[01:27] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[01:27] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 16 Jun 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 03:00: Documentation Team | 16 Jun 06:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 21 Jun 06:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 23:30: Xubuntu | 22 Jun 06:00: Edubuntu
[01:50] <Seveas> heno, don't let Ubugtu bite you ;)
[01:50] <heno> Seveas: is that a bot or a person?
[01:50] <Seveas> a bot
[01:51] <Hobbsee> there, neither can bite now.
[01:51] <Seveas> heno, to add a meeting: poke the fridge folks
[01:51] <heno> well, the dev meeting has been cancelled. It's correct on the fridge, but wrong here
[01:53] <ogra> @topic
[01:53] <ogra> sad he missed that, else he'd know the next time :)
[01:54] <Seveas> ogra, I don't want him to overload the fridge so it checks once every hour
[01:55] <ogra> yep
[01:55] <ogra> i meant heno with "he" above ;)
[01:56] <Seveas> hehe
[02:30] <sfllaw> @schedule 
[02:30] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 15 Jun 17:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 20:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 13:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 21:00: Kubuntu
[04:09] <jjesse> @Agenda Detroit
[04:10] <jjesse> @schedule Detroit
[04:10] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 15 Jun 13:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu
[06:19] <GNAM> @schedule rome
[06:19] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 15 Jun 19:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu
[09:58] <HedgeMage> hi, all :)
[09:58] <RobinShepheard> hello
[09:59] <jjesse> @schedule Detroit
[09:59] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu
[09:59] <HedgeMage> hi DanielC 
[09:59] <DanielC> hi :)
[10:00] <RobinShepheard> hiya DanielC, see you found us okay :-)
[10:00] <DanielC> Yeah.
[10:00] <HedgeMage> I'm sorry that an official agenda never made it out, this meeting was a bit last-minute.
[10:00] <DanielC> What are cookbook meetings anyways? I think they are "help the noob" sessions, is that right?
[10:01] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: not quite, they are a set of meetings to write the help the noob book
[10:01] <HedgeMage> DanielC: not quite... cookbook is a project to write the ultimate "beginner's guide" to edubuntu
[10:01] <HedgeMage> LOL GMTA, RobinShepheard :D
[10:01] <DanielC> ah
[10:01] <RobinShepheard> guess I must be psychic :-)
[10:01] <DanielC> So the purpose is to *write* a cookbook. That makes more sense now.
[10:02] <HedgeMage> :) yep
[10:02] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: GMTA ??
[10:02] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: Great Minds Think Alike :)
[10:02] <RobinShepheard> aahhh
[10:03] <highvoltage> hi there
[10:03] <HedgeMage> Anyhow, since we're agenda-less, I'll at least enumerate some talking points, if you have something to add when I'm done, please do so
[10:03] <HedgeMage> hi highvoltage 
[10:03] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: looks a little thin on the ground with the team
[10:03] <RobinShepheard> hiya highvoltage
[10:03] <highvoltage> i'm not part of the cookbook team, but i'll stay up to date with happenings.
[10:04] <DarkElf109> Same here, heh
[10:05] <HedgeMage> Talking points: LaTeX vs. Docbook vote (hopefully swift), discussion of potential re-naming, drafting a new document outline, and divvying up some of the beginnning work.  If we have time, we *might* touch on the edgy+1 publication debate, but that'll most likely get tabled again for later.
[10:05] <HedgeMage> Anyone want to add anything?
[10:05] <RobinShepheard> nope, seems to cover most things
[10:06] <DanielC> DocBook
[10:06] <HedgeMage> Okay, before we vote on LaTeX vs. Docbook, did anyone miss the mailing list discussion and need a recap?
[10:06] <DanielC> If you were writing a math textbook I'd say LaTeX.
[10:06] <DanielC> I did. But I'm not in the team anyways.
[10:06] <HedgeMage> lol
[10:06] <HedgeMage> :)
[10:06] <HedgeMage> well, anyone can vote if they'd like
[10:07] <HedgeMage> we're pretty laid-back at this point
[10:07] <HedgeMage> okay... I'm voting Docbook
[10:07] <DanielC> :-)
[10:07] <HedgeMage> others?
[10:07] <DanielC> DocBook has a much lower barrier to entry and is more apt for non-mathematical documentation.
