade my amd64?
[09:50] <ajmitch> depends on how brave you are
[09:51] <ajmitch> it only took a few seconds to resolve the issue on my system
[09:51] <ajmitch> only because I had a root shell open :)
[09:51] <sivang> ah, you've dist-upgrades already to edgy?
[09:51] <ajmitch> sivang: there's not really many changes yet
[09:52] <sivang> but Colin and Scott said that most of the toolchain is missing
[09:52] <ajmitch> yes, but that means I just don't get upgrades from dapper for those packages :)
[09:53] <ajmitch> they're trying to get the chroots setup correctly for building
[09:53] <pitti> hi dholbach 
[09:53] <ajmitch> & everything in place before the floodgates open
[09:53] <dholbach> heya pitti
[09:54] <dholbach> hahaha
[09:54] <dholbach> curiosity ...
[09:54] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:54] <ajmitch> pitti: it's just because I couldn't run sudo :)
[09:54] <dholbach> it's good I sometimes read the topics
[09:54] <sivang> well, for as long as I know pitti, he's doing it on a chroot :)
[09:54] <dholbach> I think I would have done the upgrade myself later today ;)
[09:55] <ajmitch> dholbach: I upgraded before it was in the topic :)
[09:55] <pitti> sivang: of course *not*
[09:55] <ajmitch> sivang: I did this in vmware, not my main system ;)
[09:55] <ajmitch> heh
[09:56] <giftnudel> oh well, you could always boot from a live cd, and hey, where is the fun if you already know what happens before you try it
[09:56] <ajmitch> giftnudel: no need to do that
[09:56] <giftnudel> ajmitch: well, yes, but it still is an option ;)
[09:56] <sivang> pitti: ah, oops
[09:56] <ajmitch> where's everyone's sense of adventure these days? ;)
[09:57] <pitti> ajmitch: so, what exactly broke? I can't see any difference right after dist-upgrade
[09:57] <ajmitch> pitti: /lib64 symlink
[09:57] <pitti> apart from having killed my locale
[09:58] <ajmitch> dpkg broke unpacking base-files, since it needed to depend on a newer glibc
[09:58] <ajmitch> which is probably built & in the archive now
[09:58] <cvd> Morning - Chris K here using cvds machine to get some emergency help
[09:58] <pitti> ajmitch: what's it supposed to be? I have /lib64 -> /lib
[09:58] <fabbione> cvd: go ahead dude
[09:58] <ajmitch> pitti: that's right
[09:58] <ajmitch> pitti: so nothing to worry about
[09:58] <pitti> ajmitch: I already dist-upgraded yesterday, btw (now again)
[09:58] <pitti> ajmitch: ah, thanks
[09:59] <pitti> sudo works fine
[09:59] <ajmitch> you'd quickly notice if it were broken.. not being able to run any programs at all
[09:59] <cvd> Logged into Ubuntu this morning and went to change the wireless network connection 
[09:59] <cvd> (I was at home last night using the home network)
[09:59] <cvd> When I login this morning, the wireless option in Network settings is not there
[10:00] <cvd> The only unusual event last night was that I ran our of juice and th machine went into an emergency shutdown
[10:00] <fabbione> cvd: what do you mean by "wireless option"?
[10:00] <cvd> Network settings
[10:01] <cvd> Wireless connection is what I meant
[10:01] <fabbione> i guess i will never be able to see that on my workstation...
[10:01] <fabbione> anybody with a laptop?
[10:01] <cvd> Instead I only have the Modem connection (I recall that there should be three options there)
[10:02] <giftnudel> cvd: yes, modem, ethernet, wlan
[10:02] <infinity> cvd: You mean in System->Preferences->Network?
[10:02] <cvd> yep
[10:02] <infinity> It doesn't show your wireless adapter at all?
[10:03] <glatzor> sivang: I hope that this is sufficient :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup/UI
[10:03] <cvd> System > Administration > Networking on my machine
[10:03] <infinity> cvd: Err, yeah, I meant that.
[10:03] <cvd> not at all
[10:03] <infinity> Awesome!
[10:04] <infinity> cvd: I don't suppose it magically loves you if you reboot?
[10:04] <cvd> Tried that twice
[10:04] <infinity> Right, then.  I blame Fabio.
[10:04] <fabbione> infinity: teh what?
[10:04] <infinity> fabbione: Can you walk her through debugging with ifconfig and dmesg and stuff?  I need to get back to mangling glibc and chroots.
[10:05] <fabbione> infinity: her -> him ;)
[10:05] <fabbione> infinity: it's chriss there.. 
[10:05] <fabbione> infinity: yeah i think i can try...
[10:05] <infinity> Oh, I don't pay attention much.
[10:05] <cvd> One machine down  - two staff out of action :-)
[10:05] <cvd> Thank Adam
[10:05] <fabbione> cvd: can you please send the output of iwconfig and dmesg somehwre we can read it please?
[10:06] <cvd> Of course
[10:07] <cvd> how?
[10:07] <fabbione> at least dhcp3 is broken on ppc/edgy
[10:07] <fabbione> cvd: good question...
[10:07] <cvd> Just rebooted for the third time and the Ethernet connection has re-appeared
[10:07] <fabbione> cvd: collect them on a usb stick and copy them somewhere?
[10:07] <fabbione> meh
[10:07] <cvd> Will reboot again and see if this thing heals itself
[10:08] <fabbione> ok
[10:08] <cvd> Actually that was the 4th time
[10:12] <fabbione> cvd: i hate to say it... your laptop sucks
[10:12] <cvd> And I thought getting the same laptop at Mark would logically mean that there were fewer problems
[10:12] <cvd> 5th login - back to only the Modem connection
[10:12] <jsgotangco> lol
[10:12] <fabbione> cvd: i need you to collect dmesg
[10:12] <fabbione> cvd: do this:
[10:13] <fabbione> dmesg > debug.output
[10:13] <fabbione> iwconfig >>  debug.output
[10:13] <fabbione> lspci >>  debug.output
[10:13] <fabbione> once that's done reboot till you get network
[10:13] <fabbione> and send the file somewhere i can read it
[10:14] <fabbione> (and no sorry.. Mark's laptop is older than your.. produced by IBM and not some cheap Lenovo thingy)
[10:15] <cvd> Thats all in the Terminal services...?
[10:15] <fabbione> you need to do it in a terminal and mnually
[10:15] <pitti> bah, new libc breaks locales horribly
[10:15] <fabbione> pitti: they also break dhpc on ppc
[10:15] <fabbione> locale was already known
[10:16] <cvd> Cool will get onto it
[10:16] <jdub> hrm
[10:17] <jdub> how do you get n-m to ignore an interface that you want to configure auto/dhcp?
[10:17] <cvd> Fabio - Do you > mean return or simply the symbol
[10:17] <shawarma> jdub: Put it into interfaces..
[10:17] <infinity> jdub: You don
[10:17] <giftnudel> jdub: doesn't it ignore it if it it is activated in the network-config?
[10:17] <giftnudel> -it
[10:17] <infinity> jdub: You don't.  Our n-m implementation assumes that it can take over anything that's dhcp/auto.
[10:17] <jdub> shawarma, giftnudel: no -> auto+dhcp
[10:18] <infinity> jdub: The only way to make it ignore it is to remove networkmanager.
[10:18] <pitti> jdub: set any option in /e/n/interfaces
[10:18] <jdub> infinity: can't set hostname or something token?
[10:18] <fabbione> cvd: the symbol
[10:18] <jdub> pitti: aha :)
[10:18] <fabbione> cvd: execute the commands exactly as i pasted them.. 
[10:19] <shawarma> jdub: I see. I thought it left it alone as long as the interface was mentioned in interfaces.
[10:19] <jdub> shawarma: if it's configured auto+dhcp, NM will use it
[10:19] <shawarma> jdub: Yeah, that makes sense.
