[12:48] <zul> infinity: ping
[01:56] <infinity> zul: pong.
[01:57] <zul> infinity: i tried to do an dapper-security upload and it guess it failed so Ben uploaded can you confirm my suspisions for me?
[02:03] <crimsun_> zul: a reject? if so, are you using the correct host?
[02:03] <zul> yeah i am
[02:05] <infinity> zul: Let me check quickly.
[02:05] <infinity> zul: What did you upload?
[02:06] <zul> vmware-player-kernel
[02:07] <infinity> Rejected: The key (0x207677DEFA14013B) used to sign vmware-player-kernel-2.6.15_2.6.15.10-7.dsc wasn't found in the keyring(s).
[02:07] <infinity> Rejected: vmware-player-kernel-2.6.15_2.6.15.10-7.dsc: md5sum check failed.
[02:07] <zul> ok thats what i thought
[02:07] <zul> thank you
[02:08] <infinity> Not sure what's up the the failed md5sum check...
[02:08] <infinity> I also don't see an accepted upload from Ben.
[02:08] <infinity> Was it just an upload to bump the ABI?  I can do that for you.
[02:08] <fabbione> don't sweat about it
[02:08] <fabbione> we will get mvo to do it and test it before
[02:09] <fabbione> infinity: let's get d-i first. the vmware player is less urgent (multiverse)
[02:09] <infinity> I need to do some vmware-player* uploads to dapper-updates anyway.  There are a few bugs to iron out, due to it being rushed so late in the release.
[02:09] <infinity> fabbione: Yes, very true.
[02:14] <fabbione> jdub: i guess they didn't port to sparc yet, but only to i386
[02:35] <ogra> infinity, seen bug 49900 ?
[02:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49900 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 "Driver installed in a wrong location" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49900
[02:41] <infinity> ogra: Rejected.
[02:41] <ogra> oh, the guy was so enthusiastic :)
[02:43] <fabbione> even my mommy was enthusiastic when she figured i have been interviewed in an Italian magazine.. that doesn't make her understand what i said in the interview
[02:43] <ogra> indeed :)
[02:44] <HrdwrBoB> the main problem in that bug is that he bought a radeon 9000
[02:45] <LaserJock> heh
[02:48] <fabbione> HrdwrBoB: the main problem in that bug is that somebody did allow me close to a computer
[03:28] <bddebian> Heya
[03:54] <TheMuso> mdz: Requesting approval for the final debdiff in Malone #49780. MOTUs weren't sure as to what version increment this should take, so if it needs changing, I can re-upload with different version. Thanks in advance.
[03:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49780 in gobby "Gobby crashes upon load when GNOME accessibility options are turned on." [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49780
[03:55] <mdz> bddebian: sorry, missed your answer
[03:55] <bddebian> s'ok, I'm used to it ;-)
[03:56] <mdz> bddebian: in your example, you've done the right thing (ask for confirmation, close as unreproducible if it isn't received)
[03:56] <bddebian> After talking with crimsun_ I have just started marking the old bugs as Need Info... Ah, OK, thanks
[03:56] <mdz> bddebian: I miss things that don't have my name in them
[03:57] <bddebian> OK, sorry
[03:57] <mdz> TheMuso: looks fine, go ahead
[03:58] <mdz> I hope gobby is working better than it was for us in montreal ;-)
[03:58] <TheMuso> ok thanks.
[03:59] <ogra> mdz, it should :)
[03:59] <TheMuso> Well I have been playing with a patched gobby and it seems to be fine now with a11y which is great.
[04:03] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:41] <mako> Burgwork: around?
[05:49] <jdub> BenC: haha
[05:49] <jdub> "Obvious sync to upstream-linux git."
[05:50] <desrt> woh.
[05:50] <desrt> that's a lot of updates.
[06:31] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[07:49] <jsgotangco> good afternoon
[07:49] <Hobbsee> hey jsgotangco 
[08:59] <sivang> morning
[09:03] <G0SUB> sivang: hello :)
[09:03] <sivang> hi G0SUB , how you bee?
[09:04] <G0SUB> sivang: pretty bad :( Internet outage for 4 days here 
[09:04] <G0SUB> sivang: see this ``Punish your M$ devel'' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry7u6JF_B1c
[09:05] <G0SUB> awefully funny
[09:15] <pitti> Good morning
[09:15] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[09:15] <fabbione> morning pitti
[09:16] <Hobbsee> hi pitti 
[09:18] <pitti> hey Hobbsee 
[09:18] <pitti> moin ajmitch, hi fabbione 
[09:21] <crimsun_> 'morning, pitti 
[09:22] <pitti> hey crimsun_ 
[09:24] <sivang> morning pitti ,fabbione 
[09:24] <fabbione> Mr. Sivang
[09:26] <sivang> err
[09:27] <pitti> infinity: 'mktemp' now has a separate package? what happened/will happen to debianutils?
[09:28] <infinity> pitti: debianutils pre-denends on mktemp.
[09:28] <infinity> depends, too.
[09:28] <infinity> mktemp is from a different upstream, so keeping it in debianutils isn't sane.
[09:28] <pitti> oh, in 2.16
[09:52] <pitti> G0SUB: ah, you are already here?
[10:08] <Fjodor> Would there be any sense in making a small init script to run depmod -ae on system startup? It doesn't seem to be run on installing own builds of e.g. nvidia-kernel...
[10:09] <Fjodor> Running it at boot is done in LFS, dunno about others, hence the idea
[10:09] <infinity> Fjodor: We don't run it on boot intentionally.
[10:10] <infinity> Fjodor: It should be run when kernels and modules are installed, not at every boot.
[10:10] <Fjodor> Well, it isn't run on installing own builds of nvidia-kernel from ubuntu sources
[10:10] <infinity> Can you file a bug for me about that?
[10:11] <infinity> The nvidia-kernel-source package needs a lot of love. :/
[10:11] <Fjodor> infinity: Certainly. What is the url again?
[10:11] <infinity> More bugs would be helpful.
[10:11] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15/+filebug
[10:14] <Fjodor> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15/+bug/49955
[10:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49955 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 "depmod -ae isn't run on user built install" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[10:17] <Fjodor> My initial idea of running depmod on boot would help me since I use madwifi-ng, but I can see the idea behind the current practice. Running it with a version argument is just something I have to remember then
[10:21] <mdke> morning
[10:21] <pitti> hi md
[10:21] <pitti> hi mdke 
[10:30] <siretart> buildds again on manual?
[10:30] <fabbione> yes
[10:30] <fabbione> and they will stay that way for a little while
[10:59] <pitti> infinity: I assume python-minimal is not available in the buildd chroots?
[11:05] <infinity> pitti: I would assume it is..
[11:05] <infinity> Priority: required
[11:05] <pitti> infinity: but not essential
[11:05] <infinity> Let me go look to be sure.
[11:05] <pitti> infinity: it's for the question whether I implement our super-power dh_strip with debug symbol extraction in python or good ol' shell
[11:05] <pitti> shell should be good enough, though
[11:06] <infinity> root@sejong:~# dpkg -l python\* | grep ^i
[11:06] <infinity> ii  python-minimal    2.4.2-0ubuntu3 A minimal subset of the Python language (def
[11:06] <infinity> ii  python2.4-minimal 2.4.3-0ubuntu4 A minimal subset of the Python language (ver
[11:06] <pitti> oh, yay
[11:07] <infinity> apt screams if I try to remove it.  I'm pretty sure "Required" means "required". :)
[11:07] <pitti> infinity: anyway, thanks
[11:08] <infinity> Note that libc6 isn't Essential either. :)
[11:08] <\sh> hmm...autosyncs are started? if so, is there something wrong with auto-changes ml?
[11:08] <pitti> infinity: that's a dependency :)
[11:08] <infinity> Shh. :)
[11:08] <pitti> \sh: oh, are they?
[11:10] <\sh> pitti: that's the reason I ask ;)
[11:11] <infinity> pitti: Hrm, I'd read policy the same way you did, actually.
[11:11] <infinity> pitti: But I never remove Required packages from the chroots.
[11:11] <infinity> pitti: So, up to you...