[10:07] <RobinShepheard> well I don't know much about either but following the discussion docbooks seems to make most sense
[10:08] <HedgeMage> anybody else want to register a vote before it's closed?
[10:08] <HedgeMage> Okay, then, we're going with docbook
[10:08] <DanielC> That was easy...
[10:09] <HedgeMage> yep :)
[10:09] <RobinShepheard> easier than last meet
[10:09] <HedgeMage> I think I was the biggest LaTeX advocate, but the discussion on the mailing list turned me around
[10:10] <HedgeMage> Anyhow, on to the re-naming question... I agree with last meeting's observation that "cookbook" doesn't quite accurately describe this project any more... my recommendation is to start a wiki page for naming suggestions and vote on it at the next meeting (probably about a month from now)
[10:11] <RobinShepheard> I have to say that suggestion sounds fair to me
[10:11] <RobinShepheard> I obviously like my seggestion best but ... :)
[10:11] <HedgeMage> hehe :)
[10:12] <HedgeMage> Okay, now for the hard part, new document outline
[10:12] <HedgeMage> since we have so few people here, I'd like to consider this a "working draft" of sorts... we can always modify later if needed
[10:13] <RobinShepheard> makes sense
[10:13] <HedgeMage> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters  <--- This is our last chapter outline, you'll probably want it open for reference.
[10:14] <pygi> hey people
[10:14] <pygi> sorry for being so late
[10:14] <HedgeMage> np
[10:14] <HedgeMage> pygi: we voted in favor of docbook, and decided to start a wiki page to suggest new titles for cookbook to be voted on at our next meeting
[10:14] <HedgeMage> pygi: that's all you missed so far
[10:14] <HedgeMage> that and:
[10:14] <HedgeMage> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters  <--- This is our last chapter outline, you'll probably want it open for reference.
[10:15] <HedgeMage> as we're about to talk about a new outline
[10:15] <pygi> HedgeMage, oki, please continue
[10:17] <HedgeMage> Suggestions from last meeting included: including a small "troubleshooting" section at the end of each applicable chapter, adding a hardware setup and basic networking chapter (or chapters), expanding the app descriptions to include examples of each app's use in a classroom setting, and rarranging the LTSP and stand-alone install parts into three sections each: pre-install, install, and post-install, absorbing some of the "shiny thing
[10:17] <HedgeMage> hmm... that was long, did it get truncated?
[10:18] <RobinShepheard> I got up to shiny thin
[10:18] <DanielC> Last I saw was "shiny thing"
[10:18] <HedgeMage> ...absorbing some of the "shiny things" content into the appropriate post-install sections
[10:18] <devil786> yeah me too
[10:21] <RobinShepheard> seems to sum up the comments last meeting fairly well
[10:21] <HedgeMage> anyone have any comments on any of that? like those suggestions? dislike them? want to steal a piece of my strawberry shortcake? :P
[10:21] <RobinShepheard> strawberry shortcake....mmmmmm nice
[10:22] <HedgeMage> homemade :)
[10:22] <RobinShepheard> how do you want to create the new layout, are we going to create a new page and edit now??
[10:23] <HedgeMage> IMHO, they all sound like good ideas, and the "troubleshooting" suggestion brings up something else I'd like to do: come up with some kind of working template or standard for individual chapters
[10:23] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: go on, what sort of template did you have in mind
[10:24] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: basically just some kind of standard way of making sure we're consistent with headings, etc, and making sure things like the troubleshooting section aren't forgotten
[10:25] <HedgeMage> hi EmxBA :)
[10:25] <EmxBA> hi
[10:25] <RobinShepheard> well I can't argue with that, makes sense
[10:25] <EmxBA> i am a bit late
[10:25] <EmxBA> :)
[10:25] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: if you want an update on what you missed, /msg me or pygi
[10:25] <EmxBA> what are you currently talking about, HedgeMage?
[10:25] <HedgeMage> that way we won't clog the chan like I did last time
[10:25] <EmxBA> ok
[10:25] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: new outline and some sort of spec or template on how to put together a chapter.
[10:26] <RobinShepheard> so with the apps say, start with a description of the app then what it can do and then how to do it for example??
[10:27] <EmxBA> can i help on cookbook?
[10:27] <EmxBA> hi, highvoltage
[10:27] <EmxBA> hi, RobinShepheard, nice to see you
[10:27] <RobinShepheard> hiya EmxBA
[10:27] <highvoltage> hey EmxBA!
