[12:20] <sbalneav> neuralis: ping
[12:20] <neuralis> sbalneav: hey
[12:21] <sbalneav> Hey!  Quick question.  I'm not sure how to create a spec in launchpad
[12:21] <sbalneav> Any ->'s?
[12:21] <sbalneav> Or do I not have privs to do so?
[12:21] <neuralis> sbalneav: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-June/000145.html
[12:22] <sbalneav> Ah, thx.  
[12:24] <neuralis> sure
[12:35] <rodarvus> sbalneav, I'll be online (and at the meeting room) for another 10 minutes, please ping me if you need anything
[01:20] <zul> heylo
[03:53] <Hobbsee> morning all
[03:53] <zul> evening
[04:36] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: ping
[04:37] <RadiantFire> Hobbsee: pong
[04:37] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: i just tried building ndiswrapper again - it's building both files...
[04:37] <RadiantFire> it is?
[04:37] <Hobbsee> yeah
[04:37] <RadiantFire> i don't know anything about debian packaging so..
[04:37] <Hobbsee> i'll check by installing it though (argh)
[04:37] <Hobbsee> how did you build it?
[04:37] <RadiantFire> I'll gladly be your guinea pig though
[04:37] <RadiantFire> I used module-assistant which failed
[04:37] <Hobbsee> yeah, it installed okay..
[04:38] <RadiantFire> to get it built I just unzipped and did make, make install inside of /usr/src/module/ndiswrapper
[04:38] <Hobbsee> bleh, no wonder it didnt work
[04:38] <RadiantFire> ?
[04:39] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: the way to do it is to get the source package (*.orig.tar.gz, *.dsc, *.diff.gz), dpkg-source -x *.dsc, and debuild
[04:39] <RadiantFire> it is?
[04:39] <imbrandon> heh
[04:39] <imbrandon> yup
[04:39] <RadiantFire> I thought you were supposed to use module-assistant
[04:39] <RadiantFire> gah...
[04:39] <Hobbsee> nope, it should "just work"
[04:40] <RadiantFire> wait... the sudo dpkg -i put ndiswrapper-source.tar.bz2 in my /usr/src
[04:40] <Hobbsee> it did?
[04:40] <RadiantFire> yes
[04:40] <Hobbsee> it doesnt here.....interesting.
[04:40] <RadiantFire> and in order to install, I unpacked that directory and compiled
[04:40] <RadiantFire> I assumed module-assistant took care of everything
[04:41] <Hobbsee> hey yeah, so it did.
[04:41] <RadiantFire> when module-assistant failed, I"m left with a deb lik linux-ndiswrapper-module-2.6.15-25.deb
[04:41] <RadiantFire> in /usr/src
[04:41] <Hobbsee> technically you shouldnt even need to do that - it should just build both packages when you run debuild from the source directory
[04:41] <RadiantFire> the source directory being where ndiswrapper-source unpacks to?
[04:42] <Hobbsee> i think the /usr/src stuff gets autohandled, let me check..
[04:42] <Hobbsee> no, the source directory being where you downloaded the source off revu to, and ran dpkg-source -x *.dsc <-- the directory created from there
[04:42] <RadiantFire> huh?
[04:43] <RadiantFire> oh crap, I never downloaded the source of revu, I just downloaded ndiswrapper-source*.deb that you gave me
[04:43] <Hobbsee> hmmm...interesting, i thought i sent you the source
[04:43] <RadiantFire> all I have is ndiswrapper-source.deb and ndiswrapper-utils.deb
[04:43] <RadiantFire> p.s. the source file is 1.17-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[04:44] <Hobbsee> yeah
[04:44] <Hobbsee> if i gave you the deb files, then you *should* just be able to install it by sudo apt-get build-dep ndiswrapper-utils && sudo dpkg -i *.deb
[04:44] <RadiantFire> oh
[04:45] <Hobbsee> if not, and you have to do something weird and random, then something's wrong.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> that .tar.bz2 file's copied into /usr/src via the rules file - so that's okay - it's not randomly copying
[04:46] <RadiantFire> Hobbsee: when module-assitant fails, I'm left with this file that is not install
[04:46] <RadiantFire> e
[04:46] <RadiantFire> ndiswrapper-modules-2.6.15-23-386_1.17-0ubuntu1+2.6.15-23.39_i386.deb
[04:46] <RadiantFire> cuz this is using a 386 kernel
[04:46] <RadiantFire> haven't gotten around to updating this computer to 686
[04:46] <RadiantFire> because it never installed a new module
[04:47] <Hobbsee> i wasnt aware that you had to...
[04:47] <RadiantFire> the problem I was having was with the kernel module on the other computer
[04:47] <RadiantFire> the ndiswrapper module won't load if it isn't compiled for the running kernel exactly
[04:47] <RadiantFire> so I had to compile it mysle
[04:47] <RadiantFire> f
[04:48] <Hobbsee> actually, it installs a new module as ndiswrapper-source installs, according to this
[04:48] <RadiantFire> Hobbsee: thast wier
[04:48] <imbrandon> yea but installing isnt loading
[04:49] <RadiantFire> Hobbsee: seriously the problem is your ndiswrapper-source builds a module that says it depends on utils 1.17.1
[04:49] <Hobbsee> pity my wifi card doesnt actually work with the newest version - it'll flash, but wont get a connection
[04:49] <RadiantFire> when it should really depend on 1.17.-0ubuntu1
[04:49] <Hobbsee> it should really depend on 1.17*, but i'll check that
[04:52] <Hobbsee> oh wait, debian's updated it anyway, they'll fix it via a sync
[04:53] <RadiantFire> thats exciting...
