[12:02] <Keybuk> IGNORING YOUR OWN DEADLINES, EH?! :)
[12:03] <mdz> yes, low priority
[12:03] <jmg> :-)
[12:03] <mdz> Keybuk: besides, the point of the deadline was to give us a chance to look over what we have without it changing all the time
[12:03] <Keybuk> hehe
[12:03] <Keybuk> I know
[12:04] <mdz> sabdfl: speaking of which, in case you're behind on mail, please don't accept any new stuff for paris for a bit; we're sorting through what we have
[12:04] <mdz> sabdfl: and Keybuk and I are borrowing #ubuntu-meeting to coordinate that effort
[12:07] <mdz> BenC: see my last comment on bug 43531, would like to hear back while I'm working on the agenda for paris
[12:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43531 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Kernel isn't very useful without a boot loader, but doesn't depend on one" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43531
[12:07] <BenC> mdz: Ok
[12:08] <mdz> BenC: I think there's probably stuff to talk about since the installer is involved
[12:09] <sabdfl> mdz: i'm not accepting anything for paris for fear of being accused of setting edgy goals ;-)
[12:09] <sabdfl> so far, so good
[12:10] <Keybuk> sabdfl: does blueprint automatically set things to accepted?
[12:10] <sabdfl> Keybuk: if you would have the right to accept it
[12:10] <sabdfl> so, if a member of ubuntu-drivers nominates a spec, it will be accepted
[12:10] <Keybuk> ah, so if anyone on ubuntu-drivers proposes a spec, it goes straight to accepted without collecting 200$ ?
[12:11] <sabdfl> btw, ubuntu-drivers should not include core dev, if it still does
[12:11] <sabdfl> the drivers really should be drivers
[12:11] <sabdfl> can i fix that now?
[12:12] <BenC> mdz: No sure if we need a talk, but if we make it low-priority, we can pick up discussion if there's time
[12:12] <BenC> mdz: Just added my comment to the bug
[12:12] <mdz> sabdfl: only if you fix "faster pussycat, kill kill kill" while you're there
[12:12] <sabdfl> mdz?
[12:12] <mdz> sabdfl: top of https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-drivers
[12:13] <sabdfl> wow
[12:13] <sabdfl> no idea where that came from
[12:13] <sabdfl> very non-CoC
[12:13] <mdz> sabdfl: h4x0rz
[12:13] <Keybuk> sabdfl: you're the only person who can edit that
[12:13] <Keybuk> did someone hack you with alcohol?
[12:13] <sivang> was this text added intentionally ? :p
[12:14] <pygi> hey hey simira 
[12:14] <pygi> erggh, sivang*
[12:14] <sabdfl> weird
[12:14] <sabdfl> i can't see where to edit that text
[12:14] <Keybuk> it's probably the team's homepage
[12:15] <sabdfl> right - done
[12:16] <sabdfl> this page is seriously lacking a nice title/context
[12:16] <mdz> sabdfl: do we really need ubuntu-drivers at all?  shouldn't that just be TB?
[12:16] <mdz> it's basically TB + people who were added because they were helping with the schedule at UBZ
[12:16] <sabdfl> mdz: useful to be able to add people here when its needed without affecting TB
[12:17] <sabdfl> i'll take the janes off the list
[12:17] <Keybuk> should the TB be the owner/administrator?
[12:17] <sabdfl> can do, too
[12:17] <mdz> that'd be slightly less cabalistic
[12:18] <sabdfl> done
[12:18] <mdz> sabdfl: my basic rule of thumb for accepting things for the paris agenda is that one of the attendees is interested
[12:19] <mdz> sabdfl: maybe for the next one we could have LP do that calculation for us?
[12:20] <sabdfl> mdz: could do... but we could also just show the people (or the number of people) associated with it that are also registered for the sprint, on the accept/decline page
[12:20] <mdz> I have a list of spec tracker ideas and needs resulting from working with it a bunch recently
[12:20] <sabdfl> so its still a manual process, just better informed
[12:20] <mdz> sabdfl: that's what I was suggesting
[12:20] <sabdfl> mdz: cool, suggestions welcome
[12:20] <mdz> that gives us a chance to scare up some interest about it
[12:21] <sabdfl> main thing on my todo is to move everything to blueprint.launchpad.net/ so you stay in a specs view while jumping from upstream to the distro and to people
[12:21] <mdz> though when it's proposed, LP should probably say "there's no one attending the sprint who's interested in it; it's unlikely to be accepted unless someone signs up to talk about it"
[12:21] <mdz> sabdfl: my stuff is so much more useful than that though ;-)
[12:21] <sabdfl> we should also ask people to note their attendance in LP rather than the wiki
[12:22] <sivang> mdz , sabdfl : maybe "My interest in this spec is [1.....x.10] " tick box for sub'ers ?
[12:22] <sabdfl> mdz: useful to... you?
[12:22] <sabdfl> ;-)
[12:22] <sivang> sort of a poll style..
[12:22] <sabdfl> i primarily want to use blueprint to lead the other apps
[12:22] <mdz> sabdfl: correct
[12:22] <mdz> me being someone who uses the spec tracker a lot ;-)
[12:23] <mdz> Keybuk: why are you trying to join motu?
[12:23] <sivang> hehe
[12:23] <Keybuk> mdz: s/motu/core-dev/ ... was just testing something and needed a team where it was a no-op to join
[12:24] <Keybuk> ie. one I was already a member of by inferance
[12:24] <BenC> I've been deactivated from Ubuntu Drivers!
[12:24] <mdz> Keybuk: why is mjg59 whining about the mailbombing when he was supposed to go to sleep?
[12:24] <sabdfl> BenC: we took the u-core-dev team out of drivers
[12:25] <Keybuk> sabdfl: bug!  I got a mail saying I was deactived from Ubuntu Drivers ... yet I'm still a member via a different team
[12:25] <BenC> it's ok, I'm on too many teams as it is :)
[12:25] <sabdfl> Keybuk: file it, assign to salgado
[12:25] <Keybuk> mdz: because the tech-board is marked as an approved for all the specs ... so his mail box is full of e-mail about every change we made :p
[12:25] <sabdfl> Keybuk: good catch ;-)
[12:25] <mdz> Keybuk: but he said he was going to sleep before we did that
[12:25] <sabdfl> Keybuk: why did you mark the tech-board an approver?
[12:25] <Keybuk> mdz: he woke up again
[12:25] <mdz> Keybuk: that was his excuse for ditching out on the discussion
[12:25] <mdz> I see
[12:25] <Keybuk> sabdfl: so we'd get e-mail about all the changes
[12:26] <mdz> mjg59: you're not coming to paris?
[12:26] <sabdfl> hmm... reduces the value of the approver slot, though
[12:26] <mjg59> mdz: Correct
[12:26] <mjg59> (And I'm supposed to be sleeping, damnit)
[12:26] <sabdfl> Keybuk: the scheduler will try to make sure the approver is in an early discussion session, to get things off on the right foot
[12:26] <sabdfl> for edgy, since specs are sort of "self lead", folks will generally want to be their own approvers
[12:27] <Keybuk> sabdfl: right, the theory is to change that before the meeting when we assign real approvers
[12:27] <sabdfl> ok
[12:27] <sabdfl> jus' checkin'
[12:27] <sabdfl> night all. morning mjg59.
[12:27] <mdz> Keybuk: they all start as tech board and will get delegated from there as appropriate
[12:27] <Keybuk> mjg59: why aren't you coming? :(
[12:28] <mdz> but I appreciate getting mail about the changes
[12:28] <mdz> mjg59: yeah, shame on you
[12:28] <mjg59> Keybuk: Work
[12:28] <Keybuk> 135 specs ?!
[12:28] <Keybuk> they're going up!
[12:28] <mdz> I didn't add one
[12:29] <mdz> not since the one I admitted to
[12:29] <Keybuk> drive-backports ?
[12:29] <Keybuk> uh, driver-backports
[12:29] <mdz> that's the one
[12:30] <Keybuk> hmm, then another one got added between me counting 133 and sabdfl counting 134
[12:30] <sabdfl> aiiieee... it's too many, we'll need to do good prioritisation, try give everyone at least one essential, a couple of high, etc
[12:30] <Keybuk> stat: if each spec requires 3 sessions, and we have 6 sessions a day ... then we need 14 concurrent sessions to fit them all in
[12:31] <sabdfl> good specs require 6-9 sessions, from experience
[12:31] <sabdfl> edgy might be less, since it's self-inspired
[12:31] <sabdfl> the guy writing it up is the guy who dreamed it up, in more cases
[12:31] <sabdfl> so mostly, he gets to call for comments and feedback, and check interactions with other devs
[12:31] <sabdfl> but still
[12:32] <sabdfl> we could easily end up with lots of half-done or badly-done specs, if we try take on too much
[12:32] <sabdfl> it's a very tight cycle
[12:32] <sabdfl> mdz: do you want to ask guys to estimate dev time, for specs they are dreaming up?
