[12:07] hub: around? [12:09] here [12:09] hub: hi, I and Gloubiboulga are helping Maxence (Sp4rKy) for planfacile, he's just uploaded a new version without the copy file [12:09] Toadstool: why? [12:09] Toadstool: I saw [12:10] Toadstool: was quick [12:10] ok :) [12:10] yes, working on #ubuntu-fr-testing [12:10] get the "motu-reviewer" spam [12:10] s/get/getting/ [12:10] Toadstool: 'zetes au meeting Ubuntu? [12:11] Gauvain oui [12:11] moi non, je peux pas, je suis en plein exams :( [12:12] about planfacile, must i add the dl url to the debian/control in the description area [12:12] or just in the copyright [12:13] Sp4rKy: c'est pratique === doko [n=doko@81.80.162.93] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:13] de ? [12:13] Sp4rKy: celle de la "homepage" pas de download [12:13] d'avoir l'url dans la description [12:13] vala [12:13] k [12:13] a fera un dput en + :) [12:13] t'es plus a prs ;) [12:14] :p [12:14] ouais [12:14] depuis quand on parle franais ici [12:14] je sais quemon anglais est nul mais quand meme [12:14] Sp4rKy: depuis que ya que ca === trappist [i=trappist@tra.ppi.st] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [12:14] :p [12:14] tout le monde est en train de pioncer === hub devrait rentrer, tiens [12:14] ou ils sont tous en train de boire [12:15] tiens, dormir... c'est une bonne ide a [12:15] mouiah [12:16] pas encore pour moi [12:16] c'est un poil tot [12:16] mme pas une sieste ? ;) [12:16] et hop un dput :) [12:16] Toadstool: malalatete [12:17] je prefere rentrer d'abord [12:17] :) [12:17] bon allez 'ne nuit/'night/'Nacht/Noche toussa [12:17] bn ToadZzZztool [12:17] hub , tu es un MOTU ? [12:18] Sp4rKy: ouais [12:18] :) [12:18] Sp4rKy: tu veux que je review le package completement? [12:18] cool tu va pouvoir regarder mon paquet :p :) [12:18] ouais [12:18] je devrait [12:18] si t'as le temps [12:18] a partir de demain j'aurais un poil plus de temps [12:18] ma copine sera loin [12:18] arf [12:18] donc j'aurais que le chien a m'occuper :-) [12:19] :D [12:19] moi je travaille la journe donc la quele soir [12:20] bon dernier pbuild de audacious et dodo aprs :p [12:20] moi aussi je travaille le jour [12:20] :p === Erlang was like "uh it's #ubuntu-motu but it's #ubuntu-qc" [12:24] Erlang: #ubuntu-fr [12:25] seulement des maudzi francais [12:25] #ubuntu-qc, seulement des gentils qubecois. [12:25] a parle pas beaucoup remarque === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-84-203.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:25] vouais === linuxmonkey [n=linuxmon@unaffiliated/LinuxMonkey] has joined #ubuntu-motu === awbassett [n=awbasset@206.135.97.35] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:30] bon allez bonne nuit [12:30] Arrogance: you in Ottawa? === Cornellius [n=alain@142-217-38-112.telebecinternet.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:31] c-ya all [12:32] C, ya === Cornellius [n=alain@142-217-38-112.telebecinternet.net] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Leaving"] [01:05] hub, Toronto === Marce_ [i=marce@meinungsverstaerker.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Marce_ is now known as Marce === chiefofthejojos [n=bradpitc@86.59.25.121] has joined #ubuntu-motu === netgrabber [i=QxbqMpK3@host68-61.pool8248.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fabo [i=Arme-X@dra38-2-82-233-106-22.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === chillywilly [n=danielb@CPE-24-209-126-16.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === [PUPPETS] Gonzo [i=gonzo@80.69.47.16] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lionelp [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ajmitch_ [n=ajmitch@69.60.114.100] has joined #ubuntu-motu === chiefofthejojos [n=bradpitc@86.59.25.121] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mat__ [n=mat@82.247.157.187] has joined #ubuntu-motu === hub [n=hub@toronto-hs-216-138-231-194.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c211-28-181-26.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === imbrandon_ [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ryanakca [n=ryan@unaffiliated/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:00] hey === Rotund [n=joe@d29-208.rb.lax.centurytel.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:05] hi [03:05] how is it going? [03:05] ok === Kyral angers === zul steps aside === thierryn [n=thierry@modemcable222.48-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jinty [n=jinty@83-65-231-93.work.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:22] oy Shower, then to mail the KDE-Bindings list for help === BazziR [n=Bastian@p50804582.