/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/06/14/#ubuntu-devel.txt

KeybukIGNORING YOUR OWN DEADLINES, EH?! :)12:02
mdzyes, low priority12:03
jmg:-)12:03
=== jmg goes back to replying to all the recruiters that emailed him this morning
mdzKeybuk: besides, the point of the deadline was to give us a chance to look over what we have without it changing all the time12:03
Keybukhehe12:03
KeybukI know12:03
mdzsabdfl: speaking of which, in case you're behind on mail, please don't accept any new stuff for paris for a bit; we're sorting through what we have12:04
mdzsabdfl: and Keybuk and I are borrowing #ubuntu-meeting to coordinate that effort12:04
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mdzBenC: see my last comment on bug 43531, would like to hear back while I'm working on the agenda for paris12:07
UbugtuMalone bug 43531 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Kernel isn't very useful without a boot loader, but doesn't depend on one" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4353112:07
BenCmdz: Ok12:07
mdzBenC: I think there's probably stuff to talk about since the installer is involved12:08
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sabdflmdz: i'm not accepting anything for paris for fear of being accused of setting edgy goals ;-)12:09
sabdflso far, so good12:09
Keybuksabdfl: does blueprint automatically set things to accepted?12:10
sabdflKeybuk: if you would have the right to accept it12:10
sabdflso, if a member of ubuntu-drivers nominates a spec, it will be accepted12:10
Keybukah, so if anyone on ubuntu-drivers proposes a spec, it goes straight to accepted without collecting 200$ ?12:10
sabdflbtw, ubuntu-drivers should not include core dev, if it still does12:11
sabdflthe drivers really should be drivers12:11
sabdflcan i fix that now?12:11
BenCmdz: No sure if we need a talk, but if we make it low-priority, we can pick up discussion if there's time12:12
BenCmdz: Just added my comment to the bug12:12
mdzsabdfl: only if you fix "faster pussycat, kill kill kill" while you're there12:12
sabdflmdz?12:12
mdzsabdfl: top of https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-drivers12:12
sabdflwow12:13
sabdflno idea where that came from12:13
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sabdflvery non-CoC12:13
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mdzsabdfl: h4x0rz12:13
Keybuksabdfl: you're the only person who can edit that12:13
Keybukdid someone hack you with alcohol?12:13
sivangwas this text added intentionally ? :p12:13
pygihey hey simira 12:14
pygierggh, sivang*12:14
sabdflweird12:14
sabdfli can't see where to edit that text12:14
Keybukit's probably the team's homepage12:14
sabdflright - done12:15
sabdflthis page is seriously lacking a nice title/context12:16
mdzsabdfl: do we really need ubuntu-drivers at all?  shouldn't that just be TB?12:16
mdzit's basically TB + people who were added because they were helping with the schedule at UBZ12:16
sabdflmdz: useful to be able to add people here when its needed without affecting TB12:16
sabdfli'll take the janes off the list12:17
Keybukshould the TB be the owner/administrator?12:17
sabdflcan do, too12:17
mdzthat'd be slightly less cabalistic12:17
sabdfldone12:18
mdzsabdfl: my basic rule of thumb for accepting things for the paris agenda is that one of the attendees is interested12:18
mdzsabdfl: maybe for the next one we could have LP do that calculation for us?12:19
sabdflmdz: could do... but we could also just show the people (or the number of people) associated with it that are also registered for the sprint, on the accept/decline page12:20
mdzI have a list of spec tracker ideas and needs resulting from working with it a bunch recently12:20
sabdflso its still a manual process, just better informed12:20
mdzsabdfl: that's what I was suggesting12:20
sabdflmdz: cool, suggestions welcome12:20
mdzthat gives us a chance to scare up some interest about it12:20
sabdflmain thing on my todo is to move everything to blueprint.launchpad.net/ so you stay in a specs view while jumping from upstream to the distro and to people12:21
mdzthough when it's proposed, LP should probably say "there's no one attending the sprint who's interested in it; it's unlikely to be accepted unless someone signs up to talk about it"12:21
mdzsabdfl: my stuff is so much more useful than that though ;-)12:21
sabdflwe should also ask people to note their attendance in LP rather than the wiki12:21
sivangmdz , sabdfl : maybe "My interest in this spec is [1.....x.10] " tick box for sub'ers ?12:22
sabdflmdz: useful to... you?12:22
sabdfl;-)12:22
sivangsort of a poll style..12:22
sabdfli primarily want to use blueprint to lead the other apps12:22
mdzsabdfl: correct12:22
mdzme being someone who uses the spec tracker a lot ;-)12:22
mdzKeybuk: why are you trying to join motu?12:23
sivanghehe12:23
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Keybukmdz: s/motu/core-dev/ ... was just testing something and needed a team where it was a no-op to join12:23
Keybukie. one I was already a member of by inferance12:24
BenCI've been deactivated from Ubuntu Drivers!12:24
mdzKeybuk: why is mjg59 whining about the mailbombing when he was supposed to go to sleep?12:24
sabdflBenC: we took the u-core-dev team out of drivers12:24
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Keybuksabdfl: bug!  I got a mail saying I was deactived from Ubuntu Drivers ... yet I'm still a member via a different team12:25
BenCit's ok, I'm on too many teams as it is :)12:25
sabdflKeybuk: file it, assign to salgado12:25
Keybukmdz: because the tech-board is marked as an approved for all the specs ... so his mail box is full of e-mail about every change we made :p12:25
sabdflKeybuk: good catch ;-)12:25
mdzKeybuk: but he said he was going to sleep before we did that12:25
sabdflKeybuk: why did you mark the tech-board an approver?12:25
Keybukmdz: he woke up again12:25
mdzKeybuk: that was his excuse for ditching out on the discussion12:25
mdzI see12:25
Keybuksabdfl: so we'd get e-mail about all the changes12:25
mdzmjg59: you're not coming to paris?12:26
sabdflhmm... reduces the value of the approver slot, though12:26
mjg59mdz: Correct12:26
mjg59(And I'm supposed to be sleeping, damnit)12:26
sabdflKeybuk: the scheduler will try to make sure the approver is in an early discussion session, to get things off on the right foot12:26
=== mjg59 curses his sleep cycle
sabdflfor edgy, since specs are sort of "self lead", folks will generally want to be their own approvers12:26
Keybuksabdfl: right, the theory is to change that before the meeting when we assign real approvers12:27
sabdflok12:27
sabdfljus' checkin'12:27
sabdflnight all. morning mjg59.12:27
mdzKeybuk: they all start as tech board and will get delegated from there as appropriate12:27
Keybukmjg59: why aren't you coming? :(12:27
mdzbut I appreciate getting mail about the changes12:28
mdzmjg59: yeah, shame on you12:28
mjg59Keybuk: Work12:28
Keybuk135 specs ?!12:28
Keybukthey're going up!12:28
mdzI didn't add one12:28
mdznot since the one I admitted to12:29
Keybukdrive-backports ?12:29
Keybukuh, driver-backports12:29
mdzthat's the one12:29
Keybukhmm, then another one got added between me counting 133 and sabdfl counting 13412:30
sabdflaiiieee... it's too many, we'll need to do good prioritisation, try give everyone at least one essential, a couple of high, etc12:30
Keybukstat: if each spec requires 3 sessions, and we have 6 sessions a day ... then we need 14 concurrent sessions to fit them all in12:30
sabdflgood specs require 6-9 sessions, from experience12:31
sabdfledgy might be less, since it's self-inspired12:31
