[01:00] <lapo> hi
[01:14] <Drom> hi
[01:15] <Drom> is there someone from ubuntu art team who can do changes on art.ubuntu.com?
[01:16] <Drom> ok, I'll leave a message :)
[01:17] <Drom> I'm from Gnome-art team, I want ask you for a little change on ubuntu-art latest news
[01:18] <Drom> please, leave note that art.gnome.org do not accept any distro specific artworks, I hade to refuse several themes today
[01:18] <Drom> art.gnome.org tryes to be distro independent...
[01:18] <Drom> thanks
[02:10] <Madpilot> Drom, what makes a theme distro-dependant? There's lots of stuff w/ the Ubuntu logo/colours on art.gnome.org already, isn't there?
[03:03] <Drom> Madpilot: mostly logos
[03:04] <Drom> Madpilot: i think there is no distro specific items on a.g.o
[03:04] <Drom> *are
[03:04] <Madpilot> ah - I use gnome-look.org more myself, but I thought ago did have distro "specific" wallpapers & such too
[03:05] <Drom> Madpilot: no distro specific items as far a I know
[03:06] <Drom> maybe some old stuff
[03:06] <Madpilot> OK
[03:06] <Madpilot> we're trying to get art.u.c moving again - it's been neglected a bit - so this might be the prod we need :)
[03:07] <Drom> you should update to latest system :), thos and benzea did several good features
[03:24] <coz_> hello all
[03:25] <coz_> any edgy artwork being done yet?
[03:26] <klepas_Zzz> w've just had a meeting
[03:26] <coz_> klepas_Zzz, about the art work?
[03:26] <klepas_Zzz> the minutes will be available in summary within the next 2 hrs
[03:26] <klepas_Zzz> yes
[03:27] <coz_> klepas, i would like to contribute to the art work ..is there any particular direction the team has decided on
[03:27] <klepas> we're organising ourselves and then we intend to get some work done
[03:27] <klepas> we're going to re-organise the wiki (ie. please don't make large additions/changes)
[03:28] <klepas> and within the next two weeks an artist in chief will be decided per resume basis
[03:28] <klepas> art leaders, one tier below that will probably be chosen from the chief people working on the individual community themes
[03:29] <coz_> klepas,  so will it be possible to show artwork created to the team before I post on the forums
[03:29] <klepas> we intend to cut down the traffic on the ML a lot
[03:29] <klepas> there is too much on it at the moment
[03:30] <klepas> coz_: right now adding new work is distracting and leads off topic
[03:30] <klepas> at least over the ML and the wiki
[03:30] <klepas> if you have some work show it off here for the moment
[03:31] <klepas> but once we've gotten organised and we identify the specific themes and such we need to do, and prioritise, yea definitely
[03:31] <coz_> klepas, ok i can come back within the next week or two to check when it would be appropirate to show the work. I don't want to post it on ubuntuforums until you people have had a chnce to view it
[03:32] <coz_> klepas,  thanks
[03:32] <klepas> no worries
[06:48] <klepas> troy_s: ping
[07:09] <burnfire> quit
[01:11] <lapo> hi
[02:38] <jeldert> hi guys, anyone around?
[02:38] <msikma> Hi
[02:39] <jeldert> I have a Windows theme which I'd like to use on Ubuntu, is that possible?
[02:39] <jeldert> I think it's not :(
[02:44] <Drom|zZz> it is not possible
[02:46] <jeldert> and is there an easy way to create something myself? I found http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes but I prefer something graphical
[02:47] <jeldert> windowborder and some controls are enough for me
[03:33] <viper550> Hello
[03:33] <klepas> moin
[03:33] <viper550> Hey, Jimmac is in here, he designed the cursors that Linux distros commonly use now!
[03:33] <klepas> :)
[03:35] <msikma> He designed a whole lot more than just that.
[03:35] <msikma> jeldert: also, that's impossible, sorry. Someone would have to port that theme.