[11:12] <pitti> infinity: right, procps was the case I got a bug report for
[11:12] <infinity> pitti: Of course, the fact that you said this was a dh_ thing leads to believe it should be in perl anyway. :)
[11:13] <pitti> infinity: hm, but there was a reason why we didn't implement pkgstriptranslations in perl
[11:13] <infinity> pitti: Oh, hrm.  Good point.  procps didn't used to be in my chroots, and now it is...
[11:13] <infinity> pitti: I wonder if something's gone odd here.
[11:13] <pitti> infinity: AFAIR we did it for packages which did not use debhelper
[11:13] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, pkgstrip should ideally be in shell, but if you're writing dh_ helpers, they should be in Perl, IMO.
[11:14] <pitti> infinity: it's a dh_strip wrapper, similar to dpkg-deb
[11:14] <pitti> infinity: so, if our pkgbinarymangler can depend on debhelper, I don't have a problem with it
[11:14] <pitti> in fact it would make things much easier
[11:15] <infinity> Oh, wait, no, procps isn't meant to be there, I'm in dirty chroot.
[11:15] <infinity> python-minimal is.
[11:15] <infinity> Package: python-minimal
[11:15] <infinity> Essential: yes
[11:15] <pitti> ^ oops, right
[11:15] <infinity> I missed the Essential flag, cause I was looking at python2.4-minimal
[11:16] <pitti> infinity: ok, so unless you see a reason to not depend on dehelper in pkgbinarymangler, I'll use Perl
[11:16] <infinity> pitti: Er, I don't think it's a good ideal to have the mangler depend on debhelper, no.
[11:17] <infinity> pitti: That just pulled in a mess of stuff into every chroot, even for non-dh builds.
[11:17] <pitti> do we care?
[11:17] <pitti> for the < 5% non-dh packages?
[11:17] <infinity> I care, because debhelper gets stuck in bootstrap loops.
[11:17] <pitti> ah, ok
[11:17] <infinity> Which are a pain to break when it must be installed all the time.
[11:18] <pitti> so, python shall it be then, ok?
[11:18] <infinity> If you'd rather do that than shell, sure. :)
[11:18] <infinity> I prefer shell, but I'm insane.
[11:18] <infinity> If you asked jbailey, he'd tell you to do it in make.
[11:19] <pitti> prolog!
[11:19] <infinity> If you intend for this to ever be used in Debian, use shell or perl-base.
[11:19] <infinity> If it's only for us, shell, perl-base, or python-minimal are all fine.
[11:19] <pitti> ok
[11:19] <pitti> well, shell should work
[11:19] <pitti> bit messy, though
[11:20] <infinity> Yoy really fear perl-base, don't you? :)
[11:20] <infinity> s/Yoy/You/
[11:20] <pitti> actually not
[11:20] <pitti> postgresql-common :)
[11:21] <infinity> (I find shell quite readable as long as we're not dealing with millions of lines, so I'm fine with that... initramfs-tools, for instance, all makes sense to me and is simple to work with)
[11:24] <ivoks> pitti: let's backport cups 1.2.1 to dapper and offer it for testing, what do you say?
[11:25] <pitti> ivoks: I'd remove the ssl cert magic from the current edgy version
[11:25] <pitti> ivoks: (for dapper-updates)
[11:25] <ivoks> pitti: and gutenprint 5rc3 solves some lexmark issues
[11:25] <ivoks> pitti: nod
[11:25] <pitti> ivoks: and, didn't you tell me about a new ps2ps or so?
[11:25] <ivoks> pitti: alternate ps2ps :)
[11:25] <pitti> ivoks: I can easily cherrypick with subversion
[11:26] <ivoks> pitti: it's been there for a while, but i don't think we need it
[11:26] <ivoks> pitti: well, if we backport some issues to rc2, would it be ok to put 5.0 (final release) in -updates, once it goes out?
[11:27] <ivoks> pitti: dapper had some edgy printing technology :)
[11:27] <pitti> ivoks: depends on the amount of changes
[11:27] <ivoks> pitti: of course
[11:28] <ivoks> rc3 had some _major_ changes
[11:29] <ivoks> pitti: All printers supported by Gutenprint are now listed explicitly 
[11:29] <ivoks> rather than via the compatibility list. As a result, CUPS PPD 
[11:29] <ivoks> files and Foomatic are now generated for each supported printer.
[11:29] <ivoks> ups, sorry... linebreak...
[11:42] <ivoks> pitti: http://cups.org/newsgroups.php?s1791+gcups.commit+v1797+T0
[11:42] <ivoks> pitti: there are some bugs fixed in svn, regarind pstops
[11:43] <pitti> ivoks: that patch is simple enough
[11:44] <ivoks> pitti: there is one more... i'm trying to find it
[11:47] <ivoks> pitti: http://cups.org/newsgroups.php?s1771+gcups.commit+v1774+T0
[11:47] <ivoks> pitti: this solves some backend issues
[11:48] <ivoks> pitti: this one isn't quite trivial :)
[11:48] <pygi> pitti, just found bonfire being in ITP
[11:48] <pitti> ivoks: urgh
[11:48] <pygi> I am trying to find the guy that submited it
[11:49] <pitti> ivoks: this is a merge commit, maybe you can find the split-out patches in trunk?
[11:49] <ivoks> pitti: http://cups.org/newsgroups.php?s1771+gcups.commit+v1773+T0 ? :)
[11:50] <pitti> ivoks: that patch sounds like 'rewrite the way we handle stuff'
[11:50] <ivoks> yes
[11:53] <ivoks> pitti: part II is about serial backend
[11:53] <ivoks> pitti: bottom line, all backends are affected
[11:53] <pitti> doesn't sound particularly appealing...
[11:53] <ivoks> i know
[11:54] <ivoks> this is why 1.2.2 was started...
[11:54] <ivoks> we can leave it out
[11:54] <pitti> ivoks: hm, let's put 1.2.1 into dapper then and wait until 1.2.2 is finished and saw some testing
[11:54] <ivoks> and package 1.2.2 for edgy, when it comes out
[11:54] <pitti> ritht
[11:54] <ivoks> pitti: lol nod
[11:56] <ivoks> pitti: w or w/o pstops patch?
[11:56] <pitti> ivoks: that one is fine
[11:56] <ivoks> ok
[11:57] <ivoks> pitti: btw, cherrypicking lexmark fixes for ~rc2 gutenprint is hell
[11:57] <ivoks> pitti: i've tried that, but gave up... :)
[12:03] <ivoks> btw, vmware-player-kernel needs rebuild :)
[12:15] <pitti> mvo: do you have some time to fix dapper's vmware-player-kernel for the current dapper-security kernel?
[12:15] <mvo> pitti: is a rebuild not enough?
[12:15] <pitti> mvo: well, should, but it could use some testing
[12:15] <fabbione> mvo: please coordinate with infinity 
[12:15] <mvo> pitti: sure, lets do it
[12:16] <pitti> mvo: did you read G0SUB's meeting proposal? are you fine with 15:00 CEST?
[12:16] <mvo> pitti: yes, I replied a couple of minutes ago 
[12:17] <ivoks> rebuild is fine
[12:17] <ivoks> i'm using my own rebuild and works ok
[12:17] <fabbione> pitti, mvo: please coordinate with infinity .. he has other fixes too fo rit
[12:23] <infinity> mvo: A rebuild for -kernel is fine, the fixes I need to make are in -player.
[12:26] <mvo> infinity: ok, thanks
[12:26] <mvo> pitti: I'm on it, I do the testing now
[01:32] <zul> yay!
[01:32] <fabbione> sparc iso image is out :)
[01:32] <fabbione> WWOWOWOOWOWOW
[01:32] <zul> yay
[01:32] <fabbione> now.. an announce
[01:33] <zul> cdimage.ubuntu.com?
[01:33] <fabbione> releases.ubuntu.com/dapper/
[01:34] <zul> getting now
[01:34] <zul> :)
[01:34] <ogra> pfft, no server-live-sparc images ? thats lame  
[01:39] <pitti> ogra_: harsh, isn't it? :)
[01:40] <KaiL_> ..who killed udev for edgy? ;)
[01:40] <Keybuk> "killed" ?
