[06:08] <moving-dragons> what is worldwide soyuz appreciation day?
[06:11] <moving-dragons> hello?
[09:02] <SteveA> good morning
[09:42] <Yannig> Hello everybody
[09:43] <Yannig> Do someone remember where I can set the default first day of the week?
[09:43] <Yannig> I thought it was in gnome-panel but I cannot find it :(
[09:51] <SteveA> Yannig: i don't know.  Try asking on #ubuntu.
[09:51] <Yannig> Thanks :)
[09:58] <SteveA> good morning malcolm
[09:59] <malcc> Morning
[10:24] <lifeless> morning SteveA 
[10:25] <SteveA> morning robert
[10:26] <lifeless> how art thou ?
[10:26] <ddaa> morning guys
[10:28] <SteveA> hello david!
[10:28] <SteveA> i'm okay, although kinda stiff and bruised -- paintball game on sunday
[10:29] <ddaa> your idea of a relaxing sunday?
[10:29] <SteveA> i made a couple of ill-advised moves, like dodging through the crossfire to grab the flag in the middle of the field (which worked)
[10:29] <SteveA> and then running back to base with it (which didn't) ;-)
[10:30] <lifeless> SteveA: lol
[10:46] <Yannig> And still no news for the Occitan mailing-list :(
[10:47] <Yannig> I'm about to give-up with Rosetta if we are not able to communicate between translators :(
[10:50] <lifeless> Yannig: have you been chatting with Jordi about this ?
[10:51] <Yannig> No, I tried with jdub but never answers
[10:53] <lifeless> Yannig: hes really the Guy That Knows, not jdub
[10:54] <SteveA> Yannig: does jordi know about your desire for an Occitan mailing list?
[10:54] <Yannig> So I'll try with Jordi
[10:54] <Yannig> SteveA> I talked about it with carlos, I don't know if Jordi knows about it
[10:55] <SteveA> okay.  sorry that this is taking a while to get sorted out.  tell me your email address, and i'll send an email to you and jordi
[10:56] <Yannig> SteveA> Well, I can wait for it to be processed but I'd like at least to know whether it's in the queue :)
[10:57] <Yannig> SteveA> yannick.marchegay@lokanova.com (for https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-oc)
[10:57] <Yannig> Thanks a lot :)
[11:00] <SteveA> mail sent
[11:03] <jordi> Yannig: we'll try to get your list created asap
[11:04] <sivang> morning all
[11:07] <SteveA> hi sivan
[11:07] <SteveA> hi jordi
[11:07] <jordi> hi SteveA, everyone
[11:15] <Kinnison> Morning
[11:26] <sivang> hey SteveA , jordi , Kinnison 
[11:26] <SteveA> good morning daniel
[11:31] <Yannig> jordi> Thanks :)
[11:39] <ddaa> jamesh: lifeless: SteveA: mpool: meeting in 21 mins
[11:39] <ddaa> somebody please call spiv
[11:39] <janimo> what does Test failed mean for bazaar status field?
[11:39] <janimo> I have set up some upstream svn projects to be imported in bazaar a few days ago
[11:39] <janimo> but it does not seem to work
[11:39] <janimo> https://launchpad.net/products/xfdesktop/trunk
[11:40] <ddaa> Janimo: it means that the initial import test failed and that you need to ask me for more details
[11:40] <janimo> for example, same for thunar 
[11:40] <ddaa> janimo: I will have a meeting soon, and need to prepare it, but I'll look at the issue soon after.
[11:40] <janimo> ddaa: thanks
[11:49] <lifeless> ddaa: its a public holiday in .au
[11:49] <lifeless> ddaa: mpool sends his apologies, I expect spiv has updated the agenda page with his. 
[11:55] <ddaa> duh
[11:55] <ddaa> little point having a bazaar meeting w/o the aussies
[11:56] <ddaa> SteveA: meeting in 4 mins, provided you are not on a public holiday too
[11:56] <SteveA> ddaa: i'm around
[11:57] <ddaa> Well, I had prepared a nice agenda as usual, at least I'll have one public...
[11:57] <lifeless> ddaa: I'm here, being on UK time I dont get a holilday :(
[11:57] <lifeless> well, being *in the UK*
[11:58] <ddaa> interesting
[11:58] <ddaa> lifeless: next time you are asked for a sprint, don't be a sucker, ask for thailand
[11:58] <lifeless> clearly
[11:58] <ddaa> they seem to have holidays every other day there.
[11:58] <lifeless> brb
[12:00] <lifeless> back
[12:02] <janimo> ddaa, is the meeting public?
[12:05] <SteveA> janimo: the meeting isn't public.  but, we're not talking about anything very interesting :-)   #launchpad-meeting if you're interested.
[12:49] <lifeless> review meting in 10
[12:53] <jordi> Yannig: do you understand a bit of Catalan?
