[12:13] Burgwork: i have to come realise that after today, you don't need to compile custom kernels for ubuntu/kubuntu...they don't do anything else better...plus the repository kernels don't break stuff ;) [12:15] lmao [12:16] also noticed the wiki ati is good for the first time [12:16] eating and typing...1 sec [12:16] nixternal, yep, welcome to Ubuntu [12:16] lmao [12:16] hehe [12:16] nixternal, would it shock you to learn I have never compiled a kernel? [12:17] I have run linux for 3 years now [12:17] disgraceful [12:17] there are a lot of people that haven't..and have been using linux for a long time [12:17] not real men [12:17] i used to be into that whole LFS croud back in the early 90's [12:17] would it shock you that I once compiled a kernel when it took a few days to do so [12:17] haha mdke [12:17] that was a cruddy machine [12:18] i've never compiled an Ubuntu kernel, I have to say [12:18] 18 hours was my longest LFS compile...on a 386 in 94 i think [12:18] i remember when I used slackware..that was horrid to set up but when u were done it was solid [12:18] i bet i can pee further than you ;) [12:18] i bet my dad could beat you up [12:18] ;) [12:19] lol i got candy [12:19] i got peanut butter everywhere...can't type and eat, but i can drive and drink ;) [12:20] gotta check the mail....bbiaf === jd_ [n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:44] Burgwork: just realised that we need all the wiki organisation pages included in the move too, we'll need them for the new wiki [12:45] mdke: is the wiki license now PD (basically)? [12:45] no, that hasn't gone through the CC yet, as far as I can see [12:45] ah [12:46] I thought you sent out the mass email [12:46] yeah, that was a "wait and see how people react kinda thing" [12:46] oh [12:46] but if you're thinking about forum/wiki compatability of licences, any attribution licence basically screws any chance we have of using the forum material without express permission [12:47] people so many people contribute to wiki articles, we just can't have an attribution licence without listing hundreds of people for most pages [12:47] well, if the UDSF is CC-SA then .. [12:48] delete the first "people" from that [12:49] so then we can't really grab UDSF material, right? [12:49] mdke, the WikiTodo, etc? [12:49] no, we can't [12:49] Burgwork: yeah. I've been tagging em [12:49] LaserJock, UDSF used to be PD [12:50] wonderful [12:50] mdke, can we tag them as something other than CatDoc, to make them easy? === LaserJock goes back to work and looking over the immensity of the UDR [12:50] Burgwork: not for the move, the scripts just looks at doc [12:50] ah, ok [12:51] can we kill https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiImprovements ? looks like it is superceded by b-w-d [12:52] yep [12:53] we have too many pages with "wiki" in the name :D [12:54] how about "HowTo"s [12:55] yeah, too many of them as well [12:56] and too many pages with Ubuntu in their name [12:56] I plan on killing them right after the move [12:56] that will be a perfect time to deal with naming stupidity, as the new wiki will have no google juice [12:57] mdke, two things: 1 - moving a page should cause a redirect to be left behind 2 - redirects should be ignored in searching. Can this be done on the help wiki> [12:57] ? [12:59] killing pages = bad - urls to the previous wiki will break. But I agree we can be slightly more proactive in resolving naming issues. [12:59] point 1 = not sure we should worry about it, given that moving pages will be limited access [12:59] point 2 = excellent idea, we'll probably need some code [01:00] heck, why don't we break everything and let people figure out that we are now at help.ubuntu.com? :-) [01:00] lol [01:00] when are we moving? [01:00] mdke, it doesn't matter who is moving it, it should just work === Burgwork grumbles under his breath that mediawiki gets this right [01:01] I need to update the wiki style guide too [01:02] Burgwork: the same amount of time will be wasted killing the redirects that aren't wanted. A checkbox "Create a redirect [] " would work [01:02] apt-get and page naming [01:02] mdke, there are no redirect that are no wanted [01:02] yeah there are [01:02] the only issue I have with redirects is that they are searched by default [01:02] 1. I create a page. 2. I realise it has a stupid name [01:02] if they are not, there is no worries [01:02] unless