[01:40] <KaiL_> doesn't install clean
[01:41] <fabbione> KaiL_: it will in few hours.. now sit back and relax please
[01:41] <Keybuk> KaiL_: edit /var/lib/dpkg/info/udev.postinst and change my_per... to mv_per...
[01:41] <Keybuk> (and get me new glasses :p)
[01:42] <ogra> *giggle*
[01:42] <KaiL_> lol
[01:42] <Keybuk> it won't work after reboot anyway
[01:42] <Keybuk> so I wouldn't hurry too much
[01:43] <KaiL_> means "don't even thing about rebooting that system"? ;)
[01:46] <pitti> grrrr @ dpkg-genchanges
[01:46] <pitti> iwj: do you have a minute?
[01:47] <pitti> or Keybuk?
[01:47] <Keybuk> 'sup?
[01:48] <pitti> Keybuk: I'm currently hacking on a dh_strip wrapper which will automatically create -dbgsym packages (external debug symbols) at build
[01:48] <pitti> Keybuk: of course they do not appear in debian/control
[01:48] <Keybuk> is that different to -dbg ?
[01:48] <pitti> Keybuk: not very, but I did not want to clash with the namespace
[01:48] <pitti> Keybuk: just as initial test for now
[01:48] <pitti> Keybuk: i. e. I create a ../cdbstest2-dbgsym_2.3-1_amd64.deb
[01:48] <Keybuk> right, they won't appear in debian/control
[01:49] <pitti> Keybuk: which does not appear in d/control
[01:49] <Keybuk> not unless you add them
[01:49] <pitti> so, dpkg-genchanges barfs:
[01:49] <pitti> dpkg-genchanges: error: package cdbstest2-dbgsym amd64 has section utils in control file but raw-debug in files list
[01:49] <pitti> Keybuk: i. e. it takes the 'default' Section: from the Source stanza
[01:49] <pitti> Keybuk: instead of actually looking into the .deb
[01:50] <pitti> Keybuk: would it be possible/wise to modify dpkg-genchanges to not do this?
[01:50] <Keybuk> I think it would be unwise
[01:50] <Keybuk> that's a reasonable sanity check
[01:50] <Keybuk> usually you want it to error if an unexpected deb gets produced
[01:51] <pitti> Keybuk: that already happens
[01:51] <pitti> dpkg-genchanges: warning: package cdbstest2-dbgsym listed in files list but not in control info
[01:51] <pitti> and so on
[01:51] <pitti> Keybuk: but this particular Section: error makes no sense to me
[01:51] <Keybuk> *shrug* ask Ian on that one
[01:52] <pitti> ok, I will
[01:52] <infinity> pitti: Why are you doing it as a deb anyway?
[01:52] <pitti> thanks so far
[01:52] <pitti> infinity: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReports
[01:52] <infinity> pitti: If it wasn't, then dpkg-genchanges wouldn't care about it at all.
[01:52] <pitti> We will use deb files as container for debug symbols. Compared to flat files, they offer the following advantages:
[01:52] <pitti>     *
[01:52] <pitti>       They can be arranged in a proper pool structure with a Packages file etc., so that existing tools to mirror, download, and ship debs can be reused. (However, we will not put them into the regular distribution. They should either live on a separate server (debug.ubuntu.com) or at least in a different suite (like "breezy-debug").
[01:52] <pitti>     *
[01:52] <pitti>       Users can actually install them if they want to.
[01:52] <pitti> infinity: when I wrote that spec, this seemed like a good idea to me
[01:53] <pitti> infinity: similar to language packs
[01:53] <infinity> Hrm, yes, the second point makes it make sense to have them be debs.
[01:53] <pitti> infinity: I wouldn't deny the advantage of easy cd-rom builds, mirroring, etc. either
[01:53] <infinity> You could work around dpkg-genchanges by tossing all the debug debs for a source package into one big tarball, but that feels icky.
[01:54] <infinity> (Very icky)
[01:54] <Keybuk> comm -23 <(comm -23 <(sed -n -e "/^Package:/s/.*: //p" Debian_unstable_main_Sources | sort) <(cat ../ubuntu/dists/edgy/main/source/Sources.gz ../ubuntu/dists/edgy/universe/source/Sources.gz | gunzip -c | sed -n -e "/^Package:/s/.*: //p" | sort)) <(sed -e "s/ *#.*//;/^ *$/d" /srv/launchpad.net/dak/sync-blacklist.txt | sort)
[01:54] <Keybuk> woohoo!  fear my shell!
[01:54] <Kinnison> comm?
[01:54] <infinity> comm == the bomb.
[01:54] <pitti> infinity: if I use normal tarballs, then I can still create them per-deb; that seems orthogonal to me
[01:54] <Keybuk> comm is what people should be using when they use diff and grep out the + or - lines :)
[01:54] <Kinnison> keybuk: My unix-fu is surprisingly weak in places
[01:55] <infinity> pitti: No, I was saying you could create foo_debug.deb, libfoo_debug.deb, foo-tools_debug.deb, and put them all in foosrc_debug.tar.gz
[01:55] <ogra> comm == mom ??
[01:55] <pitti> infinity: oh
[01:55] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I see, I'll read the manpage
[01:55] <infinity> pitti: So the archive can untar it and deal with them in a special way, but the package builds seem them as opaque by-hand crap.
[01:55] <pitti> infinity: that's a lot of unpacking and repackaging
[01:55] <Keybuk> Kinnison: don't worry ... I just showed that to another friend, and his comment was "you can cat gzipped files together?!" :p
[01:56] <pitti> infinity: I'll talk with Ian then; if he thinks modifying dpkg-genchanges is a bad idea, I'll consider this workaround
[01:57] <infinity> pitti: Well, your other really perverse option is to concatenate your stuff on the end of debian/control on the fly. ;)
[01:57] <Kinnison> Keybuk: heh
[01:57] <pitti> infinity: I feared to speak it out
[01:57] <pitti> infinity: that would even work on the buildds, but would horribly break on local builds
[01:57] <infinity> Yes, hence why it's wrong.
[01:57] <infinity> Pretty much non-reversible with a clean.
[01:58] <infinity> So, a non-option.
[01:58] <pitti> infinity: yet another 3v1l idea:
[01:58] <infinity> But the "big by-hand tarball" thing would work fine.
[01:58] <pitti> infinity: since I already divert dh_strip, I could divert dpkg-genchanges as well, and have it process a temporary debian/control with the -dbgsym stuff added
[01:58] <pitti> infinity: at least initially for my local testing, until we agree to a better solution
[01:59] <infinity> Are we going to divert all of dpkg/dpkg-dev in edgy? :)
[01:59] <pitti> right now it sucks to not be able to continue
[01:59] <infinity> I've created a monster.
[01:59] <pitti> infinity: we'll find more :)
[02:01] <Keybuk> bugger, sync-source can't infer requestor
[02:02] <infinity> infer it from what?
[02:02] <Treenaks> Where can I translate (or fix translations of) the localised browser "homepages"?
[02:02] <infinity> Random guesses?
[02:02] <Treenaks> The Dutch translation is bad.. and the translations aren't in the ubuntu-artwork package, it seems
[02:13] <logan77666>  got a queation - on Dapper Drake I have raise_on_click option in gconf for metacity disabled but it still raises my windows - can anyone confirm ?
[02:14] <mdke> Treenaks: they are in ubuntu-docs. Send me a corrected html file if you want
[02:14] <pitti> infinity: ok, my private dpkg-genchanges approach worked fine so far :) so I can continue with the actual guts of debug symbols
[02:14] <thom> logan77666: not the right channel
[02:15] <Treenaks> mdke: ok, will do
[02:24] <Keybuk> hmm, where's path_id gone?
[02:37] <mdke> mdz: would it be ok to upload a new ubuntu-docs for dapper-updates, no changes except for translation updates?
