[08:11] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia 
[08:11] <nixternal> its past his bedtime ;)
[08:11] <nixternal> whats up Madpilot
[08:11] <Burgundavia> hey Madpilot
[08:11] <Madpilot> not much
[08:11] <Madpilot> just watching the weather to see if I'm going to get a flight in tomorrow :)
[08:12] <nixternal> what do you fly?
[08:12] <Madpilot> tomorrow, a Cessna 172, weather permitting
[08:12] <nixternal> nice
[08:12] <Madpilot> I've got my Private Pilot's License
[08:12] <nixternal> where ya plannin' on flyin' too?
[08:13] <Burgundavia> I am flying to Ottawa, for work
[08:13] <Madpilot> up the coast about 50nm - dropping some friends of the family off
[08:13] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, CLA conf, right?
[08:13] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:14] <Madpilot> have fun. Don't let all those library types drink you under the table 
[08:14] <nixternal> hahah
[08:14] <Burgundavia> there is a pub crawl on Thursday. I intend to be on it
[08:16] <Madpilot> Librarians & vendors on a bender
[08:18] <Madpilot> don't wreck too much of downtown Ottawa, OK? ;)
[08:18] <jsgotangco> hmm does anyone know the type of plug used in france
[08:18] <Plug> Me!
[08:18] <Plug> ;)
[08:19] <Plug> It's a two-round pin European plug
[08:19] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:19] <Madpilot> jsgotangco, you going to Paris, then?
[08:19] <jsgotangco> dunno yet will know later but im going to the electrical shop just in case
[08:19] <Plug> (not the same as the UK)
[08:19] <Plug> I assume there are four major types in the world
[08:20] <Plug> as I have a three-pack that goes from NZ/AU/HK/Singapore etc to the other three.
[08:22] <jsgotangco> that's weird its Type E with a ground pin
[08:22] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: two prong european
[08:22] <jsgotangco> but a Type C will do
[08:23] <Burgundavia> there is a great chart on Wikipedia
[08:23] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
[08:23] <jsgotangco> thanks i will add this to del.icio.us
[08:24] <Plug> Mmmm, type I!
[08:25] <Plug> I like what I know. :)
[08:29] <Burgundavia> http://goran.fimaks.net/moin.cgi/LibraryGnomeOrgMockupFirst
[08:29] <Burgundavia> mdke: ^
[08:33] <jsgotangco> nice!
[08:40] <Burgundavia> mdke: edubuntu people want to use latex for their cookbook
[08:41] <jsgotangco> meh not "want" there was a suggestion
[08:41] <crimsun_> s/want/are debating/
[08:43] <Burgundavia> yes, I replied, saying their own svn repo and latex are nuts
[08:43] <Burgundavia> in a more politic manner, of course
[08:59] <ghee22> hi, anyone interested in welcome center?
[09:04] <Burgundavia> hey ghee22
[09:06] <ghee22> hey Burgundavia, there's been quite a lot of people with different ideas of what the welcome center should be
[09:07] <ghee22> it's getting to be overwhelming.  that's why i split the project into 2.  the slightest consensus is that the welcome center should explain the very basics of ubuntu, which is already done in your doc files
[09:09] <ghee22> Which leaves me with a confused look on my face.  Why can't people find the help files?  I'm not sure, i found them with no problem.  I don't see recreating them as a solution.
[09:09] <Madpilot> ghee22, nobody ever reads the documentation, ever. This isn't just Ubuntu's problem. (...only half-joking...)
[09:09] <Burgundavia> ghee22: no, content should stem from us, whether we write it or just vet community stuff is to be decided
[09:10] <Burgundavia> ghee22: as for implementation, I really just don't see the place for yet another application
[09:10] <ghee22> Burgundavia, is this sentence yours: I think all we need to do here is point the users to the documentation and other help, not rewrite it. (from the wiki content page)
[09:10] <Burgundavia> no, but I agree with it
[09:10] <Burgundavia> it is likely mdke
[09:11] <ghee22> Perhaps the welcome center can highlight the help menu.  perhaps by showing users how to get there they will not "give up" looking for it.
[09:11] <mdke> no, wasn't me
[09:12] <mdke> ghee22: hi.
[09:12] <Burgundavia> ghee22: yep. We have been considering a new start page for yelp, which might solve some of these issues
[09:12] <ghee22> hi mdke
[09:12] <Burgundavia> mdke: what is that brainstorm url again?