sabdflthe guy writing it up is the guy who dreamed it up, in more cases12:31
sabdflso mostly, he gets to call for comments and feedback, and check interactions with other devs12:31
sabdflbut still12:31
sabdflwe could easily end up with lots of half-done or badly-done specs, if we try take on too much12:32
sabdflit's a very tight cycle12:32
sabdflmdz: do you want to ask guys to estimate dev time, for specs they are dreaming up?12:32
mdzsabdfl: I don't think we can reasonably expect that until the spec is fleshed out12:33
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Keybukah, #134 was ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration12:33
sabdflok, night all, really12:33
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bluefoxicyah, good.12:40
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HiddenWolfbluefoxicy: osnews/osdir has them for you.12:47
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sivangKeybuk: I'm actually erroring at trying to understand the meaning of the software appliance term, they were not using it a year a go IIRC01:01
Keybuk"our primary business plan failed, here's plan B"01:01
sivanghehe 01:02
sivanganyway, I'm way past my bed time. laters all, night Keybuk 01:02
neuralismako: ping01:04
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  I'm just picking up major highlights on the install process.  I'm planning on boot screen, live desktop, live desktop + firefox, install (with a GNU/FreeDOS partition resize), booting (skip G/FD in grub), and at the desktop.01:06
Keybukbluefoxicy: hmm?01:07
bluefoxicyer.01:07
bluefoxicyI meant HiddenWolf01:07
Keybukdid you mean HiddenWolf ? :)01:07
bluefoxicyI mean the keys are practically the same01:08
bluefoxicyKey<tab>, Hid<tab>, you know.01:08
HiddenWolfbluefoxicy: ah, ok.01:08
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Keybukbluefoxicy: yes, I can see that01:11
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bddebianHeya02:09
LaserJockanybody know what the default debconf interface is, Dialog?02:09
LaserJockand do individual package managers (like synaptic) override that?02:09
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LaserJockinfinity: ping?02:22
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Keybukajmitch: my approach for that is to do rm -rf *; tar xf ../new-tar.tar.gz --strip-components=102:55
Keybukbzr add02:55
Keybuk(bzr notices the removed files automatically)02:55
ajmitchright02:55
Keybukbasically the same as "moving the .bzr" yes02:55
Keybukit does work particularly well02:56
ajmitchso far most of mine just have debian/ in bzr02:56
ajmitchI did experiment awhile with keeping various branches, including upstream, around also02:56
KeybukI've not really been enamoured about debian/ in bzr02:57
Keybukit's handy for collaboration though I guess02:57
ajmitchI didn't really have useful tools for getting all the patch branches together, keeping everything in sync02:58
ajmitchit seemed like more work for less gain02:58
KeybukI decided to drop debian/patches entirely02:58
Keybuk"emulating revision control" again02:59
Keybukso I have a "release branch"/"integration branch" which I make releases from02:59
sladenKeybuk: how do you cope with rediffing your changes against a fresh upstream?02:59
Keybukand I do feature work on separate branches (the old patches)02:59
Keybuksladen: I have an excellent example right here02:59
Keybuk$ cd upstream02:59
Keybuk$ rm -rf *02:59
Keybuk$ tar xf ../udev-094.tar.gz --strip-components=102:59
Keybuk$ bzr add03:00
Keybuk$ bzr commit -m "import udev 094"03:00
Keybuk$ cd ../ubuntu03:00
Keybuk$ bzr merge ../upstream03:00
Keybuk(no conflicts this time)03:00
Keybuk$ bzr commit -m "update to udev 094"03:00
Keybuk$ uch -v094-0ubuntu103:00
Keybuk$ dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S03:00
sladenI see03:00
=== ajmitch might as well try it out again
Keybuk(the top lot is just one shell script I have, btw)03:01
Keybukso I really just do03:01
sladenand presumely if launchpad is automatically pulling in upstream into bzr then the above means you can just merge from the launchpad copy03:01
Keybukubuntu$ new-upstream ../udev-094.tar.gz03:02
Keybuksladen: exactly03:02
=== sladen has forgotten what part of launchpad was doing this
ajmitchsladen: harder when there's no tags 03:02
Keybukimportd03:02
Keybukajmitch: just create branches where you would have created tags03:02
Keybukmain$ bzr push sftp://ajmitch@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ajmitch/foo/TAG03:02
ajmitchsure, I mean that launchpad doesn't have any tags or similar on the imported products03:03
Keybuklaunchpad doesn't really _do_ imported products yet03:03
ajmitchit has the 0.1 branch of f-spot, for example03:03
ajmitchright03:03
Keybukit's still alpha code03:03
ajmitchonce all the relevant upstream products are imported, it will be quite useful03:05
sladenKeybuk: so once it's in that state, what's the easiest way of backing out individual patches that were applied several revisions back03:05
Keybuksladen: well, what I do for patches is03:08
Keybuk(creating one)03:08
Keybuk$ cp upstream ubuntu.iftab03:08
Keybuk$ cd ubuntu.iftab03:08
Keybuk$ vi ...03:08
Keybuk$ bzr commit03:08
Keybuk$ cd ../ubuntu03:08
Keybuk$ bzr merge ../ubuntu.iftab03:08
Keybuk$ bzr commit -m "merge iftab patch"03:08
jmgwas there a UTB meeting this morning?03:09
Keybukso that's a patch _in_03:09
Keybukto update the patch is03:09
Keybuk$ cd ../ubuntu.iftab03:09
Keybuk$ bzr pull ../upstream03:09
Keybuk(or merge)03:09
Keybukso the patch is actually based on upstream03:09
Keybukto back out the patch is easy03:09
jmghmm03:09
Keybuk$ bzr merge -r $(bzr revno ../ubuntu.iftab)..1 ../ubuntu.iftab03:10
Keybuk(ie merge it in reverse)03:10
Keybukjmg: there was an extraordinary meeting of the Ubuntu Technical Board to discuss spec priorities -- the ordinary meeting was last week and will be again next week03:10
jmgKeybuk: ah ok, yes some of my specs were accepted03:11
Keybukwere some declined?03:11
jmgKeybuk: but there are no logs online yet03:11
Keybukthe log should in the usual ubuntu-meeting irclogs place03:11
jmgKeybuk: no03:11
Keybukit's not very interesting reading03:12
jmgKeybuk: hasnt shown up yet03:12
=== jmg wonders how he can word his ubuntu stuff for his CV
ajmitchjmg: still doing the job hunt? :)03:14
jmgajmitch: interview tomorrow, phone interview this afternoon03:15
jmgajmitch: i've been relaxing :)03:15
ajmitchheh, good03:15
ajmitchpotential job might still be using ubuntu?03:15
jmgdebian03:16
jmgi'll convince them to switch to ubuntu-server :)03:16
jmgi think they would like to have an ubuntu contributor on board, even if he isnt a warthog03:17
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jmgyet :)03:17
jmgthis meeting is confusing03:18
Keybukwhich meeting?03:19
sladenKeybuk: so this means that you have to keep each of that branch directories around indefinately?03:21
Keybuksladen: push them onto the supermirror and it can do that for you03:21
jmgah ok, it was for paris03:22
sladenKeybuk: oh boy, that's alot of diskspace/bandwidth03:22
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ajmitchsladen: not so bad with repositories03:23
Keybuksladen: not really, just one revision03:23
jmgKeybuk: this morning, my specs were approved without discussion03:23
sladenfor some definition of "so bad"03:23
Keybuksladen: another option is just to bzr log -v and grab the revision ids03:23
jmgKeybuk: what is Paris? is that the edgy planning event?03:23
Keybukjmg: yes03:23
jmghopefully i can attend via IRC :-)03:24
sladenKeybuk: then reverse-merge from the current directory?03:24
Keybukright03:24
KeybukI can grep "bzr log -v" for "branch nick: ubuntu.iftab"03:24
