[12:14] <pvanhoof> about OLPC, "We have heard multiple people say that QEMU doesn't work with these images on the debian-derived distributions. We also haven't heard of any solutions to these problems. The symptom is that the kernel hangs during boot."
[12:14] <pvanhoof> I'm experiencing the problem
[12:14] <pvanhoof> does somebody know howcome this is happening?
[12:15] <pvanhoof> I know it hangs while probing for the IDE busses (in the kernel being run on the emulated hardware)
[12:15] <pvanhoof> http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php/OLPC_Software_Testing
[12:15] <pvanhoof> It would be nice if I could do development for the OLPC device using ubuntu, which is why I ask 
[12:17] <sladen> pvanhoof: it could be our IDE probing which is different in udev
[12:17] <pvanhoof> does it affects ide probing in a qemu environment?
[12:17] <mjg59> No
[12:18] <pvanhoof> I think blizzard added the note after I reported this .. he added it to the wiki the same day I mailed
[12:18] <pvanhoof> http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=OLPC_Software_Testing&diff=5357&oldid=5356
[12:18] <pvanhoof> so I don't know if a lot people are experiencing this
[12:19] <pvanhoof> http://olpc.download.redhat.com/olpc/streams/development/latest/images/
[12:19] <mjg59> Let me have a go
[12:19] <pvanhoof> I'm going to test with the latest image once downloaded
[12:19] <pvanhoof> I'm at 11%
[12:20] <neuralis> the images hang at the IDE hard drive probe. not just OLPC image.s
[12:20] <neuralis> *images.
[12:20] <pvanhoof> so there's a defect in qemu in general?
[12:20] <neuralis> i've actually built our qemu, stripped of all debian-specific patches (29 of them, i believe), and it still wouldn't run.
[12:20] <neuralis> compiling the vanilla qemu from the qemu site works fine.
[12:20] <pvanhoof> maybe a problem with the version of qemu?
[12:20] <neuralis> i didn't do a diff between our orig tarball and the one i downloaded, though.
[12:21] <mjg59> Compiled with the same options?
[12:21] <pvanhoof> is there a reason not to bump the version of the package to the one on the website?
[12:21] <mjg59> Other than dapper being frozen and edgy not being open?
[12:21] <pvanhoof> hmm, good point
[12:23] <pvanhoof> well, if you know why (in source differences) you could backport the fix, and claim it's an upgrade ? :)
[12:24] <neuralis> pvanhoof: it's (generally) against policy if it's a functionality fix.
[12:24] <pvanhoof> neuralis, is it? the software doesn't work atm (or does it for other operating systems?)
[12:24] <pvanhoof> well, if I pass idex=noprobe, it boots
[12:25] <pvanhoof> but then I don't have a root partition of course
[12:25] <neuralis> pvanhoof: i understand it works for some images, and not for a bunch of others.
[12:25] <sladen> pvanhoof: idex or ide0 ?
[12:25] <pvanhoof> ide[nth] 
[12:25] <pvanhoof> if you allow any ide to get probed, it will probably hang
[12:26] <sladen> pvanhoof: so what did you actually type to get it to boot?
[12:26] <pvanhoof> I got it to boot with probing once
[12:26] <pvanhoof> qemu -monitor pty -hda ./olpc-2006_02_06_16_08.ext3 -net nic,vlan=0,macaddr=52:54:0:47:b:0 -net user,vlan=0 -serial null -parallel null -M pc -boot c -m 128 -smp 1
[12:26] <sladen> pvanhoof: and there's no partition table at the front of those images?  They're just straight ext images?
[12:26] <pvanhoof> you'll have to ask the olpc folks
[12:27] <pvanhoof> how can I check?
[12:27] <neuralis> sladen: qemu -hda <imgfile> is enough to boot those.
[12:27] <pvanhoof> I can't (for example) mount them using loopback
[12:27] <herzi> pvanhoof: file <image>
[12:27] <pvanhoof> pvanhoof@lort:~/Temp$ file ./olpc-2006_02_06_16_08.ext3
[12:27] <pvanhoof> ./olpc-2006_02_06_16_08.ext3: x86 boot sector, code offset 0x48
[12:27] <pvanhoof> pvanhoof@lort:~/Temp$
[12:28] <neuralis> pvanhoof: also, that image is *ancient*.
[12:28] <sladen> pvanhoof: not  sudo mount -o loop -t ext3 *img /mnt ?
[12:28] <pvanhoof> yes, I'm downloading a new one
[12:28] <pvanhoof> root@lort:/home/pvanhoof/Temp# mount -o loop -t ext3 olpc-2006_02_06_16_08.ext3 /mnt
[12:28] <pvanhoof> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/loop0,
[12:28] <pvanhoof> etc
[12:29] <sladen> pvanhoof: oh, right, they're an ext3 image with a boot block on the front
[12:29] <pvanhoof> hmm, I can't pass an offset to -o loop?
[12:29] <pvanhoof> pity
[12:30] <Fjodor> pvanhoof: You could dd to a new file?
[12:30] <pvanhoof> right, but that's a new copy.. I'd have to cat after making adjustments
[12:30] <pvanhoof> more work  :)
[12:31] <pvanhoof> maybe with one of those reiserfs features ;)
[12:31] <mjg59> pvanhoof: Not with -o loop, but you can with losetup
[12:31] <Fjodor> Oh well, just a shot from the hip...
[12:31] <sladen> pvanhoof: losetup -o 32768 foo.img /dev/loop0
[12:31] <pvanhoof> never used losetup
[12:31] <sladen> pvanhoof: then mount that
[12:31] <pvanhoof> oh, trying
[12:31] <pvanhoof> ioctl: LOOP_SET_FD: Inappropriate ioctl for device
[12:32] <sladen> pvanhoof: actually, you can probably just do   mount -o loop,offset=32768 foo.img /mnt
[12:33] <pvanhoof> doesn't work (maybe the offset is wrong?)
[12:33] <bluefoxicy> ugh, I can link to a Gentoo bugzilla entry, but not to a bug in the Gentoo distribution.
[12:33] <pvanhoof> I'll search myself soon .. if I get it to mount, I'll tell you
[12:34] <sladen> pvanhoof: dd if=foo.img bs=1 skip=32768 | file   ?
[12:35] <pvanhoof> you want the output of that? I don't think file reads stdin
[12:35] <pvanhoof> dd if=olpc-2006_02_06_16_08.ext3 bs=1 skip=32768 of=test, I'll file test
[12:35] <pvanhoof> ... :)
[12:36] <pvanhoof> it's a gig, so .. it'll take a few seconds
[12:36] <pvanhoof> # file test
[12:36] <pvanhoof> test: data
[12:37] <pvanhoof> I just removed the file, downloading a new version..
[12:39] <mjg59> Yeah, the orig.tar.gz from Ubuntu is broken
[12:39] <crimsun_> lovely :/
[12:40] <mjg59> Let me try the upstream 0.8.0
[12:50] <mjg59> Upstream 0.8.0 is broken
[12:56] <netstar> root@snowdrop:/home# ps -e | grep gaim | wc -l
[12:56] <netstar> 124
[12:57] <netstar> not good
[12:58] <netstar> I think there's a bug
[12:58] <ajmitch> morning
[12:58] <\sh> netstar: you have what? 124 gaim processes?
