[06:04] <troy_s> ping
[06:05] <Madpilot> pong (sort of) ;)
[06:13] <troy_s> greetz mag
[06:13] <troy_s> mad
[07:33] <adamant1988> hi all
[07:49] <troy_s> hey adamant
[11:02] <lapo> hi
[11:04] <lukacu> hello
[04:30] <Riyonuk> so...
[04:34] <troy_s> so?
[04:34] <Riyonuk> XD, how can I contribute art
[04:36] <troy_s> well it depends... what type of art do you want to contribute?
[04:36] <Riyonuk> Im not sure, logos, icons?
[04:36] <troy_s> riyonuk:  If you wish to contribute to something that will make the Edgy release, then you will need to wait a little longer until we have a development spec in place.
[04:36] <troy_s> great.
[04:36] <Riyonuk> edgy whats that?
[04:37] <troy_s> edgy is the next release of ubuntu.
[04:37] <Riyonuk> ahh
[04:37] <Riyonuk> such weird names
[04:37] <Riyonuk> i guess its better than v3 or whatever
[04:37] <troy_s> if you want to contribute some simple art to the community, your best starting point is gnome-look.org or something akin to that.
[04:38] <Riyonuk> alright ill check that out
[04:38] <troy_s> every release, mark picks a handle for the release - 6.06 was Dapper Drake, the next is Edgy Eft
[04:38] <troy_s> If you want to try and contribute to the 'main' Ubuntu default distribution, you will need to get involved via the wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam start point.
[04:38] <Riyonuk> gnome is the desktop right? I just want to work with ubuntu
[04:39] <Riyonuk> yeah there we go
[04:39] <troy_s> Yep.  Gnome is the window manager, so you can't work on one without the other :)
[04:39] <Riyonuk> where do i go in the wiki?
[04:39] <troy_s> right now, there are structural steps being taken to try and get everything up to a click and contribute sort of level.
[04:40] <Riyonuk> ahh i guess thats what im looking for, they should make something where "Need Ubuntu Logo" and then people upload there pictures, then we can see them on one page, and then we vote
[04:41] <troy_s> It's happening :)
[04:41] <Riyonuk> ok
[04:41] <troy_s> But your involvement would help if you take the time to go to that page.
[04:42] <troy_s> Perhaps even read through the mail archives to get a feel of the last few months activity.
[04:43] <Riyonuk> Well the thing is ubuntu confuses me, there site confuses me, but ill try
[04:43] <Riyonuk> ...so many links to click
[04:44] <troy_s> Yep.
[04:44] <troy_s> Another issue we are trying to streamline.
[04:44] <jsgotangco> hi!
[04:44] <troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam _should_ be relatively easy to understand for you.
[04:44] <troy_s> if it isn't, let us know how to make it better as the wiki is undergoing massive restructuring at some point in this cycle... sooner.
[04:44] <Riyonuk> so what should i do in the meantime, i was aiming twords actually coding but thats impossible
[04:45] <troy_s> greetings jsgot!
[04:45] <troy_s> riyonuk:  bear with the group for a moment.
[04:46] <Riyonuk> alright
[04:46] <troy_s> riy:  learn launchpad, etc.
[04:46] <Riyonuk> whats that?
[04:46] <troy_s> riy:  we intend on using it for this next cycle.
[04:46] <troy_s> go to that artworkteam page.
[04:46] <troy_s> it is all there.
[04:47] <Riyonuk> ok ill try
[04:47] <Riyonuk> but i dont understand any of this to be honest
[04:48] <troy_s> jsgotangco: What is up?
[04:48] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Well you will need to do a little legwork... it's in its infancy still.
[04:48] <jsgotangco> hey just checking what's up online, will be flying in a few hours
[04:49] <Riyonuk> what is launchpad, a programming language?
[04:49] <adamant1988> hi all.
[04:50] <jsgotangco> Riyonuk: http://launchpad.net
[04:51] <Riyonuk> so its like the center of OS software
[04:52] <jsgotangco> a lot of ubuntu development revolves around launchpad
[04:52] <klepas> it's a development framework
[04:53] <klepas> allows developers to track bugs, manage packages they create, talk to each other - ultimately to collaborate and create some rocking stuff :)
[04:53] <Riyonuk> ahh
[04:54] <klepas> :)
[04:54] <Riyonuk> well you know them bounties, is there any like the "Creat a slogan" ones that dont involve coding but more of ideas
[04:54] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Generally no.
[04:55] <Riyonuk> ahh i only know html...
[04:55] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Strictly speaking, HTML is a markup language... not really 'code' per se.