[12:33] <mdz> sabdfl: I don't think we can reasonably expect that until the spec is fleshed out
[12:33] <Keybuk> ah, #134 was ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration
[12:33] <sabdfl> ok, night all, really
[12:40] <bluefoxicy> ah, good.
[12:47] <HiddenWolf> bluefoxicy: osnews/osdir has them for you.
[01:01] <sivang> Keybuk: I'm actually erroring at trying to understand the meaning of the software appliance term, they were not using it a year a go IIRC
[01:01] <Keybuk> "our primary business plan failed, here's plan B"
[01:02] <sivang> hehe 
[01:02] <sivang> anyway, I'm way past my bed time. laters all, night Keybuk 
[01:04] <neuralis> mako: ping
[01:06] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  I'm just picking up major highlights on the install process.  I'm planning on boot screen, live desktop, live desktop + firefox, install (with a GNU/FreeDOS partition resize), booting (skip G/FD in grub), and at the desktop.
[01:07] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: hmm?
[01:07] <bluefoxicy> er.
[01:07] <bluefoxicy> I meant HiddenWolf
[01:07] <Keybuk> did you mean HiddenWolf ? :)
[01:08] <bluefoxicy> I mean the keys are practically the same
[01:08] <bluefoxicy> Key<tab>, Hid<tab>, you know.
[01:08] <HiddenWolf> bluefoxicy: ah, ok.
[01:11] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: yes, I can see that
[02:09] <bddebian> Heya
[02:09] <LaserJock> anybody know what the default debconf interface is, Dialog?
[02:09] <LaserJock> and do individual package managers (like synaptic) override that?
[02:22] <LaserJock> infinity: ping?
[02:55] <Keybuk> ajmitch: my approach for that is to do rm -rf *; tar xf ../new-tar.tar.gz --strip-components=1
[02:55] <Keybuk> bzr add
[02:55] <Keybuk> (bzr notices the removed files automatically)
[02:55] <ajmitch> right
[02:55] <Keybuk> basically the same as "moving the .bzr" yes
[02:56] <Keybuk> it does work particularly well
[02:56] <ajmitch> so far most of mine just have debian/ in bzr
[02:56] <ajmitch> I did experiment awhile with keeping various branches, including upstream, around also
[02:57] <Keybuk> I've not really been enamoured about debian/ in bzr
[02:57] <Keybuk> it's handy for collaboration though I guess
[02:58] <ajmitch> I didn't really have useful tools for getting all the patch branches together, keeping everything in sync
[02:58] <ajmitch> it seemed like more work for less gain
[02:58] <Keybuk> I decided to drop debian/patches entirely
[02:59] <Keybuk> "emulating revision control" again
[02:59] <Keybuk> so I have a "release branch"/"integration branch" which I make releases from
[02:59] <sladen> Keybuk: how do you cope with rediffing your changes against a fresh upstream?
[02:59] <Keybuk> and I do feature work on separate branches (the old patches)
[02:59] <Keybuk> sladen: I have an excellent example right here
[02:59] <Keybuk> $ cd upstream
[02:59] <Keybuk> $ rm -rf *
[02:59] <Keybuk> $ tar xf ../udev-094.tar.gz --strip-components=1
[03:00] <Keybuk> $ bzr add
[03:00] <Keybuk> $ bzr commit -m "import udev 094"
[03:00] <Keybuk> $ cd ../ubuntu
[03:00] <Keybuk> $ bzr merge ../upstream
[03:00] <Keybuk> (no conflicts this time)
[03:00] <Keybuk> $ bzr commit -m "update to udev 094"
[03:00] <Keybuk> $ uch -v094-0ubuntu1
[03:00] <Keybuk> $ dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S
[03:00] <sladen> I see
[03:01] <Keybuk> (the top lot is just one shell script I have, btw)
[03:01] <Keybuk> so I really just do
[03:01] <sladen> and presumely if launchpad is automatically pulling in upstream into bzr then the above means you can just merge from the launchpad copy
[03:02] <Keybuk> ubuntu$ new-upstream ../udev-094.tar.gz
[03:02] <Keybuk> sladen: exactly
[03:02] <ajmitch> sladen: harder when there's no tags 
[03:02] <Keybuk> importd
[03:02] <Keybuk> ajmitch: just create branches where you would have created tags
[03:02] <Keybuk> main$ bzr push sftp://ajmitch@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ajmitch/foo/TAG
[03:03] <ajmitch> sure, I mean that launchpad doesn't have any tags or similar on the imported products
[03:03] <Keybuk> launchpad doesn't really _do_ imported products yet
[03:03] <ajmitch> it has the 0.1 branch of f-spot, for example
[03:03] <ajmitch> right
[03:03] <Keybuk> it's still alpha code
[03:05] <ajmitch> once all the relevant upstream products are imported, it will be quite useful
[03:05] <sladen> Keybuk: so once it's in that state, what's the easiest way of backing out individual patches that were applied several revisions back
[03:08] <Keybuk> sladen: well, what I do for patches is
[03:08] <Keybuk> (creating one)
[03:08] <Keybuk> $ cp upstream ubuntu.iftab
[03:08] <Keybuk> $ cd ubuntu.iftab
[03:08] <Keybuk> $ vi ...
[03:08] <Keybuk> $ bzr commit
[03:08] <Keybuk> $ cd ../ubuntu
[03:08] <Keybuk> $ bzr merge ../ubuntu.iftab
[03:08] <Keybuk> $ bzr commit -m "merge iftab patch"
[03:09] <jmg> was there a UTB meeting this morning?
[03:09] <Keybuk> so that's a patch _in_
[03:09] <Keybuk> to update the patch is
[03:09] <Keybuk> $ cd ../ubuntu.iftab
[03:09] <Keybuk> $ bzr pull ../upstream
[03:09] <Keybuk> (or merge)
[03:09] <Keybuk> so the patch is actually based on upstream
[03:09] <Keybuk> to back out the patch is easy
[03:09] <jmg> hmm
[03:10] <Keybuk> $ bzr merge -r $(bzr revno ../ubuntu.iftab)..1 ../ubuntu.iftab
[03:10] <Keybuk> (ie merge it in reverse)
[03:10] <Keybuk> jmg: there was an extraordinary meeting of the Ubuntu Technical Board to discuss spec priorities -- the ordinary meeting was last week and will be again next week
[03:11] <jmg> Keybuk: ah ok, yes some of my specs were accepted
[03:11] <Keybuk> were some declined?
[03:11] <jmg> Keybuk: but there are no logs online yet
[03:11] <Keybuk> the log should in the usual ubuntu-meeting irclogs place
[03:11] <jmg> Keybuk: no
[03:12] <Keybuk> it's not very interesting reading
[03:12] <jmg> Keybuk: hasnt shown up yet
[03:14] <ajmitch> jmg: still doing the job hunt? :)
[03:15] <jmg> ajmitch: interview tomorrow, phone interview this afternoon
[03:15] <jmg> ajmitch: i've been relaxing :)
[03:15] <ajmitch> heh, good
[03:15] <ajmitch> potential job might still be using ubuntu?
[03:16] <jmg> debian
[03:16] <jmg> i'll convince them to switch to ubuntu-server :)
[03:17] <jmg> i think they would like to have an ubuntu contributor on board, even if he isnt a warthog
[03:17] <jmg> yet :)
[03:18] <jmg> this meeting is confusing
[03:19] <Keybuk> which meeting?
[03:21] <sladen> Keybuk: so this means that you have to keep each of that branch directories around indefinately?
[03:21] <Keybuk> sladen: push them onto the supermirror and it can do that for you
[03:22] <jmg> ah ok, it was for paris
[03:22] <sladen> Keybuk: oh boy, that's alot of diskspace/bandwidth
[03:23] <ajmitch> sladen: not so bad with repositories
[03:23] <Keybuk> sladen: not really, just one revision
[03:23] <jmg> Keybuk: this morning, my specs were approved without discussion
[03:23] <sladen> for some definition of "so bad"
[03:23] <Keybuk> sladen: another option is just to bzr log -v and grab the revision ids
[03:23] <jmg> Keybuk: what is Paris? is that the edgy planning event?
[03:23] <Keybuk> jmg: yes
[03:24] <jmg> hopefully i can attend via IRC :-)
[03:24] <sladen> Keybuk: then reverse-merge from the current directory?
[03:24] <Keybuk> right
[03:24] <Keybuk> I can grep "bzr log -v" for "branch nick: ubuntu.iftab"
[03:24] <sladen> Keybuk: eg.  bzr merge -r x..x+1 . ?
