[12:08] <MidMark> it's a bit different bug, but anyway I think for similar reasons
[12:09] <MidMark> sebas make the patch... someone have to confirm
[12:23] <allee> Riddell: aseigo is at paris too, right?  feel free to point him to 'http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=125696'.  AFAIK he likes interesting problems ;)
[12:23] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 125696 in general "digikam does not connect to USB camera with libgphoto-2.1.99" [Normal,New]  
[12:30] <imbrandon> Riddell, ping
[12:30] <imbrandon> apokryphos, ping
[12:35] <nixternal> riddell is passed out for the next 7 hours ;)
[12:36] <allee> nixternal: he's allowed to sleep?  ts ts ts ;)
[12:36] <nixternal> hehe
[12:37] <nixternal> well..i had somebody believing he was a bot
[12:37] <nixternal> so you never know :)
[12:37] <nixternal> those pictures could be of sony testing robots...they just made it look like the infamous Jonathan Riddell ;)
[12:38] <allee> heh
[12:44] <imbrandon> well i gave amarok-1.4.1beta1 some love if anyone wants to poke at it ( my key is in pubkey.html ) http://www.buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/packages/
[12:44] <imbrandon> i'm off to take a nap
[07:28] <Hobbsee> hi all
[08:44] <mornfall> morning
[08:45] <Hobbsee> morning mornfall
[08:45] <Hobbsee> !
[08:45] <mornfall> :)
[08:45] <pygi> Hey hey
[08:45] <mornfall> Mortal Love -- All The Beauty
[08:47] <Hobbsee> hi pygi 
[08:50] <Hobbsee> hi raphink 
[08:50] <raphink> hi Hobbsee
[08:59] <raphink> hi jsgotangco
[09:00] <jsgotangco> good monring
[09:01] <mornfall> *yawn*
[09:01] <raphink> hi mornfall
[09:02] <Hobbsee> mornfall: would you like some icecubes down your back too?
[09:05] <raphink> how can someone who is away join a place?
[09:05] <Hobbsee> raphink: very long arms :P
[09:05] <raphink> hehe
[09:05] <Hobbsee> besides, some people think i'm in paris, for some reason.
[09:06] <raphink> you're not?
[09:06] <raphink> ;)
[09:07] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:07] <Hobbsee> yes, unless i've been suddenly packed up in a squitcase and moved without my knowledge
[09:07] <Hobbsee> hmmmm...a squitcase...
[09:09] <raphink> ah
[09:19] <Hobbsee> raphink: i've met people that stubborn before.  they're darn annoying.  and its' certainly possible.  and the person in question sounds like a woman, i'm afraid to say.
[09:19] <raphink> no but really
[09:19] <raphink> I mean I'm pretty sure this guy has done nothing in open-source ever
[09:19] <raphink> and bugging us with that
[09:19] <Hobbsee> googled the nick yet?  yeah, i know
[09:20] <raphink> when ubuntu is one of the few projects who respects the GPL 
[09:20] <raphink> this is stupid
[09:20] <raphink> he should bother RedHat instead :p
[09:20] <Hobbsee> haha
[09:20] <Hobbsee> actually, the devs would all be up and awake by now.  they could all jump on him if they really wanted.
[09:23] <raphink> now I'm bored with that guy
[09:23] <raphink> he is ridiculous
[09:24] <Hobbsee> haha
[09:25] <Hobbsee> raphink: who maintains the ubuntu website anyway?
[11:50] <mornfall> wibble
[11:51] <mornfall> Pink Floyid -- Learning to Fly
[11:51] <mornfall> Floyd, too
[11:51] <Riddell> mornfall: are you going to write up adept-usability into a spec?
[11:52] <mornfall> Riddell: sure
[11:52] <Riddell> mornfall: when?
[11:52] <Riddell> do we need more discussion?
[11:53] <mornfall> from blog: I'll write down more later, i have to write down a spec for this before Riddell eats me :)). :-))
[11:54] <Riddell> yes, I am feeling hungry today :)
[11:55] <Riddell> mornfall: does "channel support" mean the commercial files that will be in app-install-data?
[11:56] <mornfall> not quite
[11:56] <mornfall> i have to guess my wiki password
[11:56] <Riddell> it's your launchpad account
[11:56] <Riddell> use your launchpad e-mail as username
[11:57] <mornfall> finally
[12:00] <Riddell> mornfall: what does it mean then?
[12:00] <Riddell> mornfall: supporting canonical's proprietry software archives will probably be needed by canonical
[12:01] <imbrandon> Riddell, got amarok all done and copiled against a clean dapper with only main ready for when you get back from paris ;)
[12:01] <imbrandon> compiled*
[12:01] <Riddell> imbrandon: cool
[12:03] <imbrandon> just for _MY_ upload i versioned them -0imbrandon1 so that the few people that have tested it for me wont have upgrade issues when / if it hits kubuntu.org ( as -0imbrandon1 < -0ubuntu0.1 i am told )
[12:04] <Riddell> yes it is, good idea
[12:05] <imbrandon> http://www.buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/packages/
[12:10] <mornfall> imbrandon: use dpkg --compare-versions :)
[12:10] <mornfall> when you are not sure
[12:10] <Riddell> && echo $?
[12:10] <imbrandon> mornfall, cool thanks dident knwo about that
[12:11] <mornfall> also, -0anything1 < -1anything1 :-)
[12:11] <mornfall> that's why you put the 0 before anything
[12:11] <imbrandon> yea i was more worried about the -0i and -0u
[12:12] <imbrandon> becouse when riddell puts them on kubuntu.org traditionaly he has them versioned -0ubuntu0.1
[12:12] <mornfall> you don't have to make it -0u
[12:12] <mornfall> -1ubuntu is just as fine
[12:12] <Riddell> mornfall: the -0 is usually for debian though
[12:12] <Riddell> so if it's not yet in debian we use -0
[12:13] <Riddell> anyone seen _Sime?
[12:13] <imbrandon> not lately
[12:13] <Riddell> I've no idea when he's expected to arrive
[12:13] <Riddell> imbrandon: I ment in Paris
[12:13] <imbrandon> ( late 6 hours )
[12:13] <imbrandon> oh ;)
[12:13] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:14] <imbrandon> mornfall, thanks for the --compare-versions though dident know about that ( still lots to learn )
[12:15] <mornfall> you are all complicated :p
[12:15] <mornfall> yeah, you have this being a fork of debian problem
[12:15] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:18] <Riddell> ** kubuntu-kiosk-profiles at 16:00
[12:18] <Riddell> ** kubuntu-accessibility at 17:00
[12:21] <mornfall> oh, kiosk profiles
[12:23] <imbrandon> also Riddell is there a way to overide the kds for the contect browser style ? the default kubuntu one is unuseable in amarok1.4.1 ?
[12:24] <imbrandon> *without also putting a kds deb in the repo* that would be bad i think
[12:24] <Riddell> for the what?
[12:24] <imbrandon> context browser style
[12:25] <imbrandon> in 1.4.1 the contect broswer is horzontal not vertical 
[12:25] <imbrandon> like in 1.4.0
[12:25] <imbrandon> a
[12:25] <imbrandon> context*
[12:25] <Riddell> and what breaks it in k-d-s?
[12:25] <Riddell> oh, the kubuntu theme
[12:25] <imbrandon> yea
[12:25] <Riddell> hmm, tricky
[12:26] <imbrandon> yea that might just have to be a quark in the "beta" for buntu users
[12:26] <imbrandon> *thinks*
[12:26] <imbrandon> thats the ONLY thing we have noticed though ( me and nixternal and hobbsee and linuxmonkey and snake all running it as a test )
[12:27] <Riddell> you could include a postinst script that checks the version of k-d-s and if it's the dapper vesion runs sed on the amarok file to remove the kubuntu theme
[12:27] <imbrandon> hrm yea , good idea
[12:28] <Riddell> well, not that good but good enough
[12:28] <imbrandon> heheh we good enough without having to do a special kds ;)
[12:30] <imbrandon> or is the context browser theme seperate somehow ? i guess i could just take the current one and flip it horozontal
[12:30] <imbrandon> if its a sep deb
[12:31] <imbrandon> or is it just included in like kubuntu-artwork
[12:31] <Riddell> it's in k-d-s
[12:31] <imbrandon> ahh ok , nm
[12:32] <Riddell> it's not worth fixing for dapper
[12:32] <imbrandon> right right
[12:32] <imbrandon> well considering that in #amarok they said that the old style of context broswer got reverted in SVN anyhow and wont be back till 2.0
[12:33] <imbrandon> it wouldnt make much sence to cahnge it then change it back anyhow
[12:33] <imbrandon> ( they noted its great they just thought it was too much for a point release )
[12:33] <imbrandon> heh
[12:34] <imbrandon> so 1.4.1 final most likely wont have a problem with the curernt theme
[12:37] <mornfall> Riddell: maybe you can check the adept-usability spec and point out missing stuff :)
[12:37] <mornfall> i know there are missing sections
[12:37] <mornfall> and design is incomplete
[12:37] <mornfall> but stuff up to design probably need some sort of review :)
[12:37] <Riddell> mornfall: ok, will do in a few minutes
[12:38] <mornfall> great, thanks
[12:48] <Hobbsee> hi Riddell and mornfall 
[12:49] <Hobbsee> Riddell: bot has access control now - i doubt you're on that list.
[12:49] <Riddell> evening Hobbsee 
[12:49] <Riddell> Hobbsee: bah
[12:49] <Riddell> Hobbsee: could you put the kopete url for kopete?
[12:54] <Hobbsee> Riddell: er, which is?
[12:54] <Hobbsee> you should be put on that access list, too
[12:54] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, kopete.kde.org
[12:54] <imbrandon> heh
[12:55] <Riddell> Hobbsee: kubuntu.org/~jriddell/kopete
[12:55] <imbrandon> Riddell / Hobbsee is that the latest 0.12 atm ?
[12:56] <Hobbsee> Riddell: /msg ubotu %register Riddell anypassword
[12:56] <mornfall> hi Hobbsee 
[12:56] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: not a clue
[12:56] <Riddell> imbrandon: it's 0.12, it's not the latest packaging
[12:56] <imbrandon> ahh ok
[12:57] <imbrandon> thats what i was wondering were the latest package resides
[12:57] <Hobbsee> Riddell: try adding now
[12:58] <Riddell> groovy, sorted
[12:58] <Riddell> thanks Hobbsee 
[12:59] <Hobbsee> ah, i do have the power to add people!
[12:59] <Hobbsee> this bot is damned confusing!
[12:59] <Riddell> bost are
[12:59] <Riddell> bots
[01:00] <Hobbsee> it's not that it's complicated, but the terminology is rather dodgy.
[01:01] <Hobbsee> er, s/rather dodgy/damn confusing!
[01:01] <nixternal> moin
[01:02] <Hobbsee> Riddell: the way to operate the bot - you can use !tell user about foo, !foo > user, !foo, etc...
[01:02] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: all on the mailing list ;-)
[01:02] <Hobbsee> and there are a whole lot of aliases
[01:02] <apokryphos> and documented on wiki.kubuntu.org/UbotuUsage
[01:02] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: yeah, but with the amount of email Riddell gets, i doubt he reads an IRC op mailing list :P
[01:03] <Riddell> hell no
[01:03] <apokryphos> I just meant for you, Hobbsee -- the terminology can be tricky if you don't know it
[01:03] <apokryphos> imbrandon: I discovered it not too long ago, too 8)
[01:03] <nixternal> imbrandon don't feel bad..i get most of the "non high volume" lists...i have yet to see an irc team email fly ;)
[01:03] <Hobbsee> Riddell: :)
[01:03] <Hobbsee> dont tell me i finally got something right!
[01:03] <apokryphos> imbrandon: ubuntu-irc, if you want to join
[01:04] <imbrandon> apokryphos, yea i will after lunch ( just learned about the ubotu changes and the op chan too LOL )
[01:04] <apokryphos> heh =)
[01:04] <Hobbsee> hehe - yes, we see them.  it's useful, and it meant that i knew that Riddell was attempting to add to the bot :P
[01:04] <apokryphos> the new bot is an awful lot better, so it's great stuff, yeah.
[01:05] <apokryphos> imbrandon: I'll add you as an editor now, too.
[01:05] <apokryphos> imbrandon: but you'll have to register with him first :P /msg ubotu register name password
[01:05] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: why arent all members added as editors yet?  or are they, but arent shown?
[01:05] <imbrandon> apokryphos, ok
[01:05] <Hobbsee> hi kwwii 
[01:05] <kwwii> hi Hobbsee
[01:05] <pygi> kwwii, :)
[01:06] <kwwii> hi pygi
[01:06] <nixternal> moin moin everyone ;)
[01:06] <pygi> hi hi
[01:06] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: we're just doing it on a ask and you'll probably be added, basis.
[01:06] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: right
[01:06] <kwwii> pygi: I have done some work on the interface for bzr....sometime next week (after I get back home) we should discuss what I have done so far
[01:07] <pygi> kwwii, that's fine ,no worries :)
[01:07] <kwwii> cool :-)
[01:07] <pygi> have you contacted that guy who wanted to help you with oxygen perhaps? :)
[01:09] <imbrandon> Riddell, from #kubuntu : [06:04]  <Emess> http://kubuntu.org/images/kubuntu-mug.jpg <--can i buy this mug somewhere?
[01:10] <apokryphos> that's from Riddell's blog :P
[01:10] <nixternal> kubuntu.de imbrandon
[01:11] <Riddell> as nixternal says
[01:11] <nixternal> or if they ever get a LinuxTag around us imbrandon we might get one there ;)
[01:11] <nixternal> as a matter of fact..im going to LinuxDays at our local college today
[01:11] <kwwii> pygi: to be honest, I completely forgot about that
[01:11] <kwwii> pygi: I have been somewhat busy lately :-(
[01:12] <pygi> kwwii, oki, doesn't matter then
[01:12] <nixternal> I have about 50 Ubuntu/Kubuntu CD's im taking
[01:12] <pygi> yup, I know you was busy :-/
[01:12] <apokryphos> Riddell: why isn't some kubuntu stuff added to the ubuntu shop?
[01:12] <mornfall> --> lunch
[01:12] <Riddell> apokryphos: ubuntu shop is just a crappy cafepress thing no?
[01:13] <nixternal> yup
[01:13] <apokryphos> yeah, but come on, cafepress isn't that bad 8)
[01:13] <nixternal> ya it is..i have gotten stuff from them in the past
[01:13] <nixternal> they are way to expensive..plus i don't see the need for Kubuntu g-strings
[01:13] <apokryphos> heh
[01:13] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: NFI @ the latest kopete package.  do we have one source, or two, or what?  i thought there was only one, but i've got no idea what apachelogger was doing, and i have a suspicion that he ignored freeflying and my work, and redebianized kopete 0.12.
[01:14] <apokryphos> (don't worry, he had trousers on too)
[01:14] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: TMI!
[01:14] <nixternal> haha
[01:14] <apokryphos> don't worry, it had the KDE logo
[01:14] <nixternal> give um a yellow card Hobbsee ;)
[01:14] <imbrandon> hahah Hobbsee thats whay i was worried about too , thus my asking
[01:14] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, i'll look into it more after lunch
[01:15] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i think apachelogger took the changes that i wanted, but i've got no idea what state the package is in now, or where it is.  i've got a suspicion that it is two, because i was the original debianizer, and somehow it had been changed so i wasnt.
[01:15] <Riddell> mornfall: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyPackageManager
[01:15] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea i noticed
[01:15] <Hobbsee> oh i dont know.  but i sure wish people would actually tell each other what they were doing, before they go and nick the semi done version, and work on it - at least an email notification or something to say "this is what it was and this is now what it is" would be nice!
[01:16] <imbrandon> right right hopefully lp brz will help with that some
[01:16] <nixternal> word of the wise...don't allow flickr images to show "ALL" on a website...i guess i had nudey pics come across the family website last night
[01:16] <apokryphos> Mark has downloaded a .deb and wants to install it, but there's no application to do this in kubuntu. <--- right-click -> kubuntu package menu -> install?
[01:16] <Hobbsee> mind you, collaborating like that is still less stupid than all separate people doing separate packages for it - but only just
[01:17] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: yeah, that was working, probably still is, no idea why they dont have that listed.
[01:18] <imbrandon> Hobbsee,  is the stuff on ~riddell got my your and freeflying changes ?
[01:18] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: NFI, i'd have to grab the source and check
[01:18] <imbrandon> Riddell, said ther is a new package somewhere ( assuming apachelogger )
[01:18] <Hobbsee> my changes included a dep of jasper-runtime i think - something like that
[01:18] <nixternal> imbrandon speaking of Kubuntu items like the mug...there is a lady my old man uses to have his company logo's embroidered onto shirts...she is awesome and cheap...so im going to find some good polo's maybe when i get time and ahve her make me a couple
[01:18] <apokryphos> goals on that page look really good; it'd be nice to have that stuff in
[01:19] <Riddell> mornfall: see comments https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/adept-usability
[01:19] <Hobbsee> hah.  which cruel parent names their kid maisie?  :P
[01:19] <apokryphos> and, is smart going to be used for the adept quick install (as in gnome-app-install)? What's going to happen on that regard?
[01:20] <nixternal> alright, gotta get ready to go spread the Kubuntu ;)   talk to you all later!!!   have a good day everyone!
[01:20] <apokryphos> see ya
[01:20] <Hobbsee> bye nixternal!
[01:22] <Riddell> imbrandon: it's the latest one that apachelogger had made when I packaged it, it includes changes from you and Hobbsee 
[01:22] <Hobbsee> right, cool
[01:22] <imbrandon> k
[01:24] <Hobbsee> haha
[01:24] <Hobbsee> stupid program.  crashes when it tries to get my mail.
[01:25] <Hobbsee> http://pastebin.ca/69000
[01:28] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: what do you get if you run kmail from the command line?
[01:32] <mornfall> apokryphos: no
[01:32] <apokryphos> mornfall: is smart going to be used at all in kubuntu?
[01:33] <apokryphos> perhaps i should search the wiki :P
[01:33] <mornfall> apokryphos: no :-)
[01:33] <mornfall> no for "used at all"
[01:34] <imbrandon> hrm yesterday at the Smart BOF they mentioned it will be used in edgy
[01:35] <mornfall> edgy ubuntu
[01:35] <mornfall> sure
[01:35] <apokryphos> aha, wiki, excellent
[01:35] <mornfall> i'm not interested
[01:35] <apokryphos> mornfall: well that's what I'm talking about of course :)
[01:35] <mornfall> so unless Riddell drops me, adept will continue the set course
[01:35] <apokryphos> apt is still to be *the* package manager in edgy
[01:36] <apokryphos> and hence so would adept 8)
[01:36] <mornfall> it will stay that way for ever :] 
[01:36] <apokryphos> probably
[01:37] <mornfall> well
[01:37] <mornfall> unless you volunteer to rewrite adept in python using smart
[01:37] <mornfall> good luck with that :)
[01:38] <mornfall> who was the person with the python-based notifier? :)
[01:39] <apokryphos> cool, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/SmartPackageManager has a lot of info
[01:39] <apokryphos> interesting, biarch compatibility isn't mentioned on there and I thought it was the main reason for using smart =)
[01:39] <mornfall> where you got that idea?
[01:40] <mornfall> there's at least apt-rpm that supports biarch
[01:40] <mornfall> also
[01:40] <mornfall> it should be noted that biarch is so useless
[01:40] <apokryphos> I know, but apt-rpm isn't great
[01:40] <mornfall> noone cares :)
[01:40] <apokryphos> I got the idea from mark's original post to the mailing list
[01:40] <Lathiat> why is it useless?
[01:40] <apokryphos> and.........no, biarch isn't useless
[01:40] <mornfall> whatever
[01:40] <mornfall> it is
[01:40] <Lathiat> the ability to packaged install 32bit versions of software on a mainly 64bit system would be usefull to me numerous occasions now
[01:41] <apokryphos> care to enlighten us? 
[01:41] <apokryphos> Lathiat: exactly
[01:41] <mornfall> eventually, amd64 will unscrew theier architecture and it'll be useless again
[01:41] <apokryphos> hah
[01:41] <mornfall> s/64//
[01:41] <Lathiat> mornfall: how so?
[01:41] <apokryphos> ok, sure
[01:41] <mornfall> well, it's still useless for 95+% of cases
[01:41] <imbrandon> how is amd screwed the arch ?
[01:41] <apokryphos> so what? It still leaves that 5% which is very annoying at times
[01:42] <mornfall> the 5% can live with chrooting
[01:42] <Lathiat> also its not just amd
[01:42] <apokryphos> hell no
[01:42] <Lathiat> iirc its usefull for sparc & powerpc too
[01:42] <apokryphos> chroot is hardly an alternative
[01:42] <Lathiat> ugh no chrotting is ugliest shit in the world
[01:42] <Lathiat> and is just a patch aroudn the fact the chroot can be installed on the overall system
[01:42] <mornfall> it's much more elegant than biarch
[01:42] <mornfall> really
[01:42] <Lathiat> = biarch!
[01:42] <imbrandon> yea ppc64 and ppc32
[01:42] <apokryphos> :/
[01:43] <apokryphos> and really, other distros had biarch quite some time ago. Ubuntu/Debian really need to catch up 8)
[01:43] <mornfall> biarch means this ugly as shit workaround for not being able to have multiple versions of an so
[01:43] <mornfall> lib64? for fucks sacke
[01:43] <apokryphos> so what?
[01:43] <mornfall> it couldn't be more obivous special-case workaround
[01:43] <mornfall> sake*
[01:43] <imbrandon> mornfall, chroot is a pita for 90% of people , this is a "user friendly" distro ;)
[01:43] <apokryphos> looks very nice and tidy to me
[01:43] <apokryphos> exactly
[01:43] <mornfall> imbrandon: plain users don't mix 64b and 32b software
[01:43] <Lathiat> yes they do
[01:44] <Lathiat> firefox is a very popualr example
[01:44] <Lathiat> becaue flash etc arent 64bit
[01:44] <apokryphos> want flash to be able to work with flash+konqueror already? Not a problem
[01:44] <Lathiat> plsu there are a number of apps that fail to work properly on 64bit
[01:44] <imbrandon> mornfall, plain uses SHOULD use a 64bit kernel and all 32bit userland stuff with the EXCEPTION being 64bit userland
[01:44] <mornfall> Lathiat: ahem -- proprietary software? i absolutely don't care
[01:44] <Lathiat> the netflow collector software i use at work for example
[01:44] <apokryphos> see a nice package for ubuntu but the user (as a lot) didn't package it for amd64? Again, not a problem
[01:44] <Lathiat> which is free software
[01:44] <apokryphos> wine etc too
[01:44] <Lathiat> mornfall: just because you dont care, doesnt mean no one else does
[01:44] <Lathiat> so you should rephrase your opinion to
[01:45] <Lathiat> "biach is useless to me"
[01:45] <Lathiat> :)
[01:45] <mornfall> Lathiat: oh, it means that i won't implement it :)
[01:45] <Lathiat> also i lack the ability to spell
[01:45] <mornfall> which in turn means unless someone else implements it, it won't exist
[01:45] <mornfall> easy :
[01:45] <mornfall> :-)
[01:45] <apokryphos> ubuntu said it'd  be implemented through smart, anyhow
[01:46] <mornfall> feel free to rewrite all apt-based software
[01:46] <mornfall> noone is stopping you, really
[01:46] <apokryphos> some people are working on the problems
[01:46] <apokryphos> (see the wiki page)
[01:46] <mornfall> well, that includes adept
[01:46] <Lathiat> well id ont know aythign about smart
[01:46] <apokryphos> jdub & co.
[01:46] <Lathiat> i thought it was being worked on to make it work in apt?
[01:46] <mornfall> hahaha, jdub
[01:47] <mornfall> great
[01:47] <apokryphos> Lathiat: it's a very nice package manager :)
[01:47] <Lathiat> and dpkg
[01:47] <apokryphos> Lathiat: it works with apt just fine
[01:47] <Hobbsee> hi again all
[01:47] <apokryphos> wb Hobbsee
[01:47] <imbrandon> wb Hobbsee
[01:47] <Hobbsee> thanks, what'd i miss?
[01:47] <mornfall> Hobbsee: small flamewar
[01:47] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: discussing the credibility of biarch/smart 
[01:47] <Lathiat> Hobbsee: bickering abotyu biarch :)
[01:48] <mornfall> see, the real-world usecases for biarch are limited to proprietary software? come on
[01:48] <Hobbsee> oh darn!  flamewars are fun!
[01:48] <mornfall> you don't seriously think i should devote one hour to that
[01:48] <Hobbsee> ...to read and laugh at
[01:48] <apokryphos> mornfall: no, they're not. See the other example I gave.
[01:48] <Lathiat> no its not, it is however, a use
[01:48] <apokryphos> and wine is also 32bit
[01:48] <Lathiat> and one that is important to other people, unfortunately
[01:49] <mornfall> wine, great, another "important" usecase
[01:49] <apokryphos> I don't use it, but an awful lot of people do
[01:50] <mornfall> just run 32bit system... really
[01:50] <apokryphos> because it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean it doesn't affect others 8)
[01:50] <apokryphos> no, if I wanted a 32bit system I'd get a 32bit processor
[01:50] <Lathiat> but its not optimized!111one1
[01:50] <mornfall> apokryphos: bs
[01:50] <apokryphos> Interesting, though; the move to smart appears that it'll go further than I thought
[01:50] <apokryphos> "We need to evaluate how to make a migration from apt to smart possible and painless and what features/changes are required to make smart the first-class package manager for Ubuntu."
[01:51] <mornfall> "move"?
[01:51] <mornfall> what mvo said: apt will stick around for long
[01:51] <mornfall> that's all i care about
[01:51] <mornfall> you can go and bitch about smart as much as you want
[01:52] <mornfall> unless you actually write the kde parts that are missing, there is no point
[01:52] <apokryphos> I'm not bitching about it, I'm echoing its praises. And really, ignoring that it has these is just silly
[01:52] <apokryphos> I love apt too, but smart evidently has some things over it
[01:52] <apokryphos> (and visa versa)
[01:53] <mornfall> see
[01:54] <mornfall> i could probably repeat
[01:54] <mornfall> that i don't care
[01:54] <mornfall> about biarch
[01:54] <mornfall> at all
[01:54] <mornfall> so telling me that i shouldn't ignore the fact smart does biarch
[01:54] <mornfall> is sort of pointless
[01:54] <mornfall> right?
[01:54] <apokryphos> key is that *you* don't care about biarch; many others obviously do
[01:54] <mornfall> that's their problem
[01:54] <apokryphos> and it has more than just biarch
[01:54] <mornfall> you didn't mention anything :)
[01:55] <apokryphos> "smarter" algorithms, but I'll leave that to you to argue with them about; I don't know, but its one of its claims
[01:55] <apokryphos> "Smart has a very clean architecture and is used by many other distributions already. It has the potential to become the de-facto standard as a package manager."
[01:55] <Hobbsee> gee, was the GPL one not enough today guys??
[01:56] <imbrandon> haha
[01:56] <mornfall> *sigh*
[01:56] <mornfall> you know what
[01:56] <mornfall> at this rate, i will just leave you with smart
[01:56] <apokryphos> imbrandon: this is Ubuntu, inherently APT users who are saying this
[01:56] <mornfall> and forget about adept
[01:56] <apokryphos> not smart
[01:56] <imbrandon> apokryphos, cool
[01:56] <imbrandon> mornfall, why thats not a good attitude
[01:57] <mornfall> this "smart is going to take over world, give up" blah blah is not very encouraging
[01:57] <apokryphos> I'm not saying that, and APT is definitely in for Edgy and for still quite some time
[01:57] <mornfall> you are
[01:58] <apokryphos> it could come out on top, I don't know
[01:58] <apokryphos> mornfall: no, I'm saying that it's not totally lame, and it has a few very nice things
[01:59] <mornfall> i can read for myself, thanks
[01:59] <apokryphos> cool
[01:59] <mornfall> not
[01:59] <apokryphos> Ubuntu's fascination with it is possibly also down to Mark's love for python, don't worry
[02:00] <imbrandon> mornfall, no we were basicly asking about how smart and adept were going to co-exist since its obviously going to be in edgy along side apt, you go defensive and basicicly said that if it dosent matter to you you dont give a **** , and that to me sucks becouse its about the community not what mornfall wants , this is a user frendly distro
[02:00] <mornfall> well, basically, this whole flame just reduced my motivation to work on adept to roughly 0
[02:00] <apokryphos> why? Adept is wonderful :)
[02:00] <apokryphos> and APT is hardly dead or dying
[02:01] <imbrandon> exactly apokryphos , adept is good enough atm 
[02:01] <mornfall> imbrandon: i don't care about community that doesn't care about me
[02:01] <mornfall> why should i?
[02:01] <apokryphos> and surely if you believed what we were arguing mornfall you wouldn't reach that conclusion :P
[02:01] <apokryphos> we care very much, as I said, adept is wonderful =)
[02:01] <hunger> imbradon: Now that is motivating: "You are working on a good enough tool" :-)
[02:02] <apokryphos> it's a blessing to have an actual KDE alternative to APT, and it'll be in Ubuntu f or long
[02:02] <mornfall> well, smart is a fatal threat for adept
[02:02] <imbrandon> mornfall, how do you think they dont care about you? becouse of a few idiots that flame you in bug reports ? bah EVERY project gets that , look at ubuntu its self
[02:02] <apokryphos> s/alternative/front-end/
[02:02] <imbrandon> mornfall, no i think smart and adept can co-exist from what i've read
[02:03] <mornfall> imbrandon: not really
[02:03] <apokryphos> all plans on smart seem very vague to me
[02:03] <apokryphos> but they are working on using it (it's being used in gnome-app-install), but really don't know
[02:03] <mornfall> well, basically, the more support smart gets the more hopeless the future for adept
[02:03] <apokryphos> it seemed like "just an idea" in the mailing list, but who knows
[02:03] <mornfall> because ubuntu will be pushing hard to unify management
[02:04] <mornfall> they already are
[02:04] <mornfall> you probably don't feel it
[02:04] <mornfall> i do
[02:04] <mornfall> i had this flame with a guy who thinks i should just draw dialogs for their python code
[02:04] <mornfall> intsead of working on adept
[02:04] <apokryphos> :/
[02:04] <imbrandon> so why not adapt adept to fit into that picture mornfall thats my thoughts
[02:04] <mornfall> imbrandon: because it is totally impossible
[02:05] <mornfall> you can't use smart in c++
[02:05] <mornfall> at all
[02:05] <mornfall> you would have to rewrite everything in python
[02:05] <apokryphos> yeah, you'd need to bring in pykde
[02:05] <mornfall> which is basically rm -rf adept
[02:05] <imbrandon> bah yes you can , there are c++ python interfaces
[02:05] <mornfall> imbrandon: you don't understand it at all
[02:06] <mornfall> adept has very deep roots
[02:06] <apokryphos> mornfall: for there to be no adept there'd have to be no apt, even if ubuntu wanted that to happen it'd take a very long time
[02:06] <imbrandon> mornfall, maybe not but i do know what i heard in the disscussion of the smart BOF and they spoke of just that ( adept being c++ )
[02:06] <mornfall> apokryphos: no, it can be easily ruled out by someone throwing together a quick smart qt frontend and saying "here, you will use this"
[02:06] <apokryphos> we can't really speculate 
[02:07] <apokryphos> I see this a lot like the case of kde moving to scons for kde 4
[02:07] <apokryphos> great idea, might be good, might not be
[02:08] <mornfall> it's all just plain depressing
[02:08] <apokryphos> :(
[02:08] <mornfall> i spent nontrivial amount of time working on adept
[02:08] <apokryphos> I really don't think it needs to be
[02:08] <apokryphos> indeed
[02:08] <mornfall> it's not easy to throw it out
[02:08] <apokryphos> I don't think you'll have to 
[02:08] <mornfall> not too long ago you basically suggested it
[02:09] <mornfall> you probably didn't know
[02:09] <apokryphos> I didn't say it'd be thrown away, I just said smart'd be adapted into ubuntu
[02:09] <apokryphos> and they'll see how things go
[02:09] <apokryphos> (just like scons in kde 4)
[02:10] <apokryphos> either way; I hope they do what's actually best for Ubuntu, and I'm not sure (obviously it'd be ridiculous to suggest I was qualified enough to say) what is
[02:10] <mornfall> note Ubuntu
[02:10] <mornfall> not Kubuntu
[02:10] <mornfall> kubuntu is a second class citizen
[02:10] <apokryphos> I include Kubuntu with ubuntu
[02:10] <Hobbsee> s/Ubuntu/K&U&edu&Xbuntu
[02:10] <apokryphos> I get that feeling sometimes, but mainly in the past
[02:11] <apokryphos> these days I see better things in scope
[02:11] <mornfall> i get very real feeling here, now
[02:12] <apokryphos> as of late things have been looking good, Kubuntu-side
[02:12] <apokryphos> shipit, kubuntu bounties, etc
[02:12] <apokryphos> I have no idea what Canonical's long-term plan is, but possibly that plan doesn't involve Canonical itself :D
[02:13] <apokryphos> very interesting discussion the other day on what the plan really is, as Canonical is apparently losing a lot of money, fast
[02:13] <apokryphos> shipit for Breezy was estimated at $10 million, I think
[02:16] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: it is?  ouch.
[02:17] <apokryphos> suffice it to say it'd be a lot mroe dapper-time round
[02:18] <imbrandon> right and even more with edgy ....... *thinks that the word is out now and shipit should charge atleaste shipping and cd media costs , $9.99 usd ?*
[02:18] <apokryphos> the whole idea of shipit is that it's free, though
[02:18] <apokryphos> and it doesn't seem to me like they plan on cutting back on anything, even
[02:18] <apokryphos> so just what are they going to do :D
[02:19] <imbrandon> true and amazon sells dapper now ( and keeps the money ;| )
[02:20] <mornfall> ohwell, internet walked away
[02:21] <imbrandon> ?
[02:22] <mornfall> come on
[02:22] <mornfall> stop being annoying
[02:23] <Hobbsee> sorry, i'll try to stop joking around.  i didnt understand your statement though
[02:23] <apokryphos> mornfall: is adept used much in debian?
[02:23] <mornfall> don't think
[02:24] <apokryphos> odd, I'd always use it over synaptic these days
[02:24] <mornfall> you haven't seen the much faster development version :p
[02:24] <mornfall> but anyway
[02:25] <mornfall> 130 installations of adept
[02:25] <mornfall> from popcon
[02:25] <mornfall> 5500 for synaptic
[02:25] <mornfall> so you get the idea
[02:25] <Hobbsee> you can track that?  neat!
[02:25] <apokryphos> eek
[02:26] <apokryphos> I guess those old fogies are more used to it
[02:26] <mornfall> Hobbsee: only for the people who let system submit the data
[02:26] <Hobbsee> mornfall: ah okay, which is likely not many
[02:27] <mornfall> yeah, about 13k submissions
[02:28] <apokryphos> there's something on ubuntuf or that too
[02:28] <mornfall> true, popcon.ubuntu.com
[02:28] <mornfall> synaptic 762, adept 195
[02:28] <apokryphos> powerpc.......10 heh
[02:29] <apokryphos> interesting
[02:29] <mornfall> amd64 -- see, noone cares :)
[02:29] <apokryphos> bleh :P
[02:30] <apokryphos> mornfall: re: development version -- on svn somewhere?
[02:30] <mornfall> apokryphos: nope, my harddrive only
[02:30] <mornfall> no point in svn-ing, noone is able to compile it
[02:30] <mornfall> i mean, you need libept from svn and probably tagcoll from svn and everything
[02:30] <apokryphos> ah
[02:31] <mornfall> 116 for kubuntu-desktop
[02:31] <mornfall> hah
[02:31] <mornfall> adept has more installations
[02:31] <apokryphos> :P
[02:31] <mornfall> but ubuntu-dekstop has >400
[02:32] <apokryphos> ubuntu-desktop users install it, that's why
[02:32] <apokryphos> *ubuntu users
[02:32] <mornfall> heh, you wish :)
[02:32] <apokryphos> (ubuntu-desktop, that is, I mean)
[02:32] <apokryphos> i.e. to upgrade etc
[02:34] <Hobbsee> ubuntu's more popular than kubuntu anyway.  so?
[02:34] <Hobbsee> we only have to get all of the kde section right - they can deal with universe, etc
[02:35] <apokryphos> yeah, as I say, it makes for an interesting combination. Being on a distro where the actual most popular distro is the underdog
[02:35] <apokryphos> (in the wider GNU/Linux world)
[02:35] <apokryphos> *most popular DE
[02:35] <apokryphos> damn, my typing is sloppy
[02:35] <mornfall> most popular DE?
[02:35] <mornfall> wha?
[02:35] <mornfall> :-)
[02:36] <mornfall> in europe, probably
[02:36] <apokryphos> kde's the most popular DE (desktop environment), but not on Ubuntu
[02:36] <apokryphos> everywhere, I'd say
[02:36] <apokryphos> LinuxQuestions polls... KDE users tripled GNOME users
[02:37] <mornfall> well, in debian gnome is more popular
[02:37] <apokryphos> it'd be just as interesting there, then :P
[02:37] <Riddell> Hobbsee: it's bause of the non free history
[02:37] <Riddell> because
[02:37] <Hobbsee> actually, i know of a way to make gnome certainly less popular.  
[02:37] <Hobbsee> urgh, i'd forgotten, would have stayed to be forgotten :P
[02:38] <Hobbsee> *prefered that to have stayed forgotten
[02:38] <apokryphos> I had an interesting discussion recently about controversy in debian; weird stuff. 
[02:38] <mornfall> The Gathering -- Analog Park
[02:38] <apokryphos> Riddell: non-free history? Debian?
[02:39] <mornfall> apokryphos: KDE
[02:39] <apokryphos> oh right, yeah
[02:39] <Riddell> apokryphos: KDE user to be non-free, debian likes freedom
[02:39] <Riddell> s/user/used/
[02:39] <mornfall> it's stuck with us, yeah
[02:40] <mornfall> You see the sign, it's on the road, but I think you're crazy
[02:40] <apokryphos> debian used to be sponsored in the early days by GNU, I didn't know that
[02:40] <apokryphos> hi haggai =)
[02:41] <mornfall> many things used to be
[02:42] <mornfall> some of the development are pretty ironic
[02:42] <apokryphos> what like?
[02:42] <mornfall> i should really unscrew development version of adept
[02:42] <mornfall> but i'm not quite motivated right now
[02:43] <mornfall> you know, i could release adept 2.2 in 2 weeks from now
[02:44] <Riddell> mornfall: do it!
[02:44] <apokryphos> do it :P
[02:44] <mornfall> well, that assumes i fix the stuff that's broken :P
[02:44] <Hobbsee> hi Tonio_ 
[02:45] <Hobbsee> Riddell: did it change since you last put the link out
[02:45] <Hobbsee> ?
[02:45] <mornfall> Riddell: btw, the channel stuff is not same as commercial software
[02:45] <Hobbsee> and for crying out loud, can we kill that annoying message about security!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[02:45] <mornfall> well, it may be
[02:45] <mornfall> but i don't know yet :)
[02:46] <mornfall> Hobbsee: what security
[02:46] <Riddell> mornfall: yes, I realise that now
[02:46] <Hobbsee> mornfall: the wiki.kubuntu.org dialog that always comes up when you first go there
[02:46] <Riddell> mornfall: I need to talk to mvo to remind myself how it works
[02:46] <mornfall> Riddell: it should work by only adding something to sources.list and updating
[02:47] <Riddell> mornfall: what's the channel stuff you have in the feature plan?  that's just the new repository manager?
[02:47] <mornfall> that something being described by some file
[02:47] <mornfall> Riddell: basically, yes, and using .desktop files to describe "channels"
[02:48] <Riddell> mornfall: can you put that on that spec wiki page then
[02:48] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ah, nice :)
[02:48] <Riddell> it actually sounds not unlike the canonical commercial archive stuff but I'll see when I talk to mvo
[02:49] <mornfall> i'll write it down a bit later
[02:49] <mornfall> say, 10 minutes or so
[02:50] <Hobbsee> well, waht they're for.
[02:50] <haggai> apokryphos: hi :)
[02:50] <Riddell> Hobbsee: for general queries like "show me all KDE games"
[02:50] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ah, right
[02:50] <apokryphos> debtags? Good for filtering
[02:50] <apokryphos> http://wiki.debian.org/DebTags
[02:50] <Hobbsee> like keywords or something?
[02:51] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea kinda , or selections
[02:51] <apokryphos> they work almost just like tags for images
[02:51] <imbrandon> like "compilers" or 
[02:51] <imbrandon> "games" etc
[02:51] <Hobbsee> ah ok, i see...
[02:51] <imbrandon> apokryphos, thats kinda how yum does it with rpm tags
[02:52] <imbrandon> hey i like my meta packages ;)
[02:52] <raphink> Hobbsee: metapackages make kubuntu-desktop possib
[02:52] <raphink> possible
[02:52] <Riddell> Hobbsee: so that an ubuntu user can install kubuntu
[02:52] <apokryphos> imbrandon: most distros use some sort of tags, from what I've seen. Or make selections in some other way
[02:52] <apokryphos> but metapackages seems some obscure invention by debian and used by ubuntu :P
[02:52] <Hobbsee> yeah, apart from kubuntu-desktop, of course
[02:53] <Hobbsee> raphink: they cant list the packages separately?  i guess not.
[02:53] <imbrandon> metapackages make it nice for things like testing www-browser etc
[02:55] <Hobbsee> mmm ok
[02:55] <mornfall> metapackages suck
[02:56] <mornfall> it's an impressively bad solution for grouping packages on the scale ubuntu uses it
[02:56] <imbrandon> why mornfall ( not trying to start another flame , i genuinely want to know why )
[02:56] <mornfall> imbrandon: because if one not completely important package has problems, apt will try to uninstall the metapackage
[02:56] <imbrandon> but thats just me , thats why i asked
[02:56] <apokryphos> imbrandon: because it's not clear what's being installed, it doesn't make it easy to remove specific parts
[02:56] <apokryphos> and you can't filter what you want to bring in as easily
[02:56] <Hobbsee> ah yes, that's true
[02:57] <mornfall> for upgrades, well, it screws up the algorithm used by apt really bad
[02:57] <apokryphos> if everything was in a "Selection" (as suse call it) or any such group, you can select it all, then remove what you don't want.
[02:57] <mornfall> because it tries to not break anything
[02:57] <mornfall> basically, apt assumes that some dependency is not satisfied, the package is "broken"
[02:57] <imbrandon> apokryphos, yea i REALY like the way suse does packages selections ( but thats about all i like about suse )
[02:57] <apokryphos> :)
[02:57] <imbrandon> ahh mornfall ok
[02:57] <seaLne> apokryphos: re kubuntu merchandise i'm am in the process of setting up a website selling (currently just tshirts) kubuntu merchandise with profits going to form bounties
[02:58] <mornfall> and it prefers to remove things than to keep broken things
[02:58] <imbrandon> seaLne, nice
[02:58] <raphink> seaLne: good idea
[02:58] <apokryphos> seaLne: nice :)
[02:58] <seaLne> tshirts are ordered and will arrive in a few weeks
[02:58] <mornfall> seaLne: you have an ack from trademark holder? (canonical)(
[02:58] <mornfall> -(
[02:58] <seaLne> yep
[02:58] <mornfall> great
[02:59] <apokryphos> seaLne: more profits, too, I guess, since there's no cafepress in the way?
[02:59] <seaLne> and better quality tshirts
[02:59] <apokryphos> cool 8)
[03:01] <Tonio_> hi all ;) hi Hobbsee
[03:02] <Hobbsee> hey Tonio_ :)
[03:06] <raphink> yop Tonio_
[03:07] <mornfall> Sonata Arctica -- Brokn
[03:07] <mornfall> Broken, too
[03:07] <mornfall> *sigh*
[03:08] <raphink> that's an old CD ;)
[03:08] <raphink> 5 years or so
[03:08] <raphink> isn't that on Ecliptica mornfall?
[03:08] <Tonio_> yop raphink
[03:09] <mornfall> Broken CDS here
[03:09] <Tonio_> hard day today.....
[03:09] <mornfall> but Winterheart's Guild otherwise
[03:10] <mornfall> what about Velvet Darkness They Fear by Theatre of Tragedy -- '96 :-)
[03:11] <mornfall> Broken CDS is 2003
[03:11] <mornfall> not too lod
[03:11] <mornfall> old
[03:12] <Riddell> mornfall: it looks to me like adept-installer doesn't use the icons from /usr/share/app-install/icons
[03:12] <mornfall> it should
[03:12] <mornfall> i mean
[03:13] <mornfall> let's try
[03:13] <Riddell> ah, it doesn't use the .xpm icons
[03:13] <mornfall> well, .xpm... it uses KIconLoader
[03:13] <mornfall> IIRC
[03:13] <mornfall> let's try
[03:13] <mornfall> s/try/look/
[03:14] <Riddell> right, so it's a problem in two places, adept doesn't do .xpm and app-install seems to include only .xpm files when it we have perfetly good .png ones in the packages
[03:14] <Riddell> best place to fix that would be app-install
[03:14] <Riddell> although if adept did .xpm somehow that wouldn't hurt either
[03:14] <Riddell> so I need to grab mvo again and tell him to fix the icon extraction thingy
[03:15] <mornfall> nah, it uses QImage
[03:15] <mornfall> so it's probably qt problem :)
[03:15] <mornfall> either that
[03:15] <mornfall> or KResourceDir problem
[03:15] <mornfall> because that's used as well to find icons
[03:15] <mornfall> or the .desktop files omit the extension
[03:15] <mornfall> for .xpm
[03:16] <mornfall> no it doesn't
[03:16] <mornfall> so dunnow
[03:16] <mornfall> xpm icons are evil anyway :p
[03:16] <Riddell> yes, agreed
[03:19] <mornfall> if they can be made into png, great, if no, i can check what the problem is
[03:19] <Hobbsee> yay :)
[03:26] <bddebian> Hello
[03:27] <Hobbsee> hiya bddebian 
[03:28] <mornfall> now i need someone who would implement this boring part for me
[03:29] <Riddell> I just found two major bugs in gnome-app-install
[03:29] <Riddell> and its slow as anything
[03:30] <Riddell> adept-installer is so much better
[03:31] <mornfall> hmm, adept-installer is really slow too :-)
[03:31] <mornfall> it will hopefully improve with 2.2
[03:32] <mornfall> Riddell: where are you? :)
[03:32] <mornfall> simon edwards is looking for people to meet with :-)
[03:33] <Riddell> mornfall: downstairs
[03:33] <Riddell> where is he?
[03:33] <mornfall> downstairs too :)
[03:33] <mornfall> he's going to atlas now
[03:33] <Riddell> ah, I spot him
[03:33] <mornfall> great :)
[03:33] <Riddell> he's stopped for refreshments
[03:33] <mornfall> :-)
[03:54] <Riddell> mndo!
[03:55] <Riddell> mornfall: seen ervin?
[03:55] <mndo> hi there!
[03:55] <mornfall> Riddell: not lately
[03:55] <mornfall> last time around lunch
[04:08] <Riddell> mornfall: what's the status of adept-usability?
[04:11] <mornfall> hrm, nothing new
[04:11] <mornfall> i wanted to do something :)
[04:13] <mornfall> the wiki hates me
[04:14] <Hobbsee> mornfall: dont worry, it hates everyone.
[04:14] <mornfall> it's hung
[04:14] <Hobbsee> ah
[04:15] <mornfall> seems i can't edit
[04:15] <mornfall> oh i can now
[04:15] <mornfall> weird
[04:23] <mornfall> i have updated KubuntuEdgyPackageManager
[04:24] <mornfall> as for the usability one, it prolly needs the sketches to be photographed -- i have no idea where they ended up
[05:05] <Riddell> mornfall: you don't have them any more?
[05:06] <Hobbsee> Riddell: they'll be there all night - they're keeping on arguing in circles.
[05:08] <mornfall> Riddell: well, i have some of them but definitely not all
[05:08] <bddebian> w00t
[05:08] <mornfall> i could just draw them again
[05:08] <mornfall> or even better designer it
[05:09] <Riddell> mornfall: el might know, she's in atlas
[05:11] <Riddell> mndo: done any qtparted stuff or still busy with uni project?
[06:09] <mndo> riddell: i found that anaconda has lvm support and i am trying to see if it's is possible to reuse some off their python code on ubiquity
[06:10] <bddebian>  anaconda, lvm, python, ubiquity...  It's no wonder the world calls us geeks. :-)
[06:14] <Riddell> mndo: in ubiquity dirctly?
[06:14] <Riddell> mndo: if it's in ubiquity directly we'd just use partman
[06:14] <Riddell> which actually is likely to happen
[06:14] <Riddell> hi abattoir, me and aseigo were looking at your original mockups for the OEM installer, he really liked them
[06:17] <abattoir> Riddell: hello! wow.... cool :D 
[06:17] <abattoir> Riddell: did you get my mail?
[06:19] <mndo> riddell: at thie time i still am trying to completly understand ubiquity..
[06:20] <abattoir> Riddell: In case you didnt, i tried reaching Kamion through mail, to ask about the codebase, but i assume he is very busy, as i havent got any response...
[06:20] <abattoir> Riddell: can you please ask him for me if you can?
[06:22] <abattoir> Riddell: I also am not sure how to reach mtp, the usability person.
[06:23] <abattoir> the launchpad page redirects to someone else and i suspect that is not the right person.
[06:24] <Riddell> abattoir: https://launchpad.net/people/mpt
[06:24] <Riddell> abattoir: I did get your e-mail, although I'm very busy at the conference and not really paying much attention to e-mail just now
[06:25] <Riddell> abattoir: I'll ask kamion when he plans to work on it when I next bump into him, I can't see him in this room just now
[06:25] <abattoir> Riddell: sorry, my mistake, thought it was mtp :S 
[06:26] <abattoir> Riddell: no problem, i just wanted to give you an update
[06:26] <abattoir> and i am working on the UI anyways, when Kamion finishes, i'll modify/change it appropriately...
[06:27] <abattoir> anyway, i think i have an idea of how it is going to be, looking at the original oem-config and ubiquity :) 
[06:29] <abattoir> Riddell: and... thank you :)
[06:31] <Hobbsee> night all
[06:31] <bddebian> See ya Hobbsee
[06:46] <theine> Is there any chance that we'll see kopete 0.12 packages at http://kubuntu.org/packages?
[06:48] <Riddell> theine: no, I'll upload them to edgy next week and we'll get backports
[06:48] <theine> Riddell: Nice
[06:49] <theine> Riddell: Will you enable the experimental jingle support by any chance?
[06:50] <Riddell> theine: I'll need to look at the package and whether it is sane to do so
[06:50] <Riddell> it would need jingle in main
[06:50] <theine> Riddell: Ah, yes, and also ortp 0.7.1
[06:51] <Riddell> apachelogger was doing the packaging
[06:51] <theine> Riddell: But still, having a deb-src for kopete 0.12 is great
[06:52] <apachelogger> only ortp 0.7.1
[06:52] <apachelogger> jingle is builtin afaik
[06:53] <apachelogger> though really no idea howto get ortp in a proper way without effecting the current libortp (which might be needed by some stuff)
[06:53] <theine> apachelogger: and that could be added to the repos as libortp1 (which currenlty doesn't exist) I guess?
[06:53] <theine> apachelogger: ah, ok
[06:54] <apachelogger> well, no idea whether the libs will conflict - naming of the files I mean
[06:54] <apachelogger> currently working on getting a kopete-dev built properly ;-)
[06:54] <apachelogger> but now I'm cutting the paperboard for my Kay :D http://picasaweb.google.com/apachelogger/KDEEverywhereMalta
[07:08] <Tonio_> toma: ping ?
[07:58] <toma> tonio has left the building?