[12:03] <Spec[x] > depends if you want multiple debs or not
[12:03] <ryanakca> meaning...
[12:04] <LaserJock> ryanakca: I already told you :-)
[12:04] <ryanakca> its 1 program... so would they be diferent copies?
[12:04] <LaserJock> if you want to create more than 1 .deb out of a source package
[12:04] <ryanakca> LaserJock: you did?
[12:04] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:04] <LaserJock> but you might have missed it
[12:04] <ryanakca> ok, so I take it single binary
[12:05] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:05] <ryanakca> oh, hehe oops
[12:05] <ryanakca> I missed it, yeah
[12:05] <LaserJock> but for instance, you could have like -doc, -dbg, -dev packages that are also built from the same source
[12:06] <LaserJock> that is why there are actually quite a few less source packages than binary packages in the repo
[12:25] <ryanakca> LaserJock: oh, I see...
[01:12] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:24] <ryanakca> stuff that is checked for at ./configure... is that a build-dep or a dep? checking for IMG_LoadPNG_RW in -lSDL_image...
[01:25] <crimsun_> that's a build-dep
[01:25] <crimsun_> hint: you're making a package (i.e., compiling source in most cases) -> build-dependency
[01:26] <crimsun_> you need libsdl-image1.2-dev
[01:26] <ryanakca> kk
[01:26] <crimsun_> in debian/control:Build-Depends
[01:26] <ryanakca> yep :)
[01:26] <ajmitch> morning
[01:26] <crimsun_> 'morning, ajmitch
[01:26] <bddebian> Heya crimsun_, ajmitch
[01:28] <crimsun_> hi (again)
[01:28] <ryanakca> configure: error: Unable to find the SDL_ttf library         do I add libsdl-ttf2.0-dev or libsdl-ttf1.2-dev  to build-depends?
[01:29] <crimsun_> check the source's README/INSTALL
[01:29] <crimsun_> I'd work from most current backward
[01:29] <ryanakca> crimsun_: kindof problem... it doesn't have one of those :(
[01:29] <crimsun_> you could always check the source for what it actually #includes
[01:31] <ryanakca> *gulps*
[01:32] <crimsun_> it's just alphanumerics
[01:32] <crimsun_> no knives or bullets
[01:32] <ajmitch> often having coding knowledge is important for packaging :)
[01:32] <bluefoxicy> someone submitted nexuiz 1.2
[01:32] <bluefoxicy> 1.5 has been out and 1.6 is coming out soonish.
[01:32] <ajmitch> too cold
[01:33] <ajmitch> bluefoxicy: seen the date on the revu upload?
[01:34] <bluefoxicy> February
[01:36] <ryanakca> crimsun_: alphanumerics that give you a headache :P   seriously... I need to learn how to code... I understand the code, I just don't know HOW to code...
[01:36] <bluefoxicy> oh
[01:36] <bluefoxicy> it's sorted by number of advocates.
[01:36] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  help me figure out wtf to do with snort 2.6  :)
[01:40] <zul> cd /msg ajmitch hola
[01:40] <ajmitch> ;)
[01:40] <zul> stupid keyboard
[01:42] <LaserJock> hehe
[01:42] <crimsun_> bluefoxicy: RE: snort 2.6, it's worth checking with Javier. Check Debian 320920 in particular.
[01:42] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 320920 in snort "Subject: snort: 2.4 upgrade, prelude support" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/320920
[01:43] <ryanakca> config.status: error: cannot find input file: Makefile.in       ???
[01:43] <crimsun_> bluefoxicy: perhaps if you applied some ... pressure toward upstream RE: the licensing of the rules, that would speed things along in Debian, which can along assist Ubuntu.
[01:43] <bluefoxicy> crimsun_:  did he rewrite the whole debian/ directory?
[01:43] <bluefoxicy> crimsun_:  I'm not particularly interested in the rules; in fact I am QUITE annoyed that my last experience with Snort in Ubuntu was "SNORT DEPENDS ON SNORT-RULES KTHX!"
[01:44] <crimsun_> bluefoxicy: doubtful, but I don't package snort. I'm referring to a licensing issue which prevents the previous stable version from entering.
[01:44] <bluefoxicy> As far as I care, the rules don't need to be packaged, and snort shouldn't depend on them.  it works just find (albeit, non-operationally) without rules; and end users can easily write their own or get a registered feed and use OinkMaster (which is what I was doing, hence why I didn't like that snort forced me to install a rules package)
[01:45] <bluefoxicy> crimsun_:  is there another issue besides just the rules files?
[01:45] <crimsun_> bluefoxicy: I haven't even begun to read all of src:snort's bugs
[01:48] <bluefoxicy> crimsun_:  nods.  I think at the very least we can assume we don't need rules packaged.
[01:49] <bluefoxicy> other issues I don't have an answer for.
[01:50] <bluefoxicy> "In addition, the VRT is pleased to announce that will be maintaining a community ruleset that contains rules submitted by members of the open source community. While these rules are available as is, the VRT performs basic tests to ensure that new rules will not break Snort. These rules are distributed under the GPL and are freely available to all open source Snort users."  <-- there's always these
[01:51] <bluefoxicy> (however there are no 2.6 community rules)
[01:51] <bluefoxicy> crimsun_:  I'll check with Javier if I see him online some time.
[01:57] <ryanakca> how do you build a package that compiles with scons instead of make?
[02:01] <bddebian> s/make/scons/ ? :-)
[02:03] <NthDegree> brb
[02:04] <ryanakca> bddebian:  yeah... Secret Maryo Cronicles (a super mario immitation) builds with scons instead of make
[02:05] <bddebian> Aye.  I am saying that there is nothing that inherently requires make
[02:05] <bddebian> Several packages use xmkmf or imake for example
[02:10] <ryanakca> ???
[02:14] <ryanakca> bddebian: so what do I do?
[02:35] <bddebian> ryanakca: You build the package in rules like you would build it externally
[02:35] <ryanakca> o.O
[02:36] <ryanakca> I'm just starting to package btw... and I know... not the best beginner choice...
[02:36] <bddebian> :-)
[02:44] <ryanakca> What's better, multiple binaries or single binary... ??? I know the difference, just not which one is better
[02:45] <azeem> that depends on the type of package, really
[02:46] <ryanakca> ok, a simple kde app... single binary?
[02:46] <ryanakca> but from the looks of it, the doc is huge... so that's why I'm thinking multiple...
[02:47] <ryanakca> I'm looking at the Kastrolog candidate at the moment
[03:00] <ryanakca> what section in control would I put this http://www.paganlink.org/library/astrology/kastrolog.html     ?
[03:01] <jaldhar> science :P
[03:02] <jaldhar> ryanakca: seriously, isn't this an existing Debian package?  What section is it in now?
[03:12] <magnon> hub :)
[03:13] <ajmitch> hey magnon, hub
[03:13] <hub> hi
[03:14] <hub> I update 2 of my packages for edgy
[03:21] <bddebian> OK, git-core sucks
[03:21] <chuck_> no it doesnt
[03:22] <bddebian> Trying to debug the test scripts does :-)
[03:22] <jmg> hello all
[03:22] <bddebian> Hello jmg
[03:23] <ryanakca> jaldhar: it's in the Candidates list... so I didn't think it allready was... just a sec...
[03:25] <jmg> guys i am having some trouble with ooo, similar to this bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org2-amd64/+bug/12611 but on i386 and not resolved by reinstall..
[03:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 12611 in openoffice.org2-amd64 "Openoffice.org2 does not have menu-icons" [Medium,Rejected] 
[03:25] <ryanakca> jaldhar: nope... far from science... more like "mathematical guessing"
[03:26] <crimsun_> bddebian: my life would be dismal without git-core kthx
[03:27] <chuck_> crimsun_: have you used stgit?
[03:27] <crimsun_> chuck_: not yet
[03:27] <jaldhar> ryanakca: hmm I was pretty sure it was in debian sid.  fwiw, astrolog (the non-kde version) is in multiverse/games
[03:27] <bddebian> crimsun_!!  My love.  Wanna help me? :-)
[03:27] <crimsun_> bddebian: sure, finish my abstract
[03:28] <jaldhar> crimsun_: stuff is proven.  Other stuff is refuted.
[03:28] <jaldhar> crimsun_: done!
[03:28] <bddebian> crimsun_: OK :-)
[03:28] <ryanakca> jaldhar: I would put it in misc...
[03:28] <jmg> NO bugs?!
[03:28] <crimsun_> jaldhar: I'm pretty sure that doesn't fly, since I've tried that one :p
[03:28] <bddebian> hehe
[03:29] <bddebian> Gawd some days I really hate being stupid
[03:32] <zul> heh..
[03:35] <bddebian> Well I'm glad YOU think it's funny :-)
[03:38] <zul> i was reading the forums
[03:44] <zul> crimsun_: the snd_cs46xx failed
[03:50] <crimsun_> zul: guh?
[03:50] <crimsun_> where?
[03:55] <bddebian> Is there a clean/easy way to see reverse build-deps?
[03:55] <ajmitch> grep-dctrl
[04:00] <bddebian> grep-dctrl -F Build-dep foo ?
[04:02] <ajmitch> take a look at its manpage...
[04:02] <bddebian> I just did
[04:03] <bddebian> It's example for searching doesn't include the Packages file.  Do I need to?
[04:03] <ajmitch> have you tried it?
[04:03] <bddebian> Yes
[04:11] <Rotund> is anyone working on iFolder packages for dapper?
[04:11] <Rotund> also, is it possible to get packages into the ubuntu universe still?
[04:12] <bddebian> For Dapper, no
[04:12] <bddebian> Unless you ask for a backport I suppose
[04:13] <Rotund> Anyone doing packages for edgy?
[04:13] <bddebian> ajmitch: C'mon mand
[04:13] <bddebian> -d
[04:13] <bddebian> Rotund: Not for Universe yet, it isn't open afaik
[04:13] <bddebian> Some folks are posting to REVU
[04:13] <Rotund> iFolder is completely open.  I think GPL
[04:13] <Rotund> REVU?
[04:14] <bddebian> It's a place to post packages to be reviewed by MOTUs
[04:14] <Rotund> ahhh.
[04:16] <whiprush_> Rotund: ping Mez, he's got some work up on revu and launchpad.
[04:16] <Rotund> I don't see iFolder on REVU
[04:16] <Rotund> possible it's off the "Current Uploads" list?
[04:17] <whiprush_> he had it up there a few months ago
[04:18] <whiprush_> https://launchpad.net/products/pkg-ifolder
[04:18] <whiprush_> That was client-only iirc.
[04:20] <Rotund> ahhh.  I don't see any packages on launchpad.  is there a way to get at them?
[04:21] <Rotund> wait.  now I find it
[04:22] <Rotund> whiprush_: your repository is pretty out of date, right?
[04:22] <whiprush_> Rotund: I was just mirroring mez's packages, since he didn't have the bandwidth
[04:22] <Rotund> ahh
[04:25] <whiprush_> Rotund: it doesn't even connect to the new ifolder server stuff ...
[04:25] <whiprush_> if you're willing to package it, you would rule ... the ifolder guys are very ubuntu-friendly.
[04:25] <whiprush_> they just need someone to put the pieces together.
[04:26] <Rotund> any idea what IRC channel/server they'd be on?
[04:26] <Rotund> gimpnet?
[04:27] <whiprush_> #ifolder
[04:27] <whiprush_> yeah
[04:35] <bddebian> wb Laser
[04:35] <bddebian> Err LaserJock
[04:35] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[04:40] <LaserJock> bddebian: have you uploaded to edgy yet?
[04:40] <bddebian> Is Universe open yet?
[04:40] <LaserJock> I don't know
[04:41] <LaserJock> they're doing lots of funky things for edgy
[04:41] <Erlang> funky things?
[04:41] <LaserJock> apparently we have a -proposed repo
[04:41] <jsgotangco> like having a working toolchain?
[04:42] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: bah, who cares about a working toolchain ;-)
[04:42] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:43] <LaserJock> does anybody know how -updates works?
[04:45] <bddebian> You have to request from an archive admin afaik
[04:45] <TheMuso> We still aren't in full Edgy swing yet are we?
[04:46] <LaserJock> bddebian: so file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive?
[04:46] <jsgotangco> TheMuso: when are you flying?
[04:46] <LaserJock> bddebian: or just ping mdz
[04:46] <TheMuso> I fly out from Sydney on Saturday evening, 18:45.
[04:47] <jsgotangco> nonstop?
[04:47] <bddebian> LaserJock: TBH, I don't know the "proper" procedure, sorry
[04:47] <TheMuso> Stop in Thiland and Dubai.
[04:47] <jsgotangco> oh
[04:47] <LaserJock> bddebian: shesh, lotta good you are ;-)
[04:47] <TheMuso> I think both are changing plains, but not sure.
[04:47] <bddebian> LaserJock: None whatsoever :'-(
[04:48] <TheMuso> And I get into Paris on Sunday 13:30 local time
[04:48] <TheMuso> jsgotangco: Why?
[04:48] <jsgotangco> just wondering who i might bump into by chance
[04:48] <TheMuso> Oh ok.
[04:49] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: got your visa?
[04:49] <TheMuso> Just finalized travel insurance today actually. :)
[04:49] <LaserJock> I assume so ;-)
[04:49] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Visa?
[04:50] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: hopefully i get it today/tomorrow
[04:50] <jsgotangco> same with highvoltage
[04:50] <TheMuso> I thought it depended on where you were coming from.
[04:51] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:51] <TheMuso> jsgotangco: Have you been to any dev summits previously?
[04:51] <jsgotangco> TheMuso: UDU
[04:52] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[04:52] <TheMuso> Lucky you.
[04:53] <jsgotangco> why so?
[04:53] <TheMuso> You know what to expect. :)
[04:53] <TheMuso> And I wasn't able to get to that damn summit, even though I live in Sydney. :S
[04:54] <jsgotangco> yeah im surprised lol
[04:54] <LaserJock> TheMuso: it's my first as well
[04:54] <jsgotangco> i remember us going on a tour bus at night and the bus had tinted windows :/
[04:54] <TheMuso> heh
[04:54] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I am glad someone will be in the same boat as me then. :)
[04:55] <TheMuso> jsgotangco: What usually happens at night anyway?
[04:55] <jsgotangco> ahh depends...sometimes people get too tired and just sleep after a couple of beers
[04:55] <TheMuso> Right.
[04:56] <jsgotangco> id say it also depends on where the hotel is located
[04:57] <jsgotangco> before we're just 5 minutes away from kings cross
[04:57] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[04:58] <TheMuso> I can't wait. :)
[04:58] <jsgotangco> how much does travel insurance cost on your side?
[04:58] <LaserJock> ack, I've got so much to do before I go
[04:59] <TheMuso> jsgotangco: There is sooo much to choose from, it can get quite confusing
[05:00] <TheMuso> So it depends on how long you are going, and many other variables.
[05:00] <LaserJock> I've never heard of travel insurance before
[05:00] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Really?
[05:00] <LaserJock> no, but I've never really traveled before so..
[05:00] <jsgotangco> i never took travel insurance before either
[05:01] <TheMuso> I travelled in a big group of people back in 2002, and we had it then.
[05:01] <TheMuso> I got it because of the value of the stuff I am bringing with me. :)(
[05:02] <jsgotangco> well i took it after what happened before in montreal :/
[05:02] <TheMuso> jsgotangco: I heard about that.
[05:03] <TheMuso> I hope the hotel choice this time was considered for security as well.
[05:03] <TheMuso> LaserJock: heh
[05:04] <TheMuso> Handcuffing a notebook as well as possible hardware speech synthesis gear may not be that easy for me. :)
[05:04] <jsgotangco> wow so you're bringing the whole thing
[05:04] <jsgotangco> awesome
[05:04] <TheMuso> Notebook for sure. Not sure about the hardware speech synth yet, as I can't actually use that with my notebook at the moment.
[05:04] <TheMuso> Well I can, but not for what I would use it for.
[05:05] <TheMuso> Long story.
[05:06] <LaserJock> what does the speech synth do?
[05:06] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: yes, the pain of losing stuff is a good incentive to get insurance
[05:06] <LaserJock> other than synthesize speech ;-)
[05:06] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Thats exactly what it does.
[05:06] <TheMuso> You can make it sing if you try hard enough. :)
[05:06] <LaserJock> TheMuso: can it translate? :-)
[05:06] <TheMuso> Nope/.
[05:07] <ajmitch> what good is it then?
[05:08] <TheMuso> It is good for using with a screen reader. :)
[05:08] <TheMuso> I am using it on one of my desktops at this very minute actually.
[05:08] <LaserJock> so is it talking at you?