[03:24] <Keybuk> and get the "merged: id" from it
[03:25] <sladen> that's a much better solution, as long as you don't want to keep modifying the patches
[03:25] <Keybuk> even if you modify the patches, you can just do it repeatedly for each one with that branch nick
[03:26] <ajmitch> all these neat little features that snuck into bzr when I wasn't watching
[03:27] <sladen> Keybuk: so if you're editing  foo.patch  you do  mv ./packagename packagename.foo ; cd packagename.foo ... merge ; cd .. ; mv packagename{.foo,}
[03:27] <sladen> just to set the branch nick?
[03:27] <Keybuk> no, I'd cheat and do "bzr nick iftab"
[03:28] <sladen> this is starting to make more senes
[03:28] <sladen> (even if I'm not making senes)
[03:29] <Keybuk> admittedly, the "decide not to include a patch anymore" case is slightly harder with bzr
[03:29] <Keybuk> but I don't think that's a very common case
[03:30] <Keybuk> the common case is simply that the patch is merged upstream -- with bzr that's a no-op
[03:30] <Keybuk> very rarely is a patch abaonded
[03:30] <Keybuk> (I could be wrong)
[03:30] <sladen> it can happen when upstream won't take a patch and you decide it's just not worth carrying the delta
[03:31] <Keybuk> that would assume that the delta is expensive to maintain
[03:31] <sladen> so more likely to be the case in Universe
[03:31] <Keybuk> the theory of bzr says that deltas become cheap to maintain
[03:31] <sladen> yes
[03:32] <Lathiat> that could easily not be the case especially in rapidly changing projects, no?
[03:32] <Keybuk> true
[03:32] <sladen> a sync from Debian is the fast path;  a scripted solution that attempted the import+merge would in theory be just as easy
[03:33] <sladen> it moment it fails to merge, you're back to a human though
[03:34] <Keybuk> that's always going to be the case
[03:34] <Keybuk> if two people change the same code in two different ways
[03:34] <Keybuk> only a human can resolve it
[03:34] <Keybuk> a revision control system at least gives you "A", "B" and "BASE"
[03:34] <Keybuk> rather than just A and B
[04:27] <stuNNed> ok so esd should be disabled by default and just rely on hw system beep and raw alsa support imho
[04:42] <stuNNed> threw crappy imitation flash at esd and it fried alsa
[04:42] <stuNNed> compiling gnash can't find X
[04:42] <stuNNed> or xlibs
[04:43] <stuNNed> one sec let me try the dev packages maybe
[04:43] <stuNNed> thn x
[04:43] <stuNNed> 18.4mb isn't too bad, crap 
[04:54] <stuNNed> another 20mb of -dev packages to get gnash going :D
[05:35] <infinity> Ahh, it's nice when I wake up to an internet connection that doesn't suck...
[05:35] <infinity> Fetched 121MB in 2m0s (1005kB/s)
[07:15] <dholbach> good morning
[08:12] <tepsipakki> fabbione: about the netboot failing here yesterday.. it still does, and the reason is that the installer is trying "http://localmirror/ubuntu dapper-security" which is quite impossible to create
[08:13] <fabbione> tepsipakki: dapper-security is also on the normal mirrors
[08:13] <fabbione> i have it on my localmirror as well
[08:13] <tepsipakki> it is? ok.. will try
[08:13] <fabbione> so probably you are victim of a wrong mirror pulse
[08:13] <fabbione> there have been mirroring issues yesterday
[08:13] <tepsipakki> well, it isn't mirrored here, yet :/
[08:13] <fabbione> i don't know if they have been fixed
[08:14] <fabbione> it is here
[08:14] <tepsipakki> but I think it should use s.u.c if a local mirror doesn't exitst
[08:14] <tepsipakki> exist
[08:14] <tepsipakki> but hold on
[08:17] <fabbione> tepsipakki: i am not going anywhere for the next 10 minutes at least
[08:18] <pitti> Good morning
[08:18] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:18] <tepsipakki> 195189630 bytes will be downloaded into archive.
[08:18] <dholbach> hi pitti
[08:18] <tepsipakki> fabbione: I'll report in a minute if that was it :)
[08:23] <tepsipakki> bah, forgot to mirror main/debian-installer
[08:24] <tepsipakki> hmm no, I'm lost now.. it didn't mirror the udeb, and I don't know what repo to use for that
[08:25] <tepsipakki> oh wait..
[08:28] <tepsipakki> trial-and-error, that's me
[08:28] <tepsipakki> fabbione: it works now
[08:53] <pitti> hi ivoks
[08:53] <ivoks> hi pitti 
[08:54] <ivoks> pitti: that patch for sharing printer should be droped :)
[08:54] <pitti> ivoks: which one?
[08:54] <ivoks> since it doesn't share printer, but printers... and cups can share single printer
[08:54] <ivoks> pitti: the one that didn't get into dapper
[08:54] <pitti> ivoks: oh, the g-cups-mgr UI one
[08:54] <ivoks> yes
[08:55] <pitti> ivoks: for edgy we need a completely new UI infrastructure anyway (eggcups?), so we need a new patch
[08:55] <pitti> ivoks: so we should extend enable_sharing to specify a printer name, too?
[08:55] <ivoks> right, but we should look how to implement "share this printer"
[08:55] <ivoks> yes
[08:55] <pitti> ivoks: it would still open the port, and then set an ACL on the partiuclar printer
[08:55] <ivoks> cups 1.2 supports that
[08:55] <ivoks> right
[08:56] <ivoks> it just needs additional instructions...
[09:05] <ivoks> pitti: looks like fedora has some development around eggcups
[09:06] <pitti> ivoks: yes, I think they wrote it in the first place
[09:06] <ivoks> oh...
[09:06] <pitti> ivoks: however, last update was Februrary 2004
[09:07] <pitti> not exactly up to date either
[09:07] <ivoks> um...
[09:07] <ivoks> not quite
[09:07] <ivoks> http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/fedora/devel/ppc/desktop-printing-0.19-6.ppc.html
[09:08] <ivoks> it's quite newer
[09:08] <ivoks> actully, it's never than dapper :)
[09:08] <pitti> that url doesn't quite seem to work
[09:08] <ivoks> ok, almost :)
[09:08] <ivoks> pitti: ok, check this out ftp://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/source/SRPMS/desktop-printing-0.19-9.src.rpm
[09:08] <pitti> ivoks: however, eggcups is just a gnome-cups-icon replacement
[09:09] <pitti> ivoks: this one is a g-cups-mgr equivalent?
[09:09] <ivoks> pitti: i see only eggcups in that archive
[09:09] <ivoks> but version 0.19
[09:10] <ivoks> yup... last release in 2005.
[09:10] <pitti> jdub: ping
[09:13] <ivoks> pitti: yes, this is only icon, they use system-config-printer for printer managment
[09:13] <pitti> ivoks: what's that?
[09:13] <pitti> hey seb128!
[09:13] <seb128> hello pitti
[09:14] <ivoks> pitti: redhat's tool
[09:14] <ivoks> pitti: py program
[09:14] <pitti> there's really no current gnome-native printer management tool?
[09:14] <ivoks> i searched and searched... but...
[09:15] <ivoks> didn't find anything _recent_
[09:15] <seb128> gnome-cups-manager?
[09:15] <ivoks> :D
[09:15] <ivoks> seb128: recent :)
[09:15] <seb128> ivoks: it's recent
[09:15] <pitti> seb128: something that sucks less
[09:16] <seb128> or do you want to start a new software from scratch every months to get something "recent"?
[09:16] <pitti> seb128: no, but something that provides better hotplug support and dbus integration :)
[09:16] <pitti> seb128: and g-c-m is dead upstream
[09:17] <seb128> I think some Novell guys worked on thaty
[09:17] <seb128> CVS has probably some new feature over current tarball
[09:17] <pitti> oh, cool
[09:17] <desrt> seb128; how was the vacation?
[09:18] <pitti> seb128: it seems we should at least use eggcups instead of g-c-icon to get rid of the polling and 100% cpu usage problems, right?
[09:19] <seb128> desrt: really good ;) 
[09:19] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I think so
[09:19] <seb128> desrt: nice to do something totally different and to enjoy the nice weather for a week ;)
[09:20] <pitti> seb128: at least we finally have nice weather here, too :)
[09:20] <seb128> now I've to catch up with mails and that's not going to be a lot of fun :p
[09:20] <desrt> seb128; lots of launchpad backlog, i'd imagine
[09:21] <desrt> i just had a friend leave my house.  he's not a hacker, by far
[09:21] <desrt> but he's been using ubuntu for a bit over a year and gentoo before that
[09:21] <desrt> he stated something that he has observed --
[09:21] <seb128> around 800 bug mails yep
[09:22] <desrt> in open source, nobody is really doing integration
[09:22] <seb128> and around 400 mails to my debian or ubuntu email (ie: not counting the mailing-list I'm subscribed to)
[09:22] <desrt> you get someone writing gnome power manager, and this other guy writing networkmanager
[09:22] <desrt> but nobody really makes sure that they work together properly
[09:22] <seb128> not always true
[09:22] <desrt> the only time people actually do this is when someone notices a problem, files a bug and makes the "other" maintainer aware of the issues
[09:22] <seb128> GNOME does try to do integration
[09:22] <desrt> i don't think we do very much
[09:23] <seb128> that's one of the reason why g-p-m didn't get accepted for desktop previous cycle no?