[01:02] <lifeless> yoyoyo 
[01:02] <lifeless> launchpad reviewer meeting time
[01:02] <lifeless> roll call
[01:02] <SteveA> hi
[01:03] <BjornT> i'm here
[01:03] <lifeless> Andrew is on public holiday
[01:03] <jamesh> here
[01:04] <lifeless>  * Agenda
[01:04] <lifeless>  * Next meeting
[01:04] <lifeless>  * Queue status.
[01:04] <lifeless> next meeting - 19ths at the same time ?
[01:05] <Yannig> jordi> I can understand it more or less (with French, Occitan and Spanish)
[01:05] <Yannig> jordi> Why?
[01:05] <SteveA> lifeless: bjorn will be at the paris conf
[01:05] <lifeless> SteveA: so will I
[01:06] <lifeless> SteveA: I'm ok if born wants to skip the meeting.
[01:06] <lifeless> but there should be one all the same
[01:06] <lifeless> any other objections ?
[01:07] <lifeless> 5
[01:07] <lifeless> 4
[01:07] <lifeless> 3
[01:07] <lifeless> 2
[01:07] <lifeless> 1
[01:07] <lifeless> ok, 19th at 11UTC it is.
[01:08] <lifeless> queue status:
[01:08] <lifeless> last week we had 2 reviews open at 4daus/
[01:08] <lifeless> this week is 3 open at 3 days - which is about ideal for a Monday.
[01:08] <lifeless> *great work* everyone
[01:09] <lifeless> lets keep it up.
[01:09] <lifeless> The queue doesn't show pre-code review calls.
[01:09] <lifeless> so lets talk about those.
[01:09] <lifeless> who has been the reviewer for one ?
[01:10] <jamesh> I did one for spiv
[01:10] <BjornT> i reviewed carlos and brad
[01:11] <lifeless> I have not done one yet, as reviewer or supplicant
[01:11] <lifeless> SteveA: - have you ?
[01:11] <SteveA> stub informally outlined his approach to something (can't remember what now) during an infrastrcuture team call
[01:12] <SteveA> i'm not sure i'd use the term "supplicant" for one asking for a pre-implementation review
[01:12] <lifeless> true
[01:12] <lifeless> I was taking odds on whether you would comment ;)
[01:13] <lifeless> so coder is the term we use in the doco/process notes
[01:13] <lifeless> have any of these branches come through for pre-merge review yet ?
[01:14] <lifeless> i.e. mpt's one from 2 weeks back, or spivs/carlos/brads/stubs ?
[01:14] <BjornT> the branches i pre-designed reviewed haven't come through yet
[01:15] <jamesh> one of the branches on my review queue is from the call I did with spiv
[01:15] <jamesh> mpt has been on holiday, so it isn't too surprising that nothing has come from that call yet
[01:16] <lifeless> please pay attention when you review spivs one, as towhether you *think* the pre-merge review helped make the branch easier to review
[01:16] <lifeless> also, it sounds like most of the lp team has still not been the coder for one of these pre-code phone calls yet
[01:17] <lifeless> I think we all should do this at least once to know what it feels like from both ends of the phone line.
[01:17] <SteveA> i think kiko has given one at least
[01:17] <SteveA> but perhaps not mailed the list
[01:17] <lifeless> ok
[01:17] <BjornT> yeah, kiko reviewed me. he did send a mail to the list, but it wasn't an official 'pre-design report'
[01:18] <lifeless> well, maybe not most of the team - but offhand it sounds like bjorn, spiv, stevea and lifeless are all still in the 'have not experienced this yet' camp.
[01:18] <lifeless> meh, my fingers are bust
[01:18] <lifeless> I meand 'jamesh' in that list
[01:18] <lifeless> so, jamesh, stevea, lifeless.
[01:18] <jamesh> yeah
[01:18] <lifeless> action item for us is to find something to code, and get a pre-code review done of it.
[01:19] <lifeless> any feelings about the process so far - do the calls seem to be productive? are you enjoying doing them ?
[01:20] <BjornT> for my part i think it has been productive, both when being the coder and reviewer.
[01:20] <jamesh> I think they have been useful.  The two that I've done seemed to cover some issues that the developer hadn't thought about previously
[01:21] <lifeless> thats good
[01:21] <lifeless> SteveA?
[01:22] <SteveA> ok
[01:22] <lifeless> did you feel the same w.r.t. your call with stub ?
[01:23] <lifeless> SteveA: ^
[01:24] <SteveA> the call with stub was mainly informational, communicating his plans out.  there weren't any issues to bring up.
[01:25] <lifeless> ok
[01:25] <lifeless> I think that about wraps up the pre-code reviews discussion
[01:25] <lifeless> are there any other/new issues to discuss ?
[01:25] <cprov> good morning, guys
[01:26] <lifeless> 'lo cprov 
[01:26] <lifeless> 5
[01:27] <lifeless> 4
[01:27] <lifeless> meh, too slow
[01:27] <lifeless> 3
[01:27] <lifeless> 2
[01:27] <lifeless> 1
[01:27] <lifeless> 0
[01:27] <lifeless> meeting ends - thanks guys..
