=== AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === AndyFit1 [n=AndyFitz@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFit1 is now known as AndyFitz === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Drom is now known as Drom|zZz === AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === buggzero [n=buggzero@71-34-137-77.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === msikma [n=msikma@a82-93-143-114.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === jd_ [n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Drom|zZz is now known as Drom === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === lapo [n=bat@host166-243-static.46-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [11:49] hi === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === kwwii [n=kwwii@likes.smoking.more.than.watching.spacenight.dk] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [12:45] moin [12:45] anyone home? [12:45] live from Paris [12:47] yeah but on the 2nd floor heh === fschoep [n=frank@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [12:50] Hi! [12:51] hi frank === jd__ [n=jd@APuteaux-151-1-52-178.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:17] moin [01:17] how is Paris? === jd_ [n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:55] Hello === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bersace [n=bersace@did75-13-82-243-217-90.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:17] re === indraveni [n=veni@203.129.255.178] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:18] Hello to Paris === fschoep [n=frank@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === offs [n=offs@200.168.14.165] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:19] I'm back from lunch [02:19] You guys are privilidged to be in Paris so you'd better be enjoying yourselves :) [02:20] *privileged [02:20] hi.. [02:20] We are trapped in a bunker :) === offs is Thiago Ribeiro [02:20] Troy says hi\ [02:20] Hi there Troy! [02:21] Man, I wish I could be there. But it's so busy here at work. And I've got a three-week vacation planned... [02:21] Guess I'll try to come next year. [02:21] Have you looked into the specifications in launchpad yet? [02:21] So what events have there been thus far? [02:21] We've had dinner, breakfast and lunch. [02:21] I personally have not, although I've taken a few peeks in there. [02:22] hi [02:22] https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-paris/+specs [02:22] That's kind of what we're going to discuss here. [02:23] https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs [02:24] That's the list of specs for the art team. [02:25] That is just the current list, Troy, Kenneth and I are discussing other things on top of that list at the moment, like submission guidelines, file formats and licensing issues and GPG signing. === kwwii reboots [02:25] brb [02:25] By the way [02:25] "Improve progress bar for gnome" needs to be "usplash visual improvements" [02:25] gpg signing? for the package? [02:25] I'll edit it myself later if I'm able to, but I'm not sure [02:25] Ah, Ican [02:25] iCan [02:26] Jerome, GPG signing would be to indicate the submission takes the license in account so that we can prevent legal issues afterwards. [02:27] oh okay fair enough [02:27] =) [02:27] damn ! i forgot the summit ! [02:27] i live in Paris ! [02:28] lol [02:28] kwwii - where are you? [02:28] come here and liberate us! [02:28] We're downstairs. [02:28] Etienne we'd be happy to have you here :0 [02:29] I live one TGV away from Paris... [02:29] If only it were in Rotterdam :) [02:30] fschoep: so you're in that hostel ? [02:30] what conf are planned for today [02:30] I am, alongside Troy James Sobotka and we had Kenneth Wimer earlier here. [02:31] There's a lot of conferences planned, but almost no artwork ones because we didn't add specifications to the distro sprint list. [02:31] do you know the RER station ? [02:31] (i know this is line B3) [02:31] but which station ? [02:31] It is, I think it is CDG 2. [02:31] ok [02:31] ok [02:31] and, if i come, what can we do together [02:32] other than taking a beer [02:32] i mean, i want to talk with the wiki bugsquad [02:32] We have a lot of Wiki stuff to do and we could certainly use another member with a laptop. [02:32] ok, [02:33] so do you advice me to