/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/06/23/#ubuntu-artwork.txt

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lapohi12:36
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pooyahi, do you knwo of a human theme for thunderbird?01:04
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Who_wow, we're up to 14 of us in here now :)03:00
andreasnhey Who_03:00
Who_hey andreasn. I liked the mail to the list on the need to get icons to blend :)03:01
andreasnyeah, well, I do my best03:01
Who_Do you know if it is possible to get QT/GTK to launch with a different icon or widget theme depending on which desktop environment they are running in03:02
andreasnnot that I know of03:02
Who_Shame.03:03
andreasnwhat kind of scenario are you thinking about?03:03
andreasnerr...of03:03
Who_well, for example, if Amarok is started under Gnome it uses a QT theme and KDE Icon theme that resemble a gnomeone (like QTCurve) but if Amarok is launched under KDE then it uses the current KDE theme03:04
andreasnah03:04
Who_and vice versa for GTK apps in KDE03:04
Who_it would be a way to allow individuality and have things blend.03:05
andreasnI guess it's most likely that you use either ubuntu or kubuntu03:05
andreasnso that with the regular kubuntu-install, you would also get a matching gtk-theme03:05
andreasnand vice-versa03:05
andreasnI'm not into the details how that would work though03:06
Who_Perhaps, though I would be interested to see some data to back this up - I bet many KDE users use Firefox and perhaps Evolution.03:06
Who_ohh, sorry - I see what you were sayiing - we don't need to provide a way of seeing which one they are using - just go by what they have installed?03:07
andreasnwell, I guess that if you switch between the enviorments it would be good to make it switch03:07
andreasnbut most people will only use either of them03:07
andreasnso I think that would be a sane first step03:08
Who_yea - but I think switching is a lot less common than people 'borrowing' apps03:08
andreasnyes, that is what I mean03:08
Who_:)03:08
andreasnsorry, it's a bit late here03:08
andreasn:)03:08
Who_and here!03:08
Who_Where are you?03:09
andreasnsweden03:09
Who_An hour 'more hardcore' than me then03:09
andreasnwhere are you located then?03:09
Who_UK03:09
andreasnI see03:09
andreasnwill you come to guadec?03:10
Who_Fraid I don't have the cash or the time off work :(03:10
andreasntoo bad03:10
Who_Are you going?03:10
Who_yea - maybe next year when I'm a student so I get long holidays :)03:10
andreasnI know there were a bunch of other uk-dudes coming, so I though you might be among them03:10
Who_oh, UK-Ubuntu people?03:11
Who_just having a brief look around with google there isn't a good surefire way to detect whether kde or Gnome is running - especially if people are mixing and matching03:15
Who_Correction: I can't immediately see any good, surefire way03:16
andreasnuk-gnome people rather03:16
andreasnwell, that is what we have the programmers for03:17
andreasn:)03:20
Who_I was looking on some of the development mailing list archives (as I aspire to join the rank of 'the programmers' one day when I don't code all day anyway!)03:21
Who_but right now I have to go to bed :)03:25
Who_bye03:26
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meherenwow it's quiet here...03:55
Madpilothmm03:55
meherenhmm... what?03:57
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Madpilothmm, it's quiet, and hmm, I need a drink ;)03:58
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meherenlol im 2 young to drink...04:07
meheren(15)04:07
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kwwiimoin09:43
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lapohi10:32
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msikmaNow that's bizarre. I didn't know that the MSN Spaces logo was so similar to the Ubuntu circle of friends. http://spaces.msn.com/02:31
msikmaMaybe they stole it.02:32
msikmaEven has the exact same rotation. :)02:32
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fschoepbersace: you there yet?02:51
msikmaQuiet mail day.03:11
fschoepbersace03:25
fschoephow is everyone?  troy here on franks keyboard03:25
fschoephrm... i wonder where i went.  link dead.03:26
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fschoepheyas newz03:29
fschoeptroy here on franks keyboard03:29
newz2000howdy03:29
newz2000How's the meeting?03:29
fschoepwrapping up03:30
fschoepwent pretty well03:30
fschoepplenty of good stuff decided03:30
newz2000Did it feel productive?03:30
fschoepgood direction03:30