[01:27] <lifeless> s/\.\./.
[01:29] <jordi> Yannig: I was curious :)
[01:29] <Yannig> jordi> Molt ben :)
[01:37] <siretart> ddaa: hi there. regarding mplayer autoimport, you said that you kicked the test, but the import status is still 'testing'. are there still problems with the import?
[01:38] <ddaa> siretart: none, it's just very large
[01:38] <ddaa> and baz slows down painfully after a few thousand commits
[01:38] <ddaa> currently up to revision 9223
[01:39] <siretart> ddaa: aaah, I see. I supposed there were some problems because they are using svn:externals for ffmpeg
[01:40] <ddaa> hu
[01:40] <ddaa> there good to know, externals are not supported
[01:40] <ddaa> so it's likely to fail the cross-check validity test
[01:42] <ddaa> the cvs import code goes to some length to ignore the module configs, each module must be imported separately. The svn code does not have the equivalent support yet.
[01:57] <siretart> oh :(
[02:08] <Keybuk> is spiv on holiday?
[02:30] <lifeless> yes, its a publich holiday in NSE
[02:30] <lifeless> NSW
[02:38] <Keybuk> meh
[02:59] <ddaa> siretart: mplayer import failed: OSError: [Errno 12]  Cannot allocate memory 
[03:00] <siretart> ddaa: :( - but since svn:externals don't work anyway.. 
[03:02] <ddaa> siretart: I'm adding that import on https://help.launchpad.net/VcsImportRequests and will try it again once we have bzr-native imports set up.
[03:03] <siretart> ddaa: ok. thanks for looking into this issue
[03:07] <carlos_> hi
[03:28] <BjornT> hi bradb 
[03:28] <bradb> hey BjornT 
[03:29] <BjornT> bradb: how about a skype call soon?
[03:29] <bradb> sure...maybe in an hour?
[03:29] <flacoste> hi Brad!
[03:29] <BjornT> sure, in an hour is good
[03:29] <bradb> flacoste: salut!
[03:30] <flacoste> (Hi to everyone here, I'm the new developer, Francis Lacoste)
[03:30] <bradb> flacoste: welcome :)
[03:31] <flacoste> brabd: tnx!
[03:31] <BjornT> hi flacoste. welcome to the team! you'll be working on the support tracker, right?
[03:31] <flacoste> that's what I understood, yes
[03:31] <flacoste> anyone else working on that?
[03:32] <salgado> hi flacoste. welcome aboard
[03:33] <BjornT> flacoste: cool. i've been doing some work on it in the past, but not lately. matsubara has done some work on it as well.
[03:33] <carlos> flacoste: welcome!
[03:34] <flacoste> BjornT: any hints on where should I start?
[03:35] <flacoste> i mean, is there kind of a 'New Launchpad Developer Howto' somewhere?
[03:36] <sivang> flacoste: hi!
[03:37] <sivang> flacoste: there is a LaunchpadHackingFAQ on wiki.launchpad.canonical.com
[03:37] <flacoste> sivang: thanks a lot!
[03:37] <sivang> flacoste: np :)
[03:37] <sivang> flacoste: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/NewLaunchpadder
[03:38] <sivang> flacoste: as well :)
[03:39] <kiko> flacoste!
[03:39] <kiko> welcome
[03:39] <flacoste> hi kiko!
[03:39] <kiko> how's it going up north?
[03:39] <kiko> it is a bright blue day today
[03:39] <kiko> my brain however is still stuck in 2nd gear
[03:40] <flacoste> here too, it looks like we are going to have a sunny day... after a lot of rain, it will be welcome
[03:43] <kiko> not /that/ button!
[04:10] <janimo> ddaa: hi, I need to see about xfce svn and externals
[04:10] <janimo> not sure why those errors occur
[04:11] <ddaa> external is just an hypothesis
[04:11] <janimo> http://svn.xfce.org/svn/xfce/modules/trunk
[04:11] <janimo> there are many modules checked out from here
[04:11] <janimo> thunar, xfdesktop are among them
[04:11] <janimo> so it may be externals actually
[04:13] <janimo> I think bzr cannot yet handle subprojects like svn w/o config-manager?
[04:13] <ddaa> actually... it's apparently even a failure in checkout...
[04:13] <ddaa> pysvn.Client.checkout
[04:13] <ddaa> janimo: those are different issues
[04:13] <ddaa> bzr does not have explicit nested trees support
[04:14] <ddaa> but it's not even clear how cscvs (the importd engine) would use them
[04:14] <ddaa> the first step would be to just avoid traversing externals
[04:14] <ddaa> and leave it to the user to reassemble things
[04:15] <LarstiQ> nested trees support is progressing, but not done yet
[04:15] <ddaa> but at this point, I'd just like an idea of what caused this failure
[04:15] <ddaa> for project management purposes
[04:15] <janimo> I don;t know how to check using svn commands if a module uses externals
[04:15] <ddaa> and I just do not have the time to investigate
[04:16] <ddaa> janimo: just leave it, then. Eventually somebody will pop up with the right bit of knowledge.