come with a laptop (old) and work together with you at CDG ? [02:33] does it worth it ? [02:33] No, you could try to take the hotel shuttle bus to Radisson SAS. It's a small silver bus. [02:34] say what ? [02:34] no ? [02:34] no i shouldn't come or no it doesn't cost ? [02:35] - === indraveni [n=veni@203.129.255.178] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] [02:35] It would definitely be great if you could come over. [02:35] ok [02:35] so i'll come [02:35] e dtro [02:35] ? [02:36] et troy here [02:36] we are kind of ry [02:36] trying to bang out some new stuffs fro the wiki [02:36] you talked to pas yet: [02:36] ? [02:36] (mac keyboards suck ass) [02:37] you there et? [02:38] fschoep: i'm bersace [02:38] and i'm preparing my laptop :) [02:38] ber -- i am using frank's keybaord now -- its troy [02:39] we could perhaps meet for an hour a few times this week and get you to pass the stuffs onto pascal as well === fschoep is troy right now. frank is sitting beside me. [02:41] Yeah, Mac keyboards suck. They look very pretty, but I don't like typing with them as much as some of the keyboards I've used. [02:42] so, i'm ready to go [02:42] but, i want to be sure to meet you soon and not search my way for long hours [02:42] OK [02:42] you said the station is CDG2 in line RER B3 [02:42] then i take a RAS Shuttle to the RAS bunker [02:43] If you are at the CDG2 station you can take a shuttle bus to Radisson SAS. [02:43] then where to meet you ? [02:43] It should work. [02:43] ok [02:43] Depends on what time you are at the hotel. [02:43] can i just say "i come for Ubuntu Summit" [02:43] and they let me enter ? === jsgotangco_ [n=jsg123@ALagny-109-1-9-234.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:43] where do you stay ? [02:44] which stair ? [02:44] which room ? [02:44] If you are in the lobby, you'll find it. [02:44] We're in several conference rooms. [02:44] moin [02:44] From 15:00 to 16:00 we'll be in the Dionisys room. [02:45] how can i recognize you ? [02:45] for your sake, i'm wearing a black debian sweat shirt and have a black debian bag for my laptop [02:45] i wear glasses [02:45] OK, we saw your face on launchpad. [02:46] Troy is bald and I look like Frank. [02:46] hh [02:46] There should be Ubuntu merchandise.. maybe a neat job for the art team? [02:46] I should put that on the Launchpad. [02:46] and i have a "goatee beard" :P [02:46] Anyway Etienne, you can find a lot of Ubuntu guys in the Atlas conference room. [02:46] ok [02:46] let's go [02:47] Whoa. Let's just hope that it goes well. [02:48] I tried to make a spec to discuss marketing but it was removed [02:48] I made a few banners (like the one outside the door of the conference room) [02:49] making leaflets, t-shirts, buttons, stickers, etc...would be really nice [02:50] you folks have fun :) === fschoep off to another conference room === fschoep [n=frank@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === jsgotangco_ [n=jsg123@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === jsgotangco_ [n=jsg123@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Riyonuk [i=Riyonuk@ptp6178.ktc.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === SS2 [n=SS2@dslb-084-057-021-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:04] So how's Paris going? [04:08] it's fabulous === klepas is guessing from hi room in Canberra, Australia [04:08] ;) === fschoep [n=frank@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:19] re === bersace [n=bersace@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:29] klepas: ping [04:29] i'm at uds [04:30] with troy, and other [04:30] nice [04:30] what do we plan to do with that wiki [04:30] i mean [04:30] how to apply changes === newz2000 [n=Matthew@66.43.198.98] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:30] ? [04:30] check your email :) [04:30] i sent you and brian an email concerning the wiki [04:31] nice === fschoep_ [n=frank@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:33] :) [04:34] hmm [04:37] klepas: i'm creating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%c3%89tienneBersac/ArtworkReOrganisation/NewTree [04:37] In order to create a complete tree of the new Artwork Namespace [04:37] as list [04:37] (wiki is more collaborative than a plain text [04:37] ) [04:38] try gobby [04:38] good idea [04:38] brb [04:46] thanks bersace === qmf [i=qmf@cpc3-epso1-0-0-cust1009.hers.