sladenKeybuk: eg.  bzr merge -r x..x+1 . ?03:24
Keybukand get the "merged: id" from it03:24
sladenthat's a much better solution, as long as you don't want to keep modifying the patches03:25
Keybukeven if you modify the patches, you can just do it repeatedly for each one with that branch nick03:25
ajmitchall these neat little features that snuck into bzr when I wasn't watching03:26
sladenKeybuk: so if you're editing  foo.patch  you do  mv ./packagename packagename.foo ; cd packagename.foo ... merge ; cd .. ; mv packagename{.foo,}03:27
sladenjust to set the branch nick?03:27
Keybukno, I'd cheat and do "bzr nick iftab"03:27
sladenthis is starting to make more senes03:28
sladen(even if I'm not making senes)03:28
Keybukadmittedly, the "decide not to include a patch anymore" case is slightly harder with bzr03:29
Keybukbut I don't think that's a very common case03:29
Keybukthe common case is simply that the patch is merged upstream -- with bzr that's a no-op03:30
Keybukvery rarely is a patch abaonded03:30
Keybuk(I could be wrong)03:30
sladenit can happen when upstream won't take a patch and you decide it's just not worth carrying the delta03:30
Keybukthat would assume that the delta is expensive to maintain03:31
sladenso more likely to be the case in Universe03:31
Keybukthe theory of bzr says that deltas become cheap to maintain03:31
sladenyes03:31
Lathiatthat could easily not be the case especially in rapidly changing projects, no?03:32
Keybuktrue03:32
sladena sync from Debian is the fast path;  a scripted solution that attempted the import+merge would in theory be just as easy03:32
sladenit moment it fails to merge, you're back to a human though03:33
Keybukthat's always going to be the case03:34
Keybukif two people change the same code in two different ways03:34
Keybukonly a human can resolve it03:34
Keybuka revision control system at least gives you "A", "B" and "BASE"03:34
Keybukrather than just A and B03:34
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stuNNedok so esd should be disabled by default and just rely on hw system beep and raw alsa support imho04:27
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stuNNedthrew crappy imitation flash at esd and it fried alsa04:42
stuNNedcompiling gnash can't find X04:42
stuNNedor xlibs04:42
stuNNedone sec let me try the dev packages maybe04:43
stuNNedthn x04:43
stuNNed18.4mb isn't too bad, crap 04:43
stuNNedanother 20mb of -dev packages to get gnash going :D04:54
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infinityAhh, it's nice when I wake up to an internet connection that doesn't suck...05:35
infinityFetched 121MB in 2m0s (1005kB/s)05:35
=== Hobbsee glares at the injustice of that. where are you, infinity?
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dholbachgood morning07:15
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tepsipakkifabbione: about the netboot failing here yesterday.. it still does, and the reason is that the installer is trying "http://localmirror/ubuntu dapper-security" which is quite impossible to create08:12
fabbionetepsipakki: dapper-security is also on the normal mirrors08:13
fabbionei have it on my localmirror as well08:13
tepsipakkiit is? ok.. will try08:13
fabbioneso probably you are victim of a wrong mirror pulse08:13
fabbionethere have been mirroring issues yesterday08:13
tepsipakkiwell, it isn't mirrored here, yet :/08:13
fabbionei don't know if they have been fixed08:13
fabbioneit is here08:14
tepsipakkibut I think it should use s.u.c if a local mirror doesn't exitst08:14
tepsipakkiexist08:14
tepsipakkibut hold on08:14
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fabbionetepsipakki: i am not going anywhere for the next 10 minutes at least08:17
pittiGood morning08:18
fabbionehey pitti08:18
tepsipakki195189630 bytes will be downloaded into archive.08:18
dholbachhi pitti08:18
tepsipakkifabbione: I'll report in a minute if that was it :)08:18
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tepsipakkibah, forgot to mirror main/debian-installer08:23
tepsipakkihmm no, I'm lost now.. it didn't mirror the udeb, and I don't know what repo to use for that08:24
tepsipakkioh wait..08:25
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tepsipakkitrial-and-error, that's me08:28
tepsipakkifabbione: it works now08:28
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pittihi ivoks08:53
ivokshi pitti 08:53
ivokspitti: that patch for sharing printer should be droped :)08:54
pittiivoks: which one?08:54
ivokssince it doesn't share printer, but printers... and cups can share single printer08:54
ivokspitti: the one that didn't get into dapper08:54
pittiivoks: oh, the g-cups-mgr UI one08:54
ivoksyes08:54
pittiivoks: for edgy we need a completely new UI infrastructure anyway (eggcups?), so we need a new patch08:55
pittiivoks: so we should extend enable_sharing to specify a printer name, too?08:55
ivoksright, but we should look how to implement "share this printer"08:55
ivoksyes08:55
pittiivoks: it would still open the port, and then set an ACL on the partiuclar printer08:55
ivokscups 1.2 supports that08:55
ivoksright08:55
ivoksit just needs additional instructions...08:56
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ivokspitti: looks like fedora has some development around eggcups09:05
pittiivoks: yes, I think they wrote it in the first place09:06
ivoksoh...09:06
pittiivoks: however, last update was Februrary 200409:06
pittinot exactly up to date either09:07
ivoksum...09:07
ivoksnot quite09:07
ivokshttp://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/fedora/devel/ppc/desktop-printing-0.19-6.ppc.html09:07
ivoksit's quite newer09:08
ivoksactully, it's never than dapper :)09:08
pittithat url doesn't quite seem to work09:08
ivoksok, almost :)09:08
ivokspitti: ok, check this out ftp://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/source/SRPMS/desktop-printing-0.19-9.src.rpm09:08
pittiivoks: however, eggcups is just a gnome-cups-icon replacement09:08
pittiivoks: this one is a g-cups-mgr equivalent?09:09
ivokspitti: i see only eggcups in that archive09:09
ivoksbut version 0.1909:09
ivoksyup... last release in 2005.09:10
pittijdub: ping09:10
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ivokspitti: yes, this is only icon, they use system-config-printer for printer managment09:13
pittiivoks: what's that?09:13
pittihey seb128!09:13
seb128hello pitti09:13
ivokspitti: redhat's tool09:14
ivokspitti: py program09:14
pittithere's really no current gnome-native printer management tool?09:14
ivoksi searched and searched... but...09:14
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ivoksdidn't find anything _recent_09:15
seb128gnome-cups-manager?09:15
ivoks:D09:15
ivoksseb128: recent :)09:15
seb128ivoks: it's recent09:15
pittiseb128: something that sucks less09:15
seb128or do you want to start a new software from scratch every months to get something "recent"?09:16
pittiseb128: no, but something that provides better hotplug support and dbus integration :)09:16
pittiseb128: and g-c-m is dead upstream09:16
seb128I think some Novell guys worked on thaty09:17
seb128CVS has probably some new feature over current tarball09:17
pittioh, cool09:17
=== pitti looks
desrtseb128; how was the vacation?09:17
pittiseb128: it seems we should at least use eggcups instead of g-c-icon to get rid of the polling and 100% cpu usage problems, right?09:18
seb128desrt: really good ;) 09:19
seb128pitti: yeah, I think so09:19
seb128desrt: nice to do something totally different and to enjoy the nice weather for a week ;)09:19
pittiseb128: at least we finally have nice weather here, too :)09:20
seb128now I've to catch up with mails and that's not going to be a lot of fun :p09:20