[04:16] <ddaa> I'll keep you informed on any progress.
[04:16] <janimo> ddaa: ok, thanks
[04:17] <LarstiQ> svn proplist | grep externals?
[04:23] <janimo> LarstiQ: yes, look with svn pl and the only svn:ignore is there
[04:30] <bradb> BjornT: wanna do a call in like 3 mins?
[04:31] <BjornT> bradb: sure
[04:34] <bradb> BjornT: calling now...
[05:32] <kiko> carlos, CONGRATULATIONS!
[05:32] <kiko> this is most welcome!
[05:32] <carlos> kiko: PoMsgSetPage?
[05:32] <carlos> ;-)
[05:32] <kiko> what else!
[05:33] <carlos> aka 'the smelling branch'
[05:33] <carlos> :-P
[05:34] <carlos> mpt: are you around? or it's just your computer working for you while you sleep? ;-)
[05:38] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[05:39] <mpt> Good morning Carlos!
[05:39] <carlos> mpt: goood morning!
[05:39] <mpt> It's a balmy morning here in Montr?al
[05:39] <carlos> mpt: oh, you are in Montreal!
[05:39] <carlos> I see ;-)
[05:39] <mpt> I'm having a lovely holiday
[05:40] <carlos> hmm, I was going to ask you for some UI review....
[05:40] <carlos> but I guess I could ask you it so you could do it when you start working again ;-)
[05:43] <carlos> mpt: enjoy your holidays!
[05:43] <carlos> kiko: do you have 5 minutes for me? 
[05:44] <mpt> carlos, is it on a public Web server somewhere?
[05:44] <carlos> mpt: staging
[05:44] <mpt> I'm not doing anything more important than e-mail right now
[05:44] <mpt> URL?
[05:46] <carlos> https://staging.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/gnome-desktop/+pots/gnome-desktop-2.0/es/+translate
[05:47] <carlos> mpt: and the form you get from the zoom icon near the message number (those are more or less the same, in fact, both use the same macros
[05:48] <mpt> carlos, I don't get it
[05:48] <mpt> what's the individual form for?
[05:48] <mpt> why would anyone use it?
[05:48] <carlos> PoMsgSetPage specification
[05:49] <carlos> mpt: the main form limits the amount of suggestions we show
[05:49] <carlos> to render only last 3 entries
[05:49] <carlos> the individual form shows any suggestion we have
[05:49] <carlos> will be much more useful once the translation review spec is implemented
[05:50] <mpt> carlos, the full page you gave me the URL for has 4 suggestions for some items
[05:50] <carlos> mpt: last 3 entries per section
[05:50] <mpt> oh, so 3 "Used elsewhere:", then 3 "Suggested elsewhere", etc
[05:51] <carlos> right
[05:51] <mpt> hmmm
[05:51] <mpt> carlos, I'm having trouble imagining anyone wanting to use the one-at-a-time view
[05:52] <carlos> mpt: As I said, it will be much more useful for the review UI
[05:52] <carlos> mpt: also, we could start adding in that other form much more information
[05:53] <carlos> like, timestamps when those suggestions were added
[05:53] <carlos> the number of places where it's being used, etc...
[05:54] <mpt> hmm, ok
[05:55] <mpt> though I think that would still work better with expanders to display them in-place
[05:57] <carlos> mpt: but that would imply AJAX
[05:57] <carlos> mpt: that form is already too slow
[05:57] <mpt> carlos, maybe so
[05:58] <mpt> but that that might be difficult to implement doesn't make a non-Ajax implementation automatically usable :-)
[05:59] <mpt> carlos, one easy thing to fix is to combine the "Change" and "Filter" buttons into a single button
[06:00] <carlos> I splitted them as part of that patch
[06:00] <mpt> why?
[06:00] <carlos> mpt: on filters messages, and the other adds another kind of suggestions
[06:00] <carlos> IMHO are two different actions
[06:01] <mpt> Neither of them are actions
[06:01] <carlos> s/on/one/
[06:01] <mpt> They're view options
[06:01] <mpt> oh, I see, the single-string view doesn't have the filter
[06:01] <carlos> right
[06:02] <mpt> but still, when you click "Save & Continue" in the single string, Rosetta needs to decide which string to show you next
[06:02] <mpt> whether that's a translated one, etc
[06:02] <mpt> so both still should be there, right?
[06:05] <kiko> carlos, I'm on the phone but wbbias
[06:05] <carlos> mpt: no, the single view navigates thru all messages available, without taking into account any kind of filtering
[06:05] <mpt> carlos, is there a deliberate reason for that?
[06:06] <mpt> or could you add the filter to the single-message view too?
[06:06] <carlos> mpt: what would you do if you select 'See untranslated messages' when you are viewing a translated one?
