[12:36] <lapo> hi
[01:04] <pooya> hi, do you knwo of a human theme for thunderbird?
[03:00] <Who_> wow, we're up to 14 of us in here now :)
[03:00] <andreasn> hey Who_
[03:01] <Who_> hey andreasn. I liked the mail to the list on the need to get icons to blend :)
[03:01] <andreasn> yeah, well, I do my best
[03:02] <Who_> Do you know if it is possible to get QT/GTK to launch with a different icon or widget theme depending on which desktop environment they are running in
[03:02] <andreasn> not that I know of
[03:03] <Who_> Shame.
[03:03] <andreasn> what kind of scenario are you thinking about?
[03:03] <andreasn> err...of
[03:04] <Who_> well, for example, if Amarok is started under Gnome it uses a QT theme and KDE Icon theme that resemble a gnomeone (like QTCurve) but if Amarok is launched under KDE then it uses the current KDE theme
[03:04] <andreasn> ah
[03:04] <Who_> and vice versa for GTK apps in KDE
[03:05] <Who_> it would be a way to allow individuality and have things blend.
[03:05] <andreasn> I guess it's most likely that you use either ubuntu or kubuntu
[03:05] <andreasn> so that with the regular kubuntu-install, you would also get a matching gtk-theme
[03:05] <andreasn> and vice-versa
[03:06] <andreasn> I'm not into the details how that would work though
[03:06] <Who_> Perhaps, though I would be interested to see some data to back this up - I bet many KDE users use Firefox and perhaps Evolution.
[03:07] <Who_> ohh, sorry - I see what you were sayiing - we don't need to provide a way of seeing which one they are using - just go by what they have installed?
[03:07] <andreasn> well, I guess that if you switch between the enviorments it would be good to make it switch
[03:07] <andreasn> but most people will only use either of them
[03:08] <andreasn> so I think that would be a sane first step
[03:08] <Who_> yea - but I think switching is a lot less common than people 'borrowing' apps
[03:08] <andreasn> yes, that is what I mean
[03:08] <Who_> :)
[03:08] <andreasn> sorry, it's a bit late here
[03:08] <andreasn> :)
[03:08] <Who_> and here!
[03:09] <Who_> Where are you?
[03:09] <andreasn> sweden
[03:09] <Who_> An hour 'more hardcore' than me then
[03:09] <andreasn> where are you located then?
[03:09] <Who_> UK
[03:09] <andreasn> I see
[03:10] <andreasn> will you come to guadec?
[03:10] <Who_> Fraid I don't have the cash or the time off work :(
[03:10] <andreasn> too bad
[03:10] <Who_> Are you going?
[03:10] <Who_> yea - maybe next year when I'm a student so I get long holidays :)
[03:10] <andreasn> I know there were a bunch of other uk-dudes coming, so I though you might be among them
[03:11] <Who_> oh, UK-Ubuntu people?
[03:15] <Who_> just having a brief look around with google there isn't a good surefire way to detect whether kde or Gnome is running - especially if people are mixing and matching
[03:16] <Who_> Correction: I can't immediately see any good, surefire way
[03:16] <andreasn> uk-gnome people rather
[03:17] <andreasn> well, that is what we have the programmers for
[03:20] <andreasn> :)
[03:21] <Who_> I was looking on some of the development mailing list archives (as I aspire to join the rank of 'the programmers' one day when I don't code all day anyway!)
[03:25] <Who_> but right now I have to go to bed :)
[03:26] <Who_> bye
[03:55] <meheren> wow it's quiet here...
[03:55] <Madpilot> hmm
[03:57] <meheren> hmm... what?
[03:58] <Madpilot> hmm, it's quiet, and hmm, I need a drink ;)
[04:07] <meheren> lol im 2 young to drink...
[04:07] <meheren> (15)
[09:43] <kwwii> moin
[10:32] <lapo> hi
[02:31] <msikma> Now that's bizarre. I didn't know that the MSN Spaces logo was so similar to the Ubuntu circle of friends. http://spaces.msn.com/
[02:32] <msikma> Maybe they stole it.