[03:35] <viper550> I know that, but his cursors are also good too!
[03:36] <viper550> Even better, I even thought his new Gilouche theme for SUSE 10.1 was so simliar to Compiz's defaults, that I ported it to Metacity with Gilouche as the base!
[03:38] <msikma> Yeah, his cursors are good. I don't see why there's a request to create new ones. How would we make new cursors differently from the ones that we already have? It's not something you can "orangify" (and making everything orange for the sake of it being orange isn't really a good plan either!)
[03:39] <viper550> Can we do DCC sending through here?
[03:40] <viper550> I've made new cursors differently, and they look pretty good. Would anyone like the raw SVG and PNG files?
[03:40] <msikma> Yeah, this isn't a no-DCC network :)
[03:40] <msikma> I don't mind it if you send them to me, although I don't think that one SVG you sent to the mailing list is a very appropriate general-purpose icon.
[03:41] <viper550> I made some adjustments over here...
[03:41] <msikma> If you'd like me to crit them, I'd like to see the PNG files.
[03:41] <msikma> You can also mail them to me. Probably easier.
[03:42] <msikma> DCC seems to not be very trustworthy :)
[03:42] <viper550> why?
[03:42] <viper550> We're both on Linux
[03:43] <msikma> DCC sending sometimes fails when on faulty router settings. I'm behind two routers of which one is a little too restrictive.
[03:43] <msikma> It doesn't have anything to do with whether you're on Linux or not.
[03:43] <msikma> I'm also currently not on Linux, I'm on Windows so I can use Photoshop.
[03:44] <viper550> oh...
[03:44] <msikma> But if you send them to the mailing list, I'll crit them if you like.
[03:44] <viper550> I'll send the updated version to the mailing list
[03:46] <viper550> Sent...
[03:48] <msikma> I'll check it in a second.
[03:49] <viper550> For the busy cursor, it will be inspired by jimmac's Tango spinner design
[03:58] <coz_> morning all
[03:59] <msikma> Okay, I sent a mail, viper550
[03:59] <msikma> Hi coz_
[03:59] <coz_> msikma, hello guy
[03:59] <viper550> Anyone here good with XFCE theming?
[04:00] <coz_> viper550, not me, sorry guy
[04:00] <msikma> I wish. I still need to learn how exactly to build a theme, because that's one thing I want to start being involved with...
[04:00] <msikma> Well, I'm going back to photochopping.
[04:01] <viper550> Is there a xubuntu-artwork here?
[04:02] <coz_> viper550, what type of things are you looking for
[04:02] <viper550> Never mind, just trying to get XFCE 4.4 working on my FC5 box
[04:02] <klepas> coz_: you saw the message on AUC? :)
[04:02] <coz_> klepas, sorry no !!!!
[04:03] <klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com
[04:03] <klepas> concering what you consulted me on before :)
[04:03] <klepas> more formal
[04:03] <viper550> I meant to say, if Xubuntu is XFCE based, I bet there are XFCE themers there!
[04:05] <coz_> klepas, thanks I appreciate it
[04:05] <klepas> no worries
[04:05] <klepas> there will be a slight change to that announcement
[04:06] <klepas> as art.gnome.org does not accept distribution specific artwork (although it may have in the past)
[04:06] <viper550> www.gnome-look.org (I even uploaded a package of Dapper artwork there!)
[04:06] <klepas> well no longer
[04:07] <lapo> hi viper550, you did the usplash theme, right?
[04:08] <klepas> msikma, i believe, lapo :)
[04:08] <viper550> No, I did however compete for the title though...only got upstaged by an orange version of 5.10's artwork
[04:08] <lapo> ah ok
[04:10] <viper550> I still think mine is better, everyone on the mailing list liked it...