[12:58] <netstar> yes!
[12:58] <netstar> lol
[12:59] <netstar> now 137
[01:00] <netstar> PowerPC
[01:00] <netstar> Dapper
[01:00] <netstar> :/
[01:00] <mjg59> Upstream 0.8.1 also appears broken for me
[01:00] <\sh> netstar: quickfix? apt-get install gajim ;)
[01:00] <netstar> every message I send, spawns a new process
[01:00] <\sh> netstar: if you intend to use jabber only
[01:01] <netstar> I hope other people don't have this problem, it's BAD
[01:01] <pygi> mjg59, may I ask what is broken?
[01:02] <mjg59> pygi: qemu with the olpc dev images
[01:03] <mjg59> neuralis: How did you build the upstream version of qemu that worked?
[01:03] <mjg59> I can't get 0.8.1 to run it either
[01:14] <neuralis> mjg59: it hangs in the same place for you, or do you get a different error?
[01:15] <mjg59> neuralis: Same place
[01:15] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  while on the subject of qemu, I can't seem to get ppc to boot in qemu from x86 or x86-64.  Just something for the back of your mind.
[01:15] <mjg59> That's with ./configure --prefix=/usr --cc=gcc-3.4
[01:15] <neuralis> mjg59: i used identical options. 
[01:15] <mjg59> Interesting
[01:17] <neuralis> mjg59: as a sanity check, make sure you're invoking the newly-built binary if you kept the package aroudn
[01:17] <neuralis> *around.
[01:19] <mjg59> neuralis: I'm running it from the source tree
[01:20] <mjg59> Yeah, hard hangs when it gets to IDE probing
[01:20] <mjg59> Cursor stops blinking
[01:20] <neuralis> mjg59: i'm happy to toss you this binary, but i'm not sure that'll get us anywhere
[01:20] <mjg59> Probably not, yeah
[01:21] <neuralis> yeah, just loaded the image again, works fine.
[01:26] <neuralis> mjg59: by the way, did you sign up for one of the A-test boards with us? i know we wanted to get you one asap
[01:34] <\sh> guys, regarding keybuks mail about bzr usage for edgy...who is entitled to use this sftp supermirror? every LP user with ssh pub key attached?
[01:51] <mjg59> neuralis: Yup
[01:51] <mjg59> neuralis: At least, I filled in the form - don't think I got any confirmation
[01:53] <neuralis> okay, that's fine. i'll make sure one gets to you, just wanted a reminder.
[02:20] <bluefoxicy> who maintains libgcj7/gcc
[02:20] <bluefoxicy> because I need serious help test-hacking it.
[02:20] <bluefoxicy> (in about half an hour, after my shower)
[02:21] <\sh> bluefoxicy: I don't think doko is awake at this time of the day...it's 2am utc+2
[02:22] <bluefoxicy> \sh:  it.
[02:23] <bluefoxicy> \sh:  well if you see anyone else who knows htf I can get a command run immediately after all tarballs are done being unpacked.....
[02:23] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:/tmp/x/gcj-4.1-4.1.0$ ls
[02:23] <bluefoxicy> debian  gcc-4.1.0.tar.bz2
[02:24] <bluefoxicy> (no I don't know why dapper has gcc 4.0.3 and gcj from 4.1.0)
[03:15] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:16] <Riddell> what provides the low disk indicator in gnome?
[03:34] <crimsun_> Riddell: gnome-volume-manager
[03:37] <Riddell> crimsun_: but of course :)
[03:43] <bddebian> Heya crimsun_
[03:43] <crimsun_> 'lo bddebian 
[04:06] <bluefoxicy> is Edgy going to gcc 4.1.0 or 4.1.1?
[04:08] <ajmitch> bluefoxicy: see edgy-changes.. 4.1.1 is there
[04:08] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  edgy-changes ... mailing list, wiki, etc?
[04:08] <ajmitch> mailing list
[04:08] <bluefoxicy> thanks.
[04:09] <ajmitch> doko tracks the 4.1 branch in SVN, it seems
[04:09] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  I'm trying to figure out why the heck we have executable stacks on libffi and libgcj
[04:09] <doko> ajmitch: what's the problem?
[04:09] <bluefoxicy> Gentoo doesn't have them, and I checked the code, it looks sane to turn the PT_GNU_STACK off
[04:10] <ajmitch> doko: no problem :)
[04:10] <bluefoxicy> the cause seems to be that a few .S files do not have .note.GNU-stack in them, so binutils goes "WTF?  I dunno I'll just assume tehy want an executable stack" when it sees the .o file during linking
[04:11] <\sh> oh another one who can't sleep...moins doko :)
[04:11] <bluefoxicy> but I don't see a patch for it in gentoo's CVS
[04:11] <bluefoxicy> (not that fixing it is that hard..)
[04:14] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[04:15] <Hobbsee> hey bddebian 
[04:15] <\sh> moins Hobbsee
[04:15] <bluefoxicy> ok guys I'm going to not pretend I understand wtf any of this says, since I don't know powerpc assembly.  x86 looks fine.
[04:15] <Hobbsee> hey \sh 
[04:16] <Hobbsee> anyone got a heater?
[04:16] <\sh> Hobbsee: if a flat under the roof is passing as a heater, then yes ;)
[04:16] <bluefoxicy> I have a small chihuahua, he's kind of warm, you can hold that.
[04:16] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:16] <Hobbsee> oh thankyou
[04:19] <bluefoxicy> weird.. hm.
[04:23] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  OK I can't figure this out, the tree references .note.GNU-stack but doesn't seem to insert it anywhere useful.  My verdict is dump one into every .S file, but that's very unscientific...
[04:24] <sladen> is it getting striped?
[04:24] <bluefoxicy> sladen:  hmm?
[04:24] <bluefoxicy> no, it's not strippable.
[04:24] <bluefoxicy> It's just not getting added.
[04:25] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:/tmp/x/gcj-4.1-4.1.0$ scanelf -qeRt . RWX --- ---   ./build/i486-linux-gnu/libjava/.libs/libgcj.so.7.0.0
[04:25] <bluefoxicy> RWX --- ---   ./build/i486-linux-gnu/libffi/.libs/libffi.so.4.0.1
[04:25] <bluefoxicy> err.
[04:25] <bluefoxicy> that RWX should be on the next line... anyway, those are the two output files, the X there indicates they have PT_GNU_STACK marked to give an executable stack
[04:26] <sladen> can you format/cut-that down and highlight what we're trying to look at?
[04:26] <bluefoxicy> RWX --- ---   ./build/i486-linux-gnu/libffi/.libs/libffi.so.4.0.1
[04:27] <bluefoxicy> Memory protections on the stack will be PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE|PROT_EXECUTE when this library is loaded.  This was scanelf'd after a dpkg-buildpackage in the source tree for libgcj; those two .so.* files become libraries that get packaged and later installed.
