[12:43] <mdke> Plug_: are you the chap who posted the mailing list recently?
[12:45] <Burgwork> mdke, on my todo list, but I have been at work all day
[12:45] <mdke> Burgwork: no prob, I'm going to reply now, work is but a distant memory
[12:54] <mdke> Burgwork: by the way, your idea yesterday for automatic talk pages: it might be possible to do it with the PageComment2 macro. It is basically a comment box which the reader can enter a comment into, and we might be able to make it use a talk page by default
[12:55] <LaserJock> oh, cool
[12:56] <mdke> it basically creates a forum effect
[12:57] <Burgwork> mdke, that works
[01:11] <mdke> what do people think of giving up with the /forum section on the wiki, it's not really working. WikiTeam/Issues seems to propose getting rid of it. We can work productively with forum contributors without it, I think
[01:17] <Burgwork> mdke, I like it
[01:17] <Burgwork> the idea, not the /forum section
[01:18] <mdke> I'm making a DocumentationTemplate too
[01:23] <mdke> there are some cool macros we can use
[01:26] <LaserJock> mdke: at least somebody's excited ;-)
[01:26] <mdke> LaserJock: you need a holiday
[01:26] <crimsun_> no, he needs more work =] 
[01:26] <mdke> LaserJock: I've heard Paris is nice this time of year
[01:27] <LaserJock> mdke: dude, I have to write specs, no play time for me
[01:27] <LaserJock> btw, I added a doc spec today
[01:27] <mdke> that will get you excited, no?
[01:28] <mdke> what spec?
[01:28] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/scripting-for-users-doc
[01:28] <LaserJock> but I haven't written the wiki part yet
[01:29] <LaserJock> heck, I've got half written forum posts, specs in progress, most of a package
[01:30] <LaserJock> and I'm trying to discuss work with my undergrad
[01:30] <LaserJock> Paris is starting to sound nice :-)
[01:30] <mdke> ffs, ctrl click doesn't work properly in launchpad
[01:30] <Burgwork> mdke, does for me
[01:31] <mdke> Burgwork: go to the list of specs, and ctrl click one which is down the page
[01:31] <mdke> Burgwork: it is impossible to click the right one because the page jumps around while you click
[01:31] <Burgwork> works for me
[01:32] <Burgwork> oh how I wish I was going to Paris
[01:32] <LaserJock> why?
[01:32] <Burgwork> because it will be cool
[01:32] <mdke> Burgwork: ah, it only happens when I have the Find box open
[01:33] <Burgwork> ah, ancient version of epiphany here
[01:33] <Burgwork> so no find bar
[01:34] <mdke> (and I am clicking on something which is highlighted as the result of a search)
[01:34] <LaserJock> yeah, I noticed the find + click was weird
[01:35] <mdke> maybe it's an epiphany bug
[01:35] <LaserJock> Burgwork: yeah, I should be cool. I'm starting to get nervous. It has been so painless to setup I keep thinking something's going to go wrong
[01:35] <LaserJock> s/i?it/
[01:36] <LaserJock> man I can't type
[05:26] <Burgundavia> Seveas: got your msg. Sorry, I was removing the aptitude instructions. I have reworked to do both of our changes (different packages and removal of specific installation method)
[05:53] <Burgundavia> anybody know who Warbo is?
[06:13] <nixternal> have no clue Burgundavia
[06:13] <Burgundavia> nixternal: whomever he is, he likes to write a great deal
[06:14] <nixternal> however:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OrinocoMonitorKismet2005Hoary    has been completed...and I think it needs a name change and have that hoary one redirect
[06:14] <nixternal> where is he writing?
[06:14] <nixternal> is it good?
[06:14] <Burgundavia> just too wordy
[06:14] <nixternal> ahhh
[06:15] <jsgotangco> hey
[06:15] <nixternal> proposed name change for that:  OrinocoWiFiKismet
[06:15] <Burgundavia> what about under WifiDocs?