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === theCore [n=alex@modemcable240.218-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === shenki [n=shenki@ppp172-90.lns3.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-68-38-202-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === shenki [n=shenki@ppp148-165.lns3.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-68-46-148-215.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === pschulz01 [n=paul@eth6067.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _jaldhar is now known as jaldhar === NthDegree [n=NthDegre@212-1-151-77.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ctd [i=ctd@incubus.progsoc.uts.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-68-38-202-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === theCore [n=alex@modemcable240.218-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === No1Viking [n=micke@h-83-140-104-3.ip.rixbredband.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === dsas [n=dean@host86-129-18-36.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:01] hey guys. Is C++ difficult to learn if you have no experience in it or C ? === Yagisan has to pick either C++ or Java for uni [07:02] Yagisan: It depends on what other programming language(s) you know [07:02] and how well you know them. [07:02] Assembler (x86), Shell script [07:03] I'm thinking the C++ is more useful for me WRT Ubuntu MOTU related stuff [07:03] Yagisan: If you're confident that you can pick it up (it is harder than java) you may want to go for it. [07:03] Yagisan: Yeah that's true. [07:04] go for c++ [07:04] it has some weird, confusing bits [07:04] but it can be worth it [07:04] Yagisan: If you've got time before you have to make your decision, try to do some basic stuff in either and get a feel for what you like. I'm sure there's tutorials on the net. [07:04] dsas: I have 4 hours [07:04] Yagisan: flip a coin :) [07:04] :D [07:05] four hours is plenty of time to play with both. :-) === ajmitch decides to skip python & rewrite the project in java === Mithrandir goes downstairs to go swimming. === Yagisan flips coin [07:07] Mithrandir: youin a h [07:07] C++ [07:07] Yagisan: good [07:07] Mithrandir: you're in a hotel? [07:08] theCore: the Paris dev conf [07:08] you're a bunch of lucky guys [07:08] those guys are, yep. [07:08] now this will be interesting. At least I should find a good buck, and gcc is on everything I have [07:09] s/buck/book [07:09] Yagisan: good choice, just be careful to not shoot yourself in the foot [07:09] or let it rot your mind out [07:09] Yagisan: I highly recommend Thinking in C++, 2nd Ed. http://www.janiry.com/bruce-eckel/ [07:10] theCore: I'm good at shooting myself in the foot. I think I perfected that [07:10] crimsun: thanks. /me makes note === theCore [n=alex@modemcable240.218-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === theCore shouldn't ignore low battery notices [07:18] Yagisan: Java has a stronger and cleaner design, but it's somehow very verbose [07:20] Yagisan: on the other side, C++ has a thing call templates that let define new syntax, which is very powerful feature but also very hard to use [07:23] is there any plans to get Seamonkey in the repos? [07:24] or Flock, and all those mozilla "branches"... [07:26] theCore: It looks like I can get a 2 for 1 deal with C++. in theory anyway, I could also pick up C [07:27] well not exactly === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:27] yes and no [07:27] theres alot to doign things in C++ that doesnt work in C [07:27] Yagisan: yeah, pick all three [07:28] hi all [07:29] I wish I could, but I get 1 choice. Being the kind of guy that would like to have enough rope to hang himself with, C++ seems more attractive [07:29] Yagisan: try a dynamic language too [07:29] even if it means, installing mingw32-* and getting it going [07:29] G'day Hobbsee [07:30] hi Yagisan :) === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-motu === abelcheung [n=abelcheu@210.0.212.180] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:55] mmm 50% exemption nice :) [07:56] right, that's half a uni degree in 7 days. If only the rest could go as fast [07:57] haha [07:57] Yagisan: what degree? === imbrandon_ [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:58] Hobbsee: causing trouble in -devel again, I see [07:58] Hobbsee: this one http://handbook.cqu.edu.au/Handbook/programs_3.jsp?s=3&code=CQ18 === Hobbsee is hiding in the corner, wearing the dunce cap, yes, ajmitch [07:59] shocking [07:59] Yagisan: cool [08:03] Hobbsee: that's exactly what I thought too :) === NthDegree [n=NthDegre@212-1-151-77.