[04:23] <coz_> evening all
[04:23] <coz_> has the edubuntu forums openied up yet
[04:23] <coz_> opened
[07:09] <flint> good morning...
[07:10] <flint> Anyone out there got any idea how to get the dhcp daemon started on an install copy of 6.06?
[07:17] <HedgeMage> flint: you're better off asking on the mailing list... almost everyone is getting ready or on their way to the Paris conference
[07:17] <spacey>  /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start
[07:17] <spacey> and i'm off to rotterdam
[07:17] <spacey> so good luck
[07:18] <flint> HedgeMage, thanks, I am staying here in the wilds of Vermont, going to Maine to teach at the NorthEast Linux Symposium, eat lobster and drink beer...
[07:18] <HedgeMage> sheesh, everyone's going somewhere fun but me :P
[07:18] <flint> spacey, Rotterdam is actually fairly nice if you like good Cheese and large supertankers...
[07:19] <spacey> lol
[07:19] <crimsun_> HedgeMage: not really :)
[07:19] <spacey> rotterdam is not fun
[07:19] <spacey> its work
[07:19] <spacey> and i just have to hope to work is fun :P
[07:20] <crimsun_> HedgeMage: I'm here debugging a resume from suspend-to-RAM issue, and I have to renew my clearance next week. Probably less fun than anything. ;)
[07:20] <spacey> clearance?
[07:20] <crimsun_> security clearance, blame these stupid grants
[07:20] <HedgeMage> crimsun_: heh, I'm hoping my GS/NAF and contractor days are over.
[07:21] <flint> HedgeMage, why do you think I am in Vermont kido?  I will not do this for those people.
[07:22] <flint> HedgeMage, BTW GS what?
[07:22] <flint> HedgeMage, typically an integer < 15.
[07:33] <HedgeMage> flint: GS == General Schedule, it is a type of civilian that works for the US government
[08:35] <flint> HedgeMage, Indeed... the range of General Schedule jobs starts at 1 and goes to 15 each GS Grade has 10 "steps" or at least it did until the Bush Administration took over... :^)
[08:35] <HedgeMage> hehe
[08:37] <flint> HedgeMage, I am presuming that you are a fellow contractor... No government person would care about anything after 17:00, or more likely 14:30.
[08:38] <HedgeMage> lol
[08:38] <HedgeMage> flint: former
[08:38] <HedgeMage> quit my job when my son was kidnapped by his sitter and my boss demanded I return to work immediately anyway
[08:38] <flint> HedgeMage, same here.
[08:39] <flint> HedgeMage, still in DC?
[08:39] <HedgeMage> Washington state
[08:40] <flint> HedgeMage, It is much better where you are.  I did my time. 
[08:40] <flint> Now a refugee.
[08:41] <flint> HedgeMage, gotta sleep my dear... thanks for all your help.  I appreciate use of the name.
[08:41] <HedgeMage> ttyl :)
[08:42] <flint> sksk
[10:33] <juliux> good morning
[11:16] <DanielC> morning
[11:20] <juliux> morning DanielC 
[11:20] <DanielC> hey
[11:21] <DanielC> Does anyone know if sound works better in standard LTSP than it does on Edubuntu thin clients?
[11:21] <DanielC> My employer is not happy about the fact that sound won't work because this is important for schools and he asked me to find out if using Red Hat would be better.
[12:04] <dibblego> hello
[12:05] <ogra> DanielC, did you get totem and RB working now ? 
[12:05] <ogra> dibblego, hi
[12:06] <dibblego> is edubuntu appropriate for a 5 year old who likes learning stuff?
[12:06] <dibblego> he currently uses plain GNOME ubuntu with some maths applications
[12:06] <ogra> sure it is 
[12:07] <dibblego> I don't understand why it is an entire OS and not just a bunch of educational software
[12:07] <ogra> gcompris and the tux4kids stuff is targeting that age
[12:07] <dibblego> I might give it a shot, thanks
[12:08] <ogra> the edubuntu-desktop package is that bunch of edu software you men 
[12:08] <ogra> *mean
[12:08] <dibblego> oh right, so it replaces GNOME?
[12:08] <ogra> edubuntu itself is a bit more than just edu software :)
[12:08] <dibblego> ok
[12:08] <ogra> nope it uses gnome, but adds edu software and younger default artwork
[12:09] <dibblego> ok, I'll play, cheers
[12:09] <ogra> :)
[12:30] <DanielC> ogra: Hi. What's RB?
[12:30] <ogra> rhythmbox
[12:30] <DanielC> ogra: Ah. No, I didn't :(
[12:30] <ogra> i was to lazy to type that long name 
[12:31] <DanielC> I've been trying to trouble shoot the sound thing, but without success.
[12:31] <ogra> have a look at /etc/mozilla-firefox/mozilla-firefoxrc
[12:31] <ogra> check if changing auto to esd or to esddsp solves it
[12:32] <DanielC> The closest match I find is /etc/firefox/firefoxrc
[12:33] <ogra> might be ok
[12:33] <DanielC> The only line is.  FIREFOX_DSP="none"  So I'll set that to "esd".
