/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/06/15/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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Hobbsee@schedule sydney01:27
UbugtuSchedule for Australia/Sydney: 16 Jun 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 03:00: Documentation Team | 16 Jun 06:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 21 Jun 06:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 23:30: Xubuntu | 22 Jun 06:00: Edubuntu01:27
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:heno] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jun 17:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 21 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 17:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 21 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
Seveasheno, don't let Ubugtu bite you ;)01:50
henoSeveas: is that a bot or a person?01:50
Seveasa bot01:50
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Hobbseethere, neither can bite now.01:51
Seveasheno, to add a meeting: poke the fridge folks01:51
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henowell, the dev meeting has been cancelled. It's correct on the fridge, but wrong here01:51
ogra@topic01:53
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jun 17:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 21 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu
ograsad he missed that, else he'd know the next time :)01:53
Seveasogra, I don't want him to overload the fridge so it checks once every hour01:54
ograyep01:55
ograi meant heno with "he" above ;)01:55
Seveashehe01:56
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sfllaw@schedule 02:30
UbugtuSchedule for Etc/UTC: 15 Jun 17:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 20:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 13:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 21:00: Kubuntu02:30
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jjesse@Agenda Detroit04:09
jjesse@schedule Detroit04:10
UbugtuSchedule for America/Detroit: 15 Jun 13:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu04:10
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GNAM@schedule rome06:19
UbugtuSchedule for Europe/Rome: 15 Jun 19:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu06:19
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Documentation Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 21 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 21 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 21 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
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HedgeMagehi, all :)09:58
RobinShepheardhello09:58
jjesse@schedule Detroit09:59
UbugtuSchedule for America/Detroit: Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu09:59
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HedgeMagehi DanielC 09:59
DanielChi :)09:59
RobinShepheardhiya DanielC, see you found us okay :-)10:00
DanielCYeah.10:00
HedgeMageI'm sorry that an official agenda never made it out, this meeting was a bit last-minute.10:00
DanielCWhat are cookbook meetings anyways? I think they are "help the noob" sessions, is that right?10:00
RobinShepheardDanielC: not quite, they are a set of meetings to write the help the noob book10:01
HedgeMageDanielC: not quite... cookbook is a project to write the ultimate "beginner's guide" to edubuntu10:01
HedgeMageLOL GMTA, RobinShepheard :D10:01
DanielCah10:01
RobinShepheardguess I must be psychic :-)10:01
DanielCSo the purpose is to *write* a cookbook. That makes more sense now.10:01
HedgeMage:) yep10:02
RobinShepheardHedgeMage: GMTA ??10:02
HedgeMageRobinShepheard: Great Minds Think Alike :)10:02
RobinShepheardaahhh10:02
highvoltagehi there10:03
HedgeMageAnyhow, since we're agenda-less, I'll at least enumerate some talking points, if you have something to add when I'm done, please do so10:03
HedgeMagehi highvoltage 10:03
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RobinShepheardHedgeMage: looks a little thin on the ground with the team10:03
RobinShepheardhiya highvoltage10:03
highvoltagei'm not part of the cookbook team, but i'll stay up to date with happenings.10:03
DarkElf109Same here, heh10:04
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HedgeMageTalking points: LaTeX vs. Docbook vote (hopefully swift), discussion of potential re-naming, drafting a new document outline, and divvying up some of the beginnning work.  If we have time, we *might* touch on the edgy+1 publication debate, but that'll most likely get tabled again for later.10:05