[04:13] <viper550> Lapo, I'll be happy to send you over DCC my Usplash artwork idea that got rejected by many votes
[04:13] <lapo> klepas: just a clarification about the meeting, it's not clear for me how the human themes get in the artwork theme picture
[04:14] <coz_> viper550, where did you post it so that it had a vote in the first place
[04:14] <lapo> viper550: I think I can't accept dcc, sorry, if you upload theme somewhere would be better
[04:14] <lapo> of by mail calamandrei at gmail dot com
[04:14] <lapo> s/of/or/
[04:15] <lapo> klepas: ugh, I mean artwork *team* not theme, sorry :-)
[04:16] <klepas> could you elaborate?
[04:16] <msikma> Yeah, I did that usplash, by the way.
[04:16] <lapo> klepas: the artwork team will not control the human stuff right?
[04:17] <msikma> Which reminds me, I need to make a mock-up of what I believe should be the next one.
[04:18] <msikma> Also, viper550, I didn't really like yours for two reasons. One was that it wasn't exactly in the center of the image, and the other is that the gradient was off-center as well. I just think it was a nice idea, but a little shoddy. Some polish would have given it a better chance during the vote.
[04:18] <lapo> nice work on the usplash
[04:18] <msikma> Afterall, yours didn't have as many colors as mine (with the glow and all) so you could have used that to make the gradient look extra good.
[04:19] <bersace> Hello everybody
[04:19] <viper550> But, I could only use 11 colors or something like that because I needed extra pallete spots for the colors of everything else on screen to show up!
[04:19] <coz_> are any of the splashes/desktop picks that did not make it , avaiable for viewing
[04:19] <bersace> i'm very happy to see a wiki squad born
[04:19] <bersace> and to take part with it
[04:19] <lapo> btw guys all the buntus need to have something in common, I'm not saying they need to look the same, but for example usplash need to be similar
[04:19] <bersace> :)
[04:20] <lapo> atm kubuntu is kinda different
[04:21] <msikma> coz: yeah, there's an old wiki page for it.
[04:21] <msikma> I made a Kubuntu splash in the same style, too, but it was reverted because it didn't adhere to their style guide, which is too bad. I should have done more research, since it was already too late for any further changes.
[04:23] <msikma> The usplash could have had 16 colors. Six of those colors are reserved (background, text color, "ok" color, "fail" color, progress bar background color, progress bar foreground color). But the reserved colors could also be used in the actual image.
[04:24] <msikma> Seems to be difficult to find that old usplash page...
[04:24] <lapo> I think that would be better to ditch the text from the next uspalsh
[04:25] <lapo> or at least use a better font, like the one used in the livecd "bootmanager"
[04:25] <msikma> Yeah, me too.
[04:26] <msikma> I did make a new font for it. It needs some minor fixes and doesn't have any accents yet.
[04:27] <lapo> I don't think you'll need accents boot messages are plain english
[04:27] <lapo> another reason to ditch the text there, no localization
[04:28] <msikma> I'd rather just remove the text, too, and then use a graphically more interesting progress bar.
[04:28] <msikma> I once made mock-ups for that with the old usplash design.
[04:29] <lapo> cool
[04:29] <msikma> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/_usplash_misc_6.png
[04:29] <msikma> Except without the "starting up" text.
[04:29] <lapo> uhm..
[04:30] <lapo> I'm not a big fan of the human progrss bar design, but cool
[04:32] <klepas> lapo: sorry
[04:32] <klepas> We will be in control of Human, partially
[04:32] <klepas> Human will be under the direct supervision of Mark and the artist in chief
[04:32] <lapo> klepas: what does partially mean?
[04:32] <klepas> hopefully, and Mark has noted this, we will get a chance to put artwork into Edgy
[04:33] <klepas> we might not be able to decide to change the GDM theme for example
[04:33] <klepas> might not be up to us
[04:33] <lapo> that kinda sucks
[04:34] <klepas> i think this round is our chance to show that the artwork team can get organised, can collaborate and can make some beautiful artwork
[04:34] <msikma> I'm certain we will be able to get a lot done if only we suggest proper art.