[12:33] <ogra> yeah
[12:33] <ogra> or esddsp
[12:33] <DanielC> And reboot the thin client?
[12:33] <ogra> just restart firefox in the session
[12:34] <DanielC> ok
[12:38] <DanielC> This is so weird. Now firefox won't start. It says
[12:38] <DanielC> unrecognized option: /usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin
[12:38] <DanielC> unrecognized option: -a
[12:38] <DanielC> unrecognized option: firefox
[12:38] <DanielC>  /usr/lib/firefox/firefox is a script, I'm taking a look at it, but I haven't touched it since installation.
[12:42] <DanielC> Ok, the problem has something to do with setting FIREFOX_DSP="esd" on firefoxrc
[12:42] <DanielC> If I put it back to "none" then Firefox starts normally.
[12:42] <DanielC> So it's a bug in the firefox script.
[12:44] <ogra> nope
[12:44] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/29760
[12:45] <ogra> try esddsp instead
[12:46] <DanielC> ok
[12:49] <DanielC> ogra: firefox starts... I'm waiting for the sample flash movie to load.
[12:52] <DanielC> Firefox crashed :(
[12:52] <ogra> ok
[12:52] <ogra> any errors if you start it from commandline ?
[12:53] <DanielC> Just a "Bus error"
[12:54] <DanielC> Hmm... it crashes when I try to bookmark a page.
[12:54] <DanielC> So it's not the sound per se.
[12:55] <DanielC> Actually... changing FIREFOX_DSP makes firefox not crash when I bookmark a page.
[12:58] <ogra> did you try my suggestion from yesterday ? 
[12:58] <ogra> running: esddsp firefox
[12:58] <DanielC> The test page I'm using loads fine when FIREFOX_DSP is "none" but doesn't load when it's "esddsp".
[12:59] <ogra> did thyt crash as well ? 
[12:59] <DanielC> ogra: Yes, but I had problems. It didn't crash (but then, I didn't try to bookmark a page) but the page still didn't load.
[01:00] <DanielC> Looks like it makes Firefox freeze actually. I just tried closing the window and it wouldn't, so I had to kill it.
[01:03] <DanielC> I just tested a bit more. It seems to behave the same when I run "esddsp firefox" and when I set FIREFOX_DSP="esddsp".  Firefox seems to download the Flash video but not play it, and Firefox becomes less stable.
[01:03] <ogra> ok
[01:04] <ogra> try: export LD_PRELOAD="/usr/lib/libesd.so.0 /usr/lib/libesddsp.so.0"
[01:04] <ogra> and run firefox then
[01:04] <DanielC> In /etc/firefox/firefoxrc or on the terminal?
[01:04] <ogra> inj the term
[01:05] <ogra> oh, wait
[01:05] <ogra> the second path is wrong
[01:05] <ogra> /usr/lib/esound/libesddsp.so.0
[01:05] <DanielC> ok
[01:05] <ogra> thats the right one for libesddsp
[01:08] <DanielC> Same behaviour (and I ran `ls $LD_PRELOAD` to make sure typed it right).
[01:09] <ogra> same means ? 
[01:09] <ogra> it crashes ? 
[01:09] <DanielC> ogra: It only crashes firefox when I try to bookmark.
[01:09] <ogra> does it play any sound in flash if you dont bookmark ? 
[01:10] <DanielC> ogra: Flash itself seems to start, and then just freeze (the Flash). No, it never plays a sound.
[01:10] <DanielC> The Flash itself seems to start, but about 1/2 of a second into it, seems to freeze.
[01:10] <ogra> echo $ESPEAKER shows your client ip and port 16001 ?
[01:11] <DanielC> Yes: 192.168.17.247:16001
[01:11] <DanielC> (which is the correct IP for the client)
[01:11] <ogra> yeah
[01:12] <ogra> try: esddsp --server=192.168.17.247:16001 firefox
[01:12] <DanielC> ok
[01:15] <DanielC> Behaves different. Although I can't hear sound, flash doesn't crash.
[01:15] <ogra> ok
[01:15] <ogra> close ff
[01:16] <DanielC> ok
[01:16] <ogra> then: export ESDDSP_MIXER=1
[01:16] <ogra> then try again
[01:16] <DanielC> ok
[01:18] <DanielC> No luck. Flash freezes up again.
[01:18] <DanielC> (running just "firefox")
[01:18] <ogra> no
[01:18] <ogra> run it like above
[01:19] <DanielC> ok
[01:19] <DanielC> Works fine (except for sound) Flash doesn't freeze.
[01:19] <ogra> the original soundscript did the following (before friefox was changed completely that worked (see the bug link i posted above):
[01:20] <ogra> export ESPEAKER=${LTSP_CLIENT}:16001
[01:20] <ogra>  export ESDDSP_MIXER=1
[01:20] <ogra> export LD_PRELOAD="/usr/lib/libesd.so.0 /usr/lib/libesddsp.so.0"
[01:21] <ogra> with that sound worked fine, until firefox was changed out of security reasons
[01:21] <DanielC> Hmm...