[04:57] <RadiantFire> Hobbsee: I'm curious, how much does ubuntu actually rely on debian
[04:58] <RadiantFire> cuz I got the impression its just taking the tools and rerolling everything
[04:58] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: a lot
[04:58] <RadiantFire> so there is more help required than Ithought
[05:03] <RadiantFire> so is there something new for me to test?
[05:05] <RadiantFire> Hobbsee: ping
[05:05] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: pong
[05:06] <Hobbsee> darn multiple pbuilders, they confuse me.
[05:06] <Hobbsee> not at the moment, that i know of
[05:06] <RadiantFire> Hobbsee: you said you are in University right?
[05:07] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: yes
[05:08] <RadiantFire> undergrad or grad?
[05:08] <Hobbsee> undergrad
[05:08] <RadiantFire> where at?
[05:08] <Hobbsee> a uni in sydney - macquarie uni
[05:12] <RadiantFire> majoring in compsci or something else
[05:12] <desrt> 23:05 <RadiantFire> Hobbsee: ping
[05:12] <desrt> 23:05 <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: pong
[05:12] <RadiantFire> good call :-)
[05:12] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: no, doing a bachelor of technology in optoelectronics, actually
[05:12] <imbrandon> [21:57]  <RadiantFire> Hobbsee: I'm curious, how much does ubuntu actually rely on debian <-- RadiantFire ubuntu takes a snapshot of debian unstable every 6 months and basis our release on that but as far as tool and such we are totaly indep, with things like our own pactches and bzr branches for 90% of the packages, but at the same time we send patches back to upstream if they are wanted
[05:13] <RadiantFire> ok, so I wasn't completely off base
[05:13] <desrt> that said -- ubuntu would be in a lot of trouble without debian
[05:13] <desrt> since an ubuntu system isn't very much fun without universe and most of universe comes from debian
[05:14] <HrdwrBoB> ubuntu wouldn't exist per se without debian
[06:44] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 mins for its regular code update. Downtime should be around 15 mins.
[08:37] <fabbione> morning
[08:37] <Hobbsee> morning fabbione!
[08:37] <fabbione> hey Hobbsee 
[08:37] <fabbione> you are up early...
[08:38] <Hobbsee> @time sydney
[08:38] <Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: June 20 2006, 16:38:18
[08:38] <Hobbsee> fabbione: i just had lunch :P
[08:39] <Hobbsee> fabbione: where are you?  
[08:39] <neuralis> hmm. no schedule up yet for today?
[08:39] <fabbione> Hobbsee: oh you are on the other side of the world...
[08:39] <fabbione> Hobbsee: EU
[08:39] <fabbione> hey netstar 
[08:39] <Hobbsee> fabbione: ah, i figured that much - where in particular?
[08:39] <netstar> hi
[08:40] <fabbione> Hobbsee: copenhagen/denmark
[08:40] <Hobbsee> yes, i'm on this strange side, where it's winter, and where we all fall off the edge of the world occasionally
[08:40] <Hobbsee> fabbione: ooh, i'm jealous.  would love to be there one day.
[08:40] <fabbione> Hobbsee: i have been there :)
[08:40] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:40] <Hobbsee> but you survived and made it back!
[08:40] <ajmitch> morning fabbione 
[08:40] <fabbione> Hobbsee: yeah :)
[08:41] <fabbione> hey aj
[08:41] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
[08:41] <ajmitch> hello again Hobbsee 
[08:42] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: does it feel like bungee jumping?
[08:43] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: quite possibly
[08:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ahhah
[08:43] <Hobbsee> morning Keybuk 
[08:43] <neuralis> Mithrandir: only if you don't reach escape velocity ;)
[08:43] <Hobbsee> haha
[08:44] <Mithrandir> neuralis: true.
[08:45] <Hobbsee> uh oh...that didnt sound good...
[08:45] <fabbione> Hobbsee: ?
[08:46] <\sh> hmmm...is this intltool-debian problem solved? can someone create a nice chroot?
[08:48] <Hobbsee> back :)
[08:54] <TheMuso> Morning all.
[08:54] <Keybuk> \sh: it appears to have built
[08:55] <\sh> Keybuk: cool...:) thx :)
[08:57] <fabbione> hey marilize 
[08:58] <marilize> hellooo fabbione :)
[09:02] <sivang> morning
[09:02] <\sh> hey sivang
[09:02] <sivang> hey \sh 
[09:02] <Hobbsee> evening sivang 
[09:02] <sivang> hi Hobbsee !
[09:03] <sivang> hey marilize 
[09:03] <\sh> ln: creating hard link `/home/shermann/pbuilder/aptcache/edgy//adduser_3.80ubuntu2_all.deb' to `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//17822/var/cache/apt/archives/adduser_3.80ubuntu2_all.deb': Invalid cross-device link
[09:03] <\sh> wth...