[02:32] <msikma> Even has the exact same rotation. :)
[02:51] <fschoep> bersace: you there yet?
[03:11] <msikma> Quiet mail day.
[03:25] <fschoep> bersace
[03:25] <fschoep> how is everyone?  troy here on franks keyboard
[03:26] <fschoep> hrm... i wonder where i went.  link dead.
[03:29] <fschoep> heyas newz
[03:29] <fschoep> troy here on franks keyboard
[03:29] <newz2000> howdy
[03:29] <newz2000> How's the meeting?
[03:30] <fschoep> wrapping up
[03:30] <fschoep> went pretty well
[03:30] <fschoep> plenty of good stuff decided
[03:30] <newz2000> Did it feel productive?
[03:30] <fschoep> good direction
[03:30] <newz2000> Cool
[03:30] <fschoep> hell yah
[03:30] <jsgotangco> =)
[03:30] <fschoep> i am pretty sure the creative folks will really appreciate distinct direction
[03:30] <newz2000> Yeah
[03:30] <fschoep> (its troy here, not frank)
[03:30] <fschoep> the whole spec process is clearer now too... having seen how it works from the inside
[03:30] <newz2000> Yeah, i talked to Jane a few weeks ago and told her that I was just itching to have good organization on the team.
[03:31] <fschoep> we as a creative lot need to embrace it
[03:31] <newz2000> I really love order
[03:31] <fschoep> well you got it.  it is very good.
[03:31] <fschoep> if you peruse the wiki, you can see most of the work frank has been pounding away on the keyboard
[03:31] <newz2000> I'm really glad you're putting so much effort into getting things together. I think you've done an excellent job
[03:31] <fschoep> thanks.  ubuntu deserves it.
[03:31] <newz2000> Better even than I was hoping for
[03:32] <fschoep> now if everyone will support the whole effort, we will _really_ set an example for the open source community
[03:32] <fschoep> again though, this is a trial period... everyone really needs to deliver
[03:32] <newz2000> I think once people see the power of a well-oiled machine they will definately be onboard.
[03:32] <fschoep> franks back, troy out.  this is now frankie.
[03:33] <newz2000> BRB
[03:42] <bersace> fschoep: ping
[03:42] <bersace> fschoep: i'm busy
[03:42] <fschoep> oh, can you talk for a minute?
[03:56] <bersace> fschoep: yep
[03:57] <fschoep> he's gone for a second in a meeting bersace
[03:57] <fschoep> it's troy here covering his keys
[03:57] <bersace> so fschoep is troy ?
[03:57] <fschoep> he will be back, i think he wishes to speak with you regarding your wiki strcuture
[03:57] <fschoep> for now yes.
[03:57] <fschoep> me troy
[03:57] <bersace> hihi :)
[03:57] <bersace> you should buy a laptop :P
[03:57] <fschoep> howdy good to see you
[03:57] <fschoep> yah laf.
[03:57] <bersace> so what you want ?
[03:57] <fschoep> well if i didn't sink a gabillion dollars into my desktop... laf
[03:57] <fschoep> uh i think he just wanted to keep you updated
[03:58] <fschoep> with some of the wiki stuff
[03:58] <fschoep> and needs
[03:58] <fschoep> so that you are in the loop
[03:58] <fschoep> i think he also wants to ask you a question about the whole submission area etc.
[03:58] <fschoep> but i know not for certain
[03:59] <fschoep> i know there have been quite a few critical documents added to the wiki, so it is important the people don't mess up the structure too much
[03:59] <bersace> i saw an anti-contribution in the wiki, someone revert back a changes i made : Redirect ArtworkTeam to Artwork :(
[03:59] <fschoep> well you were on it and fixed it...
[03:59] <fschoep> just let the mailing list know that you
[03:59] <bersace> luckly
[03:59] <fschoep> have it under control
[03:59] <fschoep> what are your plans for artworkteam now?
[04:00] <fschoep> you plan on moving the pages to direct redirect?
[04:00] <fschoep> or ???
[04:00] <fschoep> and we need to cull those legacy pages as they messify the nice clean structure.