[02:39] <Keybuk> almost certainly
[02:43] <Keybuk> \sh: I couldn't find any way of persuading Launchpad to send the sync mails there instead
[02:43] <Keybuk> and I was tired, so couldn't be bothered anymore :p
[02:50] <Keybuk> Kinnison: actually, for future reference, how does one do that?
[02:53] <\sh> Keybuk: no problem
[02:53] <Keybuk> and there were over 3,000 of them -- it seemed better to just not send then :p
[02:56] <ogra> Keybuk, hehe, BzrMaintainedPackages shows student-control-panel moved secretly to main :)
[02:56] <Keybuk> ogra: meh, put it in the right place then
[02:57] <ogra> it will move to main in edgy ... mdz made it a high prio spec
[02:57] <Keybuk> ok
[02:57] <Kinnison> Keybuk: Erm, you can set the changes list on the commandline IIRC
[02:57] <ogra> btw, could somebody NEW ltsp-manager ?
[02:58] <Keybuk>   -a ANNOUNCELIST, --announce=ANNOUNCELIST
[02:58] <Keybuk>                         Override the announcement list with ANNOUNCELIST
[02:58] <Keybuk> oh yeah
[02:58] <Keybuk> meh
[02:58] <\sh> Keybuk: btw, now you are here...the bzr maintainer howto, did I understand it correctly, that I only need to push an ssh pubkey to launchpad and I can publish via bzr to launchpad?
[02:59] <Keybuk> you need to register your ssh public key in Launchpad, not "push" it :)
[02:59] <Keybuk> but yes
[02:59] <G0SUB> pitti: 13:00 UTC now :)
[02:59] <pitti> oh, indeed
[02:59] <pitti> G0SUB: hello!
[03:00] <G0SUB> pitti: #synaptic :)
[03:00] <\sh> Keybuk: cool..thx
[03:00] <Keybuk> \sh: https://launchpad.net/people/shermann/+editsshkeys
[03:01] <pitti> G0SUB: noone there
[03:01] <G0SUB> pitti: strange, mvo & me are already talking
[03:01] <G0SUB> pitti: we saw you come in
[03:04] <ogra> wheee, a small openoffice replacement !
[03:04] <ogra> http://www.faber-castell.de/docs/index-news.asp?id=14507&sp=E&m1=10329&m2=20551&m3=24486&m4=14507&m5=&domid=1010
[03:05] <_ion> ogra: Vim + LaTeXsuite? :-)
[03:06] <ogra> _ion, see the link :)
[03:07] <ogra> sasdly it doesnt integrate well with latex
[03:07] <_ion> It's still loading.
[03:07] <ogra> (they even point it out in the drawbacks section ;) )
[03:10] <HiddenWolf> _ion: amen
[03:10] <hunger> _ion: IIRC that is called TeX.
[03:11] <hunger> _ion: Even though the "easy" part of TeX is debateable:-)
[03:11] <_ion> hunger: IIRC i said "easy". :-) The grandmother isn't going to use TeX.
[03:11] <_ion> s/The/The hypothetical/
[03:12] <_ion> Personally i use and love TeX.
[03:12] <ogra> the grandmother is more likely to use the above i linked ;)
[03:12] <hunger> _ion: TeX was written for a secretary... so it was supposed to be easy... and I actually think it is. Maybe a stripped down  LyX or something would be better for your hypothetical grandmother:-)
[03:13] <_ion> Ok, the page loaded. Hehe, funny.
[03:14] <ogra> YAY
[03:14] <ogra> Keybuk, THANKS !
[03:15] <bddebian> Heya folks
[03:18] <Keybuk> no worries
[03:37] <ivoks> pitti: so, 1.2.1 for dapper will have ssl support or not?
[03:37] <pitti> ivoks: yes, it's a simple matter of creating /etc/cups/ssl
[03:37] <ivoks> pitti: i'm not sure that's enough
[03:37] <ivoks> pitti: iirc, there was something missing in configure
[03:39] <pitti> ivoks: WFM here
[03:39] <pitti> ivoks: it's already built with gnutls and everything
[03:40] <ivoks> ok then
[03:41] <ivoks> pitti: i was just looking at diff beetwen 09_runasuser_autoconf.dpatch
[03:42] <ivoks> pitti: 1.20 doesn't have LIBGNUTLS, ans 1.21 has :)
[03:42] <pitti> ivoks: oh, hm, I did the tests with 1.2.1
[03:42] <kagou> hi
[03:42] <pitti> ivoks: but since we want this version anyway, I don't see a problem
[03:42] <pitti> hi kagou 
[03:42] <ivoks> ah, right :)
[03:42] <ivoks> sorry, i had wine for lunch :)
[03:44] <\sh> Mithrandir / fabbione / infinity: Congratulations for Ubuntu Sparc :) 
[04:00] <iwj> `The configuration of this system is obtuse, even by djb-style standards' ROTFL  (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReplacementInit of runit)
[04:02] <mvo> iwj: do you think your automaticTesting work (xen
[04:03] <mvo> iwj: do you think your automaticTesting work (xen+lvm) can be re-used for the distupgradetesting as well?
[04:05] <iwj> mvo: Yes, the Xen parts of it (which are the least well-developed but which I really want to work on in Edgy).
[04:05] <Keybuk> iwj: I was feeling charitable :p
[04:05] <zul> iwj: i was going to try to get the kenerl patches in edgy's kernel this weekend
[04:06] <iwj> zul: Cool.
[04:06] <iwj> How are they ?  When I installed Xen here it was still a case of needing a particular kernel version and ramming it all together.
[04:09] <iwj> SudoAdminAtspi> `[name-deleted-to-protect-the-guilty] : just an idea, try executing xhost + as user before starting the admin tool'   Wow, it's like it's 1989 again.
[04:11] <Keybuk> iwj: btw I do somewhat agree with your comment that daemons should give the option to stay in the foreground, etc.
[04:12] <Keybuk> but when they don't, there is usually a way (pid file, or just executable name) to know which pid file to look for
[04:12] <Keybuk> so there is definitely an advantage to being pid#1
[04:12] <iwj> Yes, but also a disadvantage in that you can't transition so easily.
[04:12] <Keybuk> transition?
[04:12] <iwj> You have to reimplement all of the init stuff before you get anywhere.
[04:13] <iwj> And your reimplementation might not be quite right at first, etc.
[04:13] <Keybuk> init is easy to reimplement, it's probably the smallest process in the known universe
[04:13] <iwj> Heh.  Weird shit with signal handlers and fds and process groups and ...
[04:13] <iwj> Anyway, I'm not sure I have a clear opinion yet but I think we should argue it out in Paris.
[04:13] <Keybuk> indeed
[04:14] <Keybuk> when do you get there, btw?
[04:14] <iwj> Recently I've invented a few daemons which need controlling ttys and they turn out to be really really convenient despite having to run them with screen -x tty31 out of init in a barking kind of way.
[04:14] <HiddenWolf> keybuk is just looking forward to making edgy unbootable. ;)
[04:15] <iwj> I'll be at the hotel for dinner on Sunday; I'm spending the weekend in Paris with Clare (Boothy).
[04:15] <Keybuk> ah, fair enough; jbailey was looking for people this weekend -- he flew in early
[04:15] <iwj> In fact, I should stop faffing with specs soon and start packing.
[04:25] <Keybuk> heh, initNG scares the shit out of me ... I made a mistake and read its code
[04:25] <lifeless> has the bleeding stopped ?
[04:26] <Keybuk> yes, but I'm on the bleeding edgy now
[04:26] <ogra> haha
[04:26] <Hobbsee> haha...hope you fix it soon Keybuk :P
[04:26] <thom> poor pun #3397
[04:26] <Hobbsee> bit hard to develop if it wont boot
[04:27] <Keybuk> thom: it actually started off as a typo, but I kept it
[04:27] <Keybuk> it's slightly hard to type "edge" at the moment
[04:27] <_ion> hobbsee: Use a chroot. :-)
[04:27] <pitti> Keybuk: autofingers already? after just a week? :)
[04:27] <Keybuk> pitti: I've been replying "edgy" to things for months!