HedgeMageAnyone want to add anything?10:05
RobinShepheardnope, seems to cover most things10:05
DanielCDocBook10:06
HedgeMageOkay, before we vote on LaTeX vs. Docbook, did anyone miss the mailing list discussion and need a recap?10:06
DanielCIf you were writing a math textbook I'd say LaTeX.10:06
DanielCI did. But I'm not in the team anyways.10:06
HedgeMagelol10:06
HedgeMage:)10:06
HedgeMagewell, anyone can vote if they'd like10:06
HedgeMagewe're pretty laid-back at this point10:07
HedgeMageokay... I'm voting Docbook10:07
DanielC:-)10:07
HedgeMageothers?10:07
DanielCDocBook has a much lower barrier to entry and is more apt for non-mathematical documentation.10:07
RobinShepheardwell I don't know much about either but following the discussion docbooks seems to make most sense10:07
HedgeMageanybody else want to register a vote before it's closed?10:08
HedgeMageOkay, then, we're going with docbook10:08
DanielCThat was easy...10:08
HedgeMageyep :)10:09
RobinShepheardeasier than last meet10:09
HedgeMageI think I was the biggest LaTeX advocate, but the discussion on the mailing list turned me around10:09
HedgeMageAnyhow, on to the re-naming question... I agree with last meeting's observation that "cookbook" doesn't quite accurately describe this project any more... my recommendation is to start a wiki page for naming suggestions and vote on it at the next meeting (probably about a month from now)10:10
RobinShepheardI have to say that suggestion sounds fair to me10:11
RobinShepheardI obviously like my seggestion best but ... :)10:11
HedgeMagehehe :)10:11
HedgeMageOkay, now for the hard part, new document outline10:12
HedgeMagesince we have so few people here, I'd like to consider this a "working draft" of sorts... we can always modify later if needed10:12
RobinShepheardmakes sense10:13
HedgeMagehttps://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters  <--- This is our last chapter outline, you'll probably want it open for reference.10:13
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pygihey people10:14
pygisorry for being so late10:14
HedgeMagenp10:14
HedgeMagepygi: we voted in favor of docbook, and decided to start a wiki page to suggest new titles for cookbook to be voted on at our next meeting10:14
HedgeMagepygi: that's all you missed so far10:14
HedgeMagethat and:10:14
HedgeMagehttps://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters  <--- This is our last chapter outline, you'll probably want it open for reference.10:14
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HedgeMageas we're about to talk about a new outline10:15
pygiHedgeMage, oki, please continue10:15
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HedgeMageSuggestions from last meeting included: including a small "troubleshooting" section at the end of each applicable chapter, adding a hardware setup and basic networking chapter (or chapters), expanding the app descriptions to include examples of each app's use in a classroom setting, and rarranging the LTSP and stand-alone install parts into three sections each: pre-install, install, and post-install, absorbing some of the "shiny thing10:17
HedgeMagehmm... that was long, did it get truncated?10:17
RobinShepheardI got up to shiny thin10:18
DanielCLast I saw was "shiny thing"10:18
HedgeMage...absorbing some of the "shiny things" content into the appropriate post-install sections10:18
devil786yeah me too10:18
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RobinShepheardseems to sum up the comments last meeting fairly well10:21
HedgeMageanyone have any comments on any of that? like those suggestions? dislike them? want to steal a piece of my strawberry shortcake? :P10:21
RobinShepheardstrawberry shortcake....mmmmmm nice10:21
HedgeMagehomemade :)10:22
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RobinShepheardhow do you want to create the new layout, are we going to create a new page and edit now??10:22
HedgeMageIMHO, they all sound like good ideas, and the "troubleshooting" suggestion brings up something else I'd like to do: come up with some kind of working template or standard for individual chapters10:23
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RobinShepheardHedgeMage: go on, what sort of template did you have in mind10:23