[04:01] <fschoep> also, the original page has palettes that someone wanted for inkscape, as inkscape accepts gimp palettes and frank has one there already.
[04:02] <fschoep> you still there?
[04:06] <fschoep> bersace: also, tasks is now redundant as we have launchpad specs
[04:06] <fschoep> and the agenda too is obsolete.
[04:07] <fschoep> there are a few links that need obsoleting.
[04:07] <bersace> re
[04:07] <fschoep> and a few pages that need updating as they are old
[04:07] <fschoep> and have some inaccurate data (mostly legacy pages)
[04:07] <bersace> ok
[04:07] <fschoep> what is your plan regarding those legacy pages?
[04:07] <bersace> keep saying anything, i'll still be able to read id after :)
[04:07] <fschoep> laf
[04:08] <fschoep> where the hell is frank
[04:08] <bersace> for now, i'm busy for flegita and scouting
[04:08] <fschoep> he went out for a meeting.
[04:08] <fschoep> yah
[04:08] <bersace> but i will continue the work
[04:08] <fschoep> this is a future thing
[04:08] <fschoep> hopefully nearer... i can lend a hand when i return home
[04:08] <bersace> and klepas will continues as he finish his exams
[04:08] <fschoep> indeed
[04:08] <fschoep> all should be very well and very up to speed
[04:08] <fschoep> which is about time
[04:09] <fschoep> oh i forgot to mention, we did some pretty nifty experimenting with xcursorgen
[04:09] <fschoep> found out some very interesting things
[04:09] <bersace> I would like to move Feedback, evaluation, Licensing in Incoming or anything else
[04:09] <bersace> nice
[04:09] <fschoep> yah i would try to sort out the legacy pages, and place a large note that
[04:09] <fschoep> they are out of date
[04:09] <fschoep> until they are updated
[04:10] <fschoep> and some of the pages need proffing
[04:10] <fschoep> proofing even
[04:10] <fschoep> bad grammar (wanna etc) need spelling check
[04:10] <fschoep> but that is minor
[04:11] <fschoep> perhaps a few folks can read the wiki and forward the edits to you
[04:11] <fschoep> anyways, i'm out
[04:11] <fschoep> this will be frank again
[04:32] <newz2000> Do you guys know of a thin sans-serif chisseled font like impact that looks good at very small point sizes?
[04:34] <fschoep> Are you using it for print or screen?
[04:34] <newz2000> screen :-(
[04:34] <fschoep> So basically you need a pixel font that matches?
[04:35] <newz2000> I don't need a match, I just need something that's very vertical
[04:35] <newz2000> I'm recreating a graphic
[04:35] <newz2000> And I have a very narrow width
[04:35] <newz2000> impact is the closest I found yet
[04:35] <fschoep> OK, do you want to pay for the font?
[04:35] <newz2000> No, I don't think they want to pay for it.
[04:36] <fschoep> OK, that kind o flimits the options. Did you try WhatTheFont yet on it?
[04:36] <newz2000> no, haven't heard of it
[04:36] <fschoep> It lets you identify the font used in a graphics file.
[04:36] <newz2000> really? Gotta try that
[04:36] <fschoep> http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/
[04:37] <fschoep> You upload an image, specify an image region and it will try to match the font with it.
[04:37] <fschoep> Then you can get pretty close matches, then try to get free variants of the font family used.
[04:37] <newz2000> Cool. I'm doing it now. Thanks for the advice, that's defintely worth a bookmark
[04:38] <fschoep> No problem, I hope it helps you out.
[05:27] <weidel> oi! silent in here, eh
[05:32] <fschoep> not exactly
[05:32] <fschoep> some are around, but busy
[05:32] <fschoep> greetings weidel... i don't recognize you
[05:32] <fschoep> my usual nick is troy, but i am typing from frank schoep's keyboard at the moment
[05:33] <weidel> Hi there, no I don't suppose you would seeing as I joined the team yesterday :)
[05:34] <fschoep> great
[05:34] <weidel> Aye, presentation and such are in the mailing lis
[05:34] <fschoep> what is your background?