[09:12] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MatthewEast/HelpfulHelpVersionMinusOne
[09:12] <mdke> ghee22: I have something I wanted to say to you
[09:13] <mdke> ghee22: it's true that there have been a lot of people with different ideas about your project
[09:13] <ghee22> mdke: i'm listening
[09:13] <mdke> ghee22: don't forget however that it is _your_ project, and you and your mentor should lay out what you intend to do. Don't let individuals who randomly approach you and edit the wiki page take control
[09:14] <mdke> that's my advice
[09:14] <Burgundavia> indeed, I was thinking the same thing
[09:15] <mdke> Burgundavia: so the cookbook authors aren't planning to work in our repository?
[09:15] <Madpilot> does the newer version of MoinMoin have ACL?
[09:15] <ghee22> mdke:  that is an excellent point.  unfortunately, my mentor is extremely busy.  hence i wander.  i want to work on the same vision i initially had but i encountered a lot of friction from this chat room, the very people that provide the core content i want to display.  it's very difficult, to find out, where to go from here
[09:15] <Burgundavia> mdke: unclear
[09:15] <mdke> Madpilot: the current version has it too, but it's not enabled on the wiki
[09:16] <mdke> ghee22: I spoke to your mentor about it, he was keen to talk to you. Try and find him on irc (he's joined this channel)
[09:16] <ghee22> mdke: excellent, thank you..  i am on it right now
[09:16] <Burgundavia> sfllaw: welcome, didn't notice you
[09:19] <mdke> ghee22: his timezone is UTC-4, or similar
[09:19] <Burgundavia> mdke: that is correct
[09:19] <Burgundavia> America/Montreal
[09:20] <Burgundavia> damn, I am going to be within an hour or twos drive of sfllaw and I won't get to see him
[09:20] <ghee22> mdke:  thanks all, i'll be on here from now on.. 
[09:21] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, get him to come to Ottawa then - have an Ubuntu micro-conf. during CLA :)
[09:21] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: right...
[09:23] <Burgundavia> anyway, I have to sleep
[09:23] <Burgundavia> night all
[03:25] <robotgeek> mdke: weird, i am not sure if he used the correct version of the program.
[03:30] <mdke> robotgeek: potentially an earlier version
[03:30] <jsgotangco> hey!
[03:30] <jsgotangco> mdke: i have a q
[03:30] <robotgeek> mdke: nothing from easyubuntu.freecontrib.org will cause that problem
[03:30] <mdke> robotgeek: anything linked on the forums?
[03:31] <mdke> jsgotangco: shoot
[03:31] <jsgotangco> mdke: how many languages there in italy
[03:31] <jsgotangco> or is it just one "italian"
[03:31] <jsgotangco> and the rest dialects (if they exist?)
[03:32] <mdke> broadly, one official language. There are lots of dialects, which vary enormously, and a couple of them have recognition as separate languages, but the common language is italian
[03:32] <robotgeek> mdke: all links from forums point to easyubuntu.freecontrib.org, there was sticky which pointed to the older version, but i got that fixed last week
[03:32] <mdke> sardinian and friulian are the two which are considered separate languages in their own right, iirc
[03:33] <robotgeek> mdke: plus, easyubuntu will fail if your sources.list doesnt match your system. safety feature
[03:33] <mdke> jsgotangco: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friulian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinian_language
[03:34] <mdke> robotgeek: hmm, something went badly wrong in this case
[03:34] <jsgotangco> mdke: but they have major elements that make up italian right?
[03:35] <jsgotangco> say Sardinian is basically 80% italian or what
[03:35] <mdke> jsgotangco: not really. vaguely related but I can't understand them at all
[03:35] <mdke> nor can most italians
[03:35] <jsgotangco> and does Sardinian/Friulian have their own ISO language codes?
[03:35] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[03:35] <mdke> yes, see those wiki pages
[03:35] <jsgotangco> but there are translation efforts there?