[01:21] <ogra> hmm, wait
[01:22] <ogra> it can be that flash expects a libesd.so.1 to be available, there was a bug once...
[01:23] <ogra> try: sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libesd.so.0 /usr/lib/libesd.so.1
[01:23] <DanielC> ok
[01:23] <ogra> and run  esddsp --server=192.168.17.247:16001 firefox again
[01:26] <DanielC> Still no sound.
[01:26] <DanielC> Should totem-gstreamer produce sound before Flash does or are these totally independent things?
[01:28] <DanielC> ie. it is possible for Flash to work with sound but totem-gstreamer not produce sound, right?
[01:29] <ogra> we just try to force flash to use the esd daemon on the client directly
[01:29] <ogra> so they are unrelated
[01:29] <DanielC> Ok. Thanks.
[01:29] <DanielC> Well, Flash is the one that matters... 
[01:29] <ogra> what you could try would be switching to epiphany for a test
[01:29] <DanielC> sure
[01:30] <ogra> it wraps the flash plugin differently 
[01:30] <ogra> hmm
[01:30] <DanielC> I'm running "aptitude install epiphany".
[01:30] <ogra> i wonder if we should try something else, i'm not sure ff will pick up the exported LD_PRELOAD
[01:31] <DanielC> Epiphany installed.
[01:31] <ogra> LD_PRELOAD="/usr/lib/libesd.so.0 /usr/lib/libesddsp.so.0" esddsp --server=192.168.17.247:16001 firefox
[01:31] <ogra> what if you call it like that ? 
[01:31] <ogra> in one long line
[01:32] <ogra> lol
[01:32] <ogra> no
[01:32] <ogra> its epiphany-browser :)
[01:32] <DanielC> :)
[01:33] <ogra> we'll very likely switch to it in edgy
[01:33] <DanielC> Wait... you mean that whole thing as on eline?
[01:33] <ogra> and drop ff by default
[01:33] <ogra> yeah
[01:33] <DanielC> Should there be an && before esddsp?
[01:33] <ogra> nope
[01:33] <DanielC> ok...
[01:34] <ogra> you can try the same again if it doesnt work but with libesd.so.1 instead of 0
[01:34] <ogra> if that doesnt work either my only hope is epiphany
[01:36] <DanielC> I see several lines of:
[01:36] <DanielC> ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/libesddsp.so.0" from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignore
[01:36] <ogra> err
[01:36] <ogra> indeed, wrong path
[01:37] <ogra> /usr/lib/esound/libesddsp.so.0
[01:37] <ogra> sorry, pasted the wrong line
[01:38] <DanielC> No errors, but no luck either.
[01:40] <ogra> did you also try with libesd.so.1 instead of 0 ?
[01:40] <DanielC> No, I didn't. I'll try that.
[01:40] <DanielC> Btw: epiphany runs the movie without it freezing (but no sound).
[01:41] <ogra> ok
[01:41] <DanielC> libesd.so.1 => no change
[01:43] <ogra> :/
[01:44] <ogra> i'm out of ideas ... my only suggestion is to contact iwj to ask him how to change it
[01:44] <DanielC> Who is iwj?
[01:45] <ogra> but he's travelling to paris currently and nobody of us will be able to do much apart from writing specs next week
[01:45] <ogra> the firefox maintainer
[01:45] <DanielC> Should I tell him anything more specific than that sound doesn't work and what we did to try to fix it?
[01:46] <ogra> he knows that, see the bug
[01:46] <DanielC> ok
[01:46] <DanielC> Yes, I skimmed through the bug.
[01:47] <DanielC> Well, thanks a lot for the help and for spending so much time on this.
[01:48] <DanielC> My employer would like to know if this is probably an Ubuntu-specific issue of if we're likely to hit the same problems in other LTSP imlementations.
[01:49] <ogra> as i understand it its a generic firefox issue
[01:49] <DanielC> ok, thanks
[01:49] <DanielC> Is this a problem with firefox or the proprietary plugin? (or a bit of both?)
[01:49] <ogra> as the bug says it will be solved if macromedia switches from directly accessing the (totally obsolete) /dev/dsp directly
[01:50] <ogra> which is announced for flash 8.5 ...
[01:50] <DanielC> Ok. So it's at least partly macromedia. Any idea when that change might happen?
[01:50] <ogra> but flash 8.5 will not be released for linux before autumn
[01:50] <DanielC> ok
[01:51] <ogra> (i think they even want to skip 8 and only release 9 for linux)
[01:51] <DanielC> Well, the important thing is that it will be fixed in the forseable future.
[01:53] <ogra> DanielC, "Users who find this inconvenient can turn the hack back on but may
[01:53] <ogra> of course find that their browser is unstable."
[01:53] <ogra> thast from the bugreport 
[01:53] <ogra> ask iwj *how* to enable it again
[01:54] <ogra> (he doesnt say that in the bug)
[01:55] <DanielC> back
[01:56] <ogra> i hate to say that and i'm not sure it works at all, but you could try with a firefox from mozilla.org
[01:56] <DanielC> ogra: Ok, I'll ask him. Thanks.
