[12:30] <raphink> @schedule Paris
[12:30] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu
[12:31] <Hawkwind> @schedule Houston
[12:32] <Hawkwind> @schedule chicago
[12:32] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 20 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 08:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 16:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 07:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 08:30: Xubuntu
[08:48] <GNAM> @schedule rome
[08:48] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu
[10:54] <jenda> @schedule Prague
[10:54] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Prague: 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu
[11:03] <Sp4rKy> hi
[11:03] <jenda> aloha, Sp4rKy 
[11:04] <Sp4rKy> please when does a date for new Members should be published ?
[11:09] <jenda> Sp4rKy: nobody knows...
[11:09] <Sp4rKy> jenda, k thx
[04:16] <jjesse> imbrandon and matthais klose both have nice microphones that i can hear over the internet
[04:17] <Hobbsee> mornfall's is quite good as well
[04:17] <fabbione> is anybody actually speaking around the table?
[04:17] <imbrandon> jjesse, i'm not in paris though ;(
[04:17] <jjesse> ah
[04:17] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: run quickly!
[04:17] <imbrandon> i think someone should atleaste put a mic in the middle
[04:17] <imbrandon> hehehe
[04:17] <jjesse> agreed
[04:17] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, hop on i'll piggy back you with me
[04:18] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:19] <imbrandon> it would be pointless to be in paris at the same table and talk totaly on irc ;)
[04:19] <shenki> pointless, but funny :)
[04:19] <Hobbsee> :P
[04:19] <fabbione> we can't hear ANYTHING
[04:19] <fabbione> it's just noise or almost
[04:20] <Hobbsee> fabbione: we can type :P
[04:20] <fabbione> Hobbsee: pointless if you can't hear
[04:20] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, but we need to hear to type anything worth saying
[04:20] <Hobbsee> oh, i was more meaning we can hear you, adn we can type
[04:20] <sfllaw> I guess the only thing that we can do is...
[04:20] <sfllaw> Use Gobby and sign in to gobby.uds.ubuntu.com:9001
[04:20] <sfllaw> There's a chat program there and you can see the spec being typed up.
[04:21] <imbrandon> well the last meeting sabdfl kinda repeated the major points over voip
[04:21] <jsgotangco> it is very faint even though i am just across the group
[04:21] <Seveas> sfllaw, not much going on at 9001
[04:21] <sfllaw> Seveas: That's because we're talking in real-life and interrupting each other.
[04:22] <sfllaw> But we'll be typing things up.
[04:22] <Seveas> ah, bug in gobby
[04:22] <Seveas> it connects me to 9007
[04:22] <Seveas> even though I change to 9001
[04:22] <fabbione> same here
[04:22] <fabbione> ok i am off this session
[04:22] <ajmitch> yes, it works if you change with the spinner, not with the text field
[04:22] <imbrandon> sfllaw, can you also speak the major things in VoIP
[04:23] <fabbione> is mdz there at the table?
[04:24] <doko> fabbione: yes
[04:24] <fabbione> doko: why isn't he on TeamSpeak?
[04:25] <doko> fabbione: if I understood it right, configuration problem
[04:26] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: they cant hear us, remember?
[04:26] <fabbione> doko: can you please ask him to relay to the meeting my suggestion of the +3 weeks?
[04:26] <imbrandon> yea but some of them can
[04:26] <Hobbsee> true
[04:26] <fabbione> doko: with this shit there is no way to partecipate
[04:26] <jjesse> whoever was last speaking came acrross nice an clean
[04:26] <imbrandon> jamesToup Can for one etc
[04:27] <Hobbsee> it's sounding pretty good - mic down +1 
[04:27] <fabbione> bah
[04:27] <fabbione> they are already half way in the meeting
[04:27] <jjesse> what was the gobby session?
[04:27] <fabbione> 9001
[04:27] <ajmitch> I can hear kamion fairly well when the mic is on
[04:27] <jjesse> hmm getting a protocol error mismatch
[04:27] <ajmitch> only because of the headphones, it's no good with speakers
[04:28] <mdz> fabbione: what?
[04:28] <imbrandon> [09:26]  <Hobbsee> imbrandon: they cant hear us, remember?
[04:28] <imbrandon> [09:26]  <fabbione> doko: can you please ask him to relay to the meeting my suggestion of the +3 weeks?