[03:36] <mdke> not that I am aware of
[03:36] <mdke> maybe
[03:36] <mdke> none of the other italian dialects have iso codes, I don't think
[03:37] <jsgotangco> ok i have this problem atm here in our language
[03:37] <mdke> yeah, I read about it on #lp
[03:38] <jsgotangco> FIL is the official lang but TL consists of majority of FIL
[03:38] <jsgotangco> but there are no FIL efforts since its relatively new
[03:38] <jsgotangco> my evil solution is not approve the team at all because its only one person for now
[03:39] <mdke> i think jordi will approve the team if the language has iso recognition
[03:40] <mdke> did you contact the guy and invite him to contribute to tl? maybe its just a misunderstanding
[03:40] <jsgotangco> im not so keen on that it'll just mix up future move to FIL when most of TL can be easily moved
[03:40] <jsgotangco> he's not responding *yet*
[03:40] <jsgotangco> and responded privately to jordi
[03:40] <jsgotangco> with a *technical* reason rather than *practical*
[03:41] <jsgotangco> hence i asked if there is some sort of situation in italy or something
[03:41] <jsgotangco> i could completely understand Catalan
[03:41] <jsgotangco> and Spanish situation
[03:41] <jsgotangco> it is rather interesting really
[03:42] <mdke> yeah
[03:42] <jsgotangco> when Google was localised the same problem arose and there was no compromise because the arguments are academic instead of practical
[03:44] <jsgotangco> my evil point of view is that the guy just became ecstatic seeing Kubuntu and the power to trnaslate and began translating a few days ago of short strings in dapper
[03:44] <mdke> well, IMHO if everyone understands the same language, that should be the default fallback. If people want to translate dialects, they should be able to, but it should always fallback to the language everyone understands
[03:44] <jsgotangco> well yes i was thinking of having FIL as fallback since it can be switched in the future
[03:44] <jsgotangco> but i'll have to consult Debian-TL
[03:50] <jsgotangco> well jordi didn't approve it yet that's why he send an email to me anyhow
[03:50] <mgalvin> someone suggested renaming UWN to the "Ubuntu Weekly Newt"
[03:50] <jsgotangco> brb
[03:51] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:51] <mgalvin> :)
[04:59] <jsgotangco> good night
[07:13] <jjesse> what is the link for web svn?
[07:18] <LaserJock> Burgwork: boy, you might have opend a big can of Edubuntu worms :-)
[07:18] <jjesse> mmmm worms
[07:18] <jjesse> hwo so LaserJock?
[07:19] <LaserJock> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-June/001555.html
[07:20] <LaserJock> hehe
[07:20] <mgalvin> *sigh*
[07:20] <mgalvin> :)
[07:21] <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure they don't want to use the doc team repo
[07:22] <jjesse> wow someone sure needed some coffee when he wrote the post :)
[07:23] <LaserJock> yeah, mr. grumpy
[07:26] <LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
[07:26] <Madpilot> hi LaserJock 
[07:26] <Madpilot> blasted weather - was supposed to go flying this morning :|
[07:27] <LaserJock> bummer
[07:28] <Madpilot> I was supposed to be flying some friends of the family over to the mainland - 30min flight, now they're in for a 4+hr bus & ferry ride...
[07:29] <LaserJock> ughh
[07:29] <Madpilot> living on an island has some drawbacks, sometimes :)
[07:30] <jjesse> what is the link for browsng the svn archive through the web?
[07:32] <LaserJock> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[07:40] <LaserJock> yes! bugs.ubuntu.com goes to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs/
[07:41] <jjesse> nice
[07:41] <LaserJock> that will be nice to change in the documentation
[07:42] <jjesse> instead of lunahcpad.net/distros.ubuntu/+bugs?
[07:42] <Madpilot> lunchpad?
[07:43] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:43] <LaserJock> it has always bugged me (pun intended) that there was no simple URL to go to Ubuntu bugs
[07:44] <LaserJock> we always say, "go to launchpad" but if you go to launchpad.net it takes you a while to get to the bugs
[07:44] <Madpilot> it's also too easy to go to the wrong bug section in LP from the frontpage
[07:45] <LaserJock> you might get LP bugs, or something
[07:45] <LaserJock> and Debian has bugs.debian.org
[07:45] <LaserJock> so it seems logical to use bugs.ubuntu.com
[08:10] <mdke> LaserJock: cbx33 (is that his nick?) was keen on using the docteam repo, no?
[08:10] <LaserJock> yeah, but he and I seem to be the only doc team people keen on it
[08:10] <LaserJock> or Edubuntu people rather
[08:10] <LaserJock> we'll see
[08:11] <mdke> LaserJock: who are the other people actually contributing words to it?
[08:11] <LaserJock> pygi and HedgeMage are sort of the leaders
[08:11] <LaserJock> spacey, bluekuja are also contributing I think
[08:12] <LaserJock> they have an LP team
[08:12] <mdke> yeah, they have a team, but I mean, are they actually working on the content?