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:53] does anyone know how to make icons in photoshop? [05:03] Riyonuk: can you be more specific regarding your request? [05:06] Like you know how they use iconpackager and they make those profesional looking icons [05:06] well i want to know how to make them, thers a tutorial on icon a day, but thats for correl [05:07] icosn for the ubuntu desktop? [05:09] yes [05:10] I've never seen iconpackager, but a quick google implies that it's for creating Windows XP desktop themes... [05:11] yeah, but i would like to know how to create icons for ubuntu also [05:11] Also, I'm not positive, but I think increasingly icons are made as SVG, which photoshop can't do. Instead you need a program like Inkscape or Illustrator. [05:12] why might i ask? [05:12] Well, SVG icons can be resized without loosing quality. They can be big or small and they still look good. [05:13] Corel is also a vector program and it's artwork can often be resized without loosing quality. [05:13] Ubuntu's art website has a color pallete for Photoshop that lists the colors we typically use... download that. [05:13] is that the only reason? I can still make them in photoshop then [05:14] Then, maybe glance at this tutorial and see if helps: [05:14] http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Creating_Icons/ [05:14] bingo thats what im looking for [05:14] let me see if I can find a link to the pallette for psd. [05:15] have a lovely time in Paris people :) [05:15] arent' you there pascal? [05:15] a short update via the ML would be lovely :) [05:15] oh, no :) [05:15] my cozzy room, Canberra, Australia [05:15] oh, I thought you were. I was a bit jelous too. ;-) [05:15] i wish i was there [05:15] (matt nuzum btw) [05:15] ah, cool [05:15] I'm in a cubicle in Des Moines Iowa. [05:16] cool [05:16] i couldn't go for various reasons... primarily exams week begins this wednesday and i don't have the money [05:17] pascal, do you know where the color palletes are for the ubuntu desktop? It seems they used to be accessible on the diy marketing page [05:17] I saw them recently but can't find them now [05:17] newz2000: i can send the SVGs to you [05:17] i can't remember what on earth happened to them [05:17] Riyonuk asked about them here in the chat room [05:17] i can email them to you now if you like [05:17] he wants the photoshop version [05:17] ah, okay [05:17] i'm clueless too [05:17] I'll find them, I was just curious if you knew [05:18] wha? [05:18] i know a PS colour palette was available.. [05:18] any how i shall be off [05:18] past 1 AM and i have classes :) [05:18] ttl. [05:19] found those palettes btw :) [05:19] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official [05:19] ah. Thanks. [05:19] Riyonuk, did you get that link? [05:19] this bezier tool, PS doesnt have that [05:19] that has the PS palette files too [05:19] It has one like it... check the pen [05:19] the gimp tutorial? [05:20] cheerio [05:20] the pens hard, lol === klepas is now known as klepas_Zzz [05:20] no, the link klepas sent has a photoshop color palette [05:20] yeah, it takes a lot of practice [05:21] down at the bottom of that page that klepas sent the link to there is a link to the colors used on the ubuntu desktop. There's two for photoshop. [05:21] ill try, can you give me something to work on, like something you might need, im not gonna make a tv.. [05:21] there's a page with a bunch of requests... might be getting old now though. Let me find the link. [05:21] PS swatch? [05:22] yeah, that will work [05:22] how do i use it? [05:22] Riyonuk: www.tango-project.org (i know... should be sleeping) [05:23] cheers [05:23] On your color pallete tool window, I think there's a little icon in the top left corner... there you will have the option to load a palette. [05:23] alright === msikma_ [n=msikma@a82-93-143-114.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:25] Riyonuk: http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Library#How_to_Participate [05:25] thanks, I g2g but ill be back later [05:25] later [05:26] posted === fschoep_ [n=frank@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === kwwii [n=kwwii@likes.smoking.more.than.watching.spacenight.dk] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Konversation] === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === fschoep_ [n=frank@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [06:12] Riyonuk, you probably do not want to use Photoshop to create icons. === fschoep_ [n=frank@ALagny-109-1-2-23.