[04:28] <imbrandon> [09:26]  <imbrandon> yea but some of them can
[04:28] <fabbione> mdz: can you please relay my suggestion (like we did talk in london) to add +3 weeks?
[04:28] <fabbione> TeamSpeak doesn't work
[04:28] <fabbione> and we can't hear a thing here
[04:29] <imbrandon> cept each other
[04:29] <fabbione> so we also have no clue of where the conversation is at the moment
[04:29] <jjesse> just random talking, i think it works better when people actually talk into a mic and not a central mic
[04:29] <fabbione> doko: thanks dude
[04:30] <imbrandon> even if just one person relays the major points ( like sabdfl did for the last session )
[04:30] <jenda> @now
[04:30] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 19 2006, 14:30:49 - Next meeting: Technical Board  in 1 day
[04:31] <mdz> fabbione: that suggestion was vetoed by sabdfl months ago, sorry
[04:32] <fabbione> mdz: he said to re-proposite it again at the meeting
[04:32] <fabbione> re-propose
[04:32] <mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule has been saved with the current working stuff
[04:33] <mdz> fabbione: said to whom and when?
[04:33] <fabbione> mdz: to me in London when we were all out
[04:33] <fabbione> sfllaw: wasn't the page supposed to be edited in gobby?
[04:34] <jjesse> it is in gobby rightn ow
[04:36] <fabbione> mdz: i suggest to postpone Beta freeze one or two weeks later...
[04:36] <fabbione> mdz: given the nature of edgy i see no point in one and a half month of freeze
[04:38] <imbrandon> exactly
[04:38] <jjesse> hmm this team speak kinda sucks :(
[04:38] <imbrandon> with such a short release cycle why such a long freeze
[04:39] <imbrandon> jjesse, yea thee way they was doing it before was MUCH better
[04:39] <imbrandon> stleaste we had a relay then
[04:39] <jjesse> agreed
[04:39] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:39] <Kamion> it's worth putting it kinda close to the GNOME release, but yeah, maybe
[04:39] <jsgotangco> well its not popular in here either
[04:39] <Kamion> we've always done beta right after GNOME release
[04:39] <ajmitch> Kamion: is there a speculative UVF date?
[04:39] <jjesse> i was really interested in this discussion, not as interested in the last meeting
[04:39] <imbrandon> ajmitch, September 7th
[04:40] <Kamion> ajmitch: early discussions have been to just match it to FF
[04:40] <ajmitch> right
[04:40] <Kamion> this being a crack release
[04:40] <ajmitch> that sounds fair
[04:40] <fabbione> Kamion: is sab there around?
[04:40] <Kamion> ajmitch: but see the gobby, there's a "merge complete" which will get filled in
[04:40] <Kamion> fabbione: no
[04:40] <fabbione> bah
[04:40] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks
[04:41] <Kamion> I think he's embroiled in tabs
[04:41] <fabbione> yeah but he said that he was going to reevaluate the option to add 3 weeks to this release
[04:41] <fabbione> and if he is not around nobody is going to even try to talk to him about it
[04:41] <ajmitch> Kamion: I also care because of universe - we couldn't possibly get merges done in 2 weeks, but a late UVF suits us
[04:42] <Kamion> fabbione: we've been discussing it here
[04:42] <fabbione> Kamion: ok, but we can't hear a thing :)
[04:43] <Kamion> the prevailing opinion seems to be that we should just suck up the short release
[04:43] <fabbione> based on what rationale?
[04:43] <Kamion> (to relay jdub) partly as an external statement that we can do it (repairs time-based-release reputation from the dapper delay), and partly as an internal statement that we need to not delay releases too often
[04:43] <Kamion> which personally, I have to say I agree with
[04:44] <fabbione> with a +3 weeks we are still below the 6 months release
[04:44] <jjesse> i think it would be nice to get back on track and not delay again
[04:44] <fabbione> it's not a delay
[04:44] <Kamion> it is, with respect to breezy
[04:44] <fabbione> and it will still match the commit of the within 6 monhts
[04:44] <imbrandon> i agree with that but such a long uvf on edgy .......
[04:44] <fabbione> Kamion: right now we are at 4 monhts?