[05:08] <TheMuso> Yes.
[05:08] <ajmitch> scary
[05:09] <jsgotangco> sorry to ask, but are you speech impaired? or its basically an interest?
[05:09] <TheMuso> Not really.
[05:09] <ajmitch> does it do proper accents? :)
[05:09] <TheMuso> jsgotangco: I am vision impaired.
[05:09] <ajmitch> so that you can match up who's talking on irc with their accent?
[05:09] <jsgotangco> ahh
[05:09] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Unfortunately not.
[05:09] <TheMuso> It does have an US english accent however.
[05:09] <ajmitch> a shame
[05:09] <ajmitch> 'mangled'
[05:09] <TheMuso> heh
[05:09] <LaserJock> at least it has a proper accent then ;-)
[05:09] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:10] <TheMuso> Actually, I am not sure whether I would find it easy to work with a speech synth with an Aussie English accent.
[05:10] <ajmitch> heh
[05:10] <ajmitch> I'd find it hard to interpret australian as well
[05:10] <LaserJock> so can you go the other way around and "talk" into the computer?
[05:11] <TheMuso> Now with a New Zealand accent, thats another story. :)
[05:11] <ajmitch> yeah, an NZ accent would be just fine
[05:11] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Not with this speech synth, no. There is software to do that, but as far as I know for Linux it is in its infancy.
[05:11] <ajmitch> since that's how mankind was intended to speak
[05:11] <LaserJock> TheMuso: so how do you type? braile?
[05:11] <TheMuso> LaserJock: No, just an ordinary computer keyboard.
[05:12] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, whatever
[05:12] <TheMuso> I can read and write Braille however.
[05:12] <TheMuso> ajmutch: Fush and chups for dunner?
[05:12] <TheMuso> Sounds almost correct from my synth. :)
[05:12] <ajmitch> hah
[05:12] <LaserJock> TheMuso: so can you read the text at all?
[05:12] <TheMuso> LaserJock: On the screen, it depends.
[05:13] <TheMuso> I have enough sight, and also use a 21 inch monitor for other stuff as well.
[05:13] <TheMuso> I can use GNOME and FireFox when I need to for some websites that are very difficult to use speech with.
[05:13] <LaserJock> dang, that is fast then
[05:13] <TheMuso> I just turn up the font size in FireFox a couple of notches.
[05:14] <ajmitch> you'd hate the font size for my irc client then
[05:14] <TheMuso> Heh
[05:15] <TheMuso> I spend 99% of my time on the console.
[05:15] <LaserJock> I can imagine
[05:15] <LaserJock> although ASCII art might "sound" funny :-)
[05:15] <TheMuso> It cannot be spoken.
[05:16] <TheMuso> Any of you guys know whether we will also have net access from our rooms as well as in the conference area itself?
[05:16] <TheMuso> Or do we have to pay for that ourselves.
[05:17] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder too
[05:19] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[05:19] <LaserJock> bah, do any of you use the "Connect to server" thing in Gnome?
[05:19] <Hobbsee> morning bddebian :)
[05:19] <Hobbsee> what's gnome? :P
[05:19] <Hobbsee> i havent used it in kde though
[05:20] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Yes.
[05:21] <Erlang> Hobbsee uses KDE..... mmmmmm
[05:21] <Hobbsee> yes
[05:21] <bddebian> Hobbsee: ;-P
[05:21] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:21] <LaserJock> TheMuso: is it possible to save the info?
[05:21] <LaserJock> TheMuso: everytime I unmount it I have to put in all the info over again
[05:21] <TheMuso> All I do is create the connections, and levae their icons on the desktop if I know I will need them for an extended period of time.
[05:22] <TheMuso> Well don't unmount it. Nothing gets connected to/affected if you just leave it mounted. It is all done by the gnome-vfs layer AFAIK.
[05:22] <LaserJock> TheMuso: oh, ok
[05:22] <LaserJock> TheMuso: I thought maybe it would leave an ssh connection open or something, I'll have to test it
[05:23] <TheMuso> I dunno. But I know it seems fine for FTP stuff.
[05:23] <Hobbsee> Erlang: yes, i'm one of those very scary people.
[05:23] <Erlang> Hobbsee: that use KDE, or that use Emacs?
[05:24] <Hobbsee> Erlang: that use kde
[05:24] <Erlang> oh
[05:24] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee. How goes the world of Uni?
[05:24] <Erlang> that's not so scrary.
[05:24] <Erlang> I use KDE too.
[05:24] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: it goes good, but my first exam is on thursday
[05:24] <bddebian> No, Emacs is scary :-)
[05:24] <Erlang> Yeah, Emacs makes me uberscary.
[05:24] <Hobbsee> that it is
[05:25] <TheMuso> Emacs is scary, and so are Emacs. :)
[05:26] <Erlang> I've renewed with the look of Visual Studio today, and i must admit I don't miss all that bling.  But now I realise I'm off-topic so I'll shut.
[05:26] <LaserJock> Emacs is kinda like that Matrix stuff
[05:26] <Erlang> Is there a #ubuntu-off-topic-for-developers channel?
[05:26] <bddebian> Say what you want, Visual Studio has some nice stuff
[05:27] <LaserJock> Erlang: I though that was -motu :-)
[05:27] <LaserJock> what is Visual Studio for?
[05:27] <Erlang> LaserJock: Making the boss $
[05:27] <bddebian> Heh
[05:28] <bddebian> LaserJock: MS development
[05:28] <LaserJock> what language does it use?
[05:28] <Erlang> C#, VB.NET, C++(.NET)
[05:28] <bddebian> C, C++, C#, ASP, VB
[05:29] <LaserJock> wow, but no Python? ;-)
[05:29] <Erlang> LaserJock: ActivePython can be plugged into it and it's pretty nice admitedly
[05:29] <bddebian> Shockingly no ;-P
[05:29] <Erlang> or is it Visual Python... in all cases, it's available from ActiveState.
[05:33] <LaserJock> I've never been impressed with how hard it was to program on Windows
[05:34] <LaserJock> everything seems to cost so much
[05:34] <Hobbsee> Erlang: that's this one :P
[05:34] <bddebian> How hard?  It's very easy, which is part of the problem I suppose :-)
[05:35] <Erlang> bddebian: bah, you've never made a plugin for Outlook I bet.
[05:35] <bddebian> Nah, I've mostly done some ASP stuff and a little VB
[05:35] <LaserJock> bddebian: no, I mean to get compilers and stuff set up
[05:36] <bddebian> ah
[05:37] <LaserJock> I remember when I was younger I wanted to learn C but I had a heck of a time finding a C compiler for Windows
[05:37] <LaserJock> that was something that really got me going on Linux
[05:37] <bddebian> Gah, Borland has been around Forever :-)
[05:37] <LaserJock> I remeber downloading 11 floppy disks to get Debian on my old 386 because it had gcc on it
[05:37] <Erlang> The guy that works on Windows at work, with Visual Studio and all has the most trouble.  The other people use plain ol' Emacs and we have no blocker.
[05:38] <LaserJock> and then I never learned C because I had mor fun farting around in Linux :-)
[05:39] <LaserJock> I guess I was never meant to be a programmer ;-)
[05:40] <bddebian> Me either :'-(
[05:40] <crimsun_> well duh, deities don't have to program
[05:40] <bddebian> Gee thanks crimsun_, you always know how to make me feel "better"
[05:40] <TheMuso> bddebian: You are just very modist.
[05:41] <crimsun_> bddebian: blame google, dude. They cached your wiki page. :p
[05:41] <bddebian> LaserJock: Heh
[05:41] <crimsun_> besides, I think my brown paper bag bugs are holding their own tonight :(
[05:42] <bddebian> brown paper bag bugs?
[05:42] <crimsun_> mistakes that are glaringly obvious
[05:42] <ajmitch> we all make them
[05:42] <crimsun_> true
[05:42] <Hobbsee> heya ajmitch
[05:43] <ajmitch> hello
[05:43] <bddebian> Nah, if you don't do anything, you don't make mistakes :)
[05:43] <Hobbsee> bleh.  i dont want to be reminded of glaringly obvious mistakes...i wonder if the floor ever did get cleaned.
[05:43] <TheMuso> heh
[05:43] <ajmitch> bddebian: must be why I don't make many
[05:43] <bddebian> heh
[05:43] <TheMuso> We are only human after all.
