[01:31] <Burgundavia> hey all
[01:59] <HedgeMage> hi Burgundavia 
[01:59] <HedgeMage> what's up?
[02:00] <Burgundavia> not mucg
[02:00] <Burgundavia> recovering from my trip
[02:03] <HedgeMage> :)
[02:03] <Burgundavia> leave again Wednesday, so don't have much time for Ubuntu
[02:04] <HedgeMage> aww
[02:04] <HedgeMage> you're allowed to have a real life, you know ;)
[02:04] <Burgundavia> yep, this one pays the bills too
[02:05] <HedgeMage> heh I could use one of those
[02:45] <HedgeMage> hi arkan0x 
[02:45] <arkan0x> hi HedgeMage
[05:55] <HedgeMage> is it just me or has it been a while since we last did an edubuntu newsletter?
[05:57] <crimsun> been a while iirc
[06:00] <HedgeMage> I think when highvoltage is next around, I'll prod him to set up an area on the web site so they're easier to keep track of.
[08:15] <HedgeMage> hiya highvoltage 
[08:15] <highvoltage> hiya HedgeMage 
[08:15] <HedgeMage> what's up?
[08:15] <highvoltage> how are things?
[08:16] <highvoltage> well, first day of ubuntu summit about to start in ~45 minutes
[08:16] <HedgeMage> not bad... just the usual.  I actually had something I wanted to ask you if you have a moment.
[08:16] <highvoltage> just checking mail and stuff
[08:16] <highvoltage> sure
[08:17] <HedgeMage> Do we currently have a spot on edubuntu.org for the newsletters, or could you would you make one?
[08:17] <Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
[08:19] <HedgeMage> aha, jsgotangco the other person I wanted to bug on that subject if possible
[08:19] <jsgotangco> bonjour madamoiselle HedgeMage
[08:20] <HedgeMage> Hiya hon, enjoying your trip so far?
[08:20] <jsgotangco> pretty good we went to the lourve yesterday and did the tourist thing
[08:21] <HedgeMage> I am sooo jealous!
[08:23] <HedgeMage> jsgotangco: I just suggested to highvoltage that it might be nice to make a spot on the web site for the newsletters so they are a bit more promenant.  I've had a few people ask about it, and I had to dig it up from list archives.
[08:24] <HedgeMage> jsgotangco: I was also wondering if I could write a small spot on Cookbook progress for future ones.
[08:24] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: that's a good idea
[08:24] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: i'll get that in
[08:25] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: thanks :)
[08:25] <HedgeMage> that'll save me pasting it into emails for people ;)
[08:26] <highvoltage> yeah.
[08:26] <jsgotangco> hold on
[08:26] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: also, is it meant to be a monthly thing or how often? (so I know when I should be writing these)
[08:26] <HedgeMage> sorry, meant jsgotangco ^^^
[08:27] <jsgotangco> hold on talking to my wife explaining why i spent 10 on water alone hahaha
[08:27] <HedgeMage> rofl
[08:27] <HedgeMage> hi jsgotangco's wife!
[08:28] <highvoltage> heh
[08:28] <jsgotangco> dude 4 for a bottle of spring water
[08:28] <jsgotangco> its much cheaper to grab a pepsi
[08:28] <HedgeMage> wow
[08:28] <HedgeMage> that's like $7 US or thereabouts, isn't it?
[08:29] <HedgeMage> hi LaserJock_ 
[08:29] <LaserJock_> hi
[08:31] <LaserJock_> HedgeMage:  I don't have any pictures yet, highvoltage has got some goods ones though
[08:31] <HedgeMage> cool :)
[08:31] <HedgeMage> I can't wait
[08:31] <HedgeMage> are you having fun?
[08:32] <LaserJock_> yeah
[08:33] <LaserJock_> little sleep
[08:33] <LaserJock_> but fun
[08:34] <HedgeMage> :)
[08:34] <HedgeMage> I wish I were there with you guys :)
[08:35] <LaserJock_> yeah
[08:35] <LaserJock_> we had some good edubuntu discussions already
[08:35] <HedgeMage> oooh! like?