[01:56] <DanielC> It's worth trying. The worse case scenario is that it won't work.
[01:57] <ogra> take the variant that you can install in the users homedir to avoid clashes
[01:57] <DanielC> will do
[01:57] <DanielC> Well, they have only one version. But that version can be installed in the homedir. It's just a tar ball.
[01:58] <ogra> oki
[01:58] <ogra> use that one then
[02:03] <DanielC> ogra: The one from mozilla.com behaves the same in every respect (both when Flash freezes and when it doesn't).
[02:03] <ogra> did you try the different methods we tried before ? 
[02:03] <DanielC> yes I did
[02:03] <ogra> the LD_PRELOAD stuff etc ? 
[02:04] <ogra> also make sure to run the right ff :)
[02:04] <DanielC> Yes. That very long command line, when I ask you about &&. I tried that one.
[02:04] <DanielC> Yes :) I run ./firefox/firefox from the homedir.
[02:04] <ogra> ok
[02:04] <ogra> so its upstream as well
[02:05] <ogra> then redhat likely wont help you
[02:05] <ogra> unless they re-opened the security breakage
[02:05] <ogra> but thats unlikely
[02:06] <DanielC> If it's a minor security breakage I might be willing to go for it. It depends on what it is. It's not like we're likely to have viruses under Linux anyways.
[02:06] <DanielC> Or like there's going to be any critical data on a cyber cafe.
[02:06] <ogra> oh... i'm not sure the mozilla browser was changed in that area, thats probably worth another try
[02:06] <ogra> its a major security breakage
[02:06] <ogra> not minor
[02:07] <DanielC> What is it?
[02:07] <ogra> you can inject code 
[02:07] <ogra> it wont be critical in a cybercafe i guess, but well
[02:08] <DanielC> If I could make it work with the security breakage I'll have a discussion with my employer.
[02:08] <ogra> since its also not working with upstreams firefox, you will likely have to change ff soucrecode and recompile it to even change it ...
[02:08] <DanielC> For a cyber cafe it really shouldn't matter...
[02:08] <ogra> you surely dont want that
[02:08] <DanielC> No, I draw the line at recompiling firefox :)
[02:08] <ogra> yeah
[02:09] <ogra> even on our fastest machines in the datacenter compiling it takes several hours
[02:09] <ogra> try with mozilla-browser as a last resort
[02:10] <ogra> nooo
[02:10] <ogra> there is a package
[02:10] <DanielC> ?
[02:10] <DanielC> ok
[02:10] <ogra> use the package from universe
[02:10] <ogra> or was it main ?
[02:11] <ogra> universe :)
[02:11] <DanielC> How do you find out if a package is on main or universe?
[02:11] <DanielC> Can aptitude tell you that?
[02:11] <ogra> apt-cache madison <package>
[02:11] <ogra> dunno about aptitude since i know nobody who uses it
[02:12] <DanielC> I use aptitude :)
[02:12] <DanielC> Ok, I see it with apt-cache. Thanks.
[02:12] <ogra> yeah, i see
[02:14] <coz_> morning all
[02:20] <coz_> does anyone here know of a link that lists the locations within the US where edubuntu has already been implemented,  what the systems set up for each location required as well as the "switch over" reqirememnts were..ie.. if installed in school, what requirements were needed to be met in terms of software according to state requirements
[02:20] <DanielC> ogra: mozilla is the same: running with the LD_PRELOAD line Flash freezes, running stand-alone Flash runs (without sound), with the plain esddsp --server line Flash runs (without sound). So it's the same as Firefox.
[02:21] <ogra> hmm
[02:21] <ogra> coz_, there is no such list, but you could ask on the edubuntu-users mailinglist
[02:21] <DanielC> So I'll talk to iwj later.
[02:21] <ogra> yep
[02:21] <coz_> orthanks
[02:21] <ogra> i see no other solution atm
[02:21] <coz_> ogra, `thanks
[02:22] <ogra> coz_, youre welcome :)
[02:22] <DanielC> coz_: "switch over" might be too ambitious.
[02:22] <DanielC> coz_: Most schools that implement Edubuntu will use it as a complement to their existing system.
[02:22] <coz_> DanielC, that was one fo the things i was curious about
[02:23] <DanielC> There's too much educational software that won't run on Linux. And sound support on thing clients is spotty at best.
[02:23] <ogra> DanielC, well, there are some that switch over from k12ltsp :)
[02:23] <DanielC> coz_: ok :)  Fully migrations will likely be unexistent.
[02:23] <coz_> DanielC, yeah that was my concern abut this
[02:23] <ogra> thats not true
[02:23] <DanielC> ogra: Do you know of any school that is running only Linux thin clients?
[02:24] <ogra> as i said i know some schools that switched from being k12ltsp to edubuntu
[02:24] <DanielC> But do they not also have non-Linux boxes?