[09:23] <fabbione> i'd say it can be done better
[09:23] <desrt> there were a lot of reasons for that
[09:23] <seb128> right, it can
[09:23] <desrt> g-p-m, wrt the rest of the desktop is pretty much a mess right now
[09:23] <fabbione> our major problem, but also power is that our API's keep changing very very fast
[09:23] <desrt> but so is, say, networkmanager
[09:24] <desrt> they each have these wonderful (and sometimes overlapping) APIs/capabilities _that nobody uses_
[09:24] <desrt> fabbione; own any apple laptop hardware?
[09:24] <fabbione> desrt: ?
[09:24] <desrt> ibook, powerbook, macbook, anything?
[09:25] <fabbione> desrt: i have a PB g4 now...
[09:25] <fabbione> the latest one before Apple become an Intel company
[09:25] <desrt> the power brick came with a little plug that attaches directly to it and also came with a cord
[09:25] <fabbione> s/company/reseller
[09:25] <desrt> does the cord feature a 2 or 3 prong plug?
[09:25] <pitti> desrt: still have problems with that? :)
[09:25] <desrt> pitti; i want to know if apple sells a 2-prong cord in any country on earth :)
[09:26] <fabbione> desrt: the brick has 2 "holes" so even if the plug has ground, it's totally useless
[09:26] <pitti> desrt: yes, here in .de 
[09:26] <desrt> pitti; fact of the matter is that 2-prong cords in europe are very universal but not 3-prong is
[09:26] <desrt> fabbione; wrong.
[09:26] <fabbione> desrt: but dk has different standards, so i get both the dk one and the eu one
[09:26] <desrt> fabbione; the brick has a little metal stud on it that the ground connects to
[09:26] <fabbione> desrt: oh right.. i thought that was just to make it more solid
[09:27] <fabbione> desrt: but well yeah i get both 2 and 3 pins
[09:27] <desrt> fabbione; nope.  subtle but functional :)
[09:27] <fabbione> the latter is dk standard
[09:27] <desrt> fabbione; you have a 2-pin europlug for your apple brick?!
[09:27] <fabbione> yeps
[09:27] <fabbione> want a pic?
[09:27] <desrt> please.
[09:28] <desrt> (just to clarify... we're talking about the cord, not the direct-attachment)
[09:30] <fabbione> desrt: yeah
[09:31] <fabbione> desrt: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/IMG_3294.JPG
[09:31] <desrt> (just to clarify... we're talking about the cord, not the direct-attachment)
[09:31] <fabbione> dude
[09:31] <desrt> :)
[09:31] <fabbione> the cord has the DK standard
[09:31] <desrt> 3 prong
[09:31] <fabbione> 3 pins
[09:32] <desrt> BAH
[09:32] <desrt> apple, why must you be evil?
[09:32] <desrt> i think all the cords have 3 pins, alas.
[09:32] <desrt> thanks for the pic :)
[09:32] <desrt> ((are those two pins bent together or is it an optical illusion of the photograph?))
[09:33] <fabbione> desrt: the latter..
[09:33] <fabbione> actually.. they are bent
[09:33] <desrt> :)
[09:33] <desrt> i read somewhere that the pins on plugs in europe often converge
[09:33] <desrt> but i'd never seen an example of it before until now
[09:36] <ivoks> pitti: fwiw, eggcups compiles and works
[09:37] <desrt> k.  bed.
[09:37] <desrt> fabbione; thanks again.  nite :)
[09:37] <fabbione> desrt: no problem.. nite
[10:26] <ispiked> fabbione: ping
[10:26] <fabbione> pong
[10:26] <ispiked> fabbione: was wondering how/when the fix for this bug will get into my dapper system: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6827
[10:26] <Ubugtu> Freedesktop bug 6827 in * Other "[patch]  crash in fb" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]  
[10:27] <fabbione> ispiked: no idea. i am not doing X anylonger
[10:27] <ispiked> fabbione: :(
[10:27] <ispiked> fabbione: who is?
[10:27] <fabbione> probably infinity
[10:28] <ispiked> infinity: ping
[10:28] <infinity> ispiked: ?
[10:28] <ispiked> infinity: see what I asked fabbione.
[10:28] <ispiked> infinity: please. :)
[10:32] <infinity> ispiked: Is there a bug in Malone, does it have a sane patch attached, etc, etc?
[10:32] <ispiked> infinity: uhm... dunno. I don't do malone.
[10:33] <infinity> ispiked: I'm not psychic, and we're certainly not updating dapper with random new upstream releases.
[10:33] <ispiked> infinity: could you at least include the patch?
[10:34] <infinity> ispiked: Seriously, file an Ubuntu bug.  I will have forgotten that this conversation even happened in about 5 minutes, and I don't have the time right now to evaluate the fix.
[10:34] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, and link it to the upstream bug :P
[10:35] <ispiked> infinity: ok. 
[10:36] <ispiked> should it be a "we need to port these changes" bug?
[10:37] <ispiked> or a "this is what I'm seeing; it sucks; let's port the upstream patch that fixes it" bug?
[10:37] <crimsun_> ispiked: just file a bug, link to the fd.o bugtracker, and sub me
[10:38] <crimsun_> please allow our archive team to move edgy along.
[10:40] <sivang> morning all
[10:41] <sivang> Znarl: ping, around?
[10:41] <infinity> crimsun_: Thanks, dude. :/
[10:41] <pygi> sivang, mornin' :)
[10:41] <sivang> morning pygi , how's it going?
[10:41] <pygi> great, what about you? :)
[10:41] <Mithrandir> mako: "meteoronome[r] "?  Not to be confused with metronome.
[10:41] <Hobbsee> hey sivang 
[10:42] <sivang> Fine, trying to sort some administrative stuff ;-)
[10:42] <pygi> nice :)
[10:42] <ispiked> infinity: you would be as annoying as me if you were experiencing this bug.
[10:50] <seb128> pitti: nice that bug #34112 got fixed
[10:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34112 in libgnomeprint "gnome programs don't respect ~/.cups/lpoptions" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34112
[10:50] <pitti> seb128: unfortunately I noticed yesterday that the packages aren't yet built (I mailed infinity already, this needs to be done manually apparently)
[10:50] <pitti> seb128: but yes, this one was a PITA :)
[10:51] <seb128> the number of dups for it is impressive
[10:51] <pitti> seb128: add six or seven more, yesterday I stumbled over another bug with dups which is likely the same
[10:52] <seb128> it was already impression without those :p
[10:52] <pygi> pitti, you have a sec?
[10:52] <pitti> pygi: hi! yes
[10:52] <pygi> pitti, you have debian maintainer powers, right? 
[10:52] <pitti> pygi: yes, I have
[10:53] <pygi> pitti, nice, any chance you could sponsor one package for me?
[10:53] <pitti> pygi: depends, which package?
[10:53] <pygi> this one: http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1158
[10:53] <pitti> pygi: just a bug fix, or a completely new one?
[10:53] <pygi> completely new one
[10:54] <pitti> pygi: oh, it's not in Ubuntu yet either
[10:54] <pygi> pitti, I know :P
[10:54] <pitti> pygi: I don't sponsor sutff without auditing the packaging first, so this will take me a while
[10:54] <pygi> same with diva (diva-project.org)
[10:55] <pitti> pygi: ok, please mail me the URL to source package to mpitt@debian.org
[10:55] <pygi> oki, as soon as it's ready :)
[10:55] <pygi> Thanks
[10:56] <pitti> pygi: oh, so this replaces serpentine and n-cd-burner?
[10:56] <pygi> pitti, what do you mean by "replace" ? 
[10:56] <pitti> pygi: well, functionality-wise
[10:57] <pygi> well, one of it's functions is to record audio, right :)
[10:58] <pygi> and video as well, ofcourse
[10:59] <pygi> pitti, some stuff like "burning over network" is also there
[11:03] <Lathiat> pitti: (not that it matters now, but) should http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-288-4 have listed dovecot-pop3d as well?
[11:03] <pitti> Lathiat: hm, actually yes; let me fix it, thanks
[11:04] <pitti> Lathiat: done
[11:04] <pitti> Lathiat: does it work now for you?