[08:36] <HedgeMage> I'm sorry, you probably don't want to sit here and rehash it all :)
[08:36] <HedgeMage> don't worry about it
[08:37] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: i don't have my camera cable with me, i'll upload tonight :)
[08:37] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: np... I know you all are busy with things more important than letting my live vicariously your adventures ;)
[08:37] <LaserJock_> HedgeMage: one laptop per child
[08:38] <LaserJock_> HedgeMage: what we want to see in the futur in Edubuntu
[08:38] <HedgeMage> BTW, while I have all of you busy people in here... anyone have a good calendar app for Linux?
[08:39] <LaserJock_> hmm
[08:40] <LaserJock_> evo? I think you can get sunbird too
[08:40] <HedgeMage> I'll try 'em both.
[08:40] <Burgundavia> HedgeMage: get Dates. It runs on top of eds
[08:40] <HedgeMage> eds?
[08:41] <Burgundavia> evolution-data-server
[08:41] <HedgeMage> ahh
[08:41] <Burgundavia> the backend part of evo
[08:41] <Burgundavia> http://projects.o-hand.com/dates
[08:41] <HedgeMage> I don't use evolution for mail, so I'd prefer something more stand-alone...
[08:41] <Burgundavia> it is standalone, that is the brilliant part
[08:42] <HedgeMage> ooh
[08:42] <HedgeMage> interesting
[08:42] <Burgundavia> all it uses is the same backend, but that means it also integrate into your panel just like evo
[08:42] <Burgundavia> it is the direction evo should be taking
[08:42] <HedgeMage> I used to use a paper planner, I really like that better, but, well, I have a toddler :P
[08:42] <HedgeMage> it's just one more thing I have to keep out of his reach
[08:43] <HedgeMage> so I want to *try* keeping my calendar on the laptop once it's back from surgery
[08:43] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:43] <Burgundavia> I have tried and failed
[08:43] <LaserJock_> my boss uses emacs for all that
[08:43] <Burgundavia> anyway, need to sleep
[08:43] <HedgeMage> LaserJock_: you can use emacs for everything!
[08:43] <HedgeMage> LaserJock_: especially for catching up on email, usenet, and IRC while dumb TAs see emacs and think you are coding
[08:44] <LaserJock_> hehe
[08:44] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: cal?
[08:45] <HedgeMage> hrm, was hoping to narrow it down to one or two to try...
[08:45] <LaserJock_> in Linux? never!
[08:45] <HedgeMage> rofl
[08:48] <LaserJock_> hi rodarvus ;-)
[08:48] <rodarvus> good morning :)
[08:48] <LaserJock_> rodarvus: how was breakfast?
[08:48] <HedgeMage> hi rodarvus 
[08:49] <rodarvus> good, good, I'm full :)
[08:49] <rodarvus> HedgeMage, hi there!
[08:49] <HedgeMage> :)
[08:50] <HedgeMage> whohoo! party time! everyone's showing up in here now :)
[08:56] <LaserJock_> highvoltage: what's the url for your blog?
[08:57] <HedgeMage> That reminds me, I need to blog some more
[09:22] <HedgeMage> jsgotangco: any idea when I should have a cookbook blurb for you for the newsletter?
[09:23] <jsgotangco> well if you want you can also liaise with mgalvin if im not around, he published the newsletter every weekend
[09:24] <HedgeMage> ahh cool
[09:25] <HedgeMage> every weekend? I think I've missed some... I only got the first one, which I believe you posted.
[09:25] <HedgeMage> must have lost 'em when my lappy died
[09:25] <jsgotangco> we dont publish different newsletters anymore we've just created one big newsletter covering all projects
[09:27] <HedgeMage> ahh okay
[09:27] <HedgeMage> that's why I was confused then
[09:27] <HedgeMage> I somehow thought Edubuntu was just doing them less often
[09:28] <HedgeMage> I'm glad I asked about it :)
[09:28] <jsgotangco> sorry about the confusion
[09:28] <HedgeMage> np, I'm easily confused :)
[09:47] <cbx33> pygi: you got a sec?