[02:24] <coz_> orga where are these located
[02:24] <ogra> sure, in the use eastcoast ... jelkner, flint and kjcole run some installs at schools
[02:24] <ogra> s/use/US/
[02:24] <coz_> orga what bout libraries 
[02:25] <ogra> kjcole and jelkner run libraries on edubuntu since breezy already
[02:25] <ogra> not many though, three or four each
[02:25] <ogra> they both maintain several schools and public libs
[02:25] <DanielC> From what I can tell, ltsp is a long way off from being a full solution for a school. It only looks viable as part of a larger system (e.g. you could have two labs, one ltsp and one windows).
[02:25] <coz_> so is this being implemented ini third world countried
[02:26] <coz_> countried
[02:26] <coz_> damn countries
[02:26] <DanielC> Libraries are a much simpler setup than schools.
[02:26] <ogra> DanielC, the ltsp.org guys *live* from ltsp installs ...
[02:26] <DanielC> ltsp should work well for a library.
[02:26] <coz_> DanielC, yes because of state requirements for software
[02:26] <ogra> there is a pretty big community 
[02:27] <DanielC> ogra: I'm sure that's true. But that doesn't make it a full solution for a school.
[02:27] <ogra> DanielC, plenty of schools would disagree
[02:27] <ogra> :)
[02:27] <DanielC> coz_: Truth be told, Linux needs software for schools that doesn't exist yet. That's why there is work on SchoolTool and the like.
[02:27] <DanielC> ogra: I'd be interested in learning more about those schools, honestly.
[02:27] <coz_> I used to teach elementary special Ed for a number of years, edubuntu was pretty exciting to me the first time I ran it
[02:28] <coz_> I ws hoping that some schools may have adopted it already
[02:28] <DanielC> If we can make Edubuntu a full solution for schools we'll jump at that opportunity.
[02:28] <ogra> DanielC, you should talk to highvoltage then, TSF runs nearly all schools they are responsible for on ltsp
[02:28] <DanielC> Me and my boss are very strong open source advocates, but it has to work.
[02:28] <coz_> DanielC, I think it is possible for "in class" learning
[02:28] <DanielC> ogra: Ok, I'll ask him.
[02:28] <ogra> DanielC, and iirc that are ~140
[02:29] <DanielC> ogra: 140 schools that use nothing but Linux?
[02:29] <ogra> DanielC, its really a question what you expect and where you are located
[02:29] <ogra> DanielC, yes
[02:29] <coz_> mm
[02:30] <DanielC> ogra: I'm located in the UK. Yes, it's about what you expect. Schools expect several software applications that Linux doesn't have and they expect sound :)
[02:30] <ogra> southamerican, african and asian schools are more likely to run linux based solutions for example 
[02:30] <DanielC> yes
[02:30] <DanielC> true that.
[02:30] <DanielC> When I say "schools" I'm certainly thinking from a UK POV.
[02:30] <coz_> DanielC, sound? I found no problem with sound..
[02:30] <ogra> skolelinux runs ~400 schools on linux solutions (many mixed solutions among them though)
[02:30] <DanielC> coz_: Have you got Firefox to play sound on thin clients?
[02:31] <coz_> DanielC,  no I haven't tried yet
[02:31] <DanielC> ogra: As far as I can see, mixed solutions are all we can reasonably hope for here for now.
[02:31] <ogra> firefox plays sound fine on thin clients ;) flash doesnt
[02:31] <DanielC> coz_: exactly.
[02:31] <DanielC> well...
[02:31] <DanielC> Flash then.
[02:32] <coz_> org ok that will probably change next year
[02:32] <ogra> its neither a prob of ff nor of linux, its a prob of macromedia not opening the source and relying on an soundsystem thats obsolete since 5 years so that can be fixed
[02:33] <ogra> s/can/ant/
[02:33] <ogra> grr
[02:33] <ogra> s/can/cant/
[02:33] <DanielC> :(
[02:34] <coz_> change of subject ... I post a bit of artwork on the forums some of wich is for edubuntu... who are the people responsible for  artwork in edubuntu/
[02:34] <ogra> we have an art team, look at launchpad.net
[02:35] <coz_> ok
[02:36] <coz_> thanks for all the information guys .. having taught for some years i really like the idea of edubuntu so I will probably be back every so often to ask questions ... thanks again
[02:46] <Rondom> too bad that many teachers don't have the abilities to run linux in school
[02:52] <DanielC> Rondom: That may be true, but it's not what I was thinking of just now. It's not the teacher's fault if Linux doesn't have an application for something they need.
[02:53] <Rondom> DanielC: yeah, but my informatics teacher is glad that his arktur-server works
[02:53] <Rondom> you know arktur?
[02:53] <Rondom> it's a slackware based distro for school servers
[02:54] <Rondom> it's pretty old and unmaintained still has php 3 on it....
[02:54] <Rondom> I told him about edubuntu and he didn't want to change a running system
[02:54] <DanielC> Rondom: Ok. I don't understand how this is an example of a teacher not knowing how to use Linux.
[02:55] <DanielC> If he can manage slackware, he's probably reasonably competent.