[11:04] <Lathiat> pitti: yeh, i commented on thebug earlier
[11:04] <Lathiat> including with my original real sql queries
[11:04] <pitti> great
[11:05] <Lathiat> nps, thanks for fixing it :)
[11:14] <slomo_> pygi: dia already has an ITP in debian and there already exists a working package... it's only not uploaded yet because diva is not really stable enough for debian yet
[11:14] <slomo_> pygi: s/dia/diva/
[11:14] <pygi> slomo_, It actually isnt uploaded because it require CVS dependencies :P
[11:14] <pygi> But that is change with the 0.0.3 release that we are probably to do this or next week
[11:15] <pygi> s/is/is going to
[11:16] <slomo_> pygi: are you working on it with michael? :)
[11:16] <pygi> yup, along with two more people :)
[11:18] <pygi> he just merged the gdv branch which doesn't require patching
[11:18] <pygi> joy :)
[11:18] <slomo_> pygi: cool :) then i bet pitti won't have anything to say against the packaging, it was almost perfect last time i saw it :)
[11:18] <pygi> slomo_, well, I won't send the package if there's someone already working on it :P
[11:19] <slomo_> pygi: i'm not working on it, i was just curious to try it some time ago :)
[11:19] <pygi> slomo_, I know you are not, but someone obviously is when it's in ITP :P
[11:20] <pygi> slomo_, is Diva any good? :)
[11:20] <seb128> pitti: bug #49192 might be something you want to subscribe to
[11:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49192 in libgcrypt11 "libgcrypt11 has an executable stack" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49192
[11:20] <slomo_> pygi: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=359753
[11:20] <pitti> seb128: oh, indeed; bluefoxicy mentioned it yesterday AFAIK
[11:20] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 359753 in wnpp "Subject: ITP: diva -- Easy to use, scalable video editing software for Gnome." [Wishlist,Open]  
[11:22] <pygi> slomo_, Biebl, right :)
[11:23] <pygi> slomo_, I thought you were reffering to Michael Dominik, with who I work on Diva :P
[11:23] <pygi> But right, was talking to Michael Biebl as well :P
[11:24] <pygi> "I'm currently waiting on diva 0.0.3 which is due the next
[11:24] <pygi> days, it's planned for this version to work with an unpatched gstreamer.
[11:24] <pygi>  So this will be the first version that is uploaded to unstable."
[11:24] <pygi> nice :)
[11:25] <slomo_> pygi: yes :) i wonder whether pitivi or diva is faster in a usuable state ;)
[11:25] <pygi> slomo_, Diva ofcourse ;)
[11:26] <mjr> ooh, working with an _unpatched_ gstreamer :] 
[11:26] <pygi> how can you wonder such a thing :P
[11:27] <seaLne> anyone else running popcon? i got a user unknown this morning for popcon@ubuntu.com
[11:27] <Mithrandir> seaLne: you're supposed to be submitting via http.
[11:28] <seaLne> and if you can't because of proxy?
[11:28] <Mithrandir> then we need to fix email submits. :-P
[11:28] <seaLne> :)
[11:28] <Mithrandir> I've been meaning to for a while, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
[11:28] <Mithrandir> I probably should
[11:28] <kane_> what does it take for a bug to get "confirmed" on launchpad ?
[11:29] <seaLne> Mithrandir: so its been like this for awhile and its only because its me reading mail bounces that i noticed? /me slaps colleagues
[11:29] <seaLne> kane_: someone else to be able to reproduce it
[11:30] <Mithrandir> seaLne: it's been like that for a loooong time.  I've noticed it too, but that doesn't mean I've found time to fix it.
[11:30] <seaLne> Mithrandir: np
[11:30] <kane_> seaLne: well, Scott Robinson and me both have the same problem (I got it on 2 machines) ... so does the bug get confirmed ? and do confirmed bugs get more attention ? (or is it just a state ?)
[11:31] <seaLne> kane_: change the state then, confirmed bugs are probably more likely to get looked at
[11:31] <seaLne> kane_: dosen't mean unconfirmed get ignored tho
[11:31] <kane_> seaLne: how do I change the state ?
[11:32] <kane_> seaLne: i just see "edit description" ... but that doesnt change the state ..
[11:32] <kane_> seaLne: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/48164/+index
[11:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48164 in xorg "Video corruption at installation of xserver-xorg" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  
[11:32] <seaLne> kane_: click on the package name under the affects column near the top
[11:33] <kane_> seaLne: aah ok :)
[11:33] <seaLne> no amazingly obvious IMHO :)
[11:34] <seaLne> i think there is an attempt to write a desktop app to talk to LP
[11:34] <kane_> seaLne: it isn't assigned to anyone ... does that happen automatically ?
[11:34] <Mithrandir> kane_: does it work if you start the installer with debian-installer/framebuffer=false as a boot parameter?
[11:34] <kane_> Mithrandir: i havent tried that ... i can try it and report it at the launchpad
[11:34] <Mithrandir> kane_: please do.
[11:35] <kane_> Mithrandir: ok
[11:35] <seaLne> kane_: someone will asign it to themselves (possibly) or just work on it
[11:35] <kane_> seaLne: aha ok
[11:35] <seaLne> don't assume its being ignored just because it isn't assigned
[11:39] <kane_> seaLne: hehe ... i promise, i won't assume ;)
[11:48] <janimo> Mithrandir: do you know if squashfs-lzma is still considered for the future?
[11:51] <Mithrandir> janimo: argh, I knew there was a spec I'd forgotten. :-(
[12:30] <infinity> Mithrandir: Assuming it Just Works, it won't need much of a spec.
[12:30] <infinity> Mithrandir: Of course, if it doesn't...
[12:32] <Mithrandir> infinity: it'll still take me a few days to implement, test and debug.
[01:22] <dhonn> Will new releases of ubuntu 6.06 be named for example ubuntu 6.06 Service Pack 1?
[01:28] <pitti> carlos: BTW, "Replaces:" was specifically meant for updating single files of other packages :)
[01:46] <fabbione> dhonn: there is no such thing as Service Pack
[01:47] <dhonn> Serial Key?
[01:47] <dhonn> j/p
[01:47] <dhonn> i mean eventually will have to roll out rehashed updated versions of 6.06 
[01:48] <carlos> pitti: I didn't finish my NM process, do you remember? ;-)
[01:48] <dhonn> when there will be tons of updates years later
[01:48] <carlos> and seems like I didn't get that concept
[01:48] <pitti> carlos: heh, but it was close enough :)
[01:50] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 minutes for its regular code update. Estimated downime is 15 minutes
[01:50] <fabbione> dhonn: we haven't decided a name yet.
[01:51] <fabbione> dhonn: probably 6.06a/b/c .. but don't quote me on that
[01:51] <dhonn> oh not sp1
[01:51] <dhonn> not bad
[01:52] <infinity> I like 6.06.1, 6.06.2, but I suppose this will be a point of contention and much opinion until someone just picks a scheme and uses it.
[01:52] <fabbione> infinity: yeah whatever.. .1 .2 is fine with me too
[01:52] <fabbione> but sp1 is so mircosoftish
[01:52] <infinity> Yeah, I can do without "Service Packs".
[01:53] <dhonn> it sounds familiar though does it not
[01:53] <infinity> Only to Windows users.
[01:54] <Hobbsee> argh.  the idea of callign them service packs makes me cringe.
[01:54] <Hobbsee> the first thing i think of w.r.t "service packs" is "how much stuff will get broken as a result of this big and bloated thing"
[01:55] <Hobbsee> and that's coming from a not-really-that-long-ago XP user.
[01:55] <dhonn> how about "dapper drake 2"
[01:55] <Hobbsee> dapper drake update 1?  /me shrugs
[02:00] <rodarvus> meeting time
[02:02] <fabbione> dhonn: we will look at that when the problem will arise
[02:02] <fabbione> no need to call a doctor before you get ill
[02:04] <dhonn> i was just reading some ubuntu materials and came across it
[02:04] <zul> hey fabbione 
[02:04] <fabbione> hey zul
[02:04] <fabbione> later
[02:05] <zul> toodles
[02:18] <pitti> infinity: did you already get an ok for mysql 5.0.22?
[02:23] <jbailey> pitti: moin, Martin.
[02:24] <pitti> jbailey: salut
[02:24] <jbailey> pitti: Does SSP apply to libraries, or just the master application?
[02:24] <pitti> jbailey: it applies to libs as well
[02:24] <pitti> jbailey: it's a per-function modification
[02:24] <jbailey> pitti: Ah, 'kay.  I wonder if it's been tested with glibc?   I'd suspect that it has been, given Fedora's work in this area.
[02:24] <pitti> jbailey: btw, I'm just trying to build various apps with SSP and track the result on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GccSsp
[02:25] <pitti> jbailey: that was also on my list of things to check :)
[02:25] <jbailey> Yes, the WikiMonster kindly emailed me your update. =)
[02:25] <pitti> oh
[02:25] <jbailey> I wasn't sure, though, because all the things you have listed there are apps not libraries.
[02:26] <pitti> jbailey: but glibc would indeed be interesting, but it has a high potential for breakage, of course
[02:26] <elmo> don't fedora enable SSP by default?