[09:48] <Amaranth> ok, i think i have my bayesian stuff working now
[09:48] <Amaranth> but i cheated
[09:48] <cbx33> oh hang on maybe I can do this another way
[09:48] <Amaranth> i went back to the original "load everything in memory at once and pickle it to save" code
[09:48] <cbx33> Amaranth: hehe
[09:49] <Amaranth> i'll probably spend the week reading research papers so i can figure out how all of this really works
[09:49] <cbx33> :p
[09:49] <Amaranth> i only have an elementary understanding right now
[09:49] <LaserJock_> cbx33: hi!
[09:50] <cbx33> hey LaserJock_ 
[09:50] <cbx33> you in paris?
[09:50] <LaserJock_> yes
[09:50] <cbx33> excellent
[09:51] <LaserJock_> sitting next to ogra, rodarvus, highvoltage, jsgotangco, and jdub
[09:51] <cbx33> say hi to them all for me :p
[09:52] <Amaranth> cool
[09:52] <cbx33> I'm so angry I didn't know I had to add my specs to the Paris Summit
[09:52] <Amaranth> i wish i could be there :(
[09:52] <cbx33> I missed getting them in the approval line :(
[09:53] <Amaranth> Evolution notified me that i had a meeting called "Ubuntu Developer Summit" and i got sad
[09:56] <LaserJock> cbx33: ah, not to worry, I don't think it will matter too much
[09:57] <LaserJock> heh
[10:06] <cbx33> LaserJock: howz it going, what's it like?
[10:07] <Amaranth> "Handling Redundancy In Email Token Probabilities"
[10:07] <Amaranth> Looks like a fun read.
[10:07] <cbx33> Amaranth: know much python?
[10:08] <Amaranth> yeah
[10:08] <cbx33> couod I pick ya brains?
[10:08] <cbx33> it's a quickie
[10:08] <Amaranth> btw, it's only 9am (i think) in paris
[10:08] <Amaranth> so i doubt they've done much yet
[10:08] <cbx33> hehe true true
[10:08] <Amaranth> ask away
[10:08] <cbx33> ok, I need to create a progress bar for the output of rsync
[10:09] <LaserJock> cbx33: it's pretty cool, had breakfast with Mark
[10:09] <cbx33> LaserJock: ex ellent ...WOW
[10:09] <cbx33> Amaranth: I'm trying to read the stdout
[10:09] <cbx33> with a PIPE
[10:09] <LaserJock> we had like 15-20 guys hanging out in the lobby
[10:10] <Amaranth> trying to read the stdout?
[10:10] <Amaranth> but you generate the stdout
[10:10] <cbx33> from rsync
[10:10] <Amaranth> ah
[10:10] <cbx33> I'm using a subprocess
[10:10] <Amaranth> good luck with that
[10:10] <cbx33> ok
[10:11] <cbx33> thought you might say something like that
[10:11] <Amaranth> i've never done it
[10:11] <cbx33> it's not easy
[10:11] <cbx33> I'm trying to use read()
[10:11] <cbx33> and specifying some byte size
[10:11] <Amaranth> This paper is so boring I think I'd rather go do some mathematical proofs.
[10:11] <cbx33> heheh
[10:11] <Amaranth> And I hate doing proofs.
[10:11] <cbx33> ah derivations were soooo boring but sometimes so satisfying
[10:12] <cbx33> but truth is I've probably forgotten a lot of it by now
[10:12] <cbx33> non-linear differential equations in 3 dimensional space....ahhh....what a giggle
[10:12] <Amaranth> 'It is useful for us to assume a "null hypothesis" that the f(w)'s are drawn from a population of random variables that is uniformly distributed and statistically independent. This assumption is false, of course.'
[10:13] <cbx33> hehe
[10:13] <cbx33> ahhh hypotheses
[10:13] <cbx33> so anything you would give me a tip on Amaranth 
[10:13] <cbx33> with the whole python and reading stdout
[10:14] <Amaranth> os.popen('rsync foo')
[10:14] <Amaranth> err
[10:15] <Amaranth> fd = os.popen('rsync foo')
[10:15] <Amaranth> while data = fd.read(1024):
[10:15] <Amaranth>     print 'i should do something'
[10:15] <Amaranth> you can't really do that while line
[10:15] <Amaranth> but it's a quick explanation of what to do
[10:17] <crimsun> cbx33: http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq23.020.htp
[10:19] <crimsun> cbx33: james is online as jamesh, but he may be busy
[10:21] <pc22> hi DanielC
[10:40] <LaserJock> highvoltage: how's your power?