[02:55] <Rondom> Well, I actually don't want to put edubuntu on the machines, because I don't want to maintain the whole stuff and I doubt anyone will continue doing so after I leave school
[02:56] <Rondom> DanielC: he can't manage slackware
[02:56] <Rondom> he reads tutorials asks in forums
[02:56] <Rondom> asks=asked
[02:56] <Rondom> reads=read :-/
[03:00] <DanielC> yay!
[03:01] <ogra> add the following to the top of /usr/bin/firefox
[03:01] <ogra> if [ ! -e /tmp/.esd/socket ] ; then
[03:01] <ogra> /bin/mkdir /tmp/.esd
[03:01] <ogra> /bin/touch /tmp/.esd/socket
[03:01] <ogra> fi 
[03:01] <ogra> (add the right indedation there)
[03:01] <Rondom> DanielC: you said anything after my last msg?
[03:02] <ogra> now every start of ff will check for it and create it if it doesnt exist
[03:02] <DanielC> Rondom: nope
[03:02] <Rondom> ok
[03:02] <DanielC> ogra: yes, I know bash :)
[03:03] <ogra> but it will be overwritten on firefox upgrades
[03:03] <ogra> so dont forget about that if you have security upgrades :)
[03:03] <DanielC> Yeah... I'll make a note of this.
[03:03] <DanielC> Thanks for the help!!
[03:04] <ogra> also note down the libesd.so.1 link for future reference ;)
[03:04] <DanielC> ok
[03:04] <DanielC> I'll add this to my tips page.
[03:05] <ogra> cool :)
[03:11] <topoor> i have a compaq deskpro as ltsp client with a on borad cirrus graphic card i get only a screen resolution of 640/480
[03:13] <topoor> iput in lts.conf XSERVER         = cirrus  X_MODE_0        = 800x600         X_HORZSYNC      = 30-92  X_VERTREFRESH   = 50-160
[03:14] <topoor> but resolution is still 6400/480 any idea?
[03:15] <rodarvus> good morning
[03:19] <DanielC> ogra: Did you say yesterday that X_MODE was ignored? Might this be topoor's problem?
[03:23] <topoor> DanielC: i read it too X_MODE_0 through X_MODE_2 Not yet implemented but how to change the resolution?
[03:24] <DanielC> topoor: I wish I knew...
[03:24] <DanielC> Someone here ought to know.
[03:24] <DanielC> This is definitely the right place to ask. It's just a bit quiet right now.
[03:25] <DanielC> Maybe because a lot of people are preparing to leave on a trip to Paris for an Ubuntu meeting.
[03:26] <topoor> i solve it: i put  X_COLOR_DEPTH   = 8 and now i get 800X600 strange for me but ... 
[03:26] <topoor> it works
[03:27] <DanielC> cool
[03:27] <DanielC> I'll take a note of that.
[03:28] <topoor> strange and stranger X_COLOR_DEPTH Not yet implemented https://wiki.edubuntu.com/EdubuntuLtsConfParams
[03:28] <DanielC> weird...
[03:32] <topoor> i am testing with X_COLOR_DEPTH   = 16 wait a bit...
[03:38] <topoor> X_COLOR_DEPTH   = 16 it goes back to 6400x480 refresh rate is 85 hz (from 60 to 85 hz)
[03:39] <DanielC> Ok. So it's the color depth then.
[03:39] <DanielC> Might be a limitation in the video card (e.g. too little video memory)
[03:42] <topoor> how can i find out the video memory fo my graphic card?
[03:42] <DanielC> Good question... I'm not sure.
[03:42] <DanielC> If it's anything remotely new then it's not the card.
[03:42] <DanielC> But if we're talking of a 486 computer, then it might be.
[03:43] <topoor> i ty
[03:43] <DanielC> Last time I had to worry about video card memory I was running a 486 computer and pentiums were the latest thing.
[03:44] <topoor> i try to go to /optltsp/i386/proc but the directory is empty, where are the proc of the clients?
[03:44] <DanielC> First create a root account for the clients so you can login locally.
[03:44] <DanielC> You won't see it in /opt/ltsp
[03:45] <DanielC> Run: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
[03:45] <DanielC> Create a root password.
[03:45] <DanielC> Then on the client press ctrl+alt+f1, login to a terminal and take a look at /proc
[03:47] <DanielC> I don't know what to look for in /proc though...
[03:51] <AstroKing> I have a question about the money in Tux4Kids Maths.  It's in Euros.  Our school is in the USA, so we would need it in dollars for the students.  Is there a way to change the program to US currency?
[03:53] <AstroKing> Hello?  Anyone here?
[03:57] <DanielC> hello
[03:57] <DanielC> I don't know.
[03:58] <AstroKing> This is the one thing that I keep running into when I propose switching our school to edubuntu.  Administration won't go for it because of the Euro issue.
[03:58] <DanielC> What's the command-line program? tuxmath?
[03:59] <DanielC> Yup...
[03:59] <AstroKing> I can't remember right now - I'm on a Windows machine at the moment and don't have access to my edubuntu system.
[04:00] <DanielC> I don't see the Euro symbols. Where are they?