[02:26] <jbailey> It also has a very high likelyhood of upstream caring.
[02:26] <pitti> jbailey: yes, as a first start I use 'leaf' packages without many rdepends
[02:26] <pitti> elmo: yes, they do
[02:26] <pitti> elmo: but they certainly have a blacklist; at least xfree86 doesn't work with it, not sure about x.org
[02:27] <elmo> pitti: why the enable bitwise approach then for us?
[02:27] <pitti> elmo: well, just cautiousness; I thought I try a few packages locally before proposing anything :)
[02:27] <pitti> elmo: and e. g. firefox and postgresql already gave problems (2 out of 7 samples), so I think some field tests are appropriate
[02:28] <elmo> failing to build is one thing
[02:28] <pitti> elmo: as noted in the spec, I think we can play around it in edgy and selectively enable it, and if it works well, use it by default in edgy+1 right from the start
[02:28] <elmo> I'd be much more concerned if stuff broke obscurely at run time
[02:29] <pitti> elmo: right, the initial packages I picked are those with big test suites, and packages I use myself
[02:32] <mdke> Znarl: around today?
[02:38] <shawarma> does anyone know if Dapper CD's will be available at UDS?
[02:38] <elmo> mdke: his network at home is down, so probably not
[02:38] <elmo> shawarma: yes, they will
[02:38] <shawarma> elmo: Cool. Thanks.
[02:38] <shawarma> elmo: About "the other thing"... We'll just have a chat in Paris, I suppose?
[02:39] <elmo> shawarma: yes
[02:39] <shawarma> elmo: Great stuff.
[02:40] <mdke> elmo: ah, ouch. Thanks
[02:45] <mjg59> mdz: Why am I getting notifications for every specification change on the wiki?
[02:46] <ogra> mjg59, because TB is subscribed to all of them ? 
[02:49] <mjg59> ogra: That's a very technical answer to the question
[02:49] <ogra> :)
[02:56] <jbailey> mjg59: All signs were that your schoolwork was getting too much attention.  This had to be fixed. ;)
[02:57] <LaserJock> heh
[02:57] <zul> heh...hey jbailey 
[02:58] <jbailey> Heya Chuck
[03:44] <ogra> seb128, would you mind attendint7subscribing to that spec/BOF ? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus
[03:45] <ogra> would be great to have someone with more insight attending
[03:45] <seb128> ogra: not at all, I've just started reading the list of specs and subscribing to some
[03:45] <ogra> cool ! :)
[03:47] <seb128> ogra: that looks like a "use sabayon and do a profile by class of user" case
[03:48] <ogra> seb128, sabayon is broken ...
[03:48] <ogra> at least for ltsp
[03:48] <ogra> additionally we thought that enhancing the sudo stuff in the menus should be possible ...
[03:48] <seb128> not really scalable
[03:49] <ogra> so .desktop files could get another category field 
[03:49] <seb128> it would force to edit every .desktop
[03:55] <LaserJock> seb128: heh, give it do bddebian, he'll fix 'em up ;-)
[03:55] <seb128> LaserJock: I don't want somebody to create extra divergence from upstream or Debian for that
[03:56] <ogra> yeah, lets see what we can come up with in the BOF ...
[04:02] <bddebian> Howdy
[04:13] <mvo> Keybuk: what is the policy to get a spec from "Informational" back to "normal" (langpack-on-cd spec)? Can I just set it back myself if I feel I have adressed the comments?
[04:14] <ogra> mvo, there is a way to switch it back ? 
[04:14] <Keybuk> mvo: the summary in LP still hasn't changed
[04:15] <Keybuk> there's no scope to the spec, it doesn't list source packages that need changing, etc.
[04:16] <Keybuk> it reads as "this is something we should do" (informational) not "this is how we should do this"
[04:17] <mvo> ogra: yes, in "Edit details"
[04:18] <ogra> mvo, i meant rather "there is a way to get switching back approved ?" 
[04:18] <looksaus> hi, I'm trying to use launchpad's malone as a bug tracking system for a project
[04:18] <looksaus> how exactly do I enable that?
[04:18] <jbailey> looksaus: Best to try #launchpad
[04:18] <Lathiat> looksaus: try #laucnhpad
[04:18] <Lathiat> err, #launchpad, or what jbailey said :)
[04:18] <looksaus> ok, thx
[04:19] <jbailey> Lathiat: It's like #laucnhpad, but different ;)
[04:19] <LaserJock> I thought it was lunchpad ;-)
[04:19] <Lathiat> hehe
[04:20] <looksaus> hm, I tried #daphcnual , just like you said, but noone answers there :p
[04:20] <looksaus> no, sorry, should let you work
[04:20] <looksaus> thx for your great work on ubuntu!
[04:20] <pitti> Riddell: do you run dapper or edgy? if dapper, can you please dist-upgrade to today's daily dapper langpacks and tell me about any problem?
[04:23] <sivang> re all
[04:23] <sivang> is there a SoC to make pptp connection establishment (ADSL/Cable) ootb operational ?
[04:23] <infinity> pitti: No, I'll get on that when I wake up tomorrow and push the upload when it's okayed (I want to pull an RC packaging fix from sid while I'm at it)
[04:23] <bddebian> Heya sivang
[04:23] <bddebian> jbailey!  Wow :-)
[04:24] <jbailey> bddebian: Hmm?
[04:24] <pitti> infinity: I mean, did mdz approve it UVF-wise?
[04:24] <bddebian> jbailey: Just a hello and nice to see you :-)
[04:24] <infinity> pitti: No, that was the "I'll get on it" bit (as in, I'll okay it with him, etc)
[04:24] <pitti> ah, thanks
[04:25] <infinity> I should get off to bed so I can wake up early enough to catch mdz in the morning.
[04:25] <jbailey> bddebian: Ah, and hello to you too.
[04:25] <hunger> How is the toolchain comming along?
[04:26] <Riddell> pitti: dapper, upgrading
[04:30] <Riddell> pitti: is deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/ ./  right?
[04:30] <pitti> Riddell: correct
[04:30] <pitti> oh, no
[04:30] <pitti> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/dapper-updates ./
[04:30] <pitti> Riddell: since we also have {hoary,breezy}-updates now
[04:38] <Riddell> pitti: bengali and english both working fine in daily/dapper-updates
[04:38] <pitti> Riddell: great, thank you
[04:39] <Riddell> infinity: can you set qt-x11-free/3:3.3.6-1ubuntu6 to compile?
[04:39] <Riddell> infinity: and kubuntu-default-settings/1:6.06-22
[04:41] <infinity> Riddell: Those are both in -updates?
[04:41] <infinity> Riddell: -updates will be back on full-auto tomorrow.  I'll make sure they get through.
[04:41] <Riddell> infinity: yes, both in dapper-updates
[04:53] <wasabi_> lvm2 package. lvm2.preinst. Appears to 'exit 1' if the kernel version is less than 2.6.12?
[04:53] <wasabi_> Sort of breaks upgrades.
[04:54] <wasabi_> Hoary->Dapper upgrade issue, basically.
[04:54] <ogra> thats unsupported anyway iirc
[04:54] <infinity> We don't support hoary->dapper direct.
[04:55] <infinity> And "breaks upgrades" isn't really the term you're looking for.  You want "halts uprades until you install a newer kernel, reboot, and re-run the upgrade".
[04:55] <wasabi_> Yeah. ;)
[05:01] <pygi> jdub, poke? :)
[05:04] <desrt> BenC; ping
[05:04] <BenC> desrt: pong
[05:05] <desrt> BenC; can you please edit hid-core.c and go down to the powerbook Fn device ID quirks list
[05:06] <desrt> i just got an email from a guy
[05:06] <desrt> as it turns out, 0x217 is the ID only for the white macbook keyboards
[05:06] <desrt> the black models have id 0x218
[05:07] <desrt> so i imagine just copy the 0x217 line and add a 218
[05:07] <BenC> so add 218?
[05:07] <thom> crack!
[05:07] <desrt> ya
[05:07] <ogra> there are black macbooks ?
[05:07] <desrt> yup.
[05:07] <desrt> they cost $200 more than the white ones
[05:07] <desrt> for no obvious reason
[05:08] <ogra> you dont have to clean them as often :)
[05:08] <desrt> fair
[05:08] <desrt> but i wash my hands pretty frequently
[05:08] <desrt> so my white one stays pretty clean
[05:08] <thom> they're trying to convince people they're as cool as thinkpads ;-0
[05:09] <desrt> they look cool and all
[05:09] <desrt> but they're matte finish
[05:09] <mgalvin> a sleek black case makes it faster ;)
[05:09] <jjesse> especially if you paint flames on it
[05:09] <desrt> if you want a matte black laptop (instead of shiny white) then why not just buy a PC?