newz2000Cool03:30
fschoephell yah03:30
jsgotangco=)03:30
fschoepi am pretty sure the creative folks will really appreciate distinct direction03:30
newz2000Yeah03:30
fschoep(its troy here, not frank)03:30
fschoepthe whole spec process is clearer now too... having seen how it works from the inside03:30
newz2000Yeah, i talked to Jane a few weeks ago and told her that I was just itching to have good organization on the team.03:30
fschoepwe as a creative lot need to embrace it03:31
newz2000I really love order03:31
fschoepwell you got it.  it is very good.03:31
fschoepif you peruse the wiki, you can see most of the work frank has been pounding away on the keyboard03:31
newz2000I'm really glad you're putting so much effort into getting things together. I think you've done an excellent job03:31
fschoepthanks.  ubuntu deserves it.03:31
newz2000Better even than I was hoping for03:31
fschoepnow if everyone will support the whole effort, we will _really_ set an example for the open source community03:32
fschoepagain though, this is a trial period... everyone really needs to deliver03:32
newz2000I think once people see the power of a well-oiled machine they will definately be onboard.03:32
fschoepfranks back, troy out.  this is now frankie.03:32
newz2000BRB03:33
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bersacefschoep: ping03:42
bersacefschoep: i'm busy03:42
fschoepoh, can you talk for a minute?03:42
bersacefschoep: yep03:56
fschoephe's gone for a second in a meeting bersace03:57
fschoepit's troy here covering his keys03:57
bersaceso fschoep is troy ?03:57
fschoephe will be back, i think he wishes to speak with you regarding your wiki strcuture03:57
fschoepfor now yes.03:57
fschoepme troy03:57
bersacehihi :)03:57
bersaceyou should buy a laptop :P03:57
fschoephowdy good to see you03:57
fschoepyah laf.03:57
bersaceso what you want ?03:57
fschoepwell if i didn't sink a gabillion dollars into my desktop... laf03:57
fschoepuh i think he just wanted to keep you updated03:57
fschoepwith some of the wiki stuff03:58
fschoepand needs03:58
fschoepso that you are in the loop03:58
fschoepi think he also wants to ask you a question about the whole submission area etc.03:58
fschoepbut i know not for certain03:58
fschoepi know there have been quite a few critical documents added to the wiki, so it is important the people don't mess up the structure too much03:59
bersacei saw an anti-contribution in the wiki, someone revert back a changes i made : Redirect ArtworkTeam to Artwork :(03:59
fschoepwell you were on it and fixed it...03:59
fschoepjust let the mailing list know that you03:59
bersaceluckly03:59
fschoephave it under control03:59
fschoepwhat are your plans for artworkteam now?03:59
fschoepyou plan on moving the pages to direct redirect?04:00
fschoepor ???04:00
fschoepand we need to cull those legacy pages as they messify the nice clean structure.04:00
fschoepalso, the original page has palettes that someone wanted for inkscape, as inkscape accepts gimp palettes and frank has one there already.04:01
fschoepyou still there?04:02
fschoepbersace: also, tasks is now redundant as we have launchpad specs04:06
fschoepand the agenda too is obsolete.04:06
fschoepthere are a few links that need obsoleting.04:07
bersacere04:07
fschoepand a few pages that need updating as they are old04:07
fschoepand have some inaccurate data (mostly legacy pages)04:07
bersaceok04:07
fschoepwhat is your plan regarding those legacy pages?04:07
bersacekeep saying anything, i'll still be able to read id after :)04:07
fschoeplaf04:07
fschoepwhere the hell is frank04:08
bersacefor now, i'm busy for flegita and scouting04:08
fschoephe went out for a meeting.04:08
fschoepyah04:08
bersacebut i will continue the work04:08
=== fschoep knows
fschoepthis is a future thing04:08
fschoephopefully nearer... i can lend a hand when i return home04:08
bersaceand klepas will continues as he finish his exams04:08
fschoepindeed04:08
fschoepall should be very well and very up to speed04:08
fschoepwhich is about time04:08
fschoepoh i forgot to mention, we did some pretty nifty experimenting with xcursorgen04:09
fschoepfound out some very interesting things04:09
bersaceI would like to move Feedback, evaluation, Licensing in Incoming or anything else04:09
bersacenice04:09
=== bersace go shopping
fschoepyah i would try to sort out the legacy pages, and place a large note that04:09
fschoepthey are out of date04:09
fschoepuntil they are updated04:09
fschoepand some of the pages need proffing04:10
fschoepproofing even04:10
fschoepbad grammar (wanna etc) need spelling check04:10