[09:03] <ajmitch> \sh: yes, you broke the config :P
[09:03] <marilize> sivang morning :)
[09:03] <Hobbsee> for the broken config
[09:04] <ajmitch> APTCACHEHARDLINK="yes"
[09:04] <ajmitch> change it to no
[09:04] <ajmitch> sigh, I always get picked on here
[09:04] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:05] <siretart> hi
[09:05] <ajmitch> hi siretart 
[09:05] <siretart> err, are you serious with UVF at July 13th? I think it is way too early
[09:06] <siretart> hey ajmitch 
[09:06] <Hobbsee> hi siretart 
[09:20] <BenC> how do I test udev for why it isn't loading a NIC module with 2.6.17?
[09:20] <BenC> isn't there someway to tickle the "plug" of the device and watch udev for what it does with it?
[09:22] <fabbione> BenC: hit Keybuk with a huge bat? :)
[09:22] <fabbione> he is there.. you can.. DO IT! :P
[09:23] <BenC> actually swinging a bat around at a conference might be bad given some recent other conferences ;)
[09:23] <ajmitch> heh
[09:23] <Keybuk> BenC: sudo udevmonitor -e
[09:23] <Keybuk> echo add > /sys/bus/pci/devices/???/uevent
[09:23] <ajmitch> as long as you don't have a crown..
[09:23] <mdke> jdub: is my blog still getting a 404 from planet?
[09:24] <BenC> lol
[09:24] <Keybuk> BenC: usually that's a missing alias in the modinfo
[09:24] <BenC> loading the module by hand works, so the table entry should be there
[09:25] <Keybuk> nopaste the modinfo for me
[09:25] <Keybuk> actually, why don't I come and lean over your shoulder
[09:25] <Keybuk> that would be MUCH more efficient
[09:25] <Hobbsee> haha
[09:29] <BenC> ok, bat is for me this time
[09:29] <BenC> Keybuk lucked out
[09:31] <jsgotangco> BenC: you doing anything right now? we need a kernel person for speakup inclusion
[09:33] <TheMuso> jsgotangco: Thats not until 11 now.
[09:33] <TheMuso> Refresh the schedule.
[09:33] <jsgotangco> TheMuso: there's a 9-10 sched
[09:33] <TheMuso> Twas removed.
[09:33] <jsgotangco> ooopps yeah sorry
[09:33] <TheMuso> or pushed back. I can't exactly remember.
[09:35] <BenC> jsgotangco: which table?
[09:35] <TheMuso> BenC: It will be whatever table henrik is on, as he is subscribed to the spec and he can't exactly move around as easily as the rest of us.
[09:36] <BenC> is discussion going on right now?
[09:36] <jsgotangco> no till 11
[09:36] <jsgotangco> err i mean we're starting at 11 the sched got moved
[09:37] <msw> BenC: not yet
[09:37] <BenC> ok, just noticed that the schedule needed to be reloaded
[09:37] <BenC> I had the old one showing it at 9am :)
[09:38] <looksaus> is there a real time, non-intrusive way I can contact Marilize Coetzee, the Ubuntu distribution manager?
[09:38] <looksaus> irc, for example?
[09:38] <sivang> marilize: ^^
[09:39] <looksaus> sivang, thx
[09:39] <TheMuso> c
[09:39] <TheMuso> damn ssh
[09:39] <marilize> looksaus: hi, you want to speak to me?
[09:43] <TheMuso> Morning LaserJock.
[09:43] <LaserJock> hi TheMuso 
[09:45] <jdub> LET'S GO TO THE AIRPORT!
[09:45] <LaserJock> wahooo!
[09:45] <Hobbsee> er...okay then
[09:45] <sivang> jdub: what will we be doing there? :-)
[09:45] <LaserJock> jdub: OK, OK
[09:45] <Hobbsee> hi jdub! would have thought you'd recognise my accent, even if no one elses :P
[09:45] <sivang> jdub: I can watch planes takeoff and land here as well
[09:45] <Hobbsee> sivang: drinking beer, of course, what else?
[09:46] <sivang> hmm
[09:47] <rodarvus> jdub, clever idea ;)
[09:48] <jsgotangco> we can try practising for our departure later
[09:48] <TheMuso> hehe
[09:48] <LaserJock> jdub: maybe we shouldn't let mako talk to the driver next time?
[09:48] <TheMuso> When do you fly out sivang?
[09:48] <jsgotangco> haha
[09:49] <TheMuso> sorry sjoerd.
[09:49] <TheMuso> damn
[09:49] <TheMuso> I meant jsgotangco 
[09:49] <jsgotangco> TheMuso: saturday
[09:49] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[09:50] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: how he could mistake the distinctive sydney accent is beyond me :)
[09:50] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: haha yeah - it's only where he lives, for goodness sake :P
[09:51] <jdub> LaserJock: "OK!"
[09:51] <Hobbsee> actually, it may well be a combined sydney/adelaide accent
[09:51] <ajmitch> scary
[09:51] <jdub> Hobbsee: you're not based in sydney though, right?
[09:51] <Hobbsee> jdub: i'm in sydney, yeah
[09:51] <jdub> !!!
[09:51] <jdub> you are in so much trouble
[09:51] <Hobbsee> haha!!!!