HedgeMageRobinShepheard: basically just some kind of standard way of making sure we're consistent with headings, etc, and making sure things like the troubleshooting section aren't forgotten10:24
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HedgeMagehi EmxBA :)10:25
EmxBAhi10:25
RobinShepheardwell I can't argue with that, makes sense10:25
EmxBAi am a bit late10:25
EmxBA:)10:25
HedgeMageEmxBA: if you want an update on what you missed, /msg me or pygi10:25
EmxBAwhat are you currently talking about, HedgeMage?10:25
HedgeMagethat way we won't clog the chan like I did last time10:25
EmxBAok10:25
HedgeMageEmxBA: new outline and some sort of spec or template on how to put together a chapter.10:25
RobinShepheardso with the apps say, start with a description of the app then what it can do and then how to do it for example??10:26
EmxBAcan i help on cookbook?10:27
EmxBAhi, highvoltage10:27
EmxBAhi, RobinShepheard, nice to see you10:27
RobinShepheardhiya EmxBA10:27
highvoltagehey EmxBA!10:27
RobinShepheardgood to see you too10:27
EmxBA:)10:28
EmxBAtnx10:28
RobinShepheardHedgeMage: would it be worth finishing each basic chapter with a find more info here section with say links and books in10:29
HedgeMageHmmm... or maybe put them throughout the chapter and summarize in some organized manner at the end of the book?10:30
HedgeMagethat's a good idea10:30
EmxBAall of that should be very simple and understandable, right?10:30
=== HedgeMage nods
HedgeMageokay, referencing the old outline...10:30
RobinShepheardyeah that would make sense dotting them throughout but they might not read the entire chapter and get sidetracked and miss bits10:31
HedgeMageI'd say Part 1 is pretty good as-is (outline-wise)10:31
HedgeMageany comments on Part 1 ?10:31
RobinShepheardnone from me10:31
HedgeMageokay, then, as we move on to Part 2, I'm going to reference parts and chapters as they are on the old outline... the segments inside parts and outside chapters (the pre install and post we talked about) will be referred to as "sections" for the time being, just for clarity's sake10:33
RobinShepheardokay10:33
EmxBAok for me10:33
HedgeMageSo, Part 2 will now have 3 sections: Pre-Install, Install, and Post-Install... sound good?10:34
EmxBAnice10:35
RobinShepheardwould you include the intro to computer networks and things in pre-install??10:35
EmxBAnow it has  Indroduction, requirements, installation, administration...10:35
RobinShepheardor would it make sense to have that as a seperate section with just the intro to networking and thinclients in10:36
EmxBAshouldn't we have administration part in new, Post-Install section10:36
HedgeMageRobinShepheard: that's a tough one... I'd definitely put a "hardware set-up" section at the beginning of the pre-install section...10:36
RobinShepheardagreed but wouldn't this be prior to that10:37
HedgeMage...but the networking basics bit might better go in a seperate part (maybe the end of part 1?) with info on how to choose LTSP vs. standalone10:37
RobinShepheardI was jus ttyping much the same thing I reckon at the end of section 110:37
HedgeMage:)10:37
EmxBAHedgeMage, RobinShepheard, be aware that I am leaving in about 30 minutes, but I want to contribute, I am just waiting for this conversation to ends10:38
HedgeMageokay, now would "basic networking" and "chosing LTSP or standalone" be one chapter or two seperate ones?10:38
EmxBAwhy is https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/AboutBook locked10:38
EmxBA?10:38
HedgeMageEmxBA: np, can you /msg me an email address so I can update you if we run late?10:38
EmxBAEdubuntu is written lower case10:38
EmxBAHedgeMage: you have my mail on my wiki page, ok10:39
EmxBAcan i just get yours?10:39
HedgeMageEmxBA: HedgeMage@binaryredneck.net10:39
EmxBAok10:39
EmxBAand your real name is?10:39
EmxBAjust want to know?10:39
HedgeMagesusan :)10:39
EmxBAok10:39
EmxBAI am Emir :)10:40
RobinShepheardI would think 2 chapters, depending on how long you want them10:40
=== HedgeMage nods
HedgeMagesounds good10:40
RobinShepheard'networking made simple' and 'computer options'10:40
RobinShepheardwell maybe10:40
HedgeMageMaybe "Networking Basics" and "Choosing an Install Type" ??10:41
RobinShephearddefinately more professional10:41
RobinShepheardyou win10:41
HedgeMagehehe10:41
EmxBAin chapter two, administration and security should be merged into post-install (maybe post-install configuration and etc.)10:41
EmxBAdo you agree?10:41
HedgeMageOkay, back to Part 210:41