[04:28] <bluefoxicy> !WX --- ---   ./build/i486-linux-gnu/libffi/src/x86/.libs/sysv.o  <---- There are four output files like this.  They are built from corresponding .S input files in libffi/src/x86/.  the "!" indicates that a .note.GNU-stack isn't in the object file
[04:29] <bluefoxicy> the result f not having that section in the object file is that the linker (ld), when building the shared objects out of it, cannot determine if the objects need an executable stack or not.  it assumes that they want an executable stack, and marks the output file as such.
[04:31] <bluefoxicy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardenedHacking  <-- this brain dump has an example of me "fixing" gnupg, as per http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/gnu-stack.xml ; I should probably note I didn't check the other architectures' assembly at all, I keep forgetting about that entirely
[04:31] <bluefoxicy> (writing assembly to bounce off the stack is WEIRD anyway, and not normal; it's highly complex and in general just doesn't happen, but it's not IMPOSSIBLE so..)
[04:32] <bluefoxicy> anyway
[04:32] <bluefoxicy> What it comes down to is, I don't want stuff having an executable stack.
[04:32] <bluefoxicy> If it just doesn't need it, get rid of it; if it needs it, then ... well, need to figure out WHY, fix it, and THEN get rid of it.
[04:33] <bluefoxicy> ("Why" usually == gcc nested function, which requires code rewriting)
[04:57] <\sh> first time usage of latest dapper firefox, and it connects to www.google-analytics.com?
[04:58] <bluefoxicy> \sh: zomg spywarz!
[04:59] <\sh> well, it's only for first time usage somehow...WTF
[04:59] <jsgotangco> yeah WTF indeed
[04:59] <\sh> I grep the source
[04:59] <\sh> or whereever it hides
[05:00] <dieman> yeah, weird
[05:02] <jsgotangco> upstream firefox changes the frontpage for the first time for any update but since we backport fixes we should still get the welcome to ubuntu homepage
[05:03] <\sh> jsgotangco: it comes
[05:03] <Hobbsee> on kde, it doesnt show the standard gnome page for firefox anyway, does it?  doesnt it usually show another form of help page?
[05:04] <\sh> jsgotangco: the problem is, when you want to connect to another website...for the first time. and I'm sure, that heise.de doesn't have any links or images or ads to www.google-analytics.com
[05:04] <\sh> Hobbsee: it shows the kde page
[05:04] <Hobbsee> oh right
[05:10] <\sh> ok it's not firefox
[05:10] <\sh> but I found this: http://www.managersim.com/blog/index.php/?p=3
[05:16] <bluefoxicy> \sh:  how about package with Adblock, filterset.G updater, and a block on google-analytics in the default install ;)
[05:18] <\sh> bluefoxicy: no...I'll set 127.0.0.1
[05:19] <bluefoxicy> \sh:  I have an interesting question
[05:19] <bluefoxicy> How many people actually realize that adblock + filters + etc actually undermine the economic model of various businesses?
[05:20] <bluefoxicy> interestingly enough adblock doesn't kill google ads... even with filterset.G... and not because it "can't"
[05:20] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: probably most of them, but dont really care.  it's kinda like junk mail - it costs them, and they get close to nothing out of it.'
[05:20] <bluefoxicy> Hobbsee: nods.
[05:21] <\sh> bluefoxicy: google is a firefox sponsor, right? 
[05:22] <Hobbsee> oh score!  you can append to the adblock filters, not overwrite them!
[05:22] <bluefoxicy> \sh:  yeah, but I was more thinking google is the only one doing TEXT ads en masse, and the developers of adblock and adblock filter sets seem to be purposely ignoring these
[05:23] <bluefoxicy> I've seen wide commentary that people find text ads unintrusive, they find pages with those instead of huge flash or rapid-transition gif ads (100mS cycling through 5 colors?!) more attractive, etc
[05:23] <bluefoxicy> It makes me wonder, are we shaping the market? :)
[05:24] <Hobbsee> bleck.  flashblock fixes that problem a bit
[05:25] <bluefoxicy> Think about it.  First we killed pop-ups.  They keep trying but it just bugs people and most site owners got the hint.
[05:25] <bluefoxicy> Now we block banner ads via any means necessary, even via things like dan's guardian, squidguard, etc; right down to firefox extensions or greasemonkey scripts
[05:27] <bluefoxicy> In the end I wonder if the market will ditch advertisement revenue, or start focusing on unintrusive design, or what
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> Ah well
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> I'm probably the only person in the world that actually thinks on that scale :P
[05:31] <\sh> bluefoxicy: well, if we take the whole web community, and let's say 5% of them are blocking ads, and the other 95% don't care at all...so there is still enough of revenue for the ad machine ;)
[05:31] <\sh> I'm waiting for googles ads in rss feeds ;=
[05:32] <\sh> and google ads in google talk voip streams...every minute "we stop your conversation to present to you the new product of 'Brain 2.0'"
[05:32] <bluefoxicy> imagine google packing adblock with firefox, along with google toolbar
[05:32] <bluefoxicy> the SEC would shit a brick.
[05:33] <bluefoxicy> You'd see an army of lawyers in front of Google HQ with the Sherman Anti-Trust Act printed off a billion times
[05:34] <\sh> Sherman Anti Trust Act? is it valid in china or germany?
[05:35] <bluefoxicy> no it's the rockerfeller thing I think
[05:35] <bluefoxicy> back in the day there were two guys who had big businesses.  Rockerfeller was a gigabillionare oil company owner and Sherman had a steel company, IIRC
[05:35] <bluefoxicy> (sherman got $300 million over the life of his company)
[05:35] <\sh> sherman as in tanks?
[05:36] <bluefoxicy> Maybe.  I don't remember the exact details anymore.
[05:36] <bluefoxicy> But the point is
[05:36] <bluefoxicy> they had a nasty habit of buying both their competetors and their suppliers.
[05:36] <bluefoxicy> SO picture an oil company.  They buy the company that makes the drills, the pumps, and the steel that's used to make them, and the mining company that mines the ore that it sells the steel co.
[05:37] <bluefoxicy> Things become VERY cheap.
[05:37] <bluefoxicy> The whole markup chain is gone.
[05:38] <bluefoxicy> On the other side, you have people in your market compteing with you, who you simply either A) buy out; or B) make unprofitable, usually by fixing your prices far too low (via the vertical monopoly)
[05:38] <\sh> ok..sorry to interrupt you, but I have to go to work...I think amu is waiting for me downstairs :)
[05:38] <bluefoxicy> oh ok
[05:38] <\sh> laters...so in 3-4 hours
[05:38] <bluefoxicy> at any rate laws were made against establishing monopolies this way... blocking competetors' services fits into the mix :)
[05:39] <bluefoxicy> (i.e. having an ad company and supplieng a product blocking others' ads)
[05:39] <bluefoxicy> and I'm done
[06:03] <bluefoxicy> doko:  ping
[06:04] <crimsun_> (he's probably asleep)
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> oh
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> he was awake an hour ago :(
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> or not.