[06:15] <nixternal> it can go there
[06:15] <Burgundavia>  /OrinocoKismet
[06:15] <nixternal> WifiDocs/OrinocoKismet
[06:15] <nixternal> good deal
[06:15] <nixternal> done...
[06:15] <nixternal> redirect the old page i shall
[06:15] <Burgundavia> can anybody confirm that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MappingWindowsKey no longer seems to work?
[06:16] <Burgundavia> this needs a better solution: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackageCDs
[06:19] <nixternal> i will look into that..because i want to remap mine...as of right now it doesn't do anything
[06:20] <Burgundavia> thanks
[06:21] <Burgundavia> I am getting wierd results
[06:23] <Burgundavia> nixternal: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/control-center/+bug/12153
[06:23] <Ubug2> Malone bug 12153 in control-center "Cannot use Windows key in keyboard shortcuts" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  
[06:24] <nixternal> roger that
[06:24] <Burgundavia> now lets watch the artwork team try and organize a meeting!
[06:25] <nixternal> haha
[06:25] <Burgundavia> who needs soap operas when you have the artwork team?
[06:25] <klepas> Burgundavia: i just contacted cvd about it :)
[06:25] <klepas> Burgundavia: lollers
[06:25] <klepas> a meeting should be happening within the next week or so
[06:26] <nixternal> Burgundavia: that bug starts out with the fact the guy just upgraded TO Hoary...how can i confirm that one? breezy is the oldest here
[06:26] <klepas> actually... you folks are invited too
[06:26] <jsgotangco> cvd? will the sabdfl attend that?
[06:26] <klepas> yes
[06:26] <Burgundavia> nixternal: I just tested breezy
[06:26] <jsgotangco> ah that's why
[06:26] <klepas> he's going to 'chair' it
[06:26] <nixternal> i can test dapper/kubuntu
[06:26] <klepas> make sure things stay on track :)
[06:27] <jsgotangco> too bad cvd isnt going to paris...heard she's 7 months on the way
[06:27] <klepas> anyhow... you guys are quite welcome... would be nice to talk to some marvelous people from a working, organised team :)
[06:27] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: you serious?
[06:28] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: that is going to make Mark's life fun
[06:28] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: yes she told me about it a few weeks ago in a phone conversation
[06:28] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: you get to have phone conversations with them?
[06:28] <jsgotangco> that's why clan is the one organising stuff at the moment
[06:29] <Burgundavia> clan?
[06:29] <jsgotangco> well not that frequent, only when there is a need
[06:29] <jsgotangco> claire newman
[06:29] <Burgundavia> ah, the other claire
[06:32] <Burgundavia> is hard at Userful right now. There is a major rethink of how we do things and the victoria office just lost somebody
[06:32] <rob> hmm, I think I might have picked up another error in the packaging guide..
[06:32] <rob> If a Debian package has been changed in Ubuntu, it has ubuntuX (where X is the Ubuntu revision number) appended to the end of the Debian version. So if the Debian hello package was changed by Ubuntu, the version string would be 2.1.1-1ubuntu1. If a package for the application does not exist in Debian, then the Ubuntu version is 0 (e.g., 2.1.1-0ubuntu1).
[06:32] <jsgotangco> send a resume it might work
[06:33] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: ya. I will play at one this weekend
[06:33] <rob> shouldn't the 1 and 0 be the other way around on that last revision example?
[06:33] <Burgundavia> rob: no
[06:33] <Burgundavia> because if there is no debian version, we want debian -1 to overwrite any Ubuntu numbers
[06:34] <rob> ok, that doesn't read very well then
[06:34] <Burgundavia> no, it doesn't
[06:35] <jsgotangco> oohh germany won
[06:35] <rob> jsgotangco, yeah
[06:35] <Burgundavia> nixternal: if you want my eternal love, can you go around and move all the docs about wireless to under wifi docs
[06:35] <Burgundavia> and poland lost
[06:35] <nixternal> sure can
[06:35] <Burgundavia> nixternal: make certain to check for redirects
[06:36] <Burgundavia> nixternal: PageHits is good place to see if something is popular or not
[06:36] <nixternal> Burgundavia: that window key map i don't believe will work with kde cuz the .xstartup is ignored
[06:36] <nixternal> ok Burgundavia thax
[06:36] <nixternal> thanks
[06:36] <nixternal> ;)
[06:39] <Burgundavia> well, I have killed 3 pages from CatCleanup tonight. How many have you done?