[04:27] <Hobbsee> _ion: could do that :P
[04:27] <Hobbsee> _ion: in fact, i did that for breezy
[04:27] <Hobbsee> er, dapper
[04:28] <Hobbsee> whatever is the current stable
[04:28] <_ion> "How are you?"  "Edgy."
[04:28] <iwj> Keybuk: code is complicated, or code is bad ?
[04:28] <_ion> "What's for dinner?"  "Edgy."
[04:28] <iwj> Time to pack, definitely.
[04:28] <Keybuk> iwj: *bad*
[04:28] <doko> you're leaving today?
[04:28] <Keybuk> like "check the end of the buffer?  nah"
[04:29] <Keybuk> "check the file we've been asked to dlopen?  nah"
[04:30] <Keybuk> PYTHON IS LOVE
[04:30] <Keybuk> we needed python in / anyway
[04:30] <Keybuk> actually, did you see that the FCNewInit _is_ written in Python?
[04:30] <Keybuk> and is fully dbus compliant
[04:30] <pitti> Keybuk: that wasn't meant sarcastic :) in fact, it's why we put p-minimal into essential
[04:30] <Keybuk> (everything is a dbus service)
[04:30] <iwj> doko: Yes, I'm having the weekend in Paris.
[04:31] <pitti> iwj: enjoy, and have a good trip
[04:31] <doko> iwj: enjoy!
[04:31] <Keybuk> pitti: yes, but you forgot to put it on the root filesystem <g>
[04:31] <pitti> Keybuk: dbus> that's a little more scary
[04:31] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, true
[04:32] <Keybuk> it's not called keybukinit anyway
[04:32] <Keybuk> I thought of a much cooler name
[04:32] <Keybuk> and it begins with "u" too :)
[04:32] <doko> Keybuk: we can change that ...
[04:32] <pitti> Keybuk: uberinit?
[04:32] <Keybuk> no, but that's cool :p
[04:33] <ivoks> it's called u
[04:33] <ivoks> :)
[04:33] <jdub> yay, i have flights that won't leave me stranded in europe for a month!
[04:34] <Keybuk> this does nothing for my nih reputation though :-/
[04:34] <Keybuk> which is ironic, because I really really did look at everything in an attempt not to
[04:35] <thom> Keybuk: sure sure
[04:42] <mdke> jdub: that would be bad?
[04:43] <Keybuk> jdub: bah; what's wrong with Europe?
[04:43] <Keybuk> I'm sure silbs would LOVE to have you at the London office every day
[04:44] <Seveas> who to poke for sparc bugs?
[04:44] <jsgotangco> hi!
[04:44] <Keybuk> fabbione 
[04:44] <Seveas> ok, will subscribe him to the bugs 
[04:44] <fabbione> Keybuk: no.. -> distro
[04:44] <fabbione> Keybuk: for server software
[04:44] <fabbione> for non-server -> me
[04:44] <Keybuk> fabbione: do we have a sparc porting box in the DC? :)
[04:44] <fabbione> Keybuk: yes, 3
[04:44] <fabbione> + 3 buildd
[04:45] <Keybuk> ooh, what hostnames?
[04:45] <fabbione> Keybuk: see the machine list.. faure
[04:45] <Seveas> fabbione, bug 49994, who to subscribe to that one?
[04:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49994 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS Sparc Installation Fails with Illegal Instruction on Sun Blade 100" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49994
[04:45] <Keybuk> cute
[04:45] <fabbione> Keybuk: the other 2 will be available once i am done on monday
[04:46] <jdub> Keybuk: it would actually be quite good to spend some time at the office, but i can't just do it on a whim
[04:46] <Keybuk> jdub: even a whim of Qantas? :)
[04:46] <jdub> Keybuk: thai / air france this time
[04:46] <fabbione> Seveas: it depends..
[04:46] <zul> thai airways is good
[04:47] <Keybuk> ah, thai ... the airline where you really _can't_ tell the sex of the air stewards
[04:47] <jdub> yeah, which is nice
[04:47] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:47] <jsgotangco> jdub: are you still in au?
[04:47] <jdub> jsgotangco: yeah
[04:47] <Keybuk> no, seriously, I know a guygirl who's a thai air steward
[04:47] <Keybuk> or stewardess
[04:47] <fabbione> Seveas: that machine is known to work with netboot.. it has been tested and there is already a bug for silo for that
[04:47] <zul> Keybuk: i think the term is stewardperson
[04:47] <jsgotangco> jdub: i'm flying 10 hours from now
[04:48] <seb128> Keybuk: have you planned to look on the dapper-updates waiting packages today? :)
[04:48] <jdub> jsgotangco: oh rad, will be good to see you :)
[04:48] <Seveas> fabbione, thanks, will try and find that bug and tell the user
[04:48] <rpedro> hello
[04:48] <fabbione> Seveas: bug #40119
[04:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40119 in silo "SPARC boot failed: Illegal Instruction" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40119
[04:48] <Keybuk> seb128: nope
[04:48] <seb128> Keybuk: ok
[04:49] <Keybuk> seb128: should I?
[04:49] <rpedro> just had the strangest crash/kernel panic while using nautilus
[04:49] <fabbione> Seveas: the difference between i386 and sparc is that the BIOS (OBP) on sparc either works or doesn't. There is no gray area like broken acpi...
[04:49] <Keybuk> seb128: I'm doing Debian new sources at the moment; will look into it afterwards
[04:49] <seb128> Keybuk: up to you, the new gdm uploaded some days ago by dholbach has a regression fixed by the new gdm waiting but no hurry
[04:49] <rpedro> I had just finished rebooting after updating kernel etc in dapper, and was using firefox
[04:50] <Seveas> fabbione, sounds like fun
[04:50] <Keybuk> seb128: accepted
[04:50] <seb128> Keybuk: thank you
[04:50] <fabbione> Seveas: you want to start teaching people to ask for OBP verrsions and prtconf -p -v output on sparc
[04:51] <rpedro> and then when i called nautilus and started using it, when opening a folder the screen just froze for a second, then went blank
[04:51] <fabbione> Seveas: that's more or less the equivalent of lspci and dmidecode :)
[04:51] <Seveas> will do some magic in blousey
[04:51] <HiddenWolf> rpedro: please file a bug, it is noise here that is impossible to respond correctly to.
[04:51] <Seveas> hope it gets in the archive soon 
[04:51] <Keybuk> ooops
[04:52] <rpedro> HiddenWolf: I just wanted to know what files I need to see to figure out what happened to cause the crash
[04:53] <rpedro> HiddenWolf: then I can file a bug if something turns up, and I also goinng to see if it's reproduceable
[04:53] <HiddenWolf> rpedro: best see in #ubuntu-bugs, I think.
[04:53] <rpedro> HiddenWolf: ok thx
[04:55] <bgertzfield> Grumble, grumble...
[04:57] <pitti> Keybuk: can you please NEW vmware-player-kernel-modules-2.6.15 in dapper-security?
[04:57] <fabbione> pitti: are they already out of jackass?
[04:57] <phanatic> mdz: ping
[04:58] <pitti> fabbione: yes
[04:58] <pitti> fabbione: I just got the LP archive upload mail with the NEW messages
[04:58] <Keybuk> pitti: I only see two architectures
[04:58] <Keybuk> is that normal?
[04:58] <pitti> yes
[04:58] <pitti> i386 and amd64
[05:00] <Keybuk> ok
[05:00] <Keybuk> NEW'd
[05:03] <highvoltage> jdub: ubuntu planet seems to be showing very old posts
[05:03] <jdub> ploum spammed it
[05:04] <fabbione> jdub: !
[05:06] <jsgotangco> planet ploum heh
[05:06] <highvoltage> just blame it on ploum :)
[05:06] <jdub> i deleted the cache file, so it'll be gone on next update
[05:07] <jsgotangco> jdub: how long is your flight?
[05:07] <Hobbsee> hehe.  i liked that spam thing :P
[05:07] <jdub> jsgotangco: 9:25 and 12:00
[05:08] <jsgotangco> 17 hours?
[05:08] <jdub> (the planet conspires against me)
[05:08] <Keybuk> only 2 and a half hours?