[06:08] <bluefoxicy>   RWX --- ---  /usr/lib/openoffice/program/libgcc3_uno.so  <-- this and libflac7 (...wtf?) are responsible for OpenOffice.org's executable stack (what the heck is libgcc3_uno.so by the by?)
[06:23] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[07:16] <pitti> Good morning
[07:16] <pitti> hey ajmitch 
[07:16] <ajmitch> hey pitti 
[07:16] <ajmitch> how are you?
[07:19] <pitti> ajmitch: pretty fine, and you?
[07:20] <ajmitch> doing alright
[07:20] <ajmitch> plenty to do :)
[09:29] <dholbach> good morning
[09:53] <dholbach> What are the uploads that need to happen to let the archive accept uploads again and get stuff built?
[10:00] <fabbione> dholbach: there are still issues with souyz
[10:01] <fabbione> dholbach: otherwise only gcc-default i think
[10:01] <dholbach> go go go go go!
[10:01] <dholbach> :-)
[10:04] <pitti> iwj: funny, '$ yelp' crashes even in current breezy; no wonder it crashed in a chroot
[10:06] <dholbach> urg
[10:06] <dholbach> I suppose yelp, galeon, epiphany etc have to be rebuilt
[10:06] <sivang> morning all
[10:07] <sivang> they are now stressing how important it is to secure a WLAN 
[10:11] <pitti> dholbach: I mean even before installing ffox 1.5
[10:12] <pitti> sivang: the only reason for securing a wlan is access protection; depending on your quota/bandwidth it might not be that important :)
[10:12] <dholbach> pitti: did we have other firefox update or security uploads before?
[10:12] <pitti> dholbach: sure, from 1.0.7 to 1.0.8 in breezy
[10:12] <azeem> pitti: well, legal issues might be involved, too, if somebody is doing something illegal while using your bandwidth
[10:13] <pitti> dholbach: oh, the 'Help' entry in the System menu works fine, just 'yelp' in a shell crashes
[10:13] <dholbach> pitti: might be that the exposed symbols changed in that release as well
[10:13] <dholbach> pitti: could you have a look at the backtrace?
[10:13] <dholbach> pitti: anything Firefox-related?
[10:13] <pitti> dholbach: and pressing F1 in the terminal and on desktop works as well (with current breezy-security)
[10:13] <pitti> dholbach: so it's not that important for the current version
[10:14] <pitti> dholbach: hm; call me whatever, but now 'yelp' works in a shell as well
[10:14] <pitti> dholbach: seems it started a daemon or whatnot
[10:14] <dholbach> urg!
[10:14] <dholbach> ... cosmic rays
[10:14] <dholbach> or something
[10:14] <sivang> pitti: they just showed how to someone uses aircrack over all his block neighbour  and then tells them how to secure it :)
[11:14] <pvanhoof> mjg59, about the qemu problem and OLPC images: I still have the problem with non-ancient OLPC images
[11:15] <mjg59> pvanhoof: Yes. I don't understand the problem
[11:15] <mjg59> I can reproduce it with upstream source
[11:16] <pvanhoof> ok
[11:16] <mjg59> Which implies toolchain or something
[11:16] <pvanhoof> lets talk with the author?
[11:16] <pvanhoof> of qemu
[11:17] <mjg59> I'm really lacking the time to right now, but feel free
[11:17] <dholbach> does anybody know about the nature of the soyuz problems we're having?
[11:25] <lifeless> mjg59: who is the right person to talk with about loading ac and battery earlier ?
[11:25] <lifeless> mjg59: There is a bug they should be aware of.
[11:25] <mjg59> Me
[11:26] <mjg59> (probably)
[11:26] <kagou> hi
[11:28] <lifeless> mjg59: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/powermgmt-base/+bug/49240
[11:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49240 in powermgmt-base "on_ac_power script returns 255 during boot" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  
[11:28] <kagou> pitti, around ?
[11:29] <pitti> kagou: yes
[11:29] <kagou> pitti, there is a security issu in dovecot : http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot-news/2006-May/000006.html that is included in the debian package http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/dovecot/dovecot_1.0.beta8-2/changelog
[11:30] <kagou> pitti, i don't know if this is important so i just point you that
[11:30] <pitti> kagou: I already fixed dapper a few weeks ago, and breezy/hoary are not affected
[11:31] <pitti> kagou: but thanks for cross-checking :)
[11:31] <kagou> pitti, np :)
[11:32] <kagou> pitti, can we have changelog page like in debian http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/dovecot/dovecot_1.0.beta8-2/changelog or may be i miss that
[11:33] <pitti> kagou: changelogs.ubuntu.com
[11:33] <pitti> kagou: btw, http://changelogs.debian.net/dovecot <= easier to type
[11:33] <kagou> pitti, i mean integer in launchpad :)
[11:34] <pitti> kagou: not yet AFAIK
[11:34] <pygi> sivang, poke? :P
[11:34] <kagou> ok :p
[11:35] <kagou> pitti, may be i found a bug in dovecot, because /etc/init.d/dovecot require to test inetd.conf but this file is not installed in  default installation
[11:36] <kagou> pitti, if you agree with me i open one
[11:39] <iwj> pitti: Hi.  I've just been reading your messages ...
[11:40] <pitti> iwj: good morning
[11:55] <dholbach> fabbione: you said there was trouble with soyuz regarding "opening edgy for real usage" - do you happen to know what the problems are?
[11:56] <pitti> dholbach: at first it was due to getting the toolchain debs as very first updates; no idea about recent problems
[11:56] <fabbione> dholbach: i think that at the moment edgy is missing _all.deb packages. i *think* they are not published properly, but infinity knows the details
[11:56] <fabbione> dholbach: you can see that today you can't install gcj
[11:57] <dholbach> :-(
[11:57] <fabbione> at least this morning..
[11:57] <fabbione> i am syncing the mirror now
[11:59] <dholbach> the gnome 2.15 releases are piling up, I'd love to get them in asap or else we'll have a badly tested gnome :-/
[12:00] <dholbach> but I stop complaining
[12:02] <tseng> dholbach: i thought the same
[12:16] <sivang> dholbach: get them in for dapper?
[12:16] <dholbach> sivang: 2.15???
[12:17] <sivang> dholbach: oops sorry, no :-)
[12:17] <dholbach> what I thought
[12:22] <fabbione> dholbach: don't worry... you will have a lot of time for the entire edgy cycle...
[12:23] <dholbach> fabbione: plus one week paris, then one week guadec -- i personally think ~8 weeks less testing will make a difference
[12:24] <tseng> dholbach: we can do a hackerfest at guadec and get it in
[12:24] <dholbach> plus whatever time it takes to make the archive happy and accepting+building stuff again
[12:24] <tseng> dholbach: ill be your helper
[12:24] <dholbach> tseng: sounds like a cool idea
[12:24] <tseng> woo!