[04:01] <AstroKing> In TuxMaths it has a lesson on coins and they are Euro coins - not US currency.  Let me start up my live cd on this other computer and see if I can find it real quick.
[04:01] <DanielC> Are you sure this is tuxmath we're talking about?
[04:01] <DanielC> Might that be Gcompris?
[04:02] <AstroKing> My apologies - I think that was the program.  Sorry, I got confused.
[04:02] <DanielC> The images are in /usr/share/gcompris/boards/money/
[04:03] <AstroKing> Ok, let me look
[04:06] <DanielC> I'm not aware of any package that has pictures of US money, but if you can find those pictures (e.g. use a digital camera) you could replace the Euros by the dollars.
[04:07] <AstroKing> Yeah, well now that I know the location (I'm a linux newbie), I can probably Google for images of US coins.  Thanks - that helps a lot.
[04:08] <DanielC> If you need help with that just come back here and I'll help.
[04:15] <topoor> DanielC: thanks u very much now i can take a look to the log of the clients
[05:21] <topoor> quit
[05:51] <highvoltage> Laser_away: ping
[05:51] <highvoltage> ogra_: pinr
[05:51] <highvoltage> ogra: ping
[05:51] <ogra> highvoltage, ponr
[05:51] <ogra> highvoltage, pong
[05:51] <DanielC> heh
[05:51] <highvoltage> ogra: lol! ogra, my cell phone number changed, it's +2778 108 2588
[05:51] <ogra> oki, will note it
[05:51] <ogra> thnks
[05:51] <highvoltage> just in case you get a call from a strange number tomorrow :)
[05:52] <ogra> heh
[05:52] <highvoltage> when are you leaving? my flight is quite late, 11:45PM tonight
[05:53] <ogra> i just looked into the routeplanner, apprently i was wrong and its only 450km from here 
[05:53] <DanielC> highvoltage: Are you located in the UK?
[05:53] <ogra> so only a 3-4h drive
[05:53] <ogra> so i'll drive tomorrow morning
[05:54] <DanielC> ogra: Are you in Saarbrucken?
[05:54] <ogra> nope
[05:54] <ogra> i'm in the middle of nowhere near the belgian border
[05:54] <ogra> but i'm about to move to the middle of the country (right after paris)
[05:54] <DanielC> My boss says he met an Oliver from Ubuntu in Saarbrucken last year, with a guy called Manfred. It was about an EU project for a sever or something like that.
[05:55] <ogra> yeah
[05:55] <ogra> that was me
[05:55] <DanielC> ok :)  My employer is Ian Lynch, if you remeber the name.
[05:55] <ogra> he's the openoffice advocate, right ? 
[05:55] <DanielC> yes
[05:55] <ogra> yeah, i remember him
[05:55] <DanielC> ok :)
[05:56] <ogra> that meeting was a bit pointless :)
[05:56] <DanielC> So it seems...
[05:56] <DanielC> Oh well, such is life.
[05:56] <highvoltage> DanielC: i'm in south africa
[05:56] <ogra> yeah
[05:56] <ogra> well, it wasnt pointless since i met ian :) 
[05:56] <DanielC> :)
[05:57] <ogra> send him greetings
[05:57] <DanielC> will do.
[05:57] <ogra> :)
[05:58] <DanielC> Ian's attitude is that you never know which one of these meetings will turn into something, so you just give it a go and eventually something will turn out.
[05:58] <ogra> yeah, but the problem was that they had no idea what they wanted
[05:59] <ogra> it could have been a good meeting if that would have been clear from the beginning
[05:59] <ogra> too many different interests ...
[05:59] <flint> Good morining
[06:00] <highvoltage> morning mr flint!
[06:00] <DanielC> ogra: Yeah, that's what Ian says too.
[06:00] <DanielC> flint: morning
[06:00] <flint> Anyone got any idea how to get around the Edubuntu ltsp login bug?
[06:00] <ogra> hey flint !
[06:00] <DanielC> flint: If it's morning for you I take it you are in the US/Canada west coast?
[06:00] <ogra> flint, there is no login bug, only users that didnt read the docs :P 
[06:00] <ogra> flint, run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
[06:01] <flint> Ogra highvoltage I beat the dhcp bug.  The trick is to configure the card from the gui!!!
[06:01] <ogra> flint, everytime you change ip settings for the ltsp part in edubuntu ;)
[06:01] <flint> thanks Ollie!!!!!
[06:01] <ogra> ;)
[06:01] <flint> I swear a mighty oath, this looking over Jonathan's stuff is good for me!
[06:02] <flint> How is Paris, you damn swains?
[06:02] <ogra> yeah, its good for everyone :)
[06:02] <ogra> hmm
[06:02] <ogra> highvoltage, do you have set something up that kicks people for the term swains ?
[06:02] <ogra> *g*
[06:03] <ogra> lol
[06:03] <ogra> flint, *giggle*
[06:03] <ogra> what did you do ?
[06:04] <flint> ogra with this last sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys working (and it did!!!) I will forge on with this conference in Main USA, eat lobster and think of good expresso and cigars...