[04:44] <Kamion> we've said in public that we will release edgy in October
[04:44] <fabbione> 4 months + 3 week < 6 monhts
[04:44] <Kamion> if we slip from that, we're going to lose confidence
[04:45] <Kamion> 4.5 months, and dapper was 6 months + 6 weeks = 7.5 months
[04:45] <Kamion> the constraint is not 6 months from dapper, it's 12 months from breezy
[04:45] <imbrandon> fabbione, they are looking at it more as 1 year from breezy not 6 months from dapper
[04:45] <fabbione> i don't think this is even sane
[04:45] <Kamion> now it's your turn for rationale
[04:45] <fabbione> of course
[04:46] <fabbione> we committed to a 6 months release cycle
[04:46] <fabbione> we are 6 weeks delay
[04:46] <fabbione> split them in 2
[04:46] <fabbione> +3 for edgy
[04:46] <fabbione> and +3 edgy+1
[04:46] <fabbione> we go back in sync
[04:46] <fabbione> and we do 2 releases in less than 6 months
[04:46] <fabbione> and we don't die with one in 4.5
[04:46] <fabbione> we are still committing to support edgy for 18 months
[04:47] <Kamion> yeah, I don't think we'll die though
[04:47] <fabbione> if it is too much crack it will be very difficul
[04:47] <fabbione> and we will lose users and confidence for real
[04:47] <Kamion> the answer is just to pick not quite such an insane number of goals, and to accept more slippage on goals
[04:47] <Kamion> really fascist on feature freeze
[04:47] <Kamion> for dapper, there was stuff we HAD to do
[04:47] <Kamion> (sabdfl-mandated)
[04:47] <Kamion> that is not the case for edgy
[04:48] <imbrandon> that and edgy will be buggy by nature
[04:48] <imbrandon> already
[04:48] <imbrandon> weather 4 or 6 months
[04:48] <fabbione> yeah it's exactly the same sab that suggested to re-discuss the 3 weeks thingy.. anyway  i can hear a lot of people having fun there. 
[04:48] <fabbione> so probably not even worth to discuss it anylonger
[04:48] <Kamion> (from jdub again) when gnome 2.6 was delayed, they just sucked up the damage, and 2.8 went right back on schedule
[04:49] <fabbione> gnome != ubuntu
[04:49] <imbrandon> better to dammage one release than 3
[04:49] <jjesse> agreed imbrandon
[04:49] <fabbione> imbrandon: we are still committed to 18 months support for it
[04:49] <Kamion> sabdfl re-discuss> that's what he does when you pressure him about something he knows other people would be more involved with than he is - he tells you to discuss with them
[04:49] <imbrandon> fabbione, and we can do that , their will probbly just be more backports that way
[04:50] <imbrandon> its not LTS
[04:50] <fabbione> ok we are going no where and i am not there to grab the sab
[04:50] <imbrandon> its just 18 months
[04:50] <fabbione> imbrandon: 18 months are much more than you think.. specially because you don't need to support it
[04:51] <jsgotangco> that is like eternity for the security team
[04:51] <imbrandon> my point is if we short our self now and suck up the support for 18 months or do we short 3 releases and suck up the supoport 18x3 months
[04:51] <ajmitch> imbrandon: can you imagine supporting the current Xgl crack for 18 months?
[04:51] <imbrandon> ajmitch, backports
[04:52] <ajmitch> backports is not the answer to everything
[04:52] <imbrandon> witha  4.5 month release backports will be a must
[04:52] <ajmitch> you can't simply backport core parts of the distro
[04:52] <Riddell> imbrandon: why?  shorter release means less backports
[04:52] <fabbione> imbrandon: backports are not a solution.
[04:52] <imbrandon> not everything but what about when we're short on 2 to 3 releases and we have not just one 18 months of hell we have 18x3
[04:53] <fabbione> imbrandon: backports are overhead of work to maint an old distro in a sane way taking away resources from the one you are actually developing
[04:53] <ajmitch> Kamion: why did UVF jump back to mid-july on the current wiki page?
[04:53] <Kamion> not sure
[04:53] <fabbione> ajmitch: because they are editing in 2 different places? :)
[04:54] <Riddell> ajmitch: no advantage having it later, you can still bring in new upstreams as needed just not all of them
[04:54] <ajmitch> heh
[04:54] <Kamion> it's not remotely final
[04:54] <ajmitch> I know, it just scares me that it'd be so soon :)
[04:54] <Kamion> there's discussion that if we get the merge out of the way early then we won't be sitting on the merge treadmill and have no time for features we care about
[04:55] <Kamion> which may turn out to save time
[04:55] <ajmitch> I'd love to have a later UVF for universe
[04:55] <ajmitch> we tend to only hear about 'foo is broken & out of date' quite late
[04:55] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:56] <ajmitch> we can afford to be more relaxed with universe freezes though
[04:56] <shenki> what's the hostname/port for the gobby channel of this discussion?