[09:51] <Hobbsee> why so?
[09:51] <jdub> have you been to slug?
[09:51] <TheMuso> For not coming to SLUG.
[09:52] <Hobbsee> jdub: nope.
[09:52] <Hobbsee> where is it?
[09:52] <TheMuso> UTS
[09:52] <jdub> UTS, last friday of the month
[09:52] <Hobbsee> which campus?
[09:52] <jdub> central
[09:52] <TheMuso> Broadway
[09:52] <Hobbsee> kurringai or broadway
[09:52] <TheMuso> Check the slug website for details.
[09:52] <Hobbsee> ahh...
[09:52] <ajmitch> what a shame, I'll be in canberra on the last friday in june
[09:52] <jdub> Hobbsee: pia has a women's dinner beforehand too, started last month with about 15 - you should go this month
[09:52] <jdub> where abouts are you?
[09:53] <Hobbsee> around pennant hill
[09:53] <Hobbsee> s
[09:53] <jdub> ha ha
[09:53] <jdub> "sydney"
[09:53] <Hobbsee> well...
[09:53] <Hobbsee> most people dont know where anything closer than that is :P
[09:53] <Hobbsee> hey JaneW 
[09:53] <jdub> (i live in surry hills, so i'm just being an arse)
[09:53] <Hobbsee> :P
[09:53] <ajmitch> jdub: returning to sydney after UDS?
[09:54] <jdub> guadec
[09:54] <jdub> then home
[09:54] <ajmitch> right
[09:54] <jdub> Hobbsee: lca is going to be in sydney in january too
[09:54] <ctd> Hobbsee: some do :)
[09:54] <Hobbsee> jdub: yes, so i hear :)
[09:54] <ajmitch> I'll be in sydney in the 1st week of july or so
[09:54] <Hobbsee> anyway, cant do last friday this month - we're doing a recording
[09:54] <jdub> hrm, reminds me, i have some postcards to hand out
[09:55] <Hobbsee> ctd: yes, some
[09:55] <Keybuk> jdub: can you hand out some air tickets too?
[09:55] <Hobbsee> haha
[09:55] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Excuses excuses.
[09:55] <jdub> Keybuk: yeah dude, i will procure them from my soft fleshy behind
[09:55] <TheMuso> ahaha
[09:55] <Keybuk> jdub: thanks
[09:55] <Keybuk> "Thankyou for flying Sladen Air"
[09:55] <jdub> haha
[09:56] <Keybuk> "In a short moment, the crew will be coming through the cabin with fresh straw to sit on"
[09:56] <jdub> Hobbsee: slug.org.au -> mailing lists
[09:56] <Keybuk> jdub: annoyingly LCA is at almost exactly the same week as the most expensive air fares
[09:57] <jdub> Keybuk: lucky - you don't have to fly that week, you just have to be there!
[09:57] <TheMuso> I think it is expensive to fly to/from Australia no matter what time of year.
[09:57] <Keybuk> jdub: that involves flying there
[09:57] <Keybuk> thus expense
[09:57] <jdub> TheMuso: only to; it is cheap to fly out
[09:57] <ajmitch> TheMuso: not too bad from NZ at times
[09:57] <jdub> because we are worldly
[09:58] <Keybuk> strange
[09:58] <Keybuk> once it was easy to get passage there
[09:58] <Keybuk> just not back
[09:58] <jsgotangco> jdub radio heh
[09:58] <sladen> jdub: can you have LCA not in January, it's summertime in Oz... and all the northern want to go there on "holiday"
[09:58] <jdub> Keybuk: let's steal some bread!
[09:59] <Keybuk> jdub: we're in the wrong country
[09:59] <jdub> sladen: that's the whole point!
[09:59] <Keybuk> we'd get sent to Northern Africa
[10:00] <msikma> Hey guys
[10:00] <zyga> hey :)
[10:01] <msikma> Is there anyone who can give me a little hand in making a new Launchpad spec? I'm member of the Ubuntu Artwork Launchpad team, but I can't seem to make any new ones.
[10:01] <Hobbsee> hi msikma 
[10:01] <msikma> Hello
[10:01] <msikma> How's Paris?
[10:02] <thom> keybuk joins the french foreign legion!
[10:02] <zyga> msikma: what's the problem? what happens when you try to create a spec?
[10:02] <msikma> The problem is I don't know which link to click. :)
[10:03] <msikma> I can't seem to see any button that says "magically create new spec"
[10:03] <zyga> msikma: first off, create the spec on the wiki
[10:03] <zyga> you need that *before* you create it on lp
[10:03] <zyga> msikma: just a sec
[10:03] <jdub> msikma: french.
[10:04] <msikma> I've got a link to a mailing list post which will suffice as "read more" link
[10:04] <Keybuk> "airmiss" is what I heard
[10:04] <lifeless> hermes ?
[10:04] <jdub> msikma: has to be a wiki page, otherwise we can't edit the spec
[10:04] <msikma> Hermes, isn't that a greek god?
[10:04] <jdub> it is also a pair of underpants
[10:05] <msikma> Seems that more of the Ubuntu Art specs are just mailing list links, though. Should I put it in the Wiki first?