[05:43] <bddebian> ajmitch: Nah, it's cause you are so damn good :-)
[05:45] <ajmitch> don't I wish..
[05:50] <Hobbsee> bug 39315
[05:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39315 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Keyboard random repeat " [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39315
[06:06] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: oh "meany", tough words. I'm sure he's scared ;-)
[06:07] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: hehe
[06:07] <bddebian> heh
[06:08] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I would think https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+changelog would say
[06:08] <crimsun_> except note the source package.
[06:09] <Hobbsee> oh cool - hadnt seen that
[06:09] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: when it doubt, just start adding +<foo> on the end of LP URLs ;-)
[06:10] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:12] <ajmitch> poor BenC
[06:12] <ajmitch> getting picked on from all corners
[06:13] <crimsun_> meany girls.
[06:14] <LaserJock> yeah, definately
[06:16] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if it is bad that I'm making 3 bzr branches of the same thing on 3 different computers
[06:16] <ajmitch> yes
[06:17] <ajmitch> you could make a checkout or bound branch instead
[06:17] <ajmitch> otherwise it becomes more interesting trying to keep them merged
[06:17] <LaserJock> yeah, right now it's not bad but I was thinking that in the future it might get messy
[06:18] <LaserJock> oh whatever Hobbsee, you know we love you :-)
[06:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: is that good or bad?
[06:18] <LaserJock> good
[06:18] <LaserJock> at least I thought so
[06:18] <bddebian> :-)
[06:18] <Hobbsee> right.
[06:19] <crimsun_> who's back?
[06:19] <crimsun_> :p
[06:19] <LaserJock> doh
[06:19] <bddebian> :'-(
[06:22] <LaserJock> frisbee?
[06:22] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: large object, intended to hit him hard :P
[06:22] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: you dont have frisbee's where you are?
[06:22] <LaserJock> yeah, but I'd have gone for a hammer or pitchfork or something real ;-)
[06:23] <crimsun_> well I suppose having frisbees thrown at me is better than being burned alive or trampled
[06:23] <bddebian> heh
[06:23] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: really you should have tossed all the KDE bugs his direction ;-)
[06:23] <crimsun_> dang, that's harsh.
[06:24] <bddebian> KDE has bugs?
[06:24] <Hobbsee> crimsun_: no, being burned alive is left for others who anger me.
[06:24] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: hehe
[06:24] <Hobbsee> bddebian: heh, unfortunately, yes.
[06:25] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: he already gets all the audio ones from kde :P
[06:25] <LaserJock> what? KDE has sound? woah !:-)
[06:25] <Hobbsee> hehe.  well, it should :P
[06:25] <Hobbsee> most of the time, it does
[06:26] <bddebian> haha
[06:27] <LaserJock> what's the best intro to Python doc for non-programmers?
[06:27] <ajmitch> diveintopython?
[06:28] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i seem to have this on my favorites list, but i've never looked at it http://docs.python.org/tut/
[06:28] <bddebian> Python Cookbook?
[06:29] <LaserJock> k, k, k
[06:30] <bddebian> OK, time for this old man to go to bed.  Gnight folks.
[06:30] <LaserJock> cya bddebian
[06:30] <crimsun_> 'night, bddebian
[06:30] <ajmitch> night old fella
[06:30] <bddebian> heh
[06:51] <LaserJock> boy, the party died when the diety left
[06:51] <LaserJock> either that or we all got back to work
[06:51] <Hobbsee> nah...
[06:51] <Hobbsee> we should be doign work, but arent :P
[06:51] <Hobbsee> anywya, who gave hiim permission to go to bed?
[06:51] <Hobbsee> (everyone please excuse my bad typing - fingers are very cold_
[06:51] <Hobbsee> )
[06:53] <LaserJock> yikes, this Ubuntu Developer's Reference is going to take some work
[06:53] <ajmitch> yep :)
[06:53] <ajmitch> that's why you've got Hobbsee to help out
[06:53] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: say what?
[06:53] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes, updated documentatoin would be good
[06:54] <TheMuso> heh
[06:54] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: please port http://www.us.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ to Ubuntu send ASAP, kthxby :-)
[06:54] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: muhahaha
[06:54] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Surely a few minutes of lots of typing will warm them up. :)
[06:54] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: eah, if you want to fix the typos
[06:54] <TheMuso> Nah. I understand what you are talking about.
[06:55] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: get writing :P
[06:55] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: no I delegated it to you :-)
[06:55] <Hobbsee> now that would be good to have ported to ubuntu...
[06:56] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: haha.  you're the documentation person - i just do nothing apart from order everynoe else around :D
[06:56] <LaserJock> I'm not a documentation person, I just can't keep my mouth shut :-)
[06:57] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Sure. How did you earn your spot on the Kubuntu community council then? :)
[06:57] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: by various ways and means :P
[06:58] <TheMuso> hahaha
[06:58] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: you do good documentatino - i keep pointing out your packaging guide work
[06:58] <LaserJock> yeah? sweet
[06:58] <LaserJock> I hope people find it useful
[06:59] <LaserJock> a lot of people contributed
[06:59] <jsgotangco> it sucks!
[06:59] <jsgotangco> Dapper Drake i mean
[06:59] <jsgotangco> hehe
[06:59] <LaserJock> :'(
[06:59] <jsgotangco> heh! not the packaging guide!
[06:59] <TheMuso> hehe
[07:00] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: everyone knows dapper sucks
[07:00] <LaserJock> yeah, yeah, whatever. I know you mean the PG jsgotangco ;-)
[07:00] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: well, i do :)
[07:01] <LaserJock> I'm really going to need lots of -motu help for Edgy
[07:02] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Why? You have been doing great work.
[07:02] <TheMuso> And you seem to know what you are doing.
[07:02] <LaserJock> mwuahahahaha
[07:02] <LaserJock> that's a laugh
[07:02] <TheMuso> hehehe
[07:02] <Hobbsee> :P
[07:03] <LaserJock> I started the packaging guide because I didn't know how to package :-)
[07:03] <LaserJock> now I kinda know
[07:03] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[07:03] <LaserJock> but I have the Developer's Reference to do now, as well as MOTU work (and Edubuntu stuff)
[07:04] <LaserJock> so if the MOTU community can help with the PG it would help a lot
[07:04] <jsgotangco> let's grok the developer's reference in paris
[07:04] <LaserJock> heh, yeah. I plan on picking Ian's brain
[07:05] <TheMuso> jsgotangco: What noteworthy contributions have you, and are you still making to the community?
[07:06] <jsgotangco> well kidding aside, i mostly do some small stuff on gnome app install
[07:06] <jsgotangco> good morning dholbach
[07:07] <ajmitch> dholbach!!
[07:07] <Hobbsee> hey dholbach
[07:07] <dholbach> heya jsgotangco, hey ajmitch, hey Hobbsee - good morning motu world
[07:07] <LaserJock> dholbach!!!
[07:07] <jsgotangco> and The OpenCD project
[07:07] <dholbach> hey LaserJock
[07:08] <TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
[07:08] <TheMuso> Got your messages.
[07:08] <dholbach> hey TheMuso
[07:08] <TheMuso> LSR is a bit of an uncertain bundle as far as I am concerned.
[07:08] <dholbach> I see.
[07:26] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: it seems that the chat has been killed again!  shameful!
[07:26] <LaserJock> wasn't me, honest
[07:27] <Hobbsee> sure sure...
[07:38] <TheMuso> Does the packaging guide encourage the use of dh-make? Or are we to do things differently now/
[07:39] <crimsun_> it's method-agnostic afaict
[07:39] <TheMuso> Ok.
[07:40] <TheMuso> heh
[07:40] <TheMuso> License would be useful it it supported CPL. :)
[07:41] <dholbach> oh well - there's always one death you have to die :)
[07:41] <ajmitch> :)
[07:41] <dholbach> drop the -c <license> then
[07:41] <LaserJock> I try to present how to do more than what to do, I learned early on there were way to many ways to do each packaging task to be exclusive to one
[07:42] <TheMuso> dholbach: You use cdbs?
[07:42] <dholbach> TheMuso: yes, wherever I can
[07:42] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: what do you use?
[07:42] <dholbach> Hobbsee: Makefiles - no debhelper :-p
[07:42] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I type stuff up
[07:42] <ajmitch> dholbach: nah, I still use cdbs :)
[07:42] <Hobbsee> oh icky.