[10:24] <cvd> Fabbione:  'dmesg'  produces lots of information 'dmesg > debug.output' does nothing
[10:24] <fabbione> cvd: the latter is writing all the output into the file called debug.output
[10:24] <fabbione> i need the file once you have done
[10:24] <cvd> okay
[10:24] <fabbione> be aware of the ">>" in the next commands
[10:24] <fabbione> it's important
[10:28] <cvd> Fab: when you say reboot till you get the network  - can you explain?
[10:29] <pygi> sivang, poke? :)
[10:29] <fabbione> cvd: reboot -> does the network work? [yes|no]  -> yes -> perfect.. no -> reboot again
[10:29] <fabbione> cvd: i need to look at that file to try to understand what's going on
[10:30] <cvd> When you say the file do you mean the txt that was showing in the Term Services window
[10:30] <cvd> And do you want me to grab it before I reoboot
[10:30] <fabbione> once the file is written on the hd, you can just get the network up and send it via email.
[10:31] <fabbione> cvd: all the commands you did run before, did write all their info into a file called debug.output
[10:31] <fabbione> a txt file
[10:31] <fabbione> this file is on your hd
[10:31] <cvd> That would be where
[10:31] <fabbione> now you need to find a way to show it to me
[10:32] <fabbione> the easiest is to reboot, get the network to work again and send it via email
[10:32] <fabbione> are we on the same page now?
[10:32] <fabbione> otherwise use whatever way to send it to me..
[10:32] <fabbione> it doesn't really matter..
[10:34] <cvd> On it now
[10:35] <glatzor> does anybody know what the mount option "unhide" does?
[10:36] <glatzor> I don't understand the manual
[10:39] <sivang> pygi: pong
[10:41] <cvd> fabbione:  file should be with you
[10:42] <pygi> sivang, pm 
[10:50] <cvd> fabbione:  Problem solved
[10:50] <fabbione> cvd: i am reading the log.. 
[10:50] <fabbione> one minute please
[10:51] <cvd> Not required issue resolved
[10:51] <cvd> But thanks for the help
[10:51] <fabbione> cvd: what was the issue?=
[10:51] <cvd> Not sure I want to say it in public
[10:52] <fabbione> cvd: if saying it in public will require the help of a shrink, we want to know it NOW
[10:52] <infinity> cvd: Wireless adapter was a PCMCIA card, and it wasn't plugged in?
[10:53] <fabbione> infinity: there must be. it's a t60
[10:53] <fabbione> no pcmcia wireless card
[10:53] <cvd> CKenyon is now going to logon as himself and explain
[10:53] <infinity> You can buy a T60 without wireless, though I'm not sure why you WOULD.
[10:53] <fabbione> cvd: thanks lady
[10:53] <\sh> dear god, please replace RPM with something better...kthxamen
[10:53] <cvd> thanks fabbione 
[10:53] <siretart> \sh: but it is defacto standard sanctioned by LSB!!!
[10:54] <ajmitch> siretart: which shows how relevant it is
[10:54] <infinity> fabbione: The T60 though, does have a hardware "wireless disable" switch.
[10:54] <infinity> fabbione: So that's an equally fun bet for "embarassing explanations".
[10:54] <fabbione> infinity: yes.. that's what i am thinking too
[10:55] <fabbione> but i want to hear that
[10:55] <ajmitch> infinity: would it cause the interface to not show up?
[10:55] <infinity> ajmitch: It's meant to do so, yes.
[10:55] <jsgotangco> yes
[10:55] <infinity> ajmitch: It's meant to hotplug it right off the PCI bus.
[10:55] <ajmitch> interesting, I'm sure my acer does it differently
[10:56] <ajmitch> right
[10:56] <Ckenyon> Morning all
[10:56] <Ckenyon> So where do I begin
[10:56] <ajmitch> however acers aren't known for their great hardware
[10:56] <siretart> the interface itself should show up, but i've seen drivers which need to be 'ifconfig up'ed so they advertise themself as 'wireless' device
[10:56] <infinity> Ckenyon: Begin with the embarassing part.
[10:56] <Ckenyon> The fact that I turned off the wireless switch on the front of the machine
[10:56] <infinity> I win!
[10:56] <ajmitch> infinity collects the pool
[10:56] <Ckenyon> Or the fact that I triggered the alarm to the building when I walk in this morning
[10:57] <jsgotangco> multiplier bonus!
[10:57] <Kamion> d-i in having better technology than the rest of the system shocker ;-)
[10:57] <Kamion> it would have noticed ...
[10:57] <Ckenyon> Or the fact that I spend 20 minutes arguing with alarm company explaining 'No I am not a burglar phoning you as part of an elaborate ploy to stop you turning up'
[10:58] <dholbach> haha
[10:58] <ajmitch> ah, one of those days
[10:58] <dholbach> Ckenyon: the rest of the day will be better! :-)
[10:58] <Kamion> (if anyone wants to fix GNOME to notice kill switches, see netcfg/netcfg-common.c:check_kill_switch() for how to detect it
[10:58] <Kamion> )
[10:58] <Ckenyon> Or the fact that that my effort to get in an hour early has now meant that I am two hours behind
[10:59] <Kamion> basically /sys/class/net/<interface>/device/rf_kill, at least for ipw2[12] 00
[10:59] <infinity> Kamion: I assume that only works for RF kill switches.
[10:59] <infinity> Kamion: (Some laptops use a more drastic "bump it off the PCI bus" approach)
[10:59] <Kamion> infinity: ah, fun
[10:59] <Ckenyon> sivang - Funny  - that's exactly what the alarm company said
[10:59] <Ckenyon> Many thanks for the help - I look forward to meeting y'all in Paris
[11:00] <sivang> Ckenyon: heh, what will you be up to in Paris?
[11:01] <infinity> Kamion: Care to re-remind me about that preseed upload/build sometime when the buildds aren't all angrily bootstrapping edgy?
[11:01] <\sh> siretart: well, reading the doc from redhat, RPM can do some OR dependencies like | in debian/control...somehow suse doesn't support this operator in sles9 :(
[11:01] <infinity> Kamion: Say, Mondayish? :)
[11:01] <infinity> Kamion: (Hopefully, we'll be back in fullauto then, and there'll be no need to remind me anyway)
[11:01] <Kamion> infinity: I'm on holiday all next week
[11:01] <Kamion> so not really, no ;-)
[11:02] <infinity> Kamion: Oh, right.  That'll make this fun...
[11:02] <Kamion> on holiday and nowhere near any computers, as it happens
[11:02] <infinity> Kamion: Kay, I'll just make a mental note then.  Have fun VACing.
[11:02] <infinity> Kamion: Toss a few back for me.
[11:02] <Kamion> thanks
[11:02] <infinity> (Only a few; I'm not Irish)
[11:03] <Kamion> so somebody else will have to drive debian-installer uploads to -updates and such
[11:03] <infinity> Kamion: Or we can do it in Paris, since Fabio will be at home anyway, sitting next the sparc test gear. :)
[11:03] <infinity> (And we'll have the soyuz guys at arm's length to smack them if it breaks)
[11:03] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you need to walk me through how to release sparc, too.
[11:04] <infinity> s/if/when/, I fear.
[11:04] <giftnudel> I think there should be weekly quizzes about the most frequent bug numbers
[11:05] <sivang> Kamion: the IBM guy I'm supposed to meet wanted to set a meeting for next week, I'll tell him to reschedule and we could talk about it some more in Paris before I actually go and test there.
[11:06] <dholbach> ah it's bug 34435
[11:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34435 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "Cairo and ATI RENDER extension cause scrambled buttons in UbuntuLooks" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34435
[11:06] <Ckenyon> sivang: The Edgey meeting in Paris
[11:07] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I *think* something along the lines of 'ARCHES=sparc CDIMAGE_NO_PURGE=1 for-project ubuntu publish-release daily ../ubuntu-server/daily/$DATE server yes' should do it
[11:07] <sivang> Ckenyon: cool, I suppose you are in close proximity to Claire then, if you used cvd's nick :-)
[11:07] <Kamion> Mithrandir: (yes, hacky)
[11:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: what does CDIMAGE_NO_PURGE do?  Not remove the other arches?