[12:26] <tseng> it can be like bootstrapping mono on amd64 from a udu bof
[12:26] <dholbach> only 21 tarballs for dapper-updates and 56 for edgy left
[12:26] <dholbach> ROCK ON
[12:27] <dholbach> but seb128 has some of them pending, so it's actually not that bad
[12:27] <dholbach> merging the debian changes and doing the splitting according to upstream changes takes quite some time
[12:27] <tseng> ok i need to get to work
[12:28] <tseng> bye dholbach 
[12:28] <dholbach> have a nice day tseng!
[12:30] <fabbione> dholbach: don't worry.. there is going to be a release schedule meeting in Paris, in which you can propose to split the 6 weeks delay of dapper into edgy and edgy+1
[12:30] <fabbione> dholbach: giving us 3 weeks "extra" for edgy
[12:30] <fabbione> if you and all the others there will do the same, it will happen
[12:31] <dholbach> fabbione: if edgy is going to be the "it's broken" release, having 6 weeks less is fine for me, if we then can get back to our old rhythm
[12:31] <dholbach> so it will be x.04 and x.10 again
[12:31] <dholbach> and match gnome's release schedule too
[12:32] <sladen> and by stealing that time from edgy+1 it's making edgy+1 into a worse release;  and without the excuse the "Dapper just released, with is exceptional"
[12:56] <fabbione> sladen: we still need to provide 18 months support on edgy
[12:56] <sladen> where did the netinst CDs go
[12:56] <sladen> fabbione: and 18months of support edgy+1
[12:56] <fabbione> you don't want to endup having to fix edgy while doing edgy+1
[12:56] <fabbione> sladen: right, splitting the 6 weeks into 2 is more even than killing one release for good
[12:57] <fabbione> 3 weeks of less development are sustainable
[12:57] <fabbione> 6, i doubt
[12:57] <fabbione> sladen: netinst are on archive.u.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/
[12:57] <fabbione> install-$arch and follow the paths
[12:57] <sladen> fabbione: thanks;  I'd been hunting cdimage.u.com
[12:59] <sladen> those don't appear to be netinst ISO's.  rather the files needed for netbooting
[01:00] <fabbione> sladen: what arch are you looking for?
[01:00] <zul> heylo
[01:01] <ajmitch> hey zul 
[01:01] <zul> hey ajmitch how goes it?
[01:01] <fabbione> sladen: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[01:01] <ajmitch> too cold here to do much this evening :)
[01:01] <zul> heh
[01:02] <ajmitch> well, it's not too bad actually
[01:02] <fabbione> meh i wish somebody would like to change with me...
[01:02] <fabbione> i hate this 26/28C
[01:02] <fabbione> and i can't turn on my toys or they will melt down
[01:02] <zul> thats not too bad.
[01:02] <fabbione> zul: it is for me :(
[01:02] <fabbione> i hate this warm weather
[01:02] <fabbione> tho it lasts only a week or two here
[01:03] <ajmitch> fabbione: I'd swap, but you'd hate the connectivity here
[01:03] <zul> bloody third world ;)
[01:03] <ajmitch> I reckon
[01:03] <fabbione> ajmitch: "here" as in .au?
[01:04] <ajmitch> .nz
[01:04] <fabbione> oh the other side of the world.. it wouldn't work either.. last time i was there, i had issue to hold to the world with the hands and type with the feet
[01:05] <ajmitch> you sure that wasn't just because of the local beer?
[01:05] <fabbione> eheh
[01:08] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: just hack harder and you'll generate heat. :-)
[01:10] <ajmitch> heh
[01:20] <hunger> When will the syncing with debian start for edgy?
[01:20] <fabbione> hunger: once the toolchain is all in place
[01:20] <fabbione> and soyuz proven to be stable enough
[01:21] <triceratops> How will drivemount-applet show an icon for unmounted devices? Since Dapper only for mounted drives icons are shown. It's a bit anoying because there is nothing to see from drivemount-applet in the panel. I accidental / occassionally noticed this behaviour whilst I added three drivemount applets to the panel. And I would bet a lot of novice users will run into this...
[01:22] <hunger> fabbione: Thanks for the info.
[01:23] <fabbione> hunger: might be anytime soon tomorrow
[01:23] <fabbione> tomorrow -> within the next 24/48 hours
[01:37] <zul> *whine* but i want it now..
[01:37] <Hobbsee> zul: what's this for?
[01:37] <zul> i was being sarcastic
[01:39] <fabbione> zul: do you realize that if you want to do -security you can't really run the latestest, but better to have N partitions with all the -stable -oldstable -veryoldstale releases?
[01:39] <zul> fabbione: i realize that 
[01:40] <zul> and i already have that 
[01:40] <fabbione> so you don't need edgy till it's -stable or -oldstale
[01:48] <janimo> is it expected that uploads to dapper-updates send Rejected mails? I know they need manual approval
[01:49] <fabbione> janimo: did you coordinate the upload?
[01:50] <fabbione> otherwise it might have been rejected manually
[01:50] <fabbione> not all uploads are approved for -updates
[01:52] <janimo> fabbione: yes mdz approved it
[01:54] <jordi> mdz: time to revisit nano for dapper?
[01:55] <Keybuk> "revisit" ?
[01:56] <fabbione> dapper?
[01:56] <fabbione> jordi: dapper has been released ;)
[01:57] <fabbione> jordi: btw.. marga was looking for you around
[01:58] <jordi> fabbione: I know. I need to have some private conversations about this in the evening
[01:59] <jordi> Keybuk, fabbione there was some fixes to nano punted until the release was done as it would have meant a di rebuild
[02:00] <fabbione> jordi: there will be relatively soon a d-i upload
[02:00] <fabbione> jordi: so if there is something that needs to go in, you better hurry up 
[02:01] <janimo> jordi, are rosetta translations going to be uploaded in dapper-updates in a few days?
[02:01] <janimo> I sent carlos a .po file (thunar/romanian) a while ago, he said he had uploaded it but in rosetta I only see the state before that
[02:07] <jordi> janimo: yes
[02:07] <jordi> hmm
[02:07] <jordi> janimo: can you upload it again?
[02:08] <jordi> or send it to me
[02:30] <zyga> hi
[02:30] <zyga> does anyone know if SABDFL will sign gpg keys today in warsaw?
[02:34] <tseng> the only people who know mark's schedule are probably himself and cvd
[02:35] <Hobbsee> who's cvd?
[02:35] <tseng> Claire Davis.. the only woman brave enough to tackle Mark's schedule
[02:35] <ogra> Hobbsee, marks awesome schedule managing machine 
[02:36] <Hobbsee> ah
[02:36] <tseng> I heard she is being integrated with Launchpad
[02:36] <Hobbsee> well, women are good at organisation, you know...
[02:36] <lifeless> tseng: Mark probably doesn't know. All hail cvd.
[02:37] <tseng> lifeless: true.
[02:37] <Keybuk> ah yes, the legendary sabdfl "what am I talking about again?"
[02:38] <lifeless> 'where am I' ?