the redirect is confusing [01:03] everything I am talking about is how it works on Mediawiki, which runs the 10 biggest wikis in the world [01:03] is the new wiki moin 1.3? please say no [01:03] if it works for them, it is going to work for us [01:04] LaserJock, if we are not running 1.5, I am going to cry [01:04] you know full well that it is 1.3 [01:04] you've seen it [01:04] ugh [01:05] we'll definitely make upgrading a priority === LinuxMonkey hands Burgwork a tissue as to not get the floor wet [01:05] was that just to make the move easier? [01:05] LinuxMonkey, thanks [01:05] or is it physically the same machine? I don't know how these things go [01:06] LaserJock: no, it's because upgrading to moin 1.5 is a seriously major operation on the Ubuntu servers. And we'll need to write a new theme too [01:06] ah [01:06] upgrading to 1.5 broke the gnome live wiki theme [01:06] the theme api has changed slightly. [01:06] they still have not fixed it, likely because jdub doesn't have time [01:06] not so much, but a bit [01:08] by the way, I thought we could remove a few links from the top that I don't think are vital and might make the wiki look a bit cleaner [01:08] mdke, do you have full sysstem access to the machine that help.ubuntu.com runs on? [01:08] in other words, if we ask for certain things to be done, are we going to be stuck waiting for a canonical person to do them? [01:08] (which is never, basically) [01:09] i have no access [01:09] Henrik has been ferrying things across [01:09] hmm, that sucks [01:09] henrik is a great guy, but insanely busy === LaserJock attempts to slit his wrists with a beaker [01:10] they obviously just don't trust me [01:10] :) [01:10] I might ask, if it becomes problematic [01:10] hopefully [01:10] there are lots of little things I want to see addressed, to make navigation and editing easier [01:11] I also really loved the look of mhz's slideshow plugin [01:12] so, about removing these links [01:12] I've tried removing the links to HelpContents, RecentChanges and the user's homepage, because I thought these weren't so important for the user [01:13] http://help.ubuntu.com/wiki [01:13] that works [01:13] and then I moved the rest onto the same line [01:13] this for logged in or anons? [01:13] should work for both [01:13] please restore the link to RecentChanges for logged in yours [01:13] anons shouldn't see any of it [01:14] I will look into if that is possible [01:14] FindPage can die for everybody [01:14] hmm [01:14] there is already a find bar [01:14] yes [01:14] anon: no links [01:14] logged in: edit, page history, recent changes [01:15] what if we put links to like the top 5 pages? [01:15] logged in wiki team: edit, page history, move page, delete page [01:15] Burgwork: I get the idea, I just don't know if it is possible [01:15] just epressing it very clearly [01:15] I also want to kill the drop down, too confusing [01:15] if possible [01:16] presumably all this is possible, we just have to find out how [01:16] someone from #moin can give us some love [01:16] yes, i will put it on my todo list [01:16] mhz can do some pretty cool things with moin [01:17] I'm still very impressed with the gnuplot and latex [01:17] warms my nerdy heart all over [01:17] lovely, I like the idea of embedded slide shows, ala bbc's pictures [01:27] glator sure filed a lot of doc bugs [01:28] glatzor I mean === nixternal`v2 [n=nixterna@71.194.189.213] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:43] \o/ [01:43] what? === mdke has discovered how to hide the links from users who aren't logged in [01:43] oh cool [01:44] is that through the theme? [01:44] or is that an admin thing? [01:44] yes, in the theme [01:45] I'm probably going to start a moin wiki for the Chemistry Grad Student Assoc. here (I'm the VP for Events and Communications) [01:45] I'll have to learn how to admin moin and adjust a theme [01:46] it's not so bad [01:46] you speak python so even easier [01:46] yeah, that's sorta why I wanted moin [01:50] LaserJock: some help [01:51] if I have something like this in my python theme: [01:51] if blah blah blah [01:51] else blah blah blah [01:51] and I want "else" to be "do nothing" [01:51] how do I do that? [01:52] so you want it to get out of the loop? [01:52] yeah [01:52] i assume [01:52] try "pass" [01:53] else: [01:53] pass [01:53] ? [01:53] yeah [01:54] perfect [01:54] thanks [01:54] Burgwork: would you like the