[08:12] <mdke> everyone has a LP team nowadays :)
[08:13] <LaserJock> yeah, I think all of those people contributed to the Dapper version
[08:13] <LaserJock> I think there might be a couple others for Edgy based on the meeting yesterday
[08:13] <mdke> ok. I wasn't aware there was a dapper version
[08:14] <LaserJock> heh, yeah
[08:14] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters
[08:15] <LaserJock> but there is an older Edubuntu cookbook on the wiki too
[08:15] <LaserJock> it gets confusing
[08:19] <mdke> yeah, it does a bit
[08:20] <LaserJock> if they did want to use the doc team repo it would be cool
[08:20] <crimsun_> I'm pretty surprised LaTeX surfaced as an option
[08:20] <LaserJock> heh
[08:21] <LaserJock> well, people had used it before
[08:21] <LaserJock> and nobody knew docbook
[08:21] <mdke> well, that's the beauty of this moin -> docbook tool
[08:21] <LaserJock> and they were wanting to get a publisher and everything
[08:21] <mdke> meh
[08:21] <LaserJock> they totally don't want moin
[08:22] <mdke> LaserJock: but, it's in Moin now
[08:22] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:22] <LaserJock> and they hated it :-)
[08:22] <mdke> meh
[08:22] <LaserJock> for trying to put together a doc
[08:22] <LaserJock> it wasn't anything against moin in general
[08:22] <mdke> this project has too much philosophising about tools and processes before actually focusing on getting some results together
[08:23] <mdke> it's been like 18 months of refocusing on different ways of doing the same thing
[08:23] <LaserJock> I tried ...
[08:23] <mdke> i mean, talking about publishers, without really any results...
[08:24] <mdke> it's just so premature
[08:24] <LaserJock> well, they decided to shoot for lulu.com instead ;-)
[08:24] <LaserJock> after some discussion
[08:25] <LaserJock> anyway, I hope they approach the doc team about it but I sort of doubt it
[08:26] <mdke> meh
[08:26] <mdke> and after all that effort making nice edubuntu stylings too
[08:26] <LaserJock> well, I think cbx33, mhz, jerome, and I will used edubuntu/ :-)
[08:27] <crimsun_> ok, what was that supposed to say?
[08:27] <LaserJock> s/used/use/
[08:27] <crimsun_> ah
[08:27] <LaserJock> sorry
[08:28] <LaserJock> I'm still trying to wake up
[08:28] <crimsun_> np, my brain's slow this afternoon
[09:44] <Exdaix> Hey guys
[09:44] <LaserJock> hi Exdaix 
[09:46] <jjesse> afternoon Exdaix
[09:53] <Exdaix> oops sorry about the delay...   co-workers nabbed me for a sec
[09:54] <Exdaix> Im interested in getting involved int he docs project...  I've read most of the stuff on wiki and browsed through help.ubuntu and doc.ubuntu...   what is your suggestions on getting my feet wet so to say?
[09:54] <jjesse> right now we are sort of in a holding pattern for edgy to get started, you could join our docteam meeting this friday
[09:55] <Exdaix> yeah I saw that, can do.  Would that be the best time to do an introduction and such?
[09:55] <jjesse> sure would
[09:56] <LaserJock> Exdaix: have you checked out a copy of the svn repo?
[09:56] <Exdaix> And is there any "wysiwyg" programs or editors you guys prefer to do the docbok editing...  or just hand-coding with like gedit?
[09:56] <Exdaix> LaserJock: not yet
[09:57] <jjesse> i prefer handcoding with kate
[09:57] <LaserJock> Exdaix: gedit seems to work well, wysiwyg editors so far don't seem to be very exciting
[09:57] <LaserJock> I usually use vim though
[09:57] <Exdaix> I was tinkering with conglomerate, but it seems a bit buggy for me
[09:57] <Exdaix> where can I find the command to grab a copy of the repo
[09:58] <Exdaix> I have svn already
[09:58] <LaserJock> yeah, and our repo is complex enough that it just chokes
[09:58] <jjesse> install subversion first
[09:58] <LaserJock> Exdaix: wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
[09:58] <jjesse> grin we should have a bot to answer questions like that :)
[09:58] <LaserJock> yep
[09:58] <LaserJock> I need one in -motu too
[09:58] <Exdaix> are there that many people who ask?   I figured the poor doc people were starving for help :)
[09:59] <jjesse> no we are just lazy
[09:59] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:59] <Exdaix> lol
[09:59] <LaserJock> and we can't remember how to do it ourselves ;-)
[09:59] <jjesse> that's usually my problem
[09:59] <Exdaix> what a good confidence builder hah
[10:02] <Exdaix>  ok grabbing now
[10:04] <Exdaix> *runs off into ubuntu-doc wonderland and gets lost*
[10:04] <jjesse> good luck, bring breadcrumbs
[10:23] <mgalvin> jjesse: lol
[10:26] <jjesse> glad you enjoyed it
[10:26] <jjesse> ok works over for the day :)