[11:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: but if I were you I'd do 'cp -a cdimage/simple simple-backup' first and check HEADER.html, .htaccess, and MD5SUMS carefully before and afterwards
[11:08] <Kamion> er, not cp -a
[11:08] <Kamion> cp -al
[11:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: right
[11:08] <Ckenyon> Based in London on the business team
[11:08] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, I'll do that
[11:08] <Kamion> hmm, cdimage will need a little work to pull from -security/-updates for the next dapper build IIRC
[11:10] <infinity> Oh, halleluja, gcc-4.1 is sinally building everywhere.
[11:11] <Kamion> particularly to pull d-i from updates. eek.
[11:12] <\sh> I wonder how "
[11:12] <\sh> A common reason to install a new driver on a Linux system is to gain
[11:12] <\sh>  access to the Interne
[11:12] <\sh> t
[11:13] <\sh> is achieved by installing a compiler, because there is no internet connection. most probaly no one is coming to me, with the source module on disk or cd for the driver anyways
[11:14] <Kamion> I dunno, I don't think it's unheard of
[11:15] <infinity> I have exactly one piece of hardware with a source tarball on the driver disk.
[11:16] <infinity> And it's a RAID controller, so the compiler being installed probably won't help me. :)
[11:16] <infinity> (Might help to have it in -live, I guess)
[11:18] <siretart> fabbione: great. but please start with a libstdc++-udeb first ;)
[11:18] <\sh> infinity: this would be a real use-case for a gcc on -live...many driver sources are waiting in universe anyways, so we would provide more and more unsupported systems
[11:18] <fabbione> \sh: that would horribly break at the first kernel abi bump
[11:19] <\sh> fabbione: or sure :)
[11:20] <\sh> s/or/for/
[11:27] <infinity> (Upgrading to edgy no longer requires rescuing from a boot disk.  Probably still completely broken, but not "boot disk" broken)
[11:27] <ajmitch> yay
[11:28] <\sh> infinity: already a working edgy debootstrap package available?
[11:28] <Kamion> \sh: no
[11:28] <ajmitch> I think that will be 'soon'
[11:29] <Kamion> I can do that as soon as I've finished fixing cdimage to pull d-i stuff from security/updates
[11:29] <infinity> \sh: No point.  deboostrap dapper, make sources.list say "edgy", and you have an edgy chroot.
[11:29] <infinity> \sh: The whopping two packages that will get upgraded when you do a dist-upgrade shouldn't be too much of a problem. :)
[11:30] <\sh> infinity: hehe...
[11:30] <fabbione> infinity: modulo dhcp breaking down :)
[11:30] <infinity> fabbione: Who has a dhcp client in a chroot? :)
[11:30] <fabbione> infinity: well i did upgrade live on my PB
[11:30] <\sh> oh man..someone broke our nameserver...
[11:30] <fabbione> I am a man! i run edgy!
[11:31] <mdke> heh
[11:32] <\sh> "And in the right corner, the man who is running Edgy from start, Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome, Fabbione, the Italian Stallion...." 
[11:32] <fabbione> rofl
[11:32] <\sh> hehe
[11:32] <sivang> godfather
[11:34] <mdke> Znarl: ping
[11:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, I *think* cdimage is set up to pull everything (including the installer) from -security and -updates if necessary for dapper builds now
[11:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: there's a certain amount of untested code in there, though, so feel free to bug-fix if necessary next week ...
[11:35] <Kamion> )
[11:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yay. :-)
[11:35] <Kamion> (bzr branches are good if you do)
[11:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's bzr now, right?
[11:35] <Kamion> yeah
[11:35] <Mithrandir> coolie
[11:35] <Kamion> see cdimage/.bzr/branch/parent and cdimage/debian-cd/.bzr/branch/parent for URLs
[11:37] <Kamion> free of local diffs now, for your comfort and convenience
[12:13] <infinity> Kamion: As far as you know, once I've done the toolchain bootstrap and the dpkg/debhelper/cdbs stuff, should we be okay to set the buildds to full auto?
[12:29] <Kamion> infinity: that's all I know of
[12:31] <infinity> Ooo, the GCC testsuite on i386 is half done...
[12:32] <infinity> Err, argh.
[12:32] <infinity> It runs the suite twice?
[12:32] <infinity> Once for -march=i486 and once for -march=i686
[12:32] <infinity> Feh.
[12:34] <doko> infinity: yes, that works mostly now, could disable that again
[12:37] <Kamion> $ ../germinate/germinate.py --bzr -m http://riva/ubuntu/ -S sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds -s ubuntu.edgy -d edgy --no-rdepends
[12:37] <Kamion> sweet, works
[01:09] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/ubuntu-meta/ubuntu-meta-0.119>$ ../../germinate/germinate/update-metapackage.py --bzr dapper
[01:09] <Kamion> [...] 
[01:09] <Kamion> * Checking out sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.dapper/
[01:10] <Kamion> that'll do nicely
[01:10] <Keybuk> \o/
[01:10] <Keybuk> sftp, not http?
[01:12] <Kamion> can do either
[01:12] <Kamion> http requires branch rather than checkout though
[01:12] <Kamion> I used sftp to guarantee avoiding the supermirror-is-slow-to-pull-to-http problem
[01:13] <Kamion> (and to demonstrate that it can be direct)
[01:14] <jordi> Kamion: do you think using archive-copier is a good start to modify sarge's installer to build a pool out of the contents of a dvd?
[01:14] <Kamion> I don't quite get what you mean
[01:15] <jordi> So we want to build a pool out of the contents of the dvd at d-i time, so that after the reboot, base-config can use a file apt repo
[01:16] <Kamion> oh right, sure, archive-copier's probably a reasonable place to start for that
[01:16] <jordi> I wondered if modifying archive-copier to get it integrated in d-i would be sensible
[01:16] <Kamion> modifying locally, sure, but there's no point for mainline d-i now
[01:16] <jordi> Kamion: ok. archive-copier only copies to apt's cache iirc?
[01:17] <Kamion> apt's cache, /var/cache/archive-copier/desktop/, /var/cache/archive-copier/ship/
[01:17] <jordi> nm, the dvd already has a pool structure, so the copy is pretty straight forward
[01:17] <jordi> nod
[01:17] <jordi> ok, thanks!
[01:17] <Kamion> needs a small bit of base-config integration to move the latter two into the right places at the right times to avoid being cleaned up by base-config etc.
[01:17] <jordi> should I use breezy's, or the latest version in the pool?
[01:17] <Kamion> may need apt-setup integration too
[01:18] <Kamion> probably use breezy's, it's basically dead in dapper
[01:18] <Kamion> I plan to drop it from the archive in edgy
[01:18] <jordi> aha. I probably just need to drop the whole pool in /net/archive pool. reprepro can do the rest after d-i
[01:19] <Kamion> yeah, it's easy enough to tweak the postinst
[01:19] <jordi> yeah, I realised breezy looked like the best option from the changelog
[01:19] <jordi> ok. I'll have a look
[01:19] <jordi> thanks!
[01:19] <Kamion> note it kind of relies on either Task or Archive-Copier-Set headers at present, but there's no reason you couldn't change it to copy everything minus base or something like that
[01:19] <Kamion> have fun :)
[01:19] <jordi> why minus base?
[01:20] <jordi> the goal is to build a full mirror out of the dvd
[01:20] <jordi> currently we install from dvd, then build a mirror from the dvd
[01:20] <jordi> ie, two reads
[01:20] <Kamion> oh, you want to copy the stuff that's already installed as well?
[01:20] <Kamion> ok
[01:20] <jordi> yeah
[01:20] <Kamion> this is an automatic mirror machine installer or something?