fschoepbut that is minor04:10
fschoepperhaps a few folks can read the wiki and forward the edits to you04:11
fschoepanyways, i'm out04:11
fschoepthis will be frank again04:11
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newz2000Do you guys know of a thin sans-serif chisseled font like impact that looks good at very small point sizes?04:32
fschoepAre you using it for print or screen?04:34
newz2000screen :-(04:34
fschoepSo basically you need a pixel font that matches?04:34
newz2000I don't need a match, I just need something that's very vertical04:35
newz2000I'm recreating a graphic04:35
newz2000And I have a very narrow width04:35
newz2000impact is the closest I found yet04:35
fschoepOK, do you want to pay for the font?04:35
newz2000No, I don't think they want to pay for it.04:35
fschoepOK, that kind o flimits the options. Did you try WhatTheFont yet on it?04:36
newz2000no, haven't heard of it04:36
fschoepIt lets you identify the font used in a graphics file.04:36
newz2000really? Gotta try that04:36
fschoephttp://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/04:36
fschoepYou upload an image, specify an image region and it will try to match the font with it.04:37
fschoepThen you can get pretty close matches, then try to get free variants of the font family used.04:37
newz2000Cool. I'm doing it now. Thanks for the advice, that's defintely worth a bookmark04:37
fschoepNo problem, I hope it helps you out.04:38
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weideloi! silent in here, eh05:27
fschoepnot exactly05:32
fschoepsome are around, but busy05:32
fschoepgreetings weidel... i don't recognize you05:32
fschoepmy usual nick is troy, but i am typing from frank schoep's keyboard at the moment05:32
weidelHi there, no I don't suppose you would seeing as I joined the team yesterday :)05:33
fschoepgreat05:34
weidelAye, presentation and such are in the mailing lis05:34
fschoepwhat is your background?05:34
weidel~list05:34
fschoeplovely05:34
fschoepi would have probably known, but i haven't been able to check my email05:34
fschoepas i am away from home05:34
weidelYe don't have webmail?05:34
weidelhow very 90's of you. ;)05:35
fschoepwell yes, but my home computer drains it every five minutes :)05:35
weidelah hehe05:35
newz2000I thought it was funny that you were still logged in for the first part of the conf05:36
fschoepwell, i was but apparently i left the channel05:36
fschoepwhich is funny05:36
weidelThe short and sweet version; runs a design/media-company on spare time, worked in advertising agencies as graphics/layout, been IT-consultant and now I've left it all for studying :)05:36
newz2000Yeah05:36
fschoepbecause i thought i was on reconnect05:36
fschoepbut apparently, i wasn't.05:36
fschoephas there been much mail to the mailing list?05:37
newz2000no, weidel announced his presense05:37
fschoepi imagine i will be spending a good bit of time playing catchup05:37
fschoepthat's great05:37
weidelWell, I joined last night, and I have like 15 mails or such05:37
newz2000Yeah, but most are specs05:38
weidelmostly what seems like automated spec-updates or such05:38
weidelright05:38
fschoepspec updates are expected05:38
fschoepwe did a little housecleaning05:38
fschoepchanged some statuses, etc05:38
weidelI'm still a virgin in the opensource-business, so I'll be asking lots of stupid questions. Just a warning.05:39
newz2000Nothing too pressing i tlooks (mailing list traffic)05:39
fschoepweidel:  don't worry, we need more professional people as well05:39
newz2000Niel Drummond made a good post in response to weidel's post. It's a good overview of how to help out with the team and definately suitable for wiki FAQ material05:39
fschoepweidel:  the whole goal was to implement a structure that professionals/ nonprofessionals can contribute immediately and effectively (which is darn tricky)05:40
weidelAye, it was a good mail. Spent an hour just reading up on the links05:40
fschoepthere is a lot of positive motion05:40
fschoephopefully it will snowball as ubuntu has itself.05:40
newz2000I can't wait to see what happens when you all get back05:40
weidelAs a complete newbie, I believe I might have some valuable insights in that process.05:40
fschoepultimately, we need input.05:41
fschoepweidel:  if you read taht wiki, you can see a breakdown05:41
weidelie. how it all seems to me05:41
fschoepweidel:  again, heavy flux... but it will be far clearer in a few days.05:41
fschoepok... off... this is frank again now.05:41
weidelYou seem to have all the necessary communication systems in order, anyway05:42