[06:06] <mpt> display the next 1 untranslated message
[06:07] <carlos> mpt: what's next?
[06:07] <mpt> just as you'd display the next 10 untranslated messages if you happened to be viewing 10 translated ones
[06:07] <mpt> Or does that normally go back to the beginning?
[06:07] <carlos> go back to the beginning
[06:07] <mpt> ok, so go back to the beginning here also
[06:09] <mpt> carlos, while I think of it, can you remove "German, Middle High" and "German, Old High"?
[06:10] <carlos> mpt: I guess we should show there only languages that we got translations for...
[06:10] <mpt> They appear to be the widest items in the menu, and apparently they haven't been spoken for 504 and 944 years respectively
[06:11] <mpt> carlos, isn't that what we did before, and then we got complaints that some languages were inaccessible because they didn't have any translations yet?
[06:11] <mpt> We should be showing languages based on whether people speak them, not based on whether people have started translating into them
[06:13] <carlos> mpt: that kind of language selector is only to get suggestions from our database
[06:13] <carlos> so I'm not talking about removing those languages from our database, but to hide them from that menu
[06:14] <mpt> Sure, but if they're not available as languages people can translate into, they're not going to contain useful suggestions anyway, are they
[06:14] <mpt> I am proposing that Middle High German and Old High German be available in *neither* list
[06:15] <mpt> and if that offends any hexocenterian Germans, I'm sorry, but they probably can't read what I'm writing anyway
[06:15] <mpt> hexacentenarian, rather
[06:15] <carlos> mpt: Yeah, I guess we could remove them from our database
[06:15] <carlos> mpt: ;-)
[06:16] <mpt> bbiab, lunch
[06:33] <ddaa> mpt: oh dull, you don't know good retrotechnology!
[06:40] <Keybuk> ddaa: got a second to debug a new odd sm-ng behaviour?  or is there someone else dealing with that?
[06:51] <ddaa> Keybuk: sure, what is it?
[06:52] <ddaa> Keybuk: sorry about last week, but I really had to focus entirely on cscvs coding
[06:52] <Keybuk> that's no problem
[06:52] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/+branch/udev/ubuntu.result-whitespace
[06:53] <Keybuk> I've only just started to push that branch (it's still pushing now) but it's already got an error on it
[06:53] <ddaa> nothnig weird
[06:53] <ddaa> I'd expect that the branch is not valid until it's entirely pushed
[06:53] <carlos> SteveA: still away?
[06:53] <ddaa> mh
[06:54] <ddaa> Keybuk: and the branch puller does not know that you are still pushing... it's one the things that you cannot really get right short of a smart server
[06:56] <Keybuk> is it trying to mirror on every push now?
[06:56] <ddaa> nope, it's trying to mirror periodically
[06:57] <ddaa> the fix spiv suggested to mirror hosted branches on every run of the cron script (about every 10 mins)
[06:57] <ddaa> is not acceptable because it would interact badly with another bug
[06:57] <Keybuk> what's the current period?
[06:58] <ddaa> one day
[06:58] <Keybuk> it's consistently doing this for every new branch I create though?
[06:59] <Keybuk> or am I flukily doing things while the mirroring is happening?
[06:59] <ddaa> yeah, that's "normal" behaviour. When you mkdir the branch, it gets created in the database, then in the next few minutes the branch puller sees that the branch has never been mirrored and tries to mirror it. Then it won't try to pull that branch for 24 hours.
[07:00] <Keybuk> oh, I see
[07:00] <ddaa> Keybuk: you are doing nothing wrong, it's just that our code sucks.
[07:00] <Keybuk> how difficult is it going to be to get the mirroring up from 24 hours to 10 minutes?
[07:00] <ddaa> not difficult
[07:00] <ddaa> just need to be done right
[07:00] <Keybuk> what kind of timescale?
[07:01] <ddaa> depends on when spiv can come around fixing it
[07:01] <ddaa> couple of weeks at most
[07:01] <ddaa> or jamesh...
[07:01] <ddaa> I say spiv since he seems to have taken ownership of the issue.
[07:02] <Keybuk> ok, thanks
[07:03] <Keybuk> also thanks for giving stub the information he needs to clean up the ubuntu-seeds problems
[07:03] <ddaa> this problem is not hard programming wise, it's a small bug to fix. It's just blocked on somebody actually fixing it, getting it though review, and getting rolled out.
[07:13] <LarstiQ> that reads to me as debian-installer, but probably not
[07:24] <jordi> carlos: can you get teams renamed?
[07:25] <jordi> or is that a task for the mighty lifeless or stevea?
[07:25] <SteveA> a team owner should be able to rename the team
[07:25] <SteveA> otherwise, a member of the "admins" team can do that
[07:25] <jordi> nod
[07:26] <jordi> SteveA: I probably want https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-ph renamed to "ubuntu-l10n-fil"
[07:26] <SteveA> probably?
[07:27] <bradb> mpt: Let me know when you have time to check out the attach-while-commenting feature.