[01:23] <pygi> hey ogra 
[01:23] <jordi> no, it's our classroom server installer. After the install, there's a script that builds a mirror either from http, dvd, or whatever you tell it to use
[01:23] <jordi> then the classroom workstations can get installed from that server's mirror
[01:23] <jordi> or update, whatever
[01:24] <Kamion> ah, right
[01:24] <pitti> jordi: hey dude, how are you?
[01:24] <pitti> jordi: can I talk to you for some minutes?
[01:24] <jordi> pitti: sleepy!
[01:24] <jordi> pitti: totally
[01:25] <pitti> jordi: so, carlos and I talked about langpack updating yesterday
[01:25] <pitti> jordi: do you generally agree that it's a sane thing to upload new langpacks into stables on the 1st Monday of every month?
[01:25] <pitti> jordi: so that the translators have a predictable schedule
[01:26] <jordi> pitti: 1st of month sounds like a very easy date to remember by everyone.
[01:26] <pitti> jordi: first Monday, to ensure it's a workday
[01:26] <pygi> jordi, 1st monday :P
[01:26] <pitti> (usuallY)
[01:27] <jordi> oh lol
[01:27] <jordi> did I comment I'm sleepy :D
[01:27] <jordi> Ok, 1st monday is also easy to remember :)
[01:31] <pitti> jordi: also, do you think we should do the first dapper update earlier? like, mid-month
[01:31] <jordi> pitti: possibly, becasuse there's probably many last minute work that didn't make it
[01:31] <jordi> i suggested this in some email exchange
[01:32] <jordi> if it's not too expensive, I would do it
[01:32] <pitti> jordi: not at all; we have daily sources and debs anyway on people
[01:32] <pitti> jordi: it's just a matter of prodding an LP guy to upload them
[01:33] <jordi> nod
[01:33] <jordi> Then I think it's a good idea
[01:33] <pitti> jordi: OK, so let's commit to June 14
[01:34] <jordi> okay
[01:34] <pitti> jordi: I'll write an announcement soon
[01:34] <jordi> Yeah. I'll speak to mdke about documenting this officially in help.u.c
[01:35] <zul> hey
[01:36] <pitti> hi zul
[01:36] <zul> hey pitti how is it going?
[01:37] <pitti> zul: pretty good, *-security is finally fully working now
[01:37] <zul> including my gpg key?
[01:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: can you sync germinate from incoming, please? (or tell me I can do it)
[01:43] <Kamion> I want to get the *-meta changes through before I go off on holiday
[01:44] <Kamion> germinate 0.16
[01:44] <Keybuk> sure, no problem
[01:44] <Keybuk> Debian's incoming?
[01:45] <Kamion> yeah
[01:46] <Keybuk> done
[01:49] <Kamion> thanks
[01:49] <Kamion> (not a trout, for a change)
[01:52] <Keybuk> mmmm....trout
[01:54] <sivang> heh, roasted or boiled ?
[01:55] <thom> raw.
[01:56] <Keybuk> baked
[01:56] <Keybuk> ooh, sushi!
[01:57] <thom> sushi ftw.
[01:58] <_ion> Eww.
[01:58] <dholbach> heno: I just read your comments to the FutureOfGst spec... the at / keyboard properties are part of control-center, not gnome-system-tools
[02:02] <heno> dholbach: ah, ok. does the control-center need some love as well? ;)
[02:02] <sivang> hmm, future of gst?
[02:02] <ogra> Keybuk, i just saw you have a boot-message-logging spec, there was a bootlogd spec from UDU you might probably look at
[02:03] <sivang> does it say something about rewiritng the backends in pyhton? :p
[02:03] <ogra> s/look/want to look/
[02:03] <dholbach> heno: there are lots of modules which could do with some love
[02:03] <sivang> heno: is the spec regsitered in Launchpad ?
[02:03] <dholbach> sivang: FutureOfGst on the wiki
[02:05] <heno> how many Paris specs does it typically make sense to subscribe to? ie. how many tracks is it sensible to follow?
[02:05] <Keybuk> ogra: I think that spec varies a hell of a lot depending on replacement-init
[02:06] <tseng> heno: there is a new bof every 45 minutes
[02:06] <ogra> Keybuk, ok i just thought they could be related 
[02:07] <Keybuk> ogra: what was the UDU spec?
[02:07] <ogra> it think it was just called Bootlogd
[02:07] <heno> tseng: but there are parallel sessions right, and some specs have several BOFs on different days
[02:07] <Kamion> was probably looking at the sysvinit bootlogd code
[02:08] <tseng> heno: yes.. scheduling is tricky
[02:08] <Kamion> heno: yes, the scheduler tries to get you to as many of the ones you're subscribed to as it can, and will make sure you're at anything where you're the assignee or the drafter
[02:08] <heno> I'm just looking for a round number. I guess signing up for 20 is too many and 5 is too few
[02:08] <Kamion> at least that's how it's worked before
[02:08] <ogra> Keybuk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/BootLogd
[02:09] <heno> Kamion: ok, I've got almost 10 of those already :)
[02:09] <Kamion> I'm subscribed to about 15 for this round which my gut feel says is about reasonable
[02:09] <heno> cool, thanks
[02:09] <Kamion> if you have a very large number of specs that you're drafting or being assigned to, you may find it difficult to get to many others
[02:09] <heno> right
[02:10] <Kamion> I had IIRC 8 assigned to me or that I was drafting last time round, and some of those were pretty chunky, so I didn't get round many of the others
[02:10] <Kamion> I'm proposing 6 this time which I think will give me a more reasonable load
[02:11] <heno> I've got several that were basically drafted complete weeks ago that I just want other people to look at
[02:11] <Kamion> ah, those will be much quicker then since they'll probably be a single session
[02:11] <heno> including two SoC ones
[02:22] <\sh> Ubuntus developer summits are not fun..it's hard work, even for community people :)
[02:23] <eXistenZ> There is some wiki that includes the tools required for packaging
[02:23] <eXistenZ> Can anyone direct me to that link?
[02:24] <sivang> dholbach: nice spec, I'm in for it :) (FutureOfGst)
[02:26] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'll set u-m-f-b as "implemented" then, shall I? :p
[02:26] <Kamion> Keybuk: I just did :)
[02:26] <Keybuk> Kamion: I mean uncheck "needs further discussioN"
[02:26] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh, sure
[02:26] <Keybuk> the thing that stops it appearing in the schedule
[02:26] <Kamion> implemented should imply that :P
[02:27] <Keybuk> Kamion: I recall having a "But it's implemented! ... you still need to write the spec" conversation before
[02:27] <Kamion> also perhaps "basic direction approved"
[02:27] <Keybuk> talking of which, niiiice empty spec <g>
[02:27] <Keybuk> heh, TICK ALL THE BOXES!
[02:27] <Kamion> unless you want to do a code review before that ;)
[02:27] <Kamion> I can write a spec if you REALLY want
[02:27] <Kamion> it might be shorter than the code, I guess
[02:28] <Keybuk> I care not
[02:33] <eXistenZ> anyone? :|
[02:35] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh well, wrote a quick spec anyway
[02:35] <Keybuk> Kamion: are you bored? :p
[02:35] <ogra> heh
[02:36] <Kamion> I'm lacking in things that will take four hours and that I can then drop for a week
[02:38] <infinity> eXistenZ: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/
[02:39] <ogra> eXistenZ, yelp has the ubuntu packaging guide
[02:47] <eXistenZ> infinity, ogra, thanks ;-)
[03:16] <pitti> G0SUB: ping
[03:25] <eXistenZ> infinity, How can I edit my wiki page by the way? 
[03:32] <Kamion> infinity: do you want gcc-4.1 NEWed on amd64?
[03:33] <infinity> Kamion: If you feel the urge, sure.
[03:34] <infinity> Kamion: I'm waiting on all arches before I publish it, but if you want to do the binaries as they roll in, that's cool.
[03:34] <infinity> Kamion: I'm off for some dinner and wife time before I come back and keep going with the toolchain.