[10:27] <RobinShepheard> good to see you too
[10:28] <EmxBA> :)
[10:28] <EmxBA> tnx
[10:29] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: would it be worth finishing each basic chapter with a find more info here section with say links and books in
[10:30] <HedgeMage> Hmmm... or maybe put them throughout the chapter and summarize in some organized manner at the end of the book?
[10:30] <HedgeMage> that's a good idea
[10:30] <EmxBA> all of that should be very simple and understandable, right?
[10:30] <HedgeMage> okay, referencing the old outline...
[10:31] <RobinShepheard> yeah that would make sense dotting them throughout but they might not read the entire chapter and get sidetracked and miss bits
[10:31] <HedgeMage> I'd say Part 1 is pretty good as-is (outline-wise)
[10:31] <HedgeMage> any comments on Part 1 ?
[10:31] <RobinShepheard> none from me
[10:33] <HedgeMage> okay, then, as we move on to Part 2, I'm going to reference parts and chapters as they are on the old outline... the segments inside parts and outside chapters (the pre install and post we talked about) will be referred to as "sections" for the time being, just for clarity's sake
[10:33] <RobinShepheard> okay
[10:33] <EmxBA> ok for me
[10:34] <HedgeMage> So, Part 2 will now have 3 sections: Pre-Install, Install, and Post-Install... sound good?
[10:35] <EmxBA> nice
[10:35] <RobinShepheard> would you include the intro to computer networks and things in pre-install??
[10:35] <EmxBA> now it has  Indroduction, requirements, installation, administration...
[10:36] <RobinShepheard> or would it make sense to have that as a seperate section with just the intro to networking and thinclients in
[10:36] <EmxBA> shouldn't we have administration part in new, Post-Install section
[10:36] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: that's a tough one... I'd definitely put a "hardware set-up" section at the beginning of the pre-install section...
[10:37] <RobinShepheard> agreed but wouldn't this be prior to that
[10:37] <HedgeMage> ...but the networking basics bit might better go in a seperate part (maybe the end of part 1?) with info on how to choose LTSP vs. standalone
[10:37] <RobinShepheard> I was jus ttyping much the same thing I reckon at the end of section 1
[10:37] <HedgeMage> :)
[10:38] <EmxBA> HedgeMage, RobinShepheard, be aware that I am leaving in about 30 minutes, but I want to contribute, I am just waiting for this conversation to ends
[10:38] <HedgeMage> okay, now would "basic networking" and "chosing LTSP or standalone" be one chapter or two seperate ones?
[10:38] <EmxBA> why is https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/AboutBook locked
[10:38] <EmxBA> ?
[10:38] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: np, can you /msg me an email address so I can update you if we run late?
[10:38] <EmxBA> Edubuntu is written lower case
[10:39] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: you have my mail on my wiki page, ok
[10:39] <EmxBA> can i just get yours?
[10:39] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: HedgeMage@binaryredneck.net
[10:39] <EmxBA> ok
[10:39] <EmxBA> and your real name is?
[10:39] <EmxBA> just want to know?
[10:39] <HedgeMage> susan :)
[10:39] <EmxBA> ok
[10:40] <EmxBA> I am Emir :)
[10:40] <RobinShepheard> I would think 2 chapters, depending on how long you want them
[10:40] <HedgeMage> sounds good
[10:40] <RobinShepheard> 'networking made simple' and 'computer options'
[10:40] <RobinShepheard> well maybe
[10:41] <HedgeMage> Maybe "Networking Basics" and "Choosing an Install Type" ??
[10:41] <RobinShepheard> definately more professional
[10:41] <RobinShepheard> you win
[10:41] <HedgeMage> hehe
[10:41] <EmxBA> in chapter two, administration and security should be merged into post-install (maybe post-install configuration and etc.)
[10:41] <EmxBA> do you agree?
[10:41] <HedgeMage> Okay, back to Part 2
[10:42] <RobinShepheard> yeah I agree with that
[10:42] <pygi> EmxBA, please be quiet
[10:42] <pygi> HedgeMage is leading the meeting
[10:42] <EmxBA> pygi, OK, I'll calm down :)
[10:42] <HedgeMage> hehe :)
[10:42] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: at least youre excited :D
[10:42] <HedgeMage> intro and hardware reqs would be pre-install, install would go in install...