[04:34] <lapo> will the artist in chief have the "power" to control anything?
[04:34] <msikma> Maybe we need to fork the design and start building it to end up exactly the way we want it to be and then hope the final version of the default theme incorporates many of such elements.
[04:34] <klepas> if we prove that this round for the artwork we get to do in Human and through the various other community themes (Outdoors, Tangerine, Tango) we will be able to probably do more work Edgy+
[04:35] <klepas> lapo: artist in chief will have the power to do a fair bit i would assume
[04:35] <msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/edgysuggestion_0_8.png <-- this is what that progress bar would look in Dapper's context.
[04:35] <msikma> *look like
[04:35] <lapo> uhm
[04:35] <klepas> Mark has agreed to describe the role and so forth in a pending email to the ML
[04:35] <lapo> yep
[04:37] <msikma> I still don't really know what the conclusion is of that mail I sent about special effects in Ubuntu.
[04:38] <msikma> One thing which I think is imperative is properly anti-aliased edges of rounded window decorations.
[04:38] <msikma> That's just a very tiny thing so I'm certain we can get that done exclusively through software rendering.
[04:38] <lapo> msikma: not possible with the current stuff
[04:38] <msikma> :(
[04:38] <klepas> yea, sadly not
[04:39] <klepas> which is why the 90 degree corners are nicer :)
[04:39] <msikma> By the time Vista is released, drop shadows will be used in both major proprietary operating systems, and Linux would fall behind in what's essentially a major feature.
[04:39] <klepas> personally, that is of course
[04:39] <msikma> lapo: oh, you're talking about the anti-aliased corners not being possible?
[04:39] <klepas> msikma: there is a reason why metacity does not allow this
[04:39] <msikma> Or just the drop shadows?
[04:39] <klepas> and drop shadows
[04:39] <klepas> because KISS
[04:39] <lapo> msikma: corners
[04:39] <msikma> Because no anti-aliased window edges is... well, kind of 1984.
[04:39] <klepas> metacity runs on low end machines
[04:40] <klepas> msikma: that is what XGL is for :)
[04:40] <lapo> msikma: a lot of fancy stuff is possible with compiz and next matacity
[04:40] <msikma> Cursors also have alpha transparency, and thus anti-aliasing, so I see absolutely zero reason why it's not possible to do software rendering for window corners
[04:40] <klepas> and XGL kicks Vista's and Mac OS X's graphics atm
[04:40] <msikma> It likely takes almost zero processing power.
[04:40] <klepas> not sure of the technicalities of Metacity... you'd have to chat to the devels
[04:40] <lapo> msikma: probabily, but the current metacity cannot do it
[04:40] <klepas> but i know it's not possible
[04:41] <msikma> Well, that's very lame. And old-fashioned.
[04:41] <klepas> that is what XGL is for
[04:41] <klepas> msikma: and they could always use kwin :)
[04:41] <klepas> or KDE for that matter
[04:41] <msikma> I don't see why we need a completely different program for something so small. I think it should have been done long ago, actually.
[04:41] <klepas> or... we could use non-rounded corners ;)
[04:41] <lapo> the next metacity will be more powerfull, and will have more theming possibilities
[04:41] <msikma> Why limit ourselves because of such a stupidly tiny thing?
[04:41] <klepas> msikma: file a bug against Metacity
[04:41] <msikma> I will. I'll go figure out where to do that right now. Or should I file it in Ubuntu?
[04:41] <lapo> msikma: because we are not developers :-)
[04:41] <klepas> bugs.gnome.org, iirc
[04:42] <klepas> metacity
[04:42] <klepas> that is much higher upstream
[04:42] <klepas> msikma: sorry, bugzilla.gnome.org
[04:42] <msikma> It redirects there.
[04:42] <klepas> :)
[04:42] <msikma> Well, thanks. I'll submit it.