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn [n=andreas@h44n2fls34o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bersace [n=bersace@did75-13-82-243-217-90.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === msikma [n=michiel@ip132-160-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [09:08] Inkscape is pretty nice. [09:09] How's Paris, guys? [09:10] I'm not a big vector person, but I like Inkscape much better than Illustrator... maybe becuase of the tutorials that come with it [09:10] I'm not in paris, btw. :-( [09:18] I don't think I've seen you in this chatroom before. [09:19] Im matt nuzum on the mailing list... I'm not usually on IRC [09:19] I wanted to be around while the paris event was going on though [09:21] I'm in the US so the time zone diff allows me to miss a good portion of the activity I'll bet. They've probably moved the show down to the pub by now. [09:22] Hehe [09:49] I've been working on an experimental wallpaper: http://thingmajig.org/tmp/_ubuntu_wall1test.jpg [09:50] Still very unpolished (especially the areas with very low stress, you can clearly see the lack of colors a monitor can produce there) but it's a start. [09:59] not bad [09:59] What's your inspiration? [10:11] English tea. [10:12] I wouldn't have guessed! === lapo [n=lapo@host40-67.pool8261.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [10:31] hi [10:43] Hey lapo [10:43] yo msikma [10:44] I've been working on an experimental wallpaper today [10:44] Maybe you'd like to fool around with it a little. It's still pretty early. [10:44] http://thingmajig.org/tmp/_ubuntu_wall1test.jpg [10:45] For one thing, I want to tone down the luminosity considerably. [10:45] looks nice [10:46] I'd try to reduce contrast a bit [10:46] Thanks! I used some 3D rendering to get the basic shapes, but most work was done in Photoshop. [10:46] Yeah, it's a little heavy right now, isn't it? [10:46] The colors are also so saturated. [10:47] I think the colors are mostly ok, btw consider I'm kinda colorblind [10:48] looks cool tho, I'll try to use it [10:49] Oh, well, it's supposed to be brown/orange-ish. [10:49] yeah, I'm not that colorblind :-) [10:50] I'm usin it [10:50] it needs to be darjer [10:50] uh [10:50] ugh [10:50] darker even :-) [10:50] Which colors can you not see, then? Isn't it so that a lot of people with partial color-blindness have trouble telling red and green apart? [10:50] Yeah, it does. I think I'm just gonna rip off the color scheme of the current default Dapper wallpaper. [10:51] some purple and some blues, bright green/yellow/red [10:51] That reminds me of... cmyk. [10:51] led colors are problematic for me, since I'm a sysadmin I need my collegue to check the lights on the network switches :-) [10:53] I don't like very much the current color scheme of ubuntu [10:53] the base colors are ok, not the way stuff is mixed together [10:53] What color scheme would you prefer? [10:54] Well, I do agree that the orangification sometimes takes on monstrous results. [10:54] yeah, we have orange everywhere [10:54] btw I hink we'll have to live with it [10:54] I strongly support moderation of orange. That way the parts that are orange will have a better impact, too. [10:54] the current ubuntu looks is kinda cold [10:55] I think we should use a darker gray or a sand color for the gui theme base [10:55] something warmer [10:55] We seem to play it cautious with wallpaper backgrounds (unless you install calendar, then you get the opposite)... it would be fun to see a little more bold/vibrant options. [10:55] Kind of what the HumanLegacy theme has? [10:56] yep, perhaps something a bit more saturated [10:56] something like the brighter brown of the tango palette [10:56] There is one thing I really don't agree with in the current human theme. [10:56] Well, there are more things I disagree with, but one in particular. [10:56] The color of the title bar. [10:57] yap [10:57] oh really? I liked it. [10:57] yep, that one as well [10:57] It's strangely desaturated and different from the other orange tints and it's too