[07:44] <LaserJock> I'm a debhelper kinda guy
[08:18] <Gloubiboulga> morning
[08:18] <crimsun_> 'morning, Gloubiboulga
[08:18] <Gloubiboulga> hi crimsun_
[08:54] <Hobbsee> bye all - off to answer a call for help.
[08:58] <crimsun_> < andrivid> I tried to upgrade glibc by compiling by hand........and now i got this error whenever i try any command.........
[08:58] <ajmitch> haha
[08:58] <ajmitch> #ubuntu?
[08:58] <crimsun_> indeed.
[08:59] <ajmitch> silly person
[09:02] <Mithrandir> crimsun_: "reinstall"
[09:02] <crimsun_> Mithrandir: yeah, that's what people are recommending
[09:02] <crimsun_> I just don't know what would drive people to recompile /glibc/
[09:03] <ajmitch> I'm impressed that they managed to do it
[09:03] <Mithrandir> it's mostly ./configure; make; make install
[09:06] <TheMuso> heh
[09:07] <dholbach> seems that ubuntu is not painful enough yet
[09:18] <zakame> hi all
[09:21] <Gloubiboulga> hi zakame
[10:11] <Toadstool> 'morning MOTUs
[10:13] <crimsun_> 'morning, Toadstool
[10:13] <sivang> morning all
[10:13] <crimsun_> 'morning, sivang
[10:13] <Toadstool> hi crimsun_ & sivang
[10:18] <sivang> hey crimsun_ , Toadstool
[10:20] <TheMuso> c
[10:20] <crimsun_> sivang: did you get the libpcap0.7 issue sorted?
[10:27] <sivang> crimsun_: yes, for some **weird** reasons, I it could not be found in the repo when I tried then
[10:27] <crimsun_> sivang: ah, ok
[10:27] <sivang> crimsun_: but a day after , I retried and it's just worked
[11:14] <kelmo> gday siretart
[11:15] <kelmo> and all ;-)
[11:26] <siretart> kelmo: I'm out for lunch in a sec. but I've seen the posting on the mailing list
[11:27] <siretart> kelmo: looks like we need to upload a new wpasupplicant package with an increased epoch :(
[11:27] <kelmo> siretart: but i am not _terribly_ worried about the situation, do you think that is absolutely required?
[11:28] <rob> bah, anyone familiar with unsermake?
[11:29] <\sh> rob: it's kde stuff and is not working as expected
[11:29] <rob> oh, so I shouldn't be worried and just wait?
[11:30] <siretart> kelmo: well, I'm not too comfortable with having the 0.5 branch in unstable/etch
[11:31] <siretart> it is still marked experimental at upstream
[11:31] <siretart> need to leave. cu later
[11:31] <kelmo> siretart: can you ping me after lunch to further discuss this?
[11:31] <siretart> yes, will do
[11:31] <kelmo> thanks
[11:31] <crimsun_> at worst, just reversion it to 0.5.3+really.0.4.9-3
[11:32] <crimsun_> avoiding epoch increments is a Good Thing
[11:34] <ajmitch> 0.5.3+we.dont.want.unstable.code.0.4.9-3
[11:52] <rob> is the edgy debootstrap working currently?
[11:55] <rob> there doesn't appear to be an edgy script in the edgy package
[11:58] <jpatrick> rob: nope
[11:58] <sladen> rob: enough people have mentioned that is isn't, that I would guess it's probably not working yet
[11:58] <rob> dam.
[11:59] <ajmitch> just dist-upgrade dapper if you're that desperate
[11:59] <rob> its a chroot
[11:59] <ajmitch> so dist-upgrade it
[12:00] <rob> it only upgrades about 5 or 6 pacakges, is that correct?
[12:00] <ajmitch> yes
[12:00] <ajmitch> not much has gone in yet
[12:00] <rob> ok, I tried that but panicked when I saw that
[12:01] <ajmitch> why?
[12:02] <rob> didn't want to break it
[12:03] <rob> not yet, anyway :)
[12:05] <sivang> rob: mostly only toolchain stuff is currently slowly dropping in
[12:05] <rob> oh, I just wanted to set up a pbuilder environment for it
[12:05] <rob> guess it can wait
[12:12] <sivang> rob: I would say that a pbuilder setup could be possible, there is there mostly dapper stuff still, just un-updated
[12:12] <sivang> (I managed to setup a chroot by dist-upgrading a dapper chroot)
[12:13] <rob> I'm only really just getting started with all this, maybe I'm just to keen :)
[12:53] <Sp4rKy> hi MOTUs
[12:57] <zul> heylo
[12:58] <Sp4rKy> hi zul
[01:00] <zul> hey Sp4rKy
[01:17] <siretart> kelmo: he, I'm back now
[01:17] <siretart> s/he/hi/
[01:17] <kelmo> re siretart
[01:17] <siretart> sorry for the delay, we needed to talk about new servers here..
[01:17] <kelmo> quite an active night tonight
[01:17] <kelmo> no problems
[01:18] <siretart> well, it seems that the 0.5 branch has slipped into sid.
[01:18] <kelmo> precisely
[01:18] <siretart> do you really want to go with the experimental branch for etch at this point?
[01:18] <kelmo> with experimental baggage
[01:18] <kelmo> siretart: well i see it like this:
[01:19] <kelmo> siretart: i would have preffered that this never happened ;-)
[01:19] <kelmo> siretart: 0.5 will be marked stable in due time, as part of the wpa_sup development cycle
[01:19] <kelmo> siretart: i bet that would happen before etch, but that is not guarenteed
[01:20] <kelmo> siretart: so, whatever happens, i am comfortable supporting it
[01:20] <kelmo> siretart: but would have preferred to keep 0.5 in experimental until upstream gave the "stable" blessing
[01:20] <kelmo> siretart: i must wear the blame here, i did not tag the changelog correctly
[01:21] <kelmo> siretart: in fact i did, but did not sync that one change
[01:21] <siretart> kelmo: where do you read that jouni plans to make the 0.5 branch stable soon?
[01:21] <kelmo> siretart: svn history reveals the passage of time
[01:21] <kelmo> siretart: please re-read my sentence
[01:21] <siretart> kelmo: no problem. mistakes happen, and I didn't get to review it. so it is half my error for not cross checking
 siretart: 0.5 will be marked stable in due time, as part of the wpa_sup development cycle
[01:21] <kelmo> "in due time"
[01:22] <kelmo> i think maybe 3 or 4 months
[01:22] <kelmo> just a guess
[01:22] <siretart> hm
[01:22] <kelmo> siretart: however, i would like everyone to be comfortable with what we have
[01:23] <kelmo> i love what 0.5 series offers
[01:23] <kelmo> i bet pkg-utopia would like it too
[01:23] <siretart> the current wpasupplicant package in unstable breaks wpa on madwifi-old systems
[01:23] <kelmo> and network-manager
[01:23] <siretart> I'm not comfortable with that at all
[01:23] <kelmo> siretart: pkg-madwifi (ie ME) has reacted to that
[01:24] <kelmo> and lool
[01:24] <kelmo> (Loic)
[01:24] <pygi> siretart, we are completely to switch to -ng with edgy I think
[01:25] <kelmo> exactly
[01:25] <kelmo> we (upstream madwifi) also don't support madwifi-old
[01:25] <siretart> pygi: yes. I read something like that between the lines in #ubuntu-devel
[01:25] <kelmo> so i can live with that
[01:25] <pygi> kelmo, but to be honest, -ng is still higly experimental
[01:25] <siretart> ok. so you suggest dropping madwifi-old support altogether, and go with the 0.5 branch of wpasupplicant
[01:26] <kelmo> siretart: i am offering points of discussion
[01:26] <kelmo> siretart: i am not forming hard opinion
[01:26] <kelmo> nor hard suggestion
[01:26] <pygi> siretart, we need our own stabilization periods on both madwifi-ng and wpasupplicant
[01:27] <pygi> we discovered a security issue in wpasupplicant/network-manager interaction rather late in the process for dapper
[01:27] <pygi> that shouldn't happen this time
[01:27] <siretart> well, there weren't too many serious complaints/bug reports on the hostap mailinglist about the 0.5 branch, and hostap is shipping the 0.5 branch as well
[01:28] <pygi> agreed, I plan to contact upstream about n-m, too see if N-M will be out for edgy
[01:28] <siretart> hmmm
[01:28] <pygi> I kinda doubt we should support it, cause even if it will be out, it'll be late in the release cycle...