[05:34] <weidel> ~list
[05:34] <fschoep> lovely
[05:34] <fschoep> i would have probably known, but i haven't been able to check my email
[05:34] <fschoep> as i am away from home
[05:34] <weidel> Ye don't have webmail?
[05:35] <weidel> how very 90's of you. ;)
[05:35] <fschoep> well yes, but my home computer drains it every five minutes :)
[05:35] <weidel> ah hehe
[05:36] <newz2000> I thought it was funny that you were still logged in for the first part of the conf
[05:36] <fschoep> well, i was but apparently i left the channel
[05:36] <fschoep> which is funny
[05:36] <weidel> The short and sweet version; runs a design/media-company on spare time, worked in advertising agencies as graphics/layout, been IT-consultant and now I've left it all for studying :)
[05:36] <newz2000> Yeah
[05:36] <fschoep> because i thought i was on reconnect
[05:36] <fschoep> but apparently, i wasn't.
[05:37] <fschoep> has there been much mail to the mailing list?
[05:37] <newz2000> no, weidel announced his presense
[05:37] <fschoep> i imagine i will be spending a good bit of time playing catchup
[05:37] <fschoep> that's great
[05:37] <weidel> Well, I joined last night, and I have like 15 mails or such
[05:38] <newz2000> Yeah, but most are specs
[05:38] <weidel> mostly what seems like automated spec-updates or such
[05:38] <weidel> right
[05:38] <fschoep> spec updates are expected
[05:38] <fschoep> we did a little housecleaning
[05:38] <fschoep> changed some statuses, etc
[05:39] <weidel> I'm still a virgin in the opensource-business, so I'll be asking lots of stupid questions. Just a warning.
[05:39] <newz2000> Nothing too pressing i tlooks (mailing list traffic)
[05:39] <fschoep> weidel:  don't worry, we need more professional people as well
[05:39] <newz2000> Niel Drummond made a good post in response to weidel's post. It's a good overview of how to help out with the team and definately suitable for wiki FAQ material
[05:40] <fschoep> weidel:  the whole goal was to implement a structure that professionals/ nonprofessionals can contribute immediately and effectively (which is darn tricky)
[05:40] <weidel> Aye, it was a good mail. Spent an hour just reading up on the links
[05:40] <fschoep> there is a lot of positive motion
[05:40] <fschoep> hopefully it will snowball as ubuntu has itself.
[05:40] <newz2000> I can't wait to see what happens when you all get back
[05:40] <weidel> As a complete newbie, I believe I might have some valuable insights in that process.
[05:41] <fschoep> ultimately, we need input.
[05:41] <fschoep> weidel:  if you read taht wiki, you can see a breakdown
[05:41] <weidel> ie. how it all seems to me
[05:41] <fschoep> weidel:  again, heavy flux... but it will be far clearer in a few days.
[05:41] <fschoep> ok... off... this is frank again now.
[05:42] <weidel> You seem to have all the necessary communication systems in order, anyway
[05:42] <newz2000> We're getting there
[05:42] <weidel> But it still seems a bit..fragmented
[05:42] <newz2000> you should have seen it two weeks ago. There's has been phenominal improvement
[05:43] <weidel> Good thing I didn't join earlier then eh ;)
[05:43] <newz2000> Before we were just a bunch of people who liked art, and we didn't really make a huge commitment towards dapper. The goal is to get organized and work as a team on the critical design components so that we can be signficant for edgy.
[05:44] <weidel> Where did the original art in breezy/dapper etc come from?
[05:44] <newz2000> contract work
[05:44] <weidel> really?
[05:44] <newz2000> There will likely continue to be some of that too. At least in edgy.
[05:44] <newz2000> The art team is pretty new
[05:45] <newz2000> And one immediate goal is to organize our selves, which is why a few people are in Paris at the conf right now.
[05:45] <weidel> contract work as in paid professionals, or contract work as in telling some talented guys to do it?
[05:45] <newz2000> I don't know the full details
[05:45] <weidel> Organization is key, to everything and anything
[05:45] <newz2000> Yes
[05:45] <newz2000> Plus, we're going to narrow our focus a little I think.