[05:08] <Keybuk> you guys complain over nothing! :D
[05:09] <jdub> at least i'll have the mental satisfaction of being in a proper tomorrow when i get there
[05:09] <jdub> unlike going to the USA
[05:10] <Keybuk> actually, how _do_ those times work?
[05:10] <Keybuk> I can't figure out the math
[05:10] <Keybuk> you leave at 0925 Sydney (0825 Paris) and arrive at 1200 Paris the next day?
[05:11] <Keybuk> uh, 0125 Paris
[05:11] <fabbione> Keybuk: 9:25 h to Singapore -> 12:00 to Paris
[05:11] <Keybuk> ahhh
[05:11] <Keybuk> duh
[05:11] <fabbione> it's 21:25 minutes of flight at least
[05:11] <Keybuk> that's why the math doesn't work :p
[05:11] <fabbione> + 30 minutes stop in Singapore
[05:11] <fabbione> ehehe
[05:11] <jsgotangco> hehehe
[05:11] <jdub> see, he's having trouble
[05:11] <jdub> because he's thinking in parallel
[05:11] <fabbione> add one hour to checkin in .au
[05:12] <fabbione> and 4 hours to get out of CDG
[05:12] <jdub> Keybuk: i told you not to muck with those kiddieinit systems!
[05:12] <jsgotangco> 4 hours???
[05:12] <jdub> fabbione: an hour in bangkok
[05:12] <Keybuk> I have some baht you could spend
[05:12] <Keybuk> 200 baht, I think
[05:12] <Keybuk> so about 20 UK pence ... or 80 AU$ :p
[05:12] <jdub> i have some too, luckily ;)
[05:13] <highvoltage> 20 uk pence = 80 UA$ !?
[05:13] <fabbione> jdub: have fun..
[05:13] <fabbione> i am off for the weekend
[05:13] <Keybuk> highvoltage: given the amount of complaining they do about the prices, it must be
[05:13] <pitti> fabbione: enjoy the weekend
[05:13] <highvoltage> fabbione: enjoy
[05:13] <highvoltage> Keybuk: heh
[05:13] <fabbione> thanks guys
[05:13] <zul> c ya fabbione 
[05:13] <Keybuk> it's like to translate any currency into Norwegian Kroner, always raise by a power of 2
[05:14] <jdub> i spend at least 100 pounds on sushi last time i was at the office
[05:14] <ogra> TheMuso, did you ping pkern about your gobby fixes ? he'll likely be intrested
[05:14] <jdub> i could've fed myself and most of my apartment building for a month on that
[05:15] <Keybuk> jdub: where you buying entire whales?
[05:16] <mdke> jdub: it's kept at a high price to persuade more decent people to buy fish and chips
[05:16] <Keybuk> I've yet to find a fish and chips shop within a mile of the London office :-/
[05:16] <mdke> sushi is low in the essential oils that you can only get from fish and chips
[05:17] <Keybuk> I did find a *GREAT* noodle shop down in Chelsea though
[05:19] <highvoltage> Keybuk: i regret that i didn't get some authentic fish & chips when i were in london :(
[05:19] <hunger> highvoltage: fish and chips is severly overrated.
[05:19] <jdub> Keybuk: itsu.
[05:19] <Hobbsee> hunger: never!
[05:20] <jsgotangco> fugu
[05:20] <mdke> yeah, it's not overrated
[05:20] <hunger> highvoltage: I went to a really good place in london (according to the locals) and it still wasn't something I need to eat again.
[05:20] <ogra> hunger, because you are german
[05:21] <hunger> ogra: What does that have to do with it? My tastebuds were killed over sauerkraut and schweinshaxe?
[05:21] <ogra> yeah :)
[05:21] <hunger> Bye, have to run...
[05:21] <highvoltage> hunger: i like cape town fish and chips, and londonners say theirs are better, while capetonians say that cape town fish and chips are better. so it's a bit controversial, hence the reason why i want to see for myself :)
[05:22] <hunger> ogra: sauerkraut and schweinshaxe is way more overrated than fish and chips by the way.
[05:22] <hunger> See you around.
[05:22] <ogra> hunger, ich weiss ;)
[05:31] <jdub> Keybuk, lifeless: try feeling lucky for "hoverbook" :-)
[05:33] <jsgotangco> oxford heh
[05:36] <lifeless> jdub: awesome. Boy am I glad I have been dieting...
[05:37] <jdub> lifeless: :-)
[05:37] <jdub> lifeless: satisfying to see old pictures
[05:37] <lifeless> getting to be
[05:38] <jdub> all you need now is a haircut and you'll be HAWT
[05:39] <bddebian> heh
[05:41] <lifeless> jdub: 10kg to go..
[05:41] <lifeless> jdub: THEN I think about a haircut
[05:42] <sladen> lifeless: I think a haircut would only make a few hundred grammes difference.  (Unless it was *really* greasy).
[05:42] <lifeless> sladen: lol.
[05:42] <lifeless> sladen: for my hair now, not even that
[06:27] <doko> Keybuk: is there a blacklist for package, which we do not want to sync?
[06:28] <Keybuk> yes
[06:28] <Keybuk> ish
[06:31] <doko> Keybuk: how do I add something to it?
[06:31] <Keybuk> tell me
[06:33] <doko> python2.3-doc, python2.4-doc
[06:33] <doko> must go in unstable to non-free (b-d on latex2html), but has in edgy the preprocessed docs included
[06:34] <Keybuk> you know we don't sync from non-free right?
[06:35] <doko> hmm, ok, fine :-)
[06:36] <doko> but maybe we should for some ... bison-doc, and all the GFDL -doc packages
[06:37] <Keybuk> we can do if you like
[06:37] <Keybuk> so the reason to not sync python*-doc is we put more in our packages?
[06:38] <Keybuk> Source: python2.4
[06:38] <Keybuk> uh, dude
[06:38] <Keybuk> you know we sync _SOURCES_ right? :p
[06:38] <Keybuk> oh, those are new sources
[06:38] <Keybuk> ignore me
[06:38] <Keybuk> la la la
[06:38] <ogra> heh
[06:38] <doko> Keybuk: ...
[06:39] <doko> Keybuk: right, the preprocessed docs are included in the dapper package
[06:39] <Keybuk> I need to ask the X SWAT TEAM what to do about these X syncs
[06:39] <Keybuk> fabbione: are you there?
[06:40] <fabbione> Keybuk: no. ask infinity in Paris directly. He has plans. i am not on X for all of edgy.
[06:40] <ogra> Keybuk, didnt he refuse to touch it in edgy ? 
[06:40] <fabbione> no as i am not here
[06:40] <fabbione> personally edgy can be on framebuffer-gl
[06:41] <ogra> heh
[06:41] <highvoltage> there is such a thing!?
[06:41] <fabbione> highvoltage: dunno... do i sound like one that cares? :)
[06:41] <highvoltage> heh :)
[07:13] <mdz> mdke: an ubuntu-docs upload with translation updates is perfectly ok for dapper-updates
[07:14] <mdz> Keybuk: does that missing path_id business mean that my system isn't bootable now?
[07:17] <ogra> ha !
[07:17] <Keybuk> mdz: were you using /dev/disk/by-path for anything?
[07:21] <mdz> Keybuk: nope
[07:21] <Keybuk> then, no
[07:21] <mdz> nothing uses it by default, right?
[07:21] <mdz> ok
[07:21] <Keybuk> right
[07:22] <LaserJock> ogra: \o/
[07:23] <ogra> :)
[07:34] <sladen> mdke: what happened to the Laptop Testing Template.  It appears to have no history anymore.  Did it get deleted?
[07:35] <sladen> mdke: (the same happened at the Montreal conference)
[07:35] <jjesse> sladen: there was some discusion on #ubuntu-doc about it, somehow it got all messed up?
[07:40] <sladen> 00
[07:40] <sladen> oops
[07:56] <mdz> is anyone working on the intltool-debian merge to unblock The World?
[08:01] <Keybuk> I think everybody's asleep
[08:06] <dieman> im not sleeping
[08:06] <dieman> but im without power
[08:19] <ivoks> ok, i did some work on redhat's GUI printer managment tool
[08:19] <ivoks> if anyone is interested...