[06:40] <jsgotangco> klepas: surely you are aware that June 17-18 are the days people start coming over to paris with 18 in the evening having dinner
[06:41] <klepas> oh, that does suck
[06:41] <klepas> do you think Thursday/Friday then might be more applicable?
[06:42] <Burgundavia> Laser_away: deal with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackageBuilding
[06:42] <jsgotangco> yeah i think thats workable
[06:43] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: we have a wacom tablet at work, how it connects (serial/usb) not sure but i will check when i come back to office
[06:44] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: ok, thanks
[06:44] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: I posted something to artwork
[06:44] <Burgundavia> kill? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NvidiaManual
[06:44] <jsgotangco> would be interesting to see how it works im gimp and krita
[06:45] <klepas> has anyone had any luck with a lower-end wacom using Ubuntu and gimp?
[06:46] <jsgotangco> i havent even tried it but i will next week
[06:54] <Burgundavia> suggestions for a snack? I have a bad case of the munchies
[06:56] <Laser_away> Burgundavia: is it ok to delete pages? how should I deal with stuff that should more or less go away
[06:57] <Laser_away> with packaging stuff, I don't think we need anythin in CatDoc really
[06:57] <Burgundavia> Laser_away: if it has no links, then yes, go ahead
[06:58] <Burgundavia> WikiGuide lists the rules
[06:59] <Laser_away> I hate wiping out other peoples work, but that page for instance has nothing of value on it
[07:00] <Burgundavia> meh, I have no issue
[07:00] <jsgotangco> oh crud i am still in my locale
[07:02] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: do you google the URL to find links?
[07:02] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: yep, the whole url
[07:02] <Burgundavia> then click teh 2nd link "find pages with this link"
[07:03] <LaserJock> ah, ok
[07:03] <LaserJock> thanks
[07:03] <jsgotangco> speaking of google, have anyone tried spreadsheets
[07:05] <Burgundavia> nope
[07:06] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: done
[07:10] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: do we really need a Howto (not very well done) for building KDE from CVS for 5.04?
[07:10] <LaserJock> that was imported from the old wiki :-)
[07:11] <Burgundavia> no, not really
[07:16] <LaserJock> done
[07:19] <Burgundavia> how big is a single layer dvd again?
[07:21] <LaserJock> 4.3 GB perhaps?
[07:21] <LaserJock> HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch is going to be a bugger I think
[07:23] <LaserJock> It's from Hoary and I've pretty much covered the content in the packaging guide
[07:26] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: could I take CatDoc off a page that I plan on using for the PG and then deleting later?
[07:26] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: yes
[07:26] <Burgundavia> hey Madpilot
[07:27] <Madpilot> hi
[07:27] <LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
[07:27] <Madpilot> gah... long f'ing day - 9-1 at job #1, 4-8 @ job #2... 
[07:28] <LaserJock> yeah, that is long
[07:30] <nixternal> <-- IDIOT
[07:30] <Madpilot> nixternal, ??
[07:31] <nixternal> lol...instead of just renaming a page to move it...i have been doing it the long way
[07:31] <nixternal> copy, paste into a new page and so on
[07:31] <nixternal> so what could have been a 10 minute job has been about an hour
[07:31] <nixternal> ;)
[07:31] <Madpilot> nixternal, the 'long way' is better in some cases, it leaves the old page behind to set a re-direct up on
[07:31] <nixternal> well ya...oh wait...that is what we wanted to do
[07:32] <nixternal> so im not an idiot ;)
[07:32] <nixternal> im still an idiot for thinking like an idiot
[07:32] <nixternal> back to work ;)
[07:37] <jsgotangco> gee its so hot here lately
[07:37] <Madpilot> lucky you
[07:37] <jsgotangco> its 33C!