bright. [10:57] You mean the window decoration? [10:57] Because it's so bright it's difficult to read the title. [10:57] yes, metacity theme [10:57] The orange title bar at the top of windows. [10:57] Hmm... you know, diff monitors may show that differently. My current computer has relatively low contrast so i may not being seeing the real deal [10:57] The brown one was better because it had a much better contrast while it didn't look bad on slightly higher saturation values. [10:57] orange is really cool on a dark gray theme [10:58] I've got mine calibrated pretty well. And I've checked on a couple of computers, anyway. [10:59] did you guys ever use ximian gnome desktop before it became part of Novell? They had a very interesting variety of backgrounds... the default was a very safe background like we use on Ubuntu, but then they had a mix of arts and photo backgrounds. I really liked the choice. [11:01] newz2000: yes [11:01] newz2000: that's because jimmac is a genius [11:02] newz2000: btw check out gnome-backgrounds, I kinda proud of what we have now :-) [11:02] I think it's awful that we can't set a few default "folders" for people to look for pictures in. We should make the background panel so that there are a few folders of different types of images. Instead, there's just a HUGE LIST. [11:02] really? Didn't know about that one. I will. (in windows atm though) [11:02] just apt-get gnome-backgrounds [11:02] And I didn't vote for any of the wallpapers when it was being held on the mailing list. [11:02] well, I think we have as a higher priority fitting all on one disk [11:02] Because I didn't really like any of the choices. [11:03] There were a few okay ones, but I didn't see any that I actually found good. [11:03] as we get more organized we'll spend more time coming up with good ideas and less time trying to figure out what we're doing. It's a progression and we're on our way I think. [11:03] There are tons of free resources available for brilliant free-license photos that we could also include in Ubuntu. I don't see why we're not making use of it and will attempt to remedy this for Edgy. [11:03] I'm peeved that we're "just" an artwork team and aren't really able to make major UI changes. [11:04] Well, not necessarily MAJOR. [11:04] But it would be excellent if we could toss up suggestions for UI-related things. [11:04] I guess I'll just add some more bugreports to Gnome. [11:04] I wish I were a C programmer. [11:05] I've personally talked to canonical management and their hope is to see the team become more productive and to take on responsibility once the team is more organized, and the paris meeting will take us strides close to that. [11:05] I can allready see huge improvements in the last 2 weeks [11:05] msikma: be careful what you wish for... you may get it! [11:06] I personally am interested in doing some managing, but I'd rather just get busy with development. [11:06] Heh, hopefully. [11:06] :) [11:06] Learning C is on my list of things to learn at some point. [11:06] I think it's below Python and Modtracking. [11:06] Why do you want to learn C? [11:07] Because then I could actually make valuable contributions to many Linux programs, since it seems that C is the standard language for OS-related programs in Linux. [11:07] ah. [11:07] Tell me if I'm very wrong on that. [11:07] I'm not entirely sure. [11:07] Well, here's a warning, [11:07] most of gnome/gtk uses glib, which is much harder to learn then C. [11:08] Heh, darn. [11:08] I know C but going into glib applications blew my mind for about the first 15 times. [11:08] All I know is ActionScript. [11:08] actionscript is based on C so the syntax is similar. [11:09] I do know very advanced ActionScript and can probably make everything that I would ever want to in that environment, but it's still not really a real programming language. [11:09] The only things you'd need to really get comfortable with are pointers, structs and strong typing. [11:09] Yeah, ActionScript doesn't give you much rope to hang yourself with. [11:09] I've heard that arrays in C can't contain multiple data types. [11:09] true [11:09] That's what structs are for. [11:09] It's kind of like a class with no methods. [11:09] So myArray = ["test", 39] isn't correct [11:10] How does a struct look? [11:10] syntax isn't fresh in my mind, so