[04:56] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Python, C, C++ would all qualify as 'code' :)
[04:56] <Riyonuk> im trying to learn c++...
[04:56] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Needless to say, the structure is setting in.
[04:56] <Riyonuk> not much luck
[04:57] <troy_s> Starting with C is probably well over the edge.
[04:57] <troy_s> Start with python or something simple like bash scripting.
[04:58] <Riyonuk> what should i start with?
[04:58] <klepas> python or mayhaps ruby
[04:58] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Depends on your knowledge level... if you are very very very new to coding, start with scripting.
[04:58] <Riyonuk> new yes
[04:58] <klepas> no matter who you talk to you're going to get a biased answer though :)
[04:58] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Dive into scripting some stuff for your home folder tidying etc.
[04:58] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Something that works... then build up from there.
[04:59] <klepas> python is lovely for many reasons
[04:59] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Maybe start with something as simple as a script that prints out the contents of a directory etc.
[04:59] <Riyonuk> what is the script, like does it have its own language
[05:00] <troy_s> Google bash
[05:00] <troy_s> scripting
[05:01] <troy_s> There are many simple howtos out there... learning how to mine information on the net is very important for coding as well, so it is a good introduction.
[05:01] <Riyonuk> tell me its for windows
[05:01] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Most scripting languages are available for windows, but you will need to target one that is cross platform.
[05:01] <Riyonuk> bash sounds linux like
[05:02] <troy_s> bash is... you are in an Ubuntu forum.
[05:02] <troy_s> :)
[05:02] <troy_s> Expect linux.
[05:02] <troy_s> If you don't run Linux, you will not have an easy time with all the details.
[05:02] <troy_s> As klepas has said, python is good too...
[05:03] <troy_s> Greetings by the by klepas!
[05:03] <Riyonuk> so i cant learn bash? im on windows, linux i dont have
[05:03] <jsgotangco> Riyonuk: yes
[05:03] <jsgotangco> Riyonuk: try googling for "cygwin"
[05:04] <Riyonuk> is that windows?
[05:04] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:05] <jsgotangco> http://www.cygwin.com/
[05:06] <Riyonuk> god i wish i was smart
[05:06] <Riyonuk> theres so many stuff out there i didnt know i didnt know
[05:07] <adamant1988> Riyonuk, it's not being dumb, it's just being ignorant, there is a difference.
[05:07] <troy_s> Riyonuk:  Indeed... Linux and open source / free software (freedom) is all about education.
[05:07] <troy_s> Riyonuk:  The more you learn, the more power you have.  The more you understand.  The more you work towards further freedoms.
[05:07] <Riyonuk> not to me, for me its stupidity, ill sit there for like hours trying to learn
[05:08] <adamant1988> Riyonuk, I  don't know a single language, and I'm trying my best to learn them
[05:08] <adamant1988> I'm in the same boat as you.
[05:08] <Riyonuk> cool
[05:08] <Riyonuk> well not really cool
[05:08] <adamant1988> But I know I'm not stupid, I just don't know yet.
[05:08] <troy_s> Riyonuk: You need to start small.  Your knowledge will compound.  You are having problems because you
[05:08] <Riyonuk> so whats cgywin supposed to do
[05:08] <troy_s> are trying to read and you don't really know the alphabet yet :)
[05:08] <adamant1988> Nice analogy troy
[05:09] <troy_s> Riyonuk:  Take your time, start small, and work up.  It will come and you will eventually learn _much_ faster.  Learning is a geometric curve.
[05:09] <adamant1988> Riyonuk,  how old are you?
[05:09] <Riyonuk> i sure hope so, i guess your right, i first had no idea of html and no its easy like pie
[05:09] <Riyonuk> 15
[05:09] <adamant1988> Ah.  you've plenty of time to learn
[05:10] <adamant1988> I'm 17.
[05:10] <Riyonuk> 207.235.116.176
[05:10] <troy_s> adamant1988: I use the literacy analogy quite often.  It is simple and easy to grasp.  In a world where the commercial operating systems want you to think that the computer is a gadget and you should point and click for everything, I suggest that it is more like language and literacy -- more important and more difficult.  That's just the way it is.
[05:10] <Riyonuk> thats my site, im working on
[05:10] <adamant1988> :) well put
[05:10] <adamant1988> YES this update is MASSIVE
[05:11] <troy_s> truthfully, Apple and Microsoft would like it to be kept that way -- it keeps the power in the centre and lets you market it.
[05:12] <Riyonuk> alright im downloading setup.exe
[05:12] <troy_s> Riyonuk:  If you _really_ want to start the path of learning, try installing Ubuntu (which should be easy) and living on it.
[05:12] <troy_s> Riyonuk: You will feel pretty good about what you learn.
[05:12] <Riyonuk> i tried that, very hard
[05:13] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Don't give up!  There are thousands of people who will help you.
[05:13] <troy_s> Riyonuk: #ubuntu is a great starting place.
[05:13] <troy_s> Riyonuk: and the Ubuntu philosophy and code of conduct means that no one will admonish you for not knowing.  They are _very_ supportive.
[05:14] <Riyonuk> yeah i can see that
[05:14] <Riyonuk> your not like others that cuss me out and tell me to use google
[05:15] <troy_s> Riyonuk: That isn't what Ubuntu is about, nor myself.  I want to educate so that you can help others.
[05:15] <troy_s> Riyonuk: If we don't, then MS and Apple win.
[05:15] <Riyonuk> ok, but before i start anywhere i think i need dsl, dont you think
[05:17] <troy_s> Riyonuk: It could help, but not totally necessary.
[05:17] <troy_s> Riyonuk: As I said, you can start with what you have
[05:17] <Riyonuk> which is a 97 pc and dial-up
[05:18] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Start small :)
[05:19] <Riyonuk> ill try
[05:19] <Riyonuk> so i start where...
[05:19] <troy_s> Well... xubuntu might be a good start point.
[05:19] <Riyonuk> umm what will i be doing/learnign
[05:20] <troy_s> Riyonuk: You just need to dive in.  There is no way I could give you a list of what you will learn.
[05:21] <Riyonuk> Im thinking maybe I should learn windows first before linux
[05:22] <troy_s> Riyonuk: It's your choice.
[05:22] <troy_s> This has migrated to #ubuntu-offtopic though.
[05:22] <troy_s> Riyonuk: Good luck with your learning.
[05:22] <Riyonuk> thanks
[05:22] <jsgotangco> oh so this is the artwork meeting???
[05:22] <Riyonuk> im off to uhh im not sure
[05:23] <troy_s> jsgotangco:  No.
[05:23] <jsgotangco> ah hehe
[05:23] <jsgotangco> i thought it was
[05:23] <troy_s> jsgotangco: Saturday.
[05:23] <jsgotangco> ah right
[05:23] <troy_s> jsgotangco: For those who can attend, which is probably not myself and a few others judging from what I know.
[08:04] <troy_s> ping
[08:04] <troy_s> bersace you in?
[09:15] <troy_s> ping
[09:15] <adamant1988> pong
[09:15] <adamant1988> hello troy :)
[09:16] <troy_s> greetz adamant
[09:16] <adamant1988> So troy, what is up?
[09:16] <troy_s> how are you doing?
[09:16] <troy_s> just doing some last minute  pre-paris stuffs.
[09:16] <adamant1988> I'm doing well, got off of my first job, have to go to my next one in a while.
[09:16] <troy_s> trying to get the specs into launchpad for dev
[09:16] <troy_s> blah blah
[09:16] <troy_s> wow.
[09:16] <troy_s> two jobs.
[09:16] <troy_s> eager fellow.
[09:16] <adamant1988> yeah, something like that.
[09:16] <troy_s> you going to school right now?
[09:17] <adamant1988> no
[09:17] <adamant1988> I couldn't do both jobs and school, I'd die.
[09:17] <troy_s> know the feeling... did it :)
[09:17] <troy_s> one job and school is enough.
[09:17] <adamant1988> but yeah... I was thinking about trying to get involved in the ubuntu art thing.
[09:18] <troy_s> good for you.  there should be a pretty solid framework in place shortly...
[09:18] <troy_s> need to kill off a couple of matters before hard advancements are made.
[09:18] <troy_s> namely paris.
[09:18] <adamant1988> yeah... well, I wanted to get an idea of where I stand artwise
[09:19] <troy_s> i think the nice thing is that with a good design document, _everyone_ can contribute even if they have limited artistic abilities etc.
[09:19] <adamant1988> http://dismalmuse.deviantart.com/
[09:19] <adamant1988> can you tell me where I stand =\
[09:19] <troy_s> scratch some concept on a napkin and refine.
[09:19] <troy_s> well
[09:19] <troy_s> art is rather subjective
[09:19] <troy_s> you will find that if you pursue it professionally, you will have favorites and dislikes regarding styles and other artists.
[09:20] <adamant1988> I used to be heavy into it
[09:20] <adamant1988> I'd be able to do a lot more, better, if I had PS.