[02:39] <zyga> shees ;] 
[02:39] <zyga> I want to know if it makes sense to print my gpg fingertpint a couple of times
[02:40] <lifeless> it always makes sense to do that
[02:41] <janimo> jordi, I just sent you the .po file
[02:43] <jordi> janimo: ok
[02:49] <highvoltage> where's marelize?
[02:49] <highvoltage> it's her birthday today. i guess i'll have to walk over to her building to congratulate her then :)
[02:53] <jsgotangco> whoa happy birthday miss shipit
[02:54] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: happy birthday to ajmitch too, even though he doesnt want to admit to it  (it still is, in most timezones)
[02:54] <jsgotangco> whoa i didnt know that
[02:55] <Hobbsee> i'm pretty sure it is - it's either the 10th or the 12th
[02:55] <Hobbsee> and his jabber says the 12th, but also says the wrong year..
[03:19] <G0SUB_> pitti: hello!
[03:20] <pitti> hello G0SUB_ 
[03:20] <G0SUB_> pitti: I have a bad Internet outage in my place :(
[03:20] <G0SUB_> pitti: can we have the meeting tomorrow?
[03:20] <pitti> G0SUB_: of course
[03:20] <pitti> mvo: are you available tomorrow for a meeting with G0SUB_ ?
[03:20] <G0SUB_> pitti: thanks a lot :) the specs are all done. I just need to update the wiki
[03:23] <mvo> pitti: yes
[03:23] <G0SUB_> fine, see you guys ... sorry for today :(
[03:59] <highvoltage> someone should tell sabdfl that html pink backgrounds are not cool
[04:00] <highvoltage> (me didn't say that, by the way)
[04:00] <spacey> :p
[04:01] <jsgotangco> HAHAHAA
[04:01] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: think of it as him experimenting edgy backgrounds
[04:05] <Hobbsee> we will *not* have a pink desktop!
[04:05] <Hobbsee> pink is not a cool colour for a desktop.
[04:05] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: but it'll attract women!!1oneone
[04:05] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: let me tell you, that it wont :P  hehe
[04:05] <Hobbsee> being one myself :D
[04:06] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: how about a lilac desktop?  *ducks*
[04:06] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you're a statistical sample of one, and therefore not very interesting (statistically speaking)
[04:06] <Hobbsee> heya bddebian 
[04:06] <Hobbsee> well thanks a lot Mithrandir :P
[04:06] <bddebian> Hi folks
[04:06] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
[04:06] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I like lilacs.
[04:07] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you know what lilac is?
[04:07] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: yes, we have a ton of them in the garden at my father's
[04:07] <Hobbsee> oh wow!
[04:08] <Mithrandir> their colour isn't always lilac, though.  We have a bunch of white-ish ones too.
[04:08] <Hobbsee> the guys at school were most annoyed that they had to know what colour lilac was, and how it was different from violet - they thought that was most injust!
[04:09] <Mithrandir> it was unjust?  I don't see why it'd be that..
[04:09] <Hobbsee> that they'd be required to know so many colours - and they had to, for chem flame tests
[04:09] <Hobbsee> anyway, i could be pretty sure that a pink desktop will send popularity way down hehe :P
[04:09] <Mithrandir> lilacs remind me of Samuel Vimes.
[04:10] <Mithrandir> so now I have to go hunt for a suitable background for my desktop.
[04:10] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:10] <bddebian> Hey, I could go for a Hot Pink desktop ;-P
[04:10] <Hobbsee> bddebian: hehe!  bring it to paris, and take lots of pictures to show us who stay behind
[04:11] <bddebian> I'm not coming to Paris :-(
[04:12] <Hobbsee> :( why not?
[04:24] <Keybuk> bddebian: with all-leather cow interior?
[04:30] <zul> with whale skin hubcaps
[04:31] <bddebian> Keybuk: Yeah!
[04:31] <bddebian> zul: No, baby seal ;-P
[04:32] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Because I'm an ugly American ;-P
[04:32] <Keybuk> clearly bddebian hasn't heard the same song zul and I have ;p
[04:32] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:32] <bddebian> Oh, hmm
[04:33] <Hobbsee> bddebian: i would worry - i wouldnt think that anyone was actually pretty around here - it doesnt fit the linux stereotype, does it?
[04:33] <bddebian> Hobbsee: I'm kidding.  I just don't have time/money to go
[04:33] <Hobbsee> ah :P
[04:33] <bddebian> And they don't want me there anyway :-)
[04:33] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:33] <Hobbsee> only to tease
[04:36] <bddebian> Oh yeah, like I need abuse in person :-)
[04:36] <zul> oh you like the attention
[04:37] <bddebian> Sure
[04:37] <bddebian> heh
[04:37] <Hobbsee> well, as long as the attention is on you, and not on me, then i'm happy :P
[04:37] <bddebian> Hmm, what to do
[04:38] <Hobbsee> would this help?
[04:39] <jsgotangco> hah japan is kicking au's butt in the world cup
[04:40] <bddebian> :-)
[04:40] <bddebian> Hobbsee: No, I am debating between wading through more Unconfirmed bugs or something else
[04:40] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: excellent :P
[04:41] <Hobbsee> bddebian: fun.   do the bugwork
[04:52] <zul> jsgotangco: whats the score?
[04:52] <Riddell> Keybuk: are you able to see what's happened to qt-x11-free 3:3.3.6-1ubuntu4 in dapper-updates?
[04:52] <Hobbsee> zul: who cares?  :P
[04:53] <jsgotangco> wtf AU just scored 3 goals in the 2nd half
[04:53] <Keybuk> Riddell: I am
[04:53] <Keybuk> Riddell: who approved the upload?
[04:53] <Riddell> Keybuk: mdz did
[04:53] <Keybuk> it's still sitting in UNAPPROVED
[04:54] <jsgotangco> zul: au won 3-1.. i think japan is a bit stunned
[04:54] <zul> a bit...aus had 20 shots on goal
[04:54] <Riddell> Keybuk: can you approve it or shall I wait for mdz to turn up?
[04:55] <Keybuk> Riddell: I'm not sure I can approve it (I can from an archival point of view, I'm not sure I have the power from an authority point of view)
[04:55] <bddebian> Damn I'm good
[04:55] <Keybuk> will consult mdz when he's up
[04:56] <bddebian> Gah, I hate it when RL work gets in the way of Ubuntu stuff :-)
[04:57] <Riddell> Keybuk: and can you tell me the status of kubuntu-default-settings_6.06-22?
[04:58] <Keybuk> that one is not unapproved
[04:58] <Keybuk> when did you upload it?