newz2000We're getting there05:42
weidelBut it still seems a bit..fragmented05:42
newz2000you should have seen it two weeks ago. There's has been phenominal improvement05:42
weidelGood thing I didn't join earlier then eh ;)05:43
newz2000Before we were just a bunch of people who liked art, and we didn't really make a huge commitment towards dapper. The goal is to get organized and work as a team on the critical design components so that we can be signficant for edgy.05:43
weidelWhere did the original art in breezy/dapper etc come from?05:44
newz2000contract work05:44
weidelreally?05:44
newz2000There will likely continue to be some of that too. At least in edgy.05:44
newz2000The art team is pretty new05:44
newz2000And one immediate goal is to organize our selves, which is why a few people are in Paris at the conf right now.05:45
weidelcontract work as in paid professionals, or contract work as in telling some talented guys to do it?05:45
newz2000I don't know the full details05:45
weidelOrganization is key, to everything and anything05:45
newz2000Yes05:45
newz2000Plus, we're going to narrow our focus a little I think.05:45
weidelAnd, over-organization is death to everything and anything. It's a fine line.05:45
newz2000That will be a challenge I suspect05:45
newz2000Getting the balance correct05:45
weidelAye, I've been reviewing the wiki and the timeline presented up to edgy release, and it's a tight schedule05:46
newz2000Yes. We're all kind of holding our breath for the paris show to end so we can see what has come out of it.05:46
weidelas you say, focus is essential. 10 people working on 10 projects won't work.05:46
weidelwhat is this paris business about?05:47
newz2000Yeah, well if we were 10 working on 10 it would have been better. I think it was more like 40 working on 90.05:47
weidellol..05:47
newz2000Well, since Canonical/ubuntu employees work all over the world they meet up along with major community contributors after each release to plan what's next.05:47
newz2000Dapper came out last month so now they're meeting in Paris to hammer out what's going on next.05:47
weidelah, its a strategy meeting then05:48
newz2000yeah05:48
newz2000Not really a conference I guess.05:48
weidelwhen is it over?05:48
newz2000Today05:48
weidelaha nice05:48
newz2000I've not been to one, but plan to go to the next. I don't know what they do for real there.05:48
weidelis it open-invitation?05:48
newz2000I can see that there is a lot of energy and in the last four days have seen big changes.05:48
newz2000Yes, but it's a "get work done' type of meeting.05:49
weidelright05:49
weidelbtw, who are you then? :)05:49
newz2000My name is Matt Nuzum05:49
newz2000I'm in Iowa, USA.05:49
newz2000I'm a professional web designer, usability specialist.05:50
newz2000Not really an artist though05:50
newz2000But I'm good at faking it.05:50
weidelPerhaps a bit like me, designing the overall concepts and feel/interaction?05:50
newz2000Yes.05:50
newz2000I usually work with an artist who creates teh concept and then I make it realistic and functional.05:51
weidelI'm not really into the actual artistic bits, even though I suppose I can hold my own, but rather likes to focus on the grand picture and usability funtions.05:51
newz2000Where are you located?05:51
=== bersace is back
weidelSweden, land of pirates. A'hoy matey05:52
newz2000:-D05:52
weidelI think PirateBay is what sweden will be associated with, together with blonde women, from now on.05:52
newz2000Maybe. It's been interesting reading about that lately.05:53
newz2000Its hard to fathom, because I can't imagine that type of mentality gaining significant mind-share here05:53
weidelYeah, that bust was the best thing that could happen to piratebay/pirates in general, counterproductively enough05:53
weidelthe media coverage is ridiculous05:54
weidelbut then again, so is the politics05:54
weidelwhat mentality do you mean?05:54
newz2000Here it is assumed that intelectual propery is supposed to be very well protected. FOr example, if you're just standing on a corner and someone takes a picture of you they need your permission to publish it.05:55
newz2000If you make a piece of art and publish it, its yours and if people copy it or use it without your permission then you have very clear legal recourse.05:56
weidelWell, it's not that much different here. Difference is, you guys have an insane legal system allowing you to sue everyone :)05:56
newz2000yeah, it is a bit insane05:57