[10:43] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: well, not really excited, I am just very interested in Edubuntu Cookbook
[10:43] <HedgeMage> pretty much everything else would be "post install"
[10:43] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: that's a good thing! :D
[10:43] <pygi> EmxBA, just be shhh :)
[10:44] <cbx33> I'm late :(
[10:44] <RobinShepheard> yeah I reckon that makes sense  (the layout that is)
[10:44] <HedgeMage> cbx33: np if you need to be updated on what you miss, please grab someone via /msg :)
[10:44] <EmxBA> pygi, if you are quiet, why should I be? I think you wanted to calm me down, not to be so excited :)
[10:45] <HedgeMage> question: should the "security" chapter go in install or post-install?
[10:45] <EmxBA> post-install, or "configuration"
[10:46] <RobinShepheard> I would say post install because you don't really set any security settings during install
[10:46] <DanielC> What does security cover? My first reaction is post-install.
[10:46] <HedgeMage> DanielC: well, it's not written yet, but it should have things to check in LTSP.conf and so on
[10:46] <DanielC> post
[10:46] <EmxBA> I suggest we speak few words about Edubuntu on laptops in "Hardware requirements" or "Post-install" in part 2
[10:46] <EmxBA> ok?
[10:47] <HedgeMage> I'm tempted to put it in install because you really shouldn't let people on the system without reading that stuff, OTOH it probably technically belongs in "post"
[10:47] <RobinShepheard> difficult call
[10:47] <DanielC> good point
[10:47] <EmxBA> i would be glad to write a page about Edubuntu on laptops
[10:47] <HedgeMage> Anyone have any thoughts either way?
[10:48] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: covering what, for example?
[10:48] <RobinShepheard> if you broke install up into 2 chapters physical install and polishing configuration
[10:48] <RobinShepheard> that may cover it
[10:48] <DanielC> Technically I'm confident it is "post". But if we put it there does that mean some people won't read it?
[10:49] <RobinShepheard> maybe DanielC
[10:49] <HedgeMage> that's what I'm afraid of 
[10:49] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: i would like to explain how nice Edubuntu works on laptops (in my case, X, function keys, special keys, wireless , everything works), and to explain setting up some parts of these (maybe X or wireless) on laptops if it doesn't work, unlike me
[10:49] <cbx33> hmm
[10:49] <cbx33> it is tricky to get the balance right
[10:50] <cbx33> I suppose really it depends on how large the sections are going to be
[10:50] <cbx33> in a lot of ways
[10:50] <DanielC> I wish we could have two sections called "critical stuff" and "nice to do stuff"; then critical could have a "post install" sub-section.
[10:50] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: interesting... we'll have to figure out where to put it
[10:50] <cbx33> I mean
[10:50] <HedgeMage> DanielC: That might make the organization too cluttered, though
[10:50] <EmxBA> cbx33: if you were talking to me, I would really spend a lot of time for writing a text about laptop configuration
[10:51] <cbx33> this book, is this time going to be much more of a book
[10:51] <EmxBA> anyway, I am chatting with you right now on a laptop :)
[10:51] <cbx33> in that it should be a reference
[10:51] <DanielC> HedgeMage: Yes, so I wouldn't suggest it as stated. Just speaking out-loud really.
[10:51] <RobinShepheard> EmxBA: so am I
[10:51] <cbx33> as well as having setup
[10:51] <DanielC> thinking out loud :)
[10:51] <EmxBA> RobinShepheard: what?
[10:51] <RobinShepheard> could we put it under subheadings in the main installation chapter
[10:52] <RobinShepheard> EmxBA: Dell latitude D600
[10:52] <EmxBA> ok
[10:52] <EmxBA> i have FSC Amilo 
[10:52] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: could work.... but which install?  standalone probably, since 99% of laptops will be done that way.
[10:52] <EmxBA> L6825
[10:52] <DanielC> HedgeMage: Maybe two post-install sections: "post install (critical)" and "post install (polish)". Or something along those lines.
[10:52] <RobinShepheard> yeah, that would be the most sensible HedgeMage
[10:53] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: not every laptop; on my friends laptop function keys don't work, he always get resolution 640x480 and his wireless card requires recompiled kernel
[10:53] <EmxBA> and in few days he fixed all of that by manually editing configuration files :)
[10:53] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: you could include it in the main install by doing sub sections on physical and config
[10:54] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: what do you think about that?