[04:58] <sbalneav> ogra: ping
[04:58] <Riddell> Keybuk: 7 Jun.  launchpad says it needs build
[04:59] <Keybuk> Riddell: then it needs building
[04:59] <Keybuk> indeed, it is showing as published here
[04:59] <Riddell> although launchpad also says the qt updates is needs build
[05:00] <Keybuk> ubuntu4 vs. ubuntu5
[05:00] <Keybuk> sorry
[05:00] <Keybuk> ubuntu4 is indeed published
[05:00] <Keybuk> ubuntu5 is unapproved
[05:01] <Riddell> I don't remember uploading an ubuntu5
[05:02] <Riddell> so I should poke infinity about getting qt ubuntu4 and kubuntu-default-settings_6.06-22 compiled I guess
[05:02] <Keybuk> yup, buildds are on manual
[05:02] <Keybuk> because people insist on uploading to edgy
[05:03] <Keybuk> Changed-By: Matthias Klose <doko@ubuntu.com>
[05:03] <Keybuk>  qt-x11-free (3:3.3.6-1ubuntu5) dapper-updates; urgency=low
[05:03] <Keybuk>  .
[05:03] <Keybuk>    * Use ~/.qt-32 as user config directory, when running the i386
[05:03] <Keybuk>      binaries on amd64.
[05:03] <Keybuk>  .
[05:03] <Keybuk> for qt-x11-free in dapper-updates
[05:04] <doko> Keybuk: doesn't it work anymore? it's still working on my laptop ...
[05:04] <Keybuk> doko: doesn't what work anymore?
[05:04] <Riddell> doko: will that have overwitten my changes in ubuntu4?
[05:04] <doko> Riddell: why should it?
[05:04] <Keybuk> doko: who did you ask for approval before uploading that to dapper-updates ?
[05:05] <Riddell> doko: my ubuntu4 had changes for arabic fonts, did you include that?
[05:05] <doko> Keybuk: mdz and Kamion, will be followed by an upload of ia32-libs-kde
[05:05] <Keybuk> meh, we so need a procedure here <g>
[05:06] <doko> Keybuk: we have one, but you are not in the loop ...
[05:07] <Riddell> I'm not entirely in the loop either, launchpad should have a nice big notice that says "buildds are on manual, poke infinity"
[05:07] <Keybuk> Riddell: it does
[05:07] <doko> Riddell: hmm, overwritten. didn't see that ubuntu4
[05:07] <Keybuk> doko: that seems silly, given I'm the one who actually makes things appear in the archive atm :p
[05:07] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i'm starting to be of the opinion that you should have said "no, edgy is not open", and worked on the toolchain in almost-full secrecy
[05:08] <Keybuk> though I mean a procedure for mdz and kamion to indicate that a future upload is approved, so that me or infinity know to actually approve it
[05:08] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: we have said "no, edgy is not open"
[05:08] <Hobbsee> oh
[05:08] <doko> Keybuk: agreed, just announce it, that approval mails have to go to infinity and you as well
[05:09] <Riddell> doko: if you send me what you uploaded for qt ubuntu5 I can put in my patch and make an ubuntu6
[05:09] <Keybuk> Riddell: is there any particular reason you expect your patch to be missing?
[05:10] <Riddell> Keybuk: doko just said it was overwritten
[05:10] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/dokos.patch
[05:11] <doko> Riddell: could you send it me? or is -ubuntu4 in the archive ?
[05:11] <Keybuk> I see your point
[05:11] <Riddell> doko: it's in the archive
[05:12] <Riddell> kubuntu_01_arabic_fonts.dpatch and 00list are the changed files
[05:14] <doko> Riddell: ok, preparing an ubuntu6
[05:15] <Riddell> thanks doko 
[05:21] <janimo> mdz: I have uploaded the fixes I mentioned to dapper-updates
[05:46] <mdke> Znarl: you were looking for me earlier? still around?
[05:46] <neuralis> mjg59: ping
[06:23] <ogra> sbalneav, latepong
[06:23] <sbalneav> ogra: hey!  You ever use qemu for emulating a thin client?
[06:24] <ogra> i often tried to, but i'm to impatient i guess and gave up after 30min watching usplash slowly scroll
[06:24] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:24] <sladen> 30minutes?!
[06:25] <ogra> before i gave up, yes
[06:25] <ogra> (runnong quemu on ppc emulating i386)
[06:25] <sbalneav> Just trying to get my ducks in a row for Paris.  
[06:25] <ogra> take vmware then 
[06:26] <ogra> it should be reaqsonable fast
[06:36] <Keybuk> mdz: heya, got a few minutes?
[06:41] <pygi> ogra, how useful would it to be to make a small utility to generate VM machines for VMware player?
[06:41] <ogra> pygi, no idea, i'm not a vmware user
[06:42] <pygi> ogra, oki :)
[06:42] <ogra> (is the one we ship in universe now the player ?)
[06:42] <pygi> I think that player is in multiverse
[06:42] <ogra> oh, right, it is ...
[06:45] <mdz> Keybuk: sure
[06:47] <Keybuk> mdz: there's a reasonably large stack of things in dapper/unapproved at the moment -- and no way to know whether you or Kamion have actually "approved" the upload
[06:47] <Keybuk> also any accept at the moment requires a manual publisher run _and_ manually running through the buildds
[06:47] <Keybuk> could the process be updated so that infinity and I are at least cc'd so we know to do the right things?
[07:12] <bddebian> OK, what is this?  /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lQtGui_debug
[07:13] <bddebian> I'm missing libqt4-debug?
[07:13] <bddebian> Holy crap, 51Mb
[07:15] <mdz> Keybuk: yes, makes sense (more so if we had an email address for ubuntu-archive)
[07:18] <Keybuk> jdub: ^ could we get one of those ? :)  (as a mailing list: mdz, kamion, infinity, I)
[07:19] <mdz> Keybuk: <team name>@launchpad.net ought to be made to just work
[07:19] <Keybuk> mdz: then mdz@launchpad.net would work too, no? :p
[07:21] <ogra> doesnt <team name>@ubuntu.com work ?
[07:22] <ogra> (isnt that how malone handles team subscriptions to bugs ?)
[07:24] <dholbach> ogra: no, that doesn't work
[07:25] <ogra> hmm, how does malone handle it then ? internally in LP ?
[07:25] <Keybuk> mdz: until LP supports that, are you ok with a private mailing list (as with tb)
[07:25] <Keybuk> ogra: ubuntu-bugs is a mailing list
[07:26] <ogra> Keybuk, i'm talking about the teams like edubuntu-bugs etc
[07:26] <ogra> that seems to work via malone without probs
[07:26] <mdz> Keybuk: I don't specifically object, but it gets awkward to maintain so many small lists for teams
[07:26] <Keybuk> oh, the bug subscription stuff just iterates the team, iirc
[07:27] <Keybuk> mdz: the alternative is that we deal with it by asking for bugs to be subscribed and not via e-mail
[07:41] <sbartleylinux> mjg59: ping
[07:52] <bddebian>  /usr/lib/libQtGui_debug.so.4  has no symlink libQtGui_debug.so
[07:53] <Keybuk> bddebian: do you have the -dev installed?
[07:53] <bddebian> Oh, -debug-dev.. Sheesh
[07:54] <bddebian> Oh, like 51Mb for libqt4-debug wasn't enough? :-)
[07:55] <bddebian> bitchin', thanks Keybuk
[08:19] <Riddell> Keybuk: is there a spec for network-manager plans in edgy?