desrtseb128; lots of launchpad backlog, i'd imagine09:20
desrti just had a friend leave my house.  he's not a hacker, by far09:21
desrtbut he's been using ubuntu for a bit over a year and gentoo before that09:21
desrthe stated something that he has observed --09:21
seb128around 800 bug mails yep09:21
desrtin open source, nobody is really doing integration09:22
seb128and around 400 mails to my debian or ubuntu email (ie: not counting the mailing-list I'm subscribed to)09:22
desrtyou get someone writing gnome power manager, and this other guy writing networkmanager09:22
desrtbut nobody really makes sure that they work together properly09:22
seb128not always true09:22
desrtthe only time people actually do this is when someone notices a problem, files a bug and makes the "other" maintainer aware of the issues09:22
seb128GNOME does try to do integration09:22
desrti don't think we do very much09:22
seb128that's one of the reason why g-p-m didn't get accepted for desktop previous cycle no?09:23
fabbionei'd say it can be done better09:23
desrtthere were a lot of reasons for that09:23
seb128right, it can09:23
desrtg-p-m, wrt the rest of the desktop is pretty much a mess right now09:23
fabbioneour major problem, but also power is that our API's keep changing very very fast09:23
desrtbut so is, say, networkmanager09:23
desrtthey each have these wonderful (and sometimes overlapping) APIs/capabilities _that nobody uses_09:24
desrtfabbione; own any apple laptop hardware?09:24
fabbionedesrt: ?09:24
desrtibook, powerbook, macbook, anything?09:24
fabbionedesrt: i have a PB g4 now...09:25
fabbionethe latest one before Apple become an Intel company09:25
desrtthe power brick came with a little plug that attaches directly to it and also came with a cord09:25
fabbiones/company/reseller09:25
desrtdoes the cord feature a 2 or 3 prong plug?09:25
pittidesrt: still have problems with that? :)09:25
desrtpitti; i want to know if apple sells a 2-prong cord in any country on earth :)09:25
fabbionedesrt: the brick has 2 "holes" so even if the plug has ground, it's totally useless09:26
pittidesrt: yes, here in .de 09:26
desrtpitti; fact of the matter is that 2-prong cords in europe are very universal but not 3-prong is09:26
desrtfabbione; wrong.09:26
fabbionedesrt: but dk has different standards, so i get both the dk one and the eu one09:26
desrtfabbione; the brick has a little metal stud on it that the ground connects to09:26
fabbionedesrt: oh right.. i thought that was just to make it more solid09:26
fabbionedesrt: but well yeah i get both 2 and 3 pins09:27
desrtfabbione; nope.  subtle but functional :)09:27
fabbionethe latter is dk standard09:27
desrtfabbione; you have a 2-pin europlug for your apple brick?!09:27
fabbioneyeps09:27
fabbionewant a pic?09:27
desrtplease.09:27
desrt(just to clarify... we're talking about the cord, not the direct-attachment)09:28
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fabbionedesrt: yeah09:30
fabbionedesrt: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/IMG_3294.JPG09:31
desrt(just to clarify... we're talking about the cord, not the direct-attachment)09:31
fabbionedude09:31
desrt:)09:31
fabbionethe cord has the DK standard09:31
desrt3 prong09:31
fabbione3 pins09:31
desrtBAH09:32
desrtapple, why must you be evil?09:32
desrti think all the cords have 3 pins, alas.09:32
desrtthanks for the pic :)09:32
desrt((are those two pins bent together or is it an optical illusion of the photograph?))09:32
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fabbionedesrt: the latter..09:33
fabbioneactually.. they are bent09:33
=== fabbione fixes
desrt:)09:33
desrti read somewhere that the pins on plugs in europe often converge09:33
desrtbut i'd never seen an example of it before until now09:33
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ivokspitti: fwiw, eggcups compiles and works09:36
desrtk.  bed.09:37
desrtfabbione; thanks again.  nite :)09:37
fabbionedesrt: no problem.. nite09:37
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ispikedfabbione: ping10:26
fabbionepong10:26
ispikedfabbione: was wondering how/when the fix for this bug will get into my dapper system: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682710:26
UbugtuFreedesktop bug 6827 in * Other "[patch]  crash in fb" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]  10:26
fabbioneispiked: no idea. i am not doing X anylonger10:27
ispikedfabbione: :(10:27
ispikedfabbione: who is?10:27
fabbioneprobably infinity10:27
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ispikedinfinity: ping10:28
=== pygi pokes someone who has debian maintainer powers
infinityispiked: ?10:28
ispikedinfinity: see what I asked fabbione.10:28
ispikedinfinity: please. :)10:28
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infinityispiked: Is there a bug in Malone, does it have a sane patch attached, etc, etc?10:32
ispikedinfinity: uhm... dunno. I don't do malone.10:32
infinityispiked: I'm not psychic, and we're certainly not updating dapper with random new upstream releases.10:33
ispikedinfinity: could you at least include the patch?10:33
infinityispiked: Seriously, file an Ubuntu bug.  I will have forgotten that this conversation even happened in about 5 minutes, and I don't have the time right now to evaluate the fix.10:34
Hobbseeoh yeah, and link it to the upstream bug :P10:34
ispikedinfinity: ok. 10:35
ispikedshould it be a "we need to port these changes" bug?10:36
ispikedor a "this is what I'm seeing; it sucks; let's port the upstream patch that fixes it" bug?10:37
crimsun_ispiked: just file a bug, link to the fd.o bugtracker, and sub me10:37
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crimsun_please allow our archive team to move edgy along.10:38
sivangmorning all10:40
sivangZnarl: ping, around?10:41
infinitycrimsun_: Thanks, dude. :/10:41
pygisivang, mornin' :)10:41
sivangmorning pygi , how's it going?10:41
pygigreat, what about you? :)10:41
Mithrandirmako: "meteoronome[r] "?  Not to be confused with metronome.10:41
Hobbseehey sivang 10:41
sivangFine, trying to sort some administrative stuff ;-)10:42
pyginice :)10:42
ispikedinfinity: you would be as annoying as me if you were experiencing this bug.10:42
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seb128pitti: nice that bug #34112 got fixed10:50
UbugtuMalone bug 34112 in libgnomeprint "gnome programs don't respect ~/.cups/lpoptions" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3411210:50
pittiseb128: unfortunately I noticed yesterday that the packages aren't yet built (I mailed infinity already, this needs to be done manually apparently)10:50
pittiseb128: but yes, this one was a PITA :)10:50
seb128the number of dups for it is impressive10:51
pittiseb128: add six or seven more, yesterday I stumbled over another bug with dups which is likely the same10:51
seb128it was already impression without those :p10:52
pygipitti, you have a sec?10:52
pittipygi: hi! yes10:52
pygipitti, you have debian maintainer powers, right? 10:52
pittipygi: yes, I have10:52
pygipitti, nice, any chance you could sponsor one package for me?10:53
pittipygi: depends, which package?10:53
pygithis one: http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=115810:53
pittipygi: just a bug fix, or a completely new one?10:53
pygicompletely new one10:53
pittipygi: oh, it's not in Ubuntu yet either10:54
pygipitti, I know :P10:54
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pittipygi: I don't sponsor sutff without auditing the packaging first, so this will take me a while10:54
pygisame with diva (diva-project.org)10:54
pittipygi: ok, please mail me the URL to source package to mpitt@debian.org10:55