[05:09] <jjesse> flames always speed things up
[05:10] <mgalvin> hehe :)
[05:17] <jono> hey ho
[05:17] <jono> Keybuk, ping
[05:17] <Keybuk> jono: heyhey
[05:17] <jono> Keybuk, I need a talk title from you for LRL06
[05:17] <jono> and not, Scott James Remnant r0x0r
[05:17] <Keybuk> "Edgy"
[05:18] <jono> cool
[05:18] <bddebian> I like SJR r0xx0rz ! :)
[05:19] <thom> bddebian: but it's lies!
[05:19] <bddebian> thom: sshhh, I'm trying to kiss ass ;-)
[05:21] <jono> heh
[05:27] <jono> Keybuk has been upgraded from "mic boy" at LRL05 to "speaker" :)
[05:27] <Keybuk> pun intended?
[05:29] <jono> eh?>
[05:29] <Keybuk> "microphone" to "speaker"
[05:29] <jono> oh, heh
[05:30] <jono> not intended, but ahha!
[05:30] <Keybuk> but yeah, edgy is going to be my topic
[05:30] <Keybuk> all the shiny things to come
[05:30] <Keybuk> or all the bad things
[05:31] <Keybuk> btw, is it lug tonight or next week?
[05:31] <jono> Keybuk, next week, although I won't be there
[05:31] <Keybuk> me neither
[05:31] <Keybuk> (Paris)
[05:32] <jono> ahhh cool
[05:32] <jono> Keybuk, you at guadec this year?
[05:32] <sfllaw> Can someone add ubuntu-qa as a member to ubuntu-bugs?
[05:33] <Keybuk> jono: when is guadec this year?
[05:33] <Keybuk> (that probably counts as a "no")
[05:33] <sfllaw> I think bradb pushed a change in access restrictions.
[05:33] <jono> Keybuk, heh
[05:33] <jono> can't remember, in a week or so
[05:33] <jono> maybe two weeks
[05:34] <Keybuk> lol
[05:34] <Keybuk> probably not then
[05:34] <Keybuk> where is it?
[05:37] <sfllaw> Keybuk: Could you help?  You're on the TB.
[05:38] <Keybuk> sfllaw: err, what is it that you want?
[05:38] <Keybuk> try that
[05:39] <sfllaw> Keybuk: Merci bien!
[05:40] <highvoltage> sfllaw: you've been learning french too? ;)
[05:40] <Keybuk> pas problem
[05:40] <mgalvin> sfllaw: ping?
[05:40] <sfllaw> mgalvin: Pong.
[05:40] <mgalvin> howdy
[05:41] <sfllaw> mgalvin: How can I help you?
[05:41] <mgalvin> sfllaw: i don't always have time to hang around for the meetings, what type of bug reports do you give that might be useful for UWN?
[05:42] <sfllaw> mgalvin: I just give a brief overview of stats.
[05:42] <jdong|coreduo> sfllaw: like what gentoo weekly news does?
[05:42] <sfllaw> Sadly, LP doesn't give those to us right now.
[05:42] <mgalvin> sfllaw: would it be possible for you to file me in as well each week?
[05:42] <sfllaw> jdong|coreduo: Hmm.  Basically.
[05:43] <mgalvin> or possible just add the notes yourself if you wish
[05:43] <jdong|coreduo> alright, interesting idea
[05:43] <jdong|coreduo> though that might look depressing right now!
[05:43] <sfllaw> mgalvin: If you ping me, then I surely will.  Or if you grep for my name in the irclogs for the dev meeting.
[05:43] <sfllaw> It is depressing.
[05:43] <mgalvin> jdong|coreduo: +1 to announcing -backports updates in UWN
[05:44] <mgalvin> sfllaw: ok cool, thanks
[05:44] <jdong|coreduo> mgalvin: cool :)
[05:44] <jdong|coreduo> great job on the newsletter, btw. I really appreciate it
[05:44] <mgalvin> thanks, glad to work on it :)
[05:46] <jdong|coreduo> mgalvin: how about a little status update or something on edgy development status?
[05:46] <mgalvin> for sure...
[05:46] <jdong|coreduo> backports requesters have been wondering where all the updated packages are, and I don't have an answer to that :)
[05:46] <mgalvin> UWN will cover all kinds of edgy stuff
[05:47] <mgalvin> which packages?, just for backports?
[05:48] <jdong|coreduo> well, just new upstream versions in Edgy in general
[05:48] <jdong|coreduo> there hasn't been much in that regard
[05:48] <mgalvin> b/c the dapper-updates are manual atm, and edgy is having its toolchain fixed
[05:48] <jdong|coreduo> ok, toolchain fixed, I see
[05:48] <jdong|coreduo> that was the explanation I was looking for
[05:48] <mgalvin> once the toolchain and X are working in edgy, the flood gates will open
[05:49] <mgalvin> cool :)
[05:49] <jdong|coreduo> lol, then my fun starts :)
[05:49] <mgalvin> :_
[05:49] <mgalvin> :)
[05:50] <jpatrick> heno: ping
[05:50] <heno> jpatrick: hi
[05:51] <jpatrick> heno: I'm wondering about the host, how do we set up the site?
[05:51] <desrt> so uhm.  neat story
[05:52] <desrt> the tech support page on ubuntu.com says "if you're very new to ubuntu, go applications->internet->xchat"
[05:52] <desrt> xchat is no longer part of the default install
[05:52] <jdong|coreduo> hah, someone forgot to update the site to reflect Dapper :)
[05:53] <desrt> that would appear to be the case.
[05:54] <desrt> what would be nice is a javascript/forms-based web irc client (obviously no flash or java) that takes users directly to #ubuntu
[05:54] <jdong|coreduo> that would be cool
[05:54] <jdong|coreduo> wonder if AJAX can do irc
[05:54] <desrt> i've seen it pre-"ajax"
[05:55] <jdong|coreduo> I've seen chat apps done in ASP.NET before ajax
[05:55] <jdong|coreduo> so it's definitely possible
[05:55] <jdong|coreduo> then again, asp.net was kind of "magical" in that respect...
[05:55] <desrt> http://webchat.xs4all.nl/cgi-bin/ircnet/irc.cgi
[05:55] <desrt> something like this
[05:55] <desrt> it's not bad
[05:56] <_ion> AFAIK it isn't possible to connect to an arbitrary service using plain ECMAscript. One would need a HTTP wrapper even if she used BORAX.
[05:57] <desrt> ion; the webserver does the connection for you
[05:57] <_ion> ChatZilla uses Mozilla's internal API (which isn't available for BORAX) to connect to IRC.
[05:57] <desrt> ion; and you interact with the webesrver
[05:57] <_ion> Yes, in that case BORAX doesn't "do IRC".
[05:57] <_ion> Or at least i consider it that way.
[05:58] <_ion> The web application "does IRC", and BORAX is just a method of doing things in the UI.
[05:58] <desrt> is borax some other word for ajax?
[05:58] <ogra> sounds like a poison 
[05:58] <desrt> sounds like a cleaning agent
[05:59] <jdong|coreduo> desrt: both do :)
[05:59] <jdong|coreduo> borax is fun as a cleaning agent
[05:59] <_ion> Ajax and Borax are cleaners. I use the term somewhat humorously instead of AJAX because i hate the term "AJAX". :-)
[05:59] <_ion> For instance, AJAX doesn't really have anything to do with XML.
[05:59] <jdong|coreduo> ever put glue in a borax solution before?
[05:59] <jdong|coreduo> lol
[06:00] <_ion> XML _might_ be used with AJAX, but the programmer might choose e.g. plain text or JSON instead.
[06:00] <desrt> ajax is like web 2.0
[06:00] <desrt> it doesn't actually exist
[06:00] <desrt> i'm glad that everyone has realised that web2.0 is a joke :)
[06:10] <Jhair> [I've sent this to #ubuntu too, sorry for the duplicates]  Changelog for recent mozilla security update is not accessible from aptitude (see http://mandala.no-ip.info/~jtocancipa/mozilla_changelog_aptitude.jpg). Are in general Changelogs for security updates accessible through aptitude?
[06:14] <kagou> hey seb128 :) hi everybody
[06:14] <seb128> lu kagou
[06:21] <desrt> Jhair; i've never known a changelog to be accessible :p
[06:24] <ogra> desrt, thats because youre not in the a11y team ;P
[06:25] <desrt> ogra; not that sort of acccessible :p
[06:25] <ogra> the others are at changelogs.ubuntu.com :)
[06:48] <BenC> 2.6.17-1.1 is showing up in lp now, but everything is listed as Needs Build
[06:49] <BenC> if I upload -2.2, will it supercede -1.1, leaving it unbuilt?
[06:49] <BenC> this is edgy kernel
[06:53] <seb128> do other people have the option to change a bug importance?
[06:54] <dieman> dont think so
[06:54] <seb128> is there some team membership required for that?