[07:37] <Madpilot> the weather sucked here most of the day, it only started to clear & warm up around 5 or 6pm
[07:37] <Burgundavia> better in oak bay
[07:37] <Burgundavia> it was sunny at abot 3pm
[07:57] <nixternal> TeamWiFi ??
[07:58] <jsgotangco> lol
[07:58] <nixternal> sounds like a serious wireless gang ;)
[07:59] <Madpilot> we've got a WiFi Team?
[07:59] <nixternal> not that i know of...but since you put it like that...is there even a network team ?
[07:59] <nixternal> ;)
[07:59] <nixternal> lets break down every possible thing with ubuntu
[08:00] <nixternal> i will create a Kwallet team
[08:00] <jsgotangco> what's the focus on that?
[08:00] <jsgotangco> "people who use KWallet"
[08:01] <jsgotangco> ?
[08:01] <nixternal> your guess is as good as mine...but why not create it..seems like the "cool" thing to do :)
[08:01] <jsgotangco> =)
[08:01] <nixternal> this wiki will drink you to drive
[08:01] <nixternal> or drink you to fly in some people's cases ;)
[08:17] <Burgundavia> hmm, CatCleanup is really coming down
[08:17] <nixternal> slowly but surely
[08:22] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/AcerAspire5003WLCiWifi
[08:23] <nixternal> ^^ transfer also?
[08:24] <Madpilot> leave the LaptopTesting stuff where it is
[08:25] <nixternal> then everything with the WifiDocs transfer is over
[08:25] <nixternal> all WiFi stuff is now located under WifiDocs/
[09:10] <dsas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomeComputerMenu kill ?
[09:14] <Burgundavia> dsas: pop the trunk!
[09:15] <nixternal> lol
[09:16] <Burgundavia> night
[09:17] <dsas> heh http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pop+the+trunk 
[09:20] <jsgotangco> ohh yeaahhh
[09:21] <nixternal> haha
[09:21] <nixternal> gahahah
[09:22] <nixternal> dsas: stay away from 2 and 3 ;)
[09:22] <dsas> 2 and 3 were the definitions I were familiar with :/
[09:25] <nixternal> hahahah
[09:30] <dsas> Do I need to get an ack on every CatCleanup page I delete? Or should I just bin them if it's obvious?
[09:39] <Seveas> Burgwork, but keep in mind that apt-get build dep should not be changed. There is no package 'build-dep'...
[09:51] <jsgotangco> apt-get build-dep packagename
[10:44] <mdke> morning
[10:44] <pygi> hey mdke 
[10:44] <jsgotangco> morning
[10:45] <pygi> hey jsgotangco 
[05:58] <mdke> glatzor: what do you mean?
[05:58] <mdke> (changing channel)
[05:59] <glatzor> you seemed to be annoyed by some of my bug reports that only referred to minor issues.
[06:00] <mdke> glatzor: did I?
[06:00] <mdke> I don't think so
[06:02] <glatzor> mdke: then it's all ok :)
[06:03] <glatzor> mdke: I didn't know how helpful reports about minor issues are for you, since the documentation is frozen
[06:03] <mdke> glatzor: once we've organised our ideas for dapper, we'll go through them.
[06:05] <glatzor> mdke: I have translated and so reviewed further 200 strings and 250 still are missing. But I don't know if I find the time in the next weeks to fill the corresponding bugs.
[06:06] <mdke> glatzor: no worries. You can file them whenever you like in the next 6 months or so. Or you can grab our trunk later and submits some patches to fix any more problems you see
[06:06] <glatzor> mdke: I don't know if I have got the additional time to even provide patches.
[06:07] <mdke> glatzor: ok, no worries
[06:07] <glatzor> mdke: do you know how the translation of the ubuntu guides could be reused for the kubuntu guides?
[06:08] <mdke> glatzor: rosetta shows you suggestions for strings that are already translated elsewhere
[06:08] <glatzor> it is quite discouraging to see a lot of common strings that only differ by the package name and Ubuntu/Kubuntu
[06:08] <glatzor> I don't use Rosetta, instead I translate them locally using gtranslator.
[06:09] <mdke> you could use Rosetta, if you like. Or just upload a po for the Ubuntu guide to Kubuntu, it will merge strings that are the same
[06:16] <glatzor> mdke: I will write an email to the translators list. perhaps somebody found a nice solution.
[06:20] <mgalvin> hey guys
[06:21] <mgalvin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue2 is ready for a quick review if anyone has time
[06:21] <mgalvin> gotta run out for a few min, be back in a hour or so
[06:21] <mgalvin> (thanks in advance)
[06:25] <mgalvin> trappist: ^^^
[10:00] <LaserJock> can I get a wiki expert's opinion of wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScienctists ?
[10:03] <n1c0las> LaserJock: Although I am by no means a wiki expert I think it is an excellent overview
[10:04] <LaserJock> mdke or Burgwork: should ^^ be in CatDoc?
[10:04] <LaserJock> n1c0las: is it too long for one page do you think?
[10:05] <n1c0las> With Image Processing Tools you might include ImageMagick (sp?)
[10:06] <n1c0las> LaserJock:The navigation aid on the top right hand helps a lot in this large page
[10:07] <LaserJock> yeah, I think I'd be totally lost with out the table of contents
[10:07] <LaserJock> Corey!
[10:08] <n1c0las> I don knwo if you did this on purpose but I also miss the tools to create tutorials or courses such as Moodle
[10:08] <LaserJock> hmm
[10:09] <LaserJock> I think it more targeted towards research but that is a good point
[10:09] <n1c0las> In a scientific environment there is much need for this type of courseware
[10:09] <n1c0las> LaserJock: you're welcome
[10:09] <n1c0las> I can see what your point is too, for this page
[10:10] <LaserJock> if we were to break it up into sub pages
[10:12] <n1c0las> Maybe you could break it up and use Categories to pull it all together
[10:13] <Burgundavia> hey LaserJock
[10:14] <LaserJock> I was just looking for you Burgundavia 
[10:14] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: and you have found me
[10:14] <LaserJock> I'm looking at wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists
[10:14] <LaserJock> and I wondered if it should be in CatDoc
[10:14] <Burgundavia> and now I am too
[10:17] <n1c0las> LaserJock: the british linux magazine LinuxFormat has a review of several Astronomy packages on Linux. It is in the March 2006 issue.
[10:18] <LaserJock> hmm
[10:18] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: it should be renamed to ScientificApps and renamed, yes
[10:23] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: added to CatDoc?
[10:23] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: yep
[10:24] <LaserJock> do you think it is too long?
[10:26] <Burgundavia> not really
[10:28] <LaserJock> ok
[10:28] <LaserJock> I haven't really worked on it much
[10:28] <LaserJock> but there was a bunch of work done on it yestreday
[10:29] <LaserJock> I'm really pretty impressed with it
[10:35] <n1c0las> LaserJock: it looks quite extensive
[10:48] <apokryphos> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing -> "The Ubuntu team is committed to Free and Open Source Software. The exact details of what that means can lead people into a very long debate indeed, often ending up with both sides in violent agreement."
[10:48] <LaserJock> hi apokryphos ;-)
[10:48] <apokryphos> typo? Violent disagreement? 