[07:27] <SteveA> i can't do a probably rename
[07:27] <jordi> s/probably// :)
[07:27] <SteveA> it's a 1 or 0 thing
[07:27] <SteveA> mpt: hi
[07:27] <jordi> he wants tshis team to translate kubuntu
[07:27] <SteveA> jordi: i can rename that for you
[07:27] <jordi> so it needs to use the official scheme
[07:28] <SteveA> jordi: send me a gpg-signed email and i will do it
[07:29] <jordi> mailing
[07:30] <jordi> hm
[07:31] <jordi> so we might be facing some controversy with the Filipino translation
[07:31] <jordi> it seems its the same language as Tagalog
[07:33] <jordi> but they have a language code, so..
[07:37] <jordi> SteveA: got email?
[07:38] <SteveA> jordi: yep
[07:39] <jordi> k
[07:43] <SteveA> jordi: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-fil
[07:48] <jordi> SteveA: many thanks
[07:48] <jordi> Carlos, can you assign this to Ubuntu translators?
[08:15] <mdke> jordi: tagalog is definitely the language that the philippines community translates
[08:16] <mdke> jordi: you can ask jsgotancgo for more information, he is very familiar with that community
[08:16] <mdke> s/jsgotancgo/jsgotangco
[08:17] <jordi> mdke: good.
[08:18] <jordi> I was about to mail both the Tagalog leader(s) and this guy.
[08:18] <jordi> Because the issue is fishy at least.
[08:19] <mdke> jordi: yes, my understanding is that tagalog is the philippine language
[08:24] <mdke> might just be a bit of confusion
[08:24] <jordi> yeah
[08:25] <jordi> their constitution talking about Filipino doesn't help
[08:26] <jordi> too bad
[08:26] <jordi> he's not online rightn ow
[08:27] <SteveA> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_language
[08:27] <jordi> SteveA: yeah, that made me worry about the political implications of this.
[08:28] <SteveA> it's not our job to uphold their constitution
[08:29] <SteveA> if they can get the ISO to change the ISO language codes, then we'll follow that
[08:30] <jordi> SteveA: your stance is that given they have a "fil" ISO code assigned, we should step back from questioning anything and let them go ahead?
[08:30] <jordi> That was my initial reaction, but I asked the requester for more info in my reply.
[08:30] <jordi> I will mail Jerome too, to see what he thinks.
[08:30] <SteveA> i think they'd get more value out of rosetta if they'd share resources
[08:31] <jordi> jgotangco is from Phillippines and is involved in translation. I think his opinion has some value
[08:31] <SteveA> cool
[08:31] <jordi> yes
[08:32] <jordi> if we could hack systems so tl is a fallback for the fil locale, we could treat it as a dialect when we have dialect suppot.
[08:34] <mdke> the tagalog team is quite well established in Ubuntu, Gnome and debian I think. They are probably the same people involved
[08:35] <jordi> yeah
[08:36] <jordi> look at the amount of emblems jerome has :)
[08:39] <mdke> yeah, he collects em
[09:13] <SteveA> idea for speeding up our test runs
[09:13] <SteveA>  - have a declaration for a particular test story or standalone page test that says "this doesn't use the librarian"
[09:13] <SteveA>    then do two things for this test
[09:14] <SteveA>  1. don't setup/tear down the librarian
[09:14] <SteveA>  2. install a librarian API that raises an exception if it is used
[09:14] <SteveA> then liberally use this declaration
[09:14] <lifeless> how much of our test runs are librarian using ?
[09:14] <salgado> I thought we had to explicitly setup/teardown the librarian on tests that use the librarian
[09:15] <lifeless> (I thin this is a reasonable approach if librarian using tests are rare, and its currently being setup always)
[09:15] <SteveA> i noticed how slow the standalone pagetests are running
[09:15] <lifeless> salgado: I suspect pagetests get it always
[09:15] <SteveA> there's a lot of setup and teardown of something there
[09:16] <salgado> ah, right. this is just for pagetests. I misread it
[09:16] <SteveA> it might be so for system doc tests too
[09:16] <lifeless> database was the culprit last I profiled, but that was a ways back.
[09:16] <SteveA> i don't know yet
[09:16] <SteveA> i think stu added this for extra correctness
[09:16] <SteveA> he has pending a task to optimise this, so it doesn't do anything if the librarian hasn't been used
[09:17] <SteveA> so, maybe there's a less explicit way to do it too
[09:17] <SteveA> i'll add a note for the next infrastructure team call
[09:18] <SteveA> an API-was-used flag might be better
[09:18] <bradb> mpt: how about some attachment UI love!
[09:20] <mpt> bradb, give me a branch URL and I'll try to look at it tonight
[09:22] <bradb> mpt: sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/bradb/launchpad/malone-smallfixes-3
[09:24] <mpt> ok
[09:24] <bradb> mpt: BTW, the problem with the sort tests is that they select by widget value, rather than label, so they didn't notice that datecreated/-datecreated got flipped.