newz2000I don't get to see it from an international perspective too much, but I suspect that if your only view of it was through the media it might not reflect reality too well.05:57
newz2000They tend to exagerate some details05:58
weidelAnd, here we do have some leftover mentalities from being run by leftwings for quite a while, so people are pretty used to the mindset of commonwealth and shared owning05:58
weidelMedia is never a good information source, ofcourse. I've never been to the US, but I have been to Canada. And I do believe it is a bit out of proportion perhaps, but it is still a standing joke here in europe that someone could sue McDonalds over hot coffee.05:59
newz2000yeah, that's a joke here too.06:00
newz2000I laugh just thinking about it06:00
newz2000we say, "common sense isn't so common anymore."06:00
weidelhehe06:01
weidelThat's the difference. In US the legal systems say to someone like that "Ok, we will investigate and see if the temperature was overly warm and thus prevent future harm to consumers and pay you for your damanges" - in europe it would be "You're a moron. Stop wasting our time and prefferably stop drinking coffee if you can't handle it." Both sides has their ups and downs :)06:02
newz2000The outcome from that case is so uncommon that I have to guess there are some detaisl I don't know.06:04
weidelThing is, it can't be hotter than boiling point. And I don't see how it would be that hot even.. It's java, not lava. Anyway, it is strange.06:05
newz2000:-D Good one.06:06
weidel:)06:06
weidelbtw, what softwares do you usually use?06:06
newz2000For what? For bmp I used Photoshop 6 (too cheap to upgrade) and for vector I use illustrator.06:07
newz2000For code/html/css I use eclipse.06:07
weidelwindowsing still eh06:07
newz2000Sometimes.06:07
weideleclipse?06:07
newz2000I use crossover office to run photoshop in Ubuntu06:07
weidelI'm looking for a dreamweaver replacement, any tips?06:07
newz2000no. I've tried and tried but not found anything.06:08
newz2000What version do you use?06:08
weidelWell as far as I can tell, Photoshop CS2 doesn't work under linux no matter how much you try :(06:08
newz2000Yeah, I think you're right06:08
newz20006 and 7 do though06:08
weidelaye, but I'm quite fond of the improvements in later versions :)06:08
newz2000Yeah, its hard to go back06:08
weidelthey are a bit bloated though06:09
newz2000I have CS2 on my work laptop and it takes nearly twice as long to load then 6.06:09
weidelAye, but it is pretty much twice as powerful06:09
newz2000I don't konw... the only thing I've found I like a lot is the font preview in the drop down list.06:10
weideland the algorithms in the image processing are really, really better06:10
newz2000There are little things but for waht I use I haven't seen too big of an improvement06:10
newz2000like what?06:10
weidel6 doesn't even have vector support? Or was it 6 that incorporated it? Been too long..06:10
newz20006 has it06:10
newz20005.5 brought that I think06:10
weidelAh, that might be the case.06:11
weidelre: algorithms, the image quality in most every image processing procedure is way better in the new versions, as well as in the saved files that utilize compression06:11
newz2000I know some who still use 4. I think, "come on... you don't even have a history pallete or editable text."06:12
weidel4? geesh06:12
newz2000I mostly use photoshop for color correction and I use some of the layer effects.06:12
weidelYou should really give CS a go for the color correction bits.06:12
newz2000no thanks... I might get hooked! :-)06:13
weidelit has some quite impressive automated functions for it as well :)06:13
weidelhehe06:13
weidelI hear there is a fully working demo version on piratebay, haha06:13
newz2000Nah... I support programmers by buying the products I feel provide a good value.06:13
weidelvery true, but that's hard to know unless you've tried the program.06:14
newz2000yeah, I really respect code weavers because they provide very accessible trials. Macromedia did too.06:14
newz2000gotta go... lunch time.06:15
weideland generally, I am very opposed to the pricing on creative products, from Adobe to 3DS and what-not.06:15
weidellunch? Oh, you're on another continent. Right. :)06:15
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PseudoPlaceboBe right back.07:21
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newz2000yeah, I'm on another continent... GMT -5.07:45
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weidelping? :)09:16
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lapohi10:46
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