[10:52] <cbx33> hanxs crimsun 
[11:20] <DanielC> What's the usual Ubuntu runlevel? I ran the "runlevel" command and it says 2. Shouldn't that be 5?
[11:20] <DanielC> ping?
[11:20] <DanielC> Ok, a few people just entered the room. Maybe someone can tell me the usual Ubuntu runlevel.
[11:21] <DanielC> The "runlevel" command says "2" but I was expecting "5".
[11:21] <DanielC> Isn't 5 the runlevel for networking+X11 ?
[11:39] <LaserJock> jsgotangco, highvoltage, rodarvus : power?
[11:39] <jsgotangco> im connected at jdub's uber extension
[11:39] <LaserJock> heh, me too
[11:40] <rodarvus> I need to connect my laptop to a powersource
[11:40] <EmxBA> hi!
[11:41] <rodarvus> you you have any free spot on the connector, I'd be very thankful :)
[11:41] <EmxBA> anyone heard of my artwork?
[11:41] <EmxBA> now it is available at ubuntu.juliux.de/stuff/emx/edubuntu
[11:42] <rodarvus> thanks guys :)
[11:47] <highvoltage> LaserJock: i'm fine for now thanks
[11:48] <EmxBA> hi highvoltage
[11:48] <EmxBA> haven't seen you for days :)
[11:50] <cbx33> or are you tryingto give us the Paris experience :p
[11:50] <EmxBA> anyone coming to possible debconf7 in sarajevo, bosnia and herzegovina?
[11:50] <cbx33> hey ogra, ograsync is getting there :) I have the rsync tie in working fine :p
[11:51] <DanielC> Does anyone know the default runlevel of Ubuntu? When I run "runlevel" it says 2. Shouldn't that be 5? (networking+XWindows).
[12:15] <crimsun> DanielC: like most, if not all, Debian-based distros, it's 2.
[12:15] <DanielC> crimsun: That's interesting.
[12:15] <crimsun> DanielC: Debian doesn't play runlevel games. Runlevels 2-5 are identical.
[12:16] <DanielC> I see.
[12:16] <DanielC> Thanks for the info.
[12:16] <crimsun> np
[12:46] <cbx33> why is it the line DanielC: Debian doesn't play runlevel games. keeps putting the word Quake into my head
[12:46] <cbx33> it's too early
[12:46] <DanielC> he he
[12:46] <DanielC> You a quake fan?
[12:47] <cbx33> yeh...
[12:47] <cbx33> well was
[12:47] <DanielC> ok :)
[12:48] <DanielC> I sucked at it.
[12:49] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:42] <kbrooks> cbx33: ping
[01:42] <kbrooks> cbx33: #gisomount 
[01:42] <kbrooks> cbx33: thanks
[01:52] <cbx33> kbrooks: I can;t get in there today
[01:52] <cbx33> I'm on cgiirc at the mo
[01:52] <cbx33> can you pm me?
[01:52] <kbrooks> cbx33: yes
[02:01] <kbrooks> bbl school
[03:09] <EmxBA> hi
[04:09] <cbx33> woot
[04:09] <cbx33> anyone near ogra?
[04:11] <lucasvo> cbx33: yes, about 300km
[04:30] <Yagisan> G'day jsgotangco
[04:30] <jsgotangco> hi
[04:31] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: thanks to our resident HedgeMage I have a shiny new cloak :)
[04:31] <jsgotangco> really?
[04:31] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: so, what have you been up to ?
[04:31] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: yep.
[04:32] <jsgotangco> Yagisan: im in paris beside ogra
[04:32] <Yagisan> lucky guy
[05:14] <Petaris> To use ltsp do I need to grab edubuntu or can I grab xubuntu and apt-get ltsp?
[05:15] <DanielC> Use edubuntu
[05:16] <Petaris> DanielC: And then just apt-get xubuntu?
[05:16] <DanielC> I'd guess:  xubuntu-desktop
[05:16] <DanielC> Note: I haven't tried this myself.