[01:28] <pygi> and considering the buggy nature of it :-/
[01:29] <siretart> kelmo: we can of course wait a week or two, and see how many angry reports we get for breaking madwifi-old, and then reconsider
[01:29] <kelmo> siretart: as madwifi maintainer, I am more than happy to support those poor souls
[01:30] <kelmo> and experience tells me that most debian people are installing madwifi-ng by hand in any case . . .
[01:30] <pygi> siretart, the point is that -ng supports much more and is better
[01:30] <kelmo> pygi: indeed ;-)
[01:30] <pygi> just not stability-wise, but that can be improved by our communication with upstream
[01:30] <kelmo> pygi: we plan to make 0.9.1 release very soon
[01:31] <kelmo> pygi: stability is definately on the agenda ;-)
[01:31] <pygi> kelmo, nice, hopefully with some improvements on that field:P
[01:31] <kelmo> scanning is also fubarred
[01:31] <kelmo> and mode changing
[01:31] <pygi> the scanning was most often problem with madwifi-old
[01:31] <pygi> even tho we backported some stuff from 0.5.x
[01:32] <pygi> (not the parts we needed to fix it tho :P)
[01:32] <kelmo> yes, raciness of the bsd stack is a curse
[01:32] <pygi> siretart, what I would suggest is rather to switch to new wpasupplicant, madwifi-ng and write our own patches for 0.6.3 of network manager
[01:32] <pygi> and perhaps, but just perhaps port some stuff from it's trunk
[01:33] <pygi> that way we get most feature & stability wise
[01:33] <siretart> pygi: for edgy, I agree with that.
[01:33] <pygi> siretart, I am talking about edgy :P
[01:34] <kelmo> siretart: i would not like to support madwifi-old anything for etch, not even in wpasupplicant, just this timing was not optimal
[01:34] <siretart> I see
[01:34] <kelmo> 2 years of supporting deprecated driver would not be easy
[01:35] <siretart> kelmo: I see the argument that madwifi-old isn't an option for etch.
[01:35] <kelmo> siretart: funny thing was, my madwifi sponsor noticed the wpasupplicant upload, and was quite angry to begin with
[01:36] <siretart> kelmo: ok. Then let's do this: provide the prepared upload as binary on alioth/the wiki, and write an explanation to our mailing list
[01:36] <siretart> kelmo: if there are users which insist on using madwifi-old, then they shall take our 0.4 wpasupplicant binary
[01:37] <siretart> if we get too many complaints, we can revert to 0.4.
[01:37] <kelmo> no problems
[01:37] <kelmo> i will add the dpatch to our source package
[01:37] <kelmo> fopr both versions
[01:37] <kelmo> and only activate one
[01:37] <kelmo> would that be okay?
[01:38] <siretart> kelmo: thats a good idea. provide both dpatches, and make a switch in debian/rules for selection of -old/-ng
[01:38] <siretart> kelmo: users can then reroll their own binaries, if they like with the switch set to -old
[01:38] <kelmo> yes
[01:40] <kelmo> siretart: hmm, do you think i should bother Kyle for one last minute upload, with the required changes?
[01:40] <siretart> we need to make a decision in <10 days, so that the 0.5 branch doesn't reach testing..
[01:40] <kelmo> siretart: and move 0.5 to trunk
[01:40] <kelmo> siretart: pending discussion
[01:41] <siretart> kelmo: we need some explanation in README.Debian, with rationale
[01:41] <kelmo> siretart: will do
[01:41] <siretart> I don't think the situation is too bad. it is unstable land anyway
[01:42] <kelmo> agreed
[01:42] <kelmo> but i feel very much responsible for it
[01:42] <siretart> kelmo: I don't have unstable at hand, is madwifi-ng actually in debian/unstable? which package is it?
[01:43] <kelmo> siretart: no, we have planned its upload to unstable just tonight
[01:43] <kelmo> siretart: sec
[01:43] <kelmo> http://madwifi.org/wiki/UserDocs/Distro/Debian
[01:44] <kelmo> explains all
[01:44] <kelmo> or pkg-madwifi homepage
[01:44] <kelmo> (yes i pinched pkg-wpa's redirect hack ;-)
[01:44] <siretart> kelmo: so it will be stuck in NEW for at least one or two weeks :(
[01:45] <kelmo> siretart: yes
[01:45] <kelmo> but this is not the end of the world
[01:45] <siretart> but will break laptops. like the one of my primary sponsor
[01:45] <kelmo> siretart: i cannot help avoid that
[01:46] <kelmo> madwifi ABI sucks
[01:46] <kelmo> bigtime
[01:46] <kelmo> madwifi-ng is in experimental
[01:46] <kelmo> btw
[01:46] <kelmo> pygi: wext support almost completely eliminates it ;-)
[01:46] <siretart> kelmo: err, if it is in experimental, and you don't add new package, it doesn't need to go through NEW
[01:47] <kelmo> siretart: we have made enough changes that it *will* be in NEW
[01:47] <kelmo> siretart: i am quite aware of this
[01:47] <kelmo> please see pkg-madwifi svn
[01:47] <siretart> kelmo: could you revert these changes, so that we have a quick version in unstable, and upload the version with the new binary packages afterwards?
[01:48] <kelmo> siretart: i too must follow my sponsors advice
[01:48] <kelmo> siretart: and I have
[01:48] <siretart> hm
[01:49] <siretart> ok. then let's include these notes to wpasupplicants README.Debian
[01:49] <kelmo> siretart: i don't have any rapid communication avenue with him either, not rapid enough to revert stuff just discussed anhour ago
[01:50] <siretart> suggest users to either use madwifi-ng from experimental, or roll madwifi-ng their own
[01:50] <siretart> or revert their package to 0.4
[01:50] <kelmo> siretart: what about my own packages?
[01:50] <kelmo> ;-)
[01:50] <siretart> err, /me confused
[01:50] <kelmo> http://madwifi.org/wiki/UserDocs/Distro/Debian/MadWifing
[01:51] <kelmo> many people have been using those for quite some time
[01:51] <siretart> or use these packages, of course
[01:51] <siretart> ok
[01:51] <kelmo> siretart: i would suggest we point to the madwifi.org wiki in our docs
[01:51] <kelmo> too
[01:52] <kelmo> that way i can make rapid changes to the avenue of support for the people effected by this change
[01:52] <siretart> kelmo: let's prepare these notes intended for README.Debian on wiki, and point to that place in the docs
[01:52] <kelmo> yep
[01:52] <siretart> I don't mind if we use madwifi.org or wiki.debian.org. the other wiki should link to the information
[01:53] <kelmo> yep, indeed
[01:53] <kelmo> but i am absolutely comfortable with madwifi wiki
[01:53] <kelmo> because i wrote it ;-)
[01:53] <siretart> ;)
[01:53] <siretart> ok
[01:54] <kelmo> siretart: thanks for your time discussing this issue
[01:54] <kelmo> very appreciated
[01:54] <siretart> then I let you prepare the notes, I continue my work. I see that I can finish earlier (in 2 or 3h) so I can start reviewing and preparing our svn
[01:54] <siretart> kelmo: just tell me where you prepare the notes
[01:54] <siretart> kelmo: hey, we are both Co-maintainers for this package ;)
[01:54] <kelmo> siretart: i will email pkg-wpa
[01:55] <siretart> ok
[01:55] <kelmo> siretart: being co-maintainer does not mean you must talk with me about anything ;-)
[01:55] <kelmo> although, that'd be quite unhealthy
[01:56] <kelmo> siretart: i have 2 hours until the clock strikes twleve, then i must sleep or else my work will suffer ;-)
[01:56] <siretart> kelmo: no. but every change must be documented in the changelog so all developers know what happens
[01:56] <siretart> kelmo: ok. I'll continue then
[01:56] <kelmo> see you later
[02:04] <kelmo> siretart: oh yeah, slightly off topic, but /usr/bin/* was completely missing on my laptop due to ext3 corruption just last night : (
[02:04] <kelmo> siretart: etch beta2 netinstall saved the day in about one hour
[02:06] <Whoopie> Hi, where can I find the the build progress of the dapper-updates packages?
[02:08] <Riddell> Whoopie: same place as any other package
[02:08] <Riddell> Whoopie: buildds are on manual and upload to dapper-updates have to be approved
[02:08] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+builds
[02:09] <Whoopie> Riddell: so, when they are accepted in dapper-updates, they are not built automaticly?