[08:20] <ivoks> (in screenshots :)
[08:23] <Gloubiboulga> ivoks, does it depend on GNOME libs?
[08:24] <ivoks> Gloubiboulga: it's python
[08:25] <ivoks> so, pygtk :)
[08:25] <Gloubiboulga> cool, we need a tool like this in Xubuntu :)
[08:25] <ivoks> Gloubiboulga: we need it in ubuntu too :)
[08:26] <ivoks> Gloubiboulga: http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/g-c-m-replace/
[08:26] <ivoks> Gloubiboulga: don't be harsh to UI, it needs some love :)
[08:27] <ogra> a lot :)
[08:27] <ivoks> :)
[08:27] <ogra> i wouldnt give it to my mom as is :)
[08:27] <_ion> Looks promising.
[08:28] <Gloubiboulga> I agree with _ion :)
[08:28] <_ion> Albeit written in python. ;-)
[08:29] <ivoks> that's it for today
[08:30] <ivoks> maybe i'll create some packages by the end of the week
[08:30] <ivoks> see you
[08:32] <\sh> can someone explain, why an initial release just hit dapper-updates? (multiverse)?
[08:32] <\sh> speaking of desktop-multiplier
[08:32] <LaserJock> because it didn't make it in before release
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> somebody uploaded one?  (I was going to ask the same wtf? about dapper-updates, some of the language-pack-* changelogs say "initial release")
[08:32] <\sh> ugh
[08:34] <_ion> bluefoxicy: I think the language-pack-* changelogs have said "initial release" for each new release since day -42.
[08:34] <bluefoxicy> I know :P
[08:34] <LaserJock> langpacks are being updated once a month, as I understand it
[08:35] <\sh> well, it scared me ;)
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> I know, what else did we get today, a whole new Gnome release?
[08:35] <\sh> bluefoxicy: that was planned
[08:36] <bluefoxicy> the version numbers on some of these things scare me more though
[08:36] <bluefoxicy> one of them was like 1:1.2.8.is.2.7.0
[08:36] <LaserJock> desktop-multiplier was supposed to go in before release but it couldn't get reviewed in time
[08:37] <bluefoxicy> I guess that's oneo f the nuances of debian package management
[08:37] <bluefoxicy> Gentoo had this lovely system to deal with that
[08:37] <\sh> LaserJock: wouldn't it be better, to push those things as dapper-backports? (ok, it's in multiverse...so likley not installed by the masses ;))
[08:37] <bluefoxicy> if a version of a package suddenly was gone, or marked unstable ("we figured out this breaks stuff, you shouldn't use it")
[08:37] <bluefoxicy> then portage would try to "upgrade" to the next lower version, if there were no stable marked higher versions :>
[08:38] <LaserJock> \sh: perhaps, it wasn't exactly up to me though ;-)
[08:38] <bluefoxicy> apt-get just flat refuses to downgrade
[08:38] <bluefoxicy> "repo has 0.1 but I have 0.1.1, so 0.1.1 I'll call 'local or obsolete' and make you uninstall it before upgrading to the repo one"
[08:39] <bluefoxicy> but anyway, enough of this.
[08:39] <mdke> sladen: I moved it
[08:39] <\sh> ok..now where is my phone..I'm hungry
[08:39] <ogra> dont eat phones
[08:40] <mdke> sladen: if you want a template to appear in the "template" column when you create a new page, it has to be named "BlahTemplate", so I moved it there, and made the old page a redirect
[08:40] <ogra> they are to heavy for your stomach
[08:40] <ogra> and may have sharp edges
[08:40] <\sh> ogra: right, but it's good for phoning a pizza taxi
[08:41] <ogra> :)
[08:43] <sladen> mdke: yes, and if you look at that page, you'll see it's not a Template.  Which is the reason that the name doesn't end in "Template" but in "/Template"
[08:43] <mdke> sladen: right. However, many people get confused because when they click on the laptop testing template, they don't get one
[08:43] <mdke> sladen: so I decided it would be better to provide a template
[08:44] <sladen> mdke: I did originally make it a Template about a year ago;  but then that page got deleted and elmo/heno weren't able to get the backup of that Template back;  so we reverted to the out-of-date non-Template version
[08:45] <mdke> sladen: now there is a template, and it looks like someone has updated it
[08:45] <sladen> mdke: Rename ; Edit  will do that without blowing away the revision history
[08:45] <mdke> sladen: sorry, can you explain what you mean?
[08:46] <mdke> I didn't rename anything. I simply edited the two pages
[08:46] <HiddenWolf> mdke: do you have any idea when documentation will move to the new wiki?
[08:46] <sladen> mdke: it would be handy to have the revision history for pages when changes happen;  rather than deleteing and loosing the meta-data
[08:46] <mdke> sladen: dude. I didn't delete anything, I edited the two pages. Don't dump on me for the wiki software
[08:47] <mdke> HiddenWolf: it's waiting on the admins
[08:47] <sladen> mdke: if it's just edits;  what caused the history to disappear.  Do you know if moinmion was updated?
[08:47] <sladen> HiddenWolf: "new wiki"?  Wiki take #5 is this?
[08:48] <HiddenWolf> sladen: I was referring to moving docs to help.ubuntu.com
[08:48] <mdke> sladen: it wasn't updated. And the revision history is still there, now that I've just looked
[08:48] <mdke> sladen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Template?action=info and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeamTemplate?action=info
[08:49] <sladen> mdke: the revision history had approximately 100+ edits...
[08:49] <mdke> sladen: well, as you can see, my edits did not change the revision history
[08:49] <mdke> probably someone renamed the page or something a few revisions back
[08:51] <mdke> I'm not clear on why you dumped that on me, to be honest
[08:52] <mdke> Treenaks: any luck with that translation?
[08:52] <sladen> mdke: you are da man for things related to the wiki and generally have a hold on the situation
[08:53] <sladen> mdke: (as well as being the last person to edit both pages)
[08:53] <mdke> sladen: ah, i see. I misunderstood then: I thought you were suggesting that my edits had nuked the revision history.
[08:54] <mdke> no probs
[08:54] <mdke> sladen: btw, I have an idea, hang on a tic
[08:56] <ogra> Keybuk, is your mom spamming my inbox ? 
[08:57] <ogra> or is that actually you ? 
[08:57] <jpatrick> ogra: both
[08:58] <ogra> oh, no, its all NEW stuff i see ...
[08:58] <\sh> I want to see MoM too ;)
[08:59] <Keybuk> hmm, is queue ignoreing my -A ?
[08:59] <\sh> ok..changing places...brb
[08:59] <Keybuk> grr
[08:59] <mdke> sladen: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTesting?action=show and see what you think of that idea
[08:59] <Keybuk> those were _supposed_ to go to the autosync list
[09:02] <sladen> mdke: oooh.  groovy.
[09:03] <sladen> mdke: does that automatically take them to the page if it exists already?
[09:03] <mdke> sladen: yeah, it will open it for editing whether it exists or not, I think
[09:04] <mdke> sladen: oh shit, actually it will give them a new template. Lemme rethink that...
[09:06] <\sh> re
[09:08] <_ion> ogra: Perhaps the changelog itself is licensed under GPL. ;-)
[09:08] <ogra> heh
[09:11] <Keybuk> if iwj did it, he probably had a very good reason
[09:11] <Keybuk> mdz: bah, you did intltool-debian?