pygioki, as soon as it's ready :)10:55
pygiThanks10:55
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pittipygi: oh, so this replaces serpentine and n-cd-burner?10:56
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pygipitti, what do you mean by "replace" ? 10:56
pittipygi: well, functionality-wise10:56
pygiwell, one of it's functions is to record audio, right :)10:57
pygiand video as well, ofcourse10:58
pygipitti, some stuff like "burning over network" is also there10:59
Lathiatpitti: (not that it matters now, but) should http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-288-4 have listed dovecot-pop3d as well?11:03
pittiLathiat: hm, actually yes; let me fix it, thanks11:03
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pittiLathiat: done11:04
pittiLathiat: does it work now for you?11:04
Lathiatpitti: yeh, i commented on thebug earlier11:04
Lathiatincluding with my original real sql queries11:04
pittigreat11:04
Lathiatnps, thanks for fixing it :)11:05
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slomo_pygi: dia already has an ITP in debian and there already exists a working package... it's only not uploaded yet because diva is not really stable enough for debian yet11:14
slomo_pygi: s/dia/diva/11:14
pygislomo_, It actually isnt uploaded because it require CVS dependencies :P11:14
pygiBut that is change with the 0.0.3 release that we are probably to do this or next week11:14
pygis/is/is going to11:15
slomo_pygi: are you working on it with michael? :)11:16
pygiyup, along with two more people :)11:16
pygihe just merged the gdv branch which doesn't require patching11:18
pygijoy :)11:18
slomo_pygi: cool :) then i bet pitti won't have anything to say against the packaging, it was almost perfect last time i saw it :)11:18
pygislomo_, well, I won't send the package if there's someone already working on it :P11:18
slomo_pygi: i'm not working on it, i was just curious to try it some time ago :)11:19
pygislomo_, I know you are not, but someone obviously is when it's in ITP :P11:19
pygislomo_, is Diva any good? :)11:20
seb128pitti: bug #49192 might be something you want to subscribe to11:20
UbugtuMalone bug 49192 in libgcrypt11 "libgcrypt11 has an executable stack" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4919211:20
slomo_pygi: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=35975311:20
pittiseb128: oh, indeed; bluefoxicy mentioned it yesterday AFAIK11:20
UbugtuDebian bug 359753 in wnpp "Subject: ITP: diva -- Easy to use, scalable video editing software for Gnome." [Wishlist,Open]  11:20
=== pygi looks ;)
pygislomo_, Biebl, right :)11:22
pygislomo_, I thought you were reffering to Michael Dominik, with who I work on Diva :P11:23
pygiBut right, was talking to Michael Biebl as well :P11:23
pygi"I'm currently waiting on diva 0.0.3 which is due the next11:24
pygidays, it's planned for this version to work with an unpatched gstreamer.11:24
pygi So this will be the first version that is uploaded to unstable."11:24
pyginice :)11:24
slomo_pygi: yes :) i wonder whether pitivi or diva is faster in a usuable state ;)11:25
pygislomo_, Diva ofcourse ;)11:25
mjrooh, working with an _unpatched_ gstreamer :] 11:26
pygihow can you wonder such a thing :P11:26
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seaLneanyone else running popcon? i got a user unknown this morning for popcon@ubuntu.com11:27
MithrandirseaLne: you're supposed to be submitting via http.11:27
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seaLneand if you can't because of proxy?11:28
Mithrandirthen we need to fix email submits. :-P11:28
seaLne:)11:28
MithrandirI've been meaning to for a while, but haven't gotten around to it yet.11:28
MithrandirI probably should11:28
kane_what does it take for a bug to get "confirmed" on launchpad ?11:28
seaLneMithrandir: so its been like this for awhile and its only because its me reading mail bounces that i noticed? /me slaps colleagues11:29
seaLnekane_: someone else to be able to reproduce it11:29
MithrandirseaLne: it's been like that for a loooong time.  I've noticed it too, but that doesn't mean I've found time to fix it.11:30
seaLneMithrandir: np11:30
kane_seaLne: well, Scott Robinson and me both have the same problem (I got it on 2 machines) ... so does the bug get confirmed ? and do confirmed bugs get more attention ? (or is it just a state ?)11:30
seaLnekane_: change the state then, confirmed bugs are probably more likely to get looked at11:31
seaLnekane_: dosen't mean unconfirmed get ignored tho11:31
kane_seaLne: how do I change the state ?11:31
kane_seaLne: i just see "edit description" ... but that doesnt change the state ..11:32
kane_seaLne: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/48164/+index11:32
UbugtuMalone bug 48164 in xorg "Video corruption at installation of xserver-xorg" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  11:32
seaLnekane_: click on the package name under the affects column near the top11:32
kane_seaLne: aah ok :)11:33
seaLneno amazingly obvious IMHO :)11:33
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seaLnei think there is an attempt to write a desktop app to talk to LP11:34
kane_seaLne: it isn't assigned to anyone ... does that happen automatically ?11:34
Mithrandirkane_: does it work if you start the installer with debian-installer/framebuffer=false as a boot parameter?11:34
kane_Mithrandir: i havent tried that ... i can try it and report it at the launchpad11:34
Mithrandirkane_: please do.11:34
kane_Mithrandir: ok11:35
seaLnekane_: someone will asign it to themselves (possibly) or just work on it11:35
kane_seaLne: aha ok11:35
seaLnedon't assume its being ignored just because it isn't assigned11:35
kane_seaLne: hehe ... i promise, i won't assume ;)11:39
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janimoMithrandir: do you know if squashfs-lzma is still considered for the future?11:48
Mithrandirjanimo: argh, I knew there was a spec I'd forgotten. :-(11:51
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infinityMithrandir: Assuming it Just Works, it won't need much of a spec.12:30
infinityMithrandir: Of course, if it doesn't...12:30
Mithrandirinfinity: it'll still take me a few days to implement, test and debug.12:32
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dhonnWill new releases of ubuntu 6.06 be named for example ubuntu 6.06 Service Pack 1?01:22
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pitticarlos: BTW, "Replaces:" was specifically meant for updating single files of other packages :)01:28
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fabbionedhonn: there is no such thing as Service Pack01:46
dhonnSerial Key?01:47
dhonnj/p01:47
dhonni mean eventually will have to roll out rehashed updated versions of 6.06 01:47
carlospitti: I didn't finish my NM process, do you remember? ;-)01:48
dhonnwhen there will be tons of updates years later01:48
carlosand seems like I didn't get that concept01:48
pitticarlos: heh, but it was close enough :)01:48
stubLaunchpad will be going down in 15 minutes for its regular code update. Estimated downime is 15 minutes01:50
fabbionedhonn: we haven't decided a name yet.01:50
fabbionedhonn: probably 6.06a/b/c .. but don't quote me on that01:51
dhonnoh not sp101:51
dhonnnot bad01:51
infinityI like 6.06.1, 6.06.2, but I suppose this will be a point of contention and much opinion until someone just picks a scheme and uses it.01:52
fabbioneinfinity: yeah whatever.. .1 .2 is fine with me too01:52
fabbionebut sp1 is so mircosoftish01:52
infinityYeah, I can do without "Service Packs".01:52
dhonnit sounds familiar though does it not01:53
infinityOnly to Windows users.01:53
=== infinity shrugs.