[02:10] <Riddell> Whoopie: correct
[02:10] <Riddell> you need to talk nicely to infinity
[02:10] <ogra> and get approval for the upload first :)
[02:10] <Riddell> the approval bit is even less transparent, no launchpad interface to that
[02:11] <Whoopie> ok, thanks. that's for all packages, not only universe/multiverse?
[02:11] <Riddell> yes, all packages
[02:11] <Whoopie> hmm
[02:11] <siretart> kelmo: puh. lucky you :)
[02:15] <Sp4rKy> what's the members section at ubuntu.com ?
[02:16] <jpatrick> where?
[02:16] <Sp4rKy> jpatrick, yes where sorry
[02:16] <ogra> what members section ?
[02:17] <jpatrick> Sp4rKy: ^
[02:17] <Sp4rKy> ogra, section with all personnal pages
[02:17] <ogra> there is launchpad and the wiki, feel free to make a personal page on one of them ...
[02:17] <ogra> (or on both)
[02:18] <Sp4rKy> i've done a personal page on the wifi , but i don't know where it is so i can't find it to modify :p
[02:18] <jpatrick> wiki.ubuntu.com
[02:19] <ogra> the wiki has a search function
[02:48] <Hobbsee> greetings all.
[02:50] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
[02:50] <Hobbsee> hey TheMuso :)
[02:51] <Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee. TheMuso
[02:51] <Hobbsee> hey Yagisan
[02:51] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee, Yagisan, TheMuso
[02:52] <Yagisan> night ajmitch
[02:52] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch and goodnight :)
[02:56] <Talorex> hi
[02:56] <Yagisan> hmm. can anyone suggest an app that captures opengl to either .avi or to lossless images ?
[03:05] <kelmo> siretart: as an added bonus, that init script has _completely_ dissappeared ;-)
[03:05] <Whoopie> Riddell: just onother question: there's http://buildd.debian.org. Is there something equal in Ubuntu?
[03:05] <siretart> kelmo: yay! :)
[03:05] <siretart> kelmo: err, btw, why?
[03:05] <jpatrick> Whoopie: https://launchpad.net/+builds
[03:06] <kelmo> siretart: wpa_action is the way we support roaming, not some half baked init daemon, imho
[03:06] <kelmo> siretart: i did not want to send conflicting messages (and again, this was not meant to enter sid!)
[03:06] <siretart> kelmo: right, we agreed on that some time ago. the initscript in usr/share/doc doesn't hurt however, did it?
[03:07] <kelmo> siretart: i can reinstate it right now, as part of the current changeset, if required (i do not like the code in the init script however)
[03:08] <Whoopie> jpatrick: thanks. I'm blind and didn't see the search function. sorry.
[03:08] <siretart> kelmo: I'd say keep it in usr/share/doc for now. it doesn't hurt, isn't a conffile, doesn't cause conflicts
[03:08] <siretart> just in case somebody like felix again comes up and screems,before wigroamer is implemented and uploaded
[03:09] <kelmo> siretart: well, at the time it was removed, i was gloating about how nice wpa_raom was working (for me)
[03:09] <kelmo> siretart: will do it
[03:10] <siretart> I don't like it either, it is rather a defensive measure for ppl like felix..
[03:10] <siretart> thanks
[03:10] <kelmo> siretart: I added the madwifiold patch
[03:10] <siretart> cool. thanks
[03:10] <kelmo> siretart: made a NEWS entry with brief instructions on how to enable it
[03:10] <kelmo> siretart: edited WPA wiki page on w.d.o
[03:11] <kelmo> siretart: made a note on madwifi.org debian page that links to other page on w.d.o
[03:12] <kelmo> i am sure you will be able to improve some of the text
[03:12] <kelmo> but its the best i can offer in this timeframe
[03:12] <siretart> kelmo: no problem. get some sleep, I will continue in about an hour
[03:13] <kelmo> siretart: should we think about asking for a new upload, considering the circumstances?
[03:15] <siretart> kelmo: will do so on the list, as soon as I looked at it, okay?
[03:15] <kelmo> siretart: yep, cool
[03:54] <kelmo> siretart: one last quickie, should I transfer branches/wpasupplicant-0.5 to trunk, or not yet?
[03:55] <siretart> kelmo: do it, we can still revert if necessary
[03:56] <kelmo> siretart: and good news is we have kyle's attention ;-)
[03:59] <siretart> kelmo: I just answered
[04:00] <siretart> ah, you as well ;)
[04:07] <kelmo> siretart: i copied trunk to /branches/wpasupplicant-0.4
[04:08] <kelmo> siretart: and repopulated trunk with current version
[04:08] <kelmo> s/copied/moved/
[04:08] <siretart> ok. great.
[04:09] <kelmo> well, popualation is taking a long time on my link
[04:52] <tired_off_being_> Hi, I noticed a problem with *.archive.ubuntu.com and wanted to make sure you were aware of it. One of the two servers doesn't have the right content
[04:53] <cf2> Compare http://85.133.25.8/ (good) with http://85.133.25.7/ (bad)
[04:53] <cf2> <random person> on #ubuntu pointed me here, so apologies if I'm off base
[04:54] <Spec> me, it was me, bwahahhaaa.
[05:19] <phanatic> afternoon everyone
[05:44] <cf2> Spec: since I've had no response, should I file a bug ?
[05:51] <hub> how can a MOTU fix a package in main?
[05:51] <pygi> hub, a sponsor can upload fix for you
[05:51] <_ion> http://johan.kiviniemi.name/software/goodmorning/
[05:52] <hub> so I have to talk to seb128 then
[05:54] <zul> i could do it for you once edgy opens
[05:56] <bddebian> Howdy gang
[05:57] <Spec> cf2: dunno
[05:58] <cf2> Spec: so maybe the server died and isn't set up again. The the consquences for apt have been going for a few days
[05:58] <cf2> *again yet
[06:04] <Spec> hey, cf2 i would but bddebian, he seems to know everything
[06:04] <bddebian> Bah, I don't know anything
[06:07] <cf2> bddebian: I noticed that the two machines that resolve for *.archive.ubuntu.com have different content. Compare http://85.133.25.8/ (good) with http://85.133.25.7/ (bad)
[06:08] <cf2> This gives me gzip errors when running Synaptic/Update Manager because .7 is returning a text 404 instead of a valid gzip archive
[06:08] <cf2> (stock sources.list on Dapper)
[06:09] <bddebian> Probably should ask in #-devel?
[06:09] <cf2> That's #ubuntu-devel or literally what you said ?
[06:10] <jpatrick> the former
[06:10] <cf2> ok, will try that then
[06:10] <cf2> thanks for your help
[06:39] <Spec> so, i submitted a package to revu yesterday, what should i do about it? :p (i don't see it on revu.tauware.de?)
[06:44] <siretart> Spec: which one?
[06:45] <Spec> cxacrufw-1.2
[06:50] <siretart> Spec: ah, you didn't read the instructions properly ;)
[06:51] <siretart> Spec: you uploaded a binary package. they can't be reviewed and are ignored by revu
[06:51] <siretart> Spec: btw, did you intend to upload a native package?
[06:53] <Spec> native as in i386?
[06:53] <Spec> Hmm, I thought I uploaded the source package
[06:53] <Spec> d'oh, i didn't
[06:54] <bddebian> Hi ivoks
[06:54] <Spec> ok, just uploaded the source
[06:55] <siretart> Spec: again, without .orig.tar.gz
[06:55] <siretart> native, as in without .orig.tar.gz
[06:56] <Spec> How does the .orig.tar.gz get made?
[06:57] <Spec> oh, dh_make makes that
[07:00] <Spec> can't upload it again because the file exists?
[07:02] <Spec> i can't delete it off the ftp server :p
[07:04] <LaserJock> Spec: did you use dput -f
[07:05] <Spec> of course not
[07:05] <Spec> okay, all is uploaded, and the .orig :p
[07:07] <Spec> i don't know where the .orig file went though, it's not in the incoming/ directory it seems
[07:07] <Spec> oh, no, i'm an idiot. wrong repo, anyways, i still get an error: "Error 553 Could not create file. ' because cxacrufw_1.2-1.dsc already exists
[07:09] <siretart> Spec: I removed it for you one more time ;)
[07:09] <Spec> yay :)
[07:09] <Spec> i noticed :p
[07:10] <Spec> phew, it's all there now :p
[07:11] <Spec> now i wait on a cronjob to do mini-dinstall or the equivalent?