[10:05] <jdub> yeah, much better to
[10:05] <lifeless> it is hermes
[10:05] <msikma> I'll be right back  (at work, gotta do something...)
[10:05] <lifeless> http://ws314.juntadeandalucia.es/plugins/scmsvn/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/Changelog?root=guadalinex2005
[10:05] <Hobbsee> msikma: isnt there already a spec for that?  oh, never mind me.
[10:06] <jsgotangco> that visual bluetooth notification thing is nice though
[10:06] <fabbione> dholbach: hey dude
[10:06] <lifeless> jsgotangco: thats hermes!
[10:06] <msw> jsgotangco: gotta move fast to use it though. ;-)
[10:06] <fabbione> dholbach: Settings -> Sound Settings -> "select push to talk"
[10:06] <dholbach> fabbione: hey man
[10:06] <fabbione> dholbach: and select a key you will use to talk
[10:06] <dholbach> fabbione: I couldn't shout, because I'm in a talk about guadalinex :)
[10:07] <jdub> "Bluetooth support enabled. CATCH ME IF YOU CAN!"
[10:07] <dholbach> fabbione: ah ok - I'll try that
[10:07] <fabbione> dholbach: something like l-win will do
[10:07] <fabbione> dholbach: please thanks
[10:07] <msw> jdub: hah
[10:07] <jsgotangco> hermes heheh isn't that the messenger of the gods
[10:07] <dholbach> :-)
[10:07] <LaserJock> jdub: musically notification bubbles?
[10:07] <LaserJock> *musical
[10:08] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Thats a cool idea re musical bubbles
[10:09] <ChipX86> I so don't want to implement that
[10:10] <dholbach> brb
[10:11] <lifeless> jsi think that is the point :)
[10:11] <lifeless> meh
[10:12] <zyga> is mark in france yet?
[10:12] <highvoltage> zyga: yep
[10:12] <Hobbsee> zyga: he was speaking there last night
[10:13] <zyga> can someone tell him Polish ubuntu community sends regards? :)
[10:23] <pitti> doko, infinity: are you fine with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GccSsp ?
[10:24] <msikma> zyga: I'm back... could you still help me with it? :)
[10:25] <zyga> msikma: I checked launchpad and.. I cannot find it either :D
[10:25] <zyga> ask carlos on #launchpad
[10:26] <msikma> Actually, I think that I can do it without first going to the Ubuntu-art team
[10:28] <msikma> There we go.
[10:32] <pitti> G0SUB: ping
[10:33] <sivang> Kinnison: I've worked out the design sectoin, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PurgeOldKernels
[10:34] <sivang> Kinnison: now working to have some direction in the implementation part
[10:39] <highvoltage> hmmm... i can't unmute myself in teamspeak
[10:40] <infinity> pitti: Looks fine to me, but doko may want to talk to you about it.  I spoke with him this morning.
[10:40] <pitti> infinity: we already spoke, too
[10:41] <infinity> Ahh, good.
[10:41] <ajmitch> pitti: so you'll turn it on for edgy, not edgy+1?
[10:41] <infinity> Tomorrow would be good.
[10:41] <infinity> Or even today.
[10:41] <pitti> ajmitch: 'edgy is broken by design' :)
[10:41] <ajmitch> nice :)
[10:41] <infinity> Since we have 12000 pending builds still.
[10:41] <ajmitch> right, I thought the buildds had already chewed through a few by now
[10:42] <pitti> infinity: depends on doko, AFAIR he wanted to do another gcc upload by tomorrow anyway
[10:42] <ajmitch> btw, good morning pitti, infinity  
[10:42] <pitti> ajmitch: so what, most of the main packages will be rebuilt at some point anyway
[10:42] <pitti> ajmitch: hello :)
[10:42] <doko> infinity, pitti: I do hesitate to change the defaults in gcc itself. Just checked the FC package, and they do not change it in this way. looking at gentoo now (FC uses some global flags to build packages)
[10:42] <pitti> ajmitch: and for some crucial ones we can still do no-change uploads if necessary
[10:42] <pitti> doko: so, gcc-defaults?
[10:42] <ajmitch> yes, but you'd need to check them to ensure that they got rebuilt after a certain date
[10:42] <infinity> doko: Wimp.
[10:43] <pitti> doko: global flags sounds like the equivalent of gcc-defaults
[10:43] <infinity> ajmitch: It's no harm done to NOT have some stuff rebuilt.  It doesn't put us in a position any worse than now.
[10:43] <ajmitch> those that matter will get touched anyway
[10:43] <doko> pitti: gcc-defaults is more evil, remember BenC's sparc wrapper ;-)
[10:44] <infinity> Yeah, I'd rather avoid wrappers.
[10:44] <infinity> We just killed the last one we were using.
[10:44] <infinity> (And good riddance to it)
[10:44] <infinity> I see no real argument for not enabling it in GCC itself.
[10:44] <infinity> Yes, stuff will break.  But we all now how to fix it trivially (-fno-stack-protection), so who cares?
[10:45] <infinity> I suppose there could be an argument made for people building 3rd party sources and not having a clue why they break...
[10:46] <ajmitch> they could run into that with us using gcc-4.1 anyway
[10:46] <infinity> I dunno.  I expect nothing to work right on edgy anyway.