[03:34] <infinity> Kamion: Oh, and i386 should have just showed up.
[03:36] <Kamion> yeah
[03:37] <Kamion> I'm sort of guessing at components, but there you go
[03:42] <Kamion> ok, amd64 and i386 accepted
[03:44] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:48] <Kamion> infinity: set up britney output for edgy now
[03:48] <Kamion> s/set/I've set/
[03:48] <bddebian> Britney? I think we need a Jessica :-)
[03:49] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/jessica.txt
[03:49] <Kamion> way ahead of you
[03:49] <bddebian> W00t, rock on Kamion :-)
[03:50] <Kamion> speaking of ...
[03:57] <highvoltage> is edgy open :)
[03:58] <pygi> highvoltage, which time is that :P
[03:58] <ogra> highvoltage, yes, but still missing the basics ... we'll have to wait 
[03:58] <highvoltage> pygi: time for a dist-upgrade :)
[03:59] <pygi> highvoltage, lol :)
[03:59] <highvoltage> heh (just joking)
[04:02] <Kamion> infinity: gcc-4.1/powerpc accepted
[04:03] <iwj> pitti: My 1.5.0.4 for breezy built, btw.
[04:03] <pitti> iwj: yay
[04:04] <Kamion> BenC: btw, I figure we'll hold off on NEWing linux-source-2.6.17 until the toolchain is more or less together :)
[04:23] <iwj> I'm currently trying to get this breezy chroot to a state where I can test it.
[04:26] <pitti> iwj: 'dchroot -c breezy -d "bash -l"' works for me (this keeps environment stuff intact), and bind-mounting /tmp to get the X socket
[04:31] <Keybuk> bind-mounting /tmp ... eww :p
[04:31] <Keybuk> could be worse, at least you're not bind-mounting *into* /tmp
[04:31] <Keybuk> I have a little evil chuckle every time someone does that in their fstab
[04:32] <pitti> Keybuk: what's wrong with that?
[04:32] <Keybuk> pitti: bind-mounting part of your filesystem into /tmp ?
[04:32] <Keybuk> so you have /tmp/usr or something?
[04:32] <pitti>  /tmp on /home/dchroot/breezy/tmp type none (rw,bind)
[04:32] <pitti> Keybuk: just /tmp itself, so that I get the X socket and stuff in my chroots
[04:33] <Keybuk> that's ok
[04:33] <Keybuk> just a bit eww :p
[04:33] <Keybuk> it's the other way around that's funny
[04:33] <pitti> Keybuk: do you have a more elegant idea?
[04:33] <Keybuk> no, it's just eww :p
[04:33] <pitti> I can live with that :)
[04:33] <iwj> pitti: Yes, yes, but I've just discovered that it didn't have ubuntu-desktop installed ...
[04:33] <iwj> And I don't bind mount /tmp, just /tmp/.X11-unix
[04:33] <Keybuk> (for those playing along at home, if you do it the other way around, and bind-mounts bits of your filesystem *into* /tmp ... you'll lose half your filesystem when you reboot)
[04:34] <pitti> *cough* :)
[04:34] <ogra> pfft, who cares, we all have backups, dont we ? :P
[04:39] <desrt> mjg59; pingage
[04:40] <desrt> mjg59; i just got an email from a chap who owns a macmini who has been reading my dapper-on-macbook page and has the same problems with resume from sleep
[04:40] <desrt> mjg59; specifically, the PCI thing and the IRQ9 thing
[04:41] <desrt> mjg59; so we now have another example of an ICH7 machine with the SCI_EN bug
[04:49] <desrt> hello pitti :)
[04:50] <pitti> desrt: whoever this julie is, she isn't interesting enough to let you forget your computer? :-P
[04:50] <desrt> well
[04:50] <Hobbsee> desrt: hope your computer doesnt overheat!
[04:50] <desrt> she's only here in vorbis form
[04:50] <desrt> so i doubt she minds
[04:50] <pitti> heh
[04:50] <desrt> Hobbsee; it's odd
[04:51] <desrt> Hobbsee; either my laptop has actually been getting cooler or i'm just not noticing it as much :)
[04:51] <Hobbsee> heeh
[04:51] <desrt> all of the new apple laptops are quite well known for that
[04:51] <dholbach> ogra's laptop as well, right ogra?
[04:52] <ogra> does julie warm you enough ?
[04:52] <ogra> *warm you up
[04:52] <desrt> apple has a knowledge base article basically saying "stop bitching.  we know it gets hot.  that's just how it is"
[04:52] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:52] <desrt> ogra; it's very warm music
[04:52] <desrt> Hobbsee; i'm actually really happy with this machine
[04:54] <Kamion> desrt: s/new //; AlBooks use the case as a heatsink, effectively
[04:54] <desrt> Kamion; my albook didn't get this hot
[04:54] <desrt> Kamion; nor did the ibook which preceeded it
[04:54] <Kamion> it's ok as long as you keep it reasonably well-ventilated; can be a problem if you're in a hot environment and you have it on a desk
[04:55] <ogra> my ibook gets very hot if i have it on my lap
[04:55] <Hobbsee> ogra: but computers arent supposed to be on laps at all, are they?  :P
[04:55] <jsgotangco> ouch don't let it stay on your lap too much
[04:56] <ogra> Hobbsee, well, thats how i work most of the time :)
[04:56] <jsgotangco> ouch
[04:56] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:56] <Hobbsee> guess there are at least a couple of advantages of being female - i dont have to worry about such things :P
[04:56] <Hobbsee> mind you, laptops do seem to stay cooler when on laps...
[04:57] <zul> not if they dont have a fan
[04:57] <Hobbsee> true
[04:57] <desrt> well
[04:57] <desrt> apple has fans
[04:57] <Kamion> Hobbsee: I find they make my thighs painfully hot, not other parts of my anatomy; not sure being female would help there
[04:57] <desrt> they just don't run them enough
[04:57] <Hobbsee> most laptops have fan, i would assume
[04:57] <desrt> it's to the point where they'll do this *dumb* thing where the fan spins up for 1 second every 3 seconds
[04:58] <iwj> No, this is no good, yelp is broken already before I install my test.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> Kamion: yeah, that is a point.
[04:58] <desrt> which (a) makes it louder and (b) probably consumes more power in the longrun and (c) doesn't cool as effectively
[04:58] <pitti> iwj: we probably have to rebuild yelp, epiphany, etc. against 1.5
[04:58] <pitti> iwj: I hope that it'll be just that, and not actually bump upstream version of yelp&friends
[04:58] <iwj> Yes, but I wanted to check.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> desrt: ah, you cant set that in the bios at all?
[04:58] <desrt> pitti; did you find out if you're attending guadec yet?
[04:58] <iwj> But this chroot is so broken it can't run yelp.
[04:58] <desrt> Hobbsee; no.  closed-source firmware >:|
[04:59] <Hobbsee> ah, darn it.
[04:59] <desrt> y'all must be in france right now?  (or soon?)
[04:59] <pitti> desrt: in two weeks
[04:59] <Kamion> one and a bit week
[05:00] <pitti> desrt: and no, I won't go to guadec, there are some large family events I have to attend to
[05:00] <pitti> oh, indeed
[05:00] <desrt> dude
[05:00] <pitti> darn, time flies like an arrow
[05:00] <desrt> guadec is a large family event if i've ever heard of one
[05:00] <desrt> large event for a large family :)
[05:01] <pitti> iwj: interesting, yelp in my breezy chroot displays the initial page (partly) and then just crashes with a 'glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer'
[05:01] <pitti> iwj: even if I stop all running firefoxes
[05:02] <desrt> isn't iwj normally called something else?
[05:02] <pitti> desrt: not any more, since he got a sane irc client :)
[05:03] <iwj> pitti: Yes, that's what it does for me.
[05:03] <iwj> And as previously discussed an actual breezy install doesn't, for me.