[09:26] <kiko> bradb, even with the super-new testing infrastructure?
[09:28] <bradb> kiko: yeah. the test was converted, doing widget.value = ["datecreated"]  in the test means it doesn't notice if "Newest" is pointing to "datecreated" or "-datecreated".
[09:28] <kiko> well
[09:28] <kiko> that's what I was thinking
[09:28] <kiko> that it would be 
[09:28] <kiko> widget.select("Newest")
[09:28] <kiko> is that not in the new API?
[09:29] <bradb> I don't see that, but I do see a .displayValue in the docs.
[09:30] <kiko> BjornT, is there no API to select a <select> option?
[09:30] <kiko> or matsubara?
[09:30] <kiko> if not that is unfortunate
[09:32] <bradb> from the docs:
[09:32] <bradb>   - 'displayValue' lets you get and set the displayed values of the control
[09:32] <bradb>     of the select box, rather than the actual values.
[09:33] <bradb> so, using .value on <select>'s should probably be outlawed
[09:33] <SteveA> i feel stupid.  i have a branch of launchpad.  i want to get a diff the contents of this branch against the current rocketfuel launchpad.
[09:34] <SteveA> when i try to do it with: bzr diff sftp://chinstrap/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel
[09:34] <bradb> SteveA: bzr diff -r ancestor:../launchpad-upstream/
[09:34] <SteveA> i get an error about it not being a branch
[09:34] <mpt> bradb, are you sure about ancestor:?
[09:34] <mpt> he said the *current* rocketfuel
[09:34] <mpt> not the point he branched off
[09:35] <bradb> SteveA: chinstrap.ubuntu.com?
[09:35] <SteveA> or rather, i get a "no working tree exists"
[09:35] <SteveA> yeah, i have my ssh settings set up with that as a shortcut
[09:35] <SteveA> it isn't that
[09:35] <SteveA> imo, bzr should damn well work around the lack of a working tree
[09:35] <SteveA> meanwhile, i'll do a branch, with working tree, on chinstrap
[09:36] <SteveA> or do it against RF-built
[09:36] <bradb> ah, "no working tree exists" is indeed slightly different from "not a branch". :) that's unfortunate.
[09:36] <lifeless> SteveA: you are not using the command as we expect.
[09:37] <SteveA> bzr: ERROR: sftp://chinstrap/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel-built/launchpad/.bzr/ is not a local path.
[09:37] <SteveA> what does that mean?
[09:37] <lifeless> SteveA: when you say 'bzr diff PATH' it considers PATH to be local.
[09:37] <SteveA> oh
[09:37] <SteveA> why would it do that?
[09:37] <SteveA> it's a distributed revision control system
[09:37] <mpt> If it starts with sftp: that's a clue it's not local :-)
[09:37] <lifeless> because 'bzr diff foo.c' is 'show me the change to foo.c *in my tree*
[09:37] <SteveA> an error message like "you can diff only with a local path" would help
[09:37] <lifeless> this command will do what you want:
[09:38] <lifeless> 'bzr diff -r branch:sftp://chinstrap/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel-built/launchpad/'
[09:38] <lifeless> please file a bug, or nag me to, and we will improve the error message.
[09:38] <SteveA> i'll file a bug.  thanks
[09:42] <SteveA> https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/49501
[09:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49501 in bzr "improve error message for incorrect remote diff syntax" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[10:00] <Keybuk> cprov: I'm going to run the upload queue and publisher
[10:01] <cprov> Keybuk: okay, use -N to p-u, at least 
[10:01] <Keybuk> -N ?
[10:02] <Keybuk> won't that stop it actually doing anything?
[10:02] <kiko> Keybuk, can you wait until the drescher code updates are done?
[10:02] <kiko> otherwise cprov needs to stop working and help you work around bugs that are already fixed in RF
[10:03] <Keybuk> ah, "now is a bad time"
[10:03] <Keybuk> sorry, I did mean that cprov could scream "no! now is not a good time" there
[10:03] <kiko> tomorrow morning is the ideal time
[10:03] <Keybuk> which timezone?
[10:03] <kiko> if that works for you
[10:03] <kiko> your timezone
[10:03] <kiko> we will finish this tonight
[10:03] <kiko> tonight our timezone
[10:03] <Keybuk> you'll need to let infinity know when he wakes up in ~ 6 hours
[10:03] <Keybuk> otherwise he'll begin running things
[10:04] <kiko> he should be good to go in 6h though
[10:04] <cprov> Keybuk: I don't have good time at all, bad times is routine 
[10:04] <kiko> ha ha
[10:04] <Keybuk> ok, I'll leave a note for infinity to run p-u and cron.daily when he awakes
[10:05] <cprov> Keybuk: if you really need and it is a dapper-updates or sec we can do it, otherwise wait until tomorrow
[10:05] <Keybuk> there's a gcc in there that infinity will need tonight
[10:05] <Keybuk> but he's capable of processing that himself :)
[10:06] <Keybuk> I was just going through usual motions -- nothing else urgent in there
[10:06] <Keybuk> (he says, as a security update turns up)
[10:11] <Keybuk> ok, I take that back
[10:11] <Keybuk> looks like we need to do a security run
[10:11] <Keybuk> cprov: can we get to the state we can do that?