Hobbseeargh.  the idea of callign them service packs makes me cringe.01:54
Hobbseethe first thing i think of w.r.t "service packs" is "how much stuff will get broken as a result of this big and bloated thing"01:54
Hobbseeand that's coming from a not-really-that-long-ago XP user.01:55
dhonnhow about "dapper drake 2"01:55
Hobbseedapper drake update 1?  /me shrugs01:55
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rodarvusmeeting time02:00
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fabbionedhonn: we will look at that when the problem will arise02:02
fabbioneno need to call a doctor before you get ill02:02
dhonni was just reading some ubuntu materials and came across it02:04
zulhey fabbione 02:04
fabbionehey zul02:04
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fabbionelater02:04
zultoodles02:05
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pittiinfinity: did you already get an ok for mysql 5.0.22?02:18
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jbaileypitti: moin, Martin.02:23
pittijbailey: salut02:24
jbaileypitti: Does SSP apply to libraries, or just the master application?02:24
pittijbailey: it applies to libs as well02:24
pittijbailey: it's a per-function modification02:24
jbaileypitti: Ah, 'kay.  I wonder if it's been tested with glibc?   I'd suspect that it has been, given Fedora's work in this area.02:24
pittijbailey: btw, I'm just trying to build various apps with SSP and track the result on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GccSsp02:24
pittijbailey: that was also on my list of things to check :)02:25
jbaileyYes, the WikiMonster kindly emailed me your update. =)02:25
pittioh02:25
=== pitti currently tests php5 and mysql
jbaileyI wasn't sure, though, because all the things you have listed there are apps not libraries.02:25
pittijbailey: but glibc would indeed be interesting, but it has a high potential for breakage, of course02:26
elmodon't fedora enable SSP by default?02:26
jbaileyIt also has a very high likelyhood of upstream caring.02:26
pittijbailey: yes, as a first start I use 'leaf' packages without many rdepends02:26
pittielmo: yes, they do02:26
pittielmo: but they certainly have a blacklist; at least xfree86 doesn't work with it, not sure about x.org02:26
elmopitti: why the enable bitwise approach then for us?02:27
pittielmo: well, just cautiousness; I thought I try a few packages locally before proposing anything :)02:27
pittielmo: and e. g. firefox and postgresql already gave problems (2 out of 7 samples), so I think some field tests are appropriate02:27
elmofailing to build is one thing02:28
pittielmo: as noted in the spec, I think we can play around it in edgy and selectively enable it, and if it works well, use it by default in edgy+1 right from the start02:28
elmoI'd be much more concerned if stuff broke obscurely at run time02:28
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pittielmo: right, the initial packages I picked are those with big test suites, and packages I use myself02:29
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mdkeZnarl: around today?02:32
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shawarmadoes anyone know if Dapper CD's will be available at UDS?02:38
elmomdke: his network at home is down, so probably not02:38
elmoshawarma: yes, they will02:38
shawarmaelmo: Cool. Thanks.02:38
shawarmaelmo: About "the other thing"... We'll just have a chat in Paris, I suppose?02:38
elmoshawarma: yes02:39
shawarmaelmo: Great stuff.02:39
mdkeelmo: ah, ouch. Thanks02:40
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mjg59mdz: Why am I getting notifications for every specification change on the wiki?02:45
ogramjg59, because TB is subscribed to all of them ? 02:46
mjg59ogra: That's a very technical answer to the question02:49
ogra:)02:49
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jbaileymjg59: All signs were that your schoolwork was getting too much attention.  This had to be fixed. ;)02:56
LaserJockheh02:57
zulheh...hey jbailey 02:57
jbaileyHeya Chuck02:58
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ograseb128, would you mind attendint7subscribing to that spec/BOF ? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus03:44
ograwould be great to have someone with more insight attending03:45
seb128ogra: not at all, I've just started reading the list of specs and subscribing to some03:45
ogracool ! :)03:45
seb128ogra: that looks like a "use sabayon and do a profile by class of user" case03:47
ograseb128, sabayon is broken ...03:48
ograat least for ltsp03:48
ograadditionally we thought that enhancing the sudo stuff in the menus should be possible ...03:48
seb128not really scalable03:48
ograso .desktop files could get another category field 03:49
seb128it would force to edit every .desktop03:49
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LaserJockseb128: heh, give it do bddebian, he'll fix 'em up ;-)03:55
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seb128LaserJock: I don't want somebody to create extra divergence from upstream or Debian for that03:55
ograyeah, lets see what we can come up with in the BOF ...03:56
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bddebianHowdy04:02
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mvoKeybuk: what is the policy to get a spec from "Informational" back to "normal" (langpack-on-cd spec)? Can I just set it back myself if I feel I have adressed the comments?04:13
ogramvo, there is a way to switch it back ? 04:14
Keybukmvo: the summary in LP still hasn't changed04:14
Keybukthere's no scope to the spec, it doesn't list source packages that need changing, etc.04:15
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Keybukit reads as "this is something we should do" (informational) not "this is how we should do this"04:16
mvoogra: yes, in "Edit details"04:17
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=== mvo updates again
ogramvo, i meant rather "there is a way to get switching back approved ?" 04:18
looksaushi, I'm trying to use launchpad's malone as a bug tracking system for a project04:18
looksaushow exactly do I enable that?04:18
jbaileylooksaus: Best to try #launchpad04:18
Lathiatlooksaus: try #laucnhpad04:18
Lathiaterr, #launchpad, or what jbailey said :)04:18
looksausok, thx04:18
jbaileyLathiat: It's like #laucnhpad, but different ;)04:19
LaserJockI thought it was lunchpad ;-)04:19
Lathiathehe04:19
looksaushm, I tried #daphcnual , just like you said, but noone answers there :p04:20
looksausno, sorry, should let you work04:20
looksausthx for your great work on ubuntu!04:20
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pittiRiddell: do you run dapper or edgy? if dapper, can you please dist-upgrade to today's daily dapper langpacks and tell me about any problem?04:20
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sivangre all04:23
sivangis there a SoC to make pptp connection establishment (ADSL/Cable) ootb operational ?04:23
infinitypitti: No, I'll get on that when I wake up tomorrow and push the upload when it's okayed (I want to pull an RC packaging fix from sid while I'm at it)04:23
bddebianHeya sivang04:23
bddebianjbailey!  Wow :-)04:23
jbaileybddebian: Hmm?04:24
pittiinfinity: I mean, did mdz approve it UVF-wise?04:24
bddebianjbailey: Just a hello and nice to see you :-)04:24
infinitypitti: No, that was the "I'll get on it" bit (as in, I'll okay it with him, etc)04:24
pittiah, thanks04:24
infinityI should get off to bed so I can wake up early enough to catch mdz in the morning.04:25
jbaileybddebian: Ah, and hello to you too.04:25
hungerHow is the toolchain comming along?04:25
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Riddellpitti: dapper, upgrading04:26
Riddellpitti: is deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/ ./  right?04:30
pittiRiddell: correct04:30
pittioh, no04:30
pittiRiddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/dapper-updates ./04:30
pittiRiddell: since we also have {hoary,breezy}-updates now04:30
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Riddellpitti: bengali and english both working fine in daily/dapper-updates04:38
pittiRiddell: great, thank you04:38
Riddellinfinity: can you set qt-x11-free/3:3.3.6-1ubuntu6 to compile?04:39
Riddellinfinity: and kubuntu-default-settings/1:6.06-2204:39
infinityRiddell: Those are both in -updates?04:41
infinityRiddell: -updates will be back on full-auto tomorrow.  I'll make sure they get through.04:41
Riddellinfinity: yes, both in dapper-updates04:41
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wasabi_lvm2 package. lvm2.preinst. Appears to 'exit 1' if the kernel version is less than 2.6.12?04:53
wasabi_Sort of breaks upgrades.04:53
wasabi_Hoary->Dapper upgrade issue, basically.04:54