[05:45] <weidel> And, over-organization is death to everything and anything. It's a fine line.
[05:45] <newz2000> That will be a challenge I suspect
[05:45] <newz2000> Getting the balance correct
[05:46] <weidel> Aye, I've been reviewing the wiki and the timeline presented up to edgy release, and it's a tight schedule
[05:46] <newz2000> Yes. We're all kind of holding our breath for the paris show to end so we can see what has come out of it.
[05:46] <weidel> as you say, focus is essential. 10 people working on 10 projects won't work.
[05:47] <weidel> what is this paris business about?
[05:47] <newz2000> Yeah, well if we were 10 working on 10 it would have been better. I think it was more like 40 working on 90.
[05:47] <weidel> lol..
[05:47] <newz2000> Well, since Canonical/ubuntu employees work all over the world they meet up along with major community contributors after each release to plan what's next.
[05:47] <newz2000> Dapper came out last month so now they're meeting in Paris to hammer out what's going on next.
[05:48] <weidel> ah, its a strategy meeting then
[05:48] <newz2000> yeah
[05:48] <newz2000> Not really a conference I guess.
[05:48] <weidel> when is it over?
[05:48] <newz2000> Today
[05:48] <weidel> aha nice
[05:48] <newz2000> I've not been to one, but plan to go to the next. I don't know what they do for real there.
[05:48] <weidel> is it open-invitation?
[05:48] <newz2000> I can see that there is a lot of energy and in the last four days have seen big changes.
[05:49] <newz2000> Yes, but it's a "get work done' type of meeting.
[05:49] <weidel> right
[05:49] <weidel> btw, who are you then? :)
[05:49] <newz2000> My name is Matt Nuzum
[05:49] <newz2000> I'm in Iowa, USA.
[05:50] <newz2000> I'm a professional web designer, usability specialist.
[05:50] <newz2000> Not really an artist though
[05:50] <newz2000> But I'm good at faking it.
[05:50] <weidel> Perhaps a bit like me, designing the overall concepts and feel/interaction?
[05:50] <newz2000> Yes.
[05:51] <newz2000> I usually work with an artist who creates teh concept and then I make it realistic and functional.
[05:51] <weidel> I'm not really into the actual artistic bits, even though I suppose I can hold my own, but rather likes to focus on the grand picture and usability funtions.
[05:51] <newz2000> Where are you located?
[05:52] <weidel> Sweden, land of pirates. A'hoy matey
[05:52] <newz2000> :-D
[05:52] <weidel> I think PirateBay is what sweden will be associated with, together with blonde women, from now on.
[05:53] <newz2000> Maybe. It's been interesting reading about that lately.
[05:53] <newz2000> Its hard to fathom, because I can't imagine that type of mentality gaining significant mind-share here
[05:53] <weidel> Yeah, that bust was the best thing that could happen to piratebay/pirates in general, counterproductively enough
[05:54] <weidel> the media coverage is ridiculous
[05:54] <weidel> but then again, so is the politics
[05:54] <weidel> what mentality do you mean?
[05:55] <newz2000> Here it is assumed that intelectual propery is supposed to be very well protected. FOr example, if you're just standing on a corner and someone takes a picture of you they need your permission to publish it.
[05:56] <newz2000> If you make a piece of art and publish it, its yours and if people copy it or use it without your permission then you have very clear legal recourse.
[05:56] <weidel> Well, it's not that much different here. Difference is, you guys have an insane legal system allowing you to sue everyone :)
[05:57] <newz2000> yeah, it is a bit insane
[05:57] <newz2000> I don't get to see it from an international perspective too much, but I suspect that if your only view of it was through the media it might not reflect reality too well.
[05:58] <newz2000> They tend to exagerate some details
[05:58] <weidel> And, here we do have some leftover mentalities from being run by leftwings for quite a while, so people are pretty used to the mindset of commonwealth and shared owning
[05:59] <weidel> Media is never a good information source, ofcourse. I've never been to the US, but I have been to Canada. And I do believe it is a bit out of proportion perhaps, but it is still a standing joke here in europe that someone could sue McDonalds over hot coffee.