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TomaszD [n=tom@xdsl-2196.elblag.dialog.net.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-motu === NthDegree [n=NthDegre@212-1-151-77.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-238-183.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === chiefofthejojos [n=bradpitc@86.59.25.121] has joined #ubuntu-motu === NthDegree [n=NthDegre@212-1-151-77.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === NthDegree_ [n=NthDegre@212-1-151-77.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lukketto [n=lukketto@host130-27.pool877.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:46] If i'm using dh_clean do I need to make my own clean target in debian/rules? === h4xter [i=h4xter@tor/session/direct/x-260025f99257e009] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Grebo5 [n=Grebo@toronto-HSE-ppp4305599.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lukketto [n=lukketto@host130-27.pool877.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu === NthDegree_ is now known as NthDegree [09:01] Hello, any higherups here? === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:02] hi Grebo5 [09:02] Grebo5: define "higher ups" - probalby in #ubuntu-devel [09:02] The download page for Ubuntu does not mention source code. The source code is not, unless I can be corrected as I just checked, included with the binary releases of Ubuntu. This is a GPL violation - and it pisses me off because I spent a good deal of time trying to find the source. [09:02] thanks :) [09:03] Grebo5: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+allpackages === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:03] Grebo5: It doesn't have to be included. Just available. [09:04] Can I put the binaries on my Internet server and put the source on a different Internet site? [09:04] Grebo5: no [09:04] http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCSourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites [09:04] the answer is as Mithrandir said; NO [09:04] the binaries are NOT linked at the download site of Ubuntu [09:04] i mean source [09:04] Grebo5: so? They're next to the ISO images and they're next to the binaries in the pool [09:05] it doesn't say that any download link has to be accompanied by a download source link. [09:05] The GPL says you must offer access to copy the source code "from the same place"; that is, next to the binaries. [09:05] next to the binaries [09:05] NEXT === xophEr [n=xopher@a84-230-124-206.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:05] Grebo5: calm down. [09:05] I wouldn't make so much of a deal of it other than the fact I've been runing aroundl ooking [09:07] Grebo5: you've not been looking very hard, then. Look at http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/ === lloydinho [n=andreas@ALagny-109-1-2-202.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:12] I evetually found that site before you've helped me, but it took quite a bit of looking [09:12] Grebo5: Ubuntu is among the open-source projects that really make it a strong point to respect the GPL [09:12] i would have thought so, that's why i'm a little but unimpressed/surprised at this violation [09:12] it's not a violation. [09:12] Grebo5: had you looked at some doc, you'd also have found that you can use deb-src entries in your sources.list and use apt-get source to get them [09:12] Grebo5: there is no violation [09:12] Grebo5: all those sites are controlled by the same entity. [09:13] Grebo5: we provide the sources for all the open-source soft we distribute [09:13] it is a violation, the source code either MUST be included with the binary or an offer of downloading NEXT to the binary, or an offer made to give the soruce code for 3 years at cost [09:13] there is no 'other' [09:13] Grebo5: are you a lawyer? [09:14] Grebo5: this organization scheme with packages comes from Debian [09:14] no, but i can read and i suggest you read the GPL and also this: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCSourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites [09:14] Can I put the binaries on my Internet server and put the source on a different Internet site? [09:14] The GPL says you must offer access to copy the source code "from the same place"; that is, next to the binaries. [09:14] now as far as I know Debian is maybe one of the very few projects that really make it a central point to respect the GPL to the very detail of it === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-238-183.