[05:16] <Petaris> ok
[05:17] <Petaris> I'll give that a try
[05:17] <DanielC> Let me know if it works, I'd be interested to know.
[05:18] <Petaris> well, thats how I did it last time
[05:19] <Petaris> but I was curious if I could avoid getting all the gnome and kde stuff
[05:19] <DanielC> Yes you can, but it's probably more difficult.
[05:20] <DanielC> Installing xubuntu-desktop afterwards is easier than configuring ltsp afterwards.
[05:20] <Petaris> ok
[05:20] <DanielC> But you can try it that way. You *will* get it to work eventually. I've never done it, but it can certainly be done.
[05:21] <Petaris> hrm
[05:21] <Petaris> I might play with doing it that way then
[05:21] <Petaris> jsut for the hell of it
[05:21] <DanielC> It would be a learning experience.
[05:21] <DanielC> If I get a chance I think I'll try that too on a test server.
[05:22] <Petaris> yep, if its not difficult I could write a how-to
[05:22] <Petaris> DanielC: Dapper or Edgy?
[05:23] <DanielC> Dapper
[05:23] <Petaris> ok
[05:27] <Yagisan> Petaris: it is easier to install edubuntu first, but no, you don't need edubuntu installed to set up ltsp
[05:28] <Yagisan> Petaris: you can install xubuntu, then install ltsp, you'll just need to manually configure ltsp
[05:28] <Petaris> Yagisan: ok, I'm going to try using xubuntu as the base just to try it
[05:28] <Petaris> Yagisan: Is it the latest ltsp?
[05:28] <Yagisan> Petaris: I used normal ubuntu as the base for myself
[05:28] <DanielC> What's the advantage of using Xubuntu other than personal preference?
[05:28] <Petaris> I heard there is a new version out
[05:28] <Yagisan> Petaris: in dapper ? yes
[05:29] <Yagisan> Petaris: ltsp.org and ubuntu ltsp work differently
[05:29] <Petaris> DanielC: less overhead for terminals
[05:29] <Yagisan> Petaris: ubuntu's ltsp is the next generation version
[05:29] <DanielC> Gnome really adds overhead on the terminals?
[05:29] <Petaris> Yagisan: oh damn, thats right
[05:29] <Petaris> DanielC: compared to xfce4 it does
[05:29] <Yagisan> Petaris: sudo aptitude install ltsp and it's installed. Then you need to configure it
[05:30] <DanielC> ok
[05:30] <Petaris> Yagisan: right
[05:30] <Petaris> DanielC: When you are running a number of clients the overhead adds up
[05:30] <Petaris> its not like just running a single instance
[05:32] <DanielC> It isn't?
[05:32] <DanielC> Isn't that the whole point of using thin clients?
[05:32] <DanielC> That you don't have to duplicate the heap for every user?
[05:33] <Petaris> you get an instance for each client
[05:33] <Petaris> the point is low cost hardware and easy upgrade/managability
[05:33] <DanielC> But running two instances of Gnome on the same computer still shares the same heap.
[05:33] <DanielC> It's just the user data that changes.
[05:33] <DanielC> (and hence, can't be shared)
[05:34] <DanielC> The reason why the hardware is low cost is that you're not duplicating everything for every user.
[05:39] <Petaris> low cost hardware because no disk drives, and the bulk of the processing is done server side
[05:40] <DanielC> The reason why the server doesn't require the resources of 20 computers to run 20 clients is that you are not replicating everything.
[05:40] <DanielC> If a regular computer requires 512MB of RAM, running LTSP with 10 terminals does not require 5120MB of RAM.
[05:41] <DanielC> In fact, 1-2GB will do.
[05:41] <DanielC> Because 90% of what's in RAM is the heap (the code itself for the application) and that stuff is not replicated.
[05:41] <DanielC> It's the same reason why having two Firefox windows open doesn't take up twice as much RAM as having one.
[05:43] <Petaris> My perception in running is that xfce is faster and lighter then gnome
[05:43] <DanielC> I'm not arguing with that :)
[05:43] <Petaris> and thus was a better choice for a thin-client enviornment
[05:43] <DanielC> I didn't say Gnome was as fast as xfce. I said that you're not duplicating all of gnome for each user.