[04:57] <ajmitch> gobby.uds.ubuntu.com, port 9001
[04:57] <jjesse> gobby.uds.ubuntu.com:90001
[04:57] <jjesse> 9001
[04:57] <shenki> thanks
[04:58] <Kamion> ajmitch: as usual I expect that universe UVF can be pushed out
[04:58] <Kamion> to FF or so
[04:58] <ajmitch> that would be good, thanks
[04:58] <Kamion> or heck beta if you like
[04:59] <Kamion> as far as we (round table) are concerned that's up to MOTU leaders
[04:59] <Hobbsee> +1, thinking of kde 3.5.4
[04:59] <Hobbsee> no, wait, igonre that
[04:59] <Kamion> although I do think you should define *some* point where you stop
[04:59] <Hobbsee> Kamion: before release?  :P
[04:59] <ajmitch> it worked fairly well for dapper, having freeze exceptions approved by a motu team
[05:00] <Kamion> ajmitch: yes
[05:00] <ajmitch> I'll ask dholbach what he thinks of it
[05:00] <imbrandon> universe freeze oct 17 ;) lol j/k
[05:00] <Kamion> Hobbsee: some distance before, yes ;-)
[05:00] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:00] <fabbione> everything went silent
[05:00] <fabbione> oh well
[05:00] <ajmitch> I think for hoary we had an effective UVF of whenever the buildds stopped :)
[05:00] <imbrandon> fabbione, they said "thanks for listning in" ... click
[05:01] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:01] <fabbione> can we sing now?
[05:01] <fabbione> LA LA LA LA
[05:01] <imbrandon> lol
[05:01] <Seveas> 
[05:01] <Hobbsee> actually, that probably worked comparably to the last session, with sabdfl telling us what was happening
[05:01] <Hobbsee> fabbione: sure, over the mic :P
[05:01] <Hobbsee> go on Seveas, you said i had a scary voice, thereofre you must speak :P
[05:02] <imbrandon> yea Hobbsee we need a person at each one relaying messages
[05:02] <Seveas> Hobbsee, lol
[05:02] <fabbione> Hobbsee: why scary?
[05:02] <jsgotangco> player left
[05:02] <fabbione> it didn't sound that BAD...
[05:02] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:03] <Seveas> fabbione, but compine that with knowing she's chcaholinc and has a power addiction...
[05:03] <Hobbsee> sure sure.  and you wonder why i dont talk much on there, and why i dont use my real nam much
[05:03] <Seveas> combine*
[05:03] <Hobbsee> haha dont you start, i have no ops in here to make you stop :P
[05:03] <fabbione> chcaholinc <- ????
[05:03] <Hobbsee> mmm...chocolate...
[05:03] <fabbione> i have the feeling i so much don't want to knwo
[05:03] <fabbione> know
[05:03] <Seveas> fabbione, chocaholic
[05:04] <fabbione> Seveas: ahhh
[05:04] <Seveas> (my spelling sucks today, I don't know how I managed to write bugfree-ish code)
[05:04] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:04] <Seveas> please do
[05:04] <imbrandon> @t
[05:04] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:05] <Seveas> that works only in channels that can handle offtopic 
[05:06] <imbrandon> heh : This will be a hard, ruthless freeze. Unfinished features WILL be delayed until edgy+1 
[05:06] <imbrandon> ^^ just noticed
[05:06] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:06] <Hobbsee> which particular freeze was this?
[05:06] <imbrandon> feature , sept 7th
[05:07] <Hobbsee> ah yeah
[09:16] <jenda-lappy> It's been three weeks since the last CC meeting :(
[09:51] <Seveas> jenda-lappy, and it'll be another week
[09:51] <Seveas> have you poked community-council@?
[09:51] <jenda-lappy> Seveas, really?
[09:52] <jenda-lappy> nope...
[09:52] <jenda-lappy> didn't think I should bother them.
[10:50] <stgraber> @schedule Zurich
[10:50] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu