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| raphink | @schedule Paris | 12:30 |
|---|---|---|
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Paris: 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 12:30 |
| Hawkwind | @schedule Houston | 12:31 |
| Hawkwind | @schedule chicago | 12:32 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/Chicago: 20 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 08:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 16:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 07:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 08:30: Xubuntu | 12:32 |
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| GNAM | @schedule rome | 08:48 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Rome: 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 08:48 |
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| jenda | @schedule Prague | 10:54 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Prague: 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 10:54 |
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| Sp4rKy | hi | 11:03 |
| jenda | aloha, Sp4rKy | 11:03 |
| Sp4rKy | please when does a date for new Members should be published ? | 11:04 |
| jenda | Sp4rKy: nobody knows... | 11:09 |
| Sp4rKy | jenda, k thx | 11:09 |
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| jjesse | imbrandon and matthais klose both have nice microphones that i can hear over the internet | 04:16 |
| Hobbsee | mornfall's is quite good as well | 04:17 |
| fabbione | is anybody actually speaking around the table? | 04:17 |
| imbrandon | jjesse, i'm not in paris though ;( | 04:17 |
| jjesse | ah | 04:17 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: run quickly! | 04:17 |
| imbrandon | i think someone should atleaste put a mic in the middle | 04:17 |
| imbrandon | hehehe | 04:17 |
| jjesse | agreed | 04:17 |
| imbrandon | Hobbsee, hop on i'll piggy back you with me | 04:17 |
| === imbrandon runs * | ||
| Hobbsee | heh | 04:18 |
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| imbrandon | it would be pointless to be in paris at the same table and talk totaly on irc ;) | 04:19 |
| shenki | pointless, but funny :) | 04:19 |
| Hobbsee | :P | 04:19 |
| fabbione | we can't hear ANYTHING | 04:19 |
| fabbione | it's just noise or almost | 04:19 |
| Hobbsee | fabbione: we can type :P | 04:20 |
| fabbione | Hobbsee: pointless if you can't hear | 04:20 |
| imbrandon | Hobbsee, but we need to hear to type anything worth saying | 04:20 |
| Hobbsee | oh, i was more meaning we can hear you, adn we can type | 04:20 |
| sfllaw | I guess the only thing that we can do is... | 04:20 |
| sfllaw | Use Gobby and sign in to gobby.uds.ubuntu.com:9001 | 04:20 |
| sfllaw | There's a chat program there and you can see the spec being typed up. | 04:20 |
| imbrandon | well the last meeting sabdfl kinda repeated the major points over voip | 04:21 |
| jsgotangco | it is very faint even though i am just across the group | 04:21 |
| Seveas | sfllaw, not much going on at 9001 | 04:21 |
| sfllaw | Seveas: That's because we're talking in real-life and interrupting each other. | 04:21 |
| sfllaw | But we'll be typing things up. | 04:22 |
| Seveas | ah, bug in gobby | 04:22 |
| Seveas | it connects me to 9007 | 04:22 |
| Seveas | even though I change to 9001 | 04:22 |
| fabbione | same here | 04:22 |
| fabbione | ok i am off this session | 04:22 |
| ajmitch | yes, it works if you change with the spinner, not with the text field | 04:22 |
| imbrandon | sfllaw, can you also speak the major things in VoIP | 04:22 |
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| fabbione | is mdz there at the table? | 04:23 |
| doko | fabbione: yes | 04:24 |
| fabbione | doko: why isn't he on TeamSpeak? | 04:24 |
| doko | fabbione: if I understood it right, configuration problem | 04:25 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: they cant hear us, remember? | 04:26 |
| fabbione | doko: can you please ask him to relay to the meeting my suggestion of the +3 weeks? | 04:26 |
| imbrandon | yea but some of them can | 04:26 |
| Hobbsee | true | 04:26 |
| fabbione | doko: with this shit there is no way to partecipate | 04:26 |
| jjesse | whoever was last speaking came acrross nice an clean | 04:26 |
| imbrandon | jamesToup Can for one etc | 04:26 |
| Hobbsee | it's sounding pretty good - mic down +1 | 04:27 |
| fabbione | bah | 04:27 |
| fabbione | they are already half way in the meeting | 04:27 |
| jjesse | what was the gobby session? | 04:27 |
| fabbione | 9001 | 04:27 |
| ajmitch | I can hear kamion fairly well when the mic is on | 04:27 |
| jjesse | hmm getting a protocol error mismatch | 04:27 |
| ajmitch | only because of the headphones, it's no good with speakers | 04:27 |
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| mdz | fabbione: what? | 04:28 |
| imbrandon | [09:26] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: they cant hear us, remember? | 04:28 |
| imbrandon | [09:26] <fabbione> doko: can you please ask him to relay to the meeting my suggestion of the +3 weeks? | 04:28 |
| imbrandon | [09:26] <imbrandon> yea but some of them can | 04:28 |
| fabbione | mdz: can you please relay my suggestion (like we did talk in london) to add +3 weeks? | 04:28 |
| fabbione | TeamSpeak doesn't work | 04:28 |
| fabbione | and we can't hear a thing here | 04:28 |
| imbrandon | cept each other | 04:29 |
| fabbione | so we also have no clue of where the conversation is at the moment | 04:29 |
| jjesse | just random talking, i think it works better when people actually talk into a mic and not a central mic | 04:29 |
| fabbione | doko: thanks dude | 04:29 |
| imbrandon | even if just one person relays the major points ( like sabdfl did for the last session ) | 04:30 |
| jenda | @now | 04:30 |
| Ubugtu | Current time in Etc/UTC: June 19 2006, 14:30:49 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 1 day | 04:30 |
| mdz | fabbione: that suggestion was vetoed by sabdfl months ago, sorry | 04:31 |
| fabbione | mdz: he said to re-proposite it again at the meeting | 04:32 |
| fabbione | re-propose | 04:32 |
| mdz | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule has been saved with the current working stuff | 04:32 |
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| mdz | fabbione: said to whom and when? | 04:33 |
| fabbione | mdz: to me in London when we were all out | 04:33 |
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| fabbione | sfllaw: wasn't the page supposed to be edited in gobby? | 04:33 |
| jjesse | it is in gobby rightn ow | 04:34 |
| fabbione | mdz: i suggest to postpone Beta freeze one or two weeks later... | 04:36 |
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| fabbione | mdz: given the nature of edgy i see no point in one and a half month of freeze | 04:36 |
| imbrandon | exactly | 04:38 |
| jjesse | hmm this team speak kinda sucks :( | 04:38 |
| imbrandon | with such a short release cycle why such a long freeze | 04:38 |
| imbrandon | jjesse, yea thee way they was doing it before was MUCH better | 04:39 |
| imbrandon | stleaste we had a relay then | 04:39 |
| jjesse | agreed | 04:39 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 04:39 |
| Kamion | it's worth putting it kinda close to the GNOME release, but yeah, maybe | 04:39 |
| jsgotangco | well its not popular in here either | 04:39 |
| Kamion | we've always done beta right after GNOME release | 04:39 |
| ajmitch | Kamion: is there a speculative UVF date? | 04:39 |
| jjesse | i was really interested in this discussion, not as interested in the last meeting | 04:39 |
| imbrandon | ajmitch, September 7th | 04:39 |
| Kamion | ajmitch: early discussions have been to just match it to FF | 04:40 |
| ajmitch | right | 04:40 |
| Kamion | this being a crack release | 04:40 |
| ajmitch | that sounds fair | 04:40 |
| fabbione | Kamion: is sab there around? | 04:40 |
| Kamion | ajmitch: but see the gobby, there's a "merge complete" which will get filled in | 04:40 |
| Kamion | fabbione: no | 04:40 |
| fabbione | bah | 04:40 |
| fabbione | Kamion: thanks | 04:40 |
| Kamion | I think he's embroiled in tabs | 04:41 |
| fabbione | yeah but he said that he was going to reevaluate the option to add 3 weeks to this release | 04:41 |
| fabbione | and if he is not around nobody is going to even try to talk to him about it | 04:41 |
| ajmitch | Kamion: I also care because of universe - we couldn't possibly get merges done in 2 weeks, but a late UVF suits us | 04:41 |
| Kamion | fabbione: we've been discussing it here | 04:42 |
| fabbione | Kamion: ok, but we can't hear a thing :) | 04:42 |
| Kamion | the prevailing opinion seems to be that we should just suck up the short release | 04:43 |
| fabbione | based on what rationale? | 04:43 |
| Kamion | (to relay jdub) partly as an external statement that we can do it (repairs time-based-release reputation from the dapper delay), and partly as an internal statement that we need to not delay releases too often | 04:43 |
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| Kamion | which personally, I have to say I agree with | 04:43 |
| fabbione | with a +3 weeks we are still below the 6 months release | 04:44 |
| jjesse | i think it would be nice to get back on track and not delay again | 04:44 |
| fabbione | it's not a delay | 04:44 |
| Kamion | it is, with respect to breezy | 04:44 |
| fabbione | and it will still match the commit of the within 6 monhts | 04:44 |
| imbrandon | i agree with that but such a long uvf on edgy ....... | 04:44 |
| fabbione | Kamion: right now we are at 4 monhts? | 04:44 |
| Kamion | we've said in public that we will release edgy in October | 04:44 |
| fabbione | 4 months + 3 week < 6 monhts | 04:44 |
| Kamion | if we slip from that, we're going to lose confidence | 04:44 |
| Kamion | 4.5 months, and dapper was 6 months + 6 weeks = 7.5 months | 04:45 |
| Kamion | the constraint is not 6 months from dapper, it's 12 months from breezy | 04:45 |
| imbrandon | fabbione, they are looking at it more as 1 year from breezy not 6 months from dapper | 04:45 |
| fabbione | i don't think this is even sane | 04:45 |
| Kamion | now it's your turn for rationale | 04:45 |
| fabbione | of course | 04:45 |
| fabbione | we committed to a 6 months release cycle | 04:46 |
| fabbione | we are 6 weeks delay | 04:46 |
| fabbione | split them in 2 | 04:46 |
| fabbione | +3 for edgy | 04:46 |
| fabbione | and +3 edgy+1 | 04:46 |
| fabbione | we go back in sync | 04:46 |
| fabbione | and we do 2 releases in less than 6 months | 04:46 |
| fabbione | and we don't die with one in 4.5 | 04:46 |
| fabbione | we are still committing to support edgy for 18 months | 04:46 |
| Kamion | yeah, I don't think we'll die though | 04:47 |
| fabbione | if it is too much crack it will be very difficul | 04:47 |
| fabbione | and we will lose users and confidence for real | 04:47 |
| Kamion | the answer is just to pick not quite such an insane number of goals, and to accept more slippage on goals | 04:47 |
| Kamion | really fascist on feature freeze | 04:47 |
| Kamion | for dapper, there was stuff we HAD to do | 04:47 |
| Kamion | (sabdfl-mandated) | 04:47 |
| Kamion | that is not the case for edgy | 04:47 |
| imbrandon | that and edgy will be buggy by nature | 04:48 |
| imbrandon | already | 04:48 |
| imbrandon | weather 4 or 6 months | 04:48 |
| fabbione | yeah it's exactly the same sab that suggested to re-discuss the 3 weeks thingy.. anyway i can hear a lot of people having fun there. | 04:48 |
| fabbione | so probably not even worth to discuss it anylonger | 04:48 |
| Kamion | (from jdub again) when gnome 2.6 was delayed, they just sucked up the damage, and 2.8 went right back on schedule | 04:48 |
| fabbione | gnome != ubuntu | 04:49 |
| imbrandon | better to dammage one release than 3 | 04:49 |
| jjesse | agreed imbrandon | 04:49 |
| fabbione | imbrandon: we are still committed to 18 months support for it | 04:49 |
| Kamion | sabdfl re-discuss> that's what he does when you pressure him about something he knows other people would be more involved with than he is - he tells you to discuss with them | 04:49 |
| imbrandon | fabbione, and we can do that , their will probbly just be more backports that way | 04:49 |
| imbrandon | its not LTS | 04:50 |
| fabbione | ok we are going no where and i am not there to grab the sab | 04:50 |
| imbrandon | its just 18 months | 04:50 |
| fabbione | imbrandon: 18 months are much more than you think.. specially because you don't need to support it | 04:50 |
| jsgotangco | that is like eternity for the security team | 04:51 |
| imbrandon | my point is if we short our self now and suck up the support for 18 months or do we short 3 releases and suck up the supoport 18x3 months | 04:51 |
| ajmitch | imbrandon: can you imagine supporting the current Xgl crack for 18 months? | 04:51 |
| imbrandon | ajmitch, backports | 04:51 |
| ajmitch | backports is not the answer to everything | 04:52 |
| imbrandon | witha 4.5 month release backports will be a must | 04:52 |
| ajmitch | you can't simply backport core parts of the distro | 04:52 |
| Riddell | imbrandon: why? shorter release means less backports | 04:52 |
| fabbione | imbrandon: backports are not a solution. | 04:52 |
| imbrandon | not everything but what about when we're short on 2 to 3 releases and we have not just one 18 months of hell we have 18x3 | 04:52 |
| fabbione | imbrandon: backports are overhead of work to maint an old distro in a sane way taking away resources from the one you are actually developing | 04:53 |
| ajmitch | Kamion: why did UVF jump back to mid-july on the current wiki page? | 04:53 |
| Kamion | not sure | 04:53 |
| fabbione | ajmitch: because they are editing in 2 different places? :) | 04:53 |
| Riddell | ajmitch: no advantage having it later, you can still bring in new upstreams as needed just not all of them | 04:54 |
| ajmitch | heh | 04:54 |
| Kamion | it's not remotely final | 04:54 |
| ajmitch | I know, it just scares me that it'd be so soon :) | 04:54 |
| Kamion | there's discussion that if we get the merge out of the way early then we won't be sitting on the merge treadmill and have no time for features we care about | 04:54 |
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| Kamion | which may turn out to save time | 04:55 |
| ajmitch | I'd love to have a later UVF for universe | 04:55 |
| ajmitch | we tend to only hear about 'foo is broken & out of date' quite late | 04:55 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 04:55 |
| ajmitch | we can afford to be more relaxed with universe freezes though | 04:56 |
| shenki | what's the hostname/port for the gobby channel of this discussion? | 04:56 |
| ajmitch | gobby.uds.ubuntu.com, port 9001 | 04:57 |
| jjesse | gobby.uds.ubuntu.com:90001 | 04:57 |
| jjesse | 9001 | 04:57 |
| shenki | thanks | 04:57 |
| Kamion | ajmitch: as usual I expect that universe UVF can be pushed out | 04:58 |
| Kamion | to FF or so | 04:58 |
| ajmitch | that would be good, thanks | 04:58 |
| Kamion | or heck beta if you like | 04:58 |
| === ajmitch can just make out your voice :) | ||
| Kamion | as far as we (round table) are concerned that's up to MOTU leaders | 04:59 |
| Hobbsee | +1, thinking of kde 3.5.4 | 04:59 |
| Hobbsee | no, wait, igonre that | 04:59 |
| Kamion | although I do think you should define *some* point where you stop | 04:59 |
| Hobbsee | Kamion: before release? :P | 04:59 |
| ajmitch | it worked fairly well for dapper, having freeze exceptions approved by a motu team | 04:59 |
| Kamion | ajmitch: yes | 05:00 |
| ajmitch | I'll ask dholbach what he thinks of it | 05:00 |
| imbrandon | universe freeze oct 17 ;) lol j/k | 05:00 |
| Kamion | Hobbsee: some distance before, yes ;-) | 05:00 |
| Hobbsee | hehe | 05:00 |
| fabbione | everything went silent | 05:00 |
| fabbione | oh well | 05:00 |
| ajmitch | I think for hoary we had an effective UVF of whenever the buildds stopped :) | 05:00 |
| imbrandon | fabbione, they said "thanks for listning in" ... click | 05:00 |
| Hobbsee | hehe | 05:01 |
| fabbione | can we sing now? | 05:01 |
| fabbione | LA LA LA LA | 05:01 |
| imbrandon | lol | 05:01 |
| Seveas | 05:01 | |
| Hobbsee | actually, that probably worked comparably to the last session, with sabdfl telling us what was happening | 05:01 |
| Hobbsee | fabbione: sure, over the mic :P | 05:01 |
| Hobbsee | go on Seveas, you said i had a scary voice, thereofre you must speak :P | 05:01 |
| imbrandon | yea Hobbsee we need a person at each one relaying messages | 05:02 |
| Seveas | Hobbsee, lol | 05:02 |
| fabbione | Hobbsee: why scary? | 05:02 |
| jsgotangco | player left | 05:02 |
| fabbione | it didn't sound that BAD... | 05:02 |
| Hobbsee | haha | 05:02 |
| Seveas | fabbione, but compine that with knowing she's chcaholinc and has a power addiction... | 05:03 |
| Hobbsee | sure sure. and you wonder why i dont talk much on there, and why i dont use my real nam much | 05:03 |
| Seveas | combine* | 05:03 |
| Hobbsee | haha dont you start, i have no ops in here to make you stop :P | 05:03 |
| fabbione | chcaholinc <- ???? | 05:03 |
| Hobbsee | mmm...chocolate... | 05:03 |
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| fabbione | i have the feeling i so much don't want to knwo | 05:03 |
| fabbione | know | 05:03 |
| Seveas | fabbione, chocaholic | 05:03 |
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| fabbione | Seveas: ahhh | 05:04 |
| Seveas | (my spelling sucks today, I don't know how I managed to write bugfree-ish code) | 05:04 |
| Hobbsee | haha | 05:04 |
| === Hobbsee makes a mental note to go bug hunting in Seveas's bot again. | ||
| Seveas | please do | 05:04 |
| imbrandon | @t | 05:04 |
| imbrandon | ;) | 05:04 |
| Seveas | that works only in channels that can handle offtopic | 05:05 |
| imbrandon | heh : This will be a hard, ruthless freeze. Unfinished features WILL be delayed until edgy+1 | 05:06 |
| imbrandon | ^^ just noticed | 05:06 |
| Hobbsee | hehe | 05:06 |
| Hobbsee | which particular freeze was this? | 05:06 |
| imbrandon | feature , sept 7th | 05:06 |
| Hobbsee | ah yeah | 05:07 |
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| jenda-lappy | It's been three weeks since the last CC meeting :( | 09:16 |
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| Seveas | jenda-lappy, and it'll be another week | 09:51 |
| Seveas | have you poked community-council@? | 09:51 |
| jenda-lappy | Seveas, really? | 09:51 |
| jenda-lappy | nope... | 09:52 |
| jenda-lappy | didn't think I should bother them. | 09:52 |
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| stgraber | @schedule Zurich | 10:50 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 10:50 |
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