[10:48] <apokryphos> hello =)
[10:48] <LaserJock> lol
[10:49] <LaserJock> I think that might be a typo
[10:51] <Burgundavia> no, I don't think it is
[10:52] <apokryphos> hardly a common expression, but furthermore doesn't seem quite right from the context
[10:52] <Burgundavia> yes it does
[10:52] <apokryphos> "you can have very long debates that end you up very firmly agreeing"
[10:53] <Burgundavia> no, that is wrong
[10:53] <Burgundavia> long debates often lead to disagreement
[10:53] <apokryphos> exactly
[10:53] <Burgundavia> the current wording is good English
[10:53] <Burgundavia> and conveys the meaning
[10:54] <apokryphos> I never argued the inaccuracy of the English
[10:54] <LaserJock> violent and agreement seem a little oxymoronic
[10:54] <apokryphos> I argued that the writer there probably doesn't mean to say "violent agreement"
[10:54] <apokryphos> Burgundavia: are you sure you know what it says above?
[10:54] <Burgundavia> oh, wait, hmm
[10:54] <crimsun_> it should be violent disagreement.
[10:54] <apokryphos> =)
[10:55] <crimsun_> violent agreement has a different but not opposing connotation
[10:55] <Burgundavia> you are right, I misread that
[10:55] <Burgundavia> I will fix it
[10:55] <Burgundavia> my mind put in disagreement
[10:56] <apokryphos> same with the author of the article, I'm sure 8)
[10:56] <Burgundavia> fixed
[10:56] <crimsun_> LaserJock: they're not. Heated debates can be civil and can "conclude" with all parties concurring.
[10:56] <LaserJock> but violent? that implies non-civil to me
[10:57] <Burgundavia> yes, it can get very non-civil
[10:57] <crimsun_> violent doesn't imply non-civil
[10:57] <Burgundavia> have you ever seen debian debate a license?
[10:57] <LaserJock> yeah, a little bit
[10:57] <apokryphos> depends on context; I wouldn't say it was necessary in the case of debate
[10:57] <Burgundavia> random stupid link --> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5067912.stm
[10:57] <crimsun_> martial arts tournaments are violent and civil.
[10:58] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:58] <Burgundavia> yes, but license and freenes debates can quickly sink to non-civil
[10:59] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: lol @ pic
[11:03] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I do think the "Ubuntu is an entirely open source operating system built around the Linux kernel."
[11:03] <Burgundavia> and?
[11:03] <LaserJock> statment is perhaps not accurate
[11:03] <Burgundavia> I don't want to make huge changes to such pages without confirmation
[11:03] <LaserJock> well that is the desktop guide so there really isn't anythin we can do about that right now
[11:04] <LaserJock> but that was the only point that I found very valid
[11:04] <LaserJock> the "All of the application
[11:05] <LaserJock> software installed by default is Free Software." one clearly doesn't include the next sentence
[11:05] <Burgundavia> I have got myself in a nice pickle. I have lost my visa card and my laptop power supply. I am leaving for a trip on Tues and need the power supply. But I can't buy a new one because I have no visa card :(
[11:05] <LaserJock> yikes
[11:09] <Burgundavia> last time I used it was the 11th of may
[11:11] <Burgundavia> so it has not been used for fraud, but still
[11:19] <LaserJock> hmm, I wish I could get MLs as RSS feeds
[11:19] <crimsun_> which MLs?
[11:21] <crimsun_> LaserJock: allow me to {re,}introduce you to gmane. http://gmane.org/rss.php
[11:21] <LaserJock> oh, like debian MLs
[11:23] <LaserJock> man, gmane rocks my socks off!
[11:25] <mpt> LaserJock, why just mailing lists? Why not all e-mail? :-)
[11:26] <LaserJock> well, I just want to be able to skim through Debian MLs without having to subscribe
[11:28] <LaserJock> yes, the one I was looking for tetex-maintainers
[11:30] <LaserJock> now, I feel like an idiot that I haven't used this before
[11:37] <LaserJock> crimsun_: thanks dude, I don't know what I would do without you sometimes. Probably be in the technological stone age :-)
[11:38] <crimsun_> LaserJock: the intarweb is a big place. I don't know the half of it.
[11:45] <LaserJock> hi manicka 
[11:45] <manicka> hi
[11:58] <LaserJock> hmm, epiphany is bugging me now