[05:03] <pitti> same here
[05:04] <desrt> O_o
[05:04] <iwj> Oh, you've tried to install breezy without success ?
[05:04] <HobbseePitchfork> desrt: hmm?
[05:04] <desrt> doning a pitchfork?
[05:05] <HobbseePitchfork> desrt: yes.
[05:05] <pitti> iwj: oh, I thought you mean 'it doesn't crash in a real breezy install'
[05:05] <HobbseePitchfork> it makes an excellent weapon.
[05:05] <desrt> running bsd?
[05:05] <iwj> No, I mean, I can't install breezy.  It crashes during boot.
[05:07] <iwj> Well, if your chroot is broken too then I won't bother trying to make a new one with debootstrap.
[05:07] <iwj> But I'm sort of running out of ideas.
[05:08] <pitti> iwj: you could put the .deb somewhere (for amd64), or the source package, and as soon as I have bandwidth again, I could test it
[05:08] <iwj> Sure.
[05:09] <pitti> still odd that breezy doesn't boot
[05:09] <pitti> iwj: the live CD fails as well?
[05:09] <pitti> this would make an excellent testbed, too
[05:09] <iwj> pitti: I haven't tried the livecd yet.  I'm not sure I have a breezy livecd floating around.
[05:14] <iwj> No, it seems I don't have a breezy livecd and I'm not sure I want to put downloading one into the dependency chain here.
[05:17] <iwj> pitti: My stuff is rsyncing and will be available eventually.
[05:17] <iwj> I think if I'm going to be involved in security support for breezy I'm going to need a working install.
[05:17] <pitti> iwj: what crashes on the installer CD?
[05:18] <iwj> pitti: It gets through the install, but after the reboot it flashes up the grub and then crashes.
[05:24] <iwj> pitti: Do you have a copy of the 1.5.0.4 orig.tar.gz from Debian ?  If so I can supply you with just the diff as soon as my computer has constructed it.
[05:24] <iwj> That might be faster than waiting for the binaries to go up and down again.
[05:24] <pitti> iwj: no, unfortunately not
[05:24] <iwj> Oh, OK.
[05:24] <iwj> Well, there goes my uplink I suppose :-).
[05:24] <pitti> iwj: as soon as it's in dapper-security and my bw is back, I'll update my mirror and will have it
[05:25] <pitti> iwj: yes, if you just upload diff.gz/dsc that'll be fine for me
[05:25] <iwj> Oh, OK.
[05:26] <iwj> I've told it not to sign it because I don't really think it should go into the archive right now :-).
[05:38] <iwj> pitti: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/, has binaries, .diff, .dsc, and pro-forma .changes.
[05:38] <iwj> I haven't tested those _at all_ so it may crash on startup etc.
[05:38] <iwj> But it does build.
[05:38] <pitti> iwj: thanks; however, I'm afraid that I won't be able to test them before Monday
[05:39] <bddebian> heh
[05:39] <Hobbsee> pitti: better not curse it too much, otherwise it might up and die on you :P
[05:40] <iwj> pitti: Sure.
[05:40] <iwj> Also, it's too hot here and I'm thinking very slowly.
[05:49] <pygi> jdub, you have sec?
[05:52] <\sh> ok..driving home from karlsruhe...cu later in the evening, hoping that germany will lose the first soccer match *eg*
[05:52] <bddebian> Later \sh
[06:12] <mdke> Kamion: I forgot to remind you about having a look at the Livecd customisation wiki page after dapper released, so consider yourself reminded
[06:12] <mdke> oh, but he's gone on holiday hasn't he
[06:12] <mdke> i _suck_
[06:12] <Kamion> mdke: not quite but I'm in the "argh must finish packing" mode, so now's quite a bad time :)
[06:13] <mdke> Kamion: ok, fair enough. It'll be for when you come back then, unless you can recommend someone else 
[06:13] <mdke> recommend stroke delegate
[06:14] <Kamion> Mithrandir's a good vict^Wcandidate for live CD stuff
[06:15] <mdke> thanks
[06:15] <mdke> have a nice holiday!
[06:15] <bddebian> heh
[06:15] <pitti> Kamion: enjoy the free days, see you in Paris!
[06:16] <Kamion> yup, see y'all there
[06:17] <LaserJock> \o/
[06:17] <bddebian> Not me :-(
[06:18] <bddebian> Though you are probably happy about that ;-P
[06:18] <mdke> bddebian: we will sulk together
[06:18] <bddebian> mdke: You aren't going?
[06:18] <Mithrandir> Kamion: enjoy your vacation.
[06:19] <mdke> bddebian: nope
[06:19] <bddebian> Bummer :-(
[06:20] <stuNNed> hi guys hope all is well which i'm sure it is :)  good work.
[06:20] <mdke> Mithrandir: if you have a few moments, would you be able to have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowToDapper and see if it is accurate?
[06:21] <bddebian> Heh, hello stuNNed
[06:21] <bddebian> mdke: Maybe we can attempt a coup de tat while they are in Paris.. ;-P
[06:22] <stuNNed> hi bd
[06:23] <mdke> bddebian: good thinking
[06:24] <Mithrandir> mdke: looks ok to me.
[06:24] <mdke> Mithrandir: ah, good news, thanks
[06:25] <Mithrandir> mdke: I obviously haven't tested it, but it looks roughly equivalent to how I build custom CDs here.
[06:26] <mdke> Mithrandir: great
[06:27] <phanatic> mdke, Mithrandir: there is already an automated tool available for creating customized livecds
[06:29] <neutrinomass> Are there any plans for Eagle USB firmware inclusion on the CD ? It's something in the order of 1 MB ... 
[06:31] <madduck> Kamion: "Bug reassigned from package `mdadm' to `mdadm'." ?
[06:32] <Kamion> madduck: two reassignments at roughly the same time
[06:33] <madduck> ok. i just wondered what happened. thanks.
[06:33] <madduck> i think i did reassign too.
[06:37] <bddebian> Heya madduck
[06:38] <G0SUB> pitti: hello!
[06:38] <pitti> hello G0SUB 
[06:38] <madduck> bddebian: gruezi
[06:46] <bddebian> Anyone know when Xorg 7.1 is supposed to hit unstable?
[06:47] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/+branch/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.edgy
[06:47] <Keybuk> ^ sweet
[06:47] <Keybuk> we now have revision history
[06:47] <Keybuk> bddebian: try #DEBIAN-devel :p
[06:48] <bddebian> haha: 654 2006-05-30 shiny firefox theme IT HURTS OUR EYES, PRECIOUS!  
[06:48] <Keybuk> oh, yeah
[06:48] <Keybuk> we mayyyy have to stop being rude in the commit messages now
[06:48] <bddebian> Keybuk: Well where I was going with that was when it was going to hit Edgy ;-P
[06:48] <sivang> hmm, what a nice spam
[06:49] <Keybuk> bddebian: is it in unstable?
[06:49] <sivang> my HSBC bank account has been limited
[06:49] <bddebian> Keybuk: Oh and they hate me more in #d-d then you all do :)
[06:49] <bddebian> Keybuk: No, not yet, hence why I was asking :-)
[06:49] <Keybuk> then we don't know
[06:49] <Keybuk> The X SWAT TEAM doesn't want to touch X anymore
[06:50] <bddebian> Yeah, so I have heard
[06:50] <zul> that didnt last too long
[06:50] <jsgotangco> we do?
[06:50] <mjg59> Nobody wants to touch X
[06:51] <mjg59> It's even more bizarro than the kernel
[06:51] <bddebian> jsgotangco: You do what?
[06:51] <bddebian> mjg59: I do but I don't think I have the skills :-(
[06:51] <siretart> just take debian's xorg packages and blame them if they break
[06:51] <mjg59> bddebian: I suspect you do because you've never had to do so :)
[06:52] <bddebian> siretart: Exactly :-)
[06:52] <bddebian> mjg59: Nah, I'm a glutton for punishment.  Hell I have 4 Hurd boxes, how bad could X be? ;-P
[06:52] <Keybuk> wow
[06:52] <mjg59> How do you feel about whips and large objects being inserted into your rectum?