ograthats unsupported anyway iirc04:54
infinityWe don't support hoary->dapper direct.04:54
infinityAnd "breaks upgrades" isn't really the term you're looking for.  You want "halts uprades until you install a newer kernel, reboot, and re-run the upgrade".04:55
wasabi_Yeah. ;)04:55
pygijdub, poke? :)05:01
desrtBenC; ping05:04
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BenCdesrt: pong05:04
desrtBenC; can you please edit hid-core.c and go down to the powerbook Fn device ID quirks list05:05
desrti just got an email from a guy05:06
desrtas it turns out, 0x217 is the ID only for the white macbook keyboards05:06
desrtthe black models have id 0x21805:06
desrtso i imagine just copy the 0x217 line and add a 21805:07
BenCso add 218?05:07
thomcrack!05:07
desrtya05:07
ograthere are black macbooks ?05:07
desrtyup.05:07
desrtthey cost $200 more than the white ones05:07
desrtfor no obvious reason05:07
ograyou dont have to clean them as often :)05:08
desrtfair05:08
desrtbut i wash my hands pretty frequently05:08
desrtso my white one stays pretty clean05:08
thomthey're trying to convince people they're as cool as thinkpads ;-005:08
desrtthey look cool and all05:09
desrtbut they're matte finish05:09
mgalvina sleek black case makes it faster ;)05:09
jjesseespecially if you paint flames on it05:09
desrtif you want a matte black laptop (instead of shiny white) then why not just buy a PC?05:09
jjesseflames always speed things up05:09
mgalvinhehe :)05:10
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jonohey ho05:17
jonoKeybuk, ping05:17
Keybukjono: heyhey05:17
jonoKeybuk, I need a talk title from you for LRL0605:17
jonoand not, Scott James Remnant r0x0r05:17
Keybuk"Edgy"05:17
jonocool05:18
bddebianI like SJR r0xx0rz ! :)05:18
thombddebian: but it's lies!05:19
bddebianthom: sshhh, I'm trying to kiss ass ;-)05:19
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jonoheh05:21
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jonoKeybuk has been upgraded from "mic boy" at LRL05 to "speaker" :)05:27
Keybukpun intended?05:27
jonoeh?>05:29
Keybuk"microphone" to "speaker"05:29
jonooh, heh05:29
jononot intended, but ahha!05:30
Keybukbut yeah, edgy is going to be my topic05:30
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Keybukall the shiny things to come05:30
Keybukor all the bad things05:30
Keybukbtw, is it lug tonight or next week?05:31
jonoKeybuk, next week, although I won't be there05:31
Keybukme neither05:31
Keybuk(Paris)05:31
jonoahhh cool05:32
jonoKeybuk, you at guadec this year?05:32
sfllawCan someone add ubuntu-qa as a member to ubuntu-bugs?05:32
Keybukjono: when is guadec this year?05:33
Keybuk(that probably counts as a "no")05:33
sfllawI think bradb pushed a change in access restrictions.05:33
jonoKeybuk, heh05:33
jonocan't remember, in a week or so05:33
jonomaybe two weeks05:33
Keybuklol05:34
Keybukprobably not then05:34
Keybukwhere is it?05:34
sfllawKeybuk: Could you help?  You're on the TB.05:37
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Keybuksfllaw: err, what is it that you want?05:38
Keybuktry that05:38
sfllawKeybuk: Merci bien!05:39
highvoltagesfllaw: you've been learning french too? ;)05:40
Keybukpas problem05:40
mgalvinsfllaw: ping?05:40
sfllawmgalvin: Pong.05:40
mgalvinhowdy05:40
sfllawmgalvin: How can I help you?05:41
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mgalvinsfllaw: i don't always have time to hang around for the meetings, what type of bug reports do you give that might be useful for UWN?05:41
sfllawmgalvin: I just give a brief overview of stats.05:42
jdong|coreduosfllaw: like what gentoo weekly news does?05:42
sfllawSadly, LP doesn't give those to us right now.05:42
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mgalvinsfllaw: would it be possible for you to file me in as well each week?05:42
sfllawjdong|coreduo: Hmm.  Basically.05:42
mgalvinor possible just add the notes yourself if you wish05:43
jdong|coreduoalright, interesting idea05:43
jdong|coreduothough that might look depressing right now!05:43
sfllawmgalvin: If you ping me, then I surely will.  Or if you grep for my name in the irclogs for the dev meeting.05:43
sfllawIt is depressing.05:43
mgalvinjdong|coreduo: +1 to announcing -backports updates in UWN05:43
mgalvinsfllaw: ok cool, thanks05:44
jdong|coreduomgalvin: cool :)05:44
jdong|coreduogreat job on the newsletter, btw. I really appreciate it05:44
mgalvinthanks, glad to work on it :)05:44
jdong|coreduomgalvin: how about a little status update or something on edgy development status?05:46
mgalvinfor sure...05:46
jdong|coreduobackports requesters have been wondering where all the updated packages are, and I don't have an answer to that :)05:46
mgalvinUWN will cover all kinds of edgy stuff05:46
mgalvinwhich packages?, just for backports?05:47
jdong|coreduowell, just new upstream versions in Edgy in general05:48
jdong|coreduothere hasn't been much in that regard05:48
mgalvinb/c the dapper-updates are manual atm, and edgy is having its toolchain fixed05:48
jdong|coreduook, toolchain fixed, I see05:48
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jdong|coreduothat was the explanation I was looking for05:48
mgalvinonce the toolchain and X are working in edgy, the flood gates will open05:48
mgalvincool :)05:49
jdong|coreduolol, then my fun starts :)05:49
mgalvin:_05:49
mgalvin:)05:49
jpatrickheno: ping05:50
henojpatrick: hi05:50
jpatrickheno: I'm wondering about the host, how do we set up the site?05:51
desrtso uhm.  neat story05:51
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desrtthe tech support page on ubuntu.com says "if you're very new to ubuntu, go applications->internet->xchat"05:52
desrtxchat is no longer part of the default install05:52
jdong|coreduohah, someone forgot to update the site to reflect Dapper :)05:52
desrtthat would appear to be the case.05:53
desrtwhat would be nice is a javascript/forms-based web irc client (obviously no flash or java) that takes users directly to #ubuntu05:54
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jdong|coreduothat would be cool05:54
jdong|coreduowonder if AJAX can do irc05:54
desrti've seen it pre-"ajax"05:54
jdong|coreduoI've seen chat apps done in ASP.NET before ajax05:55
jdong|coreduoso it's definitely possible05:55
jdong|coreduothen again, asp.net was kind of "magical" in that respect...05:55
desrthttp://webchat.xs4all.nl/cgi-bin/ircnet/irc.cgi05:55
desrtsomething like this05:55
desrtit's not bad05:55
_ionAFAIK it isn't possible to connect to an arbitrary service using plain ECMAscript. One would need a HTTP wrapper even if she used BORAX.05:56
desrtion; the webserver does the connection for you05:57
_ionChatZilla uses Mozilla's internal API (which isn't available for BORAX) to connect to IRC.05:57
desrtion; and you interact with the webesrver05:57
_ionYes, in that case BORAX doesn't "do IRC".05:57
_ionOr at least i consider it that way.05:57
_ionThe web application "does IRC", and BORAX is just a method of doing things in the UI.05:58
desrtis borax some other word for ajax?05:58
ograsounds like a poison 05:58
desrtsounds like a cleaning agent05:58
jdong|coreduodesrt: both do :)05:59
jdong|coreduoborax is fun as a cleaning agent05:59
_ionAjax and Borax are cleaners. I use the term somewhat humorously instead of AJAX because i hate the term "AJAX". :-)05:59
_ionFor instance, AJAX doesn't really have anything to do with XML.05:59
jdong|coreduoever put glue in a borax solution before?05:59
jdong|coreduolol05:59
_ionXML _might_ be used with AJAX, but the programmer might choose e.g. plain text or JSON instead.06:00
desrtajax is like web 2.006:00
desrtit doesn't actually exist06:00
=== _ion is already using Web 3.0
desrti'm glad that everyone has realised that web2.0 is a joke :)06:00
=== desrt was seriously starting to get concerned there
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Jhair[I've sent this to #ubuntu too, sorry for the duplicates]  Changelog for recent mozilla security update is not accessible from aptitude (see http://mandala.no-ip.info/~jtocancipa/mozilla_changelog_aptitude.jpg). Are in general Changelogs for security updates accessible through aptitude?06:10
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kagouhey seb128 :) hi everybody06:14
seb128lu kagou06:14
desrtJhair; i've never known a changelog to be accessible :p06:21
ogradesrt, thats because youre not in the a11y team ;P06:24
desrtogra; not that sort of acccessible :p06:25
ograthe others are at changelogs.ubuntu.com :)06:25
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BenC2.6.17-1.1 is showing up in lp now, but everything is listed as Needs Build06:48
BenCif I upload -2.2, will it supercede -1.1, leaving it unbuilt?06:49
BenCthis is edgy kernel06:49