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:15] Grebo5: all ubuntu servers have both the binaries and sources [09:15] in the same directory [09:15] Grebo5: use your eyes a bit [09:15] http://www.ubuntu.com/download === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-238-183.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Leaving"] [09:15] you show me the source here [09:15] you are offering downloads without the source [09:16] without even a LINK to the source === raphink never thought it could be possible to be that stubborn [09:17] this page in particular is aimed to simple users [09:17] If you say so, what I'd like is the best place to email ubuntu to deal with this violation since the letter is already addressed to the FSF [09:17] they don't need to be confused with links to thousands of packages [09:17] if you know how to use google [09:17] you can find the source packages of ubuntu [09:17] they are on the same website [09:17] Grebo5: The only thing you're required to do is offer to send the code via regular mail. [09:17] only with a different url [09:18] Grebo5: Ubuntu goes further than that and allows you to download it. Very easily, i might add. [09:18] Grebo5: are you from the FSF yourself? [09:18] Grebo5: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DistributeWithSourceOnInternet [09:18] Grebo5: what is your main activity in open-source, might I ask? === MagnusR [n=magru@c83-250-59-127.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:18] Grebo5: But you just go ahead and write to FSF. Tell them i said hi. [09:18] hehe :) [09:19] I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear from you :) [09:19] shawarma: you are required to either: 1) offer the code with the binary together (e.g. zipped), 2) offer the ability to download the source code, 3) offer to give out the source code when asked for a period of 3 years at cost. If that download page is not doing any one of these 3 things then it is a violation, peroid. [09:19] Just put up the source code, is that so hard? I don't think so. [09:19] Grebo5: the source code is there. [09:20] Grebo5: A) It's up. B) It's irrelevant - "FTP access to the source is not sufficient to satisfy section 3 of the GPL." [09:20] Grebo5: You are REQUIRED to offer it via snail mail. That's it. === LaserJock_ [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:20] Grebo5: The source code is available as it is. On the same servers. [09:20] Grebo5: To anyone who cares to download it. [09:20] shawrma, then show me where they offer it via mail there? there is no notice, there is no code but there are downloads [09:20] Grebo5: Yes, there is. 2 sec. [09:20] Grebo5: I'm sure youdon't need 3 years to find the sources on the net. Otherwise I'm very worried for you === lukketto [n=lukketto@host130-27.pool877.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === dholbach [n=daniel@ALagny-109-1-10-249.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:21] raphink perhaps not but it should be there - why should people waste their time trying to find it when it is required to be there? [09:21] dholbach: hi, welcome to trollland [09:21] Grebo5: do you develop? [09:21] hi dholbach [09:21] hey guys [09:21] grebo5: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/faq [09:21] does it matter if i develop or not, is it not enough that I want the code? [09:22] Grebo5: Search for "Can you send me source CDs". [09:22] as is my right? [09:22] Grebo5: do you see that if you had come here gently and had asked nicely how to get the source it would have been answered to you in about ... say ... 1 minute maximum? [09:22] shawarma: up for some mao? ;-) [09:22] Grebo5: What is it exactly that you feel is stopping you fro getting the source? [09:22] LaserJock_: Always. :-) [09:22] LaserJock_: Taking the name of our leader in vain. Tsk, tsk... [09:22] Grebo5: do you see that you're making everyone lose their time, and that you haven't even tried to understand how to get the source directly and efficiently? [09:22] raphink, i dont care about 'nice' i care about my rights and freedom to get the source. jumping though hopes is not apart of the GPL [09:22] shawarma: heh, I think I can do better the next time [09:23] Grebo5: source images are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/6.06/release/source/ [09:23] raphink: In my world, having to get source code via snailmail is "jumping through hoops". Typing "apt-get source linux-image-2.6.15-23-686" isn't. [09:23] raphink: Sorry, that was for