[09:22] <\sh> oh wow...edgy is really open for business ;)
[09:30] <sladen> mdke: could it be a custom Function, eg.  NewPageFromTemplateIfDoesntExist()
[09:34] <mdke> sladen: probably there is a way to fix the macro yeah, maybe there is a newer version around that is a bit cleverer, I will look
[09:36] <mdke> sladen: yeah, there is a patch. I'll poke henrik
[09:44] <Symmetria> hrm, lo all
[09:45] <Symmetria> question for the developers, anyone here hit major bugs with 2.6.16? I think there is a major memory leak in the networking code
[09:46] <crimsun_> specifically 2.6.16 from upstream (kernel.org)? The majority of the network code is from .15
[09:46] <Symmetria> crimsun_, I aint tested back with .15, Im trying to figure out when the code changed so I can roll back to that kernel if the support for the stuff I need exists in the old kernels
[09:47] <Symmetria> but very basically: http://pastebin.com/711927
[09:47] <Symmetria> if you adjust your tcp window sizes, and push heavy traffic (200mbit+) 
[09:47] <Symmetria> especially on tg3 and e1000 gig nics 
[09:47] <Symmetria> you're gonna hit major problems
[09:47] <Symmetria> I aint tested on other gig nics, but I know on that specific hardware it dies
[09:48] <Symmetria> and the patch that I did test off the net didnt fix the problem at all
[09:48] <crimsun_> Symmetria: better addressed in #ubuntu-kernel
[09:49] <Symmetria> crimsun thanks, was looking for a channel I could address it in
[10:04] <jbailey> mdz: Hey - did you get any further than underscores burning a hole in your retina?
[10:04] <jbailey> mdz: I just want to check before I dive in.
[10:09] <mdz> jbailey: no, sorry.  I got caught up in other things
[10:10] <jbailey> mdz: All good, thanks!
[10:24] <mdke> damn, I miss the old days where it was possible to raise severity of your own bug
[10:26] <LaserJock> mdke: you just need to become a core-dev and you wouldn't have to worry about it ;-)
[10:26] <mdke> LaserJock: good plan.
[10:27] <bradb> mdke: i was just talking to jbailey about bug anger meters. i need one too: https://launchpad.net/bugs/50039
[10:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50039 in kmail "[Data Loss]  KMail mysteriously changes messages to "No Subject", "Unknown" sender" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[10:27] <mdke> bradb: I don't think a bug in kmail can be anything more than "wishlist"
[10:28] <mdke> bradb: but surely being the author of the bug tracking system you can find some loophole to get access to the importance
[10:28] <jbailey> mdke: Err.  Dataloss is a pretty serious event, whether we're lkely to care about it or not.
[10:29] <mdke> ah didn't read that. Joke was in poor taste then
[10:30] <mdke> sorry bradb 
[10:30] <mdz> mdke,LaserJock: no, you need to join the QA team
[10:30] <bradb> mdke: no worries :)
[10:31] <bradb> mdke: just curious: what are your reasons for wanting to change the severity of bugs you report?
[10:31] <mdke> bradb: regression since release
[10:31] <mdke> seems to be quite common
[10:31] <hunger> mdke: How about regressions between releases?
[10:32] <mdke> hunger: that isn't my case
[10:32] <mdke> mdz: I can't join the team just to triage my own bugs, and I'm unlikely to find time to triage too many other people's, except for ubuntu-docs bugs
[10:33] <mdz> mdke: you should be able to triage ubuntu-docs bugs; is that not working?
[10:34] <mdke> mdz: actually, I haven't checked. If I can, even less justification
[10:34] <mdke> mdz: no, I can't.
[10:34] <mdz> mdke: bradb ^^^
[10:34] <mdke> these are ubuntu-docs bugs in the distro I'm talking about though
[10:34] <mdke> not upstream ones
[10:35] <mdz> right
[10:35] <mdz> but you're a bug contact for the ubuntu-docs source package
[10:35] <mdz> so you should be able to triage the bugs
[10:35] <mdke> right, ok.
[10:35] <mdke> well, sounds like I should file a bug
[10:36] <bradb> mdz: the Importance perms consider only distro.bugcontact currently, not package bug contacts. if package contacts could edit them, then effectively anyone can edit importance.
[10:37] <bradb> of course, if that doesn't bother you, i more than happy to change it
[10:38] <mdz> bradb: package bug contacts should be able to change importance for bugs on their packages
[10:39] <mdz> (and yes, I realize they could move the bug to a different package, but I'm really not concerned)
[10:40] <bradb> or they could just become a package contact for that package and change the importance
[10:40] <mdz> bradb: do you have a better proposal?
[10:41] <mdz> the idea of restricting importance is to prevent people from frivolously changing it; I think it's OK if it isn't airtight
[10:41] <mdz> but I'll think about it a bit
[10:41] <mdz> mdke: how many other people do you expect are in the same position?
[10:42] <bradb> mdz: i don't have a better proposal, i'm just pointing out the side effects so you're aware of them
[10:42] <mdz> bradb: how about the Maintainer and Creator?
[10:42] <mdke> mdz: you mean people who take an active interest in specific packages without uploading them, and don't have time for general triaging? Probably not many - I would have thought joining ubuntu-qa is a reasonable solution
[10:43] <mdz> mdke is both of those for ubuntu-docs
[10:43] <mdz> I have no idea where Creator comes from
[10:43] <mdz> but surely the maintainer should be able to triage bugs?
[10:43] <mdke> me neither, I think both those fields change on a regular basis
[10:43] <ogra> there is a bug open about it
[10:44] <ogra> should be renamed to "uploader"
[10:47] <ogra> yes, but Creator is a very confusing naming scheme
[10:48] <Keybuk> we should drop the Maintainer: field from all packages in the ubuntu archive
[10:48] <ogra> that too
[10:58] <johanbr> Hi. I have some wishes/thoughts/ideas regarding PAM, but I couldn't find an appropriate spec or wiki page and I'm not sure that my ideas are coherent enough to merit a page of their own. What do you suggest?
[11:14] <TheMuso> ogra: I will now that the changes have been published.
[11:14] <ogra> great :)
[11:21] <tseng> BenC: woo regparm!
[11:21] <tseng> BenC: i can use dell openmanage now
[11:22] <tseng> BenC: thanks
[11:26] <Keybuk> gnargh, I hate how much setting up X-Chat takes
[11:27] <Keybuk> better
[11:27] <NickGarvey> gaim and me get along pretty well..
[11:27] <ogra> just copy your old config over
[11:28] <Keybuk> ogra: I like to at least be vaguely aware of any new useful defaults
[11:32] <jdub> Keybuk: tried xchat-gnome? like / don't like? i haven't tried it for a while, probably should.
[11:33] <Keybuk> jdub: tried briefly enough to not like it
[11:34] <ogra> jdub, can i put the userlist on the right side finally ? 
[11:34] <jdub> i dunno
[11:34] <jdub> i don't use it
[11:34] <Keybuk> jdub: nope, still don't like it
[11:37] <Chipzz> Keybuk: I know why I'm using irssi ;)
[11:38] <Keybuk> jdub: I actually use X-Chat because it reminds me of AmIRC
[11:38] <_ion> Ah, good ol' AmIRC.
[11:38] <Keybuk> ya know, it's _really_ bad that I have to use "xlogo" as part of my "setup a new desktop" procedure
[11:39] <Chipzz> Keybuk: xlogo??
[11:39] <Keybuk> yes
[11:39] <Keybuk> Mr Havoc Pennington decided that window managers don't need to tell you how large a window is while you resize it
[11:39] <Chipzz> c'est quoi? :)
[11:39] <Keybuk> so the only way I can get firefox to be 800x600 is to fireup xlogo -geometry 800x600 and measure firefox over the top of it
[11:39] <Keybuk> :p
[11:39] <Chipzz> lol :)
[11:39] <_ion> :-D
[11:39] <ogra> Keybuk, doesnz devilspie add such a feature ? 
[11:39] <Chipzz> why use 800x600 anyway?
[11:40] <tseng> Keybuk: or start firefox with -geometry
[11:40] <tseng> Chipzz: uh
[11:40] <ogra> *doesnt
[11:40] <jdub> Keybuk: "sick"
[11:40] <Keybuk> tseng: but then firefox doesn't remember it!
[11:40] <tseng> Chipzz: to judge pages on lower resolution?
[11:40] <Keybuk> Chipzz: because then the browser feels a nice size on the screen
[11:40] <Chipzz> tseng: I've used 800x600 for a long time, but even I moved off it
[11:40] <_ion> keybuk: Sounds like a bug.
[11:40] <Chipzz> it's just not in common use anymore
[11:40] <tseng> Chipzz: not the guy in the cube across from me
[11:40] <tseng> whatever, way ot
[11:41] <Chipzz> idd