[08:47] <highvoltage> if i create an ubuntu dvd image, do i need to do anything different, as apposed to a cd?
[08:47] <highvoltage> d-i doesn't seem to find the dvd :/
[08:50] <msikma> Maybe your BIOS can't read DVDs from startup, while it can read CDs. You should ask at #ubuntu, though, this is a channel for development and not for support.
[08:50] <highvoltage> msikma: ok.
[09:02] <dholbach> TheMuso: hello! do you happen to know what lsr is?
[09:03] <dholbach> TheMuso: I saw the release announce on gnome's ftp-release list today and somebody complained about it on ubuntu-accessibility@ - if it's a11y stuff - we maybe should look into getting it into edgy :-)
[09:09] <Burgwork> dholbach, a linux screen reader, written in python, developed by IBM
[09:09] <Burgwork> dholbach, upstream seems to liek Orca, another screen reader, written in python, developed by SUN
[09:09] <Burgwork> dholbach, don't ask
[09:09] <dholbach> ah, now I remember
[09:09] <dholbach> well funny both turn up on ftp-release list then
[09:09] <dholbach> :)
[09:11] <jdub> dholbach: i've been talking to the LSR folks to see what we can do about the mess - unfortunately, licensing is involved
[09:11] <Burgwork> jdub, LSR is CPL, no?
[09:11] <jdub> yes
[09:45] <Keybuk> Riddell: back
[09:45] <Keybuk> quick trip to Wal-Mart there
[09:45] <Keybuk> Riddell: there are no plans for network-manager in edgy
[09:45] <Keybuk> I would really like to just "sit back and wait"
[09:47] <mjg59> neuralis: Hi?
[09:47] <mjg59> sbartleylinux: Hi?
[09:47] <sbartleylinux> mjg59: Hi.  Can you tell me who I would talk to about gnome-power-manager?
[09:48] <mjg59> In what respect?
[09:48] <sbartleylinux> It seems that with Dapper, it is allowing remote users the selection of Hibernate on exit.  
[09:48] <mjg59> That's not gnome-power-manager
[09:48] <sbartleylinux> hm
[09:49] <mjg59> That's gnome-session
[09:49] <mjg59> It shouldn't actually /work/ in any case
[09:49] <sbartleylinux> but it does.:)
[09:50] <sbartleylinux> I spoke w/ lmanul this morning and was told that gnome-session is relying on gnome-power-manager now for this.
[09:51] <sbartleylinux> I know that I can make it so on a per user basis, with gconf-editor, this can be turned off.  What I want though is for hibernate to be handled in the same way that restart and shutdown are.
[09:51] <Riddell> Keybuk: ok, thanks
[09:51] <sbartleylinux> If the user is remote, it will simply not appear.
[09:51] <mjg59> sbartleylinux: So please file a bug
[09:51] <Keybuk> Riddell: my vague hope is that it'll enter Debian unstable (if it hasn't already), we'll sync up and have identical (or near enough) packages, and then we can just keep track that way
[09:51] <Keybuk> it's not something I think we should put any additional effort into, at least, not until it works better
[09:52] <sbartleylinux> ok, but against which package?  I am unsure if it is truly gnome-session or g-p-m and dont know who to talk to and verify it.
[09:52] <mjg59> sbartleylinux: I believe it to be gnome-session (as mentioned above)
[09:53] <sbartleylinux> ok.  I will start there.  thx.
[09:53] <mjg59> If that's wrong, it'll just be reassigned to the correct place
[09:53] <neuralis> mjg59: hi. i can bring your pcb to paris with me. would you prefer that, or have it shipped to the address you gave?
[09:53] <sbartleylinux> k. thx.
[09:53] <mjg59> neuralis: I'm not going to be in paris, I'm afraid
[09:54] <neuralis> mjg59: ah, okay. we'll get it mailed out, then.
[09:54] <mjg59> neuralis: Thanks!
[09:54] <neuralis> sure thing.
[09:54] <mjg59> sbartleylinux: Anyway, if the hibernate button does appear remotely and works, that's certainly a bug
[09:55] <mjg59> It's not meant to work unless you logged in at the console
[09:55] <sbartleylinux> k. that is what I thought.  Filing bug now. thx.
[09:55] <Keybuk> doko, Riddell: the ubuntu5 is a *bad* qt-x11-free, yes?
[09:56] <Riddell> Keybuk: yes
[09:56] <Keybuk> ok, rejected
[09:56] <Keybuk> slomo: ping
[09:57] <slomo> Keybuk: pong
[09:57] <Keybuk> slomo: who approved your upload of xine-lib?
[09:58] <slomo> Keybuk: mdz ~1 week ago... i already thought it disappeared ;) but now i have to upload a new version anyway because of the security update that pitti uploaded some days ago
[09:58] <Keybuk> ok, shall I reject this one then?
[09:59] <slomo> yes, i'll upload one with a correct version number later today or tomorrow... which version would that be btw? the security update is 1.1.1+ubuntu2-7.1... -7.2?
[09:59] <Keybuk> 7.2 would work
[10:00] <slomo> ok
[10:02] <sbartleylinux> mjg59: Bug #49503 
[10:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49503 in gnome-session "Hibernate button being displayed and functions on remote connections" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49503
[10:12] <Riddell> mjg59: /msg
[10:27] <zul> heylo
[10:33] <drt> hello! i hope this is the right channel to ask a question with regard to ubuntu-dapper-server and ubuntu-dapper-desktop. 
[10:34] <drt> ubuntu-dapper-desktop has flex (lexical analyser) that i can install using apt-get. 
[10:34] <drt> but flex is not available in ubuntu-dapper-server???
[10:37] <crimsun_> drt: flex is in main and available via $apt
[10:38] <drt> crimsun_, sorry...can you elaborate a little?
[10:38] <crimsun_> drt: given a viable Internet connection, you should be able to ``sudo apt-get install flex''
[10:39] <crimsun_> drt: your /etc/apt/sources.list needs to have the active (uncommented) line: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper main restricted
[10:40] <crimsun_> drt: if you need further assistance, I'm happy to assist you in #ubuntu
[10:40] <drt> crimsun_: thank you. i will join #ubuntu
[10:48] <vdepizzol> what do you think about this bountie in launchpad? https://launchpad.net/bounties/filechooser-thumbnails
[11:04] <zyga> whoo :)
[11:04] <zyga> mark is such a great guy :)
[11:04] <Burgwork> zyga, oh?
[11:05] <zyga> Burgwork: the meeting was so not linux-fanboy-like
[11:06] <Burgwork> zyga, which meeting?
[11:08] <zyga> Burgwork: the one in Poland, today
[11:08] <zyga> 7pm local time
[11:09] <zyga> +0200 UTC
[11:09] <Burgwork> ah, cool
[11:22] <zyga> hey pitti :)
[11:22] <pitti> hi zyga 
[11:23] <zyga> how are you?
[11:25] <zyga> I've seen mark today :)
[11:29] <pitti_> bah, NetworkManager and dhclient fighting each other