[06:54] <dieman> i can't at least
[06:54] <dieman> im guessing o
[06:54] <dieman> so
[06:54] <seb128> ok, thank you
[06:54] <seb128> anybody from the distro team? :)
[06:54] <seb128> pitti, mvo?
[06:56] <pitti> seb128: no idea, sorry
[06:56] <seb128> pitti: open any bug, click on the task, look if you can ...? :)
[06:57] <pitti> seb128: oh, you mean ubuntu-core-dev members :)
[06:57] <seb128> it's displayed as a label here, it used to be a list of options to pick
[06:57] <seb128> pitti: as said, I've no idea if a team membership is required
[06:57] <pitti> seb128: no, I can't
[06:57] <seb128> I'm trying to understand why I'm not authorized to set bug importance :p
[06:57] <pitti> seb128: might be due to today's LP rollout
[06:57] <seb128> ok, so I'm not alone, good ;)
[06:57] <seb128> I'll go ping #launchpad guys then
[06:57] <mvo> seb128: hello
[06:58] <seb128> mvo: that's fine, thank you ;)
[07:03] <chantra> can someone tell me why a package didn't make its way through revu.tauware pls
[07:04] <ogra> chantra, wrong channel
[07:05] <chantra> ogra: #ubuntu-motu?
[07:05] <ogra> yep
[07:05] <chantra> okie, sorry for the troubles ;)
[07:14] <Riddell> infinity: what's happening with qt in dapper-updates?
[08:02] <LaserJock> doko: ping?
[08:33] <mdz> doko: do we still need gcj-4.1?
[08:33] <mdz> doko: I thought the only reason was to get gcj 4.1 in main while gcc-4.1 stayed in universe
[08:34] <mjg59> mdz: Is there any way that I can stop getting updates every time a spec is edited in the wiki?
[08:34] <mdz> mjg59: procmail?
[08:35] <mdz> I'm not particularly keen on that feature myself
[08:35] <mdz> mjg59: (discussing on #launchpad)
[09:10] <Keybuk> mdz: did you approve seb's upload of gnome-doc-utils?
[09:11] <Keybuk> (or is it granted under gnome +1)
[09:11] <Keybuk> likewise pango-1.0
[09:18] <Tonio_> 'evening
[09:18] <Tonio_> lodlu
[09:18] <bddebian> Heya Tonio_
[09:18] <Tonio_> hey bddebian
[09:21] <mdz> Keybuk: if they're part of the gnome point release, yes
[09:21] <bddebian> Damnit, how can I test interdependent packages locally?
[09:22] <Keybuk> mdz: I have a hard job telling what is and isn't part of a gnome point release
[09:22] <Keybuk> hmm
[09:23] <Keybuk> the version of pango he uploaded _is_ in ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/platform/2.14/2.14.2/sources/
[09:23] <Keybuk> but the version of gnome-doc-utils he uploaded is newer
[09:24] <mdz> Keybuk: is the changelog enlightening?
[09:25] <Keybuk> mdz: translation fixes it appears
[09:25] <Keybuk>    * New upstream version:
[09:25] <Keybuk>      - Fixed plurals for fr, wa, nso; bug #338641
[09:25] <Keybuk>      - Updated translations:
[09:25] <Keybuk> (list of languages)
[09:25] <mdz> if it's only translations, those were blanket accepted
[09:26] <Keybuk> ok, I'll accept both of those then
[09:26] <m0Zzg> http://linuxff.org.ru
[09:26] <_ion> A spambot.
[09:27] <Keybuk> he used the wrong colours
[09:27] <Keybuk> http://launchpad.net/
[09:28] <Keybuk> that's what he should have done :p
[09:29] <dieman> rock, got my own archive setup and changed the key in the installer so i can get my own copy of base-passwd in the debootstrap
[09:29] <dieman> so many contortions for crazily allocated uid's
[09:29] <dieman> (on my end for the crazy uids, not ubuntu)
[10:02] <ProN00b> does ubuntu set any iptables by default ?
[10:02] <sladen> ProN00b: no and -> #ubuntu please
[10:05] <ProN00b> sladen, i already asked there, no answer, there are only like users in there, they don't know shit or get distracted by the mass spam and don't bother to answer
[10:08] <rpedro> hello
[10:08] <Fjodor> ProN00b: I think the message was "you're offtopic in here, so don't ask. It's #ubuntu or elsewhere, not here"
[10:09] <ProN00b> Fjodor, i got that message, but thats not an answer
[10:10] <Keybuk> ProN00b: this is not a support channel.  it does not become a support channel if you are unable to find the answer elsewhere either
[10:11] <rpedro> found a problem with the xubuntu .jigdo file at cdimage.ubuntu.com
[10:11] <ProN00b> i am not asking for support but only for an answer to an yes/no question
[10:11] <tseng> that falls under the "support" umbrella
[10:12] <tseng> and arguing it doesnt help
[10:12] <rpedro> I had to modified it , otherwise it wont find the .template file :-/
[10:12] <thom> ProN00b: and sladen already said "no" anyway
[10:12] <ProN00b> no, it doesn't, tseng, so stop it ! ^^
[10:13] <ProN00b> thom, oh, yeah, thanks for notifying me
[10:13] <tseng> thanks for paying attention
[10:14] <tseng> thom: should we put mongrel in edgy? :)
[10:14] <thom> definitely mate
[10:14] <thom> i'm on the currentest pre-release and it works really well
[10:14] <tseng> i am seeing more people using it now
[10:15] <thom> yep yep
[10:15] <thom> hrm, pub
[10:30] <Kaloz> .oO(who had that braindead idea to ship hostap without firmware upgrade support?)
[10:32] <cyanescent> Does anyone "get" launchpad
[10:37] <Keybuk> cyanescent: ?
[10:37] <cyanescent> Keybuk: can't add any feature specs on the ubuntu-art page
[10:38] <Keybuk> "the ubuntu-art page" ?
[10:38] <Keybuk> URLs would help at this point
[10:38] <cyanescent> keybuk: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs
[10:38] <Keybuk> that's because ubuntu-art is a person
[10:38] <Keybuk> you can't file a spec against a person
[10:38] <cyanescent> or am I being lame ?
[10:38] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
[10:39] <cyanescent> ok so I login, and click on my name
[10:39] <cyanescent> but I still can't add any
[10:39] <cyanescent> + add myself to the list ;/
[10:40] <Keybuk> why did you click your name?
[10:40] <Keybuk> login, then from the /distros/ubuntu/+specs page, you can click "+ New Specification"
[10:40] <Keybuk> or you can click a spec and subscribe to it
[10:40] <cyanescent> well, I thought it might do something interesting
[10:40] <cyanescent> oh
[10:40] <cyanescent> k
[10:42] <cyanescent> but then its listed with non-relevant stuff 
[10:48] <cyanescent> ok thanks that now appears
[10:48] <cyanescent> hmm... a little steep the learning curve on this proggy
[11:01] <evilrabbi> i need help
[11:01] <evilrabbi> xine wont install and i cant look at my porn
[11:02] <mdke> evilrabbi: #ubuntu
[11:02] <evilrabbi> HWY
[11:02] <evilrabbi> k
[11:02] <evilrabbi> is it true that ubuntu developers are pedos ?
[11:02] <_ion> evilrabbi: You really have to work on your troll routine.
[11:03] <evilrabbi> bddebian pedophile
[11:03] <_ion> evilrabbi: I have seen some good trolls; frankly you're not one of them.
[11:03] <mdke> _ion: no need to talk to it
[11:03] <evilrabbi> in other words ubuntu is a way for them to trick kids in to /msging them for "help"
[11:03] <_ion> mdke: Yeah, i'll ignore it from now on.
[11:04] <evilrabbi> _ion was on mdke was on "To Catch A Predator"
[11:04] <evilrabbi> he was chasing a cat around naked
[11:04] <mdke> Keybuk: if you're still around
[11:04] <Keybuk> mdke: I am
[11:05] <Keybuk> ?
[11:05] <Keybuk> oh ^
[11:05] <mdke> can you bitchslap this guy
[11:05] <evilrabbi> =(
[11:05] <evilrabbi> i'm not 10
[11:05] <evilrabbi> =(
[11:41] <Keybuk> STOP FILLING UP MY INBOX!
[11:42] <bddebian> heh
[11:42] <Keybuk> mdz: I do filter e-mail
[11:43] <Keybuk> Launchpad just defeats that by sending everything to one address
[11:43] <Keybuk> I'm clearly going to have to make a special case for wiki changes
[11:44] <mdz> I already filter wiki changes to a separate folder
[11:45] <bluefoxicy> <3 thunderbird filters
[11:46] <Seveas> Keybuk, doesn't blueprint add nice flterable headers?
[11:46] <Keybuk> Seveas: no, they're just x-generated-by: launchpad ones
[11:46] <Seveas> bah
[11:46] <Seveas> file a bug