I'd strongly suggest googling for examples, lest I steer you wrong. [11:10] What about Python? Do you know anything about that? [11:11] yeah, I much prefer python [11:11] I use it all the time [11:11] Very cool. I hear it's rapidly becoming the favorite language of many programmers. [11:11] python is cool [11:12] yeah, its the new perl. [11:12] or should I say, Perl++ [11:12] It was invented by a Dutchie :) [11:12] a lot less messy then perl :-) [11:12] definately [11:12] Oh, by the way, this is the coolest snippet of Actionscript that I've written: http://msikma.pastebin.com/704115 - I sometimes use this to show off to other ActionScript programmers. [11:13] guido van rossum [11:13] It converts XML data into an object that's easily accessible. [11:13] Cool. [11:13] When I last used AS seriously, Flash 5 was out and had just introduced xml support, but it was very rough. [11:13] It's not really all that complicated, anyway. [11:13] Yeah, Flash 5 had awful XML support. It was also extremely slow. [11:14] msikma: are you old enough to have known mac os when it has a sane gui? :-) [11:14] A slightly large site could sometimes take 10 seconds just to parse the XML. [11:14] Cool. It looks like they've seriously embraced dom. [11:14] I love the fact that once you learn dom you can bounce between many diff languages with ease. [11:14] I think the Mac OS X 10.4 GUI is very sane. Although 10.0 through 10.3 had major flaws. 10.4 is also not without flaws, but it's still a good GUI, I would say. I've used OS9, too. [11:14] I actually love OS9's UI. [11:15] I liked os pre 10 very much, I can't stand osx [11:15] I feel very nastalgic when I see OS < X. I don't care for it though. [11:15] I like the way OS9's UI was made. For one thing, I like that every single dialog box on the entire system was well-written and self-explanitory. [11:16] the os underneat was very crappy, but the gui was a lot better imho [11:16] I really miss tabbed windows at the bottom of the screen. [11:16] yeah, osx is not that polished [11:16] 10.2 to 10.3 was a gigantic update, though. 10.4 also brought forth a lot of good changes. I think 10.5 will be the release of an excellent UI. [11:17] But I still think it's too bad that some extremely useful OS9 things were dropped. [11:17] I also think that the list view in OSX is inferior to that of OS9 [11:17] yeah [11:17] are you both mac users when not in Linux? [11:17] There's one thing that I think OS9 did particularly well: visual (and audiovisual) feedback. [11:17] nope, I don't use macs since a loong time [11:18] I'm mostly a linux user [11:18] I used Windows computers for a long time. [11:18] But Windows XP really isn't an enjoyable OS to use. [11:18] yeah [11:18] I still use it because I have a laptop which runs it, but I've bought an Intel iMac recently. I'm going to try and sell my old laptop. [11:18] I can't stand it anymore :-) [11:19] My current job requires mostly Windows use, but I start a new job in July where I'll be able to switch to Linux full time. [11:19] Neat. [11:19] yeah. It's been a while. I'm a little aprehensive, but I think I can handle. [11:19] I've got photoshop working in Linux, so now I just need to get my electronics stuff working [11:19] when you use linux for some time you can never come back to anythin else [11:20] Yeah, I've switched back and forth about 5 times in the last 6 years or so. [11:20] Man, on OS9... do any of you remember how versatile its audio engine was? [11:20] Almost everything could get a sound. [11:20] And things could get three sounds for just one thing-- a starting sound, a looping sound in the middle of the action, and an ending sound. [11:21] yeah, like dnd, I relly liked that feature [11:21] How is that useful? [11:21] and the sounds the defaulted to [11:21] How is it not useful? [11:22] It simply means the user can get better audiovisual feedback of what he is doing. [11:22] newz2000: it was cool, the sounds were not invesive like in windows or kde [11:22] Something doesn't necessarily need to have an actual production value to be valuable to the user. [11:22] The only thing I remember was that Mac could read the programs output, which was fun because you could pick the musical tone it used, but I didn't experience the other features. [11:24] For its time, it was definitely the best system. [11:25]