[09:20] <troy_s> that looks like abstract macro photography
[09:20] <adamant1988> minus the photography
[09:20] <adamant1988> I painted it all
[09:20] <troy_s> ps?  anything you want to do you can probably do in gimp
[09:20] <troy_s> what are the white pixel specs from?  are they by design or scan?
[09:21] <adamant1988> design.
[09:21] <adamant1988> Noise set to lighten to give off a starry effect, well, that was the intention
[09:21] <adamant1988> Yeah, but gimp is missing my favorite features
[09:21] <troy_s> like what?
[09:22] <adamant1988> Color Balance, levels, and B/C layers.
[09:22] <troy_s> you know there are a plethora of all sorts of userland scripts out there for it.
[09:22] <adamant1988> oh yeah?
[09:22] <troy_s> color balance?  you mean like levels?
[09:22] <adamant1988> Yeah, but as a layer instead of just effecting one
[09:22] <adamant1988> like the CB layer effects all layers under it
[09:22] <adamant1988> I used them ALL the time in PS
[09:23] <troy_s> i would need to look into it further.  needless to say, i remember pre-photoshop days and believe me, it is still evolving.  takes time and people contributing.
[09:23] <troy_s> there is always paint / brush / chalk / pencil / etc.
[09:24] <troy_s> ;)
[09:24] <adamant1988> oh yeah, my sister is into the painting and such
[09:24] <adamant1988> I don't have the steady hand for it
[09:24] <adamant1988> and I can't create form... I prefer abstract because I decide when it's finished.
[09:24] <adamant1988> and I'm not just copying something, it's all coming from my brain
[09:25] <troy_s> abstract is great.  there are a lot of historical abstract artists.
[09:25] <troy_s> but knowing when something is finished is something that requires gosh knows how much practice.  I believe there is a famous quote out there something to the effect that "A good artist knows when to put the brush down."
[09:26] <troy_s> can't remember who it was who said that...
[09:26] <adamant1988> bill gates.
[09:26] <troy_s> um no
[09:26] <troy_s> laf.
[09:26] <adamant1988> haha
[09:26] <adamant1988> Did you hear billy boy is stepping down from his position in MS in 2008?
[09:27] <troy_s> well something to that effect.  i think he is downing from chief architect or something, but alas, that is off topic.
[09:28] <adamant1988> yeah...
[09:28] <troy_s> "adamant1988: yeah... well, I wanted to get an idea of where I stand artwise" -- remember, there are a good number of rather high profile careers that were built around flying in the face of massive criticism from the 'general' public.  persistence pays off sometimes, and some even create genres...
[09:28] <troy_s> cubism, dadaism, etc.
[09:29] <adamant1988> yeah, but I want to help on the Ubuntu project some... and I know my 'work' isn't the norm.
[09:29] <troy_s> in fact, dare i say that is often the whole point of art
[09:29] <troy_s> i don't think you are alone.
[09:30] <troy_s> you can clearly see that sort of thing when someone considers animation
[09:30] <troy_s> it takes many many folks to get an animation completed -- keyframers, inbetweeners backgrounders, etc.
[09:30] <troy_s> and all need to keep referencing the existing illustrations, design goals, etc to stay the course.
[09:31] <troy_s> it's not easy.  if you go off on a tangent, the project starts to feel mishapen.
[09:31] <troy_s> tricky juggling. ;)
[09:31] <adamant1988> =\
[09:33] <adamant1988> Yeah I like gimp, but I need my CB layers... and I don't like inkscape at all.
[09:33] <adamant1988> I'm considering running Crossover office to run those programs...
[09:35] <adamant1988> I'm going to make an ippimail wallpaper as soon as I can get patterns added to GIMP
[09:35] <troy_s> sure.  keep in mind that ultimately they are just tools.  don't let the tools own you.
[09:35] <troy_s> the source of the work is still you, and sometimes the artist needs to be creative to get that out.
[09:36] <adamant1988> Yeah, the tools don't own me I can work around the lack of features, but it makes it a lot easier when I have them
[09:36] <adamant1988> but I need to get GIMP to accept this pattern I made....
[09:36] <troy_s> certainly... you might consider getting involved with the gimp project.  it is only as good as the people who contribute.
[09:36] <adamant1988> I know like 0 coding.
[09:37] <troy_s> sometimes it is a knowledge gap (meaning that it supports it, but you don't know how), sometimes it is a feature gap.
[09:38] <adamant1988> yeah
[09:38] <adamant1988> you wouldn't know how to get it to recognize custom patterns would you?
[09:39] <troy_s> i might... private message me
[09:39] <troy_s> what are you trying to do in particular?
[10:01] <adamant1988> back