[06:00] <newz2000> yeah, that's a joke here too.
[06:00] <newz2000> I laugh just thinking about it
[06:00] <newz2000> we say, "common sense isn't so common anymore."
[06:01] <weidel> hehe
[06:02] <weidel> That's the difference. In US the legal systems say to someone like that "Ok, we will investigate and see if the temperature was overly warm and thus prevent future harm to consumers and pay you for your damanges" - in europe it would be "You're a moron. Stop wasting our time and prefferably stop drinking coffee if you can't handle it." Both sides has their ups and downs :)
[06:04] <newz2000> The outcome from that case is so uncommon that I have to guess there are some detaisl I don't know.
[06:05] <weidel> Thing is, it can't be hotter than boiling point. And I don't see how it would be that hot even.. It's java, not lava. Anyway, it is strange.
[06:06] <newz2000> :-D Good one.
[06:06] <weidel> :)
[06:06] <weidel> btw, what softwares do you usually use?
[06:07] <newz2000> For what? For bmp I used Photoshop 6 (too cheap to upgrade) and for vector I use illustrator.
[06:07] <newz2000> For code/html/css I use eclipse.
[06:07] <weidel> windowsing still eh
[06:07] <newz2000> Sometimes.
[06:07] <weidel> eclipse?
[06:07] <newz2000> I use crossover office to run photoshop in Ubuntu
[06:07] <weidel> I'm looking for a dreamweaver replacement, any tips?
[06:08] <newz2000> no. I've tried and tried but not found anything.
[06:08] <newz2000> What version do you use?
[06:08] <weidel> Well as far as I can tell, Photoshop CS2 doesn't work under linux no matter how much you try :(
[06:08] <newz2000> Yeah, I think you're right
[06:08] <newz2000> 6 and 7 do though
[06:08] <weidel> aye, but I'm quite fond of the improvements in later versions :)
[06:08] <newz2000> Yeah, its hard to go back
[06:09] <weidel> they are a bit bloated though
[06:09] <newz2000> I have CS2 on my work laptop and it takes nearly twice as long to load then 6.
[06:09] <weidel> Aye, but it is pretty much twice as powerful
[06:10] <newz2000> I don't konw... the only thing I've found I like a lot is the font preview in the drop down list.
[06:10] <weidel> and the algorithms in the image processing are really, really better
[06:10] <newz2000> There are little things but for waht I use I haven't seen too big of an improvement
[06:10] <newz2000> like what?
[06:10] <weidel> 6 doesn't even have vector support? Or was it 6 that incorporated it? Been too long..
[06:10] <newz2000> 6 has it
[06:10] <newz2000> 5.5 brought that I think
[06:11] <weidel> Ah, that might be the case.
[06:11] <weidel> re: algorithms, the image quality in most every image processing procedure is way better in the new versions, as well as in the saved files that utilize compression
[06:12] <newz2000> I know some who still use 4. I think, "come on... you don't even have a history pallete or editable text."
[06:12] <weidel> 4? geesh
[06:12] <newz2000> I mostly use photoshop for color correction and I use some of the layer effects.
[06:12] <weidel> You should really give CS a go for the color correction bits.
[06:13] <newz2000> no thanks... I might get hooked! :-)
[06:13] <weidel> it has some quite impressive automated functions for it as well :)
[06:13] <weidel> hehe
[06:13] <weidel> I hear there is a fully working demo version on piratebay, haha
[06:13] <newz2000> Nah... I support programmers by buying the products I feel provide a good value.
[06:14] <weidel> very true, but that's hard to know unless you've tried the program.
[06:14] <newz2000> yeah, I really respect code weavers because they provide very accessible trials. Macromedia did too.
[06:15] <newz2000> gotta go... lunch time.
[06:15] <weidel> and generally, I am very opposed to the pricing on creative products, from Adobe to 3DS and what-not.
[06:15] <weidel> lunch? Oh, you're on another continent. Right. :)
[07:21] <PseudoPlacebo> Be right back.
[07:45] <newz2000> yeah, I'm on another continent... GMT -5.
[09:16] <weidel> ping? :)
[10:46] <lapo> hi