[07:11] <LaserJock> siretart: what is up with that? It keeps happening
[07:11] <LaserJock> the .dsc file just needs to be removed?
[07:11] <siretart> Spec: and you didn't ask me to include your keyid :/
[07:11] <Spec> hmm?
[07:12] <Spec> I think the changes file was rejected
[07:12] <Spec> oh, no, it's actually there :p
[07:12] <siretart> now it has got accepted, I imported Specs key
[07:13] <siretart> I'm off for today now. cu
[07:14] <Spec> thanks :)
[10:04] <bddebian> So who knows grep-dctrl?
[10:08] <LaserJock> bddebian: what are you trying to do?
[10:08] <bddebian> I want to see what packages build-depend on foo
[10:09] <bddebian> I try grep-dctrl -F Build-depends foo and get nothing
[10:09] <LaserJock> and you are telling it what packages to do that on?
[10:11] <bddebian> Well I think I can use the Packages file but I'm not sure
[10:12] <LaserJock> bddebian: I usually use lucas' multi-distro-tools for that
[10:14] <bddebian> Hmm
[10:15] <LaserJock> or I write a python script for the heck of it
[10:33] <bddebian> ryanakca: Still here?
[10:33] <ryanakca> yep
[10:34] <bddebian> Any luck with the scons thing yet?
[10:38] <ryanakca> nope
[10:39] <Toadstool> g'night motus
[10:40] <bddebian> What are you trying to package?
[10:40] <bddebian> Gnight Toadstool
[10:43] <ryanakca> Secret Maryo Chronicles
[10:43] <ryanakca> want me to ftp/dcc/put the source on my server/whatever for you?
[10:44] <bddebian> ryanakca: It's your own package?
[10:44] <ryanakca> no...
[10:44] <ryanakca> I'm making a package... from someone elses source
[10:45] <ryanakca> or you can download the .zip http://www.secretmaryo.org/
 E.g. "debuild binary" reports that it doesn't know how to "binary" despite that being in the manpage
[10:47] <bluefoxicy> lol
[10:48] <_ion> Worksforme
[10:48] <ryanakca> bddebian: any ideas?
[10:51] <bddebian> ryanakca: Looking :-)
[10:51] <ryanakca> :)
[10:51] <ryanakca> btw... I have piano soon, so I might not reply for a while :D
[10:51] <blanky> hey guys, is there anything I can help with with python? I mean, is there something I can look at, a page or something, that shows the projects/bugs/things that require python knowledge to fix?
[10:51] <LaserJock> blanky: no one is here?
[10:51] <LaserJock> :-)
[10:52] <blanky> >=O
[10:52] <ogra> LaserJock, well, its easy to oversee the 115 ppl hiding in the rooms corners ;)
[10:52] <LaserJock> well, I do suppose all those slackers don't count ;-)
[10:52] <ogra> heh
[10:52] <bddebian> Do
[10:53] <bddebian> h
[10:53] <bddebian> I resemble that remark ;-P
[10:53] <crimsun_> bddebian's no slacker, he's a deity
[10:53] <blanky> so...
[10:54] <Murray> I'm new here and would like to help dev. I'm just not sure where to start.
[10:54] <LaserJock> anybody know if Uploaders: means anything in Ubuntu?
[10:54] <ogra> nope, it doesnt
[10:54] <ogra> like Maintainer:
[10:54] <LaserJock> k, that's what I thought, oh well
[10:56] <LaserJock> blanky and Murray: give me a sec and I'll be with you
[10:56] <blanky> kay
[10:57] <bddebian> ryanakca: Where do you see that it uses scons?
[10:58] <ryanakca> bddebian: forums... bbl...
[10:58] <bddebian> NP, I have to head home anyway.  I'll check it out
[10:58] <Spec> so...any MOTU wanna review/advocate my package? O:)
[10:59] <bddebian> Later folks
[11:00] <phanatic> Spec: i'm not a motu, but i could have a look if you want :)
[11:00] <Spec> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2426 :)
[11:02] <LaserJock> ok blanky and Murray
[11:02] <blanky> :)
[11:02] <LaserJock> blanky: are you interested in writing new apps, or bug fixing, or packaging existing apps?
[11:02] <blanky> all/either
[11:02] <blanky> except for packaging existing apps
[11:04] <LaserJock> hmm, well for looking for new stuff I'd check out specs
[11:04] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
[11:04] <LaserJock> and for bugs
[11:04] <LaserJock> I'd check out wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[11:05] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay, and also #ubuntu-bugs
[11:05] <blanky> kay, what I was particularly interested in was, I heard recently that ubuntu wanted it's programs, or more programs rather, in python, so I was wondering if there was a page that showed just what types of programs they were looking for, or what was in demand
[11:05] <LaserJock> well, there is lots of stuff needed, but there isn't a Python specifc list
[11:06] <blanky> okay, thanks
[11:07] <LaserJock> Ubuntu sort of "leans" towards Python but it isn't exclusive by any means
[11:07] <LaserJock> it depends on the app and upstream authors, etc.
[11:07] <blanky> of course
[11:07] <LaserJock> the specs might be a good place to find projects to work on
[11:09] <LaserJock> but Ubuntu itself is a distro so don't think we exactly write a lot of new software
[11:09] <Murray> I'd like to start the Linux programming bit. I am a elec. eng. 8 years exp. in Borland Delphi. I use GNU GCC for embedded Firmware dev. Assembler etc. but very limited unix experience/exposure.
 This appears to be a breakage if using CDBS rather than the templated debian/rules file built by dh_make
[11:09] <Murray> I'd like to start the Linux programming bit. I am a elec. eng. 8 years exp. in Borland Delphi. I use GNU GCC for embedded Firmware dev. Assembler etc. but very limited unix experience/exposure.
[11:09] <Murray> I'd like to start the Linux programming bit. I am a elec. eng. 8 years exp. in Borland Delphi. I use GNU GCC for embedded Firmware dev. Assembler etc. but very limited or no unix experience/exposure.
[11:09] <bluefoxicy> Murray:  stfu
[11:09] <bluefoxicy> Murray:  Er, I mean, only post the same question once.
[11:09] <ogra> bluefoxicy, be careful with your wording
[11:09] <Murray> Sorry!
[11:09] <bluefoxicy> _ion:  still worksforyou?
[11:09] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: I had a bunch of lag
[11:09] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: it could have been that
[11:10] <phanatic> LaserJock: do you have reviewer rights on revu?
[11:10] <bluefoxicy> ogra:  'stfu' is much faster to type though :)
[11:10] <LaserJock> phanatic: yeah
[11:10] <LaserJock> but I have to go right now
[11:10] <ogra> bluefoxicy, but totally inappropriate for any ubuntu channel
[11:10] <phanatic> LaserJock: okay then :)
[11:10] <bluefoxicy> ogra:  well yeah, but to be fair so is flooding :)
[11:11] <ogra> but you can tell him to stop it in a more appropriate way
[11:11] <bluefoxicy> ogra:  you're no fun (ad-hominem)
[11:11] <Murray> Sorry folks it seems my IRC ap treats a cut and paste as a enter. By bad.
[11:12] <bluefoxicy> Murray:  okay then well anyway.
[11:13] <blanky> !language
[11:13] <Erlang> ?language ?
[11:13] <blanky> erlang, isn't that that weird networking langauge?
[11:13] <blanky> *language
[11:14] <blanky> http://www.erlang.org/about.html
[11:14] <Murray> Anyone...?
[11:14] <Erlang> yes
[11:15] <Erlang> Murray: your welcome to get involed is pretty much the only thing we can answer to your "question".
[11:16] <Murray> ADV on where to start? What lang. are mostly used in the ubuntu packages etc.
[11:18] <Erlang> In the packages, C/C++ is majority.  But development started by Ubuntu is in Python.
[11:19] <phanatic> Spec: ping
[11:22] <Murray> Thanks Erlang. Do you have a suggestion of a simple typical ap that I should use as an example. To build myself. mod. learn etc. Like windows calc, but one that is a good example of what the community expects?
[11:24] <Erlang> Murray: no I don't have such answer.
[11:25] <Erlang> Murray: the best way to get involved into such a big project is to hook up to something you care about.
[11:26] <Erlang> Murray: for example, you could work on some package related to embeded software
[11:28] <Murray> K. no experience in Python though. Downloading it now. wil have to do some learning first.
[11:30] <Erlang> should be easy enough
[11:48] <Murray> Thanks for the adv. download compleated. see you all soon.