[06:04] <highvoltage> ogra: *g*
[06:04] <ogra> flint, cool
[06:04] <ogra> flint, i'm not in paris yet btw
[06:04] <ogra> flint, mdz just arrived there though
[06:04] <highvoltage> flint: we're not in paris yet, so we'll find out tomorrow
[06:05] <flint> anyway you two keep that teamspeak thing in front of folks I may want to try to link our conferences if you want...
[06:05] <ogra> yeah
[06:05] <highvoltage> i'm just looking on th radisson sas site to try to figure out if they have a map available
[06:05] <flint> ah give my best to the wild zimmerman...
[06:05] <ogra> flint, he's in #ubuntu-devel :)
[06:05] <DanielC> Do you guys get some time to travel around Paris? Or is it all work?
[06:05] <highvoltage> zimmerman? wild?
[06:05] <ogra> highvoltage, yes, he *can* be wild :)
[06:06] <highvoltage> heh. ok :)
[06:06] <flint> highvoltage: Jonathan, the problem is it will be in French!  
[06:06] <highvoltage> i thought it's just the elmo you find in the wild.
[06:06] <flint> ogra trust me I can get him wild, I just use FITS!
[06:06] <ogra> DanielC, canonical pays flights and the hotel, since you can pick the time for the flights yourself, you can just stay a week longer and move to a cheaper hotel ...
[06:07] <flint> ask the man about Flint Induced Tourettes Syndrome... everyone shold have it...
[06:07] <highvoltage> flint: i get an idea there will be little time for anything but work, but we'll have tomorrow evening and saturday morning, although i get a feeling that might be busy too. i haven't seen the schedule yet.
[06:07] <DanielC> ogra: Oh, that's nice of them.
[06:07] <ogra> flint, so try how FITS works out via teamspeak ;)
[06:07] <flint> ogra ah remote FITS 
[06:07] <ogra> DanielC, well, you'd have to pay the second hotel youerself indeed
[06:07] <highvoltage> are they compatible?
[06:08] <DanielC> ogra: Well, if you are coming from South Africa that's still a very nice deal.
[06:08] <ogra> he should really stop playing with his network settings while chatting :)
[06:08] <ogra> DanielC, true
[06:08] <flint> gotta go my braves - be vERY smart!
[06:08] <ogra> ciao flint 
[06:08] <flint> and Thanks!!!
[06:08] <flint> sksk
[06:08] <ogra> DanielC, i used that opportunity in sydney :)
[06:08] <DanielC> cool
[06:09] <DanielC> I've never been to Australia.
[06:09] <ogra> we flew a week earlier
[06:09] <DanielC> I want to go some day.
[06:10] <ogra> enjoy
[08:30] <pygi> hey HedgeMage 
[08:31] <HedgeMage> hiya pygi 
[08:31] <pygi> what you wanted to talk about related to  cookbook?
[08:32] <pygi> I can steal some time to talk
[08:32] <HedgeMage> I wanted to put together some sort of chapter spec
[08:32] <pygi> hm, I saw you already wrote something?
[08:33] <HedgeMage> I put the overall outline together...
[08:33] <HedgeMage> I'm talking about something stating how an individual chapter should be formatted, what individual items need to be there, etc.
[08:33] <pygi> right, so chapters layout
[08:36] <pygi> hm, that will take some time
[08:36] <pygi> I shall try to get some time to assemble something
[08:36] <HedgeMage> I figure once we hack out the ideas, I could put together some sort of docbook template for folks to use.
[08:37] <DanielC> You know what would be cool? If we could setup per-client auto-login through lts.conf
[08:38] <DanielC> So, when I boot the first client it auto logs in as "user01" and the second client auto logs in as "user02" etc.
[08:39] <DanielC> So I can tell the teacher that all they do is turn the client on and it "just works".
[08:39] <DanielC> Is this possible at all?
[08:42] <ogra> DanielC, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-login-and-session-handling
[08:43] <ogra> we'll discuss it in paris
[08:43] <DanielC> *click*
[08:43] <DanielC> Good man :)
[08:45] <DanielC> ogra: The specification is empty :)
[08:49] <ogra> DanielC, sure, we're meeting in paris to write it
[08:50] <DanielC> ah
[08:50] <DanielC> I look forward to reading the spec later.
[08:51] <DanielC> But do you at least have a couple of use cases?
[08:56] <HedgeMage>  hi Seveas 
[09:06] <Seveas> hi
[09:08] <cbx33> hey Seveas 
[09:09] <cbx33> whois mvo
[09:09] <cbx33> whoops
[10:09] <kbrooks> cbx33: AHA
[10:09] <kbrooks> cbx33: fou nd ya
[10:30] <cbx33> hi kbrooks 
[10:30] <kbrooks> whats up?
[10:32] <cbx33> i think it's solved it now :p
[10:32] <cbx33> so, how could I improve my code?
[10:34] <kbrooks> what's solved now
[10:35] <cbx33> hehe
[10:35] <cbx33> another python app problem
[10:35] <kbrooks> cbx33: oh k
[10:35] <kbrooks> can we talk in #gisomount?
[10:35] <cbx33> sure