[10:11] <Keybuk> just a p-u run of security will suffice for now
[10:14] <cprov> Keybuk: yes, run the cron line, first do it with "-N --log-file /tmp/foo" so we can check the log 
[10:16] <Keybuk> hmm, never mind, there's nothing _in_ the security upload queue!
[10:25] <sivang> hmm, is there a way to ask from launchpad a list of all LP specific specs that are going to be discussed in uds-paris ?
[10:27] <Keybuk> it's not a Launchpad spec summit
[10:30] <sivang> Keybuk: ah, k.
[10:45] <kiko> SteveA, is there a standard idiom for grabbing an element from a set?
[10:56] <SteveA> how do you mean, a set?
[10:56] <SteveA> like a python set?
[10:57] <SteveA> or an entry-point into our content object space?
[10:57] <SteveA> i suppose the latter
[10:57] <SteveA> although it seems strange to call it an "element"
[10:59] <kiko> an item I guess
[10:59] <kiko> a python set yes SteveA 
[11:00] <SteveA> ok
[11:00] <SteveA> now i need to ask what you mean by "grabbing an element"
[11:01] <SteveA> the point of a set is that you have the element already
[11:01] <SteveA> and you want to see if it is in the set or not
[11:01] <SteveA> you can do fancy (or dodgy) stuff with things that compare __eq__ equal, and hash equal, but are different
[11:01] <SteveA> but that is dodgy and you're better off using a dict for that
[11:03] <SteveA> perhaps .pop() is what you want?
[11:05] <SteveA> or perhaps just element in set ?
[11:07] <kiko> I don't want to modify the set
[11:07] <kiko> I just want
[11:07] <kiko> random.choice(s)
[11:07] <kiko> however random.choice requires a list(s)
[11:07] <bradb> BjornT: any news on the xmlrpc fix timeframe?
[11:09] <DaSkreech> Can I reset a name of a launchpad entry?
[11:09] <SteveA> kiko: so, random.choice(list(s))
[11:09] <kiko> yeah.
[11:10] <SteveA> is it a very large set?
[11:11] <DaSkreech> or would I need OPs to do that?
[11:14] <SteveA> hi DaSkreech 
[11:14] <DaSkreech> Hello
[11:14] <SteveA> what specifically do you want to rename?
[11:14] <DaSkreech> I was unaware that the name was the name of the topic not myname :)
[11:14] <DaSkreech> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/rogerpixley
[11:15] <DaSkreech> Ican change the title but not the URL
[11:16] <SteveA> what should the last part of the URL be?
[11:18] <DaSkreech> gisdesktop
[11:19] <SteveA> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gisdesktop
[11:19] <SteveA> done
[11:19] <SteveA> sorry about the confusing UI
[11:19] <SteveA> we should fix that
[11:19] <SteveA> mpt: interesting UI experience here
[11:20] <DaSkreech> SteveA: So I couldn't have done that
[11:21] <SteveA> right
[11:21] <DaSkreech> Ok just making sure :)
[11:59] <mpt> SteveA, see, I told you it wasn't a name :-P
[12:00] <SteveA> mpt: what it is is immaterial.  it is what it is *called* that counts.
[12:00] <jordi> if my email isn't fixed tomorrow morning, I will tell kiko to communicate with me via Orkut
[12:00] <jordi> this will be great.
[12:00] <DaSkreech> SteveA: Thanks
[12:01] <DaSkreech> jordi: Cool you are on Orkut?
[12:01] <jordi> SteveA, kiko: I sent that email to the list.
[12:01] <jordi> SteveA: please advise, if you have ideas :)
[12:01] <jordi> DaSkreech: oh yes. I hopped in on the week of the debut
[12:01] <jordi> then, I got bored.
[12:02] <jordi> and then, BR took over :)
[12:02] <jordi> nite!
[12:02] <mpt> SteveA, in this case, "Specification ID", auto-generated by JavaScript from the title if possible
[12:02] <DaSkreech> Nice. I've been there for a while and have no friends :)
[12:03] <kiko> SteveA, nope, small set.
[12:03] <SteveA> kiko: then using list() is fine, it will be very efficient
[12:04] <kiko> thanks!
[12:04] <kiko> SteveA, and you think cprov should use random.choice rather than list(s)[-1] , right?
[12:04] <SteveA> well, that depends if you want a random choice
[12:05] <kiko> well
[12:05] <kiko> sets aren't ordered
[12:05] <kiko> let's say "we don't care"
[12:05] <SteveA> "random" has a particular meaning
[12:05] <SteveA> if you don't care whether you get a "fair" distribution, then use whatever