[06:53] <Keybuk> that's almost half the total Hurd boxes in existance!
[06:53] <bddebian> Keybuk: touche
[06:53] <zul> mjg59: i bet he loves it
[06:53] <mdke> sfllaw: will you be around in maybe 3 hours or so?
[06:53] <bddebian> mjg59: Define the context :-)
[06:53] <mjg59> Because, when it comes to X, the large objects have spikes on
[06:53] <Keybuk> mjg59: are the objects dull?
[06:54] <sfllaw> mdke: Yes.  I'll be waiting for a delivery so I'm guaranteed to be in front of the computer.
[06:55] <sfllaw> As opposed to in the shower or cooking something.
[06:55] <mdke> sfllaw: splendid
[06:55] <sfllaw> Because that's _obviously_ when the delivery would arrive.
[06:55] <sivang> sfllaw: it's always like this
[06:55] <bddebian> heh
[06:56] <bddebian> mjg59: Well i'd like to to SOMETHING more substantial for Edgy :-)
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> THAT IS NOT FRIENDLY.
[06:58] <bddebian> bluefoxicy: ?
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> Did.. did update-manager just KILL firefox?
[06:59] <dholbach> it surely did not
[06:59] <bluefoxicy> then I don't know wtf happened.
[06:59] <Keybuk> firefox could have just crashed :p
[06:59] <bddebian> Daniel!!
[06:59] <bddebian> Keybuk: Not possible :-)
[06:59] <dholbach> Barry!
[06:59] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  it does that a LOT.
[06:59] <Keybuk> bddebian: clearly you are using a different Firefox to the web browser I know ;)
[07:00] <bddebian> heh
[07:00] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  ubuntu needs a modified QFA for Firefox that spits back crash data :P
[07:00] <bluefoxicy> to ubuntu
[07:00] <iwj> bluefoxicy: Thanks for volunteering to handle the crash reports and do binary debugging on Flash and Java :-).
[07:00] <bluefoxicy> (as an optional package of course)
[07:01] <bddebian> iwj: :-)
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> iwj:  I've already handled flash and java
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> "Sorry, these plug-ins are not supported.  Thanks."
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> iwj:  I'm going to try installing session saver and setting it to recover from crashes only though.
[07:02] <bluefoxicy> ... session manager then.
[07:03] <Yagisan> night all
[07:05] <bddebian> Heya pygi
[07:05] <pygi> thanks bddebian 
[07:10] <eXistenZ> no cups developer here?
[07:11] <pitti> eXistenZ: ivoks and I are the closest approximation of a 'cups developer'
[07:11] <eXistenZ> pitti, ivoks is not here
[07:11] <pitti> eXistenZ: although neither of us really knows the code
[07:11] <pitti> eXistenZ: printing is seriously underloved unfortunately
[07:11] <eXistenZ> pitti, We started talking about the bug
[07:12] <eXistenZ> pitti, https://launchpad.net/bugs/48173
[07:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48173 in gs-esp "Printing on remote Windows shared printer doesn't work" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[07:21] <Burgwork> pitti, 2-1 germany
[07:21] <pitti> Burgwork: 3:1 now 
[07:22] <_ion> 32 sweden
[07:22] <pitti> ... even if it was another Klose
[07:22] <bddebian> heh
[07:27] <bddebian> Holy crap postfix has a lot of bugs in BTS..
[07:43] <jdub> Keybuk: did the final n-m in dapper include the workaround for atheros?
[07:47] <Fjodor> Did something change recently in mozilla or cups?
[07:49] <stuNNed> is there flash player 6 for ppc anywheres?
[07:50] <bddebian> Sorry to ask in here, but we don't support desktop on Sparc do we?  Just server installs?
[07:51] <Keybuk> jdub: which workaround?
[07:52] <jdub> Keybuk: not scanning when associated
[07:52] <jdub> Keybuk: something like that
[07:52] <Burgwork> stuNNed, gnash might work
[07:54] <Keybuk> jdub: oh, I didn't know there _was_ a workaround for that?
[07:54] <Keybuk> do you have a reference to the patch?
[07:55] <jdub> sec
[07:56] <infinity> jdub: I thought there was no work around for that with madwifi-old, only with madwifi-ng...
[07:56] <stuNNed> bugger, working on it, thanks!!!!
[07:57] <stuNNed> who is elohim?
[08:00] <lamont> bddebian: that's because I don't close them...
[08:01] <jdub> infinity, Keybuk: hrm, i think that might be the case
[08:04] <bddebian> lamont: ?
[08:04] <keir> why is /etc/ld.so.conf gone-- i need to use shared libs in /usr/local/lib
[08:04] <lamont> postfix bugs
[08:05] <bddebian> lamont: Ahh :-)
[08:06] <bddebian> lamont: Are they fixed?
[08:06] <Keybuk> keir: create it.
[08:06] <keir> aah, ok
[08:06] <keir> will it override the defaults?
[08:06] <keir> so i should keep /usr/lib in there first?
[08:07] <Keybuk> keir: it does not override the defaults
[08:07] <keir> cool thanks
[08:07] <lamont> bddebian: depends... a fair chunk of them are people asking for stupid features that upstream has said 'hell, no' to.
[08:08] <bddebian> lamont: Bug #19922
[08:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 19922 in postfix "postfix: trivial-rewrite crashes with signal 11" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/19922
[08:13] <lamont> ISTR that's something SASL-ish
[08:13] <lamont> against what release is that filed?
[08:15] <bddebian> postfix 2.2.4-1
[08:16] <bddebian> It's an imported Debian bug.  BTS #322602
[08:17] <bddebian> Malone is a freakin' mess :-(
[08:18] <lamont> and did we ever ship 2.2.4-1?
[08:19] <bddebian> lamont: TBH I don't know.  I know we have 2.2.10 now
[08:20] <bddebian> I was tempted to just reject it but I hate getting yelled at :-)
[08:25] <bddebian> iwj: ping?
[08:41] <bddebian> lamont: Still here?
[09:03] <kermitX_> 1.5.dsfg+1.5.0.4-0ubuntu6.06 is the intended 'version' of firefox 1.5.0.4? instead of -ubuntu1 ?
[09:16] <bddebian> lamont: Sorry to keep bugging you but I'm trying to clean up Malone.  Do you think I can close/reject that bug on Ubuntu?
[09:17] <lamont> bddebian: well, first thing to do is see if we shipped it in breezy... if we did, then we should see if it's still present in breezy (and tag it accordingly). If we never shipped 2.2.4, then we can probably close it
[09:17] <bddebian> lamont: OK, thx
[09:18] <bddebian> Hmm, breezy: 2.2.4-1ubuntu2
[09:20] <sivang> so, does anybody know how good is our support for the laptop buttons / other means in desktop to ootb allow users to conect their machien with video cards that support external devices, to the external devices and easily offer the option to transfer display there?
[09:21] <Burgwork> sivang, the buttons are good but the external dispay is an X issue
[09:21] <sivang> Burgwork: buttons seem sto be ignored for me on the t43, have you had better expreince with it?
[09:21] <mvo> iwj: still around?
[09:26] <Burgwork> sivang, my button works, but breaks if there is no external display attached
[09:26] <mvo> iwj: well, we may want to talk tomorrow about your apt-improvements wiki additions
[09:26] <Burgwork> sivang, file a bug, at any rate
[09:26] <sivang> Burgwork: I actually found a spec proposal about that
[09:27] <sivang> Burgwork: should also file a bug as wll :)
[09:28] <bddebian> Later folks
[09:28] <tritium> see you bddebian 
[09:32] <infinity> Does anyone know where the Ubuntu Community myth that "build-essential" is the right package to install to "compile stuff" came from?
[09:32] <Burgwork> infinity, mostly out of our docs, tbh
[09:33] <tseng> infinity: I install build-essential on a new system to "compile stuff" generally
[09:33] <infinity> I'm really curious about this one, since "build-essential" is a product of Policy, and is really about building Debian *packages*, but about building "random stuff from source".
[09:33] <tseng> infinity: followed by apt-get build-dep foo
[09:33] <infinity> tseng: Sure, I install it too, but then again, I always need dpkg-dev around.
[09:33] <LaserJock> infinity: it's convenient
[09:33] <Burgwork> infinity, is there a saner package we should be talking about? build-essential has the distinct advantage of being a single package
[09:33] <infinity> s/but about/not about/
[09:34] <infinity> Burgwork: Well, it's still useless on its own for most things anyway, with the exception of "the kernel" and "Hello World".
[09:34] <infinity> Burgwork: Just about everything else will require more development headers and such.
[09:35] <infinity> (And note that neither the kernel, nor Hello World, actually require g++ or dpkg-dev, pulled in by build-essential)
[09:36] <infinity> build-essential is just "the base set of packages you can expect to be installed on a buildd, so your source package doesn't need to build-depend on them"
[09:36] <infinity> Nothing more.
[09:36] <infinity> So, yeah.  Was always a bit curious, that's all.
[09:36] <Burgwork> infinity, I just read your email. Well said
[09:36] <LaserJock> infinity: do you think a meta-pack for that sort of thing would be useful, or just let people do each individual package?
[09:36] <infinity> If we want or need some cool metapackages for development tasks, we should perhaps dream some up.
[09:38] <infinity> Anyhow, it's not a terribly huge pet peeve or anything, just something I've always wondered.
[09:38] <infinity> "I can't compile stuff" doesn't translate to "install build-essential" in my mind, since I know that 5 minutes later the user will come back with "now ./configure fails, and I don't know why"
[09:39] <infinity> ie: I've solved nothing, nor have I taught a man to fish, as it were, I just gave him an apt-get run to get rid of him, and now he's back for more.
[09:39] <BenC> infinity: if I upload a new dapper-security kernel with an ABI bump, do I upload lrm and linux-meta to dapper-security too?
[09:39] <infinity> BenC: Yes, but don't do LRM yet, I want to request a change to LRM other than just the ABI bump.
[09:40] <infinity> BenC: (a quick dependency hack to try to do some better user-handholding through ABI changes)
[09:40] <BenC> infinity: ok, I just uploaded the new kernel, you want to take care of lrm this time?
[09:40] <infinity> BenC: How urgent is the kernel realease?  I'm off til Tuesday (long weekend, yay!), but if it's urgent, I can discuss the change with mdz and upload it tomorrow.
[09:41] <BenC> infinity: well, it has about 15 CVE's in it
[09:41] <BenC> and fixes a load of important bugs
[09:41] <infinity> BenC: privilege escalation, or just random DoS stuff?
[09:41] <BenC> I can wait till Tue, but I'm not sure pitti can :)
[09:42] <BenC> not sure
[09:42] <infinity> BenC: If there's privilege esacalation fixes, I'll be sure to get LRM sorted tomorrow.
[09:43] <infinity> BenC: Oh, speaking of LRM, can you publish your lrm-2.6.17 work to chinstrap for me, so I can give it a once-over on Tuesday before I let the kernel into the archive?
[09:44] <BenC> infinity: yeah, sure
[09:44] <BenC> infinity: there are a few info leaks in these CVE's
[09:44] <BenC> mostly crash type stuff, but the info leaks are kind of scary
[09:45] <infinity> BenC: Alright, I'll look into it tomorrow, then.  I trust your judgement on the scariness. :)
[09:45] <tritium> Is there any chance of 2.6.17 in dapper backports?  I suspect intsall on an iMac G5 might be possible with it.
[09:46] <tritium> install, even
[09:46] <BenC> tritium: Install on iMac G5 might be possible with the next dapper kernel
[09:46] <BenC> likely hood of 2.6.17 kernel in dapper backports all depends on someone else besides me doing it...I don't have the time to maintain it
[09:46] <tritium> BenC: but will there be a new install CD?
[09:47] <BenC> tritium: I'll have to find that out...not sure at this point
[09:47] <tritium> okay, thanks, BenC 
[09:47] <BenC> since dapper will be around for 5 years, chances are we'll see on sooner or later :)
[09:47] <tritium> true :)
[10:03] <BenC> infinity: FYI, after fixing a small bug in the 2.6.17 kernel headers, everything in current lrm builds without change, except I have to disable fritz pcmcia drivers
[10:03] <BenC> infinity: So in reality, there is no change to the current package for me
[10:03] <infinity> BenC: Ahh, then I'll just work on my sources instead.
[10:04] <infinity> (ie: We're scrapping madwifi-old and moving exclusively to madwifi-ng, and some other random changes too)
[10:05] <BenC> the current linux-headers-2.6.17 are probably borken (.kernelrelease file contains the wrong value)
[10:05] <BenC> so you'll get a failure in building a lot
[10:05] <BenC> I'll get -2.2 uploaded soon though
[10:06] <infinity> Well, the current one's still sitting in NEW, so feel free to keep uploading new revisions. :)
[10:07] <infinity> (Also: -2.2?... You've had an ABI bump before we even had an initial release?  Is this a new record of some sort?)
[10:19] <dholbach> have a nice weekend
[10:19] <sfllaw> dholbach: Have fun!
[10:19] <dholbach> sfllaw: you too
[10:20] <mdke> sfllaw: nughe
[10:20] <mdke> interesting word. I mean, nudge
[10:35] <BenC> infinity: -1.1 is in the "special queue" for when edgy opens :)
[10:36] <infinity> BenC: It's just in queue/NEW.  Nothing special.
[10:36] <BenC> infinity: Oh wait, there are a couple of patches for ati/nvidia-legacy builds
[10:36] <infinity> BenC: If you upload -1.2 before -1.1 builds, then I don't care if it breaks ABI.
[10:37] <BenC> infinity: I'm going to follow my dapper initial upload policy, since every upload has to sync with upstream git, every upload is an automatic ABI bump :)
[10:37] <BenC> 9 times out of 10, that was the case anyway
[10:37] <hunger> BenC: Any chance of that upload fixing suspend on thinkpad T43p's?
[10:37] <BenC> hunger: dapper or edgy?
[10:38] <hunger> BenC: I am on edgy now...
[10:39] <BenC> hunger: 2.6.17 may well fix it
[10:39] <ajmitch> aren't you the crack addict?
[10:39] <ajmitch> :)
[10:39] <hunger> BenC: But that is not so much different from dapper so far:-)
[10:39] <BenC> then again it may well destroy your laptop completely :)
[10:40] <hunger> BenC: So it is a normal kernel switch ;-)
[10:41] <BenC> complete with all the normal disclaimers, yes :)
[10:42] <hunger> Too bad that this was broken in dapper. I wouldn't have minded staying with a stable system for a while.
[10:56] <sivang> have a nice weekend all!
[10:57] <profoXP> thanks, u too :P
[10:57] <sivang> laters
[10:58] <BenC> infinity: are we allowed to modify the source for the fritz stuff?
[10:58] <infinity> BenC: Check debian/copyright.
[11:00] <infinity> BenC: Oh, looks like the non-binary bits are LGPL, so "hellz yeah".
[11:13] <BenC> infinity: Good, that need patches up just a small bit (.owner isn't a valid field any more for some device structs)
[11:57] <mdke> sfllaw: no?
[11:58] <sbartleylinux> Can someone tell me which package is responsible for the logout screen w/ dapper?
[11:58] <mdke> sbartleylinux: gnome-session
[11:58] <sbartleylinux> mdke: thx.
[12:00] <sbartleylinux> mdke: trying to figure out what to look at for removal of hibernate from the logout screen for remote users like freenx or ltsp clients.  Seems it has shutdown and restart set to only display if it is a local user but hibernate comes up on remote user connections.