[05:44] <Petaris> perhaps not
[05:44] <DanielC> Whether it's better depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
[05:44] <Petaris> for me xfce does what I need
[05:46] <Petaris> I would love to know why OO.org eats so many more resources on edubuntu then on k12ltsp
[05:46] <Petaris> I wonder what the difference is
[05:47] <Petaris> was OO.org modified on one of these distros?
[05:47] <DanielC> No idea.
[05:47] <Petaris> hrm
[05:47] <Petaris> hrm
[05:48] <Petaris> its odd
[05:48] <Petaris> but then again the fc/redhat group is known for doing wierd things in packages
[07:15] <EmxBA> hi
[08:40] <kbrooks> cbx33: ping
[08:40] <cbx33> kbrooks, pong
[08:42] <pc22> hey DanielC
[08:44] <kbrooks> cbx33: you were confused...
[08:44] <kbrooks> cbx33: hold on, ill pm why
[08:46] <Petaris> Is there a resource on how to setup remote X over ssh
[08:48] <cbx33> ok
[08:48] <cbx33> thanks kbrooks 
[08:49] <kbrooks> cbx33: well, i dont have to pm. but anyway
[08:49] <kbrooks> cbx33: http://kbrooks.ath.cx/gisomount/ - this had a working tree
[08:49] <kbrooks> cbx33: .bzr/branch was "up to date"
[08:50] <kbrooks> cbx33: you were confused because you assumed that the *working tree* was old
[08:55] <Petaris> hrm
[08:55] <Petaris> how can I start an xfce session over ssh?
[08:57] <Petaris> do I just issue a startx?
[08:57] <Petaris> I wouldn't think so
[08:57] <Petaris> *as X is already running on that system
[09:01] <dan_young> Petaris: can you ssh -X to the server, then Xnest -query localhost :1
[09:02] <Petaris> hrm, I don't have Xnest
[09:03] <Petaris> hrm
[09:03] <Petaris> is it safe to apt-get it?
[09:03] <Petaris> that is, will it scew up Xorg?
[09:03] <Petaris> or try to remove it or something
[09:04] <dan_young> Petaris: shouldn't be a problem, not sure what package it is in, just a sec....
[09:04] <dan_young> Xnest goes on the system you're ssh'ing to, of course...
[09:05] <Petaris> right
[09:05] <Petaris> but its an ltsp server and I don't want to screw anything up
[09:06] <dan_young> sure, package name is xnest, it is just an "Xserver in a window"
[09:06] <Petaris> ok, cool
[09:08] <dan_young> Petaris: hmm, needs XDMCP on to do "remote" login, even though we're coming from localhost...
[09:09] <Petaris> root@Ayumi:~# Xnest -query localhost :1
[09:09] <Petaris> Fatal server error:
[09:09] <Petaris> Unable to open display "".
[09:09] <Petaris> hrm
[09:09] <Petaris> oh, oops I'm still root
[09:10] <Petaris> petaris@Ayumi:~$ Xnest -query :1
[09:10] <Petaris> Fatal server error:
[09:10] <Petaris> Xserver: Name or service not known: -query :1
[09:10] <Petaris> hrm
[09:10] <dan_young> Petaris: Xnest -query localhost :1
[09:10] <dan_young> you'll have to edit /etc/gdm/gdm.conf and enable XDMCP
[09:10] <Petaris> petaris@Ayumi:~$ Xnest -query localhost :1
[09:10] <Petaris> _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed
[09:10] <Petaris> _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: server already running
[09:10] <Petaris> Fatal server error:
[09:10] <Petaris> Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running
[09:11] <Petaris> ok, let me check that
[09:11] <dan_young> Petaris: that does have some security implications to leave open on a hostile network, so be advised...
[09:14] <Petaris> right
[09:14] <Petaris> still can't get it to work
[09:20] <dan_young> Petaris: it's working on my K12LTSP box, not sure what's different...
[09:21] <dan_young> Petaris: I'm seeing the same issue on Edubuntu, though; I'm less familiar with their setup.
[09:22] <Petaris> hrm
[10:20] <cbx33> hey Yagisan 
[10:42] <Yagisan> G'day cbx33
[10:52] <cbx33> without looking
[10:52] <cbx33> I see your messages function