[10:46] <ajmitch> given the amount of broken code out there
[10:48] <ghee22> hello, i'm looking for help regarding reading & writing files.  is anyone available?
[10:49] <hunger> ghee22: I am sorry, but this is not a help channel, please use #ubuntu for that.
[10:50] <ghee22> hunger: oh, i'm sorry for not being more clear, i meant development wise
[10:51] <ghee22> hunger:  i'm writing a project for SoC and I need to read & write files for the project.  I'd like to use something that is cross-platform for Kubuntu & Ubuntu.  can you help?
[10:52] <infinity> ghee22: This is why you have an SoC mentor, no?
[10:52] <ghee22> infinity: yes, that is one reason i have a mentor.  I like to "shop around".
[10:53] <Keybuk> ghee22: curiously, "read" and "write" are the syscalls you need
[10:55] <hunger> ghee22: I'd recommend getting a book on unix programming then.
[10:55] <zyga> ghee22: read and write is quite portable ;] 
[10:56] <hunger> ghee22: You will need it;-)
[10:56] <ghee22> keybuk:  thanks... i think i'll come back here after reading a bit more.  
[10:56] <zyga> ghee22: info libc
[10:56] <ghee22> hope you guys enjoyed a laugh at my expense
[10:56] <zyga> after installing libc-doc package
[10:56] <ghee22> zyga: got it. that's directly helpful.
[10:59] <hunger> ghee22: Why should we laugh?
[10:59] <hunger> ghee22: I started with similar please for help:-)
[11:02] <Chipzz> hunger: plees ;)
[11:03] <Chipzz> nice play of words though ;)
[11:14] <TheMuso> http://www.themuso.id.au/speakup-20060501.tar.bz2
[11:16] <TheMuso> http://www.themuso.id.au/speakup-20060501.tar.bz2
[11:42] <TheMuso> http://www.themuso.id.au/speakup-20060618.tar.bz2
[11:43] <BenC_> got it, thanks
[11:46] <BenC> which spec would appreciate my presence more, gcc-ssp or boot-message-logging?
[11:52] <mdke> Znarl: you haven't got rid of me yet
[12:14] <\sh> guys, is there a plan to change the time of the TB meeting this evening?
[12:15] <tseng> \sh: no
[12:15] <tseng> oh, i am thinking of distro team perhaps was pushed back until after paris
[12:15] <\sh> so still at 20UTC...
[12:17] <tseng> \sh: dunno, mdz only mentioned postponing dev team meeting
[12:34] <fl4b> I though of something that doesnt appear to have been looked into before- spyware. Although its not a prob yet, there have been proof of concept tests that show it is not too hard to create. Rather than waiting for Ubuntu (or any distro) to become popular for average users, and then spyware makers developing crap for linux and being a few steps ahead of anti-spyware developers, why not 'pre-empt' this and do some work into what spyware people may do, and 
[12:34] <fl4b> post and 1/2
[12:37] <imbrandon> fl4b, sounds like it might be an idea, have you written a spec ?
[12:39] <fl4b> spec?
[12:39] <fl4b> im newbish
[12:40] <imbrandon> ubuntu works with specifications , one sec let me get you the links
[12:40] <slomo> BenC: ping? do you know if someone is working on updating libraw1394 in debian? otherwise i would update it for edgy in ubuntu as i already planned for dapper ;)
[12:41] <BenC> slomo: I know I'm not, not sure if anyone else is
[12:41] <slomo> BenC: ok, from looking at the RFA bug it doesn't look like it... i guess i'll just get it updated for edgy then if that's ok for you
[12:42] <BenC> sure thing
[12:45] <slomo> ok thanks
[02:21] <highvoltage> dodgy internet--
[02:23] <Keybuk> I blame elmo
[02:25] <StevenK> Keybuk: For everything ... ?
[02:26] <Keybuk> no, not for everything
[02:30] <Hobbsee> hi all
[02:30] <Hobbsee> hiya StevenK 
[02:30] <Amaranth> hey
[02:31] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Your fathers machine is feeling better?
[02:31] <Hobbsee> StevenK: seems to be, until it breaks again
[02:35] <Hobbsee> hehe - is that possible?
[02:36] <StevenK> I've used some webpages that don't suck.
[02:36] <zul> what happened to all of the voip seesions?
[02:38] <sladen> zul: proprietary binary that fills up your hard disk when you suspend
[02:38] <sladen> zul: I think the functionality needs folding into gobby to make it 'on by default'
[02:39] <zul> so no one is using it?
[02:39] <Keybuk> zul: the network keeps going down here
[02:39] <zul> ah ok
[02:40] <Hobbsee> pity
[02:41] <jono> hey
[02:43] <highvoltage> hey jono and sbalneav 
[02:43] <jono> hey highvoltage 
[02:44] <mjg59> Why does nm keep saying "The NetworkManager applet could not find some required resources. It cannot continue"?
[02:44] <Mithrandir> mjg59: because it's silly.  I think the problem goes away if you reboot.
[02:44] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Nope
[02:45] <mjg59> Unless it needs me to do a clean reboot
[02:49] <mjg59> Oh. Because I need to delete all the icon caches.
[02:49] <mjg59> Didn't we fix that?