[04:43] <klepas> keep us posted :)
[04:43] <klepas> although slightly OT, what do you folks think of this: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344542
[04:43] <msikma> I still think it's a little silly that such a thing just isn't possible to hack in.
[04:43] <lapo> I really hope for mark to see the light and adopt tango style for human
[04:43] <msikma> That's another thing we should reason for.
[04:43] <lapo> gimp is getting tangoified
[04:43] <klepas> lapo: i have my dreams... and also my doubts...
[04:44] <lapo> gnome icon theme as well
[04:44] <klepas> Mark has openly stated he does not like Tango all that much
[04:44] <msikma> Tangerine is what Edgy should use. Tangerine looks better than Human and is completely compatible with all icons that are to be made in the future, since everything is likely to go Tango in the future.
[04:44] <lapo> klepas: I think mark don't know exactly what tango is
[04:44] <lapo> msikma: thanks :-)
[04:44] <klepas> mayhaps
[04:44] <klepas> yea, Tangerine is awesome
[04:45] <klepas> but i doubt Mark, or the CC for that matter would back down from their decisions at this point
[04:45] <klepas> maybe much further down the track
[04:45] <klepas> they've invested a lot in Human
[04:45] <msikma> I see no reason to continue using an inferior icon set.
[04:45] <klepas> and now it's in a LTS release...
[04:45] <msikma> Although Tangerine is not without its bad things, too.
[04:45] <feihung> Is there a way change openoffice icon/toolbar :0)
[04:45] <lapo> klepas: jimmac is doing a great work on openoffice, so it will be have tango style icons soon (upstream even)
[04:45] <klepas> that sounds great
[04:45] <msikma> For one thing, I despise the fact that _everything_ needs to be orange.
[04:45] <lapo> klepas: gnome icon theme will be tango style
[04:46] <msikma> Not _everything_ needs to be orange, guys! By toning it down a little, the icons that ARE orange will have much more of an impact.
[04:46] <lapo> scribus is there already
[04:46] <lapo> msikma: right
[04:46] <klepas> well i shall be off
[04:46] <lapo> msikma: I think I remove some of the orangified icons from tangerine
[04:46] <klepas> need the sleep
[04:46] <klepas> full day of courses tomorrow, well today actually... :)
[04:46] <lapo> good "night" klepas
[04:46] <msikma> I think that the "refresh" button is pretty poor.
[04:46] <lapo> msikma: my fault
[04:46] <klepas> cheers :)
[04:47] <klepas> msikma: ditto
[04:47] <msikma> You know, the thing that bothers me about Human the most is the icon used for "cancel".
[04:47] <klepas> lol :)
[04:47] <msikma> It's a gigantic... knob of some sort.
[04:47] <msikma> With a huge X in it.
[04:47] <klepas_Zzz> it screams "ERROR!"
[04:47] <klepas_Zzz> to me
[04:47] <klepas_Zzz> ah well
[04:47] <klepas_Zzz> night
[04:47] <msikma> Night
[04:47] <lapo> msikma: there are problems with how gtk handles those icons btw
[04:47] <msikma> Yeah, that too. I remember reading about it.
[04:48] <lapo> yep, the metaphor there is pretty poor btw
[04:48] <lapo> what andreasn did for tangerine is better actually
[04:48] <lapo> even if not perfect yet
[04:49] <msikma> I prefer that simple black x.
[04:49] <lapo> cancel is not close
[04:49] <msikma> There are some parts of a system where you just shouldn't try too hard, I believe.
[04:49] <lapo> cancel is more like undo
[04:49] <msikma> Cancel is close in 99% of the windows. Really, when you press cancel, you usually close a window and/or stop an action from happening.
[04:50] <msikma> It's not undo because you're cancelling an action before it's done.
[04:52] <msikma> Man, this Gnome Bugzilla e-mail is taking forever to send.
[05:43] <msikma> There we go: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345249