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seb128do other people have the option to change a bug importance?06:53
diemandont think so06:54
seb128is there some team membership required for that?06:54
diemani can't at least06:54
diemanim guessing o06:54
diemanso06:54
seb128ok, thank you06:54
seb128anybody from the distro team? :)06:54
seb128pitti, mvo?06:54
pittiseb128: no idea, sorry06:56
seb128pitti: open any bug, click on the task, look if you can ...? :)06:56
pittiseb128: oh, you mean ubuntu-core-dev members :)06:57
seb128it's displayed as a label here, it used to be a list of options to pick06:57
seb128pitti: as said, I've no idea if a team membership is required06:57
pittiseb128: no, I can't06:57
seb128I'm trying to understand why I'm not authorized to set bug importance :p06:57
pittiseb128: might be due to today's LP rollout06:57
seb128ok, so I'm not alone, good ;)06:57
seb128I'll go ping #launchpad guys then06:57
mvoseb128: hello06:57
seb128mvo: that's fine, thank you ;)06:58
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chantracan someone tell me why a package didn't make its way through revu.tauware pls07:03
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ograchantra, wrong channel07:04
chantraogra: #ubuntu-motu?07:05
ograyep07:05
chantraokie, sorry for the troubles ;)07:05
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Riddellinfinity: what's happening with qt in dapper-updates?07:14
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LaserJockdoko: ping?08:02
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mdzdoko: do we still need gcj-4.1?08:33
mdzdoko: I thought the only reason was to get gcj 4.1 in main while gcc-4.1 stayed in universe08:33
mjg59mdz: Is there any way that I can stop getting updates every time a spec is edited in the wiki?08:34
mdzmjg59: procmail?08:34
mdzI'm not particularly keen on that feature myself08:35
mdzmjg59: (discussing on #launchpad)08:35
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Keybukmdz: did you approve seb's upload of gnome-doc-utils?09:10
Keybuk(or is it granted under gnome +1)09:11
Keybuklikewise pango-1.009:11
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Tonio_'evening09:18
Tonio_lodlu09:18
bddebianHeya Tonio_09:18
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Tonio_hey bddebian09:18
mdzKeybuk: if they're part of the gnome point release, yes09:21
bddebianDamnit, how can I test interdependent packages locally?09:21
Keybukmdz: I have a hard job telling what is and isn't part of a gnome point release09:22
Keybukhmm09:22
Keybukthe version of pango he uploaded _is_ in ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/platform/2.14/2.14.2/sources/09:23
Keybukbut the version of gnome-doc-utils he uploaded is newer09:23
mdzKeybuk: is the changelog enlightening?09:24
Keybukmdz: translation fixes it appears09:25
Keybuk   * New upstream version:09:25
Keybuk     - Fixed plurals for fr, wa, nso; bug #33864109:25
Keybuk     - Updated translations:09:25
Keybuk(list of languages)09:25
mdzif it's only translations, those were blanket accepted09:25
Keybukok, I'll accept both of those then09:26
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m0Zzghttp://linuxff.org.ru09:26
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_ionA spambot.09:26
Keybukhe used the wrong colours09:27
Keybukhttp://launchpad.net/09:27
Keybukthat's what he should have done :p09:28
diemanrock, got my own archive setup and changed the key in the installer so i can get my own copy of base-passwd in the debootstrap09:29
diemanso many contortions for crazily allocated uid's09:29
dieman(on my end for the crazy uids, not ubuntu)09:29
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ProN00bdoes ubuntu set any iptables by default ?10:02
sladenProN00b: no and -> #ubuntu please10:02
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ProN00bsladen, i already asked there, no answer, there are only like users in there, they don't know shit or get distracted by the mass spam and don't bother to answer10:05
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rpedrohello10:08
FjodorProN00b: I think the message was "you're offtopic in here, so don't ask. It's #ubuntu or elsewhere, not here"10:08
ProN00bFjodor, i got that message, but thats not an answer10:09
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KeybukProN00b: this is not a support channel.  it does not become a support channel if you are unable to find the answer elsewhere either10:10
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rpedrofound a problem with the xubuntu .jigdo file at cdimage.ubuntu.com10:11
ProN00bi am not asking for support but only for an answer to an yes/no question10:11
tsengthat falls under the "support" umbrella10:11
=== pygi nods
tsengand arguing it doesnt help10:12
rpedroI had to modified it , otherwise it wont find the .template file :-/10:12
thomProN00b: and sladen already said "no" anyway10:12
ProN00bno, it doesn't, tseng, so stop it ! ^^10:12
ProN00bthom, oh, yeah, thanks for notifying me10:13
tsengthanks for paying attention10:13
tsengthom: should we put mongrel in edgy? :)10:14
thomdefinitely mate10:14
thomi'm on the currentest pre-release and it works really well10:14
tsengi am seeing more people using it now10:14
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thomyep yep10:15
thomhrm, pub10:15
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Kaloz.oO(who had that braindead idea to ship hostap without firmware upgrade support?)10:30
cyanescentDoes anyone "get" launchpad10:32
Keybukcyanescent: ?10:37
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cyanescentKeybuk: can't add any feature specs on the ubuntu-art page10:37
Keybuk"the ubuntu-art page" ?10:38
KeybukURLs would help at this point10:38
cyanescentkeybuk: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs10:38
Keybukthat's because ubuntu-art is a person10:38
Keybukyou can't file a spec against a person10:38
cyanescentor am I being lame ?10:38
Keybukhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs10:38
cyanescentok so I login, and click on my name10:39
cyanescentbut I still can't add any10:39
cyanescent+ add myself to the list ;/10:39
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Keybukwhy did you click your name?10:40
Keybuklogin, then from the /distros/ubuntu/+specs page, you can click "+ New Specification"10:40
Keybukor you can click a spec and subscribe to it10:40
cyanescentwell, I thought it might do something interesting10:40
cyanescentoh10:40
cyanescentk10:40
cyanescentbut then its listed with non-relevant stuff 10:42
cyanescentok thanks that now appears10:48
cyanescenthmm... a little steep the learning curve on this proggy10:48
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evilrabbii need help11:01
evilrabbixine wont install and i cant look at my porn11:01
mdkeevilrabbi: #ubuntu11:02
evilrabbiHWY11:02
evilrabbik11:02
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evilrabbiis it true that ubuntu developers are pedos ?11:02
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=== bddebian wonders what a pedo is but doesn't want to feed the troll
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_ionevilrabbi: You really have to work on your troll routine.11:02
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evilrabbibddebian pedophile11:03
_ionevilrabbi: I have seen some good trolls; frankly you're not one of them.11:03
mdke_ion: no need to talk to it11:03
evilrabbiin other words ubuntu is a way for them to trick kids in to /msging them for "help"11:03
_ionmdke: Yeah, i'll ignore it from now on.11:03
evilrabbi_ion was on mdke was on "To Catch A Predator"11:04
evilrabbihe was chasing a cat around naked11:04
mdkeKeybuk: if you're still around11:04
Keybukmdke: I am11:04
Keybuk?11:05
Keybukoh ^11:05
mdkecan you bitchslap this guy11:05
evilrabbi=(11:05
evilrabbii'm not 1011:05
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evilrabbi=(11:05
=== evilrabbi hugs Keybuk
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=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [+b *!*evilrabb@*.onlineok.com] by Keybuk
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=== Keybuk glares at mdz
KeybukSTOP FILLING UP MY INBOX!11:41
=== mdz hands the concept of mail filtering to Keybuk
bddebianheh11:42
Keybukmdz: I do filter e-mail11:42
KeybukLaunchpad just defeats that by sending everything to one address11:43
KeybukI'm clearly going to have to make a special case for wiki changes11:43
mdzI already filter wiki changes to a separate folder11:44
bluefoxicy<3 thunderbird filters11:45
SeveasKeybuk, doesn't blueprint add nice flterable headers?11:46
KeybukSeveas: no, they're just x-generated-by: launchpad ones11:46
Seveasbah11:46
Seveasfile a bug 11:46
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