[02:51] <Mithrandir> mjg59: uh.  Go nm-applet
[02:52] <mjg59> Hardly its fault
[02:52] <mjg59> It asks gtk for icons, gtk didn't give it any
[02:52] <mjg59> Possibly a package bug
[02:57] <Mithrandir> it should give out a better error message, though
[04:02] <jsgotangco> Laser_away: http://enterprise.kde.org/articles/kiosk-lp.php
[04:07] <jono> wow, havent seen enterprise.kde.org for a while :)
[04:24] <\sh> fabbione: ping
[04:24] <\sh> fabbione: vlan configuration ubuntu-server...
[04:24] <fabbione> pong?
[04:24] <\sh> fabbione: installed by default for /etc/network/interfaces support?
[04:25] <fabbione> -EPARSE
[04:25] <\sh> fabbione: I need to setup vlan on an ubuntu-server...for debian I need those vlan tools...
[04:25] <fabbione> yeah and you need the same on ubuntu
[04:29] <\sh> fabbione: whishlist bug: please include vlan tools by default ;)
[04:30] <fabbione> \sh: did you open it in malone?
[04:30] <fabbione> \sh: did you assign it to infinity ?
[04:30] <\sh> fabbione: I'll do :)
[04:33] <bddebian> Heya folks
[04:34] <\sh> fabbione: which package is the best to file this bug?
[04:35] <bddebian> Heya \sh
[04:35] <\sh> hey bddebian
[04:36] <\sh> against vlan obviously
[04:36] <fabbione> \sh: good question.. it's the seeds
[04:36] <fabbione> no. it's a matter of seeds
[04:36] <fabbione> are the tools in main actually?
[04:39] <\sh> fabbione: yes
[04:39] <fabbione> \sh: just assign it to infinity 
[04:40] <\sh> fabbione: I used ubuntu-server ;)
[04:40] <fabbione> ok
[04:40] <\sh> and I can't tell launchpad anymore, that this is a wishlist bug..oh joy
[04:43] <sladen> \sh: can you file a wishlist for that
[04:44] <\sh> sladen: for what? I can't choose anymore what type of bug that is
[04:44] <\sh> sladen: I can set the status, and importance I can't choose anything
[04:45] <\sh> sladen: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vlan/+bug/50460
[04:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50460 in vlan "Please install this package by default" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[04:49] <seb128> you need to be a member of ubuntu-bugs to set the importance of a bug now
[04:59] <\sh> seb128: ug
[05:00] <Keybuk> seb128: \o/
[05:00] <Keybuk> though people should at least be able to set "wishlist" without being ubuntu-bugs
[05:00] <Keybuk> though, I suppose, formally, a wishlist request is actually a support ticket
[05:01] <seb128> Keybuk: people should be able to set an importance when filling the bug, not sure about changing when it's filed
[05:01] <\sh> Keybuk: short question. TB meeting this evening will not be postponed?
[05:02] <\sh> seb128: which is not possible in the actual UI of "Report a Bug" in LP
[05:02] <Keybuk> \sh: no idea
[05:05] <\sh> Keybuk: just asking, because you, mdz, mark, etc. are in Paris...and I think you have better things to do in paris these days ;)
[05:05] <Keybuk> especially given the time of the meeting
[05:06] <\sh> Keybuk: yes
[05:38] <sladen> \sh: if you're motu, you should be in ubuntu-bugs, IIRC
[05:39] <\sh> sladen: I removed myself from those teams a couple of months ago, because of a very special reason.
[05:39] <sbalneav> ogra: ping, online
[05:39] <ogra> sbalneav, pongie
[05:39] <\sh> sladen: that's why my name is on tonights TB Agenda ;)
[05:40] <ogra> sbalneav, sorry, i was held up on the corridor, but it seems there is no internet anyway at the comfy chairs
[05:40] <sladen> \sh: given that you have been before, there are probably easier ways of getting that sorted
[05:41] <sbalneav> yeah, we're in the room for a bit.  We can help draft there.  Do you want a gobby session?  or just keep reloading the wiki and the occasional comment from us?
[05:41] <sladen> \sh: and that IIRC, the reason that you resigned was to ensure safety of the archive incase keys got compromised
[05:41] <ogra> sbalneav, the latter should be fine for now
[05:41] <\sh> sladen: I think TB is the right way to do..so everybody knows, and keybuck or mdz can enable my account again
[05:42] <\sh> sladen: yes, that was the very special reason
[05:42] <sbalneav> ogra: k
[05:42] <ogra> sbalneav, i dont expect the spec to be done today, we'll have another session anyway and there is currently not much to write apart from "we're taking upstreams implementation"
[05:42] <ogra> all the intresting stuff will happen tomorrow ;)
[05:43] <sbalneav> ogra: save frequently so we can see updates :)
[05:43] <ogra> heh, yes
[05:44] <sladen> \sh: well in case it doesn't happen tonight, you should probably grab keybuk/mdz and get it reticked so that you can start doing useful work again
[05:47] <Keybuk> sladen: interestingly, how do we know that his key _hasn't_ been compromised, and that this is really \sh and not somebody else? :p
[05:48] <jsgotangco> good question
[05:48] <ogra> Keybuk, was the key actually revoked on the keyserver ? 