[10:54] <HedgeMage> since hardware is already in pre-install I think that would confuse things.
[10:55] <HedgeMage> for now, let's leave security in post-install and make sure to warn of its importance at the end of the install chapter
[10:55] <HedgeMage> we can change that later if needed.
[10:55] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: then i suggest we make special page for laptops and put it somewhere later
[10:55] <EmxBA> when we find out appropriate chapter for that, OK?
[10:56] <HedgeMage> ok
[10:56] <HedgeMage> part 3 will largely be a mirror of part 2's organization, unless anyone has comments about why we should consider doing it differently
[10:57] <EmxBA> so i wil write it, ok? any help would be nice (this counts you too, RobinShepheard ) :)
[10:57] <HedgeMage> okay, on to part 4 and "shiny things"
[10:58] <HedgeMage> a lot of what was in "shiny things" (printing, security updates, etc) has been moved to the two post-install sections
[10:58] <HedgeMage> so, we can merge the rest into part 4
[10:58] <HedgeMage> we'll need to rename part 4, however
[10:58] <HedgeMage> thoughts?
[10:59] <RobinShepheard> I like the using edubuntu name to be honest
[10:59] <RobinShepheard> why change it
[10:59] <RobinShepheard> leave it all as that in my opinion
[10:59] <EmxBA> Edubuntu is really ok
[11:00] <EmxBA> Schoolubuntu or studentubuntu sounds bad :)
[11:00] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: we weren't talking about renaming Edubuntu, we're talking about renaming part IV (4) of the cookbook
[11:01] <HedgeMage> anyhow, "using edubuntu" can stay then since I don't have a better idea either :)
[11:01] <HedgeMage> Okay, I'll volunteer to have the new outline on the wiki within the next 24 hours.
[11:01] <RobinShepheard> well it sums up the chapter nicely as it will go into using all the software and things
[11:01] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: oh, sorry, didn't understand
[11:01] <HedgeMage> so everyone can see it.
[11:02] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: np, mistakes happen
[11:02] <EmxBA> i know :)
[11:02] <EmxBA> just continue
[11:02] <RobinShepheard> ok, anything you would like me to do HedgeMage??
[11:02] <HedgeMage> we're running out of time, so if anyone has comments on the chapter spec, please email the edubuntu-devel list and pygi and I will have it when we hack out a spec.
[11:03] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: once we wrap up here, can you post meeting minutes to edubuntu-devel for me?
[11:03] <RobinShepheard> ok I reckon I can manage that
[11:03] <HedgeMage> awesome!
[11:04] <pygi> HedgeMage, thanks for leading the meeting
[11:04] <HedgeMage> pygi and I will also get with the ubuntu doc people and get ahold of an SVN repo.
[11:04] <pygi> you did it even better then me :)
[11:04] <RobinShepheard> the new wiki page, will that be the same address as the old one??
[11:04] <HedgeMage> if you want an email when we post the SVN info to the wiki, /msg me your email address and I will send you one
[11:05] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: no, but I'll link to it from https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu  (which also doesn't exist atm)
[11:05] <RobinShepheard> ok
[11:05] <HedgeMage> pygi: heh, thanks, you do a good job too!
[11:05] <pygi> HedgeMage, nah, ofcourse I don't :P
[11:05] <HedgeMage> Anyone have anything else before we close the meeting?
[11:06] <RobinShepheard> I will list the link in the email minutes
[11:06] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: thanks!
[11:06] <RobinShepheard> no problem
[11:06] <HedgeMage> going once
[11:06] <HedgeMage> going twice...
[11:06] <pygi> sold
[11:06] <pygi> :)
[11:06] <RobinShepheard> lol
[11:06] <HedgeMage> Meeting over :D
[11:07] <HedgeMage> Thanks everyone for showing up... please subscribe to edubuntu-devel if you haven't already so you can keep up on between-meeting discussions and the date of the next meeting
[11:08] <RobinShepheard> thank you for the hosting of the meeting
[11:08] <HedgeMage> np :)
[11:13] <Spec> I hope they don't actually hack out a spec :-/
[11:14] <pygi> Spec, heh, why is that? :P
[11:14] <EmxB1> sorry
[11:14] <EmxB1> my connection blew out
[11:15] <EmxBA> :( what happened in last few minutes?