grebo5. [09:24] Grebo5: What I just wrote to raphink was for you. [09:24] shawarma: hehe ;) [09:24] thanks Mithrandir, but I found what seems to be the source at archive.ubuntu...etc. But is it the source to what I downloaded? Where's the link at the main download page? [09:25] I think it should be up, and I'll be contacting people who will be able to *put* it up. [09:25] Grebo5: if you're bothered it's not the right source, then get the source and build it [09:25] Grebo5: all right, write to the FSF and say hi from the ubuntu devs [09:25] gpl says get it the same way you got the binary , get it that way and ;e me get bacl to work , bah [09:25] Grebo5: there's no requirement to have a source download link next to any binary download link. [09:25] Grebo5: it's easily discoverable for people who want it [09:25] raphink: I don't think that is helpful [09:25] raphink, i am bothered that the GPL is in violation and my freedom to easily get the source is hampered, by what ever degree, by this apparent violation. === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:26] Grebo5: are you the copyright holder of any GPL software in Ubuntu? [09:26] azeem: that's irrelevant. [09:26] thanks for your time, i have not been pursuaded that not having a link to the source isn't a violation (it is according to the FSF) and i hope that who ever can bring this to the attention of the website developers would do that [09:27] i'll be emailing them, but since there is no abuse@ubuntu.com etc., only support bullshit, we'll see if my letter gets though ;) === highvoltage [n=jonathan@ubuntu/member/highvoltage] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:28] Grebo5: cdimage.ubuntu.com and releases.ubuntu.com are next to each other, so I'm quite sure we're fine wrt to the "offer source and binaries from the same site" clause. [09:28] Grebo5: there's no requirement to have a source download link next to any binary download link. || http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCSourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites [09:28] (and more importantly, they're both controlled by the same entity) [09:28] Grebo5: that talks about sites you don't control. === vud1 [n=vud1@unaffilitated/vud1] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:28] read that site, read the GPL - i think you are wrong but i'll listen as to why the FSF is wrong [09:28] ;) [09:29] will there be a dapper "respin"? [09:29] Grebo5: https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+filebug [09:29] how hard will it be to get back to something productive? [09:29] robitaille: good point :) [09:29] Grebo5: who said gpl was wrong? === sbalneav [n=sbalneav@ALagny-109-1-2-202.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:29] dholbach: just make a decision that this discussion is off-topic :) [09:29] dholbach: good point too :) [09:29] this channel is about maintenance of universe and multiverse packages and getting involved in package maintenance === jammcq_laptop [n=jam@ALagny-109-1-2-202.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:30] morning jammcq_laptop [09:30] highvoltage: howdie [09:30] If i'm using dh_clean do I need to make my own clean target in debian/rules? Is the answer "it depends"? [09:30] I'd like all the MOTU folks to read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasierMotuing - I'd really like to hear what you think about it and if you think it will make things better [09:31] it rocks! ;-) [09:31] indeed :) [09:31] dholbach: I'm definitely for MOTU school sessions [09:32] with, say, weekly introduction lectures [09:32] dholbach: it looks good to me :) [09:32] and I'm also for allowing good wanabees to commens on REVU [09:32] will there be a dapper "respin"? === Hobbsee just hopes that the MOTU sessions are at vaguely sane au timezones. [09:32] h4xter: what do you mean by respin? [09:32] since it makse them practice reviewing and thus improve their packaging skills [09:33] Mithrandir: a remake, just like fedora's "respins" [09:33] Hobbsee: I think the idea is to rotate so everybody gets a chance [09:33] LaserJock: yeah i know :P [09:34] h4xter: I don't know about fedora, so without you telling me what you mean by remake, I can't answer your question. === Hobbsee tends to not like sessions at 4am or something - but i know it's impossible to please everyone [09:34] why ever not? by the time I get back to the US I might be ready for 4am meetings for a few days ;-) [09:35] Mithrandir: a dapper with some bugs fixed, which also includes the most recent updates (security but not only) [09:35] we'll keep the logs and wiki-fy them (for people who are anot around) - i think we'll rotate in time, so that should be fine === sean__ [n=sean@71-214-92-217.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:35] h4xter: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperPointReleaseProcess [09:35] Mithrandir: so that people won't first download dapper and then the updates [09:36] LaserJock: haha [09:36] dholbach: yeah, sounds sensibile [09:36] -i [09:36] Mithrandir: cool! is it a new initiative? [09:36] h4xter: yes === antinobody [n=sean@71-214-92-217.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:37] Mithrandir: very very nice thank you [09:37] dholbach: ohh, I like the idea of having reference packages [09:40] Speaking as an utter noob, reference packages sound like a great idea. Particularly for the non autotools cases which the documentation doesn't cover. === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Kamp1ng_@easyubuntu/docteam/kgoetz] has joined #ubuntu-motu === h4xter [i=h4xter@tor/session/direct/x-07a436ea9cabe238] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:47] raphink: did you not actually get access to comment before you were a MOTU? Or am I confusing you with someone else? [09:47] he did, if I remember right [09:48] LaserJock: Are you at a BOF? [09:48] no [09:48] I'm trying to catch up after the mao game ;-) [09:48] My schedule is kind of empty this morning, so I'm up for a game: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/schedule/2006-06-22/shawarma.html [09:49] hmm, and anreas is over there too [09:49] andreas [09:49] Oui. [09:49] We need one of the regulars, though. [09:50] 2 sec.. [09:50] hmm, let me check *my* schedule [09:50] Hmm... both Ian and Daniel look appear to be busy. [09:51] I COULD also just try to get some work done. I found a Chairman game playing thing on the web somewhere. :-) [09:52] heh [09:52] http://kevan.org/games/maobot.html [09:53] shawarma: yes I did [09:54] shawarma: and that was a great packaging education :) [09:54] raphink: I'd imagine. [09:54] shawarma: as it is now, I (and others, too) often sponsor comments for wanabees, by email [09:55] raphink: I suppose that works, but keeping it on revu would be better. That way everyone can learn from everyone's mistakes. [09:55] Grebo5: you'll be happy to know that http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.06/ now includes a link to the source images too. [09:55] shawarma: I meant on revu [09:56] raphink: Huh? You wrote "by email"? [09:56] shawarma: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2444 [09:57] someone (in this case phanatic) writes a comment and send it by email to a reviewer, who sponsors it on REVU [09:57] raphink: Oh! Now I get it. === tiagoboldt [n=tiagobol@87-196-84-6.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:00] ;) [10:05] 'morning [10:05] hey there [10:07] I could be asking the wrong folks, but does anyone here have any idea why, when the ati drivers don't appear to work for any of the newer ati cards, and the radeon drivers often do, the ati driver is still the default? [10:07] well, the auto-detected one anyway === Kagou [n=Kagou@84.6.211.110] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:07] hi [10:07] I thought the radeon driver and ati driver were one and the same now a days? [10:07] hello again Kagou [10:08] well, not in functionality, I can vouch for that much [10:09] my plan is to sift through the code for both, figure out the difference, and see if that explains why one works and the other doesn't [10:09] I mean like the ati driver being kind of a "superdriver" containing the different subdrivers of ati like radeon.. [10:09] then, once I lose my mind, to attempt to take over the world [10:09] hmm, that makes sense, but in the case of all the radeons since the 9600 (at least that seems like the cutoff) [10:09] that ati drivers fail [10:10] the radeon work, at least partially [10:10] understand, I'm new to all of this [10:15] Could we schedule a REVU day? [10:16] I really mean *one*, to go through the amount of packages waiting [10:17] I'll mail the list [10:17] thanks Gloubiboulga [10:17] Gloubiboulga: we can do anything, we just need to get people to show up :-) [10:18] hi dholbach, LaserJock [10:19] What is a REVU day? === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === marcin_ant_ [n=marcin@194.114.146.122] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:20] hi all; [10:20] hi zakame [10:21] Hello zakame [10:21] hi zakame [10:21] hi zakame [10:21] No, seriously, ignorant though it may prove me, what is a REVU day? [10:21] antinobody: A day where we focus on REVU (http://revu.tauware.de). Like reviewing packages and so on. [10:21] Oh [10:21] thank you [10:21] np [10:21] hi Hobbsee antinobody Gloubiboulga Toadstool [10:21] my monitor just died of natural causes :/ === magnon [n=co@c-a368e353.05-27-6f736c2.cust.bredband.no] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:22] so here I am in the cafe now, lugging my CPU aroubnd :P [10:22] My laptop died, the official report claims a suicide, but I suspect foul play on the part of Windows [10:22] That is sad, however === kelmo [n=kelmo@madwifi/support/kelmo] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rob1 [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-motu === imbrandon [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doko [n=doko@ALagny-109-1-10-249.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Grebo5 [n=Grebo@toronto-HSE-ppp4305599.sympatico.ca] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === TomaszD [n=tom@xdsl-2196.elblag.dialog.net.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === dholbach [n=daniel@ALagny-109-1-2-202.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jinty [n=jinty@83-65-231-90.work.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Whoopie [n=Whoopie@192.166.56.68] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cassidy [n=cassidy@f1-pc174.ulb.ac.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:47] dholbach: is easy motuing in review? [10:47] LaserJock: yes [10:47] god [10:47] good, I meant [10:48] lol [10:48] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easier-motuing [10:50] anyone still not in the revu keyring, but wants to be added? [10:50] I need a testperson :) [10:51] umm, I'm not in the keyring, but I don't know whether I can be added [10:51] what is the keyring? [10:51] if you have a gpgkey you can be added, its for uploading packages to be revu'd [10:52] brb [10:52] antinobody: do you package things and want them to be added to http://revu.tauware.de? [10:52] siretart: well, if i use a newer email address to upload, but have my old address to sign into revu with, it means i cant comment on my own uploads. how do i fix that? [10:52] ha, no, and I don't have a signed key anyway [10:52] Gloubiboulga: I'll approve your post to ubuntu-motu@ or want to resend? [10:54] antinobody: you don't need it signed anyway [10:54] siretart: i dont know if that means you should drop the old email off the keyring, and add the new email to the keyring - even though they use the same key. [10:54] yet [10:54] raphink: yet? [10:54] you mean we'll have to start having signed keys soon? [10:54] Hobbsee: well it's good to have it signed to be a dev [10:54] Hobbsee: thats a bit tricky. because we use a separate database for authentication [10:54] but not to upload to revu [10:54] raphink: yeah yeah :P in a week or so, mine will be signed. [10:54] Hobbsee: by whom? [10:54] Hobbsee: basically your email is your login. and currently, logins are created on initial upload [10:54] siretart: right... [10:54] Hobbsee: does this answer your question? [10:55] siretart: yes, but i cant comment on my hobbsee@ubuntu.com email uploads with my hobbsee@gmail.com logins [10:55] siretart: no, not really [10:55] raphink: ajmitch, and maybe stevenk - how many people does it need to be signed by again? [10:55] er, - email from my statement [10:55] doesn't matter Hobbsee [10:55] Hobbsee: You have uploaded a package, and used what email? [10:56] depends on who signs it [10:56] in debian/changelog? [10:56] siretart: i upload packages using hobbsee@ubuntu.com [10:56] if you get it signed by all your neighbours, we don't mind [10:56] raphink: well, definetly ajmitch, for one [10:56] but if you get it signed by one ubuntu or debian dev [10:56] then it's enough :) [10:56] oh good [10:56] Hobbsee: ajmitch is definitely enough [10:56] hehe [10:56] Hobbsee: then this is your login id [10:56] imo :) [10:57] Hobbsee: if you want to use your gmail, you'd have to upload a package with your gmail.com email in debian/changelog [10:57] siretart: but it doesnt work. even with the recover password === Hobbsee wants to use the @ubuntu.com [10:57] ah [10:57] ok, then this is a strange bug [10:57] this will go away as soon as we authenticate against lp [10:58] moins Hobbsee dholbach siretart raphink [10:58] hi imbrandon [10:58] yea i need to lookup someone close to me to sign my key [10:58] hi imbrandon [10:58] havent got arround to it [11:00] siretart: argh! someone fixed it! it didnt work a few days ago! 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