RobinShepheardyeah I agree with that10:42
pygiEmxBA, please be quiet10:42
pygiHedgeMage is leading the meeting10:42
EmxBApygi, OK, I'll calm down :)10:42
HedgeMagehehe :)10:42
HedgeMageEmxBA: at least youre excited :D10:42
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HedgeMageintro and hardware reqs would be pre-install, install would go in install...10:42
EmxBAHedgeMage: well, not really excited, I am just very interested in Edubuntu Cookbook10:43
HedgeMagepretty much everything else would be "post install"10:43
HedgeMageEmxBA: that's a good thing! :D10:43
pygiEmxBA, just be shhh :)10:43
=== cbx33 sends his apologies
cbx33I'm late :(10:44
RobinShepheardyeah I reckon that makes sense  (the layout that is)10:44
HedgeMagecbx33: np if you need to be updated on what you miss, please grab someone via /msg :)10:44
EmxBApygi, if you are quiet, why should I be? I think you wanted to calm me down, not to be so excited :)10:44
HedgeMagequestion: should the "security" chapter go in install or post-install?10:45
EmxBApost-install, or "configuration"10:45
RobinShepheardI would say post install because you don't really set any security settings during install10:46
DanielCWhat does security cover? My first reaction is post-install.10:46
HedgeMageDanielC: well, it's not written yet, but it should have things to check in LTSP.conf and so on10:46
DanielCpost10:46
EmxBAI suggest we speak few words about Edubuntu on laptops in "Hardware requirements" or "Post-install" in part 210:46
EmxBAok?10:46
HedgeMageI'm tempted to put it in install because you really shouldn't let people on the system without reading that stuff, OTOH it probably technically belongs in "post"10:47
=== HedgeMage ponders
RobinShephearddifficult call10:47
DanielCgood point10:47
EmxBAi would be glad to write a page about Edubuntu on laptops10:47
HedgeMageAnyone have any thoughts either way?10:47
HedgeMageEmxBA: covering what, for example?10:48
RobinShepheardif you broke install up into 2 chapters physical install and polishing configuration10:48
RobinShepheardthat may cover it10:48
DanielCTechnically I'm confident it is "post". But if we put it there does that mean some people won't read it?10:48
RobinShepheardmaybe DanielC10:49
HedgeMagethat's what I'm afraid of 10:49
EmxBAHedgeMage: i would like to explain how nice Edubuntu works on laptops (in my case, X, function keys, special keys, wireless , everything works), and to explain setting up some parts of these (maybe X or wireless) on laptops if it doesn't work, unlike me10:49
=== DanielC thinks
cbx33hmm10:49
cbx33it is tricky to get the balance right10:49
cbx33I suppose really it depends on how large the sections are going to be10:50
cbx33in a lot of ways10:50
DanielCI wish we could have two sections called "critical stuff" and "nice to do stuff"; then critical could have a "post install" sub-section.10:50
HedgeMageEmxBA: interesting... we'll have to figure out where to put it10:50
cbx33I mean10:50
HedgeMageDanielC: That might make the organization too cluttered, though10:50
EmxBAcbx33: if you were talking to me, I would really spend a lot of time for writing a text about laptop configuration10:50
cbx33this book, is this time going to be much more of a book10:51
EmxBAanyway, I am chatting with you right now on a laptop :)10:51
cbx33in that it should be a reference10:51
DanielCHedgeMage: Yes, so I wouldn't suggest it as stated. Just speaking out-loud really.10:51
RobinShepheardEmxBA: so am I10:51
cbx33as well as having setup10:51
DanielCthinking out loud :)10:51
=== DanielC gets English expressions wrong some times ;-)
EmxBARobinShepheard: what?10:51
RobinShepheardcould we put it under subheadings in the main installation chapter10:51
RobinShepheardEmxBA: Dell latitude D60010:52
EmxBAok10:52
EmxBAi have FSC Amilo 10:52
HedgeMageRobinShepheard: could work.... but which install?  standalone probably, since 99% of laptops will be done that way.10:52
EmxBAL682510:52
DanielCHedgeMage: Maybe two post-install sections: "post install (critical)" and "post install (polish)". Or something along those lines.10:52
RobinShepheardyeah, that would be the most sensible HedgeMage10:52
EmxBAHedgeMage: not every laptop; on my friends laptop function keys don't work, he always get resolution 640x480 and his wireless card requires recompiled kernel10:53
EmxBAand in few days he fixed all of that by manually editing configuration files :)10:53
RobinShepheardDanielC: you could include it in the main install by doing sub sections on physical and config10:53
EmxBAHedgeMage: what do you think about that?10:54
HedgeMagesince hardware is already in pre-install I think that would confuse things.10:54
HedgeMagefor now, let's leave security in post-install and make sure to warn of its importance at the end of the install chapter10:55
HedgeMagewe can change that later if needed.10:55
EmxBAHedgeMage: then i suggest we make special page for laptops and put it somewhere later10:55
EmxBAwhen we find out appropriate chapter for that, OK?10:55
HedgeMageok10:56
HedgeMagepart 3 will largely be a mirror of part 2's organization, unless anyone has comments about why we should consider doing it differently10:56
EmxBAso i wil write it, ok? any help would be nice (this counts you too, RobinShepheard ) :)10:57
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HedgeMageokay, on to part 4 and "shiny things"10:57
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HedgeMagea lot of what was in "shiny things" (printing, security updates, etc) has been moved to the two post-install sections10:58
HedgeMageso, we can merge the rest into part 410:58
HedgeMagewe'll need to rename part 4, however10:58
HedgeMagethoughts?10:58
RobinShepheardI like the using edubuntu name to be honest10:59
RobinShepheardwhy change it10:59
RobinShepheardleave it all as that in my opinion10:59
EmxBAEdubuntu is really ok10:59
EmxBASchoolubuntu or studentubuntu sounds bad :)11:00
HedgeMageEmxBA: we weren't talking about renaming Edubuntu, we're talking about renaming part IV (4) of the cookbook11:00
HedgeMageanyhow, "using edubuntu" can stay then since I don't have a better idea either :)11:01
HedgeMageOkay, I'll volunteer to have the new outline on the wiki within the next 24 hours.11:01
RobinShepheardwell it sums up the chapter nicely as it will go into using all the software and things11:01
EmxBAHedgeMage: oh, sorry, didn't understand11:01
HedgeMageso everyone can see it.11:01
=== EmxBA is ashamed :)
HedgeMageEmxBA: np, mistakes happen11:02
EmxBAi know :)11:02
EmxBAjust continue11:02
RobinShepheardok, anything you would like me to do HedgeMage??11:02
HedgeMagewe're running out of time, so if anyone has comments on the chapter spec, please email the edubuntu-devel list and pygi and I will have it when we hack out a spec.11:02
HedgeMageRobinShepheard: once we wrap up here, can you post meeting minutes to edubuntu-devel for me?11:03
RobinShepheardok I reckon I can manage that11:03
HedgeMageawesome!11:03
pygiHedgeMage, thanks for leading the meeting11:04
HedgeMagepygi and I will also get with the ubuntu doc people and get ahold of an SVN repo.11:04
pygiyou did it even better then me :)11:04
RobinShepheardthe new wiki page, will that be the same address as the old one??11:04
HedgeMageif you want an email when we post the SVN info to the wiki, /msg me your email address and I will send you one11:04
HedgeMageRobinShepheard: no, but I'll link to it from https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu  (which also doesn't exist atm)11:05
RobinShepheardok11:05
HedgeMagepygi: heh, thanks, you do a good job too!11:05
pygiHedgeMage, nah, ofcourse I don't :P11:05
HedgeMageAnyone have anything else before we close the meeting?11:05
RobinShepheardI will list the link in the email minutes11:06
HedgeMageRobinShepheard: thanks!11:06
RobinShepheardno problem11:06
HedgeMagegoing once11:06
HedgeMagegoing twice...11:06
pygisold11:06
pygi:)11:06
RobinShepheardlol11:06
HedgeMageMeeting over :D11:06
=== HedgeMage buys pygi
=== pygi escapes :P
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HedgeMageThanks everyone for showing up... please subscribe to edubuntu-devel if you haven't already so you can keep up on between-meeting discussions and the date of the next meeting11:07
RobinShepheardthank you for the hosting of the meeting11:08
=== HedgeMage waves
HedgeMagenp :)11:08
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SpecI hope they don't actually hack out a spec :-/11:13
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pygiSpec, heh, why is that? :P11:14
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EmxB1sorry11:14
EmxB1my connection blew out11:14
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=== emxBA is now known as EmxBA
EmxBA:( what happened in last few minutes?11:15
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 21 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu

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