[05:49] <Keybuk> ogra: no
[05:49] <ogra> so why wouldnt you trust it then :)
[05:50] <Keybuk> I'm pointing out that the "resign for key safety" is null and void, because he never removed or revoked his key
[05:50] <sladen> ogra: because it's actually Darl McBridge pretending to be '\sh' and trying to tell us that all is well and the key hasn't been compromised
[05:51] <bddebian> Keybuk: Oh, \sh has definetly been compromised ;-P
[05:51] <jsgotangco> sladen: Darl McBride perhaps?
[05:51] <sladen> bddebian: plz.  Keep it to the bedroom
[05:51] <bddebian> Doh
[05:52] <ogra> Keybuk, right, thats sparse, but there is no reason not to trust the existing key 
[05:52] <Keybuk> ogra: there's no reason to trust it either
[05:52] <Keybuk> it's obviously the same key
[05:52] <Keybuk> but is it the same \sh ?
[05:52] <ogra> Keybuk, not more that trusting mine or yours, no :)
[05:56] <Keybuk> Given he deactivated from the team for the safety of the archive because he believed his key could have been compromised, it's not unreasonable to assume that the key was not safe
[05:56] <Keybuk> A prudent, or perhaps simply paranoid, keyring maintainer at this point would require proof that this was really \sh coming back -- and not someone who has compromised the key that \sh clearly believed was compromisable
[05:57] <Keybuk> That proof could be simply somebody who we know that knows \sh verifying it is really him
[05:57] <Keybuk> or the generation of a new key that is signed by a useful percentage of the same signatures as the original key
[05:57] <Keybuk> depending how paranoid one is feeling, of course
[05:57] <Keybuk> we could also take the airport checkin approach
[05:58] <Keybuk> "Did you pack these bags yourself?"
[05:58] <Keybuk> "...no..."
[05:58] <Keybuk> "OH, WAIT, I MEAN YES!"
[05:58] <bddebian> heh
[05:59] <ogra> Keybuk, well, if you require it i can visit him and take a fingerprint next week :)
[06:00] <sladen> ogra: I'm not sure a fingerprint will be enough.  I think keybuk wants the whole finger
[06:00] <\sh> Keybuk: kenneth wimer, oliver grawert, raphink, riddell
[06:00] <raphink> \sh:  yes?
[06:00] <sladen> ogra: preferably take a little one so that \sh doesn't miss it too much ;-)
[06:00] <Keybuk> sladen: it's got to be better than the food here!
[06:00] <ogra> sladen, right, i can arrange that as well :)
[06:01] <ogra> Keybuk, thats easy i guess
[06:01] <\sh> raphink: you can declare that it was me :)
[06:01] <Keybuk> ogra: indeed, if consensus suggests paranoia is required, it may be appropriate for you to visit him to check
[06:01] <Keybuk> or even just call him
[06:01] <ogra> well, thats something i can do right away
[06:02] <Keybuk> I'm not saying paranoia is required, I'm just thinking about the implications of reactivating a maintainer
[06:02] <Hobbsee> but then how do you know it's not some imposter who has a similar voice, depending on your level of paranoia.
[06:02] <Keybuk> it's clearly something we have to have a policy for
[06:02] <ogra> (unless he gave his mobile to the pretender :) )
[06:02] <raphink> \sh: huh? what are you talking about?
[06:02] <Keybuk> its also something we currently don't have a policy for
[06:02] <ogra> yep
[06:04] <Keybuk> and then, obviously, there are the standard questions such as "you went away, are you sure that this won't happen again" etc.
[06:04] <Keybuk> anyway, all TB meeting stuff really
[06:06] <bddebian> Is the TB meeting on today?
[06:06] <simira> did anyone put Mithrandir somewhere?
[06:06] <Hobbsee> simira: locked in the cellar - he was causing too many disruptions :P
[06:07] <simira> Hobbsee: oh. Well. Couldn't you just give him his laptop so he could talk to me?
[06:07] <Hobbsee> simira: no wifi from the cellar...
[06:07] <Hobbsee> so not really much point, except so that he can code.
[06:08] <simira> Hobbsee: that's what he's there for, isn't it?
[06:08] <jdong|coreduo> is Edgy still on lockdown?
[06:08] <Hobbsee> simira: true, but they dont usually get locked in cellars :P
[06:08] <ogra> Hobbsee, they dont call that cellar here, its apprently "-1"
[06:08] <Kinnison> Spec reviews are happening now. If you want to participate as a reviewer, please come to Atlas4/1
[06:09] <\sh> Keybuk: thinking about that I was close to not come back to any job/work/duty I had...because of living under a bridge
[06:09] <Hobbsee> ogra: hah, right.  i was about to call it the attic, and then released that was the wrong way around :P
[06:09] <ogra> in the ariport they even have -2 and -3 :)
[06:09] <Hobbsee> yeah, i've seen a few -2's
[06:59] <azeem> Seveas: ping
[06:59] <Seveas> azeem, ?
[07:03] <lifeless> Keybuk: ping
[07:03] <lifeless> anyone know what room keybu is in ?
[07:04] <Keybuk> lifeless: ?
[07:04] <lifeless> Have something to show you ;)
[07:42] <\sh> re
[08:00] <\sh> brb