hotel moved a little to the left? [01:54] heh, no thank the Python Essential Reference ;-) [01:54] mdke, say again? [01:55] Burgwork: nothing, a Fawlty Towers joke [01:56] Burgwork: I've got the disappearing links thing sorted [01:56] mdke, ah, ok. Not a fawlty towers fan [01:57] if logged in, you get the edit bar with a link to the Home, to RecentChanges and to UserPreferences, if not logged in, you get a "Login to edit" link, and a link to the Home and to RecentChanges [01:57] Burgwork: how does that grab you? Or would you rather get rid of the RC link too? [01:58] that works, but I would nuke the RC link [01:58] is really only needed for people who are editing [01:58] that makes sense, ok [01:58] can you get rid of hte dropdown thingy? [01:58] page history is nice, however [01:58] oh, and can you add a "discussion" link? [01:58] and yes, the motel a little to the left please [01:59] get rid of the dropdown thingy for logged in users? [01:59] no, for non-logged in ones [01:59] I've nuked all of the left hand links for non-logged ones, just "Login to edit" appears [01:59] cool [01:59] I'll upload it to h.u.c/w :) [02:01] done [02:01] argh, the bastard doesn't work === mdke checks [02:03] anyway, home I go [02:04] ah, wiki config is screwy === visik7 [n=visi@unaffiliated/visik7] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:23] where can I find doc about restricted modules ? [02:23] the new volatile tree inside kernel modules [02:24] hmm, not sure [02:25] and there are some thing that I can't understood [02:26] e.g. there are 2 drivers for atheros cards inside the modules madwifi and madwifi-ng but madwifi is always selected how can I tell ubuntu to use madwifi-ng ? all this things are undocumented [02:27] nevermind time to sleep I'll put up a blacklist === Kingbahamut [n=bahamut@c-24-98-229-28.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === linuxmonkey [n=linuxmon@unaffiliated/LinuxMonkey] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:06] this laptop has been compiling modules in breezy for 2 hours now...this orinoco thing is nuts [03:06] it just works with dapper..that is great ;) === nickrud [n=nickrud@adsl-69-153-4-198.dsl.snantx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:10] anyone have time to talk about the restricted formats page? Like, breaking it up and getting a common look? [03:10] Death to RestrictedFormats! [03:11] all hail Java, Flash, Shockave, and WatchingYourDamnedMovies [03:11] Madpilot: nah man too many people use that page [03:12] yeah, it has to exist as a directory, if nothing else [03:12] I'm with Madpilot [03:12] likewise [03:15] I'd just go break it up myself, but this something the doc team should determine. === nixternal [n=nixterna@71.194.189.213] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:41] hey Burgundavia [03:41] hey nixternal [03:42] this lappy has been compiling modules for more then 2 hours now...just to patch the orinoco drivers...jeesh [03:42] i will admit, Ubuntu layout seems solid...even in Breezy [03:42] i may dual boot this lappy with Kubuntu and Ubuntu maybe [03:43] hey Burgundavia [03:43] hye linuxmonkey [03:43] well i cleaned up 1 of the wiki pages today [03:44] took me awhile to get it just right but i got it :) [03:44] yes, it does take a while [03:45] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuAddingRepositoriesHowto [03:46] anyone here still (or also) running Breezy? [03:47] not i [03:47] should of asked yesterday i had breezy installed on a server [03:47] gah - from the wiki's DMA page: "My new 200G SATA drive does not support DMA at all."... erm, because it's a SATA drive, and it's not supposed to... delete key to the rescue... :) [03:48] nah, had a question about Breezy's gnome menus, which I think have changed slightly in Dapper [03:49] Madpilot: I have an install [03:49] Burgundavia, running currently? [03:49] Madpilot: will be in a sec [03:49] cool. thanks. [03:49] Madpilot: what do you want to know? [03:50] what's the Desktop background thing called in System->Preferences menu? [03:50] should be the same [03:51] let me confirm [03:52] I thought it had changed, but that's just a vague thought [03:52] booting now [03:54] Madpilot: yep, it is the same [03:54] thanks [03:55] I updated some of UbuntuEyeCandy to Dapper, then realized I'd deleted the Breezy stuff, some of which is different. === crimsun_ [i=crimsun@hacked.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:18] @sig@ inserts a signature correct? [04:18] yes [04:18] it doesn't work in the wiki's Preview mode, though [04:19] ya i know that...i just brainfarted on the sig portion for a sec [04:21] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OrinocoMonitorKimset2005Hoary <- could be deleted...it is the same as (actually older) than https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OrinocoMonitorKismet2005Hoary [04:22] ^^difference is the spelling of "Kismet" [04:22] I'd vote for killing the misspelled one [04:23] +1 here [04:28] nixternal: redirect it [04:28] linuxmonkey: you got help with the Kubuntu repos page? [04:28] roger that [04:49] look, the artwork team is creating more wiki pages [04:49] @ [04:49] ! [04:50] any vmware users here? [04:50] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallingVMWare?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=vmware&titlesearch=Titles [04:50] for the love of all that is holy, pare that down [04:51] Burgundavia, some of the Artwork Team folks seem to approach wiki-page renaming & creation as some sort of competitive sport ;) [04:51] indeed [04:51] Burgundavia: i use vmware [04:51] nixternal: can you please clean up those pages [04:51] some of the pages have been moved four or five times... [04:52] one central page, etc. [04:52] i can work on them if needed sure... [04:53] why do people think that a first boot wizard is a great thing? === poningru [n=poningru@ip68-105-165-49.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:54] you mean a "Welcome to Ubuntu" guided-tour/animated mascot type thing? [04:54] yep [04:54] I just found yet another page with yet another proposal [04:56] uh oh..not mine is it? [04:57] he got quiet...must be mine ;) === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:58] nixternal: FirstBootWizard ? [04:58] whew..thats not me ;) [04:59] UbuntuWelcomeCentre is another useless spec [05:00] that is actually similar to one i had previously done though ;) [05:01] please no [05:01] there are two places for it [05:01] yelp and ubiquity [05:01] another bloody app is not needed! [05:03] hehe [05:06] ok, done making my big sweeping statements for the day [05:07] so far, I have suggested a new direction for my company, told off people making a useless welcome screen, said shipping gcc is useless and lambasted people for creating yet more distro specific system tools [05:08] a good day, then? ;) [05:08] yep [05:08] and this is all within the 2 hours of getting home [05:09] now I am going to tackle RestrictedFormats [05:19] ok, Java is now a page dump of every single Java page on the wiki [05:19] ick [05:21] Burgundavia: mostly did it myself with input from the doc comunity [05:22] linuxmonkey: cool, no need for me then? [05:24] what do you mean by that [05:24] you eamiled the doc team and asked for advice [05:24] yeah and got some..lol [05:25] so im all good [05:25] good [05:28] Burgundavia: do you have a name suggestion you want for the VMware stuff? [05:28] VMware works great for me [05:28] VMware is taken already, but that info could be compiled into the rest though [05:29] ^^is that alright with you? [05:29] just use that VMware page, and bring everything into it [05:29] yes, redirect as needed [05:29] ok..will do [05:29] redirect all the other vmware pages to the main one [05:29] once the main one is complete though === poningru_ [n=poningru@ip68-105-165-49.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:32] might it just be saner to recommend people just download the jre deb from dapper? [05:36] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VMware [05:36] that is the future home..VMware was open [05:36] cool [05:36] i have 16 tabs of vmware open in firefox [05:36] indeed [05:36] if firefox could cuss..i bet it would right now [05:36] lol [05:37] Burgundavia, absolutely. It's not free, but it's the wiki [05:38] Burgundavia, you certainly do have balls :) [05:38] nickrud: the Java stuff? [05:39] sure, java should be easy, and the easiest way should be documented first. [05:40] I am thinking the easiest way is to pull down the java stuff from dapper multiverse [05:41] Burgundavia: are you talking about Breezy? [05:41] or Hoary [05:41] I am testing that now, with Breezy [05:42] maybe we should consider pushing it into hoary and breezy -updates [05:42] dapper sun, and earlier blackdown. And the java-package stuff, maybe that should be hidden somewhere. [05:43] just going to kill it [05:43] I see no sane reason why anyone would want it [05:43] iava-package is still broken [05:43] erm, java-packate [05:43] package, you mean? === nickrud walks ouf for spellling refresh [05:45] want what? [05:45] to create java .deb with java-package over the predone stuff [05:46] ok, sun java fails to run on breezy, dammit [05:46] what does exit status 10 mean? [05:46] broken on amd64 and ppc fundamentally, according to the bug reports. Just do the repos, and be done with it. It's the best available from what I've seen [05:47] but what about people who want sunjava on breezy and any java on hoary? [05:48] Carry the old stuff over to a transitional page, and try to hook java knowlegeable people to vet it. [05:48] Exit status 10 means you didn't accept the license (see [05:48] /var/lib/dpkg/info/j2re1.4.preinst). [05:48] yikes, I've seen that before :-) [05:48] does dpkg use debconf? [05:49] if the package used debconf [05:49] nixternal: you still have that breezy install going [05:49] ? [05:49] yes [05:50] can you try and install Java? [05:50] will do [05:50] i had to reinstall..hard drive died after power outtage today [05:50] oh, wait [05:50] never mind [05:50] lol [05:50] don't do it then? [05:50] no, don't [05:50] you need to do the jre first, to accept the license [05:51] you talking about a repository install? [05:51] no, dpkg [05:51] ahh [05:51] via wiki howto or forum howto? [05:51] wiki howto [05:51] rewritting Java [05:51] ahh [05:52] i always use the how-to int he forum...there is one that is super easy to follow and do...in like 5 lines java is installed and set as firefox plugins [05:52] what does it do and it is sane? [05:52] it installs java/jre 1.05whatever the new one is from java...very sane [05:53] let me find it [05:53] perfect, that works [05:53] it is always a paint to fine [05:54] s/paint/pain [05:54] ( means press the Tab Key) In the directory where you downloaded the sun jre, type sudo aptitude install java-package && fakeroot make-jpkg jre . When that's done, type sudo dpkg -i sun [05:55] can be done in two lines, actually [05:55] http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=148075 [05:55] nickrud, it's easier than that in Dapper [05:55] that one is painless [05:56] Madpilot, very true [05:56] That is what should be in restricted formats / java [05:56] there is already a pre-packaged version [05:56] I am going to tell them how to install and download that [05:57] the reason i use that one there i listed is because i don't use the preinstalled Firefox with Kubuntu..i grab it from mozilla and install in an /opt directory where i keep all my little toys [05:57] Burgundavia, the section between Getting Java and Sun Java from sun, that [05:57] that way there if i wipe my system...all my toys are still there [05:58] 's what should be correct and complete. And it might actaully fit on RestrictedFormats :) [05:58] nickrud: it is all moved to Java anyway [05:59] Burgundavia, that is good. Now, just ditch Shockwave :) [05:59] already done [05:59] take a peak [06:00] peek, even [06:01] shorter for sure. But Java. You said you concatenated, but damn [06:01] I am rewriting now [06:01] LaserJock: how do I remove the key for the license? [06:02] DM or java? [06:02] LaserJock: ie: how do I get the java package installer to prompt me again? [06:02] purge the .deb? [06:02] probably [06:03] that did it [06:04] you doing the jre? [06:04] yep, figured it out [06:05] Burgundavia, as a temporary measure, I'd delete everything on your new java page except for what was on restricted. That is just too much info right now. [06:05] how do I get it to reconfigure everything? [06:05] nickrud: don't worry, that is what I am doing [06:05] nickrud: I just need to confirm that my new solution works [06:05] Burgundavia: how'd you do it [06:06] It left -jre unconfigured. I need to tell it to rerun the configuration [06:08] there is a command to configure any packages left unconfigured, what is it? [06:08] LaserJock: & [06:08] ^ [06:09] dpkg --configure ? [06:09] I'm not sure [06:09] got it [06:09] Burgundavia, dpkg --reconfigure -a [06:10] got it === nickrud goes off to spelling hell again [06:17] hey..with Ubuntu (im a Kubuntu user), is there an easy way to drop down a menu and get a screenshot? key sequence? [06:18] you hit the print scrn key I think [06:18]